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Views of Brexit – the age and gender splits – politicalbetting.com

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  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,990

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    kle4 said:

    Combing all the EU into one is not always reasonable, but if this is accurate I am still surprised everyone else added together goes past the USA.

    The pervasive DC narrative of the war around European free-loading is out of date. Europe is now paying more for the war than the United States. And these figures exclude the steep "energy tax" that Putin has imposed on the continent: which the Americans are not paying.


    https://twitter.com/b_judah/status/1601207409808379905?cxt=HHwWgsDQlfvp0LgsAAAA

    I wonder if it includes support for Ukrainian refugees which would be pretty massive in the EU and I guess minimal in the US?
    Likely, because everyone else has given next to nothing compared to the US in military aid.

    https://www.statista.com/chart/27278/military-aid-to-ukraine-by-country/
    But the wider impact of the energy crisis has been overwhelmingly on the EU/UK, whilst the US has gone around signing lucrative LNG deals.
    They were warned about reliance on Russian gas by the U.S., but they just laughed.
    We should be equally wary (for different reasons) about overreliance on US LNG.
    Agreed, too many eggs etc.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,429

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    kle4 said:

    Combing all the EU into one is not always reasonable, but if this is accurate I am still surprised everyone else added together goes past the USA.

    The pervasive DC narrative of the war around European free-loading is out of date. Europe is now paying more for the war than the United States. And these figures exclude the steep "energy tax" that Putin has imposed on the continent: which the Americans are not paying.


    https://twitter.com/b_judah/status/1601207409808379905?cxt=HHwWgsDQlfvp0LgsAAAA

    I wonder if it includes support for Ukrainian refugees which would be pretty massive in the EU and I guess minimal in the US?
    Likely, because everyone else has given next to nothing compared to the US in military aid.

    https://www.statista.com/chart/27278/military-aid-to-ukraine-by-country/
    But the wider impact of the energy crisis has been overwhelmingly on the EU/UK, whilst the US has gone around signing lucrative LNG deals.
    They were warned about reliance on Russian gas by the U.S., but they just laughed.
    We should be equally wary (for different reasons) about overreliance on US LNG.
    There are several potential risks associated with the UK becoming over-reliant upon liquid natural gas (LNG) from the United States. Some of these risks might include:
    • Dependence on a single source of energy, which could make the UK vulnerable to disruptions or changes in the supply of LNG from the United States.
    • Potential for price volatility, as the UK would be subject to the market conditions and pricing decisions of LNG producers in the United States.
    • Reduced bargaining power and leverage in negotiations with the United States and other LNG producers, as the UK would be more reliant on their supplies.
    • Risk of undermining domestic energy production and the development of alternative energy sources, as the UK may be less incentivized to invest in its own energy infrastructure.
    These are just a few examples of the potential risks of the UK becoming over-reliant on LNG from the United States. It's important for the UK to carefully consider and manage these risks in order to ensure a secure and stable energy supply.


  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,163
    edited December 2022

    LOL


    Why do they define themselves by being anti English? If they concentrated more on their own performance they might not have failed to qualify like Ireland and Scotland or been knocked out in the first round like Wales
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,163

    IanB2 said:

    Stocky said:

    It's what happens when decisions are based on populism. Views are easily expressed but have no depth.

    Decisions based on populism can have a number of negative consequences. One problem with populism is that it often involves appealing to the emotions and prejudices of the public, rather than relying on facts and evidence to make decisions. This can result in policies and decisions that are not well thought out and may not be in the best interests of the public. Additionally, populist leaders may be more interested in gaining and maintaining power than in governing effectively, which can lead to corruption and abuses of power. Finally, populism often involves pitting one group of people against another, which can create divisions and conflicts within a society.
    Text book description of late Toryism, 2016 to date.
    'Populist' movements by definition spring up where Governments make decisions against the views or even the interests of the general populace.

    'Popular' Government - by the people, for the people, works extremely well; it's what they have in Switzerland, which has done a lot better economically and socially than its EU neighbours.
    Switzerland has one of the wealthiest and most educated populations in the world, which reduces the risk of extremist populism
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,429
    HYUFD said:

    LOL


    Why do they define themselves by being anti English? If they concentrated more on their own performance they might not have to failed to qualify like Ireland and Scotland or been knocked out in the first round like Wales
    It is possible that there may be a long history of cultural and political differences between these countries and England that could contribute to this sentiment. Additionally, sports rivalries are often a source of pride and passion for fans, and it's common for fans of one team to take pleasure in the failure or defeat of their rivals. In the case of football, the national teams of Scotland, Wales, and Ireland often compete against the England national team, so it's possible that the desire to see England fail on the pitch could contribute to a feeling of pleasure among fans of the other teams. However, it's important to remember that not all fans of these teams necessarily feel this way, and that these are just possible explanations for why some fans may take pleasure in being anti-English.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,429
    edited December 2022
    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    Stocky said:

    It's what happens when decisions are based on populism. Views are easily expressed but have no depth.

    Decisions based on populism can have a number of negative consequences. One problem with populism is that it often involves appealing to the emotions and prejudices of the public, rather than relying on facts and evidence to make decisions. This can result in policies and decisions that are not well thought out and may not be in the best interests of the public. Additionally, populist leaders may be more interested in gaining and maintaining power than in governing effectively, which can lead to corruption and abuses of power. Finally, populism often involves pitting one group of people against another, which can create divisions and conflicts within a society.
    Text book description of late Toryism, 2016 to date.
    'Populist' movements by definition spring up where Governments make decisions against the views or even the interests of the general populace.

    'Popular' Government - by the people, for the people, works extremely well; it's what they have in Switzerland, which has done a lot better economically and socially than its EU neighbours.
    Switzerland has one of the wealthiest and most educated populations in the world, which reduces the risk of extremist populism
    • Wealth and education are not the only factors that can influence the rise of extremist populism. Other factors, such as political instability, social and economic inequality, and the presence of extremist political parties or movements, can also play a role.
    • Wealth and education do not necessarily prevent people from supporting extremist populist movements. In some cases, individuals who are well-educated and wealthy may be more likely to support extremist populist movements if they feel that their interests are threatened by the policies of the current government or by the actions of marginalized groups.
    • Wealth and education are not always distributed evenly within a country. Even in countries like Switzerland, which has high levels of wealth and education overall, there may be pockets of poverty and low educational attainment that could be fertile ground for the growth of extremist populist movements.
    • The relationship between wealth, education, and extremist populism is complex and can vary from one country to another. For example, some countries with high levels of wealth and education may still have a high risk of extremist populism, while other countries with lower levels of wealth and education may have a lower risk.

      Therefore, it's not always accurate to make broad generalizations about the relationship between these factors.


  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,429
    Anyhow, the football beckons…
  • Options
    kamskikamski Posts: 4,316
    IanB2 said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    kle4 said:

    Combing all the EU into one is not always reasonable, but if this is accurate I am still surprised everyone else added together goes past the USA.

    The pervasive DC narrative of the war around European free-loading is out of date. Europe is now paying more for the war than the United States. And these figures exclude the steep "energy tax" that Putin has imposed on the continent: which the Americans are not paying.


    https://twitter.com/b_judah/status/1601207409808379905?cxt=HHwWgsDQlfvp0LgsAAAA

    I wonder if it includes support for Ukrainian refugees which would be pretty massive in the EU and I guess minimal in the US?
    Likely, because everyone else has given next to nothing compared to the US in military aid.

    https://www.statista.com/chart/27278/military-aid-to-ukraine-by-country/
    But the wider impact of the energy crisis has been overwhelmingly on the EU/UK, whilst the US has gone around signing lucrative LNG deals.
    They were warned about reliance on Russian gas by the U.S., but they just laughed.
    We should be equally wary (for different reasons) about overreliance on US LNG.
    There are several potential risks associated with the UK becoming over-reliant upon liquid natural gas (LNG) from the United States. Some of these risks might include:
    • Dependence on a single source of energy, which could make the UK vulnerable to disruptions or changes in the supply of LNG from the United States.
    • Potential for price volatility, as the UK would be subject to the market conditions and pricing decisions of LNG producers in the United States.
    • Reduced bargaining power and leverage in negotiations with the United States and other LNG producers, as the UK would be more reliant on their supplies.
    • Risk of undermining domestic energy production and the development of alternative energy sources, as the UK may be less incentivized to invest in its own energy infrastructure.
    These are just a few examples of the potential risks of the UK becoming over-reliant on LNG from the United States. It's important for the UK to carefully consider and manage these risks in order to ensure a secure and stable energy supply.


    There should be a button to flag posts as being too obviously written by chatGPT
  • Options
    ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 2,960

    Speaking of health, have we heard recently from Old King Cole? Is he still stuck in Ipswich, dealing with Nurse Ratchet?

    Best of luck & etc., esp. health, for our esteemed PBer, OKC.

    According to the vanilla profile page he was here (or just logged in - hard to say) on the 7th. And yes, from me also - hope you're doing ok @OldKingCole !
  • Options
    kamskikamski Posts: 4,316
    Can someone tell the Morocco fans that all this whistling is making all the neutrals (who would otherwise be supporting Morocco) hope that they get thrashed
  • Options

    I don’t there’s much affection for the EU per se.
    Just frustration with how shit Brexit has (predictably) turned out to be.

    Generating affection for the EU is a project that still remains. It may not actually be possible, as the EU is not designed to be especially lovable.

    Mind you, neither are insurance policies.

    Question is, what do we collectively do with the realisation that the EU isn't loveable, isn't trying to be loveable, probably isn't capable of being loveable, but is still a net positive?

    At the moment, a lot of Brits are still hoping for a relationship that gives us the benefits of Euro engagement without any of the drawbacks. That ain't gonna happen.

    On which topic, Sam Freedman has the results of some professional polling he has got done. I won't post the details, but the question, "what would you most fear about re-engaging with the EU" is worth thinking about.
  • Options
    WillGWillG Posts: 2,113
    HYUFD said:

    LOL


    Why do they define themselves by being anti English? If they concentrated more on their own performance they might not have failed to qualify like Ireland and Scotland or been knocked out in the first round like Wales
    It's just having a chip on their shoulder, as a result of having less prestigious football history than the USA.
  • Options
    GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,022
    kle4 said:

    RobD said:

    kle4 said:

    Combing all the EU into one is not always reasonable, but if this is accurate I am still surprised everyone else added together goes past the USA.

    The pervasive DC narrative of the war around European free-loading is out of date. Europe is now paying more for the war than the United States. And these figures exclude the steep "energy tax" that Putin has imposed on the continent: which the Americans are not paying.


    https://twitter.com/b_judah/status/1601207409808379905?cxt=HHwWgsDQlfvp0LgsAAAA

    I wonder if it includes support for Ukrainian refugees which would be pretty massive in the EU and I guess minimal in the US?
    Likely, because everyone else has given next to nothing compared to the US in military aid.

    https://www.statista.com/chart/27278/military-aid-to-ukraine-by-country/
    Latvia, Estonia and Lithuania have given a lot, given their size though.

    On that linked data it's France, Spain and Italy who are the real holdouts (also Hungary, but no surprise there).
    A link further on shows support for Ukraine as a proportion of GDP - the Baltic states (Latvia especially) have contributed very significantly, as has Poland.

    https://www.ifw-kiel.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukraine-support-tracker/
  • Options
    GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,022
    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    LOL


    Why do they define themselves by being anti English? If they concentrated more on their own performance they might not have to failed to qualify like Ireland and Scotland or been knocked out in the first round like Wales
    It is possible that there may be a long history of cultural and political differences between these countries and England that could contribute to this sentiment. Additionally, sports rivalries are often a source of pride and passion for fans, and it's common for fans of one team to take pleasure in the failure or defeat of their rivals. In the case of football, the national teams of Scotland, Wales, and Ireland often compete against the England national team, so it's possible that the desire to see England fail on the pitch could contribute to a feeling of pleasure among fans of the other teams. However, it's important to remember that not all fans of these teams necessarily feel this way, and that these are just possible explanations for why some fans may take pleasure in being anti-English.
    Also the idea that the players on the pitch would do better if their fans disregarded longstanding rivalries is a bit odd.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,068

    @rcs1000

    Why not the Elizabeth line? Far more convenient and cheaper too. (From a delayed LAX flight)

    FPT

    algarkirk said:

    DougSeal said:

    kle4 said:

    DougSeal said:

    Harry Maguire vs. Kylian Mbappé tonight is going to produce some of the greatest comedy since the earlier seasons of Frasier.

    Bet accordingly.

    Harry, England, and St George
    St George. Another foreigner taking a Brit’s job.

    https://www.historic-uk.com/HistoryUK/HistoryofEngland/Edmund-original-Patron-Saint-of-England/
    How many English saints are there?
    Quite a number. The patron saint before St George was St Edmund.

    https://www.historic-uk.com/HistoryUK/HistoryofEngland/Edmund-original-Patron-Saint-of-England/

    Then you have St Thomas a Becket, before the Reformation martyrs beginning with St Thomas More, and then most recently John Henry Newman. Going back to Edmund would be the least controversial.
    Yes, but Edmund was a king who lost a battle and refused to renounce Christ.

    11/10 for holiness (which is the point of saints, after all) but 0/10 for killing dragons or looking hard.
    Should be Bede anyway. Very English, and influential.
    IIRC he’s a Doctor of the Church, not a
    saint.
    You can be both. Like St Thomas Aquinas. Don't know if Bede made the cut. (He was
    of course Northumbrian.)

    Isn’t he the Venerable Bede?

    That’s only stage 1… stage 2 (beatification) is Blessed and stage 3 (canonisation) is Saint


    We had LOTS of bags, and the luggage storage on the Heathrow Express is better.

    Plus, with lots of bags, getting from Tottenham Court Road tube to the flat is a faff.

    But, you are completely correct that the Elizabeth line would have been quicker.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,068
    rcs1000 said:

    @rcs1000

    Why not the Elizabeth line? Far more convenient and cheaper too. (From a delayed LAX flight)

    FPT

    algarkirk said:

    DougSeal said:

    kle4 said:

    DougSeal said:

    Harry Maguire vs. Kylian Mbappé tonight is going to produce some of the greatest comedy since the earlier seasons of Frasier.

    Bet accordingly.

    Harry, England, and St George
    St George. Another foreigner taking a Brit’s job.

    https://www.historic-uk.com/HistoryUK/HistoryofEngland/Edmund-original-Patron-Saint-of-England/
    How many English saints are there?
    Quite a number. The patron saint before St George was St Edmund.

    https://www.historic-uk.com/HistoryUK/HistoryofEngland/Edmund-original-Patron-Saint-of-England/

    Then you have St Thomas a Becket, before the Reformation martyrs beginning with St Thomas More, and then most recently John Henry Newman. Going back to Edmund would be the least controversial.
    Yes, but Edmund was a king who lost a battle and refused to renounce Christ.

    11/10 for holiness (which is the point of saints, after all) but 0/10 for killing dragons or looking hard.
    Should be Bede anyway. Very English, and influential.
    IIRC he’s a Doctor of the Church, not a
    saint.
    You can be both. Like St Thomas Aquinas. Don't know if Bede made the cut. (He was
    of course Northumbrian.)

    Isn’t he the Venerable Bede?

    That’s only stage 1… stage 2 (beatification) is Blessed and stage 3 (canonisation) is Saint


    We had LOTS of bags, and the luggage storage on the Heathrow Express is better.

    Plus, with lots of bags, getting from Tottenham Court Road tube to the flat is a faff.

    But, you are completely correct that the Elizabeth line would have been quicker.
    Worth nothing that with a 12 year old and a 14 year old, they travel free on the Heathrow Express.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,429
    Goal !
  • Options
    FishingFishing Posts: 4,561
    Ghedebrav said:

    kle4 said:

    RobD said:

    kle4 said:

    Combing all the EU into one is not always reasonable, but if this is accurate I am still surprised everyone else added together goes past the USA.

    The pervasive DC narrative of the war around European free-loading is out of date. Europe is now paying more for the war than the United States. And these figures exclude the steep "energy tax" that Putin has imposed on the continent: which the Americans are not paying.


    https://twitter.com/b_judah/status/1601207409808379905?cxt=HHwWgsDQlfvp0LgsAAAA

    I wonder if it includes support for Ukrainian refugees which would be pretty massive in the EU and I guess minimal in the US?
    Likely, because everyone else has given next to nothing compared to the US in military aid.

    https://www.statista.com/chart/27278/military-aid-to-ukraine-by-country/
    Latvia, Estonia and Lithuania have given a lot, given their size though.

    On that linked data it's France, Spain and Italy who are the real holdouts (also Hungary, but no surprise there).
    A link further on shows support for Ukraine as a proportion of GDP - the Baltic states (Latvia especially) have contributed very significantly, as has Poland.

    https://www.ifw-kiel.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukraine-support-tracker/
    So would we if we'd spent centuries being occupied by Russia.

    The countries that know Russia the most like it least, for reasons that have become completely obvious since 24th February inst.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,429
    Go Morocco!
  • Options
    Wow - what a world cup this is
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,941
    You could hear the cheers for that goal, right across the Middle East!
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,429
    Some people may believe that it would be a positive development for the Moroccan football team to do well, as it could provide a sense of pride and accomplishment for the team and its fans, and could potentially have positive economic and social impacts for Morocco. Others may have different opinions on the matter, and may not think that the success of the Moroccan football team would have significant positive effects. Ultimately, whether or not the success of the Moroccan football team is a good thing depends on the perspective of the individual considering the question.
  • Options
    FishingFishing Posts: 4,561
    edited December 2022
    HYUFD said:

    LOL


    Why do they define themselves by being anti English?
    Because being anti-English gives them a convenient excuse for centuries of mediocrity, failure and insignificance?

    (Posted as somebody with genetics from all four home countries who doesn't give a monkey's about sport).
  • Options
    kamskikamski Posts: 4,316
    IanB2 said:

    Some people may believe that it would be a positive development for the Moroccan football team to do well, as it could provide a sense of pride and accomplishment for the team and its fans, and could potentially have positive economic and social impacts for Morocco. Others may have different opinions on the matter, and may not think that the success of the Moroccan football team would have significant positive effects. Ultimately, whether or not the success of the Moroccan football team is a good thing depends on the perspective of the individual considering the question.

    Why are you posting your chatbot experiments here?
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,429
    HT Morocco 1:0
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,429
    kamski said:

    IanB2 said:

    Some people may believe that it would be a positive development for the Moroccan football team to do well, as it could provide a sense of pride and accomplishment for the team and its fans, and could potentially have positive economic and social impacts for Morocco. Others may have different opinions on the matter, and may not think that the success of the Moroccan football team would have significant positive effects. Ultimately, whether or not the success of the Moroccan football team is a good thing depends on the perspective of the individual considering the question.

    Why are you posting your chatbot experiments here?
    • To demonstrate the capabilities of the language model and show how it can generate coherent and interesting text on a variety of topics.
    • To spark discussion and debate by introducing new ideas or perspectives that may not have been considered by other members of the forum.
    • To challenge other members of the forum to differentiate between human-generated content and content produced by a language model.
    • To experiment with the language model and see how it responds to different prompts or how its output is received by others.
    • As a form of entertainment, to generate humorous or surprising content that can be shared with other members of the forum.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,163
    edited December 2022
    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    Stocky said:

    It's what happens when decisions are based on populism. Views are easily expressed but have no depth.

    Decisions based on populism can have a number of negative consequences. One problem with populism is that it often involves appealing to the emotions and prejudices of the public, rather than relying on facts and evidence to make decisions. This can result in policies and decisions that are not well thought out and may not be in the best interests of the public. Additionally, populist leaders may be more interested in gaining and maintaining power than in governing effectively, which can lead to corruption and abuses of power. Finally, populism often involves pitting one group of people against another, which can create divisions and conflicts within a society.
    Text book description of late Toryism, 2016 to date.
    'Populist' movements by definition spring up where Governments make decisions against the views or even the interests of the general populace.

    'Popular' Government - by the people, for the people, works extremely well; it's what they have in Switzerland, which has done a lot better economically and socially than its EU neighbours.
    Switzerland has one of the wealthiest and most educated populations in the world, which reduces the risk of extremist populism
    • Wealth and education are not the only factors that can influence the rise of extremist populism. Other factors, such as political instability, social and economic inequality, and the presence of extremist political parties or movements, can also play a role.
    • Wealth and education do not necessarily prevent people from supporting extremist populist movements. In some cases, individuals who are well-educated and wealthy may be more likely to support extremist populist movements if they feel that their interests are threatened by the policies of the current government or by the actions of marginalized groups.
    • Wealth and education are not always distributed evenly within a country. Even in countries like Switzerland, which has high levels of wealth and education overall, there may be pockets of poverty and low educational attainment that could be fertile ground for the growth of extremist populist movements.
    • The relationship between wealth, education, and extremist populism is complex and can vary from one country to another. For example, some countries with high levels of wealth and education may still have a high risk of extremist populism, while other countries with lower levels of wealth and education may have a lower risk.

      Therefore, it's not always accurate to make broad generalizations about the relationship between these factors.


    On the whole it is, upper middle class voters voted Remain, the highest earning and most educated voted for Macron, Le Pen and Trump and the AfD and Sweden Democrats etc all do best with the White working class. It was also the working class who voted Leave and Yes to Scottish independence.

    Corbyn and Melenchon and Sanders all did and do best with those who are not wealthy and property owners.

    If you are wealthy, own property, highly educated and a high earner you are much more likely to vote for centrist rather than extremist parties as the status quo works very well for you
  • Options
    WillGWillG Posts: 2,113
    Fishing said:

    HYUFD said:

    LOL


    Why do they define themselves by being anti English?
    Because being anti-English gives them a convenient excuse for centuries of mediocrity, failure and insignificance?

    (Posted as somebody with genetics from all four home countries who doesn't give a monkey's about sport).
    Unreasonable to say Scotland has had centuries of mediocrity. They had a fantastic 19th Century.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,511
    IanB2 said:

    kamski said:

    IanB2 said:

    Some people may believe that it would be a positive development for the Moroccan football team to do well, as it could provide a sense of pride and accomplishment for the team and its fans, and could potentially have positive economic and social impacts for Morocco. Others may have different opinions on the matter, and may not think that the success of the Moroccan football team would have significant positive effects. Ultimately, whether or not the success of the Moroccan football team is a good thing depends on the perspective of the individual considering the question.

    Why are you posting your chatbot experiments here?
    • To demonstrate the capabilities of the language model and show how it can generate coherent and interesting text on a variety of topics.
    • To spark discussion and debate by introducing new ideas or perspectives that may not have been considered by other members of the forum.
    • To challenge other members of the forum to differentiate between human-generated content and content produced by a language model.
    • To experiment with the language model and see how it responds to different prompts or how its output is received by others.
    • As a form of entertainment, to generate humorous or surprising content that can be shared with other members of the forum.
    All your ChatGPT stuff is obvious. And boring. And spamming the site

    At least I try and make mine funny, or outrageous

    You need to desist, or find better prompts
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,429
    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    Stocky said:

    It's what happens when decisions are based on populism. Views are easily expressed but have no depth.

    Decisions based on populism can have a number of negative consequences. One problem with populism is that it often involves appealing to the emotions and prejudices of the public, rather than relying on facts and evidence to make decisions. This can result in policies and decisions that are not well thought out and may not be in the best interests of the public. Additionally, populist leaders may be more interested in gaining and maintaining power than in governing effectively, which can lead to corruption and abuses of power. Finally, populism often involves pitting one group of people against another, which can create divisions and conflicts within a society.
    Text book description of late Toryism, 2016 to date.
    'Populist' movements by definition spring up where Governments make decisions against the views or even the interests of the general populace.

    'Popular' Government - by the people, for the people, works extremely well; it's what they have in Switzerland, which has done a lot better economically and socially than its EU neighbours.
    Switzerland has one of the wealthiest and most educated populations in the world, which reduces the risk of extremist populism
    • Wealth and education are not the only factors that can influence the rise of extremist populism. Other factors, such as political instability, social and economic inequality, and the presence of extremist political parties or movements, can also play a role.
    • Wealth and education do not necessarily prevent people from supporting extremist populist movements. In some cases, individuals who are well-educated and wealthy may be more likely to support extremist populist movements if they feel that their interests are threatened by the policies of the current government or by the actions of marginalized groups.
    • Wealth and education are not always distributed evenly within a country. Even in countries like Switzerland, which has high levels of wealth and education overall, there may be pockets of poverty and low educational attainment that could be fertile ground for the growth of extremist populist movements.
    • The relationship between wealth, education, and extremist populism is complex and can vary from one country to another. For example, some countries with high levels of wealth and education may still have a high risk of extremist populism, while other countries with lower levels of wealth and education may have a lower risk.

      Therefore, it's not always accurate to make broad generalizations about the relationship between these factors.


    On the whole it is, upper middle class voters voted Remain, the highest earning and most educated voted for Macron, Le Pen and Trump and the AfD and Sweden Democrats etc all do best with the White working class. It was also the working class who voted Leave and Yes to Scottish independence.

    Corbyn and Melenchon and Sanders all did and do best with those who are now wealthy and property owners.

    If you are wealthy, own property, highly educated and a high earner you are much more likely to vote for centrist rather than extremist parties as the status quo works very well for you
    Your argument relies on broad generalizations and does not take into account the complexity and diversity of individual political beliefs and motivations. Just because someone is wealthy, owns property, is highly educated, and earns a high income does not necessarily mean that they will always vote for centrist parties.

    People may have different political beliefs and priorities, and may be influenced by factors other than their own personal circumstances.

    You do not consider the possibility that people who are wealthy, own property, are highly educated, and earn a high income may still have political beliefs and priorities that align with those of extremist parties. For example, some wealthy individuals may support extremist parties because they believe that these parties will protect their wealth and privilege, or because they are attracted to the extremist parties' ideologies.

    You do not take into account the fact that the political landscape and the appeal of extremist parties can vary from one country to another. In some countries, centrist parties may be more popular and successful, while in others, extremist parties may have more support. Therefore, it is not accurate to make broad generalizations about the relationship between personal circumstances and political preferences that apply to all countries.

    Overall, your argument that if you are wealthy, own property, highly educated, and a high earner, you are much more likely to vote for centrist rather than extremist parties is overly simplistic and does not adequately account for the complexity and diversity of individual political beliefs and motivations.
  • Options

    Tres said:

    Lots of parents seem to be concerned about this Strep thing and now my GPs just texted to say that they are no longer giving appointments for anything but same day emergencies.

    GPs only do same day emergencies?
    How the hell does that work?
    Recorded message: “This is your GP surgery. If you are dying, press 1. If you are dead, press 2. If not, phone back later when you are either dead or dying. Goodbye.”
    I got a text from mine the other day saying the same thing. There are no appointments available at all unless you are serious enough to need to be seen the same day. So you have to go through the phone line lottery. What constitutes serious enough to be seen the same day, they didn’t deign to explain.

    They blamed staff shortages.

    My sister, a mental health nurse, tells me a lot European nurses have left, to be replaced by African nurses, where she works. Nothing wrong with them being African, per se, but their English is much poorer. It’s causing problems.

    So why are GPs short staffed? Lazy GPs? Brexit? Putin’s illegal war in Ukraine?

    Whatever. My knee jerk reaction is just to blame the bastard Tories. A nice warm glow of righteous indignation fills my being. Job done.
    The collapse in health care doesn’t seem to be happening on the same scale in other countries.
    Perhaps this is a clue???
  • Options
    kamskikamski Posts: 4,316
    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    kamski said:

    IanB2 said:

    Some people may believe that it would be a positive development for the Moroccan football team to do well, as it could provide a sense of pride and accomplishment for the team and its fans, and could potentially have positive economic and social impacts for Morocco. Others may have different opinions on the matter, and may not think that the success of the Moroccan football team would have significant positive effects. Ultimately, whether or not the success of the Moroccan football team is a good thing depends on the perspective of the individual considering the question.

    Why are you posting your chatbot experiments here?
    • To demonstrate the capabilities of the language model and show how it can generate coherent and interesting text on a variety of topics.
    • To spark discussion and debate by introducing new ideas or perspectives that may not have been considered by other members of the forum.
    • To challenge other members of the forum to differentiate between human-generated content and content produced by a language model.
    • To experiment with the language model and see how it responds to different prompts or how its output is received by others.
    • As a form of entertainment, to generate humorous or surprising content that can be shared with other members of the forum.
    All your ChatGPT stuff is obvious. And boring. And spamming the site

    At least I try and make mine funny, or outrageous

    You need to desist, or find better prompts
    you're like these deluded comedians who think being "outrageous" makes them funny and interesting.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,511
    "On December 10, 2022, officers responded to a report of a man, identified as IanB, who was seen molesting dogs in the Isle of Wight. Upon arrival, officers located IanB, a homeless pensioner with a decrepit appearance. IanB smelled strongly of urine and had dung on his face.

    "Officers attempted to arrest IanB, but he resisted by throwing canine sex toys at them. After a brief struggle, IanB was taken into custody. No dogs were harmed during the incident.

    A search of IanB's belongings revealed a number of "dog love" magazines and a history of previous arrests for whining loudly and being annoyed by cleverer people. IanB was charged with animal cruelty and resisting arrest. He is being held in custody pending further legal proceedings. The investigation is ongoing."
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,988
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    @rcs1000

    Why not the Elizabeth line? Far more convenient and cheaper too. (From a delayed LAX flight)

    FPT

    algarkirk said:

    DougSeal said:

    kle4 said:

    DougSeal said:

    Harry Maguire vs. Kylian Mbappé tonight is going to produce some of the greatest comedy since the earlier seasons of Frasier.

    Bet accordingly.

    Harry, England, and St George
    St George. Another foreigner taking a Brit’s job.

    https://www.historic-uk.com/HistoryUK/HistoryofEngland/Edmund-original-Patron-Saint-of-England/
    How many English saints are there?
    Quite a number. The patron saint before St George was St Edmund.

    https://www.historic-uk.com/HistoryUK/HistoryofEngland/Edmund-original-Patron-Saint-of-England/

    Then you have St Thomas a Becket, before the Reformation martyrs beginning with St Thomas More, and then most recently John Henry Newman. Going back to Edmund would be the least controversial.
    Yes, but Edmund was a king who lost a battle and refused to renounce Christ.

    11/10 for holiness (which is the point of saints, after all) but 0/10 for killing dragons or looking hard.
    Should be Bede anyway. Very English, and influential.
    IIRC he’s a Doctor of the Church, not a
    saint.
    You can be both. Like St Thomas Aquinas. Don't know if Bede made the cut. (He was
    of course Northumbrian.)

    Isn’t he the Venerable Bede?

    That’s only stage 1… stage 2 (beatification) is Blessed and stage 3 (canonisation) is Saint


    We had LOTS of bags, and the luggage storage on the Heathrow Express is better.

    Plus, with lots of bags, getting from Tottenham Court Road tube to the flat is a faff.

    But, you are completely correct that the Elizabeth line would have been quicker.
    Worth nothing that with a 12 year old and a 14 year old, they travel free on the Heathrow Express.
    Isn't it rather expensive?
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,511
    EXCLUSIVE: PERVERTED PINK-FACED LITTLE MAN ARRESTED IN NUREMBURG!

    On December 10, 2022, officers in Nuremburg responded to reports of a tiny, pink-faced man exposing his pustuled bottom to horrified passersby. The man, known only as Kamski, was arrested on the spot and taken into custody.

    Kamski, a self-proclaimed Euronazi, was spotted by shocked witnesses wearing a peep hole bra, split crotch panties, a fake Hitler moustache, and a tartan beret. He was reportedly ululating and protesting about his inability to achieve an erection when officers arrived on the scene.

    This is not the first time that Kamski has been in trouble with the law. He has a history of arrests for similar offenses in Dresden and Berlin.

    Kamski is currently being held in custody pending further legal proceedings. We will bring you more on this story as it develops.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,163
    edited December 2022
    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    Stocky said:

    It's what happens when decisions are based on populism. Views are easily expressed but have no depth.

    Decisions based on populism can have a number of negative consequences. One problem with populism is that it often involves appealing to the emotions and prejudices of the public, rather than relying on facts and evidence to make decisions. This can result in policies and decisions that are not well thought out and may not be in the best interests of the public. Additionally, populist leaders may be more interested in gaining and maintaining power than in governing effectively, which can lead to corruption and abuses of power. Finally, populism often involves pitting one group of people against another, which can create divisions and conflicts within a society.
    Text book description of late Toryism, 2016 to date.
    'Populist' movements by definition spring up where Governments make decisions against the views or even the interests of the general populace.

    'Popular' Government - by the people, for the people, works extremely well; it's what they have in Switzerland, which has done a lot better economically and socially than its EU neighbours.
    Switzerland has one of the wealthiest and most educated populations in the world, which reduces the risk of extremist populism
    • Wealth and education are not the only factors that can influence the rise of extremist populism. Other factors, such as political instability, social and economic inequality, and the presence of extremist political parties or movements, can also play a role.
    • Wealth and education do not necessarily prevent people from supporting extremist populist movements. In some cases, individuals who are well-educated and wealthy may be more likely to support extremist populist movements if they feel that their interests are threatened by the policies of the current government or by the actions of marginalized groups.
    • Wealth and education are not always distributed evenly within a country. Even in countries like Switzerland, which has high levels of wealth and education overall, there may be pockets of poverty and low educational attainment that could be fertile ground for the growth of extremist populist movements.
    • The relationship between wealth, education, and extremist populism is complex and can vary from one country to another. For example, some countries with high levels of wealth and education may still have a high risk of extremist populism, while other countries with lower levels of wealth and education may have a lower risk.

      Therefore, it's not always accurate to make broad generalizations about the relationship between these factors.


    On the whole it is, upper middle class voters voted Remain, the highest earning and most educated voted for Macron, Le Pen and Trump and the AfD and Sweden Democrats etc all do best with the White working class. It was also the working class who voted Leave and Yes to Scottish independence.

    Corbyn and Melenchon and Sanders all did and do best with those who are now wealthy and property owners.

    If you are wealthy, own property, highly educated and a high earner you are much more likely to vote for centrist rather than extremist parties as the status quo works very well for you
    Your argument relies on broad generalizations and does not take into account the complexity and diversity of individual political beliefs and motivations. Just because someone is wealthy, owns property, is highly educated, and earns a high income does not necessarily mean that they will always vote for centrist parties.

    People may have different political beliefs and priorities, and may be influenced by factors other than their own personal circumstances.

    You do not consider the possibility that people who are wealthy, own property, are highly educated, and earn a high income may still have political beliefs and priorities that align with those of extremist parties. For example, some wealthy individuals may support extremist parties because they believe that these parties will protect their wealth and privilege, or because they are attracted to the extremist parties' ideologies.

    You do not take into account the fact that the political landscape and the appeal of extremist parties can vary from one country to another. In some countries, centrist parties may be more popular and successful, while in others, extremist parties may have more support. Therefore, it is not accurate to make broad generalizations about the relationship between personal circumstances and political preferences that apply to all countries.

    Overall, your argument that if you are wealthy, own property, highly educated, and a high earner, you are much more likely to vote for centrist rather than extremist parties is overly simplistic and does not adequately account for the complexity and diversity of individual political beliefs and motivations.
    I am sorry but on average it does.

    Name one extreme right or far left party or leader which does or did best with the highest earning and highest educated voters in that country?

    As I said too in the Scottish independence referendum it was working class voters who mostly voted Yes, middle class voters who mostly voted No.

    In the EU referendum too the working class mostly voted Leave, the upper middle class mostly voted Remain and the lower middle class were almost evenly divided

  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,136
    If Rishi Sunak wants a poll boost, he should find a way to hold Michelle Mone to account.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,511
    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    Stocky said:

    It's what happens when decisions are based on populism. Views are easily expressed but have no depth.

    Decisions based on populism can have a number of negative consequences. One problem with populism is that it often involves appealing to the emotions and prejudices of the public, rather than relying on facts and evidence to make decisions. This can result in policies and decisions that are not well thought out and may not be in the best interests of the public. Additionally, populist leaders may be more interested in gaining and maintaining power than in governing effectively, which can lead to corruption and abuses of power. Finally, populism often involves pitting one group of people against another, which can create divisions and conflicts within a society.
    Text book description of late Toryism, 2016 to date.
    'Populist' movements by definition spring up where Governments make decisions against the views or even the interests of the general populace.

    'Popular' Government - by the people, for the people, works extremely well; it's what they have in Switzerland, which has done a lot better economically and socially than its EU neighbours.
    Switzerland has one of the wealthiest and most educated populations in the world, which reduces the risk of extremist populism
    • Wealth and education are not the only factors that can influence the rise of extremist populism. Other factors, such as political instability, social and economic inequality, and the presence of extremist political parties or movements, can also play a role.
    • Wealth and education do not necessarily prevent people from supporting extremist populist movements. In some cases, individuals who are well-educated and wealthy may be more likely to support extremist populist movements if they feel that their interests are threatened by the policies of the current government or by the actions of marginalized groups.
    • Wealth and education are not always distributed evenly within a country. Even in countries like Switzerland, which has high levels of wealth and education overall, there may be pockets of poverty and low educational attainment that could be fertile ground for the growth of extremist populist movements.
    • The relationship between wealth, education, and extremist populism is complex and can vary from one country to another. For example, some countries with high levels of wealth and education may still have a high risk of extremist populism, while other countries with lower levels of wealth and education may have a lower risk.

      Therefore, it's not always accurate to make broad generalizations about the relationship between these factors.


    On the whole it is, upper middle class voters voted Remain, the highest earning and most educated voted for Macron, Le Pen and Trump and the AfD and Sweden Democrats etc all do best with the White working class. It was also the working class who voted Leave and Yes to Scottish independence.

    Corbyn and Melenchon and Sanders all did and do best with those who are now wealthy and property owners.

    If you are wealthy, own property, highly educated and a high earner you are much more likely to vote for centrist rather than extremist parties as the status quo works very well for you
    Your argument relies on broad generalizations and does not take into account the complexity and diversity of individual political beliefs and motivations. Just because someone is wealthy, owns property, is highly educated, and earns a high income does not necessarily mean that they will always vote for centrist parties.

    People may have different political beliefs and priorities, and may be influenced by factors other than their own personal circumstances.

    You do not consider the possibility that people who are wealthy, own property, are highly educated, and earn a high income may still have political beliefs and priorities that align with those of extremist parties. For example, some wealthy individuals may support extremist parties because they believe that these parties will protect their wealth and privilege, or because they are attracted to the extremist parties' ideologies.

    You do not take into account the fact that the political landscape and the appeal of extremist parties can vary from one country to another. In some countries, centrist parties may be more popular and successful, while in others, extremist parties may have more support. Therefore, it is not accurate to make broad generalizations about the relationship between personal circumstances and political preferences that apply to all countries.

    Overall, your argument that if you are wealthy, own property, highly educated, and a high earner, you are much more likely to vote for centrist rather than extremist parties is overly simplistic and does not adequately account for the complexity and diversity of individual political beliefs and motivations.
    I am sorry but on average it does.

    Name one extreme right or far left party or leader which does or did best with the highest earning and highest educated voters in that country?

    As I said too in the Scottish independence referendum it was working class voters who mostly voted Yes, middle class voters who mostlyvoted No.

    In the EU referendum too the working class mostly voted Leave, the upper middle class mostly voted Remain and the lower middle class were almost evenly divided

    Mate, you're talking to a stupid robot. And I wouldn't be surprised if IanB got some help from a computer, as well
  • Options
    DJ41DJ41 Posts: 792
    HYUFD said:

    LOL


    Why do they define themselves by being anti English?
    Most Irish and Welsh people DON'T define themselves by being anti-English.
    It's Scotland where that foolish mentality is most rife.
  • Options

    If Rishi Sunak wants a poll boost, he should find a way to hold Michelle Mone to account.

    I would be very surprised if this matter is not ultimately investigated by the police
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,511
    DJ41 said:

    Leon said:

    "On December 10, 2022, officers responded to a report of a man, identified as IanB, who was seen molesting dogs in the Isle of Wight. Upon arrival, officers located IanB, a homeless pensioner with a decrepit appearance. IanB smelled strongly of urine and had dung on his face.

    "Officers attempted to arrest IanB, but he resisted by throwing canine sex toys at them. After a brief struggle, IanB was taken into custody. No dogs were harmed during the incident.

    A search of IanB's belongings revealed a number of "dog love" magazines and a history of previous arrests for whining loudly and being annoyed by cleverer people. IanB was charged with animal cruelty and resisting arrest. He is being held in custody pending further legal proceedings. The investigation is ongoing."

    "At least I try and make mine funny, or outrageous".

    That rubbish definitely wasn't funny. Was it outrageous? Maybe. But so is dropping your pants and sh*tting on the floor in a restaurant.
    But it is interesting how ChatGPT can take the same facts and put them in an entirely different frame, with ease. See here:

    "I am a psychotherapist who has been asked to evaluate IanB, a homeless pensioner who was arrested on December 10, 2022 in the Isle of Wight for molesting dogs.

    Based on my evaluation, it is clear that IanB has significant psychological issues. He exhibits symptoms of a number of mental health disorders, including animal cruelty, a lack of impulse control, and a desire to rub poo on his face. He has a distorted sense of reality and a lack of empathy for the dogs he molested.

    IanB's homeless status, lack of friends, and the strong smell of urine on his person suggest that he is struggling to cope with life on the streets. He appears to be disconnected from society and is at risk of further harm to himself and others.

    It is recommended that IanB receive immediate psychiatric treatment in order to address his mental health issues and prevent further incidents of animal cruelty."

  • Options
    FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,017
    kamski said:

    IanB2 said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    kle4 said:

    Combing all the EU into one is not always reasonable, but if this is accurate I am still surprised everyone else added together goes past the USA.

    The pervasive DC narrative of the war around European free-loading is out of date. Europe is now paying more for the war than the United States. And these figures exclude the steep "energy tax" that Putin has imposed on the continent: which the Americans are not paying.


    https://twitter.com/b_judah/status/1601207409808379905?cxt=HHwWgsDQlfvp0LgsAAAA

    I wonder if it includes support for Ukrainian refugees which would be pretty massive in the EU and I guess minimal in the US?
    Likely, because everyone else has given next to nothing compared to the US in military aid.

    https://www.statista.com/chart/27278/military-aid-to-ukraine-by-country/
    But the wider impact of the energy crisis has been overwhelmingly on the EU/UK, whilst the US has gone around signing lucrative LNG deals.
    They were warned about reliance on Russian gas by the U.S., but they just laughed.
    We should be equally wary (for different reasons) about overreliance on US LNG.
    There are several potential risks associated with the UK becoming over-reliant upon liquid natural gas (LNG) from the United States. Some of these risks might include:
    • Dependence on a single source of energy, which could make the UK vulnerable to disruptions or changes in the supply of LNG from the United States.
    • Potential for price volatility, as the UK would be subject to the market conditions and pricing decisions of LNG producers in the United States.
    • Reduced bargaining power and leverage in negotiations with the United States and other LNG producers, as the UK would be more reliant on their supplies.
    • Risk of undermining domestic energy production and the development of alternative energy sources, as the UK may be less incentivized to invest in its own energy infrastructure.
    These are just a few examples of the potential risks of the UK becoming over-reliant on LNG from the United States. It's important for the UK to carefully consider and manage these risks in order to ensure a secure and stable energy supply.


    There should be a button to flag posts as being too obviously written by chatGPT
    There already is. If you look at the top of the post and it says Leon, it’s written by chatGPT.
  • Options
    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    kamski said:

    IanB2 said:

    Some people may believe that it would be a positive development for the Moroccan football team to do well, as it could provide a sense of pride and accomplishment for the team and its fans, and could potentially have positive economic and social impacts for Morocco. Others may have different opinions on the matter, and may not think that the success of the Moroccan football team would have significant positive effects. Ultimately, whether or not the success of the Moroccan football team is a good thing depends on the perspective of the individual considering the question.

    Why are you posting your chatbot experiments here?
    • To demonstrate the capabilities of the language model and show how it can generate coherent and interesting text on a variety of topics.
    • To spark discussion and debate by introducing new ideas or perspectives that may not have been considered by other members of the forum.
    • To challenge other members of the forum to differentiate between human-generated content and content produced by a language model.
    • To experiment with the language model and see how it responds to different prompts or how its output is received by others.
    • As a form of entertainment, to generate humorous or surprising content that can be shared with other members of the forum.
    All your ChatGPT stuff is obvious. And boring. And spamming the site

    At least I try and make mine funny, or outrageous

    You need to desist, or find better prompts
    "Look at you! You can't sing, you can't play, you look awful!"

    [snaps KitKat]

    "You'll go a long way!"
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,511

    kamski said:

    IanB2 said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    kle4 said:

    Combing all the EU into one is not always reasonable, but if this is accurate I am still surprised everyone else added together goes past the USA.

    The pervasive DC narrative of the war around European free-loading is out of date. Europe is now paying more for the war than the United States. And these figures exclude the steep "energy tax" that Putin has imposed on the continent: which the Americans are not paying.


    https://twitter.com/b_judah/status/1601207409808379905?cxt=HHwWgsDQlfvp0LgsAAAA

    I wonder if it includes support for Ukrainian refugees which would be pretty massive in the EU and I guess minimal in the US?
    Likely, because everyone else has given next to nothing compared to the US in military aid.

    https://www.statista.com/chart/27278/military-aid-to-ukraine-by-country/
    But the wider impact of the energy crisis has been overwhelmingly on the EU/UK, whilst the US has gone around signing lucrative LNG deals.
    They were warned about reliance on Russian gas by the U.S., but they just laughed.
    We should be equally wary (for different reasons) about overreliance on US LNG.
    There are several potential risks associated with the UK becoming over-reliant upon liquid natural gas (LNG) from the United States. Some of these risks might include:
    • Dependence on a single source of energy, which could make the UK vulnerable to disruptions or changes in the supply of LNG from the United States.
    • Potential for price volatility, as the UK would be subject to the market conditions and pricing decisions of LNG producers in the United States.
    • Reduced bargaining power and leverage in negotiations with the United States and other LNG producers, as the UK would be more reliant on their supplies.
    • Risk of undermining domestic energy production and the development of alternative energy sources, as the UK may be less incentivized to invest in its own energy infrastructure.
    These are just a few examples of the potential risks of the UK becoming over-reliant on LNG from the United States. It's important for the UK to carefully consider and manage these risks in order to ensure a secure and stable energy supply.


    There should be a button to flag posts as being too obviously written by chatGPT
    There already is. If you look at the top of the post and it says Leon, it’s written by chatGPT.
    I bet I could fool you, actually

    I've realised that if you use the right prompts you can vary ChatGPT's banal style
  • Options
    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,880

    I don’t there’s much affection for the EU per se.
    Just frustration with how shit Brexit has (predictably) turned out to be.

    Generating affection for the EU is a project that still remains. It may not actually be possible, as the EU is not designed to be especially lovable.

    Mind you, neither are insurance policies.

    Question is, what do we collectively do with the realisation that the EU isn't loveable, isn't trying to be loveable, probably isn't capable of being loveable, but is still a net positive?

    At the moment, a lot of Brits are still hoping for a relationship that gives us the benefits of Euro engagement without any of the drawbacks. That ain't gonna happen.

    On which topic, Sam Freedman has the results of some professional polling he has got done. I won't post the details, but the question, "what would you most fear about re-engaging with the EU" is worth thinking about.
    I’m too cheap to pay Sam Freedman’s for substack. Personally, I “fear” re-entering the EU under humiliating terms. I’ve no desire to see the country in submission.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,511
    ChatGPT does a pretty good kids' diary:




    "Dear diary,

    Today I saw something so scary that I don't even want to think about it. I was playing in the park in Ventnor when I saw this man, IanB, molesting a dog. It was so gross and weird that I didn't know what to do.

    IanB is a homeless pensioner with no friends who smelled really bad and had poo on his face. He was arrested by the police, but I'm still really scared. I don't want to go back to that park ever again.

    I hope they lock him for up a long time. I don't like what he does to dogs and the smell of the poo is horrible. I'm not sure I can sleep tonight"

  • Options
    GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,022
    IanB2 said:

    HT Morocco 1:0

    We're on the brink of seeing an African nation in the semi-finals for the first time. Though Portugal are absolutely Uruguay's equals in shithousery, so not ruling them out whatsoever. I do hope they bottle it though, especially to see CR7 fail.
  • Options
    DriverDriver Posts: 4,522
    Ghedebrav said:

    IanB2 said:

    HT Morocco 1:0

    We're on the brink of seeing an African nation in the semi-finals for the first time. Though Portugal are absolutely Uruguay's equals in shithousery, so not ruling them out whatsoever. I do hope they bottle it though, especially to see CR7 fail.
    That said, the Morocco fans are more annoying than a stadium full of vuvuzelas.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,511
    the old man IanB
    rubbed poo on his face
    molested dogs
    in disgrace

    IanB, the lonely soul
    smelled of pee
    a homeless pensioner
    with nowhere to be

    arrested in the Isle of Wight
    IanB's fate sealed tight

    a life of shame
    and filth and pain
    never to be seen again.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,511
    HAHAHAHAHA
  • Options
    TimSTimS Posts: 9,768
    Very oddly, ChatGPT had just given me some post match punditry on an imaginary victory by Morocco which implies it’s learning from recent prompts by others:

    “Overall, it was a fantastic performance from Morocco, and they fully deserved their win. They will now go on to face the winner of the match between England and France in the semifinals, and they will be confident of causing another upset. For Portugal, it's a disappointing end to their campaign, but they can hold their heads high after a strong showing in the tournament.”

    So either huge coincidence, or people have been promoting it about England v France and it’s learned.
  • Options
    TimSTimS Posts: 9,768
    Leon said:

    kamski said:

    IanB2 said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    kle4 said:

    Combing all the EU into one is not always reasonable, but if this is accurate I am still surprised everyone else added together goes past the USA.

    The pervasive DC narrative of the war around European free-loading is out of date. Europe is now paying more for the war than the United States. And these figures exclude the steep "energy tax" that Putin has imposed on the continent: which the Americans are not paying.


    https://twitter.com/b_judah/status/1601207409808379905?cxt=HHwWgsDQlfvp0LgsAAAA

    I wonder if it includes support for Ukrainian refugees which would be pretty massive in the EU and I guess minimal in the US?
    Likely, because everyone else has given next to nothing compared to the US in military aid.

    https://www.statista.com/chart/27278/military-aid-to-ukraine-by-country/
    But the wider impact of the energy crisis has been overwhelmingly on the EU/UK, whilst the US has gone around signing lucrative LNG deals.
    They were warned about reliance on Russian gas by the U.S., but they just laughed.
    We should be equally wary (for different reasons) about overreliance on US LNG.
    There are several potential risks associated with the UK becoming over-reliant upon liquid natural gas (LNG) from the United States. Some of these risks might include:
    • Dependence on a single source of energy, which could make the UK vulnerable to disruptions or changes in the supply of LNG from the United States.
    • Potential for price volatility, as the UK would be subject to the market conditions and pricing decisions of LNG producers in the United States.
    • Reduced bargaining power and leverage in negotiations with the United States and other LNG producers, as the UK would be more reliant on their supplies.
    • Risk of undermining domestic energy production and the development of alternative energy sources, as the UK may be less incentivized to invest in its own energy infrastructure.
    These are just a few examples of the potential risks of the UK becoming over-reliant on LNG from the United States. It's important for the UK to carefully consider and manage these risks in order to ensure a secure and stable energy supply.


    There should be a button to flag posts as being too obviously written by chatGPT
    There already is. If you look at the top of the post and it says Leon, it’s written by chatGPT.
    I bet I could fool you, actually

    I've realised that if you use the right prompts you can vary ChatGPT's banal style
    You can. I’ve had it writing in a terse grumpy style on imaginary emails and it’s almost but not quite malcolmg standards.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,020
    Driver said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    IanB2 said:

    HT Morocco 1:0

    We're on the brink of seeing an African nation in the semi-finals for the first time. Though Portugal are absolutely Uruguay's equals in shithousery, so not ruling them out whatsoever. I do hope they bottle it though, especially to see CR7 fail.
    That said, the Morocco fans are more annoying than a stadium full of vuvuzelas.
    Steady on, nothing could be that bad.
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    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,205
    Who won the 1993 FA Cup?

    Arsenal won the 1993 FA Cup, beating Sheffield Wednesday 2–1 in the final.


    This AI thing really isn’t very intelligent.
  • Options
    ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 2,960
    There's a lot more dog abuse and poo-themed posts than usual today.
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    DriverDriver Posts: 4,522
    Great save by Bono.
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    TimSTimS Posts: 9,768
    The ITV commentary is the usual utter fate tempting premature complacency about Morocco.

    They do that in England games constantly. Always remember the Romania game in 98 (I think?). “You get the feeling If anyone’s going to win this now it’s England”. And then Romania score the winner.
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    LeonLeon Posts: 47,511
    INT. LIVING ROOM - DAY

    We see SUSAN and JAMES, a well-to-do couple in their mid-40s, sitting on their expensive sofa. They are both visibly shaken and disturbed.

    SUSAN:

    I can't believe what we saw today, James. It was horrifying.

    JAMES:

    I know, Susan. I still can't get the image out of my head.

    SUSAN:

    That poor man, IanB, covered in filth and urine, molesting those poor dogs. It was like something out of a nightmare.

    JAMES:

    And the way he was rubbing poo on his face, it was like he had no regard for human decency.

    SUSAN:

    I can't believe this is happening in our town, Ventnor, in the Isle of Wight. It's supposed to be a safe and peaceful place.

    JAMES:

    I know, Susan. It just goes to show that you never know what's lurking beneath the surface.

    SUSAN:

    We have to do something, James. We can't just sit here and do nothing.

    JAMES:

    You're right, Susan. We have to call the police and report what we saw. We can't let IanB get away with this.

    SUSAN:

    Yes, we have to do the right thing. For the sake of those poor dogs, and for the safety of our community.

    They both nod in agreement, determined to take action.

    FADE TO BLACK.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,385
    DJ41 said:

    HYUFD said:

    LOL


    Why do they define themselves by being anti English?
    Most Irish and Welsh people DON'T define themselves by being anti-English.
    It's Scotland where that foolish mentality is most rife.
    I do. But only to confuse the hell out of @malcolmg
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    DriverDriver Posts: 4,522
    TimS said:

    The ITV commentary is the usual utter fate tempting premature complacency about Morocco.

    They do that in England games constantly. Always remember the Romania game in 98 (I think?). “You get the feeling If anyone’s going to win this now it’s England”. And then Romania score the winner.

    And the "will he score?" thing in that shootout (Batty's miss, perhaps?)
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    EPGEPG Posts: 6,023
    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    Stocky said:

    It's what happens when decisions are based on populism. Views are easily expressed but have no depth.

    Decisions based on populism can have a number of negative consequences. One problem with populism is that it often involves appealing to the emotions and prejudices of the public, rather than relying on facts and evidence to make decisions. This can result in policies and decisions that are not well thought out and may not be in the best interests of the public. Additionally, populist leaders may be more interested in gaining and maintaining power than in governing effectively, which can lead to corruption and abuses of power. Finally, populism often involves pitting one group of people against another, which can create divisions and conflicts within a society.
    Text book description of late Toryism, 2016 to date.
    'Populist' movements by definition spring up where Governments make decisions against the views or even the interests of the general populace.

    'Popular' Government - by the people, for the people, works extremely well; it's what they have in Switzerland, which has done a lot better economically and socially than its EU neighbours.
    Switzerland has one of the wealthiest and most educated populations in the world, which reduces the risk of extremist populism
    • Wealth and education are not the only factors that can influence the rise of extremist populism. Other factors, such as political instability, social and economic inequality, and the presence of extremist political parties or movements, can also play a role.
    • Wealth and education do not necessarily prevent people from supporting extremist populist movements. In some cases, individuals who are well-educated and wealthy may be more likely to support extremist populist movements if they feel that their interests are threatened by the policies of the current government or by the actions of marginalized groups.
    • Wealth and education are not always distributed evenly within a country. Even in countries like Switzerland, which has high levels of wealth and education overall, there may be pockets of poverty and low educational attainment that could be fertile ground for the growth of extremist populist movements.
    • The relationship between wealth, education, and extremist populism is complex and can vary from one country to another. For example, some countries with high levels of wealth and education may still have a high risk of extremist populism, while other countries with lower levels of wealth and education may have a lower risk.

      Therefore, it's not always accurate to make broad generalizations about the relationship between these factors.


    On the whole it is, upper middle class voters voted Remain, the highest earning and most educated voted for Macron, Le Pen and Trump and the AfD and Sweden Democrats etc all do best with the White working class. It was also the working class who voted Leave and Yes to Scottish independence.

    Corbyn and Melenchon and Sanders all did and do best with those who are now wealthy and property owners.

    If you are wealthy, own property, highly educated and a high earner you are much more likely to vote for centrist rather than extremist parties as the status quo works very well for you
    Your argument relies on broad generalizations and does not take into account the complexity and diversity of individual political beliefs and motivations. Just because someone is wealthy, owns property, is highly educated, and earns a high income does not necessarily mean that they will always vote for centrist parties.

    People may have different political beliefs and priorities, and may be influenced by factors other than their own personal circumstances.

    You do not consider the possibility that people who are wealthy, own property, are highly educated, and earn a high income may still have political beliefs and priorities that align with those of extremist parties. For example, some wealthy individuals may support extremist parties because they believe that these parties will protect their wealth and privilege, or because they are attracted to the extremist parties' ideologies.

    You do not take into account the fact that the political landscape and the appeal of extremist parties can vary from one country to another. In some countries, centrist parties may be more popular and successful, while in others, extremist parties may have more support. Therefore, it is not accurate to make broad generalizations about the relationship between personal circumstances and political preferences that apply to all countries.

    Overall, your argument that if you are wealthy, own property, highly educated, and a high earner, you are much more likely to vote for centrist rather than extremist parties is overly simplistic and does not adequately account for the complexity and diversity of individual political beliefs and motivations.
    I am sorry but on average it does.

    Name one extreme right or far left party or leader which does or did best with the highest earning and highest educated voters in that country?

    As I said too in the Scottish independence referendum it was working class voters who mostly voted Yes, middle class voters who mostly voted No.

    In the EU referendum too the working class mostly voted Leave, the upper middle class mostly voted Remain and the lower middle class were almost evenly divided

    Trump of course did several points better among high earners than low earners, though he did slightly worse among the very highest earners than above-average earners. Needless to say, this is correlated to the USA's stark economic inequality by ethnic heritage.
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    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,910
    edited December 2022
    ohnotnow said:

    There's a lot more dog abuse and poo-themed posts than usual today.

    Today, PB rather reminds me of Billy Connolly's infamous hotel room with Siri installed.

    https://m.facebook.com/FansBillyConnolly/videos/billy-connolly-hotel-room/752563692566809/
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,385
    ohnotnow said:

    There's a lot more dog abuse and poo-themed posts than usual today.

    I'm assuming that his supplier didn't break it down as far as normal.
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    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,988
    Morocco have had just 27% of possession.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/football/61047820
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    Pepe is shite.
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    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,910

    Pepe is shite.

    Not to mention PB today.
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    The Ronaldo meltdown is something to behold.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,941
    Morocco!! 🇲🇦
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    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,907
    Excellent.
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    DriverDriver Posts: 4,522
    Andy_JS said:

    Morocco have had just 27% of possession.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/football/61047820

    And yet for all that possession, Portugal were pretty poor.
  • Options
    They've beaten Belgium, Spain and Portugal, and drawn with Croatia. Neither England nor France should be complacent about the semi-final.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,068
    Andy_JS said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    @rcs1000

    Why not the Elizabeth line? Far more convenient and cheaper too. (From a delayed LAX flight)

    FPT

    algarkirk said:

    DougSeal said:

    kle4 said:

    DougSeal said:

    Harry Maguire vs. Kylian Mbappé tonight is going to produce some of the greatest comedy since the earlier seasons of Frasier.

    Bet accordingly.

    Harry, England, and St George
    St George. Another foreigner taking a Brit’s job.

    https://www.historic-uk.com/HistoryUK/HistoryofEngland/Edmund-original-Patron-Saint-of-England/
    How many English saints are there?
    Quite a number. The patron saint before St George was St Edmund.

    https://www.historic-uk.com/HistoryUK/HistoryofEngland/Edmund-original-Patron-Saint-of-England/

    Then you have St Thomas a Becket, before the Reformation martyrs beginning with St Thomas More, and then most recently John Henry Newman. Going back to Edmund would be the least controversial.
    Yes, but Edmund was a king who lost a battle and refused to renounce Christ.

    11/10 for holiness (which is the point of saints, after all) but 0/10 for killing dragons or looking hard.
    Should be Bede anyway. Very English, and influential.
    IIRC he’s a Doctor of the Church, not a
    saint.
    You can be both. Like St Thomas Aquinas. Don't know if Bede made the cut. (He was
    of course Northumbrian.)

    Isn’t he the Venerable Bede?

    That’s only stage 1… stage 2 (beatification) is Blessed and stage 3 (canonisation) is Saint


    We had LOTS of bags, and the luggage storage on the Heathrow Express is better.

    Plus, with lots of bags, getting from Tottenham Court Road tube to the flat is a faff.

    But, you are completely correct that the Elizabeth line would have been quicker.
    Worth nothing that with a 12 year old and a 14 year old, they travel free on the Heathrow Express.
    Isn't it rather expensive?
    If you book in advance, no.

    If you turn up and book, yes.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,020

    They've beaten Belgium, Spain and Portugal, and drawn with Croatia. Neither England nor France should be complacent about the semi-final.

    They've conceded one goal, an own goal. Clearly they have a solid set up.
  • Options
    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,907
    Moroccan roll. 🎸🇲🇦
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,163
    edited December 2022
    EPG said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    Stocky said:

    It's what happens when decisions are based on populism. Views are easily expressed but have no depth.

    Decisions based on populism can have a number of negative consequences. One problem with populism is that it often involves appealing to the emotions and prejudices of the public, rather than relying on facts and evidence to make decisions. This can result in policies and decisions that are not well thought out and may not be in the best interests of the public. Additionally, populist leaders may be more interested in gaining and maintaining power than in governing effectively, which can lead to corruption and abuses of power. Finally, populism often involves pitting one group of people against another, which can create divisions and conflicts within a society.
    Text book description of late Toryism, 2016 to date.
    'Populist' movements by definition spring up where Governments make decisions against the views or even the interests of the general populace.

    'Popular' Government - by the people, for the people, works extremely well; it's what they have in Switzerland, which has done a lot better economically and socially than its EU neighbours.
    Switzerland has one of the wealthiest and most educated populations in the world, which reduces the risk of extremist populism
    • Wealth and education are not the only factors that can influence the rise of extremist populism. Other factors, such as political instability, social and economic inequality, and the presence of extremist political parties or movements, can also play a role.
    • Wealth and education do not necessarily prevent people from supporting extremist populist movements. In some cases, individuals who are well-educated and wealthy may be more likely to support extremist populist movements if they feel that their interests are threatened by the policies of the current government or by the actions of marginalized groups.
    • Wealth and education are not always distributed evenly within a country. Even in countries like Switzerland, which has high levels of wealth and education overall, there may be pockets of poverty and low educational attainment that could be fertile ground for the growth of extremist populist movements.
    • The relationship between wealth, education, and extremist populism is complex and can vary from one country to another. For example, some countries with high levels of wealth and education may still have a high risk of extremist populism, while other countries with lower levels of wealth and education may have a lower risk.

      Therefore, it's not always accurate to make broad generalizations about the relationship between these factors.


    On the whole it is, upper middle class voters voted Remain, the highest earning and most educated voted for Macron, Le Pen and Trump and the AfD and Sweden Democrats etc all do best with the White working class. It was also the working class who voted Leave and Yes to Scottish independence.

    Corbyn and Melenchon and Sanders all did and do best with those who are now wealthy and property owners.

    If you are wealthy, own property, highly educated and a high earner you are much more likely to vote for centrist rather than extremist parties as the status quo works very well for you
    Your argument relies on broad generalizations and does not take into account the complexity and diversity of individual political beliefs and motivations. Just because someone is wealthy, owns property, is highly educated, and earns a high income does not necessarily mean that they will always vote for centrist parties.

    People may have different political beliefs and priorities, and may be influenced by factors other than their own personal circumstances.

    You do not consider the possibility that people who are wealthy, own property, are highly educated, and earn a high income may still have political beliefs and priorities that align with those of extremist parties. For example, some wealthy individuals may support extremist parties because they believe that these parties will protect their wealth and privilege, or because they are attracted to the extremist parties' ideologies.

    You do not take into account the fact that the political landscape and the appeal of extremist parties can vary from one country to another. In some countries, centrist parties may be more popular and successful, while in others, extremist parties may have more support. Therefore, it is not accurate to make broad generalizations about the relationship between personal circumstances and political preferences that apply to all countries.

    Overall, your argument that if you are wealthy, own property, highly educated, and a high earner, you are much more likely to vote for centrist rather than extremist parties is overly simplistic and does not adequately account for the complexity and diversity of individual political beliefs and motivations.
    I am sorry but on average it does.

    Name one extreme right or far left party or leader which does or did best with the highest earning and highest educated voters in that country?

    As I said too in the Scottish independence referendum it was working class voters who mostly voted Yes, middle class voters who mostly voted No.

    In the EU referendum too the working class mostly voted Leave, the upper middle class mostly voted Remain and the lower middle class were almost evenly divided

    Trump of course did several points better among high earners than low earners, though he did slightly worse among the very highest earners than above-average earners. Needless to say, this is correlated to the USA's stark economic inequality by ethnic heritage.
    Partly true but as you say in 2020 Trump only tied Biden with the highest earners earning over $200 000 despite winning voters earning $100 000 to $199 999 by 16%.

    In 2016 Trump did best with middle earners earning $50 000 to $99 999
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    TazTaz Posts: 11,300
    Today I am Moroccan.
  • Options
    WillGWillG Posts: 2,113
    kle4 said:

    They've beaten Belgium, Spain and Portugal, and drawn with Croatia. Neither England nor France should be complacent about the semi-final.

    They've conceded one goal, an own goal. Clearly they have a solid set up.
    They are also now effectively the home team. The whole of the MENA region is supporting them.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,020
    Real team player?

    Cristiano Ronaldo walked straight off the pitch on his own at the final whistle, and was in tears as he went down the tunnel.

    His World Cup dream is over.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,163
    Well done Morocco, first African team and first Muslim majority nation to reach a World Cup semi finals
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,163
    kle4 said:

    Real team player?

    Cristiano Ronaldo walked straight off the pitch on his own at the final whistle, and was in tears as he went down the tunnel.

    His World Cup dream is over.

    If Argentina and Messi win it it will be even worse for him
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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,582
    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    kle4 said:

    Combing all the EU into one is not always reasonable, but if this is accurate I am still surprised everyone else added together goes past the USA.

    The pervasive DC narrative of the war around European free-loading is out of date. Europe is now paying more for the war than the United States. And these figures exclude the steep "energy tax" that Putin has imposed on the continent: which the Americans are not paying.


    https://twitter.com/b_judah/status/1601207409808379905?cxt=HHwWgsDQlfvp0LgsAAAA

    I wonder if it includes support for Ukrainian refugees which would be pretty massive in the EU and I guess minimal in the US?
    Likely, because everyone else has given next to nothing compared to the US in military aid.

    https://www.statista.com/chart/27278/military-aid-to-ukraine-by-country/
    But the wider impact of the energy crisis has been overwhelmingly on the EU/UK, whilst the US has gone around signing lucrative LNG deals.
    They were warned about reliance on Russian gas by the U.S., but they just laughed.
    We should be equally wary (for different reasons) about overreliance on US LNG.
    Agreed, too many eggs etc.
    LNG import means buying ship loads. The ships can come from one of dozens of countries - the system inherently allows for varied supply. In fact, there is a complex trade in bidding/buying cargos while they are already at sea.

    A gas pipeline ties you to one producer. There was a reason that Russian influenced politicians in Europe tried to ban LNG terminals in their countries.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,020
    I'd rather Morocco win than Argentina, Croatia, or France.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,582

    I don’t there’s much affection for the EU per se.
    Just frustration with how shit Brexit has (predictably) turned out to be.

    Generating affection for the EU is a project that still remains. It may not actually be possible, as the EU is not designed to be especially lovable.

    Mind you, neither are insurance policies.

    Question is, what do we collectively do with the realisation that the EU isn't loveable, isn't trying to be loveable, probably isn't capable of being loveable, but is still a net positive?

    At the moment, a lot of Brits are still hoping for a relationship that gives us the benefits of Euro engagement without any of the drawbacks. That ain't gonna happen.

    On which topic, Sam Freedman has the results of some professional polling he has got done. I won't post the details, but the question, "what would you most fear about re-engaging with the EU" is worth thinking about.
    I’m too cheap to pay Sam Freedman’s for substack. Personally, I “fear” re-entering the EU under humiliating terms. I’ve no desire to see the country in submission.
    I rather think the EU would offer the standard EU joining process and terms that other countries get.
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,205
    kle4 said:

    Real team player?

    Cristiano Ronaldo walked straight off the pitch on his own at the final whistle, and was in tears as he went down the tunnel.

    His World Cup dream is over.

    Ronaldo’s reaction strikes me as odd. I understand that it’s disappointing, but I’d have thought given what he’s been through, it would give him some perspective on life.
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,205
    HYUFD said:

    Well done Morocco, first African team and first Muslim majority nation to reach a World Cup semi finals

    Wrong.
  • Options

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    kle4 said:

    Combing all the EU into one is not always reasonable, but if this is accurate I am still surprised everyone else added together goes past the USA.

    The pervasive DC narrative of the war around European free-loading is out of date. Europe is now paying more for the war than the United States. And these figures exclude the steep "energy tax" that Putin has imposed on the continent: which the Americans are not paying.


    https://twitter.com/b_judah/status/1601207409808379905?cxt=HHwWgsDQlfvp0LgsAAAA

    I wonder if it includes support for Ukrainian refugees which would be pretty massive in the EU and I guess minimal in the US?
    Likely, because everyone else has given next to nothing compared to the US in military aid.

    https://www.statista.com/chart/27278/military-aid-to-ukraine-by-country/
    But the wider impact of the energy crisis has been overwhelmingly on the EU/UK, whilst the US has gone around signing lucrative LNG deals.
    They were warned about reliance on Russian gas by the U.S., but they just laughed.
    We should be equally wary (for different reasons) about overreliance on US LNG.
    Agreed, too many eggs etc.
    LNG import means buying ship loads. The ships can come from one of dozens of countries - the system inherently allows for varied supply. In fact, there is a complex trade in bidding/buying cargos while they are already at sea.

    A gas pipeline ties you to one producer. There was a reason that Russian influenced politicians in Europe tried to ban LNG terminals in their countries.
    Speaking of Russian-influenced politicians, ITV has a series about John Stonehouse in the new year. iirc he was picked up by the Australian police because they thought he was Lord Lucan.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,910
    saturday afternoon light relief (and especially for our trains and engineering enthusiasts for the last item)

    https://www.thenational.scot/culture/23174573.dig-reveals-scotlands-top-archaeological-discoveries-2022/
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    HYUFD said:

    Well done Morocco, first African team and first Muslim majority nation to reach a World Cup semi finals

    On the Muslm majority point, didn't Turkey reach the semis in 2002?
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,941
    WillG said:

    kle4 said:

    They've beaten Belgium, Spain and Portugal, and drawn with Croatia. Neither England nor France should be complacent about the semi-final.

    They've conceded one goal, an own goal. Clearly they have a solid set up.
    They are also now effectively the home team. The whole of the MENA region is supporting them.
    Yup. Most popular national flag in the sandpit at the moment. Brilliant from the Moroccans.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,020
    tlg86 said:

    kle4 said:

    Real team player?

    Cristiano Ronaldo walked straight off the pitch on his own at the final whistle, and was in tears as he went down the tunnel.

    His World Cup dream is over.

    Ronaldo’s reaction strikes me as odd. I understand that it’s disappointing, but I’d have thought given what he’s been through, it would give him some perspective on life.
    Hopefully his personality is not reflected by the quotes from his recent interview, where he did the prima donna thing of whinging about being disrespected, even as he openly showed no respect for others.
  • Options
    Congrats to Morocco!

    Can England follow in their footsteps? :lol:
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,941
    kle4 said:

    tlg86 said:

    kle4 said:

    Real team player?

    Cristiano Ronaldo walked straight off the pitch on his own at the final whistle, and was in tears as he went down the tunnel.

    His World Cup dream is over.

    Ronaldo’s reaction strikes me as odd. I understand that it’s disappointing, but I’d have thought given what he’s been through, it would give him some perspective on life.
    Hopefully his personality is not reflected by the quotes from his recent interview, where he did the prima donna thing of whinging about being disrespected, even as he openly showed no respect for others.
    Maybe we’ll see a Netflix documentary from him in a year’s time, moaning about how everyone he ever played against was a diving cheat who never showed him any respect.
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    IanB2 said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    Today’s independence poll:

    Yes wins these demographics:

    Men
    Women

    All age groups up to 44

    C1
    DE

    Central
    Glasgow
    Lothian
    Mid & Fife
    North East

    Remainers

    No wins these demographics:

    All age groups 45+

    AB
    C2

    Highlands & Islands
    South
    West

    Leavers

    I wonder if Leavers have a different socioeconomic profile in Scotland compared to England.

    Reason I wonder is that per this "No" is ahead with (what are usually thought of as Remainy) ABs yet also with Leavers.
    It was most working class Scots who voted Yes in 2014 and to leave the EU in England and Wales in 2016. Middle class Scots mostly voted No and the upper middle class in England and Wales mostly voted Remain.

    The difference is more an age thing, Leavers tend to be older Yes voters younger
    Regionally, the Highland region nearly voted to leave, combination of hardcore nats feeling it made indy more likely, fisherman, Tories, etc.

    I always felt that if Cummings was such a genius with his social media targeting, he would have realised that this region was for the taking, and if he'd have managed to push it over the line, it would have made Brexit's course in Scotland a lot smoother. I maintain that the Vote Leave campaign was rubbish and was a net drain on Leave votes.
    The Remain campaign was relentlessly negative, and while pointing out flaws is fine, they rarely tried to sell the EU as a positive force. Some on here instead portrayed the EU as a relentless, vengeful force we had better stay in or else. I recall Ruth Davison trying to be positive about the UK's influence in the EU, to laughter, as a rare example. The whole thing felt forced and reluctant, and ineffective. Endless moaning about being defeated by a bus has not helped make the case the Remain campaign was decent.

    The Leave campaign was by contrast reckless bombast, with definite elements stirring up anti-immigration fervour and misleading claims about imminence of Turkish accession and a far too cavalier attitude to any concerns about the difficult choices that would emerge in the event of a win. The insistence of smaller and smaller groups that only their Brexit is the real Brexit since the vote has shown the silliness of that approach.

    So I generally agree the campaigns were not great for either side. I'm not sure if Vote Leave was the bigger net drain, but I always felt that Leave would win because much of the public was at best lukewarm on the EU (they have become much more positive since), not because Vote Leave were effective.
    I thought Leave.eu deserved to be the lead campaign - their materials had much greater visual appeal and expressed more hope and confidence in the future. I thought 'Take back control' was a weak slogan that misread the times - in the 1980's that thrusting generation may have been swayed, but we today are scared of taking back control. I thought the NHS bus was quite good tactical move, in isolation. Otherwise, the campaign seemed confused and disparate, and too much based on individuals like Bojo and Gove and Leadsom doing their own riffs on Brexit and what it was. Logo was shite too.
    The Vote Leave and Leave.eu organizations both played a significant role in leading the campaign for the UK to leave the European Union (EU) in the Brexit referendum. The Vote Leave campaign was the official pro-Brexit campaign that was designated by the UK Electoral Commission, while Leave.eu was a separate campaign group that was not officially recognized.

    Each campaign had its own merits and strengths. The Vote Leave campaign was widely considered to be better organized and more professional, with a strong focus on political campaigning and voter outreach. It also had the backing of high-profile politicians, such as Boris Johnson and Michael Gove, and was able to raise significant amounts of money to support its efforts.

    In contrast, the Leave.eu campaign was seen as more populist and grassroots-oriented, with a strong emphasis on social media and digital campaigning. It was also more focused on immigration and other controversial issues, and was able to tap into a more emotionally charged and anti-establishment sentiment among some voters.

    Ultimately, both campaigns played a significant role in the successful Brexit vote, and the specific merits of each campaign will depend on individual opinions and perspectives.


    I worked with Vote Leave and I can tell you it was fricking terrible.

    I had to order, pay and deliver my own leaflets with precisely zero help from anyone.

    None of my emails were answered and no-one ever bothered to call and communicate with me.

    I eventually got a facsimile copy of a thank you letter for my £350 donation which arrived days before the vote itself.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,163
    edited December 2022

    HYUFD said:

    Well done Morocco, first African team and first Muslim majority nation to reach a World Cup semi finals

    On the Muslm majority point, didn't Turkey reach the semis in 2002?
    Correct, second then, though still first African team to reach the semi finals
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    tlg86 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Well done Morocco, first African team and first Muslim majority nation to reach a World Cup semi finals

    Wrong.
    Turkey?
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    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,333
    Great to see for 3 reasons:

    1st African team to make the semis
    We'll beat them no problem if we beat France
    Ronaldo crying
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    TimSTimS Posts: 9,768
    Sandpit said:

    WillG said:

    kle4 said:

    They've beaten Belgium, Spain and Portugal, and drawn with Croatia. Neither England nor France should be complacent about the semi-final.

    They've conceded one goal, an own goal. Clearly they have a solid set up.
    They are also now effectively the home team. The whole of the MENA region is supporting them.
    Yup. Most popular national flag in the sandpit at the moment. Brilliant from the Moroccans.
    Shows the incredible geographical extent of the Arab world. 8,000km of Arabic speakers unbroken from Casablanca to Muscat.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,163
    kle4 said:

    I'd rather Morocco win than Argentina, Croatia, or France.

    Though rather ironic given all the LGBT protests about Qatar hosting if Morocco did win as homosexuality is also illegal there
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