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An early by-election in Nadine’s seat? – politicalbetting.com

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  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,424

    Just got our FTTP, 500Mb download is ridiculous

    You can now download all the porn from the internet in record time!
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,363
    DavidL said:

    Mad Nad will presumably only accept a peerage if she is accepting that her cabinet career is over. Whilst this is something for all sane Conservatives to devoutly pray for I would not be so confident. She has been pretty chummy with Truss of late.

    Can't she be in the Cabinet from the Lords?
    I mean. She doesn't deserve to be, but she could.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,184
    Cyclefree said:

    Might I gently intervene in the music debate and simply point out that nothing is as good as Bach.

    There. Glad to have cleared that up.

    You're welcome.

    (Though I will allow 3 small exceptions: the Dies Irae in Mozart's Requiem, the Libera Me ending of Verdi's Requiem and Elgar's Salut d'Amour played here by Aldo Ciccolini - https://youtu.be/pkcHjmXmEg0).

    Interesting you should mention Mozart's Requiem. I first listened to the piece while driving alone to a funeral, and I'm convinced that this means it still has an extra emotional charge for me when I listen to it again.

    Much as I have enjoyed listening to a lot of Bach music, doing so in a dusty music hall with an audience mostly old enough to nearly be closer to contemporaries of Bach then myself does not really create the same emotional impression.

    For similar reasons the Bryan Adams album Reckless is one that I have a strong emotional bond with that I'm aware will be inexplicable to anyone else considering it solely on its objective musical merits.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,686

    Just got our FTTP, 500Mb download is ridiculous

    Just think, everything you post on here will arrive a millionth of a second quicker.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,226
    DavidL said:

    Mad Nad will presumably only accept a peerage if she is accepting that her cabinet career is over. Whilst this is something for all sane Conservatives to devoutly pray for I would not be so confident. She has been pretty chummy with Truss of late.

    I doubt if the prayers of the dozen or so of you that are left would make sufficient difference, I'm afraid.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,034

    China announces fresh military drills around Taiwan

    https://twitter.com/reuterschina/status/1556536151615217665

    I think these exercises are going to carry on around the republic of China for a while.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,219
    Sandpit said:

    Just got our FTTP, 500Mb download is ridiculous

    You can now download all the porn from the internet in record time!
    Probably better to work on themes first - maybe some are more knowledgeable than me, but I believe step-moms may be a small subset.
  • dixiedean said:

    DavidL said:

    Mad Nad will presumably only accept a peerage if she is accepting that her cabinet career is over. Whilst this is something for all sane Conservatives to devoutly pray for I would not be so confident. She has been pretty chummy with Truss of late.

    Can't she be in the Cabinet from the Lords?
    I mean. She doesn't deserve to be, but she could.
    Nadine Dorries is 65 years old which might also be a factor.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,219

    dixiedean said:

    DavidL said:

    Mad Nad will presumably only accept a peerage if she is accepting that her cabinet career is over. Whilst this is something for all sane Conservatives to devoutly pray for I would not be so confident. She has been pretty chummy with Truss of late.

    Can't she be in the Cabinet from the Lords?
    I mean. She doesn't deserve to be, but she could.
    Nadine Dorries is 65 years old which might also be a factor.
    She looks good for her age.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,871

    China announces fresh military drills around Taiwan

    https://twitter.com/reuterschina/status/1556536151615217665

    This looks really quite ominous, now

    If you are Xi, attacking/blockading Taiwan this autumn - as the West is severely weakened by Ukraine/energy, makes a lot of sense. The blithering Biden is in the White House. The Pentagon is enfeebled by lack of confidence, post Afghanistan. Taiwan is still isolated by Covid

    It might indeed have been coordinated with Putin
  • eekeek Posts: 28,136
    Sandpit said:

    Just got our FTTP, 500Mb download is ridiculous

    You can now download all the porn from the internet in record time!
    Interestingly we are about to enter a scenario where for many people speed issues will be within the house and no longer between the house and the outside world...

    That is going to lead to a lot of customer support issues where the answer is - it's something within your house that we can't easily fix...
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,871
    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    TOPPING said:

    fpt

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Oh go on @Scott_P, educate me.

    Look at it this way.

    How much of the kit you bought in the 90's would still be part of your system today (notwithstanding the voltage issues) ?
    Richer Sounds always did decent kit, and it lasts well. My Marantz amp from there must be 25 years old.

    There is good new music now, despite what grandpa Leon was saying last night while showing his slides. I am a fan of Molchat Doma for example.

    https://youtu.be/s1ATTIQrmIQ
    I’m not just emotionally and artistically correct, I can scientifically prove I’m correct. Music is decreasing in complexity and variety, songs are more formulaic, lyrics are more repetitive and mundane. Music is getting worse

    https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/is-pop-music-evolving-or-is-it-just-getting-louder/


    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/science-proves-pop-music-has-actually-gotten-worse-8173368/

    https://arxiv.org/pdf/1907.04292.pdf

    https://www.mic.com/articles/107896/scientists-finally-prove-why-pop-music-all-sounds-the-same


    https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0115255
    You old git.

    On my playlist:

    Mazzy Star
    Quantic
    Tash Sultana
    DJariium
    Husky Loops
    Paul Hartnoll
    Finley Quaye
    Young Fathers
    Dave Thomas Junior
    Light Asylum
    Nitin Sawhney
    Elbow
    Unkle
    Kerli
    Wankelmut
    Leftfield
    X Ambassadors
    Silver Mt Zion
    FKA Twigs
    Covenant
    Shawn Lee's Ping Pong Orchestra
    The Allergies
    Michel Kiwanuka
    Dennis Lloyd
    Robert Levon Been
    Maribou State
    The Cinematic Orchestra
    Molotov Jukebox

    Something there for everything. You might think you recognise some of it/it's derivative of course you might but then welcome to pop music for the past 70 years.

    And that's to exclude the superstars - eg Kanye, Rihanna, Adele, Lizzo, etc, or, say, Grime.

    You need to get out more, take the Chris de Burgh tape off loop and start shazaming your way to find some new music.
    Wet Leg‘s first two singles were amongst the best of any I’ve heard for 30 or more years.



    OK let’s analysis this. i know Wet Leg, they are OK

    Here’s their first single. Chaise Longue

    https://youtu.be/Zd9jeJk2UHQ

    Pleasantly monotonous. Quirky. But “among the best singles of the last 30 years” is absolutely farcical. For a start, compare it with this song, Yellow Horse by Cowboy Racer

    https://youtu.be/5rdW_0c6zv


    I submit they are almost identical, the deadpan approach, the slightly off key female vocals, the deliberate flatness of affect, the eccentric lyrics. The different is that Yellow Horse is better, funnier, sexier. Written 17 years ago
    Are you f’ing kidding me? The double entendre in the first verse of Chaise Longue alone is simultaneously funnier and sexier than the whole of Yellow Horse. There are acts out there that might disprove my thesis - but Cowboy Racer sure isn’t one of them.
    The bands are so similar - sound, presentation, theme - Cowboy Racer should sue

    And besides, it is you making the outrageous claim: that Wet Leg have produced “two of the best singles of the last 30 years”. It is comically absurd. And what is this amazing double entendre? Buttered muffin? It’s been street slang for decades

    https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=buttered muffin
    That’s later in the song and is a line from Mean Girls, as has been well observed already - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-59331835

    The one in the first verse (that seems to have gone right over your head) is simply funnier and sexier than anything by Cowboy Racer, who in turn should be sued by Flying Lizards if you’re into that kind of thing. And Nirvana should have been sued by Killing Joke for ripping off the riff from “Eighties”. While George Harrison was actually sued for ripping off the Chiffons. Etc etc. Boring.
    Do tell us about this amazing double entendre, Big Doug Seal
    Who says it’s amazing, Little Leon? The issue we have here is that you say I say it’s “amazing” whereas I only say it clears the considerably lower bar of being better than Yellow Horse by cowboy racer. So I can’t answer you I’m afraid. You’ll just have to figure it out yourself.
    You. So what is it?
    No. Read my post carefully. One word at a time.
    You’re too embarrassed to say, aren’t you?

    Fabulously mortifying
    The embarrassment comes from a supposed man of the world being unable to figure out the glaringly obvious. A child could see it FFS. Google the lyrics. Read the first verse. If you can’t figure out the flamingly obvious double entendre in the first verse then I can’t help you. It’s not “amazing” but certainly funnier than anything Cowboy Racer ever put on tape.
    But can’t you help a PB-er out and tell us what it is? The amazing double entendre? Just a couple of lines, explaining it. Thanks. After all, this is “maybe the best single of the last 30 years”. I want to really appreciate it, including the lyrical genius
  • eekeek Posts: 28,136
    edited August 2022

    Just got our FTTP, 500Mb download is ridiculous

    Just think, everything you post on here will arrive a millionth of a second quicker.
    Nope - as all posts are small pieces of text - it will be posted at the exact same speed - differences only will occur if you are uploading significantly large files.

    Where on a 56k modem a significant file was anything over 3,500 characters now it's anything over 20,000,000 characters or so.

    As I said earlier - the reason why I'm moving is not because of any download speed increase - it's the ability to have a decent amount of reserved upload capacity for some real time database connections.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,219
    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    TOPPING said:

    fpt

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Oh go on @Scott_P, educate me.

    Look at it this way.

    How much of the kit you bought in the 90's would still be part of your system today (notwithstandingr the voltage issues) ?
    Richer Sounds always did decent kit, and it lasts well. My Marantz amp from there must be 25 years old.

    There is good new music now, despite what grandpa Leon was saying last night while showing his slides. I am a fan of Molchat Doma for example.

    https://youtu.be/s1ATTIQrmIQ
    I’m not just emotionally and artistically correct, I can scientifically prove I’m correct. Music is decreasing in complexity and variety, songs are more formulaic, lyrics are more repetitive and mundane. Music is getting worse

    https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/is-pop-music-evolving-or-is-it-just-getting-louder/


    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/science-proves-pop-music-has-actually-gotten-worse-8173368/

    https://arxiv.org/pdf/1907.04292.pdf

    https://www.mic.com/articles/107896/scientists-finally-prove-why-pop-music-all-sounds-the-same


    https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0115255
    You old git.

    On my playlist:

    Mazzy Star
    Quantic
    Tash Sultana
    DJariium
    Husky Loops
    Paul Hartnoll
    Finley Quaye
    Young Fathers
    Dave Thomas Junior
    Light Asylum
    Nitin Sawhney
    Elbow
    Unkle
    Kerli
    Wankelmut
    Leftfield
    X Ambassadors
    Silver Mt Zion
    FKA Twigs
    Covenant
    Shawn Lee's Ping Pong Orchestra
    The Allergies
    Michel Kiwanuka
    Dennis Lloyd
    Robert Levon Been
    Maribou State
    The Cinematic Orchestra
    Molotov Jukebox

    Something there for everything. You might think you recognise some of it/it's derivative of course you might but then welcome to pop music for the past 70 years.

    And that's to exclude the superstars - eg Kanye, Rihanna, Adele, Lizzo, etc, or, say, Grime.

    You need to get out more, take the Chris de Burgh tape off loop and start shazaming your way to find some new music.
    Wet Leg‘s first two singles were amongst the best of any I’ve heard for 30 or more years.



    OK let’s analysis this. i know Wet Leg, they are OK

    Here’s their first single. Chaise Longue

    https://youtu.be/Zd9jeJk2UHQ

    Pleasantly monotonous. Quirky. But “among the best singles of the last 30 years” is absolutely farcical. For a start, compare it with this song, Yellow Horse by Cowboy Racer

    https://youtu.be/5rdW_0c6zv


    I submit they are almost identical, the deadpan approach, the slightly off key female vocals, the deliberate flatness of affect, the eccentric lyrics. The different is that Yellow Horse is better, funnier, sexier. Written 17 years ago
    Are you f’ing kidding me? The double entendre in the first verse of Chaise Longue alone is simultaneously funnier and sexier than the whole of Yellow Horse. There are acts out there that might disprove my thesis - but Cowboy Racer sure isn’t one of them.
    The bands are so similar - sound, presentation, theme - Cowboy Racer should sue

    And besides, it is you making the outrageous claim: that Wet Leg have produced “two of the best singles of the last 30 years”. It is comically absurd. And what is this amazing double entendre? Buttered muffin? It’s been street slang for decades

    https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=buttered muffin
    That’s later in the song and is a line from Mean Girls, as has been well observed already - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-59331835

    The one in the first verse (that seems to have gone right over your head) is simply funnier and sexier than anything by Cowboy Racer, who in turn should be sued by Flying Lizards if you’re into that kind of thing. And Nirvana should have been sued by Killing Joke for ripping off the riff from “Eighties”. While George Harrison was actually sued for ripping off the Chiffons. Etc etc. Boring.
    Do tell us about this amazing double entendre, Big Doug Seal
    Who says it’s amazing, Little Leon? The issue we have here is that you say I say it’s “amazing” whereas I only say it clears the considerably lower bar of being better than Yellow Horse by cowboy racer. So I can’t answer you I’m afraid. You’ll just have to figure it out yourself.
    You. So what is it?
    No. Read my post carefully. One word at a time.
    You’re too embarrassed to say, aren’t you?

    Fabulously mortifying
    The embarrassment comes from a supposed man of the world being unable to figure out the glaringly obvious. A child could see it FFS. Google the lyrics. Read the first verse. If you can’t figure out the flamingly obvious double entendre in the first verse then I can’t help you. It’s not “amazing” but certainly funnier than anything Cowboy Racer ever put on tape.
    But can’t you help a PB-er out and tell us what it is? The amazing double entendre? Just a couple of lines, explaining it. Thanks. After all, this is “maybe the best single of the last 30 years”. I want to really appreciate it, including the lyrical genius
    I too must be a bit thick, cos it’s not flamingly obvious to me either.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,621
    edited August 2022
    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    TOPPING said:

    fpt

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Oh go on @Scott_P, educate me.

    Look at it this way.

    How much of the kit you bought in the 90's would still be part of your system today (notwithstanding the voltage issues) ?
    Richer Sounds always did decent kit, and it lasts well. My Marantz amp from there must be 25 years old.

    There is good new music now, despite what grandpa Leon was saying last night while showing his slides. I am a fan of Molchat Doma for example.

    https://youtu.be/s1ATTIQrmIQ
    I’m not just emotionally and artistically correct, I can scientifically prove I’m correct. Music is decreasing in complexity and variety, songs are more formulaic, lyrics are more repetitive and mundane. Music is getting worse

    https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/is-pop-music-evolving-or-is-it-just-getting-louder/


    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/science-proves-pop-music-has-actually-gotten-worse-8173368/

    https://arxiv.org/pdf/1907.04292.pdf

    https://www.mic.com/articles/107896/scientists-finally-prove-why-pop-music-all-sounds-the-same


    https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0115255
    You old git.

    On my playlist:

    Mazzy Star
    Quantic
    Tash Sultana
    DJariium
    Husky Loops
    Paul Hartnoll
    Finley Quaye
    Young Fathers
    Dave Thomas Junior
    Light Asylum
    Nitin Sawhney
    Elbow
    Unkle
    Kerli
    Wankelmut
    Leftfield
    X Ambassadors
    Silver Mt Zion
    FKA Twigs
    Covenant
    Shawn Lee's Ping Pong Orchestra
    The Allergies
    Michel Kiwanuka
    Dennis Lloyd
    Robert Levon Been
    Maribou State
    The Cinematic Orchestra
    Molotov Jukebox

    Something there for everything. You might think you recognise some of it/it's derivative of course you might but then welcome to pop music for the past 70 years.

    And that's to exclude the superstars - eg Kanye, Rihanna, Adele, Lizzo, etc, or, say, Grime.

    You need to get out more, take the Chris de Burgh tape off loop and start shazaming your way to find some new music.
    Wet Leg‘s first two singles were amongst the best of any I’ve heard for 30 or more years.



    OK let’s analysis this. i know Wet Leg, they are OK

    Here’s their first single. Chaise Longue

    https://youtu.be/Zd9jeJk2UHQ

    Pleasantly monotonous. Quirky. But “among the best singles of the last 30 years” is absolutely farcical. For a start, compare it with this song, Yellow Horse by Cowboy Racer


    https://youtu.be/5rdW_0c6zvY


    I submit they are almost identical, the deadpan approach, the slightly off key female vocals, the deliberate flatness of affect, the eccentric lyrics. The different is that Yellow Horse is better, funnier, sexier. Written 17 years ago
    Nothing the Flying Lizards weren't doing in 1979.... In 2 minutes 30.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-P2qL3qkzk

    Indeed, also very similar and even earlier

    This is yet another one of the problems faced by popular musicians. Almost everything - in terms of style, attitude, subversion - has been done, and at the same time almost every chord progression has been explored, every percussive rhythm banged out. Music is not infinite

    Classical music faced the same problem in the early 20th century, and so it went down the rabbit hole of atonality, whence it has never really emerged, or recovered
    I think the rabbit hole happens partially because a lot of the arts is now playing to the wrong audience - itself.

    It always amuses me that Peter Maxwell Davies composed all sorts of avante garde stuff but what the audience actually liked was a simple almost throwaway piece written as a protest (Farewell to Stromness). As for his mate Harrison Birtwistle - always good for filling up the bar.

    As well as atonality, though, there's also been minimalism - which has been less of a rabbit hole and has crossed back over into pop music as various forms of rock and electronic music.

    Where to go next though? Back to Bach...?
    It is a question of vocabulary. If I gave someone Don Quixote in Spanish and they didn't speak/understand Spanish then it would be meaningless to them. Same in the plastic arts. Malevich, or Newman for that matter, would be formidable for someone unaware of the vocabulary. Same also in music.

    As the old joke goes, the words most likely to get someone to turn off the radio are: "And now for the premier of a new piece of work by a young British composer/poet/insert as necessary".
    True, I suppose, but the best art works on more than one level.

    We almost need to kidnap someone from Amazonia or somewhere similar who has never heard any western music and see what they like. The chromatic 12 tone scale is pretty much a mathematical bodge so perhaps it would also sound utterly wrong to anyone who hasn't heard it from birth.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Leon said:

    China announces fresh military drills around Taiwan

    https://twitter.com/reuterschina/status/1556536151615217665

    This looks really quite ominous, now

    If you are Xi, attacking/blockading Taiwan this autumn - as the West is severely weakened by Ukraine/energy, makes a lot of sense. The blithering Biden is in the White House. The Pentagon is enfeebled by lack of confidence, post Afghanistan. Taiwan is still isolated by Covid

    It might indeed have been coordinated with Putin
    If anyone out there is still daft enough to be holding Chinese equities, get out now.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677

    dixiedean said:

    DavidL said:

    Mad Nad will presumably only accept a peerage if she is accepting that her cabinet career is over. Whilst this is something for all sane Conservatives to devoutly pray for I would not be so confident. She has been pretty chummy with Truss of late.

    Can't she be in the Cabinet from the Lords?
    I mean. She doesn't deserve to be, but she could.
    Nadine Dorries is 65 years old which might also be a factor.
    She looks good for her age.
    JRM is six months younger than Nicky Wire out the Manics.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,809
    edited August 2022

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    TOPPING said:

    fpt

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Oh go on @Scott_P, educate me.

    Look at it this way.

    How much of the kit you bought in the 90's would still be part of your system today (notwithstanding the voltage issues) ?
    Richer Sounds always did decent kit, and it lasts well. My Marantz amp from there must be 25 years old.

    There is good new music now, despite what grandpa Leon was saying last night while showing his slides. I am a fan of Molchat Doma for example.

    https://youtu.be/s1ATTIQrmIQ
    I’m not just emotionally and artistically correct, I can scientifically prove I’m correct. Music is decreasing in complexity and variety, songs are more formulaic, lyrics are more repetitive and mundane. Music is getting worse

    https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/is-pop-music-evolving-or-is-it-just-getting-louder/


    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/science-proves-pop-music-has-actually-gotten-worse-8173368/

    https://arxiv.org/pdf/1907.04292.pdf

    https://www.mic.com/articles/107896/scientists-finally-prove-why-pop-music-all-sounds-the-same


    https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0115255
    You old git.

    On my playlist:

    Mazzy Star
    Quantic
    Tash Sultana
    DJariium
    Husky Loops
    Paul Hartnoll
    Finley Quaye
    Young Fathers
    Dave Thomas Junior
    Light Asylum
    Nitin Sawhney
    Elbow
    Unkle
    Kerli
    Wankelmut
    Leftfield
    X Ambassadors
    Silver Mt Zion
    FKA Twigs
    Covenant
    Shawn Lee's Ping Pong Orchestra
    The Allergies
    Michel Kiwanuka
    Dennis Lloyd
    Robert Levon Been
    Maribou State
    The Cinematic Orchestra
    Molotov Jukebox

    Something there for everything. You might think you recognise some of it/it's derivative of course you might but then welcome to pop music for the past 70 years.

    And that's to exclude the superstars - eg Kanye, Rihanna, Adele, Lizzo, etc, or, say, Grime.

    You need to get out more, take the Chris de Burgh tape off loop and start shazaming your way to find some new music.
    Wet Leg‘s first two singles were amongst the best of any I’ve heard for 30 or more years.



    OK let’s analysis this. i know Wet Leg, they are OK

    Here’s their first single. Chaise Longue

    https://youtu.be/Zd9jeJk2UHQ

    Pleasantly monotonous. Quirky. But “among the best singles of the last 30 years” is absolutely farcical. For a start, compare it with this song, Yellow Horse by Cowboy Racer


    https://youtu.be/5rdW_0c6zvY


    I submit they are almost identical, the deadpan approach, the slightly off key female vocals, the deliberate flatness of affect, the eccentric lyrics. The different is that Yellow Horse is better, funnier, sexier. Written 17 years ago
    Nothing the Flying Lizards weren't doing in 1979.... In 2 minutes 30.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-P2qL3qkzk

    Indeed, also very similar and even earlier

    This is yet another one of the problems faced by popular musicians. Almost everything - in terms of style, attitude, subversion - has been done, and at the same time almost every chord progression has been explored, every percussive rhythm banged out. Music is not infinite

    Classical music faced the same problem in the early 20th century, and so it went down the rabbit hole of atonality, whence it has never really emerged, or recovered
    I think the rabbit hole happens partially because a lot of the arts is now playing to the wrong audience - itself.

    It always amuses me that Peter Maxwell Davies composed all sorts of avante garde stuff but what the audience actually liked was a simple almost throwaway piece written as a protest (Farewell to Stromness). As for his mate Harrison Birtwistle - always good for filling up the bar.

    As well as atonality, though, there's also been minimalism - which has been less of a rabbit hole and has crossed back over into pop music as various forms of rock and electronic music.

    Where to go next though? Back to Bach...?
    It is a question of vocabulary. If I gave someone Don Quixote in Spanish and they didn't speak/understand Spanish then it would be meaningless to them. Same in the plastic arts. Malevich, or Newman for that matter, would be formidable for someone unaware of the vocabulary. Same also in music.

    As the old joke goes, the words most likely to get someone to turn off the radio are: "And now for the premier of a new piece of work by a young British composer/poet/insert as necessary".
    True, I suppose, but the best art works on more than one level.

    We almost need to kidnap someone from Amazonia or somewhere who has never heard any western music and see what they like. The chromatic 12 tone scale is pretty much a mathematical bodge so perhaps it would also sound utterly wrong to anyone who hasn't heard it from birth.
    A tutor once told the story (apocryphal for sure but it provoked much thought) about a missionary who was going to visit a tribe which had never before seen an outsider, let alone a white outsider. In order to prepare the visit he dropped from a biplane photographs of himself together with food, valuables, etc so that they would associate him and his face with good things.

    Shortly after he went to see them and they promptly killed him.

    They hadn't been able/taught to interpret the photograph. They didn't recognise that it was just a two-dimensional representation of the missionary.
  • Just got our FTTP, 500Mb download is ridiculous

    Just think, everything you post on here will arrive a millionth of a second quicker.
    Just think, I'll be able to skip over your posts a millionth of a second quicker.
  • Music isn't worse than the past, that's just what old people have always said. Saying that is up there with looking at a young woman out at night and thinking "she must be cold" for showing your age.

    Music is a lot more diverse nowadays though. Just as we don't all watch the BBC for the same TV shows anymore, we don't all listen to it for the same music either. There are a lot of artists that are bringing out their own music now from platforms like TikTok etc that if you don't engage with that could pass you by entirely.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,871
    This sounds eerily like Ukraine in Feb of this year. Let’s hope not


    “Taiwan is preparing air-raid shelters in underground spaces such as basement car parks, the subway system and subterranean shopping centres as fears of a Chinese attack increase. The capital, Taipei, has more than 4,600 such shelters that can accommodate 12 million people, more than four times its population. Reporting by Yimou Lee and Fabian Hamacher/Reuters
    Ann Wang / Reuters”

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/gallery/2022/aug/08/taiwan-prepares-for-life-underground-amid-china-threat-in-pictures
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,269

    Cyclefree said:

    Might I gently intervene in the music debate and simply point out that nothing is as good as Bach.

    There. Glad to have cleared that up.

    You're welcome.

    (Though I will allow 3 small exceptions: the Dies Irae in Mozart's Requiem, the Libera Me ending of Verdi's Requiem and Elgar's Salut d'Amour played here by Aldo Ciccolini - https://youtu.be/pkcHjmXmEg0).

    Interesting you should mention Mozart's Requiem. I first listened to the piece while driving alone to a funeral, and I'm convinced that this means it still has an extra emotional charge for me when I listen to it again.

    Much as I have enjoyed listening to a lot of Bach music, doing so in a dusty music hall with an audience mostly old enough to nearly be closer to contemporaries of Bach then myself does not really create the same emotional impression.

    For similar reasons the Bryan Adams album Reckless is one that I have a strong emotional bond with that I'm aware will be inexplicable to anyone else considering it solely on its objective musical merits.
    I generally have not heard Bach in dusty music halls but I have learnt to play some of it and it is some of the most satisfying music to listen to and play. There is an intensely mathematical and restrained quality about it and, yet, at the same time, tremendous emotion within those limits. That combination is what makes it so wonderful I think. Getting it right is so hard. Hearing it played well is such an experience.

    I would say that Allegri's Miserere and Pergolesi's Stabat Mater have the same quality.

    The hymn "This is my body" is the one which has me in bits. It was being sung at an Easter service a few months after my mother died and at the words

    "Do Not Forget Me; Then You Will See
    I Am Still With You, And You Will Know
    You’re Very Close To Me."

    I simply broke down. It is about the love a parent has for a child and how that - even as a memory - endures even as they leave them, as we all will.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,212
    Leon said:

    China announces fresh military drills around Taiwan

    https://twitter.com/reuterschina/status/1556536151615217665

    This looks really quite ominous, now

    If you are Xi, attacking/blockading Taiwan this autumn - as the West is severely weakened by Ukraine/energy, makes a lot of sense. The blithering Biden is in the White House. The Pentagon is enfeebled by lack of confidence, post Afghanistan. Taiwan is still isolated by Covid

    It might indeed have been coordinated with Putin
    Very generous of Putin to destroy his army, in order to make life easier for China.

    A sensible Russian leader would recognise the vulnerability of Eastern Siberia to Chinese revanchism.

    IMHO, an invasion of Taiwan would be a fiasco for China, although the drawback of dictatorships is that military leaders aren't allowed to tell the dictator he's making a bad mistake.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,640
    Opinium

    LAB 37
    CON 34

    Best PM Truss leads SKS

    I am at a loss can any SKS fans please explain
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,269
    eek said:

    Just got our FTTP, 500Mb download is ridiculous

    Just think, everything you post on here will arrive a millionth of a second quicker.
    Nope - as all posts are small pieces of text - it will be posted at the exact same speed - differences only will occur if you are uploading significantly large files.

    Where on a 56k modem a significant file was anything over 3,500 characters now it's anything over 20,000,000 characters or so.

    As I said earlier - the reason why I'm moving is not because of any download speed increase - it's the ability to have a decent amount of reserved upload capacity for some real time database connections.
    If China invades Taiwan and all the chips underpinning modern life disappear, will any of this matter any more?
  • jonny83jonny83 Posts: 1,270
    Leon said:

    China announces fresh military drills around Taiwan

    https://twitter.com/reuterschina/status/1556536151615217665

    This looks really quite ominous, now

    If you are Xi, attacking/blockading Taiwan this autumn - as the West is severely weakened by Ukraine/energy, makes a lot of sense. The blithering Biden is in the White House. The Pentagon is enfeebled by lack of confidence, post Afghanistan. Taiwan is still isolated by Covid

    It might indeed have been coordinated with Putin
    The thing is the West isn't really weakened. I mean sure the desire to do the bare minimum in Ukraine and pulling out of places like Afghanistan after so many years can be seen as a weakness to some but the West still has that power in reserve.

    The US is still by far the most powerful military nation on Earth, and they will get involved if China attacks Taiwan.
  • Cyclefree said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Rishi Sunak not pulling any punches in op-ed for The Sun.

    He argues Liz Truss tax plans are "a big bung to large businesses and the well-off" but "leave those who most need help out in the cold"

    Sunak accusing Truss of "starry-eyed boosterism"

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/19445238/liz-truss-plan-brits-bills/

    You see, this yanks my chain.

    My wife and I are paying nearly £2,000 pa. more tax since April due to the NI rise, and now any reversal of this is considered a "hand-out to the well-off".

    Um, no. It's reversing a hand-grab from those on good professional salaries working long hours. It's why I was such an opponent of the levy - it will go up from 1.25% to 3% within a few years of Labour taking office.

    Followed to its natural conclusion, this argument could be used to defend any NI/income tax increase on higher earners to any level, and against reversal.
    Just to give another view, my children who also work hard (but earn I am sure a lot less than you) are now paying less NI because of the other changes which Sunak brought in at the same time. The amount by which they benefit is not huge but it helps, particularly given that they have similar costs eg utilities, have to pay usurious rates on their student loans and are saving to be able to afford - eventually - a mortgage.

    Would Truss do anything for people like my children? I have not heard her say anything. Perhaps I have missed this.



    Your children are thanks to the changes Sunak brought in on a higher marginal tax rate due to those NI changes. They're paying NI still as the NI starting threshold, even after the changes, is well below even the minimum wage at full time. They're paying NI and they'll continue to pay it through their careers and continue to pay more as they progress through their careers

    Under Truss's proposals your children would pay less NI due to the tax rate hike on them being reversed.

    Under Rishi's proposals your children would be the ones paying tax while those who are retired get tax breaks.

    It seems some people are OK with enjoying all the tax benefits themselves and screwing over their children, if that's not you (and I don't think it is), you should prefer Truss over Rishi IMHO.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,871
    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    China announces fresh military drills around Taiwan

    https://twitter.com/reuterschina/status/1556536151615217665

    This looks really quite ominous, now

    If you are Xi, attacking/blockading Taiwan this autumn - as the West is severely weakened by Ukraine/energy, makes a lot of sense. The blithering Biden is in the White House. The Pentagon is enfeebled by lack of confidence, post Afghanistan. Taiwan is still isolated by Covid

    It might indeed have been coordinated with Putin
    Very generous of Putin to destroy his army, in order to make life easier for China.

    A sensible Russian leader would recognise the vulnerability of Eastern Siberia to Chinese revanchism.

    IMHO, an invasion of Taiwan would be a fiasco for China, although the drawback of dictatorships is that military leaders aren't allowed to tell the dictator he's making a bad mistake.
    Putin is doing OK in Ukraine, despite enormous losses. All Xi will care about is that Putin’s invasion has got the West rattled, and facing recession, and therefore badly weakened. Was it all coordinated? Planned? Russia attacks in spring, China moves in autumn? Perhaps

    Also, Xi does not have to invade Taiwan, he can blockade it

    ‘Seoul, South Korea (CNN)China's military exercises show Beijing doesn't need to invade Taiwan to control it -- rather it can strangle the self-ruled island, cutting it off from the outside world, Chinese and American analysts say.’

    https://www.cnn.com/2022/08/08/asia/china-taiwan-military-exercises-what-we-learned-intl-hnk-ml/index.html
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,424
    edited August 2022
    eek said:

    Sandpit said:

    Just got our FTTP, 500Mb download is ridiculous

    You can now download all the porn from the internet in record time!
    Interestingly we are about to enter a scenario where for many people speed issues will be within the house and no longer between the house and the outside world...

    That is going to lead to a lot of customer support issues where the answer is - it's something within your house that we can't easily fix...
    I see that from the other side, installing wifi systems in large houses. People who have bought gigabit internet, but the wifi system only supports 200mbps or slower. I generally use business-class wifi hardware, rather than the cutting-edge consumer stuff. Try explaining that a Netflix stream uses 20mpbs at best, and see the look of bewilderment! Or it’s an older house, with Cat5e infrastructure so you’re only getting 100Mbps internally. People don’t understand why they don’t get gigabit wifi on their phone, when they have gigabit fibre into their house.
  • DynamoDynamo Posts: 651
    edited August 2022
    Leon said:

    This sounds eerily like Ukraine in Feb of this year. Let’s hope not


    “Taiwan is preparing air-raid shelters in underground spaces such as basement car parks, the subway system and subterranean shopping centres as fears of a Chinese attack increase. The capital, Taipei, has more than 4,600 such shelters that can accommodate 12 million people, more than four times its population. Reporting by Yimou Lee and Fabian Hamacher/Reuters
    Ann Wang / Reuters”

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/gallery/2022/aug/08/taiwan-prepares-for-life-underground-amid-china-threat-in-pictures

    Nice contract if you have the "face" to get it - building shelters for four times the city's population. What are they planning - a reprise of Mount Masada?
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Opinium

    LAB 37
    CON 34

    Best PM Truss leads SKS

    I am at a loss can any SKS fans please explain

    Cos he is off on his hols cogitating about Nandy while Truss is in the public eye doing hustings. When he is back on our screens, 15 point increase nailed on.

    Probably.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    edited August 2022

    Opinium

    LAB 37
    CON 34

    Best PM Truss leads SKS

    I am at a loss can any SKS fans please explain

    Starmer is a complete dud. Appallingly poor.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,871
    jonny83 said:

    Leon said:

    China announces fresh military drills around Taiwan

    https://twitter.com/reuterschina/status/1556536151615217665

    This looks really quite ominous, now

    If you are Xi, attacking/blockading Taiwan this autumn - as the West is severely weakened by Ukraine/energy, makes a lot of sense. The blithering Biden is in the White House. The Pentagon is enfeebled by lack of confidence, post Afghanistan. Taiwan is still isolated by Covid

    It might indeed have been coordinated with Putin
    The thing is the West isn't really weakened. I mean sure the desire to do the bare minimum in Ukraine and pulling out of places like Afghanistan after so many years can be seen as a weakness to some but the West still has that power in reserve.

    The US is still by far the most powerful military nation on Earth, and they will get involved if China attacks Taiwan.
    The US is militarily more powerful than China, but America has lost its last four wars, and both sides can wipe each other out with nukes. Plus the Chinese navy is now bigger than the US navy, China has much more manpower, and Taiwan is clearly much easier for China to encircle than for distant America to defend

    And yes the West is weakened. We were hegemonic; we are not now. The centre of the global economy and global trade is Asia
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,781
    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    China announces fresh military drills around Taiwan

    https://twitter.com/reuterschina/status/1556536151615217665

    This looks really quite ominous, now

    If you are Xi, attacking/blockading Taiwan this autumn - as the West is severely weakened by Ukraine/energy, makes a lot of sense. The blithering Biden is in the White House. The Pentagon is enfeebled by lack of confidence, post Afghanistan. Taiwan is still isolated by Covid

    It might indeed have been coordinated with Putin
    A sensible Russian leader would recognise the vulnerability of Eastern Siberia to Chinese revanchism.

    If we had any diplomatic sense we would have been pointing this out to Putin again and again. I fear that we didn't.
  • Leon said:

    This sounds eerily like Ukraine in Feb of this year. Let’s hope not


    “Taiwan is preparing air-raid shelters in underground spaces such as basement car parks, the subway system and subterranean shopping centres as fears of a Chinese attack increase. The capital, Taipei, has more than 4,600 such shelters that can accommodate 12 million people, more than four times its population. Reporting by Yimou Lee and Fabian Hamacher/Reuters
    Ann Wang / Reuters”

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/gallery/2022/aug/08/taiwan-prepares-for-life-underground-amid-china-threat-in-pictures

    They do this whenever China start to sabre rattle, just in case China is stupid enough to attempt an invasion. It's good future planning and is also good as a drill if as most likely China soon says the military exercise was a great success and go home.

    China know their ability to invade Taiwan is at best very poor, in reality they could maybe hope in taking the islands near the Chinese coast. Mind you were live in times of dictators massively over estimating the ability of their militaries.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,269

    Cyclefree said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Rishi Sunak not pulling any punches in op-ed for The Sun.

    He argues Liz Truss tax plans are "a big bung to large businesses and the well-off" but "leave those who most need help out in the cold"

    Sunak accusing Truss of "starry-eyed boosterism"

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/19445238/liz-truss-plan-brits-bills/

    You see, this yanks my chain.

    My wife and I are paying nearly £2,000 pa. more tax since April due to the NI rise, and now any reversal of this is considered a "hand-out to the well-off".

    Um, no. It's reversing a hand-grab from those on good professional salaries working long hours. It's why I was such an opponent of the levy - it will go up from 1.25% to 3% within a few years of Labour taking office.

    Followed to its natural conclusion, this argument could be used to defend any NI/income tax increase on higher earners to any level, and against reversal.
    Just to give another view, my children who also work hard (but earn I am sure a lot less than you) are now paying less NI because of the other changes which Sunak brought in at the same time. The amount by which they benefit is not huge but it helps, particularly given that they have similar costs eg utilities, have to pay usurious rates on their student loans and are saving to be able to afford - eventually - a mortgage.

    Would Truss do anything for people like my children? I have not heard her say anything. Perhaps I have missed this.



    Your children are thanks to the changes Sunak brought in on a higher marginal tax rate due to those NI changes. They're paying NI still as the NI starting threshold, even after the changes, is well below even the minimum wage at full time. They're paying NI and they'll continue to pay it through their careers and continue to pay more as they progress through their careers

    Under Truss's proposals your children would pay less NI due to the tax rate hike on them being reversed.

    Under Rishi's proposals your children would be the ones paying tax while those who are retired get tax breaks.

    It seems some people are OK with enjoying all the tax benefits themselves and screwing over their children, if that's not you (and I don't think it is), you should prefer Truss over Rishi IMHO.
    I understand the issue about NI not being paid by those working past retirement age, which I don't agree with.

    My point was that my children are a little bit better off as a result of the Sunak changes which @Casino_Royale was complaining about. Not to make it about him, but it seems fairer to me that people like him - earning well - should be paying more than people like my children - who are not earning so much. That was my point.

    I find - to the extent that I understand them - the proposals being made during the leadership campaign totally incoherent and expect most of them to be broken.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,518
    Leon said:

    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    China announces fresh military drills around Taiwan

    https://twitter.com/reuterschina/status/1556536151615217665

    This looks really quite ominous, now

    If you are Xi, attacking/blockading Taiwan this autumn - as the West is severely weakened by Ukraine/energy, makes a lot of sense. The blithering Biden is in the White House. The Pentagon is enfeebled by lack of confidence, post Afghanistan. Taiwan is still isolated by Covid

    It might indeed have been coordinated with Putin
    Very generous of Putin to destroy his army, in order to make life easier for China.

    A sensible Russian leader would recognise the vulnerability of Eastern Siberia to Chinese revanchism.

    IMHO, an invasion of Taiwan would be a fiasco for China, although the drawback of dictatorships is that military leaders aren't allowed to tell the dictator he's making a bad mistake.
    Putin is doing OK in Ukraine, despite enormous losses. All Xi will care about is that Putin’s invasion has got the West rattled, and facing recession, and therefore badly weakened. Was it all coordinated? Planned? Russia attacks in spring, China moves in autumn? Perhaps

    Also, Xi does not have to invade Taiwan, he can blockade it

    ‘Seoul, South Korea (CNN)China's military exercises show Beijing doesn't need to invade Taiwan to control it -- rather it can strangle the self-ruled island, cutting it off from the outside world, Chinese and American analysts say.’

    https://www.cnn.com/2022/08/08/asia/china-taiwan-military-exercises-what-we-learned-intl-hnk-ml/index.html
    Putin is not doing ok in Ukraine. It is a military disaster and likely to get worse in next couple of months before winter shut down.

  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,424
    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    China announces fresh military drills around Taiwan

    https://twitter.com/reuterschina/status/1556536151615217665

    This looks really quite ominous, now

    If you are Xi, attacking/blockading Taiwan this autumn - as the West is severely weakened by Ukraine/energy, makes a lot of sense. The blithering Biden is in the White House. The Pentagon is enfeebled by lack of confidence, post Afghanistan. Taiwan is still isolated by Covid

    It might indeed have been coordinated with Putin
    Very generous of Putin to destroy his army, in order to make life easier for China.

    A sensible Russian leader would recognise the vulnerability of Eastern Siberia to Chinese revanchism.

    IMHO, an invasion of Taiwan would be a fiasco for China, although the drawback of dictatorships is that military leaders aren't allowed to tell the dictator he's making a bad mistake.
    A sensible China, might also like to see what happens if they start massing troops on their border with Russia. If the Russians have to devote resources to looking East, that leaves them fewer resources to fight in Ukraine.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,871

    Leon said:

    This sounds eerily like Ukraine in Feb of this year. Let’s hope not


    “Taiwan is preparing air-raid shelters in underground spaces such as basement car parks, the subway system and subterranean shopping centres as fears of a Chinese attack increase. The capital, Taipei, has more than 4,600 such shelters that can accommodate 12 million people, more than four times its population. Reporting by Yimou Lee and Fabian Hamacher/Reuters
    Ann Wang / Reuters”

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/gallery/2022/aug/08/taiwan-prepares-for-life-underground-amid-china-threat-in-pictures

    They do this whenever China start to sabre rattle, just in case China is stupid enough to attempt an invasion. It's good future planning and is also good as a drill if as most likely China soon says the military exercise was a great success and go home.

    China know their ability to invade Taiwan is at best very poor, in reality they could maybe hope in taking the islands near the Chinese coast. Mind you were live in times of dictators massively over estimating the ability of their militaries.
    They will blockade, not attack

    China can cut Taiwan off from the rest of the world, then present a fait accompli. No more chips with everything, unless Taipei accepts Beijing rule. I reckon the West would fold rather than go to nuclear war over Taiwan. And then, without the west, Taiwan would reluctantly surrender. Xi gets his prize, China is unified, not a shot is fired, as with Hong Kong
  • https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-62435630

    During the incident, the girl was taken out of an exam to the school's medical room and strip-searched by two female Met police officers, who were looking for cannabis, while teachers remained outside.
    No other adult was present, her parents were not contacted, and no drugs were found.

    Awful but also what a complete waste of time
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,212
    edited August 2022
    Leon said:

    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    China announces fresh military drills around Taiwan

    https://twitter.com/reuterschina/status/1556536151615217665

    This looks really quite ominous, now

    If you are Xi, attacking/blockading Taiwan this autumn - as the West is severely weakened by Ukraine/energy, makes a lot of sense. The blithering Biden is in the White House. The Pentagon is enfeebled by lack of confidence, post Afghanistan. Taiwan is still isolated by Covid

    It might indeed have been coordinated with Putin
    Very generous of Putin to destroy his army, in order to make life easier for China.

    A sensible Russian leader would recognise the vulnerability of Eastern Siberia to Chinese revanchism.

    IMHO, an invasion of Taiwan would be a fiasco for China, although the drawback of dictatorships is that military leaders aren't allowed to tell the dictator he's making a bad mistake.
    Putin is doing OK in Ukraine, despite enormous losses. All Xi will care about is that Putin’s invasion has got the West rattled, and facing recession, and therefore badly weakened. Was it all coordinated? Planned? Russia attacks in spring, China moves in autumn? Perhaps

    Also, Xi does not have to invade Taiwan, he can blockade it

    ‘Seoul, South Korea (CNN)China's military exercises show Beijing doesn't need to invade Taiwan to control it -- rather it can strangle the self-ruled island, cutting it off from the outside world, Chinese and American analysts say.’

    https://www.cnn.com/2022/08/08/asia/china-taiwan-military-exercises-what-we-learned-intl-hnk-ml/index.html
    Putin has destroyed forever, the notion that Russia is the second strongest military power in the world.

    An attack on Taiwan would certainly do the West a lot of harm. It would do China more harm, however. The Russian and Chinese leaderships doubtless believe that their opponents are so soft and decadent that they'll collapse.

    Dictators tend to believe in the "fremen mirage". It's the belief that people ruled by dictators are tougher, more manly and martial, than the inhabitants of soft democracies. Actual military history does not bear that out. They mistake vast parades of thousands goose-stepping in perfect unison with military effectiveness/
  • Opinium

    LAB 37
    CON 34

    Best PM Truss leads SKS

    I am at a loss can any SKS fans please explain

    No Tory poll leads for EIGHT MONTHS and TWO DAYS.

    @bigjohnowls please explain!
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,871

    Leon said:

    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    China announces fresh military drills around Taiwan

    https://twitter.com/reuterschina/status/1556536151615217665

    This looks really quite ominous, now

    If you are Xi, attacking/blockading Taiwan this autumn - as the West is severely weakened by Ukraine/energy, makes a lot of sense. The blithering Biden is in the White House. The Pentagon is enfeebled by lack of confidence, post Afghanistan. Taiwan is still isolated by Covid

    It might indeed have been coordinated with Putin
    Very generous of Putin to destroy his army, in order to make life easier for China.

    A sensible Russian leader would recognise the vulnerability of Eastern Siberia to Chinese revanchism.

    IMHO, an invasion of Taiwan would be a fiasco for China, although the drawback of dictatorships is that military leaders aren't allowed to tell the dictator he's making a bad mistake.
    Putin is doing OK in Ukraine, despite enormous losses. All Xi will care about is that Putin’s invasion has got the West rattled, and facing recession, and therefore badly weakened. Was it all coordinated? Planned? Russia attacks in spring, China moves in autumn? Perhaps

    Also, Xi does not have to invade Taiwan, he can blockade it

    ‘Seoul, South Korea (CNN)China's military exercises show Beijing doesn't need to invade Taiwan to control it -- rather it can strangle the self-ruled island, cutting it off from the outside world, Chinese and American analysts say.’

    https://www.cnn.com/2022/08/08/asia/china-taiwan-military-exercises-what-we-learned-intl-hnk-ml/index.html
    Putin is not doing ok in Ukraine. It is a military disaster and likely to get worse in next couple of months before winter shut down.

    What happened to this much-vaunted Kherson counter-attack? By the Ukes?

    I would love to believe Russia is on the verge of collapse but I don’t buy it, because I can’t see it. What I see is a stalemate that leaves Russia in possession of a third of Ukraine

    It’s neither victory nor defeat
  • Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Rishi Sunak not pulling any punches in op-ed for The Sun.

    He argues Liz Truss tax plans are "a big bung to large businesses and the well-off" but "leave those who most need help out in the cold"

    Sunak accusing Truss of "starry-eyed boosterism"

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/19445238/liz-truss-plan-brits-bills/

    You see, this yanks my chain.

    My wife and I are paying nearly £2,000 pa. more tax since April due to the NI rise, and now any reversal of this is considered a "hand-out to the well-off".

    Um, no. It's reversing a hand-grab from those on good professional salaries working long hours. It's why I was such an opponent of the levy - it will go up from 1.25% to 3% within a few years of Labour taking office.

    Followed to its natural conclusion, this argument could be used to defend any NI/income tax increase on higher earners to any level, and against reversal.
    Just to give another view, my children who also work hard (but earn I am sure a lot less than you) are now paying less NI because of the other changes which Sunak brought in at the same time. The amount by which they benefit is not huge but it helps, particularly given that they have similar costs eg utilities, have to pay usurious rates on their student loans and are saving to be able to afford - eventually - a mortgage.

    Would Truss do anything for people like my children? I have not heard her say anything. Perhaps I have missed this.



    Your children are thanks to the changes Sunak brought in on a higher marginal tax rate due to those NI changes. They're paying NI still as the NI starting threshold, even after the changes, is well below even the minimum wage at full time. They're paying NI and they'll continue to pay it through their careers and continue to pay more as they progress through their careers

    Under Truss's proposals your children would pay less NI due to the tax rate hike on them being reversed.

    Under Rishi's proposals your children would be the ones paying tax while those who are retired get tax breaks.

    It seems some people are OK with enjoying all the tax benefits themselves and screwing over their children, if that's not you (and I don't think it is), you should prefer Truss over Rishi IMHO.
    I understand the issue about NI not being paid by those working past retirement age, which I don't agree with.

    My point was that my children are a little bit better off as a result of the Sunak changes which @Casino_Royale was complaining about. Not to make it about him, but it seems fairer to me that people like him - earning well - should be paying more than people like my children - who are not earning so much. That was my point.

    I find - to the extent that I understand them - the proposals being made during the leadership campaign totally incoherent and expect most of them to be broken.
    The changes that Sunak made were from an intergenerational fairness point of view putting lipstick on a pig.

    Yes the change to the starting thresholds will have helped low earners, but they're still paying more than equivalent earners who are getting their income not via working and paying PAYE NI like they do.

    And if this disgraceful NI hike is allowed to stand, then inevitably this tax will be raised again and again putting even more burdens on your children while allowing those getting their income not via NI to evade paying for the NHS. Especially as Sunak plans to use the funds from the NI tax hike (paid by your children) not to fund the NHS or Care as claimed but instead to cut Income Tax (paid by those not paying NI).
  • We are at the point now where useless Keir Starmer is useless because he's not further ahead, not a bad place for any leader to be three years after the worst loss since 1935 when people said Labour should be extinct
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,212
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    This sounds eerily like Ukraine in Feb of this year. Let’s hope not


    “Taiwan is preparing air-raid shelters in underground spaces such as basement car parks, the subway system and subterranean shopping centres as fears of a Chinese attack increase. The capital, Taipei, has more than 4,600 such shelters that can accommodate 12 million people, more than four times its population. Reporting by Yimou Lee and Fabian Hamacher/Reuters
    Ann Wang / Reuters”

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/gallery/2022/aug/08/taiwan-prepares-for-life-underground-amid-china-threat-in-pictures

    They do this whenever China start to sabre rattle, just in case China is stupid enough to attempt an invasion. It's good future planning and is also good as a drill if as most likely China soon says the military exercise was a great success and go home.

    China know their ability to invade Taiwan is at best very poor, in reality they could maybe hope in taking the islands near the Chinese coast. Mind you were live in times of dictators massively over estimating the ability of their militaries.
    They will blockade, not attack

    China can cut Taiwan off from the rest of the world, then present a fait accompli. No more chips with everything, unless Taipei accepts Beijing rule. I reckon the West would fold rather than go to nuclear war over Taiwan. And then, without the west, Taiwan would reluctantly surrender. Xi gets his prize, China is unified, not a shot is fired, as with Hong Kong
    Taiwan has sophisticated naval and air defences. It can destroy Chinese ships. It's also got a pair of very powerful US navies in the vicinity.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,871
    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    China announces fresh military drills around Taiwan

    https://twitter.com/reuterschina/status/1556536151615217665

    This looks really quite ominous, now

    If you are Xi, attacking/blockading Taiwan this autumn - as the West is severely weakened by Ukraine/energy, makes a lot of sense. The blithering Biden is in the White House. The Pentagon is enfeebled by lack of confidence, post Afghanistan. Taiwan is still isolated by Covid

    It might indeed have been coordinated with Putin
    Very generous of Putin to destroy his army, in order to make life easier for China.

    A sensible Russian leader would recognise the vulnerability of Eastern Siberia to Chinese revanchism.

    IMHO, an invasion of Taiwan would be a fiasco for China, although the drawback of dictatorships is that military leaders aren't allowed to tell the dictator he's making a bad mistake.
    Putin is doing OK in Ukraine, despite enormous losses. All Xi will care about is that Putin’s invasion has got the West rattled, and facing recession, and therefore badly weakened. Was it all coordinated? Planned? Russia attacks in spring, China moves in autumn? Perhaps

    Also, Xi does not have to invade Taiwan, he can blockade it

    ‘Seoul, South Korea (CNN)China's military exercises show Beijing doesn't need to invade Taiwan to control it -- rather it can strangle the self-ruled island, cutting it off from the outside world, Chinese and American analysts say.’

    https://www.cnn.com/2022/08/08/asia/china-taiwan-military-exercises-what-we-learned-intl-hnk-ml/index.html
    Putin has destroyed forever, the notion that Russia is the second strongest military power in the world.

    An attack on Taiwan would certainly do the West a lot of harm. It would do China more harm, however. The Russian and Chinese leaderships doubtless believe that their opponents are so soft and decadent that they'll collapse.

    Dictators tend to believe in the "fremen mirage". It's the belief that people ruled by dictators are tougher, more many and martial, than the inhabitants of soft democracies. Actual military history does not bear that out. They mistake vast parades of thousands goose-stepping in perfect unison with military effectiveness/
    Read that CNN article quoting American analysts. China won’t invade it will blockade. It now has enough ships in place it can basically do that already
  • We are at the point now where useless Keir Starmer is useless because he's not further ahead, not a bad place for any leader to be three years after the worst loss since 1935 when people said Labour should be extinct

    Who said Labour should be extinct? I can't remember anyone saying that, especially when the Lib Dems are extinct.

    Under our electoral system there will always be a party of the left, and a party of the right.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,034
    edited August 2022
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    China announces fresh military drills around Taiwan

    https://twitter.com/reuterschina/status/1556536151615217665

    This looks really quite ominous, now

    If you are Xi, attacking/blockading Taiwan this autumn - as the West is severely weakened by Ukraine/energy, makes a lot of sense. The blithering Biden is in the White House. The Pentagon is enfeebled by lack of confidence, post Afghanistan. Taiwan is still isolated by Covid

    It might indeed have been coordinated with Putin
    Very generous of Putin to destroy his army, in order to make life easier for China.

    A sensible Russian leader would recognise the vulnerability of Eastern Siberia to Chinese revanchism.

    IMHO, an invasion of Taiwan would be a fiasco for China, although the drawback of dictatorships is that military leaders aren't allowed to tell the dictator he's making a bad mistake.
    Putin is doing OK in Ukraine, despite enormous losses. All Xi will care about is that Putin’s invasion has got the West rattled, and facing recession, and therefore badly weakened. Was it all coordinated? Planned? Russia attacks in spring, China moves in autumn? Perhaps

    Also, Xi does not have to invade Taiwan, he can blockade it

    ‘Seoul, South Korea (CNN)China's military exercises show Beijing doesn't need to invade Taiwan to control it -- rather it can strangle the self-ruled island, cutting it off from the outside world, Chinese and American analysts say.’

    https://www.cnn.com/2022/08/08/asia/china-taiwan-military-exercises-what-we-learned-intl-hnk-ml/index.html
    Putin is not doing ok in Ukraine. It is a military disaster and likely to get worse in next couple of months before winter shut down.

    What happened to this much-vaunted Kherson counter-attack? By the Ukes?

    I would love to believe Russia is on the verge of collapse but I don’t buy it, because I can’t see it. What I see is a stalemate that leaves Russia in possession of a third of Ukraine

    It’s neither victory nor defeat
    The war has entered a phase so grinding that movement in either direction (Ukraine gaining Kherson or Russia gaining Nikolaev) is going to take months now (My estimate would be 2023 earliest for either). For all intents and purposes it's a de-facto stalemate now. It's the way of modern wars, the battle of Aleppo took 4 years.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,184
    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Might I gently intervene in the music debate and simply point out that nothing is as good as Bach.

    There. Glad to have cleared that up.

    You're welcome.

    (Though I will allow 3 small exceptions: the Dies Irae in Mozart's Requiem, the Libera Me ending of Verdi's Requiem and Elgar's Salut d'Amour played here by Aldo Ciccolini - https://youtu.be/pkcHjmXmEg0).

    Interesting you should mention Mozart's Requiem. I first listened to the piece while driving alone to a funeral, and I'm convinced that this means it still has an extra emotional charge for me when I listen to it again.

    Much as I have enjoyed listening to a lot of Bach music, doing so in a dusty music hall with an audience mostly old enough to nearly be closer to contemporaries of Bach then myself does not really create the same emotional impression.

    For similar reasons the Bryan Adams album Reckless is one that I have a strong emotional bond with that I'm aware will be inexplicable to anyone else considering it solely on its objective musical merits.
    I generally have not heard Bach in dusty music halls but I have learnt to play some of it and it is some of the most satisfying music to listen to and play. There is an intensely mathematical and restrained quality about it and, yet, at the same time, tremendous emotion within those limits. That combination is what makes it so wonderful I think. Getting it right is so hard. Hearing it played well is such an experience.

    I would say that Allegri's Miserere and Pergolesi's Stabat Mater have the same quality.

    The hymn "This is my body" is the one which has me in bits. It was being sung at an Easter service a few months after my mother died and at the words

    "Do Not Forget Me; Then You Will See
    I Am Still With You, And You Will Know
    You’re Very Close To Me."

    I simply broke down. It is about the love a parent has for a child and how that - even as a memory - endures even as they leave them, as we all will.
    This song is one that makes me feel terribly sad. Even though it doesn't bear much relation to how my first marriage broke down, the sense of something ending, of a choice being made to cut one's losses, is one that pulls at me because of my fundamental belief that most people are basically reasonable and can work things out, which it challenges.

    https://youtu.be/-NL8VZmFaQc

    The Lake, Clare and the Reasons.

    But, well, it was released after 2010, so, as per Leon, it's complete crap.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    We are at the point now where useless Keir Starmer is useless because he's not further ahead, not a bad place for any leader to be three years after the worst loss since 1935 when people said Labour should be extinct

    No they didn't, everybody recognised that Corbyn was a drag on Labour and that cutting him loose would result in an uptick.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,424
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    China announces fresh military drills around Taiwan

    https://twitter.com/reuterschina/status/1556536151615217665

    This looks really quite ominous, now

    If you are Xi, attacking/blockading Taiwan this autumn - as the West is severely weakened by Ukraine/energy, makes a lot of sense. The blithering Biden is in the White House. The Pentagon is enfeebled by lack of confidence, post Afghanistan. Taiwan is still isolated by Covid

    It might indeed have been coordinated with Putin
    Very generous of Putin to destroy his army, in order to make life easier for China.

    A sensible Russian leader would recognise the vulnerability of Eastern Siberia to Chinese revanchism.

    IMHO, an invasion of Taiwan would be a fiasco for China, although the drawback of dictatorships is that military leaders aren't allowed to tell the dictator he's making a bad mistake.
    Putin is doing OK in Ukraine, despite enormous losses. All Xi will care about is that Putin’s invasion has got the West rattled, and facing recession, and therefore badly weakened. Was it all coordinated? Planned? Russia attacks in spring, China moves in autumn? Perhaps

    Also, Xi does not have to invade Taiwan, he can blockade it

    ‘Seoul, South Korea (CNN)China's military exercises show Beijing doesn't need to invade Taiwan to control it -- rather it can strangle the self-ruled island, cutting it off from the outside world, Chinese and American analysts say.’

    https://www.cnn.com/2022/08/08/asia/china-taiwan-military-exercises-what-we-learned-intl-hnk-ml/index.html
    Putin is not doing ok in Ukraine. It is a military disaster and likely to get worse in next couple of months before winter shut down.

    What happened to this much-vaunted Kherson counter-attack? By the Ukes?

    I would love to believe Russia is on the verge of collapse but I don’t buy it, because I can’t see it. What I see is a stalemate that leaves Russia in possession of a third of Ukraine

    It’s neither victory nor defeat
    That bridge to Kherson that was taken out a couple of weeks back - well they targeted it again with the HIMARS last night, weakening it further and taking out several enemy repair crews trying to get it back to serviceablility for heavy vehicles.
    The enemy are now having to use boats to supply the city.
    https://mobile.twitter.com/EuromaidanPress/status/1556503214589083648

    More stores and an estimated 100 enemy soldiers taken out by HIMARS strikes in Melitopol last night too.
    https://mobile.twitter.com/EuromaidanPress/status/1556532378721566720
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,212
    Leon said:

    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    China announces fresh military drills around Taiwan

    https://twitter.com/reuterschina/status/1556536151615217665

    This looks really quite ominous, now

    If you are Xi, attacking/blockading Taiwan this autumn - as the West is severely weakened by Ukraine/energy, makes a lot of sense. The blithering Biden is in the White House. The Pentagon is enfeebled by lack of confidence, post Afghanistan. Taiwan is still isolated by Covid

    It might indeed have been coordinated with Putin
    Very generous of Putin to destroy his army, in order to make life easier for China.

    A sensible Russian leader would recognise the vulnerability of Eastern Siberia to Chinese revanchism.

    IMHO, an invasion of Taiwan would be a fiasco for China, although the drawback of dictatorships is that military leaders aren't allowed to tell the dictator he's making a bad mistake.
    Putin is doing OK in Ukraine, despite enormous losses. All Xi will care about is that Putin’s invasion has got the West rattled, and facing recession, and therefore badly weakened. Was it all coordinated? Planned? Russia attacks in spring, China moves in autumn? Perhaps

    Also, Xi does not have to invade Taiwan, he can blockade it

    ‘Seoul, South Korea (CNN)China's military exercises show Beijing doesn't need to invade Taiwan to control it -- rather it can strangle the self-ruled island, cutting it off from the outside world, Chinese and American analysts say.’

    https://www.cnn.com/2022/08/08/asia/china-taiwan-military-exercises-what-we-learned-intl-hnk-ml/index.html
    Putin has destroyed forever, the notion that Russia is the second strongest military power in the world.

    An attack on Taiwan would certainly do the West a lot of harm. It would do China more harm, however. The Russian and Chinese leaderships doubtless believe that their opponents are so soft and decadent that they'll collapse.

    Dictators tend to believe in the "fremen mirage". It's the belief that people ruled by dictators are tougher, more many and martial, than the inhabitants of soft democracies. Actual military history does not bear that out. They mistake vast parades of thousands goose-stepping in perfect unison with military effectiveness/
    Read that CNN article quoting American analysts. China won’t invade it will blockade. It now has enough ships in place it can basically do that already
    Plenty of analysts expected a Russian walkover. The willingness of people do defend their homeland is constantly underrated.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    China announces fresh military drills around Taiwan

    https://twitter.com/reuterschina/status/1556536151615217665

    This looks really quite ominous, now

    If you are Xi, attacking/blockading Taiwan this autumn - as the West is severely weakened by Ukraine/energy, makes a lot of sense. The blithering Biden is in the White House. The Pentagon is enfeebled by lack of confidence, post Afghanistan. Taiwan is still isolated by Covid

    It might indeed have been coordinated with Putin
    Very generous of Putin to destroy his army, in order to make life easier for China.

    A sensible Russian leader would recognise the vulnerability of Eastern Siberia to Chinese revanchism.

    IMHO, an invasion of Taiwan would be a fiasco for China, although the drawback of dictatorships is that military leaders aren't allowed to tell the dictator he's making a bad mistake.
    Putin is doing OK in Ukraine, despite enormous losses. All Xi will care about is that Putin’s invasion has got the West rattled, and facing recession, and therefore badly weakened. Was it all coordinated? Planned? Russia attacks in spring, China moves in autumn? Perhaps

    Also, Xi does not have to invade Taiwan, he can blockade it

    ‘Seoul, South Korea (CNN)China's military exercises show Beijing doesn't need to invade Taiwan to control it -- rather it can strangle the self-ruled island, cutting it off from the outside world, Chinese and American analysts say.’

    https://www.cnn.com/2022/08/08/asia/china-taiwan-military-exercises-what-we-learned-intl-hnk-ml/index.html
    Putin is not doing ok in Ukraine. It is a military disaster and likely to get worse in next couple of months before winter shut down.

    What happened to this much-vaunted Kherson counter-attack? By the Ukes?

    I would love to believe Russia is on the verge of collapse but I don’t buy it, because I can’t see it. What I see is a stalemate that leaves Russia in possession of a third of Ukraine

    It’s neither victory nor defeat
    Russia holds nothing like a third of Ukraine, has suffered immense losses, and faces both partisan warfare in the occupied areas and an increasingly strong regular army opposed to it.

    Saying Putin is dong "well" is like saying Hitler was doing well at the start of 1944, because Germany held more territory than in 1939.
    And General Winter is on the way. Considerable home advantage when the snow starts piling up.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,184
    Sandpit said:

    eek said:

    Sandpit said:

    Just got our FTTP, 500Mb download is ridiculous

    You can now download all the porn from the internet in record time!
    Interestingly we are about to enter a scenario where for many people speed issues will be within the house and no longer between the house and the outside world...

    That is going to lead to a lot of customer support issues where the answer is - it's something within your house that we can't easily fix...
    I see that from the other side, installing wifi systems in large houses. People who have bought gigabit internet, but the wifi system only supports 200mbps or slower. I generally use business-class wifi hardware, rather than the cutting-edge consumer stuff. Try explaining that a Netflix stream uses 20mpbs at best, and see the look of bewilderment! Or it’s an older house, with Cat5e infrastructure so you’re only getting 100Mbps internally. People don’t understand why they don’t get gigabit wifi on their phone, when they have gigabit fibre into their house.
    Say you have five people in the house using the WiFi on different devices, with 1Gbps to the house and WiFi supporting 200Mbps. Do they each get 200Mbps, or 40Mbps?
  • As its now available in my area I am considering ordering Starlink...
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,871
    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    China announces fresh military drills around Taiwan

    https://twitter.com/reuterschina/status/1556536151615217665

    This looks really quite ominous, now

    If you are Xi, attacking/blockading Taiwan this autumn - as the West is severely weakened by Ukraine/energy, makes a lot of sense. The blithering Biden is in the White House. The Pentagon is enfeebled by lack of confidence, post Afghanistan. Taiwan is still isolated by Covid

    It might indeed have been coordinated with Putin
    Very generous of Putin to destroy his army, in order to make life easier for China.

    A sensible Russian leader would recognise the vulnerability of Eastern Siberia to Chinese revanchism.

    IMHO, an invasion of Taiwan would be a fiasco for China, although the drawback of dictatorships is that military leaders aren't allowed to tell the dictator he's making a bad mistake.
    Putin is doing OK in Ukraine, despite enormous losses. All Xi will care about is that Putin’s invasion has got the West rattled, and facing recession, and therefore badly weakened. Was it all coordinated? Planned? Russia attacks in spring, China moves in autumn? Perhaps

    Also, Xi does not have to invade Taiwan, he can blockade it

    ‘Seoul, South Korea (CNN)China's military exercises show Beijing doesn't need to invade Taiwan to control it -- rather it can strangle the self-ruled island, cutting it off from the outside world, Chinese and American analysts say.’

    https://www.cnn.com/2022/08/08/asia/china-taiwan-military-exercises-what-we-learned-intl-hnk-ml/index.html
    Putin is not doing ok in Ukraine. It is a military disaster and likely to get worse in next couple of months before winter shut down.

    What happened to this much-vaunted Kherson counter-attack? By the Ukes?

    I would love to believe Russia is on the verge of collapse but I don’t buy it, because I can’t see it. What I see is a stalemate that leaves Russia in possession of a third of Ukraine

    It’s neither victory nor defeat
    Russia holds nothing like a third of Ukraine, has suffered immense losses, and faces both partisan warfare in the occupied areas and an increasingly strong regular army opposed to it.

    Saying Putin is dong "well" is like saying Hitler was doing well at the start of 1944, because Germany held more territory than in 1939.
    i said Putin is doing OK in Ukraine, not well. Big difference

    And he is doing OK. He has consolidated his hold on Luhansk and Donbass. He has a grip on south Ukraine and the land corridor to the Crimea

    But he is not doing “well” because this has come at vast cost and after some terrible earlier errors, from which he has had to recover. Is he bound to win? Absolutely not, as you say he faces a long insurgency.

    Is he doomed to defeat? Not that either. Russia is resilient and Putin has cards to play. From energy blackmail to nuclear stand offs. A Chinese blockade of Taiwan would really help him, by setting a cat in western pigeons

    I’m all for hoping for the best, but we should be alert to reality
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,373
    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    This sounds eerily like Ukraine in Feb of this year. Let’s hope not


    “Taiwan is preparing air-raid shelters in underground spaces such as basement car parks, the subway system and subterranean shopping centres as fears of a Chinese attack increase. The capital, Taipei, has more than 4,600 such shelters that can accommodate 12 million people, more than four times its population. Reporting by Yimou Lee and Fabian Hamacher/Reuters
    Ann Wang / Reuters”

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/gallery/2022/aug/08/taiwan-prepares-for-life-underground-amid-china-threat-in-pictures

    They do this whenever China start to sabre rattle, just in case China is stupid enough to attempt an invasion. It's good future planning and is also good as a drill if as most likely China soon says the military exercise was a great success and go home.

    China know their ability to invade Taiwan is at best very poor, in reality they could maybe hope in taking the islands near the Chinese coast. Mind you were live in times of dictators massively over estimating the ability of their militaries.
    They will blockade, not attack

    China can cut Taiwan off from the rest of the world, then present a fait accompli. No more chips with everything, unless Taipei accepts Beijing rule. I reckon the West would fold rather than go to nuclear war over Taiwan. And then, without the west, Taiwan would reluctantly surrender. Xi gets his prize, China is unified, not a shot is fired, as with Hong Kong
    Taiwan has sophisticated naval and air defences. It can destroy Chinese ships. It's also got a pair of very powerful US navies in the vicinity.
    It's the original Taiwanese people that I feel sorry for. Somebody else's fight being carried on over their heads.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,184
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    This sounds eerily like Ukraine in Feb of this year. Let’s hope not


    “Taiwan is preparing air-raid shelters in underground spaces such as basement car parks, the subway system and subterranean shopping centres as fears of a Chinese attack increase. The capital, Taipei, has more than 4,600 such shelters that can accommodate 12 million people, more than four times its population. Reporting by Yimou Lee and Fabian Hamacher/Reuters
    Ann Wang / Reuters”

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/gallery/2022/aug/08/taiwan-prepares-for-life-underground-amid-china-threat-in-pictures

    They do this whenever China start to sabre rattle, just in case China is stupid enough to attempt an invasion. It's good future planning and is also good as a drill if as most likely China soon says the military exercise was a great success and go home.

    China know their ability to invade Taiwan is at best very poor, in reality they could maybe hope in taking the islands near the Chinese coast. Mind you were live in times of dictators massively over estimating the ability of their militaries.
    They will blockade, not attack

    China can cut Taiwan off from the rest of the world, then present a fait accompli. No more chips with everything, unless Taipei accepts Beijing rule. I reckon the West would fold rather than go to nuclear war over Taiwan. And then, without the west, Taiwan would reluctantly surrender. Xi gets his prize, China is unified, not a shot is fired, as with Hong Kong
    If Ukraine can break the Russian naval blockade by sinking a few ships with Western donated missiles then I'm struggling to see how the Chinese Navy will enforce a blockade of Taiwan.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,424
    edited August 2022

    Sandpit said:

    eek said:

    Sandpit said:

    Just got our FTTP, 500Mb download is ridiculous

    You can now download all the porn from the internet in record time!
    Interestingly we are about to enter a scenario where for many people speed issues will be within the house and no longer between the house and the outside world...

    That is going to lead to a lot of customer support issues where the answer is - it's something within your house that we can't easily fix...
    I see that from the other side, installing wifi systems in large houses. People who have bought gigabit internet, but the wifi system only supports 200mbps or slower. I generally use business-class wifi hardware, rather than the cutting-edge consumer stuff. Try explaining that a Netflix stream uses 20mpbs at best, and see the look of bewilderment! Or it’s an older house, with Cat5e infrastructure so you’re only getting 100Mbps internally. People don’t understand why they don’t get gigabit wifi on their phone, when they have gigabit fibre into their house.
    Say you have five people in the house using the WiFi on different devices, with 1Gbps to the house and WiFi supporting 200Mbps. Do they each get 200Mbps, or 40Mbps?
    It depends on the wifi access points and the internal infrastructure cabling.

    If you have a simple house with one 200mbps router connected to the gigabit fibre, each device will see 200mbps. Most UK houses are like this.

    If you have a big house with several access points cabled to the router, there will be a limit per access point, as well as per device.

    If you have a mesh network, with lots of wifi repeaters using wifi themselves to talk to each other, that’s when you can get the 40mbps per device.

    Advice to anyone refurbing a house - put CAT6 data cables in every room!
    Advice to anyone looking at gigabit internet - make sure you can run a cable from the router to the computer, if you need all the capacity.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,871

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    This sounds eerily like Ukraine in Feb of this year. Let’s hope not


    “Taiwan is preparing air-raid shelters in underground spaces such as basement car parks, the subway system and subterranean shopping centres as fears of a Chinese attack increase. The capital, Taipei, has more than 4,600 such shelters that can accommodate 12 million people, more than four times its population. Reporting by Yimou Lee and Fabian Hamacher/Reuters
    Ann Wang / Reuters”

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/gallery/2022/aug/08/taiwan-prepares-for-life-underground-amid-china-threat-in-pictures

    They do this whenever China start to sabre rattle, just in case China is stupid enough to attempt an invasion. It's good future planning and is also good as a drill if as most likely China soon says the military exercise was a great success and go home.

    China know their ability to invade Taiwan is at best very poor, in reality they could maybe hope in taking the islands near the Chinese coast. Mind you were live in times of dictators massively over estimating the ability of their militaries.
    They will blockade, not attack

    China can cut Taiwan off from the rest of the world, then present a fait accompli. No more chips with everything, unless Taipei accepts Beijing rule. I reckon the West would fold rather than go to nuclear war over Taiwan. And then, without the west, Taiwan would reluctantly surrender. Xi gets his prize, China is unified, not a shot is fired, as with Hong Kong
    If Ukraine can break the Russian naval blockade by sinking a few ships with Western donated missiles then I'm struggling to see how the Chinese Navy will enforce a blockade of Taiwan.
    Because the Chinese navy is the biggest in the world, supported by a huge airforce and missile capability, and Taiwan is right offshore of China?
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,890
    Was Mid Bedfordshire the only constituency where two Monster Raving Loony candidates stood?
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,509
    A tricky one for Labour to de facto concede to the Libdems as we did in T&H, as the proportion is nearly 2:1 and Labour has been second since 2015. This is the sort of seat that will be awkward at the GE too. With a formal pact we could trade Parliamentary concessions for conessions in County/borough sears, but where it's a nod and a wink, that doesn't work so well. On the other hand, a LD win would certainly shake the Blue Wall...
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,363

    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    This sounds eerily like Ukraine in Feb of this year. Let’s hope not


    “Taiwan is preparing air-raid shelters in underground spaces such as basement car parks, the subway system and subterranean shopping centres as fears of a Chinese attack increase. The capital, Taipei, has more than 4,600 such shelters that can accommodate 12 million people, more than four times its population. Reporting by Yimou Lee and Fabian Hamacher/Reuters
    Ann Wang / Reuters”

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/gallery/2022/aug/08/taiwan-prepares-for-life-underground-amid-china-threat-in-pictures

    They do this whenever China start to sabre rattle, just in case China is stupid enough to attempt an invasion. It's good future planning and is also good as a drill if as most likely China soon says the military exercise was a great success and go home.

    China know their ability to invade Taiwan is at best very poor, in reality they could maybe hope in taking the islands near the Chinese coast. Mind you were live in times of dictators massively over estimating the ability of their militaries.
    They will blockade, not attack

    China can cut Taiwan off from the rest of the world, then present a fait accompli. No more chips with everything, unless Taipei accepts Beijing rule. I reckon the West would fold rather than go to nuclear war over Taiwan. And then, without the west, Taiwan would reluctantly surrender. Xi gets his prize, China is unified, not a shot is fired, as with Hong Kong
    Taiwan has sophisticated naval and air defences. It can destroy Chinese ships. It's also got a pair of very powerful US navies in the vicinity.
    It's the original Taiwanese people that I feel sorry for. Somebody else's fight being carried on over their heads.
    According to this theory most of them left many centuries ago.

    https://historylearning.com/history-of-the-philippines/pre-history/population-theories/out-of-taiwan-model/#:~:text=The “Out of Taiwan” model,of people of Austronesian ancestry.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,640
    IshmaelZ said:

    Opinium

    LAB 37
    CON 34

    Best PM Truss leads SKS

    I am at a loss can any SKS fans please explain

    Cos he is off on his hols cogitating about Nandy while Truss is in the public eye doing hustings. When he is back on our screens, 15 point increase nailed on.

    Probably.
    For Truss?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,034
    edited August 2022
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    This sounds eerily like Ukraine in Feb of this year. Let’s hope not


    “Taiwan is preparing air-raid shelters in underground spaces such as basement car parks, the subway system and subterranean shopping centres as fears of a Chinese attack increase. The capital, Taipei, has more than 4,600 such shelters that can accommodate 12 million people, more than four times its population. Reporting by Yimou Lee and Fabian Hamacher/Reuters
    Ann Wang / Reuters”

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/gallery/2022/aug/08/taiwan-prepares-for-life-underground-amid-china-threat-in-pictures

    They do this whenever China start to sabre rattle, just in case China is stupid enough to attempt an invasion. It's good future planning and is also good as a drill if as most likely China soon says the military exercise was a great success and go home.

    China know their ability to invade Taiwan is at best very poor, in reality they could maybe hope in taking the islands near the Chinese coast. Mind you were live in times of dictators massively over estimating the ability of their militaries.
    They will blockade, not attack

    China can cut Taiwan off from the rest of the world, then present a fait accompli. No more chips with everything, unless Taipei accepts Beijing rule. I reckon the West would fold rather than go to nuclear war over Taiwan. And then, without the west, Taiwan would reluctantly surrender. Xi gets his prize, China is unified, not a shot is fired, as with Hong Kong
    If Ukraine can break the Russian naval blockade by sinking a few ships with Western donated missiles then I'm struggling to see how the Chinese Navy will enforce a blockade of Taiwan.
    Because the Chinese navy is the biggest in the world, supported by a huge airforce and missile capability, and Taiwan is right offshore of China?
    It'd get very messy very quickly. We'd quickly head to a grinding stalemate with I believe a blockade being enforced but China unable to complete any landing.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,184
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    China announces fresh military drills around Taiwan

    https://twitter.com/reuterschina/status/1556536151615217665

    This looks really quite ominous, now

    If you are Xi, attacking/blockading Taiwan this autumn - as the West is severely weakened by Ukraine/energy, makes a lot of sense. The blithering Biden is in the White House. The Pentagon is enfeebled by lack of confidence, post Afghanistan. Taiwan is still isolated by Covid

    It might indeed have been coordinated with Putin
    Very generous of Putin to destroy his army, in order to make life easier for China.

    A sensible Russian leader would recognise the vulnerability of Eastern Siberia to Chinese revanchism.

    IMHO, an invasion of Taiwan would be a fiasco for China, although the drawback of dictatorships is that military leaders aren't allowed to tell the dictator he's making a bad mistake.
    Putin is doing OK in Ukraine, despite enormous losses. All Xi will care about is that Putin’s invasion has got the West rattled, and facing recession, and therefore badly weakened. Was it all coordinated? Planned? Russia attacks in spring, China moves in autumn? Perhaps

    Also, Xi does not have to invade Taiwan, he can blockade it

    ‘Seoul, South Korea (CNN)China's military exercises show Beijing doesn't need to invade Taiwan to control it -- rather it can strangle the self-ruled island, cutting it off from the outside world, Chinese and American analysts say.’

    https://www.cnn.com/2022/08/08/asia/china-taiwan-military-exercises-what-we-learned-intl-hnk-ml/index.html
    Putin is not doing ok in Ukraine. It is a military disaster and likely to get worse in next couple of months before winter shut down.

    What happened to this much-vaunted Kherson counter-attack? By the Ukes?

    I would love to believe Russia is on the verge of collapse but I don’t buy it, because I can’t see it. What I see is a stalemate that leaves Russia in possession of a third of Ukraine

    It’s neither victory nor defeat
    "Ukraine War Map
    @War_Mapper
    Over the month of July 🇷🇺 increased the area of land they control in Ukraine by approximately 165 km².

    This equates to a total of ~19.4% of Ukraine being occupied. ~0.02% more than at the end of June."


    https://twitter.com/War_Mapper/status/1554989202395242497
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,458
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    This sounds eerily like Ukraine in Feb of this year. Let’s hope not


    “Taiwan is preparing air-raid shelters in underground spaces such as basement car parks, the subway system and subterranean shopping centres as fears of a Chinese attack increase. The capital, Taipei, has more than 4,600 such shelters that can accommodate 12 million people, more than four times its population. Reporting by Yimou Lee and Fabian Hamacher/Reuters
    Ann Wang / Reuters”

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/gallery/2022/aug/08/taiwan-prepares-for-life-underground-amid-china-threat-in-pictures

    They do this whenever China start to sabre rattle, just in case China is stupid enough to attempt an invasion. It's good future planning and is also good as a drill if as most likely China soon says the military exercise was a great success and go home.

    China know their ability to invade Taiwan is at best very poor, in reality they could maybe hope in taking the islands near the Chinese coast. Mind you were live in times of dictators massively over estimating the ability of their militaries.
    They will blockade, not attack

    China can cut Taiwan off from the rest of the world, then present a fait accompli. No more chips with everything, unless Taipei accepts Beijing rule. I reckon the West would fold rather than go to nuclear war over Taiwan. And then, without the west, Taiwan would reluctantly surrender. Xi gets his prize, China is unified, not a shot is fired, as with Hong Kong
    Taiwan is a highly developed state, it could survive on its own.

    Like Ukraine its residents would also fight to the death rather than accept Beijing rule
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,640

    Opinium

    LAB 37
    CON 34

    Best PM Truss leads SKS

    I am at a loss can any SKS fans please explain

    Starmer is a complete dud. Appallingly poor.
    Ahh that would explain it.

    SKS fans do not concur (yet)
  • Was Mid Bedfordshire the only constituency where two Monster Raving Loony candidates stood?

    Its certainly one of the few where a Monster Raving Loony candidate becomes not just MP but cabinet secretary.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 21,869
    edited August 2022
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    eek said:

    Sandpit said:

    Just got our FTTP, 500Mb download is ridiculous

    You can now download all the porn from the internet in record time!
    Interestingly we are about to enter a scenario where for many people speed issues will be within the house and no longer between the house and the outside world...

    That is going to lead to a lot of customer support issues where the answer is - it's something within your house that we can't easily fix...
    I see that from the other side, installing wifi systems in large houses. People who have bought gigabit internet, but the wifi system only supports 200mbps or slower. I generally use business-class wifi hardware, rather than the cutting-edge consumer stuff. Try explaining that a Netflix stream uses 20mpbs at best, and see the look of bewilderment! Or it’s an older house, with Cat5e infrastructure so you’re only getting 100Mbps internally. People don’t understand why they don’t get gigabit wifi on their phone, when they have gigabit fibre into their house.
    Say you have five people in the house using the WiFi on different devices, with 1Gbps to the house and WiFi supporting 200Mbps. Do they each get 200Mbps, or 40Mbps?
    It depends on the wifi access points and the internal infrastructure cabling.

    If you have a simple house with one 200mbps router connected to the gigabit fibre, each device will see 200mbps. Most UK houses are like this.

    If you have a big house with several access points cabled to the router, there will be a limit per access point, as well as per device.

    If you have a mesh network, with lots of wifi repeaters using wifi themselves to talk to each other, that’s when you can get the 40mbps per device.

    Advice to anyone refurbing a house - put CAT6 data cables in every room!
    Advice to anyone looking at gigabit internet - make sure you can run a cable from the router to the computer, if you need all the capacity.
    Of course not that long ago people refurbing a house thought it was great future proofing to put CAT5E cables and USB-A plug sockets in every room.

    It will be interesting to see where we are in another 20 years time on the cabling or wireless front.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,871

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    China announces fresh military drills around Taiwan

    https://twitter.com/reuterschina/status/1556536151615217665

    This looks really quite ominous, now

    If you are Xi, attacking/blockading Taiwan this autumn - as the West is severely weakened by Ukraine/energy, makes a lot of sense. The blithering Biden is in the White House. The Pentagon is enfeebled by lack of confidence, post Afghanistan. Taiwan is still isolated by Covid

    It might indeed have been coordinated with Putin
    Very generous of Putin to destroy his army, in order to make life easier for China.

    A sensible Russian leader would recognise the vulnerability of Eastern Siberia to Chinese revanchism.

    IMHO, an invasion of Taiwan would be a fiasco for China, although the drawback of dictatorships is that military leaders aren't allowed to tell the dictator he's making a bad mistake.
    Putin is doing OK in Ukraine, despite enormous losses. All Xi will care about is that Putin’s invasion has got the West rattled, and facing recession, and therefore badly weakened. Was it all coordinated? Planned? Russia attacks in spring, China moves in autumn? Perhaps

    Also, Xi does not have to invade Taiwan, he can blockade it

    ‘Seoul, South Korea (CNN)China's military exercises show Beijing doesn't need to invade Taiwan to control it -- rather it can strangle the self-ruled island, cutting it off from the outside world, Chinese and American analysts say.’

    https://www.cnn.com/2022/08/08/asia/china-taiwan-military-exercises-what-we-learned-intl-hnk-ml/index.html
    Putin is not doing ok in Ukraine. It is a military disaster and likely to get worse in next couple of months before winter shut down.

    What happened to this much-vaunted Kherson counter-attack? By the Ukes?

    I would love to believe Russia is on the verge of collapse but I don’t buy it, because I can’t see it. What I see is a stalemate that leaves Russia in possession of a third of Ukraine

    It’s neither victory nor defeat
    "Ukraine War Map
    @War_Mapper
    Over the month of July 🇷🇺 increased the area of land they control in Ukraine by approximately 165 km².

    This equates to a total of ~19.4% of Ukraine being occupied. ~0.02% more than at the end of June."


    https://twitter.com/War_Mapper/status/1554989202395242497
    I was using shorthand. I readily accept it is 20% in truth. Still a hefty chunk
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,640

    Opinium

    LAB 37
    CON 34

    Best PM Truss leads SKS

    I am at a loss can any SKS fans please explain

    No Tory poll leads for EIGHT MONTHS and TWO DAYS.

    @bigjohnowls please explain!
    Tories are a shitshow

    "Any other leader would be 20pts ahead" apparently
  • eekeek Posts: 28,136
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    eek said:

    Sandpit said:

    Just got our FTTP, 500Mb download is ridiculous

    You can now download all the porn from the internet in record time!
    Interestingly we are about to enter a scenario where for many people speed issues will be within the house and no longer between the house and the outside world...

    That is going to lead to a lot of customer support issues where the answer is - it's something within your house that we can't easily fix...
    I see that from the other side, installing wifi systems in large houses. People who have bought gigabit internet, but the wifi system only supports 200mbps or slower. I generally use business-class wifi hardware, rather than the cutting-edge consumer stuff. Try explaining that a Netflix stream uses 20mpbs at best, and see the look of bewilderment! Or it’s an older house, with Cat5e infrastructure so you’re only getting 100Mbps internally. People don’t understand why they don’t get gigabit wifi on their phone, when they have gigabit fibre into their house.
    Say you have five people in the house using the WiFi on different devices, with 1Gbps to the house and WiFi supporting 200Mbps. Do they each get 200Mbps, or 40Mbps?
    It depends on the wifi access points and the internal infrastructure cabling.

    If you have a simple house with one 200mbps router connected to the gigabit fibre, each device will see 200mbps. Most UK houses are like this.

    If you have a big house with several access points cabled to the router, there will be a limit per access point, as well as per device.

    If you have a mesh network, with lots of wifi repeaters using wifi themselves to talk to each other, that’s when you can get the 40mbps per device.

    Advice to anyone refurbing a house - put CAT6 data cables in every room!
    Advice to anyone looking at gigabit internet - make sure you can run a cable from the router to the computer, if you need all the capacity.
    If you are refurbing the house - make sure you have trunking (if possible) to allow the cable to be updated over the years - ethernet cable has a far shorter life expectancy than power cables.

    but the ideal wifi solution is a Mesh system with wired backends and there aren't many of those around that are any good
  • Leon said:

    Leon said:

    This sounds eerily like Ukraine in Feb of this year. Let’s hope not


    “Taiwan is preparing air-raid shelters in underground spaces such as basement car parks, the subway system and subterranean shopping centres as fears of a Chinese attack increase. The capital, Taipei, has more than 4,600 such shelters that can accommodate 12 million people, more than four times its population. Reporting by Yimou Lee and Fabian Hamacher/Reuters
    Ann Wang / Reuters”

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/gallery/2022/aug/08/taiwan-prepares-for-life-underground-amid-china-threat-in-pictures

    They do this whenever China start to sabre rattle, just in case China is stupid enough to attempt an invasion. It's good future planning and is also good as a drill if as most likely China soon says the military exercise was a great success and go home.

    China know their ability to invade Taiwan is at best very poor, in reality they could maybe hope in taking the islands near the Chinese coast. Mind you were live in times of dictators massively over estimating the ability of their militaries.
    They will blockade, not attack

    China can cut Taiwan off from the rest of the world, then present a fait accompli. No more chips with everything, unless Taipei accepts Beijing rule. I reckon the West would fold rather than go to nuclear war over Taiwan. And then, without the west, Taiwan would reluctantly surrender. Xi gets his prize, China is unified, not a shot is fired, as with Hong Kong
    Implementing and maintaining a blockade are 2 different things. Taiwan is not Ukraine, it already has modern military equipment, including a large amount of anti ship missiles which have a range of 250 miles. As well as an actual submarine fleet.
    China would also need to gain aerial supremacy which will be very difficult as they only have 2 operational aircraft carriers currently. China could implement a blockade but they would find it very very difficult to maintain, and that's before any intervention from the rest of the world.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,136

    As its now available in my area I am considering ordering Starlink...

    Probably your only option until BT offers Fibre to the Premises. It's a good system but really only a second choice...
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,424
    edited August 2022

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    eek said:

    Sandpit said:

    Just got our FTTP, 500Mb download is ridiculous

    You can now download all the porn from the internet in record time!
    Interestingly we are about to enter a scenario where for many people speed issues will be within the house and no longer between the house and the outside world...

    That is going to lead to a lot of customer support issues where the answer is - it's something within your house that we can't easily fix...
    I see that from the other side, installing wifi systems in large houses. People who have bought gigabit internet, but the wifi system only supports 200mbps or slower. I generally use business-class wifi hardware, rather than the cutting-edge consumer stuff. Try explaining that a Netflix stream uses 20mpbs at best, and see the look of bewilderment! Or it’s an older house, with Cat5e infrastructure so you’re only getting 100Mbps internally. People don’t understand why they don’t get gigabit wifi on their phone, when they have gigabit fibre into their house.
    Say you have five people in the house using the WiFi on different devices, with 1Gbps to the house and WiFi supporting 200Mbps. Do they each get 200Mbps, or 40Mbps?
    It depends on the wifi access points and the internal infrastructure cabling.

    If you have a simple house with one 200mbps router connected to the gigabit fibre, each device will see 200mbps. Most UK houses are like this.

    If you have a big house with several access points cabled to the router, there will be a limit per access point, as well as per device.

    If you have a mesh network, with lots of wifi repeaters using wifi themselves to talk to each other, that’s when you can get the 40mbps per device.

    Advice to anyone refurbing a house - put CAT6 data cables in every room!
    Advice to anyone looking at gigabit internet - make sure you can run a cable from the router to the computer, if you need all the capacity.
    Of course not that long ago people refurbing a house thought it was great future proofing to put CAT5E cables and USB-A plug sockets in every room.
    Indeed!

    If you did so 15 years ago - and did it properly with conduits, rather than plastering the cables inside the walls, it’s now an easy job to pull through CAT6 or even CAT7 cables and upgrade the wall boxes. :D
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    This sounds eerily like Ukraine in Feb of this year. Let’s hope not


    “Taiwan is preparing air-raid shelters in underground spaces such as basement car parks, the subway system and subterranean shopping centres as fears of a Chinese attack increase. The capital, Taipei, has more than 4,600 such shelters that can accommodate 12 million people, more than four times its population. Reporting by Yimou Lee and Fabian Hamacher/Reuters
    Ann Wang / Reuters”

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/gallery/2022/aug/08/taiwan-prepares-for-life-underground-amid-china-threat-in-pictures

    They do this whenever China start to sabre rattle, just in case China is stupid enough to attempt an invasion. It's good future planning and is also good as a drill if as most likely China soon says the military exercise was a great success and go home.

    China know their ability to invade Taiwan is at best very poor, in reality they could maybe hope in taking the islands near the Chinese coast. Mind you were live in times of dictators massively over estimating the ability of their militaries.
    They will blockade, not attack

    China can cut Taiwan off from the rest of the world, then present a fait accompli. No more chips with everything, unless Taipei accepts Beijing rule. I reckon the West would fold rather than go to nuclear war over Taiwan. And then, without the west, Taiwan would reluctantly surrender. Xi gets his prize, China is unified, not a shot is fired, as with Hong Kong
    Taiwan is a highly developed state, it could survive on its own.

    Like Ukraine its residents would also fight to the death rather than accept Beijing rule
    What, be completely self sufficient indefinitely?

    Don't be ridiculous.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,458

    Opinium

    LAB 37
    CON 34

    Best PM Truss leads SKS

    I am at a loss can any SKS fans please explain

    Starmer is a complete dud. Appallingly poor.
    David Cameron actually trailed Gordon Brown for a while when he took over as PM.

    It is the polls this time next year that will matter once the Truss bounce fades
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,007
    Dura_Ace said:

    vik said:

    FPT:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:


    For instance, democracy is in retreat. And has been for many years. Do you get out much?


    “In 2018, Freedom in the World recorded the 13th consecutive year of decline in global freedom. The reversal has spanned a variety of countries in every region, from long-standing democracies like the United States to consolidated authoritarian regimes like China and Russia. The overall losses are still shallow compared with the gains of the late 20th century, but the pattern is consistent and ominous. Democracy is in retreat.”

    https://freedomhouse.org/report/freedom-world/2019/democracy-retreat

    That was in 2019. Do you think it’s got better since then? No, neither do I

    That’s a random think-tank opinion piece trying to push a narrative, rather than a scientific study. The last few years have shown that, in countries like the USA, democracy has very much prevailed over those who said it woundn’t.

    China and Russia never had anything but a fig-leaf of democracy anyway.
    Democracy prevailed in 2019, but there are questions about whether it'll prevail in the future.

    The MAGA forces are very busy trying to get "Stop the Steal" supporters elected into key Secretary of State and Governor positions in various states.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2022/07/19/magazine/stop-the-steal.html
    Trump is going to be the next president. Win, lose of draw. The actual election result is probably irrelevant at this point. He did look like fucking shit at that Saudi golf thing thought so maybe he is dying.
    He's an 8 handicap but that's with his caddy throwing his bad drives onto the fairway and he doesn't bother putting inside 10 feet, just gives it to himself as holed.

    Guy's an utter abomination.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,266
    Leon said:

    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    China announces fresh military drills around Taiwan

    https://twitter.com/reuterschina/status/1556536151615217665

    This looks really quite ominous, now

    If you are Xi, attacking/blockading Taiwan this autumn - as the West is severely weakened by Ukraine/energy, makes a lot of sense. The blithering Biden is in the White House. The Pentagon is enfeebled by lack of confidence, post Afghanistan. Taiwan is still isolated by Covid

    It might indeed have been coordinated with Putin
    Very generous of Putin to destroy his army, in order to make life easier for China.

    A sensible Russian leader would recognise the vulnerability of Eastern Siberia to Chinese revanchism.

    IMHO, an invasion of Taiwan would be a fiasco for China, although the drawback of dictatorships is that military leaders aren't allowed to tell the dictator he's making a bad mistake.
    Putin is doing OK in Ukraine, despite enormous losses. All Xi will care about is that Putin’s invasion has got the West rattled, and facing recession, and therefore badly weakened. Was it all coordinated? Planned? Russia attacks in spring, China moves in autumn? Perhaps

    Also, Xi does not have to invade Taiwan, he can blockade it

    ‘Seoul, South Korea (CNN)China's military exercises show Beijing doesn't need to invade Taiwan to control it -- rather it can strangle the self-ruled island, cutting it off from the outside world, Chinese and American analysts say.’

    https://www.cnn.com/2022/08/08/asia/china-taiwan-military-exercises-what-we-learned-intl-hnk-ml/index.html
    Putin has destroyed forever, the notion that Russia is the second strongest military power in the world.

    An attack on Taiwan would certainly do the West a lot of harm. It would do China more harm, however. The Russian and Chinese leaderships doubtless believe that their opponents are so soft and decadent that they'll collapse.

    Dictators tend to believe in the "fremen mirage". It's the belief that people ruled by dictators are tougher, more many and martial, than the inhabitants of soft democracies. Actual military history does not bear that out. They mistake vast parades of thousands goose-stepping in perfect unison with military effectiveness/
    Read that CNN article quoting American analysts. China won’t invade it will blockade. It now has enough ships in place it can basically do that already
    This interesting thread from The New Statesman also thinks invasion/war is unlikely.

    https://twitter.com/newstatesman/status/1556537582917492737?s=21&t=VIYOpc6Zclcu2hia_LCGgg
  • DynamoDynamo Posts: 651
    Leon said:

    jonny83 said:

    Leon said:

    China announces fresh military drills around Taiwan

    https://twitter.com/reuterschina/status/1556536151615217665

    This looks really quite ominous, now

    If you are Xi, attacking/blockading Taiwan this autumn - as the West is severely weakened by Ukraine/energy, makes a lot of sense. The blithering Biden is in the White House. The Pentagon is enfeebled by lack of confidence, post Afghanistan. Taiwan is still isolated by Covid

    It might indeed have been coordinated with Putin
    The thing is the West isn't really weakened. I mean sure the desire to do the bare minimum in Ukraine and pulling out of places like Afghanistan after so many years can be seen as a weakness to some but the West still has that power in reserve.

    The US is still by far the most powerful military nation on Earth, and they will get involved if China attacks Taiwan.
    The US is militarily more powerful than China, but America has lost its last four wars, and both sides can wipe each other out with nukes. Plus the Chinese navy is now bigger than the US navy, China has much more manpower, and Taiwan is clearly much easier for China to encircle than for distant America to defend

    And yes the West is weakened. We were hegemonic; we are not now. The centre of the global economy and global trade is Asia
    Agreed. There's nothing that government elites in China and Russia, and jihadist elites too, would appreciate more than if the USA were to try its luck in Taiwan. (They loved the invasion of Afghanistan too.)

    Seriously...as if the USA is in a better position to win wars on or near the world island at the other end of such ridiculously long supply lines now than it was in 1970 when it accounted for 36% of the world economy.

    PS Which four wars? Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, and which is the 4th one you are counting?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,458

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    This sounds eerily like Ukraine in Feb of this year. Let’s hope not


    “Taiwan is preparing air-raid shelters in underground spaces such as basement car parks, the subway system and subterranean shopping centres as fears of a Chinese attack increase. The capital, Taipei, has more than 4,600 such shelters that can accommodate 12 million people, more than four times its population. Reporting by Yimou Lee and Fabian Hamacher/Reuters
    Ann Wang / Reuters”

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/gallery/2022/aug/08/taiwan-prepares-for-life-underground-amid-china-threat-in-pictures

    They do this whenever China start to sabre rattle, just in case China is stupid enough to attempt an invasion. It's good future planning and is also good as a drill if as most likely China soon says the military exercise was a great success and go home.

    China know their ability to invade Taiwan is at best very poor, in reality they could maybe hope in taking the islands near the Chinese coast. Mind you were live in times of dictators massively over estimating the ability of their militaries.
    They will blockade, not attack

    China can cut Taiwan off from the rest of the world, then present a fait accompli. No more chips with everything, unless Taipei accepts Beijing rule. I reckon the West would fold rather than go to nuclear war over Taiwan. And then, without the west, Taiwan would reluctantly surrender. Xi gets his prize, China is unified, not a shot is fired, as with Hong Kong
    Implementing and maintaining a blockade are 2 different things. Taiwan is not Ukraine, it already has modern military equipment, including a large amount of anti ship missiles which have a range of 250 miles. As well as an actual submarine fleet.
    China would also need to gain aerial supremacy which will be very difficult as they only have 2 operational aircraft carriers currently. China could implement a blockade but they would find it very very difficult to maintain, and that's before any intervention from the rest of the world.
    The rest of the world, certainly the West and India, would also impose economic sanctions on China like the West has on Russia
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,184
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    This sounds eerily like Ukraine in Feb of this year. Let’s hope not


    “Taiwan is preparing air-raid shelters in underground spaces such as basement car parks, the subway system and subterranean shopping centres as fears of a Chinese attack increase. The capital, Taipei, has more than 4,600 such shelters that can accommodate 12 million people, more than four times its population. Reporting by Yimou Lee and Fabian Hamacher/Reuters
    Ann Wang / Reuters”

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/gallery/2022/aug/08/taiwan-prepares-for-life-underground-amid-china-threat-in-pictures

    They do this whenever China start to sabre rattle, just in case China is stupid enough to attempt an invasion. It's good future planning and is also good as a drill if as most likely China soon says the military exercise was a great success and go home.

    China know their ability to invade Taiwan is at best very poor, in reality they could maybe hope in taking the islands near the Chinese coast. Mind you were live in times of dictators massively over estimating the ability of their militaries.
    They will blockade, not attack

    China can cut Taiwan off from the rest of the world, then present a fait accompli. No more chips with everything, unless Taipei accepts Beijing rule. I reckon the West would fold rather than go to nuclear war over Taiwan. And then, without the west, Taiwan would reluctantly surrender. Xi gets his prize, China is unified, not a shot is fired, as with Hong Kong
    If Ukraine can break the Russian naval blockade by sinking a few ships with Western donated missiles then I'm struggling to see how the Chinese Navy will enforce a blockade of Taiwan.
    Because the Chinese navy is the biggest in the world, supported by a huge airforce and missile capability, and Taiwan is right offshore of China?
    On paper the Russian naval advantage over Ukraine was much, much bigger than China's naval advantage, if any, over Taiwan and a couple of US carrier groups.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    eek said:

    Sandpit said:

    Just got our FTTP, 500Mb download is ridiculous

    You can now download all the porn from the internet in record time!
    Interestingly we are about to enter a scenario where for many people speed issues will be within the house and no longer between the house and the outside world...

    That is going to lead to a lot of customer support issues where the answer is - it's something within your house that we can't easily fix...
    I see that from the other side, installing wifi systems in large houses. People who have bought gigabit internet, but the wifi system only supports 200mbps or slower. I generally use business-class wifi hardware, rather than the cutting-edge consumer stuff. Try explaining that a Netflix stream uses 20mpbs at best, and see the look of bewilderment! Or it’s an older house, with Cat5e infrastructure so you’re only getting 100Mbps internally. People don’t understand why they don’t get gigabit wifi on their phone, when they have gigabit fibre into their house.
    Say you have five people in the house using the WiFi on different devices, with 1Gbps to the house and WiFi supporting 200Mbps. Do they each get 200Mbps, or 40Mbps?
    It depends on the wifi access points and the internal infrastructure cabling.

    If you have a simple house with one 200mbps router connected to the gigabit fibre, each device will see 200mbps. Most UK houses are like this.

    If you have a big house with several access points cabled to the router, there will be a limit per access point, as well as per device.

    If you have a mesh network, with lots of wifi repeaters using wifi themselves to talk to each other, that’s when you can get the 40mbps per device.

    Advice to anyone refurbing a house - put CAT6 data cables in every room!
    Advice to anyone looking at gigabit internet - make sure you can run a cable from the router to the computer, if you need all the capacity.
    Of course not that long ago people refurbing a house thought it was great future proofing to put CAT5E cables and USB-A plug sockets in every room.

    It will be interesting to see where we are in another 20 years time on the cabling or wireless front.
    Signalling between nuclear bomb craters with semaphore flags.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,871
    IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    This sounds eerily like Ukraine in Feb of this year. Let’s hope not


    “Taiwan is preparing air-raid shelters in underground spaces such as basement car parks, the subway system and subterranean shopping centres as fears of a Chinese attack increase. The capital, Taipei, has more than 4,600 such shelters that can accommodate 12 million people, more than four times its population. Reporting by Yimou Lee and Fabian Hamacher/Reuters
    Ann Wang / Reuters”

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/gallery/2022/aug/08/taiwan-prepares-for-life-underground-amid-china-threat-in-pictures

    They do this whenever China start to sabre rattle, just in case China is stupid enough to attempt an invasion. It's good future planning and is also good as a drill if as most likely China soon says the military exercise was a great success and go home.

    China know their ability to invade Taiwan is at best very poor, in reality they could maybe hope in taking the islands near the Chinese coast. Mind you were live in times of dictators massively over estimating the ability of their militaries.
    They will blockade, not attack

    China can cut Taiwan off from the rest of the world, then present a fait accompli. No more chips with everything, unless Taipei accepts Beijing rule. I reckon the West would fold rather than go to nuclear war over Taiwan. And then, without the west, Taiwan would reluctantly surrender. Xi gets his prize, China is unified, not a shot is fired, as with Hong Kong
    Taiwan is a highly developed state, it could survive on its own.

    Like Ukraine its residents would also fight to the death rather than accept Beijing rule
    What, be completely self sufficient indefinitely?

    Don't be ridiculous.
    I’m also unsure that Taiwanese residents would ‘fight to the death’ like Ukraine

    China would say to them: you can be like Ukraine (fight, and die, in huge numbers, see your country laid waste), or you can be like Hong Kong (lose your freedom, but keep your prosperity, almost no one gets hurt)

    Which is better? It’s a pretty tough call. We all like to think we’d be Ukraine, morally; but practically, Hong Kong is a much nicer alternative, and Chinese absorption of Taiwan does feel inevitable, long term

  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,424
    edited August 2022
    eek said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    eek said:

    Sandpit said:

    Just got our FTTP, 500Mb download is ridiculous

    You can now download all the porn from the internet in record time!
    Interestingly we are about to enter a scenario where for many people speed issues will be within the house and no longer between the house and the outside world...

    That is going to lead to a lot of customer support issues where the answer is - it's something within your house that we can't easily fix...
    I see that from the other side, installing wifi systems in large houses. People who have bought gigabit internet, but the wifi system only supports 200mbps or slower. I generally use business-class wifi hardware, rather than the cutting-edge consumer stuff. Try explaining that a Netflix stream uses 20mpbs at best, and see the look of bewilderment! Or it’s an older house, with Cat5e infrastructure so you’re only getting 100Mbps internally. People don’t understand why they don’t get gigabit wifi on their phone, when they have gigabit fibre into their house.
    Say you have five people in the house using the WiFi on different devices, with 1Gbps to the house and WiFi supporting 200Mbps. Do they each get 200Mbps, or 40Mbps?
    It depends on the wifi access points and the internal infrastructure cabling.

    If you have a simple house with one 200mbps router connected to the gigabit fibre, each device will see 200mbps. Most UK houses are like this.

    If you have a big house with several access points cabled to the router, there will be a limit per access point, as well as per device.

    If you have a mesh network, with lots of wifi repeaters using wifi themselves to talk to each other, that’s when you can get the 40mbps per device.

    Advice to anyone refurbing a house - put CAT6 data cables in every room!
    Advice to anyone looking at gigabit internet - make sure you can run a cable from the router to the computer, if you need all the capacity.
    If you are refurbing the house - make sure you have trunking (if possible) to allow the cable to be updated over the years - ethernet cable has a far shorter life expectancy than power cables.

    but the ideal wifi solution is a Mesh system with wired backends and there aren't many of those around that are any good
    Yes. I generally use the Draytek stuff:

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/DrayTek-VigorAP-Mesh-Accesspoint-AT-CH/dp/B07MFR89GQ

    Not cheap at £150 per AP and £250 for the router/firewall, but it never fails and works reliably for years. It’s business-class hardware, but if you can afford a 10,000 sq ft house, you can afford a grand and a half for the wifi installation.

    Everyone these days wants to add wireless speakers, smart thermostats etc, all of which need a solid infrastructure supporting them.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,007
    DavidL said:

    Mad Nad will presumably only accept a peerage if she is accepting that her cabinet career is over. Whilst this is something for all sane Conservatives to devoutly pray for I would not be so confident. She has been pretty chummy with Truss of late.

    Mogg wants to be a "Knight Commander" apparently. You can combine that with continuing to serve the public as an MP.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,871

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    This sounds eerily like Ukraine in Feb of this year. Let’s hope not


    “Taiwan is preparing air-raid shelters in underground spaces such as basement car parks, the subway system and subterranean shopping centres as fears of a Chinese attack increase. The capital, Taipei, has more than 4,600 such shelters that can accommodate 12 million people, more than four times its population. Reporting by Yimou Lee and Fabian Hamacher/Reuters
    Ann Wang / Reuters”

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/gallery/2022/aug/08/taiwan-prepares-for-life-underground-amid-china-threat-in-pictures

    They do this whenever China start to sabre rattle, just in case China is stupid enough to attempt an invasion. It's good future planning and is also good as a drill if as most likely China soon says the military exercise was a great success and go home.

    China know their ability to invade Taiwan is at best very poor, in reality they could maybe hope in taking the islands near the Chinese coast. Mind you were live in times of dictators massively over estimating the ability of their militaries.
    They will blockade, not attack

    China can cut Taiwan off from the rest of the world, then present a fait accompli. No more chips with everything, unless Taipei accepts Beijing rule. I reckon the West would fold rather than go to nuclear war over Taiwan. And then, without the west, Taiwan would reluctantly surrender. Xi gets his prize, China is unified, not a shot is fired, as with Hong Kong
    If Ukraine can break the Russian naval blockade by sinking a few ships with Western donated missiles then I'm struggling to see how the Chinese Navy will enforce a blockade of Taiwan.
    Because the Chinese navy is the biggest in the world, supported by a huge airforce and missile capability, and Taiwan is right offshore of China?
    On paper the Russian naval advantage over Ukraine was much, much bigger than China's naval advantage, if any, over Taiwan and a couple of US carrier groups.
    China has the biggest navy in the world, and a huge proportion of it is concentrated in and around the S China Sea


    https://news.usni.org/2021/11/03/china-has-worlds-largest-navy-with-355-ships-and-counting-says-pentagon

    The US navy, which is smaller (but more high tech) is scattered across the globe
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,119
    edited August 2022
    HYUFD said:

    Opinium

    LAB 37
    CON 34

    Best PM Truss leads SKS

    I am at a loss can any SKS fans please explain

    Starmer is a complete dud. Appallingly poor.
    David Cameron actually trailed Gordon Brown for a while when he took over as PM.

    It is the polls this time next year that will matter once the Truss bounce fades
    But if you are anti-Tory and anti-SKS, the Boris out - Truss in bounce is your opportunity to dump on the Labour leader.

    And pretty much all politicians, even the nice ones, have a streak of opportunistic shit in them. The successful ones, anyway.
  • IshmaelZ said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    eek said:

    Sandpit said:

    Just got our FTTP, 500Mb download is ridiculous

    You can now download all the porn from the internet in record time!
    Interestingly we are about to enter a scenario where for many people speed issues will be within the house and no longer between the house and the outside world...

    That is going to lead to a lot of customer support issues where the answer is - it's something within your house that we can't easily fix...
    I see that from the other side, installing wifi systems in large houses. People who have bought gigabit internet, but the wifi system only supports 200mbps or slower. I generally use business-class wifi hardware, rather than the cutting-edge consumer stuff. Try explaining that a Netflix stream uses 20mpbs at best, and see the look of bewilderment! Or it’s an older house, with Cat5e infrastructure so you’re only getting 100Mbps internally. People don’t understand why they don’t get gigabit wifi on their phone, when they have gigabit fibre into their house.
    Say you have five people in the house using the WiFi on different devices, with 1Gbps to the house and WiFi supporting 200Mbps. Do they each get 200Mbps, or 40Mbps?
    It depends on the wifi access points and the internal infrastructure cabling.

    If you have a simple house with one 200mbps router connected to the gigabit fibre, each device will see 200mbps. Most UK houses are like this.

    If you have a big house with several access points cabled to the router, there will be a limit per access point, as well as per device.

    If you have a mesh network, with lots of wifi repeaters using wifi themselves to talk to each other, that’s when you can get the 40mbps per device.

    Advice to anyone refurbing a house - put CAT6 data cables in every room!
    Advice to anyone looking at gigabit internet - make sure you can run a cable from the router to the computer, if you need all the capacity.
    Of course not that long ago people refurbing a house thought it was great future proofing to put CAT5E cables and USB-A plug sockets in every room.

    It will be interesting to see where we are in another 20 years time on the cabling or wireless front.
    Signalling between nuclear bomb craters with semaphore flags.
    post-apocalypic PB.com be like:


  • DynamoDynamo Posts: 651
    edited August 2022
    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    This sounds eerily like Ukraine in Feb of this year. Let’s hope not


    “Taiwan is preparing air-raid shelters in underground spaces such as basement car parks, the subway system and subterranean shopping centres as fears of a Chinese attack increase. The capital, Taipei, has more than 4,600 such shelters that can accommodate 12 million people, more than four times its population. Reporting by Yimou Lee and Fabian Hamacher/Reuters
    Ann Wang / Reuters”

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/gallery/2022/aug/08/taiwan-prepares-for-life-underground-amid-china-threat-in-pictures

    They do this whenever China start to sabre rattle, just in case China is stupid enough to attempt an invasion. It's good future planning and is also good as a drill if as most likely China soon says the military exercise was a great success and go home.

    China know their ability to invade Taiwan is at best very poor, in reality they could maybe hope in taking the islands near the Chinese coast. Mind you were live in times of dictators massively over estimating the ability of their militaries.
    They will blockade, not attack

    China can cut Taiwan off from the rest of the world, then present a fait accompli. No more chips with everything, unless Taipei accepts Beijing rule. I reckon the West would fold rather than go to nuclear war over Taiwan. And then, without the west, Taiwan would reluctantly surrender. Xi gets his prize, China is unified, not a shot is fired, as with Hong Kong
    Implementing and maintaining a blockade are 2 different things. Taiwan is not Ukraine, it already has modern military equipment, including a large amount of anti ship missiles which have a range of 250 miles. As well as an actual submarine fleet.
    China would also need to gain aerial supremacy which will be very difficult as they only have 2 operational aircraft carriers currently. China could implement a blockade but they would find it very very difficult to maintain, and that's before any intervention from the rest of the world.
    The rest of the world, certainly the West and India, would also impose economic sanctions on China like the West has on Russia
    Yes, trade war has two sides. Prices of semiconductors would rocket - and probably of new clothes too, just to take one example, assuming there were still some new clothes on the market and not too much of the electronic hardware involved in distibuting them wasn't needing too much maintenance. There's no way conditions as most people know them in the West would continue in the event of a renewed outbreak of the Chinese civil war with the US piling in on one side.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    This sounds eerily like Ukraine in Feb of this year. Let’s hope not


    “Taiwan is preparing air-raid shelters in underground spaces such as basement car parks, the subway system and subterranean shopping centres as fears of a Chinese attack increase. The capital, Taipei, has more than 4,600 such shelters that can accommodate 12 million people, more than four times its population. Reporting by Yimou Lee and Fabian Hamacher/Reuters
    Ann Wang / Reuters”

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/gallery/2022/aug/08/taiwan-prepares-for-life-underground-amid-china-threat-in-pictures

    They do this whenever China start to sabre rattle, just in case China is stupid enough to attempt an invasion. It's good future planning and is also good as a drill if as most likely China soon says the military exercise was a great success and go home.

    China know their ability to invade Taiwan is at best very poor, in reality they could maybe hope in taking the islands near the Chinese coast. Mind you were live in times of dictators massively over estimating the ability of their militaries.
    They will blockade, not attack

    China can cut Taiwan off from the rest of the world, then present a fait accompli. No more chips with everything, unless Taipei accepts Beijing rule. I reckon the West would fold rather than go to nuclear war over Taiwan. And then, without the west, Taiwan would reluctantly surrender. Xi gets his prize, China is unified, not a shot is fired, as with Hong Kong
    Implementing and maintaining a blockade are 2 different things. Taiwan is not Ukraine, it already has modern military equipment, including a large amount of anti ship missiles which have a range of 250 miles. As well as an actual submarine fleet.
    China would also need to gain aerial supremacy which will be very difficult as they only have 2 operational aircraft carriers currently. China could implement a blockade but they would find it very very difficult to maintain, and that's before any intervention from the rest of the world.
    The rest of the world, certainly the West and India, would also impose economic sanctions on China like the West has on Russia
    If you think Germany is dependent on Russian oil check out how dependent we are on Chinese everything else. This is not a helpful equivalence.
  • As its now available in my area I am considering ordering Starlink...

    My understanding, based entirely on anecdata, is Starlink is better than nothing but otherwise, for the moment you'd do better with a mainstream ISP which is likely faster and more reliable.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,458

    HYUFD said:

    Opinium

    LAB 37
    CON 34

    Best PM Truss leads SKS

    I am at a loss can any SKS fans please explain

    Starmer is a complete dud. Appallingly poor.
    David Cameron actually trailed Gordon Brown for a while when he took over as PM.

    It is the polls this time next year that will matter once the Truss bounce fades
    But if you are anti-Tory and anti-SKS, the Boris out - Truss is bounce is your opportunity to dump on the Labour leader.

    And pretty much all politicians, even the nice ones, have a streak of opportunistic shit in them. The successful ones, anyway.
    Yes but he has almost zero chance of being removed. It requires the nominations of at least 20% of Labour MPs for a challenger to launch a challenge.

    That is even higher than the threshold of 15% of Tory MPs needed for a VONC in the leader
  • China has been funding the United States for decades as a result of which it has over a trillion dollars in freezable US T-bills. That might be a factor.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,716
    geoffw said:

    Libdems say Go Nads!
    I say bollocks.

    You don't think Nadine will add a touch of class to the Lords, then ?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,458
    edited August 2022
    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    Mad Nad will presumably only accept a peerage if she is accepting that her cabinet career is over. Whilst this is something for all sane Conservatives to devoutly pray for I would not be so confident. She has been pretty chummy with Truss of late.

    Mogg wants to be a "Knight Commander" apparently. You can combine that with continuing to serve the public as an MP.
    Mogg will likely be in Truss' cabinet alongside Braverman, Kwarteng, Cleverly, Lewis, Coffey, Baker, Redwood etc. Maybe even Francois
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,289
    There really are no depths that Boris Johnson will not descend to in making our country and constitution a laughing stock. Nadine Dorries, a peer of the Realm. The man is a cretin.

    And speaking of cretins, Daniel Johnson wants us to all believe that Boris Johnson didn't think he was lying when he told the HoCs that he was not aware of parties. What an idiot. : https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/daniel-johnson-boris-johnson-has-done-nothing-to-warrant-this-shameful-stitch-up/ar-AA10pXGT?ocid=entnewsntp&cvid=37844e3b4ee4417083cefc44fc5f72fe
This discussion has been closed.