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How to stem the rise of the far right – politicalbetting.com

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  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,954
    edited June 23

    kyf_100 said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Taylor Swift is mid.

    That is my opinion. Some artists who become big you can sort of see why e.g. Carrot top Sheeran with his cool loop pedal stuff and playing about a billion tiny gigs. Or the people who popularise a totally new genre e.g. Nirvana, Beatles, Stones.

    Taylor swift, seems like every other two a penny pop star, but is a billionaire with fans willing to pay crazy money to see her. Each to their own, but is beyond me.
    She can hold 90,000 people rapt, just her and a guitar, so she's doing something right.

    The Eras show is spectacular. A technical tour de force, but again it wouldn't work if nobody liked the songs.
    Yes exactly. Her songs are REALLY good - as straight up melodic catchy pop. She’s an excellent singer songwriter and she was very pretty and she’s still rather attractive

    However that doesn’t explain her enormous global success. The explanation for that is that people like her are now so rare. Music has declined badly. So a star who writes good songs who might once have had a nice career can now have an absurdly successful career by virtue of zero competition
    Meh, there is one in every generation.

    The taylor swift superfans are the people who were going mental for "queen bee" beyonce a few years ago, or lady gaga's "little monsters" the gen before that, or "leave britney alone" if you want to go a generation earlier.

    Every generation since the bobby soxers has packaged up mediocre pop for teenage girls to scream at and rally round as it's easier than developing an actual personality.
    No, I don't think that is true. Taylor Swift is the first billionaire musician made from music alone. She is much much bigger than pop stars over the past 10-15 years and seems to only get bigger and bigger rather than fading after the first couple of albums (like most do). Why that is, I don't know.
    No she isn't, Madonna became a billionaire 10 years ago. Embarrassing the way grown adults fawn over this girl.
    The comparison with Madonna is interesting.

    For all Ms Swift's talents as a songwriter and performer, she can't dance.

    Watch Madonna at Live Aid in Philadelphia. The dance routine is 'off the charts'
  • IanB2 said:

    algarkirk said:

    JK Rowling needed an editor. The last two or three books are silly.

    And the movies she's written are utter trash.

    Yes. She is a person I greatly admire. But there's a sort of rule: as she gets longer, she gets worse. Harry Potter, first 4 or so are good fun. Last three deadly dull. The Galbraith stuff - much of which is outstanding, but as she starts writing stuff about 8,000 pages long it loses its way. She's good but she isn't Dickens or Edward Gibbon and should not try.
    Have you seen the Wizarding World films? They're all terrible and she wrote all of them. It is quite clear to me if she'd written the films they'd have been very unsuccessful.
    Hint: they’re for kiddies, like the books.
    The Potter films are for kids. But they're also good films. The Wizarding World films are just simple trash.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,677

    Taylor Swift is mid.

    That is my opinion. Some artists who become big you can sort of see why e.g. Carrot top Sheeran with his cool loop pedal stuff and playing about a billion tiny gigs. Or the people who popularise a totally new genre e.g. Nirvana, Beatles, Stones.

    Taylor swift, seems like every other two a penny pop star, but is a billionaire with fans willing to pay crazy money to see her. Each to their own, but is beyond me.
    Sheeran I really don't get. The song about the castle is passable but I'd happily accept ten quid never to have to hear it again. The rest of his output is just tedious widdly drivel. And as for 'She played the fiddle in an Irish band and she fell in love with an English man' - that manages to be mawkish, patronizing, creepy and vainglorious all at once.
  • northern_monkeynorthern_monkey Posts: 1,639
    nico679 said:

    I don't get Taylor Swift mania. She isn't Kylie, so what's the fuss about?

    I love Kylie . To think she started out in Neighbours and had that awful frizz perm in the 80s !

    She looks great into her 50s . I also still love Madonna . And Duran Duran with one of the greatest ever songs Ordinary World .

    Once again apologies to members for filling time whilst we wait for the great reveal re Betting Gate ! I’m dubious that the rumours will be proven right , anyhow not long to go now .
    My mum bought me the official 2003 Kylie calendar. Fuck me that was brittle by the time I’d finished with it.
  • Leon is 100% wrong, every time.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fantastic_Beasts_and_Where_to_Find_Them_(film)

    Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them is a 2016 fantasy film directed by David Yates and written by J. K. Rowling.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,005

    I don't get Taylor Swift mania. She isn't Kylie, so what's the fuss about?

    She's no Natalie Imbruglia either.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,954
    Leon said:

    JK Rowling needed an editor. The last two or three books are silly.

    And the movies she's written are utter trash.

    She hasn’t written any movies
    Taylor Swift has... (short film) :)
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,034

    kyf_100 said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Taylor Swift is mid.

    That is my opinion. Some artists who become big you can sort of see why e.g. Carrot top Sheeran with his cool loop pedal stuff and playing about a billion tiny gigs. Or the people who popularise a totally new genre e.g. Nirvana, Beatles, Stones.

    Taylor swift, seems like every other two a penny pop star, but is a billionaire with fans willing to pay crazy money to see her. Each to their own, but is beyond me.
    She can hold 90,000 people rapt, just her and a guitar, so she's doing something right.

    The Eras show is spectacular. A technical tour de force, but again it wouldn't work if nobody liked the songs.
    Yes exactly. Her songs are REALLY good - as straight up melodic catchy pop. She’s an excellent singer songwriter and she was very pretty and she’s still rather attractive

    However that doesn’t explain her enormous global success. The explanation for that is that people like her are now so rare. Music has declined badly. So a star who writes good songs who might once have had a nice career can now have an absurdly successful career by virtue of zero competition
    Meh, there is one in every generation.

    The taylor swift superfans are the people who were going mental for "queen bee" beyonce a few years ago, or lady gaga's "little monsters" the gen before that, or "leave britney alone" if you want to go a generation earlier.

    Every generation since the bobby soxers has packaged up mediocre pop for teenage girls to scream at and rally round as it's easier than developing an actual personality.
    Swift is selling better than those comparators.
    She's also spent a remarkable amount of time at the top for a solo female artist.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,576

    Taylor Swift is mid.

    That is my opinion. Some artists who become big you can sort of see why e.g. Carrot top Sheeran with his cool loop pedal stuff and playing about a billion tiny gigs. Or the people who popularise a totally new genre e.g. Nirvana, Beatles, Stones.

    Taylor swift, seems like every other two a penny pop star, but is a billionaire with fans willing to pay crazy money to see her. Each to their own, but is beyond me.
    I love Swifty and I don't know why. She just hypnotises me. My grandchildren think it's a hoot.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,813
    edited June 23

    Taylor Swift is mid.

    That is my opinion. Some artists who become big you can sort of see why e.g. Carrot top Sheeran with his cool loop pedal stuff and playing about a billion tiny gigs. Or the people who popularise a totally new genre e.g. Nirvana, Beatles, Stones.

    Taylor swift, seems like every other two a penny pop star, but is a billionaire with fans willing to pay crazy money to see her. Each to their own, but is beyond me.
    Sheeran I really don't get. The song about the castle is passable but I'd happily accept ten quid never to have to hear it again. The rest of his output is just tedious widdly drivel. And as for 'She played the fiddle in an Irish band and she fell in love with an English man' - that manages to be mawkish, patronizing, creepy and vainglorious all at once.
    I don't care for Sheeran myself, but I can sort of work out why he became big. The loop pedal isn't totally original, but it was a big USP for him and he can do it really well.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,954

    I don't get Taylor Swift mania. She isn't Kylie, so what's the fuss about?

    She's no Natalie Imbruglia either.
    You know 'Torn' was a cover, right?
  • Barnesian said:

    Taylor Swift is mid.

    That is my opinion. Some artists who become big you can sort of see why e.g. Carrot top Sheeran with his cool loop pedal stuff and playing about a billion tiny gigs. Or the people who popularise a totally new genre e.g. Nirvana, Beatles, Stones.

    Taylor swift, seems like every other two a penny pop star, but is a billionaire with fans willing to pay crazy money to see her. Each to their own, but is beyond me.
    I love Swifty and I don't know why. She just hypnotises me. My grandchildren think it's a hoot.
    I think it's a swift actually
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,907

    kyf_100 said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Taylor Swift is mid.

    That is my opinion. Some artists who become big you can sort of see why e.g. Carrot top Sheeran with his cool loop pedal stuff and playing about a billion tiny gigs. Or the people who popularise a totally new genre e.g. Nirvana, Beatles, Stones.

    Taylor swift, seems like every other two a penny pop star, but is a billionaire with fans willing to pay crazy money to see her. Each to their own, but is beyond me.
    She can hold 90,000 people rapt, just her and a guitar, so she's doing something right.

    The Eras show is spectacular. A technical tour de force, but again it wouldn't work if nobody liked the songs.
    Yes exactly. Her songs are REALLY good - as straight up melodic catchy pop. She’s an excellent singer songwriter and she was very pretty and she’s still rather attractive

    However that doesn’t explain her enormous global success. The explanation for that is that people like her are now so rare. Music has declined badly. So a star who writes good songs who might once have had a nice career can now have an absurdly successful career by virtue of zero competition
    Meh, there is one in every generation.

    The taylor swift superfans are the people who were going mental for "queen bee" beyonce a few years ago, or lady gaga's "little monsters" the gen before that, or "leave britney alone" if you want to go a generation earlier.

    Every generation since the bobby soxers has packaged up mediocre pop for teenage girls to scream at and rally round as it's easier than developing an actual personality.
    Swift is selling better than those comparators.
    Coldplay sell out stadiums and the most popular meal in the world is a McBurger.

    Doesn't mean either of them are any good.
  • OnboardG1OnboardG1 Posts: 1,589

    Taylor Swift is mid.

    That is my opinion. Some artists who become big you can sort of see why e.g. Carrot top Sheeran with his cool loop pedal stuff and playing about a billion tiny gigs. Or the people who popularise a totally new genre e.g. Nirvana, Beatles, Stones.

    Taylor swift, seems like every other two a penny pop star, but is a billionaire with fans willing to pay crazy money to see her. Each to their own, but is beyond me.
    Sheeran I really don't get. The song about the castle is passable but I'd happily accept ten quid never to have to hear it again. The rest of his output is just tedious widdly drivel. And as for 'She played the fiddle in an Irish band and she fell in love with an English man' - that manages to be mawkish, patronizing, creepy and vainglorious all at once.
    I listened to The A-Team back in the day and thought "Oh this is a properly interesting song and I like it". Then I found the rest of his output on Youtube and decided that, actually, I might give him a miss.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    I don't get Taylor Swift mania. She isn't Kylie, so what's the fuss about?

    She's no Natalie Imbruglia either.
    Neither can hold a candle to Sarah Cracknell
  • RattersRatters Posts: 1,074
    edited June 23
    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Taylor Swift is mid.

    That is my opinion. Some artists who become big you can sort of see why e.g. Carrot top Sheeran with his cool loop pedal stuff and playing about a billion tiny gigs. Or the people who popularise a totally new genre e.g. Nirvana, Beatles, Stones.

    Taylor swift, seems like every other two a penny pop star, but is a billionaire with fans willing to pay crazy money to see her. Each to their own, but is beyond me.
    She can hold 90,000 people rapt, just her and a guitar, so she's doing something right.

    The Eras show is spectacular. A technical tour de force, but again it wouldn't work if nobody liked the songs.
    Yes exactly. Her songs are REALLY good - as straight up melodic catchy pop. She’s an excellent singer songwriter and she was very pretty and she’s still rather attractive

    However that doesn’t explain her enormous global success. The explanation for that is that people like her are now so rare. Music has declined badly. So a star who writes good songs who might once have had a nice career can now have an absurdly successful career by virtue of zero competition
    That's rubbish.

    Just as much or more good music produced now as there ever was. But there is a lot more of it, and most of the best stuff can only command an academy sized arena and not a global stadium tour.

    It's probably fair to say the quality of the MOST popular music has declined. I agree Taylor has some very good songs, but it relies on melody alone rather than being inventive.

    Of mega pop stars, I'd say Billie Eilish, or as referenced above, Lana Del Rey, both create more interesting music. They have between 55m and 100m monthly listeners on Spotify alone - more than the Beatles or the Rolling Stones to compare to legacy great acts who remain popular.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,273

    nico679 said:

    I don't get Taylor Swift mania. She isn't Kylie, so what's the fuss about?

    I love Kylie . To think she started out in Neighbours and had that awful frizz perm in the 80s !

    She looks great into her 50s . I also still love Madonna . And Duran Duran with one of the greatest ever songs Ordinary World .

    Once again apologies to members for filling time whilst we wait for the great reveal re Betting Gate ! I’m dubious that the rumours will be proven right , anyhow not long to go now .
    My mum bought me the official 2003 Kylie calendar. Fuck me that was brittle by the time I’d finished with it.
    YouTube Confide in Me although you might pass out with excitement ! That was during her more experimental period where I thought she was under appreciated .
  • TweedledeeTweedledee Posts: 1,405
    TimS said:

    algarkirk said:

    Thanks for the article. Fascinating. A couple of thoughts.

    It is tempting to find a concept - in this case neo-liberalism and decide it is the problem. It will be more complicated than that.

    The treating of people always and everywhere as ends in themselves and not means to an end (the old Kantian language for commodification) is always a moral issue. The matter arises because people don't always act rightly; nor is it obvious in some cultures that the Kantian principle is right. Why should it be. It's highly contestable. Though not by me.

    Our society regulates and chooses, and sometimes does so well. It wasn't neo-liberals who created slavery or failed to teach poor children to read and write in 1300.

    Specifically on the points: Migration. Commodify for whom? Perhaps all manner of migration allows good personal development for people ill served by the places from which they come.

    Opiates: Modern systems regulate all drugs and have the power to do so. Errors in this are caused by people, not neo liberalism.

    Smartphones: Nothing in liberalism prevents regulation WRT children. Like alcohol and cigarettes. It's a matter for governance and voters.

    Workers' Rights: Are better enforced by wealthy liberal societies than others.

    Modern systems can regulate drugs? LOL. There was 35 tonnes of cocaine seized in one European operation last week and the business would not be viable if 90% minimum were not getting through. We can't keep drugs out of high security prisons.
    Isn’t one of the difficulties in regulating drugs the fact they are illegal?

    The opioids epidemic in the US is eminently fixable through regulation, because they are legal. It’s a regulatory failure. Whereas the scourge of, say, meth or heroin is a legal and policing failure.
    US fent is cooked up in Mexico from raw materials sourced from China, presumably to the unspeakable chagrin of the Chinese government. It's not like oxycodone - never prescribed direct to patients.
  • TimS said:

    James_M said:

    I really e joyed this. As noted by another poster it is thoughtful and salient. It strikes me how the feel of your argument aligns with the pollster thread down thread about how May's 'just about managing' had legs. I think the country are looking for a more fundamental alternative and we must avoid the extremes offering a simplistic option. The
    Conservative Party have an opportunity post-defeat to really reflect on conservatism for this era. Competence, decency and fiscal prudence are all things the party must win back trust for, but it cannot just offer a better Labour party for 10 years time. Personally, I think the party could do a lot worse than look at Nick Timothy for philosophical inspiration.

    I realise I and a few others haven’t yet engaged with the excellent header.

    Neoliberalism is a funny label. It’s almost always used as a criticism, but without the neo bit, “liberalism” is an important philosophy to cling on to: the scientific method, personal freedom, pluralism, the importance of education and so on.

    The issue is the acceleration of the globalised consumer world, but what’s the solution? Surely not a return to a nostalgic past we can’t recreate. Nor a socialist utopia where competition disappears.

    This has happened a few times in the past and it’s either led to revolution or reform. Britain has generally got ahead of revolution by reforming and regulating.

    Regulation is the unsung hero of the last century and a half. Without it we’d still be sending kids up chimneys, tolerating slums
    and dumping toxic waste in the city fringes. We’d have no advertising standards, children could easily access violent porn online (I know, I know) and we’d all own semi automatic weapons.

    The question being what now needs reforming and regulating most.

    The opposite. It is the extent and complexity of the regulating that is slowly throttling the system.
  • OnboardG1OnboardG1 Posts: 1,589
    Fucking hell OUCH. I think Scotland might just have lost their keeper.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,970
    kyf_100 said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Taylor Swift is mid.

    That is my opinion. Some artists who become big you can sort of see why e.g. Carrot top Sheeran with his cool loop pedal stuff and playing about a billion tiny gigs. Or the people who popularise a totally new genre e.g. Nirvana, Beatles, Stones.

    Taylor swift, seems like every other two a penny pop star, but is a billionaire with fans willing to pay crazy money to see her. Each to their own, but is beyond me.
    She can hold 90,000 people rapt, just her and a guitar, so she's doing something right.

    The Eras show is spectacular. A technical tour de force, but again it wouldn't work if nobody liked the songs.
    Yes exactly. Her songs are REALLY good - as straight up melodic catchy pop. She’s an excellent singer songwriter and she was very pretty and she’s still rather attractive

    However that doesn’t explain her enormous global success. The explanation for that is that people like her are now so rare. Music has declined badly. So a star who writes good songs who might once have had a nice career can now have an absurdly successful career by virtue of zero competition
    Meh, there is one in every generation.

    The taylor swift superfans are the people who were going mental for "queen bee" beyonce a few years ago, or lady gaga's "little monsters" the gen before that, or "leave britney alone" if you want to go a generation earlier.

    Every generation since the bobby soxers has packaged up mediocre pop for teenage girls to scream at and rally round as it's easier than developing an actual personality.
    But she’s not mediocre. She writes genuinely good songs with cleverly sexy lyrics - and sings them herself. She wins Grammys for a reason

    That’s rare. It is much rarer now than it was 20-40 years ago but that’s a comment on the decline of popular music not a judgement of Ms Swift

  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,480

    Rumours that a Russian space command and control centre has been hit in Crimea.

    Crimea has become a shooting gallery. Every three days, the Ukrainians win a large fluffy panda to take home.

    The Russians can't use it as a naval base. They now can't use it as an air base. It has to have a massive garrison of troops to stop the Ukrainians walking in, troops they desperately need in the north and east to assist stalled advances.

    And soon the F-16s will be lobbing bloody big bombs in, from under the security of several Patriot systems.

    Who'd be Putin, eh? (Well, apart from it making you the richest man in the world, natch.)

  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,813
    "That earlier Che Adams flier has sent Scotland's xG surging to 0.03."

    Now you shouldn't use xG like this, but still its funny.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,886

    Taylor Swift is mid.

    That is my opinion. Some artists who become big you can sort of see why e.g. Carrot top Sheeran with his cool loop pedal stuff and playing about a billion tiny gigs. Or the people who popularise a totally new genre e.g. Nirvana, Beatles, Stones.

    Taylor swift, seems like every other two a penny pop star, but is a billionaire with fans willing to pay crazy money to see her. Each to their own, but is beyond me.
    Sheeran I really don't get. The song about the castle is passable but I'd happily accept ten quid never to have to hear it again. The rest of his output is just tedious widdly drivel. And as for 'She played the fiddle in an Irish band and she fell in love with an English man' - that manages to be mawkish, patronizing, creepy and vainglorious all at once.
    I don't care for Sheeran myself, but I can sort of work out why he became big. The loop pedal isn't totally original, but it was a big USP for him and he can do it really well.
    Loop pedals are how Public Service Broadcasting can add so many layers with so few people. Its fascinating to watch!
  • Man down for Hungary, hope this isn't serious.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,341

    kyf_100 said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Taylor Swift is mid.

    That is my opinion. Some artists who become big you can sort of see why e.g. Carrot top Sheeran with his cool loop pedal stuff and playing about a billion tiny gigs. Or the people who popularise a totally new genre e.g. Nirvana, Beatles, Stones.

    Taylor swift, seems like every other two a penny pop star, but is a billionaire with fans willing to pay crazy money to see her. Each to their own, but is beyond me.
    She can hold 90,000 people rapt, just her and a guitar, so she's doing something right.

    The Eras show is spectacular. A technical tour de force, but again it wouldn't work if nobody liked the songs.
    Yes exactly. Her songs are REALLY good - as straight up melodic catchy pop. She’s an excellent singer songwriter and she was very pretty and she’s still rather attractive

    However that doesn’t explain her enormous global success. The explanation for that is that people like her are now so rare. Music has declined badly. So a star who writes good songs who might once have had a nice career can now have an absurdly successful career by virtue of zero competition
    Meh, there is one in every generation.

    The taylor swift superfans are the people who were going mental for "queen bee" beyonce a few years ago, or lady gaga's "little monsters" the gen before that, or "leave britney alone" if you want to go a generation earlier.

    Every generation since the bobby soxers has packaged up mediocre pop for teenage girls to scream at and rally round as it's easier than developing an actual personality.
    No, I don't think that is true. Taylor Swift is the first billionaire musician made from music alone. She is much much bigger than pop stars over the past 10-15 years and seems to only get bigger and bigger rather than fading after the first couple of albums (like most do). Why that is, I don't know.
    No she isn't, Madonna became a billionaire 10 years ago. Embarrassing the way grown adults fawn over this girl.
    I said purely from music. I believe all these other artists like Jay-Z are billionaires out of everything they invested in.

    Global pop icon Taylor Swift, 34, recently made it to the Forbes billionaire list, becoming the first musician to do so solely through her melodies.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/monicamercuri/2024/04/02/taylor-swift-didnt-need-lucrative-side-hustles-to-become-a-billionaire/
    Um...

    In a rare feat, Swift is the first musician to reach the milestone solely from songwriting and performing. Her fortune doesn’t largely derive from profitable side hustles (think: beauty brands, fashion lines, alcohol investments, etc.), which have been typical avenues for entertainers to become billionaires in recent years. This puts her in a unique category with artists like Bruce Springsteen, who earned $1 billion from on the road touring.


    - What a load of retarded bollocks. It doesn't even agree with itself.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,597
    edited June 23



    Nigel Farage
    @Nigel_Farage
    ·
    1h
    The Daily Mail is collaborating with the Kremlin to protect the dying Conservative Party.

    https://x.com/Nigel_Farage/status/1804948477471813804

    Edit: he actually says "colluding".
  • TweedledeeTweedledee Posts: 1,405

    Taylor Swift is mid.

    That is my opinion. Some artists who become big you can sort of see why e.g. Carrot top Sheeran with his cool loop pedal stuff and playing about a billion tiny gigs. Or the people who popularise a totally new genre e.g. Nirvana, Beatles, Stones.

    Taylor swift, seems like every other two a penny pop star, but is a billionaire with fans willing to pay crazy money to see her. Each to their own, but is beyond me.
    Sheeran I really don't get. The song about the castle is passable but I'd happily accept ten quid never to have to hear it again. The rest of his output is just tedious widdly drivel. And as for 'She played the fiddle in an Irish band and she fell in love with an English man' - that manages to be mawkish, patronizing, creepy and vainglorious all at once.
    It's worse than that in that it steals the title of a genuinely excellent song by the genuinely excellent Steve Earle. Yech.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,970
    edited June 23

    Leon is 100% wrong, every time.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fantastic_Beasts_and_Where_to_Find_Them_(film)

    Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them is a 2016 fantasy film directed by David Yates and written by J. K. Rowling.

    Yep. Fair play. I’m wrong on this and you’re right. Looks like she has written movies

    If so she was misguided - I recall her saying that she turned down the opportunity to write the Harry Potter movies because she “knew she’d be no good at it”

    That said, the wiki entry you cite says the movie grossed a ton of money and won awards. I’ve not seen it so 🤷🏼‍♂️🤷🏼‍♂️
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,813
    edited June 23




    Nigel Farage
    @Nigel_Farage
    ·
    1h
    The Daily Mail is collaborating with the Kremlin to protect the dying Conservative Party.

    https://x.com/Nigel_Farage/status/1804948477471813804

    Edit: he actually says "colluding".

    Reform campaign disintegrating....

    Like Taylor Swift, I can't work out, did he get high on his own supply and believes he can push this narrative from the past few days, or did the mask accidentally slip and now he is double / tripling down on it.
  • OnboardG1OnboardG1 Posts: 1,589

    Man down for Hungary, hope this isn't serious.

    That looked really nasty for both concerned but I think the Hungarian chap came off worse. Hopefully he's okay.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,324
    Carnyx said:


    Taz said:

    I don't get Taylor Swift mania. She isn't Kylie, so what's the fuss about?

    Kylie is massively overrated AFAIC. She is no Debbie Harry
    Debbie Harry is no Clare Grogan.
    Just waiting for a PBer to complain from personal experience that neither is Sarah Bernhardt.
    Grogan is more well know for Red Dwarf than her singing career/
  • Leon said:

    Leon is 100% wrong, every time.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fantastic_Beasts_and_Where_to_Find_Them_(film)

    Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them is a 2016 fantasy film directed by David Yates and written by J. K. Rowling.

    Yep. Fair play. I’m wrong on this and you’re right. Looks like she has written movies

    If so she was misguided - I recall her saying that she turned down the opportunity to write the Harry Potter movies because she “knew she’d be no good at it”
    I do wonder if that shows more about her mental decline than anything else.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084

    FFS loads of old guys opining about Taylor Swift. It’s like me saying I don’t see the appeal of Enrico Caruso.

    Yes a lot of us brought up children over the last 15 yrs and Taylor has been a staple. Writes her own catchy songs, works incredibly hard, a great business mind.

    Re. JK Rowling, she fiddled with the early HP films to their detriment. Best leave a writer to her genre. Whenever authors meddle in film production it invariably ends badly.

    Leon’s comment that Victoria Starmer ‘must have been an absolute stunner once’ is pure perviness coming from a 62 yr old man. The kind that makes my toes curl.
  • I see we're now at the "we don't understand what's happening in the country so let's try and tie everything to Putin" phase of the campaign.

    https://x.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1804975043547746546

    Matt Goodwin is a Russian mouthpiece and an utter tool.
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,056
    edited June 23
    OnboardG1 said:

    Man down for Hungary, hope this isn't serious.

    That looked really nasty for both concerned but I think the Hungarian chap came off worse. Hopefully he's okay.
    The impression I'm getting from the commentators and the fact they've put a sheet around him (and not shown a replay) suggests it's a very serious injury :(
  • Heathener said:

    FFS loads of old guys opining about Taylor Swift. It’s like me saying I don’t see the appeal of Enrico Caruso.

    Yes a lot of us brought up children over the last 15 yrs and Taylor has been a staple. Writes her own catchy songs, works incredibly hard, a great business mind.

    Re. JK Rowling, she fiddled with the early HP films to their detriment. Best leave a writer to her genre. Whenever authors meddle in film production it invariably ends badly.

    Leon’s comment that Victoria Starmer ‘must have been an absolute stunner once’ is pure perviness coming from a 62 yr old man. The kind that makes my toes curl.
    Strong "creepy uncle vibes" indeed
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,034

    kyf_100 said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Taylor Swift is mid.

    That is my opinion. Some artists who become big you can sort of see why e.g. Carrot top Sheeran with his cool loop pedal stuff and playing about a billion tiny gigs. Or the people who popularise a totally new genre e.g. Nirvana, Beatles, Stones.

    Taylor swift, seems like every other two a penny pop star, but is a billionaire with fans willing to pay crazy money to see her. Each to their own, but is beyond me.
    She can hold 90,000 people rapt, just her and a guitar, so she's doing something right.

    The Eras show is spectacular. A technical tour de force, but again it wouldn't work if nobody liked the songs.
    Yes exactly. Her songs are REALLY good - as straight up melodic catchy pop. She’s an excellent singer songwriter and she was very pretty and she’s still rather attractive

    However that doesn’t explain her enormous global success. The explanation for that is that people like her are now so rare. Music has declined badly. So a star who writes good songs who might once have had a nice career can now have an absurdly successful career by virtue of zero competition
    Meh, there is one in every generation.

    The taylor swift superfans are the people who were going mental for "queen bee" beyonce a few years ago, or lady gaga's "little monsters" the gen before that, or "leave britney alone" if you want to go a generation earlier.

    Every generation since the bobby soxers has packaged up mediocre pop for teenage girls to scream at and rally round as it's easier than developing an actual personality.
    No, I don't think that is true. Taylor Swift is the first billionaire musician made from music alone. She is much much bigger than pop stars over the past 10-15 years and seems to only get bigger and bigger rather than fading after the first couple of albums (like most do). Why that is, I don't know.
    No she isn't, Madonna became a billionaire 10 years ago. Embarrassing the way grown adults fawn over this girl.
    I said purely from music. I believe all these other artists like Jay-Z are billionaires out of everything they invested in.

    Global pop icon Taylor Swift, 34, recently made it to the Forbes billionaire list, becoming the first musician to do so solely through her melodies.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/monicamercuri/2024/04/02/taylor-swift-didnt-need-lucrative-side-hustles-to-become-a-billionaire/
    Um...

    In a rare feat, Swift is the first musician to reach the milestone solely from songwriting and performing. Her fortune doesn’t largely derive from profitable side hustles (think: beauty brands, fashion lines, alcohol investments, etc.), which have been typical avenues for entertainers to become billionaires in recent years. This puts her in a unique category with artists like Bruce Springsteen, who earned $1 billion from on the road touring.


    - What a load of retarded bollocks. It doesn't even agree with itself.
    That'll be because it was probably written by AI
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,907
    Leon said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Taylor Swift is mid.

    That is my opinion. Some artists who become big you can sort of see why e.g. Carrot top Sheeran with his cool loop pedal stuff and playing about a billion tiny gigs. Or the people who popularise a totally new genre e.g. Nirvana, Beatles, Stones.

    Taylor swift, seems like every other two a penny pop star, but is a billionaire with fans willing to pay crazy money to see her. Each to their own, but is beyond me.
    She can hold 90,000 people rapt, just her and a guitar, so she's doing something right.

    The Eras show is spectacular. A technical tour de force, but again it wouldn't work if nobody liked the songs.
    Yes exactly. Her songs are REALLY good - as straight up melodic catchy pop. She’s an excellent singer songwriter and she was very pretty and she’s still rather attractive

    However that doesn’t explain her enormous global success. The explanation for that is that people like her are now so rare. Music has declined badly. So a star who writes good songs who might once have had a nice career can now have an absurdly successful career by virtue of zero competition
    Meh, there is one in every generation.

    The taylor swift superfans are the people who were going mental for "queen bee" beyonce a few years ago, or lady gaga's "little monsters" the gen before that, or "leave britney alone" if you want to go a generation earlier.

    Every generation since the bobby soxers has packaged up mediocre pop for teenage girls to scream at and rally round as it's easier than developing an actual personality.
    But she’s not mediocre. She writes genuinely good songs with cleverly sexy lyrics - and sings them herself. She wins Grammys for a reason

    That’s rare. It is much rarer now than it was 20-40 years ago but that’s a comment on the decline of popular music not a judgement of Ms Swift

    It's not rare at all. In terms of commercial success, going back from the 1970s, you have similar fandoms for Aretha Franklin, Donna Summer, Cyndi Lauper, Madonna, Mariah Carey, Britney Spears, Beyonce, Lady Gaga, Adele, Billie Eilish, etc.

    None of them are my cup of tea, but I understand why people like them. To suggest that Taylor Swift is somehow a cut above them, I don't get it. It's middle of the road pop aimed at young girls - a popular genre since the bobby soxers.
  • northern_monkeynorthern_monkey Posts: 1,639
    edited June 23
    nico679 said:

    nico679 said:

    I don't get Taylor Swift mania. She isn't Kylie, so what's the fuss about?

    I love Kylie . To think she started out in Neighbours and had that awful frizz perm in the 80s !

    She looks great into her 50s . I also still love Madonna . And Duran Duran with one of the greatest ever songs Ordinary World .

    Once again apologies to members for filling time whilst we wait for the great reveal re Betting Gate ! I’m dubious that the rumours will be proven right , anyhow not long to go now .
    My mum bought me the official 2003 Kylie calendar. Fuck me that was brittle by the time I’d finished with it.
    YouTube Confide in Me although you might pass out with excitement ! That was during her more experimental period where I thought she was under appreciated .
    The gold hot pants. Can’t Get You Out of my Head video. Jesus Christ.

    I’d crawl a mile over broken glass to eat late 90s/early noughties Kylie’s shit.

    When I unwrapped the 2003 calendar my mum got me for Xmas 2002 - I was 24 - I was like what the fuck are you trying to do to me?! It was a glossy high quality 12 page advert for her own lingerie line.

    I’m seriously tempted to drop like £40 or something ridiculous on one off eBay cos my copy shattered into a thousand pieces on one terrible day I prefer not to think about.

    Edit - would be tricky to explain to the missus though.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,324
    Leon said:

    Leon is 100% wrong, every time.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fantastic_Beasts_and_Where_to_Find_Them_(film)

    Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them is a 2016 fantasy film directed by David Yates and written by J. K. Rowling.

    Yep. Fair play. I’m wrong on this and you’re right. Looks like she has written movies

    If so she was misguided - I recall her saying that she turned down the opportunity to write the Harry Potter movies because she “knew she’d be no good at it”

    That said, the wiki entry you cite says the movie grossed a ton of money and won awards. I’ve not seen it so 🤷🏼‍♂️🤷🏼‍♂️
    What a dud

    Cost up to 200 Million USD and struggled badly taking 814 million USD.

  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    Scott_xP said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Taylor Swift is mid.

    That is my opinion. Some artists who become big you can sort of see why e.g. Carrot top Sheeran with his cool loop pedal stuff and playing about a billion tiny gigs. Or the people who popularise a totally new genre e.g. Nirvana, Beatles, Stones.

    Taylor swift, seems like every other two a penny pop star, but is a billionaire with fans willing to pay crazy money to see her. Each to their own, but is beyond me.
    She can hold 90,000 people rapt, just her and a guitar, so she's doing something right.

    The Eras show is spectacular. A technical tour de force, but again it wouldn't work if nobody liked the songs.
    Yes exactly. Her songs are REALLY good - as straight up melodic catchy pop. She’s an excellent singer songwriter and she was very pretty and she’s still rather attractive

    However that doesn’t explain her enormous global success. The explanation for that is that people like her are now so rare. Music has declined badly. So a star who writes good songs who might once have had a nice career can now have an absurdly successful career by virtue of zero competition
    Meh, there is one in every generation.

    The taylor swift superfans are the people who were going mental for "queen bee" beyonce a few years ago, or lady gaga's "little monsters" the gen before that, or "leave britney alone" if you want to go a generation earlier.

    Every generation since the bobby soxers has packaged up mediocre pop for teenage girls to scream at and rally round as it's easier than developing an actual personality.
    No, I don't think that is true. Taylor Swift is the first billionaire musician made from music alone. She is much much bigger than pop stars over the past 10-15 years and seems to only get bigger and bigger rather than fading after the first couple of albums (like most do). Why that is, I don't know.
    No she isn't, Madonna became a billionaire 10 years ago. Embarrassing the way grown adults fawn over this girl.
    The comparison with Madonna is interesting.

    For all Ms Swift's talents as a songwriter and performer, she can't dance.

    Watch Madonna at Live Aid in Philadelphia. The dance routine is 'off the charts'
    Erm, maybe because Madonna was a professional dancer before she became a singer.

    Tsk
  • Taz said:

    Leon said:

    Leon is 100% wrong, every time.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fantastic_Beasts_and_Where_to_Find_Them_(film)

    Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them is a 2016 fantasy film directed by David Yates and written by J. K. Rowling.

    Yep. Fair play. I’m wrong on this and you’re right. Looks like she has written movies

    If so she was misguided - I recall her saying that she turned down the opportunity to write the Harry Potter movies because she “knew she’d be no good at it”

    That said, the wiki entry you cite says the movie grossed a ton of money and won awards. I’ve not seen it so 🤷🏼‍♂️🤷🏼‍♂️
    What a dud

    Cost up to 200 Million USD and struggled badly taking 814 million USD.

    Doesn't mean they weren't utter trash films
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,752

    Man down for Hungary, hope this isn't serious.

    Looks really bad.


    Meantime Scotland try something novel. Having a genuine centre forward on the pitch
  • OnboardG1OnboardG1 Posts: 1,589
    CatMan said:

    OnboardG1 said:

    Man down for Hungary, hope this isn't serious.

    That looked really nasty for both concerned but I think the Hungarian chap came off worse. Hopefully he's okay.
    The impression I'm getting from the commentators and the fact they've put a sheet around him (and not shown a reply) suggests it's a very serious injury :(
    Yep, off to hospital. Hopefully that's just precautionary because of a head strike.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,813
    edited June 23
    kyf_100 said:

    Leon said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Taylor Swift is mid.

    That is my opinion. Some artists who become big you can sort of see why e.g. Carrot top Sheeran with his cool loop pedal stuff and playing about a billion tiny gigs. Or the people who popularise a totally new genre e.g. Nirvana, Beatles, Stones.

    Taylor swift, seems like every other two a penny pop star, but is a billionaire with fans willing to pay crazy money to see her. Each to their own, but is beyond me.
    She can hold 90,000 people rapt, just her and a guitar, so she's doing something right.

    The Eras show is spectacular. A technical tour de force, but again it wouldn't work if nobody liked the songs.
    Yes exactly. Her songs are REALLY good - as straight up melodic catchy pop. She’s an excellent singer songwriter and she was very pretty and she’s still rather attractive

    However that doesn’t explain her enormous global success. The explanation for that is that people like her are now so rare. Music has declined badly. So a star who writes good songs who might once have had a nice career can now have an absurdly successful career by virtue of zero competition
    Meh, there is one in every generation.

    The taylor swift superfans are the people who were going mental for "queen bee" beyonce a few years ago, or lady gaga's "little monsters" the gen before that, or "leave britney alone" if you want to go a generation earlier.

    Every generation since the bobby soxers has packaged up mediocre pop for teenage girls to scream at and rally round as it's easier than developing an actual personality.
    But she’s not mediocre. She writes genuinely good songs with cleverly sexy lyrics - and sings them herself. She wins Grammys for a reason

    That’s rare. It is much rarer now than it was 20-40 years ago but that’s a comment on the decline of popular music not a judgement of Ms Swift

    It's not rare at all. In terms of commercial success, going back from the 1970s, you have similar fandoms for Aretha Franklin, Donna Summer, Cyndi Lauper, Madonna, Mariah Carey, Britney Spears, Beyonce, Lady Gaga, Adele, Billie Eilish, etc.

    None of them are my cup of tea, but I understand why people like them. To suggest that Taylor Swift is somehow a cut above them, I don't get it. It's middle of the road pop aimed at young girls - a popular genre since the bobby soxers.
    I guess the criticism of somebody like Billie Ellish vs Swift, is that it is her brother in law that have a very large hand in writing all the songs, even if they are more interesting than Swift's.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,310
    ...
    Leon said:

    Taylor Swift is mid.

    She’s mid now but she used to be extremely sexy and lush. She’s now in her 30s. People forget

    Also: she has written superb country pop-rock songs. She’s not imaginary. She’s genuinely good

    However I wonder how she will evolve. Her whole shtick is being the sexy girl talking about sex and being a neglected cheerleader… she can’t push that into her late 30s
    Over the top in her thirties? I am sure she will bear your comments in mind Grandad.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,324
    Scott_xP said:

    I don't get Taylor Swift mania. She isn't Kylie, so what's the fuss about?

    She's no Natalie Imbruglia either.
    You know 'Torn' was a cover, right?
    and ?
  • Nunu5Nunu5 Posts: 963
    Swift is a mediocre singer but a good pop song writer
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,970

    Taylor Swift is mid.

    That is my opinion. Some artists who become big you can sort of see why e.g. Carrot top Sheeran with his cool loop pedal stuff and playing about a billion tiny gigs. Or the people who popularise a totally new genre e.g. Nirvana, Beatles, Stones.

    Taylor swift, seems like every other two a penny pop star, but is a billionaire with fans willing to pay crazy money to see her. Each to their own, but is beyond me.
    Sheeran I really don't get. The song about the castle is passable but I'd happily accept ten quid never to have to hear it again. The rest of his output is just tedious widdly drivel. And as for 'She played the fiddle in an Irish band and she fell in love with an English man' - that manages to be mawkish, patronizing, creepy and vainglorious all at once.
    I don't care for Sheeran myself, but I can sort of work out why he became big. The loop pedal isn't totally original, but it was a big USP for him and he can do it really well.
    I used to mercilessly mock my older daughter for liking the total mediocrity that is Ed Sheeran

    Then one day we were driving home from a day out and a version of Ed Sheeran came on the radio - but played by a low fi reggae fusion band

    It was brilliant. Seriously good. And I had to acknowledge this to my daughter

    So maybe ed sheeran actually writes really clever songs but it’s his own whiny rendition that gets in the way
  • TweedledeeTweedledee Posts: 1,405
    Scott_xP said:

    I don't get Taylor Swift mania. She isn't Kylie, so what's the fuss about?

    She's no Natalie Imbruglia either.
    You know 'Torn' was a cover, right?
    Like My Way and It's Oh So Quiet and When the Levee Breaks and All Along the Watchtower?
  • maxhmaxh Posts: 1,221
    vino said:

    Hi Max H - good thread - what do you think of the Swiss referendums system to get people back onside?

    Thanks Vino! Hmmm...I think after Brexit, 'referendum' is probably too dirty a word. And I confess I don't know enough about the Swiss system. In general I wonder if we need to get away from the tyranny of the majority where we can. The Swiss may do this.
    rcs1000 said:

    algarkirk said:

    Thanks for the article. Fascinating. A couple of thoughts.

    It is tempting to find a concept - in this case neo-liberalism and decide it is the problem. It will be more complicated than that.

    The treating of people always and everywhere as ends in themselves and not means to an end (the old Kantian language for commodification) is always a moral issue. The matter arises because people don't always act rightly; nor is it obvious in some cultures that the Kantian principle is right. Why should it be. It's highly contestable. Though not by me.

    Our society regulates and chooses, and sometimes does so well. It wasn't neo-liberals who created slavery or failed to teach poor children to read and write in 1300.

    Specifically on the points: Migration. Commodify for whom? Perhaps all manner of migration allows good personal development for people ill served by the places from which they come.

    Opiates: Modern systems regulate all drugs and have the power to do so. Errors in this are caused by people, not neo liberalism.

    Smartphones: Nothing in liberalism prevents regulation WRT children. Like alcohol and cigarettes. It's a matter for governance and voters.

    Workers' Rights: Are better enforced by wealthy liberal societies than others.

    It is human nature to see a problem, and seek out reasons why something you already don't like is responsible for it.
    Thanks both.

    @algarkirk I agree this isn't a new problem.

    On migration, I think what you say can be true in many cases. But I think there are (at least) two types of case where that doesn't hold true: those who are driven to migrate from an economic imperative, breaking valuable cultural ties in so doing. Second, host communities who experience high levels of inward migration in a short period, over which they have little control.

    On opiates: I disagree. Were it not for the markets and incentive structures associated with the distribution of Oxycontin (amongst other opiates) the crisis would be more shallow, regardless of the particular nature of e.g. the Sackler family.

    Smartphones: agreed, good challenge, I think this might be one we solve relatively soon through regulation.

    Workers' Rights: perhaps, though isn't the USA a counterpoint? And in some respects these rights are in retreat e.g. the move towards a gig economy.

    @rcs1000 definitely a risk, perhaps a trap I've fallen into. Though it's also possible that something you already don't like really is responsible.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,813
    That looked like a penalty for Scotland.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    Leon said:

    Taylor Swift is mid.

    That is my opinion. Some artists who become big you can sort of see why e.g. Carrot top Sheeran with his cool loop pedal stuff and playing about a billion tiny gigs. Or the people who popularise a totally new genre e.g. Nirvana, Beatles, Stones.

    Taylor swift, seems like every other two a penny pop star, but is a billionaire with fans willing to pay crazy money to see her. Each to their own, but is beyond me.
    Sheeran I really don't get. The song about the castle is passable but I'd happily accept ten quid never to have to hear it again. The rest of his output is just tedious widdly drivel. And as for 'She played the fiddle in an Irish band and she fell in love with an English man' - that manages to be mawkish, patronizing, creepy and vainglorious all at once.
    I don't care for Sheeran myself, but I can sort of work out why he became big. The loop pedal isn't totally original, but it was a big USP for him and he can do it really well.
    I used to mercilessly mock my older daughter for liking the total mediocrity that is Ed Sheeran

    Then one day we were driving home from a day out and a version of Ed Sheeran came on the radio - but played by a low fi reggae fusion band

    It was brilliant. Seriously good. And I had to acknowledge this to my daughter

    So maybe ed sheeran actually writes really clever songs but it’s his own whiny rendition that gets in the way
    He sponsors Ipswich so I have to like him now.
  • Ed Sheeran is talented but puts out mid-tier pop hits. He chooses to be good when it fancies him.

    He is the Adam Sandler of music.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,954
    Nunu5 said:

    Swift is a mediocre singer but a good pop song writer

    She's a good performer. Really good mic technique. And she can actually play
  • That was a penalty, clear as day.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,970

    Heathener said:

    FFS loads of old guys opining about Taylor Swift. It’s like me saying I don’t see the appeal of Enrico Caruso.

    Yes a lot of us brought up children over the last 15 yrs and Taylor has been a staple. Writes her own catchy songs, works incredibly hard, a great business mind.

    Re. JK Rowling, she fiddled with the early HP films to their detriment. Best leave a writer to her genre. Whenever authors meddle in film production it invariably ends badly.

    Leon’s comment that Victoria Starmer ‘must have been an absolute stunner once’ is pure perviness coming from a 62 yr old man. The kind that makes my toes curl.
    Strong "creepy uncle vibes" indeed
    You’ll be pleased to hear my ex wife is significantly younger than taylor swift
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,597

    FFS loads of old guys opining about Taylor Swift. It’s like me saying I don’t see the appeal of Enrico Caruso.

    There's only one thing more sad than old and middle aged gits complaining that it's not as good as the old days, and that's old and middle aged gits fawning over the newest thing in a desperate bid to cling on to some relevance.
    As an old, Wolf Alice are the only thing that has caught my attention of late.
  • BatteryCorrectHorseBatteryCorrectHorse Posts: 3,538
    edited June 23
    Leon said:

    Heathener said:

    FFS loads of old guys opining about Taylor Swift. It’s like me saying I don’t see the appeal of Enrico Caruso.

    Yes a lot of us brought up children over the last 15 yrs and Taylor has been a staple. Writes her own catchy songs, works incredibly hard, a great business mind.

    Re. JK Rowling, she fiddled with the early HP films to their detriment. Best leave a writer to her genre. Whenever authors meddle in film production it invariably ends badly.

    Leon’s comment that Victoria Starmer ‘must have been an absolute stunner once’ is pure perviness coming from a 62 yr old man. The kind that makes my toes curl.
    Strong "creepy uncle vibes" indeed
    You’ll be pleased to hear my ex wife is significantly younger than taylor swift
    Just makes it even worse, let's hope she's fictional like everything else you write.

    Enough.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,813
    edited June 23
    VAR to the rescue again...ohhhhh.....Scottish player rugby tackled in the box, VAR, no, nothing to see ref, play on.
  • OnboardG1OnboardG1 Posts: 1,589
    edited June 23

    That was a penalty, clear as day.

    Hmm, nah not sure. If he'd had his toe on the ball then maybe but I think it was just a wee bonk.

    EDIT: Both these teams are pretty bad though.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,273

    ...

    Leon said:

    Taylor Swift is mid.

    She’s mid now but she used to be extremely sexy and lush. She’s now in her 30s. People forget

    Also: she has written superb country pop-rock songs. She’s not imaginary. She’s genuinely good

    However I wonder how she will evolve. Her whole shtick is being the sexy girl talking about sex and being a neglected cheerleader… she can’t push that into her late 30s
    Over the top in her thirties? I am sure she will bear your comments in mind Grandad.
    Guys on politics forum tell successful billionaire singer how to run her career...

    FFS!
    Don’t you just love it . Bless this forum ! We’re in a holding pattern till the papers come out .
  • DoubleCarpetDoubleCarpet Posts: 888

    FFS loads of old guys opining about Taylor Swift. It’s like me saying I don’t see the appeal of Enrico Caruso.

    There's only one thing more sad than old and middle aged gits complaining that it's not as good as the old days, and that's old and middle aged gits fawning over the newest thing in a desperate bid to cling on to some relevance.
    Hardly the "newest thing" given that she's been big since Brown was in No 10.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,954
    I don't know if Scotland deserve to qualify after that game, but as a spectacle it is dire. The ref has not had a good game
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,813
    edited June 23
    Seems like quite a low bar when singer can actually play instrument / sing is USP...
  • TheValiantTheValiant Posts: 1,874
    kyf_100 said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Taylor Swift is mid.

    That is my opinion. Some artists who become big you can sort of see why e.g. Carrot top Sheeran with his cool loop pedal stuff and playing about a billion tiny gigs. Or the people who popularise a totally new genre e.g. Nirvana, Beatles, Stones.

    Taylor swift, seems like every other two a penny pop star, but is a billionaire with fans willing to pay crazy money to see her. Each to their own, but is beyond me.
    She can hold 90,000 people rapt, just her and a guitar, so she's doing something right.

    The Eras show is spectacular. A technical tour de force, but again it wouldn't work if nobody liked the songs.
    Yes exactly. Her songs are REALLY good - as straight up melodic catchy pop. She’s an excellent singer songwriter and she was very pretty and she’s still rather attractive

    However that doesn’t explain her enormous global success. The explanation for that is that people like her are now so rare. Music has declined badly. So a star who writes good songs who might once have had a nice career can now have an absurdly successful career by virtue of zero competition
    Meh, there is one in every generation.

    The taylor swift superfans are the people who were going mental for "queen bee" beyonce a few years ago, or lady gaga's "little monsters" the gen before that, or "leave britney alone" if you want to go a generation earlier.

    Every generation since the bobby soxers has packaged up mediocre pop for teenage girls to scream at and rally round as it's easier than developing an actual personality.
    Swift started in 2008 with Love Story (which I quite liked at the time too).
    She's been around an incredibly long time and dominated the 2010s and is dominating the 2020s too.

    Sure, her time will come but not quite yet.
    She basically spent as long at the top as Madonna did, and still doesn't look (yet) like losing her shine.
  • ...

    Leon said:

    Taylor Swift is mid.

    She’s mid now but she used to be extremely sexy and lush. She’s now in her 30s. People forget

    Also: she has written superb country pop-rock songs. She’s not imaginary. She’s genuinely good

    However I wonder how she will evolve. Her whole shtick is being the sexy girl talking about sex and being a neglected cheerleader… she can’t push that into her late 30s
    Over the top in her thirties? I am sure she will bear your comments in mind Grandad.
    Guys on politics forum tell successful billionaire singer how to run her career...

    FFS!
    Shush now. The men are talking.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,813
    edited June 23

    kyf_100 said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Taylor Swift is mid.

    That is my opinion. Some artists who become big you can sort of see why e.g. Carrot top Sheeran with his cool loop pedal stuff and playing about a billion tiny gigs. Or the people who popularise a totally new genre e.g. Nirvana, Beatles, Stones.

    Taylor swift, seems like every other two a penny pop star, but is a billionaire with fans willing to pay crazy money to see her. Each to their own, but is beyond me.
    She can hold 90,000 people rapt, just her and a guitar, so she's doing something right.

    The Eras show is spectacular. A technical tour de force, but again it wouldn't work if nobody liked the songs.
    Yes exactly. Her songs are REALLY good - as straight up melodic catchy pop. She’s an excellent singer songwriter and she was very pretty and she’s still rather attractive

    However that doesn’t explain her enormous global success. The explanation for that is that people like her are now so rare. Music has declined badly. So a star who writes good songs who might once have had a nice career can now have an absurdly successful career by virtue of zero competition
    Meh, there is one in every generation.

    The taylor swift superfans are the people who were going mental for "queen bee" beyonce a few years ago, or lady gaga's "little monsters" the gen before that, or "leave britney alone" if you want to go a generation earlier.

    Every generation since the bobby soxers has packaged up mediocre pop for teenage girls to scream at and rally round as it's easier than developing an actual personality.
    Swift started in 2008 with Love Story (which I quite liked at the time too).
    She's been around an incredibly long time and dominated the 2010s and is dominating the 2020s too.

    Sure, her time will come but not quite yet.
    She basically spent as long at the top as Madonna did, and still doesn't look (yet) like losing her shine.
    Era tour is her biggest to date.
  • TheValiantTheValiant Posts: 1,874

    Taz said:

    I don't get Taylor Swift mania. She isn't Kylie, so what's the fuss about?

    Kylie is massively overrated AFAIC. She is no Debbie Harry
    Debbie Harry is no Clare Grogan.
    And Clare Grogan is no Kristine Kocha..... no wait.....
  • OnboardG1OnboardG1 Posts: 1,589
    Scott_xP said:

    I don't know if Scotland deserve to qualify after that game, but as a spectacle it is dire. The ref has not had a good game

    Like watching the lower third of the SPL trying to avoid relegation.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,480

    FFS loads of old guys opining about Taylor Swift. It’s like me saying I don’t see the appeal of Enrico Caruso.

    There's only one thing more sad than old and middle aged gits complaining that it's not as good as the old days, and that's old and middle aged gits fawning over the newest thing in a desperate bid to cling on to some relevance.
    Hardly the "newest thing" given that she's been big since Brown was in No 10.
    Now, if instead of the Arctic Monkeys...
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,813

    ...

    Leon said:

    Taylor Swift is mid.

    She’s mid now but she used to be extremely sexy and lush. She’s now in her 30s. People forget

    Also: she has written superb country pop-rock songs. She’s not imaginary. She’s genuinely good

    However I wonder how she will evolve. Her whole shtick is being the sexy girl talking about sex and being a neglected cheerleader… she can’t push that into her late 30s
    Over the top in her thirties? I am sure she will bear your comments in mind Grandad.
    Guys on politics forum tell successful billionaire singer how to run her career...

    FFS!
    Shush now. The men are talking.
    Cues up link to classic video....
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,970

    Leon said:

    Heathener said:

    FFS loads of old guys opining about Taylor Swift. It’s like me saying I don’t see the appeal of Enrico Caruso.

    Yes a lot of us brought up children over the last 15 yrs and Taylor has been a staple. Writes her own catchy songs, works incredibly hard, a great business mind.

    Re. JK Rowling, she fiddled with the early HP films to their detriment. Best leave a writer to her genre. Whenever authors meddle in film production it invariably ends badly.

    Leon’s comment that Victoria Starmer ‘must have been an absolute stunner once’ is pure perviness coming from a 62 yr old man. The kind that makes my toes curl.
    Strong "creepy uncle vibes" indeed
    You’ll be pleased to hear my ex wife is significantly younger than taylor swift
    Just makes it even worse, let's hope she's fictional like everything else you write.

    Enough.
    Fraid not. All true. Some girls like the older guy

    But you need to have a really good sense of humour so I wouldn’t bank on this if I were you
  • To combine two of PB's favourite interests:

    Facebook is currently showing me a sponsored ad from Nigel Farage. It reads "Come and meet me on Monday 24th June in Newton Abbot. Book your tickets now!"

    For anyone who wonders about big tech knowing too much of our lives, I am relieved that Facebook (a) thinks I might be interested in seeing Nigel Farage (b) thinks I live within 150 miles of Newton Abbot.

    Thats because its AI saw you reading one of our correspondents updates from Newton Abbot and various posts about Fargle and made 5.

    Meanwhile its propping up the US stockmarket....
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,273

    kyf_100 said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Taylor Swift is mid.

    That is my opinion. Some artists who become big you can sort of see why e.g. Carrot top Sheeran with his cool loop pedal stuff and playing about a billion tiny gigs. Or the people who popularise a totally new genre e.g. Nirvana, Beatles, Stones.

    Taylor swift, seems like every other two a penny pop star, but is a billionaire with fans willing to pay crazy money to see her. Each to their own, but is beyond me.
    She can hold 90,000 people rapt, just her and a guitar, so she's doing something right.

    The Eras show is spectacular. A technical tour de force, but again it wouldn't work if nobody liked the songs.
    Yes exactly. Her songs are REALLY good - as straight up melodic catchy pop. She’s an excellent singer songwriter and she was very pretty and she’s still rather attractive

    However that doesn’t explain her enormous global success. The explanation for that is that people like her are now so rare. Music has declined badly. So a star who writes good songs who might once have had a nice career can now have an absurdly successful career by virtue of zero competition
    Meh, there is one in every generation.

    The taylor swift superfans are the people who were going mental for "queen bee" beyonce a few years ago, or lady gaga's "little monsters" the gen before that, or "leave britney alone" if you want to go a generation earlier.

    Every generation since the bobby soxers has packaged up mediocre pop for teenage girls to scream at and rally round as it's easier than developing an actual personality.
    Swift started in 2008 with Love Story (which I quite liked at the time too).
    She's been around an incredibly long time and dominated the 2010s and is dominating the 2020s too.

    Sure, her time will come but not quite yet.
    She basically spent as long at the top as Madonna did, and still doesn't look (yet) like losing her shine.
    I think in terms of versatility Madonna wins hands down though.

  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,954
    American football fans were losing their shit when Taylor turned up at games to watch Travis Kelce play.

    He just appeared onstage with her in London
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,471
    Don't know what "mid" means, and never knowingly listened to a Taylor Swift song.
  • UnpopularUnpopular Posts: 880

    nico679 said:

    nico679 said:

    I don't get Taylor Swift mania. She isn't Kylie, so what's the fuss about?

    I love Kylie . To think she started out in Neighbours and had that awful frizz perm in the 80s !

    She looks great into her 50s . I also still love Madonna . And Duran Duran with one of the greatest ever songs Ordinary World .

    Once again apologies to members for filling time whilst we wait for the great reveal re Betting Gate ! I’m dubious that the rumours will be proven right , anyhow not long to go now .
    My mum bought me the official 2003 Kylie calendar. Fuck me that was brittle by the time I’d finished with it.
    YouTube Confide in Me although you might pass out with excitement ! That was during her more experimental period where I thought she was under appreciated .
    The gold hot pants. Can’t Get You Out of my Head video. Jesus Christ.

    I’d crawl a mile over broken glass to eat late 90s/early noughties Kylie’s shit.

    When I unwrapped the 2003 calendar my mum got me for Xmas 2002 - I was 24 - I was like what the fuck are you trying to do to me?! It was a glossy high quality 12 page advert for her own lingerie line.

    I’m seriously tempted to drop like £40 or something ridiculous on one off eBay cos my copy shattered into a thousand pieces on one terrible day I prefer not to think about.

    Edit - would be tricky to explain to the missus though.
    Good god. It's Sunday, I've got the BBC's Great War on the telly/YouTube and I have a look at PB...

    That said, Kylie was before my time, though I do enjoy her Rosé Prosecco. Ms Taylor Swift on the other hand...
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,324

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    Leon is 100% wrong, every time.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fantastic_Beasts_and_Where_to_Find_Them_(film)

    Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them is a 2016 fantasy film directed by David Yates and written by J. K. Rowling.

    Yep. Fair play. I’m wrong on this and you’re right. Looks like she has written movies

    If so she was misguided - I recall her saying that she turned down the opportunity to write the Harry Potter movies because she “knew she’d be no good at it”

    That said, the wiki entry you cite says the movie grossed a ton of money and won awards. I’ve not seen it so 🤷🏼‍♂️🤷🏼‍♂️
    What a dud

    Cost up to 200 Million USD and struggled badly taking 814 million USD.

    Doesn't mean they weren't utter trash films

    Doesn't mean they were either and you comment on her so called mental decline. Really ?

    Get a grip
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,005
    Scott_xP said:

    I don't get Taylor Swift mania. She isn't Kylie, so what's the fuss about?

    She's no Natalie Imbruglia either.
    You know 'Torn' was a cover, right?
    There's a lot more to Nat than Torn.
  • BatteryCorrectHorseBatteryCorrectHorse Posts: 3,538
    edited June 23
    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    Leon is 100% wrong, every time.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fantastic_Beasts_and_Where_to_Find_Them_(film)

    Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them is a 2016 fantasy film directed by David Yates and written by J. K. Rowling.

    Yep. Fair play. I’m wrong on this and you’re right. Looks like she has written movies

    If so she was misguided - I recall her saying that she turned down the opportunity to write the Harry Potter movies because she “knew she’d be no good at it”

    That said, the wiki entry you cite says the movie grossed a ton of money and won awards. I’ve not seen it so 🤷🏼‍♂️🤷🏼‍♂️
    What a dud

    Cost up to 200 Million USD and struggled badly taking 814 million USD.

    Doesn't mean they weren't utter trash films

    Doesn't mean they were either and you comment on her so called mental decline. Really ?

    Get a grip
    Why is it okay to comment on Joe Biden's mental decline but not JK Rowling's?

    Get a grip in Taz speak is "I don't agree but having nothing substantive to reply". Utter drivel.
  • OnboardG1OnboardG1 Posts: 1,589
    Tartan Army are in good voice, but fucking hell this game has big "Callie vs Thistle on a wet Saturday afternoon in November" vibes about it.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 10,953
    .
    DougSeal said:

    I don't get Taylor Swift mania. She isn't Kylie, so what's the fuss about?

    She's no Natalie Imbruglia either.
    Neither can hold a candle to Sarah Cracknell
    She works with a friend of mine, so I met her backstage before a gig. She was ironing.
  • Andy_JS said:

    Don't know what "mid" means, and never knowingly listened to a Taylor Swift song.

    It just means distinctly average. The kind of thing teenage girls like.
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,907

    kyf_100 said:

    Leon said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Taylor Swift is mid.

    That is my opinion. Some artists who become big you can sort of see why e.g. Carrot top Sheeran with his cool loop pedal stuff and playing about a billion tiny gigs. Or the people who popularise a totally new genre e.g. Nirvana, Beatles, Stones.

    Taylor swift, seems like every other two a penny pop star, but is a billionaire with fans willing to pay crazy money to see her. Each to their own, but is beyond me.
    She can hold 90,000 people rapt, just her and a guitar, so she's doing something right.

    The Eras show is spectacular. A technical tour de force, but again it wouldn't work if nobody liked the songs.
    Yes exactly. Her songs are REALLY good - as straight up melodic catchy pop. She’s an excellent singer songwriter and she was very pretty and she’s still rather attractive

    However that doesn’t explain her enormous global success. The explanation for that is that people like her are now so rare. Music has declined badly. So a star who writes good songs who might once have had a nice career can now have an absurdly successful career by virtue of zero competition
    Meh, there is one in every generation.

    The taylor swift superfans are the people who were going mental for "queen bee" beyonce a few years ago, or lady gaga's "little monsters" the gen before that, or "leave britney alone" if you want to go a generation earlier.

    Every generation since the bobby soxers has packaged up mediocre pop for teenage girls to scream at and rally round as it's easier than developing an actual personality.
    But she’s not mediocre. She writes genuinely good songs with cleverly sexy lyrics - and sings them herself. She wins Grammys for a reason

    That’s rare. It is much rarer now than it was 20-40 years ago but that’s a comment on the decline of popular music not a judgement of Ms Swift

    It's not rare at all. In terms of commercial success, going back from the 1970s, you have similar fandoms for Aretha Franklin, Donna Summer, Cyndi Lauper, Madonna, Mariah Carey, Britney Spears, Beyonce, Lady Gaga, Adele, Billie Eilish, etc.

    None of them are my cup of tea, but I understand why people like them. To suggest that Taylor Swift is somehow a cut above them, I don't get it. It's middle of the road pop aimed at young girls - a popular genre since the bobby soxers.
    I guess the criticism of somebody like Billie Ellish vs Swift, is that it is her brother in law that have a very large hand in writing all the songs, even if they are more interesting than Swift's.
    Meh. This has become a thread of a bunch of old men talking about what music teenage girls should like, so I will bow out on this thought.

    Taylor Swift is the kind of middle of the road pop you could imagine Patrick Bateman - reinvented as a twenty-something creative strategist working at an ad agency in shoreditch - murdering his colleagues to, shortly before he pops into a coffee shop on Redchurch street for a double espresso, listening to a bit of Ed Sheeran on his Bang and Wankoffson earbuds as he washes the blood off his hands in the toilet while waiting for his order.

    It's the banality of our deacde.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,489
    edited June 23
    I am a Swiftie because my other half is.

    Worse thing about this surgery was missing her concert at Anfield.

    Scotland fans, not such fans of Argentina now are you now?

    But Scotland may soon know what it feels like to be knocked out of an international tournament because of a penalty, you're becoming more like England every day.

    It was a penalty.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,324

    That looked like a penalty for Scotland.

    Not sure. The Scottish guy pulled the Hungarian over. 6 and 2 3s
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,970

    Andy_JS said:

    Don't know what "mid" means, and never knowingly listened to a Taylor Swift song.

    It just means distinctly average. The kind of thing teenage girls like.
    Not in this context. It means a female who is 6-7/10
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,705
    I reckon Taylor Swift would score more goals for Scotland.
  • Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Don't know what "mid" means, and never knowingly listened to a Taylor Swift song.

    It just means distinctly average. The kind of thing teenage girls like.
    Not in this context. It means a female who is 6-7/10
    I was the one that called her mid. So I know what I am talking about thank you very much.

    Also, as somebody who is actually young, I know what it means. So sod off.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,550

    That was a penalty, clear as day.

    I reckon not, Armstrong pulled him onto him.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,728

    To combine two of PB's favourite interests:

    Facebook is currently showing me a sponsored ad from Nigel Farage. It reads "Come and meet me on Monday 24th June in Newton Abbot. Book your tickets now!"

    For anyone who wonders about big tech knowing too much of our lives, I am relieved that Facebook (a) thinks I might be interested in seeing Nigel Farage (b) thinks I live within 150 miles of Newton Abbot.

    Thats because its AI saw you reading one of our correspondents updates from Newton Abbot and various posts about Fargle and made 5.

    Meanwhile its propping up the US stockmarket....
    Facebook is convinced it isn't wasting its time showing me adverts from the candidates in Penge. I don't think there os a seat in the country I know less well.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,970
    Scotland play football like wallpaper. It’s just there in the background. And it’s not even good wallpaper. Its wallpaper you put in the third guest room in the early 1990s
  • An artist I am much more pleased about doing well is RAYE who I have been following for a long time. She's fabulous.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,813
    edited June 23
    Leon said:

    Scotland play football like wallpaper. It’s just there in the background. And it’s not even good wallpaper. Its wallpaper you put in the third guest room in the early 1990s

    The sort of wallpaper Carrie Johnson would buy....
  • Perhaps Scotland will surprise on the upside
  • OnboardG1OnboardG1 Posts: 1,589
    Ten minutes of added time. Ooft.
This discussion has been closed.