LAB moves to an even stronger favourite to win overall majority – politicalbetting.com
Comments
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He hoped that would improve government ratings, but it hasn't worked. So now he's going to try something else.RandallFlagg said:
Why he has spent the last few months (since Uxbridge) obsessed with creating dividing lines and setting traps for Labour (i.e. selling off the HS2 land as fast he can) then?Casino_Royale said:I think Sunak is essentially like Chris Patten as the Last Governor in Hong Kong after the 1995 elections.
He knows he's doomed but wants to leave with his head held high as a matter of honour, having done the right thing, and stuff the political consequences.0 -
Reopen the Currygate investigation!Anabobazina said:Just seen that Holden Dick is new Tory chairman.
Any news on 30p?1 -
Too late. I’ve seen itRichard_Tyndall said:
Don't let Leon see that. He is convinced only 3 bumpkins and a scrofulous dog called Bobby wanted Braverman sacked.Scott_xP said:@YouGov
Britons think Rishi Sunak was right rather than wrong to sack Suella Braverman as home secretary
Right to sack her: 57% (44% of Con 2019 voters)
Wrong to sack her: 20% (39% of Con 2019 voters)
https://x.com/YouGov/status/1724071651829043487?s=20
Did I ever say anything different to you? I strongly support Braverman’s stand on the Wokeness but I say - on this thread - she is “clumsy, naive, foolish, maladroit” and much else
I can see why you might sack her. But then, she is the only minister with the guts to stand up to the left and say hard but true things. That’s why she still has the support of half the Tories - as we see in this poll
Sunak has alienated all those Tories - and for what? What does he gain? Does he honestly think millions of grateful people will flock back to the Tories now she’s gone and David Duke of Brexit* has got his feet up in Chevening?
I predict the polls will not shift significantly at all, but Tory infighting will get worse. So: a net negative. That’s bad politics
*that’s mine and I demand copyright
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Dick Holden, I believe ?Anabobazina said:Just seen that Holden Dick is new Tory chairman.
But definitely on brand in the nominative Toryism stakes.0 -
44% of 2019 Tories.TheScreamingEagles said:
Err 44% of Tories say it was right to sack her and 39% say it was wrong.Andy_JS said:
The crucial point is that more Tories than not wanted her to stay.Scott_xP said:@YouGov
Britons think Rishi Sunak was right rather than wrong to sack Suella Braverman as home secretary
Right to sack her: 57% (44% of Con 2019 voters)
Wrong to sack her: 20% (39% of Con 2019 voters)
https://x.com/YouGov/status/1724071651829043487?s=20
When they polled more than 40%.0 -
Just 3 or 4 weeks ago Sunak was calling out 30 years of failed consensus, stating that he was a new beginning.... now he is suddenly hiring from the ranks of that failed consensus and putting them into high office hahahahahaha ....you can't make it up. This is how to really mess with the voters' minds hahahaha who is to know what comes next.... talk about brand equity out of the window.... and with an imminent GE...wow...that is desperation. The hard right were busy calling Starmer: flip-flop. They even sold filp flops with starmers face on at the conservative conference..... I think this has to be the flip-flop of the century0
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That was a dog that didn't seem to bark in the end. For example, the huge guarantee granted somewhat injudiciously by the Scottish Government doesn't seem to have been called upon. But it wasn't Cameron's finest hour, of that there is no doubt.rcs1000 said:Re Cameron, given his involvement in the Greensill collapse, I'm not sure he should be allowed anywhere near the levers of power.
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Surely it should be Holden Pint?Nigelb said:
Dick Holden, I believe ?Anabobazina said:Just seen that Holden Dick is new Tory chairman.
But definitely on brand in the nominative Toryism stakes.1 -
This is the first time a party chairman has had the same name as its main election strategy since the ill-fated Di Therand-Panic in the late John Major era.Nigelb said:
Dick Holden, I believe ?Anabobazina said:Just seen that Holden Dick is new Tory chairman.
But definitely on brand in the nominative Toryism stakes.2 -
I don't think this would have happened at my school 30 years ago, which made almost no show at all of cultural matters.kinabalu said:
It'll take more than a few years of woke to knock over something as strong and deep-rooted as the patriarchy.Cookie said:
An unrelated anecdote on woke (to illustrate that Leon is not the only poster who mentions itJosiasJessop said:
Oddly enough, as you're about the only poster who ever mentions 'woke', I assume that you suffer from 'woke madness' ?Leon said:
But Suella was totemic for Tories who want to see someone - anyone - fighting the Woke madness. Not because she’s great - she’s maladroit and foolish and needs to shape up - but because she seems to be the only one doing that. The only person with actual right wing beliefs who is - was - prepared to tell the guardian and the BBC to get stuffedDavidL said:
The consensus from the various journalists etc being interviewed on R5 and TWAO was that this was a clever or canny move by Sunak. Not something heard, well, ever actually. Almost no dissenting voices.Leon said:
Daily Mail:Gardenwalker said:
Why?Leon said:
Yeah. I’ve gone from thinking “this is amusing” to “this will have mixed results” to “this will be a disaster”Mortimer said:
My local party mates are all appalled.TimS said:It's an interesting gambit, this pivot towards the old school centre-right. The more I think about it the more I think the impact on polling and electoral chances is going to be very mixed by region. I do think there is a problem brewing for the Lib Dems in the home counties here. Especially if Hunt unveils tax cuts for the higher paid this month or in spring. Look at TSE's reaction, and Topping's, and (though I appreciate not from the home counties) BigG's. The disaffected Cameroons have been looking around for some excuse to come home, and here it is.
Whereas for Labour in the North and Midlands this return to the old crew that brought austerity, stagnation and plummy accents to cabinet this must be a gift.
It's interesting to see Sunak doing precisely the opposite of what PB Tories have been advising him in recent days. He's going after the Lib Dems and the centre, and saying yah boo to the Refuk-curious. Let's see what happens to Lib Dem VI in the coming weeks as that may tell us if the blue wall gambit has succeeded.
Much sympathy with Braverman, none with Sunak....
Sunak has just annoyed far more people than he’s pleased
“Gutless Rishi Sunak sacks Suella Braverman and signs the end of the Tory party in government.
She was right about hate marches.
Sacking Suella is an own goal for the Tories.
Keir Starmer must be rejoicing.”
https://x.com/amandajplatell/status/1723991879929286965?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw
Daily Telegraph:
“At the Cenotaph on Saturday, there was huge support for Suella among people from all walks of life.
Rishi Sunak should resign. He is utterly useless.”
https://x.com/allisonpearson/status/1724019215433191523?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw
Sunak has ENRAGED the right. Alienating swathes of voters. Meanwhile, who is really gonna shift their vote TO the Tories because Old Etonian Dave “Brexit loser” Cameron is back as Foreign Secretary, as an unelected Lord?
Really, who? About 3 people on here. That’s it
At the risk of doxing myself as the true Spartacus even the fact that the BBC seems to like it doesn't persuade me that it is a bad idea.
Braverman was a deeply unpleasant menace who has been damaging the government almost from the day she was reappointed. Cleverly may keep similar policies but will very definitely not have the same tone as her. The government will start to sound more like a government and less like a Trump rally.
Cameron is more skilled as a politician than literally anyone in the existing cabinet (admittedly an extremely low bar). I hope he can help create a more coherent voice that has some idea of why it is there.
I’m not surprised the BBC is pleased
And add to that sacking - guaranteeing Tory infighting - the appointment of loser Cameron? You are unusual in your admiration. Polls show he’s deeply unpopular. Remainers hate him, many leavers scoff at him
So will this do anything good for the Tories? My bet is no. I don’t think it will shift the polls significantly, but what it will do is not good for Sunak: it exposes the huge rifts in Toryism right before the election
) : at a local secondary school - which when I last visited 18 months ago was as woke as could be: 75% of the material on the walls of corridors dealt with either sexuality, gender or race (valid concerns, but surely not worthy of 75% of any school's mental effort), it turns out that some opinions are actually quite old-fashioned: when the boys' football team's bus breaks down, they simply requisition the girls' netball team's bus, and the girl's netball team doesn't play; and when the boys' sports hall is out of action, they requisition the girls' sports hall, and girls' PE is cancelled.
I don't know if this is because actually the woke is just for show, or because girls are no longer a concern of woke.
You know the theory about people having a certain inbuilt level of safety? And if you make them safer in some respects, they will compensate by taking more risks? Give them a seatbelt, they will drive 10mph faster; give them a cycle helmet they will jump that red light? I have a nascent theory that people have a certain inbuilt level of woke (yes I hate the word too, but you know what I mean and I will happily use a better one if one can be found). Make them woker in respect a, they will consider themselves woke and thereby not have to behave at all woke in respect b.
Not really thought it through properly but that's what it feels like to me.0 -
Maybe getting rid of Braverman was the right decision.
"It would be a mistake for the Tory Right to go with Suella Braverman
When irrationality and loathing were becoming serious threats to civil order, she was raising the temperature rather than lowering it
Janet Daley"
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/11/13/the-right-should-abandon-suella-braverman-shes-a-lost-cause/1 -
Oh, Day-aa-vid Cameron.0
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The new No.2 at the Treasury, Laura Trott, is former Cameroon, is she not ?0
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In one sense I see why he keeps rolling the dice. But he is indeed incapable of picking a strategy and sticking with it and that, in itself, is pretty obvious to people and very damaging.Cleitophon said:Just 3 or 4 weeks ago Sunak was calling out 30 years of failed consensus, stating that he was a new beginning.... now he is suddenly hiring from the ranks of that failed consensus and putting them into high office hahahahahaha ....you can't make it up. This is how to really mess with the voters' minds hahahaha who is to know what comes next.... talk about brand equity out of the window.... and with an imminent GE...wow...that is desperation. The hard right were busy calling Starmer: flip-flop. They even sold filp flops with starmers face on at the conservative conference..... I think this has to be the flip-flop of the century
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Given they were 99% certain to lose the next election I would suggest that, if they want to drag the party back towards the centre, it would be better (for them rather than the country) to get the infighting happening now and purge the ERG types rather than wait until after the election when they are in Opposition and the Right Wing are far more likely to win the leadership.Leon said:
Too late. I’ve seen itRichard_Tyndall said:
Don't let Leon see that. He is convinced only 3 bumpkins and a scrofulous dog called Bobby wanted Braverman sacked.Scott_xP said:@YouGov
Britons think Rishi Sunak was right rather than wrong to sack Suella Braverman as home secretary
Right to sack her: 57% (44% of Con 2019 voters)
Wrong to sack her: 20% (39% of Con 2019 voters)
https://x.com/YouGov/status/1724071651829043487?s=20
Did I ever say anything different to you? I strongly support Braverman’s stand on the Wokeness but I say - on this thread - she is “clumsy, naive, foolish, maladroit” and much else
I can see why you might sack her. But then, she is the only minister with the guts to stand up to the left and say hard but true things. That’s why she still has the support of half the Tories - as we see in this poll
Sunak has alienated all those Tories - and for what? What does he gain? Does he honestly think millions of grateful people will flock back to the Tories now she’s gone and David Duke of Brexit* has got his feet up in Chevening?
I predict the polls will not shift significantly at all, but Tory infighting will get worse. So: a net negative. That’s bad politics
*that’s mine and I demand copyright
And much of what she says is not true. People don't generally choose to live on the streets. We should not ban protests just because we disagree with the opinions being expressed. It is not the fault of the ECHR if the UK Supreme Court says we are not allowed to send asylum seekers to Africa.
Braverman was the Bully XL of politics and it was long overdue for her to be defanged.
I had already said in the last thread this wouldn't change the polls. But that doesn't mean it was not worth doing in its own right.3 -
Dictionary definition of 'Woke'Cookie said:
I don't think this would have happened at my school 30 years ago, which made almost no show at all of cultural matters.kinabalu said:
It'll take more than a few years of woke to knock over something as strong and deep-rooted as the patriarchy.Cookie said:
An unrelated anecdote on woke (to illustrate that Leon is not the only poster who mentions itJosiasJessop said:
Oddly enough, as you're about the only poster who ever mentions 'woke', I assume that you suffer from 'woke madness' ?Leon said:
But Suella was totemic for Tories who want to see someone - anyone - fighting the Woke madness. Not because she’s great - she’s maladroit and foolish and needs to shape up - but because she seems to be the only one doing that. The only person with actual right wing beliefs who is - was - prepared to tell the guardian and the BBC to get stuffedDavidL said:
The consensus from the various journalists etc being interviewed on R5 and TWAO was that this was a clever or canny move by Sunak. Not something heard, well, ever actually. Almost no dissenting voices.Leon said:
Daily Mail:Gardenwalker said:
Why?Leon said:
Yeah. I’ve gone from thinking “this is amusing” to “this will have mixed results” to “this will be a disaster”Mortimer said:
My local party mates are all appalled.TimS said:It's an interesting gambit, this pivot towards the old school centre-right. The more I think about it the more I think the impact on polling and electoral chances is going to be very mixed by region. I do think there is a problem brewing for the Lib Dems in the home counties here. Especially if Hunt unveils tax cuts for the higher paid this month or in spring. Look at TSE's reaction, and Topping's, and (though I appreciate not from the home counties) BigG's. The disaffected Cameroons have been looking around for some excuse to come home, and here it is.
Whereas for Labour in the North and Midlands this return to the old crew that brought austerity, stagnation and plummy accents to cabinet this must be a gift.
It's interesting to see Sunak doing precisely the opposite of what PB Tories have been advising him in recent days. He's going after the Lib Dems and the centre, and saying yah boo to the Refuk-curious. Let's see what happens to Lib Dem VI in the coming weeks as that may tell us if the blue wall gambit has succeeded.
Much sympathy with Braverman, none with Sunak....
Sunak has just annoyed far more people than he’s pleased
“Gutless Rishi Sunak sacks Suella Braverman and signs the end of the Tory party in government.
She was right about hate marches.
Sacking Suella is an own goal for the Tories.
Keir Starmer must be rejoicing.”
https://x.com/amandajplatell/status/1723991879929286965?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw
Daily Telegraph:
“At the Cenotaph on Saturday, there was huge support for Suella among people from all walks of life.
Rishi Sunak should resign. He is utterly useless.”
https://x.com/allisonpearson/status/1724019215433191523?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw
Sunak has ENRAGED the right. Alienating swathes of voters. Meanwhile, who is really gonna shift their vote TO the Tories because Old Etonian Dave “Brexit loser” Cameron is back as Foreign Secretary, as an unelected Lord?
Really, who? About 3 people on here. That’s it
At the risk of doxing myself as the true Spartacus even the fact that the BBC seems to like it doesn't persuade me that it is a bad idea.
Braverman was a deeply unpleasant menace who has been damaging the government almost from the day she was reappointed. Cleverly may keep similar policies but will very definitely not have the same tone as her. The government will start to sound more like a government and less like a Trump rally.
Cameron is more skilled as a politician than literally anyone in the existing cabinet (admittedly an extremely low bar). I hope he can help create a more coherent voice that has some idea of why it is there.
I’m not surprised the BBC is pleased
And add to that sacking - guaranteeing Tory infighting - the appointment of loser Cameron? You are unusual in your admiration. Polls show he’s deeply unpopular. Remainers hate him, many leavers scoff at him
So will this do anything good for the Tories? My bet is no. I don’t think it will shift the polls significantly, but what it will do is not good for Sunak: it exposes the huge rifts in Toryism right before the election ) : at a local secondary school - which when I last visited 18 months ago was as woke as could be: 75% of the material on the walls of corridors dealt with either sexuality, gender or race (valid concerns, but surely not worthy of 75% of any school's mental effort), it turns out that some opinions are actually quite old-fashioned: when the boys' football team's bus breaks down, they simply requisition the girls' netball team's bus, and the girl's netball team doesn't play; and when the boys' sports hall is out of action, they requisition the girls' sports hall, and girls' PE is cancelled.
I don't know if this is because actually the woke is just for show, or because girls are no longer a concern of woke.
You know the theory about people having a certain inbuilt level of safety? And if you make them safer in some respects, they will compensate by taking more risks? Give them a seatbelt, they will drive 10mph faster; give them a cycle helmet they will jump that red light? I have a nascent theory that people have a certain inbuilt level of woke (yes I hate the word too, but you know what I mean and I will happily use a better one if one can be found). Make them woker in respect a, they will consider themselves woke and thereby not have to behave at all woke in respect b.
Not really thought it through properly but that's what it feels like to me.
'alert to injustice and discrimination in society, especially racism'
How about 'respectful' as a one word alternative?0 -
His lobbying was extremely unhappy unseemly.DavidL said:
That was a dog that didn't seem to bark in the end. For example, the huge guarantee granted somewhat injudiciously by the Scottish Government doesn't seem to have been called upon. But it wasn't Cameron's finest hour, of that there is no doubt.rcs1000 said:Re Cameron, given his involvement in the Greensill collapse, I'm not sure he should be allowed anywhere near the levers of power.
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I agree. A serious error of judgment.rcs1000 said:
His lobbying was extremely unhappy unseemly.DavidL said:
That was a dog that didn't seem to bark in the end. For example, the huge guarantee granted somewhat injudiciously by the Scottish Government doesn't seem to have been called upon. But it wasn't Cameron's finest hour, of that there is no doubt.rcs1000 said:Re Cameron, given his involvement in the Greensill collapse, I'm not sure he should be allowed anywhere near the levers of power.
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...
He is making an art of *not* doing the right thing. He has not addressed housing, not addressed the stagnating economy, not addressed mass immigration, not addressed public sector productivity. He seems to want to squat in Number 10 for little reason except to give Labour a smooth path into Government, and stuff the consequences to the Tory Party while he heads to California to have another crack at being a 'tech-bro'.Casino_Royale said:I think Sunak is essentially like Chris Patten as the Last Governor in Hong Kong after the 1995 elections.
He knows he's doomed but wants to leave with his head held high as a matter of honour, having done the right thing, and stuff the political consequences.2 -
I don't think it'd in any way be better for The Tory Party to get the infighting done now. They'd lose more heavily than necessary at the General Election (perhaps catastrophically so), and then they'd still get dragged right in opposition by people saying "told you so".Richard_Tyndall said:
Given they were 99% certain to lose the next election I would suggest that, if they want to drag the party back towards the centre, it would be better (for them rather than the country) to get the infighting happening now and purge the ERG types rather than wait until after the election when they are in Opposition and the Right Wing are far more likely to win the leadership.Leon said:
Too late. I’ve seen itRichard_Tyndall said:
Don't let Leon see that. He is convinced only 3 bumpkins and a scrofulous dog called Bobby wanted Braverman sacked.Scott_xP said:@YouGov
Britons think Rishi Sunak was right rather than wrong to sack Suella Braverman as home secretary
Right to sack her: 57% (44% of Con 2019 voters)
Wrong to sack her: 20% (39% of Con 2019 voters)
https://x.com/YouGov/status/1724071651829043487?s=20
Did I ever say anything different to you? I strongly support Braverman’s stand on the Wokeness but I say - on this thread - she is “clumsy, naive, foolish, maladroit” and much else
I can see why you might sack her. But then, she is the only minister with the guts to stand up to the left and say hard but true things. That’s why she still has the support of half the Tories - as we see in this poll
Sunak has alienated all those Tories - and for what? What does he gain? Does he honestly think millions of grateful people will flock back to the Tories now she’s gone and David Duke of Brexit* has got his feet up in Chevening?
I predict the polls will not shift significantly at all, but Tory infighting will get worse. So: a net negative. That’s bad politics
*that’s mine and I demand copyright0 -
I don't think this is about shoring up the Blue Wall having written off the Red One or anything like that. I don't think there's any deep strategy at all going on. Sunak's game is to throw rocks in the pond and job done in this regard. Who saw this play coming? Nobody. That's a 'win' for him in itself. He'll be chuffed and I'm impressed. I revise my Nowcast call on Labour overall majority from 115 to 110.0
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Given that (presumably) he made a lot of money, and his return to politics has not been encumbered in any way, it seems he made a very correct judgement.DavidL said:
I agree. A serious error of judgment.rcs1000 said:
His lobbying was extremely unhappy unseemly.DavidL said:
That was a dog that didn't seem to bark in the end. For example, the huge guarantee granted somewhat injudiciously by the Scottish Government doesn't seem to have been called upon. But it wasn't Cameron's finest hour, of that there is no doubt.rcs1000 said:Re Cameron, given his involvement in the Greensill collapse, I'm not sure he should be allowed anywhere near the levers of power.
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Some pearl clutching on Baron Brexit's appointment.
https://twitter.com/BBCVickiYoung/status/1724073638389756231
Macmillan and Thatcher managed with Foreign Secretaries siting in the Lords.0 -
She was right to spot the way homeless cities arise, and warn about it, her language was offensively wrong. AFAIK she did not explicitly call for protests to be banned?Richard_Tyndall said:
Given they were 99% certain to lose the next election I would suggest that, if they want to drag the party back towards the centre, it would be better (for them rather than the country) to get the infighting happening now and purge the ERG types rather than wait until after the election when they are in Opposition and the Right Wing are far more likely to win the leadership.Leon said:
Too late. I’ve seen itRichard_Tyndall said:
Don't let Leon see that. He is convinced only 3 bumpkins and a scrofulous dog called Bobby wanted Braverman sacked.Scott_xP said:@YouGov
Britons think Rishi Sunak was right rather than wrong to sack Suella Braverman as home secretary
Right to sack her: 57% (44% of Con 2019 voters)
Wrong to sack her: 20% (39% of Con 2019 voters)
https://x.com/YouGov/status/1724071651829043487?s=20
Did I ever say anything different to you? I strongly support Braverman’s stand on the Wokeness but I say - on this thread - she is “clumsy, naive, foolish, maladroit” and much else
I can see why you might sack her. But then, she is the only minister with the guts to stand up to the left and say hard but true things. That’s why she still has the support of half the Tories - as we see in this poll
Sunak has alienated all those Tories - and for what? What does he gain? Does he honestly think millions of grateful people will flock back to the Tories now she’s gone and David Duke of Brexit* has got his feet up in Chevening?
I predict the polls will not shift significantly at all, but Tory infighting will get worse. So: a net negative. That’s bad politics
*that’s mine and I demand copyright
And much of what she says is not true. People don't generally choose to live on the streets. We should not ban protests just because we disagree with the opinions being expressed. It is not the fault of the ECHR if the UK Supreme Court says we are not allowed to send asylum seekers to Africa.
Braverman was the Bully XL of politics and it was long overdue for her to be defanged.
I had already said in the last thread this wouldn't change the polls. But that doesn't mean it was not worth doing in its own right.
Am I the only person that actually read her Times article about protests? This is what she actually says, she actually says the opposite of "ban them", at least in this article:
"The right to protest in public is a cornerstone of democracy. That is why peaceful marches are never banned and even controversial and disruptive ones are policed rather than blocked.
Only in the most exceptional circumstances do the authorities step in. The way the law works is clear: if a chief constable believes that there is a serious risk of disorder which the police will struggle to contain, he or she can ask the home secretary to ban a march. Even then, a static protest can take place."
She goes on:
"Right-wing and nationalist protesters who engage in aggression are rightly met with a stern response yet pro-Palestinian mobs displaying almost identical behaviour are largely ignored, even when clearly breaking the law? I have spoken to serving and former police officers who have noted this double standard.
Football fans are even more vocal about the tough way they are policed as compared to politically-connected minority groups who are favoured by the left. It may be that senior officers are more concerned with how much flak they are likely to get than whether this perceived unfairness alienates the majority. The government has a duty to take a broader view.
If the march goes ahead this weekend, the public will expect to see an assertive and proactive approach to any displays of hate, breaches of conditions and general disorder."
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/pro-palestine-protest-london-met-police-cbqnxbtv3
The whole point is a call for even-handed policing. And after what I saw on Saturday, I would say she has been vindicated, the police were far tougher on the 300 footie hoons than on the 30,000 dodgy types in the 300,000 Pro-Pal march; they were admirably calm, they were not even-handed
The ECHR is outdated junk and we should leave it if it prevents us policing our borders properly
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Will we still be spending 30p when Holden Dick?0
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It's an interesting question whether the Tory Right will now feel it's disadvantageous to them for the party to lose the next election as heavily as possible.SirNorfolkPassmore said:
I don't think it'd in any way be better for The Tory Party to get the infighting done now. They'd lose more heavily than necessary at the General Election (perhaps catastrophically so), and then they'd still get dragged right in opposition by people saying "told you so".Richard_Tyndall said:
Given they were 99% certain to lose the next election I would suggest that, if they want to drag the party back towards the centre, it would be better (for them rather than the country) to get the infighting happening now and purge the ERG types rather than wait until after the election when they are in Opposition and the Right Wing are far more likely to win the leadership.Leon said:
Too late. I’ve seen itRichard_Tyndall said:
Don't let Leon see that. He is convinced only 3 bumpkins and a scrofulous dog called Bobby wanted Braverman sacked.Scott_xP said:@YouGov
Britons think Rishi Sunak was right rather than wrong to sack Suella Braverman as home secretary
Right to sack her: 57% (44% of Con 2019 voters)
Wrong to sack her: 20% (39% of Con 2019 voters)
https://x.com/YouGov/status/1724071651829043487?s=20
Did I ever say anything different to you? I strongly support Braverman’s stand on the Wokeness but I say - on this thread - she is “clumsy, naive, foolish, maladroit” and much else
I can see why you might sack her. But then, she is the only minister with the guts to stand up to the left and say hard but true things. That’s why she still has the support of half the Tories - as we see in this poll
Sunak has alienated all those Tories - and for what? What does he gain? Does he honestly think millions of grateful people will flock back to the Tories now she’s gone and David Duke of Brexit* has got his feet up in Chevening?
I predict the polls will not shift significantly at all, but Tory infighting will get worse. So: a net negative. That’s bad politics
*that’s mine and I demand copyright0 -
What has disappointed me about Rishi is that even on a very narrow view of the laissez-faire lens by which he views the British economy, he’s done nowt.
No interest in deregulating certain bloated sectors, no actual follow through on freeports, no addressing the various rorts in the tax system.
Cameron doesn’t change that, of course.
Just makes him look less stark-staring batshit than having Braverman as the default voice of today’s party.3 -
This reshuffle must have been some time in the planning, given how extensive it is.
Braverman was just the catalyst - and might anyway have been slated for removal ?0 -
The rest of the reshuffle is a bit dull. I wanted more crazy blasts from the past.0
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It rather depends if the particular MP on the Tory Right is sitting on a majority of 30k or 10k.Chris said:
It's an interesting question whether the Tory Right will now feel it's disadvantageous to them for the party to lose the next election as heavily as possible.SirNorfolkPassmore said:
I don't think it'd in any way be better for The Tory Party to get the infighting done now. They'd lose more heavily than necessary at the General Election (perhaps catastrophically so), and then they'd still get dragged right in opposition by people saying "told you so".Richard_Tyndall said:
Given they were 99% certain to lose the next election I would suggest that, if they want to drag the party back towards the centre, it would be better (for them rather than the country) to get the infighting happening now and purge the ERG types rather than wait until after the election when they are in Opposition and the Right Wing are far more likely to win the leadership.Leon said:
Too late. I’ve seen itRichard_Tyndall said:
Don't let Leon see that. He is convinced only 3 bumpkins and a scrofulous dog called Bobby wanted Braverman sacked.Scott_xP said:@YouGov
Britons think Rishi Sunak was right rather than wrong to sack Suella Braverman as home secretary
Right to sack her: 57% (44% of Con 2019 voters)
Wrong to sack her: 20% (39% of Con 2019 voters)
https://x.com/YouGov/status/1724071651829043487?s=20
Did I ever say anything different to you? I strongly support Braverman’s stand on the Wokeness but I say - on this thread - she is “clumsy, naive, foolish, maladroit” and much else
I can see why you might sack her. But then, she is the only minister with the guts to stand up to the left and say hard but true things. That’s why she still has the support of half the Tories - as we see in this poll
Sunak has alienated all those Tories - and for what? What does he gain? Does he honestly think millions of grateful people will flock back to the Tories now she’s gone and David Duke of Brexit* has got his feet up in Chevening?
I predict the polls will not shift significantly at all, but Tory infighting will get worse. So: a net negative. That’s bad politics
*that’s mine and I demand copyright0 -
Sunak went through the usual Back, Crack then Sack with Braverman.1
-
-
The Rwanda thing is interesting. It doesn't fit at all with the new grown up tone, as of 9 am this morning, of the top table, and is simply too vulgarian to belong to an establishment party. It is and always was populist nonsense.Andy_JS said:So if the government wins the Rwanda case on Wednesday, Cameron is going to be one of the main politicians putting it into practice? I can't see that happening.
The prospects: Government loses totally: Best outcome for them. Let it be quietly dropped.
Government wins but massively hedged: Second best outcome - it can happen in theory but not in practice. It limps on, but best forgotten.
Government wins comprehensively: Government then has to deliver something it has always known can't work. (Numbers; practicalities). The question will be how quickly this becomes obvious.1 -
Sue Ellen's majority is 26,086.SirNorfolkPassmore said:
It rather depends if the particular MP on the Tory Right is sitting on a majority of 30k or 10k.Chris said:
It's an interesting question whether the Tory Right will now feel it's disadvantageous to them for the party to lose the next election as heavily as possible.SirNorfolkPassmore said:
I don't think it'd in any way be better for The Tory Party to get the infighting done now. They'd lose more heavily than necessary at the General Election (perhaps catastrophically so), and then they'd still get dragged right in opposition by people saying "told you so".Richard_Tyndall said:
Given they were 99% certain to lose the next election I would suggest that, if they want to drag the party back towards the centre, it would be better (for them rather than the country) to get the infighting happening now and purge the ERG types rather than wait until after the election when they are in Opposition and the Right Wing are far more likely to win the leadership.Leon said:
Too late. I’ve seen itRichard_Tyndall said:
Don't let Leon see that. He is convinced only 3 bumpkins and a scrofulous dog called Bobby wanted Braverman sacked.Scott_xP said:@YouGov
Britons think Rishi Sunak was right rather than wrong to sack Suella Braverman as home secretary
Right to sack her: 57% (44% of Con 2019 voters)
Wrong to sack her: 20% (39% of Con 2019 voters)
https://x.com/YouGov/status/1724071651829043487?s=20
Did I ever say anything different to you? I strongly support Braverman’s stand on the Wokeness but I say - on this thread - she is “clumsy, naive, foolish, maladroit” and much else
I can see why you might sack her. But then, she is the only minister with the guts to stand up to the left and say hard but true things. That’s why she still has the support of half the Tories - as we see in this poll
Sunak has alienated all those Tories - and for what? What does he gain? Does he honestly think millions of grateful people will flock back to the Tories now she’s gone and David Duke of Brexit* has got his feet up in Chevening?
I predict the polls will not shift significantly at all, but Tory infighting will get worse. So: a net negative. That’s bad politics
*that’s mine and I demand copyright
;-)0 -
Quite. Even within the semi-religious self-flagellation of their 'no tax cuts' policy, Sunak and Hunt could still have done a lot of beneficial work to simplify the tax system, incentivise investment, improve energy security etc. They chose not to. They're squatting in power running the clock down.Gardenwalker said:What has disappointed me about Rishi is that even on a very narrow view of the laissez-faire lens by which he views the British economy, he’s done nowt.
No interest in deregulating certain bloated sectors, no actual follow through on freeports, no addressing the various rorts in the tax system.
Cameron doesn’t change that, of course.
Just makes him look less stark-staring batshit than having Braverman as the default voice of today’s party.1 -
The polling on Cameron today is EXTREMELY regionally variable. Reinforces my view this is very bad news for the Lib Dems but overall good or neutral for Labour.
"By region, the appeal looks very 'blue-wall'-y....
London: +7 (!)
Rest of South: +1
Wales: -6
North: -8
Scotland: -10
Midlands: -16"
https://x.com/Beyond_Topline/status/1724081033325191494?s=20
And he's scoring +11 in approval from 2019 Lib Dem voters...
0 -
Probably already discussed, but who was the last ex-PM to return as a Cabinet minister? Alec Douglas-Home?2
-
Laura TrottCookie said:
Is rather hot
Like Laura Trott
But she's a cyclist not an aide to the new Foreign Secretary, in case you forgot2 -
Another spin on the Cameron appointment...
Say Sunak resigns, and the Tory party needs a caretaker to take it through the GE, who better than a previous leader?
We have an oven ready replacement for Sunak, should he not make it to the finish line.1 -
Probably about right, but value remains with NOM. 110 majority requires gaining 178 seats net.kinabalu said:I don't think this is about shoring up the Blue Wall having written off the Red One or anything like that. I don't think there's any deep strategy at all going on. Sunak's game is to throw rocks in the pond and job done in this regard. Who saw this play coming? Nobody. That's a 'win' for him in itself. He'll be chuffed and I'm impressed. I revise my Nowcast call on Labour overall majority from 115 to 110.
0 -
A prime minister in the Lords really would be a return to Victorian values.Jonathan said:Another spin on the Cameron appointment...
Say Sunak resigns, and the Tory party needs a caretaker to take it through the GE, who better than a previous leader?
We have an oven ready replacement for Sunak, should he not make it to the finish line.0 -
NYT ($) - Here’s a list of the new U.K. cabinet so far:
Foreign secretary: David Cameron (not in previous cabinet, prime minister 2010 to 2016).
Home secretary: James Cleverly (previously foreign secretary).
Health secretary: Victoria Atkins (formerly financial secretary, a sub-cabinet position in the Treasury).
Secretary for environment, food and rural affairs: Steve Barclay (previously health secretary)
Chief secretary to the Treasury: Laura Trott (formerly a pensions minister).
Conservative Party chairman and minister without portfolio: Richard Holden (previously a transport minister).
Departing cabinet ministers: Suella Braverman, home secretary; Thérèse Coffey, environment secretary.
Some ministers below cabinet rank who have said they are resigning: Jeremy Quin, paymaster general; Nick Gibb, schools minister; Neil O’Brien, a health minister; Rachel Maclean, housing minister.0 -
Cameron would have to stand for Parliament though and win a by election... And in the current political climate that would be... "brave"Jonathan said:Another spin on the Cameron appointment...
Say Sunak resigns, and the Tory party needs a caretaker to take it through the GE, who better than a previous leader?
We have an oven ready replacement for Sunak, should he not make it to the finish line.
0 -
Isn't the cost per asylum seeker something like £170,000 per person? That on its own will go down with many voters like a flagon of cold vomit.algarkirk said:
The Rwanda thing is interesting. It doesn't fit at all with the new grown up tone, as of 9 am this morning, of the top table, and is simply too vulgarian to belong to an establishment party. It is and always was populist nonsense.Andy_JS said:So if the government wins the Rwanda case on Wednesday, Cameron is going to be one of the main politicians putting it into practice? I can't see that happening.
The prospects: Government loses totally: Best outcome for them. Let it be quietly dropped.
Government wins but massively hedged: Second best outcome - it can happen in theory but not in practice. It limps on, but best forgotten.
Government wins comprehensively: Government then has to deliver something it has always known can't work. (Numbers; practicalities). The question will be how quickly this becomes obvious.0 -
Of course it is commonly said that despite having Conservative governments they never reverse the clock by a single second. So what better than having a PM in the Lords.Jonathan said:Another spin on the Cameron appointment...
Say Sunak resigns, and the Tory party needs a caretaker to take it through the GE, who better than a previous leader?
We have an oven ready replacement for Sunak, should he not make it to the finish line.0 -
I am so happy right now.0
-
I get a contrary impression, that he's flailing around, desperate to find the winning move that will save the next election.Casino_Royale said:I think Sunak is essentially like Chris Patten as the Last Governor in Hong Kong after the 1995 elections.
He knows he's doomed but wants to leave with his head held high as a matter of honour, having done the right thing, and stuff the political consequences.1 -
I suspect somewhere between NOM and LAB 100 majority. Maybe LAB 50 maj 😈algarkirk said:
Probably about right, but value remains with NOM. 110 majority requires gaining 178 seats net.kinabalu said:I don't think this is about shoring up the Blue Wall having written off the Red One or anything like that. I don't think there's any deep strategy at all going on. Sunak's game is to throw rocks in the pond and job done in this regard. Who saw this play coming? Nobody. That's a 'win' for him in itself. He'll be chuffed and I'm impressed. I revise my Nowcast call on Labour overall majority from 115 to 110.
0 -
So if we bring back the black & white minstrels it will 'free up' some 'woke space' that we can utilize to (eg) get more women onto the boards of big companies?Cookie said:
I don't think this would have happened at my school 30 years ago, which made almost no show at all of cultural matters.kinabalu said:
It'll take more than a few years of woke to knock over something as strong and deep-rooted as the patriarchy.Cookie said:
An unrelated anecdote on woke (to illustrate that Leon is not the only poster who mentions itJosiasJessop said:
Oddly enough, as you're about the only poster who ever mentions 'woke', I assume that you suffer from 'woke madness' ?Leon said:
But Suella was totemic for Tories who want to see someone - anyone - fighting the Woke madness. Not because she’s great - she’s maladroit and foolish and needs to shape up - but because she seems to be the only one doing that. The only person with actual right wing beliefs who is - was - prepared to tell the guardian and the BBC to get stuffedDavidL said:
The consensus from the various journalists etc being interviewed on R5 and TWAO was that this was a clever or canny move by Sunak. Not something heard, well, ever actually. Almost no dissenting voices.Leon said:
Daily Mail:Gardenwalker said:
Why?Leon said:
Yeah. I’ve gone from thinking “this is amusing” to “this will have mixed results” to “this will be a disaster”Mortimer said:
My local party mates are all appalled.TimS said:It's an interesting gambit, this pivot towards the old school centre-right. The more I think about it the more I think the impact on polling and electoral chances is going to be very mixed by region. I do think there is a problem brewing for the Lib Dems in the home counties here. Especially if Hunt unveils tax cuts for the higher paid this month or in spring. Look at TSE's reaction, and Topping's, and (though I appreciate not from the home counties) BigG's. The disaffected Cameroons have been looking around for some excuse to come home, and here it is.
Whereas for Labour in the North and Midlands this return to the old crew that brought austerity, stagnation and plummy accents to cabinet this must be a gift.
It's interesting to see Sunak doing precisely the opposite of what PB Tories have been advising him in recent days. He's going after the Lib Dems and the centre, and saying yah boo to the Refuk-curious. Let's see what happens to Lib Dem VI in the coming weeks as that may tell us if the blue wall gambit has succeeded.
Much sympathy with Braverman, none with Sunak....
Sunak has just annoyed far more people than he’s pleased
“Gutless Rishi Sunak sacks Suella Braverman and signs the end of the Tory party in government.
She was right about hate marches.
Sacking Suella is an own goal for the Tories.
Keir Starmer must be rejoicing.”
https://x.com/amandajplatell/status/1723991879929286965?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw
Daily Telegraph:
“At the Cenotaph on Saturday, there was huge support for Suella among people from all walks of life.
Rishi Sunak should resign. He is utterly useless.”
https://x.com/allisonpearson/status/1724019215433191523?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw
Sunak has ENRAGED the right. Alienating swathes of voters. Meanwhile, who is really gonna shift their vote TO the Tories because Old Etonian Dave “Brexit loser” Cameron is back as Foreign Secretary, as an unelected Lord?
Really, who? About 3 people on here. That’s it
At the risk of doxing myself as the true Spartacus even the fact that the BBC seems to like it doesn't persuade me that it is a bad idea.
Braverman was a deeply unpleasant menace who has been damaging the government almost from the day she was reappointed. Cleverly may keep similar policies but will very definitely not have the same tone as her. The government will start to sound more like a government and less like a Trump rally.
Cameron is more skilled as a politician than literally anyone in the existing cabinet (admittedly an extremely low bar). I hope he can help create a more coherent voice that has some idea of why it is there.
I’m not surprised the BBC is pleased
And add to that sacking - guaranteeing Tory infighting - the appointment of loser Cameron? You are unusual in your admiration. Polls show he’s deeply unpopular. Remainers hate him, many leavers scoff at him
So will this do anything good for the Tories? My bet is no. I don’t think it will shift the polls significantly, but what it will do is not good for Sunak: it exposes the huge rifts in Toryism right before the election ) : at a local secondary school - which when I last visited 18 months ago was as woke as could be: 75% of the material on the walls of corridors dealt with either sexuality, gender or race (valid concerns, but surely not worthy of 75% of any school's mental effort), it turns out that some opinions are actually quite old-fashioned: when the boys' football team's bus breaks down, they simply requisition the girls' netball team's bus, and the girl's netball team doesn't play; and when the boys' sports hall is out of action, they requisition the girls' sports hall, and girls' PE is cancelled.
I don't know if this is because actually the woke is just for show, or because girls are no longer a concern of woke.
You know the theory about people having a certain inbuilt level of safety? And if you make them safer in some respects, they will compensate by taking more risks? Give them a seatbelt, they will drive 10mph faster; give them a cycle helmet they will jump that red light? I have a nascent theory that people have a certain inbuilt level of woke (yes I hate the word too, but you know what I mean and I will happily use a better one if one can be found). Make them woker in respect a, they will consider themselves woke and thereby not have to behave at all woke in respect b.
Not really thought it through properly but that's what it feels like to me.
Hmmm. There's a particular chestnut that I've never yet used and here's my big chance. It's a View!
Ah that felt good.0 -
Starting with Steve Bannon and Donald Trump.Andy_JS said:This is a sad day for all of us Braverman fans.
3 -
Yes, but on the other hand, the nowcast projection is a majority of 2,957 over Labour, with a juicy 9,000 or so Lib Dem votes for Labour to squeeze.Chris said:
Sue Ellen's majority is 26,086.SirNorfolkPassmore said:
It rather depends if the particular MP on the Tory Right is sitting on a majority of 30k or 10k.Chris said:
It's an interesting question whether the Tory Right will now feel it's disadvantageous to them for the party to lose the next election as heavily as possible.SirNorfolkPassmore said:
I don't think it'd in any way be better for The Tory Party to get the infighting done now. They'd lose more heavily than necessary at the General Election (perhaps catastrophically so), and then they'd still get dragged right in opposition by people saying "told you so".Richard_Tyndall said:
Given they were 99% certain to lose the next election I would suggest that, if they want to drag the party back towards the centre, it would be better (for them rather than the country) to get the infighting happening now and purge the ERG types rather than wait until after the election when they are in Opposition and the Right Wing are far more likely to win the leadership.Leon said:
Too late. I’ve seen itRichard_Tyndall said:
Don't let Leon see that. He is convinced only 3 bumpkins and a scrofulous dog called Bobby wanted Braverman sacked.Scott_xP said:@YouGov
Britons think Rishi Sunak was right rather than wrong to sack Suella Braverman as home secretary
Right to sack her: 57% (44% of Con 2019 voters)
Wrong to sack her: 20% (39% of Con 2019 voters)
https://x.com/YouGov/status/1724071651829043487?s=20
Did I ever say anything different to you? I strongly support Braverman’s stand on the Wokeness but I say - on this thread - she is “clumsy, naive, foolish, maladroit” and much else
I can see why you might sack her. But then, she is the only minister with the guts to stand up to the left and say hard but true things. That’s why she still has the support of half the Tories - as we see in this poll
Sunak has alienated all those Tories - and for what? What does he gain? Does he honestly think millions of grateful people will flock back to the Tories now she’s gone and David Duke of Brexit* has got his feet up in Chevening?
I predict the polls will not shift significantly at all, but Tory infighting will get worse. So: a net negative. That’s bad politics
*that’s mine and I demand copyright
;-)
Unlikely, but it would be very very funny.1 -
My missus, who doesn’t particularly follow politics, was unusually vociferous at the Cameron news when I spoke to her earlier. Entirely unbidden and pretty much verbatim:
‘Cameron?! Are they taking the fucking piss? He caused all this shit in the first place!’
Helluva girl.4 -
I've no idea whether he made money out of it or not. I suspect he probably didn't because it didn't work but that is not the point. The point is it was an unseemly use of his influence as a former PM. It would not surprise me if his willingness to answer the call now was not unrelated to the desire that that episode should not be his final epitaph.Luckyguy1983 said:
Given that (presumably) he made a lot of money, and his return to politics has not been encumbered in any way, it seems he made a very correct judgement.DavidL said:
I agree. A serious error of judgment.rcs1000 said:
His lobbying was extremely unhappy unseemly.DavidL said:
That was a dog that didn't seem to bark in the end. For example, the huge guarantee granted somewhat injudiciously by the Scottish Government doesn't seem to have been called upon. But it wasn't Cameron's finest hour, of that there is no doubt.rcs1000 said:Re Cameron, given his involvement in the Greensill collapse, I'm not sure he should be allowed anywhere near the levers of power.
1 -
Well that's a loada hooey, isn't it?TimS said:The polling on Cameron today is EXTREMELY regionally variable. Reinforces my view this is very bad news for the Lib Dems but overall good or neutral for Labour.
"By region, the appeal looks very 'blue-wall'-y....
London: +7 (!)
Rest of South: +1
Wales: -6
North: -8
Scotland: -10
Midlands: -16"
https://x.com/Beyond_Topline/status/1724081033325191494?s=20
And he's scoring +1 in approval from 2019 Lib Dem voters...
It's a poll of "whether you think David Duke of Brexit will be competent as Foreign Secretary". I mean, the guy was prime minister for seven years, he's quite experienced, I'm not a huge fan, but I imagine he can pull off a ministerial visit to New Delhi without accidentally sodomising Narendra Modi with a vintage saxophone. He'll swerve that one, and do OK
Would that be enough to make me vote for the Tories in a southern marginal is an utterly different question. My guess is that it won't mean jack shit in a cack sandwich3 -
Her losing and I might die from pissing myself laughing.Stuartinromford said:
Yes, but on the other hand, the nowcast projection is a majority of 2,957 over Labour, with a juicy 9,000 or so Lib Dem votes for Labour to squeeze.Chris said:
Sue Ellen's majority is 26,086.SirNorfolkPassmore said:
It rather depends if the particular MP on the Tory Right is sitting on a majority of 30k or 10k.Chris said:
It's an interesting question whether the Tory Right will now feel it's disadvantageous to them for the party to lose the next election as heavily as possible.SirNorfolkPassmore said:
I don't think it'd in any way be better for The Tory Party to get the infighting done now. They'd lose more heavily than necessary at the General Election (perhaps catastrophically so), and then they'd still get dragged right in opposition by people saying "told you so".Richard_Tyndall said:
Given they were 99% certain to lose the next election I would suggest that, if they want to drag the party back towards the centre, it would be better (for them rather than the country) to get the infighting happening now and purge the ERG types rather than wait until after the election when they are in Opposition and the Right Wing are far more likely to win the leadership.Leon said:
Too late. I’ve seen itRichard_Tyndall said:
Don't let Leon see that. He is convinced only 3 bumpkins and a scrofulous dog called Bobby wanted Braverman sacked.Scott_xP said:@YouGov
Britons think Rishi Sunak was right rather than wrong to sack Suella Braverman as home secretary
Right to sack her: 57% (44% of Con 2019 voters)
Wrong to sack her: 20% (39% of Con 2019 voters)
https://x.com/YouGov/status/1724071651829043487?s=20
Did I ever say anything different to you? I strongly support Braverman’s stand on the Wokeness but I say - on this thread - she is “clumsy, naive, foolish, maladroit” and much else
I can see why you might sack her. But then, she is the only minister with the guts to stand up to the left and say hard but true things. That’s why she still has the support of half the Tories - as we see in this poll
Sunak has alienated all those Tories - and for what? What does he gain? Does he honestly think millions of grateful people will flock back to the Tories now she’s gone and David Duke of Brexit* has got his feet up in Chevening?
I predict the polls will not shift significantly at all, but Tory infighting will get worse. So: a net negative. That’s bad politics
*that’s mine and I demand copyright
;-)
Unlikely, but it would be very very funny.0 -
"Science minister George Freeman resigns
In a letter to the PM, science minister George Freeman says he is standing down "with a heavy heart". Freeman says "the time has come for me to focus on my health, family wellbeing and life beyond the front bench"."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-673704210 -
I wouldn't have said binning HS2 was something you would agree with.Casino_Royale said:I think Sunak is essentially like Chris Patten as the Last Governor in Hong Kong after the 1995 elections.
He knows he's doomed but wants to leave with his head held high as a matter of honour, having done the right thing, and stuff the political consequences.
Honour and doing the right thing (i..e making the UK look like a country where projects can be done successfully) would have HS2 being worked on to completion and not cancelled in such an incompetent way.2 -
Lord Heseltine to replace 30p Lee?numbertwelve said:The rest of the reshuffle is a bit dull. I wanted more crazy blasts from the past.
2 -
Ah, then I forgotAnabobazina said:
Quite a lot
About Laura Trott
Not that one, the other one - good spot4 -
Of course her personal vote would need to be taken into account ...Stuartinromford said:
Yes, but on the other hand, the nowcast projection is a majority of 2,957 over Labour, with a juicy 9,000 or so Lib Dem votes for Labour to squeeze.Chris said:
Sue Ellen's majority is 26,086.SirNorfolkPassmore said:
It rather depends if the particular MP on the Tory Right is sitting on a majority of 30k or 10k.Chris said:
It's an interesting question whether the Tory Right will now feel it's disadvantageous to them for the party to lose the next election as heavily as possible.SirNorfolkPassmore said:
I don't think it'd in any way be better for The Tory Party to get the infighting done now. They'd lose more heavily than necessary at the General Election (perhaps catastrophically so), and then they'd still get dragged right in opposition by people saying "told you so".Richard_Tyndall said:
Given they were 99% certain to lose the next election I would suggest that, if they want to drag the party back towards the centre, it would be better (for them rather than the country) to get the infighting happening now and purge the ERG types rather than wait until after the election when they are in Opposition and the Right Wing are far more likely to win the leadership.Leon said:
Too late. I’ve seen itRichard_Tyndall said:
Don't let Leon see that. He is convinced only 3 bumpkins and a scrofulous dog called Bobby wanted Braverman sacked.Scott_xP said:@YouGov
Britons think Rishi Sunak was right rather than wrong to sack Suella Braverman as home secretary
Right to sack her: 57% (44% of Con 2019 voters)
Wrong to sack her: 20% (39% of Con 2019 voters)
https://x.com/YouGov/status/1724071651829043487?s=20
Did I ever say anything different to you? I strongly support Braverman’s stand on the Wokeness but I say - on this thread - she is “clumsy, naive, foolish, maladroit” and much else
I can see why you might sack her. But then, she is the only minister with the guts to stand up to the left and say hard but true things. That’s why she still has the support of half the Tories - as we see in this poll
Sunak has alienated all those Tories - and for what? What does he gain? Does he honestly think millions of grateful people will flock back to the Tories now she’s gone and David Duke of Brexit* has got his feet up in Chevening?
I predict the polls will not shift significantly at all, but Tory infighting will get worse. So: a net negative. That’s bad politics
*that’s mine and I demand copyright
;-)
Unlikely, but it would be very very funny.1 -
The next episode in this gripping political drama reveals that Sunak's strategy all along has been to get Starmer to pitch his tent on centre right ground and then dodge to the other side of him.
It's time for a change from this leaden gloomy centre right stuff.
"We need a radical reshaping of our infrastructure, our relationship with Europe, dealing with climate change and a fundamental rethink of our financial policies."
As the episode ends, the big reveal is the appointment of Boris as PM to sell this positive vision to the British public who yearn for a centre left positive vision while poor Keir Starmer is left stranded on his centre right ground.1 -
If the CPI figures are shyte on Wed, we can replace Hunt with Osborne. Or maybe Gordon Brown.Anabobazina said:
Lord Heseltine to replace 30p Lee?numbertwelve said:The rest of the reshuffle is a bit dull. I wanted more crazy blasts from the past.
0 -
Who?Andy_JS said:"Science minister George Freeman resigns
In a letter to the PM, science minister George Freeman says he is standing down "with a heavy heart". Freeman says "the time has come for me to focus on my health, family wellbeing and life beyond the front bench"."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-673704210 -
Well yes, I recognise the absurdity of that. That’s the analog of the ‘put a sharp spike in the steering wheel and people will drive REALLY carefully’ argument.kinabalu said:
So if we bring back the black & white minstrels it will 'free up' some 'woke space' that we can utilize to (eg) get more women onto the boards of big companies?Cookie said:
I don't think this would have happened at my school 30 years ago, which made almost no show at all of cultural matters.kinabalu said:
It'll take more than a few years of woke to knock over something as strong and deep-rooted as the patriarchy.Cookie said:
An unrelated anecdote on woke (to illustrate that Leon is not the only poster who mentions itJosiasJessop said:
Oddly enough, as you're about the only poster who ever mentions 'woke', I assume that you suffer from 'woke madness' ?Leon said:
But Suella was totemic for Tories who want to see someone - anyone - fighting the Woke madness. Not because she’s great - she’s maladroit and foolish and needs to shape up - but because she seems to be the only one doing that. The only person with actual right wing beliefs who is - was - prepared to tell the guardian and the BBC to get stuffedDavidL said:
The consensus from the various journalists etc being interviewed on R5 and TWAO was that this was a clever or canny move by Sunak. Not something heard, well, ever actually. Almost no dissenting voices.Leon said:
Daily Mail:Gardenwalker said:
Why?Leon said:
Yeah. I’ve gone from thinking “this is amusing” to “this will have mixed results” to “this will be a disaster”Mortimer said:
My local party mates are all appalled.TimS said:It's an interesting gambit, this pivot towards the old school centre-right. The more I think about it the more I think the impact on polling and electoral chances is going to be very mixed by region. I do think there is a problem brewing for the Lib Dems in the home counties here. Especially if Hunt unveils tax cuts for the higher paid this month or in spring. Look at TSE's reaction, and Topping's, and (though I appreciate not from the home counties) BigG's. The disaffected Cameroons have been looking around for some excuse to come home, and here it is.
Whereas for Labour in the North and Midlands this return to the old crew that brought austerity, stagnation and plummy accents to cabinet this must be a gift.
It's interesting to see Sunak doing precisely the opposite of what PB Tories have been advising him in recent days. He's going after the Lib Dems and the centre, and saying yah boo to the Refuk-curious. Let's see what happens to Lib Dem VI in the coming weeks as that may tell us if the blue wall gambit has succeeded.
Much sympathy with Braverman, none with Sunak....
Sunak has just annoyed far more people than he’s pleased
“Gutless Rishi Sunak sacks Suella Braverman and signs the end of the Tory party in government.
She was right about hate marches.
Sacking Suella is an own goal for the Tories.
Keir Starmer must be rejoicing.”
https://x.com/amandajplatell/status/1723991879929286965?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw
Daily Telegraph:
“At the Cenotaph on Saturday, there was huge support for Suella among people from all walks of life.
Rishi Sunak should resign. He is utterly useless.”
https://x.com/allisonpearson/status/1724019215433191523?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw
Sunak has ENRAGED the right. Alienating swathes of voters. Meanwhile, who is really gonna shift their vote TO the Tories because Old Etonian Dave “Brexit loser” Cameron is back as Foreign Secretary, as an unelected Lord?
Really, who? About 3 people on here. That’s it
At the risk of doxing myself as the true Spartacus even the fact that the BBC seems to like it doesn't persuade me that it is a bad idea.
Braverman was a deeply unpleasant menace who has been damaging the government almost from the day she was reappointed. Cleverly may keep similar policies but will very definitely not have the same tone as her. The government will start to sound more like a government and less like a Trump rally.
Cameron is more skilled as a politician than literally anyone in the existing cabinet (admittedly an extremely low bar). I hope he can help create a more coherent voice that has some idea of why it is there.
I’m not surprised the BBC is pleased
And add to that sacking - guaranteeing Tory infighting - the appointment of loser Cameron? You are unusual in your admiration. Polls show he’s deeply unpopular. Remainers hate him, many leavers scoff at him
So will this do anything good for the Tories? My bet is no. I don’t think it will shift the polls significantly, but what it will do is not good for Sunak: it exposes the huge rifts in Toryism right before the election ) : at a local secondary school - which when I last visited 18 months ago was as woke as could be: 75% of the material on the walls of corridors dealt with either sexuality, gender or race (valid concerns, but surely not worthy of 75% of any school's mental effort), it turns out that some opinions are actually quite old-fashioned: when the boys' football team's bus breaks down, they simply requisition the girls' netball team's bus, and the girl's netball team doesn't play; and when the boys' sports hall is out of action, they requisition the girls' sports hall, and girls' PE is cancelled.
I don't know if this is because actually the woke is just for show, or because girls are no longer a concern of woke.
You know the theory about people having a certain inbuilt level of safety? And if you make them safer in some respects, they will compensate by taking more risks? Give them a seatbelt, they will drive 10mph faster; give them a cycle helmet they will jump that red light? I have a nascent theory that people have a certain inbuilt level of woke (yes I hate the word too, but you know what I mean and I will happily use a better one if one can be found). Make them woker in respect a, they will consider themselves woke and thereby not have to behave at all woke in respect b.
Not really thought it through properly but that's what it feels like to me.
Hmmm. There's a particular chestnut that I've never yet used and here's my big chance. It's a View!
Ah that felt good.1 -
Can say the same of Cleverly, though. Truss, on the other hand...Leon said:
Well that's a loada hooey, isn't it?TimS said:The polling on Cameron today is EXTREMELY regionally variable. Reinforces my view this is very bad news for the Lib Dems but overall good or neutral for Labour.
"By region, the appeal looks very 'blue-wall'-y....
London: +7 (!)
Rest of South: +1
Wales: -6
North: -8
Scotland: -10
Midlands: -16"
https://x.com/Beyond_Topline/status/1724081033325191494?s=20
And he's scoring +1 in approval from 2019 Lib Dem voters...
It's a poll of "whether you think David Duke of Brexit will be competent as Foreign Secretary". I mean, the guy was prime minister for seven years, he's quite experienced, I'm not a huge fan, but I imagine he can pull off a ministerial visit to New Delhi without accidentally sodomising Narendra Modi with a vintage saxophone. He'll swerve that one, and do OK
Would that be enough to make me vote for the Tories in a southern marginal is an utterly different question. My guess is that it won't mean jack shit in a cack sandwich
Ditching Braverman probably helps in nice southern marginals, though.0 -
Why? I'm not taking the piss, as we all know you're a big fan of the bloke, but what is he going to do? At best, for me, he brings a little bit of sanity to the government. But even you must realise that he's a massively divisive figure. And he's still in the government that has been the worst in my lifetime.TheScreamingEagles said:I am so happy right now.
0 -
David Duke of Brexit wins post of the day. I award you your prize of a pack of 20 Marlboros.Leon said:
Well that's a loada hooey, isn't it?TimS said:The polling on Cameron today is EXTREMELY regionally variable. Reinforces my view this is very bad news for the Lib Dems but overall good or neutral for Labour.
"By region, the appeal looks very 'blue-wall'-y....
London: +7 (!)
Rest of South: +1
Wales: -6
North: -8
Scotland: -10
Midlands: -16"
https://x.com/Beyond_Topline/status/1724081033325191494?s=20
And he's scoring +1 in approval from 2019 Lib Dem voters...
It's a poll of "whether you think David Duke of Brexit will be competent as Foreign Secretary". I mean, the guy was prime minister for seven years, he's quite experienced, I'm not a huge fan, but I imagine he can pull off a ministerial visit to New Delhi without accidentally sodomising Narendra Modi with a vintage saxophone. He'll swerve that one, and do OK
Would that be enough to make me vote for the Tories in a southern marginal is an utterly different question. My guess is that it won't mean jack shit in a cack sandwich0 -
You wouldn't be up for some jury service, by any chance?kjh said:
Agree (as usual). Quite impressed with that clever move. FS is the least political job. There is often consensus on policies and Cameron will be considered a serious appointment by foreign leaders. It might lose some votes to Reform helping Labour in the red wall, but might save seats in the blue wall at a cost to the LDs. Only criticism is not being able to find someone from his own MPsDavidL said:
The consensus from the various journalists etc being interviewed on R5 and TWAO was that this was a clever or canny move by Sunak. Not something heard, well, ever actually. Almost no dissenting voices.Leon said:
Daily Mail:Gardenwalker said:
Why?Leon said:
Yeah. I’ve gone from thinking “this is amusing” to “this will have mixed results” to “this will be a disaster”Mortimer said:
My local party mates are all appalled.TimS said:It's an interesting gambit, this pivot towards the old school centre-right. The more I think about it the more I think the impact on polling and electoral chances is going to be very mixed by region. I do think there is a problem brewing for the Lib Dems in the home counties here. Especially if Hunt unveils tax cuts for the higher paid this month or in spring. Look at TSE's reaction, and Topping's, and (though I appreciate not from the home counties) BigG's. The disaffected Cameroons have been looking around for some excuse to come home, and here it is.
Whereas for Labour in the North and Midlands this return to the old crew that brought austerity, stagnation and plummy accents to cabinet this must be a gift.
It's interesting to see Sunak doing precisely the opposite of what PB Tories have been advising him in recent days. He's going after the Lib Dems and the centre, and saying yah boo to the Refuk-curious. Let's see what happens to Lib Dem VI in the coming weeks as that may tell us if the blue wall gambit has succeeded.
Much sympathy with Braverman, none with Sunak....
Sunak has just annoyed far more people than he’s pleased
“Gutless Rishi Sunak sacks Suella Braverman and signs the end of the Tory party in government.
She was right about hate marches.
Sacking Suella is an own goal for the Tories.
Keir Starmer must be rejoicing.”
https://x.com/amandajplatell/status/1723991879929286965?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw
Daily Telegraph:
“At the Cenotaph on Saturday, there was huge support for Suella among people from all walks of life.
Rishi Sunak should resign. He is utterly useless.”
https://x.com/allisonpearson/status/1724019215433191523?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw
Sunak has ENRAGED the right. Alienating swathes of voters. Meanwhile, who is really gonna shift their vote TO the Tories because Old Etonian Dave “Brexit loser” Cameron is back as Foreign Secretary, as an unelected Lord?
Really, who? About 3 people on here. That’s it
At the risk of doxing myself as the true Spartacus even the fact that the BBC seems to like it doesn't persuade me that it is a bad idea.
Braverman was a deeply unpleasant menace who has been damaging the government almost from the day she was reappointed. Cleverly may keep similar policies but will very definitely not have the same tone as her. The government will start to sound more like a government and less like a Trump rally.
Cameron is more skilled as a politician than literally anyone in the existing cabinet (admittedly an extremely low bar). I hope he can help create a more coherent voice that has some idea of why it is there.
But overall a good bit of lateral thinking by Rushi. I suspect getting support from both the likes of @TheScreamingEagles and @HYUFD .0 -
Rich coming from the party that hasnt had a BAME leader and thinks women are for making the tea.kinabalu said:
So if we bring back the black & white minstrels it will 'free up' some 'woke space' that we can utilize to (eg) get more women onto the boards of big companies?Cookie said:
I don't think this would have happened at my school 30 years ago, which made almost no show at all of cultural matters.kinabalu said:
It'll take more than a few years of woke to knock over something as strong and deep-rooted as the patriarchy.Cookie said:
An unrelated anecdote on woke (to illustrate that Leon is not the only poster who mentions itJosiasJessop said:
Oddly enough, as you're about the only poster who ever mentions 'woke', I assume that you suffer from 'woke madness' ?Leon said:
But Suella was totemic for Tories who want to see someone - anyone - fighting the Woke madness. Not because she’s great - she’s maladroit and foolish and needs to shape up - but because she seems to be the only one doing that. The only person with actual right wing beliefs who is - was - prepared to tell the guardian and the BBC to get stuffedDavidL said:
The consensus from the various journalists etc being interviewed on R5 and TWAO was that this was a clever or canny move by Sunak. Not something heard, well, ever actually. Almost no dissenting voices.Leon said:
Daily Mail:Gardenwalker said:
Why?Leon said:
Yeah. I’ve gone from thinking “this is amusing” to “this will have mixed results” to “this will be a disaster”Mortimer said:
My local party mates are all appalled.TimS said:It's an interesting gambit, this pivot towards the old school centre-right. The more I think about it the more I think the impact on polling and electoral chances is going to be very mixed by region. I do think there is a problem brewing for the Lib Dems in the home counties here. Especially if Hunt unveils tax cuts for the higher paid this month or in spring. Look at TSE's reaction, and Topping's, and (though I appreciate not from the home counties) BigG's. The disaffected Cameroons have been looking around for some excuse to come home, and here it is.
Whereas for Labour in the North and Midlands this return to the old crew that brought austerity, stagnation and plummy accents to cabinet this must be a gift.
It's interesting to see Sunak doing precisely the opposite of what PB Tories have been advising him in recent days. He's going after the Lib Dems and the centre, and saying yah boo to the Refuk-curious. Let's see what happens to Lib Dem VI in the coming weeks as that may tell us if the blue wall gambit has succeeded.
Much sympathy with Braverman, none with Sunak....
Sunak has just annoyed far more people than he’s pleased
“Gutless Rishi Sunak sacks Suella Braverman and signs the end of the Tory party in government.
She was right about hate marches.
Sacking Suella is an own goal for the Tories.
Keir Starmer must be rejoicing.”
https://x.com/amandajplatell/status/1723991879929286965?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw
Daily Telegraph:
“At the Cenotaph on Saturday, there was huge support for Suella among people from all walks of life.
Rishi Sunak should resign. He is utterly useless.”
https://x.com/allisonpearson/status/1724019215433191523?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw
Sunak has ENRAGED the right. Alienating swathes of voters. Meanwhile, who is really gonna shift their vote TO the Tories because Old Etonian Dave “Brexit loser” Cameron is back as Foreign Secretary, as an unelected Lord?
Really, who? About 3 people on here. That’s it
At the risk of doxing myself as the true Spartacus even the fact that the BBC seems to like it doesn't persuade me that it is a bad idea.
Braverman was a deeply unpleasant menace who has been damaging the government almost from the day she was reappointed. Cleverly may keep similar policies but will very definitely not have the same tone as her. The government will start to sound more like a government and less like a Trump rally.
Cameron is more skilled as a politician than literally anyone in the existing cabinet (admittedly an extremely low bar). I hope he can help create a more coherent voice that has some idea of why it is there.
I’m not surprised the BBC is pleased
And add to that sacking - guaranteeing Tory infighting - the appointment of loser Cameron? You are unusual in your admiration. Polls show he’s deeply unpopular. Remainers hate him, many leavers scoff at him
So will this do anything good for the Tories? My bet is no. I don’t think it will shift the polls significantly, but what it will do is not good for Sunak: it exposes the huge rifts in Toryism right before the election ) : at a local secondary school - which when I last visited 18 months ago was as woke as could be: 75% of the material on the walls of corridors dealt with either sexuality, gender or race (valid concerns, but surely not worthy of 75% of any school's mental effort), it turns out that some opinions are actually quite old-fashioned: when the boys' football team's bus breaks down, they simply requisition the girls' netball team's bus, and the girl's netball team doesn't play; and when the boys' sports hall is out of action, they requisition the girls' sports hall, and girls' PE is cancelled.
I don't know if this is because actually the woke is just for show, or because girls are no longer a concern of woke.
You know the theory about people having a certain inbuilt level of safety? And if you make them safer in some respects, they will compensate by taking more risks? Give them a seatbelt, they will drive 10mph faster; give them a cycle helmet they will jump that red light? I have a nascent theory that people have a certain inbuilt level of woke (yes I hate the word too, but you know what I mean and I will happily use a better one if one can be found). Make them woker in respect a, they will consider themselves woke and thereby not have to behave at all woke in respect b.
Not really thought it through properly but that's what it feels like to me.
Hmmm. There's a particular chestnut that I've never yet used and here's my big chance. It's a View!
Ah that felt good.
0 -
So what was Dr No's involvement in all this?1
-
The Rest Is Politics
🚨EMERGENCY POD🚨
Join us LIVE on YouTube at 4.30pm GMT today as Rory and Alastair discuss the unfolding political drama.
The emergency pod button has been pushed as David Cameron returns to Government and Suella Braverman is sacked.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MukFJRQP2VI0 -
In truth, sheAnabobazina said:
Is more toothy
Than the Olympic gold pedaler, who would seem a better choice to me
At the Treasury.3 -
Gratuitous! Exiled to Conservative Home with Suella for several days.kinabalu said:
So if we bring back the black & white minstrels it will 'free up' some 'woke space' that we can utilize to (eg) get more women onto the boards of big companies?Cookie said:
I don't think this would have happened at my school 30 years ago, which made almost no show at all of cultural matters.kinabalu said:
It'll take more than a few years of woke to knock over something as strong and deep-rooted as the patriarchy.Cookie said:
An unrelated anecdote on woke (to illustrate that Leon is not the only poster who mentions itJosiasJessop said:
Oddly enough, as you're about the only poster who ever mentions 'woke', I assume that you suffer from 'woke madness' ?Leon said:
But Suella was totemic for Tories who want to see someone - anyone - fighting the Woke madness. Not because she’s great - she’s maladroit and foolish and needs to shape up - but because she seems to be the only one doing that. The only person with actual right wing beliefs who is - was - prepared to tell the guardian and the BBC to get stuffedDavidL said:
The consensus from the various journalists etc being interviewed on R5 and TWAO was that this was a clever or canny move by Sunak. Not something heard, well, ever actually. Almost no dissenting voices.Leon said:
Daily Mail:Gardenwalker said:
Why?Leon said:
Yeah. I’ve gone from thinking “this is amusing” to “this will have mixed results” to “this will be a disaster”Mortimer said:
My local party mates are all appalled.TimS said:It's an interesting gambit, this pivot towards the old school centre-right. The more I think about it the more I think the impact on polling and electoral chances is going to be very mixed by region. I do think there is a problem brewing for the Lib Dems in the home counties here. Especially if Hunt unveils tax cuts for the higher paid this month or in spring. Look at TSE's reaction, and Topping's, and (though I appreciate not from the home counties) BigG's. The disaffected Cameroons have been looking around for some excuse to come home, and here it is.
Whereas for Labour in the North and Midlands this return to the old crew that brought austerity, stagnation and plummy accents to cabinet this must be a gift.
It's interesting to see Sunak doing precisely the opposite of what PB Tories have been advising him in recent days. He's going after the Lib Dems and the centre, and saying yah boo to the Refuk-curious. Let's see what happens to Lib Dem VI in the coming weeks as that may tell us if the blue wall gambit has succeeded.
Much sympathy with Braverman, none with Sunak....
Sunak has just annoyed far more people than he’s pleased
“Gutless Rishi Sunak sacks Suella Braverman and signs the end of the Tory party in government.
She was right about hate marches.
Sacking Suella is an own goal for the Tories.
Keir Starmer must be rejoicing.”
https://x.com/amandajplatell/status/1723991879929286965?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw
Daily Telegraph:
“At the Cenotaph on Saturday, there was huge support for Suella among people from all walks of life.
Rishi Sunak should resign. He is utterly useless.”
https://x.com/allisonpearson/status/1724019215433191523?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw
Sunak has ENRAGED the right. Alienating swathes of voters. Meanwhile, who is really gonna shift their vote TO the Tories because Old Etonian Dave “Brexit loser” Cameron is back as Foreign Secretary, as an unelected Lord?
Really, who? About 3 people on here. That’s it
At the risk of doxing myself as the true Spartacus even the fact that the BBC seems to like it doesn't persuade me that it is a bad idea.
Braverman was a deeply unpleasant menace who has been damaging the government almost from the day she was reappointed. Cleverly may keep similar policies but will very definitely not have the same tone as her. The government will start to sound more like a government and less like a Trump rally.
Cameron is more skilled as a politician than literally anyone in the existing cabinet (admittedly an extremely low bar). I hope he can help create a more coherent voice that has some idea of why it is there.
I’m not surprised the BBC is pleased
And add to that sacking - guaranteeing Tory infighting - the appointment of loser Cameron? You are unusual in your admiration. Polls show he’s deeply unpopular. Remainers hate him, many leavers scoff at him
So will this do anything good for the Tories? My bet is no. I don’t think it will shift the polls significantly, but what it will do is not good for Sunak: it exposes the huge rifts in Toryism right before the election ) : at a local secondary school - which when I last visited 18 months ago was as woke as could be: 75% of the material on the walls of corridors dealt with either sexuality, gender or race (valid concerns, but surely not worthy of 75% of any school's mental effort), it turns out that some opinions are actually quite old-fashioned: when the boys' football team's bus breaks down, they simply requisition the girls' netball team's bus, and the girl's netball team doesn't play; and when the boys' sports hall is out of action, they requisition the girls' sports hall, and girls' PE is cancelled.
I don't know if this is because actually the woke is just for show, or because girls are no longer a concern of woke.
You know the theory about people having a certain inbuilt level of safety? And if you make them safer in some respects, they will compensate by taking more risks? Give them a seatbelt, they will drive 10mph faster; give them a cycle helmet they will jump that red light? I have a nascent theory that people have a certain inbuilt level of woke (yes I hate the word too, but you know what I mean and I will happily use a better one if one can be found). Make them woker in respect a, they will consider themselves woke and thereby not have to behave at all woke in respect b.
Not really thought it through properly but that's what it feels like to me.
Hmmm. There's a particular chestnut that I've never yet used and here's my big chance. It's a View!
Ah that felt good.0 -
Freeman is a free man.Andy_JS said:"Science minister George Freeman resigns
In a letter to the PM, science minister George Freeman says he is standing down "with a heavy heart". Freeman says "the time has come for me to focus on my health, family wellbeing and life beyond the front bench"."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-673704210 -
I hope you're right. But if the question is would it be enough to make people vote for the Tories in a Southern marginal, it does at least tell us "more so than in a Midlands seat". Like most competency questions, will he do a good job is a proxy for do you like him.Leon said:
Well that's a loada hooey, isn't it?TimS said:The polling on Cameron today is EXTREMELY regionally variable. Reinforces my view this is very bad news for the Lib Dems but overall good or neutral for Labour.
"By region, the appeal looks very 'blue-wall'-y....
London: +7 (!)
Rest of South: +1
Wales: -6
North: -8
Scotland: -10
Midlands: -16"
https://x.com/Beyond_Topline/status/1724081033325191494?s=20
And he's scoring +1 in approval from 2019 Lib Dem voters...
It's a poll of "whether you think David Duke of Brexit will be competent as Foreign Secretary". I mean, the guy was prime minister for seven years, he's quite experienced, I'm not a huge fan, but I imagine he can pull off a ministerial visit to New Delhi without accidentally sodomising Narendra Modi with a vintage saxophone. He'll swerve that one, and do OK
Would that be enough to make me vote for the Tories in a southern marginal is an utterly different question. My guess is that it won't mean jack shit in a cack sandwich
So the point is if we put aside the prospect of Tory civil war (which I'm not sure the right is geared up for at the moment, and they may be put off making Cameron their casus belli because of a lingering taboo over lese majeste), this move is probably a net positive in the blue wall and a net negative in the red.0 -
And don't forget he won the AV referendum... Oh for those joyous days on PB in 2011 discussing the in's and out's of AV! 😂numbertwelve said:I think Cameron’s election winning can be overplayed but nor should it be dismissed out of hand. In 2010 he did gain a significant number of seats and turn a Labour majority of 60-odd into a parliament where the Tories were just shy of a majority. He won in 2015. Yes the Scottish referendum was closer than predicted but he was still on the winning side. Brexit was his great failure.
1 -
Okaaay..
Spokesman denies that Trump rhetoric echoes that of dictators like Hitler and Mussolini and declares that those who say it does will find "their entire existence will be crushed when President Trump returns to the White House."
https://twitter.com/peterbakernyt/status/17240590380847352196 -
It isn't.eek said:
I wouldn't have said binning HS2 was something you would agree with.Casino_Royale said:I think Sunak is essentially like Chris Patten as the Last Governor in Hong Kong after the 1995 elections.
He knows he's doomed but wants to leave with his head held high as a matter of honour, having done the right thing, and stuff the political consequences.0 -
3
-
Go Nads.
8 -
I knew Victoria from CUCA.SeaShantyIrish2 said:NYT ($) - Here’s a list of the new U.K. cabinet so far:
Foreign secretary: David Cameron (not in previous cabinet, prime minister 2010 to 2016).
Home secretary: James Cleverly (previously foreign secretary).
Health secretary: Victoria Atkins (formerly financial secretary, a sub-cabinet position in the Treasury).
Secretary for environment, food and rural affairs: Steve Barclay (previously health secretary)
Chief secretary to the Treasury: Laura Trott (formerly a pensions minister).
Conservative Party chairman and minister without portfolio: Richard Holden (previously a transport minister).
Departing cabinet ministers: Suella Braverman, home secretary; Thérèse Coffey, environment secretary.
Some ministers below cabinet rank who have said they are resigning: Jeremy Quin, paymaster general; Nick Gibb, schools minister; Neil O’Brien, a health minister; Rachel Maclean, housing minister.0 -
Nick Gibb?? @ydoethur will be devastated.SeaShantyIrish2 said:NYT ($) - Here’s a list of the new U.K. cabinet so far:
Foreign secretary: David Cameron (not in previous cabinet, prime minister 2010 to 2016).
Home secretary: James Cleverly (previously foreign secretary).
Health secretary: Victoria Atkins (formerly financial secretary, a sub-cabinet position in the Treasury).
Secretary for environment, food and rural affairs: Steve Barclay (previously health secretary)
Chief secretary to the Treasury: Laura Trott (formerly a pensions minister).
Conservative Party chairman and minister without portfolio: Richard Holden (previously a transport minister).
Departing cabinet ministers: Suella Braverman, home secretary; Thérèse Coffey, environment secretary.
Some ministers below cabinet rank who have said they are resigning: Jeremy Quin, paymaster general; Nick Gibb, schools minister; Neil O’Brien, a health minister; Rachel Maclean, housing minister.0 -
Interesting that he's appointed Richard Holden as party chairman. MP for N W Durham, which includes Consett. About as red as red wall gets.SeaShantyIrish2 said:NYT ($) - Here’s a list of the new U.K. cabinet so far:
Foreign secretary: David Cameron (not in previous cabinet, prime minister 2010 to 2016).
Home secretary: James Cleverly (previously foreign secretary).
Health secretary: Victoria Atkins (formerly financial secretary, a sub-cabinet position in the Treasury).
Secretary for environment, food and rural affairs: Steve Barclay (previously health secretary)
Chief secretary to the Treasury: Laura Trott (formerly a pensions minister).
Conservative Party chairman and minister without portfolio: Richard Holden (previously a transport minister).
Departing cabinet ministers: Suella Braverman, home secretary; Thérèse Coffey, environment secretary.
Some ministers below cabinet rank who have said they are resigning: Jeremy Quin, paymaster general; Nick Gibb, schools minister; Neil O’Brien, a health minister; Rachel Maclean, housing minister.0 -
We need sanity, lots of it.twistedfirestopper3 said:
Why? I'm not taking the piss, as we all know you're a big fan of the bloke, but what is he going to do? At best, for me, he brings a little bit of sanity to the government. But even you must realise that he's a massively divisive figure. And he's still in the government that has been the worst in my lifetime.TheScreamingEagles said:I am so happy right now.
0 -
The thing about the foreign secretary is that he/she is largely invisible unless they do something spectacularly and egregiously stupid. How do you make people remember Cameron is doing the job and is in the Cabinet when they have forgotten this time next week?TimS said:
I hope you're right. But if the question is would it be enough to make people vote for the Tories in a Southern marginal, it does at least tell us "more so than in a Midlands seat". Like most competency questions, will he do a good job is a proxy for do you like him.Leon said:
Well that's a loada hooey, isn't it?TimS said:The polling on Cameron today is EXTREMELY regionally variable. Reinforces my view this is very bad news for the Lib Dems but overall good or neutral for Labour.
"By region, the appeal looks very 'blue-wall'-y....
London: +7 (!)
Rest of South: +1
Wales: -6
North: -8
Scotland: -10
Midlands: -16"
https://x.com/Beyond_Topline/status/1724081033325191494?s=20
And he's scoring +1 in approval from 2019 Lib Dem voters...
It's a poll of "whether you think David Duke of Brexit will be competent as Foreign Secretary". I mean, the guy was prime minister for seven years, he's quite experienced, I'm not a huge fan, but I imagine he can pull off a ministerial visit to New Delhi without accidentally sodomising Narendra Modi with a vintage saxophone. He'll swerve that one, and do OK
Would that be enough to make me vote for the Tories in a southern marginal is an utterly different question. My guess is that it won't mean jack shit in a cack sandwich
So the point is if we put aside the prospect of Tory civil war (which I'm not sure the right is geared up for at the moment, and they may be put off making Cameron their casus belli because of a lingering taboo over lese majeste), this move is probably a net positive in the blue wall and a net negative in the red.
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Have you never read Dune?Anabobazina said:
Who?Andy_JS said:"Science minister George Freeman resigns
In a letter to the PM, science minister George Freeman says he is standing down "with a heavy heart". Freeman says "the time has come for me to focus on my health, family wellbeing and life beyond the front bench"."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-673704213 -
As I've said before, the Conservatives are like cockroaches - They always survive and come back in the end...biggles said:I see we are are at the stage of the electoral cycle where people write obituaries of the Tory Party like they did Labour in 2019, 2015, and 2010, and the Tories previously in 2005, 2001, and 1997. And before that, the Labour Party in 1992.
In ten years time the Tory Party will be resurgent and Labour will look tired. Outside of very rare circumstances (e.g. the rise of organised Labour and the change to the franchise killing the old Liberals), which aren’t currently on the cards, the cycle is just that: a cycle.0 -
Oh that is really funny.northern_monkey said:Go Nads.
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You need policies. And you dont have any.TheScreamingEagles said:
We need sanity, lots of it.twistedfirestopper3 said:
Why? I'm not taking the piss, as we all know you're a big fan of the bloke, but what is he going to do? At best, for me, he brings a little bit of sanity to the government. But even you must realise that he's a massively divisive figure. And he's still in the government that has been the worst in my lifetime.TheScreamingEagles said:I am so happy right now.
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Presumably Dowden has to lose the title DPM? No one believed Hunt ever deferred to him, but with Cameron in there as well.
And who will be the face of the Gvt in the Lords of not the most senior Minister in the Lords, so… Cameron? I think that just became an important role.0 -
"There is freedom of speech. But, I cannot guarantee freedom after speech."Nigelb said:Okaaay..
Spokesman denies that Trump rhetoric echoes that of dictators like Hitler and Mussolini and declares that those who say it does will find "their entire existence will be crushed when President Trump returns to the White House."
https://twitter.com/peterbakernyt/status/17240590380847352191 -
Glorious. Not really a Clerihew, but very fine nonetheless.Nigelb said:
In truth, sheAnabobazina said:
Is more toothy
Than the Olympic gold pedaler, who would seem a better choice to me
At the Treasury.
I really admire comic verse, because I can't really do it. It strikes me as a much underrated skill, the view being if something's funny it isn't worthy. Always struck me as an odd way of valuing something.1 -
You only need tokenism on something if you don't really believe in it.Alanbrooke said:
Rich coming from the party that hasnt had a BAME leader and thinks women are for making the tea.kinabalu said:
So if we bring back the black & white minstrels it will 'free up' some 'woke space' that we can utilize to (eg) get more women onto the boards of big companies?Cookie said:
I don't think this would have happened at my school 30 years ago, which made almost no show at all of cultural matters.kinabalu said:
It'll take more than a few years of woke to knock over something as strong and deep-rooted as the patriarchy.Cookie said:
An unrelated anecdote on woke (to illustrate that Leon is not the only poster who mentions itJosiasJessop said:
Oddly enough, as you're about the only poster who ever mentions 'woke', I assume that you suffer from 'woke madness' ?Leon said:
But Suella was totemic for Tories who want to see someone - anyone - fighting the Woke madness. Not because she’s great - she’s maladroit and foolish and needs to shape up - but because she seems to be the only one doing that. The only person with actual right wing beliefs who is - was - prepared to tell the guardian and the BBC to get stuffedDavidL said:
The consensus from the various journalists etc being interviewed on R5 and TWAO was that this was a clever or canny move by Sunak. Not something heard, well, ever actually. Almost no dissenting voices.Leon said:
Daily Mail:Gardenwalker said:
Why?Leon said:
Yeah. I’ve gone from thinking “this is amusing” to “this will have mixed results” to “this will be a disaster”Mortimer said:
My local party mates are all appalled.TimS said:It's an interesting gambit, this pivot towards the old school centre-right. The more I think about it the more I think the impact on polling and electoral chances is going to be very mixed by region. I do think there is a problem brewing for the Lib Dems in the home counties here. Especially if Hunt unveils tax cuts for the higher paid this month or in spring. Look at TSE's reaction, and Topping's, and (though I appreciate not from the home counties) BigG's. The disaffected Cameroons have been looking around for some excuse to come home, and here it is.
Whereas for Labour in the North and Midlands this return to the old crew that brought austerity, stagnation and plummy accents to cabinet this must be a gift.
It's interesting to see Sunak doing precisely the opposite of what PB Tories have been advising him in recent days. He's going after the Lib Dems and the centre, and saying yah boo to the Refuk-curious. Let's see what happens to Lib Dem VI in the coming weeks as that may tell us if the blue wall gambit has succeeded.
Much sympathy with Braverman, none with Sunak....
Sunak has just annoyed far more people than he’s pleased
“Gutless Rishi Sunak sacks Suella Braverman and signs the end of the Tory party in government.
She was right about hate marches.
Sacking Suella is an own goal for the Tories.
Keir Starmer must be rejoicing.”
https://x.com/amandajplatell/status/1723991879929286965?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw
Daily Telegraph:
“At the Cenotaph on Saturday, there was huge support for Suella among people from all walks of life.
Rishi Sunak should resign. He is utterly useless.”
https://x.com/allisonpearson/status/1724019215433191523?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw
Sunak has ENRAGED the right. Alienating swathes of voters. Meanwhile, who is really gonna shift their vote TO the Tories because Old Etonian Dave “Brexit loser” Cameron is back as Foreign Secretary, as an unelected Lord?
Really, who? About 3 people on here. That’s it
At the risk of doxing myself as the true Spartacus even the fact that the BBC seems to like it doesn't persuade me that it is a bad idea.
Braverman was a deeply unpleasant menace who has been damaging the government almost from the day she was reappointed. Cleverly may keep similar policies but will very definitely not have the same tone as her. The government will start to sound more like a government and less like a Trump rally.
Cameron is more skilled as a politician than literally anyone in the existing cabinet (admittedly an extremely low bar). I hope he can help create a more coherent voice that has some idea of why it is there.
I’m not surprised the BBC is pleased
And add to that sacking - guaranteeing Tory infighting - the appointment of loser Cameron? You are unusual in your admiration. Polls show he’s deeply unpopular. Remainers hate him, many leavers scoff at him
So will this do anything good for the Tories? My bet is no. I don’t think it will shift the polls significantly, but what it will do is not good for Sunak: it exposes the huge rifts in Toryism right before the election ) : at a local secondary school - which when I last visited 18 months ago was as woke as could be: 75% of the material on the walls of corridors dealt with either sexuality, gender or race (valid concerns, but surely not worthy of 75% of any school's mental effort), it turns out that some opinions are actually quite old-fashioned: when the boys' football team's bus breaks down, they simply requisition the girls' netball team's bus, and the girl's netball team doesn't play; and when the boys' sports hall is out of action, they requisition the girls' sports hall, and girls' PE is cancelled.
I don't know if this is because actually the woke is just for show, or because girls are no longer a concern of woke.
You know the theory about people having a certain inbuilt level of safety? And if you make them safer in some respects, they will compensate by taking more risks? Give them a seatbelt, they will drive 10mph faster; give them a cycle helmet they will jump that red light? I have a nascent theory that people have a certain inbuilt level of woke (yes I hate the word too, but you know what I mean and I will happily use a better one if one can be found). Make them woker in respect a, they will consider themselves woke and thereby not have to behave at all woke in respect b.
Not really thought it through properly but that's what it feels like to me.
Hmmm. There's a particular chestnut that I've never yet used and here's my big chance. It's a View!
Ah that felt good.0 -
You need more than policies - you need a path to and offer of a brighter future. And having killed all money on projects the Tories simply have nothing to offer except to the "I'm alright Jack" group of retired people who simply want more and more sweeties.Alanbrooke said:
You need policies. And you dont have any.TheScreamingEagles said:
We need sanity, lots of it.twistedfirestopper3 said:
Why? I'm not taking the piss, as we all know you're a big fan of the bloke, but what is he going to do? At best, for me, he brings a little bit of sanity to the government. But even you must realise that he's a massively divisive figure. And he's still in the government that has been the worst in my lifetime.TheScreamingEagles said:I am so happy right now.
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