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How to stem the rise of the far right – politicalbetting.com

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  • A3 can be a suicide mission at times. German car drivers for some reason on that road. Madness.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,309
    Heathener said:

    Hogs back? Gibbet Hill, Reigate Hill, Hascombe Hill, The view from the top of Denbies Wine Estate?

    The Hogs Back has to be one of the most dangerous roads I've ever driven in the UK. It's where Mike Hawthorne bought it, I believe.
    Yikes didn’t know that and I was just posting about it when you wrote about it.

    Some people drive like utter loons on the A31/A3. I’ve no idea why?
    Lot of frustrated racing drivers in the commuter belt.

    Off to play in the garden now. Have a nice day.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084

    By the way, I know starmer isn't super exciting to many people, but it is this patient, relentless effort and strategic long term focus that I kind of admire about Starmer. He doesn't go for any one particular short term win, but always has his eye on the final outcome. He plays 8 dimensional chess with his opponents to this end. And he is utterly ruthless in this regard. People who call him flip flop and stuff like that only call him flip flop because they are not operating on the same scale - they haven't yet seen his goal. Underestimate him at your own expense....


    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/keir-starmer-boris-johnson-partygate-b2567067.html

    There was a very good profile in yesterday’s Sunday Times magazine. I’m not sure if there’s an online version but it helped me understand him a bit better. Likeable but also slightly scary I feel. Wasn’t ‘Ruthless Pragmatism’ Frank Underwood’s tagline?
  • Heathener said:

    Best view in Surrey Newlands corner?Leith Hill or Box Hill?

    All really beautiful. Difficult to split them though I do love Newlands Corner. I’ve walked there often. Which is your favourite?

    I also love the ridge line from Farnham to Godalming/Guildford. Not so much the Hog’s Back itself (although from the A31 it’s beautiful) but the pretty footpaths just south of it which are the start of the North Downs Way near Seale. There are some lanes nearby that make it driveable coming out at Puttenham and then you link in with the route @Peter_the_Punter just mentioned between Shalford and Redhill which is so pretty. Great area for cycling and hiking.
    The ridge line you mention is a Gem as well.
  • Heathener said:

    Hogs back? Gibbet Hill, Reigate Hill, Hascombe Hill, The view from the top of Denbies Wine Estate?

    The Hogs Back has to be one of the most dangerous roads I've ever driven in the UK. It's where Mike Hawthorne bought it, I believe.
    Yikes didn’t know that and I was just posting about it when you wrote about it.

    Some people drive like utter loons on the A31/A3. I’ve no idea why?
    Lot of frustrated racing drivers in the commuter belt.

    Off to play in the garden now. Have a nice day.
    A lot of stressed drivers.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,771
    Heathener said:

    Best view in Surrey Newlands corner?Leith Hill or Box Hill?

    All really beautiful. Difficult to split them though I do love Newlands Corner. I’ve walked there often. Which is your favourite?

    I also love the ridge line from Farnham to Godalming/Guildford. Not so much the Hog’s Back itself (although from the A31 it’s beautiful) but the pretty footpaths just south of it which are the start of the North Downs Way near Seale. There are some lanes nearby that make it driveable coming out at Puttenham and then you link in with the route @Peter_the_Punter just mentioned between Shalford and Redhill which is so pretty. Great area for cycling and hiking.
    The Surrey Hills start at the end of my road. We were on the route for the Olympics road race. I practice a few weeks before my cycle trip each year trying to get to the top without getting off. Not easy when you are about 10 kg overweight. The first time I made it someone stopped to see if I was ok. I think I might have looked like I was about to have a heart attack. Real sense of satisfaction. Doesn't take me long to get back home though, although the brakes are smoking.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,456

    By the way, I know starmer isn't super exciting to many people, but it is this patient, relentless effort and strategic long term focus that I kind of admire about Starmer. He doesn't go for any one particular short term win, but always has his eye on the final outcome. He plays 8 dimensional chess with his opponents to this end. And he is utterly ruthless in this regard. People who call him flip flop and stuff like that only call him flip flop because they are not operating on the same scale - they haven't yet seen his goal. Underestimate him at your own expense....


    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/keir-starmer-boris-johnson-partygate-b2567067.html

    People criticise Starmer for being dull and boring.

    I want my politicians to be dull and boring. Their job is to run the country not entertain. There will be plenty of entertainment from the satirists and media looking for any angle to sell their airtime/newscopy. I don't want the Prime Minister to be doing their job for them.

    Yes I am looking at you Boris Johnson.
    I agree, and have said as much in the past. However, there is also a need for leaders to be inspiring; to take us along with them in their plans. And a PM is the country's ultimate leader.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,380
    Heathener said:

    Four a.m. at the moth trap. Warm, slight drizzle in the air. No sign of yesterday's Strawberry Moon behind solid cloud.

    Just me, the moths - and a lone skylark, singing way off above. Up with the lark indeed.

    Should have been a great night for moths. Instead, just two hawkmoths - an elephant and a lime. Six years back, that might have been thirty. Species list in the mid-30's. It should be more than double that, maybe treble. Struggling to reach 100 moths. I've had nights here when it was nearer a thousand.

    Worrying signs.

    Why?
    Because moths are indicator species of environmental harm/good. The diversity of moths is used to monitor environmental change. This is all of a part with the large scale collapse of insect populations over the last few decades.

    Thanks in part to MM I have been doing a great deal of moth trapping as a means of measuring the improvements on my land due to rewilding.
    Indeed. There has been no obvious change in the local environment here. There has been no new regime of spraying insecticides, for example. No obvious increase in predators. There has been an impact on some ash feeders as a result of ash die-back disease (one in six trees in Devon is an ash). The thing we might point to is two wet winters followed by a hot spring (the ground getting baked like concrete, not allowing the underground larva to break through the surface to emerge as moths). It is possible numbers might bounce back. But it does for now look like a concerning crash in numbers. When you think a brood of 10 blue tits requires feeding with 1,000 caterpillars a day, you are going to be seeing a drastic knock on to other wildlife.
    What’s your honest take on the situation in our rivers MM? I have a view as a sometime fisherwoman but I’d be interested to know yours, electioneering aside please?

    Second question, have you seen the extended version of the Yellowstone re-wilding documentary? I’m not sure how scientifically backed it is but it’s fascinating.

    How Wolves Changed Rivers
    https://ethology.eu/how-wolves-change-rivers/
    https://sustainablehuman.org/stories/how-wolves-change-rivers/
    https://youtu.be/aZsteDMUsU4

    p.s. I should perhaps explain that I’m pretty convinced about the links ref. insects, fields, and rivers
    I still return to the addition of the new anti knocking agentsvto replace lead in petrol a few decades ago. The really big declines in insect populations seem to stem from there.

    One reason why I will be glad to see ICEs replaced by electrics.
  • kjh said:

    Heathener said:

    Best view in Surrey Newlands corner?Leith Hill or Box Hill?

    All really beautiful. Difficult to split them though I do love Newlands Corner. I’ve walked there often. Which is your favourite?

    I also love the ridge line from Farnham to Godalming/Guildford. Not so much the Hog’s Back itself (although from the A31 it’s beautiful) but the pretty footpaths just south of it which are the start of the North Downs Way near Seale. There are some lanes nearby that make it driveable coming out at Puttenham and then you link in with the route @Peter_the_Punter just mentioned between Shalford and Redhill which is so pretty. Great area for cycling and hiking.
    The Surrey Hills start at the end of my road. We were on the route for the Olympics road race. I practice a few weeks before my cycle trip each year trying to get to the top without getting off. Not easy when you are about 10 kg overweight. The first time I made it someone stopped to see if I was ok. I think I might have looked like I was about to have a heart attack. Real sense of satisfaction. Doesn't take me long to get back home though, although the brakes are smoking.
    The hills around that area are hard work!

  • @Malmesbury

    Splendid article. Personally I don't think the necessary reform that you advocate is feasible, there are too many entrenched vested interest, other than being borne out of Russia 1991 type financial collapse meaning there is no money to pay the bureacrats.

    Unfortunately a lot of necessary things also stop happening then too.

    I think Niall Fergusson might be right that we are in a new cold war, but this time, we are the Soviets. The lunatic response to Covid and its financia, mental health and moral (work ethic) consequences (a triumph of Process over Judgement if ever there was one) has certainly hasntened the day.

    https://www1.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2024/02/04/the-state-of-process-the-process-state/
  • MisterBedfordshireMisterBedfordshire Posts: 2,252
    edited June 24
    Deleted
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 10,953
    Nigelb said:

    The UN has been losing its way for a while.
    This is a cowardly capitulation.

    The misogynist fucks the Taliban have demanded that a UN conference on Afghanistan exclude women. And the UN agreed.

    "It is a betrayal not just of Afghan women but all women around the world.”

    https://x.com/ImtiazMadmood/status/1804842500009435548

    The UN, contrary to MAGA fantasies, has pretty limited power. Often, to get something done, they need to negotiate with unpleasant governments. They can’t force the Taliban to accept anything. I don’t know the details here, but this looks like realpolitik.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 22,990
    Good morning.

    What happened to Scotland in the footy?

    The BBC report reads like the wailing of the Sabine Women.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/c25559n0re2o
  • Nigelb said:

    The UN has been losing its way for a while.
    This is a cowardly capitulation.

    The misogynist fucks the Taliban have demanded that a UN conference on Afghanistan exclude women. And the UN agreed.

    "It is a betrayal not just of Afghan women but all women around the world.”

    https://x.com/ImtiazMadmood/status/1804842500009435548

    The UN, contrary to MAGA fantasies, has pretty limited power. Often, to get something done, they need to negotiate with unpleasant governments. They can’t force the Taliban to accept anything. I don’t know the details here, but this looks like realpolitik.
    It is also hideously corrupt.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 10,953
    Sandpit said:

    Attacks on police officers, two churches and a synagogue in Russia's North Caucasus republic of Dagestan have left many people dead. Gunmen targeted the cities of Derbent and Makhachkala on the Orthodox festival of Pentecost.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/crgggwg158do

    Early signs of disaffection among the Russian population?
    The people doing the attacks don’t think of themselves as Russian.
  • maxhmaxh Posts: 1,221

    Also what is "a system of stakeholder capitalism* backed by a second chamber of citizens assemblies to replace the House of Lords" and how does it stop parents letting their kids use a mobile phone

    @edmundintokyo I don't think we share a time zone but...

    To deal with both of your questions: I am defining neo-liberalism as the belief that people are primarily consumers within a market. Thus regulation, state safety nets etc are illegitimate interference in the market.

    Hence eg if kids are addicted to mobile phones, that is simply the market in attention doing it's thing, and we should not challenge it.

    By contrast, citizen involvement in democracy allows people to speak truth to this nonsense, whether having stakeholders on boards of companies who might choose to argue against eg marketing phones at kids, or having citizens assemblies where those who see their communities transformed by immigration can voice the dislocation that this causes.
    viewcode said:

    maxh said:

    On topic if you're going to talk about "neo-liberalism" can you define it first because people mean wildly different things by it.

    Fair challenge, I was trying not to write an essay. I did link to the definition I am using (though that requires you to listen to a podcast, sorry, and it's from Monbiot who I know triggers some people: https://neweconomics.org/2024/06/how-do-we-tell-a-new-story-about-neoliberalism)

    @maxh, hi! Good article. Have you looked at
    technofeudalism/neofeudalism?
    Thanks @viewcode. I think I have heard you mention it but no more than that. What would you recommend I listen to/read?


  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,341

    By the way, I know starmer isn't super exciting to many people, but it is this patient, relentless effort and strategic long term focus that I kind of admire about Starmer. He doesn't go for any one particular short term win, but always has his eye on the final outcome. He plays 8 dimensional chess with his opponents to this end. And he is utterly ruthless in this regard. People who call him flip flop and stuff like that only call him flip flop because they are not operating on the same scale - they haven't yet seen his goal. Underestimate him at your own expense....


    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/keir-starmer-boris-johnson-partygate-b2567067.html

    People criticise Starmer for being dull and boring.

    I want my politicians to be dull and boring. Their job is to run the country not entertain. There will be plenty of entertainment from the satirists and media looking for any angle to sell their airtime/newscopy. I don't want the Prime Minister to be doing their job for them.

    Yes I am looking at you Boris Johnson.
    It is a severe error to correlate dullness with efficiency/effectiveness. Spreadsheet Phil. Theresa May. Rishi Sunak. All very dull. All disastrously ineffective. Sometimes people who are dull are just dull.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084

    Heathener said:

    When I’m up in Surrey, even on the heath (from which my handles derives), the sound most heard is not the woodpecker, nor owl, nor the cuckoo - all of which are regulars.

    No. It’s leaf-blowers.

    Usually petrol driven and often incessant from 8am until 5pm most days of the year. Noise polluting and environmentally impactful on several levels from the 2-stroke petrol fumes to the removal of vital mulch.

    I’m not quite sure what the paranoia is amongst Surrey householders about the evil of the leaf. It’s a strange obsession in this most arboreal county of England.

    Leaf blowers are a menace and need strictly regulating.

    The noise and air pollution is horrendous for something that's essentially pointless.
    We are of one mind on this
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,836

    Heathener said:

    Hogs back? Gibbet Hill, Reigate Hill, Hascombe Hill, The view from the top of Denbies Wine Estate?

    The Hogs Back has to be one of the most dangerous roads I've ever driven in the UK. It's where Mike Hawthorne bought it, I believe.
    Yikes didn’t know that and I was just posting about it when you wrote about it.

    Some people drive like utter loons on the A31/A3. I’ve no idea why?
    Lot of frustrated racing drivers in the commuter belt.

    Off to play in the garden now. Have a nice day.
    A lot of stressed drivers.
    It's a dual carriageway trying to do the job of a three-lane motorway. I'd guess at some point it will be widened to three lanes, which will be an extremely disruptive project.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,272
    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    So why is Marine Le Pen doing a Nazi salute in the picture?

    This time next week I shall be in France watching horrified frenchies bewailing the depths to which their country is plunging,

    Ive brought a crate of Nyetimber out to enjoy it.
    Come and join me

    Today I woke up in a boat in St Malo. Went to the local Carrefour and bought wine. Drove across Brittany to beautiful beautiful Vannes. Met the guide. Had a lovely walk. Had a dozen oysters (Thankyou French taxpayers) and some muscadet. Then drove to port badon and got a tiny boat to the sacred Neolithic island of Gavrinis and its neighbouring islands with its half drowned Stonehenge and spent the time chatting (flirting?) with a French New Zealand lady and then got the boat back and then I drove over an ISTHMUS to Quiberon where I’ve just had excellent local langoustines with the home made mayonnaise in the best restaurant in town and now I sit in my room staring at the sea (great view out to the islands) and I drink the wine I bought in Carrefour and even now, after 35 years of doing this, I cannot believe this is MY JOB and I am paid to do it

    Ok second job. But still
    Vanessa is twinned with Fareham
    Feltz?
    certainly big enough
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,954
    @pkelso

    The racing tips have been scrapped by R4 Today program. Presumably because gambling is now part of the politics coverage 🐎 🗳️
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,903
    I’m sure this is just a temporary measure for the very short period that Labour will allow the HoL to continue.

    https://x.com/pippacrerar/status/1804929878099218615?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,380

    Heathener said:

    When I’m up in Surrey, even on the heath (from which my handles derives), the sound most heard is not the woodpecker, nor owl, nor the cuckoo - all of which are regulars.

    No. It’s leaf-blowers.

    Usually petrol driven and often incessant from 8am until 5pm most days of the year. Noise polluting and environmentally impactful on several levels from the 2-stroke petrol fumes to the removal of vital mulch.

    I’m not quite sure what the paranoia is amongst Surrey householders about the evil of the leaf. It’s a strange obsession in this most arboreal county of England.

    Leaf blowers are a menace and need strictly regulating.

    The noise and air pollution is horrendous for something that's essentially pointless.
    And again fallen leaves are incredibly important for providing shelter and food for insects.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 22,990
    edited June 24
    Heathener said:

    Heathener said:

    When I’m up in Surrey, even on the heath (from which my handles derives), the sound most heard is not the woodpecker, nor owl, nor the cuckoo - all of which are regulars.

    No. It’s leaf-blowers.

    Usually petrol driven and often incessant from 8am until 5pm most days of the year. Noise polluting and environmentally impactful on several levels from the 2-stroke petrol fumes to the removal of vital mulch.

    I’m not quite sure what the paranoia is amongst Surrey householders about the evil of the leaf. It’s a strange obsession in this most arboreal county of England.

    Leaf blowers are a menace and need strictly regulating.

    The noise and air pollution is horrendous for something that's essentially pointless.
    We are of one mind on this
    Interesting.

    That would come under nuisance, surely, which is already regulated though with some lack of effectiveness, and the Council could do it themselves via a byelaw or a PSPO - though that may run into problems with "public space" if it is all retired civil servant "this Englishman's home is his Castle" types.

    They already have a borough wide PSPO in place for some things, which is a bit of a smorgasboard.
    https://www.surreyheath.gov.uk/sites/default/files/2023-10/Public Space Protection Order Surrey Heath 2023.pdf

    They probably need more budget to pay for the regulators.

    (My own leafblower also mulches and is an electric rechargeable. It gets through the battery recharge cycles though.)
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,903
    IanB2 said:

    Heathener said:

    Hogs back? Gibbet Hill, Reigate Hill, Hascombe Hill, The view from the top of Denbies Wine Estate?

    The Hogs Back has to be one of the most dangerous roads I've ever driven in the UK. It's where Mike Hawthorne bought it, I believe.
    Yikes didn’t know that and I was just posting about it when you wrote about it.

    Some people drive like utter loons on the A31/A3. I’ve no idea why?
    Lot of frustrated racing drivers in the commuter belt.

    Off to play in the garden now. Have a nice day.
    A lot of stressed drivers.
    It's a dual carriageway trying to do the job of a three-lane motorway. I'd guess at some point it will be widened to three lanes, which will be an extremely disruptive project.
    The M8 nods sympathetically.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,456
    edited June 24

    Nigelb said:

    The UN has been losing its way for a while.
    This is a cowardly capitulation.

    The misogynist fucks the Taliban have demanded that a UN conference on Afghanistan exclude women. And the UN agreed.

    "It is a betrayal not just of Afghan women but all women around the world.”

    https://x.com/ImtiazMadmood/status/1804842500009435548

    The UN, contrary to MAGA fantasies, has pretty limited power. Often, to get something done, they need to negotiate with unpleasant governments. They can’t force the Taliban to accept anything. I don’t know the details here, but this looks like realpolitik.
    Yes, but you also have to have core values. This shows that the rights of women are not core values for the UN.

    edit: and this approach will lead to a rush to the bottom for rights: extremists know the UN will always capitulate.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,550

    Heathener said:

    When I’m up in Surrey, even on the heath (from which my handles derives), the sound most heard is not the woodpecker, nor owl, nor the cuckoo - all of which are regulars.

    No. It’s leaf-blowers.

    Usually petrol driven and often incessant from 8am until 5pm most days of the year. Noise polluting and environmentally impactful on several levels from the 2-stroke petrol fumes to the removal of vital mulch.

    I’m not quite sure what the paranoia is amongst Surrey householders about the evil of the leaf. It’s a strange obsession in this most arboreal county of England.

    Leaf blowers are a menace and need strictly regulating.

    The noise and air pollution is horrendous for something that's essentially pointless.
    I agree. Nothing wrong with a rake and a brush. It's a good workout.

    But isn't this an example of over-regulation? The instinct to ban something that we dislike is how we wind up with red tape and officiousness.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,715
    edited June 24

    Heathener said:

    When I’m up in Surrey, even on the heath (from which my handles derives), the sound most heard is not the woodpecker, nor owl, nor the cuckoo - all of which are regulars.

    No. It’s leaf-blowers.

    Usually petrol driven and often incessant from 8am until 5pm most days of the year. Noise polluting and environmentally impactful on several levels from the 2-stroke petrol fumes to the removal of vital mulch.

    I’m not quite sure what the paranoia is amongst Surrey householders about the evil of the leaf. It’s a strange obsession in this most arboreal county of England.

    Leaf blowers are a menace and need strictly regulating.

    The noise and air pollution is horrendous for something that's essentially pointless.
    And again fallen leaves are incredibly important for providing shelter and food for insects.
    If one is so anal as to want to have a tidy lawn in the first place, minibeasts don't form part of the Weltaschauung, sadly.

    (Mrs C's garden is so full of flowers all season long for the bumblebees and hoverflies there isn't *any* lawn, overgrown or otherwise.)
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,272
    Eabhal said:

    Four a.m. at the moth trap. Warm, slight drizzle in the air. No sign of yesterday's Strawberry Moon behind solid cloud.

    Just me, the moths - and a lone skylark, singing way off above. Up with the lark indeed.

    Should have been a great night for moths. Instead, just two hawkmoths - an elephant and a lime. Six years back, that might have been thirty. Species list in the mid-30's. It should be more than double that, maybe treble. Struggling to reach 100 moths. I've had nights here when it was nearer a thousand.

    Worrying signs.

    Why?
    Because moths are indicator species of environmental harm/good. The diversity of moths is used to monitor environmental change. This is all of a part with the large scale collapse of insect populations over the last few decades.

    Thanks in part to MM I have been doing a great deal of moth trapping as a means of measuring the improvements on my land due to rewilding.
    Indeed. There has been no obvious change in the local environment here. There has been no new regime of spraying insecticides, for example. No obvious increase in predators. There has been an impact on some ash feeders as a result of ash die-back disease (one in six trees in Devon is an ash). The thing we might point to is two wet winters followed by a hot spring (the ground getting baked like concrete, not allowing the underground larva to break through the surface to emerge as moths). It is possible numbers might bounce back. But it does for now look like a concerning crash in numbers. When you think a brood of 10 blue tits requires feeding with 1,000 caterpillars a day, you are going to be seeing a drastic knock on to other wildlife.
    I can drive to a hill in the Highlands in August and not need to wash the windscreen on the way. That's as strong a signal as any.
    Hardly ever need to scrub bugs off the car nowadays, years ago it was hard graft with front of car splattered with them.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,272

    By the way, I know starmer isn't super exciting to many people, but it is this patient, relentless effort and strategic long term focus that I kind of admire about Starmer. He doesn't go for any one particular short term win, but always has his eye on the final outcome. He plays 8 dimensional chess with his opponents to this end. And he is utterly ruthless in this regard. People who call him flip flop and stuff like that only call him flip flop because they are not operating on the same scale - they haven't yet seen his goal. Underestimate him at your own expense....


    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/keir-starmer-boris-johnson-partygate-b2567067.html

    Either you are deranged or full of the singing ginger, WTF is that load of bollox.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,264

    Heathener said:

    When I’m up in Surrey, even on the heath (from which my handles derives), the sound most heard is not the woodpecker, nor owl, nor the cuckoo - all of which are regulars.

    No. It’s leaf-blowers.

    Usually petrol driven and often incessant from 8am until 5pm most days of the year. Noise polluting and environmentally impactful on several levels from the 2-stroke petrol fumes to the removal of vital mulch.

    I’m not quite sure what the paranoia is amongst Surrey householders about the evil of the leaf. It’s a strange obsession in this most arboreal county of England.

    Leaf blowers are a menace and need strictly regulating.

    The noise and air pollution is horrendous for something that's essentially pointless.
    And again fallen leaves are incredibly important for providing shelter and food for insects.
    Just use a rake. Once every fortnight.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,715
    Foxy said:

    Heathener said:

    When I’m up in Surrey, even on the heath (from which my handles derives), the sound most heard is not the woodpecker, nor owl, nor the cuckoo - all of which are regulars.

    No. It’s leaf-blowers.

    Usually petrol driven and often incessant from 8am until 5pm most days of the year. Noise polluting and environmentally impactful on several levels from the 2-stroke petrol fumes to the removal of vital mulch.

    I’m not quite sure what the paranoia is amongst Surrey householders about the evil of the leaf. It’s a strange obsession in this most arboreal county of England.

    Leaf blowers are a menace and need strictly regulating.

    The noise and air pollution is horrendous for something that's essentially pointless.
    I agree. Nothing wrong with a rake and a brush. It's a good workout.

    But isn't this an example of over-regulation? The instinct to ban something that we dislike is how we wind up with red tape and officiousness.
    *stunned by conservatives demanding more regulation in people's private life*

    Come back EU vacuum cleaners, all is forgiven.
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,064

    By the way, I know starmer isn't super exciting to many people, but it is this patient, relentless effort and strategic long term focus that I kind of admire about Starmer. He doesn't go for any one particular short term win, but always has his eye on the final outcome. He plays 8 dimensional chess with his opponents to this end. And he is utterly ruthless in this regard. People who call him flip flop and stuff like that only call him flip flop because they are not operating on the same scale - they haven't yet seen his goal. Underestimate him at your own expense....


    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/keir-starmer-boris-johnson-partygate-b2567067.html

    People criticise Starmer for being dull and boring.

    I want my politicians to be dull and boring. Their job is to run the country not entertain. There will be plenty of entertainment from the satirists and media looking for any angle to sell their airtime/newscopy. I don't want the Prime Minister to be doing their job for them.

    Yes I am looking at you Boris Johnson.
    It is a severe error to correlate dullness with efficiency/effectiveness. Spreadsheet Phil. Theresa May. Rishi Sunak. All very dull. All disastrously ineffective. Sometimes people who are dull are just dull.
    True, but the track record of starmer as LOTO would not suggest "disastrously ineffective".
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,503
    edited June 24

    IanB2 said:

    Heathener said:

    Hogs back? Gibbet Hill, Reigate Hill, Hascombe Hill, The view from the top of Denbies Wine Estate?

    The Hogs Back has to be one of the most dangerous roads I've ever driven in the UK. It's where Mike Hawthorne bought it, I believe.
    Yikes didn’t know that and I was just posting about it when you wrote about it.

    Some people drive like utter loons on the A31/A3. I’ve no idea why?
    Lot of frustrated racing drivers in the commuter belt.

    Off to play in the garden now. Have a nice day.
    A lot of stressed drivers.
    It's a dual carriageway trying to do the job of a three-lane motorway. I'd guess at some point it will be widened to three lanes, which will be an extremely disruptive project.
    The M8 nods sympathetically.
    I used to drive around 50,000 miles a year all around the UK, as a technician for IT equipment.

    There were only two roads that ever got me totally confused, even with an early primitive sat-nav - one was the viaduct section of the M8 through Glasgow, the other was the Leeds “Loop”.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,450
    Heathener said:

    Heathener said:

    When I’m up in Surrey, even on the heath (from which my handles derives), the sound most heard is not the woodpecker, nor owl, nor the cuckoo - all of which are regulars.

    No. It’s leaf-blowers.

    Usually petrol driven and often incessant from 8am until 5pm most days of the year. Noise polluting and environmentally impactful on several levels from the 2-stroke petrol fumes to the removal of vital mulch.

    I’m not quite sure what the paranoia is amongst Surrey householders about the evil of the leaf. It’s a strange obsession in this most arboreal county of England.

    Leaf blowers are a menace and need strictly regulating.

    The noise and air pollution is horrendous for something that's essentially pointless.
    We are of one mind on this
    They should ban leaf blowers and make anyone who feels they need Ozempic spend two weeks sweeping and shovelling up nuisance leaves before they are given their prescription. They might then discover they lose weight with a bit of exercise and don’t need to take a jab for it.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,905

    Heathener said:

    When I’m up in Surrey, even on the heath (from which my handles derives), the sound most heard is not the woodpecker, nor owl, nor the cuckoo - all of which are regulars.

    No. It’s leaf-blowers.

    Usually petrol driven and often incessant from 8am until 5pm most days of the year. Noise polluting and environmentally impactful on several levels from the 2-stroke petrol fumes to the removal of vital mulch.

    I’m not quite sure what the paranoia is amongst Surrey householders about the evil of the leaf. It’s a strange obsession in this most arboreal county of England.

    Leaf blowers are a menace and need strictly regulating.

    The noise and air pollution is horrendous for something that's essentially pointless.
    I'm not a huge enthusiast for bans, but I'd make an exception for petrol leaf blowers.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,341
    Foxy said:

    Heathener said:

    When I’m up in Surrey, even on the heath (from which my handles derives), the sound most heard is not the woodpecker, nor owl, nor the cuckoo - all of which are regulars.

    No. It’s leaf-blowers.

    Usually petrol driven and often incessant from 8am until 5pm most days of the year. Noise polluting and environmentally impactful on several levels from the 2-stroke petrol fumes to the removal of vital mulch.

    I’m not quite sure what the paranoia is amongst Surrey householders about the evil of the leaf. It’s a strange obsession in this most arboreal county of England.

    Leaf blowers are a menace and need strictly regulating.

    The noise and air pollution is horrendous for something that's essentially pointless.
    I agree. Nothing wrong with a rake and a brush. It's a good workout.

    But isn't this an example of over-regulation? The instinct to ban something that we dislike is how we wind up with red tape and officiousness.
    Well said. This conversation is giving me a sympathy toward leaf blowers and those who use them that I never knew I had.
  • MisterBedfordshireMisterBedfordshire Posts: 2,252
    edited June 24
    IanB2 said:

    Heathener said:

    Hogs back? Gibbet Hill, Reigate Hill, Hascombe Hill, The view from the top of Denbies Wine Estate?

    The Hogs Back has to be one of the most dangerous roads I've ever driven in the UK. It's where Mike Hawthorne bought it, I believe.
    Yikes didn’t know that and I was just posting about it when you wrote about it.

    Some people drive like utter loons on the A31/A3. I’ve no idea why?
    Lot of frustrated racing drivers in the commuter belt.

    Off to play in the garden now. Have a nice day.
    A lot of stressed drivers.
    It's a dual carriageway trying to do the job of a three-lane motorway. I'd guess at some point it will be widened to three lanes, which will be an extremely disruptive project.
    Had the M31 been built (other than the bit "Temporarily" named A429(M)) the problem would have gone away (along with much of the Congestion between Wisley (A3) and the M4 along the M25.

    That is why the A429(M)/M4 junction is so grand.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,272
    Heathener said:

    Anyway I’m tootling back to the South-west for the week to do some writing. The idea of two bases seemed to confound someone on here the other day but I believe it’s not uncommon.

    Most people struggle constantly just to keep one, it is very uncommon but just what you expect from the toffs on PB.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,752
    Foxy said:

    Heathener said:

    When I’m up in Surrey, even on the heath (from which my handles derives), the sound most heard is not the woodpecker, nor owl, nor the cuckoo - all of which are regulars.

    No. It’s leaf-blowers.

    Usually petrol driven and often incessant from 8am until 5pm most days of the year. Noise polluting and environmentally impactful on several levels from the 2-stroke petrol fumes to the removal of vital mulch.

    I’m not quite sure what the paranoia is amongst Surrey householders about the evil of the leaf. It’s a strange obsession in this most arboreal county of England.

    Leaf blowers are a menace and need strictly regulating.

    The noise and air pollution is horrendous for something that's essentially pointless.
    I agree. Nothing wrong with a rake and a brush. It's a good workout.

    But isn't this an example of over-regulation? The instinct to ban something that we dislike is how we wind up with red tape and officiousness.
    Yes, the link between some people don't like X and X should be banned is far too easily made by our current politicians of all stripes. We need to find ways of making our society more tolerant of difference.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,272

    By the way, I know starmer isn't super exciting to many people, but it is this patient, relentless effort and strategic long term focus that I kind of admire about Starmer. He doesn't go for any one particular short term win, but always has his eye on the final outcome. He plays 8 dimensional chess with his opponents to this end. And he is utterly ruthless in this regard. People who call him flip flop and stuff like that only call him flip flop because they are not operating on the same scale - they haven't yet seen his goal. Underestimate him at your own expense....


    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/keir-starmer-boris-johnson-partygate-b2567067.html

    People criticise Starmer for being dull and boring.

    I want my politicians to be dull and boring. Their job is to run the country not entertain. There will be plenty of entertainment from the satirists and media looking for any angle to sell their airtime/newscopy. I don't want the Prime Minister to be doing their job for them.

    Yes I am looking at you Boris Johnson.
    Does help though if they are not useless flip flopping bores. I doubt he could run a bath as we will find out.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,903
    Sandpit said:

    IanB2 said:

    Heathener said:

    Hogs back? Gibbet Hill, Reigate Hill, Hascombe Hill, The view from the top of Denbies Wine Estate?

    The Hogs Back has to be one of the most dangerous roads I've ever driven in the UK. It's where Mike Hawthorne bought it, I believe.
    Yikes didn’t know that and I was just posting about it when you wrote about it.

    Some people drive like utter loons on the A31/A3. I’ve no idea why?
    Lot of frustrated racing drivers in the commuter belt.

    Off to play in the garden now. Have a nice day.
    A lot of stressed drivers.
    It's a dual carriageway trying to do the job of a three-lane motorway. I'd guess at some point it will be widened to three lanes, which will be an extremely disruptive project.
    The M8 nods sympathetically.
    I used to drive around 50,000 miles a year all around the UK, as a technician for IT equipment.

    There were only two roads that ever got me totally confused, even with an early primitive sat-nav - one was the viaduct section of the M8 through Glasgow, the other was the Leeds “Loop”.
    The last couple of years would blow your mind, two of the the exits on that section have been ‘temporarily’ closed. To be avoided at all costs at rush hours.
  • Heathener said:

    When I’m up in Surrey, even on the heath (from which my handles derives), the sound most heard is not the woodpecker, nor owl, nor the cuckoo - all of which are regulars.

    No. It’s leaf-blowers.

    Usually petrol driven and often incessant from 8am until 5pm most days of the year. Noise polluting and environmentally impactful on several levels from the 2-stroke petrol fumes to the removal of vital mulch.

    I’m not quite sure what the paranoia is amongst Surrey householders about the evil of the leaf. It’s a strange obsession in this most arboreal county of England.

    Leaf blowers are a menace and need strictly regulating.

    The noise and air pollution is horrendous for something that's essentially pointless.
    And again fallen leaves are incredibly important for providing shelter and food for insects.
    Just use a rake. Once every fortnight.
    Unless you are disabled....

    Irritating as they are kneejerk banning of more and more things and ever more ineffective policing as too many things to police is what got us in this mess.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,854
    IanB2 said:

    viewcode said:

    "Is Starmergeddon Coming for the Tories?"
    https://www.iaindale.com/articles/is-starmergeddon-coming-for-the-tories

    AI summary
    The text discusses the current state of the Conservative Party in the midst of the election campaign and the potential aftermath of a significant defeat. It highlights that many on the right have given up hope of denting Labour's likely majority. The Conservative parliamentary party's size and who remains to rescue the party from ruins will be crucial. CCHQ (Conservative Campaign Headquarters) is reportedly losing hope, and some candidates have been ordered to halt their campaigns and assist cabinet ministers with larger majorities. The text suggests that a new leader will need to revitalize the party's policies, be popular with the public, and have good media skills. Nigel Farage is unlikely to lead the Conservative Party, despite some shared views, as he has made a career out of trying to destroy the party. The text acknowledges that the Conservative Party has bounced back from defeats in the past but predicts a terrible defeat in this election. The blame game has already begun, but it is not solely Rishi Sunak's fault for the election date or Isaac Levido's for campaign tactics. If the party is reduced to a small number of seats, a leadership contest with numerous candidates would not be necessary. Some candidates may struggle to retain their seats, while others are considered safe. Rushing a leadership contest may not be wise, and appointing a temporary leader could be an option. The text advises the Conservative Party to take their time and not rush the process.

    https://ahrefs.com/writing-tools/summarizer

    No one will want to hear from the Tory Party for a very long time.

    https://IanB2.com/writing-tools/supersummariser
    Normally better to wait for the death certificate before burial but in this instance the brain hasn't shown any sign of life for months if not longer.

    When the history of this election is written I suspect it'll show that Starmer has been much underestimated.....bad voice ....dress sense ...dull.....he's not Tony Blair and he has annoyed the hell out of a lot of labour supporters. He knew we had nowhere else to go and he took us right to the edge.

    He even used a backdrop with THREE UNION JACKS! He seemed to have no red lines. No depth he wouldn't plunge. He looked like he really was the Tory Boy of our worst nightmares. But actually the real red line was never crossed........

    He never agreed to the Rwanda scheme and all that it implied and in my opinion that was his masterstroke. That would without doubt have taken the soul out of the Party as it has for those few Conservatives who still have one.

    I'm optimistic for Sir Keir. I think he's shown himself to be very astute.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 22,990
    edited June 24
    Heathener said:

    Hogs back? Gibbet Hill, Reigate Hill, Hascombe Hill, The view from the top of Denbies Wine Estate?

    The Hogs Back has to be one of the most dangerous roads I've ever driven in the UK. It's where Mike Hawthorne bought it, I believe.
    Yikes didn’t know that and I was just posting about it when you wrote about it.

    Some people drive like utter loons on the A31/A3. I’ve no idea why?
    The blunt answer is probably because the young and old wideboys of Surrey and counties South are really, really stupid.

    On Mike Hawthorn, afaics he was basically racing a Mercedes Gull Wing in his Jaguar at speeds of 80mph+ in wet conditions, when he drove his vehicle into a "Keep Left" dividing bollard. In 1955.

    Darwin Award for Mike Hawthorn.

    I haven't been through the Hog's Back for some time - my uncle was in the Manor Mead nursing home for several years.

    Does it have average speed cameras yet? They are a fairly crude sticky plaster compared to redesigning the road for system safety, but they do work if set appropriately. On our bypass they reduced vulnerable road user deaths from >1 per annum to very low numbers.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,272

    IanB2 said:

    Heathener said:

    Hogs back? Gibbet Hill, Reigate Hill, Hascombe Hill, The view from the top of Denbies Wine Estate?

    The Hogs Back has to be one of the most dangerous roads I've ever driven in the UK. It's where Mike Hawthorne bought it, I believe.
    Yikes didn’t know that and I was just posting about it when you wrote about it.

    Some people drive like utter loons on the A31/A3. I’ve no idea why?
    Lot of frustrated racing drivers in the commuter belt.

    Off to play in the garden now. Have a nice day.
    A lot of stressed drivers.
    It's a dual carriageway trying to do the job of a three-lane motorway. I'd guess at some point it will be widened to three lanes, which will be an extremely disruptive project.
    The M8 nods sympathetically.
    They whine, biut can you imagine if all they had was a dual carriageway as their only Motorway in the country.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,752

    I’m sure this is just a temporary measure for the very short period that Labour will allow the HoL to continue.

    https://x.com/pippacrerar/status/1804929878099218615?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q

    Its been that way for all parties since about 1920. I know we don't like constitutional change all that much in this country but 100 years of impasse seems a tad excessive, even for us.
  • Heathener said:

    When I’m up in Surrey, even on the heath (from which my handles derives), the sound most heard is not the woodpecker, nor owl, nor the cuckoo - all of which are regulars.

    No. It’s leaf-blowers.

    Usually petrol driven and often incessant from 8am until 5pm most days of the year. Noise polluting and environmentally impactful on several levels from the 2-stroke petrol fumes to the removal of vital mulch.

    I’m not quite sure what the paranoia is amongst Surrey householders about the evil of the leaf. It’s a strange obsession in this most arboreal county of England.

    Leaf blowers are a menace and need strictly regulating.

    The noise and air pollution is horrendous for something that's essentially pointless.
    And again fallen leaves are incredibly important for providing shelter and food for insects.
    Just use a rake. Once every fortnight.
    You sound like a bored Restoration era noblewoman.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,788
    Foxy said:

    Heathener said:

    When I’m up in Surrey, even on the heath (from which my handles derives), the sound most heard is not the woodpecker, nor owl, nor the cuckoo - all of which are regulars.

    No. It’s leaf-blowers.

    Usually petrol driven and often incessant from 8am until 5pm most days of the year. Noise polluting and environmentally impactful on several levels from the 2-stroke petrol fumes to the removal of vital mulch.

    I’m not quite sure what the paranoia is amongst Surrey householders about the evil of the leaf. It’s a strange obsession in this most arboreal county of England.

    Leaf blowers are a menace and need strictly regulating.

    The noise and air pollution is horrendous for something that's essentially pointless.
    I agree. Nothing wrong with a rake and a brush. It's a good workout.

    But isn't this an example of over-regulation? The instinct to ban something that we dislike is how we wind up with red tape and officiousness.
    Are you suggesting such over regulation should be banned?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,905
    Farage is, at best, an incoherent fool.
    Either that, or deliberately malign.

    Farage appeared to compare Sandy Hook parents to liberals trying to curb free speech

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/jun/24/nigel-farage-parent-sandy-hook-victims-liberals-free-speech
    The Reform UK leader was interviewed by Alex Jones on his Infowars platform in 2018, just after the parents began legal action against the radio show host for claiming that the massacre was faked. Farage did not dispute Jones’s assertion that he was being targeted by “frauds”.

    Instead, Farage said Jones’s experiences seemed to tie into a wider attempt to quash free speech, saying “the left and the state are fighting back with all their might” after Brexit and the election of Donald Trump.

    A spokesperson for Farage said the politician was “not even sure he was even aware of Sandy Hook at the time” of the interview, in April 2018.

    In December 2012, 26 people were killed by 20-year-old Adam Lanza at Sandy Hook elementary school in Newtown, Connecticut – one of the worst school shootings in US history.

    In more recent interviews, Farage praised the misogynist influencer Andrew Tate for being an “important voice” for the “emasculated”. It has also emerged that last year Farage said he would enjoy interviewing the conspiracist David Icke to find out more about how he came up with his views.

    And this weekend Farage doubled down on his claim that the west had provoked the Russian invasion of Ukraine, insisting he was not an “apologist or supporter of Putin”. The office of the Ukrainian president, Volodymyr Zelenskiy, was among those to condemn the Reform leader, saying he had been “infected with the virus of Putinism”.

    Farage has previously been criticised for appearing on Jones’s shows at least six times, and Jewish groups have expressed concern after Farage used these appearances to discuss conspiracy theories, some of which have been linked to antisemitism...

    ..Elsewhere in the same interview, Farage argued that leftwingers “hate Christianity” and wanted to abolish the nation state, saying: “They want to replace it with the globalist project, and the European Union is the prototype for the new world order.”..

  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,380
    Just waiting to leave Aberdeen on the Cross Country train to Penzance. Only going as far as York but it is fun listening to all the stops along the way.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,836
    malcolmg said:

    Eabhal said:

    Four a.m. at the moth trap. Warm, slight drizzle in the air. No sign of yesterday's Strawberry Moon behind solid cloud.

    Just me, the moths - and a lone skylark, singing way off above. Up with the lark indeed.

    Should have been a great night for moths. Instead, just two hawkmoths - an elephant and a lime. Six years back, that might have been thirty. Species list in the mid-30's. It should be more than double that, maybe treble. Struggling to reach 100 moths. I've had nights here when it was nearer a thousand.

    Worrying signs.

    Why?
    Because moths are indicator species of environmental harm/good. The diversity of moths is used to monitor environmental change. This is all of a part with the large scale collapse of insect populations over the last few decades.

    Thanks in part to MM I have been doing a great deal of moth trapping as a means of measuring the improvements on my land due to rewilding.
    Indeed. There has been no obvious change in the local environment here. There has been no new regime of spraying insecticides, for example. No obvious increase in predators. There has been an impact on some ash feeders as a result of ash die-back disease (one in six trees in Devon is an ash). The thing we might point to is two wet winters followed by a hot spring (the ground getting baked like concrete, not allowing the underground larva to break through the surface to emerge as moths). It is possible numbers might bounce back. But it does for now look like a concerning crash in numbers. When you think a brood of 10 blue tits requires feeding with 1,000 caterpillars a day, you are going to be seeing a drastic knock on to other wildlife.
    I can drive to a hill in the Highlands in August and not need to wash the windscreen on the way. That's as strong a signal as any.
    Hardly ever need to scrub bugs off the car nowadays, years ago it was hard graft with front of car splattered with them.
    It's not dissimilar in Europe; the days when you could return from a driving holiday with a good collection of Mediterranean insects seem to be over.
  • MonksfieldMonksfield Posts: 2,803

    The Cat and Fiddle run In Cheshire has a few loons on it as well.

    Hartside is another - on the Penrith to Alston Road.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,272

    Heathener said:

    When I’m up in Surrey, even on the heath (from which my handles derives), the sound most heard is not the woodpecker, nor owl, nor the cuckoo - all of which are regulars.

    No. It’s leaf-blowers.

    Usually petrol driven and often incessant from 8am until 5pm most days of the year. Noise polluting and environmentally impactful on several levels from the 2-stroke petrol fumes to the removal of vital mulch.

    I’m not quite sure what the paranoia is amongst Surrey householders about the evil of the leaf. It’s a strange obsession in this most arboreal county of England.

    Leaf blowers are a menace and need strictly regulating.

    The noise and air pollution is horrendous for something that's essentially pointless.
    And again fallen leaves are incredibly important for providing shelter and food for insects.
    Just use a rake. Once every fortnight.
    Unless you are disabled....

    Irritating as they are kneejerk banning of more and more things and ever more ineffective policing as too many things to police is what got us in this mess.
    Think of the poor old pensioners as well , typical ageist able bodied arseholes on here, all me me me.
  • Big_IanBig_Ian Posts: 67
    Roger said:

    IanB2 said:

    viewcode said:

    "Is Starmergeddon Coming for the Tories?"
    https://www.iaindale.com/articles/is-starmergeddon-coming-for-the-tories

    AI summary
    The text discusses the current state of the Conservative Party in the midst of the election campaign and the potential aftermath of a significant defeat. It highlights that many on the right have given up hope of denting Labour's likely majority. The Conservative parliamentary party's size and who remains to rescue the party from ruins will be crucial. CCHQ (Conservative Campaign Headquarters) is reportedly losing hope, and some candidates have been ordered to halt their campaigns and assist cabinet ministers with larger majorities. The text suggests that a new leader will need to revitalize the party's policies, be popular with the public, and have good media skills. Nigel Farage is unlikely to lead the Conservative Party, despite some shared views, as he has made a career out of trying to destroy the party. The text acknowledges that the Conservative Party has bounced back from defeats in the past but predicts a terrible defeat in this election. The blame game has already begun, but it is not solely Rishi Sunak's fault for the election date or Isaac Levido's for campaign tactics. If the party is reduced to a small number of seats, a leadership contest with numerous candidates would not be necessary. Some candidates may struggle to retain their seats, while others are considered safe. Rushing a leadership contest may not be wise, and appointing a temporary leader could be an option. The text advises the Conservative Party to take their time and not rush the process.

    https://ahrefs.com/writing-tools/summarizer

    No one will want to hear from the Tory Party for a very long time.

    https://IanB2.com/writing-tools/supersummariser
    Normally better to wait for the death certificate before burial but in this instance the brain hasn't shown any sign of life for months if not longer.

    When the history of this election is written I suspect it'll show that Starmer has been much underestimated.....bad voice ....dress sense ...dull.....he's not Tony Blair and he has annoyed the hell out of a lot of labour supporters. He knew we had nowhere else to go and he took us right to the edge.

    He even used a backdrop with THREE UNION JACKS! He seemed to have no red lines. No depth he wouldn't plunge. He looked like he really was the Tory Boy of our worst nightmares. But actually the real red line was never crossed........

    He never agreed to the Rwanda scheme and all that it implied and in my opinion that was his masterstroke. That would without doubt have taken the soul out of the Party as it has for those few Conservatives who still have one.

    I'm optimistic for Sir Keir. I think he's shown himself to be very astute.
    Well, he's certainly poised to surprise on the upside..
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,788
    Nigelb said:

    Farage is, at best, an incoherent fool.
    Either that, or deliberately malign.

    Farage appeared to compare Sandy Hook parents to liberals trying to curb free speech

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/jun/24/nigel-farage-parent-sandy-hook-victims-liberals-free-speech
    The Reform UK leader was interviewed by Alex Jones on his Infowars platform in 2018, just after the parents began legal action against the radio show host for claiming that the massacre was faked. Farage did not dispute Jones’s assertion that he was being targeted by “frauds”.

    Instead, Farage said Jones’s experiences seemed to tie into a wider attempt to quash free speech, saying “the left and the state are fighting back with all their might” after Brexit and the election of Donald Trump.

    A spokesperson for Farage said the politician was “not even sure he was even aware of Sandy Hook at the time” of the interview, in April 2018.

    In December 2012, 26 people were killed by 20-year-old Adam Lanza at Sandy Hook elementary school in Newtown, Connecticut – one of the worst school shootings in US history.

    In more recent interviews, Farage praised the misogynist influencer Andrew Tate for being an “important voice” for the “emasculated”. It has also emerged that last year Farage said he would enjoy interviewing the conspiracist David Icke to find out more about how he came up with his views.

    And this weekend Farage doubled down on his claim that the west had provoked the Russian invasion of Ukraine, insisting he was not an “apologist or supporter of Putin”. The office of the Ukrainian president, Volodymyr Zelenskiy, was among those to condemn the Reform leader, saying he had been “infected with the virus of Putinism”.

    Farage has previously been criticised for appearing on Jones’s shows at least six times, and Jewish groups have expressed concern after Farage used these appearances to discuss conspiracy theories, some of which have been linked to antisemitism...

    ..Elsewhere in the same interview, Farage argued that leftwingers “hate Christianity” and wanted to abolish the nation state, saying: “They want to replace it with the globalist project, and the European Union is the prototype for the new world order.”..

    He is a fool and malign, but not incoherent?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,550
    boulay said:

    Heathener said:

    Heathener said:

    When I’m up in Surrey, even on the heath (from which my handles derives), the sound most heard is not the woodpecker, nor owl, nor the cuckoo - all of which are regulars.

    No. It’s leaf-blowers.

    Usually petrol driven and often incessant from 8am until 5pm most days of the year. Noise polluting and environmentally impactful on several levels from the 2-stroke petrol fumes to the removal of vital mulch.

    I’m not quite sure what the paranoia is amongst Surrey householders about the evil of the leaf. It’s a strange obsession in this most arboreal county of England.

    Leaf blowers are a menace and need strictly regulating.

    The noise and air pollution is horrendous for something that's essentially pointless.
    We are of one mind on this
    They should ban leaf blowers and make anyone who feels they need Ozempic spend two weeks sweeping and shovelling up nuisance leaves before they are given their prescription. They might then discover they lose weight with a bit of exercise and don’t need to take a jab for it.
    Ahem. I think we are staying into over regulation again!

    Education and designing towns to encourage but not enforce active lifestyles, yes, but not forcing.
  • sbjme19sbjme19 Posts: 194
    Stuttering Heaton Harris absolutely pathetic on Today, painful to listen to.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,903
    Nigelb said:

    Farage is, at best, an incoherent fool.
    Either that, or deliberately malign.

    Farage appeared to compare Sandy Hook parents to liberals trying to curb free speech

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/jun/24/nigel-farage-parent-sandy-hook-victims-liberals-free-speech
    The Reform UK leader was interviewed by Alex Jones on his Infowars platform in 2018, just after the parents began legal action against the radio show host for claiming that the massacre was faked. Farage did not dispute Jones’s assertion that he was being targeted by “frauds”.

    Instead, Farage said Jones’s experiences seemed to tie into a wider attempt to quash free speech, saying “the left and the state are fighting back with all their might” after Brexit and the election of Donald Trump.

    A spokesperson for Farage said the politician was “not even sure he was even aware of Sandy Hook at the time” of the interview, in April 2018.

    In December 2012, 26 people were killed by 20-year-old Adam Lanza at Sandy Hook elementary school in Newtown, Connecticut – one of the worst school shootings in US history.

    In more recent interviews, Farage praised the misogynist influencer Andrew Tate for being an “important voice” for the “emasculated”. It has also emerged that last year Farage said he would enjoy interviewing the conspiracist David Icke to find out more about how he came up with his views.

    And this weekend Farage doubled down on his claim that the west had provoked the Russian invasion of Ukraine, insisting he was not an “apologist or supporter of Putin”. The office of the Ukrainian president, Volodymyr Zelenskiy, was among those to condemn the Reform leader, saying he had been “infected with the virus of Putinism”.

    Farage has previously been criticised for appearing on Jones’s shows at least six times, and Jewish groups have expressed concern after Farage used these appearances to discuss conspiracy theories, some of which have been linked to antisemitism...

    ..Elsewhere in the same interview, Farage argued that leftwingers “hate Christianity” and wanted to abolish the nation state, saying: “They want to replace it with the globalist project, and the European Union is the prototype for the new world order.”..

    ‘Farage is, at best, an incoherent fool.
    Either that, or deliberately malign.’

    Third option hurtling down the track.
    I think he’s morally incoherent which allows his malignity full rein.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,005
    Sandpit said:

    IanB2 said:

    Heathener said:

    Hogs back? Gibbet Hill, Reigate Hill, Hascombe Hill, The view from the top of Denbies Wine Estate?

    The Hogs Back has to be one of the most dangerous roads I've ever driven in the UK. It's where Mike Hawthorne bought it, I believe.
    Yikes didn’t know that and I was just posting about it when you wrote about it.

    Some people drive like utter loons on the A31/A3. I’ve no idea why?
    Lot of frustrated racing drivers in the commuter belt.

    Off to play in the garden now. Have a nice day.
    A lot of stressed drivers.
    It's a dual carriageway trying to do the job of a three-lane motorway. I'd guess at some point it will be widened to three lanes, which will be an extremely disruptive project.
    The M8 nods sympathetically.
    I used to drive around 50,000 miles a year all around the UK, as a technician for IT equipment.

    There were only two roads that ever got me totally confused, even with an early primitive sat-nav - one was the viaduct section of the M8 through Glasgow, the other was the Leeds “Loop”.
    You'll be pleased to hear that there have been some recent changes to the road layout in Leeds.

    However, it is now worse than it was before.

    I always go in by train.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,263

    Just waiting to leave Aberdeen on the Cross Country train to Penzance. Only going as far as York but it is fun listening to all the stops along the way.

    It's still 5 and a half hours...

    Hope you've got a window seat on the left hand side...
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,486
    R4 Today is today abandoning daily racing tips. One of those things, like the Shipping Forecast you pay no attention to but is part of life's harmless routine.

    Also WRT R4 Today, Heaton-Harris sounded terrible, just as if he had been up all night and wasn't sure where he was.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,905
    edited June 24

    Nigelb said:

    The UN has been losing its way for a while.
    This is a cowardly capitulation.

    The misogynist fucks the Taliban have demanded that a UN conference on Afghanistan exclude women. And the UN agreed.

    "It is a betrayal not just of Afghan women but all women around the world.”

    https://x.com/ImtiazMadmood/status/1804842500009435548

    The UN, contrary to MAGA fantasies, has pretty limited power. Often, to get something done, they need to negotiate with unpleasant governments. They can’t force the Taliban to accept anything. I don’t know the details here, but this looks like realpolitik.
    Yes, but you also have to have core values. This shows that the rights of women are not core values for the UN.

    edit: and this approach will lead to a rush to the bottom for rights: extremists know the UN will always capitulate.
    Afghanistan is also essentially a supplicant in need of aid. If this is 'negotiation', then it's a very poor start.

    Without convincing evidence, I don't buy the 'realpolitik' explanation.
  • Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    The UN has been losing its way for a while.
    This is a cowardly capitulation.

    The misogynist fucks the Taliban have demanded that a UN conference on Afghanistan exclude women. And the UN agreed.

    "It is a betrayal not just of Afghan women but all women around the world.”

    https://x.com/ImtiazMadmood/status/1804842500009435548

    The UN, contrary to MAGA fantasies, has pretty limited power. Often, to get something done, they need to negotiate with unpleasant governments. They can’t force the Taliban to accept anything. I don’t know the details here, but this looks like realpolitik.
    Yes, but you also have to have core values. This shows that the rights of women are not core values for the UN.

    edit: and this approach will lead to a rush to the bottom for rights: extremists know the UN will always capitulate.
    Afghanistan is also essentially a supplicant in need of aid. If this is 'negotiation', then it's a very poor start.

    Without convincing evidence, I don't buy the 'realpolitik' explanation.
    Wasn't in the Last T20 I watched, they might be in the semis by Tomorrow.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,263

    Sandpit said:

    IanB2 said:

    Heathener said:

    Hogs back? Gibbet Hill, Reigate Hill, Hascombe Hill, The view from the top of Denbies Wine Estate?

    The Hogs Back has to be one of the most dangerous roads I've ever driven in the UK. It's where Mike Hawthorne bought it, I believe.
    Yikes didn’t know that and I was just posting about it when you wrote about it.

    Some people drive like utter loons on the A31/A3. I’ve no idea why?
    Lot of frustrated racing drivers in the commuter belt.

    Off to play in the garden now. Have a nice day.
    A lot of stressed drivers.
    It's a dual carriageway trying to do the job of a three-lane motorway. I'd guess at some point it will be widened to three lanes, which will be an extremely disruptive project.
    The M8 nods sympathetically.
    I used to drive around 50,000 miles a year all around the UK, as a technician for IT equipment.

    There were only two roads that ever got me totally confused, even with an early primitive sat-nav - one was the viaduct section of the M8 through Glasgow, the other was the Leeds “Loop”.
    You'll be pleased to hear that there have been some recent changes to the road layout in Leeds.

    However, it is now worse than it was before.

    I always go in by train.
    I can still get to the only car park I know how to get to....

    Actually that isn't true, we can usually get to another one if we remember that it's an immediate turnoff from the Skipton junction...
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,905

    Nigelb said:

    Farage is, at best, an incoherent fool.
    Either that, or deliberately malign.

    Farage appeared to compare Sandy Hook parents to liberals trying to curb free speech

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/jun/24/nigel-farage-parent-sandy-hook-victims-liberals-free-speech
    The Reform UK leader was interviewed by Alex Jones on his Infowars platform in 2018, just after the parents began legal action against the radio show host for claiming that the massacre was faked. Farage did not dispute Jones’s assertion that he was being targeted by “frauds”.

    Instead, Farage said Jones’s experiences seemed to tie into a wider attempt to quash free speech, saying “the left and the state are fighting back with all their might” after Brexit and the election of Donald Trump.

    A spokesperson for Farage said the politician was “not even sure he was even aware of Sandy Hook at the time” of the interview, in April 2018.

    In December 2012, 26 people were killed by 20-year-old Adam Lanza at Sandy Hook elementary school in Newtown, Connecticut – one of the worst school shootings in US history.

    In more recent interviews, Farage praised the misogynist influencer Andrew Tate for being an “important voice” for the “emasculated”. It has also emerged that last year Farage said he would enjoy interviewing the conspiracist David Icke to find out more about how he came up with his views.

    And this weekend Farage doubled down on his claim that the west had provoked the Russian invasion of Ukraine, insisting he was not an “apologist or supporter of Putin”. The office of the Ukrainian president, Volodymyr Zelenskiy, was among those to condemn the Reform leader, saying he had been “infected with the virus of Putinism”.

    Farage has previously been criticised for appearing on Jones’s shows at least six times, and Jewish groups have expressed concern after Farage used these appearances to discuss conspiracy theories, some of which have been linked to antisemitism...

    ..Elsewhere in the same interview, Farage argued that leftwingers “hate Christianity” and wanted to abolish the nation state, saying: “They want to replace it with the globalist project, and the European Union is the prototype for the new world order.”..

    He is a fool and malign, but not incoherent?
    Intellectually incoherent.
    He has a facility with words, of course.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 22,990

    Nigelb said:

    Farage is, at best, an incoherent fool.
    Either that, or deliberately malign.

    Farage appeared to compare Sandy Hook parents to liberals trying to curb free speech

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/jun/24/nigel-farage-parent-sandy-hook-victims-liberals-free-speech
    The Reform UK leader was interviewed by Alex Jones on his Infowars platform in 2018, just after the parents began legal action against the radio show host for claiming that the massacre was faked. Farage did not dispute Jones’s assertion that he was being targeted by “frauds”.

    Instead, Farage said Jones’s experiences seemed to tie into a wider attempt to quash free speech, saying “the left and the state are fighting back with all their might” after Brexit and the election of Donald Trump.

    A spokesperson for Farage said the politician was “not even sure he was even aware of Sandy Hook at the time” of the interview, in April 2018.

    In December 2012, 26 people were killed by 20-year-old Adam Lanza at Sandy Hook elementary school in Newtown, Connecticut – one of the worst school shootings in US history.

    In more recent interviews, Farage praised the misogynist influencer Andrew Tate for being an “important voice” for the “emasculated”. It has also emerged that last year Farage said he would enjoy interviewing the conspiracist David Icke to find out more about how he came up with his views.

    And this weekend Farage doubled down on his claim that the west had provoked the Russian invasion of Ukraine, insisting he was not an “apologist or supporter of Putin”. The office of the Ukrainian president, Volodymyr Zelenskiy, was among those to condemn the Reform leader, saying he had been “infected with the virus of Putinism”.

    Farage has previously been criticised for appearing on Jones’s shows at least six times, and Jewish groups have expressed concern after Farage used these appearances to discuss conspiracy theories, some of which have been linked to antisemitism...

    ..Elsewhere in the same interview, Farage argued that leftwingers “hate Christianity” and wanted to abolish the nation state, saying: “They want to replace it with the globalist project, and the European Union is the prototype for the new world order.”..

    He is a fool and malign, but not incoherent?
    It would be interesting to see the results of Farage's deranged views being published widely, rather than allowing him to control the agenda with the media.

    More widespread publicity around Trump himself is one thing washing away the foundations of his appeal.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,456

    Just waiting to leave Aberdeen on the Cross Country train to Penzance. Only going as far as York but it is fun listening to all the stops along the way.

    When I first started travelling on trains on my own, when I was fifteen or sixteen, I love listening to the stops announcements; loads of places I'd never been to it, and some of which sounded exotic. I mean, Harrogate! Hartlepool! ;)
  • CleitophonCleitophon Posts: 477
    malcolmg said:

    By the way, I know starmer isn't super exciting to many people, but it is this patient, relentless effort and strategic long term focus that I kind of admire about Starmer. He doesn't go for any one particular short term win, but always has his eye on the final outcome. He plays 8 dimensional chess with his opponents to this end. And he is utterly ruthless in this regard. People who call him flip flop and stuff like that only call him flip flop because they are not operating on the same scale - they haven't yet seen his goal. Underestimate him at your own expense....


    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/keir-starmer-boris-johnson-partygate-b2567067.html

    Either you are deranged or full of the singing ginger, WTF is that load of bollox.
    I just had a look at your other comments. I am not overly worried about your assessment hahahaha Get back to me when you have something other and more substantive than opininions.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,489

    NEW THREAD

  • Foxy said:

    Heathener said:

    When I’m up in Surrey, even on the heath (from which my handles derives), the sound most heard is not the woodpecker, nor owl, nor the cuckoo - all of which are regulars.

    No. It’s leaf-blowers.

    Usually petrol driven and often incessant from 8am until 5pm most days of the year. Noise polluting and environmentally impactful on several levels from the 2-stroke petrol fumes to the removal of vital mulch.

    I’m not quite sure what the paranoia is amongst Surrey householders about the evil of the leaf. It’s a strange obsession in this most arboreal county of England.

    Leaf blowers are a menace and need strictly regulating.

    The noise and air pollution is horrendous for something that's essentially pointless.
    I agree. Nothing wrong with a rake and a brush. It's a good workout.

    But isn't this an example of over-regulation? The instinct to ban something that we dislike is how we wind up with red tape and officiousness.
    How we end up with over-regulation in the UK is actually that we've got a terrible tendency to turn an idea to ban leaf blowers into a ban on petrol-driven leaf blowers above 28cc operated between 2pm and 9am on a weekday, except where the device (hereinafter the "legacy leaf blower") was purchased before 8th August 2021, and for use on private estates of over 500 hectares or on designated bowling greens... etc.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,614
    malcolmg said:

    Heathener said:

    When I’m up in Surrey, even on the heath (from which my handles derives), the sound most heard is not the woodpecker, nor owl, nor the cuckoo - all of which are regulars.

    No. It’s leaf-blowers.

    Usually petrol driven and often incessant from 8am until 5pm most days of the year. Noise polluting and environmentally impactful on several levels from the 2-stroke petrol fumes to the removal of vital mulch.

    I’m not quite sure what the paranoia is amongst Surrey householders about the evil of the leaf. It’s a strange obsession in this most arboreal county of England.

    Leaf blowers are a menace and need strictly regulating.

    The noise and air pollution is horrendous for something that's essentially pointless.
    And again fallen leaves are incredibly important for providing shelter and food for insects.
    Just use a rake. Once every fortnight.
    Unless you are disabled....

    Irritating as they are kneejerk banning of more and more things and ever more ineffective policing as too many things to police is what got us in this mess.
    Think of the poor old pensioners as well , typical ageist able bodied arseholes on here, all me me me.
    I've never seen a pensioner with a leaf blower; it's nearly always middle-aged men who are like 5 year olds with a new toy.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 22,990

    Sandpit said:

    IanB2 said:

    Heathener said:

    Hogs back? Gibbet Hill, Reigate Hill, Hascombe Hill, The view from the top of Denbies Wine Estate?

    The Hogs Back has to be one of the most dangerous roads I've ever driven in the UK. It's where Mike Hawthorne bought it, I believe.
    Yikes didn’t know that and I was just posting about it when you wrote about it.

    Some people drive like utter loons on the A31/A3. I’ve no idea why?
    Lot of frustrated racing drivers in the commuter belt.

    Off to play in the garden now. Have a nice day.
    A lot of stressed drivers.
    It's a dual carriageway trying to do the job of a three-lane motorway. I'd guess at some point it will be widened to three lanes, which will be an extremely disruptive project.
    The M8 nods sympathetically.
    I used to drive around 50,000 miles a year all around the UK, as a technician for IT equipment.

    There were only two roads that ever got me totally confused, even with an early primitive sat-nav - one was the viaduct section of the M8 through Glasgow, the other was the Leeds “Loop”.
    You'll be pleased to hear that there have been some recent changes to the road layout in Leeds.

    However, it is now worse than it was before.

    I always go in by train.
    Derby has a good attempt, as does Sheffield.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    Just waiting to leave Aberdeen on the Cross Country train to Penzance. Only going as far as York but it is fun listening to all the stops along the way.

    When I first started travelling on trains on my own, when I was fifteen or sixteen, I love listening to the stops announcements; loads of places I'd never been to it, and some of which sounded exotic. I mean, Harrogate! Hartlepool! ;)
    When I used to change trains at Faversham as a kid I was gently fascinated by a timetabled weekly direct train to Glasgow. It likely started at Dover I guess.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,715
    eek said:

    Just waiting to leave Aberdeen on the Cross Country train to Penzance. Only going as far as York but it is fun listening to all the stops along the way.

    It's still 5 and a half hours...

    Hope you've got a window seat on the left hand side...
    And in the shade (albeit back to what used to be called the engine).
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,994
    DavidL said:

    Foxy said:

    Heathener said:

    When I’m up in Surrey, even on the heath (from which my handles derives), the sound most heard is not the woodpecker, nor owl, nor the cuckoo - all of which are regulars.

    No. It’s leaf-blowers.

    Usually petrol driven and often incessant from 8am until 5pm most days of the year. Noise polluting and environmentally impactful on several levels from the 2-stroke petrol fumes to the removal of vital mulch.

    I’m not quite sure what the paranoia is amongst Surrey householders about the evil of the leaf. It’s a strange obsession in this most arboreal county of England.

    Leaf blowers are a menace and need strictly regulating.

    The noise and air pollution is horrendous for something that's essentially pointless.
    I agree. Nothing wrong with a rake and a brush. It's a good workout.

    But isn't this an example of over-regulation? The instinct to ban something that we dislike is how we wind up with red tape and officiousness.
    Yes, the link between some people don't like X and X should be banned is far too easily made by our current politicians of all stripes. We need to find ways of making our society more tolerant of difference.
    By banning intolerance!

    You know someone will have suggested it.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,994

    malcolmg said:

    Heathener said:

    When I’m up in Surrey, even on the heath (from which my handles derives), the sound most heard is not the woodpecker, nor owl, nor the cuckoo - all of which are regulars.

    No. It’s leaf-blowers.

    Usually petrol driven and often incessant from 8am until 5pm most days of the year. Noise polluting and environmentally impactful on several levels from the 2-stroke petrol fumes to the removal of vital mulch.

    I’m not quite sure what the paranoia is amongst Surrey householders about the evil of the leaf. It’s a strange obsession in this most arboreal county of England.

    Leaf blowers are a menace and need strictly regulating.

    The noise and air pollution is horrendous for something that's essentially pointless.
    And again fallen leaves are incredibly important for providing shelter and food for insects.
    Just use a rake. Once every fortnight.
    Unless you are disabled....

    Irritating as they are kneejerk banning of more and more things and ever more ineffective policing as too many things to police is what got us in this mess.
    Think of the poor old pensioners as well , typical ageist able bodied arseholes on here, all me me me.
    I've never seen a pensioner with a leaf blower; it's nearly always middle-aged men who are like 5 year olds with a new toy.
    It's like getting a BBQ or sandwich toaster, you start inventing reasons to use it to make it seem not a waste of money.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 10,953
    .
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    The UN has been losing its way for a while.
    This is a cowardly capitulation.

    The misogynist fucks the Taliban have demanded that a UN conference on Afghanistan exclude women. And the UN agreed.

    "It is a betrayal not just of Afghan women but all women around the world.”

    https://x.com/ImtiazMadmood/status/1804842500009435548

    The UN, contrary to MAGA fantasies, has pretty limited power. Often, to get something done, they need to negotiate with unpleasant governments. They can’t force the Taliban to accept anything. I don’t know the details here, but this looks like realpolitik.
    Yes, but you also have to have core values. This shows that the rights of women are not core values for the UN.

    edit: and this approach will lead to a rush to the bottom for rights: extremists know the UN will always capitulate.
    Afghanistan is also essentially a supplicant in need of aid. If this is 'negotiation', then it's a very poor start.

    Without convincing evidence, I don't buy the 'realpolitik' explanation.
    The article states: “The UN has been approached for comment, but in response to questioning on the involvement of Afghan civil society representatives it reportedly said arrangements for the conference were ongoing.” You don’t even have convincing evidence that the UN has capitulated.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,635
    edited June 24

    The Cat and Fiddle run In Cheshire has a few loons on it as well.

    Hartside is another - on the Penrith to Alston Road.
    Hartside is a nice cycle ride - when the road is closed...

    Wasn't it a Tarmac original? Constant gradient unlike nearly every other hill road in the UK.

    Both it and the Cat and Fiddle are mostly motorbikers trying to kill themselves rather than people in Audis.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,058
    Just got round to reading this header from @maxh - somewhat above my paygrade but excellent piece.
This discussion has been closed.