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Punters think the Tories will lose ALL the July by-elections – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,607
edited July 2023 in General
imagePunters think the Tories will lose ALL the July by-elections – politicalbetting.com

We are only nine days away from the July 20th by-elections where the Tories are defending three seats. Mid-Bedfordshire, as we have noted several times, might never happen because the Tory incumbent, Nadine Dorries, has yet to resign.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,350
    First, like libel lawyers
  • MiklosvarMiklosvar Posts: 1,855
    Punters are right
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,470
    How long before the amol rajan interview?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,902
    80%for lab in Selby seems too certain I think
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 74,666
    Farooq said:

    Theuniondivvie said:

    Farooq said:

    Andy_JS said:

    New article in the Spectator.

    "America’s fierce guilt for slavery is understandable – we mustn’t import it
    Sean Thomas"

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/americas-fierce-guilt-for-slavery-is-understandable-we-mustnt-import-it/

    Not today, Satan
    Guess what Satan's home is an anagram of?
    Is it "Byronic"?
    Sean to a T.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,163
    Gretchen Whitmer is 100 to be Dem candidate.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,794
    Farooq said:

    This thread is now over

    Or so Heathener told me
    It’s only just started!
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,902
    It must have been a nervy morning at The Sun offices, but the champers must be flowing there now
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,470
    Pulpstar said:

    It must have been a nervy morning at The Sun offices, but the champers must be flowing there now

    Owen Jones is trying to do an amusing reverse ferret.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 56,130
    edited July 2023
    Farooq said:

    This thread is now over

    Or so Heathener told me
    {panto chorus mode}

    Oh, no, it’s not!
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,314
    Pulpstar said:

    It must have been a nervy morning at The Sun offices, but the champers must be flowing there now

    They must feel like running this front page:

    image
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,163
    Andrew Haslam-Jones
    @andrewhj
    In any event, the BBC has now confirmed the identity of the accused presenter to this second, unrelated, complainant and anyone familiar with their case… Not good.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,470
    edited July 2023
    rottenborough said:

    Andrew Haslam-Jones
    @andrewhj
    In any event, the BBC has now confirmed the identity of the accused presenter to this second, unrelated, complainant and anyone familiar with their case… Not good.

    Huh?
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,784
    Somerton looks absolutely nailed on for the LDs. Unusually for a by-electon, it's a seat that the LDs held in the recent past - for 18 years until 2015 in fact. So the massive national anti-Tory swing will clearly coalesce tactically behind them, just as it did before. The Conservatives are also starting with only 55% of the vote, a relatively low bar, and only 10% ahead of the combined LD, Lab and Green vote in 2019. Then there's the disgraceful conduct of the sitting Tory MP which led to the by-election in the first place. In contrast to Uxbridge, there are no real local issues which might complicate things.
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,350
    williamglenn said:

    Pulpstar said:

    It must have been a nervy morning at The Sun offices, but the champers must be flowing there now

    They must feel like running this front page:

    image
    We've sunk *another* Argentinian ship?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,795
    Pulpstar said:

    It must have been a nervy morning at The Sun offices, but the champers must be flowing there now

    Why? I might be missing something but fail to see how the second complainant proves the veracity of the mother's testimony. The first relationship might still have been perfectly legal.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 79,830
    Malmesbury said:

    Farooq said:

    This thread is now over

    Or so Heathener told me
    {panto chorus mode}

    Oh, no, it’s not!
    Is this a meta comment on the BBC story ?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 33,427
    Anabobazina said:

    Pulpstar said:

    It must have been a nervy morning at The Sun offices, but the champers must be flowing there now

    Why? I might be missing something but fail to see how the second complainant proves the veracity of the mother's testimony. The first relationship might still have been perfectly legal.
    This is all such trivial bollocks.

    One could be forgiven for thinking it is a Conservative Party owned BBC's attempt to smokescreen mortgage rates hitting 6.66% That's right 666!
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 79,830
    It's official - Zuckerberg's Threads is real competition for Musk:

    I’m going to be honest with you

    I hate Threads even more than Twitter
    https://twitter.com/oryxspioenkop/status/1678788217011683328
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 15,436
    Post Office scandal, Tory MPs censured by Commons, lots of other bad news getting squeezed out.
  • Twickbait_55Twickbait_55 Posts: 128
    Somerton & Frome seems an almost dead cert' for the Lib-Dems, as does Mid Beds when Mad Nads finally does the decent thing (if ever). Uxbridge looks like a narrow Lab take, possibly Selby too, although that looks much closer. We also have Rutherglen likely to fall, a definite Lab win in the offing.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 19,314
    Anabobazina said:

    Pulpstar said:

    It must have been a nervy morning at The Sun offices, but the champers must be flowing there now

    Why? I might be missing something but fail to see how the second complainant proves the veracity of the mother's testimony. The first relationship might still have been perfectly legal.
    Depends what you think the story is.

    If it's "X is a wrongun in ways that are too awful to describe in a family newspaper", it works as corroboration.

    If it's "X has done something illegal", it fails, but since when have red tops worried about such niceties?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 66,295
    Mexicanpete said:

    Anabobazina said:

    Pulpstar said:

    It must have been a nervy morning at The Sun offices, but the champers must be flowing there now

    Why? I might be missing something but fail to see how the second complainant proves the veracity of the mother's testimony. The first relationship might still have been perfectly legal.
    This is all such trivial bollocks.

    One could be forgiven for thinking it is a Conservative Party owned BBC's attempt to smokescreen mortgage rates hitting 6.66% That's right 666!
    You sound a wee bit like @Heathener, and I doubt it is trivia to the parents or the second complainant today or indeed the BBC

  • Twickbait_55Twickbait_55 Posts: 128
    Of course there's also Tamworth looking to be a likely upcoming by-election. Lab looks good for this one.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,180
    rottenborough said:

    Andrew Haslam-Jones
    @andrewhj
    In any event, the BBC has now confirmed the identity of the accused presenter to this second, unrelated, complainant and anyone familiar with their case… Not good.

    Qué?!?!?!
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,795
    Mexicanpete said:

    Anabobazina said:

    Pulpstar said:

    It must have been a nervy morning at The Sun offices, but the champers must be flowing there now

    Why? I might be missing something but fail to see how the second complainant proves the veracity of the mother's testimony. The first relationship might still have been perfectly legal.
    This is all such trivial bollocks.

    One could be forgiven for thinking it is a Conservative Party owned BBC's attempt to smokescreen mortgage rates hitting 6.66% That's right 666!
    Indeed. The number of the beast.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 11,394
    BBC showing Just Stop Oil how it's done. How many days is this now?

    They're going to have to block Heathrow's runways or take out an oil depot next.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 79,830
    bondegezou said:

    Post Office scandal, Tory MPs censured by Commons, lots of other bad news getting squeezed out.

    Yesterday's news about the Nottingham maternity unit scandal, where many babies may have died, got virtually no notice.
    https://news.sky.com/story/nottingham-maternity-scandal-set-to-be-biggest-in-nhs-as-disregarded-families-demand-apology-12918737

    News priorities are ridiculous (or if you're conspiratorially minded, run for government convenience).
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 32,081
    Stuartinromford said:

    Anabobazina said:

    Pulpstar said:

    It must have been a nervy morning at The Sun offices, but the champers must be flowing there now

    Why? I might be missing something but fail to see how the second complainant proves the veracity of the mother's testimony. The first relationship might still have been perfectly legal.
    Depends what you think the story is.

    If it's "X is a wrongun in ways that are too awful to describe in a family newspaper", it works as corroboration.

    If it's "X has done something illegal", it fails, but since when have red tops worried about such niceties?
    The BBC has confirmed that the second complaint is about the same person as the first complaint.

    That might have been damn stupid of them. Suppose I'm a journalist and think it is Basil Brush. In order to confirm my suspicion, I put in a spurious complaint about Mr Brush. If the BBC then tells the world that my complaint and the first complaint are about the same person, then we know Basil Brush sent £35,000 to some 17-20yo crackhead.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 79,830
    edited July 2023
    All the President's Men...

    From Mike Pence to ‘fake’ electors, here’s who has testified to the January 6 grand jury or met with prosecutors
    https://edition.cnn.com/2023/07/11/politics/grand-jury-testimony-list-january-6-trump/index.htm
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 33,427
    edited July 2023
    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Mexicanpete said:

    Anabobazina said:

    Pulpstar said:

    It must have been a nervy morning at The Sun offices, but the champers must be flowing there now

    Why? I might be missing something but fail to see how the second complainant proves the veracity of the mother's testimony. The first relationship might still have been perfectly legal.
    This is all such trivial bollocks.

    One could be forgiven for thinking it is a Conservative Party owned BBC's attempt to smokescreen mortgage rates hitting 6.66% That's right 666!
    You sound a wee bit like @Heathener, and I doubt it is trivia to the parents or the second complainant today or indeed the BBC

    With all due respect you seem to be wrapping yourself up in this salacious nonsense.

    There is nothing I have read that suggests this is anything, so far at least, other than anti BBC propaganda whipped up by the Murdoch press. Up in arms about the allegation that a 17 year old produced unedifying images of themselves and all this when the Sun spent decades publishing photographs of naked 16 year old girls. Whatever the offence caused by the presenter, the double standard from the Sun is beyond contempt.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 32,081
    felix said:

    rottenborough said:

    Andrew Haslam-Jones
    @andrewhj
    In any event, the BBC has now confirmed the identity of the accused presenter to this second, unrelated, complainant and anyone familiar with their case… Not good.

    Qué?!?!?!
    What I said in response to Stuartinromford re Basil Brush.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 46,464
    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    Stuartinromford said:

    Anabobazina said:

    Pulpstar said:

    It must have been a nervy morning at The Sun offices, but the champers must be flowing there now

    Why? I might be missing something but fail to see how the second complainant proves the veracity of the mother's testimony. The first relationship might still have been perfectly legal.
    Depends what you think the story is.

    If it's "X is a wrongun in ways that are too awful to describe in a family newspaper", it works as corroboration.

    If it's "X has done something illegal", it fails, but since when have red tops worried about such niceties?
    The BBC has confirmed that the second complaint is about the same person as the first complaint.

    That might have been damn stupid of them. Suppose I'm a journalist and think it is Basil Brush. In order to confirm my suspicion, I put in a spurious complaint about Mr Brush. If the BBC then tells the world that my complaint and the first complaint are about the same person, then we know Basil Brush sent £35,000 to some 17-20yo crackhead.
    Brush? He does seem to be lying low. But let's not get Mike into trouble.
  • MiklosvarMiklosvar Posts: 1,855
    rottenborough said:

    Andrew Haslam-Jones
    @andrewhj
    In any event, the BBC has now confirmed the identity of the accused presenter to this second, unrelated, complainant and anyone familiar with their case… Not good.

    AHJ seems to be an amiable twit, a Sir Bufton Tufton lib dem. Why does this tweet deserve the oxygen of publicity?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,163
    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    Stuartinromford said:

    Anabobazina said:

    Pulpstar said:

    It must have been a nervy morning at The Sun offices, but the champers must be flowing there now

    Why? I might be missing something but fail to see how the second complainant proves the veracity of the mother's testimony. The first relationship might still have been perfectly legal.
    Depends what you think the story is.

    If it's "X is a wrongun in ways that are too awful to describe in a family newspaper", it works as corroboration.

    If it's "X has done something illegal", it fails, but since when have red tops worried about such niceties?
    The BBC has confirmed that the second complaint is about the same person as the first complaint.

    That might have been damn stupid of them. Suppose I'm a journalist and think it is Basil Brush. In order to confirm my suspicion, I put in a spurious complaint about Mr Brush. If the BBC then tells the world that my complaint and the first complaint are about the same person, then we know Basil Brush sent £35,000 to some 17-20yo crackhead.
    PB lawyers: Can you libel a hand puppet?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 56,130
    A
    Nigelb said:

    Malmesbury said:

    Farooq said:

    This thread is now over

    Or so Heathener told me
    {panto chorus mode}

    Oh, no, it’s not!
    Is this a meta comment on the BBC story ?
    {panto chorus mode}

    Oh, no, it isn’t!
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,163
    Eabhal said:

    BBC showing Just Stop Oil how it's done. How many days is this now?

    They're going to have to block Heathrow's runways or take out an oil depot next.

    It's all come far too early to block out the four by-election losses for Sunak though.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,163
    Nigelb said:

    bondegezou said:

    Post Office scandal, Tory MPs censured by Commons, lots of other bad news getting squeezed out.

    Yesterday's news about the Nottingham maternity unit scandal, where many babies may have died, got virtually no notice.
    https://news.sky.com/story/nottingham-maternity-scandal-set-to-be-biggest-in-nhs-as-disregarded-families-demand-apology-12918737

    News priorities are ridiculous (or if you're conspiratorially minded, run for government convenience).
    It was pretty high up on the BBC 10 news last night and lead item on local news here in E Mids.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 46,431
    IanB2 said:

    Experienced the Norwegian health service today, dropping in to their A&E because of a troublesome ear infection that hasn’t responded to over-the-counter stuff. My, was it impressive. More than anything it reminded me of the NHS we were supposed to be getting according to that Leave Campaign ad. More staff than patients, clean modern facilities, seen within ten minutes, blood test, doctor inspection, out within 45 minutes with a prescription, all for a £17 fee, the same that Norwegians pay, as my EHIC card hasn’t quite yet expired. Remarkable.

    Earlier I did another of Clarkson’s world’s best drives, over the Trollstigen, although it was so cloudy you could hardly see anything. But it was a fun drive.

    Since it’s grey and wet today, here’s a photo of a small lake from yesterday, dog for scale.


    I'm glad you had a good experience, and I hope you recover soon.

    But... when I stupidly broke my elbow in the arse-end of nowhere, Scotland, eight years ago, the GP and hospital service were first class. Really excellent. And that, IMO, is one of the NHS's biggest problems: the service is so incredibly spotty.

    And as I said earlier today, the problem is the bad experiences stick longer in your mind than the good.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 56,130
    Nigelb said:

    bondegezou said:

    Post Office scandal, Tory MPs censured by Commons, lots of other bad news getting squeezed out.

    Yesterday's news about the Nottingham maternity unit scandal, where many babies may have died, got virtually no notice.
    https://news.sky.com/story/nottingham-maternity-scandal-set-to-be-biggest-in-nhs-as-disregarded-families-demand-apology-12918737

    News priorities are ridiculous (or if you're conspiratorially minded, run for government convenience).
    News priorities are ridiculous.

    They always have been.

    Hence message grids, good days to bury bad news etc.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,122
    rottenborough said:

    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    Stuartinromford said:

    Anabobazina said:

    Pulpstar said:

    It must have been a nervy morning at The Sun offices, but the champers must be flowing there now

    Why? I might be missing something but fail to see how the second complainant proves the veracity of the mother's testimony. The first relationship might still have been perfectly legal.
    Depends what you think the story is.

    If it's "X is a wrongun in ways that are too awful to describe in a family newspaper", it works as corroboration.

    If it's "X has done something illegal", it fails, but since when have red tops worried about such niceties?
    The BBC has confirmed that the second complaint is about the same person as the first complaint.

    That might have been damn stupid of them. Suppose I'm a journalist and think it is Basil Brush. In order to confirm my suspicion, I put in a spurious complaint about Mr Brush. If the BBC then tells the world that my complaint and the first complaint are about the same person, then we know Basil Brush sent £35,000 to some 17-20yo crackhead.
    PB lawyers: Can you libel a hand puppet?
    Ha ha ha.







    BOOM! BOOM!
  • boulayboulay Posts: 6,716
    rottenborough said:

    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    Stuartinromford said:

    Anabobazina said:

    Pulpstar said:

    It must have been a nervy morning at The Sun offices, but the champers must be flowing there now

    Why? I might be missing something but fail to see how the second complainant proves the veracity of the mother's testimony. The first relationship might still have been perfectly legal.
    Depends what you think the story is.

    If it's "X is a wrongun in ways that are too awful to describe in a family newspaper", it works as corroboration.

    If it's "X has done something illegal", it fails, but since when have red tops worried about such niceties?
    The BBC has confirmed that the second complaint is about the same person as the first complaint.

    That might have been damn stupid of them. Suppose I'm a journalist and think it is Basil Brush. In order to confirm my suspicion, I put in a spurious complaint about Mr Brush. If the BBC then tells the world that my complaint and the first complaint are about the same person, then we know Basil Brush sent £35,000 to some 17-20yo crackhead.
    PB lawyers: Can you libel a hand puppet?
    The hand puppet community must be having serious worries about their world. First Emu gets away with pushing Rod Hull off a roof, then Gordon the Gopher’s bestie gets caught up in a scandal and now Basil Brush. Can you imagine what’s going on round Matthew Corbett’s place with Sooty and Sweep eyeing each other over the kitchen table suspiciously.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 66,295
    Mexicanpete said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Mexicanpete said:

    Anabobazina said:

    Pulpstar said:

    It must have been a nervy morning at The Sun offices, but the champers must be flowing there now

    Why? I might be missing something but fail to see how the second complainant proves the veracity of the mother's testimony. The first relationship might still have been perfectly legal.
    This is all such trivial bollocks.

    One could be forgiven for thinking it is a Conservative Party owned BBC's attempt to smokescreen mortgage rates hitting 6.66% That's right 666!
    You sound a wee bit like @Heathener, and I doubt it is trivia to the parents or the second complainant today or indeed the BBC

    With all due respect you seem to be wrapping yourself up in this salacious nonsense.

    There is nothing I have read that suggests this is anything, so far at least, other than anti BBC propaganda whipped up by the Murdoch press. Up in arms about the allegation that a 17 year old produced unedifying images of themselves and all this when the Sun spent decades published photographs of naked 16 year old girls. Whatever the offence caused by the presenter, the double standard from the Sun is beyond contempt.
    Many on here are reporting this crisis for the BBC and you clearly are only believing what you want to believe and downplaying the allegations

    Your suggestion I am wrapping myself up in this salacious nonsense is nonsense itself

    The whole media are involved in reporting this story and in everything I have said I have cautioned to wait and see how this develops not least to @Heathener this morning who also attempted to close this down
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,722
    edited July 2023
    rottenborough said:

    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    Stuartinromford said:

    Anabobazina said:

    Pulpstar said:

    It must have been a nervy morning at The Sun offices, but the champers must be flowing there now

    Why? I might be missing something but fail to see how the second complainant proves the veracity of the mother's testimony. The first relationship might still have been perfectly legal.
    Depends what you think the story is.

    If it's "X is a wrongun in ways that are too awful to describe in a family newspaper", it works as corroboration.

    If it's "X has done something illegal", it fails, but since when have red tops worried about such niceties?
    The BBC has confirmed that the second complaint is about the same person as the first complaint.

    That might have been damn stupid of them. Suppose I'm a journalist and think it is Basil Brush. In order to confirm my suspicion, I put in a spurious complaint about Mr Brush. If the BBC then tells the world that my complaint and the first complaint are about the same person, then we know Basil Brush sent £35,000 to some 17-20yo crackhead.
    PB lawyers: Can you libel a hand puppet?
    IANAL. But Captain Pugwash springs to mind. Seaman Staines and Roger the C. B. and all that.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 74,666
    Sandpit said:

    rottenborough said:

    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    Stuartinromford said:

    Anabobazina said:

    Pulpstar said:

    It must have been a nervy morning at The Sun offices, but the champers must be flowing there now

    Why? I might be missing something but fail to see how the second complainant proves the veracity of the mother's testimony. The first relationship might still have been perfectly legal.
    Depends what you think the story is.

    If it's "X is a wrongun in ways that are too awful to describe in a family newspaper", it works as corroboration.

    If it's "X has done something illegal", it fails, but since when have red tops worried about such niceties?
    The BBC has confirmed that the second complaint is about the same person as the first complaint.

    That might have been damn stupid of them. Suppose I'm a journalist and think it is Basil Brush. In order to confirm my suspicion, I put in a spurious complaint about Mr Brush. If the BBC then tells the world that my complaint and the first complaint are about the same person, then we know Basil Brush sent £35,000 to some 17-20yo crackhead.
    PB lawyers: Can you libel a hand puppet?
    Ha ha ha.







    BOOM! BOOM!
    Rottenborough would go pher asking questions like that.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 32,081
    Nigelb said:

    All the President's Men...

    From Mike Pence to ‘fake’ electors, here’s who has testified to the January 6 grand jury or met with prosecutors
    https://edition.cnn.com/2023/07/11/politics/grand-jury-testimony-list-january-6-trump/index.htm

    Link broken for moi.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,470
    edited July 2023
    I still find it very interesting how the NYT story about the Guardian / FT only got a brief mention in the Telegraph and nothing more. There were serious allegations in both behaviour of the guardian journalist, but just as much so that the FT management killed any attempt to report it.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,784
    kinabalu said:

    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    Stuartinromford said:

    Anabobazina said:

    Pulpstar said:

    It must have been a nervy morning at The Sun offices, but the champers must be flowing there now

    Why? I might be missing something but fail to see how the second complainant proves the veracity of the mother's testimony. The first relationship might still have been perfectly legal.
    Depends what you think the story is.

    If it's "X is a wrongun in ways that are too awful to describe in a family newspaper", it works as corroboration.

    If it's "X has done something illegal", it fails, but since when have red tops worried about such niceties?
    The BBC has confirmed that the second complaint is about the same person as the first complaint.

    That might have been damn stupid of them. Suppose I'm a journalist and think it is Basil Brush. In order to confirm my suspicion, I put in a spurious complaint about Mr Brush. If the BBC then tells the world that my complaint and the first complaint are about the same person, then we know Basil Brush sent £35,000 to some 17-20yo crackhead.
    Brush? He does seem to be lying low. But let's not get Mike into trouble.
    The Beeb truly is a den of iniquity.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,722
    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Mexicanpete said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Mexicanpete said:

    Anabobazina said:

    Pulpstar said:

    It must have been a nervy morning at The Sun offices, but the champers must be flowing there now

    Why? I might be missing something but fail to see how the second complainant proves the veracity of the mother's testimony. The first relationship might still have been perfectly legal.
    This is all such trivial bollocks.

    One could be forgiven for thinking it is a Conservative Party owned BBC's attempt to smokescreen mortgage rates hitting 6.66% That's right 666!
    You sound a wee bit like @Heathener, and I doubt it is trivia to the parents or the second complainant today or indeed the BBC

    With all due respect you seem to be wrapping yourself up in this salacious nonsense.

    There is nothing I have read that suggests this is anything, so far at least, other than anti BBC propaganda whipped up by the Murdoch press. Up in arms about the allegation that a 17 year old produced unedifying images of themselves and all this when the Sun spent decades published photographs of naked 16 year old girls. Whatever the offence caused by the presenter, the double standard from the Sun is beyond contempt.
    Many on here are reporting this crisis for the BBC and you clearly are only believing what you want to believe and downplaying the allegations

    Your suggestion I am wrapping myself up in this salacious nonsense is nonsense itself

    The whole media are involved in reporting this story and in everything I have said I have cautioned to wait and see how this develops not least to @Heathener this morning who also attempted to close this down
    Nothing like a bit of Tory-approved BBC-bashing, eh, BigG?
  • GarethoftheVale2GarethoftheVale2 Posts: 2,351
    "It is hard to dispute the current betting odds"

    The Somerton betting odds above add up to 110%...
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 56,130
    A
    Carnyx said:

    rottenborough said:

    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    Stuartinromford said:

    Anabobazina said:

    Pulpstar said:

    It must have been a nervy morning at The Sun offices, but the champers must be flowing there now

    Why? I might be missing something but fail to see how the second complainant proves the veracity of the mother's testimony. The first relationship might still have been perfectly legal.
    Depends what you think the story is.

    If it's "X is a wrongun in ways that are too awful to describe in a family newspaper", it works as corroboration.

    If it's "X has done something illegal", it fails, but since when have red tops worried about such niceties?
    The BBC has confirmed that the second complaint is about the same person as the first complaint.

    That might have been damn stupid of them. Suppose I'm a journalist and think it is Basil Brush. In order to confirm my suspicion, I put in a spurious complaint about Mr Brush. If the BBC then tells the world that my complaint and the first complaint are about the same person, then we know Basil Brush sent £35,000 to some 17-20yo crackhead.
    PB lawyers: Can you libel a hand puppet?
    IANAL. But Captain Pugwash springs to mind. Seaman Staines and Roger the C. B. and all that.
    @Roger is a Companion of The Bath?!
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,314
    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    Stuartinromford said:

    Anabobazina said:

    Pulpstar said:

    It must have been a nervy morning at The Sun offices, but the champers must be flowing there now

    Why? I might be missing something but fail to see how the second complainant proves the veracity of the mother's testimony. The first relationship might still have been perfectly legal.
    Depends what you think the story is.

    If it's "X is a wrongun in ways that are too awful to describe in a family newspaper", it works as corroboration.

    If it's "X has done something illegal", it fails, but since when have red tops worried about such niceties?
    The BBC has confirmed that the second complaint is about the same person as the first complaint.

    That might have been damn stupid of them. Suppose I'm a journalist and think it is Basil Brush. In order to confirm my suspicion, I put in a spurious complaint about Mr Brush. If the BBC then tells the world that my complaint and the first complaint are about the same person, then we know Basil Brush sent £35,000 to some 17-20yo crackhead.
    They probably felt that was better than having people speculate about *two* presenters.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,722
    Malmesbury said:

    A

    Carnyx said:

    rottenborough said:

    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    Stuartinromford said:

    Anabobazina said:

    Pulpstar said:

    It must have been a nervy morning at The Sun offices, but the champers must be flowing there now

    Why? I might be missing something but fail to see how the second complainant proves the veracity of the mother's testimony. The first relationship might still have been perfectly legal.
    Depends what you think the story is.

    If it's "X is a wrongun in ways that are too awful to describe in a family newspaper", it works as corroboration.

    If it's "X has done something illegal", it fails, but since when have red tops worried about such niceties?
    The BBC has confirmed that the second complaint is about the same person as the first complaint.

    That might have been damn stupid of them. Suppose I'm a journalist and think it is Basil Brush. In order to confirm my suspicion, I put in a spurious complaint about Mr Brush. If the BBC then tells the world that my complaint and the first complaint are about the same person, then we know Basil Brush sent £35,000 to some 17-20yo crackhead.
    PB lawyers: Can you libel a hand puppet?
    IANAL. But Captain Pugwash springs to mind. Seaman Staines and Roger the C. B. and all that.
    @Roger is a Companion of The Bath?!
    Cabin Boy.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 46,431
    For me, the biggest question in this mess is whether the talent used his position and influence to get things he would otherwise not get. In which case the BBC should get rid of him immediately, as it is an abuse of his position. If not - and what happened was legal - then not.

    Aside from that, it appears so far to be nowhere near as clear-cut case as Schofield.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 56,130
    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Mexicanpete said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Mexicanpete said:

    Anabobazina said:

    Pulpstar said:

    It must have been a nervy morning at The Sun offices, but the champers must be flowing there now

    Why? I might be missing something but fail to see how the second complainant proves the veracity of the mother's testimony. The first relationship might still have been perfectly legal.
    This is all such trivial bollocks.

    One could be forgiven for thinking it is a Conservative Party owned BBC's attempt to smokescreen mortgage rates hitting 6.66% That's right 666!
    You sound a wee bit like @Heathener, and I doubt it is trivia to the parents or the second complainant today or indeed the BBC

    With all due respect you seem to be wrapping yourself up in this salacious nonsense.

    There is nothing I have read that suggests this is anything, so far at least, other than anti BBC propaganda whipped up by the Murdoch press. Up in arms about the allegation that a 17 year old produced unedifying images of themselves and all this when the Sun spent decades published photographs of naked 16 year old girls. Whatever the offence caused by the presenter, the double standard from the Sun is beyond contempt.
    Many on here are reporting this crisis for the BBC and you clearly are only believing what you want to believe and downplaying the allegations

    Your suggestion I am wrapping myself up in this salacious nonsense is nonsense itself

    The whole media are involved in reporting this story and in everything I have said I have cautioned to wait and see how this develops not least to @Heathener this morning who also attempted to close this down
    It’s not a crisis for the BBC

    It’s a crisis for the world of Top Talent - which is only vaguely connected to the BBC, or indeed reality.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 25,434
    edited July 2023
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    I still find it very interesting how the NYT story about the Guardian / FT only got a brief mention in the Telegraph and nothing more. There were serious allegations in both behaviour of the guardian journalist, but just as much so that the FT management killed any attempt to report it.

    This one? https://www.ekathimerini.com/nytimes/1212221/a-british-reporter-had-a-big-metoo-scoop-her-editor-killed-it/
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,470
    edited July 2023
    viewcode said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    I still find it very interesting how the NYT story about the Guardian / FT only got a brief mention in the Telegraph and nothing more. There were serious allegations in both behaviour of the guardian journalist, but just as much so that the FT management killed any attempt to report it.

    This one? https://www.ekathimerini.com/nytimes/1212221/a-british-reporter-had-a-big-metoo-scoop-her-editor-killed-it/
    Yes. None of the British media wanted to engage with it, despite it being in the NYTs.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,784
    GarethoftheVale2 said:

    "It is hard to dispute the current betting odds"

    The Somerton betting odds above add up to 110%...

    I wouldn't worry, it all adds up to a bad night for the Tories.

    From a strictly betting viewpoint, I would say betting on them would be the value, but pretty sure they will be three good value losers.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 66,295
    Carnyx said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Mexicanpete said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Mexicanpete said:

    Anabobazina said:

    Pulpstar said:

    It must have been a nervy morning at The Sun offices, but the champers must be flowing there now

    Why? I might be missing something but fail to see how the second complainant proves the veracity of the mother's testimony. The first relationship might still have been perfectly legal.
    This is all such trivial bollocks.

    One could be forgiven for thinking it is a Conservative Party owned BBC's attempt to smokescreen mortgage rates hitting 6.66% That's right 666!
    You sound a wee bit like @Heathener, and I doubt it is trivia to the parents or the second complainant today or indeed the BBC

    With all due respect you seem to be wrapping yourself up in this salacious nonsense.

    There is nothing I have read that suggests this is anything, so far at least, other than anti BBC propaganda whipped up by the Murdoch press. Up in arms about the allegation that a 17 year old produced unedifying images of themselves and all this when the Sun spent decades published photographs of naked 16 year old girls. Whatever the offence caused by the presenter, the double standard from the Sun is beyond contempt.
    Many on here are reporting this crisis for the BBC and you clearly are only believing what you want to believe and downplaying the allegations

    Your suggestion I am wrapping myself up in this salacious nonsense is nonsense itself

    The whole media are involved in reporting this story and in everything I have said I have cautioned to wait and see how this develops not least to @Heathener this morning who also attempted to close this down
    Nothing like a bit of Tory-approved BBC-bashing, eh, BigG?
    The BBC do not need any help in making this into their very own crisis
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 46,431
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    I still find it very interesting how the NYT story about the Guardian / FT only got a brief mention in the Telegraph and nothing more. There were serious allegations in both behaviour of the guardian journalist, but just as much so that the FT management killed any attempt to report it.

    This story? I missed it, thanks.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/30/world/europe/financial-times-nick-cohen-guardian.html

    Particularly as the accused wrote a book: "You Can't Read This Book: Censorship in an Age of Freedom". Censorship probably being fine when it protects him ....
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 56,130
    JosiasJessop said:

    For me, the biggest question in this mess is whether the talent used his position and influence to get things he would otherwise not get. In which case the BBC should get rid of him immediately, as it is an abuse of his position. If not - and what happened was legal - then not.

    Aside from that, it appears so far to be nowhere near as clear-cut case as Schofield.

    And we know no actual facts so far. Apart from, tentatively, the BBC exists*.

    *the BBC may or may not actually exist. Nothing in this post should be taken as implying the BBC does or does not exist. Nothing in this post should be taken as implying that implying the BBC exists or not is implied. This post may contain nuts. It may contain nutters. it may contain trained Marxist nutters. The value of posts may go up or down. All wrongs reserved.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 12,226
    Carnyx said:

    Malmesbury said:

    A

    Carnyx said:

    rottenborough said:

    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    Stuartinromford said:

    Anabobazina said:

    Pulpstar said:

    It must have been a nervy morning at The Sun offices, but the champers must be flowing there now

    Why? I might be missing something but fail to see how the second complainant proves the veracity of the mother's testimony. The first relationship might still have been perfectly legal.
    Depends what you think the story is.

    If it's "X is a wrongun in ways that are too awful to describe in a family newspaper", it works as corroboration.

    If it's "X has done something illegal", it fails, but since when have red tops worried about such niceties?
    The BBC has confirmed that the second complaint is about the same person as the first complaint.

    That might have been damn stupid of them. Suppose I'm a journalist and think it is Basil Brush. In order to confirm my suspicion, I put in a spurious complaint about Mr Brush. If the BBC then tells the world that my complaint and the first complaint are about the same person, then we know Basil Brush sent £35,000 to some 17-20yo crackhead.
    PB lawyers: Can you libel a hand puppet?
    IANAL. But Captain Pugwash springs to mind. Seaman Staines and Roger the C. B. and all that.
    @Roger is a Companion of The Bath?!
    Cabin Boy.
    I have heard his mate roman polanski likes to use the back door
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 56,130
    Carnyx said:

    Malmesbury said:

    A

    Carnyx said:

    rottenborough said:

    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    Stuartinromford said:

    Anabobazina said:

    Pulpstar said:

    It must have been a nervy morning at The Sun offices, but the champers must be flowing there now

    Why? I might be missing something but fail to see how the second complainant proves the veracity of the mother's testimony. The first relationship might still have been perfectly legal.
    Depends what you think the story is.

    If it's "X is a wrongun in ways that are too awful to describe in a family newspaper", it works as corroboration.

    If it's "X has done something illegal", it fails, but since when have red tops worried about such niceties?
    The BBC has confirmed that the second complaint is about the same person as the first complaint.

    That might have been damn stupid of them. Suppose I'm a journalist and think it is Basil Brush. In order to confirm my suspicion, I put in a spurious complaint about Mr Brush. If the BBC then tells the world that my complaint and the first complaint are about the same person, then we know Basil Brush sent £35,000 to some 17-20yo crackhead.
    PB lawyers: Can you libel a hand puppet?
    IANAL. But Captain Pugwash springs to mind. Seaman Staines and Roger the C. B. and all that.
    @Roger is a Companion of The Bath?!
    Cabin Boy.
    With what glue should I reattach your leg?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 52,593
    JosiasJessop said:

    IanB2 said:

    Experienced the Norwegian health service today, dropping in to their A&E because of a troublesome ear infection that hasn’t responded to over-the-counter stuff. My, was it impressive. More than anything it reminded me of the NHS we were supposed to be getting according to that Leave Campaign ad. More staff than patients, clean modern facilities, seen within ten minutes, blood test, doctor inspection, out within 45 minutes with a prescription, all for a £17 fee, the same that Norwegians pay, as my EHIC card hasn’t quite yet expired. Remarkable.

    Earlier I did another of Clarkson’s world’s best drives, over the Trollstigen, although it was so cloudy you could hardly see anything. But it was a fun drive.

    Since it’s grey and wet today, here’s a photo of a small lake from yesterday, dog for scale.


    I'm glad you had a good experience, and I hope you recover soon.

    But... when I stupidly broke my elbow in the arse-end of nowhere, Scotland, eight years ago, the GP and hospital service were first class. Really excellent. And that, IMO, is one of the NHS's biggest problems: the service is so incredibly spotty.

    And as I said earlier today, the problem is the bad experiences stick longer in your mind than the good.
    And in two weeks so far I’ve only met one person who wasn’t effectively fluent in English, and that was an old guy up in the hills and even he had a few words. Teaching it at school is one thing, but on that basis most of us in England would be fluent in French, and we’re not.

    The fact that the Vikings gifted us so many of our basic words helps a bit - a lot of Norwegian looks like English written by a eight-year-old:

    Kvikk Lunsj
    Ambulanse
    Iskrem
    Eple Pai
    Konferanse Senter
    Lokal Taxi
    Vi Er Apen
    Resepsjon
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 25,434
    Farooq said:

    IanB2 said:

    JosiasJessop said:

    IanB2 said:

    Experienced the Norwegian health service today, dropping in to their A&E because of a troublesome ear infection that hasn’t responded to over-the-counter stuff. My, was it impressive. More than anything it reminded me of the NHS we were supposed to be getting according to that Leave Campaign ad. More staff than patients, clean modern facilities, seen within ten minutes, blood test, doctor inspection, out within 45 minutes with a prescription, all for a £17 fee, the same that Norwegians pay, as my EHIC card hasn’t quite yet expired. Remarkable.

    Earlier I did another of Clarkson’s world’s best drives, over the Trollstigen, although it was so cloudy you could hardly see anything. But it was a fun drive.

    Since it’s grey and wet today, here’s a photo of a small lake from yesterday, dog for scale.


    I'm glad you had a good experience, and I hope you recover soon.

    But... when I stupidly broke my elbow in the arse-end of nowhere, Scotland, eight years ago, the GP and hospital service were first class. Really excellent. And that, IMO, is one of the NHS's biggest problems: the service is so incredibly spotty.

    And as I said earlier today, the problem is the bad experiences stick longer in your mind than the good.
    And in two weeks so far I’ve only met one person who wasn’t effectively fluent in English, and that was an old guy up in the hills and even he had a few words. Teaching it at school is one thing, but on that basis most of us in England would be fluent in French, and we’re not.

    The fact that the Vikings gifted us so many of our basic words helps a bit - a lot of Norwegian looks like English written by a eight-year-old:

    Kvikk Lunsj
    Ambulanse
    Iskrem
    Eple Pai
    Konferanse Senter
    Lokal Taxi
    Vi Er Apen
    Resepsjon
    "ambulance" and "reception" are from French
    Chauffeur. Cafe. Restaurant
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 33,427
    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Carnyx said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Mexicanpete said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Mexicanpete said:

    Anabobazina said:

    Pulpstar said:

    It must have been a nervy morning at The Sun offices, but the champers must be flowing there now

    Why? I might be missing something but fail to see how the second complainant proves the veracity of the mother's testimony. The first relationship might still have been perfectly legal.
    This is all such trivial bollocks.

    One could be forgiven for thinking it is a Conservative Party owned BBC's attempt to smokescreen mortgage rates hitting 6.66% That's right 666!
    You sound a wee bit like @Heathener, and I doubt it is trivia to the parents or the second complainant today or indeed the BBC

    With all due respect you seem to be wrapping yourself up in this salacious nonsense.

    There is nothing I have read that suggests this is anything, so far at least, other than anti BBC propaganda whipped up by the Murdoch press. Up in arms about the allegation that a 17 year old produced unedifying images of themselves and all this when the Sun spent decades published photographs of naked 16 year old girls. Whatever the offence caused by the presenter, the double standard from the Sun is beyond contempt.
    Many on here are reporting this crisis for the BBC and you clearly are only believing what you want to believe and downplaying the allegations

    Your suggestion I am wrapping myself up in this salacious nonsense is nonsense itself

    The whole media are involved in reporting this story and in everything I have said I have cautioned to wait and see how this develops not least to @Heathener this morning who also attempted to close this down
    Nothing like a bit of Tory-approved BBC-bashing, eh, BigG?
    The BBC do not need any help in making this into their very own crisis
    I will accept Tim "Tory" Davie has made another pig's ear, turning a drama into a crisis. Someone with impeccable connections promoted way beyond his ability.
  • MiklosvarMiklosvar Posts: 1,855
    Farooq said:

    IanB2 said:

    JosiasJessop said:

    IanB2 said:

    Experienced the Norwegian health service today, dropping in to their A&E because of a troublesome ear infection that hasn’t responded to over-the-counter stuff. My, was it impressive. More than anything it reminded me of the NHS we were supposed to be getting according to that Leave Campaign ad. More staff than patients, clean modern facilities, seen within ten minutes, blood test, doctor inspection, out within 45 minutes with a prescription, all for a £17 fee, the same that Norwegians pay, as my EHIC card hasn’t quite yet expired. Remarkable.

    Earlier I did another of Clarkson’s world’s best drives, over the Trollstigen, although it was so cloudy you could hardly see anything. But it was a fun drive.

    Since it’s grey and wet today, here’s a photo of a small lake from yesterday, dog for scale.


    I'm glad you had a good experience, and I hope you recover soon.

    But... when I stupidly broke my elbow in the arse-end of nowhere, Scotland, eight years ago, the GP and hospital service were first class. Really excellent. And that, IMO, is one of the NHS's biggest problems: the service is so incredibly spotty.

    And as I said earlier today, the problem is the bad experiences stick longer in your mind than the good.
    And in two weeks so far I’ve only met one person who wasn’t effectively fluent in English, and that was an old guy up in the hills and even he had a few words. Teaching it at school is one thing, but on that basis most of us in England would be fluent in French, and we’re not.

    The fact that the Vikings gifted us so many of our basic words helps a bit - a lot of Norwegian looks like English written by a eight-year-old:

    Kvikk Lunsj
    Ambulanse
    Iskrem
    Eple Pai
    Konferanse Senter
    Lokal Taxi
    Vi Er Apen
    Resepsjon
    "ambulance" and "reception" are from French
    I assume, and hope, he is joking
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,180
    kinabalu said:

    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    Stuartinromford said:

    Anabobazina said:

    Pulpstar said:

    It must have been a nervy morning at The Sun offices, but the champers must be flowing there now

    Why? I might be missing something but fail to see how the second complainant proves the veracity of the mother's testimony. The first relationship might still have been perfectly legal.
    Depends what you think the story is.

    If it's "X is a wrongun in ways that are too awful to describe in a family newspaper", it works as corroboration.

    If it's "X has done something illegal", it fails, but since when have red tops worried about such niceties?
    The BBC has confirmed that the second complaint is about the same person as the first complaint.

    That might have been damn stupid of them. Suppose I'm a journalist and think it is Basil Brush. In order to confirm my suspicion, I put in a spurious complaint about Mr Brush. If the BBC then tells the world that my complaint and the first complaint are about the same person, then we know Basil Brush sent £35,000 to some 17-20yo crackhead.
    Brush? He does seem to be lying low. But let's not get Mike into trouble.
    Has he shot the BBC fox? or has the brush just been swept under the rug?
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,180
    IanB2 said:

    Experienced the Norwegian health service today, dropping in to their A&E because of a troublesome ear infection that hasn’t responded to over-the-counter stuff. My, was it impressive. More than anything it reminded me of the NHS we were supposed to be getting according to that Leave Campaign ad. More staff than patients, clean modern facilities, seen within ten minutes, blood test, doctor inspection, out within 45 minutes with a prescription, all for a £17 fee, the same that Norwegians pay, as my EHIC card hasn’t quite yet expired. Remarkable.

    Earlier I did another of Clarkson’s world’s best drives, over the Trollstigen, although it was so cloudy you could hardly see anything. But it was a fun drive.

    Since it’s grey and wet today, here’s a photo of a small lake from yesterday, dog for scale.


    And just remember the uproar there'd be on the left if the NHS here imposed a £17 fee....
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,350
    edited July 2023
    F1 News: Ricciardo replaces Nyck de Vries

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/66169108

    Bloody hell, Red Bull really are savage
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 11,827
    felix said:

    kinabalu said:

    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    Stuartinromford said:

    Anabobazina said:

    Pulpstar said:

    It must have been a nervy morning at The Sun offices, but the champers must be flowing there now

    Why? I might be missing something but fail to see how the second complainant proves the veracity of the mother's testimony. The first relationship might still have been perfectly legal.
    Depends what you think the story is.

    If it's "X is a wrongun in ways that are too awful to describe in a family newspaper", it works as corroboration.

    If it's "X has done something illegal", it fails, but since when have red tops worried about such niceties?
    The BBC has confirmed that the second complaint is about the same person as the first complaint.

    That might have been damn stupid of them. Suppose I'm a journalist and think it is Basil Brush. In order to confirm my suspicion, I put in a spurious complaint about Mr Brush. If the BBC then tells the world that my complaint and the first complaint are about the same person, then we know Basil Brush sent £35,000 to some 17-20yo crackhead.
    Brush? He does seem to be lying low. But let's not get Mike into trouble.
    Has he shot the BBC fox? or has the brush just been swept under the rug?
    felix said:

    kinabalu said:

    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    Stuartinromford said:

    Anabobazina said:

    Pulpstar said:

    It must have been a nervy morning at The Sun offices, but the champers must be flowing there now

    Why? I might be missing something but fail to see how the second complainant proves the veracity of the mother's testimony. The first relationship might still have been perfectly legal.
    Depends what you think the story is.

    If it's "X is a wrongun in ways that are too awful to describe in a family newspaper", it works as corroboration.

    If it's "X has done something illegal", it fails, but since when have red tops worried about such niceties?
    The BBC has confirmed that the second complaint is about the same person as the first complaint.

    That might have been damn stupid of them. Suppose I'm a journalist and think it is Basil Brush. In order to confirm my suspicion, I put in a spurious complaint about Mr Brush. If the BBC then tells the world that my complaint and the first complaint are about the same person, then we know Basil Brush sent £35,000 to some 17-20yo crackhead.
    Brush? He does seem to be lying low. But let's not get Mike into trouble.
    Has he shot the BBC fox? or has the brush just been swept under the rug?
    Careful or the lawyers will let you have it with both barrels. Boom, boom!
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,722
    Malmesbury said:

    Carnyx said:

    Malmesbury said:

    A

    Carnyx said:

    rottenborough said:

    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    Stuartinromford said:

    Anabobazina said:

    Pulpstar said:

    It must have been a nervy morning at The Sun offices, but the champers must be flowing there now

    Why? I might be missing something but fail to see how the second complainant proves the veracity of the mother's testimony. The first relationship might still have been perfectly legal.
    Depends what you think the story is.

    If it's "X is a wrongun in ways that are too awful to describe in a family newspaper", it works as corroboration.

    If it's "X has done something illegal", it fails, but since when have red tops worried about such niceties?
    The BBC has confirmed that the second complaint is about the same person as the first complaint.

    That might have been damn stupid of them. Suppose I'm a journalist and think it is Basil Brush. In order to confirm my suspicion, I put in a spurious complaint about Mr Brush. If the BBC then tells the world that my complaint and the first complaint are about the same person, then we know Basil Brush sent £35,000 to some 17-20yo crackhead.
    PB lawyers: Can you libel a hand puppet?
    IANAL. But Captain Pugwash springs to mind. Seaman Staines and Roger the C. B. and all that.
    @Roger is a Companion of The Bath?!
    Cabin Boy.
    With what glue should I reattach your leg?
    Oh come, that's unfair - it was quite a long time ago and some of us aren't even up to the news of last week never mind that particular case (vide the chaps who didn't know what The Email was). I was only trying to be kind to the challenged.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,180
    Omnium said:

    felix said:

    kinabalu said:

    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    Stuartinromford said:

    Anabobazina said:

    Pulpstar said:

    It must have been a nervy morning at The Sun offices, but the champers must be flowing there now

    Why? I might be missing something but fail to see how the second complainant proves the veracity of the mother's testimony. The first relationship might still have been perfectly legal.
    Depends what you think the story is.

    If it's "X is a wrongun in ways that are too awful to describe in a family newspaper", it works as corroboration.

    If it's "X has done something illegal", it fails, but since when have red tops worried about such niceties?
    The BBC has confirmed that the second complaint is about the same person as the first complaint.

    That might have been damn stupid of them. Suppose I'm a journalist and think it is Basil Brush. In order to confirm my suspicion, I put in a spurious complaint about Mr Brush. If the BBC then tells the world that my complaint and the first complaint are about the same person, then we know Basil Brush sent £35,000 to some 17-20yo crackhead.
    Brush? He does seem to be lying low. But let's not get Mike into trouble.
    Has he shot the BBC fox? or has the brush just been swept under the rug?
    felix said:

    kinabalu said:

    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    Stuartinromford said:

    Anabobazina said:

    Pulpstar said:

    It must have been a nervy morning at The Sun offices, but the champers must be flowing there now

    Why? I might be missing something but fail to see how the second complainant proves the veracity of the mother's testimony. The first relationship might still have been perfectly legal.
    Depends what you think the story is.

    If it's "X is a wrongun in ways that are too awful to describe in a family newspaper", it works as corroboration.

    If it's "X has done something illegal", it fails, but since when have red tops worried about such niceties?
    The BBC has confirmed that the second complaint is about the same person as the first complaint.

    That might have been damn stupid of them. Suppose I'm a journalist and think it is Basil Brush. In order to confirm my suspicion, I put in a spurious complaint about Mr Brush. If the BBC then tells the world that my complaint and the first complaint are about the same person, then we know Basil Brush sent £35,000 to some 17-20yo crackhead.
    Brush? He does seem to be lying low. But let's not get Mike into trouble.
    Has he shot the BBC fox? or has the brush just been swept under the rug?
    Careful or the lawyers will let you have it with both barrels. Boom, boom!
    OMG I 'd better flee the country - on wait a minute I already did! Phew!
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,722
    felix said:

    IanB2 said:

    Experienced the Norwegian health service today, dropping in to their A&E because of a troublesome ear infection that hasn’t responded to over-the-counter stuff. My, was it impressive. More than anything it reminded me of the NHS we were supposed to be getting according to that Leave Campaign ad. More staff than patients, clean modern facilities, seen within ten minutes, blood test, doctor inspection, out within 45 minutes with a prescription, all for a £17 fee, the same that Norwegians pay, as my EHIC card hasn’t quite yet expired. Remarkable.

    Earlier I did another of Clarkson’s world’s best drives, over the Trollstigen, although it was so cloudy you could hardly see anything. But it was a fun drive.

    Since it’s grey and wet today, here’s a photo of a small lake from yesterday, dog for scale.


    And just remember the uproar there'd be on the left if the NHS here imposed a £17 fee....
    Under the sovereign wealth fund which Mrs T saved from the oil money?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 32,081
    The Guardian is trolling Boris re his new baby son.

    Carrie Johnson, in the caption of an Instagram post with a picture of her holding the newborn, joked: “Welcome to the world Frank Alfred Odysseus Johnson born 5th July at 9.15am. (Can you guess which name my husband chose?!)”

    The former prime minister Boris Johnson is keen to be thought of as a scholar of the classics. In Greek mythology, Odysseus leaves behind his wife and child to seek adventure, encountering many other women along the way.
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/jul/11/carrie-boris-johnson-announce-birth-baby-boy-frank
  • boulayboulay Posts: 6,716
    Omnium said:

    felix said:

    kinabalu said:

    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    Stuartinromford said:

    Anabobazina said:

    Pulpstar said:

    It must have been a nervy morning at The Sun offices, but the champers must be flowing there now

    Why? I might be missing something but fail to see how the second complainant proves the veracity of the mother's testimony. The first relationship might still have been perfectly legal.
    Depends what you think the story is.

    If it's "X is a wrongun in ways that are too awful to describe in a family newspaper", it works as corroboration.

    If it's "X has done something illegal", it fails, but since when have red tops worried about such niceties?
    The BBC has confirmed that the second complaint is about the same person as the first complaint.

    That might have been damn stupid of them. Suppose I'm a journalist and think it is Basil Brush. In order to confirm my suspicion, I put in a spurious complaint about Mr Brush. If the BBC then tells the world that my complaint and the first complaint are about the same person, then we know Basil Brush sent £35,000 to some 17-20yo crackhead.
    Brush? He does seem to be lying low. But let's not get Mike into trouble.
    Has he shot the BBC fox? or has the brush just been swept under the rug?
    felix said:

    kinabalu said:

    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    Stuartinromford said:

    Anabobazina said:

    Pulpstar said:

    It must have been a nervy morning at The Sun offices, but the champers must be flowing there now

    Why? I might be missing something but fail to see how the second complainant proves the veracity of the mother's testimony. The first relationship might still have been perfectly legal.
    Depends what you think the story is.

    If it's "X is a wrongun in ways that are too awful to describe in a family newspaper", it works as corroboration.

    If it's "X has done something illegal", it fails, but since when have red tops worried about such niceties?
    The BBC has confirmed that the second complaint is about the same person as the first complaint.

    That might have been damn stupid of them. Suppose I'm a journalist and think it is Basil Brush. In order to confirm my suspicion, I put in a spurious complaint about Mr Brush. If the BBC then tells the world that my complaint and the first complaint are about the same person, then we know Basil Brush sent £35,000 to some 17-20yo crackhead.
    Brush? He does seem to be lying low. But let's not get Mike into trouble.
    Has he shot the BBC fox? or has the brush just been swept under the rug?
    Careful or the lawyers will let you have it with both barrels. Boom, boom!
    I thought lawyers went after foxes with baseball bats?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 56,130
    boulay said:

    Omnium said:

    felix said:

    kinabalu said:

    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    Stuartinromford said:

    Anabobazina said:

    Pulpstar said:

    It must have been a nervy morning at The Sun offices, but the champers must be flowing there now

    Why? I might be missing something but fail to see how the second complainant proves the veracity of the mother's testimony. The first relationship might still have been perfectly legal.
    Depends what you think the story is.

    If it's "X is a wrongun in ways that are too awful to describe in a family newspaper", it works as corroboration.

    If it's "X has done something illegal", it fails, but since when have red tops worried about such niceties?
    The BBC has confirmed that the second complaint is about the same person as the first complaint.

    That might have been damn stupid of them. Suppose I'm a journalist and think it is Basil Brush. In order to confirm my suspicion, I put in a spurious complaint about Mr Brush. If the BBC then tells the world that my complaint and the first complaint are about the same person, then we know Basil Brush sent £35,000 to some 17-20yo crackhead.
    Brush? He does seem to be lying low. But let's not get Mike into trouble.
    Has he shot the BBC fox? or has the brush just been swept under the rug?
    felix said:

    kinabalu said:

    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    Stuartinromford said:

    Anabobazina said:

    Pulpstar said:

    It must have been a nervy morning at The Sun offices, but the champers must be flowing there now

    Why? I might be missing something but fail to see how the second complainant proves the veracity of the mother's testimony. The first relationship might still have been perfectly legal.
    Depends what you think the story is.

    If it's "X is a wrongun in ways that are too awful to describe in a family newspaper", it works as corroboration.

    If it's "X has done something illegal", it fails, but since when have red tops worried about such niceties?
    The BBC has confirmed that the second complaint is about the same person as the first complaint.

    That might have been damn stupid of them. Suppose I'm a journalist and think it is Basil Brush. In order to confirm my suspicion, I put in a spurious complaint about Mr Brush. If the BBC then tells the world that my complaint and the first complaint are about the same person, then we know Basil Brush sent £35,000 to some 17-20yo crackhead.
    Brush? He does seem to be lying low. But let's not get Mike into trouble.
    Has he shot the BBC fox? or has the brush just been swept under the rug?
    Careful or the lawyers will let you have it with both barrels. Boom, boom!
    I thought lawyers went after foxes with baseball bats?
    Only when wearing their wife’s kimonos. It’s an Inner Temple ceremonial thing. Like being on The Square.
  • MiklosvarMiklosvar Posts: 1,855
    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    The Guardian is trolling Boris re his new baby son.

    Carrie Johnson, in the caption of an Instagram post with a picture of her holding the newborn, joked: “Welcome to the world Frank Alfred Odysseus Johnson born 5th July at 9.15am. (Can you guess which name my husband chose?!)”

    The former prime minister Boris Johnson is keen to be thought of as a scholar of the classics. In Greek mythology, Odysseus leaves behind his wife and child to seek adventure, encountering many other women along the way.
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/jul/11/carrie-boris-johnson-announce-birth-baby-boy-frank

    FAO is an unforced error

    Odysseus did not leave behind his wife and child to seek adventure, he tried to get out of the whole Trojan thing by feigning madness. Guardian level accuracy.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 32,081
    PB history teachers need to see this film. It turns out they've been lying to us.

    He came from nothing. He conquered everything. From acclaimed director Ridley Scott, #Napoleon is Only In Cinemas November 22. Watch the official trailer now.
    https://twitter.com/SonyPicturesUK/status/1678374071598211075
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    CatMan said:

    F1 News: Ricciardo replaces Nyck de Vries

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/66169108

    Bloody hell, Red Bull really are savage

    Especially on the guts of folks who guzzle this 3rd-millennium hyper-hell-brew.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 32,081
    Miklosvar said:

    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    The Guardian is trolling Boris re his new baby son.

    Carrie Johnson, in the caption of an Instagram post with a picture of her holding the newborn, joked: “Welcome to the world Frank Alfred Odysseus Johnson born 5th July at 9.15am. (Can you guess which name my husband chose?!)”

    The former prime minister Boris Johnson is keen to be thought of as a scholar of the classics. In Greek mythology, Odysseus leaves behind his wife and child to seek adventure, encountering many other women along the way.
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/jul/11/carrie-boris-johnson-announce-birth-baby-boy-frank

    FAO is an unforced error

    Odysseus did not leave behind his wife and child to seek adventure, he tried to get out of the whole Trojan thing by feigning madness. Guardian level accuracy.
    Call me Mr Slow on the Uptake but if the baby was born on the 5th, why wait a week? Did Boris have bad news to bury like the non-appearance of his Whatsapp messages and phone? As it happens, this BBC story has kept almost everything out of the headlines.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,122
    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    The Guardian is trolling Boris re his new baby son.

    Carrie Johnson, in the caption of an Instagram post with a picture of her holding the newborn, joked: “Welcome to the world Frank Alfred Odysseus Johnson born 5th July at 9.15am. (Can you guess which name my husband chose?!)”

    The former prime minister Boris Johnson is keen to be thought of as a scholar of the classics. In Greek mythology, Odysseus leaves behind his wife and child to seek adventure, encountering many other women along the way.
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/jul/11/carrie-boris-johnson-announce-birth-baby-boy-frank

    That’s what one might expect from the Mirror, not a supposedly-serious newspaper.

    No matter how much you dislike someone, wish them for positive life events.

    Interesting NY Times story about the FT and the Guardian though. Something of a fight coming between US and UK media groups I wonder?
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    PB history teachers need to see this film. It turns out they've been lying to us.

    He came from nothing. He conquered everything. From acclaimed director Ridley Scott, #Napoleon is Only In Cinemas November 22. Watch the official trailer now.
    https://twitter.com/SonyPicturesUK/status/1678374071598211075

    So Boney really did bugger Bognor?
  • TazTaz Posts: 20,061
    edited July 2023
    Carnyx said:

    rottenborough said:

    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    Stuartinromford said:

    Anabobazina said:

    Pulpstar said:

    It must have been a nervy morning at The Sun offices, but the champers must be flowing there now

    Why? I might be missing something but fail to see how the second complainant proves the veracity of the mother's testimony. The first relationship might still have been perfectly legal.
    Depends what you think the story is.

    If it's "X is a wrongun in ways that are too awful to describe in a family newspaper", it works as corroboration.

    If it's "X has done something illegal", it fails, but since when have red tops worried about such niceties?
    The BBC has confirmed that the second complaint is about the same person as the first complaint.

    That might have been damn stupid of them. Suppose I'm a journalist and think it is Basil Brush. In order to confirm my suspicion, I put in a spurious complaint about Mr Brush. If the BBC then tells the world that my complaint and the first complaint are about the same person, then we know Basil Brush sent £35,000 to some 17-20yo crackhead.
    PB lawyers: Can you libel a hand puppet?
    IANAL. But Captain Pugwash springs to mind. Seaman Staines and Roger the C. B. and all that.
    Although they did have a Master Mate.

    The defamation was based on the character names, or the urban myth around the character names.

    Ironic as they are still accepted as fact to this day by many people.

    Edit - talking of Cpt Pugwash, the last episode was shown (since oft repeated along with the rest of the show) on this day in 1975. Just popped up on my Facebook feed !
  • TazTaz Posts: 20,061
    boulay said:

    Omnium said:

    felix said:

    kinabalu said:

    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    Stuartinromford said:

    Anabobazina said:

    Pulpstar said:

    It must have been a nervy morning at The Sun offices, but the champers must be flowing there now

    Why? I might be missing something but fail to see how the second complainant proves the veracity of the mother's testimony. The first relationship might still have been perfectly legal.
    Depends what you think the story is.

    If it's "X is a wrongun in ways that are too awful to describe in a family newspaper", it works as corroboration.

    If it's "X has done something illegal", it fails, but since when have red tops worried about such niceties?
    The BBC has confirmed that the second complaint is about the same person as the first complaint.

    That might have been damn stupid of them. Suppose I'm a journalist and think it is Basil Brush. In order to confirm my suspicion, I put in a spurious complaint about Mr Brush. If the BBC then tells the world that my complaint and the first complaint are about the same person, then we know Basil Brush sent £35,000 to some 17-20yo crackhead.
    Brush? He does seem to be lying low. But let's not get Mike into trouble.
    Has he shot the BBC fox? or has the brush just been swept under the rug?
    felix said:

    kinabalu said:

    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    Stuartinromford said:

    Anabobazina said:

    Pulpstar said:

    It must have been a nervy morning at The Sun offices, but the champers must be flowing there now

    Why? I might be missing something but fail to see how the second complainant proves the veracity of the mother's testimony. The first relationship might still have been perfectly legal.
    Depends what you think the story is.

    If it's "X is a wrongun in ways that are too awful to describe in a family newspaper", it works as corroboration.

    If it's "X has done something illegal", it fails, but since when have red tops worried about such niceties?
    The BBC has confirmed that the second complaint is about the same person as the first complaint.

    That might have been damn stupid of them. Suppose I'm a journalist and think it is Basil Brush. In order to confirm my suspicion, I put in a spurious complaint about Mr Brush. If the BBC then tells the world that my complaint and the first complaint are about the same person, then we know Basil Brush sent £35,000 to some 17-20yo crackhead.
    Brush? He does seem to be lying low. But let's not get Mike into trouble.
    Has he shot the BBC fox? or has the brush just been swept under the rug?
    Careful or the lawyers will let you have it with both barrels. Boom, boom!
    I thought lawyers went after foxes with baseball bats?
    Wear the fox hat.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,180
    Malmesbury said:

    boulay said:

    Omnium said:

    felix said:

    kinabalu said:

    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    Stuartinromford said:

    Anabobazina said:

    Pulpstar said:

    It must have been a nervy morning at The Sun offices, but the champers must be flowing there now

    Why? I might be missing something but fail to see how the second complainant proves the veracity of the mother's testimony. The first relationship might still have been perfectly legal.
    Depends what you think the story is.

    If it's "X is a wrongun in ways that are too awful to describe in a family newspaper", it works as corroboration.

    If it's "X has done something illegal", it fails, but since when have red tops worried about such niceties?
    The BBC has confirmed that the second complaint is about the same person as the first complaint.

    That might have been damn stupid of them. Suppose I'm a journalist and think it is Basil Brush. In order to confirm my suspicion, I put in a spurious complaint about Mr Brush. If the BBC then tells the world that my complaint and the first complaint are about the same person, then we know Basil Brush sent £35,000 to some 17-20yo crackhead.
    Brush? He does seem to be lying low. But let's not get Mike into trouble.
    Has he shot the BBC fox? or has the brush just been swept under the rug?
    felix said:

    kinabalu said:

    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    Stuartinromford said:

    Anabobazina said:

    Pulpstar said:

    It must have been a nervy morning at The Sun offices, but the champers must be flowing there now

    Why? I might be missing something but fail to see how the second complainant proves the veracity of the mother's testimony. The first relationship might still have been perfectly legal.
    Depends what you think the story is.

    If it's "X is a wrongun in ways that are too awful to describe in a family newspaper", it works as corroboration.

    If it's "X has done something illegal", it fails, but since when have red tops worried about such niceties?
    The BBC has confirmed that the second complaint is about the same person as the first complaint.

    That might have been damn stupid of them. Suppose I'm a journalist and think it is Basil Brush. In order to confirm my suspicion, I put in a spurious complaint about Mr Brush. If the BBC then tells the world that my complaint and the first complaint are about the same person, then we know Basil Brush sent £35,000 to some 17-20yo crackhead.
    Brush? He does seem to be lying low. But let's not get Mike into trouble.
    Has he shot the BBC fox? or has the brush just been swept under the rug?
    Careful or the lawyers will let you have it with both barrels. Boom, boom!
    I thought lawyers went after foxes with baseball bats?
    Only when wearing their wife’s kimonos. It’s an Inner Temple ceremonial thing. Like being on The Square.
    A great reference when applying for a job presenting on the Beeb I guess...
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 33,427
    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Mexicanpete said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Mexicanpete said:

    Anabobazina said:

    Pulpstar said:

    It must have been a nervy morning at The Sun offices, but the champers must be flowing there now

    Why? I might be missing something but fail to see how the second complainant proves the veracity of the mother's testimony. The first relationship might still have been perfectly legal.
    This is all such trivial bollocks.

    One could be forgiven for thinking it is a Conservative Party owned BBC's attempt to smokescreen mortgage rates hitting 6.66% That's right 666!
    You sound a wee bit like @Heathener, and I doubt it is trivia to the parents or the second complainant today or indeed the BBC

    With all due respect you seem to be wrapping yourself up in this salacious nonsense.

    There is nothing I have read that suggests this is anything, so far at least, other than anti BBC propaganda whipped up by the Murdoch press. Up in arms about the allegation that a 17 year old produced unedifying images of themselves and all this when the Sun spent decades published photographs of naked 16 year old girls. Whatever the offence caused by the presenter, the double standard from the Sun is beyond contempt.
    Many on here are reporting this crisis for the BBC and you clearly are only believing what you want to believe and downplaying the allegations

    Your suggestion I am wrapping myself up in this salacious nonsense is nonsense itself

    The whole media are involved in reporting this story and in everything I have said I have cautioned to wait and see how this develops not least to @Heathener this morning who also attempted to close this down
    It is no Beergate though, is it?
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,740
    Sandpit said:

    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    The Guardian is trolling Boris re his new baby son.

    Carrie Johnson, in the caption of an Instagram post with a picture of her holding the newborn, joked: “Welcome to the world Frank Alfred Odysseus Johnson born 5th July at 9.15am. (Can you guess which name my husband chose?!)”

    The former prime minister Boris Johnson is keen to be thought of as a scholar of the classics. In Greek mythology, Odysseus leaves behind his wife and child to seek adventure, encountering many other women along the way.
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/jul/11/carrie-boris-johnson-announce-birth-baby-boy-frank

    That’s what one might expect from the Mirror, not a supposedly-serious newspaper.

    No matter how much you dislike someone, wish them for positive life events.

    Interesting NY Times story about the FT and the Guardian though. Something of a fight coming between US and UK media groups I wonder?
    I tend to think "serious" left town when the iPhone arrived, and newspapers had to compete with cat pictures.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 46,431
    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    PB history teachers need to see this film. It turns out they've been lying to us.

    He came from nothing. He conquered everything. From acclaimed director Ridley Scott, #Napoleon is Only In Cinemas November 22. Watch the official trailer now.
    https://twitter.com/SonyPicturesUK/status/1678374071598211075

    I saw that this morning, and it made me laugh. He hardly 'came from nothing';

    "His parents Carlo Maria di Buonaparte and Maria Letizia Ramolino maintained an ancestral home called "Casa Buonaparte" in Ajaccio."

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Napoleon

    I really don't get all the adoration for Napoleon - and that's not just because I'm British. So many deaths, all for his vanity.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 12,226
    JosiasJessop said:

    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    PB history teachers need to see this film. It turns out they've been lying to us.

    He came from nothing. He conquered everything. From acclaimed director Ridley Scott, #Napoleon is Only In Cinemas November 22. Watch the official trailer now.
    https://twitter.com/SonyPicturesUK/status/1678374071598211075

    I saw that this morning, and it made me laugh. He hardly 'came from nothing';

    "His parents Carlo Maria di Buonaparte and Maria Letizia Ramolino maintained an ancestral home called "Casa Buonaparte" in Ajaccio."

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Napoleon

    I really don't get all the adoration for Napoleon - and that's not just because I'm British. So many deaths, all for his vanity.
    Napolean almost created a european superstate and you wonder why some adore him?
  • eekeek Posts: 30,852
    CatMan said:

    F1 News: Ricciardo replaces Nyck de Vries

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/66169108

    Bloody hell, Red Bull really are savage

    Think there is a certain amount of "how can the car be this bad, let's put an experienced driver in to see where the problem really is" attached to the change.

    Red Bull are the top of the manufacturer's championship. AlphaTauri near the bottom....
  • SandraMcSandraMc Posts: 771
    Did
    JosiasJessop said:

    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    PB history teachers need to see this film. It turns out they've been lying to us.

    He came from nothing. He conquered everything. From acclaimed director Ridley Scott, #Napoleon is Only In Cinemas November 22. Watch the official trailer now.
    https://twitter.com/SonyPicturesUK/status/1678374071598211075

    I saw that this morning, and it made me laugh. He hardly 'came from nothing';

    "His parents Carlo Maria di Buonaparte and Maria Letizia Ramolino maintained an ancestral home called "Casa Buonaparte" in Ajaccio."

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Napoleon

    I really don't get all the adoration for Napoleon - and that's not just because I'm British. So many deaths, all for his vanity.
    I've been to the house where he was born. It's nothing special.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 12,226
    FPT
    Stuartinromford said:

    felix said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    ydoethur said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    ydoethur said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    ydoethur said:

    TimS said:

    kinabalu said:

    ydoethur said:

    kinabalu said:

    ydoethur said:

    El_Capitano said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    rottenborough said:

    Paul Johnson
    @PJTheEconomist
    ·
    3h
    Private school fees have risen 20% in real terms since 2010 and 55% since 2003. Numbers privately educated have been pretty constant that whole time. Removing tax exemptions likely to have only small effects on numbers. Net benefit to public finances likely to be £1.3-1.5bn p.a.

    https://twitter.com/PJTheEconomist/status/1678687484992004096

    Paying an extra 20% tomorrow isn't quite the same as 20% more over 10 years. Also be interesting to know the shift in who is attending. Has it shifted to much more reliance on overseas students?
    Short answer: yes.

    Labour's proposed changes will have basically no effect on Eton and Harrow. It's the smaller, less selective private schools with specialisms (e.g. music or autism support) which are going to suffer. It's not really a very progressive policy at all.
    If I wanted to target Eton, Harrow, Clifton, Winchester, Westminster, Cheltenham etc my policy would be to disendow all schools registered as charities that charged fees.

    I think that would make a very substantial difference to their business models. Either lose your reserves, or pay business rates.

    I suspect those ones would also be able to compensate by whacking up the overseas fees, so it wouldn’t make much difference in practice to them.
    Requisition as accommodation for asylum seekers?
    Well, if Johnson went there I suppose it was a sort of asylum.

    Incidentally, its endowment fund went up every single year in the past decade, including during Covid. It was worth £568 million in August last year, and that's with the school running at a headline loss.

    https://www.etoncollege.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/21-22-ETON-COLLEGE-CONSOLIDATED-Signed.pdf

    Now, of course if you disendowed Eton etc that wouldn't be (like VAT) something you should use as income, unless you're Thatcher and Lawson. But it could very easily be used to rebuild a largeish chunk of our collapsing school structures, for example. Which, if a bunch of sane architects rather than the ones for BSF were involved, would not only dramatically improve the environment children are in, and make it safer, but also cut future running costs substantially.

    Plus Eton would then undoubtedly charge higher fees to cover all its costs, and as a result the rich would be paying more.

    Or alternatively, they become businesses, and account for their profits to the taxman. And pay up.

    Meanwhile the smaller private schools - e.g. those that take a largeish number of SEND that the local authority can't find places for in specialist schools because they've all been shut - can keep doing what they do, which is not without disadvantages but would cause more problems than it would solve if it stopped.
    Making some sense here. And I do like the suitably painful sound of 'disendow'. Brutal perhaps but hardly unprovoked imo.

    "Look, elitist British public schools, you've been fouling up the place for years, and we've had enough. Time to disendow you. Please prepare yourselves accordingly."
    We really need differential approaches to the elite public schools which have become another global luxury good, like central London property, and the private day schools that mess around in the middle class selective market alongside grammar schools and postcode-based social cleansing.

    Both have damaging impacts on British life but in very different ways. One gave us the likes of Boris and JRM but most of what it does is bring in export income. Perhaps we just ringfence the hyper-elite sector like we do Mayfair. Charge a luxury tax on it, a kind of poshness excise duty. The other is more of a serious market failing because its impact is more widespread.

    Somehow if we could blur the line between state and private at the mid level we might be able to widen access to the facilities and skills in the independent sector and reduce social gaps in attainment. But don’t ask me how. If the answer was easy we’d have done it already.
    The problem is not that the solution is difficult but that it is expensive.

    Cut all classes in the state sector to a maximum of twenty and offer private schools the chance to become state at the same time, and almost all private schools would become state schools overnight.

    Plus it would solve many other problems, including making behaviour management much easier.

    But - nobody has ever found a way to pay for it, and it would not be cheap.
    It would pay for itself over time by leading to improved educational outcomes and higher productivity. The fact we don't do it is another example of our aversion to investment in this country. Plus of course the fact that it would undermine the advantages that the rich and powerful are buying for their offspring.
    I entirely agree. But it will still never happen.
    Maybe, like with the idea of Brexit as shock therapy with a short term cost that would force us to adopt policies that paid off in the long term, we need to simply shut down all private schools and see what happens. It may be the only way to create a sufficiently powerful political constituency for adequately funded schools in the long run, even if in the short run it will make things worse.
    Can I just check - are you a Rejoiner?
    At some point I think we will rejoin because Brexit has made us poorer and because the people who found the EU most offensive are old and we all know what happens to old people. I would welcome us rejoining, but I'm not agitating for it if that's what you mean.
    Historically the proportion of oldies in the UK is continuing to grow so your point may lack some of the force you intended.
    Brexit backers were a specific generation of old people. Those who grew up in the 50s and 60s who remembered their youth before the EEC and (to an extent) have always mourned its loss. (Fun fact: young people were the most hostile to the EEC in the 1975 referendum).

    Apply that same logic to the incoming generation of not-yet-old people. We grew up in the 70s and 80s; Brexit has taken a chunk of our youth away from us. We maybe fools for thinking that way, but foolishness is part of the human condition. Based on the precedent of the boomers above us, there's no particular reason to think we'll change our mind as we get older and grumpier.

    Imagine a graph of Brexit support against age. It's roughly a straight line bottom left to top right. The changes since 2016 are partly about that line moving down (Brexit seen as not a good idea) but also moving right (time doing its thing, and people carrying their prejudices with them as they age). Trouble is that, unless you track individuals, it's not easy to tell those two effects apart by looking at the graph.
    Correction brexit backers are the people who voted yes to stay in back in the 70's and after watching how it evolved over 50 odd years when yeah no thanks. People who never saw the alternative of pre eu went yes we want to stay in.

    The only demographic that had both experiences told the eu to fuck off. Those that only knew one side stayed sucking at mummy eu's teat
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 32,081
    Sandpit said:

    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    The Guardian is trolling Boris re his new baby son.

    Carrie Johnson, in the caption of an Instagram post with a picture of her holding the newborn, joked: “Welcome to the world Frank Alfred Odysseus Johnson born 5th July at 9.15am. (Can you guess which name my husband chose?!)”

    The former prime minister Boris Johnson is keen to be thought of as a scholar of the classics. In Greek mythology, Odysseus leaves behind his wife and child to seek adventure, encountering many other women along the way.
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/jul/11/carrie-boris-johnson-announce-birth-baby-boy-frank

    That’s what one might expect from the Mirror, not a supposedly-serious newspaper.

    No matter how much you dislike someone, wish them for positive life events.

    Interesting NY Times story about the FT and the Guardian though. Something of a fight coming between US and UK media groups I wonder?
    Not that interesting or it would have taken off when it was posted to pb weeks ago.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 9,185
    Sweden given the go-ahead by Türkiye to join NATO is big news here in Finland. Can't see anything about it in our main press
  • Penddu2Penddu2 Posts: 787
    Farooq said:

    IanB2 said:

    JosiasJessop said:

    IanB2 said:

    Experienced the Norwegian health service today, dropping in to their A&E because of a troublesome ear infection that hasn’t responded to over-the-counter stuff. My, was it impressive. More than anything it reminded me of the NHS we were supposed to be getting according to that Leave Campaign ad. More staff than patients, clean modern facilities, seen within ten minutes, blood test, doctor inspection, out within 45 minutes with a prescription, all for a £17 fee, the same that Norwegians pay, as my EHIC card hasn’t quite yet expired. Remarkable.

    Earlier I did another of Clarkson’s world’s best drives, over the Trollstigen, although it was so cloudy you could hardly see anything. But it was a fun drive.

    Since it’s grey and wet today, here’s a photo of a small lake from yesterday, dog for scale.


    I'm glad you had a good experience, and I hope you recover soon.

    But... when I stupidly broke my elbow in the arse-end of nowhere, Scotland, eight years ago, the GP and hospital service were first class. Really excellent. And that, IMO, is one of the NHS's biggest problems: the service is so incredibly spotty.

    And as I said earlier today, the problem is the bad experiences stick longer in your mind than the good.
    And in two weeks so far I’ve only met one person who wasn’t effectively fluent in English, and that was an old guy up in the hills and even he had a few words. Teaching it at school is one thing, but on that basis most of us in England would be fluent in French, and we’re not.

    The fact that the Vikings gifted us so many of our basic words helps a bit - a lot of Norwegian looks like English written by a eight-year-old:

    Kvikk Lunsj
    Ambulanse
    Iskrem
    Eple Pai
    Konferanse Senter
    Lokal Taxi
    Vi Er Apen
    Resepsjon
    "ambulance" and "reception" are from French
    I think you will find that it is from Welsh - Ambiwlans
    Same as Welsh Tacsi...
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,163
    geoffw said:

    Sweden given the go-ahead by Türkiye to join NATO is big news here in Finland. Can't see anything about it in our main press

    We don't want boring rubbish like that getting in the way of the Basil Brush scandal.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 12,226
    rottenborough said:

    geoffw said:

    Sweden given the go-ahead by Türkiye to join NATO is big news here in Finland. Can't see anything about it in our main press

    We don't want boring rubbish like that getting in the way of the Basil Brush scandal.
    Basil brush has been identified as the onlyfans user? I thought better of him
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 9,185
    edited July 2023
    SandraMc said:

    Did

    JosiasJessop said:

    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    PB history teachers need to see this film. It turns out they've been lying to us.

    He came from nothing. He conquered everything. From acclaimed director Ridley Scott, #Napoleon is Only In Cinemas November 22. Watch the official trailer now.
    https://twitter.com/SonyPicturesUK/status/1678374071598211075

    I saw that this morning, and it made me laugh. He hardly 'came from nothing';

    "His parents Carlo Maria di Buonaparte and Maria Letizia Ramolino maintained an ancestral home called "Casa Buonaparte" in Ajaccio."

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Napoleon

    I really don't get all the adoration for Napoleon - and that's not just because I'm British. So many deaths, all for his vanity.
    I've been to the house where he was born. It's nothing special.
    Isn't that exactly what is special about it?
    eta perhaps that was your point
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