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We have the first constituency betting market – politicalbetting.com

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  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 40,496
    Selebian said:

    Carnyx said:

    Ooh. Aww. Were there mutton pies?

    While on the old pub front, did you see this feelgood story for Friday pm:

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/may/10/beloved-cardiff-pub-demolished-in-2012-reopens-after-brick-by-brick-rebuild-on-new-site

    Had a great day out at St Fagans Museum - or rather Sain Ffagan Amgueddfa Werin Cymru - many, many years ago. Ought to go back especially now.

    Edit: dunno what happened to formatting, looks OK on editing

    My fault I think but couldn’t see anything amiss either when I checked.

    That looks a good one, the lavs are spectacular.
    Some disquiet that what’s generally accepted to be the best pub in Glasgow, The Laurieston, has been sold. They’d be mad to change its 1950s charm but who can tell nowadays. Great mutton pies & peas
    I did wonder what you were doing at a Royal Stats Soc conference (although that may be your natural habitat, for all I know!). Made more sense when I realised the quote was from Viewcode.

    Of course, it could have been a conference on Radio Security Service, Really Simple Syndication or the Royal Stuart Society
    Indeed!

    Both pubs make a nice change from the wonky ex-pub story (admittedly the latter is still ongoing).
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    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,541

    WillG said:

    Donkeys said:

    Blinken has said that he opposes the forced relocation of Palestinians from Gaza. He said this to the Egyptian foreign minister, but there are only two crossings from Gaza to Egypt and the Israelis have shut them both. They are forcing people not south to Sinai in Egypt, but north. More than 100,000 have already fled eastern Rafah to the north in the last few days. I still reckon the plan is to throw survivors out on ships (probably paid for by the US), but we shall see. Certainly Blinken is mentioning forced relocation and AFAIAA this is new.

    Bibi is gearing up for a second Nakba. It isn't genocide but it is definitely ethnic cleansing.
    Wasn't the original Naqba when the Palestinians "ethnically cleansed" themselves from the region, to allow the invading Arab armies to exterminate all of the Jews?

    That wasn't a genocide either
    With 15k Palestinians killed, ethnically cleansing themselves must have been a risky business. A lot of trip hazards I expect.
    And yet they still didn't learn the lesson to not try to exterminate all of the Jews

    And they still haven't. Will they ever?
    The Palestinians are not trying to exterminate all of the Jews. Hamas are, or may be. You cannot punish an ethnic group for the actions of some of its members. Most Palestinians want to be able to live their lives, have enough to eat, earn a wage, have a say in their society, the normal stuff.
    Extremely sad to see the celebrations in Rafah when the poor buggers thought the cease fire might happen last week. Don’t think on the whole that extermination of the Jews was uppermost in their minds.

    Still, we’ve got a whole traumatised and radicalised generation to look forward to.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 63,676
    Leon said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Alexa, I've been searching all morning for PoliticalBetting.com but I keep winding up on some travel blog. What am I doing wrong?

    Not knowing how to work uBlock Origin sufficiently well to hide the holiday photos of boring old drunkards.
    Do tell us some more about your 189 fucking megadecibel cans on your fucking lol 1200CC Kawasaki HELL BIKE which you fucking thrape around Lancashire using BX39473??ww-juice at 800 fucking mph like the total mad anarchist and Hamas supporter you are so you can get to your fucking epic bungalow in time to watch Keeping Up Appearances
    Are you coming down with heat stroke ?
  • Options
    FarooqFarooq Posts: 11,245

    eek said:

    Eurovision: The Netherlands' entry Joost Klein stopped from rehearsing over 'incident'
    https://news.sky.com/story/eurovision-the-netherlands-entry-joost-klein-stopped-from-rehearsing-over-incident-13132862

    It's going to be fun as the incident seems to be the press conference where when the Israel contestant was asked "Why should you be allowed to appear?" the EBU said unfair question and Joost said - seems perfectly reasonable to ask and should be answered..

    Worth remembering that Greta Thunberg is part of the people outside protesting about Israel's participation...
    Has Greta ever protested about Russia's illegal invasion, mass-murder and imperialist expansion in Ukraine?
    Further to other people's answers, your question is patently stupid. Western governments are largely pro-Ukraine and anti-Russian invasion. Whom should Greta be protesting against?

    One of the reasons people protest against Israel is they they feel, rightly or wrongly, that Western governments and institutions are too lenient to Israel and should adopt a more critical stance. Have YOU protested against Russia's invasion? No? Well then.
  • Options
    ianian Posts: 9
    I have no knowledge of excommunicated animals, however I have heard of a donkey genuflecting before the Blessed Sacrame t. I see no good reason to doubt it!
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,496
    Farooq said:

    eek said:

    Eurovision: The Netherlands' entry Joost Klein stopped from rehearsing over 'incident'
    https://news.sky.com/story/eurovision-the-netherlands-entry-joost-klein-stopped-from-rehearsing-over-incident-13132862

    It's going to be fun as the incident seems to be the press conference where when the Israel contestant was asked "Why should you be allowed to appear?" the EBU said unfair question and Joost said - seems perfectly reasonable to ask and should be answered..

    Worth remembering that Greta Thunberg is part of the people outside protesting about Israel's participation...
    Has Greta ever protested about Russia's illegal invasion, mass-murder and imperialist expansion in Ukraine?
    Further to other people's answers, your question is patently stupid. Western governments are largely pro-Ukraine and anti-Russian invasion. Whom should Greta be protesting against?

    One of the reasons people protest against Israel is they they feel, rightly or wrongly, that Western governments and institutions are too lenient to Israel and should adopt a more critical stance. Have YOU protested against Russia's invasion? No? Well then.
    Your comment is patently stupid.

    Protesting against the Russians, obviously. Or the many companies that still work with, or in, Russia - and there ate many.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,496
    Donkeys said:

    eek said:

    Eurovision: The Netherlands' entry Joost Klein stopped from rehearsing over 'incident'
    https://news.sky.com/story/eurovision-the-netherlands-entry-joost-klein-stopped-from-rehearsing-over-incident-13132862

    It's going to be fun as the incident seems to be the press conference where when the Israel contestant was asked "Why should you be allowed to appear?" the EBU said unfair question and Joost said - seems perfectly reasonable to ask and should be answered..

    Worth remembering that Greta Thunberg is part of the people outside protesting about Israel's participation...
    Has Greta ever protested about Russia's illegal invasion, mass-murder and imperialist expansion in Ukraine?
    How many of the resistance fighters in the Warsaw Ghetto in 1943 had ever protested about the genocide against the Armenians? You don't get this humanitarian thing, do you? And Greta Thunberg is a known super-wally anyway.
    What are you actually saying in that comment?
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 115,072

    NEW THREAD

  • Options
    FarooqFarooq Posts: 11,245

    Farooq said:

    eek said:

    Eurovision: The Netherlands' entry Joost Klein stopped from rehearsing over 'incident'
    https://news.sky.com/story/eurovision-the-netherlands-entry-joost-klein-stopped-from-rehearsing-over-incident-13132862

    It's going to be fun as the incident seems to be the press conference where when the Israel contestant was asked "Why should you be allowed to appear?" the EBU said unfair question and Joost said - seems perfectly reasonable to ask and should be answered..

    Worth remembering that Greta Thunberg is part of the people outside protesting about Israel's participation...
    Has Greta ever protested about Russia's illegal invasion, mass-murder and imperialist expansion in Ukraine?
    Further to other people's answers, your question is patently stupid. Western governments are largely pro-Ukraine and anti-Russian invasion. Whom should Greta be protesting against?

    One of the reasons people protest against Israel is they they feel, rightly or wrongly, that Western governments and institutions are too lenient to Israel and should adopt a more critical stance. Have YOU protested against Russia's invasion? No? Well then.
    Your comment is patently stupid.

    Protesting against the Russians, obviously. Or the many companies that still work with, or in, Russia - and there ate many.
    There are substantial sanctions in place against Russia, and my contention is that what governments are doing here is in line with what our citizens think is merited. There's therefore no appetite for protests, because policy is broadly thought to be correct.

    With Israel, it's not quite the same. Sections of society want much more done against the Israeli government. Hence, protest.

    That is, protest comes in the gap between policy and public expectation of policy. A lack of protest against Russia doesn't mean people are less disgusted by Russia's actions. The double standards you hoped to find don't exist because policy accounts for the different appetites for protest.
  • Options
    Phil said:

    Sounds like the kind of thing which could have been a Brexit benefit if we had a government that was actually capable of governing instead of spending all their time on culture war bullshit.

    Yes, quite agree. I am not optimistic that Labour will proceed with reforming the system because it would take us out of line with the EU.
  • Options
    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,211
    Phil said:

    MattW said:

    Ideas raised for discussion include restrictions on no. of passengers, driving in the dark, power of vehicle and a zero drink limit for inexperienced / young drivers. All to open up debate.

    I'm interested that the length of time suggested is very short at 6 months, whilst in NI restrictions already apply for 12 months. Building a wide coalition to get the idea in the door, I'd say.

    The devil is going to be in the detail here. This is similar to the system used for motorcycles - you can start riding at 16, but there are notable restrictions until 21 or 24, depending on how you go about it - and it is near universally unpopular.

    The restrictions need to be carefully calibrated or you end up making things less safe. The EU, who designed our bike licensing system, completely ballsed it up. Right now we restrict 16 year olds to 50cc machines that are death traps on today's roads. 17 year olds (or anyone riding on a CBT) are banned from motorways, forcing them onto badly lit, poorly maintained, twisty back roads, where the chance of an accident is far higher than on a motorway.

    And it can distort the vehicle market quite seriously. 50cc bikes and scooters are rapidly dying because they're so useless an e-bike makes more sense. 125cc machines command far higher prices than they should due to so many riders being restricted to that engine size.

    Graduated licencing is worth debating, but the the motorcycle experience suggests the restrictions need to be very simple, ie, no more then a 100bph engine before you're 24, or they risk producing unforeseen effects.
    Sounds like the kind of thing which could have been a Brexit benefit if we had a government that was actually capable of governing instead of spending all their time on culture war bullshit.
    Motorcycle licensing is a national competency anyway. You can ride a moped at 14 in Portugal and a 125 on a car licence in Austria, etc.

    The current system is ludicrous and seems perfectly optimised to kill off motorcycling as personal transport and leave it as a leisure activity for the well heeled.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,496
    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    eek said:

    Eurovision: The Netherlands' entry Joost Klein stopped from rehearsing over 'incident'
    https://news.sky.com/story/eurovision-the-netherlands-entry-joost-klein-stopped-from-rehearsing-over-incident-13132862

    It's going to be fun as the incident seems to be the press conference where when the Israel contestant was asked "Why should you be allowed to appear?" the EBU said unfair question and Joost said - seems perfectly reasonable to ask and should be answered..

    Worth remembering that Greta Thunberg is part of the people outside protesting about Israel's participation...
    Has Greta ever protested about Russia's illegal invasion, mass-murder and imperialist expansion in Ukraine?
    Further to other people's answers, your question is patently stupid. Western governments are largely pro-Ukraine and anti-Russian invasion. Whom should Greta be protesting against?

    One of the reasons people protest against Israel is they they feel, rightly or wrongly, that Western governments and institutions are too lenient to Israel and should adopt a more critical stance. Have YOU protested against Russia's invasion? No? Well then.
    Your comment is patently stupid.

    Protesting against the Russians, obviously. Or the many companies that still work with, or in, Russia - and there ate many.
    There are substantial sanctions in place against Russia, and my contention is that what governments are doing here is in line with what our citizens think is merited. There's therefore no appetite for protests, because policy is broadly thought to be correct.

    With Israel, it's not quite the same. Sections of society want much more done against the Israeli government. Hence, protest.

    That is, protest comes in the gap between policy and public expectation of policy. A lack of protest against Russia doesn't mean people are less disgusted by Russia's actions. The double standards you hoped to find don't exist because policy accounts for the different appetites for protest.
    Yet some companies continue to trade with Russia, despite sanctions.

    e.g. : https://www.export.org.uk/insights/trade-news/some-uk-firms-still-supplying-russia-as-unilever-chief-says-withdrawing-is-not-straightforward/
    Or:
    https://www.export.org.uk/insights/trade-news/over-100-uk-companies-admit-to-breaching-russia-sanctions-according-to-top-law-firm/

    The thing is, the Israel/Palestine situation is morally muddy. October 7th shows that the Palestinian side can do evil; Israel's actions this year show they can as well. It's complex. Whereas Russia/Ukraine is about as clear-cut on a morality sense as you can get.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,449
    Foxy said:

    eek said:

    Eurovision: The Netherlands' entry Joost Klein stopped from rehearsing over 'incident'
    https://news.sky.com/story/eurovision-the-netherlands-entry-joost-klein-stopped-from-rehearsing-over-incident-13132862

    It's going to be fun as the incident seems to be the press conference where when the Israel contestant was asked "Why should you be allowed to appear?" the EBU said unfair question and Joost said - seems perfectly reasonable to ask and should be answered..

    Worth remembering that Greta Thunberg is part of the people outside protesting about Israel's participation...
    Has Greta ever protested about Russia's illegal invasion, mass-murder and imperialist expansion in Ukraine?
    Yep, even been to Kyiv to support the Ukranian regime.

    https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/06/29/7409150/
    The great irony is that no one has done more for the move to renewables in Europe than Putin with his invasion of Ukraine.
  • Options
    FarooqFarooq Posts: 11,245

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    eek said:

    Eurovision: The Netherlands' entry Joost Klein stopped from rehearsing over 'incident'
    https://news.sky.com/story/eurovision-the-netherlands-entry-joost-klein-stopped-from-rehearsing-over-incident-13132862

    It's going to be fun as the incident seems to be the press conference where when the Israel contestant was asked "Why should you be allowed to appear?" the EBU said unfair question and Joost said - seems perfectly reasonable to ask and should be answered..

    Worth remembering that Greta Thunberg is part of the people outside protesting about Israel's participation...
    Has Greta ever protested about Russia's illegal invasion, mass-murder and imperialist expansion in Ukraine?
    Further to other people's answers, your question is patently stupid. Western governments are largely pro-Ukraine and anti-Russian invasion. Whom should Greta be protesting against?

    One of the reasons people protest against Israel is they they feel, rightly or wrongly, that Western governments and institutions are too lenient to Israel and should adopt a more critical stance. Have YOU protested against Russia's invasion? No? Well then.
    Your comment is patently stupid.

    Protesting against the Russians, obviously. Or the many companies that still work with, or in, Russia - and there ate many.
    There are substantial sanctions in place against Russia, and my contention is that what governments are doing here is in line with what our citizens think is merited. There's therefore no appetite for protests, because policy is broadly thought to be correct.

    With Israel, it's not quite the same. Sections of society want much more done against the Israeli government. Hence, protest.

    That is, protest comes in the gap between policy and public expectation of policy. A lack of protest against Russia doesn't mean people are less disgusted by Russia's actions. The double standards you hoped to find don't exist because policy accounts for the different appetites for protest.
    Yet some companies continue to trade with Russia, despite sanctions.

    e.g. : https://www.export.org.uk/insights/trade-news/some-uk-firms-still-supplying-russia-as-unilever-chief-says-withdrawing-is-not-straightforward/
    Or:
    https://www.export.org.uk/insights/trade-news/over-100-uk-companies-admit-to-breaching-russia-sanctions-according-to-top-law-firm/

    The thing is, the Israel/Palestine situation is morally muddy. October 7th shows that the Palestinian side can do evil; Israel's actions this year show they can as well. It's complex. Whereas Russia/Ukraine is about as clear-cut on a morality sense as you can get.
    Agreed, and that's where protest comes into play. It's easy (inevitable) that any government policy on the ME will be misaligned with what some people want, so dissatisfaction is guaranteed. Very few people are pro-Russian invasion (is @Luckyguy1983 still on here?) so it's easy for the government to settle on a popular policy.
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,817

    New Thread

  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,278
    Phil said:

    MattW said:

    Ideas raised for discussion include restrictions on no. of passengers, driving in the dark, power of vehicle and a zero drink limit for inexperienced / young drivers. All to open up debate.

    I'm interested that the length of time suggested is very short at 6 months, whilst in NI restrictions already apply for 12 months. Building a wide coalition to get the idea in the door, I'd say.

    The devil is going to be in the detail here. This is similar to the system used for motorcycles - you can start riding at 16, but there are notable restrictions until 21 or 24, depending on how you go about it - and it is near universally unpopular.

    The restrictions need to be carefully calibrated or you end up making things less safe. The EU, who designed our bike licensing system, completely ballsed it up. Right now we restrict 16 year olds to 50cc machines that are death traps on today's roads. 17 year olds (or anyone riding on a CBT) are banned from motorways, forcing them onto badly lit, poorly maintained, twisty back roads, where the chance of an accident is far higher than on a motorway.

    And it can distort the vehicle market quite seriously. 50cc bikes and scooters are rapidly dying because they're so useless an e-bike makes more sense. 125cc machines command far higher prices than they should due to so many riders being restricted to that engine size.

    Graduated licencing is worth debating, but the the motorcycle experience suggests the restrictions need to be very simple, ie, no more then a 100bph engine before you're 24, or they risk producing unforeseen effects.
    Sounds like the kind of thing which could have been a Brexit benefit if we had a government that was actually capable of governing instead of spending all their time on culture war bullshit.
    I’m about to take delivery of an electric mobility scooter. It’ll do about 4mph, top whack, (although my neighbour says he can fix that!). I’m supposed to drive it on the pavement, unless it’s unsafe to do so, and given that pavements round here are worse that the roads that means I’ll be on the road much of the time.
    The only ‘test’ or training I’ve had is about 10 minutes supervised riding, although I might get a bit more when the thing is delivered next week.
  • Options
    sarissasarissa Posts: 1,816
    DavidL said:

    Tres said:

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Roger said:

    Taz said:

    Roger said:
    It looks like there will be pro-Gaza activists standing against them, I posted an article about one standing against veteran Labour MP Steve McCabe at the next election.

    Labour are definitely changing their tone from being avowedly pro-Israel to a more nuanced position. However I doubt it will be enough for some.

    I did raise this as an issue when the conflict arose and the view was it would not really cost labour due to how few seats had a large Muslim element. However it won't only be Muslims who vote for these candidates.
    It's not only Muslims. It looks unfair. Abbott has quite a back story and could quickly develop a following. If a grouping stand against every Labour 'Friend of Israel' It could be quite significant. What are Labour 'Friends of Israel' for anyway? Just freeloaders or something else? Why not 'Friends'of somewhere where they might do some good?
    We could end up with a whole load of unexpected Tory holds, or even a random gain or two, if the “friends of the proscribed terrorist organisation” put up a load of candidates. How awesome!
    The UK economy is buggered, we have a housing crisis, unsustainable (legal) immigration, lack of infrastructure, schools (literally) falling apart, NHS wait times getting worse and worse, trapped leaseholders getting screwed by property developers, water companies pumping raw sewerage everywhere *and* by the looks of things getting bailed out for doing so.

    I really, really, really do not want GE 2024 to be defined by anyone's stance on the Israel/Palestine issue - something which the UK can do precisely nothing about.

    The country needs fixing. It does not need politicians grandstanding on foreign affairs they have absolutely eff all control over.
    + whooping cough
    The same UK economy, that despite all the official doomsters, grew 0.6 % in the last three months? That economy? The NHS is slowly recovering from Covid, as are other health systems round the world. Some schools have issues in their buildings, many do not. Water companies has become an issue partly due to better monitoring and reporting - we now know about the problems.

    Life isn't all rosy in the UK, far from it, but its not as bad as some like to paint it.
    It would be a mistake for Sunak to go around trying to re-frame it like that.

    "It's not that bad."

    Indeed, "UK officially out of recession" just reminds people that we were, at least notionally, in a recession. I'd forgotten.
    People have short memories. Give it 6 months and an interest rate cut and things will look different. Starmer hasnt said anything much in terms of how he'd do things better.

    I was in Aberdeen yesterday and the property guys were sounding bullish. Oil and gas is on the up. So if the mood starts to turn so will the polls.
    Aberdeen is probably the worst place in the country to extrapolate wider trends from. It usually goes in the opposite direction to the rest of the UK due to the impact of oil pricing.
    And on the up in Aberdeen has to be kept in perspective. They have edged ahead of downtown Rafah right enough but only recently.

    Union Street is almost completely unrecognisable from 10 years ago. Its bordering on tragic.
    Developement work for a £5.7 million scheme to improve some the most run-down buildings and lever in further investment is under way:
    https://committees.aberdeencity.gov.uk/ieDecisionDetails.aspx?Id=12950
  • Options
    SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 15,878

    Sorry, no dog for scale


    Is that bush to the right of the windmill a tortoise topiary?
  • Options
    MJWMJW Posts: 1,483
    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    eek said:

    Eurovision: The Netherlands' entry Joost Klein stopped from rehearsing over 'incident'
    https://news.sky.com/story/eurovision-the-netherlands-entry-joost-klein-stopped-from-rehearsing-over-incident-13132862

    It's going to be fun as the incident seems to be the press conference where when the Israel contestant was asked "Why should you be allowed to appear?" the EBU said unfair question and Joost said - seems perfectly reasonable to ask and should be answered..

    Worth remembering that Greta Thunberg is part of the people outside protesting about Israel's participation...
    Has Greta ever protested about Russia's illegal invasion, mass-murder and imperialist expansion in Ukraine?
    Further to other people's answers, your question is patently stupid. Western governments are largely pro-Ukraine and anti-Russian invasion. Whom should Greta be protesting against?

    One of the reasons people protest against Israel is they they feel, rightly or wrongly, that Western governments and institutions are too lenient to Israel and should adopt a more critical stance. Have YOU protested against Russia's invasion? No? Well then.
    Your comment is patently stupid.

    Protesting against the Russians, obviously. Or the many companies that still work with, or in, Russia - and there ate many.
    There are substantial sanctions in place against Russia, and my contention is that what governments are doing here is in line with what our citizens think is merited. There's therefore no appetite for protests, because policy is broadly thought to be correct.

    With Israel, it's not quite the same. Sections of society want much more done against the Israeli government. Hence, protest.

    That is, protest comes in the gap between policy and public expectation of policy. A lack of protest against Russia doesn't mean people are less disgusted by Russia's actions. The double standards you hoped to find don't exist because policy accounts for the different appetites for protest.
    Yet some companies continue to trade with Russia, despite sanctions.

    e.g. : https://www.export.org.uk/insights/trade-news/some-uk-firms-still-supplying-russia-as-unilever-chief-says-withdrawing-is-not-straightforward/
    Or:
    https://www.export.org.uk/insights/trade-news/over-100-uk-companies-admit-to-breaching-russia-sanctions-according-to-top-law-firm/

    The thing is, the Israel/Palestine situation is morally muddy. October 7th shows that the Palestinian side can do evil; Israel's actions this year show they can as well. It's complex. Whereas Russia/Ukraine is about as clear-cut on a morality sense as you can get.
    Agreed, and that's where protest comes into play. It's easy (inevitable) that any government policy on the ME will be misaligned with what some people want, so dissatisfaction is guaranteed. Very few people are pro-Russian invasion (is @Luckyguy1983 still on here?) so it's easy for the government to settle on a popular policy.
    There were protests against Russia's invasion, as I went to one. And of course the war didn't start in 2022 - Russia remained integrated as a member of the international community after it waged war in the Donbas. Few will complain about numerous countries around the world engaged or oppressively stifling conflict.

    The point really though is about the scale of bile thrown at Israel comparatively - which

    As an example, look at Saudi Arabia - we sell them arms, they are a strategic ally, have been involved in a horrific conflict with Hamas' ideological sibling in Yemen, and have a pretty major rap sheet of nasty stuff. Yet while there is intermittent (justified) criticism of it from the left and the odd small protest, that's as far as it goes.

    No one is threatening to boycott Newcastle games or hounding any business with the most tangential connection to it. When the Saudis played a friendly there, there was a small protest by Newcastle fans, but it barely caused a ripple - and the regulars on trendy protests certainly didn't bother. No one suggests anyone from Saudi Arabia should be shunned and hounded the moment they take part in any event.

    Now look at what happens to Israel - which goes way beyond the rational objections to its response to 7th Oct and treatment of the Palestinians and working to improve conditions and chances of peace. You look at some of the unhinged spittle-flecked stuff about 'Zionist entities' that emerges and it's not coming from anywhere good.

    There are only two explanations for it; stupidity and antisemitism.
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    SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 15,878
    In sunny Seattle this morning, where yesterday the weather was great with high temp in mid-70s Fahrenheit, and where today and tomorrow are forecast to see our first 80+ F days of the year.

    AND also for first time in 2024, yours truly just spent half-hour watering plants outside my humble abode (in old apartment building) which in addition to actual water involved much tangling & untangling of a very long hose. NOT a bad way to begin the day . . . AFTER my morning coffee & constitutional of course.

    Having Served the People all week, am now exploring ways of playing hooky for as much of today as possible. . .
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    Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,573
    Off topic, but of interest to many here: :The United States received 1.8 million asylum seekers in 2022, compared with 19,000 a decade earlier.​ Asylum seekers in Britain jumped nearly ninefold, to 167,000. Worldwide, the numbers mushroomed from 950,000 in 2012 to more than 6 million by June of last year. This is on top of more than 35 million people recognized as refugees by the U.N. High Commission for Refugees, as well as over 5 million Venezuelans who, though not counted as asylum seekers, have fled their country and are mostly scattered across Latin America."
    source$: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2024/05/09/britain-asylum-eu-biden-migration/

    Eduardo Porter notes that the 1951 UN convention "didn’t anticipate the internet, which has helped migrants navigate journeys that would have been impossible a quarter-century ago. The last overhaul of U.S. immigration law came about in 1990, before the advent of the web — long before TikTok videos explained how best to navigate the Darién Gap between Colombia and Panama and Google Translate helped Chinese migrants as they crossed Mexico."
  • Options
    theakestheakes Posts: 850
    YouGov latest polling:-
    Right to Leave the EU 33%
    Wrong to leave 57%
    Don't Know 10%
    Allocating Don't knows on basis of above becomes what 37 and 63% respectively.
    Maybe we are in the realm of another referendum within 2 years or less.
  • Options
    FarooqFarooq Posts: 11,245
    MJW said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    eek said:

    Eurovision: The Netherlands' entry Joost Klein stopped from rehearsing over 'incident'
    https://news.sky.com/story/eurovision-the-netherlands-entry-joost-klein-stopped-from-rehearsing-over-incident-13132862

    It's going to be fun as the incident seems to be the press conference where when the Israel contestant was asked "Why should you be allowed to appear?" the EBU said unfair question and Joost said - seems perfectly reasonable to ask and should be answered..

    Worth remembering that Greta Thunberg is part of the people outside protesting about Israel's participation...
    Has Greta ever protested about Russia's illegal invasion, mass-murder and imperialist expansion in Ukraine?
    Further to other people's answers, your question is patently stupid. Western governments are largely pro-Ukraine and anti-Russian invasion. Whom should Greta be protesting against?

    One of the reasons people protest against Israel is they they feel, rightly or wrongly, that Western governments and institutions are too lenient to Israel and should adopt a more critical stance. Have YOU protested against Russia's invasion? No? Well then.
    Your comment is patently stupid.

    Protesting against the Russians, obviously. Or the many companies that still work with, or in, Russia - and there ate many.
    There are substantial sanctions in place against Russia, and my contention is that what governments are doing here is in line with what our citizens think is merited. There's therefore no appetite for protests, because policy is broadly thought to be correct.

    With Israel, it's not quite the same. Sections of society want much more done against the Israeli government. Hence, protest.

    That is, protest comes in the gap between policy and public expectation of policy. A lack of protest against Russia doesn't mean people are less disgusted by Russia's actions. The double standards you hoped to find don't exist because policy accounts for the different appetites for protest.
    Yet some companies continue to trade with Russia, despite sanctions.

    e.g. : https://www.export.org.uk/insights/trade-news/some-uk-firms-still-supplying-russia-as-unilever-chief-says-withdrawing-is-not-straightforward/
    Or:
    https://www.export.org.uk/insights/trade-news/over-100-uk-companies-admit-to-breaching-russia-sanctions-according-to-top-law-firm/

    The thing is, the Israel/Palestine situation is morally muddy. October 7th shows that the Palestinian side can do evil; Israel's actions this year show they can as well. It's complex. Whereas Russia/Ukraine is about as clear-cut on a morality sense as you can get.
    Agreed, and that's where protest comes into play. It's easy (inevitable) that any government policy on the ME will be misaligned with what some people want, so dissatisfaction is guaranteed. Very few people are pro-Russian invasion (is @Luckyguy1983 still on here?) so it's easy for the government to settle on a popular policy.
    There were protests against Russia's invasion, as I went to one. And of course the war didn't start in 2022 - Russia remained integrated as a member of the international community after it waged war in the Donbas. Few will complain about numerous countries around the world engaged or oppressively stifling conflict.

    The point really though is about the scale of bile thrown at Israel comparatively - which

    As an example, look at Saudi Arabia - we sell them arms, they are a strategic ally, have been involved in a horrific conflict with Hamas' ideological sibling in Yemen, and have a pretty major rap sheet of nasty stuff. Yet while there is intermittent (justified) criticism of it from the left and the odd small protest, that's as far as it goes.

    No one is threatening to boycott Newcastle games or hounding any business with the most tangential connection to it. When the Saudis played a friendly there, there was a small protest by Newcastle fans, but it barely caused a ripple - and the regulars on trendy protests certainly didn't bother. No one suggests anyone from Saudi Arabia should be shunned and hounded the moment they take part in any event.

    Now look at what happens to Israel - which goes way beyond the rational objections to its response to 7th Oct and treatment of the Palestinians and working to improve conditions and chances of peace. You look at some of the unhinged spittle-flecked stuff about 'Zionist entities' that emerges and it's not coming from anywhere good.

    There are only two explanations for it; stupidity and antisemitism.
    So your response to the Russia whataboutery is to wheel in yet another whataboutery, this time Saudi Arabia. Why compare two completely different things when you can bring in a third thing that's completely different to the other two.

    Totally pointless conversation. Waste of your time and mine.
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,376
    TimS said:

    MaxPB said:

    The other interesting playing out at the moment is the slight return of risk appetite among UK investors. It needs to go a lot further to resolve the London listings issue but I have noticed talk among my former colleagues that investors seem more ready to go into higher risk equities than they were compared to the last 2-3 years.

    With a few regulatory changes to encourage more investor risk taking and a change in attitude from the government around rewarding success rather than punishing it I think we could see the FTSE hit 10k+ and a lot of the undervaluation of UK companies disappear.

    London has been outperforming the rest of the world exchanges for the last month and I'm struggling to understand why - I can only assume it's about UK vs US interest rate expectations.

    Annoying as I am very underweight on anything UK given its dire recent performance.
    They were undervalued and USA have risen so much there are bargains about, though I am also not heavy on UK due to previous poor performance but been good last couple of months on shares after shaky start to the year.
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    Off topic, but of interest to many here: :The United States received 1.8 million asylum seekers in 2022, compared with 19,000 a decade earlier.​ Asylum seekers in Britain jumped nearly ninefold, to 167,000. Worldwide, the numbers mushroomed from 950,000 in 2012 to more than 6 million by June of last year. This is on top of more than 35 million people recognized as refugees by the U.N. High Commission for Refugees, as well as over 5 million Venezuelans who, though not counted as asylum seekers, have fled their country and are mostly scattered across Latin America."
    source$: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2024/05/09/britain-asylum-eu-biden-migration/

    Eduardo Porter notes that the 1951 UN convention "didn’t anticipate the internet, which has helped migrants navigate journeys that would have been impossible a quarter-century ago. The last overhaul of U.S. immigration law came about in 1990, before the advent of the web — long before TikTok videos explained how best to navigate the Darién Gap between Colombia and Panama and Google Translate helped Chinese migrants as they crossed Mexico."

    Wait til climate change and the biodiversity crash bite. It will Mad fucking Max on the Texas border. Yer wall will fall.
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    theakes said:

    YouGov latest polling:-
    Right to Leave the EU 33%
    Wrong to leave 57%
    Don't Know 10%
    Allocating Don't knows on basis of above becomes what 37 and 63% respectively.
    Maybe we are in the realm of another referendum within 2 years or less.

    What is the short term political gain for the controlling group, (which will be busy.) Long term sure, but here and now, how does it help secure a second term?

    I’d vote Return but I don’t think I’ll get the chance.
    :(
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