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East Kilbride SNP MP defects to the Tories – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,592
edited October 2023 in General
imageEast Kilbride SNP MP defects to the Tories – politicalbetting.com

The big news from Scotland is that the SNP MP for East Kilbride, Liza Cameron, has defected to the Tories.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    Test
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    "Joyous & Civic":

    The SNP MP who defected to the Conservatives this week has been forced to move out of her home after receiving threats of being “bricked in the street”.

    Lisa Cameron, her husband and two daughters are staying at an undisclosed location in the Scottish countryside after a torrent of menacing messages arrived by email.

    Cameron announced her resignation from the SNP on Thursday, ahead of a reselection meeting in her East Kilbride, Strathaven & Lesmahagow constituency and on the eve of her former party’s conference in Aberdeen

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/91593c82-69de-11ee-853b-c0bf92ce36b1?shareToken=579a652178f07ca644ad83962ee9d584
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 36,537
    edited October 2023
    "‘Angry’ lawyer warned against Post Office computer investigation in 2010 email
    Angered by his exclusion from an important discussion, former Royal Mail lawyer told colleagues of the risks to the Post Office if, as planned, they publicly investigate allegations against its computer system
    Karl Flinders, Chief reporter and senior editor EMEA"

    https://www.computerweekly.com/news/366555336/Angry-lawyer-warned-against-Post-Office-computer-investigation-in-2010-email

    "Top Post Office solicitor told colleagues: ‘Get on with prosecuting’
    By John Hyde"

    https://www.lawgazette.co.uk/news/top-post-office-solicitor-told-colleagues-get-on-with-prosecuting/5117538.article

  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 36,537
    FrequentLurker said:

    The last MP to defect to the party of Government was, I think, Grantham MP Quentin Davis in June 2007.

    But it seems you have to go back to 1972 to find the last time someone defected to the Conservatives when they were in Government: Stratton Mills (whose name sounds more like a sleepy Sussex village) defected to the Tories when the Ulster Unionists removed the whip.

    The last time a non-nationalist defected to the Tories when they were in Government? 1926, apparently, when Sir Alfred Mont defected from the Liberals.

    You're welcome.

    Only 4 MPs have defected to the Tories since 1945 from parties not associated with them in any way (so excluding the unionists in the 1970s, and national liberals in the 1960s). The previous example was Reg Prentice in 1977, one in 1962, and two in 1948.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    I'd forgotten she was one of the (few) SNP critics of their GRR Bill - but then as a psychologist she'd have known the issues and potential pitfalls involved......

    Lisa Cameron forced into hiding. Her professional experience as a senior psychologist would always make her a “dangerous” figure for the SNP in GRA debate because she knows what she’s talking about. They prefer to listen to ideologues.

    https://x.com/GeorgeWOxford/status/1713036977015062599?s=20

    And then she broke ranks on the sex-pest MP:

    She said “the final straw” was the way the party had handled complaints against SNP MP Patrick Grady. When allegations first emerged that he made unwanted advances to a teenage party worker, Ian Blackford, then the party’s Westminster leader, asked colleagues to rally around Grady by “giving him as much support as possible”. An independent inquiry upheld the allegations and Grady was suspended from the party for six months but had the whip restored late last year. Cameron said the party worker had been let down by the process. “The way the victim was treated was something I could never be complicit in or condone,” she said.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/oct/13/lisa-cameron-snp-mp-who-defected-to-tories-forced-into-hiding?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    The U.S. State Department has begun to notify American Nationals in the Gaza Strip that the Rafah Border Crossing into Egypt will be Opening for Foreign Nationals later this afternoon.

    https://x.com/sentdefender/status/1713036562944962788?s=20
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 36,537
    CarlottaVance said:

    I'd forgotten she was one of the (few) SNP critics of their GRR Bill - but then as a psychologist she'd have known the issues and potential pitfalls involved......

    Lisa Cameron forced into hiding. Her professional experience as a senior psychologist would always make her a “dangerous” figure for the SNP in GRA debate because she knows what she’s talking about. They prefer to listen to ideologues.

    https://x.com/GeorgeWOxford/status/1713036977015062599?s=20

    And then she broke ranks on the sex-pest MP:

    She said “the final straw” was the way the party had handled complaints against SNP MP Patrick Grady. When allegations first emerged that he made unwanted advances to a teenage party worker, Ian Blackford, then the party’s Westminster leader, asked colleagues to rally around Grady by “giving him as much support as possible”. An independent inquiry upheld the allegations and Grady was suspended from the party for six months but had the whip restored late last year. Cameron said the party worker had been let down by the process. “The way the victim was treated was something I could never be complicit in or condone,” she said.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/oct/13/lisa-cameron-snp-mp-who-defected-to-tories-forced-into-hiding?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

    What sort of country are we living in where politicians are forced to go into hiding?
  • FrequentLurkerFrequentLurker Posts: 84
    Andy_JS said:


    Only 4 MPs have defected to the Tories since 1945 from parties not associated with them in any way (so excluding the unionists in the 1970s, and national liberals in the 1960s). The previous example was Reg Prentice in 1977, one in 1962, and two in 1948.

    Thank you; I overlooked Alan Brown who left Labour to sit as an Independent in 1961, before joining the Conservatives when they were in Government in 1962.

    (Technically, does a two-stage process count as a defection?)

    Looking at the list of those who have changed party does seem to underline that it's generally disadvantageous to one's political career, even allowing for the fact that many MPs do it (or have it done to them) when retirement's on the horizon anyway. Most of the names on the list are not well-known (by me at least).

    But I was surprised to see one name there -- a post-War MP who had a change of party designation but who went on to become Leader of the Opposition...
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    Andy_JS said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    I'd forgotten she was one of the (few) SNP critics of their GRR Bill - but then as a psychologist she'd have known the issues and potential pitfalls involved......

    Lisa Cameron forced into hiding. Her professional experience as a senior psychologist would always make her a “dangerous” figure for the SNP in GRA debate because she knows what she’s talking about. They prefer to listen to ideologues.

    https://x.com/GeorgeWOxford/status/1713036977015062599?s=20

    And then she broke ranks on the sex-pest MP:

    She said “the final straw” was the way the party had handled complaints against SNP MP Patrick Grady. When allegations first emerged that he made unwanted advances to a teenage party worker, Ian Blackford, then the party’s Westminster leader, asked colleagues to rally around Grady by “giving him as much support as possible”. An independent inquiry upheld the allegations and Grady was suspended from the party for six months but had the whip restored late last year. Cameron said the party worker had been let down by the process. “The way the victim was treated was something I could never be complicit in or condone,” she said.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/oct/13/lisa-cameron-snp-mp-who-defected-to-tories-forced-into-hiding?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

    What sort of country are we living in where politicians are forced to go into hiding?
    One like this:

    In Scotland, the SNP have the power and willingness to exact revenge on people they do not like in the sort of way you would normally associate with a totalitarian state.

    Just to illustrate that let me tell my story of dealing with the SNP.

    I moved to Edinburgh to report from the Scottish Parliament in late 2006 just before the SNP seized power from Labour in one of the closest of elections. When the Scotsman told me they were moving me to cover politics in Westminster in 2010 my wife wept tears of joy and relief because of the awful time we had suffered at the SNP hands. During those three years there were death threats, people searching for my car number plate online, people searching for my home address and the windows of my home was smashed seven times.

    My editor at one point banned comments on my stories - because SNP activists were using it as a platform to try to make threats against me. My "crime" was not opposing independence; but writing up news pieces on the SNP's policies such as local income tax or the failure to keep its promise to pay off student debt. But this was taken as an attack on the independence movement.

    https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1822884/snp-toxic-culture-lisa-cameron-humza-yousaf-comment
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 36,537
    "Woman arrested on suspicion of supporting Hamas - as hundreds of officers set to police pro-Palestine protest

    The 22-year-old woman was held under the Terrorism Act on suspicion of "supporting a proscribed organisation" following a speech at a protest in Brighton. On Saturday, thousands of people are expected to join a pro-Palestine march through central London."

    https://news.sky.com/story/woman-arrested-on-suspicion-of-supporting-hamas-as-hundreds-of-officers-set-to-police-pro-palestine-protest-12983969
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 39,208
    It has not been a good year for the SNP.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 60,801
    Andy_JS said:

    "‘Angry’ lawyer warned against Post Office computer investigation in 2010 email
    Angered by his exclusion from an important discussion, former Royal Mail lawyer told colleagues of the risks to the Post Office if, as planned, they publicly investigate allegations against its computer system
    Karl Flinders, Chief reporter and senior editor EMEA"

    https://www.computerweekly.com/news/366555336/Angry-lawyer-warned-against-Post-Office-computer-investigation-in-2010-email

    "Top Post Office solicitor told colleagues: ‘Get on with prosecuting’
    By John Hyde"

    https://www.lawgazette.co.uk/news/top-post-office-solicitor-told-colleagues-get-on-with-prosecuting/5117538.article

    The story gets worse and worse.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 60,801
    Andy_JS said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    I'd forgotten she was one of the (few) SNP critics of their GRR Bill - but then as a psychologist she'd have known the issues and potential pitfalls involved......

    Lisa Cameron forced into hiding. Her professional experience as a senior psychologist would always make her a “dangerous” figure for the SNP in GRA debate because she knows what she’s talking about. They prefer to listen to ideologues.

    https://x.com/GeorgeWOxford/status/1713036977015062599?s=20

    And then she broke ranks on the sex-pest MP:

    She said “the final straw” was the way the party had handled complaints against SNP MP Patrick Grady. When allegations first emerged that he made unwanted advances to a teenage party worker, Ian Blackford, then the party’s Westminster leader, asked colleagues to rally around Grady by “giving him as much support as possible”. An independent inquiry upheld the allegations and Grady was suspended from the party for six months but had the whip restored late last year. Cameron said the party worker had been let down by the process. “The way the victim was treated was something I could never be complicit in or condone,” she said.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/oct/13/lisa-cameron-snp-mp-who-defected-to-tories-forced-into-hiding?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

    What sort of country are we living in where politicians are forced to go into hiding?
    Do you honestly think that politicians should be allowed out in public?
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,772
    CarlottaVance said:

    Andy_JS said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    I'd forgotten she was one of the (few) SNP critics of their GRR Bill - but then as a psychologist she'd have known the issues and potential pitfalls involved......

    Lisa Cameron forced into hiding. Her professional experience as a senior psychologist would always make her a “dangerous” figure for the SNP in GRA debate because she knows what she’s talking about. They prefer to listen to ideologues.

    https://x.com/GeorgeWOxford/status/1713036977015062599?s=20

    And then she broke ranks on the sex-pest MP:

    She said “the final straw” was the way the party had handled complaints against SNP MP Patrick Grady. When allegations first emerged that he made unwanted advances to a teenage party worker, Ian Blackford, then the party’s Westminster leader, asked colleagues to rally around Grady by “giving him as much support as possible”. An independent inquiry upheld the allegations and Grady was suspended from the party for six months but had the whip restored late last year. Cameron said the party worker had been let down by the process. “The way the victim was treated was something I could never be complicit in or condone,” she said.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/oct/13/lisa-cameron-snp-mp-who-defected-to-tories-forced-into-hiding?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

    What sort of country are we living in where politicians are forced to go into hiding?
    One like this:

    In Scotland, the SNP have the power and willingness to exact revenge on people they do not like in the sort of way you would normally associate with a totalitarian state.

    Just to illustrate that let me tell my story of dealing with the SNP.

    I moved to Edinburgh to report from the Scottish Parliament in late 2006 just before the SNP seized power from Labour in one of the closest of elections. When the Scotsman told me they were moving me to cover politics in Westminster in 2010 my wife wept tears of joy and relief because of the awful time we had suffered at the SNP hands. During those three years there were death threats, people searching for my car number plate online, people searching for my home address and the windows of my home was smashed seven times.

    My editor at one point banned comments on my stories - because SNP activists were using it as a platform to try to make threats against me. My "crime" was not opposing independence; but writing up news pieces on the SNP's policies such as local income tax or the failure to keep its promise to pay off student debt. But this was taken as an attack on the independence movement.

    https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1822884/snp-toxic-culture-lisa-cameron-humza-yousaf-comment
    Might it not have been a more impressive protest if she had not defected the day she was about to be deselected? Perhaps also if she had become an independent rather than joining a Unionist Party? She sounds like the worst type of self serving opportunist.
  • sbjme19sbjme19 Posts: 194
    John Horam, from Labour to Tory via the SDP.
  • TazTaz Posts: 19,918
    Roger said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    Andy_JS said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    I'd forgotten she was one of the (few) SNP critics of their GRR Bill - but then as a psychologist she'd have known the issues and potential pitfalls involved......

    Lisa Cameron forced into hiding. Her professional experience as a senior psychologist would always make her a “dangerous” figure for the SNP in GRA debate because she knows what she’s talking about. They prefer to listen to ideologues.

    https://x.com/GeorgeWOxford/status/1713036977015062599?s=20

    And then she broke ranks on the sex-pest MP:

    She said “the final straw” was the way the party had handled complaints against SNP MP Patrick Grady. When allegations first emerged that he made unwanted advances to a teenage party worker, Ian Blackford, then the party’s Westminster leader, asked colleagues to rally around Grady by “giving him as much support as possible”. An independent inquiry upheld the allegations and Grady was suspended from the party for six months but had the whip restored late last year. Cameron said the party worker had been let down by the process. “The way the victim was treated was something I could never be complicit in or condone,” she said.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/oct/13/lisa-cameron-snp-mp-who-defected-to-tories-forced-into-hiding?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

    What sort of country are we living in where politicians are forced to go into hiding?
    One like this:

    In Scotland, the SNP have the power and willingness to exact revenge on people they do not like in the sort of way you would normally associate with a totalitarian state.

    Just to illustrate that let me tell my story of dealing with the SNP.

    I moved to Edinburgh to report from the Scottish Parliament in late 2006 just before the SNP seized power from Labour in one of the closest of elections. When the Scotsman told me they were moving me to cover politics in Westminster in 2010 my wife wept tears of joy and relief because of the awful time we had suffered at the SNP hands. During those three years there were death threats, people searching for my car number plate online, people searching for my home address and the windows of my home was smashed seven times.

    My editor at one point banned comments on my stories - because SNP activists were using it as a platform to try to make threats against me. My "crime" was not opposing independence; but writing up news pieces on the SNP's policies such as local income tax or the failure to keep its promise to pay off student debt. But this was taken as an attack on the independence movement.

    https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1822884/snp-toxic-culture-lisa-cameron-humza-yousaf-comment
    Might it not have been a more impressive protest if she had not defected the day she was about to be deselected? Perhaps also if she had become an independent rather than joining a Unionist Party? She sounds like the worst type of self serving opportunist.
    Which in no way justifies the threats against her and her and her family being forced to move home.

    It also doesn’t justify cybernats attacks on a journalist just doing their job.

    That is what needs condemnation.
  • TazTaz Posts: 19,918
    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    I'd forgotten she was one of the (few) SNP critics of their GRR Bill - but then as a psychologist she'd have known the issues and potential pitfalls involved......

    Lisa Cameron forced into hiding. Her professional experience as a senior psychologist would always make her a “dangerous” figure for the SNP in GRA debate because she knows what she’s talking about. They prefer to listen to ideologues.

    https://x.com/GeorgeWOxford/status/1713036977015062599?s=20

    And then she broke ranks on the sex-pest MP:

    She said “the final straw” was the way the party had handled complaints against SNP MP Patrick Grady. When allegations first emerged that he made unwanted advances to a teenage party worker, Ian Blackford, then the party’s Westminster leader, asked colleagues to rally around Grady by “giving him as much support as possible”. An independent inquiry upheld the allegations and Grady was suspended from the party for six months but had the whip restored late last year. Cameron said the party worker had been let down by the process. “The way the victim was treated was something I could never be complicit in or condone,” she said.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/oct/13/lisa-cameron-snp-mp-who-defected-to-tories-forced-into-hiding?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

    What sort of country are we living in where politicians are forced to go into hiding?
    Do you honestly think that politicians should be allowed out in public?
    Only with a grown up.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 36,537
    sbjme19 said:

    John Horam, from Labour to Tory via the SDP.

    That's a sneaky one. I hadn't considered multiple defections.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 46,341
    Taz said:

    Roger said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    Andy_JS said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    I'd forgotten she was one of the (few) SNP critics of their GRR Bill - but then as a psychologist she'd have known the issues and potential pitfalls involved......

    Lisa Cameron forced into hiding. Her professional experience as a senior psychologist would always make her a “dangerous” figure for the SNP in GRA debate because she knows what she’s talking about. They prefer to listen to ideologues.

    https://x.com/GeorgeWOxford/status/1713036977015062599?s=20

    And then she broke ranks on the sex-pest MP:

    She said “the final straw” was the way the party had handled complaints against SNP MP Patrick Grady. When allegations first emerged that he made unwanted advances to a teenage party worker, Ian Blackford, then the party’s Westminster leader, asked colleagues to rally around Grady by “giving him as much support as possible”. An independent inquiry upheld the allegations and Grady was suspended from the party for six months but had the whip restored late last year. Cameron said the party worker had been let down by the process. “The way the victim was treated was something I could never be complicit in or condone,” she said.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/oct/13/lisa-cameron-snp-mp-who-defected-to-tories-forced-into-hiding?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

    What sort of country are we living in where politicians are forced to go into hiding?
    One like this:

    In Scotland, the SNP have the power and willingness to exact revenge on people they do not like in the sort of way you would normally associate with a totalitarian state.

    Just to illustrate that let me tell my story of dealing with the SNP.

    I moved to Edinburgh to report from the Scottish Parliament in late 2006 just before the SNP seized power from Labour in one of the closest of elections. When the Scotsman told me they were moving me to cover politics in Westminster in 2010 my wife wept tears of joy and relief because of the awful time we had suffered at the SNP hands. During those three years there were death threats, people searching for my car number plate online, people searching for my home address and the windows of my home was smashed seven times.

    My editor at one point banned comments on my stories - because SNP activists were using it as a platform to try to make threats against me. My "crime" was not opposing independence; but writing up news pieces on the SNP's policies such as local income tax or the failure to keep its promise to pay off student debt. But this was taken as an attack on the independence movement.

    https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1822884/snp-toxic-culture-lisa-cameron-humza-yousaf-comment
    Might it not have been a more impressive protest if she had not defected the day she was about to be deselected? Perhaps also if she had become an independent rather than joining a Unionist Party? She sounds like the worst type of self serving opportunist.
    Which in no way justifies the threats against her and her and her family being forced to move home.

    It also doesn’t justify cybernats attacks on a journalist just doing their job.

    That is what needs condemnation.
    Not from Roger.

    The people doing the attacks are probably 'talent' in his eyes... ;)
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 25,313
    FrequentLurker said:

    The last MP to defect to the party of Government was, I think, Grantham MP Quentin Davis in June 2007.

    But it seems you have to go back to 1972 to find the last time someone defected to the Conservatives when they were in Government: Stratton Mills (whose name sounds more like a sleepy Sussex village) defected to the Tories when the Ulster Unionists removed the whip.

    The last time a non-nationalist defected to the Tories when they were in Government? 1926, apparently, when Sir Alfred Mont defected from the Liberals.

    You're welcome.

    I'm thinking of Reg Prentice. Didn't defect to the Government, but remained as MP when the Blues won the next election in 79.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 36,537
    "André Brett
    @DrDreHistorian

    Polls have closed in New Zealand. If you are outside NZ and want to watch live coverage of the count, the TVNZ broadcast is available on YouTube here:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o59PTrjiyjs "

    https://twitter.com/DrDreHistorian/status/1713072446277124178
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,509
    FrequentLurker said:

    The last MP to defect to the party of Government was, I think, Grantham MP Quentin Davis in June 2007.

    But it seems you have to go back to 1972 to find the last time someone defected to the Conservatives when they were in Government: Stratton Mills (whose name sounds more like a sleepy Sussex village) defected to the Tories when the Ulster Unionists removed the whip.

    The last time a non-nationalist defected to the Tories when they were in Government? 1926, apparently, when Sir Alfred Mont defected from the Liberals.

    You're welcome.

    Was Stratton Mills the brother of Trago Mills?

    (SW reference may not travel nationally....)
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 25,313
    Andy_JS said:

    "André Brett
    @DrDreHistorian

    Polls have closed in New Zealand. If you are outside NZ and want to watch live coverage of the count, the TVNZ broadcast is available on YouTube here:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o59PTrjiyjs "

    https://twitter.com/DrDreHistorian/status/1713072446277124178

    There's a rather sensible entry in the YouTube comments section from one "Andrew JS".
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,435
    We should hear results of the NZ election soon.

    One odd feature of this election is that the right wing National Party, assumed winners of this election, get a bonus seat due to a weird technicality of the electoral system, triggered by the death of a candidate in one seat.

    Could be decisive if it is close.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 36,537
    edited October 2023
    viewcode said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "André Brett
    @DrDreHistorian

    Polls have closed in New Zealand. If you are outside NZ and want to watch live coverage of the count, the TVNZ broadcast is available on YouTube here:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o59PTrjiyjs "

    https://twitter.com/DrDreHistorian/status/1713072446277124178

    There's a rather sensible entry in the YouTube comments section from one "Andrew JS".
    Well spotted.

    3% counted. 40.9% to 25.5%.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 36,537
    Latest results on top of this page.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,435
    With 6% counted, National and Act have enough seats to form a government without the annoying populists, NZFirst.

    63 seats out of 120. 64 out of 121 if you include the bonus I mentioned earlier.

    So, close, but looks pretty good for them.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,509
    Claimed Russian losses in Ukraine for the past 4 days:

    Military personnel: 820 +990 +1030 +970 = 3,810

    Tanks: 34 + 42 + 26 + 9 = 111

    Armoured fighting vehicles: 91 + 44 + 49 + 24 = 208

    Artillery: 18 + 32 + 44 + 26 = 120
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 74,457
    FrequentLurker said:

    Andy_JS said:


    Only 4 MPs have defected to the Tories since 1945 from parties not associated with them in any way (so excluding the unionists in the 1970s, and national liberals in the 1960s). The previous example was Reg Prentice in 1977, one in 1962, and two in 1948.

    Thank you; I overlooked Alan Brown who left Labour to sit as an Independent in 1961, before joining the Conservatives when they were in Government in 1962.

    (Technically, does a two-stage process count as a defection?)

    Looking at the list of those who have changed party does seem to underline that it's generally disadvantageous to one's political career, even allowing for the fact that many MPs do it (or have it done to them) when retirement's on the horizon anyway. Most of the names on the list are not well-known (by me at least).

    But I was surprised to see one name there -- a post-War MP who had a change of party designation but who went on to become Leader of the Opposition...
    I take it you weren’t referring to Winston Churchill?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 46,341
    MarqueeMark said:

    Claimed Russian losses in Ukraine for the past 4 days:

    Military personnel: 820 +990 +1030 +970 = 3,810

    Tanks: 34 + 42 + 26 + 9 = 111

    Armoured fighting vehicles: 91 + 44 + 49 + 24 = 208

    Artillery: 18 + 32 + 44 + 26 = 120

    Whilst exact figures are hard to come by, from the videos that have come out it appears that the Russian attack has been very costly. Quite what Ukrainian losses have been, or the gains Russia have (or have not) made from the attack, are other questions.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    Gardenwalker said:

    With 6% counted, National and Act have enough seats to form a government without the annoying populists, NZFirst.

    63 seats out of 120. 64 out of 121 if you include the bonus I mentioned earlier.

    So, close, but looks pretty good for them.

    Swing to the right, or just tired with the incumbents and time to chuck the buggers out?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 36,537
    Labour on course to lose half their seats at the moment (give or take a seat).
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,089
    Peter_the_Punter said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "‘Angry’ lawyer warned against Post Office computer investigation in 2010 email
    Angered by his exclusion from an important discussion, former Royal Mail lawyer told colleagues of the risks to the Post Office if, as planned, they publicly investigate allegations against its computer system
    Karl Flinders, Chief reporter and senior editor EMEA"

    https://www.computerweekly.com/news/366555336/Angry-lawyer-warned-against-Post-Office-computer-investigation-in-2010-email

    "Top Post Office solicitor told colleagues: ‘Get on with prosecuting’
    By John Hyde"

    https://www.lawgazette.co.uk/news/top-post-office-solicitor-told-colleagues-get-on-with-prosecuting/5117538.article

    The story gets worse and worse.
    Stunning.

    If the Inquiry does its work properly, and it is followed up rigorously, we can expect to see hundreds in court facing charges of perjury and attempting to pervert the course of justice.
    Let’s hope so. Sadly, not holding out much hope at this point.

    Genuinely one of the scandals of the century.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 74,457
    Andy_JS said:

    Labour on course to lose half their seats at the moment (give or take a seat).

    Sir Keir Starmer fans, please exp…oh, sorry, different Labour Party!
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    Often forgotten abour foreign nationals in Israel:

    "Nearly 6,000 Thai people in Israel have registered at the Thai Embassy, expressing their will to go back home, so far. Now the government is preparing more flights to serve them," he added. More than 20,000 Thai nationals live in Israel, many of them working in construction and agriculture.

    https://asia.nikkei.com/Politics/Israel-Hamas-war/Hamas-kept-firing-at-our-car-Thai-evacuees-recount-attack
  • TazTaz Posts: 19,918
    Andy_JS said:

    Labour on course to lose half their seats at the moment (give or take a seat).

    Saint Jacinda bailed at the right time. God bless her.
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,334
    edited October 2023
    FrequentLurker said:

    Andy_JS said:


    Only 4 MPs have defected to the Tories since 1945 from parties not associated with them in any way (so excluding the unionists in the 1970s, and national liberals in the 1960s). The previous example was Reg Prentice in 1977, one in 1962, and two in 1948.

    Thank you; I overlooked Alan Brown who left Labour to sit as an Independent in 1961, before joining the Conservatives when they were in Government in 1962.

    (Technically, does a two-stage process count as a defection?)

    Looking at the list of those who have changed party does seem to underline that it's generally disadvantageous to one's political career, even allowing for the fact that many MPs do it (or have it done to them) when retirement's on the horizon anyway. Most of the names on the list are not well-known (by me at least).

    But I was surprised to see one name there -- a post-War MP who had a change of party designation but who went on to become Leader of the Opposition...
    ‘Looking at the list of those who have changed party does seem to underline that it’s generally disadvantageous to one’s political career…’: worked out OK for Winston Churchill, though.

    Edit: I see ydoethur got there first … inevitably.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,089
    MarqueeMark said:

    Claimed Russian losses in Ukraine for the past 4 days:

    Military personnel: 820 +990 +1030 +970 = 3,810

    Tanks: 34 + 42 + 26 + 9 = 111

    Armoured fighting vehicles: 91 + 44 + 49 + 24 = 208

    Artillery: 18 + 32 + 44 + 26 = 120

    That looks like the last stand of the defeated, throwing every last man and machine into the meat grinder trying to prevent the inevitable.

    Winter is coming, which is going to be a difficult time for those without Storm Shadow, HIMARS, and ATACMS.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,435
    CarlottaVance said:

    Gardenwalker said:

    With 6% counted, National and Act have enough seats to form a government without the annoying populists, NZFirst.

    63 seats out of 120. 64 out of 121 if you include the bonus I mentioned earlier.

    So, close, but looks pretty good for them.

    Swing to the right, or just tired with the incumbents and time to chuck the buggers out?
    The latter. Ardern saw the writing on the wall and bailed.
  • DoubleCarpetDoubleCarpet Posts: 968
    Morning all, internet issues (BT Hub a solid orange) :( so tethering from phone.

    Does anyone have any technical advice, does this mean the hub has packed up and needs replacing?

    Thanks,

    DC
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    Not to forget another vote going on down under:

    https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/the-voice-referendum-live-updates-australians-head-to-polls-across-the-nation-to-vote-on-indigenous-constitutional-recognition-20231013-p5ec4w.html
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 55,905
    Roger said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    Andy_JS said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    I'd forgotten she was one of the (few) SNP critics of their GRR Bill - but then as a psychologist she'd have known the issues and potential pitfalls involved......

    Lisa Cameron forced into hiding. Her professional experience as a senior psychologist would always make her a “dangerous” figure for the SNP in GRA debate because she knows what she’s talking about. They prefer to listen to ideologues.

    https://x.com/GeorgeWOxford/status/1713036977015062599?s=20

    And then she broke ranks on the sex-pest MP:

    She said “the final straw” was the way the party had handled complaints against SNP MP Patrick Grady. When allegations first emerged that he made unwanted advances to a teenage party worker, Ian Blackford, then the party’s Westminster leader, asked colleagues to rally around Grady by “giving him as much support as possible”. An independent inquiry upheld the allegations and Grady was suspended from the party for six months but had the whip restored late last year. Cameron said the party worker had been let down by the process. “The way the victim was treated was something I could never be complicit in or condone,” she said.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/oct/13/lisa-cameron-snp-mp-who-defected-to-tories-forced-into-hiding?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

    What sort of country are we living in where politicians are forced to go into hiding?
    One like this:

    In Scotland, the SNP have the power and willingness to exact revenge on people they do not like in the sort of way you would normally associate with a totalitarian state.

    Just to illustrate that let me tell my story of dealing with the SNP.

    I moved to Edinburgh to report from the Scottish Parliament in late 2006 just before the SNP seized power from Labour in one of the closest of elections. When the Scotsman told me they were moving me to cover politics in Westminster in 2010 my wife wept tears of joy and relief because of the awful time we had suffered at the SNP hands. During those three years there were death threats, people searching for my car number plate online, people searching for my home address and the windows of my home was smashed seven times.

    My editor at one point banned comments on my stories - because SNP activists were using it as a platform to try to make threats against me. My "crime" was not opposing independence; but writing up news pieces on the SNP's policies such as local income tax or the failure to keep its promise to pay off student debt. But this was taken as an attack on the independence movement.

    https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1822884/snp-toxic-culture-lisa-cameron-humza-yousaf-comment
    Might it not have been a more impressive protest if she had not defected the day she was about to be deselected? Perhaps also if she had become an independent rather than joining a Unionist Party? She sounds like the worst type of self serving opportunist.
    What about your comments on the day that a certain scandal effecting your industry came out?

    If someone found out who you were in the real world, would those comments justify criminal threats against you?

    Or is the protection of the law just for your friends and relations?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,509
    edited October 2023
    JosiasJessop said:

    MarqueeMark said:

    Claimed Russian losses in Ukraine for the past 4 days:

    Military personnel: 820 +990 +1030 +970 = 3,810

    Tanks: 34 + 42 + 26 + 9 = 111

    Armoured fighting vehicles: 91 + 44 + 49 + 24 = 208

    Artillery: 18 + 32 + 44 + 26 = 120

    Whilst exact figures are hard to come by, from the videos that have come out it appears that the Russian attack has been very costly. Quite what Ukrainian losses have been, or the gains Russia have (or have not) made from the attack, are other questions.
    This guy - ReportingfromUkraine - makes consistently excellent detailed reports of the fighting. I think he is well connected within the Ukrainian military: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjqmUZaF5JU&ab_channel=ReportingfromUkraine

    There have undoubtedly been some Ukrainian losses from the Russian attempt to blitzkrieg Avdiivka, especially with the massive artillery barrage that preceded it. However, as this report demonstrates, most of the Russian casualties got nowhere near the front line before they were destroyed.

    The Russian military bloggers have rowed back on their previous claims of captured stronpoints. Despite these scale of losses, all Russia has apparently achieved is to move a few fields into the contested "grey zone". Although some of these were really the Ukrainians pulling back, to extend the killing zone.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 74,457
    ThomasNashe said:

    FrequentLurker said:

    Andy_JS said:


    Only 4 MPs have defected to the Tories since 1945 from parties not associated with them in any way (so excluding the unionists in the 1970s, and national liberals in the 1960s). The previous example was Reg Prentice in 1977, one in 1962, and two in 1948.

    Thank you; I overlooked Alan Brown who left Labour to sit as an Independent in 1961, before joining the Conservatives when they were in Government in 1962.

    (Technically, does a two-stage process count as a defection?)

    Looking at the list of those who have changed party does seem to underline that it's generally disadvantageous to one's political career, even allowing for the fact that many MPs do it (or have it done to them) when retirement's on the horizon anyway. Most of the names on the list are not well-known (by me at least).

    But I was surprised to see one name there -- a post-War MP who had a change of party designation but who went on to become Leader of the Opposition...
    ‘Looking at the list of those who have changed party does seem to underline that it’s generally disadvantageous to one’s political career…’: worked out OK for Winston Churchill, though.

    Edit: I see ydoethur got there first … inevitably.
    Sorry, not sorry. :tongue:

    I must confess I can’t think who else, postwar, defected from their party and rose to lead their new party.

    Indeed the only other example of a former defector becoming Leader of the Opposition since Gladstone I can think of is Joseph Chamberlain.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 36,537
    Official results page.

    https://www.electionresults.govt.nz
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 74,457
    DoubleCarpet said:

    Morning all, internet issues (BT Hub a solid orange) :( so tethering from phone.

    Does anyone have any technical advice, does this mean the hub has packed up and needs replacing?

    Thanks,

    DC

    Bitter experience suggests more usually an internet issue. Have you rung BT and asked them to check the line?
  • TazTaz Posts: 19,918
    Malmesbury said:

    Roger said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    Andy_JS said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    I'd forgotten she was one of the (few) SNP critics of their GRR Bill - but then as a psychologist she'd have known the issues and potential pitfalls involved......

    Lisa Cameron forced into hiding. Her professional experience as a senior psychologist would always make her a “dangerous” figure for the SNP in GRA debate because she knows what she’s talking about. They prefer to listen to ideologues.

    https://x.com/GeorgeWOxford/status/1713036977015062599?s=20

    And then she broke ranks on the sex-pest MP:

    She said “the final straw” was the way the party had handled complaints against SNP MP Patrick Grady. When allegations first emerged that he made unwanted advances to a teenage party worker, Ian Blackford, then the party’s Westminster leader, asked colleagues to rally around Grady by “giving him as much support as possible”. An independent inquiry upheld the allegations and Grady was suspended from the party for six months but had the whip restored late last year. Cameron said the party worker had been let down by the process. “The way the victim was treated was something I could never be complicit in or condone,” she said.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/oct/13/lisa-cameron-snp-mp-who-defected-to-tories-forced-into-hiding?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

    What sort of country are we living in where politicians are forced to go into hiding?
    One like this:

    In Scotland, the SNP have the power and willingness to exact revenge on people they do not like in the sort of way you would normally associate with a totalitarian state.

    Just to illustrate that let me tell my story of dealing with the SNP.

    I moved to Edinburgh to report from the Scottish Parliament in late 2006 just before the SNP seized power from Labour in one of the closest of elections. When the Scotsman told me they were moving me to cover politics in Westminster in 2010 my wife wept tears of joy and relief because of the awful time we had suffered at the SNP hands. During those three years there were death threats, people searching for my car number plate online, people searching for my home address and the windows of my home was smashed seven times.

    My editor at one point banned comments on my stories - because SNP activists were using it as a platform to try to make threats against me. My "crime" was not opposing independence; but writing up news pieces on the SNP's policies such as local income tax or the failure to keep its promise to pay off student debt. But this was taken as an attack on the independence movement.

    https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1822884/snp-toxic-culture-lisa-cameron-humza-yousaf-comment
    Might it not have been a more impressive protest if she had not defected the day she was about to be deselected? Perhaps also if she had become an independent rather than joining a Unionist Party? She sounds like the worst type of self serving opportunist.
    What about your comments on the day that a certain scandal effecting your industry came out?

    If someone found out who you were in the real world, would those comments justify criminal threats against you?

    Or is the protection of the law just for your friends and relations?
    What comments were these and what scandal was this ?
  • TazTaz Posts: 19,918
    CarlottaVance said:

    Not to forget another vote going on down under:

    https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/the-voice-referendum-live-updates-australians-head-to-polls-across-the-nation-to-vote-on-indigenous-constitutional-recognition-20231013-p5ec4w.html

    I’ve some some rather balanced reporting in the Guardian about this vote.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 55,905
    Sandpit said:

    Peter_the_Punter said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "‘Angry’ lawyer warned against Post Office computer investigation in 2010 email
    Angered by his exclusion from an important discussion, former Royal Mail lawyer told colleagues of the risks to the Post Office if, as planned, they publicly investigate allegations against its computer system
    Karl Flinders, Chief reporter and senior editor EMEA"

    https://www.computerweekly.com/news/366555336/Angry-lawyer-warned-against-Post-Office-computer-investigation-in-2010-email

    "Top Post Office solicitor told colleagues: ‘Get on with prosecuting’
    By John Hyde"

    https://www.lawgazette.co.uk/news/top-post-office-solicitor-told-colleagues-get-on-with-prosecuting/5117538.article

    The story gets worse and worse.
    Stunning.

    If the Inquiry does its work properly, and it is followed up rigorously, we can expect to see hundreds in court facing charges of perjury and attempting to pervert the course of justice.
    Let’s hope so. Sadly, not holding out much hope at this point.

    Genuinely one of the scandals of the century.
    I’m pretty sure that it will be a case where

    1) Lessons will be learned
    2) Further prosecutions won’t be in the public interest. Because the people prosecuted would be NU10K.
    3) The Greater Good.


  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 36,537
    edited October 2023
    DoubleCarpet said:

    Morning all, internet issues (BT Hub a solid orange) :( so tethering from phone.

    Does anyone have any technical advice, does this mean the hub has packed up and needs replacing?

    Thanks,

    DC

    All I can recommend is switching it off for a while, turn it on again, and see if it starts working properly.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 55,905
    Taz said:

    Malmesbury said:

    Roger said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    Andy_JS said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    I'd forgotten she was one of the (few) SNP critics of their GRR Bill - but then as a psychologist she'd have known the issues and potential pitfalls involved......

    Lisa Cameron forced into hiding. Her professional experience as a senior psychologist would always make her a “dangerous” figure for the SNP in GRA debate because she knows what she’s talking about. They prefer to listen to ideologues.

    https://x.com/GeorgeWOxford/status/1713036977015062599?s=20

    And then she broke ranks on the sex-pest MP:

    She said “the final straw” was the way the party had handled complaints against SNP MP Patrick Grady. When allegations first emerged that he made unwanted advances to a teenage party worker, Ian Blackford, then the party’s Westminster leader, asked colleagues to rally around Grady by “giving him as much support as possible”. An independent inquiry upheld the allegations and Grady was suspended from the party for six months but had the whip restored late last year. Cameron said the party worker had been let down by the process. “The way the victim was treated was something I could never be complicit in or condone,” she said.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/oct/13/lisa-cameron-snp-mp-who-defected-to-tories-forced-into-hiding?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

    What sort of country are we living in where politicians are forced to go into hiding?
    One like this:

    In Scotland, the SNP have the power and willingness to exact revenge on people they do not like in the sort of way you would normally associate with a totalitarian state.

    Just to illustrate that let me tell my story of dealing with the SNP.

    I moved to Edinburgh to report from the Scottish Parliament in late 2006 just before the SNP seized power from Labour in one of the closest of elections. When the Scotsman told me they were moving me to cover politics in Westminster in 2010 my wife wept tears of joy and relief because of the awful time we had suffered at the SNP hands. During those three years there were death threats, people searching for my car number plate online, people searching for my home address and the windows of my home was smashed seven times.

    My editor at one point banned comments on my stories - because SNP activists were using it as a platform to try to make threats against me. My "crime" was not opposing independence; but writing up news pieces on the SNP's policies such as local income tax or the failure to keep its promise to pay off student debt. But this was taken as an attack on the independence movement.

    https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1822884/snp-toxic-culture-lisa-cameron-humza-yousaf-comment
    Might it not have been a more impressive protest if she had not defected the day she was about to be deselected? Perhaps also if she had become an independent rather than joining a Unionist Party? She sounds like the worst type of self serving opportunist.
    What about your comments on the day that a certain scandal effecting your industry came out?

    If someone found out who you were in the real world, would those comments justify criminal threats against you?

    Or is the protection of the law just for your friends and relations?
    What comments were these and what scandal was this ?
    I could pick several. But let’s go with Weinstein.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,509
    Sandpit said:

    MarqueeMark said:

    Claimed Russian losses in Ukraine for the past 4 days:

    Military personnel: 820 +990 +1030 +970 = 3,810

    Tanks: 34 + 42 + 26 + 9 = 111

    Armoured fighting vehicles: 91 + 44 + 49 + 24 = 208

    Artillery: 18 + 32 + 44 + 26 = 120

    That looks like the last stand of the defeated, throwing every last man and machine into the meat grinder trying to prevent the inevitable.

    Winter is coming, which is going to be a difficult time for those without Storm Shadow, HIMARS, and ATACMS.
    Don't forget the arrivals of F-16s. They can deliver 1,000 lb and 1,500 lb bombs that can just smash defences to bits that artillery will otherwise take many attempts to chip away.

    https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3773097-ihnat-ukrainian-pilots-to-start-flying-with-instructors-on-real-f16-aircraft-in-few-weeks.html
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 55,905
    ydoethur said:

    DoubleCarpet said:

    Morning all, internet issues (BT Hub a solid orange) :( so tethering from phone.

    Does anyone have any technical advice, does this mean the hub has packed up and needs replacing?

    Thanks,

    DC

    Bitter experience suggests more usually an internet issue. Have you rung BT and asked them to check the line?
    Ah yes

    1) Call BT
    2) 216 years later get through to their Unhelp Desk
    3) Be transferred 37 times
    4) Someone claims that nothing is wrong and promises to send and engineer before the heat death of the universe
    5) At some point after your call, the internet connection is magically restored.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 55,905
    MarqueeMark said:

    Andy_JS said:

    DoubleCarpet said:

    Morning all, internet issues (BT Hub a solid orange) :( so tethering from phone.

    Does anyone have any technical advice, does this mean the hub has packed up and needs replacing?

    Thanks,

    DC

    All I can recommend is switching it off for a while, turn it on again, and see if it starts working properly.
    So you are an IT guy then?
    Years back, I found a manual for the Drayer Table (electro mechanical fire control computer - kinda) from 1913 (I think)

    It stated that if all else failed, switch off, reset the thing to the start position, remove and replace all the plugs and then turn it on again.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 44,442
    Roger said:

    Might it not have been a more impressive protest if she had not defected the day she was about to be deselected? Perhaps also if she had become an independent rather than joining a Unionist Party? She sounds like the worst type of self serving opportunist.

    Absolute coincidence I’m sure.

    Presumably the Labour supporting Daily Record will be put on the list of vile abusers.


  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 36,537
    edited October 2023
    MarqueeMark said:

    Andy_JS said:

    DoubleCarpet said:

    Morning all, internet issues (BT Hub a solid orange) :( so tethering from phone.

    Does anyone have any technical advice, does this mean the hub has packed up and needs replacing?

    Thanks,

    DC

    All I can recommend is switching it off for a while, turn it on again, and see if it starts working properly.
    So you are an IT guy then?
    No, but sometimes that's worked for me, after I've tried more complicated ways of sorting problems with the internet hub.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 31,942
    Gardenwalker said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    Gardenwalker said:

    With 6% counted, National and Act have enough seats to form a government without the annoying populists, NZFirst.

    63 seats out of 120. 64 out of 121 if you include the bonus I mentioned earlier.

    So, close, but looks pretty good for them.

    Swing to the right, or just tired with the incumbents and time to chuck the buggers out?
    The latter. Ardern saw the writing on the wall and bailed.
    Jacinda Ardern saw the writing on the wall and bailed after getting on for eight years as Prime Minister, which is long enough based on the fate of longer-serving British premiers or American term limits. A good innings for a former New Labour SpAd.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 16,690
    I wonder if she will stand for the Tories next year? I suspect not. Probably a Labour gain anyway. There's certainly a nasty edge to SNP support. It's wrong to claim it is representative of the party's support more broadly, but equally wrong to deny it's there. I was certainly aware of it growing up. I suspect it's inevitable with a nationalist party - nationalism is something that always stirs some ugly passions in some people.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,089
    MarqueeMark said:

    Andy_JS said:

    DoubleCarpet said:

    Morning all, internet issues (BT Hub a solid orange) :( so tethering from phone.

    Does anyone have any technical advice, does this mean the hub has packed up and needs replacing?

    Thanks,

    DC

    All I can recommend is switching it off for a while, turn it on again, and see if it starts working properly.
    So you are an IT guy then?
    “Hello, IT. Have you tried turning it off and on again?”

    Genius television. https://youtube.com/watch?v=nn2FB1P_Mn8

  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 44,442
    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    Gardenwalker said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    Gardenwalker said:

    With 6% counted, National and Act have enough seats to form a government without the annoying populists, NZFirst.

    63 seats out of 120. 64 out of 121 if you include the bonus I mentioned earlier.

    So, close, but looks pretty good for them.

    Swing to the right, or just tired with the incumbents and time to chuck the buggers out?
    The latter. Ardern saw the writing on the wall and bailed.
    Jacinda Ardern saw the writing on the wall and bailed after getting on for eight years as Prime Minister, which is long enough based on the fate of longer-serving British premiers or American term limits. A good innings for a former New Labour SpAd.
    An aeon compared to the average shelf life of recent Tory PMs (and lettuces).
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    Speaking to the Mail in her first interview since the shock defection, which was engineered by the personal intervention of Prime Minister Rishi Sunak, she said: ‘It feels like a relief. I feel like I can look forward now to a much more positive future in politics and the work that I do in the Parliament, where I can be supported and my own welfare can be looked after too.....

    ‘Speaking to the Prime Minister and the time he spent with me listening to how I felt about things, taking on board some of the issues I had in terms of wanting a victim-led approach in the Parliament and feeling very supported by him. It just feels very, very different and very positive.’

    Following her decision to speak up in support of the harassment victim of MP Patrick Grady last year, she was ostracised and ignored by colleagues.

    Since urging them to think about the junior staff member who was the victim of the former SNP chief whip’s approaches, she said MPs became increasingly hostile and would pretend she wasn’t there.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12628907/My-regret-didnt-leave-SNP-cult-sooner.html
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,435
    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    Gardenwalker said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    Gardenwalker said:

    With 6% counted, National and Act have enough seats to form a government without the annoying populists, NZFirst.

    63 seats out of 120. 64 out of 121 if you include the bonus I mentioned earlier.

    So, close, but looks pretty good for them.

    Swing to the right, or just tired with the incumbents and time to chuck the buggers out?
    The latter. Ardern saw the writing on the wall and bailed.
    Jacinda Ardern saw the writing on the wall and bailed after getting on for eight years as Prime Minister, which is long enough based on the fate of longer-serving British premiers or American term limits. A good innings for a former New Labour SpAd.
    Five years.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,509
    JosiasJessop said:

    MarqueeMark said:

    Claimed Russian losses in Ukraine for the past 4 days:

    Military personnel: 820 +990 +1030 +970 = 3,810

    Tanks: 34 + 42 + 26 + 9 = 111

    Armoured fighting vehicles: 91 + 44 + 49 + 24 = 208

    Artillery: 18 + 32 + 44 + 26 = 120

    Whilst exact figures are hard to come by, from the videos that have come out it appears that the Russian attack has been very costly. Quite what Ukrainian losses have been, or the gains Russia have (or have not) made from the attack, are other questions.
    To give some context to these Russian numbers of 3,810, combined Allied KIA on D-Day were 4,414....
  • LeonLeon Posts: 63,449
    I got my printer working again by basically switching off my entire home and switching everything on again. Process took 30 minutes. Convenient
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 36,537
    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    I wonder if she will stand for the Tories next year? I suspect not. Probably a Labour gain anyway. There's certainly a nasty edge to SNP support. It's wrong to claim it is representative of the party's support more broadly, but equally wrong to deny it's there. I was certainly aware of it growing up. I suspect it's inevitable with a nationalist party - nationalism is something that always stirs some ugly passions in some people.

    IIRC she's said she won't be standing at the general election.
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,398
    Malmesbury said:

    ydoethur said:

    DoubleCarpet said:

    Morning all, internet issues (BT Hub a solid orange) :( so tethering from phone.

    Does anyone have any technical advice, does this mean the hub has packed up and needs replacing?

    Thanks,

    DC

    Bitter experience suggests more usually an internet issue. Have you rung BT and asked them to check the line?
    Ah yes

    1) Call BT
    2) 216 years later get through to their Unhelp Desk
    3) Be transferred 37 times
    4) Someone claims that nothing is wrong and promises to send and engineer before the heat death of the universe
    5) At some point after your call, the internet connection is magically restored.
    I used to stay with BT because I assumed that there is no realistic alternative. But then our home broadband kept cutting out to the point where it was useless. I repeatedly called them to complain and BT kept telling me there was nothing wrong with it. I then started using a 4G portable modem which was faster and cheaper and has no contract.

    The impression I get of BT is that it is a zombie company, it just has a massive customer base which it thinks of as a monopoly.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 36,537
    Leon said:

    I got my printer working again by basically switching off my entire home and switching everything on again. Process took 30 minutes. Convenient

    Usually the best solution to technology problems.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 14,961
    Morning all :)

    Yes, the numbers are looking awful for Labour in New Zealand. National polling over 40% will mean they and ACT will likely get a parliamentary majority without needing the support of Winston Peters and NZ First.

    The numbers last time were Labour 48%, National 34% - currently (23% counted) it's National 42%, Labour 26% so that's a 15% swing to National (not far off what's being predicted here by the way) but the switch of votes suggests it's more about the collapse of Labour than a ringing endorsement of National.

    All the minor parties (Greens, ACT, Maori, NZ First) are up by small amounts and all will get a slice of the Labour carcass.

    National will gain 19 seats to 52 (still below the 2017 number) with Labour losing half their caucus to 32-33 seats. There are early indications it could be worse than that with some susrprisingly strong National performances in previously solid Labour seats.

    Last time, Labour and National won 98 out of the 120 seats but this time Greens (13), ACT (12), NZ First (8) and Maori (5) will form a stronger "minor" grouping in the new Parliament.

    None of this will matter in the short term - it now looks certain Christopher Luxon will become New Zealand's new Prime Minister and will govern in coalition with ACT and the dynamic between Luxon and ACT leader Seymour in Government will be interesting.

  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 46,341
    Sandpit said:

    MarqueeMark said:

    Andy_JS said:

    DoubleCarpet said:

    Morning all, internet issues (BT Hub a solid orange) :( so tethering from phone.

    Does anyone have any technical advice, does this mean the hub has packed up and needs replacing?

    Thanks,

    DC

    All I can recommend is switching it off for a while, turn it on again, and see if it starts working properly.
    So you are an IT guy then?
    “Hello, IT. Have you tried turning it off and on again?”

    Genius television. https://youtube.com/watch?v=nn2FB1P_Mn8

    What I didn't realise until I worked for an electronics company is that you shouldn't just turn them off, then immediately switch them back on again. Turn off the power, count to 5 (or 10...), and then turn it back on again. This allows capacitors and other lovely gubbins to settle into their proper 'off' state.

    Also, AIUI flicking the switch off and on immediately can lead to other issues as well such as voltage spikes.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 35,344
    darkage said:

    Malmesbury said:

    ydoethur said:

    DoubleCarpet said:

    Morning all, internet issues (BT Hub a solid orange) :( so tethering from phone.

    Does anyone have any technical advice, does this mean the hub has packed up and needs replacing?

    Thanks,

    DC

    Bitter experience suggests more usually an internet issue. Have you rung BT and asked them to check the line?
    Ah yes

    1) Call BT
    2) 216 years later get through to their Unhelp Desk
    3) Be transferred 37 times
    4) Someone claims that nothing is wrong and promises to send and engineer before the heat death of the universe
    5) At some point after your call, the internet connection is magically restored.
    I used to stay with BT because I assumed that there is no realistic alternative. But then our home broadband kept cutting out to the point where it was useless. I repeatedly called them to complain and BT kept telling me there was nothing wrong with it. I then started using a 4G portable modem which was faster and cheaper and has no contract.

    The impression I get of BT is that it is a zombie company, it just has a massive customer base which it thinks of as a monopoly.
    Good morning everyone. Much better weather here today.

    Last time, about 15 months ago, I rang BT Help the chap I spoke to was most helpful. Sorted out the problem and indeed I ended up with a better service and two new handheld phones.
    Actually they’re a mixed blessing because it’s on their number that we get the vast majority of our scam calls.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,509
    NZ - I note that the Women's Rights Party got only half the votes of the Animal Justice Party.
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,251
    Sandpit said:

    MarqueeMark said:

    Andy_JS said:

    DoubleCarpet said:

    Morning all, internet issues (BT Hub a solid orange) :( so tethering from phone.

    Does anyone have any technical advice, does this mean the hub has packed up and needs replacing?

    Thanks,

    DC

    All I can recommend is switching it off for a while, turn it on again, and see if it starts working properly.
    So you are an IT guy then?
    “Hello, IT. Have you tried turning it off and on again?”

    Genius television. https://youtube.com/watch?v=nn2FB1P_Mn8

    It even works on trains:

    https://youtu.be/86oqnk--X_A?si=A9fJD-wqsMVLUlWc

    (fast forward to 12:00)
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,089
    JosiasJessop said:

    Sandpit said:

    MarqueeMark said:

    Andy_JS said:

    DoubleCarpet said:

    Morning all, internet issues (BT Hub a solid orange) :( so tethering from phone.

    Does anyone have any technical advice, does this mean the hub has packed up and needs replacing?

    Thanks,

    DC

    All I can recommend is switching it off for a while, turn it on again, and see if it starts working properly.
    So you are an IT guy then?
    “Hello, IT. Have you tried turning it off and on again?”

    Genius television. https://youtube.com/watch?v=nn2FB1P_Mn8

    What I didn't realise until I worked for an electronics company is that you shouldn't just turn them off, then immediately switch them back on again. Turn off the power, count to 5 (or 10...), and then turn it back on again. This allows capacitors and other lovely gubbins to settle into their proper 'off' state.

    Also, AIUI flicking the switch off and on immediately can lead to other issues as well such as voltage spikes.
    Yes, an uncontrolled shutdown should be followed by a pause of 10s or so, depending on the device, to make sure capacitors and other such electronics have actually gone off properly.

    A 1s or 2s power interruption is what blows up stuff, which is why your electonics should have a UPS, or at least a smoothed power supply that will stay off when interrupted.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 33,299
    ...
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,089
    El_Capitano said:

    Sandpit said:

    MarqueeMark said:

    Andy_JS said:

    DoubleCarpet said:

    Morning all, internet issues (BT Hub a solid orange) :( so tethering from phone.

    Does anyone have any technical advice, does this mean the hub has packed up and needs replacing?

    Thanks,

    DC

    All I can recommend is switching it off for a while, turn it on again, and see if it starts working properly.
    So you are an IT guy then?
    “Hello, IT. Have you tried turning it off and on again?”

    Genius television. https://youtube.com/watch?v=nn2FB1P_Mn8

    It even works on trains:

    https://youtu.be/86oqnk--X_A?si=A9fJD-wqsMVLUlWc

    (fast forward to 12:00)
    Planes as well. Pilots are often asked to ‘cycle’ a circuit breaker or two, in response to problems with systems in flight, and the systems are designed to reset and in some cases recalibrate themselves, following a power cycle.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,997
    Peter_the_Punter said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "‘Angry’ lawyer warned against Post Office computer investigation in 2010 email
    Angered by his exclusion from an important discussion, former Royal Mail lawyer told colleagues of the risks to the Post Office if, as planned, they publicly investigate allegations against its computer system
    Karl Flinders, Chief reporter and senior editor EMEA"

    https://www.computerweekly.com/news/366555336/Angry-lawyer-warned-against-Post-Office-computer-investigation-in-2010-email

    "Top Post Office solicitor told colleagues: ‘Get on with prosecuting’
    By John Hyde"

    https://www.lawgazette.co.uk/news/top-post-office-solicitor-told-colleagues-get-on-with-prosecuting/5117538.article

    The story gets worse and worse.
    Stunning.

    If the Inquiry does its work properly, and it is followed up rigorously, we can expect to see hundreds in court facing charges of perjury and attempting to pervert the course of justice.
    In my bid for the most blatant statement of the obvious this morning, I would comment that I wouldn't count on it. It is one of the worst failures of our justice system in history but it will be swept away with very few, if any, being actually held to account.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,733
    darkage said:

    Malmesbury said:

    ydoethur said:

    DoubleCarpet said:

    Morning all, internet issues (BT Hub a solid orange) :( so tethering from phone.

    Does anyone have any technical advice, does this mean the hub has packed up and needs replacing?

    Thanks,

    DC

    Bitter experience suggests more usually an internet issue. Have you rung BT and asked them to check the line?
    Ah yes

    1) Call BT
    2) 216 years later get through to their Unhelp Desk
    3) Be transferred 37 times
    4) Someone claims that nothing is wrong and promises to send and engineer before the heat death of the universe
    5) At some point after your call, the internet connection is magically restored.
    I used to stay with BT because I assumed that there is no realistic alternative. But then our home broadband kept cutting out to the point where it was useless. I repeatedly called them to complain and BT kept telling me there was nothing wrong with it. I then started using a 4G portable modem which was faster and cheaper and has no contract.

    The impression I get of BT is that it is a zombie company, it just has a massive customer base which it thinks of as a monopoly.
    FWIW I've been with them for years, for both broadband and mobile. The service has been consistently excellent, much better than Vodafone, who I used previously. They've recently nudged me into moving to EE for mobile, which I felt nervous about, but that too went almost flawlessly with fast telephone assistance for a query. That said, when I did have a problem, BT phone response time to report the problem was a tedious 45 minutes. So: service great, helpline rubbish.

    I think there's a lot of luck in it. I do remember helping someone get broadband via the Post Office, and I was astonished to find that their helpline consistently produced a helpful human within two minutes. They weren't the absolute cheapest but the experience made it feel worth it. Sadly they've now sold the business to Shell.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,772
    MarqueeMark said:

    NZ - I note that the Women's Rights Party got only half the votes of the Animal Justice Party.

    Maybe it's an Antipodean thing?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hD5Td-cJEKY
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,435
    Labour is being absolutely slaughtered in NZ.

    The highest profile casualty looks to be the tattooed Foreign Minister, Nanaia Mahuta, turfed out of one of the safest (Māori) seats in the country.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,980
    stodge said:

    None of this will matter in the short term - it now looks certain Christopher Luxon will become New Zealand's new Prime Minister and will govern in coalition with ACT and the dynamic between Luxon and ACT leader Seymour in Government will be interesting.

    Luxon is bald. I thought that was a big no no for a political leader.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,997
    Andy_JS said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    I wonder if she will stand for the Tories next year? I suspect not. Probably a Labour gain anyway. There's certainly a nasty edge to SNP support. It's wrong to claim it is representative of the party's support more broadly, but equally wrong to deny it's there. I was certainly aware of it growing up. I suspect it's inevitable with a nationalist party - nationalism is something that always stirs some ugly passions in some people.

    IIRC she's said she won't be standing at the general election.
    In her constituency. There is a comparatively safe Tory seat, at one time the only one they had in Scotland, becoming vacant pretty much next door.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 63,449
    YES already losing badly after just 0.5% votes counted in Oz

    63-37

    It’s gonna be a thrashing, and a humiliation for the PM
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,859
    Looks like the right might get a majority in NZ without Winston Peters
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,435
    Labour are also on track to lose Mt Albert, formerly seat of two Labour PMs (Jacinda Ardern and Helen Clark).
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 35,344
    DavidL said:

    Peter_the_Punter said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "‘Angry’ lawyer warned against Post Office computer investigation in 2010 email
    Angered by his exclusion from an important discussion, former Royal Mail lawyer told colleagues of the risks to the Post Office if, as planned, they publicly investigate allegations against its computer system
    Karl Flinders, Chief reporter and senior editor EMEA"

    https://www.computerweekly.com/news/366555336/Angry-lawyer-warned-against-Post-Office-computer-investigation-in-2010-email

    "Top Post Office solicitor told colleagues: ‘Get on with prosecuting’
    By John Hyde"

    https://www.lawgazette.co.uk/news/top-post-office-solicitor-told-colleagues-get-on-with-prosecuting/5117538.article

    The story gets worse and worse.
    Stunning.

    If the Inquiry does its work properly, and it is followed up rigorously, we can expect to see hundreds in court facing charges of perjury and attempting to pervert the course of justice.
    In my bid for the most blatant statement of the obvious this morning, I would comment that I wouldn't count on it. It is one of the worst failures of our justice system in history but it will be swept away with very few, if any, being actually held to account.
    I’m looking forward to seeing some of the Board when the process started being subjected to some detailed questioning at the Inquiry.
    I get the impression that Chair is keeping his powder dry, but is getting crosser as more and more is brought to light.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,509
    Looks like Colorado will be the first state to decide whether Trump is off the ballot in 2024.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Z9Yl4t8Ero&ab_channel=BrianTylerCohen

    (Although, highly likely that whether Trump wins or loses, it will go all the way to the Supreme Court as Presidential elections are a federal matter. Then look to the Trump appointees on that Supreme Court...)
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 36,537
    Mt Albert was 71% to 19% last time.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,089
    Gardenwalker said:

    Labour is being absolutely slaughtered in NZ.

    The highest profile casualty looks to be the tattooed Foreign Minister, Nanaia Mahuta, turfed out of one of the safest (Māori) seats in the country.

    Incumbents everywhere in the West are going to get smashed, it’s simply the consequence of events of the past handful of years. Every country is up to their neck in debt and inflation, with very little room for manoeuvre; the hope has to be that their political replacements are generally the centre rather than extreme parties.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 63,449
    This is a hilariously poor result for YES. A slap in the face for performative Woke politics
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,029
    Met police seem to have said anyone with a Hamas flag will be arrested.

    Could be an 'interesting' day in the capital I guess.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 15,753
    Good morning from the site of this week’s most dramatic news story, on the first day of Autumn.


  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 36,537
    edited October 2023
    Australia results

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/elections/referendum/2023/results?filter=all&sort=az&state=all&party=all

    Canberra voting yes.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,697
    edited October 2023
    Leon said:

    YES already losing badly after just 0.5% votes counted in Oz

    63-37

    It’s gonna be a thrashing, and a humiliation for the PM

    Is this the Australia referendum? Rural Tasmania likely to be reporting first.

    Somewhere, some Australian is keeping an AndyJS style spreadsheet and knows exactly what that means.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 63,449
    Bad for YES in Tassie, Victoria and NSW. But they’re doing well in… Canberra

    Only hope is a massive turnout for YES in, er, Queensland
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,089
    rottenborough said:

    Met police seem to have said anyone with a Hamas flag will be arrested.

    Could be an 'interesting' day in the capital I guess.

    Hamas is in the same category as ISIS, a proscribed terrorist organisation.

    Waving Palestinian flags and chanting about the plight of the Palestinian people is fine. Waving Hamas flags and chanting ‘Death to the Jews’, isnt.
This discussion has been closed.

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