A Tory coronation? – politicalbetting.com
Comments
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Apparently they may have had to sign something promising they won't do that if they get to the final two.biggles said:
If that’s the final two, I think it’s 50/50 Truss will drop a clanger and drop out.kle4 said:I really do worry about a Sunak vs Truss contest.
Not because I think he is the bee's knees or anything, but because Truss knows she is not as good at answering things and presenting herself, so she will just go hard on how she is the true Brexiter and belittle any attempt to discuss detail, as he will probably out debate her on such matters.
I'm just not sure she can drop any clanger big enough to ruin her chances against Sunak - she is the hard Brexiter's choice, many members don't like Rishi, and she is right she is an experienced minister, unlikely to make a devastating cock up.1 -
Well, I couldn't, because she kept interrupting. And with my hearing difficulties it's really, really hard to hear over background droning in the same pitch.Casino_Royale said:
I heard good and clear answers from all the candidates, and she challenged them when they were not.ydoethur said:
If 'interrupting every five seconds' and 'never giving them a chance to answer' is your idea of 'being polite and respectful,' you and I have very different definitions of good manners. She came across as rude, arrogant and ineffectual.Casino_Royale said:
God, no. She was much better.ydoethur said:One thing I think we can all agree on, this moderator is crap compared to KGM last Friday.
Kept order and held them to account for answering questions whilst being polite and respectful.
Julie Etchingham is a class act.
Edit - although I suppose the mere fact you don't agree shows my original comment is wrong.
But even allowing for that, it was just bad manners. I thought she was absolutely awful.0 -
If the last 3 are Penny, Rishi and Liz and Rishi was clearly in front in the penultimate round I expect him to lend some MPs to Penny to knock out Liz. The ERG would go beserk of course but it would probably be the best thing for Tory electability at the next general electionnumbertwelve said:I hope we still get Rishi and Penny as the final two because at least it keeps Liz Truss away from the membership. I suspect that Rishi would be able to mount a successful campaign against Penny now, given she hasn’t been able to clearly articulate her big picture. I worry about Rishi v Truss. I think she’d win.
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29C at 8pm, central London
Tomorrow is going to be fearsome0 -
Rishi is even smarmier than Blair.Foxy said:Rishi the only one looking capable of being PM. The others all too lightweight, which is a pity. I am green all round but least on Sunak.
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I increasingly think it will be Truss vs Sunak0
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There’s an oddly concerted, oddly standardised way in which Twitter posts rubbishing the heatwave are focusing on supposed “colour inflation” on BBC maps (which is hilariously wrong, the colours are redder because it’s hotter - colour scheme has hardly changed) and the comparison of “2 days” vs that Blitz of boomer weather lore, 1976.
Either all these people are having the same idea at once, and using the same painstakingly archived material, or there’s
something going on.
I suspect there’s something going on. How much did it cost, lads?0 -
I hadn’t picked up on that. One would hope the MPs will be very aware when they shape their choice of the final two.kle4 said:
Apparently they may have had to sign something promising they won't do that if they get to the final two.biggles said:
If that’s the final two, I think it’s 50/50 Truss will drop a clanger and drop out.kle4 said:I really do worry about a Sunak vs Truss contest.
Not because I think he is the bee's knees or anything, but because Truss knows she is not as good at answering things and presenting herself, so she will just go hard on how she is the true Brexiter and belittle any attempt to discuss detail, as he will probably out debate her on such matters.
I'm just not sure she can drop any clanger big enough to ruin her chances against Sunak - she is the hard Brexiter's choice, many members don't like Rishi, and she is right she is an experienced minister, unlikely to make a devastating cock up.
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I've never bought into the idea that slick presentation means you cannot understand peoples' concerns. I don't think politicians who imply such things believe it either, since they don't claim it if they/their leader presents well. It is just something they claim if they know they are not as good at presenting as their opponent, so it is fundamentally a dishonest attack when Rishi's counterparts imply it.MrEd said:
Sunak's problem is not that he doesn't come across well, it is that he is too slick and won't understand people's concerns. What in tonight's debate provided evidence that addressed this?kle4 said:In order of debate performance
Sunak - mostly because he spoke the most and had to counter questions and attacks more, and largely did so well
Truss - Confident, direct, painted it as her vs Rishi
Kemi - Quieter, but when speaking mostly did well
Tugendhat - had some moments, but largely irrelevant
Mordaunt - Made no real impact
In order of debate winners
Truss - more substantial a figure than Mordaunt, and though she had some bad answers from my POV, nothing to sink her. From this I'd think she can overtake Mordaunt.
Sunak - Still comes across well, and dealt with attacks mostly ok. Solidified his position with MPs I think.
Tugendhat - was going nowhere and still is, so no change.
Kemi - did not grab attention, felt like a bystander
Mordaunt - eclipsed massively by Truss, had no standout moments.
However, I agree that many do think that of Rishi (though I disagree it is because of his slickness), and agree he hasn't addressed that. How can he? If he says he understands people don't believe him.0 -
It's just the same as this morning. His weakness is Mordaunt's strength, and they still both together offer the most that's distinctive.MrEd said:
Sunak's problem is not that he doesn't come across well, it is that he is too slick and won't understand people's concerns. What in tonight's debate provided evidence that addressed this?kle4 said:In order of debate performance
Sunak - mostly because he spoke the most and had to counter questions and attacks more, and largely did so well
Truss - Confident, direct, painted it as her vs Rishi
Kemi - Quieter, but when speaking mostly did well
Tugendhat - had some moments, but largely irrelevant
Mordaunt - Made no real impact
In order of debate winners
Truss - more substantial a figure than Mordaunt, and though she had some bad answers from my POV, nothing to sink her. From this I'd think she can overtake Mordaunt.
Sunak - Still comes across well, and dealt with attacks mostly ok. Solidified his position with MPs I think.
Tugendhat - was going nowhere and still is, so no change.
Kemi - did not grab attention, felt like a bystander
Mordaunt - eclipsed massively by Truss, had no standout moments.
If Tugendhat can overcome his natural diffidence, he may be Prime Minister one day, too. Badenoch needs several more years.0 -
He'll play the family card a lot, especially against Penny. It will make him a lot more relatable than a 49 year old divorced person with no kids (and no chance of kids). You could see Rishi, Kemi and Liz all push the family/kids based stuff because it makes them a lot more relatable and in general voters like for politicians to have a family/kids.MrEd said:
Sunak's problem is not that he doesn't come across well, it is that he is too slick and won't understand people's concerns. What in tonight's debate provided evidence that addressed this?kle4 said:In order of debate performance
Sunak - mostly because he spoke the most and had to counter questions and attacks more, and largely did so well
Truss - Confident, direct, painted it as her vs Rishi
Kemi - Quieter, but when speaking mostly did well
Tugendhat - had some moments, but largely irrelevant
Mordaunt - Made no real impact
In order of debate winners
Truss - more substantial a figure than Mordaunt, and though she had some bad answers from my POV, nothing to sink her. From this I'd think she can overtake Mordaunt.
Sunak - Still comes across well, and dealt with attacks mostly ok. Solidified his position with MPs I think.
Tugendhat - was going nowhere and still is, so no change.
Kemi - did not grab attention, felt like a bystander
Mordaunt - eclipsed massively by Truss, had no standout moments.0 -
I’m on +1.
I don’t think Badenoch’s argument that Government can’t do anything is an attractive offer. (Is this her truth?)
Why are people saying Mordaunt was poor? This is a much better performance. Truss also better than Friday.2 -
Suspect that was podgy little me….when I liked KLE’s post (which I did) the off-topic flag disappeared.ydoethur said:
I'm going to assume whoever 'off topiced' this had fat finger syndrome. Because if that's off topic we're all in trouble.kle4 said:In order of debate performance
Sunak - mostly because he spoke the most and had to counter questions and attacks more, and largely did so well
Truss - Confident, direct, painted it as her vs Rishi
Kemi - Quieter, but when speaking mostly did well
Tugendhat - had some moments, but largely irrelevant
Mordaunt - Made no real impact
In order of debate winners
Truss - more substantial a figure than Mordaunt, and though she had some bad answers from my POV, nothing to sink her. From this I'd think she can overtake Mordaunt.
Sunak - Still comes across well, and dealt with attacks mostly ok. Solidified his position with MPs I think.
Tugendhat - was going nowhere and still is, so no change.
Kemi - did not grab attention, felt like a bystander
Mordaunt - eclipsed massively by Truss, had no standout moments.3 -
And the '22 would do - what exactly? - if they reneged on it?kle4 said:
Apparently they may have had to sign something promising they won't do that if they get to the final two.biggles said:
If that’s the final two, I think it’s 50/50 Truss will drop a clanger and drop out.kle4 said:I really do worry about a Sunak vs Truss contest.
Not because I think he is the bee's knees or anything, but because Truss knows she is not as good at answering things and presenting herself, so she will just go hard on how she is the true Brexiter and belittle any attempt to discuss detail, as he will probably out debate her on such matters.
I'm just not sure she can drop any clanger big enough to ruin her chances against Sunak - she is the hard Brexiter's choice, many members don't like Rishi, and she is right she is an experienced minister, unlikely to make a devastating cock up.
Make them stand an extra round at Annie's Bar?1 -
Sadly, I think you are right.CorrectHorseBattery said:I increasingly think it will be Truss vs Sunak
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A strong statement.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Rishi is even smarmier than Blair.Foxy said:Rishi the only one looking capable of being PM. The others all too lightweight, which is a pity. I am green all round but least on Sunak.
He did seem the only one who could crack a smile. Lighten the f*ck up candidates, we don't want a Caligula type libertine unconcerned with the problems of the day, but you could also try to cheer us with some optimism.0 -
What’s best for Labour is the worst for the country .
I cannot bring myself to hope Truss wins . So for the good of the country anyone but Truss .0 -
I believe you on internal Tory affairs, but I find it fascinating that the ERG might end up backing someone who campaigned for Remain!HYUFD said:
If the last 3 are Penny, Rishi and Liz and Rishi was clearly in front in the penultimate round I expect him to lend some MPs to Penny to knock out Liz. The ERG would go beserk of course but it would probably be the best thing for Tory electability at the next general electionnumbertwelve said:I hope we still get Rishi and Penny as the final two because at least it keeps Liz Truss away from the membership. I suspect that Rishi would be able to mount a successful campaign against Penny now, given she hasn’t been able to clearly articulate her big picture. I worry about Rishi v Truss. I think she’d win.
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Her appeal seems to be based solely on thatSunil_Prasannan said:I still fancy Penny the most
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5
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The problem though is that his family live in moon-suits in a climate-change ready bunker somewhere outside of San Jose.MaxPB said:
He'll play the family card a lot, especially against Penny. It will make him a lot more relatable than a 49 year old divorced person with no kids (and no chance of kids). You could see Rishi, Kemi and Liz all push the family/kids based stuff because it makes them a lot more relatable and in general voters like for politicians to have a family/kids.MrEd said:
Sunak's problem is not that he doesn't come across well, it is that he is too slick and won't understand people's concerns. What in tonight's debate provided evidence that addressed this?kle4 said:In order of debate performance
Sunak - mostly because he spoke the most and had to counter questions and attacks more, and largely did so well
Truss - Confident, direct, painted it as her vs Rishi
Kemi - Quieter, but when speaking mostly did well
Tugendhat - had some moments, but largely irrelevant
Mordaunt - Made no real impact
In order of debate winners
Truss - more substantial a figure than Mordaunt, and though she had some bad answers from my POV, nothing to sink her. From this I'd think she can overtake Mordaunt.
Sunak - Still comes across well, and dealt with attacks mostly ok. Solidified his position with MPs I think.
Tugendhat - was going nowhere and still is, so no change.
Kemi - did not grab attention, felt like a bystander
Mordaunt - eclipsed massively by Truss, had no standout moments.
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Tuning in on itv+1. Not their audience, but still not impressed. Big dog leaves a vacuum and I wonder how Ben Wallace might have got on.2
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But that's just because they know they have a handicap against her, on that front. She's just naturally better at emotionally relating.MaxPB said:
He'll play the family card a lot, especially against Penny. It will make him a lot more relatable than a 49 year old divorced person with no kids (and no chance of kids). You could see Rishi, Kemi and Liz all push the family/kids based stuff because it makes them a lot more relatable and in general voters like for politicians to have a family/kids.MrEd said:
Sunak's problem is not that he doesn't come across well, it is that he is too slick and won't understand people's concerns. What in tonight's debate provided evidence that addressed this?kle4 said:In order of debate performance
Sunak - mostly because he spoke the most and had to counter questions and attacks more, and largely did so well
Truss - Confident, direct, painted it as her vs Rishi
Kemi - Quieter, but when speaking mostly did well
Tugendhat - had some moments, but largely irrelevant
Mordaunt - Made no real impact
In order of debate winners
Truss - more substantial a figure than Mordaunt, and though she had some bad answers from my POV, nothing to sink her. From this I'd think she can overtake Mordaunt.
Sunak - Still comes across well, and dealt with attacks mostly ok. Solidified his position with MPs I think.
Tugendhat - was going nowhere and still is, so no change.
Kemi - did not grab attention, felt like a bystander
Mordaunt - eclipsed massively by Truss, had no standout moments.0 -
Are you well tubbs?turbotubbs said:
Sadly, I think you are right.CorrectHorseBattery said:I increasingly think it will be Truss vs Sunak
They’re both dream candidates for Labour0 -
Maybe he thinks the admission will come in handy.TheScreamingEagles said:Hah, Tom's got a sense of humour
https://twitter.com/TomTugendhat/status/15487466801321123870 -
Didn't work so well for Leadsom v May.MaxPB said:
He'll play the family card a lot, especially against Penny. It will make him a lot more relatable than a 49 year old divorced person with no kids (and no chance of kids). You could see Rishi, Kemi and Liz all push the family/kids based stuff because it makes them a lot more relatable and in general voters like for politicians to have a family/kids.MrEd said:
Sunak's problem is not that he doesn't come across well, it is that he is too slick and won't understand people's concerns. What in tonight's debate provided evidence that addressed this?kle4 said:In order of debate performance
Sunak - mostly because he spoke the most and had to counter questions and attacks more, and largely did so well
Truss - Confident, direct, painted it as her vs Rishi
Kemi - Quieter, but when speaking mostly did well
Tugendhat - had some moments, but largely irrelevant
Mordaunt - Made no real impact
In order of debate winners
Truss - more substantial a figure than Mordaunt, and though she had some bad answers from my POV, nothing to sink her. From this I'd think she can overtake Mordaunt.
Sunak - Still comes across well, and dealt with attacks mostly ok. Solidified his position with MPs I think.
Tugendhat - was going nowhere and still is, so no change.
Kemi - did not grab attention, felt like a bystander
Mordaunt - eclipsed massively by Truss, had no standout moments.5 -
PM has 4 cats. Don’t overlook the cat vote. After all, what party do you think fat cats all joined!MaxPB said:
He'll play the family card a lot, especially against Penny. It will make him a lot more relatable than a 49 year old divorced person with no kids (and no chance of kids). You could see Rishi, Kemi and Liz all push the family/kids based stuff because it makes them a lot more relatable and in general voters like for politicians to have a family/kids.MrEd said:
Sunak's problem is not that he doesn't come across well, it is that he is too slick and won't understand people's concerns. What in tonight's debate provided evidence that addressed this?kle4 said:In order of debate performance
Sunak - mostly because he spoke the most and had to counter questions and attacks more, and largely did so well
Truss - Confident, direct, painted it as her vs Rishi
Kemi - Quieter, but when speaking mostly did well
Tugendhat - had some moments, but largely irrelevant
Mordaunt - Made no real impact
In order of debate winners
Truss - more substantial a figure than Mordaunt, and though she had some bad answers from my POV, nothing to sink her. From this I'd think she can overtake Mordaunt.
Sunak - Still comes across well, and dealt with attacks mostly ok. Solidified his position with MPs I think.
Tugendhat - was going nowhere and still is, so no change.
Kemi - did not grab attention, felt like a bystander
Mordaunt - eclipsed massively by Truss, had no standout moments.
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It may well depend if it was a formal committment as part of the rule making process - you could make it so they cannot withdraw, like how candidates remain on the ballot as registered for a GE even if, say, they are suspended by their party. Thought it would be pretty silly for them to say they want to withdraw, and then the members elect them anyway.ydoethur said:
And the '22 would do - what exactly? - if they reneged on it?kle4 said:
Apparently they may have had to sign something promising they won't do that if they get to the final two.biggles said:
If that’s the final two, I think it’s 50/50 Truss will drop a clanger and drop out.kle4 said:I really do worry about a Sunak vs Truss contest.
Not because I think he is the bee's knees or anything, but because Truss knows she is not as good at answering things and presenting herself, so she will just go hard on how she is the true Brexiter and belittle any attempt to discuss detail, as he will probably out debate her on such matters.
I'm just not sure she can drop any clanger big enough to ruin her chances against Sunak - she is the hard Brexiter's choice, many members don't like Rishi, and she is right she is an experienced minister, unlikely to make a devastating cock up.
Make them stand an extra round at Annie's Bar?0 -
My order of preference
Rishi Sunak- Strong and calm and mostly under attack
Liz Truss - Firm verging on agressive and nasty
Penny Mordaunt - Mostly vague, I've gotta serve somebody (Dylan)
Kemi Badenoch - Mostly vague. lacked impact, disappointing
Tom Tugendhat - All he has is that he was in the army
Rishi or Liz could run a Cabinet but Rishi would do it more by agreement and Liz by direction.1 -
She’s more relatable.Casino_Royale said:
Her appeal seems to be based solely on thatSunil_Prasannan said:I still fancy Penny the most
She just is.1 -
Rish! is a pr!ck0
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double whammy - show he has a sense of humour BUT also show he WAS IN THE ARMY againTheScreamingEagles said:Hah, Tom's got a sense of humour
https://twitter.com/TomTugendhat/status/15487466801321123873 -
Easier to have fun when you're not a true contender in the race. See many an ex-politician revealing how personable and funny they are after they leave office.TheScreamingEagles said:Hah, Tom's got a sense of humour
https://twitter.com/TomTugendhat/status/15487466801321123871 -
Hot weather like this has always happened. Someone posted the hottest temps going back a hundred years or so, and back in the early part of the 20th century there were 35 deg days on occasion.TimS said:There’s an oddly concerted, oddly standardised way in which Twitter posts rubbishing the heatwave are focusing on supposed “colour inflation” on BBC maps (which is hilariously wrong, the colours are redder because it’s hotter - colour scheme has hardly changed) and the comparison of “2 days” vs that Blitz of boomer weather lore, 1976.
Either all these people are having the same idea at once, and using the same painstakingly archived material, or there’s
something going on.
I suspect there’s something going on. How much did it cost, lads?
The difference is that climate change has shifted the dial a few degrees hotter, and hence what might have been mid thirties is likely to near or exceed 40.
But 1976 was different for longevity. The hot for the next 48 hours is a plume event, 76 was a very different thing.0 -
Leadsom on is very supportive of Mordaunt, as a mother would be.Benpointer said:
Didn't work so well for Leadsom v May.MaxPB said:
He'll play the family card a lot, especially against Penny. It will make him a lot more relatable than a 49 year old divorced person with no kids (and no chance of kids). You could see Rishi, Kemi and Liz all push the family/kids based stuff because it makes them a lot more relatable and in general voters like for politicians to have a family/kids.MrEd said:
Sunak's problem is not that he doesn't come across well, it is that he is too slick and won't understand people's concerns. What in tonight's debate provided evidence that addressed this?kle4 said:In order of debate performance
Sunak - mostly because he spoke the most and had to counter questions and attacks more, and largely did so well
Truss - Confident, direct, painted it as her vs Rishi
Kemi - Quieter, but when speaking mostly did well
Tugendhat - had some moments, but largely irrelevant
Mordaunt - Made no real impact
In order of debate winners
Truss - more substantial a figure than Mordaunt, and though she had some bad answers from my POV, nothing to sink her. From this I'd think she can overtake Mordaunt.
Sunak - Still comes across well, and dealt with attacks mostly ok. Solidified his position with MPs I think.
Tugendhat - was going nowhere and still is, so no change.
Kemi - did not grab attention, felt like a bystander
Mordaunt - eclipsed massively by Truss, had no standout moments.2 -
It's one positive attribute more than the others have got. Excluding Kemi.Casino_Royale said:
Her appeal seems to be based solely on thatSunil_Prasannan said:I still fancy Penny the most
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This is a great debate for Mordaunt! Unless there’s something disastrous in the second 15 minutes, I don’t see what the bad reviews are about.0
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Generally agreed.kle4 said:In order of debate performance
Sunak - mostly because he spoke the most and had to counter questions and attacks more, and largely did so well
Truss - Confident, direct, painted it as her vs Rishi
Kemi - Quieter, but when speaking mostly did well
Tugendhat - had some moments, but largely irrelevant
Mordaunt - Made no real impact
In order of debate winners
Truss - more substantial a figure than Mordaunt, and though she had some bad answers from my POV, nothing to sink her. From this I'd think she can overtake Mordaunt.
Sunak - Still comes across well, and dealt with attacks mostly ok. Solidified his position with MPs I think.
Tugendhat - was going nowhere and still is, so no change.
Kemi - did not grab attention, felt like a bystander
Mordaunt - eclipsed massively by Truss, had no standout moments.
Sunak is the only one who looks a serious candidate.
The Good Ship Penny seems to be at sea, and drifting.
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So, that Truss "why I am a Tory" speech - it was such bullshit. "I became a Tory because I saw kids at my school not getting on". Yes, with a Tory government. She then went to Uni. And joined the LibDems. very actively.
So no Liz, It Was A Lie.3 -
It may not be fair but that is life. Sunak's problem is that he was in charge of the Treasury. So when you are making decisions that impact people's income, such as putting up NI, your personal circumstances are going to be even more in the spotlight if you are a very rich individual with a wife that has / had non-Dom status etc.kle4 said:
I've never bought into the idea that slick presentation means you cannot understand peoples' concerns. I don't think politicians who imply such things believe it either, since they don't claim it if they/their leader presents well. It is just something they claim if they know they are not as good at presenting as their opponent, so it is fundamentally a dishonest attack when Rishi's counterparts imply it.MrEd said:
Sunak's problem is not that he doesn't come across well, it is that he is too slick and won't understand people's concerns. What in tonight's debate provided evidence that addressed this?kle4 said:In order of debate performance
Sunak - mostly because he spoke the most and had to counter questions and attacks more, and largely did so well
Truss - Confident, direct, painted it as her vs Rishi
Kemi - Quieter, but when speaking mostly did well
Tugendhat - had some moments, but largely irrelevant
Mordaunt - Made no real impact
In order of debate winners
Truss - more substantial a figure than Mordaunt, and though she had some bad answers from my POV, nothing to sink her. From this I'd think she can overtake Mordaunt.
Sunak - Still comes across well, and dealt with attacks mostly ok. Solidified his position with MPs I think.
Tugendhat - was going nowhere and still is, so no change.
Kemi - did not grab attention, felt like a bystander
Mordaunt - eclipsed massively by Truss, had no standout moments.
However, I agree that many do think that of Rishi (though I disagree it is because of his slickness), and agree he hasn't addressed that. How can he? If he says he understands people don't believe him.
Sunak is the candidate Labour would love to face because any decision that has an impact on people's finances - as almost all will - will be contrasted with his wealth and status. It will be a 24 hour shitfest about Rich-y Rishi. And there are plenty of people out there with whom that message will resonate.1 -
I didn't watch the debate again. I find these things excruciating. I am glad PM did a bit better, sad she still didn't set the world on fire.0
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Bluntly, I come back again to three of them making a tactical error by all going after Sunak. First, because they didn't really lay a glove on him, and second, because they gave him a chance to demonstrate the breadth of his knowledge of government.Pensfold said:My order of preference
Rishi Sunak- Strong and calm and mostly under attack
Liz Truss - Firm verging on agressive and nasty
Penny Mordaunt - Mostly vague, I've gotta serve somebody (Dylan)
Kemi Badenoch - Mostly vague. lacked impact, disappointing
Tom Tugendhat - All he has is that he was in the army
Rishi or Liz could run a Cabinet but Rishi would do it more by agreement and Liz by direction.
Tugendhat going after Mordaunt instead was interesting. It suggests, as I've speculated before, that his target is third and the Foreign Office. If Mordaunt crashes after tonight, he still has a decent chance of achieving that.0 -
I am not a Sunak fan (although think he will win ) but most people will want a PM who is slick, articulate and polished. Its only because we live in a social media world where everyone has to show vulnerability it is even considered by some a negativekle4 said:
I've never bought into the idea that slick presentation means you cannot understand peoples' concerns. I don't think politicians who imply such things believe it either, since they don't claim it if they/their leader presents well. It is just something they claim if they know they are not as good at presenting as their opponent, so it is fundamentally a dishonest attack when Rishi's counterparts imply it.MrEd said:
Sunak's problem is not that he doesn't come across well, it is that he is too slick and won't understand people's concerns. What in tonight's debate provided evidence that addressed this?kle4 said:In order of debate performance
Sunak - mostly because he spoke the most and had to counter questions and attacks more, and largely did so well
Truss - Confident, direct, painted it as her vs Rishi
Kemi - Quieter, but when speaking mostly did well
Tugendhat - had some moments, but largely irrelevant
Mordaunt - Made no real impact
In order of debate winners
Truss - more substantial a figure than Mordaunt, and though she had some bad answers from my POV, nothing to sink her. From this I'd think she can overtake Mordaunt.
Sunak - Still comes across well, and dealt with attacks mostly ok. Solidified his position with MPs I think.
Tugendhat - was going nowhere and still is, so no change.
Kemi - did not grab attention, felt like a bystander
Mordaunt - eclipsed massively by Truss, had no standout moments.
However, I agree that many do think that of Rishi (though I disagree it is because of his slickness), and agree he hasn't addressed that. How can he? If he says he understands people don't believe him.1 -
Maybe, but having kids absolutely makes him more relatable, even if the reality is that he probably sent his daughters to boarding school and had a nanny when they were home. Penny will struggle to relate to the "hard working family" of which voters all seem to be made up. Simply she isn't part of that demographic, older voters are also a bit suspicious of childless single women in the late 40s early 50s IMO and the Tory selectorate is older voters and her personal life will be put under a microscope in the run off.Gardenwalker said:
The problem though is that his family live in moon-suits in a climate-change ready bunker somewhere outside of San Jose.MaxPB said:
He'll play the family card a lot, especially against Penny. It will make him a lot more relatable than a 49 year old divorced person with no kids (and no chance of kids). You could see Rishi, Kemi and Liz all push the family/kids based stuff because it makes them a lot more relatable and in general voters like for politicians to have a family/kids.MrEd said:
Sunak's problem is not that he doesn't come across well, it is that he is too slick and won't understand people's concerns. What in tonight's debate provided evidence that addressed this?kle4 said:In order of debate performance
Sunak - mostly because he spoke the most and had to counter questions and attacks more, and largely did so well
Truss - Confident, direct, painted it as her vs Rishi
Kemi - Quieter, but when speaking mostly did well
Tugendhat - had some moments, but largely irrelevant
Mordaunt - Made no real impact
In order of debate winners
Truss - more substantial a figure than Mordaunt, and though she had some bad answers from my POV, nothing to sink her. From this I'd think she can overtake Mordaunt.
Sunak - Still comes across well, and dealt with attacks mostly ok. Solidified his position with MPs I think.
Tugendhat - was going nowhere and still is, so no change.
Kemi - did not grab attention, felt like a bystander
Mordaunt - eclipsed massively by Truss, had no standout moments.0 -
It’s possible Mordaunt could be overtaken by Truss tomorrow and this is why TT staying in has complicated things .
I’m pretty sure TT would endorse Mordaunt especially as she’s likely to be more re-assuring on defence spending and his supporters would want to stop Truss.
It would have been better to have Truss in 3rd place going into Tuesday’s vote , then it would have been all down to Badenochs supporters .2 -
That's the one who wants to abandon net zero.Luckyguy1983 said:I didn't watch the debate again. I find these things excruciating. I am glad PM did a bit better, sad she still didn't set the world on fire.
1 -
Was under a Labour LEA, though.RochdalePioneers said:So, that Truss "why I am a Tory" speech - it was such bullshit. "I became a Tory because I saw kids at my school not getting on". Yes, with a Tory government. She then went to Uni. And joined the LibDems. very actively.
So no Liz, It Was A Lie.
It’s a good story in my opinion, and a good contrast with Sunak.0 -
I think Sunak would be far better than Truss, although his sheer wealth opens obvious attack lines, and you just know he cannot really understand Jarvis Cocker. Truss, I fear may win the vote of the members, and I think she’s awful.CorrectHorseBattery said:
Are you well tubbs?turbotubbs said:
Sadly, I think you are right.CorrectHorseBattery said:I increasingly think it will be Truss vs Sunak
They’re both dream candidates for Labour0 -
Rishi clearly not interested in a pact with the Lib Dems since he likes attacking them0
-
Agreed. And despite going beserk it would be entirely appropriate for the purpose of the MP round of the contest - it is their job to present the best two candidates to the members, not to provide a broad choice to the members.HYUFD said:
If the last 3 are Penny, Rishi and Liz and Rishi was clearly in front in the penultimate round I expect him to lend some MPs to Penny to knock out Liz. The ERG would go beserk of course but it would probably be the best thing for Tory electability at the next general electionnumbertwelve said:I hope we still get Rishi and Penny as the final two because at least it keeps Liz Truss away from the membership. I suspect that Rishi would be able to mount a successful campaign against Penny now, given she hasn’t been able to clearly articulate her big picture. I worry about Rishi v Truss. I think she’d win.
That's the mistake Labour made.
I think it is too tricky to make work though. For one they'd need to judge it just right based on how the 4th place person's support would split, which is not easy. And for another it would be so obvious what he did that Sunak would look even more slippery, and probably torpedo his already poor chances with members.0 -
I agree, she was better than in the last debate, and is still one of the two frontrunners no doubt. I think it's largely that PB, generally quite cerebral and often with a bias towards the statistical, is fairly immune to her slightly more touchy-feely, metaphorically speaking, charms.bondegezou said:This is a great debate for Mordaunt! Unless there’s something disastrous in the second 15 minutes, I don’t see what the bad reviews are about.
3 -
Orka said:
29C at 8pm, central London
Tomorrow is going to be fearsome
Bedford, and Wittering both showing a 40°C Met Office forecast for Tuesday.
Both official Met Office stations, so we will be able to rely on the actual results.0 -
Different era of politics and the key learning from that is to talk positively about one's own family/kids experiences rather than negatively about the opponent not having had those. Automatically the focus will switch to that subject.Benpointer said:
Didn't work so well for Leadsom v May.MaxPB said:
He'll play the family card a lot, especially against Penny. It will make him a lot more relatable than a 49 year old divorced person with no kids (and no chance of kids). You could see Rishi, Kemi and Liz all push the family/kids based stuff because it makes them a lot more relatable and in general voters like for politicians to have a family/kids.MrEd said:
Sunak's problem is not that he doesn't come across well, it is that he is too slick and won't understand people's concerns. What in tonight's debate provided evidence that addressed this?kle4 said:In order of debate performance
Sunak - mostly because he spoke the most and had to counter questions and attacks more, and largely did so well
Truss - Confident, direct, painted it as her vs Rishi
Kemi - Quieter, but when speaking mostly did well
Tugendhat - had some moments, but largely irrelevant
Mordaunt - Made no real impact
In order of debate winners
Truss - more substantial a figure than Mordaunt, and though she had some bad answers from my POV, nothing to sink her. From this I'd think she can overtake Mordaunt.
Sunak - Still comes across well, and dealt with attacks mostly ok. Solidified his position with MPs I think.
Tugendhat - was going nowhere and still is, so no change.
Kemi - did not grab attention, felt like a bystander
Mordaunt - eclipsed massively by Truss, had no standout moments.0 -
I think PB sometimes has blind spots about what matters in politics. To help out, I'll mention two women told me today they fancied Sunak at least a little.2
-
Cannock put at 36 for Tuesday. That would definitely be a local record.Benpointer said:Orka said:29C at 8pm, central London
Tomorrow is going to be fearsome
Bedford, and Wittering both showing a 40°C Met Office forecast for Tuesday.
Both official Met Office stations, so we will be able to reply in the actual results.0 -
I do like attractive people, but I can only take it so far.Casino_Royale said:
Her appeal seems to be based solely on thatSunil_Prasannan said:I still fancy Penny the most
1 -
It is a bizarre statement. When you’re already liked by the ERG, surely you take that history as an excuse to reach out to LibDems or former LibDems? Nixon/China.RochdalePioneers said:So, that Truss "why I am a Tory" speech - it was such bullshit. "I became a Tory because I saw kids at my school not getting on". Yes, with a Tory government. She then went to Uni. And joined the LibDems. very actively.
So no Liz, It Was A Lie.0 -
42s and 43s still showing up in some modelsOrka said:29C at 8pm, central London
Tomorrow is going to be fearsome
https://community.netweather.tv/topic/97297-model-output-discussion-record-heat-arriving/page/192/#comments
0 -
Low 30s here in the NE on Mon/Tues. Pleasant.0
-
The same height as Prince, and he was a big hit with the ladies. If Sunak can bust out a guitar…MaxPB said:
They realise he's about 5'3" right?EPG said:I think PB sometimes has blind spots about what matters in politics. To help out, I'll mention two women told me today they fancied Sunak at least a little.
0 -
5 years - different era?! I know things move fast but, I don't think so.MaxPB said:
Different era of politics and the key learning from that is to talk positively about one's own family/kids experiences rather than negatively about the opponent not having had those. Automatically the focus will switch to that subject.Benpointer said:
Didn't work so well for Leadsom v May.MaxPB said:
He'll play the family card a lot, especially against Penny. It will make him a lot more relatable than a 49 year old divorced person with no kids (and no chance of kids). You could see Rishi, Kemi and Liz all push the family/kids based stuff because it makes them a lot more relatable and in general voters like for politicians to have a family/kids.MrEd said:
Sunak's problem is not that he doesn't come across well, it is that he is too slick and won't understand people's concerns. What in tonight's debate provided evidence that addressed this?kle4 said:In order of debate performance
Sunak - mostly because he spoke the most and had to counter questions and attacks more, and largely did so well
Truss - Confident, direct, painted it as her vs Rishi
Kemi - Quieter, but when speaking mostly did well
Tugendhat - had some moments, but largely irrelevant
Mordaunt - Made no real impact
In order of debate winners
Truss - more substantial a figure than Mordaunt, and though she had some bad answers from my POV, nothing to sink her. From this I'd think she can overtake Mordaunt.
Sunak - Still comes across well, and dealt with attacks mostly ok. Solidified his position with MPs I think.
Tugendhat - was going nowhere and still is, so no change.
Kemi - did not grab attention, felt like a bystander
Mordaunt - eclipsed massively by Truss, had no standout moments.
Also the though that mulit-millionaire banker Rishi Sunak will be able to apply the common touch by 'playing the family card' is truly laughable.
You live in a cocoon Max.0 -
The Tory poll rating?Gallowgate said:Low 30s here in the NE on Mon/Tues. Pleasant.
2 -
So she decided the reason her school was poor was the Labour LEA and not the Tory government, and thats what made her joinGardenwalker said:
Was under a Labour LEA, though.RochdalePioneers said:So, that Truss "why I am a Tory" speech - it was such bullshit. "I became a Tory because I saw kids at my school not getting on". Yes, with a Tory government. She then went to Uni. And joined the LibDems. very actively.
So no Liz, It Was A Lie.
It’s a good story in my opinion, and a good contrast with Sunak.the Toriesthe Lib Dems.
Its about as sincere as every other lie she tells.3 -
Is there any scenario where he's that far in front? He's still nearly 20 votes short, and there's no huge indication that he'd be way over the top. There is also polling suggesting he's got a better chance against Truss, and given it's likely to be close, he's surely better off trying to maximise his vote, so he can present himself as the clear favourite of MPs.HYUFD said:
If the last 3 are Penny, Rishi and Liz and Rishi was clearly in front in the penultimate round I expect him to lend some MPs to Penny to knock out Liz. The ERG would go beserk of course but it would probably be the best thing for Tory electability at the next general electionnumbertwelve said:I hope we still get Rishi and Penny as the final two because at least it keeps Liz Truss away from the membership. I suspect that Rishi would be able to mount a successful campaign against Penny now, given she hasn’t been able to clearly articulate her big picture. I worry about Rishi v Truss. I think she’d win.
He doesn't come across as someone who would take even the smallest risk to his own chances, in order to help the party.0 -
If it was a different era I guess the SNP can get that referendum after all.Benpointer said:
5 years - different era?! I know things move fast but, I don't think so.MaxPB said:
Different era of politics and the key learning from that is to talk positively about one's own family/kids experiences rather than negatively about the opponent not having had those. Automatically the focus will switch to that subject.Benpointer said:
Didn't work so well for Leadsom v May.MaxPB said:
He'll play the family card a lot, especially against Penny. It will make him a lot more relatable than a 49 year old divorced person with no kids (and no chance of kids). You could see Rishi, Kemi and Liz all push the family/kids based stuff because it makes them a lot more relatable and in general voters like for politicians to have a family/kids.MrEd said:
Sunak's problem is not that he doesn't come across well, it is that he is too slick and won't understand people's concerns. What in tonight's debate provided evidence that addressed this?kle4 said:In order of debate performance
Sunak - mostly because he spoke the most and had to counter questions and attacks more, and largely did so well
Truss - Confident, direct, painted it as her vs Rishi
Kemi - Quieter, but when speaking mostly did well
Tugendhat - had some moments, but largely irrelevant
Mordaunt - Made no real impact
In order of debate winners
Truss - more substantial a figure than Mordaunt, and though she had some bad answers from my POV, nothing to sink her. From this I'd think she can overtake Mordaunt.
Sunak - Still comes across well, and dealt with attacks mostly ok. Solidified his position with MPs I think.
Tugendhat - was going nowhere and still is, so no change.
Kemi - did not grab attention, felt like a bystander
Mordaunt - eclipsed massively by Truss, had no standout moments.1 -
It’s a cross that those of us who are gorgeous have to bear.kle4 said:
I do like attractive people, but I can only take it so far.Casino_Royale said:
Her appeal seems to be based solely on thatSunil_Prasannan said:I still fancy Penny the most
2 -
I like her too - but she's not bright or focused enough to be a good PM imo.nico679 said:Penny doesn’t really stand for much but she looks good and has a calm manner which is quite comforting . I like her voice and I think world leaders would be somewhat star struck when they meet her .
Not sure what the big deal is on a lack of detail , get a good team and job done .
Perhaps her Bondish Money Penny styling is clouding my judgement !0 -
Liz saw the damage the Tories had done to education and loved it so joined them !2
-
I am Labour and I can assure you this is not right. The one we want is Truss.MrEd said:
It may not be fair but that is life. Sunak's problem is that he was in charge of the Treasury. So when you are making decisions that impact people's income, such as putting up NI, your personal circumstances are going to be even more in the spotlight if you are a very rich individual with a wife that has / had non-Dom status etc.kle4 said:
I've never bought into the idea that slick presentation means you cannot understand peoples' concerns. I don't think politicians who imply such things believe it either, since they don't claim it if they/their leader presents well. It is just something they claim if they know they are not as good at presenting as their opponent, so it is fundamentally a dishonest attack when Rishi's counterparts imply it.MrEd said:
Sunak's problem is not that he doesn't come across well, it is that he is too slick and won't understand people's concerns. What in tonight's debate provided evidence that addressed this?kle4 said:In order of debate performance
Sunak - mostly because he spoke the most and had to counter questions and attacks more, and largely did so well
Truss - Confident, direct, painted it as her vs Rishi
Kemi - Quieter, but when speaking mostly did well
Tugendhat - had some moments, but largely irrelevant
Mordaunt - Made no real impact
In order of debate winners
Truss - more substantial a figure than Mordaunt, and though she had some bad answers from my POV, nothing to sink her. From this I'd think she can overtake Mordaunt.
Sunak - Still comes across well, and dealt with attacks mostly ok. Solidified his position with MPs I think.
Tugendhat - was going nowhere and still is, so no change.
Kemi - did not grab attention, felt like a bystander
Mordaunt - eclipsed massively by Truss, had no standout moments.
However, I agree that many do think that of Rishi (though I disagree it is because of his slickness), and agree he hasn't addressed that. How can he? If he says he understands people don't believe him.
Sunak is the candidate Labour would love to face because any decision that has an impact on people's finances - as almost all will - will be contrasted with his wealth and status. It will be a 24 hour shitfest about Rich-y Rishi. And there are plenty of people out there with whom that message will resonate.1 -
Netweather. Fiction.IshmaelZ said:
42s and 43s still showing up in some modelsOrka said:29C at 8pm, central London
Tomorrow is going to be fearsome
https://community.netweather.tv/topic/97297-model-output-discussion-record-heat-arriving/page/192/#comments0 -
I get what you’re saying . But our choices are limited given it’s only one of three . If Truss becomes PM it would be a tragedy for the country .kinabalu said:
I like her too - but she's not bright or focused enough to be a good PM imo.nico679 said:Penny doesn’t really stand for much but she looks good and has a calm manner which is quite comforting . I like her voice and I think world leaders would be somewhat star struck when they meet her .
Not sure what the big deal is on a lack of detail , get a good team and job done .
Perhaps her Bondish Money Penny styling is clouding my judgement !
1 -
Is she a liar?RochdalePioneers said:
So she decided the reason her school was poor was the Labour LEA and not the Tory government, and thats what made her joinGardenwalker said:
Was under a Labour LEA, though.RochdalePioneers said:So, that Truss "why I am a Tory" speech - it was such bullshit. "I became a Tory because I saw kids at my school not getting on". Yes, with a Tory government. She then went to Uni. And joined the LibDems. very actively.
So no Liz, It Was A Lie.
It’s a good story in my opinion, and a good contrast with Sunak.the Toriesthe Lib Dems.
Its about as sincere as every other lie she tells.
My issue with Liz is largely that I disagree with her “Britannia Unchained” ideology, that her Thatcher cosplay is nauseating, and that she’s been willing to spout Brexit nonsense like a zealot.
I don’t find her deceitful, especially.0 -
Yes 76 was a terrible year to be doing O levels. It still rankles that I only got a B in history.turbotubbs said:
Hot weather like this has always happened. Someone posted the hottest temps going back a hundred years or so, and back in the early part of the 20th century there were 35 deg days on occasion.TimS said:There’s an oddly concerted, oddly standardised way in which Twitter posts rubbishing the heatwave are focusing on supposed “colour inflation” on BBC maps (which is hilariously wrong, the colours are redder because it’s hotter - colour scheme has hardly changed) and the comparison of “2 days” vs that Blitz of boomer weather lore, 1976.
Either all these people are having the same idea at once, and using the same painstakingly archived material, or there’s
something going on.
I suspect there’s something going on. How much did it cost, lads?
The difference is that climate change has shifted the dial a few degrees hotter, and hence what might have been mid thirties is likely to near or exceed 40.
But 1976 was different for longevity. The hot for the next 48 hours is a plume event, 76 was a very different thing.2 -
He is 2% ahead of Mordaunt but trails Truss by 7% with Conhome today, never mind the party's electability it might be the only way he can win the membership votenova said:
Is there any scenario where he's that far in front? He's still nearly 20 votes short, and there's no huge indication that he'd be way over the top. There is also polling suggesting he's got a better chance against Truss, and given it's likely to be close, he's surely better off trying to maximise his vote, so he can present himself as the clear favourite of MPs.HYUFD said:
If the last 3 are Penny, Rishi and Liz and Rishi was clearly in front in the penultimate round I expect him to lend some MPs to Penny to knock out Liz. The ERG would go beserk of course but it would probably be the best thing for Tory electability at the next general electionnumbertwelve said:I hope we still get Rishi and Penny as the final two because at least it keeps Liz Truss away from the membership. I suspect that Rishi would be able to mount a successful campaign against Penny now, given she hasn’t been able to clearly articulate her big picture. I worry about Rishi v Truss. I think she’d win.
He doesn't come across as someone who would take even the smallest risk to his own chances, in order to help the party.0 -
MrEd loves to pretend he knows about Labour politics but has been shown to be a nonsense speaker before. I don’t think he’s ever met a Labour member.kinabalu said:
I am Labour and I can assure you this is not right. The one we want is Truss.MrEd said:
It may not be fair but that is life. Sunak's problem is that he was in charge of the Treasury. So when you are making decisions that impact people's income, such as putting up NI, your personal circumstances are going to be even more in the spotlight if you are a very rich individual with a wife that has / had non-Dom status etc.kle4 said:
I've never bought into the idea that slick presentation means you cannot understand peoples' concerns. I don't think politicians who imply such things believe it either, since they don't claim it if they/their leader presents well. It is just something they claim if they know they are not as good at presenting as their opponent, so it is fundamentally a dishonest attack when Rishi's counterparts imply it.MrEd said:
Sunak's problem is not that he doesn't come across well, it is that he is too slick and won't understand people's concerns. What in tonight's debate provided evidence that addressed this?kle4 said:In order of debate performance
Sunak - mostly because he spoke the most and had to counter questions and attacks more, and largely did so well
Truss - Confident, direct, painted it as her vs Rishi
Kemi - Quieter, but when speaking mostly did well
Tugendhat - had some moments, but largely irrelevant
Mordaunt - Made no real impact
In order of debate winners
Truss - more substantial a figure than Mordaunt, and though she had some bad answers from my POV, nothing to sink her. From this I'd think she can overtake Mordaunt.
Sunak - Still comes across well, and dealt with attacks mostly ok. Solidified his position with MPs I think.
Tugendhat - was going nowhere and still is, so no change.
Kemi - did not grab attention, felt like a bystander
Mordaunt - eclipsed massively by Truss, had no standout moments.
However, I agree that many do think that of Rishi (though I disagree it is because of his slickness), and agree he hasn't addressed that. How can he? If he says he understands people don't believe him.
Sunak is the candidate Labour would love to face because any decision that has an impact on people's finances - as almost all will - will be contrasted with his wealth and status. It will be a 24 hour shitfest about Rich-y Rishi. And there are plenty of people out there with whom that message will resonate.1 -
I still don’t get how Sunak can claim a fresh start having been chancellor for two years and carrying points on his licence (FPN).2
-
Truss is a gift to Labour and Lib Dems, SNP too. Johnson without the jokes and personality.kinabalu said:
I am Labour and I can assure you this is not right. The one we want is Truss.MrEd said:
It may not be fair but that is life. Sunak's problem is that he was in charge of the Treasury. So when you are making decisions that impact people's income, such as putting up NI, your personal circumstances are going to be even more in the spotlight if you are a very rich individual with a wife that has / had non-Dom status etc.kle4 said:
I've never bought into the idea that slick presentation means you cannot understand peoples' concerns. I don't think politicians who imply such things believe it either, since they don't claim it if they/their leader presents well. It is just something they claim if they know they are not as good at presenting as their opponent, so it is fundamentally a dishonest attack when Rishi's counterparts imply it.MrEd said:
Sunak's problem is not that he doesn't come across well, it is that he is too slick and won't understand people's concerns. What in tonight's debate provided evidence that addressed this?kle4 said:In order of debate performance
Sunak - mostly because he spoke the most and had to counter questions and attacks more, and largely did so well
Truss - Confident, direct, painted it as her vs Rishi
Kemi - Quieter, but when speaking mostly did well
Tugendhat - had some moments, but largely irrelevant
Mordaunt - Made no real impact
In order of debate winners
Truss - more substantial a figure than Mordaunt, and though she had some bad answers from my POV, nothing to sink her. From this I'd think she can overtake Mordaunt.
Sunak - Still comes across well, and dealt with attacks mostly ok. Solidified his position with MPs I think.
Tugendhat - was going nowhere and still is, so no change.
Kemi - did not grab attention, felt like a bystander
Mordaunt - eclipsed massively by Truss, had no standout moments.
However, I agree that many do think that of Rishi (though I disagree it is because of his slickness), and agree he hasn't addressed that. How can he? If he says he understands people don't believe him.
Sunak is the candidate Labour would love to face because any decision that has an impact on people's finances - as almost all will - will be contrasted with his wealth and status. It will be a 24 hour shitfest about Rich-y Rishi. And there are plenty of people out there with whom that message will resonate.
Liz Is Crap Is Prime Minister.3 -
Lucky you - I got a D, same year. Probably not helped by the fact that I went fishing all night the night before the exam.gettingbetter said:
Yes 76 was a terrible year to be doing O levels. It still rankles that I only got a B in history.turbotubbs said:
Hot weather like this has always happened. Someone posted the hottest temps going back a hundred years or so, and back in the early part of the 20th century there were 35 deg days on occasion.TimS said:There’s an oddly concerted, oddly standardised way in which Twitter posts rubbishing the heatwave are focusing on supposed “colour inflation” on BBC maps (which is hilariously wrong, the colours are redder because it’s hotter - colour scheme has hardly changed) and the comparison of “2 days” vs that Blitz of boomer weather lore, 1976.
Either all these people are having the same idea at once, and using the same painstakingly archived material, or there’s
something going on.
I suspect there’s something going on. How much did it cost, lads?
The difference is that climate change has shifted the dial a few degrees hotter, and hence what might have been mid thirties is likely to near or exceed 40.
But 1976 was different for longevity. The hot for the next 48 hours is a plume event, 76 was a very different thing.3 -
I hadn't realized Tom Tugendhat used to be in the army.9
-
Horse loves to pretend he knows about me. I was a Labour member during the early Cameron years and met many. I have actually more friends and acquaintances who are left-leaning than right.CorrectHorseBattery said:
MrEd loves to pretend he knows about Labour politics but has been shown to be a nonsense speaker before. I don’t think he’s ever met a Labour member.kinabalu said:
I am Labour and I can assure you this is not right. The one we want is Truss.MrEd said:
It may not be fair but that is life. Sunak's problem is that he was in charge of the Treasury. So when you are making decisions that impact people's income, such as putting up NI, your personal circumstances are going to be even more in the spotlight if you are a very rich individual with a wife that has / had non-Dom status etc.kle4 said:
I've never bought into the idea that slick presentation means you cannot understand peoples' concerns. I don't think politicians who imply such things believe it either, since they don't claim it if they/their leader presents well. It is just something they claim if they know they are not as good at presenting as their opponent, so it is fundamentally a dishonest attack when Rishi's counterparts imply it.MrEd said:
Sunak's problem is not that he doesn't come across well, it is that he is too slick and won't understand people's concerns. What in tonight's debate provided evidence that addressed this?kle4 said:In order of debate performance
Sunak - mostly because he spoke the most and had to counter questions and attacks more, and largely did so well
Truss - Confident, direct, painted it as her vs Rishi
Kemi - Quieter, but when speaking mostly did well
Tugendhat - had some moments, but largely irrelevant
Mordaunt - Made no real impact
In order of debate winners
Truss - more substantial a figure than Mordaunt, and though she had some bad answers from my POV, nothing to sink her. From this I'd think she can overtake Mordaunt.
Sunak - Still comes across well, and dealt with attacks mostly ok. Solidified his position with MPs I think.
Tugendhat - was going nowhere and still is, so no change.
Kemi - did not grab attention, felt like a bystander
Mordaunt - eclipsed massively by Truss, had no standout moments.
However, I agree that many do think that of Rishi (though I disagree it is because of his slickness), and agree he hasn't addressed that. How can he? If he says he understands people don't believe him.
Sunak is the candidate Labour would love to face because any decision that has an impact on people's finances - as almost all will - will be contrasted with his wealth and status. It will be a 24 hour shitfest about Rich-y Rishi. And there are plenty of people out there with whom that message will resonate.
I do like you Horse but you do talk some Horse Shit sometimes.0 -
Scottish Tories are united: it can’t be Liz Truss
Choosing Liz Truss as the next Conservative leader could set back the prospects of a recovery for the party in Scotland and undermine the Union, according to some of its leading lights north of the border.
With five candidates left, Scottish parliamentarians are split over who to support. However, the foreign secretary appears the least favoured so far among the six MPs and 31 MSPs. Sources said she was “too close to Boris”, “too right wing” and had “nothing particularly new to offer”.
€
Times0 -
38 for me in Leicester, but not until late afternoon. Should be OK.Benpointer said:
Netweather. Fiction.IshmaelZ said:
42s and 43s still showing up in some modelsOrka said:29C at 8pm, central London
Tomorrow is going to be fearsome
https://community.netweather.tv/topic/97297-model-output-discussion-record-heat-arriving/page/192/#comments
Time to soak the pots and hanging baskets.0 -
+1
This is not a good debate for Tugendhat. Much better for Truss and Mordaunt. Badenoch weaker than on Friday. Sunak still the frontrunner.
Surely Tom then Kemi are going out, so it depends on the transfers. I still think Truss is better placed on transfers, even though Mordaunt is the better performer, so it’s Sunak v Truss. I don’t know what happens then.1 -
I have voted Tory in GEs for decades. With Boris around and Jezza gone I would vote Labour. Nothing I have heard so far would clearly shift me from Labour in its present fairly centrist mode.CorrectHorseBattery said:
Are you well tubbs?turbotubbs said:
Sadly, I think you are right.CorrectHorseBattery said:I increasingly think it will be Truss vs Sunak
They’re both dream candidates for Labour
Of the five candidates:
Rishi: Tainted by association, and didn't resign in time. No.
Truss: Just No.
Mordaunt: Gives no reason to shift from a centrist Labour vote. No.
Hat: Would pay attention, but with a bias against; but he can't win.
Kemi: I would consider the options from the beginning. Everything in politics would change.0 -
If "Jen" in "The IT Crowd" could be head of the IT Dept without knowing squat about computers, then surely "Penny" of "The BJ Crowd" can be head of the Con Govt.kinabalu said:
I like her too - but she's not bright or focused enough to be a good PM imo.nico679 said:Penny doesn’t really stand for much but she looks good and has a calm manner which is quite comforting . I like her voice and I think world leaders would be somewhat star struck when they meet her .
Not sure what the big deal is on a lack of detail , get a good team and job done .
Perhaps her Bondish Money Penny styling is clouding my judgement !1 -
Thanks for the egg sucking instructions, but you’re completely missing the point of my post.turbotubbs said:
Hot weather like this has always happened. Someone posted the hottest temps going back a hundred years or so, and back in the early part of the 20th century there were 35 deg days on occasion.TimS said:There’s an oddly concerted, oddly standardised way in which Twitter posts rubbishing the heatwave are focusing on supposed “colour inflation” on BBC maps (which is hilariously wrong, the colours are redder because it’s hotter - colour scheme has hardly changed) and the comparison of “2 days” vs that Blitz of boomer weather lore, 1976.
Either all these people are having the same idea at once, and using the same painstakingly archived material, or there’s
something going on.
I suspect there’s something going on. How much did it cost, lads?
The difference is that climate change has shifted the dial a few degrees hotter, and hence what might have been mid thirties is likely to near or exceed 40.
But 1976 was different for longevity. The hot for the next 48 hours is a plume event, 76 was
a very different thing.
But then again perhaps the similarity of your reply to the general gist of those Twitter posts suggests I was wrong and this is just an organic thing rather than anything organised.
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I think Labour will be reasonably content with Truss, Sunak or Mordaunt.
They’d probably prefer Truss, but Rishi is offering nothing except the highest taxes in 70 years and is not supported by a large chunk of his own party.
Mordaunt, meanwhile, could surprise on the upside, but chances of her self-destructing seem high.
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But she didn't even do that! her response to the Tory government blameless for her school situation was to join the LibDems. Which as she said is why she is a True Tory.nico679 said:Liz saw the damage the Tories had done to education and loved it so joined them !
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I didn't say you wouldn't want Truss. I agree you would and she would be poor as well. But, as the by-elections results show at local and Parliamentary level, Labour hasn't sealed the deal in the Red Wall seats. Sunak as PM would make that a lot easier.kinabalu said:
I am Labour and I can assure you this is not right. The one we want is Truss.MrEd said:
It may not be fair but that is life. Sunak's problem is that he was in charge of the Treasury. So when you are making decisions that impact people's income, such as putting up NI, your personal circumstances are going to be even more in the spotlight if you are a very rich individual with a wife that has / had non-Dom status etc.kle4 said:
I've never bought into the idea that slick presentation means you cannot understand peoples' concerns. I don't think politicians who imply such things believe it either, since they don't claim it if they/their leader presents well. It is just something they claim if they know they are not as good at presenting as their opponent, so it is fundamentally a dishonest attack when Rishi's counterparts imply it.MrEd said:
Sunak's problem is not that he doesn't come across well, it is that he is too slick and won't understand people's concerns. What in tonight's debate provided evidence that addressed this?kle4 said:In order of debate performance
Sunak - mostly because he spoke the most and had to counter questions and attacks more, and largely did so well
Truss - Confident, direct, painted it as her vs Rishi
Kemi - Quieter, but when speaking mostly did well
Tugendhat - had some moments, but largely irrelevant
Mordaunt - Made no real impact
In order of debate winners
Truss - more substantial a figure than Mordaunt, and though she had some bad answers from my POV, nothing to sink her. From this I'd think she can overtake Mordaunt.
Sunak - Still comes across well, and dealt with attacks mostly ok. Solidified his position with MPs I think.
Tugendhat - was going nowhere and still is, so no change.
Kemi - did not grab attention, felt like a bystander
Mordaunt - eclipsed massively by Truss, had no standout moments.
However, I agree that many do think that of Rishi (though I disagree it is because of his slickness), and agree he hasn't addressed that. How can he? If he says he understands people don't believe him.
Sunak is the candidate Labour would love to face because any decision that has an impact on people's finances - as almost all will - will be contrasted with his wealth and status. It will be a 24 hour shitfest about Rich-y Rishi. And there are plenty of people out there with whom that message will resonate.0 -
I hope you’re right. I’d feel tremendously more comfortable knowing that either Sunak or Mordaunt were going to be PM than the risk of Liz Truss.WhisperingOracle said:
I agree, she was better than in the last debate, and is still one of the two frontrunners no doubt. I think it's largely that PB, generally quite cerebral and often with a bias towards the statistical, is fairly immune to her slightly more touchy-feely, metaphorically speaking, charms.bondegezou said:This is a great debate for Mordaunt! Unless there’s something disastrous in the second 15 minutes, I don’t see what the bad reviews are about.
Personally I think Penny comes across as very likeable but my concern is that she doesn’t seem to have a clear grasp of the issues and struggles to be incisive. She may be ok leading a collaborative cabinet government if it was fairly new to power but given we are 12 years into Tory government my suspicion is that the Party will start infighting and she won’t be able to stop them, and will go into the next election rudderless and indecisive.
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Did all those saying Truss did better watch the same thing as me?! Does no one have anything to say about her praising the Bank of Japan for “keeping inflation low”? What a helmet. All those years round Cabinet and her grasp of economics is frighteningly poor.0
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That's true, but its hilarious to me that Liz is running as the continuity Boris candidate, and backed as such, when Sunak is the one defending the decisions of the Boris government on tax.Jonathan said:I still don’t get how Sunak can claim a fresh start having been chancellor for two years and carrying points on his licence (FPN).
She's basically saying the last government was awesome, but Rishi is terrible because he would continue the policies of that government.3 -
Truss is political marmite and a bit odd, but - and it’s a big but - she’s apparently the only one amongst this lot with any coherent political philosophy. In the circumstances of the next two years, that conviction could well help her stay the course, whereas others could well be blown off course.Foxy said:
Truss is a gift to Labour and Lib Dems, SNP too. Johnson without the jokes and personality.kinabalu said:
I am Labour and I can assure you this is not right. The one we want is Truss.MrEd said:
It may not be fair but that is life. Sunak's problem is that he was in charge of the Treasury. So when you are making decisions that impact people's income, such as putting up NI, your personal circumstances are going to be even more in the spotlight if you are a very rich individual with a wife that has / had non-Dom status etc.kle4 said:
I've never bought into the idea that slick presentation means you cannot understand peoples' concerns. I don't think politicians who imply such things believe it either, since they don't claim it if they/their leader presents well. It is just something they claim if they know they are not as good at presenting as their opponent, so it is fundamentally a dishonest attack when Rishi's counterparts imply it.MrEd said:
Sunak's problem is not that he doesn't come across well, it is that he is too slick and won't understand people's concerns. What in tonight's debate provided evidence that addressed this?kle4 said:In order of debate performance
Sunak - mostly because he spoke the most and had to counter questions and attacks more, and largely did so well
Truss - Confident, direct, painted it as her vs Rishi
Kemi - Quieter, but when speaking mostly did well
Tugendhat - had some moments, but largely irrelevant
Mordaunt - Made no real impact
In order of debate winners
Truss - more substantial a figure than Mordaunt, and though she had some bad answers from my POV, nothing to sink her. From this I'd think she can overtake Mordaunt.
Sunak - Still comes across well, and dealt with attacks mostly ok. Solidified his position with MPs I think.
Tugendhat - was going nowhere and still is, so no change.
Kemi - did not grab attention, felt like a bystander
Mordaunt - eclipsed massively by Truss, had no standout moments.
However, I agree that many do think that of Rishi (though I disagree it is because of his slickness), and agree he hasn't addressed that. How can he? If he says he understands people don't believe him.
Sunak is the candidate Labour would love to face because any decision that has an impact on people's finances - as almost all will - will be contrasted with his wealth and status. It will be a 24 hour shitfest about Rich-y Rishi. And there are plenty of people out there with whom that message will resonate.
Liz Is Crap Is Prime Minister.0 -
I am confused. I thought, MrEd, that you were a horse, named after https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mister_EdMrEd said:
Horse loves to pretend he knows about me. I was a Labour member during the early Cameron years and met many. I have actually more friends and acquaintances who are left-leaning than right.CorrectHorseBattery said:
MrEd loves to pretend he knows about Labour politics but has been shown to be a nonsense speaker before. I don’t think he’s ever met a Labour member.kinabalu said:
I am Labour and I can assure you this is not right. The one we want is Truss.MrEd said:
It may not be fair but that is life. Sunak's problem is that he was in charge of the Treasury. So when you are making decisions that impact people's income, such as putting up NI, your personal circumstances are going to be even more in the spotlight if you are a very rich individual with a wife that has / had non-Dom status etc.kle4 said:
I've never bought into the idea that slick presentation means you cannot understand peoples' concerns. I don't think politicians who imply such things believe it either, since they don't claim it if they/their leader presents well. It is just something they claim if they know they are not as good at presenting as their opponent, so it is fundamentally a dishonest attack when Rishi's counterparts imply it.MrEd said:
Sunak's problem is not that he doesn't come across well, it is that he is too slick and won't understand people's concerns. What in tonight's debate provided evidence that addressed this?kle4 said:In order of debate performance
Sunak - mostly because he spoke the most and had to counter questions and attacks more, and largely did so well
Truss - Confident, direct, painted it as her vs Rishi
Kemi - Quieter, but when speaking mostly did well
Tugendhat - had some moments, but largely irrelevant
Mordaunt - Made no real impact
In order of debate winners
Truss - more substantial a figure than Mordaunt, and though she had some bad answers from my POV, nothing to sink her. From this I'd think she can overtake Mordaunt.
Sunak - Still comes across well, and dealt with attacks mostly ok. Solidified his position with MPs I think.
Tugendhat - was going nowhere and still is, so no change.
Kemi - did not grab attention, felt like a bystander
Mordaunt - eclipsed massively by Truss, had no standout moments.
However, I agree that many do think that of Rishi (though I disagree it is because of his slickness), and agree he hasn't addressed that. How can he? If he says he understands people don't believe him.
Sunak is the candidate Labour would love to face because any decision that has an impact on people's finances - as almost all will - will be contrasted with his wealth and status. It will be a 24 hour shitfest about Rich-y Rishi. And there are plenty of people out there with whom that message will resonate.
I do like you Horse but you do talk some Horse Shit sometimes.
Whereas CHB is clearly a *battery*, not a horse.1 -
Indeed, Mordaunt as PM front woman with Sunak as Chancellor, Tugendhat as Foreign Secretary and Davis as Home Secretary would be fine, maybe Truss at Business and Badenoch as Party Chairman.SeaShantyIrish2 said:
If "Jen" in "The IT Crowd" could be head of the IT Dept without knowing squat about computers, then surely "Penny" of "The BJ Crowd" can be head of the Con Govt.kinabalu said:
I like her too - but she's not bright or focused enough to be a good PM imo.nico679 said:Penny doesn’t really stand for much but she looks good and has a calm manner which is quite comforting . I like her voice and I think world leaders would be somewhat star struck when they meet her .
Not sure what the big deal is on a lack of detail , get a good team and job done .
Perhaps her Bondish Money Penny styling is clouding my judgement !
A lot of the PM role is about setting the right direction and selling your government to the country, Reagan was no intellectual but had a top Cabinet full of heavyweights and a brilliant salesman. Brown was also brighter than Blair but Blair was the better PM, Brown more suited to the detail of Chancellor6
