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London is becoming a no go area for the Tories – politicalbetting.com

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  • Options
    TazTaz Posts: 11,289
    edited February 28

    Pulpstar said:

    Taz said:

    Harry has lost his high court case re his security when visiting the UK

    Oh Dear
    How Sad
    Never Mind
    I think this one is much more important (financially & otherwise) than the papers one, or would that be wrong ?
    Looks as if it will curtail his visits especially with Megan
    Oh No.

    Gutted.

    Perhaps he could always dip into his bank accounts and pay for it himself. There's a thought.
  • Options
    148grss148grss Posts: 3,712
    Leon said:

    Roger said:

    Leon said:

    How does someone as stupid as @Roger even have a vote?

    How can you be so stupid you do not realise that the Islamification of London has made it in, in places, a much more intolerant, homophobic, and anti-Semitic place?

    My hope is that Brexit has denied him a vote, so he can only exercise a vote in, lol, Marine le Pen’s France

    You might enjoy 'How They broke Britain' by James O'Brien. Very well written very funny and as good a reflection on UK politics as you could find. Much better than his LBC slots which are also good
    If you are young pretty female and fond of miniskirts, or indeed lesbian or gay and keen on holding hands, there are many places in Britain, sadly, where you will now find a much more hostile atmosphere than would have been the case 20 years ago

    And the reason is Islam

    it would be a wonderful world if all British Muslims were as liberal, amusing and tolerant as our own @TSE but sadly that is not the case
    That's news to me going out with all my queer friends in Birmingham. Including queer Muslims. In the general sense, I'm sure immediate immigrants are more likely to hold positions out of step with progressive values - but their kids and grandkids are more and more likely to be just average Brits. I know who is coming after me and mine, and it isn't random Muslim people on the streets, it's the front bench who want to make a moral panic out of transpeople and going on about "traditional family values" and the "woke mob". For loads of people just putting queer people in your story or telling the story of queer people makes something woke - something you have said is the end of the West. This is just a way for you to project your hatred of progress and change onto an Other that is acceptable to hate.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,986
    Taz said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Taz said:

    Harry has lost his high court case re his security when visiting the UK

    Oh Dear
    How Sad
    Never Mind
    I think this one is much more important (financially & otherwise) than the papers one, or would that be wrong ?
    Looks as if it will curtail his visits especially with Megan
    Oh No.

    Gutted.

    Perhaps he could always dip into his bank accounts and pay for it himself. There's a thought.
    Looks like he's losing the battle with his hair too !
  • Options
    Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 13,791

    After watching PMQs nobody is doing anything to enhance the reputation of the HOC and it is clear that this can only change, though I would not hold my breath, by an early GE

    It seems the SNP led vonc on the Speaker, notwithstanding Plaid endorsing it, is fizzing out and time to move on on this

    And on Angela Rayner I fail to understand what she is accused of

    I think she is accused of being a raving hypocrite is she not? One could also accuse her of being a lightweight who would struggle to get a job in lower middle management in the real world, which would also be true, but the reality is that she is a left wing Labour politician so both are neither surprising or particularly unusual for her ilk.
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 20,127

    After watching PMQs nobody is doing anything to enhance the reputation of the HOC and it is clear that this can only change, though I would not hold my breath, by an early GE

    It seems the SNP led vonc on the Speaker, notwithstanding Plaid endorsing it, is fizzing out and time to move on on this

    And on Angela Rayner I fail to understand what she is accused of

    I think she is accused of being a raving hypocrite is she not? One could also accuse her of being a lightweight who would struggle to get a job in lower middle management in the real world, which would also be true, but the reality is that she is a left wing Labour politician so both are neither surprising or particularly unusual for her ilk.
    In what way has she been hypocritical?
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,549
    148grss said:

    Leon said:

    Roger said:

    Leon said:

    How does someone as stupid as @Roger even have a vote?

    How can you be so stupid you do not realise that the Islamification of London has made it in, in places, a much more intolerant, homophobic, and anti-Semitic place?

    My hope is that Brexit has denied him a vote, so he can only exercise a vote in, lol, Marine le Pen’s France

    You might enjoy 'How They broke Britain' by James O'Brien. Very well written very funny and as good a reflection on UK politics as you could find. Much better than his LBC slots which are also good
    If you are young pretty female and fond of miniskirts, or indeed lesbian or gay and keen on holding hands, there are many places in Britain, sadly, where you will now find a much more hostile atmosphere than would have been the case 20 years ago

    And the reason is Islam

    it would be a wonderful world if all British Muslims were as liberal, amusing and tolerant as our own @TSE but sadly that is not the case
    That's news to me going out with all my queer friends in Birmingham. Including queer Muslims. In the general sense, I'm sure immediate immigrants are more likely to hold positions out of step with progressive values - but their kids and grandkids are more and more likely to be just average Brits. I know who is coming after me and mine, and it isn't random Muslim people on the streets, it's the front bench who want to make a moral panic out of transpeople and going on about "traditional family values" and the "woke mob". For loads of people just putting queer people in your story or telling the story of queer people makes something woke - something you have said is the end of the West. This is just a way for you to project your hatred of progress and change onto an Other that is acceptable to hate.
    Trans Gay Illegal Immigrant Alien AIs are stealing our country.
  • Options
    Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 13,791

    Pulpstar said:

    Taz said:

    Harry has lost his high court case re his security when visiting the UK

    Oh Dear
    How Sad
    Never Mind
    I think this one is much more important (financially & otherwise) than the papers one, or would that be wrong ?
    Looks as if it will curtail his visits especially with Megan
    To quote/plagiarise a previous poster:
    Oh Dear
    How Sad
    Never Mind
  • Options
    Taz said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Taz said:

    Harry has lost his high court case re his security when visiting the UK

    Oh Dear
    How Sad
    Never Mind
    I think this one is much more important (financially & otherwise) than the papers one, or would that be wrong ?
    Looks as if it will curtail his visits especially with Megan
    Oh No.

    Gutted.

    Perhaps he could always dip into his bank accounts and pay for it himself. There's a thought.
    It’s not just a money issue.

    IIRC the government cannot rent out armed police services and he’s not able to bring his own armed security as they would be arrested for possessing guns.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,368

    After watching PMQs nobody is doing anything to enhance the reputation of the HOC and it is clear that this can only change, though I would not hold my breath, by an early GE

    It seems the SNP led vonc on the Speaker, notwithstanding Plaid endorsing it, is fizzing out and time to move on on this

    And on Angela Rayner I fail to understand what she is accused of

    The accusation is that she has pocketed the capital gain from the sale of her council tax claiming an exemption that she was not entitled to as by then she lived somewhere else with her husband. Its rubbish. It was her primary residence when she bought it, it was until she was married, she did not claim an exemption for any other property that year and she is entitled not to have paid CGT on her gain.
  • Options
    TazTaz Posts: 11,289
    edited February 28

    Apparently Israel is going to supply early warning systems for detecting drone and missile attacks to Ukraine. A consequence for Russia siding with Hamas.

    Russia is battering Ukraine at the moment anyway. Ukraine needs far more than that.
  • Options
    TazTaz Posts: 11,289
    DavidL said:

    After watching PMQs nobody is doing anything to enhance the reputation of the HOC and it is clear that this can only change, though I would not hold my breath, by an early GE

    It seems the SNP led vonc on the Speaker, notwithstanding Plaid endorsing it, is fizzing out and time to move on on this

    And on Angela Rayner I fail to understand what she is accused of

    The accusation is that she has pocketed the capital gain from the sale of her council tax claiming an exemption that she was not entitled to as by then she lived somewhere else with her husband. Its rubbish. It was her primary residence when she bought it, it was until she was married, she did not claim an exemption for any other property that year and she is entitled not to have paid CGT on her gain.

    Also hypocrisy over buying the council house as well at a discount, given her stance the policy.

    A bit like a politician espousing the joys of state schools and sending their offspring to private.

    We expect too much of our politicians if we expect consistency of view and them not to be hypocritical.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,549

    Pulpstar said:

    Taz said:

    Harry has lost his high court case re his security when visiting the UK

    Oh Dear
    How Sad
    Never Mind
    I think this one is much more important (financially & otherwise) than the papers one, or would that be wrong ?
    Looks as if it will curtail his visits especially with Megan
    To quote/plagiarise a previous poster:
    Oh Dear
    How Sad
    Never Mind
    Incompetence....


  • Options
    Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 13,791

    After watching PMQs nobody is doing anything to enhance the reputation of the HOC and it is clear that this can only change, though I would not hold my breath, by an early GE

    It seems the SNP led vonc on the Speaker, notwithstanding Plaid endorsing it, is fizzing out and time to move on on this

    And on Angela Rayner I fail to understand what she is accused of

    I think she is accused of being a raving hypocrite is she not? One could also accuse her of being a lightweight who would struggle to get a job in lower middle management in the real world, which would also be true, but the reality is that she is a left wing Labour politician so both are neither surprising or particularly unusual for her ilk.
    In what way has she been hypocritical?
    I am sure there are plenty of examples, but the most obvious is buying her council house and selling at a profit alongside her partner doing the same whilst criticising the policy that she did not need to take advantage of. Sounds rank hypocrisy to me that is pretty difficult to top.

    Do people who want to vote in a load of hypocrites and lightweights care? Probably not.
  • Options
    TazTaz Posts: 11,289

    After watching PMQs nobody is doing anything to enhance the reputation of the HOC and it is clear that this can only change, though I would not hold my breath, by an early GE

    It seems the SNP led vonc on the Speaker, notwithstanding Plaid endorsing it, is fizzing out and time to move on on this

    And on Angela Rayner I fail to understand what she is accused of

    I think she is accused of being a raving hypocrite is she not? One could also accuse her of being a lightweight who would struggle to get a job in lower middle management in the real world, which would also be true, but the reality is that she is a left wing Labour politician so both are neither surprising or particularly unusual for her ilk.
    In what way has she been hypocritical?
    Did she use cash for the transaction ?
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 20,127
    Leon said:

    Roger said:

    Leon said:

    How does someone as stupid as @Roger even have a vote?

    How can you be so stupid you do not realise that the Islamification of London has made it in, in places, a much more intolerant, homophobic, and anti-Semitic place?

    My hope is that Brexit has denied him a vote, so he can only exercise a vote in, lol, Marine le Pen’s France

    You might enjoy 'How They broke Britain' by James O'Brien. Very well written very funny and as good a reflection on UK politics as you could find. Much better than his LBC slots which are also good
    If you are young pretty female and fond of miniskirts, or indeed lesbian or gay and keen on holding hands, there are many places in Britain, sadly, where you will now find a much more hostile atmosphere than would have been the case 20 years ago

    And the reason is Islam

    it would be a wonderful world if all British Muslims were as liberal, amusing and tolerant as our own @TSE but sadly that is not the case
    More on those illiberal Muslim MPs

    https://www.gq-magazine.co.uk/politics/article/rosena-allin-khan-interview

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3595882/SEBASTIAN-SHAKESPEARE-Secret-swimwear-model-past-Labour-choice-Khan-seat.html
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,368
    Taz said:

    DavidL said:

    After watching PMQs nobody is doing anything to enhance the reputation of the HOC and it is clear that this can only change, though I would not hold my breath, by an early GE

    It seems the SNP led vonc on the Speaker, notwithstanding Plaid endorsing it, is fizzing out and time to move on on this

    And on Angela Rayner I fail to understand what she is accused of

    The accusation is that she has pocketed the capital gain from the sale of her council tax claiming an exemption that she was not entitled to as by then she lived somewhere else with her husband. Its rubbish. It was her primary residence when she bought it, it was until she was married, she did not claim an exemption for any other property that year and she is entitled not to have paid CGT on her gain.

    Also hypocrisy over buying the council house as well at a discount, given her stance the policy.

    A bit like a politician espousing the joys of state schools and sending their offspring to private.

    We expect too much of our politicians if we expect consistency of view and them not to be hypocritical.
    I think we should be much more forgiving and welcome her to the ranks of the Tory scum who exploit public assets for private gain.
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 20,127
    Taz said:

    After watching PMQs nobody is doing anything to enhance the reputation of the HOC and it is clear that this can only change, though I would not hold my breath, by an early GE

    It seems the SNP led vonc on the Speaker, notwithstanding Plaid endorsing it, is fizzing out and time to move on on this

    And on Angela Rayner I fail to understand what she is accused of

    I think she is accused of being a raving hypocrite is she not? One could also accuse her of being a lightweight who would struggle to get a job in lower middle management in the real world, which would also be true, but the reality is that she is a left wing Labour politician so both are neither surprising or particularly unusual for her ilk.
    In what way has she been hypocritical?
    Did she use cash for the transaction ?
    It's bizarre how several PBers simultaneously tell me they don't want to talk about cash and yet endlessly raise it themselves.

    Very odd behaviour indeed.
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 20,127

    After watching PMQs nobody is doing anything to enhance the reputation of the HOC and it is clear that this can only change, though I would not hold my breath, by an early GE

    It seems the SNP led vonc on the Speaker, notwithstanding Plaid endorsing it, is fizzing out and time to move on on this

    And on Angela Rayner I fail to understand what she is accused of

    I think she is accused of being a raving hypocrite is she not? One could also accuse her of being a lightweight who would struggle to get a job in lower middle management in the real world, which would also be true, but the reality is that she is a left wing Labour politician so both are neither surprising or particularly unusual for her ilk.
    In what way has she been hypocritical?
    I am sure there are plenty of examples, but the most obvious is buying her council house and selling at a profit alongside her partner doing the same whilst criticising the policy that she did not need to take advantage of. Sounds rank hypocrisy to me that is pretty difficult to top.

    Do people who want to vote in a load of hypocrites and lightweights care? Probably not.
    She supports RTB and has said so on several occasions. Where is the hypocrisy exactly?
  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 15,414
    edited February 28
    Taz said:

    Apparently Israel is going to supply early warning systems for detecting drone and missile attacks to Ukraine. A consequence for Russia siding with Hamas.

    Russia is battering Ukraine at the moment anyway. Ukraine needs far more than that.
    Ukraine certainly do need more support, but they did manage to shoot down a pair of Russian jets yesterday, so not everything is going Russia's way.
  • Options
    bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 7,792

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/feb/28/more-than-half-of-tory-members-in-poll-say-islam-a-threat-to-british-way-of-life

    Quite a revealing poll on the depth of anti-muslim opinions and other eyebrow raising views among Tory members. Scary to think that this extremist group put some of the last few prime ministers in office with no input from the wider electorate.

    That’s a terrifying poll, with MAGA levels of delusion among Conservative Party members, believing conspiracy theory nonsense about parts of cities being under Sharia law. Levels of such beliefs are lower in the country as a whole, but there were still 30% endorsing this view.

    Reality matters. How do we build a political culture based on reality, not conspiracy? It would be good if Sunak tackled this head on. Explicitly say there aren’t no-go areas or areas ruled by Sharia law, that the Conservative Party embraces its Muslim candidates, that Islam is part of the rich fabric of British life along with his own Hinduism, Suella Braverman’s Buddhism, James Cleverly’s atheism, Kate Forbes’ Calvinism, etc.

    Although the worst part of the poll isn’t about Islam, it’s the anti-Roma prejudice!
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,126
    148grss said:

    Leon said:

    Roger said:

    Leon said:

    How does someone as stupid as @Roger even have a vote?

    How can you be so stupid you do not realise that the Islamification of London has made it in, in places, a much more intolerant, homophobic, and anti-Semitic place?

    My hope is that Brexit has denied him a vote, so he can only exercise a vote in, lol, Marine le Pen’s France

    You might enjoy 'How They broke Britain' by James O'Brien. Very well written very funny and as good a reflection on UK politics as you could find. Much better than his LBC slots which are also good
    If you are young pretty female and fond of miniskirts, or indeed lesbian or gay and keen on holding hands, there are many places in Britain, sadly, where you will now find a much more hostile atmosphere than would have been the case 20 years ago

    And the reason is Islam

    it would be a wonderful world if all British Muslims were as liberal, amusing and tolerant as our own @TSE but sadly that is not the case
    That's news to me going out with all my queer friends in Birmingham. Including queer Muslims. In the general sense, I'm sure immediate immigrants are more likely to hold positions out of step with progressive values - but their kids and grandkids are more and more likely to be just average Brits. I know who is coming after me and mine, and it isn't random Muslim people on the streets, it's the front bench who want to make a moral panic out of transpeople and going on about "traditional family values" and the "woke mob". For loads of people just putting queer people in your story or telling the story of queer people makes something woke - something you have said is the end of the West. This is just a way for you to project your hatred of progress and change onto an Other that is acceptable to hate.
    Are there any queer Tories among your diverse circle of friends?
  • Options
    TimSTimS Posts: 9,727
    DavidL said:

    After watching PMQs nobody is doing anything to enhance the reputation of the HOC and it is clear that this can only change, though I would not hold my breath, by an early GE

    It seems the SNP led vonc on the Speaker, notwithstanding Plaid endorsing it, is fizzing out and time to move on on this

    And on Angela Rayner I fail to understand what she is accused of

    The accusation is that she has pocketed the capital gain from the sale of her council tax claiming an exemption that she was not entitled to as by then she lived somewhere else with her husband. Its rubbish. It was her primary residence when she bought it, it was until she was married, she did not claim an exemption for any other property that year and she is entitled not to have paid CGT on her gain.
    Yes, having looking into it yesterday this seems a pretty cut and dried non-story.
  • Options
    TazTaz Posts: 11,289

    Taz said:

    After watching PMQs nobody is doing anything to enhance the reputation of the HOC and it is clear that this can only change, though I would not hold my breath, by an early GE

    It seems the SNP led vonc on the Speaker, notwithstanding Plaid endorsing it, is fizzing out and time to move on on this

    And on Angela Rayner I fail to understand what she is accused of

    I think she is accused of being a raving hypocrite is she not? One could also accuse her of being a lightweight who would struggle to get a job in lower middle management in the real world, which would also be true, but the reality is that she is a left wing Labour politician so both are neither surprising or particularly unusual for her ilk.
    In what way has she been hypocritical?
    Did she use cash for the transaction ?
    It's bizarre how several PBers simultaneously tell me they don't want to talk about cash and yet endlessly raise it themselves.

    Very odd behaviour indeed.
    Not as odd as you thinking, or implying, I have said I do not want to talk about cash when I haven't

    Go have a lie down and then reflect on how the assault on cash in car parks in Newcastle will hurt the marginalised in our society :cry:
  • Options
    TazTaz Posts: 11,289
    DavidL said:

    Taz said:

    DavidL said:

    After watching PMQs nobody is doing anything to enhance the reputation of the HOC and it is clear that this can only change, though I would not hold my breath, by an early GE

    It seems the SNP led vonc on the Speaker, notwithstanding Plaid endorsing it, is fizzing out and time to move on on this

    And on Angela Rayner I fail to understand what she is accused of

    The accusation is that she has pocketed the capital gain from the sale of her council tax claiming an exemption that she was not entitled to as by then she lived somewhere else with her husband. Its rubbish. It was her primary residence when she bought it, it was until she was married, she did not claim an exemption for any other property that year and she is entitled not to have paid CGT on her gain.

    Also hypocrisy over buying the council house as well at a discount, given her stance the policy.

    A bit like a politician espousing the joys of state schools and sending their offspring to private.

    We expect too much of our politicians if we expect consistency of view and them not to be hypocritical.
    I think we should be much more forgiving and welcome her to the ranks of the Tory scum who exploit public assets for private gain.
    Love it. My party right or wrong.
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,512
    .

    To give Leon a history lesson around 20 years ago white supremacists were putting nail bombs outside gay bars whilst Tories were defending Section 28 and preventing its repeal.

    To quote one of my gay friends, if right wing wankers want to use Muslims and gays to try and cause discord they can get in the fucking sea.

    He would like you to be aware of the homophobic abuse and near assault he and his partner experienced in The Village in 2019 from white guys.

    He hailed a passing taxi to get the hell out of dodge, driver could see they were both shaken up, they told him what happened, he took them home for free.

    Taxi driver was a Pakistani heritage chap.

    I understand your concern with around simple binary representations on this, and do you not think there is still an issue with Islamist extremism in this country?

    One that can sometimes not be about support for violence but about support for values at odds with our own when it comes to inclusiveness, free speech and free association?
  • Options
    TazTaz Posts: 11,289
    Here's one for @Leon

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/entertainment/news/west-end-tells-white-theatregoers-they-aren-t-welcome-as-it-hosts-all-black-audience-nights-at-kit-harrington-play-to-protect-ticketholders-from-the-white-gaze/ar-BB1j2bNs

    This stuff I cannot get annoyed it, can't say I care greatly at not being welcome at a play I had never even heard of, but I do find it comical.
  • Options
    Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 13,791

    After watching PMQs nobody is doing anything to enhance the reputation of the HOC and it is clear that this can only change, though I would not hold my breath, by an early GE

    It seems the SNP led vonc on the Speaker, notwithstanding Plaid endorsing it, is fizzing out and time to move on on this

    And on Angela Rayner I fail to understand what she is accused of

    I think she is accused of being a raving hypocrite is she not? One could also accuse her of being a lightweight who would struggle to get a job in lower middle management in the real world, which would also be true, but the reality is that she is a left wing Labour politician so both are neither surprising or particularly unusual for her ilk.
    In what way has she been hypocritical?
    I am sure there are plenty of examples, but the most obvious is buying her council house and selling at a profit alongside her partner doing the same whilst criticising the policy that she did not need to take advantage of. Sounds rank hypocrisy to me that is pretty difficult to top.

    Do people who want to vote in a load of hypocrites and lightweights care? Probably not.
    She supports RTB and has said so on several occasions. Where is the hypocrisy exactly?
    I guess she is annoyed that she and her partner/husband didn't get the 60% discount on their two council homes that they profiteered from. She has done a good spinning job since she was found out I must say. She is a hypocrite, but you don't want to see it I guess.

    I have a bridge to sell, by the way, and I'll give you a discount similar to Ms. Lightweight got for her houses.
  • Options
    kamskikamski Posts: 4,282
    Leon said:

    Roger said:

    Leon said:

    How does someone as stupid as @Roger even have a vote?

    How can you be so stupid you do not realise that the Islamification of London has made it in, in places, a much more intolerant, homophobic, and anti-Semitic place?

    My hope is that Brexit has denied him a vote, so he can only exercise a vote in, lol, Marine le Pen’s France

    You might enjoy 'How They broke Britain' by James O'Brien. Very well written very funny and as good a reflection on UK politics as you could find. Much better than his LBC slots which are also good
    If you are young pretty female and fond of miniskirts, or indeed lesbian or gay and keen on holding hands, there are many places in Britain, sadly, where you will now find a much more hostile atmosphere than would have been the case 20 years ago

    And the reason is Islam

    it would be a wonderful world if all British Muslims were as liberal, amusing and tolerant as our own @TSE but sadly that is not the case
    It's a good job england's most prominent muslim politician is a supporter of gay rights then, isn't it? He also voted in favour of same-sex marriage in 2013 - unlike 2 members of the current cabinet...
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,986

    Taz said:

    Apparently Israel is going to supply early warning systems for detecting drone and missile attacks to Ukraine. A consequence for Russia siding with Hamas.

    Russia is battering Ukraine at the moment anyway. Ukraine needs far more than that.
    Ukraine certainly do need more support, but they did manage to shoot down a pair of Russian jets yesterday, so not everything is going Russia's way.
    The fighting over mainly rubble continues and is pushing toward Chas(i/o)v Yar, which has gone from ~ 13,000 residents to ~ 800 mainly elderly.
  • Options
    bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 7,792
    Taz said:

    DavidL said:

    After watching PMQs nobody is doing anything to enhance the reputation of the HOC and it is clear that this can only change, though I would not hold my breath, by an early GE

    It seems the SNP led vonc on the Speaker, notwithstanding Plaid endorsing it, is fizzing out and time to move on on this

    And on Angela Rayner I fail to understand what she is accused of

    The accusation is that she has pocketed the capital gain from the sale of her council tax claiming an exemption that she was not entitled to as by then she lived somewhere else with her husband. Its rubbish. It was her primary residence when she bought it, it was until she was married, she did not claim an exemption for any other property that year and she is entitled not to have paid CGT on her gain.

    Also hypocrisy over buying the council house as well at a discount, given her stance the policy.

    A bit like a politician espousing the joys of state schools and sending their offspring to private.

    We expect too much of our politicians if we expect consistency of view and them not to be hypocritical.
    There is no hypocrisy in believing the system should be changed, but living under the rules of the current system. I think we should switch to STV for elections; I am not a hypocrite if I vote in an FPTP election. I think people at my earning level should pay more tax; I am not a hypocrite if I don’t voluntarily give extra money to HMRC.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,126

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/feb/28/more-than-half-of-tory-members-in-poll-say-islam-a-threat-to-british-way-of-life

    Quite a revealing poll on the depth of anti-muslim opinions and other eyebrow raising views among Tory members. Scary to think that this extremist group put some of the last few prime ministers in office with no input from the wider electorate.

    That’s a terrifying poll, with MAGA levels of delusion among Conservative Party members, believing conspiracy theory nonsense about parts of cities being under Sharia law. Levels of such beliefs are lower in the country as a whole, but there were still 30% endorsing this view.

    Reality matters. How do we build a political culture based on reality, not conspiracy? It would be good if Sunak tackled this head on. Explicitly say there aren’t no-go areas or areas ruled by Sharia law, that the Conservative Party embraces its Muslim candidates, that Islam is part of the rich fabric of British life along with his own Hinduism, Suella Braverman’s Buddhism, James Cleverly’s atheism, Kate Forbes’ Calvinism, etc.

    Although the worst part of the poll isn’t about Islam, it’s the anti-Roma prejudice!
    Perhaps the term 'no-go area' is being interpreted too literally and a better word to use would be ghetto.
  • Options
    148grss148grss Posts: 3,712
    Taz said:

    Here's one for @Leon

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/entertainment/news/west-end-tells-white-theatregoers-they-aren-t-welcome-as-it-hosts-all-black-audience-nights-at-kit-harrington-play-to-protect-ticketholders-from-the-white-gaze/ar-BB1j2bNs

    This stuff I cannot get annoyed it, can't say I care greatly at not being welcome at a play I had never even heard of, but I do find it comical.

    This is for a play that did a run in the US that is specifically aimed at talking about racial dynamics and specifically makes the audience uncomfortable - including not having an interval - as part of the experience. I would imagine that white and black audience members might have very different reactions to what they see, so if the play write or the producer or whoever have asked for some nights to be reserved for black only audiences (a group of people who are underrepresented in theatre audiences in part due to the intersections of class, race and poverty) - that makes sense to me.
  • Options
    148grss148grss Posts: 3,712
    edited February 28

    148grss said:

    Leon said:

    Roger said:

    Leon said:

    How does someone as stupid as @Roger even have a vote?

    How can you be so stupid you do not realise that the Islamification of London has made it in, in places, a much more intolerant, homophobic, and anti-Semitic place?

    My hope is that Brexit has denied him a vote, so he can only exercise a vote in, lol, Marine le Pen’s France

    You might enjoy 'How They broke Britain' by James O'Brien. Very well written very funny and as good a reflection on UK politics as you could find. Much better than his LBC slots which are also good
    If you are young pretty female and fond of miniskirts, or indeed lesbian or gay and keen on holding hands, there are many places in Britain, sadly, where you will now find a much more hostile atmosphere than would have been the case 20 years ago

    And the reason is Islam

    it would be a wonderful world if all British Muslims were as liberal, amusing and tolerant as our own @TSE but sadly that is not the case
    That's news to me going out with all my queer friends in Birmingham. Including queer Muslims. In the general sense, I'm sure immediate immigrants are more likely to hold positions out of step with progressive values - but their kids and grandkids are more and more likely to be just average Brits. I know who is coming after me and mine, and it isn't random Muslim people on the streets, it's the front bench who want to make a moral panic out of transpeople and going on about "traditional family values" and the "woke mob". For loads of people just putting queer people in your story or telling the story of queer people makes something woke - something you have said is the end of the West. This is just a way for you to project your hatred of progress and change onto an Other that is acceptable to hate.
    Are there any queer Tories among your diverse circle of friends?
    No - never kiss a Tory, luv. TBF most of them don't care much for electoral / party politics - so none of them are paid up members of any party and lots of them don't vote.
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    edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,151
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    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,775
    Sunak at PMQs accuses Starmer of "sniping from the sidelines". Isn't the LOTOs job description to snipe from the sidelines?
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    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 20,127

    After watching PMQs nobody is doing anything to enhance the reputation of the HOC and it is clear that this can only change, though I would not hold my breath, by an early GE

    It seems the SNP led vonc on the Speaker, notwithstanding Plaid endorsing it, is fizzing out and time to move on on this

    And on Angela Rayner I fail to understand what she is accused of

    I think she is accused of being a raving hypocrite is she not? One could also accuse her of being a lightweight who would struggle to get a job in lower middle management in the real world, which would also be true, but the reality is that she is a left wing Labour politician so both are neither surprising or particularly unusual for her ilk.
    In what way has she been hypocritical?
    I am sure there are plenty of examples, but the most obvious is buying her council house and selling at a profit alongside her partner doing the same whilst criticising the policy that she did not need to take advantage of. Sounds rank hypocrisy to me that is pretty difficult to top.

    Do people who want to vote in a load of hypocrites and lightweights care? Probably not.
    She supports RTB and has said so on several occasions. Where is the hypocrisy exactly?
    I guess she is annoyed that she and her partner/husband didn't get the 60% discount on their two council homes that they profiteered from. She has done a good spinning job since she was found out I must say. She is a hypocrite, but you don't want to see it I guess.

    I have a bridge to sell, by the way, and I'll give you a discount similar to Ms. Lightweight got for her houses.
    In what sense has she been hypocritical?

    I ask again – simple question.
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    StockyStocky Posts: 9,736
    Taz said:

    Here's one for @Leon

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/entertainment/news/west-end-tells-white-theatregoers-they-aren-t-welcome-as-it-hosts-all-black-audience-nights-at-kit-harrington-play-to-protect-ticketholders-from-the-white-gaze/ar-BB1j2bNs

    This stuff I cannot get annoyed it, can't say I care greatly at not being welcome at a play I had never even heard of, but I do find it comical.

    'all-Black identifying audience' lol
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,986

    After watching PMQs nobody is doing anything to enhance the reputation of the HOC and it is clear that this can only change, though I would not hold my breath, by an early GE

    It seems the SNP led vonc on the Speaker, notwithstanding Plaid endorsing it, is fizzing out and time to move on on this

    And on Angela Rayner I fail to understand what she is accused of

    I think she is accused of being a raving hypocrite is she not? One could also accuse her of being a lightweight who would struggle to get a job in lower middle management in the real world, which would also be true, but the reality is that she is a left wing Labour politician so both are neither surprising or particularly unusual for her ilk.
    In what way has she been hypocritical?
    I am sure there are plenty of examples, but the most obvious is buying her council house and selling at a profit alongside her partner doing the same whilst criticising the policy that she did not need to take advantage of. Sounds rank hypocrisy to me that is pretty difficult to top.

    Do people who want to vote in a load of hypocrites and lightweights care? Probably not.
    She supports RTB and has said so on several occasions. Where is the hypocrisy exactly?
    I guess she is annoyed that she and her partner/husband didn't get the 60% discount on their two council homes that they profiteered from. She has done a good spinning job since she was found out I must say. She is a hypocrite, but you don't want to see it I guess.

    I have a bridge to sell, by the way, and I'll give you a discount similar to Ms. Lightweight got for her houses.
    The bit about "Right to buy" I've never understood is the sale discount to market rate. The tenant should have the right to buy but at a market rate.
    With Jezza's new 1% mortgages this should be more than possible for many tenants, giving both the benefits of home ownership for the tenant and stopping the beggaring of councils.
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    Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 13,791
    DavidL said:

    Taz said:

    DavidL said:

    After watching PMQs nobody is doing anything to enhance the reputation of the HOC and it is clear that this can only change, though I would not hold my breath, by an early GE

    It seems the SNP led vonc on the Speaker, notwithstanding Plaid endorsing it, is fizzing out and time to move on on this

    And on Angela Rayner I fail to understand what she is accused of

    The accusation is that she has pocketed the capital gain from the sale of her council tax claiming an exemption that she was not entitled to as by then she lived somewhere else with her husband. Its rubbish. It was her primary residence when she bought it, it was until she was married, she did not claim an exemption for any other property that year and she is entitled not to have paid CGT on her gain.

    Also hypocrisy over buying the council house as well at a discount, given her stance the policy.

    A bit like a politician espousing the joys of state schools and sending their offspring to private.

    We expect too much of our politicians if we expect consistency of view and them not to be hypocritical.
    I think we should be much more forgiving and welcome her to the ranks of the Tory scum who exploit public assets for private gain.
    I imagine there will be a large number applying to that club once Labour get into power, just like there was last time.
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    bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 7,792

    .

    To give Leon a history lesson around 20 years ago white supremacists were putting nail bombs outside gay bars whilst Tories were defending Section 28 and preventing its repeal.

    To quote one of my gay friends, if right wing wankers want to use Muslims and gays to try and cause discord they can get in the fucking sea.

    He would like you to be aware of the homophobic abuse and near assault he and his partner experienced in The Village in 2019 from white guys.

    He hailed a passing taxi to get the hell out of dodge, driver could see they were both shaken up, they told him what happened, he took them home for free.

    Taxi driver was a Pakistani heritage chap.

    I understand your concern with around simple binary representations on this, and do you not think there is still an issue with Islamist extremism in this country?

    One that can sometimes not be about support for violence but about support for values at odds with our own when it comes to inclusiveness, free speech and free association?
    The Conservative Party certainly don’t seem to support values of inclusiveness (fuelling culture wars), free speech (restrictions on protests, excluding who is allowed to speak to civil servants) or free association (anti-union laws).

    But, yes, there is a problem with Islamist extremism in this country. The error is believing that it is a uniquely dangerous problem, that Islam is inherently more dangerous than any other religion, that Islam is irreconcilable with British values. Conservative Party members and others are espousing bonkers views with no basis in reality about no-go areas, Sharia law, and Great Replacement Theory.
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    TimS said:

    Selebian said:

    TimS said:

    TOPPING said:

    Selebian said:

    TOPPING said:

    Apparently Israel is going to supply early warning systems for detecting drone and missile attacks to Ukraine. A consequence for Russia siding with Hamas.

    That will be a total head fuck, taking sides-wise, for just about everyone on PB.
    Russia bad. Hamas bad. That's simple enough, isn't it?

    I know Israel are now supporting Ukraine, but hey, we've dealt with such mindfucks as the French supporting Ukraine. We can handle this. :wink:
    Russia bad. Hamas noble, oppressed, democratically-elected freedom fighters seems to be the norm for many if not most PB posters.
    You tend to hear the strongest views on this from the shoutiest most opinionated posters. I would assume the majority view is Russia bad, Hamas bad, Israel (Netanyahu) bad, Ukraine good.
    I work on the 'everyone bad' mindset. Brings a simply clarity to geopolitics. In any conflict, the bad fight the bad (as fighting is bad) and it's no surprise that the bad support the bad or - being bad - are bad friends and fail to support the bad or, indeed, turn round and support the other bad side :wink:
    All as bad as each other is rather what Russia would like the world (particularly the West) to believe. It encourages leaders to abandon Ukraine.
    Thus Puntinists such as Donald Trump directly pimping for Putin . . . and Putinists like Boris Johnson (and his PB peanut gallery) indirectly pimping by backing Trump.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,986
    Pulpstar said:

    Taz said:

    Apparently Israel is going to supply early warning systems for detecting drone and missile attacks to Ukraine. A consequence for Russia siding with Hamas.

    Russia is battering Ukraine at the moment anyway. Ukraine needs far more than that.
    Ukraine certainly do need more support, but they did manage to shoot down a pair of Russian jets yesterday, so not everything is going Russia's way.
    The fighting over mainly rubble continues and is pushing toward Chas(i/o)v Yar, which has gone from ~ 13,000 residents to ~ 800 mainly elderly.
    Ukraine is set back for the moment, but it's certainly not a collapse of the front by any measure.
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    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,242
    Delicious Tele tears.


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    bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 7,792

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/feb/28/more-than-half-of-tory-members-in-poll-say-islam-a-threat-to-british-way-of-life

    Quite a revealing poll on the depth of anti-muslim opinions and other eyebrow raising views among Tory members. Scary to think that this extremist group put some of the last few prime ministers in office with no input from the wider electorate.

    That’s a terrifying poll, with MAGA levels of delusion among Conservative Party members, believing conspiracy theory nonsense about parts of cities being under Sharia law. Levels of such beliefs are lower in the country as a whole, but there were still 30% endorsing this view.

    Reality matters. How do we build a political culture based on reality, not conspiracy? It would be good if Sunak tackled this head on. Explicitly say there aren’t no-go areas or areas ruled by Sharia law, that the Conservative Party embraces its Muslim candidates, that Islam is part of the rich fabric of British life along with his own Hinduism, Suella Braverman’s Buddhism, James Cleverly’s atheism, Kate Forbes’ Calvinism, etc.

    Although the worst part of the poll isn’t about Islam, it’s the anti-Roma prejudice!
    Perhaps the term 'no-go area' is being interpreted too literally and a better word to use would be ghetto.
    ‘When I use a word,’ Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, ‘it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less.’

    ‘The question is,’ said Alice, ‘whether you can make words mean so many different things.’
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    TazTaz Posts: 11,289

    Taz said:

    DavidL said:

    After watching PMQs nobody is doing anything to enhance the reputation of the HOC and it is clear that this can only change, though I would not hold my breath, by an early GE

    It seems the SNP led vonc on the Speaker, notwithstanding Plaid endorsing it, is fizzing out and time to move on on this

    And on Angela Rayner I fail to understand what she is accused of

    The accusation is that she has pocketed the capital gain from the sale of her council tax claiming an exemption that she was not entitled to as by then she lived somewhere else with her husband. Its rubbish. It was her primary residence when she bought it, it was until she was married, she did not claim an exemption for any other property that year and she is entitled not to have paid CGT on her gain.

    Also hypocrisy over buying the council house as well at a discount, given her stance the policy.

    A bit like a politician espousing the joys of state schools and sending their offspring to private.

    We expect too much of our politicians if we expect consistency of view and them not to be hypocritical.
    There is no hypocrisy in believing the system should be changed, but living under the rules of the current system. I think we should switch to STV for elections; I am not a hypocrite if I vote in an FPTP election. I think people at my earning level should pay more tax; I am not a hypocrite if I don’t voluntarily give extra money to HMRC.
    There is a difference. They are choosing to personally gain from the system they dislike.

    You are not doing so by voting in an election.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,941

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Nigelb said:

    148grss said:

    There's a great part in Pratchett's Going Postal where a character describes the con the men who own the Grand Trunk are playing - I don't have the book in front of me, but it's along the lines of: you see an asset that could turn a profit that is currently owned by people who care about the asset as a system and not an asset and therefore do not have a head for business. As someone who wants to turn a profit, you approach these men with no heads for business and say you want to invest in that asset. They agree, always wanting money to spend tinkering in their sheds to improve the systems they care about, and sign your documents. Eventually, you run out of that first bit of money, so when they say they're happy to invest again you sign again without question. But this time you've sold more than a 50% share in the asset, so you no longer own it, and now people with heads for business are in charge and they don't care if the system works - they care that it makes money. So maintenance stops, because that's a cost that doesn't return short term profit, and the system is always pushed to breaking point to make the most money off of it. They bought it dirt cheap, they suck it dry whilst running it into the ground, and they'll also likely make a profit selling it off afterwards to another rube or to the state who need the system to exist for the functioning of society.

    Anyway, I give this extremely long preface (apologies as always @TOPPING) to share this unrelated news:

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/live/2024/feb/28/thames-water-lobbying-higher-bills-lower-fines-avoid-bailout-report-claims-somerset-gigafactory-bridgend-tata-us-gdp-business-live

    It's an interesting point when the asset is a monopoly public utility like Thames Water.

    Thames Water lobbying government to let it increase bills by 40%
    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2024/feb/28/thames-water-lobbying-government-bills-dividends-fines-breaches-taxpayer-bailout

    It is not obvious to me that it's a good deal for the UK to force Thames customers effectively to bail out a commercial entity which has previously extracted massive dividends from the business, and which, without the deal which the owners are lobbying for, is effectively bankrupt.

    We should put in into administration, and government should take control of the business. The shareholders and bondholders would take massive losses, but that would serve as a useful warning to the commercial owners of UK public service utilities (often overseas) who have been taking the piss for decades.

    Government can probably borrow more cheaply anyway, and the necessary price rises for the needed infrastructure improvement would be significantly less. And any future profits would remain in the UK.
    An alternative fair plan could be to treat the bill a bit like a share issue.

    So let them increase it by the 40% they need but half the company goes to the customers who pay the bills and existing shareholders get diluted.
    The problem with that idea is that many of the customers will immediately sell their shares to the existing shareholders, to make a quick buck.
    As you can do with any shareholding that pays an ongoing dividend.

    @noneoftheabove plan looks equitable to me.
    Not to me.
    It still involves either the billpayers - or the taxpayer - bailing out £14bn or so of majority foreign owned bad debt
    In exchange for shares. It depends on the numbers I suppose, what would their shares be worth vs extra they pay, as long as that can be reasonably matched it seems fair.
    Thames Water is effectively bust without a bailout, so 'shares' are currently worth nothing.

    The numbers are that there is around £14bn of debt, much of which was incurred to pay past dividends on both shares and bonds. You're asking billpayers to pay for the debt.

    Wiping out the bondholders by way of administration would be a salutary warning to others not to take the piss in the future.
    Who owns Thames Water's debt?
    Your pension fund.
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    StockyStocky Posts: 9,736
    edited February 28
    Taz said:

    DavidL said:

    After watching PMQs nobody is doing anything to enhance the reputation of the HOC and it is clear that this can only change, though I would not hold my breath, by an early GE

    It seems the SNP led vonc on the Speaker, notwithstanding Plaid endorsing it, is fizzing out and time to move on on this

    And on Angela Rayner I fail to understand what she is accused of

    The accusation is that she has pocketed the capital gain from the sale of her council tax claiming an exemption that she was not entitled to as by then she lived somewhere else with her husband. Its rubbish. It was her primary residence when she bought it, it was until she was married, she did not claim an exemption for any other property that year and she is entitled not to have paid CGT on her gain.

    Also hypocrisy over buying the council house as well at a discount, given her stance the policy.

    A bit like a politician espousing the joys of state schools and sending their offspring to private.

    We expect too much of our politicians if we expect consistency of view and them not to be hypocritical.
    That's not necessarily hypocritical.

    She may believe 1) that the right-to-buy is a wrong policy 2) but it does not follow that individuals, including herself, should not partake in it. Same with private schools. Her criticisms in both cases are against government policy not individual legal choice and utility-maximisation.
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    TazTaz Posts: 11,289

    DavidL said:

    Taz said:

    DavidL said:

    After watching PMQs nobody is doing anything to enhance the reputation of the HOC and it is clear that this can only change, though I would not hold my breath, by an early GE

    It seems the SNP led vonc on the Speaker, notwithstanding Plaid endorsing it, is fizzing out and time to move on on this

    And on Angela Rayner I fail to understand what she is accused of

    The accusation is that she has pocketed the capital gain from the sale of her council tax claiming an exemption that she was not entitled to as by then she lived somewhere else with her husband. Its rubbish. It was her primary residence when she bought it, it was until she was married, she did not claim an exemption for any other property that year and she is entitled not to have paid CGT on her gain.

    Also hypocrisy over buying the council house as well at a discount, given her stance the policy.

    A bit like a politician espousing the joys of state schools and sending their offspring to private.

    We expect too much of our politicians if we expect consistency of view and them not to be hypocritical.
    I think we should be much more forgiving and welcome her to the ranks of the Tory scum who exploit public assets for private gain.
    I imagine there will be a large number applying to that club once Labour get into power, just like there was last time.
    And the people now loudly and vociferously condeming the Tories will be meekly defending and justifying the Labour excesses.
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,787

    Taz said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Taz said:

    Harry has lost his high court case re his security when visiting the UK

    Oh Dear
    How Sad
    Never Mind
    I think this one is much more important (financially & otherwise) than the papers one, or would that be wrong ?
    Looks as if it will curtail his visits especially with Megan
    Oh No.

    Gutted.

    Perhaps he could always dip into his bank accounts and pay for it himself. There's a thought.
    It’s not just a money issue.

    IIRC the government cannot rent out armed police services and he’s not able to bring his own armed security as they would be arrested for possessing guns.
    If only he could have the same privacy as extended to the Princess of Wales...
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    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 15,414
    Pulpstar said:

    After watching PMQs nobody is doing anything to enhance the reputation of the HOC and it is clear that this can only change, though I would not hold my breath, by an early GE

    It seems the SNP led vonc on the Speaker, notwithstanding Plaid endorsing it, is fizzing out and time to move on on this

    And on Angela Rayner I fail to understand what she is accused of

    I think she is accused of being a raving hypocrite is she not? One could also accuse her of being a lightweight who would struggle to get a job in lower middle management in the real world, which would also be true, but the reality is that she is a left wing Labour politician so both are neither surprising or particularly unusual for her ilk.
    In what way has she been hypocritical?
    I am sure there are plenty of examples, but the most obvious is buying her council house and selling at a profit alongside her partner doing the same whilst criticising the policy that she did not need to take advantage of. Sounds rank hypocrisy to me that is pretty difficult to top.

    Do people who want to vote in a load of hypocrites and lightweights care? Probably not.
    She supports RTB and has said so on several occasions. Where is the hypocrisy exactly?
    I guess she is annoyed that she and her partner/husband didn't get the 60% discount on their two council homes that they profiteered from. She has done a good spinning job since she was found out I must say. She is a hypocrite, but you don't want to see it I guess.

    I have a bridge to sell, by the way, and I'll give you a discount similar to Ms. Lightweight got for her houses.
    The bit about "Right to buy" I've never understood is the sale discount to market rate. The tenant should have the right to buy but at a market rate.
    With Jezza's new 1% mortgages this should be more than possible for many tenants, giving both the benefits of home ownership for the tenant and stopping the beggaring of councils.
    The discount is a recognition of the rent paid over many years by the tenant. If councils had been able to use the proceeds to build replacement council housing then we wouldn't have the current housing crisis.
  • Options
    bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 7,792
    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    DavidL said:

    After watching PMQs nobody is doing anything to enhance the reputation of the HOC and it is clear that this can only change, though I would not hold my breath, by an early GE

    It seems the SNP led vonc on the Speaker, notwithstanding Plaid endorsing it, is fizzing out and time to move on on this

    And on Angela Rayner I fail to understand what she is accused of

    The accusation is that she has pocketed the capital gain from the sale of her council tax claiming an exemption that she was not entitled to as by then she lived somewhere else with her husband. Its rubbish. It was her primary residence when she bought it, it was until she was married, she did not claim an exemption for any other property that year and she is entitled not to have paid CGT on her gain.

    Also hypocrisy over buying the council house as well at a discount, given her stance the policy.

    A bit like a politician espousing the joys of state schools and sending their offspring to private.

    We expect too much of our politicians if we expect consistency of view and them not to be hypocritical.
    There is no hypocrisy in believing the system should be changed, but living under the rules of the current system. I think we should switch to STV for elections; I am not a hypocrite if I vote in an FPTP election. I think people at my earning level should pay more tax; I am not a hypocrite if I don’t voluntarily give extra money to HMRC.
    There is a difference. They are choosing to personally gain from the system they dislike.

    You are not doing so by voting in an election.
    I am benefitting from current taxation levels being lower than I think they should be.
  • Options
    Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 13,791

    After watching PMQs nobody is doing anything to enhance the reputation of the HOC and it is clear that this can only change, though I would not hold my breath, by an early GE

    It seems the SNP led vonc on the Speaker, notwithstanding Plaid endorsing it, is fizzing out and time to move on on this

    And on Angela Rayner I fail to understand what she is accused of

    I think she is accused of being a raving hypocrite is she not? One could also accuse her of being a lightweight who would struggle to get a job in lower middle management in the real world, which would also be true, but the reality is that she is a left wing Labour politician so both are neither surprising or particularly unusual for her ilk.
    In what way has she been hypocritical?
    I am sure there are plenty of examples, but the most obvious is buying her council house and selling at a profit alongside her partner doing the same whilst criticising the policy that she did not need to take advantage of. Sounds rank hypocrisy to me that is pretty difficult to top.

    Do people who want to vote in a load of hypocrites and lightweights care? Probably not.
    She supports RTB and has said so on several occasions. Where is the hypocrisy exactly?
    I guess she is annoyed that she and her partner/husband didn't get the 60% discount on their two council homes that they profiteered from. She has done a good spinning job since she was found out I must say. She is a hypocrite, but you don't want to see it I guess.

    I have a bridge to sell, by the way, and I'll give you a discount similar to Ms. Lightweight got for her houses.
    In what sense has she been hypocritical?

    I ask again – simple question.
    I answered it, but you don't want to see it. It is quite sad the tribalism of our politics when hypocrisy is something that is only ever done by "the other side."

    If you don't think that when a senior (lol) Labour politician profits immensely from not one but two council house sales, a policy that they have routinely attacked for many years, is being a fecking big hypocrite then I am not surprised that you clearly have a great deal of difficulty understanding what hypocrisy is.

    The closest similarity would be a Brexiteer Tory taking up Irish nationality to get round the stupidity of Brexit.

    I am sure you would see the hypocrisy of that position.
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    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,941

    viewcode said:

    Selebian said:

    TimS said:

    TOPPING said:

    Selebian said:

    TOPPING said:

    Apparently Israel is going to supply early warning systems for detecting drone and missile attacks to Ukraine. A consequence for Russia siding with Hamas.

    That will be a total head fuck, taking sides-wise, for just about everyone on PB.
    Russia bad. Hamas bad. That's simple enough, isn't it?

    I know Israel are now supporting Ukraine, but hey, we've dealt with such mindfucks as the French supporting Ukraine. We can handle this. :wink:
    Russia bad. Hamas noble, oppressed, democratically-elected freedom fighters seems to be the norm for many if not most PB posters.
    You tend to hear the strongest views on this from the shoutiest most opinionated posters. I would assume the majority view is Russia bad, Hamas bad, Israel (Netanyahu) bad, Ukraine good.
    I work on the 'everyone bad' mindset. Brings a simply clarity to geopolitics. In any conflict, the bad fight the bad (as fighting is bad) and it's no surprise that the bad support the bad or - being bad - are bad friends and fail to support the bad or, indeed, turn round and support the other bad side :wink:
    I wonder if Terry Pratchett had a saying for such an occasion :)
    ‘if you want to understan’ an enemy, you gotta walk a mile in his shoes. Den, if he’s still you enemy, at least you’re a mile away and he’s got no shoes.’
    “I believe you find life such a problem because you think there are good people and bad people. You're wrong, of course. There are, always and only, the bad people, but some of them are on opposite sides.” ― Terry Pratchett, "Guards! Guards!"
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 20,127
    Stocky said:

    Taz said:

    DavidL said:

    After watching PMQs nobody is doing anything to enhance the reputation of the HOC and it is clear that this can only change, though I would not hold my breath, by an early GE

    It seems the SNP led vonc on the Speaker, notwithstanding Plaid endorsing it, is fizzing out and time to move on on this

    And on Angela Rayner I fail to understand what she is accused of

    The accusation is that she has pocketed the capital gain from the sale of her council tax claiming an exemption that she was not entitled to as by then she lived somewhere else with her husband. Its rubbish. It was her primary residence when she bought it, it was until she was married, she did not claim an exemption for any other property that year and she is entitled not to have paid CGT on her gain.

    Also hypocrisy over buying the council house as well at a discount, given her stance the policy.

    A bit like a politician espousing the joys of state schools and sending their offspring to private.

    We expect too much of our politicians if we expect consistency of view and them not to be hypocritical.
    That's not necessarily hypocritical.

    She may believe 1) that the right-to-buy is a wrong policy 2) but it does not follow that individuals, including herself, should not partake in it. Same with private schools. Her criticisms in both cases are against government policy not individual legal choice and utility-maximisation.
    Yes and... she supports the RTB (just not the 60% discount AIUI)
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,787

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/feb/28/more-than-half-of-tory-members-in-poll-say-islam-a-threat-to-british-way-of-life

    Quite a revealing poll on the depth of anti-muslim opinions and other eyebrow raising views among Tory members. Scary to think that this extremist group put some of the last few prime ministers in office with no input from the wider electorate.

    That’s a terrifying poll, with MAGA levels of delusion among Conservative Party members, believing conspiracy theory nonsense about parts of cities being under Sharia law. Levels of such beliefs are lower in the country as a whole, but there were still 30% endorsing this view.

    Reality matters. How do we build a political culture based on reality, not conspiracy? It would be good if Sunak tackled this head on. Explicitly say there aren’t no-go areas or areas ruled by Sharia law, that the Conservative Party embraces its Muslim candidates, that Islam is part of the rich fabric of British life along with his own Hinduism, Suella Braverman’s Buddhism, James Cleverly’s atheism, Kate Forbes’ Calvinism, etc.

    Although the worst part of the poll isn’t about Islam, it’s the anti-Roma prejudice!
    Perhaps the term 'no-go area' is being interpreted too literally and a better word to use would be ghetto.
    I liked this little list of London "no-go" areas:

    https://twitter.com/sharonodea/status/1762399243803697355?t=yy6B5MSVdOLnhERgJCynRw&s=19
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,941

    After watching PMQs nobody is doing anything to enhance the reputation of the HOC and it is clear that this can only change, though I would not hold my breath, by an early GE

    It seems the SNP led vonc on the Speaker, notwithstanding Plaid endorsing it, is fizzing out and time to move on on this

    And on Angela Rayner I fail to understand what she is accused of

    The Rayner story appears to be a contradiction between what she told the Parliamentary expenses committee was her second home, and what she told HMRC was her primary residence for capital gains tax purposes. It’s 2009 all over again!
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    bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 7,792
    edited February 28
    deleted - others have said the same
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,126

    TimS said:

    Selebian said:

    TimS said:

    TOPPING said:

    Selebian said:

    TOPPING said:

    Apparently Israel is going to supply early warning systems for detecting drone and missile attacks to Ukraine. A consequence for Russia siding with Hamas.

    That will be a total head fuck, taking sides-wise, for just about everyone on PB.
    Russia bad. Hamas bad. That's simple enough, isn't it?

    I know Israel are now supporting Ukraine, but hey, we've dealt with such mindfucks as the French supporting Ukraine. We can handle this. :wink:
    Russia bad. Hamas noble, oppressed, democratically-elected freedom fighters seems to be the norm for many if not most PB posters.
    You tend to hear the strongest views on this from the shoutiest most opinionated posters. I would assume the majority view is Russia bad, Hamas bad, Israel (Netanyahu) bad, Ukraine good.
    I work on the 'everyone bad' mindset. Brings a simply clarity to geopolitics. In any conflict, the bad fight the bad (as fighting is bad) and it's no surprise that the bad support the bad or - being bad - are bad friends and fail to support the bad or, indeed, turn round and support the other bad side :wink:
    All as bad as each other is rather what Russia would like the world (particularly the West) to believe. It encourages leaders to abandon Ukraine.
    Thus Puntinists such as Donald Trump directly pimping for Putin . . . and Putinists like Boris Johnson (and his PB peanut gallery) indirectly pimping by backing Trump.
    The reality is that your compatriots are highly likely to elect Donald Trump. It's not in Ukraine's interests to frame the election as a referendum on support for Ukraine. You are being a useful idiot for Russia if you do so.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,549

    Pulpstar said:

    After watching PMQs nobody is doing anything to enhance the reputation of the HOC and it is clear that this can only change, though I would not hold my breath, by an early GE

    It seems the SNP led vonc on the Speaker, notwithstanding Plaid endorsing it, is fizzing out and time to move on on this

    And on Angela Rayner I fail to understand what she is accused of

    I think she is accused of being a raving hypocrite is she not? One could also accuse her of being a lightweight who would struggle to get a job in lower middle management in the real world, which would also be true, but the reality is that she is a left wing Labour politician so both are neither surprising or particularly unusual for her ilk.
    In what way has she been hypocritical?
    I am sure there are plenty of examples, but the most obvious is buying her council house and selling at a profit alongside her partner doing the same whilst criticising the policy that she did not need to take advantage of. Sounds rank hypocrisy to me that is pretty difficult to top.

    Do people who want to vote in a load of hypocrites and lightweights care? Probably not.
    She supports RTB and has said so on several occasions. Where is the hypocrisy exactly?
    I guess she is annoyed that she and her partner/husband didn't get the 60% discount on their two council homes that they profiteered from. She has done a good spinning job since she was found out I must say. She is a hypocrite, but you don't want to see it I guess.

    I have a bridge to sell, by the way, and I'll give you a discount similar to Ms. Lightweight got for her houses.
    The bit about "Right to buy" I've never understood is the sale discount to market rate. The tenant should have the right to buy but at a market rate.
    With Jezza's new 1% mortgages this should be more than possible for many tenants, giving both the benefits of home ownership for the tenant and stopping the beggaring of councils.
    The discount is a recognition of the rent paid over many years by the tenant. If councils had been able to use the proceeds to build replacement council housing then we wouldn't have the current housing crisis.
    The building rate would still have been too low.
  • Options
    Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 13,791

    Delicious Tele tears.


    They are right though. It is quite absurd. Not just with respect to Scotland but other nations as well with Scotland being the worst bender of the residency rules. The "Scotland" rugby team only has 48% of its players born in Scotland. Without their players that have zero connection with Scotland other than living there for three years, they would be below Italy.
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,242
    edited February 28
    Say what you like about Trump, but he's never harassed a humpback whale while riding a jetski.
    As far as I know..



  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 20,127

    After watching PMQs nobody is doing anything to enhance the reputation of the HOC and it is clear that this can only change, though I would not hold my breath, by an early GE

    It seems the SNP led vonc on the Speaker, notwithstanding Plaid endorsing it, is fizzing out and time to move on on this

    And on Angela Rayner I fail to understand what she is accused of

    I think she is accused of being a raving hypocrite is she not? One could also accuse her of being a lightweight who would struggle to get a job in lower middle management in the real world, which would also be true, but the reality is that she is a left wing Labour politician so both are neither surprising or particularly unusual for her ilk.
    In what way has she been hypocritical?
    I am sure there are plenty of examples, but the most obvious is buying her council house and selling at a profit alongside her partner doing the same whilst criticising the policy that she did not need to take advantage of. Sounds rank hypocrisy to me that is pretty difficult to top.

    Do people who want to vote in a load of hypocrites and lightweights care? Probably not.
    She supports RTB and has said so on several occasions. Where is the hypocrisy exactly?
    I guess she is annoyed that she and her partner/husband didn't get the 60% discount on their two council homes that they profiteered from. She has done a good spinning job since she was found out I must say. She is a hypocrite, but you don't want to see it I guess.

    I have a bridge to sell, by the way, and I'll give you a discount similar to Ms. Lightweight got for her houses.
    In what sense has she been hypocritical?

    I ask again – simple question.
    I answered it, but you don't want to see it. It is quite sad the tribalism of our politics when hypocrisy is something that is only ever done by "the other side."

    If you don't think that when a senior (lol) Labour politician profits immensely from not one but two council house sales, a policy that they have routinely attacked for many years, is being a fecking big hypocrite then I am not surprised that you clearly have a great deal of difficulty understanding what hypocrisy is.

    The closest similarity would be a Brexiteer Tory taking up Irish nationality to get round the stupidity of Brexit.

    I am sure you would see the hypocrisy of that position.
    Can you show me where she has attacked the RTB as a policy?

    N.B. The policy – not the 60% discount – which she didn't benefit from in any case. She got it at the old discount of 25%.

    Again, I ask you: where has she been hypocritical? A simple citation of her hypocrisy will do.

    (Put up or shut up, to use the vernacular)
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,549

    .

    To give Leon a history lesson around 20 years ago white supremacists were putting nail bombs outside gay bars whilst Tories were defending Section 28 and preventing its repeal.

    To quote one of my gay friends, if right wing wankers want to use Muslims and gays to try and cause discord they can get in the fucking sea.

    He would like you to be aware of the homophobic abuse and near assault he and his partner experienced in The Village in 2019 from white guys.

    He hailed a passing taxi to get the hell out of dodge, driver could see they were both shaken up, they told him what happened, he took them home for free.

    Taxi driver was a Pakistani heritage chap.

    I understand your concern with around simple binary representations on this, and do you not think there is still an issue with Islamist extremism in this country?

    One that can sometimes not be about support for violence but about support for values at odds with our own when it comes to inclusiveness, free speech and free association?
    Of course there is a problem with Islamist extremism but you don't defeat it by tarring a Muslim Mayor as an Islamist because you don't like his policies.

    I think plenty of us called his naming policy for the overground lines as stupid.

    We have a Muslim mayor who the Chief Rabbi has called a friend of Jews by word and deed, the same mayor who regularly attends pride events, do you think it will help matters by tarring him as an Islamist?

    No, we need to focus on Islamists rather sowing division.

    Right now, Leon, Lee Anderson et al are managing to achieve what my mother and countless imams have failed to do, and actually make me feel like a Muslim, and that's not a good thing.

    I've called out homophobia out in my community, using the words of my father, if Allah didn't want gay people he would stop making them, as I've called out homophobia from non Muslims.

    I also point tolerance in this country that allows them to follow their religion freely is the same tolerance that allows homosexuals to be homosexuals.

    Depending how brave I am I may also throw in that observation that history has shown some of the biggest homophobes are so far in the closet they are having adventures in Narnia.
    Point of order - the point of Narnia was *leaving* the closet, Shirley?
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,242

    Delicious Tele tears.


    They are right though. It is quite absurd. Not just with respect to Scotland but other nations as well with Scotland being the worst bender of the residency rules. The "Scotland" rugby team only has 48% of its players born in Scotland. Without their players that have zero connection with Scotland other than living there for three years, they would be below Italy.
    I'll add your dessicated little emission to the brimming cup.
  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,275
    148grss said:

    148grss said:

    There's a great part in Pratchett's Going Postal where a character describes the con the men who own the Grand Trunk are playing - I don't have the book in front of me, but it's along the lines of: you see an asset that could turn a profit that is currently owned by people who care about the asset as a system and not an asset and therefore do not have a head for business. As someone who wants to turn a profit, you approach these men with no heads for business and say you want to invest in that asset. They agree, always wanting money to spend tinkering in their sheds to improve the systems they care about, and sign your documents. Eventually, you run out of that first bit of money, so when they say they're happy to invest again you sign again without question. But this time you've sold more than a 50% share in the asset, so you no longer own it, and now people with heads for business are in charge and they don't care if the system works - they care that it makes money. So maintenance stops, because that's a cost that doesn't return short term profit, and the system is always pushed to breaking point to make the most money off of it. They bought it dirt cheap, they suck it dry whilst running it into the ground, and they'll also likely make a profit selling it off afterwards to another rube or to the state who need the system to exist for the functioning of society.

    Anyway, I give this extremely long preface (apologies as always @TOPPING) to share this unrelated news:

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/live/2024/feb/28/thames-water-lobbying-higher-bills-lower-fines-avoid-bailout-report-claims-somerset-gigafactory-bridgend-tata-us-gdp-business-live

    Unfortunately, Thatcher read Going Postal and decided to turn it into party policy. Which explains the state of our infrastructure.
    Well as Going Postal was written in 2004 that seems a bit unlikely.

    What it does illustrate, once again, is just how sharp a commentator Pratchett was. Just as with the Vimes's Boot theory. That literary snobs dismissed one of Britain's greatest writers says more about them than anything else. I heard a great story from his later years, of paying a bill of multiple 10's of thousands, with some loose money from a pocket, such was his wealth at that point.
    I did my undergraduate and post graduate dissertations on Pratchett - if you or any PBers want to fund my PhD (in this world of telling art students that they have low value degrees), I'd happily take your grant monies (although you may dislike my verbose writing style and my views of Pratchett as a good leftist satirist). I would argue that (alongside the theory people) Pratchett is the most influential writer on my political thought.
    I disagree - he was a great leftist writer! Wife and I attended the last Discworld convention in 2022 and will be going again. So sad he was taken before his time.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,368
    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Selebian said:

    TimS said:

    TOPPING said:

    Selebian said:

    TOPPING said:

    Apparently Israel is going to supply early warning systems for detecting drone and missile attacks to Ukraine. A consequence for Russia siding with Hamas.

    That will be a total head fuck, taking sides-wise, for just about everyone on PB.
    Russia bad. Hamas bad. That's simple enough, isn't it?

    I know Israel are now supporting Ukraine, but hey, we've dealt with such mindfucks as the French supporting Ukraine. We can handle this. :wink:
    Russia bad. Hamas noble, oppressed, democratically-elected freedom fighters seems to be the norm for many if not most PB posters.
    You tend to hear the strongest views on this from the shoutiest most opinionated posters. I would assume the majority view is Russia bad, Hamas bad, Israel (Netanyahu) bad, Ukraine good.
    I work on the 'everyone bad' mindset. Brings a simply clarity to geopolitics. In any conflict, the bad fight the bad (as fighting is bad) and it's no surprise that the bad support the bad or - being bad - are bad friends and fail to support the bad or, indeed, turn round and support the other bad side :wink:
    I wonder if Terry Pratchett had a saying for such an occasion :)
    ‘if you want to understan’ an enemy, you gotta walk a mile in his shoes. Den, if he’s still you enemy, at least you’re a mile away and he’s got no shoes.’
    “I believe you find life such a problem because you think there are good people and bad people. You're wrong, of course. There are, always and only, the bad people, but some of them are on opposite sides.” ― Terry Pratchett, "Guards! Guards!"
    Was that Lord Vetinari? Sounds like him. A brilliant character.
  • Options
    bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 7,792

    TimS said:

    Selebian said:

    TimS said:

    TOPPING said:

    Selebian said:

    TOPPING said:

    Apparently Israel is going to supply early warning systems for detecting drone and missile attacks to Ukraine. A consequence for Russia siding with Hamas.

    That will be a total head fuck, taking sides-wise, for just about everyone on PB.
    Russia bad. Hamas bad. That's simple enough, isn't it?

    I know Israel are now supporting Ukraine, but hey, we've dealt with such mindfucks as the French supporting Ukraine. We can handle this. :wink:
    Russia bad. Hamas noble, oppressed, democratically-elected freedom fighters seems to be the norm for many if not most PB posters.
    You tend to hear the strongest views on this from the shoutiest most opinionated posters. I would assume the majority view is Russia bad, Hamas bad, Israel (Netanyahu) bad, Ukraine good.
    I work on the 'everyone bad' mindset. Brings a simply clarity to geopolitics. In any conflict, the bad fight the bad (as fighting is bad) and it's no surprise that the bad support the bad or - being bad - are bad friends and fail to support the bad or, indeed, turn round and support the other bad side :wink:
    All as bad as each other is rather what Russia would like the world (particularly the West) to believe. It encourages leaders to abandon Ukraine.
    Thus Puntinists such as Donald Trump directly pimping for Putin . . . and Putinists like Boris Johnson (and his PB peanut gallery) indirectly pimping by backing Trump.
    The reality is that your compatriots are highly likely to elect Donald Trump. It's not in Ukraine's interests to frame the election as a referendum on support for Ukraine. You are being a useful idiot for Russia if you do so.
    So, Donald Trump is anti-Ukraine, but we’re harming Ukraine if we point this out?
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,941

    Taz said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Taz said:

    Harry has lost his high court case re his security when visiting the UK

    Oh Dear
    How Sad
    Never Mind
    I think this one is much more important (financially & otherwise) than the papers one, or would that be wrong ?
    Looks as if it will curtail his visits especially with Megan
    Oh No.

    Gutted.

    Perhaps he could always dip into his bank accounts and pay for it himself. There's a thought.
    It’s not just a money issue.

    IIRC the government cannot rent out armed police services and he’s not able to bring his own armed security as they would be arrested for possessing guns.
    And private security don’t have the intelligence (in many ways) that the police do - although the Met do their best to disprove that.

    He’s slowly realising that decisions have consequences, and if he doesn’t want to be a royal then he doesn’t get the perks of being a royal.

    Obviously if there was a genuine threat against him, the police would work with him as they work with anyone else in the public eye. But that’s not what he wants, or more specifically what his wife wants. She wants the full motorcade and roads closed for them to go around the block, as they can buy from police in the US.
  • Options
    Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 13,791

    After watching PMQs nobody is doing anything to enhance the reputation of the HOC and it is clear that this can only change, though I would not hold my breath, by an early GE

    It seems the SNP led vonc on the Speaker, notwithstanding Plaid endorsing it, is fizzing out and time to move on on this

    And on Angela Rayner I fail to understand what she is accused of

    I think she is accused of being a raving hypocrite is she not? One could also accuse her of being a lightweight who would struggle to get a job in lower middle management in the real world, which would also be true, but the reality is that she is a left wing Labour politician so both are neither surprising or particularly unusual for her ilk.
    In what way has she been hypocritical?
    I am sure there are plenty of examples, but the most obvious is buying her council house and selling at a profit alongside her partner doing the same whilst criticising the policy that she did not need to take advantage of. Sounds rank hypocrisy to me that is pretty difficult to top.

    Do people who want to vote in a load of hypocrites and lightweights care? Probably not.
    She supports RTB and has said so on several occasions. Where is the hypocrisy exactly?
    I guess she is annoyed that she and her partner/husband didn't get the 60% discount on their two council homes that they profiteered from. She has done a good spinning job since she was found out I must say. She is a hypocrite, but you don't want to see it I guess.

    I have a bridge to sell, by the way, and I'll give you a discount similar to Ms. Lightweight got for her houses.
    In what sense has she been hypocritical?

    I ask again – simple question.
    I answered it, but you don't want to see it. It is quite sad the tribalism of our politics when hypocrisy is something that is only ever done by "the other side."

    If you don't think that when a senior (lol) Labour politician profits immensely from not one but two council house sales, a policy that they have routinely attacked for many years, is being a fecking big hypocrite then I am not surprised that you clearly have a great deal of difficulty understanding what hypocrisy is.

    The closest similarity would be a Brexiteer Tory taking up Irish nationality to get round the stupidity of Brexit.

    I am sure you would see the hypocrisy of that position.
    Can you show me where she has attacked the RTB as a policy?

    N.B. The policy – not the 60% discount – which she didn't benefit from in any case. She got it at the old discount of 25%.

    Again, I ask you: where has she been hypocritical? A simple citation of her hypocrisy will do.

    (Put up or shut up, to use the vernacular)
    Sorry, I don't have the time or ability to persuade you because you clearly are a tribalist simpleton who wouldn't call her out if she was found out secretly sent her children to Eton and was caught jumping up and down shouting "fuck you lot of plebs, I am going to be deputy Prime minister".
  • Options
    AlsoLeiAlsoLei Posts: 646

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/feb/28/more-than-half-of-tory-members-in-poll-say-islam-a-threat-to-british-way-of-life

    Quite a revealing poll on the depth of anti-muslim opinions and other eyebrow raising views among Tory members. Scary to think that this extremist group put some of the last few prime ministers in office with no input from the wider electorate.

    That’s a terrifying poll, with MAGA levels of delusion among Conservative Party members, believing conspiracy theory nonsense about parts of cities being under Sharia law. Levels of such beliefs are lower in the country as a whole, but there were still 30% endorsing this view.

    Reality matters. How do we build a political culture based on reality, not conspiracy? It would be good if Sunak tackled this head on. Explicitly say there aren’t no-go areas or areas ruled by Sharia law, that the Conservative Party embraces its Muslim candidates, that Islam is part of the rich fabric of British life along with his own Hinduism, Suella Braverman’s Buddhism, James Cleverly’s atheism, Kate Forbes’ Calvinism, etc.

    Although the worst part of the poll isn’t about Islam, it’s the anti-Roma prejudice!
    Perhaps the term 'no-go area' is being interpreted too literally and a better word to use would be ghetto.
    But 'ghetto', used in the traditional pre-Nazi sense, means an area where immigrant communities are most able to settle. It's the opposite of a 'no-go area'.

    Why use the words 'no-go area' to refer to places that are the opposite?
  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 15,414

    Pulpstar said:

    After watching PMQs nobody is doing anything to enhance the reputation of the HOC and it is clear that this can only change, though I would not hold my breath, by an early GE

    It seems the SNP led vonc on the Speaker, notwithstanding Plaid endorsing it, is fizzing out and time to move on on this

    And on Angela Rayner I fail to understand what she is accused of

    I think she is accused of being a raving hypocrite is she not? One could also accuse her of being a lightweight who would struggle to get a job in lower middle management in the real world, which would also be true, but the reality is that she is a left wing Labour politician so both are neither surprising or particularly unusual for her ilk.
    In what way has she been hypocritical?
    I am sure there are plenty of examples, but the most obvious is buying her council house and selling at a profit alongside her partner doing the same whilst criticising the policy that she did not need to take advantage of. Sounds rank hypocrisy to me that is pretty difficult to top.

    Do people who want to vote in a load of hypocrites and lightweights care? Probably not.
    She supports RTB and has said so on several occasions. Where is the hypocrisy exactly?
    I guess she is annoyed that she and her partner/husband didn't get the 60% discount on their two council homes that they profiteered from. She has done a good spinning job since she was found out I must say. She is a hypocrite, but you don't want to see it I guess.

    I have a bridge to sell, by the way, and I'll give you a discount similar to Ms. Lightweight got for her houses.
    The bit about "Right to buy" I've never understood is the sale discount to market rate. The tenant should have the right to buy but at a market rate.
    With Jezza's new 1% mortgages this should be more than possible for many tenants, giving both the benefits of home ownership for the tenant and stopping the beggaring of councils.
    The discount is a recognition of the rent paid over many years by the tenant. If councils had been able to use the proceeds to build replacement council housing then we wouldn't have the current housing crisis.
    The building rate would still have been too low.
    I think more than two million properties have been bought under right-to-buy. An extra two million properties constructed would have made a huge difference.

    What would you say was the shortfall in number of housing units at present?
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,941

    Taz said:

    Apparently Israel is going to supply early warning systems for detecting drone and missile attacks to Ukraine. A consequence for Russia siding with Hamas.

    Russia is battering Ukraine at the moment anyway. Ukraine needs far more than that.
    Ukraine certainly do need more support, but they did manage to shoot down a pair of Russian jets yesterday, so not everything is going Russia's way.
    There’s clearly some new anti-aircraft tech now in the field, as there’s been a lot of Russian planes lost in the last couple of weeks. We’ve not seen the F16s yet either, which should change the game further.
  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,275
    Roger said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/feb/28/more-than-half-of-tory-members-in-poll-say-islam-a-threat-to-british-way-of-life

    Quite a revealing poll on the depth of anti-muslim opinions and other eyebrow raising views among Tory members. Scary to think that this extremist group put some of the last few prime ministers in office with no input from the wider electorate.

    Extraordinary. Next time you meet a Tory Party Member I'd suggest you give them a wide berth
    Might be instructive to ask why they think this? And also to correlate against how many muslims they actually know? I'd suspect the more they no, the less of a problem they think Islam will be.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,368
    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Taz said:

    Harry has lost his high court case re his security when visiting the UK

    Oh Dear
    How Sad
    Never Mind
    I think this one is much more important (financially & otherwise) than the papers one, or would that be wrong ?
    Looks as if it will curtail his visits especially with Megan
    Oh No.

    Gutted.

    Perhaps he could always dip into his bank accounts and pay for it himself. There's a thought.
    It’s not just a money issue.

    IIRC the government cannot rent out armed police services and he’s not able to bring his own armed security as they would be arrested for possessing guns.
    And private security don’t have the intelligence (in many ways) that the police do - although the Met do their best to disprove that.

    He’s slowly realising that decisions have consequences, and if he doesn’t want to be a royal then he doesn’t get the perks of being a royal.

    Obviously if there was a genuine threat against him, the police would work with him as they work with anyone else in the public eye. But that’s not what he wants, or more specifically what his wife wants. She wants the full motorcade and roads closed for them to go around the block, as they can buy from police in the US.
    The Metropolitan Police Service and Intelligence.

    I will need to think about that for a bit.
  • Options
    Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 13,791
    Taz said:

    Here's one for @Leon

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/entertainment/news/west-end-tells-white-theatregoers-they-aren-t-welcome-as-it-hosts-all-black-audience-nights-at-kit-harrington-play-to-protect-ticketholders-from-the-white-gaze/ar-BB1j2bNs

    This stuff I cannot get annoyed it, can't say I care greatly at not being welcome at a play I had never even heard of, but I do find it comical.

    Will my Irish ancestry count?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCrKVaQXsmo
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,941

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/feb/28/more-than-half-of-tory-members-in-poll-say-islam-a-threat-to-british-way-of-life

    Quite a revealing poll on the depth of anti-muslim opinions and other eyebrow raising views among Tory members. Scary to think that this extremist group put some of the last few prime ministers in office with no input from the wider electorate.

    That’s a terrifying poll, with MAGA levels of delusion among Conservative Party members, believing conspiracy theory nonsense about parts of cities being under Sharia law. Levels of such beliefs are lower in the country as a whole, but there were still 30% endorsing this view.

    Reality matters. How do we build a political culture based on reality, not conspiracy? It would be good if Sunak tackled this head on. Explicitly say there aren’t no-go areas or areas ruled by Sharia law, that the Conservative Party embraces its Muslim candidates, that Islam is part of the rich fabric of British life along with his own Hinduism, Suella Braverman’s Buddhism, James Cleverly’s atheism, Kate Forbes’ Calvinism, etc.

    Although the worst part of the poll isn’t about Islam, it’s the anti-Roma prejudice!
    GB News, The Sun, The Daily Mail, The Guardian were reporting on illegal Sharia courts in the UK 14 years ago.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2009/jun/29/sharia-courts-illegal-advice-claims
  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 15,414
    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    Apparently Israel is going to supply early warning systems for detecting drone and missile attacks to Ukraine. A consequence for Russia siding with Hamas.

    Russia is battering Ukraine at the moment anyway. Ukraine needs far more than that.
    Ukraine certainly do need more support, but they did manage to shoot down a pair of Russian jets yesterday, so not everything is going Russia's way.
    There’s clearly some new anti-aircraft tech now in the field, as there’s been a lot of Russian planes lost in the last couple of weeks. We’ve not seen the F16s yet either, which should change the game further.
    There was a period a while ago when Russia were using their planes more aggressively and lost quite a few, but then they held them back. I think it's most likely that they've been putting them more at risk again to make the most of the current window of opportunity which has been created by the GOP blocking further US support to Ukraine.
  • Options
    Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 13,791

    Delicious Tele tears.


    They are right though. It is quite absurd. Not just with respect to Scotland but other nations as well with Scotland being the worst bender of the residency rules. The "Scotland" rugby team only has 48% of its players born in Scotland. Without their players that have zero connection with Scotland other than living there for three years, they would be below Italy.
    I'll add your dessicated little emission to the brimming cup.
    I don't mind England losing to the Murrayfield Barbarian team, its nice they get to win something, bless, particularly after all the whinging and baby-crying about the disallowed try.

    Looking forward to seeing Ireland take them apart.

    When Scotland win a top level tournament or cup you can crow about it.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,549
    a

    Pulpstar said:

    After watching PMQs nobody is doing anything to enhance the reputation of the HOC and it is clear that this can only change, though I would not hold my breath, by an early GE

    It seems the SNP led vonc on the Speaker, notwithstanding Plaid endorsing it, is fizzing out and time to move on on this

    And on Angela Rayner I fail to understand what she is accused of

    I think she is accused of being a raving hypocrite is she not? One could also accuse her of being a lightweight who would struggle to get a job in lower middle management in the real world, which would also be true, but the reality is that she is a left wing Labour politician so both are neither surprising or particularly unusual for her ilk.
    In what way has she been hypocritical?
    I am sure there are plenty of examples, but the most obvious is buying her council house and selling at a profit alongside her partner doing the same whilst criticising the policy that she did not need to take advantage of. Sounds rank hypocrisy to me that is pretty difficult to top.

    Do people who want to vote in a load of hypocrites and lightweights care? Probably not.
    She supports RTB and has said so on several occasions. Where is the hypocrisy exactly?
    I guess she is annoyed that she and her partner/husband didn't get the 60% discount on their two council homes that they profiteered from. She has done a good spinning job since she was found out I must say. She is a hypocrite, but you don't want to see it I guess.

    I have a bridge to sell, by the way, and I'll give you a discount similar to Ms. Lightweight got for her houses.
    The bit about "Right to buy" I've never understood is the sale discount to market rate. The tenant should have the right to buy but at a market rate.
    With Jezza's new 1% mortgages this should be more than possible for many tenants, giving both the benefits of home ownership for the tenant and stopping the beggaring of councils.
    The discount is a recognition of the rent paid over many years by the tenant. If councils had been able to use the proceeds to build replacement council housing then we wouldn't have the current housing crisis.
    The building rate would still have been too low.
    I think more than two million properties have been bought under right-to-buy. An extra two million properties constructed would have made a huge difference.

    What would you say was the shortfall in number of housing units at present?
    8 million+

    Consider France - similar population, 8 million more properties.

    I want a lake town on Lake Windermere. For the LOLs. And we could make it beautiful.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,787

    After watching PMQs nobody is doing anything to enhance the reputation of the HOC and it is clear that this can only change, though I would not hold my breath, by an early GE

    It seems the SNP led vonc on the Speaker, notwithstanding Plaid endorsing it, is fizzing out and time to move on on this

    And on Angela Rayner I fail to understand what she is accused of

    I think she is accused of being a raving hypocrite is she not? One could also accuse her of being a lightweight who would struggle to get a job in lower middle management in the real world, which would also be true, but the reality is that she is a left wing Labour politician so both are neither surprising or particularly unusual for her ilk.
    In what way has she been hypocritical?
    I am sure there are plenty of examples, but the most obvious is buying her council house and selling at a profit alongside her partner doing the same whilst criticising the policy that she did not need to take advantage of. Sounds rank hypocrisy to me that is pretty difficult to top.

    Do people who want to vote in a load of hypocrites and lightweights care? Probably not.
    She supports RTB and has said so on several occasions. Where is the hypocrisy exactly?
    I guess she is annoyed that she and her partner/husband didn't get the 60% discount on their two council homes that they profiteered from. She has done a good spinning job since she was found out I must say. She is a hypocrite, but you don't want to see it I guess.

    I have a bridge to sell, by the way, and I'll give you a discount similar to Ms. Lightweight got for her houses.
    In what sense has she been hypocritical?

    I ask again – simple question.
    I answered it, but you don't want to see it. It is quite sad the tribalism of our politics when hypocrisy is something that is only ever done by "the other side."

    If you don't think that when a senior (lol) Labour politician profits immensely from not one but two council house sales, a policy that they have routinely attacked for many years, is being a fecking big hypocrite then I am not surprised that you clearly have a great deal of difficulty understanding what hypocrisy is.

    The closest similarity would be a Brexiteer Tory taking up Irish nationality to get round the stupidity of Brexit.

    I am sure you would see the hypocrisy of that position.
    Can you show me where she has attacked the RTB as a policy?

    N.B. The policy – not the 60% discount – which she didn't benefit from in any case. She got it at the old discount of 25%.

    Again, I ask you: where has she been hypocritical? A simple citation of her hypocrisy will do.

    (Put up or shut up, to use the vernacular)
    Sorry, I don't have the time or ability to persuade you because you clearly are a tribalist simpleton who wouldn't call her out if she was found out secretly sent her children to Eton and was caught jumping up and down shouting "fuck you lot of plebs, I am going to be deputy Prime minister".
    You lost the argument then.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,549
    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    Apparently Israel is going to supply early warning systems for detecting drone and missile attacks to Ukraine. A consequence for Russia siding with Hamas.

    Russia is battering Ukraine at the moment anyway. Ukraine needs far more than that.
    Ukraine certainly do need more support, but they did manage to shoot down a pair of Russian jets yesterday, so not everything is going Russia's way.
    There’s clearly some new anti-aircraft tech now in the field, as there’s been a lot of Russian planes lost in the last couple of weeks. We’ve not seen the F16s yet either, which should change the game further.
    The Ukrainians have been getting inventive with SAM traps, apparently.
  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,956
    edited February 28
    Pulpstar said:

    Mortimer said:

    This tends to suggest that the only main potential movement back to the Conservatives are their don't knows. Both Conservative to Labour and Conservative to Reform switchers appear to have gone.

    Are the Conservatives focusing on retaining those don't knows, or are their current policies and approach focused on another section of the electorate?

    My feeling is the more in common report doesn't capture the scale of the Conservative voter strike, and the depth of their feeling. Many activists I know think Sunak is hopeless and aren't prepared to help what many see as too 'big-government' a government get reelected.

    This will only be worse after May, when the councillor base will likely be much smaller too.
    The losses if it's council only elections in May will be bad, but my suspicion is they'd be worse if there was a GE as the "extra" turnout will be more favourable to Labour.
    Would be interesting to see how many incumbent Tory councillors are actually Labour facing. My experience in Dorset is LDs vote whenever, whatever, however the weather. Labour and Tory voters are less likely to turn out for local elections.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,986
    edited February 28

    Pulpstar said:

    After watching PMQs nobody is doing anything to enhance the reputation of the HOC and it is clear that this can only change, though I would not hold my breath, by an early GE

    It seems the SNP led vonc on the Speaker, notwithstanding Plaid endorsing it, is fizzing out and time to move on on this

    And on Angela Rayner I fail to understand what she is accused of

    I think she is accused of being a raving hypocrite is she not? One could also accuse her of being a lightweight who would struggle to get a job in lower middle management in the real world, which would also be true, but the reality is that she is a left wing Labour politician so both are neither surprising or particularly unusual for her ilk.
    In what way has she been hypocritical?
    I am sure there are plenty of examples, but the most obvious is buying her council house and selling at a profit alongside her partner doing the same whilst criticising the policy that she did not need to take advantage of. Sounds rank hypocrisy to me that is pretty difficult to top.

    Do people who want to vote in a load of hypocrites and lightweights care? Probably not.
    She supports RTB and has said so on several occasions. Where is the hypocrisy exactly?
    I guess she is annoyed that she and her partner/husband didn't get the 60% discount on their two council homes that they profiteered from. She has done a good spinning job since she was found out I must say. She is a hypocrite, but you don't want to see it I guess.

    I have a bridge to sell, by the way, and I'll give you a discount similar to Ms. Lightweight got for her houses.
    The bit about "Right to buy" I've never understood is the sale discount to market rate. The tenant should have the right to buy but at a market rate.
    With Jezza's new 1% mortgages this should be more than possible for many tenants, giving both the benefits of home ownership for the tenant and stopping the beggaring of councils.
    The discount is a recognition of the rent paid over many years by the tenant. If councils had been able to use the proceeds to build replacement council housing then we wouldn't have the current housing crisis.
    The building rate would still have been too low.
    I think more than two million properties have been bought under right-to-buy. An extra two million properties constructed would have made a huge difference.

    What would you say was the shortfall in number of housing units at present?
    People qualify for RTB after 3 years. The average weekly social rent is £119* (7% onto *). There's no way on God's green earth that tots up to the 35 -> 50%** discount of the average council house/flat value once you've deducted hypothecated finance costs (Council finance costs are very real) and maintenance.

    * https://www.statista.com/statistics/291807/average-mean-weekly-rent-of-social-renters-in-england-uk-y-on-y/

    ** https://www.gov.uk/right-to-buy-buying-your-council-home/discounts.

    The finances might just about work in somewhere like Horden (Thanks Bald and Bankrupt ;) ), but for any city particularly the south they'll be horrendous.
  • Options
    carnforthcarnforth Posts: 3,234
    AlsoLei said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/feb/28/more-than-half-of-tory-members-in-poll-say-islam-a-threat-to-british-way-of-life

    Quite a revealing poll on the depth of anti-muslim opinions and other eyebrow raising views among Tory members. Scary to think that this extremist group put some of the last few prime ministers in office with no input from the wider electorate.

    That’s a terrifying poll, with MAGA levels of delusion among Conservative Party members, believing conspiracy theory nonsense about parts of cities being under Sharia law. Levels of such beliefs are lower in the country as a whole, but there were still 30% endorsing this view.

    Reality matters. How do we build a political culture based on reality, not conspiracy? It would be good if Sunak tackled this head on. Explicitly say there aren’t no-go areas or areas ruled by Sharia law, that the Conservative Party embraces its Muslim candidates, that Islam is part of the rich fabric of British life along with his own Hinduism, Suella Braverman’s Buddhism, James Cleverly’s atheism, Kate Forbes’ Calvinism, etc.

    Although the worst part of the poll isn’t about Islam, it’s the anti-Roma prejudice!
    Perhaps the term 'no-go area' is being interpreted too literally and a better word to use would be ghetto.
    But 'ghetto', used in the traditional pre-Nazi sense, means an area where immigrant communities are most able to settle. It's the opposite of a 'no-go area'.

    Why use the words 'no-go area' to refer to places that are the opposite?
    IIRC, "no-go area" was originally used to mean a part of the city or country where law enforcement would not go, for fear of their own safety.

    There are places in this country I wouldn't walk around holding hands with another man, and Sparkhill is one of them, but that's a slightly different thing.
  • Options
    bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 7,792
    Sandpit said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/feb/28/more-than-half-of-tory-members-in-poll-say-islam-a-threat-to-british-way-of-life

    Quite a revealing poll on the depth of anti-muslim opinions and other eyebrow raising views among Tory members. Scary to think that this extremist group put some of the last few prime ministers in office with no input from the wider electorate.

    That’s a terrifying poll, with MAGA levels of delusion among Conservative Party members, believing conspiracy theory nonsense about parts of cities being under Sharia law. Levels of such beliefs are lower in the country as a whole, but there were still 30% endorsing this view.

    Reality matters. How do we build a political culture based on reality, not conspiracy? It would be good if Sunak tackled this head on. Explicitly say there aren’t no-go areas or areas ruled by Sharia law, that the Conservative Party embraces its Muslim candidates, that Islam is part of the rich fabric of British life along with his own Hinduism, Suella Braverman’s Buddhism, James Cleverly’s atheism, Kate Forbes’ Calvinism, etc.

    Although the worst part of the poll isn’t about Islam, it’s the anti-Roma prejudice!
    GB News, The Sun, The Daily Mail, The Guardian were reporting on illegal Sharia courts in the UK 14 years ago.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2009/jun/29/sharia-courts-illegal-advice-claims
    That doesn’t demonstrate parts of cities being under Sharia law. It demonstrates individuals choosing to go down a path of arbitration. The Government published a review of the matter in 2018: you would do well to read the Executive Summary — https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5a750e8040f0b6397f35d531/6.4152_HO_CPFG_Report_into_Sharia_Law_in_the_UK_WEB.pdf
  • Options
    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,686

    Delicious Tele tears.


    They are right though. It is quite absurd. Not just with respect to Scotland but other nations as well with Scotland being the worst bender of the residency rules. The "Scotland" rugby team only has 48% of its players born in Scotland. Without their players that have zero connection with Scotland other than living there for three years, they would be below Italy.
    I'll add your dessicated little emission to the brimming cup.
    I don't mind England losing to the Murrayfield Barbarian team, its nice they get to win something, bless, particularly after all the whinging and baby-crying about the disallowed try.

    Looking forward to seeing Ireland take them apart.

    When Scotland win a top level tournament or cup you can crow about it.
    Morningside posh lads versus Home Counties posh lads.

  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,061

    Taz said:

    Apparently Israel is going to supply early warning systems for detecting drone and missile attacks to Ukraine. A consequence for Russia siding with Hamas.

    Russia is battering Ukraine at the moment anyway. Ukraine needs far more than that.
    Ukraine certainly do need more support, but they did manage to shoot down a pair of Russian jets yesterday, so not everything is going Russia's way.
    I've reported similar recently, but I fear some caution is required. There is very little evidence of these fighter-bombers being shot down; just claims. Unlike, say, the AWACS plane that Ukraine got last week. They may be hitting them over Russian territory (as expected from the way they're being used as missile platforms) and the Russians hiding videos of the shootdowns and/or wreckage, but it's happening too often, and as the AWACS plane showed; Russia is not good at withholding information on such things.

    I really, really hope I'm wrong.
  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 15,414

    a

    Pulpstar said:

    After watching PMQs nobody is doing anything to enhance the reputation of the HOC and it is clear that this can only change, though I would not hold my breath, by an early GE

    It seems the SNP led vonc on the Speaker, notwithstanding Plaid endorsing it, is fizzing out and time to move on on this

    And on Angela Rayner I fail to understand what she is accused of

    I think she is accused of being a raving hypocrite is she not? One could also accuse her of being a lightweight who would struggle to get a job in lower middle management in the real world, which would also be true, but the reality is that she is a left wing Labour politician so both are neither surprising or particularly unusual for her ilk.
    In what way has she been hypocritical?
    I am sure there are plenty of examples, but the most obvious is buying her council house and selling at a profit alongside her partner doing the same whilst criticising the policy that she did not need to take advantage of. Sounds rank hypocrisy to me that is pretty difficult to top.

    Do people who want to vote in a load of hypocrites and lightweights care? Probably not.
    She supports RTB and has said so on several occasions. Where is the hypocrisy exactly?
    I guess she is annoyed that she and her partner/husband didn't get the 60% discount on their two council homes that they profiteered from. She has done a good spinning job since she was found out I must say. She is a hypocrite, but you don't want to see it I guess.

    I have a bridge to sell, by the way, and I'll give you a discount similar to Ms. Lightweight got for her houses.
    The bit about "Right to buy" I've never understood is the sale discount to market rate. The tenant should have the right to buy but at a market rate.
    With Jezza's new 1% mortgages this should be more than possible for many tenants, giving both the benefits of home ownership for the tenant and stopping the beggaring of councils.
    The discount is a recognition of the rent paid over many years by the tenant. If councils had been able to use the proceeds to build replacement council housing then we wouldn't have the current housing crisis.
    The building rate would still have been too low.
    I think more than two million properties have been bought under right-to-buy. An extra two million properties constructed would have made a huge difference.

    What would you say was the shortfall in number of housing units at present?
    8 million+

    Consider France - similar population, 8 million more properties.

    I want a lake town on Lake Windermere. For the LOLs. And we could make it beautiful.
    Okay. Two million would be a decent start, but, yes, not the main substance of the issue.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,941
    Pulpstar said:

    After watching PMQs nobody is doing anything to enhance the reputation of the HOC and it is clear that this can only change, though I would not hold my breath, by an early GE

    It seems the SNP led vonc on the Speaker, notwithstanding Plaid endorsing it, is fizzing out and time to move on on this

    And on Angela Rayner I fail to understand what she is accused of

    I think she is accused of being a raving hypocrite is she not? One could also accuse her of being a lightweight who would struggle to get a job in lower middle management in the real world, which would also be true, but the reality is that she is a left wing Labour politician so both are neither surprising or particularly unusual for her ilk.
    In what way has she been hypocritical?
    I am sure there are plenty of examples, but the most obvious is buying her council house and selling at a profit alongside her partner doing the same whilst criticising the policy that she did not need to take advantage of. Sounds rank hypocrisy to me that is pretty difficult to top.

    Do people who want to vote in a load of hypocrites and lightweights care? Probably not.
    She supports RTB and has said so on several occasions. Where is the hypocrisy exactly?
    I guess she is annoyed that she and her partner/husband didn't get the 60% discount on their two council homes that they profiteered from. She has done a good spinning job since she was found out I must say. She is a hypocrite, but you don't want to see it I guess.

    I have a bridge to sell, by the way, and I'll give you a discount similar to Ms. Lightweight got for her houses.
    The bit about "Right to buy" I've never understood is the sale discount to market rate. The tenant should have the right to buy but at a market rate.
    With Jezza's new 1% mortgages this should be more than possible for many tenants, giving both the benefits of home ownership for the tenant and stopping the beggaring of councils.
    I think the idea was to give someone who’s been renting from the council for 20 years, the same financial position as someone who’d been paying a mortgage for 20 years.

    The basic problem remains that the population has increased more than the housing stock for several decades.
  • Options
    AlsoLeiAlsoLei Posts: 646
    edited February 28

    Pulpstar said:

    After watching PMQs nobody is doing anything to enhance the reputation of the HOC and it is clear that this can only change, though I would not hold my breath, by an early GE

    It seems the SNP led vonc on the Speaker, notwithstanding Plaid endorsing it, is fizzing out and time to move on on this

    And on Angela Rayner I fail to understand what she is accused of

    I think she is accused of being a raving hypocrite is she not? One could also accuse her of being a lightweight who would struggle to get a job in lower middle management in the real world, which would also be true, but the reality is that she is a left wing Labour politician so both are neither surprising or particularly unusual for her ilk.
    In what way has she been hypocritical?
    I am sure there are plenty of examples, but the most obvious is buying her council house and selling at a profit alongside her partner doing the same whilst criticising the policy that she did not need to take advantage of. Sounds rank hypocrisy to me that is pretty difficult to top.

    Do people who want to vote in a load of hypocrites and lightweights care? Probably not.
    She supports RTB and has said so on several occasions. Where is the hypocrisy exactly?
    I guess she is annoyed that she and her partner/husband didn't get the 60% discount on their two council homes that they profiteered from. She has done a good spinning job since she was found out I must say. She is a hypocrite, but you don't want to see it I guess.

    I have a bridge to sell, by the way, and I'll give you a discount similar to Ms. Lightweight got for her houses.
    The bit about "Right to buy" I've never understood is the sale discount to market rate. The tenant should have the right to buy but at a market rate.
    With Jezza's new 1% mortgages this should be more than possible for many tenants, giving both the benefits of home ownership for the tenant and stopping the beggaring of councils.
    The discount is a recognition of the rent paid over many years by the tenant. If councils had been able to use the proceeds to build replacement council housing then we wouldn't have the current housing crisis.
    The building rate would still have been too low.
    I think more than two million properties have been bought under right-to-buy. An extra two million properties constructed would have made a huge difference.

    What would you say was the shortfall in number of housing units at present?
    Someone here pointed out a few months ago that France - which is extremely close to use in terms of population, family structure, and economy - has around 8 million more dwellings than UK.

    I do agree that council housebuilding capacity shouldn't have been destroyed by Thatcher - two million extra properties would be a great help with the current situation but would be unlikely to solve the problem by itself.

    I think we've pushed the housing situation so close to the precipice that we can no longer afford to quibble about where exactly the new homes come from. Open every tap, pull every lever - get building, no matter what.
  • Options
    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,686
    AlsoLei said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/feb/28/more-than-half-of-tory-members-in-poll-say-islam-a-threat-to-british-way-of-life

    Quite a revealing poll on the depth of anti-muslim opinions and other eyebrow raising views among Tory members. Scary to think that this extremist group put some of the last few prime ministers in office with no input from the wider electorate.

    That’s a terrifying poll, with MAGA levels of delusion among Conservative Party members, believing conspiracy theory nonsense about parts of cities being under Sharia law. Levels of such beliefs are lower in the country as a whole, but there were still 30% endorsing this view.

    Reality matters. How do we build a political culture based on reality, not conspiracy? It would be good if Sunak tackled this head on. Explicitly say there aren’t no-go areas or areas ruled by Sharia law, that the Conservative Party embraces its Muslim candidates, that Islam is part of the rich fabric of British life along with his own Hinduism, Suella Braverman’s Buddhism, James Cleverly’s atheism, Kate Forbes’ Calvinism, etc.

    Although the worst part of the poll isn’t about Islam, it’s the anti-Roma prejudice!
    Perhaps the term 'no-go area' is being interpreted too literally and a better word to use would be ghetto.
    But 'ghetto', used in the traditional pre-Nazi sense, means an area where immigrant communities are most able to settle. It's the opposite of a 'no-go area'.

    Why use the words 'no-go area' to refer to places that are the opposite?
    I'm not aware of any no-go areas in Bradford. Plenty of don't-want-to-go areas though.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,986
    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    After watching PMQs nobody is doing anything to enhance the reputation of the HOC and it is clear that this can only change, though I would not hold my breath, by an early GE

    It seems the SNP led vonc on the Speaker, notwithstanding Plaid endorsing it, is fizzing out and time to move on on this

    And on Angela Rayner I fail to understand what she is accused of

    I think she is accused of being a raving hypocrite is she not? One could also accuse her of being a lightweight who would struggle to get a job in lower middle management in the real world, which would also be true, but the reality is that she is a left wing Labour politician so both are neither surprising or particularly unusual for her ilk.
    In what way has she been hypocritical?
    I am sure there are plenty of examples, but the most obvious is buying her council house and selling at a profit alongside her partner doing the same whilst criticising the policy that she did not need to take advantage of. Sounds rank hypocrisy to me that is pretty difficult to top.

    Do people who want to vote in a load of hypocrites and lightweights care? Probably not.
    She supports RTB and has said so on several occasions. Where is the hypocrisy exactly?
    I guess she is annoyed that she and her partner/husband didn't get the 60% discount on their two council homes that they profiteered from. She has done a good spinning job since she was found out I must say. She is a hypocrite, but you don't want to see it I guess.

    I have a bridge to sell, by the way, and I'll give you a discount similar to Ms. Lightweight got for her houses.
    The bit about "Right to buy" I've never understood is the sale discount to market rate. The tenant should have the right to buy but at a market rate.
    With Jezza's new 1% mortgages this should be more than possible for many tenants, giving both the benefits of home ownership for the tenant and stopping the beggaring of councils.
    I think the idea was to give someone who’s been renting from the council for 20 years, the same financial position as someone who’d been paying a mortgage for 20 years.

    The basic problem remains that the population has increased more than the housing stock for several decades.
    As I've posted below I can't see how the calculations remotely work out. The discount should probably be lower in the first 3-5 years and higher than 2% thereafter if that's the aim of the policy.
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    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,686
    FF43 said:

    Sunak at PMQs accuses Starmer of "sniping from the sidelines". Isn't the LOTOs job description to snipe from the sidelines?

    To snipe from the front line surely?
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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,549
    a
    carnforth said:

    AlsoLei said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/feb/28/more-than-half-of-tory-members-in-poll-say-islam-a-threat-to-british-way-of-life

    Quite a revealing poll on the depth of anti-muslim opinions and other eyebrow raising views among Tory members. Scary to think that this extremist group put some of the last few prime ministers in office with no input from the wider electorate.

    That’s a terrifying poll, with MAGA levels of delusion among Conservative Party members, believing conspiracy theory nonsense about parts of cities being under Sharia law. Levels of such beliefs are lower in the country as a whole, but there were still 30% endorsing this view.

    Reality matters. How do we build a political culture based on reality, not conspiracy? It would be good if Sunak tackled this head on. Explicitly say there aren’t no-go areas or areas ruled by Sharia law, that the Conservative Party embraces its Muslim candidates, that Islam is part of the rich fabric of British life along with his own Hinduism, Suella Braverman’s Buddhism, James Cleverly’s atheism, Kate Forbes’ Calvinism, etc.

    Although the worst part of the poll isn’t about Islam, it’s the anti-Roma prejudice!
    Perhaps the term 'no-go area' is being interpreted too literally and a better word to use would be ghetto.
    But 'ghetto', used in the traditional pre-Nazi sense, means an area where immigrant communities are most able to settle. It's the opposite of a 'no-go area'.

    Why use the words 'no-go area' to refer to places that are the opposite?
    IIRC, "no-go area" was originally used to mean a part of the city or country where law enforcement would not go, for fear of their own safety.

    There are places in this country I wouldn't walk around holding hands with another man, and Sparkhill is one of them, but that's a slightly different thing.
    My wife has pointed out that I walk through areas that she wouldn't dream of going, after dark.

    The local Free School meant quite a bit of interesting levels of mixing. One lad, from the local estate was popular and had his birthday at his home. So a convoy of middle class parents drove their cars, nervously, into one of the estate areas to drop off their children.

    Apparently, the young man in question got some scared/admiring comments from neighbours on the estate - the local gangs are mostly bike riding, but his crew ride in 100K cars.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,941

    Sandpit said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/feb/28/more-than-half-of-tory-members-in-poll-say-islam-a-threat-to-british-way-of-life

    Quite a revealing poll on the depth of anti-muslim opinions and other eyebrow raising views among Tory members. Scary to think that this extremist group put some of the last few prime ministers in office with no input from the wider electorate.

    That’s a terrifying poll, with MAGA levels of delusion among Conservative Party members, believing conspiracy theory nonsense about parts of cities being under Sharia law. Levels of such beliefs are lower in the country as a whole, but there were still 30% endorsing this view.

    Reality matters. How do we build a political culture based on reality, not conspiracy? It would be good if Sunak tackled this head on. Explicitly say there aren’t no-go areas or areas ruled by Sharia law, that the Conservative Party embraces its Muslim candidates, that Islam is part of the rich fabric of British life along with his own Hinduism, Suella Braverman’s Buddhism, James Cleverly’s atheism, Kate Forbes’ Calvinism, etc.

    Although the worst part of the poll isn’t about Islam, it’s the anti-Roma prejudice!
    GB News, The Sun, The Daily Mail, The Guardian were reporting on illegal Sharia courts in the UK 14 years ago.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2009/jun/29/sharia-courts-illegal-advice-claims
    That doesn’t demonstrate parts of cities being under Sharia law. It demonstrates individuals choosing to go down a path of arbitration. The Government published a review of the matter in 2018: you would do well to read the Executive Summary — https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5a750e8040f0b6397f35d531/6.4152_HO_CPFG_Report_into_Sharia_Law_in_the_UK_WEB.pdf
    I got as far as:

    A key finding was that a significant number of Muslim couples fail to civilly register their religious marriages and therefore some Muslim women have no option of obtaining a civil divorce.”

    before the actual problem at hand made sense to me.
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    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,420
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/feb/28/more-than-half-of-tory-members-in-poll-say-islam-a-threat-to-british-way-of-life

    Quite a revealing poll on the depth of anti-muslim opinions and other eyebrow raising views among Tory members. Scary to think that this extremist group put some of the last few prime ministers in office with no input from the wider electorate.

    That’s a terrifying poll, with MAGA levels of delusion among Conservative Party members, believing conspiracy theory nonsense about parts of cities being under Sharia law. Levels of such beliefs are lower in the country as a whole, but there were still 30% endorsing this view.

    Reality matters. How do we build a political culture based on reality, not conspiracy? It would be good if Sunak tackled this head on. Explicitly say there aren’t no-go areas or areas ruled by Sharia law, that the Conservative Party embraces its Muslim candidates, that Islam is part of the rich fabric of British life along with his own Hinduism, Suella Braverman’s Buddhism, James Cleverly’s atheism, Kate Forbes’ Calvinism, etc.

    Although the worst part of the poll isn’t about Islam, it’s the anti-Roma prejudice!
    GB News, The Sun, The Daily Mail, The Guardian were reporting on illegal Sharia courts in the UK 14 years ago.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2009/jun/29/sharia-courts-illegal-advice-claims
    That doesn’t demonstrate parts of cities being under Sharia law. It demonstrates individuals choosing to go down a path of arbitration. The Government published a review of the matter in 2018: you would do well to read the Executive Summary — https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5a750e8040f0b6397f35d531/6.4152_HO_CPFG_Report_into_Sharia_Law_in_the_UK_WEB.pdf
    I got as far as:

    A key finding was that a significant number of Muslim couples fail to civilly register their religious marriages and therefore some Muslim women have no option of obtaining a civil divorce.”

    before the actual problem at hand made sense to me.
    If the marriage isn't registered then they're not married?
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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,549

    FF43 said:

    Sunak at PMQs accuses Starmer of "sniping from the sidelines". Isn't the LOTOs job description to snipe from the sidelines?

    To snipe from the front line surely?
    {Hesketh-Prichard has entered the chat}
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    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,275

    Delicious Tele tears.


    They are right though. It is quite absurd. Not just with respect to Scotland but other nations as well with Scotland being the worst bender of the residency rules. The "Scotland" rugby team only has 48% of its players born in Scotland. Without their players that have zero connection with Scotland other than living there for three years, they would be below Italy.
    When you think that poor Graeme Hick had to wait seven years to qualify for England back in the day. I do wonder just how much passion for their adopted countries these players have. Or is it more just to be able to play at the highest level, irrespective of not being your 'true' nationality.

    Now everyone is different and plenty of people have multiple identities, but I have only English and could never think to represent another country. Have these players taken UK citizenship? If not, how committed are they to the country?
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