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An early by-election in Nadine’s seat? – politicalbetting.com

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  • Opinium

    LAB 37
    CON 34

    Best PM Truss leads SKS

    I am at a loss can any SKS fans please explain

    Starmer is a complete dud. Appallingly poor.
    Ahh that would explain it.

    SKS fans do not concur (yet)
    Hey old chap, hope you are well.

    Who should replace KS and why would they be doing better? I would like polling evidence to support your conclusion
    We have to assume that BJO would like to see the return of that crowd pleaser and (non) winner of elections and Putin apologist extraordinaire, the man affectionately known to PBers as Magic Grandpa or Mr. Thicky.

    Corbyn thinks we shouldn't be arming the Ukrainians because it is prolonging the conflict. Which of course is probably true, because if we didn't Putin would have quickly won, which perhaps Jezza would be pleased about.

    Why is Corbyn a sympathiser for a militaristic imperialist and murderer, Vladimir Putin? Corbyn fan please explain?
    Corbyn has called for Russia to withdraw its troops from Ukraine, and also called for stronger sanctions after Crimea than the Tories imposed. He might be a useful idiot but is surely not a Russian partisan.
    He's absolutely a Russia partisan.

    He's "called for Russia to withdraw its troops from Ukraine" to save face while calling for the West to stop sending munitions to Ukraine.

    If those policies were followed then Russia would roll over anywhere it wanted to do so while Corbyn would stand there saying "peace, lets talk about peace".

    The only way to stop Russia is via force, and Corbyn is utterly opposed to that.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,790
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    This sounds eerily like Ukraine in Feb of this year. Let’s hope not


    “Taiwan is preparing air-raid shelters in underground spaces such as basement car parks, the subway system and subterranean shopping centres as fears of a Chinese attack increase. The capital, Taipei, has more than 4,600 such shelters that can accommodate 12 million people, more than four times its population. Reporting by Yimou Lee and Fabian Hamacher/Reuters
    Ann Wang / Reuters”

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/gallery/2022/aug/08/taiwan-prepares-for-life-underground-amid-china-threat-in-pictures

    They do this whenever China start to sabre rattle, just in case China is stupid enough to attempt an invasion. It's good future planning and is also good as a drill if as most likely China soon says the military exercise was a great success and go home.

    China know their ability to invade Taiwan is at best very poor, in reality they could maybe hope in taking the islands near the Chinese coast. Mind you were live in times of dictators massively over estimating the ability of their militaries.
    They will blockade, not attack

    China can cut Taiwan off from the rest of the world, then present a fait accompli. No more chips with everything, unless Taipei accepts Beijing rule. I reckon the West would fold rather than go to nuclear war over Taiwan. And then, without the west, Taiwan would reluctantly surrender. Xi gets his prize, China is unified, not a shot is fired, as with Hong Kong
    If Ukraine can break the Russian naval blockade by sinking a few ships with Western donated missiles then I'm struggling to see how the Chinese Navy will enforce a blockade of Taiwan.
    Because the Chinese navy is the biggest in the world, supported by a huge airforce and missile capability, and Taiwan is right offshore of China?
    In 2014 the tonnage of the US navy was approximately 5x that of China, roughly 7m tonnes to 35m. The gap will have closed a bit since then but the US still has 11 aircraft carriers (plus 10 helicopter carriers) to China's 2. The Chinese are absolutely nowhere near the US in naval power. A commitment by the US to conventional support for Taiwan makes an invasion an impossibility.
    We've seen in Ukraine how tanks are pretty useless against current weapons.

    Ships of any tonnage are likely to be the same if in range of land.
    So the US fleets would lie to the west of Taiwan and provide aerial support from there. And these fleets, unlike the Russians, are very much not defenceless against missile attack. Meantime, any Chinese vessel that was brave enough to leave harbour is sunk. Troopships especially.

    The risks, as I see them, are massive missile attacks or the threat of a nuclear response to American intervention. Which is not exactly trivial, of course.
    A blockade os a very different matter, though.

    No one has sunk any of the Chinese boats currently sailing inside Taiwanese waters.
    No doubt the US will be gaming it all over again, but I think it very hard to predict how it might turn out, with possible consequences all the way from relatively inconsequential to global annihilation...
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,790
    DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    Mad Nad will presumably only accept a peerage if she is accepting that her cabinet career is over. Whilst this is something for all sane Conservatives to devoutly pray for I would not be so confident. She has been pretty chummy with Truss of late.

    Mogg wants to be a "Knight Commander" apparently. You can combine that with continuing to serve the public as an MP.
    Mogg will likely be in Truss' cabinet alongside Braverman, Kwarteng, Cleverly, Lewis, Coffey, Baker, Redwood etc. Maybe even Francois
    God help us all.
    A sadistic post indeed from H there. But beautifully constructed.

    Starts with a vicious slap, "Braverman", allows some respite with a few names of just medium horror, then amps up the pain again with "Coffey" and "Baker", before inflicting the almost unbearable "Redwood" and that terrible "etc".

    Then, just as the screams are subsiding, the final moment of pure gratuitous cruelty -

    "Maybe even Francois"
    Bill Cash as Attorney General as icing on the cake? Last time he was a Tory frontbencher was under IDS and he has backed Truss for leader.

    Indeed IDS may get a job too
    Christ, is he still alive??
    You think a small matter like that would bother...
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    Mad Nad will presumably only accept a peerage if she is accepting that her cabinet career is over. Whilst this is something for all sane Conservatives to devoutly pray for I would not be so confident. She has been pretty chummy with Truss of late.

    Mogg wants to be a "Knight Commander" apparently. You can combine that with continuing to serve the public as an MP.
    Mogg will likely be in Truss' cabinet alongside Braverman, Kwarteng, Cleverly, Lewis, Coffey, Baker, Redwood etc. Maybe even Francois
    Ah, a Cabinet of none of the talents.
    Truss' Cabinet will likely be the most rightwing Tory Cabinet or Shadow Cabinet since IDS was leader. Most Tory moderates will refuse to serve in it and Truss will offer barely any senior posts to Sunak supporters
    And yet you voted for Rishi as you thought Truss was too much of a Liberal? 🤔

    I expect you'll be disappointed if you're expecting hard right policies from Truss. For one thing the cost of living crisis that the war is causing means many people are demanding leftwing policies, even many Tories are demanding more interventionism.

    Plus Truss will seek to unite the party after the election just as almost all new leaders do (Boris himself being an exception as ending May's paralysis on Europe in 2019 meant taking a firm stance, a situation that no longer exists).

    It wouldn't surprise me if Hunt is offered a more senior post than either Mogg or Dorries, although Hunt may not want to give up the Chairmanship of the Health Select Committee a position he's very well suited towards.
    Hunt won't be offered a post and wouldn't take one either

    Truss has the lowest percentage of Tory MPs backing her since IDS. The only reason she will win is she dumped her liberal youth and sold her soul to the ERG and the ultra Thatcherite, hard Brexit Tory right and they will want their pound of flesh and top jobs in return
    Hunt might be offered a post and he might take one, but I do think he likes his present role so he might prefer to stay there.

    Truss hasn't sold her soul, she's not the same person as she was when she was 18 but who is? The only people who have the exact same views as they had thirty to forty years ago are people like Corbyn who are too thick to think and evolve over time.
    Her views on EU membership flipped overnight.
    Not quite overnight and so did mine, @williamglenn and @RochdalePioneers - have we all sold our souls too?

    There's quite a rational and natural progression from accepting the referendum result (even with regret) to acting to get the best from the result, to deciding that the result was the right thing to happen as you've spent years trying to get the best from it so now see the best rather than the worst.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,751
    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    This sounds eerily like Ukraine in Feb of this year. Let’s hope not


    “Taiwan is preparing air-raid shelters in underground spaces such as basement car parks, the subway system and subterranean shopping centres as fears of a Chinese attack increase. The capital, Taipei, has more than 4,600 such shelters that can accommodate 12 million people, more than four times its population. Reporting by Yimou Lee and Fabian Hamacher/Reuters
    Ann Wang / Reuters”

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/gallery/2022/aug/08/taiwan-prepares-for-life-underground-amid-china-threat-in-pictures

    They do this whenever China start to sabre rattle, just in case China is stupid enough to attempt an invasion. It's good future planning and is also good as a drill if as most likely China soon says the military exercise was a great success and go home.

    China know their ability to invade Taiwan is at best very poor, in reality they could maybe hope in taking the islands near the Chinese coast. Mind you were live in times of dictators massively over estimating the ability of their militaries.
    They will blockade, not attack

    China can cut Taiwan off from the rest of the world, then present a fait accompli. No more chips with everything, unless Taipei accepts Beijing rule. I reckon the West would fold rather than go to nuclear war over Taiwan. And then, without the west, Taiwan would reluctantly surrender. Xi gets his prize, China is unified, not a shot is fired, as with Hong Kong
    If Ukraine can break the Russian naval blockade by sinking a few ships with Western donated missiles then I'm struggling to see how the Chinese Navy will enforce a blockade of Taiwan.
    Because the Chinese navy is the biggest in the world, supported by a huge airforce and missile capability, and Taiwan is right offshore of China?
    In 2014 the tonnage of the US navy was approximately 5x that of China, roughly 7m tonnes to 35m. The gap will have closed a bit since then but the US still has 11 aircraft carriers (plus 10 helicopter carriers) to China's 2. The Chinese are absolutely nowhere near the US in naval power. A commitment by the US to conventional support for Taiwan makes an invasion an impossibility.
    We've seen in Ukraine how tanks are pretty useless against current weapons.

    Ships of any tonnage are likely to be the same if in range of land.
    So the US fleets would lie to the west of Taiwan and provide aerial support from there. And these fleets, unlike the Russians, are very much not defenceless against missile attack. Meantime, any Chinese vessel that was brave enough to leave harbour is sunk. Troopships especially.

    The risks, as I see them, are massive missile attacks or the threat of a nuclear response to American intervention. Which is not exactly trivial, of course.
    Why would they lie west of Taiwan? That's on the way to China.
    Yes, I got Confusiced about my east and west that far, err, east.
  • Nigelb said:

    DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    Mad Nad will presumably only accept a peerage if she is accepting that her cabinet career is over. Whilst this is something for all sane Conservatives to devoutly pray for I would not be so confident. She has been pretty chummy with Truss of late.

    Mogg wants to be a "Knight Commander" apparently. You can combine that with continuing to serve the public as an MP.
    Mogg will likely be in Truss' cabinet alongside Braverman, Kwarteng, Cleverly, Lewis, Coffey, Baker, Redwood etc. Maybe even Francois
    God help us all.
    A sadistic post indeed from H there. But beautifully constructed.

    Starts with a vicious slap, "Braverman", allows some respite with a few names of just medium horror, then amps up the pain again with "Coffey" and "Baker", before inflicting the almost unbearable "Redwood" and that terrible "etc".

    Then, just as the screams are subsiding, the final moment of pure gratuitous cruelty -

    "Maybe even Francois"
    Bill Cash as Attorney General as icing on the cake? Last time he was a Tory frontbencher was under IDS and he has backed Truss for leader.

    Indeed IDS may get a job too
    Christ, is he still alive??
    You think a small matter like that would bother...
    ... Michael Howard?
  • Opinium

    LAB 37
    CON 34

    Best PM Truss leads SKS

    I am at a loss can any SKS fans please explain

    Starmer is a complete dud. Appallingly poor.
    Ahh that would explain it.

    SKS fans do not concur (yet)
    Hey old chap, hope you are well.

    Who should replace KS and why would they be doing better? I would like polling evidence to support your conclusion
    We have to assume that BJO would like to see the return of that crowd pleaser and (non) winner of elections and Putin apologist extraordinaire, the man affectionately known to PBers as Magic Grandpa or Mr. Thicky.

    Corbyn thinks we shouldn't be arming the Ukrainians because it is prolonging the conflict. Which of course is probably true, because if we didn't Putin would have quickly won, which perhaps Jezza would be pleased about.

    Why is Corbyn a sympathiser for a militaristic imperialist and murderer, Vladimir Putin? Corbyn fan please explain?
    Corbyn has called for Russia to withdraw its troops from Ukraine, and also called for stronger sanctions after Crimea than the Tories imposed. He might be a useful idiot but is surely not a Russian partisan.
    He's absolutely a Russia partisan.

    He's "called for Russia to withdraw its troops from Ukraine" to save face while calling for the West to stop sending munitions to Ukraine.

    If those policies were followed then Russia would roll over anywhere it wanted to do so while Corbyn would stand there saying "peace, lets talk about peace".

    The only way to stop Russia is via force, and Corbyn is utterly opposed to that.
    That would make him a useful idiot, in the jargon.
  • DynamoDynamo Posts: 651

    Opinium

    LAB 37
    CON 34

    Best PM Truss leads SKS

    I am at a loss can any SKS fans please explain

    Starmer is a complete dud. Appallingly poor.
    Ahh that would explain it.

    SKS fans do not concur (yet)
    Hey old chap, hope you are well.

    Who should replace KS and why would they be doing better? I would like polling evidence to support your conclusion
    We have to assume that BJO would like to see the return of that crowd pleaser and (non) winner of elections and Putin apologist extraordinaire, the man affectionately known to PBers as Magic Grandpa or Mr. Thicky.

    Corbyn thinks we shouldn't be arming the Ukrainians because it is prolonging the conflict. Which of course is probably true, because if we didn't Putin would have quickly won, which perhaps Jezza would be pleased about.

    Why is Corbyn a sympathiser for a militaristic imperialist and murderer, Vladimir Putin? Corbyn fan please explain?
    Corbyn has called for Russia to withdraw its troops from Ukraine, and also called for stronger sanctions after Crimea than the Tories imposed. He might be a useful idiot but is surely not a Russian partisan.
    He's absolutely a Russia partisan.

    He's "called for Russia to withdraw its troops from Ukraine" to save face while calling for the West to stop sending munitions to Ukraine.

    If those policies were followed then Russia would roll over anywhere it wanted to do so while Corbyn would stand there saying "peace, lets talk about peace".

    The only way to stop Russia is via force, and Corbyn is utterly opposed to that.
    What's the only way to stop the Azov Regiment?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,246
    DavidL said:

    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    This sounds eerily like Ukraine in Feb of this year. Let’s hope not


    “Taiwan is preparing air-raid shelters in underground spaces such as basement car parks, the subway system and subterranean shopping centres as fears of a Chinese attack increase. The capital, Taipei, has more than 4,600 such shelters that can accommodate 12 million people, more than four times its population. Reporting by Yimou Lee and Fabian Hamacher/Reuters
    Ann Wang / Reuters”

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/gallery/2022/aug/08/taiwan-prepares-for-life-underground-amid-china-threat-in-pictures

    They do this whenever China start to sabre rattle, just in case China is stupid enough to attempt an invasion. It's good future planning and is also good as a drill if as most likely China soon says the military exercise was a great success and go home.

    China know their ability to invade Taiwan is at best very poor, in reality they could maybe hope in taking the islands near the Chinese coast. Mind you were live in times of dictators massively over estimating the ability of their militaries.
    They will blockade, not attack

    China can cut Taiwan off from the rest of the world, then present a fait accompli. No more chips with everything, unless Taipei accepts Beijing rule. I reckon the West would fold rather than go to nuclear war over Taiwan. And then, without the west, Taiwan would reluctantly surrender. Xi gets his prize, China is unified, not a shot is fired, as with Hong Kong
    If Ukraine can break the Russian naval blockade by sinking a few ships with Western donated missiles then I'm struggling to see how the Chinese Navy will enforce a blockade of Taiwan.
    Because the Chinese navy is the biggest in the world, supported by a huge airforce and missile capability, and Taiwan is right offshore of China?
    In 2014 the tonnage of the US navy was approximately 5x that of China, roughly 7m tonnes to 35m. The gap will have closed a bit since then but the US still has 11 aircraft carriers (plus 10 helicopter carriers) to China's 2. The Chinese are absolutely nowhere near the US in naval power. A commitment by the US to conventional support for Taiwan makes an invasion an impossibility.
    We've seen in Ukraine how tanks are pretty useless against current weapons.

    Ships of any tonnage are likely to be the same if in range of land.
    So the US fleets would lie to the west of Taiwan and provide aerial support from there. And these fleets, unlike the Russians, are very much not defenceless against missile attack. Meantime, any Chinese vessel that was brave enough to leave harbour is sunk. Troopships especially.

    The risks, as I see them, are massive missile attacks or the threat of a nuclear response to American intervention. Which is not exactly trivial, of course.
    Why would they lie west of Taiwan? That's on the way to China.
    Yes, I got Confusiced about my east and west that far, err, east.
    When it comes to China, for all Mao's efforts to get rid of it, there's still a lot of Confucian about.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,517

    Opinium

    LAB 37
    CON 34

    Best PM Truss leads SKS

    I am at a loss can any SKS fans please explain

    Starmer is a complete dud. Appallingly poor.
    Ahh that would explain it.

    SKS fans do not concur (yet)
    Hey old chap, hope you are well.

    Who should replace KS and why would they be doing better? I would like polling evidence to support your conclusion
    We have to assume that BJO would like to see the return of that crowd pleaser and (non) winner of elections and Putin apologist extraordinaire, the man affectionately known to PBers as Magic Grandpa or Mr. Thicky.

    Corbyn thinks we shouldn't be arming the Ukrainians because it is prolonging the conflict. Which of course is probably true, because if we didn't Putin would have quickly won, which perhaps Jezza would be pleased about.

    Why is Corbyn a sympathiser for a militaristic imperialist and murderer, Vladimir Putin? Corbyn fan please explain?
    Corbyn has called for Russia to withdraw its troops from Ukraine, and also called for stronger sanctions after Crimea than the Tories imposed. He might be a useful idiot but is surely not a Russian partisan.
    He's absolutely a Russia partisan.

    He's "called for Russia to withdraw its troops from Ukraine" to save face while calling for the West to stop sending munitions to Ukraine.

    If those policies were followed then Russia would roll over anywhere it wanted to do so while Corbyn would stand there saying "peace, lets talk about peace".

    The only way to stop Russia is via force, and Corbyn is utterly opposed to that.
    Nah - nobody who knows Corbyn would think he had the slightest interest in saving face. He's essentially a pacifist - opposed to the Russian invasion, which he sees as imperialist aggression, opposed to throwing arms into the conflict, favours tougher sanctions to force the Russians into line. But in any case he's a backbencher with zero influence on government or opposition.

    FWIW I think the war is grinding to a stalemate - both sides are claiming gains of single "settlements" (which seem to be clumps of houses, smaller than villages), and missile strikes hitting supply dumps and bridges. If nothing much happens in the autumn, General Winter will freeze the positions further.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,797
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Russians laid mines in NPP in Enerhodar, threatening to blow it up.

    "Here will be either Russian land or a desert. The nuclear power plant will be either Russian or no one's," commander of the garrison Valeriy Vasiliev said in a statement later deleted

    https://twitter.com/EuromaidanPress/status/1556594872202715139

    This is madder than Nad.
    1/2 After #Ruzzians mined #Zaporizhzhya NPP, the chief of the Russian Federation's radiation, chemical and biological defence forces told his thugs that the plant should belong to #Russia or to nobody. "And if there is the toughest order - we must fulfil it with honour," he said...
    https://twitter.com/IKlympush/status/1556595110468624385
    It should be made very clear to Putin that if anything happens there he can kiss goodbye to seeing those $300m of foreign reserves again and there'll be an oil embargo.
  • Dynamo said:

    Opinium

    LAB 37
    CON 34

    Best PM Truss leads SKS

    I am at a loss can any SKS fans please explain

    Starmer is a complete dud. Appallingly poor.
    Ahh that would explain it.

    SKS fans do not concur (yet)
    Hey old chap, hope you are well.

    Who should replace KS and why would they be doing better? I would like polling evidence to support your conclusion
    We have to assume that BJO would like to see the return of that crowd pleaser and (non) winner of elections and Putin apologist extraordinaire, the man affectionately known to PBers as Magic Grandpa or Mr. Thicky.

    Corbyn thinks we shouldn't be arming the Ukrainians because it is prolonging the conflict. Which of course is probably true, because if we didn't Putin would have quickly won, which perhaps Jezza would be pleased about.

    Why is Corbyn a sympathiser for a militaristic imperialist and murderer, Vladimir Putin? Corbyn fan please explain?
    Corbyn has called for Russia to withdraw its troops from Ukraine, and also called for stronger sanctions after Crimea than the Tories imposed. He might be a useful idiot but is surely not a Russian partisan.
    He's absolutely a Russia partisan.

    He's "called for Russia to withdraw its troops from Ukraine" to save face while calling for the West to stop sending munitions to Ukraine.

    If those policies were followed then Russia would roll over anywhere it wanted to do so while Corbyn would stand there saying "peace, lets talk about peace".

    The only way to stop Russia is via force, and Corbyn is utterly opposed to that.
    What's the only way to stop the Azov Regiment?
    'F**k off Russian troll' would be a start.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,790
    Dura_Ace said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    This sounds eerily like Ukraine in Feb of this year. Let’s hope not


    “Taiwan is preparing air-raid shelters in underground spaces such as basement car parks, the subway system and subterranean shopping centres as fears of a Chinese attack increase. The capital, Taipei, has more than 4,600 such shelters that can accommodate 12 million people, more than four times its population. Reporting by Yimou Lee and Fabian Hamacher/Reuters
    Ann Wang / Reuters”

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/gallery/2022/aug/08/taiwan-prepares-for-life-underground-amid-china-threat-in-pictures

    They do this whenever China start to sabre rattle, just in case China is stupid enough to attempt an invasion. It's good future planning and is also good as a drill if as most likely China soon says the military exercise was a great success and go home.

    China know their ability to invade Taiwan is at best very poor, in reality they could maybe hope in taking the islands near the Chinese coast. Mind you were live in times of dictators massively over estimating the ability of their militaries.
    They will blockade, not attack

    China can cut Taiwan off from the rest of the world, then present a fait accompli. No more chips with everything, unless Taipei accepts Beijing rule. I reckon the West would fold rather than go to nuclear war over Taiwan. And then, without the west, Taiwan would reluctantly surrender. Xi gets his prize, China is unified, not a shot is fired, as with Hong Kong
    If Ukraine can break the Russian naval blockade by sinking a few ships with Western donated missiles then I'm struggling to see how the Chinese Navy will enforce a blockade of Taiwan.
    Because the Chinese navy is the biggest in the world, supported by a huge airforce and missile capability, and Taiwan is right offshore of China?
    On paper the Russian naval advantage over Ukraine was much, much bigger than China's naval advantage, if any, over Taiwan and a couple of US carrier groups.
    China has the biggest navy in the world, and a huge proportion of it is concentrated in and around the S China Sea


    https://news.usni.org/2021/11/03/china-has-worlds-largest-navy-with-355-ships-and-counting-says-pentagon

    The US navy, which is smaller (but more high tech) is scattered across the globe
    True, but invasion by sea is regarded as one of the most challenging forms of invasion. The Chinese are just sabre rattling.
    They will blockade, not invade, if they do anything

    A cold American appraisal

    ‘while most American politicians have yet to recognize it, the military balance in the Taiwan Strait has been transformed in the quarter century since the last Taiwan crisis. The local balance of power has shifted decisively in China’s favor. As I explained in an article published here last year, the United States could lose a war over Taiwan. Indeed, as former Deputy Secretary of Defense Robert Work has stated publicly, in the Pentagon’s most realistic simulations and sensitive war games, in conflicts limited to Taiwan, the score is eighteen to zero, and the eighteen is not Team USA.’


    https://nationalinterest.org/feature/taiwan-thucydides-and-us-china-war-204060
    Taiwan is gone. It's just a matter of when. If the west, or what's left of it, is serious about constraining China then Australia has to be the most realistic defensible bulwark.
    Nothing is certain - as you keep reminding us about Ukraine.

    And S Korea, Japan and Indonesia might not be quite as willing to be written off as you imply.
  • Nigelb said:

    If he's President again, he'll have another go.

    https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2022/08/15/inside-the-war-between-trump-and-his-generals
    ...It turned out that the generals had rules, standards, and expertise, not blind loyalty. The President’s loud complaint to John Kelly one day was typical: “You fucking generals, why can’t you be like the German generals?”

    “Which generals?” Kelly asked.

    “The German generals in World War II,” Trump responded.

    “You do know that they tried to kill Hitler three times and almost pulled it off?” Kelly said.

    But, of course, Trump did not know that. “No, no, no, they were totally loyal to him,” the President replied. ..

    There is something very disturbing that an element of misnamed "Patriots" in America seem to think that the wrong side won WWII.
  • MISTYMISTY Posts: 1,594
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    Mad Nad will presumably only accept a peerage if she is accepting that her cabinet career is over. Whilst this is something for all sane Conservatives to devoutly pray for I would not be so confident. She has been pretty chummy with Truss of late.

    Mogg wants to be a "Knight Commander" apparently. You can combine that with continuing to serve the public as an MP.
    Mogg will likely be in Truss' cabinet alongside Braverman, Kwarteng, Cleverly, Lewis, Coffey, Baker, Redwood etc. Maybe even Francois
    Ah, a Cabinet of none of the talents.
    Truss' Cabinet will likely be the most rightwing Tory Cabinet or Shadow Cabinet since IDS was leader. Most Tory moderates will refuse to serve in it and Truss will offer barely any senior posts to Sunak supporters
    How many Tory MPs have a genuine allegiance to Sunak or anybody else, either personally or politically?

    The Tory party adopted the Chinese Communist Party response to Covid, followed by the Jeremy Corbyn response to funding it. Since then they have adopted the Liz Cheney neo-con response to Ukraine, coupled with the Ed Miliband policy on energy.

    The notion that Tory MPs have any allegiance to any philosophy or principles whatever is utterly fanciful.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,922
    This emerging split between the Taxpayer Alliance types around Truss and some of the more mainstream senior MPs, who've ended up backing her, could well be indicative of how her first months would go. https://twitter.com/HugoGye/status/1556528257876516865


    Liz Truss is probably closer to the free market think-tank nexus than any PM we've ever had: her regional pay policy was based on proposals from the Taxpayers' Alliance and Policy Exchange. U-turn was an early example of what happens when those ideas make contact with reality
    https://twitter.com/joncstone/status/1556589346333102081
  • MISTYMISTY Posts: 1,594
    Scott_xP said:

    This emerging split between the Taxpayer Alliance types around Truss and some of the more mainstream senior MPs, who've ended up backing her, could well be indicative of how her first months would go. https://twitter.com/HugoGye/status/1556528257876516865


    Liz Truss is probably closer to the free market think-tank nexus than any PM we've ever had: her regional pay policy was based on proposals from the Taxpayers' Alliance and Policy Exchange. U-turn was an early example of what happens when those ideas make contact with reality
    https://twitter.com/joncstone/status/1556589346333102081

    That policy will be back if and when Truss wins.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,622
    Nigelb said:

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    This sounds eerily like Ukraine in Feb of this year. Let’s hope not


    “Taiwan is preparing air-raid shelters in underground spaces such as basement car parks, the subway system and subterranean shopping centres as fears of a Chinese attack increase. The capital, Taipei, has more than 4,600 such shelters that can accommodate 12 million people, more than four times its population. Reporting by Yimou Lee and Fabian Hamacher/Reuters
    Ann Wang / Reuters”

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/gallery/2022/aug/08/taiwan-prepares-for-life-underground-amid-china-threat-in-pictures

    They do this whenever China start to sabre rattle, just in case China is stupid enough to attempt an invasion. It's good future planning and is also good as a drill if as most likely China soon says the military exercise was a great success and go home.

    China know their ability to invade Taiwan is at best very poor, in reality they could maybe hope in taking the islands near the Chinese coast. Mind you were live in times of dictators massively over estimating the ability of their militaries.
    They will blockade, not attack

    China can cut Taiwan off from the rest of the world, then present a fait accompli. No more chips with everything, unless Taipei accepts Beijing rule. I reckon the West would fold rather than go to nuclear war over Taiwan. And then, without the west, Taiwan would reluctantly surrender. Xi gets his prize, China is unified, not a shot is fired, as with Hong Kong
    If Ukraine can break the Russian naval blockade by sinking a few ships with Western donated missiles then I'm struggling to see how the Chinese Navy will enforce a blockade of Taiwan.
    Because the Chinese navy is the biggest in the world, supported by a huge airforce and missile capability, and Taiwan is right offshore of China?
    In 2014 the tonnage of the US navy was approximately 5x that of China, roughly 7m tonnes to 35m. The gap will have closed a bit since then but the US still has 11 aircraft carriers (plus 10 helicopter carriers) to China's 2. The Chinese are absolutely nowhere near the US in naval power. A commitment by the US to conventional support for Taiwan makes an invasion an impossibility.
    We've seen in Ukraine how tanks are pretty useless against current weapons.

    Ships of any tonnage are likely to be the same if in range of land.
    US carriers would sit behind Taiwan, of course.
    I guess we'd get to find out of those Chinese carrier killer missiles actually work.
    I was thinking more of Chinese ships trying to enforce any kind of blockade.

    Surely that won't happen though. They'll take over via political means if at all, however many decades it takes.

    Only if the Chinese dictatorship looks like collapsing might it get really dangerous.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,172
    edited August 2022
    MISTY said:

    Scott_xP said:

    This emerging split between the Taxpayer Alliance types around Truss and some of the more mainstream senior MPs, who've ended up backing her, could well be indicative of how her first months would go. https://twitter.com/HugoGye/status/1556528257876516865


    Liz Truss is probably closer to the free market think-tank nexus than any PM we've ever had: her regional pay policy was based on proposals from the Taxpayers' Alliance and Policy Exchange. U-turn was an early example of what happens when those ideas make contact with reality
    https://twitter.com/joncstone/status/1556589346333102081

    That policy will be back if and when Truss wins.
    Oh it will be back and used by Labour to win back most of the Redwall seats - even if Truss never mentions it again...

    Heck it's going to be very easy to win back Darlington as Truss wishes it to become home of lower paid civil servants... There's probably 2000 votes around here against that policy probably 3,000 by the time you add on their partners
  • MISTY said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    Mad Nad will presumably only accept a peerage if she is accepting that her cabinet career is over. Whilst this is something for all sane Conservatives to devoutly pray for I would not be so confident. She has been pretty chummy with Truss of late.

    Mogg wants to be a "Knight Commander" apparently. You can combine that with continuing to serve the public as an MP.
    Mogg will likely be in Truss' cabinet alongside Braverman, Kwarteng, Cleverly, Lewis, Coffey, Baker, Redwood etc. Maybe even Francois
    Ah, a Cabinet of none of the talents.
    Truss' Cabinet will likely be the most rightwing Tory Cabinet or Shadow Cabinet since IDS was leader. Most Tory moderates will refuse to serve in it and Truss will offer barely any senior posts to Sunak supporters
    How many Tory MPs have a genuine allegiance to Sunak or anybody else, either personally or politically?

    The Tory party adopted the Chinese Communist Party response to Covid, followed by the Jeremy Corbyn response to funding it. Since then they have adopted the Liz Cheney neo-con response to Ukraine, coupled with the Ed Miliband policy on energy.

    The notion that Tory MPs have any allegiance to any philosophy or principles whatever is utterly fanciful.
    Indeed, the only reason that Truss got a third of MPs backing her in the final round is that there was a three-way split between Sunak, Truss and Mordaunt. A few weeks ago Penny Mordaunt was vehemently opposing Truss while campaigning for herself to be PM instead.

    Take a glance at Mordaunt's Twitter now and tell me that she hates Truss and will refuse to be a part of her team because she was in the third of MPs that backed Mordaunt and wasn't in the third of MPs to back Truss.

    https://twitter.com/PennyMordaunt

    Times Radio
    "I'm choosing the path of ambition."

    @PennyMordaunt tells #TimesRadio she is not supporting Liz Truss because she's the frontrunner but because she wants "to make sure that we don't become an ordinary nation."


    Sky News
    Liz Truss 'understands our nation is at an inflection point' says Liz Truss supporter Penny Mordaunt - adding "her tax cuts are funded" and she has "a plan to get growth back into our economy".


    LBC
    'The things that don't work for us' in terms of EU regulations will 'go' under Liz Truss, says Trade Policy Minister Penny Mordaunt.


    Once the leadership campaign is over, or even before it once other candidates like Mordaunt are eliminated, people who backed other candidates fall in behind other candidates ending with the eventual winner.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,790
    Interesting if true.

    https://twitter.com/stoa1984/status/1556558847363502081
    Taiwan MoD stated that PLA aircraft and vessels have never entered territorial waters and airspace of the main island during the exercise. Makes sense. Full press conference available at: https://facebook.com/MilitarySpokesman/videos/342925874585794
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,011
    MISTY said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    Mad Nad will presumably only accept a peerage if she is accepting that her cabinet career is over. Whilst this is something for all sane Conservatives to devoutly pray for I would not be so confident. She has been pretty chummy with Truss of late.

    Mogg wants to be a "Knight Commander" apparently. You can combine that with continuing to serve the public as an MP.
    Mogg will likely be in Truss' cabinet alongside Braverman, Kwarteng, Cleverly, Lewis, Coffey, Baker, Redwood etc. Maybe even Francois
    Ah, a Cabinet of none of the talents.
    Truss' Cabinet will likely be the most rightwing Tory Cabinet or Shadow Cabinet since IDS was leader. Most Tory moderates will refuse to serve in it and Truss will offer barely any senior posts to Sunak supporters
    How many Tory MPs have a genuine allegiance to Sunak or anybody else, either personally or politically?

    The Tory party adopted the Chinese Communist Party response to Covid, followed by the Jeremy Corbyn response to funding it. Since then they have adopted the Liz Cheney neo-con response to Ukraine, coupled with the Ed Miliband policy on energy.

    The notion that Tory MPs have any allegiance to any philosophy or principles whatever is utterly fanciful.
    Well that 1st para - you've typed it out ok, and it's in English and can be understood, but other than that.
  • TheValiantTheValiant Posts: 1,874
    dixiedean said:

    DougSeal said:

    Why would he do that anyway? It’s the last thing his successor needs.

    Even if Nadine's seat is lost (and there have been suggestions that Jacob Rees-Mogg might be similarly ennobled) the government will still enjoy a majority of almost 80.
    It's a simple majority of 66 right now. Working of 75.
    I was going to say.

    People just remember 'Majority of 80' from 2019.
    The Conservatives have (as all governments do during their term) slowly been drifting from that 80.

    It's mostly forgotten, but John Major's 30 seat majority was gone by December 1996. Labour never bothered (because they correctly forsaw what was coming, and knew the UUP would support the Conservatives) but they could've done a confidence vote to test things and maybe got a March 1997 GE instead of May.
    But it wasn't worth it. Things kept getting worse so actually hanging on was the wrong thing to do for the Conservatives.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,217
    Dynamo said:

    Opinium

    LAB 37
    CON 34

    Best PM Truss leads SKS

    I am at a loss can any SKS fans please explain

    Starmer is a complete dud. Appallingly poor.
    Ahh that would explain it.

    SKS fans do not concur (yet)
    Hey old chap, hope you are well.

    Who should replace KS and why would they be doing better? I would like polling evidence to support your conclusion
    We have to assume that BJO would like to see the return of that crowd pleaser and (non) winner of elections and Putin apologist extraordinaire, the man affectionately known to PBers as Magic Grandpa or Mr. Thicky.

    Corbyn thinks we shouldn't be arming the Ukrainians because it is prolonging the conflict. Which of course is probably true, because if we didn't Putin would have quickly won, which perhaps Jezza would be pleased about.

    Why is Corbyn a sympathiser for a militaristic imperialist and murderer, Vladimir Putin? Corbyn fan please explain?
    Corbyn has called for Russia to withdraw its troops from Ukraine, and also called for stronger sanctions after Crimea than the Tories imposed. He might be a useful idiot but is surely not a Russian partisan.
    He's absolutely a Russia partisan.

    He's "called for Russia to withdraw its troops from Ukraine" to save face while calling for the West to stop sending munitions to Ukraine.

    If those policies were followed then Russia would roll over anywhere it wanted to do so while Corbyn would stand there saying "peace, lets talk about peace".

    The only way to stop Russia is via force, and Corbyn is utterly opposed to that.
    What's the only way to stop the Azov Regiment?
    The same way neo-nazis are rooted out of the British Armed Forces. With the court system, and institutions determined to enforce the law.
  • Nigelb said:

    Interesting if true.

    https://twitter.com/stoa1984/status/1556558847363502081
    Taiwan MoD stated that PLA aircraft and vessels have never entered territorial waters and airspace of the main island during the exercise. Makes sense. Full press conference available at: https://facebook.com/MilitarySpokesman/videos/342925874585794

    Good news if true.

    Xi is a monstrous authoritarian, but he doesn't [yet] seem to be totally batshit crazy and delusional unlike Putin.

    Worried about the yet though. A decade ago Putin didn't seem completely batshit crazy and delusional either.

    Leaders remaining in power too long is never healthy, and there doesn't seem to be any exit ramp for Xi.
  • On the topic of Bluetooth, quite reasonable that Apple's next AirPods will abandon it in favour of short-range Wi-Fi via AirPlay to allow Lossless audio from Apple Music.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,246

    dixiedean said:

    DougSeal said:

    Why would he do that anyway? It’s the last thing his successor needs.

    Even if Nadine's seat is lost (and there have been suggestions that Jacob Rees-Mogg might be similarly ennobled) the government will still enjoy a majority of almost 80.
    It's a simple majority of 66 right now. Working of 75.
    I was going to say.

    People just remember 'Majority of 80' from 2019.
    The Conservatives have (as all governments do during their term) slowly been drifting from that 80.

    It's mostly forgotten, but John Major's 30 seat majority was gone by December 1996. Labour never bothered (because they correctly forsaw what was coming, and knew the UUP would support the Conservatives) but they could've done a confidence vote to test things and maybe got a March 1997 GE instead of May.
    But it wasn't worth it. Things kept getting worse so actually hanging on was the wrong thing to do for the Conservatives.
    It was a 21 seat majority, not a 30 seat majority.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,872

    IshmaelZ said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    eek said:

    Sandpit said:

    Just got our FTTP, 500Mb download is ridiculous

    You can now download all the porn from the internet in record time!
    Interestingly we are about to enter a scenario where for many people speed issues will be within the house and no longer between the house and the outside world...

    That is going to lead to a lot of customer support issues where the answer is - it's something within your house that we can't easily fix...
    I see that from the other side, installing wifi systems in large houses. People who have bought gigabit internet, but the wifi system only supports 200mbps or slower. I generally use business-class wifi hardware, rather than the cutting-edge consumer stuff. Try explaining that a Netflix stream uses 20mpbs at best, and see the look of bewilderment! Or it’s an older house, with Cat5e infrastructure so you’re only getting 100Mbps internally. People don’t understand why they don’t get gigabit wifi on their phone, when they have gigabit fibre into their house.
    Say you have five people in the house using the WiFi on different devices, with 1Gbps to the house and WiFi supporting 200Mbps. Do they each get 200Mbps, or 40Mbps?
    It depends on the wifi access points and the internal infrastructure cabling.

    If you have a simple house with one 200mbps router connected to the gigabit fibre, each device will see 200mbps. Most UK houses are like this.

    If you have a big house with several access points cabled to the router, there will be a limit per access point, as well as per device.

    If you have a mesh network, with lots of wifi repeaters using wifi themselves to talk to each other, that’s when you can get the 40mbps per device.

    Advice to anyone refurbing a house - put CAT6 data cables in every room!
    Advice to anyone looking at gigabit internet - make sure you can run a cable from the router to the computer, if you need all the capacity.
    Of course not that long ago people refurbing a house thought it was great future proofing to put CAT5E cables and USB-A plug sockets in every room.

    It will be interesting to see where we are in another 20 years time on the cabling or wireless front.
    Signalling between nuclear bomb craters with semaphore flags.
    post-apocalypic PB.com be like:


    'I've ordered the new superfast, ergonomically designed flags, 10% quicker signalling I believe. Should arrive by pack horse next year, D.V.'
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,922
    MISTY said:

    That policy will be back if and when Truss wins.

    Only as a suicide note
  • MISTYMISTY Posts: 1,594

    MISTY said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    Mad Nad will presumably only accept a peerage if she is accepting that her cabinet career is over. Whilst this is something for all sane Conservatives to devoutly pray for I would not be so confident. She has been pretty chummy with Truss of late.

    Mogg wants to be a "Knight Commander" apparently. You can combine that with continuing to serve the public as an MP.
    Mogg will likely be in Truss' cabinet alongside Braverman, Kwarteng, Cleverly, Lewis, Coffey, Baker, Redwood etc. Maybe even Francois
    Ah, a Cabinet of none of the talents.
    Truss' Cabinet will likely be the most rightwing Tory Cabinet or Shadow Cabinet since IDS was leader. Most Tory moderates will refuse to serve in it and Truss will offer barely any senior posts to Sunak supporters
    How many Tory MPs have a genuine allegiance to Sunak or anybody else, either personally or politically?

    The Tory party adopted the Chinese Communist Party response to Covid, followed by the Jeremy Corbyn response to funding it. Since then they have adopted the Liz Cheney neo-con response to Ukraine, coupled with the Ed Miliband policy on energy.

    The notion that Tory MPs have any allegiance to any philosophy or principles whatever is utterly fanciful.
    Indeed, the only reason that Truss got a third of MPs backing her in the final round is that there was a three-way split between Sunak, Truss and Mordaunt. A few weeks ago Penny Mordaunt was vehemently opposing Truss while campaigning for herself to be PM instead.

    Take a glance at Mordaunt's Twitter now and tell me that she hates Truss and will refuse to be a part of her team because she was in the third of MPs that backed Mordaunt and wasn't in the third of MPs to back Truss.

    https://twitter.com/PennyMordaunt

    Times Radio
    "I'm choosing the path of ambition."

    @PennyMordaunt tells #TimesRadio she is not supporting Liz Truss because she's the frontrunner but because she wants "to make sure that we don't become an ordinary nation."


    Sky News
    Liz Truss 'understands our nation is at an inflection point' says Liz Truss supporter Penny Mordaunt - adding "her tax cuts are funded" and she has "a plan to get growth back into our economy".


    LBC
    'The things that don't work for us' in terms of EU regulations will 'go' under Liz Truss, says Trade Policy Minister Penny Mordaunt.


    Once the leadership campaign is over, or even before it once other candidates like Mordaunt are eliminated, people who backed other candidates fall in behind other candidates ending with the eventual winner.
    Its quite fun to contemplate the consternation of those MPs who are backing the wrong horse in this leadership race.

  • eek said:

    MISTY said:

    Scott_xP said:

    This emerging split between the Taxpayer Alliance types around Truss and some of the more mainstream senior MPs, who've ended up backing her, could well be indicative of how her first months would go. https://twitter.com/HugoGye/status/1556528257876516865


    Liz Truss is probably closer to the free market think-tank nexus than any PM we've ever had: her regional pay policy was based on proposals from the Taxpayers' Alliance and Policy Exchange. U-turn was an early example of what happens when those ideas make contact with reality
    https://twitter.com/joncstone/status/1556589346333102081

    That policy will be back if and when Truss wins.
    Oh it will be back and used by Labour to win back most of the Redwall seats - even if Truss never mentions it again...

    Heck it's going to be very easy to win back Darlington as Truss wishes it to become home of lower paid civil servants... There's probably 2000 votes around here against that policy probably 3,000 by the time you add on their partners
    Its a very good and sensible policy, which is why even Harriet Harman was demanding it when in office, but its also "courageous" in the Yes, Minister sense so it will never see the light of day.

    The only time it could be implemented is by a new government arriving in office with a need to sort things out. George Osborne should have done it, like he should have merged NI and Income Tax, but unfortunately it was not to be and its unlikely to ever be.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,922
    MISTY said:

    Its quite fun to contemplate the consternation of those MPs who are backing the wrong horse in this leadership race.

    When it crashes and burns they will be all over "I told you so..."
  • MISTY said:

    MISTY said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    Mad Nad will presumably only accept a peerage if she is accepting that her cabinet career is over. Whilst this is something for all sane Conservatives to devoutly pray for I would not be so confident. She has been pretty chummy with Truss of late.

    Mogg wants to be a "Knight Commander" apparently. You can combine that with continuing to serve the public as an MP.
    Mogg will likely be in Truss' cabinet alongside Braverman, Kwarteng, Cleverly, Lewis, Coffey, Baker, Redwood etc. Maybe even Francois
    Ah, a Cabinet of none of the talents.
    Truss' Cabinet will likely be the most rightwing Tory Cabinet or Shadow Cabinet since IDS was leader. Most Tory moderates will refuse to serve in it and Truss will offer barely any senior posts to Sunak supporters
    How many Tory MPs have a genuine allegiance to Sunak or anybody else, either personally or politically?

    The Tory party adopted the Chinese Communist Party response to Covid, followed by the Jeremy Corbyn response to funding it. Since then they have adopted the Liz Cheney neo-con response to Ukraine, coupled with the Ed Miliband policy on energy.

    The notion that Tory MPs have any allegiance to any philosophy or principles whatever is utterly fanciful.
    Indeed, the only reason that Truss got a third of MPs backing her in the final round is that there was a three-way split between Sunak, Truss and Mordaunt. A few weeks ago Penny Mordaunt was vehemently opposing Truss while campaigning for herself to be PM instead.

    Take a glance at Mordaunt's Twitter now and tell me that she hates Truss and will refuse to be a part of her team because she was in the third of MPs that backed Mordaunt and wasn't in the third of MPs to back Truss.

    https://twitter.com/PennyMordaunt

    Times Radio
    "I'm choosing the path of ambition."

    @PennyMordaunt tells #TimesRadio she is not supporting Liz Truss because she's the frontrunner but because she wants "to make sure that we don't become an ordinary nation."


    Sky News
    Liz Truss 'understands our nation is at an inflection point' says Liz Truss supporter Penny Mordaunt - adding "her tax cuts are funded" and she has "a plan to get growth back into our economy".


    LBC
    'The things that don't work for us' in terms of EU regulations will 'go' under Liz Truss, says Trade Policy Minister Penny Mordaunt.


    Once the leadership campaign is over, or even before it once other candidates like Mordaunt are eliminated, people who backed other candidates fall in behind other candidates ending with the eventual winner.
    Its quite fun to contemplate the consternation of those MPs who are backing the wrong horse in this leadership race.

    I doubt there's much consternation whatsoever. They're politicians, they'll do what they do.

    The second the election is over and the other horse has won they'll congratulate them and offer to serve to "unite the party".
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,922
    Latest Westminster voting intention (4-5 Aug)

    Con: 33% (-1 from 27-28 Jul)
    Lab: 37% (+2)
    Lib Dem: 11% (-2)
    Green: 8% (+1)
    Reform UK: 3% (=)
    SNP: 5% (=)

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2022/08/08/voting-intention-con-33-lab-37-4-5-aug https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1556617250001588224/photo/1
  • Scott_xP said:

    MISTY said:

    That policy will be back if and when Truss wins.

    Only as a suicide note
    Part of the problem with being the fourth Conservative PM in a row, with 12 years on the clock already.

    All the good ideas have been done- all that's left the is stuff that's batso extreme (regional pay negotiations to reduce public sector pay), or has sat in the slush pile because it can't be made to work (Uni interviews stuff).
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,602

    MISTY said:

    MISTY said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    Mad Nad will presumably only accept a peerage if she is accepting that her cabinet career is over. Whilst this is something for all sane Conservatives to devoutly pray for I would not be so confident. She has been pretty chummy with Truss of late.

    Mogg wants to be a "Knight Commander" apparently. You can combine that with continuing to serve the public as an MP.
    Mogg will likely be in Truss' cabinet alongside Braverman, Kwarteng, Cleverly, Lewis, Coffey, Baker, Redwood etc. Maybe even Francois
    Ah, a Cabinet of none of the talents.
    Truss' Cabinet will likely be the most rightwing Tory Cabinet or Shadow Cabinet since IDS was leader. Most Tory moderates will refuse to serve in it and Truss will offer barely any senior posts to Sunak supporters
    How many Tory MPs have a genuine allegiance to Sunak or anybody else, either personally or politically?

    The Tory party adopted the Chinese Communist Party response to Covid, followed by the Jeremy Corbyn response to funding it. Since then they have adopted the Liz Cheney neo-con response to Ukraine, coupled with the Ed Miliband policy on energy.

    The notion that Tory MPs have any allegiance to any philosophy or principles whatever is utterly fanciful.
    Indeed, the only reason that Truss got a third of MPs backing her in the final round is that there was a three-way split between Sunak, Truss and Mordaunt. A few weeks ago Penny Mordaunt was vehemently opposing Truss while campaigning for herself to be PM instead.

    Take a glance at Mordaunt's Twitter now and tell me that she hates Truss and will refuse to be a part of her team because she was in the third of MPs that backed Mordaunt and wasn't in the third of MPs to back Truss.

    https://twitter.com/PennyMordaunt

    Times Radio
    "I'm choosing the path of ambition."

    @PennyMordaunt tells #TimesRadio she is not supporting Liz Truss because she's the frontrunner but because she wants "to make sure that we don't become an ordinary nation."


    Sky News
    Liz Truss 'understands our nation is at an inflection point' says Liz Truss supporter Penny Mordaunt - adding "her tax cuts are funded" and she has "a plan to get growth back into our economy".


    LBC
    'The things that don't work for us' in terms of EU regulations will 'go' under Liz Truss, says Trade Policy Minister Penny Mordaunt.


    Once the leadership campaign is over, or even before it once other candidates like Mordaunt are eliminated, people who backed other candidates fall in behind other candidates ending with the eventual winner.
    Its quite fun to contemplate the consternation of those MPs who are backing the wrong horse in this leadership race.

    I doubt there's much consternation whatsoever. They're politicians, they'll do what they do.

    The second the election is over and the other horse has won they'll congratulate them and offer to serve to "unite the party".
    That's not how it played out last time.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,922

    All the good ideas have been done- all that's left the is stuff that's batso extreme (regional pay negotiations to reduce public sector pay), or has sat in the slush pile because it can't be made to work (Uni interviews stuff).

    All the good tunes have already been written...
  • Jonathan said:

    MISTY said:

    MISTY said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    Mad Nad will presumably only accept a peerage if she is accepting that her cabinet career is over. Whilst this is something for all sane Conservatives to devoutly pray for I would not be so confident. She has been pretty chummy with Truss of late.

    Mogg wants to be a "Knight Commander" apparently. You can combine that with continuing to serve the public as an MP.
    Mogg will likely be in Truss' cabinet alongside Braverman, Kwarteng, Cleverly, Lewis, Coffey, Baker, Redwood etc. Maybe even Francois
    Ah, a Cabinet of none of the talents.
    Truss' Cabinet will likely be the most rightwing Tory Cabinet or Shadow Cabinet since IDS was leader. Most Tory moderates will refuse to serve in it and Truss will offer barely any senior posts to Sunak supporters
    How many Tory MPs have a genuine allegiance to Sunak or anybody else, either personally or politically?

    The Tory party adopted the Chinese Communist Party response to Covid, followed by the Jeremy Corbyn response to funding it. Since then they have adopted the Liz Cheney neo-con response to Ukraine, coupled with the Ed Miliband policy on energy.

    The notion that Tory MPs have any allegiance to any philosophy or principles whatever is utterly fanciful.
    Indeed, the only reason that Truss got a third of MPs backing her in the final round is that there was a three-way split between Sunak, Truss and Mordaunt. A few weeks ago Penny Mordaunt was vehemently opposing Truss while campaigning for herself to be PM instead.

    Take a glance at Mordaunt's Twitter now and tell me that she hates Truss and will refuse to be a part of her team because she was in the third of MPs that backed Mordaunt and wasn't in the third of MPs to back Truss.

    https://twitter.com/PennyMordaunt

    Times Radio
    "I'm choosing the path of ambition."

    @PennyMordaunt tells #TimesRadio she is not supporting Liz Truss because she's the frontrunner but because she wants "to make sure that we don't become an ordinary nation."


    Sky News
    Liz Truss 'understands our nation is at an inflection point' says Liz Truss supporter Penny Mordaunt - adding "her tax cuts are funded" and she has "a plan to get growth back into our economy".


    LBC
    'The things that don't work for us' in terms of EU regulations will 'go' under Liz Truss, says Trade Policy Minister Penny Mordaunt.


    Once the leadership campaign is over, or even before it once other candidates like Mordaunt are eliminated, people who backed other candidates fall in behind other candidates ending with the eventual winner.
    Its quite fun to contemplate the consternation of those MPs who are backing the wrong horse in this leadership race.

    I doubt there's much consternation whatsoever. They're politicians, they'll do what they do.

    The second the election is over and the other horse has won they'll congratulate them and offer to serve to "unite the party".
    That's not how it played out last time.
    As I said last time was the exception because they were vitriolically and existentially divided on the issue of Europe which had caused May's paralysis. So the only way for the paralysis to end was for one side to vanquish the other, which happened - most actually did accept the victory for Leave but the die hards like Grieve who couldn't had to be showed the door in order to allow governing to function and end the paralysis.

    That's not the case this time. There is no vitriolic division on a matter of politics causing division, its far more squabbling between personalities than politics this time. The biggest political issue has already been resolved and nobody is proposing changing course that significantly. The arguments over tax right now are more the narcissism of small differences that can be put behind once the argument is over in a way that couldn't happen last time.

    There's no existential issues like Remain or Leave, Deal or No Deal anymore.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,831
    edited August 2022

    Nigelb said:

    Interesting if true.

    https://twitter.com/stoa1984/status/1556558847363502081
    Taiwan MoD stated that PLA aircraft and vessels have never entered territorial waters and airspace of the main island during the exercise. Makes sense. Full press conference available at: https://facebook.com/MilitarySpokesman/videos/342925874585794

    Good news if true.

    Xi is a monstrous authoritarian, but he doesn't [yet] seem to be totally batshit crazy and delusional unlike Putin.

    Worried about the yet though. A decade ago Putin didn't seem completely batshit crazy and delusional either.

    Leaders remaining in power too long is never healthy, and there doesn't seem to be any exit ramp for Xi.
    He doesn't want an exit ramp. To understand modern China you need to understand that almost above all concerns is its perceived territorial integrity. This included HK and Macau (although for obvious reasons the former was far more important to them) and continues to include the Spratlys and "Taiwan Province".

    No Chinese premier ever lost popularity by waving the "reunification" flag.

    It was put to me at the time of the HK Joint Declaration that China would take over 400-odd square miles of rubble if that is how the negotiations went.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,790
    This is quite something.
    Republican Senators killed the Medicare reform which would have made prescription drugs cheaper, along with a cap on the ridiculous prices charged for insulin.

    Ernst has two diabetic siblings.
    https://twitter.com/ddiamond/status/1556313038554267649
    In 2020, @SenJoniErnst warned about the “heartbreaking” consequences of high insulin costs and called on lawmakers to “come together” to lower them.

    Ernst voted against the insulin copay cap today.
  • Scott_xP said:

    Latest Westminster voting intention (4-5 Aug)

    Con: 33% (-1 from 27-28 Jul)
    Lab: 37% (+2)
    Lib Dem: 11% (-2)
    Green: 8% (+1)
    Reform UK: 3% (=)
    SNP: 5% (=)

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2022/08/08/voting-intention-con-33-lab-37-4-5-aug https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1556617250001588224/photo/1

    I AM SHOCKED THE LAST POLL WAS AN OUTLIER
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,905
    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    Interesting if true.

    https://twitter.com/stoa1984/status/1556558847363502081
    Taiwan MoD stated that PLA aircraft and vessels have never entered territorial waters and airspace of the main island during the exercise. Makes sense. Full press conference available at: https://facebook.com/MilitarySpokesman/videos/342925874585794

    Good news if true.

    Xi is a monstrous authoritarian, but he doesn't [yet] seem to be totally batshit crazy and delusional unlike Putin.

    Worried about the yet though. A decade ago Putin didn't seem completely batshit crazy and delusional either.

    Leaders remaining in power too long is never healthy, and there doesn't seem to be any exit ramp for Xi.
    He doesn't want an exit ramp. To understand modern China you need to understand that almost above all concerns is its perceived territorial integrity. This included HK and continues to include the Spratlys and "Taiwan Province".

    No Chinese premier ever lost popularity by waving the "reunification" flag.

    It was put to me at the time of the HK Joint Declaration that China would take over 400-odd square miles of rubble if that is how the negotiations went.
    Cf Ukraine. Putin is prepared to destroy Ukraine in order to seize it. Same mindset, same principles
  • Scott_xP said:

    Latest Westminster voting intention (4-5 Aug)

    Con: 33% (-1 from 27-28 Jul)
    Lab: 37% (+2)
    Lib Dem: 11% (-2)
    Green: 8% (+1)
    Reform UK: 3% (=)
    SNP: 5% (=)

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2022/08/08/voting-intention-con-33-lab-37-4-5-aug https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1556617250001588224/photo/1

    @bigjohnowls please explain!
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,645
    More Hosepipe bans later this week

    Not one reservoir has been built since water privatisation in 1989

    Wastage of water from leaks has tripled since 1989
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,246

    Dynamo said:

    Opinium

    LAB 37
    CON 34

    Best PM Truss leads SKS

    I am at a loss can any SKS fans please explain

    Starmer is a complete dud. Appallingly poor.
    Ahh that would explain it.

    SKS fans do not concur (yet)
    Hey old chap, hope you are well.

    Who should replace KS and why would they be doing better? I would like polling evidence to support your conclusion
    We have to assume that BJO would like to see the return of that crowd pleaser and (non) winner of elections and Putin apologist extraordinaire, the man affectionately known to PBers as Magic Grandpa or Mr. Thicky.

    Corbyn thinks we shouldn't be arming the Ukrainians because it is prolonging the conflict. Which of course is probably true, because if we didn't Putin would have quickly won, which perhaps Jezza would be pleased about.

    Why is Corbyn a sympathiser for a militaristic imperialist and murderer, Vladimir Putin? Corbyn fan please explain?
    Corbyn has called for Russia to withdraw its troops from Ukraine, and also called for stronger sanctions after Crimea than the Tories imposed. He might be a useful idiot but is surely not a Russian partisan.
    He's absolutely a Russia partisan.

    He's "called for Russia to withdraw its troops from Ukraine" to save face while calling for the West to stop sending munitions to Ukraine.

    If those policies were followed then Russia would roll over anywhere it wanted to do so while Corbyn would stand there saying "peace, lets talk about peace".

    The only way to stop Russia is via force, and Corbyn is utterly opposed to that.
    What's the only way to stop the Azov Regiment?
    Isn't it strange how so many of those who come in with unorthodox views on the illegal Russian invasion of Ukraine get so fascinated with a single regiment of maybe 2,000 personnel at its height.

    Certainly far fewer now after Mariupol.

    Versus, what - half a million to a million under arms across Ukraine?

    The thousands in the Wagner Group - how do we stop those?
    The hundreds of thousands of Russian thugs terrorising civilians in Ukraine - how do we stop those?

    Strange how they seem to get a pass, isn't it?

    There's one useful test for suspected Russian trolls: go on - condemn the illegal Russian war in Ukraine. Always a good place to start.
    The only issue with that test is they might quite honestly think it's not illegal, not a war and Ukraine is part of Russia. So they'd be perfectly happy to condemn it on a hypothetical basis.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,831
    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    Interesting if true.

    https://twitter.com/stoa1984/status/1556558847363502081
    Taiwan MoD stated that PLA aircraft and vessels have never entered territorial waters and airspace of the main island during the exercise. Makes sense. Full press conference available at: https://facebook.com/MilitarySpokesman/videos/342925874585794

    Good news if true.

    Xi is a monstrous authoritarian, but he doesn't [yet] seem to be totally batshit crazy and delusional unlike Putin.

    Worried about the yet though. A decade ago Putin didn't seem completely batshit crazy and delusional either.

    Leaders remaining in power too long is never healthy, and there doesn't seem to be any exit ramp for Xi.
    He doesn't want an exit ramp. To understand modern China you need to understand that almost above all concerns is its perceived territorial integrity. This included HK and continues to include the Spratlys and "Taiwan Province".

    No Chinese premier ever lost popularity by waving the "reunification" flag.

    It was put to me at the time of the HK Joint Declaration that China would take over 400-odd square miles of rubble if that is how the negotiations went.
    Cf Ukraine. Putin is prepared to destroy Ukraine in order to seize it. Same mindset, same principles
    I weep when I see what Xi has done to China after the Deng reforms but it is vital to understand what motivates him and in this instance he has inherited and is championing a prominent and popular strand of Chinese thinking.
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    edited August 2022

    On the topic of Bluetooth, quite reasonable that Apple's next AirPods will abandon it in favour of short-range Wi-Fi via AirPlay to allow Lossless audio from Apple Music.

    Not convinced tbh.

    The problem is power consumption. AirPods have tiny batteries and Wi-Fi draws a fair bit more power than Bluetooth, AIUI.

    Also Apple like to keep things proprietary. I thought their current AirPods used proprietary wireless? If they can figure out a way to do lossless without rinsing the battery, i’m sure they’ll do it.

    Btw, there’s interesting new “Bluetooth LE audio” spec that should be working it’s way into products fairly soon;

    https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/07/whats-bluetooth-le-audio-explaining-the-latest-wireless-tech-standard/?amp=1

    Very interesting to those of us with hearing aids, especially. Great accessibility potential. Will hopefully replace those terrible hearing loops, in short order.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,011
    kinabalu said:

    MISTY said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    Mad Nad will presumably only accept a peerage if she is accepting that her cabinet career is over. Whilst this is something for all sane Conservatives to devoutly pray for I would not be so confident. She has been pretty chummy with Truss of late.

    Mogg wants to be a "Knight Commander" apparently. You can combine that with continuing to serve the public as an MP.
    Mogg will likely be in Truss' cabinet alongside Braverman, Kwarteng, Cleverly, Lewis, Coffey, Baker, Redwood etc. Maybe even Francois
    Ah, a Cabinet of none of the talents.
    Truss' Cabinet will likely be the most rightwing Tory Cabinet or Shadow Cabinet since IDS was leader. Most Tory moderates will refuse to serve in it and Truss will offer barely any senior posts to Sunak supporters
    How many Tory MPs have a genuine allegiance to Sunak or anybody else, either personally or politically?

    The Tory party adopted the Chinese Communist Party response to Covid, followed by the Jeremy Corbyn response to funding it. Since then they have adopted the Liz Cheney neo-con response to Ukraine, coupled with the Ed Miliband policy on energy.

    The notion that Tory MPs have any allegiance to any philosophy or principles whatever is utterly fanciful.
    Well that 1st para - you've typed it out ok, and it's in English and can be understood, but other than that.
    Sorry, I meant the SECOND para. Nothing wrong with the 1st para at all. Your 1st para is just a totally ok para.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,645

    Scott_xP said:

    Latest Westminster voting intention (4-5 Aug)

    Con: 33% (-1 from 27-28 Jul)
    Lab: 37% (+2)
    Lib Dem: 11% (-2)
    Green: 8% (+1)
    Reform UK: 3% (=)
    SNP: 5% (=)

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2022/08/08/voting-intention-con-33-lab-37-4-5-aug https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1556617250001588224/photo/1

    @bigjohnowls please explain!
    A 4% lead in the worst financial crisis since ww2 is shit

    Hope that explains

    Peak SKS was 15pt lead 4 weeks ago as pointed out by me on 11/7/22

    11th July 2022 is peak SKS its all downhill from that Poll that gave LAB a 15% lead

    LAB: 43% (+2)
    CON: 28% (-4)
    LDEM: 12% (+1)
    GRN: 4% (+1)
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,831

    More Hosepipe bans later this week

    Not one reservoir has been built since water privatisation in 1989

    Wastage of water from leaks has tripled since 1989

    Bloke on the radio saying reservoirs have already been built where reservoirs would be best placed so it would be costly and inconvenient to build more. By far the most cost-effective approach would be to spend money on stemming the leaks which are at something like a couple of billion litres per day if I remember/heard him correctly.

    He said it would mean the public ask why should we save water when the water companies aren't saving water, which I thought was a v good point.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,421

    On the topic of Bluetooth, quite reasonable that Apple's next AirPods will abandon it in favour of short-range Wi-Fi via AirPlay to allow Lossless audio from Apple Music.

    I remember using Bluetooth in the 1990s when it was first introduced.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,326

    More Hosepipe bans later this week

    Not one reservoir has been built since water privatisation in 1989

    Wastage of water from leaks has tripled since 1989

    Yes, and we've got a lot more raw sewage in our rivers and seas.
    Clean, plentiful water is a public good. It should be in public ownership.
  • TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    Interesting if true.

    https://twitter.com/stoa1984/status/1556558847363502081
    Taiwan MoD stated that PLA aircraft and vessels have never entered territorial waters and airspace of the main island during the exercise. Makes sense. Full press conference available at: https://facebook.com/MilitarySpokesman/videos/342925874585794

    Good news if true.

    Xi is a monstrous authoritarian, but he doesn't [yet] seem to be totally batshit crazy and delusional unlike Putin.

    Worried about the yet though. A decade ago Putin didn't seem completely batshit crazy and delusional either.

    Leaders remaining in power too long is never healthy, and there doesn't seem to be any exit ramp for Xi.
    He doesn't want an exit ramp. To understand modern China you need to understand that almost above all concerns is its perceived territorial integrity. This included HK and continues to include the Spratlys and "Taiwan Province".

    No Chinese premier ever lost popularity by waving the "reunification" flag.

    It was put to me at the time of the HK Joint Declaration that China would take over 400-odd square miles of rubble if that is how the negotiations went.
    Cf Ukraine. Putin is prepared to destroy Ukraine in order to seize it. Same mindset, same principles
    I weep when I see what Xi has done to China after the Deng reforms but it is vital to understand what motivates him and in this instance he has inherited and is championing a prominent and popular strand of Chinese thinking.
    You can wave the "reunification" flag without actually doing anything about it for centuries. That's what Spain has done with regards to Gibraltar and plenty of others.

    Have a convenient flag to wave, but don't actually do much about it. That Xi has been a draconian authoritarian who has seized power to himself and ended the organised system of effective term limits and transfers of power to others has nothing to do with the flag which is just an excuse.
  • More Hosepipe bans later this week

    Not one reservoir has been built since water privatisation in 1989

    Wastage of water from leaks has tripled since 1989

    Yes, and we've got a lot more raw sewage in our rivers and seas.
    Clean, plentiful water is a public good. It should be in public ownership.
    [Citation needed]

    The rivers are much cleaner than they used to be.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,645

    Scott_xP said:

    Latest Westminster voting intention (4-5 Aug)

    Con: 33% (-1 from 27-28 Jul)
    Lab: 37% (+2)
    Lib Dem: 11% (-2)
    Green: 8% (+1)
    Reform UK: 3% (=)
    SNP: 5% (=)

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2022/08/08/voting-intention-con-33-lab-37-4-5-aug https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1556617250001588224/photo/1

    I AM SHOCKED THE LAST POLL WAS AN OUTLIER
    Hurrah a 4% lead!!

    FFS its shocking in the context of the worst COL crisis in yonks

    BTW where even is SKS when he gets back on the airwaves Tory lead nailed on!!
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,831

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    Interesting if true.

    https://twitter.com/stoa1984/status/1556558847363502081
    Taiwan MoD stated that PLA aircraft and vessels have never entered territorial waters and airspace of the main island during the exercise. Makes sense. Full press conference available at: https://facebook.com/MilitarySpokesman/videos/342925874585794

    Good news if true.

    Xi is a monstrous authoritarian, but he doesn't [yet] seem to be totally batshit crazy and delusional unlike Putin.

    Worried about the yet though. A decade ago Putin didn't seem completely batshit crazy and delusional either.

    Leaders remaining in power too long is never healthy, and there doesn't seem to be any exit ramp for Xi.
    He doesn't want an exit ramp. To understand modern China you need to understand that almost above all concerns is its perceived territorial integrity. This included HK and continues to include the Spratlys and "Taiwan Province".

    No Chinese premier ever lost popularity by waving the "reunification" flag.

    It was put to me at the time of the HK Joint Declaration that China would take over 400-odd square miles of rubble if that is how the negotiations went.
    Cf Ukraine. Putin is prepared to destroy Ukraine in order to seize it. Same mindset, same principles
    I weep when I see what Xi has done to China after the Deng reforms but it is vital to understand what motivates him and in this instance he has inherited and is championing a prominent and popular strand of Chinese thinking.
    You can wave the "reunification" flag without actually doing anything about it for centuries. That's what Spain has done with regards to Gibraltar and plenty of others.

    Have a convenient flag to wave, but don't actually do much about it. That Xi has been a draconian authoritarian who has seized power to himself and ended the organised system of effective term limits and transfers of power to others has nothing to do with the flag which is just an excuse.
    Yes and no. Xi seems to want to turn the clock back further than Jacob Rees-Mogg. For decades after 1949 China adopted the approach you describe and people just got on with it and especially after 1978 it was an obligatory but largely meaningless rallying call. They acted on HK because there was a legal case.

    A manifestation of Xi's authoritarianism is however to use China's current status to move its territorial claims forward. He is opening the sore and as I said, it is not simply a token gesture as there is a real and, to the Chinese, legitimate claim to Taiwan.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,645

    More Hosepipe bans later this week

    Not one reservoir has been built since water privatisation in 1989

    Wastage of water from leaks has tripled since 1989

    Yes, and we've got a lot more raw sewage in our rivers and seas.
    Clean, plentiful water is a public good. It should be in public ownership.
    Only other country to privatise water Chile??
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,872
    Nigelb said:

    This is quite something.
    Republican Senators killed the Medicare reform which would have made prescription drugs cheaper, along with a cap on the ridiculous prices charged for insulin.

    Ernst has two diabetic siblings.
    https://twitter.com/ddiamond/status/1556313038554267649
    In 2020, @SenJoniErnst warned about the “heartbreaking” consequences of high insulin costs and called on lawmakers to “come together” to lower them.

    Ernst voted against the insulin copay cap today.

    There's a lot of competition but that convinces me that there is no damage that the GOP wouldn't inflict to advance their cock eyed cause. Insulin was one of the medical miracles of the C20th and these fckrs will happily piss all over it.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,246

    More Hosepipe bans later this week

    Not one reservoir has been built since water privatisation in 1989

    Wastage of water from leaks has tripled since 1989

    Yes, and we've got a lot more raw sewage in our rivers and seas.
    Clean, plentiful water is a public good. It should be in public ownership.
    Only other country to privatise water Chile??
    Several in South America, including Colombia rather than Chile. Also the Phillipines.

    France also has at least a partly privately owned water network AIUI.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Scott_xP said:

    Latest Westminster voting intention (4-5 Aug)

    Con: 33% (-1 from 27-28 Jul)
    Lab: 37% (+2)
    Lib Dem: 11% (-2)
    Green: 8% (+1)
    Reform UK: 3% (=)
    SNP: 5% (=)

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2022/08/08/voting-intention-con-33-lab-37-4-5-aug https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1556617250001588224/photo/1

    I AM SHOCKED THE LAST POLL WAS AN OUTLIER
    Hurrah a 4% lead!!

    FFS its shocking in the context of the worst COL crisis in yonks

    BTW where even is SKS when he gets back on the airwaves Tory lead nailed on!!
    In 1995, so about where we are relative to next GE, Blair had a 41 point LEAD. Against this lot that would be 51.

    SKS vote share less than TB lead.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,326

    More Hosepipe bans later this week

    Not one reservoir has been built since water privatisation in 1989

    Wastage of water from leaks has tripled since 1989

    Yes, and we've got a lot more raw sewage in our rivers and seas.
    Clean, plentiful water is a public good. It should be in public ownership.
    [Citation needed]

    The rivers are much cleaner than they used to be.
    Citations provided:

    Read the Chair's foreword in this government report:

    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/water-and-sewerage-companies-in-england-environmental-performance-report-2021/water-and-sewerage-companies-in-england-environmental-performance-report-2021

    and

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/sewage-in-water-a-growing-public-health-problem

    Raw sewage from storm overflows and continuous discharge of waste containing viable organisms from sewage treatment works is an increasing problem. This is a serious public health issue for government and regulators and it is clear that the water companies are not doing enough. The public health dangers are in addition to the ecological and environmental impact which forms the basis for much regulation.
  • ping said:

    On the topic of Bluetooth, quite reasonable that Apple's next AirPods will abandon it in favour of short-range Wi-Fi via AirPlay to allow Lossless audio from Apple Music.

    Not convinced tbh.

    The problem is power consumption. AirPods have tiny batteries and Wi-Fi draws a fair bit more power than Bluetooth, AIUI.

    Also Apple like to keep things proprietary. I thought their current AirPods used proprietary wireless? If they can figure out a way to do lossless without rinsing the battery, i’m sure they’ll do it.

    Btw, there’s interesting new “Bluetooth LE audio” spec that should be working it’s way into products fairly soon;

    https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/07/whats-bluetooth-le-audio-explaining-the-latest-wireless-tech-standard/?amp=1

    Very interesting to those of us with hearing aids, especially. Great accessibility potential. Will hopefully replace those terrible hearing loops, in short order.
    Bluetooth doesn't support lossless and Apple has made Lossless a selling point of Apple Music. I think they will do it.

    I really like Apple Music, I switched from Spotify last year. AirPlay 2 is fantastic with my Sonos.
  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 5,001
    TOPPING said:

    More Hosepipe bans later this week

    Not one reservoir has been built since water privatisation in 1989

    Wastage of water from leaks has tripled since 1989

    Bloke on the radio saying reservoirs have already been built where reservoirs would be best placed so it would be costly and inconvenient to build more. By far the most cost-effective approach would be to spend money on stemming the leaks which are at something like a couple of billion litres per day if I remember/heard him correctly.

    He said it would mean the public ask why should we save water when the water companies aren't saving water, which I thought was a v good point.
    Another key thing to do is transfer links.

    We very very rarely have an all-region drought. Even now, Cumbria is getting rained on a lot. Not surprising; they have six times the annual rainfall that the Thames Valley gets.

    We don't have a water shortage issue on this island; we have a water distribution problem.

    Unfortunately, transfer links tend to be less commercially attractive to the water companies - Thames Water tried to kick the proposed Severn-Thames link into the (very) long grass out past 2080, because the moment it comes online, it makes their proposed mega-reservoir in the South East useless (transfer system gets more water, from outside the water-stressed area, far cheaper, far quicker to build, far less disruptive to anyone, far less environmental impact, would withstand droughts way beyond the level of a totally-Thames-dependent facility) - but doesn't provide the commercial benefits to them.

    They've now been compelled to bring it into around 2050, but not any further forwards. Not unless forced to.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,645
    Full extent of NHS dentistry shortage revealed by far-reaching BBC research

    Nine in 10 NHS dental practices across the UK are not accepting new adult patients for treatment under the health service, a BBC investigation has found.

    Neo Liberal Britain in action
  • Scott_xP said:

    Latest Westminster voting intention (4-5 Aug)

    Con: 33% (-1 from 27-28 Jul)
    Lab: 37% (+2)
    Lib Dem: 11% (-2)
    Green: 8% (+1)
    Reform UK: 3% (=)
    SNP: 5% (=)

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2022/08/08/voting-intention-con-33-lab-37-4-5-aug https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1556617250001588224/photo/1

    I AM SHOCKED THE LAST POLL WAS AN OUTLIER
    Hurrah a 4% lead!!

    FFS its shocking in the context of the worst COL crisis in yonks

    BTW where even is SKS when he gets back on the airwaves Tory lead nailed on!!
    Hey old chap.

    Who should take over and why would they do better? With polling evidence please.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,246
    edited August 2022

    TOPPING said:

    More Hosepipe bans later this week

    Not one reservoir has been built since water privatisation in 1989

    Wastage of water from leaks has tripled since 1989

    Bloke on the radio saying reservoirs have already been built where reservoirs would be best placed so it would be costly and inconvenient to build more. By far the most cost-effective approach would be to spend money on stemming the leaks which are at something like a couple of billion litres per day if I remember/heard him correctly.

    He said it would mean the public ask why should we save water when the water companies aren't saving water, which I thought was a v good point.
    Another key thing to do is transfer links.

    We very very rarely have an all-region drought. Even now, Cumbria is getting rained on a lot. Not surprising; they have six times the annual rainfall that the Thames Valley gets.

    We don't have a water shortage issue on this island; we have a water distribution problem.

    Unfortunately, transfer links tend to be less commercially attractive to the water companies - Thames Water tried to kick the proposed Severn-Thames link into the (very) long grass out past 2080, because the moment it comes online, it makes their proposed mega-reservoir in the South East useless (transfer system gets more water, from outside the water-stressed area, far cheaper, far quicker to build, far less disruptive to anyone, far less environmental impact, would withstand droughts way beyond the level of a totally-Thames-dependent facility) - but doesn't provide the commercial benefits to them.

    They've now been compelled to bring it into around 2050, but not any further forwards. Not unless forced to.
    Why not just reinstate the Severn and Thames canal?

    (Edit - no I'm not being serious, I do know how canals work!)
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,575
    IshmaelZ said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Latest Westminster voting intention (4-5 Aug)

    Con: 33% (-1 from 27-28 Jul)
    Lab: 37% (+2)
    Lib Dem: 11% (-2)
    Green: 8% (+1)
    Reform UK: 3% (=)
    SNP: 5% (=)

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2022/08/08/voting-intention-con-33-lab-37-4-5-aug https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1556617250001588224/photo/1

    I AM SHOCKED THE LAST POLL WAS AN OUTLIER
    Hurrah a 4% lead!!

    FFS its shocking in the context of the worst COL crisis in yonks

    BTW where even is SKS when he gets back on the airwaves Tory lead nailed on!!
    In 1995, so about where we are relative to next GE, Blair had a 41 point LEAD. Against this lot that would be 51.

    SKS vote share less than TB lead.
    1995 was 16 years into a Tory government, we are now only 12 years into a Tory government
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,645

    Scott_xP said:

    Latest Westminster voting intention (4-5 Aug)

    Con: 33% (-1 from 27-28 Jul)
    Lab: 37% (+2)
    Lib Dem: 11% (-2)
    Green: 8% (+1)
    Reform UK: 3% (=)
    SNP: 5% (=)

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2022/08/08/voting-intention-con-33-lab-37-4-5-aug https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1556617250001588224/photo/1

    I AM SHOCKED THE LAST POLL WAS AN OUTLIER
    Hurrah a 4% lead!!

    FFS its shocking in the context of the worst COL crisis in yonks

    BTW where even is SKS when he gets back on the airwaves Tory lead nailed on!!
    Hey old chap.

    Who should take over and why would they do better? With polling evidence please.
    Not my problem mate

    SKS has peaked and its all downhill from 11/7/22 Poll (evidence every single Poll since then)

    What do you attribute the 15% to 4& lead cut to?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,455

    As its now available in my area I am considering ordering Starlink...

    My understanding, based entirely on anecdata, is Starlink is better than nothing but otherwise, for the moment you'd do better with a mainstream ISP which is likely faster and more reliable.
    To get Starlink speeds, said mainstream ISPs are 15x more expensive to install and 2x more expensive per month...
    Yep, rural broadband is exactly what the low-level satellite constellations were designed to do. It’s much cheaper than digging up long roads to service few homes. It seems that you get something in the region of 100mbps down, and 10mbps up.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,289

    Full extent of NHS dentistry shortage revealed by far-reaching BBC research

    Nine in 10 NHS dental practices across the UK are not accepting new adult patients for treatment under the health service, a BBC investigation has found.

    Neo Liberal Britain in action

    Nope, the protectionist and restrictive practices of the British Dental Association that are very similar to the BMA in putting their member's interests way way ahead of patients.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,575
    Sunak would create a unit to review every EU law still on the statute book in his first 100 days

    https://twitter.com/RishiSunak/status/1556590394170818560?s=20&t=HMvPks_wwH1VJThxkIJN8w
  • More Hosepipe bans later this week

    Not one reservoir has been built since water privatisation in 1989

    Wastage of water from leaks has tripled since 1989

    Yes, and we've got a lot more raw sewage in our rivers and seas.
    Clean, plentiful water is a public good. It should be in public ownership.
    [Citation needed]

    The rivers are much cleaner than they used to be.
    Citations provided:

    Read the Chair's foreword in this government report:

    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/water-and-sewerage-companies-in-england-environmental-performance-report-2021/water-and-sewerage-companies-in-england-environmental-performance-report-2021

    and

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/sewage-in-water-a-growing-public-health-problem

    Raw sewage from storm overflows and continuous discharge of waste containing viable organisms from sewage treatment works is an increasing problem. This is a serious public health issue for government and regulators and it is clear that the water companies are not doing enough. The public health dangers are in addition to the ecological and environmental impact which forms the basis for much regulation.
    the Chair's forward says that the performance in one year was the worst since 2013, not since 1989.

    The rivers are far, far cleaner than they were pre-privatisation, nobody disputes that. If you do, find a source citation comparing against pre-1989 figures not since 2013.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,455

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    Mad Nad will presumably only accept a peerage if she is accepting that her cabinet career is over. Whilst this is something for all sane Conservatives to devoutly pray for I would not be so confident. She has been pretty chummy with Truss of late.

    Mogg wants to be a "Knight Commander" apparently. You can combine that with continuing to serve the public as an MP.
    Mogg will likely be in Truss' cabinet alongside Braverman, Kwarteng, Cleverly, Lewis, Coffey, Baker, Redwood etc. Maybe even Francois
    Ah, a Cabinet of none of the talents.
    Truss' Cabinet will likely be the most rightwing Tory Cabinet or Shadow Cabinet since IDS was leader. Most Tory moderates will refuse to serve in it and Truss will offer barely any senior posts to Sunak supporters
    And yet you voted for Rishi as you thought Truss was too much of a Liberal? 🤔

    I expect you'll be disappointed if you're expecting hard right policies from Truss. For one thing the cost of living crisis that the war is causing means many people are demanding leftwing policies, even many Tories are demanding more interventionism.

    Plus Truss will seek to unite the party after the election just as almost all new leaders do (Boris himself being an exception as ending May's paralysis on Europe in 2019 meant taking a firm stance, a situation that no longer exists).

    It wouldn't surprise me if Hunt is offered a more senior post than either Mogg or Dorries, although Hunt may not want to give up the Chairmanship of the Health Select Committee a position he's very well suited towards.
    Hunt won't be offered a post and wouldn't take one either

    Truss has the lowest percentage of Tory MPs backing her since IDS. The only reason she will win is she dumped her liberal youth and sold her soul to the ERG and the ultra Thatcherite, hard Brexit Tory right and they will want their pound of flesh and top jobs in return
    Hunt might be offered a post and he might take one, but I do think he likes his present role so he might prefer to stay there.

    Truss hasn't sold her soul, she's not the same person as she was when she was 18 but who is? The only people who have the exact same views as they had thirty to forty years ago are people like Corbyn who are too thick to think and evolve over time.
    Her views on EU membership flipped overnight.
    Her views flipped to being accepting of, and wanting to take advantage of, the result of the vote, rather than trying to overturn it like some of her colleagues.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,011

    Jonathan said:

    MISTY said:

    MISTY said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    Mad Nad will presumably only accept a peerage if she is accepting that her cabinet career is over. Whilst this is something for all sane Conservatives to devoutly pray for I would not be so confident. She has been pretty chummy with Truss of late.

    Mogg wants to be a "Knight Commander" apparently. You can combine that with continuing to serve the public as an MP.
    Mogg will likely be in Truss' cabinet alongside Braverman, Kwarteng, Cleverly, Lewis, Coffey, Baker, Redwood etc. Maybe even Francois
    Ah, a Cabinet of none of the talents.
    Truss' Cabinet will likely be the most rightwing Tory Cabinet or Shadow Cabinet since IDS was leader. Most Tory moderates will refuse to serve in it and Truss will offer barely any senior posts to Sunak supporters
    How many Tory MPs have a genuine allegiance to Sunak or anybody else, either personally or politically?

    The Tory party adopted the Chinese Communist Party response to Covid, followed by the Jeremy Corbyn response to funding it. Since then they have adopted the Liz Cheney neo-con response to Ukraine, coupled with the Ed Miliband policy on energy.

    The notion that Tory MPs have any allegiance to any philosophy or principles whatever is utterly fanciful.
    Indeed, the only reason that Truss got a third of MPs backing her in the final round is that there was a three-way split between Sunak, Truss and Mordaunt. A few weeks ago Penny Mordaunt was vehemently opposing Truss while campaigning for herself to be PM instead.

    Take a glance at Mordaunt's Twitter now and tell me that she hates Truss and will refuse to be a part of her team because she was in the third of MPs that backed Mordaunt and wasn't in the third of MPs to back Truss.

    https://twitter.com/PennyMordaunt

    Times Radio
    "I'm choosing the path of ambition."

    @PennyMordaunt tells #TimesRadio she is not supporting Liz Truss because she's the frontrunner but because she wants "to make sure that we don't become an ordinary nation."


    Sky News
    Liz Truss 'understands our nation is at an inflection point' says Liz Truss supporter Penny Mordaunt - adding "her tax cuts are funded" and she has "a plan to get growth back into our economy".


    LBC
    'The things that don't work for us' in terms of EU regulations will 'go' under Liz Truss, says Trade Policy Minister Penny Mordaunt.


    Once the leadership campaign is over, or even before it once other candidates like Mordaunt are eliminated, people who backed other candidates fall in behind other candidates ending with the eventual winner.
    Its quite fun to contemplate the consternation of those MPs who are backing the wrong horse in this leadership race.

    I doubt there's much consternation whatsoever. They're politicians, they'll do what they do.

    The second the election is over and the other horse has won they'll congratulate them and offer to serve to "unite the party".
    That's not how it played out last time.
    As I said last time was the exception because they were vitriolically and existentially divided on the issue of Europe which had caused May's paralysis. So the only way for the paralysis to end was for one side to vanquish the other, which happened - most actually did accept the victory for Leave but the die hards like Grieve who couldn't had to be showed the door in order to allow governing to function and end the paralysis.

    That's not the case this time. There is no vitriolic division on a matter of politics causing division, its far more squabbling between personalities than politics this time. The biggest political issue has already been resolved and nobody is proposing changing course that significantly. The arguments over tax right now are more the narcissism of small differences that can be put behind once the argument is over in a way that couldn't happen last time.

    There's no existential issues like Remain or Leave, Deal or No Deal anymore.
    Ken Clarke, who accepted the result without quibble and voted consistently for every different flavour of Brexit put in front of him, was also "shown the door".
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,645
    edited August 2022
    IshmaelZ said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Latest Westminster voting intention (4-5 Aug)

    Con: 33% (-1 from 27-28 Jul)
    Lab: 37% (+2)
    Lib Dem: 11% (-2)
    Green: 8% (+1)
    Reform UK: 3% (=)
    SNP: 5% (=)

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2022/08/08/voting-intention-con-33-lab-37-4-5-aug https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1556617250001588224/photo/1

    I AM SHOCKED THE LAST POLL WAS AN OUTLIER
    Hurrah a 4% lead!!

    FFS its shocking in the context of the worst COL crisis in yonks

    BTW where even is SKS when he gets back on the airwaves Tory lead nailed on!!
    In 1995, so about where we are relative to next GE, Blair had a 41 point LEAD. Against this lot that would be 51.

    SKS vote share less than TB lead.
    CHB and Sunil aint gonna believe it even after SKS defeat in GE2024

    SKS is no TB
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,289

    Scott_xP said:

    Latest Westminster voting intention (4-5 Aug)

    Con: 33% (-1 from 27-28 Jul)
    Lab: 37% (+2)
    Lib Dem: 11% (-2)
    Green: 8% (+1)
    Reform UK: 3% (=)
    SNP: 5% (=)

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2022/08/08/voting-intention-con-33-lab-37-4-5-aug https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1556617250001588224/photo/1

    I AM SHOCKED THE LAST POLL WAS AN OUTLIER
    Hurrah a 4% lead!!

    FFS its shocking in the context of the worst COL crisis in yonks

    BTW where even is SKS when he gets back on the airwaves Tory lead nailed on!!
    Hey old chap.

    Who should take over and why would they do better? With polling evidence please.
    He would like Putin's number 1 apologist back, so that rather than focussing on the cost of living crisis, we can be having debates on Palestine and why we should be rolling over and allowing Putin to grab any territory he wants.
  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 5,001
    ydoethur said:

    TOPPING said:

    More Hosepipe bans later this week

    Not one reservoir has been built since water privatisation in 1989

    Wastage of water from leaks has tripled since 1989

    Bloke on the radio saying reservoirs have already been built where reservoirs would be best placed so it would be costly and inconvenient to build more. By far the most cost-effective approach would be to spend money on stemming the leaks which are at something like a couple of billion litres per day if I remember/heard him correctly.

    He said it would mean the public ask why should we save water when the water companies aren't saving water, which I thought was a v good point.
    Another key thing to do is transfer links.

    We very very rarely have an all-region drought. Even now, Cumbria is getting rained on a lot. Not surprising; they have six times the annual rainfall that the Thames Valley gets.

    We don't have a water shortage issue on this island; we have a water distribution problem.

    Unfortunately, transfer links tend to be less commercially attractive to the water companies - Thames Water tried to kick the proposed Severn-Thames link into the (very) long grass out past 2080, because the moment it comes online, it makes their proposed mega-reservoir in the South East useless (transfer system gets more water, from outside the water-stressed area, far cheaper, far quicker to build, far less disruptive to anyone, far less environmental impact, would withstand droughts way beyond the level of a totally-Thames-dependent facility) - but doesn't provide the commercial benefits to them.

    They've now been compelled to bring it into around 2050, but not any further forwards. Not unless forced to.
    Why not just reinstate the Severn and Thames canal?

    (Edit - no I'm not being serious, I do know how canals work!)
    Believe it or not, the Cotswolds Canal option is one of those under consideration for STT. It would require some pumping, and be a little more expensive than a straightforward pipeline, but the externality benefits would be considerable.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,751
    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    Interesting if true.

    https://twitter.com/stoa1984/status/1556558847363502081
    Taiwan MoD stated that PLA aircraft and vessels have never entered territorial waters and airspace of the main island during the exercise. Makes sense. Full press conference available at: https://facebook.com/MilitarySpokesman/videos/342925874585794

    Good news if true.

    Xi is a monstrous authoritarian, but he doesn't [yet] seem to be totally batshit crazy and delusional unlike Putin.

    Worried about the yet though. A decade ago Putin didn't seem completely batshit crazy and delusional either.

    Leaders remaining in power too long is never healthy, and there doesn't seem to be any exit ramp for Xi.
    He doesn't want an exit ramp. To understand modern China you need to understand that almost above all concerns is its perceived territorial integrity. This included HK and continues to include the Spratlys and "Taiwan Province".

    No Chinese premier ever lost popularity by waving the "reunification" flag.

    It was put to me at the time of the HK Joint Declaration that China would take over 400-odd square miles of rubble if that is how the negotiations went.
    Cf Ukraine. Putin is prepared to destroy Ukraine in order to seize it. Same mindset, same principles
    I weep when I see what Xi has done to China after the Deng reforms but it is vital to understand what motivates him and in this instance he has inherited and is championing a prominent and popular strand of Chinese thinking.
    We are a couple of generations on now but the brutality and death toll of the Chinese civil war should not be forgotten and is certainly not by the Chinese. According to Wikki there were, between 1927 and 1949, between 1.8 and 3.5m deaths, the huge range being indicative of the utter chaos caused. In 1949, despite considerable US assistance, the Nationalists were driven out of mainland China and retreated to Taiwan. The current leadership of Taiwan may have relatively little in common with those Nationalists but it is not hard to see why the Chinese regard this as unfinished business.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,455
    Nigelb said:

    Russian Duma member goes on prime time TV to tell Germany “We will come and kill you all”.
    https://twitter.com/JayinKyiv/status/1556171970521219074

    Maybe one day Sholz will understand that, no matter how much he bends over for Russia, the gas is getting cut off anyway this winter.
  • kinabalu said:

    Jonathan said:

    MISTY said:

    MISTY said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    Mad Nad will presumably only accept a peerage if she is accepting that her cabinet career is over. Whilst this is something for all sane Conservatives to devoutly pray for I would not be so confident. She has been pretty chummy with Truss of late.

    Mogg wants to be a "Knight Commander" apparently. You can combine that with continuing to serve the public as an MP.
    Mogg will likely be in Truss' cabinet alongside Braverman, Kwarteng, Cleverly, Lewis, Coffey, Baker, Redwood etc. Maybe even Francois
    Ah, a Cabinet of none of the talents.
    Truss' Cabinet will likely be the most rightwing Tory Cabinet or Shadow Cabinet since IDS was leader. Most Tory moderates will refuse to serve in it and Truss will offer barely any senior posts to Sunak supporters
    How many Tory MPs have a genuine allegiance to Sunak or anybody else, either personally or politically?

    The Tory party adopted the Chinese Communist Party response to Covid, followed by the Jeremy Corbyn response to funding it. Since then they have adopted the Liz Cheney neo-con response to Ukraine, coupled with the Ed Miliband policy on energy.

    The notion that Tory MPs have any allegiance to any philosophy or principles whatever is utterly fanciful.
    Indeed, the only reason that Truss got a third of MPs backing her in the final round is that there was a three-way split between Sunak, Truss and Mordaunt. A few weeks ago Penny Mordaunt was vehemently opposing Truss while campaigning for herself to be PM instead.

    Take a glance at Mordaunt's Twitter now and tell me that she hates Truss and will refuse to be a part of her team because she was in the third of MPs that backed Mordaunt and wasn't in the third of MPs to back Truss.

    https://twitter.com/PennyMordaunt

    Times Radio
    "I'm choosing the path of ambition."

    @PennyMordaunt tells #TimesRadio she is not supporting Liz Truss because she's the frontrunner but because she wants "to make sure that we don't become an ordinary nation."


    Sky News
    Liz Truss 'understands our nation is at an inflection point' says Liz Truss supporter Penny Mordaunt - adding "her tax cuts are funded" and she has "a plan to get growth back into our economy".


    LBC
    'The things that don't work for us' in terms of EU regulations will 'go' under Liz Truss, says Trade Policy Minister Penny Mordaunt.


    Once the leadership campaign is over, or even before it once other candidates like Mordaunt are eliminated, people who backed other candidates fall in behind other candidates ending with the eventual winner.
    Its quite fun to contemplate the consternation of those MPs who are backing the wrong horse in this leadership race.

    I doubt there's much consternation whatsoever. They're politicians, they'll do what they do.

    The second the election is over and the other horse has won they'll congratulate them and offer to serve to "unite the party".
    That's not how it played out last time.
    As I said last time was the exception because they were vitriolically and existentially divided on the issue of Europe which had caused May's paralysis. So the only way for the paralysis to end was for one side to vanquish the other, which happened - most actually did accept the victory for Leave but the die hards like Grieve who couldn't had to be showed the door in order to allow governing to function and end the paralysis.

    That's not the case this time. There is no vitriolic division on a matter of politics causing division, its far more squabbling between personalities than politics this time. The biggest political issue has already been resolved and nobody is proposing changing course that significantly. The arguments over tax right now are more the narcissism of small differences that can be put behind once the argument is over in a way that couldn't happen last time.

    There's no existential issues like Remain or Leave, Deal or No Deal anymore.
    Ken Clarke, who accepted the result without quibble and voted consistently for every different flavour of Brexit put in front of him, was also "shown the door".
    He voted against the Government on a confidence motion to not extend Article 50, so no he didn't accept the result without quibble.

    He served in a Cabinet that pulled the same trick of making it a confidence motion to pass Maastricht, so he can hardly complain when turnabout is fair play.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,751
    HYUFD said:

    Sunak would create a unit to review every EU law still on the statute book in his first 100 days

    https://twitter.com/RishiSunak/status/1556590394170818560?s=20&t=HMvPks_wwH1VJThxkIJN8w

    FFS, what on earth is the point? We can rightly focus on areas where laws are thought to be harmful but to review a law just because it originated in the EU? I thought he was presenting as the sane one in this contest?
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    HYUFD said:

    Sunak would create a unit to review every EU law still on the statute book in his first 100 days

    https://twitter.com/RishiSunak/status/1556590394170818560?s=20&t=HMvPks_wwH1VJThxkIJN8w

    In his first 100 days Sunak would create a unit to review every EU law still on the statute book is less ambiguous

    Not his problem, but price hike day is 24 days into the new premiership, and a bit more pressing (if you count poor people)
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,011

    IshmaelZ said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Latest Westminster voting intention (4-5 Aug)

    Con: 33% (-1 from 27-28 Jul)
    Lab: 37% (+2)
    Lib Dem: 11% (-2)
    Green: 8% (+1)
    Reform UK: 3% (=)
    SNP: 5% (=)

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2022/08/08/voting-intention-con-33-lab-37-4-5-aug https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1556617250001588224/photo/1

    I AM SHOCKED THE LAST POLL WAS AN OUTLIER
    Hurrah a 4% lead!!

    FFS its shocking in the context of the worst COL crisis in yonks

    BTW where even is SKS when he gets back on the airwaves Tory lead nailed on!!
    In 1995, so about where we are relative to next GE, Blair had a 41 point LEAD. Against this lot that would be 51.

    SKS vote share less than TB lead.
    CHB and Sunil aint gonna believe it even after SKS defeat in GE2024

    SKS is no TB
    You seem to have got yourself into a place of rooting for a right wing Tory government because of not wanting to be proved wrong about SKS electability.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,645

    Scott_xP said:

    Latest Westminster voting intention (4-5 Aug)

    Con: 33% (-1 from 27-28 Jul)
    Lab: 37% (+2)
    Lib Dem: 11% (-2)
    Green: 8% (+1)
    Reform UK: 3% (=)
    SNP: 5% (=)

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2022/08/08/voting-intention-con-33-lab-37-4-5-aug https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1556617250001588224/photo/1

    I AM SHOCKED THE LAST POLL WAS AN OUTLIER
    Hurrah a 4% lead!!

    FFS its shocking in the context of the worst COL crisis in yonks

    BTW where even is SKS when he gets back on the airwaves Tory lead nailed on!!
    Hey old chap.

    Who should take over and why would they do better? With polling evidence please.
    He would like Putin's number 1 apologist back, so that rather than focussing on the cost of living crisis, we can be having debates on Palestine and why we should be rolling over and allowing Putin to grab any territory he wants.
    JC consistently critical of Putin

    Only Mr Thicky would think otherwise
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,751
    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Russian Duma member goes on prime time TV to tell Germany “We will come and kill you all”.
    https://twitter.com/JayinKyiv/status/1556171970521219074

    Maybe one day Sholz will understand that, no matter how much he bends over for Russia, the gas is getting cut off anyway this winter.
    He might reply, well to even get to us you have to go through Poland. After Ukraine, good luck with that.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,831
    DavidL said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    Interesting if true.

    https://twitter.com/stoa1984/status/1556558847363502081
    Taiwan MoD stated that PLA aircraft and vessels have never entered territorial waters and airspace of the main island during the exercise. Makes sense. Full press conference available at: https://facebook.com/MilitarySpokesman/videos/342925874585794

    Good news if true.

    Xi is a monstrous authoritarian, but he doesn't [yet] seem to be totally batshit crazy and delusional unlike Putin.

    Worried about the yet though. A decade ago Putin didn't seem completely batshit crazy and delusional either.

    Leaders remaining in power too long is never healthy, and there doesn't seem to be any exit ramp for Xi.
    He doesn't want an exit ramp. To understand modern China you need to understand that almost above all concerns is its perceived territorial integrity. This included HK and continues to include the Spratlys and "Taiwan Province".

    No Chinese premier ever lost popularity by waving the "reunification" flag.

    It was put to me at the time of the HK Joint Declaration that China would take over 400-odd square miles of rubble if that is how the negotiations went.
    Cf Ukraine. Putin is prepared to destroy Ukraine in order to seize it. Same mindset, same principles
    I weep when I see what Xi has done to China after the Deng reforms but it is vital to understand what motivates him and in this instance he has inherited and is championing a prominent and popular strand of Chinese thinking.
    We are a couple of generations on now but the brutality and death toll of the Chinese civil war should not be forgotten and is certainly not by the Chinese. According to Wikki there were, between 1927 and 1949, between 1.8 and 3.5m deaths, the huge range being indicative of the utter chaos caused. In 1949, despite considerable US assistance, the Nationalists were driven out of mainland China and retreated to Taiwan. The current leadership of Taiwan may have relatively little in common with those Nationalists but it is not hard to see why the Chinese regard this as unfinished business.
    Indeed and the view towards the Japanese for in their mind (and indeed to objective observers) similarly egregious acts is close behind if not neck and neck in the national consciousness.
  • DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sunak would create a unit to review every EU law still on the statute book in his first 100 days

    https://twitter.com/RishiSunak/status/1556590394170818560?s=20&t=HMvPks_wwH1VJThxkIJN8w

    FFS, what on earth is the point? We can rightly focus on areas where laws are thought to be harmful but to review a law just because it originated in the EU? I thought he was presenting as the sane one in this contest?
    Its utterly meaningless gesture politics. You can't possibly have a sincere and meaningful review of all laws within 100 days, so it simply won't happen and will be a waste of time and money. You can barely properly review a solitary law in that time, let alone all laws.
  • Scott_xP said:

    Latest Westminster voting intention (4-5 Aug)

    Con: 33% (-1 from 27-28 Jul)
    Lab: 37% (+2)
    Lib Dem: 11% (-2)
    Green: 8% (+1)
    Reform UK: 3% (=)
    SNP: 5% (=)

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2022/08/08/voting-intention-con-33-lab-37-4-5-aug https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1556617250001588224/photo/1

    I AM SHOCKED THE LAST POLL WAS AN OUTLIER
    Hurrah a 4% lead!!

    FFS its shocking in the context of the worst COL crisis in yonks

    BTW where even is SKS when he gets back on the airwaves Tory lead nailed on!!
    Hey old chap.

    Who should take over and why would they do better? With polling evidence please.
    He would like Putin's number 1 apologist back, so that rather than focussing on the cost of living crisis, we can be having debates on Palestine and why we should be rolling over and allowing Putin to grab any territory he wants.
    JC consistently critical of Putin

    Only Mr Thicky would think otherwise
    "Stop sending arms to Putin's enemies, now lets talk about peace" is hardly consistently critical of Putin. Only Mr Thicky would think that would suffice.
  • kinabalu said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Latest Westminster voting intention (4-5 Aug)

    Con: 33% (-1 from 27-28 Jul)
    Lab: 37% (+2)
    Lib Dem: 11% (-2)
    Green: 8% (+1)
    Reform UK: 3% (=)
    SNP: 5% (=)

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2022/08/08/voting-intention-con-33-lab-37-4-5-aug https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1556617250001588224/photo/1

    I AM SHOCKED THE LAST POLL WAS AN OUTLIER
    Hurrah a 4% lead!!

    FFS its shocking in the context of the worst COL crisis in yonks

    BTW where even is SKS when he gets back on the airwaves Tory lead nailed on!!
    In 1995, so about where we are relative to next GE, Blair had a 41 point LEAD. Against this lot that would be 51.

    SKS vote share less than TB lead.
    CHB and Sunil aint gonna believe it even after SKS defeat in GE2024

    SKS is no TB
    You seem to have got yourself into a place of rooting for a right wing Tory government because of not wanting to be proved wrong about SKS electability.
    @bigjohnowls = Tory sleeper agent
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,645

    Scott_xP said:

    Latest Westminster voting intention (4-5 Aug)

    Con: 33% (-1 from 27-28 Jul)
    Lab: 37% (+2)
    Lib Dem: 11% (-2)
    Green: 8% (+1)
    Reform UK: 3% (=)
    SNP: 5% (=)

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2022/08/08/voting-intention-con-33-lab-37-4-5-aug https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1556617250001588224/photo/1

    I AM SHOCKED THE LAST POLL WAS AN OUTLIER
    Hurrah a 4% lead!!

    FFS its shocking in the context of the worst COL crisis in yonks

    BTW where even is SKS when he gets back on the airwaves Tory lead nailed on!!
    Hey old chap.

    Who should take over and why would they do better? With polling evidence please.
    He would like Putin's number 1 apologist back, so that rather than focussing on the cost of living crisis, we can be having debates on Palestine and why we should be rolling over and allowing Putin to grab any territory he wants.
    JC consistently critical of Putin

    Only Mr Thicky would think otherwise
    https://www.middleeasteye.net/opinion/russia-ukraine-war-jeremy-corbyn-right-putin-oligarchs
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,831

    DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sunak would create a unit to review every EU law still on the statute book in his first 100 days

    https://twitter.com/RishiSunak/status/1556590394170818560?s=20&t=HMvPks_wwH1VJThxkIJN8w

    FFS, what on earth is the point? We can rightly focus on areas where laws are thought to be harmful but to review a law just because it originated in the EU? I thought he was presenting as the sane one in this contest?
    Its utterly meaningless gesture politics. You can't possibly have a sincere and meaningful review of all laws within 100 days, so it simply won't happen and will be a waste of time and money. You can barely properly review a solitary law in that time, let alone all laws.
    It's because everyone has forgotten that he is the leaver. He is reminding them.

    Reminds me, meanwhile, of this:

    https://www.theonion.com/n-korea-wondering-what-it-has-to-do-to-attract-u-s-mi-1819566737
  • HYUFD said:

    Sunak would create a unit to review every EU law still on the statute book in his first 100 days

    https://twitter.com/RishiSunak/status/1556590394170818560?s=20&t=HMvPks_wwH1VJThxkIJN8w

    Didn't you vote to REMAIN?
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,645
    kinabalu said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Latest Westminster voting intention (4-5 Aug)

    Con: 33% (-1 from 27-28 Jul)
    Lab: 37% (+2)
    Lib Dem: 11% (-2)
    Green: 8% (+1)
    Reform UK: 3% (=)
    SNP: 5% (=)

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2022/08/08/voting-intention-con-33-lab-37-4-5-aug https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1556617250001588224/photo/1

    I AM SHOCKED THE LAST POLL WAS AN OUTLIER
    Hurrah a 4% lead!!

    FFS its shocking in the context of the worst COL crisis in yonks

    BTW where even is SKS when he gets back on the airwaves Tory lead nailed on!!
    In 1995, so about where we are relative to next GE, Blair had a 41 point LEAD. Against this lot that would be 51.

    SKS vote share less than TB lead.
    CHB and Sunil aint gonna believe it even after SKS defeat in GE2024

    SKS is no TB
    You seem to have got yourself into a place of rooting for a right wing Tory government because of not wanting to be proved wrong about SKS electability.
    kinabalu said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Latest Westminster voting intention (4-5 Aug)

    Con: 33% (-1 from 27-28 Jul)
    Lab: 37% (+2)
    Lib Dem: 11% (-2)
    Green: 8% (+1)
    Reform UK: 3% (=)
    SNP: 5% (=)

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2022/08/08/voting-intention-con-33-lab-37-4-5-aug https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1556617250001588224/photo/1

    I AM SHOCKED THE LAST POLL WAS AN OUTLIER
    Hurrah a 4% lead!!

    FFS its shocking in the context of the worst COL crisis in yonks

    BTW where even is SKS when he gets back on the airwaves Tory lead nailed on!!
    In 1995, so about where we are relative to next GE, Blair had a 41 point LEAD. Against this lot that would be 51.

    SKS vote share less than TB lead.
    CHB and Sunil aint gonna believe it even after SKS defeat in GE2024

    SKS is no TB
    You seem to have got yourself into a place of rooting for a right wing Tory government because of not wanting to be proved wrong about SKS electability.
    I am not in favour of either Tory Party winning

    Nowt in it for me
  • Scott_xP said:

    Latest Westminster voting intention (4-5 Aug)

    Con: 33% (-1 from 27-28 Jul)
    Lab: 37% (+2)
    Lib Dem: 11% (-2)
    Green: 8% (+1)
    Reform UK: 3% (=)
    SNP: 5% (=)

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2022/08/08/voting-intention-con-33-lab-37-4-5-aug https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1556617250001588224/photo/1

    I AM SHOCKED THE LAST POLL WAS AN OUTLIER
    Hurrah a 4% lead!!

    FFS its shocking in the context of the worst COL crisis in yonks

    BTW where even is SKS when he gets back on the airwaves Tory lead nailed on!!
    Hey old chap.

    Who should take over and why would they do better? With polling evidence please.
    Not my problem mate

    SKS has peaked and its all downhill from 11/7/22 Poll (evidence every single Poll since then)

    What do you attribute the 15% to 4& lead cut to?
    So nobody then. If you think KS is so rubbish you should have somebody in mind.

    Nobody else would be doing better.
  • kinabalu said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Latest Westminster voting intention (4-5 Aug)

    Con: 33% (-1 from 27-28 Jul)
    Lab: 37% (+2)
    Lib Dem: 11% (-2)
    Green: 8% (+1)
    Reform UK: 3% (=)
    SNP: 5% (=)

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2022/08/08/voting-intention-con-33-lab-37-4-5-aug https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1556617250001588224/photo/1

    I AM SHOCKED THE LAST POLL WAS AN OUTLIER
    Hurrah a 4% lead!!

    FFS its shocking in the context of the worst COL crisis in yonks

    BTW where even is SKS when he gets back on the airwaves Tory lead nailed on!!
    In 1995, so about where we are relative to next GE, Blair had a 41 point LEAD. Against this lot that would be 51.

    SKS vote share less than TB lead.
    CHB and Sunil aint gonna believe it even after SKS defeat in GE2024

    SKS is no TB
    You seem to have got yourself into a place of rooting for a right wing Tory government because of not wanting to be proved wrong about SKS electability.
    kinabalu said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Latest Westminster voting intention (4-5 Aug)

    Con: 33% (-1 from 27-28 Jul)
    Lab: 37% (+2)
    Lib Dem: 11% (-2)
    Green: 8% (+1)
    Reform UK: 3% (=)
    SNP: 5% (=)

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2022/08/08/voting-intention-con-33-lab-37-4-5-aug https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1556617250001588224/photo/1

    I AM SHOCKED THE LAST POLL WAS AN OUTLIER
    Hurrah a 4% lead!!

    FFS its shocking in the context of the worst COL crisis in yonks

    BTW where even is SKS when he gets back on the airwaves Tory lead nailed on!!
    In 1995, so about where we are relative to next GE, Blair had a 41 point LEAD. Against this lot that would be 51.

    SKS vote share less than TB lead.
    CHB and Sunil aint gonna believe it even after SKS defeat in GE2024

    SKS is no TB
    You seem to have got yourself into a place of rooting for a right wing Tory government because of not wanting to be proved wrong about SKS electability.
    I am not in favour of either Tory Party winning

    Nowt in it for me
    Didn't you support Johnson like a month ago?
  • Starlink is rubbish. FTTP will be with you soon
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,289

    More Hosepipe bans later this week

    Not one reservoir has been built since water privatisation in 1989

    Wastage of water from leaks has tripled since 1989

    Yes, and we've got a lot more raw sewage in our rivers and seas.
    Clean, plentiful water is a public good. It should be in public ownership.
    [Citation needed]

    The rivers are much cleaner than they used to be.
    Citations provided:

    Read the Chair's foreword in this government report:

    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/water-and-sewerage-companies-in-england-environmental-performance-report-2021/water-and-sewerage-companies-in-england-environmental-performance-report-2021

    and

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/sewage-in-water-a-growing-public-health-problem

    Raw sewage from storm overflows and continuous discharge of waste containing viable organisms from sewage treatment works is an increasing problem. This is a serious public health issue for government and regulators and it is clear that the water companies are not doing enough. The public health dangers are in addition to the ecological and environmental impact which forms the basis for much regulation.
    the Chair's forward says that the performance in one year was the worst since 2013, not since 1989.

    The rivers are far, far cleaner than they were pre-privatisation, nobody disputes that. If you do, find a source citation comparing against pre-1989 figures not since 2013.
    It always amuses me that there is this belief on the left that if something is in "public ownership" (i.e. subsidised by the taxpayer) it will be better, when there really is no quantitively or qualitative data to support this. Why will an organisation be better if it is run by bureaucrats from Whitehall and where there are endless areas of opportunity for individuals to be inefficient? Who would seriously want to hark back to the days of British Telecom when you had to wait six months to get an extra line put in and you were forced to have one standard type of phone, or British Rail FFS? I can only conclude that the real reason that the left is so in love with nationalisation is because the brothers can then fully hold our lives to ransom by endless strikes
This discussion has been closed.