imo it is just a societal cultural overshoot whereby such depictions at first shock (some people) and then mainstream is moved slightly so no "shock ads" are required and society becomes more diverse and inclusive.
On those terms it is a well done to Costa situation. Were their coffee not so gopping I might go and have a decaf Americano (leave room). But it is so I won't.
Plus coffee these days at those places is at the very least three quid a pop which is the greater scandal.
Costa Coffee would have had cartoons celebrating the forcible sterilisation of “retarded and promiscuous” poor women in the 1920s, when THAT was all the rage amongst The Woke Liberal Left
The lefties who are convinced they are on the progressive side of history should look at that example, and shudder
Nah. It's like ads for cars. No one is saying a 6-yr old can go out and buy a Nissan Qashqai. Transgenderism is a thing. At the same time, as we saw from GIDS, it is a hugely sensitive and difficult area that so far society hasn't handled particularly well.
As you note, there are severe mental health implications even if someone is absolutely sure they are the wrong gender because that is "abnormal" where not wanting to switch genders is normal.
So with all the provisos that people with gender dysphoria should get the right support and help then there is no issue with an advert portraying someone who has made that decision.
Because you can't, surely, deny that there is a significant number of people who are genuinely gender dysphoric and those people have a right to live in society in a normal way and be accepted as such.
I absolutely deny that the present number of boys and girls suddenly questioning their gender/sex reflects an actual surge of real trans people - nor is it a revelation that 28% of kids have been trans all the time and we just didn’t realise
For an unfortunate few, gender dysphoria is a real issue. I have a trans female friend - who I’ve always supported - who has had the surgery and is now a somewhat happier person - but you know what? She condemns the present activism and condemns the way it is being pushed on society
In my opinion what we are seeing is a cruel fashion. Unhappy boys and girls - mainly girls - are being told their unhappiness is because they were “born in the wrong body” whereas in fact they are probably on the spectrum; have social anxiety issues; are gay and can’t face it etc yet they are being led towards dangerous drugs and irreversible surgery. It is monstrous
And also look at the (much bemoaned) ads for everything from paint stripper to bathroom tiles. Every family is inevitably mixed race. Are there really that many such mixed race families in the UK? Unlikely, but via advertising such couples are being "normalised" so that for example someone doesn't come up to you (as happened to a white friend of mine) in a pub in Canning Town and hit you with a hammer because your wife is black.
Also if regret and negative impact are the real reasons for not having things in advertising - more people regret their children (12%) and more people get a divorce (42%) than regret gender affirming care (1% - 5%) - then every advert should feature transpeople who have transitioned only...
If the issue is just a general distaste for people who are trans, on the other hand, then that would explain the immediate repulsion and disgust from some.
imo it is just a societal cultural overshoot whereby such depictions at first shock (some people) and then mainstream is moved slightly so no "shock ads" are required and society becomes more diverse and inclusive.
On those terms it is a well done to Costa situation. Were their coffee not so gopping I might go and have a decaf Americano (leave room). But it is so I won't.
Plus coffee these days at those places is at the very least three quid a pop which is the greater scandal.
The three quid is paying for the staff, the building, utilities. The coffee is kinda an extra.
It does seem to have improved a tiny bit in the last few years. Still, making actually good coffee is perfectly possible and really not that expensive (the main input cost in a latte or flat white is the milk).
I don’t know why Costa continue to make substandard stuff. Just needs the beans to have been roasted very recently, ideally that day. Which for a large chain with its own manufacturing facilities or nearby suppliers should be no more difficult than having freshly baked pastries every day.
We get to comply with "rules imposed by Brussels" with no say in their formulation.
AWESOME !!!
That Tweeter is arguing for even more rules to be imposed by Brussels, with no say in their formation.
Yes, well, that's the price for self-exclusion. Of course we can now require, say, that brake pedals and clutches are switched round, or that red now signals "safe" and green signals "danger". but why would we? Most manufacturers want to go with the flow of wherever their main market is, and ideally would prefer that the whole world had the same rules. Standardisation is much more important to them than tweaking the regulations just because we can.
And also look at the (much bemoaned) ads for everything from paint stripper to bathroom tiles. Every family is inevitably mixed race. Are there really that many such mixed race families in the UK? Unlikely, but via advertising such couples are being "normalised" so that for example someone doesn't come up to you (as happened to a white friend of mine) in a pub in Canning Town and hit you with a hammer because your wife is black.
"Inevitably" seems too strong - definitely an exaggeration.
But FWIW Mrs C and I have two such couples within our close friends. Known to us from school and work respectively, rather than family, BTW. Edit: so not my impression that they are that scarce.
That’s good news. Well done to the crews of these ships for taking the risk, and let’s hope that they successfully get out with their cargoes.
Good work from the Romanian and Turkish navies, and various NATO air forces involved as well.
Did they risk being uninsured? That was really the key to this.
Ah, goood question. Can’t say I know too much about marine insurance, but someone (apart from the crews themselves) must have agreed to take the risk that the Russian threats were not a bluff.
Perhaps the scale of the military support operation was agreed in advance, as a test of a process they intend to repeat through the summer?
Note that it was also to a small Danube port AIUI, and one that cannot export a lot of grain (esp. if Russia keeps on trying to blat the loading facilities).
And that latter point is something anyone even vaguely pro-Russian or Russia-sympathetic has to answer: how is Russia trying to stop grain exports, threaten shipping, and damage facilities and stored grain, make them anything other than vile sh*ts?
Yes, was to the small port of Izmail on the Danube. About 100nm from Odesa, which is a much bigger facility on the Black Sea, but which has been under fire from the enemy in recent weeks.
And also look at the (much bemoaned) ads for everything from paint stripper to bathroom tiles. Every family is inevitably mixed race. Are there really that many such mixed race families in the UK? Unlikely, but via advertising such couples are being "normalised" so that for example someone doesn't come up to you (as happened to a white friend of mine) in a pub in Canning Town and hit you with a hammer because your wife is black.
This particular aspect of modern life makes perfect sense to me.
The point of advertising is to promote your product to the widest possible audience from the widest possible demographic within the income ranges you are wanting to attract.
As such having a mixed race family in your advert makes perfect sense. I have seen those bemoaning this as 'unrepresentative' or even 'woke' because they are looking at it in terms of a family unit rather than individuals. But it is far more basic than that. It is just good business, ensuring maximum exposure to your target audience. I really don't see what there is to moan about (not that you are the one moaning of course)
imo it is just a societal cultural overshoot whereby such depictions at first shock (some people) and then mainstream is moved slightly so no "shock ads" are required and society becomes more diverse and inclusive.
On those terms it is a well done to Costa situation. Were their coffee not so gopping I might go and have a decaf Americano (leave room). But it is so I won't.
Plus coffee these days at those places is at the very least three quid a pop which is the greater scandal.
Costa Coffee would have had cartoons celebrating the forcible sterilisation of “retarded and promiscuous” poor women in the 1920s, when THAT was all the rage amongst The Woke Liberal Left
The lefties who are convinced they are on the progressive side of history should look at that example, and shudder
Nah. It's like ads for cars. No one is saying a 6-yr old can go out and buy a Nissan Qashqai. Transgenderism is a thing. At the same time, as we saw from GIDS, it is a hugely sensitive and difficult area that so far society hasn't handled particularly well.
As you note, there are severe mental health implications even if someone is absolutely sure they are the wrong gender because that is "abnormal" where not wanting to switch genders is normal.
So with all the provisos that people with gender dysphoria should get the right support and help then there is no issue with an advert portraying someone who has made that decision.
Because you can't, surely, deny that there is a significant number of people who are genuinely gender dysphoric and those people have a right to live in society in a normal way and be accepted as such.
I absolutely deny that the present number of boys and girls suddenly questioning their gender/sex reflects an actual surge of real trans people - nor is it a revelation that 28% of kids have been trans all the time and we just didn’t realise
For an unfortunate few, gender dysphoria is a real issue. I have a trans female friend - who I’ve always supported - who has had the surgery and is now a somewhat happier person - but you know what? She condemns the present activism and condemns the way it is being pushed on society
In my opinion what we are seeing is a cruel fashion. Unhappy boys and girls - mainly girls - are being told their unhappiness is because they were “born in the wrong body” whereas in fact they are probably on the spectrum; have social anxiety issues; are gay and can’t face it etc yet they are being led towards dangerous drugs and irreversible surgery. It is monstrous
I’ve seen this with my own eyes
Since the 2000s, the number of people self identifying as gay, lesbian or bisexual (especially bisexual), has increased year after year, with younger people more likely to identify as the above than other age groups. Do you think that being LGB is also a contagion, or do you think that the end of things like section 28, the general social attitudes to LGB people improving and the normalisation of same sex relationships have made more people willing to come out or self ID that way?
The same is obviously the case for transpeople, like the rest of the community before. If the "transgender tipping point" was 2015, we would expect a rise in the population identifying as trans as it became more socially acceptable. That 1% of young people now identify as trans (I don't know where the 28% figure comes from) shouldn't be surprising with these other trends.
The other argument typically used is that transwomen were typically considered more likely than transmen (mtf transition being more common than ftm transition). I again would argue that the liberation of women and those assigned female at birth has led to those perceived as women to have more access and ability to transition than in previous times. Historically, those perceived as men were taken more seriously by doctors and almost all doctors would have been cismen (and whilst this is still likely the case, it has reduced). Transmisogyny often still infantilises transmen, as misogyny infantilises ciswomen, and monsters transwomen, as misogyny monsters any ciswoman not deemed feminine enough for society.
imo it is just a societal cultural overshoot whereby such depictions at first shock (some people) and then mainstream is moved slightly so no "shock ads" are required and society becomes more diverse and inclusive.
On those terms it is a well done to Costa situation. Were their coffee not so gopping I might go and have a decaf Americano (leave room). But it is so I won't.
Plus coffee these days at those places is at the very least three quid a pop which is the greater scandal.
Costa Coffee would have had cartoons celebrating the forcible sterilisation of “retarded and promiscuous” poor women in the 1920s, when THAT was all the rage amongst The Woke Liberal Left
The lefties who are convinced they are on the progressive side of history should look at that example, and shudder
Nah. It's like ads for cars. No one is saying a 6-yr old can go out and buy a Nissan Qashqai. Transgenderism is a thing. At the same time, as we saw from GIDS, it is a hugely sensitive and difficult area that so far society hasn't handled particularly well.
As you note, there are severe mental health implications even if someone is absolutely sure they are the wrong gender because that is "abnormal" where not wanting to switch genders is normal.
So with all the provisos that people with gender dysphoria should get the right support and help then there is no issue with an advert portraying someone who has made that decision.
Because you can't, surely, deny that there is a significant number of people who are genuinely gender dysphoric and those people have a right to live in society in a normal way and be accepted as such.
I absolutely deny that the present number of boys and girls suddenly questioning their gender/sex reflects an actual surge of real trans people - nor is it a revelation that 28% of kids have been trans all the time and we just didn’t realise
For an unfortunate few, gender dysphoria is a real issue. I have a trans female friend - who I’ve always supported - who has had the surgery and is now a somewhat happier person - but you know what? She condemns the present activism and condemns the way it is being pushed on society
In my opinion what we are seeing is a cruel fashion. Unhappy boys and girls - mainly girls - are being told their unhappiness is because they were “born in the wrong body” whereas in fact they are probably on the spectrum; have social anxiety issues; are gay and can’t face it etc yet they are being led towards dangerous drugs and irreversible surgery. It is monstrous
I’ve seen this with my own eyes
Since the 2000s, the number of people self identifying as gay, lesbian or bisexual (especially bisexual), has increased year after year, with younger people more likely to identify as the above than other age groups. Do you think that being LGB is also a contagion, or do you think that the end of things like section 28, the general social attitudes to LGB people improving and the normalisation of same sex relationships have made more people willing to come out or self ID that way?
The same is obviously the case for transpeople, like the rest of the community before. If the "transgender tipping point" was 2015, we would expect a rise in the population identifying as trans as it became more socially acceptable. That 1% of young people now identify as trans (I don't know where the 28% figure comes from) shouldn't be surprising with these other trends.
The other argument typically used is that transwomen were typically considered more likely than transmen (mtf transition being more common than ftm transition). I again would argue that the liberation of women and those assigned female at birth has led to those perceived as women to have more access and ability to transition than in previous times. Historically, those perceived as men were taken more seriously by doctors and almost all doctors would have been cismen (and whilst this is still likely the case, it has reduced). Transmisogyny often still infantilises transmen, as misogyny infantilises ciswomen, and monsters transwomen, as misogyny monsters any ciswoman not deemed feminine enough for society.
In a decade or two we will look back in shame and wonder that we allowed people like you to impose your bizarre and damaging beliefs on society. It will be exactly like eugenics
imo it is just a societal cultural overshoot whereby such depictions at first shock (some people) and then mainstream is moved slightly so no "shock ads" are required and society becomes more diverse and inclusive.
On those terms it is a well done to Costa situation. Were their coffee not so gopping I might go and have a decaf Americano (leave room). But it is so I won't.
Plus coffee these days at those places is at the very least three quid a pop which is the greater scandal.
Costa Coffee would have had cartoons celebrating the forcible sterilisation of “retarded and promiscuous” poor women in the 1920s, when THAT was all the rage amongst The Woke Liberal Left
The lefties who are convinced they are on the progressive side of history should look at that example, and shudder
Nah. It's like ads for cars. No one is saying a 6-yr old can go out and buy a Nissan Qashqai. Transgenderism is a thing. At the same time, as we saw from GIDS, it is a hugely sensitive and difficult area that so far society hasn't handled particularly well.
As you note, there are severe mental health implications even if someone is absolutely sure they are the wrong gender because that is "abnormal" where not wanting to switch genders is normal.
So with all the provisos that people with gender dysphoria should get the right support and help then there is no issue with an advert portraying someone who has made that decision.
Because you can't, surely, deny that there is a significant number of people who are genuinely gender dysphoric and those people have a right to live in society in a normal way and be accepted as such.
I absolutely deny that the present number of boys and girls suddenly questioning their gender/sex reflects an actual surge of real trans people - nor is it a revelation that 28% of kids have been trans all the time and we just didn’t realise
For an unfortunate few, gender dysphoria is a real issue. I have a trans female friend - who I’ve always supported - who has had the surgery and is now a somewhat happier person - but you know what? She condemns the present activism and condemns the way it is being pushed on society
In my opinion what we are seeing is a cruel fashion. Unhappy boys and girls - mainly girls - are being told their unhappiness is because they were “born in the wrong body” whereas in fact they are probably on the spectrum; have social anxiety issues; are gay and can’t face it etc yet they are being led towards dangerous drugs and irreversible surgery. It is monstrous
I’ve seen this with my own eyes
Since the 2000s, the number of people self identifying as gay, lesbian or bisexual (especially bisexual), has increased year after year, with younger people more likely to identify as the above than other age groups. Do you think that being LGB is also a contagion, or do you think that the end of things like section 28, the general social attitudes to LGB people improving and the normalisation of same sex relationships have made more people willing to come out or self ID that way?
The same is obviously the case for transpeople, like the rest of the community before. If the "transgender tipping point" was 2015, we would expect a rise in the population identifying as trans as it became more socially acceptable. That 1% of young people now identify as trans (I don't know where the 28% figure comes from) shouldn't be surprising with these other trends.
The other argument typically used is that transwomen were typically considered more likely than transmen (mtf transition being more common than ftm transition). I again would argue that the liberation of women and those assigned female at birth has led to those perceived as women to have more access and ability to transition than in previous times. Historically, those perceived as men were taken more seriously by doctors and almost all doctors would have been cismen (and whilst this is still likely the case, it has reduced). Transmisogyny often still infantilises transmen, as misogyny infantilises ciswomen, and monsters transwomen, as misogyny monsters any ciswoman not deemed feminine enough for society.
In a decade or two we will look back in shame and wonder that we allowed people like you to impose your bizarre and damaging beliefs on society. It will be exactly like eugenics
So you have no answer to why the increase in people IDing as LGB since the early 2000s is not about a social contagion, no citation for your 28% figure and no reason outside of a social contagion theory that has been debunked for why the number of people identifying as trans has increased since 2015?
You’re never going to stop the @Dura_Ace of this world, who will build themselves something dodgy
LOL. I am quite into RC cars (the Ukrainians like them for some reason) so I have loads of dodgy Chinese Li-Pos but even I'm not reckless enough to keep them in the house.
A normal e-bike setup is 36V/12S. That's a lot of energy if the cheapest electronics the children of Shenzen can make goes up in smoke in an uncontrolled discharge.
Yes, one of THOSE Bathorys - for anyone acquainted with the Gothic horrors of east European history
Didn't Elizabeth Bathory bathe in the blood of virgins? Or is that Hammer Horror?
The “Blood Countess”. Erzsabet Bathory
I once spent ten days touring Eastern Europe chasing up her story for the Gazette. This is where she died, starving and raving, walled up in a cell in her own castle in Cachtice, Slovakia
Remarkably, most of the legend appears to be true. She really did mutilate, torture and murder dozens of servant girls. And many other depravities. Modern day wokeists probably see her as an exciting pioneer of “routine top surgery”
imo it is just a societal cultural overshoot whereby such depictions at first shock (some people) and then mainstream is moved slightly so no "shock ads" are required and society becomes more diverse and inclusive.
On those terms it is a well done to Costa situation. Were their coffee not so gopping I might go and have a decaf Americano (leave room). But it is so I won't.
Plus coffee these days at those places is at the very least three quid a pop which is the greater scandal.
Costa Coffee would have had cartoons celebrating the forcible sterilisation of “retarded and promiscuous” poor women in the 1920s, when THAT was all the rage amongst The Woke Liberal Left
The lefties who are convinced they are on the progressive side of history should look at that example, and shudder
Nah. It's like ads for cars. No one is saying a 6-yr old can go out and buy a Nissan Qashqai. Transgenderism is a thing. At the same time, as we saw from GIDS, it is a hugely sensitive and difficult area that so far society hasn't handled particularly well.
As you note, there are severe mental health implications even if someone is absolutely sure they are the wrong gender because that is "abnormal" where not wanting to switch genders is normal.
So with all the provisos that people with gender dysphoria should get the right support and help then there is no issue with an advert portraying someone who has made that decision.
Because you can't, surely, deny that there is a significant number of people who are genuinely gender dysphoric and those people have a right to live in society in a normal way and be accepted as such.
I absolutely deny that the present number of boys and girls suddenly questioning their gender/sex reflects an actual surge of real trans people - nor is it a revelation that 28% of kids have been trans all the time and we just didn’t realise
For an unfortunate few, gender dysphoria is a real issue. I have a trans female friend - who I’ve always supported - who has had the surgery and is now a somewhat happier person - but you know what? She condemns the present activism and condemns the way it is being pushed on society
In my opinion what we are seeing is a cruel fashion. Unhappy boys and girls - mainly girls - are being told their unhappiness is because they were “born in the wrong body” whereas in fact they are probably on the spectrum; have social anxiety issues; are gay and can’t face it etc yet they are being led towards dangerous drugs and irreversible surgery. It is monstrous
I’ve seen this with my own eyes
Having seen very distressing teenage mental health issues played out up close in my own family, I could not agree more. A lot of kids are struggling with very complicated emotions, feelings and thoughts and are trying to work out why they have them and how to get through. It's horrible for them. But it has to be seen in that mental health context first and foremost. There will be a very small minority that do have genuine gender issues, but a lot more may convince themselves that they have when they haven't. They need to be protected from taking irrevocable decisions - and if that means those who do genuinely require surgery etc having to wait a little while longer, then that is how it has to be, unfortunately.
And also look at the (much bemoaned) ads for everything from paint stripper to bathroom tiles. Every family is inevitably mixed race. Are there really that many such mixed race families in the UK? Unlikely, but via advertising such couples are being "normalised" so that for example someone doesn't come up to you (as happened to a white friend of mine) in a pub in Canning Town and hit you with a hammer because your wife is black.
It’s actually quite high in London, compared to many other countries.
To the point that the Guardian ran an article, worrying that black people were getting rich, moving out to the country and er… “losing their cultural identity”.
About 2% don't have a current account, mostly because they don't want one, but a quarter of the unbanked do. My view is the problem should be a relatively easy to fix if big banks improve their provision of basic bank accounts, which they are obliged to provide.
My understanding is that banks are obliged to provide BBAs - but not to everyone who rolls up and asks for one. There's a difference, no? Or is that wrong?
And unlike water, they are not monopolies, so cannot be forced to take customers, at least at present.
AFAIK, they can only refuse you a basic account for limited specific reasons, eg
- you can’t provide proof of ID or address - you could get another account, for example a standard current account - you refuse a credit check – although you don’t have to pass one - they think you’ll use the account unlawfully or fraudulently - you’re threatening, abusive or violent towards staff.
The big problem appears to be a lack of awareness of basic bank accounts. Banks don't like them, so don't promote them. Some people find it hard to provide the required proofs of IDs.
Natwest reject half the applications. Doesn't sound very limited to me.
Is that rejection rate for basic bank accounts? If so they need to sort it out. I suspect they would fall foul of the new Consumer Duty regulation, which requires financial services providers to recommend alternatives even when they decline business.
You’re never going to stop the @Dura_Ace of this world, who will build themselves something dodgy
LOL. I am quite into RC cars (the Ukrainians like them for some reason) so I have loads of dodgy Chinese Li-Pos but even I'm not reckless enough to keep them in the house.
A normal e-bike setup is 36V/12S. That's a lot of energy if the cheapest electronics the children of Shenzen can make goes up in smoke in an uncontrolled discharge.
Incredibly, despite Trump's cash crunch, his Save America leadership PAC shelled out another $108,000 in the first six months of the year for Melania Trump's stylist, Herve Pierre Braillard, while insisting to the FEC that it's for 'strategy consulting'. https://twitter.com/rpyers/status/1686158398608310272
imo it is just a societal cultural overshoot whereby such depictions at first shock (some people) and then mainstream is moved slightly so no "shock ads" are required and society becomes more diverse and inclusive.
On those terms it is a well done to Costa situation. Were their coffee not so gopping I might go and have a decaf Americano (leave room). But it is so I won't.
Plus coffee these days at those places is at the very least three quid a pop which is the greater scandal.
Costa Coffee would have had cartoons celebrating the forcible sterilisation of “retarded and promiscuous” poor women in the 1920s, when THAT was all the rage amongst The Woke Liberal Left
The lefties who are convinced they are on the progressive side of history should look at that example, and shudder
Nah. It's like ads for cars. No one is saying a 6-yr old can go out and buy a Nissan Qashqai. Transgenderism is a thing. At the same time, as we saw from GIDS, it is a hugely sensitive and difficult area that so far society hasn't handled particularly well.
As you note, there are severe mental health implications even if someone is absolutely sure they are the wrong gender because that is "abnormal" where not wanting to switch genders is normal.
So with all the provisos that people with gender dysphoria should get the right support and help then there is no issue with an advert portraying someone who has made that decision.
Because you can't, surely, deny that there is a significant number of people who are genuinely gender dysphoric and those people have a right to live in society in a normal way and be accepted as such.
I absolutely deny that the present number of boys and girls suddenly questioning their gender/sex reflects an actual surge of real trans people - nor is it a revelation that 28% of kids have been trans all the time and we just didn’t realise
For an unfortunate few, gender dysphoria is a real issue. I have a trans female friend - who I’ve always supported - who has had the surgery and is now a somewhat happier person - but you know what? She condemns the present activism and condemns the way it is being pushed on society
In my opinion what we are seeing is a cruel fashion. Unhappy boys and girls - mainly girls - are being told their unhappiness is because they were “born in the wrong body” whereas in fact they are probably on the spectrum; have social anxiety issues; are gay and can’t face it etc yet they are being led towards dangerous drugs and irreversible surgery. It is monstrous
I’ve seen this with my own eyes
Since the 2000s, the number of people self identifying as gay, lesbian or bisexual (especially bisexual), has increased year after year, with younger people more likely to identify as the above than other age groups. Do you think that being LGB is also a contagion, or do you think that the end of things like section 28, the general social attitudes to LGB people improving and the normalisation of same sex relationships have made more people willing to come out or self ID that way?
The same is obviously the case for transpeople, like the rest of the community before. If the "transgender tipping point" was 2015, we would expect a rise in the population identifying as trans as it became more socially acceptable. That 1% of young people now identify as trans (I don't know where the 28% figure comes from) shouldn't be surprising with these other trends.
The other argument typically used is that transwomen were typically considered more likely than transmen (mtf transition being more common than ftm transition). I again would argue that the liberation of women and those assigned female at birth has led to those perceived as women to have more access and ability to transition than in previous times. Historically, those perceived as men were taken more seriously by doctors and almost all doctors would have been cismen (and whilst this is still likely the case, it has reduced). Transmisogyny often still infantilises transmen, as misogyny infantilises ciswomen, and monsters transwomen, as misogyny monsters any ciswoman not deemed feminine enough for society.
In a decade or two we will look back in shame and wonder that we allowed people like you to impose your bizarre and damaging beliefs on society. It will be exactly like eugenics
So you have no answer to why the increase in people IDing as LGB since the early 2000s is not about a social contagion, no citation for your 28% figure and no reason outside of a social contagion theory that has been debunked for why the number of people identifying as trans has increased since 2015?
We fundamentally disagree. I’ve made my feelings quite clear. I don’t think there is any room for argument, we are so far apart
I’m happy to drop the debate as a lot of PBers find it either boring or bewildering
On topic, Boycott Costa. They've picked a side and need to be punished for it.
That's the only way Woke Capitalism and these Culture Wars end.
I won't be buying anything there for the foreseeable.
CR: Oh no, not the trans topic again *eye roll emoji*
Also CR: Boycott Costa for showing a trans person in an advert.
What is "Woke Capitalism"? What are the "Culture Wars"? Do you also believe in "Cultural Marxism" or the like?
The bizarre thing is that I would never have picked up on the image being of a trans person without the outrage on Twitter X.
Nor would I have been likely to have seen it without the outraged highlighting it.
There are far more important issues in choosing a coffee shop: taste, location, price and general ethics. This doesn't feature for me one way or the other.
imo it is just a societal cultural overshoot whereby such depictions at first shock (some people) and then mainstream is moved slightly so no "shock ads" are required and society becomes more diverse and inclusive.
On those terms it is a well done to Costa situation. Were their coffee not so gopping I might go and have a decaf Americano (leave room). But it is so I won't.
Plus coffee these days at those places is at the very least three quid a pop which is the greater scandal.
Costa Coffee would have had cartoons celebrating the forcible sterilisation of “retarded and promiscuous” poor women in the 1920s, when THAT was all the rage amongst The Woke Liberal Left
The lefties who are convinced they are on the progressive side of history should look at that example, and shudder
Comparing a medical procedure that was done to people against their will to a medical procedure that people often have to fight for is very lazy. These are not the same things.
It's not lazy. Leon must have put in a modicum of effort to be quite so offensively stupid.
On topic, Boycott Costa. They've picked a side and need to be punished for it.
That's the only way Woke Capitalism and these Culture Wars end.
I won't be buying anything there for the foreseeable.
Do you realise quite how pathetic you sound? How the mere thought of 'inclusion' of a marginalised group causes you to screech and holler like a petulant child?
I fear you might find it quite hard to find places to buy stuff in future ...
imo it is just a societal cultural overshoot whereby such depictions at first shock (some people) and then mainstream is moved slightly so no "shock ads" are required and society becomes more diverse and inclusive.
On those terms it is a well done to Costa situation. Were their coffee not so gopping I might go and have a decaf Americano (leave room). But it is so I won't.
Plus coffee these days at those places is at the very least three quid a pop which is the greater scandal.
Costa Coffee would have had cartoons celebrating the forcible sterilisation of “retarded and promiscuous” poor women in the 1920s, when THAT was all the rage amongst The Woke Liberal Left
The lefties who are convinced they are on the progressive side of history should look at that example, and shudder
Nah. It's like ads for cars. No one is saying a 6-yr old can go out and buy a Nissan Qashqai. Transgenderism is a thing. At the same time, as we saw from GIDS, it is a hugely sensitive and difficult area that so far society hasn't handled particularly well.
As you note, there are severe mental health implications even if someone is absolutely sure they are the wrong gender because that is "abnormal" where not wanting to switch genders is normal.
So with all the provisos that people with gender dysphoria should get the right support and help then there is no issue with an advert portraying someone who has made that decision.
Because you can't, surely, deny that there is a significant number of people who are genuinely gender dysphoric and those people have a right to live in society in a normal way and be accepted as such.
I absolutely deny that the present number of boys and girls suddenly questioning their gender/sex reflects an actual surge of real trans people - nor is it a revelation that 28% of kids have been trans all the time and we just didn’t realise
For an unfortunate few, gender dysphoria is a real issue. I have a trans female friend - who I’ve always supported - who has had the surgery and is now a somewhat happier person - but you know what? She condemns the present activism and condemns the way it is being pushed on society
In my opinion what we are seeing is a cruel fashion. Unhappy boys and girls - mainly girls - are being told their unhappiness is because they were “born in the wrong body” whereas in fact they are probably on the spectrum; have social anxiety issues; are gay and can’t face it etc yet they are being led towards dangerous drugs and irreversible surgery. It is monstrous
I’ve seen this with my own eyes
So in the very same post you are saying you have a genuinely gender dysphoric friend while most others out there are victims of the nasty GIDS people. There is no doubt that GIDS (et al) did a tremendous amount of harm; nor can it be denied that gender dysphoria can be a "go to" (self-)diagnosis of the moment; but equally there is little doubt that there are genuinely gender dysphoric people out there. As you can personally attest, and as Costa might be celebrating/seeking to normalise with its ad.
I am beginning to think Rishi will be more upset at losing the next election than people think. I mean, the family is rich enough he never needed politics anyway, and it also means he won't derive as much benefit from being vastly overpaid on the speech circuit like Boris and May, or even Truss getting some gigs. Not that they all did it for the money, of course not, but their need for a living even though mostly well off is on another level to Rishi.
I disagree. What could he do in business that his father in law hasn’t done better? He became PM on his own.
It’s the one sphere where he has achieved something himself
He was beaten by a woman who was beaten by a lettuce.
If Truss hadn't imploded he would be no more successful than Michael Portillo
But Truss did implode and Sunak is Prime Minister.
imo it is just a societal cultural overshoot whereby such depictions at first shock (some people) and then mainstream is moved slightly so no "shock ads" are required and society becomes more diverse and inclusive.
On those terms it is a well done to Costa situation. Were their coffee not so gopping I might go and have a decaf Americano (leave room). But it is so I won't.
Plus coffee these days at those places is at the very least three quid a pop which is the greater scandal.
Costa Coffee would have had cartoons celebrating the forcible sterilisation of “retarded and promiscuous” poor women in the 1920s, when THAT was all the rage amongst The Woke Liberal Left
The lefties who are convinced they are on the progressive side of history should look at that example, and shudder
Nah. It's like ads for cars. No one is saying a 6-yr old can go out and buy a Nissan Qashqai. Transgenderism is a thing. At the same time, as we saw from GIDS, it is a hugely sensitive and difficult area that so far society hasn't handled particularly well.
As you note, there are severe mental health implications even if someone is absolutely sure they are the wrong gender because that is "abnormal" where not wanting to switch genders is normal.
So with all the provisos that people with gender dysphoria should get the right support and help then there is no issue with an advert portraying someone who has made that decision.
Because you can't, surely, deny that there is a significant number of people who are genuinely gender dysphoric and those people have a right to live in society in a normal way and be accepted as such.
I absolutely deny that the present number of boys and girls suddenly questioning their gender/sex reflects an actual surge of real trans people - nor is it a revelation that 28% of kids have been trans all the time and we just didn’t realise
For an unfortunate few, gender dysphoria is a real issue. I have a trans female friend - who I’ve always supported - who has had the surgery and is now a somewhat happier person - but you know what? She condemns the present activism and condemns the way it is being pushed on society
In my opinion what we are seeing is a cruel fashion. Unhappy boys and girls - mainly girls - are being told their unhappiness is because they were “born in the wrong body” whereas in fact they are probably on the spectrum; have social anxiety issues; are gay and can’t face it etc yet they are being led towards dangerous drugs and irreversible surgery. It is monstrous
I’ve seen this with my own eyes
Since the 2000s, the number of people self identifying as gay, lesbian or bisexual (especially bisexual), has increased year after year, with younger people more likely to identify as the above than other age groups. Do you think that being LGB is also a contagion, or do you think that the end of things like section 28, the general social attitudes to LGB people improving and the normalisation of same sex relationships have made more people willing to come out or self ID that way?
The same is obviously the case for transpeople, like the rest of the community before. If the "transgender tipping point" was 2015, we would expect a rise in the population identifying as trans as it became more socially acceptable. That 1% of young people now identify as trans (I don't know where the 28% figure comes from) shouldn't be surprising with these other trends.
The other argument typically used is that transwomen were typically considered more likely than transmen (mtf transition being more common than ftm transition). I again would argue that the liberation of women and those assigned female at birth has led to those perceived as women to have more access and ability to transition than in previous times. Historically, those perceived as men were taken more seriously by doctors and almost all doctors would have been cismen (and whilst this is still likely the case, it has reduced). Transmisogyny often still infantilises transmen, as misogyny infantilises ciswomen, and monsters transwomen, as misogyny monsters any ciswoman not deemed feminine enough for society.
In a decade or two we will look back in shame and wonder that we allowed people like you to impose your bizarre and damaging beliefs on society. It will be exactly like eugenics
So you have no answer to why the increase in people IDing as LGB since the early 2000s is not about a social contagion, no citation for your 28% figure and no reason outside of a social contagion theory that has been debunked for why the number of people identifying as trans has increased since 2015?
We fundamentally disagree. I’ve made my feelings quite clear. I don’t think there is any room for argument, we are so far apart
I’m happy to drop the debate as a lot of PBers find it either boring or bewildering
And I have a castle to explore….
I love that it is supposedly "TRAs" who are "no debate" and "resort to ad homs" and here I am, asking you for the reasons you believe things, having given you the reason I believe things, and you just say "nah, I don't have to, you're just as bad as a eugenicist".
I would also prefer not to have to come onto this political betting forum and debate and defend the existence of transpeople. But when people like yourself go out of their way to monster them for existing, I feel I have to. For my trans friends and family, I can't just let people spew whatever hatred they want unchallenged.
I am beginning to think Rishi will be more upset at losing the next election than people think. I mean, the family is rich enough he never needed politics anyway, and it also means he won't derive as much benefit from being vastly overpaid on the speech circuit like Boris and May, or even Truss getting some gigs. Not that they all did it for the money, of course not, but their need for a living even though mostly well off is on another level to Rishi.
I disagree. What could he do in business that his father in law hasn’t done better? He became PM on his own.
It’s the one sphere where he has achieved something himself
He was beaten by a woman who was beaten by a lettuce.
If Truss hadn't imploded he would be no more successful than Michael Portillo
But Truss did implode and Sunak is Prime Minister.
But he didn't "become PM on his own". He lucked into it.
On topic, Boycott Costa. They've picked a side and need to be punished for it.
That's the only way Woke Capitalism and these Culture Wars end.
I won't be buying anything there for the foreseeable.
Do you realise quite how pathetic you sound? How the mere thought of 'inclusion' of a marginalised group causes you to screech and holler like a petulant child?
I fear you might find it quite hard to find places to buy stuff in future ...
You’re never going to stop the @Dura_Ace of this world, who will build themselves something dodgy
LOL. I am quite into RC cars (the Ukrainians like them for some reason) so I have loads of dodgy Chinese Li-Pos but even I'm not reckless enough to keep them in the house.
A normal e-bike setup is 36V/12S. That's a lot of energy if the cheapest electronics the children of Shenzen can make goes up in smoke in an uncontrolled discharge.
Three Just Stop Oil activists who ran onto the pitch during the second Ashes Test appear to have denied disrupting the cricket match by claiming there is no evidence the game was lawful.
On topic, Boycott Costa. They've picked a side and need to be punished for it.
That's the only way Woke Capitalism and these Culture Wars end.
I won't be buying anything there for the foreseeable.
CR: Oh no, not the trans topic again *eye roll emoji*
Also CR: Boycott Costa for showing a trans person in an advert.
What is "Woke Capitalism"? What are the "Culture Wars"? Do you also believe in "Cultural Marxism" or the like?
The bizarre thing is that I would never have picked up on the image being of a trans person without the outrage on Twitter X.
Nor would I have been likely to have seen it without the outraged highlighting it.
There are far more important issues in choosing a coffee shop: taste, location, price and general ethics. This doesn't feature for me one way or the other.
Yes, there are other explanations: a female, or a male as JJ says, with a mastectomy for cancer, without any trans element. IIRC there is something of a campaign to let the fomrer go topless if they want, in contexts where other females do. So I thought it might be something to do with that.
You’re never going to stop the @Dura_Ace of this world, who will build themselves something dodgy
LOL. I am quite into RC cars (the Ukrainians like them for some reason) so I have loads of dodgy Chinese Li-Pos but even I'm not reckless enough to keep them in the house.
A normal e-bike setup is 36V/12S. That's a lot of energy if the cheapest electronics the children of Shenzen can make goes up in smoke in an uncontrolled discharge.
imo it is just a societal cultural overshoot whereby such depictions at first shock (some people) and then mainstream is moved slightly so no "shock ads" are required and society becomes more diverse and inclusive.
On those terms it is a well done to Costa situation. Were their coffee not so gopping I might go and have a decaf Americano (leave room). But it is so I won't.
Plus coffee these days at those places is at the very least three quid a pop which is the greater scandal.
Costa Coffee would have had cartoons celebrating the forcible sterilisation of “retarded and promiscuous” poor women in the 1920s, when THAT was all the rage amongst The Woke Liberal Left
The lefties who are convinced they are on the progressive side of history should look at that example, and shudder
Nah. It's like ads for cars. No one is saying a 6-yr old can go out and buy a Nissan Qashqai. Transgenderism is a thing. At the same time, as we saw from GIDS, it is a hugely sensitive and difficult area that so far society hasn't handled particularly well.
As you note, there are severe mental health implications even if someone is absolutely sure they are the wrong gender because that is "abnormal" where not wanting to switch genders is normal.
So with all the provisos that people with gender dysphoria should get the right support and help then there is no issue with an advert portraying someone who has made that decision.
Because you can't, surely, deny that there is a significant number of people who are genuinely gender dysphoric and those people have a right to live in society in a normal way and be accepted as such.
I absolutely deny that the present number of boys and girls suddenly questioning their gender/sex reflects an actual surge of real trans people - nor is it a revelation that 28% of kids have been trans all the time and we just didn’t realise
For an unfortunate few, gender dysphoria is a real issue. I have a trans female friend - who I’ve always supported - who has had the surgery and is now a somewhat happier person - but you know what? She condemns the present activism and condemns the way it is being pushed on society
In my opinion what we are seeing is a cruel fashion. Unhappy boys and girls - mainly girls - are being told their unhappiness is because they were “born in the wrong body” whereas in fact they are probably on the spectrum; have social anxiety issues; are gay and can’t face it etc yet they are being led towards dangerous drugs and irreversible surgery. It is monstrous
I’ve seen this with my own eyes
Having seen very distressing teenage mental health issues played out up close in my own family, I could not agree more. A lot of kids are struggling with very complicated emotions, feelings and thoughts and are trying to work out why they have them and how to get through. It's horrible for them. But it has to be seen in that mental health context first and foremost. There will be a very small minority that do have genuine gender issues, but a lot more may convince themselves that they have when they haven't. They need to be protected from taking irrevocable decisions - and if that means those who do genuinely require surgery etc having to wait a little while longer, then that is how it has to be, unfortunately.
I don't think anyone can argue with that although I have not walked in the shoes of someone who is genuinely gender dysphoric. That is just part of the damage that GIDS did. As I said upthread, even someone genuinely gender dysphoric will be undergoing significant mental health issues and we need the right facilities to handle all this and at the moment in the UK I think we are only just edging towards that state.
imo it is just a societal cultural overshoot whereby such depictions at first shock (some people) and then mainstream is moved slightly so no "shock ads" are required and society becomes more diverse and inclusive.
On those terms it is a well done to Costa situation. Were their coffee not so gopping I might go and have a decaf Americano (leave room). But it is so I won't.
Plus coffee these days at those places is at the very least three quid a pop which is the greater scandal.
Costa Coffee would have had cartoons celebrating the forcible sterilisation of “retarded and promiscuous” poor women in the 1920s, when THAT was all the rage amongst The Woke Liberal Left
The lefties who are convinced they are on the progressive side of history should look at that example, and shudder
Nah. It's like ads for cars. No one is saying a 6-yr old can go out and buy a Nissan Qashqai. Transgenderism is a thing. At the same time, as we saw from GIDS, it is a hugely sensitive and difficult area that so far society hasn't handled particularly well.
As you note, there are severe mental health implications even if someone is absolutely sure they are the wrong gender because that is "abnormal" where not wanting to switch genders is normal.
So with all the provisos that people with gender dysphoria should get the right support and help then there is no issue with an advert portraying someone who has made that decision.
Because you can't, surely, deny that there is a significant number of people who are genuinely gender dysphoric and those people have a right to live in society in a normal way and be accepted as such.
I absolutely deny that the present number of boys and girls suddenly questioning their gender/sex reflects an actual surge of real trans people - nor is it a revelation that 28% of kids have been trans all the time and we just didn’t realise
For an unfortunate few, gender dysphoria is a real issue. I have a trans female friend - who I’ve always supported - who has had the surgery and is now a somewhat happier person - but you know what? She condemns the present activism and condemns the way it is being pushed on society
In my opinion what we are seeing is a cruel fashion. Unhappy boys and girls - mainly girls - are being told their unhappiness is because they were “born in the wrong body” whereas in fact they are probably on the spectrum; have social anxiety issues; are gay and can’t face it etc yet they are being led towards dangerous drugs and irreversible surgery. It is monstrous
I’ve seen this with my own eyes
Since the 2000s, the number of people self identifying as gay, lesbian or bisexual (especially bisexual), has increased year after year, with younger people more likely to identify as the above than other age groups. Do you think that being LGB is also a contagion, or do you think that the end of things like section 28, the general social attitudes to LGB people improving and the normalisation of same sex relationships have made more people willing to come out or self ID that way?
The same is obviously the case for transpeople, like the rest of the community before. If the "transgender tipping point" was 2015, we would expect a rise in the population identifying as trans as it became more socially acceptable. That 1% of young people now identify as trans (I don't know where the 28% figure comes from) shouldn't be surprising with these other trends.
The other argument typically used is that transwomen were typically considered more likely than transmen (mtf transition being more common than ftm transition). I again would argue that the liberation of women and those assigned female at birth has led to those perceived as women to have more access and ability to transition than in previous times. Historically, those perceived as men were taken more seriously by doctors and almost all doctors would have been cismen (and whilst this is still likely the case, it has reduced). Transmisogyny often still infantilises transmen, as misogyny infantilises ciswomen, and monsters transwomen, as misogyny monsters any ciswoman not deemed feminine enough for society.
In a decade or two we will look back in shame and wonder that we allowed people like you to impose your bizarre and damaging beliefs on society. It will be exactly like eugenics
So you have no answer to why the increase in people IDing as LGB since the early 2000s is not about a social contagion, no citation for your 28% figure and no reason outside of a social contagion theory that has been debunked for why the number of people identifying as trans has increased since 2015?
We fundamentally disagree. I’ve made my feelings quite clear. I don’t think there is any room for argument, we are so far apart
I’m happy to drop the debate as a lot of PBers find it either boring or bewildering
And I have a castle to explore….
I love that it is supposedly "TRAs" who are "no debate" and "resort to ad homs" and here I am, asking you for the reasons you believe things, having given you the reason I believe things, and you just say "nah, I don't have to, you're just as bad as a eugenicist".
I would also prefer not to have to come onto this political betting forum and debate and defend the existence of transpeople. But when people like yourself go out of their way to monster them for existing, I feel I have to. For my trans friends and family, I can't just let people spew whatever hatred they want unchallenged.
Alternatively, I’m the one who actually cares about young people and you are pushing a sinister and now pernicious creed
As I said: eugenics in the first half of the 20th century is the best parallel. Furiously approved by bien pensant lefties; also involving mutilation and sterilisation
imo it is just a societal cultural overshoot whereby such depictions at first shock (some people) and then mainstream is moved slightly so no "shock ads" are required and society becomes more diverse and inclusive.
On those terms it is a well done to Costa situation. Were their coffee not so gopping I might go and have a decaf Americano (leave room). But it is so I won't.
Plus coffee these days at those places is at the very least three quid a pop which is the greater scandal.
Costa Coffee would have had cartoons celebrating the forcible sterilisation of “retarded and promiscuous” poor women in the 1920s, when THAT was all the rage amongst The Woke Liberal Left
The lefties who are convinced they are on the progressive side of history should look at that example, and shudder
Nah. It's like ads for cars. No one is saying a 6-yr old can go out and buy a Nissan Qashqai. Transgenderism is a thing. At the same time, as we saw from GIDS, it is a hugely sensitive and difficult area that so far society hasn't handled particularly well.
As you note, there are severe mental health implications even if someone is absolutely sure they are the wrong gender because that is "abnormal" where not wanting to switch genders is normal.
So with all the provisos that people with gender dysphoria should get the right support and help then there is no issue with an advert portraying someone who has made that decision.
Because you can't, surely, deny that there is a significant number of people who are genuinely gender dysphoric and those people have a right to live in society in a normal way and be accepted as such.
I absolutely deny that the present number of boys and girls suddenly questioning their gender/sex reflects an actual surge of real trans people - nor is it a revelation that 28% of kids have been trans all the time and we just didn’t realise
For an unfortunate few, gender dysphoria is a real issue. I have a trans female friend - who I’ve always supported - who has had the surgery and is now a somewhat happier person - but you know what? She condemns the present activism and condemns the way it is being pushed on society
In my opinion what we are seeing is a cruel fashion. Unhappy boys and girls - mainly girls - are being told their unhappiness is because they were “born in the wrong body” whereas in fact they are probably on the spectrum; have social anxiety issues; are gay and can’t face it etc yet they are being led towards dangerous drugs and irreversible surgery. It is monstrous
I’ve seen this with my own eyes
Since the 2000s, the number of people self identifying as gay, lesbian or bisexual (especially bisexual), has increased year after year, with younger people more likely to identify as the above than other age groups. Do you think that being LGB is also a contagion, or do you think that the end of things like section 28, the general social attitudes to LGB people improving and the normalisation of same sex relationships have made more people willing to come out or self ID that way?
The same is obviously the case for transpeople, like the rest of the community before. If the "transgender tipping point" was 2015, we would expect a rise in the population identifying as trans as it became more socially acceptable. That 1% of young people now identify as trans (I don't know where the 28% figure comes from) shouldn't be surprising with these other trends.
The other argument typically used is that transwomen were typically considered more likely than transmen (mtf transition being more common than ftm transition). I again would argue that the liberation of women and those assigned female at birth has led to those perceived as women to have more access and ability to transition than in previous times. Historically, those perceived as men were taken more seriously by doctors and almost all doctors would have been cismen (and whilst this is still likely the case, it has reduced). Transmisogyny often still infantilises transmen, as misogyny infantilises ciswomen, and monsters transwomen, as misogyny monsters any ciswoman not deemed feminine enough for society.
In a decade or two we will look back in shame and wonder that we allowed people like you to impose your bizarre and damaging beliefs on society. It will be exactly like eugenics
So you have no answer to why the increase in people IDing as LGB since the early 2000s is not about a social contagion, no citation for your 28% figure and no reason outside of a social contagion theory that has been debunked for why the number of people identifying as trans has increased since 2015?
We fundamentally disagree. I’ve made my feelings quite clear. I don’t think there is any room for argument, we are so far apart
I’m happy to drop the debate as a lot of PBers find it either boring or bewildering
And I have a castle to explore….
I love that it is supposedly "TRAs" who are "no debate" and "resort to ad homs" and here I am, asking you for the reasons you believe things, having given you the reason I believe things, and you just say "nah, I don't have to, you're just as bad as a eugenicist".
I would also prefer not to have to come onto this political betting forum and debate and defend the existence of transpeople. But when people like yourself go out of their way to monster them for existing, I feel I have to. For my trans friends and family, I can't just let people spew whatever hatred they want unchallenged.
Alternatively, I’m the one who actually cares about young people and you are pushing a sinister and now pernicious creed
As I said: eugenics in the first half of the 20th century is the best parallel. Furiously approved by bien pensant lefties; also involving mutilation and sterilisation
Now seen for the abhorrence it is
Very unusually for you, you are over dramatising it. There are some genuinely gender dysphoric people, why indeed you know one of these; and some people who are latching onto gender dysphoria as a "go-to" diagnosis as we have seen in particular with GIDS and who are not "genuinely gender dysphoric" (whatever that means).
How many of each? Who knows - we should be working towards a state whereby everyone presenting gets appropriate support and directed in the appropriate direction. GIDS did not do that.
Or would you prefer a world populated and run by @Casino_Royale?
You’re never going to stop the @Dura_Ace of this world, who will build themselves something dodgy
LOL. I am quite into RC cars (the Ukrainians like them for some reason) so I have loads of dodgy Chinese Li-Pos but even I'm not reckless enough to keep them in the house.
A normal e-bike setup is 36V/12S. That's a lot of energy if the cheapest electronics the children of Shenzen can make goes up in smoke in an uncontrolled discharge.
imo it is just a societal cultural overshoot whereby such depictions at first shock (some people) and then mainstream is moved slightly so no "shock ads" are required and society becomes more diverse and inclusive.
On those terms it is a well done to Costa situation. Were their coffee not so gopping I might go and have a decaf Americano (leave room). But it is so I won't.
Plus coffee these days at those places is at the very least three quid a pop which is the greater scandal.
Costa Coffee would have had cartoons celebrating the forcible sterilisation of “retarded and promiscuous” poor women in the 1920s, when THAT was all the rage amongst The Woke Liberal Left
The lefties who are convinced they are on the progressive side of history should look at that example, and shudder
Nah. It's like ads for cars. No one is saying a 6-yr old can go out and buy a Nissan Qashqai. Transgenderism is a thing. At the same time, as we saw from GIDS, it is a hugely sensitive and difficult area that so far society hasn't handled particularly well.
As you note, there are severe mental health implications even if someone is absolutely sure they are the wrong gender because that is "abnormal" where not wanting to switch genders is normal.
So with all the provisos that people with gender dysphoria should get the right support and help then there is no issue with an advert portraying someone who has made that decision.
Because you can't, surely, deny that there is a significant number of people who are genuinely gender dysphoric and those people have a right to live in society in a normal way and be accepted as such.
I absolutely deny that the present number of boys and girls suddenly questioning their gender/sex reflects an actual surge of real trans people - nor is it a revelation that 28% of kids have been trans all the time and we just didn’t realise
For an unfortunate few, gender dysphoria is a real issue. I have a trans female friend - who I’ve always supported - who has had the surgery and is now a somewhat happier person - but you know what? She condemns the present activism and condemns the way it is being pushed on society
In my opinion what we are seeing is a cruel fashion. Unhappy boys and girls - mainly girls - are being told their unhappiness is because they were “born in the wrong body” whereas in fact they are probably on the spectrum; have social anxiety issues; are gay and can’t face it etc yet they are being led towards dangerous drugs and irreversible surgery. It is monstrous
I’ve seen this with my own eyes
Since the 2000s, the number of people self identifying as gay, lesbian or bisexual (especially bisexual), has increased year after year, with younger people more likely to identify as the above than other age groups. Do you think that being LGB is also a contagion, or do you think that the end of things like section 28, the general social attitudes to LGB people improving and the normalisation of same sex relationships have made more people willing to come out or self ID that way?
The same is obviously the case for transpeople, like the rest of the community before. If the "transgender tipping point" was 2015, we would expect a rise in the population identifying as trans as it became more socially acceptable. That 1% of young people now identify as trans (I don't know where the 28% figure comes from) shouldn't be surprising with these other trends.
The other argument typically used is that transwomen were typically considered more likely than transmen (mtf transition being more common than ftm transition). I again would argue that the liberation of women and those assigned female at birth has led to those perceived as women to have more access and ability to transition than in previous times. Historically, those perceived as men were taken more seriously by doctors and almost all doctors would have been cismen (and whilst this is still likely the case, it has reduced). Transmisogyny often still infantilises transmen, as misogyny infantilises ciswomen, and monsters transwomen, as misogyny monsters any ciswoman not deemed feminine enough for society.
In a decade or two we will look back in shame and wonder that we allowed people like you to impose your bizarre and damaging beliefs on society. It will be exactly like eugenics
So you have no answer to why the increase in people IDing as LGB since the early 2000s is not about a social contagion, no citation for your 28% figure and no reason outside of a social contagion theory that has been debunked for why the number of people identifying as trans has increased since 2015?
We fundamentally disagree. I’ve made my feelings quite clear. I don’t think there is any room for argument, we are so far apart
I’m happy to drop the debate as a lot of PBers find it either boring or bewildering
And I have a castle to explore….
I love that it is supposedly "TRAs" who are "no debate" and "resort to ad homs" and here I am, asking you for the reasons you believe things, having given you the reason I believe things, and you just say "nah, I don't have to, you're just as bad as a eugenicist".
I would also prefer not to have to come onto this political betting forum and debate and defend the existence of transpeople. But when people like yourself go out of their way to monster them for existing, I feel I have to. For my trans friends and family, I can't just let people spew whatever hatred they want unchallenged.
No one is denying the existence of trans people or their right to exist.
JK Rowling has never once done so in spite of the claims from TRA's
imo it is just a societal cultural overshoot whereby such depictions at first shock (some people) and then mainstream is moved slightly so no "shock ads" are required and society becomes more diverse and inclusive.
On those terms it is a well done to Costa situation. Were their coffee not so gopping I might go and have a decaf Americano (leave room). But it is so I won't.
Plus coffee these days at those places is at the very least three quid a pop which is the greater scandal.
Costa Coffee would have had cartoons celebrating the forcible sterilisation of “retarded and promiscuous” poor women in the 1920s, when THAT was all the rage amongst The Woke Liberal Left
The lefties who are convinced they are on the progressive side of history should look at that example, and shudder
Nah. It's like ads for cars. No one is saying a 6-yr old can go out and buy a Nissan Qashqai. Transgenderism is a thing. At the same time, as we saw from GIDS, it is a hugely sensitive and difficult area that so far society hasn't handled particularly well.
As you note, there are severe mental health implications even if someone is absolutely sure they are the wrong gender because that is "abnormal" where not wanting to switch genders is normal.
So with all the provisos that people with gender dysphoria should get the right support and help then there is no issue with an advert portraying someone who has made that decision.
Because you can't, surely, deny that there is a significant number of people who are genuinely gender dysphoric and those people have a right to live in society in a normal way and be accepted as such.
I absolutely deny that the present number of boys and girls suddenly questioning their gender/sex reflects an actual surge of real trans people - nor is it a revelation that 28% of kids have been trans all the time and we just didn’t realise
For an unfortunate few, gender dysphoria is a real issue. I have a trans female friend - who I’ve always supported - who has had the surgery and is now a somewhat happier person - but you know what? She condemns the present activism and condemns the way it is being pushed on society
In my opinion what we are seeing is a cruel fashion. Unhappy boys and girls - mainly girls - are being told their unhappiness is because they were “born in the wrong body” whereas in fact they are probably on the spectrum; have social anxiety issues; are gay and can’t face it etc yet they are being led towards dangerous drugs and irreversible surgery. It is monstrous
I’ve seen this with my own eyes
Since the 2000s, the number of people self identifying as gay, lesbian or bisexual (especially bisexual), has increased year after year, with younger people more likely to identify as the above than other age groups. Do you think that being LGB is also a contagion, or do you think that the end of things like section 28, the general social attitudes to LGB people improving and the normalisation of same sex relationships have made more people willing to come out or self ID that way?
The same is obviously the case for transpeople, like the rest of the community before. If the "transgender tipping point" was 2015, we would expect a rise in the population identifying as trans as it became more socially acceptable. That 1% of young people now identify as trans (I don't know where the 28% figure comes from) shouldn't be surprising with these other trends.
The other argument typically used is that transwomen were typically considered more likely than transmen (mtf transition being more common than ftm transition). I again would argue that the liberation of women and those assigned female at birth has led to those perceived as women to have more access and ability to transition than in previous times. Historically, those perceived as men were taken more seriously by doctors and almost all doctors would have been cismen (and whilst this is still likely the case, it has reduced). Transmisogyny often still infantilises transmen, as misogyny infantilises ciswomen, and monsters transwomen, as misogyny monsters any ciswoman not deemed feminine enough for society.
In a decade or two we will look back in shame and wonder that we allowed people like you to impose your bizarre and damaging beliefs on society. It will be exactly like eugenics
So you have no answer to why the increase in people IDing as LGB since the early 2000s is not about a social contagion, no citation for your 28% figure and no reason outside of a social contagion theory that has been debunked for why the number of people identifying as trans has increased since 2015?
We fundamentally disagree. I’ve made my feelings quite clear. I don’t think there is any room for argument, we are so far apart
I’m happy to drop the debate as a lot of PBers find it either boring or bewildering
And I have a castle to explore….
I love that it is supposedly "TRAs" who are "no debate" and "resort to ad homs" and here I am, asking you for the reasons you believe things, having given you the reason I believe things, and you just say "nah, I don't have to, you're just as bad as a eugenicist".
I would also prefer not to have to come onto this political betting forum and debate and defend the existence of transpeople. But when people like yourself go out of their way to monster them for existing, I feel I have to. For my trans friends and family, I can't just let people spew whatever hatred they want unchallenged.
Alternatively, I’m the one who actually cares about young people and you are pushing a sinister and now pernicious creed
As I said: eugenics in the first half of the 20th century is the best parallel. Furiously approved by bien pensant lefties; also involving mutilation and sterilisation
Now seen for the abhorrence it is
How many young trans people do you know? How many trans people's experiences have you heard? You've mentioned one. If you're interested in the experience of a transwoman and her healthcare journey, I can suggest:
I would also suggest reading the goddamn literature and not going with your gut instinct that something you consider ikky must therefore be "mutilation". Again, I don't see the crusade against child circumcision coming from people like yourself - and that is clearly an unnecessary surgery performed on non consenting minors (partly) with the intent of reducing their sexual pleasure when they become adults. Nor, for all your comparisons to FGM, are anti trans bigots like yourself particularly vocal or organised at preventing it. Yet when young people and adults go looking for medical treatment - medical treatment that is often significantly lacking, slow and upsetting for the individuals involved - you and many like you feel the need to crusade against that.
On topic, Boycott Costa. They've picked a side and need to be punished for it.
That's the only way Woke Capitalism and these Culture Wars end.
I won't be buying anything there for the foreseeable.
Do you realise quite how pathetic you sound? How the mere thought of 'inclusion' of a marginalised group causes you to screech and holler like a petulant child?
I fear you might find it quite hard to find places to buy stuff in future ...
imo it is just a societal cultural overshoot whereby such depictions at first shock (some people) and then mainstream is moved slightly so no "shock ads" are required and society becomes more diverse and inclusive.
On those terms it is a well done to Costa situation. Were their coffee not so gopping I might go and have a decaf Americano (leave room). But it is so I won't.
Plus coffee these days at those places is at the very least three quid a pop which is the greater scandal.
Costa Coffee would have had cartoons celebrating the forcible sterilisation of “retarded and promiscuous” poor women in the 1920s, when THAT was all the rage amongst The Woke Liberal Left
The lefties who are convinced they are on the progressive side of history should look at that example, and shudder
Nah. It's like ads for cars. No one is saying a 6-yr old can go out and buy a Nissan Qashqai. Transgenderism is a thing. At the same time, as we saw from GIDS, it is a hugely sensitive and difficult area that so far society hasn't handled particularly well.
As you note, there are severe mental health implications even if someone is absolutely sure they are the wrong gender because that is "abnormal" where not wanting to switch genders is normal.
So with all the provisos that people with gender dysphoria should get the right support and help then there is no issue with an advert portraying someone who has made that decision.
Because you can't, surely, deny that there is a significant number of people who are genuinely gender dysphoric and those people have a right to live in society in a normal way and be accepted as such.
I absolutely deny that the present number of boys and girls suddenly questioning their gender/sex reflects an actual surge of real trans people - nor is it a revelation that 28% of kids have been trans all the time and we just didn’t realise
For an unfortunate few, gender dysphoria is a real issue. I have a trans female friend - who I’ve always supported - who has had the surgery and is now a somewhat happier person - but you know what? She condemns the present activism and condemns the way it is being pushed on society
In my opinion what we are seeing is a cruel fashion. Unhappy boys and girls - mainly girls - are being told their unhappiness is because they were “born in the wrong body” whereas in fact they are probably on the spectrum; have social anxiety issues; are gay and can’t face it etc yet they are being led towards dangerous drugs and irreversible surgery. It is monstrous
I’ve seen this with my own eyes
Since the 2000s, the number of people self identifying as gay, lesbian or bisexual (especially bisexual), has increased year after year, with younger people more likely to identify as the above than other age groups. Do you think that being LGB is also a contagion, or do you think that the end of things like section 28, the general social attitudes to LGB people improving and the normalisation of same sex relationships have made more people willing to come out or self ID that way?
The same is obviously the case for transpeople, like the rest of the community before. If the "transgender tipping point" was 2015, we would expect a rise in the population identifying as trans as it became more socially acceptable. That 1% of young people now identify as trans (I don't know where the 28% figure comes from) shouldn't be surprising with these other trends.
The other argument typically used is that transwomen were typically considered more likely than transmen (mtf transition being more common than ftm transition). I again would argue that the liberation of women and those assigned female at birth has led to those perceived as women to have more access and ability to transition than in previous times. Historically, those perceived as men were taken more seriously by doctors and almost all doctors would have been cismen (and whilst this is still likely the case, it has reduced). Transmisogyny often still infantilises transmen, as misogyny infantilises ciswomen, and monsters transwomen, as misogyny monsters any ciswoman not deemed feminine enough for society.
In a decade or two we will look back in shame and wonder that we allowed people like you to impose your bizarre and damaging beliefs on society. It will be exactly like eugenics
So you have no answer to why the increase in people IDing as LGB since the early 2000s is not about a social contagion, no citation for your 28% figure and no reason outside of a social contagion theory that has been debunked for why the number of people identifying as trans has increased since 2015?
We fundamentally disagree. I’ve made my feelings quite clear. I don’t think there is any room for argument, we are so far apart
I’m happy to drop the debate as a lot of PBers find it either boring or bewildering
And I have a castle to explore….
I love that it is supposedly "TRAs" who are "no debate" and "resort to ad homs" and here I am, asking you for the reasons you believe things, having given you the reason I believe things, and you just say "nah, I don't have to, you're just as bad as a eugenicist".
I would also prefer not to have to come onto this political betting forum and debate and defend the existence of transpeople. But when people like yourself go out of their way to monster them for existing, I feel I have to. For my trans friends and family, I can't just let people spew whatever hatred they want unchallenged.
No one is denying the existence of trans people or their right to exist.
JK Rowling has never once done so in spite of the claims from TRA's
They are not being monstered for existing.
I haven't mentioned JKR at all in this entire thread... but okay:
On topic, Boycott Costa. They've picked a side and need to be punished for it.
That's the only way Woke Capitalism and these Culture Wars end.
I won't be buying anything there for the foreseeable.
Do you realise quite how pathetic you sound? How the mere thought of 'inclusion' of a marginalised group causes you to screech and holler like a petulant child?
I fear you might find it quite hard to find places to buy stuff in future ...
Yes, but you're a fucking braindead Woke idiot- so we simply ignore what you say.
On topic, Boycott Costa. They've picked a side and need to be punished for it.
That's the only way Woke Capitalism and these Culture Wars end.
I won't be buying anything there for the foreseeable.
Do you realise quite how pathetic you sound? How the mere thought of 'inclusion' of a marginalised group causes you to screech and holler like a petulant child?
I fear you might find it quite hard to find places to buy stuff in future ...
Yes, but you're a fucking braindead Woke idiot- so we simply ignore what you say.
On topic, Boycott Costa. They've picked a side and need to be punished for it.
That's the only way Woke Capitalism and these Culture Wars end.
I won't be buying anything there for the foreseeable.
Do you realise quite how pathetic you sound? How the mere thought of 'inclusion' of a marginalised group causes you to screech and holler like a petulant child?
I fear you might find it quite hard to find places to buy stuff in future ...
Yes, but you're a fucking braindead Woke idiot- so we simply ignore what you say.
On topic, Boycott Costa. They've picked a side and need to be punished for it.
That's the only way Woke Capitalism and these Culture Wars end.
I won't be buying anything there for the foreseeable.
Do you realise quite how pathetic you sound? How the mere thought of 'inclusion' of a marginalised group causes you to screech and holler like a petulant child?
I fear you might find it quite hard to find places to buy stuff in future ...
Yes, but you're a fucking braindead Woke idiot- so we simply ignore what you say.
What does "Woke" mean?
Only Wokies ask this (so it means people like you) and they never understand or accept the answer.
I'm tired of repeatedly explaining it to no avail, and have better things to do with my time.
On topic, Boycott Costa. They've picked a side and need to be punished for it.
That's the only way Woke Capitalism and these Culture Wars end.
I won't be buying anything there for the foreseeable.
Do you realise quite how pathetic you sound? How the mere thought of 'inclusion' of a marginalised group causes you to screech and holler like a petulant child?
I fear you might find it quite hard to find places to buy stuff in future ...
Yes, but you're a fucking braindead Woke idiot- so we simply ignore what you say.
Mate, mate - I would take a rest. You're winding yourself up on here and in the immortal phrase, it's not werf it.
Plenty of other things to do than debate the trans issue on the internet with complete strangers.
On topic, Boycott Costa. They've picked a side and need to be punished for it.
That's the only way Woke Capitalism and these Culture Wars end.
I won't be buying anything there for the foreseeable.
Do you realise quite how pathetic you sound? How the mere thought of 'inclusion' of a marginalised group causes you to screech and holler like a petulant child?
I fear you might find it quite hard to find places to buy stuff in future ...
Yes, but you're a fucking braindead Woke idiot- so we simply ignore what you say.
Who's 'we' ?
And what's your definition of 'woke'?
Another one!!!
People will look back on people like you and @148grss in 20 years time, and laugh.
I find if you substitute the phrase "political correctness gone mad" for "woke" then it tells you all you need to know about the user of the word "woke".
On topic, Boycott Costa. They've picked a side and need to be punished for it.
That's the only way Woke Capitalism and these Culture Wars end.
I won't be buying anything there for the foreseeable.
CR: Oh no, not the trans topic again *eye roll emoji*
Also CR: Boycott Costa for showing a trans person in an advert.
What is "Woke Capitalism"? What are the "Culture Wars"? Do you also believe in "Cultural Marxism" or the like?
Can Capitalism really ever truly be woke? Back in the early 00s Disney was very squeamish about 'gay stuff', seemed to recoil away from anything that might hint at the whiff of same-sex relationships. Because they calculated they would turn more people off, which would hit their bottom line.
Now things have changed, and there is more to gain by embracing LGB than being silent. The T is just a bit behind that. If companies are right, then by embracing Trans issues, they'll make some more money than they otherwise might have. If they're wrong, they'll lose money and their businesses can be replaced by their competitors.
Considering that the topic has come up once more; read this fascinating review of the work of the "major" GC "intellectuals" which points out how the history of feminist philosophy has long argued against a rigid biological definition of woman or womanhood:
imo it is just a societal cultural overshoot whereby such depictions at first shock (some people) and then mainstream is moved slightly so no "shock ads" are required and society becomes more diverse and inclusive.
On those terms it is a well done to Costa situation. Were their coffee not so gopping I might go and have a decaf Americano (leave room). But it is so I won't.
Plus coffee these days at those places is at the very least three quid a pop which is the greater scandal.
Costa Coffee would have had cartoons celebrating the forcible sterilisation of “retarded and promiscuous” poor women in the 1920s, when THAT was all the rage amongst The Woke Liberal Left
The lefties who are convinced they are on the progressive side of history should look at that example, and shudder
Nah. It's like ads for cars. No one is saying a 6-yr old can go out and buy a Nissan Qashqai. Transgenderism is a thing. At the same time, as we saw from GIDS, it is a hugely sensitive and difficult area that so far society hasn't handled particularly well.
As you note, there are severe mental health implications even if someone is absolutely sure they are the wrong gender because that is "abnormal" where not wanting to switch genders is normal.
So with all the provisos that people with gender dysphoria should get the right support and help then there is no issue with an advert portraying someone who has made that decision.
Because you can't, surely, deny that there is a significant number of people who are genuinely gender dysphoric and those people have a right to live in society in a normal way and be accepted as such.
I absolutely deny that the present number of boys and girls suddenly questioning their gender/sex reflects an actual surge of real trans people - nor is it a revelation that 28% of kids have been trans all the time and we just didn’t realise
For an unfortunate few, gender dysphoria is a real issue. I have a trans female friend - who I’ve always supported - who has had the surgery and is now a somewhat happier person - but you know what? She condemns the present activism and condemns the way it is being pushed on society
In my opinion what we are seeing is a cruel fashion. Unhappy boys and girls - mainly girls - are being told their unhappiness is because they were “born in the wrong body” whereas in fact they are probably on the spectrum; have social anxiety issues; are gay and can’t face it etc yet they are being led towards dangerous drugs and irreversible surgery. It is monstrous
I’ve seen this with my own eyes
Since the 2000s, the number of people self identifying as gay, lesbian or bisexual (especially bisexual), has increased year after year, with younger people more likely to identify as the above than other age groups. Do you think that being LGB is also a contagion, or do you think that the end of things like section 28, the general social attitudes to LGB people improving and the normalisation of same sex relationships have made more people willing to come out or self ID that way?
The same is obviously the case for transpeople, like the rest of the community before. If the "transgender tipping point" was 2015, we would expect a rise in the population identifying as trans as it became more socially acceptable. That 1% of young people now identify as trans (I don't know where the 28% figure comes from) shouldn't be surprising with these other trends.
The other argument typically used is that transwomen were typically considered more likely than transmen (mtf transition being more common than ftm transition). I again would argue that the liberation of women and those assigned female at birth has led to those perceived as women to have more access and ability to transition than in previous times. Historically, those perceived as men were taken more seriously by doctors and almost all doctors would have been cismen (and whilst this is still likely the case, it has reduced). Transmisogyny often still infantilises transmen, as misogyny infantilises ciswomen, and monsters transwomen, as misogyny monsters any ciswoman not deemed feminine enough for society.
In a decade or two we will look back in shame and wonder that we allowed people like you to impose your bizarre and damaging beliefs on society. It will be exactly like eugenics
So you have no answer to why the increase in people IDing as LGB since the early 2000s is not about a social contagion, no citation for your 28% figure and no reason outside of a social contagion theory that has been debunked for why the number of people identifying as trans has increased since 2015?
We fundamentally disagree. I’ve made my feelings quite clear. I don’t think there is any room for argument, we are so far apart
I’m happy to drop the debate as a lot of PBers find it either boring or bewildering
And I have a castle to explore….
I love that it is supposedly "TRAs" who are "no debate" and "resort to ad homs" and here I am, asking you for the reasons you believe things, having given you the reason I believe things, and you just say "nah, I don't have to, you're just as bad as a eugenicist".
I would also prefer not to have to come onto this political betting forum and debate and defend the existence of transpeople. But when people like yourself go out of their way to monster them for existing, I feel I have to. For my trans friends and family, I can't just let people spew whatever hatred they want unchallenged.
No one is denying the existence of trans people or their right to exist.
JK Rowling has never once done so in spite of the claims from TRA's
They are not being monstered for existing.
Leaving JK Rowling aside for the moment, preventing trans people being trans is logically equivalent to preventing the existence of trans people: the "existence" is in the expression.
On topic, Boycott Costa. They've picked a side and need to be punished for it.
That's the only way Woke Capitalism and these Culture Wars end.
I won't be buying anything there for the foreseeable.
CR: Oh no, not the trans topic again *eye roll emoji*
Also CR: Boycott Costa for showing a trans person in an advert.
What is "Woke Capitalism"? What are the "Culture Wars"? Do you also believe in "Cultural Marxism" or the like?
Can Capitalism really ever truly be woke? Back in the early 00s Disney was very squeamish about 'gay stuff', seemed to recoil away from anything that might hint at the whiff of same-sex relationships. Because they calculated they would turn more people off, which would hit their bottom line.
Now things have changed, and there is more to gain by embracing LGB than being silent. The T is just a bit behind that. If companies are right, then by embracing Trans issues, they'll make some more money than they otherwise might have. If they're wrong, they'll lose money and their businesses can be replaced by their competitors.
Companies aren't being "woke" (not that I know what some people mean by that) - they either market things they think will appeal to people with dispensable income, or they do things to cover their arses from lawsuits. They don't care about inclusion or diversity or whatever; they care about profit.
Although that's technically wrong. The initial Launch was in October 2019 in the Smithsonian Museum cafes. Didn't exactly work well as the only people who were interested were random UK tourists (such as us)...
I was trying not to be parochial but yes, for sure: Tower of London
Arguably the greatest in the world given its outrageous location and unexampled history
I guess you gotta include Mad King Ludwig’s - tho I’ve never actually been there
Krak Des Chevaliers in Syria is outstandingly atmospheric
Some of the Japanese castles are striking - but they are all so heavily restored (because, made of wood and always burning down)
I love pootling around the Loire (done it once, actually) where you happen upon these chateaux and in front or in the entrance hall is a slightly distrait late middle aged couple in cable knit jumpers offering you a glass of Pineau as their families have been owners of the place for centuries.
Of course you don't just happen upon Chenonceau...
I find if you substitute the phrase "political correctness gone mad" for "woke" then it tells you all you need to know about the user of the word "woke".
Totally wrong, and another sign of limited intellect and ability to think.
On topic, Boycott Costa. They've picked a side and need to be punished for it.
That's the only way Woke Capitalism and these Culture Wars end.
I won't be buying anything there for the foreseeable.
Do you realise quite how pathetic you sound? How the mere thought of 'inclusion' of a marginalised group causes you to screech and holler like a petulant child?
I fear you might find it quite hard to find places to buy stuff in future ...
Yes, but you're a fucking braindead Woke idiot- so we simply ignore what you say.
Who's 'we' ?
And what's your definition of 'woke'?
Another one!!!
People will look back on people like you and @148grss in 20 years time, and laugh.
Similar things were said about gay marriage, legalisation of homosexuality, and many other so-called 'progressive' causes. The conservatives were on the wrong side of history then. Why are you so convinced that you are on the 'right' side now?
I actually laugh at the homophobes who were against the legalisation of homosexuality or gay marriage. Or going back further, those who thought that women getting the vote was a bad idea.
I find if you substitute the phrase "political correctness gone mad" for "woke" then it tells you all you need to know about the user of the word "woke".
Totally wrong, and another sign of limited intellect and ability to think.
Yep that's me.
Nevertheless I am able to not get wound up by what people say on internet chat rooms if they disagree with me.
On topic, Boycott Costa. They've picked a side and need to be punished for it.
That's the only way Woke Capitalism and these Culture Wars end.
I won't be buying anything there for the foreseeable.
Do you realise quite how pathetic you sound? How the mere thought of 'inclusion' of a marginalised group causes you to screech and holler like a petulant child?
I fear you might find it quite hard to find places to buy stuff in future ...
Yes, but you're a fucking braindead Woke idiot- so we simply ignore what you say.
What does "Woke" mean?
Only Wokies ask this (so it means people like you) and they never understand or accept the answer.
I'm tired of repeatedly explaining it to no avail, and have better things to do with my time.
The problem is that different people have different meanings of the word.
I know where "woke" comes from - it comes from AAV and was part of the way that African Americans would discuss the intersection of race and class; that no matter how rich you got as a black person in the US you were still discriminated against, and you stay "awake" to that no matter your class position. "Stay woke" meaning "stay aware of the shared racial struggle".
Now it just seems to mean anything right wingers dislike.
Instead of strawmanning you, I would prefer to know your specific definition of "woke" so I can tell you if I disagree with it. Same in regards to "culture war" or indeed other ideas like "cultural marxist" (if that is something you believe in).
The thousand year old castle of Krements Podolskiy, perched on a rocky outcrop almost completely surrounded by a deep ravine
It is so impregnable, according to legend/history it was the only citadel to ever resist the Mongol horses. I have my doubts about this but still. Wow
That’s straight into my top ten castles
Other contenders
Krak Des Chevaliers Caerphilly? Chenonceau Where else?
Jeez. Tower of London.
Good call. A proper castle. None of this over ornate crenellation and Disney nonsense. It's "Oi! We are here to oppress you. None of this sleeping princesses and true love's kiss nonsense. We have thumbscrews. You got that Picts/Celts/whoever? Good."
PS I think the Tower of London is still an official prison
(oh, and may I suggest Windsor Castle, or is that too obvious?)
I find if you substitute the phrase "political correctness gone mad" for "woke" then it tells you all you need to know about the user of the word "woke".
Totally wrong, and another sign of limited intellect and ability to think.
Can you tell me the differences between these two things in your mind? A definition of both or either would be useful.
On topic, Boycott Costa. They've picked a side and need to be punished for it.
That's the only way Woke Capitalism and these Culture Wars end.
I won't be buying anything there for the foreseeable.
Do you realise quite how pathetic you sound? How the mere thought of 'inclusion' of a marginalised group causes you to screech and holler like a petulant child?
I fear you might find it quite hard to find places to buy stuff in future ...
Yes, but you're a fucking braindead Woke idiot- so we simply ignore what you say.
Who's 'we' ?
And what's your definition of 'woke'?
Another one!!!
People will look back on people like you and @148grss in 20 years time, and laugh.
Similar things were said about gay marriage, legalisation of homosexuality, and many other so-called 'progressive' causes. The conservatives were on the wrong side of history then. Why are you so convinced that you are on the 'right' side now?
I actually laugh at the homophobes who were against the legalisation of homosexuality or gay marriage. Or going back further, those who thought that women getting the vote was a bad idea.
History isn't indefinite one way traffic, for example the Restoration and Georgian eras were more socially liberal than the Cromwellian Protectorate or Victorian era. It may be we continue to become even more socially liberal or it may be we are now at peak social liberalism
You’re never going to stop the @Dura_Ace of this world, who will build themselves something dodgy
LOL. I am quite into RC cars (the Ukrainians like them for some reason) so I have loads of dodgy Chinese Li-Pos but even I'm not reckless enough to keep them in the house.
A normal e-bike setup is 36V/12S. That's a lot of energy if the cheapest electronics the children of Shenzen can make goes up in smoke in an uncontrolled discharge.
On topic, Boycott Costa. They've picked a side and need to be punished for it.
That's the only way Woke Capitalism and these Culture Wars end.
I won't be buying anything there for the foreseeable.
Do you realise quite how pathetic you sound? How the mere thought of 'inclusion' of a marginalised group causes you to screech and holler like a petulant child?
I fear you might find it quite hard to find places to buy stuff in future ...
Yes, but you're a fucking braindead Woke idiot- so we simply ignore what you say.
Who's 'we' ?
And what's your definition of 'woke'?
Another one!!!
People will look back on people like you and @148grss in 20 years time, and laugh.
Similar things were said about gay marriage, legalisation of homosexuality, and many other so-called 'progressive' causes. The conservatives were on the wrong side of history then. Why are you so convinced that you are on the 'right' side now?
I actually laugh at the homophobes who were against the legalisation of homosexuality or gay marriage. Or going back further, those who thought that women getting the vote was a bad idea.
History isn't indefinite one way traffic, for example the Restoration and Georgian eras were more socially liberal than the Victorian era. It may be we continue to become even more socially liberal or it may be we are now at peak social liberalism
Yes - that's called being a reactionary. Progress in rights are made, then a reaction against that is formed (typically) by conservatives.
On topic, Boycott Costa. They've picked a side and need to be punished for it.
That's the only way Woke Capitalism and these Culture Wars end.
I won't be buying anything there for the foreseeable.
Do you realise quite how pathetic you sound? How the mere thought of 'inclusion' of a marginalised group causes you to screech and holler like a petulant child?
I fear you might find it quite hard to find places to buy stuff in future ...
Yes, but you're a fucking braindead Woke idiot- so we simply ignore what you say.
Mate, mate - I would take a rest. You're winding yourself up on here and in the immortal phrase, it's not werf it.
Plenty of other things to do than debate the trans issue on the internet with complete strangers.
Good idea.
But he can't complain of my robust response in kind if he deals out personal insults purely off the back of me issuing a robust response to companies cynically campaigning on divisive identity politics, that have real-world consequences in polarising society and a total loss of common sense in public policy and day-to-day life.
These companies only understand it (and learn their lesson) if they are hit in the pocket and that's precisely what I intend to do.
On topic, Boycott Costa. They've picked a side and need to be punished for it.
That's the only way Woke Capitalism and these Culture Wars end.
I won't be buying anything there for the foreseeable.
Do you realise quite how pathetic you sound? How the mere thought of 'inclusion' of a marginalised group causes you to screech and holler like a petulant child?
I fear you might find it quite hard to find places to buy stuff in future ...
Yes, but you're a fucking braindead Woke idiot- so we simply ignore what you say.
Who's 'we' ?
And what's your definition of 'woke'?
Another one!!!
People will look back on people like you and @148grss in 20 years time, and laugh.
Similar things were said about gay marriage, legalisation of homosexuality, and many other so-called 'progressive' causes. The conservatives were on the wrong side of history then. Why are you so convinced that you are on the 'right' side now?
I actually laugh at the homophobes who were against the legalisation of homosexuality or gay marriage. Or going back further, those who thought that women getting the vote was a bad idea.
Cromwell was right about the property qualification to vote. Discuss…
On topic, Boycott Costa. They've picked a side and need to be punished for it.
That's the only way Woke Capitalism and these Culture Wars end.
I won't be buying anything there for the foreseeable.
Do you realise quite how pathetic you sound? How the mere thought of 'inclusion' of a marginalised group causes you to screech and holler like a petulant child?
I fear you might find it quite hard to find places to buy stuff in future ...
Yes, but you're a fucking braindead Woke idiot- so we simply ignore what you say.
Who's 'we' ?
And what's your definition of 'woke'?
Another one!!!
People will look back on people like you and @148grss in 20 years time, and laugh.
Similar things were said about gay marriage, legalisation of homosexuality, and many other so-called 'progressive' causes. The conservatives were on the wrong side of history then. Why are you so convinced that you are on the 'right' side now?
I actually laugh at the homophobes who were against the legalisation of homosexuality or gay marriage. Or going back further, those who thought that women getting the vote was a bad idea.
I find if you substitute the phrase "political correctness gone mad" for "woke" then it tells you all you need to know about the user of the word "woke".
Totally wrong, and another sign of limited intellect and ability to think.
Can you tell me the differences between these two things in your mind? A definition of both or either would be useful.
No, I'm with my family on holiday and don't have time.
On topic, Boycott Costa. They've picked a side and need to be punished for it.
That's the only way Woke Capitalism and these Culture Wars end.
I won't be buying anything there for the foreseeable.
Do you realise quite how pathetic you sound? How the mere thought of 'inclusion' of a marginalised group causes you to screech and holler like a petulant child?
I fear you might find it quite hard to find places to buy stuff in future ...
Yes, but you're a fucking braindead Woke idiot- so we simply ignore what you say.
Who's 'we' ?
And what's your definition of 'woke'?
Another one!!!
People will look back on people like you and @148grss in 20 years time, and laugh.
Similar things were said about gay marriage, legalisation of homosexuality, and many other so-called 'progressive' causes. The conservatives were on the wrong side of history then. Why are you so convinced that you are on the 'right' side now?
I actually laugh at the homophobes who were against the legalisation of homosexuality or gay marriage. Or going back further, those who thought that women getting the vote was a bad idea.
More about Ritchie Herron
"He decided he was transgender and “all my struggles were due to gender dysphoria” — an idea he says was encouraged by older activists in internet forums. He fixated on the idea that “my body was being poisoned by testosterone”, he says.
...
“Today, despite multiple follow-up surgeries, my scar lines still weep, occasionally becoming inflamed and causing crippling pain. In the flesh cavity that was created to mimic a vagina, I feel mostly nothing, aside from the occasional stabs of pain. I can’t use the toilet properly . . . and no matter how hard I push or strain, a dribble emerges, which may continue for hours after I have left the seat."
Comments
For an unfortunate few, gender dysphoria is a real issue. I have a trans female friend - who I’ve always supported - who has had the surgery and is now a somewhat happier person - but you know what? She condemns the present activism and condemns the way it is being pushed on society
In my opinion what we are seeing is a cruel fashion. Unhappy boys and girls - mainly girls - are being told their unhappiness is because they were “born in the wrong body” whereas in fact they are probably on the spectrum; have social anxiety issues; are gay and can’t face it etc yet they are being led towards dangerous drugs and irreversible surgery. It is monstrous
I’ve seen this with my own eyes
If the issue is just a general distaste for people who are trans, on the other hand, then that would explain the immediate repulsion and disgust from some.
I don’t know why Costa continue to make substandard stuff. Just needs the beans to have been roasted very recently, ideally that day. Which for a large chain with its own manufacturing facilities or nearby suppliers should be no more difficult than having freshly baked pastries every day.
But FWIW Mrs C and I have two such couples within our close friends. Known to us from school and work respectively, rather than family, BTW. Edit: so not my impression that they are that scarce.
The point of advertising is to promote your product to the widest possible audience from the widest possible demographic within the income ranges you are wanting to attract.
As such having a mixed race family in your advert makes perfect sense. I have seen those bemoaning this as 'unrepresentative' or even 'woke' because they are looking at it in terms of a family unit rather than individuals. But it is far more basic than that. It is just good business, ensuring maximum exposure to your target audience. I really don't see what there is to moan about (not that you are the one moaning of course)
The same is obviously the case for transpeople, like the rest of the community before. If the "transgender tipping point" was 2015, we would expect a rise in the population identifying as trans as it became more socially acceptable. That 1% of young people now identify as trans (I don't know where the 28% figure comes from) shouldn't be surprising with these other trends.
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/culturalidentity/genderidentity/articles/genderidentityageandsexenglandandwalescensus2021/2023-01-25
The other argument typically used is that transwomen were typically considered more likely than transmen (mtf transition being more common than ftm transition). I again would argue that the liberation of women and those assigned female at birth has led to those perceived as women to have more access and ability to transition than in previous times. Historically, those perceived as men were taken more seriously by doctors and almost all doctors would have been cismen (and whilst this is still likely the case, it has reduced). Transmisogyny often still infantilises transmen, as misogyny infantilises ciswomen, and monsters transwomen, as misogyny monsters any ciswoman not deemed feminine enough for society.
Laters.
A normal e-bike setup is 36V/12S. That's a lot of energy if the cheapest electronics the children of Shenzen can make goes up in smoke in an uncontrolled discharge.
I once spent ten days touring Eastern Europe chasing up her story for the Gazette. This is where she died, starving and raving, walled up in a cell in her own castle in Cachtice, Slovakia
Remarkably, most of the legend appears to be true. She really did mutilate, torture and murder dozens of servant girls. And many other depravities. Modern day wokeists probably see her as an exciting pioneer of “routine top surgery”
To the point that the Guardian ran an article, worrying that black people were getting rich, moving out to the country and er… “losing their cultural identity”.
That's the only way Woke Capitalism and these Culture Wars end.
I won't be buying anything there for the foreseeable.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12358515/E-bike-battery-blew-killed-mother-four-minutes-started-charging-experts-warn-six-fires-week-caused-batteries-e-scooters-bikes-explode-TERRIFYING-force.html
Also CR: Boycott Costa for showing a trans person in an advert.
What is "Woke Capitalism"? What are the "Culture Wars"? Do you also believe in "Cultural Marxism" or the like?
I’m happy to drop the debate as a lot of PBers find it either boring or bewildering
And I have a castle to explore….
Nor would I have been likely to have seen it without the outraged highlighting it.
There are far more important issues in choosing a coffee shop: taste, location, price and general ethics. This doesn't feature for me one way or the other.
Leon must have put in a modicum of effort to be quite so offensively stupid.
I fear you might find it quite hard to find places to buy stuff in future ...
A Coca-Cola boycott in the UK could get very interesting!
I would also prefer not to have to come onto this political betting forum and debate and defend the existence of transpeople. But when people like yourself go out of their way to monster them for existing, I feel I have to. For my trans friends and family, I can't just let people spew whatever hatred they want unchallenged.
(It is boy, isn't it? Sorry if I have misgendered you.)
Three Just Stop Oil activists who ran onto the pitch during the second Ashes Test appear to have denied disrupting the cricket match by claiming there is no evidence the game was lawful.
Huge if true.
As I said: eugenics in the first half of the 20th century is the best parallel. Furiously approved by bien pensant lefties; also involving mutilation and sterilisation
Now seen for the abhorrence it is
Trans v terf, drivers v cyclists, Tory v Labour, UK v EU - they all have nothing on Coke v Pepsi arguments!
How many of each? Who knows - we should be working towards a state whereby everyone presenting gets appropriate support and directed in the appropriate direction. GIDS did not do that.
Or would you prefer a world populated and run by @Casino_Royale?
Now I feel dirty - I said the Heil did a “good thing”
Awareness is a problem - last summer, when we had the scorching hot days in London, I was down on the river a fair bit.
Some idiots got a speedboat and charged around the river. Some lads on the embankment were admiring this.
So I pointed out that there were speed limits - which they didn’t know. And that they were there because of swimmers, canoeists, rowers etc.
They literally said “Oh, I hadn’t thought of that”
Costing PBers a 9/1 winner.
JK Rowling has never once done so in spite of the claims from TRA's
They are not being monstered for existing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1eWIshUzr8
I can also suggest The Transgender Issue by Shon Faye
https://www.waterstones.com/book/the-transgender-issue/shon-faye/9780141991801
I would also suggest reading the goddamn literature and not going with your gut instinct that something you consider ikky must therefore be "mutilation". Again, I don't see the crusade against child circumcision coming from people like yourself - and that is clearly an unnecessary surgery performed on non consenting minors (partly) with the intent of reducing their sexual pleasure when they become adults. Nor, for all your comparisons to FGM, are anti trans bigots like yourself particularly vocal or organised at preventing it. Yet when young people and adults go looking for medical treatment - medical treatment that is often significantly lacking, slow and upsetting for the individuals involved - you and many like you feel the need to crusade against that.
Be well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBy93QX7ysE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ou_xvXJJk7k
The thousand year old castle of Kremenets Podolskiy, perched on a rocky outcrop almost completely surrounded by a deep ravine
It is so impregnable, according to legend/history it was the only citadel to ever resist the Mongol hordes. I have my doubts about this but still. Wow
That’s straight into my top ten castles
Other contenders
Krak Des Chevaliers
Caerphilly?
Chenonceau
Where else?
And what's your definition of 'woke'?
I'm tired of repeatedly explaining it to no avail, and have better things to do with my time.
Plenty of other things to do than debate the trans issue on the internet with complete strangers.
People will look back on people like you and @148grss in 20 years time, and laugh.
Bamburgh might have the best beach though
Now things have changed, and there is more to gain by embracing LGB than being silent. The T is just a bit behind that. If companies are right, then by embracing Trans issues, they'll make some more money than they otherwise might have. If they're wrong, they'll lose money and their businesses can be replaced by their competitors.
https://lareviewofbooks.org/article/gender-criticism-versus-gender-abolition-on-three-recent-books-about-gender/
I once spent ten days touring wss I was trying not to be parochial but yes, for sure: Tower of London
Arguably the greatest in the world given its outrageous location and unexampled history
I guess you gotta include Mad King Ludwig’s - tho I’ve never actually been there
Krak Des Chevaliers in Syria is outstandingly atmospheric
Some of the Japanese castles are striking - but they are all so heavily restored (because, made of wood and always burning down)
If one said Catholic people were allowed to exist but prevented from praying in Catholic churches, prevented from believing the four Marian dogmas, enforced the doxology version of the Lord's Prayer and no bells and smells, then one is preventing Catholic people from existing as Catholic.
Although that's technically wrong. The initial Launch was in October 2019 in the Smithsonian Museum cafes. Didn't exactly work well as the only people who were interested were random UK tourists (such as us)...
Of course you don't just happen upon Chenonceau...
I actually laugh at the homophobes who were against the legalisation of homosexuality or gay marriage. Or going back further, those who thought that women getting the vote was a bad idea.
Nevertheless I am able to not get wound up by what people say on internet chat rooms if they disagree with me.
I know where "woke" comes from - it comes from AAV and was part of the way that African Americans would discuss the intersection of race and class; that no matter how rich you got as a black person in the US you were still discriminated against, and you stay "awake" to that no matter your class position. "Stay woke" meaning "stay aware of the shared racial struggle".
Now it just seems to mean anything right wingers dislike.
Instead of strawmanning you, I would prefer to know your specific definition of "woke" so I can tell you if I disagree with it. Same in regards to "culture war" or indeed other ideas like "cultural marxist" (if that is something you believe in).
PS I think the Tower of London is still an official prison
(oh, and may I suggest Windsor Castle, or is that too obvious?)
But he can't complain of my robust response in kind if he deals out personal insults purely off the back of me issuing a robust response to companies cynically campaigning on divisive identity politics, that have real-world consequences in polarising society and a total loss of common sense in public policy and day-to-day life.
These companies only understand it (and learn their lesson) if they are hit in the pocket and that's precisely what I intend to do.
You genuinely are thick.
You wouldn't understand anyway. Too far gone.
There are some impressive fortresses in Korea (14km of walls, etc) but those are largely ruins.
Matsumoto and Himeji in Japanese good.
"He decided he was transgender and “all my struggles were due to gender dysphoria” — an idea he says was encouraged by older activists in internet forums. He fixated on the idea that “my body was being poisoned by testosterone”, he says.
...
“Today, despite multiple follow-up surgeries, my scar lines still weep, occasionally becoming inflamed and causing crippling pain. In the flesh cavity that was created to mimic a vagina, I feel mostly nothing, aside from the occasional stabs of pain. I can’t use the toilet properly . . . and no matter how hard I push or strain, a dribble emerges, which may continue for hours after I have left the seat."
Older activists in internet forums.
ETA: And Barbara, of course!
We should deffo include the Kremlin. That’s a proper castle. Fortified with battlements and machicolations and everything. Magnificent