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What will the King’s speech do to rising pessimism? – politicalbetting.com

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  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,424
    LOL straight into the crowd. What an extraordinary innings, have the bowlers given up?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,034
    Win lose or draw this is the innings of the tournament
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,034
    Top score now
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,362
    kinabalu said:

    TimS said:

    felix said:

    The polls reflect much disillusionment with the current government overlaid with a marked lack of enthusiasm for the next one.

    I wonder whether the lack of enthusiasm for the next government is as much just a meme as anything grounded in fact. Approval ratings for Labour and SKS are OK, across most aspects of government. Labour polling is pretty strong.

    Is the seeming lack of enthusiasm a victim of rose tinted nostalgia about the Blair years? In my lifetime there have been only 3 proper changes of government: Callaghan to Thatcher in 1979, Major to Blair in 1997 and Brown to Cameron in 2010. There was by all accounts no great enthusiasm in 1979. In 1997 there was certainly a sense of a refreshing change on the horizon but the reporting at the time was, just like now, dominated by disappointment with the tired and fractious Tory government on its way out. Blair remained a bit unknown and unproven. And in 2010 the lack of enthusiasm for the alternative was such that the Lib Dems were polling in the mid to high 20s during the election campaign.

    So I certainly don't think the public is unusually cool towards Starmer's Labour. They seem about as enthused as they ever get, which is not much. I'd say the same of business sentiment too.
    I think there was a lot of enthusiasm in 1997. I think a lot of it was a product of how disappointing the Labour defeat in 1992 had been. After the poll tax and seeing off Thatcher, a lot of lectures expected to win in 1992, and losing was crushing. So the relief in 1997 generated a lot of enthusiasm.

    This doesn't apply this time round because Corbyn's defeat in 2019 wasn't a surprise. And I think there's also a lot less enthusiasm just because - after Brexit, Covid, Boris, Truss and the decline in living standards - Britain is feeling a bit exhausted. You might think that some Blair-style optimism would be helpful in the circumstances, but I think it would come across as detached from reality.

    So, no enthusiasm. The best Starmer can hope for is a grim determination to get a job that needs doing done, and done properly.
    Yep, this is a time for a Starmer not a Blair. As for 'no enthusiasm' that's possibly a sign of the electorate growing up a bit after the childishness of 'Boris' and Brexit. There's a new realism afoot. People no longer have their head in the clouds. They know the next few years are going to be torrid. But there's tremendous enthusiasm for the main point of the next GE, out with the Tories and in with something materially better. And maybe it will feel positively terrific when PM Starmer gets in (despite the modest grounded expectations). All is relative after all.
    Yeah, but its Starmer.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,373
    When were runners abolished in cricket?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,373
    edited November 2023

    When were runners abolished in cricket?

    2011 in international cricket. They're still allowed in other forms of the game.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,424
    I think I’m going to get sent to ConHome for a month.

    Either that or I frame this for eternity.

    From two hours ago:
  • Ghedebrav said:

    Just caught up on the gist of the speech. Wow. Pedicabs, vaping and forcing criminals to attend sentencing. Parish pump stuff. So parochial; embarrassing for country that aspires to be a global leader.

    Purely from a strategic point of view, we're approaching an election, and the government have the initiative by default - they're squandering it, and Sunak continues to be really, really bad at politics. There's no vision, no answers to the big questions. Just performative nibbling around the edges.

    "Stupid decisions for a crappy future!"
  • FPT

    Wait, hang on. I was assumed by the PB Tories that Ulez was an electoral gift.

    Surely shume mistake.

    Khan-gestion Charge :lol:
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,321
    25 needed to win, Maxwell needs 23 to reach 200. I think Cummins will continue to block so that Maxwell makes it.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,284
    ...
    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    The longer term trend on this is not so bad. People much less pessimistic than they were a year ago, and roughly similar to where they were just before Partygate broke out.

    As 1997 showed, this doesn't necessarily translate into Tory votes, in fact people may partly feel more optimistic because they expect a change of government. I think there are a few things likely to make the public less pessimistic than in 2022:

    - Inflation is now falling, albeit still high, rather than skyrocketing. Particularly noticeable in heating bills as we enter winter
    - For all that Sunak's government is a bit limp, it's not the same crazed chaos as under latter day Johnson or the Truss-Kwarteng fever dream
    - The Russia-Ukraine war was pretty terrifying when it started but is now part of the furniture

    So I don't think I agree with the header. There's a short term rise in pessimism but it's well down longer term.

    Yes, I agree

    Also, I think the nation is finally getting over Brexit. The departure of Boris has probably drawn a lot of the poison, but I also sense a genuine feeling of: it's done, like it or not, make the best of it. Clearly a lot of people, a sizeable majority, regret it - as things stand- but I doubt half of those people want to actually revisit it

    This itself removes a shadow from British politics. We are in the post-Brexit era now, with its advantages and disadvantages; turns out it wasn't the immediate sunlit uplands promised by some, but neither was it the catastrophe that broke up the UK threatened by others. Meh
    The nation is being brought back together again through a shared dislike for the current government.

    Agree that the last thing we need to is revisit the national trauma of Brexit.
    My Remoaner friends - some of them driven half crazy about it, at one point, to the point of homicidal anger- are now largely quiet. They shrug. It's done. And as it turns out it isn't quite as bad as they feared, tho it is still definitely bad

    It's now filed under: really regrettable, but oh well, like a bad relationship that is now years in the past, but you get over things
    I'm nearly there but proper closure will require a cathartic series of Portillo moments at the election next year.
    The EU swinging hard right has given quite a few of my smarter Remainer friends (who are mainly on the left) additional pause for thought
    I find that impossible to believe.
    I tend to agree. I find remainers prepared to tolerate anything up to outright Nazism on the Continent with the sublime indifference of a doting parent whose child has just crayoned a friend's wall.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    ...

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    The longer term trend on this is not so bad. People much less pessimistic than they were a year ago, and roughly similar to where they were just before Partygate broke out.

    As 1997 showed, this doesn't necessarily translate into Tory votes, in fact people may partly feel more optimistic because they expect a change of government. I think there are a few things likely to make the public less pessimistic than in 2022:

    - Inflation is now falling, albeit still high, rather than skyrocketing. Particularly noticeable in heating bills as we enter winter
    - For all that Sunak's government is a bit limp, it's not the same crazed chaos as under latter day Johnson or the Truss-Kwarteng fever dream
    - The Russia-Ukraine war was pretty terrifying when it started but is now part of the furniture

    So I don't think I agree with the header. There's a short term rise in pessimism but it's well down longer term.

    Yes, I agree

    Also, I think the nation is finally getting over Brexit. The departure of Boris has probably drawn a lot of the poison, but I also sense a genuine feeling of: it's done, like it or not, make the best of it. Clearly a lot of people, a sizeable majority, regret it - as things stand- but I doubt half of those people want to actually revisit it

    This itself removes a shadow from British politics. We are in the post-Brexit era now, with its advantages and disadvantages; turns out it wasn't the immediate sunlit uplands promised by some, but neither was it the catastrophe that broke up the UK threatened by others. Meh
    The nation is being brought back together again through a shared dislike for the current government.

    Agree that the last thing we need to is revisit the national trauma of Brexit.
    My Remoaner friends - some of them driven half crazy about it, at one point, to the point of homicidal anger- are now largely quiet. They shrug. It's done. And as it turns out it isn't quite as bad as they feared, tho it is still definitely bad

    It's now filed under: really regrettable, but oh well, like a bad relationship that is now years in the past, but you get over things
    I'm nearly there but proper closure will require a cathartic series of Portillo moments at the election next year.
    The EU swinging hard right has given quite a few of my smarter Remainer friends (who are mainly on the left) additional pause for thought
    I find that impossible to believe.
    I tend to agree. I find remainers prepared to tolerate anything up to outright Nazism on the Continent with the sublime indifference of a doting parent whose child has just crayoned a friend's wall.
    You misunderstand. I find it impossible to believe that Leon has any friends.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,373
    edited November 2023

    25 needed to win, Maxwell needs 23 to reach 200. I think Cummins will continue to block so that Maxwell makes it.

    Dropped on 33. Fairly straightforward catch.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,424
    They did it! Innings of the year, let alone the tournament from Maxwell.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,034
    Amazing. Best one day innings I've ever seen.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,871
    That is quite special. Stokes-esque
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,321

    25 needed to win, Maxwell needs 23 to reach 200. I think Cummins will continue to block so that Maxwell makes it.

    ..... though I didn't expect it to only take 6 balls. Partnership: 202. Cummins: 12 not out.
  • sarissasarissa Posts: 1,982

    Genuine question, has a Speech from the Throne ever really changed or reset a narrative?

    I’ve always found it a very Westminster bubble day really. Get Liz or Charlie dressed up to blabber about whatever the government buzzwords of the day are, send them back to the Palace while the politicians have a bit of a shouting match, nothing of great consequence is really gleaned or achieved, beyond the functions of the State being performed, which is the main reason for it (and hence why it’s important, but it’s important for the tradition and the constitutional significance, not really the political significance).

    1910 was far-reaching, a government defiant in the face of being reduced to a hung parliament and losing the popular vote.
  • Sandpit said:

    They did it! Innings of the year, let alone the tournament from Maxwell.

    Absolutely excellent from Maxwell and Cummins. They are top level cricketers who don't give up.

    Such a pity for AFG but the moment - to win and have a real chance of semi-final - was just too big for them.
  • Buffs nails.


  • Will Maxwell be fit for the rest of the tournament?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,424

    Buffs nails.


    LOL 7/2. Surely someone here got 100/1 or better?
  • Sandpit said:

    Buffs nails.


    LOL 7/2. Surely someone here got 100/1 or better?
    I would have done if I wasn’t in meetings.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,373
    edited November 2023
    "Michael Vaughan
    Former England captain on BBC Test Match Special

    This is the greatest ODI innings ever. It might be the greatest innings of any kind ever."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/cricket/66859121
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,219
    Andy_JS said:

    When were runners abolished in cricket?

    2011 in international cricket. They're still allowed in other forms of the game.
    To be encouraged at village level, as it's always hilarious...
  • Pulpstar said:

    Amazing. Best one day innings I've ever seen.

    Given the circumstances the innings by Stokes in the 2019 final was the best but this was second.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 22,824
    Nigelb said:

    Maxwell does too.
    Looking ominous.

    Maxwell?

    Have I crossed onto the cricket subthread by mistake?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,007

    kinabalu said:

    TimS said:

    felix said:

    The polls reflect much disillusionment with the current government overlaid with a marked lack of enthusiasm for the next one.

    I wonder whether the lack of enthusiasm for the next government is as much just a meme as anything grounded in fact. Approval ratings for Labour and SKS are OK, across most aspects of government. Labour polling is pretty strong.

    Is the seeming lack of enthusiasm a victim of rose tinted nostalgia about the Blair years? In my lifetime there have been only 3 proper changes of government: Callaghan to Thatcher in 1979, Major to Blair in 1997 and Brown to Cameron in 2010. There was by all accounts no great enthusiasm in 1979. In 1997 there was certainly a sense of a refreshing change on the horizon but the reporting at the time was, just like now, dominated by disappointment with the tired and fractious Tory government on its way out. Blair remained a bit unknown and unproven. And in 2010 the lack of enthusiasm for the alternative was such that the Lib Dems were polling in the mid to high 20s during the election campaign.

    So I certainly don't think the public is unusually cool towards Starmer's Labour. They seem about as enthused as they ever get, which is not much. I'd say the same of business sentiment too.
    I think there was a lot of enthusiasm in 1997. I think a lot of it was a product of how disappointing the Labour defeat in 1992 had been. After the poll tax and seeing off Thatcher, a lot of lectures expected to win in 1992, and losing was crushing. So the relief in 1997 generated a lot of enthusiasm.

    This doesn't apply this time round because Corbyn's defeat in 2019 wasn't a surprise. And I think there's also a lot less enthusiasm just because - after Brexit, Covid, Boris, Truss and the decline in living standards - Britain is feeling a bit exhausted. You might think that some Blair-style optimism would be helpful in the circumstances, but I think it would come across as detached from reality.

    So, no enthusiasm. The best Starmer can hope for is a grim determination to get a job that needs doing done, and done properly.
    Yep, this is a time for a Starmer not a Blair. As for 'no enthusiasm' that's possibly a sign of the electorate growing up a bit after the childishness of 'Boris' and Brexit. There's a new realism afoot. People no longer have their head in the clouds. They know the next few years are going to be torrid. But there's tremendous enthusiasm for the main point of the next GE, out with the Tories and in with something materially better. And maybe it will feel positively terrific when PM Starmer gets in (despite the modest grounded expectations). All is relative after all.
    Yeah, but its Starmer.
    Yes you just carry on underestimating him. I know you won't change your mind until he's got his spade in the ground and that's fair enough. We've had a run of terrible PMs after all. It's quite natural to be wary.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 22,824

    https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2023/nov/07/jailed-for-murder-i-didnt-commit-spent-seven-life-changing-years-in-prison

    This is a quite incredible story. Inevitably the vile Grayling makes an appearance as a minor villain of the piece - do people like him go into politics with the intention of making other people's lives as bad as possible in any way they can manage?

    Superb article by Simon Hattenstone.

    Lazy Met Police not being thorough to find the proof of innocence on the phone they had seized, and a vindictive or knee-jerking Secretary of State for Justice preventing compensation for a Miscarriage of Justice.

    I wonder if the Government have spent more opposing the compensation claim than the amount of compensation?
  • Sketchy Politics: mapping the next election
    The FT's UK political commentator Robert Shrimsley and deputy opinion editor Miranda Green map the political landscape and offer early analysis of the main parties' progress ahead of next year's expected general election.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPD7TKxb-zY

    Maps and politics in a 26-minute video.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,781
    Are Afghanistan getting quite decent at cricket?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,373
    edited November 2023

    Are Afghanistan getting quite decent at cricket?

    Yes.
    The sad thing that the Taliban government refuses to recognise the women’s team.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,424
    edited November 2023

    Are Afghanistan getting quite decent at cricket?

    Yes.
    The sad thing that the Taliban government refuses to recognise the women’s team.
    The Afghan women’s team all decamped to Dubai when the Taliban took over.

    Not sure if they’re claiming asylum and are about to be trying out for the UAE women’s team, or if the ICC will recognise them anyway as the Afghans, even if their own “government” don’t.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited November 2023
    Sandpit said:

    Buffs nails.


    LOL 7/2. Surely someone here got 100/1 or better?
    £40 traded on Betfair at 229/1
    600k traded 1.01 the Afghans

    I was watching at 91/7, went to get the kids from play school and forgot about it. Popped back in to my office two hours later as Maxwell hit the winning runs - incredible! They couldn’t get it off the square when I was watching
  • Are Afghanistan getting quite decent at cricket?

    Need to improve their catching a bit: cost them a couple of runs today.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,424
    isam said:

    Sandpit said:

    Buffs nails.


    LOL 7/2. Surely someone here got 100/1 or better?
    £40 traded on Betfair at 229/1
    600k traded 1.01 the Afghans

    I was watching at 91/7, went to get the kids from play school and forgot about it. Popped back in to my office two hours later as Maxwell hit the winning runs - incredible! They couldn’t get it off the square when I was watching
    Brilliant. Someone’s buying a few bottles of champagne tonight for the 230 and laying the 1.01.

    I once came up with the idea of only ever betting on 1.01, and doing it often enough to double up over a weekend of sport. Then something like this happens, a reminder that sport is sport, and anything can happen.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,739
    Ghedebrav said:

    Just caught up on the gist of the speech. Wow. Pedicabs, vaping and forcing criminals to attend sentencing. Parish pump stuff. So parochial; embarrassing for country that aspires to be a global leader.

    Purely from a strategic point of view, we're approaching an election, and the government have the initiative by default - they're squandering it, and Sunak continues to be really, really bad at politics. There's no vision, no answers to the big questions. Just performative nibbling around the edges.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCRZZC-DH7M
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,373

    Are Afghanistan getting quite decent at cricket?

    They're almost better than Bangladesh who have been playing test cricket since the year 2000, whereas Afghanistan have been playing it since only 2018.
  • Leon said:

    TimS said:

    The longer term trend on this is not so bad. People much less pessimistic than they were a year ago, and roughly similar to where they were just before Partygate broke out.

    As 1997 showed, this doesn't necessarily translate into Tory votes, in fact people may partly feel more optimistic because they expect a change of government. I think there are a few things likely to make the public less pessimistic than in 2022:

    - Inflation is now falling, albeit still high, rather than skyrocketing. Particularly noticeable in heating bills as we enter winter
    - For all that Sunak's government is a bit limp, it's not the same crazed chaos as under latter day Johnson or the Truss-Kwarteng fever dream
    - The Russia-Ukraine war was pretty terrifying when it started but is now part of the furniture

    So I don't think I agree with the header. There's a short term rise in pessimism but it's well down longer term.

    Yes, I agree

    Also, I think the nation is finally getting over Brexit. The departure of Boris has probably drawn a lot of the poison, but I also sense a genuine feeling of: it's done, like it or not, make the best of it. Clearly a lot of people, a sizeable majority, regret it - as things stand- but I doubt half of those people want to actually revisit it

    This itself removes a shadow from British politics. We are in the post-Brexit era now, with its advantages and disadvantages; turns out it wasn't the immediate sunlit uplands promised by some, but neither was it the catastrophe that broke up the UK threatened by others. Meh
    Speak for yourself Buster! Brexit is the weeping sore that will continue to infect UK politics no matter how much you wish for it to stop.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,314
    Away from the cricket:

    "Pink Floyd co-founder Roger Waters says the world doesn’t really know “what actually happened” when Hamas unleashed their unprecedented attack on Israel on Oct. 7, but he’s not convinced it wasn’t a “false flag operation.”"

    https://twitter.com/thedailybeast/status/1721880191079690397
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,424

    Away from the cricket:

    "Pink Floyd co-founder Roger Waters says the world doesn’t really know “what actually happened” when Hamas unleashed their unprecedented attack on Israel on Oct. 7, but he’s not convinced it wasn’t a “false flag operation.”"

    https://twitter.com/thedailybeast/status/1721880191079690397

    He’s sadly gone the full anti-Semite, even as he insists he hasn’t.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,373
    Andy_JS said:

    Are Afghanistan getting quite decent at cricket?

    They're almost better than Bangladesh who have been playing test cricket since the year 2000, whereas Afghanistan have been playing it since only 2018.
    A distant relative, grandchild of a cousin, when serving in Helmand, took cricket gear for the Afghans. That was about 2015, I think.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,983
    Sandpit said:

    Away from the cricket:

    "Pink Floyd co-founder Roger Waters says the world doesn’t really know “what actually happened” when Hamas unleashed their unprecedented attack on Israel on Oct. 7, but he’s not convinced it wasn’t a “false flag operation.”"

    https://twitter.com/thedailybeast/status/1721880191079690397

    He’s sadly gone the full anti-Semite, even as he insists he hasn’t.
    He's also full on Putinist on the subject of Ukraine.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,983

    Away from the cricket:

    "Pink Floyd co-founder Roger Waters says the world doesn’t really know “what actually happened” when Hamas unleashed their unprecedented attack on Israel on Oct. 7, but he’s not convinced it wasn’t a “false flag operation.”"

    https://twitter.com/thedailybeast/status/1721880191079690397

    So: the Israelis invaded, captured a whole bunch of their own people, stuffed them in tunnels in Gaza?

    It's insane anyone would think that
  • FishingFishing Posts: 4,984
    edited November 2023

    Away from the cricket:

    "Pink Floyd co-founder Roger Waters says the world doesn’t really know “what actually happened” when Hamas unleashed their unprecedented attack on Israel on Oct. 7, but he’s not convinced it wasn’t a “false flag operation.”"

    https://twitter.com/thedailybeast/status/1721880191079690397

    So the Israelis somehow convinced thousands of their worst enemies to kill more than a thousand of their own people to discredit themselves as incompetent in the light of their electorate and the civilised world?

    (All without a word getting out despite tens of thousands of people at least being involved).

    They did this to back themselves into a corner and force themselves to gamble on a risky and counter-productive invasion of a territory they voluntarily left years ago and obviously wish was at the bottom of the sea?

    I enjoyed the Dark Side of the Moon as much as the next man, but even for an anti-Semitic conspiracy theorist this is several stages beyond demented.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,424
    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Away from the cricket:

    "Pink Floyd co-founder Roger Waters says the world doesn’t really know “what actually happened” when Hamas unleashed their unprecedented attack on Israel on Oct. 7, but he’s not convinced it wasn’t a “false flag operation.”"

    https://twitter.com/thedailybeast/status/1721880191079690397

    He’s sadly gone the full anti-Semite, even as he insists he hasn’t.
    He's also full on Putinist on the subject of Ukraine.
    Yes, his Rogan interview from a few months ago was rather enlightening, and not in a good way.

    Can’t musicians just make music, and stay out of the extremes of politics?
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,839
    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Away from the cricket:

    "Pink Floyd co-founder Roger Waters says the world doesn’t really know “what actually happened” when Hamas unleashed their unprecedented attack on Israel on Oct. 7, but he’s not convinced it wasn’t a “false flag operation.”"

    https://twitter.com/thedailybeast/status/1721880191079690397

    He’s sadly gone the full anti-Semite, even as he insists he hasn’t.
    He's also full on Putinist on the subject of Ukraine.
    These wacko celebs seem to carry with them a predictable portfolio of beliefs, like they get them off the shelf from some sort of licensed purveyor of celebrity contrarianism. No doubt he has some concerns about vaccines too.
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,738

    Away from the cricket:

    "Pink Floyd co-founder Roger Waters says the world doesn’t really know “what actually happened” when Hamas unleashed their unprecedented attack on Israel on Oct. 7, but he’s not convinced it wasn’t a “false flag operation.”"

    https://twitter.com/thedailybeast/status/1721880191079690397

    Len McCluskey wondered aloud along very similar lines on the telly recently.

    That's the same Len McCluskey who would have been one of the UKs most influential men if his best bud, one Jeremy Corbyn, had entered No10. Just imagine, if you can.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited November 2023

    Away from the cricket:

    "Pink Floyd co-founder Roger Waters says the world doesn’t really know “what actually happened” when Hamas unleashed their unprecedented attack on Israel on Oct. 7, but he’s not convinced it wasn’t a “false flag operation.”"

    https://twitter.com/thedailybeast/status/1721880191079690397

    I went for a walk yesterday and listened to Waters speaking to Joe Rogan from 2022. I wanted to listen to his Desert Island Discs, but the audio was too low. So this was obviously from before the Oct 7 attack. Joe rogan is controversial too I think, i had never listened to him before

    I don’t know too much about the Israel/Palestine situation, except the basics. I knew Waters was considered an anti semite by some, and he addressed this by saying pretty much what Corbyn etc say; that they’re anti the Israeli govt not Jewish people. He described a concert he played in a multi cultural part of the area after cancelling one in Tel Aviv after BDS contacted him, and how there are segregated roads for non Jews/Christians. Apartheid worse than SA in the 80s according to him; apparent Mandela and Tutu agreed

    He said he is just anti war, not pro one side or the other; said the same for Russia vs Ukraine. I love some of his albums with Pink Floyd, and find some of his anti war songs v moving, esp ‘When the tigers Broke free’ which describes his fathers death in WW2, and like his way with words generally on all subjects, so was interested to hear his defence of the allegations.

    Seems as though he might have gone a bit far with what you’ve quoted though, or certainly he’s swimming against the media tide.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Away from the cricket:

    "Pink Floyd co-founder Roger Waters says the world doesn’t really know “what actually happened” when Hamas unleashed their unprecedented attack on Israel on Oct. 7, but he’s not convinced it wasn’t a “false flag operation.”"

    https://twitter.com/thedailybeast/status/1721880191079690397

    He’s sadly gone the full anti-Semite, even as he insists he hasn’t.
    He's also full on Putinist on the subject of Ukraine.
    Apparently he wrote to Putin asking him to stop!
  • Meanwhile, in "Boris Johnson lies" non-news,

    Lister also confirms the Cummings recollection of Johnson saying in September 2020, "Let the bodies pile high." This was, Lister says, "an unfortunate turn of phrase".

    https://twitter.com/peterwalker99/status/1721930133852807314

    🧐At the time Boris Johnson said suggestions he had made the remarks about letting bodies pile high were “total rubbish”. His official No 10 spokesman told reporters: “This is untrue and he has denied that.”

    https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1721957791437369841

  • Sandpit said:

    Away from the cricket:

    "Pink Floyd co-founder Roger Waters says the world doesn’t really know “what actually happened” when Hamas unleashed their unprecedented attack on Israel on Oct. 7, but he’s not convinced it wasn’t a “false flag operation.”"

    https://twitter.com/thedailybeast/status/1721880191079690397

    He’s sadly gone the full anti-Semite, even as he insists he hasn’t.
    He's been bitter for decades.

    Angry at Thatcher for winning the Falklands and blaming the 'High Command' for his father's death as opposed to Germany, Hitler or suchlike.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,314
    isam said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Away from the cricket:

    "Pink Floyd co-founder Roger Waters says the world doesn’t really know “what actually happened” when Hamas unleashed their unprecedented attack on Israel on Oct. 7, but he’s not convinced it wasn’t a “false flag operation.”"

    https://twitter.com/thedailybeast/status/1721880191079690397

    He’s sadly gone the full anti-Semite, even as he insists he hasn’t.
    He's also full on Putinist on the subject of Ukraine.
    Apparently he wrote to Putin asking him to stop!
    He wrote a letter telling Putin he could stop and keep Crimea, Luhansk and Donetsk, if he pinky-promised never to invade anyone again, unlike the evil Americans:

    https://www.nme.com/news/music/roger-waters-shares-open-letter-to-vladimir-putin-would-you-like-to-see-an-end-to-this-war-3317394

    Not quite the same thing...
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,314
    Off-topic:

    I know Iain M Banks and his Culture series gets mentioned on here occasionally.

    Mrs J got one of her Christmas presents delivered today (and she's opened it already):

    "This extraordinary collection celebrates the dazzling worldbuilding of Iain M. Banks, one of the most important and influential writers in modern science fiction.

    Faithfully reproduced from notebooks he kept in the 1970s and 80s, these annotated original illustrations depict the ships, habitats, geography, weapons and language of Banks' Culture series of novels in incredible detail."

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Culture-Drawings-Iain-M-Banks/dp/0356519422/

    It's quite a book.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,424

    isam said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Away from the cricket:

    "Pink Floyd co-founder Roger Waters says the world doesn’t really know “what actually happened” when Hamas unleashed their unprecedented attack on Israel on Oct. 7, but he’s not convinced it wasn’t a “false flag operation.”"

    https://twitter.com/thedailybeast/status/1721880191079690397

    He’s sadly gone the full anti-Semite, even as he insists he hasn’t.
    He's also full on Putinist on the subject of Ukraine.
    Apparently he wrote to Putin asking him to stop!
    He wrote a letter telling Putin he could stop and keep Crimea, Luhansk and Donetsk, if he pinky-promised never to invade anyone again, unlike the evil Americans:

    https://www.nme.com/news/music/roger-waters-shares-open-letter-to-vladimir-putin-would-you-like-to-see-an-end-to-this-war-3317394

    Not quite the same thing...
    Funnily enough, Ukraine disagreed with this idea.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 21,988
    I'm back in my W5 Manor.

    Couldn't be bothered going out for Thai, so table for one in the hotel restaurant.

    Trying to overhear conversations and failing.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,007

    isam said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Away from the cricket:

    "Pink Floyd co-founder Roger Waters says the world doesn’t really know “what actually happened” when Hamas unleashed their unprecedented attack on Israel on Oct. 7, but he’s not convinced it wasn’t a “false flag operation.”"

    https://twitter.com/thedailybeast/status/1721880191079690397

    He’s sadly gone the full anti-Semite, even as he insists he hasn’t.
    He's also full on Putinist on the subject of Ukraine.
    Apparently he wrote to Putin asking him to stop!
    He wrote a letter telling Putin he could stop and keep Crimea, Luhansk and Donetsk, if he pinky-promised never to invade anyone again, unlike the evil Americans:

    https://www.nme.com/news/music/roger-waters-shares-open-letter-to-vladimir-putin-would-you-like-to-see-an-end-to-this-war-3317394

    Not quite the same thing...
    It's not what you want from your rock gods.

    How I wish, how I wish ... they wouldn't do this sort of thing.
  • Sandpit said:

    Away from the cricket:

    "Pink Floyd co-founder Roger Waters says the world doesn’t really know “what actually happened” when Hamas unleashed their unprecedented attack on Israel on Oct. 7, but he’s not convinced it wasn’t a “false flag operation.”"

    https://twitter.com/thedailybeast/status/1721880191079690397

    He’s sadly gone the full anti-Semite, even as he insists he hasn’t.
    He's been bitter for decades.

    Angry at Thatcher for winning the Falklands and blaming the 'High Command' for his father's death as opposed to Germany, Hitler or suchlike.
    And blaming teachers for everything.

    "We don't need no educashun. We don't need no thought-control."

    I wonder if the rising generation of teachers would be more to his liking?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,716

    Away from the cricket:

    "Pink Floyd co-founder Roger Waters says the world doesn’t really know “what actually happened” when Hamas unleashed their unprecedented attack on Israel on Oct. 7, but he’s not convinced it wasn’t a “false flag operation.”"

    https://twitter.com/thedailybeast/status/1721880191079690397

    Gone full toxic loon.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 21,988

    Are Afghanistan getting quite decent at cricket?

    Yes.
    The sad thing that the Taliban government refuses to recognise the women’s team.
    Difficult to recognise them when they are wearing burquas.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,226

    Meanwhile, in "Boris Johnson lies" non-news,

    Lister also confirms the Cummings recollection of Johnson saying in September 2020, "Let the bodies pile high." This was, Lister says, "an unfortunate turn of phrase".

    https://twitter.com/peterwalker99/status/1721930133852807314

    🧐At the time Boris Johnson said suggestions he had made the remarks about letting bodies pile high were “total rubbish”. His official No 10 spokesman told reporters: “This is untrue and he has denied that.”

    https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1721957791437369841

    That's genuinely astonishing.

    Cummings has actually told the truth about something?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,226

    Sandpit said:

    Away from the cricket:

    "Pink Floyd co-founder Roger Waters says the world doesn’t really know “what actually happened” when Hamas unleashed their unprecedented attack on Israel on Oct. 7, but he’s not convinced it wasn’t a “false flag operation.”"

    https://twitter.com/thedailybeast/status/1721880191079690397

    He’s sadly gone the full anti-Semite, even as he insists he hasn’t.
    He's been bitter for decades.

    Angry at Thatcher for winning the Falklands and blaming the 'High Command' for his father's death as opposed to Germany, Hitler or suchlike.
    And blaming teachers for everything.

    "We don't need no educashun. We don't need no thought-control."

    I wonder if the rising generation of teachers would be more to his liking?
    Perhaps he could try them for a spell?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,226
    I've just sent British Gas an enormous bill for the errors they've made in handling my father's old account.

    It will be interesting to see what they come back with.

    Would be nice if they paid up, but would be funny if I was able to threaten them with debt collectors.
  • Nigelb said:

    Away from the cricket:

    "Pink Floyd co-founder Roger Waters says the world doesn’t really know “what actually happened” when Hamas unleashed their unprecedented attack on Israel on Oct. 7, but he’s not convinced it wasn’t a “false flag operation.”"

    https://twitter.com/thedailybeast/status/1721880191079690397

    Gone full toxic loon.
    Shame he was not born in the States. Ticks most of the boxes for Presidential candidate.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,373
    "'Wine o'clock' culture blamed for UK women being biggest boozers in world: Shock report reveals one in four get hammered each month

    Quarter of women admit having six or more alcoholic drinks on single occasion
    This is more than double the average rate of 12 per cent among the 33 countries"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-12720545/Wine-oclock-UK-women-biggest-boozers-world.html
  • ydoethur said:

    I've just sent British Gas an enormous bill for the errors they've made in handling my father's old account.

    It will be interesting to see what they come back with.

    Would be nice if they paid up, but would be funny if I was able to threaten them with debt collectors.

    Is it fewer than £5,000 pounds?
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    Sandpit said:

    Away from the cricket:

    "Pink Floyd co-founder Roger Waters says the world doesn’t really know “what actually happened” when Hamas unleashed their unprecedented attack on Israel on Oct. 7, but he’s not convinced it wasn’t a “false flag operation.”"

    https://twitter.com/thedailybeast/status/1721880191079690397

    He’s sadly gone the full anti-Semite, even as he insists he hasn’t.
    He's been bitter for decades.

    Angry at Thatcher for winning the Falklands and blaming the 'High Command' for his father's death as opposed to Germany, Hitler or suchlike.
    And blaming teachers for everything.

    "We don't need no educashun. We don't need no thought-control."

    I wonder if the rising generation of teachers would be more to his liking?
    I think you’ll find they were just one of many bricks in the wall
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,895
    Sandpit said:

    Away from the cricket:

    "Pink Floyd co-founder Roger Waters says the world doesn’t really know “what actually happened” when Hamas unleashed their unprecedented attack on Israel on Oct. 7, but he’s not convinced it wasn’t a “false flag operation.”"

    https://twitter.com/thedailybeast/status/1721880191079690397

    He’s sadly gone the full anti-Semite, even as he insists he hasn’t.
    The same Roger Waters who thought it would be fun to cosplay as an SS officer earlier this year?

    https://news.sky.com/story/pink-floyd-star-roger-waters-says-he-was-opposing-fascism-when-he-wore-nazi-inspired-uniform-12890501

    Imagine my surprise.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,226
    edited November 2023

    ydoethur said:

    I've just sent British Gas an enormous bill for the errors they've made in handling my father's old account.

    It will be interesting to see what they come back with.

    Would be nice if they paid up, but would be funny if I was able to threaten them with debt collectors.

    Is it fewer than £5,000 pounds?
    I think you mean 'less,' and of course it is. I haven't done more than 20 hours work on it so far. Who do you think I am, a banker?
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,713
    ydoethur said:

    I've just sent British Gas an enormous bill for the errors they've made in handling my father's old account.

    It will be interesting to see what they come back with.

    Would be nice if they paid up, but would be funny if I was able to threaten them with debt collectors.

    Don't count on fairness from the regulator. It's a very nasty bag of snakes.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,713
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    I've just sent British Gas an enormous bill for the errors they've made in handling my father's old account.

    It will be interesting to see what they come back with.

    Would be nice if they paid up, but would be funny if I was able to threaten them with debt collectors.

    Is it fewer than £5,000 pounds?
    I think you mean 'less,' and of course it is. I haven't done more than 20 hours work on it so far. Who do you think I am, a banker?
    Pretty easy to count to 5,000. Go off immediately to the corner and do so.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 21,893
    Andy_JS said:

    "'Wine o'clock' culture blamed for UK women being biggest boozers in world: Shock report reveals one in four get hammered each month

    Quarter of women admit having six or more alcoholic drinks on single occasion
    This is more than double the average rate of 12 per cent among the 33 countries"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-12720545/Wine-oclock-UK-women-biggest-boozers-world.html

    That's been known for quite some time, but it's so much in the background we forget how common it is. Alcohol culture is ingrained in the UK, so much it's a commonplace to be offered an alcoholic drink when entering a home. It's spread to women over the past decade or two or three, and I'm amazed by how many people are to all intents and purposes high-functioning alcoholics.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,384
    edited November 2023
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    I've just sent British Gas an enormous bill for the errors they've made in handling my father's old account.

    It will be interesting to see what they come back with.

    Would be nice if they paid up, but would be funny if I was able to threaten them with debt collectors.

    Is it fewer than £5,000 pounds?
    I think you mean 'less,' and of course it is. I haven't done more than 20 hours work on it so far. Who do you think I am, a banker?
    Fewer is a hill I am prepared to die on.

    Take them to the small claims court.
  • Nigelb said:

    Away from the cricket:

    "Pink Floyd co-founder Roger Waters says the world doesn’t really know “what actually happened” when Hamas unleashed their unprecedented attack on Israel on Oct. 7, but he’s not convinced it wasn’t a “false flag operation.”"

    https://twitter.com/thedailybeast/status/1721880191079690397

    Gone full toxic loon.
    Shame he was not born in the States. Ticks most of the boxes for Presidential candidate.
    He's also in the right age range.
  • isam said:

    Sandpit said:

    Away from the cricket:

    "Pink Floyd co-founder Roger Waters says the world doesn’t really know “what actually happened” when Hamas unleashed their unprecedented attack on Israel on Oct. 7, but he’s not convinced it wasn’t a “false flag operation.”"

    https://twitter.com/thedailybeast/status/1721880191079690397

    He’s sadly gone the full anti-Semite, even as he insists he hasn’t.
    He's been bitter for decades.

    Angry at Thatcher for winning the Falklands and blaming the 'High Command' for his father's death as opposed to Germany, Hitler or suchlike.
    And blaming teachers for everything.

    "We don't need no educashun. We don't need no thought-control."

    I wonder if the rising generation of teachers would be more to his liking?
    I think you’ll find they were just one of many bricks in the wall
    Better that than RAAC concrete.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,713

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    I've just sent British Gas an enormous bill for the errors they've made in handling my father's old account.

    It will be interesting to see what they come back with.

    Would be nice if they paid up, but would be funny if I was able to threaten them with debt collectors.

    Is it fewer than £5,000 pounds?
    I think you mean 'less,' and of course it is. I haven't done more than 20 hours work on it so far. Who do you think I am, a banker?
    Fewer is a hill I am prepared to die on.

    Take them to the small claims court.
    He's standing in a corner, he can't hear you.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,621
    edited November 2023
    Omnium said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    I've just sent British Gas an enormous bill for the errors they've made in handling my father's old account.

    It will be interesting to see what they come back with.

    Would be nice if they paid up, but would be funny if I was able to threaten them with debt collectors.

    Is it fewer than £5,000 pounds?
    I think you mean 'less,' and of course it is. I haven't done more than 20 hours work on it so far. Who do you think I am, a banker?
    Pretty easy to count to 5,000. Go off immediately to the corner and do so.
    £ε, £2ε, £3ε ...

    Could take a while.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 21,893

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    I've just sent British Gas an enormous bill for the errors they've made in handling my father's old account.

    It will be interesting to see what they come back with.

    Would be nice if they paid up, but would be funny if I was able to threaten them with debt collectors.

    Is it fewer than £5,000 pounds?
    I think you mean 'less,' and of course it is. I haven't done more than 20 hours work on it so far. Who do you think I am, a banker?
    Fewer is a hill I am prepared to die on.

    Take them to the small claims court.
    Is that a claims court in a small building, or a court for small claims?
  • ydoethur said:

    Meanwhile, in "Boris Johnson lies" non-news,

    Lister also confirms the Cummings recollection of Johnson saying in September 2020, "Let the bodies pile high." This was, Lister says, "an unfortunate turn of phrase".

    https://twitter.com/peterwalker99/status/1721930133852807314

    🧐At the time Boris Johnson said suggestions he had made the remarks about letting bodies pile high were “total rubbish”. His official No 10 spokesman told reporters: “This is untrue and he has denied that.”

    https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1721957791437369841

    That's genuinely astonishing.

    Cummings has actually told the truth about something?
    I suspect that Domski has the same attitude to truth as BoJo.

    Say stuff that is convenient at the time, pretty much independent of its truth.

    It's actually more annoying than people who lie all the time- at least with them, you know what to do. See the "guards of the Sapphire City" puzzles, where you ask a guard what the other guard would say.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,007

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    I've just sent British Gas an enormous bill for the errors they've made in handling my father's old account.

    It will be interesting to see what they come back with.

    Would be nice if they paid up, but would be funny if I was able to threaten them with debt collectors.

    Is it fewer than £5,000 pounds?
    I think you mean 'less,' and of course it is. I haven't done more than 20 hours work on it so far. Who do you think I am, a banker?
    Fewer is a hill I am prepared to die on.

    Take them to the small claims court.
    That's a great route. I'm 3 from 3 there.
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860
    viewcode said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "'Wine o'clock' culture blamed for UK women being biggest boozers in world: Shock report reveals one in four get hammered each month

    Quarter of women admit having six or more alcoholic drinks on single occasion
    This is more than double the average rate of 12 per cent among the 33 countries"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-12720545/Wine-oclock-UK-women-biggest-boozers-world.html

    That's been known for quite some time, but it's so much in the background we forget how common it is. Alcohol culture is ingrained in the UK, so much it's a commonplace to be offered an alcoholic drink when entering a home. It's spread to women over the past decade or two or three, and I'm amazed by how many people are to all intents and purposes high-functioning alcoholics.
    Drinking heavily once a month and alcoholic are quite different things.

    We do drink a fair amount in the UK but aiui we're a fair bit lower than in the mid-2000s, which was the high point (or low point, depending on your POV).
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860
    rcs1000 said:

    Away from the cricket:

    "Pink Floyd co-founder Roger Waters says the world doesn’t really know “what actually happened” when Hamas unleashed their unprecedented attack on Israel on Oct. 7, but he’s not convinced it wasn’t a “false flag operation.”"

    https://twitter.com/thedailybeast/status/1721880191079690397

    So: the Israelis invaded, captured a whole bunch of their own people, stuffed them in tunnels in Gaza?

    It's insane anyone would think that
    On the other hand, Dave Gilmour is by all accounts a lovely man.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,713
    Ghedebrav said:

    viewcode said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "'Wine o'clock' culture blamed for UK women being biggest boozers in world: Shock report reveals one in four get hammered each month

    Quarter of women admit having six or more alcoholic drinks on single occasion
    This is more than double the average rate of 12 per cent among the 33 countries"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-12720545/Wine-oclock-UK-women-biggest-boozers-world.html

    That's been known for quite some time, but it's so much in the background we forget how common it is. Alcohol culture is ingrained in the UK, so much it's a commonplace to be offered an alcoholic drink when entering a home. It's spread to women over the past decade or two or three, and I'm amazed by how many people are to all intents and purposes high-functioning alcoholics.
    Drinking heavily once a month and alcoholic are quite different things.

    We do drink a fair amount in the UK but aiui we're a fair bit lower than in the mid-2000s, which was the high point (or low point, depending on your POV).
    Having a day off once a month and not being an alcoholic is entirely the same thing. Hic!
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,007
    viewcode said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "'Wine o'clock' culture blamed for UK women being biggest boozers in world: Shock report reveals one in four get hammered each month

    Quarter of women admit having six or more alcoholic drinks on single occasion
    This is more than double the average rate of 12 per cent among the 33 countries"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-12720545/Wine-oclock-UK-women-biggest-boozers-world.html

    That's been known for quite some time, but it's so much in the background we forget how common it is. Alcohol culture is ingrained in the UK, so much it's a commonplace to be offered an alcoholic drink when entering a home. It's spread to women over the past decade or two or three, and I'm amazed by how many people are to all intents and purposes high-functioning alcoholics.
    Yep I was a high functioning alcoholic for many years, followed by several as a low functioning one. Cured now. Age cured me.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,314
    Ghedebrav said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Away from the cricket:

    "Pink Floyd co-founder Roger Waters says the world doesn’t really know “what actually happened” when Hamas unleashed their unprecedented attack on Israel on Oct. 7, but he’s not convinced it wasn’t a “false flag operation.”"

    https://twitter.com/thedailybeast/status/1721880191079690397

    So: the Israelis invaded, captured a whole bunch of their own people, stuffed them in tunnels in Gaza?

    It's insane anyone would think that
    On the other hand, Dave Gilmour is by all accounts a lovely man.
    I'm not really into Pink Floyd, but I can forgive David Gilmour anything for the favour he did the world in helping Kate Bush's career. :)
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 21,893
    edited November 2023

    ydoethur said:

    Meanwhile, in "Boris Johnson lies" non-news,

    Lister also confirms the Cummings recollection of Johnson saying in September 2020, "Let the bodies pile high." This was, Lister says, "an unfortunate turn of phrase".

    https://twitter.com/peterwalker99/status/1721930133852807314

    🧐At the time Boris Johnson said suggestions he had made the remarks about letting bodies pile high were “total rubbish”. His official No 10 spokesman told reporters: “This is untrue and he has denied that.”

    https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1721957791437369841

    That's genuinely astonishing.

    Cummings has actually told the truth about something?
    I suspect that Domski has the same attitude to truth as BoJo.

    Say stuff that is convenient at the time, pretty much independent of its truth.

    It's actually more annoying than people who lie all the time- at least with them, you know what to do. See the "guards of the Sapphire City" puzzles, where you ask a guard what the other guard would say.
    I think it was also in "Death to the Daleks", a mid-70s four parter with Pertwee and Sarah Jane and... goshdarn it's on iPlayer! (scampers off)
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,212
    isam said:

    Away from the cricket:

    "Pink Floyd co-founder Roger Waters says the world doesn’t really know “what actually happened” when Hamas unleashed their unprecedented attack on Israel on Oct. 7, but he’s not convinced it wasn’t a “false flag operation.”"

    https://twitter.com/thedailybeast/status/1721880191079690397

    I went for a walk yesterday and listened to Waters speaking to Joe Rogan from 2022. I wanted to listen to his Desert Island Discs, but the audio was too low. So this was obviously from before the Oct 7 attack. Joe rogan is controversial too I think, i had never listened to him before

    I don’t know too much about the Israel/Palestine situation, except the basics. I knew Waters was considered an anti semite by some, and he addressed this by saying pretty much what Corbyn etc say; that they’re anti the Israeli govt not Jewish people. He described a concert he played in a multi cultural part of the area after cancelling one in Tel Aviv after BDS contacted him, and how there are segregated roads for non Jews/Christians. Apartheid worse than SA in the 80s according to him; apparent Mandela and Tutu agreed

    He said he is just anti war, not pro one side or the other; said the same for Russia vs Ukraine. I love some of his albums with Pink Floyd, and find some of his anti war songs v moving, esp ‘When the tigers Broke free’ which describes his fathers death in WW2, and like his way with words generally on all subjects, so was interested to hear his defence of the allegations.

    Seems as though he might have gone a bit far with what you’ve quoted though, or certainly he’s swimming against the media tide.
    He’s a mad Jew-Hater (Israel are as bad as the Nazis, sticking up an inflatable pig with a Star of David at a concert, wearing an SS uniform), and a shill for Putin.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,266
    edited November 2023
    Ghedebrav said:

    viewcode said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "'Wine o'clock' culture blamed for UK women being biggest boozers in world: Shock report reveals one in four get hammered each month

    Quarter of women admit having six or more alcoholic drinks on single occasion
    This is more than double the average rate of 12 per cent among the 33 countries"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-12720545/Wine-oclock-UK-women-biggest-boozers-world.html

    That's been known for quite some time, but it's so much in the background we forget how common it is. Alcohol culture is ingrained in the UK, so much it's a commonplace to be offered an alcoholic drink when entering a home. It's spread to women over the past decade or two or three, and I'm amazed by how many people are to all intents and purposes high-functioning alcoholics.
    Drinking heavily once a month and alcoholic are quite different things.

    We do drink a fair amount in the UK but aiui we're a fair bit lower than in the mid-2000s, which was the high point (or low point, depending on your POV).
    We’re also pretty much in the middle range internationally when it comes to per capita consumption.

    Rates of alcohol consumption have been falling pretty much since 2005.

    The younger generation are especially alcohol averse and six drinks could be one bottle of wine. Hardly Oliver Reed.

    Problem drinking appears to have risen as guidelines were halved. It used to be 28 units a week. It was reduced to 14 units a week.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,007
    viewcode said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    I've just sent British Gas an enormous bill for the errors they've made in handling my father's old account.

    It will be interesting to see what they come back with.

    Would be nice if they paid up, but would be funny if I was able to threaten them with debt collectors.

    Is it fewer than £5,000 pounds?
    I think you mean 'less,' and of course it is. I haven't done more than 20 hours work on it so far. Who do you think I am, a banker?
    Fewer is a hill I am prepared to die on.

    Take them to the small claims court.
    Is that a claims court in a small building, or a court for small claims?
    It's a claims court in a small building. You have to sit there all scrunched up.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,983
    On the subject of Roger Waters, I've stayed at his place down near Winchester.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 21,893
    kinabalu said:

    viewcode said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    I've just sent British Gas an enormous bill for the errors they've made in handling my father's old account.

    It will be interesting to see what they come back with.

    Would be nice if they paid up, but would be funny if I was able to threaten them with debt collectors.

    Is it fewer than £5,000 pounds?
    I think you mean 'less,' and of course it is. I haven't done more than 20 hours work on it so far. Who do you think I am, a banker?
    Fewer is a hill I am prepared to die on.

    Take them to the small claims court.
    Is that a claims court in a small building, or a court for small claims?
    It's a claims court in a small building. You have to sit there all scrunched up.
    Best answer of the day! 😃
  • (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    14m
    We are now being governed by children. This is the British Home Secretary and the head of the nation’s largest police force. If Rowley and Braverman are incapable of publicly getting on the same page they should both go. And btw, where is the Prime Minister in all this.


    ====

    Where indeed? Reading the latest paper from MIT on AI security?
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,713
    rcs1000 said:

    On the subject of Roger Waters, I've stayed at his place down near Winchester.

    Nice of you to say, but I'm sure we all now have ways to scan for bed bugs.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,373
    viewcode said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "'Wine o'clock' culture blamed for UK women being biggest boozers in world: Shock report reveals one in four get hammered each month

    Quarter of women admit having six or more alcoholic drinks on single occasion
    This is more than double the average rate of 12 per cent among the 33 countries"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-12720545/Wine-oclock-UK-women-biggest-boozers-world.html

    That's been known for quite some time, but it's so much in the background we forget how common it is. Alcohol culture is ingrained in the UK, so much it's a commonplace to be offered an alcoholic drink when entering a home. It's spread to women over the past decade or two or three, and I'm amazed by how many people are to all intents and purposes high-functioning alcoholics.
    I notice it more since I gave up drinking about 18 months ago.
  • If there's a riot at the weekend the Met chief is gone.

    Huge call.
  • Leon said:

    TimS said:

    The longer term trend on this is not so bad. People much less pessimistic than they were a year ago, and roughly similar to where they were just before Partygate broke out.

    As 1997 showed, this doesn't necessarily translate into Tory votes, in fact people may partly feel more optimistic because they expect a change of government. I think there are a few things likely to make the public less pessimistic than in 2022:

    - Inflation is now falling, albeit still high, rather than skyrocketing. Particularly noticeable in heating bills as we enter winter
    - For all that Sunak's government is a bit limp, it's not the same crazed chaos as under latter day Johnson or the Truss-Kwarteng fever dream
    - The Russia-Ukraine war was pretty terrifying when it started but is now part of the furniture

    So I don't think I agree with the header. There's a short term rise in pessimism but it's well down longer term.

    Yes, I agree

    Also, I think the nation is finally getting over Brexit. The departure of Boris has probably drawn a lot of the poison, but I also sense a genuine feeling of: it's done, like it or not, make the best of it. Clearly a lot of people, a sizeable majority, regret it - as things stand- but I doubt half of those people want to actually revisit it

    This itself removes a shadow from British politics. We are in the post-Brexit era now, with its advantages and disadvantages; turns out it wasn't the immediate sunlit uplands promised by some, but neither was it the catastrophe that broke up the UK threatened by others. Meh
    Speak for yourself Buster! Brexit is the weeping sore that will continue to infect UK politics no matter how much you wish for it to stop.
    Brexit is like having a baby, that grows up to be Jimmy Saville.
  • Andy_JS said:

    viewcode said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "'Wine o'clock' culture blamed for UK women being biggest boozers in world: Shock report reveals one in four get hammered each month

    Quarter of women admit having six or more alcoholic drinks on single occasion
    This is more than double the average rate of 12 per cent among the 33 countries"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-12720545/Wine-oclock-UK-women-biggest-boozers-world.html

    That's been known for quite some time, but it's so much in the background we forget how common it is. Alcohol culture is ingrained in the UK, so much it's a commonplace to be offered an alcoholic drink when entering a home. It's spread to women over the past decade or two or three, and I'm amazed by how many people are to all intents and purposes high-functioning alcoholics.
    I notice it more since I gave up drinking about 18 months ago.
    There's nothing like giving up booze for finding out our culture is saturated in alcohol.

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,226

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    I've just sent British Gas an enormous bill for the errors they've made in handling my father's old account.

    It will be interesting to see what they come back with.

    Would be nice if they paid up, but would be funny if I was able to threaten them with debt collectors.

    Is it fewer than £5,000 pounds?
    I think you mean 'less,' and of course it is. I haven't done more than 20 hours work on it so far. Who do you think I am, a banker?
    Fewer is a hill I am prepared to die on.

    Take them to the small claims court.
    Leaving aside your decision to self-immolate, thanks an interesting idea. I shall consider it if they don't pay up.
    Omnium said:

    ydoethur said:

    I've just sent British Gas an enormous bill for the errors they've made in handling my father's old account.

    It will be interesting to see what they come back with.

    Would be nice if they paid up, but would be funny if I was able to threaten them with debt collectors.

    Don't count on fairness from the regulator. It's a very nasty bag of snakes.
    Having dealt for years with the DfE I'm genuinely shocked at that thought.

    Apparently though complaints to them are up 84% year on year.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-67307080

    If my experience of British Gas is typical, I'm not bloody surprised.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,226

    (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    14m
    We are now being governed by children. This is the British Home Secretary and the head of the nation’s largest police force. If Rowley and Braverman are incapable of publicly getting on the same page they should both go. And btw, where is the Prime Minister in all this.


    ====

    Where indeed? Reading the latest paper from MIT on AI security?

    That's an outrageous thing to say.

    I've worked with many children with complex behavioural problems and never met one as repellant and ignorant as Suella Braverman.
This discussion has been closed.