I think Sunak is essentially like Chris Patten as the Last Governor in Hong Kong after the 1995 elections.
He knows he's doomed but wants to leave with his head held high as a matter of honour, having done the right thing, and stuff the political consequences.
Why he has spent the last few months (since Uxbridge) obsessed with creating dividing lines and setting traps for Labour (i.e. selling off the HS2 land as fast he can) then?
He hoped that would improve government ratings, but it hasn't worked. So now he's going to try something else.
Don't let Leon see that. He is convinced only 3 bumpkins and a scrofulous dog called Bobby wanted Braverman sacked.
Too late. I’ve seen it
Did I ever say anything different to you? I strongly support Braverman’s stand on the Wokeness but I say - on this thread - she is “clumsy, naive, foolish, maladroit” and much else
I can see why you might sack her. But then, she is the only minister with the guts to stand up to the left and say hard but true things. That’s why she still has the support of half the Tories - as we see in this poll
Sunak has alienated all those Tories - and for what? What does he gain? Does he honestly think millions of grateful people will flock back to the Tories now she’s gone and David Duke of Brexit* has got his feet up in Chevening?
I predict the polls will not shift significantly at all, but Tory infighting will get worse. So: a net negative. That’s bad politics
Just 3 or 4 weeks ago Sunak was calling out 30 years of failed consensus, stating that he was a new beginning.... now he is suddenly hiring from the ranks of that failed consensus and putting them into high office hahahahahaha ....you can't make it up. This is how to really mess with the voters' minds hahahaha who is to know what comes next.... talk about brand equity out of the window.... and with an imminent GE...wow...that is desperation. The hard right were busy calling Starmer: flip-flop. They even sold filp flops with starmers face on at the conservative conference..... I think this has to be the flip-flop of the century
So if the government wins the Rwanda case on Wednesday, Cameron is going to be one of the main politicians putting it into practice? I can't see that happening.
Cameron is FS, not Home Secretary, so he'll have nothing to do with it
Re Cameron, given his involvement in the Greensill collapse, I'm not sure he should be allowed anywhere near the levers of power.
That was a dog that didn't seem to bark in the end. For example, the huge guarantee granted somewhat injudiciously by the Scottish Government doesn't seem to have been called upon. But it wasn't Cameron's finest hour, of that there is no doubt.
But definitely on brand in the nominative Toryism stakes.
This is the first time a party chairman has had the same name as its main election strategy since the ill-fated Di Therand-Panic in the late John Major era.
It's an interesting gambit, this pivot towards the old school centre-right. The more I think about it the more I think the impact on polling and electoral chances is going to be very mixed by region. I do think there is a problem brewing for the Lib Dems in the home counties here. Especially if Hunt unveils tax cuts for the higher paid this month or in spring. Look at TSE's reaction, and Topping's, and (though I appreciate not from the home counties) BigG's. The disaffected Cameroons have been looking around for some excuse to come home, and here it is.
Whereas for Labour in the North and Midlands this return to the old crew that brought austerity, stagnation and plummy accents to cabinet this must be a gift.
It's interesting to see Sunak doing precisely the opposite of what PB Tories have been advising him in recent days. He's going after the Lib Dems and the centre, and saying yah boo to the Refuk-curious. Let's see what happens to Lib Dem VI in the coming weeks as that may tell us if the blue wall gambit has succeeded.
My local party mates are all appalled.
Much sympathy with Braverman, none with Sunak....
Yeah. I’ve gone from thinking “this is amusing” to “this will have mixed results” to “this will be a disaster”
Sunak has just annoyed far more people than he’s pleased
Why?
Daily Mail:
“Gutless Rishi Sunak sacks Suella Braverman and signs the end of the Tory party in government.
She was right about hate marches. Sacking Suella is an own goal for the Tories.
“At the Cenotaph on Saturday, there was huge support for Suella among people from all walks of life. Rishi Sunak should resign. He is utterly useless.”
Sunak has ENRAGED the right. Alienating swathes of voters. Meanwhile, who is really gonna shift their vote TO the Tories because Old Etonian Dave “Brexit loser” Cameron is back as Foreign Secretary, as an unelected Lord?
Really, who? About 3 people on here. That’s it
The consensus from the various journalists etc being interviewed on R5 and TWAO was that this was a clever or canny move by Sunak. Not something heard, well, ever actually. Almost no dissenting voices.
At the risk of doxing myself as the true Spartacus even the fact that the BBC seems to like it doesn't persuade me that it is a bad idea.
Braverman was a deeply unpleasant menace who has been damaging the government almost from the day she was reappointed. Cleverly may keep similar policies but will very definitely not have the same tone as her. The government will start to sound more like a government and less like a Trump rally.
Cameron is more skilled as a politician than literally anyone in the existing cabinet (admittedly an extremely low bar). I hope he can help create a more coherent voice that has some idea of why it is there.
But Suella was totemic for Tories who want to see someone - anyone - fighting the Woke madness. Not because she’s great - she’s maladroit and foolish and needs to shape up - but because she seems to be the only one doing that. The only person with actual right wing beliefs who is - was - prepared to tell the guardian and the BBC to get stuffed
I’m not surprised the BBC is pleased
And add to that sacking - guaranteeing Tory infighting - the appointment of loser Cameron? You are unusual in your admiration. Polls show he’s deeply unpopular. Remainers hate him, many leavers scoff at him
So will this do anything good for the Tories? My bet is no. I don’t think it will shift the polls significantly, but what it will do is not good for Sunak: it exposes the huge rifts in Toryism right before the election
Oddly enough, as you're about the only poster who ever mentions 'woke', I assume that you suffer from 'woke madness' ?
An unrelated anecdote on woke (to illustrate that Leon is not the only poster who mentions it ) : at a local secondary school - which when I last visited 18 months ago was as woke as could be: 75% of the material on the walls of corridors dealt with either sexuality, gender or race (valid concerns, but surely not worthy of 75% of any school's mental effort), it turns out that some opinions are actually quite old-fashioned: when the boys' football team's bus breaks down, they simply requisition the girls' netball team's bus, and the girl's netball team doesn't play; and when the boys' sports hall is out of action, they requisition the girls' sports hall, and girls' PE is cancelled. I don't know if this is because actually the woke is just for show, or because girls are no longer a concern of woke.
It'll take more than a few years of woke to knock over something as strong and deep-rooted as the patriarchy.
I don't think this would have happened at my school 30 years ago, which made almost no show at all of cultural matters.
You know the theory about people having a certain inbuilt level of safety? And if you make them safer in some respects, they will compensate by taking more risks? Give them a seatbelt, they will drive 10mph faster; give them a cycle helmet they will jump that red light? I have a nascent theory that people have a certain inbuilt level of woke (yes I hate the word too, but you know what I mean and I will happily use a better one if one can be found). Make them woker in respect a, they will consider themselves woke and thereby not have to behave at all woke in respect b.
Not really thought it through properly but that's what it feels like to me.
Maybe getting rid of Braverman was the right decision.
"It would be a mistake for the Tory Right to go with Suella Braverman When irrationality and loathing were becoming serious threats to civil order, she was raising the temperature rather than lowering it Janet Daley"
Just 3 or 4 weeks ago Sunak was calling out 30 years of failed consensus, stating that he was a new beginning.... now he is suddenly hiring from the ranks of that failed consensus and putting them into high office hahahahahaha ....you can't make it up. This is how to really mess with the voters' minds hahahaha who is to know what comes next.... talk about brand equity out of the window.... and with an imminent GE...wow...that is desperation. The hard right were busy calling Starmer: flip-flop. They even sold filp flops with starmers face on at the conservative conference..... I think this has to be the flip-flop of the century
In one sense I see why he keeps rolling the dice. But he is indeed incapable of picking a strategy and sticking with it and that, in itself, is pretty obvious to people and very damaging.
Don't let Leon see that. He is convinced only 3 bumpkins and a scrofulous dog called Bobby wanted Braverman sacked.
Too late. I’ve seen it
Did I ever say anything different to you? I strongly support Braverman’s stand on the Wokeness but I say - on this thread - she is “clumsy, naive, foolish, maladroit” and much else
I can see why you might sack her. But then, she is the only minister with the guts to stand up to the left and say hard but true things. That’s why she still has the support of half the Tories - as we see in this poll
Sunak has alienated all those Tories - and for what? What does he gain? Does he honestly think millions of grateful people will flock back to the Tories now she’s gone and David Duke of Brexit* has got his feet up in Chevening?
I predict the polls will not shift significantly at all, but Tory infighting will get worse. So: a net negative. That’s bad politics
*that’s mine and I demand copyright
Given they were 99% certain to lose the next election I would suggest that, if they want to drag the party back towards the centre, it would be better (for them rather than the country) to get the infighting happening now and purge the ERG types rather than wait until after the election when they are in Opposition and the Right Wing are far more likely to win the leadership.
And much of what she says is not true. People don't generally choose to live on the streets. We should not ban protests just because we disagree with the opinions being expressed. It is not the fault of the ECHR if the UK Supreme Court says we are not allowed to send asylum seekers to Africa.
Braverman was the Bully XL of politics and it was long overdue for her to be defanged.
I had already said in the last thread this wouldn't change the polls. But that doesn't mean it was not worth doing in its own right.
It's an interesting gambit, this pivot towards the old school centre-right. The more I think about it the more I think the impact on polling and electoral chances is going to be very mixed by region. I do think there is a problem brewing for the Lib Dems in the home counties here. Especially if Hunt unveils tax cuts for the higher paid this month or in spring. Look at TSE's reaction, and Topping's, and (though I appreciate not from the home counties) BigG's. The disaffected Cameroons have been looking around for some excuse to come home, and here it is.
Whereas for Labour in the North and Midlands this return to the old crew that brought austerity, stagnation and plummy accents to cabinet this must be a gift.
It's interesting to see Sunak doing precisely the opposite of what PB Tories have been advising him in recent days. He's going after the Lib Dems and the centre, and saying yah boo to the Refuk-curious. Let's see what happens to Lib Dem VI in the coming weeks as that may tell us if the blue wall gambit has succeeded.
My local party mates are all appalled.
Much sympathy with Braverman, none with Sunak....
Yeah. I’ve gone from thinking “this is amusing” to “this will have mixed results” to “this will be a disaster”
Sunak has just annoyed far more people than he’s pleased
Why?
Daily Mail:
“Gutless Rishi Sunak sacks Suella Braverman and signs the end of the Tory party in government.
She was right about hate marches. Sacking Suella is an own goal for the Tories.
“At the Cenotaph on Saturday, there was huge support for Suella among people from all walks of life. Rishi Sunak should resign. He is utterly useless.”
Sunak has ENRAGED the right. Alienating swathes of voters. Meanwhile, who is really gonna shift their vote TO the Tories because Old Etonian Dave “Brexit loser” Cameron is back as Foreign Secretary, as an unelected Lord?
Really, who? About 3 people on here. That’s it
The consensus from the various journalists etc being interviewed on R5 and TWAO was that this was a clever or canny move by Sunak. Not something heard, well, ever actually. Almost no dissenting voices.
At the risk of doxing myself as the true Spartacus even the fact that the BBC seems to like it doesn't persuade me that it is a bad idea.
Braverman was a deeply unpleasant menace who has been damaging the government almost from the day she was reappointed. Cleverly may keep similar policies but will very definitely not have the same tone as her. The government will start to sound more like a government and less like a Trump rally.
Cameron is more skilled as a politician than literally anyone in the existing cabinet (admittedly an extremely low bar). I hope he can help create a more coherent voice that has some idea of why it is there.
But Suella was totemic for Tories who want to see someone - anyone - fighting the Woke madness. Not because she’s great - she’s maladroit and foolish and needs to shape up - but because she seems to be the only one doing that. The only person with actual right wing beliefs who is - was - prepared to tell the guardian and the BBC to get stuffed
I’m not surprised the BBC is pleased
And add to that sacking - guaranteeing Tory infighting - the appointment of loser Cameron? You are unusual in your admiration. Polls show he’s deeply unpopular. Remainers hate him, many leavers scoff at him
So will this do anything good for the Tories? My bet is no. I don’t think it will shift the polls significantly, but what it will do is not good for Sunak: it exposes the huge rifts in Toryism right before the election
Oddly enough, as you're about the only poster who ever mentions 'woke', I assume that you suffer from 'woke madness' ?
An unrelated anecdote on woke (to illustrate that Leon is not the only poster who mentions it ) : at a local secondary school - which when I last visited 18 months ago was as woke as could be: 75% of the material on the walls of corridors dealt with either sexuality, gender or race (valid concerns, but surely not worthy of 75% of any school's mental effort), it turns out that some opinions are actually quite old-fashioned: when the boys' football team's bus breaks down, they simply requisition the girls' netball team's bus, and the girl's netball team doesn't play; and when the boys' sports hall is out of action, they requisition the girls' sports hall, and girls' PE is cancelled. I don't know if this is because actually the woke is just for show, or because girls are no longer a concern of woke.
It'll take more than a few years of woke to knock over something as strong and deep-rooted as the patriarchy.
I don't think this would have happened at my school 30 years ago, which made almost no show at all of cultural matters.
You know the theory about people having a certain inbuilt level of safety? And if you make them safer in some respects, they will compensate by taking more risks? Give them a seatbelt, they will drive 10mph faster; give them a cycle helmet they will jump that red light? I have a nascent theory that people have a certain inbuilt level of woke (yes I hate the word too, but you know what I mean and I will happily use a better one if one can be found). Make them woker in respect a, they will consider themselves woke and thereby not have to behave at all woke in respect b.
Not really thought it through properly but that's what it feels like to me.
Dictionary definition of 'Woke' 'alert to injustice and discrimination in society, especially racism'
Re Cameron, given his involvement in the Greensill collapse, I'm not sure he should be allowed anywhere near the levers of power.
That was a dog that didn't seem to bark in the end. For example, the huge guarantee granted somewhat injudiciously by the Scottish Government doesn't seem to have been called upon. But it wasn't Cameron's finest hour, of that there is no doubt.
Re Cameron, given his involvement in the Greensill collapse, I'm not sure he should be allowed anywhere near the levers of power.
That was a dog that didn't seem to bark in the end. For example, the huge guarantee granted somewhat injudiciously by the Scottish Government doesn't seem to have been called upon. But it wasn't Cameron's finest hour, of that there is no doubt.
I think Sunak is essentially like Chris Patten as the Last Governor in Hong Kong after the 1995 elections.
He knows he's doomed but wants to leave with his head held high as a matter of honour, having done the right thing, and stuff the political consequences.
He is making an art of *not* doing the right thing. He has not addressed housing, not addressed the stagnating economy, not addressed mass immigration, not addressed public sector productivity. He seems to want to squat in Number 10 for little reason except to give Labour a smooth path into Government, and stuff the consequences to the Tory Party while he heads to California to have another crack at being a 'tech-bro'.
So if the government wins the Rwanda case on Wednesday, Cameron is going to be one of the main politicians putting it into practice? I can't see that happening.
Why not? He was always amateurish and a callous, cruel PM at times (see the welfare cuts etc).
Don't let Leon see that. He is convinced only 3 bumpkins and a scrofulous dog called Bobby wanted Braverman sacked.
Too late. I’ve seen it
Did I ever say anything different to you? I strongly support Braverman’s stand on the Wokeness but I say - on this thread - she is “clumsy, naive, foolish, maladroit” and much else
I can see why you might sack her. But then, she is the only minister with the guts to stand up to the left and say hard but true things. That’s why she still has the support of half the Tories - as we see in this poll
Sunak has alienated all those Tories - and for what? What does he gain? Does he honestly think millions of grateful people will flock back to the Tories now she’s gone and David Duke of Brexit* has got his feet up in Chevening?
I predict the polls will not shift significantly at all, but Tory infighting will get worse. So: a net negative. That’s bad politics
*that’s mine and I demand copyright
Given they were 99% certain to lose the next election I would suggest that, if they want to drag the party back towards the centre, it would be better (for them rather than the country) to get the infighting happening now and purge the ERG types rather than wait until after the election when they are in Opposition and the Right Wing are far more likely to win the leadership.
I don't think it'd in any way be better for The Tory Party to get the infighting done now. They'd lose more heavily than necessary at the General Election (perhaps catastrophically so), and then they'd still get dragged right in opposition by people saying "told you so".
I don't think this is about shoring up the Blue Wall having written off the Red One or anything like that. I don't think there's any deep strategy at all going on. Sunak's game is to throw rocks in the pond and job done in this regard. Who saw this play coming? Nobody. That's a 'win' for him in itself. He'll be chuffed and I'm impressed. I revise my Nowcast call on Labour overall majority from 115 to 110.
Re Cameron, given his involvement in the Greensill collapse, I'm not sure he should be allowed anywhere near the levers of power.
That was a dog that didn't seem to bark in the end. For example, the huge guarantee granted somewhat injudiciously by the Scottish Government doesn't seem to have been called upon. But it wasn't Cameron's finest hour, of that there is no doubt.
His lobbying was extremely unhappy unseemly.
I agree. A serious error of judgment.
Given that (presumably) he made a lot of money, and his return to politics has not been encumbered in any way, it seems he made a very correct judgement.
Don't let Leon see that. He is convinced only 3 bumpkins and a scrofulous dog called Bobby wanted Braverman sacked.
Too late. I’ve seen it
Did I ever say anything different to you? I strongly support Braverman’s stand on the Wokeness but I say - on this thread - she is “clumsy, naive, foolish, maladroit” and much else
I can see why you might sack her. But then, she is the only minister with the guts to stand up to the left and say hard but true things. That’s why she still has the support of half the Tories - as we see in this poll
Sunak has alienated all those Tories - and for what? What does he gain? Does he honestly think millions of grateful people will flock back to the Tories now she’s gone and David Duke of Brexit* has got his feet up in Chevening?
I predict the polls will not shift significantly at all, but Tory infighting will get worse. So: a net negative. That’s bad politics
*that’s mine and I demand copyright
Given they were 99% certain to lose the next election I would suggest that, if they want to drag the party back towards the centre, it would be better (for them rather than the country) to get the infighting happening now and purge the ERG types rather than wait until after the election when they are in Opposition and the Right Wing are far more likely to win the leadership.
And much of what she says is not true. People don't generally choose to live on the streets. We should not ban protests just because we disagree with the opinions being expressed. It is not the fault of the ECHR if the UK Supreme Court says we are not allowed to send asylum seekers to Africa.
Braverman was the Bully XL of politics and it was long overdue for her to be defanged.
I had already said in the last thread this wouldn't change the polls. But that doesn't mean it was not worth doing in its own right.
She was right to spot the way homeless cities arise, and warn about it, her language was offensively wrong. AFAIK she did not explicitly call for protests to be banned?
Am I the only person that actually read her Times article about protests? This is what she actually says, she actually says the opposite of "ban them", at least in this article:
"The right to protest in public is a cornerstone of democracy. That is why peaceful marches are never banned and even controversial and disruptive ones are policed rather than blocked.
Only in the most exceptional circumstances do the authorities step in. The way the law works is clear: if a chief constable believes that there is a serious risk of disorder which the police will struggle to contain, he or she can ask the home secretary to ban a march. Even then, a static protest can take place."
She goes on:
"Right-wing and nationalist protesters who engage in aggression are rightly met with a stern response yet pro-Palestinian mobs displaying almost identical behaviour are largely ignored, even when clearly breaking the law? I have spoken to serving and former police officers who have noted this double standard.
Football fans are even more vocal about the tough way they are policed as compared to politically-connected minority groups who are favoured by the left. It may be that senior officers are more concerned with how much flak they are likely to get than whether this perceived unfairness alienates the majority. The government has a duty to take a broader view.
If the march goes ahead this weekend, the public will expect to see an assertive and proactive approach to any displays of hate, breaches of conditions and general disorder."
The whole point is a call for even-handed policing. And after what I saw on Saturday, I would say she has been vindicated, the police were far tougher on the 300 footie hoons than on the 30,000 dodgy types in the 300,000 Pro-Pal march; they were admirably calm, they were not even-handed
The ECHR is outdated junk and we should leave it if it prevents us policing our borders properly
Don't let Leon see that. He is convinced only 3 bumpkins and a scrofulous dog called Bobby wanted Braverman sacked.
Too late. I’ve seen it
Did I ever say anything different to you? I strongly support Braverman’s stand on the Wokeness but I say - on this thread - she is “clumsy, naive, foolish, maladroit” and much else
I can see why you might sack her. But then, she is the only minister with the guts to stand up to the left and say hard but true things. That’s why she still has the support of half the Tories - as we see in this poll
Sunak has alienated all those Tories - and for what? What does he gain? Does he honestly think millions of grateful people will flock back to the Tories now she’s gone and David Duke of Brexit* has got his feet up in Chevening?
I predict the polls will not shift significantly at all, but Tory infighting will get worse. So: a net negative. That’s bad politics
*that’s mine and I demand copyright
Given they were 99% certain to lose the next election I would suggest that, if they want to drag the party back towards the centre, it would be better (for them rather than the country) to get the infighting happening now and purge the ERG types rather than wait until after the election when they are in Opposition and the Right Wing are far more likely to win the leadership.
I don't think it'd in any way be better for The Tory Party to get the infighting done now. They'd lose more heavily than necessary at the General Election (perhaps catastrophically so), and then they'd still get dragged right in opposition by people saying "told you so".
It's an interesting question whether the Tory Right will now feel it's disadvantageous to them for the party to lose the next election as heavily as possible.
What has disappointed me about Rishi is that even on a very narrow view of the laissez-faire lens by which he views the British economy, he’s done nowt.
No interest in deregulating certain bloated sectors, no actual follow through on freeports, no addressing the various rorts in the tax system.
Cameron doesn’t change that, of course. Just makes him look less stark-staring batshit than having Braverman as the default voice of today’s party.
This reshuffle must have been some time in the planning, given how extensive it is. Braverman was just the catalyst - and might anyway have been slated for removal ?
Don't let Leon see that. He is convinced only 3 bumpkins and a scrofulous dog called Bobby wanted Braverman sacked.
Too late. I’ve seen it
Did I ever say anything different to you? I strongly support Braverman’s stand on the Wokeness but I say - on this thread - she is “clumsy, naive, foolish, maladroit” and much else
I can see why you might sack her. But then, she is the only minister with the guts to stand up to the left and say hard but true things. That’s why she still has the support of half the Tories - as we see in this poll
Sunak has alienated all those Tories - and for what? What does he gain? Does he honestly think millions of grateful people will flock back to the Tories now she’s gone and David Duke of Brexit* has got his feet up in Chevening?
I predict the polls will not shift significantly at all, but Tory infighting will get worse. So: a net negative. That’s bad politics
*that’s mine and I demand copyright
Given they were 99% certain to lose the next election I would suggest that, if they want to drag the party back towards the centre, it would be better (for them rather than the country) to get the infighting happening now and purge the ERG types rather than wait until after the election when they are in Opposition and the Right Wing are far more likely to win the leadership.
I don't think it'd in any way be better for The Tory Party to get the infighting done now. They'd lose more heavily than necessary at the General Election (perhaps catastrophically so), and then they'd still get dragged right in opposition by people saying "told you so".
It's an interesting question whether the Tory Right will now feel it's disadvantageous to them for the party to lose the next election as heavily as possible.
It rather depends if the particular MP on the Tory Right is sitting on a majority of 30k or 10k.
So if the government wins the Rwanda case on Wednesday, Cameron is going to be one of the main politicians putting it into practice? I can't see that happening.
The Rwanda thing is interesting. It doesn't fit at all with the new grown up tone, as of 9 am this morning, of the top table, and is simply too vulgarian to belong to an establishment party. It is and always was populist nonsense.
The prospects: Government loses totally: Best outcome for them. Let it be quietly dropped.
Government wins but massively hedged: Second best outcome - it can happen in theory but not in practice. It limps on, but best forgotten.
Government wins comprehensively: Government then has to deliver something it has always known can't work. (Numbers; practicalities). The question will be how quickly this becomes obvious.
Don't let Leon see that. He is convinced only 3 bumpkins and a scrofulous dog called Bobby wanted Braverman sacked.
Too late. I’ve seen it
Did I ever say anything different to you? I strongly support Braverman’s stand on the Wokeness but I say - on this thread - she is “clumsy, naive, foolish, maladroit” and much else
I can see why you might sack her. But then, she is the only minister with the guts to stand up to the left and say hard but true things. That’s why she still has the support of half the Tories - as we see in this poll
Sunak has alienated all those Tories - and for what? What does he gain? Does he honestly think millions of grateful people will flock back to the Tories now she’s gone and David Duke of Brexit* has got his feet up in Chevening?
I predict the polls will not shift significantly at all, but Tory infighting will get worse. So: a net negative. That’s bad politics
*that’s mine and I demand copyright
Given they were 99% certain to lose the next election I would suggest that, if they want to drag the party back towards the centre, it would be better (for them rather than the country) to get the infighting happening now and purge the ERG types rather than wait until after the election when they are in Opposition and the Right Wing are far more likely to win the leadership.
I don't think it'd in any way be better for The Tory Party to get the infighting done now. They'd lose more heavily than necessary at the General Election (perhaps catastrophically so), and then they'd still get dragged right in opposition by people saying "told you so".
It's an interesting question whether the Tory Right will now feel it's disadvantageous to them for the party to lose the next election as heavily as possible.
It rather depends if the particular MP on the Tory Right is sitting on a majority of 30k or 10k.
What has disappointed me about Rishi is that even on a very narrow view of the laissez-faire lens by which he views the British economy, he’s done nowt.
No interest in deregulating certain bloated sectors, no actual follow through on freeports, no addressing the various rorts in the tax system.
Cameron doesn’t change that, of course. Just makes him look less stark-staring batshit than having Braverman as the default voice of today’s party.
Quite. Even within the semi-religious self-flagellation of their 'no tax cuts' policy, Sunak and Hunt could still have done a lot of beneficial work to simplify the tax system, incentivise investment, improve energy security etc. They chose not to. They're squatting in power running the clock down.
The polling on Cameron today is EXTREMELY regionally variable. Reinforces my view this is very bad news for the Lib Dems but overall good or neutral for Labour.
"By region, the appeal looks very 'blue-wall'-y....
I don't think this is about shoring up the Blue Wall having written off the Red One or anything like that. I don't think there's any deep strategy at all going on. Sunak's game is to throw rocks in the pond and job done in this regard. Who saw this play coming? Nobody. That's a 'win' for him in itself. He'll be chuffed and I'm impressed. I revise my Nowcast call on Labour overall majority from 115 to 110.
Probably about right, but value remains with NOM. 110 majority requires gaining 178 seats net.
Some ministers below cabinet rank who have said they are resigning: Jeremy Quin, paymaster general; Nick Gibb, schools minister; Neil O’Brien, a health minister; Rachel Maclean, housing minister.
So if the government wins the Rwanda case on Wednesday, Cameron is going to be one of the main politicians putting it into practice? I can't see that happening.
The Rwanda thing is interesting. It doesn't fit at all with the new grown up tone, as of 9 am this morning, of the top table, and is simply too vulgarian to belong to an establishment party. It is and always was populist nonsense.
The prospects: Government loses totally: Best outcome for them. Let it be quietly dropped.
Government wins but massively hedged: Second best outcome - it can happen in theory but not in practice. It limps on, but best forgotten.
Government wins comprehensively: Government then has to deliver something it has always known can't work. (Numbers; practicalities). The question will be how quickly this becomes obvious.
Isn't the cost per asylum seeker something like £170,000 per person? That on its own will go down with many voters like a flagon of cold vomit.
Say Sunak resigns, and the Tory party needs a caretaker to take it through the GE, who better than a previous leader?
We have an oven ready replacement for Sunak, should he not make it to the finish line.
Of course it is commonly said that despite having Conservative governments they never reverse the clock by a single second. So what better than having a PM in the Lords.
I think Sunak is essentially like Chris Patten as the Last Governor in Hong Kong after the 1995 elections.
He knows he's doomed but wants to leave with his head held high as a matter of honour, having done the right thing, and stuff the political consequences.
I get a contrary impression, that he's flailing around, desperate to find the winning move that will save the next election.
I don't think this is about shoring up the Blue Wall having written off the Red One or anything like that. I don't think there's any deep strategy at all going on. Sunak's game is to throw rocks in the pond and job done in this regard. Who saw this play coming? Nobody. That's a 'win' for him in itself. He'll be chuffed and I'm impressed. I revise my Nowcast call on Labour overall majority from 115 to 110.
Probably about right, but value remains with NOM. 110 majority requires gaining 178 seats net.
I suspect somewhere between NOM and LAB 100 majority. Maybe LAB 50 maj 😈
It's an interesting gambit, this pivot towards the old school centre-right. The more I think about it the more I think the impact on polling and electoral chances is going to be very mixed by region. I do think there is a problem brewing for the Lib Dems in the home counties here. Especially if Hunt unveils tax cuts for the higher paid this month or in spring. Look at TSE's reaction, and Topping's, and (though I appreciate not from the home counties) BigG's. The disaffected Cameroons have been looking around for some excuse to come home, and here it is.
Whereas for Labour in the North and Midlands this return to the old crew that brought austerity, stagnation and plummy accents to cabinet this must be a gift.
It's interesting to see Sunak doing precisely the opposite of what PB Tories have been advising him in recent days. He's going after the Lib Dems and the centre, and saying yah boo to the Refuk-curious. Let's see what happens to Lib Dem VI in the coming weeks as that may tell us if the blue wall gambit has succeeded.
My local party mates are all appalled.
Much sympathy with Braverman, none with Sunak....
Yeah. I’ve gone from thinking “this is amusing” to “this will have mixed results” to “this will be a disaster”
Sunak has just annoyed far more people than he’s pleased
Why?
Daily Mail:
“Gutless Rishi Sunak sacks Suella Braverman and signs the end of the Tory party in government.
She was right about hate marches. Sacking Suella is an own goal for the Tories.
“At the Cenotaph on Saturday, there was huge support for Suella among people from all walks of life. Rishi Sunak should resign. He is utterly useless.”
Sunak has ENRAGED the right. Alienating swathes of voters. Meanwhile, who is really gonna shift their vote TO the Tories because Old Etonian Dave “Brexit loser” Cameron is back as Foreign Secretary, as an unelected Lord?
Really, who? About 3 people on here. That’s it
The consensus from the various journalists etc being interviewed on R5 and TWAO was that this was a clever or canny move by Sunak. Not something heard, well, ever actually. Almost no dissenting voices.
At the risk of doxing myself as the true Spartacus even the fact that the BBC seems to like it doesn't persuade me that it is a bad idea.
Braverman was a deeply unpleasant menace who has been damaging the government almost from the day she was reappointed. Cleverly may keep similar policies but will very definitely not have the same tone as her. The government will start to sound more like a government and less like a Trump rally.
Cameron is more skilled as a politician than literally anyone in the existing cabinet (admittedly an extremely low bar). I hope he can help create a more coherent voice that has some idea of why it is there.
But Suella was totemic for Tories who want to see someone - anyone - fighting the Woke madness. Not because she’s great - she’s maladroit and foolish and needs to shape up - but because she seems to be the only one doing that. The only person with actual right wing beliefs who is - was - prepared to tell the guardian and the BBC to get stuffed
I’m not surprised the BBC is pleased
And add to that sacking - guaranteeing Tory infighting - the appointment of loser Cameron? You are unusual in your admiration. Polls show he’s deeply unpopular. Remainers hate him, many leavers scoff at him
So will this do anything good for the Tories? My bet is no. I don’t think it will shift the polls significantly, but what it will do is not good for Sunak: it exposes the huge rifts in Toryism right before the election
Oddly enough, as you're about the only poster who ever mentions 'woke', I assume that you suffer from 'woke madness' ?
An unrelated anecdote on woke (to illustrate that Leon is not the only poster who mentions it ) : at a local secondary school - which when I last visited 18 months ago was as woke as could be: 75% of the material on the walls of corridors dealt with either sexuality, gender or race (valid concerns, but surely not worthy of 75% of any school's mental effort), it turns out that some opinions are actually quite old-fashioned: when the boys' football team's bus breaks down, they simply requisition the girls' netball team's bus, and the girl's netball team doesn't play; and when the boys' sports hall is out of action, they requisition the girls' sports hall, and girls' PE is cancelled. I don't know if this is because actually the woke is just for show, or because girls are no longer a concern of woke.
It'll take more than a few years of woke to knock over something as strong and deep-rooted as the patriarchy.
I don't think this would have happened at my school 30 years ago, which made almost no show at all of cultural matters.
You know the theory about people having a certain inbuilt level of safety? And if you make them safer in some respects, they will compensate by taking more risks? Give them a seatbelt, they will drive 10mph faster; give them a cycle helmet they will jump that red light? I have a nascent theory that people have a certain inbuilt level of woke (yes I hate the word too, but you know what I mean and I will happily use a better one if one can be found). Make them woker in respect a, they will consider themselves woke and thereby not have to behave at all woke in respect b.
Not really thought it through properly but that's what it feels like to me.
So if we bring back the black & white minstrels it will 'free up' some 'woke space' that we can utilize to (eg) get more women onto the boards of big companies?
Hmmm. There's a particular chestnut that I've never yet used and here's my big chance. It's a View!
Don't let Leon see that. He is convinced only 3 bumpkins and a scrofulous dog called Bobby wanted Braverman sacked.
Too late. I’ve seen it
Did I ever say anything different to you? I strongly support Braverman’s stand on the Wokeness but I say - on this thread - she is “clumsy, naive, foolish, maladroit” and much else
I can see why you might sack her. But then, she is the only minister with the guts to stand up to the left and say hard but true things. That’s why she still has the support of half the Tories - as we see in this poll
Sunak has alienated all those Tories - and for what? What does he gain? Does he honestly think millions of grateful people will flock back to the Tories now she’s gone and David Duke of Brexit* has got his feet up in Chevening?
I predict the polls will not shift significantly at all, but Tory infighting will get worse. So: a net negative. That’s bad politics
*that’s mine and I demand copyright
Given they were 99% certain to lose the next election I would suggest that, if they want to drag the party back towards the centre, it would be better (for them rather than the country) to get the infighting happening now and purge the ERG types rather than wait until after the election when they are in Opposition and the Right Wing are far more likely to win the leadership.
I don't think it'd in any way be better for The Tory Party to get the infighting done now. They'd lose more heavily than necessary at the General Election (perhaps catastrophically so), and then they'd still get dragged right in opposition by people saying "told you so".
It's an interesting question whether the Tory Right will now feel it's disadvantageous to them for the party to lose the next election as heavily as possible.
It rather depends if the particular MP on the Tory Right is sitting on a majority of 30k or 10k.
Sue Ellen's majority is 26,086.
;-)
Yes, but on the other hand, the nowcast projection is a majority of 2,957 over Labour, with a juicy 9,000 or so Lib Dem votes for Labour to squeeze.
My missus, who doesn’t particularly follow politics, was unusually vociferous at the Cameron news when I spoke to her earlier. Entirely unbidden and pretty much verbatim:
‘Cameron?! Are they taking the fucking piss? He caused all this shit in the first place!’
Re Cameron, given his involvement in the Greensill collapse, I'm not sure he should be allowed anywhere near the levers of power.
That was a dog that didn't seem to bark in the end. For example, the huge guarantee granted somewhat injudiciously by the Scottish Government doesn't seem to have been called upon. But it wasn't Cameron's finest hour, of that there is no doubt.
His lobbying was extremely unhappy unseemly.
I agree. A serious error of judgment.
Given that (presumably) he made a lot of money, and his return to politics has not been encumbered in any way, it seems he made a very correct judgement.
I've no idea whether he made money out of it or not. I suspect he probably didn't because it didn't work but that is not the point. The point is it was an unseemly use of his influence as a former PM. It would not surprise me if his willingness to answer the call now was not unrelated to the desire that that episode should not be his final epitaph.
The polling on Cameron today is EXTREMELY regionally variable. Reinforces my view this is very bad news for the Lib Dems but overall good or neutral for Labour.
"By region, the appeal looks very 'blue-wall'-y....
And he's scoring +1 in approval from 2019 Lib Dem voters...
Well that's a loada hooey, isn't it?
It's a poll of "whether you think David Duke of Brexit will be competent as Foreign Secretary". I mean, the guy was prime minister for seven years, he's quite experienced, I'm not a huge fan, but I imagine he can pull off a ministerial visit to New Delhi without accidentally sodomising Narendra Modi with a vintage saxophone. He'll swerve that one, and do OK
Would that be enough to make me vote for the Tories in a southern marginal is an utterly different question. My guess is that it won't mean jack shit in a cack sandwich
Don't let Leon see that. He is convinced only 3 bumpkins and a scrofulous dog called Bobby wanted Braverman sacked.
Too late. I’ve seen it
Did I ever say anything different to you? I strongly support Braverman’s stand on the Wokeness but I say - on this thread - she is “clumsy, naive, foolish, maladroit” and much else
I can see why you might sack her. But then, she is the only minister with the guts to stand up to the left and say hard but true things. That’s why she still has the support of half the Tories - as we see in this poll
Sunak has alienated all those Tories - and for what? What does he gain? Does he honestly think millions of grateful people will flock back to the Tories now she’s gone and David Duke of Brexit* has got his feet up in Chevening?
I predict the polls will not shift significantly at all, but Tory infighting will get worse. So: a net negative. That’s bad politics
*that’s mine and I demand copyright
Given they were 99% certain to lose the next election I would suggest that, if they want to drag the party back towards the centre, it would be better (for them rather than the country) to get the infighting happening now and purge the ERG types rather than wait until after the election when they are in Opposition and the Right Wing are far more likely to win the leadership.
I don't think it'd in any way be better for The Tory Party to get the infighting done now. They'd lose more heavily than necessary at the General Election (perhaps catastrophically so), and then they'd still get dragged right in opposition by people saying "told you so".
It's an interesting question whether the Tory Right will now feel it's disadvantageous to them for the party to lose the next election as heavily as possible.
It rather depends if the particular MP on the Tory Right is sitting on a majority of 30k or 10k.
Sue Ellen's majority is 26,086.
;-)
Yes, but on the other hand, the nowcast projection is a majority of 2,957 over Labour, with a juicy 9,000 or so Lib Dem votes for Labour to squeeze.
Unlikely, but it would be very very funny.
Her losing and I might die from pissing myself laughing.
In a letter to the PM, science minister George Freeman says he is standing down "with a heavy heart". Freeman says "the time has come for me to focus on my health, family wellbeing and life beyond the front bench"."
I think Sunak is essentially like Chris Patten as the Last Governor in Hong Kong after the 1995 elections.
He knows he's doomed but wants to leave with his head held high as a matter of honour, having done the right thing, and stuff the political consequences.
I wouldn't have said binning HS2 was something you would agree with.
Honour and doing the right thing (i..e making the UK look like a country where projects can be done successfully) would have HS2 being worked on to completion and not cancelled in such an incompetent way.
Don't let Leon see that. He is convinced only 3 bumpkins and a scrofulous dog called Bobby wanted Braverman sacked.
Too late. I’ve seen it
Did I ever say anything different to you? I strongly support Braverman’s stand on the Wokeness but I say - on this thread - she is “clumsy, naive, foolish, maladroit” and much else
I can see why you might sack her. But then, she is the only minister with the guts to stand up to the left and say hard but true things. That’s why she still has the support of half the Tories - as we see in this poll
Sunak has alienated all those Tories - and for what? What does he gain? Does he honestly think millions of grateful people will flock back to the Tories now she’s gone and David Duke of Brexit* has got his feet up in Chevening?
I predict the polls will not shift significantly at all, but Tory infighting will get worse. So: a net negative. That’s bad politics
*that’s mine and I demand copyright
Given they were 99% certain to lose the next election I would suggest that, if they want to drag the party back towards the centre, it would be better (for them rather than the country) to get the infighting happening now and purge the ERG types rather than wait until after the election when they are in Opposition and the Right Wing are far more likely to win the leadership.
I don't think it'd in any way be better for The Tory Party to get the infighting done now. They'd lose more heavily than necessary at the General Election (perhaps catastrophically so), and then they'd still get dragged right in opposition by people saying "told you so".
It's an interesting question whether the Tory Right will now feel it's disadvantageous to them for the party to lose the next election as heavily as possible.
It rather depends if the particular MP on the Tory Right is sitting on a majority of 30k or 10k.
Sue Ellen's majority is 26,086.
;-)
Yes, but on the other hand, the nowcast projection is a majority of 2,957 over Labour, with a juicy 9,000 or so Lib Dem votes for Labour to squeeze.
Unlikely, but it would be very very funny.
Of course her personal vote would need to be taken into account ...
The next episode in this gripping political drama reveals that Sunak's strategy all along has been to get Starmer to pitch his tent on centre right ground and then dodge to the other side of him.
It's time for a change from this leaden gloomy centre right stuff. "We need a radical reshaping of our infrastructure, our relationship with Europe, dealing with climate change and a fundamental rethink of our financial policies."
As the episode ends, the big reveal is the appointment of Boris as PM to sell this positive vision to the British public who yearn for a centre left positive vision while poor Keir Starmer is left stranded on his centre right ground.
In a letter to the PM, science minister George Freeman says he is standing down "with a heavy heart". Freeman says "the time has come for me to focus on my health, family wellbeing and life beyond the front bench"."
It's an interesting gambit, this pivot towards the old school centre-right. The more I think about it the more I think the impact on polling and electoral chances is going to be very mixed by region. I do think there is a problem brewing for the Lib Dems in the home counties here. Especially if Hunt unveils tax cuts for the higher paid this month or in spring. Look at TSE's reaction, and Topping's, and (though I appreciate not from the home counties) BigG's. The disaffected Cameroons have been looking around for some excuse to come home, and here it is.
Whereas for Labour in the North and Midlands this return to the old crew that brought austerity, stagnation and plummy accents to cabinet this must be a gift.
It's interesting to see Sunak doing precisely the opposite of what PB Tories have been advising him in recent days. He's going after the Lib Dems and the centre, and saying yah boo to the Refuk-curious. Let's see what happens to Lib Dem VI in the coming weeks as that may tell us if the blue wall gambit has succeeded.
My local party mates are all appalled.
Much sympathy with Braverman, none with Sunak....
Yeah. I’ve gone from thinking “this is amusing” to “this will have mixed results” to “this will be a disaster”
Sunak has just annoyed far more people than he’s pleased
Why?
Daily Mail:
“Gutless Rishi Sunak sacks Suella Braverman and signs the end of the Tory party in government.
She was right about hate marches. Sacking Suella is an own goal for the Tories.
“At the Cenotaph on Saturday, there was huge support for Suella among people from all walks of life. Rishi Sunak should resign. He is utterly useless.”
Sunak has ENRAGED the right. Alienating swathes of voters. Meanwhile, who is really gonna shift their vote TO the Tories because Old Etonian Dave “Brexit loser” Cameron is back as Foreign Secretary, as an unelected Lord?
Really, who? About 3 people on here. That’s it
The consensus from the various journalists etc being interviewed on R5 and TWAO was that this was a clever or canny move by Sunak. Not something heard, well, ever actually. Almost no dissenting voices.
At the risk of doxing myself as the true Spartacus even the fact that the BBC seems to like it doesn't persuade me that it is a bad idea.
Braverman was a deeply unpleasant menace who has been damaging the government almost from the day she was reappointed. Cleverly may keep similar policies but will very definitely not have the same tone as her. The government will start to sound more like a government and less like a Trump rally.
Cameron is more skilled as a politician than literally anyone in the existing cabinet (admittedly an extremely low bar). I hope he can help create a more coherent voice that has some idea of why it is there.
But Suella was totemic for Tories who want to see someone - anyone - fighting the Woke madness. Not because she’s great - she’s maladroit and foolish and needs to shape up - but because she seems to be the only one doing that. The only person with actual right wing beliefs who is - was - prepared to tell the guardian and the BBC to get stuffed
I’m not surprised the BBC is pleased
And add to that sacking - guaranteeing Tory infighting - the appointment of loser Cameron? You are unusual in your admiration. Polls show he’s deeply unpopular. Remainers hate him, many leavers scoff at him
So will this do anything good for the Tories? My bet is no. I don’t think it will shift the polls significantly, but what it will do is not good for Sunak: it exposes the huge rifts in Toryism right before the election
Oddly enough, as you're about the only poster who ever mentions 'woke', I assume that you suffer from 'woke madness' ?
An unrelated anecdote on woke (to illustrate that Leon is not the only poster who mentions it ) : at a local secondary school - which when I last visited 18 months ago was as woke as could be: 75% of the material on the walls of corridors dealt with either sexuality, gender or race (valid concerns, but surely not worthy of 75% of any school's mental effort), it turns out that some opinions are actually quite old-fashioned: when the boys' football team's bus breaks down, they simply requisition the girls' netball team's bus, and the girl's netball team doesn't play; and when the boys' sports hall is out of action, they requisition the girls' sports hall, and girls' PE is cancelled. I don't know if this is because actually the woke is just for show, or because girls are no longer a concern of woke.
It'll take more than a few years of woke to knock over something as strong and deep-rooted as the patriarchy.
I don't think this would have happened at my school 30 years ago, which made almost no show at all of cultural matters.
You know the theory about people having a certain inbuilt level of safety? And if you make them safer in some respects, they will compensate by taking more risks? Give them a seatbelt, they will drive 10mph faster; give them a cycle helmet they will jump that red light? I have a nascent theory that people have a certain inbuilt level of woke (yes I hate the word too, but you know what I mean and I will happily use a better one if one can be found). Make them woker in respect a, they will consider themselves woke and thereby not have to behave at all woke in respect b.
Not really thought it through properly but that's what it feels like to me.
So if we bring back the black & white minstrels it will 'free up' some 'woke space' that we can utilize to (eg) get more women onto the boards of big companies?
Hmmm. There's a particular chestnut that I've never yet used and here's my big chance. It's a View!
Ah that felt good.
Well yes, I recognise the absurdity of that. That’s the analog of the ‘put a sharp spike in the steering wheel and people will drive REALLY carefully’ argument.
The polling on Cameron today is EXTREMELY regionally variable. Reinforces my view this is very bad news for the Lib Dems but overall good or neutral for Labour.
"By region, the appeal looks very 'blue-wall'-y....
And he's scoring +1 in approval from 2019 Lib Dem voters...
Well that's a loada hooey, isn't it?
It's a poll of "whether you think David Duke of Brexit will be competent as Foreign Secretary". I mean, the guy was prime minister for seven years, he's quite experienced, I'm not a huge fan, but I imagine he can pull off a ministerial visit to New Delhi without accidentally sodomising Narendra Modi with a vintage saxophone. He'll swerve that one, and do OK
Would that be enough to make me vote for the Tories in a southern marginal is an utterly different question. My guess is that it won't mean jack shit in a cack sandwich
Can say the same of Cleverly, though. Truss, on the other hand...
Ditching Braverman probably helps in nice southern marginals, though.
Why? I'm not taking the piss, as we all know you're a big fan of the bloke, but what is he going to do? At best, for me, he brings a little bit of sanity to the government. But even you must realise that he's a massively divisive figure. And he's still in the government that has been the worst in my lifetime.
The polling on Cameron today is EXTREMELY regionally variable. Reinforces my view this is very bad news for the Lib Dems but overall good or neutral for Labour.
"By region, the appeal looks very 'blue-wall'-y....
And he's scoring +1 in approval from 2019 Lib Dem voters...
Well that's a loada hooey, isn't it?
It's a poll of "whether you think David Duke of Brexit will be competent as Foreign Secretary". I mean, the guy was prime minister for seven years, he's quite experienced, I'm not a huge fan, but I imagine he can pull off a ministerial visit to New Delhi without accidentally sodomising Narendra Modi with a vintage saxophone. He'll swerve that one, and do OK
Would that be enough to make me vote for the Tories in a southern marginal is an utterly different question. My guess is that it won't mean jack shit in a cack sandwich
David Duke of Brexit wins post of the day. I award you your prize of a pack of 20 Marlboros.
It's an interesting gambit, this pivot towards the old school centre-right. The more I think about it the more I think the impact on polling and electoral chances is going to be very mixed by region. I do think there is a problem brewing for the Lib Dems in the home counties here. Especially if Hunt unveils tax cuts for the higher paid this month or in spring. Look at TSE's reaction, and Topping's, and (though I appreciate not from the home counties) BigG's. The disaffected Cameroons have been looking around for some excuse to come home, and here it is.
Whereas for Labour in the North and Midlands this return to the old crew that brought austerity, stagnation and plummy accents to cabinet this must be a gift.
It's interesting to see Sunak doing precisely the opposite of what PB Tories have been advising him in recent days. He's going after the Lib Dems and the centre, and saying yah boo to the Refuk-curious. Let's see what happens to Lib Dem VI in the coming weeks as that may tell us if the blue wall gambit has succeeded.
My local party mates are all appalled.
Much sympathy with Braverman, none with Sunak....
Yeah. I’ve gone from thinking “this is amusing” to “this will have mixed results” to “this will be a disaster”
Sunak has just annoyed far more people than he’s pleased
Why?
Daily Mail:
“Gutless Rishi Sunak sacks Suella Braverman and signs the end of the Tory party in government.
She was right about hate marches. Sacking Suella is an own goal for the Tories.
“At the Cenotaph on Saturday, there was huge support for Suella among people from all walks of life. Rishi Sunak should resign. He is utterly useless.”
Sunak has ENRAGED the right. Alienating swathes of voters. Meanwhile, who is really gonna shift their vote TO the Tories because Old Etonian Dave “Brexit loser” Cameron is back as Foreign Secretary, as an unelected Lord?
Really, who? About 3 people on here. That’s it
The consensus from the various journalists etc being interviewed on R5 and TWAO was that this was a clever or canny move by Sunak. Not something heard, well, ever actually. Almost no dissenting voices.
At the risk of doxing myself as the true Spartacus even the fact that the BBC seems to like it doesn't persuade me that it is a bad idea.
Braverman was a deeply unpleasant menace who has been damaging the government almost from the day she was reappointed. Cleverly may keep similar policies but will very definitely not have the same tone as her. The government will start to sound more like a government and less like a Trump rally.
Cameron is more skilled as a politician than literally anyone in the existing cabinet (admittedly an extremely low bar). I hope he can help create a more coherent voice that has some idea of why it is there.
Agree (as usual). Quite impressed with that clever move. FS is the least political job. There is often consensus on policies and Cameron will be considered a serious appointment by foreign leaders. It might lose some votes to Reform helping Labour in the red wall, but might save seats in the blue wall at a cost to the LDs. Only criticism is not being able to find someone from his own MPs
But overall a good bit of lateral thinking by Rushi. I suspect getting support from both the likes of @TheScreamingEagles and @HYUFD .
You wouldn't be up for some jury service, by any chance?
It's an interesting gambit, this pivot towards the old school centre-right. The more I think about it the more I think the impact on polling and electoral chances is going to be very mixed by region. I do think there is a problem brewing for the Lib Dems in the home counties here. Especially if Hunt unveils tax cuts for the higher paid this month or in spring. Look at TSE's reaction, and Topping's, and (though I appreciate not from the home counties) BigG's. The disaffected Cameroons have been looking around for some excuse to come home, and here it is.
Whereas for Labour in the North and Midlands this return to the old crew that brought austerity, stagnation and plummy accents to cabinet this must be a gift.
It's interesting to see Sunak doing precisely the opposite of what PB Tories have been advising him in recent days. He's going after the Lib Dems and the centre, and saying yah boo to the Refuk-curious. Let's see what happens to Lib Dem VI in the coming weeks as that may tell us if the blue wall gambit has succeeded.
My local party mates are all appalled.
Much sympathy with Braverman, none with Sunak....
Yeah. I’ve gone from thinking “this is amusing” to “this will have mixed results” to “this will be a disaster”
Sunak has just annoyed far more people than he’s pleased
Why?
Daily Mail:
“Gutless Rishi Sunak sacks Suella Braverman and signs the end of the Tory party in government.
She was right about hate marches. Sacking Suella is an own goal for the Tories.
“At the Cenotaph on Saturday, there was huge support for Suella among people from all walks of life. Rishi Sunak should resign. He is utterly useless.”
Sunak has ENRAGED the right. Alienating swathes of voters. Meanwhile, who is really gonna shift their vote TO the Tories because Old Etonian Dave “Brexit loser” Cameron is back as Foreign Secretary, as an unelected Lord?
Really, who? About 3 people on here. That’s it
The consensus from the various journalists etc being interviewed on R5 and TWAO was that this was a clever or canny move by Sunak. Not something heard, well, ever actually. Almost no dissenting voices.
At the risk of doxing myself as the true Spartacus even the fact that the BBC seems to like it doesn't persuade me that it is a bad idea.
Braverman was a deeply unpleasant menace who has been damaging the government almost from the day she was reappointed. Cleverly may keep similar policies but will very definitely not have the same tone as her. The government will start to sound more like a government and less like a Trump rally.
Cameron is more skilled as a politician than literally anyone in the existing cabinet (admittedly an extremely low bar). I hope he can help create a more coherent voice that has some idea of why it is there.
But Suella was totemic for Tories who want to see someone - anyone - fighting the Woke madness. Not because she’s great - she’s maladroit and foolish and needs to shape up - but because she seems to be the only one doing that. The only person with actual right wing beliefs who is - was - prepared to tell the guardian and the BBC to get stuffed
I’m not surprised the BBC is pleased
And add to that sacking - guaranteeing Tory infighting - the appointment of loser Cameron? You are unusual in your admiration. Polls show he’s deeply unpopular. Remainers hate him, many leavers scoff at him
So will this do anything good for the Tories? My bet is no. I don’t think it will shift the polls significantly, but what it will do is not good for Sunak: it exposes the huge rifts in Toryism right before the election
Oddly enough, as you're about the only poster who ever mentions 'woke', I assume that you suffer from 'woke madness' ?
An unrelated anecdote on woke (to illustrate that Leon is not the only poster who mentions it ) : at a local secondary school - which when I last visited 18 months ago was as woke as could be: 75% of the material on the walls of corridors dealt with either sexuality, gender or race (valid concerns, but surely not worthy of 75% of any school's mental effort), it turns out that some opinions are actually quite old-fashioned: when the boys' football team's bus breaks down, they simply requisition the girls' netball team's bus, and the girl's netball team doesn't play; and when the boys' sports hall is out of action, they requisition the girls' sports hall, and girls' PE is cancelled. I don't know if this is because actually the woke is just for show, or because girls are no longer a concern of woke.
It'll take more than a few years of woke to knock over something as strong and deep-rooted as the patriarchy.
I don't think this would have happened at my school 30 years ago, which made almost no show at all of cultural matters.
You know the theory about people having a certain inbuilt level of safety? And if you make them safer in some respects, they will compensate by taking more risks? Give them a seatbelt, they will drive 10mph faster; give them a cycle helmet they will jump that red light? I have a nascent theory that people have a certain inbuilt level of woke (yes I hate the word too, but you know what I mean and I will happily use a better one if one can be found). Make them woker in respect a, they will consider themselves woke and thereby not have to behave at all woke in respect b.
Not really thought it through properly but that's what it feels like to me.
So if we bring back the black & white minstrels it will 'free up' some 'woke space' that we can utilize to (eg) get more women onto the boards of big companies?
Hmmm. There's a particular chestnut that I've never yet used and here's my big chance. It's a View!
Ah that felt good.
Rich coming from the party that hasnt had a BAME leader and thinks women are for making the tea.
It's an interesting gambit, this pivot towards the old school centre-right. The more I think about it the more I think the impact on polling and electoral chances is going to be very mixed by region. I do think there is a problem brewing for the Lib Dems in the home counties here. Especially if Hunt unveils tax cuts for the higher paid this month or in spring. Look at TSE's reaction, and Topping's, and (though I appreciate not from the home counties) BigG's. The disaffected Cameroons have been looking around for some excuse to come home, and here it is.
Whereas for Labour in the North and Midlands this return to the old crew that brought austerity, stagnation and plummy accents to cabinet this must be a gift.
It's interesting to see Sunak doing precisely the opposite of what PB Tories have been advising him in recent days. He's going after the Lib Dems and the centre, and saying yah boo to the Refuk-curious. Let's see what happens to Lib Dem VI in the coming weeks as that may tell us if the blue wall gambit has succeeded.
My local party mates are all appalled.
Much sympathy with Braverman, none with Sunak....
Yeah. I’ve gone from thinking “this is amusing” to “this will have mixed results” to “this will be a disaster”
Sunak has just annoyed far more people than he’s pleased
Why?
Daily Mail:
“Gutless Rishi Sunak sacks Suella Braverman and signs the end of the Tory party in government.
She was right about hate marches. Sacking Suella is an own goal for the Tories.
“At the Cenotaph on Saturday, there was huge support for Suella among people from all walks of life. Rishi Sunak should resign. He is utterly useless.”
Sunak has ENRAGED the right. Alienating swathes of voters. Meanwhile, who is really gonna shift their vote TO the Tories because Old Etonian Dave “Brexit loser” Cameron is back as Foreign Secretary, as an unelected Lord?
Really, who? About 3 people on here. That’s it
The consensus from the various journalists etc being interviewed on R5 and TWAO was that this was a clever or canny move by Sunak. Not something heard, well, ever actually. Almost no dissenting voices.
At the risk of doxing myself as the true Spartacus even the fact that the BBC seems to like it doesn't persuade me that it is a bad idea.
Braverman was a deeply unpleasant menace who has been damaging the government almost from the day she was reappointed. Cleverly may keep similar policies but will very definitely not have the same tone as her. The government will start to sound more like a government and less like a Trump rally.
Cameron is more skilled as a politician than literally anyone in the existing cabinet (admittedly an extremely low bar). I hope he can help create a more coherent voice that has some idea of why it is there.
But Suella was totemic for Tories who want to see someone - anyone - fighting the Woke madness. Not because she’s great - she’s maladroit and foolish and needs to shape up - but because she seems to be the only one doing that. The only person with actual right wing beliefs who is - was - prepared to tell the guardian and the BBC to get stuffed
I’m not surprised the BBC is pleased
And add to that sacking - guaranteeing Tory infighting - the appointment of loser Cameron? You are unusual in your admiration. Polls show he’s deeply unpopular. Remainers hate him, many leavers scoff at him
So will this do anything good for the Tories? My bet is no. I don’t think it will shift the polls significantly, but what it will do is not good for Sunak: it exposes the huge rifts in Toryism right before the election
Oddly enough, as you're about the only poster who ever mentions 'woke', I assume that you suffer from 'woke madness' ?
An unrelated anecdote on woke (to illustrate that Leon is not the only poster who mentions it ) : at a local secondary school - which when I last visited 18 months ago was as woke as could be: 75% of the material on the walls of corridors dealt with either sexuality, gender or race (valid concerns, but surely not worthy of 75% of any school's mental effort), it turns out that some opinions are actually quite old-fashioned: when the boys' football team's bus breaks down, they simply requisition the girls' netball team's bus, and the girl's netball team doesn't play; and when the boys' sports hall is out of action, they requisition the girls' sports hall, and girls' PE is cancelled. I don't know if this is because actually the woke is just for show, or because girls are no longer a concern of woke.
It'll take more than a few years of woke to knock over something as strong and deep-rooted as the patriarchy.
I don't think this would have happened at my school 30 years ago, which made almost no show at all of cultural matters.
You know the theory about people having a certain inbuilt level of safety? And if you make them safer in some respects, they will compensate by taking more risks? Give them a seatbelt, they will drive 10mph faster; give them a cycle helmet they will jump that red light? I have a nascent theory that people have a certain inbuilt level of woke (yes I hate the word too, but you know what I mean and I will happily use a better one if one can be found). Make them woker in respect a, they will consider themselves woke and thereby not have to behave at all woke in respect b.
Not really thought it through properly but that's what it feels like to me.
So if we bring back the black & white minstrels it will 'free up' some 'woke space' that we can utilize to (eg) get more women onto the boards of big companies?
Hmmm. There's a particular chestnut that I've never yet used and here's my big chance. It's a View!
Ah that felt good.
Gratuitous! Exiled to Conservative Home with Suella for several days.
In a letter to the PM, science minister George Freeman says he is standing down "with a heavy heart". Freeman says "the time has come for me to focus on my health, family wellbeing and life beyond the front bench"."
The polling on Cameron today is EXTREMELY regionally variable. Reinforces my view this is very bad news for the Lib Dems but overall good or neutral for Labour.
"By region, the appeal looks very 'blue-wall'-y....
And he's scoring +1 in approval from 2019 Lib Dem voters...
Well that's a loada hooey, isn't it?
It's a poll of "whether you think David Duke of Brexit will be competent as Foreign Secretary". I mean, the guy was prime minister for seven years, he's quite experienced, I'm not a huge fan, but I imagine he can pull off a ministerial visit to New Delhi without accidentally sodomising Narendra Modi with a vintage saxophone. He'll swerve that one, and do OK
Would that be enough to make me vote for the Tories in a southern marginal is an utterly different question. My guess is that it won't mean jack shit in a cack sandwich
I hope you're right. But if the question is would it be enough to make people vote for the Tories in a Southern marginal, it does at least tell us "more so than in a Midlands seat". Like most competency questions, will he do a good job is a proxy for do you like him.
So the point is if we put aside the prospect of Tory civil war (which I'm not sure the right is geared up for at the moment, and they may be put off making Cameron their casus belli because of a lingering taboo over lese majeste), this move is probably a net positive in the blue wall and a net negative in the red.
I think Cameron’s election winning can be overplayed but nor should it be dismissed out of hand. In 2010 he did gain a significant number of seats and turn a Labour majority of 60-odd into a parliament where the Tories were just shy of a majority. He won in 2015. Yes the Scottish referendum was closer than predicted but he was still on the winning side. Brexit was his great failure.
And don't forget he won the AV referendum... Oh for those joyous days on PB in 2011 discussing the in's and out's of AV! 😂
Spokesman denies that Trump rhetoric echoes that of dictators like Hitler and Mussolini and declares that those who say it does will find "their entire existence will be crushed when President Trump returns to the White House." https://twitter.com/peterbakernyt/status/1724059038084735219
I think Sunak is essentially like Chris Patten as the Last Governor in Hong Kong after the 1995 elections.
He knows he's doomed but wants to leave with his head held high as a matter of honour, having done the right thing, and stuff the political consequences.
I wouldn't have said binning HS2 was something you would agree with.
Some ministers below cabinet rank who have said they are resigning: Jeremy Quin, paymaster general; Nick Gibb, schools minister; Neil O’Brien, a health minister; Rachel Maclean, housing minister.
Some ministers below cabinet rank who have said they are resigning: Jeremy Quin, paymaster general; Nick Gibb, schools minister; Neil O’Brien, a health minister; Rachel Maclean, housing minister.
Some ministers below cabinet rank who have said they are resigning: Jeremy Quin, paymaster general; Nick Gibb, schools minister; Neil O’Brien, a health minister; Rachel Maclean, housing minister.
Interesting that he's appointed Richard Holden as party chairman. MP for N W Durham, which includes Consett. About as red as red wall gets.
Why? I'm not taking the piss, as we all know you're a big fan of the bloke, but what is he going to do? At best, for me, he brings a little bit of sanity to the government. But even you must realise that he's a massively divisive figure. And he's still in the government that has been the worst in my lifetime.
The polling on Cameron today is EXTREMELY regionally variable. Reinforces my view this is very bad news for the Lib Dems but overall good or neutral for Labour.
"By region, the appeal looks very 'blue-wall'-y....
And he's scoring +1 in approval from 2019 Lib Dem voters...
Well that's a loada hooey, isn't it?
It's a poll of "whether you think David Duke of Brexit will be competent as Foreign Secretary". I mean, the guy was prime minister for seven years, he's quite experienced, I'm not a huge fan, but I imagine he can pull off a ministerial visit to New Delhi without accidentally sodomising Narendra Modi with a vintage saxophone. He'll swerve that one, and do OK
Would that be enough to make me vote for the Tories in a southern marginal is an utterly different question. My guess is that it won't mean jack shit in a cack sandwich
I hope you're right. But if the question is would it be enough to make people vote for the Tories in a Southern marginal, it does at least tell us "more so than in a Midlands seat". Like most competency questions, will he do a good job is a proxy for do you like him.
So the point is if we put aside the prospect of Tory civil war (which I'm not sure the right is geared up for at the moment, and they may be put off making Cameron their casus belli because of a lingering taboo over lese majeste), this move is probably a net positive in the blue wall and a net negative in the red.
The thing about the foreign secretary is that he/she is largely invisible unless they do something spectacularly and egregiously stupid. How do you make people remember Cameron is doing the job and is in the Cabinet when they have forgotten this time next week?
In a letter to the PM, science minister George Freeman says he is standing down "with a heavy heart". Freeman says "the time has come for me to focus on my health, family wellbeing and life beyond the front bench"."
I see we are are at the stage of the electoral cycle where people write obituaries of the Tory Party like they did Labour in 2019, 2015, and 2010, and the Tories previously in 2005, 2001, and 1997. And before that, the Labour Party in 1992.
In ten years time the Tory Party will be resurgent and Labour will look tired. Outside of very rare circumstances (e.g. the rise of organised Labour and the change to the franchise killing the old Liberals), which aren’t currently on the cards, the cycle is just that: a cycle.
As I've said before, the Conservatives are like cockroaches - They always survive and come back in the end...
Why? I'm not taking the piss, as we all know you're a big fan of the bloke, but what is he going to do? At best, for me, he brings a little bit of sanity to the government. But even you must realise that he's a massively divisive figure. And he's still in the government that has been the worst in my lifetime.
Presumably Dowden has to lose the title DPM? No one believed Hunt ever deferred to him, but with Cameron in there as well.
And who will be the face of the Gvt in the Lords of not the most senior Minister in the Lords, so… Cameron? I think that just became an important role.
Spokesman denies that Trump rhetoric echoes that of dictators like Hitler and Mussolini and declares that those who say it does will find "their entire existence will be crushed when President Trump returns to the White House." https://twitter.com/peterbakernyt/status/1724059038084735219
"There is freedom of speech. But, I cannot guarantee freedom after speech."
The new No.2 at the Treasury, Laura Trott, is former Cameroon, is she not ?
Laura Trott Was rather hot Or was that the cyclist? I might have forgot
Very good. I'm a fan of a clerihew. Even better would have been to have contrived a much longer and non-scanning third line.
Laura Trott Is rather hot Like Laura Trott But she's a cyclist not an aide to the new Foreign Secretary, in case you forgot
Neither of the two Lauras Trott are aides to the Foreign Secretary.
In truth, she Is more toothy Than the Olympic gold pedaler, who would seem a better choice to me At the Treasury.
Glorious. Not really a Clerihew, but very fine nonetheless.
I really admire comic verse, because I can't really do it. It strikes me as a much underrated skill, the view being if something's funny it isn't worthy. Always struck me as an odd way of valuing something.
It's an interesting gambit, this pivot towards the old school centre-right. The more I think about it the more I think the impact on polling and electoral chances is going to be very mixed by region. I do think there is a problem brewing for the Lib Dems in the home counties here. Especially if Hunt unveils tax cuts for the higher paid this month or in spring. Look at TSE's reaction, and Topping's, and (though I appreciate not from the home counties) BigG's. The disaffected Cameroons have been looking around for some excuse to come home, and here it is.
Whereas for Labour in the North and Midlands this return to the old crew that brought austerity, stagnation and plummy accents to cabinet this must be a gift.
It's interesting to see Sunak doing precisely the opposite of what PB Tories have been advising him in recent days. He's going after the Lib Dems and the centre, and saying yah boo to the Refuk-curious. Let's see what happens to Lib Dem VI in the coming weeks as that may tell us if the blue wall gambit has succeeded.
My local party mates are all appalled.
Much sympathy with Braverman, none with Sunak....
Yeah. I’ve gone from thinking “this is amusing” to “this will have mixed results” to “this will be a disaster”
Sunak has just annoyed far more people than he’s pleased
Why?
Daily Mail:
“Gutless Rishi Sunak sacks Suella Braverman and signs the end of the Tory party in government.
She was right about hate marches. Sacking Suella is an own goal for the Tories.
“At the Cenotaph on Saturday, there was huge support for Suella among people from all walks of life. Rishi Sunak should resign. He is utterly useless.”
Sunak has ENRAGED the right. Alienating swathes of voters. Meanwhile, who is really gonna shift their vote TO the Tories because Old Etonian Dave “Brexit loser” Cameron is back as Foreign Secretary, as an unelected Lord?
Really, who? About 3 people on here. That’s it
The consensus from the various journalists etc being interviewed on R5 and TWAO was that this was a clever or canny move by Sunak. Not something heard, well, ever actually. Almost no dissenting voices.
At the risk of doxing myself as the true Spartacus even the fact that the BBC seems to like it doesn't persuade me that it is a bad idea.
Braverman was a deeply unpleasant menace who has been damaging the government almost from the day she was reappointed. Cleverly may keep similar policies but will very definitely not have the same tone as her. The government will start to sound more like a government and less like a Trump rally.
Cameron is more skilled as a politician than literally anyone in the existing cabinet (admittedly an extremely low bar). I hope he can help create a more coherent voice that has some idea of why it is there.
But Suella was totemic for Tories who want to see someone - anyone - fighting the Woke madness. Not because she’s great - she’s maladroit and foolish and needs to shape up - but because she seems to be the only one doing that. The only person with actual right wing beliefs who is - was - prepared to tell the guardian and the BBC to get stuffed
I’m not surprised the BBC is pleased
And add to that sacking - guaranteeing Tory infighting - the appointment of loser Cameron? You are unusual in your admiration. Polls show he’s deeply unpopular. Remainers hate him, many leavers scoff at him
So will this do anything good for the Tories? My bet is no. I don’t think it will shift the polls significantly, but what it will do is not good for Sunak: it exposes the huge rifts in Toryism right before the election
Oddly enough, as you're about the only poster who ever mentions 'woke', I assume that you suffer from 'woke madness' ?
An unrelated anecdote on woke (to illustrate that Leon is not the only poster who mentions it ) : at a local secondary school - which when I last visited 18 months ago was as woke as could be: 75% of the material on the walls of corridors dealt with either sexuality, gender or race (valid concerns, but surely not worthy of 75% of any school's mental effort), it turns out that some opinions are actually quite old-fashioned: when the boys' football team's bus breaks down, they simply requisition the girls' netball team's bus, and the girl's netball team doesn't play; and when the boys' sports hall is out of action, they requisition the girls' sports hall, and girls' PE is cancelled. I don't know if this is because actually the woke is just for show, or because girls are no longer a concern of woke.
It'll take more than a few years of woke to knock over something as strong and deep-rooted as the patriarchy.
I don't think this would have happened at my school 30 years ago, which made almost no show at all of cultural matters.
You know the theory about people having a certain inbuilt level of safety? And if you make them safer in some respects, they will compensate by taking more risks? Give them a seatbelt, they will drive 10mph faster; give them a cycle helmet they will jump that red light? I have a nascent theory that people have a certain inbuilt level of woke (yes I hate the word too, but you know what I mean and I will happily use a better one if one can be found). Make them woker in respect a, they will consider themselves woke and thereby not have to behave at all woke in respect b.
Not really thought it through properly but that's what it feels like to me.
So if we bring back the black & white minstrels it will 'free up' some 'woke space' that we can utilize to (eg) get more women onto the boards of big companies?
Hmmm. There's a particular chestnut that I've never yet used and here's my big chance. It's a View!
Ah that felt good.
Rich coming from the party that hasnt had a BAME leader and thinks women are for making the tea.
You only need tokenism on something if you don't really believe in it.
Why? I'm not taking the piss, as we all know you're a big fan of the bloke, but what is he going to do? At best, for me, he brings a little bit of sanity to the government. But even you must realise that he's a massively divisive figure. And he's still in the government that has been the worst in my lifetime.
We need sanity, lots of it.
You need policies. And you dont have any.
You need more than policies - you need a path to and offer of a brighter future. And having killed all money on projects the Tories simply have nothing to offer except to the "I'm alright Jack" group of retired people who simply want more and more sweeties.
Comments
Any news on 30p?
Did I ever say anything different to you? I strongly support Braverman’s stand on the Wokeness but I say - on this thread - she is “clumsy, naive, foolish, maladroit” and much else
I can see why you might sack her. But then, she is the only minister with the guts to stand up to the left and say hard but true things. That’s why she still has the support of half the Tories - as we see in this poll
Sunak has alienated all those Tories - and for what? What does he gain? Does he honestly think millions of grateful people will flock back to the Tories now she’s gone and David Duke of Brexit* has got his feet up in Chevening?
I predict the polls will not shift significantly at all, but Tory infighting will get worse. So: a net negative. That’s bad politics
*that’s mine and I demand copyright
But definitely on brand in the nominative Toryism stakes.
When they polled more than 40%.
You know the theory about people having a certain inbuilt level of safety? And if you make them safer in some respects, they will compensate by taking more risks? Give them a seatbelt, they will drive 10mph faster; give them a cycle helmet they will jump that red light? I have a nascent theory that people have a certain inbuilt level of woke (yes I hate the word too, but you know what I mean and I will happily use a better one if one can be found). Make them woker in respect a, they will consider themselves woke and thereby not have to behave at all woke in respect b.
Not really thought it through properly but that's what it feels like to me.
"It would be a mistake for the Tory Right to go with Suella Braverman
When irrationality and loathing were becoming serious threats to civil order, she was raising the temperature rather than lowering it
Janet Daley"
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/11/13/the-right-should-abandon-suella-braverman-shes-a-lost-cause/
And much of what she says is not true. People don't generally choose to live on the streets. We should not ban protests just because we disagree with the opinions being expressed. It is not the fault of the ECHR if the UK Supreme Court says we are not allowed to send asylum seekers to Africa.
Braverman was the Bully XL of politics and it was long overdue for her to be defanged.
I had already said in the last thread this wouldn't change the polls. But that doesn't mean it was not worth doing in its own right.
'alert to injustice and discrimination in society, especially racism'
How about 'respectful' as a one word alternative?
https://twitter.com/BBCVickiYoung/status/1724073638389756231
Macmillan and Thatcher managed with Foreign Secretaries siting in the Lords.
Am I the only person that actually read her Times article about protests? This is what she actually says, she actually says the opposite of "ban them", at least in this article:
"The right to protest in public is a cornerstone of democracy. That is why peaceful marches are never banned and even controversial and disruptive ones are policed rather than blocked.
Only in the most exceptional circumstances do the authorities step in. The way the law works is clear: if a chief constable believes that there is a serious risk of disorder which the police will struggle to contain, he or she can ask the home secretary to ban a march. Even then, a static protest can take place."
She goes on:
"Right-wing and nationalist protesters who engage in aggression are rightly met with a stern response yet pro-Palestinian mobs displaying almost identical behaviour are largely ignored, even when clearly breaking the law? I have spoken to serving and former police officers who have noted this double standard.
Football fans are even more vocal about the tough way they are policed as compared to politically-connected minority groups who are favoured by the left. It may be that senior officers are more concerned with how much flak they are likely to get than whether this perceived unfairness alienates the majority. The government has a duty to take a broader view.
If the march goes ahead this weekend, the public will expect to see an assertive and proactive approach to any displays of hate, breaches of conditions and general disorder."
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/pro-palestine-protest-london-met-police-cbqnxbtv3
The whole point is a call for even-handed policing. And after what I saw on Saturday, I would say she has been vindicated, the police were far tougher on the 300 footie hoons than on the 30,000 dodgy types in the 300,000 Pro-Pal march; they were admirably calm, they were not even-handed
The ECHR is outdated junk and we should leave it if it prevents us policing our borders properly
No interest in deregulating certain bloated sectors, no actual follow through on freeports, no addressing the various rorts in the tax system.
Cameron doesn’t change that, of course.
Just makes him look less stark-staring batshit than having Braverman as the default voice of today’s party.
Braverman was just the catalyst - and might anyway have been slated for removal ?
Was rather hot
Or was that the cyclist?
I might have forgot
The prospects: Government loses totally: Best outcome for them. Let it be quietly dropped.
Government wins but massively hedged: Second best outcome - it can happen in theory but not in practice. It limps on, but best forgotten.
Government wins comprehensively: Government then has to deliver something it has always known can't work. (Numbers; practicalities). The question will be how quickly this becomes obvious.
;-)
"By region, the appeal looks very 'blue-wall'-y....
London: +7 (!)
Rest of South: +1
Wales: -6
North: -8
Scotland: -10
Midlands: -16"
https://x.com/Beyond_Topline/status/1724081033325191494?s=20
And he's scoring +11 in approval from 2019 Lib Dem voters...
Is rather hot
Like Laura Trott
But she's a cyclist not an aide to the new Foreign Secretary, in case you forgot
Say Sunak resigns, and the Tory party needs a caretaker to take it through the GE, who better than a previous leader?
We have an oven ready replacement for Sunak, should he not make it to the finish line.
Foreign secretary: David Cameron (not in previous cabinet, prime minister 2010 to 2016).
Home secretary: James Cleverly (previously foreign secretary).
Health secretary: Victoria Atkins (formerly financial secretary, a sub-cabinet position in the Treasury).
Secretary for environment, food and rural affairs: Steve Barclay (previously health secretary)
Chief secretary to the Treasury: Laura Trott (formerly a pensions minister).
Conservative Party chairman and minister without portfolio: Richard Holden (previously a transport minister).
Departing cabinet ministers: Suella Braverman, home secretary; Thérèse Coffey, environment secretary.
Some ministers below cabinet rank who have said they are resigning: Jeremy Quin, paymaster general; Nick Gibb, schools minister; Neil O’Brien, a health minister; Rachel Maclean, housing minister.
Hmmm. There's a particular chestnut that I've never yet used and here's my big chance. It's a View!
Ah that felt good.
Unlikely, but it would be very very funny.
‘Cameron?! Are they taking the fucking piss? He caused all this shit in the first place!’
Helluva girl.
It's a poll of "whether you think David Duke of Brexit will be competent as Foreign Secretary". I mean, the guy was prime minister for seven years, he's quite experienced, I'm not a huge fan, but I imagine he can pull off a ministerial visit to New Delhi without accidentally sodomising Narendra Modi with a vintage saxophone. He'll swerve that one, and do OK
Would that be enough to make me vote for the Tories in a southern marginal is an utterly different question. My guess is that it won't mean jack shit in a cack sandwich
In a letter to the PM, science minister George Freeman says he is standing down "with a heavy heart". Freeman says "the time has come for me to focus on my health, family wellbeing and life beyond the front bench"."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-67370421
Honour and doing the right thing (i..e making the UK look like a country where projects can be done successfully) would have HS2 being worked on to completion and not cancelled in such an incompetent way.
Quite a lot
About Laura Trott
Not that one, the other one - good spot
It's time for a change from this leaden gloomy centre right stuff.
"We need a radical reshaping of our infrastructure, our relationship with Europe, dealing with climate change and a fundamental rethink of our financial policies."
As the episode ends, the big reveal is the appointment of Boris as PM to sell this positive vision to the British public who yearn for a centre left positive vision while poor Keir Starmer is left stranded on his centre right ground.
Ditching Braverman probably helps in nice southern marginals, though.
🚨EMERGENCY POD🚨
Join us LIVE on YouTube at 4.30pm GMT today as Rory and Alastair discuss the unfolding political drama.
The emergency pod button has been pushed as David Cameron returns to Government and Suella Braverman is sacked.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MukFJRQP2VI
Is more toothy
Than the Olympic gold pedaler, who would seem a better choice to me
At the Treasury.
So the point is if we put aside the prospect of Tory civil war (which I'm not sure the right is geared up for at the moment, and they may be put off making Cameron their casus belli because of a lingering taboo over lese majeste), this move is probably a net positive in the blue wall and a net negative in the red.
Spokesman denies that Trump rhetoric echoes that of dictators like Hitler and Mussolini and declares that those who say it does will find "their entire existence will be crushed when President Trump returns to the White House."
https://twitter.com/peterbakernyt/status/1724059038084735219
And who will be the face of the Gvt in the Lords of not the most senior Minister in the Lords, so… Cameron? I think that just became an important role.
I really admire comic verse, because I can't really do it. It strikes me as a much underrated skill, the view being if something's funny it isn't worthy. Always struck me as an odd way of valuing something.