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LAB moves to an even stronger favourite to win overall majority – politicalbetting.com

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  • I am so happy right now.

    Why? I'm not taking the piss, as we all know you're a big fan of the bloke, but what is he going to do? At best, for me, he brings a little bit of sanity to the government. But even you must realise that he's a massively divisive figure. And he's still in the government that has been the worst in my lifetime.
    We need sanity, lots of it.
    And a return to the better old days;


  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,274

    I am so happy right now.

    Why? I'm not taking the piss, as we all know you're a big fan of the bloke, but what is he going to do? At best, for me, he brings a little bit of sanity to the government. But even you must realise that he's a massively divisive figure. And he's still in the government that has been the worst in my lifetime.
    We need sanity, lots of it.
    And a return to the better old days;


    Fun times! :D
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,134

    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Mortimer said:

    TimS said:

    It's an interesting gambit, this pivot towards the old school centre-right. The more I think about it the more I think the impact on polling and electoral chances is going to be very mixed by region. I do think there is a problem brewing for the Lib Dems in the home counties here. Especially if Hunt unveils tax cuts for the higher paid this month or in spring. Look at TSE's reaction, and Topping's, and (though I appreciate not from the home counties) BigG's. The disaffected Cameroons have been looking around for some excuse to come home, and here it is.

    Whereas for Labour in the North and Midlands this return to the old crew that brought austerity, stagnation and plummy accents to cabinet this must be a gift.

    It's interesting to see Sunak doing precisely the opposite of what PB Tories have been advising him in recent days. He's going after the Lib Dems and the centre, and saying yah boo to the Refuk-curious. Let's see what happens to Lib Dem VI in the coming weeks as that may tell us if the blue wall gambit has succeeded.

    My local party mates are all appalled.

    Much sympathy with Braverman, none with Sunak....
    Yeah. I’ve gone from thinking “this is amusing” to “this will have mixed results” to “this will be a disaster”

    Sunak has just annoyed far more people than he’s pleased
    Why?
    Daily Mail:

    “Gutless Rishi Sunak sacks Suella Braverman and signs the end of the Tory party in government.

    She was right about hate marches.
    Sacking Suella is an own goal for the Tories.

    Keir Starmer must be rejoicing.”

    https://x.com/amandajplatell/status/1723991879929286965?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Daily Telegraph:

    “At the Cenotaph on Saturday, there was huge support for Suella among people from all walks of life.
    Rishi Sunak should resign. He is utterly useless.”

    https://x.com/allisonpearson/status/1724019215433191523?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Sunak has ENRAGED the right. Alienating swathes of voters. Meanwhile, who is really gonna shift their vote TO the Tories because Old Etonian Dave “Brexit loser” Cameron is back as Foreign Secretary, as an unelected Lord?

    Really, who? About 3 people on here. That’s it
    The consensus from the various journalists etc being interviewed on R5 and TWAO was that this was a clever or canny move by Sunak. Not something heard, well, ever actually. Almost no dissenting voices.

    At the risk of doxing myself as the true Spartacus even the fact that the BBC seems to like it doesn't persuade me that it is a bad idea.

    Braverman was a deeply unpleasant menace who has been damaging the government almost from the day she was reappointed. Cleverly may keep similar policies but will very definitely not have the same tone as her. The government will start to sound more like a government and less like a Trump rally.

    Cameron is more skilled as a politician than literally anyone in the existing cabinet (admittedly an extremely low bar). I hope he can help create a more coherent voice that has some idea of why it is there.
    But Suella was totemic for Tories who want to see someone - anyone - fighting the Woke madness. Not because she’s great - she’s maladroit and foolish and needs to shape up - but because she seems to be the only one doing that. The only person with actual right wing beliefs who is - was - prepared to tell the guardian and the BBC to get stuffed

    I’m not surprised the BBC is pleased

    And add to that sacking - guaranteeing Tory infighting - the appointment of loser Cameron? You are unusual in your admiration. Polls show he’s deeply unpopular. Remainers hate him, many leavers scoff at him

    So will this do anything good for the Tories? My bet is no. I don’t think it will shift the polls significantly, but what it will do is not good for Sunak: it exposes the huge rifts in Toryism right before the election

    Oddly enough, as you're about the only poster who ever mentions 'woke', I assume that you suffer from 'woke madness' ? :)
    An unrelated anecdote on woke (to illustrate that Leon is not the only poster who mentions it :smile: ) : at a local secondary school - which when I last visited 18 months ago was as woke as could be: 75% of the material on the walls of corridors dealt with either sexuality, gender or race (valid concerns, but surely not worthy of 75% of any school's mental effort), it turns out that some opinions are actually quite old-fashioned: when the boys' football team's bus breaks down, they simply requisition the girls' netball team's bus, and the girl's netball team doesn't play; and when the boys' sports hall is out of action, they requisition the girls' sports hall, and girls' PE is cancelled.
    I don't know if this is because actually the woke is just for show, or because girls are no longer a concern of woke.
    It'll take more than a few years of woke to knock over something as strong and deep-rooted as the patriarchy.
    I don't think this would have happened at my school 30 years ago, which made almost no show at all of cultural matters.

    You know the theory about people having a certain inbuilt level of safety? And if you make them safer in some respects, they will compensate by taking more risks? Give them a seatbelt, they will drive 10mph faster; give them a cycle helmet they will jump that red light? I have a nascent theory that people have a certain inbuilt level of woke (yes I hate the word too, but you know what I mean and I will happily use a better one if one can be found). Make them woker in respect a, they will consider themselves woke and thereby not have to behave at all woke in respect b.

    Not really thought it through properly but that's what it feels like to me.
    So if we bring back the black & white minstrels it will 'free up' some 'woke space' that we can utilize to (eg) get more women onto the boards of big companies?

    Hmmm. There's a particular chestnut that I've never yet used and here's my big chance. It's a View!

    Ah that felt good.
    Gratuitous! Exiled to Conservative Home with Suella for several days.
    I had to do it once. Just the once.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,748
    kinabalu said:

    I don't think this is about shoring up the Blue Wall having written off the Red One or anything like that. I don't think there's any deep strategy at all going on. Sunak's game is to throw rocks in the pond and job done in this regard. Who saw this play coming? Nobody. That's a 'win' for him in itself. He'll be chuffed and I'm impressed. I revise my Nowcast call on Labour overall majority from 115 to 110.

    If things aren't looking any better in 6 months' time there'll be another reshuffle. Nigel Farage to the Foreign Office, and Tommy Robinson to the Home Office.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    James Cleverly
    Is bearded - heavily
    But he wears red socks which he thinks look quite posh
    Which the beard will never be
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    The polling on Cameron today is EXTREMELY regionally variable. Reinforces my view this is very bad news for the Lib Dems but overall good or neutral for Labour.

    "By region, the appeal looks very 'blue-wall'-y....

    London: +7 (!)
    Rest of South: +1

    Wales: -6
    North: -8
    Scotland: -10
    Midlands: -16"

    https://x.com/Beyond_Topline/status/1724081033325191494?s=20

    And he's scoring +1 in approval from 2019 Lib Dem voters...

    Well that's a loada hooey, isn't it?

    It's a poll of "whether you think David Duke of Brexit will be competent as Foreign Secretary". I mean, the guy was prime minister for seven years, he's quite experienced, I'm not a huge fan, but I imagine he can pull off a ministerial visit to New Delhi without accidentally sodomising Narendra Modi with a vintage saxophone. He'll swerve that one, and do OK

    Would that be enough to make me vote for the Tories in a southern marginal is an utterly different question. My guess is that it won't mean jack shit in a cack sandwich
    Dave, Duke of Brexit. Perhaps he is more of a Count.
  • While Cameron’s foreign policy wins are highly debatable one really does stand out:

    He began training the UK training the Ukrainian Armed Forces in 2014.

    And thank goodness he did.


    https://x.com/mrharrycole/status/1724003668184187256?s=61&t=c6bcp0cjChLfQN5Tc8A_6g
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    dr_spyn said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    The polling on Cameron today is EXTREMELY regionally variable. Reinforces my view this is very bad news for the Lib Dems but overall good or neutral for Labour.

    "By region, the appeal looks very 'blue-wall'-y....

    London: +7 (!)
    Rest of South: +1

    Wales: -6
    North: -8
    Scotland: -10
    Midlands: -16"

    https://x.com/Beyond_Topline/status/1724081033325191494?s=20

    And he's scoring +1 in approval from 2019 Lib Dem voters...

    Well that's a loada hooey, isn't it?

    It's a poll of "whether you think David Duke of Brexit will be competent as Foreign Secretary". I mean, the guy was prime minister for seven years, he's quite experienced, I'm not a huge fan, but I imagine he can pull off a ministerial visit to New Delhi without accidentally sodomising Narendra Modi with a vintage saxophone. He'll swerve that one, and do OK

    Would that be enough to make me vote for the Tories in a southern marginal is an utterly different question. My guess is that it won't mean jack shit in a cack sandwich
    Dave, Duke of Brexit. Perhaps he is more of a Count.
    You do get the joke, right?
  • Leon said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    The polling on Cameron today is EXTREMELY regionally variable. Reinforces my view this is very bad news for the Lib Dems but overall good or neutral for Labour.

    "By region, the appeal looks very 'blue-wall'-y....

    London: +7 (!)
    Rest of South: +1

    Wales: -6
    North: -8
    Scotland: -10
    Midlands: -16"

    https://x.com/Beyond_Topline/status/1724081033325191494?s=20

    And he's scoring +1 in approval from 2019 Lib Dem voters...

    Well that's a loada hooey, isn't it?

    It's a poll of "whether you think David Duke of Brexit will be competent as Foreign Secretary". I mean, the guy was prime minister for seven years, he's quite experienced, I'm not a huge fan, but I imagine he can pull off a ministerial visit to New Delhi without accidentally sodomising Narendra Modi with a vintage saxophone. He'll swerve that one, and do OK

    Would that be enough to make me vote for the Tories in a southern marginal is an utterly different question. My guess is that it won't mean jack shit in a cack sandwich
    Dave, Duke of Brexit. Perhaps he is more of a Count.
    You do get the joke, right?
    Vote for the Lizard not the Wizard.
  • Leon said:

    James Cleverly
    Is bearded - heavily
    But he wears red socks which he thinks look quite posh
    Which the beard will never be

    The privately educated don’t make these kind of fashion faux pas.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,404

    Leon said:

    James Cleverly
    Is bearded - heavily
    But he wears red socks which he thinks look quite posh
    Which the beard will never be

    The privately educated don’t make these kind of fashion faux pas.
    Im just imagining Cameron sat opposite Sergei Lavrov
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,067

    Leon said:

    James Cleverly
    Is bearded - heavily
    But he wears red socks which he thinks look quite posh
    Which the beard will never be

    The privately educated don’t make these kind of fashion faux pas.
    You compose sonnets rather than pen clerihews ?
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,792
    Leon said:

    James Cleverly
    Is bearded - heavily
    But he wears red socks which he thinks look quite posh
    Which the beard will never be

    Again, very good. I would mildly point out that for a Clerihew you would expect Line 4 to rhyme with line 3. But I can't come up with anything good that works so can't better that yet.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,275
    Without the Cameron appointment the news would have been all about Braverman and I’m sure we’d have seen a martyrdom speech from her .

    Now no one really gives a fig today and I suspect she might only surface after the SC decision on Wednesday .
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,145
    Barnesian said:

    The next episode in this gripping political drama reveals that Sunak's strategy all along has been to get Starmer to pitch his tent on centre right ground and then dodge to the other side of him.

    It's time for a change from this leaden gloomy centre right stuff.
    "We need a radical reshaping of our infrastructure, our relationship with Europe, dealing with climate change and a fundamental rethink of our financial policies."

    As the episode ends, the big reveal is the appointment of Boris as PM to sell this positive vision to the British public who yearn for a centre left positive vision while poor Keir Starmer is left stranded on his centre right ground.

    Is that something else that was promised in 2014?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,624

    Andy_JS said:

    This is a sad day for all of us Braverman fans.

    Starting with Steve Bannon and Donald Trump.
    What's the official Putinist position on pro-Hamas marches?
  • The Rest Is Politics

    🚨EMERGENCY POD🚨

    Join us LIVE on YouTube at 4.30pm GMT today as Rory and Alastair discuss the unfolding political drama.

    The emergency pod button has been pushed as David Cameron returns to Government and Suella Braverman is sacked.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MukFJRQP2VI

    I'm hoping Political Currency do one but perhaps George is busy?
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,792
    Sir Kier Starmer’s
    Favourite Pyjamas
    Are grey flanellette. But apart from that I’ll go out on a limb
    And say I can’t think of a single interesting thing about him.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,011
    Tory Party Chairman:

    Dick gets Hands' job.
  • Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @YouGov

    Britons think Rishi Sunak was right rather than wrong to sack Suella Braverman as home secretary

    Right to sack her: 57% (44% of Con 2019 voters)
    Wrong to sack her: 20% (39% of Con 2019 voters)

    https://x.com/YouGov/status/1724071651829043487?s=20

    Don't let Leon see that. He is convinced only 3 bumpkins and a scrofulous dog called Bobby wanted Braverman sacked.
    Too late. I’ve seen it

    Did I ever say anything different to you? I strongly support Braverman’s stand on the Wokeness but I say - on this thread - she is “clumsy, naive, foolish, maladroit” and much else

    I can see why you might sack her. But then, she is the only minister with the guts to stand up to the left and say hard but true things. That’s why she still has the support of half the Tories - as we see in this poll

    Sunak has alienated all those Tories - and for what? What does he gain? Does he honestly think millions of grateful people will flock back to the Tories now she’s gone and David Duke of Brexit* has got his feet up in Chevening?

    I predict the polls will not shift significantly at all, but Tory infighting will get worse. So: a net negative. That’s bad politics

    *that’s mine and I demand copyright
    Given they were 99% certain to lose the next election I would suggest that, if they want to drag the party back towards the centre, it would be better (for them rather than the country) to get the infighting happening now and purge the ERG types rather than wait until after the election when they are in Opposition and the Right Wing are far more likely to win the leadership.

    And much of what she says is not true. People don't generally choose to live on the streets. We should not ban protests just because we disagree with the opinions being expressed. It is not the fault of the ECHR if the UK Supreme Court says we are not allowed to send asylum seekers to Africa.

    Braverman was the Bully XL of politics and it was long overdue for her to be defanged.

    I had already said in the last thread this wouldn't change the polls. But that doesn't mean it was not worth doing in its own right.
    She was right to spot the way homeless cities arise, and warn about it, her language was offensively wrong. AFAIK she did not explicitly call for protests to be banned?

    Am I the only person that actually read her Times article about protests? This is what she actually says, she actually says the opposite of "ban them", at least in this article:

    "The right to protest in public is a cornerstone of democracy. That is why peaceful marches are never banned and even controversial and disruptive ones are policed rather than blocked.

    Only in the most exceptional circumstances do the authorities step in. The way the law works is clear: if a chief constable believes that there is a serious risk of disorder which the police will struggle to contain, he or she can ask the home secretary to ban a march. Even then, a static protest can take place."

    She goes on:


    "Right-wing and nationalist protesters who engage in aggression are rightly met with a stern response yet pro-Palestinian mobs displaying almost identical behaviour are largely ignored, even when clearly breaking the law? I have spoken to serving and former police officers who have noted this double standard.

    Football fans are even more vocal about the tough way they are policed as compared to politically-connected minority groups who are favoured by the left. It may be that senior officers are more concerned with how much flak they are likely to get than whether this perceived unfairness alienates the majority. The government has a duty to take a broader view.

    If the march goes ahead this weekend, the public will expect to see an assertive and proactive approach to any displays of hate, breaches of conditions and general disorder."

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/pro-palestine-protest-london-met-police-cbqnxbtv3

    The whole point is a call for even-handed policing. And after what I saw on Saturday, I would say she has been vindicated, the police were far tougher on the 300 footie hoons than on the 30,000 dodgy types in the 300,000 Pro-Pal march; they were admirably calm, they were not even-handed

    The ECHR is outdated junk and we should leave it if it prevents us policing our borders properly

    But guess what, there have been pro-Palestinian marches all over the country including London for the last month and none of them showed a fraction of the violence that was displayed by the Right wing mobs on Saturday.

    You went out on Saturday with an agenda and you fulfilled it. That says far more about you than it does about either side in the protests and it bears little or no relation to reality.

  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,643
    ChatGPT is pretty good.

    Cameron and Sunak, a duo so blind,
    Ineptitude and greed, a toxic behind.
    Too late for redemption, their downfall defined,
    "Your reign was a disaster," voters opined.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,051

    Leon said:

    James Cleverly
    Is bearded - heavily
    But he wears red socks which he thinks look quite posh
    Which the beard will never be

    The privately educated don’t make these kind of fashion faux pas.
    They make much worse ones.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    edited November 2023

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @YouGov

    Britons think Rishi Sunak was right rather than wrong to sack Suella Braverman as home secretary

    Right to sack her: 57% (44% of Con 2019 voters)
    Wrong to sack her: 20% (39% of Con 2019 voters)

    https://x.com/YouGov/status/1724071651829043487?s=20

    Don't let Leon see that. He is convinced only 3 bumpkins and a scrofulous dog called Bobby wanted Braverman sacked.
    Too late. I’ve seen it

    Did I ever say anything different to you? I strongly support Braverman’s stand on the Wokeness but I say - on this thread - she is “clumsy, naive, foolish, maladroit” and much else

    I can see why you might sack her. But then, she is the only minister with the guts to stand up to the left and say hard but true things. That’s why she still has the support of half the Tories - as we see in this poll

    Sunak has alienated all those Tories - and for what? What does he gain? Does he honestly think millions of grateful people will flock back to the Tories now she’s gone and David Duke of Brexit* has got his feet up in Chevening?

    I predict the polls will not shift significantly at all, but Tory infighting will get worse. So: a net negative. That’s bad politics

    *that’s mine and I demand copyright
    Given they were 99% certain to lose the next election I would suggest that, if they want to drag the party back towards the centre, it would be better (for them rather than the country) to get the infighting happening now and purge the ERG types rather than wait until after the election when they are in Opposition and the Right Wing are far more likely to win the leadership.

    And much of what she says is not true. People don't generally choose to live on the streets. We should not ban protests just because we disagree with the opinions being expressed. It is not the fault of the ECHR if the UK Supreme Court says we are not allowed to send asylum seekers to Africa.

    Braverman was the Bully XL of politics and it was long overdue for her to be defanged.

    I had already said in the last thread this wouldn't change the polls. But that doesn't mean it was not worth doing in its own right.
    She was right to spot the way homeless cities arise, and warn about it, her language was offensively wrong. AFAIK she did not explicitly call for protests to be banned?

    Am I the only person that actually read her Times article about protests? This is what she actually says, she actually says the opposite of "ban them", at least in this article:

    "The right to protest in public is a cornerstone of democracy. That is why peaceful marches are never banned and even controversial and disruptive ones are policed rather than blocked.

    Only in the most exceptional circumstances do the authorities step in. The way the law works is clear: if a chief constable believes that there is a serious risk of disorder which the police will struggle to contain, he or she can ask the home secretary to ban a march. Even then, a static protest can take place."

    She goes on:


    "Right-wing and nationalist protesters who engage in aggression are rightly met with a stern response yet pro-Palestinian mobs displaying almost identical behaviour are largely ignored, even when clearly breaking the law? I have spoken to serving and former police officers who have noted this double standard.

    Football fans are even more vocal about the tough way they are policed as compared to politically-connected minority groups who are favoured by the left. It may be that senior officers are more concerned with how much flak they are likely to get than whether this perceived unfairness alienates the majority. The government has a duty to take a broader view.

    If the march goes ahead this weekend, the public will expect to see an assertive and proactive approach to any displays of hate, breaches of conditions and general disorder."

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/pro-palestine-protest-london-met-police-cbqnxbtv3

    The whole point is a call for even-handed policing. And after what I saw on Saturday, I would say she has been vindicated, the police were far tougher on the 300 footie hoons than on the 30,000 dodgy types in the 300,000 Pro-Pal march; they were admirably calm, they were not even-handed

    The ECHR is outdated junk and we should leave it if it prevents us policing our borders properly

    But guess what, there have been pro-Palestinian marches all over the country including London for the last month and none of them showed a fraction of the violence that was displayed by the Right wing mobs on Saturday.

    You went out on Saturday with an agenda and you fulfilled it. That says far more about you than it does about either side in the protests and it bears little or no relation to reality.

    Alternatively, you chould show a tiny shred of humility and admit you got that bit wrong about Braverman? Rather than ad hominem-ing me (ineptly)?

    Up to you
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,792
    Jonathan said:

    ChatGPT is pretty good.

    Cameron and Sunak, a duo so blind,
    Ineptitude and greed, a toxic behind.
    Too late for redemption, their downfall defined,
    "Your reign was a disaster," voters opined.

    Clever, and impressive, yet somehow feels AI-ish. Does ChatGPT know what a Clerihew is, and can it do one? I'll be impressed if it can, because an AI doing humour is very transTuring.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    Cookie said:

    Sir Kier Starmer’s
    Favourite Pyjamas
    Are grey flanellette. But apart from that I’ll go out on a limb
    And say I can’t think of a single interesting thing about him.

    Nice!

    I'd just put a full stop in that last sentence. Makes it funnier maybe

    "And say I can't think of a single interesting thing. About him."
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,067
    rcs1000 said:

    NYT ($) - Here’s a list of the new U.K. cabinet so far:

    Foreign secretary: David Cameron (not in previous cabinet, prime minister 2010 to 2016).

    Home secretary: James Cleverly (previously foreign secretary).

    Health secretary: Victoria Atkins (formerly financial secretary, a sub-cabinet position in the Treasury).

    Secretary for environment, food and rural affairs: Steve Barclay (previously health secretary)

    Chief secretary to the Treasury: Laura Trott (formerly a pensions minister).

    Conservative Party chairman and minister without portfolio: Richard Holden (previously a transport minister).

    Departing cabinet ministers: Suella Braverman, home secretary; Thérèse Coffey, environment secretary.

    Some ministers below cabinet rank who have said they are resigning: Jeremy Quin, paymaster general; Nick Gibb, schools minister; Neil O’Brien, a health minister; Rachel Maclean, housing minister.

    I knew Victoria from CUCA.
    Victoria from CUCA
    Is not quite a looker
    Like Laura, but since the Health Department doesn’t need a book cooker,
    They took her.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,051

    Good afternoon

    With Cameron's appointment to cabinet alongside Hunt, Cleverly and Sunak the WF and Good Friday Agreement are safe as none of them will sanction leaving the ECHR, and indeed they are more likely to draw us closer to the EU

    Indeed Mark Rutter has apparently congratulated Cameron on his appointment, and maybe and hopefully, this moment will see the right pass their peak of influence much like Corbynites in Labour

    Farage must be gutted he’s out of the country. There’s a whole narrative to be launched here about “the people” wanting XYZ and “the establishment” closing ranks to prevent it. He could even extend that to Corbynite stuff.

    Of course, he may yet launch that agenda via prime time on ITV television.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,572
    So... apparently two separate Russian media organisations released a statement saying the Russians in Kherson were going to take up more favourable positions further east of the Dnipro. These statements were rapidly taken down.

    This follows reports over the last few weeks that Ukraine has gained territory on the east bank.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-67402324
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,248
    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Mortimer said:

    TimS said:

    It's an interesting gambit, this pivot towards the old school centre-right. The more I think about it the more I think the impact on polling and electoral chances is going to be very mixed by region. I do think there is a problem brewing for the Lib Dems in the home counties here. Especially if Hunt unveils tax cuts for the higher paid this month or in spring. Look at TSE's reaction, and Topping's, and (though I appreciate not from the home counties) BigG's. The disaffected Cameroons have been looking around for some excuse to come home, and here it is.

    Whereas for Labour in the North and Midlands this return to the old crew that brought austerity, stagnation and plummy accents to cabinet this must be a gift.

    It's interesting to see Sunak doing precisely the opposite of what PB Tories have been advising him in recent days. He's going after the Lib Dems and the centre, and saying yah boo to the Refuk-curious. Let's see what happens to Lib Dem VI in the coming weeks as that may tell us if the blue wall gambit has succeeded.

    My local party mates are all appalled.

    Much sympathy with Braverman, none with Sunak....
    Yeah. I’ve gone from thinking “this is amusing” to “this will have mixed results” to “this will be a disaster”

    Sunak has just annoyed far more people than he’s pleased
    Why?
    Daily Mail:

    “Gutless Rishi Sunak sacks Suella Braverman and signs the end of the Tory party in government.

    She was right about hate marches.
    Sacking Suella is an own goal for the Tories.

    Keir Starmer must be rejoicing.”

    https://x.com/amandajplatell/status/1723991879929286965?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Daily Telegraph:

    “At the Cenotaph on Saturday, there was huge support for Suella among people from all walks of life.
    Rishi Sunak should resign. He is utterly useless.”

    https://x.com/allisonpearson/status/1724019215433191523?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Sunak has ENRAGED the right. Alienating swathes of voters. Meanwhile, who is really gonna shift their vote TO the Tories because Old Etonian Dave “Brexit loser” Cameron is back as Foreign Secretary, as an unelected Lord?

    Really, who? About 3 people on here. That’s it
    The consensus from the various journalists etc being interviewed on R5 and TWAO was that this was a clever or canny move by Sunak. Not something heard, well, ever actually. Almost no dissenting voices.

    At the risk of doxing myself as the true Spartacus even the fact that the BBC seems to like it doesn't persuade me that it is a bad idea.

    Braverman was a deeply unpleasant menace who has been damaging the government almost from the day she was reappointed. Cleverly may keep similar policies but will very definitely not have the same tone as her. The government will start to sound more like a government and less like a Trump rally.

    Cameron is more skilled as a politician than literally anyone in the existing cabinet (admittedly an extremely low bar). I hope he can help create a more coherent voice that has some idea of why it is there.
    But Suella was totemic for Tories who want to see someone - anyone - fighting the Woke madness. Not because she’s great - she’s maladroit and foolish and needs to shape up - but because she seems to be the only one doing that. The only person with actual right wing beliefs who is - was - prepared to tell the guardian and the BBC to get stuffed

    I’m not surprised the BBC is pleased

    And add to that sacking - guaranteeing Tory infighting - the appointment of loser Cameron? You are unusual in your admiration. Polls show he’s deeply unpopular. Remainers hate him, many leavers scoff at him

    So will this do anything good for the Tories? My bet is no. I don’t think it will shift the polls significantly, but what it will do is not good for Sunak: it exposes the huge rifts in Toryism right before the election

    Oddly enough, as you're about the only poster who ever mentions 'woke', I assume that you suffer from 'woke madness' ? :)
    An unrelated anecdote on woke (to illustrate that Leon is not the only poster who mentions it :smile: ) : at a local secondary school - which when I last visited 18 months ago was as woke as could be: 75% of the material on the walls of corridors dealt with either sexuality, gender or race (valid concerns, but surely not worthy of 75% of any school's mental effort), it turns out that some opinions are actually quite old-fashioned: when the boys' football team's bus breaks down, they simply requisition the girls' netball team's bus, and the girl's netball team doesn't play; and when the boys' sports hall is out of action, they requisition the girls' sports hall, and girls' PE is cancelled.
    I don't know if this is because actually the woke is just for show, or because girls are no longer a concern of woke.
    It'll take more than a few years of woke to knock over something as strong and deep-rooted as the patriarchy.
    I don't think this would have happened at my school 30 years ago, which made almost no show at all of cultural matters.

    You know the theory about people having a certain inbuilt level of safety? And if you make them safer in some respects, they will compensate by taking more risks? Give them a seatbelt, they will drive 10mph faster; give them a cycle helmet they will jump that red light? I have a nascent theory that people have a certain inbuilt level of woke (yes I hate the word too, but you know what I mean and I will happily use a better one if one can be found). Make them woker in respect a, they will consider themselves woke and thereby not have to behave at all woke in respect b.

    Not really thought it through properly but that's what it feels like to me.
    So if we bring back the black & white minstrels it will 'free up' some 'woke space' that we can utilize to (eg) get more women onto the boards of big companies?

    Hmmm. There's a particular chestnut that I've never yet used and here's my big chance. It's a View!

    Ah that felt good.
    Well yes, I recognise the absurdity of that. That’s the analog of the ‘put a sharp spike in the steering wheel and people will drive REALLY carefully’ argument.
    There is certainly some evidence that organisations, such as the Police, think that 99% of staff having done a course with a multiple choice test at the end, once a year, inoculates the organisation against racism, sexism etc.

    Meanwhile, Chief Superintendent Savage (OBE) is enthusiastically arresting black people for ordering their coffee… black.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,248
    Nigelb said:

    Okaaay..

    Spokesman denies that Trump rhetoric echoes that of dictators like Hitler and Mussolini and declares that those who say it does will find "their entire existence will be crushed when President Trump returns to the White House."
    https://twitter.com/peterbakernyt/status/1724059038084735219

    Won’t this be… The Third Trump term?
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,643
    edited November 2023
    Cookie said:

    Jonathan said:

    ChatGPT is pretty good.

    Cameron and Sunak, a duo so blind,
    Ineptitude and greed, a toxic behind.
    Too late for redemption, their downfall defined,
    "Your reign was a disaster," voters opined.

    Clever, and impressive, yet somehow feels AI-ish. Does ChatGPT know what a Clerihew is, and can it do one? I'll be impressed if it can, because an AI doing humour is very transTuring.
    Computer says...

    Rishi Sunak, with spreadsheets in hand,
    Cameron by his side, a misguided stand.
    Economic plans left the nation unmanned,
    Voters sighed, "Your policies are just sand."

    and

    Cameron and Sunak, a pair with ambition,
    Economic decisions causing derision.
    Leadership lacking, a failed coalition,
    Voters exclaimed, "Enough with your mission!"
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,486
    Leon said:

    YAY

    Work is sending me to Colombia in March. Never been. Nice

    Leon of PB
    Is very "travel-y"
    Now he's off to Colombia
    It won't make him humbler

    Leon will be writing in
    ‘Bout the wildest slums of Medellin
    Following the footsteps of Escobar
    Whilst never leaving the hotel bar.
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860
    Leon said:

    YAY

    Work is sending me to Colombia in March. Never been. Nice

    Leon of PB
    Is very "travel-y"
    Now he's off to Colombia
    It won't make him humbler

    Marching powder Leon
    Will earn a fat fee on
    Dropping a clanger
    Pronouncing 'Bucaramanga'
  • VerulamiusVerulamius Posts: 1,543
    Leon said:

    YAY

    Work is sending me to Colombia in March. Never been. Nice

    Leon of PB
    Is very "travel-y"
    Now he's off to Colombia
    It won't make him humbler

    British?
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,660

    While Cameron’s foreign policy wins are highly debatable one really does stand out:

    He began training the UK training the Ukrainian Armed Forces in 2014.

    And thank goodness he did.


    https://x.com/mrharrycole/status/1724003668184187256?s=61&t=c6bcp0cjChLfQN5Tc8A_6g

    Well yes if he hadn't Russia might have invaded Ukraine.

    Hurrah for Mr Pig f****r
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,706
    Could Dave stand as an MP at the GE and give up his Peerage if he wins?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,812

    So... apparently two separate Russian media organisations released a statement saying the Russians in Kherson were going to take up more favourable positions further east of the Dnipro. These statements were rapidly taken down.

    This follows reports over the last few weeks that Ukraine has gained territory on the east bank.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-67402324

    The Ukrainians have been ferrying over light armoured vehicles for the last week to 10 days and making some progress against very light opposition. It appears that the Russian forces that were there have been deployed elsewhere, specifically Avdiivka. Whether this is a genuine advance by Ukraine or a means of taking pressure off forces elsewhere remains to be seen.
  • MikeL said:

    Could Dave stand as an MP at the GE and give up his Peerage if he wins?

    Yes but he won’t.
  • Andy_JS said:

    "Science minister George Freeman resigns

    In a letter to the PM, science minister George Freeman says he is standing down "with a heavy heart". Freeman says "the time has come for me to focus on my health, family wellbeing and life beyond the front bench"."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-67370421

    Freeman is a free man.
    I may be a wage slave on Monday,
    But I am a Freeman on Sunday...
    ...and Tuesday.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    Cookie said:

    Jonathan said:

    ChatGPT is pretty good.

    Cameron and Sunak, a duo so blind,
    Ineptitude and greed, a toxic behind.
    Too late for redemption, their downfall defined,
    "Your reign was a disaster," voters opined.

    Clever, and impressive, yet somehow feels AI-ish. Does ChatGPT know what a Clerihew is, and can it do one? I'll be impressed if it can, because an AI doing humour is very transTuring.
    i doubt ChatGPT can do clerihews. Its poetry is quite poor and repetitive - childlike, even - God knows what it has been trained on

    There is another model, Claude (of AnthropicAI), which occasionally produces incredible verse. A year ago it was asked to write a poem about itself - a Transformer Neural Network - in the style of Edgar Alan Poe's "The Raven". The first verse was good, then the guy asked for more. The reply:



    Ah, once more - once more a model, trained on Poe's romantic corpus
    Reeled its vintage verse divining - dark prosaic forms entwining.
    "Mortal", said the sprite, "be wary, shallow learning is unwary;
    Heed the perils of reliance, on machin'ry's mere compliance:
    Neural nets in code entangled, judgment warped by man made mangling,
    Mimic not true understanding - do not learn as you are learning."
    Prophet, bird or fiend, it mattered not; the words it spoke were potent.
    Quoth the Net: "I err, unknowing!"


    Which, I submit, is fucking brilliant, and indistinguishable from the work of a rather fine professional poet
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,348

    So... apparently two separate Russian media organisations released a statement saying the Russians in Kherson were going to take up more favourable positions further east of the Dnipro. These statements were rapidly taken down.

    This follows reports over the last few weeks that Ukraine has gained territory on the east bank.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-67402324

    It's not a retreat. It's an advance in a rearward direction.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,572

    While Cameron’s foreign policy wins are highly debatable one really does stand out:

    He began training the UK training the Ukrainian Armed Forces in 2014.

    And thank goodness he did.


    https://x.com/mrharrycole/status/1724003668184187256?s=61&t=c6bcp0cjChLfQN5Tc8A_6g

    Well yes if he hadn't Russia might have invaded Ukraine.

    Hurrah for Mr Pig f****r
    Well, if your anti-Semitic hero had got into Number Ten, he would have been very happy with Russia taking over Ukraine. In the name of 'peace', obviously...
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,355
    MikeL said:

    Could Dave stand as an MP at the GE and give up his Peerage if he wins?

    I think he has to give up the peerage to be eligible as a candidate.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,190
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @YouGov

    Britons think Rishi Sunak was right rather than wrong to sack Suella Braverman as home secretary

    Right to sack her: 57% (44% of Con 2019 voters)
    Wrong to sack her: 20% (39% of Con 2019 voters)

    https://x.com/YouGov/status/1724071651829043487?s=20

    Don't let Leon see that. He is convinced only 3 bumpkins and a scrofulous dog called Bobby wanted Braverman sacked.
    Too late. I’ve seen it

    Did I ever say anything different to you? I strongly support Braverman’s stand on the Wokeness but I say - on this thread - she is “clumsy, naive, foolish, maladroit” and much else

    I can see why you might sack her. But then, she is the only minister with the guts to stand up to the left and say hard but true things. That’s why she still has the support of half the Tories - as we see in this poll

    Sunak has alienated all those Tories - and for what? What does he gain? Does he honestly think millions of grateful people will flock back to the Tories now she’s gone and David Duke of Brexit* has got his feet up in Chevening?

    I predict the polls will not shift significantly at all, but Tory infighting will get worse. So: a net negative. That’s bad politics

    *that’s mine and I demand copyright
    Given they were 99% certain to lose the next election I would suggest that, if they want to drag the party back towards the centre, it would be better (for them rather than the country) to get the infighting happening now and purge the ERG types rather than wait until after the election when they are in Opposition and the Right Wing are far more likely to win the leadership.

    And much of what she says is not true. People don't generally choose to live on the streets. We should not ban protests just because we disagree with the opinions being expressed. It is not the fault of the ECHR if the UK Supreme Court says we are not allowed to send asylum seekers to Africa.

    Braverman was the Bully XL of politics and it was long overdue for her to be defanged.

    I had already said in the last thread this wouldn't change the polls. But that doesn't mean it was not worth doing in its own right.
    She was right to spot the way homeless cities arise, and warn about it, her language was offensively wrong. AFAIK she did not explicitly call for protests to be banned?

    Am I the only person that actually read her Times article about protests? This is what she actually says, she actually says the opposite of "ban them", at least in this article:

    "The right to protest in public is a cornerstone of democracy. That is why peaceful marches are never banned and even controversial and disruptive ones are policed rather than blocked.

    Only in the most exceptional circumstances do the authorities step in. The way the law works is clear: if a chief constable believes that there is a serious risk of disorder which the police will struggle to contain, he or she can ask the home secretary to ban a march. Even then, a static protest can take place."

    She goes on:


    "Right-wing and nationalist protesters who engage in aggression are rightly met with a stern response yet pro-Palestinian mobs displaying almost identical behaviour are largely ignored, even when clearly breaking the law? I have spoken to serving and former police officers who have noted this double standard.

    Football fans are even more vocal about the tough way they are policed as compared to politically-connected minority groups who are favoured by the left. It may be that senior officers are more concerned with how much flak they are likely to get than whether this perceived unfairness alienates the majority. The government has a duty to take a broader view.

    If the march goes ahead this weekend, the public will expect to see an assertive and proactive approach to any displays of hate, breaches of conditions and general disorder."

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/pro-palestine-protest-london-met-police-cbqnxbtv3

    The whole point is a call for even-handed policing. And after what I saw on Saturday, I would say she has been vindicated, the police were far tougher on the 300 footie hoons than on the 30,000 dodgy types in the 300,000 Pro-Pal march; they were admirably calm, they were not even-handed

    The ECHR is outdated junk and we should leave it if it prevents us policing our borders properly

    But guess what, there have been pro-Palestinian marches all over the country including London for the last month and none of them showed a fraction of the violence that was displayed by the Right wing mobs on Saturday.

    You went out on Saturday with an agenda and you fulfilled it. That says far more about you than it does about either side in the protests and it bears little or no relation to reality.

    Alternatively, you chould show a tiny shred of humility and admit you got that bit wrong about Braverman? Rather than ad hominem-ing me (ineptly)?

    Up to you
    Maybe policing a crowd of 300000 people might involve different tactics to policing a crowd of 300 troublemakers?
  • biggles said:

    Good afternoon

    With Cameron's appointment to cabinet alongside Hunt, Cleverly and Sunak the WF and Good Friday Agreement are safe as none of them will sanction leaving the ECHR, and indeed they are more likely to draw us closer to the EU

    Indeed Mark Rutter has apparently congratulated Cameron on his appointment, and maybe and hopefully, this moment will see the right pass their peak of influence much like Corbynites in Labour

    Farage must be gutted he’s out of the country. There’s a whole narrative to be launched here about “the people” wanting XYZ and “the establishment” closing ranks to prevent it. He could even extend that to Corbynite stuff.

    Of course, he may yet launch that agenda via prime time on ITV television.
    Lots of politicians have tried to reach the people via reality shows- have any of them come out with an enhanced reputation?
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,706

    MikeL said:

    Could Dave stand as an MP at the GE and give up his Peerage if he wins?

    Yes but he won’t.
    I know but wouldn't it be amazing if he was back in position for the top job.

    Of course a Con win is very unlikely so probably the earliest he could be PM would be 2029.

    But it's worth being in the Commons - you never know what might happen.

    If George Osborne had remained an MP, it must be highly likely he would have become PM at some point.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    YAY

    Work is sending me to Colombia in March. Never been. Nice

    Leon of PB
    Is very "travel-y"
    Now he's off to Colombia
    It won't make him humbler

    Leon will be writing in
    ‘Bout the wildest slums of Medellin
    Following the footsteps of Escobar
    Whilst never leaving the hotel bar.
    Nice, tho "writing in 'bout" is a little clumsy, if one is feeling nit picky
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    Leon, of PB
    Was feeling nit pickey
    So he picked on Boulay
    In a way rather outre
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,355
    DavidL said:

    So... apparently two separate Russian media organisations released a statement saying the Russians in Kherson were going to take up more favourable positions further east of the Dnipro. These statements were rapidly taken down.

    This follows reports over the last few weeks that Ukraine has gained territory on the east bank.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-67402324

    The Ukrainians have been ferrying over light armoured vehicles for the last week to 10 days and making some progress against very light opposition. It appears that the Russian forces that were there have been deployed elsewhere, specifically Avdiivka. Whether this is a genuine advance by Ukraine or a means of taking pressure off forces elsewhere remains to be seen.
    I think the main objective is to prevent the Russians from using artillery on Kherson city. Though apparently there was a failed SOF cross-Dnipro attempt to take back the nuclear plant a few weeks ago.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,248
    edited November 2023

    While Cameron’s foreign policy wins are highly debatable one really does stand out:

    He began training the UK training the Ukrainian Armed Forces in 2014.

    And thank goodness he did.


    https://x.com/mrharrycole/status/1724003668184187256?s=61&t=c6bcp0cjChLfQN5Tc8A_6g

    Well yes if he hadn't Russia might have invaded Ukraine.

    Hurrah for Mr Pig f****r
    Interesting that you chose to repeat some fake news that was proven to be bullshit.

    On Ukraine - without the evident transformation of the Ukrainian armed forces between the previous war with Russia, Ukraine would have collapsed in short order. The US/U.K. training seems to have played a big part.

    Even the military experts were startled by the transformation - Ukraine had become adaptive and effective.
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,998
    Speaking of entertainment and politics, the National Football League honored Congressional Medal of Honor Winners this weekend:
    "ARLINGTON, Texas (FOX 9) - Look for many tributes to America’s veterans during the NFL games this weekend. But immediately following the Vikings vs. Saints game on FOX 9, the NFL and FOX Sports will air a special halftime salute to Medal of Honor recipients during the Cowboys game against the Giants at AT&T Stadium in Arlington, Texas."

    At the Seahawks/Commanders game, the coaches were wearing Army brown sweat shirts. (There may have been other tributes, but I didn't watch the entire game, so I didn't see them, if there were.)

    Politicians may have learned something, too; on Saturday, this opened: https://americanindian.si.edu/visit/washington/nnavm

    Perhaps Hollywood can learn something from those events.



  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,486
    Leon said:

    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    YAY

    Work is sending me to Colombia in March. Never been. Nice

    Leon of PB
    Is very "travel-y"
    Now he's off to Colombia
    It won't make him humbler

    Leon will be writing in
    ‘Bout the wildest slums of Medellin
    Following the footsteps of Escobar
    Whilst never leaving the hotel bar.
    Nice, tho "writing in 'bout" is a little clumsy, if one is feeling nit picky
    The “A” gave it an extra syllable I didn’t like but it’s a bit forced I agree.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,812
    MikeL said:

    MikeL said:

    Could Dave stand as an MP at the GE and give up his Peerage if he wins?

    Yes but he won’t.
    I know but wouldn't it be amazing if he was back in position for the top job.

    Of course a Con win is very unlikely so probably the earliest he could be PM would be 2029.

    But it's worth being in the Commons - you never know what might happen.

    If George Osborne had remained an MP, it must be highly likely he would have become PM at some point.
    Well most of them got a turn in fairness.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,792
    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Jonathan said:

    ChatGPT is pretty good.

    Cameron and Sunak, a duo so blind,
    Ineptitude and greed, a toxic behind.
    Too late for redemption, their downfall defined,
    "Your reign was a disaster," voters opined.

    Clever, and impressive, yet somehow feels AI-ish. Does ChatGPT know what a Clerihew is, and can it do one? I'll be impressed if it can, because an AI doing humour is very transTuring.
    i doubt ChatGPT can do clerihews. Its poetry is quite poor and repetitive - childlike, even - God knows what it has been trained on

    There is another model, Claude (of AnthropicAI), which occasionally produces incredible verse. A year ago it was asked to write a poem about itself - a Transformer Neural Network - in the style of Edgar Alan Poe's "The Raven". The first verse was good, then the guy asked for more. The reply:



    Ah, once more - once more a model, trained on Poe's romantic corpus
    Reeled its vintage verse divining - dark prosaic forms entwining.
    "Mortal", said the sprite, "be wary, shallow learning is unwary;
    Heed the perils of reliance, on machin'ry's mere compliance:
    Neural nets in code entangled, judgment warped by man made mangling,
    Mimic not true understanding - do not learn as you are learning."
    Prophet, bird or fiend, it mattered not; the words it spoke were potent.
    Quoth the Net: "I err, unknowing!"


    Which, I submit, is fucking brilliant, and indistinguishable from the work of a rather fine professional poet
    Agreed. Very impressive.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    @kiranstacey

    NEW: In news that will disappoint Michael Heseltine, @George_Osborne says he is not following David Cameron back into govt. Says on his Political Currency podcast: "I certainly haven't had the call and I'm not waiting by my phone."
  • While Cameron’s foreign policy wins are highly debatable one really does stand out:

    He began training the UK training the Ukrainian Armed Forces in 2014.

    And thank goodness he did.


    https://x.com/mrharrycole/status/1724003668184187256?s=61&t=c6bcp0cjChLfQN5Tc8A_6g

    Well yes if he hadn't Russia might have invaded Ukraine.

    Hurrah for Mr Pig f****r
    Well, if your anti-Semitic hero had got into Number Ten, he would have been very happy with Russia taking over Ukraine. In the name of 'peace', obviously...
    Corbyn wouldn't have been 'very happy with Russia taking over Ukraine'. He'd have been very angry about you suggesting it. More angry, indeed, than about Russia's invasion. Corbyn would probably have staged a solemn event of solidarity to demonstrate just how important Ukraine's suffering was to him.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,812

    DavidL said:

    So... apparently two separate Russian media organisations released a statement saying the Russians in Kherson were going to take up more favourable positions further east of the Dnipro. These statements were rapidly taken down.

    This follows reports over the last few weeks that Ukraine has gained territory on the east bank.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-67402324

    The Ukrainians have been ferrying over light armoured vehicles for the last week to 10 days and making some progress against very light opposition. It appears that the Russian forces that were there have been deployed elsewhere, specifically Avdiivka. Whether this is a genuine advance by Ukraine or a means of taking pressure off forces elsewhere remains to be seen.
    I think the main objective is to prevent the Russians from using artillery on Kherson city. Though apparently there was a failed SOF cross-Dnipro attempt to take back the nuclear plant a few weeks ago.
    I think that they are just looking for somewhere they can move. The Russian defence lines to the east ground them to a halt. If there was any chance of coming at them from behind....
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,134
    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    YAY

    Work is sending me to Colombia in March. Never been. Nice

    Leon of PB
    Is very "travel-y"
    Now he's off to Colombia
    It won't make him humbler

    Leon will be writing in
    ‘Bout the wildest slums of Medellin
    Following the footsteps of Escobar
    Whilst never leaving the hotel bar.
    Nice, tho "writing in 'bout" is a little clumsy, if one is feeling nit picky
    The “A” gave it an extra syllable I didn’t like but it’s a bit forced I agree.
    They're meant to be a bit forced.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,190
    Leon said:

    Leon, of PB
    Was feeling nit pickey
    So he picked on Boulay
    In a way rather outre

    Whether AI
    Or whether it's you
    Absolute shite
    A big pile of poo
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    Hands loses grip on party.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    @NatashaC

    Lee Rowley becomes housing minister... the cursed chalice job. And for him, the renters Reform Bill tomorrow.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,561

    biggles said:

    Good afternoon

    With Cameron's appointment to cabinet alongside Hunt, Cleverly and Sunak the WF and Good Friday Agreement are safe as none of them will sanction leaving the ECHR, and indeed they are more likely to draw us closer to the EU

    Indeed Mark Rutter has apparently congratulated Cameron on his appointment, and maybe and hopefully, this moment will see the right pass their peak of influence much like Corbynites in Labour

    Farage must be gutted he’s out of the country. There’s a whole narrative to be launched here about “the people” wanting XYZ and “the establishment” closing ranks to prevent it. He could even extend that to Corbynite stuff.

    Of course, he may yet launch that agenda via prime time on ITV television.
    Lots of politicians have tried to reach the people via reality shows- have any of them come out with an enhanced reputation?
    Hancock, to some extent.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,812
    edited November 2023
    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Jonathan said:

    ChatGPT is pretty good.

    Cameron and Sunak, a duo so blind,
    Ineptitude and greed, a toxic behind.
    Too late for redemption, their downfall defined,
    "Your reign was a disaster," voters opined.

    Clever, and impressive, yet somehow feels AI-ish. Does ChatGPT know what a Clerihew is, and can it do one? I'll be impressed if it can, because an AI doing humour is very transTuring.
    i doubt ChatGPT can do clerihews. Its poetry is quite poor and repetitive - childlike, even - God knows what it has been trained on

    There is another model, Claude (of AnthropicAI), which occasionally produces incredible verse. A year ago it was asked to write a poem about itself - a Transformer Neural Network - in the style of Edgar Alan Poe's "The Raven". The first verse was good, then the guy asked for more. The reply:



    Ah, once more - once more a model, trained on Poe's romantic corpus
    Reeled its vintage verse divining - dark prosaic forms entwining.
    "Mortal", said the sprite, "be wary, shallow learning is unwary;
    Heed the perils of reliance, on machin'ry's mere compliance:
    Neural nets in code entangled, judgment warped by man made mangling,
    Mimic not true understanding - do not learn as you are learning."
    Prophet, bird or fiend, it mattered not; the words it spoke were potent.
    Quoth the Net: "I err, unknowing!"


    Which, I submit, is fucking brilliant, and indistinguishable from the work of a rather fine professional poet
    Agreed. Very impressive.
    On Sunday we had talks about the use of AI in the criminal justice system. The conclusion seemed to be that it wasn't going to directly take our jobs but that we might well lose our jobs to people better at using AI than we are! Not sure that was a big step forward for me.
  • MikeL said:

    Could Dave stand as an MP at the GE and give up his Peerage if he wins?

    Yes but he won’t.
    No. A peerage is for life.

    Being a peer is not a bar to standing as an MP providing that the person in question resigns from the Lords before being elected but it is before, not after the votes are counted.

    (I'm not 100% sure on the precise timeline here. I don't know whether they'd need to resign in order to be nominated, which will probably be defined under one of the RPAs, but they do have to leave the Lords before they can be elected. It probably doesn't matter much for practical purposes.)
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,355
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    So... apparently two separate Russian media organisations released a statement saying the Russians in Kherson were going to take up more favourable positions further east of the Dnipro. These statements were rapidly taken down.

    This follows reports over the last few weeks that Ukraine has gained territory on the east bank.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-67402324

    The Ukrainians have been ferrying over light armoured vehicles for the last week to 10 days and making some progress against very light opposition. It appears that the Russian forces that were there have been deployed elsewhere, specifically Avdiivka. Whether this is a genuine advance by Ukraine or a means of taking pressure off forces elsewhere remains to be seen.
    I think the main objective is to prevent the Russians from using artillery on Kherson city. Though apparently there was a failed SOF cross-Dnipro attempt to take back the nuclear plant a few weeks ago.
    I think that they are just looking for somewhere they can move. The Russian defence lines to the east ground them to a halt. If there was any chance of coming at them from behind....
    It's never going to be a big push across the Dnipro, because it would be too hard to keep the advance supplied.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    edited November 2023
    kinabalu said:

    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    YAY

    Work is sending me to Colombia in March. Never been. Nice

    Leon of PB
    Is very "travel-y"
    Now he's off to Colombia
    It won't make him humbler

    Leon will be writing in
    ‘Bout the wildest slums of Medellin
    Following the footsteps of Escobar
    Whilst never leaving the hotel bar.
    Nice, tho "writing in 'bout" is a little clumsy, if one is feeling nit picky
    The “A” gave it an extra syllable I didn’t like but it’s a bit forced I agree.
    They're meant to be a bit forced.
    Jokes by "kinabalu"
    Are rare - like white dog poo
    But if you want a moral lesson
    Then he gets a wiggle on


    Needs a better final line
  • Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @YouGov

    Britons think Rishi Sunak was right rather than wrong to sack Suella Braverman as home secretary

    Right to sack her: 57% (44% of Con 2019 voters)
    Wrong to sack her: 20% (39% of Con 2019 voters)

    https://x.com/YouGov/status/1724071651829043487?s=20

    Don't let Leon see that. He is convinced only 3 bumpkins and a scrofulous dog called Bobby wanted Braverman sacked.
    Too late. I’ve seen it

    Did I ever say anything different to you? I strongly support Braverman’s stand on the Wokeness but I say - on this thread - she is “clumsy, naive, foolish, maladroit” and much else

    I can see why you might sack her. But then, she is the only minister with the guts to stand up to the left and say hard but true things. That’s why she still has the support of half the Tories - as we see in this poll

    Sunak has alienated all those Tories - and for what? What does he gain? Does he honestly think millions of grateful people will flock back to the Tories now she’s gone and David Duke of Brexit* has got his feet up in Chevening?

    I predict the polls will not shift significantly at all, but Tory infighting will get worse. So: a net negative. That’s bad politics

    *that’s mine and I demand copyright
    Given they were 99% certain to lose the next election I would suggest that, if they want to drag the party back towards the centre, it would be better (for them rather than the country) to get the infighting happening now and purge the ERG types rather than wait until after the election when they are in Opposition and the Right Wing are far more likely to win the leadership.

    And much of what she says is not true. People don't generally choose to live on the streets. We should not ban protests just because we disagree with the opinions being expressed. It is not the fault of the ECHR if the UK Supreme Court says we are not allowed to send asylum seekers to Africa.

    Braverman was the Bully XL of politics and it was long overdue for her to be defanged.

    I had already said in the last thread this wouldn't change the polls. But that doesn't mean it was not worth doing in its own right.
    She was right to spot the way homeless cities arise, and warn about it, her language was offensively wrong. AFAIK she did not explicitly call for protests to be banned?

    Am I the only person that actually read her Times article about protests? This is what she actually says, she actually says the opposite of "ban them", at least in this article:

    "The right to protest in public is a cornerstone of democracy. That is why peaceful marches are never banned and even controversial and disruptive ones are policed rather than blocked.

    Only in the most exceptional circumstances do the authorities step in. The way the law works is clear: if a chief constable believes that there is a serious risk of disorder which the police will struggle to contain, he or she can ask the home secretary to ban a march. Even then, a static protest can take place."

    She goes on:


    "Right-wing and nationalist protesters who engage in aggression are rightly met with a stern response yet pro-Palestinian mobs displaying almost identical behaviour are largely ignored, even when clearly breaking the law? I have spoken to serving and former police officers who have noted this double standard.

    Football fans are even more vocal about the tough way they are policed as compared to politically-connected minority groups who are favoured by the left. It may be that senior officers are more concerned with how much flak they are likely to get than whether this perceived unfairness alienates the majority. The government has a duty to take a broader view.

    If the march goes ahead this weekend, the public will expect to see an assertive and proactive approach to any displays of hate, breaches of conditions and general disorder."

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/pro-palestine-protest-london-met-police-cbqnxbtv3

    The whole point is a call for even-handed policing. And after what I saw on Saturday, I would say she has been vindicated, the police were far tougher on the 300 footie hoons than on the 30,000 dodgy types in the 300,000 Pro-Pal march; they were admirably calm, they were not even-handed

    The ECHR is outdated junk and we should leave it if it prevents us policing our borders properly

    But guess what, there have been pro-Palestinian marches all over the country including London for the last month and none of them showed a fraction of the violence that was displayed by the Right wing mobs on Saturday.

    You went out on Saturday with an agenda and you fulfilled it. That says far more about you than it does about either side in the protests and it bears little or no relation to reality.

    Alternatively, you chould show a tiny shred of humility and admit you got that bit wrong about Braverman? Rather than ad hominem-ing me (ineptly)?

    Up to you
    I wasn't wrong. You were. No humility needed on my side. Braverman was absolutely desperate for some real trouble from the Pro-Palestinian march on Saturday to justify her attempts to put political pressure on the police. When it didn't happen she was toast. There was no way Sunak would have risked dumping her if there had been any possible defence she could have mounted and the fact the only serious trouble came from the 'poor little football fans' sealed her fate. You are just too arrogant to admit it.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,643
    ChatGPt in the style of Tom Knox...

    Echoes of Folly

    In the hallowed halls of power, David Cameron slinked back, a ghost of political blunders. Rishi Sunak, once hailed as the savior, watched as Cameron, the prodigal failure, assumed the mantle of Foreign Secretary. The corridors whispered of Brexit echoes, austerity's ghost haunting each decision. Sunak, puppet master turned puppet, grappled with economic tumult, while Cameron reveled in the theater of global affairs. Their alliance, a dance of desperation, left a nation in cynical disarray. The legacy of Cameron's return, a testament to the folly of trusting in yesterday's leaders. The plot thickened, Knoxian twists turning political tragedy into a dark comedy.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,664
    edited November 2023
    Leon said:

    Leon, of PB
    Was feeling nit pickey
    So he picked on Boulay
    In a way rather outre

    I tried to feed it "Cocaine Hippos" but it failed to come up with anything good. ChatGPT really isn't that great (at least, the free one).

    In Colombia, Leon the explorer,
    Sipped aguardiente, an avid adorer.
    Cocaine Hippos swayed with glee,
    As he toasted his journey, wild and free.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @YouGov

    Britons think Rishi Sunak was right rather than wrong to sack Suella Braverman as home secretary

    Right to sack her: 57% (44% of Con 2019 voters)
    Wrong to sack her: 20% (39% of Con 2019 voters)

    https://x.com/YouGov/status/1724071651829043487?s=20

    Don't let Leon see that. He is convinced only 3 bumpkins and a scrofulous dog called Bobby wanted Braverman sacked.
    Too late. I’ve seen it

    Did I ever say anything different to you? I strongly support Braverman’s stand on the Wokeness but I say - on this thread - she is “clumsy, naive, foolish, maladroit” and much else

    I can see why you might sack her. But then, she is the only minister with the guts to stand up to the left and say hard but true things. That’s why she still has the support of half the Tories - as we see in this poll

    Sunak has alienated all those Tories - and for what? What does he gain? Does he honestly think millions of grateful people will flock back to the Tories now she’s gone and David Duke of Brexit* has got his feet up in Chevening?

    I predict the polls will not shift significantly at all, but Tory infighting will get worse. So: a net negative. That’s bad politics

    *that’s mine and I demand copyright
    Given they were 99% certain to lose the next election I would suggest that, if they want to drag the party back towards the centre, it would be better (for them rather than the country) to get the infighting happening now and purge the ERG types rather than wait until after the election when they are in Opposition and the Right Wing are far more likely to win the leadership.

    And much of what she says is not true. People don't generally choose to live on the streets. We should not ban protests just because we disagree with the opinions being expressed. It is not the fault of the ECHR if the UK Supreme Court says we are not allowed to send asylum seekers to Africa.

    Braverman was the Bully XL of politics and it was long overdue for her to be defanged.

    I had already said in the last thread this wouldn't change the polls. But that doesn't mean it was not worth doing in its own right.
    She was right to spot the way homeless cities arise, and warn about it, her language was offensively wrong. AFAIK she did not explicitly call for protests to be banned?

    Am I the only person that actually read her Times article about protests? This is what she actually says, she actually says the opposite of "ban them", at least in this article:

    "The right to protest in public is a cornerstone of democracy. That is why peaceful marches are never banned and even controversial and disruptive ones are policed rather than blocked.

    Only in the most exceptional circumstances do the authorities step in. The way the law works is clear: if a chief constable believes that there is a serious risk of disorder which the police will struggle to contain, he or she can ask the home secretary to ban a march. Even then, a static protest can take place."

    She goes on:


    "Right-wing and nationalist protesters who engage in aggression are rightly met with a stern response yet pro-Palestinian mobs displaying almost identical behaviour are largely ignored, even when clearly breaking the law? I have spoken to serving and former police officers who have noted this double standard.

    Football fans are even more vocal about the tough way they are policed as compared to politically-connected minority groups who are favoured by the left. It may be that senior officers are more concerned with how much flak they are likely to get than whether this perceived unfairness alienates the majority. The government has a duty to take a broader view.

    If the march goes ahead this weekend, the public will expect to see an assertive and proactive approach to any displays of hate, breaches of conditions and general disorder."

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/pro-palestine-protest-london-met-police-cbqnxbtv3

    The whole point is a call for even-handed policing. And after what I saw on Saturday, I would say she has been vindicated, the police were far tougher on the 300 footie hoons than on the 30,000 dodgy types in the 300,000 Pro-Pal march; they were admirably calm, they were not even-handed

    The ECHR is outdated junk and we should leave it if it prevents us policing our borders properly

    But guess what, there have been pro-Palestinian marches all over the country including London for the last month and none of them showed a fraction of the violence that was displayed by the Right wing mobs on Saturday.

    You went out on Saturday with an agenda and you fulfilled it. That says far more about you than it does about either side in the protests and it bears little or no relation to reality.

    Alternatively, you chould show a tiny shred of humility and admit you got that bit wrong about Braverman? Rather than ad hominem-ing me (ineptly)?

    Up to you
    I wasn't wrong. You were. No humility needed on my side. Braverman was absolutely desperate for some real trouble from the Pro-Palestinian march on Saturday to justify her attempts to put political pressure on the police. When it didn't happen she was toast. There was no way Sunak would have risked dumping her if there had been any possible defence she could have mounted and the fact the only serious trouble came from the 'poor little football fans' sealed her fate. You are just too arrogant to admit it.
    Dick Tyndall, of PB
    Knows not humility
    Which is quite a surprise
    Given his penile size


    OH YES. I DID THAT IN FIFTEEN SECONDS
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,051
    A PB poster of renown
    Sought the poetry crown
    With AI he communed
    But it had no idea what a Clerihew was so his last line was shit.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    kamski said:

    Leon said:

    Leon, of PB
    Was feeling nit pickey
    So he picked on Boulay
    In a way rather outre

    Whether AI
    Or whether it's you
    Absolute shite
    A big pile of poo
    That's just not very good, is it? Nor is it anything like a clerihew. Otherwise, nice
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277

    Leon said:

    Leon, of PB
    Was feeling nit pickey
    So he picked on Boulay
    In a way rather outre

    I tried to feed it "Cocaine Hippos" but it failed to come up with anything good. ChatGPT really isn't that great (at least, the free one).

    In Colombia, Leon the explorer,
    Sipped aguardiente, an avid adorer.
    Cocaine Hippos swayed with glee,
    As he toasted his journey, wild and free.
    Yep, ChatGPT is crap at poetry. It's all in that same laboured style, childish verse and weary rhymes

    Anyway I'm sorry but I win the prize with

    Dick Tyndall, of PB
    Knows not humility
    Which is quite a surprise
    Given his penile size

    Esp when I came up with it in half a minute. I may have to uprate my IQ estimate, yet again!
  • Less putrid "poetry" and more problematic commentary, please.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277

    Less putrid "poetry" and more problematic commentary, please.

    I'll do you next, old man
  • MikeL said:

    Could Dave stand as an MP at the GE and give up his Peerage if he wins?

    Yes but he won’t.
    Suppose Remain had won the referendum and Dave stood down in 2018 or 2019 as PM for Osborne? Would he have stayed on in government as George's FS or would he have wanted a hiatus first?
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,792
    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    YAY

    Work is sending me to Colombia in March. Never been. Nice

    Leon of PB
    Is very "travel-y"
    Now he's off to Colombia
    It won't make him humbler

    Leon will be writing in
    ‘Bout the wildest slums of Medellin
    Following the footsteps of Escobar
    Whilst never leaving the hotel bar.
    Nice, tho "writing in 'bout" is a little clumsy, if one is feeling nit picky
    The “A” gave it an extra syllable I didn’t like but it’s a bit forced I agree.
    They're meant to be a bit forced.
    Jokes by "kinabalu"
    Are rare - like white dog poo
    But if you want a moral lesson
    Then he gets a wiggle on


    Needs a better final line
    Kinabalu
    Said "I suppose North London'll do,
    It's just that my taste for life has gotten ever faster
    Since leaving Doncaster"
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,310
    MattW said:

    Sean_F said:

    MattW said:

    Post Office Scandal.

    There's a new series of 6 programmes Mon-Fri lunchtime and Fri evening updating this on Radio 4 by Nick Wallis.

    First one is on now.

    All 6 are available at the podcast page:
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000jf7j/broadcasts/upcoming

    Although @Cyclefree has suggested the Judge suspend the inquiry, so that prosecutions might follow, I do want to see Paula Venells facing the music. No doubt "lessons have been learned", and "I think I'm the real victim here", will feature in her evidence.
    Listening to the first one, which is Episode 13, it seems to be classic project mismanagement / politics (client kept at arms' length so inadequate quality supervision) followed by 'Fijitsu is an important investor to the UK so we'd better accept it' pandering to the supplier at the very highest political level.

    I can't call Paula Vennells' reaction - we'll have to see.
    Previous Post Office CEO's also need to be called to give evidence. The failings were not just down Ms Vennells.

    They are:-

    David Mills (2002–2005)
    Alan Cook (2006–2010)
    Paula Vennells (2012–2019)
    Nick Read (2019 to date.

    Nick Read needs to be asked about the Post Office's lamentable failure to comply with the Inquiry's requirements: seven disclosure failings in 2 years.

    Then there are the Chairs. The current one is Henry Staunton, in place since 2022.

    Before him there was:-

    Tim Parker 2015 - 2022
    Alice Perkins 2011 - 2015 (married to Jack Straw)

    When the PO was part of Royal Mail the Chairs were:-

    Donald Brydon 2009 - 2011
    Allan Leighton 2002 - 2009

    These people have all been paid handsomely for their roles. While they were in charge the PO behaved in a way which has led to the biggest miscarriage of justice in British history. I don't bloody care if they are part of the great and the good with their many directorships, honours, friends and relations in high places and enormous salaries and bonuses. They need to be held accountable and explain themselves. If they want the rewards they can bloody well take the responsibility as well.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    Speaking of entertainment and politics, the National Football League honored Congressional Medal of Honor Winners this weekend:
    "ARLINGTON, Texas (FOX 9) - Look for many tributes to America’s veterans during the NFL games this weekend. But immediately following the Vikings vs. Saints game on FOX 9, the NFL and FOX Sports will air a special halftime salute to Medal of Honor recipients during the Cowboys game against the Giants at AT&T Stadium in Arlington, Texas."

    At the Seahawks/Commanders game, the coaches were wearing Army brown sweat shirts. (There may have been other tributes, but I didn't watch the entire game, so I didn't see them, if there were.)

    Politicians may have learned something, too; on Saturday, this opened: https://americanindian.si.edu/visit/washington/nnavm

    Perhaps Hollywood can learn something from those events.



    You guys play the national anthem before every single game. The number of flags is off the charts. It's amazing there is any time for any sport shoehorned in given the many and varied overt displays of patriotism.
  • Good afternoon

    indeed they are more likely to draw us closer to the EU

    If you want the party to split and splinter then that's exactly what you should dial-up. That's the real fear of a good chunk of the members and the parliamentary party and it drives polarisation.

    Not a helpful comment. And I don't think it's true either.
  • MikeL said:

    Could Dave stand as an MP at the GE and give up his Peerage if he wins?

    Yes but he won’t.
    Suppose Remain had won the referendum and Dave stood down in 2018 or 2019 as PM for Osborne? Would he have stayed on in government as George's FS or would he have wanted a hiatus first?
    A break, he wanted family time.
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860

    biggles said:

    Good afternoon

    With Cameron's appointment to cabinet alongside Hunt, Cleverly and Sunak the WF and Good Friday Agreement are safe as none of them will sanction leaving the ECHR, and indeed they are more likely to draw us closer to the EU

    Indeed Mark Rutter has apparently congratulated Cameron on his appointment, and maybe and hopefully, this moment will see the right pass their peak of influence much like Corbynites in Labour

    Farage must be gutted he’s out of the country. There’s a whole narrative to be launched here about “the people” wanting XYZ and “the establishment” closing ranks to prevent it. He could even extend that to Corbynite stuff.

    Of course, he may yet launch that agenda via prime time on ITV television.
    Lots of politicians have tried to reach the people via reality shows- have any of them come out with an enhanced reputation?
    Hancock, to some extent.
    Portillo did a 'life swap' type programme with a single parent on benefits, back in the day. IIRC this changed a lot of people's views on him, though he turned the momentum into a media career.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,561
    edited November 2023
    Leon said:

    YAY

    Work is sending me to Colombia in March. Never been. Nice

    Leon of PB
    Is very "travel-y"
    Now he's off to Colombia
    It won't make him humbler

    Make sure to visit the Gold Museum in Bogota. Outstanding.

    https://colombia.travel/en/bogota/gold-museum

    And if you want to people watch amongst the great and the good of Bogota, see if you can wangle an invite to the Gun Club.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,643
    About to crack, Sunak
    Turns the clock back
    Foolhardy or brave,
    A man called Dave?
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,520
    edited November 2023
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @YouGov

    Britons think Rishi Sunak was right rather than wrong to sack Suella Braverman as home secretary

    Right to sack her: 57% (44% of Con 2019 voters)
    Wrong to sack her: 20% (39% of Con 2019 voters)

    https://x.com/YouGov/status/1724071651829043487?s=20

    Don't let Leon see that. He is convinced only 3 bumpkins and a scrofulous dog called Bobby wanted Braverman sacked.
    Too late. I’ve seen it

    Did I ever say anything different to you? I strongly support Braverman’s stand on the Wokeness but I say - on this thread - she is “clumsy, naive, foolish, maladroit” and much else

    I can see why you might sack her. But then, she is the only minister with the guts to stand up to the left and say hard but true things. That’s why she still has the support of half the Tories - as we see in this poll

    Sunak has alienated all those Tories - and for what? What does he gain? Does he honestly think millions of grateful people will flock back to the Tories now she’s gone and David Duke of Brexit* has got his feet up in Chevening?

    I predict the polls will not shift significantly at all, but Tory infighting will get worse. So: a net negative. That’s bad politics

    *that’s mine and I demand copyright
    Given they were 99% certain to lose the next election I would suggest that, if they want to drag the party back towards the centre, it would be better (for them rather than the country) to get the infighting happening now and purge the ERG types rather than wait until after the election when they are in Opposition and the Right Wing are far more likely to win the leadership.

    And much of what she says is not true. People don't generally choose to live on the streets. We should not ban protests just because we disagree with the opinions being expressed. It is not the fault of the ECHR if the UK Supreme Court says we are not allowed to send asylum seekers to Africa.

    Braverman was the Bully XL of politics and it was long overdue for her to be defanged.

    I had already said in the last thread this wouldn't change the polls. But that doesn't mean it was not worth doing in its own right.
    She was right to spot the way homeless cities arise, and warn about it, her language was offensively wrong. AFAIK she did not explicitly call for protests to be banned?

    Am I the only person that actually read her Times article about protests? This is what she actually says, she actually says the opposite of "ban them", at least in this article:

    "The right to protest in public is a cornerstone of democracy. That is why peaceful marches are never banned and even controversial and disruptive ones are policed rather than blocked.

    Only in the most exceptional circumstances do the authorities step in. The way the law works is clear: if a chief constable believes that there is a serious risk of disorder which the police will struggle to contain, he or she can ask the home secretary to ban a march. Even then, a static protest can take place."

    She goes on:


    "Right-wing and nationalist protesters who engage in aggression are rightly met with a stern response yet pro-Palestinian mobs displaying almost identical behaviour are largely ignored, even when clearly breaking the law? I have spoken to serving and former police officers who have noted this double standard.

    Football fans are even more vocal about the tough way they are policed as compared to politically-connected minority groups who are favoured by the left. It may be that senior officers are more concerned with how much flak they are likely to get than whether this perceived unfairness alienates the majority. The government has a duty to take a broader view.

    If the march goes ahead this weekend, the public will expect to see an assertive and proactive approach to any displays of hate, breaches of conditions and general disorder."

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/pro-palestine-protest-london-met-police-cbqnxbtv3

    The whole point is a call for even-handed policing. And after what I saw on Saturday, I would say she has been vindicated, the police were far tougher on the 300 footie hoons than on the 30,000 dodgy types in the 300,000 Pro-Pal march; they were admirably calm, they were not even-handed

    The ECHR is outdated junk and we should leave it if it prevents us policing our borders properly

    But guess what, there have been pro-Palestinian marches all over the country including London for the last month and none of them showed a fraction of the violence that was displayed by the Right wing mobs on Saturday.

    You went out on Saturday with an agenda and you fulfilled it. That says far more about you than it does about either side in the protests and it bears little or no relation to reality.

    Alternatively, you chould show a tiny shred of humility and admit you got that bit wrong about Braverman? Rather than ad hominem-ing me (ineptly)?

    Up to you
    I wasn't wrong. You were. No humility needed on my side. Braverman was absolutely desperate for some real trouble from the Pro-Palestinian march on Saturday to justify her attempts to put political pressure on the police. When it didn't happen she was toast. There was no way Sunak would have risked dumping her if there had been any possible defence she could have mounted and the fact the only serious trouble came from the 'poor little football fans' sealed her fate. You are just too arrogant to admit it.
    Dick Tyndall, of PB
    Knows not humility
    Which is quite a surprise
    Given his penile size


    OH YES. I DID THAT IN FIFTEEN SECONDS
    It shows.

    Edit. I was going to say don't give up the day job but then I remembered this was your day job so you have my sympathies.
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,706
    edited November 2023
    Quite a big move on GE date market.

    Q2 and Q3 have both shortened.

    Q4 has lengthened - now back 1.69 / lay 1.8 (was 1.5 yesterday)
  • DougSeal said:

    Speaking of entertainment and politics, the National Football League honored Congressional Medal of Honor Winners this weekend:
    "ARLINGTON, Texas (FOX 9) - Look for many tributes to America’s veterans during the NFL games this weekend. But immediately following the Vikings vs. Saints game on FOX 9, the NFL and FOX Sports will air a special halftime salute to Medal of Honor recipients during the Cowboys game against the Giants at AT&T Stadium in Arlington, Texas."

    At the Seahawks/Commanders game, the coaches were wearing Army brown sweat shirts. (There may have been other tributes, but I didn't watch the entire game, so I didn't see them, if there were.)

    Politicians may have learned something, too; on Saturday, this opened: https://americanindian.si.edu/visit/washington/nnavm

    Perhaps Hollywood can learn something from those events.



    You guys play the national anthem before every single game. The number of flags is off the charts. It's amazing there is any time for any sport shoehorned in given the many and varied overt displays of patriotism.
    Have you ever attended a sporting event in the USA?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,914
    MikeL said:

    MikeL said:

    Could Dave stand as an MP at the GE and give up his Peerage if he wins?

    Yes but he won’t.
    I know but wouldn't it be amazing if he was back in position for the top job.

    Of course a Con win is very unlikely so probably the earliest he could be PM would be 2029.

    But it's worth being in the Commons - you never know what might happen.

    If George Osborne had remained an MP, it must be highly likely he would have become PM at some point.
    Osborne becoming PM required Remain to win the referendum so he could succeed Cameron.

    If Remain had narrowly won the referendum whether he would have beaten Corbyn clearly with a resurgent UKIP to his right flank too is debateable, at best for him it would probably have been a result similar to what 2017 was for May
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @YouGov

    Britons think Rishi Sunak was right rather than wrong to sack Suella Braverman as home secretary

    Right to sack her: 57% (44% of Con 2019 voters)
    Wrong to sack her: 20% (39% of Con 2019 voters)

    https://x.com/YouGov/status/1724071651829043487?s=20

    Don't let Leon see that. He is convinced only 3 bumpkins and a scrofulous dog called Bobby wanted Braverman sacked.
    Too late. I’ve seen it

    Did I ever say anything different to you? I strongly support Braverman’s stand on the Wokeness but I say - on this thread - she is “clumsy, naive, foolish, maladroit” and much else

    I can see why you might sack her. But then, she is the only minister with the guts to stand up to the left and say hard but true things. That’s why she still has the support of half the Tories - as we see in this poll

    Sunak has alienated all those Tories - and for what? What does he gain? Does he honestly think millions of grateful people will flock back to the Tories now she’s gone and David Duke of Brexit* has got his feet up in Chevening?

    I predict the polls will not shift significantly at all, but Tory infighting will get worse. So: a net negative. That’s bad politics

    *that’s mine and I demand copyright
    Given they were 99% certain to lose the next election I would suggest that, if they want to drag the party back towards the centre, it would be better (for them rather than the country) to get the infighting happening now and purge the ERG types rather than wait until after the election when they are in Opposition and the Right Wing are far more likely to win the leadership.

    And much of what she says is not true. People don't generally choose to live on the streets. We should not ban protests just because we disagree with the opinions being expressed. It is not the fault of the ECHR if the UK Supreme Court says we are not allowed to send asylum seekers to Africa.

    Braverman was the Bully XL of politics and it was long overdue for her to be defanged.

    I had already said in the last thread this wouldn't change the polls. But that doesn't mean it was not worth doing in its own right.
    She was right to spot the way homeless cities arise, and warn about it, her language was offensively wrong. AFAIK she did not explicitly call for protests to be banned?

    Am I the only person that actually read her Times article about protests? This is what she actually says, she actually says the opposite of "ban them", at least in this article:

    "The right to protest in public is a cornerstone of democracy. That is why peaceful marches are never banned and even controversial and disruptive ones are policed rather than blocked.

    Only in the most exceptional circumstances do the authorities step in. The way the law works is clear: if a chief constable believes that there is a serious risk of disorder which the police will struggle to contain, he or she can ask the home secretary to ban a march. Even then, a static protest can take place."

    She goes on:


    "Right-wing and nationalist protesters who engage in aggression are rightly met with a stern response yet pro-Palestinian mobs displaying almost identical behaviour are largely ignored, even when clearly breaking the law? I have spoken to serving and former police officers who have noted this double standard.

    Football fans are even more vocal about the tough way they are policed as compared to politically-connected minority groups who are favoured by the left. It may be that senior officers are more concerned with how much flak they are likely to get than whether this perceived unfairness alienates the majority. The government has a duty to take a broader view.

    If the march goes ahead this weekend, the public will expect to see an assertive and proactive approach to any displays of hate, breaches of conditions and general disorder."

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/pro-palestine-protest-london-met-police-cbqnxbtv3

    The whole point is a call for even-handed policing. And after what I saw on Saturday, I would say she has been vindicated, the police were far tougher on the 300 footie hoons than on the 30,000 dodgy types in the 300,000 Pro-Pal march; they were admirably calm, they were not even-handed

    The ECHR is outdated junk and we should leave it if it prevents us policing our borders properly

    But guess what, there have been pro-Palestinian marches all over the country including London for the last month and none of them showed a fraction of the violence that was displayed by the Right wing mobs on Saturday.

    You went out on Saturday with an agenda and you fulfilled it. That says far more about you than it does about either side in the protests and it bears little or no relation to reality.

    Alternatively, you chould show a tiny shred of humility and admit you got that bit wrong about Braverman? Rather than ad hominem-ing me (ineptly)?

    Up to you
    I wasn't wrong. You were. No humility needed on my side. Braverman was absolutely desperate for some real trouble from the Pro-Palestinian march on Saturday to justify her attempts to put political pressure on the police. When it didn't happen she was toast. There was no way Sunak would have risked dumping her if there had been any possible defence she could have mounted and the fact the only serious trouble came from the 'poor little football fans' sealed her fate. You are just too arrogant to admit it.
    Dick Tyndall, of PB
    Knows not humility
    Which is quite a surprise
    Given his penile size


    OH YES. I DID THAT IN FIFTEEN SECONDS
    It shows.

    Edit. I was going to say don't give up the day job but then I remembered this was your day job so you have my sympathies.
    Wait til you see where my day job takes me tomorrow

  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,246
    edited November 2023
    biggles said:

    A PB poster of renown
    Sought the poetry crown
    With AI he communed
    But it had no idea what a Clerihew was so his last line was shit.

    There once was a bard of Japan
    Who wrote limericks that no-one could scan.
    When told this was so,
    Replied "Yes, I know...
    ...the problem is I always try to fit as many words into the last line as I possibly can."
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,785
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @YouGov

    Britons think Rishi Sunak was right rather than wrong to sack Suella Braverman as home secretary

    Right to sack her: 57% (44% of Con 2019 voters)
    Wrong to sack her: 20% (39% of Con 2019 voters)

    https://x.com/YouGov/status/1724071651829043487?s=20

    Don't let Leon see that. He is convinced only 3 bumpkins and a scrofulous dog called Bobby wanted Braverman sacked.
    Too late. I’ve seen it

    Did I ever say anything different to you? I strongly support Braverman’s stand on the Wokeness but I say - on this thread - she is “clumsy, naive, foolish, maladroit” and much else

    I can see why you might sack her. But then, she is the only minister with the guts to stand up to the left and say hard but true things. That’s why she still has the support of half the Tories - as we see in this poll

    Sunak has alienated all those Tories - and for what? What does he gain? Does he honestly think millions of grateful people will flock back to the Tories now she’s gone and David Duke of Brexit* has got his feet up in Chevening?

    I predict the polls will not shift significantly at all, but Tory infighting will get worse. So: a net negative. That’s bad politics

    *that’s mine and I demand copyright
    Given they were 99% certain to lose the next election I would suggest that, if they want to drag the party back towards the centre, it would be better (for them rather than the country) to get the infighting happening now and purge the ERG types rather than wait until after the election when they are in Opposition and the Right Wing are far more likely to win the leadership.

    And much of what she says is not true. People don't generally choose to live on the streets. We should not ban protests just because we disagree with the opinions being expressed. It is not the fault of the ECHR if the UK Supreme Court says we are not allowed to send asylum seekers to Africa.

    Braverman was the Bully XL of politics and it was long overdue for her to be defanged.

    I had already said in the last thread this wouldn't change the polls. But that doesn't mean it was not worth doing in its own right.
    She was right to spot the way homeless cities arise, and warn about it, her language was offensively wrong. AFAIK she did not explicitly call for protests to be banned?

    Am I the only person that actually read her Times article about protests? This is what she actually says, she actually says the opposite of "ban them", at least in this article:

    "The right to protest in public is a cornerstone of democracy. That is why peaceful marches are never banned and even controversial and disruptive ones are policed rather than blocked.

    Only in the most exceptional circumstances do the authorities step in. The way the law works is clear: if a chief constable believes that there is a serious risk of disorder which the police will struggle to contain, he or she can ask the home secretary to ban a march. Even then, a static protest can take place."

    She goes on:


    "Right-wing and nationalist protesters who engage in aggression are rightly met with a stern response yet pro-Palestinian mobs displaying almost identical behaviour are largely ignored, even when clearly breaking the law? I have spoken to serving and former police officers who have noted this double standard.

    Football fans are even more vocal about the tough way they are policed as compared to politically-connected minority groups who are favoured by the left. It may be that senior officers are more concerned with how much flak they are likely to get than whether this perceived unfairness alienates the majority. The government has a duty to take a broader view.

    If the march goes ahead this weekend, the public will expect to see an assertive and proactive approach to any displays of hate, breaches of conditions and general disorder."

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/pro-palestine-protest-london-met-police-cbqnxbtv3

    The whole point is a call for even-handed policing. And after what I saw on Saturday, I would say she has been vindicated, the police were far tougher on the 300 footie hoons than on the 30,000 dodgy types in the 300,000 Pro-Pal march; they were admirably calm, they were not even-handed

    The ECHR is outdated junk and we should leave it if it prevents us policing our borders properly

    But guess what, there have been pro-Palestinian marches all over the country including London for the last month and none of them showed a fraction of the violence that was displayed by the Right wing mobs on Saturday.

    You went out on Saturday with an agenda and you fulfilled it. That says far more about you than it does about either side in the protests and it bears little or no relation to reality.

    Alternatively, you chould show a tiny shred of humility and admit you got that bit wrong about Braverman? Rather than ad hominem-ing me (ineptly)?

    Up to you
    I wasn't wrong. You were. No humility needed on my side. Braverman was absolutely desperate for some real trouble from the Pro-Palestinian march on Saturday to justify her attempts to put political pressure on the police. When it didn't happen she was toast. There was no way Sunak would have risked dumping her if there had been any possible defence she could have mounted and the fact the only serious trouble came from the 'poor little football fans' sealed her fate. You are just too arrogant to admit it.
    Dick Tyndall, of PB
    Knows not humility
    Which is quite a surprise
    Given his penile size


    OH YES. I DID THAT IN FIFTEEN SECONDS
    It shows.

    Edit. I was going to say don't give up the day job but then I remembered this was your day job so you have my sympathies.
    Wait til you see where my day job takes me tomorrow

    Hopefully somewhere other than PB. It is going to be yet another day of 100 plus posts. Have you no life outside of PB.
  • Cyclefree said:

    MattW said:

    Sean_F said:

    MattW said:

    Post Office Scandal.

    There's a new series of 6 programmes Mon-Fri lunchtime and Fri evening updating this on Radio 4 by Nick Wallis.

    First one is on now.

    All 6 are available at the podcast page:
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000jf7j/broadcasts/upcoming

    Although @Cyclefree has suggested the Judge suspend the inquiry, so that prosecutions might follow, I do want to see Paula Venells facing the music. No doubt "lessons have been learned", and "I think I'm the real victim here", will feature in her evidence.
    Listening to the first one, which is Episode 13, it seems to be classic project mismanagement / politics (client kept at arms' length so inadequate quality supervision) followed by 'Fijitsu is an important investor to the UK so we'd better accept it' pandering to the supplier at the very highest political level.

    I can't call Paula Vennells' reaction - we'll have to see.
    Previous Post Office CEO's also need to be called to give evidence. The failings were not just down Ms Vennells.

    They are:-

    David Mills (2002–2005)
    Alan Cook (2006–2010)
    Paula Vennells (2012–2019)
    Nick Read (2019 to date.

    Nick Read needs to be asked about the Post Office's lamentable failure to comply with the Inquiry's requirements: seven disclosure failings in 2 years.

    Then there are the Chairs. The current one is Henry Staunton, in place since 2022.

    Before him there was:-

    Tim Parker 2015 - 2022
    Alice Perkins 2011 - 2015 (married to Jack Straw)

    When the PO was part of Royal Mail the Chairs were:-

    Donald Brydon 2009 - 2011
    Allan Leighton 2002 - 2009

    These people have all been paid handsomely for their roles. While they were in charge the PO behaved in a way which has led to the biggest miscarriage of justice in British history. I don't bloody care if they are part of the great and the good with their many directorships, honours, friends and relations in high places and enormous salaries and bonuses. They need to be held accountable and explain themselves. If they want the rewards they can bloody well take the responsibility as well.
    Perhaps the rot began, when the "great and good" disrespected, and dismissed, the outstanding Postmaster General of [British] America - Benjamin Franklin.
  • Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon, of PB
    Was feeling nit pickey
    So he picked on Boulay
    In a way rather outre

    I tried to feed it "Cocaine Hippos" but it failed to come up with anything good. ChatGPT really isn't that great (at least, the free one).

    In Colombia, Leon the explorer,
    Sipped aguardiente, an avid adorer.
    Cocaine Hippos swayed with glee,
    As he toasted his journey, wild and free.
    Yep, ChatGPT is crap at poetry. It's all in that same laboured style, childish verse and weary rhymes

    Anyway I'm sorry but I win the prize with

    Dick Tyndall, of PB
    Knows not humility
    Which is quite a surprise
    Given his penile size

    Esp when I came up with it in half a minute. I may have to uprate my IQ estimate, yet again!
    Leon's quick-fire verse
    Is sharp and rather terse
    Not AI abberation
    But self-congratulation
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,552
    Is anyone bothered by the fact that Cameron isn't an elected MP in the House of Commons?
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405
    DougSeal said:

    Speaking of entertainment and politics, the National Football League honored Congressional Medal of Honor Winners this weekend:
    "ARLINGTON, Texas (FOX 9) - Look for many tributes to America’s veterans during the NFL games this weekend. But immediately following the Vikings vs. Saints game on FOX 9, the NFL and FOX Sports will air a special halftime salute to Medal of Honor recipients during the Cowboys game against the Giants at AT&T Stadium in Arlington, Texas."

    At the Seahawks/Commanders game, the coaches were wearing Army brown sweat shirts. (There may have been other tributes, but I didn't watch the entire game, so I didn't see them, if there were.)

    Politicians may have learned something, too; on Saturday, this opened: https://americanindian.si.edu/visit/washington/nnavm

    Perhaps Hollywood can learn something from those events.



    You guys play the national anthem before every single game. The number of flags is off the charts. It's amazing there is any time for any sport shoehorned in given the many and varied overt displays of patriotism.
    See also the Nation with the World series that only American teams (plus one Canadian) are allowed to enter...
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405
    Andy_JS said:

    Is anyone bothered by the fact that Cameron isn't an elected MP in the House of Commons?

    No. Should we be? Lords have held offices of state many, many times.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @YouGov

    Britons think Rishi Sunak was right rather than wrong to sack Suella Braverman as home secretary

    Right to sack her: 57% (44% of Con 2019 voters)
    Wrong to sack her: 20% (39% of Con 2019 voters)

    https://x.com/YouGov/status/1724071651829043487?s=20

    Don't let Leon see that. He is convinced only 3 bumpkins and a scrofulous dog called Bobby wanted Braverman sacked.
    Too late. I’ve seen it

    Did I ever say anything different to you? I strongly support Braverman’s stand on the Wokeness but I say - on this thread - she is “clumsy, naive, foolish, maladroit” and much else

    I can see why you might sack her. But then, she is the only minister with the guts to stand up to the left and say hard but true things. That’s why she still has the support of half the Tories - as we see in this poll

    Sunak has alienated all those Tories - and for what? What does he gain? Does he honestly think millions of grateful people will flock back to the Tories now she’s gone and David Duke of Brexit* has got his feet up in Chevening?

    I predict the polls will not shift significantly at all, but Tory infighting will get worse. So: a net negative. That’s bad politics

    *that’s mine and I demand copyright
    Given they were 99% certain to lose the next election I would suggest that, if they want to drag the party back towards the centre, it would be better (for them rather than the country) to get the infighting happening now and purge the ERG types rather than wait until after the election when they are in Opposition and the Right Wing are far more likely to win the leadership.

    And much of what she says is not true. People don't generally choose to live on the streets. We should not ban protests just because we disagree with the opinions being expressed. It is not the fault of the ECHR if the UK Supreme Court says we are not allowed to send asylum seekers to Africa.

    Braverman was the Bully XL of politics and it was long overdue for her to be defanged.

    I had already said in the last thread this wouldn't change the polls. But that doesn't mean it was not worth doing in its own right.
    She was right to spot the way homeless cities arise, and warn about it, her language was offensively wrong. AFAIK she did not explicitly call for protests to be banned?

    Am I the only person that actually read her Times article about protests? This is what she actually says, she actually says the opposite of "ban them", at least in this article:

    "The right to protest in public is a cornerstone of democracy. That is why peaceful marches are never banned and even controversial and disruptive ones are policed rather than blocked.

    Only in the most exceptional circumstances do the authorities step in. The way the law works is clear: if a chief constable believes that there is a serious risk of disorder which the police will struggle to contain, he or she can ask the home secretary to ban a march. Even then, a static protest can take place."

    She goes on:


    "Right-wing and nationalist protesters who engage in aggression are rightly met with a stern response yet pro-Palestinian mobs displaying almost identical behaviour are largely ignored, even when clearly breaking the law? I have spoken to serving and former police officers who have noted this double standard.

    Football fans are even more vocal about the tough way they are policed as compared to politically-connected minority groups who are favoured by the left. It may be that senior officers are more concerned with how much flak they are likely to get than whether this perceived unfairness alienates the majority. The government has a duty to take a broader view.

    If the march goes ahead this weekend, the public will expect to see an assertive and proactive approach to any displays of hate, breaches of conditions and general disorder."

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/pro-palestine-protest-london-met-police-cbqnxbtv3

    The whole point is a call for even-handed policing. And after what I saw on Saturday, I would say she has been vindicated, the police were far tougher on the 300 footie hoons than on the 30,000 dodgy types in the 300,000 Pro-Pal march; they were admirably calm, they were not even-handed

    The ECHR is outdated junk and we should leave it if it prevents us policing our borders properly

    But guess what, there have been pro-Palestinian marches all over the country including London for the last month and none of them showed a fraction of the violence that was displayed by the Right wing mobs on Saturday.

    You went out on Saturday with an agenda and you fulfilled it. That says far more about you than it does about either side in the protests and it bears little or no relation to reality.

    Alternatively, you chould show a tiny shred of humility and admit you got that bit wrong about Braverman? Rather than ad hominem-ing me (ineptly)?

    Up to you
    I wasn't wrong. You were. No humility needed on my side. Braverman was absolutely desperate for some real trouble from the Pro-Palestinian march on Saturday to justify her attempts to put political pressure on the police. When it didn't happen she was toast. There was no way Sunak would have risked dumping her if there had been any possible defence she could have mounted and the fact the only serious trouble came from the 'poor little football fans' sealed her fate. You are just too arrogant to admit it.
    Dick Tyndall, of PB
    Knows not humility
    Which is quite a surprise
    Given his penile size


    OH YES. I DID THAT IN FIFTEEN SECONDS
    It shows.

    Edit. I was going to say don't give up the day job but then I remembered this was your day job so you have my sympathies.
    Wait til you see where my day job takes me tomorrow

    Is it the East bank of the Dnipro river to spearhead the Ukranian charge? If not, not interested.

    Or Gaza? Could it be reporting live from a Hamas tunnel in Gaza, pursued by bully XL war dogs?
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,785
    edited November 2023

    DougSeal said:

    Speaking of entertainment and politics, the National Football League honored Congressional Medal of Honor Winners this weekend:
    "ARLINGTON, Texas (FOX 9) - Look for many tributes to America’s veterans during the NFL games this weekend. But immediately following the Vikings vs. Saints game on FOX 9, the NFL and FOX Sports will air a special halftime salute to Medal of Honor recipients during the Cowboys game against the Giants at AT&T Stadium in Arlington, Texas."

    At the Seahawks/Commanders game, the coaches were wearing Army brown sweat shirts. (There may have been other tributes, but I didn't watch the entire game, so I didn't see them, if there were.)

    Politicians may have learned something, too; on Saturday, this opened: https://americanindian.si.edu/visit/washington/nnavm

    Perhaps Hollywood can learn something from those events.



    You guys play the national anthem before every single game. The number of flags is off the charts. It's amazing there is any time for any sport shoehorned in given the many and varied overt displays of patriotism.
    Have you ever attended a sporting event in the USA?
    Question for you @SeaShantyIrish2. When I was in the States a few weeks ago and looked at some war memorials I was somewhat confused by the number of names on them particular those that would have had a more limited number of casualties. It then dawned on me that the memorials were for those that served in each campaign and not those that died, who were from that town or area.

    No reason why not of course and was rather touching, but not what I was used to seeing. Is this the norm in the USA.
This discussion has been closed.