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Just how large Khan’s lead would be without ULEZ? – politicalbetting.com

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Comments

  • Nigelb said:

    Anne Frank kindergarten in Germany discusses changing name, sparking uproar

    https://www.politico.eu/article/anne-frank-kindergarten-germany-change-name-uproar/
    ...According to television outlet n-tv, the city council said that some parents and employees requested to the change the name. The daycare center manager Linda Schichor said that children struggle to understand the name, while parents with a migration background often don’t relate to Anne Frank, German media Volksstimme first reported over the weekend. “We wanted something without a political background,” Schichor said...

    Not sure if this has been mentioned yet but a 65 year old Jewish man looks to have been killed by a pro-Palestinian protestor near LA

    https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1721732090176123299

    There was a protest and some sort of scuffle. To quote:

    “Witness accounts indicated that Kessler was involved in a physical altercation with counter-protestor(s),” the sheriff’s office said. “During the altercation, Kessler fell backwards and struck his head on the ground.”
    The protestor beat the dead guy with his megaphone.

    And then when the body was being taken away, the protestors hung around and chanted around where he had fallen, and the blood was still present:

    https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1721732987862094263

    Still, I'm sure you would have the same tone if it was a pro-Palestinian protestor killed by a pro-Israeli demonstrator in a similar situation................
    I don't like misinformation. I don't like rushing to conclusions. You say, "The protestor beat the dead guy with his megaphone". The Jewish Chronicle reports, "A Jewish man in Los Angeles has died after being struck on the head with a megaphone during a pro-Palestinian demonstration." What I've seen in the reporting is that witnesses report there was an altercation, he was hit, he fell and struck his head on the ground. This is a tragedy. The person who hit him (if that is what happened) should be arrested and the full facts of what happened determined. It does not appear to be a deliberate act of murder. "Beat" seems a misleading word that doesn't match the reporting.

    A local rabbi has said exactly what happened is unclear: https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/local-rabbi-says-circumstances-surrounding-la-jewish-mans-death-remain-unclear/ Police are investigating, as they should. We will learn more in due course.

    The clip in that second tweet also doesn't really match your description. The clip doesn't demonstrate that the protestors "hung around". We don't know whether the protestors in that clip are the same people as when Kessler died. That clip seems to show protestors unaware of what had happened there earlier.
    To answer your last point, there are a bunch of protestors hanging around with Palestinian flags in a place where there are clearly Police and Ambulance trucks and where the Police have to tell them to back off. Even if it is not the same bunch (and I find that hard to believe unless you think another bunch came to support them when they learned what had happened).

    The Police are treating it as a homicide and possibly a hate crime - so they seem to know what it is. Not sure why you seem to cast doubt on what the Police are saying.

    You say you don't like misinformation or rushing to conclusions but there doesn't seem to be any problem with that when it is things like accusing Israel of deliberately bombing hospitals and causing 500 casualties. I won't ask you again what you say if this was the opposite (Palestinian protestor hit on the head by an pro-Israel demonstrator) but I suspect you would have a very different view about no
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,072
    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:

    Blimey, Germany's PMI is just 38.

    Brace in eurozone.

    Ouch!

    Note to German government, you might want to throw everything at letting the Ukranians win the war, and not antagonise the Saudis by refusing to export Typhoons at the same time.
    A Saudi order doesn't help the Germans much as Saudi jets come off the British FAL. The German FAL will be busy with the 38 'Quadriga' jets for the GAF until 2027 so they don't have the same political hemorrhoid that's on the verge of bursting like the British do with the imminent end of Eurofighter production at Wharton. The UK government don't want to be forced into a follow on Typhoon order, as they surely would be if the alternative were shuttering Wharton, as that will fuck up Tempest which is already running on the whiff of an oily rag when it comes to finances.

    Airbus D&S would get to make 48 x centre fuselage sections in Germany for whatever that is worth.
    For those of you who don't speak DuraAce

    A Saudi order doesn't help the Germans much as because Saudi jets come off the British FAL final assembly line (where the jigsaw is assembled). The German FAL final assembly line will be busy with the 38 'Quadriga' jets 38 Typhoons built under a special German project for the GAF Luftwaffe until 2027, so they don't have the same political hemorrhoid that's on the verge of bursting like the British do with the imminent end of Eurofighter aircraft Typhoon production at Wharton BAE Wharton/Warton, a manufacturing plant in Lancashire.

    The UK government don't want to be forced into a follow on buying more Typhoons (because they're out-of-date), as they surely would be if the alternative were shuttering Wharton closing the plant, as because that will fuck up Tempest (the brand new successor aircraft that will be really good. Y'know. Like HS2) which is already running on the whiff of an oily rag when it comes to finances. underfunded and out of control.

  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,274

    ...

    HYUFD said:

    New oil and gas fields announced, investment in renewables and improved connectivity and investments in Network North

    Charles is spitting this out HY. He doesn't sound convinced.
    Charles does what he's told - That was all sorted out centuries ago when his namkesake lost his head! 😂
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,582
    Andy_JS said:

    In important news, Afghanistan are 210 for 4 vs Australia after 42 overs. 😊

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/cricket/66859121

    That’s a better score than looked possible an hour ago, when they only had 121/2 from 25ovs.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,275
    Must be painful for Charles having to read this guff out .
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,915
    edited November 2023
    Restrictions on sales of cigarettes and increased powers for leaseholders to buy freeholds and remove punitive service charges and reforms for landlords to regain properties when needed.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,915
    nico679 said:

    Must be painful for Charles having to read this guff out .

    I expect Camilla has a big Scotch ready when he is back
  • HYUFD said:

    Shift from poor quality degrees to high quality apprenticeships

    Shift from poor quality degrees to even poorer quality apprenticeships.
    FTFY.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,275
    HYUFD said:

    nico679 said:

    Must be painful for Charles having to read this guff out .

    I expect Camilla has a big Scotch ready when he is back
    He’ll need it !
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,051

    Nigelb said:

    Anne Frank kindergarten in Germany discusses changing name, sparking uproar

    https://www.politico.eu/article/anne-frank-kindergarten-germany-change-name-uproar/
    ...According to television outlet n-tv, the city council said that some parents and employees requested to the change the name. The daycare center manager Linda Schichor said that children struggle to understand the name, while parents with a migration background often don’t relate to Anne Frank, German media Volksstimme first reported over the weekend. “We wanted something without a political background,” Schichor said...

    Not sure if this has been mentioned yet but a 65 year old Jewish man looks to have been killed by a pro-Palestinian protestor near LA

    https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1721732090176123299

    There was a protest and some sort of scuffle. To quote:

    “Witness accounts indicated that Kessler was involved in a physical altercation with counter-protestor(s),” the sheriff’s office said. “During the altercation, Kessler fell backwards and struck his head on the ground.”
    The protestor beat the dead guy with his megaphone.

    And then when the body was being taken away, the protestors hung around and chanted around where he had fallen, and the blood was still present:

    https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1721732987862094263

    Still, I'm sure you would have the same tone if it was a pro-Palestinian protestor killed by a pro-Israeli demonstrator in a similar situation................
    What are the American police doing? For one thing, two opposing demonstrations should have been kept apart. Secondly, if that is a homicide scene, why is it not taped off? Why are two opposing groups (there are both Israeli and Palestinian flags in view) trampling all over a crime scene? Why are witness statements not being taken? Either the police are grossly incompetent or are not treating this as more than a tragic accident, and quite possibly both.
    From the reports, the guy who killed the other guy just sat there after he did it. From the Police's statement, it certainly seems to be treated as a homicide and possibly a hate crime. There is footage of the demonstration before the incident so I am assuming the incident itself was filmed and that is now in the hands of the Police hence they felt no need to cordon off the scene although - as you say - it is weird.

    More to the point though what sort of person do you have to be if one of your group has just killed someone and you think it is acceptable to still be chanting your cause right where they died?

    (Edit - that is rhetorical. I have my own answer to what type of people they are and what I suspect they think about themselves).
    The news reports I've read said the police don't have any video of when Kessler was struck and went down. They're going off witness statements and have appealed for information. I've not seen any reporting saying the person who struck Kessler just sat there. Cabinet is making a lot of claims without providing sources - I don't know where they're getting some of this from.

    It is unclear from the second clip how long after the incident it was recorded. It does not indicate that the people protesting are aware of what has happened there.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,915
    edited November 2023

    ...

    HYUFD said:

    New oil and gas fields announced, investment in renewables and improved connectivity and investments in Network North

    Charles is spitting this out HY. He doesn't sound convinced.
    He was apparently a member of the Labour Party at Cambridge. If he could vote he would probably vote for Starmer or the LDs I expect, he is classic bluewall Remainer, Camilla is a Tory though
  • eekeek Posts: 28,368
    GIN1138 said:

    ...

    HYUFD said:

    New oil and gas fields announced, investment in renewables and improved connectivity and investments in Network North

    Charles is spitting this out HY. He doesn't sound convinced.
    Charles does what he's told - That was all sorted out centuries ago when his namkesake lost his head! 😂
    He also knows how to make sure this sounds like the nonsense it is without upsetting people.
  • 21 bills in total says Beth Rigby.

  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,552
    Is it really necessary for the monarch to read out details of policy in this way? Maybe the speech should stick to generalities.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,424
    HYUFD said:

    Shift from poor quality degrees to high quality apprenticeships

    Definitions would be useful! Is a poor quality degree one which is badly taught or what?
  • HYUFD said:

    Shift from poor quality degrees to high quality apprenticeships

    Bad news for Oxford then.
  • They’re making Charles waffle on a bit.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,368
    edited November 2023
    Tougher sentences for most serious offenders

    Perhaps if justice didn't take 5 years to get to court and prison sentences weren't reduced due to overcrowding in prisons this wouldn't be required..
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,274
    HYUFD said:

    Restrictions on sales of cigarettes and increased powers for leaseholders to buy freeholds and remove punitive service charges and reforms for landlords to regain properties when needed.

    Is this restriction with cigarettes a back door way of forcing identity cards on everyone?
  • HYUFD said:

    Shift from poor quality degrees to high quality apprenticeships

    Bad news for Oxford then.
    Certainly been shown that PPE turns out absolute clowns in recent years.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,915
    All done and dusted, no surprises and the pageboys pick up the King's train
  • HYUFD said:

    Shift from poor quality degrees to high quality apprenticeships

    Shift from poor quality degrees to even poorer quality apprenticeships.
    FTFY.
    No shift at all because the election will see this government shifted out of office before this can be enacted.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,368
    As for self driving cars - it's a 99.999% problem which is why no-one has got very far because even after you've got all the easy bits done - you are 99% but also only 1% of the way there...
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,274
    There we go. Final Kings Speech under a Conservative government (for now)
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,915
    GIN1138 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Restrictions on sales of cigarettes and increased powers for leaseholders to buy freeholds and remove punitive service charges and reforms for landlords to regain properties when needed.

    Is this restriction with cigarettes a back door way of forcing identity cards on everyone?
    Hope not
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,400

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    Chris said:

    Called it, see yesterday’s thread.

    Labour’s policy is screwing over working class kids.

    Why panicked private-school parents are fighting each other for a place at the local comp

    Labour's plan to charge VAT on fees has sparked a scramble for the top state schools – and put the independent sector in peril


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/education-and-careers/2023/11/06/labour-vat-tax-policy-private-school-state-parents-student/

    Don't panic. Once the private schools go bust and are taken into public ownership and converted into comprehensives, the daddies' little lambs will be able to go back to them.
    Why can't we let failing comprehensives go bust instead? Not just turn them into academies where they often still fail. If they don't perform even after that close them
    Er.
    Because the pupils would literally have nowhere else to go?
    They would, better state schools, free schools etc

    We need more choice and more of a market in education not less
    They are all full.
    How much extra tax would you be willing to pay to ensure there was spare capacity (both in facilities and manpower) to accommodate an entire school in every LA just in case one of them "fails"?
    Increasing capacity in the schools so that they are not 99% full would be good for the schools, the pupils and the teachers.

    Organisations running at 99% of capacity are on the edge of failure.
    Indeed they would.
    It's becoming almost impossible to move a pupil class, let alone school.
  • HYUFD said:

    Shift from poor quality degrees to high quality apprenticeships

    Shift from poor quality degrees to even poorer quality apprenticeships.
    FTFY.
    Wow. So the government has just invalidated British higher education.
  • HYUFD said:

    Shift from poor quality degrees to high quality apprenticeships

    For other people's children of course.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,915

    HYUFD said:

    Shift from poor quality degrees to high quality apprenticeships

    Definitions would be useful! Is a poor quality degree one which is badly taught or what?
    Presumably one with low earnings premium and high graduate unemployment
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,248
    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Another XL Bully attack: https://www.halifaxcourier.co.uk/news/crime/dangerous-dog-police-confirm-armed-officers-shot-dog-dead-after-two-people-hurt-in-calderdale-village-attack-4400029

    Took a police helicopter and armed cops to subdue it, like a rampaging terrorist. There are rumours online about the injuries sustained.

    The consistent problem is their ability to jump fences, so the policy of allowing them access to gardens even after the ban comes into place is not going to work.

    It's a bit circumstantial - a guy said he 'understood' it was a big dog and a 'friend' had told him it was an XL Bully.

    The problem is the owners. Also in saying to people that the issue is with the breed therefore implying all other dogs are safe. They are not in the wrong circumstances. The Dangerous Dogs Act is a bad piece of legislation and has not stopped the issues.
    No. The problem in this case is the owners AND the breed. The XL Bully is a dog specifically bred to be psychotically truculent, aggressive - and super powerful, and liable to flip any moment. Professional dog breeders have been killed and eaten by them

    What you’re saying is “it should be fine to walk around with a vintage WW2 flamethrower, if you know what you’re doing”

    We don’t allow that, because it’s ridiculous. Ditto here
    First of all, it would be good to get some facts. As @Carnyx says, there is a tendency for people to go "it's a big dog, it has to be a XL Bully" even when / if it's not (the initial hype is almost always not followed by a correction when it turns out the initial assumption is false).

    Second, the RSPCA, Battersea Dogs Home and the Royal Kennel Club have all said a ban is the wrong measure. We get enough on here about criticising people who 'don't listen to the experts' but it seems the only experts they want to hear are those they agree with (to be fair, you are not in that category but some who liked your comment are).

    Third, any dog is dangerous under the wrong conditions and it is wrong to encourage people to think there are safe breeds. You don't deal with them by the sound of things but plenty do and encouraging an attitude of 'it's a (e.g.) Lab, it must be nice' is the wrong way.
    The RSPCA is an animal welfare charity, and you are correct that we should listen to their advice on that basis and in particular for drafting better legislation in the future. But animal welfare is slightly lower down the list of priorities than the immediate threat to human beings (this is a controversial view, I gather, having being banned from my local facebook group for expressing this view).

    Another example: the RSPB does a great job setting out the conservation impact of the dualling of the A9, particularly around their reserves in the Cairngorms. We should listen to them when assessing the decision, even if overall we believe the economic prosperity of the north of Scotland is more important than the recovery of the Capercaillie.
    As has been noted before, the RSPCA offers pet insurance. Which excludes XL bullies or dogs with any genes from same.

    Why doesn’t someone ask them why they won’t insure such breeds?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    GIN1138 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Restrictions on sales of cigarettes and increased powers for leaseholders to buy freeholds and remove punitive service charges and reforms for landlords to regain properties when needed.

    Is this restriction with cigarettes a back door way of forcing identity cards on everyone?
    Paging David Davis.

    On second thoughts perhaps a vanity by election in a safe Conservative seat isn't such a good idea after all.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,275
    GIN1138 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Restrictions on sales of cigarettes and increased powers for leaseholders to buy freeholds and remove punitive service charges and reforms for landlords to regain properties when needed.

    Is this restriction with cigarettes a back door way of forcing identity cards on everyone?
    I support ID cards , not sure why there’s so much controversy over this issue . They have them all over Europe without problems.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,072
    GIN1138 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Restrictions on sales of cigarettes and increased powers for leaseholders to buy freeholds and remove punitive service charges and reforms for landlords to regain properties when needed.

    Is this restriction with cigarettes a back door way of forcing identity cards on everyone?
    No, it's just a kneejerk reactionary policy forced on people by the financial consultant husband of a billionaire heiress who thinks everybody should do what he thinks is right and who has never put a shelf up. I'm sure any requirement for ID will be a bonus.
  • viewcode said:

    GIN1138 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Restrictions on sales of cigarettes and increased powers for leaseholders to buy freeholds and remove punitive service charges and reforms for landlords to regain properties when needed.

    Is this restriction with cigarettes a back door way of forcing identity cards on everyone?
    No, it's just a kneejerk reactionary policy forced on people by the financial consultant husband of a billionaire heiress who thinks everybody should do what he thinks is right and who has never put a shelf up. I'm sure any requirement for ID will be a bonus.
    Reactionary?
  • HYUFD said:

    All done and dusted, no surprises and the pageboys pick up the King's train

    They must be strong.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,986
    HYUFD said:

    ...

    HYUFD said:

    New oil and gas fields announced, investment in renewables and improved connectivity and investments in Network North

    Charles is spitting this out HY. He doesn't sound convinced.
    He was apparently a member of the Labour Party at Cambridge. If he could vote he would probably vote for Starmer or the LDs I expect, he is classic bluewall Remainer, Camilla is a Tory though
    KC is surely a Lib Dem. QE2 and Princess Anne both one nation Tory, Di New Labour, William a HUYFD Tory traditionalist, Harry Labour or greens etc. But if there's a LD in there I reckon it's Charles.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,051

    Nigelb said:

    Anne Frank kindergarten in Germany discusses changing name, sparking uproar

    https://www.politico.eu/article/anne-frank-kindergarten-germany-change-name-uproar/
    ...According to television outlet n-tv, the city council said that some parents and employees requested to the change the name. The daycare center manager Linda Schichor said that children struggle to understand the name, while parents with a migration background often don’t relate to Anne Frank, German media Volksstimme first reported over the weekend. “We wanted something without a political background,” Schichor said...

    Not sure if this has been mentioned yet but a 65 year old Jewish man looks to have been killed by a pro-Palestinian protestor near LA

    https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1721732090176123299

    There was a protest and some sort of scuffle. To quote:

    “Witness accounts indicated that Kessler was involved in a physical altercation with counter-protestor(s),” the sheriff’s office said. “During the altercation, Kessler fell backwards and struck his head on the ground.”
    The protestor beat the dead guy with his megaphone.

    And then when the body was being taken away, the protestors hung around and chanted around where he had fallen, and the blood was still present:

    https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1721732987862094263

    Still, I'm sure you would have the same tone if it was a pro-Palestinian protestor killed by a pro-Israeli demonstrator in a similar situation................
    I don't like misinformation. I don't like rushing to conclusions. You say, "The protestor beat the dead guy with his megaphone". The Jewish Chronicle reports, "A Jewish man in Los Angeles has died after being struck on the head with a megaphone during a pro-Palestinian demonstration." What I've seen in the reporting is that witnesses report there was an altercation, he was hit, he fell and struck his head on the ground. This is a tragedy. The person who hit him (if that is what happened) should be arrested and the full facts of what happened determined. It does not appear to be a deliberate act of murder. "Beat" seems a misleading word that doesn't match the reporting.

    A local rabbi has said exactly what happened is unclear: https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/local-rabbi-says-circumstances-surrounding-la-jewish-mans-death-remain-unclear/ Police are investigating, as they should. We will learn more in due course.

    The clip in that second tweet also doesn't really match your description. The clip doesn't demonstrate that the protestors "hung around". We don't know whether the protestors in that clip are the same people as when Kessler died. That clip seems to show protestors unaware of what had happened there earlier.
    To answer your last point, there are a bunch of protestors hanging around with Palestinian flags in a place where there are clearly Police and Ambulance trucks and where the Police have to tell them to back off. Even if it is not the same bunch (and I find that hard to believe unless you think another bunch came to support them when they learned what had happened).

    The Police are treating it as a homicide and possibly a hate crime - so they seem to know what it is. Not sure why you seem to cast doubt on what the Police are saying.

    You say you don't like misinformation or rushing to conclusions but there doesn't seem to be any problem with that when it is things like accusing Israel of deliberately bombing hospitals and causing 500 casualties. I won't ask you again what you say if this was the opposite (Palestinian protestor hit on the head by an pro-Israel demonstrator) but I suspect you would have a very different view about no
    I have not cast doubt on what the police are saying. The police are doing what they should do: investigating a possible homicide and hate crime. "Homicide" covers deliberate murder through to manslaughter.

    You're the one who keeps saying things that go beyond what the police have said. You're the one who wants to turn a horrific event into a win in an online forum argument.

    There is absolutely a problem with the reporting of events in Gaza, including of the widely-discussed explosion outside a hospital. Let's not add to that problem by rushing to conclusions. If there are specific posts of mine with respect to those events that you wish to query, go for it. Otherwise, you are just again rushing to conclusions about what I've said previously or what I would say in another circumstance. Why don't we stick instead to actual evidence rather than presupposition?
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,986

    HYUFD said:

    All done and dusted, no surprises and the pageboys pick up the King's train

    They must be strong.
    Train set. So quite light
  • GIN1138 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Restrictions on sales of cigarettes and increased powers for leaseholders to buy freeholds and remove punitive service charges and reforms for landlords to regain properties when needed.

    Is this restriction with cigarettes a back door way of forcing identity cards on everyone?
    Nothing as ulterior as that.

    It’s Legacy. Nothing more or less. Rishi doesn’t have much by way of successes he can point to. This one genuinely is a game changer, at least in concept.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,915
    edited November 2023
    TimS said:

    HYUFD said:

    ...

    HYUFD said:

    New oil and gas fields announced, investment in renewables and improved connectivity and investments in Network North

    Charles is spitting this out HY. He doesn't sound convinced.
    He was apparently a member of the Labour Party at Cambridge. If he could vote he would probably vote for Starmer or the LDs I expect, he is classic bluewall Remainer, Camilla is a Tory though
    KC is surely a Lib Dem. QE2 and Princess Anne both one nation Tory, Di New Labour, William a HUYFD Tory traditionalist, Harry Labour or greens etc. But if there's a LD in there I reckon it's Charles.
    Yes, though William and Kate are more Cameroon than Thatcherite Tory and the Queen Mother was UKIP!
  • I forgot we had this nonsense in parliament today. No wonder my cycle route through Westminster was such carnage this morning.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,051
    GIN1138 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Restrictions on sales of cigarettes and increased powers for leaseholders to buy freeholds and remove punitive service charges and reforms for landlords to regain properties when needed.

    Is this restriction with cigarettes a back door way of forcing identity cards on everyone?
    Why would this restriction on cigarettes have any impact on the majority of people who don't smoke?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957

    I forgot we had this nonsense in parliament today. No wonder my cycle route through Westminster was such carnage this morning.

    Absolutely. I wondered why there were engineering works on the line at Market Harborough. Republic now!
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,348
    HYUFD said:

    ...

    HYUFD said:

    New oil and gas fields announced, investment in renewables and improved connectivity and investments in Network North

    Charles is spitting this out HY. He doesn't sound convinced.
    He was apparently a member of the Labour Party at Cambridge. If he could vote he would probably vote for Starmer or the LDs I expect, he is classic bluewall Remainer, Camilla is a Tory though
    I expect he'd vote Green or TUSC if he were able to.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,072
    nico679 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Restrictions on sales of cigarettes and increased powers for leaseholders to buy freeholds and remove punitive service charges and reforms for landlords to regain properties when needed.

    Is this restriction with cigarettes a back door way of forcing identity cards on everyone?
    I support ID cards , not sure why there’s so much controversy over this issue . They have them all over Europe without problems.
    They have ID cards because they have a registration culture, for really awful historical reasons. England doesn't because the history is different.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,915
    Sean_F said:

    HYUFD said:

    ...

    HYUFD said:

    New oil and gas fields announced, investment in renewables and improved connectivity and investments in Network North

    Charles is spitting this out HY. He doesn't sound convinced.
    He was apparently a member of the Labour Party at Cambridge. If he could vote he would probably vote for Starmer or the LDs I expect, he is classic bluewall Remainer, Camilla is a Tory though
    I expect he'd vote Green or TUSC if he were able to.
    No. They are republican parties, he would be Starmer Labour or LD nationally, maybe Green locally
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Another XL Bully attack: https://www.halifaxcourier.co.uk/news/crime/dangerous-dog-police-confirm-armed-officers-shot-dog-dead-after-two-people-hurt-in-calderdale-village-attack-4400029

    Took a police helicopter and armed cops to subdue it, like a rampaging terrorist. There are rumours online about the injuries sustained.

    The consistent problem is their ability to jump fences, so the policy of allowing them access to gardens even after the ban comes into place is not going to work.

    It's a bit circumstantial - a guy said he 'understood' it was a big dog and a 'friend' had told him it was an XL Bully.

    The problem is the owners. Also in saying to people that the issue is with the breed therefore implying all other dogs are safe. They are not in the wrong circumstances. The Dangerous Dogs Act is a bad piece of legislation and has not stopped the issues.
    No. The problem in this case is the owners AND the breed. The XL Bully is a dog specifically bred to be psychotically truculent, aggressive - and super powerful, and liable to flip any moment. Professional dog breeders have been killed and eaten by them

    What you’re saying is “it should be fine to walk around with a vintage WW2 flamethrower, if you know what you’re doing”

    We don’t allow that, because it’s ridiculous. Ditto here
    First of all, it would be good to get some facts. As @Carnyx says, there is a tendency for people to go "it's a big dog, it has to be a XL Bully" even when / if it's not (the initial hype is almost always not followed by a correction when it turns out the initial assumption is false).

    Second, the RSPCA, Battersea Dogs Home and the Royal Kennel Club have all said a ban is the wrong measure. We get enough on here about criticising people who 'don't listen to the experts' but it seems the only experts they want to hear are those they agree with (to be fair, you are not in that category but some who liked your comment are).

    Third, any dog is dangerous under the wrong conditions and it is wrong to encourage people to think there are safe breeds. You don't deal with them by the sound of things but plenty do and encouraging an attitude of 'it's a (e.g.) Lab, it must be nice' is the wrong way.
    The experts in this case - the RSPCA - are a bunch of hacks and shills who have been entirely captured by a bunch of crackpot dog dealers and owners. Like you

    Amazingly, the RSPCA wants to get ALL dangerous dog legislation repealed. Why? Wtf? How many mutilated children and dead people are acceptable, every year, so inadequate morons can walk around with the equivalent of a leopard on crystal meth, pleasantly called “Satan”?

    What’s more, the RSPCA itself won’t insure XL Bullies. Because it knows they are way too dangerous. So when it comes to actual hard money their tune changes entirely

    The RSPCA - and the other “dog charities” - have disgraced themselves on this
  • SandraMcSandraMc Posts: 694
    TimS said:

    HYUFD said:

    All done and dusted, no surprises and the pageboys pick up the King's train

    They must be strong.
    Train set. So quite light
    HS2. Only half there.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,072

    viewcode said:

    GIN1138 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Restrictions on sales of cigarettes and increased powers for leaseholders to buy freeholds and remove punitive service charges and reforms for landlords to regain properties when needed.

    Is this restriction with cigarettes a back door way of forcing identity cards on everyone?
    No, it's just a kneejerk reactionary policy forced on people by the financial consultant husband of a billionaire heiress who thinks everybody should do what he thinks is right and who has never put a shelf up. I'm sure any requirement for ID will be a bonus.
    Reactionary?
    Pretty much, yeah; a not well thought out policy that was initiated by an expression of an emotional distaste for a thing, not one that was justified by events. The habit is dying, and this restriction just adds more bureaucracy.

    I'm worried now: did I use the wrong word?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,582
    edited November 2023
    eek said:

    As for self driving cars - it's a 99.999% problem which is why no-one has got very far because even after you've got all the easy bits done - you are 99% but also only 1% of the way there...

    GM just had their operating licence pulled in California, where they were testing a load of them. Too many incidents and unpredictable behaviours, including a pedestrian who became stuck underneath one.

    Integrating SD cars onto an existing urban road system, is a problem that’s way more difficult than anyone thought it would be.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,552
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Another XL Bully attack: https://www.halifaxcourier.co.uk/news/crime/dangerous-dog-police-confirm-armed-officers-shot-dog-dead-after-two-people-hurt-in-calderdale-village-attack-4400029

    Took a police helicopter and armed cops to subdue it, like a rampaging terrorist. There are rumours online about the injuries sustained.

    The consistent problem is their ability to jump fences, so the policy of allowing them access to gardens even after the ban comes into place is not going to work.

    It's a bit circumstantial - a guy said he 'understood' it was a big dog and a 'friend' had told him it was an XL Bully.

    The problem is the owners. Also in saying to people that the issue is with the breed therefore implying all other dogs are safe. They are not in the wrong circumstances. The Dangerous Dogs Act is a bad piece of legislation and has not stopped the issues.
    No. The problem in this case is the owners AND the breed. The XL Bully is a dog specifically bred to be psychotically truculent, aggressive - and super powerful, and liable to flip any moment. Professional dog breeders have been killed and eaten by them

    What you’re saying is “it should be fine to walk around with a vintage WW2 flamethrower, if you know what you’re doing”

    We don’t allow that, because it’s ridiculous. Ditto here
    First of all, it would be good to get some facts. As @Carnyx says, there is a tendency for people to go "it's a big dog, it has to be a XL Bully" even when / if it's not (the initial hype is almost always not followed by a correction when it turns out the initial assumption is false).

    Second, the RSPCA, Battersea Dogs Home and the Royal Kennel Club have all said a ban is the wrong measure. We get enough on here about criticising people who 'don't listen to the experts' but it seems the only experts they want to hear are those they agree with (to be fair, you are not in that category but some who liked your comment are).

    Third, any dog is dangerous under the wrong conditions and it is wrong to encourage people to think there are safe breeds. You don't deal with them by the sound of things but plenty do and encouraging an attitude of 'it's a (e.g.) Lab, it must be nice' is the wrong way.
    The experts in this case - the RSPCA - are a bunch of hacks and shills who have been entirely captured by a bunch of crackpot dog dealers and owners. Like you

    Amazingly, the RSPCA wants to get ALL dangerous dog legislation repealed. Why? Wtf? How many mutilated children and dead people are acceptable, every year, so inadequate morons can walk around with the equivalent of a leopard on crystal meth, pleasantly called “Satan”?

    What’s more, the RSPCA itself won’t insure XL Bullies. Because it knows they are way too dangerous. So when it comes to actual hard money their tune changes entirely

    The RSPCA - and the other “dog charities” - have disgraced themselves on this
    Some people have an almost religious belief in the idea that animals are good, humans are bad.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,662
    Anything on stealing tents from the homeless?
  • HYUFD said:

    ...

    HYUFD said:

    New oil and gas fields announced, investment in renewables and improved connectivity and investments in Network North

    Charles is spitting this out HY. He doesn't sound convinced.
    He was apparently a member of the Labour Party at Cambridge. If he could vote he would probably vote for Starmer or the LDs I expect, he is classic bluewall Remainer, Camilla is a Tory though
    Unless the future king, who everybody knew was the future king, joined all the parties, this seems unlikely. Stranger things have happened, though.
  • Re political leanings of royals, I’d doubt that any of them are anything less right wing than soft one nation Tories.

    Charles has an interest in some causes that would typically be seen as left wing, but really they are universal in nature, it’s just that the narrative around them has been left wing.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,275
    viewcode said:

    nico679 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Restrictions on sales of cigarettes and increased powers for leaseholders to buy freeholds and remove punitive service charges and reforms for landlords to regain properties when needed.

    Is this restriction with cigarettes a back door way of forcing identity cards on everyone?
    I support ID cards , not sure why there’s so much controversy over this issue . They have them all over Europe without problems.
    They have ID cards because they have a registration culture, for really awful historical reasons. England doesn't because the history is different.
    I didn’t realize that.
  • GIN1138 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Restrictions on sales of cigarettes and increased powers for leaseholders to buy freeholds and remove punitive service charges and reforms for landlords to regain properties when needed.

    Is this restriction with cigarettes a back door way of forcing identity cards on everyone?
    Paging David Davis.

    On second thoughts perhaps a vanity by election in a safe Conservative seat isn't such a good idea after all.
    Zac Goldsmith rather put MPs off the vanity by-election concept in 2016 (he clawed the seat back a few months later, of course, although barely and only for a couple of years).

    Lib Dems were silly not to contest the Davis by-election in 2008. They did so on the basis they agreed with the basic point he was making, but they did with Goldsmith too in that he'd resigned over Heathrow - but they ignored that and made it into a Brexit vote in a very heavily Remain seat.
  • VerulamiusVerulamius Posts: 1,543
    SandraMc said:

    TimS said:

    HYUFD said:

    All done and dusted, no surprises and the pageboys pick up the King's train

    They must be strong.
    Train set. So quite light
    HS2. Only half there.
    Hornby?
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405
    nico679 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Restrictions on sales of cigarettes and increased powers for leaseholders to buy freeholds and remove punitive service charges and reforms for landlords to regain properties when needed.

    Is this restriction with cigarettes a back door way of forcing identity cards on everyone?
    I support ID cards , not sure why there’s so much controversy over this issue . They have them all over Europe without problems.
    Because we're British dammit, and we don't like the idea of the gestapo stopping us on the street and saying 'papers'...

    No, I don't understand either. How many driving licences are there in the UK for starters?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    edited November 2023
    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Another XL Bully attack: https://www.halifaxcourier.co.uk/news/crime/dangerous-dog-police-confirm-armed-officers-shot-dog-dead-after-two-people-hurt-in-calderdale-village-attack-4400029

    Took a police helicopter and armed cops to subdue it, like a rampaging terrorist. There are rumours online about the injuries sustained.

    The consistent problem is their ability to jump fences, so the policy of allowing them access to gardens even after the ban comes into place is not going to work.

    It's a bit circumstantial - a guy said he 'understood' it was a big dog and a 'friend' had told him it was an XL Bully.

    The problem is the owners. Also in saying to people that the issue is with the breed therefore implying all other dogs are safe. They are not in the wrong circumstances. The Dangerous Dogs Act is a bad piece of legislation and has not stopped the issues.
    No. The problem in this case is the owners AND the breed. The XL Bully is a dog specifically bred to be psychotically truculent, aggressive - and super powerful, and liable to flip any moment. Professional dog breeders have been killed and eaten by them

    What you’re saying is “it should be fine to walk around with a vintage WW2 flamethrower, if you know what you’re doing”

    We don’t allow that, because it’s ridiculous. Ditto here
    First of all, it would be good to get some facts. As @Carnyx says, there is a tendency for people to go "it's a big dog, it has to be a XL Bully" even when / if it's not (the initial hype is almost always not followed by a correction when it turns out the initial assumption is false).

    Second, the RSPCA, Battersea Dogs Home and the Royal Kennel Club have all said a ban is the wrong measure. We get enough on here about criticising people who 'don't listen to the experts' but it seems the only experts they want to hear are those they agree with (to be fair, you are not in that category but some who liked your comment are).

    Third, any dog is dangerous under the wrong conditions and it is wrong to encourage people to think there are safe breeds. You don't deal with them by the sound of things but plenty do and encouraging an attitude of 'it's a (e.g.) Lab, it must be nice' is the wrong way.
    The experts in this case - the RSPCA - are a bunch of hacks and shills who have been entirely captured by a bunch of crackpot dog dealers and owners. Like you

    Amazingly, the RSPCA wants to get ALL dangerous dog legislation repealed. Why? Wtf? How many mutilated children and dead people are acceptable, every year, so inadequate morons can walk around with the equivalent of a leopard on crystal meth, pleasantly called “Satan”?

    What’s more, the RSPCA itself won’t insure XL Bullies. Because it knows they are way too dangerous. So when it comes to actual hard money their tune changes entirely

    The RSPCA - and the other “dog charities” - have disgraced themselves on this
    Some people have an almost religious belief in the idea that animals are good, humans are bad.
    I don’t think XL Bullies are morally bad. It’s not their fault they’ve been bred as wildly dangerous fighting dogs. But that is what they are, and they are far too menacing to be allowed in public (and, to my mind, allowed in any house - so many kids have been mauled or killed by “the lovable XL Bully family pet)

    Just get rid of them. Muzzle and neuter those that comply, kill the rest
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,424
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Shift from poor quality degrees to high quality apprenticeships

    Definitions would be useful! Is a poor quality degree one which is badly taught or what?
    Presumably one with low earnings premium and high graduate unemployment
    Such as? I gather degrees in various theatre related activities can have high unemployment but also high salaries, due to short-term contracts.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,248
    nico679 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Restrictions on sales of cigarettes and increased powers for leaseholders to buy freeholds and remove punitive service charges and reforms for landlords to regain properties when needed.

    Is this restriction with cigarettes a back door way of forcing identity cards on everyone?
    I support ID cards , not sure why there’s so much controversy over this issue . They have them all over Europe without problems.
    For the 1,345,456th time.

    The problem with ID cards is not the id card. It’s not even the unique id number*
    It’s not even using the unique id number as a key in multiple databases.

    It’s the ludicrously unsafe idea of connecting all your personal data together and making it accessible to everyone in “government”

    This is exactly what was proposed, planned and was on he verge of being implanted with the last attempt at ID cards (killed by the coalition)

    Aside from being unsafe, unworkable and a few other things, it would be completely incompatible with data security legislation on the books.

    *which should actually be a ID code, with checksums etc.
  • You can support the concept of ID cards but hate the proposed implementation of them under New Labour. There were not enough safeguards around data security.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,582

    GIN1138 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Restrictions on sales of cigarettes and increased powers for leaseholders to buy freeholds and remove punitive service charges and reforms for landlords to regain properties when needed.

    Is this restriction with cigarettes a back door way of forcing identity cards on everyone?
    Nothing as ulterior as that.

    It’s Legacy. Nothing more or less. Rishi doesn’t have much by way of successes he can point to. This one genuinely is a game changer, at least in concept.
    If he really wanted a legacy, he could have made a start on the too-difficult pile instead of adding more to it.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,424

    You can support the concept of ID cards but hate the proposed implementation of them under New Labour. There were not enough safeguards around data security.

    Might solve the issue of ID at the polling stations though. But that might be in Tory interests!
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,552
    Another ridiculous catch decision.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    Anyway. Enough about depressing dogs


    Good morning from another dazzling day at Gylly Beach cafe


  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,248

    You can support the concept of ID cards but hate the proposed implementation of them under New Labour. There were not enough safeguards around data security.

    It wasn’t so much New Labour, as allowing the ID card loons in the Home Office off the leash.

    They had been proposing the same thing for decades before and are still trying to sell the same stupid idea.

    Michael Howard said that a duty if every Home Sec. Is to say no to the list of mad & bad ideas that get pulled out of the drawer after any crisis
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,348
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Another XL Bully attack: https://www.halifaxcourier.co.uk/news/crime/dangerous-dog-police-confirm-armed-officers-shot-dog-dead-after-two-people-hurt-in-calderdale-village-attack-4400029

    Took a police helicopter and armed cops to subdue it, like a rampaging terrorist. There are rumours online about the injuries sustained.

    The consistent problem is their ability to jump fences, so the policy of allowing them access to gardens even after the ban comes into place is not going to work.

    It's a bit circumstantial - a guy said he 'understood' it was a big dog and a 'friend' had told him it was an XL Bully.

    The problem is the owners. Also in saying to people that the issue is with the breed therefore implying all other dogs are safe. They are not in the wrong circumstances. The Dangerous Dogs Act is a bad piece of legislation and has not stopped the issues.
    No. The problem in this case is the owners AND the breed. The XL Bully is a dog specifically bred to be psychotically truculent, aggressive - and super powerful, and liable to flip any moment. Professional dog breeders have been killed and eaten by them

    What you’re saying is “it should be fine to walk around with a vintage WW2 flamethrower, if you know what you’re doing”

    We don’t allow that, because it’s ridiculous. Ditto here
    First of all, it would be good to get some facts. As @Carnyx says, there is a tendency for people to go "it's a big dog, it has to be a XL Bully" even when / if it's not (the initial hype is almost always not followed by a correction when it turns out the initial assumption is false).

    Second, the RSPCA, Battersea Dogs Home and the Royal Kennel Club have all said a ban is the wrong measure. We get enough on here about criticising people who 'don't listen to the experts' but it seems the only experts they want to hear are those they agree with (to be fair, you are not in that category but some who liked your comment are).

    Third, any dog is dangerous under the wrong conditions and it is wrong to encourage people to think there are safe breeds. You don't deal with them by the sound of things but plenty do and encouraging an attitude of 'it's a (e.g.) Lab, it must be nice' is the wrong way.
    The experts in this case - the RSPCA - are a bunch of hacks and shills who have been entirely captured by a bunch of crackpot dog dealers and owners. Like you

    Amazingly, the RSPCA wants to get ALL dangerous dog legislation repealed. Why? Wtf? How many mutilated children and dead people are acceptable, every year, so inadequate morons can walk around with the equivalent of a leopard on crystal meth, pleasantly called “Satan”?

    What’s more, the RSPCA itself won’t insure XL Bullies. Because it knows they are way too dangerous. So when it comes to actual hard money their tune changes entirely

    The RSPCA - and the other “dog charities” - have disgraced themselves on this
    Agreed. Animal charities have not covered themselves in glory over this.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,986

    nico679 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Restrictions on sales of cigarettes and increased powers for leaseholders to buy freeholds and remove punitive service charges and reforms for landlords to regain properties when needed.

    Is this restriction with cigarettes a back door way of forcing identity cards on everyone?
    I support ID cards , not sure why there’s so much controversy over this issue . They have them all over Europe without problems.
    Because we're British dammit, and we don't like the idea of the gestapo stopping us on the street and saying 'papers'...

    No, I don't understand either. How many driving licences are there in the UK for starters?
    The way this works, we’ll resist them until the very moment when advances in fintech mean we can access and control multi-use, encrypted ID and personal data through simple off the shelf apps (we are close already). At which point we’ll then spend billions on a clunky bespoke government system that’s already out of date.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,582

    You can support the concept of ID cards but hate the proposed implementation of them under New Labour. There were not enough safeguards around data security.

    The creation of a separate “VIP database”, for MPs, their families, and senior officials, was the giveaway.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,275

    nico679 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Restrictions on sales of cigarettes and increased powers for leaseholders to buy freeholds and remove punitive service charges and reforms for landlords to regain properties when needed.

    Is this restriction with cigarettes a back door way of forcing identity cards on everyone?
    I support ID cards , not sure why there’s so much controversy over this issue . They have them all over Europe without problems.
    For the 1,345,456th time.

    The problem with ID cards is not the id card. It’s not even the unique id number*
    It’s not even using the unique id number as a key in multiple databases.

    It’s the ludicrously unsafe idea of connecting all your personal data together and making it accessible to everyone in “government”

    This is exactly what was proposed, planned and was on he verge of being implanted with the last attempt at ID cards (killed by the coalition)

    Aside from being unsafe, unworkable and a few other things, it would be completely incompatible with data security legislation on the books.

    *which should actually be a ID code, with checksums etc.
    I understand people’s concerns about security but how can most of Europe have them with no controversy or major issues .
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,248
    nico679 said:

    nico679 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Restrictions on sales of cigarettes and increased powers for leaseholders to buy freeholds and remove punitive service charges and reforms for landlords to regain properties when needed.

    Is this restriction with cigarettes a back door way of forcing identity cards on everyone?
    I support ID cards , not sure why there’s so much controversy over this issue . They have them all over Europe without problems.
    For the 1,345,456th time.

    The problem with ID cards is not the id card. It’s not even the unique id number*
    It’s not even using the unique id number as a key in multiple databases.

    It’s the ludicrously unsafe idea of connecting all your personal data together and making it accessible to everyone in “government”

    This is exactly what was proposed, planned and was on he verge of being implanted with the last attempt at ID cards (killed by the coalition)

    Aside from being unsafe, unworkable and a few other things, it would be completely incompatible with data security legislation on the books.

    *which should actually be a ID code, with checksums etc.
    I understand people’s concerns about security but how can most of Europe have them with no controversy or major issues .
    Because they don’t have the stupid mega-database garbage. The various databases are separate with appropriate access. Mostly.

    In Germany it is expressly forbidden, in law, to create such a farce.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,662

    nico679 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Restrictions on sales of cigarettes and increased powers for leaseholders to buy freeholds and remove punitive service charges and reforms for landlords to regain properties when needed.

    Is this restriction with cigarettes a back door way of forcing identity cards on everyone?
    I support ID cards , not sure why there’s so much controversy over this issue . They have them all over Europe without problems.
    For the 1,345,456th time.

    The problem with ID cards is not the id card. It’s not even the unique id number*
    It’s not even using the unique id number as a key in multiple databases.

    It’s the ludicrously unsafe idea of connecting all your personal data together and making it accessible to everyone in “government”

    This is exactly what was proposed, planned and was on he verge of being implanted with the last attempt at ID cards (killed by the coalition)

    Aside from being unsafe, unworkable and a few other things, it would be completely incompatible with data security legislation on the books.

    *which should actually be a ID code, with checksums etc.
    It would make sense to use the NI number which the vast majority of us have anyway.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,986
    nico679 said:

    nico679 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Restrictions on sales of cigarettes and increased powers for leaseholders to buy freeholds and remove punitive service charges and reforms for landlords to regain properties when needed.

    Is this restriction with cigarettes a back door way of forcing identity cards on everyone?
    I support ID cards , not sure why there’s so much controversy over this issue . They have them all over Europe without problems.
    For the 1,345,456th time.

    The problem with ID cards is not the id card. It’s not even the unique id number*
    It’s not even using the unique id number as a key in multiple databases.

    It’s the ludicrously unsafe idea of connecting all your personal data together and making it accessible to everyone in “government”

    This is exactly what was proposed, planned and was on he verge of being implanted with the last attempt at ID cards (killed by the coalition)

    Aside from being unsafe, unworkable and a few other things, it would be completely incompatible with data security legislation on the books.

    *which should actually be a ID code, with checksums etc.
    I understand people’s concerns about security but how can most of Europe have them with no controversy or major issues .
    Most of those are unlinked ie they only link to a government database with basic ID information not everything.

    But I like the idea of opt-in ID. You have a unique number and login, to which - if you elect to - you can then link other information so you have everything to hand. The technology exists to make this decentralised and secure. The big issue is when there’s one huge list someone can hack into and download millions of details.

    Ultimately we’ll all have something like this because it’s the logical endpoint of advances in data management in the private sector. There’s already way more linked to our NHS numbers than there used to be, and your address takes you into credit ratings, electoral register, driving licence and so on.
  • HYUFD said:

    nico679 said:

    Must be painful for Charles having to read this guff out .

    I expect Camilla has a big Scotch ready when he is back
    A double even




  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,400
    Australia 292 to win.
    Afghanistan's performances at this World Cup have been a little positive news story.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,424
    dixiedean said:

    Australia 292 to win.
    Afghanistan's performances at this World Cup have been a little positive news story.

    Good effort by Zadran.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,792

    Cookie said:

    RWP said:

    I think that Hall would get more votes if she had a running mate called Oates, ideally shorter with darker hair and a dodgy 'tache.

    When I lived in Broxtowe, I was in a two member ward represented by Stephen Doo and Lynda Lally. I often wonder how delighted the Broxtowe Labour Party must have been to have paired those two up.
    Yes, there were wry grins about that. Just for your interest - I'm having supper with the Lallys tonight - they've retired as councillors but in good health.
    Pleased to hear it! From what I could glean they were diligent and hardworking councillors.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,051
    Why are we talking about ID cards? There’s no proposal been made for ID cards. There’s no proposal been made for anything particularly close to ID cards.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,552
    I think the King didn't enjoy reading most of that speech!
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,072

    nico679 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Restrictions on sales of cigarettes and increased powers for leaseholders to buy freeholds and remove punitive service charges and reforms for landlords to regain properties when needed.

    Is this restriction with cigarettes a back door way of forcing identity cards on everyone?
    I support ID cards , not sure why there’s so much controversy over this issue . They have them all over Europe without problems.
    For the 1,345,456th time.

    The problem with ID cards is not the id card. It’s not even the unique id number*
    It’s not even using the unique id number as a key in multiple databases.

    It’s the ludicrously unsafe idea of connecting all your personal data together and making it accessible to everyone in “government”

    This is exactly what was proposed, planned and was on he verge of being implanted with the last attempt at ID cards (killed by the coalition)

    Aside from being unsafe, unworkable and a few other things, it would be completely incompatible with data security legislation on the books.

    *which should actually be a ID code, with checksums etc.
    It would make sense to use the NI number which the vast majority of us have anyway.
    NINos are not unique. They are re-used. Plus when you have 68 million people, "the vast majority" will still give you 100,000s of errors
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,355
    nico679 said:

    Must be painful for Charles having to read this guff out .

    He's been waiting seven decades for this job. He's surely having the time of his life now that the grief of losing his mother is fading.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,355

    nico679 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Restrictions on sales of cigarettes and increased powers for leaseholders to buy freeholds and remove punitive service charges and reforms for landlords to regain properties when needed.

    Is this restriction with cigarettes a back door way of forcing identity cards on everyone?
    I support ID cards , not sure why there’s so much controversy over this issue . They have them all over Europe without problems.
    For the 1,345,456th time.

    The problem with ID cards is not the id card. It’s not even the unique id number*
    It’s not even using the unique id number as a key in multiple databases.

    It’s the ludicrously unsafe idea of connecting all your personal data together and making it accessible to everyone in “government”

    This is exactly what was proposed, planned and was on he verge of being implanted with the last attempt at ID cards (killed by the coalition)

    Aside from being unsafe, unworkable and a few other things, it would be completely incompatible with data security legislation on the books.

    *which should actually be a ID code, with checksums etc.
    It would make sense to use the NI number which the vast majority of us have anyway.
    No, because the NI database is probably in the biggest mess of all of them, and it's too easy to get an NI number.
  • Andy_JS said:

    I think the King didn't enjoy reading most of that speech!

    If he doesn’t like it he can quit.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    edited November 2023
    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Another XL Bully attack: https://www.halifaxcourier.co.uk/news/crime/dangerous-dog-police-confirm-armed-officers-shot-dog-dead-after-two-people-hurt-in-calderdale-village-attack-4400029

    Took a police helicopter and armed cops to subdue it, like a rampaging terrorist. There are rumours online about the injuries sustained.

    The consistent problem is their ability to jump fences, so the policy of allowing them access to gardens even after the ban comes into place is not going to work.

    It's a bit circumstantial - a guy said he 'understood' it was a big dog and a 'friend' had told him it was an XL Bully.

    The problem is the owners. Also in saying to people that the issue is with the breed therefore implying all other dogs are safe. They are not in the wrong circumstances. The Dangerous Dogs Act is a bad piece of legislation and has not stopped the issues.
    No. The problem in this case is the owners AND the breed. The XL Bully is a dog specifically bred to be psychotically truculent, aggressive - and super powerful, and liable to flip any moment. Professional dog breeders have been killed and eaten by them

    What you’re saying is “it should be fine to walk around with a vintage WW2 flamethrower, if you know what you’re doing”

    We don’t allow that, because it’s ridiculous. Ditto here
    First of all, it would be good to get some facts. As @Carnyx says, there is a tendency for people to go "it's a big dog, it has to be a XL Bully" even when / if it's not (the initial hype is almost always not followed by a correction when it turns out the initial assumption is false).

    Second, the RSPCA, Battersea Dogs Home and the Royal Kennel Club have all said a ban is the wrong measure. We get enough on here about criticising people who 'don't listen to the experts' but it seems the only experts they want to hear are those they agree with (to be fair, you are not in that category but some who liked your comment are).

    Third, any dog is dangerous under the wrong conditions and it is wrong to encourage people to think there are safe breeds. You don't deal with them by the sound of things but plenty do and encouraging an attitude of 'it's a (e.g.) Lab, it must be nice' is the wrong way.
    The experts in this case - the RSPCA - are a bunch of hacks and shills who have been entirely captured by a bunch of crackpot dog dealers and owners. Like you

    Amazingly, the RSPCA wants to get ALL dangerous dog legislation repealed. Why? Wtf? How many mutilated children and dead people are acceptable, every year, so inadequate morons can walk around with the equivalent of a leopard on crystal meth, pleasantly called “Satan”?

    What’s more, the RSPCA itself won’t insure XL Bullies. Because it knows they are way too dangerous. So when it comes to actual hard money their tune changes entirely

    The RSPCA - and the other “dog charities” - have disgraced themselves on this
    Agreed. Animal charities have not covered themselves in glory over this.
    It's also really strange that they should choose this hill to fight and die on, when the large majority of victims of these hideous dogs are other dogs and cats (and their distraught owners). For every human killed or mutilated, maybe a hundred spaniels, chihauhas, tabbycats have been torn to shreds. It happens daily

    So why on earth should the RSPCA not care about *them*?

    Like I said, it seems to be a clear case of ideological capture by one particularly unsavoury lobby group
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,355

    Sandpit said:

    You can support the concept of ID cards but hate the proposed implementation of them under New Labour. There were not enough safeguards around data security.

    The creation of a separate “VIP database”, for MPs, their families, and senior officials, was the giveaway.
    For me the red flag was that my identity belonged to the card, not to me. If something happened to the data on card and it disagreed with my biometrics then I was the impostor. If the card is also used for almost everything (like phones are today) then I am instantly an outcast.

    Today's phone apps are a good comparison. If something goes wrong with (say) your ApplePay app people just say "It's not working", it is not a big deal. If you need documents to prove your identity, you can choose from a number of them. It all stays in my/your control.

    ID cards should not be given too much agency. At the end of the day if the card and I disagree then it is wrong and must be replaced. I am the living specification for my own identity.
    Absolutely this. I don't want to become an unperson because someone accidentally/maliciously messed up the database.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,067
    HYUFD said:

    Sunak and Starmer now have to make forced small talk for 5 minutes

    "Can you recommend any good moving companies ?"
  • Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Another XL Bully attack: https://www.halifaxcourier.co.uk/news/crime/dangerous-dog-police-confirm-armed-officers-shot-dog-dead-after-two-people-hurt-in-calderdale-village-attack-4400029

    Took a police helicopter and armed cops to subdue it, like a rampaging terrorist. There are rumours online about the injuries sustained.

    The consistent problem is their ability to jump fences, so the policy of allowing them access to gardens even after the ban comes into place is not going to work.

    It's a bit circumstantial - a guy said he 'understood' it was a big dog and a 'friend' had told him it was an XL Bully.

    The problem is the owners. Also in saying to people that the issue is with the breed therefore implying all other dogs are safe. They are not in the wrong circumstances. The Dangerous Dogs Act is a bad piece of legislation and has not stopped the issues.
    No. The problem in this case is the owners AND the breed. The XL Bully is a dog specifically bred to be psychotically truculent, aggressive - and super powerful, and liable to flip any moment. Professional dog breeders have been killed and eaten by them

    What you’re saying is “it should be fine to walk around with a vintage WW2 flamethrower, if you know what you’re doing”

    We don’t allow that, because it’s ridiculous. Ditto here
    First of all, it would be good to get some facts. As @Carnyx says, there is a tendency for people to go "it's a big dog, it has to be a XL Bully" even when / if it's not (the initial hype is almost always not followed by a correction when it turns out the initial assumption is false).

    Second, the RSPCA, Battersea Dogs Home and the Royal Kennel Club have all said a ban is the wrong measure. We get enough on here about criticising people who 'don't listen to the experts' but it seems the only experts they want to hear are those they agree with (to be fair, you are not in that category but some who liked your comment are).

    Third, any dog is dangerous under the wrong conditions and it is wrong to encourage people to think there are safe breeds. You don't deal with them by the sound of things but plenty do and encouraging an attitude of 'it's a (e.g.) Lab, it must be nice' is the wrong way.
    The experts in this case - the RSPCA - are a bunch of hacks and shills who have been entirely captured by a bunch of crackpot dog dealers and owners. Like you

    Amazingly, the RSPCA wants to get ALL dangerous dog legislation repealed. Why? Wtf? How many mutilated children and dead people are acceptable, every year, so inadequate morons can walk around with the equivalent of a leopard on crystal meth, pleasantly called “Satan”?

    What’s more, the RSPCA itself won’t insure XL Bullies. Because it knows they are way too dangerous. So when it comes to actual hard money their tune changes entirely

    The RSPCA - and the other “dog charities” - have disgraced themselves on this
    Some people have an almost religious belief in the idea that animals are good, humans are bad.
    Animals are animals. They're not good or bad, but they are all fantastic in my book .Humans can be good and bad, and both at the same time.
    We've set ourselves up as being the supreme being on the planet and we have to live with the consequences of that and if that means some poor fecker gets savaged by a dog that humans have engineered, then that's something we have to live (or die) with. By all means, destroy these problem engineered dog breeds, but don't go blaming the animal. Ultimately, it's our fault.
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,747

    Blimey, Germany's PMI is just 38.

    Brace in eurozone.

    Construction PMI, not one of the main PMI indicators. (Nevertheless, the German economy does face some real challenges).
    Collapsing demographics, rise of far right, and significant threat to its manufacturing base, to name but three.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,213

    nico679 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Restrictions on sales of cigarettes and increased powers for leaseholders to buy freeholds and remove punitive service charges and reforms for landlords to regain properties when needed.

    Is this restriction with cigarettes a back door way of forcing identity cards on everyone?
    I support ID cards , not sure why there’s so much controversy over this issue . They have them all over Europe without problems.
    For the 1,345,456th time.

    The problem with ID cards is not the id card. It’s not even the unique id number*
    It’s not even using the unique id number as a key in multiple databases.

    It’s the ludicrously unsafe idea of connecting all your personal data together and making it accessible to everyone in “government”

    This is exactly what was proposed, planned and was on he verge of being implanted with the last attempt at ID cards (killed by the coalition)

    Aside from being unsafe, unworkable and a few other things, it would be completely incompatible with data security legislation on the books.

    *which should actually be a ID code, with checksums etc.
    That and the slippery slope aspect - that some government would make is a legal requirement to carry it.
  • Andy_JS said:

    I think the King didn't enjoy reading most of that speech!

    I don’t doubt there were some bits that would raise an eyebrow, but the very point is that he has to drone on neutrally about it.

    His mother had to sing from the New Labour hymnbook for 13 years, before that she had to recite Thatcherite dogma, it’s just what comes with the territory.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405

    nico679 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Restrictions on sales of cigarettes and increased powers for leaseholders to buy freeholds and remove punitive service charges and reforms for landlords to regain properties when needed.

    Is this restriction with cigarettes a back door way of forcing identity cards on everyone?
    I support ID cards , not sure why there’s so much controversy over this issue . They have them all over Europe without problems.
    For the 1,345,456th time.

    The problem with ID cards is not the id card. It’s not even the unique id number*
    It’s not even using the unique id number as a key in multiple databases.

    It’s the ludicrously unsafe idea of connecting all your personal data together and making it accessible to everyone in “government”

    This is exactly what was proposed, planned and was on he verge of being implanted with the last attempt at ID cards (killed by the coalition)

    Aside from being unsafe, unworkable and a few other things, it would be completely incompatible with data security legislation on the books.

    *which should actually be a ID code, with checksums etc.
    Accept all that - do you know what is done on the continent in this regard?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    Relatedly:

    "A mum who thought the family dog - an XL bully - was "lovely" until it attacked her six-year-old son, has urged the government to adopt tighter laws 🔗⬇️"

    https://x.com/SkyNews/status/1721639083477172658?s=20

    At first:


    "There was "not a single sign" the dog could act in that way, she told Sky News.

    "There was no signs that she was aggressive towards children in any shape or form," she said.

    "She's very protective of people walking past the house, but outside of the house on walks, the street would fuss her, the kids in the village would all come and hug her. I thought she was lovely.""

    But then:

    "I've heard this growl and I've just ran and as I ran she's pinned [my six year old child] on the floor. I've gone on top of her, put my arms and legs around her and turned my body to throw her off," she said.

    "Honestly, I don't think she would have stopped until he was dead. I really, really don't."

    Knowing what could have happened to her son has been difficult.

    "To think that I could have just been out doing the washing or I could have been speaking to someone outside the front or anything," she added.

    "There was no warning signs. It wasn't like she was ever funny with the kids. She loved those kids. I would never risk my children's life like that for a dog."

    Before the incident, the woman had been A CRITIC of the UK government's ban on XL bully dogs."

    This is the crux. They flip out of nowhere: this is a psycho-dog, and its bite WILL kill

    Enough. Get it done
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,067
    viewcode said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:

    Blimey, Germany's PMI is just 38.

    Brace in eurozone.

    Ouch!

    Note to German government, you might want to throw everything at letting the Ukranians win the war, and not antagonise the Saudis by refusing to export Typhoons at the same time.
    A Saudi order doesn't help the Germans much as Saudi jets come off the British FAL. The German FAL will be busy with the 38 'Quadriga' jets for the GAF until 2027 so they don't have the same political hemorrhoid that's on the verge of bursting like the British do with the imminent end of Eurofighter production at Wharton. The UK government don't want to be forced into a follow on Typhoon order, as they surely would be if the alternative were shuttering Wharton, as that will fuck up Tempest which is already running on the whiff of an oily rag when it comes to finances.

    Airbus D&S would get to make 48 x centre fuselage sections in Germany for whatever that is worth.
    For those of you who don't speak DuraAce

    A Saudi order doesn't help the Germans much as because Saudi jets come off the British FAL final assembly line (where the jigsaw is assembled). The German FAL final assembly line will be busy with the 38 'Quadriga' jets 38 Typhoons built under a special German project for the GAF Luftwaffe until 2027, so they don't have the same political hemorrhoid that's on the verge of bursting like the British do with the imminent end of Eurofighter aircraft Typhoon production at Wharton BAE Wharton/Warton, a manufacturing plant in Lancashire.

    The UK government don't want to be forced into a follow on buying more Typhoons (because they're out-of-date), as they surely would be if the alternative were shuttering Wharton closing the plant, as because that will fuck up Tempest (the brand new successor aircraft that will be really good. Y'know. Like HS2) which is already running on the whiff of an oily rag when it comes to finances. underfunded and out of control.

    How's this chat going ?
    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/aug/11/saudi-arabia-asks-to-join-uk-italy-japan-joint-air-combat-programme-tempest-gcap
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,986

    Sandpit said:

    You can support the concept of ID cards but hate the proposed implementation of them under New Labour. There were not enough safeguards around data security.

    The creation of a separate “VIP database”, for MPs, their families, and senior officials, was the giveaway.
    For me the red flag was that my identity belonged to the card, not to me. If something happened to the data on card and it disagreed with my biometrics then I was the impostor. If the card is also used for almost everything (like phones are today) then I am instantly an outcast.

    Today's phone apps are a good comparison. If something goes wrong with (say) your ApplePay app people just say "It's not working", it is not a big deal. If you need documents to prove your identity, you can choose from a number of them. It all stays in my/your control.

    ID cards should not be given too much agency. At the end of the day if the card and I disagree then it is wrong and must be replaced. I am the living specification for my own identity.
    Whereas turn it on its head and it is a very sensible idea. By turn on its head I mean the underlying documents and data are the thing - like the credit card on Apple Pay or the airline boarding pass in Apple Wallet and we each have a single convenient card, or app, that links to all the ID information we need including passport data. Just scan your smartphone at the border when arriving in a new country and that immediately shares your visa status, or number of days in Schengen in last 180.

    Government can then access the aggregate anonymised data to help with public policy and planning of services.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,072
    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sunak and Starmer now have to make forced small talk for 5 minutes

    "Can you recommend any good moving companies ?"
    "So where are you looking at"
    "Well, the West Coast is nice, the wife likes it and the kids'll love it, but I don't think I'll like California. I want New York, but the prices are hideous. So it'll be some town in Cali - not San Fran obviously - but somewhere nice with a bit of culture. Well not too much, but it's nice to know it's there. I can't wait to be honest. Yourself?"
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,248

    nico679 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Restrictions on sales of cigarettes and increased powers for leaseholders to buy freeholds and remove punitive service charges and reforms for landlords to regain properties when needed.

    Is this restriction with cigarettes a back door way of forcing identity cards on everyone?
    I support ID cards , not sure why there’s so much controversy over this issue . They have them all over Europe without problems.
    For the 1,345,456th time.

    The problem with ID cards is not the id card. It’s not even the unique id number*
    It’s not even using the unique id number as a key in multiple databases.

    It’s the ludicrously unsafe idea of connecting all your personal data together and making it accessible to everyone in “government”

    This is exactly what was proposed, planned and was on he verge of being implanted with the last attempt at ID cards (killed by the coalition)

    Aside from being unsafe, unworkable and a few other things, it would be completely incompatible with data security legislation on the books.

    *which should actually be a ID code, with checksums etc.
    It would make sense to use the NI number which the vast majority of us have anyway.
    The NI numbers are a disaster - worse than the NHS ids. Tons of duplicates, mistakes, bogus applications.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Another XL Bully attack: https://www.halifaxcourier.co.uk/news/crime/dangerous-dog-police-confirm-armed-officers-shot-dog-dead-after-two-people-hurt-in-calderdale-village-attack-4400029

    Took a police helicopter and armed cops to subdue it, like a rampaging terrorist. There are rumours online about the injuries sustained.

    The consistent problem is their ability to jump fences, so the policy of allowing them access to gardens even after the ban comes into place is not going to work.

    It's a bit circumstantial - a guy said he 'understood' it was a big dog and a 'friend' had told him it was an XL Bully.

    The problem is the owners. Also in saying to people that the issue is with the breed therefore implying all other dogs are safe. They are not in the wrong circumstances. The Dangerous Dogs Act is a bad piece of legislation and has not stopped the issues.
    No. The problem in this case is the owners AND the breed. The XL Bully is a dog specifically bred to be psychotically truculent, aggressive - and super powerful, and liable to flip any moment. Professional dog breeders have been killed and eaten by them

    What you’re saying is “it should be fine to walk around with a vintage WW2 flamethrower, if you know what you’re doing”

    We don’t allow that, because it’s ridiculous. Ditto here
    First of all, it would be good to get some facts. As @Carnyx says, there is a tendency for people to go "it's a big dog, it has to be a XL Bully" even when / if it's not (the initial hype is almost always not followed by a correction when it turns out the initial assumption is false).

    Second, the RSPCA, Battersea Dogs Home and the Royal Kennel Club have all said a ban is the wrong measure. We get enough on here about criticising people who 'don't listen to the experts' but it seems the only experts they want to hear are those they agree with (to be fair, you are not in that category but some who liked your comment are).

    Third, any dog is dangerous under the wrong conditions and it is wrong to encourage people to think there are safe breeds. You don't deal with them by the sound of things but plenty do and encouraging an attitude of 'it's a (e.g.) Lab, it must be nice' is the wrong way.
    The experts in this case - the RSPCA - are a bunch of hacks and shills who have been entirely captured by a bunch of crackpot dog dealers and owners. Like you

    Amazingly, the RSPCA wants to get ALL dangerous dog legislation repealed. Why? Wtf? How many mutilated children and dead people are acceptable, every year, so inadequate morons can walk around with the equivalent of a leopard on crystal meth, pleasantly called “Satan”?

    What’s more, the RSPCA itself won’t insure XL Bullies. Because it knows they are way too dangerous. So when it comes to actual hard money their tune changes entirely

    The RSPCA - and the other “dog charities” - have disgraced themselves on this
    Some people have an almost religious belief in the idea that animals are good, humans are bad.
    Animals are animals. They're not good or bad, but they are all fantastic in my book .Humans can be good and bad, and both at the same time.
    We've set ourselves up as being the supreme being on the planet and we have to live with the consequences of that and if that means some poor fecker gets savaged by a dog that humans have engineered, then that's something we have to live (or die) with. By all means, destroy these problem engineered dog breeds, but don't go blaming the animal. Ultimately, it's our fault.
    Yes, it is absolutely our fault. And we have to fix it. Unfortunately, it means these poor dogs have to die and/or go extinct in the UK, which is a criminal shame

    Once the ban is in place HMG must really pursue the dog breeders, with vehemence
This discussion has been closed.