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The Tory leadership will be decided in the nomination race – politicalbetting.com

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  • Imran Khan: Former Pakistan PM barred from running for office

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-63344059

    That shows the danger of picking unusually athletic politicians as PM.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,637
    Boris reaches 60

    40 more and he is back IMO
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,979

    A few shows of support from people I know who have reacted to the news of LT going with -oooo hope Boris comes back !- The tories need to pick him to have any chance at the next election

    Has Boris's polling and the by-election defeats earlier this year escaped your attention?

    Just because Truss performed far worse over the last 6 weeks doesn't mean Boris is a salvation for the Conservative Party.

    He's more likely to act as Gozer the Destructor.
  • murali_s said:

    Just tested positive for Covid. Symptoms like a cold but different. The body aches are truly awful.

    Sorry sir. Hope it passes very quickly and with as little hassle as possible. Its not fun but it does improve rapidly.
  • darkage said:

    Scott_xP said:

    FFS

    I can't actually believe the IEA, which did so much to incubate the ideas in the mini-budget, encourage the PM/CX to adopt them, and cheerlead for them afterwards, is genuinely now going with the line that "real libertarianism was never really tried".

    You broke it. You own it. https://twitter.com/Will_Tanner/status/1583376637416308737/photo/1

    They aren't exactly going to shut up shop though, are they? They have to come up with an explanatory narrative and this is their only option.
    Two things are simultaneously true:

    - A small state agenda hasn't been tried properly. Truss was incompetent and tried to combine tax cuts with energy subsidies.

    - A small state agenda isn't electorally popular at the moment. Most people don't think the state is too big or that tax is too high.
    I'm not ideologically opposed to a small state, but people who push it do need to explain what public spending they would get of. And the consequences.
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,767
    That tweet has been deleted, and quite right too.
  • Heathener said:

    p.s. Guido has Wallace declaring for Boris. Another example of him massaging the numbers. @TheWhiteRabbit

    Wallace declared it publicly on Sky
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,979
    IanB2 said:

    Haven't followed the conversation on here since last night. Are there an PB Johnson backers at all?

    Edit: I mean people who want him to be PM, not people who are just betting on him winning.

    Well Leon’s just come in for him…
    The first sign that he might not win.

    Meanwhile Wallace was Johnson’s seconder when he stood in 2019 - now he’s “leaning towards”. In canvassing terms that’s from definite to probable.

    Indeed most decent canvassers wouldn’t put “leaning towards” down even as probable.
    Not only that but Wallace ran his campaign in 2016 too.

    He was never going to back anyone but Boris if there was a prospect of him playing.
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    edited October 2022
    Johnson narrow betting favourite (again)
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,637

    Rachel Wearmouth
    @REWearmouth
    Hearing Laura Pidcock, once viewed as a successor to Jeremy Corbyn as leader, has quit the Labour Party. It's not clear why.

    “It’s not clear why”

    Because it’s about to win an election?
    Maybe, she and Corbyn and a whole raft of Momentum nutters could set up a "Real Labour Party" to confuse voters into reelecting Boris Johnson's Conservatives in GE2024.
    Its Centrists that do that

    Check out both times a Socialist has led Labour
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,190
    They are welcome to him.
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 3,027

    Heathener said:

    62 Rishi 58 Boris according to Guido (the latter figure somewhat suspect)

    If we do end up with Rishi winning amongst MPs but Boris going all Trumpesque and insisting on a members' ballot, which he would win, then the Conservative Party, and the country, are heading into a chasm.

    The list of declared Boris supporters contain many of the suspects who have wrecked their party and this country. Ideological nutters.

    How much more of this must we take?

    All PB Lab Centrists seem to not want a Boris comeback.

    He is still the Tories only chance of an Electoral recovery.
    Most Tory centrists don’t want him back either. Because he’s already discredited - what does it say about our politics (and MPs) when they suddenly want back a man who now faces a parliamentary investigation in the next few months?

    Markets don’t seem to be warming to the news either

  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,690

    So Ben Wallace is leaning towards backing Johnson: anyone still think Wallace is the calm, rational one?

    “Leaning towards Boris” can equally be translated as “not Rishi”. It is said Sunak wasn’t keen on providing arms to Ukraine on cost grounds and because he thought there was no point.

    No doubt he’s be ok with Mordaunt too but she seems nowhere.
  • Heathener said:

    p.s. Guido has Wallace declaring for Boris. Another example of him massaging the numbers. @TheWhiteRabbit

    Well putting him in bold certainly is!!
    Cabinet minister
  • A few shows of support from people I know who have reacted to the news of LT going with -oooo hope Boris comes back !- The tories need to pick him to have any chance at the next election

    Has Boris's polling and the by-election defeats earlier this year escaped your attention?

    Just because Truss performed far worse over the last 6 weeks doesn't mean Boris is a salvation for the Conservative Party.

    He's more likely to act as Gozer the Destructor.
    the tories need to gamble though now ,otherwise certain to lose - the only gamble left is Johnson - he may even be able to be perceived as a fresh start with the slate wiped clean (after been sin-binned) - He is actually good at enthusing so the fresh start narrative plays into his strength there
  • eekeek Posts: 28,076

    Heathener said:

    62 Rishi 58 Boris according to Guido (the latter figure somewhat suspect)

    If we do end up with Rishi winning amongst MPs but Boris going all Trumpesque and insisting on a members' ballot, which he would win, then the Conservative Party, and the country, are heading into a chasm.

    The list of declared Boris supporters contain many of the suspects who have wrecked their party and this country. Ideological nutters.

    How much more of this must we take?

    All PB Lab Centrists seem to not want a Boris comeback.

    He is still the Tories only chance of an Electoral recovery.
    What gives you that idea - I would love Bozo to return, the final destruction of the Tory party would have his name attached to it
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,853
    edited October 2022
    Sold Boris for £59 at 12.5
    Sold Rishi for £28 at 8.0
    Bought £57 of Starmer at 1.9
    Bought £5 of Coffey at 70
    £13 on Braverman and Cleverly

    I think my book is in positive equity now...

    Quite the turnaround - thank God Boris drifted to 30 and I realised latterly he might run

    Basically a straight up £200 bet on Boris vs Rishi now.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,508
    Ukraine shoots down 85% of Shahid-136 drones launched by Russia, which is a significant improvement, spokesman of the Air Force Yuriy Ihnat said.

    He also said that the German-made IRIS-T air defense system showed itself “wonderfully” while used in combat

    https://twitter.com/EuromaidanPress/status/1583431334038765573
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,979

    So Ben Wallace is leaning towards backing Johnson: anyone still think Wallace is the calm, rational one?

    I think @TOPPING got it right when he said Wallace would be another IDS as PM
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,385
    cross over
  • Boris coming back is starting to feel inevitable now. 😒

    Vox pops on Sky surprisingly positive "most want him back" according to the presenter and "yes he made mistakes but who hasn't" seems to be a common refrain.

    This all seems very bizarre.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,979

    cross over

    Good time to back Rishi, IMHO
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,690
    eristdoof said:

    If Boris returns, can he bring Queen Elizabeth back too?

    Poor old CRIII must have thought he had a bit of time to settle in before having to fulfil the most important component of his role.
  • Five council by-elections

    Lab GAIN from Con in Broadland
    Con GAIN from LibDem in Fareham
    LibDem GAIN from Con in Guildford
    Con hold in Monmouthshire
    Lab hold in St Helens

    Good Week/Bad eek Index

    Lab +124
    LDm +31
    Grn -19
    Con -131

    Adjusted Seat Value

    Lab +2.1
    LDm +0.5
    Grn -0.3
    Con -2.2

    Decent score for Cons in Fareham, but wiped out and more by negatives elsewhere, especially Broadlands.
    Positive scores for Labour everywhere, but nominally so except Broadland and St Helens
    Would have been a really decent week for the LibDems except for Portchester.
    Greens lost a seat, but ward history means it's heavily discounted, so scores are meh.
  • A few shows of support from people I know who have reacted to the news of LT going with -oooo hope Boris comes back !- The tories need to pick him to have any chance at the next election

    Has Boris's polling and the by-election defeats earlier this year escaped your attention?

    Just because Truss performed far worse over the last 6 weeks doesn't mean Boris is a salvation for the Conservative Party.

    He's more likely to act as Gozer the Destructor.
    the tories need to gamble though now ,otherwise certain to lose - the only gamble left is Johnson - he may even be able to be perceived as a fresh start with the slate wiped clean (after been sin-binned) - He is actually good at enthusing so the fresh start narrative plays into his strength there
    Can't see him a) being good at governing the country in the current economic climate and b) steering clear of trouble.

    I agree though that there is a chunk of the population who love him and therefore he will be the difference between the Tories being wiped out and just having a very bad election night.
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,767
    https://twitter.com/gsoh31/status/1583436137300779008
    Treasury ten year gilts now over 4.1, sterling down below $1.11.

    Boris is already costing us.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,508
    Very interesting thread by the founder of Bellingcat.

    https://twitter.com/EliotHiggins/status/1583380015550726144
    To build on this, my personal belief is most counter-disinformation work fails to address the fundamental issues that lead to the creation of disinformation, and generally misunderstands the source of disinformation in the first place....
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,979

    A few shows of support from people I know who have reacted to the news of LT going with -oooo hope Boris comes back !- The tories need to pick him to have any chance at the next election

    Has Boris's polling and the by-election defeats earlier this year escaped your attention?

    Just because Truss performed far worse over the last 6 weeks doesn't mean Boris is a salvation for the Conservative Party.

    He's more likely to act as Gozer the Destructor.
    the tories need to gamble though now ,otherwise certain to lose - the only gamble left is Johnson - he may even be able to be perceived as a fresh start with the slate wiped clean (after been sin-binned) - He is actually good at enthusing so the fresh start narrative plays into his strength there
    If there's something Boris isn't it's a fresh start.

    Boris becoming PM could lose the Tories office in weeks.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,772
    edited October 2022
    I see Guido has dropped putting fake supporters for Johnson into his spreadsheet!
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,190

    Heathener said:

    62 Rishi 58 Boris according to Guido (the latter figure somewhat suspect)

    If we do end up with Rishi winning amongst MPs but Boris going all Trumpesque and insisting on a members' ballot, which he would win, then the Conservative Party, and the country, are heading into a chasm.

    The list of declared Boris supporters contain many of the suspects who have wrecked their party and this country. Ideological nutters.

    How much more of this must we take?

    All PB Lab Centrists seem to not want a Boris comeback.

    He is still the Tories only chance of an Electoral recovery.
    He really isn't BJO. Sunak and Mordaunt have the credibility to take the toxicity out of the Tories. Johnson accentuates them as an utter joke. I accept that as a Johnsonian Conservative you don't want a New Labour redux, but are you sure this man delivers what he promises?

    He might beat Putin in Ukraine and seal a great Churchillian victory, but that can't be a positive
    way forward for our nation.
  • Time to lay Johnson and back #Ready4Rish!
  • Heathener said:

    p.s. Guido has Wallace declaring for Boris. Another example of him massaging the numbers. @TheWhiteRabbit

    Well putting him in bold certainly is!!
    Cabinet minister
    No longer in bold. I wonder if all Cabinet members will get that treatment
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,772
    edited October 2022

    A few shows of support from people I know who have reacted to the news of LT going with -oooo hope Boris comes back !- The tories need to pick him to have any chance at the next election

    Has Boris's polling and the by-election defeats earlier this year escaped your attention?

    Just because Truss performed far worse over the last 6 weeks doesn't mean Boris is a salvation for the Conservative Party.

    He's more likely to act as Gozer the Destructor.
    the tories need to gamble though now ,otherwise certain to lose - the only gamble left is Johnson - he may even be able to be perceived as a fresh start with the slate wiped clean (after been sin-binned) - He is actually good at enthusing so the fresh start narrative plays into his strength there
    After a losing run at the casino, they’re pawning the wedding ring and putting the proceeds all on 23 red?

    That’s really going to end well.

    Every big gamble has a downside. Too few are thinking through how that would look.
  • A few shows of support from people I know who have reacted to the news of LT going with -oooo hope Boris comes back !- The tories need to pick him to have any chance at the next election

    Has Boris's polling and the by-election defeats earlier this year escaped your attention?

    Just because Truss performed far worse over the last 6 weeks doesn't mean Boris is a salvation for the Conservative Party.

    He's more likely to act as Gozer the Destructor.
    the tories need to gamble though now ,otherwise certain to lose - the only gamble left is Johnson - he may even be able to be perceived as a fresh start with the slate wiped clean (after been sin-binned) - He is actually good at enthusing so the fresh start narrative plays into his strength there
    If there's something Boris isn't it's a fresh start.

    Boris becoming PM could lose the Tories office in weeks.
    How? The Tories have a majority?

    If you mean because the Tories are divided, then do you think those divisions are magically going to go away if Rishi wins?
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,695

    A few shows of support from people I know who have reacted to the news of LT going with -oooo hope Boris comes back !- The tories need to pick him to have any chance at the next election

    Has Boris's polling and the by-election defeats earlier this year escaped your attention?

    Just because Truss performed far worse over the last 6 weeks doesn't mean Boris is a salvation for the Conservative Party.

    He's more likely to act as Gozer the Destructor.
    the tories need to gamble though now ,otherwise certain to lose - the only gamble left is Johnson - he may even be able to be perceived as a fresh start with the slate wiped clean (after been sin-binned) - He is actually good at enthusing so the fresh start narrative plays into his strength there
    If there's something Boris isn't it's a fresh start.

    Boris becoming PM could lose the Tories office in weeks.
    How? The Tories have a majority?

    If you mean because the Tories are divided, then do you think those divisions are magically going to go away if Rishi wins?
    I think they could in desperation consolidate around Rishi. They sure as hell are not going to around Boris.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 10,696
    moonshine said:

    darkage said:

    Anecdotes from colleagues

    - At least Boris has a mandate and we won't need a GE
    - economic damage is worse then a few parties
    - Truss has been subject to unfair abuse.

    I think the first two points are valid, not sure about the last one but clearly some people have that view.

    My old uni friends are aghast and incredulous at the prospect of a Boris return, much in the way that they have been aghast at everything that has happened in British politics since 2016. There isn't much in the way of useful insights from them.

    Boris gets given a pass by quite a few I know on the basis that he demonstrably hates Putin and is very pro Ukraine. Especially but only so from this in marriages with Eastern Europeans. Quite hard to predict how all this plays out really.

    If we'd stayed in the EU, there'd be more marriages to Eastern Europeans and more votes for Boris!
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,415
    edited October 2022
    Nigelb said:

    Very interesting thread by the founder of Bellingcat.

    https://twitter.com/EliotHiggins/status/1583380015550726144
    To build on this, my personal belief is most counter-disinformation work fails to address the fundamental issues that lead to the creation of disinformation, and generally misunderstands the source of disinformation in the first place....

    "And these people don't become part of these communities to create and spread disinformation, they do it because they believe (often correctly) that they're being deceived, so seek to correct the record."

    "The problem is their own biases, fuelled by traumatic moral injury, means any conclusion that supports the perceived position of those responsible for that injury is unacceptable, so alternative, increasing absurd, answers must be correct."

    I remember an academic that Obama hired to look at this and I remember her talking about how all the talk of Russia simply providing loads of propaganda backing Trump was nonsense.

    That in reality it had all been going on for a long time, they had joined or setup loads and loads of social media groups across the political and ethnic divides and people were voluntary getting involved. The reason, because they already had a cause / a side / a campaign they wanted to get on board with, be it black Christian groups (who thought that combination of racism and anti-Christian sentiment was strong in the US) to predominantly white middle class yoga mums (a community that turned into huge anti-vaxxers).

    The trick being played was to reinforce the biases and keep stretching the narrative. Most of the time the Russian state actors were just engaging in these discussions, amplifying certain things being brought up, and then from time to time slipping in a story (sometimes true, sometimes false, sometimes somewhere inbetween) with deliberate ploy to outrage.
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    edited October 2022
    It’s looking, to me, increasingly likely the King is going to be dragged into this mess.

    Can whoever wins, command a majority?

    Remember: Charles is not his mother.

    Interesting times.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,190

    Boris coming back is starting to feel inevitable now. 😒

    Vox pops on Sky surprisingly positive "most want him back" according to the presenter and "yes he made mistakes but who hasn't" seems to be a common refrain.

    This all seems very bizarre.

    I do think there has been a bit of TV media ramping of Johnson because he is box office. The BBC were very excitable at the news yesterday. They can edit all the "Boris is a dick" interviews out and just feature HYUFD.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,853

    https://twitter.com/gsoh31/status/1583436137300779008
    Treasury ten year gilts now over 4.1, sterling down below $1.11.

    Boris is already costing us.

    Maybe he'll run a dry fiscal package just with more charisma than part 2 of Truss premiership ?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,853
    Pulpstar said:

    https://twitter.com/gsoh31/status/1583436137300779008
    Treasury ten year gilts now over 4.1, sterling down below $1.11.

    Boris is already costing us.

    Maybe he'll run a dry fiscal package just with more charisma than part 2 of Truss premiership ?
    I think the energy package will be more generous under Boria at the cost of slightly higher gilt yields.
    That'll be the main fiscal change
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,690

    moonshine said:

    darkage said:

    Anecdotes from colleagues

    - At least Boris has a mandate and we won't need a GE
    - economic damage is worse then a few parties
    - Truss has been subject to unfair abuse.

    I think the first two points are valid, not sure about the last one but clearly some people have that view.

    My old uni friends are aghast and incredulous at the prospect of a Boris return, much in the way that they have been aghast at everything that has happened in British politics since 2016. There isn't much in the way of useful insights from them.

    Boris gets given a pass by quite a few I know on the basis that he demonstrably hates Putin and is very pro Ukraine. Especially but only so from this in marriages with Eastern Europeans. Quite hard to predict how all this plays out really.

    If we'd stayed in the EU, there'd be more marriages to Eastern Europeans and more votes
    for Boris!
    In my experience, Brexit was the cause of a lot of a UK-EU marriages.

  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,706

    A few shows of support from people I know who have reacted to the news of LT going with -oooo hope Boris comes back !- The tories need to pick him to have any chance at the next election

    Has Boris's polling and the by-election defeats earlier this year escaped your attention?

    Just because Truss performed far worse over the last 6 weeks doesn't mean Boris is a salvation for the Conservative Party.

    He's more likely to act as Gozer the Destructor.
    the tories need to gamble though now ,otherwise certain to lose - the only gamble left is Johnson - he may even be able to be perceived as a fresh start with the slate wiped clean (after been sin-binned) - He is actually good at enthusing so the fresh start narrative plays into his strength there
    I don't think wiping the slate clean works because even if eveybody mysteriously decided to forgive him for making them miss friends' funerals while he was at a party or whatever, there's a whole stream of preexisting scandal that hasn't yet broken.

    So at best you'd have a couple of days of good headlines, then we'd be back with the daily sleaze.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,508

    Nigelb said:

    Very interesting thread by the founder of Bellingcat.

    https://twitter.com/EliotHiggins/status/1583380015550726144
    To build on this, my personal belief is most counter-disinformation work fails to address the fundamental issues that lead to the creation of disinformation, and generally misunderstands the source of disinformation in the first place....

    "And these people don't become part of these communities to create and spread disinformation, they do it because they believe (often correctly) that they're being deceived, so seek to correct the record."

    "The problem is their own biases, fuelled by traumatic moral injury, means any conclusion that supports the perceived position of those responsible for that injury is unacceptable, so alternative, increasing absurd, answers must be correct."

    I remember an academic that Obama hired to look at this and I remember her talking about how all the talk of Russia simply providing loads of propaganda backing Trump was nonsense.

    That in reality it had all been going on for a long time, they had joined or setup loads and loads of social media groups across the political and ethnic divides and people were voluntary getting involved. The reason, because they already had a cause / a side / a campaign they wanted to get on board with.

    The trick being played was to reinforce the biases and keep stretching the narrative. Most of the time the Russian state actors were just engaging in these discussions, amplifying certain things being brought up, and then from time to time slipping in a story (sometimes true, sometimes false, sometimes somewhere inbetween) with deliberate ploy to outrage.
    Indeed - but his real point is that Russia is irrelevant if you're trying to actually address the problem.
    The only way to build trust is not to lie.
  • TheValiantTheValiant Posts: 1,873
    So, turning to a possible GE.

    If Boris 'wins' on Monday and is reappointed Tuesday, someone asked about the date of the next GE.

    The problem is, like in 2019, we're almost at a point at which a 2022 GE can be ruled out.
    Since the 25 WORKING day rule (up from 17) was introduced about 15 years ago, it's very hard to get a GE done quickly.

    If Boris came back on Tuesday 25th and called an election that day, the earliest the election could be held would (probably) be Thursday 1st December (I think 30th November is a bank holiday in Scotland?)

    That's not as late into December as the 2019 election but its still in December.
    If instead the members do get involved and a winner (Boris) isn't announced till Friday 28th and appointed on Monday 31st October and dissolves Parliament then, we're looking at Wednesday 7th December (so Thursday 8th December).

    If the winner DOES decide to go for a GE (I seriously, seriously doubt ANY winner will) we're already into a December GE no matter what.

    I suspect it won't happen and therefore the earliest they might consider is next May 2023.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,979

    A few shows of support from people I know who have reacted to the news of LT going with -oooo hope Boris comes back !- The tories need to pick him to have any chance at the next election

    Has Boris's polling and the by-election defeats earlier this year escaped your attention?

    Just because Truss performed far worse over the last 6 weeks doesn't mean Boris is a salvation for the Conservative Party.

    He's more likely to act as Gozer the Destructor.
    the tories need to gamble though now ,otherwise certain to lose - the only gamble left is Johnson - he may even be able to be perceived as a fresh start with the slate wiped clean (after been sin-binned) - He is actually good at enthusing so the fresh start narrative plays into his strength there
    If there's something Boris isn't it's a fresh start.

    Boris becoming PM could lose the Tories office in weeks.
    How? The Tories have a majority?

    If you mean because the Tories are divided, then do you think those divisions are magically going to go away if Rishi wins?
    Lots of Tories will quit the whip and refuse to serve under Boris if he wins.

    Just look at how many (even ERG) ministers quite en mass last time rather than serve under him. Why do you think that opinion was so universal?

    Everyone has got to understand he is kryptonite to the Conservative party.
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,060

    Heathener said:

    62 Rishi 58 Boris according to Guido (the latter figure somewhat suspect)

    If we do end up with Rishi winning amongst MPs but Boris going all Trumpesque and insisting on a members' ballot, which he would win, then the Conservative Party, and the country, are heading into a chasm.

    The list of declared Boris supporters contain many of the suspects who have wrecked their party and this country. Ideological nutters.

    How much more of this must we take?

    All PB Lab Centrists seem to not want a Boris comeback.

    He is still the Tories only chance of an Electoral recovery.
    Most Tory centrists don’t want him back either. Because he’s already discredited - what does it say about our politics (and MPs) when they suddenly want back a man who now faces a parliamentary investigation in the next few months?

    Markets don’t seem to be warming to the news either

    I'm a Lab Centrist and I don't want Boris back, for exactly these reasons.

    British Politics has really become a laughing stock internationally.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,508
    IanB2 said:

    A few shows of support from people I know who have reacted to the news of LT going with -oooo hope Boris comes back !- The tories need to pick him to have any chance at the next election

    Has Boris's polling and the by-election defeats earlier this year escaped your attention?

    Just because Truss performed far worse over the last 6 weeks doesn't mean Boris is a salvation for the Conservative Party.

    He's more likely to act as Gozer the Destructor.
    the tories need to gamble though now ,otherwise certain to lose - the only gamble left is Johnson - he may even be able to be perceived as a fresh start with the slate wiped clean (after been sin-binned) - He is actually good at enthusing so the fresh start narrative plays into his strength there
    After a losing run at the casino, they’re pawning the wedding ring and putting the proceeds all on 23 red?

    That’s really going to end well.

    Every big gamble has a downside. Too few are thinking through how that would look.
    "Need to gamble" is an absolutely contemptible way to think about appointing a new PM, in every respect.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,415
    edited October 2022
    Met Police have arrested a man with a knife next to the Houses of Parliament

    Tory leadership election getting very feisty.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,508

    A few shows of support from people I know who have reacted to the news of LT going with -oooo hope Boris comes back !- The tories need to pick him to have any chance at the next election

    Has Boris's polling and the by-election defeats earlier this year escaped your attention?

    Just because Truss performed far worse over the last 6 weeks doesn't mean Boris is a salvation for the Conservative Party.

    He's more likely to act as Gozer the Destructor.
    the tories need to gamble though now ,otherwise certain to lose - the only gamble left is Johnson - he may even be able to be perceived as a fresh start with the slate wiped clean (after been sin-binned) - He is actually good at enthusing so the fresh start narrative plays into his strength there
    I don't think wiping the slate clean works because even if eveybody mysteriously decided to forgive him for making them miss friends' funerals while he was at a party or whatever, there's a whole stream of preexisting scandal that hasn't yet broken.

    So at best you'd have a couple of days of good headlines, then we'd be back with the daily sleaze.
    How is the "slate wiped clean" when the offender has never admitted the offence ?
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,652
    edited October 2022
    Guido's spreadsheet shows unnamed MPs who are Party Officers (so can't publicly declare their support) supporting candidates as follows:

    Boris - 17
    Penny - 2
    Rishi - 1

    Two questions:

    1) How many MPs are Party Officers in total?

    2) If Boris has the support of the vast majority of Party Officers, why did they make the rule that 100 nominations are needed which may prevent Boris standing?
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    edited October 2022
    Boris out to 2.4/5
    Penny in a bit, to 11s
    Rishi a touch over evens.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,751
    UPDATE ON MY VIEW

    Boris obvs gets the numbers and then loses to Rishi in the members' vote.

    That 43% will grow because it was a sensible 43% and enough of the 57% will have been frightened enough by the Truss experiment to want someone vaguely sane.
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,793
    edited October 2022
    Nigelb said:

    A few shows of support from people I know who have reacted to the news of LT going with -oooo hope Boris comes back !- The tories need to pick him to have any chance at the next election

    Has Boris's polling and the by-election defeats earlier this year escaped your attention?

    Just because Truss performed far worse over the last 6 weeks doesn't mean Boris is a salvation for the Conservative Party.

    He's more likely to act as Gozer the Destructor.
    the tories need to gamble though now ,otherwise certain to lose - the only gamble left is Johnson - he may even be able to be perceived as a fresh start with the slate wiped clean (after been sin-binned) - He is actually good at enthusing so the fresh start narrative plays into his strength there
    I don't think wiping the slate clean works because even if eveybody mysteriously decided to forgive him for making them miss friends' funerals while he was at a party or whatever, there's a whole stream of preexisting scandal that hasn't yet broken.

    So at best you'd have a couple of days of good headlines, then we'd be back with the daily sleaze.
    How is the "slate wiped clean" when the offender has never admitted the offence ?
    its not nice legalities or protocol that count its the great british public's perception

    FWIW I dont want Boris back whilst the situation in Ukraine is still highly dangerous for the UK - He will only put more fuel on the fire there with his Churchill like impersonation. Rishi (will def lose the next election for the tories) will at least be more sceptical of the need to supply more weapons and the whole situation should then be much easier to de-escalate
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,508

    Nigelb said:

    A few shows of support from people I know who have reacted to the news of LT going with -oooo hope Boris comes back !- The tories need to pick him to have any chance at the next election

    Has Boris's polling and the by-election defeats earlier this year escaped your attention?

    Just because Truss performed far worse over the last 6 weeks doesn't mean Boris is a salvation for the Conservative Party.

    He's more likely to act as Gozer the Destructor.
    the tories need to gamble though now ,otherwise certain to lose - the only gamble left is Johnson - he may even be able to be perceived as a fresh start with the slate wiped clean (after been sin-binned) - He is actually good at enthusing so the fresh start narrative plays into his strength there
    I don't think wiping the slate clean works because even if eveybody mysteriously decided to forgive him for making them miss friends' funerals while he was at a party or whatever, there's a whole stream of preexisting scandal that hasn't yet broken.

    So at best you'd have a couple of days of good headlines, then we'd be back with the daily sleaze.
    How is the "slate wiped clean" when the offender has never admitted the offence ?
    its not nice legalities or protocol that count its the great british public's perception
    "Leave means leave".
    Isn't that Boris's motto ?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,979
    MikeL said:

    Guido's spreadsheet shows unnamed MPs who are Party Officers (so can't publicly declare their support) supporting candidates as follows:

    Boris - 17
    Penny - 2
    Rishi - 1

    Two questions:

    1) How many MPs are Party Officers in total?

    2) If Boris has the support of the vast majority of Party Officers, why did they make the rule that 100 nominations are needed which may prevent Boris standing?

    Guido is bullshitting
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    edited October 2022
    TOPPING said:

    UPDATE ON MY VIEW

    Boris obvs gets the numbers and then loses to Rishi in the members' vote.

    That 43% will grow because it was a sensible 43% and enough of the 57% will have been frightened enough by the Truss experiment to want someone vaguely sane.

    Thing is, the Truss brigade like higher interest rates. Not sure they were particularly frightened by the market reaction to trussonomics, at all.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,979
    TOPPING said:

    UPDATE ON MY VIEW

    Boris obvs gets the numbers and then loses to Rishi in the members' vote.

    That 43% will grow because it was a sensible 43% and enough of the 57% will have been frightened enough by the Truss experiment to want someone vaguely sane.

    If true, then Boris will probably go down to 1.4 or even lower at some point and therefore be a brilliant lay

    (no sniggering at the back)
  • A few shows of support from people I know who have reacted to the news of LT going with -oooo hope Boris comes back !- The tories need to pick him to have any chance at the next election

    Has Boris's polling and the by-election defeats earlier this year escaped your attention?

    Just because Truss performed far worse over the last 6 weeks doesn't mean Boris is a salvation for the Conservative Party.

    He's more likely to act as Gozer the Destructor.
    the tories need to gamble though now ,otherwise certain to lose - the only gamble left is Johnson - he may even be able to be perceived as a fresh start with the slate wiped clean (after been sin-binned) - He is actually good at enthusing so the fresh start narrative plays into his strength there
    If there's something Boris isn't it's a fresh start.

    Boris becoming PM could lose the Tories office in weeks.
    How? The Tories have a majority?

    If you mean because the Tories are divided, then do you think those divisions are magically going to go away if Rishi wins?
    Lots of Tories will quit the whip and refuse to serve under Boris if he wins.

    Just look at how many (even ERG) ministers quite en mass last time rather than serve under him. Why do you think that opinion was so universal?

    Everyone has got to understand he is kryptonite to the Conservative party.
    And you don't think Sunak is kryptonite to others in the Conservative Party?

    If you want a unity candidate then pick someone like Penny who can appeal to different sides of the divide. If the party doubles-down on Sunak versus Boris then there's no good answer there that either will be able to, or deserves to, unite the party and win.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,751
    ping said:

    TOPPING said:

    UPDATE ON MY VIEW

    Boris obvs gets the numbers and then loses to Rishi in the members' vote.

    That 43% will grow because it was a sensible 43% and enough of the 57% will have been frightened enough by the Truss experiment to want someone vaguely sane.

    Thing is, the Truss brigade like higher interest rates. Not sure they were particularly frightened by it, at all.
    That is true and I'm not predicting a wipeout for Boris. It will be close but the membership has tried its experiment once and enough of them will be wary of doing it again. Even if only for the lolz (as we all would on here).
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    Boris 6/4
    Sunak evens
    Penny 11s

    Very volatile.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,979
    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    https://twitter.com/gsoh31/status/1583436137300779008
    Treasury ten year gilts now over 4.1, sterling down below $1.11.

    Boris is already costing us.

    Maybe he'll run a dry fiscal package just with more charisma than part 2 of Truss premiership ?
    I think the energy package will be more generous under Boria at the cost of slightly higher gilt yields.
    That'll be the main fiscal change
    Sunak's biggest weakness is that he thinks too technocrat and not enough political.

    One would hope it's a challenge he can address and not just when he's in a panic.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,255

    So, turning to a possible GE.

    If Boris 'wins' on Monday and is reappointed Tuesday, someone asked about the date of the next GE.

    The problem is, like in 2019, we're almost at a point at which a 2022 GE can be ruled out.
    Since the 25 WORKING day rule (up from 17) was introduced about 15 years ago, it's very hard to get a GE done quickly.

    If Boris came back on Tuesday 25th and called an election that day, the earliest the election could be held would (probably) be Thursday 1st December (I think 30th November is a bank holiday in Scotland?)

    That's not as late into December as the 2019 election but its still in December.
    If instead the members do get involved and a winner (Boris) isn't announced till Friday 28th and appointed on Monday 31st October and dissolves Parliament then, we're looking at Wednesday 7th December (so Thursday 8th December).

    If the winner DOES decide to go for a GE (I seriously, seriously doubt ANY winner will) we're already into a December GE no matter what.

    I suspect it won't happen and therefore the earliest they might consider is next May 2023.

    The scenario is not that Boris goes for an election, but that those resigning the whip force a GE. Would they want to do so before a budget was on the statute book, seeing as a motivation would be to end the instability. I guess not.

    So, assuming Boris let Hunt go ahead and have a budget on Nov 2, plus time to get all passed, a successful VONC may not be possible until mid-November. And would Starmer then wish to time it a bit better?

    So, perhaps a Jan/Feb election in such a scenario?
  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 4,993
    tlg86 said:

    What happens if no one gets 100 votes? Has this been answered?

    Nico Hulkenberg gets to step in as a reserve.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,508

    tlg86 said:

    What happens if no one gets 100 votes? Has this been answered?

    Nico Hulkenberg gets to step in as a reserve.
    Would do a better job than most if not all of them.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,772
    edited October 2022
    kjh said:

    Boris coming back is starting to feel inevitable now. 😒

    Vox pops on Sky surprisingly positive "most want him back" according to the presenter and "yes he made mistakes but who hasn't" seems to be a common refrain.

    This all seems very bizarre.

    I've made lots of mistakes in my life but none on the scale of Boris and I have never lied about them.
    But if you had, you might try to get away with saying the same? ;)
  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,780

    A few shows of support from people I know who have reacted to the news of LT going with -oooo hope Boris comes back !- The tories need to pick him to have any chance at the next election

    Has Boris's polling and the by-election defeats earlier this year escaped your attention?

    Just because Truss performed far worse over the last 6 weeks doesn't mean Boris is a salvation for the Conservative Party.

    He's more likely to act as Gozer the Destructor.
    the tories need to gamble though now ,otherwise certain to lose - the only gamble left is Johnson - he may even be able to be perceived as a fresh start with the slate wiped clean (after been sin-binned) - He is actually good at enthusing so the fresh start narrative plays into his strength there
    If there's something Boris isn't it's a fresh start.

    Boris becoming PM could lose the Tories office in weeks.
    How? The Tories have a majority?

    If you mean because the Tories are divided, then do you think those divisions are magically going to go away if Rishi wins?
    Lots of Tories will quit the whip and refuse to serve under Boris if he wins.

    Just look at how many (even ERG) ministers quite en mass last time rather than serve under him. Why do you think that opinion was so universal?

    Everyone has got to understand he is kryptonite to the Conservative party.
    And you don't think Sunak is kryptonite to others in the Conservative Party?

    If you want a unity candidate then pick someone like Penny who can appeal to different sides of the divide. If the party doubles-down on Sunak versus Boris then there's no good answer there that either will be able to, or deserves to, unite the party and win.
    If Boris keeps Hunt as Chancellor, does that soothe the Sunak wing?
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,644
    ping said:

    TOPPING said:

    UPDATE ON MY VIEW

    Boris obvs gets the numbers and then loses to Rishi in the members' vote.

    That 43% will grow because it was a sensible 43% and enough of the 57% will have been frightened enough by the Truss experiment to want someone vaguely sane.

    Thing is, the Truss brigade like higher interest rates. Not sure they were particularly frightened by the market reaction to trussonomics, at all.
    The Truss brigade also included circa all of the Boris loyalists, and the whole problem with Truss began when she diverged from Boris, so there is more than enough excuse material out there to stroke the id and vote against Sunak.
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    Boris 2.8
    Rishi 1.92
    Penny 10
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,979

    A few shows of support from people I know who have reacted to the news of LT going with -oooo hope Boris comes back !- The tories need to pick him to have any chance at the next election

    Has Boris's polling and the by-election defeats earlier this year escaped your attention?

    Just because Truss performed far worse over the last 6 weeks doesn't mean Boris is a salvation for the Conservative Party.

    He's more likely to act as Gozer the Destructor.
    the tories need to gamble though now ,otherwise certain to lose - the only gamble left is Johnson - he may even be able to be perceived as a fresh start with the slate wiped clean (after been sin-binned) - He is actually good at enthusing so the fresh start narrative plays into his strength there
    If there's something Boris isn't it's a fresh start.

    Boris becoming PM could lose the Tories office in weeks.
    How? The Tories have a majority?

    If you mean because the Tories are divided, then do you think those divisions are magically going to go away if Rishi wins?
    Lots of Tories will quit the whip and refuse to serve under Boris if he wins.

    Just look at how many (even ERG) ministers quite en mass last time rather than serve under him. Why do you think that opinion was so universal?

    Everyone has got to understand he is kryptonite to the Conservative party.
    And you don't think Sunak is kryptonite to others in the Conservative Party?

    If you want a unity candidate then pick someone like Penny who can appeal to different sides of the divide. If the party doubles-down on Sunak versus Boris then there's no good answer there that either will be able to, or deserves to, unite the party and win.
    No, I don't. I expect Sunak to look to include all wings of the party.

    It's only the ultras who'd have a problem with him (i still don't know why given the guy campaigned for Leave) and he will have to give jobs to the fruitcakes and it's a greater courtesy than Boris or Truss would grant the other way round.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,979
    ping said:

    TOPPING said:

    UPDATE ON MY VIEW

    Boris obvs gets the numbers and then loses to Rishi in the members' vote.

    That 43% will grow because it was a sensible 43% and enough of the 57% will have been frightened enough by the Truss experiment to want someone vaguely sane.

    Thing is, the Truss brigade like higher interest rates. Not sure they were particularly frightened by the market reaction to trussonomics, at all.
    Yes, that's partly true, and what helped do for them.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    The consensus amongst my circle, including people who normally vote Tory or don't discuss politics in public, is the Conservatives are out of road. They should call an election and let Labour have a go at government.

    This nonsense is not playing well with normal people.
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,652
    35 MPs resigning the whip feels like a high number.

    Surely more likely to be in the 10-20 range.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,853
    ping said:

    Boris 2.8
    Rishi 1.92
    Penny 10

    Bozza back into 6-4. And out to 2.6

    Boing boing
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,772
    MikeL said:

    Guido's spreadsheet shows unnamed MPs who are Party Officers (so can't publicly declare their support) supporting candidates as follows:

    Boris - 17
    Penny - 2
    Rishi - 1

    Two questions:

    1) How many MPs are Party Officers in total?

    2) If Boris has the support of the vast majority of Party Officers, why did they make the rule that 100 nominations are needed which may prevent Boris standing?

    He’s stopped doing that now. Guido was making up the entries and putting one or two against the others just to try and make it look more credible.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,780

    A few shows of support from people I know who have reacted to the news of LT going with -oooo hope Boris comes back !- The tories need to pick him to have any chance at the next election

    Has Boris's polling and the by-election defeats earlier this year escaped your attention?

    Just because Truss performed far worse over the last 6 weeks doesn't mean Boris is a salvation for the Conservative Party.

    He's more likely to act as Gozer the Destructor.
    the tories need to gamble though now ,otherwise certain to lose - the only gamble left is Johnson - he may even be able to be perceived as a fresh start with the slate wiped clean (after been sin-binned) - He is actually good at enthusing so the fresh start narrative plays into his strength there
    If there's something Boris isn't it's a fresh start.

    Boris becoming PM could lose the Tories office in weeks.
    How? The Tories have a majority?

    If you mean because the Tories are divided, then do you think those divisions are magically going to go away if Rishi wins?
    Lots of Tories will quit the whip and refuse to serve under Boris if he wins.

    Just look at how many (even ERG) ministers quite en mass last time rather than serve under him. Why do you think that opinion was so universal?

    Everyone has got to understand he is kryptonite to the Conservative party.
    And you don't think Sunak is kryptonite to others in the Conservative Party?

    If you want a unity candidate then pick someone like Penny who can appeal to different sides of the divide. If the party doubles-down on Sunak versus Boris then there's no good answer there that either will be able to, or deserves to, unite the party and win.
    No, I don't. I expect Sunak to look to include all wings of the party.

    It's only the ultras who'd have a problem with him (i still don't know why given the guy campaigned for Leave) and he will have to give jobs to the fruitcakes and it's a greater courtesy than Boris or Truss would grant the other way round.
    Breaking the NI manifesto pledge is a big part of it.
  • Boris coming back is starting to feel inevitable now. 😒

    Vox pops on Sky surprisingly positive "most want him back" according to the presenter and "yes he made mistakes but who hasn't" seems to be a common refrain.

    This all seems very bizarre.

    Of course lots of people want him back. He tells low information voters what they desperately want to hear, and persuades just enough of them that it's true and he's definitely the man to make it happen. No austerity. Levelling up. Banishing the doomsters and gloomsters. Britain is great. Rule Britannia!

    They don't want the reality that 12 years of the Tories have brought us. Well, they're going to get it anyway.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,706
    edited October 2022

    A few shows of support from people I know who have reacted to the news of LT going with -oooo hope Boris comes back !- The tories need to pick him to have any chance at the next election

    Has Boris's polling and the by-election defeats earlier this year escaped your attention?

    Just because Truss performed far worse over the last 6 weeks doesn't mean Boris is a salvation for the Conservative Party.

    He's more likely to act as Gozer the Destructor.
    the tories need to gamble though now ,otherwise certain to lose - the only gamble left is Johnson - he may even be able to be perceived as a fresh start with the slate wiped clean (after been sin-binned) - He is actually good at enthusing so the fresh start narrative plays into his strength there
    If there's something Boris isn't it's a fresh start.

    Boris becoming PM could lose the Tories office in weeks.
    How? The Tories have a majority?

    If you mean because the Tories are divided, then do you think those divisions are magically going to go away if Rishi wins?
    Lots of Tories will quit the whip and refuse to serve under Boris if he wins.

    Just look at how many (even ERG) ministers quite en mass last time rather than serve under him. Why do you think that opinion was so universal?

    Everyone has got to understand he is kryptonite to the Conservative party.
    And you don't think Sunak is kryptonite to others in the Conservative Party?

    If you want a unity candidate then pick someone like Penny who can appeal to different sides of the divide. If the party doubles-down on Sunak versus Boris then there's no good answer there that either will be able to, or deserves to, unite the party and win.
    The trouble is that a lot of core Johnson supporting MPs appear to be careerist idiots who wouldn't be employed by anyone else. Do you want Rees-Mogg in a great office of state?
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,442
    edited October 2022
    IanB2 said:

    MikeL said:

    Guido's spreadsheet shows unnamed MPs who are Party Officers (so can't publicly declare their support) supporting candidates as follows:

    Boris - 17
    Penny - 2
    Rishi - 1

    Two questions:

    1) How many MPs are Party Officers in total?

    2) If Boris has the support of the vast majority of Party Officers, why did they make the rule that 100 nominations are needed which may prevent Boris standing?

    He’s stopped doing that now. Guido was making up the entries and putting one or two against the others just to try and make it look more credible.
    They're still there (in green)

    There are 16 whips, 5 party chairs (inc Brady). Nici has publicly declared support, even as a whip.
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    edited October 2022
    Pulpstar said:

    ping said:

    Boris 2.8
    Rishi 1.92
    Penny 10

    Bozza back into 6-4. And out to 2.6

    Boing boing
    £2m matched.

    Wouldn’t be surprised if it hit £5m+ by settlement.

    A real betting slugfest. The type of market that betfair was designed for.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,780

    Boris coming back is starting to feel inevitable now. 😒

    Vox pops on Sky surprisingly positive "most want him back" according to the presenter and "yes he made mistakes but who hasn't" seems to be a common refrain.

    This all seems very bizarre.

    Of course lots of people want him back. He tells low information voters what they desperately want to hear, and persuades just enough of them that it's true and he's definitely the man to make it happen. No austerity. Levelling up. Banishing the doomsters and gloomsters. Britain is great. Rule Britannia!

    They don't want the reality that 12 years of the Tories have brought us. Well, they're going to get it anyway.
    I do wish people would stop sneering at people who voted the wrong way as "low information", it's a really ugly look.
  • ping said:

    Pulpstar said:

    ping said:

    Boris 2.8
    Rishi 1.92
    Penny 10

    Bozza back into 6-4. And out to 2.6

    Boing boing
    £2m matched.

    Wouldn’t be surprised if it hit £5m+ by settlement.

    A real betting slugfest.
    I'm really wondering about this. Sunak's declared support is almost (perhaps completely) from his own support, and there are I think only 3 Sunak backers previously to have gone BoJo.

    Surely these are not surprising developments.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,695
    IanB2 said:

    kjh said:

    Boris coming back is starting to feel inevitable now. 😒

    Vox pops on Sky surprisingly positive "most want him back" according to the presenter and "yes he made mistakes but who hasn't" seems to be a common refrain.

    This all seems very bizarre.

    I've made lots of mistakes in my life but none on the scale of Boris and I have never lied about them.
    But if you had, you might try to get away with saying the same? ;)
    Whoops, didn't think of that.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 21,965
    Driver said:

    A few shows of support from people I know who have reacted to the news of LT going with -oooo hope Boris comes back !- The tories need to pick him to have any chance at the next election

    Has Boris's polling and the by-election defeats earlier this year escaped your attention?

    Just because Truss performed far worse over the last 6 weeks doesn't mean Boris is a salvation for the Conservative Party.

    He's more likely to act as Gozer the Destructor.
    the tories need to gamble though now ,otherwise certain to lose - the only gamble left is Johnson - he may even be able to be perceived as a fresh start with the slate wiped clean (after been sin-binned) - He is actually good at enthusing so the fresh start narrative plays into his strength there
    If there's something Boris isn't it's a fresh start.

    Boris becoming PM could lose the Tories office in weeks.
    How? The Tories have a majority?

    If you mean because the Tories are divided, then do you think those divisions are magically going to go away if Rishi wins?
    Lots of Tories will quit the whip and refuse to serve under Boris if he wins.

    Just look at how many (even ERG) ministers quite en mass last time rather than serve under him. Why do you think that opinion was so universal?

    Everyone has got to understand he is kryptonite to the Conservative party.
    And you don't think Sunak is kryptonite to others in the Conservative Party?

    If you want a unity candidate then pick someone like Penny who can appeal to different sides of the divide. If the party doubles-down on Sunak versus Boris then there's no good answer there that either will be able to, or deserves to, unite the party and win.
    If Boris keeps Hunt as Chancellor, does that soothe the Sunak wing?
    If Hunt had anything about him, he would resign the moment Bozo is declared PM.

    (Big "if" there.)
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,343

    A few shows of support from people I know who have reacted to the news of LT going with -oooo hope Boris comes back !- The tories need to pick him to have any chance at the next election

    Has Boris's polling and the by-election defeats earlier this year escaped your attention?

    Just because Truss performed far worse over the last 6 weeks doesn't mean Boris is a salvation for the Conservative Party.

    He's more likely to act as Gozer the Destructor.
    the tories need to gamble though now ,otherwise certain to lose - the only gamble left is Johnson - he may even be able to be perceived as a fresh start with the slate wiped clean (after been sin-binned) - He is actually good at enthusing so the fresh start narrative plays into his strength there
    If there's something Boris isn't it's a fresh start.

    Boris becoming PM could lose the Tories office in weeks.
    How? The Tories have a majority?

    If you mean because the Tories are divided, then do you think those divisions are magically going to go away if Rishi wins?
    Lots of Tories will quit the whip and refuse to serve under Boris if he wins.

    Just look at how many (even ERG) ministers quite en mass last time rather than serve under him. Why do you think that opinion was so universal?

    Everyone has got to understand he is kryptonite to the Conservative party.
    And you don't think Sunak is kryptonite to others in the Conservative Party?

    If you want a unity candidate then pick someone like Penny who can appeal to different sides of the divide. If the party doubles-down on Sunak versus Boris then there's no good answer there that either will be able to, or deserves to, unite the party and win.
    The trouble is that a lot of core Johnson supporting MPs appear to be careerist idiots who wouldn't be employed by anyone else. Do you want Rees-Mogg in a great office of state?
    You could make a horror show of a Cabinet of those who have declared for Boris already....
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 21,825
    edited October 2022

    A few shows of support from people I know who have reacted to the news of LT going with -oooo hope Boris comes back !- The tories need to pick him to have any chance at the next election

    Has Boris's polling and the by-election defeats earlier this year escaped your attention?

    Just because Truss performed far worse over the last 6 weeks doesn't mean Boris is a salvation for the Conservative Party.

    He's more likely to act as Gozer the Destructor.
    the tories need to gamble though now ,otherwise certain to lose - the only gamble left is Johnson - he may even be able to be perceived as a fresh start with the slate wiped clean (after been sin-binned) - He is actually good at enthusing so the fresh start narrative plays into his strength there
    If there's something Boris isn't it's a fresh start.

    Boris becoming PM could lose the Tories office in weeks.
    How? The Tories have a majority?

    If you mean because the Tories are divided, then do you think those divisions are magically going to go away if Rishi wins?
    Lots of Tories will quit the whip and refuse to serve under Boris if he wins.

    Just look at how many (even ERG) ministers quite en mass last time rather than serve under him. Why do you think that opinion was so universal?

    Everyone has got to understand he is kryptonite to the Conservative party.
    And you don't think Sunak is kryptonite to others in the Conservative Party?

    If you want a unity candidate then pick someone like Penny who can appeal to different sides of the divide. If the party doubles-down on Sunak versus Boris then there's no good answer there that either will be able to, or deserves to, unite the party and win.
    No, I don't. I expect Sunak to look to include all wings of the party.

    It's only the ultras who'd have a problem with him (i still don't know why given the guy campaigned for Leave) and he will have to give jobs to the fruitcakes and it's a greater courtesy than Boris or Truss would grant the other way round.
    My objection to Sunak has nothing to do with Leave or Remain.

    Its that he put up National Insurance, while wanting to cut Income Tax by 4p.

    Anyone who does that isn't fit to be PM.
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,006
    edited October 2022

    Labour MP Chris Matheson has quit over allegations of "serious sexual misconduct" which is said to have taken place on a "sexually-motivated" trip to Gibraltar.

    The Independent Expert Panel - an independent body on MPs' conduct - recommended the MP for the City of Chester be suspended for four weeks.

    The Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards upheld two allegations of sexual misconduct against Mr Matheson by a former member of his staff.

    He allegedly invited her on a private trip abroad and "the invitation was sexually motivated, unwanted, and had placed the complainant under pressure and intimidated her", according to the report.

    In December 2019 he invited her on the "private trip which he asked her to keep secret, even from her close family" which the inquiry concluded was "sexually motivated".

    In the end the trip did not go ahead.

    During a work event outside Parliament, he also "linked arms with her; made personal comments about her appearance while looking at her suggestively; made her hold his hand as they left and insisted on accompanying her to her bus stop - and once there invited her back to his flat, kissed her twice on the forehead and attempted to kiss her on the mouth.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/10/21/labour-mp-chris-matheson-quits-sexually-motivated-trip-gibraltar/

    Up to the bold bit, I was left thinking (putting aside a married man trying to instigate an affair) seems a bit harsh and some of it very open to interpretation i.e. what is "looking at somebody suggestively"...then it gets weird.

    An MP resigns for that (rightly maybe, time will tell) and we are about to make Johnson PM again. You honestly couldn't make it up.
  • northern_monkeynorthern_monkey Posts: 1,639
    edited October 2022
    Driver said:

    Boris coming back is starting to feel inevitable now. 😒

    Vox pops on Sky surprisingly positive "most want him back" according to the presenter and "yes he made mistakes but who hasn't" seems to be a common refrain.

    This all seems very bizarre.

    Of course lots of people want him back. He tells low information voters what they desperately want to hear, and persuades just enough of them that it's true and he's definitely the man to make it happen. No austerity. Levelling up. Banishing the doomsters and gloomsters. Britain is great. Rule Britannia!

    They don't want the reality that 12 years of the Tories have brought us. Well, they're going to get it anyway.
    I do wish people would stop sneering at people who voted the wrong way as "low information", it's a really ugly look.
    Most people are low information voters. I'm not sneering. Low information voters cut across all classes, incomes, educational levels, intelligence. Most people pay no attention at all. That's why Johnson has been so effective. He shamelessly spins webs of disinformation that anyone who pays the slightest attention can see if just a load of tosh. But to those who don't pay much attention he sounds very plausible. Trumpian. He gets just enough people to vote to make themselves poorer, and not even realise it. Cheer it, even.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,150
    FF43 said:

    The consensus amongst my circle, including people who normally vote Tory or don't discuss politics in public, is the Conservatives are out of road. They should call an election and let Labour have a go at government.

    This nonsense is not playing well with normal people.

    I think one way or another we're heading for an election and a Labour government before too much longer. :)
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860
    stjohn said:

    I fear a repeat of the situation so passionately described in Charles Walker's speech about Truss supporters, now applying to Boris. The talentless Tory MPs who backed Truss in the hope and expectation of preferment may largely transfer their support to Boris and get him across the 100 supporter threshold.

    This country deserves so much better than this self-serving shower of nobodies.

    It does like like the exact same thing he was bemoaning.
  • Lis Truss to trouser (or maybe skirt) £115K a year as a ex-pm- nice !
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,343
    Pro_Rata said:

    So, turning to a possible GE.

    If Boris 'wins' on Monday and is reappointed Tuesday, someone asked about the date of the next GE.

    The problem is, like in 2019, we're almost at a point at which a 2022 GE can be ruled out.
    Since the 25 WORKING day rule (up from 17) was introduced about 15 years ago, it's very hard to get a GE done quickly.

    If Boris came back on Tuesday 25th and called an election that day, the earliest the election could be held would (probably) be Thursday 1st December (I think 30th November is a bank holiday in Scotland?)

    That's not as late into December as the 2019 election but its still in December.
    If instead the members do get involved and a winner (Boris) isn't announced till Friday 28th and appointed on Monday 31st October and dissolves Parliament then, we're looking at Wednesday 7th December (so Thursday 8th December).

    If the winner DOES decide to go for a GE (I seriously, seriously doubt ANY winner will) we're already into a December GE no matter what.

    I suspect it won't happen and therefore the earliest they might consider is next May 2023.

    The scenario is not that Boris goes for an election, but that those resigning the whip force a GE. Would they want to do so before a budget was on the statute book, seeing as a motivation would be to end the instability. I guess not.

    So, assuming Boris let Hunt go ahead and have a budget on Nov 2, plus time to get all passed, a successful VONC may not be possible until mid-November. And would Starmer then wish to time it a bit better?

    So, perhaps a Jan/Feb election in such a scenario?
    Sorry, been out getting jabbed and stuff. Has Hunt indicated yet whether he would serve under Boris if offered the job of Chancellor?
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 5,909

    Driver said:

    A few shows of support from people I know who have reacted to the news of LT going with -oooo hope Boris comes back !- The tories need to pick him to have any chance at the next election

    Has Boris's polling and the by-election defeats earlier this year escaped your attention?

    Just because Truss performed far worse over the last 6 weeks doesn't mean Boris is a salvation for the Conservative Party.

    He's more likely to act as Gozer the Destructor.
    the tories need to gamble though now ,otherwise certain to lose - the only gamble left is Johnson - he may even be able to be perceived as a fresh start with the slate wiped clean (after been sin-binned) - He is actually good at enthusing so the fresh start narrative plays into his strength there
    If there's something Boris isn't it's a fresh start.

    Boris becoming PM could lose the Tories office in weeks.
    How? The Tories have a majority?

    If you mean because the Tories are divided, then do you think those divisions are magically going to go away if Rishi wins?
    Lots of Tories will quit the whip and refuse to serve under Boris if he wins.

    Just look at how many (even ERG) ministers quite en mass last time rather than serve under him. Why do you think that opinion was so universal?

    Everyone has got to understand he is kryptonite to the Conservative party.
    And you don't think Sunak is kryptonite to others in the Conservative Party?

    If you want a unity candidate then pick someone like Penny who can appeal to different sides of the divide. If the party doubles-down on Sunak versus Boris then there's no good answer there that either will be able to, or deserves to, unite the party and win.
    If Boris keeps Hunt as Chancellor, does that soothe the Sunak wing?
    If Hunt had anything about him, he would resign the moment Bozo is declared PM.

    (Big "if" there.)
    He was willing to work for Truss for the sake of his country…
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,690
    GIN1138 said:

    FF43 said:

    The consensus amongst my circle, including people who normally vote Tory or don't discuss politics in public, is the Conservatives are out of road. They should call an election and let Labour have a go at government.

    This nonsense is not playing well with normal people.

    I think one way or another we're heading for an election and a Labour government before too much longer. :)
    I’m not saying it’s likely. But have you considered the possibility that Boris keeps the show on the road until next spring, gets a bounce from helping beat Putin and then bags another majority with the new boundaries helping him across the line?
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