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Just how large Khan’s lead would be without ULEZ? – politicalbetting.com

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  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 19,153
    The DUP are trying to convince everyone that they will not return to power-sharing this side of another election.

    https://www.rte.ie/news/ulster/2023/1107/1415123-kings-speech-ni/

    Everyone have Sunak a lot of credit for the Windsor Framework at the time, but it has failed to fix the political impasse. What now?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,083

    Why would this restriction on cigarettes have any impact on the majority of people who don't smoke?
    Someone will have to make good the lost tax revenue?
  • isamisam Posts: 41,220
    edited November 2023

    Ange has been entirely consistent. Arteta is a manchild.

    Ange seems like a good guy, but it’s easy to be gregarious when you’ve not had any bad decisions against you, not to mention he had the biggest ever VAR mess ever up go his way.

    What slightly disappointed me about him is that he never called the disallowed Liverpool goal out as the shocker it was - I think for the VAR discourse to be less toxic, and for standards to improve, those who profit from the errors should acknowledge them. As it is, they say “the refs have got a difficult job” when they get the decision, but rant when they get legged over

    Newcastle have had two outrageous penalties awarded recently, but Eddie Howe never says they were lucky, none of them do - it’s as if they think by doing so they might get fewer decisions in future. The only one I can think of who called out a decision they got in their favour was Erling Haaland, for Nathan Ake’s goal for City vs Fulham

  • TimS said:

    Whereas turn it on its head and it is a very sensible idea. By turn on its head I mean the underlying documents and data are the thing - like the credit card on Apple Pay or the airline boarding pass in Apple Wallet and we each have a single convenient card, or app, that links to all the ID information we need including passport data. Just scan your smartphone at the border when arriving in a new country and that immediately shares your visa status, or number of days in Schengen in last 180.

    Government can then access the aggregate anonymised data to help with public policy and planning of services.
    The point is that the ONLY task of the card is verification, but a failure of that verification should not lock you out of everything. If the card is the access-key to obtaining a service then any failure locks you out of that service.

    If the proposal for the card had been an alternative to having to offer a passport and utility bill then everything would have been fine. Card failure would simply result in you having to use other methods, but at least you would not be denied access to all sorts of systems / benefits.

    There was even talk at one point of using this thing as a cash card, having all your medical data on it, etc. Anyone who hacked the system would have everything.

    It was the stupidest idea ever, which is probably why they will try again to implement it.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,707
    HYUFD said:

    More for Rishi, the King will be there still whoever wins the next election and appoint the next PM, Rishi probably won't unless some dramatic changes
    Indeed and with time running out. He seems to be pinning his hopes on locking up criminals for longer. Let's see if that moves the dial.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022

    The point is that the ONLY task of the card is verification, but a failure of that verification should not lock you out of everything. If the card is the access-key to obtaining a service then any failure locks you out of that service.

    If the proposal for the card had been an alternative to having to offer a passport and utility bill then everything would have been fine. Card failure would simply result in you having to use other methods, but at least you would not be denied access to all sorts of systems / benefits.

    There was even talk at one point of using this thing as a cash card, having all your medical data on it, etc. Anyone who hacked the system would have everything.

    It was the stupidest idea ever, which is probably why they will try again to implement it.
    Central bank digital currencies, coming soon…
  • On other Kings Speech minutiae, I note that the Lord Chancellor did the backwards walk down the throne stairs, which I thought had gone out of fashion. Wore the full wig, too.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 13,616
    IanB2 said:

    Someone will have to make good the lost tax revenue?
    I meant in terms of identity cards.
  • https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/nov/07/westminster-is-rife-with-entitlement-syndrome-during-covid-it-cost-lives

    An interesting perspective from Justine Greening, with which I feel a great deal of sympathy.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 19,153
    Sandpit said:

    Central bank digital currencies, coming soon…
    Those actually sound like they will be done properly, providing an alternative for online transactions that frees everyone from the VISA/MasterCard duopoly.
  • The DUP are trying to convince everyone that they will not return to power-sharing this side of another election.

    https://www.rte.ie/news/ulster/2023/1107/1415123-kings-speech-ni/

    Everyone have Sunak a lot of credit for the Windsor Framework at the time, but it has failed to fix the political impasse. What now?

    New government in Westminster might just be the thing that unlocks it. Sometimes new personalities and a feeling of a new era can help. I certainly think that was the case for the GFA, as much as Major laid a lot of the groundwork for it.
  • Leon said:

    Yes, it is absolutely our fault. And we have to fix it. Unfortunately, it means these poor dogs have to die and/or go extinct in the UK, which is a criminal shame

    Once the ban is in place HMG must really pursue the dog breeders, with vehemence
    I am glad you have recognised that point. The problem is the breeders and, in not a few cases, the owners. One of the reasons the Police like the DDA is that it gives them an excuse to go into the houses of people they know are wrong-uns but have not got enough proof of anything else to justify entry. That should suggest exactly the type of people who tend to own these dogs (but not all) and what they are like.

    There is also a practical reason why organisations are against banning the breed and the DDA which it is like whack-a-mole. You ban one breed, another comes up and then there is another outcry. It doesn't deal with the problem at source. If you want a parallel with which you can no doubt empathise, it is like trying to add new drugs to the prohibited list - all that happens is another one is introduced which is legal because it is not prescribed but which could be just, or more, dangerous.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 38,050
    @chriscurtis94

    Hard to think of four words that better sum this government up than "Many words. Minimal action."

    @TomLarkinSky
    👑 That King's Speech contained:

    1. The most words in a monarch's speech since 2005.
    2. The fewest Bills in a monarch's speech since 2014.

    Many words. Minimal action.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 13,616

    New government in Westminster might just be the thing that unlocks it. Sometimes new personalities and a feeling of a new era can help. I certainly think that was the case for the GFA, as much as Major laid a lot of the groundwork for it.
    If the DUP loses seats at the general election, that might herald a change in their approach.
  • @Andy_JS on previous:

    "Is the Gaza Health Ministry a reliable source of information?"

    Human Rights Watch stated that after three decades working in Gaza and conducting its own investigation, it considers Gaza Health Ministry's totals to be reliable.

    The United Nations humanitarian office added they use the Gaza Ministry of Health's death totals because they are "clearly sourced".

    The US Department of State cites the Gaza Health Ministry's death tolls in its own internal reports.


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_Israel–Hamas_war#Death_toll
  • TimSTimS Posts: 14,838
    kinabalu said:

    Indeed and with time running out. He seems to be pinning his hopes on locking up criminals for longer. Let's see if that moves the dial.
    Sentencing as a solution to crime is the weird preoccupation both the Tories and Labour in their last period in office kept coming back to. I've never understood the appeal of it.

    The solution to crime is both prevention in its widest sense (everything from home security to drugs counselling to controlling access to weapons), and effective policing. Once you're at the sentencing stage you've already failed.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,585
    Scott_xP said:

    @chriscurtis94

    Hard to think of four words that better sum this government up than "Many words. Minimal action."

    @TomLarkinSky
    👑 That King's Speech contained:

    1. The most words in a monarch's speech since 2005.
    2. The fewest Bills in a monarch's speech since 2014.

    Many words. Minimal action.

    1. By how many?
    2. By how many?

    I know you wont reply as its not your style, but 1 and 2 are important to the point. If it was double the length and half the bills then yes, if one more word than the previous longest and one bill shorter then not so much.
  • Scott_xP said:

    @chriscurtis94

    Hard to think of four words that better sum this government up than "Many words. Minimal action."

    @TomLarkinSky
    👑 That King's Speech contained:

    1. The most words in a monarch's speech since 2005.
    2. The fewest Bills in a monarch's speech since 2014.

    Many words. Minimal action.

    "Stupid ideas for a crappy future."
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,621

    I am glad you have recognised that point. The problem is the breeders and, in not a few cases, the owners. One of the reasons the Police like the DDA is that it gives them an excuse to go into the houses of people they know are wrong-uns but have not got enough proof of anything else to justify entry. That should suggest exactly the type of people who tend to own these dogs (but not all) and what they are like.

    There is also a practical reason why organisations are against banning the breed and the DDA which it is like whack-a-mole. You ban one breed, another comes up and then there is another outcry. It doesn't deal with the problem at source. If you want a parallel with which you can no doubt empathise, it is like trying to add new drugs to the prohibited list - all that happens is another one is introduced which is legal because it is not prescribed but which could be just, or more, dangerous.
    Lives and limbs will be saved by the ban, from the day it starts, that's all that matters right now

    Personally I would ALSO make it compulsory for all large dogs to be muzzled in public, then there is no dispute on "breed", just basic size, 30kg say

    And yes no doubt another dubious hybrid will emerge in time, and then we ban that too, eventually we can just get AI to sort it all out, with autonomous dog-killer drones floating down the streets, zapping any dodgy hound with a trillion-volt cano-cidal laser-slasher, so the dogs explode
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 34,286
    edited November 2023
    Events not necessarily developing to Australia's advantage. 4/1.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/cricket/66859121
  • TimS said:

    Sentencing as a solution to crime is the weird preoccupation both the Tories and Labour in their last period in office kept coming back to. I've never understood the appeal of it.

    The solution to crime is both prevention in its widest sense (everything from home security to drugs counselling to controlling access to weapons), and effective policing. Once you're at the sentencing stage you've already failed.
    Where are these prisoners with longer sentences going to be placed?

    The prisons are full to bursting.

    It's more wishful thinking from a desperate Sunak.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,585

    @Andy_JS on previous:

    "Is the Gaza Health Ministry a reliable source of information?"

    Human Rights Watch stated that after three decades working in Gaza and conducting its own investigation, it considers Gaza Health Ministry's totals to be reliable.

    The United Nations humanitarian office added they use the Gaza Ministry of Health's death totals because they are "clearly sourced".

    The US Department of State cites the Gaza Health Ministry's death tolls in its own internal reports.


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_Israel–Hamas_war#Death_toll

    Are Human Rights Watch an arbiter of fact? Or a well meaning pressure group?

    And citing the Hamas figures in the US State Department is not the same as accepting that they are correct.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 24,185
    Nigelb said:

    How's this chat going ?
    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/aug/11/saudi-arabia-asks-to-join-uk-italy-japan-joint-air-combat-programme-tempest-gcap
    Hmph. They're all busy building interlocking structures and cooperation schemes. Masses of bureaucracy. It's going splendidly, Minister!

    So it'll be late and cost too much. :(
  • TimSTimS Posts: 14,838

    "Stupid ideas for a crappy future."
    It's the political version of having a half hearted go at the washing up before heading for an afternoon nap.
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,953
    Leon said:

    Lives and limbs will be saved by the ban, from the day it starts, that's all that matters right now

    Personally I would ALSO make it compulsory for all large dogs to be muzzled in public, then there is no dispute on "breed", just basic size, 30kg say

    And yes no doubt another dubious hybrid will emerge in time, and then we ban that too, eventually we can just get AI to sort it all out, with autonomous dog-killer drones floating down the streets, zapping any dodgy hound with a trillion-volt cano-cidal laser-slasher, so the dogs explode
    Can the drones also zap any owner who doesn't pick up their dog's poop, while we're at it?
  • TimS said:

    Sentencing as a solution to crime is the weird preoccupation both the Tories and Labour in their last period in office kept coming back to. I've never understood the appeal of it.

    The solution to crime is both prevention in its widest sense (everything from home security to drugs counselling to controlling access to weapons), and effective policing. Once you're at the sentencing stage you've already failed.
    Anyone watching Inside Maghaberry prison series on TV?

    Powerful stuff and a shed load of problems.
  • Are Human Rights Watch an arbiter of fact? Or a well meaning pressure group?

    And citing the Hamas figures in the US State Department is not the same as accepting that they are correct.
    You forgot the UN.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 14,838

    Where are these prisoners with longer sentences going to be placed?

    The prisons are full to bursting.

    It's more wishful thinking from a desperate Sunak.
    Not so much tough on crime, as "crime? tough".
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,585

    You forgot the UN.
    Care to address the other two points?

    UN says clearly sourced? WTF? Yes, sourced from Hamas.
  • 148grss148grss Posts: 4,155

    @Andy_JS on previous:

    "Is the Gaza Health Ministry a reliable source of information?"

    Human Rights Watch stated that after three decades working in Gaza and conducting its own investigation, it considers Gaza Health Ministry's totals to be reliable.

    The United Nations humanitarian office added they use the Gaza Ministry of Health's death totals because they are "clearly sourced".

    The US Department of State cites the Gaza Health Ministry's death tolls in its own internal reports.


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_Israel–Hamas_war#Death_toll

    The Gaza Health Ministry use individual IDs provided to Gazans by the Israeli state, and is also typically the source used by many Israeli news channels (or at least the numbers used by many Israeli news match those numbers given by the Gaza Health Ministry).

    A few days ago I asked for a better source, with evidence of why it would be better than the GHM, and all I got was "GHM is Hamas, therefore cannot trust, therefore shrug"
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 34,286

    No Dennis Skinner call out.

    Part of the constitution lost.

    Corbyn ought to do it. Another failing by him. 😊
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,621
    Ten years of the Scot Nats in power in Edinburgh, and look at the state of this poll:


    New Scottish Independence poll, YouGov for Scoop 20 - 25 Oct (changes vs Scoop 9 - 13 Jun):

    No ~ 49% (nc)
    Yes ~ 40% (+1)
    Don't Know ~ 11% (nc)

    Excluding Don't Knows (/ vs 2014):
    No ~ 55% (-1 / nc)
    Yes ~ 45% (+1 / nc)


    55/45 NO/YES. It essentially has not budged in a decade: what a pointless waste of everyone's time. Scotland needs to move on now

    https://x.com/BallotBoxScot/status/1721630071373328763?s=20
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022

    Those actually sound like they will be done properly, providing an alternative for online transactions that frees everyone from the VISA/MasterCard duopoly.
    Let’s just say that the disadvantages considerably outweigh the advantages, for all the reasons of ID cards and more.

    You’re replacing a bank that you generally trust with a government you don’t trust, who can un-person you at their will (or by accident).

    See the example of the Canadian truckers de-banked by Trudeau during the pandemic, or people having their identity stolen being told that the system is right and they need to go and get new fingerprints.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,268
    edited November 2023

    The NI numbers are a disaster - worse than the NHS ids. Tons of duplicates, mistakes, bogus applications.
    Ah, ok, I didn't appreciate that.

    Thanks also to Viewcode and LostPassword for making the same point.

    But if there are 'tons of duplicates and mistakes' how do people get their pensions paid once they get to State Retirement Age?
  • sladeslade Posts: 2,158
    Does anyone know what is meant in the King's Speech by 'protecting football clubs?'
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 54,098

    Ah, ok, I didn't appreciate that.

    But if there are 'tons of duplicates and mistakes' how do people get their pensions paid once they get to State Retirement Age?
    Indeed. Sometimes the right people get the right pension. Lots of cross checking and manual intervention required.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,585
    slade said:

    Does anyone know what is meant in the King's Speech by 'protecting football clubs?'

    Against the European Super League?
  • PIRA killed 1,781* people in 30 years.

    Israel have killed 10,000 people in 30 days.

    * Lost Lives https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_Lives
  • 148grss148grss Posts: 4,155
    Leon said:

    Ten years of the Scot Nats in power in Edinburgh, and look at the state of this poll:


    New Scottish Independence poll, YouGov for Scoop 20 - 25 Oct (changes vs Scoop 9 - 13 Jun):

    No ~ 49% (nc)
    Yes ~ 40% (+1)
    Don't Know ~ 11% (nc)

    Excluding Don't Knows (/ vs 2014):
    No ~ 55% (-1 / nc)
    Yes ~ 45% (+1 / nc)


    55/45 NO/YES. It essentially has not budged in a decade: what a pointless waste of everyone's time. Scotland needs to move on now

    https://x.com/BallotBoxScot/status/1721630071373328763?s=20

    Scotland needs to move on now

    Okay - how? When you have an almost even split on something as fundamental as independence, what is the way forward? Will Westminster allow for more devolved powers? Will Westminster reduce devolved powers, or get rid of them entirely (as some Conservatives threaten)?

    If Scotland keeps voting for a Nationalist majority in Holyrood, but not for independence - they must want something the parties are promising.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,585

    PIRA killed 1,781* people in 30 years.

    Israel have killed 10,000 people in 30 days.

    * Lost Lives https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_Lives

    And still Hamas has not thought - hmm, maybe we should release those hostages? Maybe this is our fault?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,911
    TimS said:

    It's the political version of having a half hearted go at the washing up before heading for an afternoon nap.
    You get a better class of analogy on PB.
    I was just thinking about washing up.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,268
    Leon said:

    Ten years of the Scot Nats in power in Edinburgh, and look at the state of this poll:


    New Scottish Independence poll, YouGov for Scoop 20 - 25 Oct (changes vs Scoop 9 - 13 Jun):

    No ~ 49% (nc)
    Yes ~ 40% (+1)
    Don't Know ~ 11% (nc)

    Excluding Don't Knows (/ vs 2014):
    No ~ 55% (-1 / nc)
    Yes ~ 45% (+1 / nc)


    55/45 NO/YES. It essentially has not budged in a decade: what a pointless waste of everyone's time. Scotland needs to move on now

    https://x.com/BallotBoxScot/status/1721630071373328763?s=20

    You're confusing two things though surely? Support for SNP in power in Scotland ≠ Support for independence.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 34,286
    I would have been in favour of ID cards 15 years ago but now I'm a lot more sceptical about technology being misued.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 26,564
    edited November 2023
    Dura_Ace said:


    It's difficult to say with absolute precision, because it's hard to spec. them exactly the same, but I'd say Lexus and BMW are priced about the same.

    Lexus RC F Carbon £83,560.00
    BMW M4 Competition £82,520.00
    I'd say that Lexus has a better reputation than the former premium German marques. BMWs. Audis & Mercedes are the new Vauxhall Corsas.

    Lexuses (Lexi?) are seen as staid, but likely not driven by idiots.

    Just came back from town where there was a car (ironically a Lexus) and a van parked across a dropped kerb for pedestrian access to the market place, right next to an empty row of parking spaces.

    You can read "K" at one end, and "LEAR" at the other end.

    BMW further up the street parked precisely across a house driveway, between 2 rows of empty (free) parking spaces.

  • Leon said:

    Ten years of the Scot Nats in power in Edinburgh, and look at the state of this poll:


    New Scottish Independence poll, YouGov for Scoop 20 - 25 Oct (changes vs Scoop 9 - 13 Jun):

    No ~ 49% (nc)
    Yes ~ 40% (+1)
    Don't Know ~ 11% (nc)

    Excluding Don't Knows (/ vs 2014):
    No ~ 55% (-1 / nc)
    Yes ~ 45% (+1 / nc)


    55/45 NO/YES. It essentially has not budged in a decade: what a pointless waste of everyone's time. Scotland needs to move on now

    https://x.com/BallotBoxScot/status/1721630071373328763?s=20

    Great to hear what you think Scotland should do. I‘m sure Scotland will think on after hearing this.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,268

    Indeed. Sometimes the right people get the right pension. Lots of cross checking and manual intervention required.
    Tbf I should have know this really.

    We spent months getting Mrs P's State Pension sorted out because for 10 years she'd worked for a GP practice where the practice manager had submitted her NI contribution with two characters transposed in her NI number, so she appeared to have a 10 year gap in contributions. I thought NI numbers had a check digit but if so HMRC weren;t checking it.
  • 148grss148grss Posts: 4,155

    And still Hamas has not thought - hmm, maybe we should release those hostages? Maybe this is our fault?
    I mean, it depends on who you trust, but some reports are coming through that Israel is not willing to talk to Hamas about releasing the hostages; we know with the older women who were released on medical grounds that Hamas wanted to make sure they were released safely and had to talk to other Middle Eastern countries to safely release them. There are also reports that some hostages have been killed by Israeli bombing campaigns, and families of those taken hostage are protesting the government for not acting in the interests of the hostages.

    Hamas could just release the hostages into Gaza without warning - but that would likely be as much as a death sentence as killing them themselves.
  • eekeek Posts: 29,696

    Tbf I should have know this really.

    We spent months getting Mrs P's State Pension sorted out because for 10 years she'd worked for a GP practice where the practice manager had submitted her NI contribution with two characters transposed in her NI number, so she appeared to have a 10 year gap in contributions. I thought NI numbers had a check digit but if so HMRC weren;t checking it.
    NI doesn't have a checksum - NI numbers date from an era when such things weren't even thought of...
  • MattWMattW Posts: 26,564
    edited November 2023

    I am glad you have recognised that point. The problem is the breeders and, in not a few cases, the owners. One of the reasons the Police like the DDA is that it gives them an excuse to go into the houses of people they know are wrong-uns but have not got enough proof of anything else to justify entry. That should suggest exactly the type of people who tend to own these dogs (but not all) and what they are like.

    There is also a practical reason why organisations are against banning the breed and the DDA which it is like whack-a-mole. You ban one breed, another comes up and then there is another outcry. It doesn't deal with the problem at source. If you want a parallel with which you can no doubt empathise, it is like trying to add new drugs to the prohibited list - all that happens is another one is introduced which is legal because it is not prescribed but which could be just, or more, dangerous.
    If I have it correctly, it is one breed added in 32 years.

    Seems like a very slow game of whackamole.

    Off to catch up on Rishi's content-free speech.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,621
    148grss said:

    Scotland needs to move on now

    Okay - how? When you have an almost even split on something as fundamental as independence, what is the way forward? Will Westminster allow for more devolved powers? Will Westminster reduce devolved powers, or get rid of them entirely (as some Conservatives threaten)?

    If Scotland keeps voting for a Nationalist majority in Holyrood, but not for independence - they must want something the parties are promising.
    Scotland has more powers than almost any other devolved nation on earth. Their governments in Holyrood need to start using THEM to sort out Scotland's problems, Westminster is not to going to devolve further powers, and is not going to allow another Sindyref for a long time. Awareness of that should clear minds in Edinburgh

    Moreover, this is the only sensible, practical route TO independence. For ten years the SNP have tried the whining, bleating, mewling, threatening and blaming-everything-on-London technique. For a long time it worked, electorally if not constitutionally, but now it is failing on both counts, the SNP are plunging in the polls, the London govt doesn't give a fuck about Sindyref2, and there is nothing the Nats can do

    The only choice now is stop moaning, go back to basics, get re-elected as the Scottish government, then make a success of it so Scotland becomes more prosperous so the Scottish people begin to think, once again, "Yes, this could work, we can be independent"

    Do that, and let a generation pass, and Scottish indy will once again be a realistic prospect. But it requires the Nats to show a great deal of maturity, not something they have recently evinced
  • And still Hamas has not thought - hmm, maybe we should release those hostages? Maybe this is our fault?
    How many hostages have been buried under the rubble? Talk about "friendly fire".
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,487
    edited November 2023
    Leon said:

    Ten years of the Scot Nats in power in Edinburgh, and look at the state of this poll:


    New Scottish Independence poll, YouGov for Scoop 20 - 25 Oct (changes vs Scoop 9 - 13 Jun):

    No ~ 49% (nc)
    Yes ~ 40% (+1)
    Don't Know ~ 11% (nc)

    Excluding Don't Knows (/ vs 2014):
    No ~ 55% (-1 / nc)
    Yes ~ 45% (+1 / nc)


    55/45 NO/YES. It essentially has not budged in a decade: what a pointless waste of everyone's time. Scotland needs to move on now

    https://x.com/BallotBoxScot/status/1721630071373328763?s=20

    Everybody knows that Brexit has doomed the Union, just like it has destroyed the economy. Loads of the Remainers on here said so.

    So the poll is clearly wrong.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022
    eek said:

    NI doesn't have a checksum - NI numbers date from an era when such things weren't even thought of...
    Imagine all those extra digits, taking up all those extra bytes in the data storage.
  • sladeslade Posts: 2,158

    Against the European Super League?
    I have checked and I believe it is implementing a White Paper on Football Governance. It is proposed to establish a regulator for the top 5 tiers of English football to protect it's viability and inheritance. Make of that what you will.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,707
    148grss said:

    The Gaza Health Ministry use individual IDs provided to Gazans by the Israeli state, and is also typically the source used by many Israeli news channels (or at least the numbers used by many Israeli news match those numbers given by the Gaza Health Ministry).

    A few days ago I asked for a better source, with evidence of why it would be better than the GHM, and all I got was "GHM is Hamas, therefore cannot trust, therefore shrug"
    Yes it's the best source we have. Unfortunately the hospital incident has given those who wish to deny the undeniable - that thousands of innocent Palestinians inc many many children are being killed - a sliver of a fig leaf for doing so.

    Such a screw up by the media, that hospital incident. I watched the rolling news live that evening and I went to bed convinced the Israelis had bombed the hospital and killed 500 people. The next day it all unravelled and the truth was something rather different as regards culprit and scale.
  • sladeslade Posts: 2,158
    slade said:

    I have checked and I believe it is implementing a White Paper on Football Governance. It is proposed to establish a regulator for the top 5 tiers of English football to protect it's viability and inheritance. Make of that what you will.
    mea culpa - its.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,621

    Great to hear what you think Scotland should do. I‘m sure Scotland will think on after hearing this.
    Well, given that Holyrood needs the express permission of the British people, in the British parliament at Westminster, if Holyrood ever wants another indyref, then yes you should indeed care what British people outside Scotland think. We hold the keys to the indy-door. The fact you won't acknowledge this says rather a lot
  • Against the European Super League?
    Independent Football Regulator

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  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976
    148grss said:

    The Gaza Health Ministry use individual IDs provided to Gazans by the Israeli state, and is also typically the source used by many Israeli news channels (or at least the numbers used by many Israeli news match those numbers given by the Gaza Health Ministry).

    A few days ago I asked for a better source, with evidence of why it would be better than the GHM, and all I got was "GHM is Hamas, therefore cannot trust, therefore shrug"
    Are you seriously still stuck on this?

    1) You, personally, do not need to have accurate numbers. It makes absolutely no difference to you, and there is not some magic number of deaths which would push Israel from being in the right to being in the wrong.

    2) Hamas' official number is probably ballpark accurate for deaths of Gazans due to the conflict since October 7. The issues with it are a) you have no idea how many of those deaths were caused directly by Hamas (eg: misfiring rockets, deliberate attacks on fleeing human shields who'd been ordered to remain in place instead of following evacuation orders, random murder of gay people just because they can), and b) it does not break down between combatants - ie, legitimate military targets - and innocent civilians who were in the wrong place at the wrong time.

    3) All the deaths are on Hamas anyway, since they started this war and continue to deliberately place their own people in harm's way by use of civilian infrastructure for military purposes. This is, in case it needs to be repeated, a war crime.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022
    edited November 2023
    slade said:

    I have checked and I believe it is implementing a White Paper on Football Governance. It is proposed to establish a regulator for the top 5 tiers of English football to protect it's viability and inheritance. Make of that what you will.
    It’s from a February White Paper
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/64536218
    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/a-sustainable-future-reforming-club-football-governance

    The highlights are measures to stop clubs leaving the existing structure (such as Euro Super League), and greater controls on suitability of shareholders (such as Abramovich, who ended up sanctioned and forced to sell Chelsea).
  • 148grss148grss Posts: 4,155
    Leon said:

    Well, given that Holyrood needs the express permission of the British people, in the British parliament at Westminster, if Holyrood ever wants another indyref, then yes you should indeed care what British people outside Scotland think. We hold the keys to the indy-door. The fact you won't acknowledge this says rather a lot
    Do you not think that might be part of the problem, especially for people who are ScotNats? Their devolved government is always somewhat precarious because, at the end of the day, what Westminster gives it can take away.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,621
    edited November 2023
    Fishing said:

    Everybody knows that Brexit has doomed the Union, just like it has destroyed the economy. Loads of the Remainers on here said so.

    So the poll is clearly wrong.
    Yes, and let's not forget the incredible wave of YES supporting young people, about to overwhelm all the sad old dying NO voters. All those YES voting 15 year olds in 2014 will now be able to vote, and all the octogenarian NO voters will now be dead, so the YES vote will have surged past the oh
  • Fishing said:

    Everybody knows that Brexit has doomed the Union, just like it has destroyed the economy. Loads of the Remainers on here said so.

    So the poll is clearly wrong.
    Loads of Remainers said that polling would come to consistently show a majority for rejoining the EU. Lo and behold..
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976
    148grss said:

    I mean, it depends on who you trust, but some reports are coming through that Israel is not willing to talk to Hamas about releasing the hostages; we know with the older women who were released on medical grounds that Hamas wanted to make sure they were released safely and had to talk to other Middle Eastern countries to safely release them. There are also reports that some hostages have been killed by Israeli bombing campaigns, and families of those taken hostage are protesting the government for not acting in the interests of the hostages.

    Hamas could just release the hostages into Gaza without warning - but that would likely be as much as a death sentence as killing them themselves.
    Hamas is keeping Israeli hostages on humanitarian grounds.

    Amazing. Literally can't make this shit up.
  • kinabalu said:

    Yes it's the best source we have. Unfortunately the hospital incident has given those who wish to deny the undeniable - that thousands of innocent Palestinians inc many many children are being killed - a sliver of a fig leaf for doing so.

    Such a screw up by the media, that hospital incident. I watched the rolling news live that evening and I went to bed convinced the Israelis had bombed the hospital and killed 500 people. The next day it all unravelled and the truth was something rather different as regards culprit and scale.
    That’s all most of them need.
    Metaphorically of course.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,621
    148grss said:

    Do you not think that might be part of the problem, especially for people who are ScotNats? Their devolved government is always somewhat precarious because, at the end of the day, what Westminster gives it can take away.
    More clarity of purpose at Westminster solves that problem.

    NO, YOU'RE NOT GETTING ANOTHER REFERENDUM

    There, sorted

    Quebec is now further from indy than it has been in many decades, I predict the same will happen to Scotland. Indy will become a yearning aspiration, for many, but not something to actually be done, any time soon, because of all the extreme hassle and pain - so it will forever recede, just out of reach
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,707

    Great to hear what you think Scotland should do. I‘m sure Scotland will think on after hearing this.
    Shut up about Independence and spend a half century or so proving you can look after yourselves with all your devolved powers ... not tempted by that?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 34,286
    edited November 2023
    I can't believe what I'm watching with this witness at the PO inquiry. "Suspicion without proof".

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcC5qFq9Uuw
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,621
    kinabalu said:

    Shut up about Independence and spend a half century or so proving you can look after yourselves with all your devolved powers ... not tempted by that?
    I'm not trying to persuade a haggis-smeared scotch ideologue like @Theuniondivvie that this is good. His whole life is bound up with this cause

    I am describing the realpolitik of the situation
  • Leon said:

    Well, given that Holyrood needs the express permission of the British people, in the British parliament at Westminster, if Holyrood ever wants another indyref, then yes you should indeed care what British people outside Scotland think. We hold the keys to the indy-door. The fact you won't acknowledge this says rather a lot
    Who’s not acknowledging it? I’m quite happy to state that the same people who inflicted a 13 year shitberg of Toryism and Brexit on Scotland will keep electing pols who will obstruct a second Indy ref whatever the circumstances because they’re scared they’d lose it. The idea that a bunch of reactionary Spectatorites can or should be negotiated with on the issue is for the birds.
  • 148grss148grss Posts: 4,155
    Endillion said:

    Are you seriously still stuck on this?

    1) You, personally, do not need to have accurate numbers. It makes absolutely no difference to you, and there is not some magic number of deaths which would push Israel from being in the right to being in the wrong.

    2) Hamas' official number is probably ballpark accurate for deaths of Gazans due to the conflict since October 7. The issues with it are a) you have no idea how many of those deaths were caused directly by Hamas (eg: misfiring rockets, deliberate attacks on fleeing human shields who'd been ordered to remain in place instead of following evacuation orders, random murder of gay people just because they can), and b) it does not break down between combatants - ie, legitimate military targets - and innocent civilians who were in the wrong place at the wrong time.

    3) All the deaths are on Hamas anyway, since they started this war and continue to deliberately place their own people in harm's way by use of civilian infrastructure for military purposes. This is, in case it needs to be repeated, a war crime.
    I mean, I responded to someone posting about the question "Is the Gaza Health Ministry a reliable source of information?". The answer, in my mind, is "it's the best we have" and I therefore feel if anyone thinks otherwise, it is incumbent on them to say what source is better.

    The death toll discussed regarding Hamas' attack on Israel doesn't distinguish between "legitimate military targets" and civilians; indeed very little coverage was given to the attacks on "legitimate military targets" near the border fence. Should I remove ~350 from the Israeli Oct 7th death count based on this?

    On the last point we just fundamentally disagree - even if you take the position that Hamas is only motivated by pure evil and hatred, Israel had other options as a response that did not include dropping more bombs on Gaza in a week than the US dropped on Afghanistan in a year. How many dead Hamas soldiers make it okay to kill 4,000 children? I think Hamas' targeting of civilians is morally abhorrent, and it is also morally abhorrent when Israel does it too. Why do you feel the need to absolve the state of Israel for what it is doing, for what the UN is calling a potential genocide?

    https://www.un.org/unispal/document/gaza-is-running-out-of-time-un-experts-warn-demanding-a-ceasefire-to-prevent-genocide/
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 5,560

    I am glad you have recognised that point. The problem is the breeders and, in not a few cases, the owners. One of the reasons the Police like the DDA is that it gives them an excuse to go into the houses of people they know are wrong-uns but have not got enough proof of anything else to justify entry. That should suggest exactly the type of people who tend to own these dogs (but not all) and what they are like.

    There is also a practical reason why organisations are against banning the breed and the DDA which it is like whack-a-mole. You ban one breed, another comes up and then there is another outcry. It doesn't deal with the problem at source. If you want a parallel with which you can no doubt empathise, it is like trying to add new drugs to the prohibited list - all that happens is another one is introduced which is legal because it is not prescribed but which could be just, or more, dangerous.
    We need a Dangerous Dog Owners Act.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 14,291
    MattW said:

    I'd say that Lexus has a better reputation than the former premium German marques. BMWs. Audis & Mercedes are the new Vauxhall Corsas.

    The Lexus is almost certainly better built but the interiors aren't as good as the upper end of the German big 3's offerings. When I was in Doha earlier this year I took a taxi that was a Toyota Camry. I thought it was a brand new car but it had 240,000km on it. Toyota/Lexus certainly know how to do mass production and quality management.

    The Germans have some excellent cars in their ranges (M4 CSL, RS5, GT63) but also quite a lot of utter dross with an amazing amount of cheap materials and engineering shortcuts.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 19,153
    Sandpit said:

    Let’s just say that the disadvantages considerably outweigh the advantages, for all the reasons of ID cards and more.

    You’re replacing a bank that you generally trust with a government you don’t trust, who can un-person you at their will (or by accident).

    See the example of the Canadian truckers de-banked by Trudeau during the pandemic, or people having their identity stolen being told that the system is right and they need to go and get new fingerprints.
    Things might have changed since I last read anything about this, but I didn't think it was going to be centralised in that way. They were talking about an open system.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,452
    Leon said:

    Yes, and let's not forget the incredible wave of YES supporting young people, about to overwhelm all the sad old dying NO voters. All those YES voting 15 year olds in 2014 will now be able to vote, and all the octogenarian NO voters will now be dead, so the YES vote will have surged past the oh
    Relying on demographic shifts to do your work for you is so often The God That Fails.

    Twenty one years after the book was published, we’re still waiting for the Emerging Democratic Majority to emerge in the US.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,707
    Leon said:

    I'm not trying to persuade a haggis-smeared scotch ideologue like @Theuniondivvie that this is good. His whole life is bound up with this cause

    I am describing the realpolitik of the situation
    Ah well Sindy is one of those topics where I've long sussed you out, isn't it. There's no sense or logic to your position, it's a visceral dislike of uppity Scots (ie those who don't recognize the 'G' in 'GB') combined with a hefty dose of trolling.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,621

    Who’s not acknowledging it? I’m quite happy to state that the same people who inflicted a 13 year shitberg of Toryism and Brexit on Scotland will keep electing pols who will obstruct a second Indy ref whatever the circumstances because they’re scared they’d lose it. The idea that a bunch of reactionary Spectatorites can or should be negotiated with on the issue is for the birds.
    So, how are you gonna persuade the British people, via the British parliament, that they should allow Sindyref?

    Or are you just gonna sit there in your soiled and festering adult-nappy of incontinent Nat grievance, wailing for someone to do something? Coz that's what you've done so far
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,083
    Scott_xP said:

    @chriscurtis94

    Hard to think of four words that better sum this government up than "Many words. Minimal action."

    @TomLarkinSky
    👑 That King's Speech contained:

    1. The most words in a monarch's speech since 2005.
    2. The fewest Bills in a monarch's speech since 2014.

    Many words. Minimal action.

    Talk, not walk.
  • 148grss148grss Posts: 4,155
    edited November 2023
    Endillion said:

    Hamas is keeping Israeli hostages on humanitarian grounds.

    Amazing. Literally can't make this shit up.
    I mean, I wouldn't go that far. On purely cynical political grounds dead hostages are not worth anything.

    Again, you seem to have taken the position that Hamas have no political aims which they are trying to achieve via leverage and are instead just demons in human flesh, on the Earth to do evil things for evil purposes. They have motivations, they have goals. You may disagree with all of them, or only some of them, but they have them. They have released hostages - by the account of one of them they fed her and gave her medical care and, when concerned for her health, negotiated her safe release. That suggests they value the hostages in some way, no?
  • 148grss148grss Posts: 4,155
    Leon said:

    More clarity of purpose at Westminster solves that problem.

    NO, YOU'RE NOT GETTING ANOTHER REFERENDUM

    There, sorted

    Quebec is now further from indy than it has been in many decades, I predict the same will happen to Scotland. Indy will become a yearning aspiration, for many, but not something to actually be done, any time soon, because of all the extreme hassle and pain - so it will forever recede, just out of reach
    So you think a clear expression of no Independence referendum in the near future would make Scottish politics... better? When 45% of the Scottish people not only want a referendum, but want independence?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,486
    edited November 2023

    1. By how many?
    2. By how many?

    I know you wont reply as its not your style, but 1 and 2 are important to the point. If it was double the length and half the bills then yes, if one more word than the previous longest and one bill shorter then not so much.
    Some numbers on length.
    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/parliament-labour-party-prince-of-wales-b2443107.html

    And here.
    https://uk.news.yahoo.com/longest-monarch-speech-state-opening-124332487.html
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,241
    edited November 2023
    kinabalu said:

    Shut up about Independence and spend a half century or so proving you can look after yourselves with all your devolved powers ... not tempted by that?
    Once major influencer Leon pops his clogs it may not take quite so long for Westminster to soften up.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 5,560
    edited November 2023

    You're confusing two things though surely? Support for SNP in power in Scotland ≠ Support for independence.
    As the SNP has moved to the left since 2015, it has left many Independence supporters behind. This has increased since the arrangement with the Greens. So far, there is no significant independence supporting party actually arguing the economic case for independence. The SNP under Alex Salmond increased independence support from 28% to 45%. The prospect of increased prosperity in an independent Scotland will increase support for independence. Increased wokery will not, and has not.
  • Leon said:

    So, how are you gonna persuade the British people, via the British parliament, that they should allow Sindyref?

    Or are you just gonna sit there in your soiled and festering adult-nappy of incontinent Nat grievance, wailing for someone to do something? Coz that's what you've done so far
    Big ‘I AM relevant to this situation even if I’m not’ foot stamping energy.
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976
    148grss said:

    I mean, I responded to someone posting about the question "Is the Gaza Health Ministry a reliable source of information?". The answer, in my mind, is "it's the best we have" and I therefore feel if anyone thinks otherwise, it is incumbent on them to say what source is better.

    The death toll discussed regarding Hamas' attack on Israel doesn't distinguish between "legitimate military targets" and civilians; indeed very little coverage was given to the attacks on "legitimate military targets" near the border fence. Should I remove ~350 from the Israeli Oct 7th death count based on this?

    On the last point we just fundamentally disagree - even if you take the position that Hamas is only motivated by pure evil and hatred, Israel had other options as a response that did not include dropping more bombs on Gaza in a week than the US dropped on Afghanistan in a year. How many dead Hamas soldiers make it okay to kill 4,000 children? I think Hamas' targeting of civilians is morally abhorrent, and it is also morally abhorrent when Israel does it too. Why do you feel the need to absolve the state of Israel for what it is doing, for what the UN is calling a potential genocide?

    https://www.un.org/unispal/document/gaza-is-running-out-of-time-un-experts-warn-demanding-a-ceasefire-to-prevent-genocide/
    The breakdown of the Israeli death toll on October 7 between military and civilian targets has been widely reported: current tally is around 300 soldiers killed, plus I think a small number of police. Over a thousand civilians dead, in other words. Again, I can see no universe in which the exact numbers on either side should matter to you, and it is obvious in any case that it is not "okay to kill 4,000 children" based on another number being above or below a given threshold.

    On the last point: provide evidence that Israel is "targeting civilians". The IDF is the most heavily scrutinised military in the world, and in four weeks of a heavy bombing campaign, the closest anyone's come to accusing them of misconduct turned out to be caused by the other side, who then exaggerated the effects.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,204
    Andy_JS said:
    Win for the Afghans here and the final group matches are all very interesting indeed.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,833
    edited November 2023
    Scott_xP said:

    @chriscurtis94

    Hard to think of four words that better sum this government up than "Many words. Minimal action."

    @TomLarkinSky
    👑 That King's Speech contained:

    1. The most words in a monarch's speech since 2005.
    2. The fewest Bills in a monarch's speech since 2014.

    Many words. Minimal action.

    Given that government legislation tends to do nothing more than make peoples lives more complicated and miserable, this lack of legislation is surely a good thing?
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976
    148grss said:

    I mean, I wouldn't go that far. On purely cynical political grounds dead hostages are not worth anything.

    Again, you seem to have taken the position that Hamas have no political aims which they are trying to achieve via leverage and are instead just demons in human flesh, on the Earth to do evil things for evil purposes. They have motivations, they have goals. You may disagree with all of them, or only some of them, but they have them. They have released hostages - by the account of one of them they fed her and gave her medical care and, when concerned for her health, negotiated her safe release. That suggests they value the hostages in some way, no?
    No, it indicates they saw propaganda value in releasing them.

    Hamas's political aims are not a secret: they are enshrined in its charter, which you can easily find online. In summary, their main short term goal is "kill as many Jews as possible", and this can only be overwritten by its main long term goal, which is "kill enough Jews to make the rest of them go away as well".

    Until you get that idea into your head, you have no hope of understanding the current conflict.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 14,838

    As the SNP has moved to the left since 2015, it has left many Independence supporters behind. This has increased since the arrangement with the Greens. So far, there is no significant independence supporting party actually arguing the economic case for independence. The SNP under Alex Salmond increased independence support from 28% to 45%. Increased prosperity in an independent Scotland will increase support for independence. Increased wokery will not, and has not.
    The idea that success breeds success in independence movements, and that institutions are more important than identity, is an interesting one and certainly seems to be borne out by history. It's one of fun (Tatar) Tweeter Kamil Galeev's regular points when speculating on post-Putin Russia.

    Take the former Soviet Union / Russian empire: those republics that retained semi autonomy and governance structures during the Soviet period then generally went on to independence afterwards. Those that had been almost entirely absorbed into the centralising power, including culturally very distinct places like Dagestan or Tatarstan, didn't stand a chance.

    The US states think autonomously and regularly fight against federal power because they already have significant autonomy. Catalonia and Scotland have become closer not further away from independence since devolution. Whereas Corsica and Brittany which historically should be every bit as separatist, are not. And I'd say Scotland is closer to independence than Wales precisely because it has more autonomous institutions and governance, and a shorter history of union, not because the Scots are more different from the rest of Britain than the Welsh are.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 6,319
    Sandpit said:

    Yes, the planes come out of the UK, but by not antagonising the Saudis, you increase the chance that he bows to Western pressure to start pumping more of the black stuff, instead of keeping the price up and letting the Russians fund their war.

    Biden sure as hell wants to see ‘gas prices’ come down in election year, and so will Sunak.
    Germany banned arms sales (with exceptions) to Saudi Arabia in 2018 because of Saudi involvement in the war in Yemen. A complete ban followed the murder of Kashoggi. Last year the ban was relaxed, and this year it was relaxed further - no doubt both times at least partly hoping Saudi Arabia would be helpful with oil production. Instead it looks like KSA is choosing to cooperate with Putin on oil production cuts.

    In the medium term will it prove wise to sell as much advanced weaponry as possible to a potentially hostile country?
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,967

    As the SNP has moved to the left since 2015, it has left many Independence supporters behind. This has increased since the arrangement with the Greens. So far, there is no significant independence supporting party actually arguing the economic case for independence. The SNP under Alex Salmond increased independence support from 28% to 45%. The prospect of increased prosperity in an independent Scotland will increase support for independence. Increased wokery will not, and has not.
    Very good point.

    Its interesting how indy is slowly dying as a practical political issue in Catalonia. Spanish govt simply stood firm and wouldnt allow it. Looked to be an unsustainable position at the time but slowly, quietly, has become the apparently unshakeable status quo. Scotland and Catalonia not the same (obvs) but there is nothing inevitable about any of this.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,486
    edited November 2023
    Nigelb said:

    Some numbers on length.
    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/parliament-labour-party-prince-of-wales-b2443107.html

    And here.
    https://uk.news.yahoo.com/longest-monarch-speech-state-opening-124332487.html
    Around 20 odd bills is not exceptional for the fag end of a Parliament, as this makes clear:
    https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/SN02283/SN02283.pdf

    But the combination of verbosity, and paucity of substance, is evidently an outlier, even if not extraordinarily so.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 34,286
    Pulpstar said:

    Win for the Afghans here and the final group matches are all very interesting indeed.
    I'm thinking about putting a small bet on the Afghans winning the competition.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,833
    edited November 2023

    Once major influencer Leon pops his clogs it may not take quite so long for Westminster to soften up.
    @Leon is correct in his analysis though, isn't he? A referendum and Scottish independence clearly isn't happening any time soon?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,118
    slade said:

    Does anyone know what is meant in the King's Speech by 'protecting football clubs?'

    The banning of VAR?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,486
    edited November 2023
    GIN1138 said:

    Given that government legislation tends to do nothing more than make peoples lives more complicated and miserable, this lack of legislation is surely a good thing?
    There are times when that's true.
    There are also times - now, for example - when the nation's institutions are in need of determined reform.

    Though I'd agree that the less the current lot do, the better.
    Also, the sooner they're gone, ditto.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 14,291
    kamski said:

    Germany banned arms sales (with exceptions) to Saudi Arabia in 2018 because of Saudi involvement in the war in Yemen. A complete ban followed the murder of Kashoggi. Last year the ban was relaxed, and this year it was relaxed further - no doubt both times at least partly hoping Saudi Arabia would be helpful with oil production. Instead it looks like KSA is choosing to cooperate with Putin on oil production cuts.

    In the medium term will it prove wise to sell as much advanced weaponry as possible to a potentially hostile country?
    I don't think that is much of a consideration. The RSAF (much like the RAF) will only be able to keep their Typhoons airworthy for about 15 minutes without contractor support. The Eurofighter consortium can turn that support off when directed by the national governments.
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,967
    Sean_F said:

    Relying on demographic shifts to do your work for you is so often The God That Fails.

    Twenty one years after the book was published, we’re still waiting for the Emerging Democratic Majority to emerge in the US.
    People get more conservative as they grow older. Quite why this obvious fact passes by the commentariat is bewildering.
This discussion has been closed.