politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » It’s being reported that Salmond will try to make his come-
Interesting. Salmond said to be planning bid to stand in Danny Alexander's seat at GE15 http://t.co/B5ei68uLG5
Comments
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I've said there'll be loads of 1992 kinda results next year.
Interesting that Salmond took your advice and decided not to stand in Gordon0 -
There could be some interesting betting markets like how many sub-30% winners will there beTheScreamingEagles said:I've said there'll be loads of 1992 kinda results next year.
Interesting that Salmond took your advice and decided not to stand in Gordon
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Come on Palace!0
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FPT - Pig-dog traitor became common usage after North Korean used it.
I think the correct phrase was, the thrice cursed, despicable human scum, worse than a pig-dog traitor.0 -
Yup, my own big prediction for next year.MikeSmithson said:
There could be some interesting betting markets like how many sub-30% winners will there beTheScreamingEagles said:I've said there'll be loads of 1992 kinda results next year.
Interesting that Salmond took your advice and decided not to stand in Gordon
UNS is going to look really silly.0 -
@TSE I'm not sure who hates England more, Owens or Stuart Barnes0
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Another good example of rules of thumb contradicting each other:
1. Decapitation attempts never work
2. The Lib Dems are beyond saving
I suspect #2 will be victorious in this case.0 -
Bah, leave Stuart Barnes alone.JonnyJimmy said:@TSE I'm not sure who hates England more, Owens or Stuart Barnes
In terms of England haters, I'd put Nigel Owens on a par with David Campese.0 -
I've had this nasty feeling since about 2011 that Danny was doomed.Quincel said:Another good example of rules of thumb contradicting each other:
1. Decapitation attempts never work
2. The Lib Dems are beyond saving
I suspect #2 will be victorious in this case.
However, I wonder if Tory/Lab Unionists will back Danny Alexander, and vote tactically to defeat Alex Salmond for the second time in 8 months.
Just look how unpopular Salmond is, since he quit, the Nats have been surging in the polls
h/t TGOHF0 -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weasel_word
A weasel word (also, anonymous authority) is an informal term[1] for words and phrases aimed at creating an impression that a specific and/or meaningful statement has been made, when in fact only a vague or ambiguous claim has been communicated, enabling the specific meaning to be denied if the statement is challenged. A more formal term is equivocation.
The use of weasel words to avoid making an outright assertion is a synonym to tergiversate.[2] Weasel words can imply meaning far beyond the claim actually being made.[3] Some weasel words may also have the effect of softening the force of a potentially loaded or otherwise controversial statement through some form of understatement, for example using detensifiers such as "somewhat" or "in most respects".[4]
Weasel words can be used in advertising and in political statements, where encouraging the audience to develop a misleading impression of what was said can lead to advantages, at least in the short term (in the longer term, systematic deception is likely to be identified, with a loss of trust in the speaker).
[..]
Examples
"A growing body of evidence..."[14] (Where is the raw data for your review?)
"People say..." (Which people? How do they know?)
"It has been claimed that..." (By whom, where, when?)
"Critics claim..." (Which critics?)
"Clearly..." (As if the premise is undeniably true)
"It stands to reason that..." (Again, as if the premise is undeniably true—see "Clearly" above)
"Questions have been raised..." (Implies a fatal flaw has been discovered)
"I heard that..." (Who told you? Is the source reliable?)
"There is evidence that..." (What evidence? Is the source reliable?)
"Experience shows that..." (Whose experience? What was the experience? How does it demonstrate this?)
"It has been mentioned that..." (Who are these mentioners? Can they be trusted?)
"Popular wisdom has it that..." (Is popular wisdom a test of truth?)
"Commonsense has it/insists that..." (The common sense of whom? Who says so? See "Popular wisdom" above, and "It is known that" below)
"It is known that..." (By whom and by what method is it known?)
"Officially known as..." (By whom, where, when—who says so?)
"It turns out that..." (How does it turn out?¹)
"It was noted that..." (By whom, why, when?)
"Nobody else's product is better than ours." (What is the evidence of this?)
"Studies show..." (what studies?)
"A recent study at a leading university..." (How recent is your study? At what university?)
"(The phenomenon) came to be seen as..." (by whom?)
"Some argue..." (who?)
"Up to sixty percent..." (so, 59%? 50%? 10%?)
"More than seventy percent..." (How many more? 70.01%? 80%? 90%?)
"The vast majority..." (All, more than half—how many?)
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If there are, it suggests that tactical voting will either not be a consideration for most voters, or that if it is, they're unable to apply it effectively, as a whole.TheScreamingEagles said:I've said there'll be loads of 1992 kinda results next year.
...0 -
FPT: Mr. Llama, aye, there's top notch acting everywhere one looks in that series.
Also, I forget if my last haircut was £3.50 or £4. I think the price rose to £4 fairly recently (contemplating buying some clippers and just shaving it all off, to be honest).
Dr. Prasannan, Nishikori seems to be a pretty good player. Murray should beat him, though.0 -
If this is true then Osborne is exposed as a liar:
Jacek DOMINIK
Commissioner for Financial Programming and Budget
Jacek Dominik's statement on the revision of member states' gross national income (GNI)
Press conference
Brussels, 27 October 2014
"Let me point out in this respect that the UK will benefit from the UK rebate for the additional payments in 2014."
http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_SPEECH-14-723_en.htm
On this subject can anyone provide an example when UK-EU financial transactions were deemed to have no effect on the UK Rebate ?
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On the haircut discussion mine costs £5.50
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Hmmm The Highlands voted NO by a surprisingly large amount. 53:47. IIRC it was expected to be a lot closer.0
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Dream on. The invigorated Alan Johnson-led LAB party will highlight the Cameron team's big weakness - they don't represent "people like us". Johnson used to be the deliver the mail at Chequers.TheScreamingEagles said:
Yup, my own big prediction for next year.MikeSmithson said:
There could be some interesting betting markets like how many sub-30% winners will there beTheScreamingEagles said:I've said there'll be loads of 1992 kinda results next year.
Interesting that Salmond took your advice and decided not to stand in Gordon
UNS is going to look really silly.
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I bow to your superior knowledge, TSE.TheScreamingEagles said:FPT - Pig-dog traitor became common usage after North Korean used it.
I think the correct phrase was, the thrice cursed, despicable human scum, worse than a pig-dog traitor.
But I am more familiar with the Chinese running-dog insult, though a Chinese colleague says it is in fact just dog.0 -
Mr. Smithson, Johnson's got the common touch and he's very likeable. He also properly screwed up the GP renegotiation, which involved them getting more money for less work, failed at being Shadow Chancellor and (I believe) is on record saying he wouldn't be up to the job of PM.
However, he would be one of Labour's best options.0 -
The winner in Thurrock probably won't get more than 30%.0
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Danny Alexander's chances were slim, now they're non existent.0
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another_richard said:
If this is true then Osborne is exposed as a liar:
Jacek DOMINIK
Commissioner for Financial Programming and Budget
Jacek Dominik's statement on the revision of member states' gross national income (GNI)
Press conference
Brussels, 27 October 2014
"Let me point out in this respect that the UK will benefit from the UK rebate for the additional payments in 2014."
http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_SPEECH-14-723_en.htm
On this subject can anyone provide an example when UK-EU financial transactions were deemed to have no effect on the UK Rebate ?
Apparently he didn't actually say that in his spoken statement. There is a "[Check Against Delivery]" phrase at the top - what he said takes precedence over the press release.
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OT - My feeling is that Salmond could be heading for another humiliation - Inverness is not Glasgow and I do not see many Labour/Con votes moving to the SNP on this in the numbers necessary.0
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Well, Dave thought he would be "rather good at it" and look how that's turned out.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Smithson, Johnson's got the common touch and he's very likeable. He also properly screwed up the GP renegotiation, which involved them getting more money for less work, failed at being Shadow Chancellor and (I believe) is on record saying he wouldn't be up to the job of PM.
However, he would be one of Labour's best options.
And Attlee was said to be a modest man.0 -
Now if Cameron and Osborne had been sensible they would have taken the moral high ground and said something like:
"The UK is an honourable country and will always meet its international commitments no matter how painful they can sometimes be. We chose to do this because it is the right thing to do and we cannot ask other people to respect the law if we are unwilling to do so ourselves. Because of the failings of the previous Labour government this country has been presented with a new EU funding requirement. We will pay this new EU funding but we will seek a longer period of payment and a change in EU regulations so that this cannot happen again."
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Yeah, but like David Miliband, Alan Johnson lacks the cojones to mount leadership coups.MikeSmithson said:
Dream on. The invigorated Alan Johnson-led LAB party will highlight the Cameron team's big weakness - they don't represent "people like us". Johnson used to be the deliver the mail at Chequers.TheScreamingEagles said:
Yup, my own big prediction for next year.MikeSmithson said:
There could be some interesting betting markets like how many sub-30% winners will there beTheScreamingEagles said:I've said there'll be loads of 1992 kinda results next year.
Interesting that Salmond took your advice and decided not to stand in Gordon
UNS is going to look really silly.
Like Bananaman, he expects it to be delivered to him on a plate
If either of them had Ed's cojones, they would be leader right now.0 -
Victoria Prentis selected for the Tories in Banbury to replace Sir Tony Baldry.0
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In view of how few Labour party conferences between now and the election I would have though Johnson's biggest problem is that he isn't Hattie Harman.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Smithson, Johnson's got the common touch and he's very likeable. He also properly screwed up the GP renegotiation, which involved them getting more money for less work, failed at being Shadow Chancellor and (I believe) is on record saying he wouldn't be up to the job of PM.
However, he would be one of Labour's best options.
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No he isn't. You are missing the point - everyone including the Balls, Farage, etc missed this point because it is completely unclear what any rebate might be. 50% is a very tidy amount of the original total of 1.7B. which no-one predicted the other week. If they had you might have a point. you also ignore the delay in the payment and the removal of the threat to charge interest. You are allowing your hatred of Osborne to cloud your judgement.another_richard said:If this is true then Osborne is exposed as a liar:
Jacek DOMINIK
Commissioner for Financial Programming and Budget
Jacek Dominik's statement on the revision of member states' gross national income (GNI)
Press conference
Brussels, 27 October 2014
"Let me point out in this respect that the UK will benefit from the UK rebate for the additional payments in 2014."
http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_SPEECH-14-723_en.htm
On this subject can anyone provide an example when UK-EU financial transactions were deemed to have no effect on the UK Rebate ?0 -
TSE, your English spectacles are unforgivable, stop unjustly criticizing St Nigel.0
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The Chinese and North Koreans have best insults in the world.Ninoinoz said:
I bow to your superior knowledge, TSE.TheScreamingEagles said:FPT - Pig-dog traitor became common usage after North Korean used it.
I think the correct phrase was, the thrice cursed, despicable human scum, worse than a pig-dog traitor.
But I am more familiar with the Chinese running-dog insult, though a Chinese colleague says it is in fact just dog.
I think they look at an English Dictionary/Thesaurus and pick out random words.
When Lord Patten was Governor of Hong Kong, some of the Chinese insults were brilliant.
They called him a tango dancer, which makes you think WTF, but in Chinese idioms, Tango Dancer is synonymous with prostitutes.
They also called him "a whore" and "guilty for a thousand years".
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/194682.stm0 -
Eeeeuuuuwww - the idea of the Miliband cojones is not pleasant just before tea.TheScreamingEagles said:
Yeah, but like David Miliband, Alan Johnson lacks the cojones to mount leadership coups.MikeSmithson said:
Dream on. The invigorated Alan Johnson-led LAB party will highlight the Cameron team's big weakness - they don't represent "people like us". Johnson used to be the deliver the mail at Chequers.TheScreamingEagles said:
Yup, my own big prediction for next year.MikeSmithson said:
There could be some interesting betting markets like how many sub-30% winners will there beTheScreamingEagles said:I've said there'll be loads of 1992 kinda results next year.
Interesting that Salmond took your advice and decided not to stand in Gordon
UNS is going to look really silly.
Like Bananaman, he expects it to be delivered to him on a plate
If either of them had Ed's cojones, they would be leader right now.0 -
You have got to be joking!Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Smithson, Johnson's got the common touch and he's very likeable. He also properly screwed up the GP renegotiation, which involved them getting more money for less work, failed at being Shadow Chancellor and (I believe) is on record saying he wouldn't be up to the job of PM.
However, he would be one of Labour's best options.
As Education Secretary he led the attack on Faith Schools. That would kiss goodbye to a whole host of seats in Scotland, NW England plus countless seats elsewhere.0 -
Mr. Eagles, some of the language in Outlaws of the Marsh and Three Kingdoms (two Chinese classics) is wonderfully flowery or alien to Western eyes.0
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Of the last 6 Tory selections in Conservative-held seats, 5 non-{white men} and 1 white man — Matt Warman — have been chosen to replace 6 white men.
Victoria Prentis [Tony Baldry]: Banbury
Johanna Churchill [David Ruffley]: Bury St Edmunds
Alan Mak [David Willetts]: Havant
Matt Warman [Mark Simmonds]: Boston & Skegness
Rishi Sunak [William Hague]: Richmond (YORKS)
Heidi Allen [Andrew Lansley]: Cambridgeshire South0 -
Agreed - but it is a part of the world where I suspect incumbency is likely to be a stronger factor than in most of the UK. He might attract some Tory votes too. I'm unsure how popular Salmond is in that area.Speedy said:
The key there is former LD voters.felix said:OT - My feeling is that Salmond could be heading for another humiliation - Inverness is not Glasgow and I do not see many Labour/Con votes moving to the SNP on this in the numbers necessary.
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Rules of thumb should never say 'never' or 'always'.Quincel said:Another good example of rules of thumb contradicting each other:
1. Decapitation attempts never work
2. The Lib Dems are beyond saving
I suspect #2 will be victorious in this case.
Explicit decapitation strategies are a poor idea as they're too much of an insiders' game and tend to look bad to local electors. I'm not convinced that someone like Salmond coming to Alexander's constituency to take him on would be well-received. He may still win but I'd be surprised if a local SNP candidate wouldn't do better.0 -
I'm no lawyer or expert in the odd ways of the EU but I would have thought the written document would have been the official one.MarkHopkins said:another_richard said:If this is true then Osborne is exposed as a liar:
Jacek DOMINIK
Commissioner for Financial Programming and Budget
Jacek Dominik's statement on the revision of member states' gross national income (GNI)
Press conference
Brussels, 27 October 2014
"Let me point out in this respect that the UK will benefit from the UK rebate for the additional payments in 2014."
http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_SPEECH-14-723_en.htm
On this subject can anyone provide an example when UK-EU financial transactions were deemed to have no effect on the UK Rebate ?
Apparently he didn't actually say that in his spoken statement. There is a "[Check Against Delivery]" phrase at the top - what he said takes precedence over the press release.
The phrase 'have you got that in writing' comes to mind.
And how much difference is there normally between EU spoken press releases and EU written press releases ?
In any case did he say the Rebate wouldn't apply in his spoken statement or not mention the issue at all ?
If its the former then Osborne may have a case, if its the latter then he doesn't.
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felix said:
No he isn't. You are missing the point - everyone including the Balls, Farage, etc missed this point because it is completely unclear what any rebate might be. 50% is a very tidy amount of the original total of 1.7B. which no-one predicted the other week. If they had you might have a point. you also ignore the delay in the payment and the removal of the threat to charge interest. You are allowing your hatred of Osborne to cloud your judgement.another_richard said:If this is true then Osborne is exposed as a liar:
Jacek DOMINIK
Commissioner for Financial Programming and Budget
Jacek Dominik's statement on the revision of member states' gross national income (GNI)
Press conference
Brussels, 27 October 2014
"Let me point out in this respect that the UK will benefit from the UK rebate for the additional payments in 2014."
http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_SPEECH-14-723_en.htm
On this subject can anyone provide an example when UK-EU financial transactions were deemed to have no effect on the UK Rebate ?
Felix, your argument will be considerably enhanced if you can tell us which country or countries will be picking up the tab for the 850,000 which the UK is no longer paying.
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I fear you may be wrong about that.Ninoinoz said:
You have got to be joking!Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Smithson, Johnson's got the common touch and he's very likeable. He also properly screwed up the GP renegotiation, which involved them getting more money for less work, failed at being Shadow Chancellor and (I believe) is on record saying he wouldn't be up to the job of PM.
However, he would be one of Labour's best options.
As Education Secretary he led the attack on Faith Schools. That would kiss goodbye to a whole host of seats in Scotland, NW England plus countless seats elsewhere.
Sadly, though, he will not stand. Labour is stuck with Ed.
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I used to praise him when he was good.corporeal said:TSE, your English spectacles are unforgivable, stop unjustly criticizing St Nigel.
But now, he sucks more than a hooker that swallowed a Dyson0 -
It is worth noting that the Independent has a different take on what's going on:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/alex-salmond-plots-westminster-return-9847856.html
"It has been speculated that Mr Salmond could stand in Glasgow, where SNP support is growing rapidly, or in Inverness, Nairn, Badenoch and Strathspey, where the SNP is tipped to oust the Lib Dem Cabinet minister Danny Alexander.
But a source close to Mr Salmond said: “He is still contemplating whether to return to Westminster or not. But if he does so, he wants to represent an area where he sat both as an MP and an MSP.”
Mr Salmond hinted at his intentions last month during a speech in his Holyrood constituency. He said: “I’ll always represent the north-east of Scotland.
“I made that clear when I stood down as first minister, I wasn’t giving up on politics. I’ve represented this village as an MP and an MSP.
“This is part of my Scottish Parliamentary constituency, it was part of my Westminster constituency. I’ll always represent the north-east of Scotland.” "0 -
If you don't want a job it's silly to apply for it.TheScreamingEagles said:
Yeah, but like David Miliband, Alan Johnson lacks the cojones to mount leadership coups.MikeSmithson said:
Dream on. The invigorated Alan Johnson-led LAB party will highlight the Cameron team's big weakness - they don't represent "people like us". Johnson used to be the deliver the mail at Chequers.TheScreamingEagles said:
Yup, my own big prediction for next year.MikeSmithson said:
There could be some interesting betting markets like how many sub-30% winners will there beTheScreamingEagles said:I've said there'll be loads of 1992 kinda results next year.
Interesting that Salmond took your advice and decided not to stand in Gordon
UNS is going to look really silly.
Like Bananaman, he expects it to be delivered to him on a plate
If either of them had Ed's cojones, they would be leader right now.
0 -
I wouldn't take less than 100/1 for Johnson to lead Labour into the next election. It's probably about 20/1 that it won't be Miliband.MikeSmithson said:
Dream on. The invigorated Alan Johnson-led LAB party will highlight the Cameron team's big weakness - they don't represent "people like us". Johnson used to be the deliver the mail at Chequers.TheScreamingEagles said:
Yup, my own big prediction for next year.MikeSmithson said:
There could be some interesting betting markets like how many sub-30% winners will there beTheScreamingEagles said:I've said there'll be loads of 1992 kinda results next year.
Interesting that Salmond took your advice and decided not to stand in Gordon
UNS is going to look really silly.
Johnson was essentially humiliated into giving up the Shadow Chancellorship due to not knowing the detail of NI rates. You can be sure that were he to become LotO, he'd face a great deal more detailed questioning of that nature.0 -
Even more evidence against you if you demean the value of a good hooker.TheScreamingEagles said:
I used to praise him when he was good.corporeal said:TSE, your English spectacles are unforgivable, stop unjustly criticizing St Nigel.
But now, he sucks more than a hooker that swallowed a Dyson0 -
UKIP should do well in Banbury itself. Bicester, of course, is one of the most prosperous towns in the country, so the Tories should continue to pile up the votes there.Speedy said:
A very safe Tory seat and one of the few I expect to remain a Tory safe seat after May.AndyJS said:Victoria Prentis selected for the Tories in Banbury to replace Sir Tony Baldry.
Victoria Prentis's website:
http://www.victoriaprentis.co.uk/0 -
another_richard said:
I'm no lawyer or expert in the odd ways of the EU but I would have thought the written document would have been the official one.MarkHopkins said:another_richard said:If this is true then Osborne is exposed as a liar:
Jacek DOMINIK
Commissioner for Financial Programming and Budget
Jacek Dominik's statement on the revision of member states' gross national income (GNI)
Press conference
Brussels, 27 October 2014
"Let me point out in this respect that the UK will benefit from the UK rebate for the additional payments in 2014."
http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_SPEECH-14-723_en.htm
On this subject can anyone provide an example when UK-EU financial transactions were deemed to have no effect on the UK Rebate ?
Apparently he didn't actually say that in his spoken statement. There is a "[Check Against Delivery]" phrase at the top - what he said takes precedence over the press release.
The phrase 'have you got that in writing' comes to mind.
And how much difference is there normally between EU spoken press releases and EU written press releases ?
In any case did he say the Rebate wouldn't apply in his spoken statement or not mention the issue at all ?
If its the former then Osborne may have a case, if its the latter then he doesn't.
This is Wiki's take on it....
Sometimes, the first page of a transcript will have the words "Check Against Delivery" stamped across it, which means that the transcript is not the legal representation of the speech, but rather only the audio delivery is regarded as the official record. This is better explained in the French version of the message – Seul le texte prononcé fait foi, literally "Only the spoken text is faithful".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transcript_(law)
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That Balls and Farage didn't look into the details is their problem.felix said:
No he isn't. You are missing the point - everyone including the Balls, Farage, etc missed this point because it is completely unclear what any rebate might be. 50% is a very tidy amount of the original total of 1.7B. which no-one predicted the other week. If they had you might have a point. you also ignore the delay in the payment and the removal of the threat to charge interest. You are allowing your hatred of Osborne to cloud your judgement.another_richard said:If this is true then Osborne is exposed as a liar:
Jacek DOMINIK
Commissioner for Financial Programming and Budget
Jacek Dominik's statement on the revision of member states' gross national income (GNI)
Press conference
Brussels, 27 October 2014
"Let me point out in this respect that the UK will benefit from the UK rebate for the additional payments in 2014."
http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_SPEECH-14-723_en.htm
On this subject can anyone provide an example when UK-EU financial transactions were deemed to have no effect on the UK Rebate ?
That Osborne is claiming to have reduced it by half when he hasn't is his problem.
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Are you SeanT in disguise?corporeal said:
Even more evidence against you if you demean the value of a good hooker.TheScreamingEagles said:
I used to praise him when he was good.corporeal said:TSE, your English spectacles are unforgivable, stop unjustly criticizing St Nigel.
But now, he sucks more than a hooker that swallowed a Dyson0 -
To be fair, though, Dave did not understand Lansley's health reforms or seem to realise that his government had signed off on the new EU accounting regime. Maybe you don't need to be as switched on if you are the leader.david_herdson said:
I wouldn't take less than 100/1 for Johnson to lead Labour into the next election. It's probably about 20/1 that it won't be Miliband.MikeSmithson said:
Dream on. The invigorated Alan Johnson-led LAB party will highlight the Cameron team's big weakness - they don't represent "people like us". Johnson used to be the deliver the mail at Chequers.TheScreamingEagles said:
Yup, my own big prediction for next year.MikeSmithson said:
There could be some interesting betting markets like how many sub-30% winners will there beTheScreamingEagles said:I've said there'll be loads of 1992 kinda results next year.
Interesting that Salmond took your advice and decided not to stand in Gordon
UNS is going to look really silly.
Johnson was essentially humiliated into giving up the Shadow Chancellorship due to not knowing the detail of NI rates. You can be sure that were he to become LotO, he'd face a great deal more detailed questioning of that nature.
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As a Welshman are first thought is always in rugby terms of course.OldKingCole said:
Are you SeanT in disguise?corporeal said:
Even more evidence against you if you demean the value of a good hooker.TheScreamingEagles said:
I used to praise him when he was good.corporeal said:TSE, your English spectacles are unforgivable, stop unjustly criticizing St Nigel.
But now, he sucks more than a hooker that swallowed a Dyson0 -
So an official spokesman can say any load of bollox and that becomes the official line ? What an interesting organisation.MarkHopkins said:another_richard said:
I'm no lawyer or expert in the odd ways of the EU but I would have thought the written document would have been the official one.MarkHopkins said:another_richard said:If this is true then Osborne is exposed as a liar:
Jacek DOMINIK
Commissioner for Financial Programming and Budget
Jacek Dominik's statement on the revision of member states' gross national income (GNI)
Press conference
Brussels, 27 October 2014
"Let me point out in this respect that the UK will benefit from the UK rebate for the additional payments in 2014."
http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_SPEECH-14-723_en.htm
On this subject can anyone provide an example when UK-EU financial transactions were deemed to have no effect on the UK Rebate ?
Apparently he didn't actually say that in his spoken statement. There is a "[Check Against Delivery]" phrase at the top - what he said takes precedence over the press release.
The phrase 'have you got that in writing' comes to mind.
And how much difference is there normally between EU spoken press releases and EU written press releases ?
In any case did he say the Rebate wouldn't apply in his spoken statement or not mention the issue at all ?
If its the former then Osborne may have a case, if its the latter then he doesn't.
This is Wiki's take on it....
Sometimes, the first page of a transcript will have the words "Check Against Delivery" stamped across it, which means that the transcript is not the legal representation of the speech, but rather only the audio delivery is regarded as the official record. This is better explained in the French version of the message – Seul le texte prononcé fait foi, literally "Only the spoken text is faithful".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transcript_(law)
Now what did he say in the spoken statement.
If he said that the Rebate wouldn't apply then Osborne may have a case.
If he didn't then Osborne doesn't.
And if we don't have the spoken statement available then we have to assume the written document is correct.
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The thinking might be that with non-white non-men candidates the Tories would have a better chance of holding their vote especially against UKIP.AndyJS said:Of the last 6 Tory selections in Conservative-held seats, 5 non-{white men} and 1 white man — Matt Warman — have been chosen to replace 6 white men.
Victoria Prentis [Tony Baldry]: Banbury
Johanna Churchill [David Ruffley]: Bury St Edmunds
Alan Mak [David Willetts]: Havant
Matt Warman [Mark Simmonds]: Boston & Skegness
Rishi Sunak [William Hague]: Richmond (YORKS)
Heidi Allen [Andrew Lansley]: Cambridgeshire South0 -
another_richard said:
So an official spokesman can say any load of bollox and that becomes the official line ? What an interesting organisation.MarkHopkins said:another_richard said:
I'm no lawyer or expert in the odd ways of the EU but I would have thought the written document would have been the official one.MarkHopkins said:another_richard said:If this is true then Osborne is exposed as a liar:
Jacek DOMINIK
Commissioner for Financial Programming and Budget
Jacek Dominik's statement on the revision of member states' gross national income (GNI)
Press conference
Brussels, 27 October 2014
"Let me point out in this respect that the UK will benefit from the UK rebate for the additional payments in 2014."
http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_SPEECH-14-723_en.htm
On this subject can anyone provide an example when UK-EU financial transactions were deemed to have no effect on the UK Rebate ?
Apparently he didn't actually say that in his spoken statement. There is a "[Check Against Delivery]" phrase at the top - what he said takes precedence over the press release.
The phrase 'have you got that in writing' comes to mind.
And how much difference is there normally between EU spoken press releases and EU written press releases ?
In any case did he say the Rebate wouldn't apply in his spoken statement or not mention the issue at all ?
If its the former then Osborne may have a case, if its the latter then he doesn't.
This is Wiki's take on it....
Sometimes, the first page of a transcript will have the words "Check Against Delivery" stamped across it, which means that the transcript is not the legal representation of the speech, but rather only the audio delivery is regarded as the official record. This is better explained in the French version of the message – Seul le texte prononcé fait foi, literally "Only the spoken text is faithful".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transcript_(law)
Now what did he say in the spoken statement.
If he said that the Rebate wouldn't apply then Osborne may have a case.
If he didn't then Osborne doesn't.
And if we don't have the spoken statement available then we have to assume the written document is correct.
LIVE EC Midday press briefing of 27/10/2014
http://ec.europa.eu/avservices/video/player.cfm?sitelang=en&ref=I094616
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Even then he still doesn't have a case. This wasn't a special payment, it was the recalculation of the normal annual payment, as previously agreed between Finance Ministers, after additional information received. We have always received a rebate on such payments since the 1984 hand-bagging. What was or wasn't said in this speech doesn't affect that one jot. Frazer Nelson covers it very succinctly.another_richard said:If its the former then Osborne may have a case, if its the latter then he doesn't.
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2014/11/why-did-george-osborne-spoil-a-genuine-victory-with-spin/
"You don’t need to be an expert on EU law to know the difference between an automatic discount and a negotiated discount. Would anyone step out of a Next new year sale and claim to have negotiated a 50pc discount on a suit? And expect their mates to take them seriously? It’s the same principle."
"So the Chancellor is right to say that there was confusion, not least on the part of the Prime Minister who seemed blindsided by by the £1.7bn bill even though Treasury officials knew for weeks that it was coming. But Osborne was given clarification on the amount yesterday, which is different to any negotiation. He ought not to have conflated the two."
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He wasn't Educn Sec in Scotland was he? Schools are devolved ... so some of that disadvantage can be discounted, presumably.Ninoinoz said:
You have got to be joking!Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Smithson, Johnson's got the common touch and he's very likeable. He also properly screwed up the GP renegotiation, which involved them getting more money for less work, failed at being Shadow Chancellor and (I believe) is on record saying he wouldn't be up to the job of PM.
However, he would be one of Labour's best options.
As Education Secretary he led the attack on Faith Schools. That would kiss goodbye to a whole host of seats in Scotland, NW England plus countless seats elsewhere.
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I'm sure Alan Johnson would be a good man to have as a neighbour or have a drink with in a pub.david_herdson said:
I wouldn't take less than 100/1 for Johnson to lead Labour into the next election. It's probably about 20/1 that it won't be Miliband.MikeSmithson said:
Dream on. The invigorated Alan Johnson-led LAB party will highlight the Cameron team's big weakness - they don't represent "people like us". Johnson used to be the deliver the mail at Chequers.TheScreamingEagles said:
Yup, my own big prediction for next year.MikeSmithson said:
There could be some interesting betting markets like how many sub-30% winners will there beTheScreamingEagles said:I've said there'll be loads of 1992 kinda results next year.
Interesting that Salmond took your advice and decided not to stand in Gordon
UNS is going to look really silly.
Johnson was essentially humiliated into giving up the Shadow Chancellorship due to not knowing the detail of NI rates. You can be sure that were he to become LotO, he'd face a great deal more detailed questioning of that nature.
He has the right background story but appears out of his depth in every political position he has held. IIRC he was Environment Secretary at the time of the Yorkshire floods of 2007 and his performance was extremely lacking - Caroline Flint was far more impressive.
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Thanks for spotting that. My gut feeling is the DM is trying to cause trouble by claiming that Mr S will do X and then claiming he is feart when he does Y which he was considering as an option.antifrank said:It is worth noting that the Independent has a different take on what's going on:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/alex-salmond-plots-westminster-return-9847856.html
"It has been speculated that Mr Salmond could stand in Glasgow, where SNP support is growing rapidly, or in Inverness, Nairn, Badenoch and Strathspey, where the SNP is tipped to oust the Lib Dem Cabinet minister Danny Alexander.
But a source close to Mr Salmond said: “He is still contemplating whether to return to Westminster or not. But if he does so, he wants to represent an area where he sat both as an MP and an MSP.”
Mr Salmond hinted at his intentions last month during a speech in his Holyrood constituency. He said: “I’ll always represent the north-east of Scotland.
“I made that clear when I stood down as first minister, I wasn’t giving up on politics. I’ve represented this village as an MP and an MSP.
“This is part of my Scottish Parliamentary constituency, it was part of my Westminster constituency. I’ll always represent the north-east of Scotland.” "
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As I've pointed out several times before, the key to this election is the fate of the Liberal Democrats. Gordon could well now go Conservative with the Liberal incumbent retiring. (Tories ran the SNP a close third) . Tactical Libdem vote unwinding, and Tactical anti tory SNP voting unwinding in the aftermath of the referendum and the improvement of tory performance in Scotland could deliver as slew of Scottish seats to the tories.
Conservatives were second to Libdems or SNP - and, importantly, many thousand votes ahead of the third place candidate, in the following six Scottish seats:
Angus; Berwickshire, Roxburgh and Selkirk; Banff and Buchann; Moray; Perth and North Perthshire; West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine.
There are also 28 English & Welsh eats won by the Libdems in 2010, that were Tory before 1997 (or at least after the 1992 general election), in many cases safe Tory and there is no other feasible condender (perhaps UKIP apart):
Solihull, Dorset Mid and Poole North, Wells, St Austell & Newquay, Somerton and Frome, Sutton and Cheam, St Ives, Chippenham, Cheadle, Eastbourne, Taunton Deane, Eastleigh
Torbay, Brecon and Radnorshire, Carshalton and Wallington, Portsmouth South, Kingston and Surbiton, Cambridge, Southport, Thornbury and Yate, Colchester, Hazel Grove, Lewes
Twickenham, Leeds North West, Norfolk North, Westmoreland and Lonsdale &
Sheffield Hallam
If the tories won these 34 seats in 2015 and held their original 307 seats won in 2010 they would have 341 seats.
Majority of 32.
Real majority would be 37 due to Sinn Fein and Squeaker not voting
Majority where DUP abstain 45
Majority where DUP vote with tories 53
If there is Libdem carnage, Labour could win ten tory marginals and there would still be a reasonble Tory majority.
If there is Libdem total carnage, Labour could win twenty Tory marginals and the Tories would still have a majority of one, after SF and Squeaker abstensions and rule with DUP supply and confidence.
Therefore this 2015 election hinges first and foremost on the ability of individual Libdem MPs to massively outpoll the Libdem national voteshare. If they don't its a Tory win - provided they don't lose too many seats to UKIP.
The place to be doing constituency polls is seats like Yeovil and Bath.
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No-one really understood Lansley's reforms, so he was never going to get forensic questioning. Cameron is also quite adept at side-stepping specific questions. The problem that Johnson has were he to come back as leader is that both the media and opposition know that weak spot and would seek to exploit it.SouthamObserver said:
To be fair, though, Dave did not understand Lansley's health reforms or seem to realise that his government had signed off on the new EU accounting regime. Maybe you don't need to be as switched on if you are the leader.david_herdson said:
I wouldn't take less than 100/1 for Johnson to lead Labour into the next election. It's probably about 20/1 that it won't be Miliband.MikeSmithson said:
Dream on. The invigorated Alan Johnson-led LAB party will highlight the Cameron team's big weakness - they don't represent "people like us". Johnson used to be the deliver the mail at Chequers.TheScreamingEagles said:
Yup, my own big prediction for next year.MikeSmithson said:
There could be some interesting betting markets like how many sub-30% winners will there beTheScreamingEagles said:I've said there'll be loads of 1992 kinda results next year.
Interesting that Salmond took your advice and decided not to stand in Gordon
UNS is going to look really silly.
Johnson was essentially humiliated into giving up the Shadow Chancellorship due to not knowing the detail of NI rates. You can be sure that were he to become LotO, he'd face a great deal more detailed questioning of that nature.0 -
Now it can be revealed.Carnyx said:
He wasn't Educn Sec in Scotland was he? Schools are devolved ... so some of that disadvantage can be discounted, presumably.Ninoinoz said:
You have got to be joking!Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Smithson, Johnson's got the common touch and he's very likeable. He also properly screwed up the GP renegotiation, which involved them getting more money for less work, failed at being Shadow Chancellor and (I believe) is on record saying he wouldn't be up to the job of PM.
However, he would be one of Labour's best options.
As Education Secretary he led the attack on Faith Schools. That would kiss goodbye to a whole host of seats in Scotland, NW England plus countless seats elsewhere.
The reason I wanted Scotland to remain within the Union was precisely because Scottish Catholic MPs got the measure in 2006 overturned.
In fact, I wonder if the abandonment of Catholics by the Labour Party isn't a major reason for their collapse in Scotland. Perhaps Murphy can reverse that.
Traditionally, Scottish Nationalist surges have been blunted when they've had to move into Catholic areas. No longer, it seems.
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/damian-thompson/2014/09/the-scottish-catholic-bishops-and-the-nationalists-a-scandal-is-coming-to-light/0 -
This is truly hilarious;
http://nottingham.tab.co.uk/2014/11/06/lefties-campaign-to-keep-notts-ukip-free/
"A Left-wing strategy meeting called “Keep Notts UKIP Free” at the University of Nottingham descended into hilarious chaos when UKIP turned up to argue back.
They attacked UKIP for being “extreme racists”, “idiots” and “something from 1930s Germany”.
Shreya Paudel said that UKIP “don’t stand for black or brown people” in society and Ruth Smeeth declared that UKIP are “exclusively made up of white men”.
The anger in the room was real but the debate from most people really focussed on “the bankers and the bonuses”, a “crisis in Capitalism” and rather surreally gender neutral toilets.
One notable speech featured a woman who proudly stood up and declared “I am a Lesbian and a Communist”. This was met by rapturous applause from the audience while she continued to spout about the occupy movement.
The UKIPers however could take no more of what the angry room had to say."0 -
I doubt that would get much traction over a short period of time. But it's all academic anyway.david_herdson said:
No-one really understood Lansley's reforms, so he was never going to get forensic questioning. Cameron is also quite adept at side-stepping specific questions. The problem that Johnson has were he to come back as leader is that both the media and opposition know that weak spot and would seek to exploit it.SouthamObserver said:
To be fair, though, Dave did not understand Lansley's health reforms or seem to realise that his government had signed off on the new EU accounting regime. Maybe you don't need to be as switched on if you are the leader.david_herdson said:
I wouldn't take less than 100/1 for Johnson to lead Labour into the next election. It's probably about 20/1 that it won't be Miliband.MikeSmithson said:
Dream on. The invigorated Alan Johnson-led LAB party will highlight the Cameron team's big weakness - they don't represent "people like us". Johnson used to be the deliver the mail at Chequers.TheScreamingEagles said:
Yup, my own big prediction for next year.MikeSmithson said:
There could be some interesting betting markets like how many sub-30% winners will there beTheScreamingEagles said:I've said there'll be loads of 1992 kinda results next year.
Interesting that Salmond took your advice and decided not to stand in Gordon
UNS is going to look really silly.
Johnson was essentially humiliated into giving up the Shadow Chancellorship due to not knowing the detail of NI rates. You can be sure that were he to become LotO, he'd face a great deal more detailed questioning of that nature.
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Johnson was the sec of state for health who had not got his eye on the ball. He signed off Mid-Staffs for Foundation status at the height of the troubles there. Nice guy but better suited to the post room than the front room at number 10!another_richard said:
I'm sure Alan Johnson would be a good man to have as a neighbour or have a drink with in a pub.david_herdson said:
I wouldn't take less than 100/1 for Johnson to lead Labour into the next election. It's probably about 20/1 that it won't be Miliband.MikeSmithson said:
Dream on. The invigorated Alan Johnson-led LAB party will highlight the Cameron team's big weakness - they don't represent "people like us". Johnson used to be the deliver the mail at Chequers.TheScreamingEagles said:
Yup, my own big prediction for next year.MikeSmithson said:
There could be some interesting betting markets like how many sub-30% winners will there beTheScreamingEagles said:I've said there'll be loads of 1992 kinda results next year.
Interesting that Salmond took your advice and decided not to stand in Gordon
UNS is going to look really silly.
Johnson was essentially humiliated into giving up the Shadow Chancellorship due to not knowing the detail of NI rates. You can be sure that were he to become LotO, he'd face a great deal more detailed questioning of that nature.
He has the right background story but appears out of his depth in every political position he has held. IIRC he was Environment Secretary at the time of the Yorkshire floods of 2007 and his performance was extremely lacking - Caroline Flint was far more impressive.0 -
corporeal said:
As a Welshman are first thought is always in rugby terms of course.OldKingCole said:
Are you SeanT in disguise?corporeal said:
Even more evidence against you if you demean the value of a good hooker.TheScreamingEagles said:
I used to praise him when he was good.corporeal said:TSE, your English spectacles are unforgivable, stop unjustly criticizing St Nigel.
But now, he sucks more than a hooker that swallowed a Dyson
Touché! Quite a scrap against the Convicts isn't it!0 -
Speculated? By whom?antifrank said:It is worth noting that the Independent has a different take on what's going on:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/alex-salmond-plots-westminster-return-9847856.html
"It has been speculated that Mr Salmond could stand in Glasgow,
Which source? Are they reliable?
"But a source close to Mr Salmond said: “ "
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weasel_word
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Which source? Are they reliable?Sunil_Prasannan said:
Speculated? By whom?antifrank said:It is worth noting that the Independent has a different take on what's going on:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/alex-salmond-plots-westminster-return-9847856.html
"It has been speculated that Mr Salmond could stand in Glasgow,
"But a source close to Mr Salmond said: “ "
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weasel_word
So far, Superman is standing in West Aberdeenshire, Inverness and Glasgow.0 -
That's almost exactly how I imagine Dirty Dicks to be in about a fortnight!Speedy said:This is truly hilarious;
http://nottingham.tab.co.uk/2014/11/06/lefties-campaign-to-keep-notts-ukip-free/
"A Left-wing strategy meeting called “Keep Notts UKIP Free” at the University of Nottingham descended into hilarious chaos when UKIP turned up to argue back.
They attacked UKIP for being “extreme racists”, “idiots” and “something from 1930s Germany”.
Shreya Paudel said that UKIP “don’t stand for black or brown people” in society and Ruth Smeeth declared that UKIP are “exclusively made up of white men”.
The anger in the room was real but the debate from most people really focussed on “the bankers and the bonuses”, a “crisis in Capitalism” and rather surreally gender neutral toilets.
One notable speech featured a woman who proudly stood up and declared “I am a Lesbian and a Communist”. This was met by rapturous applause from the audience while she continued to spout about the occupy movement.
The UKIPers however could take no more of what the angry room had to say."0 -
What are you smoking ?Paul_Mid_Beds said:As I've pointed out several times before, the key to this election is the fate of the Liberal Democrats. Gordon could well now go Conservative with the Liberal incumbent retiring. (Tories ran the SNP a close third) . Tactical Libdem vote unwinding, and Tactical anti tory SNP voting unwinding in the aftermath of the referendum and the improvement of tory performance in Scotland could deliver as slew of Scottish seats to the tories.
Conservatives were second to Libdems or SNP - and, importantly, many thousand votes ahead of the third place candidate, in the following six Scottish seats:
Angus; Berwickshire, Roxburgh and Selkirk; Banff and Buchann; Moray; Perth and North Perthshire; West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine.
There are also 28 English & Welsh eats won by the Libdems in 2010, that were Tory before 1997 (or at least after the 1992 general election), in many cases safe Tory and there is no other feasible condender (perhaps UKIP apart):
Solihull, Dorset Mid and Poole North, Wells, St Austell & Newquay, Somerton and Frome, Sutton and Cheam, St Ives, Chippenham, Cheadle, Eastbourne, Taunton Deane, Eastleigh
Torbay, Brecon and Radnorshire, Carshalton and Wallington, Portsmouth South, Kingston and Surbiton, Cambridge, Southport, Thornbury and Yate, Colchester, Hazel Grove, Lewes
Twickenham, Leeds North West, Norfolk North, Westmoreland and Lonsdale &
Sheffield Hallam
If the tories won these 34 seats in 2015 and held their original 307 seats won in 2010 they would have 341 seats.
Majority of 32.
Real majority would be 37 due to Sinn Fein and Squeaker not voting
Majority where DUP abstain 45
Majority where DUP vote with tories 53
If there is Libdem carnage, Labour could win ten tory marginals and there would still be a reasonble Tory majority.
If there is Libdem total carnage, Labour could win twenty Tory marginals and the Tories would still have a majority of one, after SF and Squeaker abstensions and rule with DUP supply and confidence.
Therefore this 2015 election hinges first and foremost on the ability of individual Libdem MPs to massively outpoll the Libdem national voteshare. If they don't its a Tory win - provided they don't lose too many seats to UKIP.
The place to be doing constituency polls is seats like Yeovil and Bath.0 -
If its that good, I might turn up. In reality, I think everyone will be a bit more mature than that.isam said:
That's almost exactly how I imagine Dirty Dicks to be in about a fortnight!Speedy said:This is truly hilarious;
http://nottingham.tab.co.uk/2014/11/06/lefties-campaign-to-keep-notts-ukip-free/
"A Left-wing strategy meeting called “Keep Notts UKIP Free” at the University of Nottingham descended into hilarious chaos when UKIP turned up to argue back.
They attacked UKIP for being “extreme racists”, “idiots” and “something from 1930s Germany”.
Shreya Paudel said that UKIP “don’t stand for black or brown people” in society and Ruth Smeeth declared that UKIP are “exclusively made up of white men”.
The anger in the room was real but the debate from most people really focussed on “the bankers and the bonuses”, a “crisis in Capitalism” and rather surreally gender neutral toilets.
One notable speech featured a woman who proudly stood up and declared “I am a Lesbian and a Communist”. This was met by rapturous applause from the audience while she continued to spout about the occupy movement.
The UKIPers however could take no more of what the angry room had to say."
Student Union political rumpuses are enormous fun, especially when they start impacting the outside world. The goings on in Salford Uni student union in the run up to the 1992 election were hilarious - unless you were involved.0 -
Lqabour ought to perhaps consider why the Scottish bishops went off them.Ninoinoz said:
Now it can be revealed.Carnyx said:
He wasn't Educn Sec in Scotland was he? Schools are devolved ... so some of that disadvantage can be discounted, presumably.Ninoinoz said:
You have got to be joking!Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Smithson, Johnson's got the common touch and he's very likeable. He also properly screwed up the GP renegotiation, which involved them getting more money for less work, failed at being Shadow Chancellor and (I believe) is on record saying he wouldn't be up to the job of PM.
However, he would be one of Labour's best options.
As Education Secretary he led the attack on Faith Schools. That would kiss goodbye to a whole host of seats in Scotland, NW England plus countless seats elsewhere.
The reason I wanted Scotland to remain within the Union was precisely because Scottish Catholic MPs got the measure in 2006 overturned.
In fact, I wonder if the abandonment of Catholics by the Labour Party isn't a major reason for their collapse in Scotland. Perhaps Murphy can reverse that.
Traditionally, Scottish Nationalist surges have been blunted when they've had to move into Catholic areas. No longer, it seems.
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/damian-thompson/2014/09/the-scottish-catholic-bishops-and-the-nationalists-a-scandal-is-coming-to-light/
Think you will find a good few Catholics south of the border voting UKIP. Certainly the other three parties offer nothing to people who are pro [sacramental] marriage, pro life and/or pro family. They have made that pretty clear.
Might partly account for Labour coming so close to losing Heywood and Middleton. NW England, historical Lancashire, has the highest proportion of Catholics in the population anyhere in England (which is why that one county has three Dioceses- Salford, Liverpool and Lancaster)0 -
He is not doomed. He will be a Tory candidate in the South East. Obviously, not Kent, which is UKIP territory !TheScreamingEagles said:
I've had this nasty feeling since about 2011 that Danny was doomed.Quincel said:Another good example of rules of thumb contradicting each other:
1. Decapitation attempts never work
2. The Lib Dems are beyond saving
I suspect #2 will be victorious in this case.
However, I wonder if Tory/Lab Unionists will back Danny Alexander, and vote tactically to defeat Alex Salmond for the second time in 8 months.
Just look how unpopular Salmond is, since he quit, the Nats have been surging in the polls
h/t TGOHF0 -
I've noticed Danny seem's to be a bit of a hate figure for the left-wing Twitterati - Almost as much as Clegg really, so I imagine his (metaphorical) decapitation could be one of the highlights of a election night - That and Dr Palmer winning back Broxtowe of course.
0 -
Welsh people.
That's karma for the ineptness of Nigels Owens today and in the summer0 -
No goals yet in any of the 3 Premiership games I'm following this afternoon.0
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I think you have just tempted fate. Mata has scored for United 1-0AndyJS said:No goals yet in any of the 3 Premiership games I'm following this afternoon.
0 -
Incidentally other than the ST/Yougov poll are we expecting any other polls tonight?0
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Opinium for the Observermanofkent2014 said:Incidentally other than the ST/Yougov poll are we expecting any other polls tonight?
0 -
Ta0
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Time's running for the LD's to swing things around, but I've an unreasonable, unjustifiable feeling that they just might.GIN1138 said:I've noticed Danny seem's to be a bit of a hate figure for the left-wing Twitterati - Almost as much as Clegg really, so I imagine his (metaphorical) decapitation could be one of the highlights of a election night - That and Dr Palmer winning back Broxtowe of course.
Concern about mental health facilities and treatment seems to be c keeping up the agenda, as does a rational and sensible approach to drug use.0 -
Darn.manofkent2014 said:
I think you have just tempted fate. Mata has scored for United 1-0AndyJS said:No goals yet in any of the 3 Premiership games I'm following this afternoon.
0 -
Though they probably won't publish their tables till Monday...grrr!TheScreamingEagles said:
Opinium for the Observermanofkent2014 said:Incidentally other than the ST/Yougov poll are we expecting any other polls tonight?
0 -
I've listened to the statement but got bored during the questions.MarkHopkins said:another_richard said:
So an official spokesman can say any load of bollox and that becomes the official line ? What an interesting organisation.MarkHopkins said:another_richard said:
I'm no lawyer or expert in the odd ways of the EU but I would have thought the written document would have been the official one.
The phrase 'have you got that in writing' comes to mind.
And how much difference is there normally between EU spoken press releases and EU written press releases ?
In any case did he say the Rebate wouldn't apply in his spoken statement or not mention the issue at all ?
If its the former then Osborne may have a case, if its the latter then he doesn't.
This is Wiki's take on it....
Sometimes, the first page of a transcript will have the words "Check Against Delivery" stamped across it, which means that the transcript is not the legal representation of the speech, but rather only the audio delivery is regarded as the official record. This is better explained in the French version of the message – Seul le texte prononcé fait foi, literally "Only the spoken text is faithful".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transcript_(law)
Now what did he say in the spoken statement.
If he said that the Rebate wouldn't apply then Osborne may have a case.
If he didn't then Osborne doesn't.
And if we don't have the spoken statement available then we have to assume the written document is correct.
LIVE EC Midday press briefing of 27/10/2014
http://ec.europa.eu/avservices/video/player.cfm?sitelang=en&ref=I094616
Unless I missed something (and I was a bit distracted by rugby) there was nothing there which contradicts the written statement.
One thing I did notice is that this seems to be something which happens every year.
If so then it should be possible to discover if the the UK Rebate has previously applied.
If nobody can show otherwise this remains the definitive EU statement on the issue:
"Let me point out in this respect that the UK will benefit from the UK rebate for the additional payments in 2014."
With Osborne being thus a proven liar.
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They aren't obligated to publish them until Tuesday.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Though they probably won't publish their tables till Monday...grrr!TheScreamingEagles said:
Opinium for the Observermanofkent2014 said:Incidentally other than the ST/Yougov poll are we expecting any other polls tonight?
Just saying.0 -
Relaxing criminal punishments, classic vote-winner.OldKingCole said:
Time's running for the LD's to swing things around, but I've an unreasonable, unjustifiable feeling that they just might.GIN1138 said:I've noticed Danny seem's to be a bit of a hate figure for the left-wing Twitterati - Almost as much as Clegg really, so I imagine his (metaphorical) decapitation could be one of the highlights of a election night - That and Dr Palmer winning back Broxtowe of course.
Concern about mental health facilities and treatment seems to be c keeping up the agenda, as does a rational and sensible approach to drug use.
Sadly, I'm just unconvinced there will be a big swing back to any establishment parties pre-election. Maybe some, but success for the LDs would now be holding onto half their votes.0 -
I feel a foul mood coming on, unless Aston Villa score in the next 10 minutes.0
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Given he yellowed an all black, gave England a penalty try, and it seems gave England at least one or two borderline decisions in the scrum, I don't think you've much to complain about.TheScreamingEagles said:Welsh people.
That's karma for the ineptness of Nigels Owens today and in the summer
Wales narrowly losing late to Australia has become a bit of a tradition.0 -
I presume as before the rest of the countries fund the rebate between them. Otherwise it can't be given to the UK. Are you suggesting we never really get the rebate now? Another killer conspiracy theory?Peter_the_Punter said:felix said:
No he isn't. You are missing the point - everyone including the Balls, Farage, etc missed this point because it is completely unclear what any rebate might be. 50% is a very tidy amount of the original total of 1.7B. which no-one predicted the other week. If they had you might have a point. you also ignore the delay in the payment and the removal of the threat to charge interest. You are allowing your hatred of Osborne to cloud your judgement.another_richard said:If this is true then Osborne is exposed as a liar:
Jacek DOMINIK
Commissioner for Financial Programming and Budget
Jacek Dominik's statement on the revision of member states' gross national income (GNI)
Press conference
Brussels, 27 October 2014
"Let me point out in this respect that the UK will benefit from the UK rebate for the additional payments in 2014."
http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_SPEECH-14-723_en.htm
On this subject can anyone provide an example when UK-EU financial transactions were deemed to have no effect on the UK Rebate ?
Felix, your argument will be considerably enhanced if you can tell us which country or countries will be picking up the tab for the 850,000 which the UK is no longer paying.0 -
He gave a try to the All Blacks that should have been for the TMO.corporeal said:
Given he yellowed an all black, gave England a penalty try, and it seems gave England at least one or two borderline decisions in the scrum, I don't think you've much to complain about.TheScreamingEagles said:Welsh people.
That's karma for the ineptness of Nigels Owens today and in the summer
Wales narrowly losing late to Australia has become a bit of a tradition.
Losing by three points flattered us.
However, I'm likely to tip England for the Six Nations.
I tipped Ireland for this year's contest and Wales in 2013.
I'm going to make it a hat-trick. I know it.
0 -
Shouldn't you know better than to support Villa ?AndyJS said:I feel a foul mood coming on, unless Aston Villa score in the next 10 minutes.
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@another_richard - This was on the BBC website on 23rd October:
So why is the UK suddenly being asked for extra cash?
This is part of an annual process in which the European statistics agency Eurostat uses figures from member states to work out how much they should each be contributing to the EU budget.
It happens every year, and in some previous years I'm told that the UK has received a rebate.
You might not have noticed it in previous years, because the amounts involved have been smaller.
This year, however, the UK has been asked for an additional contribution, which is considerably higher than any other member state.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-29757296
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I have been known to obtain them on the Monday, just sayin'TheScreamingEagles said:
They aren't obligated to publish them until Tuesday.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Though they probably won't publish their tables till Monday...grrr!TheScreamingEagles said:
Opinium for the Observermanofkent2014 said:Incidentally other than the ST/Yougov poll are we expecting any other polls tonight?
Just saying.
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especially against West HamAlanbrooke said:
Shouldn't you know better than to support Villa ?AndyJS said:I feel a foul mood coming on, unless Aston Villa score in the next 10 minutes.
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Surely the basic problem was Cameron getting out of his pram over it?SouthamObserver said:@another_richard - This was on the BBC website on 23rd October:
So why is the UK suddenly being asked for extra cash?
This is part of an annual process in which the European statistics agency Eurostat uses figures from member states to work out how much they should each be contributing to the EU budget.
It happens every year, and in some previous years I'm told that the UK has received a rebate.
You might not have noticed it in previous years, because the amounts involved have been smaller.
This year, however, the UK has been asked for an additional contribution, which is considerably higher than any other member state.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-29757296
Incidentally, IIRC Greece is also due to make a payment. I've seen SFA about that, or about Cameron (or Osborne) looking to make common cause with them.
And din't Holland just say "them's the rules. Bother!" Or something like that?0 -
Oh, so we did get a discount then, despite what the Finnish Minister for Finance stated?felix said:
I presume as before the rest of the countries fund the rebate between them. Otherwise it can't be given to the UK. Are you suggesting we never really get the rebate now? Another killer conspiracy theory?Peter_the_Punter said:felix said:
No he isn't. You are missing the point - everyone including the Balls, Farage, etc missed this point because it is completely unclear what any rebate might be. 50% is a very tidy amount of the original total of 1.7B. which no-one predicted the other week. If they had you might have a point. you also ignore the delay in the payment and the removal of the threat to charge interest. You are allowing your hatred of Osborne to cloud your judgement.another_richard said:If this is true then Osborne is exposed as a liar:
Jacek DOMINIK
Commissioner for Financial Programming and Budget
Jacek Dominik's statement on the revision of member states' gross national income (GNI)
Press conference
Brussels, 27 October 2014
"Let me point out in this respect that the UK will benefit from the UK rebate for the additional payments in 2014."
http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_SPEECH-14-723_en.htm
On this subject can anyone provide an example when UK-EU financial transactions were deemed to have no effect on the UK Rebate ?
Felix, your argument will be considerably enhanced if you can tell us which country or countries will be picking up the tab for the 850,000 which the UK is no longer paying.0 -
I'm not really supporting them as such, they were just one of three outsiders I was backing on Betfair to go ahead at some stage. Unfortunately, none of them did.Alanbrooke said:
Shouldn't you know better than to support Villa ?AndyJS said:I feel a foul mood coming on, unless Aston Villa score in the next 10 minutes.
Relying on QPR now to go ahead against Man City to recoup my losses.0 -
Look on the bright side you coulod have backed Wolves !AndyJS said:
I'm not really supporting them as such, they were just one of three outsiders I was backing on Betfair to go ahead at some stage. Unfortunately, none of them did.Alanbrooke said:
Shouldn't you know better than to support Villa ?AndyJS said:I feel a foul mood coming on, unless Aston Villa score in the next 10 minutes.
Relying on QPR now to go ahead against Man City to recoup my losses.0 -
We didn't get any discount we hadn't already been promised since the 1984 hand-bagging.Peter_the_Punter said:
Oh, so we did get a discount then, despite what the Finnish Minister for Finance stated?felix said:
I presume as before the rest of the countries fund the rebate between them. Otherwise it can't be given to the UK. Are you suggesting we never really get the rebate now? Another killer conspiracy theory?Peter_the_Punter said:felix said:
No he isn't. You are missing the point - everyone including the Balls, Farage, etc missed this point because it is completely unclear what any rebate might be. 50% is a very tidy amount of the original total of 1.7B. which no-one predicted the other week. If they had you might have a point. you also ignore the delay in the payment and the removal of the threat to charge interest. You are allowing your hatred of Osborne to cloud your judgement.another_richard said:If this is true then Osborne is exposed as a liar:
Jacek DOMINIK
Commissioner for Financial Programming and Budget
Jacek Dominik's statement on the revision of member states' gross national income (GNI)
Press conference
Brussels, 27 October 2014
"Let me point out in this respect that the UK will benefit from the UK rebate for the additional payments in 2014."
http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_SPEECH-14-723_en.htm
On this subject can anyone provide an example when UK-EU financial transactions were deemed to have no effect on the UK Rebate ?
Felix, your argument will be considerably enhanced if you can tell us which country or countries will be picking up the tab for the 850,000 which the UK is no longer paying.0
