1. Another huge uturn from Sunak. His "the last 30 years were crap, I am Mr Change" agenda never took off. Bringing back his Great-Great-Great-PM as FS kills it completely. 2. Lord Pigbotherer isn't remotely comparable to Lord Mandy. The latter slimed his way into the machinery of government and brought stability, the former will be sent off to try and sort out Israel and Ukraine and America. 3. Firing Cruella has lit the fuse on the next round ot the Tory civil war. Bringing McVile in as Bigoted Opinions Czar won't appease them, and is about as laughable a role and hire as could have been done.
I know that Cameron has fanbois. But his time is long over - we're on our 4th PM since he flounced. Nor will the things I liked about him be allowed to flourish. No progressive politics allowed in today's Fuck Off Tory Party.
A few people have now posted views that this will only accelerate the Tory collapse towards ELE. Its certainly possible.
Mandelson did not 'bring stability'. He did make himself a lot of money, though...
Remember, he resigned from government *twice*. Once over a dodgy loan; the other over a dodgy passport application.
He did bring stability to Brown's government.
Plus it is a bit of antisemitic trope to accuse a Jew of being money obsessed.
Being Jewish is not some kind of shield that you can use against all criticism.
It'd be interesting to know more details on this after they (hopefully!) rescue the men. Was it bad tunnel design/construction, or just bad luck that a landslide occurred whilst it was under construction, when tunnels are at their weakest? The pictures from the interior of the tunnel seem slightly odd from a construction POV, but I'm not an expert.
(Though I'd argue the construction system should be designed to cope with likely events such as landslides...)
Edit: this report from the Indy indicates health and safety might not have been quite as stringent as we might hope: "“Just a day before, when we were removing a lattice girder, we saw some debris falling. On Saturday night, a piece of concrete fell from the roof. We informed our seniors. But before they could do anything, the incident happened,” he added. The National Highways and Infrastructure Development Corporation Limited (NHIDCL) is the agency engaged in building the tunnel."
If you have concrete falling from the roof, I might argue you get the workers further down the tunnel out...
Isn’t that woke, anti-progress thinking?
'Woke' is such a flexible term it seems just to mean anything those with feeble brains don't like....
1. Another huge uturn from Sunak. His "the last 30 years were crap, I am Mr Change" agenda never took off. Bringing back his Great-Great-Great-PM as FS kills it completely. 2. Lord Pigbotherer isn't remotely comparable to Lord Mandy. The latter slimed his way into the machinery of government and brought stability, the former will be sent off to try and sort out Israel and Ukraine and America. 3. Firing Cruella has lit the fuse on the next round ot the Tory civil war. Bringing McVile in as Bigoted Opinions Czar won't appease them, and is about as laughable a role and hire as could have been done.
I know that Cameron has fanbois. But his time is long over - we're on our 4th PM since he flounced. Nor will the things I liked about him be allowed to flourish. No progressive politics allowed in today's Fuck Off Tory Party.
A few people have now posted views that this will only accelerate the Tory collapse towards ELE. Its certainly possible.
Mandelson did not 'bring stability'. He did make himself a lot of money, though...
Remember, he resigned from government *twice*. Once over a dodgy loan; the other over a dodgy passport application.
He did bring stability to Brown's government.
Plus it is a bit of antisemitic trope to accuse a Jew of being money obsessed.
TBF I didn't actually know he was Jewish... But the loan scandal that caused him to resign from a ministerial post the first time should be fair comment about someone of any race.
And what's in this for Cameron? Foreign Secretary for a year, then an opposition peer for a bit... I can't see a new Tory leader giving him a front-bench role post-GE24 (or GE25), and surely a role in Government post-GE29 (if the Tories win) is pretty unlikely.
He can't be too content with whatever he's doing at the moment if he's happy to jack it all in for such a comparatively paltry return...
Cameron wanted this in 2021. This very website discussed it when they heard he wanted to get back as Foreign Secretary (when Johnson was in charge).
It wasn't a runner then. Johnson doesn't like Cameron and the feeling is mutual, plus the (then) obvious difficulty of making Cameron a Lord and then Foreign Secretary. But Sunak isn't Johnson and he's just ignored all that convention and done it.
Cameron wanted back and he's got it.
Will it help the Conservatives? Hell yes. I still see '120 seats to a majority', and 'Everyone hates the Labour party in Bootle.... except on GE day'.
The Conservatives might not win this, but they could still force a hung parliament.
As a final aside, I think a May 2024 election is now more likely. Sunak's getting his final team ready, and might go whilst they are still in honeymoon period next year.
It'd be interesting to know more details on this after they (hopefully!) rescue the men. Was it bad tunnel design/construction, or just bad luck that a landslide occurred whilst it was under construction, when tunnels are at their weakest? The pictures from the interior of the tunnel seem slightly odd from a construction POV, but I'm not an expert.
(Though I'd argue the construction system should be designed to cope with likely events such as landslides...)
Edit: this report from the Indy indicates health and safety might not have been quite as stringent as we might hope: "“Just a day before, when we were removing a lattice girder, we saw some debris falling. On Saturday night, a piece of concrete fell from the roof. We informed our seniors. But before they could do anything, the incident happened,” he added. The National Highways and Infrastructure Development Corporation Limited (NHIDCL) is the agency engaged in building the tunnel."
If you have concrete falling from the roof, I might argue you get the workers further down the tunnel out...
Isn’t that woke, anti-progress thinking?
'Woke' is such a flexible term it seems just to mean anything those with feeble brains don't like....
Foreign Minister Dmytro Kuleba confirms Bloomberg's report that the EU will not be able to deliver one million artillery shells to Ukraine by March. The minister believes that the reason for this problem is the "deplorable state of the EU's defense industry". https://twitter.com/Hromadske/status/1724329093875802543
Most of their current supply is reportedly from S Korean stocks.
I asked a question on here about this a while ago. I understand that our munitions manufacturing capability is also woeful. Perhaps Lord Greensill's first trip should be to S Korea.
It's a problem around the world. There have been no major conflicts requiring munitions, so everyone has regressed to more or less peacetime levels. From an article I saw, some of the machines the US uses to construct shells is fairly ancient. We need to ramp up PDQ; but that takes money...
The Americans will have a new one up and running next year as well, to replace a factory that blew up a couple of years ago. Meanwhile there’s plenty of stockpiles if needed, certainly way more than the Russians can get their hands on from N. Korea.
Pretty much everything the Russians have pointed to as being a Western weakness, turned out to have been a massive strength compared to their own army. Pointing fingers at Westen ammo shortages is merely a way to distract from their own.
Incidentally, I did wonder the other day what the mud season would do to landmines; would the ground become soft enough for vehicles or people just to push them into the ground, rather than trigger them? I doubt it, and wouldn't want to be the one to test it, but...
Mr. Jessop, well, adding Hamas would be one more way to annoy the locals. Most of the others seem to have been explored.
The initial pricing sounds bonkers. Apparently there have been huge discounts as the organisers panic and realise making it more expensive for an American to visit the Las Vegas Grand Prix than the Japanese Grand Prix was perhaps unwise.
I think overall Cameron is a good move for the Tories in the Blue Wall.
Whilst Remainers like myself think he was an idiot to call the referendum he did at least back Remain and its Johnson who will always IMO be the one who bears most responsibility for Brexit .
The big moves yesterday were Braverman out and Cameron in so public perception would be divisive moron out and adult in .
I do expect Cameron to have a big role in the general election campaign and I don’t expect him to cause any issues at the foreign office.
In terms of the Red Wall I don’t see him helping with the opposition making hay over his time in office and cuts to public services.
Sunaks attempts to make himself look like the change candidate are over. It looks like Sunak is going for the 2015 voter coalition but he doesn’t have Miliband and the SNP coalition of chaos argument . Given what the Tories have delivered over the last few years the public will laugh at any such attempts .
1. Another huge uturn from Sunak. His "the last 30 years were crap, I am Mr Change" agenda never took off. Bringing back his Great-Great-Great-PM as FS kills it completely. 2. Lord Pigbotherer isn't remotely comparable to Lord Mandy. The latter slimed his way into the machinery of government and brought stability, the former will be sent off to try and sort out Israel and Ukraine and America. 3. Firing Cruella has lit the fuse on the next round ot the Tory civil war. Bringing McVile in as Bigoted Opinions Czar won't appease them, and is about as laughable a role and hire as could have been done.
I know that Cameron has fanbois. But his time is long over - we're on our 4th PM since he flounced. Nor will the things I liked about him be allowed to flourish. No progressive politics allowed in today's Fuck Off Tory Party.
A few people have now posted views that this will only accelerate the Tory collapse towards ELE. Its certainly possible.
Mandelson did not 'bring stability'. He did make himself a lot of money, though...
Remember, he resigned from government *twice*. Once over a dodgy loan; the other over a dodgy passport application.
He did bring stability to Brown's government.
Plus it is a bit of antisemitic trope to accuse a Jew of being money obsessed.
Being Jewish is not some kind of shield that you can use against all criticism.
Greensill. Conservative sleaze on steroids. Cameron is up to his neck in it, and Sunak as just appointed someone in full knowledge of that, so now he's directly implicated too.
Somebody asked on the last thread why nobody had a good word to say about Braverman while she was in office.
I would take issue with this. I had many good words for her.
I just didn't want to say them on here because OGH would have banned me.
Interesting that Sunak had decided to replace her well before the article, having already set in train the Cameron recruitment.
I agree. I suspect they had a bust up a while back. She then went more progressively out on a limb to embarrass him and he lined up a successor . Neither was shocked at the sacking.
It does make him look marginally more decisive than he was being given credit for last week.
It will be interesting to see how much of a role Cameron is given outside if his direct brief. I am guessing his appointment signals a deliberate change in the political complexion of Sunak's government.
Cant see how much will change. Sunak has done little with his tenure as PM.
Hunt will no doubt spring out and claim he has done all this hard work and followed Rishsi plan so we can have a bit of our own money back before an election. Bribing us with our own money as the saying goes. But it will be market day and he wont have done enough to fatten the pig.
We will go in to an election with three parties trying to claim the same space and choice only available at the extremes.
All three parties are hedged in by the same demographic and economic constraints as well as the dead albatross of Brexit, so not surprising that they look the same.
There is no original political thought out there, nor coherent plan for the country.
This dead albatross exists only in your head. The UK has not collapsed post Brexit. Brexits failure is not to have delivered more upside than if we had stayed in, you can debate all day as to why.
The new passports really are nicer, tho
I generously accept this is unlikely to mollify the 10m Remoaners driven mad by Brexit. And they have a point
But the passports are better now - aesthetically. As promised
You could have had the blue passport, as if that matters at all, without the economic slump, political instability, enervation of influence and vast cultural schism though. It was possible within the EU, see Croatia.
And what's in this for Cameron? Foreign Secretary for a year, then an opposition peer for a bit... I can't see a new Tory leader giving him a front-bench role post-GE24 (or GE25), and surely a role in Government post-GE29 (if the Tories win) is pretty unlikely.
He can't be too content with whatever he's doing at the moment if he's happy to jack it all in for such a comparatively paltry return...
Cameron wanted this in 2021. This very website discussed it when they heard he wanted to get back as Foreign Secretary (when Johnson was in charge).
It wasn't a runner then. Johnson doesn't like Cameron and the feeling is mutual, plus the (then) obvious difficulty of making Cameron a Lord and then Foreign Secretary. But Sunak isn't Johnson and he's just ignored all that convention and done it.
Cameron wanted back and he's got it.
Will it help the Conservatives? Hell yes. I still see '120 seats to a majority', and 'Everyone hates the Labour party in Bootle.... except on GE day'.
The Conservatives might not win this, but they could still force a hung parliament.
As a final aside, I think a May 2024 election is now more likely. Sunak's getting his final team ready, and might go whilst they are still in honeymoon period next year.
Cameron creates enemies: I’ve noticed this
There’s a trust weird article in the world’s greatest magazine, the Spectator, where the writer - a friend of Sunak? - keeps overtly hinting he has some personal reason to loathe Cameron - but won’t reveal what it is
And what's in this for Cameron? Foreign Secretary for a year, then an opposition peer for a bit... I can't see a new Tory leader giving him a front-bench role post-GE24 (or GE25), and surely a role in Government post-GE29 (if the Tories win) is pretty unlikely.
He can't be too content with whatever he's doing at the moment if he's happy to jack it all in for such a comparatively paltry return...
He's back on the field, and his Eton rival Johnson isn't even in the stands, which is probably the long and short of it.
The Esther McVey appointment is embarrassing. It makes Sunak look ridiculous and will not appease a single one of the loons.
What even is a "Minister of Common Sense" and what is their portfolio?
Glad to see Barclay gone at DoH. He had no interest or aptitude for the NHS. Hopefully Atkins can negotiate an end to the strikes and do something about the retention crisis. Otherwise going nowhere on waiting lists.
Will the fragrant McVey (a hint of of brimstone no doubt) continue her regular slot on the home of common sense, GB News? You’d think that there would be rules about this kind of thing, but with this lot who knows?
Somebody asked on the last thread why nobody had a good word to say about Braverman while she was in office.
I would take issue with this. I had many good words for her.
I just didn't want to say them on here because OGH would have banned me.
Interesting that Sunak had decided to replace her well before the article, having already set in train the Cameron recruitment.
I agree. I suspect they had a bust up a while back. She then went more progressively out on a limb to embarrass him and he lined up a successor . Neither was shocked at the sacking.
It does make him look marginally more decisive than he was being given credit for last week.
It will be interesting to see how much of a role Cameron is given outside if his direct brief. I am guessing his appointment signals a deliberate change in the political complexion of Sunak's government.
Cant see how much will change. Sunak has done little with his tenure as PM.
Hunt will no doubt spring out and claim he has done all this hard work and followed Rishsi plan so we can have a bit of our own money back before an election. Bribing us with our own money as the saying goes. But it will be market day and he wont have done enough to fatten the pig.
We will go in to an election with three parties trying to claim the same space and choice only available at the extremes.
All three parties are hedged in by the same demographic and economic constraints as well as the dead albatross of Brexit, so not surprising that they look the same.
There is no original political thought out there, nor coherent plan for the country.
This dead albatross exists only in your head. The UK has not collapsed post Brexit. Brexits failure is not to have delivered more upside than if we had stayed in, you can debate all day as to why.
The new passports really are nicer, tho
I generously accept this is unlikely to mollify the 10m Remoaners driven mad by Brexit. And they have a point
But the passports are better now - aesthetically. As promised
You could have had the blue passport, as if that matters at all, without the economic slump, political instability, enervation of influence and vast cultural schism though. It was possible within the EU, see Croatia.
No, we needed the moral spur of actual Brexit to give us the glowing self confidence to design our own passports. And deep dark lovely blue, they are
I think overall Cameron is a good move for the Tories in the Blue Wall.
Whilst Remainers like myself think he was an idiot to call the referendum he did at least back Remain and its Johnson who will always IMO be the one who bears most responsibility for Brexit .
The big moves yesterday were Braverman out and Cameron in so public perception would be divisive moron out and adult in .
I do expect Cameron to have a big role in the general election campaign and I don’t expect him to cause any issues at the foreign office.
In terms of the Red Wall I don’t see him helping with the opposition making hay over his time in office and cuts to public services.
Sunaks attempts to make himself look like the change candidate are over. It looks like Sunak is going for the 2015 voter coalition but he doesn’t have Miliband and the SNP coalition of chaos argument . Given what the Tories have delivered over the last few years the public will laugh at any such attempts .
It's just too hard a sell having tried to be the change candidate. Which itself did not work because he was presented as the no change PM to settle things after Truss.
So he's screwed as the only identity the government can sell is 'confused'.
I’d take something rather different from that clip: it was clearly the end of a longer interview by which point Corbyn’s temper had got the better of him and he was obstinately trying to make a different point about Piers Morgan and his interview style.
Neither man came out of it well, but I don’t think Corbyn’s answer to the question Morgan was asking can be inferred from it, unless your views on Corbyn are already set.
Really?
I mean, really? That's what you get from that? A simple question, with a simple yes/no answer. Avoiding answering makes it quite clear what he thinks.
It's such a simple question, so I'll ask it of you: do you consider Hamas a terrorist group? Yes or no?
Of course not. A terrorist group with a territory is a country.
A terrorist group with undisputed control of a country is a terrorist country. Like Russia or Afghanistan.
A terrorist group with territory is just a terrorist group. Like Hamas, the Tamil Tigers in the past, FARC in the past, ISIS in the past etc
What's worth noting is that contrary to some people's misconceptions, terrorist groups can be defeated militarily and not just by "negotiations".
1. Another huge uturn from Sunak. His "the last 30 years were crap, I am Mr Change" agenda never took off. Bringing back his Great-Great-Great-PM as FS kills it completely. 2. Lord Pigbotherer isn't remotely comparable to Lord Mandy. The latter slimed his way into the machinery of government and brought stability, the former will be sent off to try and sort out Israel and Ukraine and America. 3. Firing Cruella has lit the fuse on the next round ot the Tory civil war. Bringing McVile in as Bigoted Opinions Czar won't appease them, and is about as laughable a role and hire as could have been done.
I know that Cameron has fanbois. But his time is long over - we're on our 4th PM since he flounced. Nor will the things I liked about him be allowed to flourish. No progressive politics allowed in today's Fuck Off Tory Party.
A few people have now posted views that this will only accelerate the Tory collapse towards ELE. Its certainly possible.
WIth every political move, there's the intent that's to be signalled, and the execution, and these can be rather different.
It does seem that the intent to be signalled (rapprochement with centrists) is pissing off his right-wing core, whilst the execution (appointing David Cameron) may piss off those centrists to whom he wishes to appeal.
It's very early days of course, and we could be just inferring disaster from whatever he does (basically continuing the unfortunate trend). If it is like this, then backing out of it won't really be doable, because getting rid of Cameron would signal an intent (backing away from the centrists) to those centrists who didn't appreciate the way he did it in the first place, without necessarily pleasing the right-wing core.
Greensill. Conservative sleaze on steroids. Cameron is up to his neck in it, and Sunak as just appointed someone in full knowledge of that, so now he's directly implicated too.
If only he had form in appointing someone in full knowledge of reasons they should not be. Hmm.
Besides, not like that has harmed PMs before. Pincher? Never heard of him.
And what's in this for Cameron? Foreign Secretary for a year, then an opposition peer for a bit... I can't see a new Tory leader giving him a front-bench role post-GE24 (or GE25), and surely a role in Government post-GE29 (if the Tories win) is pretty unlikely.
He can't be too content with whatever he's doing at the moment if he's happy to jack it all in for such a comparatively paltry return...
Cameron wanted this in 2021. This very website discussed it when they heard he wanted to get back as Foreign Secretary (when Johnson was in charge).
It wasn't a runner then. Johnson doesn't like Cameron and the feeling is mutual, plus the (then) obvious difficulty of making Cameron a Lord and then Foreign Secretary. But Sunak isn't Johnson and he's just ignored all that convention and done it.
Cameron wanted back and he's got it.
Will it help the Conservatives? Hell yes. I still see '120 seats to a majority', and 'Everyone hates the Labour party in Bootle.... except on GE day'.
The Conservatives might not win this, but they could still force a hung parliament.
As a final aside, I think a May 2024 election is now more likely. Sunak's getting his final team ready, and might go whilst they are still in honeymoon period next year.
Cameron creates enemies: I’ve noticed this
There’s a trust weird article in the world’s greatest magazine, the Spectator, where the writer - a friend of Sunak? - keeps overtly hinting he has some personal reason to loathe Cameron - but won’t reveal what it is
I count five references to this mysterious animus in that (not very long) piece. Maybe I woke up on the conspiracy theory side of the bed, but it reads to me awfully like “I have some dirt on Cameron and this is me publicly threatening him that unless he plays nice I’ll reveal it”.
And what's in this for Cameron? Foreign Secretary for a year, then an opposition peer for a bit... I can't see a new Tory leader giving him a front-bench role post-GE24 (or GE25), and surely a role in Government post-GE29 (if the Tories win) is pretty unlikely.
He can't be too content with whatever he's doing at the moment if he's happy to jack it all in for such a comparatively paltry return...
Cameron wanted this in 2021. This very website discussed it when they heard he wanted to get back as Foreign Secretary (when Johnson was in charge).
It wasn't a runner then. Johnson doesn't like Cameron and the feeling is mutual, plus the (then) obvious difficulty of making Cameron a Lord and then Foreign Secretary. But Sunak isn't Johnson and he's just ignored all that convention and done it.
Cameron wanted back and he's got it.
Will it help the Conservatives? Hell yes. I still see '120 seats to a majority', and 'Everyone hates the Labour party in Bootle.... except on GE day'.
The Conservatives might not win this, but they could still force a hung parliament.
As a final aside, I think a May 2024 election is now more likely. Sunak's getting his final team ready, and might go whilst they are still in honeymoon period next year.
Cameron creates enemies: I’ve noticed this
There’s a trust weird article in the world’s greatest magazine, the Spectator, where the writer - a friend of Sunak? - keeps overtly hinting he has some personal reason to loathe Cameron - but won’t reveal what it is
I count five references to this mysterious animus in that (not very long) piece. Maybe I woke up on the conspiracy theory side of the bed, but it reads to me awfully like “I have some dirt on Cameron and this is me publicly threatening him that unless he plays nice I’ll reveal it”.
Yes, it’s quite striking, isn’t it. Also it sounds very personal. Like an adulterous affair or some dark betrayal (these are just speculations!)
Somebody asked on the last thread why nobody had a good word to say about Braverman while she was in office.
I would take issue with this. I had many good words for her.
I just didn't want to say them on here because OGH would have banned me.
Interesting that Sunak had decided to replace her well before the article, having already set in train the Cameron recruitment.
I agree. I suspect they had a bust up a while back. She then went more progressively out on a limb to embarrass him and he lined up a successor . Neither was shocked at the sacking.
It does make him look marginally more decisive than he was being given credit for last week.
It will be interesting to see how much of a role Cameron is given outside if his direct brief. I am guessing his appointment signals a deliberate change in the political complexion of Sunak's government.
Cant see how much will change. Sunak has done little with his tenure as PM.
Hunt will no doubt spring out and claim he has done all this hard work and followed Rishsi plan so we can have a bit of our own money back before an election. Bribing us with our own money as the saying goes. But it will be market day and he wont have done enough to fatten the pig.
We will go in to an election with three parties trying to claim the same space and choice only available at the extremes.
All three parties are hedged in by the same demographic and economic constraints as well as the dead albatross of Brexit, so not surprising that they look the same.
There is no original political thought out there, nor coherent plan for the country.
This dead albatross exists only in your head. The UK has not collapsed post Brexit. Brexits failure is not to have delivered more upside than if we had stayed in, you can debate all day as to why.
The new passports really are nicer, tho
I generously accept this is unlikely to mollify the 10m Remoaners driven mad by Brexit. And they have a point
But the passports are better now - aesthetically. As promised
You could have had the blue passport, as if that matters at all, without the economic slump, political instability, enervation of influence and vast cultural schism though. It was possible within the EU, see Croatia.
No, we needed the moral spur of actual Brexit to give us the glowing self confidence to design our own passports. And deep dark lovely blue, they are
Our EU passports were made in Britain, our Brexit passports are made abroad. I'm sure there's a metaphor in there somewhere.
Sunak seems to be getting a lot of praise for bringing back Dave on here, but have we considered the possibility that this wasn't actually Sunak's move? We've talked a lot recently about the vacuum at the top of Government, that Rishi is tired and looking for the door etc. Could this be confirmation that Hunt is asserting more authority over the Government?
I have to laugh at the so called major drama we were expected to see from Braverman supporters .
We’ve had one no confidence letter from the unhinged Jenkyns and that’s it .
I expect her response to the disappointment of losing in the Supreme Court tomorrow to be even more unhinged, if that is possible, but the upside of her strop not being from a senior government minister is considerable.
Somebody asked on the last thread why nobody had a good word to say about Braverman while she was in office.
I would take issue with this. I had many good words for her.
I just didn't want to say them on here because OGH would have banned me.
Interesting that Sunak had decided to replace her well before the article, having already set in train the Cameron recruitment.
I agree. I suspect they had a bust up a while back. She then went more progressively out on a limb to embarrass him and he lined up a successor . Neither was shocked at the sacking.
It does make him look marginally more decisive than he was being given credit for last week.
It will be interesting to see how much of a role Cameron is given outside if his direct brief. I am guessing his appointment signals a deliberate change in the political complexion of Sunak's government.
Cant see how much will change. Sunak has done little with his tenure as PM.
Hunt will no doubt spring out and claim he has done all this hard work and followed Rishsi plan so we can have a bit of our own money back before an election. Bribing us with our own money as the saying goes. But it will be market day and he wont have done enough to fatten the pig.
We will go in to an election with three parties trying to claim the same space and choice only available at the extremes.
All three parties are hedged in by the same demographic and economic constraints as well as the dead albatross of Brexit, so not surprising that they look the same.
There is no original political thought out there, nor coherent plan for the country.
This dead albatross exists only in your head. The UK has not collapsed post Brexit. Brexits failure is not to have delivered more upside than if we had stayed in, you can debate all day as to why.
The new passports really are nicer, tho
I generously accept this is unlikely to mollify the 10m Remoaners driven mad by Brexit. And they have a point
But the passports are better now - aesthetically. As promised
You could have had the blue passport, as if that matters at all, without the economic slump, political instability, enervation of influence and vast cultural schism though. It was possible within the EU, see Croatia.
No, we needed the moral spur of actual Brexit to give us the glowing self confidence to design our own passports. And deep dark lovely blue, they are
Our EU passports were made in Britain, our Brexit passports are made abroad. I'm sure there's a metaphor in there somewhere.
Yes. Inside the EU we were pinched and parochial. Now we are Global Britain, open to the entire world
Somebody asked on the last thread why nobody had a good word to say about Braverman while she was in office.
I would take issue with this. I had many good words for her.
I just didn't want to say them on here because OGH would have banned me.
Interesting that Sunak had decided to replace her well before the article, having already set in train the Cameron recruitment.
I agree. I suspect they had a bust up a while back. She then went more progressively out on a limb to embarrass him and he lined up a successor . Neither was shocked at the sacking.
It does make him look marginally more decisive than he was being given credit for last week.
It will be interesting to see how much of a role Cameron is given outside if his direct brief. I am guessing his appointment signals a deliberate change in the political complexion of Sunak's government.
Cant see how much will change. Sunak has done little with his tenure as PM.
Hunt will no doubt spring out and claim he has done all this hard work and followed Rishsi plan so we can have a bit of our own money back before an election. Bribing us with our own money as the saying goes. But it will be market day and he wont have done enough to fatten the pig.
We will go in to an election with three parties trying to claim the same space and choice only available at the extremes.
All three parties are hedged in by the same demographic and economic constraints as well as the dead albatross of Brexit, so not surprising that they look the same.
There is no original political thought out there, nor coherent plan for the country.
This dead albatross exists only in your head. The UK has not collapsed post Brexit. Brexits failure is not to have delivered more upside than if we had stayed in, you can debate all day as to why.
The new passports really are nicer, tho
I generously accept this is unlikely to mollify the 10m Remoaners driven mad by Brexit. And they have a point
But the passports are better now - aesthetically. As promised
You could have had the blue passport, as if that matters at all, without the economic slump, political instability, enervation of influence and vast cultural schism though. It was possible within the EU, see Croatia.
No, we needed the moral spur of actual Brexit to give us the glowing self confidence to design our own passports. And deep dark lovely blue, they are
Our EU passports were made in Britain, our Brexit passports are made abroad. I'm sure there's a metaphor in there somewhere.
the metaphor is that we don't manufacture anything ourselves nowadays. Now that isn't actually true but you were talking metaphors.
A similar metaphor is that our future isn't as great as our past. But that's obvious because we don't invest in anything and this Government (and previous ones) don't know how to run a project for toffee...
Somebody asked on the last thread why nobody had a good word to say about Braverman while she was in office.
I would take issue with this. I had many good words for her.
I just didn't want to say them on here because OGH would have banned me.
Interesting that Sunak had decided to replace her well before the article, having already set in train the Cameron recruitment.
I agree. I suspect they had a bust up a while back. She then went more progressively out on a limb to embarrass him and he lined up a successor . Neither was shocked at the sacking.
It does make him look marginally more decisive than he was being given credit for last week.
It will be interesting to see how much of a role Cameron is given outside if his direct brief. I am guessing his appointment signals a deliberate change in the political complexion of Sunak's government.
Cant see how much will change. Sunak has done little with his tenure as PM.
Hunt will no doubt spring out and claim he has done all this hard work and followed Rishsi plan so we can have a bit of our own money back before an election. Bribing us with our own money as the saying goes. But it will be market day and he wont have done enough to fatten the pig.
We will go in to an election with three parties trying to claim the same space and choice only available at the extremes.
All three parties are hedged in by the same demographic and economic constraints as well as the dead albatross of Brexit, so not surprising that they look the same.
There is no original political thought out there, nor coherent plan for the country.
This dead albatross exists only in your head. The UK has not collapsed post Brexit. Brexits failure is not to have delivered more upside than if we had stayed in, you can debate all day as to why.
The new passports really are nicer, tho
I generously accept this is unlikely to mollify the 10m Remoaners driven mad by Brexit. And they have a point
But the passports are better now - aesthetically. As promised
You could have had the blue passport, as if that matters at all, without the economic slump, political instability, enervation of influence and vast cultural schism though. It was possible within the EU, see Croatia.
No, we needed the moral spur of actual Brexit to give us the glowing self confidence to design our own passports. And deep dark lovely blue, they are
Our EU passports were made in Britain, our Brexit passports are made abroad. I'm sure there's a metaphor in there somewhere.
Yes. Inside the EU we were pinched and parochial. Now we are Global Britain, open to the entire world
We once were in a happy marriage. Like one of your paid companions, we're now fu**ed by everyone...
I have to laugh at the so called major drama we were expected to see from Braverman supporters .
We’ve had one no confidence letter from the unhinged Jenkyns and that’s it .
I expect her response to the disappointment of losing in the Supreme Court tomorrow to be even more unhinged, if that is possible, but the upside of her strop not being from a senior government minister is considerable.
Braverman likely doesn't know the outcome, so is keeping quiet until she does.
It is ironic that Cameron has been appointed Foreign Secretary, since most foreign policy during his time as PM was such a disaster. The egregious ones were Syria, Ukraine (in fairness he was better than the Frogs or the Krauts) and sucking up to Commie China. And of course failing to prepare the country for leaving the EU then running away immediately when it voted to.
Still, failing repeatedly never seems to stop people getting top jobs in the public sector. And it was quite amusing to see the commentariat so completely wrong-footed.
Somebody asked on the last thread why nobody had a good word to say about Braverman while she was in office.
I would take issue with this. I had many good words for her.
I just didn't want to say them on here because OGH would have banned me.
Interesting that Sunak had decided to replace her well before the article, having already set in train the Cameron recruitment.
I agree. I suspect they had a bust up a while back. She then went more progressively out on a limb to embarrass him and he lined up a successor . Neither was shocked at the sacking.
It does make him look marginally more decisive than he was being given credit for last week.
It will be interesting to see how much of a role Cameron is given outside if his direct brief. I am guessing his appointment signals a deliberate change in the political complexion of Sunak's government.
Cant see how much will change. Sunak has done little with his tenure as PM.
Hunt will no doubt spring out and claim he has done all this hard work and followed Rishsi plan so we can have a bit of our own money back before an election. Bribing us with our own money as the saying goes. But it will be market day and he wont have done enough to fatten the pig.
We will go in to an election with three parties trying to claim the same space and choice only available at the extremes.
All three parties are hedged in by the same demographic and economic constraints as well as the dead albatross of Brexit, so not surprising that they look the same.
There is no original political thought out there, nor coherent plan for the country.
This dead albatross exists only in your head. The UK has not collapsed post Brexit. Brexits failure is not to have delivered more upside than if we had stayed in, you can debate all day as to why.
The new passports really are nicer, tho
I generously accept this is unlikely to mollify the 10m Remoaners driven mad by Brexit. And they have a point
But the passports are better now - aesthetically. As promised
However, the leader of the Remain campaign has now repented, so I assume they will all follow and become Brexiteers as well.
Somebody asked on the last thread why nobody had a good word to say about Braverman while she was in office.
I would take issue with this. I had many good words for her.
I just didn't want to say them on here because OGH would have banned me.
Interesting that Sunak had decided to replace her well before the article, having already set in train the Cameron recruitment.
I agree. I suspect they had a bust up a while back. She then went more progressively out on a limb to embarrass him and he lined up a successor . Neither was shocked at the sacking.
It does make him look marginally more decisive than he was being given credit for last week.
It will be interesting to see how much of a role Cameron is given outside if his direct brief. I am guessing his appointment signals a deliberate change in the political complexion of Sunak's government.
Cant see how much will change. Sunak has done little with his tenure as PM.
Hunt will no doubt spring out and claim he has done all this hard work and followed Rishsi plan so we can have a bit of our own money back before an election. Bribing us with our own money as the saying goes. But it will be market day and he wont have done enough to fatten the pig.
We will go in to an election with three parties trying to claim the same space and choice only available at the extremes.
All three parties are hedged in by the same demographic and economic constraints as well as the dead albatross of Brexit, so not surprising that they look the same.
There is no original political thought out there, nor coherent plan for the country.
This dead albatross exists only in your head. The UK has not collapsed post Brexit. Brexits failure is not to have delivered more upside than if we had stayed in, you can debate all day as to why.
The new passports really are nicer, tho
I generously accept this is unlikely to mollify the 10m Remoaners driven mad by Brexit. And they have a point
But the passports are better now - aesthetically. As promised
You could have had the blue passport, as if that matters at all, without the economic slump, political instability, enervation of influence and vast cultural schism though. It was possible within the EU, see Croatia.
No, we needed the moral spur of actual Brexit to give us the glowing self confidence to design our own passports. And deep dark lovely blue, they are
I've got to say that "glowing self-confidence" doesn't appear to be overt characteristic of post-2016 UK.
I hope Starmer switches them back to red. That'd be funny.
I have to laugh at the so called major drama we were expected to see from Braverman supporters .
We’ve had one no confidence letter from the unhinged Jenkyns and that’s it .
I expect her response to the disappointment of losing in the Supreme Court tomorrow to be even more unhinged, if that is possible, but the upside of her strop not being from a senior government minister is considerable.
Braverman likely doesn't know the outcome, so is keeping quiet until she does.
The parties will have found out yesterday or first thing today at the latest. The Supreme Court has a slightly odd procedure by which the decision is distributed to the parties so that they can point out any obvious errors before it is made public. They are of course sworn to secrecy.
The SC normally release the ruling earlier to the parties involved but that’s not happening this time . The first the government will know is the same as the general public .
Somebody asked on the last thread why nobody had a good word to say about Braverman while she was in office.
I would take issue with this. I had many good words for her.
I just didn't want to say them on here because OGH would have banned me.
Interesting that Sunak had decided to replace her well before the article, having already set in train the Cameron recruitment.
I agree. I suspect they had a bust up a while back. She then went more progressively out on a limb to embarrass him and he lined up a successor . Neither was shocked at the sacking.
It does make him look marginally more decisive than he was being given credit for last week.
It will be interesting to see how much of a role Cameron is given outside if his direct brief. I am guessing his appointment signals a deliberate change in the political complexion of Sunak's government.
Cant see how much will change. Sunak has done little with his tenure as PM.
Hunt will no doubt spring out and claim he has done all this hard work and followed Rishsi plan so we can have a bit of our own money back before an election. Bribing us with our own money as the saying goes. But it will be market day and he wont have done enough to fatten the pig.
We will go in to an election with three parties trying to claim the same space and choice only available at the extremes.
All three parties are hedged in by the same demographic and economic constraints as well as the dead albatross of Brexit, so not surprising that they look the same.
There is no original political thought out there, nor coherent plan for the country.
This dead albatross exists only in your head. The UK has not collapsed post Brexit. Brexits failure is not to have delivered more upside than if we had stayed in, you can debate all day as to why.
The new passports really are nicer, tho
I generously accept this is unlikely to mollify the 10m Remoaners driven mad by Brexit. And they have a point
But the passports are better now - aesthetically. As promised
You could have had the blue passport, as if that matters at all, without the economic slump, political instability, enervation of influence and vast cultural schism though. It was possible within the EU, see Croatia.
No, we needed the moral spur of actual Brexit to give us the glowing self confidence to design our own passports. And deep dark lovely blue, they are
I've got to say that "glowing self-confidence" doesn't appear to be overt characteristic of post-2016 UK.
I hope Starmer switches them back to red. That'd be funny.
Not gonna happen tho, is it? He’s too scared of the Brexit demons (and afraid people will remember his 2nd voteness). So it won’t be reversed just like Brexit won’t be reversed. Brexit is done. Cope
I have to laugh at the so called major drama we were expected to see from Braverman supporters .
We’ve had one no confidence letter from the unhinged Jenkyns and that’s it .
Sue-Ellen didn't do herself any favours with the CPP with her attack on homeless people as many of them are former veterans suffering from PTSD, substance abuse and other mental health issues.
I think it may save them a couple of seats, if he gets some prominence. But that's all. It's a slight indication that the Conservatives may not shift more to the weirdo right.
The fact the Labour attack dogs are going for him so strongly, shows they think he is a threat.
Yes, that's about it, JJ. Maybe a dozen seats, I would say - partly because he is a figure of substance (as opposed to, say, Silly Suella) and partly because it indicates an edging away from the right towards the more defensible centre ground.
Labour will take him seriously, but the outcome of the next GE looks as nailed on as ever. Tories to lose about 150 seats is what I am predicting now.
I think the Cameron resurrection is a threat primarily to the Lib Dems, whose voters have fond memories of the sunny days in the Rose Garden and for whom Cameron in his hug a hoodie pomp represents the acceptable face of Toryism. Voters in the seats Labour is targeting remember the coalition years primarily for the austerity that Cameron and his Lib Dem useful idiots visited on their communities. They will despise Cameron either for calling the Brexit referendum, or for being a Remainer. Labour will be happy to have Cameron back, but the Lib Dems will be worried.
Cameron was good at the dispatch box in PMQs, as he indeed thought beforehand that he could be. As Foreign Minister he won't have much impact on the electorate. But his earlier forays into foreign affairs don't augur well. We'll see soon enough whether his disdain for Boris Johnson leads him to downplay Ukraine where Boris is a hero.
It is ironic that Cameron has been appointed Foreign Secretary, since most foreign policy during his time as PM was such a disaster. The egregious ones were Syria, Ukraine (in fairness he was better than the Frogs or the Krauts) and sucking up to Commie China. And of course failing to prepare the country for leaving the EU then running away immediately when it voted to.
Still, failing repeatedly never seems to stop people getting top jobs in the public sector. And it was quite amusing to see the commentariat so completely wrong-footed.
Also: Libya
Cameron was terrible. All he ever did was gay marriage. That’s it
Somebody asked on the last thread why nobody had a good word to say about Braverman while she was in office.
I would take issue with this. I had many good words for her.
I just didn't want to say them on here because OGH would have banned me.
Interesting that Sunak had decided to replace her well before the article, having already set in train the Cameron recruitment.
I agree. I suspect they had a bust up a while back. She then went more progressively out on a limb to embarrass him and he lined up a successor . Neither was shocked at the sacking.
It does make him look marginally more decisive than he was being given credit for last week.
It will be interesting to see how much of a role Cameron is given outside if his direct brief. I am guessing his appointment signals a deliberate change in the political complexion of Sunak's government.
Cant see how much will change. Sunak has done little with his tenure as PM.
Hunt will no doubt spring out and claim he has done all this hard work and followed Rishsi plan so we can have a bit of our own money back before an election. Bribing us with our own money as the saying goes. But it will be market day and he wont have done enough to fatten the pig.
We will go in to an election with three parties trying to claim the same space and choice only available at the extremes.
All three parties are hedged in by the same demographic and economic constraints as well as the dead albatross of Brexit, so not surprising that they look the same.
There is no original political thought out there, nor coherent plan for the country.
This dead albatross exists only in your head. The UK has not collapsed post Brexit. Brexits failure is not to have delivered more upside than if we had stayed in, you can debate all day as to why.
The new passports really are nicer, tho
I generously accept this is unlikely to mollify the 10m Remoaners driven mad by Brexit. And they have a point
But the passports are better now - aesthetically. As promised
You could have had the blue passport, as if that matters at all, without the economic slump, political instability, enervation of influence and vast cultural schism though. It was possible within the EU, see Croatia.
No, we needed the moral spur of actual Brexit to give us the glowing self confidence to design our own passports. And deep dark lovely blue, they are
Our EU passports were made in Britain, our Brexit passports are made abroad. I'm sure there's a metaphor in there somewhere.
Yes. Inside the EU we were pinched and parochial. Now we are Global Britain, open to the entire world
But we're sourcing the passports from the EU, almost as if those countries are our natural trading partners. Go figure!
Somebody asked on the last thread why nobody had a good word to say about Braverman while she was in office.
I would take issue with this. I had many good words for her.
I just didn't want to say them on here because OGH would have banned me.
Interesting that Sunak had decided to replace her well before the article, having already set in train the Cameron recruitment.
I agree. I suspect they had a bust up a while back. She then went more progressively out on a limb to embarrass him and he lined up a successor . Neither was shocked at the sacking.
It does make him look marginally more decisive than he was being given credit for last week.
It will be interesting to see how much of a role Cameron is given outside if his direct brief. I am guessing his appointment signals a deliberate change in the political complexion of Sunak's government.
Cant see how much will change. Sunak has done little with his tenure as PM.
Hunt will no doubt spring out and claim he has done all this hard work and followed Rishsi plan so we can have a bit of our own money back before an election. Bribing us with our own money as the saying goes. But it will be market day and he wont have done enough to fatten the pig.
We will go in to an election with three parties trying to claim the same space and choice only available at the extremes.
All three parties are hedged in by the same demographic and economic constraints as well as the dead albatross of Brexit, so not surprising that they look the same.
There is no original political thought out there, nor coherent plan for the country.
This dead albatross exists only in your head. The UK has not collapsed post Brexit. Brexits failure is not to have delivered more upside than if we had stayed in, you can debate all day as to why.
The new passports really are nicer, tho
I generously accept this is unlikely to mollify the 10m Remoaners driven mad by Brexit. And they have a point
But the passports are better now - aesthetically. As promised
You could have had the blue passport, as if that matters at all, without the economic slump, political instability, enervation of influence and vast cultural schism though. It was possible within the EU, see Croatia.
No, we needed the moral spur of actual Brexit to give us the glowing self confidence to design our own passports. And deep dark lovely blue, they are
Our EU passports were made in Britain, our Brexit passports are made abroad. I'm sure there's a metaphor in there somewhere.
Yes. Inside the EU we were pinched and parochial. Now we are Global Britain, open to the entire world
But we're sourcing the passports from the EU, almost as if those countries are our natural trading partners. Go figure!
That just underlines our new confident and generous spirit
Somebody asked on the last thread why nobody had a good word to say about Braverman while she was in office.
I would take issue with this. I had many good words for her.
I just didn't want to say them on here because OGH would have banned me.
Interesting that Sunak had decided to replace her well before the article, having already set in train the Cameron recruitment.
I agree. I suspect they had a bust up a while back. She then went more progressively out on a limb to embarrass him and he lined up a successor . Neither was shocked at the sacking.
It does make him look marginally more decisive than he was being given credit for last week.
It will be interesting to see how much of a role Cameron is given outside if his direct brief. I am guessing his appointment signals a deliberate change in the political complexion of Sunak's government.
Cant see how much will change. Sunak has done little with his tenure as PM.
Hunt will no doubt spring out and claim he has done all this hard work and followed Rishsi plan so we can have a bit of our own money back before an election. Bribing us with our own money as the saying goes. But it will be market day and he wont have done enough to fatten the pig.
We will go in to an election with three parties trying to claim the same space and choice only available at the extremes.
All three parties are hedged in by the same demographic and economic constraints as well as the dead albatross of Brexit, so not surprising that they look the same.
There is no original political thought out there, nor coherent plan for the country.
This dead albatross exists only in your head. The UK has not collapsed post Brexit. Brexits failure is not to have delivered more upside than if we had stayed in, you can debate all day as to why.
The new passports really are nicer, tho
I generously accept this is unlikely to mollify the 10m Remoaners driven mad by Brexit. And they have a point
But the passports are better now - aesthetically. As promised
You could have had the blue passport, as if that matters at all, without the economic slump, political instability, enervation of influence and vast cultural schism though. It was possible within the EU, see Croatia.
No, we needed the moral spur of actual Brexit to give us the glowing self confidence to design our own passports. And deep dark lovely blue, they are
I've got to say that "glowing self-confidence" doesn't appear to be overt characteristic of post-2016 UK.
I hope Starmer switches them back to red. That'd be funny.
Not gonna happen tho, is it? He’s too scared of the Brexit demons (and afraid people will remember his 2nd voteness). So it won’t be reversed just like Brexit won’t be reversed. Brexit is done. Cope
It’s sad to see all these EU-philes constantly bang on about Europe and obsess over an invented past (their fantasy 1990s) that never really was. It’s just like the referendum party in 1995.
It is ironic that Cameron has been appointed Foreign Secretary, since most foreign policy during his time as PM was such a disaster. The egregious ones were Syria, Ukraine (in fairness he was better than the Frogs or the Krauts) and sucking up to Commie China. And of course failing to prepare the country for leaving the EU then running away immediately when it voted to.
Still, failing repeatedly never seems to stop people getting top jobs in the public sector. And it was quite amusing to see the commentariat so completely wrong-footed.
Also: Libya
Cameron was terrible. All he ever did was gay marriage. That’s it
Somebody asked on the last thread why nobody had a good word to say about Braverman while she was in office.
I would take issue with this. I had many good words for her.
I just didn't want to say them on here because OGH would have banned me.
Interesting that Sunak had decided to replace her well before the article, having already set in train the Cameron recruitment.
I agree. I suspect they had a bust up a while back. She then went more progressively out on a limb to embarrass him and he lined up a successor . Neither was shocked at the sacking.
It does make him look marginally more decisive than he was being given credit for last week.
It will be interesting to see how much of a role Cameron is given outside if his direct brief. I am guessing his appointment signals a deliberate change in the political complexion of Sunak's government.
Cant see how much will change. Sunak has done little with his tenure as PM.
Hunt will no doubt spring out and claim he has done all this hard work and followed Rishsi plan so we can have a bit of our own money back before an election. Bribing us with our own money as the saying goes. But it will be market day and he wont have done enough to fatten the pig.
We will go in to an election with three parties trying to claim the same space and choice only available at the extremes.
All three parties are hedged in by the same demographic and economic constraints as well as the dead albatross of Brexit, so not surprising that they look the same.
There is no original political thought out there, nor coherent plan for the country.
This dead albatross exists only in your head. The UK has not collapsed post Brexit. Brexits failure is not to have delivered more upside than if we had stayed in, you can debate all day as to why.
The new passports really are nicer, tho
I generously accept this is unlikely to mollify the 10m Remoaners driven mad by Brexit. And they have a point
But the passports are better now - aesthetically. As promised
You could have had the blue passport, as if that matters at all, without the economic slump, political instability, enervation of influence and vast cultural schism though. It was possible within the EU, see Croatia.
No, we needed the moral spur of actual Brexit to give us the glowing self confidence to design our own passports. And deep dark lovely blue, they are
Our EU passports were made in Britain, our Brexit passports are made abroad. I'm sure there's a metaphor in there somewhere.
Yes. Inside the EU we were pinched and parochial. Now we are Global Britain, open to the entire world
But we're sourcing the passports from the EU, almost as if those countries are our natural trading partners. Go figure!
That just underlines our new confident and generous spirit
It’s basically foreign aid. We should consider it within the 0.7%.
Pay outstripping price increases by the most for 2 years. And the gap is likely to continue widening in the next few months.
Does better economic news not make it look like a bigger political mistake to have removed Boris Johnson? He'd have been the best placed to claim vindication and run a boosterist campaign.
Brexiteers this morning still desperately trying to convince themselves the shitshow they voted for is as good as it is going to get and we should all be happy about it
Camo pissed off Leavers by being the Remainer in Chief.
Camo pissed off a lot of people by walking away (humming) and leaving everyone else to sort out Brexit while he sat in a posh hut and increased his bank balance.
But at least one PBer thinks he is the Golden Child. So things will be fine.
Pay outstripping price increases by the most for 2 years. And the gap is likely to continue widening in the next few months.
Does better economic news not make it look like a bigger political mistake to have removed Boris Johnson? He'd have been the best placed to claim vindication and run a boosterist campaign.
Agree. I think this might help, but basically they need something to make the public move from “meh” to actively disliking Starmer. Gaza is doing that a bit on the far left, and might drop him some votes, but they need a mainstream impact. He’s too clever and too boring to give them one.
Somebody asked on the last thread why nobody had a good word to say about Braverman while she was in office.
I would take issue with this. I had many good words for her.
I just didn't want to say them on here because OGH would have banned me.
Interesting that Sunak had decided to replace her well before the article, having already set in train the Cameron recruitment.
I agree. I suspect they had a bust up a while back. She then went more progressively out on a limb to embarrass him and he lined up a successor . Neither was shocked at the sacking.
It does make him look marginally more decisive than he was being given credit for last week.
It will be interesting to see how much of a role Cameron is given outside if his direct brief. I am guessing his appointment signals a deliberate change in the political complexion of Sunak's government.
Cant see how much will change. Sunak has done little with his tenure as PM.
Hunt will no doubt spring out and claim he has done all this hard work and followed Rishsi plan so we can have a bit of our own money back before an election. Bribing us with our own money as the saying goes. But it will be market day and he wont have done enough to fatten the pig.
We will go in to an election with three parties trying to claim the same space and choice only available at the extremes.
All three parties are hedged in by the same demographic and economic constraints as well as the dead albatross of Brexit, so not surprising that they look the same.
There is no original political thought out there, nor coherent plan for the country.
This dead albatross exists only in your head. The UK has not collapsed post Brexit. Brexits failure is not to have delivered more upside than if we had stayed in, you can debate all day as to why.
The new passports really are nicer, tho
I generously accept this is unlikely to mollify the 10m Remoaners driven mad by Brexit. And they have a point
But the passports are better now - aesthetically. As promised
You could have had the blue passport, as if that matters at all, without the economic slump, political instability, enervation of influence and vast cultural schism though. It was possible within the EU, see Croatia.
No, we needed the moral spur of actual Brexit to give us the glowing self confidence to design our own passports. And deep dark lovely blue, they are
Our EU passports were made in Britain, our Brexit passports are made abroad. I'm sure there's a metaphor in there somewhere.
Yes. Inside the EU we were pinched and parochial. Now we are Global Britain, open to the entire world
But we're sourcing the passports from the EU, almost as if those countries are our natural trading partners. Go figure!
It's fairly Eurosceptic to see the EU as a group of "trading partners" rather than a nascent European state.
Pay outstripping price increases by the most for 2 years. And the gap is likely to continue widening in the next few months.
Does better economic news not make it look like a bigger political mistake to have removed Boris Johnson? He'd have been the best placed to claim vindication and run a boosterist campaign.
In isolation yes, but Boris had a number of other issues, the cumulative effect of which was that no one sensible would believe a word he was saying about anything.
Brexiteers this morning still desperately trying to convince themselves the shitshow they voted for is as good as it is going to get and we should all be happy about it
You see? The defection of the Leader of the Remain campaign is already making you think positively about Brexit. The implication of the above is that you don’t think this is as good as is it going to get. I quite agreed.
Well done Lord Cameron, you are bringing your flock home.
It is ironic that Cameron has been appointed Foreign Secretary, since most foreign policy during his time as PM was such a disaster. The egregious ones were Syria, Ukraine (in fairness he was better than the Frogs or the Krauts) and sucking up to Commie China. And of course failing to prepare the country for leaving the EU then running away immediately when it voted to.
Still, failing repeatedly never seems to stop people getting top jobs in the public sector. And it was quite amusing to see the commentariat so completely wrong-footed.
Also: Libya
Cameron was terrible. All he ever did was gay marriage. That’s it
And he couldn't take the majority of his party on that. He personally voted the right way, but the legislation only made it to Parliament due to his Lib Dem coalition partners (particularly Lynne Featherstone as the relevant minister) and only passed due to Lib Dem and Labour votes.
Not gonna happen tho, is it? He’s too scared of the Brexit demons (and afraid people will remember his 2nd voteness). So it won’t be reversed just like Brexit won’t be reversed. Brexit is done. Cope
I doubt I will see rejoin in my lifetime but the UK is just going to drift into ever closer alignment with the EU one small step at a time to avoid alarming fat people who give their kids names like 'Jaxtynn'.
See CBAM this week. There will be much more like this from Starmer who, as we all know, is utterly devoid of any governing principle will do much, much more of this.
Somebody asked on the last thread why nobody had a good word to say about Braverman while she was in office.
I would take issue with this. I had many good words for her.
I just didn't want to say them on here because OGH would have banned me.
Interesting that Sunak had decided to replace her well before the article, having already set in train the Cameron recruitment.
I agree. I suspect they had a bust up a while back. She then went more progressively out on a limb to embarrass him and he lined up a successor . Neither was shocked at the sacking.
It does make him look marginally more decisive than he was being given credit for last week.
It will be interesting to see how much of a role Cameron is given outside if his direct brief. I am guessing his appointment signals a deliberate change in the political complexion of Sunak's government.
Cant see how much will change. Sunak has done little with his tenure as PM.
Hunt will no doubt spring out and claim he has done all this hard work and followed Rishsi plan so we can have a bit of our own money back before an election. Bribing us with our own money as the saying goes. But it will be market day and he wont have done enough to fatten the pig.
We will go in to an election with three parties trying to claim the same space and choice only available at the extremes.
All three parties are hedged in by the same demographic and economic constraints as well as the dead albatross of Brexit, so not surprising that they look the same.
There is no original political thought out there, nor coherent plan for the country.
This dead albatross exists only in your head. The UK has not collapsed post Brexit. Brexits failure is not to have delivered more upside than if we had stayed in, you can debate all day as to why.
The new passports really are nicer, tho
I generously accept this is unlikely to mollify the 10m Remoaners driven mad by Brexit. And they have a point
But the passports are better now - aesthetically. As promised
You could have had the blue passport, as if that matters at all, without the economic slump, political instability, enervation of influence and vast cultural schism though. It was possible within the EU, see Croatia.
No, we needed the moral spur of actual Brexit to give us the glowing self confidence to design our own passports. And deep dark lovely blue, they are
I've got to say that "glowing self-confidence" doesn't appear to be overt characteristic of post-2016 UK.
I hope Starmer switches them back to red. That'd be funny.
Passport red should always be preferred to as Burgundy for extra filthy Remainer points. I renewed mine just before the great change to patriotic, French-manufactured blue passports, so will have my Burgundy passport for a few years yet.
Holden Dick utterly destroyed by Ed Balls on GMB. It’s becoming the best show on telly. Balls is a proper old school bruiser.
Is that the new Tory chairman fellow? He was terrible on R4 Today this morning, hopeless. He was much less articulate than the Aussie who had been on earlier describing how he took 6 wickets in 6 balls, who was dryly hilarious.
Somebody asked on the last thread why nobody had a good word to say about Braverman while she was in office.
I would take issue with this. I had many good words for her.
I just didn't want to say them on here because OGH would have banned me.
Interesting that Sunak had decided to replace her well before the article, having already set in train the Cameron recruitment.
I agree. I suspect they had a bust up a while back. She then went more progressively out on a limb to embarrass him and he lined up a successor . Neither was shocked at the sacking.
It does make him look marginally more decisive than he was being given credit for last week.
It will be interesting to see how much of a role Cameron is given outside if his direct brief. I am guessing his appointment signals a deliberate change in the political complexion of Sunak's government.
Cant see how much will change. Sunak has done little with his tenure as PM.
Hunt will no doubt spring out and claim he has done all this hard work and followed Rishsi plan so we can have a bit of our own money back before an election. Bribing us with our own money as the saying goes. But it will be market day and he wont have done enough to fatten the pig.
We will go in to an election with three parties trying to claim the same space and choice only available at the extremes.
All three parties are hedged in by the same demographic and economic constraints as well as the dead albatross of Brexit, so not surprising that they look the same.
There is no original political thought out there, nor coherent plan for the country.
This dead albatross exists only in your head. The UK has not collapsed post Brexit. Brexits failure is not to have delivered more upside than if we had stayed in, you can debate all day as to why.
The new passports really are nicer, tho
I generously accept this is unlikely to mollify the 10m Remoaners driven mad by Brexit. And they have a point
But the passports are better now - aesthetically. As promised
You could have had the blue passport, as if that matters at all, without the economic slump, political instability, enervation of influence and vast cultural schism though. It was possible within the EU, see Croatia.
No, we needed the moral spur of actual Brexit to give us the glowing self confidence to design our own passports. And deep dark lovely blue, they are
I've got to say that "glowing self-confidence" doesn't appear to be overt characteristic of post-2016 UK.
I hope Starmer switches them back to red. That'd be funny.
Passport red should always be preferred to as Burgundy for extra filthy Remainer points. I renewed mine just before the great change to patriotic, French-manufactured blue passports, so will have my Burgundy passport for a few years yet.
Somebody asked on the last thread why nobody had a good word to say about Braverman while she was in office.
I would take issue with this. I had many good words for her.
I just didn't want to say them on here because OGH would have banned me.
Interesting that Sunak had decided to replace her well before the article, having already set in train the Cameron recruitment.
I agree. I suspect they had a bust up a while back. She then went more progressively out on a limb to embarrass him and he lined up a successor . Neither was shocked at the sacking.
It does make him look marginally more decisive than he was being given credit for last week.
It will be interesting to see how much of a role Cameron is given outside if his direct brief. I am guessing his appointment signals a deliberate change in the political complexion of Sunak's government.
Cant see how much will change. Sunak has done little with his tenure as PM.
Hunt will no doubt spring out and claim he has done all this hard work and followed Rishsi plan so we can have a bit of our own money back before an election. Bribing us with our own money as the saying goes. But it will be market day and he wont have done enough to fatten the pig.
We will go in to an election with three parties trying to claim the same space and choice only available at the extremes.
All three parties are hedged in by the same demographic and economic constraints as well as the dead albatross of Brexit, so not surprising that they look the same.
There is no original political thought out there, nor coherent plan for the country.
This dead albatross exists only in your head. The UK has not collapsed post Brexit. Brexits failure is not to have delivered more upside than if we had stayed in, you can debate all day as to why.
The new passports really are nicer, tho
I generously accept this is unlikely to mollify the 10m Remoaners driven mad by Brexit. And they have a point
But the passports are better now - aesthetically. As promised
You could have had the blue passport, as if that matters at all, without the economic slump, political instability, enervation of influence and vast cultural schism though. It was possible within the EU, see Croatia.
No, we needed the moral spur of actual Brexit to give us the glowing self confidence to design our own passports. And deep dark lovely blue, they are
I've got to say that "glowing self-confidence" doesn't appear to be overt characteristic of post-2016 UK.
I hope Starmer switches them back to red. That'd be funny.
David Tennant back in the Tardis. David Cameron back in the government.
Things always come in threes. Whatever next?
The Queen back in Buckingham Palace.
We've had the pandemic, but we've not had the zombie apocalypse yet.
I think the third one is likely to involve another David.
Possibly a university chair in Sports Science for David Beckham?
David Davis to resign an call a by-election on a matter of petulant self-indulgence?
If I may, the propensity of David Davis to resign on a point of principle is his saving grace. He did not demonstrate political nor organisational skills during his career but he has demonstrated principle, which is not common
Somebody asked on the last thread why nobody had a good word to say about Braverman while she was in office.
I would take issue with this. I had many good words for her.
I just didn't want to say them on here because OGH would have banned me.
Interesting that Sunak had decided to replace her well before the article, having already set in train the Cameron recruitment.
I agree. I suspect they had a bust up a while back. She then went more progressively out on a limb to embarrass him and he lined up a successor . Neither was shocked at the sacking.
It does make him look marginally more decisive than he was being given credit for last week.
It will be interesting to see how much of a role Cameron is given outside if his direct brief. I am guessing his appointment signals a deliberate change in the political complexion of Sunak's government.
Cant see how much will change. Sunak has done little with his tenure as PM.
Hunt will no doubt spring out and claim he has done all this hard work and followed Rishsi plan so we can have a bit of our own money back before an election. Bribing us with our own money as the saying goes. But it will be market day and he wont have done enough to fatten the pig.
We will go in to an election with three parties trying to claim the same space and choice only available at the extremes.
All three parties are hedged in by the same demographic and economic constraints as well as the dead albatross of Brexit, so not surprising that they look the same.
There is no original political thought out there, nor coherent plan for the country.
This dead albatross exists only in your head. The UK has not collapsed post Brexit. Brexits failure is not to have delivered more upside than if we had stayed in, you can debate all day as to why.
The new passports really are nicer, tho
I generously accept this is unlikely to mollify the 10m Remoaners driven mad by Brexit. And they have a point
But the passports are better now - aesthetically. As promised
You could have had the blue passport, as if that matters at all, without the economic slump, political instability, enervation of influence and vast cultural schism though. It was possible within the EU, see Croatia.
No, we needed the moral spur of actual Brexit to give us the glowing self confidence to design our own passports. And deep dark lovely blue, they are
I've got to say that "glowing self-confidence" doesn't appear to be overt characteristic of post-2016 UK.
I hope Starmer switches them back to red. That'd be funny.
Passport red should always be preferred to as Burgundy for extra filthy Remainer points. I renewed mine just before the great change to patriotic, French-manufactured blue passports, so will have my Burgundy passport for a few years yet.
The last time I came back from Germany some guy in the immigration queue had a "Captain Tom" passport cover. I tried to take a covert photo for the "okmatewanker" subreddit but lacked the subterfuge skills.
It is ironic that Cameron has been appointed Foreign Secretary, since most foreign policy during his time as PM was such a disaster. The egregious ones were Syria, Ukraine (in fairness he was better than the Frogs or the Krauts) and sucking up to Commie China. And of course failing to prepare the country for leaving the EU then running away immediately when it voted to.
Still, failing repeatedly never seems to stop people getting top jobs in the public sector. And it was quite amusing to see the commentariat so completely wrong-footed.
Also: Libya
Cameron was terrible. All he ever did was gay marriage. That’s it
On Ukraine, the government launched Operation Orbital in January 2015. So firmly in Cameron's plus-ledger. On Syria, he tried to do the right thing, but Miliband's weaselly treachery did that in. On the EU, he got a renegotiation, and offered a referendum on it. But the bastards wanted power for themselves (mainly one tousle-haired bastard, anyway...) On Scotland, he offered, and won, a referendum.
The government seem to be briefing to the media that they’re likely to lose the SC appeal . Not sure why as they have a good chance of winning . The appeal isn’t over the morality or workability of the Rwanda plan in the UK but over whether Rwanda can be trusted to process claims fairly without a risk of them being deported to unsafe countries .
Not gonna happen tho, is it? He’s too scared of the Brexit demons (and afraid people will remember his 2nd voteness). So it won’t be reversed just like Brexit won’t be reversed. Brexit is done. Cope
I doubt I will see rejoin in my lifetime but the UK is just going to drift into ever closer alignment with the EU one small step at a time to avoid alarming fat people who give their kids names like 'Jaxtynn'.
See CBAM this week. There will be much more like this from Starmer who, as we all know, is utterly devoid of any governing principle will do much, much more of this.
I disagree. Forces will be centripetal as well as centrifugal
We are already diverting significantly in several areas
I doubt if Cameron makes much difference to the Tories electorally, any gains from Labour and the LDs in the bluewall would likely be offset by losses to Labour and Reform in the redwall.
However he is a capable figure in the Foreign Secretary role who will be respected abroad, much like David Miliband was in the last year's of the Brown government. Also good for Cameron who gets grace and favour properties and foreign travel
David Tennant back in the Tardis. David Cameron back in the government.
Things always come in threes. Whatever next?
The Queen back in Buckingham Palace.
We've had the pandemic, but we've not had the zombie apocalypse yet.
I think the third one is likely to involve another David.
Possibly a university chair in Sports Science for David Beckham?
David Davis to resign an call a by-election on a matter of petulant self-indulgence?
If I may, the propensity of David Davis to resign on a point of principle is his saving grace. He did not demonstrate political nor organisational skills during his career but he has demonstrated principle, which is not common
I'm talking about his 2008 resignation as an MP to force a by-election. Which had no effect at all on the government, and just acted as a "look at me!" vanity project.
Although it did have the advantage of making Andy Burnham look like the tit he is...
The government seem to be briefing to the media that they’re likely to lose the SC appeal . Not sure why as they have a good chance of winning . The appeal isn’t over the morality or workability of the Rwanda plan in the UK but over whether Rwanda can be trusted to process claims fairly without a risk of them being deported to unsafe countries .
Both Labour and Tory parties need the SC to kill the Rwanda thing. Tories because it won't work, Labour because they need to be not landed with it in 12 months time.
It is ironic that Cameron has been appointed Foreign Secretary, since most foreign policy during his time as PM was such a disaster. The egregious ones were Syria, Ukraine (in fairness he was better than the Frogs or the Krauts) and sucking up to Commie China. And of course failing to prepare the country for leaving the EU then running away immediately when it voted to.
Still, failing repeatedly never seems to stop people getting top jobs in the public sector. And it was quite amusing to see the commentariat so completely wrong-footed.
Cameron did want to bomb Assad after he gassed the childrens' hospital but Parliament voted it down with Ed Miliband leading opposition and then Obama also abandoned the idea. However that may have been the best decision of a bad lot as Assad is still in power and however bad he is he is still better than IS
Foreign Minister Dmytro Kuleba confirms Bloomberg's report that the EU will not be able to deliver one million artillery shells to Ukraine by March. The minister believes that the reason for this problem is the "deplorable state of the EU's defense industry". https://twitter.com/Hromadske/status/1724329093875802543
Most of their current supply is reportedly from S Korean stocks.
I asked a question on here about this a while ago. I understand that our munitions manufacturing capability is also woeful. Perhaps Lord Greensill's first trip should be to S Korea.
We've invested in a new manufacturing contract (£2.4 bn over 15 years iirc) and a new factory or two in BAE.
But no actual numbers have been published, so we can't tell anything meaningful.
If it was all 155mm shells, I make it that it would be a little under a million - but that covers everything I think, from rifle calibre up.
I think it may save them a couple of seats, if he gets some prominence. But that's all. It's a slight indication that the Conservatives may not shift more to the weirdo right.
The fact the Labour attack dogs are going for him so strongly, shows they think he is a threat.
Yes, that's about it, JJ. Maybe a dozen seats, I would say - partly because he is a figure of substance (as opposed to, say, Silly Suella) and partly because it indicates an edging away from the right towards the more defensible centre ground.
Labour will take him seriously, but the outcome of the next GE looks as nailed on as ever. Tories to lose about 150 seats is what I am predicting now.
I think the Cameron resurrection is a threat primarily to the Lib Dems, whose voters have fond memories of the sunny days in the Rose Garden and for whom Cameron in his hug a hoodie pomp represents the acceptable face of Toryism. Voters in the seats Labour is targeting remember the coalition years primarily for the austerity that Cameron and his Lib Dem useful idiots visited on their communities. They will despise Cameron either for calling the Brexit referendum, or for being a Remainer. Labour will be happy to have Cameron back, but the Lib Dems will be worried.
Yes Cameron may save a seat or two in Surrey and Oxfordshire from the LDs, including his former constituency of Witney.
I doubt he makes much difference to seats Labour are targeting however
It is ironic that Cameron has been appointed Foreign Secretary, since most foreign policy during his time as PM was such a disaster. The egregious ones were Syria, Ukraine (in fairness he was better than the Frogs or the Krauts) and sucking up to Commie China. And of course failing to prepare the country for leaving the EU then running away immediately when it voted to.
Still, failing repeatedly never seems to stop people getting top jobs in the public sector. And it was quite amusing to see the commentariat so completely wrong-footed.
Cameron did want to bomb Assad after he gassed the childrens' hospital but Parliament voted it down with Ed Miliband leading opposition and then Obama also abandoned the idea. However that may have been the best decision of a bad lot as Assad is still in power and however bad he is he is still better than IS
On the other hand, he has continued gassing, and allowed Russia in to bomb civilians (yes, including hospitals...) and train. We should not in any way support Assad just because IS are awful. We need to defeat both.
The government seem to be briefing to the media that they’re likely to lose the SC appeal . Not sure why as they have a good chance of winning . The appeal isn’t over the morality or workability of the Rwanda plan in the UK but over whether Rwanda can be trusted to process claims fairly without a risk of them being deported to unsafe countries .
Both Labour and Tory parties need the SC to kill the Rwanda thing. Tories because it won't work, Labour because they need to be not landed with it in 12 months time.
Could the SC please do the decent thing?
Fortunately, in addition to it being a terrible policy, the Government Legal Service has a good record of losing winnable cases.
Foreign Minister Dmytro Kuleba confirms Bloomberg's report that the EU will not be able to deliver one million artillery shells to Ukraine by March. The minister believes that the reason for this problem is the "deplorable state of the EU's defense industry". https://twitter.com/Hromadske/status/1724329093875802543
Most of their current supply is reportedly from S Korean stocks.
I asked a question on here about this a while ago. I understand that our munitions manufacturing capability is also woeful. Perhaps Lord Greensill's first trip should be to S Korea.
We've invested in a new manufacturing contract (£2.4 bn over 15 years iirc) and a new factory or two in BAE.
But no actual numbers have been published, so we can't tell anything meaningful.
If it was all 155mm shells, I make it that it would be a little under a million - but that covers everything I think, from rifle calibre up.
In the late nineties into the 2000s we decided to copy Tesco “just in time” logistics practices in bits of the MOD. Super efficient and sensible because it avoids large stockpiles, so long as you are not at war.
Hopefully we can persuade the EU to restore free movement of a kind, as that is what most people miss. Not any of the rest
That'll be the last thing he'll do as that is the exact thing that chavscum.co.uk don't want.
Exactly. Customs Union and the Euro will happen here before the dreaded 'ability of people to freely move around the place' gets even the most tentative mention. Brexit was predicated on that being stopped. You cannot go back on that until every single person who voted for it is dead.
I think it may save them a couple of seats, if he gets some prominence. But that's all. It's a slight indication that the Conservatives may not shift more to the weirdo right.
The fact the Labour attack dogs are going for him so strongly, shows they think he is a threat.
Yes, that's about it, JJ. Maybe a dozen seats, I would say - partly because he is a figure of substance (as opposed to, say, Silly Suella) and partly because it indicates an edging away from the right towards the more defensible centre ground.
Labour will take him seriously, but the outcome of the next GE looks as nailed on as ever. Tories to lose about 150 seats is what I am predicting now.
I think the Cameron resurrection is a threat primarily to the Lib Dems, whose voters have fond memories of the sunny days in the Rose Garden and for whom Cameron in his hug a hoodie pomp represents the acceptable face of Toryism. Voters in the seats Labour is targeting remember the coalition years primarily for the austerity that Cameron and his Lib Dem useful idiots visited on their communities. They will despise Cameron either for calling the Brexit referendum, or for being a Remainer. Labour will be happy to have Cameron back, but the Lib Dems will be worried.
Yes Cameron may save a seat or two in Surrey and Oxfordshire from the LDs, including his former constituency of Witney.
I doubt he makes much difference to seats Labour are targeting however
Thus far the general reaction here in the Witney constituency seems to be incredulity rather than “oh I’ll support the Conservatives again”.
It doesn’t help that our incumbent (Robert Courts) is a lightweight party hack, and Cameron resurfacing just reminds people of that.
The most likely path to the Conservatives retaining Witney is a split LD/Labour vote - the natural challenger isn’t so obvious here as elsewhere in Oxfordshire, though on balance after boundary changes I think the LDs probably have it.
Not gonna happen tho, is it? He’s too scared of the Brexit demons (and afraid people will remember his 2nd voteness). So it won’t be reversed just like Brexit won’t be reversed. Brexit is done. Cope
I doubt I will see rejoin in my lifetime but the UK is just going to drift into ever closer alignment with the EU one small step at a time to avoid alarming fat people who give their kids names like 'Jaxtynn'.
See CBAM this week. There will be much more like this from Starmer who, as we all know, is utterly devoid of any governing principle will do much, much more of this.
I disagree. Forces will be centripetal as well as centrifugal
We are already diverting significantly in several areas
Starmer is pragmatic above all else. If he sees economic advantage in divergence he will seize it. And the opposite, too
Over time and very slowly we will orbit further out, I think. But it will be a process of decades
Hopefully we can persuade the EU to restore free movement of a kind, as that is what most people miss. Not any of the rest
Do “most people” miss free movement? It doesn’t affect holidays or most short term business trips unless you want to actually work there, so I doubt that’s true. The numbers of people who can’t do something now they could do then must be in the thousands. Ten thousand at best.
Hopefully we can persuade the EU to restore free movement of a kind, as that is what most people miss. Not any of the rest
That'll be the last thing he'll do as that is the exact thing that chavscum.co.uk don't want.
I said “of a kind” for a reason. Some sort of free movement where we can stop people without jobs or means of support
There’s no way the EU will offer that now. Some are still smarting over Brexit. But in 5–10 years I can see it happening as it is economically beneficial to both
Frictionless borders are coming anyway thanks to AI and face recognition. I’m noticing it evermore on my travels. Catania airport a few days ago had a special queue for the usual non-EU but advanced nations - UK, USA, Japan, Oz, South Korea, etc
Result - you breeze through e gates then wait 1 minute for a passport guy to put the stamp in. This will spread and accelerate. The stamp will go first. Then the passports themselves, probably
Not gonna happen tho, is it? He’s too scared of the Brexit demons (and afraid people will remember his 2nd voteness). So it won’t be reversed just like Brexit won’t be reversed. Brexit is done. Cope
I doubt I will see rejoin in my lifetime but the UK is just going to drift into ever closer alignment with the EU one small step at a time to avoid alarming fat people who give their kids names like 'Jaxtynn'.
See CBAM this week. There will be much more like this from Starmer who, as we all know, is utterly devoid of any governing principle will do much, much more of this.
I disagree. Forces will be centripetal as well as centrifugal
We are already diverting significantly in several areas
Starmer is pragmatic above all else. If he sees economic advantage in divergence he will seize it. And the opposite, too
Over time and very slowly we will orbit further out, I think. But it will be a process of decades
Hopefully we can persuade the EU to restore free movement of a kind, as that is what most people miss. Not any of the rest
Do “most people” miss free movement? It doesn’t affect holidays or most short term business trips unless you want to actually work there, so I doubt that’s true. The numbers of people who can’t do something now they could do then must be in the thousands. Ten thousand at best.
A fair question. But when I encounter embittered Remainers that’s nearly always what they mention -“you took away my right to live and work anywhere in Europe”. Even if people didn’t actually do this they liked the idea. And I totally empathise. I liked the idea as well
And the new passport queues are irritating - tho as I say they are disappearing now
The government seem to be briefing to the media that they’re likely to lose the SC appeal . Not sure why as they have a good chance of winning . The appeal isn’t over the morality or workability of the Rwanda plan in the UK but over whether Rwanda can be trusted to process claims fairly without a risk of them being deported to unsafe countries .
Both Labour and Tory parties need the SC to kill the Rwanda thing. Tories because it won't work, Labour because they need to be not landed with it in 12 months time.
Could the SC please do the decent thing?
I think for the Sunak a loss would be bad as they’ve spent a lot of money, time and political capital and the opposition will have an open goal . The current head of the court is generally reluctant to tread on policy areas , there’s not really a liberal wing anymore given quite a few retirements .
It’s somewhat of a surprise that they’ve decided on the appeal so quickly . Not sure whether there’s anything to read into there.
As I mentioned before the court will not release their opinion early to the parties , this is somewhat unusual .
Hopefully we can persuade the EU to restore free movement of a kind, as that is what most people miss. Not any of the rest
That'll be the last thing he'll do as that is the exact thing that chavscum.co.uk don't want.
Exactly. Customs Union and the Euro will happen here before the dreaded 'ability of people to freely move around the place' gets even the most tentative mention. Brexit was predicated on that being stopped. You cannot go back on that until every single person who voted for it is dead.
You are, as ever, entirely wrong and you don’t understand the coming technology - everywhere you go your face will be surveilled and recog’d by machines. It sounds dystopian but the benefits are so huge governments will seize them. Massive reductions in crime for a start. So borders will become wholly porous in appearance and certainly frictionless, because the authorities will have much better ways of keeping tabs on you than a “stamp in a paper book”
I imagine @Dura_Ace will rebel by wearing a bandana imprinted with the face of Captain Peacock from “Are you being served”
After yesterday's sensational events I am so pleased that Sunak has made a positive move to the centre and taken on the right represented by the awful Braverman and others who really belong in Reform UK
In the immediate future Sunak, Hunt, Cleverly and Cameron will not entertain leaving the ECHR no matter what happens with Rwanda tomorrow and that will ensure the WF and Good Friday Agreement are respected and it will improve our relationship with the EU which is something long overdue
Of course the likes of Andrea Jenkyns, Dorries and others will continue their ludicrous worship of Johnson but just as Corbynites have found out, extremes do not win votes
I still expect a Labour government but if this move saves some one nation conservative seats then hopefully in opposition they can become a responsible, decent and honest party and make a constructive contribution to the nations politics going forward
Not gonna happen tho, is it? He’s too scared of the Brexit demons (and afraid people will remember his 2nd voteness). So it won’t be reversed just like Brexit won’t be reversed. Brexit is done. Cope
I doubt I will see rejoin in my lifetime but the UK is just going to drift into ever closer alignment with the EU one small step at a time to avoid alarming fat people who give their kids names like 'Jaxtynn'.
See CBAM this week. There will be much more like this from Starmer who, as we all know, is utterly devoid of any governing principle will do much, much more of this.
I disagree. Forces will be centripetal as well as centrifugal
We are already diverting significantly in several areas
Starmer is pragmatic above all else. If he sees economic advantage in divergence he will seize it. And the opposite, too
Over time and very slowly we will orbit further out, I think. But it will be a process of decades
Hopefully we can persuade the EU to restore free movement of a kind, as that is what most people miss. Not any of the rest
Do “most people” miss free movement? It doesn’t affect holidays or most short term business trips unless you want to actually work there, so I doubt that’s true. The numbers of people who can’t do something now they could do then must be in the thousands. Ten thousand at best.
People like choice , much of the anger is about the loss of FOM . This is what some leavers fail to accept . Generally voting in elections doesn’t remove a right from a fellow citizen . The Brexit vote would not have been so divisive for Remainers if FOM had remained .
Hopefully we can persuade the EU to restore free movement of a kind, as that is what most people miss. Not any of the rest
That'll be the last thing he'll do as that is the exact thing that chavscum.co.uk don't want.
Exactly. Customs Union and the Euro will happen here before the dreaded 'ability of people to freely move around the place' gets even the most tentative mention. Brexit was predicated on that being stopped. You cannot go back on that until every single person who voted for it is dead.
You are, as ever, entirely wrong and you don’t understand the coming technology - everywhere you go your face will be surveilled and recog’d by machines. It sounds dystopian but the benefits are so huge governments will seize them. Massive reductions in crime for a start. So borders will become wholly porous in appearance and certainly frictionless, because the authorities will have much better ways of keeping tabs on you than a “stamp in a paper book”
I imagine @Dura_Ace will rebel by wearing a bandana imprinted with the face of Captain Peacock from “Are you being served”
Well I look forward to that then. I'm a big fan of the high tech surveillance society. What better way to id yourself than presenting your face. No two are identical. Never have been, never will be, regardless of what happens in other spheres of human endeavour.
Hmmm. I hope that we will see some extra "holding Noble Ministers (if such exist) to account" arrangements in Parliament, rather than a mackle-up.
Will Mr Cameron help overall?
I think more direct help will be from the new Home Secretary replacing the former Home Secretary. This one seems to be reasonably stable and reasonably sane.
Perhaps Mr Cameron will help calm things down a little.
Worries - if I have this right, Rishi just had a chunk of his prospects of reducing NHS waiting lists burnt down by the Treasury? So he'll reduce it slightly and bounce up and down demanding how successful he has been. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-67408446
Perhaps Rishi needs to appoint Lord Mandelbrot next, as Cabinet Office Minister for Sinister Manipulations?
We have imported huge amounts of anti-Semitism. When will we admit this was a dreadful mistake?
What’s so troubling about that Uber anecdote is that underneath it half the people are saying “yeah this happened to me, too” - showing that it is widespread - and the other half are saying “yeah that didn’t happen, you made it up”. Total denial of the problem
Hopefully we can persuade the EU to restore free movement of a kind, as that is what most people miss. Not any of the rest
That'll be the last thing he'll do as that is the exact thing that chavscum.co.uk don't want.
Exactly. Customs Union and the Euro will happen here before the dreaded 'ability of people to freely move around the place' gets even the most tentative mention. Brexit was predicated on that being stopped. You cannot go back on that until every single person who voted for it is dead.
You are, as ever, entirely wrong and you don’t understand the coming technology - everywhere you go your face will be surveilled and recog’d by machines. It sounds dystopian but the benefits are so huge governments will seize them. Massive reductions in crime for a start. So borders will become wholly porous in appearance and certainly frictionless, because the authorities will have much better ways of keeping tabs on you than a “stamp in a paper book”
I imagine @Dura_Ace will rebel by wearing a bandana imprinted with the face of Captain Peacock from “Are you being served”
Well I look forward to that then. I'm a big fan of the high tech surveillance society. What better way to id yourself than presenting your face. No two are identical. Never have been, never will be, regardless of what happens in other spheres of human endeavour.
I agree. It’s coming so we might as well embrace the benefits
"No doubt Labour is digging furiously to find if there are any negatives that would undermine him and of course the PM."
Is there any need to dig? On the podcast, Campbell had a list immediately (and Stewart was scathing about Cameron's history in foreign affairs).
Yep there’s no need to dig.
Greenshill stinks.
It is WELL worth reading Suzanne Heywood’s ‘What Does Jeremy Think?’. In fact, I’d urge everyone on here to read it if they haven’t already done so. Although Suzanne is careful, Cameron comes out of it smelling like excrement.
p.s. It’s difficult to see how anyone posting on here about the politics of the last 25 years in this country can do so without having read this book.
Speaking of Labour attack dogs. Morning Heathener, hope you're well.
Good morning BR. How are you?
The Suzanne Heywood book ought to be compulsory reading as a prerequisite for signing up to this site. Okay, so that’s an exaggeration but it’s a remarkable insight into the inner workings of Government over the past quarter of a century. I doubt Suzanne is a Labour sympathiser.
As I say, the one standout figure to come out of it smelling like excrement is David Cameron.
Cameron tried to prevent publication of the book, and attempted to heap the Greenshill blame onto the dead JH …
Hopefully we can persuade the EU to restore free movement of a kind, as that is what most people miss. Not any of the rest
That'll be the last thing he'll do as that is the exact thing that chavscum.co.uk don't want.
Exactly. Customs Union and the Euro will happen here before the dreaded 'ability of people to freely move around the place' gets even the most tentative mention. Brexit was predicated on that being stopped. You cannot go back on that until every single person who voted for it is dead.
You are, as ever, entirely wrong and you don’t understand the coming technology - everywhere you go your face will be surveilled and recog’d by machines. It sounds dystopian but the benefits are so huge governments will seize them. Massive reductions in crime for a start. So borders will become wholly porous in appearance and certainly frictionless, because the authorities will have much better ways of keeping tabs on you than a “stamp in a paper book”
I imagine @Dura_Ace will rebel by wearing a bandana imprinted with the face of Captain Peacock from “Are you being served”
Well I look forward to that then. I'm a big fan of the high tech surveillance society. What better way to id yourself than presenting your face. No two are identical. Never have been, never will be, regardless of what happens in other spheres of human endeavour.
Comments
I immediately feel more alive. The pulse quickens. The senses sharpen. Danger and adventure lie ahead, and unknown pleasures, and mysterious people
I even get that on the 8.47 to Swindon, perhaps more so
This very website discussed it when they heard he wanted to get back as Foreign Secretary (when Johnson was in charge).
It wasn't a runner then. Johnson doesn't like Cameron and the feeling is mutual, plus the (then) obvious difficulty of making Cameron a Lord and then Foreign Secretary. But Sunak isn't Johnson and he's just ignored all that convention and done it.
Cameron wanted back and he's got it.
Will it help the Conservatives? Hell yes. I still see '120 seats to a majority', and 'Everyone hates the Labour party in Bootle.... except on GE day'.
The Conservatives might not win this, but they could still force a hung parliament.
As a final aside, I think a May 2024 election is now more likely. Sunak's getting his final team ready, and might go whilst they are still in honeymoon period next year.
The initial pricing sounds bonkers. Apparently there have been huge discounts as the organisers panic and realise making it more expensive for an American to visit the Las Vegas Grand Prix than the Japanese Grand Prix was perhaps unwise.
Whilst Remainers like myself think he was an idiot to call the referendum he did at least back Remain and its Johnson who will always IMO be the one who bears most responsibility for Brexit .
The big moves yesterday were Braverman out and Cameron in so public perception would be divisive moron out and adult in .
I do expect Cameron to have a big role in the general election campaign and I don’t expect him to cause any issues at the foreign office.
In terms of the Red Wall I don’t see him helping with the opposition making hay over his time in office and cuts to public services.
Sunaks attempts to make himself look like the change candidate are over. It looks like Sunak is going for the 2015 voter coalition but he doesn’t have Miliband and the SNP coalition of chaos argument . Given what the Tories have delivered over the last few years the public will laugh at any such attempts .
There’s a trust weird article in the world’s greatest magazine, the Spectator, where the writer - a friend of Sunak? - keeps overtly hinting he has some personal reason to loathe Cameron - but won’t reveal what it is
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/in-defence-of-david-camerons-comeback/
So he's screwed as the only identity the government can sell is 'confused'.
A terrorist group with territory is just a terrorist group. Like Hamas, the Tamil Tigers in the past, FARC in the past, ISIS in the past etc
What's worth noting is that contrary to some people's misconceptions, terrorist groups can be defeated militarily and not just by "negotiations".
It does seem that the intent to be signalled (rapprochement with centrists) is pissing off his right-wing core, whilst the execution (appointing David Cameron) may piss off those centrists to whom he wishes to appeal.
It's very early days of course, and we could be just inferring disaster from whatever he does (basically continuing the unfortunate trend). If it is like this, then backing out of it won't really be doable, because getting rid of Cameron would signal an intent (backing away from the centrists) to those centrists who didn't appreciate the way he did it in the first place, without necessarily pleasing the right-wing core.
Besides, not like that has harmed PMs before. Pincher? Never heard of him.
I agree it can be read as a threat
We’ve had one no confidence letter from the unhinged Jenkyns and that’s it .
A similar metaphor is that our future isn't as great as our past. But that's obvious because we don't invest in anything and this Government (and previous ones) don't know how to run a project for toffee...
Still, failing repeatedly never seems to stop people getting top jobs in the public sector. And it was quite amusing to see the commentariat so completely wrong-footed.
I hope Starmer switches them back to red. That'd be funny.
Pay outstripping price increases by the most for 2 years. And the gap is likely to continue widening in the next few months.
Cameron was terrible. All he ever did was gay marriage. That’s it
They are the nu-kippers now.
Camo pissed off Leavers by being the Remainer in Chief.
Camo pissed off a lot of people by walking away (humming) and leaving everyone else to sort out Brexit while he sat in a posh hut and increased his bank balance.
But at least one PBer thinks he is the Golden Child. So things will be fine.
🚨NEW Westminster Voting Intention
📈18pt Labour lead
🌹Lab 46 (+1)
🌳Con 28 (-1)
🔶LD 10 (-1)
➡️Reform 6 (+1)
🌍Green 4 (+1)
🎗️SNP 2 (=)
Well done Lord Cameron, you are bringing your flock home.
See CBAM this week. There will be much more like this from Starmer who, as we all know, is utterly devoid of any governing principle will do much, much more of this.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/nov/14/millions-of-uk-households-forced-to-unplug-fridge-to-cope-with-rising-bills
Vote Conservative apparently.
On Syria, he tried to do the right thing, but Miliband's weaselly treachery did that in.
On the EU, he got a renegotiation, and offered a referendum on it. But the bastards wanted power for themselves (mainly one tousle-haired bastard, anyway...)
On Scotland, he offered, and won, a referendum.
We are already diverting significantly in several areas
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/nov/14/uk-to-loosen-post-brexit-chemical-regulations-further
Starmer is pragmatic above all else. If he sees economic advantage in divergence he will seize it. And the opposite, too
Over time and very slowly we will orbit further out, I think. But it will be a process of decades
Hopefully we can persuade the EU to restore free movement of a kind, as that is what most people miss. Not any of the rest
However he is a capable figure in the Foreign Secretary role who will be respected abroad, much like David Miliband was in the last year's of the Brown government. Also good for Cameron who gets grace and favour properties and foreign travel
Although it did have the advantage of making Andy Burnham look like the tit he is...
Could the SC please do the decent thing?
But no actual numbers have been published, so we can't tell anything meaningful.
If it was all 155mm shells, I make it that it would be a little under a million - but that covers everything I think, from rifle calibre up.
Some analysis here:
https://www.defense-aerospace.com/europes-155mm-ammo-stocks-where-they-should-be-and-how-to-get-there/
A Ukrainian SU-25 passing by a Ukrainian MI-8.
https://twitter.com/Osinttechnical/status/1724186888381063209
I doubt he makes much difference to seats Labour are targeting however
It doesn’t help that our incumbent (Robert Courts) is a lightweight party hack, and Cameron resurfacing just reminds people of that.
The most likely path to the Conservatives retaining Witney is a split LD/Labour vote - the natural challenger isn’t so obvious here as elsewhere in Oxfordshire, though on balance after boundary changes I think the LDs probably have it.
There’s no way the EU will offer that now. Some are still smarting over Brexit. But in 5–10 years I can see it happening as it is economically beneficial to both
Frictionless borders are coming anyway thanks to AI and face recognition. I’m noticing it evermore on my travels. Catania airport a few days ago had a special queue for the usual non-EU but advanced nations - UK, USA, Japan, Oz, South Korea, etc
Result - you breeze through e gates then wait 1 minute for a passport guy to put the stamp in. This will spread and accelerate. The stamp will go first. Then the passports themselves, probably
And the new passport queues are irritating - tho as I say they are disappearing now
It’s somewhat of a surprise that they’ve decided on the appeal so quickly . Not sure whether there’s anything to read into there.
As I mentioned before the court will not release their opinion early to the parties , this is somewhat unusual .
I imagine @Dura_Ace will rebel by wearing a bandana imprinted with the face of Captain Peacock from “Are you being served”
After yesterday's sensational events I am so pleased that Sunak has made a positive move to the centre and taken on the right represented by the awful Braverman and others who really belong in Reform UK
In the immediate future Sunak, Hunt, Cleverly and Cameron will not entertain leaving the ECHR no matter what happens with Rwanda tomorrow and that will ensure the WF and Good Friday Agreement are respected and it will improve our relationship with the EU which is something long overdue
Of course the likes of Andrea Jenkyns, Dorries and others will continue their ludicrous worship of Johnson but just as Corbynites have found out, extremes do not win votes
I still expect a Labour government but if this move saves some one nation conservative seats then hopefully in opposition they can become a responsible, decent and honest party and make a constructive contribution to the nations politics going forward
“Not got an Uber for a while. Stunned by antisemitism after mentioning I was a journalist, which invited rant on Middle East.
“Zionism conspiracy etc. Hamas want peace, two-state solution.”
I pointed out killing 1,400 people an odd way to show it.
So he kicked me out of car.”
https://x.com/mattchorley/status/1724194466460803143?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw
This is catastrophic. Well done: the British Left
What will happen?
Hmmm. I hope that we will see some extra "holding Noble Ministers (if such exist) to account" arrangements in Parliament, rather than a mackle-up.
Will Mr Cameron help overall?
I think more direct help will be from the new Home Secretary replacing the former Home Secretary. This one seems to be reasonably stable and reasonably sane.
Perhaps Mr Cameron will help calm things down a little.
Worries - if I have this right, Rishi just had a chunk of his prospects of reducing NHS waiting lists burnt down by the Treasury? So he'll reduce it slightly and bounce up and down demanding how successful he has been.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-67408446
Perhaps Rishi needs to appoint Lord Mandelbrot next, as Cabinet Office Minister for Sinister Manipulations?
What’s so troubling about that Uber anecdote is that underneath it half the people are saying “yeah this happened to me, too” - showing that it is widespread - and the other half are saying “yeah that didn’t happen, you made it up”. Total denial
of the problem
Good morning BR. How are you?
The Suzanne Heywood book ought to be compulsory reading as a prerequisite for signing up to this site. Okay, so that’s an exaggeration but it’s a remarkable insight into the inner workings of Government over the past quarter of a century. I doubt Suzanne is a Labour sympathiser.
As I say, the one standout figure to come out of it smelling like excrement is David Cameron.
Cameron tried to prevent publication of the book, and attempted to heap the Greenshill blame onto the dead JH …
https://www.theguardian.com/books/2021/feb/04/what-does-jeremy-think-by-suzanne-heywood-review-how-to-manage-a-prime-minister
A must read, folks.
They are (at last) doing some work on refusals to transport Guide Dogs (where there is a legal duty to accept). They may address this, too.