I find if you substitute the phrase "political correctness gone mad" for "woke" then it tells you all you need to know about the user of the word "woke".
Totally wrong, and another sign of limited intellect and ability to think.
Can you tell me the differences between these two things in your mind? A definition of both or either would be useful.
No, I'm with my family on holiday and don't have time.
You wouldn't understand anyway. Too far gone.
You are so enjoying your family holiday, and busy with it, that you are posting here - a forum for the terminally online political obsessive (I include myself in that category).
If you just want to say "the definition I give you will allow you to argue against a definitive thing rather than a miasmic concept that I find useful because I can always No True Scotsman anything to be or not be Woke to suit my needs" I will accept that. Elsewise actually knowing what people mean by the words they say is kind of the only useful way to have a dialogue. If you don't wish to have a dialogue, I would suggest not interacting on an internet forum with other people.
At the heart of the "no debate" stance is the issue of gatekeepers.
Is it right that someone else (a doctor, your peers, people on internet chat rooms) get to determine your gender.
Imagine if I told @rcs1000 that he really thought that Radiohead was the worst band in the world. Crazy talk, right? But I have set myself up as the gatekeeper to his musical tastes.
Not my best analogy but it gets us there.
Needless to say for safeguarding purposes there need to be gatekeepers and rules and so forth but the essence of the "no debate" argument is that.
"When Ritchie Herron woke after gender reassignment surgery, he had a feeling he had made a terrible mistake.
Five years later, his scars still sometimes weep and he cannot walk long distances or ride a bike. “I’ve awakened from what was a mental health crisis, to a body that will be for ever changed and damaged,” he said. He no longer identifies as transgender and is living as a gay man “as best I can, given what has happened”."
to Oooh I fancy a decaf cappuccino with sprinkles.
Which just shows that careful psychological assessment should be an essential precursor to life altering treatments.
It's the trivialisation that grates. Fitting a colostomy bag is a life-saving surgery with, at a guess, many fewer patients subsequently regretting the procedure, so why not have a cartoon of one of those?
Regret rate for gender affirming care is between 1% - 5%
Do you think it’s going to stay there given
1) the woeful lack of follow up, now being corrected,
2) the substantial increase in the number of surgeries performed and
3) the significant expansion of treatment beyond the cohort that the Dutch study used - the basis for all this “care”?
Do you agree with Dr Helen Webberley that gender dysphoria is a mental health issue that, virtually uniquely among mental illnesses can be treated by surgery?
On topic, Boycott Costa. They've picked a side and need to be punished for it.
That's the only way Woke Capitalism and these Culture Wars end.
I won't be buying anything there for the foreseeable.
Do you realise quite how pathetic you sound? How the mere thought of 'inclusion' of a marginalised group causes you to screech and holler like a petulant child?
I fear you might find it quite hard to find places to buy stuff in future ...
Yes, but you're a fucking braindead Woke idiot- so we simply ignore what you say.
Who's 'we' ?
And what's your definition of 'woke'?
Another one!!!
People will look back on people like you and @148grss in 20 years time, and laugh.
Similar things were said about gay marriage, legalisation of homosexuality, and many other so-called 'progressive' causes. The conservatives were on the wrong side of history then. Why are you so convinced that you are on the 'right' side now?
I actually laugh at the homophobes who were against the legalisation of homosexuality or gay marriage. Or going back further, those who thought that women getting the vote was a bad idea.
History isn't indefinite one way traffic, for example the Restoration and Georgian eras were more socially liberal than the Cromwellian Protectorate or Victorian era. It may be we continue to become even more socially liberal or it may be we are now at peak social liberalism
We're not at peak social liberalism, I think we're over that point now.
On topic, Boycott Costa. They've picked a side and need to be punished for it.
That's the only way Woke Capitalism and these Culture Wars end.
I won't be buying anything there for the foreseeable.
Do you realise quite how pathetic you sound? How the mere thought of 'inclusion' of a marginalised group causes you to screech and holler like a petulant child?
I fear you might find it quite hard to find places to buy stuff in future ...
Yes, but you're a fucking braindead Woke idiot- so we simply ignore what you say.
What does "Woke" mean?
Only Wokies ask this (so it means people like you) and they never understand or accept the answer.
I'm tired of repeatedly explaining it to no avail, and have better things to do with my time.
"When Ritchie Herron woke after gender reassignment surgery, he had a feeling he had made a terrible mistake.
Five years later, his scars still sometimes weep and he cannot walk long distances or ride a bike. “I’ve awakened from what was a mental health crisis, to a body that will be for ever changed and damaged,” he said. He no longer identifies as transgender and is living as a gay man “as best I can, given what has happened”."
to Oooh I fancy a decaf cappuccino with sprinkles.
Which just shows that careful psychological assessment should be an essential precursor to life altering treatments.
It's the trivialisation that grates. Fitting a colostomy bag is a life-saving surgery with, at a guess, many fewer patients subsequently regretting the procedure, so why not have a cartoon of one of those?
Regret rate for gender affirming care is between 1% - 5%
Do you think it’s going to stay there given
1) the woeful lack of follow up, now being corrected,
2) the substantial increase in the number of surgeries performed and
3) the significant expansion of treatment beyond the cohort that the Dutch study used - the basis for all this “care”?
Do you agree with Dr Helen Webberley that gender dysphoria is a mental health issue that, virtually uniquely among mental illnesses can be treated by surgery?
On topic, Boycott Costa. They've picked a side and need to be punished for it.
That's the only way Woke Capitalism and these Culture Wars end.
I won't be buying anything there for the foreseeable.
Do you realise quite how pathetic you sound? How the mere thought of 'inclusion' of a marginalised group causes you to screech and holler like a petulant child?
I fear you might find it quite hard to find places to buy stuff in future ...
Yes, but you're a fucking braindead Woke idiot- so we simply ignore what you say.
Who's 'we' ?
And what's your definition of 'woke'?
Another one!!!
People will look back on people like you and @148grss in 20 years time, and laugh.
Similar things were said about gay marriage, legalisation of homosexuality, and many other so-called 'progressive' causes. The conservatives were on the wrong side of history then. Why are you so convinced that you are on the 'right' side now?
I actually laugh at the homophobes who were against the legalisation of homosexuality or gay marriage. Or going back further, those who thought that women getting the vote was a bad idea.
History isn't indefinite one way traffic, for example the Restoration and Georgian eras were more socially liberal than the Cromwellian Protectorate or Victorian era. It may be we continue to become even more socially liberal or it may be we are now at peak social liberalism
Sure, once upon a time, communism, eugenics, and the legalisation of "cross generational relationship" were "progressive" causes. The reactionaries who opposed such things turned out to be on the right side of history.
On topic, Boycott Costa. They've picked a side and need to be punished for it.
That's the only way Woke Capitalism and these Culture Wars end.
I won't be buying anything there for the foreseeable.
Do you realise quite how pathetic you sound? How the mere thought of 'inclusion' of a marginalised group causes you to screech and holler like a petulant child?
I fear you might find it quite hard to find places to buy stuff in future ...
Yes, but you're a fucking braindead Woke idiot- so we simply ignore what you say.
Who's 'we' ?
And what's your definition of 'woke'?
Another one!!!
People will look back on people like you and @148grss in 20 years time, and laugh.
Similar things were said about gay marriage, legalisation of homosexuality, and many other so-called 'progressive' causes. The conservatives were on the wrong side of history then. Why are you so convinced that you are on the 'right' side now?
I actually laugh at the homophobes who were against the legalisation of homosexuality or gay marriage. Or going back further, those who thought that women getting the vote was a bad idea.
More about Ritchie Herron
"He decided he was transgender and “all my struggles were due to gender dysphoria” — an idea he says was encouraged by older activists in internet forums. He fixated on the idea that “my body was being poisoned by testosterone”, he says.
...
“Today, despite multiple follow-up surgeries, my scar lines still weep, occasionally becoming inflamed and causing crippling pain. In the flesh cavity that was created to mimic a vagina, I feel mostly nothing, aside from the occasional stabs of pain. I can’t use the toilet properly . . . and no matter how hard I push or strain, a dribble emerges, which may continue for hours after I have left the seat."
Older activists in internet forums.
It is a monstrous crime
I wonder if Costa would ever actually SHOW PHOTOS of what “routine top surgery” actually looks like, post-op - so as to be more “inclusive”?
No, they wouldn’t. Because the results are intensely distressing to see. The outright mutilation. It’s not a couple of cute, playful little scars
On topic, Boycott Costa. They've picked a side and need to be punished for it.
That's the only way Woke Capitalism and these Culture Wars end.
I won't be buying anything there for the foreseeable.
Do you realise quite how pathetic you sound? How the mere thought of 'inclusion' of a marginalised group causes you to screech and holler like a petulant child?
I fear you might find it quite hard to find places to buy stuff in future ...
Yes, but you're a fucking braindead Woke idiot- so we simply ignore what you say.
Who's 'we' ?
And what's your definition of 'woke'?
Another one!!!
People will look back on people like you and @148grss in 20 years time, and laugh.
Similar things were said about gay marriage, legalisation of homosexuality, and many other so-called 'progressive' causes. The conservatives were on the wrong side of history then. Why are you so convinced that you are on the 'right' side now?
I actually laugh at the homophobes who were against the legalisation of homosexuality or gay marriage. Or going back further, those who thought that women getting the vote was a bad idea.
History isn't indefinite one way traffic, for example the Restoration and Georgian eras were more socially liberal than the Cromwellian Protectorate or Victorian era. It may be we continue to become even more socially liberal or it may be we are now at peak social liberalism
Indeed. The idea that history is gradually and continually getting better (for a given definition of "better") is known as the Whig view of history, and is [checks notes] gibberish.
On topic, Boycott Costa. They've picked a side and need to be punished for it.
That's the only way Woke Capitalism and these Culture Wars end.
I won't be buying anything there for the foreseeable.
Do you realise quite how pathetic you sound? How the mere thought of 'inclusion' of a marginalised group causes you to screech and holler like a petulant child?
I fear you might find it quite hard to find places to buy stuff in future ...
Yes, but you're a fucking braindead Woke idiot- so we simply ignore what you say.
Who's 'we' ?
And what's your definition of 'woke'?
Another one!!!
People will look back on people like you and @148grss in 20 years time, and laugh.
Similar things were said about gay marriage, legalisation of homosexuality, and many other so-called 'progressive' causes. The conservatives were on the wrong side of history then. Why are you so convinced that you are on the 'right' side now?
I actually laugh at the homophobes who were against the legalisation of homosexuality or gay marriage. Or going back further, those who thought that women getting the vote was a bad idea.
History isn't indefinite one way traffic, for example the Restoration and Georgian eras were more socially liberal than the Cromwellian Protectorate or Victorian era. It may be we continue to become even more socially liberal or it may be we are now at peak social liberalism
One thing we've (almost) done through British history is become more scientifically rational in our politics and morals over time. So although the Victorians arguably appeared more socially conservative at the level of elites (not sure that's at all true for the bulk of the population level though) there were still revolutionary changes in scientific thought going on - like the theory evolution - that filtered into social norms.
So I predict any beliefs - right wing or left wing - that are not on strong scientific foundations will fade, and be replaced by more rational ones. That means that you can't generalise for all the aspects of things criticised as "wokeism" or PC gone mad which as Topping said is essentially the same thing.
- Understanding of climate change and the need to address it: will continue to grow and scepticism will wane as has already happened - Acceptance of people who transgress existing social norms: the scientific fact of the existence of people with different sexual identity will become more and more accepted; shorter lived fads based on ideology not science will fall by the wayside - LTNs and other things that annoy motorists but demonstrably improve local quality of life: in due course will be looked back on as inevitable because the evidence showed they worked; utopian plans to put us all on public transport: won't survive contact with reality - Mixed race couples in adverts: will be more and more representative of real life over time and people will stop complaining about them
imo it is just a societal cultural overshoot whereby such depictions at first shock (some people) and then mainstream is moved slightly so no "shock ads" are required and society becomes more diverse and inclusive.
On those terms it is a well done to Costa situation. Were their coffee not so gopping I might go and have a decaf Americano (leave room). But it is so I won't.
Plus coffee these days at those places is at the very least three quid a pop which is the greater scandal.
The three quid is paying for the staff, the building, utilities. The coffee is kinda an extra.
It does seem to have improved a tiny bit in the last few years. Still, making actually good coffee is perfectly possible and really not that expensive (the main input cost in a latte or flat white is the milk).
I don’t know why Costa continue to make substandard stuff. Just needs the beans to have been roasted very recently, ideally that day. Which for a large chain with its own manufacturing facilities or nearby suppliers should be no more difficult than having freshly baked pastries every day.
Fair point, but some of those chains don't even have freshly baked pastries. Long life things in plastic wrap often.
On topic, Boycott Costa. They've picked a side and need to be punished for it.
That's the only way Woke Capitalism and these Culture Wars end.
I won't be buying anything there for the foreseeable.
Do you realise quite how pathetic you sound? How the mere thought of 'inclusion' of a marginalised group causes you to screech and holler like a petulant child?
I fear you might find it quite hard to find places to buy stuff in future ...
Yes, but you're a fucking braindead Woke idiot- so we simply ignore what you say.
Who's 'we' ?
And what's your definition of 'woke'?
Another one!!!
People will look back on people like you and @148grss in 20 years time, and laugh.
Similar things were said about gay marriage, legalisation of homosexuality, and many other so-called 'progressive' causes. The conservatives were on the wrong side of history then. Why are you so convinced that you are on the 'right' side now?
I actually laugh at the homophobes who were against the legalisation of homosexuality or gay marriage. Or going back further, those who thought that women getting the vote was a bad idea.
More about Ritchie Herron
"He decided he was transgender and “all my struggles were due to gender dysphoria” — an idea he says was encouraged by older activists in internet forums. He fixated on the idea that “my body was being poisoned by testosterone”, he says.
...
“Today, despite multiple follow-up surgeries, my scar lines still weep, occasionally becoming inflamed and causing crippling pain. In the flesh cavity that was created to mimic a vagina, I feel mostly nothing, aside from the occasional stabs of pain. I can’t use the toilet properly . . . and no matter how hard I push or strain, a dribble emerges, which may continue for hours after I have left the seat."
Older activists in internet forums.
I don't understand the point you are making? One person was unhappy in their life, found people online and felt that they related to them, went to the doctor and asked for medical intervention due to that, agreed after being told all the potential outcomes (which you have to be told before undergoing medical transition) and regretted it afterwards. This person should be supported, and probably shouldn't have had this surgery. But it's one person. Undertaking a surgery with a regret rate of between 1% - 5%. A regret rate lower than nameless other surgeries that have equally negative outcomes in some cases. Should we ban all surgeries because of their worst case scenario outcomes?
It is sad this individual thought they were trans and did not find surgery useful. But the vast majority of patients waiting for trans affirming care wait LONGER than the legal waiting time for their treatment. Many transwomen who want HRT or testosterone blockers, which is over the counter medicine for ciswomen going through the menopause or easily gettable for any cisman who is depressed they're going bald, wait years to access it. This is what then rushes people into actions they may be unsure about - because when they finally are seen they can't show any doubts because they'll go to the back of the queue again. One of the main criticisms of the GIC was that it was too SLOW in its treatment of patients, especially young people, and that the waiting lists of 6-8 years for gender affirming care were unacceptable. Indeed, the findings said closing down the Tavistock to replace it with more regional based care facilities would allow for more trans people to get the treatment they need faster.
Thanks to https://www1.dehavilland.co.uk/ for this, sourced from the Independent. More divisive, performative guff from the government. Rallying the morons: Brussels tells EU states to ignore UK on post-Brexit trade
The UK Government has been rebuked by Brussels for trying to bypass post-Brexit trade rules.
The Independent revealed this morning that the European Commission was unhappy with British officials after it emerged they had tried to directly contact Member States.
The Commission told countries to ignore the UK Government and sent a memo that states were only to provide "short general information".
The Commission later warned the UK about contacting countries saying it was a "significant concern"...
The Commission swiftly responded by issuing a memo that "Member states are advised not to respond to the online questionnaire requested by the UK".
On the same day, an official from the Commission health directorate warned DEFRA against using "channels outside" the EU-UK trade agreement.
Director at the European Centre for International Political Economy David Henig said: "It looks unwise for the UK to have approached the issue in this way, something that could damage the trust we need".
Mr Henig added it was "symbolic of a still-struggling relationship - its more friction we don’t need".
The UK's first Brexit Secretary David Davis said it is unlikely to be the last time something like this occurs: "This is going to happen time and time again...Good diplomacy tries to understand the person you are negotiating with".
Brexiteers have been quick to label the EU "unfriendly", with Conservative MP Jacob Rees Mogg saying "It seems to me to be a protectionist measure designed to trade more difficult".
No downsides, only considerable upsides, etc, etc, ad nauseum. Entirely unsurprised to see Davis and Rees Mogg commenting on this. Laughable.
The thousand year old castle of Kremenets Podolskiy, perched on a rocky outcrop almost completely surrounded by a deep ravine
It is so impregnable, according to legend/history it was the only citadel to ever resist the Mongol hordes. I have my doubts about this but still. Wow
That’s straight into my top ten castles
Other contenders
Krak Des Chevaliers Caerphilly? Chenonceau Where else?
Corfe Portchester
Both of these are majorly influenced by their setting.
Setting is really key for castles. My favourites are generally the ruined ones. Manorbier is one example whose setting makes the difference. Skenfrith another. Berze le Chatel isn't ruined but is a lovely stony hulk of a building in a very pretty vineyard setting.
The news on the UKCA insanity being shelved is very welcome, of course. Let's hope the next one to be abandoned will be the UK REACH chemicals regulation insanity.
But of course a lot of damage has already been done, both in direct hosing of money down the drain and, even more important, in the effect of the regulatory instability on business investment and confidence. The UKCA and REACH lunacies were particularly egregious because, if we'd had a vaguely sane government post 2019, we might have been able to retain the right for certification to be done by UK bodies. As it is, Boris and Lord Frost have forced UK companies to go to EU-based certification bodies, at extra cost and inconvenience, and gratuitously damaged the business of the UK certifiers.
Whatever one thinks about the principle of Brexit, the Boris implementation of it was quite spectacularly incompetent. It's hard to think of anything comparable,
On topic, Boycott Costa. They've picked a side and need to be punished for it.
That's the only way Woke Capitalism and these Culture Wars end.
I won't be buying anything there for the foreseeable.
Do you realise quite how pathetic you sound? How the mere thought of 'inclusion' of a marginalised group causes you to screech and holler like a petulant child?
I fear you might find it quite hard to find places to buy stuff in future ...
Yes, but you're a fucking braindead Woke idiot- so we simply ignore what you say.
Who's 'we' ?
And what's your definition of 'woke'?
Another one!!!
People will look back on people like you and @148grss in 20 years time, and laugh.
Similar things were said about gay marriage, legalisation of homosexuality, and many other so-called 'progressive' causes. The conservatives were on the wrong side of history then. Why are you so convinced that you are on the 'right' side now?
I actually laugh at the homophobes who were against the legalisation of homosexuality or gay marriage. Or going back further, those who thought that women getting the vote was a bad idea.
History isn't indefinite one way traffic, for example the Restoration and Georgian eras were more socially liberal than the Cromwellian Protectorate or Victorian era. It may be we continue to become even more socially liberal or it may be we are now at peak social liberalism
Sure, once upon a time, communism, eugenics, and the legalisation of "cross generational relationship" were "progressive" causes. The reactionaries who opposed such things turned out to be on the right side of history.
Yes: Pedophilia in the 60s and 70s. Harriet Harman doesn’t talk about legalising that so much, these days
I find if you substitute the phrase "political correctness gone mad" for "woke" then it tells you all you need to know about the user of the word "woke".
Totally wrong, and another sign of limited intellect and ability to think.
Yep that's me.
Nevertheless I am able to not get wound up by what people say on internet chat rooms if they disagree with me.
I find making little straw dolls and sticking pins in them helps
"When Ritchie Herron woke after gender reassignment surgery, he had a feeling he had made a terrible mistake.
Five years later, his scars still sometimes weep and he cannot walk long distances or ride a bike. “I’ve awakened from what was a mental health crisis, to a body that will be for ever changed and damaged,” he said. He no longer identifies as transgender and is living as a gay man “as best I can, given what has happened”."
to Oooh I fancy a decaf cappuccino with sprinkles.
Which just shows that careful psychological assessment should be an essential precursor to life altering treatments.
It's the trivialisation that grates. Fitting a colostomy bag is a life-saving surgery with, at a guess, many fewer patients subsequently regretting the procedure, so why not have a cartoon of one of those?
Regret rate for gender affirming care is between 1% - 5%
Do you think it’s going to stay there given
1) the woeful lack of follow up, now being corrected,
2) the substantial increase in the number of surgeries performed and
3) the significant expansion of treatment beyond the cohort that the Dutch study used - the basis for all this “care”?
Do you agree with Dr Helen Webberley that gender dysphoria is a mental health issue that, virtually uniquely among mental illnesses can be treated by surgery?
On topic, Boycott Costa. They've picked a side and need to be punished for it.
That's the only way Woke Capitalism and these Culture Wars end.
I won't be buying anything there for the foreseeable.
CR: Oh no, not the trans topic again *eye roll emoji*
Also CR: Boycott Costa for showing a trans person in an advert.
What is "Woke Capitalism"? What are the "Culture Wars"? Do you also believe in "Cultural Marxism" or the like?
Can Capitalism really ever truly be woke? Back in the early 00s Disney was very squeamish about 'gay stuff', seemed to recoil away from anything that might hint at the whiff of same-sex relationships. Because they calculated they would turn more people off, which would hit their bottom line.
Now things have changed, and there is more to gain by embracing LGB than being silent. The T is just a bit behind that. If companies are right, then by embracing Trans issues, they'll make some more money than they otherwise might have. If they're wrong, they'll lose money and their businesses can be replaced by their competitors.
Companies aren't being "woke" (not that I know what some people mean by that) - they either market things they think will appeal to people with dispensable income, or they do things to cover their arses from lawsuits. They don't care about inclusion or diversity or whatever; they care about profit.
Yes, one can save a lot of time by recognising that (obviously there will be exceptions, as for every generalisation) If one doesn't like a system, work to change it, don't mess about targeting individual companies operating within it. There are three ways to effect change in a democratic market economy:
1. Pass a law making it mandatory 2. Change regulations to make it profitable for companies to do what you want 3. Encourage consumer behaviour to achieve the same effect.
In my less contentious sphere, we try to persuade Government (1) to mandate an end to live exports, (2) to provide subsidies to farmers transitioning from factory farming to less unpleasant systems and (3) introduce labelling of higher-welfare meat so consumers can vote with their wallets (as they did for eggs) and farmers can increase sales by responding to (2). What we don't do, by and large, is appeal to companies' better natures or condemn anyone for making a profit. We just assume they're open to good welfare but primarily want to be successful. In a funny sort of way, free market enthusiasts and Marxists agree - it's not about the individual businesses, but about how the system is set up.
Similarly, if younger consumers in particular have developed different values, don't blame Costa for responding to them. It's what companies do. If you think the younger consumers are morally wrong, launch a campaign to persuade them otherwise.
On topic, Boycott Costa. They've picked a side and need to be punished for it.
That's the only way Woke Capitalism and these Culture Wars end.
I won't be buying anything there for the foreseeable.
Do you realise quite how pathetic you sound? How the mere thought of 'inclusion' of a marginalised group causes you to screech and holler like a petulant child?
I fear you might find it quite hard to find places to buy stuff in future ...
Yes, but you're a fucking braindead Woke idiot- so we simply ignore what you say.
Who's 'we' ?
And what's your definition of 'woke'?
Another one!!!
People will look back on people like you and @148grss in 20 years time, and laugh.
Similar things were said about gay marriage, legalisation of homosexuality, and many other so-called 'progressive' causes. The conservatives were on the wrong side of history then. Why are you so convinced that you are on the 'right' side now?
I actually laugh at the homophobes who were against the legalisation of homosexuality or gay marriage. Or going back further, those who thought that women getting the vote was a bad idea.
History isn't indefinite one way traffic, for example the Restoration and Georgian eras were more socially liberal than the Cromwellian Protectorate or Victorian era. It may be we continue to become even more socially liberal or it may be we are now at peak social liberalism
One thing we've (almost) done through British history is become more scientifically rational in our politics and morals over time. So although the Victorians arguably appeared more socially conservative at the level of elites (not sure that's at all true for the bulk of the population level though) there were still revolutionary changes in scientific thought going on - like the theory evolution - that filtered into social norms.
So I predict any beliefs - right wing or left wing - that are not on strong scientific foundations will fade, and be replaced by more rational ones. That means that you can't generalise for all the aspects of things criticised as "wokeism" or PC gone mad which as Topping said is essentially the same thing.
- Understanding of climate change and the need to address it: will continue to grow and scepticism will wane as has already happened - Acceptance of people who transgress existing social norms: the scientific fact of the existence of people with different sexual identity will become more and more accepted; shorter lived fads based on ideology not science will fall by the wayside - LTNs and other things that annoy motorists but demonstrably improve local quality of life: in due course will be looked back on as inevitable because the evidence showed they worked; utopian plans to put us all on public transport: won't survive contact with reality - Mixed race couples in adverts: will be more and more representative of real life over time and people will stop complaining about them
etc.
The failure of Populism is because it is ultimately irrational. Moderation will win out in the end because it rests on decency and tolerance, but most importantly it rests on truth.
Thanks to https://www1.dehavilland.co.uk/ for this, sourced from the Independent. More divisive, performative guff from the government. Rallying the morons: Brussels tells EU states to ignore UK on post-Brexit trade
The UK Government has been rebuked by Brussels for trying to bypass post-Brexit trade rules.
The Independent revealed this morning that the European Commission was unhappy with British officials after it emerged they had tried to directly contact Member States.
The Commission told countries to ignore the UK Government and sent a memo that states were only to provide "short general information".
The Commission later warned the UK about contacting countries saying it was a "significant concern"...
The Commission swiftly responded by issuing a memo that "Member states are advised not to respond to the online questionnaire requested by the UK".
On the same day, an official from the Commission health directorate warned DEFRA against using "channels outside" the EU-UK trade agreement.
Director at the European Centre for International Political Economy David Henig said: "It looks unwise for the UK to have approached the issue in this way, something that could damage the trust we need".
Mr Henig added it was "symbolic of a still-struggling relationship - its more friction we don’t need".
The UK's first Brexit Secretary David Davis said it is unlikely to be the last time something like this occurs: "This is going to happen time and time again...Good diplomacy tries to understand the person you are negotiating with".
Brexiteers have been quick to label the EU "unfriendly", with Conservative MP Jacob Rees Mogg saying "It seems to me to be a protectionist measure designed to trade more difficult".
No downsides, only considerable upsides, etc, etc, ad nauseum. Entirely unsurprised to see Davis and Rees Mogg commenting on this. Laughable.
Which, in and of itself, justifies Brexit.
In the EU, sovereign countries "contacting countries" within it is seen as a "significant concern", and the Commission will try and bring you to heel and close you down.
On topic, Boycott Costa. They've picked a side and need to be punished for it.
That's the only way Woke Capitalism and these Culture Wars end.
I won't be buying anything there for the foreseeable.
Do you realise quite how pathetic you sound? How the mere thought of 'inclusion' of a marginalised group causes you to screech and holler like a petulant child?
I fear you might find it quite hard to find places to buy stuff in future ...
Yes, but you're a fucking braindead Woke idiot- so we simply ignore what you say.
Who's 'we' ?
And what's your definition of 'woke'?
Another one!!!
People will look back on people like you and @148grss in 20 years time, and laugh.
Similar things were said about gay marriage, legalisation of homosexuality, and many other so-called 'progressive' causes. The conservatives were on the wrong side of history then. Why are you so convinced that you are on the 'right' side now?
I actually laugh at the homophobes who were against the legalisation of homosexuality or gay marriage. Or going back further, those who thought that women getting the vote was a bad idea.
History isn't indefinite one way traffic, for example the Restoration and Georgian eras were more socially liberal than the Cromwellian Protectorate or Victorian era. It may be we continue to become even more socially liberal or it may be we are now at peak social liberalism
One thing we've (almost) done through British history is become more scientifically rational in our politics and morals over time. So although the Victorians arguably appeared more socially conservative at the level of elites (not sure that's at all true for the bulk of the population level though) there were still revolutionary changes in scientific thought going on - like the theory evolution - that filtered into social norms.
So I predict any beliefs - right wing or left wing - that are not on strong scientific foundations will fade, and be replaced by more rational ones. That means that you can't generalise for all the aspects of things criticised as "wokeism" or PC gone mad which as Topping said is essentially the same thing.
- Understanding of climate change and the need to address it: will continue to grow and scepticism will wane as has already happened - Acceptance of people who transgress existing social norms: the scientific fact of the existence of people with different sexual identity will become more and more accepted; shorter lived fads based on ideology not science will fall by the wayside - LTNs and other things that annoy motorists but demonstrably improve local quality of life: in due course will be looked back on as inevitable because the evidence showed they worked; utopian plans to put us all on public transport: won't survive contact with reality - Mixed race couples in adverts: will be more and more representative of real life over time and people will stop complaining about them
etc.
The failure of Populism is because it is ultimately irrational. Moderation will win out in the end because it rests on decency and tolerance, but most importantly it rests on truth.
As always with words one man's 'populism' is another's 'moderation'. It's a moveable feast like most politics and morality.
A growing number of countries, including some of the most progressive in Europe, are rejecting the U.S. “gender-affirming” model of care for transgender-identified youth. These countries have adopted a far more restrictive and cautious approach, one that prioritizes psychotherapy and reserves hormonal interventions for extreme cases……
Why are more countries turning their backs on what American medical associations, most Democrats and the American Civil Liberties Union call “medically necessary” and “life-saving” care? The answer is that Europeans are following principles of evidence-based medicine (EBM), while Americans are not…….
Similar problems exist in studies purporting to show a rate of transition regret of less than 1 percent. The true rate of regret is not known and won’t be known for years to come. The claim that gender dysphoric teens are at high risk of suicide if not given access to “gender-affirming” drugs and surgeries is likewise baseless and irresponsible. In February, Finland’s top expert in gender medicine emphasized this point to the country’s liberal newspaper of record.
The thousand year old castle of Kremenets Podolskiy, perched on a rocky outcrop almost completely surrounded by a deep ravine
It is so impregnable, according to legend/history it was the only citadel to ever resist the Mongol hordes. I have my doubts about this but still. Wow
That’s straight into my top ten castles
Other contenders
Krak Des Chevaliers Caerphilly? Chenonceau Where else?
Corfe Portchester
Both of these are majorly influenced by their setting.
Setting is really key for castles. My favourites are generally the ruined ones. Manorbier is one example whose setting makes the difference. Skenfrith another. Berze le Chatel isn't ruined but is a lovely stony hulk of a building in a very pretty vineyard setting.
Ha! I know Skenfrith. It is a lyrical ruin
We have to have one from Scotland. Edinburgh maybe. Or Dunvegan on Skye
It’s sourced from patients who have continued to see their doctor - so those who have dropped out of treatment or desisted are not considered.
A pedant writes.
Generalising the question to all studies, the phenomenon you refer to is the drop-out rate. This afflicts all studies over time: people are not incarcerated and some will forget, refuse or move away (for older people this includes emigration). I have seen drop-out rates of as much as 10%. Care should be taken to investigate whether this drop-out (known as censorship) is informative or non-informative. If it is non-informative it may be neglected (although that makes me nervous), but if it is informative you need to take it into account.
With respect to the study(s) you are referring to (I have not looked at them, although I suspect I may have to if this continues), the fact of a drop-out rate is not in itself condemnatory, rather it's the size and the means taken to cope with it.
"When Ritchie Herron woke after gender reassignment surgery, he had a feeling he had made a terrible mistake.
Five years later, his scars still sometimes weep and he cannot walk long distances or ride a bike. “I’ve awakened from what was a mental health crisis, to a body that will be for ever changed and damaged,” he said. He no longer identifies as transgender and is living as a gay man “as best I can, given what has happened”."
to Oooh I fancy a decaf cappuccino with sprinkles.
Which just shows that careful psychological assessment should be an essential precursor to life altering treatments.
It's the trivialisation that grates. Fitting a colostomy bag is a life-saving surgery with, at a guess, many fewer patients subsequently regretting the procedure, so why not have a cartoon of one of those?
Regret rate for gender affirming care is between 1% - 5%
Do you think it’s going to stay there given
1) the woeful lack of follow up, now being corrected,
2) the substantial increase in the number of surgeries performed and
3) the significant expansion of treatment beyond the cohort that the Dutch study used - the basis for all this “care”?
Do you agree with Dr Helen Webberley that gender dysphoria is a mental health issue that, virtually uniquely among mental illnesses can be treated by surgery?
I agree that healthcare for transgender people is vastly underprioritised and that they should have access to the same level of care as everyone else under the NHS. I think it is possible regret rate will increase with increase in treatment, but as we currently have no evidence for this and evidence to the contrary, I would side with the scientific literature and the community in what healthcare they should get.
I don't know if I agree that gender dysphoria is a mental illness. It is clearly material - it is not caused by a "gendered soul" as some here have claimed trans advocates argue. I accept that dysphoria is something that severely impacts people negatively, and that gender dysphoria is greatly reduced by social transition, hormone therapy and some surgeries. I have listened to some trans people argue that the diagnosis of "gender dysphoria" is the equivalent of just calling something "mad trans disease" because all the medicine and gatekeeping of medicine for trans people is typically via cis people and based on science done by cis people, and therefore trans people have to align their experience with what cis gatekeepers expect in order to get their treatment - whether their experience fits that expectation or not.
I have also heard convincing arguments that many cis people suffer with gender dysphoria - women who feel less like a woman due to menopause, mastectomies or hysterectomies or because of the shape of their nose or the size of their breasts; men who feel less manly if they're balding or have had a vasectomy. Many of these are socially imposed ideas of masculinity or femininity, and often include medical interventions to deal with (balding men can get testosterone blockers if it is causing them depression; women who have had mastectomies due to cancer can get reconstructive surgery if they feel it has had a negative impact on their self image).
I think it is certainly possible that in societies where gender norms are less strict or have trans inclusive gender identities fewer people may feel the need for surgery as part of their transition because the association between physical features and gender may be lessened. That is a hard hypothesis to test currently.
A growing number of countries, including some of the most progressive in Europe, are rejecting the U.S. “gender-affirming” model of care for transgender-identified youth. These countries have adopted a far more restrictive and cautious approach, one that prioritizes psychotherapy and reserves hormonal interventions for extreme cases……
Why are more countries turning their backs on what American medical associations, most Democrats and the American Civil Liberties Union call “medically necessary” and “life-saving” care? The answer is that Europeans are following principles of evidence-based medicine (EBM), while Americans are not.
On topic, Boycott Costa. They've picked a side and need to be punished for it.
That's the only way Woke Capitalism and these Culture Wars end.
I won't be buying anything there for the foreseeable.
Do you realise quite how pathetic you sound? How the mere thought of 'inclusion' of a marginalised group causes you to screech and holler like a petulant child?
I fear you might find it quite hard to find places to buy stuff in future ...
Yes, but you're a fucking braindead Woke idiot- so we simply ignore what you say.
Who's 'we' ?
And what's your definition of 'woke'?
Another one!!!
People will look back on people like you and @148grss in 20 years time, and laugh.
Similar things were said about gay marriage, legalisation of homosexuality, and many other so-called 'progressive' causes. The conservatives were on the wrong side of history then. Why are you so convinced that you are on the 'right' side now?
I actually laugh at the homophobes who were against the legalisation of homosexuality or gay marriage. Or going back further, those who thought that women getting the vote was a bad idea.
More about Ritchie Herron
"He decided he was transgender and “all my struggles were due to gender dysphoria” — an idea he says was encouraged by older activists in internet forums. He fixated on the idea that “my body was being poisoned by testosterone”, he says.
...
“Today, despite multiple follow-up surgeries, my scar lines still weep, occasionally becoming inflamed and causing crippling pain. In the flesh cavity that was created to mimic a vagina, I feel mostly nothing, aside from the occasional stabs of pain. I can’t use the toilet properly . . . and no matter how hard I push or strain, a dribble emerges, which may continue for hours after I have left the seat."
Older activists in internet forums.
I don't understand the point you are making? One person was unhappy in their life, found people online and felt that they related to them, went to the doctor and asked for medical intervention due to that, agreed after being told all the potential outcomes (which you have to be told before undergoing medical transition) and regretted it afterwards. This person should be supported, and probably shouldn't have had this surgery. But it's one person. Undertaking a surgery with a regret rate of between 1% - 5%. A regret rate lower than nameless other surgeries that have equally negative outcomes in some cases. Should we ban all surgeries because of their worst case scenario outcomes?
It is sad this individual thought they were trans and did not find surgery useful. But the vast majority of patients waiting for trans affirming care wait LONGER than the legal waiting time for their treatment. Many transwomen who want HRT or testosterone blockers, which is over the counter medicine for ciswomen going through the menopause or easily gettable for any cisman who is depressed they're going bald, wait years to access it. This is what then rushes people into actions they may be unsure about - because when they finally are seen they can't show any doubts because they'll go to the back of the queue again. One of the main criticisms of the GIC was that it was too SLOW in its treatment of patients, especially young people, and that the waiting lists of 6-8 years for gender affirming care were unacceptable. Indeed, the findings said closing down the Tavistock to replace it with more regional based care facilities would allow for more trans people to get the treatment they need faster.
I have never seen a dodgier statistic than that 1-5%, it shrieks reporting and publication bias.
Herron was mentally ill with depression and OCD
" found people online and felt that they related to them" is highly questionable. You don't know who is what online, and to do anything based on online advice is to make a catastrophic error. And I suspect that many of these online blokes are thoughtless cheerleaders who think Yay, transgender is about joy and pride and primary colours and raises not one single issue which is different from or more complex than the gay pride marches of my youth.
You mustn't think everyone is against you. I have been fiercely pro gay rights since I knew they were an issue - so long ago that this was not the default position - and I am no less pro trans rights. But what was done to Ritchie Herron was terrible. It was genital mutilation. I am not having you write him off as a 1%, eggs and omelettes sort of case.
On topic, Boycott Costa. They've picked a side and need to be punished for it.
That's the only way Woke Capitalism and these Culture Wars end.
I won't be buying anything there for the foreseeable.
Do you realise quite how pathetic you sound? How the mere thought of 'inclusion' of a marginalised group causes you to screech and holler like a petulant child?
I fear you might find it quite hard to find places to buy stuff in future ...
Yes, but you're a fucking braindead Woke idiot- so we simply ignore what you say.
Who's 'we' ?
And what's your definition of 'woke'?
Another one!!!
People will look back on people like you and @148grss in 20 years time, and laugh.
Similar things were said about gay marriage, legalisation of homosexuality, and many other so-called 'progressive' causes. The conservatives were on the wrong side of history then. Why are you so convinced that you are on the 'right' side now?
I actually laugh at the homophobes who were against the legalisation of homosexuality or gay marriage. Or going back further, those who thought that women getting the vote was a bad idea.
History isn't indefinite one way traffic, for example the Restoration and Georgian eras were more socially liberal than the Cromwellian Protectorate or Victorian era. It may be we continue to become even more socially liberal or it may be we are now at peak social liberalism
Sure, once upon a time, communism, eugenics, and the legalisation of "cross generational relationship" were "progressive" causes. The reactionaries who opposed such things turned out to be on the right side of history.
Yes: Pedophilia in the 60s and 70s. Harriet Harman doesn’t talk about legalising that so much, these days
The battle is already being won.
Sturgeon and the SNP were eviscerated over their gender law, Gillette lost a huge amount of its share price, Unilever stopped its BS (and has now been exposed as a Putin apologist of a corporation) and NatWest/Coutts have been found out, and humbled. People are becoming far more comfortable in calling out the EDI madness in corporate HR departments.
This is all a good thing for sensible public discourse and free expression.
Next, it's Costa (too slow/thick to learn) but they too will be humbled, and then we shall have neutrality, humility and peace in the corporate space.
The hard ones to tackle will be in the charity/3rd sector (which are far harder to reach and much more deeply embedded - Hillary McGrady should have gone long ago) but they won't be able to resist the winds forever.
On topic, Boycott Costa. They've picked a side and need to be punished for it.
That's the only way Woke Capitalism and these Culture Wars end.
I won't be buying anything there for the foreseeable.
Do you realise quite how pathetic you sound? How the mere thought of 'inclusion' of a marginalised group causes you to screech and holler like a petulant child?
I fear you might find it quite hard to find places to buy stuff in future ...
Yes, but you're a fucking braindead Woke idiot- so we simply ignore what you say.
Who's 'we' ?
And what's your definition of 'woke'?
Another one!!!
People will look back on people like you and @148grss in 20 years time, and laugh.
Similar things were said about gay marriage, legalisation of homosexuality, and many other so-called 'progressive' causes. The conservatives were on the wrong side of history then. Why are you so convinced that you are on the 'right' side now?
I actually laugh at the homophobes who were against the legalisation of homosexuality or gay marriage. Or going back further, those who thought that women getting the vote was a bad idea.
Oh God, this old canard as well.
You genuinely are thick.
Do you really think that? Or are you just getting annoyed that I have a different viewpoint from yours?
On topic, Boycott Costa. They've picked a side and need to be punished for it.
That's the only way Woke Capitalism and these Culture Wars end.
I won't be buying anything there for the foreseeable.
Do you realise quite how pathetic you sound? How the mere thought of 'inclusion' of a marginalised group causes you to screech and holler like a petulant child?
I fear you might find it quite hard to find places to buy stuff in future ...
Yes, but you're a fucking braindead Woke idiot- so we simply ignore what you say.
Who's 'we' ?
And what's your definition of 'woke'?
Another one!!!
People will look back on people like you and @148grss in 20 years time, and laugh.
Similar things were said about gay marriage, legalisation of homosexuality, and many other so-called 'progressive' causes. The conservatives were on the wrong side of history then. Why are you so convinced that you are on the 'right' side now?
I actually laugh at the homophobes who were against the legalisation of homosexuality or gay marriage. Or going back further, those who thought that women getting the vote was a bad idea.
History isn't indefinite one way traffic, for example the Restoration and Georgian eras were more socially liberal than the Cromwellian Protectorate or Victorian era. It may be we continue to become even more socially liberal or it may be we are now at peak social liberalism
Sure, once upon a time, communism, eugenics, and the legalisation of "cross generational relationship" were "progressive" causes. The reactionaries who opposed such things turned out to be on the right side of history.
But, you have the ability to think independently for yourself, Sean.
"When Ritchie Herron woke after gender reassignment surgery, he had a feeling he had made a terrible mistake.
Five years later, his scars still sometimes weep and he cannot walk long distances or ride a bike. “I’ve awakened from what was a mental health crisis, to a body that will be for ever changed and damaged,” he said. He no longer identifies as transgender and is living as a gay man “as best I can, given what has happened”."
to Oooh I fancy a decaf cappuccino with sprinkles.
Which just shows that careful psychological assessment should be an essential precursor to life altering treatments.
It's the trivialisation that grates. Fitting a colostomy bag is a life-saving surgery with, at a guess, many fewer patients subsequently regretting the procedure, so why not have a cartoon of one of those?
Regret rate for gender affirming care is between 1% - 5%
Do you think it’s going to stay there given
1) the woeful lack of follow up, now being corrected,
2) the substantial increase in the number of surgeries performed and
3) the significant expansion of treatment beyond the cohort that the Dutch study used - the basis for all this “care”?
Do you agree with Dr Helen Webberley that gender dysphoria is a mental health issue that, virtually uniquely among mental illnesses can be treated by surgery?
"Some studies suggest that rates of regret have declined over the years as patient selection and treatment methods have improved. In a review of 27 studies involving almost 8,000 teens and adults who had transgender surgeries, mostly in Europe, the U.S and Canada, 1% on average expressed regret. For some, regret was temporary, but a small number went on to have detransitioning or reversal surgeries, the 2021 review said."
The thousand year old castle of Kremenets Podolskiy, perched on a rocky outcrop almost completely surrounded by a deep ravine
It is so impregnable, according to legend/history it was the only citadel to ever resist the Mongol hordes. I have my doubts about this but still. Wow
That’s straight into my top ten castles
Other contenders
Krak Des Chevaliers Caerphilly? Chenonceau Where else?
Corfe Portchester
Both of these are majorly influenced by their setting.
Setting is really key for castles. My favourites are generally the ruined ones. Manorbier is one example whose setting makes the difference. Skenfrith another. Berze le Chatel isn't ruined but is a lovely stony hulk of a building in a very pretty vineyard setting.
Ha! I know Skenfrith. It is a lyrical ruin
We have to have one from Scotland. Edinburgh maybe. Or Dunvegan on Skye
For the sheer majesty of its setting I would propose Dunottar just south of Stonehaven.
On topic, Boycott Costa. They've picked a side and need to be punished for it.
That's the only way Woke Capitalism and these Culture Wars end.
I won't be buying anything there for the foreseeable.
CR: Oh no, not the trans topic again *eye roll emoji*
Also CR: Boycott Costa for showing a trans person in an advert.
What is "Woke Capitalism"? What are the "Culture Wars"? Do you also believe in "Cultural Marxism" or the like?
Can Capitalism really ever truly be woke? Back in the early 00s Disney was very squeamish about 'gay stuff', seemed to recoil away from anything that might hint at the whiff of same-sex relationships. Because they calculated they would turn more people off, which would hit their bottom line.
Now things have changed, and there is more to gain by embracing LGB than being silent. The T is just a bit behind that. If companies are right, then by embracing Trans issues, they'll make some more money than they otherwise might have. If they're wrong, they'll lose money and their businesses can be replaced by their competitors.
Companies aren't being "woke" (not that I know what some people mean by that) - they either market things they think will appeal to people with dispensable income, or they do things to cover their arses from lawsuits. They don't care about inclusion or diversity or whatever; they care about profit.
Yes, one can save a lot of time by recognising that (obviously there will be exceptions, as for every generalisation) If one doesn't like a system, work to change it, don't mess about targeting individual companies operating within it. There are three ways to effect change in a democratic market economy:
1. Pass a law making it mandatory 2. Change regulations to make it profitable for companies to do what you want 3. Encourage consumer behaviour to achieve the same effect.
In my less contentious sphere, we try to persuade Government (1) to mandate an end to live exports, (2) to provide subsidies to farmers transitioning from factory farming to less unpleasant systems and (3) introduce labelling of higher-welfare meat so consumers can vote with their wallets (as they did for eggs) and farmers can increase sales by responding to (2). What we don't do, by and large, is appeal to companies' better natures or condemn anyone for making a profit. We just assume they're open to good welfare but primarily want to be successful. In a funny sort of way, free market enthusiasts and Marxists agree - it's not about the individual businesses, but about how the system is set up.
Similarly, if younger consumers in particular have developed different values, don't blame Costa for responding to them. It's what companies do. If you think the younger consumers are morally wrong, launch a campaign to persuade them otherwise.
Trans people are people. They do not deserve to be buried in the shadows at society's edge. It is still within living memory that if you were gay you could go to prison, if you were black you were second class and if you were female you were little better than chattel.
And the "conservative" elements of society opposed the liberation of every one of those groups.
On topic, Boycott Costa. They've picked a side and need to be punished for it.
That's the only way Woke Capitalism and these Culture Wars end.
I won't be buying anything there for the foreseeable.
Do you realise quite how pathetic you sound? How the mere thought of 'inclusion' of a marginalised group causes you to screech and holler like a petulant child?
I fear you might find it quite hard to find places to buy stuff in future ...
Yes, but you're a fucking braindead Woke idiot- so we simply ignore what you say.
Who's 'we' ?
And what's your definition of 'woke'?
Another one!!!
People will look back on people like you and @148grss in 20 years time, and laugh.
Similar things were said about gay marriage, legalisation of homosexuality, and many other so-called 'progressive' causes. The conservatives were on the wrong side of history then. Why are you so convinced that you are on the 'right' side now?
I actually laugh at the homophobes who were against the legalisation of homosexuality or gay marriage. Or going back further, those who thought that women getting the vote was a bad idea.
History isn't indefinite one way traffic, for example the Restoration and Georgian eras were more socially liberal than the Cromwellian Protectorate or Victorian era. It may be we continue to become even more socially liberal or it may be we are now at peak social liberalism
Sure, once upon a time, communism, eugenics, and the legalisation of "cross generational relationship" were "progressive" causes. The reactionaries who opposed such things turned out to be on the right side of history.
Yes: Pedophilia in the 60s and 70s. Harriet Harman doesn’t talk about legalising that so much, these days
Tory ex-whips don't talk about keeping it quiet so much nowadays either. Here's Tim Fortescue boasting about how it was part of the whips' job to help Tory MPs who'd got themselves into a spot of bother involving "small boys" - a term he uses as if it were some kind of a joke. He was a whip when Edward Heath was party leader and prime minister:
Would an ex-whip talk like that to camera in the 2020s?
Heath used to sail to Jersey. At first the teeth found alongside bone fragments at the Haut de la Garenne children's home were declared to be children's milk teeth, but later it was a case of "As you were. Nothing to see here. They're teeth but they're not from human beings."
On topic, Boycott Costa. They've picked a side and need to be punished for it.
That's the only way Woke Capitalism and these Culture Wars end.
I won't be buying anything there for the foreseeable.
Do you realise quite how pathetic you sound? How the mere thought of 'inclusion' of a marginalised group causes you to screech and holler like a petulant child?
I fear you might find it quite hard to find places to buy stuff in future ...
Yes, but you're a fucking braindead Woke idiot- so we simply ignore what you say.
Who's 'we' ?
And what's your definition of 'woke'?
Another one!!!
People will look back on people like you and @148grss in 20 years time, and laugh.
Similar things were said about gay marriage, legalisation of homosexuality, and many other so-called 'progressive' causes. The conservatives were on the wrong side of history then. Why are you so convinced that you are on the 'right' side now?
I actually laugh at the homophobes who were against the legalisation of homosexuality or gay marriage. Or going back further, those who thought that women getting the vote was a bad idea.
History isn't indefinite one way traffic, for example the Restoration and Georgian eras were more socially liberal than the Cromwellian Protectorate or Victorian era. It may be we continue to become even more socially liberal or it may be we are now at peak social liberalism
Sure, once upon a time, communism, eugenics, and the legalisation of "cross generational relationship" were "progressive" causes. The reactionaries who opposed such things turned out to be on the right side of history.
Yes: Pedophilia in the 60s and 70s. Harriet Harman doesn’t talk about legalising that so much, these days
The battle is already being won.
Sturgeon and the SNP were eviscerated over their gender law, Gillette lost a huge amount of its share price, Unilever stopped its BS (and has now been exposed as a Putin apologist of a corporation) and NatWest/Coutts have been found out, and humbled. People are becoming far more comfortable in calling out the EDI madness in corporate HR departments.
This is all a good thing for sensible public discourse and free expression.
Next, it's Costa (too slow/thick to learn) but they too will be humbled, and then we shall have neutrality, humility and peace in the corporate space.
The hard ones to tackle will be in the charity/3rd sector (which are far harder to reach and much more deeply embedded - Hillary McGrady should have gone long ago) but they won't be able to resist the winds forever.
I wish I shared your confidence that Woke is being rolled back. But I don’t
Some people are fighting - at last - but it is still a rearguard action in most places
See the Times report today on critical race theory being openly taught in many hundreds of British PRIMARY schools
On topic, Boycott Costa. They've picked a side and need to be punished for it.
That's the only way Woke Capitalism and these Culture Wars end.
I won't be buying anything there for the foreseeable.
Do you realise quite how pathetic you sound? How the mere thought of 'inclusion' of a marginalised group causes you to screech and holler like a petulant child?
I fear you might find it quite hard to find places to buy stuff in future ...
Yes, but you're a fucking braindead Woke idiot- so we simply ignore what you say.
Who's 'we' ?
And what's your definition of 'woke'?
Another one!!!
People will look back on people like you and @148grss in 20 years time, and laugh.
Similar things were said about gay marriage, legalisation of homosexuality, and many other so-called 'progressive' causes. The conservatives were on the wrong side of history then. Why are you so convinced that you are on the 'right' side now?
I actually laugh at the homophobes who were against the legalisation of homosexuality or gay marriage. Or going back further, those who thought that women getting the vote was a bad idea.
History isn't indefinite one way traffic, for example the Restoration and Georgian eras were more socially liberal than the Cromwellian Protectorate or Victorian era. It may be we continue to become even more socially liberal or it may be we are now at peak social liberalism
One thing we've (almost) done through British history is become more scientifically rational in our politics and morals over time. So although the Victorians arguably appeared more socially conservative at the level of elites (not sure that's at all true for the bulk of the population level though) there were still revolutionary changes in scientific thought going on - like the theory evolution - that filtered into social norms.
So I predict any beliefs - right wing or left wing - that are not on strong scientific foundations will fade, and be replaced by more rational ones. That means that you can't generalise for all the aspects of things criticised as "wokeism" or PC gone mad which as Topping said is essentially the same thing.
- Understanding of climate change and the need to address it: will continue to grow and scepticism will wane as has already happened - Acceptance of people who transgress existing social norms: the scientific fact of the existence of people with different sexual identity will become more and more accepted; shorter lived fads based on ideology not science will fall by the wayside - LTNs and other things that annoy motorists but demonstrably improve local quality of life: in due course will be looked back on as inevitable because the evidence showed they worked; utopian plans to put us all on public transport: won't survive contact with reality - Mixed race couples in adverts: will be more and more representative of real life over time and people will stop complaining about them
etc.
The failure of Populism is because it is ultimately irrational. Moderation will win out in the end because it rests on decency and tolerance, but most importantly it rests on truth.
I'm not sure anything can "win out in the end" because real life, unlike a story, doesn't have an end. It seems more to me that societies move in waves, rising on enlightenment and rationalism before falling back again on populism and superstition. The best we can hope for is to ride the wave for as long as possible.
The thousand year old castle of Kremenets Podolskiy, perched on a rocky outcrop almost completely surrounded by a deep ravine
It is so impregnable, according to legend/history it was the only citadel to ever resist the Mongol hordes. I have my doubts about this but still. Wow
That’s straight into my top ten castles
Other contenders
Krak Des Chevaliers Caerphilly? Chenonceau Where else?
Corfe Portchester
Both of these are majorly influenced by their setting.
Setting is really key for castles. My favourites are generally the ruined ones. Manorbier is one example whose setting makes the difference. Skenfrith another. Berze le Chatel isn't ruined but is a lovely stony hulk of a building in a very pretty vineyard setting.
Ha! I know Skenfrith. It is a lyrical ruin
We have to have one from Scotland. Edinburgh maybe. Or Dunvegan on Skye
I find if you substitute the phrase "political correctness gone mad" for "woke" then it tells you all you need to know about the user of the word "woke".
Totally wrong, and another sign of limited intellect and ability to think.
Do you think telling people they have a limited intellect and inability to think helps?
On topic, Boycott Costa. They've picked a side and need to be punished for it.
That's the only way Woke Capitalism and these Culture Wars end.
I won't be buying anything there for the foreseeable.
CR: Oh no, not the trans topic again *eye roll emoji*
Also CR: Boycott Costa for showing a trans person in an advert.
What is "Woke Capitalism"? What are the "Culture Wars"? Do you also believe in "Cultural Marxism" or the like?
Is that what set Vernon off? I thought he was outraged that the Costa Loyalty Scheme now requires 10 purchases rather than 8 as previously before you qualify for your "loyalty coffee"...
On topic, Boycott Costa. They've picked a side and need to be punished for it.
That's the only way Woke Capitalism and these Culture Wars end.
I won't be buying anything there for the foreseeable.
CR: Oh no, not the trans topic again *eye roll emoji*
Also CR: Boycott Costa for showing a trans person in an advert.
What is "Woke Capitalism"? What are the "Culture Wars"? Do you also believe in "Cultural Marxism" or the like?
Can Capitalism really ever truly be woke? Back in the early 00s Disney was very squeamish about 'gay stuff', seemed to recoil away from anything that might hint at the whiff of same-sex relationships. Because they calculated they would turn more people off, which would hit their bottom line.
Now things have changed, and there is more to gain by embracing LGB than being silent. The T is just a bit behind that. If companies are right, then by embracing Trans issues, they'll make some more money than they otherwise might have. If they're wrong, they'll lose money and their businesses can be replaced by their competitors.
Companies aren't being "woke" (not that I know what some people mean by that) - they either market things they think will appeal to people with dispensable income, or they do things to cover their arses from lawsuits. They don't care about inclusion or diversity or whatever; they care about profit.
Yes, one can save a lot of time by recognising that (obviously there will be exceptions, as for every generalisation) If one doesn't like a system, work to change it, don't mess about targeting individual companies operating within it. There are three ways to effect change in a democratic market economy:
1. Pass a law making it mandatory 2. Change regulations to make it profitable for companies to do what you want 3. Encourage consumer behaviour to achieve the same effect.
In my less contentious sphere, we try to persuade Government (1) to mandate an end to live exports, (2) to provide subsidies to farmers transitioning from factory farming to less unpleasant systems and (3) introduce labelling of higher-welfare meat so consumers can vote with their wallets (as they did for eggs) and farmers can increase sales by responding to (2). What we don't do, by and large, is appeal to companies' better natures or condemn anyone for making a profit. We just assume they're open to good welfare but primarily want to be successful. In a funny sort of way, free market enthusiasts and Marxists agree - it's not about the individual businesses, but about how the system is set up.
Similarly, if younger consumers in particular have developed different values, don't blame Costa for responding to them. It's what companies do. If you think the younger consumers are morally wrong, launch a campaign to persuade them otherwise.
Trans people are people. They do not deserve to be buried in the shadows at society's edge. It is still within living memory that if you were gay you could go to prison, if you were black you were second class and if you were female you were little better than chattel.
And the "conservative" elements of society opposed the liberation of every one of those groups.
Non or questionably trans people also do not deserve to have their primary and secondary genitalia mutilated on the basis of misguided doctrinaire advice. If the level of your thinking on all this is such that you think that "trans people are people" is an insight worth sharing and that you think black, gay, female, trans, no remarkable difference between any of the cases, you need to think harder.
The thousand year old castle of Kremenets Podolskiy, perched on a rocky outcrop almost completely surrounded by a deep ravine
It is so impregnable, according to legend/history it was the only citadel to ever resist the Mongol hordes. I have my doubts about this but still. Wow
That’s straight into my top ten castles
Other contenders
Krak Des Chevaliers Caerphilly? Chenonceau Where else?
Corfe Portchester
Both of these are majorly influenced by their setting.
Setting is really key for castles. My favourites are generally the ruined ones. Manorbier is one example whose setting makes the difference. Skenfrith another. Berze le Chatel isn't ruined but is a lovely stony hulk of a building in a very pretty vineyard setting.
Ha! I know Skenfrith. It is a lyrical ruin
We have to have one from Scotland. Edinburgh maybe. Or Dunvegan on Skye
On topic, Boycott Costa. They've picked a side and need to be punished for it.
That's the only way Woke Capitalism and these Culture Wars end.
I won't be buying anything there for the foreseeable.
Do you realise quite how pathetic you sound? How the mere thought of 'inclusion' of a marginalised group causes you to screech and holler like a petulant child?
I fear you might find it quite hard to find places to buy stuff in future ...
Yes, but you're a fucking braindead Woke idiot- so we simply ignore what you say.
Who's 'we' ?
And what's your definition of 'woke'?
Another one!!!
People will look back on people like you and @148grss in 20 years time, and laugh.
Similar things were said about gay marriage, legalisation of homosexuality, and many other so-called 'progressive' causes. The conservatives were on the wrong side of history then. Why are you so convinced that you are on the 'right' side now?
I actually laugh at the homophobes who were against the legalisation of homosexuality or gay marriage. Or going back further, those who thought that women getting the vote was a bad idea.
History isn't indefinite one way traffic, for example the Restoration and Georgian eras were more socially liberal than the Cromwellian Protectorate or Victorian era. It may be we continue to become even more socially liberal or it may be we are now at peak social liberalism
Sure, once upon a time, communism, eugenics, and the legalisation of "cross generational relationship" were "progressive" causes. The reactionaries who opposed such things turned out to be on the right side of history.
Yes: Pedophilia in the 60s and 70s. Harriet Harman doesn’t talk about legalising that so much, these days
The battle is already being won.
Sturgeon and the SNP were eviscerated over their gender law, Gillette lost a huge amount of its share price, Unilever stopped its BS (and has now been exposed as a Putin apologist of a corporation) and NatWest/Coutts have been found out, and humbled. People are becoming far more comfortable in calling out the EDI madness in corporate HR departments.
This is all a good thing for sensible public discourse and free expression.
Next, it's Costa (too slow/thick to learn) but they too will be humbled, and then we shall have neutrality, humility and peace in the corporate space.
The hard ones to tackle will be in the charity/3rd sector (which are far harder to reach and much more deeply embedded - Hillary McGrady should have gone long ago) but they won't be able to resist the winds forever.
I wish I shared your confidence that Woke is being rolled back. But I don’t
Some people are fighting - at last - but it is still a rearguard action in most places
See the Times report today on critical race theory being openly taught in many hundreds of British PRIMARY schools
I do, because sunlight is the best disinfectant and as soon as these odious malpractices of progressive activism are exposed they quickly shrivel to nothing.
A growing number of countries, including some of the most progressive in Europe, are rejecting the U.S. “gender-affirming” model of care for transgender-identified youth. These countries have adopted a far more restrictive and cautious approach, one that prioritizes psychotherapy and reserves hormonal interventions for extreme cases……
Why are more countries turning their backs on what American medical associations, most Democrats and the American Civil Liberties Union call “medically necessary” and “life-saving” care? The answer is that Europeans are following principles of evidence-based medicine (EBM), while Americans are not.
I respect and would fight for Casino_Royale's right to spend his money where he wishes and good luck to him in his fight - but I do completely disagree and will continue to buy coffee and treats from Costa.
On topic, Boycott Costa. They've picked a side and need to be punished for it.
That's the only way Woke Capitalism and these Culture Wars end.
I won't be buying anything there for the foreseeable.
Do you realise quite how pathetic you sound? How the mere thought of 'inclusion' of a marginalised group causes you to screech and holler like a petulant child?
I fear you might find it quite hard to find places to buy stuff in future ...
Yes, but you're a fucking braindead Woke idiot- so we simply ignore what you say.
Who's 'we' ?
And what's your definition of 'woke'?
Another one!!!
People will look back on people like you and @148grss in 20 years time, and laugh.
Similar things were said about gay marriage, legalisation of homosexuality, and many other so-called 'progressive' causes. The conservatives were on the wrong side of history then. Why are you so convinced that you are on the 'right' side now?
I actually laugh at the homophobes who were against the legalisation of homosexuality or gay marriage. Or going back further, those who thought that women getting the vote was a bad idea.
History isn't indefinite one way traffic, for example the Restoration and Georgian eras were more socially liberal than the Cromwellian Protectorate or Victorian era. It may be we continue to become even more socially liberal or it may be we are now at peak social liberalism
Sure, once upon a time, communism, eugenics, and the legalisation of "cross generational relationship" were "progressive" causes. The reactionaries who opposed such things turned out to be on the right side of history.
Yes: Pedophilia in the 60s and 70s. Harriet Harman doesn’t talk about legalising that so much, these days
The battle is already being won.
Sturgeon and the SNP were eviscerated over their gender law, Gillette lost a huge amount of its share price, Unilever stopped its BS (and has now been exposed as a Putin apologist of a corporation) and NatWest/Coutts have been found out, and humbled. People are becoming far more comfortable in calling out the EDI madness in corporate HR departments.
This is all a good thing for sensible public discourse and free expression.
Next, it's Costa (too slow/thick to learn) but they too will be humbled, and then we shall have neutrality, humility and peace in the corporate space.
The hard ones to tackle will be in the charity/3rd sector (which are far harder to reach and much more deeply embedded - Hillary McGrady should have gone long ago) but they won't be able to resist the winds forever.
I wish I shared your confidence that Woke is being rolled back. But I don’t
Some people are fighting - at last - but it is still a rearguard action in most places
See the Times report today on critical race theory being openly taught in many hundreds of British PRIMARY schools
The thing that is starting to roll back woke - at least in the corporate world - is the impact it has on share prices and financial performance. Bud Light is still down 20%+ YoY, Target's share price has not recovered from the bad publicity and part of the reason Disney has been poor share price wise is because of both fears whether it is becoming embroiled in politics and that its woke-friendly films are not doing that great.
Any management that gets embroiled in this sh1t now runs the risk their investors will call for their heads.
Of course we’re not allowed abbeys. Why not airports, car parks and department stores for that matter
CASTLES ONLY
Malbork in Poland is huge and sinisterly interesting as the centre for the Teutonic knights, while Trakai in Lithuania, in the middle of the lake, is also quite beautiful. Would also accept votes for Prague Castle, Cesky Krumlov or Wawel in Krakow.
Closer to home... Dunottar or Glamis. Harlech or Conwy, Tintagel or Warwick.
On topic, Boycott Costa. They've picked a side and need to be punished for it.
That's the only way Woke Capitalism and these Culture Wars end.
I won't be buying anything there for the foreseeable.
CR: Oh no, not the trans topic again *eye roll emoji*
Also CR: Boycott Costa for showing a trans person in an advert.
What is "Woke Capitalism"? What are the "Culture Wars"? Do you also believe in "Cultural Marxism" or the like?
Can Capitalism really ever truly be woke? Back in the early 00s Disney was very squeamish about 'gay stuff', seemed to recoil away from anything that might hint at the whiff of same-sex relationships. Because they calculated they would turn more people off, which would hit their bottom line.
Now things have changed, and there is more to gain by embracing LGB than being silent. The T is just a bit behind that. If companies are right, then by embracing Trans issues, they'll make some more money than they otherwise might have. If they're wrong, they'll lose money and their businesses can be replaced by their competitors.
Companies aren't being "woke" (not that I know what some people mean by that) - they either market things they think will appeal to people with dispensable income, or they do things to cover their arses from lawsuits. They don't care about inclusion or diversity or whatever; they care about profit.
Yes, one can save a lot of time by recognising that (obviously there will be exceptions, as for every generalisation) If one doesn't like a system, work to change it, don't mess about targeting individual companies operating within it. There are three ways to effect change in a democratic market economy:
1. Pass a law making it mandatory 2. Change regulations to make it profitable for companies to do what you want 3. Encourage consumer behaviour to achieve the same effect.
In my less contentious sphere, we try to persuade Government (1) to mandate an end to live exports, (2) to provide subsidies to farmers transitioning from factory farming to less unpleasant systems and (3) introduce labelling of higher-welfare meat so consumers can vote with their wallets (as they did for eggs) and farmers can increase sales by responding to (2). What we don't do, by and large, is appeal to companies' better natures or condemn anyone for making a profit. We just assume they're open to good welfare but primarily want to be successful. In a funny sort of way, free market enthusiasts and Marxists agree - it's not about the individual businesses, but about how the system is set up.
Similarly, if younger consumers in particular have developed different values, don't blame Costa for responding to them. It's what companies do. If you think the younger consumers are morally wrong, launch a campaign to persuade them otherwise.
Trans people are people. They do not deserve to be buried in the shadows at society's edge. It is still within living memory that if you were gay you could go to prison, if you were black you were second class and if you were female you were little better than chattel.
And the "conservative" elements of society opposed the liberation of every one of those groups.
If we ever got to the point that trade was so gummed up that we were forced to eat shoe leather, the more zealous leavers would be opining that if it was not for Brexit we would never have known how good shoe leather tasted...
The thousand year old castle of Kremenets Podolskiy, perched on a rocky outcrop almost completely surrounded by a deep ravine
It is so impregnable, according to legend/history it was the only citadel to ever resist the Mongol hordes. I have my doubts about this but still. Wow
That’s straight into my top ten castles
Other contenders
Krak Des Chevaliers Caerphilly? Chenonceau Where else?
Corfe Portchester
Both of these are majorly influenced by their setting.
Setting is really key for castles. My favourites are generally the ruined ones. Manorbier is one example whose setting makes the difference. Skenfrith another. Berze le Chatel isn't ruined but is a lovely stony hulk of a building in a very pretty vineyard setting.
Personally quite like a ruin and have a fondness borne of familiarity with Conisbrough. Dunstanburgh is another fave.
On topic, Boycott Costa. They've picked a side and need to be punished for it.
That's the only way Woke Capitalism and these Culture Wars end.
I won't be buying anything there for the foreseeable.
CR: Oh no, not the trans topic again *eye roll emoji*
Also CR: Boycott Costa for showing a trans person in an advert.
What is "Woke Capitalism"? What are the "Culture Wars"? Do you also believe in "Cultural Marxism" or the like?
Can Capitalism really ever truly be woke? Back in the early 00s Disney was very squeamish about 'gay stuff', seemed to recoil away from anything that might hint at the whiff of same-sex relationships. Because they calculated they would turn more people off, which would hit their bottom line.
Now things have changed, and there is more to gain by embracing LGB than being silent. The T is just a bit behind that. If companies are right, then by embracing Trans issues, they'll make some more money than they otherwise might have. If they're wrong, they'll lose money and their businesses can be replaced by their competitors.
Companies aren't being "woke" (not that I know what some people mean by that) - they either market things they think will appeal to people with dispensable income, or they do things to cover their arses from lawsuits. They don't care about inclusion or diversity or whatever; they care about profit.
Yes, one can save a lot of time by recognising that (obviously there will be exceptions, as for every generalisation) If one doesn't like a system, work to change it, don't mess about targeting individual companies operating within it. There are three ways to effect change in a democratic market economy:
1. Pass a law making it mandatory 2. Change regulations to make it profitable for companies to do what you want 3. Encourage consumer behaviour to achieve the same effect.
In my less contentious sphere, we try to persuade Government (1) to mandate an end to live exports, (2) to provide subsidies to farmers transitioning from factory farming to less unpleasant systems and (3) introduce labelling of higher-welfare meat so consumers can vote with their wallets (as they did for eggs) and farmers can increase sales by responding to (2). What we don't do, by and large, is appeal to companies' better natures or condemn anyone for making a profit. We just assume they're open to good welfare but primarily want to be successful. In a funny sort of way, free market enthusiasts and Marxists agree - it's not about the individual businesses, but about how the system is set up.
Similarly, if younger consumers in particular have developed different values, don't blame Costa for responding to them. It's what companies do. If you think the younger consumers are morally wrong, launch a campaign to persuade them otherwise.
Trans people are people. They do not deserve to be buried in the shadows at society's edge. It is still within living memory that if you were gay you could go to prison, if you were black you were second class and if you were female you were little better than chattel.
And the "conservative" elements of society opposed the liberation of every one of those groups.
Another idiot speaks.
Indeed you do, but I forgive you. Your spasmodic utterances of moral outrage are like a pleasant old curtain dressing the windows of PB. It adds to the atmosphere of the place and is definitely more colourful than the recent bletherings about cricket.
On topic, Boycott Costa. They've picked a side and need to be punished for it.
That's the only way Woke Capitalism and these Culture Wars end.
I won't be buying anything there for the foreseeable.
CR: Oh no, not the trans topic again *eye roll emoji*
Also CR: Boycott Costa for showing a trans person in an advert.
What is "Woke Capitalism"? What are the "Culture Wars"? Do you also believe in "Cultural Marxism" or the like?
Is that what set Vernon off? I thought he was outraged that the Costa Loyalty Scheme now requires 10 purchases rather than 8 as previously before you qualify for your "loyalty coffee"...
Costa coffee is pretty terrible anyway, though habitués will know that, like Starbucks, it's essentially a confectionary chain.
Nero is easily the best high street coffee - at least for espresso drinkers like me.
The thousand year old castle of Kremenets Podolskiy, perched on a rocky outcrop almost completely surrounded by a deep ravine
It is so impregnable, according to legend/history it was the only citadel to ever resist the Mongol hordes. I have my doubts about this but still. Wow
That’s straight into my top ten castles
Other contenders
Krak Des Chevaliers Caerphilly? Chenonceau Where else?
Corfe Portchester
Both of these are majorly influenced by their setting.
Setting is really key for castles. My favourites are generally the ruined ones. Manorbier is one example whose setting makes the difference. Skenfrith another. Berze le Chatel isn't ruined but is a lovely stony hulk of a building in a very pretty vineyard setting.
Ha! I know Skenfrith. It is a lyrical ruin
We have to have one from Scotland. Edinburgh maybe. Or Dunvegan on Skye
For the sheer majesty of its setting I would propose Dunottar just south of Stonehaven.
The thousand year old castle of Kremenets Podolskiy, perched on a rocky outcrop almost completely surrounded by a deep ravine
It is so impregnable, according to legend/history it was the only citadel to ever resist the Mongol hordes. I have my doubts about this but still. Wow
That’s straight into my top ten castles
Other contenders
Krak Des Chevaliers Caerphilly? Chenonceau Where else?
Corfe Portchester
Both of these are majorly influenced by their setting.
Setting is really key for castles. My favourites are generally the ruined ones. Manorbier is one example whose setting makes the difference. Skenfrith another. Berze le Chatel isn't ruined but is a lovely stony hulk of a building in a very pretty vineyard setting.
Personally quite like a ruin and have a fondness borne of familiarity with Conisbrough. Dunstanburgh is another fave.
Dumbarton, Stirling, both at huge choke points of history and geography which are, uncoincidentally, very scenic for the same reasons.
Dover ditto, including the Western Heights and Drop Shaft (often forgotten, but they are below the surface ...).
On topic, Boycott Costa. They've picked a side and need to be punished for it.
That's the only way Woke Capitalism and these Culture Wars end.
I won't be buying anything there for the foreseeable.
CR: Oh no, not the trans topic again *eye roll emoji*
Also CR: Boycott Costa for showing a trans person in an advert.
What is "Woke Capitalism"? What are the "Culture Wars"? Do you also believe in "Cultural Marxism" or the like?
Can Capitalism really ever truly be woke? Back in the early 00s Disney was very squeamish about 'gay stuff', seemed to recoil away from anything that might hint at the whiff of same-sex relationships. Because they calculated they would turn more people off, which would hit their bottom line.
Now things have changed, and there is more to gain by embracing LGB than being silent. The T is just a bit behind that. If companies are right, then by embracing Trans issues, they'll make some more money than they otherwise might have. If they're wrong, they'll lose money and their businesses can be replaced by their competitors.
Companies aren't being "woke" (not that I know what some people mean by that) - they either market things they think will appeal to people with dispensable income, or they do things to cover their arses from lawsuits. They don't care about inclusion or diversity or whatever; they care about profit.
Yes, one can save a lot of time by recognising that (obviously there will be exceptions, as for every generalisation) If one doesn't like a system, work to change it, don't mess about targeting individual companies operating within it. There are three ways to effect change in a democratic market economy:
1. Pass a law making it mandatory 2. Change regulations to make it profitable for companies to do what you want 3. Encourage consumer behaviour to achieve the same effect.
In my less contentious sphere, we try to persuade Government (1) to mandate an end to live exports, (2) to provide subsidies to farmers transitioning from factory farming to less unpleasant systems and (3) introduce labelling of higher-welfare meat so consumers can vote with their wallets (as they did for eggs) and farmers can increase sales by responding to (2). What we don't do, by and large, is appeal to companies' better natures or condemn anyone for making a profit. We just assume they're open to good welfare but primarily want to be successful. In a funny sort of way, free market enthusiasts and Marxists agree - it's not about the individual businesses, but about how the system is set up.
Similarly, if younger consumers in particular have developed different values, don't blame Costa for responding to them. It's what companies do. If you think the younger consumers are morally wrong, launch a campaign to persuade them otherwise.
Trans people are people. They do not deserve to be buried in the shadows at society's edge. It is still within living memory that if you were gay you could go to prison, if you were black you were second class and if you were female you were little better than chattel.
And the "conservative" elements of society opposed the liberation of every one of those groups.
I find if you substitute the phrase "political correctness gone mad" for "woke" then it tells you all you need to know about the user of the word "woke".
Totally wrong, and another sign of limited intellect and ability to think.
Do you think telling people they have a limited intellect and inability to think helps?
I clean forgot Tomar castle in Portugal. The HQ of the Iberian Knights Templar (where they survived the abolition elsewhere)
Noble location, epic stories
Bled Castle quite something. Once had dinner there during a trip for an EU FP7 project. Precipice on one side is impressive. It looks a bit fairytale now, but has a pukka defensive history.
The thousand year old castle of Kremenets Podolskiy, perched on a rocky outcrop almost completely surrounded by a deep ravine
It is so impregnable, according to legend/history it was the only citadel to ever resist the Mongol hordes. I have my doubts about this but still. Wow
That’s straight into my top ten castles
Other contenders
Krak Des Chevaliers Caerphilly? Chenonceau Where else?
Chambord - more of a giant folly than a proper castle, but still.
I’ve been on the ROOF of Chambord. It’s a staggering building… but not quite a castle to my mind. Not really built as a fortress or defensible citadel
I think if you're going to include palaces then you need to consider Versailles.
NO PALACES
We should deffo include the Kremlin. That’s a proper castle. Fortified with battlements and machicolations and everything. Magnificent
How about forts - WW2 concrete jobbies etc? Thinking of some of those ones in the channel/solent etc
More 1850s to 1940s - some magnificent ones, such as Hurst Castle and Fort Nelson. Would like to explore some more of those, though I've ticked off most of the IoW ones. Neve rbeen on the freestanding ones out in Spithead.
On topic, Boycott Costa. They've picked a side and need to be punished for it.
That's the only way Woke Capitalism and these Culture Wars end.
I won't be buying anything there for the foreseeable.
CR: Oh no, not the trans topic again *eye roll emoji*
Also CR: Boycott Costa for showing a trans person in an advert.
What is "Woke Capitalism"? What are the "Culture Wars"? Do you also believe in "Cultural Marxism" or the like?
Can Capitalism really ever truly be woke? Back in the early 00s Disney was very squeamish about 'gay stuff', seemed to recoil away from anything that might hint at the whiff of same-sex relationships. Because they calculated they would turn more people off, which would hit their bottom line.
Now things have changed, and there is more to gain by embracing LGB than being silent. The T is just a bit behind that. If companies are right, then by embracing Trans issues, they'll make some more money than they otherwise might have. If they're wrong, they'll lose money and their businesses can be replaced by their competitors.
Companies aren't being "woke" (not that I know what some people mean by that) - they either market things they think will appeal to people with dispensable income, or they do things to cover their arses from lawsuits. They don't care about inclusion or diversity or whatever; they care about profit.
Yes, one can save a lot of time by recognising that (obviously there will be exceptions, as for every generalisation) If one doesn't like a system, work to change it, don't mess about targeting individual companies operating within it. There are three ways to effect change in a democratic market economy:
1. Pass a law making it mandatory 2. Change regulations to make it profitable for companies to do what you want 3. Encourage consumer behaviour to achieve the same effect.
In my less contentious sphere, we try to persuade Government (1) to mandate an end to live exports, (2) to provide subsidies to farmers transitioning from factory farming to less unpleasant systems and (3) introduce labelling of higher-welfare meat so consumers can vote with their wallets (as they did for eggs) and farmers can increase sales by responding to (2). What we don't do, by and large, is appeal to companies' better natures or condemn anyone for making a profit. We just assume they're open to good welfare but primarily want to be successful. In a funny sort of way, free market enthusiasts and Marxists agree - it's not about the individual businesses, but about how the system is set up.
Similarly, if younger consumers in particular have developed different values, don't blame Costa for responding to them. It's what companies do. If you think the younger consumers are morally wrong, launch a campaign to persuade them otherwise.
Trans people are people. They do not deserve to be buried in the shadows at society's edge. It is still within living memory that if you were gay you could go to prison, if you were black you were second class and if you were female you were little better than chattel.
And the "conservative" elements of society opposed the liberation of every one of those groups.
Another idiot speaks.
Indeed you do, but I forgive you. Your spasmodic utterances of moral outrage are like a pleasant old curtain dressing the windows of PB. It adds to the atmosphere of the place and is definitely more colourful than the recent bletherings about cricket.
The blast from the past here is you, actually. Let me guess: in your head you are reliving CND/gay rights/Apartheid sit ins from your early 70s heyday? I'd like to say it was funny and harmless, but consider this: the Mermaids CEO had her son castrated at the age of 16 because her husband was homophobic and the child was gay. She thought he's be OK with a girl. Was "emasculate gays" actually what you were arguing for back in the JCR?
I find if you substitute the phrase "political correctness gone mad" for "woke" then it tells you all you need to know about the user of the word "woke".
Totally wrong, and another sign of limited intellect and ability to think.
Do you think telling people they have a limited intellect and inability to think helps?
Yes, it might shake them out of parroting shibboleths they've picked up by reading the Guardian and other MSM broadcast media (like sheep) and shame them into reflecting on formulating their own point of view.
Nothing else jolts them like invective, so invective it is.
The thousand year old castle of Kremenets Podolskiy, perched on a rocky outcrop almost completely surrounded by a deep ravine
It is so impregnable, according to legend/history it was the only citadel to ever resist the Mongol hordes. I have my doubts about this but still. Wow
That’s straight into my top ten castles
Other contenders
Krak Des Chevaliers Caerphilly? Chenonceau Where else?
Chambord - more of a giant folly than a proper castle, but still.
I’ve been on the ROOF of Chambord. It’s a staggering building… but not quite a castle to my mind. Not really built as a fortress or defensible citadel
I think if you're going to include palaces then you need to consider Versailles.
NO PALACES
We should deffo include the Kremlin. That’s a proper castle. Fortified with battlements and machicolations and everything. Magnificent
How about forts - WW2 concrete jobbies etc? Thinking of some of those ones in the channel/solent etc
More 1850s to 1940s - some magnificent ones, such as Hurst Castle and Fort Nelson. Would like to explore some more of those, though I've ticked off most of the IoW ones. Neve rbeen on the freestanding ones out in Spithead.
You could argue that all of Gibraltar is a castle; like a natural motte and Bailey. In which case: Gibraltar
"When Ritchie Herron woke after gender reassignment surgery, he had a feeling he had made a terrible mistake.
Five years later, his scars still sometimes weep and he cannot walk long distances or ride a bike. “I’ve awakened from what was a mental health crisis, to a body that will be for ever changed and damaged,” he said. He no longer identifies as transgender and is living as a gay man “as best I can, given what has happened”."
to Oooh I fancy a decaf cappuccino with sprinkles.
Which just shows that careful psychological assessment should be an essential precursor to life altering treatments.
It's the trivialisation that grates. Fitting a colostomy bag is a life-saving surgery with, at a guess, many fewer patients subsequently regretting the procedure, so why not have a cartoon of one of those?
Regret rate for gender affirming care is between 1% - 5%
Do you think it’s going to stay there given
1) the woeful lack of follow up, now being corrected,
2) the substantial increase in the number of surgeries performed and
3) the significant expansion of treatment beyond the cohort that the Dutch study used - the basis for all this “care”?
Do you agree with Dr Helen Webberley that gender dysphoria is a mental health issue that, virtually uniquely among mental illnesses can be treated by surgery?
"Some studies suggest that rates of regret have declined over the years as patient selection and treatment methods have improved. In a review of 27 studies involving almost 8,000 teens and adults who had transgender surgeries, mostly in Europe, the U.S and Canada, 1% on average expressed regret. For some, regret was temporary, but a small number went on to have detransitioning or reversal surgeries, the 2021 review said."
Do you have a citation suggesting otherwise?
I’ll see your Associated Press article and raise you a letter to Plastic and Reconstructive surgery:
Bustos et al aimed to measure the prevalence of regret following gender-affirmation surgery. Given the significant rise in young people seeking medical intervention for gender dysphoria, which can include surgery, outcome studies that accurately assess regret are of increasing importance. In this letter, we argue that the conclusions of their systematic review and meta-analysis are questionable due to limitations in their methods and shortcomings of the studies selected…..
….A last and major concern involves sample selection. The cohort presenting with gender dysphoria today is substantially different from the cohort presenting during the research periods of the included studies. Further, there has been a significant liberalization over time of the criteria assessing readiness for surgery. Thus, the outcomes reported may be of limited relevance for estimating current surgery outcomes. Additionally, the generalization to “TGNB” populations seems unreliable, as it is based on an explicit sample size of only one “non-binary” patient. The authors do not address these issues.
In light of these numerous issues affecting study quality and data analysis, their conclusion that “our study has shown a very low percentage of regret in TGNB population after GAS” is, in our opinion, unsupported and potentially inaccurate.
If those saying “get better data” are wrong, some trans people will have had medical treatment delayed.
If the “affirmative care” model is wrong, a cohort of young, mainly gay & lesbian people will have been sterilised, castrated and multilated. For life. They will never orgasm, they will never have children.
I’d want to be very very sure of the data (which doesn’t exist) before sending children down that path.
On topic, Boycott Costa. They've picked a side and need to be punished for it.
That's the only way Woke Capitalism and these Culture Wars end.
I won't be buying anything there for the foreseeable.
CR: Oh no, not the trans topic again *eye roll emoji*
Also CR: Boycott Costa for showing a trans person in an advert.
What is "Woke Capitalism"? What are the "Culture Wars"? Do you also believe in "Cultural Marxism" or the like?
Is that what set Vernon off? I thought he was outraged that the Costa Loyalty Scheme now requires 10 purchases rather than 8 as previously before you qualify for your "loyalty coffee"...
Costa coffee is pretty terrible anyway, though habitués will know that, like Starbucks, it's essentially a confectionary chain.
Nero is easily the best high street coffee - at least for espresso drinkers like me.
I rarely use any of them but when I do it is Cafe Nero. I find Costa's coffee always tastes a bit stale and Starbucks very bland.
I prefer to buy good quality fairtrade and grind it fresh and treat myself to a custom roast bean from a local supplier. For supermarket stuff, Cafe Direct's "Mayan Gold" has been rather good recently.
On topic, Boycott Costa. They've picked a side and need to be punished for it.
That's the only way Woke Capitalism and these Culture Wars end.
I won't be buying anything there for the foreseeable.
CR: Oh no, not the trans topic again *eye roll emoji*
Also CR: Boycott Costa for showing a trans person in an advert.
What is "Woke Capitalism"? What are the "Culture Wars"? Do you also believe in "Cultural Marxism" or the like?
Can Capitalism really ever truly be woke? Back in the early 00s Disney was very squeamish about 'gay stuff', seemed to recoil away from anything that might hint at the whiff of same-sex relationships. Because they calculated they would turn more people off, which would hit their bottom line.
Now things have changed, and there is more to gain by embracing LGB than being silent. The T is just a bit behind that. If companies are right, then by embracing Trans issues, they'll make some more money than they otherwise might have. If they're wrong, they'll lose money and their businesses can be replaced by their competitors.
Companies aren't being "woke" (not that I know what some people mean by that) - they either market things they think will appeal to people with dispensable income, or they do things to cover their arses from lawsuits. They don't care about inclusion or diversity or whatever; they care about profit.
Yes, one can save a lot of time by recognising that (obviously there will be exceptions, as for every generalisation) If one doesn't like a system, work to change it, don't mess about targeting individual companies operating within it. There are three ways to effect change in a democratic market economy:
1. Pass a law making it mandatory 2. Change regulations to make it profitable for companies to do what you want 3. Encourage consumer behaviour to achieve the same effect.
In my less contentious sphere, we try to persuade Government (1) to mandate an end to live exports, (2) to provide subsidies to farmers transitioning from factory farming to less unpleasant systems and (3) introduce labelling of higher-welfare meat so consumers can vote with their wallets (as they did for eggs) and farmers can increase sales by responding to (2). What we don't do, by and large, is appeal to companies' better natures or condemn anyone for making a profit. We just assume they're open to good welfare but primarily want to be successful. In a funny sort of way, free market enthusiasts and Marxists agree - it's not about the individual businesses, but about how the system is set up.
Similarly, if younger consumers in particular have developed different values, don't blame Costa for responding to them. It's what companies do. If you think the younger consumers are morally wrong, launch a campaign to persuade them otherwise.
Trans people are people. They do not deserve to be buried in the shadows at society's edge. It is still within living memory that if you were gay you could go to prison, if you were black you were second class and if you were female you were little better than chattel.
And the "conservative" elements of society opposed the liberation of every one of those groups.
Another idiot speaks.
Indeed you do, but I forgive you. Your spasmodic utterances of moral outrage are like a pleasant old curtain dressing the windows of PB. It adds to the atmosphere of the place and is definitely more colourful than the recent bletherings about cricket.
The blast from the past here is you, actually. Let me guess: in your head you are reliving CND/gay rights/Apartheid sit ins from your early 70s heyday? I'd like to say it was funny and harmless, but consider this: the Mermaids CEO had her son castrated at the age of 16 because her husband was homophobic and the child was gay. She thought he's be OK with a girl. Was "emasculate gays" actually what you were arguing for back in the JCR?
The tragedy of Beverley is that she thinks she's really bright whereas, in reality, she is anything but.
The thousand year old castle of Kremenets Podolskiy, perched on a rocky outcrop almost completely surrounded by a deep ravine
It is so impregnable, according to legend/history it was the only citadel to ever resist the Mongol hordes. I have my doubts about this but still. Wow
That’s straight into my top ten castles
Other contenders
Krak Des Chevaliers Caerphilly? Chenonceau Where else?
Corfe Portchester
Both of these are majorly influenced by their setting.
Setting is really key for castles. My favourites are generally the ruined ones. Manorbier is one example whose setting makes the difference. Skenfrith another. Berze le Chatel isn't ruined but is a lovely stony hulk of a building in a very pretty vineyard setting.
Ha! I know Skenfrith. It is a lyrical ruin
We have to have one from Scotland. Edinburgh maybe. Or Dunvegan on Skye
For the sheer majesty of its setting I would propose Dunottar just south of Stonehaven.
On topic, Boycott Costa. They've picked a side and need to be punished for it.
That's the only way Woke Capitalism and these Culture Wars end.
I won't be buying anything there for the foreseeable.
Do you realise quite how pathetic you sound? How the mere thought of 'inclusion' of a marginalised group causes you to screech and holler like a petulant child?
I fear you might find it quite hard to find places to buy stuff in future ...
Yes, but you're a fucking braindead Woke idiot- so we simply ignore what you say.
Who's 'we' ?
And what's your definition of 'woke'?
Another one!!!
People will look back on people like you and @148grss in 20 years time, and laugh.
Similar things were said about gay marriage, legalisation of homosexuality, and many other so-called 'progressive' causes. The conservatives were on the wrong side of history then. Why are you so convinced that you are on the 'right' side now?
I actually laugh at the homophobes who were against the legalisation of homosexuality or gay marriage. Or going back further, those who thought that women getting the vote was a bad idea.
History isn't indefinite one way traffic, for example the Restoration and Georgian eras were more socially liberal than the Cromwellian Protectorate or Victorian era. It may be we continue to become even more socially liberal or it may be we are now at peak social liberalism
Sure, once upon a time, communism, eugenics, and the legalisation of "cross generational relationship" were "progressive" causes. The reactionaries who opposed such things turned out to be on the right side of history.
Yes: Pedophilia in the 60s and 70s. Harriet Harman doesn’t talk about legalising that so much, these days
The battle is already being won.
Sturgeon and the SNP were eviscerated over their gender law, Gillette lost a huge amount of its share price, Unilever stopped its BS (and has now been exposed as a Putin apologist of a corporation) and NatWest/Coutts have been found out, and humbled. People are becoming far more comfortable in calling out the EDI madness in corporate HR departments.
This is all a good thing for sensible public discourse and free expression.
Next, it's Costa (too slow/thick to learn) but they too will be humbled, and then we shall have neutrality, humility and peace in the corporate space.
The hard ones to tackle will be in the charity/3rd sector (which are far harder to reach and much more deeply embedded - Hillary McGrady should have gone long ago) but they won't be able to resist the winds forever.
There's nothing woke about the Gillette video I just watched criticising toxic masculinity and saying people shouldn't tolerate bullying or the harassment of women.
That's totally different from e.g. saying a man who claims to be a woman, or who thinks he's a woman, should be allowed into women's toilets, or that "mother" is a bad term that should be replaced with "birth parent" because some "people with vaginas" who give birth to babies are men.
TOTALLY DIFFERENT
Those who disagree are the kind of far-rightwing gammons who like to think about "Rhodesia" and who turn a furious shade of purple when they remember the Coca-Cola video from 50 years ago that showed black people and white people enjoying each other's company.
The thousand year old castle of Kremenets Podolskiy, perched on a rocky outcrop almost completely surrounded by a deep ravine
It is so impregnable, according to legend/history it was the only citadel to ever resist the Mongol hordes. I have my doubts about this but still. Wow
That’s straight into my top ten castles
Other contenders
Krak Des Chevaliers Caerphilly? Chenonceau Where else?
Corfe Portchester
Both of these are majorly influenced by their setting.
Setting is really key for castles. My favourites are generally the ruined ones. Manorbier is one example whose setting makes the difference. Skenfrith another. Berze le Chatel isn't ruined but is a lovely stony hulk of a building in a very pretty vineyard setting.
Ha! I know Skenfrith. It is a lyrical ruin
We have to have one from Scotland. Edinburgh maybe. Or Dunvegan on Skye
For the sheer majesty of its setting I would propose Dunottar just south of Stonehaven.
Never heard of it. Just googled. Impressive!
Yes indeed. In some ways it reminds me of Dunluce Castle
Any list of great castles that doesn't have Edinburgh on it is bullshit
Stirling edges it, I think; but only just. Edinburgh also scores as a scenic castle which was a geographical choke point for exactly the reasons of the scenery. Tantallon for its coastal location near the Bass Rock. Crichton for its amazingly Italianate interior after a grim outside.
The thousand year old castle of Kremenets Podolskiy, perched on a rocky outcrop almost completely surrounded by a deep ravine
It is so impregnable, according to legend/history it was the only citadel to ever resist the Mongol hordes. I have my doubts about this but still. Wow
That’s straight into my top ten castles
Other contenders
Krak Des Chevaliers Caerphilly? Chenonceau Where else?
Corfe Portchester
Both of these are majorly influenced by their setting.
Setting is really key for castles. My favourites are generally the ruined ones. Manorbier is one example whose setting makes the difference. Skenfrith another. Berze le Chatel isn't ruined but is a lovely stony hulk of a building in a very pretty vineyard setting.
Ha! I know Skenfrith. It is a lyrical ruin
We have to have one from Scotland. Edinburgh maybe. Or Dunvegan on Skye
On topic, Boycott Costa. They've picked a side and need to be punished for it.
That's the only way Woke Capitalism and these Culture Wars end.
I won't be buying anything there for the foreseeable.
CR: Oh no, not the trans topic again *eye roll emoji*
Also CR: Boycott Costa for showing a trans person in an advert.
What is "Woke Capitalism"? What are the "Culture Wars"? Do you also believe in "Cultural Marxism" or the like?
Is that what set Vernon off? I thought he was outraged that the Costa Loyalty Scheme now requires 10 purchases rather than 8 as previously before you qualify for your "loyalty coffee"...
Costa coffee is pretty terrible anyway, though habitués will know that, like Starbucks, it's essentially a confectionary chain.
Nero is easily the best high street coffee - at least for espresso drinkers like me.
I rarely use any of them but when I do it is Cafe Nero. I find Costa's coffee always tastes a bit stale and Starbucks very bland.
I prefer to buy good quality fairtrade and grind it fresh and treat myself to a custom roast bean from a local supplier. For supermarket stuff, Cafe Direct's "Mayan Gold" has been rather good recently.
Happily in Manchester there's an abundance of good independent coffee roasters. My go-to is Mancoco's espresso blend, though I will occasionally splash out for a fancy single-origin bean, especially natural process stuff.
The thousand year old castle of Kremenets Podolskiy, perched on a rocky outcrop almost completely surrounded by a deep ravine
It is so impregnable, according to legend/history it was the only citadel to ever resist the Mongol hordes. I have my doubts about this but still. Wow
That’s straight into my top ten castles
Other contenders
Krak Des Chevaliers Caerphilly? Chenonceau Where else?
Corfe Portchester
Both of these are majorly influenced by their setting.
Setting is really key for castles. My favourites are generally the ruined ones. Manorbier is one example whose setting makes the difference. Skenfrith another. Berze le Chatel isn't ruined but is a lovely stony hulk of a building in a very pretty vineyard setting.
Ha! I know Skenfrith. It is a lyrical ruin
We have to have one from Scotland. Edinburgh maybe. Or Dunvegan on Skye
For the sheer majesty of its setting I would propose Dunottar just south of Stonehaven.
Never heard of it. Just googled. Impressive!
Yes indeed. In some ways it reminds me of Dunluce Castle
"When Ritchie Herron woke after gender reassignment surgery, he had a feeling he had made a terrible mistake.
Five years later, his scars still sometimes weep and he cannot walk long distances or ride a bike. “I’ve awakened from what was a mental health crisis, to a body that will be for ever changed and damaged,” he said. He no longer identifies as transgender and is living as a gay man “as best I can, given what has happened”."
to Oooh I fancy a decaf cappuccino with sprinkles.
Which just shows that careful psychological assessment should be an essential precursor to life altering treatments.
It's the trivialisation that grates. Fitting a colostomy bag is a life-saving surgery with, at a guess, many fewer patients subsequently regretting the procedure, so why not have a cartoon of one of those?
Regret rate for gender affirming care is between 1% - 5%
Do you think it’s going to stay there given
1) the woeful lack of follow up, now being corrected,
2) the substantial increase in the number of surgeries performed and
3) the significant expansion of treatment beyond the cohort that the Dutch study used - the basis for all this “care”?
Do you agree with Dr Helen Webberley that gender dysphoria is a mental health issue that, virtually uniquely among mental illnesses can be treated by surgery?
"Some studies suggest that rates of regret have declined over the years as patient selection and treatment methods have improved. In a review of 27 studies involving almost 8,000 teens and adults who had transgender surgeries, mostly in Europe, the U.S and Canada, 1% on average expressed regret. For some, regret was temporary, but a small number went on to have detransitioning or reversal surgeries, the 2021 review said."
Do you have a citation suggesting otherwise?
I doubt it. The anti-trans brigade only ever seem to trot out the same small number of detransioners whenever this topic is brought up. If trans-related surgeries were as full of regret as they claim where are all the others? They can’t all be cowering in fear of those terrible trans activists we keep being warned about.
All this anti-surgery campaigning infantilises those who choose that path. Bodily autonomy matters: people get to choose what they do with & to their own bodies. They also get to own the consequences. So long as they get appropriate counselling to enable them to make informed consent, who are we to prevent them from making changes to their own bodies?
The thousand year old castle of Kremenets Podolskiy, perched on a rocky outcrop almost completely surrounded by a deep ravine
It is so impregnable, according to legend/history it was the only citadel to ever resist the Mongol hordes. I have my doubts about this but still. Wow
That’s straight into my top ten castles
Other contenders
Krak Des Chevaliers Caerphilly? Chenonceau Where else?
Chambord - more of a giant folly than a proper castle, but still.
I’ve been on the ROOF of Chambord. It’s a staggering building… but not quite a castle to my mind. Not really built as a fortress or defensible citadel
I think if you're going to include palaces then you need to consider Versailles.
NO PALACES
We should deffo include the Kremlin. That’s a proper castle. Fortified with battlements and machicolations and everything. Magnificent
How about forts - WW2 concrete jobbies etc? Thinking of some of those ones in the channel/solent etc
More 1850s to 1940s - some magnificent ones, such as Hurst Castle and Fort Nelson. Would like to explore some more of those, though I've ticked off most of the IoW ones. Neve rbeen on the freestanding ones out in Spithead.
You could argue that all of Gibraltar is a castle; like a natural motte and Bailey. In which case: Gibraltar
Just reading a histdory of the Royal Artillery at Malta, which looks very promising castle wise - though not the whole island, in the Gibraltarian sense as you rightly say.
"When Ritchie Herron woke after gender reassignment surgery, he had a feeling he had made a terrible mistake.
Five years later, his scars still sometimes weep and he cannot walk long distances or ride a bike. “I’ve awakened from what was a mental health crisis, to a body that will be for ever changed and damaged,” he said. He no longer identifies as transgender and is living as a gay man “as best I can, given what has happened”."
to Oooh I fancy a decaf cappuccino with sprinkles.
Which just shows that careful psychological assessment should be an essential precursor to life altering treatments.
It's the trivialisation that grates. Fitting a colostomy bag is a life-saving surgery with, at a guess, many fewer patients subsequently regretting the procedure, so why not have a cartoon of one of those?
Regret rate for gender affirming care is between 1% - 5%
Do you think it’s going to stay there given
1) the woeful lack of follow up, now being corrected,
2) the substantial increase in the number of surgeries performed and
3) the significant expansion of treatment beyond the cohort that the Dutch study used - the basis for all this “care”?
Do you agree with Dr Helen Webberley that gender dysphoria is a mental health issue that, virtually uniquely among mental illnesses can be treated by surgery?
"Some studies suggest that rates of regret have declined over the years as patient selection and treatment methods have improved. In a review of 27 studies involving almost 8,000 teens and adults who had transgender surgeries, mostly in Europe, the U.S and Canada, 1% on average expressed regret. For some, regret was temporary, but a small number went on to have detransitioning or reversal surgeries, the 2021 review said."
Do you have a citation suggesting otherwise?
I doubt it. The anti-trans brigade only ever seem to trot out the same small number of detransioners whenever this topic is brought up. If trans-related surgeries were as full of regret as they claim where are all the others? They can’t all be cowering in fear of those terrible trans activists we keep being warned about.
All this anti-surgery campaigning infantilises those who choose that path. Bodily autonomy matters: people get to choose what they do with & to their own bodies. They also get to own the consequences. So long as they get appropriate counselling to enable them to make informed consent, who are we to prevent them from making changes to their own bodies?
I wonder where the moral outrage about tattooing is? Also permanent and sometimes disfiguring (says someone who is free of tattoos )
Comments
If you just want to say "the definition I give you will allow you to argue against a definitive thing rather than a miasmic concept that I find useful because I can always No True Scotsman anything to be or not be Woke to suit my needs" I will accept that. Elsewise actually knowing what people mean by the words they say is kind of the only useful way to have a dialogue. If you don't wish to have a dialogue, I would suggest not interacting on an internet forum with other people.
Is it right that someone else (a doctor, your peers, people on internet chat rooms) get to determine your gender.
Imagine if I told @rcs1000 that he really thought that Radiohead was the worst band in the world. Crazy talk, right? But I have set myself up as the gatekeeper to his musical tastes.
Not my best analogy but it gets us there.
Needless to say for safeguarding purposes there need to be gatekeepers and rules and so forth but the essence of the "no debate" argument is that.
1) the woeful lack of follow up, now being corrected,
2) the substantial increase in the number of surgeries performed and
3) the significant expansion of treatment beyond the cohort that the Dutch study used - the basis for all this “care”?
Do you agree with Dr Helen Webberley that gender dysphoria is a mental health issue that, virtually uniquely among mental illnesses can be treated by surgery?
https://twitter.com/HelenWebberley/status/1686087509858467840?s=20
I wonder if Costa would ever actually SHOW PHOTOS of what “routine top surgery” actually looks like, post-op - so as to be more “inclusive”?
No, they wouldn’t. Because the results are intensely distressing to see. The outright mutilation. It’s not a couple of cute, playful little scars
Portchester
Both of these are majorly influenced by their setting.
Editted to add: Castelnaud-la-Chapelle Castle (on the Dordogne)
Stunning setting. Have visited this one a couple of times over the years.
"The Folly of Liberal History", Kraut, June 30 2022, see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w38t-NhrADM
So I predict any beliefs - right wing or left wing - that are not on strong scientific foundations will fade, and be replaced by more rational ones. That means that you can't generalise for all the aspects of things criticised as "wokeism" or PC gone mad which as Topping said is essentially the same thing.
- Understanding of climate change and the need to address it: will continue to grow and scepticism will wane as has already happened
- Acceptance of people who transgress existing social norms: the scientific fact of the existence of people with different sexual identity will become more and more accepted; shorter lived fads based on ideology not science will fall by the wayside
- LTNs and other things that annoy motorists but demonstrably improve local quality of life: in due course will be looked back on as inevitable because the evidence showed they worked; utopian plans to put us all on public transport: won't survive contact with reality
- Mixed race couples in adverts: will be more and more representative of real life over time and people will stop complaining about them
etc.
It is sad this individual thought they were trans and did not find surgery useful. But the vast majority of patients waiting for trans affirming care wait LONGER than the legal waiting time for their treatment. Many transwomen who want HRT or testosterone blockers, which is over the counter medicine for ciswomen going through the menopause or easily gettable for any cisman who is depressed they're going bald, wait years to access it. This is what then rushes people into actions they may be unsure about - because when they finally are seen they can't show any doubts because they'll go to the back of the queue again. One of the main criticisms of the GIC was that it was too SLOW in its treatment of patients, especially young people, and that the waiting lists of 6-8 years for gender affirming care were unacceptable. Indeed, the findings said closing down the Tavistock to replace it with more regional based care facilities would allow for more trans people to get the treatment they need faster.
Brussels tells EU states to ignore UK on post-Brexit trade
The UK Government has been rebuked by Brussels for trying to bypass post-Brexit trade rules.
The Independent revealed this morning that the European Commission was unhappy with British officials after it emerged they had tried to directly contact Member States.
The Commission told countries to ignore the UK Government and sent a memo that states were only to provide "short general information".
The Commission later warned the UK about contacting countries saying it was a "significant concern"...
The Commission swiftly responded by issuing a memo that "Member states are advised not to respond to the online questionnaire requested by the UK".
On the same day, an official from the Commission health directorate warned DEFRA against using "channels outside" the EU-UK trade agreement.
Director at the European Centre for International Political Economy David Henig said: "It looks unwise for the UK to have approached the issue in this way, something that could damage the trust we need".
Mr Henig added it was "symbolic of a still-struggling relationship - its more friction we don’t need".
The UK's first Brexit Secretary David Davis said it is unlikely to be the last time something like this occurs: "This is going to happen time and time again...Good diplomacy tries to understand the person you are negotiating with".
Brexiteers have been quick to label the EU "unfriendly", with Conservative MP Jacob Rees Mogg saying "It seems to me to be a protectionist measure designed to trade more difficult".
No downsides, only considerable upsides, etc, etc, ad nauseum. Entirely unsurprised to see Davis and Rees Mogg commenting on this. Laughable.
But of course a lot of damage has already been done, both in direct hosing of money down the drain and, even more important, in the effect of the regulatory instability on business investment and confidence. The UKCA and REACH lunacies were particularly egregious because, if we'd had a vaguely sane government post 2019, we might have been able to retain the right for certification to be done by UK bodies. As it is, Boris and Lord Frost have forced UK companies to go to EU-based certification bodies, at extra cost and inconvenience, and gratuitously damaged the business of the UK certifiers.
Whatever one thinks about the principle of Brexit, the Boris implementation of it was quite spectacularly incompetent. It's hard to think of anything comparable,
It’s a bit like doing a study on “does marriage make you happy?”
In America they only ask married people - and the answer is “yes”.
In Europe they ask people who are married and those who have been married - in other words now divorced. They get a different result.
The science is not only not “settled” it’s woeful.
1. Pass a law making it mandatory
2. Change regulations to make it profitable for companies to do what you want
3. Encourage consumer behaviour to achieve the same effect.
In my less contentious sphere, we try to persuade Government (1) to mandate an end to live exports, (2) to provide subsidies to farmers transitioning from factory farming to less unpleasant systems and (3) introduce labelling of higher-welfare meat so consumers can vote with their wallets (as they did for eggs) and farmers can increase sales by responding to (2). What we don't do, by and large, is appeal to companies' better natures or condemn anyone for making a profit. We just assume they're open to good welfare but primarily want to be successful. In a funny sort of way, free market enthusiasts and Marxists agree - it's not about the individual businesses, but about how the system is set up.
Similarly, if younger consumers in particular have developed different values, don't blame Costa for responding to them. It's what companies do. If you think the younger consumers are morally wrong, launch a campaign to persuade them otherwise.
Tintern if so.
In the EU, sovereign countries "contacting countries" within it is seen as a "significant concern", and the Commission will try and bring you to heel and close you down.
What a contemptible organisation it is.
Why are more countries turning their backs on what American medical associations, most Democrats and the American Civil Liberties Union call “medically necessary” and “life-saving” care? The answer is that Europeans are following principles of evidence-based medicine (EBM), while Americans are not…….
Similar problems exist in studies purporting to show a rate of transition regret of less than 1 percent. The true rate of regret is not known and won’t be known for years to come. The claim that gender dysphoric teens are at high risk of suicide if not given access to “gender-affirming” drugs and surgeries is likewise baseless and irresponsible. In February, Finland’s top expert in gender medicine emphasized this point to the country’s liberal newspaper of record.
https://thehill.com/opinion/healthcare/4070174-why-europe-and-america-are-going-in-opposite-directions-on-youth-transgender-medicine/amp/
We have to have one from Scotland. Edinburgh maybe. Or Dunvegan on Skye
Generalising the question to all studies, the phenomenon you refer to is the drop-out rate. This afflicts all studies over time: people are not incarcerated and some will forget, refuse or move away (for older people this includes emigration). I have seen drop-out rates of as much as 10%. Care should be taken to investigate whether this drop-out (known as censorship) is informative or non-informative. If it is non-informative it may be neglected (although that makes me nervous), but if it is informative you need to take it into account.
With respect to the study(s) you are referring to (I have not looked at them, although I suspect I may have to if this continues), the fact of a drop-out rate is not in itself condemnatory, rather it's the size and the means taken to cope with it.
https://gic.nhs.uk/appointments/waiting-times/
https://www.voanews.com/a/how-common-is-transgender-treatment-regret-detransitioning-/6993101.html
I don't know if I agree that gender dysphoria is a mental illness. It is clearly material - it is not caused by a "gendered soul" as some here have claimed trans advocates argue. I accept that dysphoria is something that severely impacts people negatively, and that gender dysphoria is greatly reduced by social transition, hormone therapy and some surgeries. I have listened to some trans people argue that the diagnosis of "gender dysphoria" is the equivalent of just calling something "mad trans disease" because all the medicine and gatekeeping of medicine for trans people is typically via cis people and based on science done by cis people, and therefore trans people have to align their experience with what cis gatekeepers expect in order to get their treatment - whether their experience fits that expectation or not.
I have also heard convincing arguments that many cis people suffer with gender dysphoria - women who feel less like a woman due to menopause, mastectomies or hysterectomies or because of the shape of their nose or the size of their breasts; men who feel less manly if they're balding or have had a vasectomy. Many of these are socially imposed ideas of masculinity or femininity, and often include medical interventions to deal with (balding men can get testosterone blockers if it is causing them depression; women who have had mastectomies due to cancer can get reconstructive surgery if they feel it has had a negative impact on their self image).
I think it is certainly possible that in societies where gender norms are less strict or have trans inclusive gender identities fewer people may feel the need for surgery as part of their transition because the association between physical features and gender may be lessened. That is a hard hypothesis to test currently.
CASTLES ONLY
Herron was mentally ill with depression and OCD
" found people online and felt that they related to them" is highly questionable. You don't know who is what online, and to do anything based on online advice is to make a catastrophic error. And I suspect that many of these online blokes are thoughtless cheerleaders who think Yay, transgender is about joy and pride and primary colours and raises not one single issue which is different from or more complex than the gay pride marches of my youth.
You mustn't think everyone is against you. I have been fiercely pro gay rights since I knew they were an issue - so long ago that this was not the default position - and I am no less pro trans rights. But what was done to Ritchie Herron was terrible. It was genital mutilation. I am not having you write him off as a 1%, eggs and omelettes sort of case.
Sturgeon and the SNP were eviscerated over their gender law, Gillette lost a huge amount of its share price, Unilever stopped its BS (and has now been exposed as a Putin apologist of a corporation) and NatWest/Coutts have been found out, and humbled. People are becoming far more comfortable in calling out the EDI madness in corporate HR departments.
This is all a good thing for sensible public discourse and free expression.
Next, it's Costa (too slow/thick to learn) but they too will be humbled, and then we shall have neutrality, humility and peace in the corporate space.
The hard ones to tackle will be in the charity/3rd sector (which are far harder to reach and much more deeply embedded - Hillary McGrady should have gone long ago) but they won't be able to resist the winds forever.
Not everyone does.
"Some studies suggest that rates of regret have declined over the years as patient selection and treatment methods have improved. In a review of 27 studies involving almost 8,000 teens and adults who had transgender surgeries, mostly in Europe, the U.S and Canada, 1% on average expressed regret. For some, regret was temporary, but a small number went on to have detransitioning or reversal surgeries, the 2021 review said."
Do you have a citation suggesting otherwise?
And the "conservative" elements of society opposed the liberation of every one of those groups.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4I6gXrk_Ws
Would an ex-whip talk like that to camera in the 2020s?
Heath used to sail to Jersey. At first the teeth found alongside bone fragments at the Haut de la Garenne children's home were declared to be children's milk teeth, but later it was a case of "As you were. Nothing to see here. They're teeth but they're not from human beings."
Edit: Apologies, just read that was mentioned initially.
Some people are fighting - at last - but it is still a rearguard action in most places
See the Times report today on critical race theory being openly taught in many hundreds of British PRIMARY schools
You were warned Brexit would make trade harder.
Brexit makes trade harder.
"Which, in and of itself, justifies Brexit."
WTF?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Slains_Castle
https://rolandia.eu/en/blog/places/bran-castle-chasing-vampires-at-dracula-s-castle
https://rolandia.eu/en/blog/places/the-corvin-castle
Eltz?
Soft spot for Arundel Castle though I haven't been for many years.
They are hugely unpopular.
https://www.assignedmedia.org/breaking-news/gender-affirming-care-europe
Any management that gets embroiled in this sh1t now runs the risk their investors will call for their heads.
Closer to home... Dunottar or Glamis. Harlech or Conwy, Tintagel or Warwick.
Noble location, epic stories
Nero is easily the best high street coffee - at least for espresso drinkers like me.
We don't yet know which is which, although we may have a reasonable idea.
Dover ditto, including the Western Heights and Drop Shaft (often forgotten, but they are below the surface ...).
Which is why pronouncing on anything with absolute moral certainty is foolhardy.
Nothing else jolts them like invective, so invective it is.
Bustos et al aimed to measure the prevalence of regret following gender-affirmation surgery. Given the significant rise in young people seeking medical intervention for gender dysphoria, which can include surgery, outcome studies that accurately assess regret are of increasing importance. In this letter, we argue that the conclusions of their systematic review and meta-analysis are questionable due to limitations in their methods and shortcomings of the studies selected…..
….A last and major concern involves sample selection. The cohort presenting with gender dysphoria today is substantially different from the cohort presenting during the research periods of the included studies. Further, there has been a significant liberalization over time of the criteria assessing readiness for surgery. Thus, the outcomes reported may be of limited relevance for estimating current surgery outcomes. Additionally, the generalization to “TGNB” populations seems unreliable, as it is based on an explicit sample size of only one “non-binary” patient. The authors do not address these issues.
In light of these numerous issues affecting study quality and data analysis, their conclusion that “our study has shown a very low percentage of regret in TGNB population after GAS” is, in our opinion, unsupported and potentially inaccurate.
https://journals.lww.com/prsgo/fulltext/2021/11000/letter_to_the_editor__regret_after.29.aspx
Look at it this way.
If those saying “get better data” are wrong, some trans people will have had medical treatment delayed.
If the “affirmative care” model is wrong, a cohort of young, mainly gay & lesbian people will have been sterilised, castrated and multilated. For life. They will never orgasm, they will never have children.
I’d want to be very very sure of the data (which doesn’t exist) before sending children down that path.
I prefer to buy good quality fairtrade and grind it fresh and treat myself to a custom roast bean from a local supplier. For supermarket stuff, Cafe Direct's "Mayan Gold" has been rather good recently.
Man bought private jet with borrowed council money
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-66340991
That's totally different from e.g. saying a man who claims to be a woman, or who thinks he's a woman, should be allowed into women's toilets, or that "mother" is a bad term that should be replaced with "birth parent" because some "people with vaginas" who give birth to babies are men.
TOTALLY DIFFERENT
Those who disagree are the kind of far-rightwing gammons who like to think about "Rhodesia" and who turn a furious shade of purple when they remember the Coca-Cola video from 50 years ago that showed black people and white people enjoying each other's company.
All this anti-surgery campaigning infantilises those who choose that path. Bodily autonomy matters: people get to choose what they do with & to their own bodies. They also get to own the consequences. So long as they get appropriate counselling to enable them to make informed consent, who are we to prevent them from making changes to their own bodies?