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Rishi Sunak’s chopper is going to get him into a lot of trouble – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 11,689
edited August 2023 in General
imageRishi Sunak’s chopper is going to get him into a lot of trouble – politicalbetting.com

Rishi Sunak’s use of helicopters is an issue that really shouldn’t matter in normal circumstances however Sunak’s handling over the issue is proving to be a problem. Watch the video above and listen to a recent interaction between Sunak and a journalist over the use of helicopters.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • Options
    First?
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,907
    edited August 2023
    Second. His diary secretary needs to get him the hell away from the helicopter.

    It reinforces every stereotype about him being very rich and out of touch.
  • Options
    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,637

    First?

    Fudge!
  • Options
    OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,122
    He comes across as elitist and out of touch, because he is.
  • Options
    MiklosvarMiklosvar Posts: 1,855
    It's the tailoring is why I am not voting for him. Look at the length of those trousers.
  • Options
    A ride on the train to Southampton would be an excellent use of Sunak's time. Speak to actual people, hear what they think about issues. Then refine policy and messaging accordingly.

    I've seen the man do it. On the Weymss Bay to Rothesay ferry they did a quick bit of video about their trip then he sat chatting to voters like me.

    So he can do man of the people. He isn't the aloof disconnected idiot some portray him as.
  • Options

    He comes across as elitist and out of touch, because he is.

    Have you spoken to him? I have, and he really isn't. Or at least he wasn't back in 2020...
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,451
    There is only one way to say it.

    Get! To Da! Choppa!

    https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/570dedc6-0872-4692-8a10-d133e70ba64d
  • Options
    The problem isn't Sunak using helicopters.

    The problem is Sunak.

    He sounds petulant, arrogant and out of touch as he is petulant, arrogant and out of touch.
  • Options
    Message from somebody from somebody who knows me and politics.

    'You are absolutely the right person on giving out advice on how to stop looking like an arrogant out of touch elitist.'
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,451
    On the community pantry thing mentioned on the last thread

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/jan/19/community-pantries-local-cooperatives-alternatives-to-food-banks-uk

    It's actually an interesting idea - bit like the communal workshops for bike fixing/learning maintenance.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,451

    Message from somebody from somebody who knows me and politics.

    'You are absolutely the right person on giving out advice on how to stop looking like an arrogant out of touch elitist.'

    But you are too modest to put that in the header, of course.
  • Options
    TimSTimS Posts: 9,653
    Talking of people coming over in boats from France (FPT) I can report that Ireland is absolutely chokka with French tourists. Really hadn’t expected that.

    Comfortably the second largest foreign tourist group in Dublin (after Americans, whom it’s impossible to miss of course), and elsewhere the largest national group. French voices everywhere, Guides Routard tucked under arms. Fascinating.
  • Options
    OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,122

    He comes across as elitist and out of touch, because he is.

    Have you spoken to him? I have, and he really isn't. Or at least he wasn't back in 2020...
    I've never spoken to him but I can listen to the words coming out of his mouth and the tone with which he employs them. I'm sure he can seem very nice in person, almost all politicians do, it's one of the typical characteristics of people who go into this line of work. I have spoken to Boris Johnson and David Cameron, among others, and they were very nice to talk to, but that doesn't stop them from being over-privileged, arrogant w*nkers with no real knowledge of, or interest in, the lives of ordinary people. Sunak is just another posh boy who doesn't know the price of a pint of milk.
  • Options

    Message from somebody from somebody who knows me and politics.

    'You are absolutely the right person on giving out advice on how to stop looking like an arrogant out of touch elitist.'

    But you are too modest to put that in the header, of course.
    Indeed.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,030
    Sunak is an ex Goldman Sachs banker who still thinks in that mindset of what is the quickest way to get somewhere he needs to get business done. However he has to remember in politics unlike high finance, public perception is also an issue.

    Helicopters also are a more dangerous way to travel than cars or trains or planes, in terms of accidents per journey so on that side of things using more non helicopter transportation would also be safer for him
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,451

    Message from somebody from somebody who knows me and politics.

    'You are absolutely the right person on giving out advice on how to stop looking like an arrogant out of touch elitist.'

    But you are too modest to put that in the header, of course.
    Indeed.
    What about some advice on shoes for Sunak that will resonate with the Head Count? You are the obvious choice for that.
  • Options
    MiklosvarMiklosvar Posts: 1,855
    TimS said:

    Talking of people coming over in boats from France (FPT) I can report that Ireland is absolutely chokka with French tourists. Really hadn’t expected that.

    Comfortably the second largest foreign tourist group in Dublin (after Americans, whom it’s impossible to miss of course), and elsewhere the largest national group. French voices everywhere, Guides Routard tucked under arms. Fascinating.

    Never go full Routard.

    Dublin horse show is on, perhaps they are des cavaliers.
  • Options
    Loving this man.

    "I love Bazball!" 🏏

    Tottenham manager Ange Postecoglou heaps praise on the approach of the England cricket team and says it mirrors the attacking philosophy he will have at Spurs ⚽


    https://twitter.com/SkyCricket/status/1690683164392341505
  • Options

    Message from somebody from somebody who knows me and politics.

    'You are absolutely the right person on giving out advice on how to stop looking like an arrogant out of touch elitist.'

    But you are too modest to put that in the header, of course.
    Indeed.
    What about some advice on shoes for Sunak that will resonate with the Head Count? You are the obvious choice for that.
    I need to buy some new trainers and formal shoes, I can combine that into a thread header for Sunak.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,302
    I don’t know whether to apologise for setting Himself off on his latest ill-informed rant or just be glad it’s two threads ago so nobody has to read it unless they want to.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,302

    Message from somebody from somebody who knows me and politics.

    'You are absolutely the right person on giving out advice on how to stop looking like an arrogant out of touch elitist.'

    But you are too modest to put that in the header, of course.
    Indeed.
    What about some advice on shoes for Sunak that will resonate with the Head Count? You are the obvious choice for that.
    I need to buy some new trainers and formal shoes, I can combine that into a thread header for Sunak.
    Combining formal shoes and trainers.

    Which foot would the trainer go on?
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,500
    edited August 2023
    I am glad you are all sticking on topic and focussing on Sunak's chopper.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,803

    I am glad you are all sticking on topic and focussing on Sunak's chopper.

    I'd been trying to spot the promised pun in the previous title ...
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,907
    FPT: left-wing civil war over ULEZ

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/08/13/extinction-rebellion-founder-ulez-tyres-slashed/

    “The founder of Extinction Rebellion has hit out at Sadiq Khan’s ultra-low emissions zone (Ulez) as “intrusive” and “regressive” for the lowest-paid Londoners.

    “Roger Hallam made the comments in a thread on social media site X, in which he also attacked “urban middle-class neo-liberal Left” thinkers behind the Mayor’s road charge.

    “He was responding to a Guardian column by Prof Devi Sridhar that argued in favour of Ulez and low-traffic neighbourhoods (LTNs). Hallam criticised supporters of the schemes for a “total lack of sensitivity and self-awareness”, claiming it showed a “myopic privilege”.”
  • Options
    MiklosvarMiklosvar Posts: 1,855

    He comes across as elitist and out of touch, because he is.

    Have you spoken to him? I have, and he really isn't. Or at least he wasn't back in 2020...
    I've never spoken to him but I can listen to the words coming out of his mouth and the tone with which he employs them. I'm sure he can seem very nice in person, almost all politicians do, it's one of the typical characteristics of people who go into this line of work. I have spoken to Boris Johnson and David Cameron, among others, and they were very nice to talk to, but that doesn't stop them from being over-privileged, arrogant w*nkers with no real knowledge of, or interest in, the lives of ordinary people. Sunak is just another posh boy who doesn't know the price of a pint of milk.
    The out of touch bit is thinking anyone knows the price of a pint of milk, it's a supermarket essential you never buy separately.

    Have you spoken to him? is not a useful question though unless he's going to sit down with each individual voter.
  • Options
    Carnyx said:

    I am glad you are all sticking on topic and focussing on Sunak's chopper.

    I'd been trying to spot the promised pun in the previous title ...
    It's not a pun, it's a subtle innuendo in this headline.
  • Options
    boulayboulay Posts: 3,962
    Surely Rishi misunderstood Boris when Boris said that there is nothing more satisfying in life than using your chopper with abandon.
  • Options
    HYUFD said:

    Sunak is an ex Goldman Sachs banker who still thinks in that mindset of what is the quickest way to get somewhere he needs to get business done. However he has to remember in politics unlike high finance, public perception is also an issue.

    Helicopters also are a more dangerous way to travel than cars or trains or planes, in terms of accidents per journey so on that side of things using more non helicopter transportation would also be safer for him

    It would be in his political interest to stop the use of his helicopter but not being safe is a bizarre reason not least as the Coastguard, Air ambulance, and police fly 24/7 in the course of their work
  • Options
    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,857
    Sunak is the perfect metaphor for a Britain that has sold its public institutions to BlackRock and the Abu Dhabi Investment Fund.

    He is crap, and almost comically jejeune.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,803
    edited August 2023

    Carnyx said:

    I am glad you are all sticking on topic and focussing on Sunak's chopper.

    I'd been trying to spot the promised pun in the previous title ...
    It's not a pun, it's a subtle innuendo in this headline.
    Exactly - spotted it, but didn't realise I had to wait!
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,403
    "Joe" is essentially like Novara Media but for the trendy soft-left as opposed to Corbynistas.
  • Options
    boulayboulay Posts: 3,962

    Sunak is the perfect metaphor for a Britain that has sold its public institutions to BlackRock and the Abu Dhabi Investment Fund.

    He is crap, and almost comically jejeune.

    At least he isn’t jejune.
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,403
    HYUFD said:

    Sunak is an ex Goldman Sachs banker who still thinks in that mindset of what is the quickest way to get somewhere he needs to get business done. However he has to remember in politics unlike high finance, public perception is also an issue.

    Helicopters also are a more dangerous way to travel than cars or trains or planes, in terms of accidents per journey so on that side of things using more non helicopter transportation would also be safer for him

    I'm not sure him not taking planes or helicopters would shift the dial much - unless he takes for them for ludicrous or silly reaons - it's his reaction to the trolling on it that's the issue.

    Which means he'll now get even more of it.
  • Options
    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,009
    Having a WSPS on your helicopter is woke.

    Sunak can't back down from his newly formulated political position of environmental vandalism just yet. It'll need another 2-3 months before the U-turn.
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    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,250
    Sometimes political figures get on the wrong side of things and nothing they do can change it. Looks like it might have happened with Rishi Sunak. I don't know what to suggest really.
  • Options
    P
    Miklosvar said:

    He comes across as elitist and out of touch, because he is.

    Have you spoken to him? I have, and he really isn't. Or at least he wasn't back in 2020...
    I've never spoken to him but I can listen to the words coming out of his mouth and the tone with which he employs them. I'm sure he can seem very nice in person, almost all politicians do, it's one of the typical characteristics of people who go into this line of work. I have spoken to Boris Johnson and David Cameron, among others, and they were very nice to talk to, but that doesn't stop them from being over-privileged, arrogant w*nkers with no real knowledge of, or interest in, the lives of ordinary people. Sunak is just another posh boy who doesn't know the price of a pint of milk.
    The out of touch bit is thinking anyone knows the price of a pint of milk, it's a supermarket essential you never buy separately.

    Have you spoken to him? is not a useful question though unless he's going to sit down with each individual voter.
    £1.65 for 4 pints, down from £1.75 for 4 pints a few weeks ago.

    I absolutely do pick it up off the shelf separately from other items (I might pick up butter or cream on same aisle, but only one item at a time normally) and see the price when I do.

    People who have to budget tend to check prices as they go along.
  • Options
    Miklosvar said:

    He comes across as elitist and out of touch, because he is.

    Have you spoken to him? I have, and he really isn't. Or at least he wasn't back in 2020...
    I've never spoken to him but I can listen to the words coming out of his mouth and the tone with which he employs them. I'm sure he can seem very nice in person, almost all politicians do, it's one of the typical characteristics of people who go into this line of work. I have spoken to Boris Johnson and David Cameron, among others, and they were very nice to talk to, but that doesn't stop them from being over-privileged, arrogant w*nkers with no real knowledge of, or interest in, the lives of ordinary people. Sunak is just another posh boy who doesn't know the price of a pint of milk.
    The out of touch bit is thinking anyone knows the price of a pint of milk, it's a supermarket essential you never buy separately.

    Have you spoken to him? is not a useful question though unless he's going to sit down with each individual voter.
    The price of milk is perhaps the only thing which is bought regularly, near universally and has little variation in quantity and quality.

    Bread can vary from 40p to over £2.

    A tin of beans or a pack of teabags varies depending on type and brand and isn't bought by as many.

    Housing costs are much larger for those who have them but many don't and also vary considerably for those who do.

    Similarly for transport costs.
  • Options
    Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 2,759
    Carnyx said:

    I am glad you are all sticking on topic and focussing on Sunak's chopper.

    I'd been trying to spot the promised pun in the previous title ...
    Same every Sunday. A scintillating play on words, or some pun.
  • Options

    Miklosvar said:

    He comes across as elitist and out of touch, because he is.

    Have you spoken to him? I have, and he really isn't. Or at least he wasn't back in 2020...
    I've never spoken to him but I can listen to the words coming out of his mouth and the tone with which he employs them. I'm sure he can seem very nice in person, almost all politicians do, it's one of the typical characteristics of people who go into this line of work. I have spoken to Boris Johnson and David Cameron, among others, and they were very nice to talk to, but that doesn't stop them from being over-privileged, arrogant w*nkers with no real knowledge of, or interest in, the lives of ordinary people. Sunak is just another posh boy who doesn't know the price of a pint of milk.
    The out of touch bit is thinking anyone knows the price of a pint of milk, it's a supermarket essential you never buy separately.

    Have you spoken to him? is not a useful question though unless he's going to sit down with each individual voter.
    The price of milk is perhaps the only thing which is bought regularly, near universally and has little variation in quantity and quality.

    Bread can vary from 40p to over £2.

    A tin of beans or a pack of teabags varies depending on type and brand and isn't bought by as many.

    Housing costs are much larger for those who have them but many don't and also vary considerably for those who do.

    Similarly for transport costs.
    Milk varies dramatically based on bottle size though.

    A 2 pint bottle costs most of the price of a 4 pint bottle. I wouldn't dream of paying for a 1 pint bottle, total waste of money that.
  • Options

    HYUFD said:

    Sunak is an ex Goldman Sachs banker who still thinks in that mindset of what is the quickest way to get somewhere he needs to get business done. However he has to remember in politics unlike high finance, public perception is also an issue.

    Helicopters also are a more dangerous way to travel than cars or trains or planes, in terms of accidents per journey so on that side of things using more non helicopter transportation would also be safer for him

    I'm not sure him not taking planes or helicopters would shift the dial much - unless he takes for them for ludicrous or silly reaons - it's his reaction to the trolling on it that's the issue.

    Which means he'll now get even more of it.
    Exactly. He could never take another chopper again, and he'll just face trolling on something else.

    And he'll react in a petulant manner to that as that's how he is. He lacks a charming self deprecating manner that can disarm such attacks.

    If it's not this issue, it'll be something else. The issue is him.
  • Options

    P

    Miklosvar said:

    He comes across as elitist and out of touch, because he is.

    Have you spoken to him? I have, and he really isn't. Or at least he wasn't back in 2020...
    I've never spoken to him but I can listen to the words coming out of his mouth and the tone with which he employs them. I'm sure he can seem very nice in person, almost all politicians do, it's one of the typical characteristics of people who go into this line of work. I have spoken to Boris Johnson and David Cameron, among others, and they were very nice to talk to, but that doesn't stop them from being over-privileged, arrogant w*nkers with no real knowledge of, or interest in, the lives of ordinary people. Sunak is just another posh boy who doesn't know the price of a pint of milk.
    The out of touch bit is thinking anyone knows the price of a pint of milk, it's a supermarket essential you never buy separately.

    Have you spoken to him? is not a useful question though unless he's going to sit down with each individual voter.
    £1.65 for 4 pints, down from £1.75 for 4 pints a few weeks ago.

    I absolutely do pick it up off the shelf separately from other items (I might pick up butter or cream on same aisle, but only one item at a time normally) and see the price when I do.

    People who have to budget tend to check prices as they go along.
    Not just those who have to budget but anyone who likes to get value for the money they spend.

    A pound not spent every week is the equivalent to the interest that would be received from having another £2k in the bank.
  • Options
    MiklosvarMiklosvar Posts: 1,855

    Miklosvar said:

    He comes across as elitist and out of touch, because he is.

    Have you spoken to him? I have, and he really isn't. Or at least he wasn't back in 2020...
    I've never spoken to him but I can listen to the words coming out of his mouth and the tone with which he employs them. I'm sure he can seem very nice in person, almost all politicians do, it's one of the typical characteristics of people who go into this line of work. I have spoken to Boris Johnson and David Cameron, among others, and they were very nice to talk to, but that doesn't stop them from being over-privileged, arrogant w*nkers with no real knowledge of, or interest in, the lives of ordinary people. Sunak is just another posh boy who doesn't know the price of a pint of milk.
    The out of touch bit is thinking anyone knows the price of a pint of milk, it's a supermarket essential you never buy separately.

    Have you spoken to him? is not a useful question though unless he's going to sit down with each individual voter.
    The price of milk is perhaps the only thing which is bought regularly, near universally and has little variation in quantity and quality.

    Bread can vary from 40p to over £2.

    A tin of beans or a pack of teabags varies depending on type and brand and isn't bought by as many.

    Housing costs are much larger for those who have them but many don't and also vary considerably for those who do.

    Similarly for transport costs.
    Milk varies dramatically based on bottle size though.

    A 2 pint bottle costs most of the price of a 4 pint bottle. I wouldn't dream of paying for a 1 pint bottle, total waste of money that.
    63p to £1.45 per litre on Morrisons website. The fact they price in itres is telling. The question dates from 50 years ago when milk was just milk and came only by the pint (except the little bottles snatched by mags)
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,707
    O/T

    "Review: Topaz Video AI – A Wonder at Deinterlacing and Up-scaling Video"

    https://larryjordan.com/articles/review-topaz-video-ai-a-deinterlace-and-up-scale-wonder
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    Miklosvar said:

    He comes across as elitist and out of touch, because he is.

    Have you spoken to him? I have, and he really isn't. Or at least he wasn't back in 2020...
    I've never spoken to him but I can listen to the words coming out of his mouth and the tone with which he employs them. I'm sure he can seem very nice in person, almost all politicians do, it's one of the typical characteristics of people who go into this line of work. I have spoken to Boris Johnson and David Cameron, among others, and they were very nice to talk to, but that doesn't stop them from being over-privileged, arrogant w*nkers with no real knowledge of, or interest in, the lives of ordinary people. Sunak is just another posh boy who doesn't know the price of a pint of milk.
    The out of touch bit is thinking anyone knows the price of a pint of milk, it's a supermarket essential you never buy separately.

    Have you spoken to him? is not a useful question though unless he's going to sit down with each individual voter.
    The price of milk is perhaps the only thing which is bought regularly, near universally and has little variation in quantity and quality.

    Bread can vary from 40p to over £2.

    A tin of beans or a pack of teabags varies depending on type and brand and isn't bought by as many.

    Housing costs are much larger for those who have them but many don't and also vary considerably for those who do.

    Similarly for transport costs.
    Milk varies dramatically based on bottle size though.

    A 2 pint bottle costs most of the price of a 4 pint bottle. I wouldn't dream of paying for a 1 pint bottle, total waste of money that.
    Certainly but the range is effectively 1, 2, 4 or 6 pints with each at the same price irrespective if they're blue, green or red.

    And the only variation in 'quality' being organic.

    Compare against the multitude of varieties of bread, beans, cheese, cereal or tea.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,451
    ydoethur said:

    Message from somebody from somebody who knows me and politics.

    'You are absolutely the right person on giving out advice on how to stop looking like an arrogant out of touch elitist.'

    But you are too modest to put that in the header, of course.
    Indeed.
    What about some advice on shoes for Sunak that will resonate with the Head Count? You are the obvious choice for that.
    I need to buy some new trainers and formal shoes, I can combine that into a thread header for Sunak.
    Combining formal shoes and trainers.

    Which foot would the trainer go on?
    That would depend on whether @TSE is a Protestant Hindu or a Catholic Hindu*

    *Yes, I know.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,451

    Miklosvar said:

    He comes across as elitist and out of touch, because he is.

    Have you spoken to him? I have, and he really isn't. Or at least he wasn't back in 2020...
    I've never spoken to him but I can listen to the words coming out of his mouth and the tone with which he employs them. I'm sure he can seem very nice in person, almost all politicians do, it's one of the typical characteristics of people who go into this line of work. I have spoken to Boris Johnson and David Cameron, among others, and they were very nice to talk to, but that doesn't stop them from being over-privileged, arrogant w*nkers with no real knowledge of, or interest in, the lives of ordinary people. Sunak is just another posh boy who doesn't know the price of a pint of milk.
    The out of touch bit is thinking anyone knows the price of a pint of milk, it's a supermarket essential you never buy separately.

    Have you spoken to him? is not a useful question though unless he's going to sit down with each individual voter.
    The price of milk is perhaps the only thing which is bought regularly, near universally and has little variation in quantity and quality.

    Bread can vary from 40p to over £2.

    A tin of beans or a pack of teabags varies depending on type and brand and isn't bought by as many.

    Housing costs are much larger for those who have them but many don't and also vary considerably for those who do.

    Similarly for transport costs.
    I recall Cameron monstering an interviewer who tried that on him. He asked her what kind of bread - then discussed the price of various loaves from ultra cheap cotton wool white to fresh baked. He made the interviewer seem extremely badly prepared. And utterly ignorant of the price of bread.

    IIRC no one tried that one again, on him.
  • Options
    Brentford v Spurs

    +11 minutes first half extra time !!!
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 24,992

    Miklosvar said:

    He comes across as elitist and out of touch, because he is.

    Have you spoken to him? I have, and he really isn't. Or at least he wasn't back in 2020...
    I've never spoken to him but I can listen to the words coming out of his mouth and the tone with which he employs them. I'm sure he can seem very nice in person, almost all politicians do, it's one of the typical characteristics of people who go into this line of work. I have spoken to Boris Johnson and David Cameron, among others, and they were very nice to talk to, but that doesn't stop them from being over-privileged, arrogant w*nkers with no real knowledge of, or interest in, the lives of ordinary people. Sunak is just another posh boy who doesn't know the price of a pint of milk.
    The out of touch bit is thinking anyone knows the price of a pint of milk, it's a supermarket essential you never buy separately.

    Have you spoken to him? is not a useful question though unless he's going to sit down with each individual voter.
    The price of milk is perhaps the only thing which is bought regularly, near universally and has little variation in quantity and quality.

    Bread can vary from 40p to over £2.

    A tin of beans or a pack of teabags varies depending on type and brand and isn't bought by as many.

    Housing costs are much larger for those who have them but many don't and also vary considerably for those who do.

    Similarly for transport costs.
    I recall Cameron monstering an interviewer who tried that on him. He asked her what kind of bread - then discussed the price of various loaves from ultra cheap cotton wool white to fresh baked. He made the interviewer seem extremely badly prepared. And utterly ignorant of the price of bread.

    IIRC no one tried that one again, on him.
    Yep - the price of bread is a stupid question because it has so many different answers from 40pence to over £5.

    And that is up (at Treasury) north so we are just talking the prices in a small market town...
  • Options
    pm215pm215 Posts: 936

    HYUFD said:

    Sunak is an ex Goldman Sachs banker who still thinks in that mindset of what is the quickest way to get somewhere he needs to get business done. However he has to remember in politics unlike high finance, public perception is also an issue.

    Helicopters also are a more dangerous way to travel than cars or trains or planes, in terms of accidents per journey so on that side of things using more non helicopter transportation would also be safer for him

    It would be in his political interest to stop the use of his helicopter but not being safe is a bizarre reason not least as the Coastguard, Air ambulance, and police fly 24/7 in the course of their work
    Those are all jobs where people accept increased risk in pursuit of doing an important job to society better, though (both in helicopter use and in other ways). It's less clear that Sunak does a better job as PM because he uses a helicopter, and if the benefit is less then the degree to which the risk is reasonable changes.

    In any case the risk question would be better answered by looking at how much more the risk is compared to other things you regularly do and whether it exceeds your personal risk tolerance.

  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,451
    Sandpit said:

    FPT: left-wing civil war over ULEZ

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/08/13/extinction-rebellion-founder-ulez-tyres-slashed/

    “The founder of Extinction Rebellion has hit out at Sadiq Khan’s ultra-low emissions zone (Ulez) as “intrusive” and “regressive” for the lowest-paid Londoners.

    “Roger Hallam made the comments in a thread on social media site X, in which he also attacked “urban middle-class neo-liberal Left” thinkers behind the Mayor’s road charge.

    “He was responding to a Guardian column by Prof Devi Sridhar that argued in favour of Ulez and low-traffic neighbourhoods (LTNs). Hallam criticised supporters of the schemes for a “total lack of sensitivity and self-awareness”, claiming it showed a “myopic privilege”.”

    Stopped Clock Alert.

    A flat price and a hard edged zone for solution is a poor taxation method. It doesn't encourage all the behaviours we want and targets the wrong groups.

    Why is it that an EV Hummer is nearly free of taxation?
  • Options

    Miklosvar said:

    He comes across as elitist and out of touch, because he is.

    Have you spoken to him? I have, and he really isn't. Or at least he wasn't back in 2020...
    I've never spoken to him but I can listen to the words coming out of his mouth and the tone with which he employs them. I'm sure he can seem very nice in person, almost all politicians do, it's one of the typical characteristics of people who go into this line of work. I have spoken to Boris Johnson and David Cameron, among others, and they were very nice to talk to, but that doesn't stop them from being over-privileged, arrogant w*nkers with no real knowledge of, or interest in, the lives of ordinary people. Sunak is just another posh boy who doesn't know the price of a pint of milk.
    The out of touch bit is thinking anyone knows the price of a pint of milk, it's a supermarket essential you never buy separately.

    Have you spoken to him? is not a useful question though unless he's going to sit down with each individual voter.
    The price of milk is perhaps the only thing which is bought regularly, near universally and has little variation in quantity and quality.

    Bread can vary from 40p to over £2.

    A tin of beans or a pack of teabags varies depending on type and brand and isn't bought by as many.

    Housing costs are much larger for those who have them but many don't and also vary considerably for those who do.

    Similarly for transport costs.
    Milk varies dramatically based on bottle size though.

    A 2 pint bottle costs most of the price of a 4 pint bottle. I wouldn't dream of paying for a 1 pint bottle, total waste of money that.
    Certainly but the range is effectively 1, 2, 4 or 6 pints with each at the same price irrespective if they're blue, green or red.

    And the only variation in 'quality' being organic.

    Compare against the multitude of varieties of bread, beans, cheese, cereal or tea.
    For normal people that is the range yes.

    Though there's also the Cravendale-style filtered milk which typically comes in a 2L bottle shaped like a 4 pint bottle to mask how expensive it is.

    And that's before we get into UHT or Almond/Soy etc "milks"
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,848
    edited August 2023
    Rishi Sunak travelled to Southampton using a taxpayer-funded helicopter, Downing Street has admitted, despite the journey taking just over an hour on the train.’

    Ahem. that assumes no waiting time. The shortest train time (direct from Waterloo to Soton Cent) is 1hr 25, but you will not arrive immediately the train departs. Assume 15-30 mins waiting time for train to be platformed and for you to get on. Then at Soton Cent you'd have to get a taxi to wherever you are going.

    So door-to-door I'd assume at least 2hrs, assume 2.5 on the safe side.

    Incidentally Waterloo has a bookstore (Foyles) altho it is being refurbished. There are not many places in Waterloo for a nice sit down and a read, as everything is overpriced and not set up for the single reader. It does have a (grrr) coffee shop full of overpriced drinks I don't really understand, but it did (and I think it's reopened) have a nice sushi place which has nice sushi and seats upstairs where it isn't too loud.
  • Options
    MiklosvarMiklosvar Posts: 1,855

    Miklosvar said:

    He comes across as elitist and out of touch, because he is.

    Have you spoken to him? I have, and he really isn't. Or at least he wasn't back in 2020...
    I've never spoken to him but I can listen to the words coming out of his mouth and the tone with which he employs them. I'm sure he can seem very nice in person, almost all politicians do, it's one of the typical characteristics of people who go into this line of work. I have spoken to Boris Johnson and David Cameron, among others, and they were very nice to talk to, but that doesn't stop them from being over-privileged, arrogant w*nkers with no real knowledge of, or interest in, the lives of ordinary people. Sunak is just another posh boy who doesn't know the price of a pint of milk.
    The out of touch bit is thinking anyone knows the price of a pint of milk, it's a supermarket essential you never buy separately.

    Have you spoken to him? is not a useful question though unless he's going to sit down with each individual voter.
    The price of milk is perhaps the only thing which is bought regularly, near universally and has little variation in quantity and quality.

    Bread can vary from 40p to over £2.

    A tin of beans or a pack of teabags varies depending on type and brand and isn't bought by as many.

    Housing costs are much larger for those who have them but many don't and also vary considerably for those who do.

    Similarly for transport costs.
    I recall Cameron monstering an interviewer who tried that on him. He asked her what kind of bread - then discussed the price of various loaves from ultra cheap cotton wool white to fresh baked. He made the interviewer seem extremely badly prepared. And utterly ignorant of the price of bread.

    IIRC no one tried that one again, on him.
    Straight out of the monty python playbook - African or European swallow laden or unladen etc
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,451
    viewcode said:

    Rishi Sunak travelled to Southampton using a taxpayer-funded helicopter, Downing Street has admitted, despite the journey taking just over an hour on the train.’

    Ahem. that assumes no waiting time. The shortest train time (direct from Waterloo to Soton Cent) is 1hr 25, but you will not arrive immediately the train departs. Assume 15-30 mins waiting time for train to be platformed and for you to get on. Then at Soton Cent you'd have to get a taxi to wherever you are going.

    So door-to-door I'd assume at least 2hrs, assume 2.5 on the safe side.

    Incidentally Waterloo has a bookstore (Foyles) altho it is being refurbished. There are not many places in Waterloo for a nice sit down and a read, as everything is overpriced and not set up for the single reader. It does have a (grrr) coffee shop full of overpriced drinks I don't really understand, but it did (and I think it's reopened) have a nice sushi place which has nice sushi and seats upstairs where it isn't too loud.

    All coffee chains do "Black Coffee", if you simply ask for that.
  • Options
    Brentford v Spurs

    First half lasted 56 minutes
  • Options
    CookieCookie Posts: 11,452

    P

    Miklosvar said:

    He comes across as elitist and out of touch, because he is.

    Have you spoken to him? I have, and he really isn't. Or at least he wasn't back in 2020...
    I've never spoken to him but I can listen to the words coming out of his mouth and the tone with which he employs them. I'm sure he can seem very nice in person, almost all politicians do, it's one of the typical characteristics of people who go into this line of work. I have spoken to Boris Johnson and David Cameron, among others, and they were very nice to talk to, but that doesn't stop them from being over-privileged, arrogant w*nkers with no real knowledge of, or interest in, the lives of ordinary people. Sunak is just another posh boy who doesn't know the price of a pint of milk.
    The out of touch bit is thinking anyone knows the price of a pint of milk, it's a supermarket essential you never buy separately.

    Have you spoken to him? is not a useful question though unless he's going to sit down with each individual voter.
    £1.65 for 4 pints, down from £1.75 for 4 pints a few weeks ago.

    I absolutely do pick it up off the shelf separately from other items (I might pick up butter or cream on same aisle, but only one item at a time normally) and see the price when I do.

    People who have to budget tend to check prices as they go along.
    Not just those who have to budget but anyone who likes to get value for the money they spend.

    A pound not spent every week is the equivalent to the interest that would be received from having another £2k in the bank.
    Yes, I'm with Bart here. I'm pretty good in knowing what should cost what in the supermarket.
    But that's because I do the shopping in this house. My wife is much less good at knowing what things should cost. But much better at sorting out technical issues. There will be a certain amount of specialisation in families; I wouldn't expect everyone to be good at everything.

    Talking of which: it's Sunday afternoon, and I need to go to Tesco before God's strangely arbitrary limitations on opening hours for large shops kick in.
  • Options
    Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 4,816

    HYUFD said:

    Sunak is an ex Goldman Sachs banker who still thinks in that mindset of what is the quickest way to get somewhere he needs to get business done. However he has to remember in politics unlike high finance, public perception is also an issue.

    Helicopters also are a more dangerous way to travel than cars or trains or planes, in terms of accidents per journey so on that side of things using more non helicopter transportation would also be safer for him

    It would be in his political interest to stop the use of his helicopter but not being safe is a bizarre reason not least as the Coastguard, Air ambulance, and police fly 24/7 in the course of their work
    It's not totally irrelevant. I irc, helicopters are broadly in the same magnitude of per mile safety as cars, maybe 1.5x safer, but you can rack up an absolute ton of miles in them quickly. Sales rep is a measurably less safe job than sitting in a local office, and jobs that rack up helicopter miles - jockeys, rally drivers, sports club owners, police etc, have all had helicopter fatalities (I'll not include offshore here as helicopters are not the only danger of such a job). I'm sure the PMs helicopter arrangements put him at the safe end of that industry, but it's got to be a practical, if not a political, consideration.
  • Options

    Sandpit said:

    FPT: left-wing civil war over ULEZ

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/08/13/extinction-rebellion-founder-ulez-tyres-slashed/

    “The founder of Extinction Rebellion has hit out at Sadiq Khan’s ultra-low emissions zone (Ulez) as “intrusive” and “regressive” for the lowest-paid Londoners.

    “Roger Hallam made the comments in a thread on social media site X, in which he also attacked “urban middle-class neo-liberal Left” thinkers behind the Mayor’s road charge.

    “He was responding to a Guardian column by Prof Devi Sridhar that argued in favour of Ulez and low-traffic neighbourhoods (LTNs). Hallam criticised supporters of the schemes for a “total lack of sensitivity and self-awareness”, claiming it showed a “myopic privilege”.”

    Stopped Clock Alert.

    A flat price and a hard edged zone for solution is a poor taxation method. It doesn't encourage all the behaviours we want and targets the wrong groups.

    Why is it that an EV Hummer is nearly free of taxation?
    Because an EV Hummer is zero emissions. Why should it face taxation?

    With you until the final question though. The issue is that a flat priced charge taxes the wrong thing.

    Why is it that a diesel car that drives 7 miles each way to work and back pays the same or similar charges to a personal hire vehicle, taxi, van, delivery car or bus etc that is driving hundreds of miles each day?

    If you want to cut emissions then targeting personal cars is about the worst possible way to do it. Targeting professional vehicles that are driving around all day, every day, is far more bang for your buck.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,451
    Miklosvar said:

    Miklosvar said:

    He comes across as elitist and out of touch, because he is.

    Have you spoken to him? I have, and he really isn't. Or at least he wasn't back in 2020...
    I've never spoken to him but I can listen to the words coming out of his mouth and the tone with which he employs them. I'm sure he can seem very nice in person, almost all politicians do, it's one of the typical characteristics of people who go into this line of work. I have spoken to Boris Johnson and David Cameron, among others, and they were very nice to talk to, but that doesn't stop them from being over-privileged, arrogant w*nkers with no real knowledge of, or interest in, the lives of ordinary people. Sunak is just another posh boy who doesn't know the price of a pint of milk.
    The out of touch bit is thinking anyone knows the price of a pint of milk, it's a supermarket essential you never buy separately.

    Have you spoken to him? is not a useful question though unless he's going to sit down with each individual voter.
    The price of milk is perhaps the only thing which is bought regularly, near universally and has little variation in quantity and quality.

    Bread can vary from 40p to over £2.

    A tin of beans or a pack of teabags varies depending on type and brand and isn't bought by as many.

    Housing costs are much larger for those who have them but many don't and also vary considerably for those who do.

    Similarly for transport costs.
    I recall Cameron monstering an interviewer who tried that on him. He asked her what kind of bread - then discussed the price of various loaves from ultra cheap cotton wool white to fresh baked. He made the interviewer seem extremely badly prepared. And utterly ignorant of the price of bread.

    IIRC no one tried that one again, on him.
    Straight out of the monty python playbook - African or European swallow laden or unladen etc
    I really want to find the interview - I forget the interviewer. It was one of those occasions when Cameron let himself off the leash. You could see what he was thinking - "You want to paint me as out of touch, eh? Bet you haven't bought a loaf of bread yourself in a years - you're on the mid-six figures lifestyle. Ok then."
  • Options
    pm215pm215 Posts: 936

    I recall Cameron monstering an interviewer who tried that on him. He asked her what kind of bread - then discussed the price of various loaves from ultra cheap cotton wool white to fresh baked. He made the interviewer seem extremely badly prepared. And utterly ignorant of the price of bread.

    IIRC no one tried that one again, on him.

    I bet he had a very similar answer prepared for milk, too. As a gotcha question it's so well known now that it's mostly showing lack of preparation rather than anything specific.

    I feel like there's a pretty wide range of wealth levels that are high enough not to specifically track bread and milk prices while still not being seriously wealthy anyway -- for that kind of staple which doesn't make up a large proportion of overall spend, my guess is that once you're above the level where you have to budget individual items you pick your quality level (cheapest possible, supermarket own brand, in store bakery, fancy, etc) and then stick with it most of the time. I look at prices when I'm stood in front of the shelf deciding on X vs Y sometimes but I forget the exact values once I've chosen...
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,451

    Sandpit said:

    FPT: left-wing civil war over ULEZ

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/08/13/extinction-rebellion-founder-ulez-tyres-slashed/

    “The founder of Extinction Rebellion has hit out at Sadiq Khan’s ultra-low emissions zone (Ulez) as “intrusive” and “regressive” for the lowest-paid Londoners.

    “Roger Hallam made the comments in a thread on social media site X, in which he also attacked “urban middle-class neo-liberal Left” thinkers behind the Mayor’s road charge.

    “He was responding to a Guardian column by Prof Devi Sridhar that argued in favour of Ulez and low-traffic neighbourhoods (LTNs). Hallam criticised supporters of the schemes for a “total lack of sensitivity and self-awareness”, claiming it showed a “myopic privilege”.”

    Stopped Clock Alert.

    A flat price and a hard edged zone for solution is a poor taxation method. It doesn't encourage all the behaviours we want and targets the wrong groups.

    Why is it that an EV Hummer is nearly free of taxation?
    Because an EV Hummer is zero emissions. Why should it face taxation?

    With you until the final question though. The issue is that a flat priced charge taxes the wrong thing.

    Why is it that a diesel car that drives 7 miles each way to work and back pays the same or similar charges to a personal hire vehicle, taxi, van, delivery car or bus etc that is driving hundreds of miles each day?

    If you want to cut emissions then targeting personal cars is about the worst possible way to do it. Targeting professional vehicles that are driving around all day, every day, is far more bang for your buck.
    No congestion charge - a huge car definitely will make traffic worse than someone running a Corsa.

    No parking - either free parking for EV, or free parking to charge.

    No road tax....
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,848
    edited August 2023
    kinabalu said:

    Sometimes political figures get on the wrong side of things and nothing they do can change it. Looks like it might have happened with Rishi Sunak. I don't know what to suggest really.

    "...There are times, perhaps once every thirty years, when there is a sea-change in politics. It then does not matter what you say or what you do. There is a shift in what the public wants and what it approves of. I suspect there is now such a sea-change and it is for Mrs. Thatcher..."

    Former Prime Minister James Callaghan on the general election of 1979, quoted in Kenneth Morgan, Callaghan: A Life (1997), p. 697, see https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/James_Callaghan
  • Options
    boulay said:

    Surely Rishi misunderstood Boris when Boris said that there is nothing more satisfying in life than using your chopper with abandon.

    Or indeed use your chopper and then abandon.
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,848

    viewcode said:

    Rishi Sunak travelled to Southampton using a taxpayer-funded helicopter, Downing Street has admitted, despite the journey taking just over an hour on the train.’

    Ahem. that assumes no waiting time. The shortest train time (direct from Waterloo to Soton Cent) is 1hr 25, but you will not arrive immediately the train departs. Assume 15-30 mins waiting time for train to be platformed and for you to get on. Then at Soton Cent you'd have to get a taxi to wherever you are going.

    So door-to-door I'd assume at least 2hrs, assume 2.5 on the safe side.

    Incidentally Waterloo has a bookstore (Foyles) altho it is being refurbished. There are not many places in Waterloo for a nice sit down and a read, as everything is overpriced and not set up for the single reader. It does have a (grrr) coffee shop full of overpriced drinks I don't really understand, but it did (and I think it's reopened) have a nice sushi place which has nice sushi and seats upstairs where it isn't too loud.

    All coffee chains do "Black Coffee", if you simply ask for that.
    I don't like black coffee. I want coffee with milk. There is a translation from posh coffee to normal human coffee but I've forgotten what it is. If you know how to get normal coffee with normal milk, in the correct proportions, without the coffee looking like somebody spat in it, I would be grateful.
  • Options
    CatManCatMan Posts: 2,772
    Cookie said:

    P

    Miklosvar said:

    He comes across as elitist and out of touch, because he is.

    Have you spoken to him? I have, and he really isn't. Or at least he wasn't back in 2020...
    I've never spoken to him but I can listen to the words coming out of his mouth and the tone with which he employs them. I'm sure he can seem very nice in person, almost all politicians do, it's one of the typical characteristics of people who go into this line of work. I have spoken to Boris Johnson and David Cameron, among others, and they were very nice to talk to, but that doesn't stop them from being over-privileged, arrogant w*nkers with no real knowledge of, or interest in, the lives of ordinary people. Sunak is just another posh boy who doesn't know the price of a pint of milk.
    The out of touch bit is thinking anyone knows the price of a pint of milk, it's a supermarket essential you never buy separately.

    Have you spoken to him? is not a useful question though unless he's going to sit down with each individual voter.
    £1.65 for 4 pints, down from £1.75 for 4 pints a few weeks ago.

    I absolutely do pick it up off the shelf separately from other items (I might pick up butter or cream on same aisle, but only one item at a time normally) and see the price when I do.

    People who have to budget tend to check prices as they go along.
    Not just those who have to budget but anyone who likes to get value for the money they spend.

    A pound not spent every week is the equivalent to the interest that would be received from having another £2k in the bank.
    Yes, I'm with Bart here. I'm pretty good in knowing what should cost what in the supermarket.
    But that's because I do the shopping in this house. My wife is much less good at knowing what things should cost. But much better at sorting out technical issues. There will be a certain amount of specialisation in families; I wouldn't expect everyone to be good at everything.

    Talking of which: it's Sunday afternoon, and I need to go to Tesco before God's strangely arbitrary limitations on opening hours for large shops kick in.
    It's the SNPs fault, or Tory MPs in the 80s:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shops_Bill_1986
  • Options
    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Rishi Sunak travelled to Southampton using a taxpayer-funded helicopter, Downing Street has admitted, despite the journey taking just over an hour on the train.’

    Ahem. that assumes no waiting time. The shortest train time (direct from Waterloo to Soton Cent) is 1hr 25, but you will not arrive immediately the train departs. Assume 15-30 mins waiting time for train to be platformed and for you to get on. Then at Soton Cent you'd have to get a taxi to wherever you are going.

    So door-to-door I'd assume at least 2hrs, assume 2.5 on the safe side.

    Incidentally Waterloo has a bookstore (Foyles) altho it is being refurbished. There are not many places in Waterloo for a nice sit down and a read, as everything is overpriced and not set up for the single reader. It does have a (grrr) coffee shop full of overpriced drinks I don't really understand, but it did (and I think it's reopened) have a nice sushi place which has nice sushi and seats upstairs where it isn't too loud.

    All coffee chains do "Black Coffee", if you simply ask for that.
    I don't like black coffee. I want coffee with milk. There is a translation from posh coffee to normal human coffee but I've forgotten what it is. If you know how to get normal coffee with normal milk, in the correct proportions, without the coffee looking like somebody spat in it, I would be grateful.
    So a white coffee. All coffee chains do that too. You can just ask for a white coffee, or white "Americano".

    Incidentally expensive coffee isn't actually that ridiculously expensive. Tea is the great rip off when eating or drinking out, as far as raw cost as a proportion of your cost is concerned.

    Coffee made from beans is simply far more expensive than instant coffee. There's a variety of reasons why, but it's a much better product too. Even just for black coffee, and even at home, it is far more expensive.

    A latte etc is a lot of milk, on top of the beans, and as we've been discussing milk isn't free either.

    A tea on the other hand is about 7p to make.
  • Options
    CookieCookie Posts: 11,452
    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Rishi Sunak travelled to Southampton using a taxpayer-funded helicopter, Downing Street has admitted, despite the journey taking just over an hour on the train.’

    Ahem. that assumes no waiting time. The shortest train time (direct from Waterloo to Soton Cent) is 1hr 25, but you will not arrive immediately the train departs. Assume 15-30 mins waiting time for train to be platformed and for you to get on. Then at Soton Cent you'd have to get a taxi to wherever you are going.

    So door-to-door I'd assume at least 2hrs, assume 2.5 on the safe side.

    Incidentally Waterloo has a bookstore (Foyles) altho it is being refurbished. There are not many places in Waterloo for a nice sit down and a read, as everything is overpriced and not set up for the single reader. It does have a (grrr) coffee shop full of overpriced drinks I don't really understand, but it did (and I think it's reopened) have a nice sushi place which has nice sushi and seats upstairs where it isn't too loud.

    All coffee chains do "Black Coffee", if you simply ask for that.
    I don't like black coffee. I want coffee with milk. There is a translation from posh coffee to normal human coffee but I've forgotten what it is. If you know how to get normal coffee with normal milk, in the correct proportions, without the coffee looking like somebody spat in it, I would be grateful.
    Lack of normal coffee is a bugbear of mine. Some coffee shops do indeed do filter coffee, though often they are strangely reluctant to admit to it. But many just don't. Pret, in Piccadilly Gardens, for example. "We haven't got room for it. Do you want an Americano?". No. I don't want a British version of an Italian version of an American version of coffee, which is going to take you two minutes to make from your massive machine and which you're going to charge me £3.50 for. I just want a normal coffee.
  • Options
    TimS said:

    Talking of people coming over in boats from France (FPT) I can report that Ireland is absolutely chokka with French tourists. Really hadn’t expected that.

    Comfortably the second largest foreign tourist group in Dublin (after Americans, whom it’s impossible to miss of course), and elsewhere the largest national group. French voices everywhere, Guides Routard tucked under arms. Fascinating.

    August so everyone in France is on holiday. The south (and most of the middle) of France, traditional holiday place, got very, very hot last summer which has probably put some people off. Ireland is in the EU unlike certain other nearby English-speaking countries.
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,848
    It's Perun day! Today's present in War Santa's sack is:

    Perun: 20230813: Theories of Victory & Russian Political Stability - Interviewing Anders Puck Nielsen
  • Options
    viewcode said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sometimes political figures get on the wrong side of things and nothing they do can change it. Looks like it might have happened with Rishi Sunak. I don't know what to suggest really.

    "...There are times, perhaps once every thirty years, when there is a sea-change in politics. It then does not matter what you say or what you do. There is a shift in what the public wants and what it approves of. I suspect there is now such a sea-change and it is for Mrs. Thatcher..."

    Former Prime Minister James Callaghan on the general election of 1979, quoted in Kenneth Morgan, Callaghan: A Life (1997), p. 697, see https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/James_Callaghan
    That is very similar to an observation in Blair's memoirs to the effect that when things are going well you can get away with anything, and when they are going badly, nothing works.
  • Options
    BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 18,726
    edited August 2023
    Cookie said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Rishi Sunak travelled to Southampton using a taxpayer-funded helicopter, Downing Street has admitted, despite the journey taking just over an hour on the train.’

    Ahem. that assumes no waiting time. The shortest train time (direct from Waterloo to Soton Cent) is 1hr 25, but you will not arrive immediately the train departs. Assume 15-30 mins waiting time for train to be platformed and for you to get on. Then at Soton Cent you'd have to get a taxi to wherever you are going.

    So door-to-door I'd assume at least 2hrs, assume 2.5 on the safe side.

    Incidentally Waterloo has a bookstore (Foyles) altho it is being refurbished. There are not many places in Waterloo for a nice sit down and a read, as everything is overpriced and not set up for the single reader. It does have a (grrr) coffee shop full of overpriced drinks I don't really understand, but it did (and I think it's reopened) have a nice sushi place which has nice sushi and seats upstairs where it isn't too loud.

    All coffee chains do "Black Coffee", if you simply ask for that.
    I don't like black coffee. I want coffee with milk. There is a translation from posh coffee to normal human coffee but I've forgotten what it is. If you know how to get normal coffee with normal milk, in the correct proportions, without the coffee looking like somebody spat in it, I would be grateful.
    Lack of normal coffee is a bugbear of mine. Some coffee shops do indeed do filter coffee, though often they are strangely reluctant to admit to it. But many just don't. Pret, in Piccadilly Gardens, for example. "We haven't got room for it. Do you want an Americano?". No. I don't want a British version of an Italian version of an American version of coffee, which is going to take you two minutes to make from your massive machine and which you're going to charge me £3.50 for. I just want a normal coffee.
    Then use a kettle at home and get a flask to put your coffee into.

    They're making real coffee, from beans, why would they offer you instant or filter instead? Like going into Greggs and asking for a Fish and Chips, it's a different product that's not what they're selling.
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,848

    viewcode said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sometimes political figures get on the wrong side of things and nothing they do can change it. Looks like it might have happened with Rishi Sunak. I don't know what to suggest really.

    "...There are times, perhaps once every thirty years, when there is a sea-change in politics. It then does not matter what you say or what you do. There is a shift in what the public wants and what it approves of. I suspect there is now such a sea-change and it is for Mrs. Thatcher..."

    Former Prime Minister James Callaghan on the general election of 1979, quoted in Kenneth Morgan, Callaghan: A Life (1997), p. 697, see https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/James_Callaghan
    That is very similar to an observation in Blair's memoirs to the effect that when things are going well you can get away with anything, and when they are going badly, nothing works.
    ..and God knows Blair proved it... :(
  • Options
    CatManCatMan Posts: 2,772

    TimS said:

    Talking of people coming over in boats from France (FPT) I can report that Ireland is absolutely chokka with French tourists. Really hadn’t expected that.

    Comfortably the second largest foreign tourist group in Dublin (after Americans, whom it’s impossible to miss of course), and elsewhere the largest national group. French voices everywhere, Guides Routard tucked under arms. Fascinating.

    August so everyone in France is on holiday. The south (and most of the middle) of France, traditional holiday place, got very, very hot last summer which has probably put some people off. Ireland is in the EU unlike certain other nearby English-speaking countries.
    And thanks to the Northern Ireland Protocol, they can sneak into the UK and no one would ever know :naughty:
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,451
    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Rishi Sunak travelled to Southampton using a taxpayer-funded helicopter, Downing Street has admitted, despite the journey taking just over an hour on the train.’

    Ahem. that assumes no waiting time. The shortest train time (direct from Waterloo to Soton Cent) is 1hr 25, but you will not arrive immediately the train departs. Assume 15-30 mins waiting time for train to be platformed and for you to get on. Then at Soton Cent you'd have to get a taxi to wherever you are going.

    So door-to-door I'd assume at least 2hrs, assume 2.5 on the safe side.

    Incidentally Waterloo has a bookstore (Foyles) altho it is being refurbished. There are not many places in Waterloo for a nice sit down and a read, as everything is overpriced and not set up for the single reader. It does have a (grrr) coffee shop full of overpriced drinks I don't really understand, but it did (and I think it's reopened) have a nice sushi place which has nice sushi and seats upstairs where it isn't too loud.

    All coffee chains do "Black Coffee", if you simply ask for that.
    I don't like black coffee. I want coffee with milk. There is a translation from posh coffee to normal human coffee but I've forgotten what it is. If you know how to get normal coffee with normal milk, in the correct proportions, without the coffee looking like somebody spat in it, I would be grateful.
    Ask for coffee with milk.

    All the big chains went through a spate of people demanding simple coffees back in the 90s.
  • Options
    pm215pm215 Posts: 936


    Incidentally expensive coffee isn't actually that ridiculously expensive. Tea is the great rip off when eating or drinking out, as far as raw cost as a proportion of your cost is concerned.

    Coffee made from beans is simply far more expensive than instant coffee. There's a variety of reasons why, but it's a much better product too. Even just for black coffee, and even at home, it is far more expensive.

    Also the espresso based drinks require fairly expensive equipment for grinding the beans and making the coffee, and AIUI espresso is also quite a finicky way to prepare coffee -- requires careful attention to quantities, temperatures and times for good results, compared to filter or cafetiere which have much higher tolerances for variation in the process without drifting out of the range of decent results.

    Entirely agreed about tea -- I'd feel better about it if you were at least getting loose leaf tea, but it's almost always just a teabag in a pot...
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,803
    CatMan said:

    TimS said:

    Talking of people coming over in boats from France (FPT) I can report that Ireland is absolutely chokka with French tourists. Really hadn’t expected that.

    Comfortably the second largest foreign tourist group in Dublin (after Americans, whom it’s impossible to miss of course), and elsewhere the largest national group. French voices everywhere, Guides Routard tucked under arms. Fascinating.

    August so everyone in France is on holiday. The south (and most of the middle) of France, traditional holiday place, got very, very hot last summer which has probably put some people off. Ireland is in the EU unlike certain other nearby English-speaking countries.
    And thanks to the Northern Ireland Protocol, they can sneak into the UK and no one would ever know :naughty:
    Indeed. I pointed this out about a decade ago on PB when Brexit looked like being a thing and was monstered for it. Apparently the UKG relies on public-spirited informants or something.
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,229
    It looks like rather a modestly sized chopper.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,451

    Cookie said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Rishi Sunak travelled to Southampton using a taxpayer-funded helicopter, Downing Street has admitted, despite the journey taking just over an hour on the train.’

    Ahem. that assumes no waiting time. The shortest train time (direct from Waterloo to Soton Cent) is 1hr 25, but you will not arrive immediately the train departs. Assume 15-30 mins waiting time for train to be platformed and for you to get on. Then at Soton Cent you'd have to get a taxi to wherever you are going.

    So door-to-door I'd assume at least 2hrs, assume 2.5 on the safe side.

    Incidentally Waterloo has a bookstore (Foyles) altho it is being refurbished. There are not many places in Waterloo for a nice sit down and a read, as everything is overpriced and not set up for the single reader. It does have a (grrr) coffee shop full of overpriced drinks I don't really understand, but it did (and I think it's reopened) have a nice sushi place which has nice sushi and seats upstairs where it isn't too loud.

    All coffee chains do "Black Coffee", if you simply ask for that.
    I don't like black coffee. I want coffee with milk. There is a translation from posh coffee to normal human coffee but I've forgotten what it is. If you know how to get normal coffee with normal milk, in the correct proportions, without the coffee looking like somebody spat in it, I would be grateful.
    Lack of normal coffee is a bugbear of mine. Some coffee shops do indeed do filter coffee, though often they are strangely reluctant to admit to it. But many just don't. Pret, in Piccadilly Gardens, for example. "We haven't got room for it. Do you want an Americano?". No. I don't want a British version of an Italian version of an American version of coffee, which is going to take you two minutes to make from your massive machine and which you're going to charge me £3.50 for. I just want a normal coffee.
    Then use a kettle at home and get a flask to put your coffee into.

    They're making real coffee, from beans, why would they offer you instant or filter instead? Like going into Greggs and asking for a Fish and Chips, it's a different product that's not what they're selling.
    If you really want, you can find places that do proper French style filter coffee.

    I recall finding an original “caff” in the true old style. They had a coffee boiler that sat bubbling all day. Probably about 10 gallons in it. When someone order a coffee, they would pour one from the tap. Then the lady running the place would tip more water and instant coffee in at the top. Pure battery acid, that was.
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,848
    Cookie said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Rishi Sunak travelled to Southampton using a taxpayer-funded helicopter, Downing Street has admitted, despite the journey taking just over an hour on the train.’

    Ahem. that assumes no waiting time. The shortest train time (direct from Waterloo to Soton Cent) is 1hr 25, but you will not arrive immediately the train departs. Assume 15-30 mins waiting time for train to be platformed and for you to get on. Then at Soton Cent you'd have to get a taxi to wherever you are going.

    So door-to-door I'd assume at least 2hrs, assume 2.5 on the safe side.

    Incidentally Waterloo has a bookstore (Foyles) altho it is being refurbished. There are not many places in Waterloo for a nice sit down and a read, as everything is overpriced and not set up for the single reader. It does have a (grrr) coffee shop full of overpriced drinks I don't really understand, but it did (and I think it's reopened) have a nice sushi place which has nice sushi and seats upstairs where it isn't too loud.

    All coffee chains do "Black Coffee", if you simply ask for that.
    I don't like black coffee. I want coffee with milk. There is a translation from posh coffee to normal human coffee but I've forgotten what it is. If you know how to get normal coffee with normal milk, in the correct proportions, without the coffee looking like somebody spat in it, I would be grateful.
    Lack of normal coffee is a bugbear of mine. Some coffee shops do indeed do filter coffee, though often they are strangely reluctant to admit to it. But many just don't. Pret, in Piccadilly Gardens, for example. "We haven't got room for it. Do you want an Americano?". No. I don't want a British version of an Italian version of an American version of coffee, which is going to take you two minutes to make from your massive machine and which you're going to charge me £3.50 for. I just want a normal coffee.
    Unfortunately the PB machine will only permit me to give you one like. Please accept many more spiritually.
  • Options
    Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,510
    edited August 2023
    Two thoughts: First, when George W. Bush was running the Texas Rangers, he sometimes sat in the cheap seats so he could hear from ordinary fans. That may be one of the many reasons he was elected Texas governor twice, and president twice.

    Second, it has been routine for American presidents to fly in helicopters, for practical reasons, since 1957: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marine_One
    (Among other things: A presidential motorcade can screw up traffic in an area for hours.)

    So, PM Sunak should spend some time listening to ordinary voters -- and take helicopter rides, when appropriate.

    (But I can understand TSE's thinking: I'd like to have a helicopter, too, and am envious of those who do have them.)
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,848

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Rishi Sunak travelled to Southampton using a taxpayer-funded helicopter, Downing Street has admitted, despite the journey taking just over an hour on the train.’

    Ahem. that assumes no waiting time. The shortest train time (direct from Waterloo to Soton Cent) is 1hr 25, but you will not arrive immediately the train departs. Assume 15-30 mins waiting time for train to be platformed and for you to get on. Then at Soton Cent you'd have to get a taxi to wherever you are going.

    So door-to-door I'd assume at least 2hrs, assume 2.5 on the safe side.

    Incidentally Waterloo has a bookstore (Foyles) altho it is being refurbished. There are not many places in Waterloo for a nice sit down and a read, as everything is overpriced and not set up for the single reader. It does have a (grrr) coffee shop full of overpriced drinks I don't really understand, but it did (and I think it's reopened) have a nice sushi place which has nice sushi and seats upstairs where it isn't too loud.

    All coffee chains do "Black Coffee", if you simply ask for that.
    I don't like black coffee. I want coffee with milk. There is a translation from posh coffee to normal human coffee but I've forgotten what it is. If you know how to get normal coffee with normal milk, in the correct proportions, without the coffee looking like somebody spat in it, I would be grateful.
    Ask for coffee with milk.

    All the big chains went through a spate of people demanding simple coffees back in the 90s.
    Yes, but the people who staff them weren't born in the 90's. However will try
  • Options
    MiklosvarMiklosvar Posts: 1,855
    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Rishi Sunak travelled to Southampton using a taxpayer-funded helicopter, Downing Street has admitted, despite the journey taking just over an hour on the train.’

    Ahem. that assumes no waiting time. The shortest train time (direct from Waterloo to Soton Cent) is 1hr 25, but you will not arrive immediately the train departs. Assume 15-30 mins waiting time for train to be platformed and for you to get on. Then at Soton Cent you'd have to get a taxi to wherever you are going.

    So door-to-door I'd assume at least 2hrs, assume 2.5 on the safe side.

    Incidentally Waterloo has a bookstore (Foyles) altho it is being refurbished. There are not many places in Waterloo for a nice sit down and a read, as everything is overpriced and not set up for the single reader. It does have a (grrr) coffee shop full of overpriced drinks I don't really understand, but it did (and I think it's reopened) have a nice sushi place which has nice sushi and seats upstairs where it isn't too loud.

    All coffee chains do "Black Coffee", if you simply ask for that.
    I don't like black coffee. I want coffee with milk. There is a translation from posh coffee to normal human coffee but I've forgotten what it is. If you know how to get normal coffee with normal milk, in the correct proportions, without the coffee looking like somebody spat in it, I would be grateful.
    Ask for coffee with milk.

    All the big chains went through a spate of people demanding simple coffees back in the 90s.
    Yes, but the people who staff them weren't born in the 90's. However will try
    Filter coffee is the code
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,451
    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Rishi Sunak travelled to Southampton using a taxpayer-funded helicopter, Downing Street has admitted, despite the journey taking just over an hour on the train.’

    Ahem. that assumes no waiting time. The shortest train time (direct from Waterloo to Soton Cent) is 1hr 25, but you will not arrive immediately the train departs. Assume 15-30 mins waiting time for train to be platformed and for you to get on. Then at Soton Cent you'd have to get a taxi to wherever you are going.

    So door-to-door I'd assume at least 2hrs, assume 2.5 on the safe side.

    Incidentally Waterloo has a bookstore (Foyles) altho it is being refurbished. There are not many places in Waterloo for a nice sit down and a read, as everything is overpriced and not set up for the single reader. It does have a (grrr) coffee shop full of overpriced drinks I don't really understand, but it did (and I think it's reopened) have a nice sushi place which has nice sushi and seats upstairs where it isn't too loud.

    All coffee chains do "Black Coffee", if you simply ask for that.
    I don't like black coffee. I want coffee with milk. There is a translation from posh coffee to normal human coffee but I've forgotten what it is. If you know how to get normal coffee with normal milk, in the correct proportions, without the coffee looking like somebody spat in it, I would be grateful.
    Ask for coffee with milk.

    All the big chains went through a spate of people demanding simple coffees back in the 90s.
    Yes, but the people who staff them weren't born in the 90's. However will try
    I’ve been told by younger relatives who work in coffee shops as a student jobs that it is the manuals for most of them.

    If they don’t have filter coffee, they will simply do an Americano when asked for a black coffee. And add milk for a white coffee.
  • Options
    CookieCookie Posts: 11,452

    Cookie said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Rishi Sunak travelled to Southampton using a taxpayer-funded helicopter, Downing Street has admitted, despite the journey taking just over an hour on the train.’

    Ahem. that assumes no waiting time. The shortest train time (direct from Waterloo to Soton Cent) is 1hr 25, but you will not arrive immediately the train departs. Assume 15-30 mins waiting time for train to be platformed and for you to get on. Then at Soton Cent you'd have to get a taxi to wherever you are going.

    So door-to-door I'd assume at least 2hrs, assume 2.5 on the safe side.

    Incidentally Waterloo has a bookstore (Foyles) altho it is being refurbished. There are not many places in Waterloo for a nice sit down and a read, as everything is overpriced and not set up for the single reader. It does have a (grrr) coffee shop full of overpriced drinks I don't really understand, but it did (and I think it's reopened) have a nice sushi place which has nice sushi and seats upstairs where it isn't too loud.

    All coffee chains do "Black Coffee", if you simply ask for that.
    I don't like black coffee. I want coffee with milk. There is a translation from posh coffee to normal human coffee but I've forgotten what it is. If you know how to get normal coffee with normal milk, in the
    correct proportions, without the coffee looking like somebody spat in it, I would be grateful.
    Lack of normal coffee is a bugbear of mine. Some coffee shops do indeed do filter coffee, though often they are strangely reluctant to admit to it. But many just don't. Pret, in Piccadilly Gardens, for example. "We haven't got room for it. Do you want an Americano?". No. I don't want a British version of an Italian version of an American version of coffee, which is going to take you two minutes to make from your massive machine and which you're going to charge me £3.50 for. I just want a normal coffee.
    Then use a kettle at home and get a flask to put your coffee into.

    They're making real coffee, from beans, why would they offer you instant or filter instead? Like going into Greggs and asking for a Fish and Chips, it's a different product that's not what they're selling.
    Filter (or batch) is very different from instant though. It's made from beans. And then filtered.
    I'm not asking for them to do anything out of the ordinary. Grind the beans and make the coffee. No need to tit about with milk or steam. The analogy would be like going into Greggs hoping for a sandwich, but finding there were no options for themnot to toast your sandwich.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,451
    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Rishi Sunak travelled to Southampton using a taxpayer-funded helicopter, Downing Street has admitted, despite the journey taking just over an hour on the train.’

    Ahem. that assumes no waiting time. The shortest train time (direct from Waterloo to Soton Cent) is 1hr 25, but you will not arrive immediately the train departs. Assume 15-30 mins waiting time for train to be platformed and for you to get on. Then at Soton Cent you'd have to get a taxi to wherever you are going.

    So door-to-door I'd assume at least 2hrs, assume 2.5 on the safe side.

    Incidentally Waterloo has a bookstore (Foyles) altho it is being refurbished. There are not many places in Waterloo for a nice sit down and a read, as everything is overpriced and not set up for the single reader. It does have a (grrr) coffee shop full of overpriced drinks I don't really understand, but it did (and I think it's reopened) have a nice sushi place which has nice sushi and seats upstairs where it isn't too loud.

    All coffee chains do "Black Coffee", if you simply ask for that.
    I don't like black coffee. I want coffee with milk. There is a translation from posh coffee to normal human coffee but I've forgotten what it is. If you know how to get normal coffee with normal milk, in the
    correct proportions, without the coffee looking like somebody spat in it, I would be grateful.
    Lack of normal coffee is a bugbear of mine. Some coffee shops do indeed do filter coffee, though often they are strangely reluctant to admit to it. But many just don't. Pret, in Piccadilly Gardens, for example. "We haven't got room for it. Do you want an Americano?". No. I don't want a British version of an Italian version of an American version of coffee, which is going to take you two minutes to make from your massive machine and which you're going to charge me £3.50 for. I just want a normal coffee.
    Then use a kettle at home and get a flask to put your coffee into.

    They're making real coffee, from beans, why would they offer you instant or filter instead? Like going into Greggs and asking for a Fish and Chips, it's a different product that's not what they're selling.
    Filter (or batch) is very different from instant though. It's made from beans. And then filtered.
    I'm not asking for them to do anything out of the ordinary. Grind the beans and make the coffee. No need to tit about with milk or steam. The analogy would be like going into Greggs hoping for a sandwich, but finding there were no options for themnot to toast your sandwich.
    Instant isn’t coffee. Any more than pissing in a church is praying.
  • Options
    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Rishi Sunak travelled to Southampton using a taxpayer-funded helicopter, Downing Street has admitted, despite the journey taking just over an hour on the train.’

    Ahem. that assumes no waiting time. The shortest train time (direct from Waterloo to Soton Cent) is 1hr 25, but you will not arrive immediately the train departs. Assume 15-30 mins waiting time for train to be platformed and for you to get on. Then at Soton Cent you'd have to get a taxi to wherever you are going.

    So door-to-door I'd assume at least 2hrs, assume 2.5 on the safe side.

    Incidentally Waterloo has a bookstore (Foyles) altho it is being refurbished. There are not many places in Waterloo for a nice sit down and a read, as everything is overpriced and not set up for the single reader. It does have a (grrr) coffee shop full of overpriced drinks I don't really understand, but it did (and I think it's reopened) have a nice sushi place which has nice sushi and seats upstairs where it isn't too loud.

    All coffee chains do "Black Coffee", if you simply ask for that.
    I don't like black coffee. I want coffee with milk. There is a translation from posh coffee to normal human coffee but I've forgotten what it is. If you know how to get normal coffee with normal milk, in the
    correct proportions, without the coffee looking like somebody spat in it, I would be grateful.
    Lack of normal coffee is a bugbear of mine. Some coffee shops do indeed do filter coffee, though often they are strangely reluctant to admit to it. But many just don't. Pret, in Piccadilly Gardens, for example. "We haven't got room for it. Do you want an Americano?". No. I don't want a British version of an Italian version of an American version of coffee, which is going to take you two minutes to make from your massive machine and which you're going to charge me £3.50 for. I just want a normal coffee.
    Then use a kettle at home and get a flask to put your coffee into.

    They're making real coffee, from beans, why would they offer you instant or filter instead? Like going into Greggs and asking for a Fish and Chips, it's a different product that's not what they're selling.
    Filter (or batch) is very different from instant though. It's made from beans. And then filtered.
    I'm not asking for them to do anything out of the ordinary. Grind the beans and make the coffee. No need to tit about with milk or steam. The analogy would be like going into Greggs hoping for a sandwich, but finding there were no options for themnot to toast your sandwich.
    No milk or steam in an Americano (which is just espresso with lots of water to make a full cup of coffee), though that normally is made by the machine from ground beans rather than filtered. That's just pressurised water though, not steam or milk.

    To get the most from a good espresso requires water pressure. That's something most filters lack, so yes they are different things.
  • Options
    CookieCookie Posts: 11,452
    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Rishi Sunak travelled to Southampton using a taxpayer-funded helicopter, Downing Street has admitted, despite the journey taking just over an hour on the train.’

    Ahem. that assumes no waiting time. The shortest train time (direct from Waterloo to Soton Cent) is 1hr 25, but you will not arrive immediately the train departs. Assume 15-30 mins waiting time for train to be platformed and for you to get on. Then at Soton Cent you'd have to get a taxi to wherever you are going.

    So door-to-door I'd assume at least 2hrs, assume 2.5 on the safe side.

    Incidentally Waterloo has a bookstore (Foyles) altho it is being refurbished. There are not many places in Waterloo for a nice sit down and a read, as everything is overpriced and not set up for the single reader. It does have a (grrr) coffee shop full of overpriced drinks I don't really understand, but it did (and I think it's reopened) have a nice sushi place which has nice sushi and seats upstairs where it isn't too loud.

    All coffee chains do "Black Coffee", if you simply ask for that.
    I don't like black coffee. I want coffee with milk. There is a translation from posh coffee to normal human coffee but I've forgotten what it is. If you know how to get normal coffee with normal milk, in the
    correct proportions, without the coffee looking like somebody spat in it, I would be grateful.
    Lack of normal coffee is a bugbear of mine. Some coffee shops do indeed do filter coffee, though often they are strangely reluctant to admit to it. But many just don't. Pret, in Piccadilly Gardens, for example. "We haven't got room for it. Do you want an Americano?". No. I don't want a British version of an Italian version of an American version of coffee, which is going to take you two minutes to make from your massive machine and which you're going to charge me £3.50 for. I just want a normal coffee.
    Then use a kettle at home and get a flask to put your coffee into.

    They're making real coffee, from beans, why would they offer you instant or filter instead? Like going into Greggs and asking for a Fish and Chips, it's a different product that's not what they're selling.
    Filter (or batch) is very different from instant though. It's made from beans. And then filtered.
    I'm not asking for them to do anything out of the ordinary. Grind the beans and make the coffee. No need to tit about with milk or steam. The analogy would be like going into Greggs hoping for a sandwich, but finding there were no options for themnot to toast your sandwich.
    All that said, mind, your suggestion of bringing a thermos is never not a good idea.
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,403
    I know the price of a pint of beer to the penny.

    Absolutely no idea for milk, even though I buy a lot of it. Milkman charges a bit more I think.
  • Options

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Rishi Sunak travelled to Southampton using a taxpayer-funded helicopter, Downing Street has admitted, despite the journey taking just over an hour on the train.’

    Ahem. that assumes no waiting time. The shortest train time (direct from Waterloo to Soton Cent) is 1hr 25, but you will not arrive immediately the train departs. Assume 15-30 mins waiting time for train to be platformed and for you to get on. Then at Soton Cent you'd have to get a taxi to wherever you are going.

    So door-to-door I'd assume at least 2hrs, assume 2.5 on the safe side.

    Incidentally Waterloo has a bookstore (Foyles) altho it is being refurbished. There are not many places in Waterloo for a nice sit down and a read, as everything is overpriced and not set up for the single reader. It does have a (grrr) coffee shop full of overpriced drinks I don't really understand, but it did (and I think it's reopened) have a nice sushi place which has nice sushi and seats upstairs where it isn't too loud.

    All coffee chains do "Black Coffee", if you simply ask for that.
    I don't like black coffee. I want coffee with milk. There is a translation from posh coffee to normal human coffee but I've forgotten what it is. If you know how to get normal coffee with normal milk, in the
    correct proportions, without the coffee looking like somebody spat in it, I would be grateful.
    Lack of normal coffee is a bugbear of mine. Some coffee shops do indeed do filter coffee, though often they are strangely reluctant to admit to it. But many just don't. Pret, in Piccadilly Gardens, for example. "We haven't got room for it. Do you want an Americano?". No. I don't want a British version of an Italian version of an American version of coffee, which is going to take you two minutes to make from your massive machine and which you're going to charge me £3.50 for. I just want a normal coffee.
    Then use a kettle at home and get a flask to put your coffee into.

    They're making real coffee, from beans, why would they offer you instant or filter instead? Like going into Greggs and asking for a Fish and Chips, it's a different product that's not what they're selling.
    Filter (or batch) is very different from instant though. It's made from beans. And then filtered.
    I'm not asking for them to do anything out of the ordinary. Grind the beans and make the coffee. No need to tit about with milk or steam. The analogy would be like going into Greggs hoping for a sandwich, but finding there were no options for themnot to toast your sandwich.
    Instant isn’t coffee. Any more than pissing in a church is praying.
    There's a similarity between this discussion and Monty Python's spam sketch, but in reverse.

    There's all sorts of ways to make coffee from espresso so lots of choices (including Americano if you just want a tall, black coffee, and a white Americano if you want that with a splash of milk).

    But some people long for the simpler days of just spam being the option.

    Most restaurants have moved away from spam as their meat now. And have moved on from instant/filter coffee typically too. Thank goodness!
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,451
    Carnyx said:

    CatMan said:

    TimS said:

    Talking of people coming over in boats from France (FPT) I can report that Ireland is absolutely chokka with French tourists. Really hadn’t expected that.

    Comfortably the second largest foreign tourist group in Dublin (after Americans, whom it’s impossible to miss of course), and elsewhere the largest national group. French voices everywhere, Guides Routard tucked under arms. Fascinating.

    August so everyone in France is on holiday. The south (and most of the middle) of France, traditional holiday place, got very, very hot last summer which has probably put some people off. Ireland is in the EU unlike certain other nearby English-speaking countries.
    And thanks to the Northern Ireland Protocol, they can sneak into the UK and no one would ever know :naughty:
    Indeed. I pointed this out about a decade ago on PB when Brexit looked like being a thing and was monstered for it. Apparently the UKG relies on public-spirited informants or something.
    No, they rely on the JoyJoy place that Northern Ireland is.

    Given a choice between the funkier bits of El Salvador and the Falls Road.... I mean, you'll get shot/robbed/beaten in both places, but there's more chance of a good Mojito in El Salvador. Rather than some 2-1 Happy Hour special in a basement bar in a "social club" off the Falls.
  • Options
    pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,132
    Coffee is revolting muck. A nice cup of tea is infinitely preferable.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,451
    pigeon said:

    Coffee is revolting muck. A nice cup of tea is infinitely preferable.

    Tea is mud. And responsible for the downfall of the British Empire.
  • Options
    CookieCookie Posts: 11,452

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Rishi Sunak travelled to Southampton using a taxpayer-funded helicopter, Downing Street has admitted, despite the journey taking just over an hour on the train.’

    Ahem. that assumes no waiting time. The shortest train time (direct from Waterloo to Soton Cent) is 1hr 25, but you will not arrive immediately the train departs. Assume 15-30 mins waiting time for train to be platformed and for you to get on. Then at Soton Cent you'd have to get a taxi to wherever you are going.

    So door-to-door I'd assume at least 2hrs, assume 2.5 on the safe side.

    Incidentally Waterloo has a bookstore (Foyles) altho it is being refurbished. There are not many places in Waterloo for a nice sit down and a read, as everything is overpriced and not set up for the single reader. It does have a (grrr) coffee shop full of overpriced drinks I don't really understand, but it did (and I think it's reopened) have a nice sushi place which has nice sushi and seats upstairs where it isn't too loud.

    All coffee chains do "Black Coffee", if you simply ask for that.
    I don't like black coffee. I want coffee with milk. There is a translation from posh coffee to normal human coffee but I've forgotten what it is. If you know how to get normal coffee with normal milk, in the
    correct proportions, without the coffee looking like somebody spat in it, I would be grateful.
    Lack of normal coffee is a bugbear of mine. Some coffee shops do indeed do filter coffee, though often they are strangely reluctant to admit to it. But many just don't. Pret, in Piccadilly Gardens, for example. "We haven't got room for it. Do you want an Americano?". No. I don't want a British version of an Italian version of an American version of coffee, which is going to take you two minutes to make from your massive machine and which you're going to charge me £3.50 for. I just want a normal coffee.
    Then use a kettle at home and get a flask to put your coffee into.

    They're making real coffee, from beans, why would they offer you instant or filter instead? Like going into Greggs and asking for a Fish and Chips, it's a different product that's not what they're selling.
    Filter (or batch) is very different from instant though. It's made from beans. And then filtered.
    I'm not asking for them to do anything out of the ordinary. Grind the beans and make the coffee. No need to tit about with milk or steam. The analogy would be like going into Greggs hoping for a sandwich, but finding there were no options for themnot to toast your sandwich.
    Instant isn’t coffee. Any more than pissing in a church is praying.
    There's a similarity between this discussion and Monty Python's spam sketch, but in reverse.

    There's all sorts of ways to make coffee from espresso so lots of choices (including Americano if you just want a tall, black coffee, and a white Americano if you want that with a splash of milk).

    But some people long for the simpler days of just spam being the option.

    Most restaurants have moved away from spam as their meat now. And have moved on from instant/filter coffee typically too. Thank goodness!
    Instant <> Filter!
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,451

    I know the price of a pint of beer to the penny.

    Absolutely no idea for milk, even though I buy a lot of it. Milkman charges a bit more I think.

    There's a joke in there, but it would be rather rude, I think. Even by my standards.
  • Options
    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,009

    It looks like rather a modestly sized chopper.

    AW109. The one with various avionics upgrades for single pilot operation. Operated by Sloane with an RAF flight number because we've apparently stopped being able to train military crew.
  • Options
    MiklosvarMiklosvar Posts: 1,855

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Rishi Sunak travelled to Southampton using a taxpayer-funded helicopter, Downing Street has admitted, despite the journey taking just over an hour on the train.’

    Ahem. that assumes no waiting time. The shortest train time (direct from Waterloo to Soton Cent) is 1hr 25, but you will not arrive immediately the train departs. Assume 15-30 mins waiting time for train to be platformed and for you to get on. Then at Soton Cent you'd have to get a taxi to wherever you are going.

    So door-to-door I'd assume at least 2hrs, assume 2.5 on the safe side.

    Incidentally Waterloo has a bookstore (Foyles) altho it is being refurbished. There are not many places in Waterloo for a nice sit down and a read, as everything is overpriced and not set up for the single reader. It does have a (grrr) coffee shop full of overpriced drinks I don't really understand, but it did (and I think it's reopened) have a nice sushi place which has nice sushi and seats upstairs where it isn't too loud.

    All coffee chains do "Black Coffee", if you simply ask for that.
    I don't like black coffee. I want coffee with milk. There is a translation from posh coffee to normal human coffee but I've forgotten what it is. If you know how to get normal coffee with normal milk, in the
    correct proportions, without the coffee looking like somebody spat in it, I would be grateful.
    Lack of normal coffee is a bugbear of mine. Some coffee shops do indeed do filter coffee, though often they are strangely reluctant to admit to it. But many just don't. Pret, in Piccadilly Gardens, for example. "We haven't got room for it. Do you want an Americano?". No. I don't want a British version of an Italian version of an American version of coffee, which is going to take you two minutes to make from your massive machine and which you're going to charge me £3.50 for. I just want a normal coffee.
    Then use a kettle at home and get a flask to put your coffee into.

    They're making real coffee, from beans, why would they offer you instant or filter instead? Like going into Greggs and asking for a Fish and Chips, it's a different product that's not what they're selling.
    Filter (or batch) is very different from instant though. It's made from beans. And then filtered.
    I'm not asking for them to do anything out of the ordinary. Grind the beans and make the coffee. No need to tit about with milk or steam. The analogy would be like going into Greggs hoping for a sandwich, but finding there were no options for themnot to toast your sandwich.
    Instant isn’t coffee. Any more than pissing in a church is praying.
    There's a similarity between this discussion and Monty Python's spam sketch, but in reverse.

    There's all sorts of ways to make coffee from espresso so lots of choices (including Americano if you just want a tall, black coffee, and a white Americano if you want that with a splash of milk).

    But some people long for the simpler days of just spam being the option.

    Most restaurants have moved away from spam as their meat now. And have moved on from instant/filter coffee typically too. Thank goodness!
    What is the conflation of instant with filter for? Filter is just how you make coffee, unless you have a yuppie nerdy yen for expensive and unnecessary machines
  • Options
    .
    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Rishi Sunak travelled to Southampton using a taxpayer-funded helicopter, Downing Street has admitted, despite the journey taking just over an hour on the train.’

    Ahem. that assumes no waiting time. The shortest train time (direct from Waterloo to Soton Cent) is 1hr 25, but you will not arrive immediately the train departs. Assume 15-30 mins waiting time for train to be platformed and for you to get on. Then at Soton Cent you'd have to get a taxi to wherever you are going.

    So door-to-door I'd assume at least 2hrs, assume 2.5 on the safe side.

    Incidentally Waterloo has a bookstore (Foyles) altho it is being refurbished. There are not many places in Waterloo for a nice sit down and a read, as everything is overpriced and not set up for the single reader. It does have a (grrr) coffee shop full of overpriced drinks I don't really understand, but it did (and I think it's reopened) have a nice sushi place which has nice sushi and seats upstairs where it isn't too loud.

    All coffee chains do "Black Coffee", if you simply ask for that.
    I don't like black coffee. I want coffee with milk. There is a translation from posh coffee to normal human coffee but I've forgotten what it is. If you know how to get normal coffee with normal milk, in the
    correct proportions, without the coffee looking like somebody spat in it, I would be grateful.
    Lack of normal coffee is a bugbear of mine. Some coffee shops do indeed do filter coffee, though often they are strangely reluctant to admit to it. But many just don't. Pret, in Piccadilly Gardens, for example. "We haven't got room for it. Do you want an Americano?". No. I don't want a British version of an Italian version of an American version of coffee, which is going to take you two minutes to make from your massive machine and which you're going to charge me £3.50 for. I just want a normal coffee.
    Then use a kettle at home and get a flask to put your coffee into.

    They're making real coffee, from beans, why would they offer you instant or filter instead? Like going into Greggs and asking for a Fish and Chips, it's a different product that's not what they're selling.
    Filter (or batch) is very different from instant though. It's made from beans. And then filtered.
    I'm not asking for them to do anything out of the ordinary. Grind the beans and make the coffee. No need to tit about with milk or steam. The analogy would be like going into Greggs hoping for a sandwich, but finding there were no options for themnot to toast your sandwich.
    Instant isn’t coffee. Any more than pissing in a church is praying.
    There's a similarity between this discussion and Monty Python's spam sketch, but in reverse.

    There's all sorts of ways to make coffee from espresso so lots of choices (including Americano if you just want a tall, black coffee, and a white Americano if you want that with a splash of milk).

    But some people long for the simpler days of just spam being the option.

    Most restaurants have moved away from spam as their meat now. And have moved on from instant/filter coffee typically too. Thank goodness!
    Instant <> Filter!
    I know.

    On a scale of 1 to 10, instant is the 1, espresso is the 10, and filter is about a 3.5

    Filter is far more real coffee than instant is, but it lacks the pressure to make a good coffee. Or leave a cup with it's crema normally.
  • Options
    StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 7,062
    For @NickPalmer

    Question for those more familiar with the stock markets: what is the English term for "Börsenmantelaktiengesellschaft" - apparemtly a company established for the sole purpose of obtaining a stock exchange listing?

    I don’t know the German word but guessing you are meaning “cash shell” or “shell company”?
  • Options
    boulayboulay Posts: 3,962
    The Spurs Number 13 has had a good game. Looks like some player and I imagine there will be a few enquiries by teams trying to by him in January. The only question is how much is Udogie in the window?
This discussion has been closed.