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They'll be running out of virgins in paradise.Leon said:
And they are about to lose all the restEabhal said:
One thing I've learnt this attack is how important scale is for terrorist attacks.Leon said:Turns out there was another brutal massacre on October 7. Kibbutz Be’eri. 100 dead minimum: same procedure - kill every Jew they could, no matter what age
There is one video which just shows the bloody aftermath. A river of blood. I shan’t link
One of the many chilling aspects of these crimes is the way they offer a glimpse of what a brutal pogrom must have been like, or indeed one of the “relatively minor” but hideous atrocities of the Holocaust
In particular I’m reminded of this: the Kovno garage massacre. Click at your discretion
https://rarehistoricalphotos.com/kovno-garage-massacre-lithuania-1941/
In one respect, it's a huge failure for Hamas. 1:1 victims:terrorists must make it the least efficient attack in history. And they've lost all of their best fighters.
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The airport is owned by Luton Borough Council - so if they can't claim insurance, the dividends will be lower for a while, and the council's finances may come under strain.Sandpit said:Apparently the car park hasn’t been open long, and cost £20m to construct. Presumably that’s not coming from one poor sod’s car insurance, but will be the airport claiming on their own for the cost of cleaning up and rebuilding it - and maybe even the loss of revenue for several months while they do?
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This is why we come to PB.Big_G_NorthWales said:
it was a defining moment in fire safety for modern upholstered furnituretwistedfirestopper3 said:
Will it eck lead to looking at putting out fires. Who's going to spend money on that? We already know how to put fires out. It's just a car fire in a car park. Happens every day. The Luton one was just a bit bigger. You need to calm down, old fella.Big_G_NorthWales said:
This fire, whether an ICE vehicle or an EV started it, will lead to an enquiry which will look at all aspects of the consequences including the different fire fighting capabilities to extinguish an ICE car fire from an EV one and to the safety of serious car fires in confined car parksStocky said:
Did you have concerns about this before EVs were invented?Mexicanpete said:
I quite regularly see ICE cars merrily burning away on the hard should because a failed fuel hose pumps benzene all over the hot manifold. E10 bio-ethanol rich petrol eats non compatible (older and generally ULEZ non compliant) vehicle fuel lines. Best to ban all petrol cars and vans I guess.RochdalePioneers said:
The car park fire in Liverpool in 2018 destroyed a whole car park full of cars. Started by an LPG vehicle, once temperatures got high enough the fire spread from car to car, with one igniting every 30 seconds at the worst and rivers of flaming fuel spreading the conflagration even further.Nigelb said:
And what implications if it was a petrol engined car ?Big_G_NorthWales said:
I haven't heard anyone suggest evs be banned, and may I say a rather extreme response to an incident that could have implications for evs and how to ensure safety is addressed and even regulated effectivelyRochdalePioneers said:The Luton airport fire demonstrates just how dangerous EVs are. Normal petrol and diesel cars do not have anything flammable - no tanks full of explosive liquids - and so are immune to fire.
Time to Ban EVs. For the children.
So yes. I can understand why the blame is being put on EVs this time. There is a risk they might catch fire and be hard to put out...
The anti-EV hysteria from the right is so bad as to actually be funny.
Are you seriously comparing an easily-extinguished car fire on the hard shoulder to a car parked in a multi-storey carpark which autonomously combusts (if this is what happened) with up to 1500 other cars and maybe dozens of people present?
Those who are reacting by calling it a right wing plot or similar are not recognising that incidents like this create regulation which in turn protects the public from danger
It is why I referred to the 1979 Woolworths fire which led to the Furniture and Furnishings Fire Safety Regulation of 1988
This is not political, but is an example of how we should learn from serious incidents and improve for the benefit of all10 -
A question: in your expertise have you known a petrol or diesel car to autonomously combust after being left parked a while? I'm trying to understand how common this scenario is and balance against the number of cars on the road. I've never heard of this happening but you are the guy to ask.twistedfirestopper3 said:
Fella, it's a car fire in a car park. No one died. No great legislation will come out of it. Cars parked next to each other in a multi storey structure are going to burn in the event one of them goes up. No new firefighting techniques will come out of it, but "lessons will be learned" around the lack of sprinklers. Get over it.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I was actually involved in the legislation following the Woolworths fire and it was a defining moment in fire safety for modern upholstered furnituretwistedfirestopper3 said:
Will it eck lead to looking at putting out fires. Who's going to spend money on that? We already know how to put fires out. It's just a car fire in a car park. Happens every day. The Luton one was just a bit bigger. You need to calm down, old fella.Big_G_NorthWales said:
This fire, whether an ICE vehicle or an EV started it, will lead to an enquiry which will look at all aspects of the consequences including the different fire fighting capabilities to extinguish an ICE car fire from an EV one and to the safety of serious car fires in confined car parksStocky said:
Did you have concerns about this before EVs were invented?Mexicanpete said:
I quite regularly see ICE cars merrily burning away on the hard should because a failed fuel hose pumps benzene all over the hot manifold. E10 bio-ethanol rich petrol eats non compatible (older and generally ULEZ non compliant) vehicle fuel lines. Best to ban all petrol cars and vans I guess.RochdalePioneers said:
The car park fire in Liverpool in 2018 destroyed a whole car park full of cars. Started by an LPG vehicle, once temperatures got high enough the fire spread from car to car, with one igniting every 30 seconds at the worst and rivers of flaming fuel spreading the conflagration even further.Nigelb said:
And what implications if it was a petrol engined car ?Big_G_NorthWales said:
I haven't heard anyone suggest evs be banned, and may I say a rather extreme response to an incident that could have implications for evs and how to ensure safety is addressed and even regulated effectivelyRochdalePioneers said:The Luton airport fire demonstrates just how dangerous EVs are. Normal petrol and diesel cars do not have anything flammable - no tanks full of explosive liquids - and so are immune to fire.
Time to Ban EVs. For the children.
So yes. I can understand why the blame is being put on EVs this time. There is a risk they might catch fire and be hard to put out...
The anti-EV hysteria from the right is so bad as to actually be funny.
Are you seriously comparing an easily-extinguished car fire on the hard shoulder to a car parked in a multi-storey carpark which autonomously combusts (if this is what happened) with up to 1500 other cars and maybe dozens of people present?
Those who are reacting by calling it a right wing plot or similar are not recognising that incidents like this create regulation which in turn protects the public from danger
It is why I referred to the 1979 Woolworths fire which led to the Furniture and Furnishings Fire Safety Regulation of 1988
This is not political, but is an example of how we should learn from serious incidents and improve for the benefit of all
Your attempt to downplay a fire of this magnitude is surprising in view of your fire service but what if this fire had taken lives
It is not 'just a car fire' anymore than Woolworths fire was just a fire in a furniture shop
And please do not patronise me0 -
I think its precautionary, plus we are now in a situation where asking people to put a mask on in hospital is not seen as an extreme reaction, and in many ways its a sensible thing. Hospitals tend to be full of sick people as a rule.Foxy said:
There is a definite uptick in cases and it isn't a trivial illness, though vastly less risky than the first wave. Then the virus was more lower tract than upper, and falling on an immune naive population. Between vaccination and infection nearly everyone has some immunity now.turbotubbs said:
Its not a new variant.MattW said:
My GP has offered me one for around now, but I had one booster in August ahead of chemo - so I need to find out if it is a new variant.Stocky said:Anyone know what is happening with Covid booster eligibility?
I thought you had to be over 65 and there is no private option but have seen this:
"There will be a Covid Vaccination clinic running at Tesco Car Park on Saturday 20th March between 12.30pm to 3.30pm. You, or anyone in your household over the age of 18 years, will be able to have your vaccine. There is no need to book an appointment, just turn up."
Is this just for those few who have had no vaccine at all or whether they are referring to boosters?
I don't doubt what they said, but its a question of which new variant and what vaccine were you given.Big_G_NorthWales said:
My wife and I had our covid vaccine last week and we were told it addressed the new variantturbotubbs said:
Its not a new variant.MattW said:
My GP has offered me one for around now, but I had one booster in August ahead of chemo - so I need to find out if it is a new variant.Stocky said:Anyone know what is happening with Covid booster eligibility?
I thought you had to be over 65 and there is no private option but have seen this:
"There will be a Covid Vaccination clinic running at Tesco Car Park on Saturday 20th March between 12.30pm to 3.30pm. You, or anyone in your household over the age of 18 years, will be able to have your vaccine. There is no need to book an appointment, just turn up."
Is this just for those few who have had no vaccine at all or whether they are referring to boosters?
Ironically, I picked my daughter up from the Euston train yesterday and took her home, last night she phoned and said she had tested positive for covid having attended a conference in London over the weekend
There was a change of plan by the UKHSA to bring forward covid boosters in response to a new variant a few months ago, and that is what is meant by "addressing the new variant". However, the vaccines, while tweaked from the initial ones in 2020, have not been updated for this new variant, and indeed there is no need, as the existing protection offered is fine. Boosters do just what it says on the tin - it will give a short lived uptick in your antibodies to help against infection, but will subside over time. This is normal, and the timing of a booster (campaign) is designed to hit the peak of the disease season (hence Oct/Nov for flu).
No-one really should care about testing positive now, other than to guide their actions in respect of others. I might not want to visit people with weaker immune systems. for instance, although that advice ought to be the same for coughs, colds and other bugs too.
The powers that be are clearly worried though. Masks are compulsory in clinical areas again in many hospitals, and we are all having mask fit training for the new FFP3 masks and respirators that have appeared in the stock rooms.
I hope it is just the precautionary principle, but someone senior is worried.
I'm wary of case data - the significance is only really impact on hopsitals, especially as we go into winter. And once again we will have many people with covid NOT as the primary reason for hospitalization.1 -
lol yes. There is that upsideSirNorfolkPassmore said:
If this means we'll be spared the tedious holiday snaps in future then I, for one, say "bravo" to the boffins at Vanilla HQ.Leon said:In non war news, what the feck is wrong with Vanilla?
It now has multiple issues. Photos are nearly always tiny to the point of invisibility. But not always? It sometimes makes me sign in and out, constantly
And the quoting problems are ridiculous. Sometimes it mangles hour old comments and shoves them in an entirely new comment. Why?
It’s becoming frustratingly difficult to use. I blame Elon Musk
But - above and beyond my snaps of champagne bottles next to banyan trees - the inability to post proper sized images is a drag
Look at that news clip about the Starmer protester @TSE has just posted. It’s microscopic. You have to get special lenses to read it
This is a shame. We used to be able to illustrate comments visually. Now we can’t0 -
One aspect of EVs is that many (most?) armour the battery pack, which is at the bottom of the vehicle, so an fire doesn’t go up, down or sideways. Any fire is vented forward or backwards.RochdalePioneers said:
As they did in Liverpool in very large numbers.twistedfirestopper3 said:I have probably been to over a hundred ICE vehicle fires, though. Cars, trucks, buses, bikes, a light aircraft, a few boats. Lots of arson, but ICE cars catch fire quite easily on their own.
This is an effect of armouring the pack to protect it from damage, and protect the passengers in the vehicle from any fire.0 -
They ask if you have had booster in last 6 months so likely will not give you one. I turned mine down but took flu vaccine.MattW said:
My GP has offered me one for around now, but I had one booster in August ahead of chemo - so I need to find out if it is a new variant.Stocky said:Anyone know what is happening with Covid booster eligibility?
I thought you had to be over 65 and there is no private option but have seen this:
"There will be a Covid Vaccination clinic running at Tesco Car Park on Saturday 20th March between 12.30pm to 3.30pm. You, or anyone in your household over the age of 18 years, will be able to have your vaccine. There is no need to book an appointment, just turn up."
Is this just for those few who have had no vaccine at all or whether they are referring to boosters?0 -
I imagine the ones they are getting now are the older models - the ones who kept themselves for the "right" man, but never found them, and died aged 80 or so.SandyRentool said:
They'll be running out of virgins in paradise.Leon said:
And they are about to lose all the restEabhal said:
One thing I've learnt this attack is how important scale is for terrorist attacks.Leon said:Turns out there was another brutal massacre on October 7. Kibbutz Be’eri. 100 dead minimum: same procedure - kill every Jew they could, no matter what age
There is one video which just shows the bloody aftermath. A river of blood. I shan’t link
One of the many chilling aspects of these crimes is the way they offer a glimpse of what a brutal pogrom must have been like, or indeed one of the “relatively minor” but hideous atrocities of the Holocaust
In particular I’m reminded of this: the Kovno garage massacre. Click at your discretion
https://rarehistoricalphotos.com/kovno-garage-massacre-lithuania-1941/
In one respect, it's a huge failure for Hamas. 1:1 victims:terrorists must make it the least efficient attack in history. And they've lost all of their best fighters.
Not the virgins these chaps are expecting...0 -
I don't see this issue as really worthy of discussion - all discussing it seems to do is bring a little of the misery and conflict and intractability of the situation into PB. They've been at it for decades; leave them to it. Perhaps when they realise they're not getting any attention, they will stop.Leon said:
@Anabobazina was talking about PB. He wants us to stop talking about Gaza/israel because it upsets him. Or if we do talk about it we can only do it in very general ways or he gets tearfulBig_G_NorthWales said:
I wasn't talking about PB but Sky and BBCLeon said:
How many children are “watching PB”?!Big_G_NorthWales said:
We don't agree often but on this I certainly doAnabobazina said:Is there somewhere else PBers can post links/descriptions of murdered women and children? Call me a lily-livered shill if you will , but I find I can be aware of what’s happening without hearing of the detail.
TIA.
I listened to ITV report of the massacre at the Kfar Aza kibbutz and literally wept
I could not relate it to my wife, and whilst we need responsible reporting the tendency to upset is a concern not least for the number of children who may be watching
It’s fairly ridiculous. Every news and social media is discussing it in depth. Yes it is hard and distressing. But it is the news0 -
Wait until they realise the virgins are male.turbotubbs said:
I imagine the ones they are getting now are the older models - the ones who kept themselves for the "right" man, but never found them, and died aged 80 or so.SandyRentool said:
They'll be running out of virgins in paradise.Leon said:
And they are about to lose all the restEabhal said:
One thing I've learnt this attack is how important scale is for terrorist attacks.Leon said:Turns out there was another brutal massacre on October 7. Kibbutz Be’eri. 100 dead minimum: same procedure - kill every Jew they could, no matter what age
There is one video which just shows the bloody aftermath. A river of blood. I shan’t link
One of the many chilling aspects of these crimes is the way they offer a glimpse of what a brutal pogrom must have been like, or indeed one of the “relatively minor” but hideous atrocities of the Holocaust
In particular I’m reminded of this: the Kovno garage massacre. Click at your discretion
https://rarehistoricalphotos.com/kovno-garage-massacre-lithuania-1941/
In one respect, it's a huge failure for Hamas. 1:1 victims:terrorists must make it the least efficient attack in history. And they've lost all of their best fighters.
Not the virgins these chaps are expecting...3 -
you are in a minority for sureSirNorfolkPassmore said:
If this means we'll be spared the tedious holiday snaps in future then I, for one, say "bravo" to the boffins at Vanilla HQ.Leon said:In non war news, what the feck is wrong with Vanilla?
It now has multiple issues. Photos are nearly always tiny to the point of invisibility. But not always? It sometimes makes me sign in and out, constantly
And the quoting problems are ridiculous. Sometimes it mangles hour old comments and shoves them in an entirely new comment. Why?
It’s becoming frustratingly difficult to use. I blame Elon Musk0 -
I thought that. I think she (or the director?) made the mistake doing late-period Thatcher from the beginning. She became LOTO at the age of 49 and PM at 53. Although she did age fast in office, the stiff movements, strained voice and rigid mouth (she had tooth problems) came later. By going full in to the Imperial Thatch version from the very beginning, she lost an arc.numbertwelve said:Gillian Anderson didn’t quite land her portrayal of Thatcher...
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It must have passed me by the point at which the public have become such great admirers of lawyers :-) and I say that even though my younger son is on his way to a legal career.
I always point out to him that as a Chartered Accountant, I enjoy more respect from the public than he ever will :-)
I suspect, and don't blame him, that he thinks he can earn more money as I lawyer that I ever have as an accountant, perhaps that might go some way to proving my point!0 -
Correct.Leon said:
The Hamas atrocities are front page news on every newspaper. With far more horrible detail than anything given here. I presume you are avoiding them as well?Anabobazina said:
It’s not possible to stop your brain reading something- known phenomenon. Ruining PB for me. YMMV.Leon said:
Good griefAnabobazina said:Is there somewhere else PBers can post links/descriptions of murdered women and children? Call me a lily-livered shill if you will , but I find I can be aware of what’s happening without hearing of the detail.
TIA.
No one is posting photos
No one is even posting LINKS to the worst images
What links are given come with warnings
You can’t really ask for much more insulation from reality than that. This is the dominant news story of the day - perhaps the year - and the latest appalling events are highly significant
No one is stopping you discussing the risks of electric vehicles starting fires in car parks; no one is stopping you scrolling past comments that make you flinch
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It was very incongruous, and Anderson is old enough to remember the real thing.viewcode said:
I thought that. I think she (or the director?) made the mistake doing late-period Thatcher from the beginning. She became LOTO at the age of 49 and PM at 53. Although she did age fast in office, the stiff movements, strained voice and rigid mouth (she had tooth problems) came later. By going full in to the Imperial Thatch version from the very beginning, she lost an arc.numbertwelve said:Gillian Anderson didn’t quite land her portrayal of Thatcher...
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I don't get tearful. I just find it ruins PB for me, which I chiefly visit for a) entertainment b) debate and c) betting tips, in that order. Maybe some PBers like this stuff – but in that case they are very different animals to me.Leon said:
@Anabobazina was talking about PB. He wants us to stop talking about Gaza/israel because it upsets him. Or if we do talk about it we can only do it in very general ways or he gets tearfulBig_G_NorthWales said:
I wasn't talking about PB but Sky and BBCLeon said:
How many children are “watching PB”?!Big_G_NorthWales said:
We don't agree often but on this I certainly doAnabobazina said:Is there somewhere else PBers can post links/descriptions of murdered women and children? Call me a lily-livered shill if you will , but I find I can be aware of what’s happening without hearing of the detail.
TIA.
I listened to ITV report of the massacre at the Kfar Aza kibbutz and literally wept
I could not relate it to my wife, and whilst we need responsible reporting the tendency to upset is a concern not least for the number of children who may be watching
It’s fairly ridiculous. Every news and social media is discussing it in depth. Yes it is hard and distressing. But it is the news0 -
It's closed. The owners don't know what to do with it.SirNorfolkPassmore said:Time for a quick half at the Eagle & Child?
https://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/23619982.exciting-changes-move-closer-oxford-eagle-child-pub/
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There's merit in both these views imo.RochdalePioneers said:
It *is* political. The right have been waging war against EVs because they are change and they are environmentalism. Its directly tied into the pro-Sunak anti-environmentalism nonsense.Big_G_NorthWales said:
This fire, whether an ICE vehicle or an EV started it, will lead to an enquiry which will look at all aspects of the consequences including the different fire fighting capabilities to extinguish an ICE car fire from an EV one and to the safety of serious car fires in confined car parksStocky said:
Did you have concerns about this before EVs were invented?Mexicanpete said:
I quite regularly see ICE cars merrily burning away on the hard should because a failed fuel hose pumps benzene all over the hot manifold. E10 bio-ethanol rich petrol eats non compatible (older and generally ULEZ non compliant) vehicle fuel lines. Best to ban all petrol cars and vans I guess.RochdalePioneers said:
The car park fire in Liverpool in 2018 destroyed a whole car park full of cars. Started by an LPG vehicle, once temperatures got high enough the fire spread from car to car, with one igniting every 30 seconds at the worst and rivers of flaming fuel spreading the conflagration even further.Nigelb said:
And what implications if it was a petrol engined car ?Big_G_NorthWales said:
I haven't heard anyone suggest evs be banned, and may I say a rather extreme response to an incident that could have implications for evs and how to ensure safety is addressed and even regulated effectivelyRochdalePioneers said:The Luton airport fire demonstrates just how dangerous EVs are. Normal petrol and diesel cars do not have anything flammable - no tanks full of explosive liquids - and so are immune to fire.
Time to Ban EVs. For the children.
So yes. I can understand why the blame is being put on EVs this time. There is a risk they might catch fire and be hard to put out...
The anti-EV hysteria from the right is so bad as to actually be funny.
Are you seriously comparing an easily-extinguished car fire on the hard shoulder to a car parked in a multi-storey carpark which autonomously combusts (if this is what happened) with up to 1500 other cars and maybe dozens of people present?
Those who are reacting by calling it a right wing plot or similar are not recognising that incidents like this create regulation which in turn protects the public from danger
It is why I referred to the 1979 Woolworths fire which led to the Furniture and Furnishings Fire Safety Regulation of 1988
This is not political, but is an example of how we should learn from serious incidents and improve for the benefit of all
If EVs caught fire and burned harshly that is bad. But fuel cars car fire and burn fiercely. Car fires on the motorway usually require the road to be resurfaced underneath them. A car fire in a car park is bad because it concentrates the head and sets other cars on fire.
Again, Liverpool was nothing to do with EVs yet saw fuel cars exploding into flame every 30 seconds and sending rivers of liquid fire across the whole floor until it collapsed and spread the fire to other floors.
So whatever risk you and the rest of the reactionary right are trying to put on EVs *is already there* with fuel cars.
There will be an enquiry - and the correct body is probably the HSE - recommendations, and some changes of practice to reflect the different risks in the changed mix of vehicles. It will also I think address the design / build of the car park, which will be done to recent standards. Which is all fine and normal.
We can't really say any more until we have a professional analysis of the causes and progress of the fire.
It is political because elements, mainly of the political right, *are* weaponising these questions, and the current Govt see shouting about the fictional 'war on motorists' as one of the last straws they can grasp at. Credible candidates for Hail Mary passes are in increasingly short supply !
Someone asked about car parking spaces and spacing. I think any dimensions of car parking spaces are far smaller than potential fire spread distances. But it's correct that vehicles are larger and heavier, whilst advised standard sizes for parking spaces have not increased.
In keeping my eye on video reports, I'm seeing occasional examples of large 17ft-20ft long 7.5-8ft wide tonka-trucks imported from the USA getting tickets for using multiple, or disabled or family, spaces. Some of the behemoth purveyors even have networks of dealers here, now.3 -
Agreed. And Thatchers slow, deliberative delivery was used by her rhetorically - to make a point, as emphasis, to show strength.viewcode said:
I thought that. I think she (or the director?) made the mistake doing late-period Thatcher from the beginning. She became LOTO at the age of 49 and PM at 53. Although she did age fast in office, the stiff movements, strained voice and rigid mouth (she had tooth problems) came later. By going full in to the Imperial Thatch version from the very beginning, she lost an arc.numbertwelve said:Gillian Anderson didn’t quite land her portrayal of Thatcher...
It wasn’t her normal conversational manner as watching any interview with her will demonstrate. Weirdly, Anderson seemed to decide to portray her as if she talked like her conference speeches all day, every day.
Streep did a much better job at getting the essence right - though that film had an awful lot of issues too.1 -
There was that one I mentioned earlier which caused slight damage to an office window next to it, but the only reason PB latched onto it was to blame the SNP cos a Labour MP/MSP had an office in the building. So it does happen. But how often?Stocky said:
A question: in your expertise have you known a petrol or diesel car to autonomously combust after being left parked a while? I'm trying to understand how common this scenario is and balance against the number of cars on the road. I've never heard of this happening but you are the guy to ask.twistedfirestopper3 said:
Fella, it's a car fire in a car park. No one died. No great legislation will come out of it. Cars parked next to each other in a multi storey structure are going to burn in the event one of them goes up. No new firefighting techniques will come out of it, but "lessons will be learned" around the lack of sprinklers. Get over it.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I was actually involved in the legislation following the Woolworths fire and it was a defining moment in fire safety for modern upholstered furnituretwistedfirestopper3 said:
Will it eck lead to looking at putting out fires. Who's going to spend money on that? We already know how to put fires out. It's just a car fire in a car park. Happens every day. The Luton one was just a bit bigger. You need to calm down, old fella.Big_G_NorthWales said:
This fire, whether an ICE vehicle or an EV started it, will lead to an enquiry which will look at all aspects of the consequences including the different fire fighting capabilities to extinguish an ICE car fire from an EV one and to the safety of serious car fires in confined car parksStocky said:
Did you have concerns about this before EVs were invented?Mexicanpete said:
I quite regularly see ICE cars merrily burning away on the hard should because a failed fuel hose pumps benzene all over the hot manifold. E10 bio-ethanol rich petrol eats non compatible (older and generally ULEZ non compliant) vehicle fuel lines. Best to ban all petrol cars and vans I guess.RochdalePioneers said:
The car park fire in Liverpool in 2018 destroyed a whole car park full of cars. Started by an LPG vehicle, once temperatures got high enough the fire spread from car to car, with one igniting every 30 seconds at the worst and rivers of flaming fuel spreading the conflagration even further.Nigelb said:
And what implications if it was a petrol engined car ?Big_G_NorthWales said:
I haven't heard anyone suggest evs be banned, and may I say a rather extreme response to an incident that could have implications for evs and how to ensure safety is addressed and even regulated effectivelyRochdalePioneers said:The Luton airport fire demonstrates just how dangerous EVs are. Normal petrol and diesel cars do not have anything flammable - no tanks full of explosive liquids - and so are immune to fire.
Time to Ban EVs. For the children.
So yes. I can understand why the blame is being put on EVs this time. There is a risk they might catch fire and be hard to put out...
The anti-EV hysteria from the right is so bad as to actually be funny.
Are you seriously comparing an easily-extinguished car fire on the hard shoulder to a car parked in a multi-storey carpark which autonomously combusts (if this is what happened) with up to 1500 other cars and maybe dozens of people present?
Those who are reacting by calling it a right wing plot or similar are not recognising that incidents like this create regulation which in turn protects the public from danger
It is why I referred to the 1979 Woolworths fire which led to the Furniture and Furnishings Fire Safety Regulation of 1988
This is not political, but is an example of how we should learn from serious incidents and improve for the benefit of all
Your attempt to downplay a fire of this magnitude is surprising in view of your fire service but what if this fire had taken lives
It is not 'just a car fire' anymore than Woolworths fire was just a fire in a furniture shop
And please do not patronise me
But lots of houses have internal garages (albeit probably too small these days for the Morningside/Mayfair Sturmmannschaftkraftwagens anyway). And I've never heard of insurers complaining about cars parked in them. Perhaps the spare petrol can is more of a risk.1 -
Luckyguy1983 said:
I don't see this issue as really worthy of discussion - all discussing it seems to do is bring a little of the misery and conflict and intractability of the situation into PB. They've been at it for decades; leave them to it. Perhaps when they realise they're not getting any attention, they will stop.Leon said:
@Anabobazina was talking about PB. He wants us to stop talking about Gaza/israel because it upsets him. Or if we do talk about it we can only do it in very general ways or he gets tearfulBig_G_NorthWales said:
I wasn't talking about PB but Sky and BBCLeon said:
How many children are “watching PB”?!Big_G_NorthWales said:
We don't agree often but on this I certainly doAnabobazina said:Is there somewhere else PBers can post links/descriptions of murdered women and children? Call me a lily-livered shill if you will , but I find I can be aware of what’s happening without hearing of the detail.
TIA.
I listened to ITV report of the massacre at the Kfar Aza kibbutz and literally wept
I could not relate it to my wife, and whilst we need responsible reporting the tendency to upset is a concern not least for the number of children who may be watching
It’s fairly ridiculous. Every news and social media is discussing it in depth. Yes it is hard and distressing. But it is the news
I picture them now in Hamas HQ, southern Gaza
Jihadi 1: Sir, I have terrible news
Hamas commander: Allah preserve us, the Occupiers have finally invaded?
Jihadi 1: No, sir, even worse
Hamas commander: you don’t mean…
Jihadi 1: Aiwa. Yes. They’ve stopped talking about us on Mike Smithson’s politicalbetting.com after complaints from @anabobazina
Hamas commander: and the Welsh guy? Large G? What did he say??
Jihadi 1: Big G sir. He agreed with @Anabobazina and now many of our best militants are in despair
Hamas commander falls silent. The guns outside fade into quiet. Slowly he crumples the map on his desk. End6 -
Aww, sank many a pint there. The Fowl and Foetus as my scientific colleagues called it - or the Bird and Baby as the arty farties did.viewcode said:
It's closed. The owners don't know what to do with it.SirNorfolkPassmore said:Time for a quick half at the Eagle & Child?
https://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/23619982.exciting-changes-move-closer-oxford-eagle-child-pub/1 -
Series 1 and 2 were the best because Claire Foy is just brilliant in everything she does. It has been downhill since then for sure but I still love it. I actually thought Gillian Anderson did a good job of humanising Thatcher. I quite enjoyed the Charles and Diana psychodrama. I thought Dominic West was great as Charles although a bit too attractive to be realistic. If you didn't like series 4 you probably won't like series 5 either, although it was perhaps a bit better. In some ways the fading story reflects the fading reality - an ageing monarch in a diminishing country. They can only work with the material they have!numbertwelve said:
I stopped at series 4. The Charles and Diana psychodrama wasn’t of interest to me. It’s a story we’ve all heard told a hundred times before.OnlyLivingBoy said:
I can't wait. The Crown is my favourite historical documentary.viewcode said:Oh the trailer for "The Crown" season 6 has dropped. It's a teaser not a full trailer, so a bit dull. "Walking thru corridors whilst reminiscing" levels of dull. But there y'go.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykn9pD9H56U
I also felt it failed to give what was one of the most pivotal decades in our political history the full treatment it deserved. Gillian Anderson didn’t quite land her portrayal of Thatcher, and not enough was made of how transformational (for good or ill) her time in office really was.
I thought the first three series were riveting though. I don’t know what series 5 was like because I was so put off by series 4. I could be convinced to give it a go if it was a return to form.1 -
Gosh, I had no idea someone pulled the invader off. Glad we didn't see that in the pictures.TheScreamingEagles said:Meanwhile - and you knew this was coming - in the conspiracy gallery 😷, they are convinced yesterday's protest was staged.
The evidence for this?
"Note that it was women who pulled the 'invader' off." 👀~AA
https://twitter.com/BestForBritain/status/1712034457547366457/photo/11 -
Damn, beaten to it (no pun intended).northern_monkey said:
Women pulled the invader off, so it was at least a happy ending for him.TheScreamingEagles said:Meanwhile - and you knew this was coming - in the conspiracy gallery 😷, they are convinced yesterday's protest was staged.
The evidence for this?
"Note that it was women who pulled the 'invader' off." 👀~AA
https://twitter.com/BestForBritain/status/1712034457547366457/photo/11 -
Learn to scroll. Its not hardAnabobazina said:
I don't get tearful. I just find it ruins PB for me, which I chiefly visit for a) entertainment b) debate and c) betting tips, in that order. Maybe some PBers like this stuff – but in that case they are very different animals to me.Leon said:
@Anabobazina was talking about PB. He wants us to stop talking about Gaza/israel because it upsets him. Or if we do talk about it we can only do it in very general ways or he gets tearfulBig_G_NorthWales said:
I wasn't talking about PB but Sky and BBCLeon said:
How many children are “watching PB”?!Big_G_NorthWales said:
We don't agree often but on this I certainly doAnabobazina said:Is there somewhere else PBers can post links/descriptions of murdered women and children? Call me a lily-livered shill if you will , but I find I can be aware of what’s happening without hearing of the detail.
TIA.
I listened to ITV report of the massacre at the Kfar Aza kibbutz and literally wept
I could not relate it to my wife, and whilst we need responsible reporting the tendency to upset is a concern not least for the number of children who may be watching
It’s fairly ridiculous. Every news and social media is discussing it in depth. Yes it is hard and distressing. But it is the news
Example. I am finding this debate about the relative combustibility of electric vehicles monumentally dull and nerdish. If I had to read all the comments I would weep, like you
But I don’t. As soon as it becomes clear that this is the subject of the comment I scroll and move on. It can be done
I don’t loudly demand that people stop talking about it. Each to their own0 -
Is this the incident?:Carnyx said:
There was that one I mentioned earlier which caused slight damage to an office window next to it, but the only reason PB latched onto it was to blame the SNP cos a Labour MP/MSP had an office in the building. So it does happen. But how often?Stocky said:
A question: in your expertise have you known a petrol or diesel car to autonomously combust after being left parked a while? I'm trying to understand how common this scenario is and balance against the number of cars on the road. I've never heard of this happening but you are the guy to ask.twistedfirestopper3 said:
Fella, it's a car fire in a car park. No one died. No great legislation will come out of it. Cars parked next to each other in a multi storey structure are going to burn in the event one of them goes up. No new firefighting techniques will come out of it, but "lessons will be learned" around the lack of sprinklers. Get over it.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I was actually involved in the legislation following the Woolworths fire and it was a defining moment in fire safety for modern upholstered furnituretwistedfirestopper3 said:
Will it eck lead to looking at putting out fires. Who's going to spend money on that? We already know how to put fires out. It's just a car fire in a car park. Happens every day. The Luton one was just a bit bigger. You need to calm down, old fella.Big_G_NorthWales said:
This fire, whether an ICE vehicle or an EV started it, will lead to an enquiry which will look at all aspects of the consequences including the different fire fighting capabilities to extinguish an ICE car fire from an EV one and to the safety of serious car fires in confined car parksStocky said:
Did you have concerns about this before EVs were invented?Mexicanpete said:
I quite regularly see ICE cars merrily burning away on the hard should because a failed fuel hose pumps benzene all over the hot manifold. E10 bio-ethanol rich petrol eats non compatible (older and generally ULEZ non compliant) vehicle fuel lines. Best to ban all petrol cars and vans I guess.RochdalePioneers said:
The car park fire in Liverpool in 2018 destroyed a whole car park full of cars. Started by an LPG vehicle, once temperatures got high enough the fire spread from car to car, with one igniting every 30 seconds at the worst and rivers of flaming fuel spreading the conflagration even further.Nigelb said:
And what implications if it was a petrol engined car ?Big_G_NorthWales said:
I haven't heard anyone suggest evs be banned, and may I say a rather extreme response to an incident that could have implications for evs and how to ensure safety is addressed and even regulated effectivelyRochdalePioneers said:The Luton airport fire demonstrates just how dangerous EVs are. Normal petrol and diesel cars do not have anything flammable - no tanks full of explosive liquids - and so are immune to fire.
Time to Ban EVs. For the children.
So yes. I can understand why the blame is being put on EVs this time. There is a risk they might catch fire and be hard to put out...
The anti-EV hysteria from the right is so bad as to actually be funny.
Are you seriously comparing an easily-extinguished car fire on the hard shoulder to a car parked in a multi-storey carpark which autonomously combusts (if this is what happened) with up to 1500 other cars and maybe dozens of people present?
Those who are reacting by calling it a right wing plot or similar are not recognising that incidents like this create regulation which in turn protects the public from danger
It is why I referred to the 1979 Woolworths fire which led to the Furniture and Furnishings Fire Safety Regulation of 1988
This is not political, but is an example of how we should learn from serious incidents and improve for the benefit of all
Your attempt to downplay a fire of this magnitude is surprising in view of your fire service but what if this fire had taken lives
It is not 'just a car fire' anymore than Woolworths fire was just a fire in a furniture shop
And please do not patronise me
But lots of houses have internal garages (albeit probably too small these days for the Morningside/Mayfair Sturmmannschaftkraftwagens anyway). And I've never heard of insurers complaining about cars parked in them. Perhaps the spare petrol can is more of a risk.
https://www.thenational.scot/news/18908231.police-investigate-car-deliberately-torched-outside-home-labour-msp/0 -
"Pulled the invader off" -TheScreamingEagles said:Meanwhile - and you knew this was coming - in the conspiracy gallery 😷, they are convinced yesterday's protest was staged.
The evidence for this?
"Note that it was women who pulled the 'invader' off." 👀~AA
https://twitter.com/BestForBritain/status/1712034457547366457/photo/1
1 -
Just for clarity: I answered that somewhere after chatting to the GP receptionist - it's a new variant so a new jab, and I am booked in for 2 weeks' time.malcolmg said:
They ask if you have had booster in last 6 months so likely will not give you one. I turned mine down but took flu vaccine.MattW said:
My GP has offered me one for around now, but I had one booster in August ahead of chemo - so I need to find out if it is a new variant.Stocky said:Anyone know what is happening with Covid booster eligibility?
I thought you had to be over 65 and there is no private option but have seen this:
"There will be a Covid Vaccination clinic running at Tesco Car Park on Saturday 20th March between 12.30pm to 3.30pm. You, or anyone in your household over the age of 18 years, will be able to have your vaccine. There is no need to book an appointment, just turn up."
Is this just for those few who have had no vaccine at all or whether they are referring to boosters?0 -
To late - Mr Monkey beat you (!) to itTaz said:
"Pulled the invader off" -TheScreamingEagles said:Meanwhile - and you knew this was coming - in the conspiracy gallery 😷, they are convinced yesterday's protest was staged.
The evidence for this?
"Note that it was women who pulled the 'invader' off." 👀~AA
https://twitter.com/BestForBritain/status/1712034457547366457/photo/10 -
D'ohStocky said:
To late - Mr Monkey beat you (!) to itTaz said:
"Pulled the invader off" -TheScreamingEagles said:Meanwhile - and you knew this was coming - in the conspiracy gallery 😷, they are convinced yesterday's protest was staged.
The evidence for this?
"Note that it was women who pulled the 'invader' off." 👀~AA
https://twitter.com/BestForBritain/status/1712034457547366457/photo/1
There's a joke about monkey and spanking to be made here !!!!1 -
No. Was about 2012-14 IIRC. Just a spontaneous car fire, not a joyrider.Stocky said:
Is this the incident?:Carnyx said:
There was that one I mentioned earlier which caused slight damage to an office window next to it, but the only reason PB latched onto it was to blame the SNP cos a Labour MP/MSP had an office in the building. So it does happen. But how often?Stocky said:
A question: in your expertise have you known a petrol or diesel car to autonomously combust after being left parked a while? I'm trying to understand how common this scenario is and balance against the number of cars on the road. I've never heard of this happening but you are the guy to ask.twistedfirestopper3 said:
Fella, it's a car fire in a car park. No one died. No great legislation will come out of it. Cars parked next to each other in a multi storey structure are going to burn in the event one of them goes up. No new firefighting techniques will come out of it, but "lessons will be learned" around the lack of sprinklers. Get over it.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I was actually involved in the legislation following the Woolworths fire and it was a defining moment in fire safety for modern upholstered furnituretwistedfirestopper3 said:
Will it eck lead to looking at putting out fires. Who's going to spend money on that? We already know how to put fires out. It's just a car fire in a car park. Happens every day. The Luton one was just a bit bigger. You need to calm down, old fella.Big_G_NorthWales said:
This fire, whether an ICE vehicle or an EV started it, will lead to an enquiry which will look at all aspects of the consequences including the different fire fighting capabilities to extinguish an ICE car fire from an EV one and to the safety of serious car fires in confined car parksStocky said:
Did you have concerns about this before EVs were invented?Mexicanpete said:
I quite regularly see ICE cars merrily burning away on the hard should because a failed fuel hose pumps benzene all over the hot manifold. E10 bio-ethanol rich petrol eats non compatible (older and generally ULEZ non compliant) vehicle fuel lines. Best to ban all petrol cars and vans I guess.RochdalePioneers said:
The car park fire in Liverpool in 2018 destroyed a whole car park full of cars. Started by an LPG vehicle, once temperatures got high enough the fire spread from car to car, with one igniting every 30 seconds at the worst and rivers of flaming fuel spreading the conflagration even further.Nigelb said:
And what implications if it was a petrol engined car ?Big_G_NorthWales said:
I haven't heard anyone suggest evs be banned, and may I say a rather extreme response to an incident that could have implications for evs and how to ensure safety is addressed and even regulated effectivelyRochdalePioneers said:The Luton airport fire demonstrates just how dangerous EVs are. Normal petrol and diesel cars do not have anything flammable - no tanks full of explosive liquids - and so are immune to fire.
Time to Ban EVs. For the children.
So yes. I can understand why the blame is being put on EVs this time. There is a risk they might catch fire and be hard to put out...
The anti-EV hysteria from the right is so bad as to actually be funny.
Are you seriously comparing an easily-extinguished car fire on the hard shoulder to a car parked in a multi-storey carpark which autonomously combusts (if this is what happened) with up to 1500 other cars and maybe dozens of people present?
Those who are reacting by calling it a right wing plot or similar are not recognising that incidents like this create regulation which in turn protects the public from danger
It is why I referred to the 1979 Woolworths fire which led to the Furniture and Furnishings Fire Safety Regulation of 1988
This is not political, but is an example of how we should learn from serious incidents and improve for the benefit of all
Your attempt to downplay a fire of this magnitude is surprising in view of your fire service but what if this fire had taken lives
It is not 'just a car fire' anymore than Woolworths fire was just a fire in a furniture shop
And please do not patronise me
But lots of houses have internal garages (albeit probably too small these days for the Morningside/Mayfair Sturmmannschaftkraftwagens anyway). And I've never heard of insurers complaining about cars parked in them. Perhaps the spare petrol can is more of a risk.
https://www.thenational.scot/news/18908231.police-investigate-car-deliberately-torched-outside-home-labour-msp/0 -
I was envisaging a somewhat wider effort.Leon said:Luckyguy1983 said:
I don't see this issue as really worthy of discussion - all discussing it seems to do is bring a little of the misery and conflict and intractability of the situation into PB. They've been at it for decades; leave them to it. Perhaps when they realise they're not getting any attention, they will stop.Leon said:
@Anabobazina was talking about PB. He wants us to stop talking about Gaza/israel because it upsets him. Or if we do talk about it we can only do it in very general ways or he gets tearfulBig_G_NorthWales said:
I wasn't talking about PB but Sky and BBCLeon said:
How many children are “watching PB”?!Big_G_NorthWales said:
We don't agree often but on this I certainly doAnabobazina said:Is there somewhere else PBers can post links/descriptions of murdered women and children? Call me a lily-livered shill if you will , but I find I can be aware of what’s happening without hearing of the detail.
TIA.
I listened to ITV report of the massacre at the Kfar Aza kibbutz and literally wept
I could not relate it to my wife, and whilst we need responsible reporting the tendency to upset is a concern not least for the number of children who may be watching
It’s fairly ridiculous. Every news and social media is discussing it in depth. Yes it is hard and distressing. But it is the news
I picture them now in Hamas HQ, southern Gaza
Jihadi 1: Sir, I have terrible news
Hamas commander: Allah preserve us, the Occupiers have finally invaded?
Jihadi 1: No, sir, even worse
Hamas commander: you don’t mean…
Jihadi 1: Aiwa. Yes. They’ve stopped talking about us on Mike Smithson’s politicalbetting.com after complaints from @anabobazina
Hamas commander: and the Welsh guy? Large G? What did he say??
Jihadi 1: Big G sir. He agreed with @Anabobazina and now many of our best militants are in despair
Hamas commander falls silent. The guns outside fade into quiet. Slowly he crumples the map on his desk. End0 -
.
I've detailed above about putting out EV fires. They're a normal car pretty much until the batteries get involved. Then it's showtime, but it's very rare and I never went to one.theProle said:
There are some fun EV specific issues with putting fires out, which are still fairly new and novel. The vast amounts of water required and the potential for re-ignition are quite a headache in situations were solutions and protocols have been designed around dealing with ICE fires.twistedfirestopper3 said:
Will it eck lead to looking at putting out fires. Who's going to spend money on that? We already know how to put fires out. It's just a car fire in a car park. Happens every day. The Luton one was just a bit bigger. You need to calm down, old fella.Big_G_NorthWales said:
This fire, whether an ICE vehicle or an EV started it, will lead to an enquiry which will look at all aspects of the consequences including the different fire fighting capabilities to extinguish an ICE car fire from an EV one and to the safety of serious car fires in confined car parksStocky said:
Did you have concerns about this before EVs were invented?Mexicanpete said:
I quite regularly see ICE cars merrily burning away on the hard should because a failed fuel hose pumps benzene all over the hot manifold. E10 bio-ethanol rich petrol eats non compatible (older and generally ULEZ non compliant) vehicle fuel lines. Best to ban all petrol cars and vans I guess.RochdalePioneers said:
The car park fire in Liverpool in 2018 destroyed a whole car park full of cars. Started by an LPG vehicle, once temperatures got high enough the fire spread from car to car, with one igniting every 30 seconds at the worst and rivers of flaming fuel spreading the conflagration even further.Nigelb said:
And what implications if it was a petrol engined car ?Big_G_NorthWales said:
I haven't heard anyone suggest evs be banned, and may I say a rather extreme response to an incident that could have implications for evs and how to ensure safety is addressed and even regulated effectivelyRochdalePioneers said:The Luton airport fire demonstrates just how dangerous EVs are. Normal petrol and diesel cars do not have anything flammable - no tanks full of explosive liquids - and so are immune to fire.
Time to Ban EVs. For the children.
So yes. I can understand why the blame is being put on EVs this time. There is a risk they might catch fire and be hard to put out...
The anti-EV hysteria from the right is so bad as to actually be funny.
Are you seriously comparing an easily-extinguished car fire on the hard shoulder to a car parked in a multi-storey carpark which autonomously combusts (if this is what happened) with up to 1500 other cars and maybe dozens of people present?
Those who are reacting by calling it a right wing plot or similar are not recognising that incidents like this create regulation which in turn protects the public from danger
It is why I referred to the 1979 Woolworths fire which led to the Furniture and Furnishings Fire Safety Regulation of 1988
This is not political, but is an example of how we should learn from serious incidents and improve for the benefit of all
I've a friend who does a lot of technical work on lithium ion battery fires. From talking to him, although he's always a bit cagey, I get the impression that a lot of technical people would like to ban EVs from high risk environments such as ferries, but there is massive political pressure not to do so. The politicans fear such a ban would kill EV adoption stone dead because the public would wrongly perceive them as dangerous fire hazards.
I think his private view is that at some point there will be a major catastrophe which kills a literal boatload of people, after which "lessons will be learned".0 -
How is a major catastrophe on a ferry due to a fire among petrol/diesel cars prevented?theProle said:
There are some fun EV specific issues with putting fires out, which are still fairly new and novel. The vast amounts of water required and the potential for re-ignition are quite a headache in situations were solutions and protocols have been designed around dealing with ICE fires.twistedfirestopper3 said:
Will it eck lead to looking at putting out fires. Who's going to spend money on that? We already know how to put fires out. It's just a car fire in a car park. Happens every day. The Luton one was just a bit bigger. You need to calm down, old fella.Big_G_NorthWales said:
This fire, whether an ICE vehicle or an EV started it, will lead to an enquiry which will look at all aspects of the consequences including the different fire fighting capabilities to extinguish an ICE car fire from an EV one and to the safety of serious car fires in confined car parksStocky said:
Did you have concerns about this before EVs were invented?Mexicanpete said:
I quite regularly see ICE cars merrily burning away on the hard should because a failed fuel hose pumps benzene all over the hot manifold. E10 bio-ethanol rich petrol eats non compatible (older and generally ULEZ non compliant) vehicle fuel lines. Best to ban all petrol cars and vans I guess.RochdalePioneers said:
The car park fire in Liverpool in 2018 destroyed a whole car park full of cars. Started by an LPG vehicle, once temperatures got high enough the fire spread from car to car, with one igniting every 30 seconds at the worst and rivers of flaming fuel spreading the conflagration even further.Nigelb said:
And what implications if it was a petrol engined car ?Big_G_NorthWales said:
I haven't heard anyone suggest evs be banned, and may I say a rather extreme response to an incident that could have implications for evs and how to ensure safety is addressed and even regulated effectivelyRochdalePioneers said:The Luton airport fire demonstrates just how dangerous EVs are. Normal petrol and diesel cars do not have anything flammable - no tanks full of explosive liquids - and so are immune to fire.
Time to Ban EVs. For the children.
So yes. I can understand why the blame is being put on EVs this time. There is a risk they might catch fire and be hard to put out...
The anti-EV hysteria from the right is so bad as to actually be funny.
Are you seriously comparing an easily-extinguished car fire on the hard shoulder to a car parked in a multi-storey carpark which autonomously combusts (if this is what happened) with up to 1500 other cars and maybe dozens of people present?
Those who are reacting by calling it a right wing plot or similar are not recognising that incidents like this create regulation which in turn protects the public from danger
It is why I referred to the 1979 Woolworths fire which led to the Furniture and Furnishings Fire Safety Regulation of 1988
This is not political, but is an example of how we should learn from serious incidents and improve for the benefit of all
I've a friend who does a lot of technical work on lithium ion battery fires. From talking to him, although he's always a bit cagey, I get the impression that a lot of technical people would like to ban EVs from high risk environments such as ferries, but there is massive political pressure not to do so. The politicans fear such a ban would kill EV adoption stone dead because the public would wrongly perceive them as dangerous fire hazards.
I think his private view is that at some point there will be a major catastrophe which kills a literal boatload of people, after which "lessons will be learned".0 -
If Range Rovers are going up, our street is a high-risk environment.RochdalePioneers said:So it's not political?
Compare https://twitter.com/rec777777/status/1711995499585171789
So was that another EV fire which just couldn't be extinguished and destroyed the multi storey car park at Luton Airport?
How much longer are people like
@Keir_Starmer
going to try and force us into this Net Zero madness?
And https://twitter.com/SeanSeankennedy/status/1712000869405692376
What’s the chances of the Luton Airport fire being started by an EV I’m going very high
@Conservatives @SadiqKhan @AutoPap
Contrast https://twitter.com/LordCxsh/status/1712007637112344967
"The start of the fire at Luton airport. Started from a Range Rover yesterday evening." - a DIESEL Range Rover
Mouth-foaming right-wing morons.0 -
Yeah, that wasn't glitter.Luckyguy1983 said:
Gosh, I had no idea someone pulled the invader off. Glad we didn't see that in the pictures.TheScreamingEagles said:Meanwhile - and you knew this was coming - in the conspiracy gallery 😷, they are convinced yesterday's protest was staged.
The evidence for this?
"Note that it was women who pulled the 'invader' off." 👀~AA
https://twitter.com/BestForBritain/status/1712034457547366457/photo/11 -
I didn't 'loudly demand' anything, I merely made a polite request. Clearly you aren't going to stop posting the stuff, so I'll now politely withdraw.Leon said:
Learn to scroll. Its not hardAnabobazina said:
I don't get tearful. I just find it ruins PB for me, which I chiefly visit for a) entertainment b) debate and c) betting tips, in that order. Maybe some PBers like this stuff – but in that case they are very different animals to me.Leon said:
@Anabobazina was talking about PB. He wants us to stop talking about Gaza/israel because it upsets him. Or if we do talk about it we can only do it in very general ways or he gets tearfulBig_G_NorthWales said:
I wasn't talking about PB but Sky and BBCLeon said:
How many children are “watching PB”?!Big_G_NorthWales said:
We don't agree often but on this I certainly doAnabobazina said:Is there somewhere else PBers can post links/descriptions of murdered women and children? Call me a lily-livered shill if you will , but I find I can be aware of what’s happening without hearing of the detail.
TIA.
I listened to ITV report of the massacre at the Kfar Aza kibbutz and literally wept
I could not relate it to my wife, and whilst we need responsible reporting the tendency to upset is a concern not least for the number of children who may be watching
It’s fairly ridiculous. Every news and social media is discussing it in depth. Yes it is hard and distressing. But it is the news
Example. I am finding this debate about the relative combustibility of electric vehicles monumentally dull and nerdish. If I had to read all the comments I would weep, like you
But I don’t. As soon as it becomes clear that this is the subject of the comment I scroll and move on. It can be done
I don’t loudly demand that people stop talking about it. Each to their own0 -
.
Yup. Electrical faults mostly but also leaking fuel and oil on to hot surfaces, hot brakes, dodgy cables in 12v sockets.Stocky said:
A question: in your expertise have you known a petrol or diesel car to autonomously combust after being left parked a while? I'm trying to understand how common this scenario is and balance against the number of cars on the road. I've never heard of this happening but you are the guy to ask.twistedfirestopper3 said:
Fella, it's a car fire in a car park. No one died. No great legislation will come out of it. Cars parked next to each other in a multi storey structure are going to burn in the event one of them goes up. No new firefighting techniques will come out of it, but "lessons will be learned" around the lack of sprinklers. Get over it.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I was actually involved in the legislation following the Woolworths fire and it was a defining moment in fire safety for modern upholstered furnituretwistedfirestopper3 said:
Will it eck lead to looking at putting out fires. Who's going to spend money on that? We already know how to put fires out. It's just a car fire in a car park. Happens every day. The Luton one was just a bit bigger. You need to calm down, old fella.Big_G_NorthWales said:
This fire, whether an ICE vehicle or an EV started it, will lead to an enquiry which will look at all aspects of the consequences including the different fire fighting capabilities to extinguish an ICE car fire from an EV one and to the safety of serious car fires in confined car parksStocky said:
Did you have concerns about this before EVs were invented?Mexicanpete said:
I quite regularly see ICE cars merrily burning away on the hard should because a failed fuel hose pumps benzene all over the hot manifold. E10 bio-ethanol rich petrol eats non compatible (older and generally ULEZ non compliant) vehicle fuel lines. Best to ban all petrol cars and vans I guess.RochdalePioneers said:
The car park fire in Liverpool in 2018 destroyed a whole car park full of cars. Started by an LPG vehicle, once temperatures got high enough the fire spread from car to car, with one igniting every 30 seconds at the worst and rivers of flaming fuel spreading the conflagration even further.Nigelb said:
And what implications if it was a petrol engined car ?Big_G_NorthWales said:
I haven't heard anyone suggest evs be banned, and may I say a rather extreme response to an incident that could have implications for evs and how to ensure safety is addressed and even regulated effectivelyRochdalePioneers said:The Luton airport fire demonstrates just how dangerous EVs are. Normal petrol and diesel cars do not have anything flammable - no tanks full of explosive liquids - and so are immune to fire.
Time to Ban EVs. For the children.
So yes. I can understand why the blame is being put on EVs this time. There is a risk they might catch fire and be hard to put out...
The anti-EV hysteria from the right is so bad as to actually be funny.
Are you seriously comparing an easily-extinguished car fire on the hard shoulder to a car parked in a multi-storey carpark which autonomously combusts (if this is what happened) with up to 1500 other cars and maybe dozens of people present?
Those who are reacting by calling it a right wing plot or similar are not recognising that incidents like this create regulation which in turn protects the public from danger
It is why I referred to the 1979 Woolworths fire which led to the Furniture and Furnishings Fire Safety Regulation of 1988
This is not political, but is an example of how we should learn from serious incidents and improve for the benefit of all
Your attempt to downplay a fire of this magnitude is surprising in view of your fire service but what if this fire had taken lives
It is not 'just a car fire' anymore than Woolworths fire was just a fire in a furniture shop
And please do not patronise me1 -
A good question.LostPassword said:
How is a major catastrophe on a ferry due to a fire among petrol/diesel cars prevented?theProle said:
There are some fun EV specific issues with putting fires out, which are still fairly new and novel. The vast amounts of water required and the potential for re-ignition are quite a headache in situations were solutions and protocols have been designed around dealing with ICE fires.twistedfirestopper3 said:
Will it eck lead to looking at putting out fires. Who's going to spend money on that? We already know how to put fires out. It's just a car fire in a car park. Happens every day. The Luton one was just a bit bigger. You need to calm down, old fella.Big_G_NorthWales said:
This fire, whether an ICE vehicle or an EV started it, will lead to an enquiry which will look at all aspects of the consequences including the different fire fighting capabilities to extinguish an ICE car fire from an EV one and to the safety of serious car fires in confined car parksStocky said:
Did you have concerns about this before EVs were invented?Mexicanpete said:
I quite regularly see ICE cars merrily burning away on the hard should because a failed fuel hose pumps benzene all over the hot manifold. E10 bio-ethanol rich petrol eats non compatible (older and generally ULEZ non compliant) vehicle fuel lines. Best to ban all petrol cars and vans I guess.RochdalePioneers said:
The car park fire in Liverpool in 2018 destroyed a whole car park full of cars. Started by an LPG vehicle, once temperatures got high enough the fire spread from car to car, with one igniting every 30 seconds at the worst and rivers of flaming fuel spreading the conflagration even further.Nigelb said:
And what implications if it was a petrol engined car ?Big_G_NorthWales said:
I haven't heard anyone suggest evs be banned, and may I say a rather extreme response to an incident that could have implications for evs and how to ensure safety is addressed and even regulated effectivelyRochdalePioneers said:The Luton airport fire demonstrates just how dangerous EVs are. Normal petrol and diesel cars do not have anything flammable - no tanks full of explosive liquids - and so are immune to fire.
Time to Ban EVs. For the children.
So yes. I can understand why the blame is being put on EVs this time. There is a risk they might catch fire and be hard to put out...
The anti-EV hysteria from the right is so bad as to actually be funny.
Are you seriously comparing an easily-extinguished car fire on the hard shoulder to a car parked in a multi-storey carpark which autonomously combusts (if this is what happened) with up to 1500 other cars and maybe dozens of people present?
Those who are reacting by calling it a right wing plot or similar are not recognising that incidents like this create regulation which in turn protects the public from danger
It is why I referred to the 1979 Woolworths fire which led to the Furniture and Furnishings Fire Safety Regulation of 1988
This is not political, but is an example of how we should learn from serious incidents and improve for the benefit of all
I've a friend who does a lot of technical work on lithium ion battery fires. From talking to him, although he's always a bit cagey, I get the impression that a lot of technical people would like to ban EVs from high risk environments such as ferries, but there is massive political pressure not to do so. The politicans fear such a ban would kill EV adoption stone dead because the public would wrongly perceive them as dangerous fire hazards.
I think his private view is that at some point there will be a major catastrophe which kills a literal boatload of people, after which "lessons will be learned".
Especially as if one uses sprinklers, and leaves them running for a long time and there isn't efficient scupperage or drainage pumps, you get lots of free surface water, which in quantity is a Very Bad Thing in a ro-ro vehicle deck.1 -
The Israel/Palestine situation is (and has been for decades) one of the most important geopolitical dynamics on the planet. It is the home of proxy wars between the Cold War belligerents, and now fulfils a similar purpose, bringing in the Sunni/Shia conflict also. Everyone from Biden to SKS to Hamza Yusuf is engaged.Anabobazina said:
I don't get tearful. I just find it ruins PB for me, which I chiefly visit for a) entertainment b) debate and c) betting tips, in that order. Maybe some PBers like this stuff – but in that case they are very different animals to me.Leon said:
@Anabobazina was talking about PB. He wants us to stop talking about Gaza/israel because it upsets him. Or if we do talk about it we can only do it in very general ways or he gets tearfulBig_G_NorthWales said:
I wasn't talking about PB but Sky and BBCLeon said:
How many children are “watching PB”?!Big_G_NorthWales said:
We don't agree often but on this I certainly doAnabobazina said:Is there somewhere else PBers can post links/descriptions of murdered women and children? Call me a lily-livered shill if you will , but I find I can be aware of what’s happening without hearing of the detail.
TIA.
I listened to ITV report of the massacre at the Kfar Aza kibbutz and literally wept
I could not relate it to my wife, and whilst we need responsible reporting the tendency to upset is a concern not least for the number of children who may be watching
It’s fairly ridiculous. Every news and social media is discussing it in depth. Yes it is hard and distressing. But it is the news
When there are flashpoints as occurred over the weekend of course we are going to discuss it at length.
I took a break from the subject yesterday as I felt PB was becoming a bit CiF-ish but it is a critically important topic nevertheless. As for the "graphic descriptions" - violence is a tool of conflict and is being used consciously by Hamas wantonly killing festival-goers and perhaps whole families, and by Israel as it levels parts of Gaza.
Hence we discuss it.0 -
Sure - very rare - but it may be very rare while the percentage of cars which are EVs is low. When mass adoption happens will this still be very rare? I'm trying to understand the additional fire risk that EVs entail particularly when parked.twistedfirestopper3 said:.
I've detailed above about putting out EV fires. They're a normal car pretty much until the batteries get involved. Then it's showtime, but it's very rare and I never went to one.theProle said:
There are some fun EV specific issues with putting fires out, which are still fairly new and novel. The vast amounts of water required and the potential for re-ignition are quite a headache in situations were solutions and protocols have been designed around dealing with ICE fires.twistedfirestopper3 said:
Will it eck lead to looking at putting out fires. Who's going to spend money on that? We already know how to put fires out. It's just a car fire in a car park. Happens every day. The Luton one was just a bit bigger. You need to calm down, old fella.Big_G_NorthWales said:
This fire, whether an ICE vehicle or an EV started it, will lead to an enquiry which will look at all aspects of the consequences including the different fire fighting capabilities to extinguish an ICE car fire from an EV one and to the safety of serious car fires in confined car parksStocky said:
Did you have concerns about this before EVs were invented?Mexicanpete said:
I quite regularly see ICE cars merrily burning away on the hard should because a failed fuel hose pumps benzene all over the hot manifold. E10 bio-ethanol rich petrol eats non compatible (older and generally ULEZ non compliant) vehicle fuel lines. Best to ban all petrol cars and vans I guess.RochdalePioneers said:
The car park fire in Liverpool in 2018 destroyed a whole car park full of cars. Started by an LPG vehicle, once temperatures got high enough the fire spread from car to car, with one igniting every 30 seconds at the worst and rivers of flaming fuel spreading the conflagration even further.Nigelb said:
And what implications if it was a petrol engined car ?Big_G_NorthWales said:
I haven't heard anyone suggest evs be banned, and may I say a rather extreme response to an incident that could have implications for evs and how to ensure safety is addressed and even regulated effectivelyRochdalePioneers said:The Luton airport fire demonstrates just how dangerous EVs are. Normal petrol and diesel cars do not have anything flammable - no tanks full of explosive liquids - and so are immune to fire.
Time to Ban EVs. For the children.
So yes. I can understand why the blame is being put on EVs this time. There is a risk they might catch fire and be hard to put out...
The anti-EV hysteria from the right is so bad as to actually be funny.
Are you seriously comparing an easily-extinguished car fire on the hard shoulder to a car parked in a multi-storey carpark which autonomously combusts (if this is what happened) with up to 1500 other cars and maybe dozens of people present?
Those who are reacting by calling it a right wing plot or similar are not recognising that incidents like this create regulation which in turn protects the public from danger
It is why I referred to the 1979 Woolworths fire which led to the Furniture and Furnishings Fire Safety Regulation of 1988
This is not political, but is an example of how we should learn from serious incidents and improve for the benefit of all
I've a friend who does a lot of technical work on lithium ion battery fires. From talking to him, although he's always a bit cagey, I get the impression that a lot of technical people would like to ban EVs from high risk environments such as ferries, but there is massive political pressure not to do so. The politicans fear such a ban would kill EV adoption stone dead because the public would wrongly perceive them as dangerous fire hazards.
I think his private view is that at some point there will be a major catastrophe which kills a literal boatload of people, after which "lessons will be learned".0 -
Oh do chill out.Anabobazina said:
I didn't 'loudly demand' anything, I merely made a polite request. Clearly you aren't going to stop posting the stuff, so I'll now politely withdraw.Leon said:
Learn to scroll. Its not hardAnabobazina said:
I don't get tearful. I just find it ruins PB for me, which I chiefly visit for a) entertainment b) debate and c) betting tips, in that order. Maybe some PBers like this stuff – but in that case they are very different animals to me.Leon said:
@Anabobazina was talking about PB. He wants us to stop talking about Gaza/israel because it upsets him. Or if we do talk about it we can only do it in very general ways or he gets tearfulBig_G_NorthWales said:
I wasn't talking about PB but Sky and BBCLeon said:
How many children are “watching PB”?!Big_G_NorthWales said:
We don't agree often but on this I certainly doAnabobazina said:Is there somewhere else PBers can post links/descriptions of murdered women and children? Call me a lily-livered shill if you will , but I find I can be aware of what’s happening without hearing of the detail.
TIA.
I listened to ITV report of the massacre at the Kfar Aza kibbutz and literally wept
I could not relate it to my wife, and whilst we need responsible reporting the tendency to upset is a concern not least for the number of children who may be watching
It’s fairly ridiculous. Every news and social media is discussing it in depth. Yes it is hard and distressing. But it is the news
Example. I am finding this debate about the relative combustibility of electric vehicles monumentally dull and nerdish. If I had to read all the comments I would weep, like you
But I don’t. As soon as it becomes clear that this is the subject of the comment I scroll and move on. It can be done
I don’t loudly demand that people stop talking about it. Each to their own
I tell you what - serious offer - in future I will put WAR COMMENT on top of any comment about the war. Will that do? I mean, I think it’s kinda dumb, but if you or others genuinely get upset by mere words then you will be pre warned and you can scroll?
I really can’t do much more than that
0 -
Small photos is perhaps full quota, so it thumbnails them.Leon said:In non war news, what the feck is wrong with Vanilla?
It now has multiple issues. Photos are nearly always tiny to the point of invisibility. But not always? It sometimes makes me sign in and out, constantly
And the quoting problems are ridiculous. Sometimes it mangles hour old comments and shoves them in an entirely new comment. Why?
It’s becoming frustratingly difficult to use. I blame Elon Musk0 -
I didn't ask you to stop posting comments about the war. I ask you (and others) whether they'd consider giving over with the detailed rolling updates of mutilated and murdered women and children. They have refused to, which is their right, of course. Don't shoot me merely for asking.Leon said:
Oh do chill out.Anabobazina said:
I didn't 'loudly demand' anything, I merely made a polite request. Clearly you aren't going to stop posting the stuff, so I'll now politely withdraw.Leon said:
Learn to scroll. Its not hardAnabobazina said:
I don't get tearful. I just find it ruins PB for me, which I chiefly visit for a) entertainment b) debate and c) betting tips, in that order. Maybe some PBers like this stuff – but in that case they are very different animals to me.Leon said:
@Anabobazina was talking about PB. He wants us to stop talking about Gaza/israel because it upsets him. Or if we do talk about it we can only do it in very general ways or he gets tearfulBig_G_NorthWales said:
I wasn't talking about PB but Sky and BBCLeon said:
How many children are “watching PB”?!Big_G_NorthWales said:
We don't agree often but on this I certainly doAnabobazina said:Is there somewhere else PBers can post links/descriptions of murdered women and children? Call me a lily-livered shill if you will , but I find I can be aware of what’s happening without hearing of the detail.
TIA.
I listened to ITV report of the massacre at the Kfar Aza kibbutz and literally wept
I could not relate it to my wife, and whilst we need responsible reporting the tendency to upset is a concern not least for the number of children who may be watching
It’s fairly ridiculous. Every news and social media is discussing it in depth. Yes it is hard and distressing. But it is the news
Example. I am finding this debate about the relative combustibility of electric vehicles monumentally dull and nerdish. If I had to read all the comments I would weep, like you
But I don’t. As soon as it becomes clear that this is the subject of the comment I scroll and move on. It can be done
I don’t loudly demand that people stop talking about it. Each to their own
I tell you what - serious offer - in future I will put WAR COMMENT on top of any comment about the war. Will that do? I mean, I think it’s kinda dumb, but if you or others genuinely get upset by mere words then you will be pre warned and you can scroll?
I really can’t do much more than that1 -
The take I am hearing from security people is that there will probably be some concern within the Hamas leadership that the operation was so "successful". It is unlikely that they had expected to find the area so poorly defended and have more hostages than they wanted, while triggering a bigger Israeli response than they intended. I have yet to hear any speculation on their likely views on PB.com coverage although no doubt like David Cameron they are avid readers of the site, with a special interest in the EV debate, HS2, luxury vacations and English planning law.Leon said:Luckyguy1983 said:
I don't see this issue as really worthy of discussion - all discussing it seems to do is bring a little of the misery and conflict and intractability of the situation into PB. They've been at it for decades; leave them to it. Perhaps when they realise they're not getting any attention, they will stop.Leon said:
@Anabobazina was talking about PB. He wants us to stop talking about Gaza/israel because it upsets him. Or if we do talk about it we can only do it in very general ways or he gets tearfulBig_G_NorthWales said:
I wasn't talking about PB but Sky and BBCLeon said:
How many children are “watching PB”?!Big_G_NorthWales said:
We don't agree often but on this I certainly doAnabobazina said:Is there somewhere else PBers can post links/descriptions of murdered women and children? Call me a lily-livered shill if you will , but I find I can be aware of what’s happening without hearing of the detail.
TIA.
I listened to ITV report of the massacre at the Kfar Aza kibbutz and literally wept
I could not relate it to my wife, and whilst we need responsible reporting the tendency to upset is a concern not least for the number of children who may be watching
It’s fairly ridiculous. Every news and social media is discussing it in depth. Yes it is hard and distressing. But it is the news
I picture them now in Hamas HQ, southern Gaza
Jihadi 1: Sir, I have terrible news
Hamas commander: Allah preserve us, the Occupiers have finally invaded?
Jihadi 1: No, sir, even worse
Hamas commander: you don’t mean…
Jihadi 1: Aiwa. Yes. They’ve stopped talking about us on Mike Smithson’s politicalbetting.com after complaints from @anabobazina
Hamas commander: and the Welsh guy? Large G? What did he say??
Jihadi 1: Big G sir. He agreed with @Anabobazina and now many of our best militants are in despair
Hamas commander falls silent. The guns outside fade into quiet. Slowly he crumples the map on his desk. End0 -
PARTY POLITICS COMMENT
Wes Streeting is a class act. Great speaker and media performer.2 -
.
I can't answer that question, just that I've not heard from any of my colleagues that EVs are a particular problem. Any car well involved in fire is going to spread to combustible material near it. I've been to house fires caused by ICE cars parked on drives.Stocky said:
Sure - very rare - but it may be very rare while the percentage of cars which are EVs is low. When mass adoption happens will this still be very rare? I'm trying to understand the additional fire risk that EVs entail particularly when parked.twistedfirestopper3 said:.
I've detailed above about putting out EV fires. They're a normal car pretty much until the batteries get involved. Then it's showtime, but it's very rare and I never went to one.theProle said:
There are some fun EV specific issues with putting fires out, which are still fairly new and novel. The vast amounts of water required and the potential for re-ignition are quite a headache in situations were solutions and protocols have been designed around dealing with ICE fires.twistedfirestopper3 said:
Will it eck lead to looking at putting out fires. Who's going to spend money on that? We already know how to put fires out. It's just a car fire in a car park. Happens every day. The Luton one was just a bit bigger. You need to calm down, old fella.Big_G_NorthWales said:
This fire, whether an ICE vehicle or an EV started it, will lead to an enquiry which will look at all aspects of the consequences including the different fire fighting capabilities to extinguish an ICE car fire from an EV one and to the safety of serious car fires in confined car parksStocky said:
Did you have concerns about this before EVs were invented?Mexicanpete said:
I quite regularly see ICE cars merrily burning away on the hard should because a failed fuel hose pumps benzene all over the hot manifold. E10 bio-ethanol rich petrol eats non compatible (older and generally ULEZ non compliant) vehicle fuel lines. Best to ban all petrol cars and vans I guess.RochdalePioneers said:
The car park fire in Liverpool in 2018 destroyed a whole car park full of cars. Started by an LPG vehicle, once temperatures got high enough the fire spread from car to car, with one igniting every 30 seconds at the worst and rivers of flaming fuel spreading the conflagration even further.Nigelb said:
And what implications if it was a petrol engined car ?Big_G_NorthWales said:
I haven't heard anyone suggest evs be banned, and may I say a rather extreme response to an incident that could have implications for evs and how to ensure safety is addressed and even regulated effectivelyRochdalePioneers said:The Luton airport fire demonstrates just how dangerous EVs are. Normal petrol and diesel cars do not have anything flammable - no tanks full of explosive liquids - and so are immune to fire.
Time to Ban EVs. For the children.
So yes. I can understand why the blame is being put on EVs this time. There is a risk they might catch fire and be hard to put out...
The anti-EV hysteria from the right is so bad as to actually be funny.
Are you seriously comparing an easily-extinguished car fire on the hard shoulder to a car parked in a multi-storey carpark which autonomously combusts (if this is what happened) with up to 1500 other cars and maybe dozens of people present?
Those who are reacting by calling it a right wing plot or similar are not recognising that incidents like this create regulation which in turn protects the public from danger
It is why I referred to the 1979 Woolworths fire which led to the Furniture and Furnishings Fire Safety Regulation of 1988
This is not political, but is an example of how we should learn from serious incidents and improve for the benefit of all
I've a friend who does a lot of technical work on lithium ion battery fires. From talking to him, although he's always a bit cagey, I get the impression that a lot of technical people would like to ban EVs from high risk environments such as ferries, but there is massive political pressure not to do so. The politicans fear such a ban would kill EV adoption stone dead because the public would wrongly perceive them as dangerous fire hazards.
I think his private view is that at some point there will be a major catastrophe which kills a literal boatload of people, after which "lessons will be learned".1 -
Cycle lanes. Don't forget cycle lanes.OnlyLivingBoy said:
The take I am hearing from security people is that there will probably be some concern within the Hamas leadership that the operation was so "successful". It is unlikely that they had expected to find the area so poorly defended and have more hostages than they wanted, while triggering a bigger Israeli response than they intended. I have yet to hear any speculation on their likely views on PB.com coverage although no doubt like David Cameron they are avid readers of the site, with a special interest in the EV debate, HS2, luxury vacations and English planning law.Leon said:Luckyguy1983 said:
I don't see this issue as really worthy of discussion - all discussing it seems to do is bring a little of the misery and conflict and intractability of the situation into PB. They've been at it for decades; leave them to it. Perhaps when they realise they're not getting any attention, they will stop.Leon said:
@Anabobazina was talking about PB. He wants us to stop talking about Gaza/israel because it upsets him. Or if we do talk about it we can only do it in very general ways or he gets tearfulBig_G_NorthWales said:
I wasn't talking about PB but Sky and BBCLeon said:
How many children are “watching PB”?!Big_G_NorthWales said:
We don't agree often but on this I certainly doAnabobazina said:Is there somewhere else PBers can post links/descriptions of murdered women and children? Call me a lily-livered shill if you will , but I find I can be aware of what’s happening without hearing of the detail.
TIA.
I listened to ITV report of the massacre at the Kfar Aza kibbutz and literally wept
I could not relate it to my wife, and whilst we need responsible reporting the tendency to upset is a concern not least for the number of children who may be watching
It’s fairly ridiculous. Every news and social media is discussing it in depth. Yes it is hard and distressing. But it is the news
I picture them now in Hamas HQ, southern Gaza
Jihadi 1: Sir, I have terrible news
Hamas commander: Allah preserve us, the Occupiers have finally invaded?
Jihadi 1: No, sir, even worse
Hamas commander: you don’t mean…
Jihadi 1: Aiwa. Yes. They’ve stopped talking about us on Mike Smithson’s politicalbetting.com after complaints from @anabobazina
Hamas commander: and the Welsh guy? Large G? What did he say??
Jihadi 1: Big G sir. He agreed with @Anabobazina and now many of our best militants are in despair
Hamas commander falls silent. The guns outside fade into quiet. Slowly he crumples the map on his desk. End1 -
We like to think we're high brow on here, but let's face it - we're as smutty as Benny Hill....Stocky said:
To late - Mr Monkey beat you (!) to itTaz said:
"Pulled the invader off" -TheScreamingEagles said:Meanwhile - and you knew this was coming - in the conspiracy gallery 😷, they are convinced yesterday's protest was staged.
The evidence for this?
"Note that it was women who pulled the 'invader' off." 👀~AA
https://twitter.com/BestForBritain/status/1712034457547366457/photo/11 -
There is potentially a mix up to the Brenda on the Street of mixing up Wes Streeting and Gary Streeter. To one's advantage and the other's disadvantage.Anabobazina said:PARTY POLITICS COMMENT
Wes Streeting is a class act. Great speaker and media performer.2 -
I would expect them to use mist systems in such an environment (also available for homes) which reduce the amount of water by something like 80%, compared to sprinklers.Carnyx said:
A good question.LostPassword said:
How is a major catastrophe on a ferry due to a fire among petrol/diesel cars prevented?theProle said:
There are some fun EV specific issues with putting fires out, which are still fairly new and novel. The vast amounts of water required and the potential for re-ignition are quite a headache in situations were solutions and protocols have been designed around dealing with ICE fires.twistedfirestopper3 said:
Will it eck lead to looking at putting out fires. Who's going to spend money on that? We already know how to put fires out. It's just a car fire in a car park. Happens every day. The Luton one was just a bit bigger. You need to calm down, old fella.Big_G_NorthWales said:
This fire, whether an ICE vehicle or an EV started it, will lead to an enquiry which will look at all aspects of the consequences including the different fire fighting capabilities to extinguish an ICE car fire from an EV one and to the safety of serious car fires in confined car parksStocky said:
Did you have concerns about this before EVs were invented?Mexicanpete said:
I quite regularly see ICE cars merrily burning away on the hard should because a failed fuel hose pumps benzene all over the hot manifold. E10 bio-ethanol rich petrol eats non compatible (older and generally ULEZ non compliant) vehicle fuel lines. Best to ban all petrol cars and vans I guess.RochdalePioneers said:
The car park fire in Liverpool in 2018 destroyed a whole car park full of cars. Started by an LPG vehicle, once temperatures got high enough the fire spread from car to car, with one igniting every 30 seconds at the worst and rivers of flaming fuel spreading the conflagration even further.Nigelb said:
And what implications if it was a petrol engined car ?Big_G_NorthWales said:
I haven't heard anyone suggest evs be banned, and may I say a rather extreme response to an incident that could have implications for evs and how to ensure safety is addressed and even regulated effectivelyRochdalePioneers said:The Luton airport fire demonstrates just how dangerous EVs are. Normal petrol and diesel cars do not have anything flammable - no tanks full of explosive liquids - and so are immune to fire.
Time to Ban EVs. For the children.
So yes. I can understand why the blame is being put on EVs this time. There is a risk they might catch fire and be hard to put out...
The anti-EV hysteria from the right is so bad as to actually be funny.
Are you seriously comparing an easily-extinguished car fire on the hard shoulder to a car parked in a multi-storey carpark which autonomously combusts (if this is what happened) with up to 1500 other cars and maybe dozens of people present?
Those who are reacting by calling it a right wing plot or similar are not recognising that incidents like this create regulation which in turn protects the public from danger
It is why I referred to the 1979 Woolworths fire which led to the Furniture and Furnishings Fire Safety Regulation of 1988
This is not political, but is an example of how we should learn from serious incidents and improve for the benefit of all
I've a friend who does a lot of technical work on lithium ion battery fires. From talking to him, although he's always a bit cagey, I get the impression that a lot of technical people would like to ban EVs from high risk environments such as ferries, but there is massive political pressure not to do so. The politicans fear such a ban would kill EV adoption stone dead because the public would wrongly perceive them as dangerous fire hazards.
I think his private view is that at some point there will be a major catastrophe which kills a literal boatload of people, after which "lessons will be learned".
Especially as if one uses sprinklers, and leaves them running for a long time and there isn't efficient scupperage or drainage pumps, you get lots of free surface water, which in quantity is a Very Bad Thing in a ro-ro vehicle deck.1 -
https://youtu.be/mNxKdb8DWm0?si=Uiy8LwwU1oRokyLVTheScreamingEagles said:
Wait until they realise the virgins are male.turbotubbs said:
I imagine the ones they are getting now are the older models - the ones who kept themselves for the "right" man, but never found them, and died aged 80 or so.SandyRentool said:
They'll be running out of virgins in paradise.Leon said:
And they are about to lose all the restEabhal said:
One thing I've learnt this attack is how important scale is for terrorist attacks.Leon said:Turns out there was another brutal massacre on October 7. Kibbutz Be’eri. 100 dead minimum: same procedure - kill every Jew they could, no matter what age
There is one video which just shows the bloody aftermath. A river of blood. I shan’t link
One of the many chilling aspects of these crimes is the way they offer a glimpse of what a brutal pogrom must have been like, or indeed one of the “relatively minor” but hideous atrocities of the Holocaust
In particular I’m reminded of this: the Kovno garage massacre. Click at your discretion
https://rarehistoricalphotos.com/kovno-garage-massacre-lithuania-1941/
In one respect, it's a huge failure for Hamas. 1:1 victims:terrorists must make it the least efficient attack in history. And they've lost all of their best fighters.
Not the virgins these chaps are expecting...0 -
Khamenei tweeting in Hebrew: “The defeat of Saturday October 7 cannot be recovered from. You brought this calamity upon yourselves.”
https://x.com/khamenei_ir/status/17117932542434756520 -
Google it?Stocky said:
Sure - very rare - but it may be very rare while the percentage of cars which are EVs is low. When mass adoption happens will this still be very rare? I'm trying to understand the additional fire risk that EVs entail particularly when parked.twistedfirestopper3 said:.
I've detailed above about putting out EV fires. They're a normal car pretty much until the batteries get involved. Then it's showtime, but it's very rare and I never went to one.theProle said:
There are some fun EV specific issues with putting fires out, which are still fairly new and novel. The vast amounts of water required and the potential for re-ignition are quite a headache in situations were solutions and protocols have been designed around dealing with ICE fires.twistedfirestopper3 said:
Will it eck lead to looking at putting out fires. Who's going to spend money on that? We already know how to put fires out. It's just a car fire in a car park. Happens every day. The Luton one was just a bit bigger. You need to calm down, old fella.Big_G_NorthWales said:
This fire, whether an ICE vehicle or an EV started it, will lead to an enquiry which will look at all aspects of the consequences including the different fire fighting capabilities to extinguish an ICE car fire from an EV one and to the safety of serious car fires in confined car parksStocky said:
Did you have concerns about this before EVs were invented?Mexicanpete said:
I quite regularly see ICE cars merrily burning away on the hard should because a failed fuel hose pumps benzene all over the hot manifold. E10 bio-ethanol rich petrol eats non compatible (older and generally ULEZ non compliant) vehicle fuel lines. Best to ban all petrol cars and vans I guess.RochdalePioneers said:
The car park fire in Liverpool in 2018 destroyed a whole car park full of cars. Started by an LPG vehicle, once temperatures got high enough the fire spread from car to car, with one igniting every 30 seconds at the worst and rivers of flaming fuel spreading the conflagration even further.Nigelb said:
And what implications if it was a petrol engined car ?Big_G_NorthWales said:
I haven't heard anyone suggest evs be banned, and may I say a rather extreme response to an incident that could have implications for evs and how to ensure safety is addressed and even regulated effectivelyRochdalePioneers said:The Luton airport fire demonstrates just how dangerous EVs are. Normal petrol and diesel cars do not have anything flammable - no tanks full of explosive liquids - and so are immune to fire.
Time to Ban EVs. For the children.
So yes. I can understand why the blame is being put on EVs this time. There is a risk they might catch fire and be hard to put out...
The anti-EV hysteria from the right is so bad as to actually be funny.
Are you seriously comparing an easily-extinguished car fire on the hard shoulder to a car parked in a multi-storey carpark which autonomously combusts (if this is what happened) with up to 1500 other cars and maybe dozens of people present?
Those who are reacting by calling it a right wing plot or similar are not recognising that incidents like this create regulation which in turn protects the public from danger
It is why I referred to the 1979 Woolworths fire which led to the Furniture and Furnishings Fire Safety Regulation of 1988
This is not political, but is an example of how we should learn from serious incidents and improve for the benefit of all
I've a friend who does a lot of technical work on lithium ion battery fires. From talking to him, although he's always a bit cagey, I get the impression that a lot of technical people would like to ban EVs from high risk environments such as ferries, but there is massive political pressure not to do so. The politicans fear such a ban would kill EV adoption stone dead because the public would wrongly perceive them as dangerous fire hazards.
I think his private view is that at some point there will be a major catastrophe which kills a literal boatload of people, after which "lessons will be learned".
“ There were 1529.9 fires per 100k for gas vehicles and just 25.1 fires per 100k sales for electric vehicles.”
https://www.autoweek.com/news/a38225037/how-much-you-should-worry-about-ev-fires/2 -
At least attempt to the get Humza Yousaf's name right.TOPPING said:
The Israel/Palestine situation is (and has been for decades) one of the most important geopolitical dynamics on the planet. It is the home of proxy wars between the Cold War belligerents, and now fulfils a similar purpose, bringing in the Sunni/Shia conflict also. Everyone from Biden to SKS to Hamza Yusuf is engaged.Anabobazina said:
I don't get tearful. I just find it ruins PB for me, which I chiefly visit for a) entertainment b) debate and c) betting tips, in that order. Maybe some PBers like this stuff – but in that case they are very different animals to me.Leon said:
@Anabobazina was talking about PB. He wants us to stop talking about Gaza/israel because it upsets him. Or if we do talk about it we can only do it in very general ways or he gets tearfulBig_G_NorthWales said:
I wasn't talking about PB but Sky and BBCLeon said:
How many children are “watching PB”?!Big_G_NorthWales said:
We don't agree often but on this I certainly doAnabobazina said:Is there somewhere else PBers can post links/descriptions of murdered women and children? Call me a lily-livered shill if you will , but I find I can be aware of what’s happening without hearing of the detail.
TIA.
I listened to ITV report of the massacre at the Kfar Aza kibbutz and literally wept
I could not relate it to my wife, and whilst we need responsible reporting the tendency to upset is a concern not least for the number of children who may be watching
It’s fairly ridiculous. Every news and social media is discussing it in depth. Yes it is hard and distressing. But it is the news
When there are flashpoints as occurred over the weekend of course we are going to discuss it at length.
I took a break from the subject yesterday as I felt PB was becoming a bit CiF-ish but it is a critically important topic nevertheless. As for the "graphic descriptions" - violence is a tool of conflict and is being used consciously by Hamas wantonly killing festival-goers and perhaps whole families, and by Israel as it levels parts of Gaza.
Hence we discuss it.
0 -
I wonder if they are already posting here?OnlyLivingBoy said:
The take I am hearing from security people is that there will probably be some concern within the Hamas leadership that the operation was so "successful". It is unlikely that they had expected to find the area so poorly defended and have more hostages than they wanted, while triggering a bigger Israeli response than they intended. I have yet to hear any speculation on their likely views on PB.com coverage although no doubt like David Cameron they are avid readers of the site, with a special interest in the EV debate, HS2, luxury vacations and English planning law.Leon said:Luckyguy1983 said:
I don't see this issue as really worthy of discussion - all discussing it seems to do is bring a little of the misery and conflict and intractability of the situation into PB. They've been at it for decades; leave them to it. Perhaps when they realise they're not getting any attention, they will stop.Leon said:
@Anabobazina was talking about PB. He wants us to stop talking about Gaza/israel because it upsets him. Or if we do talk about it we can only do it in very general ways or he gets tearfulBig_G_NorthWales said:
I wasn't talking about PB but Sky and BBCLeon said:
How many children are “watching PB”?!Big_G_NorthWales said:
We don't agree often but on this I certainly doAnabobazina said:Is there somewhere else PBers can post links/descriptions of murdered women and children? Call me a lily-livered shill if you will , but I find I can be aware of what’s happening without hearing of the detail.
TIA.
I listened to ITV report of the massacre at the Kfar Aza kibbutz and literally wept
I could not relate it to my wife, and whilst we need responsible reporting the tendency to upset is a concern not least for the number of children who may be watching
It’s fairly ridiculous. Every news and social media is discussing it in depth. Yes it is hard and distressing. But it is the news
I picture them now in Hamas HQ, southern Gaza
Jihadi 1: Sir, I have terrible news
Hamas commander: Allah preserve us, the Occupiers have finally invaded?
Jihadi 1: No, sir, even worse
Hamas commander: you don’t mean…
Jihadi 1: Aiwa. Yes. They’ve stopped talking about us on Mike Smithson’s politicalbetting.com after complaints from @anabobazina
Hamas commander: and the Welsh guy? Large G? What did he say??
Jihadi 1: Big G sir. He agreed with @Anabobazina and now many of our best militants are in despair
Hamas commander falls silent. The guns outside fade into quiet. Slowly he crumples the map on his desk. End
If I had to label one commenter as a likely top level Hamas commander it would be @kle4
Always so reasonable and even handed. No one can be that reasonable. Dead giveaway. He's in deep cover and he's reporting back to base in Gaza City, and I suspect that even now he's planning an overnight break out online and, unprovoked, is going to attack @CarlottaVance3 -
Given the extraordinary risk posed by EVs, the government should introduce emergency legislation to impose 20mph limits in all urban areas until they are made safe.
Thanks to BigG for bringing this to our attention.5 -
Why?Eabhal said:
At least attempt to the get Humza Yousaf's name right.TOPPING said:
The Israel/Palestine situation is (and has been for decades) one of the most important geopolitical dynamics on the planet. It is the home of proxy wars between the Cold War belligerents, and now fulfils a similar purpose, bringing in the Sunni/Shia conflict also. Everyone from Biden to SKS to Hamza Yusuf is engaged.Anabobazina said:
I don't get tearful. I just find it ruins PB for me, which I chiefly visit for a) entertainment b) debate and c) betting tips, in that order. Maybe some PBers like this stuff – but in that case they are very different animals to me.Leon said:
@Anabobazina was talking about PB. He wants us to stop talking about Gaza/israel because it upsets him. Or if we do talk about it we can only do it in very general ways or he gets tearfulBig_G_NorthWales said:
I wasn't talking about PB but Sky and BBCLeon said:
How many children are “watching PB”?!Big_G_NorthWales said:
We don't agree often but on this I certainly doAnabobazina said:Is there somewhere else PBers can post links/descriptions of murdered women and children? Call me a lily-livered shill if you will , but I find I can be aware of what’s happening without hearing of the detail.
TIA.
I listened to ITV report of the massacre at the Kfar Aza kibbutz and literally wept
I could not relate it to my wife, and whilst we need responsible reporting the tendency to upset is a concern not least for the number of children who may be watching
It’s fairly ridiculous. Every news and social media is discussing it in depth. Yes it is hard and distressing. But it is the news
When there are flashpoints as occurred over the weekend of course we are going to discuss it at length.
I took a break from the subject yesterday as I felt PB was becoming a bit CiF-ish but it is a critically important topic nevertheless. As for the "graphic descriptions" - violence is a tool of conflict and is being used consciously by Hamas wantonly killing festival-goers and perhaps whole families, and by Israel as it levels parts of Gaza.
Hence we discuss it.0 -
What does "full quota" mean?MattW said:
Small photos is perhaps full quota, so it thumbnails them.Leon said:In non war news, what the feck is wrong with Vanilla?
It now has multiple issues. Photos are nearly always tiny to the point of invisibility. But not always? It sometimes makes me sign in and out, constantly
And the quoting problems are ridiculous. Sometimes it mangles hour old comments and shoves them in an entirely new comment. Why?
It’s becoming frustratingly difficult to use. I blame Elon Musk0 -
Hmm cycle lanes - an intractable zero sum conflict over space in which both sides fight with religious fervour, bringing out the worst in each other, while there is no solution in sight, only interminable and increasingly angry fighting... I imagine they might want a break from all that.TOPPING said:
Cycle lanes. Don't forget cycle lanes.OnlyLivingBoy said:
The take I am hearing from security people is that there will probably be some concern within the Hamas leadership that the operation was so "successful". It is unlikely that they had expected to find the area so poorly defended and have more hostages than they wanted, while triggering a bigger Israeli response than they intended. I have yet to hear any speculation on their likely views on PB.com coverage although no doubt like David Cameron they are avid readers of the site, with a special interest in the EV debate, HS2, luxury vacations and English planning law.Leon said:Luckyguy1983 said:
I don't see this issue as really worthy of discussion - all discussing it seems to do is bring a little of the misery and conflict and intractability of the situation into PB. They've been at it for decades; leave them to it. Perhaps when they realise they're not getting any attention, they will stop.Leon said:
@Anabobazina was talking about PB. He wants us to stop talking about Gaza/israel because it upsets him. Or if we do talk about it we can only do it in very general ways or he gets tearfulBig_G_NorthWales said:
I wasn't talking about PB but Sky and BBCLeon said:
How many children are “watching PB”?!Big_G_NorthWales said:
We don't agree often but on this I certainly doAnabobazina said:Is there somewhere else PBers can post links/descriptions of murdered women and children? Call me a lily-livered shill if you will , but I find I can be aware of what’s happening without hearing of the detail.
TIA.
I listened to ITV report of the massacre at the Kfar Aza kibbutz and literally wept
I could not relate it to my wife, and whilst we need responsible reporting the tendency to upset is a concern not least for the number of children who may be watching
It’s fairly ridiculous. Every news and social media is discussing it in depth. Yes it is hard and distressing. But it is the news
I picture them now in Hamas HQ, southern Gaza
Jihadi 1: Sir, I have terrible news
Hamas commander: Allah preserve us, the Occupiers have finally invaded?
Jihadi 1: No, sir, even worse
Hamas commander: you don’t mean…
Jihadi 1: Aiwa. Yes. They’ve stopped talking about us on Mike Smithson’s politicalbetting.com after complaints from @anabobazina
Hamas commander: and the Welsh guy? Large G? What did he say??
Jihadi 1: Big G sir. He agreed with @Anabobazina and now many of our best militants are in despair
Hamas commander falls silent. The guns outside fade into quiet. Slowly he crumples the map on his desk. End2 -
Beta male baboons, deprived of sex by the alpha males.CatMan said:
https://youtu.be/mNxKdb8DWm0?si=Uiy8LwwU1oRokyLVTheScreamingEagles said:
Wait until they realise the virgins are male.turbotubbs said:
I imagine the ones they are getting now are the older models - the ones who kept themselves for the "right" man, but never found them, and died aged 80 or so.SandyRentool said:
They'll be running out of virgins in paradise.Leon said:
And they are about to lose all the restEabhal said:
One thing I've learnt this attack is how important scale is for terrorist attacks.Leon said:Turns out there was another brutal massacre on October 7. Kibbutz Be’eri. 100 dead minimum: same procedure - kill every Jew they could, no matter what age
There is one video which just shows the bloody aftermath. A river of blood. I shan’t link
One of the many chilling aspects of these crimes is the way they offer a glimpse of what a brutal pogrom must have been like, or indeed one of the “relatively minor” but hideous atrocities of the Holocaust
In particular I’m reminded of this: the Kovno garage massacre. Click at your discretion
https://rarehistoricalphotos.com/kovno-garage-massacre-lithuania-1941/
In one respect, it's a huge failure for Hamas. 1:1 victims:terrorists must make it the least efficient attack in history. And they've lost all of their best fighters.
Not the virgins these chaps are expecting...0 -
Unlike a lot of politicians, Streeting is properly funny. Pugnatious, charming, quick on his feet, too. Could well be leader one day.Anabobazina said:PARTY POLITICS COMMENT
Wes Streeting is a class act. Great speaker and media performer.3 -
…
It is thoughLuckyguy1983 said:
'Spreadsheet Phil' was a boring Chancellor - he was also one of the worst ever. Theresa May was a boring PM - she was also one of the worst ever. Lack of charisma should not be confused with capability.Richard_Tyndall said:
Yes but campaigning is about getting the job. What kinabalu is talking about is actually doing the job.isam said:
It’s an asset in campaigning to be relatively charismatic. It probably helps in negotiating too. Obviously you are trivialising it as “a bit of a giggle” to downplay it as your man doesn’t have much charisma; luckily enough, neither does his opponent now, so that weakness is nullified.kinabalu said:Is it really so important that our leading politicians are a bit of a giggle? It's not what I look for, I must admit, but perhaps I'm an outlier.
Can we really say that the most charismatic PMs of the last 70 years have been the best? Even someone like Thatcher was not exactly the life and soul of the party.
I think the country is ready for boring for a while. Whether they are ready for Labour policies is another matter but we will just have to see how that goes and hope for the best.1 -
WAR COMMENTTOPPING said:
The Israel/Palestine situation is (and has been for decades) one of the most important geopolitical dynamics on the planet. It is the home of proxy wars between the Cold War belligerents, and now fulfils a similar purpose, bringing in the Sunni/Shia conflict also. Everyone from Biden to SKS to Hamza Yusuf is engaged.Anabobazina said:
I don't get tearful. I just find it ruins PB for me, which I chiefly visit for a) entertainment b) debate and c) betting tips, in that order. Maybe some PBers like this stuff – but in that case they are very different animals to me.Leon said:
@Anabobazina was talking about PB. He wants us to stop talking about Gaza/israel because it upsets him. Or if we do talk about it we can only do it in very general ways or he gets tearfulBig_G_NorthWales said:
I wasn't talking about PB but Sky and BBCLeon said:
How many children are “watching PB”?!Big_G_NorthWales said:
We don't agree often but on this I certainly doAnabobazina said:Is there somewhere else PBers can post links/descriptions of murdered women and children? Call me a lily-livered shill if you will , but I find I can be aware of what’s happening without hearing of the detail.
TIA.
I listened to ITV report of the massacre at the Kfar Aza kibbutz and literally wept
I could not relate it to my wife, and whilst we need responsible reporting the tendency to upset is a concern not least for the number of children who may be watching
It’s fairly ridiculous. Every news and social media is discussing it in depth. Yes it is hard and distressing. But it is the news
When there are flashpoints as occurred over the weekend of course we are going to discuss it at length.
I took a break from the subject yesterday as I felt PB was becoming a bit CiF-ish but it is a critically important topic nevertheless. As for the "graphic descriptions" - violence is a tool of conflict and is being used consciously by Hamas wantonly killing festival-goers and perhaps whole families, and by Israel as it levels parts of Gaza.
Hence we discuss it.
Not only that, the Arab Israeli conflict has now entered an entirely new phase. This isn't, despite comments here, the same old same old. Israel has been attacked in a form it has not known for 50 years or more. More Israelis/Jews have died in a single day than at any point since the Holocaust. In the next days weeks months, it is possible we will see some final resolution of this issue, and maybe in the most horrible way - and this is in part because of the hideous violence witnessed these last days
It is ALSO quite possible this will lead to a wider war in the region, involving Iran, which could in turn engulf the world
So I suggest it is worth talking about, almost as much as the low-medium risk of fires in airport car parks from unstable electric vehicles0 -
‘It has since come to my attention’
I wonder (not really) if this unconditional retraction and apology is off her own bat or was induced by a letter?
0 -
Perhaps, and I know this is an outlandish scheme but hear me out, they could operate it as a venue where people can come and buy a selection of ales and other beverages, as well as light snacks, for consumption on the premises?viewcode said:
It's closed. The owners don't know what to do with it.SirNorfolkPassmore said:Time for a quick half at the Eagle & Child?
https://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/23619982.exciting-changes-move-closer-oxford-eagle-child-pub/3 -
Has some aggressive tweets in his early history that effectively rule him out.OnlyLivingBoy said:
Unlike a lot of politicians, Streeting is properly funny. Pugnatious, charming, quick on his feet, too. Could well be leader one day.Anabobazina said:PARTY POLITICS COMMENT
Wes Streeting is a class act. Great speaker and media performer.1 -
'Boring but Stable' reminds me of Theresa May between Cameron's departure and the 2017 election.
May's premature apotheosis was quite extraordinary. One evening as I recall the Number 10 spin team shut up shop for the night - let the Labour party destroy itself, we'll enjoy the show, seemed to be the attitude. In retrospect this seems supremely hubristic as she then went on nearly to lose to Jeremy Corbyn and from that moment her power immediately drained away.
I am taking for granted at this point that Starmer will be Prime Minister after the next election, but it is impossible to tell when the bubble bursts. I presume that his relative popularity will last longer than Theresa May's did. Nevertheless, there are two types of politician: those who are helpless prisoners of events, and those who mistakenly believe they are not helpless prisoners of events.0 -
This where PB is good. It's taken 5 minutes for someone to Google the stats and a retired firefighter to thoroughly debunk yet another anti-woke scare story.Malmesbury said:
Google it?Stocky said:
Sure - very rare - but it may be very rare while the percentage of cars which are EVs is low. When mass adoption happens will this still be very rare? I'm trying to understand the additional fire risk that EVs entail particularly when parked.twistedfirestopper3 said:.
I've detailed above about putting out EV fires. They're a normal car pretty much until the batteries get involved. Then it's showtime, but it's very rare and I never went to one.theProle said:
There are some fun EV specific issues with putting fires out, which are still fairly new and novel. The vast amounts of water required and the potential for re-ignition are quite a headache in situations were solutions and protocols have been designed around dealing with ICE fires.twistedfirestopper3 said:
Will it eck lead to looking at putting out fires. Who's going to spend money on that? We already know how to put fires out. It's just a car fire in a car park. Happens every day. The Luton one was just a bit bigger. You need to calm down, old fella.Big_G_NorthWales said:
This fire, whether an ICE vehicle or an EV started it, will lead to an enquiry which will look at all aspects of the consequences including the different fire fighting capabilities to extinguish an ICE car fire from an EV one and to the safety of serious car fires in confined car parksStocky said:
Did you have concerns about this before EVs were invented?Mexicanpete said:
I quite regularly see ICE cars merrily burning away on the hard should because a failed fuel hose pumps benzene all over the hot manifold. E10 bio-ethanol rich petrol eats non compatible (older and generally ULEZ non compliant) vehicle fuel lines. Best to ban all petrol cars and vans I guess.RochdalePioneers said:
The car park fire in Liverpool in 2018 destroyed a whole car park full of cars. Started by an LPG vehicle, once temperatures got high enough the fire spread from car to car, with one igniting every 30 seconds at the worst and rivers of flaming fuel spreading the conflagration even further.Nigelb said:
And what implications if it was a petrol engined car ?Big_G_NorthWales said:
I haven't heard anyone suggest evs be banned, and may I say a rather extreme response to an incident that could have implications for evs and how to ensure safety is addressed and even regulated effectivelyRochdalePioneers said:The Luton airport fire demonstrates just how dangerous EVs are. Normal petrol and diesel cars do not have anything flammable - no tanks full of explosive liquids - and so are immune to fire.
Time to Ban EVs. For the children.
So yes. I can understand why the blame is being put on EVs this time. There is a risk they might catch fire and be hard to put out...
The anti-EV hysteria from the right is so bad as to actually be funny.
Are you seriously comparing an easily-extinguished car fire on the hard shoulder to a car parked in a multi-storey carpark which autonomously combusts (if this is what happened) with up to 1500 other cars and maybe dozens of people present?
Those who are reacting by calling it a right wing plot or similar are not recognising that incidents like this create regulation which in turn protects the public from danger
It is why I referred to the 1979 Woolworths fire which led to the Furniture and Furnishings Fire Safety Regulation of 1988
This is not political, but is an example of how we should learn from serious incidents and improve for the benefit of all
I've a friend who does a lot of technical work on lithium ion battery fires. From talking to him, although he's always a bit cagey, I get the impression that a lot of technical people would like to ban EVs from high risk environments such as ferries, but there is massive political pressure not to do so. The politicans fear such a ban would kill EV adoption stone dead because the public would wrongly perceive them as dangerous fire hazards.
I think his private view is that at some point there will be a major catastrophe which kills a literal boatload of people, after which "lessons will be learned".
“ There were 1529.9 fires per 100k for gas vehicles and just 25.1 fires per 100k sales for electric vehicles.”
https://www.autoweek.com/news/a38225037/how-much-you-should-worry-about-ev-fires/1 -
Angela Rayner "Hold my cig...."OnlyLivingBoy said:
Unlike a lot of politicians, Streeting is properly funny. Pugnatious, charming, quick on his feet, too. Could well be leader one day.Anabobazina said:PARTY POLITICS COMMENT
Wes Streeting is a class act. Great speaker and media performer.0 -
If you want a laugh (or a cry), have a look at the Socialist Worker website.0
-
Am intriguedd as to how it may have been possible to damage his reputation.Theuniondivvie said:‘It has since come to my attention’
I wonder (not really) if this unconditional retraction and apology is off her own bat or was induced by a letter?1 -
You're quie right. I have over 30 close relatives there and the only way I knew they were OK wihout calling my sister was because I knew they wouldn' have been at a rave. Neiher would hey have been in he army. Then yesterday I heard one was a soldier who was missing. Its very complicaed and while Israel have Fascists in heir government -one as minister of homeland securiy -talking abou arociies in graphic deail is jus prurien....Anabobazina said:
I didn't ask you to stop posting comments about the war. I ask you (and others) whether they'd consider giving over with the detailed rolling updates of mutilated and murdered women and children. They have refused to, which is their right, of course. Don't shoot me merely for asking.Leon said:
Oh do chill out.Anabobazina said:
I didn't 'loudly demand' anything, I merely made a polite request. Clearly you aren't going to stop posting the stuff, so I'll now politely withdraw.Leon said:
Learn to scroll. Its not hardAnabobazina said:
I don't get tearful. I just find it ruins PB for me, which I chiefly visit for a) entertainment b) debate and c) betting tips, in that order. Maybe some PBers like this stuff – but in that case they are very different animals to me.Leon said:
@Anabobazina was talking about PB. He wants us to stop talking about Gaza/israel because it upsets him. Or if we do talk about it we can only do it in very general ways or he gets tearfulBig_G_NorthWales said:
I wasn't talking about PB but Sky and BBCLeon said:
How many children are “watching PB”?!Big_G_NorthWales said:
We don't agree often but on this I certainly doAnabobazina said:Is there somewhere else PBers can post links/descriptions of murdered women and children? Call me a lily-livered shill if you will , but I find I can be aware of what’s happening without hearing of the detail.
TIA.
I listened to ITV report of the massacre at the Kfar Aza kibbutz and literally wept
I could not relate it to my wife, and whilst we need responsible reporting the tendency to upset is a concern not least for the number of children who may be watching
It’s fairly ridiculous. Every news and social media is discussing it in depth. Yes it is hard and distressing. But it is the news
Example. I am finding this debate about the relative combustibility of electric vehicles monumentally dull and nerdish. If I had to read all the comments I would weep, like you
But I don’t. As soon as it becomes clear that this is the subject of the comment I scroll and move on. It can be done
I don’t loudly demand that people stop talking about it. Each to their own
I tell you what - serious offer - in future I will put WAR COMMENT on top of any comment about the war. Will that do? I mean, I think it’s kinda dumb, but if you or others genuinely get upset by mere words then you will be pre warned and you can scroll?
I really can’t do much more than that
I'm missing a leer on my keyboard. Sorry0 -
It's a lot easier to cross St Giles these days, too. Hardly any traffic at all. The B&B must have lost a few regulars in the past crossing six lanes of speeding 'motorists'. In Oxford the war against cars has been fought and won.SirNorfolkPassmore said:
Perhaps, and I know this is an outlandish scheme but hear me out, they could operate it as a venue where people can come and buy a selection of ales and other beverages, as well as light snacks, for consumption on the premises?viewcode said:
It's closed. The owners don't know what to do with it.SirNorfolkPassmore said:Time for a quick half at the Eagle & Child?
https://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/23619982.exciting-changes-move-closer-oxford-eagle-child-pub/2 -
I'm sorry, but lolRoger said:
You're quie right. I have over 30 close relatives there and the only way I knew they were OK wihout calling my sister was because I knew they wouldn' have been at a rave. Neiher would hey have been in he army. Then yesterday I heard one was a soldier who was missing. Its very complicaed and while Israel have Fascists in heir government -one as minister of homeland securiy -talking abou arociies in graphic deail is jus prurien....Anabobazina said:
I didn't ask you to stop posting comments about the war. I ask you (and others) whether they'd consider giving over with the detailed rolling updates of mutilated and murdered women and children. They have refused to, which is their right, of course. Don't shoot me merely for asking.Leon said:
Oh do chill out.Anabobazina said:
I didn't 'loudly demand' anything, I merely made a polite request. Clearly you aren't going to stop posting the stuff, so I'll now politely withdraw.Leon said:
Learn to scroll. Its not hardAnabobazina said:
I don't get tearful. I just find it ruins PB for me, which I chiefly visit for a) entertainment b) debate and c) betting tips, in that order. Maybe some PBers like this stuff – but in that case they are very different animals to me.Leon said:
@Anabobazina was talking about PB. He wants us to stop talking about Gaza/israel because it upsets him. Or if we do talk about it we can only do it in very general ways or he gets tearfulBig_G_NorthWales said:
I wasn't talking about PB but Sky and BBCLeon said:
How many children are “watching PB”?!Big_G_NorthWales said:
We don't agree often but on this I certainly doAnabobazina said:Is there somewhere else PBers can post links/descriptions of murdered women and children? Call me a lily-livered shill if you will , but I find I can be aware of what’s happening without hearing of the detail.
TIA.
I listened to ITV report of the massacre at the Kfar Aza kibbutz and literally wept
I could not relate it to my wife, and whilst we need responsible reporting the tendency to upset is a concern not least for the number of children who may be watching
It’s fairly ridiculous. Every news and social media is discussing it in depth. Yes it is hard and distressing. But it is the news
Example. I am finding this debate about the relative combustibility of electric vehicles monumentally dull and nerdish. If I had to read all the comments I would weep, like you
But I don’t. As soon as it becomes clear that this is the subject of the comment I scroll and move on. It can be done
I don’t loudly demand that people stop talking about it. Each to their own
I tell you what - serious offer - in future I will put WAR COMMENT on top of any comment about the war. Will that do? I mean, I think it’s kinda dumb, but if you or others genuinely get upset by mere words then you will be pre warned and you can scroll?
I really can’t do much more than that
I'm missing a leer on my keyboard. Sorry4 -
There will likely be X amount of space allowed on the rented server for PB.COM. That is the 'quota', which has been filled by people like you and me posting piccies.Leon said:
What does "full quota" mean?MattW said:
Small photos is perhaps full quota, so it thumbnails them.Leon said:In non war news, what the feck is wrong with Vanilla?
It now has multiple issues. Photos are nearly always tiny to the point of invisibility. But not always? It sometimes makes me sign in and out, constantly
And the quoting problems are ridiculous. Sometimes it mangles hour old comments and shoves them in an entirely new comment. Why?
It’s becoming frustratingly difficult to use. I blame Elon Musk
When that space is full you delete some to free up space, or get more space, or make older pictures from years ago smaller. A coping measure is to shrink new pictures down by size into thumbnails,
Though sometimes there is no quota as part of the package.
3 -
And yet another (global geopolitical angle):Leon said:
WAR COMMENTTOPPING said:
The Israel/Palestine situation is (and has been for decades) one of the most important geopolitical dynamics on the planet. It is the home of proxy wars between the Cold War belligerents, and now fulfils a similar purpose, bringing in the Sunni/Shia conflict also. Everyone from Biden to SKS to Hamza Yusuf is engaged.Anabobazina said:
I don't get tearful. I just find it ruins PB for me, which I chiefly visit for a) entertainment b) debate and c) betting tips, in that order. Maybe some PBers like this stuff – but in that case they are very different animals to me.Leon said:
@Anabobazina was talking about PB. He wants us to stop talking about Gaza/israel because it upsets him. Or if we do talk about it we can only do it in very general ways or he gets tearfulBig_G_NorthWales said:
I wasn't talking about PB but Sky and BBCLeon said:
How many children are “watching PB”?!Big_G_NorthWales said:
We don't agree often but on this I certainly doAnabobazina said:Is there somewhere else PBers can post links/descriptions of murdered women and children? Call me a lily-livered shill if you will , but I find I can be aware of what’s happening without hearing of the detail.
TIA.
I listened to ITV report of the massacre at the Kfar Aza kibbutz and literally wept
I could not relate it to my wife, and whilst we need responsible reporting the tendency to upset is a concern not least for the number of children who may be watching
It’s fairly ridiculous. Every news and social media is discussing it in depth. Yes it is hard and distressing. But it is the news
When there are flashpoints as occurred over the weekend of course we are going to discuss it at length.
I took a break from the subject yesterday as I felt PB was becoming a bit CiF-ish but it is a critically important topic nevertheless. As for the "graphic descriptions" - violence is a tool of conflict and is being used consciously by Hamas wantonly killing festival-goers and perhaps whole families, and by Israel as it levels parts of Gaza.
Hence we discuss it.
Not only that, the Arab Israeli conflict has now entered an entirely new phase. This isn't, despite comments here, the same old same old. Israel has been attacked in a form it has not known for 50 years or more. More Israelis/Jews have died in a single day than at any point since the Holocaust. In the next days weeks months, it is possible we will see some final resolution of this issue, and maybe in the most horrible way - and this is in part because of the hideous violence witnessed these last days
It is ALSO quite possible this will lead to a wider war in the region, involving Iran, which could in turn engulf the world
So I suggest it is worth talking about, almost as much as the low-medium risk of fires in airport car parks from unstable electric vehicles
https://www.thefp.com/p/gaza-hostage-crisis-is-an-american-crisis0 -
Ah. Thanks. I imagined it was something like that but now I am fully apprisedMattW said:
There will likely be X amount of space allowed on the rented server for PB.COM. That is the 'quota', which has been filled by people like you and me posting piccies.Leon said:
What does "full quota" mean?MattW said:
Small photos is perhaps full quota, so it thumbnails them.Leon said:In non war news, what the feck is wrong with Vanilla?
It now has multiple issues. Photos are nearly always tiny to the point of invisibility. But not always? It sometimes makes me sign in and out, constantly
And the quoting problems are ridiculous. Sometimes it mangles hour old comments and shoves them in an entirely new comment. Why?
It’s becoming frustratingly difficult to use. I blame Elon Musk
When that space is full you delete some to free up space, or get more space, or make older pictures from years ago smaller. A coping measure is to shrink new pictures down by size into thumbnails,
Though sometimes there is no quota as part of the package.
The thumbnailing is oddly random0 -
It was a diesel car that burned Luton to the ground. (LBC)1
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On the radio just now there was a headline news story about a parked diesel car causing a fire in a car park in Luton. Don’t know if this is important info for anyone here.
Anyway…1 -
HahahahaMexicanpete said:It was a diesel car that burned Luton to the ground. (LBC)
Wouldn't have happened with ULEZ5 -
@lizziedearden
🚨COMPLETELY NEW ARGUMENT KLAXON🚨
One of the asylum seeker claimants, ASM, is bringing a completely separate argument that the Rwanda deal is unlawful because the UK retained EU law making it unlawful to remove asylum seekers to a country they have no connection to
Supreme Court president Lord Reed kindly explains for those following the case that if the claimant is "right about this it’s a knock-out blow"
It "includes all cases in which a notice of intent [to send people to Rwanda] has already been served", which is tens of thousands
The issue now being considered is that EU law bans the removal of asylum seekers to countries where they have no previous connection. None of the claimants have a connection to Rwanda
The argument is that the relevant Procedures Directive has been retained in UK law since Brexit1 -
Yes, a few sources are reporting this. A relief in a way (kind of).Mexicanpete said:It was a diesel car that burned Luton to the ground. (LBC)
0 -
Diesel.Leon said:
WAR COMMENTTOPPING said:
The Israel/Palestine situation is (and has been for decades) one of the most important geopolitical dynamics on the planet. It is the home of proxy wars between the Cold War belligerents, and now fulfils a similar purpose, bringing in the Sunni/Shia conflict also. Everyone from Biden to SKS to Hamza Yusuf is engaged.Anabobazina said:
I don't get tearful. I just find it ruins PB for me, which I chiefly visit for a) entertainment b) debate and c) betting tips, in that order. Maybe some PBers like this stuff – but in that case they are very different animals to me.Leon said:
@Anabobazina was talking about PB. He wants us to stop talking about Gaza/israel because it upsets him. Or if we do talk about it we can only do it in very general ways or he gets tearfulBig_G_NorthWales said:
I wasn't talking about PB but Sky and BBCLeon said:
How many children are “watching PB”?!Big_G_NorthWales said:
We don't agree often but on this I certainly doAnabobazina said:Is there somewhere else PBers can post links/descriptions of murdered women and children? Call me a lily-livered shill if you will , but I find I can be aware of what’s happening without hearing of the detail.
TIA.
I listened to ITV report of the massacre at the Kfar Aza kibbutz and literally wept
I could not relate it to my wife, and whilst we need responsible reporting the tendency to upset is a concern not least for the number of children who may be watching
It’s fairly ridiculous. Every news and social media is discussing it in depth. Yes it is hard and distressing. But it is the news
When there are flashpoints as occurred over the weekend of course we are going to discuss it at length.
I took a break from the subject yesterday as I felt PB was becoming a bit CiF-ish but it is a critically important topic nevertheless. As for the "graphic descriptions" - violence is a tool of conflict and is being used consciously by Hamas wantonly killing festival-goers and perhaps whole families, and by Israel as it levels parts of Gaza.
Hence we discuss it.
Not only that, the Arab Israeli conflict has now entered an entirely new phase. This isn't, despite comments here, the same old same old. Israel has been attacked in a form it has not known for 50 years or more. More Israelis/Jews have died in a single day than at any point since the Holocaust. In the next days weeks months, it is possible we will see some final resolution of this issue, and maybe in the most horrible way - and this is in part because of the hideous violence witnessed these last days
It is ALSO quite possible this will lead to a wider war in the region, involving Iran, which could in turn engulf the world
So I suggest it is worth talking about, almost as much as the low-medium risk of fires in airport car parks from unstable electric vehicles1 -
My occasionally highlighting of dodgy vehicle sales on FB marketplace has broken big time (*sarcasm*), currently being discussed on R4’s You and Yours, thousands of scam listings apparently.
No doubt this news will cause a ripple throughout the Middle East.2 -
Imagine buying a Tesla and someone's old diesel turns it into a crisp.Stocky said:
Yes, a few sources are reporting this. A relief in a way (kind of).Mexicanpete said:It was a diesel car that burned Luton to the ground. (LBC)
1 -
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This is how they describe the events of 7th October.tlg86 said:If you want a laugh (or a cry), have a look at the Socialist Worker website.
"That was just as Hamas fighters were defeating their oppressors."
People often use violent rhetoric for emphasis, off-hand comments about who will be "first up against the wall". But I rather think there are quite a few who mean it literally within the SWP.0 -
.
But are they EVs?Theuniondivvie said:My occasionally highlighting of dodgy vehicle sales on FB marketplace has broken big time (*sarcasm*), currently being discussed on R4’s You and Yours, thousands of scam listings apparently.
No doubt this news will cause a ripple throughout the Middle East.0 -
If Cruella's Rwanda plan is ruled unlawful, can Richi sack her to show his strong man credentials, or does he have to keep her so she doesn't steal his lunch money?0
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Lizzie Dearden is very good. Great analysis.Scott_xP said:@lizziedearden
🚨COMPLETELY NEW ARGUMENT KLAXON🚨
One of the asylum seeker claimants, ASM, is bringing a completely separate argument that the Rwanda deal is unlawful because the UK retained EU law making it unlawful to remove asylum seekers to a country they have no connection to
Supreme Court president Lord Reed kindly explains for those following the case that if the claimant is "right about this it’s a knock-out blow"
It "includes all cases in which a notice of intent [to send people to Rwanda] has already been served", which is tens of thousands
The issue now being considered is that EU law bans the removal of asylum seekers to countries where they have no previous connection. None of the claimants have a connection to Rwanda
The argument is that the relevant Procedures Directive has been retained in UK law since Brexit0 -
RANDOM PERSONAL COMMENT ABOUT GOING TO MAKE SOME TEA
I'm just off to make some tea2 -
I think it is a pertinent point that twice in recent political history new PMs succeeding ‘charismatic’ old ones have tried to make a positive of their dull, dutiful manners. Both have had initial success in doing so, before taking a nosedive in popularity. I am of course referring to May and Gordon Brown.LDLF said:'Boring but Stable' reminds me of Theresa May between Cameron's departure and the 2017 election.
May's premature apotheosis was quite extraordinary. One evening as I recall the Number 10 spin team shut up shop for the night - let the Labour party destroy itself, we'll enjoy the show, seemed to be the attitude. In retrospect this seems supremely hubristic as she then went on nearly to lose to Jeremy Corbyn and from that moment her power immediately drained away.
I am taking for granted at this point that Starmer will be Prime Minister after the next election, but it is impossible to tell when the bubble bursts. I presume that his relative popularity will last longer than Theresa May's did. Nevertheless, there are two types of politician: those who are helpless prisoners of events, and those who mistakenly believe they are not helpless prisoners of events.
There is an argument that the public don’t really want a dull dutiful type in Number 10 but a charming charismatic figure who can convincingly tell them what they want to hear. To that end I do suspect that Starmer’s ‘dullness’ will eventually become a liability rather than an asset.
However I, like you, think he is likely to have a much longer honeymoon than Brown and May did. For one thing, he is coming in as the first PM of a new party in power, which Brown and May were not. Secondly, in replacing Sunak he is not replacing anyone with any tremendous political charisma/skill (Sunak has ‘it’ - superficially - but can’t land the delivery in the same way as Blair and Cameron could), so there is not an immediate comparison to make. Thirdly he is going to get the credit for pretty much anything that goes right in his first 2-3 years in power while he can blame bad news on the Tory hangover - this will sustain him.
I do not ascribe to the view of many on here that the wheels could fall off the Labour bandwagon very early on the basis that the situation they inherit is bad. People predicted that this would happen when the Tories took over from Brown, but Cameron proved remarkably resilient in office. I do think it’s plausible that Starmer fails to get a grip on the situation and eventually after 4 or 5 years loses a majority to a Tory Party who has somehow managed to get its act together. But we are now looking very far into the future and it is extremely uncertain.
1 -
The next act of thenumbertwelve said:I do think it’s plausible that Starmer fails to get a grip on the situation and eventually after 4 or 5 years loses a majority to a Tory Party who has somehow managed to get its act together. But we are now looking very far into the future and it is extremely uncertain.
UKIPTory Party is going to make Corbyn look like a missed opportunity...1 -
Loose-leaf or tea bag? Green or black? African or Indian? Milk and sugar?Leon said:RANDOM PERSONAL COMMENT ABOUT GOING TO MAKE SOME TEA
I'm just off to make some tea
Don't spare us the harrowing details. If you do put sugar in your tea, I think I can bear to hear about it.0 -
Take your time.Leon said:RANDOM PERSONAL COMMENT ABOUT GOING TO MAKE SOME TEA
I'm just off to make some tea1 -
I suspect you are right. Still, stranger things have happened.Scott_xP said:
The next act of thenumbertwelve said:I do think it’s plausible that Starmer fails to get a grip on the situation and eventually after 4 or 5 years loses a majority to a Tory Party who has somehow managed to get its act together. But we are now looking very far into the future and it is extremely uncertain.
UKIPTory Party is going to make Corbyn look like a missed opportunity...0
This discussion has been closed.