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The ambulance service is becoming a huge problem for Tories – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 8,489
edited August 28 in General
The ambulance service is becoming a huge problem for Tories – politicalbetting.com

Health Sec Steve Barclay confronted by angry member of public over beleaguered ambulance service: “Twelve years. You’ve done bugger all about it”. pic.twitter.com/9O5x1yUcU2

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • BalrogBalrog Posts: 196
    Not that I think Truss is any good.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 17,283
    Immediately pre-hustings:-

    Betfair next prime minister
    1.07 Liz Truss 93%
    14 Rishi Sunak 7%

    Next Conservative leader
    1.07 Liz Truss 93%
    14.5 Rishi Sunak 7%
  • BalrogBalrog Posts: 196
    But I do wonder whether taking some money from Health for social services might not unclog things a bit and be a better use of money looking at things from a system view
  • BalrogBalrog Posts: 196
    If a bit of money transferred to social care reduces bed blocking so patients can be transferred out of ambulances quickly, then perhaps response times could get better
  • BalrogBalrog Posts: 196
    Is anyone else commenting...
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 2,654
    FPT

    New @IpsosUK polling today asked if the public trust the following to reduce the cost of living

    Trust / do no trust
    Starmer 39% / 51%
    Sunak 36% / 55%
    Johnson 35% / 62%
    Truss 28% / 61%
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 17,283
    Not just ambulances, police as well. Following Olivia's murder this week:-

    Emily Spurrell, the Merseyside police and crime commissioner, called for greater resources from central government if police are to curb the current crime spree.

    “We are still 456 officers short of where we were in 2010, and that’s a big resource for somewhere like Merseyside,” she said. We could use some of those officers to help tackle some of these issues that we’re facing.”

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/aug/23/its-crazy-and-it-needs-to-stop-shock-and-anger-in-liverpool-after-week-of-violence

    Maybe these issues will come up in tonight's hustings.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 31,973
    When I had meningitis in 2016, the ambulancemen coming to pick me up had, that day, previously done jobs in Swaffham, Thetford, King's Lynn and then Cambourne (Cambridge).

    IMO that's an indication of a service with problems, given the distances involved.

    When I broke my arm in the very northwest of Scotland (Cape Wrath) the year before, a doctor saw me quickly, despite having to drive a large distance to reach me. But the nearest A&E was sic hours away in Inverness, and rather than get an ambulance, my dad and sister drove up from the Midlands to pick me and my car up.

    But it's a good idea if the drivers can actually fit in the blooming things:
    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/jun/18/ambulance-staff-unable-to-drive-new-vehicles-because-of-height-and-body-shape
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 2,876
    edited August 25
    I wonder when the Government are going to realise that a lot of people are getting annoyed with them?

    I also wonder if they are hoping and praying that things are not as bad, hence "spin"
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 2,876
    Balrog said:

    Is anyone else commenting...

    I think everyone is watching The One Show...
  • stodgestodge Posts: 10,962
    I didn't think Mr Barclay seemed too impressed with the audacity of a mere voter daring to hold him to account for the past 12 years.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 7,786
    To a rough approximation, the UK isn't a rich it would like to be.

    Given the increased demands of pensioner numbers, that makes the rest of the country poorer, and the only question is how to distribute the pain. Public services have had roughly as much fat trimmed as is possible.

    Good thing we haven't done anything else to reduce our wealth generating potential.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 9,853
    edited August 25
    Balrog said:

    Is anyone else commenting...

    We can't, you and Gandalf aren't letting anyone else post.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 55,093
    The one thing we can be certain of about Truss is that she is a bold gambler. It is why she stands on the threshold of Downing Street. For all the risks, an early general election may be the only way open to her to turn her weak mandate into a strong one.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/aug/25/liz-truss-wins-election-tory-prime-minister
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 17,283
    Rishi is pointlessly running through his life story again.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 8,447

    Rishi is pointlessly running through his life story again.

    He has to revise the rough bits.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 15,917

    Not just ambulances, police as well. Following Olivia's murder this week:-

    Emily Spurrell, the Merseyside police and crime commissioner, called for greater resources from central government if police are to curb the current crime spree.

    “We are still 456 officers short of where we were in 2010, and that’s a big resource for somewhere like Merseyside,” she said. We could use some of those officers to help tackle some of these issues that we’re facing.”

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/aug/23/its-crazy-and-it-needs-to-stop-shock-and-anger-in-liverpool-after-week-of-violence

    Maybe these issues will come up in tonight's hustings.

    The governments policy of we can't afford pay rises and don't believe in interfering on energy markets so are doing tax cuts, strikes and widespread service collapse instead is err, very brave.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 10,962
    I've not seen much comment (specifically) on the continuing rice in natural gas prices. Up to £6.44 per therm today which is frightening compared with where it was pre the Ukraine conflict.

    This seems to this observer to be what we should be concerned about rather than oil which seems to be settling in the $90 - $100 per barrel range at least for now.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 17,283
    Speaking of ambulances, paramedic is now a graduate profession. Who knew?

    How to become a paramedic
    There are two routes to become a paramedic—in service development from technician or application to an East Midlands university offering a HCPC-approved Paramedic Science programme through UCAS.

    The in-service route typically requires individuals to have employment as a Student Technician and Qualified Ambulance Technician before completing further education as a Paramedic Apprentice. This route is often referred to as ‘earn while you learn’.

    However, aspiring paramedics can apply to undertake a BSc (Hons) in Paramedic Science at a wide range of universities across the UK via UCAS and can apply to EMAS upon graduation from university.

    https://www.emas.nhs.uk/join-the-team/ambulance-service-roles/paramedic/
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 15,917

    Speaking of ambulances, paramedic is now a graduate profession. Who knew?

    How to become a paramedic
    There are two routes to become a paramedic—in service development from technician or application to an East Midlands university offering a HCPC-approved Paramedic Science programme through UCAS.

    The in-service route typically requires individuals to have employment as a Student Technician and Qualified Ambulance Technician before completing further education as a Paramedic Apprentice. This route is often referred to as ‘earn while you learn’.

    However, aspiring paramedics can apply to undertake a BSc (Hons) in Paramedic Science at a wide range of universities across the UK via UCAS and can apply to EMAS upon graduation from university.

    https://www.emas.nhs.uk/join-the-team/ambulance-service-roles/paramedic/

    In the big cities at least perhaps you could have quite different types of ambulance driver from glorified taxi driver through to mobile ER doctor types.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 17,283

    The one thing we can be certain of about Truss is that she is a bold gambler. It is why she stands on the threshold of Downing Street. For all the risks, an early general election may be the only way open to her to turn her weak mandate into a strong one.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/aug/25/liz-truss-wins-election-tory-prime-minister

    The government has an overall majority so screw the mandate, especially if Truss claims to be Continuity Boris inheriting the 2019 mandate.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 2,551
    Truss will just blame previous administrations and pretend she had nothing to do with it. There seem to be enough low information thick voters to believe this guff .
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 104,437
    edited August 25
    My ex was nicknamed the ambulance.

    She made a lot of noise to let you know she was [that’s enough -ed.]
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 55,093
    Part of the reason it is happening is the hospitals are full of bed blockers who cannot be released because the social care system is in total and utter crisis.

    For family reasons I am now on the frontline of dealing with the care worker crisis and it is a bloody disgrace.

    Both main parties have failed on this one for years and years.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 10,962
    nico679 said:

    Truss will just blame previous administrations and pretend she had nothing to do with it. There seem to be enough low information thick voters to believe this guff .

    I mean, we're as bad as Italy used to be - we had the long years of the Coalition followed by the Cameron Majority, the May Majority, the May Minority, the Johnson Minority, the Johnson Majority and now the Truss Majority so this would be our sixth Government in seven years.

    There are some people (I'm told) who don't change their socks that frequently.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 23,623
    No, no, no, this is all wrong!

    The only thing people are concerned about right now is boat migrants. And woke.

    @Leon says so, so it must be true.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 17,283

    Speaking of ambulances, paramedic is now a graduate profession. Who knew?

    How to become a paramedic
    There are two routes to become a paramedic—in service development from technician or application to an East Midlands university offering a HCPC-approved Paramedic Science programme through UCAS.

    The in-service route typically requires individuals to have employment as a Student Technician and Qualified Ambulance Technician before completing further education as a Paramedic Apprentice. This route is often referred to as ‘earn while you learn’.

    However, aspiring paramedics can apply to undertake a BSc (Hons) in Paramedic Science at a wide range of universities across the UK via UCAS and can apply to EMAS upon graduation from university.

    https://www.emas.nhs.uk/join-the-team/ambulance-service-roles/paramedic/

    In the big cities at least perhaps you could have quite different types of ambulance driver from glorified taxi driver through to mobile ER doctor types.
    We sort of do, with traditional ambulances operating alongside cars, bikes and air ambulances, augmented by local volunteer doctors.
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 6,864
    edited August 25
    Health is devolved -- so the obvious question is are things different in Scotland and Wales?

    In Wales, the answer is no. There have been a number of well publicised incidents of patients waiting many hours for an ambulance.

    My guess is it is probably a consequence of the difficulty of seeing a GP, so people go to A&E, so ambulances can't decant patients and they are stuck waiting outside A&E.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 23,623
    stodge said:

    I've not seen much comment (specifically) on the continuing rice in natural gas prices. Up to £6.44 per therm today which is frightening compared with where it was pre the Ukraine conflict.

    This seems to this observer to be what we should be concerned about rather than oil which seems to be settling in the $90 - $100 per barrel range at least for now.

    How many kWh in a therm again? Google convert has a US and a UK therm, neither of which makes sense to me at £6.44 per therm (presumably wholesale?)
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 42,932
    stodge said:

    nico679 said:

    Truss will just blame previous administrations and pretend she had nothing to do with it. There seem to be enough low information thick voters to believe this guff .

    I mean, we're as bad as Italy used to be - we had the long years of the Coalition followed by the Cameron Majority, the May Majority, the May Minority, the Johnson Minority, the Johnson Majority and now the Truss Majority so this would be our sixth Government in seven years.
    All we need now is for the Europeans to impose a technocratic government on us and the transformation will be complete.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 8,447
    "Getting things done", "Getting on with the job"; are I think are the most annoying phrases in politics.

    Actual achievement seems quite dissociated from these phrases.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 15,917

    Speaking of ambulances, paramedic is now a graduate profession. Who knew?

    How to become a paramedic
    There are two routes to become a paramedic—in service development from technician or application to an East Midlands university offering a HCPC-approved Paramedic Science programme through UCAS.

    The in-service route typically requires individuals to have employment as a Student Technician and Qualified Ambulance Technician before completing further education as a Paramedic Apprentice. This route is often referred to as ‘earn while you learn’.

    However, aspiring paramedics can apply to undertake a BSc (Hons) in Paramedic Science at a wide range of universities across the UK via UCAS and can apply to EMAS upon graduation from university.

    https://www.emas.nhs.uk/join-the-team/ambulance-service-roles/paramedic/

    In the big cities at least perhaps you could have quite different types of ambulance driver from glorified taxi driver through to mobile ER doctor types.
    We sort of do, with traditional ambulances operating alongside cars, bikes and air ambulances, augmented by local volunteer doctors.
    But then why do the glorified taxi drivers need a degree? And why volunteer doctors, pay them! Same with air ambulances, they should be paid for by govt not charities.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 42,932
    Omnium said:

    "Getting things done", "Getting on with the job"; are I think are the most annoying phrases in politics.

    Actual achievement seems quite dissociated from these phrases.

    At one point I believe Gordon Brown said, "I'm getting on with the job of getting on with the job."
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    My ex was nicknamed the ambulance.

    She made a lot of noise to let you know she was [that’s enough -ed.]

    Full of heroin, and open to all comers provided they were seriously sick or damaged
  • stodgestodge Posts: 10,962

    stodge said:

    I've not seen much comment (specifically) on the continuing rice in natural gas prices. Up to £6.44 per therm today which is frightening compared with where it was pre the Ukraine conflict.

    This seems to this observer to be what we should be concerned about rather than oil which seems to be settling in the $90 - $100 per barrel range at least for now.

    How many kWh in a therm again? Google convert has a US and a UK therm, neither of which makes sense to me at £6.44 per therm (presumably wholesale?)
    There seem to be 29.3 kilowatt hours in a therm so that would come out to 22p per kilowatt hour.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 8,447

    Omnium said:

    "Getting things done", "Getting on with the job"; are I think are the most annoying phrases in politics.

    Actual achievement seems quite dissociated from these phrases.

    At one point I believe Gordon Brown said, "I'm getting on with the job of getting on with the job."
    A feather then in my cap, but of course a rancid puddle around my ankles with the Brown legacy.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 24,282
    FPT.
    My Grandfather was a native Irish speaker.
    No one could remember him ever speaking it in England, mind.
    When the dementia kicked in he spoke nothing else. You could talk to him in English, and be understood, but he'd reply in Irish.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 19,490
    System said:

    The ambulance service is becoming a huge problem for Tories – politicalbetting.com

    Health Sec Steve Barclay confronted by angry member of public over beleaguered ambulance service: “Twelve years. You’ve done bugger all about it”. pic.twitter.com/9O5x1yUcU2

    Read the full story here

    Past form suggests we'll soon find out the man is a lifelong Labour activist.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 23,623
    stodge said:

    stodge said:

    I've not seen much comment (specifically) on the continuing rice in natural gas prices. Up to £6.44 per therm today which is frightening compared with where it was pre the Ukraine conflict.

    This seems to this observer to be what we should be concerned about rather than oil which seems to be settling in the $90 - $100 per barrel range at least for now.

    How many kWh in a therm again? Google convert has a US and a UK therm, neither of which makes sense to me at £6.44 per therm (presumably wholesale?)
    There seem to be 29.3 kilowatt hours in a therm so that would come out to 22p per kilowatt hour.
    Cheers, that makes (scary) sense. Google convert says 1 British thermal unit = 0.000293071 kWh (!)
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 55,032

    Health is devolved -- so the obvious question is are things different in Scotland and Wales?

    In Wales, the answer is no. There have been a number of well publicised incidents of patients waiting many hours for an ambulance.

    My guess is it is probably a consequence of the difficulty of seeing a GP, so people go to A&E, so ambulances can't decant patients and they are stuck waiting outside A&E.

    North Wales is every bit as bad as anywhere in the UK
  • pingping Posts: 3,177
    Oh the times, they are a’changin’

    “Markets bet UK interest rates will hit 4% by May“

    https://www.ft.com/content/d5a5031e-1a55-45ac-8569-eef807f528b8
  • TimSTimS Posts: 2,720
    edited August 25

    Health is devolved -- so the obvious question is are things different in Scotland and Wales?

    In Wales, the answer is no. There have been a number of well publicised incidents of patients waiting many hours for an ambulance.

    My guess is it is probably a consequence of the difficulty of seeing a GP, so people go to A&E, so ambulances can't decant patients and they are stuck waiting outside A&E.

    Particularly out of hours and/or when it’s relatively urgent. There’s simply no middle ground between booking a GP days in advance and turning up to A&E.

    Always seemed to me that a well equipped 24 hour travelling doctor with common prescription medicines and basic equipment on hand could divert a lot of people away from A&E.

    Either that, or make A&E a true hub where everyone goes and there is ample primary care, GPs, nurses, pharmacists etc all on hand in the one place.

    But I know healthcare is a lot more complicated than that am I am probably proposing things that have been tried and failed multiple times.

  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 23,623
    edited August 25

    System said:

    The ambulance service is becoming a huge problem for Tories – politicalbetting.com

    Health Sec Steve Barclay confronted by angry member of public over beleaguered ambulance service: “Twelve years. You’ve done bugger all about it”. pic.twitter.com/9O5x1yUcU2

    Read the full story here

    Past form suggests we'll soon find out the man is a lifelong Labour activist.
    If you watch the clip you'll soon find out the man was a woman.

    If the woman turns out to be a lifelong Labour activist will that diminish the issue with the ambulance service? Or her point that the Tories have had 12 years to sort it out?
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 27,573
    There are two major issues here that need resolving.

    The first is the problems with A&E which mean we have ambulances waiting for hours with patients inside who can't even get in through the door of the hospital. This is clearly a major issue, perhaps the main issue and has got much worse more recently. .

    But the other one is the fact that so many A&E departments at local hospitals (where there still are local hospitals) have shut. In Newark and Grantham both A&E departments have been downgraded or shut completely. Ambulances cannot take you there if you have any serious conditions (heart attacks, strokes, anything to do with the digestive system) or if you are a minor. They are also shut at night. Instead they have to take the patient to Queens at Nottingham or Kingsmill at Sutton in Ashfield (for Newark), or Boston or Lincoln for Grantham. These are trips of at least half an hour even under blue light conditions. That means even if the patient is immediately offloaded into A&E the ambulances are at least an hour in the round trips. Often more.

    The NHS trusts say this centralisation is a good thing because it allows a concentration of specialisation but that doesn't take into account the extra ambulance resources that are needed to make this work. And in fact at both Newark and Grantham the number of ambulances have reduced not increased.

    The system is broken and someone needs to look at it and, in the short term at least, reverse the closures of so many A&Es.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 19,490
    edited August 25
    Omnium said:

    Omnium said:

    "Getting things done", "Getting on with the job"; are I think are the most annoying phrases in politics.

    Actual achievement seems quite dissociated from these phrases.

    At one point I believe Gordon Brown said, "I'm getting on with the job of getting on with the job."
    A feather then in my cap, but of course a rancid puddle around my ankles with the Brown legacy.
    There's a whole lexicon of political weasel words that sound impressive whilst guaranteeing no actual change for the better. 'Tough on', 'tackling', 'take action on' are some of the most irritating.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 27,573

    System said:

    The ambulance service is becoming a huge problem for Tories – politicalbetting.com

    Health Sec Steve Barclay confronted by angry member of public over beleaguered ambulance service: “Twelve years. You’ve done bugger all about it”. pic.twitter.com/9O5x1yUcU2

    Read the full story here

    Past form suggests we'll soon find out the man is a lifelong Labour activist.
    What Steve Barclay?
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 19,490

    System said:

    The ambulance service is becoming a huge problem for Tories – politicalbetting.com

    Health Sec Steve Barclay confronted by angry member of public over beleaguered ambulance service: “Twelve years. You’ve done bugger all about it”. pic.twitter.com/9O5x1yUcU2

    Read the full story here

    Past form suggests we'll soon find out the man is a lifelong Labour activist.
    If you watch the clip you'll soon find out the man was a woman.

    If the woman turns out to be a lifelong Labour activist will that diminish the issue with the ambulance service? Or her point that the Tories have had 12 years to sort it out?
    Yes.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 17,283

    System said:

    The ambulance service is becoming a huge problem for Tories – politicalbetting.com

    Health Sec Steve Barclay confronted by angry member of public over beleaguered ambulance service: “Twelve years. You’ve done bugger all about it”. pic.twitter.com/9O5x1yUcU2

    Read the full story here

    Past form suggests we'll soon find out the man is a lifelong Labour activist.
    Watch the clip FFS. It's a woman. And Steve Barclay is the Health Secretary.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 8,447

    Omnium said:

    Omnium said:

    "Getting things done", "Getting on with the job"; are I think are the most annoying phrases in politics.

    Actual achievement seems quite dissociated from these phrases.

    At one point I believe Gordon Brown said, "I'm getting on with the job of getting on with the job."
    A feather then in my cap, but of course a rancid puddle around my ankles with the Brown legacy.
    There's a whole lexicon of political weasel words that sound impressive whilst guaranteeing no actual change for the better. 'Tough on', 'tackling', 'take action on' are some of the most irritating.
    Quite so.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 16,536
    edited August 25
    The GP service doesn’t work.
    It’s effective closure during lockdowns (and reduced service even to this day) has increased reliance on over-stretched A&E resources, including ambulance teams.

    If you started from scratch to figure out a primary care system that doesn’t just gatekeep but works to deliver preventative health measures, you would not come up with the current GP system.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 42,597

    System said:

    The ambulance service is becoming a huge problem for Tories – politicalbetting.com

    Health Sec Steve Barclay confronted by angry member of public over beleaguered ambulance service: “Twelve years. You’ve done bugger all about it”. pic.twitter.com/9O5x1yUcU2

    Read the full story here

    Past form suggests we'll soon find out the man is a lifelong Labour activist.
    If you watch the clip you'll soon find out the man was a woman.

    If the woman turns out to be a lifelong Labour activist will that diminish the issue with the ambulance service? Or her point that the Tories have had 12 years to sort it out?
    Yes.
    No it wouldn't it.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 16,536
    I would add that Rishi’s £10 charge for GP no-shows is a great example of his total lack of acumen.

    You can see how he got there…it kind of makes sense…on Planet Vulcan.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 16,536

    Omnium said:

    Omnium said:

    "Getting things done", "Getting on with the job"; are I think are the most annoying phrases in politics.

    Actual achievement seems quite dissociated from these phrases.

    At one point I believe Gordon Brown said, "I'm getting on with the job of getting on with the job."
    A feather then in my cap, but of course a rancid puddle around my ankles with the Brown legacy.
    There's a whole lexicon of political weasel words that sound impressive whilst guaranteeing no actual change for the better. 'Tough on', 'tackling', 'take action on' are some of the most irritating.
    Boris went through umpteen relaunches to “get a grip” but never really showed any interest in doing so.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 21,493

    System said:

    The ambulance service is becoming a huge problem for Tories – politicalbetting.com

    Health Sec Steve Barclay confronted by angry member of public over beleaguered ambulance service: “Twelve years. You’ve done bugger all about it”. pic.twitter.com/9O5x1yUcU2

    Read the full story here

    Past form suggests we'll soon find out the man is a lifelong Labour activist.
    And therefore can be completely ignored. There are no problems in the English NHS and Steve Barclay should be commended. Huzzah!
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 27,910

    System said:

    The ambulance service is becoming a huge problem for Tories – politicalbetting.com

    Health Sec Steve Barclay confronted by angry member of public over beleaguered ambulance service: “Twelve years. You’ve done bugger all about it”. pic.twitter.com/9O5x1yUcU2

    Read the full story here

    Past form suggests we'll soon find out the man is a lifelong Labour activist.
    And therefore can be completely ignored. There are no problems in the English NHS and Steve Barclay should be commended. Huzzah!
    Labour activists aren't allowed to have relatives in NHS hospitals, it seems. They don't count.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 10,438

    The GP service doesn’t work.
    It’s effective closure during lockdowns (and reduced service even to this day) has increased reliance on over-stretched A&E resources, including ambulance teams.

    If you started from scratch to figure out a primary care system that doesn’t just gatekeep but works to deliver preventative health measures, you would not come up with the current GP system.

    Is that the view from New York? Some GP services are fine, thanks. I had an issue earlier this year. E-consult followed by phone call followed by examination. Same day. Resolved. Happy.
    GPs did not effectively close during lockdowns, you just couldn’t physically attend without appointments.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 48,368
    So:

    @dyedwoolie and @MISTY are bulls on Trump 2024.

    Let me start by saying that I agree that 2024 should be a good year for the Republicans. And that a candidate with Trumpian views, but who isn't Trump (like DeSantis) would likely do extremely well.

    But it is worth remembering that in 2020, Trump meaningfully underperformed his Senatorial candidates, trailing them (on average) by just under 4%.

    That's pretty huge.

    This time around, Trump endorsed candidates are really struggling in the polls compared to candidates who are more... independent.

    Pennsylvania should at least be close. Ohio - with a partisan lean of R+15 - really shouldn't.

    Georgia and Arizona should be win backs for the Republicans. And we shouldn't even be talking about incumbent Republican Senators like Johnson potentially being in trouble.

    By contrast, Republican incumbents in - for example South Carolina - are running 32 point leads in the polls, against the 12 point lead that Trump got there in 2020.

    It's very hard to see evidence that Trump's endorsement adds to the electability of a candidate; and there's plenty of evidence to the contrary.

    And while one can point to Wyoming to talk about the Trump's popularity with the base, one also has to acknowledge Georgia, where Brian Kemp (a Republican enemy of Trump every bit as much in the ex-President's spotlight) saw off a Trump endorsed challenger by a 2:1 margin.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 16,536
    edited August 25

    The GP service doesn’t work.
    It’s effective closure during lockdowns (and reduced service even to this day) has increased reliance on over-stretched A&E resources, including ambulance teams.

    If you started from scratch to figure out a primary care system that doesn’t just gatekeep but works to deliver preventative health measures, you would not come up with the current GP system.

    Is that the view from New York? Some GP services are fine, thanks. I had an issue earlier this year. E-consult followed by phone call followed by examination. Same day. Resolved. Happy.
    GPs did not effectively close during lockdowns, you just couldn’t physically attend without appointments.
    Of course some are “fine”.

    The question is why have there been strains - continuing strains - on A&E.
    The NHS is riddled with issues of course, but on this particular issue we must look at the top of the funnel.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 15,917

    The GP service doesn’t work.
    It’s effective closure during lockdowns (and reduced service even to this day) has increased reliance on over-stretched A&E resources, including ambulance teams.

    If you started from scratch to figure out a primary care system that doesn’t just gatekeep but works to deliver preventative health measures, you would not come up with the current GP system.

    I think it may be quicker if instead of noting problem areas we start listing things the government is responsible for and that work well.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 19,490

    System said:

    The ambulance service is becoming a huge problem for Tories – politicalbetting.com

    Health Sec Steve Barclay confronted by angry member of public over beleaguered ambulance service: “Twelve years. You’ve done bugger all about it”. pic.twitter.com/9O5x1yUcU2

    Read the full story here

    Past form suggests we'll soon find out the man is a lifelong Labour activist.
    If you watch the clip you'll soon find out the man was a woman.

    If the woman turns out to be a lifelong Labour activist will that diminish the issue with the ambulance service? Or her point that the Tories have had 12 years to sort it out?
    Yes.
    No it wouldn't it.
    The '12 years' remark sounds like a bit of a tell to me. Most common or garden members of the public wouldn't be that precise about the Tories' time in power, but it is a very important point for opponents to stress.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 16,536

    System said:

    The ambulance service is becoming a huge problem for Tories – politicalbetting.com

    Health Sec Steve Barclay confronted by angry member of public over beleaguered ambulance service: “Twelve years. You’ve done bugger all about it”. pic.twitter.com/9O5x1yUcU2

    Read the full story here

    Past form suggests we'll soon find out the man is a lifelong Labour activist.
    If you watch the clip you'll soon find out the man was a woman.

    If the woman turns out to be a lifelong Labour activist will that diminish the issue with the ambulance service? Or her point that the Tories have had 12 years to sort it out?
    Yes.
    No it wouldn't it.
    The '12 years' remark sounds like a bit of a tell to me. Most common or garden members of the public wouldn't be that precise about the Tories' time in power, but it is a very important point for opponents to stress.
    From which weird recess of your brain comes the urge to discredit a critic of probably the shittest government in modern history?
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 19,490

    Omnium said:

    Omnium said:

    "Getting things done", "Getting on with the job"; are I think are the most annoying phrases in politics.

    Actual achievement seems quite dissociated from these phrases.

    At one point I believe Gordon Brown said, "I'm getting on with the job of getting on with the job."
    A feather then in my cap, but of course a rancid puddle around my ankles with the Brown legacy.
    There's a whole lexicon of political weasel words that sound impressive whilst guaranteeing no actual change for the better. 'Tough on', 'tackling', 'take action on' are some of the most irritating.
    Boris went through umpteen relaunches to “get a grip” but never really showed any interest in doing so.
    Yep, getting a grip on things is up there.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 19,551
    This is just what happens when a party has been in power for a long time.

    Time for a spell in Opposition for the Tories.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 5,411

    The GP service doesn’t work.
    It’s effective closure during lockdowns (and reduced service even to this day) has increased reliance on over-stretched A&E resources, including ambulance teams.

    If you started from scratch to figure out a primary care system that doesn’t just gatekeep but works to deliver preventative health measures, you would not come up with the current GP system.

    The gp system hasnt worked for several years I was with my old gp from 87...in that time I saw appointments stretch from a couple of days to get to 3 weeks in the future. I gave up and on the rare occasion I need to see someone I go straight to A&E. Now I have moved home I am not even going to bother registering with a gp I can never use
  • FishingFishing Posts: 3,744

    System said:

    The ambulance service is becoming a huge problem for Tories – politicalbetting.com

    Health Sec Steve Barclay confronted by angry member of public over beleaguered ambulance service: “Twelve years. You’ve done bugger all about it”. pic.twitter.com/9O5x1yUcU2

    Read the full story here

    Past form suggests we'll soon find out the man is a lifelong Labour activist.
    If you watch the clip you'll soon find out the man was a woman.

    If the woman turns out to be a lifelong Labour activist will that diminish the issue with the ambulance service? Or her point that the Tories have had 12 years to sort it out?
    Yes.
    No it wouldn't it.
    The '12 years' remark sounds like a bit of a tell to me. Most common or garden members of the public wouldn't be that precise about the Tories' time in power, but it is a very important point for opponents to stress.
    From which weird recess of your brain comes the urge to discredit a critic of probably the shittest government in modern history?
    What has Gordon Brown got to do with ambulances today?
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 19,490

    System said:

    The ambulance service is becoming a huge problem for Tories – politicalbetting.com

    Health Sec Steve Barclay confronted by angry member of public over beleaguered ambulance service: “Twelve years. You’ve done bugger all about it”. pic.twitter.com/9O5x1yUcU2

    Read the full story here

    Past form suggests we'll soon find out the man is a lifelong Labour activist.
    If you watch the clip you'll soon find out the man was a woman.

    If the woman turns out to be a lifelong Labour activist will that diminish the issue with the ambulance service? Or her point that the Tories have had 12 years to sort it out?
    Yes.
    No it wouldn't it.
    The '12 years' remark sounds like a bit of a tell to me. Most common or garden members of the public wouldn't be that precise about the Tories' time in power, but it is a very important point for opponents to stress.
    From which weird recess of your brain comes the urge to discredit a critic of probably the shittest government in modern history?
    I have no particular desire to do anything of the kind, I just say what I think.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 42,932
    GIN1138 said:

    This is just what happens when a party has been in power for a long time.

    Time for a spell in Opposition for the Tories.

    There's a related question about whether an opposition can be out of power for too long. Maybe Labour in 1992 would have done a better job than Labour did in 1997.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 10,438

    The GP service doesn’t work.
    It’s effective closure during lockdowns (and reduced service even to this day) has increased reliance on over-stretched A&E resources, including ambulance teams.

    If you started from scratch to figure out a primary care system that doesn’t just gatekeep but works to deliver preventative health measures, you would not come up with the current GP system.

    Is that the view from New York? Some GP services are fine, thanks. I had an issue earlier this year. E-consult followed by phone call followed by examination. Same day. Resolved. Happy.
    GPs did not effectively close during lockdowns, you just couldn’t physically attend without appointments.
    Of course some are “fine”.

    The question is why have there been strains - continuing strains - on A&E.
    The NHS is riddled with issues of course, but on this particular issue we must look at the top of the funnel.
    Primary strain on A and E is the inability to empty patients out to social care. If an ambulance is waiting with a patient for 8 hours to unload, it’s not A and E that’s the issue, it’s the main hospital bed occupancy.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 42,597

    System said:

    The ambulance service is becoming a huge problem for Tories – politicalbetting.com

    Health Sec Steve Barclay confronted by angry member of public over beleaguered ambulance service: “Twelve years. You’ve done bugger all about it”. pic.twitter.com/9O5x1yUcU2

    Read the full story here

    Past form suggests we'll soon find out the man is a lifelong Labour activist.
    If you watch the clip you'll soon find out the man was a woman.

    If the woman turns out to be a lifelong Labour activist will that diminish the issue with the ambulance service? Or her point that the Tories have had 12 years to sort it out?
    Yes.
    No it wouldn't it.
    The '12 years' remark sounds like a bit of a tell to me. Most common or garden members of the public wouldn't be that precise about the Tories' time in power, but it is a very important point for opponents to stress.
    From which weird recess of your brain comes the urge to discredit a critic of probably the shittest government in modern history?
    I have no particular desire to do anything of the kind, I just say what I think.
    And the lady told Barclay what she thought.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 42,597

    System said:

    The ambulance service is becoming a huge problem for Tories – politicalbetting.com

    Health Sec Steve Barclay confronted by angry member of public over beleaguered ambulance service: “Twelve years. You’ve done bugger all about it”. pic.twitter.com/9O5x1yUcU2

    Read the full story here

    Past form suggests we'll soon find out the man is a lifelong Labour activist.
    If you watch the clip you'll soon find out the man was a woman.

    If the woman turns out to be a lifelong Labour activist will that diminish the issue with the ambulance service? Or her point that the Tories have had 12 years to sort it out?
    Yes.
    No it wouldn't it.
    The '12 years' remark sounds like a bit of a tell to me. Most common or garden members of the public wouldn't be that precise about the Tories' time in power, but it is a very important point for opponents to stress.
    Well, haven't the Tories been in office for 12 years, Tory Boy?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 17,283

    I would add that Rishi’s £10 charge for GP no-shows is a great example of his total lack of acumen.

    You can see how he got there…it kind of makes sense…on Planet Vulcan.

    What it shows, I think, is that Rishi does not explain it properly, and maybe that is because he has not thought it through or because there is no "lessons learned" review of past performances. Rishi's idea is that if 15 million no-shows cancel in advance, that will free up 15 million appointments for patients who now can't get them.

    Trouble is that often medics overbook, like airlines, so missed appointments just mean the next patient is called in a few minutes earlier than would otherwise be the case.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 8,508
    edited August 25
    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    17 days until Sweden votes and one of the country's "rolling" polling organisations has its daily update:

    https://www.svt.se/datajournalistik/val2022/valjarbarometer-dag-for-dag/

    I'm sure everyone's Swedish is up to this but a very good poll for the Sweden Democrats and a clear advantage for the centre-right coalition.

    OTOH, another "rolling pollster", SIFO, in its daily offering, has the centre-left narrowly ahead.

    It’s that all it’s going to be for England and Wales then once Davey and Starmer introduces PR - a choice of centre left or centre right governments for ever and ever, never again a Truss v Sunak party election to produce a right wing UK Prime Minister?
    If we had PR in 2015 UKIP and the Tories combined would have got 50% of the vote
    I’m sorry you don’t understand.

    Dave and George and their governments were almost as far from this Blukip rubbish as Starmer and his shadow government are, that’s the point I’m making - yet you are claiming every bit of them and their party membership at that time sitting in government with Farage rather than Libdems and Starmer Labour, under PR? 😂

    How can I give an example to you? Like this. Remember Boris Great Purge of Talented Tory Moderates 2019 - Hammond only defied whip once in his life and thrown out his party - under PR they would have danced a conga out the party with party hats on, off to government for the rest of their political careers, the rubbish blukip rump they left behind (that indeed has proved itself most utter rubbish in government) welcome to its political wilderness. Yes. That explains the change that is coming to British politics.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 16,536

    The GP service doesn’t work.
    It’s effective closure during lockdowns (and reduced service even to this day) has increased reliance on over-stretched A&E resources, including ambulance teams.

    If you started from scratch to figure out a primary care system that doesn’t just gatekeep but works to deliver preventative health measures, you would not come up with the current GP system.

    Is that the view from New York? Some GP services are fine, thanks. I had an issue earlier this year. E-consult followed by phone call followed by examination. Same day. Resolved. Happy.
    GPs did not effectively close during lockdowns, you just couldn’t physically attend without appointments.
    Of course some are “fine”.

    The question is why have there been strains - continuing strains - on A&E.
    The NHS is riddled with issues of course, but on this particular issue we must look at the top of the funnel.
    Primary strain on A and E is the inability to empty patients out to social care. If an ambulance is waiting with a patient for 8 hours to unload, it’s not A and E that’s the issue, it’s the main hospital bed occupancy.
    That’s true, but it’s not “new”, as far as I know (albeit slowly getting worse).

  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 17,283
    Liz Truss's plan for law and order is... league tables.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 44,990
    Video of the Soviet monument being dismantled in Latvia
    https://twitter.com/OstapYarysh/status/1562839264559190017

    Enjoy.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 42,597
    edited August 25
    https://inews.co.uk/inews-lifestyle/travel/brexit-partly-blame-eurostar-kent-remain-closed-1812718?ico=most_popular

    "Brexit partly to blame as Eurostar Kent stops to remain closed for at least two years.

    "Ashford International and Ebbsfleet Eurostar services may not resume until 2025 and the operator said the delay had been affected by a tougher post-Brexit border environment and the expected launch of the EU’s Entry Exit System."
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 877
    One of the most striking polls in 2016 primary campaign matched up John Kasich and Donald Trump against Hillary Clinton in Pennsylvania. Kasich was winning by 18 points, Trump, if I recall correctly, by 4. That wouldn't be a surprise to those who knew Kasich's electoral history: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Kasich#Electoral_history

    Kasich probably did get a boost from being from a neighboring state, Ohio. He is, of course, out of politics, now.

    But I think that example is more evidence that, if the Republicans nominate a rational candidate, they will have a better chance than if they nominate Trump, or a Trumpian.

    In general, Republicans do best if they nominate people from working class backgrounds, like Eisenhower and Nixon.

    (Incidentally, speaking of electoral records, you shouldn't assume Crist will lose to DeSantis. Crist has won more elections than he's lost: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Crist#Electoral_history )



  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 19,811

    The GP service doesn’t work.
    It’s effective closure during lockdowns (and reduced service even to this day) has increased reliance on over-stretched A&E resources, including ambulance teams.

    If you started from scratch to figure out a primary care system that doesn’t just gatekeep but works to deliver preventative health measures, you would not come up with the current GP system.

    I think it's just patchy. My GP surgery is splendid - book appointments any time, take as long as you need within reason, get called in for preventive medical jabs, four GPs, one keener than the next. I went in with a had a minor problem a few months ago; the GP discussed it at some length, then rang me at 8 that evening; "I've been thinking about what you raised, and I wonder if we should try..." The catchment area is not uniformly posh - there'd an ex-council estate, ASB, and so on. We're just lucky.

    Conversely, a friend has a GP who still operates the "call between 8 and 830 or get lost" appointment system, is always hurried, and has missed at least one significant issue.

    So I don't think it's a rubbish system - it just has some rubbish practitioners, and it tends to be those who get in the papers.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 19,490

    System said:

    The ambulance service is becoming a huge problem for Tories – politicalbetting.com

    Health Sec Steve Barclay confronted by angry member of public over beleaguered ambulance service: “Twelve years. You’ve done bugger all about it”. pic.twitter.com/9O5x1yUcU2

    Read the full story here

    Past form suggests we'll soon find out the man is a lifelong Labour activist.
    If you watch the clip you'll soon find out the man was a woman.

    If the woman turns out to be a lifelong Labour activist will that diminish the issue with the ambulance service? Or her point that the Tories have had 12 years to sort it out?
    Yes.
    No it wouldn't it.
    The '12 years' remark sounds like a bit of a tell to me. Most common or garden members of the public wouldn't be that precise about the Tories' time in power, but it is a very important point for opponents to stress.
    Well, haven't the Tories been in office for 12 years, Tory Boy?
    Yes. I wasn't commenting on the accuracy of the observation.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,648
    Never mind any of this shit, i've just had to evict the biggest spider ive ever seen. Fucking thing might as well have been Shelob. Nothing gets that big without committing atrocities.
    If it gets back in.......
    Pray for me tonight peebee.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 44,990

    One of the most striking polls in 2016 primary campaign matched up John Kasich and Donald Trump against Hillary Clinton in Pennsylvania. Kasich was winning by 18 points, Trump, if I recall correctly, by 4. That wouldn't be a surprise to those who knew Kasich's electoral history: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Kasich#Electoral_history

    Kasich probably did get a boost from being from a neighboring state, Ohio. He is, of course, out of politics, now.

    But I think that example is more evidence that, if the Republicans nominate a rational candidate, they will have a better chance than if they nominate Trump, or a Trumpian.

    In general, Republicans do best if they nominate people from working class backgrounds, like Eisenhower and Nixon.

    (Incidentally, speaking of electoral records, you shouldn't assume Crist will lose to DeSantis. Crist has won more elections than he's lost: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Crist#Electoral_history )

    On the latter point, the Betfair markets are now up for both Senate and Gubernatorial elections.

    I’ve put a little cash on Crist, FWIW.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 8,508
    edited August 25

    My ex was nicknamed the ambulance.

    She made a lot of noise to let you know she was [that’s enough -ed.]

    Parked up outside waiting for you to unload?
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 10,438

    The GP service doesn’t work.
    It’s effective closure during lockdowns (and reduced service even to this day) has increased reliance on over-stretched A&E resources, including ambulance teams.

    If you started from scratch to figure out a primary care system that doesn’t just gatekeep but works to deliver preventative health measures, you would not come up with the current GP system.

    Is that the view from New York? Some GP services are fine, thanks. I had an issue earlier this year. E-consult followed by phone call followed by examination. Same day. Resolved. Happy.
    GPs did not effectively close during lockdowns, you just couldn’t physically attend without appointments.
    Of course some are “fine”.

    The question is why have there been strains - continuing strains - on A&E.
    The NHS is riddled with issues of course, but on this particular issue we must look at the top of the funnel.
    Primary strain on A and E is the inability to empty patients out to social care. If an ambulance is waiting with a patient for 8 hours to unload, it’s not A and E that’s the issue, it’s the main hospital bed occupancy.
    That’s true, but it’s not “new”, as far as I know (albeit slowly getting worse).

    It’s currently amplified by covid, including covid incidentals.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 10,316
    Ouch. I almost feel sorry for him. "All you've done about it is nothing" is a lovely line.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 10,438

    Never mind any of this shit, i've just had to evict the biggest spider ive ever seen. Fucking thing might as well have been Shelob. Nothing gets that big without committing atrocities.
    If it gets back in.......
    Pray for me tonight peebee.

    Please post early tomorrow, so that we know you’ve made it through the night… :D
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 104,912

    One of the most striking polls in 2016 primary campaign matched up John Kasich and Donald Trump against Hillary Clinton in Pennsylvania. Kasich was winning by 18 points, Trump, if I recall correctly, by 4. That wouldn't be a surprise to those who knew Kasich's electoral history: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Kasich#Electoral_history

    Kasich probably did get a boost from being from a neighboring state, Ohio. He is, of course, out of politics, now.

    But I think that example is more evidence that, if the Republicans nominate a rational candidate, they will have a better chance than if they nominate Trump, or a Trumpian.

    In general, Republicans do best if they nominate people from working class backgrounds, like Eisenhower and Nixon.

    (Incidentally, speaking of electoral records, you shouldn't assume Crist will lose to DeSantis. Crist has won more elections than he's lost: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Crist#Electoral_history )



    Reagan won twice from a blue collar background too. However that is not always the case. For example George W Bush won twice from an upper class background and Trump himself was the son of a multi millionaire. Bob Dole's background was pretty ordinary and he lost in 1996
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 55,032

    System said:

    The ambulance service is becoming a huge problem for Tories – politicalbetting.com

    Health Sec Steve Barclay confronted by angry member of public over beleaguered ambulance service: “Twelve years. You’ve done bugger all about it”. pic.twitter.com/9O5x1yUcU2

    Read the full story here

    Past form suggests we'll soon find out the man is a lifelong Labour activist.
    If you watch the clip you'll soon find out the man was a woman.

    If the woman turns out to be a lifelong Labour activist will that diminish the issue with the ambulance service? Or her point that the Tories have had 12 years to sort it out?
    Yes.
    No it wouldn't it.
    The '12 years' remark sounds like a bit of a tell to me. Most common or garden members of the public wouldn't be that precise about the Tories' time in power, but it is a very important point for opponents to stress.
    Well, haven't the Tories been in office for 12 years, Tory Boy?
    And labour have been in power in Wales longer and the same issues are manifest throughout Wales
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 8,508

    Never mind any of this shit, i've just had to evict the biggest spider ive ever seen. Fucking thing might as well have been Shelob. Nothing gets that big without committing atrocities.
    If it gets back in.......
    Pray for me tonight peebee.

    You havn’t gone and upset it 🫢

    Don’t answer the doorbell. I did once in the middle of Emmerdale. Sat on the mat was the snail I had thrown over the back fence the week before. I picked it up and it shouted WHAT DID YOU DO THAT FOR!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 104,912
    edited August 25

    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    17 days until Sweden votes and one of the country's "rolling" polling organisations has its daily update:

    https://www.svt.se/datajournalistik/val2022/valjarbarometer-dag-for-dag/

    I'm sure everyone's Swedish is up to this but a very good poll for the Sweden Democrats and a clear advantage for the centre-right coalition.

    OTOH, another "rolling pollster", SIFO, in its daily offering, has the centre-left narrowly ahead.

    It’s that all it’s going to be for England and Wales then once Davey and Starmer introduces PR - a choice of centre left or centre right governments for ever and ever, never again a Truss v Sunak party election to produce a right wing UK Prime Minister?
    If we had PR in 2015 UKIP and the Tories combined would have got 50% of the vote
    I’m sorry you don’t understand.

    Dave and George and their governments were almost as far from this Blukip rubbish as Starmer and his shadow government are, that’s the point I’m making - yet you are claiming every bit of them and their party membership at that time sitting in government with Farage rather than Libdems and Starmer Labour, under PR? 😂

    How can I give an example to you? Like this. Remember Boris Great Purge of Talented Tory Moderates 2019 - Hammond only defied whip once in his life and thrown out his party - under PR they would have danced a conga out the party with party hats on, off to government for the rest of their political careers, the rubbish blukip rump they left behind (that indeed has proved itself most utter rubbish in government) welcome to its political wilderness. Yes. That explains the change that is coming to British politics.
    Cameron's Tories and the LDs combined were on 45% in 2015, that did not have the numbers to continue in government with PR.

    The Tories and UKIP on about 50% combined however did have the numbers for a majority government under PR. Unless you are suggesting Cameron would have formed a Merkel style grand coalition with Ed Miliband's Labour?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 72,708
    Winter is coming
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 8,323

    My ex was nicknamed the ambulance.

    She made a lot of noise to let you know she was [that’s enough -ed.]

    Parked up outside waiting for you to unload?
    That is the post of the decade. No, the millennium. I want to like it twice.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 19,490

    My ex was nicknamed the ambulance.

    She made a lot of noise to let you know she was [that’s enough -ed.]

    Parked up outside waiting for you to unload?
    A large incoming hazard to traffic and pedestrians?
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,648

    Never mind any of this shit, i've just had to evict the biggest spider ive ever seen. Fucking thing might as well have been Shelob. Nothing gets that big without committing atrocities.
    If it gets back in.......
    Pray for me tonight peebee.

    Please post early tomorrow, so that we know you’ve made it through the night… :D
    I've got my bravest teddy on first watch. Veteran of the 'funny looking gross insect' incident
This discussion has been closed.