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An early by-election in Nadine’s seat? – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,163
edited August 2022 in General
imageAn early by-election in Nadine’s seat? – politicalbetting.com

In recent weeks there have been a number of reports that the Culture Secretary, Nadine Dorries, will be made a peer in Johnson’s resignation honours. This would mean that the first electoral test for the Truss administration could be a by-election defence in Mid Bedfordshire where Nadine had a huge majority last time.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,191
    Con Hold.

    Tory voters will be willing to give Truss the benefit of the doubt at a BE.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,923
    edited August 2022
    This would be likely PM Truss' first by election. If she gets a bounce the Tories could hold it even if the LDs surge but if the Tories lose such a safe seat her honeymoon would be over before it has barely begun
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957
    fpt
    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Oh go on @Scott_P, educate me.

    Look at it this way.

    How much of the kit you bought in the 90's would still be part of your system today (notwithstanding the voltage issues) ?
    Richer Sounds always did decent kit, and it lasts well. My Marantz amp from there must be 25 years old.

    There is good new music now, despite what grandpa Leon was saying last night while showing his slides. I am a fan of Molchat Doma for example.

    https://youtu.be/s1ATTIQrmIQ
    I’m not just emotionally and artistically correct, I can scientifically prove I’m correct. Music is decreasing in complexity and variety, songs are more formulaic, lyrics are more repetitive and mundane. Music is getting worse

    https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/is-pop-music-evolving-or-is-it-just-getting-louder/


    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/science-proves-pop-music-has-actually-gotten-worse-8173368/

    https://arxiv.org/pdf/1907.04292.pdf

    https://www.mic.com/articles/107896/scientists-finally-prove-why-pop-music-all-sounds-the-same


    https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0115255
    You old git.

    On my playlist:

    Mazzy Star
    Quantic
    Tash Sultana
    DJariium
    Husky Loops
    Paul Hartnoll
    Finley Quaye
    Young Fathers
    Dave Thomas Junior
    Light Asylum
    Nitin Sawhney
    Elbow
    Unkle
    Kerli
    Wankelmut
    Leftfield
    X Ambassadors
    Silver Mt Zion
    FKA Twigs
    Covenant
    Shawn Lee's Ping Pong Orchestra
    The Allergies
    Michel Kiwanuka
    Dennis Lloyd
    Robert Levon Been
    Maribou State
    The Cinematic Orchestra
    Molotov Jukebox

    Something there for everything. You might think you recognise some of it/it's derivative of course you might but then welcome to pop music for the past 70 years.

    And that's to exclude the superstars - eg Kanye, Rihanna, Adele, Lizzo, etc, or, say, Grime.

    You need to get out more, take the Chris de Burgh tape off loop and start shazaming your way to find some new music.
  • ClippPClippP Posts: 1,904
    Pulpstar said:

    Con Hold. Tory voters will be willing to give Truss the benefit of the doubt at a BE.

    Maybe not. The vast majority of the electorate had no say in the election of Truss.
  • Gah - fell into the new thread hole again. FPT:
    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Oh go on @Scott_P, educate me.

    Look at it this way.

    How much of the kit you bought in the 90's would still be part of your system today (notwithstanding the voltage issues) ?
    Richer Sounds always did decent kit, and it lasts well. My Marantz amp from there must be 25 years old.

    There is good new music now, despite what grandpa Leon was saying last night while showing his slides. I am a fan of Molchat Doma for example.

    https://youtu.be/s1ATTIQrmIQ
    I’m not just emotionally and artistically correct, I can scientifically prove I’m correct. Music is decreasing in complexity and variety, songs are more formulaic, lyrics are more repetitive and mundane. Music is getting worse

    https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/is-pop-music-evolving-or-is-it-just-getting-louder/


    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/science-proves-pop-music-has-actually-gotten-worse-8173368/

    https://arxiv.org/pdf/1907.04292.pdf

    https://www.mic.com/articles/107896/scientists-finally-prove-why-pop-music-all-sounds-the-same


    https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0115255
    Oh man, there's a ton of excellent new music out there, you just gotta find it. Most pop music is gash, always has been. Most people want simple music. Pop music has always been music getting simpler. Simpler chords, simpler structures. Rock evolved from 12 bar blues, which is about as simple as you can get. Tomorrow Never Knows, one of the most musically adventurous things the Beatles ever did, is one chord - C - like a lot of Indian music is.

    The best pop music is made by skint kids with no musical training on the cheapest equipment. In the Big Band era that was kids with guitars, and that lasted until something cheaper and easier to learn than guitars came along - computers. Now it's kids with a counterfeit copy of Ableton or Cubase, or whatever, on a laptop. No it's not my cup of tea, but I'm not the audience. The kids love it.

    But there's loads of good, often complex, new music out there. Here are some recent-ish new releases, all come highly recommended:

    Skin by Joy Crookes - smoky voiced young Londoner doing soul//funk/blues type stuff

    Dancing Dimensions by Ural Thomas and the Pain - old skool soul guy finally getting some recognition

    My Finest Work Yet by Andrew Bird - classically trained American indie type railing against Trump, but beautifully

    Yn Rio by Carwyn Ellis - lush Tropicalia with Welsh lyrics, an unlikely combination but makes a great summer album

    The Overload by Yard Act - nominated for the Mercury this year, excellent post-punk indie from a Leeds-based band

    INTROSPECTIO by Mario Batkovic - what this guy does with an accordion will blow your mind

    Having pretty much the entirety of recorded music at your fingertips can be quite overwhelming, but there are gems out there.

    And if you're still thirsty for new - to you - music, you could always go back to old stuff that you never heard when it came out. I just discovered One Year by Colin Blunstone, who was the singer with the Zombies. Great solo album, came out in '71, could've been recorded last week it sounds so fresh.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    edited August 2022
    TOPPING said:

    fpt

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Oh go on @Scott_P, educate me.

    Look at it this way.

    How much of the kit you bought in the 90's would still be part of your system today (notwithstanding the voltage issues) ?
    Richer Sounds always did decent kit, and it lasts well. My Marantz amp from there must be 25 years old.

    There is good new music now, despite what grandpa Leon was saying last night while showing his slides. I am a fan of Molchat Doma for example.

    https://youtu.be/s1ATTIQrmIQ
    I’m not just emotionally and artistically correct, I can scientifically prove I’m correct. Music is decreasing in complexity and variety, songs are more formulaic, lyrics are more repetitive and mundane. Music is getting worse

    https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/is-pop-music-evolving-or-is-it-just-getting-louder/


    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/science-proves-pop-music-has-actually-gotten-worse-8173368/

    https://arxiv.org/pdf/1907.04292.pdf

    https://www.mic.com/articles/107896/scientists-finally-prove-why-pop-music-all-sounds-the-same


    https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0115255
    You old git.

    On my playlist:

    Mazzy Star
    Quantic
    Tash Sultana
    DJariium
    Husky Loops
    Paul Hartnoll
    Finley Quaye
    Young Fathers
    Dave Thomas Junior
    Light Asylum
    Nitin Sawhney
    Elbow
    Unkle
    Kerli
    Wankelmut
    Leftfield
    X Ambassadors
    Silver Mt Zion
    FKA Twigs
    Covenant
    Shawn Lee's Ping Pong Orchestra
    The Allergies
    Michel Kiwanuka
    Dennis Lloyd
    Robert Levon Been
    Maribou State
    The Cinematic Orchestra
    Molotov Jukebox

    Something there for everything. You might think you recognise some of it/it's derivative of course you might but then welcome to pop music for the past 70 years.

    And that's to exclude the superstars - eg Kanye, Rihanna, Adele, Lizzo, etc, or, say, Grime.

    You need to get out more, take the Chris de Burgh tape off loop and start shazaming your way to find some new music.
    Wet Leg‘s first two singles were amongst the best of any I’ve heard for 30 or more years.

  • Betfair next prime minister
    1.11 Liz Truss 90%
    9.6 Rishi Sunak 10%

    Next Conservative leader
    1.11 Liz Truss 90%
    9.6 Rishi Sunak 10%
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    HYUFD said:

    This would be likely PM Truss' first by election. If she gets a bounce the Tories could hold it even if the LDs surge but if the Tories lose such a safe seat her honeymoon would be over before it has barely begun

    Safe as houses, assuming the crash comes after the by election.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    Why would he do that anyway? It’s the last thing his successor needs.
  • DougSeal said:

    Why would he do that anyway? It’s the last thing his successor needs.

    Even if Nadine's seat is lost (and there have been suggestions that Jacob Rees-Mogg might be similarly ennobled) the government will still enjoy a majority of almost 80.
  • rjkrjk Posts: 71
    I'm not sure Truss makes much difference here. Her government will not be seen as a new government but as a continuation of the previous one, and the voters will want to send a message that they are not happy with the way things are going.

    At this point, economic pain is both severe and inevitable, and the government has no good explanation for how it intends to cushion the blow. The voters will respond by kicking the government at every opportunity.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    DougSeal said:

    Why would he do that anyway? It’s the last thing his successor needs.

    Even if Nadine's seat is lost (and there have been suggestions that Jacob Rees-Mogg might be similarly ennobled) the government will still enjoy a majority of almost 80.
    I appreciate that but losing a by-election just sees the sense of crisis seep from one premiership to another

  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,639
    Absolutely safe! Probably a big swing to CON to reflect Liz's successful policies in dealing with CPI 👍
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    Absolutely safe! Probably a big swing to CON to reflect Liz's successful policies in dealing with CPI 👍

    Yes. I go to bed reassured at night that Liz has all the answers.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957
    Cookie said:

    TOPPING said:

    fpt

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Oh go on @Scott_P, educate me.

    Look at it this way.

    How much of the kit you bought in the 90's would still be part of your system today (notwithstanding the voltage issues) ?
    Richer Sounds always did decent kit, and it lasts well. My Marantz amp from there must be 25 years old.

    There is good new music now, despite what grandpa Leon was saying last night while showing his slides. I am a fan of Molchat Doma for example.

    https://youtu.be/s1ATTIQrmIQ
    I’m not just emotionally and artistically correct, I can scientifically prove I’m correct. Music is decreasing in complexity and variety, songs are more formulaic, lyrics are more repetitive and mundane. Music is getting worse

    https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/is-pop-music-evolving-or-is-it-just-getting-louder/


    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/science-proves-pop-music-has-actually-gotten-worse-8173368/

    https://arxiv.org/pdf/1907.04292.pdf

    https://www.mic.com/articles/107896/scientists-finally-prove-why-pop-music-all-sounds-the-same


    https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0115255
    You old git.

    On my playlist:

    Mazzy Star
    Quantic
    Tash Sultana
    DJariium
    Husky Loops
    Paul Hartnoll
    Finley Quaye
    Young Fathers
    Dave Thomas Junior
    Light Asylum
    Nitin Sawhney
    Elbow
    Unkle
    Kerli
    Wankelmut
    Leftfield
    X Ambassadors
    Silver Mt Zion
    FKA Twigs
    Covenant
    Shawn Lee's Ping Pong Orchestra
    The Allergies
    Michel Kiwanuka
    Dennis Lloyd
    Robert Levon Been
    Maribou State
    The Cinematic Orchestra
    Molotov Jukebox

    Something there for everything. You might think you recognise some of it/it's derivative of course you might but then welcome to pop music for the past 70 years.

    And that's to exclude the superstars - eg Kanye, Rihanna, Adele, Lizzo, etc, or, say, Grime.

    You need to get out more, take the Chris de Burgh tape off loop and start shazaming your way to find some new music.
    I would say the biggest change in music is that culture has splintered. It's very easy now to ignore the mainstream and focus on whatever niche appeals to you in a way that wasn't possible in the 80s or 90s - back then, if you were onterested in music at all, you knew what was going in in the mainstream even if the mainstream didn't appeal.
    I'm quite sure there is as much good music as ever, even if, as a middle age man, it doesn't speak to me directly in the way that, say, the Pixies did when I was 18. But it no longer forms the glue in a cultural bond in the same way.
    And as far as I can see, kids no longer identify by musical tribe. When all music is available virtually for free, why pick and choose? And as a consequence, emotional investment in any particular niche is less fierce.
    My oldest daughter likes the Wombats and the Arctic Monkeys. That would be like me at the age of 12 in 1987 liking, I don't know, Slade, or something.
    Yes but it's the same with streaming and drama. 25 million of us no longer all watch the Morecambe and Wise Christmas Special.
  • DougSeal said:

    Absolutely safe! Probably a big swing to CON to reflect Liz's successful policies in dealing with CPI 👍

    Yes. I go to bed reassured at night that Liz has all the answers.
    I assumed LPM was being withering in his sarcasm
  • DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    Why would he do that anyway? It’s the last thing his successor needs.

    Even if Nadine's seat is lost (and there have been suggestions that Jacob Rees-Mogg might be similarly ennobled) the government will still enjoy a majority of almost 80.
    I appreciate that but losing a by-election just sees the sense of crisis seep from one premiership to another

    And if it is true that Boris is looking for an early collapse of his successor's premiership followed by his own return, that might not be a bad thing. If that is not true, then it makes no real difference.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    DougSeal said:

    Absolutely safe! Probably a big swing to CON to reflect Liz's successful policies in dealing with CPI 👍

    Yes. I go to bed reassured at night that Liz has all the answers.
    I assumed LPM was being withering in his sarcasm
    He probably was, I certainly was

  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,717
    Libdems say Go Nads!
    I say bollocks.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,135
    DougSeal said:

    TOPPING said:

    fpt

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Oh go on @Scott_P, educate me.

    Look at it this way.

    How much of the kit you bought in the 90's would still be part of your system today (notwithstanding the voltage issues) ?
    Richer Sounds always did decent kit, and it lasts well. My Marantz amp from there must be 25 years old.

    There is good new music now, despite what grandpa Leon was saying last night while showing his slides. I am a fan of Molchat Doma for example.

    https://youtu.be/s1ATTIQrmIQ
    I’m not just emotionally and artistically correct, I can scientifically prove I’m correct. Music is decreasing in complexity and variety, songs are more formulaic, lyrics are more repetitive and mundane. Music is getting worse

    https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/is-pop-music-evolving-or-is-it-just-getting-louder/


    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/science-proves-pop-music-has-actually-gotten-worse-8173368/

    https://arxiv.org/pdf/1907.04292.pdf

    https://www.mic.com/articles/107896/scientists-finally-prove-why-pop-music-all-sounds-the-same


    https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0115255
    You old git.

    On my playlist:

    Mazzy Star
    Quantic
    Tash Sultana
    DJariium
    Husky Loops
    Paul Hartnoll
    Finley Quaye
    Young Fathers
    Dave Thomas Junior
    Light Asylum
    Nitin Sawhney
    Elbow
    Unkle
    Kerli
    Wankelmut
    Leftfield
    X Ambassadors
    Silver Mt Zion
    FKA Twigs
    Covenant
    Shawn Lee's Ping Pong Orchestra
    The Allergies
    Michel Kiwanuka
    Dennis Lloyd
    Robert Levon Been
    Maribou State
    The Cinematic Orchestra
    Molotov Jukebox

    Something there for everything. You might think you recognise some of it/it's derivative of course you might but then welcome to pop music for the past 70 years.

    And that's to exclude the superstars - eg Kanye, Rihanna, Adele, Lizzo, etc, or, say, Grime.

    You need to get out more, take the Chris de Burgh tape off loop and start shazaming your way to find some new music.
    Wet Leg‘s first two singles were amongst the best of any I’ve heard for 30 or more years.
    Yes, v good.

    The way I'd put this is - I totally agree that music today isn't as good as when I was young but in saying this I realize I'm almost certainly wrong.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,291
    edited August 2022
    TOPPING said:

    fpt

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Oh go on @Scott_P, educate me.

    Look at it this way.

    How much of the kit you bought in the 90's would still be part of your system today (notwithstanding the voltage issues) ?
    Richer Sounds always did decent kit, and it lasts well. My Marantz amp from there must be 25 years old.

    There is good new music now, despite what grandpa Leon was saying last night while showing his slides. I am a fan of Molchat Doma for example.

    https://youtu.be/s1ATTIQrmIQ
    I’m not just emotionally and artistically correct, I can scientifically prove I’m correct. Music is decreasing in complexity and variety, songs are more formulaic, lyrics are more repetitive and mundane. Music is getting worse

    https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/is-pop-music-evolving-or-is-it-just-getting-louder/


    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/science-proves-pop-music-has-actually-gotten-worse-8173368/

    https://arxiv.org/pdf/1907.04292.pdf

    https://www.mic.com/articles/107896/scientists-finally-prove-why-pop-music-all-sounds-the-same


    https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0115255
    You old git.

    On my playlist:

    Mazzy Star
    Quantic
    Tash Sultana
    DJariium
    Husky Loops
    Paul Hartnoll
    Finley Quaye
    Young Fathers
    Dave Thomas Junior
    Light Asylum
    Nitin Sawhney
    Elbow
    Unkle
    Kerli
    Wankelmut
    Leftfield
    X Ambassadors
    Silver Mt Zion
    FKA Twigs
    Covenant
    Shawn Lee's Ping Pong Orchestra
    The Allergies
    Michel Kiwanuka
    Dennis Lloyd
    Robert Levon Been
    Maribou State
    The Cinematic Orchestra
    Molotov Jukebox

    Something there for everything. You might think you recognise some of it/it's derivative of course you might but then welcome to pop music for the past 70 years.

    And that's to exclude the superstars - eg Kanye, Rihanna, Adele, Lizzo, etc, or, say, Grime.

    You need to get out more, take the Chris de Burgh tape off loop and start shazaming your way to find some new music.
    OMG you cut and pasted it AGAIN. The most poignantly embarrassing I-am-not-old list in the history of PB

    Can you give us a three hundred page memoir of all your “face to face encounters with grime”, and maybe a hand filmed cinema verite docudrama about your experiments doing Phenibut in your council flat in Northumberland Park?
  • In Americaland, a rerun of 2020 looks more likely after the weekend.

    Donald Trump showed he retains his wit and charisma in a speech lasting over an hour and a half.
    https://youtu.be/ahnwKC4xydc

    Joe Biden finally got his $700 billion Inflation Reduction Act through the Senate.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-62457386
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,639
    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    Absolutely safe! Probably a big swing to CON to reflect Liz's successful policies in dealing with CPI 👍

    Yes. I go to bed reassured at night that Liz has all the answers.
    I assumed LPM was being withering in his sarcasm
    He probably was, I certainly was

    You are both correct. More chance of Watford winning the premier league last season than Liz sorting this out!
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    Cookie said:

    TOPPING said:

    fpt

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Oh go on @Scott_P, educate me.

    Look at it this way.

    How much of the kit you bought in the 90's would still be part of your system today (notwithstanding the voltage issues) ?
    Richer Sounds always did decent kit, and it lasts well. My Marantz amp from there must be 25 years old.

    There is good new music now, despite what grandpa Leon was saying last night while showing his slides. I am a fan of Molchat Doma for example.

    https://youtu.be/s1ATTIQrmIQ
    I’m not just emotionally and artistically correct, I can scientifically prove I’m correct. Music is decreasing in complexity and variety, songs are more formulaic, lyrics are more repetitive and mundane. Music is getting worse

    https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/is-pop-music-evolving-or-is-it-just-getting-louder/


    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/science-proves-pop-music-has-actually-gotten-worse-8173368/

    https://arxiv.org/pdf/1907.04292.pdf

    https://www.mic.com/articles/107896/scientists-finally-prove-why-pop-music-all-sounds-the-same


    https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0115255
    You old git.

    On my playlist:

    Mazzy Star
    Quantic
    Tash Sultana
    DJariium
    Husky Loops
    Paul Hartnoll
    Finley Quaye
    Young Fathers
    Dave Thomas Junior
    Light Asylum
    Nitin Sawhney
    Elbow
    Unkle
    Kerli
    Wankelmut
    Leftfield
    X Ambassadors
    Silver Mt Zion
    FKA Twigs
    Covenant
    Shawn Lee's Ping Pong Orchestra
    The Allergies
    Michel Kiwanuka
    Dennis Lloyd
    Robert Levon Been
    Maribou State
    The Cinematic Orchestra
    Molotov Jukebox

    Something there for everything. You might think you recognise some of it/it's derivative of course you might but then welcome to pop music for the past 70 years.

    And that's to exclude the superstars - eg Kanye, Rihanna, Adele, Lizzo, etc, or, say, Grime.

    You need to get out more, take the Chris de Burgh tape off loop and start shazaming your way to find some new music.
    I would say the biggest change in music is that culture has splintered. It's very easy now to ignore the mainstream and focus on whatever niche appeals to you in a way that wasn't possible in the 80s or 90s - back then, if you were onterested in music at all, you knew what was going in in the mainstream even if the mainstream didn't appeal.
    I'm quite sure there is as much good music as ever, even if, as a middle age man, it doesn't speak to me directly in the way that, say, the Pixies did when I was 18. But it no longer forms the glue in a cultural bond in the same way.
    And as far as I can see, kids no longer identify by musical tribe. When all music is available virtually for free, why pick and choose? And as a consequence, emotional investment in
    any particular niche is less fierce.
    My oldest daughter likes the Wombats and the Arctic Monkeys. That would be like me at the age of 12 in 1987 liking, I don't know, Slade, or something.
    When I was 12, in 1986, I was very into Queen, which is similar. I only got into more contemporary (for me) stuff when I was 15 in 1989. I think the Stone Roses first album (and, less memorably, Jesus Jones’ first album) was the first time I got my finger on the pulse of my own generation.
  • On the by-election, two things are true:
    1. The public mood will be dark. Holidays over. Days getting shorter and cooler, and a growing storm of bills getting crazier and crazier. Contrasted with a government focused on itself with batted away non-answers to the crisis.
    2. A candidate who faced with the task of staunchly defending Mistress Truss's lack of a safe word for the British people will likely be contained in a box and not allowed out to meet voters.

    So the only question is do the LibDems come from 3rd again or do Labour say "our turn"?

    There is *no way* the Tories can put up a positive campaign to defend it. None.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,790
    I was going to compare the next US election to the Battle of Corupedium, but I think Biden and Trump will actually be a fair bit older than Lysimachus and Seleucus were.

    Not sure I can think of a battle in which both leaders were so old.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,962
    DougSeal said:

    Absolutely safe! Probably a big swing to CON to reflect Liz's successful policies in dealing with CPI 👍

    Yes. I go to bed reassured at night that Liz has all the answers.
    Just not necessarily in the right order.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957
    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    fpt

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Oh go on @Scott_P, educate me.

    Look at it this way.

    How much of the kit you bought in the 90's would still be part of your system today (notwithstanding the voltage issues) ?
    Richer Sounds always did decent kit, and it lasts well. My Marantz amp from there must be 25 years old.

    There is good new music now, despite what grandpa Leon was saying last night while showing his slides. I am a fan of Molchat Doma for example.

    https://youtu.be/s1ATTIQrmIQ
    I’m not just emotionally and artistically correct, I can scientifically prove I’m correct. Music is decreasing in complexity and variety, songs are more formulaic, lyrics are more repetitive and mundane. Music is getting worse

    https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/is-pop-music-evolving-or-is-it-just-getting-louder/


    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/science-proves-pop-music-has-actually-gotten-worse-8173368/

    https://arxiv.org/pdf/1907.04292.pdf

    https://www.mic.com/articles/107896/scientists-finally-prove-why-pop-music-all-sounds-the-same


    https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0115255
    You old git.

    On my playlist:

    Mazzy Star
    Quantic
    Tash Sultana
    DJariium
    Husky Loops
    Paul Hartnoll
    Finley Quaye
    Young Fathers
    Dave Thomas Junior
    Light Asylum
    Nitin Sawhney
    Elbow
    Unkle
    Kerli
    Wankelmut
    Leftfield
    X Ambassadors
    Silver Mt Zion
    FKA Twigs
    Covenant
    Shawn Lee's Ping Pong Orchestra
    The Allergies
    Michel Kiwanuka
    Dennis Lloyd
    Robert Levon Been
    Maribou State
    The Cinematic Orchestra
    Molotov Jukebox

    Something there for everything. You might think you recognise some of it/it's derivative of course you might but then welcome to pop music for the past 70 years.

    And that's to exclude the superstars - eg Kanye, Rihanna, Adele, Lizzo, etc, or, say, Grime.

    You need to get out more, take the Chris de Burgh tape off loop and start shazaming your way to find some new music.
    OMG you cut and pasted it AGAIN. The most poignantly embarrassing I-am-not-old list in the history of PB

    Can you give us a three hundred page memoir of all your “face to face encounters with grime”, and maybe a hand filmed cinema verite docudrama about your experiments doing Phenibut in your council flat in Northumberland Park?
    Twat x2.

    As I said I wouldn't know those bands if they were carving a dildo in front of me. I just Shazam anything I like and add it to a playlist (that same playlist includes Guitar Man and Calling Occupants...).

    The point is that those ones I painstakingly typed out are, in your parlance, modern beat combos.

    Put Shazam on your home screen (do Nokia 6233s have home screens?) and start exploring.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,291
    DougSeal said:

    TOPPING said:

    fpt

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Oh go on @Scott_P, educate me.

    Look at it this way.

    How much of the kit you bought in the 90's would still be part of your system today (notwithstanding the voltage issues) ?
    Richer Sounds always did decent kit, and it lasts well. My Marantz amp from there must be 25 years old.

    There is good new music now, despite what grandpa Leon was saying last night while showing his slides. I am a fan of Molchat Doma for example.

    https://youtu.be/s1ATTIQrmIQ
    I’m not just emotionally and artistically correct, I can scientifically prove I’m correct. Music is decreasing in complexity and variety, songs are more formulaic, lyrics are more repetitive and mundane. Music is getting worse

    https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/is-pop-music-evolving-or-is-it-just-getting-louder/


    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/science-proves-pop-music-has-actually-gotten-worse-8173368/

    https://arxiv.org/pdf/1907.04292.pdf

    https://www.mic.com/articles/107896/scientists-finally-prove-why-pop-music-all-sounds-the-same


    https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0115255
    You old git.

    On my playlist:

    Mazzy Star
    Quantic
    Tash Sultana
    DJariium
    Husky Loops
    Paul Hartnoll
    Finley Quaye
    Young Fathers
    Dave Thomas Junior
    Light Asylum
    Nitin Sawhney
    Elbow
    Unkle
    Kerli
    Wankelmut
    Leftfield
    X Ambassadors
    Silver Mt Zion
    FKA Twigs
    Covenant
    Shawn Lee's Ping Pong Orchestra
    The Allergies
    Michel Kiwanuka
    Dennis Lloyd
    Robert Levon Been
    Maribou State
    The Cinematic Orchestra
    Molotov Jukebox

    Something there for everything. You might think you recognise some of it/it's derivative of course you might but then welcome to pop music for the past 70 years.

    And that's to exclude the superstars - eg Kanye, Rihanna, Adele, Lizzo, etc, or, say, Grime.

    You need to get out more, take the Chris de Burgh tape off loop and start shazaming your way to find some new music.
    Wet Leg‘s first two singles were amongst the best of any I’ve heard for 30 or more years.



    OK let’s analysis this. i know Wet Leg, they are OK

    Here’s their first single. Chaise Longue

    https://youtu.be/Zd9jeJk2UHQ

    Pleasantly monotonous. Quirky. But “among the best singles of the last 30 years” is absolutely farcical. For a start, compare it with this song, Yellow Horse by Cowboy Racer


    https://youtu.be/5rdW_0c6zvY


    I submit they are almost identical, the deadpan approach, the slightly off key female vocals, the deliberate flatness of affect, the eccentric lyrics. The different is that Yellow Horse is better, funnier, sexier. Written 17 years ago
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,566
    Boris giving the Tories a headache as his parting shot.

    However, it is the final chance to give the old two-fingered salute to him - so make sure the Tories have a resounding majority.

    And to celebrate the departure of Mad Nads. Be so much easier to vote Conservative for her successor, for many people.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    edited August 2022
    There is nothing more toe curlingly cringe than an old person trying to justify why they think the kids of today have an inferior pop culture.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    Nobody in the new music, good music debate mentioned Kenna, as featured in one of Malcolm Gladwell's books?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,566
    The Antonovsky bridge across the Dnipro river in Kherson took another HIMARS battering overnight, taking out the repair kit trying to fix it after the last battering.

    There are up to 10,000 Russian troops on the wrong side of that bridge.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,291
    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    fpt

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Oh go on @Scott_P, educate me.

    Look at it this way.

    How much of the kit you bought in the 90's would still be part of your system today (notwithstanding the voltage issues) ?
    Richer Sounds always did decent kit, and it lasts well. My Marantz amp from there must be 25 years old.

    There is good new music now, despite what grandpa Leon was saying last night while showing his slides. I am a fan of Molchat Doma for example.

    https://youtu.be/s1ATTIQrmIQ
    I’m not just emotionally and artistically correct, I can scientifically prove I’m correct. Music is decreasing in complexity and variety, songs are more formulaic, lyrics are more repetitive and mundane. Music is getting worse

    https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/is-pop-music-evolving-or-is-it-just-getting-louder/


    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/science-proves-pop-music-has-actually-gotten-worse-8173368/

    https://arxiv.org/pdf/1907.04292.pdf

    https://www.mic.com/articles/107896/scientists-finally-prove-why-pop-music-all-sounds-the-same


    https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0115255
    You old git.

    On my playlist:

    Mazzy Star
    Quantic
    Tash Sultana
    DJariium
    Husky Loops
    Paul Hartnoll
    Finley Quaye
    Young Fathers
    Dave Thomas Junior
    Light Asylum
    Nitin Sawhney
    Elbow
    Unkle
    Kerli
    Wankelmut
    Leftfield
    X Ambassadors
    Silver Mt Zion
    FKA Twigs
    Covenant
    Shawn Lee's Ping Pong Orchestra
    The Allergies
    Michel Kiwanuka
    Dennis Lloyd
    Robert Levon Been
    Maribou State
    The Cinematic Orchestra
    Molotov Jukebox

    Something there for everything. You might think you recognise some of it/it's derivative of course you might but then welcome to pop music for the past 70 years.

    And that's to exclude the superstars - eg Kanye, Rihanna, Adele, Lizzo, etc, or, say, Grime.

    You need to get out more, take the Chris de Burgh tape off loop and start shazaming your way to find some new music.
    OMG you cut and pasted it AGAIN. The most poignantly embarrassing I-am-not-old list in the history of PB

    Can you give us a three hundred page memoir of all your “face to face encounters with grime”, and maybe a hand filmed cinema verite docudrama about your experiments doing Phenibut in your council flat in Northumberland Park?
    Twat x2.

    As I said I wouldn't know those bands if they were carving a dildo in front of me. I just Shazam anything I like and add it to a playlist (that same playlist includes Guitar Man and Calling Occupants...).

    The point is that those ones I painstakingly typed out are, in your parlance, modern beat combos.

    Put Shazam on your home screen (do Nokia 6233s have home screens?) and start exploring.
    You seem oddly stung by my criticism. I can’t imagine why
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585

    The Antonovsky bridge across the Dnipro river in Kherson took another HIMARS battering overnight, taking out the repair kit trying to fix it after the last battering.

    There are up to 10,000 Russian troops on the wrong side of that bridge.

    What a shame.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,566
    Alistair said:

    There is nothing more toe curlingly cringe than an old person trying to justify why they think the kids of today have an inferior pop culture.

    If you really want to make your toes curl, watch those TOTP reruns. The odd classic, but mountains of shite.
  • I don't care how popular Liz is, if she doesn't do something about energy bills she'll poll sub 30.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,719
    Operation Boris Chicken Run?
  • Next Tory leadership hustings is tomorrow, in Darlington, where a 2-bed terraced house will set you back £60-70,000 and ten times as much will buy a large, detached house. I wonder which end the Conservative members live.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    TOPPING said:

    fpt

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Oh go on @Scott_P, educate me.

    Look at it this way.

    How much of the kit you bought in the 90's would still be part of your system today (notwithstanding the voltage issues) ?
    Richer Sounds always did decent kit, and it lasts well. My Marantz amp from there must be 25 years old.

    There is good new music now, despite what grandpa Leon was saying last night while showing his slides. I am a fan of Molchat Doma for example.

    https://youtu.be/s1ATTIQrmIQ
    I’m not just emotionally and artistically correct, I can scientifically prove I’m correct. Music is decreasing in complexity and variety, songs are more formulaic, lyrics are more repetitive and mundane. Music is getting worse

    https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/is-pop-music-evolving-or-is-it-just-getting-louder/


    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/science-proves-pop-music-has-actually-gotten-worse-8173368/

    https://arxiv.org/pdf/1907.04292.pdf

    https://www.mic.com/articles/107896/scientists-finally-prove-why-pop-music-all-sounds-the-same


    https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0115255
    You old git.

    On my playlist:

    Mazzy Star
    Quantic
    Tash Sultana
    DJariium
    Husky Loops
    Paul Hartnoll
    Finley Quaye
    Young Fathers
    Dave Thomas Junior
    Light Asylum
    Nitin Sawhney
    Elbow
    Unkle
    Kerli
    Wankelmut
    Leftfield
    X Ambassadors
    Silver Mt Zion
    FKA Twigs
    Covenant
    Shawn Lee's Ping Pong Orchestra
    The Allergies
    Michel Kiwanuka
    Dennis Lloyd
    Robert Levon Been
    Maribou State
    The Cinematic Orchestra
    Molotov Jukebox

    Something there for everything. You might think you recognise some of it/it's derivative of course you might but then welcome to pop music for the past 70 years.

    And that's to exclude the superstars - eg Kanye, Rihanna, Adele, Lizzo, etc, or, say, Grime.

    You need to get out more, take the Chris de Burgh tape off loop and start shazaming your way to find some new music.
    Wet Leg‘s first two singles were amongst the best of any I’ve heard for 30 or more years.



    OK let’s analysis this. i know Wet Leg, they are OK

    Here’s their first single. Chaise Longue

    https://youtu.be/Zd9jeJk2UHQ

    Pleasantly monotonous. Quirky. But “among the best singles of the last 30 years” is absolutely farcical. For a start, compare it with this song, Yellow Horse by Cowboy Racer

    https://youtu.be/5rdW_0c6zv


    I submit they are almost identical, the deadpan approach, the slightly off key female vocals, the deliberate flatness of affect, the eccentric lyrics. The different is that Yellow Horse is better, funnier, sexier. Written 17 years ago
    Are you f’ing kidding me? The double entendre in the first verse of Chaise Longue alone is simultaneously funnier and sexier than the whole of Yellow Horse. There are acts out there that might disprove my thesis - but Cowboy Racer sure isn’t one of them.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,275
    edited August 2022
    Well done Birmingham for a fantastic Commonwealth Games . The crowds have been incredible and the atmosphere has been wonderful .

    My star of the games is Eilish McColgan , not just for her gold and silver medals but her sheer joy at winning and her warmth . She seems really lovely from the interviews and you can’t help but smile .

  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,822
    Alistair said:

    There is nothing more toe curlingly cringe than an old person trying to justify why they think the kids of today have an inferior pop culture.

    Leon in reactionary cliched old man having his (post?) mid life crisis shocker. Next!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,923
    edited August 2022

    In Americaland, a rerun of 2020 looks more likely after the weekend.

    Donald Trump showed he retains his wit and charisma in a speech lasting over an hour and a half.
    https://youtu.be/ahnwKC4xydc

    Joe Biden finally got his $700 billion Inflation Reduction Act through the Senate.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-62457386

    Depends what happens in November, if the GOP win both Chambers of Congress and win big Trump definitely runs again in 2024. If the Democrats hold the Senate he might not.

    Trump blamed Biden for Afghanistan, Russia invading Ukraine and China threatening Taiwan. He also blamed Biden and the Democrats Green New Deal for being a key factor in rising inflation.

    If Biden doesn't run again then as I have said before Buttigieg is a good bet
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,191
    nico679 said:

    Well done Birmingham for a fantastic Commonwealth Games . The crowds have been incredible and the atmosphere has been wonderful .

    My star of the games is Eilish McColgan , not just for her gold and silver medals but her sheer joy at winning and her warmth . She seems really lovely from the interviews and you can’t help but smile .

    Yep a real triumph for oft overlooked Birmingham tbh.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,923
    edited August 2022

    I don't care how popular Liz is, if she doesn't do something about energy bills she'll poll sub 30.

    In which case ironically Boris may have got out at the right time.

    Blair too of course departed before the 2008 crash and Brown had to deal with it
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,566
    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    TOPPING said:

    fpt

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Oh go on @Scott_P, educate me.

    Look at it this way.

    How much of the kit you bought in the 90's would still be part of your system today (notwithstanding the voltage issues) ?
    Richer Sounds always did decent kit, and it lasts well. My Marantz amp from there must be 25 years old.

    There is good new music now, despite what grandpa Leon was saying last night while showing his slides. I am a fan of Molchat Doma for example.

    https://youtu.be/s1ATTIQrmIQ
    I’m not just emotionally and artistically correct, I can scientifically prove I’m correct. Music is decreasing in complexity and variety, songs are more formulaic, lyrics are more repetitive and mundane. Music is getting worse

    https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/is-pop-music-evolving-or-is-it-just-getting-louder/


    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/science-proves-pop-music-has-actually-gotten-worse-8173368/

    https://arxiv.org/pdf/1907.04292.pdf

    https://www.mic.com/articles/107896/scientists-finally-prove-why-pop-music-all-sounds-the-same


    https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0115255
    You old git.

    On my playlist:

    Mazzy Star
    Quantic
    Tash Sultana
    DJariium
    Husky Loops
    Paul Hartnoll
    Finley Quaye
    Young Fathers
    Dave Thomas Junior
    Light Asylum
    Nitin Sawhney
    Elbow
    Unkle
    Kerli
    Wankelmut
    Leftfield
    X Ambassadors
    Silver Mt Zion
    FKA Twigs
    Covenant
    Shawn Lee's Ping Pong Orchestra
    The Allergies
    Michel Kiwanuka
    Dennis Lloyd
    Robert Levon Been
    Maribou State
    The Cinematic Orchestra
    Molotov Jukebox

    Something there for everything. You might think you recognise some of it/it's derivative of course you might but then welcome to pop music for the past 70 years.

    And that's to exclude the superstars - eg Kanye, Rihanna, Adele, Lizzo, etc, or, say, Grime.

    You need to get out more, take the Chris de Burgh tape off loop and start shazaming your way to find some new music.
    Wet Leg‘s first two singles were amongst the best of any I’ve heard for 30 or more years.



    OK let’s analysis this. i know Wet Leg, they are OK

    Here’s their first single. Chaise Longue

    https://youtu.be/Zd9jeJk2UHQ

    Pleasantly monotonous. Quirky. But “among the best singles of the last 30 years” is absolutely farcical. For a start, compare it with this song, Yellow Horse by Cowboy Racer


    https://youtu.be/5rdW_0c6zvY


    I submit they are almost identical, the deadpan approach, the slightly off key female vocals, the deliberate flatness of affect, the eccentric lyrics. The different is that Yellow Horse is better, funnier, sexier. Written 17 years ago
    Nothing the Flying Lizards weren't doing in 1979.... In 2 minutes 30.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-P2qL3qkzk
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,784
    kinabalu said:

    DougSeal said:

    TOPPING said:

    fpt

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Oh go on @Scott_P, educate me.

    Look at it this way.

    How much of the kit you bought in the 90's would still be part of your system today (notwithstanding the voltage issues) ?
    Richer Sounds always did decent kit, and it lasts well. My Marantz amp from there must be 25 years old.

    There is good new music now, despite what grandpa Leon was saying last night while showing his slides. I am a fan of Molchat Doma for example.

    https://youtu.be/s1ATTIQrmIQ
    I’m not just emotionally and artistically correct, I can scientifically prove I’m correct. Music is decreasing in complexity and variety, songs are more formulaic, lyrics are more repetitive and mundane. Music is getting worse

    https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/is-pop-music-evolving-or-is-it-just-getting-louder/


    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/science-proves-pop-music-has-actually-gotten-worse-8173368/

    https://arxiv.org/pdf/1907.04292.pdf

    https://www.mic.com/articles/107896/scientists-finally-prove-why-pop-music-all-sounds-the-same


    https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0115255
    You old git.

    On my playlist:

    Mazzy Star
    Quantic
    Tash Sultana
    DJariium
    Husky Loops
    Paul Hartnoll
    Finley Quaye
    Young Fathers
    Dave Thomas Junior
    Light Asylum
    Nitin Sawhney
    Elbow
    Unkle
    Kerli
    Wankelmut
    Leftfield
    X Ambassadors
    Silver Mt Zion
    FKA Twigs
    Covenant
    Shawn Lee's Ping Pong Orchestra
    The Allergies
    Michel Kiwanuka
    Dennis Lloyd
    Robert Levon Been
    Maribou State
    The Cinematic Orchestra
    Molotov Jukebox

    Something there for everything. You might think you recognise some of it/it's derivative of course you might but then welcome to pop music for the past 70 years.

    And that's to exclude the superstars - eg Kanye, Rihanna, Adele, Lizzo, etc, or, say, Grime.

    You need to get out more, take the Chris de Burgh tape off loop and start shazaming your way to find some new music.
    Wet Leg‘s first two singles were amongst the best of any I’ve heard for 30 or more years.
    Yes, v good.

    The way I'd put this is - I totally agree that music today isn't as good as when I was young but in saying this I realize I'm almost certainly wrong.
    Survivorship bias, innit. The good music lasts, the dross fades away, so music looks better the further back you go. The same reason we think the Victorians were good builders. I won't even pretend to be down with the kids - I just put on Magic and enjoy.
  • tpfkartpfkar Posts: 1,565
    Local seat to us as well. Beautiful area.

    It feels like it should be a very safe Tory seat, many comfortable villages where the cost of living crisis will happen to other people.

    But electorate around 90k due to significant housebuilding in the likes of Marston Moretaine, Wixams, Ampthill, Shefford etc. They will take the average age of the constituency down significantly which is where the opposition have a chance.

    I'd expect the Lib Dems to be challengers, but may be harder to squeeze some of the Labour vote here. Lots of active Lib Dem parties around and Bedford have already started: https://twitter.com/BedfordVann/status/1555982233038716934

    And a fair bit of affection for Dorries locally - might be hard for some of us to believe but she does carry a decent personal vote.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,799
    TOPPING said:

    Cookie said:

    TOPPING said:

    fpt

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Oh go on @Scott_P, educate me.

    Look at it this way.

    How much of the kit you bought in the 90's would still be part of your system today (notwithstanding the voltage issues) ?
    Richer Sounds always did decent kit, and it lasts well. My Marantz amp from there must be 25 years old.

    There is good new music now, despite what grandpa Leon was saying last night while showing his slides. I am a fan of Molchat Doma for example.

    https://youtu.be/s1ATTIQrmIQ
    I’m not just emotionally and artistically correct, I can scientifically prove I’m correct. Music is decreasing in complexity and variety, songs are more formulaic, lyrics are more repetitive and mundane. Music is getting worse

    https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/is-pop-music-evolving-or-is-it-just-getting-louder/


    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/science-proves-pop-music-has-actually-gotten-worse-8173368/

    https://arxiv.org/pdf/1907.04292.pdf

    https://www.mic.com/articles/107896/scientists-finally-prove-why-pop-music-all-sounds-the-same


    https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0115255
    You old git.

    On my playlist:

    Mazzy Star
    Quantic
    Tash Sultana
    DJariium
    Husky Loops
    Paul Hartnoll
    Finley Quaye
    Young Fathers
    Dave Thomas Junior
    Light Asylum
    Nitin Sawhney
    Elbow
    Unkle
    Kerli
    Wankelmut
    Leftfield
    X Ambassadors
    Silver Mt Zion
    FKA Twigs
    Covenant
    Shawn Lee's Ping Pong Orchestra
    The Allergies
    Michel Kiwanuka
    Dennis Lloyd
    Robert Levon Been
    Maribou State
    The Cinematic Orchestra
    Molotov Jukebox

    Something there for everything. You might think you recognise some of it/it's derivative of course you might but then welcome to pop music for the past 70 years.

    And that's to exclude the superstars - eg Kanye, Rihanna, Adele, Lizzo, etc, or, say, Grime.

    You need to get out more, take the Chris de Burgh tape off loop and start shazaming your way to find some new music.
    I would say the biggest change in music is that culture has splintered. It's very easy now to ignore the mainstream and focus on whatever niche appeals to you in a way that wasn't possible in the 80s or 90s - back then, if you were onterested in music at all, you knew what was going in in the mainstream even if the mainstream didn't appeal.
    I'm quite sure there is as much good music as ever, even if, as a middle age man, it doesn't speak to me directly in the way that, say, the Pixies did when I was 18. But it no longer forms the glue in a cultural bond in the same way.
    And as far as I can see, kids no longer identify by musical tribe. When all music is available virtually for free, why pick and choose? And as a consequence, emotional investment in any particular niche is less fierce.
    My oldest daughter likes the Wombats and the Arctic Monkeys. That would be like me at the age of 12 in 1987 liking, I don't know, Slade, or something.
    Yes but it's the same with streaming and drama. 25 million of us no longer all watch the Morecambe and Wise Christmas Special.
    That is also true.

    On Wet Leg - who, betting post, will almost certainly win the Mercury, by the way - I must admit I was quite irritated by Chaise Longue when I first heard it. The opening line is about getting a degree. Regrettably unrocknroll. Did the Rolling Stones get degrees? No, as Mick Jagger said in his letter to Kent County Council, they left uni to pursue opportunities in the entertainment industry. Getting a degree epitomises everything that is wrong with modern culture. Being a student band used to be something bands kept quiet, a cause for derision. [\rant mode off\].
    Anyway, that aside, the song is quite good. I wouldn't say their the best thing in 30 years, but enjoyable nonetheless.
  • HYUFD said:

    I don't care how popular Liz is, if she doesn't do something about energy bills she'll poll sub 30.

    In which case ironically Boris may have got out at the right time.

    Blair too of course departed before the 2008 crash and Brown had to deal with it
    I think your party is probably at the end old chap. You've had a good run (well not in my opinion but in terms of time you have) and now time to rejuvenate in opposition for good.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957
    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    fpt

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Oh go on @Scott_P, educate me.

    Look at it this way.

    How much of the kit you bought in the 90's would still be part of your system today (notwithstanding the voltage issues) ?
    Richer Sounds always did decent kit, and it lasts well. My Marantz amp from there must be 25 years old.

    There is good new music now, despite what grandpa Leon was saying last night while showing his slides. I am a fan of Molchat Doma for example.

    https://youtu.be/s1ATTIQrmIQ
    I’m not just emotionally and artistically correct, I can scientifically prove I’m correct. Music is decreasing in complexity and variety, songs are more formulaic, lyrics are more repetitive and mundane. Music is getting worse

    https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/is-pop-music-evolving-or-is-it-just-getting-louder/


    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/science-proves-pop-music-has-actually-gotten-worse-8173368/

    https://arxiv.org/pdf/1907.04292.pdf

    https://www.mic.com/articles/107896/scientists-finally-prove-why-pop-music-all-sounds-the-same


    https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0115255
    You old git.

    On my playlist:

    Mazzy Star
    Quantic
    Tash Sultana
    DJariium
    Husky Loops
    Paul Hartnoll
    Finley Quaye
    Young Fathers
    Dave Thomas Junior
    Light Asylum
    Nitin Sawhney
    Elbow
    Unkle
    Kerli
    Wankelmut
    Leftfield
    X Ambassadors
    Silver Mt Zion
    FKA Twigs
    Covenant
    Shawn Lee's Ping Pong Orchestra
    The Allergies
    Michel Kiwanuka
    Dennis Lloyd
    Robert Levon Been
    Maribou State
    The Cinematic Orchestra
    Molotov Jukebox

    Something there for everything. You might think you recognise some of it/it's derivative of course you might but then welcome to pop music for the past 70 years.

    And that's to exclude the superstars - eg Kanye, Rihanna, Adele, Lizzo, etc, or, say, Grime.

    You need to get out more, take the Chris de Burgh tape off loop and start shazaming your way to find some new music.
    OMG you cut and pasted it AGAIN. The most poignantly embarrassing I-am-not-old list in the history of PB

    Can you give us a three hundred page memoir of all your “face to face encounters with grime”, and maybe a hand filmed cinema verite docudrama about your experiments doing Phenibut in your council flat in Northumberland Park?
    Twat x2.

    As I said I wouldn't know those bands if they were carving a dildo in front of me. I just Shazam anything I like and add it to a playlist (that same playlist includes Guitar Man and Calling Occupants...).

    The point is that those ones I painstakingly typed out are, in your parlance, modern beat combos.

    Put Shazam on your home screen (do Nokia 6233s have home screens?) and start exploring.
    You seem oddly stung by my criticism. I can’t imagine why
    I am wholly unstung by your criticism. I am explaining, painfully it turns out because it is a simple enough point, that there is plenty of modern music around now that is great and that it has historically been the case that the older generation (ie you) bemoans the "youth of today" in various cultural areas.

    That you are turning into your father (you wish) seems to be meanwhile what is irking you.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,361
    A possible scenario is that Dorries and Rees-Mogg are both ennobled, and Johnson takes the Chiltern Hundreds, so that there are three by-elections at once.

    In that scenario the Lib Dems would risk winning neither if they went for both Mid Beds and NE Somerset, so it's possible they'll concentrate on the seat in the West, where a smaller swing of 14.2% is required, compared to the 23.6% needed in Mid Beds.

    Labour, of course, would concentrate on the seat in London.

    This raises the nightmare scenario for OGH of having a by-election on his doorstep only for it to be overshadowed by two more exciting contests elsewhere on the same day.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,291
    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    TOPPING said:

    fpt

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Oh go on @Scott_P, educate me.

    Look at it this way.

    How much of the kit you bought in the 90's would still be part of your system today (notwithstanding the voltage issues) ?
    Richer Sounds always did decent kit, and it lasts well. My Marantz amp from there must be 25 years old.

    There is good new music now, despite what grandpa Leon was saying last night while showing his slides. I am a fan of Molchat Doma for example.

    https://youtu.be/s1ATTIQrmIQ
    I’m not just emotionally and artistically correct, I can scientifically prove I’m correct. Music is decreasing in complexity and variety, songs are more formulaic, lyrics are more repetitive and mundane. Music is getting worse

    https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/is-pop-music-evolving-or-is-it-just-getting-louder/


    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/science-proves-pop-music-has-actually-gotten-worse-8173368/

    https://arxiv.org/pdf/1907.04292.pdf

    https://www.mic.com/articles/107896/scientists-finally-prove-why-pop-music-all-sounds-the-same


    https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0115255
    You old git.

    On my playlist:

    Mazzy Star
    Quantic
    Tash Sultana
    DJariium
    Husky Loops
    Paul Hartnoll
    Finley Quaye
    Young Fathers
    Dave Thomas Junior
    Light Asylum
    Nitin Sawhney
    Elbow
    Unkle
    Kerli
    Wankelmut
    Leftfield
    X Ambassadors
    Silver Mt Zion
    FKA Twigs
    Covenant
    Shawn Lee's Ping Pong Orchestra
    The Allergies
    Michel Kiwanuka
    Dennis Lloyd
    Robert Levon Been
    Maribou State
    The Cinematic Orchestra
    Molotov Jukebox

    Something there for everything. You might think you recognise some of it/it's derivative of course you might but then welcome to pop music for the past 70 years.

    And that's to exclude the superstars - eg Kanye, Rihanna, Adele, Lizzo, etc, or, say, Grime.

    You need to get out more, take the Chris de Burgh tape off loop and start shazaming your way to find some new music.
    Wet Leg‘s first two singles were amongst the best of any I’ve heard for 30 or more years.



    OK let’s analysis this. i know Wet Leg, they are OK

    Here’s their first single. Chaise Longue

    https://youtu.be/Zd9jeJk2UHQ

    Pleasantly monotonous. Quirky. But “among the best singles of the last 30 years” is absolutely farcical. For a start, compare it with this song, Yellow Horse by Cowboy Racer

    https://youtu.be/5rdW_0c6zv


    I submit they are almost identical, the deadpan approach, the slightly off key female vocals, the deliberate flatness of affect, the eccentric lyrics. The different is that Yellow Horse is better, funnier, sexier. Written 17 years ago
    Are you f’ing kidding me? The double entendre in the first verse of Chaise Longue alone is simultaneously funnier and sexier than the whole of Yellow Horse. There are acts out there that might disprove my thesis - but Cowboy Racer sure isn’t one of them.
    The bands are so similar - sound, presentation, theme - Cowboy Racer should sue

    And besides, it is you making the outrageous claim: that Wet Leg have produced “two of the best singles of the last 30 years”. It is comically absurd. And what is this amazing double entendre? Buttered muffin? It’s been street slang for decades

    https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=buttered muffin
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,635
    Alistair said:

    There is nothing more toe curlingly cringe than an old person trying to justify why they think the kids of today have an inferior pop culture.

    Unless you think pop culture always has a constant standard or keeps getting better and better then it must sometimes be true that the present is inferior to the past.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,923

    A possible scenario is that Dorries and Rees-Mogg are both ennobled, and Johnson takes the Chiltern Hundreds, so that there are three by-elections at once.

    In that scenario the Lib Dems would risk winning neither if they went for both Mid Beds and NE Somerset, so it's possible they'll concentrate on the seat in the West, where a smaller swing of 14.2% is required, compared to the 23.6% needed in Mid Beds.

    Labour, of course, would concentrate on the seat in London.

    This raises the nightmare scenario for OGH of having a by-election on his doorstep only for it to be overshadowed by two more exciting contests elsewhere on the same day.

    No mention of Rees Mogg going to the Lords, instead he is likely to get a post in Truss' Cabinet
  • HYUFD said:

    In Americaland, a rerun of 2020 looks more likely after the weekend.

    Donald Trump showed he retains his wit and charisma in a speech lasting over an hour and a half.
    https://youtu.be/ahnwKC4xydc

    Joe Biden finally got his $700 billion Inflation Reduction Act through the Senate.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-62457386

    Depends what happens in November, if the GOP win both Chambers of Congress and win big Trump definitely runs again in 2024. If the Democrats hold the Senate he might not.

    Trump blamed Biden for Afghanistan, Russia invading Ukraine and China threatening Taiwan. He also blamed Biden's Green New Deal for being a key factor in rising inflation.

    If Biden doesn't run again then as I have said before Buttigieg is a good bet
    Good point. I forgot to mention that while Trump commanded the crowd, some of what he said verged on the batshit insane. At one point The Donald appeared to suggest the January 6th Capitol invasion would have been prevented if he'd been running the country.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,191

    Alistair said:

    There is nothing more toe curlingly cringe than an old person trying to justify why they think the kids of today have an inferior pop culture.

    Unless you think pop culture always has a constant standard or keeps getting better and better then it must sometimes be true that the present is inferior to the past.
    TV drama is holding it's own against the past but pop music isn't.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,291
    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    fpt

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Oh go on @Scott_P, educate me.

    Look at it this way.

    How much of the kit you bought in the 90's would still be part of your system today (notwithstanding the voltage issues) ?
    Richer Sounds always did decent kit, and it lasts well. My Marantz amp from there must be 25 years old.

    There is good new music now, despite what grandpa Leon was saying last night while showing his slides. I am a fan of Molchat Doma for example.

    https://youtu.be/s1ATTIQrmIQ
    I’m not just emotionally and artistically correct, I can scientifically prove I’m correct. Music is decreasing in complexity and variety, songs are more formulaic, lyrics are more repetitive and mundane. Music is getting worse

    https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/is-pop-music-evolving-or-is-it-just-getting-louder/


    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/science-proves-pop-music-has-actually-gotten-worse-8173368/

    https://arxiv.org/pdf/1907.04292.pdf

    https://www.mic.com/articles/107896/scientists-finally-prove-why-pop-music-all-sounds-the-same


    https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0115255
    You old git.

    On my playlist:

    Mazzy Star
    Quantic
    Tash Sultana
    DJariium
    Husky Loops
    Paul Hartnoll
    Finley Quaye
    Young Fathers
    Dave Thomas Junior
    Light Asylum
    Nitin Sawhney
    Elbow
    Unkle
    Kerli
    Wankelmut
    Leftfield
    X Ambassadors
    Silver Mt Zion
    FKA Twigs
    Covenant
    Shawn Lee's Ping Pong Orchestra
    The Allergies
    Michel Kiwanuka
    Dennis Lloyd
    Robert Levon Been
    Maribou State
    The Cinematic Orchestra
    Molotov Jukebox

    Something there for everything. You might think you recognise some of it/it's derivative of course you might but then welcome to pop music for the past 70 years.

    And that's to exclude the superstars - eg Kanye, Rihanna, Adele, Lizzo, etc, or, say, Grime.

    You need to get out more, take the Chris de Burgh tape off loop and start shazaming your way to find some new music.
    OMG you cut and pasted it AGAIN. The most poignantly embarrassing I-am-not-old list in the history of PB

    Can you give us a three hundred page memoir of all your “face to face encounters with grime”, and maybe a hand filmed cinema verite docudrama about your experiments doing Phenibut in your council flat in Northumberland Park?
    Twat x2.

    As I said I wouldn't know those bands if they were carving a dildo in front of me. I just Shazam anything I like and add it to a playlist (that same playlist includes Guitar Man and Calling Occupants...).

    The point is that those ones I painstakingly typed out are, in your parlance, modern beat combos.

    Put Shazam on your home screen (do Nokia 6233s have home screens?) and start exploring.
    You seem oddly stung by my criticism. I can’t imagine why
    I am wholly unstung by your criticism. I am explaining, painfully it turns out because it is a simple enough point, that there is plenty of modern music around now that is great and that it has historically been the case that the older generation (ie you) bemoans the "youth of today" in various cultural areas.

    That you are turning into your father (you wish) seems to be meanwhile what is irking you.
    “My face to face encounters with grime via the medium of modern British drama” by “Topping” is possibly one of my favourite sentences ever written on PB
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,566
    DougSeal said:

    Cookie said:

    TOPPING said:

    fpt

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Oh go on @Scott_P, educate me.

    Look at it this way.

    How much of the kit you bought in the 90's would still be part of your system today (notwithstanding the voltage issues) ?
    Richer Sounds always did decent kit, and it lasts well. My Marantz amp from there must be 25 years old.

    There is good new music now, despite what grandpa Leon was saying last night while showing his slides. I am a fan of Molchat Doma for example.

    https://youtu.be/s1ATTIQrmIQ
    I’m not just emotionally and artistically correct, I can scientifically prove I’m correct. Music is decreasing in complexity and variety, songs are more formulaic, lyrics are more repetitive and mundane. Music is getting worse

    https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/is-pop-music-evolving-or-is-it-just-getting-louder/


    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/science-proves-pop-music-has-actually-gotten-worse-8173368/

    https://arxiv.org/pdf/1907.04292.pdf

    https://www.mic.com/articles/107896/scientists-finally-prove-why-pop-music-all-sounds-the-same


    https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0115255
    You old git.

    On my playlist:

    Mazzy Star
    Quantic
    Tash Sultana
    DJariium
    Husky Loops
    Paul Hartnoll
    Finley Quaye
    Young Fathers
    Dave Thomas Junior
    Light Asylum
    Nitin Sawhney
    Elbow
    Unkle
    Kerli
    Wankelmut
    Leftfield
    X Ambassadors
    Silver Mt Zion
    FKA Twigs
    Covenant
    Shawn Lee's Ping Pong Orchestra
    The Allergies
    Michel Kiwanuka
    Dennis Lloyd
    Robert Levon Been
    Maribou State
    The Cinematic Orchestra
    Molotov Jukebox

    Something there for everything. You might think you recognise some of it/it's derivative of course you might but then welcome to pop music for the past 70 years.

    And that's to exclude the superstars - eg Kanye, Rihanna, Adele, Lizzo, etc, or, say, Grime.

    You need to get out more, take the Chris de Burgh tape off loop and start shazaming your way to find some new music.
    I would say the biggest change in music is that culture has splintered. It's very easy now to ignore the mainstream and focus on whatever niche appeals to you in a way that wasn't possible in the 80s or 90s - back then, if you were onterested in music at all, you knew what was going in in the mainstream even if the mainstream didn't appeal.
    I'm quite sure there is as much good music as ever, even if, as a middle age man, it doesn't speak to me directly in the way that, say, the Pixies did when I was 18. But it no longer forms the glue in a cultural bond in the same way.
    And as far as I can see, kids no longer identify by musical tribe. When all music is available virtually for free, why pick and choose? And as a consequence, emotional investment in
    any particular niche is less fierce.
    My oldest daughter likes the Wombats and the Arctic Monkeys. That would be like me at the age of 12 in 1987 liking, I don't know, Slade, or something.
    When I was 12, in 1986, I was very into Queen, which is similar. I only got into more contemporary (for me) stuff when I was 15 in 1989. I think the Stone Roses first album (and, less memorably, Jesus Jones’ first album) was the first time I got my finger on the pulse of my own generation.
    Every generation could do a lot worse than start building their playlist with the Stone Roses.
  • vikvik Posts: 159
    FPT:
    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:


    For instance, democracy is in retreat. And has been for many years. Do you get out much?


    “In 2018, Freedom in the World recorded the 13th consecutive year of decline in global freedom. The reversal has spanned a variety of countries in every region, from long-standing democracies like the United States to consolidated authoritarian regimes like China and Russia. The overall losses are still shallow compared with the gains of the late 20th century, but the pattern is consistent and ominous. Democracy is in retreat.”

    https://freedomhouse.org/report/freedom-world/2019/democracy-retreat

    That was in 2019. Do you think it’s got better since then? No, neither do I

    That’s a random think-tank opinion piece trying to push a narrative, rather than a scientific study. The last few years have shown that, in countries like the USA, democracy has very much prevailed over those who said it woundn’t.

    China and Russia never had anything but a fig-leaf of democracy anyway.
    Democracy prevailed in 2019, but there are questions about whether it'll prevail in the future.

    The MAGA forces are very busy trying to get "Stop the Steal" supporters elected into key Secretary of State and Governor positions in various states.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2022/07/19/magazine/stop-the-steal.html
  • VerulamiusVerulamius Posts: 1,543
    Would Labour or the Lib Dems be the main challenger to the Conservatives in Mid Bedfordshire?

    What are the demographics for this seat?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,012
    edited August 2022
    I imagine the fact that Spotify exists has had a huge impact on what pop music is created / hyped by the record labels.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,291

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    TOPPING said:

    fpt

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Oh go on @Scott_P, educate me.

    Look at it this way.

    How much of the kit you bought in the 90's would still be part of your system today (notwithstanding the voltage issues) ?
    Richer Sounds always did decent kit, and it lasts well. My Marantz amp from there must be 25 years old.

    There is good new music now, despite what grandpa Leon was saying last night while showing his slides. I am a fan of Molchat Doma for example.

    https://youtu.be/s1ATTIQrmIQ
    I’m not just emotionally and artistically correct, I can scientifically prove I’m correct. Music is decreasing in complexity and variety, songs are more formulaic, lyrics are more repetitive and mundane. Music is getting worse

    https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/is-pop-music-evolving-or-is-it-just-getting-louder/


    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/science-proves-pop-music-has-actually-gotten-worse-8173368/

    https://arxiv.org/pdf/1907.04292.pdf

    https://www.mic.com/articles/107896/scientists-finally-prove-why-pop-music-all-sounds-the-same


    https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0115255
    You old git.

    On my playlist:

    Mazzy Star
    Quantic
    Tash Sultana
    DJariium
    Husky Loops
    Paul Hartnoll
    Finley Quaye
    Young Fathers
    Dave Thomas Junior
    Light Asylum
    Nitin Sawhney
    Elbow
    Unkle
    Kerli
    Wankelmut
    Leftfield
    X Ambassadors
    Silver Mt Zion
    FKA Twigs
    Covenant
    Shawn Lee's Ping Pong Orchestra
    The Allergies
    Michel Kiwanuka
    Dennis Lloyd
    Robert Levon Been
    Maribou State
    The Cinematic Orchestra
    Molotov Jukebox

    Something there for everything. You might think you recognise some of it/it's derivative of course you might but then welcome to pop music for the past 70 years.

    And that's to exclude the superstars - eg Kanye, Rihanna, Adele, Lizzo, etc, or, say, Grime.

    You need to get out more, take the Chris de Burgh tape off loop and start shazaming your way to find some new music.
    Wet Leg‘s first two singles were amongst the best of any I’ve heard for 30 or more years.



    OK let’s analysis this. i know Wet Leg, they are OK

    Here’s their first single. Chaise Longue

    https://youtu.be/Zd9jeJk2UHQ

    Pleasantly monotonous. Quirky. But “among the best singles of the last 30 years” is absolutely farcical. For a start, compare it with this song, Yellow Horse by Cowboy Racer


    https://youtu.be/5rdW_0c6zvY


    I submit they are almost identical, the deadpan approach, the slightly off key female vocals, the deliberate flatness of affect, the eccentric lyrics. The different is that Yellow Horse is better, funnier, sexier. Written 17 years ago
    Nothing the Flying Lizards weren't doing in 1979.... In 2 minutes 30.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-P2qL3qkzk

    Indeed, also very similar and even earlier

    This is yet another one of the problems faced by popular musicians. Almost everything - in terms of style, attitude, subversion - has been done, and at the same time almost every chord progression has been explored, every percussive rhythm banged out. Music is not infinite

    Classical music faced the same problem in the early 20th century, and so it went down the rabbit hole of atonality, whence it has never really emerged, or recovered
  • vikvik Posts: 159
    HYUFD said:

    In Americaland, a rerun of 2020 looks more likely after the weekend.

    Donald Trump showed he retains his wit and charisma in a speech lasting over an hour and a half.
    https://youtu.be/ahnwKC4xydc

    Joe Biden finally got his $700 billion Inflation Reduction Act through the Senate.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-62457386

    Depends what happens in November, if the GOP win both Chambers of Congress and win big Trump definitely runs again in 2024. If the Democrats hold the Senate he might not.

    Trump blamed Biden for Afghanistan, Russia invading Ukraine and China threatening Taiwan. He also blamed Biden and the Democrats Green New Deal for being a key factor in rising inflation.

    If Biden doesn't run again then as I have said before Buttigieg is a good bet
    Trump will almost certainly run again (his health permitting) irrespective of whether the GOP wins Congress & the Senate.

    He has nothing better to do & has no interest in spending the rest of his years being an "elder stateman" like other ex-Presidents.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    vik said:

    FPT:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:


    For instance, democracy is in retreat. And has been for many years. Do you get out much?


    “In 2018, Freedom in the World recorded the 13th consecutive year of decline in global freedom. The reversal has spanned a variety of countries in every region, from long-standing democracies like the United States to consolidated authoritarian regimes like China and Russia. The overall losses are still shallow compared with the gains of the late 20th century, but the pattern is consistent and ominous. Democracy is in retreat.”

    https://freedomhouse.org/report/freedom-world/2019/democracy-retreat

    That was in 2019. Do you think it’s got better since then? No, neither do I

    That’s a random think-tank opinion piece trying to push a narrative, rather than a scientific study. The last few years have shown that, in countries like the USA, democracy has very much prevailed over those who said it woundn’t.

    China and Russia never had anything but a fig-leaf of democracy anyway.
    Democracy prevailed in 2019, but there are questions about whether it'll prevail in the future.

    The MAGA forces are very busy trying to get "Stop the Steal" supporters elected into key Secretary of State and Governor positions in various states.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2022/07/19/magazine/stop-the-steal.html
    Trump is going to be the next president. Win, lose of draw. The actual election result is probably irrelevant at this point. He did look like fucking shit at that Saudi golf thing thought so maybe he is dying.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,923
    vik said:

    HYUFD said:

    In Americaland, a rerun of 2020 looks more likely after the weekend.

    Donald Trump showed he retains his wit and charisma in a speech lasting over an hour and a half.
    https://youtu.be/ahnwKC4xydc

    Joe Biden finally got his $700 billion Inflation Reduction Act through the Senate.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-62457386

    Depends what happens in November, if the GOP win both Chambers of Congress and win big Trump definitely runs again in 2024. If the Democrats hold the Senate he might not.

    Trump blamed Biden for Afghanistan, Russia invading Ukraine and China threatening Taiwan. He also blamed Biden and the Democrats Green New Deal for being a key factor in rising inflation.

    If Biden doesn't run again then as I have said before Buttigieg is a good bet
    Trump will almost certainly run again (his health permitting) irrespective of whether the GOP wins Congress & the Senate.

    He has nothing better to do & has no interest in spending the rest of his years being an "elder stateman" like other ex-Presidents.
    He won't unless he thinks he can win or at least overturn the EC vote in both Chambers of Congress
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,361
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    TOPPING said:

    fpt

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Oh go on @Scott_P, educate me.

    Look at it this way.

    How much of the kit you bought in the 90's would still be part of your system today (notwithstanding the voltage issues) ?
    Richer Sounds always did decent kit, and it lasts well. My Marantz amp from there must be 25 years old.

    There is good new music now, despite what grandpa Leon was saying last night while showing his slides. I am a fan of Molchat Doma for example.

    https://youtu.be/s1ATTIQrmIQ
    I’m not just emotionally and artistically correct, I can scientifically prove I’m correct. Music is decreasing in complexity and variety, songs are more formulaic, lyrics are more repetitive and mundane. Music is getting worse

    https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/is-pop-music-evolving-or-is-it-just-getting-louder/


    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/science-proves-pop-music-has-actually-gotten-worse-8173368/

    https://arxiv.org/pdf/1907.04292.pdf

    https://www.mic.com/articles/107896/scientists-finally-prove-why-pop-music-all-sounds-the-same


    https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0115255
    You old git.

    On my playlist:

    Mazzy Star
    Quantic
    Tash Sultana
    DJariium
    Husky Loops
    Paul Hartnoll
    Finley Quaye
    Young Fathers
    Dave Thomas Junior
    Light Asylum
    Nitin Sawhney
    Elbow
    Unkle
    Kerli
    Wankelmut
    Leftfield
    X Ambassadors
    Silver Mt Zion
    FKA Twigs
    Covenant
    Shawn Lee's Ping Pong Orchestra
    The Allergies
    Michel Kiwanuka
    Dennis Lloyd
    Robert Levon Been
    Maribou State
    The Cinematic Orchestra
    Molotov Jukebox

    Something there for everything. You might think you recognise some of it/it's derivative of course you might but then welcome to pop music for the past 70 years.

    And that's to exclude the superstars - eg Kanye, Rihanna, Adele, Lizzo, etc, or, say, Grime.

    You need to get out more, take the Chris de Burgh tape off loop and start shazaming your way to find some new music.
    Wet Leg‘s first two singles were amongst the best of any I’ve heard for 30 or more years.



    OK let’s analysis this. i know Wet Leg, they are OK

    Here’s their first single. Chaise Longue

    https://youtu.be/Zd9jeJk2UHQ

    Pleasantly monotonous. Quirky. But “among the best singles of the last 30 years” is absolutely farcical. For a start, compare it with this song, Yellow Horse by Cowboy Racer


    https://youtu.be/5rdW_0c6zvY


    I submit they are almost identical, the deadpan approach, the slightly off key female vocals, the deliberate flatness of affect, the eccentric lyrics. The different is that Yellow Horse is better, funnier, sexier. Written 17 years ago
    Nothing the Flying Lizards weren't doing in 1979.... In 2 minutes 30.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-P2qL3qkzk

    Indeed, also very similar and even earlier

    This is yet another one of the problems faced by popular musicians. Almost everything - in terms of style, attitude, subversion - has been done, and at the same time almost every chord progression has been explored, every percussive rhythm banged out. Music is not infinite

    Classical music faced the same problem in the early 20th century, and so it went down the rabbit hole of atonality, whence it has never really emerged, or recovered
    A limited number of chord progressions is not a limitation on pop music, as you'd know if you knew anything.

    As you are always reminding us, English is a living, evolving language. An evolving language will always create new songs for new experiences.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957
    edited August 2022
    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    fpt

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Oh go on @Scott_P, educate me.

    Look at it this way.

    How much of the kit you bought in the 90's would still be part of your system today (notwithstanding the voltage issues) ?
    Richer Sounds always did decent kit, and it lasts well. My Marantz amp from there must be 25 years old.

    There is good new music now, despite what grandpa Leon was saying last night while showing his slides. I am a fan of Molchat Doma for example.

    https://youtu.be/s1ATTIQrmIQ
    I’m not just emotionally and artistically correct, I can scientifically prove I’m correct. Music is decreasing in complexity and variety, songs are more formulaic, lyrics are more repetitive and mundane. Music is getting worse

    https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/is-pop-music-evolving-or-is-it-just-getting-louder/


    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/science-proves-pop-music-has-actually-gotten-worse-8173368/

    https://arxiv.org/pdf/1907.04292.pdf

    https://www.mic.com/articles/107896/scientists-finally-prove-why-pop-music-all-sounds-the-same


    https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0115255
    You old git.

    On my playlist:

    Mazzy Star
    Quantic
    Tash Sultana
    DJariium
    Husky Loops
    Paul Hartnoll
    Finley Quaye
    Young Fathers
    Dave Thomas Junior
    Light Asylum
    Nitin Sawhney
    Elbow
    Unkle
    Kerli
    Wankelmut
    Leftfield
    X Ambassadors
    Silver Mt Zion
    FKA Twigs
    Covenant
    Shawn Lee's Ping Pong Orchestra
    The Allergies
    Michel Kiwanuka
    Dennis Lloyd
    Robert Levon Been
    Maribou State
    The Cinematic Orchestra
    Molotov Jukebox

    Something there for everything. You might think you recognise some of it/it's derivative of course you might but then welcome to pop music for the past 70 years.

    And that's to exclude the superstars - eg Kanye, Rihanna, Adele, Lizzo, etc, or, say, Grime.

    You need to get out more, take the Chris de Burgh tape off loop and start shazaming your way to find some new music.
    OMG you cut and pasted it AGAIN. The most poignantly embarrassing I-am-not-old list in the history of PB

    Can you give us a three hundred page memoir of all your “face to face encounters with grime”, and maybe a hand filmed cinema verite docudrama about your experiments doing Phenibut in your council flat in Northumberland Park?
    Twat x2.

    As I said I wouldn't know those bands if they were carving a dildo in front of me. I just Shazam anything I like and add it to a playlist (that same playlist includes Guitar Man and Calling Occupants...).

    The point is that those ones I painstakingly typed out are, in your parlance, modern beat combos.

    Put Shazam on your home screen (do Nokia 6233s have home screens?) and start exploring.
    You seem oddly stung by my criticism. I can’t imagine why
    I am wholly unstung by your criticism. I am explaining, painfully it turns out because it is a simple enough point, that there is plenty of modern music around now that is great and that it has historically been the case that the older generation (ie you) bemoans the "youth of today" in various cultural areas.

    That you are turning into your father (you wish) seems to be meanwhile what is irking you.
    “My face to face encounters with grime via the medium of modern British drama” by “Topping” is possibly one of my favourite sentences ever written on PB
    I'm glad you think so. Let's unpick it.

    What are some cracking British dramas of the past few months and years - Top Boy, Blue Story, Pirates, Attack the Block, Ill Manors, Small Axe, My Brother the Devil, etc.

    Those, to use a literary flourish (ask someone), put you "face to face" with grime and related subcultures.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    TOPPING said:

    fpt

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Oh go on @Scott_P, educate me.

    Look at it this way.

    How much of the kit you bought in the 90's would still be part of your system today (notwithstanding the voltage issues) ?
    Richer Sounds always did decent kit, and it lasts well. My Marantz amp from there must be 25 years old.

    There is good new music now, despite what grandpa Leon was saying last night while showing his slides. I am a fan of Molchat Doma for example.

    https://youtu.be/s1ATTIQrmIQ
    I’m not just emotionally and artistically correct, I can scientifically prove I’m correct. Music is decreasing in complexity and variety, songs are more formulaic, lyrics are more repetitive and mundane. Music is getting worse

    https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/is-pop-music-evolving-or-is-it-just-getting-louder/


    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/science-proves-pop-music-has-actually-gotten-worse-8173368/

    https://arxiv.org/pdf/1907.04292.pdf

    https://www.mic.com/articles/107896/scientists-finally-prove-why-pop-music-all-sounds-the-same


    https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0115255
    You old git.

    On my playlist:

    Mazzy Star
    Quantic
    Tash Sultana
    DJariium
    Husky Loops
    Paul Hartnoll
    Finley Quaye
    Young Fathers
    Dave Thomas Junior
    Light Asylum
    Nitin Sawhney
    Elbow
    Unkle
    Kerli
    Wankelmut
    Leftfield
    X Ambassadors
    Silver Mt Zion
    FKA Twigs
    Covenant
    Shawn Lee's Ping Pong Orchestra
    The Allergies
    Michel Kiwanuka
    Dennis Lloyd
    Robert Levon Been
    Maribou State
    The Cinematic Orchestra
    Molotov Jukebox

    Something there for everything. You might think you recognise some of it/it's derivative of course you might but then welcome to pop music for the past 70 years.

    And that's to exclude the superstars - eg Kanye, Rihanna, Adele, Lizzo, etc, or, say, Grime.

    You need to get out more, take the Chris de Burgh tape off loop and start shazaming your way to find some new music.
    Wet Leg‘s first two singles were amongst the best of any I’ve heard for 30 or more years.



    OK let’s analysis this. i know Wet Leg, they are OK

    Here’s their first single. Chaise Longue

    https://youtu.be/Zd9jeJk2UHQ

    Pleasantly monotonous. Quirky. But “among the best singles of the last 30 years” is absolutely farcical. For a start, compare it with this song, Yellow Horse by Cowboy Racer


    https://youtu.be/5rdW_0c6zvY


    I submit they are almost identical, the deadpan approach, the slightly off key female vocals, the deliberate flatness of affect, the eccentric lyrics. The different is that Yellow Horse is better, funnier, sexier. Written 17 years ago
    Nothing the Flying Lizards weren't doing in 1979.... In 2 minutes 30.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-P2qL3qkzk

    Indeed, also very similar and even earlier

    This is yet another one of the problems faced by popular musicians. Almost everything - in terms of style, attitude, subversion - has been done, and at the same time almost every chord progression has been explored, every percussive rhythm banged out. Music is not infinite

    Classical music faced the same problem in the early 20th century, and so it went down the rabbit hole of atonality, whence it has never really emerged, or recovered
    A limited number of chord progressions is not a limitation on pop music, as you'd know if you knew anything.

    As you are always reminding us, English is a living, evolving language. An evolving language will always create new songs for new experiences.
    I think @Leon is raging against the dying of the light and we should therefore be sympathetic.
  • Pulpstar said:

    Alistair said:

    There is nothing more toe curlingly cringe than an old person trying to justify why they think the kids of today have an inferior pop culture.

    Unless you think pop culture always has a constant standard or keeps getting better and better then it must sometimes be true that the present is inferior to the past.
    TV drama is holding it's own against the past but pop music isn't.
    Is it? I see your Scandi noir but where is the modern day Cathy Come Home or even The Sweeney which altered the zeitgeist or Inspector Morse which generated its own tourist industry (like that thing in Provence whose name escapes me) or Brideshead Revisited which inspired the cohort of Oxonians who governed the country for the past decade?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,291

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    TOPPING said:

    fpt

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Oh go on @Scott_P, educate me.

    Look at it this way.

    How much of the kit you bought in the 90's would still be part of your system today (notwithstanding the voltage issues) ?
    Richer Sounds always did decent kit, and it lasts well. My Marantz amp from there must be 25 years old.

    There is good new music now, despite what grandpa Leon was saying last night while showing his slides. I am a fan of Molchat Doma for example.

    https://youtu.be/s1ATTIQrmIQ
    I’m not just emotionally and artistically correct, I can scientifically prove I’m correct. Music is decreasing in complexity and variety, songs are more formulaic, lyrics are more repetitive and mundane. Music is getting worse

    https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/is-pop-music-evolving-or-is-it-just-getting-louder/


    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/science-proves-pop-music-has-actually-gotten-worse-8173368/

    https://arxiv.org/pdf/1907.04292.pdf

    https://www.mic.com/articles/107896/scientists-finally-prove-why-pop-music-all-sounds-the-same


    https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0115255
    You old git.

    On my playlist:

    Mazzy Star
    Quantic
    Tash Sultana
    DJariium
    Husky Loops
    Paul Hartnoll
    Finley Quaye
    Young Fathers
    Dave Thomas Junior
    Light Asylum
    Nitin Sawhney
    Elbow
    Unkle
    Kerli
    Wankelmut
    Leftfield
    X Ambassadors
    Silver Mt Zion
    FKA Twigs
    Covenant
    Shawn Lee's Ping Pong Orchestra
    The Allergies
    Michel Kiwanuka
    Dennis Lloyd
    Robert Levon Been
    Maribou State
    The Cinematic Orchestra
    Molotov Jukebox

    Something there for everything. You might think you recognise some of it/it's derivative of course you might but then welcome to pop music for the past 70 years.

    And that's to exclude the superstars - eg Kanye, Rihanna, Adele, Lizzo, etc, or, say, Grime.

    You need to get out more, take the Chris de Burgh tape off loop and start shazaming your way to find some new music.
    Wet Leg‘s first two singles were amongst the best of any I’ve heard for 30 or more years.



    OK let’s analysis this. i know Wet Leg, they are OK

    Here’s their first single. Chaise Longue

    https://youtu.be/Zd9jeJk2UHQ

    Pleasantly monotonous. Quirky. But “among the best singles of the last 30 years” is absolutely farcical. For a start, compare it with this song, Yellow Horse by Cowboy Racer


    https://youtu.be/5rdW_0c6zvY


    I submit they are almost identical, the deadpan approach, the slightly off key female vocals, the deliberate flatness of affect, the eccentric lyrics. The different is that Yellow Horse is better, funnier, sexier. Written 17 years ago
    Nothing the Flying Lizards weren't doing in 1979.... In 2 minutes 30.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-P2qL3qkzk

    Indeed, also very similar and even earlier

    This is yet another one of the problems faced by popular musicians. Almost everything - in terms of style, attitude, subversion - has been done, and at the same time almost every chord progression has been explored, every percussive rhythm banged out. Music is not infinite

    Classical music faced the same problem in the early 20th century, and so it went down the rabbit hole of atonality, whence it has never really emerged, or recovered
    A limited number of chord progressions is not a limitation on pop music, as you'd know if you knew anything.

    As you are always reminding us, English is a living, evolving language. An evolving language will always create new songs for new experiences.
    It absolutely is a limit unless music lurches into atonality

    AI can now write every conceivable song using the western musical scale

    “The AI software that could turn you in to a music star

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-59878572


    “You can do things such as add or strip-out instruments, change the tempo, adjust the volumes, add echoes, make everything sound brighter or softer, and lay down some vocals.

    California-based, Boomy, was launched at the end of 2018, and claims its users around the world have now created almost five million songs.”

    Five million. And this is only going to grow

    With people making billions of songs a year we will exhaust the possibilities fast

    Of course you can vary the presentation, the lyrics, instruments etc but it eventually becomes mere tweaking
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    TOPPING said:

    fpt

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Oh go on @Scott_P, educate me.

    Look at it this way.

    How much of the kit you bought in the 90's would still be part of your system today (notwithstanding the voltage issues) ?
    Richer Sounds always did decent kit, and it lasts well. My Marantz amp from there must be 25 years old.

    There is good new music now, despite what grandpa Leon was saying last night while showing his slides. I am a fan of Molchat Doma for example.

    https://youtu.be/s1ATTIQrmIQ
    I’m not just emotionally and artistically correct, I can scientifically prove I’m correct. Music is decreasing in complexity and variety, songs are more formulaic, lyrics are more repetitive and mundane. Music is getting worse

    https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/is-pop-music-evolving-or-is-it-just-getting-louder/


    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/science-proves-pop-music-has-actually-gotten-worse-8173368/

    https://arxiv.org/pdf/1907.04292.pdf

    https://www.mic.com/articles/107896/scientists-finally-prove-why-pop-music-all-sounds-the-same


    https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0115255
    You old git.

    On my playlist:

    Mazzy Star
    Quantic
    Tash Sultana
    DJariium
    Husky Loops
    Paul Hartnoll
    Finley Quaye
    Young Fathers
    Dave Thomas Junior
    Light Asylum
    Nitin Sawhney
    Elbow
    Unkle
    Kerli
    Wankelmut
    Leftfield
    X Ambassadors
    Silver Mt Zion
    FKA Twigs
    Covenant
    Shawn Lee's Ping Pong Orchestra
    The Allergies
    Michel Kiwanuka
    Dennis Lloyd
    Robert Levon Been
    Maribou State
    The Cinematic Orchestra
    Molotov Jukebox

    Something there for everything. You might think you recognise some of it/it's derivative of course you might but then welcome to pop music for the past 70 years.

    And that's to exclude the superstars - eg Kanye, Rihanna, Adele, Lizzo, etc, or, say, Grime.

    You need to get out more, take the Chris de Burgh tape off loop and start shazaming your way to find some new music.
    Wet Leg‘s first two singles were amongst the best of any I’ve heard for 30 or more years.



    OK let’s analysis this. i know Wet Leg, they are OK

    Here’s their first single. Chaise Longue

    https://youtu.be/Zd9jeJk2UHQ

    Pleasantly monotonous. Quirky. But “among the best singles of the last 30 years” is absolutely farcical. For a start, compare it with this song, Yellow Horse by Cowboy Racer

    https://youtu.be/5rdW_0c6zv


    I submit they are almost identical, the deadpan approach, the slightly off key female vocals, the deliberate flatness of affect, the eccentric lyrics. The different is that Yellow Horse is better, funnier, sexier. Written 17 years ago
    Are you f’ing kidding me? The double entendre in the first verse of Chaise Longue alone is simultaneously funnier and sexier than the whole of Yellow Horse. There are acts out there that might disprove my thesis - but Cowboy Racer sure isn’t one of them.
    The bands are so similar - sound, presentation, theme - Cowboy Racer should sue

    And besides, it is you making the outrageous claim: that Wet Leg have produced “two of the best singles of the last 30 years”. It is comically absurd. And what is this amazing double entendre? Buttered muffin? It’s been street slang for decades

    https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=buttered muffin
    That’s later in the song and is a line from Mean Girls, as has been well observed already - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-59331835

    The one in the first verse (that seems to have gone right over your head) is simply funnier and sexier than anything by Cowboy Racer, who in turn should be sued by Flying Lizards if you’re into that kind of thing. And Nirvana should have been sued by Killing Joke for ripping off the riff from “Eighties”. While George Harrison was actually sued for ripping off the Chiffons. Etc etc. Boring.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,012
    edited August 2022
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    TOPPING said:

    fpt

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Oh go on @Scott_P, educate me.

    Look at it this way.

    How much of the kit you bought in the 90's would still be part of your system today (notwithstanding the voltage issues) ?
    Richer Sounds always did decent kit, and it lasts well. My Marantz amp from there must be 25 years old.

    There is good new music now, despite what grandpa Leon was saying last night while showing his slides. I am a fan of Molchat Doma for example.

    https://youtu.be/s1ATTIQrmIQ
    I’m not just emotionally and artistically correct, I can scientifically prove I’m correct. Music is decreasing in complexity and variety, songs are more formulaic, lyrics are more repetitive and mundane. Music is getting worse

    https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/is-pop-music-evolving-or-is-it-just-getting-louder/


    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/science-proves-pop-music-has-actually-gotten-worse-8173368/

    https://arxiv.org/pdf/1907.04292.pdf

    https://www.mic.com/articles/107896/scientists-finally-prove-why-pop-music-all-sounds-the-same


    https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0115255
    You old git.

    On my playlist:

    Mazzy Star
    Quantic
    Tash Sultana
    DJariium
    Husky Loops
    Paul Hartnoll
    Finley Quaye
    Young Fathers
    Dave Thomas Junior
    Light Asylum
    Nitin Sawhney
    Elbow
    Unkle
    Kerli
    Wankelmut
    Leftfield
    X Ambassadors
    Silver Mt Zion
    FKA Twigs
    Covenant
    Shawn Lee's Ping Pong Orchestra
    The Allergies
    Michel Kiwanuka
    Dennis Lloyd
    Robert Levon Been
    Maribou State
    The Cinematic Orchestra
    Molotov Jukebox

    Something there for everything. You might think you recognise some of it/it's derivative of course you might but then welcome to pop music for the past 70 years.

    And that's to exclude the superstars - eg Kanye, Rihanna, Adele, Lizzo, etc, or, say, Grime.

    You need to get out more, take the Chris de Burgh tape off loop and start shazaming your way to find some new music.
    Wet Leg‘s first two singles were amongst the best of any I’ve heard for 30 or more years.



    OK let’s analysis this. i know Wet Leg, they are OK

    Here’s their first single. Chaise Longue

    https://youtu.be/Zd9jeJk2UHQ

    Pleasantly monotonous. Quirky. But “among the best singles of the last 30 years” is absolutely farcical. For a start, compare it with this song, Yellow Horse by Cowboy Racer


    https://youtu.be/5rdW_0c6zvY


    I submit they are almost identical, the deadpan approach, the slightly off key female vocals, the deliberate flatness of affect, the eccentric lyrics. The different is that Yellow Horse is better, funnier, sexier. Written 17 years ago
    Nothing the Flying Lizards weren't doing in 1979.... In 2 minutes 30.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-P2qL3qkzk

    Indeed, also very similar and even earlier

    This is yet another one of the problems faced by popular musicians. Almost everything - in terms of style, attitude, subversion - has been done, and at the same time almost every chord progression has been explored, every percussive rhythm banged out. Music is not infinite

    Classical music faced the same problem in the early 20th century, and so it went down the rabbit hole of atonality, whence it has never really emerged, or recovered
    A limited number of chord progressions is not a limitation on pop music, as you'd know if you knew anything.

    As you are always reminding us, English is a living, evolving language. An evolving language will always create new songs for new experiences.
    It absolutely is a limit unless music lurches into atonality

    AI can now write every conceivable song using the western musical scale

    “The AI software that could turn you in to a music star

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-59878572


    “You can do things such as add or strip-out instruments, change the tempo, adjust the volumes, add echoes, make everything sound brighter or softer, and lay down some vocals.

    California-based, Boomy, was launched at the end of 2018, and claims its users around the world have now created almost five million songs.”

    Five million. And this is only going to grow

    With people making billions of songs a year we will exhaust the possibilities fast

    Of course you can vary the presentation, the lyrics, instruments etc but it eventually becomes mere tweaking
    One interesting thing I heard a well known rock producer say is that with the evolution of technology not only everything gets auto-tuned etc, but they as standard now will not even have the drummer play the full track, instead just use the tech to fill the loop from a tiny bit. With this you lose that subtle changes / differences in beat and intensity, sometimes they were on purpose, sometimes accidentally but added soul to the music....rather akin to the uncanny valley of CGI, the random imperfections of reality are more pleasant to our senses.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    Alistair said:

    There is nothing more toe curlingly cringe than an old person trying to justify why they think the kids of today have an inferior pop culture.

    Unless you think pop culture always has a constant standard or keeps getting better and better then it must sometimes be true that the present is inferior to the past.
    Empirically it all peaked with the release of Alabama 3's Exile on Cold Harbour Lane in 1997 but who am I to judge the yoof today or indeed yesteryear.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,291
    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    TOPPING said:

    fpt

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Oh go on @Scott_P, educate me.

    Look at it this way.

    How much of the kit you bought in the 90's would still be part of your system today (notwithstanding the voltage issues) ?
    Richer Sounds always did decent kit, and it lasts well. My Marantz amp from there must be 25 years old.

    There is good new music now, despite what grandpa Leon was saying last night while showing his slides. I am a fan of Molchat Doma for example.

    https://youtu.be/s1ATTIQrmIQ
    I’m not just emotionally and artistically correct, I can scientifically prove I’m correct. Music is decreasing in complexity and variety, songs are more formulaic, lyrics are more repetitive and mundane. Music is getting worse

    https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/is-pop-music-evolving-or-is-it-just-getting-louder/


    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/science-proves-pop-music-has-actually-gotten-worse-8173368/

    https://arxiv.org/pdf/1907.04292.pdf

    https://www.mic.com/articles/107896/scientists-finally-prove-why-pop-music-all-sounds-the-same


    https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0115255
    You old git.

    On my playlist:

    Mazzy Star
    Quantic
    Tash Sultana
    DJariium
    Husky Loops
    Paul Hartnoll
    Finley Quaye
    Young Fathers
    Dave Thomas Junior
    Light Asylum
    Nitin Sawhney
    Elbow
    Unkle
    Kerli
    Wankelmut
    Leftfield
    X Ambassadors
    Silver Mt Zion
    FKA Twigs
    Covenant
    Shawn Lee's Ping Pong Orchestra
    The Allergies
    Michel Kiwanuka
    Dennis Lloyd
    Robert Levon Been
    Maribou State
    The Cinematic Orchestra
    Molotov Jukebox

    Something there for everything. You might think you recognise some of it/it's derivative of course you might but then welcome to pop music for the past 70 years.

    And that's to exclude the superstars - eg Kanye, Rihanna, Adele, Lizzo, etc, or, say, Grime.

    You need to get out more, take the Chris de Burgh tape off loop and start shazaming your way to find some new music.
    Wet Leg‘s first two singles were amongst the best of any I’ve heard for 30 or more years.



    OK let’s analysis this. i know Wet Leg, they are OK

    Here’s their first single. Chaise Longue

    https://youtu.be/Zd9jeJk2UHQ

    Pleasantly monotonous. Quirky. But “among the best singles of the last 30 years” is absolutely farcical. For a start, compare it with this song, Yellow Horse by Cowboy Racer

    https://youtu.be/5rdW_0c6zv


    I submit they are almost identical, the deadpan approach, the slightly off key female vocals, the deliberate flatness of affect, the eccentric lyrics. The different is that Yellow Horse is better, funnier, sexier. Written 17 years ago
    Are you f’ing kidding me? The double entendre in the first verse of Chaise Longue alone is simultaneously funnier and sexier than the whole of Yellow Horse. There are acts out there that might disprove my thesis - but Cowboy Racer sure isn’t one of them.
    The bands are so similar - sound, presentation, theme - Cowboy Racer should sue

    And besides, it is you making the outrageous claim: that Wet Leg have produced “two of the best singles of the last 30 years”. It is comically absurd. And what is this amazing double entendre? Buttered muffin? It’s been street slang for decades

    https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=buttered muffin
    That’s later in the song and is a line from Mean Girls, as has been well observed already - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-59331835

    The one in the first verse (that seems to have gone right over your head) is simply funnier and sexier than anything by Cowboy Racer, who in turn should be sued by Flying Lizards if you’re into that kind of thing. And Nirvana should have been sued by Killing Joke for ripping off the riff from “Eighties”. While George Harrison was actually sued for ripping off the Chiffons. Etc etc. Boring.
    Do tell us about this amazing double entendre, Big Doug Seal
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957
    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    TOPPING said:

    fpt

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Oh go on @Scott_P, educate me.

    Look at it this way.

    How much of the kit you bought in the 90's would still be part of your system today (notwithstanding the voltage issues) ?
    Richer Sounds always did decent kit, and it lasts well. My Marantz amp from there must be 25 years old.

    There is good new music now, despite what grandpa Leon was saying last night while showing his slides. I am a fan of Molchat Doma for example.

    https://youtu.be/s1ATTIQrmIQ
    I’m not just emotionally and artistically correct, I can scientifically prove I’m correct. Music is decreasing in complexity and variety, songs are more formulaic, lyrics are more repetitive and mundane. Music is getting worse

    https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/is-pop-music-evolving-or-is-it-just-getting-louder/


    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/science-proves-pop-music-has-actually-gotten-worse-8173368/

    https://arxiv.org/pdf/1907.04292.pdf

    https://www.mic.com/articles/107896/scientists-finally-prove-why-pop-music-all-sounds-the-same


    https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0115255
    You old git.

    On my playlist:

    Mazzy Star
    Quantic
    Tash Sultana
    DJariium
    Husky Loops
    Paul Hartnoll
    Finley Quaye
    Young Fathers
    Dave Thomas Junior
    Light Asylum
    Nitin Sawhney
    Elbow
    Unkle
    Kerli
    Wankelmut
    Leftfield
    X Ambassadors
    Silver Mt Zion
    FKA Twigs
    Covenant
    Shawn Lee's Ping Pong Orchestra
    The Allergies
    Michel Kiwanuka
    Dennis Lloyd
    Robert Levon Been
    Maribou State
    The Cinematic Orchestra
    Molotov Jukebox

    Something there for everything. You might think you recognise some of it/it's derivative of course you might but then welcome to pop music for the past 70 years.

    And that's to exclude the superstars - eg Kanye, Rihanna, Adele, Lizzo, etc, or, say, Grime.

    You need to get out more, take the Chris de Burgh tape off loop and start shazaming your way to find some new music.
    Wet Leg‘s first two singles were amongst the best of any I’ve heard for 30 or more years.



    OK let’s analysis this. i know Wet Leg, they are OK

    Here’s their first single. Chaise Longue

    https://youtu.be/Zd9jeJk2UHQ

    Pleasantly monotonous. Quirky. But “among the best singles of the last 30 years” is absolutely farcical. For a start, compare it with this song, Yellow Horse by Cowboy Racer

    https://youtu.be/5rdW_0c6zv


    I submit they are almost identical, the deadpan approach, the slightly off key female vocals, the deliberate flatness of affect, the eccentric lyrics. The different is that Yellow Horse is better, funnier, sexier. Written 17 years ago
    Are you f’ing kidding me? The double entendre in the first verse of Chaise Longue alone is simultaneously funnier and sexier than the whole of Yellow Horse. There are acts out there that might disprove my thesis - but Cowboy Racer sure isn’t one of them.
    The bands are so similar - sound, presentation, theme - Cowboy Racer should sue

    And besides, it is you making the outrageous claim: that Wet Leg have produced “two of the best singles of the last 30 years”. It is comically absurd. And what is this amazing double entendre? Buttered muffin? It’s been street slang for decades

    https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=buttered muffin
    That’s later in the song and is a line from Mean Girls, as has been well observed already - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-59331835

    The one in the first verse (that seems to have gone right over your head) is simply funnier and sexier than anything by Cowboy Racer, who in turn should be sued by Flying Lizards if you’re into that kind of thing. And Nirvana should have been sued by Killing Joke for ripping off the riff from “Eighties”. While George Harrison was actually sued for ripping off the Chiffons. Etc etc. Boring.
    Do tell us about this amazing double entendre, Big Doug Seal
    For someone who accuses others of desperately trying to prove that they are in the know and "with it" you do an awful lot of desperately trying to prove that you are in the know and "with it".
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    TOPPING said:

    fpt

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Oh go on @Scott_P, educate me.

    Look at it this way.

    How much of the kit you bought in the 90's would still be part of your system today (notwithstanding the voltage issues) ?
    Richer Sounds always did decent kit, and it lasts well. My Marantz amp from there must be 25 years old.

    There is good new music now, despite what grandpa Leon was saying last night while showing his slides. I am a fan of Molchat Doma for example.

    https://youtu.be/s1ATTIQrmIQ
    I’m not just emotionally and artistically correct, I can scientifically prove I’m correct. Music is decreasing in complexity and variety, songs are more formulaic, lyrics are more repetitive and mundane. Music is getting worse

    https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/is-pop-music-evolving-or-is-it-just-getting-louder/


    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/science-proves-pop-music-has-actually-gotten-worse-8173368/

    https://arxiv.org/pdf/1907.04292.pdf

    https://www.mic.com/articles/107896/scientists-finally-prove-why-pop-music-all-sounds-the-same


    https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0115255
    You old git.

    On my playlist:

    Mazzy Star
    Quantic
    Tash Sultana
    DJariium
    Husky Loops
    Paul Hartnoll
    Finley Quaye
    Young Fathers
    Dave Thomas Junior
    Light Asylum
    Nitin Sawhney
    Elbow
    Unkle
    Kerli
    Wankelmut
    Leftfield
    X Ambassadors
    Silver Mt Zion
    FKA Twigs
    Covenant
    Shawn Lee's Ping Pong Orchestra
    The Allergies
    Michel Kiwanuka
    Dennis Lloyd
    Robert Levon Been
    Maribou State
    The Cinematic Orchestra
    Molotov Jukebox

    Something there for everything. You might think you recognise some of it/it's derivative of course you might but then welcome to pop music for the past 70 years.

    And that's to exclude the superstars - eg Kanye, Rihanna, Adele, Lizzo, etc, or, say, Grime.

    You need to get out more, take the Chris de Burgh tape off loop and start shazaming your way to find some new music.
    Wet Leg‘s first two singles were amongst the best of any I’ve heard for 30 or more years.



    OK let’s analysis this. i know Wet Leg, they are OK

    Here’s their first single. Chaise Longue

    https://youtu.be/Zd9jeJk2UHQ

    Pleasantly monotonous. Quirky. But “among the best singles of the last 30 years” is absolutely farcical. For a start, compare it with this song, Yellow Horse by Cowboy Racer

    https://youtu.be/5rdW_0c6zv


    I submit they are almost identical, the deadpan approach, the slightly off key female vocals, the deliberate flatness of affect, the eccentric lyrics. The different is that Yellow Horse is better, funnier, sexier. Written 17 years ago
    Are you f’ing kidding me? The double entendre in the first verse of Chaise Longue alone is simultaneously funnier and sexier than the whole of Yellow Horse. There are acts out there that might disprove my thesis - but Cowboy Racer sure isn’t one of them.
    The bands are so similar - sound, presentation, theme - Cowboy Racer should sue

    And besides, it is you making the outrageous claim: that Wet Leg have produced “two of the best singles of the last 30 years”. It is comically absurd. And what is this amazing double entendre? Buttered muffin? It’s been street slang for decades

    https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=buttered muffin
    That’s later in the song and is a line from Mean Girls, as has been well observed already - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-59331835

    The one in the first verse (that seems to have gone right over your head) is simply funnier and sexier than anything by Cowboy Racer, who in turn should be sued by Flying Lizards if you’re into that kind of thing. And Nirvana should have been sued by Killing Joke for ripping off the riff from “Eighties”. While George Harrison was actually sued for ripping off the Chiffons. Etc etc. Boring.
    Do tell us about this amazing double entendre, Big Doug Seal
    Pretty punchy this morning, Pa.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    TOPPING said:

    fpt

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Oh go on @Scott_P, educate me.

    Look at it this way.

    How much of the kit you bought in the 90's would still be part of your system today (notwithstanding the voltage issues) ?
    Richer Sounds always did decent kit, and it lasts well. My Marantz amp from there must be 25 years old.

    There is good new music now, despite what grandpa Leon was saying last night while showing his slides. I am a fan of Molchat Doma for example.

    https://youtu.be/s1ATTIQrmIQ
    I’m not just emotionally and artistically correct, I can scientifically prove I’m correct. Music is decreasing in complexity and variety, songs are more formulaic, lyrics are more repetitive and mundane. Music is getting worse

    https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/is-pop-music-evolving-or-is-it-just-getting-louder/


    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/science-proves-pop-music-has-actually-gotten-worse-8173368/

    https://arxiv.org/pdf/1907.04292.pdf

    https://www.mic.com/articles/107896/scientists-finally-prove-why-pop-music-all-sounds-the-same


    https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0115255
    You old git.

    On my playlist:

    Mazzy Star
    Quantic
    Tash Sultana
    DJariium
    Husky Loops
    Paul Hartnoll
    Finley Quaye
    Young Fathers
    Dave Thomas Junior
    Light Asylum
    Nitin Sawhney
    Elbow
    Unkle
    Kerli
    Wankelmut
    Leftfield
    X Ambassadors
    Silver Mt Zion
    FKA Twigs
    Covenant
    Shawn Lee's Ping Pong Orchestra
    The Allergies
    Michel Kiwanuka
    Dennis Lloyd
    Robert Levon Been
    Maribou State
    The Cinematic Orchestra
    Molotov Jukebox

    Something there for everything. You might think you recognise some of it/it's derivative of course you might but then welcome to pop music for the past 70 years.

    And that's to exclude the superstars - eg Kanye, Rihanna, Adele, Lizzo, etc, or, say, Grime.

    You need to get out more, take the Chris de Burgh tape off loop and start shazaming your way to find some new music.
    Wet Leg‘s first two singles were amongst the best of any I’ve heard for 30 or more years.



    OK let’s analysis this. i know Wet Leg, they are OK

    Here’s their first single. Chaise Longue

    https://youtu.be/Zd9jeJk2UHQ

    Pleasantly monotonous. Quirky. But “among the best singles of the last 30 years” is absolutely farcical. For a start, compare it with this song, Yellow Horse by Cowboy Racer


    https://youtu.be/5rdW_0c6zvY


    I submit they are almost identical, the deadpan approach, the slightly off key female vocals, the deliberate flatness of affect, the eccentric lyrics. The different is that Yellow Horse is better, funnier, sexier. Written 17 years ago
    Nothing the Flying Lizards weren't doing in 1979.... In 2 minutes 30.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-P2qL3qkzk

    Indeed, also very similar and even earlier

    This is yet another one of the problems faced by popular musicians. Almost everything - in terms of style, attitude, subversion - has been done, and at the same time almost every chord progression has been explored, every percussive rhythm banged out. Music is not infinite

    Classical music faced the same problem in the early 20th century, and so it went down the rabbit hole of atonality, whence it has never really emerged, or recovered
    A limited number of chord progressions is not a limitation on pop music, as you'd know if you knew anything.

    As you are always reminding us, English is a living, evolving language. An evolving language will always create new songs for new experiences.
    It absolutely is a limit unless music lurches into atonality

    AI can now write every conceivable song using the western musical scale

    “The AI software that could turn you in to a music star

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-59878572


    “You can do things such as add or strip-out instruments, change the tempo, adjust the volumes, add echoes, make everything sound brighter or softer, and lay down some vocals.

    California-based, Boomy, was launched at the end of 2018, and claims its users around the world have now created almost five million songs.”

    Five million. And this is only going to grow

    With people making billions of songs a year we will exhaust the possibilities fast

    Of course you can vary the presentation, the lyrics, instruments etc but it eventually becomes mere tweaking
    One interesting thing I heard a well known rock producer say is that with the evolution of technology not only everything gets auto-tuned etc, but they as standard now will not even have the drummer play the full track, instead just use the tech to fill the loop from a tiny bit. With this you lose that subtle changes / differences in beat and intensity, sometimes they were on purpose, sometimes accidentally but added soul to the music....rather akin to the uncanny valley of CGI, the random imperfections of reality are more pleasant to our senses.
    Can I introduce you to the Roland. There has been an absence of drummers in music for ages.

    Love Drummers Don't Live Here Anymore.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,291
    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    fpt

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Oh go on @Scott_P, educate me.

    Look at it this way.

    How much of the kit you bought in the 90's would still be part of your system today (notwithstanding the voltage issues) ?
    Richer Sounds always did decent kit, and it lasts well. My Marantz amp from there must be 25 years old.

    There is good new music now, despite what grandpa Leon was saying last night while showing his slides. I am a fan of Molchat Doma for example.

    https://youtu.be/s1ATTIQrmIQ
    I’m not just emotionally and artistically correct, I can scientifically prove I’m correct. Music is decreasing in complexity and variety, songs are more formulaic, lyrics are more repetitive and mundane. Music is getting worse

    https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/is-pop-music-evolving-or-is-it-just-getting-louder/


    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/science-proves-pop-music-has-actually-gotten-worse-8173368/

    https://arxiv.org/pdf/1907.04292.pdf

    https://www.mic.com/articles/107896/scientists-finally-prove-why-pop-music-all-sounds-the-same


    https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0115255
    You old git.

    On my playlist:

    Mazzy Star
    Quantic
    Tash Sultana
    DJariium
    Husky Loops
    Paul Hartnoll
    Finley Quaye
    Young Fathers
    Dave Thomas Junior
    Light Asylum
    Nitin Sawhney
    Elbow
    Unkle
    Kerli
    Wankelmut
    Leftfield
    X Ambassadors
    Silver Mt Zion
    FKA Twigs
    Covenant
    Shawn Lee's Ping Pong Orchestra
    The Allergies
    Michel Kiwanuka
    Dennis Lloyd
    Robert Levon Been
    Maribou State
    The Cinematic Orchestra
    Molotov Jukebox

    Something there for everything. You might think you recognise some of it/it's derivative of course you might but then welcome to pop music for the past 70 years.

    And that's to exclude the superstars - eg Kanye, Rihanna, Adele, Lizzo, etc, or, say, Grime.

    You need to get out more, take the Chris de Burgh tape off loop and start shazaming your way to find some new music.
    OMG you cut and pasted it AGAIN. The most poignantly embarrassing I-am-not-old list in the history of PB

    Can you give us a three hundred page memoir of all your “face to face encounters with grime”, and maybe a hand filmed cinema verite docudrama about your experiments doing Phenibut in your council flat in Northumberland Park?
    Twat x2.

    As I said I wouldn't know those bands if they were carving a dildo in front of me. I just Shazam anything I like and add it to a playlist (that same playlist includes Guitar Man and Calling Occupants...).

    The point is that those ones I painstakingly typed out are, in your parlance, modern beat combos.

    Put Shazam on your home screen (do Nokia 6233s have home screens?) and start exploring.
    You seem oddly stung by my criticism. I can’t imagine why
    I am wholly unstung by your criticism. I am explaining, painfully it turns out because it is a simple enough point, that there is plenty of modern music around now that is great and that it has historically been the case that the older generation (ie you) bemoans the "youth of today" in various cultural areas.

    That you are turning into your father (you wish) seems to be meanwhile what is irking you.
    “My face to face encounters with grime via the medium of modern British drama” by “Topping” is possibly one of my favourite sentences ever written on PB
    I'm glad you think so. Let's unpick it.

    What are some cracking British dramas of the past few months and years - Top Boy, Blue Story, Pirates, Attack the Block, Ill Manors, Small Axe, My Brother the Devil, etc.

    Those, to use a literary flourish (ask someone), put you "face to face" with grime and related subcultures.
    Yes, when you are in row 5 of the Criterion Theatre you are practically shooting up GHB in Tottenham Hale

  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957
    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    fpt

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Oh go on @Scott_P, educate me.

    Look at it this way.

    How much of the kit you bought in the 90's would still be part of your system today (notwithstanding the voltage issues) ?
    Richer Sounds always did decent kit, and it lasts well. My Marantz amp from there must be 25 years old.

    There is good new music now, despite what grandpa Leon was saying last night while showing his slides. I am a fan of Molchat Doma for example.

    https://youtu.be/s1ATTIQrmIQ
    I’m not just emotionally and artistically correct, I can scientifically prove I’m correct. Music is decreasing in complexity and variety, songs are more formulaic, lyrics are more repetitive and mundane. Music is getting worse

    https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/is-pop-music-evolving-or-is-it-just-getting-louder/


    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/science-proves-pop-music-has-actually-gotten-worse-8173368/

    https://arxiv.org/pdf/1907.04292.pdf

    https://www.mic.com/articles/107896/scientists-finally-prove-why-pop-music-all-sounds-the-same


    https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0115255
    You old git.

    On my playlist:

    Mazzy Star
    Quantic
    Tash Sultana
    DJariium
    Husky Loops
    Paul Hartnoll
    Finley Quaye
    Young Fathers
    Dave Thomas Junior
    Light Asylum
    Nitin Sawhney
    Elbow
    Unkle
    Kerli
    Wankelmut
    Leftfield
    X Ambassadors
    Silver Mt Zion
    FKA Twigs
    Covenant
    Shawn Lee's Ping Pong Orchestra
    The Allergies
    Michel Kiwanuka
    Dennis Lloyd
    Robert Levon Been
    Maribou State
    The Cinematic Orchestra
    Molotov Jukebox

    Something there for everything. You might think you recognise some of it/it's derivative of course you might but then welcome to pop music for the past 70 years.

    And that's to exclude the superstars - eg Kanye, Rihanna, Adele, Lizzo, etc, or, say, Grime.

    You need to get out more, take the Chris de Burgh tape off loop and start shazaming your way to find some new music.
    OMG you cut and pasted it AGAIN. The most poignantly embarrassing I-am-not-old list in the history of PB

    Can you give us a three hundred page memoir of all your “face to face encounters with grime”, and maybe a hand filmed cinema verite docudrama about your experiments doing Phenibut in your council flat in Northumberland Park?
    Twat x2.

    As I said I wouldn't know those bands if they were carving a dildo in front of me. I just Shazam anything I like and add it to a playlist (that same playlist includes Guitar Man and Calling Occupants...).

    The point is that those ones I painstakingly typed out are, in your parlance, modern beat combos.

    Put Shazam on your home screen (do Nokia 6233s have home screens?) and start exploring.
    You seem oddly stung by my criticism. I can’t imagine why
    I am wholly unstung by your criticism. I am explaining, painfully it turns out because it is a simple enough point, that there is plenty of modern music around now that is great and that it has historically been the case that the older generation (ie you) bemoans the "youth of today" in various cultural areas.

    That you are turning into your father (you wish) seems to be meanwhile what is irking you.
    “My face to face encounters with grime via the medium of modern British drama” by “Topping” is possibly one of my favourite sentences ever written on PB
    I'm glad you think so. Let's unpick it.

    What are some cracking British dramas of the past few months and years - Top Boy, Blue Story, Pirates, Attack the Block, Ill Manors, Small Axe, My Brother the Devil, etc.

    Those, to use a literary flourish (ask someone), put you "face to face" with grime and related subcultures.
    Yes, when you are in row 5 of the Criterion Theatre you are practically shooting up GHB in Tottenham Hale

    Teensy bit desperate, tbh, teensy bit desperate.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    edited August 2022
    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    TOPPING said:

    fpt

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Oh go on @Scott_P, educate me.

    Look at it this way.

    How much of the kit you bought in the 90's would still be part of your system today (notwithstanding the voltage issues) ?
    Richer Sounds always did decent kit, and it lasts well. My Marantz amp from there must be 25 years old.

    There is good new music now, despite what grandpa Leon was saying last night while showing his slides. I am a fan of Molchat Doma for example.

    https://youtu.be/s1ATTIQrmIQ
    I’m not just emotionally and artistically correct, I can scientifically prove I’m correct. Music is decreasing in complexity and variety, songs are more formulaic, lyrics are more repetitive and mundane. Music is getting worse

    https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/is-pop-music-evolving-or-is-it-just-getting-louder/


    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/science-proves-pop-music-has-actually-gotten-worse-8173368/

    https://arxiv.org/pdf/1907.04292.pdf

    https://www.mic.com/articles/107896/scientists-finally-prove-why-pop-music-all-sounds-the-same


    https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0115255
    You old git.

    On my playlist:

    Mazzy Star
    Quantic
    Tash Sultana
    DJariium
    Husky Loops
    Paul Hartnoll
    Finley Quaye
    Young Fathers
    Dave Thomas Junior
    Light Asylum
    Nitin Sawhney
    Elbow
    Unkle
    Kerli
    Wankelmut
    Leftfield
    X Ambassadors
    Silver Mt Zion
    FKA Twigs
    Covenant
    Shawn Lee's Ping Pong Orchestra
    The Allergies
    Michel Kiwanuka
    Dennis Lloyd
    Robert Levon Been
    Maribou State
    The Cinematic Orchestra
    Molotov Jukebox

    Something there for everything. You might think you recognise some of it/it's derivative of course you might but then welcome to pop music for the past 70 years.

    And that's to exclude the superstars - eg Kanye, Rihanna, Adele, Lizzo, etc, or, say, Grime.

    You need to get out more, take the Chris de Burgh tape off loop and start shazaming your way to find some new music.
    Wet Leg‘s first two singles were amongst the best of any I’ve heard for 30 or more years.



    OK let’s analysis this. i know Wet Leg, they are OK

    Here’s their first single. Chaise Longue

    https://youtu.be/Zd9jeJk2UHQ

    Pleasantly monotonous. Quirky. But “among the best singles of the last 30 years” is absolutely farcical. For a start, compare it with this song, Yellow Horse by Cowboy Racer

    https://youtu.be/5rdW_0c6zv


    I submit they are almost identical, the deadpan approach, the slightly off key female vocals, the deliberate flatness of affect, the eccentric lyrics. The different is that Yellow Horse is better, funnier, sexier. Written 17 years ago
    Are you f’ing kidding me? The double entendre in the first verse of Chaise Longue alone is simultaneously funnier and sexier than the whole of Yellow Horse. There are acts out there that might disprove my thesis - but Cowboy Racer sure isn’t one of them.
    The bands are so similar - sound, presentation, theme - Cowboy Racer should sue

    And besides, it is you making the outrageous claim: that Wet Leg have produced “two of the best singles of the last 30 years”. It is comically absurd. And what is this amazing double entendre? Buttered muffin? It’s been street slang for decades

    https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=buttered muffin
    That’s later in the song and is a line from Mean Girls, as has been well observed already - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-59331835

    The one in the first verse (that seems to have gone right over your head) is simply funnier and sexier than anything by Cowboy Racer, who in turn should be sued by Flying Lizards if you’re into that kind of thing. And Nirvana should have been sued by Killing Joke for ripping off the riff from “Eighties”. While George Harrison was actually sued for ripping off the Chiffons. Etc etc. Boring.
    Do tell us about this amazing double entendre, Big Doug Seal
    Who says it’s amazing, Little Leon? The issue we have here is that you say I say it’s “amazing” whereas I only say it clears the considerably lower bar of being better than Yellow Horse by cowboy racer. So I can’t answer you I’m afraid. You’ll just have to figure it out yourself.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,291
    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    TOPPING said:

    fpt

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Oh go on @Scott_P, educate me.

    Look at it this way.

    How much of the kit you bought in the 90's would still be part of your system today (notwithstanding the voltage issues) ?
    Richer Sounds always did decent kit, and it lasts well. My Marantz amp from there must be 25 years old.

    There is good new music now, despite what grandpa Leon was saying last night while showing his slides. I am a fan of Molchat Doma for example.

    https://youtu.be/s1ATTIQrmIQ
    I’m not just emotionally and artistically correct, I can scientifically prove I’m correct. Music is decreasing in complexity and variety, songs are more formulaic, lyrics are more repetitive and mundane. Music is getting worse

    https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/is-pop-music-evolving-or-is-it-just-getting-louder/


    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/science-proves-pop-music-has-actually-gotten-worse-8173368/

    https://arxiv.org/pdf/1907.04292.pdf

    https://www.mic.com/articles/107896/scientists-finally-prove-why-pop-music-all-sounds-the-same


    https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0115255
    You old git.

    On my playlist:

    Mazzy Star
    Quantic
    Tash Sultana
    DJariium
    Husky Loops
    Paul Hartnoll
    Finley Quaye
    Young Fathers
    Dave Thomas Junior
    Light Asylum
    Nitin Sawhney
    Elbow
    Unkle
    Kerli
    Wankelmut
    Leftfield
    X Ambassadors
    Silver Mt Zion
    FKA Twigs
    Covenant
    Shawn Lee's Ping Pong Orchestra
    The Allergies
    Michel Kiwanuka
    Dennis Lloyd
    Robert Levon Been
    Maribou State
    The Cinematic Orchestra
    Molotov Jukebox

    Something there for everything. You might think you recognise some of it/it's derivative of course you might but then welcome to pop music for the past 70 years.

    And that's to exclude the superstars - eg Kanye, Rihanna, Adele, Lizzo, etc, or, say, Grime.

    You need to get out more, take the Chris de Burgh tape off loop and start shazaming your way to find some new music.
    Wet Leg‘s first two singles were amongst the best of any I’ve heard for 30 or more years.



    OK let’s analysis this. i know Wet Leg, they are OK

    Here’s their first single. Chaise Longue

    https://youtu.be/Zd9jeJk2UHQ

    Pleasantly monotonous. Quirky. But “among the best singles of the last 30 years” is absolutely farcical. For a start, compare it with this song, Yellow Horse by Cowboy Racer

    https://youtu.be/5rdW_0c6zv


    I submit they are almost identical, the deadpan approach, the slightly off key female vocals, the deliberate flatness of affect, the eccentric lyrics. The different is that Yellow Horse is better, funnier, sexier. Written 17 years ago
    Are you f’ing kidding me? The double entendre in the first verse of Chaise Longue alone is simultaneously funnier and sexier than the whole of Yellow Horse. There are acts out there that might disprove my thesis - but Cowboy Racer sure isn’t one of them.
    The bands are so similar - sound, presentation, theme - Cowboy Racer should sue

    And besides, it is you making the outrageous claim: that Wet Leg have produced “two of the best singles of the last 30 years”. It is comically absurd. And what is this amazing double entendre? Buttered muffin? It’s been street slang for decades

    https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=buttered muffin
    That’s later in the song and is a line from Mean Girls, as has been well observed already - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-59331835

    The one in the first verse (that seems to have gone right over your head) is simply funnier and sexier than anything by Cowboy Racer, who in turn should be sued by Flying Lizards if you’re into that kind of thing. And Nirvana should have been sued by Killing Joke for ripping off the riff from “Eighties”. While George Harrison was actually sued for ripping off the Chiffons. Etc etc. Boring.
    Do tell us about this amazing double entendre, Big Doug Seal
    For someone who accuses others of desperately trying to prove that they are in the know and "with it" you do an awful lot of desperately trying to prove that you are in the know and "with it".
    I’m just waiting to hear what this fabulous double entendre is, in “one of the greatest singles of the last thirty years”
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,310
    Might I gently intervene in the music debate and simply point out that nothing is as good as Bach.

    There. Glad to have cleared that up.

    You're welcome.

    (Though I will allow 3 small exceptions: the Dies Irae in Mozart's Requiem, the Libera Me ending of Verdi's Requiem and Elgar's Salut d'Amour played here by Aldo Ciccolini - https://youtu.be/pkcHjmXmEg0).
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,012
    edited August 2022
    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    TOPPING said:

    fpt

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Oh go on @Scott_P, educate me.

    Look at it this way.

    How much of the kit you bought in the 90's would still be part of your system today (notwithstanding the voltage issues) ?
    Richer Sounds always did decent kit, and it lasts well. My Marantz amp from there must be 25 years old.

    There is good new music now, despite what grandpa Leon was saying last night while showing his slides. I am a fan of Molchat Doma for example.

    https://youtu.be/s1ATTIQrmIQ
    I’m not just emotionally and artistically correct, I can scientifically prove I’m correct. Music is decreasing in complexity and variety, songs are more formulaic, lyrics are more repetitive and mundane. Music is getting worse

    https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/is-pop-music-evolving-or-is-it-just-getting-louder/


    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/science-proves-pop-music-has-actually-gotten-worse-8173368/

    https://arxiv.org/pdf/1907.04292.pdf

    https://www.mic.com/articles/107896/scientists-finally-prove-why-pop-music-all-sounds-the-same


    https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0115255
    You old git.

    On my playlist:

    Mazzy Star
    Quantic
    Tash Sultana
    DJariium
    Husky Loops
    Paul Hartnoll
    Finley Quaye
    Young Fathers
    Dave Thomas Junior
    Light Asylum
    Nitin Sawhney
    Elbow
    Unkle
    Kerli
    Wankelmut
    Leftfield
    X Ambassadors
    Silver Mt Zion
    FKA Twigs
    Covenant
    Shawn Lee's Ping Pong Orchestra
    The Allergies
    Michel Kiwanuka
    Dennis Lloyd
    Robert Levon Been
    Maribou State
    The Cinematic Orchestra
    Molotov Jukebox

    Something there for everything. You might think you recognise some of it/it's derivative of course you might but then welcome to pop music for the past 70 years.

    And that's to exclude the superstars - eg Kanye, Rihanna, Adele, Lizzo, etc, or, say, Grime.

    You need to get out more, take the Chris de Burgh tape off loop and start shazaming your way to find some new music.
    Wet Leg‘s first two singles were amongst the best of any I’ve heard for 30 or more years.



    OK let’s analysis this. i know Wet Leg, they are OK

    Here’s their first single. Chaise Longue

    https://youtu.be/Zd9jeJk2UHQ

    Pleasantly monotonous. Quirky. But “among the best singles of the last 30 years” is absolutely farcical. For a start, compare it with this song, Yellow Horse by Cowboy Racer


    https://youtu.be/5rdW_0c6zvY


    I submit they are almost identical, the deadpan approach, the slightly off key female vocals, the deliberate flatness of affect, the eccentric lyrics. The different is that Yellow Horse is better, funnier, sexier. Written 17 years ago
    Nothing the Flying Lizards weren't doing in 1979.... In 2 minutes 30.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-P2qL3qkzk

    Indeed, also very similar and even earlier

    This is yet another one of the problems faced by popular musicians. Almost everything - in terms of style, attitude, subversion - has been done, and at the same time almost every chord progression has been explored, every percussive rhythm banged out. Music is not infinite

    Classical music faced the same problem in the early 20th century, and so it went down the rabbit hole of atonality, whence it has never really emerged, or recovered
    A limited number of chord progressions is not a limitation on pop music, as you'd know if you knew anything.

    As you are always reminding us, English is a living, evolving language. An evolving language will always create new songs for new experiences.
    It absolutely is a limit unless music lurches into atonality

    AI can now write every conceivable song using the western musical scale

    “The AI software that could turn you in to a music star

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-59878572


    “You can do things such as add or strip-out instruments, change the tempo, adjust the volumes, add echoes, make everything sound brighter or softer, and lay down some vocals.

    California-based, Boomy, was launched at the end of 2018, and claims its users around the world have now created almost five million songs.”

    Five million. And this is only going to grow

    With people making billions of songs a year we will exhaust the possibilities fast

    Of course you can vary the presentation, the lyrics, instruments etc but it eventually becomes mere tweaking
    One interesting thing I heard a well known rock producer say is that with the evolution of technology not only everything gets auto-tuned etc, but they as standard now will not even have the drummer play the full track, instead just use the tech to fill the loop from a tiny bit. With this you lose that subtle changes / differences in beat and intensity, sometimes they were on purpose, sometimes accidentally but added soul to the music....rather akin to the uncanny valley of CGI, the random imperfections of reality are more pleasant to our senses.
    Can I introduce you to the Roland. There has been an absence of drummers in music for ages.

    Love Drummers Don't Live Here Anymore.
    Going off what this rock producer said, in rock music this is relatively new (as in past 10 years). There was always the "feel" that proper rock bands, you had to have the real drum sound on your track. Now record labels push for things to be done as fast and cheap as possible (because of the likes of Spotify).
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,291
    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    TOPPING said:

    fpt

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Oh go on @Scott_P, educate me.

    Look at it this way.

    How much of the kit you bought in the 90's would still be part of your system today (notwithstanding the voltage issues) ?
    Richer Sounds always did decent kit, and it lasts well. My Marantz amp from there must be 25 years old.

    There is good new music now, despite what grandpa Leon was saying last night while showing his slides. I am a fan of Molchat Doma for example.

    https://youtu.be/s1ATTIQrmIQ
    I’m not just emotionally and artistically correct, I can scientifically prove I’m correct. Music is decreasing in complexity and variety, songs are more formulaic, lyrics are more repetitive and mundane. Music is getting worse

    https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/is-pop-music-evolving-or-is-it-just-getting-louder/


    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/science-proves-pop-music-has-actually-gotten-worse-8173368/

    https://arxiv.org/pdf/1907.04292.pdf

    https://www.mic.com/articles/107896/scientists-finally-prove-why-pop-music-all-sounds-the-same


    https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0115255
    You old git.

    On my playlist:

    Mazzy Star
    Quantic
    Tash Sultana
    DJariium
    Husky Loops
    Paul Hartnoll
    Finley Quaye
    Young Fathers
    Dave Thomas Junior
    Light Asylum
    Nitin Sawhney
    Elbow
    Unkle
    Kerli
    Wankelmut
    Leftfield
    X Ambassadors
    Silver Mt Zion
    FKA Twigs
    Covenant
    Shawn Lee's Ping Pong Orchestra
    The Allergies
    Michel Kiwanuka
    Dennis Lloyd
    Robert Levon Been
    Maribou State
    The Cinematic Orchestra
    Molotov Jukebox

    Something there for everything. You might think you recognise some of it/it's derivative of course you might but then welcome to pop music for the past 70 years.

    And that's to exclude the superstars - eg Kanye, Rihanna, Adele, Lizzo, etc, or, say, Grime.

    You need to get out more, take the Chris de Burgh tape off loop and start shazaming your way to find some new music.
    Wet Leg‘s first two singles were amongst the best of any I’ve heard for 30 or more years.



    OK let’s analysis this. i know Wet Leg, they are OK

    Here’s their first single. Chaise Longue

    https://youtu.be/Zd9jeJk2UHQ

    Pleasantly monotonous. Quirky. But “among the best singles of the last 30 years” is absolutely farcical. For a start, compare it with this song, Yellow Horse by Cowboy Racer

    https://youtu.be/5rdW_0c6zv


    I submit they are almost identical, the deadpan approach, the slightly off key female vocals, the deliberate flatness of affect, the eccentric lyrics. The different is that Yellow Horse is better, funnier, sexier. Written 17 years ago
    Are you f’ing kidding me? The double entendre in the first verse of Chaise Longue alone is simultaneously funnier and sexier than the whole of Yellow Horse. There are acts out there that might disprove my thesis - but Cowboy Racer sure isn’t one of them.
    The bands are so similar - sound, presentation, theme - Cowboy Racer should sue

    And besides, it is you making the outrageous claim: that Wet Leg have produced “two of the best singles of the last 30 years”. It is comically absurd. And what is this amazing double entendre? Buttered muffin? It’s been street slang for decades

    https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=buttered muffin
    That’s later in the song and is a line from Mean Girls, as has been well observed already - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-59331835

    The one in the first verse (that seems to have gone right over your head) is simply funnier and sexier than anything by Cowboy Racer, who in turn should be sued by Flying Lizards if you’re into that kind of thing. And Nirvana should have been sued by Killing Joke for ripping off the riff from “Eighties”. While George Harrison was actually sued for ripping off the Chiffons. Etc etc. Boring.
    Do tell us about this amazing double entendre, Big Doug Seal
    Who says it’s amazing, Little Leon? The issue we have here is that you say I say it’s “amazing” whereas I only say it clears the considerably lower bar of being better than Yellow Horse by cowboy racer. So I can’t answer you I’m afraid. You’ll just have to figure it out yourself.
    You. So what is it?
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    TOPPING said:

    fpt

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Oh go on @Scott_P, educate me.

    Look at it this way.

    How much of the kit you bought in the 90's would still be part of your system today (notwithstanding the voltage issues) ?
    Richer Sounds always did decent kit, and it lasts well. My Marantz amp from there must be 25 years old.

    There is good new music now, despite what grandpa Leon was saying last night while showing his slides. I am a fan of Molchat Doma for example.

    https://youtu.be/s1ATTIQrmIQ
    I’m not just emotionally and artistically correct, I can scientifically prove I’m correct. Music is decreasing in complexity and variety, songs are more formulaic, lyrics are more repetitive and mundane. Music is getting worse

    https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/is-pop-music-evolving-or-is-it-just-getting-louder/


    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/science-proves-pop-music-has-actually-gotten-worse-8173368/

    https://arxiv.org/pdf/1907.04292.pdf

    https://www.mic.com/articles/107896/scientists-finally-prove-why-pop-music-all-sounds-the-same


    https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0115255
    You old git.

    On my playlist:

    Mazzy Star
    Quantic
    Tash Sultana
    DJariium
    Husky Loops
    Paul Hartnoll
    Finley Quaye
    Young Fathers
    Dave Thomas Junior
    Light Asylum
    Nitin Sawhney
    Elbow
    Unkle
    Kerli
    Wankelmut
    Leftfield
    X Ambassadors
    Silver Mt Zion
    FKA Twigs
    Covenant
    Shawn Lee's Ping Pong Orchestra
    The Allergies
    Michel Kiwanuka
    Dennis Lloyd
    Robert Levon Been
    Maribou State
    The Cinematic Orchestra
    Molotov Jukebox

    Something there for everything. You might think you recognise some of it/it's derivative of course you might but then welcome to pop music for the past 70 years.

    And that's to exclude the superstars - eg Kanye, Rihanna, Adele, Lizzo, etc, or, say, Grime.

    You need to get out more, take the Chris de Burgh tape off loop and start shazaming your way to find some new music.
    Wet Leg‘s first two singles were amongst the best of any I’ve heard for 30 or more years.



    OK let’s analysis this. i know Wet Leg, they are OK

    Here’s their first single. Chaise Longue

    https://youtu.be/Zd9jeJk2UHQ

    Pleasantly monotonous. Quirky. But “among the best singles of the last 30 years” is absolutely farcical. For a start, compare it with this song, Yellow Horse by Cowboy Racer

    https://youtu.be/5rdW_0c6zv


    I submit they are almost identical, the deadpan approach, the slightly off key female vocals, the deliberate flatness of affect, the eccentric lyrics. The different is that Yellow Horse is better, funnier, sexier. Written 17 years ago
    Are you f’ing kidding me? The double entendre in the first verse of Chaise Longue alone is simultaneously funnier and sexier than the whole of Yellow Horse. There are acts out there that might disprove my thesis - but Cowboy Racer sure isn’t one of them.
    The bands are so similar - sound, presentation, theme - Cowboy Racer should sue

    And besides, it is you making the outrageous claim: that Wet Leg have produced “two of the best singles of the last 30 years”. It is comically absurd. And what is this amazing double entendre? Buttered muffin? It’s been street slang for decades

    https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=buttered muffin
    That’s later in the song and is a line from Mean Girls, as has been well observed already - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-59331835

    The one in the first verse (that seems to have gone right over your head) is simply funnier and sexier than anything by Cowboy Racer, who in turn should be sued by Flying Lizards if you’re into that kind of thing. And Nirvana should have been sued by Killing Joke for ripping off the riff from “Eighties”. While George Harrison was actually sued for ripping off the Chiffons. Etc etc. Boring.
    Do tell us about this amazing double entendre, Big Doug Seal
    Who says it’s amazing, Little Leon? The issue we have here is that you say I say it’s “amazing” whereas I only say it clears the considerably lower bar of being better than Yellow Horse by cowboy racer. So I can’t answer you I’m afraid. You’ll just have to figure it out yourself.
    You. So what is it?
    No. Read my post carefully. One word at a time.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,291
    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    TOPPING said:

    fpt

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Oh go on @Scott_P, educate me.

    Look at it this way.

    How much of the kit you bought in the 90's would still be part of your system today (notwithstanding the voltage issues) ?
    Richer Sounds always did decent kit, and it lasts well. My Marantz amp from there must be 25 years old.

    There is good new music now, despite what grandpa Leon was saying last night while showing his slides. I am a fan of Molchat Doma for example.

    https://youtu.be/s1ATTIQrmIQ
    I’m not just emotionally and artistically correct, I can scientifically prove I’m correct. Music is decreasing in complexity and variety, songs are more formulaic, lyrics are more repetitive and mundane. Music is getting worse

    https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/is-pop-music-evolving-or-is-it-just-getting-louder/


    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/science-proves-pop-music-has-actually-gotten-worse-8173368/

    https://arxiv.org/pdf/1907.04292.pdf

    https://www.mic.com/articles/107896/scientists-finally-prove-why-pop-music-all-sounds-the-same


    https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0115255
    You old git.

    On my playlist:

    Mazzy Star
    Quantic
    Tash Sultana
    DJariium
    Husky Loops
    Paul Hartnoll
    Finley Quaye
    Young Fathers
    Dave Thomas Junior
    Light Asylum
    Nitin Sawhney
    Elbow
    Unkle
    Kerli
    Wankelmut
    Leftfield
    X Ambassadors
    Silver Mt Zion
    FKA Twigs
    Covenant
    Shawn Lee's Ping Pong Orchestra
    The Allergies
    Michel Kiwanuka
    Dennis Lloyd
    Robert Levon Been
    Maribou State
    The Cinematic Orchestra
    Molotov Jukebox

    Something there for everything. You might think you recognise some of it/it's derivative of course you might but then welcome to pop music for the past 70 years.

    And that's to exclude the superstars - eg Kanye, Rihanna, Adele, Lizzo, etc, or, say, Grime.

    You need to get out more, take the Chris de Burgh tape off loop and start shazaming your way to find some new music.
    Wet Leg‘s first two singles were amongst the best of any I’ve heard for 30 or more years.



    OK let’s analysis this. i know Wet Leg, they are OK

    Here’s their first single. Chaise Longue

    https://youtu.be/Zd9jeJk2UHQ

    Pleasantly monotonous. Quirky. But “among the best singles of the last 30 years” is absolutely farcical. For a start, compare it with this song, Yellow Horse by Cowboy Racer

    https://youtu.be/5rdW_0c6zv


    I submit they are almost identical, the deadpan approach, the slightly off key female vocals, the deliberate flatness of affect, the eccentric lyrics. The different is that Yellow Horse is better, funnier, sexier. Written 17 years ago
    Are you f’ing kidding me? The double entendre in the first verse of Chaise Longue alone is simultaneously funnier and sexier than the whole of Yellow Horse. There are acts out there that might disprove my thesis - but Cowboy Racer sure isn’t one of them.
    The bands are so similar - sound, presentation, theme - Cowboy Racer should sue

    And besides, it is you making the outrageous claim: that Wet Leg have produced “two of the best singles of the last 30 years”. It is comically absurd. And what is this amazing double entendre? Buttered muffin? It’s been street slang for decades

    https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=buttered muffin
    That’s later in the song and is a line from Mean Girls, as has been well observed already - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-59331835

    The one in the first verse (that seems to have gone right over your head) is simply funnier and sexier than anything by Cowboy Racer, who in turn should be sued by Flying Lizards if you’re into that kind of thing. And Nirvana should have been sued by Killing Joke for ripping off the riff from “Eighties”. While George Harrison was actually sued for ripping off the Chiffons. Etc etc. Boring.
    Do tell us about this amazing double entendre, Big Doug Seal
    Who says it’s amazing, Little Leon? The issue we have here is that you say I say it’s “amazing” whereas I only say it clears the considerably lower bar of being better than Yellow Horse by cowboy racer. So I can’t answer you I’m afraid. You’ll just have to figure it out yourself.
    You. So what is it?
    No. Read my post carefully. One word at a time.
    You’re too embarrassed to say, aren’t you?

    Fabulously mortifying
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,361
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    TOPPING said:

    fpt

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Oh go on @Scott_P, educate me.

    Look at it this way.

    How much of the kit you bought in the 90's would still be part of your system today (notwithstanding the voltage issues) ?
    Richer Sounds always did decent kit, and it lasts well. My Marantz amp from there must be 25 years old.

    There is good new music now, despite what grandpa Leon was saying last night while showing his slides. I am a fan of Molchat Doma for example.

    https://youtu.be/s1ATTIQrmIQ
    I’m not just emotionally and artistically correct, I can scientifically prove I’m correct. Music is decreasing in complexity and variety, songs are more formulaic, lyrics are more repetitive and mundane. Music is getting worse

    https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/is-pop-music-evolving-or-is-it-just-getting-louder/


    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/science-proves-pop-music-has-actually-gotten-worse-8173368/

    https://arxiv.org/pdf/1907.04292.pdf

    https://www.mic.com/articles/107896/scientists-finally-prove-why-pop-music-all-sounds-the-same


    https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0115255
    You old git.

    On my playlist:

    Mazzy Star
    Quantic
    Tash Sultana
    DJariium
    Husky Loops
    Paul Hartnoll
    Finley Quaye
    Young Fathers
    Dave Thomas Junior
    Light Asylum
    Nitin Sawhney
    Elbow
    Unkle
    Kerli
    Wankelmut
    Leftfield
    X Ambassadors
    Silver Mt Zion
    FKA Twigs
    Covenant
    Shawn Lee's Ping Pong Orchestra
    The Allergies
    Michel Kiwanuka
    Dennis Lloyd
    Robert Levon Been
    Maribou State
    The Cinematic Orchestra
    Molotov Jukebox

    Something there for everything. You might think you recognise some of it/it's derivative of course you might but then welcome to pop music for the past 70 years.

    And that's to exclude the superstars - eg Kanye, Rihanna, Adele, Lizzo, etc, or, say, Grime.

    You need to get out more, take the Chris de Burgh tape off loop and start shazaming your way to find some new music.
    Wet Leg‘s first two singles were amongst the best of any I’ve heard for 30 or more years.



    OK let’s analysis this. i know Wet Leg, they are OK

    Here’s their first single. Chaise Longue

    https://youtu.be/Zd9jeJk2UHQ

    Pleasantly monotonous. Quirky. But “among the best singles of the last 30 years” is absolutely farcical. For a start, compare it with this song, Yellow Horse by Cowboy Racer


    https://youtu.be/5rdW_0c6zvY


    I submit they are almost identical, the deadpan approach, the slightly off key female vocals, the deliberate flatness of affect, the eccentric lyrics. The different is that Yellow Horse is better, funnier, sexier. Written 17 years ago
    Nothing the Flying Lizards weren't doing in 1979.... In 2 minutes 30.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-P2qL3qkzk

    Indeed, also very similar and even earlier

    This is yet another one of the problems faced by popular musicians. Almost everything - in terms of style, attitude, subversion - has been done, and at the same time almost every chord progression has been explored, every percussive rhythm banged out. Music is not infinite

    Classical music faced the same problem in the early 20th century, and so it went down the rabbit hole of atonality, whence it has never really emerged, or recovered
    A limited number of chord progressions is not a limitation on pop music, as you'd know if you knew anything.

    As you are always reminding us, English is a living, evolving language. An evolving language will always create new songs for new experiences.
    It absolutely is a limit unless music lurches into atonality

    AI can now write every conceivable song using the western musical scale

    “The AI software that could turn you in to a music star

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-59878572


    “You can do things such as add or strip-out instruments, change the tempo, adjust the volumes, add echoes, make everything sound brighter or softer, and lay down some vocals.

    California-based, Boomy, was launched at the end of 2018, and claims its users around the world have now created almost five million songs.”

    Five million. And this is only going to grow

    With people making billions of songs a year we will exhaust the possibilities fast

    Of course you can vary the presentation, the lyrics, instruments etc but it eventually becomes mere tweaking
    It isn't a limit because lots of songs, going back decades, already share the same chord progressions and most of the time you don't notice.

    The large number of songs being produced makes it harder to find the better songs, but it doesn't mean they won't exist.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,668
    edited August 2022
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    TOPPING said:

    fpt

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Oh go on @Scott_P, educate me.

    Look at it this way.

    How much of the kit you bought in the 90's would still be part of your system today (notwithstanding the voltage issues) ?
    Richer Sounds always did decent kit, and it lasts well. My Marantz amp from there must be 25 years old.

    There is good new music now, despite what grandpa Leon was saying last night while showing his slides. I am a fan of Molchat Doma for example.

    https://youtu.be/s1ATTIQrmIQ
    I’m not just emotionally and artistically correct, I can scientifically prove I’m correct. Music is decreasing in complexity and variety, songs are more formulaic, lyrics are more repetitive and mundane. Music is getting worse

    https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/is-pop-music-evolving-or-is-it-just-getting-louder/


    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/science-proves-pop-music-has-actually-gotten-worse-8173368/

    https://arxiv.org/pdf/1907.04292.pdf

    https://www.mic.com/articles/107896/scientists-finally-prove-why-pop-music-all-sounds-the-same


    https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0115255
    You old git.

    On my playlist:

    Mazzy Star
    Quantic
    Tash Sultana
    DJariium
    Husky Loops
    Paul Hartnoll
    Finley Quaye
    Young Fathers
    Dave Thomas Junior
    Light Asylum
    Nitin Sawhney
    Elbow
    Unkle
    Kerli
    Wankelmut
    Leftfield
    X Ambassadors
    Silver Mt Zion
    FKA Twigs
    Covenant
    Shawn Lee's Ping Pong Orchestra
    The Allergies
    Michel Kiwanuka
    Dennis Lloyd
    Robert Levon Been
    Maribou State
    The Cinematic Orchestra
    Molotov Jukebox

    Something there for everything. You might think you recognise some of it/it's derivative of course you might but then welcome to pop music for the past 70 years.

    And that's to exclude the superstars - eg Kanye, Rihanna, Adele, Lizzo, etc, or, say, Grime.

    You need to get out more, take the Chris de Burgh tape off loop and start shazaming your way to find some new music.
    Wet Leg‘s first two singles were amongst the best of any I’ve heard for 30 or more years.



    OK let’s analysis this. i know Wet Leg, they are OK

    Here’s their first single. Chaise Longue

    https://youtu.be/Zd9jeJk2UHQ

    Pleasantly monotonous. Quirky. But “among the best singles of the last 30 years” is absolutely farcical. For a start, compare it with this song, Yellow Horse by Cowboy Racer


    https://youtu.be/5rdW_0c6zvY


    I submit they are almost identical, the deadpan approach, the slightly off key female vocals, the deliberate flatness of affect, the eccentric lyrics. The different is that Yellow Horse is better, funnier, sexier. Written 17 years ago
    Nothing the Flying Lizards weren't doing in 1979.... In 2 minutes 30.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-P2qL3qkzk

    Indeed, also very similar and even earlier

    This is yet another one of the problems faced by popular musicians. Almost everything - in terms of style, attitude, subversion - has been done, and at the same time almost every chord progression has been explored, every percussive rhythm banged out. Music is not infinite

    Classical music faced the same problem in the early 20th century, and so it went down the rabbit hole of atonality, whence it has never really emerged, or recovered
    I think the rabbit hole happens partially because a lot of the arts is now playing to the wrong audience - itself.

    It always amuses me that Peter Maxwell Davies composed all sorts of avante garde stuff but what the audience actually liked was a simple almost throwaway piece written as a protest (Farewell to Stromness). As for his mate Harrison Birtwistle - always good for filling up the bar.

    As well as atonality, though, there's also been minimalism - which has been less of a rabbit hole and has crossed back over into pop music as various forms of rock and electronic music.

    Where to go next though? Back to Bach...?
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    TOPPING said:

    fpt

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Oh go on @Scott_P, educate me.

    Look at it this way.

    How much of the kit you bought in the 90's would still be part of your system today (notwithstanding the voltage issues) ?
    Richer Sounds always did decent kit, and it lasts well. My Marantz amp from there must be 25 years old.

    There is good new music now, despite what grandpa Leon was saying last night while showing his slides. I am a fan of Molchat Doma for example.

    https://youtu.be/s1ATTIQrmIQ
    I’m not just emotionally and artistically correct, I can scientifically prove I’m correct. Music is decreasing in complexity and variety, songs are more formulaic, lyrics are more repetitive and mundane. Music is getting worse

    https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/is-pop-music-evolving-or-is-it-just-getting-louder/


    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/science-proves-pop-music-has-actually-gotten-worse-8173368/

    https://arxiv.org/pdf/1907.04292.pdf

    https://www.mic.com/articles/107896/scientists-finally-prove-why-pop-music-all-sounds-the-same


    https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0115255
    You old git.

    On my playlist:

    Mazzy Star
    Quantic
    Tash Sultana
    DJariium
    Husky Loops
    Paul Hartnoll
    Finley Quaye
    Young Fathers
    Dave Thomas Junior
    Light Asylum
    Nitin Sawhney
    Elbow
    Unkle
    Kerli
    Wankelmut
    Leftfield
    X Ambassadors
    Silver Mt Zion
    FKA Twigs
    Covenant
    Shawn Lee's Ping Pong Orchestra
    The Allergies
    Michel Kiwanuka
    Dennis Lloyd
    Robert Levon Been
    Maribou State
    The Cinematic Orchestra
    Molotov Jukebox

    Something there for everything. You might think you recognise some of it/it's derivative of course you might but then welcome to pop music for the past 70 years.

    And that's to exclude the superstars - eg Kanye, Rihanna, Adele, Lizzo, etc, or, say, Grime.

    You need to get out more, take the Chris de Burgh tape off loop and start shazaming your way to find some new music.
    Wet Leg‘s first two singles were amongst the best of any I’ve heard for 30 or more years.



    OK let’s analysis this. i know Wet Leg, they are OK

    Here’s their first single. Chaise Longue

    https://youtu.be/Zd9jeJk2UHQ

    Pleasantly monotonous. Quirky. But “among the best singles of the last 30 years” is absolutely farcical. For a start, compare it with this song, Yellow Horse by Cowboy Racer

    https://youtu.be/5rdW_0c6zv


    I submit they are almost identical, the deadpan approach, the slightly off key female vocals, the deliberate flatness of affect, the eccentric lyrics. The different is that Yellow Horse is better, funnier, sexier. Written 17 years ago
    Are you f’ing kidding me? The double entendre in the first verse of Chaise Longue alone is simultaneously funnier and sexier than the whole of Yellow Horse. There are acts out there that might disprove my thesis - but Cowboy Racer sure isn’t one of them.
    The bands are so similar - sound, presentation, theme - Cowboy Racer should sue

    And besides, it is you making the outrageous claim: that Wet Leg have produced “two of the best singles of the last 30 years”. It is comically absurd. And what is this amazing double entendre? Buttered muffin? It’s been street slang for decades

    https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=buttered muffin
    That’s later in the song and is a line from Mean Girls, as has been well observed already - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-59331835

    The one in the first verse (that seems to have gone right over your head) is simply funnier and sexier than anything by Cowboy Racer, who in turn should be sued by Flying Lizards if you’re into that kind of thing. And Nirvana should have been sued by Killing Joke for ripping off the riff from “Eighties”. While George Harrison was actually sued for ripping off the Chiffons. Etc etc. Boring.
    Do tell us about this amazing double entendre, Big Doug Seal
    Who says it’s amazing, Little Leon? The issue we have here is that you say I say it’s “amazing” whereas I only say it clears the considerably lower bar of being better than Yellow Horse by cowboy racer. So I can’t answer you I’m afraid. You’ll just have to figure it out yourself.
    You. So what is it?
    No. Read my post carefully. One word at a time.
    You’re too embarrassed to say, aren’t you?

    Fabulously mortifying
    The embarrassment comes from a supposed man of the world being unable to figure out the glaringly obvious. A child could see it FFS. Google the lyrics. Read the first verse. If you can’t figure out the flamingly obvious double entendre in the first verse then I can’t help you. It’s not “amazing” but certainly funnier than anything Cowboy Racer ever put on tape.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    TOPPING said:

    fpt

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Oh go on @Scott_P, educate me.

    Look at it this way.

    How much of the kit you bought in the 90's would still be part of your system today (notwithstanding the voltage issues) ?
    Richer Sounds always did decent kit, and it lasts well. My Marantz amp from there must be 25 years old.

    There is good new music now, despite what grandpa Leon was saying last night while showing his slides. I am a fan of Molchat Doma for example.

    https://youtu.be/s1ATTIQrmIQ
    I’m not just emotionally and artistically correct, I can scientifically prove I’m correct. Music is decreasing in complexity and variety, songs are more formulaic, lyrics are more repetitive and mundane. Music is getting worse

    https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/is-pop-music-evolving-or-is-it-just-getting-louder/


    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/science-proves-pop-music-has-actually-gotten-worse-8173368/

    https://arxiv.org/pdf/1907.04292.pdf

    https://www.mic.com/articles/107896/scientists-finally-prove-why-pop-music-all-sounds-the-same


    https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0115255
    You old git.

    On my playlist:

    Mazzy Star
    Quantic
    Tash Sultana
    DJariium
    Husky Loops
    Paul Hartnoll
    Finley Quaye
    Young Fathers
    Dave Thomas Junior
    Light Asylum
    Nitin Sawhney
    Elbow
    Unkle
    Kerli
    Wankelmut
    Leftfield
    X Ambassadors
    Silver Mt Zion
    FKA Twigs
    Covenant
    Shawn Lee's Ping Pong Orchestra
    The Allergies
    Michel Kiwanuka
    Dennis Lloyd
    Robert Levon Been
    Maribou State
    The Cinematic Orchestra
    Molotov Jukebox

    Something there for everything. You might think you recognise some of it/it's derivative of course you might but then welcome to pop music for the past 70 years.

    And that's to exclude the superstars - eg Kanye, Rihanna, Adele, Lizzo, etc, or, say, Grime.

    You need to get out more, take the Chris de Burgh tape off loop and start shazaming your way to find some new music.
    Wet Leg‘s first two singles were amongst the best of any I’ve heard for 30 or more years.



    OK let’s analysis this. i know Wet Leg, they are OK

    Here’s their first single. Chaise Longue

    https://youtu.be/Zd9jeJk2UHQ

    Pleasantly monotonous. Quirky. But “among the best singles of the last 30 years” is absolutely farcical. For a start, compare it with this song, Yellow Horse by Cowboy Racer


    https://youtu.be/5rdW_0c6zvY


    I submit they are almost identical, the deadpan approach, the slightly off key female vocals, the deliberate flatness of affect, the eccentric lyrics. The different is that Yellow Horse is better, funnier, sexier. Written 17 years ago
    Nothing the Flying Lizards weren't doing in 1979.... In 2 minutes 30.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-P2qL3qkzk

    Indeed, also very similar and even earlier

    This is yet another one of the problems faced by popular musicians. Almost everything - in terms of style, attitude, subversion - has been done, and at the same time almost every chord progression has been explored, every percussive rhythm banged out. Music is not infinite

    Classical music faced the same problem in the early 20th century, and so it went down the rabbit hole of atonality, whence it has never really emerged, or recovered
    A limited number of chord progressions is not a limitation on pop music, as you'd know if you knew anything.

    As you are always reminding us, English is a living, evolving language. An evolving language will always create new songs for new experiences.
    It absolutely is a limit unless music lurches into atonality

    AI can now write every conceivable song using the western musical scale

    “The AI software that could turn you in to a music star

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-59878572


    “You can do things such as add or strip-out instruments, change the tempo, adjust the volumes, add echoes, make everything sound brighter or softer, and lay down some vocals.

    California-based, Boomy, was launched at the end of 2018, and claims its users around the world have now created almost five million songs.”

    Five million. And this is only going to grow

    With people making billions of songs a year we will exhaust the possibilities fast

    Of course you can vary the presentation, the lyrics, instruments etc but it eventually becomes mere tweaking
    One interesting thing I heard a well known rock producer say is that with the evolution of technology not only everything gets auto-tuned etc, but they as standard now will not even have the drummer play the full track, instead just use the tech to fill the loop from a tiny bit. With this you lose that subtle changes / differences in beat and intensity, sometimes they were on purpose, sometimes accidentally but added soul to the music....rather akin to the uncanny valley of CGI, the random imperfections of reality are more pleasant to our senses.
    Can I introduce you to the Roland. There has been an absence of drummers in music for ages.

    Love Drummers Don't Live Here Anymore.
    Going off what this rock producer said, in rock music this is relatively new (as in past 10 years). There was always the "feel" that proper rock bands, you had to have the real drum sound on your track. Now record labels push for things to be done as fast and cheap as possible (because of the likes of Spotify).
    Yes I can imagine for rock that would be the case. A shame not to have that shadowy figure at the back surrounded by an impregnable wall of Zildjians.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,402
    edited August 2022

    DougSeal said:

    Why would he do that anyway? It’s the last thing his successor needs.

    Even if Nadine's seat is lost (and there have been suggestions that Jacob Rees-Mogg might be similarly ennobled) the government will still enjoy a majority of almost 80.
    It's a simple majority of 66 right now. Working of 75.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,831
    Mad Nad will presumably only accept a peerage if she is accepting that her cabinet career is over. Whilst this is something for all sane Conservatives to devoutly pray for I would not be so confident. She has been pretty chummy with Truss of late.
  • Just got our FTTP, 500Mb download is ridiculous
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    TOPPING said:

    fpt

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Oh go on @Scott_P, educate me.

    Look at it this way.

    How much of the kit you bought in the 90's would still be part of your system today (notwithstanding the voltage issues) ?
    Richer Sounds always did decent kit, and it lasts well. My Marantz amp from there must be 25 years old.

    There is good new music now, despite what grandpa Leon was saying last night while showing his slides. I am a fan of Molchat Doma for example.

    https://youtu.be/s1ATTIQrmIQ
    I’m not just emotionally and artistically correct, I can scientifically prove I’m correct. Music is decreasing in complexity and variety, songs are more formulaic, lyrics are more repetitive and mundane. Music is getting worse

    https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/is-pop-music-evolving-or-is-it-just-getting-louder/


    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/science-proves-pop-music-has-actually-gotten-worse-8173368/

    https://arxiv.org/pdf/1907.04292.pdf

    https://www.mic.com/articles/107896/scientists-finally-prove-why-pop-music-all-sounds-the-same


    https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0115255
    You old git.

    On my playlist:

    Mazzy Star
    Quantic
    Tash Sultana
    DJariium
    Husky Loops
    Paul Hartnoll
    Finley Quaye
    Young Fathers
    Dave Thomas Junior
    Light Asylum
    Nitin Sawhney
    Elbow
    Unkle
    Kerli
    Wankelmut
    Leftfield
    X Ambassadors
    Silver Mt Zion
    FKA Twigs
    Covenant
    Shawn Lee's Ping Pong Orchestra
    The Allergies
    Michel Kiwanuka
    Dennis Lloyd
    Robert Levon Been
    Maribou State
    The Cinematic Orchestra
    Molotov Jukebox

    Something there for everything. You might think you recognise some of it/it's derivative of course you might but then welcome to pop music for the past 70 years.

    And that's to exclude the superstars - eg Kanye, Rihanna, Adele, Lizzo, etc, or, say, Grime.

    You need to get out more, take the Chris de Burgh tape off loop and start shazaming your way to find some new music.
    Wet Leg‘s first two singles were amongst the best of any I’ve heard for 30 or more years.



    OK let’s analysis this. i know Wet Leg, they are OK

    Here’s their first single. Chaise Longue

    https://youtu.be/Zd9jeJk2UHQ

    Pleasantly monotonous. Quirky. But “among the best singles of the last 30 years” is absolutely farcical. For a start, compare it with this song, Yellow Horse by Cowboy Racer


    https://youtu.be/5rdW_0c6zvY


    I submit they are almost identical, the deadpan approach, the slightly off key female vocals, the deliberate flatness of affect, the eccentric lyrics. The different is that Yellow Horse is better, funnier, sexier. Written 17 years ago
    Nothing the Flying Lizards weren't doing in 1979.... In 2 minutes 30.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-P2qL3qkzk

    Indeed, also very similar and even earlier

    This is yet another one of the problems faced by popular musicians. Almost everything - in terms of style, attitude, subversion - has been done, and at the same time almost every chord progression has been explored, every percussive rhythm banged out. Music is not infinite

    Classical music faced the same problem in the early 20th century, and so it went down the rabbit hole of atonality, whence it has never really emerged, or recovered
    I think the rabbit hole happens partially because a lot of the arts is now playing to the wrong audience - itself.

    It always amuses me that Peter Maxwell Davies composed all sorts of avante garde stuff but what the audience actually liked was a simple almost throwaway piece written as a protest (Farewell to Stromness). As for his mate Harrison Birtwistle - always good for filling up the bar.

    As well as atonality, though, there's also been minimalism - which has been less of a rabbit hole and has crossed back over into pop music as various forms of rock and electronic music.

    Where to go next though? Back to Bach...?
    It is a question of vocabulary. If I gave someone Don Quixote in Spanish and they didn't speak/understand Spanish then it would be meaningless to them. Same in the plastic arts. Malevich, or Newman for that matter, would be formidable for someone unaware of the vocabulary. Same also in music.

    As the old joke goes, the words most likely to get someone to turn off the radio are: "And now for the premier of a new piece of work by a young British composer/poet/insert as necessary".
  • Leon said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    TOPPING said:

    fpt

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Oh go on @Scott_P, educate me.

    Look at it this way.

    How much of the kit you bought in the 90's would still be part of your system today (notwithstanding the voltage issues) ?
    Richer Sounds always did decent kit, and it lasts well. My Marantz amp from there must be 25 years old.

    There is good new music now, despite what grandpa Leon was saying last night while showing his slides. I am a fan of Molchat Doma for example.

    https://youtu.be/s1ATTIQrmIQ
    I’m not just emotionally and artistically correct, I can scientifically prove I’m correct. Music is decreasing in complexity and variety, songs are more formulaic, lyrics are more repetitive and mundane. Music is getting worse

    https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/is-pop-music-evolving-or-is-it-just-getting-louder/


    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/science-proves-pop-music-has-actually-gotten-worse-8173368/

    https://arxiv.org/pdf/1907.04292.pdf

    https://www.mic.com/articles/107896/scientists-finally-prove-why-pop-music-all-sounds-the-same


    https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0115255
    You old git.

    On my playlist:

    Mazzy Star
    Quantic
    Tash Sultana
    DJariium
    Husky Loops
    Paul Hartnoll
    Finley Quaye
    Young Fathers
    Dave Thomas Junior
    Light Asylum
    Nitin Sawhney
    Elbow
    Unkle
    Kerli
    Wankelmut
    Leftfield
    X Ambassadors
    Silver Mt Zion
    FKA Twigs
    Covenant
    Shawn Lee's Ping Pong Orchestra
    The Allergies
    Michel Kiwanuka
    Dennis Lloyd
    Robert Levon Been
    Maribou State
    The Cinematic Orchestra
    Molotov Jukebox

    Something there for everything. You might think you recognise some of it/it's derivative of course you might but then welcome to pop music for the past 70 years.

    And that's to exclude the superstars - eg Kanye, Rihanna, Adele, Lizzo, etc, or, say, Grime.

    You need to get out more, take the Chris de Burgh tape off loop and start shazaming your way to find some new music.
    Wet Leg‘s first two singles were amongst the best of any I’ve heard for 30 or more years.



    OK let’s analysis this. i know Wet Leg, they are OK

    Here’s their first single. Chaise Longue

    https://youtu.be/Zd9jeJk2UHQ

    Pleasantly monotonous. Quirky. But “among the best singles of the last 30 years” is absolutely farcical. For a start, compare it with this song, Yellow Horse by Cowboy Racer


    https://youtu.be/5rdW_0c6zvY


    I submit they are almost identical, the deadpan approach, the slightly off key female vocals, the deliberate flatness of affect, the eccentric lyrics. The different is that Yellow Horse is better, funnier, sexier. Written 17 years ago
    Nothing the Flying Lizards weren't doing in 1979.... In 2 minutes 30.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-P2qL3qkzk

    Indeed, also very similar and even earlier

    This is yet another one of the problems faced by popular musicians. Almost everything - in terms of style, attitude, subversion - has been done, and at the same time almost every chord progression has been explored, every percussive rhythm banged out. Music is not infinite

    Classical music faced the same problem in the early 20th century, and so it went down the rabbit hole of atonality, whence it has never really emerged, or recovered
    The conventional wisdom is that atonality caused non-atonal classical music into the business of Hollywood (and later television) soundtracks.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,635
    China announces fresh military drills around Taiwan

    https://twitter.com/reuterschina/status/1556536151615217665
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    TOPPING said:

    fpt

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Oh go on @Scott_P, educate me.

    Look at it this way.

    How much of the kit you bought in the 90's would still be part of your system today (notwithstanding the voltage issues) ?
    Richer Sounds always did decent kit, and it lasts well. My Marantz amp from there must be 25 years old.

    There is good new music now, despite what grandpa Leon was saying last night while showing his slides. I am a fan of Molchat Doma for example.

    https://youtu.be/s1ATTIQrmIQ
    I’m not just emotionally and artistically correct, I can scientifically prove I’m correct. Music is decreasing in complexity and variety, songs are more formulaic, lyrics are more repetitive and mundane. Music is getting worse

    https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/is-pop-music-evolving-or-is-it-just-getting-louder/


    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/science-proves-pop-music-has-actually-gotten-worse-8173368/

    https://arxiv.org/pdf/1907.04292.pdf

    https://www.mic.com/articles/107896/scientists-finally-prove-why-pop-music-all-sounds-the-same


    https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0115255
    You old git.

    On my playlist:

    Mazzy Star
    Quantic
    Tash Sultana
    DJariium
    Husky Loops
    Paul Hartnoll
    Finley Quaye
    Young Fathers
    Dave Thomas Junior
    Light Asylum
    Nitin Sawhney
    Elbow
    Unkle
    Kerli
    Wankelmut
    Leftfield
    X Ambassadors
    Silver Mt Zion
    FKA Twigs
    Covenant
    Shawn Lee's Ping Pong Orchestra
    The Allergies
    Michel Kiwanuka
    Dennis Lloyd
    Robert Levon Been
    Maribou State
    The Cinematic Orchestra
    Molotov Jukebox

    Something there for everything. You might think you recognise some of it/it's derivative of course you might but then welcome to pop music for the past 70 years.

    And that's to exclude the superstars - eg Kanye, Rihanna, Adele, Lizzo, etc, or, say, Grime.

    You need to get out more, take the Chris de Burgh tape off loop and start shazaming your way to find some new music.
    Wet Leg‘s first two singles were amongst the best of any I’ve heard for 30 or more years.



    OK let’s analysis this. i know Wet Leg, they are OK

    Here’s their first single. Chaise Longue

    https://youtu.be/Zd9jeJk2UHQ

    Pleasantly monotonous. Quirky. But “among the best singles of the last 30 years” is absolutely farcical. For a start, compare it with this song, Yellow Horse by Cowboy Racer


    https://youtu.be/5rdW_0c6zvY


    I submit they are almost identical, the deadpan approach, the slightly off key female vocals, the deliberate flatness of affect, the eccentric lyrics. The different is that Yellow Horse is better, funnier, sexier. Written 17 years ago
    Nothing the Flying Lizards weren't doing in 1979.... In 2 minutes 30.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-P2qL3qkzk

    Indeed, also very similar and even earlier

    This is yet another one of the problems faced by popular musicians. Almost everything - in terms of style, attitude, subversion - has been done, and at the same time almost every chord progression has been explored, every percussive rhythm banged out. Music is not infinite

    Classical music faced the same problem in the early 20th century, and so it went down the rabbit hole of atonality, whence it has never really emerged, or recovered
    A limited number of chord progressions is not a limitation on pop music, as you'd know if you knew anything.

    As you are always reminding us, English is a living, evolving language. An evolving language will always create new songs for new experiences.
    It absolutely is a limit unless music lurches into atonality

    AI can now write every conceivable song using the western musical scale

    “The AI software that could turn you in to a music star

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-59878572


    “You can do things such as add or strip-out instruments, change the tempo, adjust the volumes, add echoes, make everything sound brighter or softer, and lay down some vocals.

    California-based, Boomy, was launched at the end of 2018, and claims its users around the world have now created almost five million songs.”

    Five million. And this is only going to grow

    With people making billions of songs a year we will exhaust the possibilities fast

    Of course you can vary the presentation, the lyrics, instruments etc but it eventually becomes mere tweaking
    It isn't a limit because lots of songs, going back decades, already share the same chord progressions and most of the time you don't notice.

    The large number of songs being produced makes it harder to find the better songs, but it doesn't mean they won't exist.
    Do you mean that dozens of different pop songs all use the same four chords…?

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=5pidokakU4I <-- Axis of Awesome “Four Chord Song”, 70M views.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,370

    Just got our FTTP, 500Mb download is ridiculous

    Will be going from 350mb (Virgin) to 1gb (youfibre) on Saturday..

    The reason is that the price isn't that different and it's 1gb upload which is useful for some of the things I do...
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