Turns out there was another brutal massacre on October 7. Kibbutz Be’eri. 100 dead minimum: same procedure - kill every Jew they could, no matter what age
There is one video which just shows the bloody aftermath. A river of blood. I shan’t link
One of the many chilling aspects of these crimes is the way they offer a glimpse of what a brutal pogrom must have been like, or indeed one of the “relatively minor” but hideous atrocities of the Holocaust
In particular I’m reminded of this: the Kovno garage massacre. Click at your discretion
One thing I've learnt this attack is how important scale is for terrorist attacks.
In one respect, it's a huge failure for Hamas. 1:1 victims:terrorists must make it the least efficient attack in history. And they've lost all of their best fighters.
Apparently the car park hasn’t been open long, and cost £20m to construct. Presumably that’s not coming from one poor sod’s car insurance, but will be the airport claiming on their own for the cost of cleaning up and rebuilding it - and maybe even the loss of revenue for several months while they do?
The airport is owned by Luton Borough Council - so if they can't claim insurance, the dividends will be lower for a while, and the council's finances may come under strain.
The Luton airport fire demonstrates just how dangerous EVs are. Normal petrol and diesel cars do not have anything flammable - no tanks full of explosive liquids - and so are immune to fire.
Time to Ban EVs. For the children.
I haven't heard anyone suggest evs be banned, and may I say a rather extreme response to an incident that could have implications for evs and how to ensure safety is addressed and even regulated effectively
And what implications if it was a petrol engined car ?
The car park fire in Liverpool in 2018 destroyed a whole car park full of cars. Started by an LPG vehicle, once temperatures got high enough the fire spread from car to car, with one igniting every 30 seconds at the worst and rivers of flaming fuel spreading the conflagration even further.
So yes. I can understand why the blame is being put on EVs this time. There is a risk they might catch fire and be hard to put out...
The anti-EV hysteria from the right is so bad as to actually be funny.
I quite regularly see ICE cars merrily burning away on the hard should because a failed fuel hose pumps benzene all over the hot manifold. E10 bio-ethanol rich petrol eats non compatible (older and generally ULEZ non compliant) vehicle fuel lines. Best to ban all petrol cars and vans I guess.
Did you have concerns about this before EVs were invented?
Are you seriously comparing an easily-extinguished car fire on the hard shoulder to a car parked in a multi-storey carpark which autonomously combusts (if this is what happened) with up to 1500 other cars and maybe dozens of people present?
This fire, whether an ICE vehicle or an EV started it, will lead to an enquiry which will look at all aspects of the consequences including the different fire fighting capabilities to extinguish an ICE car fire from an EV one and to the safety of serious car fires in confined car parks
Those who are reacting by calling it a right wing plot or similar are not recognising that incidents like this create regulation which in turn protects the public from danger
It is why I referred to the 1979 Woolworths fire which led to the Furniture and Furnishings Fire Safety Regulation of 1988
This is not political, but is an example of how we should learn from serious incidents and improve for the benefit of all
Will it eck lead to looking at putting out fires. Who's going to spend money on that? We already know how to put fires out. It's just a car fire in a car park. Happens every day. The Luton one was just a bit bigger. You need to calm down, old fella.
it was a defining moment in fire safety for modern upholstered furniture
The Luton airport fire demonstrates just how dangerous EVs are. Normal petrol and diesel cars do not have anything flammable - no tanks full of explosive liquids - and so are immune to fire.
Time to Ban EVs. For the children.
I haven't heard anyone suggest evs be banned, and may I say a rather extreme response to an incident that could have implications for evs and how to ensure safety is addressed and even regulated effectively
And what implications if it was a petrol engined car ?
The car park fire in Liverpool in 2018 destroyed a whole car park full of cars. Started by an LPG vehicle, once temperatures got high enough the fire spread from car to car, with one igniting every 30 seconds at the worst and rivers of flaming fuel spreading the conflagration even further.
So yes. I can understand why the blame is being put on EVs this time. There is a risk they might catch fire and be hard to put out...
The anti-EV hysteria from the right is so bad as to actually be funny.
I quite regularly see ICE cars merrily burning away on the hard should because a failed fuel hose pumps benzene all over the hot manifold. E10 bio-ethanol rich petrol eats non compatible (older and generally ULEZ non compliant) vehicle fuel lines. Best to ban all petrol cars and vans I guess.
Did you have concerns about this before EVs were invented?
Are you seriously comparing an easily-extinguished car fire on the hard shoulder to a car parked in a multi-storey carpark which autonomously combusts (if this is what happened) with up to 1500 other cars and maybe dozens of people present?
This fire, whether an ICE vehicle or an EV started it, will lead to an enquiry which will look at all aspects of the consequences including the different fire fighting capabilities to extinguish an ICE car fire from an EV one and to the safety of serious car fires in confined car parks
Those who are reacting by calling it a right wing plot or similar are not recognising that incidents like this create regulation which in turn protects the public from danger
It is why I referred to the 1979 Woolworths fire which led to the Furniture and Furnishings Fire Safety Regulation of 1988
This is not political, but is an example of how we should learn from serious incidents and improve for the benefit of all
Will it eck lead to looking at putting out fires. Who's going to spend money on that? We already know how to put fires out. It's just a car fire in a car park. Happens every day. The Luton one was just a bit bigger. You need to calm down, old fella.
I was actually involved in the legislation following the Woolworths fire and it was a defining moment in fire safety for modern upholstered furniture
Your attempt to downplay a fire of this magnitude is surprising in view of your fire service but what if this fire had taken lives
It is not 'just a car fire' anymore than Woolworths fire was just a fire in a furniture shop
And please do not patronise me
Fella, it's a car fire in a car park. No one died. No great legislation will come out of it. Cars parked next to each other in a multi storey structure are going to burn in the event one of them goes up. No new firefighting techniques will come out of it, but "lessons will be learned" around the lack of sprinklers. Get over it.
A question: in your expertise have you known a petrol or diesel car to autonomously combust after being left parked a while? I'm trying to understand how common this scenario is and balance against the number of cars on the road. I've never heard of this happening but you are the guy to ask.
Anyone know what is happening with Covid booster eligibility?
I thought you had to be over 65 and there is no private option but have seen this:
"There will be a Covid Vaccination clinic running at Tesco Car Park on Saturday 20th March between 12.30pm to 3.30pm. You, or anyone in your household over the age of 18 years, will be able to have your vaccine. There is no need to book an appointment, just turn up."
Is this just for those few who have had no vaccine at all or whether they are referring to boosters?
My GP has offered me one for around now, but I had one booster in August ahead of chemo - so I need to find out if it is a new variant.
Anyone know what is happening with Covid booster eligibility?
I thought you had to be over 65 and there is no private option but have seen this:
"There will be a Covid Vaccination clinic running at Tesco Car Park on Saturday 20th March between 12.30pm to 3.30pm. You, or anyone in your household over the age of 18 years, will be able to have your vaccine. There is no need to book an appointment, just turn up."
Is this just for those few who have had no vaccine at all or whether they are referring to boosters?
My GP has offered me one for around now, but I had one booster in August ahead of chemo - so I need to find out if it is a new variant.
Its not a new variant.
My wife and I had our covid vaccine last week and we were told it addressed the new variant
Ironically, I picked my daughter up from the Euston train yesterday and took her home, last night she phoned and said she had tested positive for covid having attended a conference in London over the weekend
I don't doubt what they said, but its a question of which new variant and what vaccine were you given.
There was a change of plan by the UKHSA to bring forward covid boosters in response to a new variant a few months ago, and that is what is meant by "addressing the new variant". However, the vaccines, while tweaked from the initial ones in 2020, have not been updated for this new variant, and indeed there is no need, as the existing protection offered is fine. Boosters do just what it says on the tin - it will give a short lived uptick in your antibodies to help against infection, but will subside over time. This is normal, and the timing of a booster (campaign) is designed to hit the peak of the disease season (hence Oct/Nov for flu).
No-one really should care about testing positive now, other than to guide their actions in respect of others. I might not want to visit people with weaker immune systems. for instance, although that advice ought to be the same for coughs, colds and other bugs too.
There is a definite uptick in cases and it isn't a trivial illness, though vastly less risky than the first wave. Then the virus was more lower tract than upper, and falling on an immune naive population. Between vaccination and infection nearly everyone has some immunity now.
The powers that be are clearly worried though. Masks are compulsory in clinical areas again in many hospitals, and we are all having mask fit training for the new FFP3 masks and respirators that have appeared in the stock rooms.
I hope it is just the precautionary principle, but someone senior is worried.
I think its precautionary, plus we are now in a situation where asking people to put a mask on in hospital is not seen as an extreme reaction, and in many ways its a sensible thing. Hospitals tend to be full of sick people as a rule.
I'm wary of case data - the significance is only really impact on hopsitals, especially as we go into winter. And once again we will have many people with covid NOT as the primary reason for hospitalization.
In non war news, what the feck is wrong with Vanilla?
It now has multiple issues. Photos are nearly always tiny to the point of invisibility. But not always? It sometimes makes me sign in and out, constantly
And the quoting problems are ridiculous. Sometimes it mangles hour old comments and shoves them in an entirely new comment. Why?
It’s becoming frustratingly difficult to use. I blame Elon Musk
If this means we'll be spared the tedious holiday snaps in future then I, for one, say "bravo" to the boffins at Vanilla HQ.
lol yes. There is that upside
But - above and beyond my snaps of champagne bottles next to banyan trees - the inability to post proper sized images is a drag
Look at that news clip about the Starmer protester @TSE has just posted. It’s microscopic. You have to get special lenses to read it
This is a shame. We used to be able to illustrate comments visually. Now we can’t
I have probably been to over a hundred ICE vehicle fires, though. Cars, trucks, buses, bikes, a light aircraft, a few boats. Lots of arson, but ICE cars catch fire quite easily on their own.
As they did in Liverpool in very large numbers.
One aspect of EVs is that many (most?) armour the battery pack, which is at the bottom of the vehicle, so an fire doesn’t go up, down or sideways. Any fire is vented forward or backwards.
This is an effect of armouring the pack to protect it from damage, and protect the passengers in the vehicle from any fire.
Anyone know what is happening with Covid booster eligibility?
I thought you had to be over 65 and there is no private option but have seen this:
"There will be a Covid Vaccination clinic running at Tesco Car Park on Saturday 20th March between 12.30pm to 3.30pm. You, or anyone in your household over the age of 18 years, will be able to have your vaccine. There is no need to book an appointment, just turn up."
Is this just for those few who have had no vaccine at all or whether they are referring to boosters?
My GP has offered me one for around now, but I had one booster in August ahead of chemo - so I need to find out if it is a new variant.
They ask if you have had booster in last 6 months so likely will not give you one. I turned mine down but took flu vaccine.
Turns out there was another brutal massacre on October 7. Kibbutz Be’eri. 100 dead minimum: same procedure - kill every Jew they could, no matter what age
There is one video which just shows the bloody aftermath. A river of blood. I shan’t link
One of the many chilling aspects of these crimes is the way they offer a glimpse of what a brutal pogrom must have been like, or indeed one of the “relatively minor” but hideous atrocities of the Holocaust
In particular I’m reminded of this: the Kovno garage massacre. Click at your discretion
One thing I've learnt this attack is how important scale is for terrorist attacks.
In one respect, it's a huge failure for Hamas. 1:1 victims:terrorists must make it the least efficient attack in history. And they've lost all of their best fighters.
And they are about to lose all the rest
They'll be running out of virgins in paradise.
I imagine the ones they are getting now are the older models - the ones who kept themselves for the "right" man, but never found them, and died aged 80 or so.
Is there somewhere else PBers can post links/descriptions of murdered women and children? Call me a lily-livered shill if you will , but I find I can be aware of what’s happening without hearing of the detail.
TIA.
We don't agree often but on this I certainly do
I listened to ITV report of the massacre at the Kfar Aza kibbutz and literally wept
I could not relate it to my wife, and whilst we need responsible reporting the tendency to upset is a concern not least for the number of children who may be watching
How many children are “watching PB”?!
I wasn't talking about PB but Sky and BBC
@Anabobazina was talking about PB. He wants us to stop talking about Gaza/israel because it upsets him. Or if we do talk about it we can only do it in very general ways or he gets tearful
It’s fairly ridiculous. Every news and social media is discussing it in depth. Yes it is hard and distressing. But it is the news
I don't see this issue as really worthy of discussion - all discussing it seems to do is bring a little of the misery and conflict and intractability of the situation into PB. They've been at it for decades; leave them to it. Perhaps when they realise they're not getting any attention, they will stop.
Turns out there was another brutal massacre on October 7. Kibbutz Be’eri. 100 dead minimum: same procedure - kill every Jew they could, no matter what age
There is one video which just shows the bloody aftermath. A river of blood. I shan’t link
One of the many chilling aspects of these crimes is the way they offer a glimpse of what a brutal pogrom must have been like, or indeed one of the “relatively minor” but hideous atrocities of the Holocaust
In particular I’m reminded of this: the Kovno garage massacre. Click at your discretion
One thing I've learnt this attack is how important scale is for terrorist attacks.
In one respect, it's a huge failure for Hamas. 1:1 victims:terrorists must make it the least efficient attack in history. And they've lost all of their best fighters.
And they are about to lose all the rest
They'll be running out of virgins in paradise.
I imagine the ones they are getting now are the older models - the ones who kept themselves for the "right" man, but never found them, and died aged 80 or so.
In non war news, what the feck is wrong with Vanilla?
It now has multiple issues. Photos are nearly always tiny to the point of invisibility. But not always? It sometimes makes me sign in and out, constantly
And the quoting problems are ridiculous. Sometimes it mangles hour old comments and shoves them in an entirely new comment. Why?
It’s becoming frustratingly difficult to use. I blame Elon Musk
If this means we'll be spared the tedious holiday snaps in future then I, for one, say "bravo" to the boffins at Vanilla HQ.
Gillian Anderson didn’t quite land her portrayal of Thatcher...
I thought that. I think she (or the director?) made the mistake doing late-period Thatcher from the beginning. She became LOTO at the age of 49 and PM at 53. Although she did age fast in office, the stiff movements, strained voice and rigid mouth (she had tooth problems) came later. By going full in to the Imperial Thatch version from the very beginning, she lost an arc.
It must have passed me by the point at which the public have become such great admirers of lawyers :-) and I say that even though my younger son is on his way to a legal career.
I always point out to him that as a Chartered Accountant, I enjoy more respect from the public than he ever will :-) I suspect, and don't blame him, that he thinks he can earn more money as I lawyer that I ever have as an accountant, perhaps that might go some way to proving my point!
Is there somewhere else PBers can post links/descriptions of murdered women and children? Call me a lily-livered shill if you will , but I find I can be aware of what’s happening without hearing of the detail.
TIA.
Good grief
No one is posting photos
No one is even posting LINKS to the worst images
What links are given come with warnings
You can’t really ask for much more insulation from reality than that. This is the dominant news story of the day - perhaps the year - and the latest appalling events are highly significant
No one is stopping you discussing the risks of electric vehicles starting fires in car parks; no one is stopping you scrolling past comments that make you flinch
It’s not possible to stop your brain reading something- known phenomenon. Ruining PB for me. YMMV.
The Hamas atrocities are front page news on every newspaper. With far more horrible detail than anything given here. I presume you are avoiding them as well?
Gillian Anderson didn’t quite land her portrayal of Thatcher...
I thought that. I think she (or the director?) made the mistake doing late-period Thatcher from the beginning. She became LOTO at the age of 49 and PM at 53. Although she did age fast in office, the stiff movements, strained voice and rigid mouth (she had tooth problems) came later. By going full in to the Imperial Thatch version from the very beginning, she lost an arc.
It was very incongruous, and Anderson is old enough to remember the real thing.
Is there somewhere else PBers can post links/descriptions of murdered women and children? Call me a lily-livered shill if you will , but I find I can be aware of what’s happening without hearing of the detail.
TIA.
We don't agree often but on this I certainly do
I listened to ITV report of the massacre at the Kfar Aza kibbutz and literally wept
I could not relate it to my wife, and whilst we need responsible reporting the tendency to upset is a concern not least for the number of children who may be watching
How many children are “watching PB”?!
I wasn't talking about PB but Sky and BBC
@Anabobazina was talking about PB. He wants us to stop talking about Gaza/israel because it upsets him. Or if we do talk about it we can only do it in very general ways or he gets tearful
It’s fairly ridiculous. Every news and social media is discussing it in depth. Yes it is hard and distressing. But it is the news
I don't get tearful. I just find it ruins PB for me, which I chiefly visit for a) entertainment b) debate and c) betting tips, in that order. Maybe some PBers like this stuff – but in that case they are very different animals to me.
The Luton airport fire demonstrates just how dangerous EVs are. Normal petrol and diesel cars do not have anything flammable - no tanks full of explosive liquids - and so are immune to fire.
Time to Ban EVs. For the children.
I haven't heard anyone suggest evs be banned, and may I say a rather extreme response to an incident that could have implications for evs and how to ensure safety is addressed and even regulated effectively
And what implications if it was a petrol engined car ?
The car park fire in Liverpool in 2018 destroyed a whole car park full of cars. Started by an LPG vehicle, once temperatures got high enough the fire spread from car to car, with one igniting every 30 seconds at the worst and rivers of flaming fuel spreading the conflagration even further.
So yes. I can understand why the blame is being put on EVs this time. There is a risk they might catch fire and be hard to put out...
The anti-EV hysteria from the right is so bad as to actually be funny.
I quite regularly see ICE cars merrily burning away on the hard should because a failed fuel hose pumps benzene all over the hot manifold. E10 bio-ethanol rich petrol eats non compatible (older and generally ULEZ non compliant) vehicle fuel lines. Best to ban all petrol cars and vans I guess.
Did you have concerns about this before EVs were invented?
Are you seriously comparing an easily-extinguished car fire on the hard shoulder to a car parked in a multi-storey carpark which autonomously combusts (if this is what happened) with up to 1500 other cars and maybe dozens of people present?
This fire, whether an ICE vehicle or an EV started it, will lead to an enquiry which will look at all aspects of the consequences including the different fire fighting capabilities to extinguish an ICE car fire from an EV one and to the safety of serious car fires in confined car parks
Those who are reacting by calling it a right wing plot or similar are not recognising that incidents like this create regulation which in turn protects the public from danger
It is why I referred to the 1979 Woolworths fire which led to the Furniture and Furnishings Fire Safety Regulation of 1988
This is not political, but is an example of how we should learn from serious incidents and improve for the benefit of all
It *is* political. The right have been waging war against EVs because they are change and they are environmentalism. Its directly tied into the pro-Sunak anti-environmentalism nonsense.
If EVs caught fire and burned harshly that is bad. But fuel cars car fire and burn fiercely. Car fires on the motorway usually require the road to be resurfaced underneath them. A car fire in a car park is bad because it concentrates the head and sets other cars on fire.
Again, Liverpool was nothing to do with EVs yet saw fuel cars exploding into flame every 30 seconds and sending rivers of liquid fire across the whole floor until it collapsed and spread the fire to other floors.
So whatever risk you and the rest of the reactionary right are trying to put on EVs *is already there* with fuel cars.
There's merit in both these views imo.
There will be an enquiry - and the correct body is probably the HSE - recommendations, and some changes of practice to reflect the different risks in the changed mix of vehicles. It will also I think address the design / build of the car park, which will be done to recent standards. Which is all fine and normal.
We can't really say any more until we have a professional analysis of the causes and progress of the fire.
It is political because elements, mainly of the political right, *are* weaponising these questions, and the current Govt see shouting about the fictional 'war on motorists' as one of the last straws they can grasp at. Credible candidates for Hail Mary passes are in increasingly short supply !
Someone asked about car parking spaces and spacing. I think any dimensions of car parking spaces are far smaller than potential fire spread distances. But it's correct that vehicles are larger and heavier, whilst advised standard sizes for parking spaces have not increased.
In keeping my eye on video reports, I'm seeing occasional examples of large 17ft-20ft long 7.5-8ft wide tonka-trucks imported from the USA getting tickets for using multiple, or disabled or family, spaces. Some of the behemoth purveyors even have networks of dealers here, now.
Gillian Anderson didn’t quite land her portrayal of Thatcher...
I thought that. I think she (or the director?) made the mistake doing late-period Thatcher from the beginning. She became LOTO at the age of 49 and PM at 53. Although she did age fast in office, the stiff movements, strained voice and rigid mouth (she had tooth problems) came later. By going full in to the Imperial Thatch version from the very beginning, she lost an arc.
Agreed. And Thatchers slow, deliberative delivery was used by her rhetorically - to make a point, as emphasis, to show strength.
It wasn’t her normal conversational manner as watching any interview with her will demonstrate. Weirdly, Anderson seemed to decide to portray her as if she talked like her conference speeches all day, every day.
Streep did a much better job at getting the essence right - though that film had an awful lot of issues too.
The Luton airport fire demonstrates just how dangerous EVs are. Normal petrol and diesel cars do not have anything flammable - no tanks full of explosive liquids - and so are immune to fire.
Time to Ban EVs. For the children.
I haven't heard anyone suggest evs be banned, and may I say a rather extreme response to an incident that could have implications for evs and how to ensure safety is addressed and even regulated effectively
And what implications if it was a petrol engined car ?
The car park fire in Liverpool in 2018 destroyed a whole car park full of cars. Started by an LPG vehicle, once temperatures got high enough the fire spread from car to car, with one igniting every 30 seconds at the worst and rivers of flaming fuel spreading the conflagration even further.
So yes. I can understand why the blame is being put on EVs this time. There is a risk they might catch fire and be hard to put out...
The anti-EV hysteria from the right is so bad as to actually be funny.
I quite regularly see ICE cars merrily burning away on the hard should because a failed fuel hose pumps benzene all over the hot manifold. E10 bio-ethanol rich petrol eats non compatible (older and generally ULEZ non compliant) vehicle fuel lines. Best to ban all petrol cars and vans I guess.
Did you have concerns about this before EVs were invented?
Are you seriously comparing an easily-extinguished car fire on the hard shoulder to a car parked in a multi-storey carpark which autonomously combusts (if this is what happened) with up to 1500 other cars and maybe dozens of people present?
This fire, whether an ICE vehicle or an EV started it, will lead to an enquiry which will look at all aspects of the consequences including the different fire fighting capabilities to extinguish an ICE car fire from an EV one and to the safety of serious car fires in confined car parks
Those who are reacting by calling it a right wing plot or similar are not recognising that incidents like this create regulation which in turn protects the public from danger
It is why I referred to the 1979 Woolworths fire which led to the Furniture and Furnishings Fire Safety Regulation of 1988
This is not political, but is an example of how we should learn from serious incidents and improve for the benefit of all
Will it eck lead to looking at putting out fires. Who's going to spend money on that? We already know how to put fires out. It's just a car fire in a car park. Happens every day. The Luton one was just a bit bigger. You need to calm down, old fella.
I was actually involved in the legislation following the Woolworths fire and it was a defining moment in fire safety for modern upholstered furniture
Your attempt to downplay a fire of this magnitude is surprising in view of your fire service but what if this fire had taken lives
It is not 'just a car fire' anymore than Woolworths fire was just a fire in a furniture shop
And please do not patronise me
Fella, it's a car fire in a car park. No one died. No great legislation will come out of it. Cars parked next to each other in a multi storey structure are going to burn in the event one of them goes up. No new firefighting techniques will come out of it, but "lessons will be learned" around the lack of sprinklers. Get over it.
A question: in your expertise have you known a petrol or diesel car to autonomously combust after being left parked a while? I'm trying to understand how common this scenario is and balance against the number of cars on the road. I've never heard of this happening but you are the guy to ask.
There was that one I mentioned earlier which caused slight damage to an office window next to it, but the only reason PB latched onto it was to blame the SNP cos a Labour MP/MSP had an office in the building. So it does happen. But how often?
But lots of houses have internal garages (albeit probably too small these days for the Morningside/Mayfair Sturmmannschaftkraftwagens anyway). And I've never heard of insurers complaining about cars parked in them. Perhaps the spare petrol can is more of a risk.
Is there somewhere else PBers can post links/descriptions of murdered women and children? Call me a lily-livered shill if you will , but I find I can be aware of what’s happening without hearing of the detail.
TIA.
We don't agree often but on this I certainly do
I listened to ITV report of the massacre at the Kfar Aza kibbutz and literally wept
I could not relate it to my wife, and whilst we need responsible reporting the tendency to upset is a concern not least for the number of children who may be watching
How many children are “watching PB”?!
I wasn't talking about PB but Sky and BBC
@Anabobazina was talking about PB. He wants us to stop talking about Gaza/israel because it upsets him. Or if we do talk about it we can only do it in very general ways or he gets tearful
It’s fairly ridiculous. Every news and social media is discussing it in depth. Yes it is hard and distressing. But it is the news
I don't see this issue as really worthy of discussion - all discussing it seems to do is bring a little of the misery and conflict and intractability of the situation into PB. They've been at it for decades; leave them to it. Perhaps when they realise they're not getting any attention, they will stop.
I picture them now in Hamas HQ, southern Gaza
Jihadi 1: Sir, I have terrible news
Hamas commander: Allah preserve us, the Occupiers have finally invaded?
Jihadi 1: No, sir, even worse
Hamas commander: you don’t mean…
Jihadi 1: Aiwa. Yes. They’ve stopped talking about us on Mike Smithson’s politicalbetting.com after complaints from @anabobazina
Hamas commander: and the Welsh guy? Large G? What did he say??
Jihadi 1: Big G sir. He agreed with @Anabobazina and now many of our best militants are in despair
Hamas commander falls silent. The guns outside fade into quiet. Slowly he crumples the map on his desk. End
Oh the trailer for "The Crown" season 6 has dropped. It's a teaser not a full trailer, so a bit dull. "Walking thru corridors whilst reminiscing" levels of dull. But there y'go.
I can't wait. The Crown is my favourite historical documentary.
I stopped at series 4. The Charles and Diana psychodrama wasn’t of interest to me. It’s a story we’ve all heard told a hundred times before.
I also felt it failed to give what was one of the most pivotal decades in our political history the full treatment it deserved. Gillian Anderson didn’t quite land her portrayal of Thatcher, and not enough was made of how transformational (for good or ill) her time in office really was.
I thought the first three series were riveting though. I don’t know what series 5 was like because I was so put off by series 4. I could be convinced to give it a go if it was a return to form.
Series 1 and 2 were the best because Claire Foy is just brilliant in everything she does. It has been downhill since then for sure but I still love it. I actually thought Gillian Anderson did a good job of humanising Thatcher. I quite enjoyed the Charles and Diana psychodrama. I thought Dominic West was great as Charles although a bit too attractive to be realistic. If you didn't like series 4 you probably won't like series 5 either, although it was perhaps a bit better. In some ways the fading story reflects the fading reality - an ageing monarch in a diminishing country. They can only work with the material they have!
Is there somewhere else PBers can post links/descriptions of murdered women and children? Call me a lily-livered shill if you will , but I find I can be aware of what’s happening without hearing of the detail.
TIA.
We don't agree often but on this I certainly do
I listened to ITV report of the massacre at the Kfar Aza kibbutz and literally wept
I could not relate it to my wife, and whilst we need responsible reporting the tendency to upset is a concern not least for the number of children who may be watching
How many children are “watching PB”?!
I wasn't talking about PB but Sky and BBC
@Anabobazina was talking about PB. He wants us to stop talking about Gaza/israel because it upsets him. Or if we do talk about it we can only do it in very general ways or he gets tearful
It’s fairly ridiculous. Every news and social media is discussing it in depth. Yes it is hard and distressing. But it is the news
I don't get tearful. I just find it ruins PB for me, which I chiefly visit for a) entertainment b) debate and c) betting tips, in that order. Maybe some PBers like this stuff – but in that case they are very different animals to me.
Learn to scroll. Its not hard
Example. I am finding this debate about the relative combustibility of electric vehicles monumentally dull and nerdish. If I had to read all the comments I would weep, like you
But I don’t. As soon as it becomes clear that this is the subject of the comment I scroll and move on. It can be done
I don’t loudly demand that people stop talking about it. Each to their own
The Luton airport fire demonstrates just how dangerous EVs are. Normal petrol and diesel cars do not have anything flammable - no tanks full of explosive liquids - and so are immune to fire.
Time to Ban EVs. For the children.
I haven't heard anyone suggest evs be banned, and may I say a rather extreme response to an incident that could have implications for evs and how to ensure safety is addressed and even regulated effectively
And what implications if it was a petrol engined car ?
The car park fire in Liverpool in 2018 destroyed a whole car park full of cars. Started by an LPG vehicle, once temperatures got high enough the fire spread from car to car, with one igniting every 30 seconds at the worst and rivers of flaming fuel spreading the conflagration even further.
So yes. I can understand why the blame is being put on EVs this time. There is a risk they might catch fire and be hard to put out...
The anti-EV hysteria from the right is so bad as to actually be funny.
I quite regularly see ICE cars merrily burning away on the hard should because a failed fuel hose pumps benzene all over the hot manifold. E10 bio-ethanol rich petrol eats non compatible (older and generally ULEZ non compliant) vehicle fuel lines. Best to ban all petrol cars and vans I guess.
Did you have concerns about this before EVs were invented?
Are you seriously comparing an easily-extinguished car fire on the hard shoulder to a car parked in a multi-storey carpark which autonomously combusts (if this is what happened) with up to 1500 other cars and maybe dozens of people present?
This fire, whether an ICE vehicle or an EV started it, will lead to an enquiry which will look at all aspects of the consequences including the different fire fighting capabilities to extinguish an ICE car fire from an EV one and to the safety of serious car fires in confined car parks
Those who are reacting by calling it a right wing plot or similar are not recognising that incidents like this create regulation which in turn protects the public from danger
It is why I referred to the 1979 Woolworths fire which led to the Furniture and Furnishings Fire Safety Regulation of 1988
This is not political, but is an example of how we should learn from serious incidents and improve for the benefit of all
Will it eck lead to looking at putting out fires. Who's going to spend money on that? We already know how to put fires out. It's just a car fire in a car park. Happens every day. The Luton one was just a bit bigger. You need to calm down, old fella.
I was actually involved in the legislation following the Woolworths fire and it was a defining moment in fire safety for modern upholstered furniture
Your attempt to downplay a fire of this magnitude is surprising in view of your fire service but what if this fire had taken lives
It is not 'just a car fire' anymore than Woolworths fire was just a fire in a furniture shop
And please do not patronise me
Fella, it's a car fire in a car park. No one died. No great legislation will come out of it. Cars parked next to each other in a multi storey structure are going to burn in the event one of them goes up. No new firefighting techniques will come out of it, but "lessons will be learned" around the lack of sprinklers. Get over it.
A question: in your expertise have you known a petrol or diesel car to autonomously combust after being left parked a while? I'm trying to understand how common this scenario is and balance against the number of cars on the road. I've never heard of this happening but you are the guy to ask.
There was that one I mentioned earlier which caused slight damage to an office window next to it, but the only reason PB latched onto it was to blame the SNP cos a Labour MP/MSP had an office in the building. So it does happen. But how often?
But lots of houses have internal garages (albeit probably too small these days for the Morningside/Mayfair Sturmmannschaftkraftwagens anyway). And I've never heard of insurers complaining about cars parked in them. Perhaps the spare petrol can is more of a risk.
Anyone know what is happening with Covid booster eligibility?
I thought you had to be over 65 and there is no private option but have seen this:
"There will be a Covid Vaccination clinic running at Tesco Car Park on Saturday 20th March between 12.30pm to 3.30pm. You, or anyone in your household over the age of 18 years, will be able to have your vaccine. There is no need to book an appointment, just turn up."
Is this just for those few who have had no vaccine at all or whether they are referring to boosters?
My GP has offered me one for around now, but I had one booster in August ahead of chemo - so I need to find out if it is a new variant.
They ask if you have had booster in last 6 months so likely will not give you one. I turned mine down but took flu vaccine.
Just for clarity: I answered that somewhere after chatting to the GP receptionist - it's a new variant so a new jab, and I am booked in for 2 weeks' time.
The Luton airport fire demonstrates just how dangerous EVs are. Normal petrol and diesel cars do not have anything flammable - no tanks full of explosive liquids - and so are immune to fire.
Time to Ban EVs. For the children.
I haven't heard anyone suggest evs be banned, and may I say a rather extreme response to an incident that could have implications for evs and how to ensure safety is addressed and even regulated effectively
And what implications if it was a petrol engined car ?
The car park fire in Liverpool in 2018 destroyed a whole car park full of cars. Started by an LPG vehicle, once temperatures got high enough the fire spread from car to car, with one igniting every 30 seconds at the worst and rivers of flaming fuel spreading the conflagration even further.
So yes. I can understand why the blame is being put on EVs this time. There is a risk they might catch fire and be hard to put out...
The anti-EV hysteria from the right is so bad as to actually be funny.
I quite regularly see ICE cars merrily burning away on the hard should because a failed fuel hose pumps benzene all over the hot manifold. E10 bio-ethanol rich petrol eats non compatible (older and generally ULEZ non compliant) vehicle fuel lines. Best to ban all petrol cars and vans I guess.
Did you have concerns about this before EVs were invented?
Are you seriously comparing an easily-extinguished car fire on the hard shoulder to a car parked in a multi-storey carpark which autonomously combusts (if this is what happened) with up to 1500 other cars and maybe dozens of people present?
This fire, whether an ICE vehicle or an EV started it, will lead to an enquiry which will look at all aspects of the consequences including the different fire fighting capabilities to extinguish an ICE car fire from an EV one and to the safety of serious car fires in confined car parks
Those who are reacting by calling it a right wing plot or similar are not recognising that incidents like this create regulation which in turn protects the public from danger
It is why I referred to the 1979 Woolworths fire which led to the Furniture and Furnishings Fire Safety Regulation of 1988
This is not political, but is an example of how we should learn from serious incidents and improve for the benefit of all
Will it eck lead to looking at putting out fires. Who's going to spend money on that? We already know how to put fires out. It's just a car fire in a car park. Happens every day. The Luton one was just a bit bigger. You need to calm down, old fella.
I was actually involved in the legislation following the Woolworths fire and it was a defining moment in fire safety for modern upholstered furniture
Your attempt to downplay a fire of this magnitude is surprising in view of your fire service but what if this fire had taken lives
It is not 'just a car fire' anymore than Woolworths fire was just a fire in a furniture shop
And please do not patronise me
Fella, it's a car fire in a car park. No one died. No great legislation will come out of it. Cars parked next to each other in a multi storey structure are going to burn in the event one of them goes up. No new firefighting techniques will come out of it, but "lessons will be learned" around the lack of sprinklers. Get over it.
A question: in your expertise have you known a petrol or diesel car to autonomously combust after being left parked a while? I'm trying to understand how common this scenario is and balance against the number of cars on the road. I've never heard of this happening but you are the guy to ask.
There was that one I mentioned earlier which caused slight damage to an office window next to it, but the only reason PB latched onto it was to blame the SNP cos a Labour MP/MSP had an office in the building. So it does happen. But how often?
But lots of houses have internal garages (albeit probably too small these days for the Morningside/Mayfair Sturmmannschaftkraftwagens anyway). And I've never heard of insurers complaining about cars parked in them. Perhaps the spare petrol can is more of a risk.
Is there somewhere else PBers can post links/descriptions of murdered women and children? Call me a lily-livered shill if you will , but I find I can be aware of what’s happening without hearing of the detail.
TIA.
We don't agree often but on this I certainly do
I listened to ITV report of the massacre at the Kfar Aza kibbutz and literally wept
I could not relate it to my wife, and whilst we need responsible reporting the tendency to upset is a concern not least for the number of children who may be watching
How many children are “watching PB”?!
I wasn't talking about PB but Sky and BBC
@Anabobazina was talking about PB. He wants us to stop talking about Gaza/israel because it upsets him. Or if we do talk about it we can only do it in very general ways or he gets tearful
It’s fairly ridiculous. Every news and social media is discussing it in depth. Yes it is hard and distressing. But it is the news
I don't see this issue as really worthy of discussion - all discussing it seems to do is bring a little of the misery and conflict and intractability of the situation into PB. They've been at it for decades; leave them to it. Perhaps when they realise they're not getting any attention, they will stop.
I picture them now in Hamas HQ, southern Gaza
Jihadi 1: Sir, I have terrible news
Hamas commander: Allah preserve us, the Occupiers have finally invaded?
Jihadi 1: No, sir, even worse
Hamas commander: you don’t mean…
Jihadi 1: Aiwa. Yes. They’ve stopped talking about us on Mike Smithson’s politicalbetting.com after complaints from @anabobazina
Hamas commander: and the Welsh guy? Large G? What did he say??
Jihadi 1: Big G sir. He agreed with @Anabobazina and now many of our best militants are in despair
Hamas commander falls silent. The guns outside fade into quiet. Slowly he crumples the map on his desk. End
The Luton airport fire demonstrates just how dangerous EVs are. Normal petrol and diesel cars do not have anything flammable - no tanks full of explosive liquids - and so are immune to fire.
Time to Ban EVs. For the children.
I haven't heard anyone suggest evs be banned, and may I say a rather extreme response to an incident that could have implications for evs and how to ensure safety is addressed and even regulated effectively
And what implications if it was a petrol engined car ?
The car park fire in Liverpool in 2018 destroyed a whole car park full of cars. Started by an LPG vehicle, once temperatures got high enough the fire spread from car to car, with one igniting every 30 seconds at the worst and rivers of flaming fuel spreading the conflagration even further.
So yes. I can understand why the blame is being put on EVs this time. There is a risk they might catch fire and be hard to put out...
The anti-EV hysteria from the right is so bad as to actually be funny.
I quite regularly see ICE cars merrily burning away on the hard should because a failed fuel hose pumps benzene all over the hot manifold. E10 bio-ethanol rich petrol eats non compatible (older and generally ULEZ non compliant) vehicle fuel lines. Best to ban all petrol cars and vans I guess.
Did you have concerns about this before EVs were invented?
Are you seriously comparing an easily-extinguished car fire on the hard shoulder to a car parked in a multi-storey carpark which autonomously combusts (if this is what happened) with up to 1500 other cars and maybe dozens of people present?
This fire, whether an ICE vehicle or an EV started it, will lead to an enquiry which will look at all aspects of the consequences including the different fire fighting capabilities to extinguish an ICE car fire from an EV one and to the safety of serious car fires in confined car parks
Those who are reacting by calling it a right wing plot or similar are not recognising that incidents like this create regulation which in turn protects the public from danger
It is why I referred to the 1979 Woolworths fire which led to the Furniture and Furnishings Fire Safety Regulation of 1988
This is not political, but is an example of how we should learn from serious incidents and improve for the benefit of all
Will it eck lead to looking at putting out fires. Who's going to spend money on that? We already know how to put fires out. It's just a car fire in a car park. Happens every day. The Luton one was just a bit bigger. You need to calm down, old fella.
There are some fun EV specific issues with putting fires out, which are still fairly new and novel. The vast amounts of water required and the potential for re-ignition are quite a headache in situations were solutions and protocols have been designed around dealing with ICE fires.
I've a friend who does a lot of technical work on lithium ion battery fires. From talking to him, although he's always a bit cagey, I get the impression that a lot of technical people would like to ban EVs from high risk environments such as ferries, but there is massive political pressure not to do so. The politicans fear such a ban would kill EV adoption stone dead because the public would wrongly perceive them as dangerous fire hazards. I think his private view is that at some point there will be a major catastrophe which kills a literal boatload of people, after which "lessons will be learned".
I've detailed above about putting out EV fires. They're a normal car pretty much until the batteries get involved. Then it's showtime, but it's very rare and I never went to one.
The Luton airport fire demonstrates just how dangerous EVs are. Normal petrol and diesel cars do not have anything flammable - no tanks full of explosive liquids - and so are immune to fire.
Time to Ban EVs. For the children.
I haven't heard anyone suggest evs be banned, and may I say a rather extreme response to an incident that could have implications for evs and how to ensure safety is addressed and even regulated effectively
And what implications if it was a petrol engined car ?
The car park fire in Liverpool in 2018 destroyed a whole car park full of cars. Started by an LPG vehicle, once temperatures got high enough the fire spread from car to car, with one igniting every 30 seconds at the worst and rivers of flaming fuel spreading the conflagration even further.
So yes. I can understand why the blame is being put on EVs this time. There is a risk they might catch fire and be hard to put out...
The anti-EV hysteria from the right is so bad as to actually be funny.
I quite regularly see ICE cars merrily burning away on the hard should because a failed fuel hose pumps benzene all over the hot manifold. E10 bio-ethanol rich petrol eats non compatible (older and generally ULEZ non compliant) vehicle fuel lines. Best to ban all petrol cars and vans I guess.
Did you have concerns about this before EVs were invented?
Are you seriously comparing an easily-extinguished car fire on the hard shoulder to a car parked in a multi-storey carpark which autonomously combusts (if this is what happened) with up to 1500 other cars and maybe dozens of people present?
This fire, whether an ICE vehicle or an EV started it, will lead to an enquiry which will look at all aspects of the consequences including the different fire fighting capabilities to extinguish an ICE car fire from an EV one and to the safety of serious car fires in confined car parks
Those who are reacting by calling it a right wing plot or similar are not recognising that incidents like this create regulation which in turn protects the public from danger
It is why I referred to the 1979 Woolworths fire which led to the Furniture and Furnishings Fire Safety Regulation of 1988
This is not political, but is an example of how we should learn from serious incidents and improve for the benefit of all
Will it eck lead to looking at putting out fires. Who's going to spend money on that? We already know how to put fires out. It's just a car fire in a car park. Happens every day. The Luton one was just a bit bigger. You need to calm down, old fella.
There are some fun EV specific issues with putting fires out, which are still fairly new and novel. The vast amounts of water required and the potential for re-ignition are quite a headache in situations were solutions and protocols have been designed around dealing with ICE fires.
I've a friend who does a lot of technical work on lithium ion battery fires. From talking to him, although he's always a bit cagey, I get the impression that a lot of technical people would like to ban EVs from high risk environments such as ferries, but there is massive political pressure not to do so. The politicans fear such a ban would kill EV adoption stone dead because the public would wrongly perceive them as dangerous fire hazards. I think his private view is that at some point there will be a major catastrophe which kills a literal boatload of people, after which "lessons will be learned".
How is a major catastrophe on a ferry due to a fire among petrol/diesel cars prevented?
Is there somewhere else PBers can post links/descriptions of murdered women and children? Call me a lily-livered shill if you will , but I find I can be aware of what’s happening without hearing of the detail.
TIA.
We don't agree often but on this I certainly do
I listened to ITV report of the massacre at the Kfar Aza kibbutz and literally wept
I could not relate it to my wife, and whilst we need responsible reporting the tendency to upset is a concern not least for the number of children who may be watching
How many children are “watching PB”?!
I wasn't talking about PB but Sky and BBC
@Anabobazina was talking about PB. He wants us to stop talking about Gaza/israel because it upsets him. Or if we do talk about it we can only do it in very general ways or he gets tearful
It’s fairly ridiculous. Every news and social media is discussing it in depth. Yes it is hard and distressing. But it is the news
I don't get tearful. I just find it ruins PB for me, which I chiefly visit for a) entertainment b) debate and c) betting tips, in that order. Maybe some PBers like this stuff – but in that case they are very different animals to me.
Learn to scroll. Its not hard
Example. I am finding this debate about the relative combustibility of electric vehicles monumentally dull and nerdish. If I had to read all the comments I would weep, like you
But I don’t. As soon as it becomes clear that this is the subject of the comment I scroll and move on. It can be done
I don’t loudly demand that people stop talking about it. Each to their own
I didn't 'loudly demand' anything, I merely made a polite request. Clearly you aren't going to stop posting the stuff, so I'll now politely withdraw.
The Luton airport fire demonstrates just how dangerous EVs are. Normal petrol and diesel cars do not have anything flammable - no tanks full of explosive liquids - and so are immune to fire.
Time to Ban EVs. For the children.
I haven't heard anyone suggest evs be banned, and may I say a rather extreme response to an incident that could have implications for evs and how to ensure safety is addressed and even regulated effectively
And what implications if it was a petrol engined car ?
The car park fire in Liverpool in 2018 destroyed a whole car park full of cars. Started by an LPG vehicle, once temperatures got high enough the fire spread from car to car, with one igniting every 30 seconds at the worst and rivers of flaming fuel spreading the conflagration even further.
So yes. I can understand why the blame is being put on EVs this time. There is a risk they might catch fire and be hard to put out...
The anti-EV hysteria from the right is so bad as to actually be funny.
I quite regularly see ICE cars merrily burning away on the hard should because a failed fuel hose pumps benzene all over the hot manifold. E10 bio-ethanol rich petrol eats non compatible (older and generally ULEZ non compliant) vehicle fuel lines. Best to ban all petrol cars and vans I guess.
Did you have concerns about this before EVs were invented?
Are you seriously comparing an easily-extinguished car fire on the hard shoulder to a car parked in a multi-storey carpark which autonomously combusts (if this is what happened) with up to 1500 other cars and maybe dozens of people present?
This fire, whether an ICE vehicle or an EV started it, will lead to an enquiry which will look at all aspects of the consequences including the different fire fighting capabilities to extinguish an ICE car fire from an EV one and to the safety of serious car fires in confined car parks
Those who are reacting by calling it a right wing plot or similar are not recognising that incidents like this create regulation which in turn protects the public from danger
It is why I referred to the 1979 Woolworths fire which led to the Furniture and Furnishings Fire Safety Regulation of 1988
This is not political, but is an example of how we should learn from serious incidents and improve for the benefit of all
Will it eck lead to looking at putting out fires. Who's going to spend money on that? We already know how to put fires out. It's just a car fire in a car park. Happens every day. The Luton one was just a bit bigger. You need to calm down, old fella.
I was actually involved in the legislation following the Woolworths fire and it was a defining moment in fire safety for modern upholstered furniture
Your attempt to downplay a fire of this magnitude is surprising in view of your fire service but what if this fire had taken lives
It is not 'just a car fire' anymore than Woolworths fire was just a fire in a furniture shop
And please do not patronise me
Fella, it's a car fire in a car park. No one died. No great legislation will come out of it. Cars parked next to each other in a multi storey structure are going to burn in the event one of them goes up. No new firefighting techniques will come out of it, but "lessons will be learned" around the lack of sprinklers. Get over it.
A question: in your expertise have you known a petrol or diesel car to autonomously combust after being left parked a while? I'm trying to understand how common this scenario is and balance against the number of cars on the road. I've never heard of this happening but you are the guy to ask.
Yup. Electrical faults mostly but also leaking fuel and oil on to hot surfaces, hot brakes, dodgy cables in 12v sockets.
The Luton airport fire demonstrates just how dangerous EVs are. Normal petrol and diesel cars do not have anything flammable - no tanks full of explosive liquids - and so are immune to fire.
Time to Ban EVs. For the children.
I haven't heard anyone suggest evs be banned, and may I say a rather extreme response to an incident that could have implications for evs and how to ensure safety is addressed and even regulated effectively
And what implications if it was a petrol engined car ?
The car park fire in Liverpool in 2018 destroyed a whole car park full of cars. Started by an LPG vehicle, once temperatures got high enough the fire spread from car to car, with one igniting every 30 seconds at the worst and rivers of flaming fuel spreading the conflagration even further.
So yes. I can understand why the blame is being put on EVs this time. There is a risk they might catch fire and be hard to put out...
The anti-EV hysteria from the right is so bad as to actually be funny.
I quite regularly see ICE cars merrily burning away on the hard should because a failed fuel hose pumps benzene all over the hot manifold. E10 bio-ethanol rich petrol eats non compatible (older and generally ULEZ non compliant) vehicle fuel lines. Best to ban all petrol cars and vans I guess.
Did you have concerns about this before EVs were invented?
Are you seriously comparing an easily-extinguished car fire on the hard shoulder to a car parked in a multi-storey carpark which autonomously combusts (if this is what happened) with up to 1500 other cars and maybe dozens of people present?
This fire, whether an ICE vehicle or an EV started it, will lead to an enquiry which will look at all aspects of the consequences including the different fire fighting capabilities to extinguish an ICE car fire from an EV one and to the safety of serious car fires in confined car parks
Those who are reacting by calling it a right wing plot or similar are not recognising that incidents like this create regulation which in turn protects the public from danger
It is why I referred to the 1979 Woolworths fire which led to the Furniture and Furnishings Fire Safety Regulation of 1988
This is not political, but is an example of how we should learn from serious incidents and improve for the benefit of all
Will it eck lead to looking at putting out fires. Who's going to spend money on that? We already know how to put fires out. It's just a car fire in a car park. Happens every day. The Luton one was just a bit bigger. You need to calm down, old fella.
There are some fun EV specific issues with putting fires out, which are still fairly new and novel. The vast amounts of water required and the potential for re-ignition are quite a headache in situations were solutions and protocols have been designed around dealing with ICE fires.
I've a friend who does a lot of technical work on lithium ion battery fires. From talking to him, although he's always a bit cagey, I get the impression that a lot of technical people would like to ban EVs from high risk environments such as ferries, but there is massive political pressure not to do so. The politicans fear such a ban would kill EV adoption stone dead because the public would wrongly perceive them as dangerous fire hazards. I think his private view is that at some point there will be a major catastrophe which kills a literal boatload of people, after which "lessons will be learned".
How is a major catastrophe on a ferry due to a fire among petrol/diesel cars prevented?
A good question.
Especially as if one uses sprinklers, and leaves them running for a long time and there isn't efficient scupperage or drainage pumps, you get lots of free surface water, which in quantity is a Very Bad Thing in a ro-ro vehicle deck.
Is there somewhere else PBers can post links/descriptions of murdered women and children? Call me a lily-livered shill if you will , but I find I can be aware of what’s happening without hearing of the detail.
TIA.
We don't agree often but on this I certainly do
I listened to ITV report of the massacre at the Kfar Aza kibbutz and literally wept
I could not relate it to my wife, and whilst we need responsible reporting the tendency to upset is a concern not least for the number of children who may be watching
How many children are “watching PB”?!
I wasn't talking about PB but Sky and BBC
@Anabobazina was talking about PB. He wants us to stop talking about Gaza/israel because it upsets him. Or if we do talk about it we can only do it in very general ways or he gets tearful
It’s fairly ridiculous. Every news and social media is discussing it in depth. Yes it is hard and distressing. But it is the news
I don't get tearful. I just find it ruins PB for me, which I chiefly visit for a) entertainment b) debate and c) betting tips, in that order. Maybe some PBers like this stuff – but in that case they are very different animals to me.
The Israel/Palestine situation is (and has been for decades) one of the most important geopolitical dynamics on the planet. It is the home of proxy wars between the Cold War belligerents, and now fulfils a similar purpose, bringing in the Sunni/Shia conflict also. Everyone from Biden to SKS to Hamza Yusuf is engaged.
When there are flashpoints as occurred over the weekend of course we are going to discuss it at length.
I took a break from the subject yesterday as I felt PB was becoming a bit CiF-ish but it is a critically important topic nevertheless. As for the "graphic descriptions" - violence is a tool of conflict and is being used consciously by Hamas wantonly killing festival-goers and perhaps whole families, and by Israel as it levels parts of Gaza.
The Luton airport fire demonstrates just how dangerous EVs are. Normal petrol and diesel cars do not have anything flammable - no tanks full of explosive liquids - and so are immune to fire.
Time to Ban EVs. For the children.
I haven't heard anyone suggest evs be banned, and may I say a rather extreme response to an incident that could have implications for evs and how to ensure safety is addressed and even regulated effectively
And what implications if it was a petrol engined car ?
The car park fire in Liverpool in 2018 destroyed a whole car park full of cars. Started by an LPG vehicle, once temperatures got high enough the fire spread from car to car, with one igniting every 30 seconds at the worst and rivers of flaming fuel spreading the conflagration even further.
So yes. I can understand why the blame is being put on EVs this time. There is a risk they might catch fire and be hard to put out...
The anti-EV hysteria from the right is so bad as to actually be funny.
I quite regularly see ICE cars merrily burning away on the hard should because a failed fuel hose pumps benzene all over the hot manifold. E10 bio-ethanol rich petrol eats non compatible (older and generally ULEZ non compliant) vehicle fuel lines. Best to ban all petrol cars and vans I guess.
Did you have concerns about this before EVs were invented?
Are you seriously comparing an easily-extinguished car fire on the hard shoulder to a car parked in a multi-storey carpark which autonomously combusts (if this is what happened) with up to 1500 other cars and maybe dozens of people present?
This fire, whether an ICE vehicle or an EV started it, will lead to an enquiry which will look at all aspects of the consequences including the different fire fighting capabilities to extinguish an ICE car fire from an EV one and to the safety of serious car fires in confined car parks
Those who are reacting by calling it a right wing plot or similar are not recognising that incidents like this create regulation which in turn protects the public from danger
It is why I referred to the 1979 Woolworths fire which led to the Furniture and Furnishings Fire Safety Regulation of 1988
This is not political, but is an example of how we should learn from serious incidents and improve for the benefit of all
Will it eck lead to looking at putting out fires. Who's going to spend money on that? We already know how to put fires out. It's just a car fire in a car park. Happens every day. The Luton one was just a bit bigger. You need to calm down, old fella.
There are some fun EV specific issues with putting fires out, which are still fairly new and novel. The vast amounts of water required and the potential for re-ignition are quite a headache in situations were solutions and protocols have been designed around dealing with ICE fires.
I've a friend who does a lot of technical work on lithium ion battery fires. From talking to him, although he's always a bit cagey, I get the impression that a lot of technical people would like to ban EVs from high risk environments such as ferries, but there is massive political pressure not to do so. The politicans fear such a ban would kill EV adoption stone dead because the public would wrongly perceive them as dangerous fire hazards. I think his private view is that at some point there will be a major catastrophe which kills a literal boatload of people, after which "lessons will be learned".
I've detailed above about putting out EV fires. They're a normal car pretty much until the batteries get involved. Then it's showtime, but it's very rare and I never went to one.
Sure - very rare - but it may be very rare while the percentage of cars which are EVs is low. When mass adoption happens will this still be very rare? I'm trying to understand the additional fire risk that EVs entail particularly when parked.
Is there somewhere else PBers can post links/descriptions of murdered women and children? Call me a lily-livered shill if you will , but I find I can be aware of what’s happening without hearing of the detail.
TIA.
We don't agree often but on this I certainly do
I listened to ITV report of the massacre at the Kfar Aza kibbutz and literally wept
I could not relate it to my wife, and whilst we need responsible reporting the tendency to upset is a concern not least for the number of children who may be watching
How many children are “watching PB”?!
I wasn't talking about PB but Sky and BBC
@Anabobazina was talking about PB. He wants us to stop talking about Gaza/israel because it upsets him. Or if we do talk about it we can only do it in very general ways or he gets tearful
It’s fairly ridiculous. Every news and social media is discussing it in depth. Yes it is hard and distressing. But it is the news
I don't get tearful. I just find it ruins PB for me, which I chiefly visit for a) entertainment b) debate and c) betting tips, in that order. Maybe some PBers like this stuff – but in that case they are very different animals to me.
Learn to scroll. Its not hard
Example. I am finding this debate about the relative combustibility of electric vehicles monumentally dull and nerdish. If I had to read all the comments I would weep, like you
But I don’t. As soon as it becomes clear that this is the subject of the comment I scroll and move on. It can be done
I don’t loudly demand that people stop talking about it. Each to their own
I didn't 'loudly demand' anything, I merely made a polite request. Clearly you aren't going to stop posting the stuff, so I'll now politely withdraw.
Oh do chill out.
I tell you what - serious offer - in future I will put WAR COMMENT on top of any comment about the war. Will that do? I mean, I think it’s kinda dumb, but if you or others genuinely get upset by mere words then you will be pre warned and you can scroll?
In non war news, what the feck is wrong with Vanilla?
It now has multiple issues. Photos are nearly always tiny to the point of invisibility. But not always? It sometimes makes me sign in and out, constantly
And the quoting problems are ridiculous. Sometimes it mangles hour old comments and shoves them in an entirely new comment. Why?
It’s becoming frustratingly difficult to use. I blame Elon Musk
Small photos is perhaps full quota, so it thumbnails them.
Is there somewhere else PBers can post links/descriptions of murdered women and children? Call me a lily-livered shill if you will , but I find I can be aware of what’s happening without hearing of the detail.
TIA.
We don't agree often but on this I certainly do
I listened to ITV report of the massacre at the Kfar Aza kibbutz and literally wept
I could not relate it to my wife, and whilst we need responsible reporting the tendency to upset is a concern not least for the number of children who may be watching
How many children are “watching PB”?!
I wasn't talking about PB but Sky and BBC
@Anabobazina was talking about PB. He wants us to stop talking about Gaza/israel because it upsets him. Or if we do talk about it we can only do it in very general ways or he gets tearful
It’s fairly ridiculous. Every news and social media is discussing it in depth. Yes it is hard and distressing. But it is the news
I don't get tearful. I just find it ruins PB for me, which I chiefly visit for a) entertainment b) debate and c) betting tips, in that order. Maybe some PBers like this stuff – but in that case they are very different animals to me.
Learn to scroll. Its not hard
Example. I am finding this debate about the relative combustibility of electric vehicles monumentally dull and nerdish. If I had to read all the comments I would weep, like you
But I don’t. As soon as it becomes clear that this is the subject of the comment I scroll and move on. It can be done
I don’t loudly demand that people stop talking about it. Each to their own
I didn't 'loudly demand' anything, I merely made a polite request. Clearly you aren't going to stop posting the stuff, so I'll now politely withdraw.
Oh do chill out.
I tell you what - serious offer - in future I will put WAR COMMENT on top of any comment about the war. Will that do? I mean, I think it’s kinda dumb, but if you or others genuinely get upset by mere words then you will be pre warned and you can scroll?
I really can’t do much more than that
I didn't ask you to stop posting comments about the war. I ask you (and others) whether they'd consider giving over with the detailed rolling updates of mutilated and murdered women and children. They have refused to, which is their right, of course. Don't shoot me merely for asking.
Is there somewhere else PBers can post links/descriptions of murdered women and children? Call me a lily-livered shill if you will , but I find I can be aware of what’s happening without hearing of the detail.
TIA.
We don't agree often but on this I certainly do
I listened to ITV report of the massacre at the Kfar Aza kibbutz and literally wept
I could not relate it to my wife, and whilst we need responsible reporting the tendency to upset is a concern not least for the number of children who may be watching
How many children are “watching PB”?!
I wasn't talking about PB but Sky and BBC
@Anabobazina was talking about PB. He wants us to stop talking about Gaza/israel because it upsets him. Or if we do talk about it we can only do it in very general ways or he gets tearful
It’s fairly ridiculous. Every news and social media is discussing it in depth. Yes it is hard and distressing. But it is the news
I don't see this issue as really worthy of discussion - all discussing it seems to do is bring a little of the misery and conflict and intractability of the situation into PB. They've been at it for decades; leave them to it. Perhaps when they realise they're not getting any attention, they will stop.
I picture them now in Hamas HQ, southern Gaza
Jihadi 1: Sir, I have terrible news
Hamas commander: Allah preserve us, the Occupiers have finally invaded?
Jihadi 1: No, sir, even worse
Hamas commander: you don’t mean…
Jihadi 1: Aiwa. Yes. They’ve stopped talking about us on Mike Smithson’s politicalbetting.com after complaints from @anabobazina
Hamas commander: and the Welsh guy? Large G? What did he say??
Jihadi 1: Big G sir. He agreed with @Anabobazina and now many of our best militants are in despair
Hamas commander falls silent. The guns outside fade into quiet. Slowly he crumples the map on his desk. End
The take I am hearing from security people is that there will probably be some concern within the Hamas leadership that the operation was so "successful". It is unlikely that they had expected to find the area so poorly defended and have more hostages than they wanted, while triggering a bigger Israeli response than they intended. I have yet to hear any speculation on their likely views on PB.com coverage although no doubt like David Cameron they are avid readers of the site, with a special interest in the EV debate, HS2, luxury vacations and English planning law.
The Luton airport fire demonstrates just how dangerous EVs are. Normal petrol and diesel cars do not have anything flammable - no tanks full of explosive liquids - and so are immune to fire.
Time to Ban EVs. For the children.
I haven't heard anyone suggest evs be banned, and may I say a rather extreme response to an incident that could have implications for evs and how to ensure safety is addressed and even regulated effectively
And what implications if it was a petrol engined car ?
The car park fire in Liverpool in 2018 destroyed a whole car park full of cars. Started by an LPG vehicle, once temperatures got high enough the fire spread from car to car, with one igniting every 30 seconds at the worst and rivers of flaming fuel spreading the conflagration even further.
So yes. I can understand why the blame is being put on EVs this time. There is a risk they might catch fire and be hard to put out...
The anti-EV hysteria from the right is so bad as to actually be funny.
I quite regularly see ICE cars merrily burning away on the hard should because a failed fuel hose pumps benzene all over the hot manifold. E10 bio-ethanol rich petrol eats non compatible (older and generally ULEZ non compliant) vehicle fuel lines. Best to ban all petrol cars and vans I guess.
Did you have concerns about this before EVs were invented?
Are you seriously comparing an easily-extinguished car fire on the hard shoulder to a car parked in a multi-storey carpark which autonomously combusts (if this is what happened) with up to 1500 other cars and maybe dozens of people present?
This fire, whether an ICE vehicle or an EV started it, will lead to an enquiry which will look at all aspects of the consequences including the different fire fighting capabilities to extinguish an ICE car fire from an EV one and to the safety of serious car fires in confined car parks
Those who are reacting by calling it a right wing plot or similar are not recognising that incidents like this create regulation which in turn protects the public from danger
It is why I referred to the 1979 Woolworths fire which led to the Furniture and Furnishings Fire Safety Regulation of 1988
This is not political, but is an example of how we should learn from serious incidents and improve for the benefit of all
Will it eck lead to looking at putting out fires. Who's going to spend money on that? We already know how to put fires out. It's just a car fire in a car park. Happens every day. The Luton one was just a bit bigger. You need to calm down, old fella.
There are some fun EV specific issues with putting fires out, which are still fairly new and novel. The vast amounts of water required and the potential for re-ignition are quite a headache in situations were solutions and protocols have been designed around dealing with ICE fires.
I've a friend who does a lot of technical work on lithium ion battery fires. From talking to him, although he's always a bit cagey, I get the impression that a lot of technical people would like to ban EVs from high risk environments such as ferries, but there is massive political pressure not to do so. The politicans fear such a ban would kill EV adoption stone dead because the public would wrongly perceive them as dangerous fire hazards. I think his private view is that at some point there will be a major catastrophe which kills a literal boatload of people, after which "lessons will be learned".
I've detailed above about putting out EV fires. They're a normal car pretty much until the batteries get involved. Then it's showtime, but it's very rare and I never went to one.
Sure - very rare - but it may be very rare while the percentage of cars which are EVs is low. When mass adoption happens will this still be very rare? I'm trying to understand the additional fire risk that EVs entail particularly when parked.
I can't answer that question, just that I've not heard from any of my colleagues that EVs are a particular problem. Any car well involved in fire is going to spread to combustible material near it. I've been to house fires caused by ICE cars parked on drives.
Is there somewhere else PBers can post links/descriptions of murdered women and children? Call me a lily-livered shill if you will , but I find I can be aware of what’s happening without hearing of the detail.
TIA.
We don't agree often but on this I certainly do
I listened to ITV report of the massacre at the Kfar Aza kibbutz and literally wept
I could not relate it to my wife, and whilst we need responsible reporting the tendency to upset is a concern not least for the number of children who may be watching
How many children are “watching PB”?!
I wasn't talking about PB but Sky and BBC
@Anabobazina was talking about PB. He wants us to stop talking about Gaza/israel because it upsets him. Or if we do talk about it we can only do it in very general ways or he gets tearful
It’s fairly ridiculous. Every news and social media is discussing it in depth. Yes it is hard and distressing. But it is the news
I don't see this issue as really worthy of discussion - all discussing it seems to do is bring a little of the misery and conflict and intractability of the situation into PB. They've been at it for decades; leave them to it. Perhaps when they realise they're not getting any attention, they will stop.
I picture them now in Hamas HQ, southern Gaza
Jihadi 1: Sir, I have terrible news
Hamas commander: Allah preserve us, the Occupiers have finally invaded?
Jihadi 1: No, sir, even worse
Hamas commander: you don’t mean…
Jihadi 1: Aiwa. Yes. They’ve stopped talking about us on Mike Smithson’s politicalbetting.com after complaints from @anabobazina
Hamas commander: and the Welsh guy? Large G? What did he say??
Jihadi 1: Big G sir. He agreed with @Anabobazina and now many of our best militants are in despair
Hamas commander falls silent. The guns outside fade into quiet. Slowly he crumples the map on his desk. End
The take I am hearing from security people is that there will probably be some concern within the Hamas leadership that the operation was so "successful". It is unlikely that they had expected to find the area so poorly defended and have more hostages than they wanted, while triggering a bigger Israeli response than they intended. I have yet to hear any speculation on their likely views on PB.com coverage although no doubt like David Cameron they are avid readers of the site, with a special interest in the EV debate, HS2, luxury vacations and English planning law.
Wes Streeting is a class act. Great speaker and media performer.
There is potentially a mix up to the Brenda on the Street of mixing up Wes Streeting and Gary Streeter. To one's advantage and the other's disadvantage.
The Luton airport fire demonstrates just how dangerous EVs are. Normal petrol and diesel cars do not have anything flammable - no tanks full of explosive liquids - and so are immune to fire.
Time to Ban EVs. For the children.
I haven't heard anyone suggest evs be banned, and may I say a rather extreme response to an incident that could have implications for evs and how to ensure safety is addressed and even regulated effectively
And what implications if it was a petrol engined car ?
The car park fire in Liverpool in 2018 destroyed a whole car park full of cars. Started by an LPG vehicle, once temperatures got high enough the fire spread from car to car, with one igniting every 30 seconds at the worst and rivers of flaming fuel spreading the conflagration even further.
So yes. I can understand why the blame is being put on EVs this time. There is a risk they might catch fire and be hard to put out...
The anti-EV hysteria from the right is so bad as to actually be funny.
I quite regularly see ICE cars merrily burning away on the hard should because a failed fuel hose pumps benzene all over the hot manifold. E10 bio-ethanol rich petrol eats non compatible (older and generally ULEZ non compliant) vehicle fuel lines. Best to ban all petrol cars and vans I guess.
Did you have concerns about this before EVs were invented?
Are you seriously comparing an easily-extinguished car fire on the hard shoulder to a car parked in a multi-storey carpark which autonomously combusts (if this is what happened) with up to 1500 other cars and maybe dozens of people present?
This fire, whether an ICE vehicle or an EV started it, will lead to an enquiry which will look at all aspects of the consequences including the different fire fighting capabilities to extinguish an ICE car fire from an EV one and to the safety of serious car fires in confined car parks
Those who are reacting by calling it a right wing plot or similar are not recognising that incidents like this create regulation which in turn protects the public from danger
It is why I referred to the 1979 Woolworths fire which led to the Furniture and Furnishings Fire Safety Regulation of 1988
This is not political, but is an example of how we should learn from serious incidents and improve for the benefit of all
Will it eck lead to looking at putting out fires. Who's going to spend money on that? We already know how to put fires out. It's just a car fire in a car park. Happens every day. The Luton one was just a bit bigger. You need to calm down, old fella.
There are some fun EV specific issues with putting fires out, which are still fairly new and novel. The vast amounts of water required and the potential for re-ignition are quite a headache in situations were solutions and protocols have been designed around dealing with ICE fires.
I've a friend who does a lot of technical work on lithium ion battery fires. From talking to him, although he's always a bit cagey, I get the impression that a lot of technical people would like to ban EVs from high risk environments such as ferries, but there is massive political pressure not to do so. The politicans fear such a ban would kill EV adoption stone dead because the public would wrongly perceive them as dangerous fire hazards. I think his private view is that at some point there will be a major catastrophe which kills a literal boatload of people, after which "lessons will be learned".
How is a major catastrophe on a ferry due to a fire among petrol/diesel cars prevented?
A good question.
Especially as if one uses sprinklers, and leaves them running for a long time and there isn't efficient scupperage or drainage pumps, you get lots of free surface water, which in quantity is a Very Bad Thing in a ro-ro vehicle deck.
I would expect them to use mist systems in such an environment (also available for homes) which reduce the amount of water by something like 80%, compared to sprinklers.
Turns out there was another brutal massacre on October 7. Kibbutz Be’eri. 100 dead minimum: same procedure - kill every Jew they could, no matter what age
There is one video which just shows the bloody aftermath. A river of blood. I shan’t link
One of the many chilling aspects of these crimes is the way they offer a glimpse of what a brutal pogrom must have been like, or indeed one of the “relatively minor” but hideous atrocities of the Holocaust
In particular I’m reminded of this: the Kovno garage massacre. Click at your discretion
One thing I've learnt this attack is how important scale is for terrorist attacks.
In one respect, it's a huge failure for Hamas. 1:1 victims:terrorists must make it the least efficient attack in history. And they've lost all of their best fighters.
And they are about to lose all the rest
They'll be running out of virgins in paradise.
I imagine the ones they are getting now are the older models - the ones who kept themselves for the "right" man, but never found them, and died aged 80 or so.
The Luton airport fire demonstrates just how dangerous EVs are. Normal petrol and diesel cars do not have anything flammable - no tanks full of explosive liquids - and so are immune to fire.
Time to Ban EVs. For the children.
I haven't heard anyone suggest evs be banned, and may I say a rather extreme response to an incident that could have implications for evs and how to ensure safety is addressed and even regulated effectively
And what implications if it was a petrol engined car ?
The car park fire in Liverpool in 2018 destroyed a whole car park full of cars. Started by an LPG vehicle, once temperatures got high enough the fire spread from car to car, with one igniting every 30 seconds at the worst and rivers of flaming fuel spreading the conflagration even further.
So yes. I can understand why the blame is being put on EVs this time. There is a risk they might catch fire and be hard to put out...
The anti-EV hysteria from the right is so bad as to actually be funny.
I quite regularly see ICE cars merrily burning away on the hard should because a failed fuel hose pumps benzene all over the hot manifold. E10 bio-ethanol rich petrol eats non compatible (older and generally ULEZ non compliant) vehicle fuel lines. Best to ban all petrol cars and vans I guess.
Did you have concerns about this before EVs were invented?
Are you seriously comparing an easily-extinguished car fire on the hard shoulder to a car parked in a multi-storey carpark which autonomously combusts (if this is what happened) with up to 1500 other cars and maybe dozens of people present?
This fire, whether an ICE vehicle or an EV started it, will lead to an enquiry which will look at all aspects of the consequences including the different fire fighting capabilities to extinguish an ICE car fire from an EV one and to the safety of serious car fires in confined car parks
Those who are reacting by calling it a right wing plot or similar are not recognising that incidents like this create regulation which in turn protects the public from danger
It is why I referred to the 1979 Woolworths fire which led to the Furniture and Furnishings Fire Safety Regulation of 1988
This is not political, but is an example of how we should learn from serious incidents and improve for the benefit of all
Will it eck lead to looking at putting out fires. Who's going to spend money on that? We already know how to put fires out. It's just a car fire in a car park. Happens every day. The Luton one was just a bit bigger. You need to calm down, old fella.
There are some fun EV specific issues with putting fires out, which are still fairly new and novel. The vast amounts of water required and the potential for re-ignition are quite a headache in situations were solutions and protocols have been designed around dealing with ICE fires.
I've a friend who does a lot of technical work on lithium ion battery fires. From talking to him, although he's always a bit cagey, I get the impression that a lot of technical people would like to ban EVs from high risk environments such as ferries, but there is massive political pressure not to do so. The politicans fear such a ban would kill EV adoption stone dead because the public would wrongly perceive them as dangerous fire hazards. I think his private view is that at some point there will be a major catastrophe which kills a literal boatload of people, after which "lessons will be learned".
I've detailed above about putting out EV fires. They're a normal car pretty much until the batteries get involved. Then it's showtime, but it's very rare and I never went to one.
Sure - very rare - but it may be very rare while the percentage of cars which are EVs is low. When mass adoption happens will this still be very rare? I'm trying to understand the additional fire risk that EVs entail particularly when parked.
Google it?
“ There were 1529.9 fires per 100k for gas vehicles and just 25.1 fires per 100k sales for electric vehicles.”
Is there somewhere else PBers can post links/descriptions of murdered women and children? Call me a lily-livered shill if you will , but I find I can be aware of what’s happening without hearing of the detail.
TIA.
We don't agree often but on this I certainly do
I listened to ITV report of the massacre at the Kfar Aza kibbutz and literally wept
I could not relate it to my wife, and whilst we need responsible reporting the tendency to upset is a concern not least for the number of children who may be watching
How many children are “watching PB”?!
I wasn't talking about PB but Sky and BBC
@Anabobazina was talking about PB. He wants us to stop talking about Gaza/israel because it upsets him. Or if we do talk about it we can only do it in very general ways or he gets tearful
It’s fairly ridiculous. Every news and social media is discussing it in depth. Yes it is hard and distressing. But it is the news
I don't get tearful. I just find it ruins PB for me, which I chiefly visit for a) entertainment b) debate and c) betting tips, in that order. Maybe some PBers like this stuff – but in that case they are very different animals to me.
The Israel/Palestine situation is (and has been for decades) one of the most important geopolitical dynamics on the planet. It is the home of proxy wars between the Cold War belligerents, and now fulfils a similar purpose, bringing in the Sunni/Shia conflict also. Everyone from Biden to SKS to Hamza Yusuf is engaged.
When there are flashpoints as occurred over the weekend of course we are going to discuss it at length.
I took a break from the subject yesterday as I felt PB was becoming a bit CiF-ish but it is a critically important topic nevertheless. As for the "graphic descriptions" - violence is a tool of conflict and is being used consciously by Hamas wantonly killing festival-goers and perhaps whole families, and by Israel as it levels parts of Gaza.
Hence we discuss it.
At least attempt to the get Humza Yousaf's name right.
Is there somewhere else PBers can post links/descriptions of murdered women and children? Call me a lily-livered shill if you will , but I find I can be aware of what’s happening without hearing of the detail.
TIA.
We don't agree often but on this I certainly do
I listened to ITV report of the massacre at the Kfar Aza kibbutz and literally wept
I could not relate it to my wife, and whilst we need responsible reporting the tendency to upset is a concern not least for the number of children who may be watching
How many children are “watching PB”?!
I wasn't talking about PB but Sky and BBC
@Anabobazina was talking about PB. He wants us to stop talking about Gaza/israel because it upsets him. Or if we do talk about it we can only do it in very general ways or he gets tearful
It’s fairly ridiculous. Every news and social media is discussing it in depth. Yes it is hard and distressing. But it is the news
I don't see this issue as really worthy of discussion - all discussing it seems to do is bring a little of the misery and conflict and intractability of the situation into PB. They've been at it for decades; leave them to it. Perhaps when they realise they're not getting any attention, they will stop.
I picture them now in Hamas HQ, southern Gaza
Jihadi 1: Sir, I have terrible news
Hamas commander: Allah preserve us, the Occupiers have finally invaded?
Jihadi 1: No, sir, even worse
Hamas commander: you don’t mean…
Jihadi 1: Aiwa. Yes. They’ve stopped talking about us on Mike Smithson’s politicalbetting.com after complaints from @anabobazina
Hamas commander: and the Welsh guy? Large G? What did he say??
Jihadi 1: Big G sir. He agreed with @Anabobazina and now many of our best militants are in despair
Hamas commander falls silent. The guns outside fade into quiet. Slowly he crumples the map on his desk. End
The take I am hearing from security people is that there will probably be some concern within the Hamas leadership that the operation was so "successful". It is unlikely that they had expected to find the area so poorly defended and have more hostages than they wanted, while triggering a bigger Israeli response than they intended. I have yet to hear any speculation on their likely views on PB.com coverage although no doubt like David Cameron they are avid readers of the site, with a special interest in the EV debate, HS2, luxury vacations and English planning law.
I wonder if they are already posting here?
If I had to label one commenter as a likely top level Hamas commander it would be @kle4
Always so reasonable and even handed. No one can be that reasonable. Dead giveaway. He's in deep cover and he's reporting back to base in Gaza City, and I suspect that even now he's planning an overnight break out online and, unprovoked, is going to attack @CarlottaVance
Given the extraordinary risk posed by EVs, the government should introduce emergency legislation to impose 20mph limits in all urban areas until they are made safe.
Thanks to BigG for bringing this to our attention.
Is there somewhere else PBers can post links/descriptions of murdered women and children? Call me a lily-livered shill if you will , but I find I can be aware of what’s happening without hearing of the detail.
TIA.
We don't agree often but on this I certainly do
I listened to ITV report of the massacre at the Kfar Aza kibbutz and literally wept
I could not relate it to my wife, and whilst we need responsible reporting the tendency to upset is a concern not least for the number of children who may be watching
How many children are “watching PB”?!
I wasn't talking about PB but Sky and BBC
@Anabobazina was talking about PB. He wants us to stop talking about Gaza/israel because it upsets him. Or if we do talk about it we can only do it in very general ways or he gets tearful
It’s fairly ridiculous. Every news and social media is discussing it in depth. Yes it is hard and distressing. But it is the news
I don't get tearful. I just find it ruins PB for me, which I chiefly visit for a) entertainment b) debate and c) betting tips, in that order. Maybe some PBers like this stuff – but in that case they are very different animals to me.
The Israel/Palestine situation is (and has been for decades) one of the most important geopolitical dynamics on the planet. It is the home of proxy wars between the Cold War belligerents, and now fulfils a similar purpose, bringing in the Sunni/Shia conflict also. Everyone from Biden to SKS to Hamza Yusuf is engaged.
When there are flashpoints as occurred over the weekend of course we are going to discuss it at length.
I took a break from the subject yesterday as I felt PB was becoming a bit CiF-ish but it is a critically important topic nevertheless. As for the "graphic descriptions" - violence is a tool of conflict and is being used consciously by Hamas wantonly killing festival-goers and perhaps whole families, and by Israel as it levels parts of Gaza.
Hence we discuss it.
At least attempt to the get Humza Yousaf's name right.
In non war news, what the feck is wrong with Vanilla?
It now has multiple issues. Photos are nearly always tiny to the point of invisibility. But not always? It sometimes makes me sign in and out, constantly
And the quoting problems are ridiculous. Sometimes it mangles hour old comments and shoves them in an entirely new comment. Why?
It’s becoming frustratingly difficult to use. I blame Elon Musk
Small photos is perhaps full quota, so it thumbnails them.
Is there somewhere else PBers can post links/descriptions of murdered women and children? Call me a lily-livered shill if you will , but I find I can be aware of what’s happening without hearing of the detail.
TIA.
We don't agree often but on this I certainly do
I listened to ITV report of the massacre at the Kfar Aza kibbutz and literally wept
I could not relate it to my wife, and whilst we need responsible reporting the tendency to upset is a concern not least for the number of children who may be watching
How many children are “watching PB”?!
I wasn't talking about PB but Sky and BBC
@Anabobazina was talking about PB. He wants us to stop talking about Gaza/israel because it upsets him. Or if we do talk about it we can only do it in very general ways or he gets tearful
It’s fairly ridiculous. Every news and social media is discussing it in depth. Yes it is hard and distressing. But it is the news
I don't see this issue as really worthy of discussion - all discussing it seems to do is bring a little of the misery and conflict and intractability of the situation into PB. They've been at it for decades; leave them to it. Perhaps when they realise they're not getting any attention, they will stop.
I picture them now in Hamas HQ, southern Gaza
Jihadi 1: Sir, I have terrible news
Hamas commander: Allah preserve us, the Occupiers have finally invaded?
Jihadi 1: No, sir, even worse
Hamas commander: you don’t mean…
Jihadi 1: Aiwa. Yes. They’ve stopped talking about us on Mike Smithson’s politicalbetting.com after complaints from @anabobazina
Hamas commander: and the Welsh guy? Large G? What did he say??
Jihadi 1: Big G sir. He agreed with @Anabobazina and now many of our best militants are in despair
Hamas commander falls silent. The guns outside fade into quiet. Slowly he crumples the map on his desk. End
The take I am hearing from security people is that there will probably be some concern within the Hamas leadership that the operation was so "successful". It is unlikely that they had expected to find the area so poorly defended and have more hostages than they wanted, while triggering a bigger Israeli response than they intended. I have yet to hear any speculation on their likely views on PB.com coverage although no doubt like David Cameron they are avid readers of the site, with a special interest in the EV debate, HS2, luxury vacations and English planning law.
Cycle lanes. Don't forget cycle lanes.
Hmm cycle lanes - an intractable zero sum conflict over space in which both sides fight with religious fervour, bringing out the worst in each other, while there is no solution in sight, only interminable and increasingly angry fighting... I imagine they might want a break from all that.
Turns out there was another brutal massacre on October 7. Kibbutz Be’eri. 100 dead minimum: same procedure - kill every Jew they could, no matter what age
There is one video which just shows the bloody aftermath. A river of blood. I shan’t link
One of the many chilling aspects of these crimes is the way they offer a glimpse of what a brutal pogrom must have been like, or indeed one of the “relatively minor” but hideous atrocities of the Holocaust
In particular I’m reminded of this: the Kovno garage massacre. Click at your discretion
One thing I've learnt this attack is how important scale is for terrorist attacks.
In one respect, it's a huge failure for Hamas. 1:1 victims:terrorists must make it the least efficient attack in history. And they've lost all of their best fighters.
And they are about to lose all the rest
They'll be running out of virgins in paradise.
I imagine the ones they are getting now are the older models - the ones who kept themselves for the "right" man, but never found them, and died aged 80 or so.
Is it really so important that our leading politicians are a bit of a giggle? It's not what I look for, I must admit, but perhaps I'm an outlier.
It’s an asset in campaigning to be relatively charismatic. It probably helps in negotiating too. Obviously you are trivialising it as “a bit of a giggle” to downplay it as your man doesn’t have much charisma; luckily enough, neither does his opponent now, so that weakness is nullified.
Yes but campaigning is about getting the job. What kinabalu is talking about is actually doing the job.
Can we really say that the most charismatic PMs of the last 70 years have been the best? Even someone like Thatcher was not exactly the life and soul of the party.
I think the country is ready for boring for a while. Whether they are ready for Labour policies is another matter but we will just have to see how that goes and hope for the best.
'Spreadsheet Phil' was a boring Chancellor - he was also one of the worst ever. Theresa May was a boring PM - she was also one of the worst ever. Lack of charisma should not be confused with capability.
Is there somewhere else PBers can post links/descriptions of murdered women and children? Call me a lily-livered shill if you will , but I find I can be aware of what’s happening without hearing of the detail.
TIA.
We don't agree often but on this I certainly do
I listened to ITV report of the massacre at the Kfar Aza kibbutz and literally wept
I could not relate it to my wife, and whilst we need responsible reporting the tendency to upset is a concern not least for the number of children who may be watching
How many children are “watching PB”?!
I wasn't talking about PB but Sky and BBC
@Anabobazina was talking about PB. He wants us to stop talking about Gaza/israel because it upsets him. Or if we do talk about it we can only do it in very general ways or he gets tearful
It’s fairly ridiculous. Every news and social media is discussing it in depth. Yes it is hard and distressing. But it is the news
I don't get tearful. I just find it ruins PB for me, which I chiefly visit for a) entertainment b) debate and c) betting tips, in that order. Maybe some PBers like this stuff – but in that case they are very different animals to me.
The Israel/Palestine situation is (and has been for decades) one of the most important geopolitical dynamics on the planet. It is the home of proxy wars between the Cold War belligerents, and now fulfils a similar purpose, bringing in the Sunni/Shia conflict also. Everyone from Biden to SKS to Hamza Yusuf is engaged.
When there are flashpoints as occurred over the weekend of course we are going to discuss it at length.
I took a break from the subject yesterday as I felt PB was becoming a bit CiF-ish but it is a critically important topic nevertheless. As for the "graphic descriptions" - violence is a tool of conflict and is being used consciously by Hamas wantonly killing festival-goers and perhaps whole families, and by Israel as it levels parts of Gaza.
Hence we discuss it.
WAR COMMENT
Not only that, the Arab Israeli conflict has now entered an entirely new phase. This isn't, despite comments here, the same old same old. Israel has been attacked in a form it has not known for 50 years or more. More Israelis/Jews have died in a single day than at any point since the Holocaust. In the next days weeks months, it is possible we will see some final resolution of this issue, and maybe in the most horrible way - and this is in part because of the hideous violence witnessed these last days
It is ALSO quite possible this will lead to a wider war in the region, involving Iran, which could in turn engulf the world
So I suggest it is worth talking about, almost as much as the low-medium risk of fires in airport car parks from unstable electric vehicles
Perhaps, and I know this is an outlandish scheme but hear me out, they could operate it as a venue where people can come and buy a selection of ales and other beverages, as well as light snacks, for consumption on the premises?
'Boring but Stable' reminds me of Theresa May between Cameron's departure and the 2017 election.
May's premature apotheosis was quite extraordinary. One evening as I recall the Number 10 spin team shut up shop for the night - let the Labour party destroy itself, we'll enjoy the show, seemed to be the attitude. In retrospect this seems supremely hubristic as she then went on nearly to lose to Jeremy Corbyn and from that moment her power immediately drained away.
I am taking for granted at this point that Starmer will be Prime Minister after the next election, but it is impossible to tell when the bubble bursts. I presume that his relative popularity will last longer than Theresa May's did. Nevertheless, there are two types of politician: those who are helpless prisoners of events, and those who mistakenly believe they are not helpless prisoners of events.
The Luton airport fire demonstrates just how dangerous EVs are. Normal petrol and diesel cars do not have anything flammable - no tanks full of explosive liquids - and so are immune to fire.
Time to Ban EVs. For the children.
I haven't heard anyone suggest evs be banned, and may I say a rather extreme response to an incident that could have implications for evs and how to ensure safety is addressed and even regulated effectively
And what implications if it was a petrol engined car ?
The car park fire in Liverpool in 2018 destroyed a whole car park full of cars. Started by an LPG vehicle, once temperatures got high enough the fire spread from car to car, with one igniting every 30 seconds at the worst and rivers of flaming fuel spreading the conflagration even further.
So yes. I can understand why the blame is being put on EVs this time. There is a risk they might catch fire and be hard to put out...
The anti-EV hysteria from the right is so bad as to actually be funny.
I quite regularly see ICE cars merrily burning away on the hard should because a failed fuel hose pumps benzene all over the hot manifold. E10 bio-ethanol rich petrol eats non compatible (older and generally ULEZ non compliant) vehicle fuel lines. Best to ban all petrol cars and vans I guess.
Did you have concerns about this before EVs were invented?
Are you seriously comparing an easily-extinguished car fire on the hard shoulder to a car parked in a multi-storey carpark which autonomously combusts (if this is what happened) with up to 1500 other cars and maybe dozens of people present?
This fire, whether an ICE vehicle or an EV started it, will lead to an enquiry which will look at all aspects of the consequences including the different fire fighting capabilities to extinguish an ICE car fire from an EV one and to the safety of serious car fires in confined car parks
Those who are reacting by calling it a right wing plot or similar are not recognising that incidents like this create regulation which in turn protects the public from danger
It is why I referred to the 1979 Woolworths fire which led to the Furniture and Furnishings Fire Safety Regulation of 1988
This is not political, but is an example of how we should learn from serious incidents and improve for the benefit of all
Will it eck lead to looking at putting out fires. Who's going to spend money on that? We already know how to put fires out. It's just a car fire in a car park. Happens every day. The Luton one was just a bit bigger. You need to calm down, old fella.
There are some fun EV specific issues with putting fires out, which are still fairly new and novel. The vast amounts of water required and the potential for re-ignition are quite a headache in situations were solutions and protocols have been designed around dealing with ICE fires.
I've a friend who does a lot of technical work on lithium ion battery fires. From talking to him, although he's always a bit cagey, I get the impression that a lot of technical people would like to ban EVs from high risk environments such as ferries, but there is massive political pressure not to do so. The politicans fear such a ban would kill EV adoption stone dead because the public would wrongly perceive them as dangerous fire hazards. I think his private view is that at some point there will be a major catastrophe which kills a literal boatload of people, after which "lessons will be learned".
I've detailed above about putting out EV fires. They're a normal car pretty much until the batteries get involved. Then it's showtime, but it's very rare and I never went to one.
Sure - very rare - but it may be very rare while the percentage of cars which are EVs is low. When mass adoption happens will this still be very rare? I'm trying to understand the additional fire risk that EVs entail particularly when parked.
Google it?
“ There were 1529.9 fires per 100k for gas vehicles and just 25.1 fires per 100k sales for electric vehicles.”
This where PB is good. It's taken 5 minutes for someone to Google the stats and a retired firefighter to thoroughly debunk yet another anti-woke scare story.
Is there somewhere else PBers can post links/descriptions of murdered women and children? Call me a lily-livered shill if you will , but I find I can be aware of what’s happening without hearing of the detail.
TIA.
We don't agree often but on this I certainly do
I listened to ITV report of the massacre at the Kfar Aza kibbutz and literally wept
I could not relate it to my wife, and whilst we need responsible reporting the tendency to upset is a concern not least for the number of children who may be watching
How many children are “watching PB”?!
I wasn't talking about PB but Sky and BBC
@Anabobazina was talking about PB. He wants us to stop talking about Gaza/israel because it upsets him. Or if we do talk about it we can only do it in very general ways or he gets tearful
It’s fairly ridiculous. Every news and social media is discussing it in depth. Yes it is hard and distressing. But it is the news
I don't get tearful. I just find it ruins PB for me, which I chiefly visit for a) entertainment b) debate and c) betting tips, in that order. Maybe some PBers like this stuff – but in that case they are very different animals to me.
Learn to scroll. Its not hard
Example. I am finding this debate about the relative combustibility of electric vehicles monumentally dull and nerdish. If I had to read all the comments I would weep, like you
But I don’t. As soon as it becomes clear that this is the subject of the comment I scroll and move on. It can be done
I don’t loudly demand that people stop talking about it. Each to their own
I didn't 'loudly demand' anything, I merely made a polite request. Clearly you aren't going to stop posting the stuff, so I'll now politely withdraw.
Oh do chill out.
I tell you what - serious offer - in future I will put WAR COMMENT on top of any comment about the war. Will that do? I mean, I think it’s kinda dumb, but if you or others genuinely get upset by mere words then you will be pre warned and you can scroll?
I really can’t do much more than that
I didn't ask you to stop posting comments about the war. I ask you (and others) whether they'd consider giving over with the detailed rolling updates of mutilated and murdered women and children. They have refused to, which is their right, of course. Don't shoot me merely for asking.
You're quie right. I have over 30 close relatives there and the only way I knew they were OK wihout calling my sister was because I knew they wouldn' have been at a rave. Neiher would hey have been in he army. Then yesterday I heard one was a soldier who was missing. Its very complicaed and while Israel have Fascists in heir government -one as minister of homeland securiy -talking abou arociies in graphic deail is jus prurien....
Perhaps, and I know this is an outlandish scheme but hear me out, they could operate it as a venue where people can come and buy a selection of ales and other beverages, as well as light snacks, for consumption on the premises?
It's a lot easier to cross St Giles these days, too. Hardly any traffic at all. The B&B must have lost a few regulars in the past crossing six lanes of speeding 'motorists'. In Oxford the war against cars has been fought and won.
Is there somewhere else PBers can post links/descriptions of murdered women and children? Call me a lily-livered shill if you will , but I find I can be aware of what’s happening without hearing of the detail.
TIA.
We don't agree often but on this I certainly do
I listened to ITV report of the massacre at the Kfar Aza kibbutz and literally wept
I could not relate it to my wife, and whilst we need responsible reporting the tendency to upset is a concern not least for the number of children who may be watching
How many children are “watching PB”?!
I wasn't talking about PB but Sky and BBC
@Anabobazina was talking about PB. He wants us to stop talking about Gaza/israel because it upsets him. Or if we do talk about it we can only do it in very general ways or he gets tearful
It’s fairly ridiculous. Every news and social media is discussing it in depth. Yes it is hard and distressing. But it is the news
I don't get tearful. I just find it ruins PB for me, which I chiefly visit for a) entertainment b) debate and c) betting tips, in that order. Maybe some PBers like this stuff – but in that case they are very different animals to me.
Learn to scroll. Its not hard
Example. I am finding this debate about the relative combustibility of electric vehicles monumentally dull and nerdish. If I had to read all the comments I would weep, like you
But I don’t. As soon as it becomes clear that this is the subject of the comment I scroll and move on. It can be done
I don’t loudly demand that people stop talking about it. Each to their own
I didn't 'loudly demand' anything, I merely made a polite request. Clearly you aren't going to stop posting the stuff, so I'll now politely withdraw.
Oh do chill out.
I tell you what - serious offer - in future I will put WAR COMMENT on top of any comment about the war. Will that do? I mean, I think it’s kinda dumb, but if you or others genuinely get upset by mere words then you will be pre warned and you can scroll?
I really can’t do much more than that
I didn't ask you to stop posting comments about the war. I ask you (and others) whether they'd consider giving over with the detailed rolling updates of mutilated and murdered women and children. They have refused to, which is their right, of course. Don't shoot me merely for asking.
You're quie right. I have over 30 close relatives there and the only way I knew they were OK wihout calling my sister was because I knew they wouldn' have been at a rave. Neiher would hey have been in he army. Then yesterday I heard one was a soldier who was missing. Its very complicaed and while Israel have Fascists in heir government -one as minister of homeland securiy -talking abou arociies in graphic deail is jus prurien....
In non war news, what the feck is wrong with Vanilla?
It now has multiple issues. Photos are nearly always tiny to the point of invisibility. But not always? It sometimes makes me sign in and out, constantly
And the quoting problems are ridiculous. Sometimes it mangles hour old comments and shoves them in an entirely new comment. Why?
It’s becoming frustratingly difficult to use. I blame Elon Musk
Small photos is perhaps full quota, so it thumbnails them.
What does "full quota" mean?
There will likely be X amount of space allowed on the rented server for PB.COM. That is the 'quota', which has been filled by people like you and me posting piccies.
When that space is full you delete some to free up space, or get more space, or make older pictures from years ago smaller. A coping measure is to shrink new pictures down by size into thumbnails,
Though sometimes there is no quota as part of the package.
Is there somewhere else PBers can post links/descriptions of murdered women and children? Call me a lily-livered shill if you will , but I find I can be aware of what’s happening without hearing of the detail.
TIA.
We don't agree often but on this I certainly do
I listened to ITV report of the massacre at the Kfar Aza kibbutz and literally wept
I could not relate it to my wife, and whilst we need responsible reporting the tendency to upset is a concern not least for the number of children who may be watching
How many children are “watching PB”?!
I wasn't talking about PB but Sky and BBC
@Anabobazina was talking about PB. He wants us to stop talking about Gaza/israel because it upsets him. Or if we do talk about it we can only do it in very general ways or he gets tearful
It’s fairly ridiculous. Every news and social media is discussing it in depth. Yes it is hard and distressing. But it is the news
I don't get tearful. I just find it ruins PB for me, which I chiefly visit for a) entertainment b) debate and c) betting tips, in that order. Maybe some PBers like this stuff – but in that case they are very different animals to me.
The Israel/Palestine situation is (and has been for decades) one of the most important geopolitical dynamics on the planet. It is the home of proxy wars between the Cold War belligerents, and now fulfils a similar purpose, bringing in the Sunni/Shia conflict also. Everyone from Biden to SKS to Hamza Yusuf is engaged.
When there are flashpoints as occurred over the weekend of course we are going to discuss it at length.
I took a break from the subject yesterday as I felt PB was becoming a bit CiF-ish but it is a critically important topic nevertheless. As for the "graphic descriptions" - violence is a tool of conflict and is being used consciously by Hamas wantonly killing festival-goers and perhaps whole families, and by Israel as it levels parts of Gaza.
Hence we discuss it.
WAR COMMENT
Not only that, the Arab Israeli conflict has now entered an entirely new phase. This isn't, despite comments here, the same old same old. Israel has been attacked in a form it has not known for 50 years or more. More Israelis/Jews have died in a single day than at any point since the Holocaust. In the next days weeks months, it is possible we will see some final resolution of this issue, and maybe in the most horrible way - and this is in part because of the hideous violence witnessed these last days
It is ALSO quite possible this will lead to a wider war in the region, involving Iran, which could in turn engulf the world
So I suggest it is worth talking about, almost as much as the low-medium risk of fires in airport car parks from unstable electric vehicles
In non war news, what the feck is wrong with Vanilla?
It now has multiple issues. Photos are nearly always tiny to the point of invisibility. But not always? It sometimes makes me sign in and out, constantly
And the quoting problems are ridiculous. Sometimes it mangles hour old comments and shoves them in an entirely new comment. Why?
It’s becoming frustratingly difficult to use. I blame Elon Musk
Small photos is perhaps full quota, so it thumbnails them.
What does "full quota" mean?
There will likely be X amount of space allowed on the rented server for PB.COM. That is the 'quota', which has been filled by people like you and me posting piccies.
When that space is full you delete some to free up space, or get more space, or make older pictures from years ago smaller. A coping measure is to shrink new pictures down by size into thumbnails,
Though sometimes there is no quota as part of the package.
Ah. Thanks. I imagined it was something like that but now I am fully apprised
On the radio just now there was a headline news story about a parked diesel car causing a fire in a car park in Luton. Don’t know if this is important info for anyone here.
One of the asylum seeker claimants, ASM, is bringing a completely separate argument that the Rwanda deal is unlawful because the UK retained EU law making it unlawful to remove asylum seekers to a country they have no connection to
Supreme Court president Lord Reed kindly explains for those following the case that if the claimant is "right about this it’s a knock-out blow"
It "includes all cases in which a notice of intent [to send people to Rwanda] has already been served", which is tens of thousands
The issue now being considered is that EU law bans the removal of asylum seekers to countries where they have no previous connection. None of the claimants have a connection to Rwanda
The argument is that the relevant Procedures Directive has been retained in UK law since Brexit
Is there somewhere else PBers can post links/descriptions of murdered women and children? Call me a lily-livered shill if you will , but I find I can be aware of what’s happening without hearing of the detail.
TIA.
We don't agree often but on this I certainly do
I listened to ITV report of the massacre at the Kfar Aza kibbutz and literally wept
I could not relate it to my wife, and whilst we need responsible reporting the tendency to upset is a concern not least for the number of children who may be watching
How many children are “watching PB”?!
I wasn't talking about PB but Sky and BBC
@Anabobazina was talking about PB. He wants us to stop talking about Gaza/israel because it upsets him. Or if we do talk about it we can only do it in very general ways or he gets tearful
It’s fairly ridiculous. Every news and social media is discussing it in depth. Yes it is hard and distressing. But it is the news
I don't get tearful. I just find it ruins PB for me, which I chiefly visit for a) entertainment b) debate and c) betting tips, in that order. Maybe some PBers like this stuff – but in that case they are very different animals to me.
The Israel/Palestine situation is (and has been for decades) one of the most important geopolitical dynamics on the planet. It is the home of proxy wars between the Cold War belligerents, and now fulfils a similar purpose, bringing in the Sunni/Shia conflict also. Everyone from Biden to SKS to Hamza Yusuf is engaged.
When there are flashpoints as occurred over the weekend of course we are going to discuss it at length.
I took a break from the subject yesterday as I felt PB was becoming a bit CiF-ish but it is a critically important topic nevertheless. As for the "graphic descriptions" - violence is a tool of conflict and is being used consciously by Hamas wantonly killing festival-goers and perhaps whole families, and by Israel as it levels parts of Gaza.
Hence we discuss it.
WAR COMMENT
Not only that, the Arab Israeli conflict has now entered an entirely new phase. This isn't, despite comments here, the same old same old. Israel has been attacked in a form it has not known for 50 years or more. More Israelis/Jews have died in a single day than at any point since the Holocaust. In the next days weeks months, it is possible we will see some final resolution of this issue, and maybe in the most horrible way - and this is in part because of the hideous violence witnessed these last days
It is ALSO quite possible this will lead to a wider war in the region, involving Iran, which could in turn engulf the world
So I suggest it is worth talking about, almost as much as the low-medium risk of fires in airport car parks from unstable electric vehicles
My occasionally highlighting of dodgy vehicle sales on FB marketplace has broken big time (*sarcasm*), currently being discussed on R4’s You and Yours, thousands of scam listings apparently.
No doubt this news will cause a ripple throughout the Middle East.
If you want a laugh (or a cry), have a look at the Socialist Worker website.
This is how they describe the events of 7th October.
"That was just as Hamas fighters were defeating their oppressors."
People often use violent rhetoric for emphasis, off-hand comments about who will be "first up against the wall". But I rather think there are quite a few who mean it literally within the SWP.
My occasionally highlighting of dodgy vehicle sales on FB marketplace has broken big time (*sarcasm*), currently being discussed on R4’s You and Yours, thousands of scam listings apparently.
No doubt this news will cause a ripple throughout the Middle East.
If Cruella's Rwanda plan is ruled unlawful, can Richi sack her to show his strong man credentials, or does he have to keep her so she doesn't steal his lunch money?
One of the asylum seeker claimants, ASM, is bringing a completely separate argument that the Rwanda deal is unlawful because the UK retained EU law making it unlawful to remove asylum seekers to a country they have no connection to
Supreme Court president Lord Reed kindly explains for those following the case that if the claimant is "right about this it’s a knock-out blow"
It "includes all cases in which a notice of intent [to send people to Rwanda] has already been served", which is tens of thousands
The issue now being considered is that EU law bans the removal of asylum seekers to countries where they have no previous connection. None of the claimants have a connection to Rwanda
The argument is that the relevant Procedures Directive has been retained in UK law since Brexit
'Boring but Stable' reminds me of Theresa May between Cameron's departure and the 2017 election.
May's premature apotheosis was quite extraordinary. One evening as I recall the Number 10 spin team shut up shop for the night - let the Labour party destroy itself, we'll enjoy the show, seemed to be the attitude. In retrospect this seems supremely hubristic as she then went on nearly to lose to Jeremy Corbyn and from that moment her power immediately drained away.
I am taking for granted at this point that Starmer will be Prime Minister after the next election, but it is impossible to tell when the bubble bursts. I presume that his relative popularity will last longer than Theresa May's did. Nevertheless, there are two types of politician: those who are helpless prisoners of events, and those who mistakenly believe they are not helpless prisoners of events.
I think it is a pertinent point that twice in recent political history new PMs succeeding ‘charismatic’ old ones have tried to make a positive of their dull, dutiful manners. Both have had initial success in doing so, before taking a nosedive in popularity. I am of course referring to May and Gordon Brown.
There is an argument that the public don’t really want a dull dutiful type in Number 10 but a charming charismatic figure who can convincingly tell them what they want to hear. To that end I do suspect that Starmer’s ‘dullness’ will eventually become a liability rather than an asset.
However I, like you, think he is likely to have a much longer honeymoon than Brown and May did. For one thing, he is coming in as the first PM of a new party in power, which Brown and May were not. Secondly, in replacing Sunak he is not replacing anyone with any tremendous political charisma/skill (Sunak has ‘it’ - superficially - but can’t land the delivery in the same way as Blair and Cameron could), so there is not an immediate comparison to make. Thirdly he is going to get the credit for pretty much anything that goes right in his first 2-3 years in power while he can blame bad news on the Tory hangover - this will sustain him.
I do not ascribe to the view of many on here that the wheels could fall off the Labour bandwagon very early on the basis that the situation they inherit is bad. People predicted that this would happen when the Tories took over from Brown, but Cameron proved remarkably resilient in office. I do think it’s plausible that Starmer fails to get a grip on the situation and eventually after 4 or 5 years loses a majority to a Tory Party who has somehow managed to get its act together. But we are now looking very far into the future and it is extremely uncertain.
I do think it’s plausible that Starmer fails to get a grip on the situation and eventually after 4 or 5 years loses a majority to a Tory Party who has somehow managed to get its act together. But we are now looking very far into the future and it is extremely uncertain.
The next act of the UKIP Tory Party is going to make Corbyn look like a missed opportunity...
I do think it’s plausible that Starmer fails to get a grip on the situation and eventually after 4 or 5 years loses a majority to a Tory Party who has somehow managed to get its act together. But we are now looking very far into the future and it is extremely uncertain.
The next act of the UKIP Tory Party is going to make Corbyn look like a missed opportunity...
I suspect you are right. Still, stranger things have happened.
Comments
I'm wary of case data - the significance is only really impact on hopsitals, especially as we go into winter. And once again we will have many people with covid NOT as the primary reason for hospitalization.
But - above and beyond my snaps of champagne bottles next to banyan trees - the inability to post proper sized images is a drag
Look at that news clip about the Starmer protester @TSE has just posted. It’s microscopic. You have to get special lenses to read it
This is a shame. We used to be able to illustrate comments visually. Now we can’t
This is an effect of armouring the pack to protect it from damage, and protect the passengers in the vehicle from any fire.
Not the virgins these chaps are expecting...
I always point out to him that as a Chartered Accountant, I enjoy more respect from the public than he ever will :-)
I suspect, and don't blame him, that he thinks he can earn more money as I lawyer that I ever have as an accountant, perhaps that might go some way to proving my point!
https://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/23619982.exciting-changes-move-closer-oxford-eagle-child-pub/
There will be an enquiry - and the correct body is probably the HSE - recommendations, and some changes of practice to reflect the different risks in the changed mix of vehicles. It will also I think address the design / build of the car park, which will be done to recent standards. Which is all fine and normal.
We can't really say any more until we have a professional analysis of the causes and progress of the fire.
It is political because elements, mainly of the political right, *are* weaponising these questions, and the current Govt see shouting about the fictional 'war on motorists' as one of the last straws they can grasp at. Credible candidates for Hail Mary passes are in increasingly short supply !
Someone asked about car parking spaces and spacing. I think any dimensions of car parking spaces are far smaller than potential fire spread distances. But it's correct that vehicles are larger and heavier, whilst advised standard sizes for parking spaces have not increased.
In keeping my eye on video reports, I'm seeing occasional examples of large 17ft-20ft long 7.5-8ft wide tonka-trucks imported from the USA getting tickets for using multiple, or disabled or family, spaces. Some of the behemoth purveyors even have networks of dealers here, now.
It wasn’t her normal conversational manner as watching any interview with her will demonstrate. Weirdly, Anderson seemed to decide to portray her as if she talked like her conference speeches all day, every day.
Streep did a much better job at getting the essence right - though that film had an awful lot of issues too.
But lots of houses have internal garages (albeit probably too small these days for the Morningside/Mayfair Sturmmannschaftkraftwagens anyway). And I've never heard of insurers complaining about cars parked in them. Perhaps the spare petrol can is more of a risk.
I picture them now in Hamas HQ, southern Gaza
Jihadi 1: Sir, I have terrible news
Hamas commander: Allah preserve us, the Occupiers have finally invaded?
Jihadi 1: No, sir, even worse
Hamas commander: you don’t mean…
Jihadi 1: Aiwa. Yes. They’ve stopped talking about us on Mike Smithson’s politicalbetting.com after complaints from @anabobazina
Hamas commander: and the Welsh guy? Large G? What did he say??
Jihadi 1: Big G sir. He agreed with @Anabobazina and now many of our best militants are in despair
Hamas commander falls silent. The guns outside fade into quiet. Slowly he crumples the map on his desk. End
Example. I am finding this debate about the relative combustibility of electric vehicles monumentally dull and nerdish. If I had to read all the comments I would weep, like you
But I don’t. As soon as it becomes clear that this is the subject of the comment I scroll and move on. It can be done
I don’t loudly demand that people stop talking about it. Each to their own
https://www.thenational.scot/news/18908231.police-investigate-car-deliberately-torched-outside-home-labour-msp/
There's a joke about monkey and spanking to be made here !!!!
Especially as if one uses sprinklers, and leaves them running for a long time and there isn't efficient scupperage or drainage pumps, you get lots of free surface water, which in quantity is a Very Bad Thing in a ro-ro vehicle deck.
When there are flashpoints as occurred over the weekend of course we are going to discuss it at length.
I took a break from the subject yesterday as I felt PB was becoming a bit CiF-ish but it is a critically important topic nevertheless. As for the "graphic descriptions" - violence is a tool of conflict and is being used consciously by Hamas wantonly killing festival-goers and perhaps whole families, and by Israel as it levels parts of Gaza.
Hence we discuss it.
I tell you what - serious offer - in future I will put WAR COMMENT on top of any comment about the war. Will that do? I mean, I think it’s kinda dumb, but if you or others genuinely get upset by mere words then you will be pre warned and you can scroll?
I really can’t do much more than that
Wes Streeting is a class act. Great speaker and media performer.
https://x.com/khamenei_ir/status/1711793254243475652
“ There were 1529.9 fires per 100k for gas vehicles and just 25.1 fires per 100k sales for electric vehicles.”
https://www.autoweek.com/news/a38225037/how-much-you-should-worry-about-ev-fires/
If I had to label one commenter as a likely top level Hamas commander it would be @kle4
Always so reasonable and even handed. No one can be that reasonable. Dead giveaway. He's in deep cover and he's reporting back to base in Gaza City, and I suspect that even now he's planning an overnight break out online and, unprovoked, is going to attack @CarlottaVance
Thanks to BigG for bringing this to our attention.
Not only that, the Arab Israeli conflict has now entered an entirely new phase. This isn't, despite comments here, the same old same old. Israel has been attacked in a form it has not known for 50 years or more. More Israelis/Jews have died in a single day than at any point since the Holocaust. In the next days weeks months, it is possible we will see some final resolution of this issue, and maybe in the most horrible way - and this is in part because of the hideous violence witnessed these last days
It is ALSO quite possible this will lead to a wider war in the region, involving Iran, which could in turn engulf the world
So I suggest it is worth talking about, almost as much as the low-medium risk of fires in airport car parks from unstable electric vehicles
I wonder (not really) if this unconditional retraction and apology is off her own bat or was induced by a letter?
May's premature apotheosis was quite extraordinary. One evening as I recall the Number 10 spin team shut up shop for the night - let the Labour party destroy itself, we'll enjoy the show, seemed to be the attitude. In retrospect this seems supremely hubristic as she then went on nearly to lose to Jeremy Corbyn and from that moment her power immediately drained away.
I am taking for granted at this point that Starmer will be Prime Minister after the next election, but it is impossible to tell when the bubble bursts. I presume that his relative popularity will last longer than Theresa May's did. Nevertheless, there are two types of politician: those who are helpless prisoners of events, and those who mistakenly believe they are not helpless prisoners of events.
I'm missing a leer on my keyboard. Sorry
When that space is full you delete some to free up space, or get more space, or make older pictures from years ago smaller. A coping measure is to shrink new pictures down by size into thumbnails,
Though sometimes there is no quota as part of the package.
https://www.thefp.com/p/gaza-hostage-crisis-is-an-american-crisis
The thumbnailing is oddly random
Anyway…
Wouldn't have happened with ULEZ
🚨COMPLETELY NEW ARGUMENT KLAXON🚨
One of the asylum seeker claimants, ASM, is bringing a completely separate argument that the Rwanda deal is unlawful because the UK retained EU law making it unlawful to remove asylum seekers to a country they have no connection to
Supreme Court president Lord Reed kindly explains for those following the case that if the claimant is "right about this it’s a knock-out blow"
It "includes all cases in which a notice of intent [to send people to Rwanda] has already been served", which is tens of thousands
The issue now being considered is that EU law bans the removal of asylum seekers to countries where they have no previous connection. None of the claimants have a connection to Rwanda
The argument is that the relevant Procedures Directive has been retained in UK law since Brexit
No doubt this news will cause a ripple throughout the Middle East.
"That was just as Hamas fighters were defeating their oppressors."
People often use violent rhetoric for emphasis, off-hand comments about who will be "first up against the wall". But I rather think there are quite a few who mean it literally within the SWP.
I'm just off to make some tea
There is an argument that the public don’t really want a dull dutiful type in Number 10 but a charming charismatic figure who can convincingly tell them what they want to hear. To that end I do suspect that Starmer’s ‘dullness’ will eventually become a liability rather than an asset.
However I, like you, think he is likely to have a much longer honeymoon than Brown and May did. For one thing, he is coming in as the first PM of a new party in power, which Brown and May were not. Secondly, in replacing Sunak he is not replacing anyone with any tremendous political charisma/skill (Sunak has ‘it’ - superficially - but can’t land the delivery in the same way as Blair and Cameron could), so there is not an immediate comparison to make. Thirdly he is going to get the credit for pretty much anything that goes right in his first 2-3 years in power while he can blame bad news on the Tory hangover - this will sustain him.
I do not ascribe to the view of many on here that the wheels could fall off the Labour bandwagon very early on the basis that the situation they inherit is bad. People predicted that this would happen when the Tories took over from Brown, but Cameron proved remarkably resilient in office. I do think it’s plausible that Starmer fails to get a grip on the situation and eventually after 4 or 5 years loses a majority to a Tory Party who has somehow managed to get its act together. But we are now looking very far into the future and it is extremely uncertain.
UKIPTory Party is going to make Corbyn look like a missed opportunity...Don't spare us the harrowing details. If you do put sugar in your tea, I think I can bear to hear about it.