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The Clash: London calling for Corbyn? – politicalbetting.com

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  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 26,332

    tlg86 said:

    Taz said:

    I wonder if it’s okay to call black people the n word now since it’s okay to call the French frogs

    I wonder if calling Pakistan people P***s is ok

    No. We've already done this.

    N word, P word (you probably shouldn't write it, I censored it in my reply) etc are offensive and racist.

    Yank, Frog, Pom, Scouser, Geordie etc are not. Don't be ridiculous.

    I won't hold my breath for you to react with this same mock outrage next time someone uses the term Scouse as an insult.
    Why is P**i different to Frog? Is it because you happen to use one and not the other?
    Because the P-word is racist and Frog is not.

    Same as why the N-word is verboten.

    Why are you so Ok using racist words uncensored? I censored it for you again.
    Because I am explaining what the words are.

    Just like saying I don't get why the word c**t is not allowed but fuck is. I am not using the words merely using them as an example
    FFS c*** is forbidden too!

    Using forbidden words can affect the websites advertising revenues. That's why they're forbidden!

    You can use a censored version of the word if you want to ask a question I believe but using them uncensored harms the website so don't do it!
    Who made you admin ?

    ‘I believe’ isn’t fact.

    Let the admin team here deal with it. They know, they don’t guess.
    Yes I'm being told off for simply asking what I believed to be a reasonable question by somebody who has no powers here
    I was trying to be helpful.

    You've been asked before not to use the c word uncensored, I was trying to answer your question as to why.

    If you don't want people answering questions, why ask the question? 🤷‍♂️

    But I'll leave it there. Only reason I answered the Q was you asked it and I was trying to help.

    Anyway considering you and others were lambasting me for using an entirely natural and normal word like Frog, it's a bit rich for you to complain when I answered your question. Frog is a more natural and acceptable word to use than the C word is it not?
    Arsenal fans at white hart lane a few years ago: “we can’t use the y word, we’ll just call them c****.”

    Just to be helpful here and sorry to contradict CHB, but Frog is nothing like as offensive as any of the other words mentioned. Generally the Frogs don't mind being called French, or Frogs for that matter. They refer to us as Rosbifs as reference to this is the only food we ever eat (obviously). I believe in Paris there is a pub called the Frog and Rosbif which was originally owned by a British and French couple. The Frogs are unoffended. So are the Rosbifs.
    Agreed. Although not always. Joining the frogs and rosbifs in mutual piss taking is fine. Moaning about lazy fucking frogs at the border maybe not. But I suppose swapping frogs for French wouldn’t make it much better
    Spot on. As ever context is everything. Additionally it is interesting that plenty of black people use the n-word ironically, but that doesn't make it OK for non-black people to do so.

    That said, I suspect there are plenty of Frogs having a good old laugh at the "Rosbifs and their Bregzite" right now.
    Parodied in a Jackie Chan film where he joins an African-American local somewhere edgy and urban in the States. They go out on to the street to meet the local chap's friends and neighbours. He watches them use the n-word lavishly to each other, listens attentively, then joins in politely to try out his English.
  • TazTaz Posts: 5,821

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    I wonder if it’s okay to call black people the n word now since it’s okay to call the French frogs

    I wonder if calling Pakistan people P***s is ok

    No. We've already done this.

    N word, P word (you probably shouldn't write it, I censored it in my reply) etc are offensive and racist.

    Yank, Frog, Pom, Scouser, Geordie etc are not. Don't be ridiculous.

    I won't hold my breath for you to react with this same mock outrage next time someone uses the term Scouse as an insult.
    Why is P**i different to Frog? Is it because you happen to use one and not the other?
    Because the P-word is racist and Frog is not.

    Same as why the N-word is verboten.

    Why are you so Ok using racist words uncensored? I censored it for you again.
    Because I am explaining what the words are.

    Just like saying I don't get why the word c**t is not allowed but fuck is. I am not using the words merely using them as an example
    FFS c*** is forbidden too!

    Using forbidden words can affect the websites advertising revenues. That's why they're forbidden!

    You can use a censored version of the word if you want to ask a question I believe but using them uncensored harms the website so don't do it!
    Who made you admin ?

    ‘I believe’ isn’t fact.

    Let the admin team here deal with it. They know, they don’t guess.
    Yes I'm being told off for simply asking what I believed to be a reasonable question by somebody who has no powers here
    Yeah, it is crazy and my someone who started this whole nonsense off in the first place.
    Thanks Taz, good people need to look out for each other here. Hope you are keeping well
    All good thanks. Hope you are too.
    Off on holiday soon so looking forward to that. What have you been up to
    Holidays too. Cornwall at the end of June then Mallorca. No more til September now.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 11,750
    DougSeal said:

    2015 - Because Brexit?
    image

    2005 - Because Brexit?
    image

    1988 - Because Brexit?
    image

    East Kent resident here who grew up in Canterbury, now lives a couple of miles from J10 M20. Brexit has turned these problems from something that happened one or twice a year (strikes in France, problems at sea, fires in the tunnel). to once or twice a month. I’m looking forward to the upsides of Brexit because it’s caused nothing but shite down here, Even the “French didn’t put up enough officers” doesn’t cut it - they have to do twice the checks. The traffic flow four officers could put through now needs eight. The whole thing is a British caused issue, no one else.

    BTW the 1988 photo - the M20 hadn’t even been completed in 1988. Junction 8 for Maidstone to junction 9 for Ashford opened in 1991 and at the same time the extension to Dover, as part of the A20, was also constructed and opened in 1993 and a new junction, 11A was also built for the Channel Tunnel, which also wasn’t open in 1988. I don’t know where your photo is from, the A2 maybe, but it isn’t comparable with the current situation at all.
    Yep, interesting that the government has spun it to make it the fault of the ghastly frogs. It appeals to their easily gulled core.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,489

    IshmaelZ said:

    Do Pakistanis have a word for Brits or English or white people that should be considered as offensive as the P word?

    Kafir.
    Can I safely call myself that?
    I wouldn't personally. It means unbeliever (in Islam) and there's no knowing whether saying so implicitly insults The Prophet PBUH.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 10,385
    edited July 24
    Scottish Government may withdraw funding from cricket:

    If it fails to meet its obligations, its annual funding from Scotland’s national sport agency could be withdrawn.

    Last year, Cricket Scotland received about £460,000 from Sportscotland. It’s understood, however, that the government agency is extremely concerned by the review’s findings and all options will now be on the table.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-11043695/amp/Cricket-Scotland-STRIPPED-public-funding-findings-institutional-racism.html
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 7,873

    Scottish Government may withdraw funding from cricket:

    If it fails to meet its obligations, its annual funding from Scotland’s national sport agency could be withdrawn.

    Last year, Cricket Scotland received about £460,000 from Sportscotland. It’s understood, however, that the government agency is extremely concerned by the review’s findings and all options will now be on the table.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-11043695/amp/Cricket-Scotland-STRIPPED-public-funding-findings-institutional-racism.html

    Ghastly English game. They should ban it for being the pastime of the hated coloniser.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 103,034
    edited July 24
    Corbyn comfortably won Labour in both 2017 and 2019 even when Labour lost nationally.

    I would expect him to beat whoever the official Labour and Tory candidates are much like Livingstone beat Dobson and Norris in 2000
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 11,750

    Scottish Government may withdraw funding from cricket:

    If it fails to meet its obligations, its annual funding from Scotland’s national sport agency could be withdrawn.

    Last year, Cricket Scotland received about £460,000 from Sportscotland. It’s understood, however, that the government agency is extremely concerned by the review’s findings and all options will now be on the table.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-11043695/amp/Cricket-Scotland-STRIPPED-public-funding-findings-institutional-racism.html

    Is the institutional racism also in the Scottish government because cricket is just too "English" for them?
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 3,508
    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Do Pakistanis have a word for Brits or English or white people that should be considered as offensive as the P word?

    Kafir.
    Can I safely call myself that?
    I wouldn't personally. It means unbeliever (in Islam) and there's no knowing whether saying so implicitly insults The Prophet PBUH.
    So it doesn't actually cover white, English or British.

    And acknowledging one is a kafir might insult non-kafirs?

    Jesus fucking Christ I'm glad I was born into a religion where I can say this sentence
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 36,115
    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    Carnyx said:

    TOPPING said:

    OK Jeez here's the official ranking:

    Affectionate or mostly affectionate (note: without pre- or suffix): Scouse, Pom, Manc, Jock, Brit

    Mildly insulting, put down: Frog, Sassenach, Tyke, Gammon.

    Beyond the pale words: N, P, W (thanks Bart).

    So on the basis that gammon was used in the header, frog is legitimate in a comment. Neither are the same as eg Scouse.

    Hmm, gammon is political in essence. One chooses to be a gammon car driver with backless gloves and suede sheepskin jacket, for instance.

    And *Sasunnaich* is context-dependent: in the Gàidhealtachd it would be simply descriptive, as someone from outside the linguistic boundary, a Lowlander (both Scots and English).
    Gammon is political indeed but it is like chav. Assigning a label to people because they in some way (appearance, accent, etc) conform to a derogatory stereotype.

    If you saw an oldish overweight white bloke with tatts and a red face whether through blood pressure or the sun you might call him a gammon.

    Regardless of his political views.
    You wouldn't. You'd first check by asking his views on something. Only if they were gammony would you proceed to award the epithet.
    Given your insecurities about identity I'm not sure we can take you at your word about doing a pre-insult screening.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 26,332

    Scottish Government may withdraw funding from cricket:

    If it fails to meet its obligations, its annual funding from Scotland’s national sport agency could be withdrawn.

    Last year, Cricket Scotland received about £460,000 from Sportscotland. It’s understood, however, that the government agency is extremely concerned by the review’s findings and all options will now be on the table.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-11043695/amp/Cricket-Scotland-STRIPPED-public-funding-findings-institutional-racism.html

    Is the institutional racism also in the Scottish government because cricket is just too "English" for them?
    It's a SG agency that commissioned the inquiry. "Sportscotland commissioned the independent review, led by Plan4Sport, in December 2021 after it was alerted to concerns from across Scottish cricket. Among the allegations, former Scotland cricketers Majid Haq and Qasim Sheikh accused the governing body of institutional racism."
  • DennisBetsDennisBets Posts: 244

    Scottish Government may withdraw funding from cricket:

    If it fails to meet its obligations, its annual funding from Scotland’s national sport agency could be withdrawn.

    Last year, Cricket Scotland received about £460,000 from Sportscotland. It’s understood, however, that the government agency is extremely concerned by the review’s findings and all options will now be on the table.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-11043695/amp/Cricket-Scotland-STRIPPED-public-funding-findings-institutional-racism.html

    Is the institutional racism also in the Scottish government because cricket is just too "English" for them?
    I don't know which is more ironic, the fact the Scottish Government have found another agency so bad it can publicly cease relations or the fact there is an organisation called Sport Scotland which has only just started worrying
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 36,115

    DavidL said:

    Things I have learned this week:

    Do not go to or through France for your holidays.
    The Tories really can find a worse leader than Boris, possibly even 2 of them.
    It is getting warmer.

    I am sure that there are more, but I have forgotten them again already.

    Walking to France is no bother. Other than the Pyrenees.
    First catch your elephant.
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 3,508
    TOPPING said:

    DavidL said:

    Things I have learned this week:

    Do not go to or through France for your holidays.
    The Tories really can find a worse leader than Boris, possibly even 2 of them.
    It is getting warmer.

    I am sure that there are more, but I have forgotten them again already.

    Walking to France is no bother. Other than the Pyrenees.
    First catch your elephant.
    Shanks's pony is all you need for the mini Pyrenees in Catalonia (and train or bus are both cheap). I did try to catch a yellow tortoise and a yellow train but failed dismally on both.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 17,011
    DougSeal said:

    2015 - Because Brexit?
    image

    2005 - Because Brexit?
    image

    1988 - Because Brexit?
    image

    East Kent resident here who grew up in Canterbury, now lives a couple of miles from J10 M20. Brexit has turned these problems from something that happened one or twice a year (strikes in France, problems at sea, fires in the tunnel). to once or twice a month. I’m looking forward to the upsides of Brexit because it’s caused nothing but shite down here, Even the “French didn’t put up enough officers” doesn’t cut it - they have to do twice the checks. The traffic flow four officers could put through now needs eight. The whole thing is a British caused issue, no one else.

    BTW the 1988 photo - the M20 hadn’t even been completed in 1988. Junction 8 for Maidstone to junction 9 for Ashford opened in 1991 and at the same time the extension to Dover, as part of the A20, was also constructed and opened in 1993 and a new junction, 11A was also built for the Channel Tunnel, which also wasn’t open in 1988. I don’t know where your photo is from, the A2 maybe, but it isn’t comparable with the current situation at all.
    Listen to Bartholomew. He lives in Lancashire he's bound to know.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 10,759
    HYUFD said:

    Corbyn comfortably won Labour in both 2017 and 2019 even when Labour lost nationally.

    I would expect him to beat whoever the official Labour and Tory candidates are much like Livingstone beat Dobson and Norris in 2000

    I don't know - it would depend who the Official Labour candidate was and the degree to which Momentum has or hasn't infiltrated constituency parties.

    In Newham, an Independent stood for Mayor in May who had been part of Momentum within Labour before being expelled. He finished fourth behind the Conservatives and Greens - none of the slate of "Independent" Council candidates who had been part of Momentum got anywhere near election.
  • DougSeal said:

    2015 - Because Brexit?
    image

    2005 - Because Brexit?
    image

    1988 - Because Brexit?
    image

    East Kent resident here who grew up in Canterbury, now lives a couple of miles from J10 M20. Brexit has turned these problems from something that happened one or twice a year (strikes in France, problems at sea, fires in the tunnel). to once or twice a month. I’m looking forward to the upsides of Brexit because it’s caused nothing but shite down here, Even the “French didn’t put up enough officers” doesn’t cut it - they have to do twice the checks. The traffic flow four officers could put through now needs eight. The whole thing is a British caused issue, no one else.

    BTW the 1988 photo - the M20 hadn’t even been completed in 1988. Junction 8 for Maidstone to junction 9 for Ashford opened in 1991 and at the same time the extension to Dover, as part of the A20, was also constructed and opened in 1993 and a new junction, 11A was also built for the Channel Tunnel, which also wasn’t open in 1988. I don’t know where your photo is from, the A2 maybe, but it isn’t comparable with the current situation at all.
    If it takes eight staff to do the checks then hire 8 staff. Hire nine if need be.

    Being in a political union for the sake of four border staff is beyond preposterous on the face of it.

    There may be good reasons for Remain, or Leave, or Rejoin but that you need eight staff instead of four at the international border isn't one of them.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 6,848
    IshmaelZ said:

    Back to politics

    The former Labour leadership contender Rebecca Long-Bailey has called for Labour to drop its cautious approach to the economy and fight the next election on a radical manifesto including state ownership and a living standards contract between government and public.

    In her first significant economic policy intervention since the 2020 leadership contest won by Sir Keir Starmer, Long-Bailey said Labour would need transformative policies if it was to win the next election.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jul/24/rebecca-long-bailey-calls-for-labour-to-drop-cautious-approach-to-economy

    Mad obvs but who knows? - the financial crisis this winter with bonkers Liz at the helm is going to be soooo much worse than people realise, Labour could have their best chance since 1946 to come in with a really extensive New Deal set of proposals. Shame, or good thing, Sir Interesting is at the helm and not jezza or RLB.

    It is not actually that mad an idea. A "Reduce the Cost of Living" manifesto might go down very well with the electorate
  • DennisBetsDennisBets Posts: 244
    A very insightful article header for this thread but please let it come to nothing. Corbyn will be out lighting fires and agreeing with Liz
  • stodgestodge Posts: 10,759
    I see Hankley Common is on fire again.

    Owned by the Ministry of Defence and used a lot for filming (which is a nice little income stream for the MoD). The bit burning now featured in Skyfall I believe which I liked as a Bond film.

    Stupendously silly without being completely over the top.
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 3,508
    I just opened a bottle of really nice chardonnay from Lisbon called Aluado. It's full of lovely fruity flavour, even ice cold.

    https://www.averys.com/product/White-Still+Wine/Aluado+Chardonnay-2020/2881020
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 23,537
    stodge said:

    I see Hankley Common is on fire again.

    Owned by the Ministry of Defence and used a lot for filming (which is a nice little income stream for the MoD). The bit burning now featured in Skyfall I believe which I liked as a Bond film.

    Stupendously silly without being completely over the top.

    We in the Brookwood area got another covering in smoke this afternoon. So many wildfires at the moment.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 56,095
    BREXIT obvs…..

    Europe’s stretched tourist industry is pressing governments to ease visa regulations to facilitate the entry of overseas workers, chiefly from Latin America and north Africa. “Europe won’t survive without immigrants." via ⁦@FT

    https://twitter.com/nchrysoloras/status/1551128347048120322
  • DennisBetsDennisBets Posts: 244
    Sadiq has just alienated the entire Eastern flank by kissing Seb Coe's arse and bringing back the sceptre of White elephants and Paula Radcliffe on the tele everyday for a month. Not to mention the huge losses the current stadium makes, how is any Plan B not on the table?
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 19,661
    On topic, not sure what TSE means by "it would be a struggle for Corbyn to run against the Labour party’s official candidate" - that he'd be reluctant to split the party (yes, probably) or that he wouldn't win (more doubtful). A Livingstone-style result is certainly conceivable - the Mayoral job isn't very significant in policy terms, and Londoners have a history of liking controversial candidates who don't toe their party lines. But because it's now FPTP, it could let the Tory candidate win.

    I don't think A.N. Other left-wing dissident candidate would stand a chance, though, so he might be tempted. It depends a bit on how roughly the forthcoming deselection issue is handled. Having canvassed actively there for a few years, I don't think a mainstream Labour candidate will beat him in Islington N if he does stand again - the personal vote was quite remarkable.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 6,848
    Roger said:

    DougSeal said:

    2015 - Because Brexit?
    image

    2005 - Because Brexit?
    image

    1988 - Because Brexit?
    image

    East Kent resident here who grew up in Canterbury, now lives a couple of miles from J10 M20. Brexit has turned these problems from something that happened one or twice a year (strikes in France, problems at sea, fires in the tunnel). to once or twice a month. I’m looking forward to the upsides of Brexit because it’s caused nothing but shite down here, Even the “French didn’t put up enough officers” doesn’t cut it - they have to do twice the checks. The traffic flow four officers could put through now needs eight. The whole thing is a British caused issue, no one else.

    BTW the 1988 photo - the M20 hadn’t even been completed in 1988. Junction 8 for Maidstone to junction 9 for Ashford opened in 1991 and at the same time the extension to Dover, as part of the A20, was also constructed and opened in 1993 and a new junction, 11A was also built for the Channel Tunnel, which also wasn’t open in 1988. I don’t know where your photo is from, the A2 maybe, but it isn’t comparable with the current situation at all.
    Listen to Bartholomew. He lives in Lancashire he's bound to know.
    And grew up in Australia....
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 103,509
    edited July 24

    On topic, not sure what TSE means by "it would be a struggle for Corbyn to run against the Labour party’s official candidate" - that he'd be reluctant to split the party (yes, probably) or that he wouldn't win (more doubtful). A Livingstone-style result is certainly conceivable - the Mayoral job isn't very significant in policy terms, and Londoners have a history of liking controversial candidates who don't toe their party lines. But because it's now FPTP, it could let the Tory candidate win.

    I don't think A.N. Other left-wing dissident candidate would stand a chance, though, so he might be tempted. It depends a bit on how roughly the forthcoming deselection issue is handled. Having canvassed actively there for a few years, I don't think a mainstream Labour candidate will beat him in Islington N if he does stand again - the personal vote was quite remarkable.

    I meant it would be an emotional struggle for him to run against an official Labour Party candidate and worry he'd split the vote and let the Tory win.
  • UnpopularUnpopular Posts: 500

    Scottish Government may withdraw funding from cricket:

    If it fails to meet its obligations, its annual funding from Scotland’s national sport agency could be withdrawn.

    Last year, Cricket Scotland received about £460,000 from Sportscotland. It’s understood, however, that the government agency is extremely concerned by the review’s findings and all options will now be on the table.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-11043695/amp/Cricket-Scotland-STRIPPED-public-funding-findings-institutional-racism.html

    Is the institutional racism also in the Scottish government because cricket is just too "English" for them?
    Weirdly (to me at least), I've encountered loads of Scottish fans of cricket over the years. They're not necessarily 'super fans' or anything, nor are they interested in Scottish teams but my anecdotal experience is that cricket is pretty widely enjoyed. Maybe I'm just moving in odd circles?
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 8,236

    On topic, not sure what TSE means by "it would be a struggle for Corbyn to run against the Labour party’s official candidate" - that he'd be reluctant to split the party (yes, probably) or that he wouldn't win (more doubtful). A Livingstone-style result is certainly conceivable - the Mayoral job isn't very significant in policy terms, and Londoners have a history of liking controversial candidates who don't toe their party lines. But because it's now FPTP, it could let the Tory candidate win.

    I don't think A.N. Other left-wing dissident candidate would stand a chance, though, so he might be tempted. It depends a bit on how roughly the forthcoming deselection issue is handled. Having canvassed actively there for a few years, I don't think a mainstream Labour candidate will beat him in Islington N if he does stand again - the personal vote was quite remarkable.

    Your unswavering loyalty to Corbyn baffles me. I can't see that your views (as expressed here over the years) really align with his. I also think he's far below you in terms of intellect. Perhaps you should run?
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 6,848

    Sadiq has just alienated the entire Eastern flank by kissing Seb Coe's arse and bringing back the sceptre of White elephants and Paula Radcliffe on the tele everyday for a month. Not to mention the huge losses the current stadium makes, how is any Plan B not on the table?

    Do you have a link to an English translation of this?
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 7,873

    DougSeal said:

    2015 - Because Brexit?
    image

    2005 - Because Brexit?
    image

    1988 - Because Brexit?
    image

    East Kent resident here who grew up in Canterbury, now lives a couple of miles from J10 M20. Brexit has turned these problems from something that happened one or twice a year (strikes in France, problems at sea, fires in the tunnel). to once or twice a month. I’m looking forward to the upsides of Brexit because it’s caused nothing but shite down here, Even the “French didn’t put up enough officers” doesn’t cut it - they have to do twice the checks. The traffic flow four officers could put through now needs eight. The whole thing is a British caused issue, no one else.

    BTW the 1988 photo - the M20 hadn’t even been completed in 1988. Junction 8 for Maidstone to junction 9 for Ashford opened in 1991 and at the same time the extension to Dover, as part of the A20, was also constructed and opened in 1993 and a new junction, 11A was also built for the Channel Tunnel, which also wasn’t open in 1988. I don’t know where your photo is from, the A2 maybe, but it isn’t comparable with the current situation at all.
    If it takes eight staff to do the checks then hire 8 staff. Hire nine if need be.

    Being in a political union for the sake of four border staff is beyond preposterous on the face of it.

    There may be good reasons for Remain, or Leave, or Rejoin but that you need eight staff instead of four at the international border isn't one of them.
    Straw man. Wasn’t the point of my post and you know it, it was to point out that your photos were disingenuous bollocks designed to deliberately mislead from the fact that a political movement you espouse has caused huge problems. The need for the increased border staff is “because Brexit”. It’s our bed, you made it, now we’re lying in it. Thanks. Thanks a lot.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 18,510

    IshmaelZ said:

    Back to politics

    The former Labour leadership contender Rebecca Long-Bailey has called for Labour to drop its cautious approach to the economy and fight the next election on a radical manifesto including state ownership and a living standards contract between government and public.

    In her first significant economic policy intervention since the 2020 leadership contest won by Sir Keir Starmer, Long-Bailey said Labour would need transformative policies if it was to win the next election.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jul/24/rebecca-long-bailey-calls-for-labour-to-drop-cautious-approach-to-economy

    Mad obvs but who knows? - the financial crisis this winter with bonkers Liz at the helm is going to be soooo much worse than people realise, Labour could have their best chance since 1946 to come in with a really extensive New Deal set of proposals. Shame, or good thing, Sir Interesting is at the helm and not jezza or RLB.

    It is not actually that mad an idea. A "Reduce the Cost of Living" manifesto might go down very well with the electorate
    It would go down extremely well with the electorate, but it seems unlikely, given that Labour is all in on the things that are causing the cost of living to go up. To my knowledge, they haven't proposed a single helpful policy on col so far.
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 3,508
    edited July 24
    I’m growing a crazy numbers of tomatoes in my sky garden

  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 2,787

    DougSeal said:

    2015 - Because Brexit?
    image

    2005 - Because Brexit?
    image

    1988 - Because Brexit?
    image

    East Kent resident here who grew up in Canterbury, now lives a couple of miles from J10 M20. Brexit has turned these problems from something that happened one or twice a year (strikes in France, problems at sea, fires in the tunnel). to once or twice a month. I’m looking forward to the upsides of Brexit because it’s caused nothing but shite down here, Even the “French didn’t put up enough officers” doesn’t cut it - they have to do twice the checks. The traffic flow four officers could put through now needs eight. The whole thing is a British caused issue, no one else.

    BTW the 1988 photo - the M20 hadn’t even been completed in 1988. Junction 8 for Maidstone to junction 9 for Ashford opened in 1991 and at the same time the extension to Dover, as part of the A20, was also constructed and opened in 1993 and a new junction, 11A was also built for the Channel Tunnel, which also wasn’t open in 1988. I don’t know where your photo is from, the A2 maybe, but it isn’t comparable with the current situation at all.
    If it takes eight staff to do the checks then hire 8 staff. Hire nine if need be.

    Being in a political union for the sake of four border staff is beyond preposterous on the face of it.

    There may be good reasons for Remain, or Leave, or Rejoin but that you need eight staff instead of four at the international border isn't one of them.
    Typical brexit lies.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 8,584
    edited July 24
    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    2015 - Because Brexit?
    image

    2005 - Because Brexit?
    image

    1988 - Because Brexit?
    image

    East Kent resident here who grew up in Canterbury, now lives a couple of miles from J10 M20. Brexit has turned these problems from something that happened one or twice a year (strikes in France, problems at sea, fires in the tunnel). to once or twice a month. I’m looking forward to the upsides of Brexit because it’s caused nothing but shite down here, Even the “French didn’t put up enough officers” doesn’t cut it - they have to do twice the checks. The traffic flow four officers could put through now needs eight. The whole thing is a British caused issue, no one else.

    BTW the 1988 photo - the M20 hadn’t even been completed in 1988. Junction 8 for Maidstone to junction 9 for Ashford opened in 1991 and at the same time the extension to Dover, as part of the A20, was also constructed and opened in 1993 and a new junction, 11A was also built for the Channel Tunnel, which also wasn’t open in 1988. I don’t know where your photo is from, the A2 maybe, but it isn’t comparable with the current situation at all.
    If it takes eight staff to do the checks then hire 8 staff. Hire nine if need be.

    Being in a political union for the sake of four border staff is beyond preposterous on the face of it.

    There may be good reasons for Remain, or Leave, or Rejoin but that you need eight staff instead of four at the international border isn't one of them.
    Straw man. Wasn’t the point of my post and you know it, it was to point out that your photos were disingenuous bollocks designed to deliberately mislead from the fact that a political movement you espouse has caused huge problems. The need for the increased border staff is “because Brexit”. It’s our bed, you made it, now we’re lying in it. Thanks. Thanks a lot.
    They're not disingenuous bollocks, the point is that the border has had backlogs for decades whenever the French are short staffed at the border. Bugger all to do with Brexit.

    If it takes 4 staff and they only have 2, or it takes 8 staff and they only have 4, is neither here nor there. Staffing levels should be at whatever is needed, if they're not then that has sod all to do with Brexit.

    It's been six years since the vote. If 4 more staff were required and they haven't bothered to hire 4 people in six years that's not due to my or your vote.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 8,236

    I’m growing crazy numbers of tomatoes in my sky garden

    Poor old 27 - she's done well in between 26 and 28. Keeping quiet, and no doubt entertaining far too many parties of the profligate 3s.
  • DennisBetsDennisBets Posts: 244

    Sadiq has just alienated the entire Eastern flank by kissing Seb Coe's arse and bringing back the sceptre of White elephants and Paula Radcliffe on the tele everyday for a month. Not to mention the huge losses the current stadium makes, how is any Plan B not on the table?

    Do you have a link to an English translation of this?
    Yes it is a reference to the continued ownership of the Olympic Stadium by a company which loses millions per year. Sadiq (The current Mayor of London (large urban conurbation in the South East of the UK) wants to bid again for the 2030 something Olympics meaning the stadium will have a running track in it and will therefore continue to lose public money.

    Sorry I thought this was a thread on associated issued regarding possible Mayor of London candidates and the consequential issues surrounding
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 18,510
    stodge said:

    I see Hankley Common is on fire again.

    Owned by the Ministry of Defence and used a lot for filming (which is a nice little income stream for the MoD). The bit burning now featured in Skyfall I believe which I liked as a Bond film.

    Stupendously silly without being completely over the top.

    I thought it was one of the worst. For the same reasons really; I suppose what you appreciated was what I disliked. To me it was a stupid, reductive spoof. Goldeneye was a great modern Bond with nostalgic nods to the old films.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 2,787

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    2015 - Because Brexit?
    image

    2005 - Because Brexit?
    image

    1988 - Because Brexit?
    image

    East Kent resident here who grew up in Canterbury, now lives a couple of miles from J10 M20. Brexit has turned these problems from something that happened one or twice a year (strikes in France, problems at sea, fires in the tunnel). to once or twice a month. I’m looking forward to the upsides of Brexit because it’s caused nothing but shite down here, Even the “French didn’t put up enough officers” doesn’t cut it - they have to do twice the checks. The traffic flow four officers could put through now needs eight. The whole thing is a British caused issue, no one else.

    BTW the 1988 photo - the M20 hadn’t even been completed in 1988. Junction 8 for Maidstone to junction 9 for Ashford opened in 1991 and at the same time the extension to Dover, as part of the A20, was also constructed and opened in 1993 and a new junction, 11A was also built for the Channel Tunnel, which also wasn’t open in 1988. I don’t know where your photo is from, the A2 maybe, but it isn’t comparable with the current situation at all.
    If it takes eight staff to do the checks then hire 8 staff. Hire nine if need be.

    Being in a political union for the sake of four border staff is beyond preposterous on the face of it.

    There may be good reasons for Remain, or Leave, or Rejoin but that you need eight staff instead of four at the international border isn't one of them.
    Straw man. Wasn’t the point of my post and you know it, it was to point out that your photos were disingenuous bollocks designed to deliberately mislead from the fact that a political movement you espouse has caused huge problems. The need for the increased border staff is “because Brexit”. It’s our bed, you made it, now we’re lying in it. Thanks. Thanks a lot.
    They're not disingenuous bollocks, the point is that the border has had backlogs for decades whenever the French are short staffed at the border. Bugger all to do with Brexit.

    If it takes 4 staff and they only have 2, or it takes 8 staff and they only have 4, is neither here nor there. Staffing levels should be at whatever is needed, if they're not then that has sod all to do with Brexit.

    It's been six years since the vote. If 4 more staff were required and they haven't bothered to hire 4 people in six years that's not due to my or your vote.
    You moron, Brexit is the reason we need them in the first place!
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 7,137
    edited July 24
    The header reminds me very much of the fight between Ken Livingstone and Tony Blair over the London mayoralty. Look who won that - although that's not to say I think Corbyn would be of the calibre of Livingstone at the top job.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 16,590

    Sadiq has just alienated the entire Eastern flank by kissing Seb Coe's arse and bringing back the sceptre of White elephants and Paula Radcliffe on the tele everyday for a month. Not to mention the huge losses the current stadium makes, how is any Plan B not on the table?

    Do you have a link to an English translation of this?
    Tenth anniversary of the London Olympics some time this week, and talk of bidding to host another Games. At a guess.
  • DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    2015 - Because Brexit?
    image

    2005 - Because Brexit?
    image

    1988 - Because Brexit?
    image

    East Kent resident here who grew up in Canterbury, now lives a couple of miles from J10 M20. Brexit has turned these problems from something that happened one or twice a year (strikes in France, problems at sea, fires in the tunnel). to once or twice a month. I’m looking forward to the upsides of Brexit because it’s caused nothing but shite down here, Even the “French didn’t put up enough officers” doesn’t cut it - they have to do twice the checks. The traffic flow four officers could put through now needs eight. The whole thing is a British caused issue, no one else.

    BTW the 1988 photo - the M20 hadn’t even been completed in 1988. Junction 8 for Maidstone to junction 9 for Ashford opened in 1991 and at the same time the extension to Dover, as part of the A20, was also constructed and opened in 1993 and a new junction, 11A was also built for the Channel Tunnel, which also wasn’t open in 1988. I don’t know where your photo is from, the A2 maybe, but it isn’t comparable with the current situation at all.
    If it takes eight staff to do the checks then hire 8 staff. Hire nine if need be.

    Being in a political union for the sake of four border staff is beyond preposterous on the face of it.

    There may be good reasons for Remain, or Leave, or Rejoin but that you need eight staff instead of four at the international border isn't one of them.
    Straw man. Wasn’t the point of my post and you know it, it was to point out that your photos were disingenuous bollocks designed to deliberately mislead from the fact that a political movement you espouse has caused huge problems. The need for the increased border staff is “because Brexit”. It’s our bed, you made it, now we’re lying in it. Thanks. Thanks a lot.
    They're not disingenuous bollocks, the point is that the border has had backlogs for decades whenever the French are short staffed at the border. Bugger all to do with Brexit.

    If it takes 4 staff and they only have 2, or it takes 8 staff and they only have 4, is neither here nor there. Staffing levels should be at whatever is needed, if they're not then that has sod all to do with Brexit.

    It's been six years since the vote. If 4 more staff were required and they haven't bothered to hire 4 people in six years that's not due to my or your vote.
    You moron, Brexit is the reason we need them in the first place!
    Bollocks the reason we need them in the first place is we aren't in Schengen!

    We always needed border staff as we aren't in Schengen. Whether you need slightly more or not is neither here nor there, you hire to meet the demand. If there's extra demand then hire more, that's not a reason to be in a political union.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 3,706
    I just had a long lunch and not a few after-lunch drinks with a former colleague who is high up in government - the first time we'd met since before the recent epidemic. As a civil servant, he deals with many politicians across government, so had interesting insights into what they are like in government rather than politically. He is not very political himself, though he has no time for Corbynites or the extreme right.

    Truss he finds pleasant and well-meaning but not particularly bright. Sunak he thinks bright (or at least "almost as smart as he thinks he is") but lacking in judgement. He worked with Jeremy Hunt for a while, and thinks we'd still be in lockdown if he were PM. To my surprise, he found my old friend Kwasi one of the best to deal with - businesslike and always on top of his briefs. Grant Shapps he finds completely political and obsessed by Twitter. He hadn't worked with Mordaunt or Kemi so couldn't comment on them.

    Interestingly, for a civil servant, he thinks the civil service isn't up to the job and needs fundamental reform.
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 3,508
    Omnium said:

    I’m growing crazy numbers of tomatoes in my sky garden

    Poor old 27 - she's done well in between 26 and 28. Keeping quiet, and no doubt entertaining far too many parties of the profligate 3s.
    If I tried to count them I expect I'd become a statistic myself. Harvesting them will likely be treacherous too - I can only reach about a third of the fruit, some of that while balancing one footed on top of a box that raises me eighteen inches

    I need to invest in a step ladder
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 46,643
    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    2015 - Because Brexit?
    image

    2005 - Because Brexit?
    image

    1988 - Because Brexit?
    image

    East Kent resident here who grew up in Canterbury, now lives a couple of miles from J10 M20. Brexit has turned these problems from something that happened one or twice a year (strikes in France, problems at sea, fires in the tunnel). to once or twice a month. I’m looking forward to the upsides of Brexit because it’s caused nothing but shite down here, Even the “French didn’t put up enough officers” doesn’t cut it - they have to do twice the checks. The traffic flow four officers could put through now needs eight. The whole thing is a British caused issue, no one else.

    BTW the 1988 photo - the M20 hadn’t even been completed in 1988. Junction 8 for Maidstone to junction 9 for Ashford opened in 1991 and at the same time the extension to Dover, as part of the A20, was also constructed and opened in 1993 and a new junction, 11A was also built for the Channel Tunnel, which also wasn’t open in 1988. I don’t know where your photo is from, the A2 maybe, but it isn’t comparable with the current situation at all.
    If it takes eight staff to do the checks then hire 8 staff. Hire nine if need be.

    Being in a political union for the sake of four border staff is beyond preposterous on the face of it.

    There may be good reasons for Remain, or Leave, or Rejoin but that you need eight staff instead of four at the international border isn't one of them.
    Straw man. Wasn’t the point of my post and you know it, it was to point out that your photos were disingenuous bollocks designed to deliberately mislead from the fact that a political movement you espouse has caused huge problems. The need for the increased border staff is “because Brexit”. It’s our bed, you made it, now we’re lying in it. Thanks. Thanks a lot.
    Operation Brock has superseded Operation Stack.

    As far as I can see it's been activated only three times in the past two years due to coronavirus, poor weather and the P&O labour dispute:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Brock
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 42,081
    edited July 24
    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    2015 - Because Brexit?
    image

    2005 - Because Brexit?
    image

    1988 - Because Brexit?
    image

    East Kent resident here who grew up in Canterbury, now lives a couple of miles from J10 M20. Brexit has turned these problems from something that happened one or twice a year (strikes in France, problems at sea, fires in the tunnel). to once or twice a month. I’m looking forward to the upsides of Brexit because it’s caused nothing but shite down here, Even the “French didn’t put up enough officers” doesn’t cut it - they have to do twice the checks. The traffic flow four officers could put through now needs eight. The whole thing is a British caused issue, no one else.

    BTW the 1988 photo - the M20 hadn’t even been completed in 1988. Junction 8 for Maidstone to junction 9 for Ashford opened in 1991 and at the same time the extension to Dover, as part of the A20, was also constructed and opened in 1993 and a new junction, 11A was also built for the Channel Tunnel, which also wasn’t open in 1988. I don’t know where your photo is from, the A2 maybe, but it isn’t comparable with the current situation at all.
    If it takes eight staff to do the checks then hire 8 staff. Hire nine if need be.

    Being in a political union for the sake of four border staff is beyond preposterous on the face of it.

    There may be good reasons for Remain, or Leave, or Rejoin but that you need eight staff instead of four at the international border isn't one of them.
    Straw man. Wasn’t the point of my post and you know it, it was to point out that your photos were disingenuous bollocks designed to deliberately mislead from the fact that a political movement you espouse has caused huge problems. The need for the increased border staff is “because Brexit”. It’s our bed, you made it, now we’re lying in it. Thanks. Thanks a lot.
    They're not disingenuous bollocks, the point is that the border has had backlogs for decades whenever the French are short staffed at the border. Bugger all to do with Brexit.

    If it takes 4 staff and they only have 2, or it takes 8 staff and they only have 4, is neither here nor there. Staffing levels should be at whatever is needed, if they're not then that has sod all to do with Brexit.
    It is utterly disingenuous. Did you read my post? The idea that the “border had had backlogs for decades” is disingenuous shite. It is in fact misleading, a lie even. Yes, there were occasional delays as I concede, but they are now essentially permanent. That is disingenuous. You grew up in Australia and live in Warrington., I am English, grew up in Kent, use and have used the M20 every week for years. My brother did a course in Calais that he commuted to from Canterbury. He can’t do that now. Yes, Brexit has made it worse.

    Why should the French pay for increased staffing levels needed by Brexit? Previously the French taxpayer had to fund roughly half as many border officers for our convenience. You are making them fund twice as many. Are you prepared for the U.K. govt to pay the French for more border officers? Why should they pay for Brexit?
    As a general principle, states pay for their own border infrastructure to cope with the necessary volume. Brexit doesn't somehow turn this on its head and make the UK responsible for for funding French border controls.
  • DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    2015 - Because Brexit?
    image

    2005 - Because Brexit?
    image

    1988 - Because Brexit?
    image

    East Kent resident here who grew up in Canterbury, now lives a couple of miles from J10 M20. Brexit has turned these problems from something that happened one or twice a year (strikes in France, problems at sea, fires in the tunnel). to once or twice a month. I’m looking forward to the upsides of Brexit because it’s caused nothing but shite down here, Even the “French didn’t put up enough officers” doesn’t cut it - they have to do twice the checks. The traffic flow four officers could put through now needs eight. The whole thing is a British caused issue, no one else.

    BTW the 1988 photo - the M20 hadn’t even been completed in 1988. Junction 8 for Maidstone to junction 9 for Ashford opened in 1991 and at the same time the extension to Dover, as part of the A20, was also constructed and opened in 1993 and a new junction, 11A was also built for the Channel Tunnel, which also wasn’t open in 1988. I don’t know where your photo is from, the A2 maybe, but it isn’t comparable with the current situation at all.
    If it takes eight staff to do the checks then hire 8 staff. Hire nine if need be.

    Being in a political union for the sake of four border staff is beyond preposterous on the face of it.

    There may be good reasons for Remain, or Leave, or Rejoin but that you need eight staff instead of four at the international border isn't one of them.
    Straw man. Wasn’t the point of my post and you know it, it was to point out that your photos were disingenuous bollocks designed to deliberately mislead from the fact that a political movement you espouse has caused huge problems. The need for the increased border staff is “because Brexit”. It’s our bed, you made it, now we’re lying in it. Thanks. Thanks a lot.
    They're not disingenuous bollocks, the point is that the border has had backlogs for decades whenever the French are short staffed at the border. Bugger all to do with Brexit.

    If it takes 4 staff and they only have 2, or it takes 8 staff and they only have 4, is neither here nor there. Staffing levels should be at whatever is needed, if they're not then that has sod all to do with Brexit.
    It is utterly disingenuous. Did you read my post? The idea that the “border had had backlogs for decades” is disingenuous shite. It is in fact misleading, a lie even. Yes, there were occasional delays as I concede, but they are now essentially permanent. That is disingenuous. You grew up in Australia and live in Warrington., I am English, grew up in Kent, use and have used the M20 every week for years. My brother did a course in Calais that he commuted to from Canterbury. He couldn’t do that now. Yes, Brexit has made it worse.

    Why should the French pay for increased staffing levels needed by Brexit? Previously the French taxpayer had to fund roughly half as many border officers for our convenience. You are making them fund twice as many. Are you prepared for the U.K. govt to pay the French for more border officers? Why should they pay for Brexit?
    Why should they pay to police their border? Because it's their border.

    They can make decisions that affect us, that's fine, we have to adjust.

    People adjust in life to changing circumstances. Sticking with the status quo because if you don't a third party may need four more staff in six years time is preposterous. If they need staff - hire them.
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 3,508
    I love the French, and their insouciance to us is probably my favourite thing about them
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 9,512
    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    2015 - Because Brexit?
    image

    2005 - Because Brexit?
    image

    1988 - Because Brexit?
    image

    East Kent resident here who grew up in Canterbury, now lives a couple of miles from J10 M20. Brexit has turned these problems from something that happened one or twice a year (strikes in France, problems at sea, fires in the tunnel). to once or twice a month. I’m looking forward to the upsides of Brexit because it’s caused nothing but shite down here, Even the “French didn’t put up enough officers” doesn’t cut it - they have to do twice the checks. The traffic flow four officers could put through now needs eight. The whole thing is a British caused issue, no one else.

    BTW the 1988 photo - the M20 hadn’t even been completed in 1988. Junction 8 for Maidstone to junction 9 for Ashford opened in 1991 and at the same time the extension to Dover, as part of the A20, was also constructed and opened in 1993 and a new junction, 11A was also built for the Channel Tunnel, which also wasn’t open in 1988. I don’t know where your photo is from, the A2 maybe, but it isn’t comparable with the current situation at all.
    If it takes eight staff to do the checks then hire 8 staff. Hire nine if need be.

    Being in a political union for the sake of four border staff is beyond preposterous on the face of it.

    There may be good reasons for Remain, or Leave, or Rejoin but that you need eight staff instead of four at the international border isn't one of them.
    Straw man. Wasn’t the point of my post and you know it, it was to point out that your photos were disingenuous bollocks designed to deliberately mislead from the fact that a political movement you espouse has caused huge problems. The need for the increased border staff is “because Brexit”. It’s our bed, you made it, now we’re lying in it. Thanks. Thanks a lot.
    They're not disingenuous bollocks, the point is that the border has had backlogs for decades whenever the French are short staffed at the border. Bugger all to do with Brexit.

    If it takes 4 staff and they only have 2, or it takes 8 staff and they only have 4, is neither here nor there. Staffing levels should be at whatever is needed, if they're not then that has sod all to do with Brexit.
    It is utterly disingenuous. Did you read my post? The idea that the “border had had backlogs for decades” is disingenuous shite. It is in fact misleading, a lie even. Yes, there were occasional delays as I concede, but they are now essentially permanent. That is disingenuous. You grew up in Australia and live in Warrington., I am English, grew up in Kent, use and have used the M20 every week for years. My brother did a course in Calais that he commuted to from Canterbury. He couldn’t do that now. Yes, Brexit has made it worse.

    Why should the French pay for increased staffing levels needed by Brexit? Previously the French taxpayer had to fund roughly half as many border officers for our convenience. You are making them fund twice as many. Are you prepared for the U.K. govt to pay the French for more border officers? Why should they pay for Brexit?
    I’m not convinced that the backlogs now are essentially permanent. They are in the news as they were newsworthy. As in, not permanent. We are back to normal now.
    For sure Brexit has played a part. But so has covid (lots of delayed holidays being taken now, including vouchers needing to be used). It’s the first weekend of the holidays. There seems to have been a technical issue that had big ramifications. But it’s not all Brexit, and it’s disingenuous to say it is.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 11,750

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    2015 - Because Brexit?
    image

    2005 - Because Brexit?
    image

    1988 - Because Brexit?
    image

    East Kent resident here who grew up in Canterbury, now lives a couple of miles from J10 M20. Brexit has turned these problems from something that happened one or twice a year (strikes in France, problems at sea, fires in the tunnel). to once or twice a month. I’m looking forward to the upsides of Brexit because it’s caused nothing but shite down here, Even the “French didn’t put up enough officers” doesn’t cut it - they have to do twice the checks. The traffic flow four officers could put through now needs eight. The whole thing is a British caused issue, no one else.

    BTW the 1988 photo - the M20 hadn’t even been completed in 1988. Junction 8 for Maidstone to junction 9 for Ashford opened in 1991 and at the same time the extension to Dover, as part of the A20, was also constructed and opened in 1993 and a new junction, 11A was also built for the Channel Tunnel, which also wasn’t open in 1988. I don’t know where your photo is from, the A2 maybe, but it isn’t comparable with the current situation at all.
    If it takes eight staff to do the checks then hire 8 staff. Hire nine if need be.

    Being in a political union for the sake of four border staff is beyond preposterous on the face of it.

    There may be good reasons for Remain, or Leave, or Rejoin but that you need eight staff instead of four at the international border isn't one of them.
    Straw man. Wasn’t the point of my post and you know it, it was to point out that your photos were disingenuous bollocks designed to deliberately mislead from the fact that a political movement you espouse has caused huge problems. The need for the increased border staff is “because Brexit”. It’s our bed, you made it, now we’re lying in it. Thanks. Thanks a lot.
    They're not disingenuous bollocks, the point is that the border has had backlogs for decades whenever the French are short staffed at the border. Bugger all to do with Brexit.

    If it takes 4 staff and they only have 2, or it takes 8 staff and they only have 4, is neither here nor there. Staffing levels should be at whatever is needed, if they're not then that has sod all to do with Brexit.

    It's been six years since the vote. If 4 more staff were required and they haven't bothered to hire 4 people in six years that's not due to my or your vote.
    You moron, Brexit is the reason we need them in the first place!
    Bollocks the reason we need them in the first place is we aren't in Schengen!

    We always needed border staff as we aren't in Schengen. Whether you need slightly more or not is neither here nor there, you hire to meet the demand. If there's extra demand then hire more, that's not a reason to be in a political union.
    You are so dense I am going to start calling you Malcolm. The reason for the delay, Malc, is that the passports now have to be stamped and they didn't before. If you travelled a bit more, or did a job, rather than spending all your waking hours at a keyboard trotting out ill-informed opinions based on zero experience you would work this one out. Why don't you just accept that this is because of Brexit (which it is) instead of accepting the government propaganda ( basically anti-French xenophobia) and say, "Oh well, all these people are inconvenienced, but fuck them I got Brexit which I think it is worth it" . You are either completely stupid or more dishonest than Boris Johnson and Lightweight Lizzy put together.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 8,236

    Omnium said:

    I’m growing crazy numbers of tomatoes in my sky garden

    Poor old 27 - she's done well in between 26 and 28. Keeping quiet, and no doubt entertaining far too many parties of the profligate 3s.
    If I tried to count them I expect I'd become a statistic myself. Harvesting them will likely be treacherous too - I can only reach about a third of the fruit, some of that while balancing one footed on top of a box that raises me eighteen inches

    I need to invest in a step ladder
    In the photo I think 27, but I was obviously just seeking the 'crazy number' you'd insulted. Tomato plants give an air to a greenhouse that I really like.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 2,787

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    2015 - Because Brexit?
    image

    2005 - Because Brexit?
    image

    1988 - Because Brexit?
    image

    East Kent resident here who grew up in Canterbury, now lives a couple of miles from J10 M20. Brexit has turned these problems from something that happened one or twice a year (strikes in France, problems at sea, fires in the tunnel). to once or twice a month. I’m looking forward to the upsides of Brexit because it’s caused nothing but shite down here, Even the “French didn’t put up enough officers” doesn’t cut it - they have to do twice the checks. The traffic flow four officers could put through now needs eight. The whole thing is a British caused issue, no one else.

    BTW the 1988 photo - the M20 hadn’t even been completed in 1988. Junction 8 for Maidstone to junction 9 for Ashford opened in 1991 and at the same time the extension to Dover, as part of the A20, was also constructed and opened in 1993 and a new junction, 11A was also built for the Channel Tunnel, which also wasn’t open in 1988. I don’t know where your photo is from, the A2 maybe, but it isn’t comparable with the current situation at all.
    If it takes eight staff to do the checks then hire 8 staff. Hire nine if need be.

    Being in a political union for the sake of four border staff is beyond preposterous on the face of it.

    There may be good reasons for Remain, or Leave, or Rejoin but that you need eight staff instead of four at the international border isn't one of them.
    Straw man. Wasn’t the point of my post and you know it, it was to point out that your photos were disingenuous bollocks designed to deliberately mislead from the fact that a political movement you espouse has caused huge problems. The need for the increased border staff is “because Brexit”. It’s our bed, you made it, now we’re lying in it. Thanks. Thanks a lot.
    They're not disingenuous bollocks, the point is that the border has had backlogs for decades whenever the French are short staffed at the border. Bugger all to do with Brexit.

    If it takes 4 staff and they only have 2, or it takes 8 staff and they only have 4, is neither here nor there. Staffing levels should be at whatever is needed, if they're not then that has sod all to do with Brexit.

    It's been six years since the vote. If 4 more staff were required and they haven't bothered to hire 4 people in six years that's not due to my or your vote.
    You moron, Brexit is the reason we need them in the first place!
    Bollocks the reason we need them in the first place is we aren't in Schengen!

    We always needed border staff as we aren't in Schengen. Whether you need slightly more or not is neither here nor there, you hire to meet the demand. If there's extra demand then hire more, that's not a reason to be in a political union.
    We only needed a token border post as we waived our passports. Now details are taken because of the 90 day rule, so it is Brexit.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 7,873

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    2015 - Because Brexit?
    image

    2005 - Because Brexit?
    image

    1988 - Because Brexit?
    image

    East Kent resident here who grew up in Canterbury, now lives a couple of miles from J10 M20. Brexit has turned these problems from something that happened one or twice a year (strikes in France, problems at sea, fires in the tunnel). to once or twice a month. I’m looking forward to the upsides of Brexit because it’s caused nothing but shite down here, Even the “French didn’t put up enough officers” doesn’t cut it - they have to do twice the checks. The traffic flow four officers could put through now needs eight. The whole thing is a British caused issue, no one else.

    BTW the 1988 photo - the M20 hadn’t even been completed in 1988. Junction 8 for Maidstone to junction 9 for Ashford opened in 1991 and at the same time the extension to Dover, as part of the A20, was also constructed and opened in 1993 and a new junction, 11A was also built for the Channel Tunnel, which also wasn’t open in 1988. I don’t know where your photo is from, the A2 maybe, but it isn’t comparable with the current situation at all.
    If it takes eight staff to do the checks then hire 8 staff. Hire nine if need be.

    Being in a political union for the sake of four border staff is beyond preposterous on the face of it.

    There may be good reasons for Remain, or Leave, or Rejoin but that you need eight staff instead of four at the international border isn't one of them.
    Straw man. Wasn’t the point of my post and you know it, it was to point out that your photos were disingenuous bollocks designed to deliberately mislead from the fact that a political movement you espouse has caused huge problems. The need for the increased border staff is “because Brexit”. It’s our bed, you made it, now we’re lying in it. Thanks. Thanks a lot.
    They're not disingenuous bollocks, the point is that the border has had backlogs for decades whenever the French are short staffed at the border. Bugger all to do with Brexit.

    If it takes 4 staff and they only have 2, or it takes 8 staff and they only have 4, is neither here nor there. Staffing levels should be at whatever is needed, if they're not then that has sod all to do with Brexit.
    It is utterly disingenuous. Did you read my post? The idea that the “border had had backlogs for decades” is disingenuous shite. It is in fact misleading, a lie even. Yes, there were occasional delays as I concede, but they are now essentially permanent. That is disingenuous. You grew up in Australia and live in Warrington., I am English, grew up in Kent, use and have used the M20 every week for years. My brother did a course in Calais that he commuted to from Canterbury. He couldn’t do that now. Yes, Brexit has made it worse.

    Why should the French pay for increased staffing levels needed by Brexit? Previously the French taxpayer had to fund roughly half as many border officers for our convenience. You are making them fund twice as many. Are you prepared for the U.K. govt to pay the French for more border officers? Why should they pay for Brexit?
    Why should they pay to police their border? Because it's their border.

    They can make decisions that affect us, that's fine, we have to adjust.

    People adjust in life to changing circumstances. Sticking with the status quo because if you don't a third party may need four more staff in six years time is preposterous. If they need staff - hire them.
    What’s this “we” bollocks? You don’t have to adjust. You don’t live here. Unfortunately Kent can’t adjust. We are 200 miles from Warrington but only 20 from France. You (and TBF most of this county’s voters) put us, not you, in this position.

    How’s the tunnel to Australia coming along? Can you get me a ticket there as cheap as a trip to France?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 43,125
    Viktor Orbán sparks outrage with attack on ‘race mixing’ in Europe
    Hungary’s far-right prime minister says countries where races mingle are ‘no longer nations’
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jul/24/viktor-orban-against-race-mixing-europe-hungary
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 11,750
    OT: wouldn't it be great if Corbyn was humiliated and then Johnson tried to get re-nominated as leader and was also humiliated all in the same year. The two most catastrophic "leaders" ever to have been inflicted on the British electorate. They cannot be humbled enough IMO.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 46,643

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    2015 - Because Brexit?
    image

    2005 - Because Brexit?
    image

    1988 - Because Brexit?
    image

    East Kent resident here who grew up in Canterbury, now lives a couple of miles from J10 M20. Brexit has turned these problems from something that happened one or twice a year (strikes in France, problems at sea, fires in the tunnel). to once or twice a month. I’m looking forward to the upsides of Brexit because it’s caused nothing but shite down here, Even the “French didn’t put up enough officers” doesn’t cut it - they have to do twice the checks. The traffic flow four officers could put through now needs eight. The whole thing is a British caused issue, no one else.

    BTW the 1988 photo - the M20 hadn’t even been completed in 1988. Junction 8 for Maidstone to junction 9 for Ashford opened in 1991 and at the same time the extension to Dover, as part of the A20, was also constructed and opened in 1993 and a new junction, 11A was also built for the Channel Tunnel, which also wasn’t open in 1988. I don’t know where your photo is from, the A2 maybe, but it isn’t comparable with the current situation at all.
    If it takes eight staff to do the checks then hire 8 staff. Hire nine if need be.

    Being in a political union for the sake of four border staff is beyond preposterous on the face of it.

    There may be good reasons for Remain, or Leave, or Rejoin but that you need eight staff instead of four at the international border isn't one of them.
    Straw man. Wasn’t the point of my post and you know it, it was to point out that your photos were disingenuous bollocks designed to deliberately mislead from the fact that a political movement you espouse has caused huge problems. The need for the increased border staff is “because Brexit”. It’s our bed, you made it, now we’re lying in it. Thanks. Thanks a lot.
    They're not disingenuous bollocks, the point is that the border has had backlogs for decades whenever the French are short staffed at the border. Bugger all to do with Brexit.

    If it takes 4 staff and they only have 2, or it takes 8 staff and they only have 4, is neither here nor there. Staffing levels should be at whatever is needed, if they're not then that has sod all to do with Brexit.
    It is utterly disingenuous. Did you read my post? The idea that the “border had had backlogs for decades” is disingenuous shite. It is in fact misleading, a lie even. Yes, there were occasional delays as I concede, but they are now essentially permanent. That is disingenuous. You grew up in Australia and live in Warrington., I am English, grew up in Kent, use and have used the M20 every week for years. My brother did a course in Calais that he commuted to from Canterbury. He couldn’t do that now. Yes, Brexit has made it worse.

    Why should the French pay for increased staffing levels needed by Brexit? Previously the French taxpayer had to fund roughly half as many border officers for our convenience. You are making them fund twice as many. Are you prepared for the U.K. govt to pay the French for more border officers? Why should they pay for Brexit?
    I’m not convinced that the backlogs now are essentially permanent. They are in the news as they were newsworthy. As in, not permanent. We are back to normal now.
    For sure Brexit has played a part. But so has covid (lots of delayed holidays being taken now, including vouchers needing to be used). It’s the first weekend of the holidays. There seems to have been a technical issue that had big ramifications. But it’s not all Brexit, and it’s disingenuous to say it is.
    They're not permanent. Operation Brock was deactivated entirely last month (and it was only active at all due to the P&O labour dispute) - it's activation is a function of the available ferry routes across the channel and the labour to process them.

    Yes, Brexit makes a need for a little bit more labour at the margins but it's a very small factor and in no way the deciding one.
  • eekeek Posts: 21,107

    Sadiq has just alienated the entire Eastern flank by kissing Seb Coe's arse and bringing back the sceptre of White elephants and Paula Radcliffe on the tele everyday for a month. Not to mention the huge losses the current stadium makes, how is any Plan B not on the table?

    Do you have a link to an English translation of this?
    Tenth anniversary of the London Olympics some time this week, and talk of bidding to host another Games. At a guess.
    Yep we seem to be planning to for the 2036 Olympics https://www.skysports.com/amp/olympics/news/15234/12656875/london-working-on-bid-to-host-greenest-ever-olympics-and-paralympics-says-mayor-sadiq-khan
  • DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    2015 - Because Brexit?
    image

    2005 - Because Brexit?
    image

    1988 - Because Brexit?
    image

    East Kent resident here who grew up in Canterbury, now lives a couple of miles from J10 M20. Brexit has turned these problems from something that happened one or twice a year (strikes in France, problems at sea, fires in the tunnel). to once or twice a month. I’m looking forward to the upsides of Brexit because it’s caused nothing but shite down here, Even the “French didn’t put up enough officers” doesn’t cut it - they have to do twice the checks. The traffic flow four officers could put through now needs eight. The whole thing is a British caused issue, no one else.

    BTW the 1988 photo - the M20 hadn’t even been completed in 1988. Junction 8 for Maidstone to junction 9 for Ashford opened in 1991 and at the same time the extension to Dover, as part of the A20, was also constructed and opened in 1993 and a new junction, 11A was also built for the Channel Tunnel, which also wasn’t open in 1988. I don’t know where your photo is from, the A2 maybe, but it isn’t comparable with the current situation at all.
    If it takes eight staff to do the checks then hire 8 staff. Hire nine if need be.

    Being in a political union for the sake of four border staff is beyond preposterous on the face of it.

    There may be good reasons for Remain, or Leave, or Rejoin but that you need eight staff instead of four at the international border isn't one of them.
    Straw man. Wasn’t the point of my post and you know it, it was to point out that your photos were disingenuous bollocks designed to deliberately mislead from the fact that a political movement you espouse has caused huge problems. The need for the increased border staff is “because Brexit”. It’s our bed, you made it, now we’re lying in it. Thanks. Thanks a lot.
    They're not disingenuous bollocks, the point is that the border has had backlogs for decades whenever the French are short staffed at the border. Bugger all to do with Brexit.

    If it takes 4 staff and they only have 2, or it takes 8 staff and they only have 4, is neither here nor there. Staffing levels should be at whatever is needed, if they're not then that has sod all to do with Brexit.

    It's been six years since the vote. If 4 more staff were required and they haven't bothered to hire 4 people in six years that's not due to my or your vote.
    You moron, Brexit is the reason we need them in the first place!
    Bollocks the reason we need them in the first place is we aren't in Schengen!

    We always needed border staff as we aren't in Schengen. Whether you need slightly more or not is neither here nor there, you hire to meet the demand. If there's extra demand then hire more, that's not a reason to be in a political union.
    You are so dense I am going to start calling you Malcolm. The reason for the delay, Malc, is that the passports now have to be stamped and they didn't before. If you travelled a bit more, or did a job, rather than spending all your waking hours at a keyboard trotting out ill-informed opinions based on zero experience you would work this one out. Why don't you just accept that this is because of Brexit (which it is) instead of accepting the government propaganda ( basically anti-French xenophobia) and say, "Oh well, all these people are inconvenienced, but fuck them I got Brexit which I think it is worth it" . You are either completely stupid or more dishonest than Boris Johnson and Lightweight Lizzy put together.
    You are the dense one. They have had six years to prepare to staff their border. If it takes longer to stamp passports, did you only just figure that out today? Or was that foreseeable? If it was foreseeable, why weren't extra staff hired and in place already?

    Yes people are inconvenienced by changes. Tough fucking shit, get over it already! Hire however many staff are needed for today's circumstances don't keep whining and crying that if only we had voted differently in an election six years ago that fewer would be needed.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 46,643
    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    2015 - Because Brexit?
    image

    2005 - Because Brexit?
    image

    1988 - Because Brexit?
    image

    East Kent resident here who grew up in Canterbury, now lives a couple of miles from J10 M20. Brexit has turned these problems from something that happened one or twice a year (strikes in France, problems at sea, fires in the tunnel). to once or twice a month. I’m looking forward to the upsides of Brexit because it’s caused nothing but shite down here, Even the “French didn’t put up enough officers” doesn’t cut it - they have to do twice the checks. The traffic flow four officers could put through now needs eight. The whole thing is a British caused issue, no one else.

    BTW the 1988 photo - the M20 hadn’t even been completed in 1988. Junction 8 for Maidstone to junction 9 for Ashford opened in 1991 and at the same time the extension to Dover, as part of the A20, was also constructed and opened in 1993 and a new junction, 11A was also built for the Channel Tunnel, which also wasn’t open in 1988. I don’t know where your photo is from, the A2 maybe, but it isn’t comparable with the current situation at all.
    If it takes eight staff to do the checks then hire 8 staff. Hire nine if need be.

    Being in a political union for the sake of four border staff is beyond preposterous on the face of it.

    There may be good reasons for Remain, or Leave, or Rejoin but that you need eight staff instead of four at the international border isn't one of them.
    Straw man. Wasn’t the point of my post and you know it, it was to point out that your photos were disingenuous bollocks designed to deliberately mislead from the fact that a political movement you espouse has caused huge problems. The need for the increased border staff is “because Brexit”. It’s our bed, you made it, now we’re lying in it. Thanks. Thanks a lot.
    They're not disingenuous bollocks, the point is that the border has had backlogs for decades whenever the French are short staffed at the border. Bugger all to do with Brexit.

    If it takes 4 staff and they only have 2, or it takes 8 staff and they only have 4, is neither here nor there. Staffing levels should be at whatever is needed, if they're not then that has sod all to do with Brexit.
    It is utterly disingenuous. Did you read my post? The idea that the “border had had backlogs for decades” is disingenuous shite. It is in fact misleading, a lie even. Yes, there were occasional delays as I concede, but they are now essentially permanent. That is disingenuous. You grew up in Australia and live in Warrington., I am English, grew up in Kent, use and have used the M20 every week for years. My brother did a course in Calais that he commuted to from Canterbury. He couldn’t do that now. Yes, Brexit has made it worse.

    Why should the French pay for increased staffing levels needed by Brexit? Previously the French taxpayer had to fund roughly half as many border officers for our convenience. You are making them fund twice as many. Are you prepared for the U.K. govt to pay the French for more border officers? Why should they pay for Brexit?
    Why should they pay to police their border? Because it's their border.

    They can make decisions that affect us, that's fine, we have to adjust.

    People adjust in life to changing circumstances. Sticking with the status quo because if you don't a third party may need four more staff in six years time is preposterous. If they need staff - hire them.
    What’s this “we” bollocks? You don’t have to adjust. You don’t live here. Unfortunately Kent can’t adjust. We are 200 miles from Warrington but only 20 from France. You (and TBF most of this county’s voters) put us, not you, in this position.

    How’s the tunnel to Australia coming along? Can you get me a ticket there as cheap as a trip to France?
    I have friends who live in Kent near Canterbury (who are ardent Remainers) and believe you me would be the first to report such issues if they experienced them.

    They haven't reported anything of the sort.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 103,509
    edited July 24
    Nigelb said:

    Viktor Orbán sparks outrage with attack on ‘race mixing’ in Europe
    Hungary’s far-right prime minister says countries where races mingle are ‘no longer nations’
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jul/24/viktor-orban-against-race-mixing-europe-hungary

    Soz Viktor for all the race mingling and mixed race children I'm responsible for.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 46,643

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    2015 - Because Brexit?
    image

    2005 - Because Brexit?
    image

    1988 - Because Brexit?
    image

    East Kent resident here who grew up in Canterbury, now lives a couple of miles from J10 M20. Brexit has turned these problems from something that happened one or twice a year (strikes in France, problems at sea, fires in the tunnel). to once or twice a month. I’m looking forward to the upsides of Brexit because it’s caused nothing but shite down here, Even the “French didn’t put up enough officers” doesn’t cut it - they have to do twice the checks. The traffic flow four officers could put through now needs eight. The whole thing is a British caused issue, no one else.

    BTW the 1988 photo - the M20 hadn’t even been completed in 1988. Junction 8 for Maidstone to junction 9 for Ashford opened in 1991 and at the same time the extension to Dover, as part of the A20, was also constructed and opened in 1993 and a new junction, 11A was also built for the Channel Tunnel, which also wasn’t open in 1988. I don’t know where your photo is from, the A2 maybe, but it isn’t comparable with the current situation at all.
    If it takes eight staff to do the checks then hire 8 staff. Hire nine if need be.

    Being in a political union for the sake of four border staff is beyond preposterous on the face of it.

    There may be good reasons for Remain, or Leave, or Rejoin but that you need eight staff instead of four at the international border isn't one of them.
    Straw man. Wasn’t the point of my post and you know it, it was to point out that your photos were disingenuous bollocks designed to deliberately mislead from the fact that a political movement you espouse has caused huge problems. The need for the increased border staff is “because Brexit”. It’s our bed, you made it, now we’re lying in it. Thanks. Thanks a lot.
    They're not disingenuous bollocks, the point is that the border has had backlogs for decades whenever the French are short staffed at the border. Bugger all to do with Brexit.

    If it takes 4 staff and they only have 2, or it takes 8 staff and they only have 4, is neither here nor there. Staffing levels should be at whatever is needed, if they're not then that has sod all to do with Brexit.

    It's been six years since the vote. If 4 more staff were required and they haven't bothered to hire 4 people in six years that's not due to my or your vote.
    You moron, Brexit is the reason we need them in the first place!
    Bollocks the reason we need them in the first place is we aren't in Schengen!

    We always needed border staff as we aren't in Schengen. Whether you need slightly more or not is neither here nor there, you hire to meet the demand. If there's extra demand then hire more, that's not a reason to be in a political union.
    We only needed a token border post as we waived our passports. Now details are taken because of the 90 day rule, so it is Brexit.
    "Details" aren't taken. The passport is scanned and checked (it was always scanned in the past) and now it is stamped as well and the in/out date checked as well.

    That really is it.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 11,750

    I love the French, and their insouciance to us is probably my favourite thing about them

    Agreed (again blimey!). It is their insouciance to everyone who are not French that I find amusing. In any other country it would be obnoxious (eg Americans), but the French do it with such style.
  • DennisBetsDennisBets Posts: 244
    eek said:

    Sadiq has just alienated the entire Eastern flank by kissing Seb Coe's arse and bringing back the sceptre of White elephants and Paula Radcliffe on the tele everyday for a month. Not to mention the huge losses the current stadium makes, how is any Plan B not on the table?

    Do you have a link to an English translation of this?
    Tenth anniversary of the London Olympics some time this week, and talk of bidding to host another Games. At a guess.
    Yep we seem to be planning to for the 2036 Olympics https://www.skysports.com/amp/olympics/news/15234/12656875/london-working-on-bid-to-host-greenest-ever-olympics-and-paralympics-says-mayor-sadiq-khan
    Yep instead of cycling round the velodrome the bikes will be fixed to the grid and first person to power the whole of Luton wins
  • FishingFishing Posts: 3,706
    eek said:

    Sadiq has just alienated the entire Eastern flank by kissing Seb Coe's arse and bringing back the sceptre of White elephants and Paula Radcliffe on the tele everyday for a month. Not to mention the huge losses the current stadium makes, how is any Plan B not on the table?

    Do you have a link to an English translation of this?
    Tenth anniversary of the London Olympics some time this week, and talk of bidding to host another Games. At a guess.
    Yep we seem to be planning to for the 2036 Olympics https://www.skysports.com/amp/olympics/news/15234/12656875/london-working-on-bid-to-host-greenest-ever-olympics-and-paralympics-says-mayor-sadiq-khan
    Great.

    Yet more tens of billions pissed away on a few days of running and jumping.
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 3,508
    Omnium said:

    Omnium said:

    I’m growing crazy numbers of tomatoes in my sky garden

    Poor old 27 - she's done well in between 26 and 28. Keeping quiet, and no doubt entertaining far too many parties of the profligate 3s.
    If I tried to count them I expect I'd become a statistic myself. Harvesting them will likely be treacherous too - I can only reach about a third of the fruit, some of that while balancing one footed on top of a box that raises me eighteen inches

    I need to invest in a step ladder
    In the photo I think 27, but I was obviously just seeking the 'crazy number' you'd insulted. Tomato plants give an air to a greenhouse that I really like.
    There's loads more than twenty seven if you zoom in. It's like trying to count stars in the sky
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 8,236

    Omnium said:

    Omnium said:

    I’m growing crazy numbers of tomatoes in my sky garden

    Poor old 27 - she's done well in between 26 and 28. Keeping quiet, and no doubt entertaining far too many parties of the profligate 3s.
    If I tried to count them I expect I'd become a statistic myself. Harvesting them will likely be treacherous too - I can only reach about a third of the fruit, some of that while balancing one footed on top of a box that raises me eighteen inches

    I need to invest in a step ladder
    In the photo I think 27, but I was obviously just seeking the 'crazy number' you'd insulted. Tomato plants give an air to a greenhouse that I really like.
    There's loads more than twenty seven if you zoom in. It's like trying to count stars in the sky
    Picky doesn't suit you!

    I will say though that it's nothing like counting stars in the sky :) Fractal tomatoes - I think not.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 8,584
    edited July 24

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    2015 - Because Brexit?
    image

    2005 - Because Brexit?
    image

    1988 - Because Brexit?
    image

    East Kent resident here who grew up in Canterbury, now lives a couple of miles from J10 M20. Brexit has turned these problems from something that happened one or twice a year (strikes in France, problems at sea, fires in the tunnel). to once or twice a month. I’m looking forward to the upsides of Brexit because it’s caused nothing but shite down here, Even the “French didn’t put up enough officers” doesn’t cut it - they have to do twice the checks. The traffic flow four officers could put through now needs eight. The whole thing is a British caused issue, no one else.

    BTW the 1988 photo - the M20 hadn’t even been completed in 1988. Junction 8 for Maidstone to junction 9 for Ashford opened in 1991 and at the same time the extension to Dover, as part of the A20, was also constructed and opened in 1993 and a new junction, 11A was also built for the Channel Tunnel, which also wasn’t open in 1988. I don’t know where your photo is from, the A2 maybe, but it isn’t comparable with the current situation at all.
    If it takes eight staff to do the checks then hire 8 staff. Hire nine if need be.

    Being in a political union for the sake of four border staff is beyond preposterous on the face of it.

    There may be good reasons for Remain, or Leave, or Rejoin but that you need eight staff instead of four at the international border isn't one of them.
    Straw man. Wasn’t the point of my post and you know it, it was to point out that your photos were disingenuous bollocks designed to deliberately mislead from the fact that a political movement you espouse has caused huge problems. The need for the increased border staff is “because Brexit”. It’s our bed, you made it, now we’re lying in it. Thanks. Thanks a lot.
    They're not disingenuous bollocks, the point is that the border has had backlogs for decades whenever the French are short staffed at the border. Bugger all to do with Brexit.

    If it takes 4 staff and they only have 2, or it takes 8 staff and they only have 4, is neither here nor there. Staffing levels should be at whatever is needed, if they're not then that has sod all to do with Brexit.

    It's been six years since the vote. If 4 more staff were required and they haven't bothered to hire 4 people in six years that's not due to my or your vote.
    You moron, Brexit is the reason we need them in the first place!
    Bollocks the reason we need them in the first place is we aren't in Schengen!

    We always needed border staff as we aren't in Schengen. Whether you need slightly more or not is neither here nor there, you hire to meet the demand. If there's extra demand then hire more, that's not a reason to be in a political union.
    We only needed a token border post as we waived our passports. Now details are taken because of the 90 day rule, so it is Brexit.
    "Details" aren't taken. The passport is scanned and checked (it was always scanned in the past) and now it is stamped as well and the in/out date checked as well.

    That really is it.
    Exactly.

    Yes, some minor details have changed but details change all the time. People have to adapt to changing circumstances.

    It's been six years since the vote. If more staff are needed and they haven't been hired, that's the responsibility of those in charge of the border, not those who voted six years ago.

    Every time we vote at any election it will mean policies that inconvenience some people. Doesn't make democracy, or change, bad per se it just means people need to adapt.

    Anyone too sclerotic to have adapted to a new border arrangement six years after we voted to change it ... Thank goodness we aren't in a political union with them, eh?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 34,872
    Unpopular said:

    Scottish Government may withdraw funding from cricket:

    If it fails to meet its obligations, its annual funding from Scotland’s national sport agency could be withdrawn.

    Last year, Cricket Scotland received about £460,000 from Sportscotland. It’s understood, however, that the government agency is extremely concerned by the review’s findings and all options will now be on the table.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-11043695/amp/Cricket-Scotland-STRIPPED-public-funding-findings-institutional-racism.html

    Is the institutional racism also in the Scottish government because cricket is just too "English" for them?
    Weirdly (to me at least), I've encountered loads of Scottish fans of cricket over the years. They're not necessarily 'super fans' or anything, nor are they interested in Scottish teams but my anecdotal experience is that cricket is pretty widely enjoyed. Maybe I'm just moving in odd circles?
    C'mon, as we now know actual experience counts as nothing compared to what people 'feel' should be the truth, the further away from events the better in the latter case.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 11,750

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    2015 - Because Brexit?
    image

    2005 - Because Brexit?
    image

    1988 - Because Brexit?
    image

    East Kent resident here who grew up in Canterbury, now lives a couple of miles from J10 M20. Brexit has turned these problems from something that happened one or twice a year (strikes in France, problems at sea, fires in the tunnel). to once or twice a month. I’m looking forward to the upsides of Brexit because it’s caused nothing but shite down here, Even the “French didn’t put up enough officers” doesn’t cut it - they have to do twice the checks. The traffic flow four officers could put through now needs eight. The whole thing is a British caused issue, no one else.

    BTW the 1988 photo - the M20 hadn’t even been completed in 1988. Junction 8 for Maidstone to junction 9 for Ashford opened in 1991 and at the same time the extension to Dover, as part of the A20, was also constructed and opened in 1993 and a new junction, 11A was also built for the Channel Tunnel, which also wasn’t open in 1988. I don’t know where your photo is from, the A2 maybe, but it isn’t comparable with the current situation at all.
    If it takes eight staff to do the checks then hire 8 staff. Hire nine if need be.

    Being in a political union for the sake of four border staff is beyond preposterous on the face of it.

    There may be good reasons for Remain, or Leave, or Rejoin but that you need eight staff instead of four at the international border isn't one of them.
    Straw man. Wasn’t the point of my post and you know it, it was to point out that your photos were disingenuous bollocks designed to deliberately mislead from the fact that a political movement you espouse has caused huge problems. The need for the increased border staff is “because Brexit”. It’s our bed, you made it, now we’re lying in it. Thanks. Thanks a lot.
    They're not disingenuous bollocks, the point is that the border has had backlogs for decades whenever the French are short staffed at the border. Bugger all to do with Brexit.

    If it takes 4 staff and they only have 2, or it takes 8 staff and they only have 4, is neither here nor there. Staffing levels should be at whatever is needed, if they're not then that has sod all to do with Brexit.

    It's been six years since the vote. If 4 more staff were required and they haven't bothered to hire 4 people in six years that's not due to my or your vote.
    You moron, Brexit is the reason we need them in the first place!
    Bollocks the reason we need them in the first place is we aren't in Schengen!

    We always needed border staff as we aren't in Schengen. Whether you need slightly more or not is neither here nor there, you hire to meet the demand. If there's extra demand then hire more, that's not a reason to be in a political union.
    You are so dense I am going to start calling you Malcolm. The reason for the delay, Malc, is that the passports now have to be stamped and they didn't before. If you travelled a bit more, or did a job, rather than spending all your waking hours at a keyboard trotting out ill-informed opinions based on zero experience you would work this one out. Why don't you just accept that this is because of Brexit (which it is) instead of accepting the government propaganda ( basically anti-French xenophobia) and say, "Oh well, all these people are inconvenienced, but fuck them I got Brexit which I think it is worth it" . You are either completely stupid or more dishonest than Boris Johnson and Lightweight Lizzy put together.
    You are the dense one. They have had six years to prepare to staff their border. If it takes longer to stamp passports, did you only just figure that out today? Or was that foreseeable? If it was foreseeable, why weren't extra staff hired and in place already?

    Yes people are inconvenienced by changes. Tough fucking shit, get over it already! Hire however many staff are needed for today's circumstances don't keep whining and crying that if only we had voted differently in an election six years ago that fewer would be needed.
    Once again, I will point out to you that I doubt many people who read our respective posts might draw the conclusion that I am less intelligent than you.

    Your last paragraph sums you up though. Rather like your repulsive post where you said that even if you had Covid you would go out without a mask and didn't care if you infected people, you just prove once again you are no more than a very selfish opinionated little turd who does not care about your fellow human beings. You claim to be a nationalist. Well the one redeeming feature of nationalists is that they normally claim to love their fellow countrymen. You just proved you don't give a shit about families stuck in their cars for hours. What an small minded, unpleasant as well as ill-informed little arse you are.

    Go and do something useful and learn a little more about life and other human beings.
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 3,508

    I love the French, and their insouciance to us is probably my favourite thing about them

    Agreed (again blimey!). It is their insouciance to everyone who are not French that I find amusing. In any other country it would be obnoxious (eg Americans), but the French do it with such style.
    I also love the way they tend to speak English with impeccable grammar, but they never bother trying an English accent
  • DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    2015 - Because Brexit?
    image

    2005 - Because Brexit?
    image

    1988 - Because Brexit?
    image

    East Kent resident here who grew up in Canterbury, now lives a couple of miles from J10 M20. Brexit has turned these problems from something that happened one or twice a year (strikes in France, problems at sea, fires in the tunnel). to once or twice a month. I’m looking forward to the upsides of Brexit because it’s caused nothing but shite down here, Even the “French didn’t put up enough officers” doesn’t cut it - they have to do twice the checks. The traffic flow four officers could put through now needs eight. The whole thing is a British caused issue, no one else.

    BTW the 1988 photo - the M20 hadn’t even been completed in 1988. Junction 8 for Maidstone to junction 9 for Ashford opened in 1991 and at the same time the extension to Dover, as part of the A20, was also constructed and opened in 1993 and a new junction, 11A was also built for the Channel Tunnel, which also wasn’t open in 1988. I don’t know where your photo is from, the A2 maybe, but it isn’t comparable with the current situation at all.
    If it takes eight staff to do the checks then hire 8 staff. Hire nine if need be.

    Being in a political union for the sake of four border staff is beyond preposterous on the face of it.

    There may be good reasons for Remain, or Leave, or Rejoin but that you need eight staff instead of four at the international border isn't one of them.
    Straw man. Wasn’t the point of my post and you know it, it was to point out that your photos were disingenuous bollocks designed to deliberately mislead from the fact that a political movement you espouse has caused huge problems. The need for the increased border staff is “because Brexit”. It’s our bed, you made it, now we’re lying in it. Thanks. Thanks a lot.
    They're not disingenuous bollocks, the point is that the border has had backlogs for decades whenever the French are short staffed at the border. Bugger all to do with Brexit.

    If it takes 4 staff and they only have 2, or it takes 8 staff and they only have 4, is neither here nor there. Staffing levels should be at whatever is needed, if they're not then that has sod all to do with Brexit.

    It's been six years since the vote. If 4 more staff were required and they haven't bothered to hire 4 people in six years that's not due to my or your vote.
    You moron, Brexit is the reason we need them in the first place!
    Bollocks the reason we need them in the first place is we aren't in Schengen!

    We always needed border staff as we aren't in Schengen. Whether you need slightly more or not is neither here nor there, you hire to meet the demand. If there's extra demand then hire more, that's not a reason to be in a political union.
    You are so dense I am going to start calling you Malcolm. The reason for the delay, Malc, is that the passports now have to be stamped and they didn't before. If you travelled a bit more, or did a job, rather than spending all your waking hours at a keyboard trotting out ill-informed opinions based on zero experience you would work this one out. Why don't you just accept that this is because of Brexit (which it is) instead of accepting the government propaganda ( basically anti-French xenophobia) and say, "Oh well, all these people are inconvenienced, but fuck them I got Brexit which I think it is worth it" . You are either completely stupid or more dishonest than Boris Johnson and Lightweight Lizzy put together.
    You are the dense one. They have had six years to prepare to staff their border. If it takes longer to stamp passports, did you only just figure that out today? Or was that foreseeable? If it was foreseeable, why weren't extra staff hired and in place already?

    Yes people are inconvenienced by changes. Tough fucking shit, get over it already! Hire however many staff are needed for today's circumstances don't keep whining and crying that if only we had voted differently in an election six years ago that fewer would be needed.
    Once again, I will point out to you that I doubt many people who read our respective posts might draw the conclusion that I am less intelligent than you.

    Your last paragraph sums you up though. Rather like your repulsive post where you said that even if you had Covid you would go out without a mask and didn't care if you infected people, you just prove once again you are no more than a very selfish opinionated little turd who does not care about your fellow human beings. You claim to be a nationalist. Well the one redeeming feature of nationalists is that they normally claim to love their fellow countrymen. You just proved you don't give a shit about families stuck in their cars for hours. What an small minded, unpleasant as well as ill-informed little arse you are.

    Go and do something useful and learn a little more about life and other human beings.
    Oh piss off you pretentious bore.

    If people are stuck in queues because the French border force are short staffed then they're stuck because the French border force are short staffed. Not because of how I voted six years ago.

    Six years is more than enough time to adapt. If they've failed to do so, that's their responsibility, not mine.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 26,618

    I love the French, and their insouciance to us is probably my favourite thing about them

    Agreed (again blimey!). It is their insouciance to everyone who are not French that I find amusing. In any other country it would be obnoxious (eg Americans), but the French do it with such style.
    I often find French men wearyingly effeminate
  • LeonLeon Posts: 26,618
    This is presumably meant to be reassuring

    It actually sounds like Biden is on his deathbed

    "President Joe Biden is improving from his Covid infection, with encouraging signs that he is overcoming the virus, his official doctor said"

    https://twitter.com/BloombergUK/status/1551267185393340417?s=20&t=pYnlwA7OR_qaPNRquC4InQ
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 8,236
    Leon said:

    I love the French, and their insouciance to us is probably my favourite thing about them

    Agreed (again blimey!). It is their insouciance to everyone who are not French that I find amusing. In any other country it would be obnoxious (eg Americans), but the French do it with such style.
    I often find French men wearyingly effeminate
    I find them annoyingly efficient at securing the attentions of the hot girl I had in mind.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 2,038

    I love the French, and their insouciance to us is probably my favourite thing about them

    Agreed (again blimey!). It is their insouciance to everyone who are not French that I find amusing. In any other country it would be obnoxious (eg Americans), but the French do it with such style.
    Never forget to say bonjour and always try and speak a few extra words in French . I’ve lived in France and found the vast majority of the French to be charming . Paris just like any big city can be more hit and miss but the Parisians also irritate other French people !
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 11,750

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    2015 - Because Brexit?
    image

    2005 - Because Brexit?
    image

    1988 - Because Brexit?
    image

    East Kent resident here who grew up in Canterbury, now lives a couple of miles from J10 M20. Brexit has turned these problems from something that happened one or twice a year (strikes in France, problems at sea, fires in the tunnel). to once or twice a month. I’m looking forward to the upsides of Brexit because it’s caused nothing but shite down here, Even the “French didn’t put up enough officers” doesn’t cut it - they have to do twice the checks. The traffic flow four officers could put through now needs eight. The whole thing is a British caused issue, no one else.

    BTW the 1988 photo - the M20 hadn’t even been completed in 1988. Junction 8 for Maidstone to junction 9 for Ashford opened in 1991 and at the same time the extension to Dover, as part of the A20, was also constructed and opened in 1993 and a new junction, 11A was also built for the Channel Tunnel, which also wasn’t open in 1988. I don’t know where your photo is from, the A2 maybe, but it isn’t comparable with the current situation at all.
    If it takes eight staff to do the checks then hire 8 staff. Hire nine if need be.

    Being in a political union for the sake of four border staff is beyond preposterous on the face of it.

    There may be good reasons for Remain, or Leave, or Rejoin but that you need eight staff instead of four at the international border isn't one of them.
    Straw man. Wasn’t the point of my post and you know it, it was to point out that your photos were disingenuous bollocks designed to deliberately mislead from the fact that a political movement you espouse has caused huge problems. The need for the increased border staff is “because Brexit”. It’s our bed, you made it, now we’re lying in it. Thanks. Thanks a lot.
    They're not disingenuous bollocks, the point is that the border has had backlogs for decades whenever the French are short staffed at the border. Bugger all to do with Brexit.

    If it takes 4 staff and they only have 2, or it takes 8 staff and they only have 4, is neither here nor there. Staffing levels should be at whatever is needed, if they're not then that has sod all to do with Brexit.

    It's been six years since the vote. If 4 more staff were required and they haven't bothered to hire 4 people in six years that's not due to my or your vote.
    You moron, Brexit is the reason we need them in the first place!
    Bollocks the reason we need them in the first place is we aren't in Schengen!

    We always needed border staff as we aren't in Schengen. Whether you need slightly more or not is neither here nor there, you hire to meet the demand. If there's extra demand then hire more, that's not a reason to be in a political union.
    We only needed a token border post as we waived our passports. Now details are taken because of the 90 day rule, so it is Brexit.
    "Details" aren't taken. The passport is scanned and checked (it was always scanned in the past) and now it is stamped as well and the in/out date checked as well.

    That really is it.
    No, it wasn't *always* scanned at all. That is completely incorrect. I have been through the tunnel on numerous occasions prior to Brexit when it has been busy and I have just been waved through. Having to stamp and inspect all passports was not necessary going from UK to France prior to Brexit. Anyone with any knowledge of process will realise this makes a massive difference. This is the route of the problem. Brexit apologists need to stop arguing this, they are completely wrong. Fuck business, fuck travellers; this is the reality of Brexit, but hey, look at all the benefits eh?
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,489

    Omnium said:

    Omnium said:

    I’m growing crazy numbers of tomatoes in my sky garden

    Poor old 27 - she's done well in between 26 and 28. Keeping quiet, and no doubt entertaining far too many parties of the profligate 3s.
    If I tried to count them I expect I'd become a statistic myself. Harvesting them will likely be treacherous too - I can only reach about a third of the fruit, some of that while balancing one footed on top of a box that raises me eighteen inches

    I need to invest in a step ladder
    In the photo I think 27, but I was obviously just seeking the 'crazy number' you'd insulted. Tomato plants give an air to a greenhouse that I really like.
    There's loads more than twenty seven if you zoom in. It's like trying to count stars in the sky
    Point your camera at just one small patch and leave it on overnight and you will capture hundreds of tomato galaxies in a deep tomato field.

    Probably.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 26,618
    Omnium said:

    Leon said:

    I love the French, and their insouciance to us is probably my favourite thing about them

    Agreed (again blimey!). It is their insouciance to everyone who are not French that I find amusing. In any other country it would be obnoxious (eg Americans), but the French do it with such style.
    I often find French men wearyingly effeminate
    I find them annoyingly efficient at securing the attentions of the hot girl I had in mind.
    Sir, I have never lost a woman to a Frenchman

    I would not be here if I had. I would have hurled myself from St John's Gate, for shame
  • DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    2015 - Because Brexit?
    image

    2005 - Because Brexit?
    image

    1988 - Because Brexit?
    image

    East Kent resident here who grew up in Canterbury, now lives a couple of miles from J10 M20. Brexit has turned these problems from something that happened one or twice a year (strikes in France, problems at sea, fires in the tunnel). to once or twice a month. I’m looking forward to the upsides of Brexit because it’s caused nothing but shite down here, Even the “French didn’t put up enough officers” doesn’t cut it - they have to do twice the checks. The traffic flow four officers could put through now needs eight. The whole thing is a British caused issue, no one else.

    BTW the 1988 photo - the M20 hadn’t even been completed in 1988. Junction 8 for Maidstone to junction 9 for Ashford opened in 1991 and at the same time the extension to Dover, as part of the A20, was also constructed and opened in 1993 and a new junction, 11A was also built for the Channel Tunnel, which also wasn’t open in 1988. I don’t know where your photo is from, the A2 maybe, but it isn’t comparable with the current situation at all.
    If it takes eight staff to do the checks then hire 8 staff. Hire nine if need be.

    Being in a political union for the sake of four border staff is beyond preposterous on the face of it.

    There may be good reasons for Remain, or Leave, or Rejoin but that you need eight staff instead of four at the international border isn't one of them.
    Straw man. Wasn’t the point of my post and you know it, it was to point out that your photos were disingenuous bollocks designed to deliberately mislead from the fact that a political movement you espouse has caused huge problems. The need for the increased border staff is “because Brexit”. It’s our bed, you made it, now we’re lying in it. Thanks. Thanks a lot.
    They're not disingenuous bollocks, the point is that the border has had backlogs for decades whenever the French are short staffed at the border. Bugger all to do with Brexit.

    If it takes 4 staff and they only have 2, or it takes 8 staff and they only have 4, is neither here nor there. Staffing levels should be at whatever is needed, if they're not then that has sod all to do with Brexit.

    It's been six years since the vote. If 4 more staff were required and they haven't bothered to hire 4 people in six years that's not due to my or your vote.
    You moron, Brexit is the reason we need them in the first place!
    Bollocks the reason we need them in the first place is we aren't in Schengen!

    We always needed border staff as we aren't in Schengen. Whether you need slightly more or not is neither here nor there, you hire to meet the demand. If there's extra demand then hire more, that's not a reason to be in a political union.
    We only needed a token border post as we waived our passports. Now details are taken because of the 90 day rule, so it is Brexit.
    "Details" aren't taken. The passport is scanned and checked (it was always scanned in the past) and now it is stamped as well and the in/out date checked as well.

    That really is it.
    No, it wasn't *always* scanned at all. That is completely incorrect. I have been through the tunnel on numerous occasions prior to Brexit when it has been busy and I have just been waved through. Having to stamp and inspect all passports was not necessary going from UK to France prior to Brexit. Anyone with any knowledge of process will realise this makes a massive difference. This is the route of the problem. Brexit apologists need to stop arguing this, they are completely wrong. Fuck business, fuck travellers; this is the reality of Brexit, but hey, look at all the benefits eh?
    Was it news to you that checks would need to be done? Checks are done at international borders all over the world.

    If checks are needed, hire however many staff are required to do the checks.

    That's not a reason to be in a political union.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 11,750

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    2015 - Because Brexit?
    image

    2005 - Because Brexit?
    image

    1988 - Because Brexit?
    image

    East Kent resident here who grew up in Canterbury, now lives a couple of miles from J10 M20. Brexit has turned these problems from something that happened one or twice a year (strikes in France, problems at sea, fires in the tunnel). to once or twice a month. I’m looking forward to the upsides of Brexit because it’s caused nothing but shite down here, Even the “French didn’t put up enough officers” doesn’t cut it - they have to do twice the checks. The traffic flow four officers could put through now needs eight. The whole thing is a British caused issue, no one else.

    BTW the 1988 photo - the M20 hadn’t even been completed in 1988. Junction 8 for Maidstone to junction 9 for Ashford opened in 1991 and at the same time the extension to Dover, as part of the A20, was also constructed and opened in 1993 and a new junction, 11A was also built for the Channel Tunnel, which also wasn’t open in 1988. I don’t know where your photo is from, the A2 maybe, but it isn’t comparable with the current situation at all.
    If it takes eight staff to do the checks then hire 8 staff. Hire nine if need be.

    Being in a political union for the sake of four border staff is beyond preposterous on the face of it.

    There may be good reasons for Remain, or Leave, or Rejoin but that you need eight staff instead of four at the international border isn't one of them.
    Straw man. Wasn’t the point of my post and you know it, it was to point out that your photos were disingenuous bollocks designed to deliberately mislead from the fact that a political movement you espouse has caused huge problems. The need for the increased border staff is “because Brexit”. It’s our bed, you made it, now we’re lying in it. Thanks. Thanks a lot.
    They're not disingenuous bollocks, the point is that the border has had backlogs for decades whenever the French are short staffed at the border. Bugger all to do with Brexit.

    If it takes 4 staff and they only have 2, or it takes 8 staff and they only have 4, is neither here nor there. Staffing levels should be at whatever is needed, if they're not then that has sod all to do with Brexit.

    It's been six years since the vote. If 4 more staff were required and they haven't bothered to hire 4 people in six years that's not due to my or your vote.
    You moron, Brexit is the reason we need them in the first place!
    Bollocks the reason we need them in the first place is we aren't in Schengen!

    We always needed border staff as we aren't in Schengen. Whether you need slightly more or not is neither here nor there, you hire to meet the demand. If there's extra demand then hire more, that's not a reason to be in a political union.
    You are so dense I am going to start calling you Malcolm. The reason for the delay, Malc, is that the passports now have to be stamped and they didn't before. If you travelled a bit more, or did a job, rather than spending all your waking hours at a keyboard trotting out ill-informed opinions based on zero experience you would work this one out. Why don't you just accept that this is because of Brexit (which it is) instead of accepting the government propaganda ( basically anti-French xenophobia) and say, "Oh well, all these people are inconvenienced, but fuck them I got Brexit which I think it is worth it" . You are either completely stupid or more dishonest than Boris Johnson and Lightweight Lizzy put together.
    You are the dense one. They have had six years to prepare to staff their border. If it takes longer to stamp passports, did you only just figure that out today? Or was that foreseeable? If it was foreseeable, why weren't extra staff hired and in place already?

    Yes people are inconvenienced by changes. Tough fucking shit, get over it already! Hire however many staff are needed for today's circumstances don't keep whining and crying that if only we had voted differently in an election six years ago that fewer would be needed.
    Once again, I will point out to you that I doubt many people who read our respective posts might draw the conclusion that I am less intelligent than you.

    Your last paragraph sums you up though. Rather like your repulsive post where you said that even if you had Covid you would go out without a mask and didn't care if you infected people, you just prove once again you are no more than a very selfish opinionated little turd who does not care about your fellow human beings. You claim to be a nationalist. Well the one redeeming feature of nationalists is that they normally claim to love their fellow countrymen. You just proved you don't give a shit about families stuck in their cars for hours. What an small minded, unpleasant as well as ill-informed little arse you are.

    Go and do something useful and learn a little more about life and other human beings.
    Oh piss off you pretentious bore.

    If people are stuck in queues because the French border force are short staffed then they're stuck because the French border force are short staffed. Not because of how I voted six years ago.

    Six years is more than enough time to adapt. If they've failed to do so, that's their responsibility, not mine.
    Lol. I'll accept pretentious perhaps, but again if the man on the Clapham omnibus had to compare us I think you might win out on the bore status by several country miles, Mr. uber-keyboard warrior! Always blame the furriner eh? The favourite redoubt of the intellectually challenged.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 103,034
    edited July 24
    Nigelb said:

    Viktor Orbán sparks outrage with attack on ‘race mixing’ in Europe
    Hungary’s far-right prime minister says countries where races mingle are ‘no longer nations’
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jul/24/viktor-orban-against-race-mixing-europe-hungary

    How many BME people want to emigrate to Hungary anyway? It is poorer than western Europe, the US, Australia and Canada and New Zealand, Singapore, Dubai etc and has no great global city and the weather is not that great either.

    Plus a white nationalist government actively hostile to them
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 3,508

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    2015 - Because Brexit?
    image

    2005 - Because Brexit?
    image

    1988 - Because Brexit?
    image

    East Kent resident here who grew up in Canterbury, now lives a couple of miles from J10 M20. Brexit has turned these problems from something that happened one or twice a year (strikes in France, problems at sea, fires in the tunnel). to once or twice a month. I’m looking forward to the upsides of Brexit because it’s caused nothing but shite down here, Even the “French didn’t put up enough officers” doesn’t cut it - they have to do twice the checks. The traffic flow four officers could put through now needs eight. The whole thing is a British caused issue, no one else.

    BTW the 1988 photo - the M20 hadn’t even been completed in 1988. Junction 8 for Maidstone to junction 9 for Ashford opened in 1991 and at the same time the extension to Dover, as part of the A20, was also constructed and opened in 1993 and a new junction, 11A was also built for the Channel Tunnel, which also wasn’t open in 1988. I don’t know where your photo is from, the A2 maybe, but it isn’t comparable with the current situation at all.
    If it takes eight staff to do the checks then hire 8 staff. Hire nine if need be.

    Being in a political union for the sake of four border staff is beyond preposterous on the face of it.

    There may be good reasons for Remain, or Leave, or Rejoin but that you need eight staff instead of four at the international border isn't one of them.
    Straw man. Wasn’t the point of my post and you know it, it was to point out that your photos were disingenuous bollocks designed to deliberately mislead from the fact that a political movement you espouse has caused huge problems. The need for the increased border staff is “because Brexit”. It’s our bed, you made it, now we’re lying in it. Thanks. Thanks a lot.
    They're not disingenuous bollocks, the point is that the border has had backlogs for decades whenever the French are short staffed at the border. Bugger all to do with Brexit.

    If it takes 4 staff and they only have 2, or it takes 8 staff and they only have 4, is neither here nor there. Staffing levels should be at whatever is needed, if they're not then that has sod all to do with Brexit.

    It's been six years since the vote. If 4 more staff were required and they haven't bothered to hire 4 people in six years that's not due to my or your vote.
    You moron, Brexit is the reason we need them in the first place!
    Bollocks the reason we need them in the first place is we aren't in Schengen!

    We always needed border staff as we aren't in Schengen. Whether you need slightly more or not is neither here nor there, you hire to meet the demand. If there's extra demand then hire more, that's not a reason to be in a political union.
    You are so dense I am going to start calling you Malcolm. The reason for the delay, Malc, is that the passports now have to be stamped and they didn't before. If you travelled a bit more, or did a job, rather than spending all your waking hours at a keyboard trotting out ill-informed opinions based on zero experience you would work this one out. Why don't you just accept that this is because of Brexit (which it is) instead of accepting the government propaganda ( basically anti-French xenophobia) and say, "Oh well, all these people are inconvenienced, but fuck them I got Brexit which I think it is worth it" . You are either completely stupid or more dishonest than Boris Johnson and Lightweight Lizzy put together.
    You are the dense one. They have had six years to prepare to staff their border. If it takes longer to stamp passports, did you only just figure that out today? Or was that foreseeable? If it was foreseeable, why weren't extra staff hired and in place already?

    Yes people are inconvenienced by changes. Tough fucking shit, get over it already! Hire however many staff are needed for today's circumstances don't keep whining and crying that if only we had voted differently in an election six years ago that fewer would be needed.
    Once again, I will point out to you that I doubt many people who read our respective posts might draw the conclusion that I am less intelligent than you.

    Your last paragraph sums you up though. Rather like your repulsive post where you said that even if you had Covid you would go out without a mask and didn't care if you infected people, you just prove once again you are no more than a very selfish opinionated little turd who does not care about your fellow human beings. You claim to be a nationalist. Well the one redeeming feature of nationalists is that they normally claim to love their fellow countrymen. You just proved you don't give a shit about families stuck in their cars for hours. What an small minded, unpleasant as well as ill-informed little arse you are.

    Go and do something useful and learn a little more about life and other human beings.
    @rcs1000 can we do a poll on one of @nigelfurderviertereich sorry @Nigel_Foremain 's desperate appeals for affirmation from the remain crowd?

    Is he actually considered more intelligent on PB than those he calls fucking morons?

    Having just shared likes I feel I can treat him like a Frenchman
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 46,643

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    2015 - Because Brexit?
    image

    2005 - Because Brexit?
    image

    1988 - Because Brexit?
    image

    East Kent resident here who grew up in Canterbury, now lives a couple of miles from J10 M20. Brexit has turned these problems from something that happened one or twice a year (strikes in France, problems at sea, fires in the tunnel). to once or twice a month. I’m looking forward to the upsides of Brexit because it’s caused nothing but shite down here, Even the “French didn’t put up enough officers” doesn’t cut it - they have to do twice the checks. The traffic flow four officers could put through now needs eight. The whole thing is a British caused issue, no one else.

    BTW the 1988 photo - the M20 hadn’t even been completed in 1988. Junction 8 for Maidstone to junction 9 for Ashford opened in 1991 and at the same time the extension to Dover, as part of the A20, was also constructed and opened in 1993 and a new junction, 11A was also built for the Channel Tunnel, which also wasn’t open in 1988. I don’t know where your photo is from, the A2 maybe, but it isn’t comparable with the current situation at all.
    If it takes eight staff to do the checks then hire 8 staff. Hire nine if need be.

    Being in a political union for the sake of four border staff is beyond preposterous on the face of it.

    There may be good reasons for Remain, or Leave, or Rejoin but that you need eight staff instead of four at the international border isn't one of them.
    Straw man. Wasn’t the point of my post and you know it, it was to point out that your photos were disingenuous bollocks designed to deliberately mislead from the fact that a political movement you espouse has caused huge problems. The need for the increased border staff is “because Brexit”. It’s our bed, you made it, now we’re lying in it. Thanks. Thanks a lot.
    They're not disingenuous bollocks, the point is that the border has had backlogs for decades whenever the French are short staffed at the border. Bugger all to do with Brexit.

    If it takes 4 staff and they only have 2, or it takes 8 staff and they only have 4, is neither here nor there. Staffing levels should be at whatever is needed, if they're not then that has sod all to do with Brexit.

    It's been six years since the vote. If 4 more staff were required and they haven't bothered to hire 4 people in six years that's not due to my or your vote.
    You moron, Brexit is the reason we need them in the first place!
    Bollocks the reason we need them in the first place is we aren't in Schengen!

    We always needed border staff as we aren't in Schengen. Whether you need slightly more or not is neither here nor there, you hire to meet the demand. If there's extra demand then hire more, that's not a reason to be in a political union.
    You are so dense I am going to start calling you Malcolm. The reason for the delay, Malc, is that the passports now have to be stamped and they didn't before. If you travelled a bit more, or did a job, rather than spending all your waking hours at a keyboard trotting out ill-informed opinions based on zero experience you would work this one out. Why don't you just accept that this is because of Brexit (which it is) instead of accepting the government propaganda ( basically anti-French xenophobia) and say, "Oh well, all these people are inconvenienced, but fuck them I got Brexit which I think it is worth it" . You are either completely stupid or more dishonest than Boris Johnson and Lightweight Lizzy put together.
    You are the dense one. They have had six years to prepare to staff their border. If it takes longer to stamp passports, did you only just figure that out today? Or was that foreseeable? If it was foreseeable, why weren't extra staff hired and in place already?

    Yes people are inconvenienced by changes. Tough fucking shit, get over it already! Hire however many staff are needed for today's circumstances don't keep whining and crying that if only we had voted differently in an election six years ago that fewer would be needed.
    Once again, I will point out to you that I doubt many people who read our respective posts might draw the conclusion that I am less intelligent than you.

    Your last paragraph sums you up though. Rather like your repulsive post where you said that even if you had Covid you would go out without a mask and didn't care if you infected people, you just prove once again you are no more than a very selfish opinionated little turd who does not care about your fellow human beings. You claim to be a nationalist. Well the one redeeming feature of nationalists is that they normally claim to love their fellow countrymen. You just proved you don't give a shit about families stuck in their cars for hours. What an small minded, unpleasant as well as ill-informed little arse you are.

    Go and do something useful and learn a little more about life and other human beings.
    Do you have to be so rude to @BartholomewRoberts ?

    Yes, you might not agree with him - but that really isn't necessary.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 8,236
    Leon said:

    Omnium said:

    Leon said:

    I love the French, and their insouciance to us is probably my favourite thing about them

    Agreed (again blimey!). It is their insouciance to everyone who are not French that I find amusing. In any other country it would be obnoxious (eg Americans), but the French do it with such style.
    I often find French men wearyingly effeminate
    I find them annoyingly efficient at securing the attentions of the hot girl I had in mind.
    Sir, I have never lost a woman to a Frenchman

    I would not be here if I had. I would have hurled myself from St John's Gate, for shame
    Well yes. There was a long-standing engagement-of-marriage by way of formidable defences, and the needed alcohol found me not at my best at the key moments. I have only to throw myself on the good fellowship of my fellow Englishmen.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 46,643

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    2015 - Because Brexit?
    image

    2005 - Because Brexit?
    image

    1988 - Because Brexit?
    image

    East Kent resident here who grew up in Canterbury, now lives a couple of miles from J10 M20. Brexit has turned these problems from something that happened one or twice a year (strikes in France, problems at sea, fires in the tunnel). to once or twice a month. I’m looking forward to the upsides of Brexit because it’s caused nothing but shite down here, Even the “French didn’t put up enough officers” doesn’t cut it - they have to do twice the checks. The traffic flow four officers could put through now needs eight. The whole thing is a British caused issue, no one else.

    BTW the 1988 photo - the M20 hadn’t even been completed in 1988. Junction 8 for Maidstone to junction 9 for Ashford opened in 1991 and at the same time the extension to Dover, as part of the A20, was also constructed and opened in 1993 and a new junction, 11A was also built for the Channel Tunnel, which also wasn’t open in 1988. I don’t know where your photo is from, the A2 maybe, but it isn’t comparable with the current situation at all.
    If it takes eight staff to do the checks then hire 8 staff. Hire nine if need be.

    Being in a political union for the sake of four border staff is beyond preposterous on the face of it.

    There may be good reasons for Remain, or Leave, or Rejoin but that you need eight staff instead of four at the international border isn't one of them.
    Straw man. Wasn’t the point of my post and you know it, it was to point out that your photos were disingenuous bollocks designed to deliberately mislead from the fact that a political movement you espouse has caused huge problems. The need for the increased border staff is “because Brexit”. It’s our bed, you made it, now we’re lying in it. Thanks. Thanks a lot.
    They're not disingenuous bollocks, the point is that the border has had backlogs for decades whenever the French are short staffed at the border. Bugger all to do with Brexit.

    If it takes 4 staff and they only have 2, or it takes 8 staff and they only have 4, is neither here nor there. Staffing levels should be at whatever is needed, if they're not then that has sod all to do with Brexit.

    It's been six years since the vote. If 4 more staff were required and they haven't bothered to hire 4 people in six years that's not due to my or your vote.
    You moron, Brexit is the reason we need them in the first place!
    Bollocks the reason we need them in the first place is we aren't in Schengen!

    We always needed border staff as we aren't in Schengen. Whether you need slightly more or not is neither here nor there, you hire to meet the demand. If there's extra demand then hire more, that's not a reason to be in a political union.
    You are so dense I am going to start calling you Malcolm. The reason for the delay, Malc, is that the passports now have to be stamped and they didn't before. If you travelled a bit more, or did a job, rather than spending all your waking hours at a keyboard trotting out ill-informed opinions based on zero experience you would work this one out. Why don't you just accept that this is because of Brexit (which it is) instead of accepting the government propaganda ( basically anti-French xenophobia) and say, "Oh well, all these people are inconvenienced, but fuck them I got Brexit which I think it is worth it" . You are either completely stupid or more dishonest than Boris Johnson and Lightweight Lizzy put together.
    You are the dense one. They have had six years to prepare to staff their border. If it takes longer to stamp passports, did you only just figure that out today? Or was that foreseeable? If it was foreseeable, why weren't extra staff hired and in place already?

    Yes people are inconvenienced by changes. Tough fucking shit, get over it already! Hire however many staff are needed for today's circumstances don't keep whining and crying that if only we had voted differently in an election six years ago that fewer would be needed.
    Once again, I will point out to you that I doubt many people who read our respective posts might draw the conclusion that I am less intelligent than you.

    Your last paragraph sums you up though. Rather like your repulsive post where you said that even if you had Covid you would go out without a mask and didn't care if you infected people, you just prove once again you are no more than a very selfish opinionated little turd who does not care about your fellow human beings. You claim to be a nationalist. Well the one redeeming feature of nationalists is that they normally claim to love their fellow countrymen. You just proved you don't give a shit about families stuck in their cars for hours. What an small minded, unpleasant as well as ill-informed little arse you are.

    Go and do something useful and learn a little more about life and other human beings.
    Oh piss off you pretentious bore.

    If people are stuck in queues because the French border force are short staffed then they're stuck because the French border force are short staffed. Not because of how I voted six years ago.

    Six years is more than enough time to adapt. If they've failed to do so, that's their responsibility, not mine.
    Lol. I'll accept pretentious perhaps, but again if the man on the Clapham omnibus had to compare us I think you might win out on the bore status by several country miles, Mr. uber-keyboard warrior! Always blame the furriner eh? The favourite redoubt of the intellectually challenged.
    I think the man on the Clapham omnibus would get off and wait for the next one if you were on it.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 11,750
    Leon said:

    I love the French, and their insouciance to us is probably my favourite thing about them

    Agreed (again blimey!). It is their insouciance to everyone who are not French that I find amusing. In any other country it would be obnoxious (eg Americans), but the French do it with such style.
    I often find French men wearyingly effeminate
    Funnily enough they think the same of us. Apparently, or so I have been told, when an Englishman speaks French they nearly always sound effeminate. It is characteristically reactionary of you of course, old chap, to use the word effeminate in the pejorative. Are you sure you are not repressing some urges?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 26,618

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    2015 - Because Brexit?
    image

    2005 - Because Brexit?
    image

    1988 - Because Brexit?
    image

    East Kent resident here who grew up in Canterbury, now lives a couple of miles from J10 M20. Brexit has turned these problems from something that happened one or twice a year (strikes in France, problems at sea, fires in the tunnel). to once or twice a month. I’m looking forward to the upsides of Brexit because it’s caused nothing but shite down here, Even the “French didn’t put up enough officers” doesn’t cut it - they have to do twice the checks. The traffic flow four officers could put through now needs eight. The whole thing is a British caused issue, no one else.

    BTW the 1988 photo - the M20 hadn’t even been completed in 1988. Junction 8 for Maidstone to junction 9 for Ashford opened in 1991 and at the same time the extension to Dover, as part of the A20, was also constructed and opened in 1993 and a new junction, 11A was also built for the Channel Tunnel, which also wasn’t open in 1988. I don’t know where your photo is from, the A2 maybe, but it isn’t comparable with the current situation at all.
    If it takes eight staff to do the checks then hire 8 staff. Hire nine if need be.

    Being in a political union for the sake of four border staff is beyond preposterous on the face of it.

    There may be good reasons for Remain, or Leave, or Rejoin but that you need eight staff instead of four at the international border isn't one of them.
    Straw man. Wasn’t the point of my post and you know it, it was to point out that your photos were disingenuous bollocks designed to deliberately mislead from the fact that a political movement you espouse has caused huge problems. The need for the increased border staff is “because Brexit”. It’s our bed, you made it, now we’re lying in it. Thanks. Thanks a lot.
    They're not disingenuous bollocks, the point is that the border has had backlogs for decades whenever the French are short staffed at the border. Bugger all to do with Brexit.

    If it takes 4 staff and they only have 2, or it takes 8 staff and they only have 4, is neither here nor there. Staffing levels should be at whatever is needed, if they're not then that has sod all to do with Brexit.

    It's been six years since the vote. If 4 more staff were required and they haven't bothered to hire 4 people in six years that's not due to my or your vote.
    You moron, Brexit is the reason we need them in the first place!
    Bollocks the reason we need them in the first place is we aren't in Schengen!

    We always needed border staff as we aren't in Schengen. Whether you need slightly more or not is neither here nor there, you hire to meet the demand. If there's extra demand then hire more, that's not a reason to be in a political union.
    You are so dense I am going to start calling you Malcolm. The reason for the delay, Malc, is that the passports now have to be stamped and they didn't before. If you travelled a bit more, or did a job, rather than spending all your waking hours at a keyboard trotting out ill-informed opinions based on zero experience you would work this one out. Why don't you just accept that this is because of Brexit (which it is) instead of accepting the government propaganda ( basically anti-French xenophobia) and say, "Oh well, all these people are inconvenienced, but fuck them I got Brexit which I think it is worth it" . You are either completely stupid or more dishonest than Boris Johnson and Lightweight Lizzy put together.
    You are the dense one. They have had six years to prepare to staff their border. If it takes longer to stamp passports, did you only just figure that out today? Or was that foreseeable? If it was foreseeable, why weren't extra staff hired and in place already?

    Yes people are inconvenienced by changes. Tough fucking shit, get over it already! Hire however many staff are needed for today's circumstances don't keep whining and crying that if only we had voted differently in an election six years ago that fewer would be needed.
    Once again, I will point out to you that I doubt many people who read our respective posts might draw the conclusion that I am less intelligent than you.

    Your last paragraph sums you up though. Rather like your repulsive post where you said that even if you had Covid you would go out without a mask and didn't care if you infected people, you just prove once again you are no more than a very selfish opinionated little turd who does not care about your fellow human beings. You claim to be a nationalist. Well the one redeeming feature of nationalists is that they normally claim to love their fellow countrymen. You just proved you don't give a shit about families stuck in their cars for hours. What an small minded, unpleasant as well as ill-informed little arse you are.

    Go and do something useful and learn a little more about life and other human beings.
    Oh piss off you pretentious bore.

    If people are stuck in queues because the French border force are short staffed then they're stuck because the French border force are short staffed. Not because of how I voted six years ago.

    Six years is more than enough time to adapt. If they've failed to do so, that's their responsibility, not mine.
    Lol. I'll accept pretentious perhaps, but again if the man on the Clapham omnibus had to compare us I think you might win out on the bore status by several country miles, Mr. uber-keyboard warrior! Always blame the furriner eh? The favourite redoubt of the intellectually challenged.
    I think the man on the Clapham omnibus would get off and wait for the next one if you were on it.
    Sorry @Nigel_Foremain but that's LoL funny from @Casino_Royale
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 46,643

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    2015 - Because Brexit?
    image

    2005 - Because Brexit?
    image

    1988 - Because Brexit?
    image

    East Kent resident here who grew up in Canterbury, now lives a couple of miles from J10 M20. Brexit has turned these problems from something that happened one or twice a year (strikes in France, problems at sea, fires in the tunnel). to once or twice a month. I’m looking forward to the upsides of Brexit because it’s caused nothing but shite down here, Even the “French didn’t put up enough officers” doesn’t cut it - they have to do twice the checks. The traffic flow four officers could put through now needs eight. The whole thing is a British caused issue, no one else.

    BTW the 1988 photo - the M20 hadn’t even been completed in 1988. Junction 8 for Maidstone to junction 9 for Ashford opened in 1991 and at the same time the extension to Dover, as part of the A20, was also constructed and opened in 1993 and a new junction, 11A was also built for the Channel Tunnel, which also wasn’t open in 1988. I don’t know where your photo is from, the A2 maybe, but it isn’t comparable with the current situation at all.
    If it takes eight staff to do the checks then hire 8 staff. Hire nine if need be.

    Being in a political union for the sake of four border staff is beyond preposterous on the face of it.

    There may be good reasons for Remain, or Leave, or Rejoin but that you need eight staff instead of four at the international border isn't one of them.
    Straw man. Wasn’t the point of my post and you know it, it was to point out that your photos were disingenuous bollocks designed to deliberately mislead from the fact that a political movement you espouse has caused huge problems. The need for the increased border staff is “because Brexit”. It’s our bed, you made it, now we’re lying in it. Thanks. Thanks a lot.
    They're not disingenuous bollocks, the point is that the border has had backlogs for decades whenever the French are short staffed at the border. Bugger all to do with Brexit.

    If it takes 4 staff and they only have 2, or it takes 8 staff and they only have 4, is neither here nor there. Staffing levels should be at whatever is needed, if they're not then that has sod all to do with Brexit.

    It's been six years since the vote. If 4 more staff were required and they haven't bothered to hire 4 people in six years that's not due to my or your vote.
    You moron, Brexit is the reason we need them in the first place!
    Bollocks the reason we need them in the first place is we aren't in Schengen!

    We always needed border staff as we aren't in Schengen. Whether you need slightly more or not is neither here nor there, you hire to meet the demand. If there's extra demand then hire more, that's not a reason to be in a political union.
    We only needed a token border post as we waived our passports. Now details are taken because of the 90 day rule, so it is Brexit.
    "Details" aren't taken. The passport is scanned and checked (it was always scanned in the past) and now it is stamped as well and the in/out date checked as well.

    That really is it.
    No, it wasn't *always* scanned at all. That is completely incorrect. I have been through the tunnel on numerous occasions prior to Brexit when it has been busy and I have just been waved through. Having to stamp and inspect all passports was not necessary going from UK to France prior to Brexit. Anyone with any knowledge of process will realise this makes a massive difference. This is the route of the problem. Brexit apologists need to stop arguing this, they are completely wrong. Fuck business, fuck travellers; this is the reality of Brexit, but hey, look at all the benefits eh?
    On all occasions I checked into Eurotunnel, or Eurostar, or at Heathrow, I had to use an e-gate (scan) or go through a passport desk, where it was scanned, because we were outside Schengen.

    I have been waved through transiting from France into Switzerland with a British passport in the past, at Geneva, but that's because I was already inside the Schengen area.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 11,750

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    2015 - Because Brexit?
    image

    2005 - Because Brexit?
    image

    1988 - Because Brexit?
    image

    East Kent resident here who grew up in Canterbury, now lives a couple of miles from J10 M20. Brexit has turned these problems from something that happened one or twice a year (strikes in France, problems at sea, fires in the tunnel). to once or twice a month. I’m looking forward to the upsides of Brexit because it’s caused nothing but shite down here, Even the “French didn’t put up enough officers” doesn’t cut it - they have to do twice the checks. The traffic flow four officers could put through now needs eight. The whole thing is a British caused issue, no one else.

    BTW the 1988 photo - the M20 hadn’t even been completed in 1988. Junction 8 for Maidstone to junction 9 for Ashford opened in 1991 and at the same time the extension to Dover, as part of the A20, was also constructed and opened in 1993 and a new junction, 11A was also built for the Channel Tunnel, which also wasn’t open in 1988. I don’t know where your photo is from, the A2 maybe, but it isn’t comparable with the current situation at all.
    If it takes eight staff to do the checks then hire 8 staff. Hire nine if need be.

    Being in a political union for the sake of four border staff is beyond preposterous on the face of it.

    There may be good reasons for Remain, or Leave, or Rejoin but that you need eight staff instead of four at the international border isn't one of them.
    Straw man. Wasn’t the point of my post and you know it, it was to point out that your photos were disingenuous bollocks designed to deliberately mislead from the fact that a political movement you espouse has caused huge problems. The need for the increased border staff is “because Brexit”. It’s our bed, you made it, now we’re lying in it. Thanks. Thanks a lot.
    They're not disingenuous bollocks, the point is that the border has had backlogs for decades whenever the French are short staffed at the border. Bugger all to do with Brexit.

    If it takes 4 staff and they only have 2, or it takes 8 staff and they only have 4, is neither here nor there. Staffing levels should be at whatever is needed, if they're not then that has sod all to do with Brexit.

    It's been six years since the vote. If 4 more staff were required and they haven't bothered to hire 4 people in six years that's not due to my or your vote.
    You moron, Brexit is the reason we need them in the first place!
    Bollocks the reason we need them in the first place is we aren't in Schengen!

    We always needed border staff as we aren't in Schengen. Whether you need slightly more or not is neither here nor there, you hire to meet the demand. If there's extra demand then hire more, that's not a reason to be in a political union.
    You are so dense I am going to start calling you Malcolm. The reason for the delay, Malc, is that the passports now have to be stamped and they didn't before. If you travelled a bit more, or did a job, rather than spending all your waking hours at a keyboard trotting out ill-informed opinions based on zero experience you would work this one out. Why don't you just accept that this is because of Brexit (which it is) instead of accepting the government propaganda ( basically anti-French xenophobia) and say, "Oh well, all these people are inconvenienced, but fuck them I got Brexit which I think it is worth it" . You are either completely stupid or more dishonest than Boris Johnson and Lightweight Lizzy put together.
    You are the dense one. They have had six years to prepare to staff their border. If it takes longer to stamp passports, did you only just figure that out today? Or was that foreseeable? If it was foreseeable, why weren't extra staff hired and in place already?

    Yes people are inconvenienced by changes. Tough fucking shit, get over it already! Hire however many staff are needed for today's circumstances don't keep whining and crying that if only we had voted differently in an election six years ago that fewer would be needed.
    Once again, I will point out to you that I doubt many people who read our respective posts might draw the conclusion that I am less intelligent than you.

    Your last paragraph sums you up though. Rather like your repulsive post where you said that even if you had Covid you would go out without a mask and didn't care if you infected people, you just prove once again you are no more than a very selfish opinionated little turd who does not care about your fellow human beings. You claim to be a nationalist. Well the one redeeming feature of nationalists is that they normally claim to love their fellow countrymen. You just proved you don't give a shit about families stuck in their cars for hours. What an small minded, unpleasant as well as ill-informed little arse you are.

    Go and do something useful and learn a little more about life and other human beings.
    Do you have to be so rude to @BartholomewRoberts ?

    Yes, you might not agree with him - but that really isn't necessary.
    You will note that I disagree with you, but I am not rude. I am rude to Barty because he is routinely rude to me and others, and unlike you does not manage make a reasonable argument.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 11,750

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    2015 - Because Brexit?
    image

    2005 - Because Brexit?
    image

    1988 - Because Brexit?
    image

    East Kent resident here who grew up in Canterbury, now lives a couple of miles from J10 M20. Brexit has turned these problems from something that happened one or twice a year (strikes in France, problems at sea, fires in the tunnel). to once or twice a month. I’m looking forward to the upsides of Brexit because it’s caused nothing but shite down here, Even the “French didn’t put up enough officers” doesn’t cut it - they have to do twice the checks. The traffic flow four officers could put through now needs eight. The whole thing is a British caused issue, no one else.

    BTW the 1988 photo - the M20 hadn’t even been completed in 1988. Junction 8 for Maidstone to junction 9 for Ashford opened in 1991 and at the same time the extension to Dover, as part of the A20, was also constructed and opened in 1993 and a new junction, 11A was also built for the Channel Tunnel, which also wasn’t open in 1988. I don’t know where your photo is from, the A2 maybe, but it isn’t comparable with the current situation at all.
    If it takes eight staff to do the checks then hire 8 staff. Hire nine if need be.

    Being in a political union for the sake of four border staff is beyond preposterous on the face of it.

    There may be good reasons for Remain, or Leave, or Rejoin but that you need eight staff instead of four at the international border isn't one of them.
    Straw man. Wasn’t the point of my post and you know it, it was to point out that your photos were disingenuous bollocks designed to deliberately mislead from the fact that a political movement you espouse has caused huge problems. The need for the increased border staff is “because Brexit”. It’s our bed, you made it, now we’re lying in it. Thanks. Thanks a lot.
    They're not disingenuous bollocks, the point is that the border has had backlogs for decades whenever the French are short staffed at the border. Bugger all to do with Brexit.

    If it takes 4 staff and they only have 2, or it takes 8 staff and they only have 4, is neither here nor there. Staffing levels should be at whatever is needed, if they're not then that has sod all to do with Brexit.

    It's been six years since the vote. If 4 more staff were required and they haven't bothered to hire 4 people in six years that's not due to my or your vote.
    You moron, Brexit is the reason we need them in the first place!
    Bollocks the reason we need them in the first place is we aren't in Schengen!

    We always needed border staff as we aren't in Schengen. Whether you need slightly more or not is neither here nor there, you hire to meet the demand. If there's extra demand then hire more, that's not a reason to be in a political union.
    You are so dense I am going to start calling you Malcolm. The reason for the delay, Malc, is that the passports now have to be stamped and they didn't before. If you travelled a bit more, or did a job, rather than spending all your waking hours at a keyboard trotting out ill-informed opinions based on zero experience you would work this one out. Why don't you just accept that this is because of Brexit (which it is) instead of accepting the government propaganda ( basically anti-French xenophobia) and say, "Oh well, all these people are inconvenienced, but fuck them I got Brexit which I think it is worth it" . You are either completely stupid or more dishonest than Boris Johnson and Lightweight Lizzy put together.
    You are the dense one. They have had six years to prepare to staff their border. If it takes longer to stamp passports, did you only just figure that out today? Or was that foreseeable? If it was foreseeable, why weren't extra staff hired and in place already?

    Yes people are inconvenienced by changes. Tough fucking shit, get over it already! Hire however many staff are needed for today's circumstances don't keep whining and crying that if only we had voted differently in an election six years ago that fewer would be needed.
    Once again, I will point out to you that I doubt many people who read our respective posts might draw the conclusion that I am less intelligent than you.

    Your last paragraph sums you up though. Rather like your repulsive post where you said that even if you had Covid you would go out without a mask and didn't care if you infected people, you just prove once again you are no more than a very selfish opinionated little turd who does not care about your fellow human beings. You claim to be a nationalist. Well the one redeeming feature of nationalists is that they normally claim to love their fellow countrymen. You just proved you don't give a shit about families stuck in their cars for hours. What an small minded, unpleasant as well as ill-informed little arse you are.

    Go and do something useful and learn a little more about life and other human beings.
    Oh piss off you pretentious bore.

    If people are stuck in queues because the French border force are short staffed then they're stuck because the French border force are short staffed. Not because of how I voted six years ago.

    Six years is more than enough time to adapt. If they've failed to do so, that's their responsibility, not mine.
    Lol. I'll accept pretentious perhaps, but again if the man on the Clapham omnibus had to compare us I think you might win out on the bore status by several country miles, Mr. uber-keyboard warrior! Always blame the furriner eh? The favourite redoubt of the intellectually challenged.
    I think the man on the Clapham omnibus would get off and wait for the next one if you were on it.
    I always wondered how I managed to get the top floor all to myself in that vicinity.
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,204

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    2015 - Because Brexit?
    image

    2005 - Because Brexit?
    image

    1988 - Because Brexit?
    image

    East Kent resident here who grew up in Canterbury, now lives a couple of miles from J10 M20. Brexit has turned these problems from something that happened one or twice a year (strikes in France, problems at sea, fires in the tunnel). to once or twice a month. I’m looking forward to the upsides of Brexit because it’s caused nothing but shite down here, Even the “French didn’t put up enough officers” doesn’t cut it - they have to do twice the checks. The traffic flow four officers could put through now needs eight. The whole thing is a British caused issue, no one else.

    BTW the 1988 photo - the M20 hadn’t even been completed in 1988. Junction 8 for Maidstone to junction 9 for Ashford opened in 1991 and at the same time the extension to Dover, as part of the A20, was also constructed and opened in 1993 and a new junction, 11A was also built for the Channel Tunnel, which also wasn’t open in 1988. I don’t know where your photo is from, the A2 maybe, but it isn’t comparable with the current situation at all.
    If it takes eight staff to do the checks then hire 8 staff. Hire nine if need be.

    Being in a political union for the sake of four border staff is beyond preposterous on the face of it.

    There may be good reasons for Remain, or Leave, or Rejoin but that you need eight staff instead of four at the international border isn't one of them.
    Straw man. Wasn’t the point of my post and you know it, it was to point out that your photos were disingenuous bollocks designed to deliberately mislead from the fact that a political movement you espouse has caused huge problems. The need for the increased border staff is “because Brexit”. It’s our bed, you made it, now we’re lying in it. Thanks. Thanks a lot.
    They're not disingenuous bollocks, the point is that the border has had backlogs for decades whenever the French are short staffed at the border. Bugger all to do with Brexit.

    If it takes 4 staff and they only have 2, or it takes 8 staff and they only have 4, is neither here nor there. Staffing levels should be at whatever is needed, if they're not then that has sod all to do with Brexit.

    It's been six years since the vote. If 4 more staff were required and they haven't bothered to hire 4 people in six years that's not due to my or your vote.
    You moron, Brexit is the reason we need them in the first place!
    Bollocks the reason we need them in the first place is we aren't in Schengen!

    We always needed border staff as we aren't in Schengen. Whether you need slightly more or not is neither here nor there, you hire to meet the demand. If there's extra demand then hire more, that's not a reason to be in a political union.
    We only needed a token border post as we waived our passports. Now details are taken because of the 90 day rule, so it is Brexit.
    "Details" aren't taken. The passport is scanned and checked (it was always scanned in the past) and now it is stamped as well and the in/out date checked as well.

    That really is it.
    No, it wasn't *always* scanned at all. That is completely incorrect. I have been through the tunnel on numerous occasions prior to Brexit when it has been busy and I have just been waved through. Having to stamp and inspect all passports was not necessary going from UK to France prior to Brexit. Anyone with any knowledge of process will realise this makes a massive difference. This is the route of the problem. Brexit apologists need to stop arguing this, they are completely wrong. Fuck business, fuck travellers; this is the reality of Brexit, but hey, look at all the benefits eh?
    Was it news to you that checks would need to be done? Checks are done at international borders all over the world.

    If checks are needed, hire however many staff are required to do the checks.

    That's not a reason to be in a political union.
    If the two countries involved are in a Single Market and a Customs Union, then there's very little point in stopping people moving either way to carry out checks.
    The version of Brexit chosen by Boris's government means we are in neither.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 11,750

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    2015 - Because Brexit?
    image

    2005 - Because Brexit?
    image

    1988 - Because Brexit?
    image

    East Kent resident here who grew up in Canterbury, now lives a couple of miles from J10 M20. Brexit has turned these problems from something that happened one or twice a year (strikes in France, problems at sea, fires in the tunnel). to once or twice a month. I’m looking forward to the upsides of Brexit because it’s caused nothing but shite down here, Even the “French didn’t put up enough officers” doesn’t cut it - they have to do twice the checks. The traffic flow four officers could put through now needs eight. The whole thing is a British caused issue, no one else.

    BTW the 1988 photo - the M20 hadn’t even been completed in 1988. Junction 8 for Maidstone to junction 9 for Ashford opened in 1991 and at the same time the extension to Dover, as part of the A20, was also constructed and opened in 1993 and a new junction, 11A was also built for the Channel Tunnel, which also wasn’t open in 1988. I don’t know where your photo is from, the A2 maybe, but it isn’t comparable with the current situation at all.
    If it takes eight staff to do the checks then hire 8 staff. Hire nine if need be.

    Being in a political union for the sake of four border staff is beyond preposterous on the face of it.

    There may be good reasons for Remain, or Leave, or Rejoin but that you need eight staff instead of four at the international border isn't one of them.
    Straw man. Wasn’t the point of my post and you know it, it was to point out that your photos were disingenuous bollocks designed to deliberately mislead from the fact that a political movement you espouse has caused huge problems. The need for the increased border staff is “because Brexit”. It’s our bed, you made it, now we’re lying in it. Thanks. Thanks a lot.
    They're not disingenuous bollocks, the point is that the border has had backlogs for decades whenever the French are short staffed at the border. Bugger all to do with Brexit.

    If it takes 4 staff and they only have 2, or it takes 8 staff and they only have 4, is neither here nor there. Staffing levels should be at whatever is needed, if they're not then that has sod all to do with Brexit.

    It's been six years since the vote. If 4 more staff were required and they haven't bothered to hire 4 people in six years that's not due to my or your vote.
    You moron, Brexit is the reason we need them in the first place!
    Bollocks the reason we need them in the first place is we aren't in Schengen!

    We always needed border staff as we aren't in Schengen. Whether you need slightly more or not is neither here nor there, you hire to meet the demand. If there's extra demand then hire more, that's not a reason to be in a political union.
    We only needed a token border post as we waived our passports. Now details are taken because of the 90 day rule, so it is Brexit.
    "Details" aren't taken. The passport is scanned and checked (it was always scanned in the past) and now it is stamped as well and the in/out date checked as well.

    That really is it.
    No, it wasn't *always* scanned at all. That is completely incorrect. I have been through the tunnel on numerous occasions prior to Brexit when it has been busy and I have just been waved through. Having to stamp and inspect all passports was not necessary going from UK to France prior to Brexit. Anyone with any knowledge of process will realise this makes a massive difference. This is the route of the problem. Brexit apologists need to stop arguing this, they are completely wrong. Fuck business, fuck travellers; this is the reality of Brexit, but hey, look at all the benefits eh?
    On all occasions I checked into Eurotunnel, or Eurostar, or at Heathrow, I had to use an e-gate (scan) or go through a passport desk, where it was scanned, because we were outside Schengen.

    I have been waved through transiting from France into Switzerland with a British passport in the past, at Geneva, but that's because I was already inside the Schengen area.
    Be assured it happened to me on many occasions. They cannot do that now as we are a "third country". I am sure it will all get sorted out, but my view is that it is pretty cynical of the UK government to blame the French and hardly conducive to them cooperating.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 11,750
    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    2015 - Because Brexit?
    image

    2005 - Because Brexit?
    image

    1988 - Because Brexit?
    image

    East Kent resident here who grew up in Canterbury, now lives a couple of miles from J10 M20. Brexit has turned these problems from something that happened one or twice a year (strikes in France, problems at sea, fires in the tunnel). to once or twice a month. I’m looking forward to the upsides of Brexit because it’s caused nothing but shite down here, Even the “French didn’t put up enough officers” doesn’t cut it - they have to do twice the checks. The traffic flow four officers could put through now needs eight. The whole thing is a British caused issue, no one else.

    BTW the 1988 photo - the M20 hadn’t even been completed in 1988. Junction 8 for Maidstone to junction 9 for Ashford opened in 1991 and at the same time the extension to Dover, as part of the A20, was also constructed and opened in 1993 and a new junction, 11A was also built for the Channel Tunnel, which also wasn’t open in 1988. I don’t know where your photo is from, the A2 maybe, but it isn’t comparable with the current situation at all.
    If it takes eight staff to do the checks then hire 8 staff. Hire nine if need be.

    Being in a political union for the sake of four border staff is beyond preposterous on the face of it.

    There may be good reasons for Remain, or Leave, or Rejoin but that you need eight staff instead of four at the international border isn't one of them.
    Straw man. Wasn’t the point of my post and you know it, it was to point out that your photos were disingenuous bollocks designed to deliberately mislead from the fact that a political movement you espouse has caused huge problems. The need for the increased border staff is “because Brexit”. It’s our bed, you made it, now we’re lying in it. Thanks. Thanks a lot.
    They're not disingenuous bollocks, the point is that the border has had backlogs for decades whenever the French are short staffed at the border. Bugger all to do with Brexit.

    If it takes 4 staff and they only have 2, or it takes 8 staff and they only have 4, is neither here nor there. Staffing levels should be at whatever is needed, if they're not then that has sod all to do with Brexit.

    It's been six years since the vote. If 4 more staff were required and they haven't bothered to hire 4 people in six years that's not due to my or your vote.
    You moron, Brexit is the reason we need them in the first place!
    Bollocks the reason we need them in the first place is we aren't in Schengen!

    We always needed border staff as we aren't in Schengen. Whether you need slightly more or not is neither here nor there, you hire to meet the demand. If there's extra demand then hire more, that's not a reason to be in a political union.
    You are so dense I am going to start calling you Malcolm. The reason for the delay, Malc, is that the passports now have to be stamped and they didn't before. If you travelled a bit more, or did a job, rather than spending all your waking hours at a keyboard trotting out ill-informed opinions based on zero experience you would work this one out. Why don't you just accept that this is because of Brexit (which it is) instead of accepting the government propaganda ( basically anti-French xenophobia) and say, "Oh well, all these people are inconvenienced, but fuck them I got Brexit which I think it is worth it" . You are either completely stupid or more dishonest than Boris Johnson and Lightweight Lizzy put together.
    You are the dense one. They have had six years to prepare to staff their border. If it takes longer to stamp passports, did you only just figure that out today? Or was that foreseeable? If it was foreseeable, why weren't extra staff hired and in place already?

    Yes people are inconvenienced by changes. Tough fucking shit, get over it already! Hire however many staff are needed for today's circumstances don't keep whining and crying that if only we had voted differently in an election six years ago that fewer would be needed.
    Once again, I will point out to you that I doubt many people who read our respective posts might draw the conclusion that I am less intelligent than you.

    Your last paragraph sums you up though. Rather like your repulsive post where you said that even if you had Covid you would go out without a mask and didn't care if you infected people, you just prove once again you are no more than a very selfish opinionated little turd who does not care about your fellow human beings. You claim to be a nationalist. Well the one redeeming feature of nationalists is that they normally claim to love their fellow countrymen. You just proved you don't give a shit about families stuck in their cars for hours. What an small minded, unpleasant as well as ill-informed little arse you are.

    Go and do something useful and learn a little more about life and other human beings.
    Oh piss off you pretentious bore.

    If people are stuck in queues because the French border force are short staffed then they're stuck because the French border force are short staffed. Not because of how I voted six years ago.

    Six years is more than enough time to adapt. If they've failed to do so, that's their responsibility, not mine.
    Lol. I'll accept pretentious perhaps, but again if the man on the Clapham omnibus had to compare us I think you might win out on the bore status by several country miles, Mr. uber-keyboard warrior! Always blame the furriner eh? The favourite redoubt of the intellectually challenged.
    I think the man on the Clapham omnibus would get off and wait for the next one if you were on it.
    Sorry @Nigel_Foremain but that's LoL funny from @Casino_Royale
    I agree. I tried to make a reply that was equally amusing but I think I failed
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 46,643
    Off topic, but should really be on topic, this is a classic of the genre of how the BBC reports and thus misreports politics: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-62238068

    How many Conservative Party members are on 'social media' or care who's winning the war on it?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 17,955
    edited July 24

    IshmaelZ said:

    Back to politics

    The former Labour leadership contender Rebecca Long-Bailey has called for Labour to drop its cautious approach to the economy and fight the next election on a radical manifesto including state ownership and a living standards contract between government and public.

    In her first significant economic policy intervention since the 2020 leadership contest won by Sir Keir Starmer, Long-Bailey said Labour would need transformative policies if it was to win the next election.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jul/24/rebecca-long-bailey-calls-for-labour-to-drop-cautious-approach-to-economy

    Mad obvs but who knows? - the financial crisis this winter with bonkers Liz at the helm is going to be soooo much worse than people realise, Labour could have their best chance since 1946 to come in with a really extensive New Deal set of proposals. Shame, or good thing, Sir Interesting is at the helm and not jezza or RLB.

    It is not actually that mad an idea. A "Reduce the Cost of Living" manifesto might go down very well with the electorate
    Not if Conservative High Command can throw in some culture wars and a taxi drivers from the Indian Subcontinent narrative.

    Nonetheless Rebecca Long- Bailey is just best ignored along with her mentor and thread header star billing anyway.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 10,759
    Evening all :)

    Not wishing to pour petrol onto a perfectly good fire but it's been instructive to see how the delays at Dover and Folkestone have been reported and analysed.

    There are two distinct and very different interpretations - one says the French were ill-prepared, didn't have enough staff and caused the delays. The other says the French may have been under-prepared but the additional processes required now we are no longer part of the EU and the SM have contributed to the delays.

    One is, if you like, the Trussite approach and the other isn't.

    The truth is of course one or other may be right, both may be right or neither is right.

    One could argue after two quieter years we are seeing a return to pre-Covid volumes of British people going off on their holidays and wanting to access the Eurotunnel and the Kent ports. This was foreseeable and could and should have been anticipated and mitigated by both sides through either negotiation or help. It may well be the French are struggling to recruit border staff - we are as well - it may be additional checks imposed as part of the arrangements to leave the EU have slowed the whole process down.

    It helps a British nationalist like Truss to strut round blaming "Johnny Foreigner" but it's equally absurd to assume "it's all down to Brexit". For those poor families stuck for hours in their cars, it's little consolation one way or the other.

    The unpalatable truth is this was all foreseeable, preventable and the level of risk could have been simply mitigated but instead national politics and pride have created an absurd situation and instead of two Governments co-operating and working together to mitigate the issue, we've had posturing which plays well to the domestic audience but doesn't actually solve the problem,
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 1,121

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    2015 - Because Brexit?
    image

    2005 - Because Brexit?
    image

    1988 - Because Brexit?
    image

    East Kent resident here who grew up in Canterbury, now lives a couple of miles from J10 M20. Brexit has turned these problems from something that happened one or twice a year (strikes in France, problems at sea, fires in the tunnel). to once or twice a month. I’m looking forward to the upsides of Brexit because it’s caused nothing but shite down here, Even the “French didn’t put up enough officers” doesn’t cut it - they have to do twice the checks. The traffic flow four officers could put through now needs eight. The whole thing is a British caused issue, no one else.

    BTW the 1988 photo - the M20 hadn’t even been completed in 1988. Junction 8 for Maidstone to junction 9 for Ashford opened in 1991 and at the same time the extension to Dover, as part of the A20, was also constructed and opened in 1993 and a new junction, 11A was also built for the Channel Tunnel, which also wasn’t open in 1988. I don’t know where your photo is from, the A2 maybe, but it isn’t comparable with the current situation at all.
    If it takes eight staff to do the checks then hire 8 staff. Hire nine if need be.

    Being in a political union for the sake of four border staff is beyond preposterous on the face of it.

    There may be good reasons for Remain, or Leave, or Rejoin but that you need eight staff instead of four at the international border isn't one of them.
    Straw man. Wasn’t the point of my post and you know it, it was to point out that your photos were disingenuous bollocks designed to deliberately mislead from the fact that a political movement you espouse has caused huge problems. The need for the increased border staff is “because Brexit”. It’s our bed, you made it, now we’re lying in it. Thanks. Thanks a lot.
    They're not disingenuous bollocks, the point is that the border has had backlogs for decades whenever the French are short staffed at the border. Bugger all to do with Brexit.

    If it takes 4 staff and they only have 2, or it takes 8 staff and they only have 4, is neither here nor there. Staffing levels should be at whatever is needed, if they're not then that has sod all to do with Brexit.

    It's been six years since the vote. If 4 more staff were required and they haven't bothered to hire 4 people in six years that's not due to my or your vote.
    You moron, Brexit is the reason we need them in the first place!
    Bollocks the reason we need them in the first place is we aren't in Schengen!

    We always needed border staff as we aren't in Schengen. Whether you need slightly more or not is neither here nor there, you hire to meet the demand. If there's extra demand then hire more, that's not a reason to be in a political union.
    We only needed a token border post as we waived our passports. Now details are taken because of the 90 day rule, so it is Brexit.
    "Details" aren't taken. The passport is scanned and checked (it was always scanned in the past) and now it is stamped as well and the in/out date checked as well.

    That really is it.
    No, it wasn't *always* scanned at all. That is completely incorrect. I have been through the tunnel on numerous occasions prior to Brexit when it has been busy and I have just been waved through. Having to stamp and inspect all passports was not necessary going from UK to France prior to Brexit. Anyone with any knowledge of process will realise this makes a massive difference. This is the route of the problem. Brexit apologists need to stop arguing this, they are completely wrong. Fuck business, fuck travellers; this is the reality of Brexit, but hey, look at all the benefits eh?
    On all occasions I checked into Eurotunnel, or Eurostar, or at Heathrow, I had to use an e-gate (scan) or go through a passport desk, where it was scanned, because we were outside Schengen.

    I have been waved through transiting from France into Switzerland with a British passport in the past, at Geneva, but that's because I was already inside the Schengen area.
    I have experienced waving-through from non-schengen to or from schengen only once: gibraltar to and from Spain. Pre-brexit, as a pedestrian, the procedure was to open it at the photo page and walk past the guard holding it open, merely pointing it in their direction.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 103,034
    edited July 24

    Off topic, but should really be on topic, this is a classic of the genre of how the BBC reports and thus misreports politics: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-62238068

    How many Conservative Party members are on 'social media' or care who's winning the war on it?

    The Times' support for Sunak and the Mail's and Express' support for Truss and the Telegraph's sympathies too with the latter are likely to be more significant for Tory members given more likely read a daily paper than actively use social media, especially the oldest ones
This discussion has been closed.