I don't support Rejoin but if the EU were really smart they'd offer Britain the same new deal that Cameron was offered, possibly with some extra safeguards on an emergency brake on free movement as well on top.
They'd probably get 70%+ voting for it and it'd settle the debate here for decades.
I don’t there’s much affection for the EU per se. Just frustration with how shit Brexit has (predictably) turned out to be.
Generating affection for the EU is a project that still remains. It may not actually be possible, as the EU is not designed to be especially lovable.
Mind you, neither are insurance policies.
Question is, what do we collectively do with the realisation that the EU isn't loveable, isn't trying to be loveable, probably isn't capable of being loveable, but is still a net positive?
At the moment, a lot of Brits are still hoping for a relationship that gives us the benefits of Euro engagement without any of the drawbacks. That ain't gonna happen.
On which topic, Sam Freedman has the results of some professional polling he has got done. I won't post the details, but the question, "what would you most fear about re-engaging with the EU" is worth thinking about.
I’m too cheap to pay Sam Freedman’s for substack. Personally, I “fear” re-entering the EU under humiliating terms. I’ve no desire to see the country in submission.
I rather think the EU would offer the standard EU joining process and terms that other countries get.
They are likely not good enough for the UK. The UK would need an opt-out of the Euro, for starters.
Cristiano Ronaldo walked straight off the pitch on his own at the final whistle, and was in tears as he went down the tunnel.
His World Cup dream is over.
Ronaldo’s reaction strikes me as odd. I understand that it’s disappointing, but I’d have thought given what he’s been through, it would give him some perspective on life.
I don't support Rejoin but if the EU were really smart they'd offer Britain the same new deal that Cameron was offered, possibly with some extra safeguards on an emergency brake on free movement as well on top.
They'd probably get 70%+ voting for it and it'd settle the debate here for decades.
Only if the rebate is re-instated and we are not committed to losing our currency.
Officiel du gouvernement - France Dear @RishiSunak , looking forward to the game tonight. If Les Bleus win (they will!), you’ll wish us luck in the semi-final… right?
I don't support Rejoin but if the EU were really smart they'd offer Britain the same new deal that Cameron was offered, possibly with some extra safeguards on an emergency brake on free movement as well on top.
They'd probably get 70%+ voting for it and it'd settle the debate here for decades.
Thing about a club is that you don't get a better deal than the members.
I don't support Rejoin but if the EU were really smart they'd offer Britain the same new deal that Cameron was offered, possibly with some extra safeguards on an emergency brake on free movement as well on top.
They'd probably get 70%+ voting for it and it'd settle the debate here for decades.
I think they are actually thinking of making an offer like that. The corner office at the top of the building is still available!
"Why is strep A surging — and how worried are scientists? The tragic deaths of 13 children in England and an unusual rise in autumn cases have put researchers on alert. 9 December 2022"
(Latest figure is 16.)
Molecular microbiologist Claire Turner at the University of Sheffield: "There are a lot of things that seem to be a bit strange happening after the lockdowns".
Unfortunately the article in Nature doesn't answer either of the questions in its title.
I don't support Rejoin but if the EU were really smart they'd offer Britain the same new deal that Cameron was offered, possibly with some extra safeguards on an emergency brake on free movement as well on top.
They'd probably get 70%+ voting for it and it'd settle the debate here for decades.
It’s quite possible that something like that, carefully packaged to make it look as though it’s not rejoining, would be offered to incoming PM Starmer.
Officiel du gouvernement - France Dear @RishiSunak , looking forward to the game tonight. If Les Bleus win (they will!), you’ll wish us luck in the semi-final… right?
I don't support Rejoin but if the EU were really smart they'd offer Britain the same new deal that Cameron was offered, possibly with some extra safeguards on an emergency brake on free movement as well on top.
They'd probably get 70%+ voting for it and it'd settle the debate here for decades.
That’s correct.
One other area that Cameron’s negotiation didn’t seem to address was Britain’s veto (or perhaps exclusion from) financial services legislation. Osborne warned in 2014 that Lisbon QMVs would mean that Britain could be outvoted in this area.
I don't support Rejoin but if the EU were really smart they'd offer Britain the same new deal that Cameron was offered, possibly with some extra safeguards on an emergency brake on free movement as well on top.
They'd probably get 70%+ voting for it and it'd settle the debate here for decades.
If they had offered Cameron that in the first place Remain would probably have narrowly won and there would have been no Brexit
Golly, It will even turn IanB into a legal contract
This contract, made and entered into on this day of December 10, 2022, by and between the Lieutenant of the Isle of Wight, acting by and through its duly appointed officers, and IanB, a homeless pensioner of the Isle of Wight, hereby witnesses as follows:
Whereas IanB has been arrested for the crime of molesting dogs, in violation of the laws of the Isle of Wight, and
Whereas IanB has been charged with animal cruelty and resisting arrest, and
Whereas IanB is currently in custody pending further legal proceedings, and
Whereas IanB is covered in dung and smells of urine, and has no friends,
Now, therefore, in consideration of the premises and the mutual covenants and agreements hereinafter set forth, the parties hereby agree as follows:
IanB shall remain in custody until such time as his legal proceedings are concluded.
IanB shall be afforded a fair and impartial trial, in accordance with the laws of the Isle of Wight.
If IanB is found guilty of the charges against him, he shall be punished according to the full extent of the law.
The Crown of the Isle of Wight shall take all necessary measures to ensure that IanB is treated humanely while in custody, despite his lack of friends and his foul smell.
This contract shall be binding upon the parties hereto and their respective successors and assigns.
IN WITNESS WHEREOF, the parties have executed this contract as of the date first above written.
Officiel du gouvernement - France Dear @RishiSunak , looking forward to the game tonight. If Les Bleus win (they will!), you’ll wish us luck in the semi-final… right?
I don't support Rejoin but if the EU were really smart they'd offer Britain the same new deal that Cameron was offered, possibly with some extra safeguards on an emergency brake on free movement as well on top.
They'd probably get 70%+ voting for it and it'd settle the debate here for decades.
It’s quite possible that something like that, carefully packaged to make it look as though it’s not rejoining, would be offered to incoming PM Starmer.
Not possible, because to be a voice on the rules of the single market surely means membership and democracy then demands representation in the European Parliament.
That's amazing. You can take one harmless little story - @IanB doing his dog n dung thing in Ventnor, and turn it onto poems, plays, chapters from Pride and Prejudice, petitions, proclamations, tabloid reports, diary entries, Pinter dramas, legal contracts, scenes from Breaking Bad...
I don't support Rejoin but if the EU were really smart they'd offer Britain the same new deal that Cameron was offered, possibly with some extra safeguards on an emergency brake on free movement as well on top.
They'd probably get 70%+ voting for it and it'd settle the debate here for decades.
Thing about a club is that you don't get a better deal than the members.
It's not a better deal from an EU perspective. It's worse. FoM is there to work to mutual advantage. If there are sometimes derogations then UK residents will have the disadvantage of sometimes not having full FoM to the rest of the EU, and vice versa.
The loony end of UKIP types seemed to believe sincerely that FoM was a one way street.
I don't support Rejoin but if the EU were really smart they'd offer Britain the same new deal that Cameron was offered, possibly with some extra safeguards on an emergency brake on free movement as well on top.
They'd probably get 70%+ voting for it and it'd settle the debate here for decades.
It’s quite possible that something like that, carefully packaged to make it look as though it’s not rejoining, would be offered to incoming PM Starmer.
Not possible, because to be a voice on the rules of the single market surely means membership and democracy then demands representation in the European Parliament.
Officiel du gouvernement - France Dear @RishiSunak , looking forward to the game tonight. If Les Bleus win (they will!), you’ll wish us luck in the semi-final… right?
That's amazing. You can take one harmless little story - @IanB doing his dog n dung thing in Ventnor, and turn it onto poems, plays, chapters from Pride and Prejudice, petitions, proclamations, tabloid reports, diary entries, Pinter dramas, legal contracts, scenes from Breaking Bad...
I don't support Rejoin but if the EU were really smart they'd offer Britain the same new deal that Cameron was offered, possibly with some extra safeguards on an emergency brake on free movement as well on top.
They'd probably get 70%+ voting for it and it'd settle the debate here for decades.
Only if the rebate is re-instated and we are not committed to losing our currency.
Why should the EU offer any of this? We are the ones that left and caused grief. This would be seen as rewarding our heresy
I don't support Rejoin but if the EU were really smart they'd offer Britain the same new deal that Cameron was offered, possibly with some extra safeguards on an emergency brake on free movement as well on top.
They'd probably get 70%+ voting for it and it'd settle the debate here for decades.
It’s quite possible that something like that, carefully packaged to make it look as though it’s not rejoining, would be offered to incoming PM Starmer.
Not possible, because to be a voice on the rules of the single market surely means membership and democracy then demands representation in the European Parliament.
I think.
Special trade and borders agreement?
That’s just EEA membership, essentially? My issue is that we are then subject to rules we don’t (help) make.
Well done Morocco, first African team and first Muslim majority nation to reach a World Cup semi finals
On the Muslm majority point, didn't Turkey reach the semis in 2002?
Correct, second then, though still first African team to reach the semi finals
All the teams from outside of Christian Europe deserve a jolly sincere pat on their heads for taking part, even if they weren't able to score any goals on this occasion.
I don't support Rejoin but if the EU were really smart they'd offer Britain the same new deal that Cameron was offered, possibly with some extra safeguards on an emergency brake on free movement as well on top.
They'd probably get 70%+ voting for it and it'd settle the debate here for decades.
Only if the rebate is re-instated and we are not committed to losing our currency.
I'm not sure the rebate would be the dealbreaker, actually.
I don't support Rejoin but if the EU were really smart they'd offer Britain the same new deal that Cameron was offered, possibly with some extra safeguards on an emergency brake on free movement as well on top.
They'd probably get 70%+ voting for it and it'd settle the debate here for decades.
Only if the rebate is re-instated and we are not committed to losing our currency.
I'm not sure the rebate would be the dealbreaker, actually.
The rest, yes.
The rebate is probably trivial. Some other countries get rebates, from memory.
I don't support Rejoin but if the EU were really smart they'd offer Britain the same new deal that Cameron was offered, possibly with some extra safeguards on an emergency brake on free movement as well on top.
They'd probably get 70%+ voting for it and it'd settle the debate here for decades.
It’s quite possible that something like that, carefully packaged to make it look as though it’s not rejoining, would be offered to incoming PM Starmer.
Rejoining the EU cannot be packaged as not rejoining the EU.
I don't support Rejoin but if the EU were really smart they'd offer Britain the same new deal that Cameron was offered, possibly with some extra safeguards on an emergency brake on free movement as well on top.
They'd probably get 70%+ voting for it and it'd settle the debate here for decades.
It’s quite possible that something like that, carefully packaged to make it look as though it’s not rejoining, would be offered to incoming PM Starmer.
Not possible, because to be a voice on the rules of the single market surely means membership and democracy then demands representation in the European Parliament.
I think.
Special trade and borders agreement?
That’s just EEA membership, essentially? My issue is that we are then subject to rules we don’t (help) make.
I don’t say it’s as good as what we had, but it would at least ameliorate the worst of the damage done by Brexit.
I don't support Rejoin but if the EU were really smart they'd offer Britain the same new deal that Cameron was offered, possibly with some extra safeguards on an emergency brake on free movement as well on top.
They'd probably get 70%+ voting for it and it'd settle the debate here for decades.
It’s quite possible that something like that, carefully packaged to make it look as though it’s not rejoining, would be offered to incoming PM Starmer.
Rejoining the EU cannot be packaged as not rejoining the EU.
I don't support Rejoin but if the EU were really smart they'd offer Britain the same new deal that Cameron was offered, possibly with some extra safeguards on an emergency brake on free movement as well on top.
They'd probably get 70%+ voting for it and it'd settle the debate here for decades.
Only if the rebate is re-instated and we are not committed to losing our currency.
Why should the EU offer any of this? We are the ones that left and caused grief. This would be seen as rewarding our heresy
Wishful thinking
I agree. Why would they want a troublesome member?
I don't support Rejoin but if the EU were really smart they'd offer Britain the same new deal that Cameron was offered, possibly with some extra safeguards on an emergency brake on free movement as well on top.
They'd probably get 70%+ voting for it and it'd settle the debate here for decades.
Only if the rebate is re-instated and we are not committed to losing our currency.
Why should the EU offer any of this? We are the ones that left and caused grief. This would be seen as rewarding our heresy
Wishful thinking
I agree. Why would they want a troublesome member?
For the same reason the Persians did a peace deal with Emperor Valerian.
What does an emergency brake on free movement look like?
Why did the UK never exercise the extant brake?
Genuine questions.
It looks like what the EEA countries have through article 112 of their agreement. Although Cameron arguably got closer than originally thought in his negotiation, according to this:
I don't support Rejoin but if the EU were really smart they'd offer Britain the same new deal that Cameron was offered, possibly with some extra safeguards on an emergency brake on free movement as well on top.
They'd probably get 70%+ voting for it and it'd settle the debate here for decades.
If they had offered Cameron that in the first place Remain would probably have narrowly won and there would have been no Brexit
Officiel du gouvernement - France Dear @RishiSunak , looking forward to the game tonight. If Les Bleus win (they will!), you’ll wish us luck in the semi-final… right?
I don't support Rejoin but if the EU were really smart they'd offer Britain the same new deal that Cameron was offered, possibly with some extra safeguards on an emergency brake on free movement as well on top.
They'd probably get 70%+ voting for it and it'd settle the debate here for decades.
That’s correct.
One other area that Cameron’s negotiation didn’t seem to address was Britain’s veto (or perhaps exclusion from) financial services legislation. Osborne warned in 2014 that Lisbon QMVs would mean that Britain could be outvoted in this area.
We were expecting Cameron to deliver on his Bloomberg speech of 2013.
Instead, he did a quick & dirty deal by shuttle diplomacy (which, to be fair, looked quite exhausting for him) and then pulled the starting trigger as fast as he could and then rolled out full Project Fear.
I don't support Rejoin but if the EU were really smart they'd offer Britain the same new deal that Cameron was offered, possibly with some extra safeguards on an emergency brake on free movement as well on top.
They'd probably get 70%+ voting for it and it'd settle the debate here for decades.
It’s quite possible that something like that, carefully packaged to make it look as though it’s not rejoining, would be offered to incoming PM Starmer.
Rejoining the EU cannot be packaged as not rejoining the EU.
Rejoining would be the 21st century answer to the Restoration of 1660.
"Concerned mums and dads have been swamping medical practices".
Just look at the word use : * patronising mostly Germanic noun phrase, * dirty verb, * professionalised jobby Latinate noun phrase.
It's not as if the concerned ones who are bothering the professionals are on strike either! They're ignorant and very gut-motivated, rather than being wicked, is the idea.
"Health experts have warned parents to be aware of the risks of children giving Strep A to their grandparents as the infection spreads across the UK.
The Christmas holiday period could be fatal if any children with the winter bug pass it on to the elderly and vulnerable (...)"
"The risk is not huge but one to be aware of, and older people should make sure they have their flu jabs."
I don't support Rejoin but if the EU were really smart they'd offer Britain the same new deal that Cameron was offered, possibly with some extra safeguards on an emergency brake on free movement as well on top.
They'd probably get 70%+ voting for it and it'd settle the debate here for decades.
It’s quite possible that something like that, carefully packaged to make it look as though it’s not rejoining, would be offered to incoming PM Starmer.
Rejoining the EU cannot be packaged as not rejoining the EU.
Rejoining would be the 21st century answer to the Restoration of 1660.
So people say. But then what would be the answer to 1688? The EU drastically losing its power?
Do you think I should cash out my France overall winner bet?
I got on at 6.8. Can cash out at 3.75
Nah. I'm on France for the tournament too. Perhaps its a heart over head thing but I'm feeling optimistic about tonight. I've just bet a tenner - I have much more on France overall.
That's amazing. You can take one harmless little story - @IanB doing his dog n dung thing in Ventnor, and turn it onto poems, plays, chapters from Pride and Prejudice, petitions, proclamations, tabloid reports, diary entries, Pinter dramas, legal contracts, scenes from Breaking Bad...
I don't support Rejoin but if the EU were really smart they'd offer Britain the same new deal that Cameron was offered, possibly with some extra safeguards on an emergency brake on free movement as well on top.
They'd probably get 70%+ voting for it and it'd settle the debate here for decades.
It’s quite possible that something like that, carefully packaged to make it look as though it’s not rejoining, would be offered to incoming PM Starmer.
Not possible, because to be a voice on the rules of the single market surely means membership and democracy then demands representation in the European Parliament.
I think.
An AI would be hopeless at solving this problem. It could repackage all the previous suggestions, all of which have been rejected for goodish reasons.
The trouble is that when you write down what the UK wants, it starts to look odd. A democratic say, including a veto, but not being involved in the politics. Frictionless access for goods, and easy movement on holidays, but the right to shut down our borders. We're not such good company that it makes sense for the EU to agree to that, especially if we are hoping not to pay into the common purse.
May's red lines led to her deal, and government backbenchers rejected that as betraying the Brexit vote. So- if the UK wants any degree of Brapprochment, what are we offering Europe to get it? All I see is people saying what the EU should offer us, and that's not the point. And some will find that humiliating.
I don't support Rejoin but if the EU were really smart they'd offer Britain the same new deal that Cameron was offered, possibly with some extra safeguards on an emergency brake on free movement as well on top.
They'd probably get 70%+ voting for it and it'd settle the debate here for decades.
It’s quite possible that something like that, carefully packaged to make it look as though it’s not rejoining, would be offered to incoming PM Starmer.
Rejoining the EU cannot be packaged as not rejoining the EU.
Rejoining would be the 21st century answer to the Restoration of 1660.
That bad then? The restored monarchy and ruling elite were widely despised, utterly debauched.
I don't support Rejoin but if the EU were really smart they'd offer Britain the same new deal that Cameron was offered, possibly with some extra safeguards on an emergency brake on free movement as well on top.
They'd probably get 70%+ voting for it and it'd settle the debate here for decades.
It’s quite possible that something like that, carefully packaged to make it look as though it’s not rejoining, would be offered to incoming PM Starmer.
Rejoining the EU cannot be packaged as not rejoining the EU.
Rejoining would be the 21st century answer to the Restoration of 1660.
That bad then? The restored monarchy and ruling elite were widely despised, utterly debauched.
Nearly 3 years after the first outbreak of SARSCoV2, the British state health system still can't handle an increase in phone calls relating to what at the moment is a small surge in infections with the bacterium best known for causing scarlet fever. No planning or anything like that, then?
I don't support Rejoin but if the EU were really smart they'd offer Britain the same new deal that Cameron was offered, possibly with some extra safeguards on an emergency brake on free movement as well on top.
They'd probably get 70%+ voting for it and it'd settle the debate here for decades.
It’s quite possible that something like that, carefully packaged to make it look as though it’s not rejoining, would be offered to incoming PM Starmer.
Not possible, because to be a voice on the rules of the single market surely means membership and democracy then demands representation in the European Parliament.
I think.
An AI would be hopeless at solving this problem. It could repackage all the previous suggestions, all of which have been rejected for goodish reasons.
The trouble is that when you write down what the UK wants, it starts to look odd. A democratic say, including a veto, but not being involved in the politics. Frictionless access for goods, and easy movement on holidays, but the right to shut down our borders. We're not such good company that it makes sense for the EU to agree to that, especially if we are hoping not to pay into the common purse.
May's red lines led to her deal, and government backbenchers rejected that as betraying the Brexit vote. So- if the UK wants any degree of Brapprochment, what are we offering Europe to get it? All I see is people saying what the EU should offer us, and that's not the point. And some will find that humiliating.
The EU's attitude at times was, presumably as a reflection of a strong position, somewhat bizarre, such as the insistence from some that there could be no movement on any issues at all (no cherry picking!), which would make the whole concept of negotiations pointless to begin with. The UK may have asked for unreaslitic things )it definitely did), but seeking to ask things was not inherently unreasonable, as many people alleged at the time.
I think our negotiating stance was worse, largely because even during it the May government had not agreed internally its position, but the whole affair was an exercise in bitter pointlessness.
I don't support Rejoin but if the EU were really smart they'd offer Britain the same new deal that Cameron was offered, possibly with some extra safeguards on an emergency brake on free movement as well on top.
They'd probably get 70%+ voting for it and it'd settle the debate here for decades.
It’s quite possible that something like that, carefully packaged to make it look as though it’s not rejoining, would be offered to incoming PM Starmer.
Not possible, because to be a voice on the rules of the single market surely means membership and democracy then demands representation in the European Parliament.
I think.
An AI would be hopeless at solving this problem. It could repackage all the previous suggestions, all of which have been rejected for goodish reasons.
The trouble is that when you write down what the UK wants, it starts to look odd. A democratic say, including a veto, but not being involved in the politics. Frictionless access for goods, and easy movement on holidays, but the right to shut down our borders. We're not such good company that it makes sense for the EU to agree to that, especially if we are hoping not to pay into the common purse.
May's red lines led to her deal, and government backbenchers rejected that as betraying the Brexit vote. So- if the UK wants any degree of Brapprochment, what are we offering Europe to get it? All I see is people saying what the EU should offer us, and that's not the point. And some will find that humiliating.
It's not to my taste but I think it's pretty obvious what Britain would offer the EU in rejoining and they might view it as a win-win.
It would be about showing some humility and magnanimity in the process and recognising the realpolitik but, sure, some would push to full Versailles it and I expect their voices would be stronger.
It's a really strange tournament, with all teams (except perhaps Morocco) seeming rather inconsistent . Against Switzerland, Portugal looked like world beaters. Today, they looked really ordinary.
I don't have a clue which versions of England and France will turn up tonight.
I wonder if Leavers have a different socioeconomic profile in Scotland compared to England.
Reason I wonder is that per this "No" is ahead with (what are usually thought of as Remainy) ABs yet also with Leavers.
It was most working class Scots who voted Yes in 2014 and to leave the EU in England and Wales in 2016. Middle class Scots mostly voted No and the upper middle class in England and Wales mostly voted Remain.
The difference is more an age thing, Leavers tend to be older Yes voters younger
Regionally, the Highland region nearly voted to leave, combination of hardcore nats feeling it made indy more likely, fisherman, Tories, etc.
I always felt that if Cummings was such a genius with his social media targeting, he would have realised that this region was for the taking, and if he'd have managed to push it over the line, it would have made Brexit's course in Scotland a lot smoother. I maintain that the Vote Leave campaign was rubbish and was a net drain on Leave votes.
The Remain campaign was relentlessly negative, and while pointing out flaws is fine, they rarely tried to sell the EU as a positive force. Some on here instead portrayed the EU as a relentless, vengeful force we had better stay in or else. I recall Ruth Davison trying to be positive about the UK's influence in the EU, to laughter, as a rare example. The whole thing felt forced and reluctant, and ineffective. Endless moaning about being defeated by a bus has not helped make the case the Remain campaign was decent.
The Leave campaign was by contrast reckless bombast, with definite elements stirring up anti-immigration fervour and misleading claims about imminence of Turkish accession and a far too cavalier attitude to any concerns about the difficult choices that would emerge in the event of a win. The insistence of smaller and smaller groups that only their Brexit is the real Brexit since the vote has shown the silliness of that approach.
So I generally agree the campaigns were not great for either side. I'm not sure if Vote Leave was the bigger net drain, but I always felt that Leave would win because much of the public was at best lukewarm on the EU (they have become much more positive since), not because Vote Leave were effective.
I thought Leave.eu deserved to be the lead campaign - their materials had much greater visual appeal and expressed more hope and confidence in the future. I thought 'Take back control' was a weak slogan that misread the times - in the 1980's that thrusting generation may have been swayed, but we today are scared of taking back control. I thought the NHS bus was quite good tactical move, in isolation. Otherwise, the campaign seemed confused and disparate, and too much based on individuals like Bojo and Gove and Leadsom doing their own riffs on Brexit and what it was. Logo was shite too.
The Vote Leave and Leave.eu organizations both played a significant role in leading the campaign for the UK to leave the European Union (EU) in the Brexit referendum. The Vote Leave campaign was the official pro-Brexit campaign that was designated by the UK Electoral Commission, while Leave.eu was a separate campaign group that was not officially recognized.
Each campaign had its own merits and strengths. The Vote Leave campaign was widely considered to be better organized and more professional, with a strong focus on political campaigning and voter outreach. It also had the backing of high-profile politicians, such as Boris Johnson and Michael Gove, and was able to raise significant amounts of money to support its efforts.
In contrast, the Leave.eu campaign was seen as more populist and grassroots-oriented, with a strong emphasis on social media and digital campaigning. It was also more focused on immigration and other controversial issues, and was able to tap into a more emotionally charged and anti-establishment sentiment among some voters.
Ultimately, both campaigns played a significant role in the successful Brexit vote, and the specific merits of each campaign will depend on individual opinions and perspectives.
I worked with Vote Leave and I can tell you it was fricking terrible.
I had to order, pay and deliver my own leaflets with precisely zero help from anyone.
None of my emails were answered and no-one ever bothered to call and communicate with me.
I eventually got a facsimile copy of a thank you letter for my £350 donation which arrived days before the vote itself.
Lateral thinking was the way forward. I am not a Labour voter but got hold of Labour Leave and delivered their leaflets in strong Labour wards. They were happy to supply their effective leaflets free of charge.
One way of squaring the democracy issue (which I accept is an issue, though in no way to the extent it is painted) is to see if there’s any way of reproducing something akin to the German Constitutional Court which positions itself as superior, not in terms of EU law, but in terms of EU law’s alignment with the Constitution.
The German set up doesn’t actually work quite, and is slightly messy, but perhaps there is a way for the UK to divide its law into “that realm in which EU law supreme”, and “that realm which EU law cannot touch”, for example criminal and certain aspects of constitutional law.
I’m sure smarter jurisprudential minds than mine have considered ways of squaring the circle, but maybe time to have another look.
More evidence it’s really not a grudge match. Both sides really struggling to find deeper meaning beyond just a game of footy.
Apparently this is the first time we’ve ever faced France in the knockout stages of a major tournament.
Competition with France thesedays is in the sense of rivalry, not grudges. Despite top politicians getting some benefit from escalating rhetoric from time to time we've been allies for a long time now, and the centuries of more violent competition are so far removed as to do no more than add a bit of banter to modern rivalry.
I don't support Rejoin but if the EU were really smart they'd offer Britain the same new deal that Cameron was offered, possibly with some extra safeguards on an emergency brake on free movement as well on top.
They'd probably get 70%+ voting for it and it'd settle the debate here for decades.
Thing about a club is that you don't get a better deal than the members.
It's not a better deal from an EU perspective. It's worse. FoM is there to work to mutual advantage. If there are sometimes derogations then UK residents will have the disadvantage of sometimes not having full FoM to the rest of the EU, and vice versa.
The loony end of UKIP types seemed to believe sincerely that FoM was a one way street.
Well, different countries have different things they want from the EU.
The Poles very much want freedom of movement, but care less about free trade in financial services, where the gains would be relatively small and distributed across millions of households rather than a few banks. For Brits, it was the exact opposite. So the club tries to harmonise everyone on a common policy set, but sometimes a country would rather not have some of the parts. And the coupling of trade with social policies to compensate the losers from trade has been the approach since the beginning, with CAP and structural funds and the like comprising most of the EU budget. The UK was a gainer from trade but gained little from compensating the losers, unfortunately, that's how democratic societies tend to organise political grand bargains.
The problem for Britain, I think, was more about accepting compromises at all, rather than the nature of those compromises. Ultimately there was no acceptable outcome that involved UK participation on equal terms with other countries.
I don't support Rejoin but if the EU were really smart they'd offer Britain the same new deal that Cameron was offered, possibly with some extra safeguards on an emergency brake on free movement as well on top.
They'd probably get 70%+ voting for it and it'd settle the debate here for decades.
It’s quite possible that something like that, carefully packaged to make it look as though it’s not rejoining, would be offered to incoming PM Starmer.
Rejoining the EU cannot be packaged as not rejoining the EU.
Of course it can.
We're joining the Single Market.
The discussion was 'the deal Cameron was offered'. Which included EU membership.
You can join the SM by EEA/EFTA route. And indeed it was and is the right answer. Labour will get there in the end.
I don't support Rejoin but if the EU were really smart they'd offer Britain the same new deal that Cameron was offered, possibly with some extra safeguards on an emergency brake on free movement as well on top.
They'd probably get 70%+ voting for it and it'd settle the debate here for decades.
It’s quite possible that something like that, carefully packaged to make it look as though it’s not rejoining, would be offered to incoming PM Starmer.
Rejoining the EU cannot be packaged as not rejoining the EU.
Rejoining would be the 21st century answer to the Restoration of 1660.
That bad then? The restored monarchy and ruling elite were widely despised, utterly debauched.
No they weren't, Charles II was a far more popular King than Cromwell was as Lord Protector
It's a really strange tournament, with all teams (except perhaps Morocco) seeming rather inconsistent . Against Switzerland, Portugal looked like world beaters. Today, they looked really ordinary.
I don't have a clue which versions of England and France will turn up tonight.
I wonder if that's because of the time of year and the tournament being slightly shorter than usual (I think this is right?)
Might mean that teams weren't sure how to approach it leading to more inconsistency than usual.
I don't support Rejoin but if the EU were really smart they'd offer Britain the same new deal that Cameron was offered, possibly with some extra safeguards on an emergency brake on free movement as well on top.
They'd probably get 70%+ voting for it and it'd settle the debate here for decades.
It’s quite possible that something like that, carefully packaged to make it look as though it’s not rejoining, would be offered to incoming PM Starmer.
Rejoining the EU cannot be packaged as not rejoining the EU.
Rejoining would be the 21st century answer to the Restoration of 1660.
That bad then? The restored monarchy and ruling elite were widely despised, utterly debauched.
No they weren't, Charles II was a far more popular King than Cromwell was as Lord Protector
Might well be true, though passage of time helps. Had Cromwell lived another 15 years then there might not have been a route back for old Charlie boy, as people were pretty pragmatic after 18 years of turmoil as it was.
I don't support Rejoin but if the EU were really smart they'd offer Britain the same new deal that Cameron was offered, possibly with some extra safeguards on an emergency brake on free movement as well on top.
They'd probably get 70%+ voting for it and it'd settle the debate here for decades.
It’s quite possible that something like that, carefully packaged to make it look as though it’s not rejoining, would be offered to incoming PM Starmer.
Rejoining the EU cannot be packaged as not rejoining the EU.
Rejoining would be the 21st century answer to the Restoration of 1660.
That bad then? The restored monarchy and ruling elite were widely despised, utterly debauched.
No they weren't, Charles II was a far more popular King than Cromwell was as Lord Protector
I didn't realise that YouGov surveys went that far back.
I don't support Rejoin but if the EU were really smart they'd offer Britain the same new deal that Cameron was offered, possibly with some extra safeguards on an emergency brake on free movement as well on top.
They'd probably get 70%+ voting for it and it'd settle the debate here for decades.
It’s quite possible that something like that, carefully packaged to make it look as though it’s not rejoining, would be offered to incoming PM Starmer.
Rejoining the EU cannot be packaged as not rejoining the EU.
Rejoining would be the 21st century answer to the Restoration of 1660.
That bad then? The restored monarchy and ruling elite were widely despised, utterly debauched.
No they weren't, Charles II was a far more popular King than Cromwell was as Lord Protector
Not when they fled London during the plague they weren’t. Anyway, who brought up Cromwell?
I don't support Rejoin but if the EU were really smart they'd offer Britain the same new deal that Cameron was offered, possibly with some extra safeguards on an emergency brake on free movement as well on top.
They'd probably get 70%+ voting for it and it'd settle the debate here for decades.
It’s quite possible that something like that, carefully packaged to make it look as though it’s not rejoining, would be offered to incoming PM Starmer.
Rejoining the EU cannot be packaged as not rejoining the EU.
Rejoining would be the 21st century answer to the Restoration of 1660.
That bad then? The restored monarchy and ruling elite were widely despised, utterly debauched.
No they weren't, Charles II was a far more popular King than Cromwell was as Lord Protector
Including among the large number of victims of the Royal African Society the royalists set up as soon as they got the throne back in 1660? "What a fine chap!" they used to exclaim as their children's dead bodies were thrown off the slave ships.
As someone who is utterly uninterested in football, the current diarrhoeic output about football and Leon's incontinent fapping about AI makes PB nearly unreadable.
I don't support Rejoin but if the EU were really smart they'd offer Britain the same new deal that Cameron was offered, possibly with some extra safeguards on an emergency brake on free movement as well on top.
They'd probably get 70%+ voting for it and it'd settle the debate here for decades.
It’s quite possible that something like that, carefully packaged to make it look as though it’s not rejoining, would be offered to incoming PM Starmer.
Rejoining the EU cannot be packaged as not rejoining the EU.
Rejoining would be the 21st century answer to the Restoration of 1660.
That bad then? The restored monarchy and ruling elite were widely despised, utterly debauched.
No they weren't, Charles II was a far more popular King than Cromwell was as Lord Protector
Not when they fled London during the plague they weren’t. Anyway, who brought up Cromwell?
I don't support Rejoin but if the EU were really smart they'd offer Britain the same new deal that Cameron was offered, possibly with some extra safeguards on an emergency brake on free movement as well on top.
They'd probably get 70%+ voting for it and it'd settle the debate here for decades.
It’s quite possible that something like that, carefully packaged to make it look as though it’s not rejoining, would be offered to incoming PM Starmer.
Rejoining the EU cannot be packaged as not rejoining the EU.
Rejoining would be the 21st century answer to the Restoration of 1660.
That bad then? The restored monarchy and ruling elite were widely despised, utterly debauched.
No they weren't, Charles II was a far more popular King than Cromwell was as Lord Protector
I didn't realise that YouGov surveys went that far back.
The Merry Monarch. he was a sort of proto-Boris, much loved by the red wall.
As someone who is utterly uninterested in football, the current diarrhoeic output about football and Leon's incontinent fapping about AI makes PB nearly unreadable.
I don't support Rejoin but if the EU were really smart they'd offer Britain the same new deal that Cameron was offered, possibly with some extra safeguards on an emergency brake on free movement as well on top.
They'd probably get 70%+ voting for it and it'd settle the debate here for decades.
It’s quite possible that something like that, carefully packaged to make it look as though it’s not rejoining, would be offered to incoming PM Starmer.
Rejoining the EU cannot be packaged as not rejoining the EU.
Rejoining would be the 21st century answer to the Restoration of 1660.
That bad then? The restored monarchy and ruling elite were widely despised, utterly debauched.
No they weren't, Charles II was a far more popular King than Cromwell was as Lord Protector
Not when they fled London during the plague they weren’t. Anyway, who brought up Cromwell?
Cromwell was very popular in Cornwall despite its royalism in the Civil War. Why? Because he crushed the Barbary slavers, who used to snatch Cornish lads and lasses from Cornish coastal towns
He was also popular in Ireland, where he was seen as "genocidal but fair"
It's a really strange tournament, with all teams (except perhaps Morocco) seeming rather inconsistent . Against Switzerland, Portugal looked like world beaters. Today, they looked really ordinary.
I don't have a clue which versions of England and France will turn up tonight.
England really weren't as poor against the US as people claimed. The US played tactically very well, but they still never looked like drawing.
I don't support Rejoin but if the EU were really smart they'd offer Britain the same new deal that Cameron was offered, possibly with some extra safeguards on an emergency brake on free movement as well on top.
They'd probably get 70%+ voting for it and it'd settle the debate here for decades.
It’s quite possible that something like that, carefully packaged to make it look as though it’s not rejoining, would be offered to incoming PM Starmer.
Rejoining the EU cannot be packaged as not rejoining the EU.
Rejoining would be the 21st century answer to the Restoration of 1660.
That bad then? The restored monarchy and ruling elite were widely despised, utterly debauched.
No they weren't, Charles II was a far more popular King than Cromwell was as Lord Protector
Including among the large number of victims of the Royal African Society the royalists set up as soon as they got the throne back in 1660? "What a fine chap!" they used to exclaim as their children's dead bodies were thrown off the slave ships.
Not how it worked, Britons n n n shall be slaves, not take slaves, was the rule.
I don't support Rejoin but if the EU were really smart they'd offer Britain the same new deal that Cameron was offered, possibly with some extra safeguards on an emergency brake on free movement as well on top.
They'd probably get 70%+ voting for it and it'd settle the debate here for decades.
It’s quite possible that something like that, carefully packaged to make it look as though it’s not rejoining, would be offered to incoming PM Starmer.
Rejoining the EU cannot be packaged as not rejoining the EU.
Rejoining would be the 21st century answer to the Restoration of 1660.
In that case we would end up leaving again, 28 years later.
It's a really strange tournament, with all teams (except perhaps Morocco) seeming rather inconsistent . Against Switzerland, Portugal looked like world beaters. Today, they looked really ordinary.
I don't have a clue which versions of England and France will turn up tonight.
England really weren't as poor against the US as people claimed. The US played tactically very well, but they still never looked like drawing.
I don't support Rejoin but if the EU were really smart they'd offer Britain the same new deal that Cameron was offered, possibly with some extra safeguards on an emergency brake on free movement as well on top.
They'd probably get 70%+ voting for it and it'd settle the debate here for decades.
It’s quite possible that something like that, carefully packaged to make it look as though it’s not rejoining, would be offered to incoming PM Starmer.
Rejoining the EU cannot be packaged as not rejoining the EU.
Rejoining would be the 21st century answer to the Restoration of 1660.
That bad then? The restored monarchy and ruling elite were widely despised, utterly debauched.
No they weren't, Charles II was a far more popular King than Cromwell was as Lord Protector
Not when they fled London during the plague they weren’t. Anyway, who brought up Cromwell?
Cromwell was very popular in Cornwall despite its royalism in the Civil War. Why? Because he crushed the Barbary slavers, who used to snatch Cornish lads and lasses from Cornish coastal towns
He was also popular in Ireland, where he was seen as "genocidal but fair"
One way of squaring the democracy issue (which I accept is an issue, though in no way to the extent it is painted) is to see if there’s any way of reproducing something akin to the German Constitutional Court which positions itself as superior, not in terms of EU law, but in terms of EU law’s alignment with the Constitution.
The German set up doesn’t actually work quite, and is slightly messy, but perhaps there is a way for the UK to divide its law into “that realm in which EU law supreme”, and “that realm which EU law cannot touch”, for example criminal and certain aspects of constitutional law.
I’m sure smarter jurisprudential minds than mine have considered ways of squaring the circle, but maybe time to have another look.
But that doesn't square the circle. It just reduces slightly the area of it. The circle is still covering most things and is still undemocratic.
As someone who is utterly uninterested in football, the current diarrhoeic output about football and Leon's incontinent fapping about AI makes PB nearly unreadable.
Sadly.
Take time out, study a new subject. Start with English grammar 101: Hanging nominatives.
As someone who is utterly uninterested in football, the current diarrhoeic output about football and Leon's incontinent fapping about AI makes PB nearly unreadable.
Sadly.
You could always "entertain" us with some vapid bilge about your tedious running exploits. Feel free to do that
No one is stopping you from interjecting with witty, clever, insightful remarks which turn the debate to your areas of interest
One way of squaring the democracy issue (which I accept is an issue, though in no way to the extent it is painted) is to see if there’s any way of reproducing something akin to the German Constitutional Court which positions itself as superior, not in terms of EU law, but in terms of EU law’s alignment with the Constitution.
The German set up doesn’t actually work quite, and is slightly messy, but perhaps there is a way for the UK to divide its law into “that realm in which EU law supreme”, and “that realm which EU law cannot touch”, for example criminal and certain aspects of constitutional law.
I’m sure smarter jurisprudential minds than mine have considered ways of squaring the circle, but maybe time to have another look.
That's not quite how the German constitutional court sees itself: it believes it can instruct German authorities how correctly to comply with the German basic law, even where it concerns agreed EU law such as institutions. The response of everyone else in Germany and the EU has been to ignore the German court because it has no legal authority over the EU, leaving its judges in the position of writing fan-fiction.
I don't support Rejoin but if the EU were really smart they'd offer Britain the same new deal that Cameron was offered, possibly with some extra safeguards on an emergency brake on free movement as well on top.
They'd probably get 70%+ voting for it and it'd settle the debate here for decades.
It’s quite possible that something like that, carefully packaged to make it look as though it’s not rejoining, would be offered to incoming PM Starmer.
Rejoining the EU cannot be packaged as not rejoining the EU.
Rejoining would be the 21st century answer to the Restoration of 1660.
In that case we would end up leaving again, 28 years later.
You can't ever put the genie back in the bottle.
So, it only happens if the EU fundamentally addresses some of the issues that led to Britain leaving in the first place.
I think that's beyond them, and it's probably even beyond them to contemplate it.
Comments
They'd probably get 70%+ voting for it and it'd settle the debate here for decades.
The UK would need an opt-out of the Euro, for starters.
Emmanuel Macron
@EmmanuelMacron
Officiel du gouvernement - France
Dear
@RishiSunak
, looking forward to the game tonight. If Les Bleus win (they will!), you’ll wish us luck in the semi-final… right?
https://mobile.twitter.com/RishiSunak/status/1601607055327907841
weet
Open app
See new Tweets
Conversation
Rishi Sunak
@RishiSunak
United Kingdom government official
Hopefully I won’t have to 😅
But you’ve got a deal.
Look forward to you getting behind the Three Lions in the next round
"Why is strep A surging — and how worried are scientists?
The tragic deaths of 13 children in England and an unusual rise in autumn cases have put researchers on alert.
9 December 2022"
(Latest figure is 16.)
Molecular microbiologist Claire Turner at the University of Sheffield: "There are a lot of things that seem to be a bit strange happening after the lockdowns".
Unfortunately the article in Nature doesn't answer either of the questions in its title.
My MP definitely is likely to back them.
Result - way to go Morocco! 👍😊🇲🇦🇬🇧
https://twitter.com/AWMurrison/status/1601623561453510656?cxt=HHwWgICpxZaJjrosAAAA
One other area that Cameron’s negotiation didn’t seem to address was Britain’s veto (or perhaps exclusion from) financial services legislation. Osborne warned in 2014 that Lisbon QMVs would mean that Britain could be outvoted in this area.
This contract, made and entered into on this day of December 10, 2022, by and between the Lieutenant of the Isle of Wight, acting by and through its duly appointed officers, and IanB, a homeless pensioner of the Isle of Wight, hereby witnesses as follows:
Whereas IanB has been arrested for the crime of molesting dogs, in violation of the laws of the Isle of Wight, and
Whereas IanB has been charged with animal cruelty and resisting arrest, and
Whereas IanB is currently in custody pending further legal proceedings, and
Whereas IanB is covered in dung and smells of urine, and has no friends,
Now, therefore, in consideration of the premises and the mutual covenants and agreements hereinafter set forth, the parties hereby agree as follows:
IanB shall remain in custody until such time as his legal proceedings are concluded.
IanB shall be afforded a fair and impartial trial, in accordance with the laws of the Isle of Wight.
If IanB is found guilty of the charges against him, he shall be punished according to the full extent of the law.
The Crown of the Isle of Wight shall take all necessary measures to ensure that IanB is treated humanely while in custody, despite his lack of friends and his foul smell.
This contract shall be binding upon the parties hereto and their respective successors and assigns.
IN WITNESS WHEREOF, the parties have executed this contract as of the date first above written.
[Signature]
[Seal
I think.
Why did the UK never exercise the extant brake?
Genuine questions.
PHENOM
The loony end of UKIP types seemed to believe sincerely that FoM was a one way street.
Wishful thinking
My issue is that we are then subject to rules we don’t (help) make.
The rest, yes.
Some other countries get rebates, from memory.
We're joining the Single Market.
I've bet a tenner, split between 2-0 and 3-0.
https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2018/07/04/long-read-how-to-deploy-the-emergency-brake-to-manage-migration/
Vous l'avez lu le premier fois ici.
Boufal celebrating with his mother.
Heart is on England.
Money is on France.
Urgh.
Instead, he did a quick & dirty deal by shuttle diplomacy (which, to be fair, looked quite exhausting for him) and then pulled the starting trigger as fast as he could and then rolled out full Project Fear.
I am at least 50% relieved. Avoiding the terrible drama
Do you think I should cash out my France overall winner bet?
I got on at 6.8. Can cash out at 3.75
https://twitter.com/LeeClayton_/status/1601589156819664897?cxt=HHwWgoDUhci2_rksAAAA
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/dont-children-give-strep-grandparents-28700547
"Concerned mums and dads have been swamping medical practices".
Just look at the word use :
* patronising mostly Germanic noun phrase,
* dirty verb,
* professionalised jobby Latinate noun phrase.
It's not as if the concerned ones who are bothering the professionals are on strike either! They're ignorant and very gut-motivated, rather than being wicked, is the idea.
"Health experts have warned parents to be aware of the risks of children giving Strep A to their grandparents as the infection spreads across the UK.
The Christmas holiday period could be fatal if any children with the winter bug pass it on to the elderly and vulnerable (...)"
"The risk is not huge but one to be aware of, and older people should make sure they have their flu jabs."
No swamping there, then?
The trouble is that when you write down what the UK wants, it starts to look odd.
A democratic say, including a veto, but not being involved in the politics. Frictionless access for goods, and easy movement on holidays, but the right to shut down our borders. We're not such good company that it makes sense for the EU to agree to that, especially if we are hoping not to pay into the common purse.
May's red lines led to her deal, and government backbenchers rejected that as betraying the Brexit vote. So- if the UK wants any degree of Brapprochment, what are we offering Europe to get it? All I see is people saying what the EU should offer us, and that's not the point. And some will find that humiliating.
Apparently this is the first time we’ve ever faced France in the knockout stages of a major tournament.
I think our negotiating stance was worse, largely because even during it the May government had not agreed internally its position, but the whole affair was an exercise in bitter pointlessness.
A prophecy for an rUK/Scotland negotiation.
It would be about showing some humility and magnanimity in the process and recognising the realpolitik but, sure, some would push to full Versailles it and I expect their voices would be stronger.
I don't have a clue which versions of England and France will turn up tonight.
The German set up doesn’t actually work quite, and is slightly messy, but perhaps there is a way for the UK to divide its law into “that realm in which EU law supreme”, and “that realm which EU law cannot touch”, for example criminal and certain aspects of constitutional law.
I’m sure smarter jurisprudential minds than mine have considered ways of squaring the circle, but maybe time to have another look.
The Poles very much want freedom of movement, but care less about free trade in financial services, where the gains would be relatively small and distributed across millions of households rather than a few banks. For Brits, it was the exact opposite. So the club tries to harmonise everyone on a common policy set, but sometimes a country would rather not have some of the parts. And the coupling of trade with social policies to compensate the losers from trade has been the approach since the beginning, with CAP and structural funds and the like comprising most of the EU budget. The UK was a gainer from trade but gained little from compensating the losers, unfortunately, that's how democratic societies tend to organise political grand bargains.
The problem for Britain, I think, was more about accepting compromises at all, rather than the nature of those compromises. Ultimately there was no acceptable outcome that involved UK participation on equal terms with other countries.
You can join the SM by EEA/EFTA route. And indeed it was and is the right answer. Labour will get there in the end.
Might mean that teams weren't sure how to approach it leading to more inconsistency than usual.
Doesn't mean Charles was that well liked though.
Sadly.
He was also popular in Ireland, where he was seen as "genocidal but fair"
No one is stopping you from interjecting with witty, clever, insightful remarks which turn the debate to your areas of interest
Ah, I see the problem. Soz
There are plenty of people out there who care nothing for football.
So, it only happens if the EU fundamentally addresses some of the issues that led to Britain leaving in the first place.
I think that's beyond them, and it's probably even beyond them to contemplate it.