Elon Musk has openly declared himself a free speech absolutist. He wants to censor as little as possible on any side. So you will find anti semitism AND Islamophobia - as the article says
You can agree or disagree with his policy. But then, no one is forcing you to go on TwiX so what is your problem?
Except he's not so free speech when it comes to stuff about himself. And that's a big issue. You are either fully pro-free speech, and accept that means for everyone, and accept the problems that might occur. Or you do accept that there are limits to free speech, set fair and publicised rules, and try to apply those rules fairly.
Whereas too much of Twitter's policy seems to be "It must not upset Elon."
Though, playing devil’s advocate, he does own it. I think it’s quite healthy for people to be reminded that the social media platform they use is owned by someone, and any features it offers reflect your commercial value to it.
On Topic: As with many late night shenanigans this Cameron stunt of Sunak’s looks different in the cold light of the morning after. This one has unravelled particularly quickly for me. It’s another pasty tax but worse. Ok, it grabbed the headlines (good), pissed off the loony right (good), might end up saving a few seats here and there in the blue wall (good), but when you stop and really think about what he’s gone and done here, drafted in the last PM but three to be his actual Foreign Secretary, it’s ludicrous!
Terrific for Dave of course, he’s back feeling buzzy and important, big cheeses will be taking his calls again, but what does it say about the state of the Conservative Party? It says they are utterly bereft of ideas, talent and direction. The well is dry. We knew that anyway but this scrawls it in magic marker on a placard and hangs it round their neck for all to see, just in case anybody was in any doubt.
And Rishi. What does it say about him? Again, all negative. A heartbeat ago at the party conference he was defining himself as the ‘change’ we needed after decades of failed government. Now he turns for succour to the bloke who was in power longer than any other for the most recent of those decades. So it was all bollox then. His leader speech at his party conference was all bollox. Truly risible. He seems to have given up entirely on defining himself and the government he (supposedly?) leads.
A good post but after some of the vox pops I'vr been listening to I've come to the concusion British voters are pretty simple folk and also pretty racist. A Home Secretary leading an army of skinheads to the cenotaph is not to everyone the repulsive sight you or I might suppose it to be.
I fear the further we get from the EU the further we're losing our civilising influences. Cameron's appointment looked like an attempt to hold back the tide but the appointment of Esther McVey showed he was just backing his horse both ways.
I wish I thought Labour would help but they won't. Starmer is every bit as cynical as Sunak. They're both after the lowest common denominator and they'll do whatever is required to get them
Is this racist country the same one I know in which 30% of babies are born to a mother who was herself born outside the UK and is among the top choices to get to, if they can, for migrants and refugees, including those from Islamic countries, where there isn't a single MP from an extreme right wing party, whose last three Home Secretaries have been BAME and whose PM is Hindu?
Mrs J had been over here for well over twenty years, and has never had any racist abuse directed at her. (*) On our first night on a trip through Germany, she suffered racial abuse.
I know "the grass is always greener," but in Roger's case, I think he just hates the UK.
(*) Someone spat at her once in Oxford Street, but she had no idea if that was because she is foreign, a woman, or the guy was just an @sshat. Or all three...
Re the anti semitism and from the river to the sea stuff.
People should always remind themselves that the world or the vocal, social media world is now a binary one and revolves around the powerful and the powerless.
There is no inbetween. You are with one or the other. Hence Queers for Palestine.
Seen through this lens the whole thing is intelligible.
And perhaps less sinister.
The Hampstead intellectual, whose neighbour is likely Jewish, chanting from the river to the sea is unlikely for one moment to put the two together. Still less likely wishes any harm on his neighbour.
But these are the same people who will have been saying well yes the name of the boozer being the black boy is potentially offensive as slavery 100s of years ago, so we should rename it.....we need to be extremely sensitive to such things. Where as screaming a terrorist slogan to kill all the Jews, you know, its just a good rhyming ditty. And if anybody else walked through London screaming for say the removal of all (insert another minority) from UK, to set us all free, quite rightly would be in the nick in 2 seconds.
I don’t think they are the same people. Some people on the left said one thing; some people on the left said the other thing. They aren’t necessarily the same people. Some of those most vocally participating in pro-Palestinian protests (and who are also pro-Russia) are old school SWP Trotskyites who were never that concerned with (and sometimes explicitly sceptical of) inclusive language considerations.
“Most of the people that died on October 7 were killed by Israeli soldiers”
Also the amount of flat out denial. “No that didn’t happen”. “You’re a pathetic Israeli shill and you’re lying”. “Total fabrication”
The irony is that the journalist, Matt Chorley, is a pretty feeble woke centre-lefty
I think there are quite a few left of centre types getting quite a shock just how anti-semitism isn't isolated to a few fringe people who Jezza calls friends, how overt it has become (its ok to chant a terrorist slogan in public, calling for the removal of all Jews from Middle East), after for long periods of time talking up the dangers of far right extremism.
One of the odder things is the double standards applied to thinking around 'river to the sea'. Jewish people, on the whole, find this a frightening phrase with implications of genocide. But the same people who police all manner of language, on the (often justified) basis that your intent isn't the point, it's how it lands with the people in question - don't seem to give a shit because, y'know, Jews.
I am certain that many (most?) people who chant it don't have genocidal intent. But that's not the point.
Do you thiink most Jews believe themselves to be Israelis?
Virtually every Jew I know is ardently pro Israel even if they despise the Israeli government of the day
They usually express it as: “after everything we’ve been through, we need one country we know is safe. Where we can always go if it comes to it”
In fact I’m not sure I’ve met a Jew that doesn’t feel this, tho they must exist. Perhaps you are one
They are the ones that Jezza always finds to call friends and hold them up as example of why he definitely can't be an antisemite.
I recall a conversation with a Jewish woman who told me that the claims of antisemitism against Corbyn were a smear, so they certainly do exist.
Oh they exist. But they are a fringe minority. There was the weird campaign group for Jezza that was basically Jews for Jezza who claimed it was all a witch-hunt.
There are of course fringe Jewish figures in Israel who say Israel shouldn't exist and I don't mean the ultra-orthodox ones who don't believe it should exist in current form as not religious enough.
Honestly I don't think Jezza is an antisemite in thought or intent. But he is so blinkered by 'the struggle' that he doesn't see the Jew-hating fellow travelling that it allows to flourish.
Elon Musk has openly declared himself a free speech absolutist. He wants to censor as little as possible on any side. So you will find anti semitism AND Islamophobia - as the article says
You can agree or disagree with his policy. But then, no one is forcing you to go on TwiX so what is your problem?
Except he's not so free speech when it comes to stuff about himself. And that's a big issue. You are either fully pro-free speech, and accept that means for everyone, and accept the problems that might occur. Or you do accept that there are limits to free speech, set fair and publicised rules, and try to apply those rules fairly.
Whereas too much of Twitter's policy seems to be "It must not upset Elon."
Though, playing devil’s advocate, he does own it. I think it’s quite healthy for people to be reminded that the social media platform they use is owned by someone, and any features it offers reflect your commercial value to it.
He sorta owns it. Lots of the money came from other people and countries. Which is also part of the problem IMO...
Elon Musk has openly declared himself a free speech absolutist. He wants to censor as little as possible on any side. So you will find anti semitism AND Islamophobia - as the article says
You can agree or disagree with his policy. But then, no one is forcing you to go on TwiX so what is your problem?
Except he's not so free speech when it comes to stuff about himself. And that's a big issue. You are either fully pro-free speech, and accept that means for everyone, and accept the problems that might occur. Or you do accept that there are limits to free speech, set fair and publicised rules, and try to apply those rules fairly.
Whereas too much of Twitter's policy seems to be "It must not upset Elon."
Well as the left kept telling us back when Twitter was left wing - Twitter is not a public body, it can do what it likes, stop whining. Same same. Now Elon owns it. He can do what he likes. Stop whining
French film director Élie Chouraqui says that Marine Le Pen’s presence at the march against antisemitism is “une chance pour La France”. Her chances of winning the presidency keep growing.
Esther McVey has some work to do according to Ipsos.
People calling themselves 'woke' - 16% People calling themselves 'anti-woke' - 15% (1% less than the Suella Approvers!) People who don't care about such crap - 21% People who haven't a clue what any of it means - 44%
Just another sign why the culture wars thing is two groups only talking to themselves while the electorate scratch their heads at such lunacy
“Most of the people that died on October 7 were killed by Israeli soldiers”
Also the amount of flat out denial. “No that didn’t happen”. “You’re a pathetic Israeli shill and you’re lying”. “Total fabrication”
The irony is that the journalist, Matt Chorley, is a pretty feeble woke centre-lefty
I think there are quite a few left of centre types getting quite a shock just how anti-semitism isn't isolated to a few fringe people who Jezza calls friends, how overt it has become (its ok to chant a terrorist slogan in public, calling for the removal of all Jews from Middle East), after for long periods of time talking up the dangers of far right extremism.
One of the odder things is the double standards applied to thinking around 'river to the sea'. Jewish people, on the whole, find this a frightening phrase with implications of genocide. But the same people who police all manner of language, on the (often justified) basis that your intent isn't the point, it's how it lands with the people in question - don't seem to give a shit because, y'know, Jews.
I am certain that many (most?) people who chant it don't have genocidal intent. But that's not the point.
Do you thiink most Jews believe themselves to be Israelis?
Virtually every Jew I know is ardently pro Israel even if they despise the Israeli government of the day
They usually express it as: “after everything we’ve been through, we need one country we know is safe. Where we can always go if it comes to it”
In fact I’m not sure I’ve met a Jew that doesn’t feel this, tho they must exist. Perhaps you are one
They are the ones that Jezza always finds to call friends and hold them up as example of why he definitely can't be an antisemite.
I recall a conversation with a Jewish woman who told me that the claims of antisemitism against Corbyn were a smear, so they certainly do exist.
Oh they exist. But they are a fringe minority. There was the weird campaign group for Jezza that was basically Jews for Jezza who claimed it was all a witch-hunt.
There are of course fringe Jewish figures in Israel who say Israel shouldn't exist and I don't mean the ultra-orthodox ones who don't believe it should exist in current form as not religious enough.
Honestly I don't think Jezza is an antisemite in thought or intent. But he is so blinkered by 'the struggle' that he doesn't see the Jew-hating fellow travelling that it allows to flourish.
That has sort of been my view, he is so dense and so firm in his oppressor vs oppressed worldview is correct, he doesn't see any anti-Jewish stuff. But he really stretches that belief at times when he absolutely won't accept or acknowledge blatant truths.
Elon Musk has openly declared himself a free speech absolutist. He wants to censor as little as possible on any side. So you will find anti semitism AND Islamophobia - as the article says
You can agree or disagree with his policy. But then, no one is forcing you to go on TwiX so what is your problem?
Except he's not so free speech when it comes to stuff about himself. And that's a big issue. You are either fully pro-free speech, and accept that means for everyone, and accept the problems that might occur. Or you do accept that there are limits to free speech, set fair and publicised rules, and try to apply those rules fairly.
Whereas too much of Twitter's policy seems to be "It must not upset Elon."
Well as the left kept telling us back when Twitter was left wing - Twitter is not a public body, it can do what it likes, stop whining. Same same. Now Elon owns it. He can do what he likes. Stop whining
Twitter was never 'left wing'. And I'm fine with their being rules; but those rules should at least try to be open and impartially applied. Which the old Twitter did. The new Twitter does not.
Hopefully we can persuade the EU to restore free movement of a kind, as that is what most people miss. Not any of the rest
That'll be the last thing he'll do as that is the exact thing that chavscum.co.uk don't want.
Exactly. Customs Union and the Euro will happen here before the dreaded 'ability of people to freely move around the place' gets even the most tentative mention. Brexit was predicated on that being stopped. You cannot go back on that until every single person who voted for it is dead.
Free movement isn’t about the ability to visit and work in other countries. The issue is about the ability to move without a job offer and to have the same access to public funds as a local. There is a creative solution
Turns out the people that wrote that report on TwiX are these guys. The Centre For Countering Digital Hate
A left wing lobby group with links to Labour. Quelle surprise
“The Center for Countering Digital Hate has a Left bias.
A Nov. 2022 independent review by an AllSides reviewer found the group advocates for left causes, such as urging Google to #BreakUpWithBigOil and a campaign urging Google to label clinics that steer women away from abortion. Its blog ran headlines such as "Biden Administration’s Principles could help make the internet safer for all", ‘Don’t Say Gay or Trans’: Tech platforms enabled wave of online extremist anti-LGBTQ+ rhetoric following Florida legislation, new research finds," and "How the UK’s Online Safety Bill would help tackle racist hate online." At the time of review, The Center for Countering Digital Hate highlighted the following "popular topics" on its webpage: "Misogyny," "Anti-vaxx misinformation," "Antisemitism," and "Climate change misinformation." The organization focuses on countering "hate and disinformation" online, and takes a view of hate that typically aligns with views on the left.”
“Most of the people that died on October 7 were killed by Israeli soldiers”
Also the amount of flat out denial. “No that didn’t happen”. “You’re a pathetic Israeli shill and you’re lying”. “Total fabrication”
The irony is that the journalist, Matt Chorley, is a pretty feeble woke centre-lefty
I think there are quite a few left of centre types getting quite a shock just how anti-semitism isn't isolated to a few fringe people who Jezza calls friends, how overt it has become (its ok to chant a terrorist slogan in public, calling for the removal of all Jews from Middle East), after for long periods of time talking up the dangers of far right extremism.
One of the odder things is the double standards applied to thinking around 'river to the sea'. Jewish people, on the whole, find this a frightening phrase with implications of genocide. But the same people who police all manner of language, on the (often justified) basis that your intent isn't the point, it's how it lands with the people in question - don't seem to give a shit because, y'know, Jews.
I am certain that many (most?) people who chant it don't have genocidal intent. But that's not the point.
Do you thiink most Jews believe themselves to be Israelis?
Virtually every Jew I know is ardently pro Israel even if they despise the Israeli government of the day
They usually express it as: “after everything we’ve been through, we need one country we know is safe. Where we can always go if it comes to it”
In fact I’m not sure I’ve met a Jew that doesn’t feel this, tho they must exist. Perhaps you are one
They must be even more discombobulated recently on the one country we know is safe metric. Afaics Israel has held a view that they float in a sea of enemies who wish to destroy them and with whom they cannot negotiate for most of its (modern) history, which seems a weird kind of safety to my eyes.
“Most of the people that died on October 7 were killed by Israeli soldiers”
Also the amount of flat out denial. “No that didn’t happen”. “You’re a pathetic Israeli shill and you’re lying”. “Total fabrication”
The irony is that the journalist, Matt Chorley, is a pretty feeble woke centre-lefty
I think there are quite a few left of centre types getting quite a shock just how anti-semitism isn't isolated to a few fringe people who Jezza calls friends, how overt it has become (its ok to chant a terrorist slogan in public, calling for the removal of all Jews from Middle East), after for long periods of time talking up the dangers of far right extremism.
One of the odder things is the double standards applied to thinking around 'river to the sea'. Jewish people, on the whole, find this a frightening phrase with implications of genocide. But the same people who police all manner of language, on the (often justified) basis that your intent isn't the point, it's how it lands with the people in question - don't seem to give a shit because, y'know, Jews.
I am certain that many (most?) people who chant it don't have genocidal intent. But that's not the point.
Do you thiink most Jews believe themselves to be Israelis?
Virtually every Jew I know is ardently pro Israel even if they despise the Israeli government of the day
They usually express it as: “after everything we’ve been through, we need one country we know is safe. Where we can always go if it comes to it”
In fact I’m not sure I’ve met a Jew that doesn’t feel this, tho they must exist. Perhaps you are one
I bet you could count the number of Jews you know on fingers of one hand. I know several hundred. Some have an affinity with Israel some don't. The shallow level of understanding on this site is depressing particularly from the ones who are most vocal. I'd have thought someone as travelled as you are would have a more rounded view than you show here
Esther McVey has some work to do according to Ipsos.
People calling themselves 'woke' - 16% People calling themselves 'anti-woke' - 15% (1% less than the Suella Approvers!) People who don't care about such crap - 21% People who haven't a clue what any of it means - 44%
Just another sign why the culture wars thing is two groups only talking to themselves while the electorate scratch their heads at such lunacy
Asking the wrong question. Ask me if I’m woke and I’ll tell you I don’t care about silly labels. Ask me a series of questions on social issues and you can form a third party view (I’m very socially liberal for someone born in the early 80s, so usually called a fascist and a racist by today’s activists on things like trans rights and racism).
Elon Musk has openly declared himself a free speech absolutist. He wants to censor as little as possible on any side. So you will find anti semitism AND Islamophobia - as the article says
You can agree or disagree with his policy. But then, no one is forcing you to go on TwiX so what is your problem?
Except he's not so free speech when it comes to stuff about himself. And that's a big issue. You are either fully pro-free speech, and accept that means for everyone, and accept the problems that might occur. Or you do accept that there are limits to free speech, set fair and publicised rules, and try to apply those rules fairly.
Whereas too much of Twitter's policy seems to be "It must not upset Elon."
Well as the left kept telling us back when Twitter was left wing - Twitter is not a public body, it can do what it likes, stop whining. Same same. Now Elon owns it. He can do what he likes. Stop whining
Twitter was never 'left wing'. And I'm fine with their being rules; but those rules should at least try to be open and impartially applied. Which the old Twitter did. The new Twitter does not.
Oh good grief. It really really really really really was left wing. It censored topics at the request of the democrats - it didn’t do that for republicans
I don’t think the old owners of Twitter even deny it any more. Their argument was the same: it’s ours, we own it, we’re on the liberal left, get over it
“Most of the people that died on October 7 were killed by Israeli soldiers”
Also the amount of flat out denial. “No that didn’t happen”. “You’re a pathetic Israeli shill and you’re lying”. “Total fabrication”
The irony is that the journalist, Matt Chorley, is a pretty feeble woke centre-lefty
I think there are quite a few left of centre types getting quite a shock just how anti-semitism isn't isolated to a few fringe people who Jezza calls friends, how overt it has become (its ok to chant a terrorist slogan in public, calling for the removal of all Jews from Middle East), after for long periods of time talking up the dangers of far right extremism.
One of the odder things is the double standards applied to thinking around 'river to the sea'. Jewish people, on the whole, find this a frightening phrase with implications of genocide. But the same people who police all manner of language, on the (often justified) basis that your intent isn't the point, it's how it lands with the people in question - don't seem to give a shit because, y'know, Jews.
I am certain that many (most?) people who chant it don't have genocidal intent. But that's not the point.
Do you thiink most Jews believe themselves to be Israelis?
Virtually every Jew I know is ardently pro Israel even if they despise the Israeli government of the day
They usually express it as: “after everything we’ve been through, we need one country we know is safe. Where we can always go if it comes to it”
In fact I’m not sure I’ve met a Jew that doesn’t feel this, tho they must exist. Perhaps you are one
They are the ones that Jezza always finds to call friends and hold them up as example of why he definitely can't be an antisemite.
I recall a conversation with a Jewish woman who told me that the claims of antisemitism against Corbyn were a smear, so they certainly do exist.
Oh they exist. But they are a fringe minority. There was the weird campaign group for Jezza that was basically Jews for Jezza who claimed it was all a witch-hunt.
There are of course fringe Jewish figures in Israel who say Israel shouldn't exist and I don't mean the ultra-orthodox ones who don't believe it should exist in current form as not religious enough.
Honestly I don't think Jezza is an antisemite in thought or intent. But he is so blinkered by 'the struggle' that he doesn't see the Jew-hating fellow travelling that it allows to flourish.
That has sort of been my view, he is so dense and so firm in his oppressor vs oppressed worldview is correct, he doesn't see any anti-Jewish stuff. But he really stretches that belief at times when he absolutely won't accept or acknowledge blatant truths.
For ages on here I called Corbyn a 'passive' anti-Semite - in fact, I think I was the first poster to use the term. Then something happened - it might have been the mural - and I realised that no, he was not passive. He was active. He's malign, as that interview clip today showed.
Esther McVey has some work to do according to Ipsos.
People calling themselves 'woke' - 16% People calling themselves 'anti-woke' - 15% (1% less than the Suella Approvers!) People who don't care about such crap - 21% People who haven't a clue what any of it means - 44%
Just another sign why the culture wars thing is two groups only talking to themselves while the electorate scratch their heads at such lunacy
“Just another sign why the culture wars thing is two groups only talking to themselves while the electorate scratch their heads at such lunacy”
But this can be said of any political topic. Half the population has an IQ under 100 so they’re too stupid to even grasp the issues anyway
Another 35% are so busy getting by and feeding their families they don’t pay any attention to politics outside elections: especially abstract concepts like Wokeness
It is ALWAYS an elite 15% that has these debates. People with the leisure, brains, and motivation to get involved. Us guys
Elon Musk has openly declared himself a free speech absolutist. He wants to censor as little as possible on any side. So you will find anti semitism AND Islamophobia - as the article says
You can agree or disagree with his policy. But then, no one is forcing you to go on TwiX so what is your problem?
Except he's not so free speech when it comes to stuff about himself. And that's a big issue. You are either fully pro-free speech, and accept that means for everyone, and accept the problems that might occur. Or you do accept that there are limits to free speech, set fair and publicised rules, and try to apply those rules fairly.
Whereas too much of Twitter's policy seems to be "It must not upset Elon."
Well as the left kept telling us back when Twitter was left wing - Twitter is not a public body, it can do what it likes, stop whining. Same same. Now Elon owns it. He can do what he likes. Stop whining
Twitter was never 'left wing'. And I'm fine with their being rules; but those rules should at least try to be open and impartially applied. Which the old Twitter did. The new Twitter does not.
Oh good grief. It really really really really really was left wing. It censored topics at the request of the democrats - it didn’t do that for republicans
I don’t think the old owners of Twitter even deny it any more. Their argument was the same: it’s ours, we own it, we’re on the liberal left, get over it
LOL. You've been reading the 'Twitter files', haven't you? Or more likely just reading what somebody's said about it. Hint: it ain't the truth. Or at least, the whole truth.
“Most of the people that died on October 7 were killed by Israeli soldiers”
Also the amount of flat out denial. “No that didn’t happen”. “You’re a pathetic Israeli shill and you’re lying”. “Total fabrication”
The irony is that the journalist, Matt Chorley, is a pretty feeble woke centre-lefty
I think there are quite a few left of centre types getting quite a shock just how anti-semitism isn't isolated to a few fringe people who Jezza calls friends, how overt it has become (its ok to chant a terrorist slogan in public, calling for the removal of all Jews from Middle East), after for long periods of time talking up the dangers of far right extremism.
One of the odder things is the double standards applied to thinking around 'river to the sea'. Jewish people, on the whole, find this a frightening phrase with implications of genocide. But the same people who police all manner of language, on the (often justified) basis that your intent isn't the point, it's how it lands with the people in question - don't seem to give a shit because, y'know, Jews.
I am certain that many (most?) people who chant it don't have genocidal intent. But that's not the point.
Do you thiink most Jews believe themselves to be Israelis?
Virtually every Jew I know is ardently pro Israel even if they despise the Israeli government of the day
They usually express it as: “after everything we’ve been through, we need one country we know is safe. Where we can always go if it comes to it”
In fact I’m not sure I’ve met a Jew that doesn’t feel this, tho they must exist. Perhaps you are one
They are the ones that Jezza always finds to call friends and hold them up as example of why he definitely can't be an antisemite.
I recall a conversation with a Jewish woman who told me that the claims of antisemitism against Corbyn were a smear, so they certainly do exist.
Oh they exist. But they are a fringe minority. There was the weird campaign group for Jezza that was basically Jews for Jezza who claimed it was all a witch-hunt.
There are of course fringe Jewish figures in Israel who say Israel shouldn't exist and I don't mean the ultra-orthodox ones who don't believe it should exist in current form as not religious enough.
Honestly I don't think Jezza is an antisemite in thought or intent. But he is so blinkered by 'the struggle' that he doesn't see the Jew-hating fellow travelling that it allows to flourish.
That has sort of been my view, he is so dense and so firm in his oppressor vs oppressed worldview is correct, he doesn't see any anti-Jewish stuff. But he really stretches that belief at times when he absolutely won't accept or acknowledge blatant truths.
For ages on here I called Corbyn a 'passive' anti-Semite - in fact, I think I was the first poster to use the term. Then something happened - it might have been the mural - and I realised that no, he was not passive. He was active. He's malign, as that interview clip today showed.
Yes I’ve made the same journey. Used to think he was just dumb. Now I think he is dumb AND anti semitic. Finds Jews distasteful - rich, manipulative, colonialist, white, capitalist, often American, anti-Muslim - in his eyes
Hopefully we can persuade the EU to restore free movement of a kind, as that is what most people miss. Not any of the rest
That'll be the last thing he'll do as that is the exact thing that chavscum.co.uk don't want.
Exactly. Customs Union and the Euro will happen here before the dreaded 'ability of people to freely move around the place' gets even the most tentative mention. Brexit was predicated on that being stopped. You cannot go back on that until every single person who voted for it is dead.
Free movement isn’t about the ability to visit and work in other countries. The issue is about the ability to move without a job offer and to have the same access to public funds as a local. There is a creative solution
Mutual FoM on a "no recourse to public funds except healthcare" basis might fly. I doubt it though.
“Most of the people that died on October 7 were killed by Israeli soldiers”
Also the amount of flat out denial. “No that didn’t happen”. “You’re a pathetic Israeli shill and you’re lying”. “Total fabrication”
The irony is that the journalist, Matt Chorley, is a pretty feeble woke centre-lefty
I think there are quite a few left of centre types getting quite a shock just how anti-semitism isn't isolated to a few fringe people who Jezza calls friends, how overt it has become (its ok to chant a terrorist slogan in public, calling for the removal of all Jews from Middle East), after for long periods of time talking up the dangers of far right extremism.
One of the odder things is the double standards applied to thinking around 'river to the sea'. Jewish people, on the whole, find this a frightening phrase with implications of genocide. But the same people who police all manner of language, on the (often justified) basis that your intent isn't the point, it's how it lands with the people in question - don't seem to give a shit because, y'know, Jews.
I am certain that many (most?) people who chant it don't have genocidal intent. But that's not the point.
Do you thiink most Jews believe themselves to be Israelis?
Virtually every Jew I know is ardently pro Israel even if they despise the Israeli government of the day
They usually express it as: “after everything we’ve been through, we need one country we know is safe. Where we can always go if it comes to it”
In fact I’m not sure I’ve met a Jew that doesn’t feel this, tho they must exist. Perhaps you are one
They must be even more discombobulated recently on the one country we know is safe metric. Afaics Israel has held a view that they float in a sea of enemies who wish to destroy them and with whom they cannot negotiate for most of its (modern) history, which seems a weird kind of safety to my eyes.
You can't see very far then. Perhaps out to Auchtermuchty if you squint.
This whole episode came about on the eve of and arguably on account of an imminent agreement between Israel and Saudi.
Elon Musk has openly declared himself a free speech absolutist. He wants to censor as little as possible on any side. So you will find anti semitism AND Islamophobia - as the article says
You can agree or disagree with his policy. But then, no one is forcing you to go on TwiX so what is your problem?
Except he's not so free speech when it comes to stuff about himself. And that's a big issue. You are either fully pro-free speech, and accept that means for everyone, and accept the problems that might occur. Or you do accept that there are limits to free speech, set fair and publicised rules, and try to apply those rules fairly.
Whereas too much of Twitter's policy seems to be "It must not upset Elon."
Well as the left kept telling us back when Twitter was left wing - Twitter is not a public body, it can do what it likes, stop whining. Same same. Now Elon owns it. He can do what he likes. Stop whining
Twitter was never 'left wing'. And I'm fine with their being rules; but those rules should at least try to be open and impartially applied. Which the old Twitter did. The new Twitter does not.
Oh good grief. It really really really really really was left wing. It censored topics at the request of the democrats - it didn’t do that for republicans
I don’t think the old owners of Twitter even deny it any more. Their argument was the same: it’s ours, we own it, we’re on the liberal left, get over it
LOL. You've been reading the 'Twitter files', haven't you? Or more likely just reading what somebody's said about it. Hint: it ain't the truth. Or at least, the whole truth.
Twitter was so left wing lefties used to gleefully celebrate it. From 2021
“The refrain “Twitter is not real life” is meant to be a criticism of the platform, and those who use it, as overly liberal and activist and not representative of everyday Americans. But I always think: “No, it’s not — and thank God for that.” Twitter has filled a huge void for people such as me who prefer more left-wing politicians such as Sens. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) and Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.) over more moderate Democrats and want to see the country move aggressively in a more progressive direction.”
“In fact, Twitter is in many ways America’s true left-wing news outlet. But the benefits of Twitter for the left also come with some costs”
Sunak might appoint Claire Coutinho as CotE before the next election in order to prevent Rachel Reeves from being the first female holder of the office, according to a pundit on Newsnight last night. Plausible scenario.
On Topic: As with many late night shenanigans this Cameron stunt of Sunak’s looks different in the cold light of the morning after. This one has unravelled particularly quickly for me. It’s another pasty tax but worse. Ok, it grabbed the headlines (good), pissed off the loony right (good), might end up saving a few seats here and there in the blue wall (good), but when you stop and really think about what he’s gone and done here, drafted in the last PM but three to be his actual Foreign Secretary, it’s ludicrous!
Terrific for Dave of course, he’s back feeling buzzy and important, big cheeses will be taking his calls again, but what does it say about the state of the Conservative Party? It says they are utterly bereft of ideas, talent and direction. The well is dry. We knew that anyway but this scrawls it in magic marker on a placard and hangs it round their neck for all to see, just in case anybody was in any doubt.
And Rishi. What does it say about him? Again, all negative. A heartbeat ago at the party conference he was defining himself as the ‘change’ we needed after decades of failed government. Now he turns for succour to the bloke who was in power longer than any other for the most recent of those decades. So it was all bollox then. His leader speech at his party conference was all bollox. Truly risible. He seems to have given up entirely on defining himself and the government he (supposedly?) leads.
A good post but after some of the vox pops I'vr been listening to I've come to the concusion British voters are pretty simple folk and also pretty racist. A Home Secretary leading an army of skinheads to the cenotaph is not to everyone the repulsive sight you or I might suppose it to be.
I fear the further we get from the EU the further we're losing our civilising influences. Cameron's appointment looked like an attempt to hold back the tide but the appointment of Esther McVey showed he was just backing his horse both ways.
I wish I thought Labour would help but they won't. Starmer is every bit as cynical as Sunak. They're both after the lowest common denominator and they'll do whatever is required to get them
Is this racist country the same one I know in which 30% of babies are born to a mother who was herself born outside the UK and is among the top choices to get to, if they can, for migrants and refugees, including those from Islamic countries, where there isn't a single MP from an extreme right wing party, whose last three Home Secretaries have been BAME and whose PM is Hindu?
Mrs J had been over here for well over twenty years, and has never had any racist abuse directed at her. (*) On our first night on a trip through Germany, she suffered racial abuse.
I know "the grass is always greener," but in Roger's case, I think he just hates the UK.
(*) Someone spat at her once in Oxford Street, but she had no idea if that was because she is foreign, a woman, or the guy was just an @sshat. Or all three...
The things that Roger says about the UK and France make me wonder where he's actually spent his adult life.
Sunak might appoint Claire Coutinho as CotE before the next election in order to prevent Rachel Reeves from being the first female holder of the office, according to a pundit on Newsnight last night. Plausible scenario.
The tories have come late to identity politics but the fuckscum have really committed to it having tasted its delights.
Esther McVey has some work to do according to Ipsos.
People calling themselves 'woke' - 16% People calling themselves 'anti-woke' - 15% (1% less than the Suella Approvers!) People who don't care about such crap - 21% People who haven't a clue what any of it means - 44%
Just another sign why the culture wars thing is two groups only talking to themselves while the electorate scratch their heads at such lunacy
“Just another sign why the culture wars thing is two groups only talking to themselves while the electorate scratch their heads at such lunacy”
But this can be said of any political topic. Half the population has an IQ under 100 so they’re too stupid to even grasp the issues anyway
Another 35% are so busy getting by and feeding their families they don’t pay any attention to politics outside elections: especially abstract concepts like Wokeness
It is ALWAYS an elite 15% that has these debates. People with the leisure, brains, and motivation to get involved. Us guys
I don't think that "politics" is so innately complex that it is only intelligible to those with above-median intelligence. That seems a rather elitist view, but also untrue. I think the reality is that a lot of people can see that the woke/anti-woke "debate" is largely a distraction from the bread and butter issues that matter for most people. Unless you are a member of a minority group facing discrimination in your day to day life, the issue is irrelevant and probably the poster child of a "luxury belief" on both sides.
Good grief. Debbie Stapel, PO Investigator, has just stated openly that the PO and Fujitsu should have acknowledged the Horizon system was faulty, and that it was possible to manually alter branch accounts remotely with Subpostmasters knowing.
They knew this, but they proceeded with prosecutions anyway, and didn't advise the defence lawyers of these obvious and catastrophic flaws.
Surely on that evidence alone, they have to be jailed? The only questions remaining is who exactly, how many and for how long?
Sunak might appoint Claire Coutinho as CotE before the next election in order to prevent Rachel Reeves from being the first female holder of the office, according to a pundit on Newsnight last night. Plausible scenario.
I think that is more than likely and probably by the next budget
Hunt has to present the Autumn Statement next week then his job is really done
On Topic: As with many late night shenanigans this Cameron stunt of Sunak’s looks different in the cold light of the morning after. This one has unravelled particularly quickly for me. It’s another pasty tax but worse. Ok, it grabbed the headlines (good), pissed off the loony right (good), might end up saving a few seats here and there in the blue wall (good), but when you stop and really think about what he’s gone and done here, drafted in the last PM but three to be his actual Foreign Secretary, it’s ludicrous!
Terrific for Dave of course, he’s back feeling buzzy and important, big cheeses will be taking his calls again, but what does it say about the state of the Conservative Party? It says they are utterly bereft of ideas, talent and direction. The well is dry. We knew that anyway but this scrawls it in magic marker on a placard and hangs it round their neck for all to see, just in case anybody was in any doubt.
And Rishi. What does it say about him? Again, all negative. A heartbeat ago at the party conference he was defining himself as the ‘change’ we needed after decades of failed government. Now he turns for succour to the bloke who was in power longer than any other for the most recent of those decades. So it was all bollox then. His leader speech at his party conference was all bollox. Truly risible. He seems to have given up entirely on defining himself and the government he (supposedly?) leads.
A good post but after some of the vox pops I'vr been listening to I've come to the concusion British voters are pretty simple folk and also pretty racist. A Home Secretary leading an army of skinheads to the cenotaph is not to everyone the repulsive sight you or I might suppose it to be.
I fear the further we get from the EU the further we're losing our civilising influences. Cameron's appointment looked like an attempt to hold back the tide but the appointment of Esther McVey showed he was just backing his horse both ways.
I wish I thought Labour would help but they won't. Starmer is every bit as cynical as Sunak. They're both after the lowest common denominator and they'll do whatever is required to get them
Is this racist country the same one I know in which 30% of babies are born to a mother who was herself born outside the UK and is among the top choices to get to, if they can, for migrants and refugees, including those from Islamic countries, where there isn't a single MP from an extreme right wing party, whose last three Home Secretaries have been BAME and whose PM is Hindu?
Perhaps the biggest silver lining from Le Pen winning the next French Presidential election is Roger having to explain himself on here why the UK would still be more racist than a Le Pen-led France.
Elon Musk has openly declared himself a free speech absolutist. He wants to censor as little as possible on any side. So you will find anti semitism AND Islamophobia - as the article says
You can agree or disagree with his policy. But then, no one is forcing you to go on TwiX so what is your problem?
Except he's not so free speech when it comes to stuff about himself. And that's a big issue. You are either fully pro-free speech, and accept that means for everyone, and accept the problems that might occur. Or you do accept that there are limits to free speech, set fair and publicised rules, and try to apply those rules fairly.
Whereas too much of Twitter's policy seems to be "It must not upset Elon."
Well as the left kept telling us back when Twitter was left wing - Twitter is not a public body, it can do what it likes, stop whining. Same same. Now Elon owns it. He can do what he likes. Stop whining
Twitter was never 'left wing'. And I'm fine with their being rules; but those rules should at least try to be open and impartially applied. Which the old Twitter did. The new Twitter does not.
Oh good grief. It really really really really really was left wing. It censored topics at the request of the democrats - it didn’t do that for republicans
I don’t think the old owners of Twitter even deny it any more. Their argument was the same: it’s ours, we own it, we’re on the liberal left, get over it
LOL. You've been reading the 'Twitter files', haven't you? Or more likely just reading what somebody's said about it. Hint: it ain't the truth. Or at least, the whole truth.
Twitter was so left wing lefties used to gleefully celebrate it. From 2021
“The refrain “Twitter is not real life” is meant to be a criticism of the platform, and those who use it, as overly liberal and activist and not representative of everyday Americans. But I always think: “No, it’s not — and thank God for that.” Twitter has filled a huge void for people such as me who prefer more left-wing politicians such as Sens. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) and Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.) over more moderate Democrats and want to see the country move aggressively in a more progressive direction.”
“In fact, Twitter is in many ways America’s true left-wing news outlet. But the benefits of Twitter for the left also come with some costs”
That's a different thing though, isn't it? Yes, lefties might have been more enamoured of Twitter than people on the right. But that hasn't got anything to do with censorship or free speech and hate speech that is banned.
If more hate speech is banned on the right; perhaps that's because the right (in the US) is filled with people who like to provoke using hate speech?
“Most of the people that died on October 7 were killed by Israeli soldiers”
Also the amount of flat out denial. “No that didn’t happen”. “You’re a pathetic Israeli shill and you’re lying”. “Total fabrication”
The irony is that the journalist, Matt Chorley, is a pretty feeble woke centre-lefty
I think there are quite a few left of centre types getting quite a shock just how anti-semitism isn't isolated to a few fringe people who Jezza calls friends, how overt it has become (its ok to chant a terrorist slogan in public, calling for the removal of all Jews from Middle East), after for long periods of time talking up the dangers of far right extremism.
One of the odder things is the double standards applied to thinking around 'river to the sea'. Jewish people, on the whole, find this a frightening phrase with implications of genocide. But the same people who police all manner of language, on the (often justified) basis that your intent isn't the point, it's how it lands with the people in question - don't seem to give a shit because, y'know, Jews.
I am certain that many (most?) people who chant it don't have genocidal intent. But that's not the point.
Do you thiink most Jews believe themselves to be Israelis?
Virtually every Jew I know is ardently pro Israel even if they despise the Israeli government of the day
They usually express it as: “after everything we’ve been through, we need one country we know is safe. Where we can always go if it comes to it”
In fact I’m not sure I’ve met a Jew that doesn’t feel this, tho they must exist. Perhaps you are one
They must be even more discombobulated recently on the one country we know is safe metric. Afaics Israel has held a view that they float in a sea of enemies who wish to destroy them and with whom they cannot negotiate for most of its (modern) history, which seems a weird kind of safety to my eyes.
You can't see very far then. Perhaps out to Auchtermuchty if you squint.
This whole episode came about on the eve of and arguably on account of an imminent agreement between Israel and Saudi.
Invoke the mighty Muchty as your derisory example of the archytpical Scottish one-horse town if you like, but how many places of equivalent size can claim not one but two celebrated contributions to the musical canon?
“Most of the people that died on October 7 were killed by Israeli soldiers”
Also the amount of flat out denial. “No that didn’t happen”. “You’re a pathetic Israeli shill and you’re lying”. “Total fabrication”
The irony is that the journalist, Matt Chorley, is a pretty feeble woke centre-lefty
I think there are quite a few left of centre types getting quite a shock just how anti-semitism isn't isolated to a few fringe people who Jezza calls friends, how overt it has become (its ok to chant a terrorist slogan in public, calling for the removal of all Jews from Middle East), after for long periods of time talking up the dangers of far right extremism.
One of the odder things is the double standards applied to thinking around 'river to the sea'. Jewish people, on the whole, find this a frightening phrase with implications of genocide. But the same people who police all manner of language, on the (often justified) basis that your intent isn't the point, it's how it lands with the people in question - don't seem to give a shit because, y'know, Jews.
I am certain that many (most?) people who chant it don't have genocidal intent. But that's not the point.
Do you thiink most Jews believe themselves to be Israelis?
Virtually every Jew I know is ardently pro Israel even if they despise the Israeli government of the day
They usually express it as: “after everything we’ve been through, we need one country we know is safe. Where we can always go if it comes to it”
In fact I’m not sure I’ve met a Jew that doesn’t feel this, tho they must exist. Perhaps you are one
They must be even more discombobulated recently on the one country we know is safe metric. Afaics Israel has held a view that they float in a sea of enemies who wish to destroy them and with whom they cannot negotiate for most of its (modern) history, which seems a weird kind of safety to my eyes.
You can't see very far then. Perhaps out to Auchtermuchty if you squint.
This whole episode came about on the eve of and arguably on account of an imminent agreement between Israel and Saudi.
Thanks, I needed one of the giant brain PB geo straegists to point out that something came about 'arguably' on account of something else.
Elon Musk has openly declared himself a free speech absolutist. He wants to censor as little as possible on any side. So you will find anti semitism AND Islamophobia - as the article says
You can agree or disagree with his policy. But then, no one is forcing you to go on TwiX so what is your problem?
Except he's not so free speech when it comes to stuff about himself. And that's a big issue. You are either fully pro-free speech, and accept that means for everyone, and accept the problems that might occur. Or you do accept that there are limits to free speech, set fair and publicised rules, and try to apply those rules fairly.
Whereas too much of Twitter's policy seems to be "It must not upset Elon."
Well as the left kept telling us back when Twitter was left wing - Twitter is not a public body, it can do what it likes, stop whining. Same same. Now Elon owns it. He can do what he likes. Stop whining
Twitter was never 'left wing'. And I'm fine with their being rules; but those rules should at least try to be open and impartially applied. Which the old Twitter did. The new Twitter does not.
Oh good grief. It really really really really really was left wing. It censored topics at the request of the democrats - it didn’t do that for republicans
I don’t think the old owners of Twitter even deny it any more. Their argument was the same: it’s ours, we own it, we’re on the liberal left, get over it
LOL. You've been reading the 'Twitter files', haven't you? Or more likely just reading what somebody's said about it. Hint: it ain't the truth. Or at least, the whole truth.
Twitter was so left wing lefties used to gleefully celebrate it. From 2021
“The refrain “Twitter is not real life” is meant to be a criticism of the platform, and those who use it, as overly liberal and activist and not representative of everyday Americans. But I always think: “No, it’s not — and thank God for that.” Twitter has filled a huge void for people such as me who prefer more left-wing politicians such as Sens. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) and Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.) over more moderate Democrats and want to see the country move aggressively in a more progressive direction.”
“In fact, Twitter is in many ways America’s true left-wing news outlet. But the benefits of Twitter for the left also come with some costs”
That's a different thing though, isn't it? Yes, lefties might have been more enamoured of Twitter than people on the right. But that hasn't got anything to do with censorship or free speech and hate speech that is banned.
If more hate speech is banned on the right; perhaps that's because the right (in the US) is filled with people who like to provoke using hate speech?
Twitter was a left wing space before Musk. This is so obvious and so undeniable any argument about it is absurd. So I’m gonna drop it, you carry on if you wish
Big day tommorow with Rwanda and the inflation numbers. I suppose with both if one goes the Gov'ts way and the other doesn't, they can pump one up on the morning rounds to try and suffocate the other.
Big day tommorow with Rwanda and the inflation numbers. I suppose with both if one goes the Gov'ts way and the other doesn't, they can pump one up on the morning rounds to try and suffocate the other.
Elon Musk has openly declared himself a free speech absolutist. He wants to censor as little as possible on any side. So you will find anti semitism AND Islamophobia - as the article says
You can agree or disagree with his policy. But then, no one is forcing you to go on TwiX so what is your problem?
Except he's not so free speech when it comes to stuff about himself. And that's a big issue. You are either fully pro-free speech, and accept that means for everyone, and accept the problems that might occur. Or you do accept that there are limits to free speech, set fair and publicised rules, and try to apply those rules fairly.
Whereas too much of Twitter's policy seems to be "It must not upset Elon."
Well as the left kept telling us back when Twitter was left wing - Twitter is not a public body, it can do what it likes, stop whining. Same same. Now Elon owns it. He can do what he likes. Stop whining
First, it wasn't 'left wing' in any real sense, though it might have excluded some nutters. Second, why shouldn't we criticise how he runs it ? He (more or less) owns it, but that's no reason for giving him a pass for being a tw@t, on the numerous occasions he is.
“Most of the people that died on October 7 were killed by Israeli soldiers”
Also the amount of flat out denial. “No that didn’t happen”. “You’re a pathetic Israeli shill and you’re lying”. “Total fabrication”
The irony is that the journalist, Matt Chorley, is a pretty feeble woke centre-lefty
I think there are quite a few left of centre types getting quite a shock just how anti-semitism isn't isolated to a few fringe people who Jezza calls friends, how overt it has become (its ok to chant a terrorist slogan in public, calling for the removal of all Jews from Middle East), after for long periods of time talking up the dangers of far right extremism.
One of the odder things is the double standards applied to thinking around 'river to the sea'. Jewish people, on the whole, find this a frightening phrase with implications of genocide. But the same people who police all manner of language, on the (often justified) basis that your intent isn't the point, it's how it lands with the people in question - don't seem to give a shit because, y'know, Jews.
I am certain that many (most?) people who chant it don't have genocidal intent. But that's not the point.
Do you thiink most Jews believe themselves to be Israelis?
Virtually every Jew I know is ardently pro Israel even if they despise the Israeli government of the day
They usually express it as: “after everything we’ve been through, we need one country we know is safe. Where we can always go if it comes to it”
In fact I’m not sure I’ve met a Jew that doesn’t feel this, tho they must exist. Perhaps you are one
They must be even more discombobulated recently on the one country we know is safe metric. Afaics Israel has held a view that they float in a sea of enemies who wish to destroy them and with whom they cannot negotiate for most of its (modern) history, which seems a weird kind of safety to my eyes.
You can't see very far then. Perhaps out to Auchtermuchty if you squint.
This whole episode came about on the eve of and arguably on account of an imminent agreement between Israel and Saudi.
Thanks, I needed one of the giant brain PB geo straegists to point out that something came about 'arguably' on account of something else.
“Most of the people that died on October 7 were killed by Israeli soldiers”
Also the amount of flat out denial. “No that didn’t happen”. “You’re a pathetic Israeli shill and you’re lying”. “Total fabrication”
The irony is that the journalist, Matt Chorley, is a pretty feeble woke centre-lefty
I think there are quite a few left of centre types getting quite a shock just how anti-semitism isn't isolated to a few fringe people who Jezza calls friends, how overt it has become (its ok to chant a terrorist slogan in public, calling for the removal of all Jews from Middle East), after for long periods of time talking up the dangers of far right extremism.
One of the odder things is the double standards applied to thinking around 'river to the sea'. Jewish people, on the whole, find this a frightening phrase with implications of genocide. But the same people who police all manner of language, on the (often justified) basis that your intent isn't the point, it's how it lands with the people in question - don't seem to give a shit because, y'know, Jews.
I am certain that many (most?) people who chant it don't have genocidal intent. But that's not the point.
Do you thiink most Jews believe themselves to be Israelis?
Something like 40% of Jews live in Israel. Some of the Jews who live elsewhere will also think of themselves as Israeli (I live in Ireland and I think of myself as British).
So, yeah, seems likely that most Jews believe themselves to be Israelis.
Big day tommorow with Rwanda and the inflation numbers. I suppose with both if one goes the Gov'ts way and the other doesn't, they can pump one up on the morning rounds to try and suffocate the other.
Which way is good for the government on Rwanda?
Interesting question. In the medium term the collapse of this absurd, discriminatory and immoral policy would, of course, be a public good. In the short term one of the very few policies they espouse as a government will be in total chaos. Thankfully the fall guy for this mess rather picks herself.
“Most of the people that died on October 7 were killed by Israeli soldiers”
Also the amount of flat out denial. “No that didn’t happen”. “You’re a pathetic Israeli shill and you’re lying”. “Total fabrication”
The irony is that the journalist, Matt Chorley, is a pretty feeble woke centre-lefty
I think there are quite a few left of centre types getting quite a shock just how anti-semitism isn't isolated to a few fringe people who Jezza calls friends, how overt it has become (its ok to chant a terrorist slogan in public, calling for the removal of all Jews from Middle East), after for long periods of time talking up the dangers of far right extremism.
One of the odder things is the double standards applied to thinking around 'river to the sea'. Jewish people, on the whole, find this a frightening phrase with implications of genocide. But the same people who police all manner of language, on the (often justified) basis that your intent isn't the point, it's how it lands with the people in question - don't seem to give a shit because, y'know, Jews.
I am certain that many (most?) people who chant it don't have genocidal intent. But that's not the point.
Do you thiink most Jews believe themselves to be Israelis?
Virtually every Jew I know is ardently pro Israel even if they despise the Israeli government of the day
They usually express it as: “after everything we’ve been through, we need one country we know is safe. Where we can always go if it comes to it”
In fact I’m not sure I’ve met a Jew that doesn’t feel this, tho they must exist. Perhaps you are one
They must be even more discombobulated recently on the one country we know is safe metric. Afaics Israel has held a view that they float in a sea of enemies who wish to destroy them and with whom they cannot negotiate for most of its (modern) history, which seems a weird kind of safety to my eyes.
You can't see very far then. Perhaps out to Auchtermuchty if you squint.
This whole episode came about on the eve of and arguably on account of an imminent agreement between Israel and Saudi.
Invoke the mighty Muchty as your derisory example of the archytpical Scottish one-horse town if you like, but how many places of equivalent size can claim not one but two celebrated contributions to the musical canon?
You are slightly proving the point because you probably need to walk 500 miles if you start out from Auchtermuchty to get anywhere of note.
Sunak might appoint Claire Coutinho as CotE before the next election in order to prevent Rachel Reeves from being the first female holder of the office, according to a pundit on Newsnight last night. Plausible scenario.
If that's true, then it would appear that Sunak thinks the Tories have absolutely no chance of winning the GE.
Good grief. Debbie Stapel, PO Investigator, has just stated openly that the PO and Fujitsu should have acknowledged the Horizon system was faulty, and that it was possible to manually alter branch accounts remotely with Subpostmasters knowing.
They knew this, but they proceeded with prosecutions anyway, and didn't advise the defence lawyers of these obvious and catastrophic flaws.
Surely on that evidence alone, they have to be jailed? The only questions remaining is who exactly, how many and for how long?
They've certainly opened themselves to being sued for malicious prosecution, without any credible defence.
Criminal prosecutions for conspiracy to pervert the course of justice are up the the DPP.
“Most of the people that died on October 7 were killed by Israeli soldiers”
Also the amount of flat out denial. “No that didn’t happen”. “You’re a pathetic Israeli shill and you’re lying”. “Total fabrication”
The irony is that the journalist, Matt Chorley, is a pretty feeble woke centre-lefty
I think there are quite a few left of centre types getting quite a shock just how anti-semitism isn't isolated to a few fringe people who Jezza calls friends, how overt it has become (its ok to chant a terrorist slogan in public, calling for the removal of all Jews from Middle East), after for long periods of time talking up the dangers of far right extremism.
One of the odder things is the double standards applied to thinking around 'river to the sea'. Jewish people, on the whole, find this a frightening phrase with implications of genocide. But the same people who police all manner of language, on the (often justified) basis that your intent isn't the point, it's how it lands with the people in question - don't seem to give a shit because, y'know, Jews.
I am certain that many (most?) people who chant it don't have genocidal intent. But that's not the point.
Do you thiink most Jews believe themselves to be Israelis?
Virtually every Jew I know is ardently pro Israel even if they despise the Israeli government of the day
They usually express it as: “after everything we’ve been through, we need one country we know is safe. Where we can always go if it comes to it”
In fact I’m not sure I’ve met a Jew that doesn’t feel this, tho they must exist. Perhaps you are one
They must be even more discombobulated recently on the one country we know is safe metric. Afaics Israel has held a view that they float in a sea of enemies who wish to destroy them and with whom they cannot negotiate for most of its (modern) history, which seems a weird kind of safety to my eyes.
You can't see very far then. Perhaps out to Auchtermuchty if you squint.
This whole episode came about on the eve of and arguably on account of an imminent agreement between Israel and Saudi.
Invoke the mighty Muchty as your derisory example of the archytpical Scottish one-horse town if you like, but how many places of equivalent size can claim not one but two celebrated contributions to the musical canon?
You are slightly proving the point because you probably need to walk 500 miles if you start out from Auchtermuchty to get anywhere of note.
Can you please stop this conversation? It's making me sad that I can't go walking in Scotland atm.
“Most of the people that died on October 7 were killed by Israeli soldiers”
Also the amount of flat out denial. “No that didn’t happen”. “You’re a pathetic Israeli shill and you’re lying”. “Total fabrication”
The irony is that the journalist, Matt Chorley, is a pretty feeble woke centre-lefty
I think there are quite a few left of centre types getting quite a shock just how anti-semitism isn't isolated to a few fringe people who Jezza calls friends, how overt it has become (its ok to chant a terrorist slogan in public, calling for the removal of all Jews from Middle East), after for long periods of time talking up the dangers of far right extremism.
One of the odder things is the double standards applied to thinking around 'river to the sea'. Jewish people, on the whole, find this a frightening phrase with implications of genocide. But the same people who police all manner of language, on the (often justified) basis that your intent isn't the point, it's how it lands with the people in question - don't seem to give a shit because, y'know, Jews.
I am certain that many (most?) people who chant it don't have genocidal intent. But that's not the point.
Do you thiink most Jews believe themselves to be Israelis?
Virtually every Jew I know is ardently pro Israel even if they despise the Israeli government of the day
They usually express it as: “after everything we’ve been through, we need one country we know is safe. Where we can always go if it comes to it”
In fact I’m not sure I’ve met a Jew that doesn’t feel this, tho they must exist. Perhaps you are one
They must be even more discombobulated recently on the one country we know is safe metric. Afaics Israel has held a view that they float in a sea of enemies who wish to destroy them and with whom they cannot negotiate for most of its (modern) history, which seems a weird kind of safety to my eyes.
You can't see very far then. Perhaps out to Auchtermuchty if you squint.
This whole episode came about on the eve of and arguably on account of an imminent agreement between Israel and Saudi.
Thanks, I needed one of the giant brain PB geo straegists to point out that something came about 'arguably' on account of something else.
“Most of the people that died on October 7 were killed by Israeli soldiers”
Also the amount of flat out denial. “No that didn’t happen”. “You’re a pathetic Israeli shill and you’re lying”. “Total fabrication”
The irony is that the journalist, Matt Chorley, is a pretty feeble woke centre-lefty
I think there are quite a few left of centre types getting quite a shock just how anti-semitism isn't isolated to a few fringe people who Jezza calls friends, how overt it has become (its ok to chant a terrorist slogan in public, calling for the removal of all Jews from Middle East), after for long periods of time talking up the dangers of far right extremism.
One of the odder things is the double standards applied to thinking around 'river to the sea'. Jewish people, on the whole, find this a frightening phrase with implications of genocide. But the same people who police all manner of language, on the (often justified) basis that your intent isn't the point, it's how it lands with the people in question - don't seem to give a shit because, y'know, Jews.
I am certain that many (most?) people who chant it don't have genocidal intent. But that's not the point.
Do you thiink most Jews believe themselves to be Israelis?
Something like 40% of Jews live in Israel. Some of the Jews who live elsewhere will also think of themselves as Israeli (I live in Ireland and I think of myself as British).
So, yeah, seems likely that most Jews believe themselves to be Israelis.
Wikipedia has, with caveats, 30% of the Jewish population of the world living in Israel, with 51% living in the US. Although it depends on how you define who counts. On those numbers, it seems unlikely that most Jews believe themselves to be Israelis.
Everyone loves diversity and inclusion, until you stick up for the Palestinians. According to an Op-Ed in the Guardian. A paper which is overwhelmingly pro-Gazan.
How quickly the massacre of the 7th October is being forgotten.
“Most of the people that died on October 7 were killed by Israeli soldiers”
Also the amount of flat out denial. “No that didn’t happen”. “You’re a pathetic Israeli shill and you’re lying”. “Total fabrication”
The irony is that the journalist, Matt Chorley, is a pretty feeble woke centre-lefty
I think there are quite a few left of centre types getting quite a shock just how anti-semitism isn't isolated to a few fringe people who Jezza calls friends, how overt it has become (its ok to chant a terrorist slogan in public, calling for the removal of all Jews from Middle East), after for long periods of time talking up the dangers of far right extremism.
One of the odder things is the double standards applied to thinking around 'river to the sea'. Jewish people, on the whole, find this a frightening phrase with implications of genocide. But the same people who police all manner of language, on the (often justified) basis that your intent isn't the point, it's how it lands with the people in question - don't seem to give a shit because, y'know, Jews.
I am certain that many (most?) people who chant it don't have genocidal intent. But that's not the point.
Do you thiink most Jews believe themselves to be Israelis?
Virtually every Jew I know is ardently pro Israel even if they despise the Israeli government of the day
They usually express it as: “after everything we’ve been through, we need one country we know is safe. Where we can always go if it comes to it”
In fact I’m not sure I’ve met a Jew that doesn’t feel this, tho they must exist. Perhaps you are one
They are the ones that Jezza always finds to call friends and hold them up as example of why he definitely can't be an antisemite.
I recall a conversation with a Jewish woman who told me that the claims of antisemitism against Corbyn were a smear, so they certainly do exist.
Oh they exist. But they are a fringe minority. There was the weird campaign group for Jezza that was basically Jews for Jezza who claimed it was all a witch-hunt.
There are of course fringe Jewish figures in Israel who say Israel shouldn't exist and I don't mean the ultra-orthodox ones who don't believe it should exist in current form as not religious enough.
Honestly I don't think Jezza is an antisemite in thought or intent. But he is so blinkered by 'the struggle' that he doesn't see the Jew-hating fellow travelling that it allows to flourish.
That has sort of been my view, he is so dense and so firm in his oppressor vs oppressed worldview is correct, he doesn't see any anti-Jewish stuff. But he really stretches that belief at times when he absolutely won't accept or acknowledge blatant truths.
For ages on here I called Corbyn a 'passive' anti-Semite - in fact, I think I was the first poster to use the term. Then something happened - it might have been the mural - and I realised that no, he was not passive. He was active. He's malign, as that interview clip today showed.
Yes I’ve made the same journey. Used to think he was just dumb. Now I think he is dumb AND anti semitic. Finds Jews distasteful - rich, manipulative, colonialist, white, capitalist, often American, anti-Muslim - in his eyes
Otoh, I doubt Corbyn has any opinion on Jews one way or the other. Corbyn is antisemitic in the sense of being opposed to Israel, not because he bears any animus towards Jewish people.
“Most of the people that died on October 7 were killed by Israeli soldiers”
Also the amount of flat out denial. “No that didn’t happen”. “You’re a pathetic Israeli shill and you’re lying”. “Total fabrication”
The irony is that the journalist, Matt Chorley, is a pretty feeble woke centre-lefty
I think there are quite a few left of centre types getting quite a shock just how anti-semitism isn't isolated to a few fringe people who Jezza calls friends, how overt it has become (its ok to chant a terrorist slogan in public, calling for the removal of all Jews from Middle East), after for long periods of time talking up the dangers of far right extremism.
One of the odder things is the double standards applied to thinking around 'river to the sea'. Jewish people, on the whole, find this a frightening phrase with implications of genocide. But the same people who police all manner of language, on the (often justified) basis that your intent isn't the point, it's how it lands with the people in question - don't seem to give a shit because, y'know, Jews.
I am certain that many (most?) people who chant it don't have genocidal intent. But that's not the point.
Do you thiink most Jews believe themselves to be Israelis?
Something like 40% of Jews live in Israel. Some of the Jews who live elsewhere will also think of themselves as Israeli (I live in Ireland and I think of myself as British).
So, yeah, seems likely that most Jews believe themselves to be Israelis.
It's a good analogy and lends itself to explain the Jews/Israel thing.
If you were born in England, your parents are English, and you had spent your entire life in England but one of your grandparents is Irish you are able to have an Irish passport, Does this mean you are Irish/agree with everything or anything that Ireland does/support Ireland when they are playing, say, England? Or be held responsible for the actions of the Irish government? No it does not. And it would be absurd to do so. But it gives you a connection to Ireland. That in extremis (ie you want to go through the "EU only" barrier at Marseille Airport) you can utilise.
imv it is the same with Jews in England. Are they Israeli? No. Are they accountable, or do they even necessarily agree with anything that the Israeli government does? Again no. But there a connection with Israel as Israel is a Jewish state and they can get an Israeli passport should they so wish.
If your grandfather was Irish I wouldn't dream of blaming you for something that the Irish government does. But the same doesn't hold true for Jews/Israel in very many cases.
“Most of the people that died on October 7 were killed by Israeli soldiers”
Also the amount of flat out denial. “No that didn’t happen”. “You’re a pathetic Israeli shill and you’re lying”. “Total fabrication”
The irony is that the journalist, Matt Chorley, is a pretty feeble woke centre-lefty
I think there are quite a few left of centre types getting quite a shock just how anti-semitism isn't isolated to a few fringe people who Jezza calls friends, how overt it has become (its ok to chant a terrorist slogan in public, calling for the removal of all Jews from Middle East), after for long periods of time talking up the dangers of far right extremism.
One of the odder things is the double standards applied to thinking around 'river to the sea'. Jewish people, on the whole, find this a frightening phrase with implications of genocide. But the same people who police all manner of language, on the (often justified) basis that your intent isn't the point, it's how it lands with the people in question - don't seem to give a shit because, y'know, Jews.
I am certain that many (most?) people who chant it don't have genocidal intent. But that's not the point.
Do you thiink most Jews believe themselves to be Israelis?
Virtually every Jew I know is ardently pro Israel even if they despise the Israeli government of the day
They usually express it as: “after everything we’ve been through, we need one country we know is safe. Where we can always go if it comes to it”
In fact I’m not sure I’ve met a Jew that doesn’t feel this, tho they must exist. Perhaps you are one
They are the ones that Jezza always finds to call friends and hold them up as example of why he definitely can't be an antisemite.
I recall a conversation with a Jewish woman who told me that the claims of antisemitism against Corbyn were a smear, so they certainly do exist.
Oh they exist. But they are a fringe minority. There was the weird campaign group for Jezza that was basically Jews for Jezza who claimed it was all a witch-hunt.
There are of course fringe Jewish figures in Israel who say Israel shouldn't exist and I don't mean the ultra-orthodox ones who don't believe it should exist in current form as not religious enough.
Honestly I don't think Jezza is an antisemite in thought or intent. But he is so blinkered by 'the struggle' that he doesn't see the Jew-hating fellow travelling that it allows to flourish.
That has sort of been my view, he is so dense and so firm in his oppressor vs oppressed worldview is correct, he doesn't see any anti-Jewish stuff. But he really stretches that belief at times when he absolutely won't accept or acknowledge blatant truths.
For ages on here I called Corbyn a 'passive' anti-Semite - in fact, I think I was the first poster to use the term. Then something happened - it might have been the mural - and I realised that no, he was not passive. He was active. He's malign, as that interview clip today showed.
Yes I’ve made the same journey. Used to think he was just dumb. Now I think he is dumb AND anti semitic. Finds Jews distasteful - rich, manipulative, colonialist, white, capitalist, often American, anti-Muslim - in his eyes
Otoh, I doubt Corbyn has any opinion on Jews one way or the other. Corbyn is antisemitic in the sense of being opposed to Israel, not because he bears any animus towards Jewish people.
Is he opposed to Israel, the concept, the state itself, or the current Far Right Nethanyahu regime though ?
I always saw him as someone who supports (white knights) the underdog and if the boot was on the other foot in the middle east he'd be marching for the oppressed Israelis.
For me the problem with him were some of his fellow travellers who had far more sinister motives.
Esther McVey has some work to do according to Ipsos.
People calling themselves 'woke' - 16% People calling themselves 'anti-woke' - 15% (1% less than the Suella Approvers!) People who don't care about such crap - 21% People who haven't a clue what any of it means - 44%
Just another sign why the culture wars thing is two groups only talking to themselves while the electorate scratch their heads at such lunacy
Asking the wrong question. Ask me if I’m woke and I’ll tell you I don’t care about silly labels. Ask me a series of questions on social issues and you can form a third party view (I’m very socially liberal for someone born in the early 80s, so usually called a fascist and a racist by today’s activists on things like trans rights and racism).
"For someone born in the early 80s."
I've never thought of my generation (born 1980) as being at all socially conservative.
“Most of the people that died on October 7 were killed by Israeli soldiers”
Also the amount of flat out denial. “No that didn’t happen”. “You’re a pathetic Israeli shill and you’re lying”. “Total fabrication”
The irony is that the journalist, Matt Chorley, is a pretty feeble woke centre-lefty
I think there are quite a few left of centre types getting quite a shock just how anti-semitism isn't isolated to a few fringe people who Jezza calls friends, how overt it has become (its ok to chant a terrorist slogan in public, calling for the removal of all Jews from Middle East), after for long periods of time talking up the dangers of far right extremism.
One of the odder things is the double standards applied to thinking around 'river to the sea'. Jewish people, on the whole, find this a frightening phrase with implications of genocide. But the same people who police all manner of language, on the (often justified) basis that your intent isn't the point, it's how it lands with the people in question - don't seem to give a shit because, y'know, Jews.
I am certain that many (most?) people who chant it don't have genocidal intent. But that's not the point.
Do you thiink most Jews believe themselves to be Israelis?
Virtually every Jew I know is ardently pro Israel even if they despise the Israeli government of the day
They usually express it as: “after everything we’ve been through, we need one country we know is safe. Where we can always go if it comes to it”
In fact I’m not sure I’ve met a Jew that doesn’t feel this, tho they must exist. Perhaps you are one
They must be even more discombobulated recently on the one country we know is safe metric. Afaics Israel has held a view that they float in a sea of enemies who wish to destroy them and with whom they cannot negotiate for most of its (modern) history, which seems a weird kind of safety to my eyes.
You can't see very far then. Perhaps out to Auchtermuchty if you squint.
This whole episode came about on the eve of and arguably on account of an imminent agreement between Israel and Saudi.
Invoke the mighty Muchty as your derisory example of the archytpical Scottish one-horse town if you like, but how many places of equivalent size can claim not one but two celebrated contributions to the musical canon?
You are slightly proving the point because you probably need to walk 500 miles if you start out from Auchtermuchty to get anywhere of note.
Tsk you obviously don't know the song very well. Total distance walked is 1000 miles.
It’s stopped now. It was bad enough that the air hostesses looked scared. I hate it when THEY look scared. That’s when I get scared
I remember a trip back from Manchester where it was announced that there would be no trolley service. And then you saw the staff very carefully strapping themselves in with cross belted seatbelts. It created a genuine feeling of dread which the next hour more than justified.
Everyone loves diversity and inclusion, until you stick up for the Palestinians. According to an Op-Ed in the Guardian. A paper which is overwhelmingly pro-Gazan.
How quickly the massacre of the 7th October is being forgotten.
"And that’s the point. If you are Palestinian, Arab or Muslim in the US today, or someone who is an ally of those groups, your speech is uniquely patrolled and your very right to speak is unfairly limited,"
I love it when someone writes an article in the mass media complaining that their voice is being silenced. Especially in the context of the mass pro-Palestinian marches there have been in the US.
Good grief. Debbie Stapel, PO Investigator, has just stated openly that the PO and Fujitsu should have acknowledged the Horizon system was faulty, and that it was possible to manually alter branch accounts remotely with Subpostmasters knowing.
They knew this, but they proceeded with prosecutions anyway, and didn't advise the defence lawyers of these obvious and catastrophic flaws.
Surely on that evidence alone, they have to be jailed? The only questions remaining is who exactly, how many and for how long?
They've certainly opened themselves to being sued for malicious prosecution, without any credible defence.
Criminal prosecutions for conspiracy to pervert the course of justice are up the the DPP.
Wow. I don’t think “misconduct in a public office” has a max sentence….
I may die up here but OTOH this plane - Malaysian Airlines - has fantastic FREE wifi
Is that a thing now? Brilliant free wifi on planes? I’ve had good wifi before but always had to pay for it, I think
Oh nice, we are flying Malaysian Airlines to Australia for Xmas and New Year. Look forward to it.
Check in and security took 5 minutes total at LHRT4
Impressive
Crap movie choice - but excellent free wifi more than makes up for that
That sounds really good, 5 minutes. We fly BA from NCL down to LHR then on to Kuala Lumpur then on to Oz.
How was boarding ?
As for movies I usually load my IPAD up with old Hammer/Amicus films and some classic TV to keep me occupied.
Boarding also highly efficient. So far I’m impressed. Nice friendly staff as well. I wonder if they are having to try really hard after all the bad publicity they had? If so - it’s working
Ditto on the iPad. I’ve got season 2 of Foundation ready to roll so screw the movies
“Most of the people that died on October 7 were killed by Israeli soldiers”
Also the amount of flat out denial. “No that didn’t happen”. “You’re a pathetic Israeli shill and you’re lying”. “Total fabrication”
The irony is that the journalist, Matt Chorley, is a pretty feeble woke centre-lefty
I think there are quite a few left of centre types getting quite a shock just how anti-semitism isn't isolated to a few fringe people who Jezza calls friends, how overt it has become (its ok to chant a terrorist slogan in public, calling for the removal of all Jews from Middle East), after for long periods of time talking up the dangers of far right extremism.
One of the odder things is the double standards applied to thinking around 'river to the sea'. Jewish people, on the whole, find this a frightening phrase with implications of genocide. But the same people who police all manner of language, on the (often justified) basis that your intent isn't the point, it's how it lands with the people in question - don't seem to give a shit because, y'know, Jews.
I am certain that many (most?) people who chant it don't have genocidal intent. But that's not the point.
Do you thiink most Jews believe themselves to be Israelis?
Virtually every Jew I know is ardently pro Israel even if they despise the Israeli government of the day
They usually express it as: “after everything we’ve been through, we need one country we know is safe. Where we can always go if it comes to it”
In fact I’m not sure I’ve met a Jew that doesn’t feel this, tho they must exist. Perhaps you are one
They must be even more discombobulated recently on the one country we know is safe metric. Afaics Israel has held a view that they float in a sea of enemies who wish to destroy them and with whom they cannot negotiate for most of its (modern) history, which seems a weird kind of safety to my eyes.
You can't see very far then. Perhaps out to Auchtermuchty if you squint.
This whole episode came about on the eve of and arguably on account of an imminent agreement between Israel and Saudi.
Invoke the mighty Muchty as your derisory example of the archytpical Scottish one-horse town if you like, but how many places of equivalent size can claim not one but two celebrated contributions to the musical canon?
You are slightly proving the point because you probably need to walk 500 miles if you start out from Auchtermuchty to get anywhere of note.
Tsk you obviously don't know the song very well. Total distance walked is 1000 miles.
"A thousand miles to fall down at your door" isn't it? Which isn't hard to imagine.
Esther McVey has some work to do according to Ipsos.
People calling themselves 'woke' - 16% People calling themselves 'anti-woke' - 15% (1% less than the Suella Approvers!) People who don't care about such crap - 21% People who haven't a clue what any of it means - 44%
Just another sign why the culture wars thing is two groups only talking to themselves while the electorate scratch their heads at such lunacy
Asking the wrong question. Ask me if I’m woke and I’ll tell you I don’t care about silly labels. Ask me a series of questions on social issues and you can form a third party view (I’m very socially liberal for someone born in the early 80s, so usually called a fascist and a racist by today’s activists on things like trans rights and racism).
"For someone born in the early 80s."
I've never thought of my generation (born 1980) as being at all socially conservative.
Everything is relative. In the late nineties I felt like an outlier, at times, even in my own age group, for being 100% behind gay marriage and equal ages of consent for example.
Esther McVey has some work to do according to Ipsos.
People calling themselves 'woke' - 16% People calling themselves 'anti-woke' - 15% (1% less than the Suella Approvers!) People who don't care about such crap - 21% People who haven't a clue what any of it means - 44%
Just another sign why the culture wars thing is two groups only talking to themselves while the electorate scratch their heads at such lunacy
“Just another sign why the culture wars thing is two groups only talking to themselves while the electorate scratch their heads at such lunacy”
But this can be said of any political topic. Half the population has an IQ under 100 so they’re too stupid to even grasp the issues anyway
Another 35% are so busy getting by and feeding their families they don’t pay any attention to politics outside elections: especially abstract concepts like Wokeness
It is ALWAYS an elite 15% that has these debates. People with the leisure, brains, and motivation to get involved. Us guys
I don't think that "politics" is so innately complex that it is only intelligible to those with above-median intelligence. That seems a rather elitist view, but also untrue. I think the reality is that a lot of people can see that the woke/anti-woke "debate" is largely a distraction from the bread and butter issues that matter for most people. Unless you are a member of a minority group facing discrimination in your day to day life, the issue is irrelevant and probably the poster child of a "luxury belief" on both sides.
I think you're both part right. Government is so intrusive and all-pervasive and modern society is so complicated that the former is inevitably involved in a huge number of issues that the Great Unwashed will not want to be involved in. For instance, which is the best monetary aggregate for forecasting inflation? Or should our electricity industry be governed by a power pool or a bilateral market? These affect virtually everybody in the country, but are so bafflingly technical that only a few dozen or hundred people will have opinions that are of any value.
However, issues such as peace or war, or whether abortion should be legal, or whether trans people should be allowed in women's bathrooms, are matters on which everybody, even those of limited intelligence, can have a valid opinion. Also, while people may not know which monetary aggregate to use, they can judge whether prices in the shops are rising or not. So they can judge results more than they can make policy choices.
Everyone loves diversity and inclusion, until you stick up for the Palestinians. According to an Op-Ed in the Guardian. A paper which is overwhelmingly pro-Gazan.
How quickly the massacre of the 7th October is being forgotten.
"And that’s the point. If you are Palestinian, Arab or Muslim in the US today, or someone who is an ally of those groups, your speech is uniquely patrolled and your very right to speak is unfairly limited,"
I love it when someone writes an article in the mass media complaining that their voice is being silenced. Especially in the context of the mass pro-Palestinian marches there have been in the US.
It is like that scene in I'm Alan Partridge
Dave - "I am Speechless, I, Dave Clifton am actually speechless"
Everyone loves diversity and inclusion, until you stick up for the Palestinians. According to an Op-Ed in the Guardian. A paper which is overwhelmingly pro-Gazan.
How quickly the massacre of the 7th October is being forgotten.
"And that’s the point. If you are Palestinian, Arab or Muslim in the US today, or someone who is an ally of those groups, your speech is uniquely patrolled and your very right to speak is unfairly limited,"
I love it when someone writes an article in the mass media complaining that their voice is being silenced. Especially in the context of the mass pro-Palestinian marches there have been in the US.
Not sure if you've spent much time in the US but the debate there is skewed in an extremely pro-Israel direction compared to here. It is actually quite hard for any pro-Palestinian views to get a hearing in the mass media. Or at least that was my impression when I lived there. Maybe things have shifted since 2010, I don't know.
It’s stopped now. It was bad enough that the air hostesses looked scared. I hate it when THEY look scared. That’s when I get scared
I remember a trip back from Manchester where it was announced that there would be no trolley service. And then you saw the staff very carefully strapping themselves in with cross belted seatbelts. It created a genuine feeling of dread which the next hour more than justified.
Indeed. I’ve been on a plane where the turbulence was bad and sudden enough the trolley went flying down the aisle
But I have a friend with a much better story (could be apocryphal he swears it’s true). He was on some flight over Afghanistan where the staff had to let off flares out the back to act as decoys for the anti aircraft missiles
“Most of the people that died on October 7 were killed by Israeli soldiers”
Also the amount of flat out denial. “No that didn’t happen”. “You’re a pathetic Israeli shill and you’re lying”. “Total fabrication”
The irony is that the journalist, Matt Chorley, is a pretty feeble woke centre-lefty
I think there are quite a few left of centre types getting quite a shock just how anti-semitism isn't isolated to a few fringe people who Jezza calls friends, how overt it has become (its ok to chant a terrorist slogan in public, calling for the removal of all Jews from Middle East), after for long periods of time talking up the dangers of far right extremism.
One of the odder things is the double standards applied to thinking around 'river to the sea'. Jewish people, on the whole, find this a frightening phrase with implications of genocide. But the same people who police all manner of language, on the (often justified) basis that your intent isn't the point, it's how it lands with the people in question - don't seem to give a shit because, y'know, Jews.
I am certain that many (most?) people who chant it don't have genocidal intent. But that's not the point.
Do you thiink most Jews believe themselves to be Israelis?
Virtually every Jew I know is ardently pro Israel even if they despise the Israeli government of the day
They usually express it as: “after everything we’ve been through, we need one country we know is safe. Where we can always go if it comes to it”
In fact I’m not sure I’ve met a Jew that doesn’t feel this, tho they must exist. Perhaps you are one
They must be even more discombobulated recently on the one country we know is safe metric. Afaics Israel has held a view that they float in a sea of enemies who wish to destroy them and with whom they cannot negotiate for most of its (modern) history, which seems a weird kind of safety to my eyes.
You can't see very far then. Perhaps out to Auchtermuchty if you squint.
This whole episode came about on the eve of and arguably on account of an imminent agreement between Israel and Saudi.
Invoke the mighty Muchty as your derisory example of the archytpical Scottish one-horse town if you like, but how many places of equivalent size can claim not one but two celebrated contributions to the musical canon?
You are slightly proving the point because you probably need to walk 500 miles if you start out from Auchtermuchty to get anywhere of note.
Tsk you obviously don't know the song very well. Total distance walked is 1000 miles.
Do they actually do the walking though ?
Aren't they just saying they would walk 500 more and then another 500, to meet some chick they fancy.
It’s stopped now. It was bad enough that the air hostesses looked scared. I hate it when THEY look scared. That’s when I get scared
I remember a trip back from Manchester where it was announced that there would be no trolley service. And then you saw the staff very carefully strapping themselves in with cross belted seatbelts. It created a genuine feeling of dread which the next hour more than justified.
I had a similar experience on a flight to Berlin during Atlantic gales. I was next to a colleague who'd worked on the rigs off Shetland and regaled me happily about hairy landings and near misses on his many trips. When we started rolling and pitching as we came into land and he looked terrified I figured I ought to worry too.
Everyone loves diversity and inclusion, until you stick up for the Palestinians. According to an Op-Ed in the Guardian. A paper which is overwhelmingly pro-Gazan.
How quickly the massacre of the 7th October is being forgotten.
"And that’s the point. If you are Palestinian, Arab or Muslim in the US today, or someone who is an ally of those groups, your speech is uniquely patrolled and your very right to speak is unfairly limited,"
I love it when someone writes an article in the mass media complaining that their voice is being silenced. Especially in the context of the mass pro-Palestinian marches there have been in the US.
Not sure if you've spent much time in the US but the debate there is skewed in an extremely pro-Israel direction compared to here. It is actually quite hard for any pro-Palestinian views to get a hearing in the mass media. Or at least that was my impression when I lived there. Maybe things have shifted since 2010, I don't know.
I think from looking at reports that things absolutely have shifted. Haven't there been (pro-Palestinian) protests at many of the ivy league universities, for example?
Turns out the people that wrote that report on TwiX are these guys. The Centre For Countering Digital Hate
A left wing lobby group with links to Labour. Quelle surprise
“The Center for Countering Digital Hate has a Left bias.
A Nov. 2022 independent review by an AllSides reviewer found the group advocates for left causes, such as urging Google to #BreakUpWithBigOil and a campaign urging Google to label clinics that steer women away from abortion. Its blog ran headlines such as "Biden Administration’s Principles could help make the internet safer for all", ‘Don’t Say Gay or Trans’: Tech platforms enabled wave of online extremist anti-LGBTQ+ rhetoric following Florida legislation, new research finds," and "How the UK’s Online Safety Bill would help tackle racist hate online." At the time of review, The Center for Countering Digital Hate highlighted the following "popular topics" on its webpage: "Misogyny," "Anti-vaxx misinformation," "Antisemitism," and "Climate change misinformation." The organization focuses on countering "hate and disinformation" online, and takes a view of hate that typically aligns with views on the left.”
I've looked for the "Yes Minister" quote about attacking the source, not the content.
Esther McVey has some work to do according to Ipsos.
People calling themselves 'woke' - 16% People calling themselves 'anti-woke' - 15% (1% less than the Suella Approvers!) People who don't care about such crap - 21% People who haven't a clue what any of it means - 44%
Just another sign why the culture wars thing is two groups only talking to themselves while the electorate scratch their heads at such lunacy
Asking the wrong question. Ask me if I’m woke and I’ll tell you I don’t care about silly labels. Ask me a series of questions on social issues and you can form a third party view (I’m very socially liberal for someone born in the early 80s, so usually called a fascist and a racist by today’s activists on things like trans rights and racism).
"For someone born in the early 80s."
I've never thought of my generation (born 1980) as being at all socially conservative.
Everything is relative. In the late nineties I felt like an outlier, at times, even in my own age group, for being 100% behind gay marriage and equal ages of consent for example.
I'm seven years older than you, and my experience as a student in London in the early 90s was the opposite. Knew a fair few gay men and women; no-one seemed to have any problems with them at uni. It was quite nice in a way, as for two in particular, university was their first opportunity to be "out". Although gay marriage wasn't really an issue that bothered gay men in their late teens or early twenties, to be fair. Age of consent was an issue; although I'm fairly sure they just ignored it...
(When was someone last prosecuted for homosexual acts under the allowed age, when that age was either 18 or 21, but the participants were over 16 (the current age)?
“Most of the people that died on October 7 were killed by Israeli soldiers”
Also the amount of flat out denial. “No that didn’t happen”. “You’re a pathetic Israeli shill and you’re lying”. “Total fabrication”
The irony is that the journalist, Matt Chorley, is a pretty feeble woke centre-lefty
I think there are quite a few left of centre types getting quite a shock just how anti-semitism isn't isolated to a few fringe people who Jezza calls friends, how overt it has become (its ok to chant a terrorist slogan in public, calling for the removal of all Jews from Middle East), after for long periods of time talking up the dangers of far right extremism.
One of the odder things is the double standards applied to thinking around 'river to the sea'. Jewish people, on the whole, find this a frightening phrase with implications of genocide. But the same people who police all manner of language, on the (often justified) basis that your intent isn't the point, it's how it lands with the people in question - don't seem to give a shit because, y'know, Jews.
I am certain that many (most?) people who chant it don't have genocidal intent. But that's not the point.
Do you thiink most Jews believe themselves to be Israelis?
Something like 40% of Jews live in Israel. Some of the Jews who live elsewhere will also think of themselves as Israeli (I live in Ireland and I think of myself as British).
So, yeah, seems likely that most Jews believe themselves to be Israelis.
Wikipedia has, with caveats, 30% of the Jewish population of the world living in Israel, with 51% living in the US. Although it depends on how you define who counts. On those numbers, it seems unlikely that most Jews believe themselves to be Israelis.
It only needs a minority of Jews living outside of Israel to think of themselves as Israeli to get to a majority overall. Are you really sure that it's less than a third?
Given the numbers who, for example, think of themselves as Irish-American in the US, I'd be really surprised if there weren't a majority of Jews who had an Israeli identity.
“Most of the people that died on October 7 were killed by Israeli soldiers”
Also the amount of flat out denial. “No that didn’t happen”. “You’re a pathetic Israeli shill and you’re lying”. “Total fabrication”
The irony is that the journalist, Matt Chorley, is a pretty feeble woke centre-lefty
I think there are quite a few left of centre types getting quite a shock just how anti-semitism isn't isolated to a few fringe people who Jezza calls friends, how overt it has become (its ok to chant a terrorist slogan in public, calling for the removal of all Jews from Middle East), after for long periods of time talking up the dangers of far right extremism.
One of the odder things is the double standards applied to thinking around 'river to the sea'. Jewish people, on the whole, find this a frightening phrase with implications of genocide. But the same people who police all manner of language, on the (often justified) basis that your intent isn't the point, it's how it lands with the people in question - don't seem to give a shit because, y'know, Jews.
I am certain that many (most?) people who chant it don't have genocidal intent. But that's not the point.
Do you thiink most Jews believe themselves to be Israelis?
Virtually every Jew I know is ardently pro Israel even if they despise the Israeli government of the day
They usually express it as: “after everything we’ve been through, we need one country we know is safe. Where we can always go if it comes to it”
In fact I’m not sure I’ve met a Jew that doesn’t feel this, tho they must exist. Perhaps you are one
They must be even more discombobulated recently on the one country we know is safe metric. Afaics Israel has held a view that they float in a sea of enemies who wish to destroy them and with whom they cannot negotiate for most of its (modern) history, which seems a weird kind of safety to my eyes.
You can't see very far then. Perhaps out to Auchtermuchty if you squint.
This whole episode came about on the eve of and arguably on account of an imminent agreement between Israel and Saudi.
Invoke the mighty Muchty as your derisory example of the archytpical Scottish one-horse town if you like, but how many places of equivalent size can claim not one but two celebrated contributions to the musical canon?
You are slightly proving the point because you probably need to walk 500 miles if you start out from Auchtermuchty to get anywhere of note.
Tsk you obviously don't know the song very well. Total distance walked is 1000 miles.
Whereas Auchtermuchty to Algarkirk is les than 360 miles, a little less if you walk.
Big day tommorow with Rwanda and the inflation numbers. I suppose with both if one goes the Gov'ts way and the other doesn't, they can pump one up on the morning rounds to try and suffocate the other.
Also the first semi-final of the cricket. Thank God for a reshuffle to keep us all occupied for the last two cricket-free days.
On topic, the Cameron return has certainly cut through in my workplace. From a selection of conversations with clients and colleagues so far today the primary emotion seems to be one of amusement, plus relief that Braverman has been given the chop,
I don't think the comedy value of Esther McVey's new job as common sense minister has been fully realised yet. That one's going to run and run. Every time the government does or says something appearing to lack common sense people are going to be calling for her to intervene.
“Most of the people that died on October 7 were killed by Israeli soldiers”
Also the amount of flat out denial. “No that didn’t happen”. “You’re a pathetic Israeli shill and you’re lying”. “Total fabrication”
The irony is that the journalist, Matt Chorley, is a pretty feeble woke centre-lefty
I think there are quite a few left of centre types getting quite a shock just how anti-semitism isn't isolated to a few fringe people who Jezza calls friends, how overt it has become (its ok to chant a terrorist slogan in public, calling for the removal of all Jews from Middle East), after for long periods of time talking up the dangers of far right extremism.
One of the odder things is the double standards applied to thinking around 'river to the sea'. Jewish people, on the whole, find this a frightening phrase with implications of genocide. But the same people who police all manner of language, on the (often justified) basis that your intent isn't the point, it's how it lands with the people in question - don't seem to give a shit because, y'know, Jews.
I am certain that many (most?) people who chant it don't have genocidal intent. But that's not the point.
Do you thiink most Jews believe themselves to be Israelis?
Virtually every Jew I know is ardently pro Israel even if they despise the Israeli government of the day
They usually express it as: “after everything we’ve been through, we need one country we know is safe. Where we can always go if it comes to it”
In fact I’m not sure I’ve met a Jew that doesn’t feel this, tho they must exist. Perhaps you are one
They must be even more discombobulated recently on the one country we know is safe metric. Afaics Israel has held a view that they float in a sea of enemies who wish to destroy them and with whom they cannot negotiate for most of its (modern) history, which seems a weird kind of safety to my eyes.
You can't see very far then. Perhaps out to Auchtermuchty if you squint.
This whole episode came about on the eve of and arguably on account of an imminent agreement between Israel and Saudi.
Invoke the mighty Muchty as your derisory example of the archytpical Scottish one-horse town if you like, but how many places of equivalent size can claim not one but two celebrated contributions to the musical canon?
You are slightly proving the point because you probably need to walk 500 miles if you start out from Auchtermuchty to get anywhere of note.
Tsk you obviously don't know the song very well. Total distance walked is 1000 miles.
Yeah sorry about that - classic "Verse Two of the National Anthem" syndrome.
Good grief. Debbie Stapel, PO Investigator, has just stated openly that the PO and Fujitsu should have acknowledged the Horizon system was faulty, and that it was possible to manually alter branch accounts remotely with Subpostmasters knowing.
They knew this, but they proceeded with prosecutions anyway, and didn't advise the defence lawyers of these obvious and catastrophic flaws.
Surely on that evidence alone, they have to be jailed? The only questions remaining is who exactly, how many and for how long?
They've certainly opened themselves to being sued for malicious prosecution, without any credible defence.
Criminal prosecutions for conspiracy to pervert the course of justice are up the the DPP.
Wow. I don’t think “misconduct in a public office” has a max sentence….
It doesn't. I took advice from a prosecuting lawyer on raising this for the campaign I am involved in and was told the police are not very keen unless someone has died (eg Hillsborough), although the PO case does have a very high level of suffering.
I was told if I was interested in pursuing it (I didn't) to contact the local plod. They wouldn't have a clue what I was talking about but would point me in the right direction.
I am aware of an old campaign of individuals who have brought serious complaints to the PHSO where NHS treatment has gone wrong and have felt the PHSO have been guilty of this in their work on their complaints and have tried to get the Met to prosecute and the Met have refused. I have no idea of the merit of the complaints.
It’s stopped now. It was bad enough that the air hostesses looked scared. I hate it when THEY look scared. That’s when I get scared
I remember a trip back from Manchester where it was announced that there would be no trolley service. And then you saw the staff very carefully strapping themselves in with cross belted seatbelts. It created a genuine feeling of dread which the next hour more than justified.
I had a similar experience on a flight to Berlin during Atlantic gales. I was next to a colleague who'd worked on the rigs off Shetland and regaled me happily about hairy landings and near misses on his many trips. When we started rolling and pitching as we came into land and he looked terrified I figured I ought to worry too.
When we tried to land at Edinburgh the cross wind was so severe the pilot couldn't hold the plane level, he touched the ground and then soared off explaining that we had to come around again. At that point the people in the opposite part of the aisle were praying. I am not religious but it didn't seem the worst idea...
It’s stopped now. It was bad enough that the air hostesses looked scared. I hate it when THEY look scared. That’s when I get scared
I remember a trip back from Manchester where it was announced that there would be no trolley service. And then you saw the staff very carefully strapping themselves in with cross belted seatbelts. It created a genuine feeling of dread which the next hour more than justified.
Indeed. I’ve been on a plane where the turbulence was bad and sudden enough the trolley went flying down the aisle
But I have a friend with a much better story (could be apocryphal he swears it’s true). He was on some flight over Afghanistan where the staff had to let off flares out the back to act as decoys for the anti aircraft missiles
I've heard planes used to do that going into Bagram.
Everyone loves diversity and inclusion, until you stick up for the Palestinians. According to an Op-Ed in the Guardian. A paper which is overwhelmingly pro-Gazan.
How quickly the massacre of the 7th October is being forgotten.
"And that’s the point. If you are Palestinian, Arab or Muslim in the US today, or someone who is an ally of those groups, your speech is uniquely patrolled and your very right to speak is unfairly limited,"
I love it when someone writes an article in the mass media complaining that their voice is being silenced. Especially in the context of the mass pro-Palestinian marches there have been in the US.
Not sure if you've spent much time in the US but the debate there is skewed in an extremely pro-Israel direction compared to here. It is actually quite hard for any pro-Palestinian views to get a hearing in the mass media. Or at least that was my impression when I lived there. Maybe things have shifted since 2010, I don't know.
I think from looking at reports that things absolutely have shifted. Haven't there been (pro-Palestinian) protests at many of the ivy league universities, for example?
Yep. And this NYT report says young political aides in DC are rebelling against their pro Israeli bosses
“Most of the people that died on October 7 were killed by Israeli soldiers”
Also the amount of flat out denial. “No that didn’t happen”. “You’re a pathetic Israeli shill and you’re lying”. “Total fabrication”
The irony is that the journalist, Matt Chorley, is a pretty feeble woke centre-lefty
I think there are quite a few left of centre types getting quite a shock just how anti-semitism isn't isolated to a few fringe people who Jezza calls friends, how overt it has become (its ok to chant a terrorist slogan in public, calling for the removal of all Jews from Middle East), after for long periods of time talking up the dangers of far right extremism.
One of the odder things is the double standards applied to thinking around 'river to the sea'. Jewish people, on the whole, find this a frightening phrase with implications of genocide. But the same people who police all manner of language, on the (often justified) basis that your intent isn't the point, it's how it lands with the people in question - don't seem to give a shit because, y'know, Jews.
I am certain that many (most?) people who chant it don't have genocidal intent. But that's not the point.
Do you thiink most Jews believe themselves to be Israelis?
Something like 40% of Jews live in Israel. Some of the Jews who live elsewhere will also think of themselves as Israeli (I live in Ireland and I think of myself as British).
So, yeah, seems likely that most Jews believe themselves to be Israelis.
It's a good analogy and lends itself to explain the Jews/Israel thing.
If you were born in England, your parents are English, and you had spent your entire life in England but one of your grandparents is Irish you are able to have an Irish passport, Does this mean you are Irish/agree with everything or anything that Ireland does/support Ireland when they are playing, say, England? Or be held responsible for the actions of the Irish government? No it does not. And it would be absurd to do so. But it gives you a connection to Ireland. That in extremis (ie you want to go through the "EU only" barrier at Marseille Airport) you can utilise.
imv it is the same with Jews in England. Are they Israeli? No. Are they accountable, or do they even necessarily agree with anything that the Israeli government does? Again no. But there a connection with Israel as Israel is a Jewish state and they can get an Israeli passport should they so wish.
If your grandfather was Irish I wouldn't dream of blaming you for something that the Irish government does. But the same doesn't hold true for Jews/Israel in very many cases.
Eh?
I don't know what Roger meant by the question, but I certainly wasn't saying that a majority of Jews agreed with the actions and policies of the current government of the Israeli state. Just that a majority might feel that it is part of their identity.
School districts that have removed books have cited recent state laws including one dubbed the Don't Say Gay bill, which says children should not be taught about sexual orientation or gender identity.
Interesting how this fake news creeps in....putting aside the right and wrongs of the actual bill, if you read that you think no children are getting talk this element of sex ed, in fact it is only kids up to 9 years old.
I don't know what Roger meant by the question, but I certainly wasn't saying that a majority of Jews agreed with the actions and policies of the current government of the Israeli state. Just that a majority might feel that it is part of their identity.
And I was broadening out the discussion to address the Jews/Israel thing when someone conflates Jews and Israel. And why it is illogical, to be generous.
It’s stopped now. It was bad enough that the air hostesses looked scared. I hate it when THEY look scared. That’s when I get scared
I remember a trip back from Manchester where it was announced that there would be no trolley service. And then you saw the staff very carefully strapping themselves in with cross belted seatbelts. It created a genuine feeling of dread which the next hour more than justified.
Most injuries caused by turbulence, are as a result of cabin crew and trolleys going weightless / hitting the ceiling / hitting the floor again.
The plane only needs to drop a few feet for that to happen, even if people think it must be falling hundreds of feet.
Everyone loves diversity and inclusion, until you stick up for the Palestinians. According to an Op-Ed in the Guardian. A paper which is overwhelmingly pro-Gazan.
How quickly the massacre of the 7th October is being forgotten.
"And that’s the point. If you are Palestinian, Arab or Muslim in the US today, or someone who is an ally of those groups, your speech is uniquely patrolled and your very right to speak is unfairly limited,"
I love it when someone writes an article in the mass media complaining that their voice is being silenced. Especially in the context of the mass pro-Palestinian marches there have been in the US.
Not sure if you've spent much time in the US but the debate there is skewed in an extremely pro-Israel direction compared to here. It is actually quite hard for any pro-Palestinian views to get a hearing in the mass media. Or at least that was my impression when I lived there. Maybe things have shifted since 2010, I don't know.
I think from looking at reports that things absolutely have shifted. Haven't there been (pro-Palestinian) protests at many of the ivy league universities, for example?
Yep. And this NYT report says young political aides in DC are rebelling against their pro Israeli bosses
“Most of the people that died on October 7 were killed by Israeli soldiers”
Also the amount of flat out denial. “No that didn’t happen”. “You’re a pathetic Israeli shill and you’re lying”. “Total fabrication”
The irony is that the journalist, Matt Chorley, is a pretty feeble woke centre-lefty
I think there are quite a few left of centre types getting quite a shock just how anti-semitism isn't isolated to a few fringe people who Jezza calls friends, how overt it has become (its ok to chant a terrorist slogan in public, calling for the removal of all Jews from Middle East), after for long periods of time talking up the dangers of far right extremism.
One of the odder things is the double standards applied to thinking around 'river to the sea'. Jewish people, on the whole, find this a frightening phrase with implications of genocide. But the same people who police all manner of language, on the (often justified) basis that your intent isn't the point, it's how it lands with the people in question - don't seem to give a shit because, y'know, Jews.
I am certain that many (most?) people who chant it don't have genocidal intent. But that's not the point.
Do you thiink most Jews believe themselves to be Israelis?
Virtually every Jew I know is ardently pro Israel even if they despise the Israeli government of the day
They usually express it as: “after everything we’ve been through, we need one country we know is safe. Where we can always go if it comes to it”
In fact I’m not sure I’ve met a Jew that doesn’t feel this, tho they must exist. Perhaps you are one
They must be even more discombobulated recently on the one country we know is safe metric. Afaics Israel has held a view that they float in a sea of enemies who wish to destroy them and with whom they cannot negotiate for most of its (modern) history, which seems a weird kind of safety to my eyes.
You can't see very far then. Perhaps out to Auchtermuchty if you squint.
This whole episode came about on the eve of and arguably on account of an imminent agreement between Israel and Saudi.
Invoke the mighty Muchty as your derisory example of the archytpical Scottish one-horse town if you like, but how many places of equivalent size can claim not one but two celebrated contributions to the musical canon?
You are slightly proving the point because you probably need to walk 500 miles if you start out from Auchtermuchty to get anywhere of note.
Tsk you obviously don't know the song very well. Total distance walked is 1000 miles.
Do they actually do the walking though ?
Aren't they just saying they would walk 500 more and then another 500, to meet some chick they fancy.
It is a while since I heard the song.
Yes it is merely an intent but it is expressed quite strongly. The other actions in the song (waking up, havering etc) are reported as things that are "gonna" happen but the walking is more conditional ("would"). I've seen the Proclaimers live though and I'd bet that they generally follow through on their promises.
Good grief. Debbie Stapel, PO Investigator, has just stated openly that the PO and Fujitsu should have acknowledged the Horizon system was faulty, and that it was possible to manually alter branch accounts remotely with Subpostmasters knowing.
They knew this, but they proceeded with prosecutions anyway, and didn't advise the defence lawyers of these obvious and catastrophic flaws.
Surely on that evidence alone, they have to be jailed? The only questions remaining is who exactly, how many and for how long?
They've certainly opened themselves to being sued for malicious prosecution, without any credible defence.
Criminal prosecutions for conspiracy to pervert the course of justice are up the the DPP.
This story gets worse every day, it really does.
Half of me wants to stop the whole thing now, and pass files to the CPS, while the other half of me wants to see the rest of the PO senior management forced to have their say under oath first.
Comments
I know "the grass is always greener," but in Roger's case, I think he just hates the UK.
(*) Someone spat at her once in Oxford Street, but she had no idea if that was because she is foreign, a woman, or the guy was just an @sshat. Or all three...
https://x.com/bfmtv/status/1724148021871493512
People calling themselves 'woke' - 16%
People calling themselves 'anti-woke' - 15% (1% less than the Suella Approvers!)
People who don't care about such crap - 21%
People who haven't a clue what any of it means - 44%
Just another sign why the culture wars thing is two groups only talking to themselves while the electorate scratch their heads at such lunacy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwrnFQLD_mA
A left wing lobby group with links to Labour. Quelle surprise
“The Center for Countering Digital Hate has a Left bias.
A Nov. 2022 independent review by an AllSides reviewer found the group advocates for left causes, such as urging Google to #BreakUpWithBigOil and a campaign urging Google to label clinics that steer women away from abortion. Its blog ran headlines such as "Biden Administration’s Principles could help make the internet safer for all", ‘Don’t Say Gay or Trans’: Tech platforms enabled wave of online extremist anti-LGBTQ+ rhetoric following Florida legislation, new research finds," and "How the UK’s Online Safety Bill would help tackle racist hate online." At the time of review, The Center for Countering Digital Hate highlighted the following "popular topics" on its webpage: "Misogyny," "Anti-vaxx misinformation," "Antisemitism," and "Climate change misinformation." The organization focuses on countering "hate and disinformation" online, and takes a view of hate that typically aligns with views on the left.”
I don’t think the old owners of Twitter even deny it any more. Their argument was the same: it’s ours, we own it, we’re on the liberal left, get over it
“Just another sign why the culture wars thing is two groups only talking to themselves while the electorate scratch their heads at such lunacy”
But this can be said of any political topic. Half the population has an IQ under 100 so they’re too stupid to even grasp the issues anyway
Another 35% are so busy getting by and feeding their families they don’t pay any attention to politics outside elections: especially abstract concepts like Wokeness
It is ALWAYS an elite 15% that has these debates. People with the leisure, brains, and motivation to get involved. Us guys
This whole episode came about on the eve of and arguably on account of an imminent agreement between Israel and Saudi.
“The refrain “Twitter is not real life” is meant to be a criticism of the platform, and those who use it, as overly liberal and activist and not representative of everyday Americans. But I always think: “No, it’s not — and thank God for that.” Twitter has filled a huge void for people such as me who prefer more left-wing politicians such as Sens. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) and Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.) over more moderate Democrats and want to see the country move aggressively in a more progressive direction.”
“In fact, Twitter is in many ways America’s true left-wing news outlet. But the benefits of Twitter for the left also come with some costs”
Written by a left winger
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/10/26/how-twitter-became-media-americas-left/
They knew this, but they proceeded with prosecutions anyway, and didn't advise the defence lawyers of these obvious and catastrophic flaws.
Surely on that evidence alone, they have to be jailed? The only questions remaining is who exactly, how many and for how long?
Hunt has to present the Autumn Statement next week then his job is really done
If more hate speech is banned on the right; perhaps that's because the right (in the US) is filled with people who like to provoke using hate speech?
Second, why shouldn't we criticise how he runs it ? He (more or less) owns it, but that's no reason for giving him a pass for being a tw@t, on the numerous occasions he is.
Is that a thing now? Brilliant free wifi on planes? I’ve had good wifi before but always had to pay for it, I think
So, yeah, seems likely that most Jews believe themselves to be Israelis.
Criminal prosecutions for conspiracy to pervert the course of justice are up the the DPP.
Impressive
Crap movie choice - but excellent free wifi more than makes up for that
How quickly the massacre of the 7th October is being forgotten.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/other/everyone-loves-diversity-and-inclusion-until-you-stick-up-for-palestinians/ar-AA1jTTM9?ocid=entnewsntp&cvid=b0f071c732fe489f80d510fd66c3d91f&ei=19
If you were born in England, your parents are English, and you had spent your entire life in England but one of your grandparents is Irish you are able to have an Irish passport, Does this mean you are Irish/agree with everything or anything that Ireland does/support Ireland when they are playing, say, England? Or be held responsible for the actions of the Irish government? No it does not. And it would be absurd to do so. But it gives you a connection to Ireland. That in extremis (ie you want to go through the "EU only" barrier at Marseille Airport) you can utilise.
imv it is the same with Jews in England. Are they Israeli? No. Are they accountable, or do they even necessarily agree with anything that the Israeli government does? Again no. But there a connection with Israel as Israel is a Jewish state and they can get an Israeli passport should they so wish.
If your grandfather was Irish I wouldn't dream of blaming you for something that the Irish government does. But the same doesn't hold true for Jews/Israel in very many cases.
How was boarding ?
As for movies I usually load my IPAD up with old Hammer/Amicus films and some classic TV to keep me occupied.
I always saw him as someone who supports (white knights) the underdog and if the boot was on the other foot in the middle east he'd be marching for the oppressed Israelis.
For me the problem with him were some of his fellow travellers who had far more sinister motives.
I've never thought of my generation (born 1980) as being at all socially conservative.
I love it when someone writes an article in the mass media complaining that their voice is being silenced. Especially in the context of the mass pro-Palestinian marches there have been in the US.
Ditto on the iPad. I’ve got season 2 of Foundation ready to roll so screw the movies
However, issues such as peace or war, or whether abortion should be legal, or whether trans people should be allowed in women's bathrooms, are matters on which everybody, even those of limited intelligence, can have a valid opinion. Also, while people may not know which monetary aggregate to use, they can judge whether prices in the shops are rising or not. So they can judge results more than they can make policy choices.
Dave - "I am Speechless, I, Dave Clifton am actually speechless"
Alan - "You don't sound it, I wish you were"
But I have a friend with a much better story (could be apocryphal he swears it’s true). He was on some flight over Afghanistan where the staff had to let off flares out the back to act as decoys for the anti aircraft missiles
Aren't they just saying they would walk 500 more and then another 500, to meet some chick they fancy.
It is a while since I heard the song.
(When was someone last prosecuted for homosexual acts under the allowed age, when that age was either 18 or 21, but the participants were over 16 (the current age)?
Given the numbers who, for example, think of themselves as Irish-American in the US, I'd be really surprised if there weren't a majority of Jews who had an Israeli identity.
I don't think the comedy value of Esther McVey's new job as common sense minister has been fully realised yet. That one's going to run and run. Every time the government does or says something appearing to lack common sense people are going to be calling for her to intervene.
I was told if I was interested in pursuing it (I didn't) to contact the local plod. They wouldn't have a clue what I was talking about but would point me in the right direction.
I am aware of an old campaign of individuals who have brought serious complaints to the PHSO where NHS treatment has gone wrong and have felt the PHSO have been guilty of this in their work on their complaints and have tried to get the Met to prosecute and the Met have refused. I have no idea of the merit of the complaints.
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/14/us/politics/israel-biden-letter-gaza-cease-fire.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare
Definitely a change in US attitudes; perilous for Israel
Jerusalem needs to pursue a two state solution NOW before it is too late - once they have eliminated Hamas. That’s the hard truth for Israel
Otherwise they will end up with a one state solution
William Hague was offered FS job, refused and suggested Cameron.
https://x.com/anandMenon1/status/1724402778724766040?s=20
Which implies this was not some genius pivot to the blue wall but simply a desire to get someone experienced in foreign affairs into the job.
I don't know what Roger meant by the question, but I certainly wasn't saying that a majority of Jews agreed with the actions and policies of the current government of the Israeli state. Just that a majority might feel that it is part of their identity.
https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-67413099
Interesting how this fake news creeps in....putting aside the right and wrongs of the actual bill, if you read that you think no children are getting talk this element of sex ed, in fact it is only kids up to 9 years old.
The plane only needs to drop a few feet for that to happen, even if people think it must be falling hundreds of feet.
Half of me wants to stop the whole thing now, and pass files to the CPS, while the other half of me wants to see the rest of the PO senior management forced to have their say under oath first.