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London is becoming a no go area for the Tories – politicalbetting.com

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Comments

  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,127
    edited February 28

    Taz said:

    Foxy said:

    As long as the Cons fail to see the multiple issues ordinary people face in just getting by daily then they will continue to decline, and going "full Trump" is certainly not going to arrest that decline. Susan Hall is an awful, harsh sounding candidate and will fail. In the GE they may hang on in a couple of seats, but it's not going to be good for them at all.

    The longer they leave it the worse it will be for them.

    The Tories hate everything about London: it's young university educated population, its cosmopolitan neighbourhoods, its liberality, its impoverished poor, its culture. They offer nothing to alleviate the hardship of the housing situation, or to support the people. Why would they get votes here with their neanderthal nativism?
    I hate London's homophobia

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/londoners-less-tolerant-of-gay-or-transgender-children-polls-reveals-10119183.html
    I see those of us in the North, and the Scots, are the most accepting. Listening to some people here you'd think us northerners were a mass of hatred and bigotry and the south were the enlightened ones.


    Facts versus opinion/guess.
    To be fair u suspect the circles most posters move in are pretty socially liberal.

    They just fail to recognise that multiculturalism has facilitated the implantation of less tolerant cultures
    Is London in 2015 more homophobic and transphobic than London in 1955, when it was much more monoculture?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,701

    Leon said:

    Am I in a 787 or a 777, i dunno

    PB travel boffs please decide

    However I just asked the dude here serving my seat and he says this is a whole new Biz Class configuration for Air France. I am on one of the first ever flights. And it is bloody good

    Rather private, endless excellent booze, good selection of movies, Michelin one-rosette food (if not quite Eva), this is the first European flyer that, to me, stands toe to toe with the Emirates/East Asian airlines

    Definitely ahead of BA, miles better than Lufthansa/SwissAir etc

    The French are going for it

    But it is Air France.

    Air France pilots are under scrutiny after a series of incidents that have raised concerns over safety protocols on flights operated by the French flagship carrier, prompting aviation investigators to reprimand the airline last week.

    The latest incident to come to light involved two pilots who were suspended after a physical fight in the cockpit of an A320 plane in flight from Geneva to Paris in June, a spokesman for Air France said Monday, confirming a report in the French newspaper La Tribune. He added that the flight continued on and landed safely.

    The news of the fight has come amid broader concerns about flight safety at Air France. A few days ago, French investigators issued a report saying the airline’s pilots lacked rigor in following safety procedures.

    Investigators said several recent incidents suggested “that a certain culture has been established among some Air France crews, favoring a propensity to underestimate the benefits of a strict application of procedures for safety.”


    https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/29/world/europe/air-france-safety.html
    Air Chance.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,565

    HMRC slammed as phone line waits get even longer
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68413088

    HMRC lets wealthy use VIP helpline to avoid long waits
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/hmrc-vip-helpline-high-earners-nine-times-faster-8rdjfb99n (£££)

    A tale of two headlines. PBers will be shocked to learn that ministers and senior civil servants get the VIP number.

    They have no incentive to improve things when they can simply exist in a Potemkin reality where everything works.
    To be fair, 16 minutes is bloody fast compared with most of the private sector helplines that I encounter. I once tried to cancel a Norton subscription, which you can't do online - after an hour waiting, I gave up and simply replaced the account details with a non-existent bank account. Let them sue me.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,187

    Morning all,

    Worrying result for Biden in Michigan. He needs a ceasefire asap.

    Gazans need a ceasefire ASAP.

    Biden is clearly over 80%, and "uncommitted" seems to be not much higher than it was when Obama ran for reelection?
    The 'uncommitted' vote numbers weren't ideal for him, but they've been seriously overhyped.

    Trump has more reason to be concerned about the significant vote Haley is still getting, despite is being clear that she's no chance of getting the nomination (unless events take him out of the running completely).
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,899

    @Leon : I don't know if you saw this, r if it was covered on PB yesterday, but the owners of the Crooked House have been ordered to rebuild it.

    https://twitter.com/andy4wm/status/1762442547220099419

    Not that I think it'll happen, though... :(

    Sure it wouldn’t pass muster with the building inspectors…
    I understand grandfather rights apply to old buildings - for instance, insulation requirements for windows do not necessarily have to apply to some listed buildings, which can be a pain for homeowners who want the extra insulation double-glazing gives. Or an even bigger pain if the planners insist on wooden-frame double-glazing.

    I've no idea if grandfather rights would apply to this sort of rebuild - I'd have guessed they would. It'd probably be a negotiation, and what we'll end up with is something that we'll be told has the 'character' of the original building. Despite 'character' often being granted from the age...

    (I'm not even sure 'grandfather rights' is the correct term...)
    It's quite interesting around listings.

    If you're historic building has a horrible 1970s conservatory on it when listed, that is part of the listing.

    There is a concept of repair & maintenance, where you can eg do work on a wall without needing to upgrade to current standards. That gets grey and potentially exploitable around sequencing ("my grandfathers axe"), for example if a 2m front garden wall is removed and replaced with a new one an authority could try and insist on it being 1m in accordance with modern regulations.

    I have seen self-builders get into trouble when they wanted to have eg a new garage or shed in the same place, and tried to argue either that they were preserving an existing one, or removed the existing one before they had PP and it was then treated as not being there.

    There are enough grey areas for a restoration to status quo ante, which I think is the phrase.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,865

    Morning all,

    Worrying result for Biden in Michigan. He needs a ceasefire asap.

    Gazans need a ceasefire ASAP.

    Biden is clearly over 80%, and "uncommitted" seems to be not much higher than it was when Obama ran for reelection?
    Gaza's representatives, Hamas, made it clear yesterday that on current terms they have no intention of either ceasing to fire or releasing the hostages so despite the horror of events they plough remorselessly on. This is not good for Gazans, nor a sensible policy politically. World opinion has moved on the issue and it is time for proper talks. Israel's government is of course terrible too, but there is no shortage of attention given to that already. The silence of the left on the faults of Hamas both in the past and today is revealing.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,583
    Heathener said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Am I in a 787 or a 777, i dunno

    PB travel boffs please decide

    However I just asked the dude here serving my seat and he says this is a whole new Biz Class configuration for Air France. I am on one of the first ever flights. And it is bloody good

    Rather private, endless excellent booze, good selection of movies, Michelin one-rosette food (if not quite Eva), this is the first European flyer that, to me, stands toe to toe with the Emirates/East Asian airlines

    Definitely ahead of BA, miles better than Lufthansa/SwissAir etc

    The French are going for it

    Well you’re either on AF253 from Ho Chi Min to Paris, currently over NW India, or you’re on AF153 from Bangkok to Paris, a few hundred miles behind it - which are a 777-200 and 777-300 respectively today. No Dreamliner for Leon.

    Oh, and it’s Air France, which is good enough reason to choose another airline. I’ll perhaps fly with them in another lifetime, when they’ve changed their culture and stopped killing their customers.
    Many of us globetrot without being so needy as to trumpet it on pb.

    Perhaps I’m the only one who finds it tiresome and irrelevant to the purposes of this forum. But objectively, and for the benefit of attracting a younger newer audience, it turns it into a saddo’s facebook, which is also for people of a certain age.

    One of the great lessons in life is to learn when it’s time to leave the stage.
    Ta-ra
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,989
    TOPPING said:

    Taz said:

    Foxy said:

    As long as the Cons fail to see the multiple issues ordinary people face in just getting by daily then they will continue to decline, and going "full Trump" is certainly not going to arrest that decline. Susan Hall is an awful, harsh sounding candidate and will fail. In the GE they may hang on in a couple of seats, but it's not going to be good for them at all.

    The longer they leave it the worse it will be for them.

    The Tories hate everything about London: it's young university educated population, its cosmopolitan neighbourhoods, its liberality, its impoverished poor, its culture. They offer nothing to alleviate the hardship of the housing situation, or to support the people. Why would they get votes here with their neanderthal nativism?
    I hate London's homophobia

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/londoners-less-tolerant-of-gay-or-transgender-children-polls-reveals-10119183.html
    I see those of us in the North, and the Scots, are the most accepting. Listening to some people here you'd think us northerners were a mass of hatred and bigotry and the south were the enlightened ones.

    Facts versus opinion/guess.
    According to @Foxy, the bigotry is:

    "mostly down to homophobia and transphobia amongst some socially conservative communities overrepresented in London demographics"

    Whatever that means.
    What it means is the stereotype of Londoners as metropolitan, tolerant and liberal is as false as the notion provincial England is socially conservative if not reactionary.

    There are intolerant people in London just as there are intolerant people everywhere. There are strong socially conservative communities in many parts of the capital - among devoutly religious groups including Christian evangelicals, Muslims, Hindus, Jews etc for example. Of course you don't have to be religious or have strong personal faith to be socially conservative not does having faith mean you can't be socially liberal but without wishing to over-generalise..

    All this does (rightly) is challenge preconceptions or misconceptions about London. Newham for example has fewer atheists and agnostics than almost anywhere else. Faith is very important - which faith is another matter and I wouldn't want to overstate this but evangelical churches are noticeable here with a new one for the Latin American community having recently opened off the Barking Road.
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,670
    edited February 28
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    On topic: I just want to report that I am in the new Air France Business Class 777 Dreamliner thingy, and the seats apparently move automatically


    WHOAHHHH

    It's the doors moving automatically you need to keep an eye out for, especially at 30,000 feet.
    UPDATE: THEY DON’T MOVE AUTOMATICALLY

    I just accidentally squished the move-seat button with my iPad

    Je suis idiot

    However, I can report that their new Biz Class offering is very good, so far. Lovely little cabinettes, vintage champagne in the lounge and on the plane, slightly disappointing “bags of things” but not dismal

    Yet to try the food tho. I know PB is agog so I’ll keep you all updated
    Tangential first class travel story incoming. Feel free to skip it.

    Just before lockdown I ended up teaching the cabin crew in BA First the correct orientation in which to serve a Tarte Tatin.

    They were trying to somehow get it out of the little foil tray in which it was cooked (apple-side-down, pastry-up, as you'd expect) and manage to serve it in the same apple-side-down manner. This was, obviously, quite hard. Once I'd shown them a picture of one on a plate, they cooked another. When it literally just turned out onto the dish and the caramel oozed in the appropriate manner, they were stunned.

    They'd struggled with this for *more than one flight*, it turned out

    ETA: I've not flown anywhere since. I used to fly hundreds of hours a year for business, and loved the few hours I had in a cocoon, away from everything. Plane Internet is a great and also terrible invention.
  • 148grss148grss Posts: 4,155
    Nigelb said:

    Morning all,

    Worrying result for Biden in Michigan. He needs a ceasefire asap.

    Gazans need a ceasefire ASAP.

    Biden is clearly over 80%, and "uncommitted" seems to be not much higher than it was when Obama ran for reelection?
    The 'uncommitted' vote numbers weren't ideal for him, but they've been seriously overhyped.

    Trump has more reason to be concerned about the significant vote Haley is still getting, despite is being clear that she's no chance of getting the nomination (unless events take him out of the running completely).
    They are on par with similar primaries from the POV of %, although overall turnout was greater. But Biden only just won the first time against Trump - he can't afford to lose too many voters. And now he is the incumbent and this election will be a referendum on his time in office, not on Trump's.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,187
    MattW said:

    @Leon : I don't know if you saw this, r if it was covered on PB yesterday, but the owners of the Crooked House have been ordered to rebuild it.

    https://twitter.com/andy4wm/status/1762442547220099419

    Not that I think it'll happen, though... :(

    Sure it wouldn’t pass muster with the building inspectors…
    I understand grandfather rights apply to old buildings - for instance, insulation requirements for windows do not necessarily have to apply to some listed buildings, which can be a pain for homeowners who want the extra insulation double-glazing gives. Or an even bigger pain if the planners insist on wooden-frame double-glazing.

    I've no idea if grandfather rights would apply to this sort of rebuild - I'd have guessed they would. It'd probably be a negotiation, and what we'll end up with is something that we'll be told has the 'character' of the original building. Despite 'character' often being granted from the age...

    (I'm not even sure 'grandfather rights' is the correct term...)
    It's quite interesting around listings.

    If you're historic building has a horrible 1970s conservatory on it when listed, that is part of the listing.

    There is a concept of repair & maintenance, where you can eg do work on a wall without needing to upgrade to current standards. That gets grey and potentially exploitable around sequencing ("my grandfathers axe"), for example if a 2m front garden wall is removed and replaced with a new one an authority could try and insist on it being 1m in accordance with modern regulations.

    I have seen self-builders get into trouble when they wanted to have eg a new garage or shed in the same place, and tried to argue either that they were preserving an existing one, or removed the existing one before they had PP and it was then treated as not being there.

    There are enough grey areas for a restoration to status quo ante, which I think is the phrase.
    There's also the fact that planning departments are severely under-resourced to do the job expected of them.

    The chances of anyone ever noticing, if Nick's elderly friends replaced their cottage window with a similar looking double glazed version, are close to nil.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,832
    Leon said:

    Am I in a 787 or a 777, i dunno

    PB travel boffs please decide

    However I just asked the dude here serving my seat and he says this is a whole new Biz Class configuration for Air France. I am on one of the first ever flights. And it is bloody good

    Rather private, endless excellent booze, good selection of movies, Michelin one-rosette food (if not quite Eva), this is the first European flyer that, to me, stands toe to toe with the Emirates/East Asian airlines

    Definitely ahead of BA, miles better than Lufthansa/SwissAir etc

    The French are going for it

    https://app.suno.ai/song/3f112d07-5bb4-4063-8817-b9a03943edad/

    You know, I'm tempted to consume PB entirely in musical form from now on. Maybe a deal can be done to create the PB musical podcast to showcase the tech?
  • Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    But look at the space you get. You could literally hide two children in here...

    That really doesn't pass muster for the glorified ad copy expected of you.

    It sounds almost as bad as "the loudest sound you can hear at 30,000 feet is the ticking of the bomb under your seat".
    Actually, Air Belgium called with an offer of work.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,583
    Selebian said:

    Leon said:

    Am I in a 787 or a 777, i dunno

    PB travel boffs please decide

    However I just asked the dude here serving my seat and he says this is a whole new Biz Class configuration for Air France. I am on one of the first ever flights. And it is bloody good

    Rather private, endless excellent booze, good selection of movies, Michelin one-rosette food (if not quite Eva), this is the first European flyer that, to me, stands toe to toe with the Emirates/East Asian airlines

    Definitely ahead of BA, miles better than Lufthansa/SwissAir etc

    The French are going for it

    https://app.suno.ai/song/3f112d07-5bb4-4063-8817-b9a03943edad/

    You know, I'm tempted to consume PB entirely in musical form from now on. Maybe a deal can be done to create the PB musical podcast to showcase the tech?
    Let it be known that I invented this….
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,805
    edited February 28

    HMRC slammed as phone line waits get even longer
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68413088

    HMRC lets wealthy use VIP helpline to avoid long waits
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/hmrc-vip-helpline-high-earners-nine-times-faster-8rdjfb99n (£££)

    A tale of two headlines. PBers will be shocked to learn that ministers and senior civil servants get the VIP number.

    They have no incentive to improve things when they can simply exist in a Potemkin reality where everything works.
    To be fair, 16 minutes is bloody fast compared with most of the private sector helplines that I encounter. I once tried to cancel a Norton subscription, which you can't do online - after an hour waiting, I gave up and simply replaced the account details with a non-existent bank account. Let them sue me.
    DWP is typically a 30-40 minutes wait, even at the times they advise you to call as they are 'quietest'.

    The agents are invariably courteous and as helpful as they can be given they often seem limited in what they are allowed to do.

    Dorset Council currently often give the message they are 'too busy' and hang up (after you've gone through their crappy IVR).
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,187
    148grss said:

    Nigelb said:

    Morning all,

    Worrying result for Biden in Michigan. He needs a ceasefire asap.

    Gazans need a ceasefire ASAP.

    Biden is clearly over 80%, and "uncommitted" seems to be not much higher than it was when Obama ran for reelection?
    The 'uncommitted' vote numbers weren't ideal for him, but they've been seriously overhyped.

    Trump has more reason to be concerned about the significant vote Haley is still getting, despite is being clear that she's no chance of getting the nomination (unless events take him out of the running completely).
    They are on par with similar primaries from the POV of %, although overall turnout was greater. But Biden only just won the first time against Trump - he can't afford to lose too many voters. And now he is the incumbent and this election will be a referendum on his time in office, not on Trump's.
    It's an election, not a referendum.
    And in any event, overall his administration has been a pretty good one. That it doesn't satisfy the left of his party is pretty well inevitable, as it would be impossible to have been elected on a platform which did, and even more impossible to get any such legislation through Congress.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,832
    Leon said:

    Selebian said:

    Leon said:

    Am I in a 787 or a 777, i dunno

    PB travel boffs please decide

    However I just asked the dude here serving my seat and he says this is a whole new Biz Class configuration for Air France. I am on one of the first ever flights. And it is bloody good

    Rather private, endless excellent booze, good selection of movies, Michelin one-rosette food (if not quite Eva), this is the first European flyer that, to me, stands toe to toe with the Emirates/East Asian airlines

    Definitely ahead of BA, miles better than Lufthansa/SwissAir etc

    The French are going for it

    https://app.suno.ai/song/3f112d07-5bb4-4063-8817-b9a03943edad/

    You know, I'm tempted to consume PB entirely in musical form from now on. Maybe a deal can be done to create the PB musical podcast to showcase the tech?
    Let it be known that I invented this….
    Now, now - I refer you to TSE's recent post about modesty :wink:
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,119

    Taz said:

    Foxy said:

    As long as the Cons fail to see the multiple issues ordinary people face in just getting by daily then they will continue to decline, and going "full Trump" is certainly not going to arrest that decline. Susan Hall is an awful, harsh sounding candidate and will fail. In the GE they may hang on in a couple of seats, but it's not going to be good for them at all.

    The longer they leave it the worse it will be for them.

    The Tories hate everything about London: it's young university educated population, its cosmopolitan neighbourhoods, its liberality, its impoverished poor, its culture. They offer nothing to alleviate the hardship of the housing situation, or to support the people. Why would they get votes here with their neanderthal nativism?
    I hate London's homophobia

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/londoners-less-tolerant-of-gay-or-transgender-children-polls-reveals-10119183.html
    I see those of us in the North, and the Scots, are the most accepting. Listening to some people here you'd think us northerners were a mass of hatred and bigotry and the south were the enlightened ones.


    Facts versus opinion/guess.
    To be fair u suspect the circles most posters move in are pretty socially liberal.

    They just fail to recognise that multiculturalism has facilitated the implantation of less tolerant cultures
    And there is a secondary effect of the tolerance of intolerant subcultures. I saw this when I went to university in London - there were weird pockets in student life where some really unpleasant people were LARPing their visions of the future. And seemed to be picking up ideas from the other nutters. The University authorities seemed to think sticking their fingers in their ears and screaming LA-LA-LA was the way to go.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,889
    Long gone are the days when London was a swing region as it was until the 1990s. Indeed in 2019 it saw Labour's highest vote share in the UK and is now overall safe Labour at general elections.

    Having said that the Tories do need to win some marginal seats, especially in Outer London if they expect to win nationally. At the moment they look likely to be pushed out right to the Essex and Kent borders and wiped out in inner London. Though they might scrape home in Chelsea and Fulham due to an opposition vote split between Labour and the LDs
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,583
    Selebian said:

    Leon said:

    Selebian said:

    Leon said:

    Am I in a 787 or a 777, i dunno

    PB travel boffs please decide

    However I just asked the dude here serving my seat and he says this is a whole new Biz Class configuration for Air France. I am on one of the first ever flights. And it is bloody good

    Rather private, endless excellent booze, good selection of movies, Michelin one-rosette food (if not quite Eva), this is the first European flyer that, to me, stands toe to toe with the Emirates/East Asian airlines

    Definitely ahead of BA, miles better than Lufthansa/SwissAir etc

    The French are going for it

    https://app.suno.ai/song/3f112d07-5bb4-4063-8817-b9a03943edad/

    You know, I'm tempted to consume PB entirely in musical form from now on. Maybe a deal can be done to create the PB musical podcast to showcase the tech?
    Let it be known that I invented this….
    Now, now - I refer you to TSE's recent post about modesty :wink:
    Nonetheless, respect is due
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,240

    Morning all,

    Worrying result for Biden in Michigan. He needs a ceasefire asap.

    Gazans need a ceasefire ASAP.

    Biden is clearly over 80%
    Yes, he’s 81.

    Oh, sorry, you said 80 percent.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,119

    @Leon : I don't know if you saw this, r if it was covered on PB yesterday, but the owners of the Crooked House have been ordered to rebuild it.

    https://twitter.com/andy4wm/status/1762442547220099419

    Not that I think it'll happen, though... :(

    Sure it wouldn’t pass muster with the building inspectors…
    I understand grandfather rights apply to old buildings - for instance, insulation requirements for windows do not necessarily have to apply to some listed buildings, which can be a pain for homeowners who want the extra insulation double-glazing gives. Or an even bigger pain if the planners insist on wooden-frame double-glazing.

    I've no idea if grandfather rights would apply to this sort of rebuild - I'd have guessed they would. It'd probably be a negotiation, and what we'll end up with is something that we'll be told has the 'character' of the original building. Despite 'character' often being granted from the age...

    (I'm not even sure 'grandfather rights' is the correct term...)
    It’s not usually “grandfather rights” but “grandfathering”

    You are technically in breach of the regulations but because you pre-existed you are deemed in compliance. It’s important that they aren’t “rights” because deemed compliance can be withdrawn by regulatory action

    The idea of a rebuild probably falls between two regulators and will be a negotiation. I hope the owners don’t try to exploit it


    Impoverished elderly friends live on the rural edge of my old patch in the old estate which was the scene for Lady Chatterley's Lover, in a tumbledown rented cottage facing onto empty scrubland. Literally nobody ever walks by. They asked for permission to double-glaze a window as the cottage gets cold, with the landlord's support. It was refused, because out of character with the building.

    I see the point of protection of history, and nobdy is suggesting tearing down St Paul's Cathedral to make room for another KFC. But really, don't we carry it a bit far? Shouldn't "probability that anyone will be disturbed by the change" be a major factor allowing exemptions if the probability is under say 5%?
    The issue of double glazing and insulation on ancient properties is a long ongoing one.

    Did your friend try for secondary glazing? Personally I don't like it, but there are options that include stuff that isn't physically attached into the structure - so completely temporary. Which the listing people can't object to (much).
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,889
    Nigelb said:

    Morning all,

    Worrying result for Biden in Michigan. He needs a ceasefire asap.

    Gazans need a ceasefire ASAP.

    Biden is clearly over 80%, and "uncommitted" seems to be not much higher than it was when Obama ran for reelection?
    The 'uncommitted' vote numbers weren't ideal for him, but they've been seriously overhyped.

    Trump has more reason to be concerned about the significant vote Haley is still getting, despite is being clear that she's no chance of getting the nomination (unless events take him out of the running completely).
    Haley's vote was down in Michigan though at least than 30%. It only becomes a concern for Trump if some of her supporters vote for Biden not Trump.

    Most uncommitted voters won't vote for Trump but Biden still needs them to turn out for him in November
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,832
    Leon said:

    Selebian said:

    Leon said:

    Selebian said:

    Leon said:

    Am I in a 787 or a 777, i dunno

    PB travel boffs please decide

    However I just asked the dude here serving my seat and he says this is a whole new Biz Class configuration for Air France. I am on one of the first ever flights. And it is bloody good

    Rather private, endless excellent booze, good selection of movies, Michelin one-rosette food (if not quite Eva), this is the first European flyer that, to me, stands toe to toe with the Emirates/East Asian airlines

    Definitely ahead of BA, miles better than Lufthansa/SwissAir etc

    The French are going for it

    https://app.suno.ai/song/3f112d07-5bb4-4063-8817-b9a03943edad/

    You know, I'm tempted to consume PB entirely in musical form from now on. Maybe a deal can be done to create the PB musical podcast to showcase the tech?
    Let it be known that I invented this….
    Now, now - I refer you to TSE's recent post about modesty :wink:
    Nonetheless, respect is due
    Respect :kissing_heart:
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,805
    Leon said:

    Selebian said:

    Leon said:

    Am I in a 787 or a 777, i dunno

    PB travel boffs please decide

    However I just asked the dude here serving my seat and he says this is a whole new Biz Class configuration for Air France. I am on one of the first ever flights. And it is bloody good

    Rather private, endless excellent booze, good selection of movies, Michelin one-rosette food (if not quite Eva), this is the first European flyer that, to me, stands toe to toe with the Emirates/East Asian airlines

    Definitely ahead of BA, miles better than Lufthansa/SwissAir etc

    The French are going for it

    https://app.suno.ai/song/3f112d07-5bb4-4063-8817-b9a03943edad/

    You know, I'm tempted to consume PB entirely in musical form from now on. Maybe a deal can be done to create the PB musical podcast to showcase the tech?
    Let it be known that I invented this….
    Something else you made up, eh?
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,179
    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    Morning all,

    Worrying result for Biden in Michigan. He needs a ceasefire asap.

    Gazans need a ceasefire ASAP.

    Biden is clearly over 80%, and "uncommitted" seems to be not much higher than it was when Obama ran for reelection?
    The 'uncommitted' vote numbers weren't ideal for him, but they've been seriously overhyped.

    Trump has more reason to be concerned about the significant vote Haley is still getting, despite is being clear that she's no chance of getting the nomination (unless events take him out of the running completely).
    Haley's vote was down in Michigan though at least than 30%. It only becomes a concern for Trump if some of her supporters vote for Biden not Trump.

    Most uncommitted voters won't vote for Trump but Biden still needs them to turn out for him in November
    Anyone voting for Trump should be committed.
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,670
    HYUFD said:

    Long gone are the days when London was a swing region as it was until the 1990s. Indeed in 2019 it saw Labour's highest vote share in the UK and is now overall safe Labour at general elections.

    Having said that the Tories do need to win some marginal seats, especially in Outer London if they expect to win nationally. At the moment they look likely to be pushed out right to the Essex and Kent borders and wiped out in inner London. Though they might scrape home in Chelsea and Fulham due to an opposition vote split between Labour and the LDs

    C&F is going to be one of those seats where reliable information from the ground v. fluctuating odds based on the mood music could provide a good betting opportunity (if it appears in an individual seat market somewhere).
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,709

    HMRC slammed as phone line waits get even longer
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68413088

    HMRC lets wealthy use VIP helpline to avoid long waits
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/hmrc-vip-helpline-high-earners-nine-times-faster-8rdjfb99n (£££)

    A tale of two headlines. PBers will be shocked to learn that ministers and senior civil servants get the VIP number.

    They have no incentive to improve things when they can simply exist in a Potemkin reality where everything works.
    To be fair, 16 minutes is bloody fast compared with most of the private sector helplines that I encounter. I once tried to cancel a Norton subscription, which you can't do online - after an hour waiting, I gave up and simply replaced the account details with a non-existent bank account. Let them sue me.
    DWP is typically a 30-40 minutes wait, even at the times they advise you to call as they are 'quietest'.

    The agents are invariably courteous and as helpful as they can be given they often seem limited in what they are allowed to do.

    Dorset Council currently often give the message they are 'too busy' and hang up (after you've gone through their crappy IVR).
    Our local NHS Community service can be dreadful. And it uses some appalling ‘music’ to while away the waiting time.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,119
    stodge said:

    TOPPING said:

    Taz said:

    Foxy said:

    As long as the Cons fail to see the multiple issues ordinary people face in just getting by daily then they will continue to decline, and going "full Trump" is certainly not going to arrest that decline. Susan Hall is an awful, harsh sounding candidate and will fail. In the GE they may hang on in a couple of seats, but it's not going to be good for them at all.

    The longer they leave it the worse it will be for them.

    The Tories hate everything about London: it's young university educated population, its cosmopolitan neighbourhoods, its liberality, its impoverished poor, its culture. They offer nothing to alleviate the hardship of the housing situation, or to support the people. Why would they get votes here with their neanderthal nativism?
    I hate London's homophobia

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/londoners-less-tolerant-of-gay-or-transgender-children-polls-reveals-10119183.html
    I see those of us in the North, and the Scots, are the most accepting. Listening to some people here you'd think us northerners were a mass of hatred and bigotry and the south were the enlightened ones.

    Facts versus opinion/guess.
    According to @Foxy, the bigotry is:

    "mostly down to homophobia and transphobia amongst some socially conservative communities overrepresented in London demographics"

    Whatever that means.
    What it means is the stereotype of Londoners as metropolitan, tolerant and liberal is as false as the notion provincial England is socially conservative if not reactionary.

    There are intolerant people in London just as there are intolerant people everywhere. There are strong socially conservative communities in many parts of the capital - among devoutly religious groups including Christian evangelicals, Muslims, Hindus, Jews etc for example. Of course you don't have to be religious or have strong personal faith to be socially conservative not does having faith mean you can't be socially liberal but without wishing to over-generalise..

    All this does (rightly) is challenge preconceptions or misconceptions about London. Newham for example has fewer atheists and agnostics than almost anywhere else. Faith is very important - which faith is another matter and I wouldn't want to overstate this but evangelical churches are noticeable here with a new one for the Latin American community having recently opened off the Barking Road.
    Many, many years ago, I was strolling around Bloomsbury on a summers evening. It was the World Cup, and the young lady I was with commented on all the flags hanging from windows (mostly students in the area we were in), and how diverse it was.

    Being young and stupid, I put downer on proceedings pointing out the flag, hanging from one window, was the logo of the ARENA party from El Salvador. Which, back then, wasn't the party of death squads. No. But if you mentioned the name of a troublesome trade unionist to them... well, accidents happen. Accidents like accidentally shooting someone and accidentally burying them in a hole in the ground in the jungle.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,899
    edited February 28

    MattW said:

    Will we see a lot of anti-Conservative tactical voting in the Mayoral contest? I suspect not that much. Khan is so far ahead that LibDem and Green voters aren’t going to be scared of letting in the Tories.

    There’s also the London Assembly elections to consider. Presumably Labour will make gains at the Tories’ expense. Could Labour achieve an overall majority? Could the Tories even cease to be the official opposition? There are opportunities for the Greens or LibDems to shine. I would guess Reform UK will also get at least one Assembly member.

    Are there local elections in London?

    I'm interested in Kensington & Chelsea adopting a sane strategy wrt mobility infrastructure.
    No, they’re on a different cycle. Next ones are in 2026, during the new Labour government’s honeymoon period perhaps?
    The other election that interests me is Police & Crime Commissioners.

    I'm interested in a Nottinghamshire PCC who doesn't commission her own crime next time by getting herself banned from driving by 5 speeding offences within a couple of months each side of the election.

    Since here the vote last time was Tory 53% vs Labour 43% there's a good chance she will get hoofed out.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,805
    On the subject of HMRC...

    I'm seeing a guy today, a bit 'alternative', he earns only £10-£12k pa as a self-employed jobbing craftsman (his choice). Living very simply he asks for and gets no state help.

    But he's in hoc to HRMC for a £2k for failing to file two years tax returns on-line properly. It appears he completed the forms (zero tax to pay) but failed to press 'submit', not really being very IT literate.

    He's got no way of paying the fines but they're threatening court action.

    Interesting challenge.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,899

    HMRC slammed as phone line waits get even longer
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68413088

    HMRC lets wealthy use VIP helpline to avoid long waits
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/hmrc-vip-helpline-high-earners-nine-times-faster-8rdjfb99n (£££)

    A tale of two headlines. PBers will be shocked to learn that ministers and senior civil servants get the VIP number.

    They have no incentive to improve things when they can simply exist in a Potemkin reality where everything works.
    To be fair, 16 minutes is bloody fast compared with most of the private sector helplines that I encounter. I once tried to cancel a Norton subscription, which you can't do online - after an hour waiting, I gave up and simply replaced the account details with a non-existent bank account. Let them sue me.
    I once had to remove a Norton product manually from a computer.

    That was 199x and it is still a scar in my memory.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,099
    Leon said:

    Selebian said:

    Leon said:

    Am I in a 787 or a 777, i dunno

    PB travel boffs please decide

    However I just asked the dude here serving my seat and he says this is a whole new Biz Class configuration for Air France. I am on one of the first ever flights. And it is bloody good

    Rather private, endless excellent booze, good selection of movies, Michelin one-rosette food (if not quite Eva), this is the first European flyer that, to me, stands toe to toe with the Emirates/East Asian airlines

    Definitely ahead of BA, miles better than Lufthansa/SwissAir etc

    The French are going for it

    https://app.suno.ai/song/3f112d07-5bb4-4063-8817-b9a03943edad/

    You know, I'm tempted to consume PB entirely in musical form from now on. Maybe a deal can be done to create the PB musical podcast to showcase the tech?
    Let it be known that I invented this….
    Surely you mean an AI invented this, human creativity being obsolete and all...
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,187
    Heathener said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Am I in a 787 or a 777, i dunno

    PB travel boffs please decide

    However I just asked the dude here serving my seat and he says this is a whole new Biz Class configuration for Air France. I am on one of the first ever flights. And it is bloody good

    Rather private, endless excellent booze, good selection of movies, Michelin one-rosette food (if not quite Eva), this is the first European flyer that, to me, stands toe to toe with the Emirates/East Asian airlines

    Definitely ahead of BA, miles better than Lufthansa/SwissAir etc

    The French are going for it

    Well you’re either on AF253 from Ho Chi Min to Paris, currently over NW India, or you’re on AF153 from Bangkok to Paris, a few hundred miles behind it - which are a 777-200 and 777-300 respectively today. No Dreamliner for Leon.

    Oh, and it’s Air France, which is good enough reason to choose another airline. I’ll perhaps fly with them in another lifetime, when they’ve changed their culture and stopped killing their customers.
    Many of us globetrot without being so needy as to trumpet it on pb.

    Perhaps I’m the only one who finds it tiresome and irrelevant to the purposes of this forum. But objectively, and for the benefit of attracting a younger newer audience, it turns it into a saddo’s facebook, which is also for people of a certain age.

    One of the great lessons in life is to learn when it’s time to leave the stage.
    Leon has a few years in him yet.

    Iconic trot singer Na Hoon-a to retire after 58-year career
    https://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/art/2024/02/682_369665.html
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,187

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    Morning all,

    Worrying result for Biden in Michigan. He needs a ceasefire asap.

    Gazans need a ceasefire ASAP.

    Biden is clearly over 80%, and "uncommitted" seems to be not much higher than it was when Obama ran for reelection?
    The 'uncommitted' vote numbers weren't ideal for him, but they've been seriously overhyped.

    Trump has more reason to be concerned about the significant vote Haley is still getting, despite is being clear that she's no chance of getting the nomination (unless events take him out of the running completely).
    Haley's vote was down in Michigan though at least than 30%. It only becomes a concern for Trump if some of her supporters vote for Biden not Trump.

    Most uncommitted voters won't vote for Trump but Biden still needs them to turn out for him in November
    Anyone voting for Trump should be committed.
    They are very committed indeed.
    That's the problem.
  • 148grss148grss Posts: 4,155
    Nigelb said:

    148grss said:

    Nigelb said:

    Morning all,

    Worrying result for Biden in Michigan. He needs a ceasefire asap.

    Gazans need a ceasefire ASAP.

    Biden is clearly over 80%, and "uncommitted" seems to be not much higher than it was when Obama ran for reelection?
    The 'uncommitted' vote numbers weren't ideal for him, but they've been seriously overhyped.

    Trump has more reason to be concerned about the significant vote Haley is still getting, despite is being clear that she's no chance of getting the nomination (unless events take him out of the running completely).
    They are on par with similar primaries from the POV of %, although overall turnout was greater. But Biden only just won the first time against Trump - he can't afford to lose too many voters. And now he is the incumbent and this election will be a referendum on his time in office, not on Trump's.
    It's an election, not a referendum.
    And in any event, overall his administration has been a pretty good one. That it doesn't satisfy the left of his party is pretty well inevitable, as it would be impossible to have been elected on a platform which did, and even more impossible to get any such legislation through Congress.
    I understand it is an election not a referendum. But the 2020 campaign was a "do you feel better after 4 years of Trump" campaign, and the this campaign will be "do you feel better after 4 years of Biden". Most voters seem to have felt life got worse under both, but Biden's is the most recent. And whilst the economy is, on paper, much healthier under Biden - voters disagree (because they really seem to really hate inflation, even when wages go up).

    https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2024/02/16/democrats-economy-inflation-column-00141816
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,556

    Taz said:

    Foxy said:

    As long as the Cons fail to see the multiple issues ordinary people face in just getting by daily then they will continue to decline, and going "full Trump" is certainly not going to arrest that decline. Susan Hall is an awful, harsh sounding candidate and will fail. In the GE they may hang on in a couple of seats, but it's not going to be good for them at all.

    The longer they leave it the worse it will be for them.

    The Tories hate everything about London: it's young university educated population, its cosmopolitan neighbourhoods, its liberality, its impoverished poor, its culture. They offer nothing to alleviate the hardship of the housing situation, or to support the people. Why would they get votes here with their neanderthal nativism?
    I hate London's homophobia

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/londoners-less-tolerant-of-gay-or-transgender-children-polls-reveals-10119183.html
    I see those of us in the North, and the Scots, are the most accepting. Listening to some people here you'd think us northerners were a mass of hatred and bigotry and the south were the enlightened ones.


    Facts versus opinion/guess.
    To be fair u suspect the circles most posters move in are pretty socially liberal.

    They just fail to recognise that multiculturalism has facilitated the implantation of less tolerant cultures
    And there is a secondary effect of the tolerance of intolerant subcultures. I saw this when I went to university in London - there were weird pockets in student life where some really unpleasant people were LARPing their visions of the future. And seemed to be picking up ideas from the other nutters. The University authorities seemed to think sticking their fingers in their ears and screaming LA-LA-LA was the way to go.
    It was the thing I hated about UCL more than anything, the groups of men from Islamic societies hanging outside refectories etc trying to force leaflets on you which was a mild irritant but when they would harass women who looked south Asian who weren’t covering their heads or were walking holding hands with a chap it was disgraceful.

    It’s not like you could kick off with them but it was ridiculous that the University and the Student Union seemed to value their “free speech” more than the safety and freedom of students to not be harassed.
  • TresTres Posts: 2,724

    Foxy said:

    As long as the Cons fail to see the multiple issues ordinary people face in just getting by daily then they will continue to decline, and going "full Trump" is certainly not going to arrest that decline. Susan Hall is an awful, harsh sounding candidate and will fail. In the GE they may hang on in a couple of seats, but it's not going to be good for them at all.

    The longer they leave it the worse it will be for them.

    The Tories hate everything about London: it's young university educated population, its cosmopolitan neighbourhoods, its liberality, its impoverished poor, its culture. They offer nothing to alleviate the hardship of the housing situation, or to support the people. Why would they get votes here with their neanderthal nativism?
    Does London really have a "young university educated population" compared to other cities? I'd have guessed not.
    errr....
  • Morning all,

    Worrying result for Biden in Michigan. He needs a ceasefire asap.

    Yes, 81% for Biden is worrying, 60% for Trump is fine.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,909

    Morning all,

    Worrying result for Biden in Michigan. He needs a ceasefire asap.

    As someone else (truly!) pointed out yesterday, those pro-Palestine Dems are never going to vote for Trump nor abstain for that matter.
    They're in a similar spot to the voters who voted for Ralph Nader in 2000. Gore's failure to convince those voters contributed to his defeat in that election.

    They're not guaranteed voters for Biden.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,889
    mwadams said:

    HYUFD said:

    Long gone are the days when London was a swing region as it was until the 1990s. Indeed in 2019 it saw Labour's highest vote share in the UK and is now overall safe Labour at general elections.

    Having said that the Tories do need to win some marginal seats, especially in Outer London if they expect to win nationally. At the moment they look likely to be pushed out right to the Essex and Kent borders and wiped out in inner London. Though they might scrape home in Chelsea and Fulham due to an opposition vote split between Labour and the LDs

    C&F is going to be one of those seats where reliable information from the ground v. fluctuating odds based on the mood music could provide a good betting opportunity (if it appears in an individual seat market somewhere).
    Indeed, it would almost certainly have gone Labour had Truss stayed PM but I think the Tories might narrowly hold it with Rishi.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,909
    Heathener said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Am I in a 787 or a 777, i dunno

    PB travel boffs please decide

    However I just asked the dude here serving my seat and he says this is a whole new Biz Class configuration for Air France. I am on one of the first ever flights. And it is bloody good

    Rather private, endless excellent booze, good selection of movies, Michelin one-rosette food (if not quite Eva), this is the first European flyer that, to me, stands toe to toe with the Emirates/East Asian airlines

    Definitely ahead of BA, miles better than Lufthansa/SwissAir etc

    The French are going for it

    Well you’re either on AF253 from Ho Chi Min to Paris, currently over NW India, or you’re on AF153 from Bangkok to Paris, a few hundred miles behind it - which are a 777-200 and 777-300 respectively today. No Dreamliner for Leon.

    Oh, and it’s Air France, which is good enough reason to choose another airline. I’ll perhaps fly with them in another lifetime, when they’ve changed their culture and stopped killing their customers.
    Many of us globetrot without being so needy as to trumpet it on pb.

    Perhaps I’m the only one who finds it tiresome and irrelevant to the purposes of this forum. But objectively, and for the benefit of attracting a younger newer audience, it turns it into a saddo’s facebook, which is also for people of a certain age.

    One of the great lessons in life is to learn when it’s time to leave the stage.
    Leon's posts about his travels are my favourites of his posts on PB.com.
  • 148grss148grss Posts: 4,155
    edited February 28
    There's a great part in Pratchett's Going Postal where a character describes the con the men who own the Grand Trunk are playing - I don't have the book in front of me, but it's along the lines of: you see an asset that could turn a profit that is currently owned by people who care about the asset as a system and not an asset and therefore do not have a head for business. As someone who wants to turn a profit, you approach these men with no heads for business and say you want to invest in that asset. They agree, always wanting money to spend tinkering in their sheds to improve the systems they care about, and sign your documents. Eventually, you run out of that first bit of money, so when they say they're happy to invest again you sign again without question. But this time you've sold more than a 50% share in the asset, so you no longer own it, and now people with heads for business are in charge and they don't care if the system works - they care that it makes money. So maintenance stops, because that's a cost that doesn't return short term profit, and the system is always pushed to breaking point to make the most money off of it. They bought it dirt cheap, they suck it dry whilst running it into the ground, and they'll also likely make a profit selling it off afterwards to another rube or to the state who need the system to exist for the functioning of society.

    Anyway, I give this extremely long preface (apologies as always @TOPPING) to share this unrelated news:

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/live/2024/feb/28/thames-water-lobbying-higher-bills-lower-fines-avoid-bailout-report-claims-somerset-gigafactory-bridgend-tata-us-gdp-business-live
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,834
    Nigelb said:

    148grss said:

    Nigelb said:

    Morning all,

    Worrying result for Biden in Michigan. He needs a ceasefire asap.

    Gazans need a ceasefire ASAP.

    Biden is clearly over 80%, and "uncommitted" seems to be not much higher than it was when Obama ran for reelection?
    The 'uncommitted' vote numbers weren't ideal for him, but they've been seriously overhyped.

    Trump has more reason to be concerned about the significant vote Haley is still getting, despite is being clear that she's no chance of getting the nomination (unless events take him out of the running completely).
    They are on par with similar primaries from the POV of %, although overall turnout was greater. But Biden only just won the first time against Trump - he can't afford to lose too many voters. And now he is the incumbent and this election will be a referendum on his time in office, not on Trump's.
    It's an election, not a referendum.
    And in any event, overall his administration has been a pretty good one. That it doesn't satisfy the left of his party is pretty well inevitable, as it would be impossible to have been elected on a platform which did, and even more impossible to get any such legislation through Congress.
    It's both. Oppositions always seek to make elections a referendum on the incumbent - to a large extent, at least - when there are failures to be highlighted and where the challenger has weaknesses. As here. And some of the public will go for it on that basis. Granted, it's harder this time because the challenger is such a known quantity and has such significant drawbacks himself.

    Nonetheless, a big part of the Republican strategy will be to suppress the Democrat vote, not just procedurally but by disillusioning potential Biden voters and persuading them to abstain.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,889
    stodge said:

    TOPPING said:

    Taz said:

    Foxy said:

    As long as the Cons fail to see the multiple issues ordinary people face in just getting by daily then they will continue to decline, and going "full Trump" is certainly not going to arrest that decline. Susan Hall is an awful, harsh sounding candidate and will fail. In the GE they may hang on in a couple of seats, but it's not going to be good for them at all.

    The longer they leave it the worse it will be for them.

    The Tories hate everything about London: it's young university educated population, its cosmopolitan neighbourhoods, its liberality, its impoverished poor, its culture. They offer nothing to alleviate the hardship of the housing situation, or to support the people. Why would they get votes here with their neanderthal nativism?
    I hate London's homophobia

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/londoners-less-tolerant-of-gay-or-transgender-children-polls-reveals-10119183.html
    I see those of us in the North, and the Scots, are the most accepting. Listening to some people here you'd think us northerners were a mass of hatred and bigotry and the south were the enlightened ones.

    Facts versus opinion/guess.
    According to @Foxy, the bigotry is:

    "mostly down to homophobia and transphobia amongst some socially conservative communities overrepresented in London demographics"

    Whatever that means.
    What it means is the stereotype of Londoners as metropolitan, tolerant and liberal is as false as the notion provincial England is socially conservative if not reactionary.

    There are intolerant people in London just as there are intolerant people everywhere. There are strong socially conservative communities in many parts of the capital - among devoutly religious groups including Christian evangelicals, Muslims, Hindus, Jews etc for example. Of course you don't have to be religious or have strong personal faith to be socially conservative not does having faith mean you can't be socially liberal but without wishing to over-generalise..

    All this does (rightly) is challenge preconceptions or misconceptions about London. Newham for example has fewer atheists and agnostics than almost anywhere else. Faith is very important - which faith is another matter and I wouldn't want to overstate this but evangelical churches are noticeable here with a new one for the Latin American community having recently opened off the Barking Road.
    And Newham religious really are strongly religious, not C of E a couple of times a year and weddings and funerals. Indeed most religious in Newham are either evangelical Pentecostal Christians or Muslims
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,468
    Tres said:

    Foxy said:

    As long as the Cons fail to see the multiple issues ordinary people face in just getting by daily then they will continue to decline, and going "full Trump" is certainly not going to arrest that decline. Susan Hall is an awful, harsh sounding candidate and will fail. In the GE they may hang on in a couple of seats, but it's not going to be good for them at all.

    The longer they leave it the worse it will be for them.

    The Tories hate everything about London: it's young university educated population, its cosmopolitan neighbourhoods, its liberality, its impoverished poor, its culture. They offer nothing to alleviate the hardship of the housing situation, or to support the people. Why would they get votes here with their neanderthal nativism?
    Does London really have a "young university educated population" compared to other cities? I'd have guessed not.
    errr....
    Yep, i was wrong. It has - and thanks to those who corrected me. Damn them! ;)

    My instinct was that whilst it would be younger, immigration would reduce the 'university educated' bit. Which was wrong, potentially for a host of reasons I should have been all too aware of.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,119
    MattW said:

    HMRC slammed as phone line waits get even longer
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68413088

    HMRC lets wealthy use VIP helpline to avoid long waits
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/hmrc-vip-helpline-high-earners-nine-times-faster-8rdjfb99n (£££)

    A tale of two headlines. PBers will be shocked to learn that ministers and senior civil servants get the VIP number.

    They have no incentive to improve things when they can simply exist in a Potemkin reality where everything works.
    To be fair, 16 minutes is bloody fast compared with most of the private sector helplines that I encounter. I once tried to cancel a Norton subscription, which you can't do online - after an hour waiting, I gave up and simply replaced the account details with a non-existent bank account. Let them sue me.
    I once had to remove a Norton product manually from a computer.

    That was 199x and it is still a scar in my memory.
    The John McAfee video on how to remove McAfee anti-virus software is memorable.
    boulay said:

    Taz said:

    Foxy said:

    As long as the Cons fail to see the multiple issues ordinary people face in just getting by daily then they will continue to decline, and going "full Trump" is certainly not going to arrest that decline. Susan Hall is an awful, harsh sounding candidate and will fail. In the GE they may hang on in a couple of seats, but it's not going to be good for them at all.

    The longer they leave it the worse it will be for them.

    The Tories hate everything about London: it's young university educated population, its cosmopolitan neighbourhoods, its liberality, its impoverished poor, its culture. They offer nothing to alleviate the hardship of the housing situation, or to support the people. Why would they get votes here with their neanderthal nativism?
    I hate London's homophobia

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/londoners-less-tolerant-of-gay-or-transgender-children-polls-reveals-10119183.html
    I see those of us in the North, and the Scots, are the most accepting. Listening to some people here you'd think us northerners were a mass of hatred and bigotry and the south were the enlightened ones.


    Facts versus opinion/guess.
    To be fair u suspect the circles most posters move in are pretty socially liberal.

    They just fail to recognise that multiculturalism has facilitated the implantation of less tolerant cultures
    And there is a secondary effect of the tolerance of intolerant subcultures. I saw this when I went to university in London - there were weird pockets in student life where some really unpleasant people were LARPing their visions of the future. And seemed to be picking up ideas from the other nutters. The University authorities seemed to think sticking their fingers in their ears and screaming LA-LA-LA was the way to go.
    It was the thing I hated about UCL more than anything, the groups of men from Islamic societies hanging outside refectories etc trying to force leaflets on you which was a mild irritant but when they would harass women who looked south Asian who weren’t covering their heads or were walking holding hands with a chap it was disgraceful.

    It’s not like you could kick off with them but it was ridiculous that the University and the Student Union seemed to value their “free speech” more than the safety and freedom of students to not be harassed.
    They weren't the only nutters. There were some quite persistent, SWP/Tankies who liked their violence. There were, in addition, other ethnic and religion based societies that seemed more like street gangs.

    The "Rules don't apply to pet groups" thing was strong.

    SOAS was more chilled back then. Something about the atmosphere, probably :smile:
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,341
    edited February 28

    MattW said:

    HMRC slammed as phone line waits get even longer
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68413088

    HMRC lets wealthy use VIP helpline to avoid long waits
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/hmrc-vip-helpline-high-earners-nine-times-faster-8rdjfb99n (£££)

    A tale of two headlines. PBers will be shocked to learn that ministers and senior civil servants get the VIP number.

    They have no incentive to improve things when they can simply exist in a Potemkin reality where everything works.
    To be fair, 16 minutes is bloody fast compared with most of the private sector helplines that I encounter. I once tried to cancel a Norton subscription, which you can't do online - after an hour waiting, I gave up and simply replaced the account details with a non-existent bank account. Let them sue me.
    I once had to remove a Norton product manually from a computer.

    That was 199x and it is still a scar in my memory.
    The John McAfee video on how to remove McAfee anti-virus software is memorable.
    boulay said:

    Taz said:

    Foxy said:

    As long as the Cons fail to see the multiple issues ordinary people face in just getting by daily then they will continue to decline, and going "full Trump" is certainly not going to arrest that decline. Susan Hall is an awful, harsh sounding candidate and will fail. In the GE they may hang on in a couple of seats, but it's not going to be good for them at all.

    The longer they leave it the worse it will be for them.

    The Tories hate everything about London: it's young university educated population, its cosmopolitan neighbourhoods, its liberality, its impoverished poor, its culture. They offer nothing to alleviate the hardship of the housing situation, or to support the people. Why would they get votes here with their neanderthal nativism?
    I hate London's homophobia

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/londoners-less-tolerant-of-gay-or-transgender-children-polls-reveals-10119183.html
    I see those of us in the North, and the Scots, are the most accepting. Listening to some people here you'd think us northerners were a mass of hatred and bigotry and the south were the enlightened ones.


    Facts versus opinion/guess.
    To be fair u suspect the circles most posters move in are pretty socially liberal.

    They just fail to recognise that multiculturalism has facilitated the implantation of less tolerant cultures
    And there is a secondary effect of the tolerance of intolerant subcultures. I saw this when I went to university in London - there were weird pockets in student life where some really unpleasant people were LARPing their visions of the future. And seemed to be picking up ideas from the other nutters. The University authorities seemed to think sticking their fingers in their ears and screaming LA-LA-LA was the way to go.
    It was the thing I hated about UCL more than anything, the groups of men from Islamic societies hanging outside refectories etc trying to force leaflets on you which was a mild irritant but when they would harass women who looked south Asian who weren’t covering their heads or were walking holding hands with a chap it was disgraceful.

    It’s not like you could kick off with them but it was ridiculous that the University and the Student Union seemed to value their “free speech” more than the safety and freedom of students to not be harassed.
    They weren't the only nutters. There were some quite persistent, SWP/Tankies who liked their violence. There were, in addition, other ethnic and religion based societies that seemed more like street gangs.

    The "Rules don't apply to pet groups" thing was strong.

    SOAS was more chilled back then. Something about the atmosphere, probably :smile:
    "Pet Groups"?! Kennel Club? Tortoise Society? Furries??
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,556

    MattW said:

    HMRC slammed as phone line waits get even longer
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68413088

    HMRC lets wealthy use VIP helpline to avoid long waits
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/hmrc-vip-helpline-high-earners-nine-times-faster-8rdjfb99n (£££)

    A tale of two headlines. PBers will be shocked to learn that ministers and senior civil servants get the VIP number.

    They have no incentive to improve things when they can simply exist in a Potemkin reality where everything works.
    To be fair, 16 minutes is bloody fast compared with most of the private sector helplines that I encounter. I once tried to cancel a Norton subscription, which you can't do online - after an hour waiting, I gave up and simply replaced the account details with a non-existent bank account. Let them sue me.
    I once had to remove a Norton product manually from a computer.

    That was 199x and it is still a scar in my memory.
    The John McAfee video on how to remove McAfee anti-virus software is memorable.
    boulay said:

    Taz said:

    Foxy said:

    As long as the Cons fail to see the multiple issues ordinary people face in just getting by daily then they will continue to decline, and going "full Trump" is certainly not going to arrest that decline. Susan Hall is an awful, harsh sounding candidate and will fail. In the GE they may hang on in a couple of seats, but it's not going to be good for them at all.

    The longer they leave it the worse it will be for them.

    The Tories hate everything about London: it's young university educated population, its cosmopolitan neighbourhoods, its liberality, its impoverished poor, its culture. They offer nothing to alleviate the hardship of the housing situation, or to support the people. Why would they get votes here with their neanderthal nativism?
    I hate London's homophobia

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/londoners-less-tolerant-of-gay-or-transgender-children-polls-reveals-10119183.html
    I see those of us in the North, and the Scots, are the most accepting. Listening to some people here you'd think us northerners were a mass of hatred and bigotry and the south were the enlightened ones.


    Facts versus opinion/guess.
    To be fair u suspect the circles most posters move in are pretty socially liberal.

    They just fail to recognise that multiculturalism has facilitated the implantation of less tolerant cultures
    And there is a secondary effect of the tolerance of intolerant subcultures. I saw this when I went to university in London - there were weird pockets in student life where some really unpleasant people were LARPing their visions of the future. And seemed to be picking up ideas from the other nutters. The University authorities seemed to think sticking their fingers in their ears and screaming LA-LA-LA was the way to go.
    It was the thing I hated about UCL more than anything, the groups of men from Islamic societies hanging outside refectories etc trying to force leaflets on you which was a mild irritant but when they would harass women who looked south Asian who weren’t covering their heads or were walking holding hands with a chap it was disgraceful.

    It’s not like you could kick off with them but it was ridiculous that the University and the Student Union seemed to value their “free speech” more than the safety and freedom of students to not be harassed.
    They weren't the only nutters. There were some quite persistent, SWP/Tankies who liked their violence. There were, in addition, other ethnic and religion based societies that seemed more like street gangs.

    The "Rules don't apply to pet groups" thing was strong.

    SOAS was more chilled back then. Something about the atmosphere, probably :smile:
    To be fair I didn’t notice many other groups - it was probably the fact that I didn’t spend a lot of time around the university apart from my department, the library for two hours in three years and the Union on Thursdays for Cocktails. Otherwise was elsewhere enjoying the joys of London.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,928

    On the subject of HMRC...

    I'm seeing a guy today, a bit 'alternative', he earns only £10-£12k pa as a self-employed jobbing craftsman (his choice). Living very simply he asks for and gets no state help.

    But he's in hoc to HRMC for a £2k for failing to file two years tax returns on-line properly. It appears he completed the forms (zero tax to pay) but failed to press 'submit', not really being very IT literate.

    He's got no way of paying the fines but they're threatening court action.

    Interesting challenge.

    Failing to submit the return is more common than you might think. I assume he has now submitted them? Has he appealed?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,119
    Carnyx said:

    MattW said:

    HMRC slammed as phone line waits get even longer
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68413088

    HMRC lets wealthy use VIP helpline to avoid long waits
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/hmrc-vip-helpline-high-earners-nine-times-faster-8rdjfb99n (£££)

    A tale of two headlines. PBers will be shocked to learn that ministers and senior civil servants get the VIP number.

    They have no incentive to improve things when they can simply exist in a Potemkin reality where everything works.
    To be fair, 16 minutes is bloody fast compared with most of the private sector helplines that I encounter. I once tried to cancel a Norton subscription, which you can't do online - after an hour waiting, I gave up and simply replaced the account details with a non-existent bank account. Let them sue me.
    I once had to remove a Norton product manually from a computer.

    That was 199x and it is still a scar in my memory.
    The John McAfee video on how to remove McAfee anti-virus software is memorable.
    boulay said:

    Taz said:

    Foxy said:

    As long as the Cons fail to see the multiple issues ordinary people face in just getting by daily then they will continue to decline, and going "full Trump" is certainly not going to arrest that decline. Susan Hall is an awful, harsh sounding candidate and will fail. In the GE they may hang on in a couple of seats, but it's not going to be good for them at all.

    The longer they leave it the worse it will be for them.

    The Tories hate everything about London: it's young university educated population, its cosmopolitan neighbourhoods, its liberality, its impoverished poor, its culture. They offer nothing to alleviate the hardship of the housing situation, or to support the people. Why would they get votes here with their neanderthal nativism?
    I hate London's homophobia

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/londoners-less-tolerant-of-gay-or-transgender-children-polls-reveals-10119183.html
    I see those of us in the North, and the Scots, are the most accepting. Listening to some people here you'd think us northerners were a mass of hatred and bigotry and the south were the enlightened ones.


    Facts versus opinion/guess.
    To be fair u suspect the circles most posters move in are pretty socially liberal.

    They just fail to recognise that multiculturalism has facilitated the implantation of less tolerant cultures
    And there is a secondary effect of the tolerance of intolerant subcultures. I saw this when I went to university in London - there were weird pockets in student life where some really unpleasant people were LARPing their visions of the future. And seemed to be picking up ideas from the other nutters. The University authorities seemed to think sticking their fingers in their ears and screaming LA-LA-LA was the way to go.
    It was the thing I hated about UCL more than anything, the groups of men from Islamic societies hanging outside refectories etc trying to force leaflets on you which was a mild irritant but when they would harass women who looked south Asian who weren’t covering their heads or were walking holding hands with a chap it was disgraceful.

    It’s not like you could kick off with them but it was ridiculous that the University and the Student Union seemed to value their “free speech” more than the safety and freedom of students to not be harassed.
    They weren't the only nutters. There were some quite persistent, SWP/Tankies who liked their violence. There were, in addition, other ethnic and religion based societies that seemed more like street gangs.

    The "Rules don't apply to pet groups" thing was strong.

    SOAS was more chilled back then. Something about the atmosphere, probably :smile:
    "Pet Groups"?! Kennel Club? Tortoise Society? Furries??
    You didn't want to mess with the Emotional Support Saltwater Crocodile Society.

    There was overt protection of egregious behaviour by the university.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,889
    edited February 28

    Morning all,

    Worrying result for Biden in Michigan. He needs a ceasefire asap.

    As someone else (truly!) pointed out yesterday, those pro-Palestine Dems are never going to vote for Trump nor abstain for that matter.
    They're in a similar spot to the voters who voted for Ralph Nader in 2000. Gore's failure to convince those voters contributed to his defeat in that election.

    They're not guaranteed voters for Biden.
    Biden may as well push for a ceasefire in Gaza now to secure the Muslim vote in swing state Michigan.

    With even the New York Jewish voters now going for Trump but Biden still well ahead in New York overall he has nothing to lose

    "Majority of New York Jewish voters intend to vote for Trump says new poll - The Jewish Chronicle" https://www.thejc.com/news/usa/majority-of-new-york-jewish-voters-intend-to-vote-for-trump-says-new-poll-j1ejhx7w
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 5,059
    Leon said:

    Re last night’s conversation - which I missed due to being asleep and all

    I absolutely do NOT dismiss the Premier Inns of this world. I’ve used them multiple times. I honestly and generally like them (with the caveat that they get worse the nearer you get to London)

    They are reliably clean, and efficient, the bed will be good, the room will be quiet, the shower will be hot and reviving, what more do you want for a one night stopover? You aren’t there for the experience, you are there to sleep well and move on

    Indeed they remind me of the best American motels of the past, the Holiday Inn Express or Days Inn as they used to be. The difference now is that an average motel in America will cost you an insane amount of money - $250? For total mediocrity? - whereas a good Premier Inn near Newent can still be had for about £70

    Everything gets worse the nearer you get to London. 😁
  • 148grss148grss Posts: 4,155
    HYUFD said:

    Morning all,

    Worrying result for Biden in Michigan. He needs a ceasefire asap.

    As someone else (truly!) pointed out yesterday, those pro-Palestine Dems are never going to vote for Trump nor abstain for that matter.
    They're in a similar spot to the voters who voted for Ralph Nader in 2000. Gore's failure to convince those voters contributed to his defeat in that election.

    They're not guaranteed voters for Biden.
    Biden may as well push for a ceasefire in Gaza now to secure the Muslim vote in swing state Michigan.

    With even the New York Jewish voters now going for Trump but Biden still well ahead in New York overall he has nothing to lose

    "Majority of New York Jewish voters intend to vote for Trump says new poll - The Jewish Chronicle" https://www.thejc.com/news/usa/majority-of-new-york-jewish-voters-intend-to-vote-for-trump-says-new-poll-j1ejhx7w
    I mean, a ceasefire isn't just about shoring up his Muslim vote - African American voters and middle class white liberals really want a ceasefire too!

    And yeah, this election could be a weird one with Trump possibly doing better in the popular vote than the past but still losing the EC. I still, unfortunately, think Trump is favoured - but hoping I'm wrong (as much as I'm not a huge fan of Biden).
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708
    HYUFD said:

    Morning all,

    Worrying result for Biden in Michigan. He needs a ceasefire asap.

    As someone else (truly!) pointed out yesterday, those pro-Palestine Dems are never going to vote for Trump nor abstain for that matter.
    They're in a similar spot to the voters who voted for Ralph Nader in 2000. Gore's failure to convince those voters contributed to his defeat in that election.

    They're not guaranteed voters for Biden.
    Biden may as well push for a ceasefire in Gaza now to secure the Muslim vote in swing state Michigan.

    With even the New York Jewish voters now going for Trump but Biden still well ahead in New York overall he has nothing to lose

    "Majority of New York Jewish voters intend to vote for Trump says new poll - The Jewish Chronicle" https://www.thejc.com/news/usa/majority-of-new-york-jewish-voters-intend-to-vote-for-trump-says-new-poll-j1ejhx7w
    IIUC he already is pushing for a ceasefire and has been for a while. The complication is neither Israel nor Hamas is interested in ceasing the firing.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 5,059
    148grss said:

    There's a great part in Pratchett's Going Postal where a character describes the con the men who own the Grand Trunk are playing - I don't have the book in front of me, but it's along the lines of: you see an asset that could turn a profit that is currently owned by people who care about the asset as a system and not an asset and therefore do not have a head for business. As someone who wants to turn a profit, you approach these men with no heads for business and say you want to invest in that asset. They agree, always wanting money to spend tinkering in their sheds to improve the systems they care about, and sign your documents. Eventually, you run out of that first bit of money, so when they say they're happy to invest again you sign again without question. But this time you've sold more than a 50% share in the asset, so you no longer own it, and now people with heads for business are in charge and they don't care if the system works - they care that it makes money. So maintenance stops, because that's a cost that doesn't return short term profit, and the system is always pushed to breaking point to make the most money off of it. They bought it dirt cheap, they suck it dry whilst running it into the ground, and they'll also likely make a profit selling it off afterwards to another rube or to the state who need the system to exist for the functioning of society.

    Anyway, I give this extremely long preface (apologies as always @TOPPING) to share this unrelated news:

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/live/2024/feb/28/thames-water-lobbying-higher-bills-lower-fines-avoid-bailout-report-claims-somerset-gigafactory-bridgend-tata-us-gdp-business-live

    Unfortunately, Thatcher read Going Postal and decided to turn it into party policy. Which explains the state of our infrastructure.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,805

    On the subject of HMRC...

    I'm seeing a guy today, a bit 'alternative', he earns only £10-£12k pa as a self-employed jobbing craftsman (his choice). Living very simply he asks for and gets no state help.

    But he's in hoc to HRMC for a £2k for failing to file two years tax returns on-line properly. It appears he completed the forms (zero tax to pay) but failed to press 'submit', not really being very IT literate.

    He's got no way of paying the fines but they're threatening court action.

    Interesting challenge.

    Failing to submit the return is more common than you might think. I assume he has now submitted them? Has he appealed?
    That's the plan - submit them then appeal the fine ('disproportionate for a non-taxpayer').

    But first of all I have to hope he can remember his logon credentials.
  • Red Bull team boss Christian Horner faces a decision day on his future on Wednesday over allegations by a female employee about his conduct.

    Horner could be out of a job or cleared to continue before Saturday’s season-opening Bahrain Formula One Grand Prix. An announcement from Red Bull’s Salzburg-based Austrian parent company is likely before the race at Sakhir.

    An investigation into the sport’s longest serving principal, and husband of former Spice Girls singer Geri Halliwell, has been ongoing since January although details only emerged publicly on Feb. 5.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/formula-1/2024/02/28/christian-horner-red-bull-investigation-announcement-f1/
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,453

    Leon said:

    Am I in a 787 or a 777, i dunno

    PB travel boffs please decide

    However I just asked the dude here serving my seat and he says this is a whole new Biz Class configuration for Air France. I am on one of the first ever flights. And it is bloody good

    Rather private, endless excellent booze, good selection of movies, Michelin one-rosette food (if not quite Eva), this is the first European flyer that, to me, stands toe to toe with the Emirates/East Asian airlines

    Definitely ahead of BA, miles better than Lufthansa/SwissAir etc

    The French are going for it

    But it is Air France.

    Air France pilots are under scrutiny after a series of incidents that have raised concerns over safety protocols on flights operated by the French flagship carrier, prompting aviation investigators to reprimand the airline last week.

    The latest incident to come to light involved two pilots who were suspended after a physical fight in the cockpit of an A320 plane in flight from Geneva to Paris in June, a spokesman for Air France said Monday, confirming a report in the French newspaper La Tribune. He added that the flight continued on and landed safely.

    The news of the fight has come amid broader concerns about flight safety at Air France. A few days ago, French investigators issued a report saying the airline’s pilots lacked rigor in following safety procedures.

    Investigators said several recent incidents suggested “that a certain culture has been established among some Air France crews, favoring a propensity to underestimate the benefits of a strict application of procedures for safety.”


    https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/29/world/europe/air-france-safety.html
    That’s beautiful bureaucratese

    “They are risk-taking sloppy f**kwits”

  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,119

    Leon said:

    Am I in a 787 or a 777, i dunno

    PB travel boffs please decide

    However I just asked the dude here serving my seat and he says this is a whole new Biz Class configuration for Air France. I am on one of the first ever flights. And it is bloody good

    Rather private, endless excellent booze, good selection of movies, Michelin one-rosette food (if not quite Eva), this is the first European flyer that, to me, stands toe to toe with the Emirates/East Asian airlines

    Definitely ahead of BA, miles better than Lufthansa/SwissAir etc

    The French are going for it

    But it is Air France.

    Air France pilots are under scrutiny after a series of incidents that have raised concerns over safety protocols on flights operated by the French flagship carrier, prompting aviation investigators to reprimand the airline last week.

    The latest incident to come to light involved two pilots who were suspended after a physical fight in the cockpit of an A320 plane in flight from Geneva to Paris in June, a spokesman for Air France said Monday, confirming a report in the French newspaper La Tribune. He added that the flight continued on and landed safely.

    The news of the fight has come amid broader concerns about flight safety at Air France. A few days ago, French investigators issued a report saying the airline’s pilots lacked rigor in following safety procedures.

    Investigators said several recent incidents suggested “that a certain culture has been established among some Air France crews, favoring a propensity to underestimate the benefits of a strict application of procedures for safety.”


    https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/29/world/europe/air-france-safety.html
    That’s beautiful bureaucratese

    “They are risk-taking sloppy f**kwits”

    ...who get bit fighty in the cockpit
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,909

    148grss said:

    There's a great part in Pratchett's Going Postal where a character describes the con the men who own the Grand Trunk are playing - I don't have the book in front of me, but it's along the lines of: you see an asset that could turn a profit that is currently owned by people who care about the asset as a system and not an asset and therefore do not have a head for business. As someone who wants to turn a profit, you approach these men with no heads for business and say you want to invest in that asset. They agree, always wanting money to spend tinkering in their sheds to improve the systems they care about, and sign your documents. Eventually, you run out of that first bit of money, so when they say they're happy to invest again you sign again without question. But this time you've sold more than a 50% share in the asset, so you no longer own it, and now people with heads for business are in charge and they don't care if the system works - they care that it makes money. So maintenance stops, because that's a cost that doesn't return short term profit, and the system is always pushed to breaking point to make the most money off of it. They bought it dirt cheap, they suck it dry whilst running it into the ground, and they'll also likely make a profit selling it off afterwards to another rube or to the state who need the system to exist for the functioning of society.

    Anyway, I give this extremely long preface (apologies as always @TOPPING) to share this unrelated news:

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/live/2024/feb/28/thames-water-lobbying-higher-bills-lower-fines-avoid-bailout-report-claims-somerset-gigafactory-bridgend-tata-us-gdp-business-live

    Unfortunately, Thatcher read Going Postal and decided to turn it into party policy. Which explains the state of our infrastructure.
    Still the present crisis looks like a perfect opportunity to renationalise Thames Water without having to pay the shareholders a penny, or assume responsibility for repaying the debt loaded onto the company to pay out dividends over the years.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,453

    @Leon : I don't know if you saw this, r if it was covered on PB yesterday, but the owners of the Crooked House have been ordered to rebuild it.

    https://twitter.com/andy4wm/status/1762442547220099419

    Not that I think it'll happen, though... :(

    Sure it wouldn’t pass muster with the building inspectors…
    I understand grandfather rights apply to old buildings - for instance, insulation requirements for windows do not necessarily have to apply to some listed buildings, which can be a pain for homeowners who want the extra insulation double-glazing gives. Or an even bigger pain if the planners insist on wooden-frame double-glazing.

    I've no idea if grandfather rights would apply to this sort of rebuild - I'd have guessed they would. It'd probably be a negotiation, and what we'll end up with is something that we'll be told has the 'character' of the original building. Despite 'character' often being granted from the age...

    (I'm not even sure 'grandfather rights' is the correct term...)
    It’s not usually “grandfather rights” but “grandfathering”

    You are technically in breach of the regulations but because you pre-existed you are deemed in compliance. It’s important that they aren’t “rights” because deemed compliance can be withdrawn by regulatory action

    The idea of a rebuild probably falls between two regulators and will be a negotiation. I hope the owners don’t try to exploit it


    Impoverished elderly friends live on the rural edge of my old patch in the old estate which was the scene for Lady Chatterley's Lover, in a tumbledown rented cottage facing onto empty scrubland. Literally nobody ever walks by. They asked for permission to double-glaze a window as the cottage gets cold, with the landlord's support. It was refused, because out of character with the building.

    I see the point of protection of history, and nobdy is suggesting tearing down St Paul's
    Cathedral to make room for another KFC.
    But really, don't we carry it a bit far? Shouldn't "probability that anyone will be
    disturbed by the change" be a major factor
    allowing exemptions if the probability is
    under say 5%?
    Call these guys and speak to Andy

    https://stormwindows.co.uk/

    They are great in situations like this

  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,453

    Taz said:

    Foxy said:

    As long as the Cons fail to see the multiple issues ordinary people face in just getting by daily then they will continue to decline, and going "full Trump" is certainly not going to arrest that decline. Susan Hall is an awful, harsh sounding candidate and will fail. In the GE they may hang on in a couple of seats, but it's not going to be good for them at all.

    The longer they leave it the worse it will be for them.

    The Tories hate everything about London: it's young university educated population, its cosmopolitan neighbourhoods, its liberality, its impoverished poor, its culture. They offer nothing to alleviate the hardship of the housing situation, or to support the people. Why would they get votes here with their neanderthal nativism?
    I hate London's homophobia

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/londoners-less-tolerant-of-gay-or-transgender-children-polls-reveals-10119183.html
    I see those of us in the North, and the Scots, are the most accepting. Listening to some people here you'd think us northerners were a mass of hatred and bigotry and the south were the enlightened ones.


    Facts versus opinion/guess.
    To be fair u suspect the circles most posters move in are pretty socially liberal.

    They just fail to recognise that multiculturalism has facilitated the implantation of less tolerant cultures
    … who usually rapidly assimilate and take on the social norms of the host culture.
    They used to but doesn’t seem to be happening because with the like of Sharia courts and the Jewish equivalents you can live separate lives

  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,453
    Foxy said:

    Taz said:

    Foxy said:

    As long as the Cons fail to see the multiple issues ordinary people face in just getting by daily then they will continue to decline, and going "full Trump" is certainly not going to arrest that decline. Susan Hall is an awful, harsh sounding candidate and will fail. In the GE they may hang on in a couple of seats, but it's not going to be good for them at all.

    The longer they leave it the worse it will be for them.

    The Tories hate everything about London: it's young university educated population, its cosmopolitan neighbourhoods, its liberality, its impoverished poor, its culture. They offer nothing to alleviate the hardship of the housing situation, or to support the people. Why would they get votes here with their neanderthal nativism?
    I hate London's homophobia

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/londoners-less-tolerant-of-gay-or-transgender-children-polls-reveals-10119183.html
    I see those of us in the North, and the Scots, are the most accepting. Listening to some people here you'd think us northerners were a mass of hatred and bigotry and the south were the enlightened ones.


    Facts versus opinion/guess.
    To be fair u suspect the circles most posters move in are pretty socially liberal.

    They just fail to recognise that multiculturalism has facilitated the implantation of less tolerant cultures

    Is London in 2015 more homophobic and transphobic than London in 1955, when it was much more monoculture?
    I doubt it, but 1955 isn’t the baseline for today thank goodness

  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 5,034

    @Leon : I don't know if you saw this, r if it was covered on PB yesterday, but the owners of the Crooked House have been ordered to rebuild it.

    https://twitter.com/andy4wm/status/1762442547220099419

    Not that I think it'll happen, though... :(

    Sure it wouldn’t pass muster with the building inspectors…
    I understand grandfather rights apply to old buildings - for instance, insulation requirements for windows do not necessarily have to apply to some listed buildings, which can be a pain for homeowners who want the extra insulation double-glazing gives. Or an even bigger pain if the planners insist on wooden-frame double-glazing.

    I've no idea if grandfather rights would apply to this sort of rebuild - I'd have guessed they would. It'd probably be a negotiation, and what we'll end up with is something that we'll be told has the 'character' of the original building. Despite 'character' often being granted from the age...

    (I'm not even sure 'grandfather rights' is the correct term...)
    It’s not usually “grandfather rights” but “grandfathering”

    You are technically in breach of the regulations but because you pre-existed you are deemed in compliance. It’s important that they aren’t “rights” because deemed compliance can be withdrawn by regulatory action

    The idea of a rebuild probably falls between two regulators and will be a negotiation. I hope the owners don’t try to exploit it


    Impoverished elderly friends live on the rural edge of my old patch in the old estate which was the scene for Lady Chatterley's Lover, in a tumbledown rented cottage facing onto empty scrubland. Literally nobody ever walks by. They asked for permission to double-glaze a window as the cottage gets cold, with the landlord's support. It was refused, because out of character with the building.

    I see the point of protection of history, and nobdy is suggesting tearing down St Paul's Cathedral to make room for another KFC. But really, don't we carry it a bit far? Shouldn't "probability that anyone will be disturbed by the change" be a major factor allowing exemptions if the probability is under say 5%?
    The issue of double glazing and insulation on ancient properties is a long ongoing one.

    Did your friend try for secondary glazing? Personally I don't like it, but there are options that include stuff that isn't physically attached into the structure - so completely temporary. Which the listing people can't object to (much).
    My own opinion (which I accept is somewhat unpopular) is that Grade 2 listing should be (mainly) abolished.

    Retain Grade 1. Retain Grade 2*. Retain Grade 2 for monuments.
    Delete all the other Grade 2s. That's c. 90% of all listings, as I understand it.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,231

    @Leon : I don't know if you saw this, r if it was covered on PB yesterday, but the owners of the Crooked House have been ordered to rebuild it.

    https://twitter.com/andy4wm/status/1762442547220099419

    Not that I think it'll happen, though... :(

    Sure it wouldn’t pass muster with the building inspectors…
    I understand grandfather rights apply to old buildings - for instance, insulation requirements for windows do not necessarily have to apply to some listed buildings, which can be a pain for homeowners who want the extra insulation double-glazing gives. Or an even bigger pain if the planners insist on wooden-frame double-glazing.

    I've no idea if grandfather rights would apply to this sort of rebuild - I'd have guessed they would. It'd probably be a negotiation, and what we'll end up with is something that we'll be told has the 'character' of the original building. Despite 'character' often being granted from the age...

    (I'm not even sure 'grandfather rights' is the correct term...)
    It’s not usually “grandfather rights” but “grandfathering”

    You are technically in breach of the regulations but because you pre-existed you are deemed in compliance. It’s important that they aren’t “rights” because deemed compliance can be withdrawn by regulatory action

    The idea of a rebuild probably falls between two regulators and will be a negotiation. I hope the owners don’t try to exploit it


    Impoverished elderly friends live on the rural edge of my old patch in the old estate which was the scene for Lady Chatterley's Lover, in a tumbledown rented cottage facing onto empty scrubland. Literally nobody ever walks by. They asked for permission to double-glaze a window as the cottage gets cold, with the landlord's support. It was refused, because out of character with the building.

    I see the point of protection of history, and nobdy is suggesting tearing down St Paul's Cathedral to make room for another KFC. But really, don't we carry it a bit far? Shouldn't "probability that anyone will be disturbed by the change" be a major factor allowing exemptions if the probability is under say 5%?
    No. This is about the integrity of the building (which may be listed?). The fact that nobody walks by is irrelevant. As is the fact that it is rented.
  • HYUFD said:

    Morning all,

    Worrying result for Biden in Michigan. He needs a ceasefire asap.

    As someone else (truly!) pointed out yesterday, those pro-Palestine Dems are never going to vote for Trump nor abstain for that matter.
    They're in a similar spot to the voters who voted for Ralph Nader in 2000. Gore's failure to convince those voters contributed to his defeat in that election.

    They're not guaranteed voters for Biden.
    Biden may as well push for a ceasefire in Gaza now to secure the Muslim vote in swing state Michigan.

    With even the New York Jewish voters now going for Trump but Biden still well ahead in New York overall he has nothing to lose

    "Majority of New York Jewish voters intend to vote for Trump says new poll - The Jewish Chronicle" https://www.thejc.com/news/usa/majority-of-new-york-jewish-voters-intend-to-vote-for-trump-says-new-poll-j1ejhx7w
    IIUC he already is pushing for a ceasefire and has been for a while. The complication is neither Israel nor Hamas is interested in ceasing the firing.
    Netanyahu is caught between the half of his coalition that wants a deal to rescue the hostages, and the half that wants to salt the Gazan earth, and that's without the half of Israel that wants to see him in the dock.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,565



    Impoverished elderly friends live on the rural edge of my old patch in the old estate which was the scene for Lady Chatterley's Lover, in a tumbledown rented cottage facing onto empty scrubland. Literally nobody ever walks by. They asked for permission to double-glaze a window as the cottage gets cold, with the landlord's support. It was refused, because out of character with the building.

    I see the point of protection of history, and nobdy is suggesting tearing down St Paul's
    Cathedral to make room for another KFC.
    But really, don't we carry it a bit far? Shouldn't "probability that anyone will be
    disturbed by the change" be a major factor
    allowing exemptions if the probability is
    under say 5%?

    Call these guys and speak to Andy

    https://stormwindows.co.uk/

    They are great in situations like this

    Thanks! (also to Malmesbury) I'll pass it on.

    The estate is quite interesting in that the family depicted in Lady Chatterley have absolutely refused to forgive the depiction of their great-grandmother (I think) in the book - no blue plaque, event or other commemoration of DH Lawrence is tolerated in their (still quite extensive) holdings. I do rather see their point - if we had slightly unconventional affairs, how would we feel about them being immortalised (and probably distorted) in a thinly-disguised novel by a neighbouring author? I believe that Somerset Maugham's friends were similarly wary of sharing anything confidential with him, for fear it would turn up in a recognisable short story.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,498

    Looks like the Sun are preparing the ground to support Labour...

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/26194047/labour-rachel-ellie-reeves-sisters-cabinet/


    ...As predicted in a very astute thread header back in January, might I add:

    https://vf.politicalbetting.com/discussion/11909/why-it-won-t-be-the-sun-wot-won-it-in-2024-politicalbetting-com#latest

    Just a bit of a friendly advice.

    Be a bit more modest and self effacing when pointing out to PBers that you were right.
    He is channeling Leon
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,231
    Stocky said:

    @Leon : I don't know if you saw this, r if it was covered on PB yesterday, but the owners of the Crooked House have been ordered to rebuild it.

    https://twitter.com/andy4wm/status/1762442547220099419

    Not that I think it'll happen, though... :(

    Sure it wouldn’t pass muster with the building inspectors…
    I understand grandfather rights apply to old buildings - for instance, insulation requirements for windows do not necessarily have to apply to some listed buildings, which can be a pain for homeowners who want the extra insulation double-glazing gives. Or an even bigger pain if the planners insist on wooden-frame double-glazing.

    I've no idea if grandfather rights would apply to this sort of rebuild - I'd have guessed they would. It'd probably be a negotiation, and what we'll end up with is something that we'll be told has the 'character' of the original building. Despite 'character' often being granted from the age...

    (I'm not even sure 'grandfather rights' is the correct term...)
    It’s not usually “grandfather rights” but “grandfathering”

    You are technically in breach of the regulations but because you pre-existed you are deemed in compliance. It’s important that they aren’t “rights” because deemed compliance can be withdrawn by regulatory action

    The idea of a rebuild probably falls between two regulators and will be a negotiation. I hope the owners don’t try to exploit it


    Impoverished elderly friends live on the rural edge of my old patch in the old estate which was the scene for Lady Chatterley's Lover, in a tumbledown rented cottage facing onto empty scrubland. Literally nobody ever walks by. They asked for permission to double-glaze a window as the cottage gets cold, with the landlord's support. It was refused, because out of character with the building.

    I see the point of protection of history, and nobdy is suggesting tearing down St Paul's Cathedral to make room for another KFC. But really, don't we carry it a bit far? Shouldn't "probability that anyone will be disturbed by the change" be a major factor allowing exemptions if the probability is under say 5%?
    No. This is about the integrity of the building (which may be listed?). The fact that nobody walks by is irrelevant. As is the fact that it is rented.

    Edit: you can get wooden double glazing which many conservation officers would approve.

    https://www.timberwindows.com/our-range/listed-building/?gad_source=1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIgfWgnOXNhAMVOZZQBh3Xfws6EAAYASAAEgK92fD_BwE
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,410

    HYUFD said:

    Morning all,

    Worrying result for Biden in Michigan. He needs a ceasefire asap.

    As someone else (truly!) pointed out yesterday, those pro-Palestine Dems are never going to vote for Trump nor abstain for that matter.
    They're in a similar spot to the voters who voted for Ralph Nader in 2000. Gore's failure to convince those voters contributed to his defeat in that election.

    They're not guaranteed voters for Biden.
    Biden may as well push for a ceasefire in Gaza now to secure the Muslim vote in swing state Michigan.

    With even the New York Jewish voters now going for Trump but Biden still well ahead in New York overall he has nothing to lose

    "Majority of New York Jewish voters intend to vote for Trump says new poll - The Jewish Chronicle" https://www.thejc.com/news/usa/majority-of-new-york-jewish-voters-intend-to-vote-for-trump-says-new-poll-j1ejhx7w
    IIUC he already is pushing for a ceasefire and has been for a while. The complication is neither Israel nor Hamas is interested in ceasing the firing.
    Netanyahu is caught between the half of his coalition that wants a deal to rescue the hostages, and the half that wants to salt the Gazan earth, and that's without the half of Israel that wants to see him in the dock.
    I've no love for him, but he's probably the best in the world at negotiating tricky political situations for his own advantage.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,002

    Leon said:

    Am I in a 787 or a 777, i dunno

    PB travel boffs please decide

    However I just asked the dude here serving my seat and he says this is a whole new Biz Class configuration for Air France. I am on one of the first ever flights. And it is bloody good

    Rather private, endless excellent booze, good selection of movies, Michelin one-rosette food (if not quite Eva), this is the first European flyer that, to me, stands toe to toe with the Emirates/East Asian airlines

    Definitely ahead of BA, miles better than Lufthansa/SwissAir etc

    The French are going for it

    But it is Air France.

    Air France pilots are under scrutiny after a series of incidents that have raised concerns over safety protocols on flights operated by the French flagship carrier, prompting aviation investigators to reprimand the airline last week.

    The latest incident to come to light involved two pilots who were suspended after a physical fight in the cockpit of an A320 plane in flight from Geneva to Paris in June, a spokesman for Air France said Monday, confirming a report in the French newspaper La Tribune. He added that the flight continued on and landed safely.

    The news of the fight has come amid broader concerns about flight safety at Air France. A few days ago, French investigators issued a report saying the airline’s pilots lacked rigor in following safety procedures.

    Investigators said several recent incidents suggested “that a certain culture has been established among some Air France crews, favoring a propensity to underestimate the benefits of a strict application of procedures for safety.”


    https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/29/world/europe/air-france-safety.html
    That’s beautiful bureaucratese

    “They are risk-taking sloppy f**kwits”

    If you’ve ever read AAIB reports, they’re full of such bureaucratese. The masterclass was probably the conclusion of the investigation into Colin McRae’s helicopter crash, which took a couple of hundred words to say what could have been said in a dozen - that the guy was a reckless dick of a pilot, who killed himself and others for no reason.

    Conclusion
    The cause of the accident was not positively determined. Although no technical reason was found to explain it,
    a technical fault, whilst considered unlikely, could not be ruled out entirely. The available evidence indicated
    that the helicopter was intact when it struck the trees and that the engine was delivering power. The aircraft’s
    trajectory suggested that the pilot was in control of the aircraft at the time of impact and was attempting to
    recover from a significant deviation from his intended flight path when the helicopter struck the trees.

    The descent into the Mouse Water Valley appears to have been a deliberate manoeuvre. Considering the
    video evidence, the pilot’s intention was probably to fly a hard, right turn at low height within the valley,
    possibly leading to a further, final zoom climb before landing at the helipad. A high-speed, low-level
    turning manoeuvre in the heavily wooded valley was a demanding one, which would have subjected
    the helicopter and its occupants to an increased risk. The circumstances of the accident, which included a
    strong tailwind, suggest that the pilot needed to fly an unexpectedly high performance manoeuvre which led
    to, or contributed to, the flight path deviation. This deviation may have been due to a servo transparency
    encounter, spatial disorientation, misjudgement or some other factor or combination of factors.


    https://assets.digital.cabinet-office.gov.uk/media/5423023c40f0b61346000be7/Eurocopter_AS350B2_Squirrel__G-CBHL_02-09.pdf
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,468



    Impoverished elderly friends live on the rural edge of my old patch in the old estate which was the scene for Lady Chatterley's Lover, in a tumbledown rented cottage facing onto empty scrubland. Literally nobody ever walks by. They asked for permission to double-glaze a window as the cottage gets cold, with the landlord's support. It was refused, because out of character with the building.

    I see the point of protection of history, and nobdy is suggesting tearing down St Paul's
    Cathedral to make room for another KFC.
    But really, don't we carry it a bit far? Shouldn't "probability that anyone will be
    disturbed by the change" be a major factor
    allowing exemptions if the probability is
    under say 5%?

    Call these guys and speak to Andy

    https://stormwindows.co.uk/

    They are great in situations like this

    Thanks! (also to Malmesbury) I'll pass it on.

    The estate is quite interesting in that the family depicted in Lady Chatterley have absolutely refused to forgive the depiction of their great-grandmother (I think) in the book - no blue plaque, event or other commemoration of DH Lawrence is tolerated in their (still quite extensive) holdings. I do rather see their point - if we had slightly unconventional affairs, how would we feel about them being immortalised (and probably distorted) in a thinly-disguised novel by a neighbouring author? I believe that Somerset Maugham's friends were similarly wary of sharing anything confidential with him, for fear it would turn up in a recognisable short story.
    My granddad allegedly met DH Lawrence. Granddad was an avid cyclist, and when a young lad, we went for a ride through Derbyshire. He was running out of water, so stopped at a random cottage to ask for some. It was the cottage DH Lawrence was staying in, and they had a quick chat.

    Given granddad's age, and Lawrence's well-known travels, it must have been immediately post-WW1.

    One of the many things I wish I'd asked granddad more about.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,119
    Stocky said:

    Stocky said:

    @Leon : I don't know if you saw this, r if it was covered on PB yesterday, but the owners of the Crooked House have been ordered to rebuild it.

    https://twitter.com/andy4wm/status/1762442547220099419

    Not that I think it'll happen, though... :(

    Sure it wouldn’t pass muster with the building inspectors…
    I understand grandfather rights apply to old buildings - for instance, insulation requirements for windows do not necessarily have to apply to some listed buildings, which can be a pain for homeowners who want the extra insulation double-glazing gives. Or an even bigger pain if the planners insist on wooden-frame double-glazing.

    I've no idea if grandfather rights would apply to this sort of rebuild - I'd have guessed they would. It'd probably be a negotiation, and what we'll end up with is something that we'll be told has the 'character' of the original building. Despite 'character' often being granted from the age...

    (I'm not even sure 'grandfather rights' is the correct term...)
    It’s not usually “grandfather rights” but “grandfathering”

    You are technically in breach of the regulations but because you pre-existed you are deemed in compliance. It’s important that they aren’t “rights” because deemed compliance can be withdrawn by regulatory action

    The idea of a rebuild probably falls between two regulators and will be a negotiation. I hope the owners don’t try to exploit it


    Impoverished elderly friends live on the rural edge of my old patch in the old estate which was the scene for Lady Chatterley's Lover, in a tumbledown rented cottage facing onto empty scrubland. Literally nobody ever walks by. They asked for permission to double-glaze a window as the cottage gets cold, with the landlord's support. It was refused, because out of character with the building.

    I see the point of protection of history, and nobdy is suggesting tearing down St Paul's Cathedral to make room for another KFC. But really, don't we carry it a bit far? Shouldn't "probability that anyone will be disturbed by the change" be a major factor allowing exemptions if the probability is under say 5%?
    No. This is about the integrity of the building (which may be listed?). The fact that nobody walks by is irrelevant. As is the fact that it is rented.

    Edit: you can get wooden double glazing which many conservation officers would approve.

    https://www.timberwindows.com/our-range/listed-building/?gad_source=1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIgfWgnOXNhAMVOZZQBh3Xfws6EAAYASAAEgK92fD_BwE
    It depends on the level of listing - the ultra low impact secondary glazing (mentioned above) is pretty much certain to be approved.

    There is even a DIY thing you can do with thermal film (somewhat like cling film) - some friends in a rented property did that when they were quite poor.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,119
    Nigelb said:
    Haven't you got the memo? Racist death threats against politicians are just a form of social expression. They should man up and enjoy the experience or something.
  • HYUFD said:

    Morning all,

    Worrying result for Biden in Michigan. He needs a ceasefire asap.

    As someone else (truly!) pointed out yesterday, those pro-Palestine Dems are never going to vote for Trump nor abstain for that matter.
    They're in a similar spot to the voters who voted for Ralph Nader in 2000. Gore's failure to convince those voters contributed to his defeat in that election.

    They're not guaranteed voters for Biden.
    Biden may as well push for a ceasefire in Gaza now to secure the Muslim vote in swing state Michigan.

    With even the New York Jewish voters now going for Trump but Biden still well ahead in New York overall he has nothing to lose

    "Majority of New York Jewish voters intend to vote for Trump says new poll - The Jewish Chronicle" https://www.thejc.com/news/usa/majority-of-new-york-jewish-voters-intend-to-vote-for-trump-says-new-poll-j1ejhx7w
    IIUC he already is pushing for a ceasefire and has been for a while. The complication is neither Israel nor Hamas is interested in ceasing the firing.
    Netanyahu is caught between the half of his coalition that wants a deal to rescue the hostages, and the half that wants to salt the Gazan earth, and that's without the half of Israel that wants to see him in the dock.

    Netanyahu is focused entirely on how he can delay an election that will see him lose power and lose the ability to escape the courts.

  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,220
    Nigelb said:
    That's not the killer point the Guardian thinks it is.
  • PhilPhil Posts: 2,335
    Stocky said:

    @Leon : I don't know if you saw this, r if it was covered on PB yesterday, but the owners of the Crooked House have been ordered to rebuild it.

    https://twitter.com/andy4wm/status/1762442547220099419

    Not that I think it'll happen, though... :(

    Sure it wouldn’t pass muster with the building inspectors…
    I understand grandfather rights apply to old buildings - for instance, insulation requirements for windows do not necessarily have to apply to some listed buildings, which can be a pain for homeowners who want the extra insulation double-glazing gives. Or an even bigger pain if the planners insist on wooden-frame double-glazing.

    I've no idea if grandfather rights would apply to this sort of rebuild - I'd have guessed they would. It'd probably be a negotiation, and what we'll end up with is something that we'll be told has the 'character' of the original building. Despite 'character' often being granted from the age...

    (I'm not even sure 'grandfather rights' is the correct term...)
    It’s not usually “grandfather rights” but “grandfathering”

    You are technically in breach of the regulations but because you pre-existed you are deemed in compliance. It’s important that they aren’t “rights” because deemed compliance can be withdrawn by regulatory action

    The idea of a rebuild probably falls between two regulators and will be a negotiation. I hope the owners don’t try to exploit it


    Impoverished elderly friends live on the rural edge of my old patch in the old estate which was the scene for Lady Chatterley's Lover, in a tumbledown rented cottage facing onto empty scrubland. Literally nobody ever walks by. They asked for permission to double-glaze a window as the cottage gets cold, with the landlord's support. It was refused, because out of character with the building.

    I see the point of protection of history, and nobdy is suggesting tearing down St Paul's Cathedral to make room for another KFC. But really, don't we carry it a bit far? Shouldn't "probability that anyone will be disturbed by the change" be a major factor allowing exemptions if the probability is under say 5%?
    No. This is about the integrity of the building (which may be listed?). The fact that nobody walks by is irrelevant. As is the fact that it is rented.
    I personally think this particular rule - that no glazing changes are permitted because it “changes the look of the building” is absolutely ludicrous.

    We need to loosen Grade II listing permissions to permit these kind of small changes, especially reversible ones like glazing changes.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,187
    tlg86 said:

    Nigelb said:
    That's not the killer point the Guardian thinks it is.
    That's either a poor attempt at humour, or an exceedingly stupid take on the article.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,565
    Stocky said:



    No. This is about the integrity of the building (which may be listed?). The fact that nobody walks by is irrelevant. As is the fact that it is rented.

    I agree that rental status is irrelevant (I only mentioned it to make it clear that they weren't seeking to upgrade the value of the property). But why is the historical integrity of a building that nobody ever looks at important? It's like getting worked up about the National Gallery selling a painting abroad even though they never put it on show.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,231
    Phil said:

    Stocky said:

    @Leon : I don't know if you saw this, r if it was covered on PB yesterday, but the owners of the Crooked House have been ordered to rebuild it.

    https://twitter.com/andy4wm/status/1762442547220099419

    Not that I think it'll happen, though... :(

    Sure it wouldn’t pass muster with the building inspectors…
    I understand grandfather rights apply to old buildings - for instance, insulation requirements for windows do not necessarily have to apply to some listed buildings, which can be a pain for homeowners who want the extra insulation double-glazing gives. Or an even bigger pain if the planners insist on wooden-frame double-glazing.

    I've no idea if grandfather rights would apply to this sort of rebuild - I'd have guessed they would. It'd probably be a negotiation, and what we'll end up with is something that we'll be told has the 'character' of the original building. Despite 'character' often being granted from the age...

    (I'm not even sure 'grandfather rights' is the correct term...)
    It’s not usually “grandfather rights” but “grandfathering”

    You are technically in breach of the regulations but because you pre-existed you are deemed in compliance. It’s important that they aren’t “rights” because deemed compliance can be withdrawn by regulatory action

    The idea of a rebuild probably falls between two regulators and will be a negotiation. I hope the owners don’t try to exploit it


    Impoverished elderly friends live on the rural edge of my old patch in the old estate which was the scene for Lady Chatterley's Lover, in a tumbledown rented cottage facing onto empty scrubland. Literally nobody ever walks by. They asked for permission to double-glaze a window as the cottage gets cold, with the landlord's support. It was refused, because out of character with the building.

    I see the point of protection of history, and nobdy is suggesting tearing down St Paul's Cathedral to make room for another KFC. But really, don't we carry it a bit far? Shouldn't "probability that anyone will be disturbed by the change" be a major factor allowing exemptions if the probability is under say 5%?
    No. This is about the integrity of the building (which may be listed?). The fact that nobody walks by is irrelevant. As is the fact that it is rented.
    I personally think this particular rule - that no glazing changes are permitted because it “changes the look of the building” is absolutely ludicrous.

    We need to loosen Grade II listing permissions to permit these kind of small changes, especially reversible ones like glazing changes.
    Putting in plastic windows on the cheap is not a small change. I linked below to an acceptable option which would protect the integrity of the property and locale.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,220
    edited February 28
    Nigelb said:

    tlg86 said:

    Nigelb said:
    That's not the killer point the Guardian thinks it is.
    That's either a poor attempt at humour, or an exceedingly stupid take on the article.
    Nobody who is sensible thinks Khan is under the thumb of Islamists. We don't need to be told this to prove it.

    Previously, we've been told about the far-right threats to Khan, but now it's convenient, they tell us about the Islamist threats.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,119
    Phil said:

    Stocky said:

    @Leon : I don't know if you saw this, r if it was covered on PB yesterday, but the owners of the Crooked House have been ordered to rebuild it.

    https://twitter.com/andy4wm/status/1762442547220099419

    Not that I think it'll happen, though... :(

    Sure it wouldn’t pass muster with the building inspectors…
    I understand grandfather rights apply to old buildings - for instance, insulation requirements for windows do not necessarily have to apply to some listed buildings, which can be a pain for homeowners who want the extra insulation double-glazing gives. Or an even bigger pain if the planners insist on wooden-frame double-glazing.

    I've no idea if grandfather rights would apply to this sort of rebuild - I'd have guessed they would. It'd probably be a negotiation, and what we'll end up with is something that we'll be told has the 'character' of the original building. Despite 'character' often being granted from the age...

    (I'm not even sure 'grandfather rights' is the correct term...)
    It’s not usually “grandfather rights” but “grandfathering”

    You are technically in breach of the regulations but because you pre-existed you are deemed in compliance. It’s important that they aren’t “rights” because deemed compliance can be withdrawn by regulatory action

    The idea of a rebuild probably falls between two regulators and will be a negotiation. I hope the owners don’t try to exploit it


    Impoverished elderly friends live on the rural edge of my old patch in the old estate which was the scene for Lady Chatterley's Lover, in a tumbledown rented cottage facing onto empty scrubland. Literally nobody ever walks by. They asked for permission to double-glaze a window as the cottage gets cold, with the landlord's support. It was refused, because out of character with the building.

    I see the point of protection of history, and nobdy is suggesting tearing down St Paul's Cathedral to make room for another KFC. But really, don't we carry it a bit far? Shouldn't "probability that anyone will be disturbed by the change" be a major factor allowing exemptions if the probability is under say 5%?
    No. This is about the integrity of the building (which may be listed?). The fact that nobody walks by is irrelevant. As is the fact that it is rented.
    I personally think this particular rule - that no glazing changes are permitted because it “changes the look of the building” is absolutely ludicrous.

    We need to loosen Grade II listing permissions to permit these kind of small changes, especially reversible ones like glazing changes.
    Especially since, in many cases, the windows are not original and are pretty bad.

    I can think of several listed properties, locally, where new sash windows with double glazing were put in that matched the original fabric far better than what they replaced.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 23,155
    Nigelb said:

    148grss said:

    There's a great part in Pratchett's Going Postal where a character describes the con the men who own the Grand Trunk are playing - I don't have the book in front of me, but it's along the lines of: you see an asset that could turn a profit that is currently owned by people who care about the asset as a system and not an asset and therefore do not have a head for business. As someone who wants to turn a profit, you approach these men with no heads for business and say you want to invest in that asset. They agree, always wanting money to spend tinkering in their sheds to improve the systems they care about, and sign your documents. Eventually, you run out of that first bit of money, so when they say they're happy to invest again you sign again without question. But this time you've sold more than a 50% share in the asset, so you no longer own it, and now people with heads for business are in charge and they don't care if the system works - they care that it makes money. So maintenance stops, because that's a cost that doesn't return short term profit, and the system is always pushed to breaking point to make the most money off of it. They bought it dirt cheap, they suck it dry whilst running it into the ground, and they'll also likely make a profit selling it off afterwards to another rube or to the state who need the system to exist for the functioning of society.

    Anyway, I give this extremely long preface (apologies as always @TOPPING) to share this unrelated news:

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/live/2024/feb/28/thames-water-lobbying-higher-bills-lower-fines-avoid-bailout-report-claims-somerset-gigafactory-bridgend-tata-us-gdp-business-live

    It's an interesting point when the asset is a monopoly public utility like Thames Water.

    Thames Water lobbying government to let it increase bills by 40%
    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2024/feb/28/thames-water-lobbying-government-bills-dividends-fines-breaches-taxpayer-bailout

    It is not obvious to me that it's a good deal for the UK to force Thames customers effectively to bail out a commercial entity which has previously extracted massive dividends from the business, and which, without the deal which the owners are lobbying for, is effectively bankrupt.

    We should put in into administration, and government should take control of the business. The shareholders and bondholders would take massive losses, but that would serve as a useful warning to the commercial owners of UK public service utilities (often overseas) who have been taking the piss for decades.

    Government can probably borrow more cheaply anyway, and the necessary price rises for the needed infrastructure improvement would be significantly less. And any future profits would remain in the UK.
    An alternative fair plan could be to treat the bill a bit like a share issue.

    So let them increase it by the 40% they need but half the company goes to the customers who pay the bills and existing shareholders get diluted.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,231

    Stocky said:



    No. This is about the integrity of the building (which may be listed?). The fact that nobody walks by is irrelevant. As is the fact that it is rented.

    I agree that rental status is irrelevant (I only mentioned it to make it clear that they weren't seeking to upgrade the value of the property). But why is the historical integrity of a building that nobody ever looks at important? It's like getting worked up about the National Gallery selling a painting abroad even though they never put it on show.
    Because this is about intrinsic value not instrumental value. Conservation officers protect the integrity of the building and in doing so the high standards and beauty of what little we have left.
  • Have we done this report from More in Common?

    https://www.moreincommon.org.uk/media/l22j0l3z/behind-the-voting-intention.pdf

    With the summary write up

    https://www.moreincommon.org.uk/our-work/research/behind-the-voting-intention/

    It came out last Friday, but I have not seen much commentary on it.

    Some interesting attributes:

    More Tory voters have gone to “Don’t know” than switched to Labour


    Direct switching between the two main parties is important, but far from the only dynamic at this election. Unlike previous elections the Don’t Knows are unusually Conservative in their profile.

    Conservative 2019 voters have diverged, in part, on gender lines

    The profile of voters who voted Conservative in 2019 but are now undecided is overwhelmingly female(~70%), older than average (61) and disproportionately likely to live in small towns or suburbs. These voters are key as where they ultimately give their support will decide the size and shape of any Labour victory.

    Switchers don’t want tax cuts

    Those who have switched directly from the Conservative to Labour Party are among the least likely to support tax cuts. Instead this group has a strong preference for greater investment in public services.

    Cost of living remains dominant

    Cost of living ranks as the number one issue facing the country - for every single voter group. Despite falling inflation it remains the most potent driver of support away from the Conservatives.


    Culture wars aren’t vote winners


    Big issues such as the cost of living, NHS, climate and immigration are far more significant in deciding people’s votes than issues like gender identity or political correctness. There is only a minority appeal for the European Convention on Human Rights (ECHR) withdrawal among the most right leaning voters.

    Crime is increasingly salient

    For the key swing voter groups tackling crime is among the top priorities for the next government. Less surprisingly, concerns about the NHS continue to dominate with waiting list horror stories a focus group staple.


    Party leaders aren’t wowing voters


    The party leaders are not a top draw for any of the key voter groups. People are more likely to be voting against a leader of another party than for their leader. This election will be about parties not personalities.
  • Cont.

    Liberal Democrats are anti-Tory voters

    More so than other parties, Liberal Democrat voters are not motivated by specific policies, but instead a desire to get the Tories out. The profile of Liberal Democrat voters today is more ‘Social Democrat’ than Nick Clegg style ‘Orange Book Liberal'

    Reform UK voters are unlikely to return to the Conservatives

    The overwhelming reason that people are voting Reform UK is to protest Conservative policies on immigration. They are particularly ‘anti system’ - and are for instance the strongest supporters of House of Lords abolition. The Conservatives are unlikely to win many of them back.

    Nigel Farage, not Richard Tice, is attracting people to Reform

    The appeal of Nigel Farage is a significant driver of support among those planning on voting for the right wing party - other Reform figures do not have the same pull.


    Labour’s second most popular policy with its supporters has now been scrapped


    The £28bn climate investment pledge was popular with likely Labour voters. Other Labour policies - particularly removing private school tax breaks are also popular with their potential voter coalition.

    The SNP is bleeding votes dramatically to Labour in Scotland

    Since 2019, the SNP have lost 36 per cent of their voters - including 15 per cent to Labour, and a further 10 per cent to “the Don’t Knows”. Independence is the only glue keeping this group together.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,187

    Nigelb said:

    148grss said:

    There's a great part in Pratchett's Going Postal where a character describes the con the men who own the Grand Trunk are playing - I don't have the book in front of me, but it's along the lines of: you see an asset that could turn a profit that is currently owned by people who care about the asset as a system and not an asset and therefore do not have a head for business. As someone who wants to turn a profit, you approach these men with no heads for business and say you want to invest in that asset. They agree, always wanting money to spend tinkering in their sheds to improve the systems they care about, and sign your documents. Eventually, you run out of that first bit of money, so when they say they're happy to invest again you sign again without question. But this time you've sold more than a 50% share in the asset, so you no longer own it, and now people with heads for business are in charge and they don't care if the system works - they care that it makes money. So maintenance stops, because that's a cost that doesn't return short term profit, and the system is always pushed to breaking point to make the most money off of it. They bought it dirt cheap, they suck it dry whilst running it into the ground, and they'll also likely make a profit selling it off afterwards to another rube or to the state who need the system to exist for the functioning of society.

    Anyway, I give this extremely long preface (apologies as always @TOPPING) to share this unrelated news:

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/live/2024/feb/28/thames-water-lobbying-higher-bills-lower-fines-avoid-bailout-report-claims-somerset-gigafactory-bridgend-tata-us-gdp-business-live

    It's an interesting point when the asset is a monopoly public utility like Thames Water.

    Thames Water lobbying government to let it increase bills by 40%
    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2024/feb/28/thames-water-lobbying-government-bills-dividends-fines-breaches-taxpayer-bailout

    It is not obvious to me that it's a good deal for the UK to force Thames customers effectively to bail out a commercial entity which has previously extracted massive dividends from the business, and which, without the deal which the owners are lobbying for, is effectively bankrupt.

    We should put in into administration, and government should take control of the business. The shareholders and bondholders would take massive losses, but that would serve as a useful warning to the commercial owners of UK public service utilities (often overseas) who have been taking the piss for decades.

    Government can probably borrow more cheaply anyway, and the necessary price rises for the needed infrastructure improvement would be significantly less. And any future profits would remain in the UK.
    An alternative fair plan could be to treat the bill a bit like a share issue.

    So let them increase it by the 40% they need but half the company goes to the customers who pay the bills and existing shareholders get diluted.
    The point is that a good deal of the £14bn accumulated debt was taken out merely to pay overseas dividends. Any arrangement which doesn't impose a massive write down of that debt continues to penalise bill payers.
    Administration is the simplest option, and would avoid a politically fraught argument over nationalisation.

    Your idea could come later.
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,932
    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    Morning all,

    Worrying result for Biden in Michigan. He needs a ceasefire asap.

    Gazans need a ceasefire ASAP.

    Biden is clearly over 80%, and "uncommitted" seems to be not much higher than it was when Obama ran for reelection?
    The 'uncommitted' vote numbers weren't ideal for him, but they've been seriously overhyped.

    Trump has more reason to be concerned about the significant vote Haley is still getting, despite is being clear that she's no chance of getting the nomination (unless events take him out of the running completely).
    Haley's vote was down in Michigan though at least than 30%. It only becomes a concern for Trump if some of her supporters vote for Biden not Trump.

    Most uncommitted voters won't vote for Trump but Biden still needs them to turn out for him in November
    "One of the most remarkable statistics that we have seen so far in the election is these Haley voters in the three early States willingness to not just not vote for Trump but to vote for Biden"
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJcAu3-RRsc
  • This tends to suggest that the only main potential movement back to the Conservatives are their don't knows. Both Conservative to Labour and Conservative to Reform switchers appear to have gone.

    Are the Conservatives focusing on retaining those don't knows, or are their current policies and approach focused on another section of the electorate?
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,142

    This tends to suggest that the only main potential movement back to the Conservatives are their don't knows. Both Conservative to Labour and Conservative to Reform switchers appear to have gone.

    Are the Conservatives focusing on retaining those don't knows, or are their current policies and approach focused on another section of the electorate?

    My feeling is the more in common report doesn't capture the scale of the Conservative voter strike, and the depth of their feeling. Many activists I know think Sunak is hopeless and aren't prepared to help what many see as too 'big-government' a government get reelected.

    This will only be worse after May, when the councillor base will likely be much smaller too.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,771

    This tends to suggest that the only main potential movement back to the Conservatives are their don't knows. Both Conservative to Labour and Conservative to Reform switchers appear to have gone.

    Are the Conservatives focusing on retaining those don't knows, or are their current policies and approach focused on another section of the electorate?

    They aren't focused on anything beyond self-indulgent infighting to establish the hierarchy in opposition.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,187
    Without tariffs, the Chinese auto industry is going to be a huge threat to all western manufacturers.

    American Test Of $11,500 BYD Seagull: 'This Doesn't Come Across Cheap'
    The imported EV hatchback may only cost $11,500 but it impressed industry veteran John McElroy.
    https://insideevs.com/news/710364/byd-detroit-import-seagull-caresoft/
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 5,059

    Nigelb said:

    148grss said:

    There's a great part in Pratchett's Going Postal where a character describes the con the men who own the Grand Trunk are playing - I don't have the book in front of me, but it's along the lines of: you see an asset that could turn a profit that is currently owned by people who care about the asset as a system and not an asset and therefore do not have a head for business. As someone who wants to turn a profit, you approach these men with no heads for business and say you want to invest in that asset. They agree, always wanting money to spend tinkering in their sheds to improve the systems they care about, and sign your documents. Eventually, you run out of that first bit of money, so when they say they're happy to invest again you sign again without question. But this time you've sold more than a 50% share in the asset, so you no longer own it, and now people with heads for business are in charge and they don't care if the system works - they care that it makes money. So maintenance stops, because that's a cost that doesn't return short term profit, and the system is always pushed to breaking point to make the most money off of it. They bought it dirt cheap, they suck it dry whilst running it into the ground, and they'll also likely make a profit selling it off afterwards to another rube or to the state who need the system to exist for the functioning of society.

    Anyway, I give this extremely long preface (apologies as always @TOPPING) to share this unrelated news:

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/live/2024/feb/28/thames-water-lobbying-higher-bills-lower-fines-avoid-bailout-report-claims-somerset-gigafactory-bridgend-tata-us-gdp-business-live

    It's an interesting point when the asset is a monopoly public utility like Thames Water.

    Thames Water lobbying government to let it increase bills by 40%
    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2024/feb/28/thames-water-lobbying-government-bills-dividends-fines-breaches-taxpayer-bailout

    It is not obvious to me that it's a good deal for the UK to force Thames customers effectively to bail out a commercial entity which has previously extracted massive dividends from the business, and which, without the deal which the owners are lobbying for, is effectively bankrupt.

    We should put in into administration, and government should take control of the business. The shareholders and bondholders would take massive losses, but that would serve as a useful warning to the commercial owners of UK public service utilities (often overseas) who have been taking the piss for decades.

    Government can probably borrow more cheaply anyway, and the necessary price rises for the needed infrastructure improvement would be significantly less. And any future profits would remain in the UK.
    An alternative fair plan could be to treat the bill a bit like a share issue.

    So let them increase it by the 40% they need but half the company goes to the customers who pay the bills and existing shareholders get diluted.

    Nigelb said:

    148grss said:

    There's a great part in Pratchett's Going Postal where a character describes the con the men who own the Grand Trunk are playing - I don't have the book in front of me, but it's along the lines of: you see an asset that could turn a profit that is currently owned by people who care about the asset as a system and not an asset and therefore do not have a head for business. As someone who wants to turn a profit, you approach these men with no heads for business and say you want to invest in that asset. They agree, always wanting money to spend tinkering in their sheds to improve the systems they care about, and sign your documents. Eventually, you run out of that first bit of money, so when they say they're happy to invest again you sign again without question. But this time you've sold more than a 50% share in the asset, so you no longer own it, and now people with heads for business are in charge and they don't care if the system works - they care that it makes money. So maintenance stops, because that's a cost that doesn't return short term profit, and the system is always pushed to breaking point to make the most money off of it. They bought it dirt cheap, they suck it dry whilst running it into the ground, and they'll also likely make a profit selling it off afterwards to another rube or to the state who need the system to exist for the functioning of society.

    Anyway, I give this extremely long preface (apologies as always @TOPPING) to share this unrelated news:

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/live/2024/feb/28/thames-water-lobbying-higher-bills-lower-fines-avoid-bailout-report-claims-somerset-gigafactory-bridgend-tata-us-gdp-business-live

    It's an interesting point when the asset is a monopoly public utility like Thames Water.

    Thames Water lobbying government to let it increase bills by 40%
    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2024/feb/28/thames-water-lobbying-government-bills-dividends-fines-breaches-taxpayer-bailout

    It is not obvious to me that it's a good deal for the UK to force Thames customers effectively to bail out a commercial entity which has previously extracted massive dividends from the business, and which, without the deal which the owners are lobbying for, is effectively bankrupt.

    We should put in into administration, and government should take control of the business. The shareholders and bondholders would take massive losses, but that would serve as a useful warning to the commercial owners of UK public service utilities (often overseas) who have been taking the piss for decades.

    Government can probably borrow more cheaply anyway, and the necessary price rises for the needed infrastructure improvement would be significantly less. And any future profits would remain in the UK.
    An alternative fair plan could be to treat the bill a bit like a share issue.

    So let them increase it by the 40% they need but half the company goes to the customers who pay the bills and existing shareholders get diluted.
    The problem with that idea is that many of the customers will immediately sell their shares to the existing shareholders, to make a quick buck.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,410
    Mortimer said:

    This tends to suggest that the only main potential movement back to the Conservatives are their don't knows. Both Conservative to Labour and Conservative to Reform switchers appear to have gone.

    Are the Conservatives focusing on retaining those don't knows, or are their current policies and approach focused on another section of the electorate?

    My feeling is the more in common report doesn't capture the scale of the Conservative voter strike, and the depth of their feeling. Many activists I know think Sunak is hopeless and aren't prepared to help what many see as too 'big-government' a government get reelected.

    This will only be worse after May, when the councillor base will likely be much smaller too.
    The losses if it's council only elections in May will be bad, but my suspicion is they'd be worse if there was a GE as the "extra" turnout will be more favourable to Labour.
This discussion has been closed.