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The WH2024 primaries will be different from what we are used to. – politicalbetting.com

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  • MattWMattW Posts: 26,163
    edited November 2023
    Carnyx said:

    Just possible they don't want to use the hardened head [edit] of the hammer on the die/punch (for risk of chips in the eye)? But if so, then the lady ought to be provided with an appropriate tool such as a wooden, plastic or otherwise suitable metal hammer.
    Isn't this just our media effwits being their usual gormless, brain-dead, idiotic, plank-like presumptive selves?

    AFAICS that is a repousse ("chasing") hammer, which has a wide, slightly domed end for forming metal sheets or wire without creating edges.

    And a narrow domed end for creating a hammered texture.

    So when they want to use a narrow die, they use the flat side. Using the domed face for that would wreck the tool.

    I suspect an Indian Gent from a fairly wealthy family knows more about jewellery than a collection of UK tabloid press median morons ever will, since gold is how they traditionally store much wealth.

    They could have checked 30s of video:
    https://youtu.be/SH8D4d9naGg?t=9
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,488
    Selebian said:

    Maybe.* But the press never showed the woman from Greggs instructing him on how to eat it in a non-conventional way. :wink:

    *Did he?! It's believable, unfortunately. He had some very bad advisers, I think. No one ever looks good eating things.
    There's a whole Wiki article on it:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ed_Miliband_bacon_sandwich_photograph

    I reckon someone wanted him to look like a normal working class guy eating a bacon sarnie.
  • tlg86 said:

    There's a whole Wiki article on it:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ed_Miliband_bacon_sandwich_photograph

    I reckon someone wanted him to look like a normal working class guy eating a bacon sarnie.
    Maybe they thought it would make him look less Jewish?
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 9,201

    The only boy who could ever fool me
    Specially for BJO:

    Sir Keir was a toolmaker's son
    And when magic grandpa fell, he come along
    Blairites gathered 'round and started talkin'
    That's when his promises went a-walkin'
    Out from left to right they went walkin'
    Then he'd look into my eyes
    Lord knows, to my surprise
    The only one who could ever fool me
    Was the son of a toolmaker
    The only boy who could ever fool me
    Was the son of a toolmaker
    Yes, he was, he was, ooh, yes, he was
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,215
    So Labour think there is only one way to use a hammer?

    The words of the great Alexei Sayle seem apposite here:

    "Anybody that uses the word "workshop" who isn't involved in light engineering is a c**t..."

  • Do we know why she told him to use the side of the hammer? Perhaps she decided he was going to miss if he tried to use the hammer face.
    Clearly an operative of the KGB* trying to sow divison and diminish the status of our great leader.

    * Or Mossad/Hamas/Q/AI/Aliens/Wokerati/Anti-Wokerati as preferred
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,330
    edited November 2023

    He won in that his 24% is higher than any other party's vote share. However, 24% is also about what the Conservatives are currently polling at here and we don't see that as winning!
    The parties of the right and centre right won a clear majority, and I think the Dutch would be rightly pissed if another rainbow coalition were to be formed with the losers - and would give more votes to the PVV next time.

    Including the PVV in a right wing coalition would not give them anything close to a majority, but would tie them into government decisions.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,488

    Maybe they thought it would make him look less Jewish?
    Who cares about about a politician being Jewish (or from a Jewish background)? Possibly some Muslims, but then eating a bacon sarnie might not be a great way to go about it.

    No, I think it was about not wanting to appear like a middle-class North Londoner. Same with the kitchenette debacle.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 30,873
    Andy_JS said:

    Geert Wilders' latest statement.

    "Geert Wilders
    @geertwilderspvv
    So it’s news that we won the Dutch elections. Get used to it. Many more European countries will follow. Freedom and patriotism - our own nations and people first - is the new political reality. "

    https://twitter.com/geertwilderspvv/status/1728056875290067289

    Fair play, your boy done good!

    Is Wilders coalitionable, bearing in mind his shilling for Putin?

    No question however, Europe is in a very bad place.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,155
    Selebian said:

    Specially for BJO:

    Sir Keir was a toolmaker's son
    And when magic grandpa fell, he come along
    Blairites gathered 'round and started talkin'
    That's when his promises went a-walkin'
    Out from left to right they went walkin'
    Then he'd look into my eyes
    Lord knows, to my surprise
    The only one who could ever fool me
    Was the son of a toolmaker
    The only boy who could ever fool me
    Was the son of a toolmaker
    Yes, he was, he was, ooh, yes, he was
    Nice try but it scans about as well as this government governs.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 14,675
    Sean_F said:

    The parties of the right and centre right won a clear majority, and I think the Dutch would be rightly pissed if another rainbow coalition were to be formed - and would give more votes to the PVV next time.

    Including the PVV in a right wing coalition would not give them anything close to a majority, but would tie them into government decisions.
    Including the far right in a coalition government famously never caused problems in previous European history.
  • tlg86 said:

    Who cares about about a politician being Jewish (or from a Jewish background)? Possibly some Muslims, but then eating a bacon sarnie might not be a great way to go about it.

    No, I think it was about not wanting to appear like a middle-class North Londoner. Same with the kitchenette debacle.
    Is a pig eating Jew as bad as a Zionist?
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,488

    So Labour think there is only one way to use a hammer?

    The words of the great Alexei Sayle seem apposite here:

    "Anybody that uses the word "workshop" who isn't involved in light engineering is a c**t..."

    :neutral:
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,520
    Selebian said:

    Maybe.* But the press never showed the woman from Greggs instructing him on how to eat it in a non-conventional way. :wink:

    *Did he?! It's believable, unfortunately. He had some very bad advisers, I think. No one ever looks good eating things.
    Most people look nice nibbling an olive. Eg I think both Sunak and Starmer probably would. But I'd still counsel against it in a general election year.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 14,675
    tlg86 said:

    Will Labour be brave enough to correct this? Looks like fake news to me.
    Oh yes. Oh yes they will

    https://x.com/labourpress/status/1728089153110208917?s=20
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,488
    TimS said:

    Oh yes. Oh yes they will

    https://x.com/labourpress/status/1728089153110208917?s=20
    Not deleted the original tweet I notice.
  • kinabalu said:

    Most people look nice nibbling an olive. Eg I think both Sunak and Starmer probably would. But I'd still counsel against it in a general election year.
    Especially if Popeye is around.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 45,098
    TimS said:

    Oh yes. Oh yes they will

    https://x.com/labourpress/status/1728089153110208917?s=20
    ... and they just make it worse.

    If you **** up, apologise properly. Like a grown up. Especially if you want to run the country...
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 13,333
    Sean_F said:

    The parties of the right and centre right won a clear majority, and I think the Dutch would be rightly pissed if another rainbow coalition were to be formed with the losers - and would give more votes to the PVV next time.

    Including the PVV in a right wing coalition would not give them anything close to a majority, but would tie them into government decisions.
    Some Dutch parties ruled out entering a coalition with the PVV, so parties who voted for them would presumably be pissed if they then did that. However, the bigger parties on the right, the VVD and NSC, were more circumspect. NSC ummed and ahhed a bit, but did eventually come down to opposing the idea of any coalition with the PVV. The VVD notably didn't rule out the idea, but weren't keen. The VVD leader said she wouldn't want to be in a cabinet in which the PVV was the biggest party.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,520
    TimS said:

    Oh yes. Oh yes they will

    https://x.com/labourpress/status/1728089153110208917?s=20
    Sheer unadulterated integrity. Tories put to shame again.
  • Selebian said:

    Maybe.* But the press never showed the woman from Greggs instructing him on how to eat it in a non-conventional way. :wink:

    *Did he?! It's believable, unfortunately. He had some very bad advisers, I think. No one ever looks good eating things.
    iirc Ed's advisers told him not to eat it but he was hungry and thought the photo op was over.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,271
    Leon said:

    What?

    If you are, say, a disaffected young black man from Lewisham - aggrieved at the perceived injustice of white society - then you will look for a belief system that empowers and embodies your anger. That role used to be fulfilled by radical left wing thought - eg the Black Panthers

    However, left wing thought has largely collapsed as a coherent ideology, or it has folded itself into the worldwide creed of Islam. This is an ancient global religion which is seen as opposed to the West, as powerful in itself, and- not least- gives young men a self respect and a sense of deep superiority over women and non believers = Kaffirs

    Suddenly you are not the abject descendant of slaves you are a member of the chosen, A devout Muslim.

    I can absolutely see why this appeals to angry black men - and indeed angry white men. And all else being equal I would say good luck to them, Islam is a noble religion, at its best, and surely offers a happier, more meaningful life than base materialism on the lower rungs of capitalist society. Cf Muhammad Ali

    The trouble is many are attracted to the more extreme forms of Islam which require violent attack on westerners and the West
    A takeaway from the BBC documentary Hometown (which is about Huddersfield and I linked to it earlier) was that the presenter, himself a British Muslim from the town, found that the warped interpretation of Islam that the those he investigated held was that they retained their religiosity, despite dealing drugs (and carrying knives), if their customers were non-Muslims. Extend this to the grooming gangs.
  • jamesdoylejamesdoyle Posts: 795
    edited November 2023
    Sunak may not be stupid enough that he doesn't know how to use a hammer - but he obviously is stupid enough not to realise that doing this will result in millions of memes that make it look like he doesn't know how to use a hammer. And the latter stupidity is, I submit, worse for a prime minister.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,155

    ... and they just make it worse.

    If you **** up, apologise properly. Like a grown up. Especially if you want to run the country...
    Do you mean like Sunak's non-apology over Eat Out to Help Out?
  • iirc Ed's advisers told him not to eat it but he was hungry and thought the photo op was over.
    I wonder what would happen if we tried electing leaders who could manage to get through a day without needing a gang of twentysomething posh advisers to tell them whether and how to eat.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,271
    Andy_JS said:

    Geert Wilders' latest statement.

    "Geert Wilders
    @geertwilderspvv
    So it’s news that we won the Dutch elections. Get used to it. Many more European countries will follow. Freedom and patriotism - our own nations and people first - is the new political reality. "

    https://twitter.com/geertwilderspvv/status/1728056875290067289

    I've not followed this - is this guy anti-EU? I recall around the time of the referendum that Netherlands were possible candidates to follow us out.
  • I wonder what would happen if we tried electing leaders who could manage to get through a day without needing a gang of twentysomething posh advisers to tell them whether and how to eat.
    Sounds like he didn't listen to the twentysomething posh advisors and as a result wasn't elected.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,119
    edited November 2023
    TOPPING said:

    I'm sorry you feel that. To me your position is illogical. You haven't explained what people are assimilating into but that's cool we can go back to STV/AV vs FPTP.
    Enoch Powell said that if immigration wasn’t stopped, white British people would be minorities in big cities, and that has happened. It was unthinkable when he said it, and people said he was exaggerating, but it is unarguable that it’s happened

    He said that the immigrant community wouldn’t be evenly spread from Penzance to Aberdeen, but there’d be clusters where practically only immigrants and their descendants lived, and that’s true too

    He extrapolated that there would be acts of
    violence that could only be described as civil war,
    and 7/7, Lee Rigby & the Rotherham rapes seem to be examples of that to me. Not that immigrants are predisposed to be criminals, but that these crimes only took place because of the inevitable clash of cultures enabled by mass immigration

    I really didn’t think I’d need to say this, as PB seems quite an intelligent place, but the fact I see those three things as true doesn’t mean i dislike immigrants, or people who have different colour skin from me; far from it. I take it as an inevitable part of the modern world, but it doesn’t mean I have to pretend that what was said by Enoch Powell, (before my time, & I only read it in 2011) doesn’t ring true.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,155
    edited November 2023
    The lesson of the Hammer is surely that it's perfectly believable Sunak can't use one and never has, because has people to do that sort of thing for him.

    See also using a contactless card: https://metro.co.uk/2022/08/10/rishi-sunak-was-taught-how-to-use-a-contactless-card-17159690/
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,439

    The lesson of the Hammer is surely that it's perfectly believable Sunak can't use one and never has, because has people to do that sort of thing for him.

    People who say things like this really have no right to complain about populism.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 30,428
    kinabalu said:

    Most people look nice nibbling an olive. Eg I think both Sunak and Starmer probably would. But I'd still counsel against it in a general election year.
    Olives wouldn't be a good look - far too Waitrose. Bag of chips at the Seaside feels fairly safe - no fish though, too much risk of dropping, and certainly no saveloy.
  • I wonder what would happen if we tried electing leaders who could manage to get through a day without needing a gang of twentysomething posh advisers to tell them whether and how to eat.
    I wonder if we could run an election without any photo-op stunts.
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,766

    I think the election will be decided by the debates and one that is most cogent/less doddery wins.
    I thought Trump has already said he will not take part in Presidential debates.

    Which could be a mistake as he'll lose the chance of looking fitter and more alert than Biden.
  • MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 1,749

    ... and they just make it worse.

    If you **** up, apologise properly. Like a grown up. Especially if you want to run the country...
    Think of it as 'owning the Cons'.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 45,098

    Do you mean like Sunak's non-apology over Eat Out to Help Out?
    I missed that, what was it?

    But yes, apologies can be hard to make appear sincere. As I've shown on here once or twice... :(
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 9,201

    Nice try but it scans about as well as this government governs.
    Harsh. Fair, probably. But harsh :cry:

    Were you, by any chance, an academic?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022

    Some Dutch parties ruled out entering a coalition with the PVV, so parties who voted for them would presumably be pissed if they then did that. However, the bigger parties on the right, the VVD and NSC, were more circumspect. NSC ummed and ahhed a bit, but did eventually come down to opposing the idea of any coalition with the PVV. The VVD notably didn't rule out the idea, but weren't keen. The VVD leader said she wouldn't want to be in a cabinet in which the PVV was the biggest party.
    So is it better that the real decisions on the next government are made among the politicians after the election, or that the broad coalitions are decided beforehand, and manifestos presented by parties to the electorate, with a good chance that one will win a majority and take over the next day?
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,867

    Embarrassing for the Labour Party:

    https://x.com/uklabour/status/1728068987047584222
    How many people will see that she told him to do that, as a percentage of the people who see the video? Maybe 5-10%, if he's lucky.
  • MikeL said:

    I thought Trump has already said he will not take part in Presidential debates.

    Which could be a mistake as he'll lose the chance of looking fitter and more alert than Biden.
    Maybe. Tbh I thought it was only the Republican debates he was avoiding but it is not just Biden who is getting old. Trump has had a few "senior moments" of his own recently.
  • kinabalu said:

    Sheer unadulterated integrity. Tories put to shame again.
    The only Kinabalu couldn't fool me
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,994
    isam said:

    I’ve had this argument so many times on here that I can’t be bothered now really. I end up becoming a board on to which people can project
    their wilful misunderstandings & virtue signalling
    We are swimming in rivers of shit as an alternative
  • MattWMattW Posts: 26,163
    edited November 2023

    Do we know why she told him to use the side of the hammer? Perhaps she decided he was going to miss if he tried to use the hammer face.
    I've commented on that.

    It is a chasing hammer - one end is a wide dome for flattening metal sheets and wire without hammer-edge marks. The other end is a narrow dome for texturing.

    So when you want to hammer *something* - like a die - and don't want to swap hammers, you use the flat side.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 9,201
    kinabalu said:

    Most people look nice nibbling an olive. Eg I think both Sunak and Starmer probably would. But I'd still counsel against it in a general election year.
    Farage can apparently even manage a bacon sarnie and come out intact
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/oct/02/nigel-farage-shows-ed-miliband-how-to-eat-a-bacon-sandwich
    What a man!

    Still, he'll need that training over the next few weeks, I guess.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,119
    MattW said:

    I've commented on that.

    It is a chasing hammer - one end is a wide dome for flattening metal sheets and wire without hammer-edge marks. The other end is a narrow dome for texturing.

    So when you want to hammer *something* - like a die - and don't want to swap hammers, you use the flat side.
    The people ‘hammering’ him for it seem to be the type of people who also never use a hammer.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,155
    Selebian said:

    Harsh. Fair, probably. But harsh :cry:

    Were you, by any chance, an academic?
    Er... no. Left school at 16.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 13,333
    Stocky said:

    I've not followed this - is this guy anti-EU? I recall around the time of the referendum that Netherlands were possible candidates to follow us out.
    He wants an exit referendum.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,119
    Selebian said:

    Farage can apparently even manage a bacon sarnie and come out intact
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/oct/02/nigel-farage-shows-ed-miliband-how-to-eat-a-bacon-sandwich
    What a man!

    Still, he'll need that training over the next few weeks, I guess.
    If Farage and Co had put a bit more effort into that By Election, it’s likely UKIP would have won it; instead they had hundreds of people in Clacton making sure Carswell retained his seat, which was a gimme anyway… and I was on H&M at big prices
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,449
    edited November 2023
    Stocky said:

    I've not followed this - is this guy anti-EU? I recall around the time of the referendum that Netherlands were possible candidates to follow us out.
    Yes, in theory he wants to take Holland out of the EU.

    Won't happen though, any more than Le Pen will take France out. Wilders doesn't have the clear majority he'd need and they're in the Euro which makes it ten times more difficult and expensive.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,520
    MikeL said:

    I thought Trump has already said he will not take part in Presidential debates.

    Which could be a mistake as he'll lose the chance of looking fitter and more alert than Biden.
    Trump can't 'debate' though. He just chunters away in his own world.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,155
    edited November 2023

    I missed that, what was it?

    But yes, apologies can be hard to make appear sincere. As I've shown on here once or twice... :(
    Sorry*, I misread your original point. Johnson's non-apology over Partygate or Pincher would have been better examples; Sunak's has been a literal non-apology.

    (*Or should that be 'sorry if you have been upset by my reply'? ;-))
  • MattWMattW Posts: 26,163
    isam said:

    The people ‘hammering’ him for it seem to be the type of people who also never use a hammer.
    I have the advantage that one grandad was a Director of a toolmakers in Sheffield.

    And I know a couple of jewellers.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022

    Maybe. Tbh I thought it was only the Republican debates he was avoiding but it is not just Biden who is getting old. Trump has had a few "senior moments" of his own recently.
    Yes he’s sitting out the preliminary Republican debates. He’ll turn up once the primary season actually starts.
  • isam said:

    Enoch Powell said that if immigration wasn’t stopped, white British people would be minorities in big cities, and that has happened. It was unthinkable when he said it, and people said he was exaggerating, but it is unarguable that it’s happened

    He said that the immigrant community wouldn’t be evenly spread from Penzance to Aberdeen, but there’d be clusters where practically only immigrants and their descendants lived, and that’s true too

    He extrapolated that there would be acts of
    violence that could only be described as civil war,
    and 7/7, Lee Rigby & the Rotherham rapes seem to be examples of that to me. Not that immigrants are predisposed to be criminals, but that these crimes only took place because of the inevitable clash of cultures enabled by mass immigration

    I really didn’t think I’d need to say this, as PB seems quite an intelligent place, but the fact I see those three things as true doesn’t mean i dislike immigrants, or people who have different colour skin from me; far from it. I take it as an inevitable part of the modern world, but it doesn’t mean I have to pretend that what was said by Enoch Powell, (before my time, & I only read it in 2011) doesn’t ring true.
    Powell was both right and wrong. He underestimated how long mass immigration could last without widespread massive social problems but we could be moving into an era where he is partially proved right.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,119
    edited November 2023
    Inevitably Southam Observer has fallen for it again. Never looks before he leaps does he?

    There is a special kind of beauty at play here. To be this absent from the real world is a special gift.

    https://x.com/spajw/status/1728066022433853816?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Double use of ‘special’ too. Nasty
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,330
    TimS said:

    Including the far right in a coalition government famously never caused problems in previous European history.
    The circumstances in Holland today are completely different to those in Germany in 1933. In the case of the latter, two thirds voted for parties opposed to democracy, and Hitler was granted powers to rule by decree.

    No one is going to shut down Dutch democracy.
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,948
    Stocky said:

    A takeaway from the BBC documentary Hometown (which is about Huddersfield and I linked to it earlier) was that the presenter, himself a British Muslim from the town, found that the warped interpretation of Islam that the those he investigated held was that they retained their religiosity, despite dealing drugs (and carrying knives), if their customers were non-Muslims. Extend this to the grooming gangs.
    A noteable thing about Islam is how it has changed in many countries due, for instance, to the influence of Saudi-backed wahhabism. There's no reason Islam can't accommodate itself to local cultures, and indeed does, but there is huge pressure being placed on it by Islamists. Traditionally there is, or was, a strong contrast between the way Islam is observed in, say, Malaysia, as opposed to the Arab states.

    V S Naipaul was quick off the mark to spot these developments. See "Among the Believers" (1981) and "Beyond Belief" (1998). It's been a long time coming.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,155
    Sandpit said:

    Yes he’s sitting out the preliminary Republican debates. He’ll turn up once the primary season actually starts.
    ...if he's not detained elsewhere.
  • As for white british people becoming a minority in big cities it becomes a big problem when you start to deal with local councils which in many cases have been taken over by muslims.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 26,163
    edited November 2023
    kinabalu said:

    Trump can't 'debate' though. He just chunters away in his own world.
    Trump is up sh*t creek, and going ever further up it as more legal actions come his way.

    He still hasn't had a criminal indictment for fraud in New York for example - it is currently a civil case.

    But the charges laid all have criminal equivalents (I am told), so if the evidence is strong enough to win on the balance of probabilities (and we already have summary 'proven' findings on just findings of fact for two of the charges) the DA can come back later (if the Governor gives permission) with similar criminal charges for the stronger beyond reasonable doubt standard. I have not checked but I expect these could carry jail time.
  • isam said:

    Inevitably Southam Observer has fallen for it again. Never looks before he leaps does he?

    There is a special kind of beauty at play here. To be this absent from the real world is a special gift.

    https://x.com/spajw/status/1728066022433853816?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Double use of ‘special’ too. Nasty

    A lie can run round the world before the truth has got its boots on......
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,520
    Fishing said:

    Yes, in theory he wants to take Holland out of the EU.

    Won't happen though, any more than Le Pen will take France out. Wilders doesn't have the clear majority he'd need and they're in the Euro which makes it ten times more difficult and expensive.
    He'd need to persuade the public first. They aren't up for leaving the EU atm. Course that could change if the country goes all 'Holland first, make the Dutch great again'.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,795

    I think it comes from her (a) being popular and (b) being connected to politics. It is a very silly suggestion based on wish-fulfilment.
    Bit like the reflexive “Bring me a live Kennedy”

    Which reached a peak when Teddy keeled over - the random member of the Kennedy clan they tried first, actually bowed out. Because *she* said that she wasn’t up to it.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,520
    MattW said:

    Trump is up sh*t creek, and going ever further up it as more legal actions come his way.

    He still hasn't had a criminal indictment for fraud in New York for example - it is currently a civil case.

    But the charges laid all have criminal equivalents (I am told), so if the evidence is strong enough to win on the balance of probabilities (and we already have summary 'proven' findings on just findings of fact for two of the charges) the DA can come back later (if the Governor gives permission) with similar criminal charges for the stronger beyond reasonable doubt standard. I have not checked but I expect these could carry jail time.
    I think he is, yes. I'm just waiting for the shoes to drop.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 13,333

    Powell was both right and wrong. He underestimated how long mass immigration could last without widespread massive social problems but we could be moving into an era where he is partially proved right.
    Public concern around immigration is at historic lows in the UK.
  • MattW said:

    Trump is up sh*t creek, and going ever further up it as more legal actions come his way.

    He still hasn't had a criminal indictment for fraud in New York for example - it is currently a civil case.

    But the charges laid all have criminal equivalents (I am told), so if the evidence is strong enough to win on the balance of probabilities (and we already have summary 'proven' findings on just findings of fact for two of the charges) the DA can come back later (if the Governor gives permission) with similar criminal charges for the stronger beyond reasonable doubt standard. I have not checked but I expect these could carry jail time.
    Apparently if Trump gets in again he plans to fire 100000 govt employees straight off the bat.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 13,333
    Sean_F said:

    The circumstances in Holland today are completely different to those in Germany in 1933. In the case of the latter, two thirds voted for parties opposed to democracy, and Hitler was granted powers to rule by decree.

    No one is going to shut down Dutch democracy.
    After Trump and others, I would take the threat of democratic backsliding seriously.
  • For the first time since the war began, the Islamist group Hizb-Ut-Tahrir has given the police notice of a separate protest at the Israeli Embassy in Kensington.

    Hizb ut-Tahrir's status has been a subject of political controversy for decades.

    Former prime ministers Tony Blair and David Cameron both promised to ban the group, whose stated aim is the re-establishment of an Islamic caliphate, before abandoning the proposals

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-67517410
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,795

    A noteable thing about Islam is how it has changed in many countries due, for instance, to the influence of Saudi-backed wahhabism. There's no reason Islam can't accommodate itself to local cultures, and indeed does, but there is huge pressure being placed on it by Islamists. Traditionally there is, or was, a strong contrast between the way Islam is observed in, say, Malaysia, as opposed to the Arab states.

    V S Naipaul was quick off the mark to spot these developments. See "Among the Believers" (1981) and "Beyond Belief" (1998). It's been a long time coming.
    Strangely, if you invest billions preaching hate over decades. You get a lot of hate.

    Why the actual fuck we allow this stuff in British Prisons is beyond me.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,155

    As for white british people becoming a minority in big cities it becomes a big problem when you start to deal with local councils which in many cases have been taken over by muslims.

    Ok Moray, here's a hint: you're going to have to master capitalising the words correctly if you want us to believe you are not a Russian troll. Just trying to help there.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 29,822
    edited November 2023
    Gaza protest: Met Police leaflet clarifies phrases that might break law

    The leaflets warn protestors not to use words of images:
    • that are racist or incite hatred against any faith
    • that support Hamas or any other banned organisation, it is illegal under UK law to support such terrorist organisations
    • that celebrate or promote acts of terrorism - such as the killing or kidnap of innocent people
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-67517410
  • A noteable thing about Islam is how it has changed in many countries due, for instance, to the influence of Saudi-backed wahhabism. There's no reason Islam can't accommodate itself to local cultures, and indeed does, but there is huge pressure being placed on it by Islamists. Traditionally there is, or was, a strong contrast between the way Islam is observed in, say, Malaysia, as opposed to the Arab states.

    V S Naipaul was quick off the mark to spot these developments. See "Among the Believers" (1981) and "Beyond Belief" (1998). It's been a long time coming.
    Also mamy countries like Iran have gone backwards in terms of muslim extremism the last 30 to 40 years.
  • Ok Moray, here's a hint: you're going to have to master capitalising the words correctly if you want us to believe you are not a Russian troll. Just trying to help there.
    Paranoia is never a good trait to have.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,131
    edited November 2023

    Gaza protest: Met Police leaflet clarifies phrases that might break law

    The leaflets warn protestors not to use words of images:

    • that are racist or incite hatred against any faith
    • that support Hamas or any other banned organisation, it is illegal under UK law to support such terrorist organisations
    • that celebrate or promote acts of terrorism - such as the killing or kidnap of innocent people
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-67517410
    Protesters will be told to "bin any placard or sign that might break these rules".

    I wonder if I went around London with a die hard with a vengeance style sandwich board if the police would just politely ask me to bin it?

    And they also appear to have deemed calls for Jihad and Interfada to not fall foul of the above categorisations.
  • Interesting comment from David Icke.

    Mass migration has been a calculated Cult plan playing out across the world from Europe to the US southern border. It is about demographic and cultural change to unravel western society and to trigger conflict on the streets as we are seeing in Dublin tonight. The outrage at the children is understandable, but burning your own city will change nothing. Jailing the politicians and funders responsible for systematically opening the gates across Europe and the US and throwing away the key would be far more productive with those in Sweden at the front of the queue. Happy now, Mr Soros? Got want you wanted? Thought so.

    https://x.com/davidicke/status/1727798932208525680?s=20
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 13,333
    edited November 2023

    Interesting comment from David Icke.

    Mass migration has been a calculated Cult plan playing out across the world from Europe to the US southern border. It is about demographic and cultural change to unravel western society and to trigger conflict on the streets as we are seeing in Dublin tonight. The outrage at the children is understandable, but burning your own city will change nothing. Jailing the politicians and funders responsible for systematically opening the gates across Europe and the US and throwing away the key would be far more productive with those in Sweden at the front of the queue. Happy now, Mr Soros? Got want you wanted? Thought so.

    https://x.com/davidicke/status/1727798932208525680?s=20

    Quoting David Icke? OK, you are a troll. (But it's not a Saturday???)
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 50,746
    edited November 2023
    kinabalu said:

    He'd need to persuade the public first. They aren't up for leaving the EU atm. Course that could change if the country goes all 'Holland first, make the Dutch great again'.
    The last Netherlands poll was a few years back, but 75% Remain, 25% leave.

    PVV did get the largest vote share, but only 23.5%, so hardly a majority.

    PVV polling nearly doubled over the last 6 weeks, a reaction to pro-Palestine protests perhaps.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,155

    Interesting comment from David Icke.

    Mass migration has been a calculated Cult plan playing out across the world from Europe to the US southern border. It is about demographic and cultural change to unravel western society and to trigger conflict on the streets as we are seeing in Dublin tonight. The outrage at the children is understandable, but burning your own city will change nothing. Jailing the politicians and funders responsible for systematically opening the gates across Europe and the US and throwing away the key would be far more productive with those in Sweden at the front of the queue. Happy now, Mr Soros? Got want you wanted? Thought so.

    https://x.com/davidicke/status/1727798932208525680?s=20

    Oh dear.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022

    A noteable thing about Islam is how it has changed in many countries due, for instance, to the influence of Saudi-backed wahhabism. There's no reason Islam can't accommodate itself to local cultures, and indeed does, but there is huge pressure being placed on it by Islamists. Traditionally there is, or was, a strong contrast between the way Islam is observed in, say, Malaysia, as opposed to the Arab states.

    V S Naipaul was quick off the mark to spot these developments. See "Among the Believers" (1981) and "Beyond Belief" (1998). It's been a long time coming.
    It’s working both ways in the Arab states, as many of them know that they need to bring in tourists before the oil runs out.

    I’m currently sitting in a restaurant on a beach, with a glass of wine and admiring the view.
  • Protesters will be told to "bin any placard or sign that might break these rules".

    I wonder if I went around London with a die hard with a vengeance style sandwich board if the police would just politely ask me to bin it?

    And they also appear to have deemed calls for Jihad and Interfada to not fall foul of the above categorisations.
    If you read the article, chants of "jihad" are mentioned as a no-no. I did not want to paste the whole thing.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 11,395

    Interesting comment from David Icke.

    Mass migration has been a calculated Cult plan playing out across the world from Europe to the US southern border. It is about demographic and cultural change to unravel western society and to trigger conflict on the streets as we are seeing in Dublin tonight. The outrage at the children is understandable, but burning your own city will change nothing. Jailing the politicians and funders responsible for systematically opening the gates across Europe and the US and throwing away the key would be far more productive with those in Sweden at the front of the queue. Happy now, Mr Soros? Got want you wanted? Thought so.

    https://x.com/davidicke/status/1727798932208525680?s=20

    Nooooooooo!
  • Things not looking too good for the west at the moment. Social disintegration and now this.

    Morning Joe admits Ukraine has lost the war against Russia. Public humiliation is here now. Public surrender is getting close.

    https://x.com/ShadowofEzra/status/1726622797118804153?s=20
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,131
    edited November 2023

    If you read the article, chants of "jihad" are mentioned as a no-no. I did not want to paste the whole thing.
    "though he also said context was important."

    They are still giving themselves wiggle room.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,844

    Don’t forget me!
    Cognisant of your legendary modesty, we wanted to spare your blushes.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,795

    As for white british people becoming a minority in big cities it becomes a big problem when you start to deal with local councils which in many cases have been taken over by muslims.

    1) If a plane crashes on the Ukraine/Republic Of China border, which side do you bury the survivors?
  • BREAKING: Zelensky of Ukraine is believed to have photographs of Hunter Biden that could bring down the Democratic Party in the US & has been using them to blackmail Biden who is completely compromised. Source: Rudy Giuliani
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,915
    A fabulous Thanksgiving day message from Trump:

    ""Happy Thanksgiving to ALL, including the Racist & Incompetent Attorney General of New York State, Letitia 'Peekaboo' James, who has let Murder & Violent Crime FLOURISH, & Businesses FLEE; the Radical Left Trump Hating Judge, a 'Psycho,' Arthur Engoron, who Criminally Defrauded the State of New York, & ME, by purposely Valuing my Assets at a 'tiny' Fraction of what they are really worth in order to convict me of Fraud before even a Trial, or seeing any PROOF, & used his Politically Biased & Corrupt Campaign Finance Violator, Chief Clerk Alison Greenfield, to sit by his side on the 'Bench' & tell him what to do; & Crooked Joe Biden, who has WEAPONIZED his Department of Injustice against his Political Opponent, & allowed our Country to go to HELL; & all of the other Radical Left Lunatics, Communists, Fascists, Marxists, Democrats, & RINOS, who are seriously looking to DESTROY OUR COUNTRY. Have no fear, however, we will WIN the Presidential Election of 2024, & MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN!!!"

    The man is a caricature of himself.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,131
    edited November 2023
    Appears our friends from GRU have found PB again. They do seem to really like it, I don't know why.

    Is it some initiation routine, get the newbie to try their BS on PB and they all laugh at them when they get their arse handed to them?
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 23,930
    "British complacency over defence has to end: The army is remote to most of us and investing in security is deemed unethical — but we need to wise up to new threats", William Hague, 20Nov2023, The Times, see https://archive.is/fZiNV
  • DavidL said:

    A fabulous Thanksgiving day message from Trump:

    ""Happy Thanksgiving to ALL, including the Racist & Incompetent Attorney General of New York State, Letitia 'Peekaboo' James, who has let Murder & Violent Crime FLOURISH, & Businesses FLEE; the Radical Left Trump Hating Judge, a 'Psycho,' Arthur Engoron, who Criminally Defrauded the State of New York, & ME, by purposely Valuing my Assets at a 'tiny' Fraction of what they are really worth in order to convict me of Fraud before even a Trial, or seeing any PROOF, & used his Politically Biased & Corrupt Campaign Finance Violator, Chief Clerk Alison Greenfield, to sit by his side on the 'Bench' & tell him what to do; & Crooked Joe Biden, who has WEAPONIZED his Department of Injustice against his Political Opponent, & allowed our Country to go to HELL; & all of the other Radical Left Lunatics, Communists, Fascists, Marxists, Democrats, & RINOS, who are seriously looking to DESTROY OUR COUNTRY. Have no fear, however, we will WIN the Presidential Election of 2024, & MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN!!!"

    The man is a caricature of himself.

    Make America Great Again.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,155
    edited November 2023

    BREAKING: Zelensky of Ukraine is believed to have photographs of Hunter Biden that could bring down the Democratic Party in the US & has been using them to blackmail Biden who is completely compromised. Source: Rudy Giuliani

    Could last less than an hour this one.

    Pathetic attempt. Surely PB warrants better than that?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 58,995

    BREAKING: Zelensky of Ukraine is believed to have photographs of Hunter Biden that could bring down the Democratic Party in the US & has been using them to blackmail Biden who is completely compromised. Source: Rudy Giuliani

    Ah yes, that beacon of truth that is Rudy Giuliani.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,915

    BREAKING: Zelensky of Ukraine is believed to have photographs of Hunter Biden that could bring down the Democratic Party in the US & has been using them to blackmail Biden who is completely compromised. Source: Rudy Giuliani

    That was quite inspired until the last sentence. Giuliani is not a valid source for anything I'm afraid. Good try though.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022
    6 posts before mentioning Ukraine negatively.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,520
    Foxy said:

    The last Netherlands poll was a few years back, but 75% Remain, 25% leave.

    PVV did get the largest vote share, but only 23.5%, so hardly a majority.

    PVV polling nearly doubled over the last 6 weeks, a reaction to pro-Palestine protests perhaps.
    Yes, the Palestine demos pissing people off, I heard that theory also from Leon, who says isn't talking to me anymore :(
  • Appears our friends from GRU have found PB again. They do seem to really like it, I don't know why.

    Is it some initiation routine, get the newbie to try their BS on PB and they all laugh at them when they get their arse handed to them?

    We all want peace in the world. Ball is in Bidens court for that.
  • "though he also said context was important."

    They are still giving themselves wiggle room.
    The police have said for some time that the government needs to strengthen the law. See also my other post about Hizb-Ut-Tahrir which both Labour and Conservative governments pledged to ban but never quite got round to it.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 11,395
    Nigelb said:

    Cognisant of your legendary modesty, we wanted to spare your blushes.
    I think it's disappointing that British industry hasn't come up with a way to capture the energy given off by such a radiant source. Fuelled by endless pineapple pizzas and insulated from the ground by elaborate shoes, the energy available is amazing!
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,795

    Paranoia is never a good trait to have.
    It depends - I used to work with a chap who was convinced that he had spent years of his life as a potential victim to a large, well organised gang of killers.

    He’d served in the Army in Northern Ireland.
  • Anyone got a hammer?

    Maybe not you, Prime Minister.
This discussion has been closed.