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The ambulance service is becoming a huge problem for Tories – politicalbetting.com

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  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 9,028

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    We're about to have an utter loon as PM. Or, at best, someone prepared to act like a loon because she thinks it will advance her career.

    TalkTV hustings:

    * Liz Truss says 'jury's out' on whether Macron is friend or foe; Sunak says he's a friend

    * Sunak says LizTruss would make a better PM than Johnson; Truss says Johnson

    * Truss says energy bills are 'massive issue' but 'bunging money' at system is not answer.


    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1562892217228079105

    Graham Brady better not book any holidays this winter.
    I’ve not seen evidence of Truss somehow surprising “on the upside”

    She needs the loons onboard to survive in post. Therefore, she’ll be a loon

    It is LOL.

    The membership are about to elect IDS mark II to the premiership. It will one hapless mishap and gaffe and on-the-hoof bonkers policy announcement after another.

    As the gaffes mount she will redouble her efforts by making up even more bonkers quiet bat people nonsense to sell.

    Meanwhile the wall of economic shit will pour over her useless Cabinet.

    I am convinced there will be a leadership election next summer.

    I’m starting to think she won’t take them into the election too. There will be like the coup against IDS, no member vote, and Wallace or Barclay, or someone similarly acceptable to most MPs will lead them into the general election.
    It would have to be Wallace by coronation a la Howard 2003 if she was replaced like IDS before the next election. We cannot have 2 leadership contests in 1 parliament
    That’s what I said, Wallace, or Barclay or such like in a coronation. Probably similar time of year, Nov 23.

    It’s like my Dad said right at the start, it’s not just the next election to worry about, Leave office having completely shredded your credibility on the economy - that credibility won’t be rebuilt quickly in opposition - lack of trust in you on economy, health, cost of living, can play even bigger five years after throwing away incumbency bonus, you can actually lose more seats not gain them in subsequent elections, five years time and in ten years time when people remember the wrong headed decisions made in the last years of the spell in power even without all the opposition parties reminding them.

    Which is why, HY, I said below about PR. Give Labour and Lib `dems and SNP votes control of the commons for the next 15 years, which the record of PM Truss will, there can be all sorts of changes and all sorts of mountains for Conservative politics to climb to enjoy power like this again.
    If the economy is as bad as that then there would be frequent changes of government. A Labour, LD and SNP government of high inflation and frequent strikes would swiftly see a swing back to the right, even under PR. Farage would also of course win dozens of seats with PR
    I guess you prefer to stick with the current Tory high inflation and frequent strikes.
    Is the high inflation across Europe and elsewhere 'Tory high inflation' or actually 'Putin's evil war' against Ukraine
    Inflation was rising before the war. Your lot have been in power for 12 years. Since they take credit for any good news, they need to own the bad as well. It's a mess.
    It is a mess because of covid and the war and is affecting governments across the world

    Prior to covid the country was doing just fine
    If there wasn’t a war, would you be blaming “excessive cloud” or “low %s of grass hoppers” or something else patently unconnected for what is a patent failure of one after another Tory manifestos?
    But the point is there is a war and covid cost hundreds of billions
    No the point here is what Has either covid or the war got to do with six Tory manifestos promising to deliver on immigration numbers, and 12 years in of continuous rule it’s proved a failure to deliver. The conclusion is that bit of manifestos written with fingers crossed behind the back, because cutting immigration equals xx% off of GDP, and these Conservative governments havn’t been prepared to cut that off GDP despite talking up their promise to do so. A failure to deliver on promised policy by bossed with short term impacts on themselves, not the long term.

    Instead they replaced the EU free movement with non EU free movement built into Liz Truss trade deals, she is always boasting she delivered.

    That’s the point. Though I’m happy to be corrected where wrong.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 24,592
    edited August 2022

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    We're about to have an utter loon as PM. Or, at best, someone prepared to act like a loon because she thinks it will advance her career.

    TalkTV hustings:

    * Liz Truss says 'jury's out' on whether Macron is friend or foe; Sunak says he's a friend

    * Sunak says LizTruss would make a better PM than Johnson; Truss says Johnson

    * Truss says energy bills are 'massive issue' but 'bunging money' at system is not answer.


    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1562892217228079105

    Graham Brady better not book any holidays this winter.
    I’ve not seen evidence of Truss somehow surprising “on the upside”

    She needs the loons onboard to survive in post. Therefore, she’ll be a loon

    It is LOL.

    The membership are about to elect IDS mark II to the premiership. It will one hapless mishap and gaffe and on-the-hoof bonkers policy announcement after another.

    As the gaffes mount she will redouble her efforts by making up even more bonkers quiet bat people nonsense to sell.

    Meanwhile the wall of economic shit will pour over her useless Cabinet.

    I am convinced there will be a leadership election next summer.

    I’m starting to think she won’t take them into the election too. There will be like the coup against IDS, no member vote, and Wallace or Barclay, or someone similarly acceptable to most MPs will lead them into the general election.
    It would have to be Wallace by coronation a la Howard 2003 if she was replaced like IDS before the next election. We cannot have 2 leadership contests in 1 parliament
    That’s what I said, Wallace, or Barclay or such like in a coronation. Probably similar time of year, Nov 23.

    It’s like my Dad said right at the start, it’s not just the next election to worry about, Leave office having completely shredded your credibility on the economy - that credibility won’t be rebuilt quickly in opposition - lack of trust in you on economy, health, cost of living, can play even bigger five years after throwing away incumbency bonus, you can actually lose more seats not gain them in subsequent elections, five years time and in ten years time when people remember the wrong headed decisions made in the last years of the spell in power even without all the opposition parties reminding them.

    Which is why, HY, I said below about PR. Give Labour and Lib `dems and SNP votes control of the commons for the next 15 years, which the record of PM Truss will, there can be all sorts of changes and all sorts of mountains for Conservative politics to climb to enjoy power like this again.
    If the economy is as bad as that then there would be frequent changes of government. A Labour, LD and SNP government of high inflation and frequent strikes would swiftly see a swing back to the right, even under PR. Farage would also of course win dozens of seats with PR
    I guess you prefer to stick with the current Tory high inflation and frequent strikes.
    Is the high inflation across Europe and elsewhere 'Tory high inflation' or actually 'Putin's evil war' against Ukraine
    Inflation is 6.1% in France*. It's 8.8% in the UK; that's nearly half as much again.

    (*Yes France, the country roundly condemned by UK Tories as forever on the edge of catastrophe.)

    It is a lot higher in other European countries and especially in the Baltic states
    So you think Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia are appropriate comparitors rather than France?
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 9,028

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    We're about to have an utter loon as PM. Or, at best, someone prepared to act like a loon because she thinks it will advance her career.

    TalkTV hustings:

    * Liz Truss says 'jury's out' on whether Macron is friend or foe; Sunak says he's a friend

    * Sunak says LizTruss would make a better PM than Johnson; Truss says Johnson

    * Truss says energy bills are 'massive issue' but 'bunging money' at system is not answer.


    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1562892217228079105

    Graham Brady better not book any holidays this winter.
    I’ve not seen evidence of Truss somehow surprising “on the upside”

    She needs the loons onboard to survive in post. Therefore, she’ll be a loon

    It is LOL.

    The membership are about to elect IDS mark II to the premiership. It will one hapless mishap and gaffe and on-the-hoof bonkers policy announcement after another.

    As the gaffes mount she will redouble her efforts by making up even more bonkers quiet bat people nonsense to sell.

    Meanwhile the wall of economic shit will pour over her useless Cabinet.

    I am convinced there will be a leadership election next summer.

    I’m starting to think she won’t take them into the election too. There will be like the coup against IDS, no member vote, and Wallace or Barclay, or someone similarly acceptable to most MPs will lead them into the general election.
    It would have to be Wallace by coronation a la Howard 2003 if she was replaced like IDS before the next election. We cannot have 2 leadership contests in 1 parliament
    That’s what I said, Wallace, or Barclay or such like in a coronation. Probably similar time of year, Nov 23.

    It’s like my Dad said right at the start, it’s not just the next election to worry about, Leave office having completely shredded your credibility on the economy - that credibility won’t be rebuilt quickly in opposition - lack of trust in you on economy, health, cost of living, can play even bigger five years after throwing away incumbency bonus, you can actually lose more seats not gain them in subsequent elections, five years time and in ten years time when people remember the wrong headed decisions made in the last years of the spell in power even without all the opposition parties reminding them.

    Which is why, HY, I said below about PR. Give Labour and Lib `dems and SNP votes control of the commons for the next 15 years, which the record of PM Truss will, there can be all sorts of changes and all sorts of mountains for Conservative politics to climb to enjoy power like this again.
    If the economy is as bad as that then there would be frequent changes of government. A Labour, LD and SNP government of high inflation and frequent strikes would swiftly see a swing back to the right, even under PR. Farage would also of course win dozens of seats with PR
    I guess you prefer to stick with the current Tory high inflation and frequent strikes.
    Is the high inflation across Europe and elsewhere 'Tory high inflation' or actually 'Putin's evil war' against Ukraine
    Inflation is 6.1% in France*. It's 8.8% in the UK; that's nearly half as much again.

    (*Yes France, the country roundly condemned by UK Tories as forever on the edge of catastrophe.)

    It is a lot higher in other European countries and especially in the Baltic states
    Don’t we have the worst in the G7?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 15,467

    PM Trussticles is going to be fun

    Truss is a weirdo, an oddball and seems a bit loopy. Boris was arguably better than her. It’s not clear why the Tory members are so keen on her.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 48,955
    edited August 2022

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    We're about to have an utter loon as PM. Or, at best, someone prepared to act like a loon because she thinks it will advance her career.

    TalkTV hustings:

    * Liz Truss says 'jury's out' on whether Macron is friend or foe; Sunak says he's a friend

    * Sunak says LizTruss would make a better PM than Johnson; Truss says Johnson

    * Truss says energy bills are 'massive issue' but 'bunging money' at system is not answer.


    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1562892217228079105

    Graham Brady better not book any holidays this winter.
    I’ve not seen evidence of Truss somehow surprising “on the upside”

    She needs the loons onboard to survive in post. Therefore, she’ll be a loon

    It is LOL.

    The membership are about to elect IDS mark II to the premiership. It will one hapless mishap and gaffe and on-the-hoof bonkers policy announcement after another.

    As the gaffes mount she will redouble her efforts by making up even more bonkers quiet bat people nonsense to sell.

    Meanwhile the wall of economic shit will pour over her useless Cabinet.

    I am convinced there will be a leadership election next summer.

    I’m starting to think she won’t take them into the election too. There will be like the coup against IDS, no member vote, and Wallace or Barclay, or someone similarly acceptable to most MPs will lead them into the general election.
    It would have to be Wallace by coronation a la Howard 2003 if she was replaced like IDS before the next election. We cannot have 2 leadership contests in 1 parliament
    That’s what I said, Wallace, or Barclay or such like in a coronation. Probably similar time of year, Nov 23.

    It’s like my Dad said right at the start, it’s not just the next election to worry about, Leave office having completely shredded your credibility on the economy - that credibility won’t be rebuilt quickly in opposition - lack of trust in you on economy, health, cost of living, can play even bigger five years after throwing away incumbency bonus, you can actually lose more seats not gain them in subsequent elections, five years time and in ten years time when people remember the wrong headed decisions made in the last years of the spell in power even without all the opposition parties reminding them.

    Which is why, HY, I said below about PR. Give Labour and Lib `dems and SNP votes control of the commons for the next 15 years, which the record of PM Truss will, there can be all sorts of changes and all sorts of mountains for Conservative politics to climb to enjoy power like this again.
    If the economy is as bad as that then there would be frequent changes of government. A Labour, LD and SNP government of high inflation and frequent strikes would swiftly see a swing back to the right, even under PR. Farage would also of course win dozens of seats with PR
    I guess you prefer to stick with the current Tory high inflation and frequent strikes.
    Is the high inflation across Europe and elsewhere 'Tory high inflation' or actually 'Putin's evil war' against Ukraine
    Inflation is 6.1% in France*. It's 8.8% in the UK; that's nearly half as much again.

    (*Yes France, the country roundly condemned by UK Tories as forever on the edge of catastrophe.)

    Inflation is 8.9% across the EU

    https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/documents/2995521/14644650/2-29072022-AP-EN.pdf/8b14d87f-df6c-aeb5-7dc9-40c60e4f6bc2#:~:text=Euro area annual inflation is,office of the European Union.
    Heavily slanted by the Baltic states all having >20% inflation.
    The Baltic states collectively are less than 1.4% of the EU population. Whatever effect they are having, it is not "heavily slanting" the EU figures.
    How are Eurozone inflation numbers calculated?

    Because the three largest EU/Eurozone states are Germany (7.5% inflation), France (6.1%) and Italy (7.9%). They are all well below the EU/Eurozone average, which is strange because they account for 210m of the 440m EZ population.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 1,460

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    We're about to have an utter loon as PM. Or, at best, someone prepared to act like a loon because she thinks it will advance her career.

    TalkTV hustings:

    * Liz Truss says 'jury's out' on whether Macron is friend or foe; Sunak says he's a friend

    * Sunak says LizTruss would make a better PM than Johnson; Truss says Johnson

    * Truss says energy bills are 'massive issue' but 'bunging money' at system is not answer.


    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1562892217228079105

    Graham Brady better not book any holidays this winter.
    I’ve not seen evidence of Truss somehow surprising “on the upside”

    She needs the loons onboard to survive in post. Therefore, she’ll be a loon

    It is LOL.

    The membership are about to elect IDS mark II to the premiership. It will one hapless mishap and gaffe and on-the-hoof bonkers policy announcement after another.

    As the gaffes mount she will redouble her efforts by making up even more bonkers quiet bat people nonsense to sell.

    Meanwhile the wall of economic shit will pour over her useless Cabinet.

    I am convinced there will be a leadership election next summer.

    I’m starting to think she won’t take them into the election too. There will be like the coup against IDS, no member vote, and Wallace or Barclay, or someone similarly acceptable to most MPs will lead them into the general election.
    It would have to be Wallace by coronation a la Howard 2003 if she was replaced like IDS before the next election. We cannot have 2 leadership contests in 1 parliament
    That’s what I said, Wallace, or Barclay or such like in a coronation. Probably similar time of year, Nov 23.

    It’s like my Dad said right at the start, it’s not just the next election to worry about, Leave office having completely shredded your credibility on the economy - that credibility won’t be rebuilt quickly in opposition - lack of trust in you on economy, health, cost of living, can play even bigger five years after throwing away incumbency bonus, you can actually lose more seats not gain them in subsequent elections, five years time and in ten years time when people remember the wrong headed decisions made in the last years of the spell in power even without all the opposition parties reminding them.

    Which is why, HY, I said below about PR. Give Labour and Lib `dems and SNP votes control of the commons for the next 15 years, which the record of PM Truss will, there can be all sorts of changes and all sorts of mountains for Conservative politics to climb to enjoy power like this again.
    If the economy is as bad as that then there would be frequent changes of government. A Labour, LD and SNP government of high inflation and frequent strikes would swiftly see a swing back to the right, even under PR. Farage would also of course win dozens of seats with PR
    I guess you prefer to stick with the current Tory high inflation and frequent strikes.
    Is the high inflation across Europe and elsewhere 'Tory high inflation' or actually 'Putin's evil war' against Ukraine
    Inflation is 6.1% in France*. It's 8.8% in the UK; that's nearly half as much again.

    (*Yes France, the country roundly condemned by UK Tories as forever on the edge of catastrophe.)

    It is a lot higher in other European countries and especially in the Baltic states
    So you think Latvias, Lithuania and Estonia are appropriate comparitors rather than France?
    They are not. But France is a poor compar-tor because of Nuclear energy, when so much of our inflation is due to energy costs.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 24,592
    edited August 2022
    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    Cookie said:

    Never mind any of this shit, i've just had to evict the biggest spider ive ever seen. Fucking thing might as well have been Shelob. Nothing gets that big without committing atrocities.
    If it gets back in.......
    Pray for me tonight peebee.

    Please post early tomorrow, so that we know you’ve made it through the night… :D
    I've got my bravest teddy on first watch. Veteran of the 'funny looking gross insect' incident
    What you need is a cat.
    If you have never seen a cat dealing with a September spider you have missed an experience. Chewing away, puzzled look on its face - "I - assume - I was supposed to do this, but I'm honestly not finding it as rewarding as I anticipated".
    I put two whoopers out yesterday and our dog ate them before they could get away, although one put up a sterling effort to escape. He also eats wasps and never seems to come to any harm.
    Right you all need to send your furries to me. Im conscripting furry friends to deal with what im increasingly inclined to believe are Macron voting French giant spiders
    If you had our dog a few spiders will be the least of your problems. He will steal your dinner and run around your flat with the loo brush in his mouth just for starters.
    A loo brush for starters? What are you having for mains?
    So far one iPhone, umpteen pairs of glasses, my wallet and a pair of binoculars.
    You should have got an English Pointer, just saying.

    So far (9 years) six squirrels, three pheasants, a couple of moles, and numerous rats.

    No furniture, glasses, phones, clothes, shoes, or any other objects that don't resemble live game.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 19,918

    PM Trussticles is going to be fun

    Truss is a weirdo, an oddball and seems a bit loopy. Boris was arguably better than her. It’s not clear why the Tory members are so keen on her.
    She strokes their prejudices and they love her for it.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 107,147
    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    We're about to have an utter loon as PM. Or, at best, someone prepared to act like a loon because she thinks it will advance her career.

    TalkTV hustings:

    * Liz Truss says 'jury's out' on whether Macron is friend or foe; Sunak says he's a friend

    * Sunak says LizTruss would make a better PM than Johnson; Truss says Johnson

    * Truss says energy bills are 'massive issue' but 'bunging money' at system is not answer.


    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1562892217228079105

    Graham Brady better not book any holidays this winter.
    I’ve not seen evidence of Truss somehow surprising “on the upside”

    She needs the loons onboard to survive in post. Therefore, she’ll be a loon

    It is LOL.

    The membership are about to elect IDS mark II to the premiership. It will one hapless mishap and gaffe and on-the-hoof bonkers policy announcement after another.

    As the gaffes mount she will redouble her efforts by making up even more bonkers quiet bat people nonsense to sell.

    Meanwhile the wall of economic shit will pour over her useless Cabinet.

    I am convinced there will be a leadership election next summer.

    I’m starting to think she won’t take them into the election too. There will be like the coup against IDS, no member vote, and Wallace or Barclay, or someone similarly acceptable to most MPs will lead them into the general election.
    It would have to be Wallace by coronation a la Howard 2003 if she was replaced like IDS before the next election. We cannot have 2 leadership contests in 1 parliament
    That’s what I said, Wallace, or Barclay or such like in a coronation. Probably similar time of year, Nov 23.

    It’s like my Dad said right at the start, it’s not just the next election to worry about, Leave office having completely shredded your credibility on the economy - that credibility won’t be rebuilt quickly in opposition - lack of trust in you on economy, health, cost of living, can play even bigger five years after throwing away incumbency bonus, you can actually lose more seats not gain them in subsequent elections, five years time and in ten years time when people remember the wrong headed decisions made in the last years of the spell in power even without all the opposition parties reminding them.

    Which is why, HY, I said below about PR. Give Labour and Lib `dems and SNP votes control of the commons for the next 15 years, which the record of PM Truss will, there can be all sorts of changes and all sorts of mountains for Conservative politics to climb to enjoy power like this again.
    If the economy is as bad as that then there would be frequent changes of government. A Labour, LD and SNP government of high inflation and frequent strikes would swiftly see a swing back to the right, even under PR. Farage would also of course win dozens of seats with PR
    I guess you prefer to stick with the current Tory high inflation and frequent strikes.
    Is the high inflation across Europe and elsewhere 'Tory high inflation' or actually 'Putin's evil war' against Ukraine
    Inflation is 6.1% in France*. It's 8.8% in the UK; that's nearly half as much again.

    (*Yes France, the country roundly condemned by UK Tories as forever on the edge of catastrophe.)

    Inflation is 8.9% across the EU

    https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/documents/2995521/14644650/2-29072022-AP-EN.pdf/8b14d87f-df6c-aeb5-7dc9-40c60e4f6bc2#:~:text=Euro area annual inflation is,office of the European Union.
    Heavily slanted by the Baltic states all having >20% inflation.
    The Baltic states collectively are less than 1.4% of the EU population. Whatever effect they are having, it is not "heavily slanting" the EU figures.
    How are Eurozone inflation numbers calculated?

    Because the three largest EU/Eurozone states are Germany (7.5% inflation), France (6.1%) and Italy (7.9%). They are all well below the EU/Eurozone average, which is strange because they account for 210m of the 440m EZ population.
    Inflation is over 10% in Spain and the Netherlands
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 1,460
    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    We're about to have an utter loon as PM. Or, at best, someone prepared to act like a loon because she thinks it will advance her career.

    TalkTV hustings:

    * Liz Truss says 'jury's out' on whether Macron is friend or foe; Sunak says he's a friend

    * Sunak says LizTruss would make a better PM than Johnson; Truss says Johnson

    * Truss says energy bills are 'massive issue' but 'bunging money' at system is not answer.


    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1562892217228079105

    Graham Brady better not book any holidays this winter.
    I’ve not seen evidence of Truss somehow surprising “on the upside”

    She needs the loons onboard to survive in post. Therefore, she’ll be a loon

    It is LOL.

    The membership are about to elect IDS mark II to the premiership. It will one hapless mishap and gaffe and on-the-hoof bonkers policy announcement after another.

    As the gaffes mount she will redouble her efforts by making up even more bonkers quiet bat people nonsense to sell.

    Meanwhile the wall of economic shit will pour over her useless Cabinet.

    I am convinced there will be a leadership election next summer.

    I’m starting to think she won’t take them into the election too. There will be like the coup against IDS, no member vote, and Wallace or Barclay, or someone similarly acceptable to most MPs will lead them into the general election.
    It would have to be Wallace by coronation a la Howard 2003 if she was replaced like IDS before the next election. We cannot have 2 leadership contests in 1 parliament
    That’s what I said, Wallace, or Barclay or such like in a coronation. Probably similar time of year, Nov 23.

    It’s like my Dad said right at the start, it’s not just the next election to worry about, Leave office having completely shredded your credibility on the economy - that credibility won’t be rebuilt quickly in opposition - lack of trust in you on economy, health, cost of living, can play even bigger five years after throwing away incumbency bonus, you can actually lose more seats not gain them in subsequent elections, five years time and in ten years time when people remember the wrong headed decisions made in the last years of the spell in power even without all the opposition parties reminding them.

    Which is why, HY, I said below about PR. Give Labour and Lib `dems and SNP votes control of the commons for the next 15 years, which the record of PM Truss will, there can be all sorts of changes and all sorts of mountains for Conservative politics to climb to enjoy power like this again.
    If the economy is as bad as that then there would be frequent changes of government. A Labour, LD and SNP government of high inflation and frequent strikes would swiftly see a swing back to the right, even under PR. Farage would also of course win dozens of seats with PR
    I guess you prefer to stick with the current Tory high inflation and frequent strikes.
    Is the high inflation across Europe and elsewhere 'Tory high inflation' or actually 'Putin's evil war' against Ukraine
    Inflation is 6.1% in France*. It's 8.8% in the UK; that's nearly half as much again.

    (*Yes France, the country roundly condemned by UK Tories as forever on the edge of catastrophe.)

    Inflation is 8.9% across the EU

    https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/documents/2995521/14644650/2-29072022-AP-EN.pdf/8b14d87f-df6c-aeb5-7dc9-40c60e4f6bc2#:~:text=Euro area annual inflation is,office of the European Union.
    Heavily slanted by the Baltic states all having >20% inflation.
    The Baltic states collectively are less than 1.4% of the EU population. Whatever effect they are having, it is not "heavily slanting" the EU figures.
    How are Eurozone inflation numbers calculated?

    Because the three largest EU/Eurozone states are Germany (7.5% inflation), France (6.1%) and Italy (7.9%). They are all well below the EU/Eurozone average, which is strange because they account for 210m of the 440m EZ population.
    Is is really possible they are just adding them up and dividing by 27?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 24,592

    PM Trussticles is going to be fun

    Truss is a weirdo, an oddball and seems a bit loopy. Boris was arguably better than her. It’s not clear why the Tory members are so keen on her.
    Because they can't have Boris?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 24,592
    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    We're about to have an utter loon as PM. Or, at best, someone prepared to act like a loon because she thinks it will advance her career.

    TalkTV hustings:

    * Liz Truss says 'jury's out' on whether Macron is friend or foe; Sunak says he's a friend

    * Sunak says LizTruss would make a better PM than Johnson; Truss says Johnson

    * Truss says energy bills are 'massive issue' but 'bunging money' at system is not answer.


    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1562892217228079105

    Graham Brady better not book any holidays this winter.
    I’ve not seen evidence of Truss somehow surprising “on the upside”

    She needs the loons onboard to survive in post. Therefore, she’ll be a loon

    It is LOL.

    The membership are about to elect IDS mark II to the premiership. It will one hapless mishap and gaffe and on-the-hoof bonkers policy announcement after another.

    As the gaffes mount she will redouble her efforts by making up even more bonkers quiet bat people nonsense to sell.

    Meanwhile the wall of economic shit will pour over her useless Cabinet.

    I am convinced there will be a leadership election next summer.

    I’m starting to think she won’t take them into the election too. There will be like the coup against IDS, no member vote, and Wallace or Barclay, or someone similarly acceptable to most MPs will lead them into the general election.
    It would have to be Wallace by coronation a la Howard 2003 if she was replaced like IDS before the next election. We cannot have 2 leadership contests in 1 parliament
    That’s what I said, Wallace, or Barclay or such like in a coronation. Probably similar time of year, Nov 23.

    It’s like my Dad said right at the start, it’s not just the next election to worry about, Leave office having completely shredded your credibility on the economy - that credibility won’t be rebuilt quickly in opposition - lack of trust in you on economy, health, cost of living, can play even bigger five years after throwing away incumbency bonus, you can actually lose more seats not gain them in subsequent elections, five years time and in ten years time when people remember the wrong headed decisions made in the last years of the spell in power even without all the opposition parties reminding them.

    Which is why, HY, I said below about PR. Give Labour and Lib `dems and SNP votes control of the commons for the next 15 years, which the record of PM Truss will, there can be all sorts of changes and all sorts of mountains for Conservative politics to climb to enjoy power like this again.
    If the economy is as bad as that then there would be frequent changes of government. A Labour, LD and SNP government of high inflation and frequent strikes would swiftly see a swing back to the right, even under PR. Farage would also of course win dozens of seats with PR
    I guess you prefer to stick with the current Tory high inflation and frequent strikes.
    Is the high inflation across Europe and elsewhere 'Tory high inflation' or actually 'Putin's evil war' against Ukraine
    Inflation is 6.1% in France*. It's 8.8% in the UK; that's nearly half as much again.

    (*Yes France, the country roundly condemned by UK Tories as forever on the edge of catastrophe.)

    Inflation is 8.9% across the EU

    https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/documents/2995521/14644650/2-29072022-AP-EN.pdf/8b14d87f-df6c-aeb5-7dc9-40c60e4f6bc2#:~:text=Euro area annual inflation is,office of the European Union.
    Heavily slanted by the Baltic states all having >20% inflation.
    The Baltic states collectively are less than 1.4% of the EU population. Whatever effect they are having, it is not "heavily slanting" the EU figures.
    How are Eurozone inflation numbers calculated?

    Because the three largest EU/Eurozone states are Germany (7.5% inflation), France (6.1%) and Italy (7.9%). They are all well below the EU/Eurozone average, which is strange because they account for 210m of the 440m EZ population.
    Germany is 8.5% and Italy is 8.9%

    https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/documents/2995521/14644650/2-29072022-AP-EN.pdf/8b14d87f-df6c-aeb5-7dc9-40c60e4f6bc2#:~:text=Euro area annual inflation is,office of the European Union
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 48,955

    rcs1000 said:

    murali_s said:

    Well done that woman. Nothing works in this country. As I keep saying, the Tories are turning this country into a stinking latrine.

    You seem to miss the point that Labour in Wales has been in power longer than the conservatives and ambulance services here are just as appalling
    You miss the point that your point is essentially a non-sequitur.
    Surely it implies that something other than political choices might be at play? I.e. covid stress on hospitals?
    The criticism is that “nothing works”.
    That’s entirely on the government of 12 years, much of which was spent delivering austerity aka failing to mend the roof.

    What Labour in Wales is doing (I am no fan) is really neither here nor there.

    At core, I am merely highlighting again BigG’s incessant Tory apologism.

    If Wales did not have the SAME issues the criticism would be fair.
    Nothing works in Wales either, but they don’t work for different reasons.
    And they are?
    The Welsh are fundamentally lazy and thick.
    That is straightforward racism and you should be banned.
    Yeah, but if we ban TSE for racism, then we'd have to ban @Leon too. And where would it end? Would we start banning posters for their laughably lazy tropes about Remainer skiiers?
    I don't think being a Remainer or being a skiier is a protected characteristic under the Equality Act. That is the difference.
    Ah, so lazy stereotyping is OK, just so long as it's the right kind of stereotyping.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 24,592
    carnforth said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    We're about to have an utter loon as PM. Or, at best, someone prepared to act like a loon because she thinks it will advance her career.

    TalkTV hustings:

    * Liz Truss says 'jury's out' on whether Macron is friend or foe; Sunak says he's a friend

    * Sunak says LizTruss would make a better PM than Johnson; Truss says Johnson

    * Truss says energy bills are 'massive issue' but 'bunging money' at system is not answer.


    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1562892217228079105

    Graham Brady better not book any holidays this winter.
    I’ve not seen evidence of Truss somehow surprising “on the upside”

    She needs the loons onboard to survive in post. Therefore, she’ll be a loon

    It is LOL.

    The membership are about to elect IDS mark II to the premiership. It will one hapless mishap and gaffe and on-the-hoof bonkers policy announcement after another.

    As the gaffes mount she will redouble her efforts by making up even more bonkers quiet bat people nonsense to sell.

    Meanwhile the wall of economic shit will pour over her useless Cabinet.

    I am convinced there will be a leadership election next summer.

    I’m starting to think she won’t take them into the election too. There will be like the coup against IDS, no member vote, and Wallace or Barclay, or someone similarly acceptable to most MPs will lead them into the general election.
    It would have to be Wallace by coronation a la Howard 2003 if she was replaced like IDS before the next election. We cannot have 2 leadership contests in 1 parliament
    That’s what I said, Wallace, or Barclay or such like in a coronation. Probably similar time of year, Nov 23.

    It’s like my Dad said right at the start, it’s not just the next election to worry about, Leave office having completely shredded your credibility on the economy - that credibility won’t be rebuilt quickly in opposition - lack of trust in you on economy, health, cost of living, can play even bigger five years after throwing away incumbency bonus, you can actually lose more seats not gain them in subsequent elections, five years time and in ten years time when people remember the wrong headed decisions made in the last years of the spell in power even without all the opposition parties reminding them.

    Which is why, HY, I said below about PR. Give Labour and Lib `dems and SNP votes control of the commons for the next 15 years, which the record of PM Truss will, there can be all sorts of changes and all sorts of mountains for Conservative politics to climb to enjoy power like this again.
    If the economy is as bad as that then there would be frequent changes of government. A Labour, LD and SNP government of high inflation and frequent strikes would swiftly see a swing back to the right, even under PR. Farage would also of course win dozens of seats with PR
    I guess you prefer to stick with the current Tory high inflation and frequent strikes.
    Is the high inflation across Europe and elsewhere 'Tory high inflation' or actually 'Putin's evil war' against Ukraine
    Inflation is 6.1% in France*. It's 8.8% in the UK; that's nearly half as much again.

    (*Yes France, the country roundly condemned by UK Tories as forever on the edge of catastrophe.)

    Inflation is 8.9% across the EU

    https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/documents/2995521/14644650/2-29072022-AP-EN.pdf/8b14d87f-df6c-aeb5-7dc9-40c60e4f6bc2#:~:text=Euro area annual inflation is,office of the European Union.
    Heavily slanted by the Baltic states all having >20% inflation.
    The Baltic states collectively are less than 1.4% of the EU population. Whatever effect they are having, it is not "heavily slanting" the EU figures.
    How are Eurozone inflation numbers calculated?

    Because the three largest EU/Eurozone states are Germany (7.5% inflation), France (6.1%) and Italy (7.9%). They are all well below the EU/Eurozone average, which is strange because they account for 210m of the 440m EZ population.
    Is is really possible they are just adding them up and dividing by 27?
    No

    https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/documents/2995521/14644650/2-29072022-AP-EN.pdf/8b14d87f-df6c-aeb5-7dc9-40c60e4f6bc2#:~:text=Euro area annual inflation is,office of the European Union
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 15,467
    ….
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 18,992

    nico679 said:

    nico679 said:

    Wow even the DT is admitting the truth .

    A record 1.2 million visas issued , immigration from the EU has collapsed and been replaced by a large spike in non EU immigration . 1.12 million non EU nationals is a record up 70% on pre Brexit levels . So that means only 80,000 visas were issued to EU nationals .

    Good to see immigration from around the world
    Leavers didn’t vote for 1.12 million visas a year issued . Anyway at least we’ll not have to worry about not being able to find a good curry ! Patel actually told the truth for once , she said vote Brexit and we can ship in more curry chefs .
    Why are you so upset about people's from across the world are being welcomed into the UK
    Don't you recall the "Breaking Point" billboards? Oh and the "Turkey is joining the EU" poster. If you do the irony should not be lost on you.

    You were enlightened enough not to worry about such nonsense and voted Remain, plenty were concerned about this nonsense, and as such voted Leave.

    Now many people had perfectly respectable reasons for voting Leave but plenty of others did so because they wanted Eastern Europeans to go home. Nigel Farage and Boris Johnson sold this narrative, and they were right, the Eastern Europeans left. Well done Nigel, well done Boris. What Nigel Farage failed to tell us was that we would have to replace these people from further afield. In all fairness Boris Johnson realised the potential problem at the time and did suggest we could bring in our friends from the Indian subcontinent to cover any shortfalls. So to be fair, in this instance Boris Johnson at least partially told the truth, and on this point, at least, is no racist bigot.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 24,592
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    murali_s said:

    Well done that woman. Nothing works in this country. As I keep saying, the Tories are turning this country into a stinking latrine.

    You seem to miss the point that Labour in Wales has been in power longer than the conservatives and ambulance services here are just as appalling
    You miss the point that your point is essentially a non-sequitur.
    Surely it implies that something other than political choices might be at play? I.e. covid stress on hospitals?
    The criticism is that “nothing works”.
    That’s entirely on the government of 12 years, much of which was spent delivering austerity aka failing to mend the roof.

    What Labour in Wales is doing (I am no fan) is really neither here nor there.

    At core, I am merely highlighting again BigG’s incessant Tory apologism.

    If Wales did not have the SAME issues the criticism would be fair.
    Nothing works in Wales either, but they don’t work for different reasons.
    And they are?
    The Welsh are fundamentally lazy and thick.
    That is straightforward racism and you should be banned.
    Yeah, but if we ban TSE for racism, then we'd have to ban @Leon too. And where would it end? Would we start banning posters for their laughably lazy tropes about Remainer skiiers?
    I don't think being a Remainer or being a skiier is a protected characteristic under the Equality Act. That is the difference.
    Ah, so lazy stereotyping is OK, just so long as it's the right kind of stereotyping.
    The law is the law:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equality_Act_2010#cite_note-31
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 1,460

    carnforth said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    We're about to have an utter loon as PM. Or, at best, someone prepared to act like a loon because she thinks it will advance her career.

    TalkTV hustings:

    * Liz Truss says 'jury's out' on whether Macron is friend or foe; Sunak says he's a friend

    * Sunak says LizTruss would make a better PM than Johnson; Truss says Johnson

    * Truss says energy bills are 'massive issue' but 'bunging money' at system is not answer.


    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1562892217228079105

    Graham Brady better not book any holidays this winter.
    I’ve not seen evidence of Truss somehow surprising “on the upside”

    She needs the loons onboard to survive in post. Therefore, she’ll be a loon

    It is LOL.

    The membership are about to elect IDS mark II to the premiership. It will one hapless mishap and gaffe and on-the-hoof bonkers policy announcement after another.

    As the gaffes mount she will redouble her efforts by making up even more bonkers quiet bat people nonsense to sell.

    Meanwhile the wall of economic shit will pour over her useless Cabinet.

    I am convinced there will be a leadership election next summer.

    I’m starting to think she won’t take them into the election too. There will be like the coup against IDS, no member vote, and Wallace or Barclay, or someone similarly acceptable to most MPs will lead them into the general election.
    It would have to be Wallace by coronation a la Howard 2003 if she was replaced like IDS before the next election. We cannot have 2 leadership contests in 1 parliament
    That’s what I said, Wallace, or Barclay or such like in a coronation. Probably similar time of year, Nov 23.

    It’s like my Dad said right at the start, it’s not just the next election to worry about, Leave office having completely shredded your credibility on the economy - that credibility won’t be rebuilt quickly in opposition - lack of trust in you on economy, health, cost of living, can play even bigger five years after throwing away incumbency bonus, you can actually lose more seats not gain them in subsequent elections, five years time and in ten years time when people remember the wrong headed decisions made in the last years of the spell in power even without all the opposition parties reminding them.

    Which is why, HY, I said below about PR. Give Labour and Lib `dems and SNP votes control of the commons for the next 15 years, which the record of PM Truss will, there can be all sorts of changes and all sorts of mountains for Conservative politics to climb to enjoy power like this again.
    If the economy is as bad as that then there would be frequent changes of government. A Labour, LD and SNP government of high inflation and frequent strikes would swiftly see a swing back to the right, even under PR. Farage would also of course win dozens of seats with PR
    I guess you prefer to stick with the current Tory high inflation and frequent strikes.
    Is the high inflation across Europe and elsewhere 'Tory high inflation' or actually 'Putin's evil war' against Ukraine
    Inflation is 6.1% in France*. It's 8.8% in the UK; that's nearly half as much again.

    (*Yes France, the country roundly condemned by UK Tories as forever on the edge of catastrophe.)

    Inflation is 8.9% across the EU

    https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/documents/2995521/14644650/2-29072022-AP-EN.pdf/8b14d87f-df6c-aeb5-7dc9-40c60e4f6bc2#:~:text=Euro area annual inflation is,office of the European Union.
    Heavily slanted by the Baltic states all having >20% inflation.
    The Baltic states collectively are less than 1.4% of the EU population. Whatever effect they are having, it is not "heavily slanting" the EU figures.
    How are Eurozone inflation numbers calculated?

    Because the three largest EU/Eurozone states are Germany (7.5% inflation), France (6.1%) and Italy (7.9%). They are all well below the EU/Eurozone average, which is strange because they account for 210m of the 440m EZ population.
    Is is really possible they are just adding them up and dividing by 27?
    No

    https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/documents/2995521/14644650/2-29072022-AP-EN.pdf/8b14d87f-df6c-aeb5-7dc9-40c60e4f6bc2#:~:text=Euro area annual inflation is,office of the European Union
    Then your comment about the baltics heavily distorting the figure is indeed wrong.

    The methodology section in the PDF you link does not say how the headline figure is calculated, however.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 5,752
    Jonathan said:

    I started the 1970s living in a house with no central heating and a little black and white telly. I ended it living in one with central heating and a slightly larger colour one. My wife’s family got their first inside toilet in the 1970s. It was actually a decade in which the standard of living for most ordinary people improved dramatically.

    Luxury. We started the 70s in a septic tank in a lake.
    In a lake? Luxury. Our septic tank was in a puddle.
  • Red Arrows in Sidmouth tomorrow. I am really looking forward to it. They were brilliant last year. I just hope they’re sober.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 24,592
    carnforth said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    We're about to have an utter loon as PM. Or, at best, someone prepared to act like a loon because she thinks it will advance her career.

    TalkTV hustings:

    * Liz Truss says 'jury's out' on whether Macron is friend or foe; Sunak says he's a friend

    * Sunak says LizTruss would make a better PM than Johnson; Truss says Johnson

    * Truss says energy bills are 'massive issue' but 'bunging money' at system is not answer.


    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1562892217228079105

    Graham Brady better not book any holidays this winter.
    I’ve not seen evidence of Truss somehow surprising “on the upside”

    She needs the loons onboard to survive in post. Therefore, she’ll be a loon

    It is LOL.

    The membership are about to elect IDS mark II to the premiership. It will one hapless mishap and gaffe and on-the-hoof bonkers policy announcement after another.

    As the gaffes mount she will redouble her efforts by making up even more bonkers quiet bat people nonsense to sell.

    Meanwhile the wall of economic shit will pour over her useless Cabinet.

    I am convinced there will be a leadership election next summer.

    I’m starting to think she won’t take them into the election too. There will be like the coup against IDS, no member vote, and Wallace or Barclay, or someone similarly acceptable to most MPs will lead them into the general election.
    It would have to be Wallace by coronation a la Howard 2003 if she was replaced like IDS before the next election. We cannot have 2 leadership contests in 1 parliament
    That’s what I said, Wallace, or Barclay or such like in a coronation. Probably similar time of year, Nov 23.

    It’s like my Dad said right at the start, it’s not just the next election to worry about, Leave office having completely shredded your credibility on the economy - that credibility won’t be rebuilt quickly in opposition - lack of trust in you on economy, health, cost of living, can play even bigger five years after throwing away incumbency bonus, you can actually lose more seats not gain them in subsequent elections, five years time and in ten years time when people remember the wrong headed decisions made in the last years of the spell in power even without all the opposition parties reminding them.

    Which is why, HY, I said below about PR. Give Labour and Lib `dems and SNP votes control of the commons for the next 15 years, which the record of PM Truss will, there can be all sorts of changes and all sorts of mountains for Conservative politics to climb to enjoy power like this again.
    If the economy is as bad as that then there would be frequent changes of government. A Labour, LD and SNP government of high inflation and frequent strikes would swiftly see a swing back to the right, even under PR. Farage would also of course win dozens of seats with PR
    I guess you prefer to stick with the current Tory high inflation and frequent strikes.
    Is the high inflation across Europe and elsewhere 'Tory high inflation' or actually 'Putin's evil war' against Ukraine
    Inflation is 6.1% in France*. It's 8.8% in the UK; that's nearly half as much again.

    (*Yes France, the country roundly condemned by UK Tories as forever on the edge of catastrophe.)

    It is a lot higher in other European countries and especially in the Baltic states
    So you think Latvias, Lithuania and Estonia are appropriate comparitors rather than France?
    They are not. But France is a poor compar-tor because of Nuclear energy, when so much of our inflation is due to energy costs.
    France also owns its national electricity company so can and has controlled retail electricity prices.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 43,306

    carnforth said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    We're about to have an utter loon as PM. Or, at best, someone prepared to act like a loon because she thinks it will advance her career.

    TalkTV hustings:

    * Liz Truss says 'jury's out' on whether Macron is friend or foe; Sunak says he's a friend

    * Sunak says LizTruss would make a better PM than Johnson; Truss says Johnson

    * Truss says energy bills are 'massive issue' but 'bunging money' at system is not answer.


    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1562892217228079105

    Graham Brady better not book any holidays this winter.
    I’ve not seen evidence of Truss somehow surprising “on the upside”

    She needs the loons onboard to survive in post. Therefore, she’ll be a loon

    It is LOL.

    The membership are about to elect IDS mark II to the premiership. It will one hapless mishap and gaffe and on-the-hoof bonkers policy announcement after another.

    As the gaffes mount she will redouble her efforts by making up even more bonkers quiet bat people nonsense to sell.

    Meanwhile the wall of economic shit will pour over her useless Cabinet.

    I am convinced there will be a leadership election next summer.

    I’m starting to think she won’t take them into the election too. There will be like the coup against IDS, no member vote, and Wallace or Barclay, or someone similarly acceptable to most MPs will lead them into the general election.
    It would have to be Wallace by coronation a la Howard 2003 if she was replaced like IDS before the next election. We cannot have 2 leadership contests in 1 parliament
    That’s what I said, Wallace, or Barclay or such like in a coronation. Probably similar time of year, Nov 23.

    It’s like my Dad said right at the start, it’s not just the next election to worry about, Leave office having completely shredded your credibility on the economy - that credibility won’t be rebuilt quickly in opposition - lack of trust in you on economy, health, cost of living, can play even bigger five years after throwing away incumbency bonus, you can actually lose more seats not gain them in subsequent elections, five years time and in ten years time when people remember the wrong headed decisions made in the last years of the spell in power even without all the opposition parties reminding them.

    Which is why, HY, I said below about PR. Give Labour and Lib `dems and SNP votes control of the commons for the next 15 years, which the record of PM Truss will, there can be all sorts of changes and all sorts of mountains for Conservative politics to climb to enjoy power like this again.
    If the economy is as bad as that then there would be frequent changes of government. A Labour, LD and SNP government of high inflation and frequent strikes would swiftly see a swing back to the right, even under PR. Farage would also of course win dozens of seats with PR
    I guess you prefer to stick with the current Tory high inflation and frequent strikes.
    Is the high inflation across Europe and elsewhere 'Tory high inflation' or actually 'Putin's evil war' against Ukraine
    Inflation is 6.1% in France*. It's 8.8% in the UK; that's nearly half as much again.

    (*Yes France, the country roundly condemned by UK Tories as forever on the edge of catastrophe.)

    It is a lot higher in other European countries and especially in the Baltic states
    So you think Latvias, Lithuania and Estonia are appropriate comparitors rather than France?
    They are not. But France is a poor compar-tor because of Nuclear energy, when so much of our inflation is due to energy costs.
    France also owns its national electricity company so can and has controlled retail electricity prices.
    If they nationalised everything, they could control all the prices, and everyone could be rich.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 15,467
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    murali_s said:

    Well done that woman. Nothing works in this country. As I keep saying, the Tories are turning this country into a stinking latrine.

    You seem to miss the point that Labour in Wales has been in power longer than the conservatives and ambulance services here are just as appalling
    You miss the point that your point is essentially a non-sequitur.
    Surely it implies that something other than political choices might be at play? I.e. covid stress on hospitals?
    The criticism is that “nothing works”.
    That’s entirely on the government of 12 years, much of which was spent delivering austerity aka failing to mend the roof.

    What Labour in Wales is doing (I am no fan) is really neither here nor there.

    At core, I am merely highlighting again BigG’s incessant Tory apologism.

    If Wales did not have the SAME issues the criticism would be fair.
    Nothing works in Wales either, but they don’t work for different reasons.
    And they are?
    The Welsh are fundamentally lazy and thick.
    That is straightforward racism and you should be banned.
    Yeah, but if we ban TSE for racism, then we'd have to ban @Leon too. And where would it end? Would we start banning posters for their laughably lazy tropes about Remainer skiiers?
    I don't think being a Remainer or being a skiier is a protected characteristic under the Equality Act. That is the difference.
    Ah, so lazy stereotyping is OK, just so long as it's the right kind of stereotyping.


    If Eagles had any sense he’d just apologise for a moronic and unfunny post, rather than hide behind you.

  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 24,592

    carnforth said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    We're about to have an utter loon as PM. Or, at best, someone prepared to act like a loon because she thinks it will advance her career.

    TalkTV hustings:

    * Liz Truss says 'jury's out' on whether Macron is friend or foe; Sunak says he's a friend

    * Sunak says LizTruss would make a better PM than Johnson; Truss says Johnson

    * Truss says energy bills are 'massive issue' but 'bunging money' at system is not answer.


    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1562892217228079105

    Graham Brady better not book any holidays this winter.
    I’ve not seen evidence of Truss somehow surprising “on the upside”

    She needs the loons onboard to survive in post. Therefore, she’ll be a loon

    It is LOL.

    The membership are about to elect IDS mark II to the premiership. It will one hapless mishap and gaffe and on-the-hoof bonkers policy announcement after another.

    As the gaffes mount she will redouble her efforts by making up even more bonkers quiet bat people nonsense to sell.

    Meanwhile the wall of economic shit will pour over her useless Cabinet.

    I am convinced there will be a leadership election next summer.

    I’m starting to think she won’t take them into the election too. There will be like the coup against IDS, no member vote, and Wallace or Barclay, or someone similarly acceptable to most MPs will lead them into the general election.
    It would have to be Wallace by coronation a la Howard 2003 if she was replaced like IDS before the next election. We cannot have 2 leadership contests in 1 parliament
    That’s what I said, Wallace, or Barclay or such like in a coronation. Probably similar time of year, Nov 23.

    It’s like my Dad said right at the start, it’s not just the next election to worry about, Leave office having completely shredded your credibility on the economy - that credibility won’t be rebuilt quickly in opposition - lack of trust in you on economy, health, cost of living, can play even bigger five years after throwing away incumbency bonus, you can actually lose more seats not gain them in subsequent elections, five years time and in ten years time when people remember the wrong headed decisions made in the last years of the spell in power even without all the opposition parties reminding them.

    Which is why, HY, I said below about PR. Give Labour and Lib `dems and SNP votes control of the commons for the next 15 years, which the record of PM Truss will, there can be all sorts of changes and all sorts of mountains for Conservative politics to climb to enjoy power like this again.
    If the economy is as bad as that then there would be frequent changes of government. A Labour, LD and SNP government of high inflation and frequent strikes would swiftly see a swing back to the right, even under PR. Farage would also of course win dozens of seats with PR
    I guess you prefer to stick with the current Tory high inflation and frequent strikes.
    Is the high inflation across Europe and elsewhere 'Tory high inflation' or actually 'Putin's evil war' against Ukraine
    Inflation is 6.1% in France*. It's 8.8% in the UK; that's nearly half as much again.

    (*Yes France, the country roundly condemned by UK Tories as forever on the edge of catastrophe.)

    It is a lot higher in other European countries and especially in the Baltic states
    So you think Latvias, Lithuania and Estonia are appropriate comparitors rather than France?
    They are not. But France is a poor compar-tor because of Nuclear energy, when so much of our inflation is due to energy costs.
    France also owns its national electricity company so can and has controlled retail electricity prices.
    If they nationalised everything, they could control all the prices, and everyone could be rich.
    Absurd failure to engage with the argument.

    Electricity supply is a de facto monopoly and should be managed as such.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 20,393

    Red Arrows in Sidmouth tomorrow. I am really looking forward to it. They were brilliant last year. I just hope they’re sober.

    I thought they were going to be in Clacton.
  • rcs1000 said:

    murali_s said:

    Well done that woman. Nothing works in this country. As I keep saying, the Tories are turning this country into a stinking latrine.

    You seem to miss the point that Labour in Wales has been in power longer than the conservatives and ambulance services here are just as appalling
    You miss the point that your point is essentially a non-sequitur.
    Surely it implies that something other than political choices might be at play? I.e. covid stress on hospitals?
    The criticism is that “nothing works”.
    That’s entirely on the government of 12 years, much of which was spent delivering austerity aka failing to mend the roof.

    What Labour in Wales is doing (I am no fan) is really neither here nor there.

    At core, I am merely highlighting again BigG’s incessant Tory apologism.

    If Wales did not have the SAME issues the criticism would be fair.
    Nothing works in Wales either, but they don’t work for different reasons.
    And they are?
    The Welsh are fundamentally lazy and thick.
    That is straightforward racism and you should be banned.
    Yeah, but if we ban TSE for racism, then we'd have to ban @Leon too. And where would it end? Would we start banning posters for their laughably lazy tropes about Remainer skiiers?
    I don't think being a Remainer or being a skiier is a protected characteristic under the Equality Act. That is the difference.
    Is being Welsh though? Genuine question. And what about English?
    Racism can manifest itself as a belief in racial inferiority or racial superiority.

    A statement that the Welsh are fundamentally

    lazy and thick is very clearly racist. As would be a statement that the English or Irish are

    fundamentally lazy and thick.
    Yep. It was a moronic post.
    Leaving aside this specific instance, it never fails to astonish me that PBers indulge in this type of allegedly humorous pseudo-racist banter that, if it were to leak from PB into the real world might prove damaging (and we have seen this sort of thing before).
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 24,592
    So, new energy price cap announced tomorrow? Or will HMG intervene?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 24,592
    Andy_JS said:

    Red Arrows in Sidmouth tomorrow. I am really looking forward to it. They were brilliant last year. I just hope they’re sober.

    I thought they were going to be in Clacton.
    Can't they do both?
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 1,816
    Have we done this?

    https://twitter.com/POLITlCSUK/status/1562744795147419655

    NEW: Voting intention in 18-24 year olds:

    LAB: 63% (+10)
    LIBDEM: 14% (+7)
    CON: 13% (-12)
    SNP: 4% (+1)
    RFM: 2% (-3)
    GRN: 1% (-6)

    Via @Kantar_UKI
    , 18-22 August

    Changes w/28th July
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 24,592

    Jonathan said:

    I started the 1970s living in a house with no central heating and a little black and white telly. I ended it living in one with central heating and a slightly larger colour one. My wife’s family got their first inside toilet in the 1970s. It was actually a decade in which the standard of living for most ordinary people improved dramatically.

    Luxury. We started the 70s in a septic tank in a lake.
    In a lake? Luxury. Our septic tank was in a puddle.
    In 1976 our puddle completely dried up.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 19,918

    Andy_JS said:

    Red Arrows in Sidmouth tomorrow. I am really looking forward to it. They were brilliant last year. I just hope they’re sober.

    I thought they were going to be in Clacton.
    Can't they do both?
    In one day? Public transport between Clacton and Sidmoth would take ages.
  • Jonathan said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Red Arrows in Sidmouth tomorrow. I am really looking forward to it. They were brilliant last year. I just hope they’re sober.

    I thought they were going to be in Clacton.
    Can't they do both?
    In one day? Public transport between Clacton and Sidmoth would take ages.
    You’re on fire tonight!

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 107,147
    CatMan said:

    Have we done this?

    https://twitter.com/POLITlCSUK/status/1562744795147419655

    NEW: Voting intention in 18-24 year olds:

    LAB: 63% (+10)
    LIBDEM: 14% (+7)
    CON: 13% (-12)
    SNP: 4% (+1)
    RFM: 2% (-3)
    GRN: 1% (-6)

    Via @Kantar_UKI
    , 18-22 August

    Changes w/28th July

    Labour always win under 30s, it is 45 to 65s who win elections
  • LeonLeon Posts: 30,484
    The UK is in the low-middle of the pack for inflation rates in Europe. Less than Spain, Holland, Belgium; more than France, Germany, Italy

    Much lower than Eastern Europe
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 24,592
    CatMan said:

    Have we done this?

    https://twitter.com/POLITlCSUK/status/1562744795147419655

    NEW: Voting intention in 18-24 year olds:

    LAB: 63% (+10)
    LIBDEM: 14% (+7)
    CON: 13% (-12)
    SNP: 4% (+1)
    RFM: 2% (-3)
    GRN: 1% (-6)

    Via @Kantar_UKI
    , 18-22 August

    Changes w/28th July

    Green @ 1% is the most surprising element of this poll imo.

    (Well, that and the Tories getting as many as 13%)
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 24,592
    Leon said:

    The UK is in the low-middle of the pack for inflation rates in Europe. Less than Spain, Holland, Belgium; more than France, Germany, Italy

    Much lower than Eastern Europe

    Excellent. UK is faring better than Eastern Europe. Sound the trumpets!
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 19,918

    Jonathan said:

    I started the 1970s living in a house with no central heating and a little black and white telly. I ended it living in one with central heating and a slightly larger colour one. My wife’s family got their first inside toilet in the 1970s. It was actually a decade in which the standard of living for most ordinary people improved dramatically.

    Luxury. We started the 70s in a septic tank in a lake.
    In a lake? Luxury. Our septic tank was in a puddle.
    In 1976 our puddle completely dried up.
    You were lucky. We dreamed of a dried up puddle. We had to get by living in Maggie Thatcher's handbag.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 24,592
    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    I started the 1970s living in a house with no central heating and a little black and white telly. I ended it living in one with central heating and a slightly larger colour one. My wife’s family got their first inside toilet in the 1970s. It was actually a decade in which the standard of living for most ordinary people improved dramatically.

    Luxury. We started the 70s in a septic tank in a lake.
    In a lake? Luxury. Our septic tank was in a puddle.
    In 1976 our puddle completely dried up.
    You were lucky. We dreamed of a dried up puddle. We had to get by living in Maggie Thatcher's handbag.
    A handbag!!?

    (Oh, sorry - wrong script.)
  • LeonLeon Posts: 30,484

    Leon said:

    The UK is in the low-middle of the pack for inflation rates in Europe. Less than Spain, Holland, Belgium; more than France, Germany, Italy

    Much lower than Eastern Europe

    Excellent. UK is faring better than Eastern Europe. Sound the trumpets!
    Mate, the whole world is in the toilet. We’re just bickering about who is further along the U-bend
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 43,306
    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    I started the 1970s living in a house with no central heating and a little black and white telly. I ended it living in one with central heating and a slightly larger colour one. My wife’s family got their first inside toilet in the 1970s. It was actually a decade in which the standard of living for most ordinary people improved dramatically.

    Luxury. We started the 70s in a septic tank in a lake.
    In a lake? Luxury. Our septic tank was in a puddle.
    In 1976 our puddle completely dried up.
    You were lucky. We dreamed of a dried up puddle. We had to get by living in Maggie Thatcher's handbag.
    In a handbag? Luxury! I had to live in Bracknell.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 107,147

    Leon said:

    The UK is in the low-middle of the pack for inflation rates in Europe. Less than Spain, Holland, Belgium; more than France, Germany, Italy

    Much lower than Eastern Europe

    Excellent. UK is faring better than Eastern Europe. Sound the trumpets!
    When were Spain and the Benelux nations in Eastern Europe?
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 9,028

    nico679 said:

    nico679 said:

    Wow even the DT is admitting the truth .

    A record 1.2 million visas issued , immigration from the EU has collapsed and been replaced by a large spike in non EU immigration . 1.12 million non EU nationals is a record up 70% on pre Brexit levels . So that means only 80,000 visas were issued to EU nationals .

    Good to see immigration from around the world
    Leavers didn’t vote for 1.12 million visas a year issued . Anyway at least we’ll not have to worry about not being able to find a good curry ! Patel actually told the truth for once , she said vote Brexit and we can ship in more curry chefs .
    Wrong on many levels. Visas issued means we have control over who comes.
    Wrong in the key aspect - the Tory manifestos promised to reduce from too high immigration - so you are suggesting there actually is a control mechanism, but those who promised to use one are making the conscious decision not to use one, even though that trashes key promises to the electorate?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 18,992
    HYUFD said:

    CatMan said:

    Have we done this?

    https://twitter.com/POLITlCSUK/status/1562744795147419655

    NEW: Voting intention in 18-24 year olds:

    LAB: 63% (+10)
    LIBDEM: 14% (+7)
    CON: 13% (-12)
    SNP: 4% (+1)
    RFM: 2% (-3)
    GRN: 1% (-6)

    Via @Kantar_UKI
    , 18-22 August

    Changes w/28th July

    Labour always win under 30s, it is 45 to 65s who win elections
    You could always raise the voting age to 30 to even things up.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 107,147

    nico679 said:

    nico679 said:

    Wow even the DT is admitting the truth .

    A record 1.2 million visas issued , immigration from the EU has collapsed and been replaced by a large spike in non EU immigration . 1.12 million non EU nationals is a record up 70% on pre Brexit levels . So that means only 80,000 visas were issued to EU nationals .

    Good to see immigration from around the world
    Leavers didn’t vote for 1.12 million visas a year issued . Anyway at least we’ll not have to worry about not being able to find a good curry ! Patel actually told the truth for once , she said vote Brexit and we can ship in more curry chefs .
    Wrong on many levels. Visas issued means we have control over who comes.
    Wrong in the key aspect - the Tory manifestos promised to reduce from too high immigration - so you are suggesting there actually is a control mechanism, but those who promised to use one are making the conscious decision not to use one, even though that trashes key promises to the electorate?
    EU immigration has fallen now free movement has ended
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 24,592
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The UK is in the low-middle of the pack for inflation rates in Europe. Less than Spain, Holland, Belgium; more than France, Germany, Italy

    Much lower than Eastern Europe

    Excellent. UK is faring better than Eastern Europe. Sound the trumpets!
    Mate, the whole world is in the toilet. We’re just bickering about who is further along the U-bend
    Fair point. I concede.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 55,103
    Stewart Wood
    @StewartWood
    What a staggering remark from our Foreign Secretary, let alone from the very likely next Prime Minister. #LizTruss
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 20,393
    18-24s always start off very anti-Tory and always end up being very strongly Tory about 35 years later.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 107,147

    CatMan said:

    Have we done this?

    https://twitter.com/POLITlCSUK/status/1562744795147419655

    NEW: Voting intention in 18-24 year olds:

    LAB: 63% (+10)
    LIBDEM: 14% (+7)
    CON: 13% (-12)
    SNP: 4% (+1)
    RFM: 2% (-3)
    GRN: 1% (-6)

    Via @Kantar_UKI
    , 18-22 August

    Changes w/28th July

    Green @ 1% is the most surprising element of this poll imo.

    (Well, that and the Tories getting as many as 13%)
    Indeed, only Harry Enfield Tory Boys vote Tory in their teens and early 20s
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 55,103

    CatMan said:

    Have we done this?

    https://twitter.com/POLITlCSUK/status/1562744795147419655

    NEW: Voting intention in 18-24 year olds:

    LAB: 63% (+10)
    LIBDEM: 14% (+7)
    CON: 13% (-12)
    SNP: 4% (+1)
    RFM: 2% (-3)
    GRN: 1% (-6)

    Via @Kantar_UKI
    , 18-22 August

    Changes w/28th July

    Green @ 1% is the most surprising element of this poll imo.

    (Well, that and the Tories getting as many as 13%)
    Who cares? Most of them wont bother to vote in the end and that is why Tories are able to feck their lives in favour of the pensioners.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 24,592
    HYUFD said:

    nico679 said:

    nico679 said:

    Wow even the DT is admitting the truth .

    A record 1.2 million visas issued , immigration from the EU has collapsed and been replaced by a large spike in non EU immigration . 1.12 million non EU nationals is a record up 70% on pre Brexit levels . So that means only 80,000 visas were issued to EU nationals .

    Good to see immigration from around the world
    Leavers didn’t vote for 1.12 million visas a year issued . Anyway at least we’ll not have to worry about not being able to find a good curry ! Patel actually told the truth for once , she said vote Brexit and we can ship in more curry chefs .
    Wrong on many levels. Visas issued means we have control over who comes.
    Wrong in the key aspect - the Tory manifestos promised to reduce from too high immigration - so you are suggesting there actually is a control mechanism, but those who promised to use one are making the conscious decision not to use one, even though that trashes key promises to the electorate?
    EU immigration has fallen now free movement has ended
    Excellent.

    So: fewer europeans, many more non-europeans. I am sure that's exactly what the red wall Leavers voted for.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 18,992
    Andy_JS said:

    18-24s always start off very anti-Tory and always end up being very strongly Tory about 35 years later.

    Not me Squire. I still hate the ground Tories walk on.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 17,547
    Suddenly migrants don’t strain public services, reduce local wages, and generate housing inflation after all!

    Good to know.
  • Jonathan said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Red Arrows in Sidmouth tomorrow. I am really looking forward to it. They were brilliant last year. I just hope they’re sober.

    I thought they were going to be in Clacton.
    Can't they do both?
    In one day? Public transport between Clacton and Sidmoth would take ages.
    5 hours 9 minutes train from Clacton to Honiton, then 30 mins bus ride to Sidmouth
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 24,592
    HYUFD said:

    CatMan said:

    Have we done this?

    https://twitter.com/POLITlCSUK/status/1562744795147419655

    NEW: Voting intention in 18-24 year olds:

    LAB: 63% (+10)
    LIBDEM: 14% (+7)
    CON: 13% (-12)
    SNP: 4% (+1)
    RFM: 2% (-3)
    GRN: 1% (-6)

    Via @Kantar_UKI
    , 18-22 August

    Changes w/28th July

    Green @ 1% is the most surprising element of this poll imo.

    (Well, that and the Tories getting as many as 13%)
    Indeed, only Harry Enfield Tory Boys vote Tory in their teens and early 20s
    Which way did you vote in your early 20s?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 55,103

    So, new energy price cap announced tomorrow? Or will HMG intervene?

    I think the cap has to be announced whatever.

    And then something happens.

  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 5,752
    edited August 2022
    The dominant argument against freedom of movement (FOM), and therefore for Brexit, was the intolerable pressure placed on public services by high levels of immigration. This was pushed by the right-wing press and most Brexiteers. In brief, it was: we don't have a racist bone in our body, but FOM led to:

    = pressure on the NHS - e.g. 'it's increasingly hard to get a GP appointment'
    - class sizes are too high, and too many don't speak English as a first language
    - pressure on housing leading to shortages of social housing and inflated house prices
    - too many immigrants drive down wages at the lower end
    - specific pressures on 'culture' in towns and cities that had particularly high levels of immigration
    - these islands are simply overcrowded which puts strain on transport etc.

    What I don't understand is why these factors don't apply now, given that we have the same, or higher, levels of immigration than when we had FOM. The lower wages one can be countered, I suppose, by the higher skills level of the 'new' immigrants, but the rest of them?

    It's hard to imagine why the Mail etc. have gone all quiet on this.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 43,306

    Stewart Wood
    @StewartWood
    What a staggering remark from our Foreign Secretary, let alone from the very likely next Prime Minister. #LizTruss

    I'm genuinely staggered by the number of commentators who are losing it over that remark. It's quite mild compared to things that French ministers have said over the last 12 months.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 24,592

    So, new energy price cap announced tomorrow? Or will HMG intervene?

    I think the cap has to be announced whatever.

    And then something happens.

    "Shit, meet the fan."
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 18,992
    HYUFD said:

    CatMan said:

    Have we done this?

    https://twitter.com/POLITlCSUK/status/1562744795147419655

    NEW: Voting intention in 18-24 year olds:

    LAB: 63% (+10)
    LIBDEM: 14% (+7)
    CON: 13% (-12)
    SNP: 4% (+1)
    RFM: 2% (-3)
    GRN: 1% (-6)

    Via @Kantar_UKI
    , 18-22 August

    Changes w/28th July

    Green @ 1% is the most surprising element of this poll imo.

    (Well, that and the Tories getting as many as 13%)
    Indeed, only Harry Enfield Tory Boys vote Tory in their teens and early 20s
    True, as I recall you voted Plaid at that age.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 5,752
    CatMan said:

    Have we done this?

    https://twitter.com/POLITlCSUK/status/1562744795147419655

    NEW: Voting intention in 18-24 year olds:

    LAB: 63% (+10)
    LIBDEM: 14% (+7)
    CON: 13% (-12)
    SNP: 4% (+1)
    RFM: 2% (-3)
    GRN: 1% (-6)

    Via @Kantar_UKI
    , 18-22 August

    Changes w/28th July

    That 1% Green share, in that age group, doesn't smell right to me.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 9,028

    CatMan said:

    Have we done this?

    https://twitter.com/POLITlCSUK/status/1562744795147419655

    NEW: Voting intention in 18-24 year olds:

    LAB: 63% (+10)
    LIBDEM: 14% (+7)
    CON: 13% (-12)
    SNP: 4% (+1)
    RFM: 2% (-3)
    GRN: 1% (-6)

    Via @Kantar_UKI
    , 18-22 August

    Changes w/28th July

    Green @ 1% is the most surprising element of this poll imo.

    (Well, that and the Tories getting as many as 13%)
    I agree. The Greens utterly crashed to nothing among this group is the main take out. Surprising to the point of open mouth incredible.

    I don’t believe it. I would need it confirmed by other pollsters to trust it.

    In fact, there had to be a reason why Kantor polls hate Labour and love Tories, perhaps they canvas more oldies than young people as part their methodology, so the % above is just opinion of 12 people having ice cream outside a technical college.
  • HYUFD said:

    CatMan said:

    Have we done this?

    https://twitter.com/POLITlCSUK/status/1562744795147419655

    NEW: Voting intention in 18-24 year olds:

    LAB: 63% (+10)
    LIBDEM: 14% (+7)
    CON: 13% (-12)
    SNP: 4% (+1)
    RFM: 2% (-3)
    GRN: 1% (-6)

    Via @Kantar_UKI
    , 18-22 August

    Changes w/28th July

    Labour always win under 30s, it is 45 to 65s who win elections
    Are you sure? Here are the age splits from the last few General Elections;



    Hard to tell for sure, because the splits are 18-24 and 25-34, but it looks like the Conservatives might have snuck wins in the 18-30 group in '92 and '10.

    Remember kids (and oldies): the current division in politics along age lines is a very recent innovation and almost certainly a Very Bad Thing.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 17,547
    edited August 2022
    Personally I am of the belief that immigration *was* too high, and remains too high (though hard to tell if we are counting students, as I wouldn’t personally include those).

    Although an overall economic boon, the government never bothers to compensate the undoubted extra stress on infrastructure, and there’s a sense that it delivers a pace of societal change minus real democratic consent.

    I defend immigration in principle but recognise there are limits.

    In theory greater control is a good thing, but in practice, FOM gave us essentially the same as what we have now with added benefits besides. We swapped a pragmatic (though improvable) system with a bureaucratic shit-show.

    The British used to be pragmatists. What the fuck happened?
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 5,752
    Andy_JS said:

    18-24s always start off very anti-Tory and always end up being very strongly Tory about 35 years later.

    If you removed the words 'always' and wrote 'tend to' I could agree with you. But otherwise, no.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 9,028

    CatMan said:

    Have we done this?

    https://twitter.com/POLITlCSUK/status/1562744795147419655

    NEW: Voting intention in 18-24 year olds:

    LAB: 63% (+10)
    LIBDEM: 14% (+7)
    CON: 13% (-12)
    SNP: 4% (+1)
    RFM: 2% (-3)
    GRN: 1% (-6)

    Via @Kantar_UKI
    , 18-22 August

    Changes w/28th July

    That 1% Green share, in that age group, doesn't smell right to me.
    Do you give all the polls the smell test before anything else?

    Having kept us guessing, Kantor have just released on their web site that the chart above is actually a secret ballot of Starmer’s Shadow Cabinet.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 17,547

    Stewart Wood
    @StewartWood
    What a staggering remark from our Foreign Secretary, let alone from the very likely next Prime Minister. #LizTruss

    I'm genuinely staggered by the number of commentators who are losing it over that remark. It's quite mild compared to things that French ministers have said over the last 12 months.
    Who cares.
    Britain used to be better than this.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 107,147

    HYUFD said:

    CatMan said:

    Have we done this?

    https://twitter.com/POLITlCSUK/status/1562744795147419655

    NEW: Voting intention in 18-24 year olds:

    LAB: 63% (+10)
    LIBDEM: 14% (+7)
    CON: 13% (-12)
    SNP: 4% (+1)
    RFM: 2% (-3)
    GRN: 1% (-6)

    Via @Kantar_UKI
    , 18-22 August

    Changes w/28th July

    Labour always win under 30s, it is 45 to 65s who win elections
    Are you sure? Here are the age splits from the last few General Elections;



    Hard to tell for sure, because the splits are 18-24 and 25-34, but it looks like the Conservatives might have snuck wins in the 18-30 group in '92 and '10.

    Remember kids (and oldies): the current division in politics along age lines is a very recent innovation and almost certainly a Very Bad Thing.
    So on that chart Labour has certainly at least won under 25s at every general election since 1992.

    Labour also likely won 18-30s in 1992 too, 2010 maybe the only exception but probably because Brown was so unpopular and that was in the midst of the Clegg surge rather than any big move to Cameron
  • DynamoDynamo Posts: 651
    edited August 2022
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The UK is in the low-middle of the pack for inflation rates in Europe. Less than Spain, Holland, Belgium; more than France, Germany, Italy

    Much lower than Eastern Europe

    Excellent. UK is faring better than Eastern Europe. Sound the trumpets!
    Mate, the whole world is in the toilet. We’re just bickering about who is further along the U-bend
    True, but some places are less likely than others to get nuked or starved to f*** in WW3. Where are some reasonable places to seek refuge? NZ is on many people's lists. I was thinking maybe South America. Europe and anywhere within 1000 miles of Taiwan, no thanks.

    The chance that historians if any exist in 100 years' time will look back at Britain in the early 2020s and think "They handled the Ukrainian business so well" is, let's face it, infinitesimal.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 17,547
    Dynamo said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The UK is in the low-middle of the pack for inflation rates in Europe. Less than Spain, Holland, Belgium; more than France, Germany, Italy

    Much lower than Eastern Europe

    Excellent. UK is faring better than Eastern Europe. Sound the trumpets!
    Mate, the whole world is in the toilet. We’re just bickering about who is further along the U-bend
    True, but some places are less likely to get nuked or starved to f*** than others in WW3. Where are some reasonable places to seek refuge? NZ is on many people's lists. I was thinking maybe South America. Europe and anywhere within 1000 miles of Taiwan, no thanks.
    NZ. Can recommend.

  • LeonLeon Posts: 30,484

    Stewart Wood
    @StewartWood
    What a staggering remark from our Foreign Secretary, let alone from the very likely next Prime Minister. #LizTruss

    I'm genuinely staggered by the number of commentators who are losing it over that remark. It's quite mild compared to things that French ministers have said over the last 12 months.

    They’re Remainers, what do you expect? They despise Britain and worship anything EU

    It’s only now you’ve changed sides, and been redpilled, that you can see the pathology for what it is
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 107,147

    HYUFD said:

    CatMan said:

    Have we done this?

    https://twitter.com/POLITlCSUK/status/1562744795147419655

    NEW: Voting intention in 18-24 year olds:

    LAB: 63% (+10)
    LIBDEM: 14% (+7)
    CON: 13% (-12)
    SNP: 4% (+1)
    RFM: 2% (-3)
    GRN: 1% (-6)

    Via @Kantar_UKI
    , 18-22 August

    Changes w/28th July

    Green @ 1% is the most surprising element of this poll imo.

    (Well, that and the Tories getting as many as 13%)
    Indeed, only Harry Enfield Tory Boys vote Tory in their teens and early 20s
    Which way did you vote in your early 20s?
    Tory but then I was a Harry Enfield Tory Boy
  • FeersumEnjineeyaFeersumEnjineeya Posts: 3,120
    edited August 2022
    Dynamo said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The UK is in the low-middle of the pack for inflation rates in Europe. Less than Spain, Holland, Belgium; more than France, Germany, Italy

    Much lower than Eastern Europe

    Excellent. UK is faring better than Eastern Europe. Sound the trumpets!
    Mate, the whole world is in the toilet. We’re just bickering about who is further along the U-bend
    True, but some places are less likely than others to get nuked or starved to f*** in WW3. Where are some reasonable places to seek refuge? NZ is on many people's lists. I was thinking maybe South America. Europe and anywhere within 1000 miles of Taiwan, no thanks.

    The chance that historians if any exist in 100 years' time will look back at Britain in the early 2020s and think "They handled the Ukrainian business so well" is, let's face it, infinitesimal.
    Depends who's letting refugees in, I suppose. Best check there's no risk of being sent to, say, Rwanda.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 9,028

    Stewart Wood
    @StewartWood
    What a staggering remark from our Foreign Secretary, let alone from the very likely next Prime Minister. #LizTruss

    I'm genuinely staggered by the number of commentators who are losing it over that remark. It's quite mild compared to things that French ministers have said over the last 12 months.
    Your spin of a ring of steel around Truss is admirable, and always very patiently, calmly posted - and this time you do have a point. Out of all of the remarks in all the campaign, this one had really brought on more attention and rebuke than expected. Is it diplomacy is all part of a game, and being blunt and honest to your party members how you see it just isn’t part of the game you always have to play at that level?
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    CatMan said:

    Have we done this?

    https://twitter.com/POLITlCSUK/status/1562744795147419655

    NEW: Voting intention in 18-24 year olds:

    LAB: 63% (+10)
    LIBDEM: 14% (+7)
    CON: 13% (-12)
    SNP: 4% (+1)
    RFM: 2% (-3)
    GRN: 1% (-6)

    Via @Kantar_UKI
    , 18-22 August

    Changes w/28th July

    Green @ 1% is the most surprising element of this poll imo.

    (Well, that and the Tories getting as many as 13%)
    Indeed, only Harry Enfield Tory Boys vote Tory in their teens and early 20s
    Which way did you vote in your early 20s?
    Tory but then I was a Harry Enfield Tory Boy
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zInyrDfR4us
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 9,028

    Jonathan said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Red Arrows in Sidmouth tomorrow. I am really looking forward to it. They were brilliant last year. I just hope they’re sober.

    I thought they were going to be in Clacton.
    Can't they do both?
    In one day? Public transport between Clacton and Sidmoth would take ages.
    5 hours 9 minutes train from Clacton to Honiton, then 30 mins bus ride to Sidmouth
    Are you going down the seaside on bank holiday?
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 1,460


    On the original post in this thread about record visa approvals, you can see from this graph that the record high is from student numbers and hongkongers. So the brexit angle is a bit dubious.

    Lots more here, which is where I took the graph from:

    https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/long-term-international-migration-flows-to-and-from-the-uk/
  • Leon said:

    Stewart Wood
    @StewartWood
    What a staggering remark from our Foreign Secretary, let alone from the very likely next Prime Minister. #LizTruss

    I'm genuinely staggered by the number of commentators who are losing it over that remark. It's quite mild compared to things that French ministers have said over the last 12 months.

    They’re Remainers, what do you expect? They despise Britain and worship anything EU

    It’s only now you’ve changed sides, and been redpilled, that you can see the pathology for what it is
    You spend so little time in the UK, why should you care?
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 5,752

    CatMan said:

    Have we done this?

    https://twitter.com/POLITlCSUK/status/1562744795147419655

    NEW: Voting intention in 18-24 year olds:

    LAB: 63% (+10)
    LIBDEM: 14% (+7)
    CON: 13% (-12)
    SNP: 4% (+1)
    RFM: 2% (-3)
    GRN: 1% (-6)

    Via @Kantar_UKI
    , 18-22 August

    Changes w/28th July

    That 1% Green share, in that age group, doesn't smell right to me.
    Do you give all the polls the smell test before anything else?

    Having kept us guessing, Kantor have just released on their web site that the chart above is actually a secret ballot of Starmer’s Shadow Cabinet.
    Yes - I'm of an age where the smell test works better than any other psephological analysis.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 30,484
    Dynamo said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The UK is in the low-middle of the pack for inflation rates in Europe. Less than Spain, Holland, Belgium; more than France, Germany, Italy

    Much lower than Eastern Europe

    Excellent. UK is faring better than Eastern Europe. Sound the trumpets!
    Mate, the whole world is in the toilet. We’re just bickering about who is further along the U-bend
    True, but some places are less likely than others to get nuked or starved to f*** in WW3. Where are some reasonable places to seek refuge? NZ is on many people's lists. I was thinking maybe South America. Europe and anywhere within 1000 miles of Taiwan, no thanks.

    The chance that historians if any exist in 100 years' time will look back at Britain in the early 2020s and think "They handled the Ukrainian business so well" is, let's face it, infinitesimal.

    I quite fancy Oz. An hour north of Sydney. The
    Hawkesbury river, or Pittwater

    But Sydney might get zapped. So the Atherton Highlands in Queensland

    Or the wine lands of Chile
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 9,028
    HYUFD said:

    nico679 said:

    nico679 said:

    Wow even the DT is admitting the truth .

    A record 1.2 million visas issued , immigration from the EU has collapsed and been replaced by a large spike in non EU immigration . 1.12 million non EU nationals is a record up 70% on pre Brexit levels . So that means only 80,000 visas were issued to EU nationals .

    Good to see immigration from around the world
    Leavers didn’t vote for 1.12 million visas a year issued . Anyway at least we’ll not have to worry about not being able to find a good curry ! Patel actually told the truth for once , she said vote Brexit and we can ship in more curry chefs .
    Wrong on many levels. Visas issued means we have control over who comes.
    Wrong in the key aspect - the Tory manifestos promised to reduce from too high immigration - so you are suggesting there actually is a control mechanism, but those who promised to use one are making the conscious decision not to use one, even though that trashes key promises to the electorate?
    EU immigration has fallen now free movement has ended
    Yes. But Truss Trade Deals immigration is making up for it.

    Why do you think Tories will leave office not delivering on their bringing down immigration repeated promise? Is it too much a hit on growth on the economy, and can’t really be done without that?
  • The dominant argument against freedom of movement (FOM), and therefore for Brexit, was the intolerable pressure placed on public services by high levels of immigration. This was pushed by the right-wing press and most Brexiteers. In brief, it was: we don't have a racist bone in our body, but FOM led to:

    = pressure on the NHS - e.g. 'it's increasingly hard to get a GP appointment'
    - class sizes are too high, and too many don't speak English as a first language
    - pressure on housing leading to shortages of social housing and inflated house prices
    - too many immigrants drive down wages at the lower end
    - specific pressures on 'culture' in towns and cities that had particularly high levels of immigration
    - these islands are simply overcrowded which puts strain on transport etc.

    What I don't understand is why these factors don't apply now, given that we have the same, or higher, levels of immigration than when we had FOM. The lower wages one can be countered, I suppose, by the higher skills level of the 'new' immigrants, but the rest of them?

    It's hard to imagine why the Mail etc. have gone all quiet on this.

    Many middle class folk coming to Britain aren't immigrants but more broadly, expats. They'll be here for a few years, have private health insureance, shun the local schools and aren't interested in brick-laying. And their effect on housing gets lost in the general crisis in that area.

    (Not entirely true. As a foreigner, me and a lot of my friends have become immigrants. But that's the general vibe I get. The only time anyone ever reailed at me was because I said years ago I could vote because of my Irish passport.)
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 1,460
    edited August 2022
    carnforth said:



    On the original post in this thread about record visa approvals, you can see from this graph that the record high is from student numbers and hongkongers. So the brexit angle is a bit dubious.

    Lots more here, which is where I took the graph from:

    https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/long-term-international-migration-flows-to-and-from-the-uk/

    I misspoke: it looks to be almost all from Hongkongers.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 9,028

    CatMan said:

    Have we done this?

    https://twitter.com/POLITlCSUK/status/1562744795147419655

    NEW: Voting intention in 18-24 year olds:

    LAB: 63% (+10)
    LIBDEM: 14% (+7)
    CON: 13% (-12)
    SNP: 4% (+1)
    RFM: 2% (-3)
    GRN: 1% (-6)

    Via @Kantar_UKI
    , 18-22 August

    Changes w/28th July

    That 1% Green share, in that age group, doesn't smell right to me.
    Do you give all the polls the smell test before anything else?

    Having kept us guessing, Kantor have just released on their web site that the chart above is actually a secret ballot of Starmer’s Shadow Cabinet.
    Yes - I'm of an age where the smell test works better than any other psephological analysis.
    I am sure I will find things in the fridge tomorrow night that will fail a smell test, and some will fail psephological analysis too.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 9,028

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    I started the 1970s living in a house with no central heating and a little black and white telly. I ended it living in one with central heating and a slightly larger colour one. My wife’s family got their first inside toilet in the 1970s. It was actually a decade in which the standard of living for most ordinary people improved dramatically.

    Luxury. We started the 70s in a septic tank in a lake.
    In a lake? Luxury. Our septic tank was in a puddle.
    In 1976 our puddle completely dried up.
    You were lucky. We dreamed of a dried up puddle. We had to get by living in Maggie Thatcher's handbag.
    A handbag!!?

    (Oh, sorry - wrong script.)
    “ Oh, sorry - wrong script “

    That’s the problem with being too earnest.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 17,547
    carnforth said:

    carnforth said:



    On the original post in this thread about record visa approvals, you can see from this graph that the record high is from student numbers and hongkongers. So the brexit angle is a bit dubious.

    Lots more here, which is where I took the graph from:

    https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/long-term-international-migration-flows-to-and-from-the-uk/

    I misspoke: it looks to be almost all from Hongkongers.
    That (and counting students) would certainly explain the bizarre spectacle of high migration plus cross-sector labour shortages.

    Neil O’Brien MP was banging on about West Africans and family reunions the other day so someone’s got their wires crossed somewhere.

  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 17,547

    The dominant argument against freedom of movement (FOM), and therefore for Brexit, was the intolerable pressure placed on public services by high levels of immigration. This was pushed by the right-wing press and most Brexiteers. In brief, it was: we don't have a racist bone in our body, but FOM led to:

    = pressure on the NHS - e.g. 'it's increasingly hard to get a GP appointment'
    - class sizes are too high, and too many don't speak English as a first language
    - pressure on housing leading to shortages of social housing and inflated house prices
    - too many immigrants drive down wages at the lower end
    - specific pressures on 'culture' in towns and cities that had particularly high levels of immigration
    - these islands are simply overcrowded which puts strain on transport etc.

    What I don't understand is why these factors don't apply now, given that we have the same, or higher, levels of immigration than when we had FOM. The lower wages one can be countered, I suppose, by the higher skills level of the 'new' immigrants, but the rest of them?

    It's hard to imagine why the Mail etc. have gone all quiet on this.

    Many middle class folk coming to Britain aren't immigrants but more broadly, expats. They'll be here for a few years, have private health insureance, shun the local schools and aren't interested in brick-laying. And their effect on housing gets lost in the general crisis in that area.

    (Not entirely true. As a foreigner, me and a lot of my friends have become immigrants. But that's the general vibe I get. The only time anyone ever reailed at me was because I said years ago I could vote because of my Irish passport.)
    I came, paid a million pounds or so of tax, hardly used public services, and left.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 1,460

    carnforth said:

    carnforth said:



    On the original post in this thread about record visa approvals, you can see from this graph that the record high is from student numbers and hongkongers. So the brexit angle is a bit dubious.

    Lots more here, which is where I took the graph from:

    https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/long-term-international-migration-flows-to-and-from-the-uk/

    I misspoke: it looks to be almost all from Hongkongers.
    That (and counting students) would certainly explain the bizarre spectacle of high migration plus cross-sector labour shortages.

    Neil O’Brien MP was banging on about West Africans and family reunions the other day so someone’s got their wires crossed somewhere.

    With family reunion, the net figure is small, but is probably almost equal to the gross figure: these people are probably staying for life. With students and work visas, the net and gross figures will be wildly different, because of high churn.
  • stjohnstjohn Posts: 1,675

    The dominant argument against freedom of movement (FOM), and therefore for Brexit, was the intolerable pressure placed on public services by high levels of immigration. This was pushed by the right-wing press and most Brexiteers. In brief, it was: we don't have a racist bone in our body, but FOM led to:

    = pressure on the NHS - e.g. 'it's increasingly hard to get a GP appointment'
    - class sizes are too high, and too many don't speak English as a first language
    - pressure on housing leading to shortages of social housing and inflated house prices
    - too many immigrants drive down wages at the lower end
    - specific pressures on 'culture' in towns and cities that had particularly high levels of immigration
    - these islands are simply overcrowded which puts strain on transport etc.

    What I don't understand is why these factors don't apply now, given that we have the same, or higher, levels of immigration than when we had FOM. The lower wages one can be countered, I suppose, by the higher skills level of the 'new' immigrants, but the rest of them?

    It's hard to imagine why the Mail etc. have gone all quiet on this.

    Many middle class folk coming to Britain aren't immigrants but more broadly, expats. They'll be here for a few years, have private health insureance, shun the local schools and aren't interested in brick-laying. And their effect on housing gets lost in the general crisis in that area.

    (Not entirely true. As a foreigner, me and a lot of my friends have become immigrants. But that's the general vibe I get. The only time anyone ever reailed at me was because I said years ago I could vote because of my Irish passport.)
    I came, paid a million pounds or so of tax, hardly used public services, and left.
    I imagine that the UK government would be very happy to welcome you back for a return visit on the same terms. They might even throw in a free eye and dental check up? :smile:
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 48,955

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    We're about to have an utter loon as PM. Or, at best, someone prepared to act like a loon because she thinks it will advance her career.

    TalkTV hustings:

    * Liz Truss says 'jury's out' on whether Macron is friend or foe; Sunak says he's a friend

    * Sunak says LizTruss would make a better PM than Johnson; Truss says Johnson

    * Truss says energy bills are 'massive issue' but 'bunging money' at system is not answer.


    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1562892217228079105

    Graham Brady better not book any holidays this winter.
    I’ve not seen evidence of Truss somehow surprising “on the upside”

    She needs the loons onboard to survive in post. Therefore, she’ll be a loon

    It is LOL.

    The membership are about to elect IDS mark II to the premiership. It will one hapless mishap and gaffe and on-the-hoof bonkers policy announcement after another.

    As the gaffes mount she will redouble her efforts by making up even more bonkers quiet bat people nonsense to sell.

    Meanwhile the wall of economic shit will pour over her useless Cabinet.

    I am convinced there will be a leadership election next summer.

    I’m starting to think she won’t take them into the election too. There will be like the coup against IDS, no member vote, and Wallace or Barclay, or someone similarly acceptable to most MPs will lead them into the general election.
    It would have to be Wallace by coronation a la Howard 2003 if she was replaced like IDS before the next election. We cannot have 2 leadership contests in 1 parliament
    That’s what I said, Wallace, or Barclay or such like in a coronation. Probably similar time of year, Nov 23.

    It’s like my Dad said right at the start, it’s not just the next election to worry about, Leave office having completely shredded your credibility on the economy - that credibility won’t be rebuilt quickly in opposition - lack of trust in you on economy, health, cost of living, can play even bigger five years after throwing away incumbency bonus, you can actually lose more seats not gain them in subsequent elections, five years time and in ten years time when people remember the wrong headed decisions made in the last years of the spell in power even without all the opposition parties reminding them.

    Which is why, HY, I said below about PR. Give Labour and Lib `dems and SNP votes control of the commons for the next 15 years, which the record of PM Truss will, there can be all sorts of changes and all sorts of mountains for Conservative politics to climb to enjoy power like this again.
    If the economy is as bad as that then there would be frequent changes of government. A Labour, LD and SNP government of high inflation and frequent strikes would swiftly see a swing back to the right, even under PR. Farage would also of course win dozens of seats with PR
    I guess you prefer to stick with the current Tory high inflation and frequent strikes.
    Is the high inflation across Europe and elsewhere 'Tory high inflation' or actually 'Putin's evil war' against Ukraine
    Inflation is 6.1% in France*. It's 8.8% in the UK; that's nearly half as much again.

    (*Yes France, the country roundly condemned by UK Tories as forever on the edge of catastrophe.)

    Inflation is 8.9% across the EU

    https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/documents/2995521/14644650/2-29072022-AP-EN.pdf/8b14d87f-df6c-aeb5-7dc9-40c60e4f6bc2#:~:text=Euro area annual inflation is,office of the European Union.
    Heavily slanted by the Baltic states all having >20% inflation.
    The Baltic states collectively are less than 1.4% of the EU population. Whatever effect they are having, it is not "heavily slanting" the EU figures.
    How are Eurozone inflation numbers calculated?

    Because the three largest EU/Eurozone states are Germany (7.5% inflation), France (6.1%) and Italy (7.9%). They are all well below the EU/Eurozone average, which is strange because they account for 210m of the 440m EZ population.
    Germany is 8.5% and Italy is 8.9%

    https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/documents/2995521/14644650/2-29072022-AP-EN.pdf/8b14d87f-df6c-aeb5-7dc9-40c60e4f6bc2#:~:text=Euro area annual inflation is,office of the European Union
    The Germans say it is 7.5% - https://www.destatis.de/EN/Themes/Economy/Prices/Consumer-Price-Index/_node.html#:~:text=The inflation rate in Germany,May 2022 at +7.9%.
  • DynamoDynamo Posts: 651
    edited August 2022
    The Ukrainian side is saying that shelling caused fires at the Zaporizhzhia nuclear plant which caused it to be disconnected temporarily from the Ukrainian grid. The Russian side say there has been Ukrainian shelling, but I don't know what they are saying about disconnection or otherwise. Isolation could cause cooling to be dependent on diesel generators AIUI. A cooling failure could possibly, although wouldn't necessarily, cause a meltdown. Output can't simply be rerouted from the Ukrainian grid to the Donbas grid with a flick of a switch.
  • Jonathan said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Red Arrows in Sidmouth tomorrow. I am really looking forward to it. They were brilliant last year. I just hope they’re sober.

    I thought they were going to be in Clacton.
    Can't they do both?
    In one day? Public transport between Clacton and Sidmoth would take ages.
    5 hours 9 minutes train from Clacton to Honiton, then 30 mins bus ride to Sidmouth
    Are you going down the seaside on bank holiday?
    Probably not, will be too busy. Last Sunday went from the newly opened Barking Riverside boat pier (just 2 miles south of Ilford!) as far as Battersea Power Station.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 48,955
    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    The UK is in the low-middle of the pack for inflation rates in Europe. Less than Spain, Holland, Belgium; more than France, Germany, Italy

    Much lower than Eastern Europe

    Excellent. UK is faring better than Eastern Europe. Sound the trumpets!
    When were Spain and the Benelux nations in Eastern Europe?
    Ah hem - Luxembourg's inflation rate is 6.2%.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 48,955
    @HYUFD - you were using the Flash Estimate for inflation, not the final numbers.
  • carnforth said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    We're about to have an utter loon as PM. Or, at best, someone prepared to act like a loon because she thinks it will advance her career.

    TalkTV hustings:

    * Liz Truss says 'jury's out' on whether Macron is friend or foe; Sunak says he's a friend

    * Sunak says LizTruss would make a better PM than Johnson; Truss says Johnson

    * Truss says energy bills are 'massive issue' but 'bunging money' at system is not answer.


    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1562892217228079105

    Graham Brady better not book any holidays this winter.
    I’ve not seen evidence of Truss somehow surprising “on the upside”

    She needs the loons onboard to survive in post. Therefore, she’ll be a loon

    It is LOL.

    The membership are about to elect IDS mark II to the premiership. It will one hapless mishap and gaffe and on-the-hoof bonkers policy announcement after another.

    As the gaffes mount she will redouble her efforts by making up even more bonkers quiet bat people nonsense to sell.

    Meanwhile the wall of economic shit will pour over her useless Cabinet.

    I am convinced there will be a leadership election next summer.

    I’m starting to think she won’t take them into the election too. There will be like the coup against IDS, no member vote, and Wallace or Barclay, or someone similarly acceptable to most MPs will lead them into the general election.
    It would have to be Wallace by coronation a la Howard 2003 if she was replaced like IDS before the next election. We cannot have 2 leadership contests in 1 parliament
    That’s what I said, Wallace, or Barclay or such like in a coronation. Probably similar time of year, Nov 23.

    It’s like my Dad said right at the start, it’s not just the next election to worry about, Leave office having completely shredded your credibility on the economy - that credibility won’t be rebuilt quickly in opposition - lack of trust in you on economy, health, cost of living, can play even bigger five years after throwing away incumbency bonus, you can actually lose more seats not gain them in subsequent elections, five years time and in ten years time when people remember the wrong headed decisions made in the last years of the spell in power even without all the opposition parties reminding them.

    Which is why, HY, I said below about PR. Give Labour and Lib `dems and SNP votes control of the commons for the next 15 years, which the record of PM Truss will, there can be all sorts of changes and all sorts of mountains for Conservative politics to climb to enjoy power like this again.
    If the economy is as bad as that then there would be frequent changes of government. A Labour, LD and SNP government of high inflation and frequent strikes would swiftly see a swing back to the right, even under PR. Farage would also of course win dozens of seats with PR
    I guess you prefer to stick with the current Tory high inflation and frequent strikes.
    Is the high inflation across Europe and elsewhere 'Tory high inflation' or actually 'Putin's evil war' against Ukraine
    Inflation is 6.1% in France*. It's 8.8% in the UK; that's nearly half as much again.

    (*Yes France, the country roundly condemned by UK Tories as forever on the edge of catastrophe.)

    It is a lot higher in other European countries and especially in the Baltic states
    So you think Latvias, Lithuania and Estonia are appropriate comparitors rather than France?
    They are not. But France is a poor compar-tor because of Nuclear energy, when so much of our inflation is due to energy costs.
    France also owns its national electricity company so can and has controlled retail electricity prices.
    If they nationalised everything, they could control all the prices, and everyone could be rich.
    Absurd failure to engage with the argument.

    Electricity supply is a de facto monopoly and should be managed as such.
    Electricity supply is not remotely a de facto monopoly. There are a plethora of companies generating electricity.
  • MPartridgeMPartridge Posts: 151
    Out of interest, has anyone made any bets for the next General Election and if so what have you gone for?
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 2,624
    Given Truss has won the leadership contest she didn’t need to go chasing votes of the members who are overwhelmingly anti Macron and anti EU .

    Her comments are a big sign as to what the next two years are going to be like . Constant battles with the EU and a very divisive period where any criticism of the governments approach will be labeled as unpatriotic by the Daily Hate and the rest of the sycophantic right wing press .
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 17,547
    nico679 said:

    Given Truss has won the leadership contest she didn’t need to go chasing votes of the members who are overwhelmingly anti Macron and anti EU .

    Her comments are a big sign as to what the next two years are going to be like . Constant battles with the EU and a very divisive period where any criticism of the governments approach will be labeled as unpatriotic by the Daily Hate and the rest of the sycophantic right wing press .

    I very much agree.

    She obviously enjoys appealing to baser instincts and populist fantasy, and we should expect that to continue.

    The only consolation is that the mood is settling in for a change of government, regardless of how much bullshit she spouts.
  • nico679 said:

    Given Truss has won the leadership contest she didn’t need to go chasing votes of the members who are overwhelmingly anti Macron and anti EU .

    Her comments are a big sign as to what the next two years are going to be like . Constant battles with the EU and a very divisive period where any criticism of the governments approach will be labeled as unpatriotic by the Daily Hate and the rest of the sycophantic right wing press .

    Constant battles with the EU are what the UK has had for about the past 34 years (when it was called the EEC).

    The EU should be treated with realpolitik. Truss's comments weren't outrageous, Macron is neither a friend nor a foe, he is simply the leader of one our neighbours. A leader has shown himself not to be friendly, but has not shown himself to be a foe either, simply a leader interested in France which is his job.

    Put away your rose tinted goggles pretending that other countries will be nice to us if we're just nice to them, that we're all friends. We're not. We're neighbours, they know that, we should too.

    As far as the NI issue is concerned, it really isn't a stretch to say the UK holds all the cards. NI is legally a part of the UK and legally it is not a part of the EU. Our sovereign law comes first, just as it does in any over sovereign country.

    All that matters between the UK and the EU is diplomacy and as far as diplomacy is concerned, nearly all of the countries of the EU don't want a trade war with the UK. They want the real war on their Eastern flanks to be resolved with a victory for the defenders not the aggressors who are threatening them too. In that the UK is a stronger ally than France, or Germany, or Ireland.

    As much as it might irritate people like @Cicero nations like Estonia, Poland etc are not going to vote unanimously for trade war sanctions against the UK when the UK is aiding a real war happening in the East.

    It is time to put the petty squabbles of Brexit behind us and Truss can do that. Implement the NI Protocol Bill, shut down the issue, and move the hell on already.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 10,764

    HYUFD said:

    We're about to have an utter loon as PM. Or, at best, someone prepared to act like a loon because she thinks it will advance her career.

    TalkTV hustings:

    * Liz Truss says 'jury's out' on whether Macron is friend or foe; Sunak says he's a friend

    * Sunak says LizTruss would make a better PM than Johnson; Truss says Johnson

    * Truss says energy bills are 'massive issue' but 'bunging money' at system is not answer.


    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1562892217228079105

    Graham Brady better not book any holidays this winter.
    I’ve not seen evidence of Truss somehow surprising “on the upside”

    She needs the loons onboard to survive in post. Therefore, she’ll be a loon

    It is LOL.

    The membership are about to elect IDS mark II to the premiership. It will one hapless mishap and gaffe and on-the-hoof bonkers policy announcement after another.

    As the gaffes mount she will redouble her efforts by making up even more bonkers quiet bat people nonsense to sell.

    Meanwhile the wall of economic shit will pour over her useless Cabinet.

    I am convinced there will be a leadership election next summer.

    I’m starting to think she won’t take them into the election too. There will be like the coup against IDS, no member vote, and Wallace or Barclay, or someone similarly acceptable to most MPs will lead them into the general election.
    It would have to be Wallace by coronation a la Howard 2003 if she was replaced like IDS before the next election. We cannot have 2 leadership contests in 1 parliament
    Wallace will be off to head up NATO by then
    The next NATO SecGen has to be ideally..

    a) A woman
    b) Eastern European or Baltic. 'Emerging Europe' as the Americans say.
    c) Have good relations with the EU as the US long term strategy is for the EU to defend Europe's territorial integrity.
    d) Not look like Homer Simpson.

    Baldy Ben ticks none of those boxes. Kaja Kallas or Daria Grybauskaite seem much more likely.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 9,028
    Dura_Ace said:

    HYUFD said:

    We're about to have an utter loon as PM. Or, at best, someone prepared to act like a loon because she thinks it will advance her career.

    TalkTV hustings:

    * Liz Truss says 'jury's out' on whether Macron is friend or foe; Sunak says he's a friend

    * Sunak says LizTruss would make a better PM than Johnson; Truss says Johnson

    * Truss says energy bills are 'massive issue' but 'bunging money' at system is not answer.


    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1562892217228079105

    Graham Brady better not book any holidays this winter.
    I’ve not seen evidence of Truss somehow surprising “on the upside”

    She needs the loons onboard to survive in post. Therefore, she’ll be a loon

    It is LOL.

    The membership are about to elect IDS mark II to the premiership. It will one hapless mishap and gaffe and on-the-hoof bonkers policy announcement after another.

    As the gaffes mount she will redouble her efforts by making up even more bonkers quiet bat people nonsense to sell.

    Meanwhile the wall of economic shit will pour over her useless Cabinet.

    I am convinced there will be a leadership election next summer.

    I’m starting to think she won’t take them into the election too. There will be like the coup against IDS, no member vote, and Wallace or Barclay, or someone similarly acceptable to most MPs will lead them into the general election.
    It would have to be Wallace by coronation a la Howard 2003 if she was replaced like IDS before the next election. We cannot have 2 leadership contests in 1 parliament
    Wallace will be off to head up NATO by then
    The next NATO SecGen has to be ideally..

    a) A woman
    b) Eastern European or Baltic. 'Emerging Europe' as the Americans say.
    c) Have good relations with the EU as the US long term strategy is for the EU to defend Europe's territorial integrity.
    d) Not look like Homer Simpson.

    Baldy Ben ticks none of those boxes. Kaja Kallas or Daria Grybauskaite seem much more likely.
    If he really wants it, Ben needs to start transitioning now then? 🫡
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