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The 2024 White House Race – the latest betting – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,608
edited August 2023 in General
imageThe 2024 White Race – the latest betting – politicalbetting.com

Thanks to the Smarkets betting exchange for their latest betting prices on the November 2024 White Race.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • eekeek Posts: 30,856
    First which Biden will be if Trump is the opponent.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,402
    Second like Trump!
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,314
    Keir Starmer trying to score political points over the Letby case seems ill-judged.

    https://twitter.com/Keir_Starmer/status/1693624227600179583
  • CookieCookie Posts: 15,739
    Should this be 'The White House Race' rather than 'The White Race'?
  • TimSTimS Posts: 15,759
    williamglenn said:

    Keir Starmer trying to score political points over the Letby case seems ill-judged.

    https://twitter.com/Keir_Starmer/status/1693624227600179583

    It does, though, blunt any planned Tory political point scoring about the case. Though the scope for point scoring on any side is limited here: there seems to be cross-party agreement on the hospital failings that led to this, she got a whole life tariff so there's not a sentencing angle (short of threatening the death penalty) and she is not in a minority / migrant group where dogwhistling would be an option.
  • eekeek Posts: 30,856
    williamglenn said:

    Keir Starmer trying to score political points over the Letby case seems ill-judged.

    https://twitter.com/Keir_Starmer/status/1693624227600179583

    It's the second / third case where because sentencing is televised it's delayed so the prisoner decides not to attend.

    I suspect the real fix is very different from the one being suggested which appears to be drag the prisoner kicking and screaming from the prison cell into a van into a holding room and finally into court
  • CorrectHorseBatCorrectHorseBat Posts: 1,761
    If Rishi Sunak had said what SKS said the Tories would be saying what a good idea it is.

    In my view SKS is right but his timing is terrible. Poor effort SKS
  • kjhkjh Posts: 12,989
    Surrey County Council demonstrating total incompetence. Popped down to the pub and the road was closed. These things happen. Stuff has to be fixed. So I went in the opposite direction to find the road closed that way also. OK must be an emergency then. But no I went on the Surrey County Council web site and both closures were scheduled for the same day.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,146
    Vivek Ramaswarmy is not going to like being told he’s in “the white race”.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 19,315
    CorrectHorseBat said:

    If Rishi Sunak had said what SKS said the Tories would be saying what a good idea it is.

    In my view SKS is right but his timing is terrible. Poor effort SKS

    No, because the right (true, governmental) answer is to say "that's understandable, but impossible". But the electorate wouldn't reward any politician who said that, so no politician can say it.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,795
    edited August 2023
    FPT


    Northern_Al said:
    » show previous quotes
    Older than you, so fonder memories of BR:
    1. Free tickets (thanks, dad).
    2. If you were going to Scarborough from, say, London, and your train was a bit late, the connecting train from York to Scarborough would actually be delayed for the London train to arrive.
    Happy days.

    ––––
    Anabob replied:
    Yes, I remembered that when I ran at top speed (along with dozens of others) to make a connection in Newport recently after the London train was 12 minutes late. The next train was an hour or more later. The fastest runners among us held the doors for the slower people, which included mums with pushchairs, and received much abuse from the station staff for our efforts.

    It worked, everyone made the change. But would have been better (and much less sweaty) if the two train 'companies' had simply co-operated. The whole episode was a nasty consequence of a fragmented system.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Weather-or-not-you-want-it Report

    This morning in Seattle air quality has been slowly improving, and is now rated moderate in my locale, though still unhealthy for sensitive groups in most of King Co.

    Also some improvement in Spokane, where the air is now merely rated "unhealthy" for everybody.

    However, situation remains bad for folks in Grand Coulee area, Wenatchee, Yakima and Tri-Cities, where AQI is rated "very unhealthy" with a few stations downright "hazardous" to health.

    Good news is that push of marine air off the North Pacific is expected to clear the wildfire smoke from Puget Sound this evening into tomorrow, with Eastern Washington getting relief day or so later.

    The OTHER big weather news from US West Coast is of course Hurricane (now Post Tropical Cyclone) Hilary which is dumping lots of rain onto Southern California. On top of the 5.1 magnitude Ojai Earthquake in Ventura Co northwest of El Lay.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,795

    Flanner said:
    » show previous quotes
    One of the reasons my train connection into London is a million times better than it was in the 1960s is I now have a choice between a 10 minute walk to my own station (with direct trains to Paddington four times more frequent than 60 years ago) and a 15 minute drive to Oxford Parkway (which didn't have a direct connection to London then).

    On both direct trains to London and the complexities of travel to elsewhere in Britain, it's the real choice privatisation has brought that makes the present system so much better than relying entirely on the UK government.

    ––––

    Anabob replied:

    Er, the stations are nationalised. So your post is an example in favour of a state-run railway...
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,851
    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    williamglenn said:

    Keir Starmer trying to score political points over the Letby case seems ill-judged.

    https://twitter.com/Keir_Starmer/status/1693624227600179583

    And he had no answer when the reporter asked how he would force her into the court against her will other than muttering a longer sentence could be applied

    Not sure he thought that through
    Reminds me of:

    "You are only making it worse for yourself"

    "Worse? How could it be worse. Jehovah, Jehovah"
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,966
    Pacer class 142 42%
    Voyager class 220 27%
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,851
    Cookie said:

    Should this be 'The White House Race' rather than 'The White Race'?

    Proud Boys would approve.
  • CorrectHorseBatCorrectHorseBat Posts: 1,761


    ...
  • eekeek Posts: 30,856
    Anabobazina said:


    Flanner said:
    » show previous quotes
    One of the reasons my train connection into London is a million times better than it was in the 1960s is I now have a choice between a 10 minute walk to my own station (with direct trains to Paddington four times more frequent than 60 years ago) and a 15 minute drive to Oxford Parkway (which didn't have a direct connection to London then).

    On both direct trains to London and the complexities of travel to elsewhere in Britain, it's the real choice privatisation has brought that makes the present system so much better than relying entirely on the UK government.

    ––––

    Anabob replied:

    Er, the stations are nationalised. So your post is an example in favour of a state-run railway...

    No

    A few stations are managed by network rail. Most are managed and staffed by the appropriate train operator...
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    re: header headline, Tim Scott says, "WTF???"

    Along with Nikki Haley and Vivek Ramaswamy, leastways in the (Anglo-) American context!
  • CorrectHorseBatCorrectHorseBat Posts: 1,761
    Anabobazina said:

    FPT


    Northern_Al said:
    » show previous quotes
    Older than you, so fonder memories of BR:
    1. Free tickets (thanks, dad).
    2. If you were going to Scarborough from, say, London, and your train was a bit late, the connecting train from York to Scarborough would actually be delayed for the London train to arrive.
    Happy days.

    ––––
    Anabob replied:
    Yes, I remembered that when I ran at top speed (along with dozens of others) to make a connection in Newport recently after the London train was 12 minutes late. The next train was an hour or more later. The fastest runners among us held the doors for the slower people, which included mums with pushchairs, and received much abuse from the station staff for our efforts.

    It worked, everyone made the change. But would have been better (and much less sweaty) if the two train 'companies' had simply co-operated. The whole episode was a nasty consequence of a fragmented system.

    I am glad to have had some of my Mum and Dad's views confirmed, thank you for posting.
  • CorrectHorseBatCorrectHorseBat Posts: 1,761
    eek said:

    Anabobazina said:


    Flanner said:
    » show previous quotes
    One of the reasons my train connection into London is a million times better than it was in the 1960s is I now have a choice between a 10 minute walk to my own station (with direct trains to Paddington four times more frequent than 60 years ago) and a 15 minute drive to Oxford Parkway (which didn't have a direct connection to London then).

    On both direct trains to London and the complexities of travel to elsewhere in Britain, it's the real choice privatisation has brought that makes the present system so much better than relying entirely on the UK government.

    ––––

    Anabob replied:

    Er, the stations are nationalised. So your post is an example in favour of a state-run railway...

    No

    A few stations are managed by network rail. Most are managed and staffed by the appropriate train operator...
    They are all owned as far as I know, by the government but you are right that most are not managed by them.

    I have to say the ones that are managed by NR feel a lot better in my view.

    Reading for example is really nice now it has been re-built. I also like Liverpool Street and Waterloo.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,795
    eek said:

    Anabobazina said:


    Flanner said:
    » show previous quotes
    One of the reasons my train connection into London is a million times better than it was in the 1960s is I now have a choice between a 10 minute walk to my own station (with direct trains to Paddington four times more frequent than 60 years ago) and a 15 minute drive to Oxford Parkway (which didn't have a direct connection to London then).

    On both direct trains to London and the complexities of travel to elsewhere in Britain, it's the real choice privatisation has brought that makes the present system so much better than relying entirely on the UK government.

    ––––

    Anabob replied:

    Er, the stations are nationalised. So your post is an example in favour of a state-run railway...

    No

    A few stations are managed by network rail. Most are managed and staffed by the appropriate train operator...
    Network Rail owns the stations – more than 2,500 of them. The stations are owned by taxpayers regardless of who manages them.
  • CorrectHorseBatCorrectHorseBat Posts: 1,761
    bigjohnowls said:

    Pacers were neither solid or reliable and should have been disposed of much earlier just like SKS

    I did chuckle @bigjohnowls.

    I had my first post in agreement with @Sandpit today, pigs truly are flying!
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,851
    CorrectHorseBat said:

    Anabobazina said:

    FPT


    Northern_Al said:
    » show previous quotes
    Older than you, so fonder memories of BR:
    1. Free tickets (thanks, dad).
    2. If you were going to Scarborough from, say, London, and your train was a bit late, the connecting train from York to Scarborough would actually be delayed for the London train to arrive.
    Happy days.

    ––––
    Anabob replied:
    Yes, I remembered that when I ran at top speed (along with dozens of others) to make a connection in Newport recently after the London train was 12 minutes late. The next train was an hour or more later. The fastest runners among us held the doors for the slower people, which included mums with pushchairs, and received much abuse from the station staff for our efforts.

    It worked, everyone made the change. But would have been better (and much less sweaty) if the two train 'companies' had simply co-operated. The whole episode was a nasty consequence of a fragmented system.

    I am glad to have had some of my Mum and Dad's views confirmed, thank you for posting.
    Oh dear, desperate stuff. British Rail was really really shit.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 66,298

    Britain Elects

    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 42% (-6)
    CON: 27% (-1)
    LDEM: 13% (+3)
    REF: 7% (+2)
    GRN: 6% (+2)


    @RedfieldWilton
    20 Aug
    Chgs. w/ 13 Aug
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,795
    edited August 2023
    Great British Railways was supposed to be the Tory answer to the franchising disaster.

    At first blush, it looks like a quasi-nationalisation of sorts albeit with a concession system for the TOC(s).

    Anyone got, er, the inside track (sorry) on what's happened to the timetable (sorry again)?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_British_Railways
  • CorrectHorseBatCorrectHorseBat Posts: 1,761
    Nigel_Foremain said:

    CorrectHorseBat said:

    Anabobazina said:

    FPT


    Northern_Al said:
    » show previous quotes
    Older than you, so fonder memories of BR:
    1. Free tickets (thanks, dad).
    2. If you were going to Scarborough from, say, London, and your train was a bit late, the connecting train from York to Scarborough would actually be delayed for the London train to arrive.
    Happy days.

    ––––
    Anabob replied:
    Yes, I remembered that when I ran at top speed (along with dozens of others) to make a connection in Newport recently after the London train was 12 minutes late. The next train was an hour or more later. The fastest runners among us held the doors for the slower people, which included mums with pushchairs, and received much abuse from the station staff for our efforts.

    It worked, everyone made the change. But would have been better (and much less sweaty) if the two train 'companies' had simply co-operated. The whole episode was a nasty consequence of a fragmented system.

    I am glad to have had some of my Mum and Dad's views confirmed, thank you for posting.
    Oh dear, desperate stuff. British Rail was really really shit.
    I didn't say it wasn't shit. Just that the trains now are as bad and hideously expensive.
  • CorrectHorseBatCorrectHorseBat Posts: 1,761
    edited August 2023
    Rishi Sunak's approval rating is -18%, his lowest since February.

    Rishi Sunak Approval Rating (20 August):

    Disapprove: 47%
    Approve: 29%
    Net: -18%

    https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1693661792470278393

    Whomp whomp, is Rishi a dud?

    Starmer leads Sunak by 7%.

    At this moment, which of the following do Britons think would be the better Prime Minister for the UK? (20 August)

    Keir Starmer 40%
    Rishi Sunak 33%

    https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1693656755190812954

    Starmer vs Sunak (20 August):

    Starmer leads Sunak on 15 of 17 leadership characteristic polled, including:

    Cares about people like me (40% | 26%)
    Stands up for the interests of the UK (42% | 29%)
    Is a strong leader (37% | 30%)
    Knows how to get things done (34% | 32%)

    https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1693659273425830085
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 25,524
    edited August 2023
    CorrectHorseBat said:

    One wonders why no other country in the world has copied our privatisation experiment. If it was such a marvellous success people would be lining up to copy it.

    Other nations have privatised their railways. They've just typically done it much better, more thoroughly and a more real privatisation than the bodged half-private, half-public, bidding for rights and subsidised by taxpayer, spiderman-pointing-fingers-at-each-other way it was done here.

    Have a look at Japan for one of the world's most successful networks, that was privatised, operates successfully and privately, takes one of the highest shares of transportation in any country on the planet, and does so with zero subsidies on the mainland.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    CorrectHorseBat said:



    ...

    Which reminds me of why Roger Williams, founder of Rhode Island (born in Smithfield, City of London) was so controversial in colonial New England.

    Because, in addition to opposing coercion of belief and thus supporting religious freedom, Williams also spoke out AND actively repudiated the theft of land and whatever else colonists wanted from the Native Americans.

    Instead, he paid for the lands he and his followers occupied, and took the effort to learn something of their languages and beliefs while negotiating and trading with the Indians.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,991
    Big_G_NorthWales said:


    Britain Elects

    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 42% (-6)
    CON: 27% (-1)
    LDEM: 13% (+3)
    REF: 7% (+2)
    GRN: 6% (+2)


    @RedfieldWilton
    20 Aug
    Chgs. w/ 13 Aug

    A bit of a redistribution of the anti-Tory vote.
    But nothing for Sunak to get excited about.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 129,272
    edited August 2023
    Actually Trump being the GOP nominee again is not great for Biden. Redfield this month has Trump beating Biden 42% to 40% but Biden beating DeSantis 41% to 34% and Biden beating Ramaswamy 41% to 36%.
    https://redfieldandwiltonstrategies.com/joe-biden-administration-approval-ratings-and-hypothetical-voting-intention-5-6-august-2023/

    Albeit there are also polls showing if Trump is convicted in his cases next year Independents and Moderate Republicans will desert him
  • CorrectHorseBatCorrectHorseBat Posts: 1,761
    Starmer leads Sunak by 7%.

    At this moment, which of the following do Britons think would be the better Prime Minister for the UK? (20 August)

    Keir Starmer 40%
    Rishi Sunak 33%

    https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1693656755190812954
    CorrectHorseBat said:



    ...

    I see our pirate is back! Hello friend!
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,966
    Westminster voting intention:

    PACER: 42% (-6)
    VOYAGER: 27% (-1)
    LDEM: 13% (+3)
    REF: 7% (+2)
    GRN: 6% (+2)
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 66,298
    edited August 2023
    Northern_Al said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:


    Britain Elects

    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 42% (-6)
    CON: 27% (-1)
    LDEM: 13% (+3)
    REF: 7% (+2)
    GRN: 6% (+2)


    @RedfieldWilton
    20 Aug
    Chgs. w/ 13 Aug

    A bit of a redistribution of the anti-Tory vote.
    But nothing for Sunak to get excited about.
    I would be more concerned if I was labour that Starmer's flip flopping fiscal conservative attitudes is driving votes to the Lib Dems and Greens

    More evidence is required but a 6 point drop is more than MOE

    As far as Sunak is concerned it is recognised he has a mountain to climb but overconfidence by labour would be unwise
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 129,272
    CorrectHorseBat said:



    ...

    We also built railways and left Westminster style democracy and the rule of law.

    In any case it isn't a matter of just keeping out criminals, immigrants generally fleeing persecution or with skills we need are welcome here
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,991
    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Northern_Al said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:


    Britain Elects

    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 42% (-6)
    CON: 27% (-1)
    LDEM: 13% (+3)
    REF: 7% (+2)
    GRN: 6% (+2)


    @RedfieldWilton
    20 Aug
    Chgs. w/ 13 Aug

    A bit of a redistribution of the anti-Tory vote.
    But nothing for Sunak to get excited about.
    I would be more concerned if I was labour that Starmer's flip flopping fiscal conservative attitudes is driving votes to the Lib Dems and Greens

    More evidence is required but a 6 point drop is more than MOE

    As far as Sunak is concerned it is recognised he has a mountain to climb but overconfidence by labour would be unwise
    Over-confidence by Labour would indeed be unwise.
    Which is why neither Starmer nor his followers are showing a scintilla of it.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 66,298
    Northern_Al said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Northern_Al said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:


    Britain Elects

    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 42% (-6)
    CON: 27% (-1)
    LDEM: 13% (+3)
    REF: 7% (+2)
    GRN: 6% (+2)


    @RedfieldWilton
    20 Aug
    Chgs. w/ 13 Aug

    A bit of a redistribution of the anti-Tory vote.
    But nothing for Sunak to get excited about.
    I would be more concerned if I was labour that Starmer's flip flopping fiscal conservative attitudes is driving votes to the Lib Dems and Greens

    More evidence is required but a 6 point drop is more than MOE

    As far as Sunak is concerned it is recognised he has a mountain to climb but overconfidence by labour would be unwise
    Over-confidence by Labour would indeed be unwise.
    Which is why neither Starmer nor his followers are showing a scintilla of it.
    Some of his followers most certainly are
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 19,315
    Northern_Al said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:


    Britain Elects

    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 42% (-6)
    CON: 27% (-1)
    LDEM: 13% (+3)
    REF: 7% (+2)
    GRN: 6% (+2)


    @RedfieldWilton
    20 Aug
    Chgs. w/ 13 Aug

    A bit of a redistribution of the anti-Tory vote.
    But nothing for Sunak to get excited about.
    Depending on where the redistribution is happening at constituency level, potentially very bad news for the Conservatives. (Though most of those Green votes will be wasted.)
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,101
    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Northern_Al said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:


    Britain Elects

    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 42% (-6)
    CON: 27% (-1)
    LDEM: 13% (+3)
    REF: 7% (+2)
    GRN: 6% (+2)


    @RedfieldWilton
    20 Aug
    Chgs. w/ 13 Aug

    A bit of a redistribution of the anti-Tory vote.
    But nothing for Sunak to get excited about.
    I would be more concerned if I was labour that Starmer's flip flopping fiscal conservative attitudes is driving votes to the Lib Dems and Greens

    More evidence is required but a 6 point drop is more than MOE

    As far as Sunak is concerned it is recognised he has a mountain to climb but overconfidence by labour would be unwise
    It’s a regression to the mean. Last week was an outlier, the Redfield and Wilton at the start of the month was a Lab lead of 15%.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,314
    FPT
    kinabalu said:

    williamglenn said:

    kinabalu said:

    williamglenn said:

    kinabalu said:

    Beibheirli_C said:

    Nigelb said:

    Luckyguy1983 said:

    CorrectHorseBat said:

    Luckyguy1983 said:

    CorrectHorseBat said:

    Luckyguy1983 said:

    Within most of our lifetimes, we have had the death penalty for high treason.

    And it was wrong then as it is now.
    Perhaps. Oddly for such an emotive issue, I don't think I have passionate opinions either way. I wouldn't want a death sentence for Letby I don't think. Though not to be too much of a ratepayer about it, but I do have a slight resentment that we have to keep her for the rest of her life, which will probably cost more than putting her through Eton on a continual loop.
    The evidence suggests that the death penalty is far more expensive than prison.

    It must never, ever be brought back. It is appalling.
    Is that not in America, where people are on death row for decades? In the UK, I think it was quite brisk, you got an appeal, and if that was thrown out, the sentence was carried out. Of course, there were miscarriages of justice.
    Indeed.
    As one of our (at the time) most respected judges put it, in regard to the Birmingham Six:
    ..If the six men win, it will mean that the police are guilty of perjury, that they are guilty of violence and threats, that the confessions were invented and improperly admitted in evidence and the convictions were erroneous... This is such an appalling vista that every sensible person in the land would say that it cannot be right that these actions should go any further...

    "We shouldn't have all these campaigns to get the Birmingham Six released if they'd been hanged. They'd have been forgotten and the whole community would have been satisfied." ..
    The obvious argument against the Death Penalty is that as a deterrent it is an utter failure. If it worked as a deterrent then its introduction would stop murders, but historically it makes no difference to the murder rate and some people have argued that it makes things worse (if you are going to hang for murdering one, why worry about doing a dozen?)

    The true argument about the Death Penalty is more about whether we, as a society, want to exact revenge on the apparently guilty.

    Cost or deterrence is irrelevant. We have to decide if we are the sort of people who want to hear their neck snap or fry them until their eyeballs pop.
    Yes I do think it boils down to this. Do we want the state doing this on our behalf? The 'pros v cons' calculus is important but you have to process that question first.
    So it comes down to our own moral vanity?
    Don't quite follow. In what sense is it vanity?
    Because it places upholding our self-image as the highest good. We deny the families of the victims real justice because it would offend our sense of ourselves as morally superior beings.
    It's not about feeling good about ourselves it's about including in the standards underpinning society that it's a crime to murder somebody. We don't deny the families of victims 'real justice' we deny them eye-for-an-eye retribution. Why? Because of that standard we've just signed off on - that it's a crime to murder somebody. If you have the DP, it sanctions the state doing that and by inference if a private citizen (eg a murder victim's friend or family member) took it upon themselves to do similar it wouldn't be a crime. Bang goes our standard. Society has one less. Society is lowered.
    The same argument could be used against imprisonment. If it’s a crime to imprison someone, why is it ok for the state to do it?
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 25,524
    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Northern_Al said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:


    Britain Elects

    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 42% (-6)
    CON: 27% (-1)
    LDEM: 13% (+3)
    REF: 7% (+2)
    GRN: 6% (+2)


    @RedfieldWilton
    20 Aug
    Chgs. w/ 13 Aug

    A bit of a redistribution of the anti-Tory vote.
    But nothing for Sunak to get excited about.
    I would be more concerned if I was labour that Starmer's flip flopping fiscal conservative attitudes is driving votes to the Lib Dems and Greens

    More evidence is required but a 6 point drop is more than MOE

    As far as Sunak is concerned it is recognised he has a mountain to climb but overconfidence by labour would be unwise
    A 6 point drop isn't really more than MOE actually.

    Last 3 polls from R&W have been in reverse order: 42, 48, 45

    Extending the series back to June we have: 42, 48, 45, 43, 45, 44, 48, 46, 44, 46, 44, 44

    Which is all consistent with 45 +/- 3% ... even disregarding the fact that out of 12 polls it wouldn't be surprising to get an outlier, but they're all within that band.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 129,272
    The King and Camilla arrive at Balmoral for a 3 week summer hoiiday

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-66570409
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 79,857
    SeaShantyIrish2 said:

    re: header headline, Tim Scott says, "WTF???"

    Along with Nikki Haley and Vivek Ramaswamy, leastways in the (Anglo-) American context!

    “Mistakes have been made.”

    And corrected.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 25,524
    williamglenn said:

    FPT

    kinabalu said:

    williamglenn said:

    kinabalu said:

    williamglenn said:

    kinabalu said:

    Beibheirli_C said:

    Nigelb said:

    Luckyguy1983 said:

    CorrectHorseBat said:

    Luckyguy1983 said:

    CorrectHorseBat said:

    Luckyguy1983 said:

    Within most of our lifetimes, we have had the death penalty for high treason.

    And it was wrong then as it is now.
    Perhaps. Oddly for such an emotive issue, I don't think I have passionate opinions either way. I wouldn't want a death sentence for Letby I don't think. Though not to be too much of a ratepayer about it, but I do have a slight resentment that we have to keep her for the rest of her life, which will probably cost more than putting her through Eton on a continual loop.
    The evidence suggests that the death penalty is far more expensive than prison.

    It must never, ever be brought back. It is appalling.
    Is that not in America, where people are on death row for decades? In the UK, I think it was quite brisk, you got an appeal, and if that was thrown out, the sentence was carried out. Of course, there were miscarriages of justice.
    Indeed.
    As one of our (at the time) most respected judges put it, in regard to the Birmingham Six:
    ..If the six men win, it will mean that the police are guilty of perjury, that they are guilty of violence and threats, that the confessions were invented and improperly admitted in evidence and the convictions were erroneous... This is such an appalling vista that every sensible person in the land would say that it cannot be right that these actions should go any further...

    "We shouldn't have all these campaigns to get the Birmingham Six released if they'd been hanged. They'd have been forgotten and the whole community would have been satisfied." ..
    The obvious argument against the Death Penalty is that as a deterrent it is an utter failure. If it worked as a deterrent then its introduction would stop murders, but historically it makes no difference to the murder rate and some people have argued that it makes things worse (if you are going to hang for murdering one, why worry about doing a dozen?)

    The true argument about the Death Penalty is more about whether we, as a society, want to exact revenge on the apparently guilty.

    Cost or deterrence is irrelevant. We have to decide if we are the sort of people who want to hear their neck snap or fry them until their eyeballs pop.
    Yes I do think it boils down to this. Do we want the state doing this on our behalf? The 'pros v cons' calculus is important but you have to process that question first.
    So it comes down to our own moral vanity?
    Don't quite follow. In what sense is it vanity?
    Because it places upholding our self-image as the highest good. We deny the families of the victims real justice because it would offend our sense of ourselves as morally superior beings.
    It's not about feeling good about ourselves it's about including in the standards underpinning society that it's a crime to murder somebody. We don't deny the families of victims 'real justice' we deny them eye-for-an-eye retribution. Why? Because of that standard we've just signed off on - that it's a crime to murder somebody. If you have the DP, it sanctions the state doing that and by inference if a private citizen (eg a murder victim's friend or family member) took it upon themselves to do similar it wouldn't be a crime. Bang goes our standard. Society has one less. Society is lowered.
    The same argument could be used against imprisonment. If it’s a crime to imprison someone, why is it ok for the state to do it?
    TINA.

    We have no alternative but to imprison people for safety of the public.

    That's not the case for executing people who are potentially innocent if there's been a miscarriage of justice.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 15,759
    Northern_Al said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:


    Britain Elects

    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 42% (-6)
    CON: 27% (-1)
    LDEM: 13% (+3)
    REF: 7% (+2)
    GRN: 6% (+2)


    @RedfieldWilton
    20 Aug
    Chgs. w/ 13 Aug

    A bit of a redistribution of the anti-Tory vote.
    But nothing for Sunak to get excited about.
    LLG 61% vs RefCon 34% is around average for recent polls.

    Next big movement probably the October party conferences. Lib Dems may get a boost as they had to cancel the conference last year due to London Bridge. I've had a look at the agenda and there's some interesting stuff in there, once you cut through the inevitable conference guff. Take a read - something on most of the PB hot topics:

    https://www.libdems.org.uk/fileadmin/groups/2_Federal_Party/Documents/Conference/Autumn_2023/A23_Conf_Agenda_Web-2.pdf
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,402
    HYUFD said:

    CorrectHorseBat said:



    ...

    We also built railways and left Westminster style democracy and the rule of law.
    In Burma?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 129,272
    CorrectHorseBat said:

    Starmer leads Sunak by 7%.

    At this moment, which of the following do Britons think would be the better Prime Minister for the UK? (20 August)

    Keir Starmer 40%
    Rishi Sunak 33%

    https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1693656755190812954

    CorrectHorseBat said:



    ...

    I see our pirate is back! Hello friend!
    Those preferred PM numbers if transferred to voting intention give a Labour majority of just 38

    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/fcgi-bin/usercode.py?scotcontrol=Y&CON=33&LAB=40&LIB=11&Reform=2&Green=3&UKIP=&TVCON=&TVLAB=&TVLIB=&TVReform=&TVGreen=&TVUKIP=&SCOTCON=18.3&SCOTLAB=33.3&SCOTLIB=8.3&SCOTReform=0&SCOTGreen=0.7&SCOTUKIP=&SCOTNAT=36.3&display=AllChanged&regorseat=(none)&boundary=2019nbbase
  • TimSTimS Posts: 15,759
    HYUFD said:

    CorrectHorseBat said:

    Starmer leads Sunak by 7%.

    At this moment, which of the following do Britons think would be the better Prime Minister for the UK? (20 August)

    Keir Starmer 40%
    Rishi Sunak 33%

    https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1693656755190812954

    CorrectHorseBat said:



    ...

    I see our pirate is back! Hello friend!
    Those preferred PM numbers if transferred to voting intention give a Labour majority of just 38

    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/fcgi-bin/usercode.py?scotcontrol=Y&CON=33&LAB=40&LIB=11&Reform=2&Green=3&UKIP=&TVCON=&TVLAB=&TVLIB=&TVReform=&TVGreen=&TVUKIP=&SCOTCON=18.3&SCOTLAB=33.3&SCOTLIB=8.3&SCOTReform=0&SCOTGreen=0.7&SCOTUKIP=&SCOTNAT=36.3&display=AllChanged&regorseat=(none)&boundary=2019nbbase
    I'm sure they'd be happy with a majority of 38 given most people are expecting a hung parliament.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,402
    Big_G_NorthWales said:


    Britain Elects

    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 42% (-6)
    CON: 27% (-1)
    LDEM: 13% (+3)
    REF: 7% (+2)
    GRN: 6% (+2)


    @RedfieldWilton
    20 Aug
    Chgs. w/ 13 Aug

    Broken, sleazy Labour on the slide....?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 66,298
    HYUFD said:

    CorrectHorseBat said:

    Starmer leads Sunak by 7%.

    At this moment, which of the following do Britons think would be the better Prime Minister for the UK? (20 August)

    Keir Starmer 40%
    Rishi Sunak 33%

    https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1693656755190812954

    CorrectHorseBat said:



    ...

    I see our pirate is back! Hello friend!
    Those preferred PM numbers if transferred to voting intention give a Labour majority of just 38

    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/fcgi-bin/usercode.py?scotcontrol=Y&CON=33&LAB=40&LIB=11&Reform=2&Green=3&UKIP=&TVCON=&TVLAB=&TVLIB=&TVReform=&TVGreen=&TVUKIP=&SCOTCON=18.3&SCOTLAB=33.3&SCOTLIB=8.3&SCOTReform=0&SCOTGreen=0.7&SCOTUKIP=&SCOTNAT=36.3&display=AllChanged&regorseat=(none)&boundary=2019nbbase
    I find that bizarre to use preferred PM numbers for electoral calculus

    The conservatives are not on 33 nor are labour on 40

    The difference even today is 15%

    I am sure others will have a view
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,728
    HYUFD said:

    CorrectHorseBat said:

    Starmer leads Sunak by 7%.

    At this moment, which of the following do Britons think would be the better Prime Minister for the UK? (20 August)

    Keir Starmer 40%
    Rishi Sunak 33%

    https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1693656755190812954

    CorrectHorseBat said:



    ...

    I see our pirate is back! Hello friend!
    Those preferred PM numbers if transferred to voting intention give a Labour majority of just 38

    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/fcgi-bin/usercode.py?scotcontrol=Y&CON=33&LAB=40&LIB=11&Reform=2&Green=3&UKIP=&TVCON=&TVLAB=&TVLIB=&TVReform=&TVGreen=&TVUKIP=&SCOTCON=18.3&SCOTLAB=33.3&SCOTLIB=8.3&SCOTReform=0&SCOTGreen=0.7&SCOTUKIP=&SCOTNAT=36.3&display=AllChanged&regorseat=(none)&boundary=2019nbbase
    I recommend trying the percentage of cats which prefer Whiskas. I'm sure it will look even better from your point of view.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 15,759
    BartholomewRoberts said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Northern_Al said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:


    Britain Elects

    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 42% (-6)
    CON: 27% (-1)
    LDEM: 13% (+3)
    REF: 7% (+2)
    GRN: 6% (+2)


    @RedfieldWilton
    20 Aug
    Chgs. w/ 13 Aug

    A bit of a redistribution of the anti-Tory vote.
    But nothing for Sunak to get excited about.
    I would be more concerned if I was labour that Starmer's flip flopping fiscal conservative attitudes is driving votes to the Lib Dems and Greens

    More evidence is required but a 6 point drop is more than MOE

    As far as Sunak is concerned it is recognised he has a mountain to climb but overconfidence by labour would be unwise
    A 6 point drop isn't really more than MOE actually.

    Last 3 polls from R&W have been in reverse order: 42, 48, 45

    Extending the series back to June we have: 42, 48, 45, 43, 45, 44, 48, 46, 44, 46, 44, 44

    Which is all consistent with 45 +/- 3% ... even disregarding the fact that out of 12 polls it wouldn't be surprising to get an outlier, but they're all within that band.
    Certainly Labour -6% looks like a big shift, but when 2 of that is to Green which was a low outlier in the last poll, and 3 is to Lib Dem which was also borderline low outlier, it certainly feels more like reversion to the mean.

    Net net this is a 1% shift from LLLG to RefCon so still not too bad news for Rishi especially given that Ref vote will actually be about 1% come the election, but 27% remains pretty crap.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 36,725
    It's a long time since I've seen any party get a minus 6 in an opinion poll.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,728
    TimS said:

    williamglenn said:

    Keir Starmer trying to score political points over the Letby case seems ill-judged.

    https://twitter.com/Keir_Starmer/status/1693624227600179583

    It does, though, blunt any planned Tory political point scoring about the case. Though the scope for point scoring on any side is limited here: there seems to be cross-party agreement on the hospital failings that led to this, she got a whole life tariff so there's not a sentencing angle (short of threatening the death penalty) and she is not in a minority / migrant group where dogwhistling would be an option.
    It woul dhave to be on the basis of pure (not Coalition) responsibility from the NHS from May 2015. Can't see that being a goer, Tory attacks on Labour for North Staffs notwithstanding.
  • CorrectHorseBatCorrectHorseBat Posts: 1,761
    Andy_JS said:

    It's a long time since I've seen any party get a minus 6 in an opinion poll.

    Didn't it happen like a month ago lol
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 129,272
    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    HYUFD said:

    CorrectHorseBat said:

    Starmer leads Sunak by 7%.

    At this moment, which of the following do Britons think would be the better Prime Minister for the UK? (20 August)

    Keir Starmer 40%
    Rishi Sunak 33%

    https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1693656755190812954

    CorrectHorseBat said:



    ...

    I see our pirate is back! Hello friend!
    Those preferred PM numbers if transferred to voting intention give a Labour majority of just 38

    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/fcgi-bin/usercode.py?scotcontrol=Y&CON=33&LAB=40&LIB=11&Reform=2&Green=3&UKIP=&TVCON=&TVLAB=&TVLIB=&TVReform=&TVGreen=&TVUKIP=&SCOTCON=18.3&SCOTLAB=33.3&SCOTLIB=8.3&SCOTReform=0&SCOTGreen=0.7&SCOTUKIP=&SCOTNAT=36.3&display=AllChanged&regorseat=(none)&boundary=2019nbbase
    I find that bizarre to use preferred PM numbers for electoral calculus

    The conservatives are not on 33 nor are labour on 40

    The difference even today is 15%

    I am sure others will have a view
    Nor will RefUK likely get the 7% they are on in the headline poll
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,728
    eek said:

    Anabobazina said:


    Flanner said:
    » show previous quotes
    One of the reasons my train connection into London is a million times better than it was in the 1960s is I now have a choice between a 10 minute walk to my own station (with direct trains to Paddington four times more frequent than 60 years ago) and a 15 minute drive to Oxford Parkway (which didn't have a direct connection to London then).

    On both direct trains to London and the complexities of travel to elsewhere in Britain, it's the real choice privatisation has brought that makes the present system so much better than relying entirely on the UK government.

    ––––

    Anabob replied:

    Er, the stations are nationalised. So your post is an example in favour of a state-run railway...

    No

    A few stations are managed by network rail. Most are managed and staffed by the appropriate train operator...
    Hmm, we are really considering capital funding and building ,are we not? Wouldn't be there for the relatively fly by night operator to operate else.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,402
    TimS said:

    BartholomewRoberts said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Northern_Al said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:


    Britain Elects

    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 42% (-6)
    CON: 27% (-1)
    LDEM: 13% (+3)
    REF: 7% (+2)
    GRN: 6% (+2)


    @RedfieldWilton
    20 Aug
    Chgs. w/ 13 Aug

    A bit of a redistribution of the anti-Tory vote.
    But nothing for Sunak to get excited about.
    I would be more concerned if I was labour that Starmer's flip flopping fiscal conservative attitudes is driving votes to the Lib Dems and Greens

    More evidence is required but a 6 point drop is more than MOE

    As far as Sunak is concerned it is recognised he has a mountain to climb but overconfidence by labour would be unwise
    A 6 point drop isn't really more than MOE actually.

    Last 3 polls from R&W have been in reverse order: 42, 48, 45

    Extending the series back to June we have: 42, 48, 45, 43, 45, 44, 48, 46, 44, 46, 44, 44

    Which is all consistent with 45 +/- 3% ... even disregarding the fact that out of 12 polls it wouldn't be surprising to get an outlier, but they're all within that band.
    Certainly Labour -6% looks like a big shift, but when 2 of that is to Green which was a low outlier in the last poll, and 3 is to Lib Dem which was also borderline low outlier, it certainly feels more like reversion to the mean.

    Net net this is a 1% shift from LLLG to RefCon so still not too bad news for Rishi especially given that Ref vote will actually be about 1% come the election, but 27% remains pretty crap.
    Even Major got 30% in 1997 :lol:
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,314
    edited August 2023
    BartholomewRoberts said:

    williamglenn said:

    FPT

    kinabalu said:

    williamglenn said:

    kinabalu said:

    williamglenn said:

    kinabalu said:

    Beibheirli_C said:

    Nigelb said:

    Luckyguy1983 said:

    CorrectHorseBat said:

    Luckyguy1983 said:

    CorrectHorseBat said:

    Luckyguy1983 said:

    Within most of our lifetimes, we have had the death penalty for high treason.

    And it was wrong then as it is now.
    Perhaps. Oddly for such an emotive issue, I don't think I have passionate opinions either way. I wouldn't want a death sentence for Letby I don't think. Though not to be too much of a ratepayer about it, but I do have a slight resentment that we have to keep her for the rest of her life, which will probably cost more than putting her through Eton on a continual loop.
    The evidence suggests that the death penalty is far more expensive than prison.

    It must never, ever be brought back. It is appalling.
    Is that not in America, where people are on death row for decades? In the UK, I think it was quite brisk, you got an appeal, and if that was thrown out, the sentence was carried out. Of course, there were miscarriages of justice.
    Indeed.
    As one of our (at the time) most respected judges put it, in regard to the Birmingham Six:
    ..If the six men win, it will mean that the police are guilty of perjury, that they are guilty of violence and threats, that the confessions were invented and improperly admitted in evidence and the convictions were erroneous... This is such an appalling vista that every sensible person in the land would say that it cannot be right that these actions should go any further...

    "We shouldn't have all these campaigns to get the Birmingham Six released if they'd been hanged. They'd have been forgotten and the whole community would have been satisfied." ..
    The obvious argument against the Death Penalty is that as a deterrent it is an utter failure. If it worked as a deterrent then its introduction would stop murders, but historically it makes no difference to the murder rate and some people have argued that it makes things worse (if you are going to hang for murdering one, why worry about doing a dozen?)

    The true argument about the Death Penalty is more about whether we, as a society, want to exact revenge on the apparently guilty.

    Cost or deterrence is irrelevant. We have to decide if we are the sort of people who want to hear their neck snap or fry them until their eyeballs pop.
    Yes I do think it boils down to this. Do we want the state doing this on our behalf? The 'pros v cons' calculus is important but you have to process that question first.
    So it comes down to our own moral vanity?
    Don't quite follow. In what sense is it vanity?
    Because it places upholding our self-image as the highest good. We deny the families of the victims real justice because it would offend our sense of ourselves as morally superior beings.
    It's not about feeling good about ourselves it's about including in the standards underpinning society that it's a crime to murder somebody. We don't deny the families of victims 'real justice' we deny them eye-for-an-eye retribution. Why? Because of that standard we've just signed off on - that it's a crime to murder somebody. If you have the DP, it sanctions the state doing that and by inference if a private citizen (eg a murder victim's friend or family member) took it upon themselves to do similar it wouldn't be a crime. Bang goes our standard. Society has one less. Society is lowered.
    The same argument could be used against imprisonment. If it’s a crime to imprison someone, why is it ok for the state to do it?
    TINA.

    We have no alternative but to imprison people for safety of the public.

    That's not the case for executing people who are potentially innocent if there's been a miscarriage of justice.
    We imprison people who don't pose a threat to the public though. Do you think this is wrong?
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 5,174
    HYUFD said:

    The King and Camilla arrive at Balmoral for a 3 week summer hoiiday

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-66570409

    Not staying at Birkhall? A bit surprised.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,728
    williamglenn said:

    FPT

    kinabalu said:

    williamglenn said:

    kinabalu said:

    williamglenn said:

    kinabalu said:

    Beibheirli_C said:

    Nigelb said:

    Luckyguy1983 said:

    CorrectHorseBat said:

    Luckyguy1983 said:

    CorrectHorseBat said:

    Luckyguy1983 said:

    Within most of our lifetimes, we have had the death penalty for high treason.

    And it was wrong then as it is now.
    Perhaps. Oddly for such an emotive issue, I don't think I have passionate opinions either way. I wouldn't want a death sentence for Letby I don't think. Though not to be too much of a ratepayer about it, but I do have a slight resentment that we have to keep her for the rest of her life, which will probably cost more than putting her through Eton on a continual loop.
    The evidence suggests that the death penalty is far more expensive than prison.

    It must never, ever be brought back. It is appalling.
    Is that not in America, where people are on death row for decades? In the UK, I think it was quite brisk, you got an appeal, and if that was thrown out, the sentence was carried out. Of course, there were miscarriages of justice.
    Indeed.
    As one of our (at the time) most respected judges put it, in regard to the Birmingham Six:
    ..If the six men win, it will mean that the police are guilty of perjury, that they are guilty of violence and threats, that the confessions were invented and improperly admitted in evidence and the convictions were erroneous... This is such an appalling vista that every sensible person in the land would say that it cannot be right that these actions should go any further...

    "We shouldn't have all these campaigns to get the Birmingham Six released if they'd been hanged. They'd have been forgotten and the whole community would have been satisfied." ..
    The obvious argument against the Death Penalty is that as a deterrent it is an utter failure. If it worked as a deterrent then its introduction would stop murders, but historically it makes no difference to the murder rate and some people have argued that it makes things worse (if you are going to hang for murdering one, why worry about doing a dozen?)

    The true argument about the Death Penalty is more about whether we, as a society, want to exact revenge on the apparently guilty.

    Cost or deterrence is irrelevant. We have to decide if we are the sort of people who want to hear their neck snap or fry them until their eyeballs pop.
    Yes I do think it boils down to this. Do we want the state doing this on our behalf? The 'pros v cons' calculus is important but you have to process that question first.
    So it comes down to our own moral vanity?
    Don't quite follow. In what sense is it vanity?
    Because it places upholding our self-image as the highest good. We deny the families of the victims real justice because it would offend our sense of ourselves as morally superior beings.
    It's not about feeling good about ourselves it's about including in the standards underpinning society that it's a crime to murder somebody. We don't deny the families of victims 'real justice' we deny them eye-for-an-eye retribution. Why? Because of that standard we've just signed off on - that it's a crime to murder somebody. If you have the DP, it sanctions the state doing that and by inference if a private citizen (eg a murder victim's friend or family member) took it upon themselves to do similar it wouldn't be a crime. Bang goes our standard. Society has one less. Society is lowered.
    The same argument could be used against imprisonment. If it’s a crime to imprison someone, why is it ok for the state to do it?
    Because they can be compensated in miscarriages of justice. Can't un-hang someone.

    Mind, the latest example of compensation (beign charged for board and lodging, HMP Slade grade) isn't exactly helping.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 30,679
    bigjohnowls said:

    Westminster voting intention:

    PACER: 42% (-6)
    VOYAGER: 27% (-1)
    LDEM: 13% (+3)
    REF: 7% (+2)
    GRN: 6% (+2)

    Starmer's Labour: Class 144
    Momentum: Class 141
    Corbyn's Labour: LEV1

    #geekpower
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 25,524
    Can I please ask the PB Brains Trust for advice on cleaning an internal Laptop fan?

    My Laptop has suddenly become very noisy and I'm pretty certain its one of the fans. Not sure if its the CPU fan, or the GPU fan (gaming Laptop so has dedicated GPU). The noise volume goes up or down, its not consistent, but at its worst its very loud.

    I'm taken the case apart and there was quite a bit of grey dust build-up in the fan so I've cleaned what I can access with cotton wool but its hard to access it properly and its still making a noise.

    I was thinking of getting some compressed air to clean it with, but had a look at Amazon and I can't find any I trust. Everything on Amazon seems to seems to be dodgy stuff from China and have really mixed reviews with a lot of negative reviews about it just spraying liquid instead which isn't ideal with electronics. Found one on Amazon that looked professional but zooming into the picture there's multiple spelling mistakes on the can so clearly a very dodgy Chinese knock off again who can't afford a spellchecker so who knows what you're actually getting?

    Any advice on anything I can get that's reliable?
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 25,524
    williamglenn said:

    BartholomewRoberts said:

    williamglenn said:

    FPT

    kinabalu said:

    williamglenn said:

    kinabalu said:

    williamglenn said:

    kinabalu said:

    Beibheirli_C said:

    Nigelb said:

    Luckyguy1983 said:

    CorrectHorseBat said:

    Luckyguy1983 said:

    CorrectHorseBat said:

    Luckyguy1983 said:

    Within most of our lifetimes, we have had the death penalty for high treason.

    And it was wrong then as it is now.
    Perhaps. Oddly for such an emotive issue, I don't think I have passionate opinions either way. I wouldn't want a death sentence for Letby I don't think. Though not to be too much of a ratepayer about it, but I do have a slight resentment that we have to keep her for the rest of her life, which will probably cost more than putting her through Eton on a continual loop.
    The evidence suggests that the death penalty is far more expensive than prison.

    It must never, ever be brought back. It is appalling.
    Is that not in America, where people are on death row for decades? In the UK, I think it was quite brisk, you got an appeal, and if that was thrown out, the sentence was carried out. Of course, there were miscarriages of justice.
    Indeed.
    As one of our (at the time) most respected judges put it, in regard to the Birmingham Six:
    ..If the six men win, it will mean that the police are guilty of perjury, that they are guilty of violence and threats, that the confessions were invented and improperly admitted in evidence and the convictions were erroneous... This is such an appalling vista that every sensible person in the land would say that it cannot be right that these actions should go any further...

    "We shouldn't have all these campaigns to get the Birmingham Six released if they'd been hanged. They'd have been forgotten and the whole community would have been satisfied." ..
    The obvious argument against the Death Penalty is that as a deterrent it is an utter failure. If it worked as a deterrent then its introduction would stop murders, but historically it makes no difference to the murder rate and some people have argued that it makes things worse (if you are going to hang for murdering one, why worry about doing a dozen?)

    The true argument about the Death Penalty is more about whether we, as a society, want to exact revenge on the apparently guilty.

    Cost or deterrence is irrelevant. We have to decide if we are the sort of people who want to hear their neck snap or fry them until their eyeballs pop.
    Yes I do think it boils down to this. Do we want the state doing this on our behalf? The 'pros v cons' calculus is important but you have to process that question first.
    So it comes down to our own moral vanity?
    Don't quite follow. In what sense is it vanity?
    Because it places upholding our self-image as the highest good. We deny the families of the victims real justice because it would offend our sense of ourselves as morally superior beings.
    It's not about feeling good about ourselves it's about including in the standards underpinning society that it's a crime to murder somebody. We don't deny the families of victims 'real justice' we deny them eye-for-an-eye retribution. Why? Because of that standard we've just signed off on - that it's a crime to murder somebody. If you have the DP, it sanctions the state doing that and by inference if a private citizen (eg a murder victim's friend or family member) took it upon themselves to do similar it wouldn't be a crime. Bang goes our standard. Society has one less. Society is lowered.
    The same argument could be used against imprisonment. If it’s a crime to imprison someone, why is it ok for the state to do it?
    TINA.

    We have no alternative but to imprison people for safety of the public.

    That's not the case for executing people who are potentially innocent if there's been a miscarriage of justice.
    We imprison people who don't pose a threat to the public though. Do you think this is wrong?
    Who do you mean?

    People imprisoned for victimless crimes I absolutely think its wrong.

    But I think people in prison generally do pose a threat to the public, which is why they're there.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,402
    RochdalePioneers said:

    bigjohnowls said:

    Westminster voting intention:

    PACER: 42% (-6)
    VOYAGER: 27% (-1)
    LDEM: 13% (+3)
    REF: 7% (+2)
    GRN: 6% (+2)

    Starmer's Labour: Class 144
    Momentum: Class 141
    Corbyn's Labour: LEV1

    #geekpower
    Starmer's Labour = Sub-surface Underground stock (ie. almost as big as National Rail trains)
    Momentum = Deep-level Tube stock*
    Corbyn = Glasgow Subway tube stock

    * My pet crazy idea is to re-bore the Deep-level Tube lines in London so they can take at least the current sub-surface S Stock.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,146
    BartholomewRoberts said:

    Can I please ask the PB Brains Trust for advice on cleaning an internal Laptop fan?

    My Laptop has suddenly become very noisy and I'm pretty certain its one of the fans. Not sure if its the CPU fan, or the GPU fan (gaming Laptop so has dedicated GPU). The noise volume goes up or down, its not consistent, but at its worst its very loud.

    I'm taken the case apart and there was quite a bit of grey dust build-up in the fan so I've cleaned what I can access with cotton wool but its hard to access it properly and its still making a noise.

    I was thinking of getting some compressed air to clean it with, but had a look at Amazon and I can't find any I trust. Everything on Amazon seems to seems to be dodgy stuff from China and have really mixed reviews with a lot of negative reviews about it just spraying liquid instead which isn't ideal with electronics. Found one on Amazon that looked professional but zooming into the picture there's multiple spelling mistakes on the can so clearly a very dodgy Chinese knock off again who can't afford a spellchecker so who knows what you're actually getting?

    Any advice on anything I can get that's reliable?

    Don’t shop online. Go to a local hardware store, or even PC World, and buy a compressed air can from there. Use small blasts around the fans, and be aware that the can and the nozzle will freeze with over-use.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,631
    BartholomewRoberts said:

    Can I please ask the PB Brains Trust for advice on cleaning an internal Laptop fan?

    My Laptop has suddenly become very noisy and I'm pretty certain its one of the fans. Not sure if its the CPU fan, or the GPU fan (gaming Laptop so has dedicated GPU). The noise volume goes up or down, its not consistent, but at its worst its very loud.

    I'm taken the case apart and there was quite a bit of grey dust build-up in the fan so I've cleaned what I can access with cotton wool but its hard to access it properly and its still making a noise.

    I was thinking of getting some compressed air to clean it with, but had a look at Amazon and I can't find any I trust. Everything on Amazon seems to seems to be dodgy stuff from China and have really mixed reviews with a lot of negative reviews about it just spraying liquid instead which isn't ideal with electronics. Found one on Amazon that looked professional but zooming into the picture there's multiple spelling mistakes on the can so clearly a very dodgy Chinese knock off again who can't afford a spellchecker so who knows what you're actually getting?

    Any advice on anything I can get that's reliable?

    I wouldn't take much notice of the reviews, especially as there are some complaining about the can getting too cold (showing a lack of understanding of the ideal gas law). Just buy the first one on the list. It's likely to be compressed air. If not, you've wasted a whole £7.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,728
    edited August 2023
    BartholomewRoberts said:

    Can I please ask the PB Brains Trust for advice on cleaning an internal Laptop fan?

    My Laptop has suddenly become very noisy and I'm pretty certain its one of the fans. Not sure if its the CPU fan, or the GPU fan (gaming Laptop so has dedicated GPU). The noise volume goes up or down, its not consistent, but at its worst its very loud.

    I'm taken the case apart and there was quite a bit of grey dust build-up in the fan so I've cleaned what I can access with cotton wool but its hard to access it properly and its still making a noise.

    I was thinking of getting some compressed air to clean it with, but had a look at Amazon and I can't find any I trust. Everything on Amazon seems to seems to be dodgy stuff from China and have really mixed reviews with a lot of negative reviews about it just spraying liquid instead which isn't ideal with electronics. Found one on Amazon that looked professional but zooming into the picture there's multiple spelling mistakes on the can so clearly a very dodgy Chinese knock off again who can't afford a spellchecker so who knows what you're actually getting?

    Any advice on anything I can get that's reliable?

    Liquid? Two poss - someone is using the wrong kind of cleaner (an actual detergent) or has mishandled a compressed gas canister using eg butane and is getting liquid butane out of it (e.g. by holding it wrongly, tilting, etc.).

    But don't blame you for being worried. I get mine from the specialist computer shop that built my PC. Take my desktop PC outside [edit] and switched off (cos the pressure generator is inflammable) on a dry day, undo the panels both sides, and blow the dust away carefully. I do it maybe 2-3 times a year. Makes a huge difference to cooling, noise, etc. Edit: it has a long plastic snout WD40 style, for directing the jet.

  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,146
    On topic, Vivek has been gaining in popularity becuase he’s putting himself out there and going dozens of interviews, including people with whom he will disagree, and often in long form rather than five minute soundbites.

    Here’s an hour of a quite combative podcast interview with a slightly stoned Bill Maher, they end up agreeing on more than they disagree. https://youtube.com/watch?v=lrpW-SUchFo
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 25,524
    RobD said:

    BartholomewRoberts said:

    Can I please ask the PB Brains Trust for advice on cleaning an internal Laptop fan?

    My Laptop has suddenly become very noisy and I'm pretty certain its one of the fans. Not sure if its the CPU fan, or the GPU fan (gaming Laptop so has dedicated GPU). The noise volume goes up or down, its not consistent, but at its worst its very loud.

    I'm taken the case apart and there was quite a bit of grey dust build-up in the fan so I've cleaned what I can access with cotton wool but its hard to access it properly and its still making a noise.

    I was thinking of getting some compressed air to clean it with, but had a look at Amazon and I can't find any I trust. Everything on Amazon seems to seems to be dodgy stuff from China and have really mixed reviews with a lot of negative reviews about it just spraying liquid instead which isn't ideal with electronics. Found one on Amazon that looked professional but zooming into the picture there's multiple spelling mistakes on the can so clearly a very dodgy Chinese knock off again who can't afford a spellchecker so who knows what you're actually getting?

    Any advice on anything I can get that's reliable?

    I wouldn't take much notice of the reviews, especially as there are some complaining about the can getting too cold (showing a lack of understanding of the ideal gas law). Just buy the first one on the list. It's likely to be compressed air. If not, you've wasted a whole £7.
    The £7 doesn't bother me so much as if I buy some dodgy knock-off crap that sprays something dodgy into the device damaging the device which is worth much more than £7 to me. If its genuinely the right gas, that's fine, but if its not I was concerned what else it could be and if it might be damaging?
    Sandpit said:

    BartholomewRoberts said:

    Can I please ask the PB Brains Trust for advice on cleaning an internal Laptop fan?

    My Laptop has suddenly become very noisy and I'm pretty certain its one of the fans. Not sure if its the CPU fan, or the GPU fan (gaming Laptop so has dedicated GPU). The noise volume goes up or down, its not consistent, but at its worst its very loud.

    I'm taken the case apart and there was quite a bit of grey dust build-up in the fan so I've cleaned what I can access with cotton wool but its hard to access it properly and its still making a noise.

    I was thinking of getting some compressed air to clean it with, but had a look at Amazon and I can't find any I trust. Everything on Amazon seems to seems to be dodgy stuff from China and have really mixed reviews with a lot of negative reviews about it just spraying liquid instead which isn't ideal with electronics. Found one on Amazon that looked professional but zooming into the picture there's multiple spelling mistakes on the can so clearly a very dodgy Chinese knock off again who can't afford a spellchecker so who knows what you're actually getting?

    Any advice on anything I can get that's reliable?

    Don’t shop online. Go to a local hardware store, or even PC World, and buy a compressed air can from there. Use small blasts around the fans, and be aware that the can and the nozzle will freeze with over-use.
    Yeah I dislike PC World as a company, they're generally crap, but even resorted to having a look at Currys (PC World) website but couldn't find anything on their site so was guessing its not something they sell.

    May have to resort to a hardware store.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,728
    BartholomewRoberts said:

    RobD said:

    BartholomewRoberts said:

    Can I please ask the PB Brains Trust for advice on cleaning an internal Laptop fan?

    My Laptop has suddenly become very noisy and I'm pretty certain its one of the fans. Not sure if its the CPU fan, or the GPU fan (gaming Laptop so has dedicated GPU). The noise volume goes up or down, its not consistent, but at its worst its very loud.

    I'm taken the case apart and there was quite a bit of grey dust build-up in the fan so I've cleaned what I can access with cotton wool but its hard to access it properly and its still making a noise.

    I was thinking of getting some compressed air to clean it with, but had a look at Amazon and I can't find any I trust. Everything on Amazon seems to seems to be dodgy stuff from China and have really mixed reviews with a lot of negative reviews about it just spraying liquid instead which isn't ideal with electronics. Found one on Amazon that looked professional but zooming into the picture there's multiple spelling mistakes on the can so clearly a very dodgy Chinese knock off again who can't afford a spellchecker so who knows what you're actually getting?

    Any advice on anything I can get that's reliable?

    I wouldn't take much notice of the reviews, especially as there are some complaining about the can getting too cold (showing a lack of understanding of the ideal gas law). Just buy the first one on the list. It's likely to be compressed air. If not, you've wasted a whole £7.
    The £7 doesn't bother me so much as if I buy some dodgy knock-off crap that sprays something dodgy into the device damaging the device which is worth much more than £7 to me. If its genuinely the right gas, that's fine, but if its not I was concerned what else it could be and if it might be damaging?
    Sandpit said:

    BartholomewRoberts said:

    Can I please ask the PB Brains Trust for advice on cleaning an internal Laptop fan?

    My Laptop has suddenly become very noisy and I'm pretty certain its one of the fans. Not sure if its the CPU fan, or the GPU fan (gaming Laptop so has dedicated GPU). The noise volume goes up or down, its not consistent, but at its worst its very loud.

    I'm taken the case apart and there was quite a bit of grey dust build-up in the fan so I've cleaned what I can access with cotton wool but its hard to access it properly and its still making a noise.

    I was thinking of getting some compressed air to clean it with, but had a look at Amazon and I can't find any I trust. Everything on Amazon seems to seems to be dodgy stuff from China and have really mixed reviews with a lot of negative reviews about it just spraying liquid instead which isn't ideal with electronics. Found one on Amazon that looked professional but zooming into the picture there's multiple spelling mistakes on the can so clearly a very dodgy Chinese knock off again who can't afford a spellchecker so who knows what you're actually getting?

    Any advice on anything I can get that's reliable?

    Don’t shop online. Go to a local hardware store, or even PC World, and buy a compressed air can from there. Use small blasts around the fans, and be aware that the can and the nozzle will freeze with over-use.
    Yeah I dislike PC World as a company, they're generally crap, but even resorted to having a look at Currys (PC World) website but couldn't find anything on their site so was guessing its not something they sell.

    May have to resort to a hardware store.
    This is what I got - NB the name.

    https://colorway.com/en_EU/cleaner/product/CW-3333
  • eekeek Posts: 30,856
    Carnyx said:

    eek said:

    Anabobazina said:


    Flanner said:
    » show previous quotes
    One of the reasons my train connection into London is a million times better than it was in the 1960s is I now have a choice between a 10 minute walk to my own station (with direct trains to Paddington four times more frequent than 60 years ago) and a 15 minute drive to Oxford Parkway (which didn't have a direct connection to London then).

    On both direct trains to London and the complexities of travel to elsewhere in Britain, it's the real choice privatisation has brought that makes the present system so much better than relying entirely on the UK government.

    ––––

    Anabob replied:

    Er, the stations are nationalised. So your post is an example in favour of a state-run railway...

    No

    A few stations are managed by network rail. Most are managed and staffed by the appropriate train operator...
    Hmm, we are really considering capital funding and building ,are we not? Wouldn't be there for the relatively fly by night operator to operate else.
    Most big projects end up with Network Rail funding because the reason for the work will be improvements elsewhere.

    See for example Darlingtom where the benefit is getting Teesside trains off the ECML...
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 63,963
    williamglenn said:

    Keir Starmer trying to score political points over the Letby case seems ill-judged.

    https://twitter.com/Keir_Starmer/status/1693624227600179583

    Rishi is doing the same. Gesture politics of the most feeble sort.

    Starmer is a tedious tactical triangulator.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,631
    BartholomewRoberts said:

    RobD said:

    BartholomewRoberts said:

    Can I please ask the PB Brains Trust for advice on cleaning an internal Laptop fan?

    My Laptop has suddenly become very noisy and I'm pretty certain its one of the fans. Not sure if its the CPU fan, or the GPU fan (gaming Laptop so has dedicated GPU). The noise volume goes up or down, its not consistent, but at its worst its very loud.

    I'm taken the case apart and there was quite a bit of grey dust build-up in the fan so I've cleaned what I can access with cotton wool but its hard to access it properly and its still making a noise.

    I was thinking of getting some compressed air to clean it with, but had a look at Amazon and I can't find any I trust. Everything on Amazon seems to seems to be dodgy stuff from China and have really mixed reviews with a lot of negative reviews about it just spraying liquid instead which isn't ideal with electronics. Found one on Amazon that looked professional but zooming into the picture there's multiple spelling mistakes on the can so clearly a very dodgy Chinese knock off again who can't afford a spellchecker so who knows what you're actually getting?

    Any advice on anything I can get that's reliable?

    I wouldn't take much notice of the reviews, especially as there are some complaining about the can getting too cold (showing a lack of understanding of the ideal gas law). Just buy the first one on the list. It's likely to be compressed air. If not, you've wasted a whole £7.
    The £7 doesn't bother me so much as if I buy some dodgy knock-off crap that sprays something dodgy into the device damaging the device which is worth much more than £7 to me. If its genuinely the right gas, that's fine, but if its not I was concerned what else it could be and if it might be damaging?
    It is extremely unlikely to contain water. What the reviewers are seeing is refrigerant, which will boil into a gas almost immediately upon contact with anything. No risk to your computer, but if you are concerned you could turn it off beforehand.

    I wouldn't be surprised if the stuff you buy from the hardware store is made in the same factory as the stuff you buy online.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 63,963
    kjh said:

    Surrey County Council demonstrating total incompetence. Popped down to the pub and the road was closed. These things happen. Stuff has to be fixed. So I went in the opposite direction to find the road closed that way also. OK must be an emergency then. But no I went on the Surrey County Council web site and both closures were scheduled for the same day.

    The roadsigns on the A31 between Farnham and Guildford are now almost completely obscured by foliage growth that has been allowed to run unchecked for months. Many people have mentioned it to them.

    What on earth is wrong with them?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,241
    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:

    CorrectHorseBat said:

    Starmer leads Sunak by 7%.

    At this moment, which of the following do Britons think would be the better Prime Minister for the UK? (20 August)

    Keir Starmer 40%
    Rishi Sunak 33%

    https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1693656755190812954

    CorrectHorseBat said:



    ...

    I see our pirate is back! Hello friend!
    Those preferred PM numbers if transferred to voting intention give a Labour majority of just 38

    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/fcgi-bin/usercode.py?scotcontrol=Y&CON=33&LAB=40&LIB=11&Reform=2&Green=3&UKIP=&TVCON=&TVLAB=&TVLIB=&TVReform=&TVGreen=&TVUKIP=&SCOTCON=18.3&SCOTLAB=33.3&SCOTLIB=8.3&SCOTReform=0&SCOTGreen=0.7&SCOTUKIP=&SCOTNAT=36.3&display=AllChanged&regorseat=(none)&boundary=2019nbbase
    “999, what’s your emergency?”

    “I’d like to report a crime against psephology”
    "The mayor's on our arse on this one, he says to get Sir John Curtice on the line right now!"
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 5,174
    edited August 2023
    BartholomewRoberts said:

    Can I please ask the PB Brains Trust for advice on cleaning an internal Laptop fan?

    My Laptop has suddenly become very noisy and I'm pretty certain its one of the fans. Not sure if its the CPU fan, or the GPU fan (gaming Laptop so has dedicated GPU). The noise volume goes up or down, its not consistent, but at its worst its very loud.

    I'm taken the case apart and there was quite a bit of grey dust build-up in the fan so I've cleaned what I can access with cotton wool but its hard to access it properly and its still making a noise.

    I was thinking of getting some compressed air to clean it with, but had a look at Amazon and I can't find any I trust. Everything on Amazon seems to seems to be dodgy stuff from China and have really mixed reviews with a lot of negative reviews about it just spraying liquid instead which isn't ideal with electronics. Found one on Amazon that looked professional but zooming into the picture there's multiple spelling mistakes on the can so clearly a very dodgy Chinese knock off again who can't afford a spellchecker so who knows what you're actually getting?

    Any advice on anything I can get that's reliable?

    Are you able to replace it? Might also be worn bearings. Fans are normally dirt cheap. Some laptops aren't too bad to take apart.

    Amazon is a nightmare of rip-offs, Chinese tat and fakes these days, but compressed air is hard to get wrong.

    My usual technique to remove dust is a big hoover with a small nozzle. Maybe risking static if you aren't careful but it works for me.

    For removing gunge, an alcohol based cleaner is fine (or something like this).

  • CorrectHorseBatCorrectHorseBat Posts: 1,761
    edited August 2023
    Casino_Royale said:

    kjh said:

    Surrey County Council demonstrating total incompetence. Popped down to the pub and the road was closed. These things happen. Stuff has to be fixed. So I went in the opposite direction to find the road closed that way also. OK must be an emergency then. But no I went on the Surrey County Council web site and both closures were scheduled for the same day.

    The roadsigns on the A31 between Farnham and Guildford are now almost completely obscured by foliage growth that has been allowed to run unchecked for months. Many people have mentioned it to them.

    What on earth is wrong with them?
    They are utterly useless.

    The A31 between Bentley and Farnham is almost one big pothole nowadays. I note they've also put the speed limit down to a permanent 50 for no reason I can conceive.

    Hants Council are equally useless.

    Can't wait to get back to London...
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 3,443
    FPT: I just skimmed through all the comments, so I may have missed some on-topic ones. But I would be fascinated to hear more of you say whether Our Gracious Host has just tipped you to a good betting opportuinty, or whether he has made a rare error. (Especially if you have backed your opinion with a few pounds.)

    (For the record: I am still undecided what the odds should be, partly because of the Republican Party winner-take-all rules, which make it possible for Trump to win all the delegates from some states, with as little as 30 percent of the primary vote. Had the party used proportional rules everywhere in 2016, it is entirely possible that Trump would have lost the nomination, and that the convention would have chosen a compromise candidate.)
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,728
    Flatlander said:

    BartholomewRoberts said:

    Can I please ask the PB Brains Trust for advice on cleaning an internal Laptop fan?

    My Laptop has suddenly become very noisy and I'm pretty certain its one of the fans. Not sure if its the CPU fan, or the GPU fan (gaming Laptop so has dedicated GPU). The noise volume goes up or down, its not consistent, but at its worst its very loud.

    I'm taken the case apart and there was quite a bit of grey dust build-up in the fan so I've cleaned what I can access with cotton wool but its hard to access it properly and its still making a noise.

    I was thinking of getting some compressed air to clean it with, but had a look at Amazon and I can't find any I trust. Everything on Amazon seems to seems to be dodgy stuff from China and have really mixed reviews with a lot of negative reviews about it just spraying liquid instead which isn't ideal with electronics. Found one on Amazon that looked professional but zooming into the picture there's multiple spelling mistakes on the can so clearly a very dodgy Chinese knock off again who can't afford a spellchecker so who knows what you're actually getting?

    Any advice on anything I can get that's reliable?

    Are you able to replace it? Might also be worn bearings. Fans are normally dirt cheap. Some laptops aren't too bad to take apart.

    Amazon is a nightmare of rip-offs, Chinese tat and fakes these days, but compressed air is hard to get wrong.

    My usual technique to remove dust is a big hoover with a small nozzle. Maybe risking static if you aren't careful but it works for me.

    For removing gunge, an alcohol based cleaner is fine (or something like this).

    I did that - big hoover .... fried my PC.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 63,963
    HYUFD said:

    CorrectHorseBat said:



    ...

    We also built railways and left Westminster style democracy and the rule of law.

    In any case it isn't a matter of just keeping out criminals, immigrants generally fleeing persecution or with skills we need are welcome here
    You almost certainly couldn't find a path to the modern world as it is today, with its liberal internationalist order that didn't go through the British Empire, or something very similar to it.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 66,298
    Casino_Royale said:

    kjh said:

    Surrey County Council demonstrating total incompetence. Popped down to the pub and the road was closed. These things happen. Stuff has to be fixed. So I went in the opposite direction to find the road closed that way also. OK must be an emergency then. But no I went on the Surrey County Council web site and both closures were scheduled for the same day.

    The roadsigns on the A31 between Farnham and Guildford are now almost completely obscured by foliage growth that has been allowed to run unchecked for months. Many people have mentioned it to them.

    What on earth is wrong with them?
    Come to Wales from 17th September and all the 30mph will have shiny new 20mph signs
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 30,679
    BartholomewRoberts said:

    Can I please ask the PB Brains Trust for advice on cleaning an internal Laptop fan?

    My Laptop has suddenly become very noisy and I'm pretty certain its one of the fans. Not sure if its the CPU fan, or the GPU fan (gaming Laptop so has dedicated GPU). The noise volume goes up or down, its not consistent, but at its worst its very loud.

    I'm taken the case apart and there was quite a bit of grey dust build-up in the fan so I've cleaned what I can access with cotton wool but its hard to access it properly and its still making a noise.

    I was thinking of getting some compressed air to clean it with, but had a look at Amazon and I can't find any I trust. Everything on Amazon seems to seems to be dodgy stuff from China and have really mixed reviews with a lot of negative reviews about it just spraying liquid instead which isn't ideal with electronics. Found one on Amazon that looked professional but zooming into the picture there's multiple spelling mistakes on the can so clearly a very dodgy Chinese knock off again who can't afford a spellchecker so who knows what you're actually getting?

    Any advice on anything I can get that's reliable?

    Have you run task manager to check if there is a reason why the fan is going crazy? Is it possible the noise is because the fan is being required to run flat out to stop the CPU going 3 Mile Island?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 60,910
    edited August 2023
    BartholomewRoberts said:

    CorrectHorseBat said:

    One wonders why no other country in the world has copied our privatisation experiment. If it was such a marvellous success people would be lining up to copy it.

    Other nations have privatised their railways. They've just typically done it much better, more thoroughly and a more real privatisation than the bodged half-private, half-public, bidding for rights and subsidised by taxpayer, spiderman-pointing-fingers-at-each-other way it was done here.

    Have a look at Japan for one of the world's most successful networks, that was privatised, operates successfully and privately, takes one of the highest shares of transportation in any country on the planet, and does so with zero subsidies on the mainland.
    IIRC, there are several different (privately owned) Japan Railways companies. One of them used to own a really great Japanese restaurant in St James's London.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 5,174
    Carnyx said:

    Flatlander said:

    BartholomewRoberts said:

    Can I please ask the PB Brains Trust for advice on cleaning an internal Laptop fan?

    My Laptop has suddenly become very noisy and I'm pretty certain its one of the fans. Not sure if its the CPU fan, or the GPU fan (gaming Laptop so has dedicated GPU). The noise volume goes up or down, its not consistent, but at its worst its very loud.

    I'm taken the case apart and there was quite a bit of grey dust build-up in the fan so I've cleaned what I can access with cotton wool but its hard to access it properly and its still making a noise.

    I was thinking of getting some compressed air to clean it with, but had a look at Amazon and I can't find any I trust. Everything on Amazon seems to seems to be dodgy stuff from China and have really mixed reviews with a lot of negative reviews about it just spraying liquid instead which isn't ideal with electronics. Found one on Amazon that looked professional but zooming into the picture there's multiple spelling mistakes on the can so clearly a very dodgy Chinese knock off again who can't afford a spellchecker so who knows what you're actually getting?

    Any advice on anything I can get that's reliable?

    Are you able to replace it? Might also be worn bearings. Fans are normally dirt cheap. Some laptops aren't too bad to take apart.

    Amazon is a nightmare of rip-offs, Chinese tat and fakes these days, but compressed air is hard to get wrong.

    My usual technique to remove dust is a big hoover with a small nozzle. Maybe risking static if you aren't careful but it works for me.

    For removing gunge, an alcohol based cleaner is fine (or something like this).

    I did that - big hoover .... fried my PC.
    Oops! Best not to touch anything with it, although that's pretty unlucky. Dead motherboard?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 63,963
    Sandpit said:

    On topic, Vivek has been gaining in popularity becuase he’s putting himself out there and going dozens of interviews, including people with whom he will disagree, and often in long form rather than five minute soundbites.

    Here’s an hour of a quite combative podcast interview with a slightly stoned Bill Maher, they end up agreeing on more than they disagree. https://youtube.com/watch?v=lrpW-SUchFo

    I haven't seen it but I like your summary.

    I wish there were far more political interviews like this rather than the "gotcha" crap.

    If we deal in substance not soundbites we might start to get more politics of substance.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,728
    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Casino_Royale said:

    kjh said:

    Surrey County Council demonstrating total incompetence. Popped down to the pub and the road was closed. These things happen. Stuff has to be fixed. So I went in the opposite direction to find the road closed that way also. OK must be an emergency then. But no I went on the Surrey County Council web site and both closures were scheduled for the same day.

    The roadsigns on the A31 between Farnham and Guildford are now almost completely obscured by foliage growth that has been allowed to run unchecked for months. Many people have mentioned it to them.

    What on earth is wrong with them?
    Come to Wales from 17th September and all the 30mph will have shiny new 20mph signs
    We all know you love Mr Drakeford to bits, but you do have to admit that some of the 30mph zones will still be there. Don't want to confuse the rUK PBers, do we?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 46,432
    BartholomewRoberts said:

    CorrectHorseBat said:

    One wonders why no other country in the world has copied our privatisation experiment. If it was such a marvellous success people would be lining up to copy it.

    Other nations have privatised their railways. They've just typically done it much better, more thoroughly and a more real privatisation than the bodged half-private, half-public, bidding for rights and subsidised by taxpayer, spiderman-pointing-fingers-at-each-other way it was done here.

    Have a look at Japan for one of the world's most successful networks, that was privatised, operates successfully and privately, takes one of the highest shares of transportation in any country on the planet, and does so with zero subsidies on the mainland.
    AIUI the situation in Japan is much more complex than that. E.g. https://www.economist.com/asia/2020/09/10/japans-rural-railways-are-disappearing
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 66,298
    edited August 2023
    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Casino_Royale said:

    kjh said:

    Surrey County Council demonstrating total incompetence. Popped down to the pub and the road was closed. These things happen. Stuff has to be fixed. So I went in the opposite direction to find the road closed that way also. OK must be an emergency then. But no I went on the Surrey County Council web site and both closures were scheduled for the same day.

    The roadsigns on the A31 between Farnham and Guildford are now almost completely obscured by foliage growth that has been allowed to run unchecked for months. Many people have mentioned it to them.

    What on earth is wrong with them?
    Come to Wales from 17th September and all the 30mph will have shiny new 20mph signs
    I know you are into cycling but I passed a cyclist in a 30 mph area giving him yards of leeway, and as I slowed and indicated for the upcoming roundabout he flashed past me, and cut me up causing me to brake heavily and swerve. I had slowed to 20mph for the roundabout and my wife was very alarmed and angry at his recklessness

    It was all recorded on my dash cam and it is shocking to view it
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,728
    Flatlander said:

    Carnyx said:

    Flatlander said:

    BartholomewRoberts said:

    Can I please ask the PB Brains Trust for advice on cleaning an internal Laptop fan?

    My Laptop has suddenly become very noisy and I'm pretty certain its one of the fans. Not sure if its the CPU fan, or the GPU fan (gaming Laptop so has dedicated GPU). The noise volume goes up or down, its not consistent, but at its worst its very loud.

    I'm taken the case apart and there was quite a bit of grey dust build-up in the fan so I've cleaned what I can access with cotton wool but its hard to access it properly and its still making a noise.

    I was thinking of getting some compressed air to clean it with, but had a look at Amazon and I can't find any I trust. Everything on Amazon seems to seems to be dodgy stuff from China and have really mixed reviews with a lot of negative reviews about it just spraying liquid instead which isn't ideal with electronics. Found one on Amazon that looked professional but zooming into the picture there's multiple spelling mistakes on the can so clearly a very dodgy Chinese knock off again who can't afford a spellchecker so who knows what you're actually getting?

    Any advice on anything I can get that's reliable?

    Are you able to replace it? Might also be worn bearings. Fans are normally dirt cheap. Some laptops aren't too bad to take apart.

    Amazon is a nightmare of rip-offs, Chinese tat and fakes these days, but compressed air is hard to get wrong.

    My usual technique to remove dust is a big hoover with a small nozzle. Maybe risking static if you aren't careful but it works for me.

    For removing gunge, an alcohol based cleaner is fine (or something like this).

    I did that - big hoover .... fried my PC.
    Oops! Best not to touch anything with it, although that's pretty unlucky. Dead motherboard?
    Yes, but (a) fully backed up, (b) old and (c) rather antiquated - good prod to get a custom built new one with extra memory, all hard, and a parallel back up hard drive. So not too many tears.
  • CorrectHorseBatCorrectHorseBat Posts: 1,761
    JosiasJessop said:

    BartholomewRoberts said:

    CorrectHorseBat said:

    One wonders why no other country in the world has copied our privatisation experiment. If it was such a marvellous success people would be lining up to copy it.

    Other nations have privatised their railways. They've just typically done it much better, more thoroughly and a more real privatisation than the bodged half-private, half-public, bidding for rights and subsidised by taxpayer, spiderman-pointing-fingers-at-each-other way it was done here.

    Have a look at Japan for one of the world's most successful networks, that was privatised, operates successfully and privately, takes one of the highest shares of transportation in any country on the planet, and does so with zero subsidies on the mainland.
    AIUI the situation in Japan is much more complex than that. E.g. https://www.economist.com/asia/2020/09/10/japans-rural-railways-are-disappearing
    In Japan they still have state-owned railways and they are entirely run and controlled by the state.

    The UK system's issue is how fragmented it is, thanks to the Tories and then New Labour not fixing it
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 25,524
    Flatlander said:

    BartholomewRoberts said:

    Can I please ask the PB Brains Trust for advice on cleaning an internal Laptop fan?

    My Laptop has suddenly become very noisy and I'm pretty certain its one of the fans. Not sure if its the CPU fan, or the GPU fan (gaming Laptop so has dedicated GPU). The noise volume goes up or down, its not consistent, but at its worst its very loud.

    I'm taken the case apart and there was quite a bit of grey dust build-up in the fan so I've cleaned what I can access with cotton wool but its hard to access it properly and its still making a noise.

    I was thinking of getting some compressed air to clean it with, but had a look at Amazon and I can't find any I trust. Everything on Amazon seems to seems to be dodgy stuff from China and have really mixed reviews with a lot of negative reviews about it just spraying liquid instead which isn't ideal with electronics. Found one on Amazon that looked professional but zooming into the picture there's multiple spelling mistakes on the can so clearly a very dodgy Chinese knock off again who can't afford a spellchecker so who knows what you're actually getting?

    Any advice on anything I can get that's reliable?

    Are you able to replace it? Might also be worn bearings. Fans are normally dirt cheap. Some laptops aren't too bad to take apart.

    Amazon is a nightmare of rip-offs, Chinese tat and fakes these days, but compressed air is hard to get wrong.

    My usual technique to remove dust is a big hoover with a small nozzle. Maybe risking static if you aren't careful but it works for me.

    For removing gunge, an alcohol based cleaner is fine (or something like this).

    If need be I will try and replace it, but I wanted to try other solutions first if viable, especially since everything in the Laptop seems to be quite connected. I've built my own PC before and PC components are generally quite a bit simpler to isolate, but in the Laptop there seem to be multiple things connected to the fan so stripping it apart and replacing elements will be a last sort.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,795
    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Casino_Royale said:

    kjh said:

    Surrey County Council demonstrating total incompetence. Popped down to the pub and the road was closed. These things happen. Stuff has to be fixed. So I went in the opposite direction to find the road closed that way also. OK must be an emergency then. But no I went on the Surrey County Council web site and both closures were scheduled for the same day.

    The roadsigns on the A31 between Farnham and Guildford are now almost completely obscured by foliage growth that has been allowed to run unchecked for months. Many people have mentioned it to them.

    What on earth is wrong with them?
    Come to Wales from 17th September and all the 30mph will have shiny new 20mph signs
    You Can’t Shake the Drake
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 66,298
    Carnyx said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Casino_Royale said:

    kjh said:

    Surrey County Council demonstrating total incompetence. Popped down to the pub and the road was closed. These things happen. Stuff has to be fixed. So I went in the opposite direction to find the road closed that way also. OK must be an emergency then. But no I went on the Surrey County Council web site and both closures were scheduled for the same day.

    The roadsigns on the A31 between Farnham and Guildford are now almost completely obscured by foliage growth that has been allowed to run unchecked for months. Many people have mentioned it to them.

    What on earth is wrong with them?
    Come to Wales from 17th September and all the 30mph will have shiny new 20mph signs
    We all know you love Mr Drakeford to bits, but you do have to admit that some of the 30mph zones will still be there. Don't want to confuse the rUK PBers, do we?
    A very limited number in our area and in some cases they are justified

    However a blanket ban with odd exceptions is unacceptable as local businesses, bus services, and taxis all complain
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 25,524
    CorrectHorseBat said:

    JosiasJessop said:

    BartholomewRoberts said:

    CorrectHorseBat said:

    One wonders why no other country in the world has copied our privatisation experiment. If it was such a marvellous success people would be lining up to copy it.

    Other nations have privatised their railways. They've just typically done it much better, more thoroughly and a more real privatisation than the bodged half-private, half-public, bidding for rights and subsidised by taxpayer, spiderman-pointing-fingers-at-each-other way it was done here.

    Have a look at Japan for one of the world's most successful networks, that was privatised, operates successfully and privately, takes one of the highest shares of transportation in any country on the planet, and does so with zero subsidies on the mainland.
    AIUI the situation in Japan is much more complex than that. E.g. https://www.economist.com/asia/2020/09/10/japans-rural-railways-are-disappearing
    In Japan they still have state-owned railways and they are entirely run and controlled by the state.

    The UK system's issue is how fragmented it is, thanks to the Tories and then New Labour not fixing it
    Japan's is fragmented, but it works, because it was better fragmented than ours. And the state-owned railways aren't for the mainland IIRC, its for the remote islands (so more comparable to Scotland).

    I feel you would be a lot happier with their level of service if it could be achieved here than that achieved either by the semi-private system we have in the UK, or British Rail.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,146
    edited August 2023
    BartholomewRoberts said:

    Flatlander said:

    BartholomewRoberts said:

    Can I please ask the PB Brains Trust for advice on cleaning an internal Laptop fan?

    My Laptop has suddenly become very noisy and I'm pretty certain its one of the fans. Not sure if its the CPU fan, or the GPU fan (gaming Laptop so has dedicated GPU). The noise volume goes up or down, its not consistent, but at its worst its very loud.

    I'm taken the case apart and there was quite a bit of grey dust build-up in the fan so I've cleaned what I can access with cotton wool but its hard to access it properly and its still making a noise.

    I was thinking of getting some compressed air to clean it with, but had a look at Amazon and I can't find any I trust. Everything on Amazon seems to seems to be dodgy stuff from China and have really mixed reviews with a lot of negative reviews about it just spraying liquid instead which isn't ideal with electronics. Found one on Amazon that looked professional but zooming into the picture there's multiple spelling mistakes on the can so clearly a very dodgy Chinese knock off again who can't afford a spellchecker so who knows what you're actually getting?

    Any advice on anything I can get that's reliable?

    Are you able to replace it? Might also be worn bearings. Fans are normally dirt cheap. Some laptops aren't too bad to take apart.

    Amazon is a nightmare of rip-offs, Chinese tat and fakes these days, but compressed air is hard to get wrong.

    My usual technique to remove dust is a big hoover with a small nozzle. Maybe risking static if you aren't careful but it works for me.

    For removing gunge, an alcohol based cleaner is fine (or something like this).

    If need be I will try and replace it, but I wanted to try other solutions first if viable, especially since everything in the Laptop seems to be quite connected. I've built my own PC before and PC components are generally quite a bit simpler to isolate, but in the Laptop there seem to be multiple things connected to the fan so stripping it apart and replacing elements will be a last sort.
    You can normally find good ‘teardown’ videos for most popular laptop models on Youtube, which explain the cables and the correct order of disassembly. Yes they’re an order of magnitude more difficult than a tower PC, and you might need some weird tools for some things. If you can get a model number for the fan, it’s usually easy to find a replacement online at somewhere like Scan.co.uk

    @RochdalePioneers also made a good point above, that if the problem is the fan running flat out all the time, it’s as likely to be a software issue as a hardware one!
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 66,298
    Anabobazina said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Casino_Royale said:

    kjh said:

    Surrey County Council demonstrating total incompetence. Popped down to the pub and the road was closed. These things happen. Stuff has to be fixed. So I went in the opposite direction to find the road closed that way also. OK must be an emergency then. But no I went on the Surrey County Council web site and both closures were scheduled for the same day.

    The roadsigns on the A31 between Farnham and Guildford are now almost completely obscured by foliage growth that has been allowed to run unchecked for months. Many people have mentioned it to them.

    What on earth is wrong with them?
    Come to Wales from 17th September and all the 30mph will have shiny new 20mph signs
    You Can’t Shake the Drake
    He is retiring
This discussion has been closed.

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