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East Kilbride SNP MP defects to the Tories – politicalbetting.com

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  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,187
    MaxPB said:

    DavidL said:

    Are people following the COVID-19 Inquiry? The recently released WhatsApp messages lay bare the degree of chaos and incompetence in the Johnson premiership: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-67101479

    In fairness what we are seeing being published is a lot of noise and tittle tattle. I really worry about how governments are going to operate if people cannot speak to each other freely without fear of subsequent publication. And is this not the sort of nonsense that we were told would not be published when the government lost their court case against the Chairman?
    Do everything in person with no notes taken. It is the natural consequence of airing messages that were supposed to stay private.
    Highlights perfectly the mediocre , stupid twats running (sic) the country. Is it any wonder it is a F***ed up sh**hole.
  • Options

    DavidL said:

    Are people following the COVID-19 Inquiry? The recently released WhatsApp messages lay bare the degree of chaos and incompetence in the Johnson premiership: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-67101479

    In fairness what we are seeing being published is a lot of noise and tittle tattle. I really worry about how governments are going to operate if people cannot speak to each other freely without fear of subsequent publication. And is this not the sort of nonsense that we were told would not be published when the government lost their court case against the Chairman?
    I don’t think it’s noise and tittle tattle. We know Cummings was a narcissistic nihilist. We know Johnson was a pathological liar with no interest in the hard work of governing. This was not a normal government. It was a fundamentally dysfunctional one.

    What we are learning now is how much that dysfunction impacted on the country’s response to COVID-19.
    Recently we had someone blaming EOTHO for the schools being closed even though the schools were open for the term after EOTHO.
  • Options
    boulayboulay Posts: 4,061
    Leon said:

    Frieze is busy. As busy as I’ve seen it in 15 years, perhaps

    A good sign for London

    Also it has this, which is about post-colonialism



    I can see why. The artist has masterfully placed an empty pair of shoes to symbolise the cynical way in which colonial masters said they would leave the colonies to stand on their own two feet but removed all the essential parts to allow it to work.

    The transparent chair is “The seat of Justice” where former colonies believed that they would be treated justly and compensated but it turned out that whilst the framework is there the will is transparently not there.

    The quasi-human frame made out of garbage represents how the colonial masters viewed their subjects as garbage. The genius artistic juxtaposition of literal garbage with metaphorical garbage whilst also sending a very clear message that this piece of artwork is garbage.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,749
    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    The Yes people not taking it well (Guardian)


    "Over on SBS, Professor Marcia Langton had some very straight talk:

    'It’s very clear that reconciliation is dead. A majority of Australians have said no to an invitation from Indigenous Australia, with a minimal proposition, to give us a bare say in matters that affect our lives, advice that doesn’t need to be taken by the Parliament.

    And a proposition that the vast majority of retired High Court judges and constitutional experts affirmed as being constitutionally safe, sound, and moreover, elegant and practical.

    I think the No campaigners have a lot to answer for in poisoning Australia against this proposition and against Indigenous Australia.'"

    Translation: Australians are horrible racist scum, UGH

    It's like BREXIT and Trump....."those fecking proles have got it wrong".
    Well they did on those two things and this one probably comes from the same locker. As for the reaction of the losers a balance needs to be struck. You should accept the result and (although tempting) avoid direct criticism of the electorate, but there's no obligation whatsoever to celebrate the triumph of what you consider to be ignorance laced with racism.
    You’ve not even read the proposals, is my bet
    What you think I'd come on here, come onto possibly the most judicious and erudite discussion forum on the internet, and start pontificating on a topic before I'd first gained a thorough understanding of it from a range of quality unbiased sources?

    Unbelievably crass and offensive suggestion.
    I quite admire your brave allegation of “ignorance”, in the circumstances
    Ignorance is Strength.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,187
    HYUFD said:



    1/ Yesterday, @StewartMcDonald said this on @TheScotsman’s Steamie podcast:

    “We know that the public believe a mandate exists, as per polling. In the paper I produced in February… two thirds of the public believe there is a mandate for an independence referendum.”

    2/ So… I went back to his paper to find out if that was true. This is the polling cited in @StewartMcDonald’s paper. What it actually said was that (in Nov/Dec 2022) 69% of the public believed there should be another independence referendum *some day*.

    3/ This is clearly not the same thing as two thirds of the public believing this Scottish Government has a mandate for a referendum.

    @StewartMcDonald is supposed to be the SNP’s cool-headed realist. If even he is kidding himself, the party truly is disconnected from reality.




    https://x.com/staylorish/status/1713150397865464166?s=20

    By the end of 2026 if Scottish Labour continues to gain from the SNP in polls, Sarwar could have replaced Yousaf as FM after the next Holyrood elections anyway. Killing indyref2 talk for a generation
    PMSL, lucky we have Scotch experts on here to enlighten us.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,187
    DavidL said:

    Are people following the COVID-19 Inquiry? The recently released WhatsApp messages lay bare the degree of chaos and incompetence in the Johnson premiership: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-67101479

    In fairness what we are seeing being published is a lot of noise and tittle tattle. I really worry about how governments are going to operate if people cannot speak to each other freely without fear of subsequent publication. And is this not the sort of nonsense that we were told would not be published when the government lost their court case against the Chairman?
    If they were competent and doing their job then they should have no fears of anything being open to the public. Just because Tories prefer a dictatorship with the public kept in the dark about how thick , vile and useless its wankers are does not make it correct.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,187
    darkage said:

    In the end food is not that expensive. You can cook yourself a meal for less than £1. An issue for really poor people is getting to a supermarket. In the town I live in many of them shop at the co-op which is notoriously expensive rather than walking up to Lidl or Asda (about 20 minute walk in each case). Getting to the foodbank involves a 5 mile journey to the ring road which would be a £4 roundtrip on the bus.

    Whenever someone like Lee Anderson points out that the problem can be solved by lessons in home economics there is a massive uproar but he is just saying what a lot of people believe. A lot could be gained by giving people more skills.

    Be some shit you were eating for a pound.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 40,059
    malcolmg said:

    darkage said:

    In the end food is not that expensive. You can cook yourself a meal for less than £1. An issue for really poor people is getting to a supermarket. In the town I live in many of them shop at the co-op which is notoriously expensive rather than walking up to Lidl or Asda (about 20 minute walk in each case). Getting to the foodbank involves a 5 mile journey to the ring road which would be a £4 roundtrip on the bus.

    Whenever someone like Lee Anderson points out that the problem can be solved by lessons in home economics there is a massive uproar but he is just saying what a lot of people believe. A lot could be gained by giving people more skills.

    Be some shit you were eating for a pound.
    Also, varying it from day to day to at least get some balance is going to be hard.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,087
    malcolmg said:

    DavidL said:

    Are people following the COVID-19 Inquiry? The recently released WhatsApp messages lay bare the degree of chaos and incompetence in the Johnson premiership: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-67101479

    In fairness what we are seeing being published is a lot of noise and tittle tattle. I really worry about how governments are going to operate if people cannot speak to each other freely without fear of subsequent publication. And is this not the sort of nonsense that we were told would not be published when the government lost their court case against the Chairman?
    If they were competent and doing their job then they should have no fears of anything being open to the public. Just because Tories prefer a dictatorship with the public kept in the dark about how thick , vile and useless its wankers are does not make it correct.
    It's not about things being kept in the dark. I believe inquiries should see this sort of data, and ultimately be made public.

    But what we inevitably see is salivating over inconsequential things which don't always speak to chaos and dysfunction, at least not above any regular organisation dealing with a crisis situation. In doing so the snippets showing genuine chaos and dysfunction will get missed next to Cummings saying something dumb or Case looking like a tit.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,187

    JPJ2 said:

    Forgot to point out, when writing about Lisa Cameron, that in terms of politically motivated threats (which I condemn), and which is always blamed on the SNP/independence supporters by unionists, as is so often the case, the real World experience indicates they are more sinned against than sinning
    e.g. William Curtis jailed for over 5 years for online threats to Nicola Sturgeon.

    The only significant actual physical violence being provided (there were successful prosecutions) was by unionists against nationalists in George Square after the 2014 referendum.

    A tiny minority that in no way represents proud yet tolerant British patriotism.

    Is the usual bullshit reply.

    The joyous and civil lads will doubtless enjoy the numerous joyous and civic replies to tweets by or involving Humza over the last few days
    The flag shaggers are ecstatic just now.
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,437

    DavidL said:

    Are people following the COVID-19 Inquiry? The recently released WhatsApp messages lay bare the degree of chaos and incompetence in the Johnson premiership: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-67101479

    In fairness what we are seeing being published is a lot of noise and tittle tattle. I really worry about how governments are going to operate if people cannot speak to each other freely without fear of subsequent publication. And is this not the sort of nonsense that we were told would not be published when the government lost their court case against the Chairman?
    I don’t think it’s noise and tittle tattle. We know Cummings was a narcissistic nihilist. We know Johnson was a pathological liar with no interest in the hard work of governing. This was not a normal government. It was a fundamentally dysfunctional one.

    What we are learning now is how much that dysfunction impacted on the country’s response to COVID-19.
    If Blair's sofa government had WhatsApp and we could read their messages, do you think there would be much difference?
    I don’t think the Blair government had a Cummings, a man who explicitly rejected democratic norms in favour of his revolutionary zeal, nor was Blair comparable to Johnson in terms of personal mendacity or laziness!
    Campbell? Although Blair was something of an ideological Blairite zealot.

    Johnson managed the nation by delegating authority to whoever was interested, so he could concentrate on procuring his next sh@g. It was about as unsatisfactory as governance could get.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 63,049
    Excellent account of the mechanics of an email scam.
    Note the key point is that even very careful people can get fooled if the email arrives at the 'right' time.

    Because I think it's important to share what happens when you make a total tit of yourself and (nearly, thank god) fall for a scam, here is the embarrassing story of what happened when I clicked on this:
    https://twitter.com/whippletom/status/1712887547087507777
  • Options
    TresTres Posts: 2,264
    nico679 said:

    The Australian referendum issue for yes was there wasn’t a clear plan for how they would implement the vote . One hopes this was the main reason for No winning and not depressingly that so many Aussies are racist .

    Not followed this closely, but I couldn't think of an obvious reason not to back this measure other than 'keep the abos in their place'. No doubt I am missing nuance.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,707
    Nigelb said:

    Excellent account of the mechanics of an email scam.
    Note the key point is that even very careful people can get fooled if the email arrives at the 'right' time.

    Because I think it's important to share what happens when you make a total tit of yourself and (nearly, thank god) fall for a scam, here is the embarrassing story of what happened when I clicked on this:
    https://twitter.com/whippletom/status/1712887547087507777

    Very similar to what happened to me. Luckily - like him - I realised. But quite late in proceedings

    They are exceedingly clever
  • Options
    JPJ2JPJ2 Posts: 378
    Carlotta Vance asks:

    "How did they do in Holyrood last time there was a Labour government in Westminster?"

    With Labour in power at Westminster in 2007, the SNP first came to power in the Holyrood election of 2007.

    It was touted as a freak result by the massed ranks of unionists who claimed that it was only the result of a perfect, never to be repeated, storm that had allowed the SNP to win that election.

    The reality is that the SNP never again, performed so badly in terms of Holyrood seats from that day to this, even unto seat predictions based on the very latest polling.




  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 50,015
    Well they’re happy running at 8 an over, my guess of 23 looks pretty much spot on right now - even if it might not in an hour’s time!
  • Options

    DavidL said:

    Are people following the COVID-19 Inquiry? The recently released WhatsApp messages lay bare the degree of chaos and incompetence in the Johnson premiership: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-67101479

    In fairness what we are seeing being published is a lot of noise and tittle tattle. I really worry about how governments are going to operate if people cannot speak to each other freely without fear of subsequent publication. And is this not the sort of nonsense that we were told would not be published when the government lost their court case against the Chairman?
    I don’t think it’s noise and tittle tattle. We know Cummings was a narcissistic nihilist. We know Johnson was a pathological liar with no interest in the hard work of governing. This was not a normal government. It was a fundamentally dysfunctional one.

    What we are learning now is how much that dysfunction impacted on the country’s response to COVID-19.
    If Blair's sofa government had WhatsApp and we could read their messages, do you think there would be much difference?
    I don’t think the Blair government had a Cummings, a man who explicitly rejected democratic norms in favour of his revolutionary zeal, nor was Blair comparable to Johnson in terms of personal mendacity or laziness!
    Campbell? Although Blair was something of an ideological Blairite zealot.

    Johnson managed the nation by delegating authority to whoever was interested, so he could concentrate on procuring his next sh@g. It was about as unsatisfactory as governance could get.
    Or sometimes, delegating his authority in order to procure his next sh@g.
  • Options
    Nigelb said:

    Excellent account of the mechanics of an email scam.
    Note the key point is that even very careful people can get fooled if the email arrives at the 'right' time.

    Because I think it's important to share what happens when you make a total tit of yourself and (nearly, thank god) fall for a scam, here is the embarrassing story of what happened when I clicked on this:
    https://twitter.com/whippletom/status/1712887547087507777

    Modern banking is so secure and yet not at all secure. Have had a couple of interactions with one of my business banks recently after they screwed some basic things up. Getting through security a nightmare - that I can't answer their standards letters x,y,z question makes them suspicious.

    But here's the problem. All these banks have endless different formats. Which means you either remember a stack of passwords and memorable words and similar, or you try to use the same ones, or you write them down.

    LLoyds (at group level, I don't bank with Lloyds as a brand) a bit arsey about it. And thats to say nothing about the fun* I have had getting an address format issue sorted. Like Monty Python's Gas Cooker Sketch for absurdity. With the sprinkles on top of the icing that they refused to accept the address. Of a property which they own. As being correct.
  • Options
    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Excellent account of the mechanics of an email scam.
    Note the key point is that even very careful people can get fooled if the email arrives at the 'right' time.

    Because I think it's important to share what happens when you make a total tit of yourself and (nearly, thank god) fall for a scam, here is the embarrassing story of what happened when I clicked on this:
    https://twitter.com/whippletom/status/1712887547087507777

    Very similar to what happened to me. Luckily - like him - I realised. But quite late in proceedings

    They are exceedingly clever
    Just hang up and call the bank yourself. Getting through to the "I've lost my card / been scammed" department is usually pretty quick, and they will sort it out. Don't do any substantial business with a call they make to you unless it is directly off the back of a call you made to them and its the same person.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,749
    edited October 2023
    kle4 said:

    DavidL said:

    Are people following the COVID-19 Inquiry? The recently released WhatsApp messages lay bare the degree of chaos and incompetence in the Johnson premiership: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-67101479

    In fairness what we are seeing being published is a lot of noise and tittle tattle. I really worry about how governments are going to operate if people cannot speak to each other freely without fear of subsequent publication. And is this not the sort of nonsense that we were told would not be published when the government lost their court case against the Chairman?
    There will be nuggets of substance in the reams of messaging revealed, maybe even a smoking gun on a few things.

    But off colour comments, jokes, people in high stress situations coming up with things on the fly or scrambling for options, and bitching about things? That's part of being human, just a peek at how things are without the slickness of the final presentation, and a lot of the time will be nothing to get worked up about.

    There won't be lessons to learn in every aspect.
    It has ensured one thing.

    That from now on, no politician of any brains, will set a WhatsApp group to other than auto-expire on the messages.

    For those who don’t know, there is an option to make all messages expire and disappear forever after a preset time - 24h, 7 days or 90 days.
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,914
    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Excellent account of the mechanics of an email scam.
    Note the key point is that even very careful people can get fooled if the email arrives at the 'right' time.

    Because I think it's important to share what happens when you make a total tit of yourself and (nearly, thank god) fall for a scam, here is the embarrassing story of what happened when I clicked on this:
    https://twitter.com/whippletom/status/1712887547087507777

    Very similar to what happened to me. Luckily - like him - I realised. But quite late in proceedings

    They are exceedingly clever
    Indeed. It's a huge shame they don't devote that cleverness to something legit. Surely they'd do very well?
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 50,015

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Excellent account of the mechanics of an email scam.
    Note the key point is that even very careful people can get fooled if the email arrives at the 'right' time.

    Because I think it's important to share what happens when you make a total tit of yourself and (nearly, thank god) fall for a scam, here is the embarrassing story of what happened when I clicked on this:
    https://twitter.com/whippletom/status/1712887547087507777

    Very similar to what happened to me. Luckily - like him - I realised. But quite late in proceedings

    They are exceedingly clever
    Just hang up and call the bank yourself. Getting through to the "I've lost my card / been scammed" department is usually pretty quick, and they will sort it out. Don't do any substantial business with a call they make to you unless it is directly off the back of a call you made to them and its the same person.
    Always remember that if they call you, *you* need to be asking *them* security questions, and not the other way around. A genuine customer service person at the bank understands this, and a fraud person at the bank will tag the system to put you straight through to the fraud team when you call them back. If you can, call them back from a different phone.

    Anyone who calls and tells you that “they” are in your app, or your phone, is a scammer.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,087
    Puts Rishi's record breaking swift rise to the premiership to shame.

    The opposition National Party has won the New Zealand election, taking enough seats to form a coalition with its allies on the right wing of politics.

    Incumbent prime minister Chris Hipkins, of Labour, phoned National's leader Chris Luxon to concede defeat.

    It marks a rapid elevation for Mr Luxon, who became an MP in 2020 and National leader only a year later.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-67110387
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,087
    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Excellent account of the mechanics of an email scam.
    Note the key point is that even very careful people can get fooled if the email arrives at the 'right' time.

    Because I think it's important to share what happens when you make a total tit of yourself and (nearly, thank god) fall for a scam, here is the embarrassing story of what happened when I clicked on this:
    https://twitter.com/whippletom/status/1712887547087507777

    Very similar to what happened to me. Luckily - like him - I realised. But quite late in proceedings

    They are exceedingly clever
    The emails themselves aren't - but they are just a kind of sieve to catch either the very foolish, or a coincidence with something you're actually expecting.

    I had a similar experience with an email and telephone banking recently, and thought I'd been scammed.
    Actually I hadn't; the email was genuine. It's just that the particular bank's security is rubbish, and their operatives seem to have been trained to sound like scammers.
    A common problem, it's like they are trying to sound sketchy.
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,437

    DavidL said:

    Are people following the COVID-19 Inquiry? The recently released WhatsApp messages lay bare the degree of chaos and incompetence in the Johnson premiership: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-67101479

    In fairness what we are seeing being published is a lot of noise and tittle tattle. I really worry about how governments are going to operate if people cannot speak to each other freely without fear of subsequent publication. And is this not the sort of nonsense that we were told would not be published when the government lost their court case against the Chairman?
    I don’t think it’s noise and tittle tattle. We know Cummings was a narcissistic nihilist. We know Johnson was a pathological liar with no interest in the hard work of governing. This was not a normal government. It was a fundamentally dysfunctional one.

    What we are learning now is how much that dysfunction impacted on the country’s response to COVID-19.
    If Blair's sofa government had WhatsApp and we could read their messages, do you think there would be much difference?
    I don’t think the Blair government had a Cummings, a man who explicitly rejected democratic norms in favour of his revolutionary zeal, nor was Blair comparable to Johnson in terms of personal mendacity or laziness!
    Campbell? Although Blair was something of an ideological Blairite zealot.

    Johnson managed the nation by delegating authority to whoever was interested, so he could concentrate on procuring his next sh@g. It was about as unsatisfactory as governance could get.
    Or sometimes, delegating his authority in order to procure his next sh@g.
    Such government by delegation would be Nut, Nuts.

    Tell me Miss Symonds, what did you see in the occasional millionaire, soon to be Prime Minister, Boris Johnson?
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,087

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Excellent account of the mechanics of an email scam.
    Note the key point is that even very careful people can get fooled if the email arrives at the 'right' time.

    Because I think it's important to share what happens when you make a total tit of yourself and (nearly, thank god) fall for a scam, here is the embarrassing story of what happened when I clicked on this:
    https://twitter.com/whippletom/status/1712887547087507777

    Very similar to what happened to me. Luckily - like him - I realised. But quite late in proceedings

    They are exceedingly clever
    Indeed. It's a huge shame they don't devote that cleverness to something legit. Surely they'd do very well?
    If its easier to scam some people will always take that option, even if they don't need to be scam.

    I've even seem prominent youtubers who scam their audiences deflect by saying they don't need to scam, which is true. Yet they do anyway.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 50,015
    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Excellent account of the mechanics of an email scam.
    Note the key point is that even very careful people can get fooled if the email arrives at the 'right' time.

    Because I think it's important to share what happens when you make a total tit of yourself and (nearly, thank god) fall for a scam, here is the embarrassing story of what happened when I clicked on this:
    https://twitter.com/whippletom/status/1712887547087507777

    Very similar to what happened to me. Luckily - like him - I realised. But quite late in proceedings

    They are exceedingly clever
    Indeed. It's a huge shame they don't devote that cleverness to something legit. Surely they'd do very well?
    If its easier to scam some people will always take that option, even if they don't need to be scam.

    I've even seem prominent youtubers who scam their audiences deflect by saying they don't need to scam, which is true. Yet they do anyway.
    Two of whom are, for some reason, fighting each other tonight. https://youtube.com/watch?v=j6u0LH67YLk
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,211
    kle4 said:

    Puts Rishi's record breaking swift rise to the premiership to shame.

    The opposition National Party has won the New Zealand election, taking enough seats to form a coalition with its allies on the right wing of politics.

    Incumbent prime minister Chris Hipkins, of Labour, phoned National's leader Chris Luxon to concede defeat.

    It marks a rapid elevation for Mr Luxon, who became an MP in 2020 and National leader only a year later.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-67110387

    Also a rare example of a business leader leading his party to election victory, Luxon was CEO of Air New Zealand and before that CEO of Unilever Canada before entering politics
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,087
    Sandpit said:

    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Excellent account of the mechanics of an email scam.
    Note the key point is that even very careful people can get fooled if the email arrives at the 'right' time.

    Because I think it's important to share what happens when you make a total tit of yourself and (nearly, thank god) fall for a scam, here is the embarrassing story of what happened when I clicked on this:
    https://twitter.com/whippletom/status/1712887547087507777

    Very similar to what happened to me. Luckily - like him - I realised. But quite late in proceedings

    They are exceedingly clever
    Indeed. It's a huge shame they don't devote that cleverness to something legit. Surely they'd do very well?
    If its easier to scam some people will always take that option, even if they don't need to be scam.

    I've even seem prominent youtubers who scam their audiences deflect by saying they don't need to scam, which is true. Yet they do anyway.
    Two of whom are, for some reason, fighting each other tonight. https://youtube.com/watch?v=j6u0LH67YLk
    I was watching that video earlier, hence the subject being on my mind. Logan Paul is one despicable human being, and seems in good company with Danis.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,211
    malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:



    1/ Yesterday, @StewartMcDonald said this on @TheScotsman’s Steamie podcast:

    “We know that the public believe a mandate exists, as per polling. In the paper I produced in February… two thirds of the public believe there is a mandate for an independence referendum.”

    2/ So… I went back to his paper to find out if that was true. This is the polling cited in @StewartMcDonald’s paper. What it actually said was that (in Nov/Dec 2022) 69% of the public believed there should be another independence referendum *some day*.

    3/ This is clearly not the same thing as two thirds of the public believing this Scottish Government has a mandate for a referendum.

    @StewartMcDonald is supposed to be the SNP’s cool-headed realist. If even he is kidding himself, the party truly is disconnected from reality.




    https://x.com/staylorish/status/1713150397865464166?s=20

    By the end of 2026 if Scottish Labour continues to gain from the SNP in polls, Sarwar could have replaced Yousaf as FM after the next Holyrood elections anyway. Killing indyref2 talk for a generation
    PMSL, lucky we have Scotch experts on here to enlighten us.
    Certainly possible however given the SNP are polling worse than they have for over a decade and are now tied with Labour on the latest polls and given the LDs would also back Sarwar as FM
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,211
    JPJ2 said:

    Carlotta Vance asks:

    "How did they do in Holyrood last time there was a Labour government in Westminster?"

    With Labour in power at Westminster in 2007, the SNP first came to power in the Holyrood election of 2007.

    It was touted as a freak result by the massed ranks of unionists who claimed that it was only the result of a perfect, never to be repeated, storm that had allowed the SNP to win that election.

    The reality is that the SNP never again, performed so badly in terms of Holyrood seats from that day to this, even unto seat predictions based on the very latest polling.




    The SNP lost 2/3 Holyrood elections last time Labour were in UK government and they also failed to win a majority in the third
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 50,015
    kle4 said:

    Sandpit said:

    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Excellent account of the mechanics of an email scam.
    Note the key point is that even very careful people can get fooled if the email arrives at the 'right' time.

    Because I think it's important to share what happens when you make a total tit of yourself and (nearly, thank god) fall for a scam, here is the embarrassing story of what happened when I clicked on this:
    https://twitter.com/whippletom/status/1712887547087507777

    Very similar to what happened to me. Luckily - like him - I realised. But quite late in proceedings

    They are exceedingly clever
    Indeed. It's a huge shame they don't devote that cleverness to something legit. Surely they'd do very well?
    If its easier to scam some people will always take that option, even if they don't need to be scam.

    I've even seem prominent youtubers who scam their audiences deflect by saying they don't need to scam, which is true. Yet they do anyway.
    Two of whom are, for some reason, fighting each other tonight. https://youtube.com/watch?v=j6u0LH67YLk
    I was watching that video earlier, hence the subject being on my mind. Logan Paul is one despicable human being, and seems in good company with Danis.
    They’ve both leveraged their impressionable online audiences to invest in some very dubious activities, and once SBF is convicted there’s going to be a massive US investigation into the whole ‘crypto’ industry.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 40,059
    Cyclefree said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "‘Angry’ lawyer warned against Post Office computer investigation in 2010 email
    Angered by his exclusion from an important discussion, former Royal Mail lawyer told colleagues of the risks to the Post Office if, as planned, they publicly investigate allegations against its computer system
    Karl Flinders, Chief reporter and senior editor EMEA"

    https://www.computerweekly.com/news/366555336/Angry-lawyer-warned-against-Post-Office-computer-investigation-in-2010-email

    "Top Post Office solicitor told colleagues: ‘Get on with prosecuting’
    By John Hyde"

    https://www.lawgazette.co.uk/news/top-post-office-solicitor-told-colleagues-get-on-with-prosecuting/5117538.article

    My thoughts on this are unprintable.
    "Investigations in Wilson’s team were largely carried out by former counter clerks with the Post Office, few of whom had any background in the law or law enforcement. Wilson admitted there was no system in place to regularly monitor their competence, and the 10-strong team dedicated to overseeing their casework had no lawyers."
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 50,015
    edited October 2023
    What’s Betfair saying about this cricket match?

    I say take the 1.01 on India. -as Rohit clocks 50.
  • Options
    Cyclefree said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "‘Angry’ lawyer warned against Post Office computer investigation in 2010 email
    Angered by his exclusion from an important discussion, former Royal Mail lawyer told colleagues of the risks to the Post Office if, as planned, they publicly investigate allegations against its computer system
    Karl Flinders, Chief reporter and senior editor EMEA"

    https://www.computerweekly.com/news/366555336/Angry-lawyer-warned-against-Post-Office-computer-investigation-in-2010-email

    "Top Post Office solicitor told colleagues: ‘Get on with prosecuting’
    By John Hyde"

    https://www.lawgazette.co.uk/news/top-post-office-solicitor-told-colleagues-get-on-with-prosecuting/5117538.article

    My thoughts on this are unprintable.
    CS Lewis springs to mind:

    My symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the offices of a thoroughly nasty business concern.

    When and why did the UK start becoming quite so thoroughly nasty? Not as a partisan thing, because I'm pretty sure it's been happening gradually for decades.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,191

    Cyclefree said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "‘Angry’ lawyer warned against Post Office computer investigation in 2010 email
    Angered by his exclusion from an important discussion, former Royal Mail lawyer told colleagues of the risks to the Post Office if, as planned, they publicly investigate allegations against its computer system
    Karl Flinders, Chief reporter and senior editor EMEA"

    https://www.computerweekly.com/news/366555336/Angry-lawyer-warned-against-Post-Office-computer-investigation-in-2010-email

    "Top Post Office solicitor told colleagues: ‘Get on with prosecuting’
    By John Hyde"

    https://www.lawgazette.co.uk/news/top-post-office-solicitor-told-colleagues-get-on-with-prosecuting/5117538.article

    My thoughts on this are unprintable.
    CS Lewis springs to mind:

    My symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the offices of a thoroughly nasty business concern.

    When and why did the UK start becoming quite so thoroughly nasty? Not as a partisan thing, because I'm pretty sure it's been happening gradually for decades.
    It's probably the same as it ever was; we just get to hear more about what is going on.

    But for a more pleasant thought; there are countless good deeds, large and small, done very day in this country. People don't rant about them on the Internet, but they're still there, all around us.
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,835
    Even wokiest Victoria is heading to 55:45 "No":

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/elections/referendum/2023/results?filter=all&sort=az&state=all&party=all

    Much more decisive than the Republic referendum.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,569

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    The Yes people not taking it well (Guardian)


    "Over on SBS, Professor Marcia Langton had some very straight talk:

    'It’s very clear that reconciliation is dead. A majority of Australians have said no to an invitation from Indigenous Australia, with a minimal proposition, to give us a bare say in matters that affect our lives, advice that doesn’t need to be taken by the Parliament.

    And a proposition that the vast majority of retired High Court judges and constitutional experts affirmed as being constitutionally safe, sound, and moreover, elegant and practical.

    I think the No campaigners have a lot to answer for in poisoning Australia against this proposition and against Indigenous Australia.'"

    Translation: Australians are horrible racist scum, UGH

    It's like BREXIT and Trump....."those fecking proles have got it wrong".
    Well they did on those two things and this one probably comes from the same locker. As for the reaction of the losers a balance needs to be struck. You should accept the result and (although tempting) avoid direct criticism of the electorate, but there's no obligation whatsoever to celebrate the triumph of what you consider to be ignorance laced with racism.
    You’ve not even read the proposals, is my bet
    What you think I'd come on here, come onto possibly the most judicious and erudite discussion forum on the internet, and start pontificating on a topic before I'd first gained a thorough understanding of it from a range of quality unbiased sources?

    Unbelievably crass and offensive suggestion.
    I quite admire your brave allegation of “ignorance”, in the circumstances
    Ignorance is Strength.
    Certainty doesn’t do our Leon any harm.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,569
    Cyclefree said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "‘Angry’ lawyer warned against Post Office computer investigation in 2010 email
    Angered by his exclusion from an important discussion, former Royal Mail lawyer told colleagues of the risks to the Post Office if, as planned, they publicly investigate allegations against its computer system
    Karl Flinders, Chief reporter and senior editor EMEA"

    https://www.computerweekly.com/news/366555336/Angry-lawyer-warned-against-Post-Office-computer-investigation-in-2010-email

    "Top Post Office solicitor told colleagues: ‘Get on with prosecuting’
    By John Hyde"

    https://www.lawgazette.co.uk/news/top-post-office-solicitor-told-colleagues-get-on-with-prosecuting/5117538.article

    My thoughts on this are unprintable.
    I remember Rob Wilson
  • Options

    Even wokiest Victoria is heading to 55:45 "No":

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/elections/referendum/2023/results?filter=all&sort=az&state=all&party=all

    Much more decisive than the Republic referendum.

    100% of states rejected the proposal.

    Not as divisive as it could have been, just a bad idea.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 50,015
    Cyclefree said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "‘Angry’ lawyer warned against Post Office computer investigation in 2010 email
    Angered by his exclusion from an important discussion, former Royal Mail lawyer told colleagues of the risks to the Post Office if, as planned, they publicly investigate allegations against its computer system
    Karl Flinders, Chief reporter and senior editor EMEA"

    https://www.computerweekly.com/news/366555336/Angry-lawyer-warned-against-Post-Office-computer-investigation-in-2010-email

    "Top Post Office solicitor told colleagues: ‘Get on with prosecuting’
    By John Hyde"

    https://www.lawgazette.co.uk/news/top-post-office-solicitor-told-colleagues-get-on-with-prosecuting/5117538.article

    My thoughts on this are unprintable.
    Oh, they’re printable. You have a website (and a new follower on Twitter/X).
  • Options
    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,251

    "That woman" (N. Sturgeon) from the UN being typically gracious:

    I thank First Minister @HumzaYousaf for taking the time to reassure women, such as those gathered at @FiLiA_charity conference, that they can meet without intimidation, particularly at a time when he has many pressing issues, including the safety of his parents-in-law and extended family. I hope his relatives stay safe and that they and the millions of civilians trapped in Gaza and those in Israel are spared further suffering·

    https://x.com/UNSRVAW/status/1713098644176453740?s=20

    She gave a fantastic presentation yesterday.
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,835
    edited October 2023
  • Options
    BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 18,822
    edited October 2023
    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Excellent account of the mechanics of an email scam.
    Note the key point is that even very careful people can get fooled if the email arrives at the 'right' time.

    Because I think it's important to share what happens when you make a total tit of yourself and (nearly, thank god) fall for a scam, here is the embarrassing story of what happened when I clicked on this:
    https://twitter.com/whippletom/status/1712887547087507777

    Very similar to what happened to me. Luckily - like him - I realised. But quite late in proceedings

    They are exceedingly clever
    Just hang up and call the bank yourself. Getting through to the "I've lost my card / been scammed" department is usually pretty quick, and they will sort it out. Don't do any substantial business with a call they make to you unless it is directly off the back of a call you made to them and its the same person.
    Always remember that if they call you, *you* need to be asking *them* security questions, and not the other way around. A genuine customer service person at the bank understands this, and a fraud person at the bank will tag the system to put you straight through to the fraud team when you call them back. If you can, call them back from a different phone.

    Anyone who calls and tells you that “they” are in your app, or your phone, is a scammer.
    BiB: Can't do that anymore, this is one area where GDPR is a major problem.

    I've had genuine calls before with them and you need to answer security questions to verify yourself before they will answer any questions or even tell you why they've called, turn it around and they'll say they can't due to GDPR.

    9/10 in a genuine call its not a problem as if you turn it around then they'll say "not a problem, just call us on a known number".

    The problem is certain departments, often eg for complaints/escalations, which make outgoing calls only.
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,835
    Cyclefree said:

    "That woman" (N. Sturgeon) from the UN being typically gracious:

    I thank First Minister @HumzaYousaf for taking the time to reassure women, such as those gathered at @FiLiA_charity conference, that they can meet without intimidation, particularly at a time when he has many pressing issues, including the safety of his parents-in-law and extended family. I hope his relatives stay safe and that they and the millions of civilians trapped in Gaza and those in Israel are spared further suffering·

    https://x.com/UNSRVAW/status/1713098644176453740?s=20

    She gave a fantastic presentation yesterday.
    I hope you enjoyed the tuneless cabaret out front!
  • Options
    glwglw Posts: 9,556

    Nigelb said:

    Excellent account of the mechanics of an email scam.
    Note the key point is that even very careful people can get fooled if the email arrives at the 'right' time.

    Because I think it's important to share what happens when you make a total tit of yourself and (nearly, thank god) fall for a scam, here is the embarrassing story of what happened when I clicked on this:
    https://twitter.com/whippletom/status/1712887547087507777

    Modern banking is so secure and yet not at all secure. Have had a couple of interactions with one of my business banks recently after they screwed some basic things up. Getting through security a nightmare - that I can't answer their standards letters x,y,z question makes them suspicious.

    But here's the problem. All these banks have endless different formats. Which means you either remember a stack of passwords and memorable words and similar, or you try to use the same ones, or you write them down.

    LLoyds (at group level, I don't bank with Lloyds as a brand) a bit arsey about it. And thats to say nothing about the fun* I have had getting an address format issue sorted. Like Monty Python's Gas Cooker Sketch for absurdity. With the sprinkles on top of the icing that they refused to accept the address. Of a property which they own. As being correct.
    Banks are absolutely rubbish at computer systems security. People always think "they look after lots of money, they must take security seriously" but by and large there is a huge amount of arse covering, rather than good security, and industry practices and standards that are often way out of date. It's bonkers for example than SMS 2FA has been rolled out in the UK to most customer bank accounts after organisations like NIST in the US have called for SMS to be abandoned as inherently insecure. In fact the entire landline/mobile telephone system should be considered insecure, and is only practically secured by bolting on a whole load of stuff like SHAKEN and STIR which effectively creates an internet carried second channel for authentication.

    I've said it before, it's ridiculous that a free email account will generally have better security than the place that has your money, your pension, your medical records.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 50,015

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Excellent account of the mechanics of an email scam.
    Note the key point is that even very careful people can get fooled if the email arrives at the 'right' time.

    Because I think it's important to share what happens when you make a total tit of yourself and (nearly, thank god) fall for a scam, here is the embarrassing story of what happened when I clicked on this:
    https://twitter.com/whippletom/status/1712887547087507777

    Very similar to what happened to me. Luckily - like him - I realised. But quite late in proceedings

    They are exceedingly clever
    Just hang up and call the bank yourself. Getting through to the "I've lost my card / been scammed" department is usually pretty quick, and they will sort it out. Don't do any substantial business with a call they make to you unless it is directly off the back of a call you made to them and its the same person.
    Always remember that if they call you, *you* need to be asking *them* security questions, and not the other way around. A genuine customer service person at the bank understands this, and a fraud person at the bank will tag the system to put you straight through to the fraud team when you call them back. If you can, call them back from a different phone.

    Anyone who calls and tells you that “they” are in your app, or your phone, is a scammer.
    BiB: Can't do that anymore, this is one area where GDPR is a major problem.

    I've had genuine calls before with them and you need to answer security questions to verify yourself before they will answer any questions or even tell you why they've called, turn it around and they'll say they can't due to GDPR.

    9/10 in a genuine call its not a problem as if you turn it around then they'll say "not a problem, just call us on a known number".

    The problem is certain departments, often eg for complaints/escalations, which make outgoing calls only.
    That’s their problem. Call them back on the number you have for them, preferably from a different phone to the one on which they called you. A genuine company with a CRM system will have a log of the call they made to you, and direct you back to them.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,211

    Even wokiest Victoria is heading to 55:45 "No":

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/elections/referendum/2023/results?filter=all&sort=az&state=all&party=all

    Much more decisive than the Republic referendum.

    Though the Republic referendum was still 10% No.

    The rejection of the Voice also probably kills off talk of a second Republic referendum in Australia for a generation.

    Had Yes won, Albanese would certainly have pushed for another referendum on the monarchy.

    The crushing defeat for Yes however means his government cannot risk another referendum anytime soon and first has to go back to the drawing board to find some other way of greater inclusion of aborigines in Australia
  • Options
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Excellent account of the mechanics of an email scam.
    Note the key point is that even very careful people can get fooled if the email arrives at the 'right' time.

    Because I think it's important to share what happens when you make a total tit of yourself and (nearly, thank god) fall for a scam, here is the embarrassing story of what happened when I clicked on this:
    https://twitter.com/whippletom/status/1712887547087507777

    Very similar to what happened to me. Luckily - like him - I realised. But quite late in proceedings

    They are exceedingly clever
    Just hang up and call the bank yourself. Getting through to the "I've lost my card / been scammed" department is usually pretty quick, and they will sort it out. Don't do any substantial business with a call they make to you unless it is directly off the back of a call you made to them and its the same person.
    Always remember that if they call you, *you* need to be asking *them* security questions, and not the other way around. A genuine customer service person at the bank understands this, and a fraud person at the bank will tag the system to put you straight through to the fraud team when you call them back. If you can, call them back from a different phone.

    Anyone who calls and tells you that “they” are in your app, or your phone, is a scammer.
    BiB: Can't do that anymore, this is one area where GDPR is a major problem.

    I've had genuine calls before with them and you need to answer security questions to verify yourself before they will answer any questions or even tell you why they've called, turn it around and they'll say they can't due to GDPR.

    9/10 in a genuine call its not a problem as if you turn it around then they'll say "not a problem, just call us on a known number".

    The problem is certain departments, often eg for complaints/escalations, which make outgoing calls only.
    That’s their problem. Call them back on the number you have for them, preferably from a different phone to the one on which they called you. A genuine company with a CRM system will have a log of the call they made to you, and direct you back to them.
    I was dealing with Sky recently who had royally ballsed-up my account and it ended up having to get escalated to a department which only makes outgoing calls and does not take either incoming calls or transfers. 🤦‍♂️
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 50,015
    glw said:

    Nigelb said:

    Excellent account of the mechanics of an email scam.
    Note the key point is that even very careful people can get fooled if the email arrives at the 'right' time.

    Because I think it's important to share what happens when you make a total tit of yourself and (nearly, thank god) fall for a scam, here is the embarrassing story of what happened when I clicked on this:
    https://twitter.com/whippletom/status/1712887547087507777

    Modern banking is so secure and yet not at all secure. Have had a couple of interactions with one of my business banks recently after they screwed some basic things up. Getting through security a nightmare - that I can't answer their standards letters x,y,z question makes them suspicious.

    But here's the problem. All these banks have endless different formats. Which means you either remember a stack of passwords and memorable words and similar, or you try to use the same ones, or you write them down.

    LLoyds (at group level, I don't bank with Lloyds as a brand) a bit arsey about it. And thats to say nothing about the fun* I have had getting an address format issue sorted. Like Monty Python's Gas Cooker Sketch for absurdity. With the sprinkles on top of the icing that they refused to accept the address. Of a property which they own. As being correct.
    Banks are absolutely rubbish at computer systems security. People always think "they look after lots of money, they must take security seriously" but by and large there is a huge amount of arse covering, rather than good security, and industry practices and standards that are often way out of date. It's bonkers for example than SMS 2FA has been rolled out in the UK to most customer bank accounts after organisations like NIST in the US have called for SMS to be abandoned as inherently insecure. In fact the entire landline/mobile telephone system should be considered insecure, and is only practically secured by bolting on a whole load of stuff like SHAKEN and STIR which effectively creates an internet carried second channel for authentication.

    I've said it before, it's ridiculous that a free email account will generally have better security than the place that has your money, your pension, your medical records.
    You’re on ProtonMail too then.

    The only think worse than SMS, is some sort of mobile app authentication, which is a total pain the arse that locks you out more than it helps you.

    There’s 2FA that works, such as Yubikey, which many of the banks are ignoring.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,707
    Eeesh

    Star of David graffiti in… Berlin


  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,211
    'BREAKING Indigenous Leaders across the country see no hope for reconciliation after tonight’s “tragic outcome”. An official mourning period begins now. Total media black out. Flags at half mast.

    “To our people we say: do not shed tears.

    This rejection was never for others to issue. The truth is that rejection was always ours to determine

    The truth is that we offered this recognition and it has been refused.

    We now know where we stand in this our own country.”
    https://x.com/ljayes/status/1713140016183132331?s=20
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,115
    edited October 2023
    HYUFD said:

    Even wokiest Victoria is heading to 55:45 "No":

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/elections/referendum/2023/results?filter=all&sort=az&state=all&party=all

    Much more decisive than the Republic referendum.

    Though the Republic referendum was still 10% No.

    The rejection of the Voice also probably kills off talk of a second Republic referendum in Australia for a generation.

    Had Yes won, Albanese would certainly have pushed for another referendum on the monarchy.

    The crushing defeat for Yes however means his government cannot risk another referendum anytime soon and first has to go back to the drawing board to find some other way of greater

    inclusion of aborigines in Australia
    Can we stop using the term ‘aborigines’ please, and either use a capital A or use some more respectful term such as First Australians.
  • Options
    OmniumOmnium Posts: 9,823

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Excellent account of the mechanics of an email scam.
    Note the key point is that even very careful people can get fooled if the email arrives at the 'right' time.

    Because I think it's important to share what happens when you make a total tit of yourself and (nearly, thank god) fall for a scam, here is the embarrassing story of what happened when I clicked on this:
    https://twitter.com/whippletom/status/1712887547087507777

    Very similar to what happened to me. Luckily - like him - I realised. But quite late in proceedings

    They are exceedingly clever
    Just hang up and call the bank yourself. Getting through to the "I've lost my card / been scammed" department is usually pretty quick, and they will sort it out. Don't do any substantial business with a call they make to you unless it is directly off the back of a call you made to them and its the same person.
    Always remember that if they call you, *you* need to be asking *them* security questions, and not the other way around. A genuine customer service person at the bank understands this, and a fraud person at the bank will tag the system to put you straight through to the fraud team when you call them back. If you can, call them back from a different phone.

    Anyone who calls and tells you that “they” are in your app, or your phone, is a scammer.
    BiB: Can't do that anymore, this is one area where GDPR is a major problem.

    I've had genuine calls before with them and you need to answer security questions to verify yourself before they will answer any questions or even tell you why they've called, turn it around and they'll say they can't due to GDPR.

    9/10 in a genuine call its not a problem as if you turn it around then they'll say "not a problem, just call us on a known number".

    The problem is certain departments, often eg for complaints/escalations, which make outgoing calls only.
    That’s their problem. Call them back on the number you have for them, preferably from a different phone to the one on which they called you. A genuine company with a CRM system will have a log of the call they made to you, and direct you back to them.
    I was dealing with Sky recently who had royally ballsed-up my account and it ended up having to get escalated to a department which only makes outgoing calls and does not take either incoming calls or transfers. 🤦‍♂️
    This whole no-reply thing is way out of hand. I've recently had to email board members of Electricity companies and phone providers (I don't know these people, but it works). I've also been trying to let the taxman know that I owe some CGT. I confess that I haven't quite chased the matter as above.
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,437
    IanB2 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "‘Angry’ lawyer warned against Post Office computer investigation in 2010 email
    Angered by his exclusion from an important discussion, former Royal Mail lawyer told colleagues of the risks to the Post Office if, as planned, they publicly investigate allegations against its computer system
    Karl Flinders, Chief reporter and senior editor EMEA"

    https://www.computerweekly.com/news/366555336/Angry-lawyer-warned-against-Post-Office-computer-investigation-in-2010-email

    "Top Post Office solicitor told colleagues: ‘Get on with prosecuting’
    By John Hyde"

    https://www.lawgazette.co.uk/news/top-post-office-solicitor-told-colleagues-get-on-with-prosecuting/5117538.article

    My thoughts on this are unprintable.
    I remember Rob Wilson
    Former Arsenal and Scotland goalkeeper?

    Oh sorry that was Bob. Related to Matt Hancock's latest squeeze nonetheless.
  • Options
    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,251
    edited October 2023

    DavidL said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "‘Angry’ lawyer warned against Post Office computer investigation in 2010 email
    Angered by his exclusion from an important discussion, former Royal Mail lawyer told colleagues of the risks to the Post Office if, as planned, they publicly investigate allegations against its computer system
    Karl Flinders, Chief reporter and senior editor EMEA"

    https://www.computerweekly.com/news/366555336/Angry-lawyer-warned-against-Post-Office-computer-investigation-in-2010-email

    "Top Post Office solicitor told colleagues: ‘Get on with prosecuting’
    By John Hyde"

    https://www.lawgazette.co.uk/news/top-post-office-solicitor-told-colleagues-get-on-with-prosecuting/5117538.article

    The story gets worse and worse.
    Stunning.

    If the Inquiry does its work properly, and it is followed up rigorously, we can expect to see hundreds in court facing charges of perjury and attempting to pervert the course of justice.
    In my bid for the most blatant statement of the obvious this morning, I would comment that I wouldn't count on it. It is one of the worst failures of our justice system in history but it will be swept away with very few, if any, being actually held to account.
    You may well be right, David.

    There are some senior judges and other pillars of the establishment who don't come out of it too well.

    We'll see. At present the case for multiple charges of perjury and perverting the course of justice looks overwhelming.
    This ought to be meat and drink for Starmer. And if Sunak REALLY wants to present himself as a break with the past he could take it seriously. What is stopping them? Do we have to wait for all the drama to finish playing out?
    I'll tell you why - because politicians of all parties have been responsible for this utter shitshow. There has been a total failure of governmental governance over, accountability and responsibility for a state owned entity - and this continues to be the case.

    And this is also the case in relation to the criminal justice system.

    Politicians' failures are not (is this a surprise? No of course it isn't) within scope of the Williams Inquiry. So it will be left to others - yes, me - to point these out. For all the good it will do.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,707
    The Aussie Ref could end up around 62/38

    NO keeps inching further ahead and I’m guessing most votes still to count will be more remote NO heavy spots in WA etc

    That’s a crushing defeat. A colossal error
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 50,015

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Excellent account of the mechanics of an email scam.
    Note the key point is that even very careful people can get fooled if the email arrives at the 'right' time.

    Because I think it's important to share what happens when you make a total tit of yourself and (nearly, thank god) fall for a scam, here is the embarrassing story of what happened when I clicked on this:
    https://twitter.com/whippletom/status/1712887547087507777

    Very similar to what happened to me. Luckily - like him - I realised. But quite late in proceedings

    They are exceedingly clever
    Just hang up and call the bank yourself. Getting through to the "I've lost my card / been scammed" department is usually pretty quick, and they will sort it out. Don't do any substantial business with a call they make to you unless it is directly off the back of a call you made to them and its the same person.
    Always remember that if they call you, *you* need to be asking *them* security questions, and not the other way around. A genuine customer service person at the bank understands this, and a fraud person at the bank will tag the system to put you straight through to the fraud team when you call them back. If you can, call them back from a different phone.

    Anyone who calls and tells you that “they” are in your app, or your phone, is a scammer.
    BiB: Can't do that anymore, this is one area where GDPR is a major problem.

    I've had genuine calls before with them and you need to answer security questions to verify yourself before they will answer any questions or even tell you why they've called, turn it around and they'll say they can't due to GDPR.

    9/10 in a genuine call its not a problem as if you turn it around then they'll say "not a problem, just call us on a known number".

    The problem is certain departments, often eg for complaints/escalations, which make outgoing calls only.
    That’s their problem. Call them back on the number you have for them, preferably from a different phone to the one on which they called you. A genuine company with a CRM system will have a log of the call they made to you, and direct you back to them.
    I was dealing with Sky recently who had royally ballsed-up my account and it ended up having to get escalated to a department which only makes outgoing calls and does not take either incoming calls or transfers. 🤦‍♂️
    Sky are a property sh!tty company to deal with, especially if you want to cancel services - but the same rules apply. If they call you, and start asking ‘security’ questions of you, then it’s a scam.

    Send them a letter by registered post, with a copy to the OFT/CMA.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,492

    kle4 said:

    DavidL said:

    Are people following the COVID-19 Inquiry? The recently released WhatsApp messages lay bare the degree of chaos and incompetence in the Johnson premiership: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-67101479

    In fairness what we are seeing being published is a lot of noise and tittle tattle. I really worry about how governments are going to operate if people cannot speak to each other freely without fear of subsequent publication. And is this not the sort of nonsense that we were told would not be published when the government lost their court case against the Chairman?
    There will be nuggets of substance in the reams of messaging revealed, maybe even a smoking gun on a few things.

    But off colour comments, jokes, people in high stress situations coming up with things on the fly or scrambling for options, and bitching about things? That's part of being human, just a peek at how things are without the slickness of the final presentation, and a lot of the time will be nothing to get worked up about.

    There won't be lessons to learn in every aspect.
    It has ensured one thing.

    That from now on, no politician of any brains, will set a WhatsApp group to other than auto-expire on the messages.

    For those who don’t know, there is an option to make all messages expire and disappear forever after a preset time - 24h, 7 days or 90 days.
    Even I do that and who the hell cares what I think?
  • Options
    Cyclefree said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "‘Angry’ lawyer warned against Post Office computer investigation in 2010 email
    Angered by his exclusion from an important discussion, former Royal Mail lawyer told colleagues of the risks to the Post Office if, as planned, they publicly investigate allegations against its computer system
    Karl Flinders, Chief reporter and senior editor EMEA"

    https://www.computerweekly.com/news/366555336/Angry-lawyer-warned-against-Post-Office-computer-investigation-in-2010-email

    "Top Post Office solicitor told colleagues: ‘Get on with prosecuting’
    By John Hyde"

    https://www.lawgazette.co.uk/news/top-post-office-solicitor-told-colleagues-get-on-with-prosecuting/5117538.article

    My thoughts on this are unprintable.
    Since this is a betting site, maybe we could put up a spread on the number of Post Office people that finish up on charges of perjury and/or attempting to pervert the course of justice. I'd go for something in the region of 200, but you would probably know better.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,211
    Concerning

    @visegrad24
    As part of an intimidation campaign, some people in Berlin have started marking the buildings where Jews live
    https://x.com/visegrad24/status/1713117100426895810?s=20
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,707

    HYUFD said:

    Even wokiest Victoria is heading to 55:45 "No":

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/elections/referendum/2023/results?filter=all&sort=az&state=all&party=all

    Much more decisive than the Republic referendum.

    Though the Republic referendum was still 10% No.

    The rejection of the Voice also probably kills off talk of a second Republic referendum in Australia for a generation.

    Had Yes won, Albanese would certainly have pushed for another referendum on the monarchy.

    The crushing defeat for Yes however means his government cannot risk another referendum anytime soon and first has to go back to the drawing board to find some other way of greater

    inclusion of aborigines in Australia
    Can we stop using the term ‘aborigines’ please, and either use a capital A or use some more respectful term such as First Australians.
    Australians often use the term

    They also use words like “blackfella” which is apparently fine
  • Options
    Sandpit said:

    What’s Betfair saying about this cricket match?

    I say take the 1.01 on India. -as Rohit clocks 50.

    Betfair is saying £100 million matched on that cricket match.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,211

    HYUFD said:

    Even wokiest Victoria is heading to 55:45 "No":

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/elections/referendum/2023/results?filter=all&sort=az&state=all&party=all

    Much more decisive than the Republic referendum.

    Though the Republic referendum was still 10% No.

    The rejection of the Voice also probably kills off talk of a second Republic referendum in Australia for a generation.

    Had Yes won, Albanese would certainly have pushed for another referendum on the monarchy.

    The crushing defeat for Yes however means his government cannot risk another referendum anytime soon and first has to go back to the drawing board to find some other way of greater

    inclusion of aborigines in Australia
    Can we stop using the term ‘aborigines’ please, and either use a capital A or use some more respectful term such as First Australians.
    Well clearly most Australians have just decided not to privilege them with a capital A or as 'First Australians' but to just keep them as aborigines with no special voice in Parliament over other Australians given the rejection of the Voice
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,087
    HYUFD said:

    Concerning

    @visegrad24
    As part of an intimidation campaign, some people in Berlin have started marking the buildings where Jews live
    https://x.com/visegrad24/status/1713117100426895810?s=20

    And some people wonder why so much information about the holocaust and what led to it still needs to be emphasised every year.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 50,015
    .

    Sandpit said:

    What’s Betfair saying about this cricket match?

    I say take the 1.01 on India. -as Rohit clocks 50.

    Betfair is saying £100 million matched on that cricket match.
    Wow. Biggest cricket betting event in history?
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,707
    Breaking: The Louvre museum in Paris has been excavated due to a bomb threat after Hamas called for a ‘Day of Jihad’ across the world.

    France remains on maximum terror alert today one day after an Islamic knife man stabbed to death a teacher outside a school.

    Source: Metro
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,087

    Sandpit said:

    What’s Betfair saying about this cricket match?

    I say take the 1.01 on India. -as Rohit clocks 50.

    Betfair is saying £100 million matched on that cricket match.
    Not this one?

    https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/chile-women-in-argentina-2023-24-1402761/argentina-women-vs-chile-women-1st-t20i-1402764/full-scorecard
  • Options
    glwglw Posts: 9,556
    Sandpit said:

    You’re on ProtonMail too then.

    The only think worse than SMS, is some sort of mobile app authentication, which is a total pain the arse that locks you out more than it helps you.

    There’s 2FA that works, such as Yubikey, which many of the banks are ignoring.

    Banks pick the lowest cost option — for them and only in terms of implementation costs — that meets regulations.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,087
    DavidL said:

    kle4 said:

    DavidL said:

    Are people following the COVID-19 Inquiry? The recently released WhatsApp messages lay bare the degree of chaos and incompetence in the Johnson premiership: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-67101479

    In fairness what we are seeing being published is a lot of noise and tittle tattle. I really worry about how governments are going to operate if people cannot speak to each other freely without fear of subsequent publication. And is this not the sort of nonsense that we were told would not be published when the government lost their court case against the Chairman?
    There will be nuggets of substance in the reams of messaging revealed, maybe even a smoking gun on a few things.

    But off colour comments, jokes, people in high stress situations coming up with things on the fly or scrambling for options, and bitching about things? That's part of being human, just a peek at how things are without the slickness of the final presentation, and a lot of the time will be nothing to get worked up about.

    There won't be lessons to learn in every aspect.
    It has ensured one thing.

    That from now on, no politician of any brains, will set a WhatsApp group to other than auto-expire on the messages.

    For those who don’t know, there is an option to make all messages expire and disappear forever after a preset time - 24h, 7 days or 90 days.
    Even I do that and who the hell cares what I think?
    We all do, M'Lud.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 50,015
    Okay, I got it wrong. After over 23 they’re still 31 runs short. But no-one claimed over 27, so I’m now going for that!
  • Options
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Excellent account of the mechanics of an email scam.
    Note the key point is that even very careful people can get fooled if the email arrives at the 'right' time.

    Because I think it's important to share what happens when you make a total tit of yourself and (nearly, thank god) fall for a scam, here is the embarrassing story of what happened when I clicked on this:
    https://twitter.com/whippletom/status/1712887547087507777

    Very similar to what happened to me. Luckily - like him - I realised. But quite late in proceedings

    They are exceedingly clever
    Just hang up and call the bank yourself. Getting through to the "I've lost my card / been scammed" department is usually pretty quick, and they will sort it out. Don't do any substantial business with a call they make to you unless it is directly off the back of a call you made to them and its the same person.
    Always remember that if they call you, *you* need to be asking *them* security questions, and not the other way around. A genuine customer service person at the bank understands this, and a fraud person at the bank will tag the system to put you straight through to the fraud team when you call them back. If you can, call them back from a different phone.

    Anyone who calls and tells you that “they” are in your app, or your phone, is a scammer.
    BiB: Can't do that anymore, this is one area where GDPR is a major problem.

    I've had genuine calls before with them and you need to answer security questions to verify yourself before they will answer any questions or even tell you why they've called, turn it around and they'll say they can't due to GDPR.

    9/10 in a genuine call its not a problem as if you turn it around then they'll say "not a problem, just call us on a known number".

    The problem is certain departments, often eg for complaints/escalations, which make outgoing calls only.
    That’s their problem. Call them back on the number you have for them, preferably from a different phone to the one on which they called you. A genuine company with a CRM system will have a log of the call they made to you, and direct you back to them.
    I was dealing with Sky recently who had royally ballsed-up my account and it ended up having to get escalated to a department which only makes outgoing calls and does not take either incoming calls or transfers. 🤦‍♂️
    Sky are a property sh!tty company to deal with, especially if you want to cancel services - but the same rules apply. If they call you, and start asking ‘security’ questions of you, then it’s a scam.

    Send them a letter by registered post, with a copy to the OFT/CMA.
    That's my point, this wasn't.

    I was horrified recently to look at my credit file and see a default on it from Sky, despite the fact the account like all my accounts is on Direct Debit and my Sky account online shows it is up to date and I owed them no money.

    Called up, spoke to cancellation department (only Sky department to actually do anything) and they got to the bottom of it. I'd bought some children's smart watches for my girls just before we moved and somehow their system had applied the financing onto a separate account in my name and old address, so not showing on my account and Direct Debit wasn't paying it.

    Only way to get the default reversed was to speak to a specialist department which would call me back after a few days that only make outgoing calls and don't take transfers. So when they called I had no choice but to answer my security questions to them.

    Thankfully default got reversed in full and I was given an apology and compensation for it too, but deeply concerning.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,949
    HYUFD said:

    Even wokiest Victoria is heading to 55:45 "No":

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/elections/referendum/2023/results?filter=all&sort=az&state=all&party=all

    Much more decisive than the Republic referendum.

    Though the Republic referendum was still 10% No.

    The rejection of the Voice also probably kills off talk of a second Republic referendum in Australia for a generation.

    Had Yes won, Albanese would certainly have pushed for another referendum on the monarchy.

    The crushing defeat for Yes however means his government cannot risk another referendum anytime soon and first has to go back to the drawing board to find some other way of greater inclusion of aborigines in Australia
    Considering Australian Aborigines were only granted the right to vote in 1962 they should be grateful to be included at all!
  • Options
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Even wokiest Victoria is heading to 55:45 "No":

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/elections/referendum/2023/results?filter=all&sort=az&state=all&party=all

    Much more decisive than the Republic referendum.

    Though the Republic referendum was still 10% No.

    The rejection of the Voice also probably kills off talk of a second Republic referendum in Australia for a generation.

    Had Yes won, Albanese would certainly have pushed for another referendum on the monarchy.

    The crushing defeat for Yes however means his government cannot risk another referendum anytime soon and first has to go back to the drawing board to find some other way of greater

    inclusion of aborigines in Australia
    Can we stop using the term ‘aborigines’ please, and either use a capital A or use some more respectful term such as First Australians.
    Well clearly most Australians have just decided not to privilege them with a capital A or as 'First Australians' but to just keep them as aborigines with no special voice in Parliament over other Australians given the rejection of the Voice
    I am not feeling the greatest today, but your comment is simply disgusting and you a so called Christian

    Shame on you
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 19,137
    It's more significant than you think, but not in the way that you think.

    The Guardian article you link to is written by Ramon Antonia Vargas, the weekend editor of the American version of the Guardian, "Guardian US". It has a consistent pro-trans slant. This is in contradistinction to the Sunday version of the Guardian, "The Observer", whose chief leader writer is Sonia Sodha, which has an equally consistent anti-trans slant.

    Problem is, both newspapers share the same website.

    This means that in theory, one day one newspaper will investigate the other for its stance and the other one will counterinvestigate.

    On the same day. On the same website.

    :):):)
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,707
    Gare du Lyon also evacuated after "suspicious package" found

    France is extremely jittery
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 19,137
    ...
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,707
  • Options
    darkagedarkage Posts: 4,803
    viewcode said:

    This ought to be meat and drink for Starmer. And if Sunak REALLY wants to present himself as a break with the past he could take it seriously. What is stopping them? Do we have to wait for all the drama to finish playing out?

    Because they don't know, don't care, and aren't particularly interested. It's a little people problem. It's not big or fancy or in danger of destroying Western civilisation. It's not in the newspapers or the online stuff. GBNews doesn't care. Triggernometry are not concerned. UnHerd has not had multiple articles. Spiked is not engaged. The chattering classes do not care. It's just a thing with normal ordinary people, some of whom have had their lives destroyed.
    The woman who was in charge of the post office has been cancelled - maybe she should go on triggernometry?
  • Options
    CatManCatMan Posts: 2,813
    kle4 said:

    Sandpit said:

    What’s Betfair saying about this cricket match?

    I say take the 1.01 on India. -as Rohit clocks 50.

    Betfair is saying £100 million matched on that cricket match.
    Not this one?

    https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/chile-women-in-argentina-2023-24-1402761/argentina-women-vs-chile-women-1st-t20i-1402764/full-scorecard
    I can score that in Cricket 22 no problem
  • Options
    Leon said:
    It is reassuring to know that when Armageddon finally kicks off, we on PB will have advance warning from you, Leon.

    Now will you please stop wetting your knickers and go and knapp some flints.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 50,015
    Okay, so they’re going to run the last couple of dozen runs slowly.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,707

    Leon said:
    It is reassuring to know that when Armageddon finally kicks off, we on PB will have advance warning from you, Leon.

    Now will you please stop wetting your knickers and go and knapp some flints.
    I'm calmly sipping a coffee in the Regent's Park sunshine, in between visits to Frieze London and Frieze Masters
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,115
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Even wokiest Victoria is heading to 55:45 "No":

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/elections/referendum/2023/results?filter=all&sort=az&state=all&party=all

    Much more decisive than the Republic referendum.

    Though the Republic referendum was still 10% No.

    The rejection of the Voice also probably kills off talk of a second Republic referendum in Australia for a generation.

    Had Yes won, Albanese would certainly have pushed for another referendum on the monarchy.

    The crushing defeat for Yes however means his government cannot risk another referendum anytime soon and first has to go back to the drawing board to find some other way of greater

    inclusion of aborigines in Australia
    Can we stop using the term ‘aborigines’ please, and either use a capital A or use some more respectful term such as First Australians.
    Well clearly most Australians have just decided not to privilege them with a capital A or as 'First Australians' but to just keep them as aborigines with no special voice in Parliament over other Australians given the rejection of the Voice
    Just because ‘our colonial cousins’ are ill-mannered doesn’t mean we have to be!

    One of my half-Thai grandchildren is heading, she hopes, for Melbourne University. I wonder if I should try to dissuade her?
  • Options
    BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 18,822
    edited October 2023
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Even wokiest Victoria is heading to 55:45 "No":

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/elections/referendum/2023/results?filter=all&sort=az&state=all&party=all

    Much more decisive than the Republic referendum.

    Though the Republic referendum was still 10% No.

    The rejection of the Voice also probably kills off talk of a second Republic referendum in Australia for a generation.

    Had Yes won, Albanese would certainly have pushed for another referendum on the monarchy.

    The crushing defeat for Yes however means his government cannot risk another referendum anytime soon and first has to go back to the drawing board to find some other way of greater

    inclusion of aborigines in Australia
    Can we stop using the term ‘aborigines’ please, and either use a capital A or use some more respectful term such as First Australians.
    Well clearly most Australians have just decided not to privilege them with a capital A or as 'First Australians' but to just keep them as aborigines with no special voice in Parliament over other Australians given the rejection of the Voice
    Treating Aboriginals with respect and starting a proper noun with a capital letter wasn't on the ballot paper. 🤦‍♂️
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 40,059

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Even wokiest Victoria is heading to 55:45 "No":

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/elections/referendum/2023/results?filter=all&sort=az&state=all&party=all

    Much more decisive than the Republic referendum.

    Though the Republic referendum was still 10% No.

    The rejection of the Voice also probably kills off talk of a second Republic referendum in Australia for a generation.

    Had Yes won, Albanese would certainly have pushed for another referendum on the monarchy.

    The crushing defeat for Yes however means his government cannot risk another referendum anytime soon and first has to go back to the drawing board to find some other way of greater

    inclusion of aborigines in Australia
    Can we stop using the term ‘aborigines’ please, and either use a capital A or use some more respectful term such as First Australians.
    Well clearly most Australians have just decided not to privilege them with a capital A or as 'First Australians' but to just keep them as aborigines with no special voice in Parliament over other Australians given the rejection of the Voice
    Just because ‘our colonial cousins’ are ill-mannered doesn’t mean we have to be!

    One of my half-Thai grandchildren is heading, she hopes, for Melbourne University. I wonder if I should try to dissuade her?
    I dud wonder when reading HYUFD how he knows that "clearly most Australians have just decided not to privilege them with a capital A", Is it when he hears Australians talking? Does the Australian accent capitalise words? Did the referendum ask a question, does Aborigine have a capital A or not when it's not at the start of a sentence?
  • Options

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Even wokiest Victoria is heading to 55:45 "No":

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/elections/referendum/2023/results?filter=all&sort=az&state=all&party=all

    Much more decisive than the Republic referendum.

    Though the Republic referendum was still 10% No.

    The rejection of the Voice also probably kills off talk of a second Republic referendum in Australia for a generation.

    Had Yes won, Albanese would certainly have pushed for another referendum on the monarchy.

    The crushing defeat for Yes however means his government cannot risk another referendum anytime soon and first has to go back to the drawing board to find some other way of greater

    inclusion of aborigines in Australia
    Can we stop using the term ‘aborigines’ please, and either use a capital A or use some more respectful term such as First Australians.
    Well clearly most Australians have just decided not to privilege them with a capital A or as 'First Australians' but to just keep them as aborigines with no special voice in Parliament over other Australians given the rejection of the Voice
    Just because ‘our colonial cousins’ are ill-mannered doesn’t mean we have to be!

    One of my half-Thai grandchildren is heading, she hopes, for Melbourne University. I wonder if I should try to dissuade her?
    No.

    HYUFD no more speaks for Australians than he speaks for Red Wallers.

    He projects his own racism onto others quite routinely.
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 19,137
    Some of you are interested in AI generated images and voices

    Try this BBC quiz. 8 images/vids. Which are real, and which is AI?

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/bitesize/articles/zj3rjfr
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,949
    edited October 2023

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Even wokiest Victoria is heading to 55:45 "No":

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/elections/referendum/2023/results?filter=all&sort=az&state=all&party=all

    Much more decisive than the Republic referendum.

    Though the Republic referendum was still 10% No.

    The rejection of the Voice also probably kills off talk of a second Republic referendum in Australia for a generation.

    Had Yes won, Albanese would certainly have pushed for another referendum on the monarchy.

    The crushing defeat for Yes however means his government cannot risk another referendum anytime soon and first has to go back to the drawing board to find some other way of greater

    inclusion of aborigines in Australia
    Can we stop using the term ‘aborigines’ please, and either use a capital A or use some more respectful term such as First Australians.
    Well clearly most Australians have just decided not to privilege them with a capital A or as 'First Australians' but to just keep them as aborigines with no special voice in Parliament over other Australians given the rejection of the Voice
    Just because ‘our colonial cousins’ are ill-mannered doesn’t mean we have to be!

    One of my half-Thai grandchildren is heading, she hopes, for Melbourne University. I wonder if I should try to dissuade her?
    No. Its a great city and university.

    Melbourne voted 78% for The Voice.

    https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/ng-interactive/2023/oct/14/live-voice-referendum-results-2023-tracker-australia-yes-no-votes-by-state-australian-indigenous-voice-to-parliament-who-won-is-winning-winner-map-counts-aec-latest-result?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 50,015
    edited October 2023
    kle4 said:

    Sandpit said:

    What’s Betfair saying about this cricket match?

    I say take the 1.01 on India. -as Rohit clocks 50.

    Betfair is saying £100 million matched on that cricket match.
    Not this one?

    https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/chile-women-in-argentina-2023-24-1402761/argentina-women-vs-chile-women-1st-t20i-1402764/full-scorecard
    Oh okay that’s funny. 63 - of which 29 were extras, 27 was from one batter, and the others got seven between them, of which one got five and two others one.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,707
    That said, and without wishing to spread alarm, a major global sporting event happening in France right now would be an ideal target for Islamist bombers. Lots of people, maximum attention

    Thank God there are no such events, this weekend
  • Options
    Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 7,633
    Sandpit said:

    Okay, so they’re going to run the last couple of dozen runs slowly.

    Nearly there now, though going by your record today there could still be a surprise.
    I have to say, I'd organised my day around this match and it's been a huge one-sided disappointment. Shame.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,211

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Even wokiest Victoria is heading to 55:45 "No":

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/elections/referendum/2023/results?filter=all&sort=az&state=all&party=all

    Much more decisive than the Republic referendum.

    Though the Republic referendum was still 10% No.

    The rejection of the Voice also probably kills off talk of a second Republic referendum in Australia for a generation.

    Had Yes won, Albanese would certainly have pushed for another referendum on the monarchy.

    The crushing defeat for Yes however means his government cannot risk another referendum anytime soon and first has to go back to the drawing board to find some other way of greater

    inclusion of aborigines in Australia
    Can we stop using the term ‘aborigines’ please, and either use a capital A or use some more respectful term such as First Australians.
    Well clearly most Australians have just decided not to privilege them with a capital A or as 'First Australians' but to just keep them as aborigines with no special voice in Parliament over other Australians given the rejection of the Voice
    Just because ‘our colonial cousins’ are ill-mannered doesn’t mean we have to be!

    One of my half-Thai grandchildren is heading, she hopes, for Melbourne University. I wonder if I should try to dissuade her?
    No.

    HYUFD no more speaks for Australians than he speaks for Red Wallers.

    He projects his own racism onto others quite routinely.
    I didn't vote for Farage or Brexit, you did.

    This is what Indigenous leaders themselves have said about the referendum result:

    'Indigenous Leaders across the country see no hope for reconciliation after tonight’s “tragic outcome”. An official mourning period begins now. Total media black out. Flags at half mast.

    “To our people we say: do not shed tears.

    This rejection was never for others to issue. The truth is that rejection was always ours to determine

    The truth is that we offered this recognition and it has been refused.

    We now know where we stand in this our own country.”
    https://x.com/ljayes/status/1713140016183132331?s=20

    Hopefully another way can be found to give indigenous Australians a greater voice without Australians as a whole feeling they are getting extra votes in Parliament
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    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 40,059
    viewcode said:

    Some of you are interested in AI generated images and voices

    Try this BBC quiz. 8 images/vids. Which are real, and which is AI?

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/bitesize/articles/zj3rjfr

    Mr Pitt has six digits on one hand ... but overall I was no better than random.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,835
    Will Young eviscerated in far more column inches than his mediocre talent deserves:

    https://www.spiked-online.com/2023/10/14/will-youngs-queer-privilege/
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,211

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Even wokiest Victoria is heading to 55:45 "No":

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/elections/referendum/2023/results?filter=all&sort=az&state=all&party=all

    Much more decisive than the Republic referendum.

    Though the Republic referendum was still 10% No.

    The rejection of the Voice also probably kills off talk of a second Republic referendum in Australia for a generation.

    Had Yes won, Albanese would certainly have pushed for another referendum on the monarchy.

    The crushing defeat for Yes however means his government cannot risk another referendum anytime soon and first has to go back to the drawing board to find some other way of greater

    inclusion of aborigines in Australia
    Can we stop using the term ‘aborigines’ please, and either use a capital A or use some more respectful term such as First Australians.
    Well clearly most Australians have just decided not to privilege them with a capital A or as 'First Australians' but to just keep them as aborigines with no special voice in Parliament over other Australians given the rejection of the Voice
    Just because ‘our colonial cousins’ are ill-mannered doesn’t mean we have to be!

    One of my half-Thai grandchildren is heading, she hopes, for Melbourne University. I wonder if I should try to dissuade her?
    Melbourne voted over 70% Yes, so your 'progressive' and I assume 'woke' grandchild should be OK there
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