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Slides from the latest Ipsos poll – politicalbetting.com

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  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,411

    Interesting to see that at least one person has read "The Marching Morons". Recently.

    Which reminds me of the conclusion that the "Freakonomics"people came to some years ago: As I recall, they concluded that a drop in crime in the US had been caused by legalized abortion. And I think the Notorious RBG once said something supporting that conclusion. Somthing like we only kill the bad ones.

    Whether or not you agree with that conclusion, I hope you will agree with me that that kind of thinking is, well, more than a little creepy. Not necessarily false, but creepy.

    (For the record: I haven't looked at the study. But I found the positive reactions to it troubling. Especially since a disproportionate number of abortions in the US (30%?) are performed on black mothers.)

    I have read all two or three of the Freakonomics books (the third is called something like "how to rob a bank" and is written by one of the pair, I think). Apols if there's a fourth I've missed out. Anyhoo, yes. I found it plausible, but "plausible" is not the same as "true". Now Roe vs Wade has been cancelled it will be interesting to see if crime rates go back up in twenty years or not.

  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,958
    viewcode said:
    Nice to see that City AM hasn't gone out of business yet.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,411
    Nigelb said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Andy_JS said:

    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    Weather looks on course for a proper u-turn from around the 10th August. Not before time.

    You really trust the weather forecast that far out? :lol:
    Last July I raised the possibility of 40C here, a fortnight before it happened and pretty much to the day. In the face of another poster promising to eat his hat. So, you know..
    What do you make of the fact that the 40 degree temperature was measured on an airfield just as fighter jets were landing?

    https://dailysceptic.org/2023/06/28/exclusive-three-typhoon-jets-landed-next-to-measuring-device-when-britains-record-temperature-of-40-3c-was-recorded/
    This is a fucking stupid article. As might be expected from that site which is by and for the fucking stupid.

    First, ambient temperature isn't affected by aircraft activity unless you're stood behind the exhaust.

    Second, the RAF monitor the temperature on the runway because it has an effect on engine performance, among other things, and therefore influences T/O and other performance calculations. It is directly contrary to their best interests (not losing aircraft and killing crew) to have an unrepresentative reading.
    Extra marks for the use of "the fact that", though.
    The fact that you highlighted the fact that they had used "the fact that" when explaining the fact that an aircraft had acknowledged the fact that gravity pulls down and thus experienced the fact of landing is a fact that impressed me.

    And that's a fact.

    :)
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,475
    kle4 said:

    I am beginning to think Rishi will be more upset at losing the next election than people think. I mean, the family is rich enough he never needed politics anyway, and it also means he won't derive as much benefit from being vastly overpaid on the speech circuit like Boris and May, or even Truss getting some gigs. Not that they all did it for the money, of course not, but their need for a living even though mostly well off is on another level to Rishi.

    I disagree. What could he do in business that his father in law hasn’t done better? He became PM on his own.

    It’s the one sphere where he has achieved something himself
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,256
    Interesting article, which is more about the growing strength of Ukraine's institutions than any details of the 'plan'.

    Ukraine’s plan if Russia assassinates Zelenskyy
    https://www.politico.eu/article/ukraines-plan-volodymyr-zelenskyy-dies-russia-war/
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,256
    viewcode said:

    Nigelb said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Andy_JS said:

    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    Weather looks on course for a proper u-turn from around the 10th August. Not before time.

    You really trust the weather forecast that far out? :lol:
    Last July I raised the possibility of 40C here, a fortnight before it happened and pretty much to the day. In the face of another poster promising to eat his hat. So, you know..
    What do you make of the fact that the 40 degree temperature was measured on an airfield just as fighter jets were landing?

    https://dailysceptic.org/2023/06/28/exclusive-three-typhoon-jets-landed-next-to-measuring-device-when-britains-record-temperature-of-40-3c-was-recorded/
    This is a fucking stupid article. As might be expected from that site which is by and for the fucking stupid.

    First, ambient temperature isn't affected by aircraft activity unless you're stood behind the exhaust.

    Second, the RAF monitor the temperature on the runway because it has an effect on engine performance, among other things, and therefore influences T/O and other performance calculations. It is directly contrary to their best interests (not losing aircraft and killing crew) to have an unrepresentative reading.
    Extra marks for the use of "the fact that", though.
    The fact that you highlighted the fact that they had used "the fact that" when explaining the fact that an aircraft had acknowledged the fact that gravity pulls down and thus experienced the fact of landing is a fact that impressed me.

    And that's a fact.

    :)
    A reassuringly fact based analysis.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,159

    Peck said:

    It's like in the USA: both major parties would stand a better chance of winning if they ditched their current leader. Sunak is more likely to go than Starmer, though, because of the Tories' stab stab stab culture where the leadership is concerned. Labour don't have anything like that.

    Except neither party really has anyone obviously better. So we lumber on.

    Meanwhile, The Star have got Rishi's number;


    It's not entirely fair (though it wasn't strictly essential to go to Scotland for a photo op), but politicians who can't cope with unfairness should find another career. And any attempt to justify will come across as peevish defensiveness, so best not to bother.
    An essentially quality for a modern PM is to have a sense of humour, and failing that, not to take yourself too seriously. Sunak unfortunately fails on both counts.
    Being PM just isn't for him.
    But that was so much more obviously true for the previous one and the one before that, and you could .and a strong case the one before that also.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,159
    Dura_Ace said:

    Andy_JS said:

    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    Weather looks on course for a proper u-turn from around the 10th August. Not before time.

    You really trust the weather forecast that far out? :lol:
    Last July I raised the possibility of 40C here, a fortnight before it happened and pretty much to the day. In the face of another poster promising to eat his hat. So, you know..
    What do you make of the fact that the 40 degree temperature was measured on an airfield just as fighter jets were landing?

    https://dailysceptic.org/2023/06/28/exclusive-three-typhoon-jets-landed-next-to-measuring-device-when-britains-record-temperature-of-40-3c-was-recorded/
    This is a fucking stupid article. As might be expected from that site which is by and for the fucking stupid.

    First, ambient temperature isn't affected by aircraft activity unless you're stood behind the exhaust.

    Second, the RAF monitor the temperature on the runway because it has an effect on engine performance, among other things, and therefore influences T/O and other performance calculations. It is directly contrary to their best interests (not losing aircraft and killing crew) to have an unrepresentative reading.
    And the planes were landing, so the engine would have been as close to off as it will go

    H
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,256
    Affordable housing: 'Invisible' renters earning £30k not eligible
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-66255727

    Earns too much for social housing, but perversely not enough for affordable housing - which was supposedly brought in to plug the gap when the Cameron government cut social housing funding.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,031
    edited August 2023
    kle4 said:

    Peck said:

    It's like in the USA: both major parties would stand a better chance of winning if they ditched their current leader. Sunak is more likely to go than Starmer, though, because of the Tories' stab stab stab culture where the leadership is concerned. Labour don't have anything like that.

    Except neither party really has anyone obviously better. So we lumber on.

    Meanwhile, The Star have got Rishi's number;


    It's not entirely fair (though it wasn't strictly essential to go to Scotland for a photo op), but politicians who can't cope with unfairness should find another career. And any attempt to justify will come across as peevish defensiveness, so best not to bother.
    I'm actually with the PM on this one, and feel it is a bit too 'mainstream' a complaint for the Star to run with, they are better when they are more creative, whilst complaining the head of government takes a plane (and a private one at that) rather than a train is more your standard, lame opposition line - and one that doesn't work since PMs would do it whatever party they are.

    williamglenn may have a point about taking himself too seriously, but we all know there is a line there, since the last but one PM was not serious enough (and he was capable of it).
    If I were the PM’s diary secretary, I’d be doing my best to avoid the helicopter. It reinforces existing negative stereotypes about him being very rich and out of touch. Stick to (scheduled) planes, trains, and automobiles, for domestic travel.

    Starmer probably won’t attack on it though, he knows he’ll face the same issues of logistics as PM. The rest of his party, and the media, on the other hand…
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,498
    What's wrong with that Costa ad? Why are people objecting to it?
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,398
    Nigelb said:

    Affordable housing: 'Invisible' renters earning £30k not eligible
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-66255727

    Earns too much for social housing, but perversely not enough for affordable housing - which was supposedly brought in to plug the gap when the Cameron government cut social housing funding.

    When I looked, the minimum income for a 1 bed shared ownership flat in a vaguely desirable part of London is about £50k. It is still a risky investment at this level when the unknowns about service charges associated with flats are factored in to the equation along with interest rates. A 2 bed is closer to £70-80k (income requirement). It is really housing for people that earn in excess of local income levels who don't have money for a deposit.

  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,031
    Dura_Ace said:

    Andy_JS said:

    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    Weather looks on course for a proper u-turn from around the 10th August. Not before time.

    You really trust the weather forecast that far out? :lol:
    Last July I raised the possibility of 40C here, a fortnight before it happened and pretty much to the day. In the face of another poster promising to eat his hat. So, you know..
    What do you make of the fact that the 40 degree temperature was measured on an airfield just as fighter jets were landing?

    https://dailysceptic.org/2023/06/28/exclusive-three-typhoon-jets-landed-next-to-measuring-device-when-britains-record-temperature-of-40-3c-was-recorded/
    This is a fucking stupid article. As might be expected from that site which is by and for the fucking stupid.

    First, ambient temperature isn't affected by aircraft activity unless you're stood behind the exhaust.

    Second, the RAF monitor the temperature on the runway because it has an effect on engine performance, among other things, and therefore influences T/O and other performance calculations. It is directly contrary to their best interests (not losing aircraft and killing crew) to have an unrepresentative reading.
    Well quite.

    An airfield is often going to be the hottest place in the locality, becuase it’s a large paved area that absorbs and then radiates heat. Many of the UK high temperature records came from Heathrow.

    As you say, the pilots really like knowing an accurate temperature for the air above the runway, as hot air is less dense and reduces engine performance on takeoff, and you don’t want the actual V1 speed to be achieved further down the runway than the pilot calculated it to be - because that’s how runway overruns happen!
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,398
    https://www.landlordzone.co.uk/news/government-is-afraid-epc-upgrades-will-be-final-straw-for-landlords-says-big-bank/

    The government appear to be starting to get rid of the 'green' policies they have imposed on the housing market, seeing the problems they have created in the private rented sector. I think it is too late though, many private landlords have resolved to exit already. The government have pandered to the zeitgeist and then created an enormous homelessness problem that can only be resolved by the next government building millions of Council houses at a vast cost (both in terms of building at £2500/sqm and the ongoing maintainence/management thereafter).
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,031
    Nigelb said:

    Incredibly, despite Trump's cash crunch, his Save America leadership PAC shelled out another $108,000 in the first six months of the year for Melania Trump's stylist, Herve Pierre Braillard, while insisting to the FEC that it's for 'strategy consulting'.
    https://twitter.com/rpyers/status/1686158398608310272

    Money well spent, she’s always impeccably turned out!
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,144
    edited August 2023
    The thing that stands out for me in the header is the barchart showing -65% net approval for "the government", with a shocking 79% dissaproval rating and only 14% approval. That is not a figure for a government re-election a little over a year out. We are not mid term any more, we are in lame duck territory.

    It looks too that Sunak is not that far off Truss like levels of unpopularity, albeit getting there rather more slowly.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,516
    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Incredibly, despite Trump's cash crunch, his Save America leadership PAC shelled out another $108,000 in the first six months of the year for Melania Trump's stylist, Herve Pierre Braillard, while insisting to the FEC that it's for 'strategy consulting'.
    https://twitter.com/rpyers/status/1686158398608310272

    Money well spent, she’s always impeccably turned out!
    I wonder what his hairdressing bill is ? Bound to be way more than $108k.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,516
    And here we are in August, where has the year gone ?
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,964
    Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. Brooke, same place all the other years have gone. I agree this year has flown by. The only one of recent times that didn't was 2020, when it seemed to drag on forever.
  • Private company makes private decision.
  • Desperately sad to read that Angus Cloud has passed away just age 25. Mental health is a killer, if you are struggling please get help, I know first hand how difficult it can be.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,655

    What's wrong with that Costa ad? Why are people objecting to it?

    It's exactly the same reason as when people object to drawings of women with comically large breasts*.

    * I.e., the kind of breasts that can only be achieved through surgery.
  • So glad I left Coutts.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,136
    darkage said:

    https://www.landlordzone.co.uk/news/government-is-afraid-epc-upgrades-will-be-final-straw-for-landlords-says-big-bank/

    The government appear to be starting to get rid of the 'green' policies they have imposed on the housing market, seeing the problems they have created in the private rented sector. I think it is too late though, many private landlords have resolved to exit already. The government have pandered to the zeitgeist and then created an enormous homelessness problem that can only be resolved by the next government building millions of Council houses at a vast cost (both in terms of building at £2500/sqm and the ongoing maintainence/management thereafter).

    It is of course excellent to bin green crap, but I don't think that it has caused our lack of decent housing - there was a crisis of housing affordability long before the government started greenwashing. We have the second least affordable homes of 35 countries surveyed here https://www.nationmaster.com/nmx/ranking/housing-affordability for instance because it is so difficult for the private sector to build.

    America has much lower housing costs per square foot despite higher incomes because in much of the country it is much easier to build new houses. Tellingly, the parts with NIMBY-friendly planning laws, like California and New York, are just as unaffordable as we are.

    Letting the private sector do its job and build houses people want to live in is the solution, not building lots of public housing (with what money exactly anyway?) that inevitably become slums almost immediately.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,655
    Fishing said:

    darkage said:

    https://www.landlordzone.co.uk/news/government-is-afraid-epc-upgrades-will-be-final-straw-for-landlords-says-big-bank/

    The government appear to be starting to get rid of the 'green' policies they have imposed on the housing market, seeing the problems they have created in the private rented sector. I think it is too late though, many private landlords have resolved to exit already. The government have pandered to the zeitgeist and then created an enormous homelessness problem that can only be resolved by the next government building millions of Council houses at a vast cost (both in terms of building at £2500/sqm and the ongoing maintainence/management thereafter).

    It is of course excellent to bin green crap, but I don't think that it has caused our lack of decent housing - there was a crisis of housing affordability long before the government started greenwashing. We have the second least affordable homes of 35 countries surveyed here https://www.nationmaster.com/nmx/ranking/housing-affordability for instance because it is so difficult for the private sector to build.

    America has much lower housing costs per square foot despite higher incomes because in much of the country it is much easier to build new houses. Tellingly, the parts with NIMBY-friendly planning laws, like California and New York, are just as unaffordable as we are.

    Letting the private sector do its job and build houses people want to live in is the solution, not building lots of public housing (with what money exactly anyway?) that inevitably become slums almost immediately.
    Also, homes are made of wood, so they are easy to put up (even if they don't last too long).
  • Taking Back Control. Good to see.

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,769
    rcs1000 said:

    Fishing said:

    darkage said:

    https://www.landlordzone.co.uk/news/government-is-afraid-epc-upgrades-will-be-final-straw-for-landlords-says-big-bank/

    The government appear to be starting to get rid of the 'green' policies they have imposed on the housing market, seeing the problems they have created in the private rented sector. I think it is too late though, many private landlords have resolved to exit already. The government have pandered to the zeitgeist and then created an enormous homelessness problem that can only be resolved by the next government building millions of Council houses at a vast cost (both in terms of building at £2500/sqm and the ongoing maintainence/management thereafter).

    It is of course excellent to bin green crap, but I don't think that it has caused our lack of decent housing - there was a crisis of housing affordability long before the government started greenwashing. We have the second least affordable homes of 35 countries surveyed here https://www.nationmaster.com/nmx/ranking/housing-affordability for instance because it is so difficult for the private sector to build.

    America has much lower housing costs per square foot despite higher incomes because in much of the country it is much easier to build new houses. Tellingly, the parts with NIMBY-friendly planning laws, like California and New York, are just as unaffordable as we are.

    Letting the private sector do its job and build houses people want to live in is the solution, not building lots of public housing (with what money exactly anyway?) that inevitably become slums almost immediately.
    Also, homes are made of wood, so they are easy to put up (even if they don't last too long).
    TBF, given the appalling quality of new builds in this country you wonder how many of them will last any length of time.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,031
    .
    rcs1000 said:

    Fishing said:

    darkage said:

    https://www.landlordzone.co.uk/news/government-is-afraid-epc-upgrades-will-be-final-straw-for-landlords-says-big-bank/

    The government appear to be starting to get rid of the 'green' policies they have imposed on the housing market, seeing the problems they have created in the private rented sector. I think it is too late though, many private landlords have resolved to exit already. The government have pandered to the zeitgeist and then created an enormous homelessness problem that can only be resolved by the next government building millions of Council houses at a vast cost (both in terms of building at £2500/sqm and the ongoing maintainence/management thereafter).

    It is of course excellent to bin green crap, but I don't think that it has caused our lack of decent housing - there was a crisis of housing affordability long before the government started greenwashing. We have the second least affordable homes of 35 countries surveyed here https://www.nationmaster.com/nmx/ranking/housing-affordability for instance because it is so difficult for the private sector to build.

    America has much lower housing costs per square foot despite higher incomes because in much of the country it is much easier to build new houses. Tellingly, the parts with NIMBY-friendly planning laws, like California and New York, are just as unaffordable as we are.

    Letting the private sector do its job and build houses people want to live in is the solution, not building lots of public housing (with what money exactly anyway?) that inevitably become slums almost immediately.
    Also, homes are made of wood, so they are easy to put up (even if they don't last too long).
    One change the UK government could make, is to oversee a scheme to underwrite warranties on homes of alternative construction, which would make them mortgageable. Several companies building factory-assembled modular homes have struggled to get off the ground, because banks won’t touch them.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,148
    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Fishing said:

    darkage said:

    https://www.landlordzone.co.uk/news/government-is-afraid-epc-upgrades-will-be-final-straw-for-landlords-says-big-bank/

    The government appear to be starting to get rid of the 'green' policies they have imposed on the housing market, seeing the problems they have created in the private rented sector. I think it is too late though, many private landlords have resolved to exit already. The government have pandered to the zeitgeist and then created an enormous homelessness problem that can only be resolved by the next government building millions of Council houses at a vast cost (both in terms of building at £2500/sqm and the ongoing maintainence/management thereafter).

    It is of course excellent to bin green crap, but I don't think that it has caused our lack of decent housing - there was a crisis of housing affordability long before the government started greenwashing. We have the second least affordable homes of 35 countries surveyed here https://www.nationmaster.com/nmx/ranking/housing-affordability for instance because it is so difficult for the private sector to build.

    America has much lower housing costs per square foot despite higher incomes because in much of the country it is much easier to build new houses. Tellingly, the parts with NIMBY-friendly planning laws, like California and New York, are just as unaffordable as we are.

    Letting the private sector do its job and build houses people want to live in is the solution, not building lots of public housing (with what money exactly anyway?) that inevitably become slums almost immediately.
    Also, homes are made of wood, so they are easy to put up (even if they don't last too long).
    TBF, given the appalling quality of new builds in this country you wonder how many of them will last any length of time.
    The other advantage of wooden houses, is that they weigh less than a duck, of course.

    https://youtu.be/_lu5_5Od7WY
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,106

    Taking Back Control. Good to see.

    Another Brexit Bonus.

    We get to comply with "rules imposed by Brussels" with no say in their formulation.

    AWESOME !!!
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,031
    Scott_xP said:

    Taking Back Control. Good to see.

    Another Brexit Bonus.

    We get to comply with "rules imposed by Brussels" with no say in their formulation.

    AWESOME !!!
    That Tweeter is arguing for even more rules to be imposed by Brussels, with no say in their formation.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,769

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Fishing said:

    darkage said:

    https://www.landlordzone.co.uk/news/government-is-afraid-epc-upgrades-will-be-final-straw-for-landlords-says-big-bank/

    The government appear to be starting to get rid of the 'green' policies they have imposed on the housing market, seeing the problems they have created in the private rented sector. I think it is too late though, many private landlords have resolved to exit already. The government have pandered to the zeitgeist and then created an enormous homelessness problem that can only be resolved by the next government building millions of Council houses at a vast cost (both in terms of building at £2500/sqm and the ongoing maintainence/management thereafter).

    It is of course excellent to bin green crap, but I don't think that it has caused our lack of decent housing - there was a crisis of housing affordability long before the government started greenwashing. We have the second least affordable homes of 35 countries surveyed here https://www.nationmaster.com/nmx/ranking/housing-affordability for instance because it is so difficult for the private sector to build.

    America has much lower housing costs per square foot despite higher incomes because in much of the country it is much easier to build new houses. Tellingly, the parts with NIMBY-friendly planning laws, like California and New York, are just as unaffordable as we are.

    Letting the private sector do its job and build houses people want to live in is the solution, not building lots of public housing (with what money exactly anyway?) that inevitably become slums almost immediately.
    Also, homes are made of wood, so they are easy to put up (even if they don't last too long).
    TBF, given the appalling quality of new builds in this country you wonder how many of them will last any length of time.
    The other advantage of wooden houses, is that they weigh less than a duck, of course.

    https://youtu.be/_lu5_5Od7WY
    Fair cop.

    (Isn't it 'the same as' rather than 'less?')
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,031
    Not a fan of banning things, but there’s now six house fire deaths attributed to cheap Chinese electric bikes and scooters with exploding batteries.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12358515/E-bike-battery-blew-killed-mother-four-minutes-started-charging-experts-warn-six-fires-week-caused-batteries-e-scooters-bikes-explode-TERRIFYING-force.html

    As we discussed last week, many of the e-bikes should legally be classified as motor scooters because of their power.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,505
    kle4 said:

    Peck said:

    It's like in the USA: both major parties would stand a better chance of winning if they ditched their current leader. Sunak is more likely to go than Starmer, though, because of the Tories' stab stab stab culture where the leadership is concerned. Labour don't have anything like that.

    Except neither party really has anyone obviously better. So we lumber on.

    Meanwhile, The Star have got Rishi's number;


    It's not entirely fair (though it wasn't strictly essential to go to Scotland for a photo op), but politicians who can't cope with unfairness should find another career. And any attempt to justify will come across as peevish defensiveness, so best not to bother.
    I'm actually with the PM on this one, and feel it is a bit too 'mainstream' a complaint for the Star to run with, they are better when they are more creative, whilst complaining the head of government takes a plane (and a private one at that) rather than a train is more your standard, lame opposition line - and one that doesn't work since PMs would do it whatever party they are.

    williamglenn may have a point about taking himself too seriously, but we all know there is a line there, since the last but one PM was not serious enough (and he was capable of it).
    He is a tin eared arsehole and has no need to have private helicoptors/planes everywhere, especially this one which was purely for press photographs. An arrogant out of touch unelected arsehole, worse than Johnson who was just a bumbling fool. This clown is a nasty petty little whining rat.
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,049
    Sandpit said:

    Not a fan of banning things, but there’s now six house fire deaths attributed to cheap Chinese electric bikes and scooters with exploding batteries.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12358515/E-bike-battery-blew-killed-mother-four-minutes-started-charging-experts-warn-six-fires-week-caused-batteries-e-scooters-bikes-explode-TERRIFYING-force.html

    As we discussed last week, many of the e-bikes should legally be classified as motor scooters because of their power.

    Surely it is not a case of banning, merely imposing a minimum standard ?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,106
    Sandpit said:

    That Tweeter is arguing for even more rules to be imposed by Brussels, with no say in their formation.

    An inevitable consequence of Brexit


  • TazTaz Posts: 15,049

    So glad I left Coutts.
    So glad I decided to go with Lloyds rather than Coutts when I started banking.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,144
    I see the Nationwide house price index is down 3.8% over last July. Add in inflation and that is a real terms 15% drop.

    Though the slump in demand is affecting building supply firms as less building going on:

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/jul/31/building-supplier-marshalls-to-axe-further-250-jobs-amid-uk-housebuilding-slump
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,148
    Sandpit said:

    Not a fan of banning things, but there’s now six house fire deaths attributed to cheap Chinese electric bikes and scooters with exploding batteries.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12358515/E-bike-battery-blew-killed-mother-four-minutes-started-charging-experts-warn-six-fires-week-caused-batteries-e-scooters-bikes-explode-TERRIFYING-force.html

    As we discussed last week, many of the e-bikes should legally be classified as motor scooters because of their power.

    The E-bike industry is speed running through the problems that the electric car industry went through.

    You remember the “classified as a 4 wheel bike” cars that were lethal to their occupants? Or the discovery that cheap, shit batteries tend to bust into flames?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,505

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Incredibly, despite Trump's cash crunch, his Save America leadership PAC shelled out another $108,000 in the first six months of the year for Melania Trump's stylist, Herve Pierre Braillard, while insisting to the FEC that it's for 'strategy consulting'.
    https://twitter.com/rpyers/status/1686158398608310272

    Money well spent, she’s always impeccably turned out!
    I wonder what his hairdressing bill is ? Bound to be way more than $108k.
    Makes Fabricant almost look normal
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,769
    malcolmg said:

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Incredibly, despite Trump's cash crunch, his Save America leadership PAC shelled out another $108,000 in the first six months of the year for Melania Trump's stylist, Herve Pierre Braillard, while insisting to the FEC that it's for 'strategy consulting'.
    https://twitter.com/rpyers/status/1686158398608310272

    Money well spent, she’s always impeccably turned out!
    I wonder what his hairdressing bill is ? Bound to be way more than $108k.
    Makes Fabricant almost look normal
    Now wait a second, that's going a bit far.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,031

    Sandpit said:

    Not a fan of banning things, but there’s now six house fire deaths attributed to cheap Chinese electric bikes and scooters with exploding batteries.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12358515/E-bike-battery-blew-killed-mother-four-minutes-started-charging-experts-warn-six-fires-week-caused-batteries-e-scooters-bikes-explode-TERRIFYING-force.html

    As we discussed last week, many of the e-bikes should legally be classified as motor scooters because of their power.

    The E-bike industry is speed running through the problems that the electric car industry went through.

    You remember the “classified as a 4 wheel bike” cars that were lethal to their occupants? Or the discovery that cheap, shit batteries tend to bust into flames?
    Over here, we see both Western branded and Chinese e-bikes and scooters, often sold in the same shops! They look almost identical from the outside, but one is four or five times the price of the other. Look closely and you see slightly different materials, but the battery itself is the biggest cost item, and the cheap one is going to be a big gamble. The chargers are likely to be quite different as well.

    UK law is actually remarkably lenient on small-volume motor vehicles. You can road-register a self-built Caterham, a Polaris ATV, a three-wheeled Morgan etc, none of which come close to the safety standards required of a proper car. Ask Andrew Flintoff about the latter.

    The more powerful e-bikes should be required to be registered, the riders wear a proper helmet, and carry 3rd party insurance. The Chinese ones need to be banned from import or sale altogether, they don’t comply with any reasonable safety standard. You’re never going to stop the @Dura_Ace of this world, who will build themselves something dodgy, but getting rid of the ones that cause house fires out of the shops is a good starting point.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,246
    Miklosvar said:

    FF43 said:

    Miklosvar said:

    Miklosvar said:

    EPG said:

    Leon said:

    Costa are doubling-down on their top surgery mural:

    A @CostaCoffee spokesman: “The mural, in its entirety, showcases and celebrates inclusivity…to encourage people to feel welcomed, free and unashamedly proud to be themselves”.

    https://twitter.com/jamesesses/status/1686108572474593280

    My god. That is mentally diseased
    Wait until you hear about tattoos and piercings.
    What immensely witty and amusing parallel are you actually asserting between those entirely superficial procedures, and mastectomy?

    Sorry to sound dim.
    A lot of people with mastectomies is because of either having or at major risk of having breast cancer.

    Should they be ashamed of having had a mastectomy in order to stay alive?

    Tattoos and piercings are certainly far less necessary.
    Yes, but I think Costa are celebrating mastectomy for gender dysphoria.
    Presumably the purpose of that surgery is to no longer draw attention to your breasts, so the Costa mural maybe has a slight logic fail. Not at all bothered by it however.

    I notice the man who was so outraged in the quoted tweet claims to be "Commentator and Co-founder of Thoughtful Therapists. Focusing on the impact of ideology on society." And appears to have no self awareness.
    I think the objection is probably about the girls who are persuaded to have their breasts cut off, and later regret it. If you are not at all bothered by that, kudos for zen imperturbability.
    If I thought for a second Costa supported that, I would be bothered.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    This is fascinating if you like a bit of obscure history. The 14th century cathedral of Kamanets Podolskiy has a really weird circular tower right next to the main building

    It looks so odd because it’s actually a minaret. The cathedral was a mosque from 1672-99. I had no idea the Ottoman Empire got this far north

    The Virgin Mary has now been placed on top. To show what’s what


  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,914
    Sandpit said:

    Not a fan of banning things, but there’s now six house fire deaths attributed to cheap Chinese electric bikes and scooters with exploding batteries.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12358515/E-bike-battery-blew-killed-mother-four-minutes-started-charging-experts-warn-six-fires-week-caused-batteries-e-scooters-bikes-explode-TERRIFYING-force.html

    As we discussed last week, many of the e-bikes should legally be classified as motor scooters because of their power.

    Aren't there safety standards that these should be subject to? Are the safety standards not strong enough, or are they not being enforced?
  • MiklosvarMiklosvar Posts: 1,855

    What's wrong with that Costa ad? Why are people objecting to it?

    I think it's the difficulty in getting from

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/cf857796-01ec-11ee-b730-2607a18701aa?shareToken=68a3b230cf94fb25cf9b634b52fb46de

    "When Ritchie Herron woke after gender reassignment surgery, he had a feeling he had made a terrible mistake.

    Five years later, his scars still sometimes weep and he cannot walk long distances or ride a bike. “I’ve awakened from what was a mental health crisis, to a body that will be for ever changed and damaged,” he said. He no longer identifies as transgender and is living as a gay man “as best I can, given what has happened”."

    to Oooh I fancy a decaf cappuccino with sprinkles.
  • 148grss148grss Posts: 4,155

    Interesting to see that at least one person has read "The Marching Morons". Recently.

    Which reminds me of the conclusion that the "Freakonomics"people came to some years ago: As I recall, they concluded that a drop in crime in the US had been caused by legalized abortion. And I think the Notorious RBG once said something supporting that conclusion. Somthing like we only kill the bad ones.

    Whether or not you agree with that conclusion, I hope you will agree with me that that kind of thinking is, well, more than a little creepy. Not necessarily false, but creepy.

    (For the record: I haven't looked at the study. But I found the positive reactions to it troubling. Especially since a disproportionate number of abortions in the US (30%?) are performed on black mothers.)

    I've started listening to the podcast "This Book Kills" that looks into the pop sci books you find in airports / the worst books of the last 50 years. Freakonomics is one of those - they do an interesting review of the stats and such.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,769
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Not a fan of banning things, but there’s now six house fire deaths attributed to cheap Chinese electric bikes and scooters with exploding batteries.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12358515/E-bike-battery-blew-killed-mother-four-minutes-started-charging-experts-warn-six-fires-week-caused-batteries-e-scooters-bikes-explode-TERRIFYING-force.html

    As we discussed last week, many of the e-bikes should legally be classified as motor scooters because of their power.

    The E-bike industry is speed running through the problems that the electric car industry went through.

    You remember the “classified as a 4 wheel bike” cars that were lethal to their occupants? Or the discovery that cheap, shit batteries tend to bust into flames?
    Over here, we see both Western branded and Chinese e-bikes and scooters, often sold in the same shops! They look almost identical from the outside, but one is four or five times the price of the other. Look closely and you see slightly different materials, but the battery itself is the biggest cost item, and the cheap one is going to be a big gamble. The chargers are likely to be quite different as well.

    UK law is actually remarkably lenient on small-volume motor vehicles. You can road-register a self-built Caterham, a Polaris ATV, a three-wheeled Morgan etc, none of which come close to the safety standards required of a proper car. Ask Andrew Flintoff about the latter.

    The more powerful e-bikes should be required to be registered, the riders wear a proper helmet, and carry 3rd party insurance. The Chinese ones need to be banned from import or sale altogether, they don’t comply with any reasonable safety standard. You’re never going to stop the @Dura_Ace of this world, who will build themselves something dodgy, but getting rid of the ones that cause house fires out of the shops is a good starting point.
    They *are* so required, but unfortunately nobody is enforcing the rules.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,769
    Leon said:

    This is fascinating if you like a bit of obscure history. The 14th century cathedral of Kamanets Podolskiy has a really weird circular tower right next to the main building

    It looks so odd because it’s actually a minaret. The cathedral was a mosque from 1672-99. I had no idea the Ottoman Empire got this far north

    The Virgin Mary has now been placed on top. To show what’s what


    Swapsies for the Hagia Sophia?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,032

    Sandpit said:

    Not a fan of banning things, but there’s now six house fire deaths attributed to cheap Chinese electric bikes and scooters with exploding batteries.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12358515/E-bike-battery-blew-killed-mother-four-minutes-started-charging-experts-warn-six-fires-week-caused-batteries-e-scooters-bikes-explode-TERRIFYING-force.html

    As we discussed last week, many of the e-bikes should legally be classified as motor scooters because of their power.

    Aren't there safety standards that these should be subject to? Are the safety standards not strong enough, or are they not being enforced?
    I think the problem is that the makers self certify that the bike is safe at the moment but that clearly will not do.
  • 148grss148grss Posts: 4,155
    Miklosvar said:

    What's wrong with that Costa ad? Why are people objecting to it?

    I think it's the difficulty in getting from

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/cf857796-01ec-11ee-b730-2607a18701aa?shareToken=68a3b230cf94fb25cf9b634b52fb46de

    "When Ritchie Herron woke after gender reassignment surgery, he had a feeling he had made a terrible mistake.

    Five years later, his scars still sometimes weep and he cannot walk long distances or ride a bike. “I’ve awakened from what was a mental health crisis, to a body that will be for ever changed and damaged,” he said. He no longer identifies as transgender and is living as a gay man “as best I can, given what has happened”."

    to Oooh I fancy a decaf cappuccino with sprinkles.
    Regret rates for gender affirming care (depending on the study) are between 1% - 5%.

    Compare this to the 12% of parents who regret having children, the 6% - 30% who regret knee surgery, and the 63% of people with small tattoos who regret getting them. If any medical treatment had that regret rate, it would be a marvel.

    Do some people regret getting gender affirming treatment - yes, and they should be supported. But it is a tiny minority.

    When I see that advert I just think of friends I know, like if they had someone in a wheelchair I'd think of the friends I know who need a wheelchair and not the illness or situation that led them to needing it.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,144
    Miklosvar said:

    What's wrong with that Costa ad? Why are people objecting to it?

    I think it's the difficulty in getting from

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/cf857796-01ec-11ee-b730-2607a18701aa?shareToken=68a3b230cf94fb25cf9b634b52fb46de

    "When Ritchie Herron woke after gender reassignment surgery, he had a feeling he had made a terrible mistake.

    Five years later, his scars still sometimes weep and he cannot walk long distances or ride a bike. “I’ve awakened from what was a mental health crisis, to a body that will be for ever changed and damaged,” he said. He no longer identifies as transgender and is living as a gay man “as best I can, given what has happened”."

    to Oooh I fancy a decaf cappuccino with sprinkles.
    Though on the other hand:

    https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/hsph-in-the-news/mental-health-benefits-associated-with-gender-affirming-surgery/

    Which just shows that careful psychological assessment should be an essential precursor to life altering treatments.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,031
    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Not a fan of banning things, but there’s now six house fire deaths attributed to cheap Chinese electric bikes and scooters with exploding batteries.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12358515/E-bike-battery-blew-killed-mother-four-minutes-started-charging-experts-warn-six-fires-week-caused-batteries-e-scooters-bikes-explode-TERRIFYING-force.html

    As we discussed last week, many of the e-bikes should legally be classified as motor scooters because of their power.

    The E-bike industry is speed running through the problems that the electric car industry went through.

    You remember the “classified as a 4 wheel bike” cars that were lethal to their occupants? Or the discovery that cheap, shit batteries tend to bust into flames?
    Over here, we see both Western branded and Chinese e-bikes and scooters, often sold in the same shops! They look almost identical from the outside, but one is four or five times the price of the other. Look closely and you see slightly different materials, but the battery itself is the biggest cost item, and the cheap one is going to be a big gamble. The chargers are likely to be quite different as well.

    UK law is actually remarkably lenient on small-volume motor vehicles. You can road-register a self-built Caterham, a Polaris ATV, a three-wheeled Morgan etc, none of which come close to the safety standards required of a proper car. Ask Andrew Flintoff about the latter.

    The more powerful e-bikes should be required to be registered, the riders wear a proper helmet, and carry 3rd party insurance. The Chinese ones need to be banned from import or sale altogether, they don’t comply with any reasonable safety standard. You’re never going to stop the @Dura_Ace of this world, who will build themselves something dodgy, but getting rid of the ones that cause house fires out of the shops is a good starting point.
    They *are* so required, but unfortunately nobody is enforcing the rules.
    Car dealers would go to prison for letting unregistered vehicles leave their premises permanently, unless there was export paperwork to accompany them. Need to start putting bike dealers in prison too, ignorance of the law being no excuse etc. I also suspect that most of these e-bikes don’t meet the construction standards required of a motorbike, and that most of the dealers in them have no experience is road-registration, being pushbike shops rather than motorbike dealers.
  • MiklosvarMiklosvar Posts: 1,855
    Foxy said:

    Miklosvar said:

    What's wrong with that Costa ad? Why are people objecting to it?

    I think it's the difficulty in getting from

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/cf857796-01ec-11ee-b730-2607a18701aa?shareToken=68a3b230cf94fb25cf9b634b52fb46de

    "When Ritchie Herron woke after gender reassignment surgery, he had a feeling he had made a terrible mistake.

    Five years later, his scars still sometimes weep and he cannot walk long distances or ride a bike. “I’ve awakened from what was a mental health crisis, to a body that will be for ever changed and damaged,” he said. He no longer identifies as transgender and is living as a gay man “as best I can, given what has happened”."

    to Oooh I fancy a decaf cappuccino with sprinkles.
    Though on the other hand:

    https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/hsph-in-the-news/mental-health-benefits-associated-with-gender-affirming-surgery/

    Which just shows that careful psychological assessment should be an essential precursor to life altering treatments.
    It's the trivialisation that grates. Fitting a colostomy bag is a life-saving surgery with, at a guess, many fewer patients subsequently regretting the procedure, so why not have a cartoon of one of those?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,148

    Sandpit said:

    Not a fan of banning things, but there’s now six house fire deaths attributed to cheap Chinese electric bikes and scooters with exploding batteries.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12358515/E-bike-battery-blew-killed-mother-four-minutes-started-charging-experts-warn-six-fires-week-caused-batteries-e-scooters-bikes-explode-TERRIFYING-force.html

    As we discussed last week, many of the e-bikes should legally be classified as motor scooters because of their power.

    Aren't there safety standards that these should be subject to? Are the safety standards not strong enough, or are they not being enforced?
    Not enforced.

    One wonders how long before someone utilises the power of a stack of those cheap batteries as a weapon. Incendiary bomb…

    As to the power thing. The biggest problem (at the moment) is not illegal ready built bikes. But modding kits.

    I watched the other day, in my local park, as some young gentlemen converted a pedal bike from a kit they had bought. They took one of those mountain bikes with tires that literally look like moped tires and half an hour later were riding around and pulling wheelies.

    Often the kits are full of legal disclaimers - you are building a powerful bike that needs registering etc.

    So you have a frame that is not designed to cope with the power, inadequate brakes, steering dynamics etc etc.

    Another issue is that even with e-bikes under the power limits, the acceleration is intense. This leads to people losing control.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,049
    I'm not sure I would have placed that Costa ad as being post op transgender man it looks like shading for abs and pecs. Has Costa confirmed the intent (a quick google seemed to suggest yes).
  • 148grss148grss Posts: 4,155
    Leon said:

    Miklosvar said:

    What's wrong with that Costa ad? Why are people objecting to it?

    I think it's the difficulty in getting from

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/cf857796-01ec-11ee-b730-2607a18701aa?shareToken=68a3b230cf94fb25cf9b634b52fb46de

    "When Ritchie Herron woke after gender reassignment surgery, he had a feeling he had made a terrible mistake.

    Five years later, his scars still sometimes weep and he cannot walk long distances or ride a bike. “I’ve awakened from what was a mental health crisis, to a body that will be for ever changed and damaged,” he said. He no longer identifies as transgender and is living as a gay man “as best I can, given what has happened”."

    to Oooh I fancy a decaf cappuccino with sprinkles.
    It is grotesque

    Any girl who is so gender dysphoric they have both their healthy breasts removed is a deeply unhappy person with a major mental disorder. No matter what you think about the trans issue, that is the case. The surgery is severe and often has
    unwanted and lifelong complications - pain and infection and much else

    This is not to thing to be chirpily celebrated. With a damn cartoon. Like it’s all frivolous and great and amusing and “nothing more than a tattoo”

    If someone voluntarily has female genital mutilation on religious grounds would they put up an “inclusive” cartoon about that next to the frappucinnos?
    There is a higher regret rate of breast implants than there is for gender affirming care - with higher rates of lifelong complications with greater severity. Using your criteria, therefore, any model who has had breast implants should be replaced with someone who either hasn't had implants or has had a mastectomy - if the real reason these things shouldn't be "celebrated" is because of regret and impact.

    Hell, more people regret having children and people's children cause many negative things to happen in their lives - so no families in advertising any more. The divorce rate is half - no married couples in adverts; we really shouldn't celebrate something so painful for individuals that breaks up families and traumatises children like the failed system that is marriage.

    Do you see how ridiculous this argument is?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,498
    Miklosvar said:

    What's wrong with that Costa ad? Why are people objecting to it?

    I think it's the difficulty in getting from

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/cf857796-01ec-11ee-b730-2607a18701aa?shareToken=68a3b230cf94fb25cf9b634b52fb46de

    "When Ritchie Herron woke after gender reassignment surgery, he had a feeling he had made a terrible mistake.

    Five years later, his scars still sometimes weep and he cannot walk long distances or ride a bike. “I’ve awakened from what was a mental health crisis, to a body that will be for ever changed and damaged,” he said. He no longer identifies as transgender and is living as a gay man “as best I can, given what has happened”."

    to Oooh I fancy a decaf cappuccino with sprinkles.
    Yes, and there are many others for whom gender reassignment surgery had been positive and life-affirming.

    As an example, lots of people have breast enlargements and regret it later. Or people who get tattoos they later regret. Should people with breast enlargements or tattoos not be depicted or celebrated publicly because of that?

    TBH, when I first saw the image I thought: "Ah, mastectomy after male breast cancer."
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    This is fascinating if you like a bit of obscure history. The 14th century cathedral of Kamanets Podolskiy has a really weird circular tower right next to the main building

    It looks so odd because it’s actually a minaret. The cathedral was a mosque from 1672-99. I had no idea the Ottoman Empire got this far north

    The Virgin Mary has now been placed on top. To show what’s what


    Swapsies for the Hagia Sophia?
    To be fair we mutilated the beautiful mezquita at Cordoba, by inserting a garish church in the middle of the sublime Islamic columns
  • ROFL I distinctly remember posting here when this UK regulatory mark stuff first came out and I said it would be prohibitively expensive, pointless and wouldn't ever happen.

    Shock horror it hasn't.

    What organisation is going to choose to diverge their goods within the UK market only? It makes literally zero sense.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,031
    That’s good news. Well done to the crews of these ships for taking the risk, and let’s hope that they successfully get out with their cargoes.

    Good work from the Romanian and Turkish navies, and various NATO air forces involved as well.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,144
    Miklosvar said:

    Foxy said:

    Miklosvar said:

    What's wrong with that Costa ad? Why are people objecting to it?

    I think it's the difficulty in getting from

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/cf857796-01ec-11ee-b730-2607a18701aa?shareToken=68a3b230cf94fb25cf9b634b52fb46de

    "When Ritchie Herron woke after gender reassignment surgery, he had a feeling he had made a terrible mistake.

    Five years later, his scars still sometimes weep and he cannot walk long distances or ride a bike. “I’ve awakened from what was a mental health crisis, to a body that will be for ever changed and damaged,” he said. He no longer identifies as transgender and is living as a gay man “as best I can, given what has happened”."

    to Oooh I fancy a decaf cappuccino with sprinkles.
    Though on the other hand:

    https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/hsph-in-the-news/mental-health-benefits-associated-with-gender-affirming-surgery/

    Which just shows that careful psychological assessment should be an essential precursor to life altering treatments.
    It's the trivialisation that grates. Fitting a colostomy bag is a life-saving surgery with, at a guess, many fewer patients subsequently regretting the procedure, so why not have a cartoon of one of those?
    My experience of Trans-men is that they generally try to "pass" unobtrusively, and usually do so, so would generally wear a t shirt than go bare chested, so the cartoon doesn't ring true to me.

    Not that I get too excited by these silly season stories. I an neither more nor less likely to buy something from Costa as a result.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,987
    FF43 said:

    Peck said:

    It's like in the USA: both major parties would stand a better chance of winning if they ditched their current leader. Sunak is more likely to go than Starmer, though, because of the Tories' stab stab stab culture where the leadership is concerned. Labour don't have anything like that.

    Except neither party really has anyone obviously better. So we lumber on.

    Meanwhile, The Star have got Rishi's number;


    It's not entirely fair (though it wasn't strictly essential to go to Scotland for a photo op), but politicians who can't cope with unfairness should find another career. And any attempt to justify will come across as peevish defensiveness, so best not to bother.
    An essentially quality for a modern PM is to have a sense of humour, and failing that, not to take yourself too seriously. Sunak unfortunately fails on both counts.
    Really successful political leaders in my experience have no sense of humour at all. See Thatcher and Blair. SoH is for losers.
    Reagan and Clinton had a sense of humour and were the most successful Presidents of my lifetime.

    Blair and Cameron did to a degree, Boris certainly did. Thatcher admittedly didn't
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,246
    edited August 2023
    Leaving aside the Farage nonsense, this is a good discussion of the actual problem of people not having access to bank accounts.

    https://twitter.com/RichardJMurphy/status/1685915779441856512

    About 2% don't have a current account, mostly because they don't want one, but a quarter of the unbanked do. My view is the problem should be relatively easy to fix if big banks improve their provision of basic bank accounts, which they are obliged to provide.
  • 148grss148grss Posts: 4,155
    Miklosvar said:

    Foxy said:

    Miklosvar said:

    What's wrong with that Costa ad? Why are people objecting to it?

    I think it's the difficulty in getting from

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/cf857796-01ec-11ee-b730-2607a18701aa?shareToken=68a3b230cf94fb25cf9b634b52fb46de

    "When Ritchie Herron woke after gender reassignment surgery, he had a feeling he had made a terrible mistake.

    Five years later, his scars still sometimes weep and he cannot walk long distances or ride a bike. “I’ve awakened from what was a mental health crisis, to a body that will be for ever changed and damaged,” he said. He no longer identifies as transgender and is living as a gay man “as best I can, given what has happened”."

    to Oooh I fancy a decaf cappuccino with sprinkles.
    Though on the other hand:

    https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/hsph-in-the-news/mental-health-benefits-associated-with-gender-affirming-surgery/

    Which just shows that careful psychological assessment should be an essential precursor to life altering treatments.
    It's the trivialisation that grates. Fitting a colostomy bag is a life-saving surgery with, at a guess, many fewer patients subsequently regretting the procedure, so why not have a cartoon of one of those?
    Regret rate for gender affirming care is between 1% - 5%; this is ridiculously low for medicine. For ciswomen, those who get mastectomies for cancer is around 20%. Should no post cancer women with mastectomies be present in any advertising due to this?

    The reason you "at a guess" assume more people regret gender affirming care than other medical things like colostomy bags (which I can't find a decent study on) is just that, "a guess" - and false.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    TOPPING said:

    I'm not sure I would have placed that Costa ad as being post op transgender man it looks like shading for abs and pecs. Has Costa confirmed the intent (a quick google seemed to suggest yes).

    Yes they have
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    Right, I’m going to see Stephen Bathory’s Tower

    Yes, one of THOSE Bathorys - for anyone acquainted with the Gothic horrors of east European history
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,900

    kle4 said:

    I am beginning to think Rishi will be more upset at losing the next election than people think. I mean, the family is rich enough he never needed politics anyway, and it also means he won't derive as much benefit from being vastly overpaid on the speech circuit like Boris and May, or even Truss getting some gigs. Not that they all did it for the money, of course not, but their need for a living even though mostly well off is on another level to Rishi.

    I disagree. What could he do in business that his father in law hasn’t done better? He became PM on his own.

    It’s the one sphere where he has achieved something himself
    With no help whatsoever from his expensive schooling or his wife's money, undoubtedly.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,393
    edited August 2023
    FF43 said:

    Leaving aside the Farage nonsense, this is a good discussion of the actual problem of people not having access to bank accounts.

    https://twitter.com/RichardJMurphy/status/1685915779441856512

    About 2% don't have a current account, mostly because they don't want one, but a quarter of the unbanked do. My view is the problem should be a relatively easy to fix if big banks improve their provision of basic bank accounts, which they are obliged to provide.
    My understanding is that banks are obliged to provide BBAs - but not to everyone who rolls up and asks for one. There's a difference, no? Or is that wrong?

    And unlike water, they are not monopolies, so cannot be forced to take customers, at least at present.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,987
    Leon said:

    This is fascinating if you like a bit of obscure history. The 14th century cathedral of Kamanets Podolskiy has a really weird circular tower right next to the main building

    It looks so odd because it’s actually a minaret. The cathedral was a mosque from 1672-99. I had no idea the Ottoman Empire got this far north

    The Virgin Mary has now been placed on top. To show what’s what


    The 17th century was peak Ottoman Empire, they even got as far as Vienna
  • Good news about dropping the UKCA stupidity. If nothing else it was woefully inaccurate - when it comes to standards and customs there is no UK...
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,106

    kle4 said:

    I am beginning to think Rishi will be more upset at losing the next election than people think. I mean, the family is rich enough he never needed politics anyway, and it also means he won't derive as much benefit from being vastly overpaid on the speech circuit like Boris and May, or even Truss getting some gigs. Not that they all did it for the money, of course not, but their need for a living even though mostly well off is on another level to Rishi.

    I disagree. What could he do in business that his father in law hasn’t done better? He became PM on his own.

    It’s the one sphere where he has achieved something himself
    He was beaten by a woman who was beaten by a lettuce.

    If Truss hadn't imploded he would be no more successful than Michael Portillo
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,049
    Interesting - re Costa.

    imo it is just a societal cultural overshoot whereby such depictions at first shock (some people) and then mainstream is moved slightly so no "shock ads" are required and society becomes more diverse and inclusive.

    On those terms it is a well done to Costa situation. Were their coffee not so gopping I might go and have a decaf Americano (leave room). But it is so I won't.

    Plus coffee these days at those places is at the very least three quid a pop which is the greater scandal.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,032
    Sandpit said:

    That’s good news. Well done to the crews of these ships for taking the risk, and let’s hope that they successfully get out with their cargoes.

    Good work from the Romanian and Turkish navies, and various NATO air forces involved as well.
    Did they risk being uninsured? That was really the key to this.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,106

    Good news about dropping the UKCA stupidity. If nothing else it was woefully inaccurate - when it comes to standards and customs there is no UK...

    Of course it hasn't been "dropped". That would be a "betrayal of Brexit"

    It has just not been implemented.

    Indefinitely...
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,987

    kle4 said:

    I am beginning to think Rishi will be more upset at losing the next election than people think. I mean, the family is rich enough he never needed politics anyway, and it also means he won't derive as much benefit from being vastly overpaid on the speech circuit like Boris and May, or even Truss getting some gigs. Not that they all did it for the money, of course not, but their need for a living even though mostly well off is on another level to Rishi.

    I disagree. What could he do in business that his father in law hasn’t done better? He became PM on his own.

    It’s the one sphere where he has achieved something himself
    He got into Oxford himself, a first himself and Goldman Sachs himself.

    Though yes even Thatcher and Blair on the lecture circuit never made anywhere near the combined net wealth of the Sunak's so Rishi certainly doesn't need to be a long serving PM for the money on the lecture circuit that brings
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,987
    Scott_xP said:

    kle4 said:

    I am beginning to think Rishi will be more upset at losing the next election than people think. I mean, the family is rich enough he never needed politics anyway, and it also means he won't derive as much benefit from being vastly overpaid on the speech circuit like Boris and May, or even Truss getting some gigs. Not that they all did it for the money, of course not, but their need for a living even though mostly well off is on another level to Rishi.

    I disagree. What could he do in business that his father in law hasn’t done better? He became PM on his own.

    It’s the one sphere where he has achieved something himself
    He was beaten by a woman who was beaten by a lettuce.

    If Truss hadn't imploded he would be no more successful than Michael Portillo
    Portillo does good TV shows on railways and travel
  • Scott_xP said:

    Good news about dropping the UKCA stupidity. If nothing else it was woefully inaccurate - when it comes to standards and customs there is no UK...

    Of course it hasn't been "dropped". That would be a "betrayal of Brexit"

    It has just not been implemented.

    Indefinitely...
    We continue to be pushed along by the EU standards train. We're uncoupled, we're no longer taking inputs from them. But we're buffered up in front and they are driving.
  • MiklosvarMiklosvar Posts: 1,855
    148grss said:

    Miklosvar said:

    Foxy said:

    Miklosvar said:

    What's wrong with that Costa ad? Why are people objecting to it?

    I think it's the difficulty in getting from

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/cf857796-01ec-11ee-b730-2607a18701aa?shareToken=68a3b230cf94fb25cf9b634b52fb46de

    "When Ritchie Herron woke after gender reassignment surgery, he had a feeling he had made a terrible mistake.

    Five years later, his scars still sometimes weep and he cannot walk long distances or ride a bike. “I’ve awakened from what was a mental health crisis, to a body that will be for ever changed and damaged,” he said. He no longer identifies as transgender and is living as a gay man “as best I can, given what has happened”."

    to Oooh I fancy a decaf cappuccino with sprinkles.
    Though on the other hand:

    https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/hsph-in-the-news/mental-health-benefits-associated-with-gender-affirming-surgery/

    Which just shows that careful psychological assessment should be an essential precursor to life altering treatments.
    It's the trivialisation that grates. Fitting a colostomy bag is a life-saving surgery with, at a guess, many fewer patients subsequently regretting the procedure, so why not have a cartoon of one of those?
    Regret rate for gender affirming care is between 1% - 5%; this is ridiculously low for medicine. For ciswomen, those who get mastectomies for cancer is around 20%. Should no post cancer women with mastectomies be present in any advertising due to this?

    The reason you "at a guess" assume more people regret gender affirming care than other medical things like colostomy bags (which I can't find a decent study on) is just that, "a guess" - and false.
    Have a good long think about the reason you can't find a decent study.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,106

    Scott_xP said:

    Good news about dropping the UKCA stupidity. If nothing else it was woefully inaccurate - when it comes to standards and customs there is no UK...

    Of course it hasn't been "dropped". That would be a "betrayal of Brexit"

    It has just not been implemented.

    Indefinitely...
    We continue to be pushed along by the EU standards train. We're uncoupled, we're no longer taking inputs from them. But we're buffered up in front and they are driving.
    So glad we Took Back Control. Imagine how bad that would be if we didn't have all that Sovereignty to compensate...
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,246
    Carnyx said:

    FF43 said:

    Leaving aside the Farage nonsense, this is a good discussion of the actual problem of people not having access to bank accounts.

    https://twitter.com/RichardJMurphy/status/1685915779441856512

    About 2% don't have a current account, mostly because they don't want one, but a quarter of the unbanked do. My view is the problem should be a relatively easy to fix if big banks improve their provision of basic bank accounts, which they are obliged to provide.
    My understanding is that banks are obliged to provide BBAs - but not to everyone who rolls up and asks for one. There's a difference, no? Or is that wrong?

    And unlike water, they are not monopolies, so cannot be forced to take customers, at least at present.
    AFAIK, they can only refuse you a basic account for limited specific reasons, eg

    - you can’t provide proof of ID or address
    - you could get another account, for example a standard current account
    - you refuse a credit check – although you don’t have to pass one
    - they think you’ll use the account unlawfully or fraudulently
    - you’re threatening, abusive or violent towards staff.

    https://www.moneyhelper.org.uk/en/everyday-money/banking/basic-bank-accounts

    The big problem appears to be a lack of awareness of basic bank accounts. Banks don't like them, so don't promote them. Some people find it hard to provide the required proofs of IDs.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    TOPPING said:

    Interesting - re Costa.

    imo it is just a societal cultural overshoot whereby such depictions at first shock (some people) and then mainstream is moved slightly so no "shock ads" are required and society becomes more diverse and inclusive.

    On those terms it is a well done to Costa situation. Were their coffee not so gopping I might go and have a decaf Americano (leave room). But it is so I won't.

    Plus coffee these days at those places is at the very least three quid a pop which is the greater scandal.

    Costa Coffee would have had cartoons celebrating the forcible sterilisation of “retarded and promiscuous” poor women in the 1920s, when THAT was all the rage amongst The Woke Liberal Left

    The lefties who are convinced they are on the progressive side of history should look at that example, and shudder
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591
    viewcode said:

    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    Prediction: Costa Coffee will be hastily back-pedalling by tomorrow

    “On reflection we think this campaign, while well meaning, has been counter productive and blah blah blah”

    Eh, there's like a million Costa's out there, what are people going to do, avoid them? Sure, there are alternatives, but do they really need a PR team when ubiquity is the key?
    Um I'm confused. Town centres are wall-to-wall coffee shops, vape shops and charity shops, occasionally enlivened by something useful. If one wants to avoid Costas, finding an alternative would involve a long trek of about ten feet.

    Or you could join a library, many of which have little coffee shops. Although the opening hours are rather arbitrary, tbh.

    My point was that there are alternatives but you will come across a Costa every 10 feet, and so are you really going to bother specifically seeking out another - it wouldn't be hard, but it would be constant and annoying to do so.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591
    Nigelb said:

    Incredibly, despite Trump's cash crunch, his Save America leadership PAC shelled out another $108,000 in the first six months of the year for Melania Trump's stylist, Herve Pierre Braillard, while insisting to the FEC that it's for 'strategy consulting'.
    https://twitter.com/rpyers/status/1686158398608310272

    Billionaires can be really cheap bastards.
  • 148grss148grss Posts: 4,155
    Miklosvar said:

    148grss said:

    Miklosvar said:

    Foxy said:

    Miklosvar said:

    What's wrong with that Costa ad? Why are people objecting to it?

    I think it's the difficulty in getting from

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/cf857796-01ec-11ee-b730-2607a18701aa?shareToken=68a3b230cf94fb25cf9b634b52fb46de

    "When Ritchie Herron woke after gender reassignment surgery, he had a feeling he had made a terrible mistake.

    Five years later, his scars still sometimes weep and he cannot walk long distances or ride a bike. “I’ve awakened from what was a mental health crisis, to a body that will be for ever changed and damaged,” he said. He no longer identifies as transgender and is living as a gay man “as best I can, given what has happened”."

    to Oooh I fancy a decaf cappuccino with sprinkles.
    Though on the other hand:

    https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/hsph-in-the-news/mental-health-benefits-associated-with-gender-affirming-surgery/

    Which just shows that careful psychological assessment should be an essential precursor to life altering treatments.
    It's the trivialisation that grates. Fitting a colostomy bag is a life-saving surgery with, at a guess, many fewer patients subsequently regretting the procedure, so why not have a cartoon of one of those?
    Regret rate for gender affirming care is between 1% - 5%; this is ridiculously low for medicine. For ciswomen, those who get mastectomies for cancer is around 20%. Should no post cancer women with mastectomies be present in any advertising due to this?

    The reason you "at a guess" assume more people regret gender affirming care than other medical things like colostomy bags (which I can't find a decent study on) is just that, "a guess" - and false.
    Have a good long think about the reason you can't find a decent study.
    I mean, I've found lots of anecdotal evidence of regret through a quick google - although I have found reversal rates (under 50 years old 80%, over 70s 30%) but that may just be about willingness to undergo a serious procedure rather than regret specifically. I assume the reason for a lack of decent studies is that colostomies are considered more of a necessity in high risk illnesses - but I still don't know if the regret rate will be lower that 5%.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,031
    DavidL said:

    Sandpit said:

    That’s good news. Well done to the crews of these ships for taking the risk, and let’s hope that they successfully get out with their cargoes.

    Good work from the Romanian and Turkish navies, and various NATO air forces involved as well.
    Did they risk being uninsured? That was really the key to this.
    Ah, goood question. Can’t say I know too much about marine insurance, but someone (apart from the crews themselves) must have agreed to take the risk that the Russian threats were not a bluff.

    Perhaps the scale of the military support operation was agreed in advance, as a test of a process they intend to repeat through the summer?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,049
    edited August 2023
    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Interesting - re Costa.

    imo it is just a societal cultural overshoot whereby such depictions at first shock (some people) and then mainstream is moved slightly so no "shock ads" are required and society becomes more diverse and inclusive.

    On those terms it is a well done to Costa situation. Were their coffee not so gopping I might go and have a decaf Americano (leave room). But it is so I won't.

    Plus coffee these days at those places is at the very least three quid a pop which is the greater scandal.

    Costa Coffee would have had cartoons celebrating the forcible sterilisation of “retarded and promiscuous” poor women in the 1920s, when THAT was all the rage amongst The Woke Liberal Left

    The lefties who are convinced they are on the progressive side of history should look at that example, and shudder
    Nah. It's like ads for cars. No one is saying a 6-yr old can go out and buy a Nissan Qashqai. Transgenderism is a thing. At the same time, as we saw from GIDS, it is a hugely sensitive and difficult area that so far society hasn't handled particularly well.

    As you note, there are severe mental health implications even if someone is absolutely sure they are the wrong gender because that is "abnormal" where not wanting to switch genders is normal.

    So with all the provisos that people with gender dysphoria should get the right support and help then there is no issue with an advert portraying someone who has made that decision.

    Because you can't, surely, deny that there is a significant number of people who are genuinely gender dysphoric and those people have a right to live in society in a normal way and be accepted as such.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,223
    Portugal around 9/1 to beat the USA. From I can see, they look the much better team and the Americans are clinging on for a draw.
  • 148grss148grss Posts: 4,155
    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Interesting - re Costa.

    imo it is just a societal cultural overshoot whereby such depictions at first shock (some people) and then mainstream is moved slightly so no "shock ads" are required and society becomes more diverse and inclusive.

    On those terms it is a well done to Costa situation. Were their coffee not so gopping I might go and have a decaf Americano (leave room). But it is so I won't.

    Plus coffee these days at those places is at the very least three quid a pop which is the greater scandal.

    Costa Coffee would have had cartoons celebrating the forcible sterilisation of “retarded and promiscuous” poor women in the 1920s, when THAT was all the rage amongst The Woke Liberal Left

    The lefties who are convinced they are on the progressive side of history should look at that example, and shudder
    Comparing a medical procedure that was done to people against their will to a medical procedure that people often have to fight for is very lazy. These are not the same things.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,498
    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    Sandpit said:

    That’s good news. Well done to the crews of these ships for taking the risk, and let’s hope that they successfully get out with their cargoes.

    Good work from the Romanian and Turkish navies, and various NATO air forces involved as well.
    Did they risk being uninsured? That was really the key to this.
    Ah, goood question. Can’t say I know too much about marine insurance, but someone (apart from the crews themselves) must have agreed to take the risk that the Russian threats were not a bluff.

    Perhaps the scale of the military support operation was agreed in advance, as a test of a process they intend to repeat through the summer?
    Note that it was also to a small Danube port AIUI, and one that cannot export a lot of grain (esp. if Russia keeps on trying to blat the loading facilities).

    And that latter point is something anyone even vaguely pro-Russian or Russia-sympathetic has to answer: how is Russia trying to stop grain exports, threaten shipping, and damage facilities and stored grain, make them anything other than vile sh*ts?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,148
    TOPPING said:

    Interesting - re Costa.

    imo it is just a societal cultural overshoot whereby such depictions at first shock (some people) and then mainstream is moved slightly so no "shock ads" are required and society becomes more diverse and inclusive.

    On those terms it is a well done to Costa situation. Were their coffee not so gopping I might go and have a decaf Americano (leave room). But it is so I won't.

    Plus coffee these days at those places is at the very least three quid a pop which is the greater scandal.

    The three quid is paying for the staff, the building, utilities. The coffee is kinda an extra.

  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,049
    And also look at the (much bemoaned) ads for everything from paint stripper to bathroom tiles. Every family is inevitably mixed race. Are there really that many such mixed race families in the UK? Unlikely, but via advertising such couples are being "normalised" so that for example someone doesn't come up to you (as happened to a white friend of mine) in a pub in Canning Town and hit you with a hammer because your wife is black.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 23,156
    FF43 said:

    Carnyx said:

    FF43 said:

    Leaving aside the Farage nonsense, this is a good discussion of the actual problem of people not having access to bank accounts.

    https://twitter.com/RichardJMurphy/status/1685915779441856512

    About 2% don't have a current account, mostly because they don't want one, but a quarter of the unbanked do. My view is the problem should be a relatively easy to fix if big banks improve their provision of basic bank accounts, which they are obliged to provide.
    My understanding is that banks are obliged to provide BBAs - but not to everyone who rolls up and asks for one. There's a difference, no? Or is that wrong?

    And unlike water, they are not monopolies, so cannot be forced to take customers, at least at present.
    AFAIK, they can only refuse you a basic account for limited specific reasons, eg

    - you can’t provide proof of ID or address
    - you could get another account, for example a standard current account
    - you refuse a credit check – although you don’t have to pass one
    - they think you’ll use the account unlawfully or fraudulently
    - you’re threatening, abusive or violent towards staff.

    https://www.moneyhelper.org.uk/en/everyday-money/banking/basic-bank-accounts

    The big problem appears to be a lack of awareness of basic bank accounts. Banks don't like them, so don't promote them. Some people find it hard to provide the required proofs of IDs.
    Natwest reject half the applications. Doesn't sound very limited to me.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,031
    tlg86 said:

    Portugal around 9/1 to beat the USA. From I can see, they look the much better team and the Americans are clinging on for a draw.

    What sport is this?
This discussion has been closed.