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Some of the front pages from the Sundays – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,126
edited April 2023 in General
imageSome of the front pages from the Sundays – politicalbetting.com

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  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,578
    Is that a First?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,509
    Benpointer said:

    Is that a First?

    Yes
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,668
    I think we need some gentlemen’s wagers - and gentlewomen’s - on how long Starmer will take to suspend/expel Diane Abbott

    I bet 5 cyberbaht she’ll be out by teatime
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,125
    Leon said:

    I think we need some gentlemen’s wagers - and gentlewomen’s - on how long Starmer will take to suspend/expel Diane Abbott

    I bet 5 cyberbaht she’ll be out by teatime

    I used to have some sympathy for her, even though she obviously wasn't the sharpest tool in the shed and I don't agree with her politics, because she seemed to get an extra level of abuse because she is a black woman. But this is really unforgivable - she certainly should be finished now.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,578
    Leon said:

    I think we need some gentlemen’s wagers - and gentlewomen’s - on how long Starmer will take to suspend/expel Diane Abbott

    I bet 5 cyberbaht she’ll be out by teatime

    She should be - let's hope so.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,069
    kamski said:

    Leon said:

    I think we need some gentlemen’s wagers - and gentlewomen’s - on how long Starmer will take to suspend/expel Diane Abbott

    I bet 5 cyberbaht she’ll be out by teatime

    I used to have some sympathy for her, even though she obviously wasn't the sharpest tool in the shed and I don't agree with her politics, because she seemed to get an extra level of abuse because she is a black woman. But this is really unforgivable - she certainly should be finished now.
    It's amazing how effectively Team Corbyn have self-immolated since 2020. We're talking Russians standing by windows levels of disaster, except they've done it to themselves.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,830
    MaxPB said:

    We finished Severance last night, what a brilliant show. Probably the first since Stranger Things that is a reasonably original concept and hasn't already been done a zillion times.

    Apple TV is generally a bit rubbish but it's worth digging up a free 3 month subscription from somewhere for Severance and Slow Horses. Everything else on there is middling.

    It takes a basic joke - people are different at work than home life - and runs it into a really dark and weird premise. Really enjoyed it, though dont really see where it goes next.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,668
    kamski said:

    Leon said:

    I think we need some gentlemen’s wagers - and gentlewomen’s - on how long Starmer will take to suspend/expel Diane Abbott

    I bet 5 cyberbaht she’ll be out by teatime

    I used to have some sympathy for her, even though she obviously wasn't the sharpest tool in the shed and I don't agree with her politics, because she seemed to get an extra level of abuse because she is a black woman. But this is really unforgivable - she certainly should be finished now.
    She also doesn’t have the excuse of “slip of the tongue” or remarks “off the cuff”

    She literally sat down and wrote a letter to a newspaper saying that anti Jewish hatred in the 20th century was no worse than the teasing of red headed white people

    There is no way back from that. No possible excuse
  • spudgfshspudgfsh Posts: 1,490
    kamski said:

    Leon said:

    I think we need some gentlemen’s wagers - and gentlewomen’s - on how long Starmer will take to suspend/expel Diane Abbott

    I bet 5 cyberbaht she’ll be out by teatime

    I used to have some sympathy for her, even though she obviously wasn't the sharpest tool in the shed and I don't agree with her politics, because she seemed to get an extra level of abuse because she is a black woman. But this is really unforgivable - she certainly should be finished now.
    Sorry, I've just woken up, what has she done now?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,830
    It's funny how when you become an already rich politician you find friends are suddenly more willing to provide you with loads of free hospitality.

    I need better friends.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    And some other front pages.....






  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,668
    spudgfsh said:

    kamski said:

    Leon said:

    I think we need some gentlemen’s wagers - and gentlewomen’s - on how long Starmer will take to suspend/expel Diane Abbott

    I bet 5 cyberbaht she’ll be out by teatime

    I used to have some sympathy for her, even though she obviously wasn't the sharpest tool in the shed and I don't agree with her politics, because she seemed to get an extra level of abuse because she is a black woman. But this is really unforgivable - she certainly should be finished now.
    Sorry, I've just woken up, what has she done now?
    Sent THIS letter to the Observer


  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,830
    kamski said:

    Leon said:

    I think we need some gentlemen’s wagers - and gentlewomen’s - on how long Starmer will take to suspend/expel Diane Abbott

    I bet 5 cyberbaht she’ll be out by teatime

    I used to have some sympathy for her, even though she obviously wasn't the sharpest tool in the shed and I don't agree with her politics, because she seemed to get an extra level of abuse because she is a black woman. But this is really unforgivable - she certainly should be finished now.
    She does face a lot of abuse and should be defended by all sides for that. But she also does a lot of things that justify criticism and theres no getting away from that either.

    Theres not many left from when she was elected - it may be time anyway.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,578
    edited April 2023
    Fishing said:

    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    Today is St George's Day.

    Why the United States keeps getting richer – with Britain lagging ever further behind

    Britons will soon be “richer than Americans” read a BBC headline in January 2008.

    Forecasters were predicting that for the first time in more than a century, GDP per head in the UK would surpass that of the US.
    ...[snip]...
    Yet by 2021, GDP per head across the pond had increased by 15pc, while Britons were only 3pc better off than in 2008.
    ...[snip]...
    While the US economy was 5pc larger in the final three months of last year than before Covid, the UK remained 0.6pc poorer.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/04/23/us-richer-than-uk-finance-inflation-taxes/ (£££)

    The Telegraph does not quite say Britain's growth under Labour was snuffed out by Conservative governments but it does point to high tax rates under the blue team, contrasted with low tax rates and state intervention in America.

    Yes, Democrat America is following Conservative economic policies, while Conservative Britain (and much of Europe) is following Labour ones. With predictable results.
    So to summarise:

    While Labour were in power, Britain's GDP per capita was catching up with the US's.
    After 13 years of Tory rule we've slipped back by 12%.
    And that's Labour's fault.

    Right.

    Also, the sky at night is white and the shining moon is black.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,125
    Leon said:

    kamski said:

    Leon said:

    I think we need some gentlemen’s wagers - and gentlewomen’s - on how long Starmer will take to suspend/expel Diane Abbott

    I bet 5 cyberbaht she’ll be out by teatime

    I used to have some sympathy for her, even though she obviously wasn't the sharpest tool in the shed and I don't agree with her politics, because she seemed to get an extra level of abuse because she is a black woman. But this is really unforgivable - she certainly should be finished now.
    She also doesn’t have the excuse of “slip of the tongue” or remarks “off the cuff”

    She literally sat down and wrote a letter to a newspaper saying that anti Jewish hatred in the 20th century was no worse than the teasing of red headed white people

    There is no way back from that. No possible excuse
    Corbyn fans please explain?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,574
    Happy London Marathon and St George's Day, and the test of the government's shiny new alert system so domestic abusers will be able to find their partners' hidden phones.

    What is the point of this phone alert system?

    You may get alerts about severe flooding, fires, extreme weather
    Emergency alerts will only be sent by the emergency services, government departments, agencies and public bodies that deal with emergencies
    https://www.gov.uk/alerts

    Seriously, what is the point? We don't have natural disasters in this country, and bad weather is forecast a week in advance. Even terrorist outrages are extremely localised. Presumably some Oxford PPE types saw that other countries have similar systems and pushed it through to bolster their CVs. Within five years it will be used to warn about heavy traffic in Carshalton town centre.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    THE whistleblower who triggered a police probe into the SNP's funding and finances says there should be an inquiry into how the force 'dragged its feet' in pursuing the case - while he became a hate figure.

    He first lodged his complaint with police over two years ago, in late March, 2021 over how funds raised for a second independence referendum campaign had not been ringfenced and had been spent on other things without permission.....

    ...The whistleblower said that towards the end of 2021, he received "intimidation" on his doorstep from two officers who were querying what his motives were for lodging the complaint.

    "A sergeant and a police constable turned up at my door, in uniform," he recalled.

    "And they say what is all this about a complaint you have made to the police, why did you do it and blah blah blah, and it was intimidation on my doorstep. They are trying to pressurise me on the doorstep of my own home. It was very very strange."

    https://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/23473019.snp-finances-whistleblower-calls-inquiry-police-response/
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586
    Leon said:

    kamski said:

    Leon said:

    I think we need some gentlemen’s wagers - and gentlewomen’s - on how long Starmer will take to suspend/expel Diane Abbott

    I bet 5 cyberbaht she’ll be out by teatime

    I used to have some sympathy for her, even though she obviously wasn't the sharpest tool in the shed and I don't agree with her politics, because she seemed to get an extra level of abuse because she is a black woman. But this is really unforgivable - she certainly should be finished now.
    She also doesn’t have the excuse of “slip of the tongue” or remarks “off the cuff”

    She literally sat down and wrote a letter to a newspaper saying that anti Jewish hatred in the 20th century was no worse than the teasing of red headed white people

    There is no way back from that. No possible excuse
    Never go full Ken Livingstone
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,469
    Benpointer said:

    Fishing said:

    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    Today is St George's Day.

    Why the United States keeps getting richer – with Britain lagging ever further behind

    Britons will soon be “richer than Americans” read a BBC headline in January 2008.

    Forecasters were predicting that for the first time in more than a century, GDP per head in the UK would surpass that of the US.
    ...[snip]...
    Yet by 2021, GDP per head across the pond had increased by 15pc, while Britons were only 3pc better off than in 2008.
    ...[snip]...
    While the US economy was 5pc larger in the final three months of last year than before Covid, the UK remained 0.6pc poorer.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/04/23/us-richer-than-uk-finance-inflation-taxes/ (£££)

    The Telegraph does not quite say Britain's growth under Labour was snuffed out by Conservative governments but it does point to high tax rates under the blue team, contrasted with low tax rates and state intervention in America.

    Yes, Democrat America is following Conservative economic policies, while Conservative Britain (and much of Europe) is following Labour ones. With predictable results.
    So to summarise:

    While Labour were in power, Britain's GDP per capita was catching up with the US's.
    After 13 years of Tory rule we've slipped back by 12%.
    And that's Labour's fault.

    Right.

    Also, the sky at night is white and the shining moon is black.
    You think that the pre 2008 UK housing and finance bubble was sustainable and could be extrapolated forever ?

    Do I need to point out what happened to the UK economy a few weeks later ?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,574
    another_richard said:

    Benpointer said:

    Fishing said:

    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    Today is St George's Day.

    Why the United States keeps getting richer – with Britain lagging ever further behind

    Britons will soon be “richer than Americans” read a BBC headline in January 2008.

    Forecasters were predicting that for the first time in more than a century, GDP per head in the UK would surpass that of the US.
    ...[snip]...
    Yet by 2021, GDP per head across the pond had increased by 15pc, while Britons were only 3pc better off than in 2008.
    ...[snip]...
    While the US economy was 5pc larger in the final three months of last year than before Covid, the UK remained 0.6pc poorer.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/04/23/us-richer-than-uk-finance-inflation-taxes/ (£££)

    The Telegraph does not quite say Britain's growth under Labour was snuffed out by Conservative governments but it does point to high tax rates under the blue team, contrasted with low tax rates and state intervention in America.

    Yes, Democrat America is following Conservative economic policies, while Conservative Britain (and much of Europe) is following Labour ones. With predictable results.
    So to summarise:

    While Labour were in power, Britain's GDP per capita was catching up with the US's.
    After 13 years of Tory rule we've slipped back by 12%.
    And that's Labour's fault.

    Right.

    Also, the sky at night is white and the shining moon is black.
    You think that the pre 2008 UK housing and finance bubble was sustainable and could be extrapolated forever ?

    Do I need to point out what happened to the UK economy a few weeks later ?
    And you think the Global Financial Crisis "which started in America" had no effect in America?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,668
    Malmesbury said:

    Leon said:

    kamski said:

    Leon said:

    I think we need some gentlemen’s wagers - and gentlewomen’s - on how long Starmer will take to suspend/expel Diane Abbott

    I bet 5 cyberbaht she’ll be out by teatime

    I used to have some sympathy for her, even though she obviously wasn't the sharpest tool in the shed and I don't agree with her politics, because she seemed to get an extra level of abuse because she is a black woman. But this is really unforgivable - she certainly should be finished now.
    She also doesn’t have the excuse of “slip of the tongue” or remarks “off the cuff”

    She literally sat down and wrote a letter to a newspaper saying that anti Jewish hatred in the 20th century was no worse than the teasing of red headed white people

    There is no way back from that. No possible excuse
    Never go full Ken Livingstone
    She also ignores: Hitler’s gassing of Roma, his enslavement of Slavs, the long history of Barbary slaving of white people, Asian grooming gangs racially targeting white and Sikh girls, and on and on

    Sadly human history is full of examples of brutal racial and religious prejudice on all sides. And the attempted extermination of the Jews was possibly the very worst. But no, Diane thinks that was just like teasing ginger haired people

    The letter is some distance beyond offensive. It seems to be deliberately appalling

    Come on Sir Keir, time to show that “ruthless” side
  • spudgfshspudgfsh Posts: 1,490
    Leon said:

    spudgfsh said:

    kamski said:

    Leon said:

    I think we need some gentlemen’s wagers - and gentlewomen’s - on how long Starmer will take to suspend/expel Diane Abbott

    I bet 5 cyberbaht she’ll be out by teatime

    I used to have some sympathy for her, even though she obviously wasn't the sharpest tool in the shed and I don't agree with her politics, because she seemed to get an extra level of abuse because she is a black woman. But this is really unforgivable - she certainly should be finished now.
    Sorry, I've just woken up, what has she done now?
    Sent THIS letter to the Observer


    while shocking it's not surprising. I can understand why she's said it that way she's subject to large volumes of abuse (most of it sexist and racist) and being on the receiving end of that can cloud your judgement.

    it doesn't make it right and she should be suspended from the party because of it.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Ooouf!

    .@HackneyAbbott is right on one point: my relatives were never forced to sit at the back of the bus.

    There aren’t any seats on cattle trucks.

    Otherwise, minimising anti-Jewish racism as mere ‘prejudice’ is shameful from someone who takes the Labour whip.

    https://twitter.com/DXW_KC/status/1650057487263887365?s=20
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,226
    edited April 2023
    Benpointer said:

    Fishing said:

    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    Today is St George's Day.

    Why the United States keeps getting richer – with Britain lagging ever further behind

    Britons will soon be “richer than Americans” read a BBC headline in January 2008.

    Forecasters were predicting that for the first time in more than a century, GDP per head in the UK would surpass that of the US.
    ...[snip]...
    Yet by 2021, GDP per head across the pond had increased by 15pc, while Britons were only 3pc better off than in 2008.
    ...[snip]...
    While the US economy was 5pc larger in the final three months of last year than before Covid, the UK remained 0.6pc poorer.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/04/23/us-richer-than-uk-finance-inflation-taxes/ (£££)

    The Telegraph does not quite say Britain's growth under Labour was snuffed out by Conservative governments but it does point to high tax rates under the blue team, contrasted with low tax rates and state intervention in America.

    Yes, Democrat America is following Conservative economic policies, while Conservative Britain (and much of Europe) is following Labour ones. With predictable results.
    So to summarise:

    While Labour were in power, Britain's GDP per capita was catching up with the US's.
    After 13 years of Tory rule we've slipped back by 12%.
    And that's Labour's fault.

    Right.

    Also, the sky at night is white and the shining moon is black.
    Also Biden has increased spending in the US more than any President since LBJ and also increased taxes on the wealthiest. He is well left of Sunak and Hunt and arguably left of Starmer economically now. Though the fact the GOP now control the House of Representatives will control him from further excessive leftist economics
  • TheValiantTheValiant Posts: 1,873
    edited April 2023
    kle4 said:

    It's funny how when you become an already rich politician you find friends are suddenly more willing to provide you with loads of free hospitality.

    I need better friends.

    My wife has a friend who has a local charitable theatre company. It's more about getting disadvantaged people into the production than the production itself, and a ticket price is charged.
    She occassionally puts on big productions and because of the work my friend does, she's earned an MBE (and probably one of the few who deserves it). Anyway, she therefore gets bigwigs turning up for a publicity show around. She had (then) Prince Charles a few years ago.

    She never puts on the full production for these people, only a shortened one. When asked, she said, "These people are already insanely rich and well connected, whilst the average joe on the street has to pay to see this production. If they want to see the whole thing, they can join the queue and pay the price on the door like everyone else."

    Very refreshing attitude.

    Rich people can stay rich by other people giving them stuff for free.......
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,125
    Malmesbury said:

    Leon said:

    kamski said:

    Leon said:

    I think we need some gentlemen’s wagers - and gentlewomen’s - on how long Starmer will take to suspend/expel Diane Abbott

    I bet 5 cyberbaht she’ll be out by teatime

    I used to have some sympathy for her, even though she obviously wasn't the sharpest tool in the shed and I don't agree with her politics, because she seemed to get an extra level of abuse because she is a black woman. But this is really unforgivable - she certainly should be finished now.
    She also doesn’t have the excuse of “slip of the tongue” or remarks “off the cuff”

    She literally sat down and wrote a letter to a newspaper saying that anti Jewish hatred in the 20th century was no worse than the teasing of red headed white people

    There is no way back from that. No possible excuse
    Never go full Ken Livingstone
    Probably actually worse than Livingstone's claims that Hitler supported Zionism before deciding on genocide instead?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,314
    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    Happy London Marathon and St George's Day, and the test of the government's shiny new alert system so domestic abusers will be able to find their partners' hidden phones.

    What is the point of this phone alert system?

    You may get alerts about severe flooding, fires, extreme weather
    Emergency alerts will only be sent by the emergency services, government departments, agencies and public bodies that deal with emergencies
    https://www.gov.uk/alerts

    Seriously, what is the point? We don't have natural disasters in this country, and bad weather is forecast a week in advance. Even terrorist outrages are extremely localised. Presumably some Oxford PPE types saw that other countries have similar systems and pushed it through to bolster their CVs. Within five years it will be used to warn about heavy traffic in Carshalton town centre.

    Yes, the fact is that the system exists and has been promoted to governments. So governments think they need to use it. It makes sense for earthquake zones - like, oh, San Francisco where all the companies developing this tech are based, or where there’s a risk of sudden weather.

    It will end up being used for trivial things, and most people will therefore disable it.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,488
    Her only hope is if the letter was abbreviated by The Observer as they are entitled to do, and the full version isn't as bad.
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,317
    edited April 2023
    Leon said:

    kamski said:

    Leon said:

    I think we need some gentlemen’s wagers - and gentlewomen’s - on how long Starmer will take to suspend/expel Diane Abbott

    I bet 5 cyberbaht she’ll be out by teatime

    I used to have some sympathy for her, even though she obviously wasn't the sharpest tool in the shed and I don't agree with her politics, because she seemed to get an extra level of abuse because she is a black woman. But this is really unforgivable - she certainly should be finished now.
    She also doesn’t have the excuse of “slip of the tongue” or remarks “off the cuff”

    She literally sat down and wrote a letter to a newspaper saying that anti Jewish hatred in the 20th century was no worse than the teasing of red headed white people

    There is no way back from that. No possible excuse
    I've been saying for a while that the no.1 risk for labour is that it's corbyn influx of MP's sabotage its electoral prospects. These comments from Abbot are just an absolute gift to labour's enemies. It manages to do two things, restart the anti-semitism debate, and also set different identity groups within the party off against each other, embroiling its MP's and activists in a heated, self destructive debate which has nothing at all to do with trying to win the next election.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Breaking:
    @TheStudyofWar reports that Ukrainian forces have established positions in east (left) bank of Dnipro in Kherson Oblast as of yesterday. The institute cites textual and geocofirmed graphical evidence by Russian military bloggers.

    This is important. 1/

    https://twitter.com/Mylovanov/status/1650051323813847041?s=20
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,574
    spudgfsh said:

    Leon said:

    spudgfsh said:

    kamski said:

    Leon said:

    I think we need some gentlemen’s wagers - and gentlewomen’s - on how long Starmer will take to suspend/expel Diane Abbott

    I bet 5 cyberbaht she’ll be out by teatime

    I used to have some sympathy for her, even though she obviously wasn't the sharpest tool in the shed and I don't agree with her politics, because she seemed to get an extra level of abuse because she is a black woman. But this is really unforgivable - she certainly should be finished now.
    Sorry, I've just woken up, what has she done now?
    Sent THIS letter to the Observer


    while shocking it's not surprising. I can understand why she's said it that way she's subject to large volumes of abuse (most of it sexist and racist) and being on the receiving end of that can cloud your judgement.

    it doesn't make it right and she should be suspended from the party because of it.
    Abbott has in the past called for Starmer to quit. He can now return the favour.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,205
    edited April 2023
    kamski said:

    Leon said:

    I think we need some gentlemen’s wagers - and gentlewomen’s - on how long Starmer will take to suspend/expel Diane Abbott

    I bet 5 cyberbaht she’ll be out by teatime

    I used to have some sympathy for her, even though she obviously wasn't the sharpest tool in the shed and I don't agree with her politics, because she seemed to get an extra level of abuse because she is a black woman. But this is really unforgivable - she certainly should be finished now.
    "she seemed to get an extra level of abuse because she is a black woman"

    ISTR that she did not get any extraordinary abuse; and other MPs received much more:

    As an example, this paints a different story:
    https://www.buzzfeed.com/tomphillips/twitter-abuse-of-mps-during-the-election-doubled-after-the

    Or this, more recent one:
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-63330885

    Edit:
    And this:
    https://usir.salford.ac.uk/id/eprint/47069/3/MPs abuse v6.pdf

    All such abuse is wrong; but the figures seem to paint a different picture. (I think there was an earlier study as well with similar results).
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,314
    spudgfsh said:

    Leon said:

    spudgfsh said:

    kamski said:

    Leon said:

    I think we need some gentlemen’s wagers - and gentlewomen’s - on how long Starmer will take to suspend/expel Diane Abbott

    I bet 5 cyberbaht she’ll be out by teatime

    I used to have some sympathy for her, even though she obviously wasn't the sharpest tool in the shed and I don't agree with her politics, because she seemed to get an extra level of abuse because she is a black woman. But this is really unforgivable - she certainly should be finished now.
    Sorry, I've just woken up, what has she done now?
    Sent THIS letter to the Observer


    while shocking it's not surprising. I can understand why she's said it that way she's subject to large volumes of abuse (most of it sexist and racist) and being on the receiving end of that can cloud your judgement.

    it doesn't make it right and she should be suspended from the party because of it.
    The problem she has, is that a lot of what she calls sexist and racist, is actually numerist and stupidist.

    She wasn’t being called out for being a black woman, she was being called out for being innumerate and illiterate.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,125
    darkage said:

    Leon said:

    kamski said:

    Leon said:

    I think we need some gentlemen’s wagers - and gentlewomen’s - on how long Starmer will take to suspend/expel Diane Abbott

    I bet 5 cyberbaht she’ll be out by teatime

    I used to have some sympathy for her, even though she obviously wasn't the sharpest tool in the shed and I don't agree with her politics, because she seemed to get an extra level of abuse because she is a black woman. But this is really unforgivable - she certainly should be finished now.
    She also doesn’t have the excuse of “slip of the tongue” or remarks “off the cuff”

    She literally sat down and wrote a letter to a newspaper saying that anti Jewish hatred in the 20th century was no worse than the teasing of red headed white people

    There is no way back from that. No possible excuse
    I've been saying for a while that the no.1 risk for labour is that it's corbyn influx of MP's sabotage its electoral prospects. These comments from Abbot are just an absolute gift to labour's enemies. It manages to do two things, restart the anti-semitism debate, and also set different identity groups within the party off against each other, embroiling its MP's and activists in a heated, self destructive debate which has nothing at all to do with trying to win the next election.
    Otoh her remarks are so obviously stupid that I doubt anyone will defend them, so easy for Starmer to get rid of her. Might be a net positive for Labour.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,469
    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    another_richard said:

    Benpointer said:

    Fishing said:

    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    Today is St George's Day.

    Why the United States keeps getting richer – with Britain lagging ever further behind

    Britons will soon be “richer than Americans” read a BBC headline in January 2008.

    Forecasters were predicting that for the first time in more than a century, GDP per head in the UK would surpass that of the US.
    ...[snip]...
    Yet by 2021, GDP per head across the pond had increased by 15pc, while Britons were only 3pc better off than in 2008.
    ...[snip]...
    While the US economy was 5pc larger in the final three months of last year than before Covid, the UK remained 0.6pc poorer.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/04/23/us-richer-than-uk-finance-inflation-taxes/ (£££)

    The Telegraph does not quite say Britain's growth under Labour was snuffed out by Conservative governments but it does point to high tax rates under the blue team, contrasted with low tax rates and state intervention in America.

    Yes, Democrat America is following Conservative economic policies, while Conservative Britain (and much of Europe) is following Labour ones. With predictable results.
    So to summarise:

    While Labour were in power, Britain's GDP per capita was catching up with the US's.
    After 13 years of Tory rule we've slipped back by 12%.
    And that's Labour's fault.

    Right.

    Also, the sky at night is white and the shining moon is black.
    You think that the pre 2008 UK housing and finance bubble was sustainable and could be extrapolated forever ?

    Do I need to point out what happened to the UK economy a few weeks later ?
    And you think the Global Financial Crisis "which started in America" had no effect in America?
    Which part of America is Northern Rock in ?

    While all the world was affected to varying degrees the UK had focussed its economy into a housing bubble and finance far more than most.

    For example the USA has developed a huge shale gas industry allowing cheaper energy to boost its economy generally whereas in the UK shale gas has never got started.

    I doubt in the USA you will find many who advocate basing their economy on the New York financial sector whereas in the UK basing the economy the London financial sector is still advocated by various well connected people.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,314
    CarlottaVance said:

    Breaking:
    @TheStudyofWar reports that Ukrainian forces have established positions in east (left) bank of Dnipro in Kherson Oblast as of yesterday. The institute cites textual and geocofirmed graphical evidence by Russian military bloggers.

    This is important. 1/

    https://twitter.com/Mylovanov/status/1650051323813847041?s=20

    Looking good for the Sping Offensive, from the Ukranians.
  • DialupDialup Posts: 561
    I can’t wait for Novara Media to explain this one away
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,578
    Looks like Diane's got an, er, residual bit of Jeremy in her :lol:
  • DialupDialup Posts: 561
    https://twitter.com/lisanandy/status/1650068931615285248

    More of this please
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,226
    another_richard said:

    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    another_richard said:

    Benpointer said:

    Fishing said:

    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    Today is St George's Day.

    Why the United States keeps getting richer – with Britain lagging ever further behind

    Britons will soon be “richer than Americans” read a BBC headline in January 2008.

    Forecasters were predicting that for the first time in more than a century, GDP per head in the UK would surpass that of the US.
    ...[snip]...
    Yet by 2021, GDP per head across the pond had increased by 15pc, while Britons were only 3pc better off than in 2008.
    ...[snip]...
    While the US economy was 5pc larger in the final three months of last year than before Covid, the UK remained 0.6pc poorer.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/04/23/us-richer-than-uk-finance-inflation-taxes/ (£££)

    The Telegraph does not quite say Britain's growth under Labour was snuffed out by Conservative governments but it does point to high tax rates under the blue team, contrasted with low tax rates and state intervention in America.

    Yes, Democrat America is following Conservative economic policies, while Conservative Britain (and much of Europe) is following Labour ones. With predictable results.
    So to summarise:

    While Labour were in power, Britain's GDP per capita was catching up with the US's.
    After 13 years of Tory rule we've slipped back by 12%.
    And that's Labour's fault.

    Right.

    Also, the sky at night is white and the shining moon is black.
    You think that the pre 2008 UK housing and finance bubble was sustainable and could be extrapolated forever ?

    Do I need to point out what happened to the UK economy a few weeks later ?
    And you think the Global Financial Crisis "which started in America" had no effect in America?
    Which part of America is Northern Rock in ?

    While all the world was affected to varying degrees the UK had focussed its economy into a housing bubble and finance far more than most.

    For example the USA has developed a huge shale gas industry allowing cheaper energy to boost its economy generally whereas in the UK shale gas has never got started.

    I doubt in the USA you will find many who advocate basing their economy on the New York financial sector whereas in the UK basing the economy the London financial sector is still advocated by various well connected people.
    The US financial centre is still New York City by a clear margin and the tech centre around Seattle and San Francisco. Middle America is largely ignored, hence Trump won in 2016 and Biden had to push a blue-collar, pro manufacturing message to win back the White House
  • DialupDialup Posts: 561
    Sandpit said:

    spudgfsh said:

    Leon said:

    spudgfsh said:

    kamski said:

    Leon said:

    I think we need some gentlemen’s wagers - and gentlewomen’s - on how long Starmer will take to suspend/expel Diane Abbott

    I bet 5 cyberbaht she’ll be out by teatime

    I used to have some sympathy for her, even though she obviously wasn't the sharpest tool in the shed and I don't agree with her politics, because she seemed to get an extra level of abuse because she is a black woman. But this is really unforgivable - she certainly should be finished now.
    Sorry, I've just woken up, what has she done now?
    Sent THIS letter to the Observer


    while shocking it's not surprising. I can understand why she's said it that way she's subject to large volumes of abuse (most of it sexist and racist) and being on the receiving end of that can cloud your judgement.

    it doesn't make it right and she should be suspended from the party because of it.
    The problem she has, is that a lot of what she calls sexist and racist, is actually numerist and stupidist.

    She wasn’t being called out for being a black woman, she was being called out for being innumerate and illiterate.
    In that particular case I thoroughly disagree because on the same day a Tory MP did the same and it was ignored.

    On the rest of what you said I agree with you. She should be expelled
  • spudgfshspudgfsh Posts: 1,490
    carnforth said:

    Her only hope is if the letter was abbreviated by The Observer as they are entitled to do, and the full version isn't as bad.

    I suspect that any fuller version could be worse
  • DialupDialup Posts: 561
    How have Britons' financial situations changed in the last three months? (16 April)

    Worsened: 52% (+3)
    Stayed the same: 34% ­(-2)
    Improved: 14% (-1)

    Changes +/- 9 April

    Underneath the polling boost, normal people are still feeling the hurt from the economy.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,141
    CarlottaVance said:

    Ooouf!

    .@HackneyAbbott is right on one point: my relatives were never forced to sit at the back of the bus.

    There aren’t any seats on cattle trucks.

    Otherwise, minimising anti-Jewish racism as mere ‘prejudice’ is shameful from someone who takes the Labour whip.

    https://twitter.com/DXW_KC/status/1650057487263887365?s=20

    Ouch!

    I would say there is no large group of people who have suffered worse discrimination than the Jews, over the past two thousand years, beginning with Hadrian’s attempt at genocide.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,668
    kamski said:

    darkage said:

    Leon said:

    kamski said:

    Leon said:

    I think we need some gentlemen’s wagers - and gentlewomen’s - on how long Starmer will take to suspend/expel Diane Abbott

    I bet 5 cyberbaht she’ll be out by teatime

    I used to have some sympathy for her, even though she obviously wasn't the sharpest tool in the shed and I don't agree with her politics, because she seemed to get an extra level of abuse because she is a black woman. But this is really unforgivable - she certainly should be finished now.
    She also doesn’t have the excuse of “slip of the tongue” or remarks “off the cuff”

    She literally sat down and wrote a letter to a newspaper saying that anti Jewish hatred in the 20th century was no worse than the teasing of red headed white people

    There is no way back from that. No possible excuse
    I've been saying for a while that the no.1 risk for labour is that it's corbyn influx of MP's sabotage its electoral prospects. These comments from Abbot are just an absolute gift to labour's enemies. It manages to do two things, restart the anti-semitism debate, and also set different identity groups within the party off against each other, embroiling its MP's and activists in a heated, self destructive debate which has nothing at all to do with trying to win the next election.
    Otoh her remarks are so obviously stupid that I doubt anyone will defend them, so easy for Starmer to get rid of her. Might be a net positive for Labour.
    What has Starmer got to lose in expelling her? Not much. He has quite a lot to lose by tolerating this

    Seems a no brainer
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Patten I can understand, but Ashton? What notable contribution have I missed?

    https://www.royal.uk/news-and-activity/2023-04-23/new-appointments-to-the-order-of-the-garter
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,226
    Judge Rinder tipped to be next Conservative candidate for London Mayor
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12004003/TVs-Judge-Rinder-tipped-Tory-candidate-London-mayor-bid-topple-Sadiq-Khan-year.html
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,095
    Benpointer said:

    Fishing said:

    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    Today is St George's Day.

    Why the United States keeps getting richer – with Britain lagging ever further behind

    Britons will soon be “richer than Americans” read a BBC headline in January 2008.

    Forecasters were predicting that for the first time in more than a century, GDP per head in the UK would surpass that of the US.
    ...[snip]...
    Yet by 2021, GDP per head across the pond had increased by 15pc, while Britons were only 3pc better off than in 2008.
    ...[snip]...
    While the US economy was 5pc larger in the final three months of last year than before Covid, the UK remained 0.6pc poorer.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/04/23/us-richer-than-uk-finance-inflation-taxes/ (£££)

    The Telegraph does not quite say Britain's growth under Labour was snuffed out by Conservative governments but it does point to high tax rates under the blue team, contrasted with low tax rates and state intervention in America.

    Yes, Democrat America is following Conservative economic policies, while Conservative Britain (and much of Europe) is following Labour ones. With predictable results.
    So to summarise:

    While Labour were in power, Britain's GDP per capita was catching up with the US's.
    After 13 years of Tory rule we've slipped back by 12%.
    And that's Labour's fault.

    Right.

    Also, the sky at night is white and the shining moon is black.
    The baseline used in the report was a mirage

  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,574
    CarlottaVance said:

    Patten I can understand, but Ashton? What notable contribution have I missed?

    https://www.royal.uk/news-and-activity/2023-04-23/new-appointments-to-the-order-of-the-garter

    It tells you at your link.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,095
    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    Happy London Marathon and St George's Day, and the test of the government's shiny new alert system so domestic abusers will be able to find their partners' hidden phones.

    What is the point of this phone alert system?

    You may get alerts about severe flooding, fires, extreme weather
    Emergency alerts will only be sent by the emergency services, government departments, agencies and public bodies that deal with emergencies
    https://www.gov.uk/alerts

    Seriously, what is the point? We don't have natural disasters in this country, and bad weather is forecast a week in advance. Even terrorist outrages are extremely localised. Presumably some Oxford PPE types saw that other countries have similar systems and pushed it through to bolster their CVs. Within five years it will be used to warn about heavy traffic in Carshalton town centre.

    I get the alerts quite regularly, Amber Alerts being the most notable.

    They are a good idea. Why people have decided to attack the government on this I don’t know.

  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,574
    HYUFD said:

    Judge Rinder tipped to be next Conservative candidate for London Mayor
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12004003/TVs-Judge-Rinder-tipped-Tory-candidate-London-mayor-bid-topple-Sadiq-Khan-year.html

    If the government wants to topple Sadiq Khan, it should introduce term limits.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,661
    Abbott is just defending her patch which is ownership of racism issues by defining them as exclusively white on black. She correctly senses that other groups encroaching on her victimhood territory dilutes it.
  • AramintaMoonbeamQCAramintaMoonbeamQC Posts: 3,854
    That was quick

    https://twitter.com/HackneyAbbott/status/1650072333527252994
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,578
    Had some sunshine earlier in east London, but now the Marathon's started, the heavens have opened!
  • stjohnstjohn Posts: 1,861
    dixiedean posted this on April 11th

    Betting post.

    WC snooker starts Saturday.
    There has long been a suspicion that the hordes of talented young Chinese underperform at big moments.
    There has also been an idea as to why.
    A certain dark influence player, with a track record of violent, controlling behaviour has been taken out of the equation and identified as the ringleader in the current match fixing scandal.
    Several highly talented Chinese are currently suspended.
    However. In qualifying, the ones who aren't banned, are finally freed up to play to their potential at big moments.
    Half the qualifiers for the Crucible have been decided tonight. (Other half tomorrow).

    Si Jiahui (20), Wu Yize (19) and Fan Zhengyi (22) have qualified and will be seriously overpriced assuming a non fixed match whoever they play in the first round. (We don't know the draw yet). But they are all ranked way lower than their ability.
    In addition, the winner of Xu Si (25) v Pang Junxu (23) will qualify tomorrow.
    They'll be the same.
    For context with those ages. The average age of the Top 16 is over 40.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,578
    HYUFD said:

    Judge Rinder tipped to be next Conservative candidate for London Mayor
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12004003/TVs-Judge-Rinder-tipped-Tory-candidate-London-mayor-bid-topple-Sadiq-Khan-year.html

    I guess Judge Judy isn't eligible!
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860
    spudgfsh said:

    Leon said:

    spudgfsh said:

    kamski said:

    Leon said:

    I think we need some gentlemen’s wagers - and gentlewomen’s - on how long Starmer will take to suspend/expel Diane Abbott

    I bet 5 cyberbaht she’ll be out by teatime

    I used to have some sympathy for her, even though she obviously wasn't the sharpest tool in the shed and I don't agree with her politics, because she seemed to get an extra level of abuse because she is a black woman. But this is really unforgivable - she certainly should be finished now.
    Sorry, I've just woken up, what has she done now?
    Sent THIS letter to the Observer


    while shocking it's not surprising. I can understand why she's said it that way she's subject to large volumes of abuse (most of it sexist and racist) and being on the receiving end of that can cloud your judgement.

    it doesn't make it right and she should be suspended from the party because of it.
    Pretty much agree. It’s a really daft letter and while I’ve always felt sympathetic to her, I think this has to mean a suspension.

    I never really understand why we play this Top Trumps Atrocities game. To put it extremely mildly, it misses the point when we discuss and consider these things.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,668
    Sean_F said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    Ooouf!

    .@HackneyAbbott is right on one point: my relatives were never forced to sit at the back of the bus.

    There aren’t any seats on cattle trucks.

    Otherwise, minimising anti-Jewish racism as mere ‘prejudice’ is shameful from someone who takes the Labour whip.

    https://twitter.com/DXW_KC/status/1650057487263887365?s=20

    Ouch!

    I would say there is no large group of people who have suffered worse discrimination than the Jews, over the past two thousand years, beginning with Hadrian’s attempt at genocide.
    Indeed, one explanation for the average high IQ of Ashkenazi Jews - about 115, compared to the average 100 of humanity in general - is that they suffered so much persecution and murder over the centuries only the very brightest survived. Also this prejudice against them made Jews prize education and scholarship more than most people - as they were excluded from other areas of life - another eugenic pressure on them

    The over representation of Jews in Nobel prize winners is quite extraordinary, for instance
  • stjohnstjohn Posts: 1,861
    stjohn said:

    dixiedean posted this on April 11th

    Betting post.

    WC snooker starts Saturday.
    There has long been a suspicion that the hordes of talented young Chinese underperform at big moments.
    There has also been an idea as to why.
    A certain dark influence player, with a track record of violent, controlling behaviour has been taken out of the equation and identified as the ringleader in the current match fixing scandal.
    Several highly talented Chinese are currently suspended.
    However. In qualifying, the ones who aren't banned, are finally freed up to play to their potential at big moments.
    Half the qualifiers for the Crucible have been decided tonight. (Other half tomorrow).

    Si Jiahui (20), Wu Yize (19) and Fan Zhengyi (22) have qualified and will be seriously overpriced assuming a non fixed match whoever they play in the first round. (We don't know the draw yet). But they are all ranked way lower than their ability.
    In addition, the winner of Xu Si (25) v Pang Junxu (23) will qualify tomorrow.
    They'll be the same.
    For context with those ages. The average age of the Top 16 is over 40.


    I had

    £10 win Si Jiahui at 444
    £10 win Fan Zhengyi at 498
    £10 win Wu Yize at 1000

    Si Jiahui is now 15/1 to win the title!
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,509
    HYUFD said:

    another_richard said:

    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    another_richard said:

    Benpointer said:

    Fishing said:

    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    Today is St George's Day.

    Why the United States keeps getting richer – with Britain lagging ever further behind

    Britons will soon be “richer than Americans” read a BBC headline in January 2008.

    Forecasters were predicting that for the first time in more than a century, GDP per head in the UK would surpass that of the US.
    ...[snip]...
    Yet by 2021, GDP per head across the pond had increased by 15pc, while Britons were only 3pc better off than in 2008.
    ...[snip]...
    While the US economy was 5pc larger in the final three months of last year than before Covid, the UK remained 0.6pc poorer.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/04/23/us-richer-than-uk-finance-inflation-taxes/ (£££)

    The Telegraph does not quite say Britain's growth under Labour was snuffed out by Conservative governments but it does point to high tax rates under the blue team, contrasted with low tax rates and state intervention in America.

    Yes, Democrat America is following Conservative economic policies, while Conservative Britain (and much of Europe) is following Labour ones. With predictable results.
    So to summarise:

    While Labour were in power, Britain's GDP per capita was catching up with the US's.
    After 13 years of Tory rule we've slipped back by 12%.
    And that's Labour's fault.

    Right.

    Also, the sky at night is white and the shining moon is black.
    You think that the pre 2008 UK housing and finance bubble was sustainable and could be extrapolated forever ?

    Do I need to point out what happened to the UK economy a few weeks later ?
    And you think the Global Financial Crisis "which started in America" had no effect in America?
    Which part of America is Northern Rock in ?

    While all the world was affected to varying degrees the UK had focussed its economy into a housing bubble and finance far more than most.

    For example the USA has developed a huge shale gas industry allowing cheaper energy to boost its economy generally whereas in the UK shale gas has never got started.

    I doubt in the USA you will find many who advocate basing their economy on the New York financial sector whereas in the UK basing the economy the London financial sector is still advocated by various well connected people.
    The US financial centre is still New York City by a clear margin and the tech centre around Seattle and San Francisco. Middle America is largely ignored, hence Trump won in 2016 and Biden had to push a blue-collar, pro manufacturing message to win back the White House
    Most of which measures the Republicans voted against.
    While welcoming the investment in the states they govern.
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860
    StillWaters said:

    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    Happy London Marathon and St George's Day, and the test of the government's shiny new alert system so domestic abusers will be able to find their partners' hidden phones.

    What is the point of this phone alert system?

    You may get alerts about severe flooding, fires, extreme weather
    Emergency alerts will only be sent by the emergency services, government departments, agencies and public bodies that deal with emergencies
    https://www.gov.uk/alerts

    Seriously, what is the point? We don't have natural disasters in this country, and bad weather is forecast a week in advance. Even terrorist outrages are extremely localised. Presumably some Oxford PPE types saw that other countries have similar systems and pushed it through to bolster their CVs. Within five years it will be used to warn about heavy traffic in Carshalton town centre.

    I get the alerts quite regularly, Amber Alerts being the most notable.

    They are a good idea. Why people have decided to attack the government on this I don’t know.

    Yeah, it’s gone a bit weird. A big crossover the ‘take your own pen into the polling booth’ brigade.

    Personally I think it’s about time we something about these government controlled street lights, controlling what we can and can’t see.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,314
    HYUFD said:

    Judge Rinder tipped to be next Conservative candidate for London Mayor
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12004003/TVs-Judge-Rinder-tipped-Tory-candidate-London-mayor-bid-topple-Sadiq-Khan-year.html

    There you go - Tories politicising the judiciary. Civil Service next.... :)
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,136
    edited April 2023
    "Diane Abbott MP
    @HackneyAbbott
    ·
    9m
    My statement"

    https://twitter.com/HackneyAbbott/status/1650072333527252994
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,509
    Northern_Al said:

    Sandpit said:

    spudgfsh said:

    Leon said:

    spudgfsh said:

    kamski said:

    Leon said:

    I think we need some gentlemen’s wagers - and gentlewomen’s - on how long Starmer will take to suspend/expel Diane Abbott

    I bet 5 cyberbaht she’ll be out by teatime

    I used to have some sympathy for her, even though she obviously wasn't the sharpest tool in the shed and I don't agree with her politics, because she seemed to get an extra level of abuse because she is a black woman. But this is really unforgivable - she certainly should be finished now.
    Sorry, I've just woken up, what has she done now?
    Sent THIS letter to the Observer


    while shocking it's not surprising. I can understand why she's said it that way she's subject to large volumes of abuse (most of it sexist and racist) and being on the receiving end of that can cloud your judgement.

    it doesn't make it right and she should be suspended from the party because of it.
    The problem she has, is that a lot of what she calls sexist and racist, is actually numerist and stupidist.

    She wasn’t being called out for being a black woman, she was being called out for being innumerate and illiterate.
    That's neither fair nor accurate. Yes, Abbott has received abuse because of her abilities. But she has also, in the 35 years she's been an MP, received huge amounts of abuse from racists, misogynists and others about her race and other physical characteristics that are unrelated to her abilities.
    I have no time for her at all, but that's fair comment.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,125
    AramintaMoonbeamQC said:

    That was quick

    https://twitter.com/HackneyAbbott/status/1650072333527252994

    Sent the first draft by mistake doesn't cut it in this case. What would the final draft have looked like? Even if you take out the reference to redheads it's still awful.
  • AramintaMoonbeamQCAramintaMoonbeamQC Posts: 3,854
    kamski said:

    AramintaMoonbeamQC said:

    That was quick

    https://twitter.com/HackneyAbbott/status/1650072333527252994

    Sent the first draft by mistake doesn't cut it in this case. What would the final draft have looked like? Even if you take out the reference to redheads it's still awful.
    'This is what I actually thought, but now realise it makes me look bad'.

    Isn't she the MP for Stamford Hill?
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,661
    AramintaMoonbeamQC said:

    kamski said:

    AramintaMoonbeamQC said:

    That was quick

    https://twitter.com/HackneyAbbott/status/1650072333527252994

    Sent the first draft by mistake doesn't cut it in this case. What would the final draft have looked like? Even if you take out the reference to redheads it's still awful.
    'This is what I actually thought, but now realise it makes me look bad'.

    Isn't she the MP for Stamford Hill?
    "the largest concentration of Hasidic Jews in Europe"

  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,344
    geoffw said:

    AramintaMoonbeamQC said:

    kamski said:

    AramintaMoonbeamQC said:

    That was quick

    https://twitter.com/HackneyAbbott/status/1650072333527252994

    Sent the first draft by mistake doesn't cut it in this case. What would the final draft have looked like? Even if you take out the reference to redheads it's still awful.
    'This is what I actually thought, but now realise it makes me look bad'.

    Isn't she the MP for Stamford Hill?
    "the largest concentration of Hasidic Jews in Europe"

    Apart from Canvey Island?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,796
    Ghedebrav said:

    spudgfsh said:

    Leon said:

    spudgfsh said:

    kamski said:

    Leon said:

    I think we need some gentlemen’s wagers - and gentlewomen’s - on how long Starmer will take to suspend/expel Diane Abbott

    I bet 5 cyberbaht she’ll be out by teatime

    I used to have some sympathy for her, even though she obviously wasn't the sharpest tool in the shed and I don't agree with her politics, because she seemed to get an extra level of abuse because she is a black woman. But this is really unforgivable - she certainly should be finished now.
    Sorry, I've just woken up, what has she done now?
    Sent THIS letter to the Observer


    while shocking it's not surprising. I can understand why she's said it that way she's subject to large volumes of abuse (most of it sexist and racist) and being on the receiving end of that can cloud your judgement.

    it doesn't make it right and she should be suspended from the party because of it.
    Pretty much agree. It’s a really daft letter and while I’ve always felt sympathetic to her, I think this has to mean a suspension.

    I never really understand why we play this Top Trumps Atrocities game. To put it extremely mildly, it misses the point when we discuss and consider these things.
    The top trumps thing is not edifying, but a black British person might legitimately feel that the Holocaust is remembered extensively in the UK (rightly even if it means some twats claiming we fought Hitler to save the Jews) while the British part in the trans Atlantic slave trade is played down.
  • spudgfshspudgfsh Posts: 1,490
    Ghedebrav said:

    spudgfsh said:

    Leon said:

    spudgfsh said:

    kamski said:

    Leon said:

    I think we need some gentlemen’s wagers - and gentlewomen’s - on how long Starmer will take to suspend/expel Diane Abbott

    I bet 5 cyberbaht she’ll be out by teatime

    I used to have some sympathy for her, even though she obviously wasn't the sharpest tool in the shed and I don't agree with her politics, because she seemed to get an extra level of abuse because she is a black woman. But this is really unforgivable - she certainly should be finished now.
    Sorry, I've just woken up, what has she done now?
    Sent THIS letter to the Observer


    while shocking it's not surprising. I can understand why she's said it that way she's subject to large volumes of abuse (most of it sexist and racist) and being on the receiving end of that can cloud your judgement.

    it doesn't make it right and she should be suspended from the party because of it.
    Pretty much agree. It’s a really daft letter and while I’ve always felt sympathetic to her, I think this has to mean a suspension.

    I never really understand why we play this Top Trumps Atrocities game. To put it extremely mildly, it misses the point when we discuss and consider these things.
    that's the thing. as a straight, white, middle class, middle aged male I don't feel that I can even join the debate without offending someone.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,661
    OldKingCole said:

    geoffw said:

    AramintaMoonbeamQC said:

    kamski said:

    AramintaMoonbeamQC said:

    That was quick

    https://twitter.com/HackneyAbbott/status/1650072333527252994

    Sent the first draft by mistake doesn't cut it in this case. What would the final draft have looked like? Even if you take out the reference to redheads it's still awful.
    'This is what I actually thought, but now realise it makes me look bad'.

    Isn't she the MP for Stamford Hill?
    "the largest concentration of Hasidic Jews in Europe"

    Apart from Canvey Island?
    they seem to be Haredi Jews

  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,353
    WillG said:

    MoonRabbit said:

    WillG said:

    MoonRabbit said:

    WillG said:

    kle4 said:

    WillG said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Slightly unexpected.

    "Matthew Parris
    I’m no fan, but Raab has been hard done by

    Labelling the justice secretary a bully is no substitute for finding evidence that any of his actions merited his departure" (£)

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/5d10c666-e077-11ed-a443-397013625a7c

    When the report itself said that Raab had not targeted anyone, it is ludicrous that he can be guilty of "bullying".

    The Civil Service has become an incredibly political beast. They are furious that the general public overruled their Europhile project that would permanently cement rule by bureaucracy. And so they have stitched up an extreme conclusion based on the weakest of evidence.

    If that's what it was, a stitch up, Rishi would have insisted Raab stay on. Why wouldn't he? There's clearly defenders to be found in media and the party, the findings are not as extreme as many cases so easier to sell to the public, and Raab was an early backer whom he has reason to show some gratitude towards.

    I do not buy that Raab's previous comments that he would resign on the basis of a finding against him tied either his or Rishi's hands - ultimately a stitch up could be resisted.
    He couldn't because that's what a stitch-up is. The Civil Service manipulated things to make it politically impossible for him to do so. They hated Raab for backing Brexit and manouvered things to force him to resign. It was an entirely political manouver as the civil service barons have ideas above their station.
    Nope. Yours is completely the wrong take on what happened here. It was Rishi Sunak’s decision to throw Raab under the bus, being the best option for Rishi Sunak, compared to Rishi letting Raab the now controversial bully stay on, and the heat thus transferred to Rishi Sunak and his decision making.

    Or so Rishi thought at the time. as often in politics, the next chapters can go in unexpected directions.


    Again, generality drivel to attempt to create a narrative without any specific facts behind it. Raab said he would resign if a situation happened, so he did resign when it happened. Nothing to do with Sunak. It's called principle.
    Ha. 😆 If Raab hadn’t said that, Rishi would still have thrown Raab under the bus to spare himself. The fact Raab said it merely made it so easy for Sunak to do the Pontius Pilate hand washing thing.

    The specific facts you need are exactly what you get in these situations, coming up to tight elections, is government and Downing Street trying to distance itself from anything controversial. Where proper government is less about giving voters what they want, and in fact much closer to forcing voters to swallow what they need, this is becoming a period of non government, preoccupied on focus groups and polls, avoiding anything controversial, trying to shape front pages and narratives in the best possible way, until the next election is out of the way.

    Sunak’s abandonment of Raab has to be seen as being in this period, in this context.
    Again, another narrative bullshit comment free from any specific facts. That your example of "specific facts" isn't a specific fact just shows you don't have basic understanding of the English language.

    Presumably, this sort of weak, fact-free thinking is the exact sort of dross is what Raab had no patience for in the Civil Service.
    Well. On topic now. We now have all the newspaper reports to fill in facts you were missing (though easily guessed anyway). Bottom line from a cold sober after the event assessment, Sunak was absolutely right to throw Raab under the bus and not try to tough it out. The Johnson way of standing by Raab and toughing it out, a la Patterson, would have taken 4 points off the opinion polls in a week.

    Have you actually read the article I posted? I’m not inventing anything, this is what is going on. At the same time as Downing Street spin machine try to portray all politics and anything adversarial being purely between Tory and Labour - we are effectively in 18 month election campaign - there’s clearly a growing movement in the Conservatives to use a period as opposition party to be rid of Hunt and Sunak and return to “Conservative Policies”. And they are right of course. Avoiding a 1992 scenario next year is probably 210 to 260 seats and the opportunity to untangle such things as why Conservatives are no longer party of aspiration but now party for defending privilege - getting the 1992 scenario next year is likely to cause a wipe out to 160 seats in 2029, last time that happened it took 18years till another majority - that takes us to nearly 2050.

    Why a certain wipe out to the core 160 or less seats in 2029? Because if the conservatives handed over government next year, they will hand the country over in worse mess than they inherited in 2010. 1950s levels of tax, debt, painful interest payments on the debt, crumbling services, and IMeff forecasting another 4 years of little growth for the world - let alone Brexit Britain - simply add five more years of painful decisions and no money to sort it on Tories current record since 2010, and it’s certain wipe out. Labour can’t dodge the bullet of one of the best elections to lose - they have been out so long they have to go for it. The Tories have the luxury to embrace opposition as opportunity for much needed reset. Go back asap to being known as the party of aspiration, low tax and home ownership for working people, law and order and best for the economy, that made the Conservatives great in the first place.

    I was young, but remember it was same with Labour in 2009 and 2010 - so this isn’t a post bashing the Tories, just calling how it is - as the months ticked down many were looking forward to the chance to reset with spell in opposition - cabinet ministers and those outside seeing themselves as leader of that reset. Over the next 12 months the Conservative Party will be much the same, a great number actually hoping to avoid the 1992 Klingon Scenario.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,509
    HYUFD said:

    another_richard said:

    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    another_richard said:

    Benpointer said:

    Fishing said:

    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    Today is St George's Day.

    Why the United States keeps getting richer – with Britain lagging ever further behind

    Britons will soon be “richer than Americans” read a BBC headline in January 2008.

    Forecasters were predicting that for the first time in more than a century, GDP per head in the UK would surpass that of the US.
    ...[snip]...
    Yet by 2021, GDP per head across the pond had increased by 15pc, while Britons were only 3pc better off than in 2008.
    ...[snip]...
    While the US economy was 5pc larger in the final three months of last year than before Covid, the UK remained 0.6pc poorer.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/04/23/us-richer-than-uk-finance-inflation-taxes/ (£££)

    The Telegraph does not quite say Britain's growth under Labour was snuffed out by Conservative governments but it does point to high tax rates under the blue team, contrasted with low tax rates and state intervention in America.

    Yes, Democrat America is following Conservative economic policies, while Conservative Britain (and much of Europe) is following Labour ones. With predictable results.
    So to summarise:

    While Labour were in power, Britain's GDP per capita was catching up with the US's.
    After 13 years of Tory rule we've slipped back by 12%.
    And that's Labour's fault.

    Right.

    Also, the sky at night is white and the shining moon is black.
    You think that the pre 2008 UK housing and finance bubble was sustainable and could be extrapolated forever ?

    Do I need to point out what happened to the UK economy a few weeks later ?
    And you think the Global Financial Crisis "which started in America" had no effect in America?
    Which part of America is Northern Rock in ?

    While all the world was affected to varying degrees the UK had focussed its economy into a housing bubble and finance far more than most.

    For example the USA has developed a huge shale gas industry allowing cheaper energy to boost its economy generally whereas in the UK shale gas has never got started.

    I doubt in the USA you will find many who advocate basing their economy on the New York financial sector whereas in the UK basing the economy the London financial sector is still advocated by various well connected people.
    The US financial centre is still New York City by a clear margin and the tech centre around Seattle and San Francisco. Middle America is largely ignored, hence Trump won in 2016 and Biden had to push a blue-collar, pro manufacturing message to win back the White House
    Most if which measures the Republicans voted against.
    While
    CarlottaVance said:

    Patten I can understand, but Ashton? What notable contribution have I missed?

    https://www.royal.uk/news-and-activity/2023-04-23/new-appointments-to-the-order-of-the-garter

    Appointment to a very large number of things .
    This is just another one.
  • PhilPhil Posts: 2,239
    Leon said:

    Sean_F said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    Ooouf!

    .@HackneyAbbott is right on one point: my relatives were never forced to sit at the back of the bus.

    There aren’t any seats on cattle trucks.

    Otherwise, minimising anti-Jewish racism as mere ‘prejudice’ is shameful from someone who takes the Labour whip.

    https://twitter.com/DXW_KC/status/1650057487263887365?s=20

    Ouch!

    I would say there is no large group of people who have suffered worse discrimination than the Jews, over the past two thousand years, beginning with Hadrian’s attempt at genocide.
    Indeed, one explanation for the average high IQ of Ashkenazi Jews - about 115, compared to the average 100 of humanity in general - is that they suffered so much persecution and murder over the centuries only the very brightest survived. Also this prejudice against them made Jews prize education and scholarship more than most people - as they were excluded from other areas of life - another eugenic pressure on them

    The over representation of Jews in Nobel prize winners is quite extraordinary, for instance
    There was a time when Jews absolutely dominated basketball in the USA.

    It had nothing to do with genetics & everything to do with the culture of that time & place.

    Culture & the context in which that culture gets to express itself matters enormously.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,661
    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    another_richard said:

    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    another_richard said:

    Benpointer said:

    Fishing said:

    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    Today is St George's Day.

    Why the United States keeps getting richer – with Britain lagging ever further behind

    Britons will soon be “richer than Americans” read a BBC headline in January 2008.

    Forecasters were predicting that for the first time in more than a century, GDP per head in the UK would surpass that of the US.
    ...[snip]...
    Yet by 2021, GDP per head across the pond had increased by 15pc, while Britons were only 3pc better off than in 2008.
    ...[snip]...
    While the US economy was 5pc larger in the final three months of last year than before Covid, the UK remained 0.6pc poorer.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/04/23/us-richer-than-uk-finance-inflation-taxes/ (£££)

    The Telegraph does not quite say Britain's growth under Labour was snuffed out by Conservative governments but it does point to high tax rates under the blue team, contrasted with low tax rates and state intervention in America.

    Yes, Democrat America is following Conservative economic policies, while Conservative Britain (and much of Europe) is following Labour ones. With predictable results.
    So to summarise:

    While Labour were in power, Britain's GDP per capita was catching up with the US's.
    After 13 years of Tory rule we've slipped back by 12%.
    And that's Labour's fault.

    Right.

    Also, the sky at night is white and the shining moon is black.
    You think that the pre 2008 UK housing and finance bubble was sustainable and could be extrapolated forever ?

    Do I need to point out what happened to the UK economy a few weeks later ?
    And you think the Global Financial Crisis "which started in America" had no effect in America?
    Which part of America is Northern Rock in ?

    While all the world was affected to varying degrees the UK had focussed its economy into a housing bubble and finance far more than most.

    For example the USA has developed a huge shale gas industry allowing cheaper energy to boost its economy generally whereas in the UK shale gas has never got started.

    I doubt in the USA you will find many who advocate basing their economy on the New York financial sector whereas in the UK basing the economy the London financial sector is still advocated by various well connected people.
    The US financial centre is still New York City by a clear margin and the tech centre around Seattle and San Francisco. Middle America is largely ignored, hence Trump won in 2016 and Biden had to push a blue-collar, pro manufacturing message to win back the White House
    Most if which measures the Republicans voted against.
    While
    CarlottaVance said:

    Patten I can understand, but Ashton? What notable contribution have I missed?

    https://www.royal.uk/news-and-activity/2023-04-23/new-appointments-to-the-order-of-the-garter

    Appointment to a very large number of things .
    This is just another one.
    Lady Widmerpool

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,509
    edited April 2023
    .
    Leon said:

    AramintaMoonbeamQC said:

    That was quick

    https://twitter.com/HackneyAbbott/status/1650072333527252994

    Good grief

    “I accidentally composed wrote and posted a letter to a newspaper which I completely did not mean”
    Shame Boris didn't do that with his Brexit letter. The retraction would have been considerably more believable.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,205
    Ghedebrav said:

    spudgfsh said:

    Leon said:

    spudgfsh said:

    kamski said:

    Leon said:

    I think we need some gentlemen’s wagers - and gentlewomen’s - on how long Starmer will take to suspend/expel Diane Abbott

    I bet 5 cyberbaht she’ll be out by teatime

    I used to have some sympathy for her, even though she obviously wasn't the sharpest tool in the shed and I don't agree with her politics, because she seemed to get an extra level of abuse because she is a black woman. But this is really unforgivable - she certainly should be finished now.
    Sorry, I've just woken up, what has she done now?
    Sent THIS letter to the Observer


    while shocking it's not surprising. I can understand why she's said it that way she's subject to large volumes of abuse (most of it sexist and racist) and being on the receiving end of that can cloud your judgement.

    it doesn't make it right and she should be suspended from the party because of it.
    Pretty much agree. It’s a really daft letter and while I’ve always felt sympathetic to her, I think this has to mean a suspension.

    I never really understand why we play this Top Trumps Atrocities game. To put it extremely mildly, it misses the point when we discuss and consider these things.
    Saying that the abuse *my* group gets is more important than the abuse *your* group gets ignores one important fact: the abuse is often exactly the same, and rooted in similar prejudices.

    Many of the people who abuse Abbott (or any other black person), will also abuse, or be tempted to abuse, Jews, Asians, the disabled etc. Minority groups should stand up not only for their group, but also other minority groups.

    Sadly, all too often there is abuse *between* the groups as well.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,509
    Ghedebrav said:

    spudgfsh said:

    Leon said:

    spudgfsh said:

    kamski said:

    Leon said:

    I think we need some gentlemen’s wagers - and gentlewomen’s - on how long Starmer will take to suspend/expel Diane Abbott

    I bet 5 cyberbaht she’ll be out by teatime

    I used to have some sympathy for her, even though she obviously wasn't the sharpest tool in the shed and I don't agree with her politics, because she seemed to get an extra level of abuse because she is a black woman. But this is really unforgivable - she certainly should be finished now.
    Sorry, I've just woken up, what has she done now?
    Sent THIS letter to the Observer


    while shocking it's not surprising. I can understand why she's said it that way she's subject to large volumes of abuse (most of it sexist and racist) and being on the receiving end of that can cloud your judgement.

    it doesn't make it right and she should be suspended from the party because of it.
    Pretty much agree. It’s a really daft letter and while I’ve always felt sympathetic to her, I think this has to mean a suspension.

    I never really understand why we play this Top Trumps Atrocities game. To put it extremely mildly, it misses the point when we discuss and consider these things.
    It is, though, a great illustration of why the concept of 'race' is such a malign one.
    Racism exists; race really doesn't.
  • PhilPhil Posts: 2,239
    another_richard said:

    Benpointer said:

    Fishing said:

    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    Today is St George's Day.

    Why the United States keeps getting richer – with Britain lagging ever further behind

    Britons will soon be “richer than Americans” read a BBC headline in January 2008.

    Forecasters were predicting that for the first time in more than a century, GDP per head in the UK would surpass that of the US.
    ...[snip]...
    Yet by 2021, GDP per head across the pond had increased by 15pc, while Britons were only 3pc better off than in 2008.
    ...[snip]...
    While the US economy was 5pc larger in the final three months of last year than before Covid, the UK remained 0.6pc poorer.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/04/23/us-richer-than-uk-finance-inflation-taxes/ (£££)

    The Telegraph does not quite say Britain's growth under Labour was snuffed out by Conservative governments but it does point to high tax rates under the blue team, contrasted with low tax rates and state intervention in America.

    Yes, Democrat America is following Conservative economic policies, while Conservative Britain (and much of Europe) is following Labour ones. With predictable results.
    So to summarise:

    While Labour were in power, Britain's GDP per capita was catching up with the US's.
    After 13 years of Tory rule we've slipped back by 12%.
    And that's Labour's fault.

    Right.

    Also, the sky at night is white and the shining moon is black.
    You think that the pre 2008 UK housing and finance bubble was sustainable and could be extrapolated forever ?

    Do I need to point out what happened to the UK economy a few weeks later ?
    The effect on the US economy was just as strong, yet they have bounced back whereas we have not.

    Why is that? What is going on that drives this difference in outcomes?

    Think of how different the choices open to this government would be if we’d had US levels of GDP growth for the last 15 years.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,668
    Phil said:

    Leon said:

    Sean_F said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    Ooouf!

    .@HackneyAbbott is right on one point: my relatives were never forced to sit at the back of the bus.

    There aren’t any seats on cattle trucks.

    Otherwise, minimising anti-Jewish racism as mere ‘prejudice’ is shameful from someone who takes the Labour whip.

    https://twitter.com/DXW_KC/status/1650057487263887365?s=20

    Ouch!

    I would say there is no large group of people who have suffered worse discrimination than the Jews, over the past two thousand years, beginning with Hadrian’s attempt at genocide.
    Indeed, one explanation for the average high IQ of Ashkenazi Jews - about 115, compared to the average 100 of humanity in general - is that they suffered so much persecution and murder over the centuries only the very brightest survived. Also this prejudice against them made Jews prize education and scholarship more than most people - as they were excluded from other areas of life - another eugenic pressure on them

    The over representation of Jews in Nobel prize winners is quite extraordinary, for instance
    There was a time when Jews absolutely dominated basketball in the USA.

    It had nothing to do with genetics & everything to do with the culture of that time & place.

    Culture & the context in which that culture gets to express itself matters enormously.
    Sure. But it’s daft to deny that Jewish people are generally smarter than average. Every single metric shows this. If you don’t like IQ try any other gauge

    The Nobel one is amazing. Jews are 0.2% of humanity yet they have won 22% of Nobel prizes


    https://jewishjournal.com/commentary/opinion/347466/and-the-winner-of-the-nobel-prize-is-jewish/
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,736
    Nigelb said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    spudgfsh said:

    Leon said:

    spudgfsh said:

    kamski said:

    Leon said:

    I think we need some gentlemen’s wagers - and gentlewomen’s - on how long Starmer will take to suspend/expel Diane Abbott

    I bet 5 cyberbaht she’ll be out by teatime

    I used to have some sympathy for her, even though she obviously wasn't the sharpest tool in the shed and I don't agree with her politics, because she seemed to get an extra level of abuse because she is a black woman. But this is really unforgivable - she certainly should be finished now.
    Sorry, I've just woken up, what has she done now?
    Sent THIS letter to the Observer


    while shocking it's not surprising. I can understand why she's said it that way she's subject to large volumes of abuse (most of it sexist and racist) and being on the receiving end of that can cloud your judgement.

    it doesn't make it right and she should be suspended from the party because of it.
    Pretty much agree. It’s a really daft letter and while I’ve always felt sympathetic to her, I think this has to mean a suspension.

    I never really understand why we play this Top Trumps Atrocities game. To put it extremely mildly, it misses the point when we discuss and consider these things.
    It is, though, a great illustration of why the concept of 'race' is such a malign one.
    Racism exists; race really doesn't.
    What she wrote is actually very misleading as far as the law is concerned, because the Equality Act explicitly includes nationality and national or ethnic origins in its definition of race. She shouldn't be sowing confusion about the legal definition.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,662
    malcolmg said:

    AramintaMoonbeamQC said:

    That was quick

    https://twitter.com/HackneyAbbott/status/1650072333527252994

    The dog ate the final version
    She is completely bonkers.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,578
    OldKingCole said:

    geoffw said:

    AramintaMoonbeamQC said:

    kamski said:

    AramintaMoonbeamQC said:

    That was quick

    https://twitter.com/HackneyAbbott/status/1650072333527252994

    Sent the first draft by mistake doesn't cut it in this case. What would the final draft have looked like? Even if you take out the reference to redheads it's still awful.
    'This is what I actually thought, but now realise it makes me look bad'.

    Isn't she the MP for Stamford Hill?
    "the largest concentration of Hasidic Jews in Europe"

    Apart from Canvey Island?
    "Oi! Oi!"
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,509
    edited April 2023
    Phil said:

    another_richard said:

    Benpointer said:

    Fishing said:

    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    Today is St George's Day.

    Why the United States keeps getting richer – with Britain lagging ever further behind

    Britons will soon be “richer than Americans” read a BBC headline in January 2008.

    Forecasters were predicting that for the first time in more than a century, GDP per head in the UK would surpass that of the US.
    ...[snip]...
    Yet by 2021, GDP per head across the pond had increased by 15pc, while Britons were only 3pc better off than in 2008.
    ...[snip]...
    While the US economy was 5pc larger in the final three months of last year than before Covid, the UK remained 0.6pc poorer.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/04/23/us-richer-than-uk-finance-inflation-taxes/ (£££)

    The Telegraph does not quite say Britain's growth under Labour was snuffed out by Conservative governments but it does point to high tax rates under the blue team, contrasted with low tax rates and state intervention in America.

    Yes, Democrat America is following Conservative economic policies, while Conservative Britain (and much of Europe) is following Labour ones. With predictable results.
    So to summarise:

    While Labour were in power, Britain's GDP per capita was catching up with the US's.
    After 13 years of Tory rule we've slipped back by 12%.
    And that's Labour's fault.

    Right.

    Also, the sky at night is white and the shining moon is black.
    You think that the pre 2008 UK housing and finance bubble was sustainable and could be extrapolated forever ?

    Do I need to point out what happened to the UK economy a few weeks later ?
    The effect on the US economy was just as strong, yet they have bounced back whereas we have not.

    Why is that? What is going on that drives this difference in outcomes?

    Think of how different the choices open to this government would be if we’d had US levels of GDP growth for the last 15 years.
    US growth hasn't been that great, either.
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7195104//m

    Some differences are - a greater ability to borrow; much lower energy costs (we don't have, and couldn't have significant fracking); a much larger technology sector; the ability (and recent determination) to build back onshore manufacturing.

    Their productivity growth has been anaemic, though slightly better than ours. Their demographics are better than much of Europe.
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860
    kamski said:

    AramintaMoonbeamQC said:

    That was quick

    https://twitter.com/HackneyAbbott/status/1650072333527252994

    Sent the first draft by mistake doesn't cut it in this case. What would the final draft have looked like? Even if you take out the reference to redheads it's still awful.
    “I took a photo of my knob but hit send by mistake” is basically the argument here.
    Phil said:

    Leon said:

    Sean_F said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    Ooouf!

    .@HackneyAbbott is right on one point: my relatives were never forced to sit at the back of the bus.

    There aren’t any seats on cattle trucks.

    Otherwise, minimising anti-Jewish racism as mere ‘prejudice’ is shameful from someone who takes the Labour whip.

    https://twitter.com/DXW_KC/status/1650057487263887365?s=20

    Ouch!

    I would say there is no large group of people who have suffered worse discrimination than the Jews, over the past two thousand years, beginning with Hadrian’s attempt at genocide.
    Indeed, one explanation for the average high IQ of Ashkenazi Jews - about 115, compared to the average 100 of humanity in general - is that they suffered so much persecution and murder over the centuries only the very brightest survived. Also this prejudice against them made Jews prize education and scholarship more than most people - as they were excluded from other areas of life - another eugenic pressure on them

    The over representation of Jews in Nobel prize winners is quite extraordinary, for instance
    There was a time when Jews absolutely dominated basketball in the USA.

    It had nothing to do with genetics & everything to do with the culture of that time & place.

    Culture & the context in which that culture gets to express itself matters enormously.
    Indeed. The fact that Jewish people (in Europe especially) were barred from so many professions barring peddling, money lending and medicine (as well as media, as that began to emerge), plus add in a culture that is literate, usually multilingual and often has strong international connections (all pretty unusual in late medieval and early modern Europe - and beyond) and it’s that cultural context rather than the genetics really.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,578
    Ghedebrav said:

    kamski said:

    AramintaMoonbeamQC said:

    That was quick

    https://twitter.com/HackneyAbbott/status/1650072333527252994

    Sent the first draft by mistake doesn't cut it in this case. What would the final draft have looked like? Even if you take out the reference to redheads it's still awful.
    “I took a photo of my knob but hit send by mistake” is basically the argument here.
    WICKED CHILD!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,830
    malcolmg said:

    AramintaMoonbeamQC said:

    That was quick

    https://twitter.com/HackneyAbbott/status/1650072333527252994

    The dog ate the final version
    I get apologising, but how does one disassociate from your own remarks
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,136
    edited April 2023
    Hackney North to have a new MP at the next election, perhaps.
  • PhilPhil Posts: 2,239
    Leon said:

    Phil said:

    Leon said:

    Sean_F said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    Ooouf!

    .@HackneyAbbott is right on one point: my relatives were never forced to sit at the back of the bus.

    There aren’t any seats on cattle trucks.

    Otherwise, minimising anti-Jewish racism as mere ‘prejudice’ is shameful from someone who takes the Labour whip.

    https://twitter.com/DXW_KC/status/1650057487263887365?s=20

    Ouch!

    I would say there is no large group of people who have suffered worse discrimination than the Jews, over the past two thousand years, beginning with Hadrian’s attempt at genocide.
    Indeed, one explanation for the average high IQ of Ashkenazi Jews - about 115, compared to the average 100 of humanity in general - is that they suffered so much persecution and murder over the centuries only the very brightest survived. Also this prejudice against them made Jews prize education and scholarship more than most people - as they were excluded from other areas of life - another eugenic pressure on them

    The over representation of Jews in Nobel prize winners is quite extraordinary, for instance
    There was a time when Jews absolutely dominated basketball in the USA.

    It had nothing to do with genetics & everything to do with the culture of that time & place.

    Culture & the context in which that culture gets to express itself matters enormously.
    Sure. But it’s daft to deny that Jewish people are generally smarter than average. Every single metric shows this. If you don’t like IQ try any other gauge

    The Nobel one is amazing. Jews are 0.2% of humanity yet they have won 22% of Nobel prizes


    https://jewishjournal.com/commentary/opinion/347466/and-the-winner-of-the-nobel-prize-is-jewish/
    Were Jews genetically better at basketball?

    Obviously not.

    Take a subpopulation that already highly values education, put them through a ruthless filter that selects for the most intelligent & then give those people access to research labs at a time when science is advancing at a rapid pace.

    Surprise! They get Nobel prizes at a disproportate rate. Is that sub-group actually more intelligent on average than the rest of the human population? Or did we just post-hoc select the most intelligent out of that subgroup & move them from eastern / central Europe to the west at a time when science funding was expanding massively?

    You have to disprove the latter if you want to prove the former.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,154
    Nigelb said:

    .

    Leon said:

    AramintaMoonbeamQC said:

    That was quick

    https://twitter.com/HackneyAbbott/status/1650072333527252994

    Good grief

    “I accidentally composed wrote and posted a letter to a newspaper which I completely did not mean”
    Shame Boris didn't do that with his Brexit letter. The retraction would have been considerably more believable.
    It reminded me of Jeremy Clarkson's attempted retraction over the Meghan Markle article.

    Although at least that had a possible if incredibly unconvincing explanation as to how it happened.

    This one however smells of more bull shit than a barn full of steers being fattened just after silage has been issued.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,668

    I am writing regarding my book that was recently published in Munich

    I wish to wholly and unreservedly withdraw my opinions expressed throughout the book and in every single chapter of the book which took me three years to write

    The errors arose from a malfunctioning of my typewriter which changed the title of “My Favourite Golf Courses” to “Mein Kampf” and then accidentally inserted 10,298 references to the Jews as an inferior race who must be killed instead of my intended discussion of putting greens

    Once again, I would like to unreservedly apologise to anyone distressed by this unfortunate drafting error which occurred while I was in prison for stirring up Jew-hatred

    Yours, A Hitler (retired)
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,183
    edited April 2023
    Admissions Tutor 1: Should we offer a place to this innumerate nitwit? They say she's destined to be a community leader and we have a public duty to educate her.

    AT2: But some poor gel from Roedean will have to go to Bristol.

    AT3: Or Exeter. They say Exeter's quite good.

    AT2: Yes, one of our gels teaches there.

    AT3: Or maybe Sussex. The Jays went there.

    AT2: She wouldn't want to go to Sussex after Roedean.

    AT3: Agreed. It will have to be Bristol or Exeter.

    AT1: So that's 'Yes' to Miss Abbott then?

  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,668
    Phil said:

    Leon said:

    Phil said:

    Leon said:

    Sean_F said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    Ooouf!

    .@HackneyAbbott is right on one point: my relatives were never forced to sit at the back of the bus.

    There aren’t any seats on cattle trucks.

    Otherwise, minimising anti-Jewish racism as mere ‘prejudice’ is shameful from someone who takes the Labour whip.

    https://twitter.com/DXW_KC/status/1650057487263887365?s=20

    Ouch!

    I would say there is no large group of people who have suffered worse discrimination than the Jews, over the past two thousand years, beginning with Hadrian’s attempt at genocide.
    Indeed, one explanation for the average high IQ of Ashkenazi Jews - about 115, compared to the average 100 of humanity in general - is that they suffered so much persecution and murder over the centuries only the very brightest survived. Also this prejudice against them made Jews prize education and scholarship more than most people - as they were excluded from other areas of life - another eugenic pressure on them

    The over representation of Jews in Nobel prize winners is quite extraordinary, for instance
    There was a time when Jews absolutely dominated basketball in the USA.

    It had nothing to do with genetics & everything to do with the culture of that time & place.

    Culture & the context in which that culture gets to express itself matters enormously.
    Sure. But it’s daft to deny that Jewish people are generally smarter than average. Every single metric shows this. If you don’t like IQ try any other gauge

    The Nobel one is amazing. Jews are 0.2% of humanity yet they have won 22% of Nobel prizes


    https://jewishjournal.com/commentary/opinion/347466/and-the-winner-of-the-nobel-prize-is-jewish/
    Were Jews genetically better at basketball?

    Obviously not.

    Take a subpopulation that already highly values education, put them through a ruthless filter that selects for the most intelligent & then give those people access to research labs at a time when science is advancing at a rapid pace.

    Surprise! They get Nobel prizes at a disproportate rate. Is that sub-group actually more intelligent on average than the rest of the human population? Or did we just post-hoc select the most intelligent out of that subgroup & move them from eastern / central Europe to the west at a time when science funding was expanding massively?

    You have to disprove the latter if you want to prove the former.
    All I know is that if you REALLY need a lawyer, choose a Jew
This discussion has been closed.