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Understanding the exit poll – politicalbetting.com

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  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,861
    At the last election, I was standing at a polling station with our candidate, and there was an exit poller in attendance. And, no, he didn’t disclose his findings.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,557
    Sean_F said:

    In terms of whether the Tories claw their way back, we should know sooner than July 4th. If the crossover headlines haven't scared the core back to voting certainty by later next week they ain't coming back at all.

    Either Reform need to come back to the Conservatives. Or, they have to kill them off. The worst result is the right getting 18% each, and 30 seats between them.
    Your prior instinct was right. There is no saving the Tories from these awful public school wets and their dreadful hangers on. They will always be socially scared of doing anything right wing. Unlike Thatcher

    The Tories HAVE to die - or be forced into submission and merger - and this is our best chance of killing them off in a century
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,514
    Hillary into 30 for Dem nomination.......madness
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,557
    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    I don’t think the Tories are coming back this time

    One seat’s enough.
    It’s just £10,000. You work in Dubai. No biggie
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,783
    Sandpit said:

    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    The good thing about the exit poll is it doesn't have to worry about Don't Knows and Won't Votes or Prefer Not to Say or whatever.It should be accurate on that basis. The 2019 exit poll was effectively an MRP - a forecast of seats based on the poll.

    It underestinated Labour and overestimated both Conservative and SNP seats.

    Anyway, of far greater import, I can now announce the REAL REASON Sunak called a General Election for July 4th.

    This will be the fourth successive GE where I will be voting by post as Mrs Stodge and I are on holiday on Polling Day.

    In 2015, we were in Las Vegas, in 2017 Zante, in 2019 Tenerife and this time the Isle of Man.

    That’s quite the impressive record of dodging election days!
    More through luck than judgement as far as 2017, 2019 and now are concerned. The 2015 election was well signposted but Mrs Stodge and I needed a holiday after a big house renovation and the Palazzo seemed a good place to spend election night (or rather late afternoon and evening).
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,390
    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    I don’t think the Tories are coming back this time

    One seat’s enough.
    It would be hilarious if that single seat was Clacton!
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,190

    Hillary into 30 for Dem nomination.......madness

    The first debate is on June 27th, well before the convention. I’m still not convinced the Dems don’t swap Biden out if he turns up clearly not all with it.

    But if they do swap him out, just about the worst person imaginable to replace him is Hillary Clinton.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,198

    Ben Riley-Smith
    @benrileysmith
    NEW

    Labour is now explicitly ruling out putting Capital Gains Tax on people’s main homes.

    Labour spokesman: “No. Labour will not introduce capital gains taxes on primary residences. It’s a bad idea.”

    ===

    Of course they are. It is electoral suicide.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,557
    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    I don’t think the Tories are coming back this time

    If the Conservatives are outpolled by Reform, it is the end, like Labour v Liberals in 1924.
    Let’s hope so

  • AlsoLeiAlsoLei Posts: 1,415

    Party election broadcast by Reform is just a screenshot saying “Britain is Broken. Britain Needs Reform.
    No-ones saying anything, no verbals.

    This is the PPB that Farage was claiming was so shocking that he was amazed to get past "compliance"!

    The man's an idiot. Perhaps the least-watched PPB in history?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,728

    At the last election, I was standing at a polling station with our candidate, and there was an exit poller in attendance. And, no, he didn’t disclose his findings.

    He couldn't, if it was the official BBC one, with a secret ballot
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,693
    edited June 14
    If the Tories do merge/get swallowed by Reform I suppose you could get the Conservative name back. The wonderfully paradoxical Conservative Reform Party?

    Only problem is the initials for that are CRP…
  • Nunu5Nunu5 Posts: 962
    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    I don’t think the Tories are coming back this time

    One seat’s enough.
    It would be hilarious if that single seat was Clacton!
    I can see a scenario where Reform win a dozen or so seats but lose in Clacton.
    I don't think that is actually Reforms best seat
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,557
    AlsoLei said:

    Party election broadcast by Reform is just a screenshot saying “Britain is Broken. Britain Needs Reform.
    No-ones saying anything, no verbals.

    This is the PPB that Farage was claiming was so shocking that he was amazed to get past "compliance"!

    The man's an idiot. Perhaps the least-watched PPB in history?
    He was joking. Ffs
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,514
    Sandpit said:

    Hillary into 30 for Dem nomination.......madness

    The first debate is on June 27th, well before the convention. I’m still not convinced the Dems don’t swap Biden out if he turns up clearly not all with it.

    But if they do swap him out, just about the worst person imaginable to replace him is Hillary Clinton.
    This shadowy group of people who can swap him out simply doesn't exist except in the minds of people who watch and follow too much MAGA.

    Biden can't get pushed out, if he withdraws the nominee will be Harris.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,037
    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    I don’t think the Tories are coming back this time

    If the Conservatives are outpolled by Reform, it is the end, like Labour v Liberals in 1924.
    If they are neck and neck polling wise the 20 seats Reform missed might be the difference
  • The recent presentation at the British Polling Council gave details of the exit poll methodology

    https://www.britishpollingcouncil.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2024/06/LSE-BPC-Shedding-Light-on-the-General-Election-Final-v3.pdf
    • Fieldwork by Ipsos
    • Analysis - John Curtis, Steve Fisher, Jouni Kuda, Jon Mellon, Rob Ford, Patrick English, Albert Ward
    • Around 24,000 respondents in 130 polling stations
    • Same polling stations as in 2019
    • Analyse change in party vote share in each location
    • Estimate regression models based on constituency characteristics
    • Apply model to all constituencies to obtain predicted vote share for each constituency
    • Convert predicted vote share into estimated probability party wins each constituency
    • Exit poll prediction is sum of estimated probabilities for each constituency
    I would have thought that the points of uncertainty would be
    1. Are the polling stations representative? Given the significant change in the political world, the polling stations may not be as useful in a normal election with small changes. If there are uniform changes throughout the UK it may not matter, but if the changes are localised and variable it makes it more difficult. This suggests that there may be greater challenges predicting the smaller parties.
    2. Is the regression model fit for purpose?
    3. They identify the change in constituencies, and changes in polling stations as new issues.
    The methodology is proven and mostly unchanged as is the team.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,198
    Sandpit said:

    Hillary into 30 for Dem nomination.......madness

    The first debate is on June 27th, well before the convention. I’m still not convinced the Dems don’t swap Biden out if he turns up clearly not all with it.

    But if they do swap him out, just about the worst person imaginable to replace him is Hillary Clinton.
    I'm at least green on that. Madness that it would be.

    If Biden falls pls let it be Shapiro or Buttigieg.
  • TweedledeeTweedledee Posts: 1,405
    boulay said:

    Heathener said:

    boulay said:

    Heathener said:



    Carnyx said:

    Heathener said:

    Heathener said:

    Meanwhile, I have been 'exit polled’. It was in 2015 when I had just voted for Cameron’s Conservatives (@TSE take note!).

    And there WAS a man outside with a clipboard asking how I had just voted. It was part of the official exit poll - he showed me the ID.

    (And, no, his address wasn’t in Ibadan ;) )

    I guess they've refined their techniques since then. Continuous improvement is a good attitude we could all usefully adopt.

    But you have to admit to possible error, which people often find difficult.
    Yes indeed.

    I was registered at the time in Norfolk and unbeknown to me that particularly polling station is on the exit poll roster. IIRC they sampled every 10th person leaving the polling station or something like that (I asked them ‘why me?’). Anyway it was all official and I felt quite excited at being part of the famous 10pm tally.

    I wouldn’t bet against Curtice and team either!

    But I would note that they have their work cut out this time because there could be more tactical voting than ever before and likely some curious anomalous swings going on.
    Pleasant interview with Sir J here this very afternoon, raising the same issue.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/jun/14/elections-guru-john-curtice-exit-polls
    Curtice sounds like a lovely chap. And the son of a carpenter (has a certain historical ring to it).

    I quite like this ‘my dad was a X, Y, Z’ fad at the moment, but it’s good to see his mum getting a mention: market researcher.

    Nice article. Thank you for linking it.

    xx
    What your father did is surely less important than how they were. Not going to say what mine did but he was a magnificent man, loving, funny, gave shedloads to charity but more importantly gave his time to people who needed help. I remember being in a car with him when I was a fit and healthy 21 year old and we saw a motorcyclist hit by a car at a junction and I swear I could not have acted and run over to help faster than my father did, stopped the car and just ran out to help the kid.

    He would have been him if he had been a milkman, an accountant or a king.

    So the whole “my father was a toolmaker” stuff is irrelevant - there have been arsehole toolmakers and arsehole people with other jobs.
    +1

    What a lovely man he sounded. Did the kid make it? :(

    Footie time for me now.

    xx
    The kid sadly didn’t make it, in his hurry to help him my father forgot to put the car in neutral and the handbrake on and it kept going and ran the guy over. Sad times. Only joking, yes he did.

    Pedantically leaving the car in gear, or park if automatic, would have saved the day.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,557

    Sandpit said:

    Hillary into 30 for Dem nomination.......madness

    The first debate is on June 27th, well before the convention. I’m still not convinced the Dems don’t swap Biden out if he turns up clearly not all with it.

    But if they do swap him out, just about the worst person imaginable to replace him is Hillary Clinton.
    This shadowy group of people who can swap him out simply doesn't exist except in the minds of people who watch and follow too much MAGA.

    Biden can't get pushed out, if he withdraws the nominee will be Harris.
    But Harris would now be a better bet than Biden I reckon. She can at least walk
  • AlsoLeiAlsoLei Posts: 1,415

    Sean_F said:

    In terms of whether the Tories claw their way back, we should know sooner than July 4th. If the crossover headlines haven't scared the core back to voting certainty by later next week they ain't coming back at all.

    Either Reform need to come back to the Conservatives. Or, they have to kill them off. The worst result is the right getting 18% each, and 30 seats between them.
    https://x.com/Callum_L_Hunter/status/1801651287273992321?s=19
    That suggests Farage won't convince the core older vote so I think it's Con eat Ref or they both go down
    And talking about dismantling the NHS during the debates can't possibly have gone down well with older voters, I'd have thought....
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,190
    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Hillary into 30 for Dem nomination.......madness

    The first debate is on June 27th, well before the convention. I’m still not convinced the Dems don’t swap Biden out if he turns up clearly not all with it.

    But if they do swap him out, just about the worst person imaginable to replace him is Hillary Clinton.
    This shadowy group of people who can swap him out simply doesn't exist except in the minds of people who watch and follow too much MAGA.

    Biden can't get pushed out, if he withdraws the nominee will be Harris.
    But Harris would now be a better bet than Biden I reckon. She can at least walk
    And talk.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,407

    boulay said:

    Heathener said:

    boulay said:

    Heathener said:



    Carnyx said:

    Heathener said:

    Heathener said:

    Meanwhile, I have been 'exit polled’. It was in 2015 when I had just voted for Cameron’s Conservatives (@TSE take note!).

    And there WAS a man outside with a clipboard asking how I had just voted. It was part of the official exit poll - he showed me the ID.

    (And, no, his address wasn’t in Ibadan ;) )

    I guess they've refined their techniques since then. Continuous improvement is a good attitude we could all usefully adopt.

    But you have to admit to possible error, which people often find difficult.
    Yes indeed.

    I was registered at the time in Norfolk and unbeknown to me that particularly polling station is on the exit poll roster. IIRC they sampled every 10th person leaving the polling station or something like that (I asked them ‘why me?’). Anyway it was all official and I felt quite excited at being part of the famous 10pm tally.

    I wouldn’t bet against Curtice and team either!

    But I would note that they have their work cut out this time because there could be more tactical voting than ever before and likely some curious anomalous swings going on.
    Pleasant interview with Sir J here this very afternoon, raising the same issue.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/jun/14/elections-guru-john-curtice-exit-polls
    Curtice sounds like a lovely chap. And the son of a carpenter (has a certain historical ring to it).

    I quite like this ‘my dad was a X, Y, Z’ fad at the moment, but it’s good to see his mum getting a mention: market researcher.

    Nice article. Thank you for linking it.

    xx
    What your father did is surely less important than how they were. Not going to say what mine did but he was a magnificent man, loving, funny, gave shedloads to charity but more importantly gave his time to people who needed help. I remember being in a car with him when I was a fit and healthy 21 year old and we saw a motorcyclist hit by a car at a junction and I swear I could not have acted and run over to help faster than my father did, stopped the car and just ran out to help the kid.

    He would have been him if he had been a milkman, an accountant or a king.

    So the whole “my father was a toolmaker” stuff is irrelevant - there have been arsehole toolmakers and arsehole people with other jobs.
    +1

    What a lovely man he sounded. Did the kid make it? :(

    Footie time for me now.

    xx
    The kid sadly didn’t make it, in his hurry to help him my father forgot to put the car in neutral and the handbrake on and it kept going and ran the guy over. Sad times. Only joking, yes he did.

    Pedantically leaving the car in gear, or park if automatic, would have saved the day.
    Yes, in my fantasy comedy accidental death scenario I didn’t think about the best way to leave the car set up. I should have said “drive” not neutral.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,198
    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Hillary into 30 for Dem nomination.......madness

    The first debate is on June 27th, well before the convention. I’m still not convinced the Dems don’t swap Biden out if he turns up clearly not all with it.

    But if they do swap him out, just about the worst person imaginable to replace him is Hillary Clinton.
    This shadowy group of people who can swap him out simply doesn't exist except in the minds of people who watch and follow too much MAGA.

    Biden can't get pushed out, if he withdraws the nominee will be Harris.
    But Harris would now be a better bet than Biden I reckon. She can at least walk
    FDR.
  • AlsoLeiAlsoLei Posts: 1,415
    Leon said:

    AlsoLei said:

    Party election broadcast by Reform is just a screenshot saying “Britain is Broken. Britain Needs Reform.
    No-ones saying anything, no verbals.

    This is the PPB that Farage was claiming was so shocking that he was amazed to get past "compliance"!

    The man's an idiot. Perhaps the least-watched PPB in history?
    He was joking. Ffs
    Sure. But making himself look like a fucking idiot in the process.
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,300
    The limit for Reform is Nigel Farage. He can go a long way but probably has an ultimate limit of 30% ish of people who will consider voting for him. I don't think the 'challenger right wing party' will ultimately be led by him.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,407
    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Hillary into 30 for Dem nomination.......madness

    The first debate is on June 27th, well before the convention. I’m still not convinced the Dems don’t swap Biden out if he turns up clearly not all with it.

    But if they do swap him out, just about the worst person imaginable to replace him is Hillary Clinton.
    This shadowy group of people who can swap him out simply doesn't exist except in the minds of people who watch and follow too much MAGA.

    Biden can't get pushed out, if he withdraws the nominee will be Harris.
    But Harris would now be a better bet than Biden I reckon. She can at least walk
    I’m just hoping it’s a draw so Biden and Trump have to be joint presidents living together in the White House where every day is like the sleepwalking scene from Stepbrothers.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,153


    Ben Riley-Smith
    @benrileysmith
    NEW

    Labour is now explicitly ruling out putting Capital Gains Tax on people’s main homes.

    Labour spokesman: “No. Labour will not introduce capital gains taxes on primary residences. It’s a bad idea.”

    ===

    Of course they are. It is electoral suicide.

    They should have put taxes up on the highest earners and got rid of the two child benefit cap . They’ve backed themselves into a corner. The vast majority of the population don’t care about tax rises as long as they don’t effect them personally .
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,197
    edited June 14
    darkage said:

    The limit for Reform is Nigel Farage. He can go a long way but probably has an ultimate limit of 30% ish of people who will consider voting for him. I don't think the 'challenger right wing party' will ultimately be led by him.

    They need an equivalent of Jordan Bardella. I.e. someone young but who doesn’t give off Tory boy vibes.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,037
    AlsoLei said:

    Sean_F said:

    In terms of whether the Tories claw their way back, we should know sooner than July 4th. If the crossover headlines haven't scared the core back to voting certainty by later next week they ain't coming back at all.

    Either Reform need to come back to the Conservatives. Or, they have to kill them off. The worst result is the right getting 18% each, and 30 seats between them.
    https://x.com/Callum_L_Hunter/status/1801651287273992321?s=19
    That suggests Farage won't convince the core older vote so I think it's Con eat Ref or they both go down
    And talking about dismantling the NHS during the debates can't possibly have gone down well with older voters, I'd have thought....
    I wonder how much of the 'surge' is disengaged and unlikely to actually vote people. Not suggesting for a moment that it's not real but I think converting them to xxxs might prove challenging. I think he'd need at least a 5 point 'polling' lead to be likely to actually outpoll the Tories. Their danger is a snowball effect or even more fatalism setting in
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,672
    Rishi continues on that spectrum between tone deaf and utterly shameful:

    I asked Sunak if he could assure Zelensky that 🇬🇧 will support 🇺🇦 no matter what the election result, he replied: "I can only assure him of what I would do if I were prime minister." Suggested Labour's failure to commit to a timetable on defence spending creates uncertainty.

    https://x.com/hugogye/status/1801675472008286509?s=46
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,190
    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    I don’t think the Tories are coming back this time

    One seat’s enough.
    It’s just £10,000. You work in Dubai. No biggie
    Only a couple of months’ income, no biggie at all.

    Worth it to see you give the 500 Hyrivnas to that lady in Independence Square though.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,084
    The Conservatives’ basic problem is that Farage and Reform are better-rated than Sunak and the Conservatives.

    They rely on the 70+ legacy vote.
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,846


    Ben Riley-Smith
    @benrileysmith
    NEW

    Labour is now explicitly ruling out putting Capital Gains Tax on people’s main homes.

    Labour spokesman: “No. Labour will not introduce capital gains taxes on primary residences. It’s a bad idea.”

    ===

    Of course they are. It is electoral suicide.

    I still think they will tax CGT as income, which is what happened in Canada quite recently.

    Already leading to the inevitable, predictable capital flight.

    I am currently working out which country to spend the next five years in, if - or when - it happens. So instead of 20%, they get nothing.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,652


    Ben Riley-Smith
    @benrileysmith
    NEW

    Labour is now explicitly ruling out putting Capital Gains Tax on people’s main homes.

    Labour spokesman: “No. Labour will not introduce capital gains taxes on primary residences. It’s a bad idea.”

    ===

    Of course they are. It is electoral suicide.

    Good evening

    Rayners lose talk must have spread panic in Labour ranks

    Nobody who wants to be in power threatens home owners with capital gains tax on their own home
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,390
    Nunu5 said:

    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    I don’t think the Tories are coming back this time

    One seat’s enough.
    It would be hilarious if that single seat was Clacton!
    I can see a scenario where Reform win a dozen or so seats but lose in Clacton.
    I don't think that is actually Reforms best seat
    Farage can't be doing much door knocking there.

    He has name recognition but a plurality of those who have heard of him dislike him.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,350
    edited June 14
    AlsoLei said:

    Leon said:

    AlsoLei said:

    Party election broadcast by Reform is just a screenshot saying “Britain is Broken. Britain Needs Reform.
    No-ones saying anything, no verbals.

    This is the PPB that Farage was claiming was so shocking that he was amazed to get past "compliance"!

    The man's an idiot. Perhaps the least-watched PPB in history?
    He was joking. Ffs
    Sure. But making himself look like a fucking idiot in the process.
    Actually I think its quite clever. Reform don't really want to talk policy, they want the protest vote, and we are overwhelmed these days with video / music / noise. People just switch off, we have become the swipe generation. And nobody really watches the PPB properly, they are all the same. Doing this, its like your telly has broke, it will have made people stop and go WTF is going on.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,190
    TimS said:

    Rishi continues on that spectrum between tone deaf and utterly shameful:

    I asked Sunak if he could assure Zelensky that 🇬🇧 will support 🇺🇦 no matter what the election result, he replied: "I can only assure him of what I would do if I were prime minister." Suggested Labour's failure to commit to a timetable on defence spending creates uncertainty.

    https://x.com/hugogye/status/1801675472008286509?s=46

    That’s a true statement, but not the right answer.

    The right answer is that both himself and his main opponent are on the same page when it comes to Ukraine, and he is sure that Mr Starmer will honour his promises if the election were to go his way.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,037
    edited June 14


    Ben Riley-Smith
    @benrileysmith
    NEW

    Labour is now explicitly ruling out putting Capital Gains Tax on people’s main homes.

    Labour spokesman: “No. Labour will not introduce capital gains taxes on primary residences. It’s a bad idea.”

    ===

    Of course they are. It is electoral suicide.

    Good evening

    Rayners lose talk must have spread panic in Labour ranks

    Nobody who wants to be in power threatens home owners with capital gains tax on their own home
    Yeah I mentioned this thus morning and, per Woolies recommendation Labour quickly shut it down. Of course having to do so does leave the door open to those ????s about whither thy funding
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,728
    edited June 14

    The recent presentation at the British Polling Council gave details of the exit poll methodology

    https://www.britishpollingcouncil.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2024/06/LSE-BPC-Shedding-Light-on-the-General-Election-Final-v3.pdf

    • Fieldwork by Ipsos
    • Analysis - John Curtis, Steve Fisher, Jouni Kuda, Jon Mellon, Rob Ford, Patrick English, Albert Ward
    • Around 24,000 respondents in 130 polling stations
    • Same polling stations as in 2019
    • Analyse change in party vote share in each location
    • Estimate regression models based on constituency characteristics
    • Apply model to all constituencies to obtain predicted vote share for each constituency
    • Convert predicted vote share into estimated probability party wins each constituency
    • Exit poll prediction is sum of estimated probabilities for each constituency
    I would have thought that the points of uncertainty would be
    1. Are the polling stations representative? Given the significant change in the political world, the polling stations may not be as useful in a normal election with small changes. If there are uniform changes throughout the UK it may not matter, but if the changes are localised and variable it makes it more difficult. This suggests that there may be greater challenges predicting the smaller parties.
    2. Is the regression model fit for purpose?
    3. They identify the change in constituencies, and changes in polling stations as new issues.
    The methodology is proven and mostly unchanged as is the team.
    You're right that point 2 is the weak spot, given that the swings this time are likely to be like never before. There may also be a lot more seats where the minor parties have well below 50% chances of victory, where the randomness doesn't cancel out in the way that the many Lab v Con contests normally would.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,350
    Foxy said:

    Nunu5 said:

    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    I don’t think the Tories are coming back this time

    One seat’s enough.
    It would be hilarious if that single seat was Clacton!
    I can see a scenario where Reform win a dozen or so seats but lose in Clacton.
    I don't think that is actually Reforms best seat
    Farage can't be doing much door knocking there.

    He has name recognition but a plurality of those who have heard of him dislike him.
    That sounds like hard work. Much easier to be driven around making TikTok videos.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,514

    AlsoLei said:

    Leon said:

    AlsoLei said:

    Party election broadcast by Reform is just a screenshot saying “Britain is Broken. Britain Needs Reform.
    No-ones saying anything, no verbals.

    This is the PPB that Farage was claiming was so shocking that he was amazed to get past "compliance"!

    The man's an idiot. Perhaps the least-watched PPB in history?
    He was joking. Ffs
    Sure. But making himself look like a fucking idiot in the process.
    Actually I think its quite clever. Reform don't really want to talk policy, they want the protest vote, and we are overwhelmed these days with video / music / noise. People just switch off, we have become the swipe generation. And nobody really watches the PPB properly, they are all the same. Doing this, its like your telly has broke, it will have made people stop and go WTF is going on.
    Yeah, I couldn't ever vote for them but think they are the best at messaging this campaign, miles better than team Sunak. Labour and LDs going to plan to be fair.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,728
    darkage said:

    The limit for Reform is Nigel Farage. He can go a long way but probably has an ultimate limit of 30% ish of people who will consider voting for him. I don't think the 'challenger right wing party' will ultimately be led by him.

    Which is why Reform supplanting or merging with the Tories is a gift for the centre left.

    Especially as Labour would push towards PR if it ever looked likely that the extreme right could win under the current system.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,672
    Sandpit said:

    TimS said:

    Rishi continues on that spectrum between tone deaf and utterly shameful:

    I asked Sunak if he could assure Zelensky that 🇬🇧 will support 🇺🇦 no matter what the election result, he replied: "I can only assure him of what I would do if I were prime minister." Suggested Labour's failure to commit to a timetable on defence spending creates uncertainty.

    https://x.com/hugogye/status/1801675472008286509?s=46

    That’s a true statement, but not the right answer.

    The right answer is that both himself and his main opponent are on the same page when it comes to Ukraine, and he is sure that Mr Starmer will honour his promises if the election were to go his way.
    I just don’t think Sunak understands foreign affairs or diplomacy. He’s never shown an interest in it, and he doesn’t have meaningful experience.

    What you write above would be a no brainer for politicians attuned to diplomacy. I just don’t think he gets it. Hence D-Day.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,459

    Heathener said:

    Meanwhile, I have been 'exit polled’. It was in 2015 when I had just voted for Cameron’s Conservatives (@TSE take note!).

    And there WAS a man outside with a clipboard asking how I had just voted. It was part of the official exit poll - he showed me the ID.

    (And, no, his address wasn’t in Ibadan ;) )

    I guess they've refined their techniques since then. Continuous improvement is a good attitude we could all usefully adopt.

    But you have to admit to possible error, which people often find difficult.
    IF you want to know probability, as a psephologist. IF you desire certainty, consult your chaplain . . . or vicar.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,672
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,190
    TimS said:
    A man, a plan, a canal…
  • AlsoLeiAlsoLei Posts: 1,415

    AlsoLei said:

    Leon said:

    AlsoLei said:

    Party election broadcast by Reform is just a screenshot saying “Britain is Broken. Britain Needs Reform.
    No-ones saying anything, no verbals.

    This is the PPB that Farage was claiming was so shocking that he was amazed to get past "compliance"!

    The man's an idiot. Perhaps the least-watched PPB in history?
    He was joking. Ffs
    Sure. But making himself look like a fucking idiot in the process.
    Actually I think its quite clever. Reform don't really want to talk policy, they want the protest vote, and we are overwhelmed these days with video / music / noise. People just switch off, we have become the swipe generation. And nobody really watches the PPB properly, they are all the same. Doing this, its like your telly has broke, it will have made people stop and go WTF is going on.
    They'd have been better off actually getting their proposed broadcast banned. Include a few subliminal flashes saying "SUNAK SUCKS DONKEY BALLS", or whatever is necessary to break Ofcom rules - and only then do the dull testcard broadcast as a protest at being "silenced".
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,193
    edited June 14
    IanB2 said:

    The recent presentation at the British Polling Council gave details of the exit poll methodology

    https://www.britishpollingcouncil.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2024/06/LSE-BPC-Shedding-Light-on-the-General-Election-Final-v3.pdf

    • Fieldwork by Ipsos
    • Analysis - John Curtis, Steve Fisher, Jouni Kuda, Jon Mellon, Rob Ford, Patrick English, Albert Ward
    • Around 24,000 respondents in 130 polling stations
    • Same polling stations as in 2019
    • Analyse change in party vote share in each location
    • Estimate regression models based on constituency characteristics
    • Apply model to all constituencies to obtain predicted vote share for each constituency
    • Convert predicted vote share into estimated probability party wins each constituency
    • Exit poll prediction is sum of estimated probabilities for each constituency
    I would have thought that the points of uncertainty would be
    1. Are the polling stations representative? Given the significant change in the political world, the polling stations may not be as useful in a normal election with small changes. If there are uniform changes throughout the UK it may not matter, but if the changes are localised and variable it makes it more difficult. This suggests that there may be greater challenges predicting the smaller parties.
    2. Is the regression model fit for purpose?
    3. They identify the change in constituencies, and changes in polling stations as new issues.
    The methodology is proven and mostly unchanged as is the team.
    You're right that point 2 is the weak spot, given that the swings this time are likely to be like never before. There may also be a lot more seats where the minor parties have well below 50% chances of victory, where the randomness doesn't cancel out in the way that the many Lab v Con contests normally would.
    The exit poll coped well in 2015 with the comedy swings we saw in Scotland.

    They predicted 58 SNP seats versus the 56 they actually won from a base of 6 they had before the election.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 5,849
    I’m starting to think this site isn’t the best recruiting ground for Reform voters.
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860
    3:1 Deutschland I reckon.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,045
    Any polls coming out in the next few hours, for the poll-hungry ?

    Waiter, could you bring the sweet trolley, and I may need a drink.
  • TweedledeeTweedledee Posts: 1,405
    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    Heathener said:

    boulay said:

    Heathener said:



    Carnyx said:

    Heathener said:

    Heathener said:

    Meanwhile, I have been 'exit polled’. It was in 2015 when I had just voted for Cameron’s Conservatives (@TSE take note!).

    And there WAS a man outside with a clipboard asking how I had just voted. It was part of the official exit poll - he showed me the ID.

    (And, no, his address wasn’t in Ibadan ;) )

    I guess they've refined their techniques since then. Continuous improvement is a good attitude we could all usefully adopt.

    But you have to admit to possible error, which people often find difficult.
    Yes indeed.

    I was registered at the time in Norfolk and unbeknown to me that particularly polling station is on the exit poll roster. IIRC they sampled every 10th person leaving the polling station or something like that (I asked them ‘why me?’). Anyway it was all official and I felt quite excited at being part of the famous 10pm tally.

    I wouldn’t bet against Curtice and team either!

    But I would note that they have their work cut out this time because there could be more tactical voting than ever before and likely some curious anomalous swings going on.
    Pleasant interview with Sir J here this very afternoon, raising the same issue.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/jun/14/elections-guru-john-curtice-exit-polls
    Curtice sounds like a lovely chap. And the son of a carpenter (has a certain historical ring to it).

    I quite like this ‘my dad was a X, Y, Z’ fad at the moment, but it’s good to see his mum getting a mention: market researcher.

    Nice article. Thank you for linking it.

    xx
    What your father did is surely less important than how they were. Not going to say what mine did but he was a magnificent man, loving, funny, gave shedloads to charity but more importantly gave his time to people who needed help. I remember being in a car with him when I was a fit and healthy 21 year old and we saw a motorcyclist hit by a car at a junction and I swear I could not have acted and run over to help faster than my father did, stopped the car and just ran out to help the kid.

    He would have been him if he had been a milkman, an accountant or a king.

    So the whole “my father was a toolmaker” stuff is irrelevant - there have been arsehole toolmakers and arsehole people with other jobs.
    +1

    What a lovely man he sounded. Did the kid make it? :(

    Footie time for me now.

    xx
    The kid sadly didn’t make it, in his hurry to help him my father forgot to put the car in neutral and the handbrake on and it kept going and ran the guy over. Sad times. Only joking, yes he did.

    Pedantically leaving the car in gear, or park if automatic, would have saved the day.
    Yes, in my fantasy comedy accidental death scenario I didn’t think about the best way to leave the car set up. I should have said “drive” not neutral.
    You had automatics growing up? You lucky bastard. We had a 3 wheel supermarket trolley we had to double declutch. And push backwards oop t'ills.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 5,849
    Ghedebrav said:

    3:1 Deutschland I reckon.

    0-0. Germany aren’t all that and the pressure is on.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 5,849

    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    Heathener said:

    boulay said:

    Heathener said:



    Carnyx said:

    Heathener said:

    Heathener said:

    Meanwhile, I have been 'exit polled’. It was in 2015 when I had just voted for Cameron’s Conservatives (@TSE take note!).

    And there WAS a man outside with a clipboard asking how I had just voted. It was part of the official exit poll - he showed me the ID.

    (And, no, his address wasn’t in Ibadan ;) )

    I guess they've refined their techniques since then. Continuous improvement is a good attitude we could all usefully adopt.

    But you have to admit to possible error, which people often find difficult.
    Yes indeed.

    I was registered at the time in Norfolk and unbeknown to me that particularly polling station is on the exit poll roster. IIRC they sampled every 10th person leaving the polling station or something like that (I asked them ‘why me?’). Anyway it was all official and I felt quite excited at being part of the famous 10pm tally.

    I wouldn’t bet against Curtice and team either!

    But I would note that they have their work cut out this time because there could be more tactical voting than ever before and likely some curious anomalous swings going on.
    Pleasant interview with Sir J here this very afternoon, raising the same issue.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/jun/14/elections-guru-john-curtice-exit-polls
    Curtice sounds like a lovely chap. And the son of a carpenter (has a certain historical ring to it).

    I quite like this ‘my dad was a X, Y, Z’ fad at the moment, but it’s good to see his mum getting a mention: market researcher.

    Nice article. Thank you for linking it.

    xx
    What your father did is surely less important than how they were. Not going to say what mine did but he was a magnificent man, loving, funny, gave shedloads to charity but more importantly gave his time to people who needed help. I remember being in a car with him when I was a fit and healthy 21 year old and we saw a motorcyclist hit by a car at a junction and I swear I could not have acted and run over to help faster than my father did, stopped the car and just ran out to help the kid.

    He would have been him if he had been a milkman, an accountant or a king.

    So the whole “my father was a toolmaker” stuff is irrelevant - there have been arsehole toolmakers and arsehole people with other jobs.
    +1

    What a lovely man he sounded. Did the kid make it? :(

    Footie time for me now.

    xx
    The kid sadly didn’t make it, in his hurry to help him my father forgot to put the car in neutral and the handbrake on and it kept going and ran the guy over. Sad times. Only joking, yes he did.

    Pedantically leaving the car in gear, or park if automatic, would have saved the day.
    Yes, in my fantasy comedy accidental death scenario I didn’t think about the best way to leave the car set up. I should have said “drive” not neutral.
    You had automatics growing up? You lucky bastard. We had a 3 wheel supermarket trolley we had to double declutch. And push backwards oop t'ills.
    A trolley?!! You had a trolley?! We had to crawl to the shops over broken glass and gravel.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,265
    biggles said:

    Leon said:

    Heathener said:

    Meanwhile, I have been 'exit polled’. It was in 2015 when I had just voted for Cameron’s Conservatives (@TSE take note!).

    And there WAS a man outside with a clipboard asking how I had just voted. It was part of the official exit poll - he showed me the ID.

    (And, no, his address wasn’t in Ibadan ;) )

    I was FAMOUSLY exit polled for Brexitref as I exited the sunlit polling station in leafy Primrose Hill (back when we didn’t have summers like Anchorage, Alaska) and I asked the sweet girl doing the poll who on earth was paying her to exit poll the most Remainery polling station in the UK and she said “some bankers in the city” and that’s when I first began to think the powers-that-be had got it all wrong and a Leave vote was coming
    Hold on, haven’t you just stolen one of much missed PBer @seanT’s stories?
    Just near neighbours.
    It's a regular coincidence thing. Everyone experiences that.
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,640

    IanB2 said:

    The recent presentation at the British Polling Council gave details of the exit poll methodology

    https://www.britishpollingcouncil.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2024/06/LSE-BPC-Shedding-Light-on-the-General-Election-Final-v3.pdf

    • Fieldwork by Ipsos
    • Analysis - John Curtis, Steve Fisher, Jouni Kuda, Jon Mellon, Rob Ford, Patrick English, Albert Ward
    • Around 24,000 respondents in 130 polling stations
    • Same polling stations as in 2019
    • Analyse change in party vote share in each location
    • Estimate regression models based on constituency characteristics
    • Apply model to all constituencies to obtain predicted vote share for each constituency
    • Convert predicted vote share into estimated probability party wins each constituency
    • Exit poll prediction is sum of estimated probabilities for each constituency
    I would have thought that the points of uncertainty would be
    1. Are the polling stations representative? Given the significant change in the political world, the polling stations may not be as useful in a normal election with small changes. If there are uniform changes throughout the UK it may not matter, but if the changes are localised and variable it makes it more difficult. This suggests that there may be greater challenges predicting the smaller parties.
    2. Is the regression model fit for purpose?
    3. They identify the change in constituencies, and changes in polling stations as new issues.
    The methodology is proven and mostly unchanged as is the team.
    You're right that point 2 is the weak spot, given that the swings this time are likely to be like never before. There may also be a lot more seats where the minor parties have well below 50% chances of victory, where the randomness doesn't cancel out in the way that the many Lab v Con contests normally would.
    The exit poll coped well in 2015 with the comedy swings we saw in Scotland.
    Scotland was SNP 56 of 59 seats on a quasi-majority of the vote in the era before Unionist tactical voting. That's the kind of result one can predict pretty well without an intricate regression model.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,261
    Just got Yougoved for specifics of how I would vote in my constituency with the named candidates. I presume this is for a future MRP poll?
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,407

    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    Heathener said:

    boulay said:

    Heathener said:



    Carnyx said:

    Heathener said:

    Heathener said:

    Meanwhile, I have been 'exit polled’. It was in 2015 when I had just voted for Cameron’s Conservatives (@TSE take note!).

    And there WAS a man outside with a clipboard asking how I had just voted. It was part of the official exit poll - he showed me the ID.

    (And, no, his address wasn’t in Ibadan ;) )

    I guess they've refined their techniques since then. Continuous improvement is a good attitude we could all usefully adopt.

    But you have to admit to possible error, which people often find difficult.
    Yes indeed.

    I was registered at the time in Norfolk and unbeknown to me that particularly polling station is on the exit poll roster. IIRC they sampled every 10th person leaving the polling station or something like that (I asked them ‘why me?’). Anyway it was all official and I felt quite excited at being part of the famous 10pm tally.

    I wouldn’t bet against Curtice and team either!

    But I would note that they have their work cut out this time because there could be more tactical voting than ever before and likely some curious anomalous swings going on.
    Pleasant interview with Sir J here this very afternoon, raising the same issue.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/jun/14/elections-guru-john-curtice-exit-polls
    Curtice sounds like a lovely chap. And the son of a carpenter (has a certain historical ring to it).

    I quite like this ‘my dad was a X, Y, Z’ fad at the moment, but it’s good to see his mum getting a mention: market researcher.

    Nice article. Thank you for linking it.

    xx
    What your father did is surely less important than how they were. Not going to say what mine did but he was a magnificent man, loving, funny, gave shedloads to charity but more importantly gave his time to people who needed help. I remember being in a car with him when I was a fit and healthy 21 year old and we saw a motorcyclist hit by a car at a junction and I swear I could not have acted and run over to help faster than my father did, stopped the car and just ran out to help the kid.

    He would have been him if he had been a milkman, an accountant or a king.

    So the whole “my father was a toolmaker” stuff is irrelevant - there have been arsehole toolmakers and arsehole people with other jobs.
    +1

    What a lovely man he sounded. Did the kid make it? :(

    Footie time for me now.

    xx
    The kid sadly didn’t make it, in his hurry to help him my father forgot to put the car in neutral and the handbrake on and it kept going and ran the guy over. Sad times. Only joking, yes he did.

    Pedantically leaving the car in gear, or park if automatic, would have saved the day.
    Yes, in my fantasy comedy accidental death scenario I didn’t think about the best way to leave the car set up. I should have said “drive” not neutral.
    You had automatics growing up? You lucky bastard. We had a 3 wheel supermarket trolley we had to double declutch. And push backwards oop t'ills.
    I’m not that fucking old haha. My mum did have a nice Mercedes 300sl gullwing though and I remember her jag XJS being egged - maybe they were protesting her driving young children in an unsuitable car for kids safety.
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,628
    Germany should win tonight but don't rule out a draw, maybe a 25% chance. You tend to get more 'surprises' earlier in a tournament.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,197
    French farce update: Eric Ciotti gets a tribunal to suspend his expulsion from the party so he’s still claiming the leadership.

    https://x.com/eciotti/status/1801680506750120221

    Le tribunal judiciaire de Paris a suspendu mon exclusion des Républicains.

    Je conserve donc l’exercice de mes fonctions de Président.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,261
    biggles said:

    I’m starting to think this site isn’t the best recruiting ground for Reform voters.

    I thought we had decided Reform voters weren't as much recruited as grown like the Uruk Hai in Jackson's The Two Towers. ;)
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,265
    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Ok seventh like the Azov Batallion.

    Seen in Kyiv three days ago


    What a charming insignia, there.

    I wonder where I've seen that before ?
    Yep. I’ve seen plenty more of this as well

    I know we are all pro-Ukraine here but I’ve seen some Nazi-tinged shit that would make your hair curl

    I could post images but because of dorks like @Heathener we are still restricted to one a day
    I remember being brought up short in Kyiv by a signboard for a restaurant featuring a cartoon of the ultimate stereotypical Jew: big nose and lips, kippah, money everywhere, proper fiddler on the roof / Oliver Twist stuff. The kind of image Corbyn would probably retweet approvingly without realising it was problematic.

    But I know you see the same or worse in Russia (I’ve seen it, in full flagrant view in the Moscow office of one of our partners shortly after the Crimea annexation - a cartoon of a jolly Russian farmer anal raping a Ukrainian woman). And Ukraine doesn’t seek the destruction of the Western world order.
    Ukraine aspires to improve, which is the point.
    Russia's aspiration is back to empire.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,190
    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    Heathener said:

    boulay said:

    Heathener said:



    Carnyx said:

    Heathener said:

    Heathener said:

    Meanwhile, I have been 'exit polled’. It was in 2015 when I had just voted for Cameron’s Conservatives (@TSE take note!).

    And there WAS a man outside with a clipboard asking how I had just voted. It was part of the official exit poll - he showed me the ID.

    (And, no, his address wasn’t in Ibadan ;) )

    I guess they've refined their techniques since then. Continuous improvement is a good attitude we could all usefully adopt.

    But you have to admit to possible error, which people often find difficult.
    Yes indeed.

    I was registered at the time in Norfolk and unbeknown to me that particularly polling station is on the exit poll roster. IIRC they sampled every 10th person leaving the polling station or something like that (I asked them ‘why me?’). Anyway it was all official and I felt quite excited at being part of the famous 10pm tally.

    I wouldn’t bet against Curtice and team either!

    But I would note that they have their work cut out this time because there could be more tactical voting than ever before and likely some curious anomalous swings going on.
    Pleasant interview with Sir J here this very afternoon, raising the same issue.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/jun/14/elections-guru-john-curtice-exit-polls
    Curtice sounds like a lovely chap. And the son of a carpenter (has a certain historical ring to it).

    I quite like this ‘my dad was a X, Y, Z’ fad at the moment, but it’s good to see his mum getting a mention: market researcher.

    Nice article. Thank you for linking it.

    xx
    What your father did is surely less important than how they were. Not going to say what mine did but he was a magnificent man, loving, funny, gave shedloads to charity but more importantly gave his time to people who needed help. I remember being in a car with him when I was a fit and healthy 21 year old and we saw a motorcyclist hit by a car at a junction and I swear I could not have acted and run over to help faster than my father did, stopped the car and just ran out to help the kid.

    He would have been him if he had been a milkman, an accountant or a king.

    So the whole “my father was a toolmaker” stuff is irrelevant - there have been arsehole toolmakers and arsehole people with other jobs.
    +1

    What a lovely man he sounded. Did the kid make it? :(

    Footie time for me now.

    xx
    The kid sadly didn’t make it, in his hurry to help him my father forgot to put the car in neutral and the handbrake on and it kept going and ran the guy over. Sad times. Only joking, yes he did.

    Pedantically leaving the car in gear, or park if automatic, would have saved the day.
    Yes, in my fantasy comedy accidental death scenario I didn’t think about the best way to leave the car set up. I should have said “drive” not neutral.
    You had automatics growing up? You lucky bastard. We had a 3 wheel supermarket trolley we had to double declutch. And push backwards oop t'ills.
    I’m not that fucking old haha. My mum did have a nice Mercedes 300sl gullwing though and I remember her jag XJS being egged - maybe they were protesting her driving young children in an unsuitable car for kids safety.
    A 300SL is a million-pound car these days. https://bringatrailer.com/mercedes-benz/300sl/
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,728
    Ghedebrav said:

    3:1 Deutschland I reckon.

    Scotland can score?
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,037

    Just got Yougoved for specifics of how I would vote in my constituency with the named candidates. I presume this is for a future MRP poll?

    I think so as its outwith their Sky or times usual polling days
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,407
    Sandpit said:

    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    Heathener said:

    boulay said:

    Heathener said:



    Carnyx said:

    Heathener said:

    Heathener said:

    Meanwhile, I have been 'exit polled’. It was in 2015 when I had just voted for Cameron’s Conservatives (@TSE take note!).

    And there WAS a man outside with a clipboard asking how I had just voted. It was part of the official exit poll - he showed me the ID.

    (And, no, his address wasn’t in Ibadan ;) )

    I guess they've refined their techniques since then. Continuous improvement is a good attitude we could all usefully adopt.

    But you have to admit to possible error, which people often find difficult.
    Yes indeed.

    I was registered at the time in Norfolk and unbeknown to me that particularly polling station is on the exit poll roster. IIRC they sampled every 10th person leaving the polling station or something like that (I asked them ‘why me?’). Anyway it was all official and I felt quite excited at being part of the famous 10pm tally.

    I wouldn’t bet against Curtice and team either!

    But I would note that they have their work cut out this time because there could be more tactical voting than ever before and likely some curious anomalous swings going on.
    Pleasant interview with Sir J here this very afternoon, raising the same issue.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/jun/14/elections-guru-john-curtice-exit-polls
    Curtice sounds like a lovely chap. And the son of a carpenter (has a certain historical ring to it).

    I quite like this ‘my dad was a X, Y, Z’ fad at the moment, but it’s good to see his mum getting a mention: market researcher.

    Nice article. Thank you for linking it.

    xx
    What your father did is surely less important than how they were. Not going to say what mine did but he was a magnificent man, loving, funny, gave shedloads to charity but more importantly gave his time to people who needed help. I remember being in a car with him when I was a fit and healthy 21 year old and we saw a motorcyclist hit by a car at a junction and I swear I could not have acted and run over to help faster than my father did, stopped the car and just ran out to help the kid.

    He would have been him if he had been a milkman, an accountant or a king.

    So the whole “my father was a toolmaker” stuff is irrelevant - there have been arsehole toolmakers and arsehole people with other jobs.
    +1

    What a lovely man he sounded. Did the kid make it? :(

    Footie time for me now.

    xx
    The kid sadly didn’t make it, in his hurry to help him my father forgot to put the car in neutral and the handbrake on and it kept going and ran the guy over. Sad times. Only joking, yes he did.

    Pedantically leaving the car in gear, or park if automatic, would have saved the day.
    Yes, in my fantasy comedy accidental death scenario I didn’t think about the best way to leave the car set up. I should have said “drive” not neutral.
    You had automatics growing up? You lucky bastard. We had a 3 wheel supermarket trolley we had to double declutch. And push backwards oop t'ills.
    I’m not that fucking old haha. My mum did have a nice Mercedes 300sl gullwing though and I remember her jag XJS being egged - maybe they were protesting her driving young children in an unsuitable car for kids safety.
    A 300SL is a million-pound car these days. https://bringatrailer.com/mercedes-benz/300sl/
    Yup. A bit annoyed she didn’t keep it.
  • TweedledeeTweedledee Posts: 1,405
    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    Heathener said:

    boulay said:

    Heathener said:



    Carnyx said:

    Heathener said:

    Heathener said:

    Meanwhile, I have been 'exit polled’. It was in 2015 when I had just voted for Cameron’s Conservatives (@TSE take note!).

    And there WAS a man outside with a clipboard asking how I had just voted. It was part of the official exit poll - he showed me the ID.

    (And, no, his address wasn’t in Ibadan ;) )

    I guess they've refined their techniques since then. Continuous improvement is a good attitude we could all usefully adopt.

    But you have to admit to possible error, which people often find difficult.
    Yes indeed.

    I was registered at the time in Norfolk and unbeknown to me that particularly polling station is on the exit poll roster. IIRC they sampled every 10th person leaving the polling station or something like that (I asked them ‘why me?’). Anyway it was all official and I felt quite excited at being part of the famous 10pm tally.

    I wouldn’t bet against Curtice and team either!

    But I would note that they have their work cut out this time because there could be more tactical voting than ever before and likely some curious anomalous swings going on.
    Pleasant interview with Sir J here this very afternoon, raising the same issue.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/jun/14/elections-guru-john-curtice-exit-polls
    Curtice sounds like a lovely chap. And the son of a carpenter (has a certain historical ring to it).

    I quite like this ‘my dad was a X, Y, Z’ fad at the moment, but it’s good to see his mum getting a mention: market researcher.

    Nice article. Thank you for linking it.

    xx
    What your father did is surely less important than how they were. Not going to say what mine did but he was a magnificent man, loving, funny, gave shedloads to charity but more importantly gave his time to people who needed help. I remember being in a car with him when I was a fit and healthy 21 year old and we saw a motorcyclist hit by a car at a junction and I swear I could not have acted and run over to help faster than my father did, stopped the car and just ran out to help the kid.

    He would have been him if he had been a milkman, an accountant or a king.

    So the whole “my father was a toolmaker” stuff is irrelevant - there have been arsehole toolmakers and arsehole people with other jobs.
    +1

    What a lovely man he sounded. Did the kid make it? :(

    Footie time for me now.

    xx
    The kid sadly didn’t make it, in his hurry to help him my father forgot to put the car in neutral and the handbrake on and it kept going and ran the guy over. Sad times. Only joking, yes he did.

    Pedantically leaving the car in gear, or park if automatic, would have saved the day.
    Yes, in my fantasy comedy accidental death scenario I didn’t think about the best way to leave the car set up. I should have said “drive” not neutral.
    You had automatics growing up? You lucky bastard. We had a 3 wheel supermarket trolley we had to double declutch. And push backwards oop t'ills.
    I’m not that fucking old haha. My mum did have a nice Mercedes 300sl gullwing though and I remember her jag XJS being egged - maybe they were protesting her driving young children in an unsuitable car for kids safety.
    What I call 'ills are probably Hills to you. One half doesn't know...
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,672
    One of those fun political quizzes based on the manifestos.

    Says I should vote Lib Dem, surprise surprise.

    https://www.thetimes.com/article/285d9d36-830a-4847-b237-4cdc780edf38?shareToken=6b258d21f828373c026aaf27b17bb412
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,037
    IanB2 said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    3:1 Deutschland I reckon.

    Scotland can score?
    I remember them going one up against Brazil in 86
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 5,849
    Have any Germans turned up?
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,407

    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    Heathener said:

    boulay said:

    Heathener said:



    Carnyx said:

    Heathener said:

    Heathener said:

    Meanwhile, I have been 'exit polled’. It was in 2015 when I had just voted for Cameron’s Conservatives (@TSE take note!).

    And there WAS a man outside with a clipboard asking how I had just voted. It was part of the official exit poll - he showed me the ID.

    (And, no, his address wasn’t in Ibadan ;) )

    I guess they've refined their techniques since then. Continuous improvement is a good attitude we could all usefully adopt.

    But you have to admit to possible error, which people often find difficult.
    Yes indeed.

    I was registered at the time in Norfolk and unbeknown to me that particularly polling station is on the exit poll roster. IIRC they sampled every 10th person leaving the polling station or something like that (I asked them ‘why me?’). Anyway it was all official and I felt quite excited at being part of the famous 10pm tally.

    I wouldn’t bet against Curtice and team either!

    But I would note that they have their work cut out this time because there could be more tactical voting than ever before and likely some curious anomalous swings going on.
    Pleasant interview with Sir J here this very afternoon, raising the same issue.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/jun/14/elections-guru-john-curtice-exit-polls
    Curtice sounds like a lovely chap. And the son of a carpenter (has a certain historical ring to it).

    I quite like this ‘my dad was a X, Y, Z’ fad at the moment, but it’s good to see his mum getting a mention: market researcher.

    Nice article. Thank you for linking it.

    xx
    What your father did is surely less important than how they were. Not going to say what mine did but he was a magnificent man, loving, funny, gave shedloads to charity but more importantly gave his time to people who needed help. I remember being in a car with him when I was a fit and healthy 21 year old and we saw a motorcyclist hit by a car at a junction and I swear I could not have acted and run over to help faster than my father did, stopped the car and just ran out to help the kid.

    He would have been him if he had been a milkman, an accountant or a king.

    So the whole “my father was a toolmaker” stuff is irrelevant - there have been arsehole toolmakers and arsehole people with other jobs.
    +1

    What a lovely man he sounded. Did the kid make it? :(

    Footie time for me now.

    xx
    The kid sadly didn’t make it, in his hurry to help him my father forgot to put the car in neutral and the handbrake on and it kept going and ran the guy over. Sad times. Only joking, yes he did.

    Pedantically leaving the car in gear, or park if automatic, would have saved the day.
    Yes, in my fantasy comedy accidental death scenario I didn’t think about the best way to leave the car set up. I should have said “drive” not neutral.
    You had automatics growing up? You lucky bastard. We had a 3 wheel supermarket trolley we had to double declutch. And push backwards oop t'ills.
    I’m not that fucking old haha. My mum did have a nice Mercedes 300sl gullwing though and I remember her jag XJS being egged - maybe they were protesting her driving young children in an unsuitable car for kids safety.
    What I call 'ills are probably Hills to you. One half doesn't know...
    Very very good. Subtle.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,190
    biggles said:

    Have any Germans turned up?

    Eleven of them, shortly to be standing in the middle of the pitch.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 5,849
    TimS said:

    One of those fun political quizzes based on the manifestos.

    Says I should vote Lib Dem, surprise surprise.

    https://www.thetimes.com/article/285d9d36-830a-4847-b237-4cdc780edf38?shareToken=6b258d21f828373c026aaf27b17bb412

    Heh.

    14 agree 5 disagree for the Tories, 13/6 for each of Lab/Reform (not sure how - do Reform have policies?), and the rest are nowhere. Basically I’m a Brexit voting (and wouldn’t change it) Starmer-ist.

    That’s a massive contradiction, hence I am confused.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,037
    What a shit opening ceremony
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,407
    The nineties called and want their opening ceremonies back. Just need Diana Ross to bugger up a penalty kick now.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,190
    boulay said:

    Sandpit said:

    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    Heathener said:

    boulay said:

    Heathener said:



    Carnyx said:

    Heathener said:

    Heathener said:

    Meanwhile, I have been 'exit polled’. It was in 2015 when I had just voted for Cameron’s Conservatives (@TSE take note!).

    And there WAS a man outside with a clipboard asking how I had just voted. It was part of the official exit poll - he showed me the ID.

    (And, no, his address wasn’t in Ibadan ;) )

    I guess they've refined their techniques since then. Continuous improvement is a good attitude we could all usefully adopt.

    But you have to admit to possible error, which people often find difficult.
    Yes indeed.

    I was registered at the time in Norfolk and unbeknown to me that particularly polling station is on the exit poll roster. IIRC they sampled every 10th person leaving the polling station or something like that (I asked them ‘why me?’). Anyway it was all official and I felt quite excited at being part of the famous 10pm tally.

    I wouldn’t bet against Curtice and team either!

    But I would note that they have their work cut out this time because there could be more tactical voting than ever before and likely some curious anomalous swings going on.
    Pleasant interview with Sir J here this very afternoon, raising the same issue.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/jun/14/elections-guru-john-curtice-exit-polls
    Curtice sounds like a lovely chap. And the son of a carpenter (has a certain historical ring to it).

    I quite like this ‘my dad was a X, Y, Z’ fad at the moment, but it’s good to see his mum getting a mention: market researcher.

    Nice article. Thank you for linking it.

    xx
    What your father did is surely less important than how they were. Not going to say what mine did but he was a magnificent man, loving, funny, gave shedloads to charity but more importantly gave his time to people who needed help. I remember being in a car with him when I was a fit and healthy 21 year old and we saw a motorcyclist hit by a car at a junction and I swear I could not have acted and run over to help faster than my father did, stopped the car and just ran out to help the kid.

    He would have been him if he had been a milkman, an accountant or a king.

    So the whole “my father was a toolmaker” stuff is irrelevant - there have been arsehole toolmakers and arsehole people with other jobs.
    +1

    What a lovely man he sounded. Did the kid make it? :(

    Footie time for me now.

    xx
    The kid sadly didn’t make it, in his hurry to help him my father forgot to put the car in neutral and the handbrake on and it kept going and ran the guy over. Sad times. Only joking, yes he did.

    Pedantically leaving the car in gear, or park if automatic, would have saved the day.
    Yes, in my fantasy comedy accidental death scenario I didn’t think about the best way to leave the car set up. I should have said “drive” not neutral.
    You had automatics growing up? You lucky bastard. We had a 3 wheel supermarket trolley we had to double declutch. And push backwards oop t'ills.
    I’m not that fucking old haha. My mum did have a nice Mercedes 300sl gullwing though and I remember her jag XJS being egged - maybe they were protesting her driving young children in an unsuitable car for kids safety.
    A 300SL is a million-pound car these days. https://bringatrailer.com/mercedes-benz/300sl/
    Yup. A bit annoyed she didn’t keep it.
    There’s so many classic cars that are worth a fortune these days, but mostly because there’s not many of them left.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,197
    Blue sky strategy to save the Tories: Liz Truss should sue for unfair dismissal and get herself reinstated as PM, then cancel the election because Sunak wasn't the legitimate PM and give herself six months to turn things around.
  • eekeek Posts: 27,962

    Just got Yougoved for specifics of how I would vote in my constituency with the named candidates. I presume this is for a future MRP poll?

    Mentioned that to Mrs Eek so she went to Yougov. Didn’t get that question just who out of the last 5 PMs is responsible for the current Tory situation.

    A harder decision than you would expect as all hold some responsibility albeit May only because of her desire to fix social care
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,728

    What a shit opening ceremony

    Sensibly avoiding spending the $$$$€€€€¥¥¥¥££££ that the Olympic ceremonies require. Anyhow the footie kicks off very soon…
  • TweedledeeTweedledee Posts: 1,405


    Ben Riley-Smith
    @benrileysmith
    NEW

    Labour is now explicitly ruling out putting Capital Gains Tax on people’s main homes.

    Labour spokesman: “No. Labour will not introduce capital gains taxes on primary residences. It’s a bad idea.”

    ===

    Of course they are. It is electoral suicide.

    Good evening

    Rayners lose talk must have spread panic in Labour ranks

    Nobody who wants to be in power threatens home owners with capital gains tax on their own home
    That's a bit comedic, surely, when you have just survived a totally false accusation by the totally fascist lickspittle Tory press that you have just flipped a three bedder in some godawful NW ghetto that you installed your brother in and said was your main res on the tax return but told the neighbours you were "the landlord"?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,190
    When does Janet Jackson turn up and suffer a “wardrobe malfunction”?
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,037
    boulay said:

    The nineties called and want their opening ceremonies back. Just need Diana Ross to bugger up a penalty kick now.

    'We need 100 people who have no rhythm or coordination to tit about to shop music'
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 5,849
    boulay said:

    The nineties called and want their opening ceremonies back. Just need Diana Ross to bugger up a penalty kick now.

    It not exactly Nessun Dorma like the last one is it?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,728
    biggles said:

    TimS said:

    One of those fun political quizzes based on the manifestos.

    Says I should vote Lib Dem, surprise surprise.

    https://www.thetimes.com/article/285d9d36-830a-4847-b237-4cdc780edf38?shareToken=6b258d21f828373c026aaf27b17bb412

    Heh.

    14 agree 5 disagree for the Tories, 13/6 for each of Lab/Reform (not sure how - do Reform have policies?), and the rest are nowhere. Basically I’m a Brexit voting (and wouldn’t change it) Starmer-ist.

    That’s a massive contradiction, hence I am confused.
    I’m supposed to vote Green, with LibDems close behind, and the Tories last, behind even Reform.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,557
    biggles said:

    boulay said:

    The nineties called and want their opening ceremonies back. Just need Diana Ross to bugger up a penalty kick now.

    It not exactly Nessun Dorma like the last one is it?
    it is the Germans singing English songs in English, in preparation for the second greatest tournament of an English sport, said English sport being by far the most popular on the planet. And England are the favourites, or certainly close

    Don’t knock it. This is our cultural victory being shown to us. We won. They ain’t playing pétanque
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,190
    Half of those fireworks didn’t go off.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 5,849
    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Ok seventh like the Azov Batallion.

    Seen in Kyiv three days ago


    What a charming insignia, there.

    I wonder where I've seen that before ?
    Yep. I’ve seen plenty more of this as well

    I know we are all pro-Ukraine here but I’ve seen some Nazi-tinged shit that would make your hair curl

    I could post images but because of dorks like @Heathener we are still restricted to one a day
    I remember being brought up short in Kyiv by a signboard for a restaurant featuring a cartoon of the ultimate stereotypical Jew: big nose and lips, kippah, money everywhere, proper fiddler on the roof / Oliver Twist stuff. The kind of image Corbyn would probably retweet approvingly without realising it was problematic.

    But I know you see the same or worse in Russia (I’ve seen it, in full flagrant view in the Moscow office of one of our partners shortly after the Crimea annexation - a cartoon of a jolly Russian farmer anal raping a Ukrainian woman). And Ukraine doesn’t seek the destruction of the Western world order.
    Yes, quite so

    The truly confuddling thing is that both sides use Nazi imagery (wtf is the Z about on Russian tanks etc? And all those WAGNER guys with swastika tatts)

    I think it is simply something soldiers do. Nazi signs are seen as macho and brutal and scary so you adopt them

    Also there is merit in the Russian accusation that Ukrainian politics has some Nazi antecedents. Bandera is not fiction. He existed. And the Ukrainians were tremendous anti semites. But so were many Russians and the Estonians and Latvians etc who are now cherished partners in Europe

    It’s a moral mess. But the fact is Putin is the invader and he threatens all of us so we must support Ukraine nonetheless
    It's morally quite simple.
    A nation state - a nascent democracy - has been invaded in a war of conquest.

    The rest is whataboutery.
    Yes, plus add in the strategic risk if this domino falls, and what Russia has done on our shores, and there is no question where the U.K. should stand.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,532
    Evening all! So what do we think?

    Easy win for Germany?
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,603
    Has everyone forgotten that Nigel Lawson taxed capital gains at income tax rates?

    https://www.taxjournal.com/articles/nigel-lawson-the-tax-reforming-chancellor
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,407
    edited June 14


    Come on Scotland. For Malc, Farooq, TheUnionDivie, Carnyx, Burgessian, Rochdale (lol) and any Scots posters I’ve missed. And most of all for Gordon Brown, may a little happiness finally enter your life. Just remembered DavidL, sorry, I keep thinking you are English.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 5,849
    Leon said:

    biggles said:

    boulay said:

    The nineties called and want their opening ceremonies back. Just need Diana Ross to bugger up a penalty kick now.

    It not exactly Nessun Dorma like the last one is it?
    it is the Germans singing English songs in English, in preparation for the second greatest tournament of an English sport, said English sport being by far the most popular on the planet. And England are the favourites, or certainly close

    Don’t knock it. This is our cultural victory being shown to us. We won. They ain’t playing pétanque
    And the Germans are about to get stuffed by the UK’s second team.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,514
    Sandpit said:

    Half of those fireworks didn’t go off.

    Was Rishi involved?
  • TweedledeeTweedledee Posts: 1,405
    boulay said:

    Sandpit said:

    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    Heathener said:

    boulay said:

    Heathener said:



    Carnyx said:

    Heathener said:

    Heathener said:

    Meanwhile, I have been 'exit polled’. It was in 2015 when I had just voted for Cameron’s Conservatives (@TSE take note!).

    And there WAS a man outside with a clipboard asking how I had just voted. It was part of the official exit poll - he showed me the ID.

    (And, no, his address wasn’t in Ibadan ;) )

    I guess they've refined their techniques since then. Continuous improvement is a good attitude we could all usefully adopt.

    But you have to admit to possible error, which people often find difficult.
    Yes indeed.

    I was registered at the time in Norfolk and unbeknown to me that particularly polling station is on the exit poll roster. IIRC they sampled every 10th person leaving the polling station or something like that (I asked them ‘why me?’). Anyway it was all official and I felt quite excited at being part of the famous 10pm tally.

    I wouldn’t bet against Curtice and team either!

    But I would note that they have their work cut out this time because there could be more tactical voting than ever before and likely some curious anomalous swings going on.
    Pleasant interview with Sir J here this very afternoon, raising the same issue.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/jun/14/elections-guru-john-curtice-exit-polls
    Curtice sounds like a lovely chap. And the son of a carpenter (has a certain historical ring to it).

    I quite like this ‘my dad was a X, Y, Z’ fad at the moment, but it’s good to see his mum getting a mention: market researcher.

    Nice article. Thank you for linking it.

    xx
    What your father did is surely less important than how they were. Not going to say what mine did but he was a magnificent man, loving, funny, gave shedloads to charity but more importantly gave his time to people who needed help. I remember being in a car with him when I was a fit and healthy 21 year old and we saw a motorcyclist hit by a car at a junction and I swear I could not have acted and run over to help faster than my father did, stopped the car and just ran out to help the kid.

    He would have been him if he had been a milkman, an accountant or a king.

    So the whole “my father was a toolmaker” stuff is irrelevant - there have been arsehole toolmakers and arsehole people with other jobs.
    +1

    What a lovely man he sounded. Did the kid make it? :(

    Footie time for me now.

    xx
    The kid sadly didn’t make it, in his hurry to help him my father forgot to put the car in neutral and the handbrake on and it kept going and ran the guy over. Sad times. Only joking, yes he did.

    Pedantically leaving the car in gear, or park if automatic, would have saved the day.
    Yes, in my fantasy comedy accidental death scenario I didn’t think about the best way to leave the car set up. I should have said “drive” not neutral.
    You had automatics growing up? You lucky bastard. We had a 3 wheel supermarket trolley we had to double declutch. And push backwards oop t'ills.
    I’m not that fucking old haha. My mum did have a nice Mercedes 300sl gullwing though and I remember her jag XJS being egged - maybe they were protesting her driving young children in an unsuitable car for kids safety.
    A 300SL is a million-pound car these days. https://bringatrailer.com/mercedes-benz/300sl/
    Yup. A bit annoyed she didn’t keep it.
    Footnote for historians of 1970s UK anti semitism. The Jag xjs used to be called the Jew's Canoe which I never understood till someone very recently explained that the car's main competition was Mercedes, which Jews for obvious reasons tended to boycott.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 5,849

    Evening all! So what do we think?

    Easy win for Germany?

    I said 0-0 above. I’m updating to 1-1.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 10,655
    New Liz Truss campaign song: https://youtu.be/uWDprhRTXMQ
This discussion has been closed.