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How to stem the rise of the far right – politicalbetting.com

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  • RattersRatters Posts: 1,074

    FFS loads of old guys opining about Taylor Swift. It’s like me saying I don’t see the appeal of Enrico Caruso.

    I mean, I get your point, but not everyone on here is old.

    I'm the same age as Swift. And continue to follow contemporary music as I did 20 years ago.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,471
    Scotland living dangerously.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,480
    Post! LOL....
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,341

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    Leon is 100% wrong, every time.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fantastic_Beasts_and_Where_to_Find_Them_(film)

    Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them is a 2016 fantasy film directed by David Yates and written by J. K. Rowling.

    Yep. Fair play. I’m wrong on this and you’re right. Looks like she has written movies

    If so she was misguided - I recall her saying that she turned down the opportunity to write the Harry Potter movies because she “knew she’d be no good at it”

    That said, the wiki entry you cite says the movie grossed a ton of money and won awards. I’ve not seen it so 🤷🏼‍♂️🤷🏼‍♂️
    What a dud

    Cost up to 200 Million USD and struggled badly taking 814 million USD.

    Doesn't mean they weren't utter trash films

    Doesn't mean they were either and you comment on her so called mental decline. Really ?

    Get a grip
    Why is it okay to comment on Joe Biden's mental decline but not JK Rowling's?

    Get a grip in Taz speak is "I don't agree but having nothing substantive to reply". Utter drivel.
    Because he's 90% in a vegetative state and she just has some opinions that you disagree with?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,813
    These two teams are shit.
  • OnboardG1OnboardG1 Posts: 1,589

    Post! LOL....

    Currently the best Scotland defender.
  • Pandemonium in the added time, my nerves are shot.
  • TweedledeeTweedledee Posts: 1,405
    OnboardG1 said:

    Tartan Army are in good voice, but fucking hell this game has big "Callie vs Thistle on a wet Saturday afternoon in November" vibes about it.

    No expert but isn't that just one team?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,970

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Don't know what "mid" means, and never knowingly listened to a Taylor Swift song.

    It just means distinctly average. The kind of thing teenage girls like.
    Not in this context. It means a female who is 6-7/10
    I was the one that called her mid. So I know what I am talking about thank you very much.

    Also, as somebody who is actually young, I know what it means. So sod off.
    But you have no clue. And also zero sense of humour. You’re like a neurodivergent beach donkey
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,471

    These two teams are shit.

    How would you describe the referee?
  • Because he's 90% in a vegetative state and she just has some opinions that you disagree with?

    No, I don't actually disagree with JK Rowling on much, I think she's been proven correct on gender as I've said.

    But I've followed her on Twitter for some time and something has gone wrong with her over time. Now she's backing Communist Party candidates.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,480

    Leon said:

    Scotland play football like wallpaper. It’s just there in the background. And it’s not even good wallpaper. Its wallpaper you put in the third guest room in the early 1990s

    The sort of wallpaper Carrie Johnson would buy....
    You could buy the Scottish team for a roll of it?
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,728

    Heathener said:

    FFS loads of old guys opining about Taylor Swift. It’s like me saying I don’t see the appeal of Enrico Caruso.

    Yes a lot of us brought up children over the last 15 yrs and Taylor has been a staple. Writes her own catchy songs, works incredibly hard, a great business mind.

    Re. JK Rowling, she fiddled with the early HP films to their detriment. Best leave a writer to her genre. Whenever authors meddle in film production it invariably ends badly.

    Leon’s comment that Victoria Starmer ‘must have been an absolute stunner once’ is pure perviness coming from a 62 yr old man. The kind that makes my toes curl.
    Strong "creepy uncle vibes" indeed
    At what age must men stop finding women attractive Horse? I don't think he's cracking on to her.
  • OnboardG1OnboardG1 Posts: 1,589
    edited June 23

    OnboardG1 said:

    Tartan Army are in good voice, but fucking hell this game has big "Callie vs Thistle on a wet Saturday afternoon in November" vibes about it.

    No expert but isn't that just one team?
    In my mind that's Partick Thistle v Callie Thistle but my brain is back in the early 2000s football wise.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,489

    These two teams are shit.

    It's like a shit version of England v Denmark.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,471
    Germany equalise v Switzerland.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163

    ...

    Leon said:

    Taylor Swift is mid.

    She’s mid now but she used to be extremely sexy and lush. She’s now in her 30s. People forget

    Also: she has written superb country pop-rock songs. She’s not imaginary. She’s genuinely good

    However I wonder how she will evolve. Her whole shtick is being the sexy girl talking about sex and being a neglected cheerleader… she can’t push that into her late 30s
    Over the top in her thirties? I am sure she will bear your comments in mind Grandad.
    Guys on politics forum tell successful billionaire singer how to run her career...

    FFS!
    Shush now. The men are talking.
    Blethering perhaps...
  • Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Don't know what "mid" means, and never knowingly listened to a Taylor Swift song.

    It just means distinctly average. The kind of thing teenage girls like.
    Not in this context. It means a female who is 6-7/10
    I was the one that called her mid. So I know what I am talking about thank you very much.

    Also, as somebody who is actually young, I know what it means. So sod off.
    But you have no clue. And also zero sense of humour. You’re like a neurodivergent beach donkey
    Oh I see the autism insult is back. Can we at least have some variety in your insults, you're boring me to death with this drivel - the fact people pay you to write is genuinely one of life's little mysteries.

    I am going to back to ignoring you now as I don't want to give your stupidity anymore oxygen, bye.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,480
    Piper in the Scottish crowd playing a lament. There's still 6 minutes to go....
  • UnpopularUnpopular Posts: 880

    kyf_100 said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Taylor Swift is mid.

    That is my opinion. Some artists who become big you can sort of see why e.g. Carrot top Sheeran with his cool loop pedal stuff and playing about a billion tiny gigs. Or the people who popularise a totally new genre e.g. Nirvana, Beatles, Stones.

    Taylor swift, seems like every other two a penny pop star, but is a billionaire with fans willing to pay crazy money to see her. Each to their own, but is beyond me.
    She can hold 90,000 people rapt, just her and a guitar, so she's doing something right.

    The Eras show is spectacular. A technical tour de force, but again it wouldn't work if nobody liked the songs.
    Yes exactly. Her songs are REALLY good - as straight up melodic catchy pop. She’s an excellent singer songwriter and she was very pretty and she’s still rather attractive

    However that doesn’t explain her enormous global success. The explanation for that is that people like her are now so rare. Music has declined badly. So a star who writes good songs who might once have had a nice career can now have an absurdly successful career by virtue of zero competition
    Meh, there is one in every generation.

    The taylor swift superfans are the people who were going mental for "queen bee" beyonce a few years ago, or lady gaga's "little monsters" the gen before that, or "leave britney alone" if you want to go a generation earlier.

    Every generation since the bobby soxers has packaged up mediocre pop for teenage girls to scream at and rally round as it's easier than developing an actual personality.
    Swift started in 2008 with Love Story (which I quite liked at the time too).
    She's been around an incredibly long time and dominated the 2010s and is dominating the 2020s too.

    Sure, her time will come but not quite yet.
    She basically spent as long at the top as Madonna did, and still doesn't look (yet) like losing her shine.
    Only when your girlish glow flickers just so, do they let you know it's hell on Earth to be Heavenly...
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,489

    Piper in the Scottish crowd playing a lament. There's still 6 minutes to go....

    Bring back the vuvuzela.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,970

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Don't know what "mid" means, and never knowingly listened to a Taylor Swift song.

    It just means distinctly average. The kind of thing teenage girls like.
    Not in this context. It means a female who is 6-7/10
    I was the one that called her mid. So I know what I am talking about thank you very much.

    Also, as somebody who is actually young, I know what it means. So sod off.
    But you have no clue. And also zero sense of humour. You’re like a neurodivergent beach donkey
    Oh I see the autism insult is back. Can we at least have some variety in your insults, you're boring me to death with this drivel - the fact people pay you to write is genuinely one of life's little mysteries.

    I am going to back to ignoring you now as I don't want to give your stupidity anymore oxygen, bye.
    Just try and be funny. ONCE

    It’s not much to ask
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    Andy_JS said:

    Don't know what "mid" means, and never knowingly listened to a Taylor Swift song.

    Well, given the technology at your disposal, both issues can be instantly rectified.
  • OnboardG1OnboardG1 Posts: 1,589

    Piper in the Scottish crowd playing a lament. There's still 6 minutes to go....

    Bring back the vuvuzela.
    BRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,034
    Cookie said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I just don't understand the global pheononeoononenm of Taylor Swift.

    I spent $300 on two terrible seats at the Rose Bowl, alongside 90,000 other people.

    Never again.
    Wife and daughters went to Wembley yesterday to see her. Now, the 9-14 demographic you would expect yo enkoy it - and they did, very very much - but my wife - who's enthusiasm for Taylor's songs is no more than mid level supportive Mum - also declared it genuinely one of the best nights out of her life. Taylor is very very very good at putting on a show.

    She's not my cup of tea. But that's fine, it's not aimed at me (the audience was 90% female). I like watching Half Man Half Biscuit in a small.club with 900 other fat bald middle aged men. (Natural contrarian - I get suspicious if anything I like gets too popular.) But fair play to her - she's clearly remarkably good at what she does. And she works eye-wateringly hard.
    She does: I went to the show with a friend who is a music industry lawyer. And he said that she's a complete workaholic, who is in every meeting, and has the final call on everything.

    Very few solo artists last a decade and a half at the top of their game. Even is she is not our cup of tea, she's done an incredible job.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,480

    These two teams are shit.

    Neither deserve to progress.

    But then, England....
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,970
    Oh ffs! Scotland.


    Ok this is now better than wallpaper. Cmon Scotland
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    An artist I am much more pleased about doing well is RAYE who I have been following for a long time. She's fabulous.

    Has she any connection with PAYE? If so I’m not a fan.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,486
    kyf_100 said:

    Leon said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Taylor Swift is mid.

    That is my opinion. Some artists who become big you can sort of see why e.g. Carrot top Sheeran with his cool loop pedal stuff and playing about a billion tiny gigs. Or the people who popularise a totally new genre e.g. Nirvana, Beatles, Stones.

    Taylor swift, seems like every other two a penny pop star, but is a billionaire with fans willing to pay crazy money to see her. Each to their own, but is beyond me.
    She can hold 90,000 people rapt, just her and a guitar, so she's doing something right.

    The Eras show is spectacular. A technical tour de force, but again it wouldn't work if nobody liked the songs.
    Yes exactly. Her songs are REALLY good - as straight up melodic catchy pop. She’s an excellent singer songwriter and she was very pretty and she’s still rather attractive

    However that doesn’t explain her enormous global success. The explanation for that is that people like her are now so rare. Music has declined badly. So a star who writes good songs who might once have had a nice career can now have an absurdly successful career by virtue of zero competition
    Meh, there is one in every generation.

    The taylor swift superfans are the people who were going mental for "queen bee" beyonce a few years ago, or lady gaga's "little monsters" the gen before that, or "leave britney alone" if you want to go a generation earlier.

    Every generation since the bobby soxers has packaged up mediocre pop for teenage girls to scream at and rally round as it's easier than developing an actual personality.
    But she’s not mediocre. She writes genuinely good songs with cleverly sexy lyrics - and sings them herself. She wins Grammys for a reason

    That’s rare. It is much rarer now than it was 20-40 years ago but that’s a comment on the decline of popular music not a judgement of Ms Swift

    It's not rare at all. In terms of commercial success, going back from the 1970s, you have similar fandoms for Aretha Franklin, Donna Summer, Cyndi Lauper, Madonna, Mariah Carey, Britney Spears, Beyonce, Lady Gaga, Adele, Billie Eilish, etc.

    None of them are my cup of tea, but I understand why people like them. To suggest that Taylor Swift is somehow a cut above them, I don't get it. It's middle of the road pop aimed at young girls - a popular genre since the bobby soxers.
    Any excuse to go back to Betjeman's 'Middlesex' and

    'Fair Elaine the bobby-soxer,
    Fresh-complexioned with Innoxa,'
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,734
    nico679 said:

    Betting Gate is no Partygate .

    It’s pretty low level stuff but just feeds into the narrative of the Tories lack of integrity and just thinking they can do whatever they like.

    A new bettingate twist from the Betfair forum, pointing out there were other markets in play. This is the graph for Rishi to be replaced as Conservative leader in the year 2024.

  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,728
    Heathener said:

    FFS loads of old guys opining about Taylor Swift. It’s like me saying I don’t see the appeal of Enrico Caruso.

    Yes a lot of us brought up children over the last 15 yrs and Taylor has been a staple. Writes her own catchy songs, works incredibly hard, a great business mind.

    Re. JK Rowling, she fiddled with the early HP films to their detriment. Best leave a writer to her genre. Whenever authors meddle in film production it invariably ends badly.

    Leon’s comment that Victoria Starmer ‘must have been an absolute stunner once’ is pure perviness coming from a 62 yr old man. The kind that makes my toes curl.
    I don't agree on writers and films. When is a film ever aa good as the book? When the screenwriter doesn't take absolute fucking liberties and sticks with the plot the author came up with. I don't know why screenwriters insist on buying a story and then rewriting it. It is never to the film's benefit.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,550

    These two teams are shit.

    It's like a shit version of England v Denmark.
    Without goals...
  • maxhmaxh Posts: 1,221
    Thanks for everyone's comments so far on the header - sorry if I missed responding to any I've been reading comments whilst trying to herd some wayward exam markers back on track after a weekend away.

    I was nervous posting it as (as Heathener said) its contentious and you are a pretty intelligent lot. I welcome the challenges -- hopefully its food for thought at least.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,324

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    Leon is 100% wrong, every time.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fantastic_Beasts_and_Where_to_Find_Them_(film)

    Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them is a 2016 fantasy film directed by David Yates and written by J. K. Rowling.

    Yep. Fair play. I’m wrong on this and you’re right. Looks like she has written movies

    If so she was misguided - I recall her saying that she turned down the opportunity to write the Harry Potter movies because she “knew she’d be no good at it”

    That said, the wiki entry you cite says the movie grossed a ton of money and won awards. I’ve not seen it so 🤷🏼‍♂️🤷🏼‍♂️
    What a dud

    Cost up to 200 Million USD and struggled badly taking 814 million USD.

    Doesn't mean they weren't utter trash films

    Doesn't mean they were either and you comment on her so called mental decline. Really ?

    Get a grip
    Why is it okay to comment on Joe Biden's mental decline but not JK Rowling's?

    Get a grip in Taz speak is "I don't agree but having nothing substantive to reply". Utter drivel.
    I have never made a comment about Biden so God knows what you are on about.

    The only drivel comes from you and your dribbling about JKRs so called mental decline.

    What do your windows taste of ?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,813
    I reckon these two teams could play 200 minutes and still not score.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,836
    edited June 23
    Goal Hungary in the final seconds
  • Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    Leon is 100% wrong, every time.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fantastic_Beasts_and_Where_to_Find_Them_(film)

    Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them is a 2016 fantasy film directed by David Yates and written by J. K. Rowling.

    Yep. Fair play. I’m wrong on this and you’re right. Looks like she has written movies

    If so she was misguided - I recall her saying that she turned down the opportunity to write the Harry Potter movies because she “knew she’d be no good at it”

    That said, the wiki entry you cite says the movie grossed a ton of money and won awards. I’ve not seen it so 🤷🏼‍♂️🤷🏼‍♂️
    What a dud

    Cost up to 200 Million USD and struggled badly taking 814 million USD.

    Doesn't mean they weren't utter trash films

    Doesn't mean they were either and you comment on her so called mental decline. Really ?

    Get a grip
    Why is it okay to comment on Joe Biden's mental decline but not JK Rowling's?

    Get a grip in Taz speak is "I don't agree but having nothing substantive to reply". Utter drivel.
    I have never made a comment about Biden so God knows what you are on about.

    The only drivel comes from you and your dribbling about JKRs so called mental decline.

    What do your windows taste of ?
    Have a good evening, Taz.
  • vinovino Posts: 169
    Thanks Vino! Hmmm...I think after Brexit, 'referendum' is probably too dirty a word. And I confess I don't know enough about the Swiss system. In general I wonder if we need to get away from the tyranny of the majority where we can. The Swiss may do this.

    Referendum is only a dirty word to 48% of the voting population so what you are saying is that people just have to accept laws that the majority are against - seems an incentive to vote right wing
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,471
    Shit.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,280
    Oops
  • eekeek Posts: 28,263
    At least someone scored - because this match has been dire....
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,550
    Brutal way to go out.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,489
    Clearly Hungary were more hungry for goals than Scotland.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,324
    YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS !!!!!!
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,705
    Football's a stupid game anyway. How's the cricket going?
  • OnboardG1OnboardG1 Posts: 1,589
    FUCKING HELL
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,280

    I reckon these two teams could play 200 minutes and still not score.

    Prophetic
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,970
    Oh that’s brutal

    Sympathies for Scotland
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,480
    They're goin' home, they're goin' home, they're goin', Scotland's goin' home....
  • TweedledeeTweedledee Posts: 1,405

    On the draw at 33/10 ecosse v hungarie. Exciting times.

    Fuck

  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,813
    Pro_Rata said:

    I reckon these two teams could play 200 minutes and still not score.

    Prophetic
    Thank you.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,324

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    Leon is 100% wrong, every time.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fantastic_Beasts_and_Where_to_Find_Them_(film)

    Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them is a 2016 fantasy film directed by David Yates and written by J. K. Rowling.

    Yep. Fair play. I’m wrong on this and you’re right. Looks like she has written movies

    If so she was misguided - I recall her saying that she turned down the opportunity to write the Harry Potter movies because she “knew she’d be no good at it”

    That said, the wiki entry you cite says the movie grossed a ton of money and won awards. I’ve not seen it so 🤷🏼‍♂️🤷🏼‍♂️
    What a dud

    Cost up to 200 Million USD and struggled badly taking 814 million USD.

    Doesn't mean they weren't utter trash films

    Doesn't mean they were either and you comment on her so called mental decline. Really ?

    Get a grip
    Why is it okay to comment on Joe Biden's mental decline but not JK Rowling's?

    Get a grip in Taz speak is "I don't agree but having nothing substantive to reply". Utter drivel.
    I have never made a comment about Biden so God knows what you are on about.

    The only drivel comes from you and your dribbling about JKRs so called mental decline.

    What do your windows taste of ?
    Have a good evening, Taz.
    Better than you and its just got a lot better
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,471
    Too many replays as usual, stopping us viewing the live action.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,886
    My first boss in the food industry, a massive Celtic fan always used to tell me that he had zero interest in national football. "Only the hoops" he would say.

    Probably because of stuff like this...
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,020
    darkage said:

    A key problem facing the advanced western countries is the difficulty in getting anything done due to the legal/bureaucratic state. The solution to every problem is more regulations and process, all of which is inherently imperfect and contradictory. There was a realisation of the problems this was creating in the 1980's but no lasting or meaningful answer was ever settled on. So now most work in the economy is connected to the implementation of process or regulation rather than being productive or creative in its own right.

    The conservatives had 14 years and made the situation I have described above worse. Labour will continue this trend. But the whole system needs rapid disruption - perhaps this is inevitable as the rest of the world adapts faster to technological innovation. It feels to me like the centrist parties (IE all the main parties) are just part of the old world and they will be transformed or swept away by something new, it may be called 'far right' but it is not necessarily correct to view it this way.

    https://www1.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2024/02/04/the-state-of-process-the-process-state/
    Omnium said:

    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    JK Rowling endorses Communist Party candidates.

    https://x.com/jk_rowling/status/1804592902167019897

    JK Rowling is, of course, batshit insane.

    Plenty of people like that, just not many with a million+ followers on social media.

    I pay her the same attention I pay any drooling lunatic at closing time in any local pub.
    I am sure she would think the same of you if she even knew you existed.
    If I were a billionaire, I would probably find better ways to spend my days than sitting on social media drumming up hatred for oppressed minorities.

    But hey-ho.

    I've never watched or read any of her fiction, the only reason I know of her existence is because she's a massive [expletive deleted].
    This posting shows you might actually be a better writer of fiction than she is.
    Mr Tyndall, you're mad. JK Rowling is a wonderful writer. She absolutely shines.
    It is perfectly possible to be objectively out to lunch, do harm and do good.

    JKR made reading fashionable for a large number of children. I personally knew of families from the no-books at home lifestyle who ended up buying their children bookshelves. First thing on them was the much loved and battered set of…
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,813
    edited June 23
    He even mis-kicked into the goal. Sums up quality of the game.
  • Taz said:

    Better than you and its just got a lot better

    Great.
  • OnboardG1OnboardG1 Posts: 1,589
    We didn't deserve to win that, but we didn't deserve to go out like that either. What an utter disaster.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,734
    kyf_100 said:

    Leon said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Taylor Swift is mid.

    That is my opinion. Some artists who become big you can sort of see why e.g. Carrot top Sheeran with his cool loop pedal stuff and playing about a billion tiny gigs. Or the people who popularise a totally new genre e.g. Nirvana, Beatles, Stones.

    Taylor swift, seems like every other two a penny pop star, but is a billionaire with fans willing to pay crazy money to see her. Each to their own, but is beyond me.
    She can hold 90,000 people rapt, just her and a guitar, so she's doing something right.

    The Eras show is spectacular. A technical tour de force, but again it wouldn't work if nobody liked the songs.
    Yes exactly. Her songs are REALLY good - as straight up melodic catchy pop. She’s an excellent singer songwriter and she was very pretty and she’s still rather attractive

    However that doesn’t explain her enormous global success. The explanation for that is that people like her are now so rare. Music has declined badly. So a star who writes good songs who might once have had a nice career can now have an absurdly successful career by virtue of zero competition
    Meh, there is one in every generation.

    The taylor swift superfans are the people who were going mental for "queen bee" beyonce a few years ago, or lady gaga's "little monsters" the gen before that, or "leave britney alone" if you want to go a generation earlier.

    Every generation since the bobby soxers has packaged up mediocre pop for teenage girls to scream at and rally round as it's easier than developing an actual personality.
    But she’s not mediocre. She writes genuinely good songs with cleverly sexy lyrics - and sings them herself. She wins Grammys for a reason

    That’s rare. It is much rarer now than it was 20-40 years ago but that’s a comment on the decline of popular music not a judgement of Ms Swift

    It's not rare at all. In terms of commercial success, going back from the 1970s, you have similar fandoms for Aretha Franklin, Donna Summer, Cyndi Lauper, Madonna, Mariah Carey, Britney Spears, Beyonce, Lady Gaga, Adele, Billie Eilish, etc.

    None of them are my cup of tea, but I understand why people like them. To suggest that Taylor Swift is somehow a cut above them, I don't get it. It's middle of the road pop aimed at young girls - a popular genre since the bobby soxers.
    Rob Brydon relays George Michael on touring to young lady fans:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9v67dlaahE&t=478s
  • TweedledeeTweedledee Posts: 1,405

    nico679 said:

    Betting Gate is no Partygate .

    It’s pretty low level stuff but just feeds into the narrative of the Tories lack of integrity and just thinking they can do whatever they like.

    A new bettingate twist from the Betfair forum, pointing out there were other markets in play. This is the graph for Rishi to be replaced as Conservative leader in the year 2024.

    Wagergate FFS
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,970
    To be fair Scotland didn’t deserve that
  • UnpopularUnpopular Posts: 880
    rcs1000 said:

    Cookie said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I just don't understand the global pheononeoononenm of Taylor Swift.

    I spent $300 on two terrible seats at the Rose Bowl, alongside 90,000 other people.

    Never again.
    Wife and daughters went to Wembley yesterday to see her. Now, the 9-14 demographic you would expect yo enkoy it - and they did, very very much - but my wife - who's enthusiasm for Taylor's songs is no more than mid level supportive Mum - also declared it genuinely one of the best nights out of her life. Taylor is very very very good at putting on a show.

    She's not my cup of tea. But that's fine, it's not aimed at me (the audience was 90% female). I like watching Half Man Half Biscuit in a small.club with 900 other fat bald middle aged men. (Natural contrarian - I get suspicious if anything I like gets too popular.) But fair play to her - she's clearly remarkably good at what she does. And she works eye-wateringly hard.
    She does: I went to the show with a friend who is a music industry lawyer. And he said that she's a complete workaholic, who is in every meeting, and has the final call on everything.

    Very few solo artists last a decade and a half at the top of their game. Even is she is not our cup of tea, she's done an incredible job.
    Yep, to me what sets her apart is that she's the best at what she does. While she is my cup of tea I can also appreciate how she has made herself into the most successful artist of the day. It's not an accident.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    nico679 said:

    Betting Gate is no Partygate .

    It’s pretty low level stuff but just feeds into the narrative of the Tories lack of integrity and just thinking they can do whatever they like.

    A new bettingate twist from the Betfair forum, pointing out there were other markets in play. This is the graph for Rishi to be replaced as Conservative leader in the year 2024.

    Wagergate FFS
    Fluttergate
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,152
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,728
    Leon said:

    Oh that’s brutal

    Sympathies for Scotland

    Great goal. But in Scotland's defence it was made possible by Scotland, rightly going all out for attack.
    Mixed feelings. I'm half Scottish, but my youngest has mysteriously, arbitrarily and with the ferocity of a true ADHDer, attached great emotional importance to the progress of Hungary in the tournament amd I've already had to pick her up twice.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,471

    I just don't understand the global pheononeoononenm of Taylor Swift.

    Well I remember when Jason Donovan was the second-biggest star in the country after Kylie Minogue, something that seems slightly inexplicable in hindsight. 😊
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,480
    tlg86 said:
    And he's taken out an iron....
  • OnboardG1OnboardG1 Posts: 1,589
    Leon said:

    To be fair Scotland didn’t deserve that

    In either sense. What a rubbish campaign.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,020

    darkage said:

    A key problem facing the advanced western countries is the difficulty in getting anything done due to the legal/bureaucratic state. The solution to every problem is more regulations and process, all of which is inherently imperfect and contradictory. There was a realisation of the problems this was creating in the 1980's but no lasting or meaningful answer was ever settled on. So now most work in the economy is connected to the implementation of process or regulation rather than being productive or creative in its own right.

    The conservatives had 14 years and made the situation I have described above worse. Labour will continue this trend. But the whole system needs rapid disruption - perhaps this is inevitable as the rest of the world adapts faster to technological innovation. It feels to me like the centrist parties (IE all the main parties) are just part of the old world and they will be transformed or swept away by something new, it may be called 'far right' but it is not necessarily correct to view it this way.

    This is most incisive analysis.

    In my own industry I have watched over nearly 40 years the situation has gone from 90% of the cost /time is for doing the work / 10% for "getting permission" and documenting the work, to the exact opposite.

    The standards are more and more complex (and often conflict with each other) to the extent that you almost need to be a lawyer to interpret the correct course of action.

    Compare and contrast the cost of building a mileof motorway in the 1970s with the cost of doing so now (exponentially greater). This is why.


    And again… https://www1.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2024/02/04/the-state-of-process-the-process-state/
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,954
    I was mentally prepared for Scotland not to progress.

    I was not ready for that
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,597

    On the draw at 33/10 ecosse v hungarie. Exciting times.

    Fuck

    Them's the breaks.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,264
    Scott_xP said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Taylor Swift is mid.

    That is my opinion. Some artists who become big you can sort of see why e.g. Carrot top Sheeran with his cool loop pedal stuff and playing about a billion tiny gigs. Or the people who popularise a totally new genre e.g. Nirvana, Beatles, Stones.

    Taylor swift, seems like every other two a penny pop star, but is a billionaire with fans willing to pay crazy money to see her. Each to their own, but is beyond me.
    She can hold 90,000 people rapt, just her and a guitar, so she's doing something right.

    The Eras show is spectacular. A technical tour de force, but again it wouldn't work if nobody liked the songs.
    Yes exactly. Her songs are REALLY good - as straight up melodic catchy pop. She’s an excellent singer songwriter and she was very pretty and she’s still rather attractive

    However that doesn’t explain her enormous global success. The explanation for that is that people like her are now so rare. Music has declined badly. So a star who writes good songs who might once have had a nice career can now have an absurdly successful career by virtue of zero competition
    Meh, there is one in every generation.

    The taylor swift superfans are the people who were going mental for "queen bee" beyonce a few years ago, or lady gaga's "little monsters" the gen before that, or "leave britney alone" if you want to go a generation earlier.

    Every generation since the bobby soxers has packaged up mediocre pop for teenage girls to scream at and rally round as it's easier than developing an actual personality.
    No, I don't think that is true. Taylor Swift is the first billionaire musician made from music alone. She is much much bigger than pop stars over the past 10-15 years and seems to only get bigger and bigger rather than fading after the first couple of albums (like most do). Why that is, I don't know.
    No she isn't, Madonna became a billionaire 10 years ago. Embarrassing the way grown adults fawn over this girl.
    The comparison with Madonna is interesting.

    For all Ms Swift's talents as a songwriter and performer, she can't dance.

    Watch Madonna at Live Aid in Philadelphia. The dance routine is 'off the charts'
    As is her singing pitch.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,341
    Anyway, the way to do the music game is Sade - come out with an album and a massive tour every 10 years or so, looking stunning and sounding great, and the rest of the time live in mysterious obscurity on a pig farm.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=U-SHfpm5Bxk&pp=ygUEU2FkZQ==
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,310
    Cookie said:

    Heathener said:

    FFS loads of old guys opining about Taylor Swift. It’s like me saying I don’t see the appeal of Enrico Caruso.

    Yes a lot of us brought up children over the last 15 yrs and Taylor has been a staple. Writes her own catchy songs, works incredibly hard, a great business mind.

    Re. JK Rowling, she fiddled with the early HP films to their detriment. Best leave a writer to her genre. Whenever authors meddle in film production it invariably ends badly.

    Leon’s comment that Victoria Starmer ‘must have been an absolute stunner once’ is pure perviness coming from a 62 yr old man. The kind that makes my toes curl.
    Strong "creepy uncle vibes" indeed
    At what age must men stop finding women attractive Horse? I don't think he's cracking on to her.
    Leon not demonstrating creepy uncle vibes. Are you new here?
  • TheValiantTheValiant Posts: 1,874
    Leon said:

    To be fair Scotland didn’t deserve that

    No, indeed not, but as I've just heard on the BBC - had they drawn, it would've then been some vague hope they might've finished in the top 4 of the 3rd placed teams, which would've been cruelly dashed on Wednesday night when results didn't go their way.

    Scotland had to win tonight, and they couldn't even score. Just not good enough.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,734
    tlg86 said:
    Security guards slamming protestors into the ground can't be good for the playing surface.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,264
    Andy_JS said:

    Scotland living dangerously.

    They've elected Alba?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,489
    Scott_xP said:

    I was mentally prepared for Scotland not to progress.

    I was not ready for that

    https://x.com/willglloyd/status/1804982933008326930
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,376
    edited June 23
    Not really relevant for anything but I had a discussion over dinner with my 7 year old son about Plato's ship. Asked him what he thought about it and he came up with a good observation/critique; namely that the people who are popular need to work with the people who know how things work to get things done. Pretty obvious but I don't think I ever thought of that before.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,341

    Scott_xP said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Taylor Swift is mid.

    That is my opinion. Some artists who become big you can sort of see why e.g. Carrot top Sheeran with his cool loop pedal stuff and playing about a billion tiny gigs. Or the people who popularise a totally new genre e.g. Nirvana, Beatles, Stones.

    Taylor swift, seems like every other two a penny pop star, but is a billionaire with fans willing to pay crazy money to see her. Each to their own, but is beyond me.
    She can hold 90,000 people rapt, just her and a guitar, so she's doing something right.

    The Eras show is spectacular. A technical tour de force, but again it wouldn't work if nobody liked the songs.
    Yes exactly. Her songs are REALLY good - as straight up melodic catchy pop. She’s an excellent singer songwriter and she was very pretty and she’s still rather attractive

    However that doesn’t explain her enormous global success. The explanation for that is that people like her are now so rare. Music has declined badly. So a star who writes good songs who might once have had a nice career can now have an absurdly successful career by virtue of zero competition
    Meh, there is one in every generation.

    The taylor swift superfans are the people who were going mental for "queen bee" beyonce a few years ago, or lady gaga's "little monsters" the gen before that, or "leave britney alone" if you want to go a generation earlier.

    Every generation since the bobby soxers has packaged up mediocre pop for teenage girls to scream at and rally round as it's easier than developing an actual personality.
    No, I don't think that is true. Taylor Swift is the first billionaire musician made from music alone. She is much much bigger than pop stars over the past 10-15 years and seems to only get bigger and bigger rather than fading after the first couple of albums (like most do). Why that is, I don't know.
    No she isn't, Madonna became a billionaire 10 years ago. Embarrassing the way grown adults fawn over this girl.
    The comparison with Madonna is interesting.

    For all Ms Swift's talents as a songwriter and performer, she can't dance.

    Watch Madonna at Live Aid in Philadelphia. The dance routine is 'off the charts'
    As is her singing pitch.
    Saucer of milk for table 2. :lol:
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,471
    edited June 23
    edit
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,907
    Cookie said:

    Heathener said:

    FFS loads of old guys opining about Taylor Swift. It’s like me saying I don’t see the appeal of Enrico Caruso.

    Yes a lot of us brought up children over the last 15 yrs and Taylor has been a staple. Writes her own catchy songs, works incredibly hard, a great business mind.

    Re. JK Rowling, she fiddled with the early HP films to their detriment. Best leave a writer to her genre. Whenever authors meddle in film production it invariably ends badly.

    Leon’s comment that Victoria Starmer ‘must have been an absolute stunner once’ is pure perviness coming from a 62 yr old man. The kind that makes my toes curl.
    I don't agree on writers and films. When is a film ever aa good as the book? When the screenwriter doesn't take absolute fucking liberties and sticks with the plot the author came up with. I don't know why screenwriters insist on buying a story and then rewriting it. It is never to the film's benefit.
    Pretty well every Phillip K Dick adaptation says you’re wrong.
    And they are not a few.
  • UnpopularUnpopular Posts: 880
    Scotland going home to think again.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,280

    Cookie said:

    Heathener said:

    FFS loads of old guys opining about Taylor Swift. It’s like me saying I don’t see the appeal of Enrico Caruso.

    Yes a lot of us brought up children over the last 15 yrs and Taylor has been a staple. Writes her own catchy songs, works incredibly hard, a great business mind.

    Re. JK Rowling, she fiddled with the early HP films to their detriment. Best leave a writer to her genre. Whenever authors meddle in film production it invariably ends badly.

    Leon’s comment that Victoria Starmer ‘must have been an absolute stunner once’ is pure perviness coming from a 62 yr old man. The kind that makes my toes curl.
    Strong "creepy uncle vibes" indeed
    At what age must men stop finding women attractive Horse? I don't think he's cracking on to her.
    Leon not demonstrating creepy uncle vibes. Are you new here?
    Creepy uncle?

    You do know Victoria Starmer is 61?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,734
    Andy_JS said:

    I just don't understand the global pheononeoononenm of Taylor Swift.

    Well I remember when Jason Donovan was the second-biggest star in the country after Kylie Minogue, something that seems slightly inexplicable in hindsight. 😊
    And a rumoured conspiracy to tie up pressing plants in order to give Cliff the Christmas Number One when it should have been Kylie and Jason.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,341
    Andy_JS said:

    Anyway, the way to do the music game is Sade - come out with an album and a massive tour every 10 years or so, looking stunning and sounding great, and the rest of the time live in mysterious obscurity on a pig farm.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=U-SHfpm5Bxk&pp=ygUEU2FkZQ==

    Leon squatted with Sade in the early 80s in a Peckham bedsit, or have I mis-recalled?
    Lucky man.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,152
    For the most part, I think the expansion of the Euros to 24 teams has been a bad thing. But there are some plus sides.
  • We will be releasing our first @focaldataHQ MRP results tomorrow around 3pm for #GE2024 https://x.com/JamesKanag/status/1804980409941315942
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,705
    OnboardG1 said:

    Leon said:

    To be fair Scotland didn’t deserve that

    In either sense. What a rubbish campaign.
    It was every Scotland campaign I can ever remember - rubbish first game, solid but unspectacular second game that puts them in a position that they at least have some control over their own destiny, rubbish third game that dashes hopes again. It would've been fair punishment for them to have drawn and then gone out on the basis of 2 points not being enough.

    The small consolation is that we are more regularly having these campaigns at all and not just missing out the tournament entirely.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,842

    stodge said:

    stodge said:

    Omnium said:

    Taz said:

    Talking of scapegoating, what about the scapegoating of working class communities for whom none of this has worked and for whom labour just took for granted as they always voted for them and the Tories did sod all to level up. Communities that lose their brightest and best to London and the South where the jobs and opportunities are. Communities that, under both parties, saw the good paying jobs in industry exported and replace with call centres and distribution hubs. The posho contingency here has not got a clue how many people just exist in this country.

    You see some of the wailing about Brexit, like Eric idle today whining because he cannot go to France for more than 90 days, something that really affects precious few people to see the level of detachment.

    I did not vote Brexit and would not vote reform but I absolutely get why people did/do and the failure of mainstream politicians to engage with these communities but just tell them what they should think has been telling.

    Any argument is a little undermined by this "Communities that lose their brightest and best to London and the South where the jobs and opportunities are."
    This is where the paradox with Reform is at its most stark - Farage is an unreconstructed Thatcherite. He wants tax cuts, a la Truss, for the wealthy and is signed up to all this supply-side Lafferite nonsense. He also wants spending cuts though he rarely says it out loud wittering on about "woke" and "diversity".

    Reform members and voters, on the other hand, are in a very different place. They signed up to the Conservative Levelling Up aganda which promised more money and resources for the north and midlands. Sunak and the Conservatives betrayed this in a nanosecond with the scrapping of HS2 north of Birmingham - a huge middle finger to the north.

    Reform members and voters want the money and resources spent on the WWC in the north, not "wasted" as they would see it on the metropolitan liberal south. What won the north and midlands (the "Red Wall") wasn't Brexit - it was the sale of council houses. The sons and daughters of the original council house buyers inheriting property, becoming home owners and becoming Conservatives.

    Labour neglected the north and didn't see or understand the impact of this huge change from rental to ownership - the Conservatives betrayed the north via the failure of HS2 and Levelling Up and the home owners are now left with big mortgages.

    Reform's paradox will render it completely unable to meet the promises of their members and voters. The best hope for Reform oddly enough is to ditch Farage completely.
    I don't see the contradiction that you do. The North didn’t grow rich on Southern taxes building it tramways and municipal sculptures; it grew rich because people had factories and business and they grew. Infrastructure followed, again built privately. That's what Reform want to do - get the state off peoples' backs, so that once again, running an actual business is doable in this country. That's actual 'levelling up'.
    I confess I've not read the Reform manifesto in detail but that doesn't sound like the Reform minded voter. They simply want what they should consider a fair slice of the national cake spent in the poorer areas. That was a key aspect of Levelling Up - the re-direction of resources as well a the prioritisation on infrastructure.

    It's not just about running a business and to be controversial, given how many businesses fail, perhaps it should be more about helping people run businesses by showing them how to run businesses.
    It has nothing to do with being shown how to run a business. Energy in this country is double what it is in the US. Taxes are through the roof. The Government hikes the minimum wage every time it wants a free popularity boost. Net Zero is busy nailing the coffin shut. How can we compete on those terms?

    There isn't the environment to do business in this country. I made a blue sky suggestion at work that we should build a garment factory in the UK and was laughed out of the room.

    I think you'll find the voters Reform is targeting understand this completely and are a lot more streetwise than you are giving them credit for.
    I'm sure that "insight" is found in supporters of all parties and none - it's not exclusive to Reform who can express the anger but seem to have no more answer than anyone else.

    I seem, Budget after Budget, to have heard Chancellor after Chancellor claiming they are helping business (especially SMEs) and yet it's never enough. Banks used to fight for local SME accounts - perhaps they don't any longer.

    I appreciate it's impossible to square the circle between demands on the public finances (and that includes the armed forces as much as it does the NHS) and the ability of the economy to generate the growth needed to sustain that demand.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,715
    Taz said:

    Carnyx said:


    Taz said:

    I don't get Taylor Swift mania. She isn't Kylie, so what's the fuss about?

    Kylie is massively overrated AFAIC. She is no Debbie Harry
    Debbie Harry is no Clare Grogan.
    Just waiting for a PBer to complain from personal experience that neither is Sarah Bernhardt.
    Grogan is more well know for Red Dwarf than her singing career/
    No: Gregory's Girl.
  • OnboardG1OnboardG1 Posts: 1,589
    My last comment before I go indulge in some traditional alcoholism:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCtPBFHKSNg
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,264
    Pro_Rata said:

    Cookie said:

    Heathener said:

    FFS loads of old guys opining about Taylor Swift. It’s like me saying I don’t see the appeal of Enrico Caruso.

    Yes a lot of us brought up children over the last 15 yrs and Taylor has been a staple. Writes her own catchy songs, works incredibly hard, a great business mind.

    Re. JK Rowling, she fiddled with the early HP films to their detriment. Best leave a writer to her genre. Whenever authors meddle in film production it invariably ends badly.

    Leon’s comment that Victoria Starmer ‘must have been an absolute stunner once’ is pure perviness coming from a 62 yr old man. The kind that makes my toes curl.
    Strong "creepy uncle vibes" indeed
    At what age must men stop finding women attractive Horse? I don't think he's cracking on to her.
    Leon not demonstrating creepy uncle vibes. Are you new here?
    Creepy uncle?

    You do know Victoria Starmer is 61?
    Too young for Macron.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,489
    Every time you see a replay it is a penalty.
  • Big week coming. We will have an @IpsosUK voting intention poll out midweek. Exact timing tbc. One not to miss 👀 🔜

    https://x.com/keiranpedley/status/1804984880868061327
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,907

    Every time you see a replay it is a penalty.

    Is that why the ref didn’t take a look ?
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,152

    Every time you see a replay it is a penalty.

    I disagree. The Scotland player is going away from the ball. I think the Hungary player is trying to get round him and has a right to be where he is (compare with a pen in the Man City v Wolves game a few months ago).
This discussion has been closed.