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The ambulance service is becoming a huge problem for Tories – politicalbetting.com

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  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 55,031
    edited August 25

    We're about to have an utter loon as PM. Or, at best, someone prepared to act like a loon because she thinks it will advance her career.

    TalkTV hustings:

    * Liz Truss says 'jury's out' on whether Macron is friend or foe; Sunak says he's a friend

    * Sunak says LizTruss would make a better PM than Johnson; Truss says Johnson

    * Truss says energy bills are 'massive issue' but 'bunging money' at system is not answer.


    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1562892217228079105

    Graham Brady better not book any holidays this winter.
    I’ve not seen evidence of Truss somehow surprising “on the upside”

    She needs the loons onboard to survive in post. Therefore, she’ll be a loon

    It is LOL.

    The membership are about to elect IDS mark II to the premiership. It will one hapless mishap and gaffe and on-the-hoof bonkers policy announcement after another.

    As the gaffes mount she will redouble her efforts by making up even more bonkers quiet bat people nonsense to sell.

    Meanwhile the wall of economic shit will pour over her useless Cabinet.

    I am convinced there will be a leadership election next summer.

    I would wait for September to unfold which should be long enough to provide the answer whether she will sink or swim

    I have not committed to either as I have no idea but it will not be long starting a week on Monday

    I notice Sunak has confirmed he will vote for Truss's budget as 'he is a conservative' !!!!
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 28,109
    Jonathan said:

    Truss can only possibly surprise on the upside.

    She has spent the whole campaign sinking even lower than expected...
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 2,551
    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Truss doesn't know if Macron is friend or foe ? Really ?

    The UK deserves so much better than this constant cheap europhobia

    Putin is a foe, Al Assad, the Taliban
    but if you can't figure out if Macron is in the same category, you're really not fit to be a British Prime Minister
    https://twitter.com/Haggis_UK/status/1562887482881871874

    I can't imagine Biden, Scholz, Macron, Trudeau jumping to be friendly with her after this campaign at the next G7 summit. Truss needs to pray Meloni wins the next Italian election next month so she has a friend. She will have Zelensky of course but he is a bit preoccupied at present even if invited over Zoom
    It’s likely she will head the right wing coalition but they are no longer running on a platform of anti EU hysteria . The only party wanting an EU exit called Italexit is currently polling around 3%.

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 104,912

    We're about to have an utter loon as PM. Or, at best, someone prepared to act like a loon because she thinks it will advance her career.

    TalkTV hustings:

    * Liz Truss says 'jury's out' on whether Macron is friend or foe; Sunak says he's a friend

    * Sunak says LizTruss would make a better PM than Johnson; Truss says Johnson

    * Truss says energy bills are 'massive issue' but 'bunging money' at system is not answer.


    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1562892217228079105

    Graham Brady better not book any holidays this winter.
    I’ve not seen evidence of Truss somehow surprising “on the upside”

    She needs the loons onboard to survive in post. Therefore, she’ll be a loon

    It is LOL.

    The membership are about to elect IDS mark II to the premiership. It will one hapless mishap and gaffe and on-the-hoof bonkers policy announcement after another.

    As the gaffes mount she will redouble her efforts by making up even more bonkers quiet bat people nonsense to sell.

    Meanwhile the wall of economic shit will pour over her useless Cabinet.

    I am convinced there will be a leadership election next summer.

    I’m starting to think she won’t take them into the election too. There will be like the coup against IDS, no member vote, and Wallace or Barclay, or someone similarly acceptable to most MPs will lead them into the general election.
    It would have to be Wallace by coronation a la Howard 2003 if she was replaced like IDS before the next election. We cannot have 2 leadership contests in 1 parliament
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 27,909
    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    We're about to have an utter loon as PM. Or, at best, someone prepared to act like a loon because she thinks it will advance her career.

    TalkTV hustings:

    * Liz Truss says 'jury's out' on whether Macron is friend or foe; Sunak says he's a friend

    * Sunak says LizTruss would make a better PM than Johnson; Truss says Johnson

    * Truss says energy bills are 'massive issue' but 'bunging money' at system is not answer.


    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1562892217228079105

    Graham Brady better not book any holidays this winter.
    I’ve not seen evidence of Truss somehow surprising “on the upside”

    She needs the loons onboard to survive in post. Therefore, she’ll be a loon

    It is LOL.

    The membership are about to elect IDS mark II to the premiership. It will one hapless mishap and gaffe and on-the-hoof bonkers policy announcement after another.

    As the gaffes mount she will redouble her efforts by making up even more bonkers quiet bat people nonsense to sell.

    Meanwhile the wall of economic shit will pour over her useless Cabinet.

    I am convinced there will be a leadership election next summer.

    At which we will all echo Mrs Duffy.
    This is more Mrs Brown's Boys than Mrs Duffy.
    *looks up* doesn't mean anything to me. but 'breaking the fourth wall' certainly sounds apposite tonight.
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 2,654

    We're about to have an utter loon as PM. Or, at best, someone prepared to act like a loon because she thinks it will advance her career.

    TalkTV hustings:

    * Liz Truss says 'jury's out' on whether Macron is friend or foe; Sunak says he's a friend

    * Sunak says LizTruss would make a better PM than Johnson; Truss says Johnson

    * Truss says energy bills are 'massive issue' but 'bunging money' at system is not answer.


    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1562892217228079105

    Graham Brady better not book any holidays this winter.
    I’ve not seen evidence of Truss somehow surprising “on the upside”

    She needs the loons onboard to survive in post. Therefore, she’ll be a loon

    It is LOL.

    The membership are about to elect IDS mark II to the premiership. It will one hapless mishap and gaffe and on-the-hoof bonkers policy announcement after another.

    As the gaffes mount she will redouble her efforts by making up even more bonkers quiet bat people nonsense to sell.

    Meanwhile the wall of economic shit will pour over her useless Cabinet.

    I am convinced there will be a leadership election next summer.

    I would wait for September to unfold which should be long enough to provide the answer whether she will sink or swim

    I have not committed to either as I have no idea but it will not be long starting a week on Monday

    I notice Sunak has confirmed he will vote for Truss's budget as 'he is a conservative' !!!!

    He says that now. But if Truss comes back with tax cuts only, he won’t.

    Then we’re into fun times
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 7,783
    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    We're about to have an utter loon as PM. Or, at best, someone prepared to act like a loon because she thinks it will advance her career.

    TalkTV hustings:

    * Liz Truss says 'jury's out' on whether Macron is friend or foe; Sunak says he's a friend

    * Sunak says LizTruss would make a better PM than Johnson; Truss says Johnson

    * Truss says energy bills are 'massive issue' but 'bunging money' at system is not answer.


    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1562892217228079105

    Graham Brady better not book any holidays this winter.
    I’ve not seen evidence of Truss somehow surprising “on the upside”

    She needs the loons onboard to survive in post. Therefore, she’ll be a loon

    It is LOL.

    The membership are about to elect IDS mark II to the premiership. It will one hapless mishap and gaffe and on-the-hoof bonkers policy announcement after another.

    As the gaffes mount she will redouble her efforts by making up even more bonkers quiet bat people nonsense to sell.

    Meanwhile the wall of economic shit will pour over her useless Cabinet.

    I am convinced there will be a leadership election next summer.

    At which we will all echo Mrs Duffy.
    This is more Mrs Brown's Boys than Mrs Duffy.
    Inexplicably popular and planning to be around for years to come?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 27,909
    HYUFD said:

    We're about to have an utter loon as PM. Or, at best, someone prepared to act like a loon because she thinks it will advance her career.

    TalkTV hustings:

    * Liz Truss says 'jury's out' on whether Macron is friend or foe; Sunak says he's a friend

    * Sunak says LizTruss would make a better PM than Johnson; Truss says Johnson

    * Truss says energy bills are 'massive issue' but 'bunging money' at system is not answer.


    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1562892217228079105

    Graham Brady better not book any holidays this winter.
    I’ve not seen evidence of Truss somehow surprising “on the upside”

    She needs the loons onboard to survive in post. Therefore, she’ll be a loon

    It is LOL.

    The membership are about to elect IDS mark II to the premiership. It will one hapless mishap and gaffe and on-the-hoof bonkers policy announcement after another.

    As the gaffes mount she will redouble her efforts by making up even more bonkers quiet bat people nonsense to sell.

    Meanwhile the wall of economic shit will pour over her useless Cabinet.

    I am convinced there will be a leadership election next summer.

    I’m starting to think she won’t take them into the election too. There will be like the coup against IDS, no member vote, and Wallace or Barclay, or someone similarly acceptable to most MPs will lead them into the general election.
    It would have to be Wallace by coronation a la Howard 2003 if she was replaced like IDS before the next election. We cannot have 2 leadership contests in 1 parliament
    Why not? Everything seems subordinate to whatever the 1922 committee want. No obvious reason to change.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 55,093

    It was her comment that she preferred Boris to Sunak that stood out, I thought. Can't see him having any role in a Truss government after that.

    I think that ship sailed several days ago.

    He has two choices: backbench and sit and quietly wait for the inevitable 'I told you so' moment as the IMF are called in or just sod off next month back to banking and IT and CA.

    As he does not need the money, might he be tempted to do the former?

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 104,912
    edited August 25
    nico679 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Truss doesn't know if Macron is friend or foe ? Really ?

    The UK deserves so much better than this constant cheap europhobia

    Putin is a foe, Al Assad, the Taliban
    but if you can't figure out if Macron is in the same category, you're really not fit to be a British Prime Minister
    https://twitter.com/Haggis_UK/status/1562887482881871874

    I can't imagine Biden, Scholz, Macron, Trudeau jumping to be friendly with her after this campaign at the next G7 summit. Truss needs to pray Meloni wins the next Italian election next month so she has a friend. She will have Zelensky of course but he is a bit preoccupied at present even if invited over Zoom
    It’s likely she will head the right wing coalition but they are no longer running on a platform of anti EU hysteria . The only party wanting an EU exit called Italexit is currently polling around 3%.

    Though Meloni has said she is a traditional conservative and would be a Tory if British, she is also firmly anti Woke like Truss and also anti Putin and a Eurosceptic even if not for pulling out completely.

    With most western nations now run by centre left liberals ie Biden, Trudeau, Macron, Sanchez, Albanese, Adern, Scholz etc, Meloni would offer a potential ally for Truss on the right
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 27,909

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    We're about to have an utter loon as PM. Or, at best, someone prepared to act like a loon because she thinks it will advance her career.

    TalkTV hustings:

    * Liz Truss says 'jury's out' on whether Macron is friend or foe; Sunak says he's a friend

    * Sunak says LizTruss would make a better PM than Johnson; Truss says Johnson

    * Truss says energy bills are 'massive issue' but 'bunging money' at system is not answer.


    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1562892217228079105

    Graham Brady better not book any holidays this winter.
    I’ve not seen evidence of Truss somehow surprising “on the upside”

    She needs the loons onboard to survive in post. Therefore, she’ll be a loon

    It is LOL.

    The membership are about to elect IDS mark II to the premiership. It will one hapless mishap and gaffe and on-the-hoof bonkers policy announcement after another.

    As the gaffes mount she will redouble her efforts by making up even more bonkers quiet bat people nonsense to sell.

    Meanwhile the wall of economic shit will pour over her useless Cabinet.

    I am convinced there will be a leadership election next summer.

    At which we will all echo Mrs Duffy.
    This is more Mrs Brown's Boys than Mrs Duffy.
    Inexplicably popular and planning to be around for years to come?
    That's Mrs Johnson's Boys I think.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 55,031
    HYUFD said:

    We're about to have an utter loon as PM. Or, at best, someone prepared to act like a loon because she thinks it will advance her career.

    TalkTV hustings:

    * Liz Truss says 'jury's out' on whether Macron is friend or foe; Sunak says he's a friend

    * Sunak says LizTruss would make a better PM than Johnson; Truss says Johnson

    * Truss says energy bills are 'massive issue' but 'bunging money' at system is not answer.


    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1562892217228079105

    Graham Brady better not book any holidays this winter.
    I’ve not seen evidence of Truss somehow surprising “on the upside”

    She needs the loons onboard to survive in post. Therefore, she’ll be a loon

    It is LOL.

    The membership are about to elect IDS mark II to the premiership. It will one hapless mishap and gaffe and on-the-hoof bonkers policy announcement after another.

    As the gaffes mount she will redouble her efforts by making up even more bonkers quiet bat people nonsense to sell.

    Meanwhile the wall of economic shit will pour over her useless Cabinet.

    I am convinced there will be a leadership election next summer.

    I’m starting to think she won’t take them into the election too. There will be like the coup against IDS, no member vote, and Wallace or Barclay, or someone similarly acceptable to most MPs will lead them into the general election.
    It would have to be Wallace by coronation a la Howard 2003 if she was replaced like IDS before the next election. We cannot have 2 leadership contests in 1 parliament
    Wallace will be off to head up NATO by then
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 7,783
    HYUFD said:

    We're about to have an utter loon as PM. Or, at best, someone prepared to act like a loon because she thinks it will advance her career.

    TalkTV hustings:

    * Liz Truss says 'jury's out' on whether Macron is friend or foe; Sunak says he's a friend

    * Sunak says LizTruss would make a better PM than Johnson; Truss says Johnson

    * Truss says energy bills are 'massive issue' but 'bunging money' at system is not answer.


    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1562892217228079105

    Graham Brady better not book any holidays this winter.
    I’ve not seen evidence of Truss somehow surprising “on the upside”

    She needs the loons onboard to survive in post. Therefore, she’ll be a loon

    It is LOL.

    The membership are about to elect IDS mark II to the premiership. It will one hapless mishap and gaffe and on-the-hoof bonkers policy announcement after another.

    As the gaffes mount she will redouble her efforts by making up even more bonkers quiet bat people nonsense to sell.

    Meanwhile the wall of economic shit will pour over her useless Cabinet.

    I am convinced there will be a leadership election next summer.

    I’m starting to think she won’t take them into the election too. There will be like the coup against IDS, no member vote, and Wallace or Barclay, or someone similarly acceptable to most MPs will lead them into the general election.
    It would have to be Wallace by coronation a la Howard 2003 if she was replaced like IDS before the next election. We cannot have 2 leadership contests in 1 parliament
    A PM by coronation? Hard to see that happening and the government getting away with it. Even Brown had a token opponent.

    The harder thing would be ditching Truss without making the party look stupid for having elected her so recently. Do the Conservatives have some tame doctors who can... ahem... advise a Prime Minister to take an extended rest break requiring them to pass the burdens of office to someone else?

    Purely for urgent medical reasons which shouldn't be discussed, of course. Patient confidentiality and all that.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 55,031
    nico679 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Truss doesn't know if Macron is friend or foe ? Really ?

    The UK deserves so much better than this constant cheap europhobia

    Putin is a foe, Al Assad, the Taliban
    but if you can't figure out if Macron is in the same category, you're really not fit to be a British Prime Minister
    https://twitter.com/Haggis_UK/status/1562887482881871874

    I can't imagine Biden, Scholz, Macron, Trudeau jumping to be friendly with her after this campaign at the next G7 summit. Truss needs to pray Meloni wins the next Italian election next month so she has a friend. She will have Zelensky of course but he is a bit preoccupied at present even if invited over Zoom
    It’s likely she will head the right wing coalition but they are no longer running on a platform of anti EU hysteria . The only party wanting an EU exit called Italexit is currently polling around 3%.

    Italy appears to be seeking a rapprochement with Putin
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 8,508
    edited August 25
    HYUFD said:

    We're about to have an utter loon as PM. Or, at best, someone prepared to act like a loon because she thinks it will advance her career.

    TalkTV hustings:

    * Liz Truss says 'jury's out' on whether Macron is friend or foe; Sunak says he's a friend

    * Sunak says LizTruss would make a better PM than Johnson; Truss says Johnson

    * Truss says energy bills are 'massive issue' but 'bunging money' at system is not answer.


    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1562892217228079105

    Graham Brady better not book any holidays this winter.
    I’ve not seen evidence of Truss somehow surprising “on the upside”

    She needs the loons onboard to survive in post. Therefore, she’ll be a loon

    It is LOL.

    The membership are about to elect IDS mark II to the premiership. It will one hapless mishap and gaffe and on-the-hoof bonkers policy announcement after another.

    As the gaffes mount she will redouble her efforts by making up even more bonkers quiet bat people nonsense to sell.

    Meanwhile the wall of economic shit will pour over her useless Cabinet.

    I am convinced there will be a leadership election next summer.

    I’m starting to think she won’t take them into the election too. There will be like the coup against IDS, no member vote, and Wallace or Barclay, or someone similarly acceptable to most MPs will lead them into the general election.
    It would have to be Wallace by coronation a la Howard 2003 if she was replaced like IDS before the next election. We cannot have 2 leadership contests in 1 parliament
    That’s what I said, Wallace, or Barclay or such like in a coronation. Probably similar time of year, Nov 23.

    It’s like my Dad said right at the start, it’s not just the next election to worry about, Leave office having completely shredded your credibility on the economy - that credibility won’t be rebuilt quickly in opposition - lack of trust in you on economy, health, cost of living, can play even bigger five years after throwing away incumbency bonus, you can actually lose more seats not gain them in subsequent elections, five years time and in ten years time when people remember the wrong headed decisions made in the last years of the spell in power even without all the opposition parties reminding them.

    Which is why, HY, I said below about PR. Give Labour and Lib `dems and SNP votes control of the commons for the next 15 years, which the record of PM Truss will, there can be all sorts of changes and all sorts of mountains for Conservative politics to climb to enjoy power like this again.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 28,512
    Pro_Rata said:

    Flint knapper or merely purveyor of look, squirrel filler, whenever a Tory embarrasses themselves.

    Which is increasingly frequently.

    You decide.

    Lol. You really think I come on here as part of a devious Tory plan to distract people from sub-par hustings?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 55,031

    We're about to have an utter loon as PM. Or, at best, someone prepared to act like a loon because she thinks it will advance her career.

    TalkTV hustings:

    * Liz Truss says 'jury's out' on whether Macron is friend or foe; Sunak says he's a friend

    * Sunak says LizTruss would make a better PM than Johnson; Truss says Johnson

    * Truss says energy bills are 'massive issue' but 'bunging money' at system is not answer.


    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1562892217228079105

    Graham Brady better not book any holidays this winter.
    I’ve not seen evidence of Truss somehow surprising “on the upside”

    She needs the loons onboard to survive in post. Therefore, she’ll be a loon

    It is LOL.

    The membership are about to elect IDS mark II to the premiership. It will one hapless mishap and gaffe and on-the-hoof bonkers policy announcement after another.

    As the gaffes mount she will redouble her efforts by making up even more bonkers quiet bat people nonsense to sell.

    Meanwhile the wall of economic shit will pour over her useless Cabinet.

    I am convinced there will be a leadership election next summer.

    I would wait for September to unfold which should be long enough to provide the answer whether she will sink or swim

    I have not committed to either as I have no idea but it will not be long starting a week on Monday

    I notice Sunak has confirmed he will vote for Truss's budget as 'he is a conservative' !!!!

    He says that now. But if Truss comes back with tax cuts only, he won’t.

    Then we’re into fun times
    If that is all she does it is over before it starts
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 55,093
    HYUFD said:

    We're about to have an utter loon as PM. Or, at best, someone prepared to act like a loon because she thinks it will advance her career.

    TalkTV hustings:

    * Liz Truss says 'jury's out' on whether Macron is friend or foe; Sunak says he's a friend

    * Sunak says LizTruss would make a better PM than Johnson; Truss says Johnson

    * Truss says energy bills are 'massive issue' but 'bunging money' at system is not answer.


    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1562892217228079105

    Graham Brady better not book any holidays this winter.
    I’ve not seen evidence of Truss somehow surprising “on the upside”

    She needs the loons onboard to survive in post. Therefore, she’ll be a loon

    It is LOL.

    The membership are about to elect IDS mark II to the premiership. It will one hapless mishap and gaffe and on-the-hoof bonkers policy announcement after another.

    As the gaffes mount she will redouble her efforts by making up even more bonkers quiet bat people nonsense to sell.

    Meanwhile the wall of economic shit will pour over her useless Cabinet.

    I am convinced there will be a leadership election next summer.

    I’m starting to think she won’t take them into the election too. There will be like the coup against IDS, no member vote, and Wallace or Barclay, or someone similarly acceptable to most MPs will lead them into the general election.
    It would have to be Wallace by coronation a la Howard 2003 if she was replaced like IDS before the next election. We cannot have 2 leadership contests in 1 parliament
    It is going to be so bad that that is exactly what MPs will do. They will be desperate.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 2,551
    Wow even the DT is admitting the truth .

    A record 1.2 million visas issued , immigration from the EU has collapsed and been replaced by a large spike in non EU immigration . 1.12 million non EU nationals is a record up 70% on pre Brexit levels . So that means only 80,000 visas were issued to EU nationals .
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 17,281

    murali_s said:

    Well done that woman. Nothing works in this country. As I keep saying, the Tories are turning this country into a stinking latrine.

    You seem to miss the point that Labour in Wales has been in power longer than the conservatives and ambulance services here are just as appalling
    You miss the point that your point is essentially a non-sequitur.
    Surely it implies that something other than political choices might be at play? I.e. covid stress on hospitals?
    The criticism is that “nothing works”.
    That’s entirely on the government of 12 years, much of which was spent delivering austerity aka failing to mend the roof.

    What Labour in Wales is doing (I am no fan) is really neither here nor there.

    At core, I am merely highlighting again BigG’s incessant Tory apologism.

    Brown trashed the economy and left us having 33% of government expenditure being borrowed.

    Yes it took a decade of austerity to fix that. To merge the conversation with one earlier it took forty to fifty years for some areas bombed by the Germans to recover from the damage inflicted, expecting in 12 years the government to be able to click their heels three times and wipe out the damage Brown is a bit rich.
    Brown did not trash the economy. The global financial crisis did, from which we were recovering until Osborne flatlined the economy with his Plan A.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 19,538

    HYUFD said:

    We're about to have an utter loon as PM. Or, at best, someone prepared to act like a loon because she thinks it will advance her career.

    TalkTV hustings:

    * Liz Truss says 'jury's out' on whether Macron is friend or foe; Sunak says he's a friend

    * Sunak says LizTruss would make a better PM than Johnson; Truss says Johnson

    * Truss says energy bills are 'massive issue' but 'bunging money' at system is not answer.


    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1562892217228079105

    Graham Brady better not book any holidays this winter.
    I’ve not seen evidence of Truss somehow surprising “on the upside”

    She needs the loons onboard to survive in post. Therefore, she’ll be a loon

    It is LOL.

    The membership are about to elect IDS mark II to the premiership. It will one hapless mishap and gaffe and on-the-hoof bonkers policy announcement after another.

    As the gaffes mount she will redouble her efforts by making up even more bonkers quiet bat people nonsense to sell.

    Meanwhile the wall of economic shit will pour over her useless Cabinet.

    I am convinced there will be a leadership election next summer.

    I’m starting to think she won’t take them into the election too. There will be like the coup against IDS, no member vote, and Wallace or Barclay, or someone similarly acceptable to most MPs will lead them into the general election.
    It would have to be Wallace by coronation a la Howard 2003 if she was replaced like IDS before the next election. We cannot have 2 leadership contests in 1 parliament
    It is going to be so bad that that is exactly what MPs will do. They will be desperate.
    Some mad fool will want to BBB.

    Bring Back Boris
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 55,031
    nico679 said:

    Wow even the DT is admitting the truth .

    A record 1.2 million visas issued , immigration from the EU has collapsed and been replaced by a large spike in non EU immigration . 1.12 million non EU nationals is a record up 70% on pre Brexit levels . So that means only 80,000 visas were issued to EU nationals .

    Good to see immigration from around the world
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 42,932

    Truss’s pathetic, embarrassing pandering to a crowd of xenophobic bigots does raise very serious questions about her judgment. She’s going to be asked about the Macron comments again and again - and she’s going to have to row back. Again.

    Where does this ridiculous, bed-wetting attitude to friction between allies come from? Macron has personally delivered a speech questioning whether the UK was still a friend and, in so many words, saying that the jury is out.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 55,031
    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    We're about to have an utter loon as PM. Or, at best, someone prepared to act like a loon because she thinks it will advance her career.

    TalkTV hustings:

    * Liz Truss says 'jury's out' on whether Macron is friend or foe; Sunak says he's a friend

    * Sunak says LizTruss would make a better PM than Johnson; Truss says Johnson

    * Truss says energy bills are 'massive issue' but 'bunging money' at system is not answer.


    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1562892217228079105

    Graham Brady better not book any holidays this winter.
    I’ve not seen evidence of Truss somehow surprising “on the upside”

    She needs the loons onboard to survive in post. Therefore, she’ll be a loon

    It is LOL.

    The membership are about to elect IDS mark II to the premiership. It will one hapless mishap and gaffe and on-the-hoof bonkers policy announcement after another.

    As the gaffes mount she will redouble her efforts by making up even more bonkers quiet bat people nonsense to sell.

    Meanwhile the wall of economic shit will pour over her useless Cabinet.

    I am convinced there will be a leadership election next summer.

    I’m starting to think she won’t take them into the election too. There will be like the coup against IDS, no member vote, and Wallace or Barclay, or someone similarly acceptable to most MPs will lead them into the general election.
    It would have to be Wallace by coronation a la Howard 2003 if she was replaced like IDS before the next election. We cannot have 2 leadership contests in 1 parliament
    It is going to be so bad that that is exactly what MPs will do. They will be desperate.
    Some mad fool will want to BBB.

    Bring Back Boris
    @HYUFD ?
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 2,551

    nico679 said:

    Wow even the DT is admitting the truth .

    A record 1.2 million visas issued , immigration from the EU has collapsed and been replaced by a large spike in non EU immigration . 1.12 million non EU nationals is a record up 70% on pre Brexit levels . So that means only 80,000 visas were issued to EU nationals .

    Good to see immigration from around the world
    Leavers didn’t vote for 1.12 million visas a year issued . Anyway at least we’ll not have to worry about not being able to find a good curry ! Patel actually told the truth for once , she said vote Brexit and we can ship in more curry chefs .
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 55,093

    murali_s said:

    Well done that woman. Nothing works in this country. As I keep saying, the Tories are turning this country into a stinking latrine.

    You seem to miss the point that Labour in Wales has been in power longer than the conservatives and ambulance services here are just as appalling
    You miss the point that your point is essentially a non-sequitur.
    Surely it implies that something other than political choices might be at play? I.e. covid stress on hospitals?
    The criticism is that “nothing works”.
    That’s entirely on the government of 12 years, much of which was spent delivering austerity aka failing to mend the roof.

    What Labour in Wales is doing (I am no fan) is really neither here nor there.

    At core, I am merely highlighting again BigG’s incessant Tory apologism.

    Brown trashed the economy and left us having 33% of government expenditure being borrowed.

    Yes it took a decade of austerity to fix that. To merge the conversation with one earlier it took forty to fifty years for some areas bombed by the Germans to recover from the damage inflicted, expecting in 12 years the government to be able to click their heels three times and wipe out the damage Brown is a bit rich.
    Brown did not trash the economy. The global financial crisis did, from which we were recovering until Osborne flatlined the economy with his Plan A.
    Brown saved the economy at the crucial G7 meeting when he banged heads together.

    Close your eyes and imagine the Financial Crisis hitting with queues outside banks to withdrawn money and Liz Truss in charge!!!!!

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 104,912

    HYUFD said:

    We're about to have an utter loon as PM. Or, at best, someone prepared to act like a loon because she thinks it will advance her career.

    TalkTV hustings:

    * Liz Truss says 'jury's out' on whether Macron is friend or foe; Sunak says he's a friend

    * Sunak says LizTruss would make a better PM than Johnson; Truss says Johnson

    * Truss says energy bills are 'massive issue' but 'bunging money' at system is not answer.


    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1562892217228079105

    Graham Brady better not book any holidays this winter.
    I’ve not seen evidence of Truss somehow surprising “on the upside”

    She needs the loons onboard to survive in post. Therefore, she’ll be a loon

    It is LOL.

    The membership are about to elect IDS mark II to the premiership. It will one hapless mishap and gaffe and on-the-hoof bonkers policy announcement after another.

    As the gaffes mount she will redouble her efforts by making up even more bonkers quiet bat people nonsense to sell.

    Meanwhile the wall of economic shit will pour over her useless Cabinet.

    I am convinced there will be a leadership election next summer.

    I’m starting to think she won’t take them into the election too. There will be like the coup against IDS, no member vote, and Wallace or Barclay, or someone similarly acceptable to most MPs will lead them into the general election.
    It would have to be Wallace by coronation a la Howard 2003 if she was replaced like IDS before the next election. We cannot have 2 leadership contests in 1 parliament
    Wallace will be off to head up NATO by then
    No he won't, for starters there is no vacancy anytime soon

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-03-23/nato-s-stoltenberg-set-to-stay-on-as-alliance-chief
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 10,431

    murali_s said:

    Well done that woman. Nothing works in this country. As I keep saying, the Tories are turning this country into a stinking latrine.

    You seem to miss the point that Labour in Wales has been in power longer than the conservatives and ambulance services here are just as appalling
    You miss the point that your point is essentially a non-sequitur.
    Surely it implies that something other than political choices might be at play? I.e. covid stress on hospitals?
    The criticism is that “nothing works”.
    That’s entirely on the government of 12 years, much of which was spent delivering austerity aka failing to mend the roof.

    What Labour in Wales is doing (I am no fan) is really neither here nor there.

    At core, I am merely highlighting again BigG’s incessant Tory apologism.

    Brown trashed the economy and left us having 33% of government expenditure being borrowed.

    Yes it took a decade of austerity to fix that. To merge the conversation with one earlier it took forty to fifty years for some areas bombed by the Germans to recover from the damage inflicted, expecting in 12 years the government to be able to click their heels three times and wipe out the damage Brown is a bit rich.
    Brown did not trash the economy. The global financial crisis did, from which we were recovering until Osborne flatlined the economy with his Plan A.
    Brown did not crash the economy, but he did preside over a culture of PFI that we are still paying for to this day. He also wrongly thought he had abolished boom and bust. His later spending exposed the country to the 2008 crash in a big way.
    You can definitely argue that the policies of the coalition were wrong. I think some of the issues we have now date back to that. The national economy is not the same as your personal finances, and running a country in the manner of a debtor trying to pay off their debts may not be the right approach.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 37,387

    Truss’s pathetic, embarrassing pandering to a crowd of xenophobic bigots does raise very serious questions about her judgment. She’s going to be asked about the Macron comments again and again - and she’s going to have to row back. Again.

    Where does this ridiculous, bed-wetting attitude to friction between allies come from? Macron has personally delivered a speech questioning whether the UK was still a friend and, in so many words, saying that the jury is out.
    If the UK’s foreign secretary will not say that France’s head of state is a friend then it’s hard to see how you can describe the two countries as allies. Vladimir Putin will be delighted.

  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 55,031
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    We're about to have an utter loon as PM. Or, at best, someone prepared to act like a loon because she thinks it will advance her career.

    TalkTV hustings:

    * Liz Truss says 'jury's out' on whether Macron is friend or foe; Sunak says he's a friend

    * Sunak says LizTruss would make a better PM than Johnson; Truss says Johnson

    * Truss says energy bills are 'massive issue' but 'bunging money' at system is not answer.


    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1562892217228079105

    Graham Brady better not book any holidays this winter.
    I’ve not seen evidence of Truss somehow surprising “on the upside”

    She needs the loons onboard to survive in post. Therefore, she’ll be a loon

    It is LOL.

    The membership are about to elect IDS mark II to the premiership. It will one hapless mishap and gaffe and on-the-hoof bonkers policy announcement after another.

    As the gaffes mount she will redouble her efforts by making up even more bonkers quiet bat people nonsense to sell.

    Meanwhile the wall of economic shit will pour over her useless Cabinet.

    I am convinced there will be a leadership election next summer.

    I’m starting to think she won’t take them into the election too. There will be like the coup against IDS, no member vote, and Wallace or Barclay, or someone similarly acceptable to most MPs will lead them into the general election.
    It would have to be Wallace by coronation a la Howard 2003 if she was replaced like IDS before the next election. We cannot have 2 leadership contests in 1 parliament
    Wallace will be off to head up NATO by then
    No he won't, for starters there is no vacancy anytime soon

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-03-23/nato-s-stoltenberg-set-to-stay-on-as-alliance-chief
    I am perfectly aware of the delay which is ideal for Wallace
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 10,431
    nico679 said:

    nico679 said:

    Wow even the DT is admitting the truth .

    A record 1.2 million visas issued , immigration from the EU has collapsed and been replaced by a large spike in non EU immigration . 1.12 million non EU nationals is a record up 70% on pre Brexit levels . So that means only 80,000 visas were issued to EU nationals .

    Good to see immigration from around the world
    Leavers didn’t vote for 1.12 million visas a year issued . Anyway at least we’ll not have to worry about not being able to find a good curry ! Patel actually told the truth for once , she said vote Brexit and we can ship in more curry chefs .
    Wrong on many levels. Visas issued means we have control over who comes.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 19,538

    murali_s said:

    Well done that woman. Nothing works in this country. As I keep saying, the Tories are turning this country into a stinking latrine.

    You seem to miss the point that Labour in Wales has been in power longer than the conservatives and ambulance services here are just as appalling
    You miss the point that your point is essentially a non-sequitur.
    Surely it implies that something other than political choices might be at play? I.e. covid stress on hospitals?
    The criticism is that “nothing works”.
    That’s entirely on the government of 12 years, much of which was spent delivering austerity aka failing to mend the roof.

    What Labour in Wales is doing (I am no fan) is really neither here nor there.

    At core, I am merely highlighting again BigG’s incessant Tory apologism.

    Brown trashed the economy and left us having 33% of government expenditure being borrowed.

    Yes it took a decade of austerity to fix that. To merge the conversation with one earlier it took forty to fifty years for some areas bombed by the Germans to recover from the damage inflicted, expecting in 12 years the government to be able to click their heels three times and wipe out the damage Brown is a bit rich.
    Brown did not trash the economy. The global financial crisis did, from which we were recovering until Osborne flatlined the economy with his Plan A.
    Brown did not crash the economy, but he did preside over a culture of PFI that we are still paying for to this day. He also wrongly thought he had abolished boom and bust. His later spending exposed the country to the 2008 crash in a big way.
    You can definitely argue that the policies of the coalition were wrong. I think some of the issues we have now date back to that. The national economy is not the same as your personal finances, and running a country in the manner of a debtor trying to pay off their debts may not be the right approach.
    The Tories promised stability and to protect our AAA rating. How is that going?

    Let's face it, we're an absolute basket case under the Tories.
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 877
    In their Colorado Senate candidate, the Republicans have found another candidate from a humble background: "A political novice, O’Dea is a construction magnate and self-made executive with deep roots in Colorado. He dropped out of college to set off on his own to build a company that now employs “300 families,” as he put it during an interview in his campaign office."
    source: https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/08/20/colorado-senate-race-sundaytake/

    Incidentally, O'Dea is a moderate on abortion. For more, here's his campaign site: https://www.joeodea.com/
    From it, I learned that he was: "Adopted at birth and raised by a Denver police officer and a loving mother, Joe became a union carpenter at a young age."
  • MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 875

    nico679 said:

    Wow even the DT is admitting the truth .

    A record 1.2 million visas issued , immigration from the EU has collapsed and been replaced by a large spike in non EU immigration . 1.12 million non EU nationals is a record up 70% on pre Brexit levels . So that means only 80,000 visas were issued to EU nationals .

    Good to see immigration from around the world
    Not on purely economic grounds.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 3,813

    nico679 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Truss doesn't know if Macron is friend or foe ? Really ?

    The UK deserves so much better than this constant cheap europhobia

    Putin is a foe, Al Assad, the Taliban
    but if you can't figure out if Macron is in the same category, you're really not fit to be a British Prime Minister
    https://twitter.com/Haggis_UK/status/1562887482881871874

    I can't imagine Biden, Scholz, Macron, Trudeau jumping to be friendly with her after this campaign at the next G7 summit. Truss needs to pray Meloni wins the next Italian election next month so she has a friend. She will have Zelensky of course but he is a bit preoccupied at present even if invited over Zoom
    It’s likely she will head the right wing coalition but they are no longer running on a platform of anti EU hysteria . The only party wanting an EU exit called Italexit is currently polling around 3%.

    Italy appears to be seeking a rapprochement with Putin
    It varies both within the right coalition and left fragments. Meloni seems strong on supporting Ukraine and Berlusconi's former favourability towards Putin has long gone icy. Salvini appears more the lapdog, cooing lovingly about Hungary today!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 104,912

    HYUFD said:

    We're about to have an utter loon as PM. Or, at best, someone prepared to act like a loon because she thinks it will advance her career.

    TalkTV hustings:

    * Liz Truss says 'jury's out' on whether Macron is friend or foe; Sunak says he's a friend

    * Sunak says LizTruss would make a better PM than Johnson; Truss says Johnson

    * Truss says energy bills are 'massive issue' but 'bunging money' at system is not answer.


    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1562892217228079105

    Graham Brady better not book any holidays this winter.
    I’ve not seen evidence of Truss somehow surprising “on the upside”

    She needs the loons onboard to survive in post. Therefore, she’ll be a loon

    It is LOL.

    The membership are about to elect IDS mark II to the premiership. It will one hapless mishap and gaffe and on-the-hoof bonkers policy announcement after another.

    As the gaffes mount she will redouble her efforts by making up even more bonkers quiet bat people nonsense to sell.

    Meanwhile the wall of economic shit will pour over her useless Cabinet.

    I am convinced there will be a leadership election next summer.

    I’m starting to think she won’t take them into the election too. There will be like the coup against IDS, no member vote, and Wallace or Barclay, or someone similarly acceptable to most MPs will lead them into the general election.
    It would have to be Wallace by coronation a la Howard 2003 if she was replaced like IDS before the next election. We cannot have 2 leadership contests in 1 parliament
    That’s what I said, Wallace, or Barclay or such like in a coronation. Probably similar time of year, Nov 23.

    It’s like my Dad said right at the start, it’s not just the next election to worry about, Leave office having completely shredded your credibility on the economy - that credibility won’t be rebuilt quickly in opposition - lack of trust in you on economy, health, cost of living, can play even bigger five years after throwing away incumbency bonus, you can actually lose more seats not gain them in subsequent elections, five years time and in ten years time when people remember the wrong headed decisions made in the last years of the spell in power even without all the opposition parties reminding them.

    Which is why, HY, I said below about PR. Give Labour and Lib `dems and SNP votes control of the commons for the next 15 years, which the record of PM Truss will, there can be all sorts of changes and all sorts of mountains for Conservative politics to climb to enjoy power like this again.
    If the economy is as bad as that then there would be frequent changes of government. A Labour, LD and SNP government of high inflation and frequent strikes would swiftly see a swing back to the right, even under PR. Farage would also of course win dozens of seats with PR
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 55,031
    nico679 said:

    nico679 said:

    Wow even the DT is admitting the truth .

    A record 1.2 million visas issued , immigration from the EU has collapsed and been replaced by a large spike in non EU immigration . 1.12 million non EU nationals is a record up 70% on pre Brexit levels . So that means only 80,000 visas were issued to EU nationals .

    Good to see immigration from around the world
    Leavers didn’t vote for 1.12 million visas a year issued . Anyway at least we’ll not have to worry about not being able to find a good curry ! Patel actually told the truth for once , she said vote Brexit and we can ship in more curry chefs .
    Why are you so upset about people's from across the world are being welcomed into the UK
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 18,474

    I wonder how the PB Tory massive would reach if Macron said that Truss (or even Johnson) was yet to be proven as an non-foe.

    We’re at risk of heading back into a Brexity “bomb Paris” phase, which never really worked that well.

    Some of us were bomb Paris long before Brexit.
    Your new Prime Minister is growing on you then.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 104,912

    nico679 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Truss doesn't know if Macron is friend or foe ? Really ?

    The UK deserves so much better than this constant cheap europhobia

    Putin is a foe, Al Assad, the Taliban
    but if you can't figure out if Macron is in the same category, you're really not fit to be a British Prime Minister
    https://twitter.com/Haggis_UK/status/1562887482881871874

    I can't imagine Biden, Scholz, Macron, Trudeau jumping to be friendly with her after this campaign at the next G7 summit. Truss needs to pray Meloni wins the next Italian election next month so she has a friend. She will have Zelensky of course but he is a bit preoccupied at present even if invited over Zoom
    It’s likely she will head the right wing coalition but they are no longer running on a platform of anti EU hysteria . The only party wanting an EU exit called Italexit is currently polling around 3%.

    Italy appears to be seeking a rapprochement with Putin
    Under Salvini maybe but Meloni is far more anti Putin than Salvini would have been
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 42,932

    Truss’s pathetic, embarrassing pandering to a crowd of xenophobic bigots does raise very serious questions about her judgment. She’s going to be asked about the Macron comments again and again - and she’s going to have to row back. Again.

    Where does this ridiculous, bed-wetting attitude to friction between allies come from? Macron has personally delivered a speech questioning whether the UK was still a friend and, in so many words, saying that the jury is out.
    If the UK’s foreign secretary will not say that France’s head of state is a friend then it’s hard to see how you can describe the two countries as allies. Vladimir Putin will be delighted.
    As I said, Macron has personally questioned whether the UK is a friend. Where is your condemnation of him, or does he get a pass because he's French and therefore automatically much more sophisticated and adept at the diplomatic arts?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 17,281

    murali_s said:

    Well done that woman. Nothing works in this country. As I keep saying, the Tories are turning this country into a stinking latrine.

    You seem to miss the point that Labour in Wales has been in power longer than the conservatives and ambulance services here are just as appalling
    You miss the point that your point is essentially a non-sequitur.
    Surely it implies that something other than political choices might be at play? I.e. covid stress on hospitals?
    The criticism is that “nothing works”.
    That’s entirely on the government of 12 years, much of which was spent delivering austerity aka failing to mend the roof.

    What Labour in Wales is doing (I am no fan) is really neither here nor there.

    At core, I am merely highlighting again BigG’s incessant Tory apologism.

    Brown trashed the economy and left us having 33% of government expenditure being borrowed.

    Yes it took a decade of austerity to fix that. To merge the conversation with one earlier it took forty to fifty years for some areas bombed by the Germans to recover from the damage inflicted, expecting in 12 years the government to be able to click their heels three times and wipe out the damage Brown is a bit rich.
    Brown did not trash the economy. The global financial crisis did, from which we were recovering until Osborne flatlined the economy with his Plan A.
    Brown did not crash the economy, but he did preside over a culture of PFI that we are still paying for to this day. He also wrongly thought he had abolished boom and bust. His later spending exposed the country to the 2008 crash in a big way.
    You can definitely argue that the policies of the coalition were wrong. I think some of the issues we have now date back to that. The national economy is not the same as your personal finances, and running a country in the manner of a debtor trying to pay off their debts may not be the right approach.
    Yes, I agree with you on PFI. Brown *should* be excoriated for PFI. Not about spending though; what exposed us to the GFC was simply that Britain had (and has) a larger financial centre than other countries. Agree also on the inappropriateness of the personal finance metaphor.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 19,538
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    We're about to have an utter loon as PM. Or, at best, someone prepared to act like a loon because she thinks it will advance her career.

    TalkTV hustings:

    * Liz Truss says 'jury's out' on whether Macron is friend or foe; Sunak says he's a friend

    * Sunak says LizTruss would make a better PM than Johnson; Truss says Johnson

    * Truss says energy bills are 'massive issue' but 'bunging money' at system is not answer.


    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1562892217228079105

    Graham Brady better not book any holidays this winter.
    I’ve not seen evidence of Truss somehow surprising “on the upside”

    She needs the loons onboard to survive in post. Therefore, she’ll be a loon

    It is LOL.

    The membership are about to elect IDS mark II to the premiership. It will one hapless mishap and gaffe and on-the-hoof bonkers policy announcement after another.

    As the gaffes mount she will redouble her efforts by making up even more bonkers quiet bat people nonsense to sell.

    Meanwhile the wall of economic shit will pour over her useless Cabinet.

    I am convinced there will be a leadership election next summer.

    I’m starting to think she won’t take them into the election too. There will be like the coup against IDS, no member vote, and Wallace or Barclay, or someone similarly acceptable to most MPs will lead them into the general election.
    It would have to be Wallace by coronation a la Howard 2003 if she was replaced like IDS before the next election. We cannot have 2 leadership contests in 1 parliament
    That’s what I said, Wallace, or Barclay or such like in a coronation. Probably similar time of year, Nov 23.

    It’s like my Dad said right at the start, it’s not just the next election to worry about, Leave office having completely shredded your credibility on the economy - that credibility won’t be rebuilt quickly in opposition - lack of trust in you on economy, health, cost of living, can play even bigger five years after throwing away incumbency bonus, you can actually lose more seats not gain them in subsequent elections, five years time and in ten years time when people remember the wrong headed decisions made in the last years of the spell in power even without all the opposition parties reminding them.

    Which is why, HY, I said below about PR. Give Labour and Lib `dems and SNP votes control of the commons for the next 15 years, which the record of PM Truss will, there can be all sorts of changes and all sorts of mountains for Conservative politics to climb to enjoy power like this again.
    If the economy is as bad as that then there would be frequent changes of government. A Labour, LD and SNP government of high inflation and frequent strikes would swiftly see a swing back to the right, even under PR. Farage would also of course win dozens of seats with PR
    I guess you prefer to stick with the current Tory high inflation and frequent strikes.
  • PM Trussticles is going to be fun
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 2,551

    nico679 said:

    nico679 said:

    Wow even the DT is admitting the truth .

    A record 1.2 million visas issued , immigration from the EU has collapsed and been replaced by a large spike in non EU immigration . 1.12 million non EU nationals is a record up 70% on pre Brexit levels . So that means only 80,000 visas were issued to EU nationals .

    Good to see immigration from around the world
    Leavers didn’t vote for 1.12 million visas a year issued . Anyway at least we’ll not have to worry about not being able to find a good curry ! Patel actually told the truth for once , she said vote Brexit and we can ship in more curry chefs .
    Wrong on many levels. Visas issued means we have control over who comes.
    I was there and saw the EU ref campaign . This revisionism is sad to see but par for the course . Grannie and grandad fucked their grand children’s EU freedom of movement so that they can have their arses wiped by non EU nationals !

    Immigration is now higher , wtf was the point of Brexit if all the alleged stress on services is still there . Has Leave delivered one thing it promised !
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 55,031
    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    We're about to have an utter loon as PM. Or, at best, someone prepared to act like a loon because she thinks it will advance her career.

    TalkTV hustings:

    * Liz Truss says 'jury's out' on whether Macron is friend or foe; Sunak says he's a friend

    * Sunak says LizTruss would make a better PM than Johnson; Truss says Johnson

    * Truss says energy bills are 'massive issue' but 'bunging money' at system is not answer.


    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1562892217228079105

    Graham Brady better not book any holidays this winter.
    I’ve not seen evidence of Truss somehow surprising “on the upside”

    She needs the loons onboard to survive in post. Therefore, she’ll be a loon

    It is LOL.

    The membership are about to elect IDS mark II to the premiership. It will one hapless mishap and gaffe and on-the-hoof bonkers policy announcement after another.

    As the gaffes mount she will redouble her efforts by making up even more bonkers quiet bat people nonsense to sell.

    Meanwhile the wall of economic shit will pour over her useless Cabinet.

    I am convinced there will be a leadership election next summer.

    I’m starting to think she won’t take them into the election too. There will be like the coup against IDS, no member vote, and Wallace or Barclay, or someone similarly acceptable to most MPs will lead them into the general election.
    It would have to be Wallace by coronation a la Howard 2003 if she was replaced like IDS before the next election. We cannot have 2 leadership contests in 1 parliament
    That’s what I said, Wallace, or Barclay or such like in a coronation. Probably similar time of year, Nov 23.

    It’s like my Dad said right at the start, it’s not just the next election to worry about, Leave office having completely shredded your credibility on the economy - that credibility won’t be rebuilt quickly in opposition - lack of trust in you on economy, health, cost of living, can play even bigger five years after throwing away incumbency bonus, you can actually lose more seats not gain them in subsequent elections, five years time and in ten years time when people remember the wrong headed decisions made in the last years of the spell in power even without all the opposition parties reminding them.

    Which is why, HY, I said below about PR. Give Labour and Lib `dems and SNP votes control of the commons for the next 15 years, which the record of PM Truss will, there can be all sorts of changes and all sorts of mountains for Conservative politics to climb to enjoy power like this again.
    If the economy is as bad as that then there would be frequent changes of government. A Labour, LD and SNP government of high inflation and frequent strikes would swiftly see a swing back to the right, even under PR. Farage would also of course win dozens of seats with PR
    I guess you prefer to stick with the current Tory high inflation and frequent strikes.
    Is the high inflation across Europe and elsewhere 'Tory high inflation' or actually 'Putin's evil war' against Ukraine
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 37,387

    Truss’s pathetic, embarrassing pandering to a crowd of xenophobic bigots does raise very serious questions about her judgment. She’s going to be asked about the Macron comments again and again - and she’s going to have to row back. Again.

    Where does this ridiculous, bed-wetting attitude to friction between allies come from? Macron has personally delivered a speech questioning whether the UK was still a friend and, in so many words, saying that the jury is out.
    If the UK’s foreign secretary will not say that France’s head of state is a friend then it’s hard to see how you can describe the two countries as allies. Vladimir Putin will be delighted.
    As I said, Macron has personally questioned whether the UK is a friend. Where is your condemnation of him, or does he get a pass because he's French and therefore
    automatically much more sophisticated and adept at the diplomatic arts?
    I haven’t seen or read the Macron speech. I’d be happy to comment on it once I have. Can you link?

    Assuming he did say it as you describe, though, we are clearly no longer allies.

  • kjhkjh Posts: 7,871

    kjh said:

    Cookie said:

    Never mind any of this shit, i've just had to evict the biggest spider ive ever seen. Fucking thing might as well have been Shelob. Nothing gets that big without committing atrocities.
    If it gets back in.......
    Pray for me tonight peebee.

    Please post early tomorrow, so that we know you’ve made it through the night… :D
    I've got my bravest teddy on first watch. Veteran of the 'funny looking gross insect' incident
    What you need is a cat.
    If you have never seen a cat dealing with a September spider you have missed an experience. Chewing away, puzzled look on its face - "I - assume - I was supposed to do this, but I'm honestly not finding it as rewarding as I anticipated".
    I put two whoopers out yesterday and our dog ate them before they could get away, although one put up a sterling effort to escape. He also eats wasps and never seems to come to any harm.
    Right you all need to send your furries to me. Im conscripting furry friends to deal with what im increasingly inclined to believe are Macron voting French giant spiders
    If you had our dog a few spiders will be the least of your problems. He will steal your dinner and run around your flat with the loo brush in his mouth just for starters.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 28,512
    nico679 said:

    nico679 said:

    Wow even the DT is admitting the truth .

    A record 1.2 million visas issued , immigration from the EU has collapsed and been replaced by a large spike in non EU immigration . 1.12 million non EU nationals is a record up 70% on pre Brexit levels . So that means only 80,000 visas were issued to EU nationals .

    Good to see immigration from around the world
    Leavers didn’t vote for 1.12 million visas a year issued . Anyway at least we’ll not have to worry about not being able to find a good curry ! Patel actually told the truth for once , she said vote Brexit and we can ship in more curry chefs .
    Er, the reason we have issued so many more visas is BECAUSE we no longer have unrestricted Free Movement. So we can take back control of the influx of workers: by issuing visas as we wish (EU citizens didn’t need them)

    This is an example of Brexit doing exactly what was promised

  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 10,431

    murali_s said:

    Well done that woman. Nothing works in this country. As I keep saying, the Tories are turning this country into a stinking latrine.

    You seem to miss the point that Labour in Wales has been in power longer than the conservatives and ambulance services here are just as appalling
    You miss the point that your point is essentially a non-sequitur.
    Surely it implies that something other than political choices might be at play? I.e. covid stress on hospitals?
    The criticism is that “nothing works”.
    That’s entirely on the government of 12 years, much of which was spent delivering austerity aka failing to mend the roof.

    What Labour in Wales is doing (I am no fan) is really neither here nor there.

    At core, I am merely highlighting again BigG’s incessant Tory apologism.

    Brown trashed the economy and left us having 33% of government expenditure being borrowed.

    Yes it took a decade of austerity to fix that. To merge the conversation with one earlier it took forty to fifty years for some areas bombed by the Germans to recover from the damage inflicted, expecting in 12 years the government to be able to click their heels three times and wipe out the damage Brown is a bit rich.
    Brown did not trash the economy. The global financial crisis did, from which we were recovering until Osborne flatlined the economy with his Plan A.
    Brown did not crash the economy, but he did preside over a culture of PFI that we are still paying for to this day. He also wrongly thought he had abolished boom and bust. His later spending exposed the country to the 2008 crash in a big way.
    You can definitely argue that the policies of the coalition were wrong. I think some of the issues we have now date back to that. The national economy is not the same as your personal finances, and running a country in the manner of a debtor trying to pay off their debts may not be the right approach.
    Yes, I agree with you on PFI. Brown *should* be excoriated for PFI. Not about spending though; what exposed us to the GFC was simply that Britain had (and has) a larger financial centre than other countries. Agree also on the inappropriateness of the personal finance metaphor.
    The evils of PFI never get mentioned, and I think they should. Hospital trusts are still paying eye watering costs because of Brown.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 17,281

    Truss’s pathetic, embarrassing pandering to a crowd of xenophobic bigots does raise very serious questions about her judgment. She’s going to be asked about the Macron comments again and again - and she’s going to have to row back. Again.

    Where does this ridiculous, bed-wetting attitude to friction between allies come from? Macron has personally delivered a speech questioning whether the UK was still a friend and, in so many words, saying that the jury is out.
    If the UK’s foreign secretary will not say that France’s head of state is a friend then it’s hard to see how you can describe the two countries as allies. Vladimir Putin will be delighted.
    As I said, Macron has personally questioned whether the UK is a friend. Where is your condemnation of him, or does he get a pass because he's French and therefore automatically much more sophisticated and adept at the diplomatic arts?
    Whether or not Macron is a friend, France is not our foe. Relations between our countries, and between our leaders, should be friendly even if they are not personal friends (and why would they be?).
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 27,909
    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    Cookie said:

    Never mind any of this shit, i've just had to evict the biggest spider ive ever seen. Fucking thing might as well have been Shelob. Nothing gets that big without committing atrocities.
    If it gets back in.......
    Pray for me tonight peebee.

    Please post early tomorrow, so that we know you’ve made it through the night… :D
    I've got my bravest teddy on first watch. Veteran of the 'funny looking gross insect' incident
    What you need is a cat.
    If you have never seen a cat dealing with a September spider you have missed an experience. Chewing away, puzzled look on its face - "I - assume - I was supposed to do this, but I'm honestly not finding it as rewarding as I anticipated".
    I put two whoopers out yesterday and our dog ate them before they could get away, although one put up a sterling effort to escape. He also eats wasps and never seems to come to any harm.
    Right you all need to send your furries to me. Im conscripting furry friends to deal with what im increasingly inclined to believe are Macron voting French giant spiders
    If you had our dog a few spiders will be the least of your problems. He will steal your dinner and run around your flat with the loo brush in his mouth just for starters.
    Is he a spaniel?
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 8,250

    nico679 said:

    nico679 said:

    Wow even the DT is admitting the truth .

    A record 1.2 million visas issued , immigration from the EU has collapsed and been replaced by a large spike in non EU immigration . 1.12 million non EU nationals is a record up 70% on pre Brexit levels . So that means only 80,000 visas were issued to EU nationals .

    Good to see immigration from around the world
    Leavers didn’t vote for 1.12 million visas a year issued . Anyway at least we’ll not have to worry about not being able to find a good curry ! Patel actually told the truth for once , she said vote Brexit and we can ship in more curry chefs .
    Why are you so upset about people's from across the world are being welcomed into the UK
    It's terrible for democracy because it shows Brexit was sold to many on a false prospectus. Moreover if a lot of Leavers had realized the immigration stuff was a con they might have voted Remain instead and we'd have hung on to the good bits of EU membership.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 27,909

    PM Trussticles is going to be fun

    A reference to the Titanic, no doubt.

    https://oceanexplorer.noaa.gov/explorations/03titanic/rusticles/rusticles.html
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 2,551
    Leon said:

    nico679 said:

    nico679 said:

    Wow even the DT is admitting the truth .

    A record 1.2 million visas issued , immigration from the EU has collapsed and been replaced by a large spike in non EU immigration . 1.12 million non EU nationals is a record up 70% on pre Brexit levels . So that means only 80,000 visas were issued to EU nationals .

    Good to see immigration from around the world
    Leavers didn’t vote for 1.12 million visas a year issued . Anyway at least we’ll not have to worry about not being able to find a good curry ! Patel actually told the truth for once , she said vote Brexit and we can ship in more curry chefs .
    Er, the reason we have issued so many more visas is BECAUSE we no longer have unrestricted Free Movement. So we can take back control of the influx of workers: by issuing visas as we wish (EU citizens didn’t need them)

    This is an example of Brexit doing exactly what was promised

    Oh come on stop this nonsense . You and everyone on here know Leave voters thought immigration was going to come down . The right wing papers didn’t say vote Brexit to keep immigration high .
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 19,934
    Leon said:

    nico679 said:

    nico679 said:

    Wow even the DT is admitting the truth .

    A record 1.2 million visas issued , immigration from the EU has collapsed and been replaced by a large spike in non EU immigration . 1.12 million non EU nationals is a record up 70% on pre Brexit levels . So that means only 80,000 visas were issued to EU nationals .

    Good to see immigration from around the world
    Leavers didn’t vote for 1.12 million visas a year issued . Anyway at least we’ll not have to worry about not being able to find a good curry ! Patel actually told the truth for once , she said vote Brexit and we can ship in more curry chefs .
    Er, the reason we have issued so many more visas is BECAUSE we no longer have unrestricted Free Movement. So we can take back control of the influx of workers: by issuing visas as we wish (EU citizens didn’t need them)

    This is an example of Brexit doing exactly what was promised

    Most people would probably agree that the population of the UK was just right in the 1990s at around 58 million people.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 17,281

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    We're about to have an utter loon as PM. Or, at best, someone prepared to act like a loon because she thinks it will advance her career.

    TalkTV hustings:

    * Liz Truss says 'jury's out' on whether Macron is friend or foe; Sunak says he's a friend

    * Sunak says LizTruss would make a better PM than Johnson; Truss says Johnson

    * Truss says energy bills are 'massive issue' but 'bunging money' at system is not answer.


    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1562892217228079105

    Graham Brady better not book any holidays this winter.
    I’ve not seen evidence of Truss somehow surprising “on the upside”

    She needs the loons onboard to survive in post. Therefore, she’ll be a loon

    It is LOL.

    The membership are about to elect IDS mark II to the premiership. It will one hapless mishap and gaffe and on-the-hoof bonkers policy announcement after another.

    As the gaffes mount she will redouble her efforts by making up even more bonkers quiet bat people nonsense to sell.

    Meanwhile the wall of economic shit will pour over her useless Cabinet.

    I am convinced there will be a leadership election next summer.

    I’m starting to think she won’t take them into the election too. There will be like the coup against IDS, no member vote, and Wallace or Barclay, or someone similarly acceptable to most MPs will lead them into the general election.
    It would have to be Wallace by coronation a la Howard 2003 if she was replaced like IDS before the next election. We cannot have 2 leadership contests in 1 parliament
    That’s what I said, Wallace, or Barclay or such like in a coronation. Probably similar time of year, Nov 23.

    It’s like my Dad said right at the start, it’s not just the next election to worry about, Leave office having completely shredded your credibility on the economy - that credibility won’t be rebuilt quickly in opposition - lack of trust in you on economy, health, cost of living, can play even bigger five years after throwing away incumbency bonus, you can actually lose more seats not gain them in subsequent elections, five years time and in ten years time when people remember the wrong headed decisions made in the last years of the spell in power even without all the opposition parties reminding them.

    Which is why, HY, I said below about PR. Give Labour and Lib `dems and SNP votes control of the commons for the next 15 years, which the record of PM Truss will, there can be all sorts of changes and all sorts of mountains for Conservative politics to climb to enjoy power like this again.
    If the economy is as bad as that then there would be frequent changes of government. A Labour, LD and SNP government of high inflation and frequent strikes would swiftly see a swing back to the right, even under PR. Farage would also of course win dozens of seats with PR
    I guess you prefer to stick with the current Tory high inflation and frequent strikes.
    Is the high inflation across Europe and elsewhere 'Tory high inflation' or actually 'Putin's evil war' against Ukraine
    Do not forget disruption to supply chains caused by Covid and especially by China's lockdowns.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 42,932

    Truss’s pathetic, embarrassing pandering to a crowd of xenophobic bigots does raise very serious questions about her judgment. She’s going to be asked about the Macron comments again and again - and she’s going to have to row back. Again.

    Where does this ridiculous, bed-wetting attitude to friction between allies come from? Macron has personally delivered a speech questioning whether the UK was still a friend and, in so many words, saying that the jury is out.
    If the UK’s foreign secretary will not say that France’s head of state is a friend then it’s hard to see how you can describe the two countries as allies. Vladimir Putin will be delighted.
    As I said, Macron has personally questioned whether the UK is a friend. Where is your condemnation of him, or does he get a pass because he's French and therefore
    automatically much more sophisticated and adept at the diplomatic arts?
    I haven’t seen or read the Macron speech. I’d be happy to comment on it once I have. Can you link?

    Assuming he did say it as you describe, though, we are clearly no longer allies.

    He linked issues like licences for French fishermen to "remaining friends" with the UK.

    "Qu’il s’agisse de la mise en œuvre du protocole sur l’Irlande du Nord ou de droits de nos pêcheurs, comme il s’agira d’ailleurs d’immanquables sujets de discussions à venir. Soyons fermes et clairs, pour que les engagements pris soient tenus. C'est la condition pour pouvoir rester amis."

    https://presidence-francaise.consilium.europa.eu/fr/actualites/discours-du-president-de-la-republique-devant-le-parlement-europeen-strasbourg-le-mercredi-19-janvier-2022/
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 55,031

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    We're about to have an utter loon as PM. Or, at best, someone prepared to act like a loon because she thinks it will advance her career.

    TalkTV hustings:

    * Liz Truss says 'jury's out' on whether Macron is friend or foe; Sunak says he's a friend

    * Sunak says LizTruss would make a better PM than Johnson; Truss says Johnson

    * Truss says energy bills are 'massive issue' but 'bunging money' at system is not answer.


    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1562892217228079105

    Graham Brady better not book any holidays this winter.
    I’ve not seen evidence of Truss somehow surprising “on the upside”

    She needs the loons onboard to survive in post. Therefore, she’ll be a loon

    It is LOL.

    The membership are about to elect IDS mark II to the premiership. It will one hapless mishap and gaffe and on-the-hoof bonkers policy announcement after another.

    As the gaffes mount she will redouble her efforts by making up even more bonkers quiet bat people nonsense to sell.

    Meanwhile the wall of economic shit will pour over her useless Cabinet.

    I am convinced there will be a leadership election next summer.

    I’m starting to think she won’t take them into the election too. There will be like the coup against IDS, no member vote, and Wallace or Barclay, or someone similarly acceptable to most MPs will lead them into the general election.
    It would have to be Wallace by coronation a la Howard 2003 if she was replaced like IDS before the next election. We cannot have 2 leadership contests in 1 parliament
    That’s what I said, Wallace, or Barclay or such like in a coronation. Probably similar time of year, Nov 23.

    It’s like my Dad said right at the start, it’s not just the next election to worry about, Leave office having completely shredded your credibility on the economy - that credibility won’t be rebuilt quickly in opposition - lack of trust in you on economy, health, cost of living, can play even bigger five years after throwing away incumbency bonus, you can actually lose more seats not gain them in subsequent elections, five years time and in ten years time when people remember the wrong headed decisions made in the last years of the spell in power even without all the opposition parties reminding them.

    Which is why, HY, I said below about PR. Give Labour and Lib `dems and SNP votes control of the commons for the next 15 years, which the record of PM Truss will, there can be all sorts of changes and all sorts of mountains for Conservative politics to climb to enjoy power like this again.
    If the economy is as bad as that then there would be frequent changes of government. A Labour, LD and SNP government of high inflation and frequent strikes would swiftly see a swing back to the right, even under PR. Farage would also of course win dozens of seats with PR
    I guess you prefer to stick with the current Tory high inflation and frequent strikes.
    Is the high inflation across Europe and elsewhere 'Tory high inflation' or actually 'Putin's evil war' against Ukraine
    Do not forget disruption to supply chains caused by Covid and especially by China's lockdowns.
    Yes fair comment
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 19,538

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    We're about to have an utter loon as PM. Or, at best, someone prepared to act like a loon because she thinks it will advance her career.

    TalkTV hustings:

    * Liz Truss says 'jury's out' on whether Macron is friend or foe; Sunak says he's a friend

    * Sunak says LizTruss would make a better PM than Johnson; Truss says Johnson

    * Truss says energy bills are 'massive issue' but 'bunging money' at system is not answer.


    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1562892217228079105

    Graham Brady better not book any holidays this winter.
    I’ve not seen evidence of Truss somehow surprising “on the upside”

    She needs the loons onboard to survive in post. Therefore, she’ll be a loon

    It is LOL.

    The membership are about to elect IDS mark II to the premiership. It will one hapless mishap and gaffe and on-the-hoof bonkers policy announcement after another.

    As the gaffes mount she will redouble her efforts by making up even more bonkers quiet bat people nonsense to sell.

    Meanwhile the wall of economic shit will pour over her useless Cabinet.

    I am convinced there will be a leadership election next summer.

    I’m starting to think she won’t take them into the election too. There will be like the coup against IDS, no member vote, and Wallace or Barclay, or someone similarly acceptable to most MPs will lead them into the general election.
    It would have to be Wallace by coronation a la Howard 2003 if she was replaced like IDS before the next election. We cannot have 2 leadership contests in 1 parliament
    That’s what I said, Wallace, or Barclay or such like in a coronation. Probably similar time of year, Nov 23.

    It’s like my Dad said right at the start, it’s not just the next election to worry about, Leave office having completely shredded your credibility on the economy - that credibility won’t be rebuilt quickly in opposition - lack of trust in you on economy, health, cost of living, can play even bigger five years after throwing away incumbency bonus, you can actually lose more seats not gain them in subsequent elections, five years time and in ten years time when people remember the wrong headed decisions made in the last years of the spell in power even without all the opposition parties reminding them.

    Which is why, HY, I said below about PR. Give Labour and Lib `dems and SNP votes control of the commons for the next 15 years, which the record of PM Truss will, there can be all sorts of changes and all sorts of mountains for Conservative politics to climb to enjoy power like this again.
    If the economy is as bad as that then there would be frequent changes of government. A Labour, LD and SNP government of high inflation and frequent strikes would swiftly see a swing back to the right, even under PR. Farage would also of course win dozens of seats with PR
    I guess you prefer to stick with the current Tory high inflation and frequent strikes.
    Is the high inflation across Europe and elsewhere 'Tory high inflation' or actually 'Putin's evil war' against Ukraine
    Inflation was rising before the war. Your lot have been in power for 12 years. Since they take credit for any good news, they need to own the bad as well. It's a mess.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 10,431

    murali_s said:

    Well done that woman. Nothing works in this country. As I keep saying, the Tories are turning this country into a stinking latrine.

    You seem to miss the point that Labour in Wales has been in power longer than the conservatives and ambulance services here are just as appalling
    You miss the point that your point is essentially a non-sequitur.
    Surely it implies that something other than political choices might be at play? I.e. covid stress on hospitals?
    The criticism is that “nothing works”.
    That’s entirely on the government of 12 years, much of which was spent delivering austerity aka failing to mend the roof.

    What Labour in Wales is doing (I am no fan) is really neither here nor there.

    At core, I am merely highlighting again BigG’s incessant Tory apologism.

    Brown trashed the economy and left us having 33% of government expenditure being borrowed.

    Yes it took a decade of austerity to fix that. To merge the conversation with one earlier it took forty to fifty years for some areas bombed by the Germans to recover from the damage inflicted, expecting in 12 years the government to be able to click their heels three times and wipe out the damage Brown is a bit rich.
    Brown did not trash the economy. The global financial crisis did, from which we were recovering until Osborne flatlined the economy with his Plan A.
    Brown did not crash the economy, but he did preside over a culture of PFI that we are still paying for to this day. He also wrongly thought he had abolished boom and bust. His later spending exposed the country to the 2008 crash in a big way.
    You can definitely argue that the policies of the coalition were wrong. I think some of the issues we have now date back to that. The national economy is not the same as your personal finances, and running a country in the manner of a debtor trying to pay off their debts may not be the right approach.
    Yes, I agree with you on PFI. Brown *should* be excoriated for PFI. Not about spending though; what exposed us to the GFC was simply that Britain had (and has) a larger financial centre than other countries. Agree also on the inappropriateness of the personal finance metaphor.
    The evils of PFI never get mentioned, and I think they should. Hospital trusts are still paying eye watering costs because of Brown.
    On PFI…
    https://theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/12/nhs-hospital-trusts-to-pay-out-further-55bn-under-pfi-scheme
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 104,912
    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    We're about to have an utter loon as PM. Or, at best, someone prepared to act like a loon because she thinks it will advance her career.

    TalkTV hustings:

    * Liz Truss says 'jury's out' on whether Macron is friend or foe; Sunak says he's a friend

    * Sunak says LizTruss would make a better PM than Johnson; Truss says Johnson

    * Truss says energy bills are 'massive issue' but 'bunging money' at system is not answer.


    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1562892217228079105

    Graham Brady better not book any holidays this winter.
    I’ve not seen evidence of Truss somehow surprising “on the upside”

    She needs the loons onboard to survive in post. Therefore, she’ll be a loon

    It is LOL.

    The membership are about to elect IDS mark II to the premiership. It will one hapless mishap and gaffe and on-the-hoof bonkers policy announcement after another.

    As the gaffes mount she will redouble her efforts by making up even more bonkers quiet bat people nonsense to sell.

    Meanwhile the wall of economic shit will pour over her useless Cabinet.

    I am convinced there will be a leadership election next summer.

    I’m starting to think she won’t take them into the election too. There will be like the coup against IDS, no member vote, and Wallace or Barclay, or someone similarly acceptable to most MPs will lead them into the general election.
    It would have to be Wallace by coronation a la Howard 2003 if she was replaced like IDS before the next election. We cannot have 2 leadership contests in 1 parliament
    That’s what I said, Wallace, or Barclay or such like in a coronation. Probably similar time of year, Nov 23.

    It’s like my Dad said right at the start, it’s not just the next election to worry about, Leave office having completely shredded your credibility on the economy - that credibility won’t be rebuilt quickly in opposition - lack of trust in you on economy, health, cost of living, can play even bigger five years after throwing away incumbency bonus, you can actually lose more seats not gain them in subsequent elections, five years time and in ten years time when people remember the wrong headed decisions made in the last years of the spell in power even without all the opposition parties reminding them.

    Which is why, HY, I said below about PR. Give Labour and Lib `dems and SNP votes control of the commons for the next 15 years, which the record of PM Truss will, there can be all sorts of changes and all sorts of mountains for Conservative politics to climb to enjoy power like this again.
    If the economy is as bad as that then there would be frequent changes of government. A Labour, LD and SNP government of high inflation and frequent strikes would swiftly see a swing back to the right, even under PR. Farage would also of course win dozens of seats with PR
    I guess you prefer to stick with the current Tory high inflation and frequent strikes.
    It could end up as bad as the 1970s, especially if the Ukraine war continues and we had 3 changes of government in that decade
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 55,031
    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    We're about to have an utter loon as PM. Or, at best, someone prepared to act like a loon because she thinks it will advance her career.

    TalkTV hustings:

    * Liz Truss says 'jury's out' on whether Macron is friend or foe; Sunak says he's a friend

    * Sunak says LizTruss would make a better PM than Johnson; Truss says Johnson

    * Truss says energy bills are 'massive issue' but 'bunging money' at system is not answer.


    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1562892217228079105

    Graham Brady better not book any holidays this winter.
    I’ve not seen evidence of Truss somehow surprising “on the upside”

    She needs the loons onboard to survive in post. Therefore, she’ll be a loon

    It is LOL.

    The membership are about to elect IDS mark II to the premiership. It will one hapless mishap and gaffe and on-the-hoof bonkers policy announcement after another.

    As the gaffes mount she will redouble her efforts by making up even more bonkers quiet bat people nonsense to sell.

    Meanwhile the wall of economic shit will pour over her useless Cabinet.

    I am convinced there will be a leadership election next summer.

    I’m starting to think she won’t take them into the election too. There will be like the coup against IDS, no member vote, and Wallace or Barclay, or someone similarly acceptable to most MPs will lead them into the general election.
    It would have to be Wallace by coronation a la Howard 2003 if she was replaced like IDS before the next election. We cannot have 2 leadership contests in 1 parliament
    That’s what I said, Wallace, or Barclay or such like in a coronation. Probably similar time of year, Nov 23.

    It’s like my Dad said right at the start, it’s not just the next election to worry about, Leave office having completely shredded your credibility on the economy - that credibility won’t be rebuilt quickly in opposition - lack of trust in you on economy, health, cost of living, can play even bigger five years after throwing away incumbency bonus, you can actually lose more seats not gain them in subsequent elections, five years time and in ten years time when people remember the wrong headed decisions made in the last years of the spell in power even without all the opposition parties reminding them.

    Which is why, HY, I said below about PR. Give Labour and Lib `dems and SNP votes control of the commons for the next 15 years, which the record of PM Truss will, there can be all sorts of changes and all sorts of mountains for Conservative politics to climb to enjoy power like this again.
    If the economy is as bad as that then there would be frequent changes of government. A Labour, LD and SNP government of high inflation and frequent strikes would swiftly see a swing back to the right, even under PR. Farage would also of course win dozens of seats with PR
    I guess you prefer to stick with the current Tory high inflation and frequent strikes.
    Is the high inflation across Europe and elsewhere 'Tory high inflation' or actually 'Putin's evil war' against Ukraine
    Inflation was rising before the war. Your lot have been in power for 12 years. Since they take credit for any good news, they need to own the bad as well. It's a mess.
    It is a mess because of covid and the war and is affecting governments across the world

    Prior to covid the country was doing just fine
  • LeonLeon Posts: 28,512
    nico679 said:

    Leon said:

    nico679 said:

    nico679 said:

    Wow even the DT is admitting the truth .

    A record 1.2 million visas issued , immigration from the EU has collapsed and been replaced by a large spike in non EU immigration . 1.12 million non EU nationals is a record up 70% on pre Brexit levels . So that means only 80,000 visas were issued to EU nationals .

    Good to see immigration from around the world
    Leavers didn’t vote for 1.12 million visas a year issued . Anyway at least we’ll not have to worry about not being able to find a good curry ! Patel actually told the truth for once , she said vote Brexit and we can ship in more curry chefs .
    Er, the reason we have issued so many more visas is BECAUSE we no longer have unrestricted Free Movement. So we can take back control of the influx of workers: by issuing visas as we wish (EU citizens didn’t need them)

    This is an example of Brexit doing exactly what was promised

    Oh come on stop this nonsense . You and everyone on here know Leave voters thought immigration was going to come down . The right wing papers didn’t say vote Brexit to keep immigration high .
    You may say that but that is a different point, and merely your opinion. The Brexit campaign promised a likely end to Free Movement and an Aussie style points system. So it is

    Personally I think HMG is utterly spineless on immigration and should be flying every dinghy person to Rwanda right now. Presumably you disagree with that, but then you don’t know what you want
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 8,508

    HYUFD said:

    We're about to have an utter loon as PM. Or, at best, someone prepared to act like a loon because she thinks it will advance her career.

    TalkTV hustings:

    * Liz Truss says 'jury's out' on whether Macron is friend or foe; Sunak says he's a friend

    * Sunak says LizTruss would make a better PM than Johnson; Truss says Johnson

    * Truss says energy bills are 'massive issue' but 'bunging money' at system is not answer.


    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1562892217228079105

    Graham Brady better not book any holidays this winter.
    I’ve not seen evidence of Truss somehow surprising “on the upside”

    She needs the loons onboard to survive in post. Therefore, she’ll be a loon

    It is LOL.

    The membership are about to elect IDS mark II to the premiership. It will one hapless mishap and gaffe and on-the-hoof bonkers policy announcement after another.

    As the gaffes mount she will redouble her efforts by making up even more bonkers quiet bat people nonsense to sell.

    Meanwhile the wall of economic shit will pour over her useless Cabinet.

    I am convinced there will be a leadership election next summer.

    I’m starting to think she won’t take them into the election too. There will be like the coup against IDS, no member vote, and Wallace or Barclay, or someone similarly acceptable to most MPs will lead them into the general election.
    It would have to be Wallace by coronation a la Howard 2003 if she was replaced like IDS before the next election. We cannot have 2 leadership contests in 1 parliament
    A PM by coronation? Hard to see that happening and the government getting away with it. Even Brown had a token opponent.

    The harder thing would be ditching Truss without making the party look stupid for having elected her so recently. Do the Conservatives have some tame doctors who can... ahem... advise a Prime Minister to take an extended rest break requiring them to pass the burdens of office to someone else?

    Purely for urgent medical reasons which shouldn't be discussed, of course. Patient confidentiality and all that.
    “ Even Brown had a token opponent”

    Did he? Understood it would have been McDonnel but brown too scared to allow a critic any oxygen of publicity he ensured it was a coronation.

    I’m sure Nick Palmer will be around any moment saying this is anti Labour spin, they are always more democratic than this. 🙂
  • LeonLeon Posts: 28,512
    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    We're about to have an utter loon as PM. Or, at best, someone prepared to act like a loon because she thinks it will advance her career.

    TalkTV hustings:

    * Liz Truss says 'jury's out' on whether Macron is friend or foe; Sunak says he's a friend

    * Sunak says LizTruss would make a better PM than Johnson; Truss says Johnson

    * Truss says energy bills are 'massive issue' but 'bunging money' at system is not answer.


    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1562892217228079105

    Graham Brady better not book any holidays this winter.
    I’ve not seen evidence of Truss somehow surprising “on the upside”

    She needs the loons onboard to survive in post. Therefore, she’ll be a loon

    It is LOL.

    The membership are about to elect IDS mark II to the premiership. It will one hapless mishap and gaffe and on-the-hoof bonkers policy announcement after another.

    As the gaffes mount she will redouble her efforts by making up even more bonkers quiet bat people nonsense to sell.

    Meanwhile the wall of economic shit will pour over her useless Cabinet.

    I am convinced there will be a leadership election next summer.

    I’m starting to think she won’t take them into the election too. There will be like the coup against IDS, no member vote, and Wallace or Barclay, or someone similarly acceptable to most MPs will lead them into the general election.
    It would have to be Wallace by coronation a la Howard 2003 if she was replaced like IDS before the next election. We cannot have 2 leadership contests in 1 parliament
    That’s what I said, Wallace, or Barclay or such like in a coronation. Probably similar time of year, Nov 23.

    It’s like my Dad said right at the start, it’s not just the next election to worry about, Leave office having completely shredded your credibility on the economy - that credibility won’t be rebuilt quickly in opposition - lack of trust in you on economy, health, cost of living, can play even bigger five years after throwing away incumbency bonus, you can actually lose more seats not gain them in subsequent elections, five years time and in ten years time when people remember the wrong headed decisions made in the last years of the spell in power even without all the opposition parties reminding them.

    Which is why, HY, I said below about PR. Give Labour and Lib `dems and SNP votes control of the commons for the next 15 years, which the record of PM Truss will, there can be all sorts of changes and all sorts of mountains for Conservative politics to climb to enjoy power like this again.
    If the economy is as bad as that then there would be frequent changes of government. A Labour, LD and SNP government of high inflation and frequent strikes would swiftly see a swing back to the right, even under PR. Farage would also of course win dozens of seats with PR
    I guess you prefer to stick with the current Tory high inflation and frequent strikes.
    It could end up as bad as the 1970s, especially if the Ukraine war continues and we had 3 changes of government in that decade
    We will be lucky if it’s only as bad as the 1970s

    Sometimes I think we’re headed for the 1940s
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 19,538

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    We're about to have an utter loon as PM. Or, at best, someone prepared to act like a loon because she thinks it will advance her career.

    TalkTV hustings:

    * Liz Truss says 'jury's out' on whether Macron is friend or foe; Sunak says he's a friend

    * Sunak says LizTruss would make a better PM than Johnson; Truss says Johnson

    * Truss says energy bills are 'massive issue' but 'bunging money' at system is not answer.


    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1562892217228079105

    Graham Brady better not book any holidays this winter.
    I’ve not seen evidence of Truss somehow surprising “on the upside”

    She needs the loons onboard to survive in post. Therefore, she’ll be a loon

    It is LOL.

    The membership are about to elect IDS mark II to the premiership. It will one hapless mishap and gaffe and on-the-hoof bonkers policy announcement after another.

    As the gaffes mount she will redouble her efforts by making up even more bonkers quiet bat people nonsense to sell.

    Meanwhile the wall of economic shit will pour over her useless Cabinet.

    I am convinced there will be a leadership election next summer.

    I’m starting to think she won’t take them into the election too. There will be like the coup against IDS, no member vote, and Wallace or Barclay, or someone similarly acceptable to most MPs will lead them into the general election.
    It would have to be Wallace by coronation a la Howard 2003 if she was replaced like IDS before the next election. We cannot have 2 leadership contests in 1 parliament
    That’s what I said, Wallace, or Barclay or such like in a coronation. Probably similar time of year, Nov 23.

    It’s like my Dad said right at the start, it’s not just the next election to worry about, Leave office having completely shredded your credibility on the economy - that credibility won’t be rebuilt quickly in opposition - lack of trust in you on economy, health, cost of living, can play even bigger five years after throwing away incumbency bonus, you can actually lose more seats not gain them in subsequent elections, five years time and in ten years time when people remember the wrong headed decisions made in the last years of the spell in power even without all the opposition parties reminding them.

    Which is why, HY, I said below about PR. Give Labour and Lib `dems and SNP votes control of the commons for the next 15 years, which the record of PM Truss will, there can be all sorts of changes and all sorts of mountains for Conservative politics to climb to enjoy power like this again.
    If the economy is as bad as that then there would be frequent changes of government. A Labour, LD and SNP government of high inflation and frequent strikes would swiftly see a swing back to the right, even under PR. Farage would also of course win dozens of seats with PR
    I guess you prefer to stick with the current Tory high inflation and frequent strikes.
    Is the high inflation across Europe and elsewhere 'Tory high inflation' or actually 'Putin's evil war' against Ukraine
    Inflation was rising before the war. Your lot have been in power for 12 years. Since they take credit for any good news, they need to own the bad as well. It's a mess.
    It is a mess because of covid and the war and is affecting governments across the world

    Prior to covid the country was doing just fine
    Don't be silly. So all the bad things are someone else's fault. 'Not me gov'
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,648
    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    Cookie said:

    Never mind any of this shit, i've just had to evict the biggest spider ive ever seen. Fucking thing might as well have been Shelob. Nothing gets that big without committing atrocities.
    If it gets back in.......
    Pray for me tonight peebee.

    Please post early tomorrow, so that we know you’ve made it through the night… :D
    I've got my bravest teddy on first watch. Veteran of the 'funny looking gross insect' incident
    What you need is a cat.
    If you have never seen a cat dealing with a September spider you have missed an experience. Chewing away, puzzled look on its face - "I - assume - I was supposed to do this, but I'm honestly not finding it as rewarding as I anticipated".
    I put two whoopers out yesterday and our dog ate them before they could get away, although one put up a sterling effort to escape. He also eats wasps and never seems to come to any harm.
    Right you all need to send your furries to me. Im conscripting furry friends to deal with what im increasingly inclined to believe are Macron voting French giant spiders
    If you had our dog a few spiders will be the least of your problems. He will steal your dinner and run around your flat with the loo brush in his mouth just for starters.
    Sounds a good wholesome evening!
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 37,387
    My French is a bit rusty, but in the bit you don’t quote doesn’t he say specifically that the close bonds, interests and amity that France and the UK share can never be broken? Isn’t he talking in the bit you do quote about the risk of not having a friendly relationship with the UK government if it reneges on undertakings it has given on issues such as the Northern Ireland protocol and rights for French fisherman. I don’t see anything in there about regarding the UK ir its head of state as a foe.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 8,508

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    We're about to have an utter loon as PM. Or, at best, someone prepared to act like a loon because she thinks it will advance her career.

    TalkTV hustings:

    * Liz Truss says 'jury's out' on whether Macron is friend or foe; Sunak says he's a friend

    * Sunak says LizTruss would make a better PM than Johnson; Truss says Johnson

    * Truss says energy bills are 'massive issue' but 'bunging money' at system is not answer.


    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1562892217228079105

    Graham Brady better not book any holidays this winter.
    I’ve not seen evidence of Truss somehow surprising “on the upside”

    She needs the loons onboard to survive in post. Therefore, she’ll be a loon

    It is LOL.

    The membership are about to elect IDS mark II to the premiership. It will one hapless mishap and gaffe and on-the-hoof bonkers policy announcement after another.

    As the gaffes mount she will redouble her efforts by making up even more bonkers quiet bat people nonsense to sell.

    Meanwhile the wall of economic shit will pour over her useless Cabinet.

    I am convinced there will be a leadership election next summer.

    I’m starting to think she won’t take them into the election too. There will be like the coup against IDS, no member vote, and Wallace or Barclay, or someone similarly acceptable to most MPs will lead them into the general election.
    It would have to be Wallace by coronation a la Howard 2003 if she was replaced like IDS before the next election. We cannot have 2 leadership contests in 1 parliament
    That’s what I said, Wallace, or Barclay or such like in a coronation. Probably similar time of year, Nov 23.

    It’s like my Dad said right at the start, it’s not just the next election to worry about, Leave office having completely shredded your credibility on the economy - that credibility won’t be rebuilt quickly in opposition - lack of trust in you on economy, health, cost of living, can play even bigger five years after throwing away incumbency bonus, you can actually lose more seats not gain them in subsequent elections, five years time and in ten years time when people remember the wrong headed decisions made in the last years of the spell in power even without all the opposition parties reminding them.

    Which is why, HY, I said below about PR. Give Labour and Lib `dems and SNP votes control of the commons for the next 15 years, which the record of PM Truss will, there can be all sorts of changes and all sorts of mountains for Conservative politics to climb to enjoy power like this again.
    If the economy is as bad as that then there would be frequent changes of government. A Labour, LD and SNP government of high inflation and frequent strikes would swiftly see a swing back to the right, even under PR. Farage would also of course win dozens of seats with PR
    I guess you prefer to stick with the current Tory high inflation and frequent strikes.
    Is the high inflation across Europe and elsewhere 'Tory high inflation' or actually 'Putin's evil war' against Ukraine
    Inflation was rising before the war. Your lot have been in power for 12 years. Since they take credit for any good news, they need to own the bad as well. It's a mess.
    It is a mess because of covid and the war and is affecting governments across the world

    Prior to covid the country was doing just fine
    If there wasn’t a war, would you be blaming “excessive cloud” or “low %s of grass hoppers” or something else patently unconnected for what is a patent failure of one after another Tory manifestos?
  • kjhkjh Posts: 7,871
    Carnyx said:

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    Cookie said:

    Never mind any of this shit, i've just had to evict the biggest spider ive ever seen. Fucking thing might as well have been Shelob. Nothing gets that big without committing atrocities.
    If it gets back in.......
    Pray for me tonight peebee.

    Please post early tomorrow, so that we know you’ve made it through the night… :D
    I've got my bravest teddy on first watch. Veteran of the 'funny looking gross insect' incident
    What you need is a cat.
    If you have never seen a cat dealing with a September spider you have missed an experience. Chewing away, puzzled look on its face - "I - assume - I was supposed to do this, but I'm honestly not finding it as rewarding as I anticipated".
    I put two whoopers out yesterday and our dog ate them before they could get away, although one put up a sterling effort to escape. He also eats wasps and never seems to come to any harm.
    Right you all need to send your furries to me. Im conscripting furry friends to deal with what im increasingly inclined to believe are Macron voting French giant spiders
    If you had our dog a few spiders will be the least of your problems. He will steal your dinner and run around your flat with the loo brush in his mouth just for starters.
    Is he a spaniel?
    Sproodle so yes 50%. He is bonkers. A real handful. Very friendly. He got expelled when a puppy from puppy class for being 'belligerent'. It was havoc.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 104,912
    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    We're about to have an utter loon as PM. Or, at best, someone prepared to act like a loon because she thinks it will advance her career.

    TalkTV hustings:

    * Liz Truss says 'jury's out' on whether Macron is friend or foe; Sunak says he's a friend

    * Sunak says LizTruss would make a better PM than Johnson; Truss says Johnson

    * Truss says energy bills are 'massive issue' but 'bunging money' at system is not answer.


    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1562892217228079105

    Graham Brady better not book any holidays this winter.
    I’ve not seen evidence of Truss somehow surprising “on the upside”

    She needs the loons onboard to survive in post. Therefore, she’ll be a loon

    It is LOL.

    The membership are about to elect IDS mark II to the premiership. It will one hapless mishap and gaffe and on-the-hoof bonkers policy announcement after another.

    As the gaffes mount she will redouble her efforts by making up even more bonkers quiet bat people nonsense to sell.

    Meanwhile the wall of economic shit will pour over her useless Cabinet.

    I am convinced there will be a leadership election next summer.

    I’m starting to think she won’t take them into the election too. There will be like the coup against IDS, no member vote, and Wallace or Barclay, or someone similarly acceptable to most MPs will lead them into the general election.
    It would have to be Wallace by coronation a la Howard 2003 if she was replaced like IDS before the next election. We cannot have 2 leadership contests in 1 parliament
    That’s what I said, Wallace, or Barclay or such like in a coronation. Probably similar time of year, Nov 23.

    It’s like my Dad said right at the start, it’s not just the next election to worry about, Leave office having completely shredded your credibility on the economy - that credibility won’t be rebuilt quickly in opposition - lack of trust in you on economy, health, cost of living, can play even bigger five years after throwing away incumbency bonus, you can actually lose more seats not gain them in subsequent elections, five years time and in ten years time when people remember the wrong headed decisions made in the last years of the spell in power even without all the opposition parties reminding them.

    Which is why, HY, I said below about PR. Give Labour and Lib `dems and SNP votes control of the commons for the next 15 years, which the record of PM Truss will, there can be all sorts of changes and all sorts of mountains for Conservative politics to climb to enjoy power like this again.
    If the economy is as bad as that then there would be frequent changes of government. A Labour, LD and SNP government of high inflation and frequent strikes would swiftly see a swing back to the right, even under PR. Farage would also of course win dozens of seats with PR
    I guess you prefer to stick with the current Tory high inflation and frequent strikes.
    It could end up as bad as the 1970s, especially if the Ukraine war continues and we had 3 changes of government in that decade
    We will be lucky if it’s only as bad as the 1970s

    Sometimes I think we’re headed for the 1940s
    Hopefully Putin doesn't invade Poland then and China doesn't invade Taiwan
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 23,616
    edited August 25

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    We're about to have an utter loon as PM. Or, at best, someone prepared to act like a loon because she thinks it will advance her career.

    TalkTV hustings:

    * Liz Truss says 'jury's out' on whether Macron is friend or foe; Sunak says he's a friend

    * Sunak says LizTruss would make a better PM than Johnson; Truss says Johnson

    * Truss says energy bills are 'massive issue' but 'bunging money' at system is not answer.


    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1562892217228079105

    Graham Brady better not book any holidays this winter.
    I’ve not seen evidence of Truss somehow surprising “on the upside”

    She needs the loons onboard to survive in post. Therefore, she’ll be a loon

    It is LOL.

    The membership are about to elect IDS mark II to the premiership. It will one hapless mishap and gaffe and on-the-hoof bonkers policy announcement after another.

    As the gaffes mount she will redouble her efforts by making up even more bonkers quiet bat people nonsense to sell.

    Meanwhile the wall of economic shit will pour over her useless Cabinet.

    I am convinced there will be a leadership election next summer.

    I’m starting to think she won’t take them into the election too. There will be like the coup against IDS, no member vote, and Wallace or Barclay, or someone similarly acceptable to most MPs will lead them into the general election.
    It would have to be Wallace by coronation a la Howard 2003 if she was replaced like IDS before the next election. We cannot have 2 leadership contests in 1 parliament
    That’s what I said, Wallace, or Barclay or such like in a coronation. Probably similar time of year, Nov 23.

    It’s like my Dad said right at the start, it’s not just the next election to worry about, Leave office having completely shredded your credibility on the economy - that credibility won’t be rebuilt quickly in opposition - lack of trust in you on economy, health, cost of living, can play even bigger five years after throwing away incumbency bonus, you can actually lose more seats not gain them in subsequent elections, five years time and in ten years time when people remember the wrong headed decisions made in the last years of the spell in power even without all the opposition parties reminding them.

    Which is why, HY, I said below about PR. Give Labour and Lib `dems and SNP votes control of the commons for the next 15 years, which the record of PM Truss will, there can be all sorts of changes and all sorts of mountains for Conservative politics to climb to enjoy power like this again.
    If the economy is as bad as that then there would be frequent changes of government. A Labour, LD and SNP government of high inflation and frequent strikes would swiftly see a swing back to the right, even under PR. Farage would also of course win dozens of seats with PR
    I guess you prefer to stick with the current Tory high inflation and frequent strikes.
    Is the high inflation across Europe and elsewhere 'Tory high inflation' or actually 'Putin's evil war' against Ukraine
    Inflation is 6.1% in France*. It's 8.8% in the UK; that's nearly half as much again.

    (*Yes France, the country roundly condemned by UK Tories as forever on the edge of catastrophe.)

  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 55,031

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    We're about to have an utter loon as PM. Or, at best, someone prepared to act like a loon because she thinks it will advance her career.

    TalkTV hustings:

    * Liz Truss says 'jury's out' on whether Macron is friend or foe; Sunak says he's a friend

    * Sunak says LizTruss would make a better PM than Johnson; Truss says Johnson

    * Truss says energy bills are 'massive issue' but 'bunging money' at system is not answer.


    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1562892217228079105

    Graham Brady better not book any holidays this winter.
    I’ve not seen evidence of Truss somehow surprising “on the upside”

    She needs the loons onboard to survive in post. Therefore, she’ll be a loon

    It is LOL.

    The membership are about to elect IDS mark II to the premiership. It will one hapless mishap and gaffe and on-the-hoof bonkers policy announcement after another.

    As the gaffes mount she will redouble her efforts by making up even more bonkers quiet bat people nonsense to sell.

    Meanwhile the wall of economic shit will pour over her useless Cabinet.

    I am convinced there will be a leadership election next summer.

    I’m starting to think she won’t take them into the election too. There will be like the coup against IDS, no member vote, and Wallace or Barclay, or someone similarly acceptable to most MPs will lead them into the general election.
    It would have to be Wallace by coronation a la Howard 2003 if she was replaced like IDS before the next election. We cannot have 2 leadership contests in 1 parliament
    That’s what I said, Wallace, or Barclay or such like in a coronation. Probably similar time of year, Nov 23.

    It’s like my Dad said right at the start, it’s not just the next election to worry about, Leave office having completely shredded your credibility on the economy - that credibility won’t be rebuilt quickly in opposition - lack of trust in you on economy, health, cost of living, can play even bigger five years after throwing away incumbency bonus, you can actually lose more seats not gain them in subsequent elections, five years time and in ten years time when people remember the wrong headed decisions made in the last years of the spell in power even without all the opposition parties reminding them.

    Which is why, HY, I said below about PR. Give Labour and Lib `dems and SNP votes control of the commons for the next 15 years, which the record of PM Truss will, there can be all sorts of changes and all sorts of mountains for Conservative politics to climb to enjoy power like this again.
    If the economy is as bad as that then there would be frequent changes of government. A Labour, LD and SNP government of high inflation and frequent strikes would swiftly see a swing back to the right, even under PR. Farage would also of course win dozens of seats with PR
    I guess you prefer to stick with the current Tory high inflation and frequent strikes.
    Is the high inflation across Europe and elsewhere 'Tory high inflation' or actually 'Putin's evil war' against Ukraine
    Inflation was rising before the war. Your lot have been in power for 12 years. Since they take credit for any good news, they need to own the bad as well. It's a mess.
    It is a mess because of covid and the war and is affecting governments across the world

    Prior to covid the country was doing just fine
    If there wasn’t a war, would you be blaming “excessive cloud” or “low %s of grass hoppers” or something else patently unconnected for what is a patent failure of one after another Tory manifestos?
    But the point is there is a war and covid cost hundreds of billions
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 19,538

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    We're about to have an utter loon as PM. Or, at best, someone prepared to act like a loon because she thinks it will advance her career.

    TalkTV hustings:

    * Liz Truss says 'jury's out' on whether Macron is friend or foe; Sunak says he's a friend

    * Sunak says LizTruss would make a better PM than Johnson; Truss says Johnson

    * Truss says energy bills are 'massive issue' but 'bunging money' at system is not answer.


    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1562892217228079105

    Graham Brady better not book any holidays this winter.
    I’ve not seen evidence of Truss somehow surprising “on the upside”

    She needs the loons onboard to survive in post. Therefore, she’ll be a loon

    It is LOL.

    The membership are about to elect IDS mark II to the premiership. It will one hapless mishap and gaffe and on-the-hoof bonkers policy announcement after another.

    As the gaffes mount she will redouble her efforts by making up even more bonkers quiet bat people nonsense to sell.

    Meanwhile the wall of economic shit will pour over her useless Cabinet.

    I am convinced there will be a leadership election next summer.

    I’m starting to think she won’t take them into the election too. There will be like the coup against IDS, no member vote, and Wallace or Barclay, or someone similarly acceptable to most MPs will lead them into the general election.
    It would have to be Wallace by coronation a la Howard 2003 if she was replaced like IDS before the next election. We cannot have 2 leadership contests in 1 parliament
    That’s what I said, Wallace, or Barclay or such like in a coronation. Probably similar time of year, Nov 23.

    It’s like my Dad said right at the start, it’s not just the next election to worry about, Leave office having completely shredded your credibility on the economy - that credibility won’t be rebuilt quickly in opposition - lack of trust in you on economy, health, cost of living, can play even bigger five years after throwing away incumbency bonus, you can actually lose more seats not gain them in subsequent elections, five years time and in ten years time when people remember the wrong headed decisions made in the last years of the spell in power even without all the opposition parties reminding them.

    Which is why, HY, I said below about PR. Give Labour and Lib `dems and SNP votes control of the commons for the next 15 years, which the record of PM Truss will, there can be all sorts of changes and all sorts of mountains for Conservative politics to climb to enjoy power like this again.
    If the economy is as bad as that then there would be frequent changes of government. A Labour, LD and SNP government of high inflation and frequent strikes would swiftly see a swing back to the right, even under PR. Farage would also of course win dozens of seats with PR
    I guess you prefer to stick with the current Tory high inflation and frequent strikes.
    Is the high inflation across Europe and elsewhere 'Tory high inflation' or actually 'Putin's evil war' against Ukraine
    Inflation was rising before the war. Your lot have been in power for 12 years. Since they take credit for any good news, they need to own the bad as well. It's a mess.
    It is a mess because of covid and the war and is affecting governments across the world

    Prior to covid the country was doing just fine
    If there wasn’t a war, would you be blaming “excessive cloud” or “low %s of grass hoppers” or something else patently unconnected for what is a patent failure of one after another Tory manifestos?
    Well quite. The secret is bad things happen all the time. The measure of a good government is how you deal with the bad things. This government cannot deal with them, so it simply blames them and everyone else.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 7,783

    Truss’s pathetic, embarrassing pandering to a crowd of xenophobic bigots does raise very serious questions about her judgment. She’s going to be asked about the Macron comments again and again - and she’s going to have to row back. Again.

    Where does this ridiculous, bed-wetting attitude to friction between allies come from? Macron has personally delivered a speech questioning whether the UK was still a friend and, in so many words, saying that the jury is out.
    If the UK’s foreign secretary will not say that France’s head of state is a friend then it’s hard to see how you can describe the two countries as allies. Vladimir Putin will be delighted.
    As I said, Macron has personally questioned whether the UK is a friend. Where is your condemnation of him, or does he get a pass because he's French and therefore
    automatically much more sophisticated and adept at the diplomatic arts?
    I haven’t seen or read the Macron speech. I’d be happy to comment on it once I have. Can you link?

    Assuming he did say it as you describe, though, we are clearly no longer allies.

    He linked issues like licences for French fishermen to "remaining friends" with the UK.

    "Qu’il s’agisse de la mise en œuvre du protocole sur l’Irlande du Nord ou de droits de nos pêcheurs, comme il s’agira d’ailleurs d’immanquables sujets de discussions à venir. Soyons fermes et clairs, pour que les engagements pris soient tenus. C'est la condition pour pouvoir rester amis."

    https://presidence-francaise.consilium.europa.eu/fr/actualites/discours-du-president-de-la-republique-devant-le-parlement-europeen-strasbourg-le-mercredi-19-janvier-2022/
    So breaking an agreement we have only just signed would be seen as an unfriendly act. No shit Sherlock.

    Actually, the main thing this shows is how leaden-footed Truss and Sunak are. It was a bit of a gotcha question (admit to being friends with the French or be crass and rude). The smart thing to do, the thing Boris would have done is to ride the two horses...

    "The British and French have a long history of disagreements and our current contretemps is in that great and glorious tradition . But we never never walk away from each other, and the point of Brexit is to allow Britain and France, myself and M. Macron to be friendly neighbours rather than grumpy housemates."
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 19,538

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    We're about to have an utter loon as PM. Or, at best, someone prepared to act like a loon because she thinks it will advance her career.

    TalkTV hustings:

    * Liz Truss says 'jury's out' on whether Macron is friend or foe; Sunak says he's a friend

    * Sunak says LizTruss would make a better PM than Johnson; Truss says Johnson

    * Truss says energy bills are 'massive issue' but 'bunging money' at system is not answer.


    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1562892217228079105

    Graham Brady better not book any holidays this winter.
    I’ve not seen evidence of Truss somehow surprising “on the upside”

    She needs the loons onboard to survive in post. Therefore, she’ll be a loon

    It is LOL.

    The membership are about to elect IDS mark II to the premiership. It will one hapless mishap and gaffe and on-the-hoof bonkers policy announcement after another.

    As the gaffes mount she will redouble her efforts by making up even more bonkers quiet bat people nonsense to sell.

    Meanwhile the wall of economic shit will pour over her useless Cabinet.

    I am convinced there will be a leadership election next summer.

    I’m starting to think she won’t take them into the election too. There will be like the coup against IDS, no member vote, and Wallace or Barclay, or someone similarly acceptable to most MPs will lead them into the general election.
    It would have to be Wallace by coronation a la Howard 2003 if she was replaced like IDS before the next election. We cannot have 2 leadership contests in 1 parliament
    That’s what I said, Wallace, or Barclay or such like in a coronation. Probably similar time of year, Nov 23.

    It’s like my Dad said right at the start, it’s not just the next election to worry about, Leave office having completely shredded your credibility on the economy - that credibility won’t be rebuilt quickly in opposition - lack of trust in you on economy, health, cost of living, can play even bigger five years after throwing away incumbency bonus, you can actually lose more seats not gain them in subsequent elections, five years time and in ten years time when people remember the wrong headed decisions made in the last years of the spell in power even without all the opposition parties reminding them.

    Which is why, HY, I said below about PR. Give Labour and Lib `dems and SNP votes control of the commons for the next 15 years, which the record of PM Truss will, there can be all sorts of changes and all sorts of mountains for Conservative politics to climb to enjoy power like this again.
    If the economy is as bad as that then there would be frequent changes of government. A Labour, LD and SNP government of high inflation and frequent strikes would swiftly see a swing back to the right, even under PR. Farage would also of course win dozens of seats with PR
    I guess you prefer to stick with the current Tory high inflation and frequent strikes.
    Is the high inflation across Europe and elsewhere 'Tory high inflation' or actually 'Putin's evil war' against Ukraine
    Inflation was rising before the war. Your lot have been in power for 12 years. Since they take credit for any good news, they need to own the bad as well. It's a mess.
    It is a mess because of covid and the war and is affecting governments across the world

    Prior to covid the country was doing just fine
    If there wasn’t a war, would you be blaming “excessive cloud” or “low %s of grass hoppers” or something else patently unconnected for what is a patent failure of one after another Tory manifestos?
    But the point is there is a war and covid cost hundreds of billions
    Your lot have lost control.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 55,031

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    We're about to have an utter loon as PM. Or, at best, someone prepared to act like a loon because she thinks it will advance her career.

    TalkTV hustings:

    * Liz Truss says 'jury's out' on whether Macron is friend or foe; Sunak says he's a friend

    * Sunak says LizTruss would make a better PM than Johnson; Truss says Johnson

    * Truss says energy bills are 'massive issue' but 'bunging money' at system is not answer.


    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1562892217228079105

    Graham Brady better not book any holidays this winter.
    I’ve not seen evidence of Truss somehow surprising “on the upside”

    She needs the loons onboard to survive in post. Therefore, she’ll be a loon

    It is LOL.

    The membership are about to elect IDS mark II to the premiership. It will one hapless mishap and gaffe and on-the-hoof bonkers policy announcement after another.

    As the gaffes mount she will redouble her efforts by making up even more bonkers quiet bat people nonsense to sell.

    Meanwhile the wall of economic shit will pour over her useless Cabinet.

    I am convinced there will be a leadership election next summer.

    I’m starting to think she won’t take them into the election too. There will be like the coup against IDS, no member vote, and Wallace or Barclay, or someone similarly acceptable to most MPs will lead them into the general election.
    It would have to be Wallace by coronation a la Howard 2003 if she was replaced like IDS before the next election. We cannot have 2 leadership contests in 1 parliament
    That’s what I said, Wallace, or Barclay or such like in a coronation. Probably similar time of year, Nov 23.

    It’s like my Dad said right at the start, it’s not just the next election to worry about, Leave office having completely shredded your credibility on the economy - that credibility won’t be rebuilt quickly in opposition - lack of trust in you on economy, health, cost of living, can play even bigger five years after throwing away incumbency bonus, you can actually lose more seats not gain them in subsequent elections, five years time and in ten years time when people remember the wrong headed decisions made in the last years of the spell in power even without all the opposition parties reminding them.

    Which is why, HY, I said below about PR. Give Labour and Lib `dems and SNP votes control of the commons for the next 15 years, which the record of PM Truss will, there can be all sorts of changes and all sorts of mountains for Conservative politics to climb to enjoy power like this again.
    If the economy is as bad as that then there would be frequent changes of government. A Labour, LD and SNP government of high inflation and frequent strikes would swiftly see a swing back to the right, even under PR. Farage would also of course win dozens of seats with PR
    I guess you prefer to stick with the current Tory high inflation and frequent strikes.
    Is the high inflation across Europe and elsewhere 'Tory high inflation' or actually 'Putin's evil war' against Ukraine
    Inflation is 6.1% in France*. It's 8.8% in the UK; that's nearly half as much again.

    (*Yes France, the country roundly condemned by UK Tories as forever on the edge of catastrophe.)

    It is a lot higher in other European countries and especially in the Baltic states
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 8,508
    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    We're about to have an utter loon as PM. Or, at best, someone prepared to act like a loon because she thinks it will advance her career.

    TalkTV hustings:

    * Liz Truss says 'jury's out' on whether Macron is friend or foe; Sunak says he's a friend

    * Sunak says LizTruss would make a better PM than Johnson; Truss says Johnson

    * Truss says energy bills are 'massive issue' but 'bunging money' at system is not answer.


    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1562892217228079105

    Graham Brady better not book any holidays this winter.
    I’ve not seen evidence of Truss somehow surprising “on the upside”

    She needs the loons onboard to survive in post. Therefore, she’ll be a loon

    It is LOL.

    The membership are about to elect IDS mark II to the premiership. It will one hapless mishap and gaffe and on-the-hoof bonkers policy announcement after another.

    As the gaffes mount she will redouble her efforts by making up even more bonkers quiet bat people nonsense to sell.

    Meanwhile the wall of economic shit will pour over her useless Cabinet.

    I am convinced there will be a leadership election next summer.

    I’m starting to think she won’t take them into the election too. There will be like the coup against IDS, no member vote, and Wallace or Barclay, or someone similarly acceptable to most MPs will lead them into the general election.
    It would have to be Wallace by coronation a la Howard 2003 if she was replaced like IDS before the next election. We cannot have 2 leadership contests in 1 parliament
    That’s what I said, Wallace, or Barclay or such like in a coronation. Probably similar time of year, Nov 23.

    It’s like my Dad said right at the start, it’s not just the next election to worry about, Leave office having completely shredded your credibility on the economy - that credibility won’t be rebuilt quickly in opposition - lack of trust in you on economy, health, cost of living, can play even bigger five years after throwing away incumbency bonus, you can actually lose more seats not gain them in subsequent elections, five years time and in ten years time when people remember the wrong headed decisions made in the last years of the spell in power even without all the opposition parties reminding them.

    Which is why, HY, I said below about PR. Give Labour and Lib `dems and SNP votes control of the commons for the next 15 years, which the record of PM Truss will, there can be all sorts of changes and all sorts of mountains for Conservative politics to climb to enjoy power like this again.
    If the economy is as bad as that then there would be frequent changes of government. A Labour, LD and SNP government of high inflation and frequent strikes would swiftly see a swing back to the right, even under PR. Farage would also of course win dozens of seats with PR
    I guess you prefer to stick with the current Tory high inflation and frequent strikes.
    It could end up as bad as the 1970s, especially if the Ukraine war continues and we had 3 changes of government in that decade
    There you go again HY 🙄

    “ been in power so long, political gravity and the history against you, but we will bounce back, it will be easy.”

    Well no HY you couldn’t be more wrong. Are you trying to disract us or is it yourself from the elephant in the room here, because this is about the manner of leaving impacting on come back. It’s not about losing next election and coming back soon, the madness of making Truss PM is her ideological fantasy approach to the crisis she brings with her. It’s about losing the next election, and NEVER coming back. Perhaps ever.

    Why?

    BANG! Leave office having completely shredded your credibility on the economy - that credibility won’t be rebuilt quickly in opposition - it will play even bigger five years after throwing away incumbency bonus, you can actually lose more seats not gain them in subsequent elections, five years time and in ten years time when people remember the wrong headed decisions made in the last years of the spell in power.

    BANG! Throw in Brexit, and those remainers in the south are gone from the Tories for the generation arn’t they - they may have voted Tory at times up till now, but never again. Saw Your posting “Liz at least can regain the South” it sounds silly. In 5 years in ten years these voters will hate Brexit even more, and hate the Tory’s for it even more than they do today. Lost Remainers ain’t coming back to Tory’s now.

    BANG! And throw in electoral reform, if you are surrendering power to Starmer and Davey for 15 years with the election of Truss, you have to expect UK moving to a modern european style voting system and no House of Lords. Here winners in government won’t necessarily be a popular choice like in two party system allowed Boris in v Corbyn and ultimate insanity of just blukip vote of the electorate giving us PM Truss. Under a euro type voting system that can’t happen, coalitions will keep out the least popular, the scary, the useless and the mad is how it will work after the electoral reform that is definitely coming once Tories out of office. Centrist Conservatives voting to keep the Populist Right wing people out of power, is how it will practically work over time - the moderate Tory leadership who drags the party back to the centre and poll leads, won’t ever happen again after electoral reform, moderate conservative thinkers won’t even join the conservatives anymore because they won’t ever need to. Populist right wing agenda’s like these won’t ever get in power after electoral reform in UK.

    That’s what electing Truss, shredding credibility, leaving nothing but bad memories of the time in office will do. Tory members who voted Truss and her policies in this election are just too thick to realise their MASSIVE mistake doesn’t just matter short term it goes long into the future.

    That’s the elephant in the room here.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 23,616
    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    We're about to have an utter loon as PM. Or, at best, someone prepared to act like a loon because she thinks it will advance her career.

    TalkTV hustings:

    * Liz Truss says 'jury's out' on whether Macron is friend or foe; Sunak says he's a friend

    * Sunak says LizTruss would make a better PM than Johnson; Truss says Johnson

    * Truss says energy bills are 'massive issue' but 'bunging money' at system is not answer.


    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1562892217228079105

    Graham Brady better not book any holidays this winter.
    I’ve not seen evidence of Truss somehow surprising “on the upside”

    She needs the loons onboard to survive in post. Therefore, she’ll be a loon

    It is LOL.

    The membership are about to elect IDS mark II to the premiership. It will one hapless mishap and gaffe and on-the-hoof bonkers policy announcement after another.

    As the gaffes mount she will redouble her efforts by making up even more bonkers quiet bat people nonsense to sell.

    Meanwhile the wall of economic shit will pour over her useless Cabinet.

    I am convinced there will be a leadership election next summer.

    I’m starting to think she won’t take them into the election too. There will be like the coup against IDS, no member vote, and Wallace or Barclay, or someone similarly acceptable to most MPs will lead them into the general election.
    It would have to be Wallace by coronation a la Howard 2003 if she was replaced like IDS before the next election. We cannot have 2 leadership contests in 1 parliament
    That’s what I said, Wallace, or Barclay or such like in a coronation. Probably similar time of year, Nov 23.

    It’s like my Dad said right at the start, it’s not just the next election to worry about, Leave office having completely shredded your credibility on the economy - that credibility won’t be rebuilt quickly in opposition - lack of trust in you on economy, health, cost of living, can play even bigger five years after throwing away incumbency bonus, you can actually lose more seats not gain them in subsequent elections, five years time and in ten years time when people remember the wrong headed decisions made in the last years of the spell in power even without all the opposition parties reminding them.

    Which is why, HY, I said below about PR. Give Labour and Lib `dems and SNP votes control of the commons for the next 15 years, which the record of PM Truss will, there can be all sorts of changes and all sorts of mountains for Conservative politics to climb to enjoy power like this again.
    If the economy is as bad as that then there would be frequent changes of government. A Labour, LD and SNP government of high inflation and frequent strikes would swiftly see a swing back to the right, even under PR. Farage would also of course win dozens of seats with PR
    I guess you prefer to stick with the current Tory high inflation and frequent strikes.
    It could end up as bad as the 1970s, especially if the Ukraine war continues and we had 3 changes of government in that decade
    We will be lucky if it’s only as bad as the 1970s

    Sometimes I think we’re headed for the 1940s
    Or maybe even 1930s - much worse. Look how that ended.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 10,431

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    We're about to have an utter loon as PM. Or, at best, someone prepared to act like a loon because she thinks it will advance her career.

    TalkTV hustings:

    * Liz Truss says 'jury's out' on whether Macron is friend or foe; Sunak says he's a friend

    * Sunak says LizTruss would make a better PM than Johnson; Truss says Johnson

    * Truss says energy bills are 'massive issue' but 'bunging money' at system is not answer.


    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1562892217228079105

    Graham Brady better not book any holidays this winter.
    I’ve not seen evidence of Truss somehow surprising “on the upside”

    She needs the loons onboard to survive in post. Therefore, she’ll be a loon

    It is LOL.

    The membership are about to elect IDS mark II to the premiership. It will one hapless mishap and gaffe and on-the-hoof bonkers policy announcement after another.

    As the gaffes mount she will redouble her efforts by making up even more bonkers quiet bat people nonsense to sell.

    Meanwhile the wall of economic shit will pour over her useless Cabinet.

    I am convinced there will be a leadership election next summer.

    I’m starting to think she won’t take them into the election too. There will be like the coup against IDS, no member vote, and Wallace or Barclay, or someone similarly acceptable to most MPs will lead them into the general election.
    It would have to be Wallace by coronation a la Howard 2003 if she was replaced like IDS before the next election. We cannot have 2 leadership contests in 1 parliament
    That’s what I said, Wallace, or Barclay or such like in a coronation. Probably similar time of year, Nov 23.

    It’s like my Dad said right at the start, it’s not just the next election to worry about, Leave office having completely shredded your credibility on the economy - that credibility won’t be rebuilt quickly in opposition - lack of trust in you on economy, health, cost of living, can play even bigger five years after throwing away incumbency bonus, you can actually lose more seats not gain them in subsequent elections, five years time and in ten years time when people remember the wrong headed decisions made in the last years of the spell in power even without all the opposition parties reminding them.

    Which is why, HY, I said below about PR. Give Labour and Lib `dems and SNP votes control of the commons for the next 15 years, which the record of PM Truss will, there can be all sorts of changes and all sorts of mountains for Conservative politics to climb to enjoy power like this again.
    If the economy is as bad as that then there would be frequent changes of government. A Labour, LD and SNP government of high inflation and frequent strikes would swiftly see a swing back to the right, even under PR. Farage would also of course win dozens of seats with PR
    I guess you prefer to stick with the current Tory high inflation and frequent strikes.
    Is the high inflation across Europe and elsewhere 'Tory high inflation' or actually 'Putin's evil war' against Ukraine
    Inflation is 6.1% in France*. It's 8.8% in the UK; that's nearly half as much again.

    (*Yes France, the country roundly condemned by UK Tories as forever on the edge of catastrophe.)

    Their choice of nuclear paying dividends. Our leaders since the 70s have massively failed the nation on nuclear.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 42,932

    Truss’s pathetic, embarrassing pandering to a crowd of xenophobic bigots does raise very serious questions about her judgment. She’s going to be asked about the Macron comments again and again - and she’s going to have to row back. Again.

    Where does this ridiculous, bed-wetting attitude to friction between allies come from? Macron has personally delivered a speech questioning whether the UK was still a friend and, in so many words, saying that the jury is out.
    If the UK’s foreign secretary will not say that France’s head of state is a friend then it’s hard to see how you can describe the two countries as allies. Vladimir Putin will be delighted.
    As I said, Macron has personally questioned whether the UK is a friend. Where is your condemnation of him, or does he get a pass because he's French and therefore
    automatically much more sophisticated and adept at the diplomatic arts?
    I haven’t seen or read the Macron speech. I’d be happy to comment on it once I have. Can you link?

    Assuming he did say it as you describe, though, we are clearly no longer allies.

    He linked issues like licences for French fishermen to "remaining friends" with the UK.

    "Qu’il s’agisse de la mise en œuvre du protocole sur l’Irlande du Nord ou de droits de nos pêcheurs, comme il s’agira d’ailleurs d’immanquables sujets de discussions à venir. Soyons fermes et clairs, pour que les engagements pris soient tenus. C'est la condition pour pouvoir rester amis."

    https://presidence-francaise.consilium.europa.eu/fr/actualites/discours-du-president-de-la-republique-devant-le-parlement-europeen-strasbourg-le-mercredi-19-janvier-2022/
    So breaking an agreement we have only just signed would be seen as an unfriendly act. No shit Sherlock.

    Actually, the main thing this shows is how leaden-footed Truss and Sunak are. It was a bit of a gotcha question (admit to being friends with the French or be crass and rude). The smart thing to do, the thing Boris would have done is to ride the two horses...

    "The British and French have a long history of disagreements and our current contretemps is in that great and glorious tradition . But we never never walk away from each other, and the point of Brexit is to allow Britain and France, myself and M. Macron to be friendly neighbours rather than grumpy housemates."
    Missing him already?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 23,616
    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    Cookie said:

    Never mind any of this shit, i've just had to evict the biggest spider ive ever seen. Fucking thing might as well have been Shelob. Nothing gets that big without committing atrocities.
    If it gets back in.......
    Pray for me tonight peebee.

    Please post early tomorrow, so that we know you’ve made it through the night… :D
    I've got my bravest teddy on first watch. Veteran of the 'funny looking gross insect' incident
    What you need is a cat.
    If you have never seen a cat dealing with a September spider you have missed an experience. Chewing away, puzzled look on its face - "I - assume - I was supposed to do this, but I'm honestly not finding it as rewarding as I anticipated".
    I put two whoopers out yesterday and our dog ate them before they could get away, although one put up a sterling effort to escape. He also eats wasps and never seems to come to any harm.
    Right you all need to send your furries to me. Im conscripting furry friends to deal with what im increasingly inclined to believe are Macron voting French giant spiders
    If you had our dog a few spiders will be the least of your problems. He will steal your dinner and run around your flat with the loo brush in his mouth just for starters.
    A loo brush for starters? What are you having for mains?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 104,912

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    We're about to have an utter loon as PM. Or, at best, someone prepared to act like a loon because she thinks it will advance her career.

    TalkTV hustings:

    * Liz Truss says 'jury's out' on whether Macron is friend or foe; Sunak says he's a friend

    * Sunak says LizTruss would make a better PM than Johnson; Truss says Johnson

    * Truss says energy bills are 'massive issue' but 'bunging money' at system is not answer.


    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1562892217228079105

    Graham Brady better not book any holidays this winter.
    I’ve not seen evidence of Truss somehow surprising “on the upside”

    She needs the loons onboard to survive in post. Therefore, she’ll be a loon

    It is LOL.

    The membership are about to elect IDS mark II to the premiership. It will one hapless mishap and gaffe and on-the-hoof bonkers policy announcement after another.

    As the gaffes mount she will redouble her efforts by making up even more bonkers quiet bat people nonsense to sell.

    Meanwhile the wall of economic shit will pour over her useless Cabinet.

    I am convinced there will be a leadership election next summer.

    I’m starting to think she won’t take them into the election too. There will be like the coup against IDS, no member vote, and Wallace or Barclay, or someone similarly acceptable to most MPs will lead them into the general election.
    It would have to be Wallace by coronation a la Howard 2003 if she was replaced like IDS before the next election. We cannot have 2 leadership contests in 1 parliament
    That’s what I said, Wallace, or Barclay or such like in a coronation. Probably similar time of year, Nov 23.

    It’s like my Dad said right at the start, it’s not just the next election to worry about, Leave office having completely shredded your credibility on the economy - that credibility won’t be rebuilt quickly in opposition - lack of trust in you on economy, health, cost of living, can play even bigger five years after throwing away incumbency bonus, you can actually lose more seats not gain them in subsequent elections, five years time and in ten years time when people remember the wrong headed decisions made in the last years of the spell in power even without all the opposition parties reminding them.

    Which is why, HY, I said below about PR. Give Labour and Lib `dems and SNP votes control of the commons for the next 15 years, which the record of PM Truss will, there can be all sorts of changes and all sorts of mountains for Conservative politics to climb to enjoy power like this again.
    If the economy is as bad as that then there would be frequent changes of government. A Labour, LD and SNP government of high inflation and frequent strikes would swiftly see a swing back to the right, even under PR. Farage would also of course win dozens of seats with PR
    I guess you prefer to stick with the current Tory high inflation and frequent strikes.
    Is the high inflation across Europe and elsewhere 'Tory high inflation' or actually 'Putin's evil war' against Ukraine
    Inflation is 6.1% in France*. It's 8.8% in the UK; that's nearly half as much again.

    (*Yes France, the country roundly condemned by UK Tories as forever on the edge of catastrophe.)

    Inflation is 8.9% across the EU

    https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/documents/2995521/14644650/2-29072022-AP-EN.pdf/8b14d87f-df6c-aeb5-7dc9-40c60e4f6bc2#:~:text=Euro area annual inflation is,office of the European Union.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 1,307
    Note that 428000 of these visas were for students, a record high.

    Net migration was 238000 June 20 to June 21.

    It’s possible this will feed through to the net migration figures too - didn’t Theresa May make some change about adding students to the net figures? Did that remain in place?
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 19,538
    "Look over there, look at Estonia, look at Latvia, look anywhere but here. It's worse in Ukraine. It's a global thing. It's got nothing to do with us, we've only been in power for 12 years. We're just settling in. Give us more time."
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 55,031
    I expect some may have to revisit their predictions about Truss by the end of September, but then they may not

    I am content to wait and in the meantime wish everyone a good night's rest
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 23,616
    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    We're about to have an utter loon as PM. Or, at best, someone prepared to act like a loon because she thinks it will advance her career.

    TalkTV hustings:

    * Liz Truss says 'jury's out' on whether Macron is friend or foe; Sunak says he's a friend

    * Sunak says LizTruss would make a better PM than Johnson; Truss says Johnson

    * Truss says energy bills are 'massive issue' but 'bunging money' at system is not answer.


    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1562892217228079105

    Graham Brady better not book any holidays this winter.
    I’ve not seen evidence of Truss somehow surprising “on the upside”

    She needs the loons onboard to survive in post. Therefore, she’ll be a loon

    It is LOL.

    The membership are about to elect IDS mark II to the premiership. It will one hapless mishap and gaffe and on-the-hoof bonkers policy announcement after another.

    As the gaffes mount she will redouble her efforts by making up even more bonkers quiet bat people nonsense to sell.

    Meanwhile the wall of economic shit will pour over her useless Cabinet.

    I am convinced there will be a leadership election next summer.

    I’m starting to think she won’t take them into the election too. There will be like the coup against IDS, no member vote, and Wallace or Barclay, or someone similarly acceptable to most MPs will lead them into the general election.
    It would have to be Wallace by coronation a la Howard 2003 if she was replaced like IDS before the next election. We cannot have 2 leadership contests in 1 parliament
    That’s what I said, Wallace, or Barclay or such like in a coronation. Probably similar time of year, Nov 23.

    It’s like my Dad said right at the start, it’s not just the next election to worry about, Leave office having completely shredded your credibility on the economy - that credibility won’t be rebuilt quickly in opposition - lack of trust in you on economy, health, cost of living, can play even bigger five years after throwing away incumbency bonus, you can actually lose more seats not gain them in subsequent elections, five years time and in ten years time when people remember the wrong headed decisions made in the last years of the spell in power even without all the opposition parties reminding them.

    Which is why, HY, I said below about PR. Give Labour and Lib `dems and SNP votes control of the commons for the next 15 years, which the record of PM Truss will, there can be all sorts of changes and all sorts of mountains for Conservative politics to climb to enjoy power like this again.
    If the economy is as bad as that then there would be frequent changes of government. A Labour, LD and SNP government of high inflation and frequent strikes would swiftly see a swing back to the right, even under PR. Farage would also of course win dozens of seats with PR
    I guess you prefer to stick with the current Tory high inflation and frequent strikes.
    Is the high inflation across Europe and elsewhere 'Tory high inflation' or actually 'Putin's evil war' against Ukraine
    Inflation is 6.1% in France*. It's 8.8% in the UK; that's nearly half as much again.

    (*Yes France, the country roundly condemned by UK Tories as forever on the edge of catastrophe.)

    Inflation is 8.9% across the EU

    https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/documents/2995521/14644650/2-29072022-AP-EN.pdf/8b14d87f-df6c-aeb5-7dc9-40c60e4f6bc2#:~:text=Euro area annual inflation is,office of the European Union.
    Heavily slanted by the Baltic states all having >20% inflation.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 104,912

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    We're about to have an utter loon as PM. Or, at best, someone prepared to act like a loon because she thinks it will advance her career.

    TalkTV hustings:

    * Liz Truss says 'jury's out' on whether Macron is friend or foe; Sunak says he's a friend

    * Sunak says LizTruss would make a better PM than Johnson; Truss says Johnson

    * Truss says energy bills are 'massive issue' but 'bunging money' at system is not answer.


    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1562892217228079105

    Graham Brady better not book any holidays this winter.
    I’ve not seen evidence of Truss somehow surprising “on the upside”

    She needs the loons onboard to survive in post. Therefore, she’ll be a loon

    It is LOL.

    The membership are about to elect IDS mark II to the premiership. It will one hapless mishap and gaffe and on-the-hoof bonkers policy announcement after another.

    As the gaffes mount she will redouble her efforts by making up even more bonkers quiet bat people nonsense to sell.

    Meanwhile the wall of economic shit will pour over her useless Cabinet.

    I am convinced there will be a leadership election next summer.

    I’m starting to think she won’t take them into the election too. There will be like the coup against IDS, no member vote, and Wallace or Barclay, or someone similarly acceptable to most MPs will lead them into the general election.
    It would have to be Wallace by coronation a la Howard 2003 if she was replaced like IDS before the next election. We cannot have 2 leadership contests in 1 parliament
    That’s what I said, Wallace, or Barclay or such like in a coronation. Probably similar time of year, Nov 23.

    It’s like my Dad said right at the start, it’s not just the next election to worry about, Leave office having completely shredded your credibility on the economy - that credibility won’t be rebuilt quickly in opposition - lack of trust in you on economy, health, cost of living, can play even bigger five years after throwing away incumbency bonus, you can actually lose more seats not gain them in subsequent elections, five years time and in ten years time when people remember the wrong headed decisions made in the last years of the spell in power even without all the opposition parties reminding them.

    Which is why, HY, I said below about PR. Give Labour and Lib `dems and SNP votes control of the commons for the next 15 years, which the record of PM Truss will, there can be all sorts of changes and all sorts of mountains for Conservative politics to climb to enjoy power like this again.
    If the economy is as bad as that then there would be frequent changes of government. A Labour, LD and SNP government of high inflation and frequent strikes would swiftly see a swing back to the right, even under PR. Farage would also of course win dozens of seats with PR
    I guess you prefer to stick with the current Tory high inflation and frequent strikes.
    It could end up as bad as the 1970s, especially if the Ukraine war continues and we had 3 changes of government in that decade
    There you go again HY 🙄

    “ been in power so long, political gravity and the history against you, but we will bounce back, it will be easy.”

    Well no HY you couldn’t be more wrong. Are you trying to disract us or is it yourself from the elephant in the room here, because this is about the manner of leaving impacting on come back. It’s not about losing next election and coming back soon, the madness of making Truss PM is her ideological fantasy approach to the crisis she brings with her. It’s about losing the next election, and NEVER coming back. Perhaps ever.

    Why?

    BANG! Leave office having completely shredded your credibility on the economy - that credibility won’t be rebuilt quickly in opposition - it will play even bigger five years after throwing away incumbency bonus, you can actually lose more seats not gain them in subsequent elections, five years time and in ten years time when people remember the wrong headed decisions made in the last years of the spell in power.

    BANG! Throw in Brexit, and those remainers in the south are gone from the Tories for the generation arn’t they - they may have voted Tory at times up till now, but never again. Saw Your posting “Liz at least can regain the South” it sounds silly. In 5 years in ten years these voters will hate Brexit even more, and hate the Tory’s for it even more than they do today. Lost Remainers ain’t coming back to Tory’s now.

    BANG! And throw in electoral reform, if you are surrendering power to Starmer and Davey for 15 years with the election of Truss, you have to expect UK moving to a modern european style voting system and no House of Lords. Here winners in government won’t necessarily be a popular choice like in two party system allowed Boris in v Corbyn and ultimate insanity of just blukip vote of the electorate giving us PM Truss. Under a euro type voting system that can’t happen, coalitions will keep out the least popular, the scary, the useless and the mad is how it will work after the electoral reform that is definitely coming once Tories out of office. Centrist Conservatives voting to keep the Populist Right wing people out of power, is how it will practically work over time - the moderate Tory leadership who drags the party back to the centre and poll leads, won’t ever happen again after electoral reform, moderate conservative thinkers won’t even join the conservatives anymore because they won’t ever need to. Populist right wing agenda’s like these won’t ever get in power after electoral reform in UK.

    That’s what electing Truss, shredding credibility, leaving nothing but bad memories of the time in office will do. Tory members who voted Truss and her policies in this election are just too thick to realise their MASSIVE mistake doesn’t just matter short term it goes long into the future.

    That’s the elephant in the room here.
    Yet the only rightwing election winner in a big western nation since 2020 is likely to be Meloni next month, leading a populist right government in an Italy which has PR
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 23,616

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    We're about to have an utter loon as PM. Or, at best, someone prepared to act like a loon because she thinks it will advance her career.

    TalkTV hustings:

    * Liz Truss says 'jury's out' on whether Macron is friend or foe; Sunak says he's a friend

    * Sunak says LizTruss would make a better PM than Johnson; Truss says Johnson

    * Truss says energy bills are 'massive issue' but 'bunging money' at system is not answer.


    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1562892217228079105

    Graham Brady better not book any holidays this winter.
    I’ve not seen evidence of Truss somehow surprising “on the upside”

    She needs the loons onboard to survive in post. Therefore, she’ll be a loon

    It is LOL.

    The membership are about to elect IDS mark II to the premiership. It will one hapless mishap and gaffe and on-the-hoof bonkers policy announcement after another.

    As the gaffes mount she will redouble her efforts by making up even more bonkers quiet bat people nonsense to sell.

    Meanwhile the wall of economic shit will pour over her useless Cabinet.

    I am convinced there will be a leadership election next summer.

    I’m starting to think she won’t take them into the election too. There will be like the coup against IDS, no member vote, and Wallace or Barclay, or someone similarly acceptable to most MPs will lead them into the general election.
    It would have to be Wallace by coronation a la Howard 2003 if she was replaced like IDS before the next election. We cannot have 2 leadership contests in 1 parliament
    That’s what I said, Wallace, or Barclay or such like in a coronation. Probably similar time of year, Nov 23.

    It’s like my Dad said right at the start, it’s not just the next election to worry about, Leave office having completely shredded your credibility on the economy - that credibility won’t be rebuilt quickly in opposition - lack of trust in you on economy, health, cost of living, can play even bigger five years after throwing away incumbency bonus, you can actually lose more seats not gain them in subsequent elections, five years time and in ten years time when people remember the wrong headed decisions made in the last years of the spell in power even without all the opposition parties reminding them.

    Which is why, HY, I said below about PR. Give Labour and Lib `dems and SNP votes control of the commons for the next 15 years, which the record of PM Truss will, there can be all sorts of changes and all sorts of mountains for Conservative politics to climb to enjoy power like this again.
    If the economy is as bad as that then there would be frequent changes of government. A Labour, LD and SNP government of high inflation and frequent strikes would swiftly see a swing back to the right, even under PR. Farage would also of course win dozens of seats with PR
    I guess you prefer to stick with the current Tory high inflation and frequent strikes.
    Is the high inflation across Europe and elsewhere 'Tory high inflation' or actually 'Putin's evil war' against Ukraine
    Inflation is 6.1% in France*. It's 8.8% in the UK; that's nearly half as much again.

    (*Yes France, the country roundly condemned by UK Tories as forever on the edge of catastrophe.)

    Their choice of nuclear paying dividends. Our leaders since the 70s have massively failed the nation on nuclear.
    Also having control of your national electricity supplier seems to be paying dividends.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 104,912

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    We're about to have an utter loon as PM. Or, at best, someone prepared to act like a loon because she thinks it will advance her career.

    TalkTV hustings:

    * Liz Truss says 'jury's out' on whether Macron is friend or foe; Sunak says he's a friend

    * Sunak says LizTruss would make a better PM than Johnson; Truss says Johnson

    * Truss says energy bills are 'massive issue' but 'bunging money' at system is not answer.


    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1562892217228079105

    Graham Brady better not book any holidays this winter.
    I’ve not seen evidence of Truss somehow surprising “on the upside”

    She needs the loons onboard to survive in post. Therefore, she’ll be a loon

    It is LOL.

    The membership are about to elect IDS mark II to the premiership. It will one hapless mishap and gaffe and on-the-hoof bonkers policy announcement after another.

    As the gaffes mount she will redouble her efforts by making up even more bonkers quiet bat people nonsense to sell.

    Meanwhile the wall of economic shit will pour over her useless Cabinet.

    I am convinced there will be a leadership election next summer.

    I’m starting to think she won’t take them into the election too. There will be like the coup against IDS, no member vote, and Wallace or Barclay, or someone similarly acceptable to most MPs will lead them into the general election.
    It would have to be Wallace by coronation a la Howard 2003 if she was replaced like IDS before the next election. We cannot have 2 leadership contests in 1 parliament
    That’s what I said, Wallace, or Barclay or such like in a coronation. Probably similar time of year, Nov 23.

    It’s like my Dad said right at the start, it’s not just the next election to worry about, Leave office having completely shredded your credibility on the economy - that credibility won’t be rebuilt quickly in opposition - lack of trust in you on economy, health, cost of living, can play even bigger five years after throwing away incumbency bonus, you can actually lose more seats not gain them in subsequent elections, five years time and in ten years time when people remember the wrong headed decisions made in the last years of the spell in power even without all the opposition parties reminding them.

    Which is why, HY, I said below about PR. Give Labour and Lib `dems and SNP votes control of the commons for the next 15 years, which the record of PM Truss will, there can be all sorts of changes and all sorts of mountains for Conservative politics to climb to enjoy power like this again.
    If the economy is as bad as that then there would be frequent changes of government. A Labour, LD and SNP government of high inflation and frequent strikes would swiftly see a swing back to the right, even under PR. Farage would also of course win dozens of seats with PR
    I guess you prefer to stick with the current Tory high inflation and frequent strikes.
    Is the high inflation across Europe and elsewhere 'Tory high inflation' or actually 'Putin's evil war' against Ukraine
    Inflation is 6.1% in France*. It's 8.8% in the UK; that's nearly half as much again.

    (*Yes France, the country roundly condemned by UK Tories as forever on the edge of catastrophe.)

    Inflation is 8.9% across the EU

    https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/documents/2995521/14644650/2-29072022-AP-EN.pdf/8b14d87f-df6c-aeb5-7dc9-40c60e4f6bc2#:~:text=Euro area annual inflation is,office of the European Union.
    Heavily slanted by the Baltic states all having >20% inflation.
    It is 8.5% in Germany and 10% in Spain
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 37,387
    I started the 1970s living in a house with no central heating and a little black and white telly. I ended it living in one with central heating and a slightly larger colour one. My wife’s family got their first inside toilet in the 1970s. It was actually a decade in which the standard of living for most ordinary people improved dramatically.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 15,161

    rcs1000 said:

    murali_s said:

    Well done that woman. Nothing works in this country. As I keep saying, the Tories are turning this country into a stinking latrine.

    You seem to miss the point that Labour in Wales has been in power longer than the conservatives and ambulance services here are just as appalling
    You miss the point that your point is essentially a non-sequitur.
    Surely it implies that something other than political choices might be at play? I.e. covid stress on hospitals?
    The criticism is that “nothing works”.
    That’s entirely on the government of 12 years, much of which was spent delivering austerity aka failing to mend the roof.

    What Labour in Wales is doing (I am no fan) is really neither here nor there.

    At core, I am merely highlighting again BigG’s incessant Tory apologism.

    If Wales did not have the SAME issues the criticism would be fair.
    Nothing works in Wales either, but they don’t work for different reasons.
    And they are?
    The Welsh are fundamentally lazy and thick.
    That is straightforward racism and you should be banned.
    Yeah, but if we ban TSE for racism, then we'd have to ban @Leon too. And where would it end? Would we start banning posters for their laughably lazy tropes about Remainer skiiers?
    I don't think being a Remainer or being a skiier is a protected characteristic under the Equality Act. That is the difference.
    Is being Welsh though? Genuine question. And what about English?
    Racism can manifest itself as a belief in racial inferiority or racial superiority.

    A statement that the Welsh are fundamentally

    lazy and thick is very clearly racist. As would be a statement that the English or Irish are

    fundamentally lazy and thick.
    Yep. It was a moronic post.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 1,307

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    We're about to have an utter loon as PM. Or, at best, someone prepared to act like a loon because she thinks it will advance her career.

    TalkTV hustings:

    * Liz Truss says 'jury's out' on whether Macron is friend or foe; Sunak says he's a friend

    * Sunak says LizTruss would make a better PM than Johnson; Truss says Johnson

    * Truss says energy bills are 'massive issue' but 'bunging money' at system is not answer.


    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1562892217228079105

    Graham Brady better not book any holidays this winter.
    I’ve not seen evidence of Truss somehow surprising “on the upside”

    She needs the loons onboard to survive in post. Therefore, she’ll be a loon

    It is LOL.

    The membership are about to elect IDS mark II to the premiership. It will one hapless mishap and gaffe and on-the-hoof bonkers policy announcement after another.

    As the gaffes mount she will redouble her efforts by making up even more bonkers quiet bat people nonsense to sell.

    Meanwhile the wall of economic shit will pour over her useless Cabinet.

    I am convinced there will be a leadership election next summer.

    I’m starting to think she won’t take them into the election too. There will be like the coup against IDS, no member vote, and Wallace or Barclay, or someone similarly acceptable to most MPs will lead them into the general election.
    It would have to be Wallace by coronation a la Howard 2003 if she was replaced like IDS before the next election. We cannot have 2 leadership contests in 1 parliament
    That’s what I said, Wallace, or Barclay or such like in a coronation. Probably similar time of year, Nov 23.

    It’s like my Dad said right at the start, it’s not just the next election to worry about, Leave office having completely shredded your credibility on the economy - that credibility won’t be rebuilt quickly in opposition - lack of trust in you on economy, health, cost of living, can play even bigger five years after throwing away incumbency bonus, you can actually lose more seats not gain them in subsequent elections, five years time and in ten years time when people remember the wrong headed decisions made in the last years of the spell in power even without all the opposition parties reminding them.

    Which is why, HY, I said below about PR. Give Labour and Lib `dems and SNP votes control of the commons for the next 15 years, which the record of PM Truss will, there can be all sorts of changes and all sorts of mountains for Conservative politics to climb to enjoy power like this again.
    If the economy is as bad as that then there would be frequent changes of government. A Labour, LD and SNP government of high inflation and frequent strikes would swiftly see a swing back to the right, even under PR. Farage would also of course win dozens of seats with PR
    I guess you prefer to stick with the current Tory high inflation and frequent strikes.
    Is the high inflation across Europe and elsewhere 'Tory high inflation' or actually 'Putin's evil war' against Ukraine
    Inflation is 6.1% in France*. It's 8.8% in the UK; that's nearly half as much again.

    (*Yes France, the country roundly condemned by UK Tories as forever on the edge of catastrophe.)

    Inflation is 8.9% across the EU

    https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/documents/2995521/14644650/2-29072022-AP-EN.pdf/8b14d87f-df6c-aeb5-7dc9-40c60e4f6bc2#:~:text=Euro area annual inflation is,office of the European Union.
    Heavily slanted by the Baltic states all having >20% inflation.
    Heavily? They have very small economies.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 42,932

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    We're about to have an utter loon as PM. Or, at best, someone prepared to act like a loon because she thinks it will advance her career.

    TalkTV hustings:

    * Liz Truss says 'jury's out' on whether Macron is friend or foe; Sunak says he's a friend

    * Sunak says LizTruss would make a better PM than Johnson; Truss says Johnson

    * Truss says energy bills are 'massive issue' but 'bunging money' at system is not answer.


    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1562892217228079105

    Graham Brady better not book any holidays this winter.
    I’ve not seen evidence of Truss somehow surprising “on the upside”

    She needs the loons onboard to survive in post. Therefore, she’ll be a loon

    It is LOL.

    The membership are about to elect IDS mark II to the premiership. It will one hapless mishap and gaffe and on-the-hoof bonkers policy announcement after another.

    As the gaffes mount she will redouble her efforts by making up even more bonkers quiet bat people nonsense to sell.

    Meanwhile the wall of economic shit will pour over her useless Cabinet.

    I am convinced there will be a leadership election next summer.

    I’m starting to think she won’t take them into the election too. There will be like the coup against IDS, no member vote, and Wallace or Barclay, or someone similarly acceptable to most MPs will lead them into the general election.
    It would have to be Wallace by coronation a la Howard 2003 if she was replaced like IDS before the next election. We cannot have 2 leadership contests in 1 parliament
    That’s what I said, Wallace, or Barclay or such like in a coronation. Probably similar time of year, Nov 23.

    It’s like my Dad said right at the start, it’s not just the next election to worry about, Leave office having completely shredded your credibility on the economy - that credibility won’t be rebuilt quickly in opposition - lack of trust in you on economy, health, cost of living, can play even bigger five years after throwing away incumbency bonus, you can actually lose more seats not gain them in subsequent elections, five years time and in ten years time when people remember the wrong headed decisions made in the last years of the spell in power even without all the opposition parties reminding them.

    Which is why, HY, I said below about PR. Give Labour and Lib `dems and SNP votes control of the commons for the next 15 years, which the record of PM Truss will, there can be all sorts of changes and all sorts of mountains for Conservative politics to climb to enjoy power like this again.
    If the economy is as bad as that then there would be frequent changes of government. A Labour, LD and SNP government of high inflation and frequent strikes would swiftly see a swing back to the right, even under PR. Farage would also of course win dozens of seats with PR
    I guess you prefer to stick with the current Tory high inflation and frequent strikes.
    Is the high inflation across Europe and elsewhere 'Tory high inflation' or actually 'Putin's evil war' against Ukraine
    Inflation is 6.1% in France*. It's 8.8% in the UK; that's nearly half as much again.

    (*Yes France, the country roundly condemned by UK Tories as forever on the edge of catastrophe.)

    Inflation is 8.9% across the EU

    https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/documents/2995521/14644650/2-29072022-AP-EN.pdf/8b14d87f-df6c-aeb5-7dc9-40c60e4f6bc2#:~:text=Euro area annual inflation is,office of the European Union.
    Heavily slanted by the Baltic states all having >20% inflation.
    The Baltic states collectively are less than 1.4% of the EU population. Whatever effect they are having, it is not "heavily slanting" the EU figures.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 2,551
    Leon said:

    nico679 said:

    Leon said:

    nico679 said:

    nico679 said:

    Wow even the DT is admitting the truth .

    A record 1.2 million visas issued , immigration from the EU has collapsed and been replaced by a large spike in non EU immigration . 1.12 million non EU nationals is a record up 70% on pre Brexit levels . So that means only 80,000 visas were issued to EU nationals .

    Good to see immigration from around the world
    Leavers didn’t vote for 1.12 million visas a year issued . Anyway at least we’ll not have to worry about not being able to find a good curry ! Patel actually told the truth for once , she said vote Brexit and we can ship in more curry chefs .
    Er, the reason we have issued so many more visas is BECAUSE we no longer have unrestricted Free Movement. So we can take back control of the influx of workers: by issuing visas as we wish (EU citizens didn’t need them)

    This is an example of Brexit doing exactly what was promised

    Oh come on stop this nonsense . You and everyone on here know Leave voters thought immigration was going to come down . The right wing papers didn’t say vote Brexit to keep immigration high .
    You may say that but that is a different point, and merely your opinion. The Brexit campaign promised a likely end to Free Movement and an Aussie style points system. So it is

    Personally I think HMG is utterly spineless on immigration and should be flying every dinghy person to Rwanda right now. Presumably you disagree with that, but then you don’t know what you want
    We were told services were going to collapse because of immigration , and yet now papers like the DM never say anything even though immigration is higher . Clearly they duped their readers and daren’t mention that . I’ve always been pro immigration and don’t care where people come from as long as they’re law abiding citizens. My irritation is the revisionism being undertaken by some who are now pretending to have been on Mars during the EU ref campaign .
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 19,538

    I started the 1970s living in a house with no central heating and a little black and white telly. I ended it living in one with central heating and a slightly larger colour one. My wife’s family got their first inside toilet in the 1970s. It was actually a decade in which the standard of living for most ordinary people improved dramatically.

    Luxury. We started the 70s in a septic tank in a lake.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 23,616

    I expect some may have to revisit their predictions about Truss by the end of September, but then they may not

    I am content to wait and in the meantime wish everyone a good night's rest

    Some will, I am sure.

    I just happen to think Barty will be one of them.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 19,538
    How long will it be before Tories blame Putin for record ambulance waiting times?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 27,909

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    Cookie said:

    Never mind any of this shit, i've just had to evict the biggest spider ive ever seen. Fucking thing might as well have been Shelob. Nothing gets that big without committing atrocities.
    If it gets back in.......
    Pray for me tonight peebee.

    Please post early tomorrow, so that we know you’ve made it through the night… :D
    I've got my bravest teddy on first watch. Veteran of the 'funny looking gross insect' incident
    What you need is a cat.
    If you have never seen a cat dealing with a September spider you have missed an experience. Chewing away, puzzled look on its face - "I - assume - I was supposed to do this, but I'm honestly not finding it as rewarding as I anticipated".
    I put two whoopers out yesterday and our dog ate them before they could get away, although one put up a sterling effort to escape. He also eats wasps and never seems to come to any harm.
    Right you all need to send your furries to me. Im conscripting furry friends to deal with what im increasingly inclined to believe are Macron voting French giant spiders
    If you had our dog a few spiders will be the least of your problems. He will steal your dinner and run around your flat with the loo brush in his mouth just for starters.
    A loo brush for starters? What are you having for mains?
    Number Two, of course.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 7,871

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    Cookie said:

    Never mind any of this shit, i've just had to evict the biggest spider ive ever seen. Fucking thing might as well have been Shelob. Nothing gets that big without committing atrocities.
    If it gets back in.......
    Pray for me tonight peebee.

    Please post early tomorrow, so that we know you’ve made it through the night… :D
    I've got my bravest teddy on first watch. Veteran of the 'funny looking gross insect' incident
    What you need is a cat.
    If you have never seen a cat dealing with a September spider you have missed an experience. Chewing away, puzzled look on its face - "I - assume - I was supposed to do this, but I'm honestly not finding it as rewarding as I anticipated".
    I put two whoopers out yesterday and our dog ate them before they could get away, although one put up a sterling effort to escape. He also eats wasps and never seems to come to any harm.
    Right you all need to send your furries to me. Im conscripting furry friends to deal with what im increasingly inclined to believe are Macron voting French giant spiders
    If you had our dog a few spiders will be the least of your problems. He will steal your dinner and run around your flat with the loo brush in his mouth just for starters.
    A loo brush for starters? What are you having for mains?
    So far one iPhone, umpteen pairs of glasses, my wallet and a pair of binoculars.
This discussion has been closed.