Killer question from Rishi asking Liz which she regretted more 'having been a LD or voted Remain'
Now, Mr HY, you’ve been a remainer and you voted Plaid Cymru….
I am not running for Tory leader now and I was never a member of another party nor did I ever not vote for Tory candidates on the ballot paper at every election I have voted in
Badenoch really going for a broader audience here - attacking fraud. Truss also quite interesting as someone who used not to be a Tory. Sunak keeps trying to talk over the moderator, but now looks confident. Mordaunt shakier and playing the victim card.
Mordaunt also asks her question to Sunak. Do they all see him as the one to beat? It’s a good tactic to go after the frontrunner, but it also gives Sunak more screen time.
Ah, but Tugendhat asks his question to Mordaunt! His is the least interesting question. The others went for the jugular.
(You wouldn’t know Truss is younger than Mordaunt.)
They see that being seen to be the one to beat him is important to get into the final two.
Mordaunt also asks her question to Sunak. Do they all see him as the one to beat? It’s a good tactic to go after the frontrunner, but it also gives Sunak more screen time.
Ah, but Tugendhat asks his question to Mordaunt! His is the least interesting question. The others went for the jugular.
(You wouldn’t know Truss is younger than Mordaunt.)
Its desperation. Sunak head and shoulders above the lot of them, and they keep giving him more time to bat away their whines.
Come on Tories, just get this done. Smack Sunak up to 200 votes and end the contest.
Ouch, that's a truly nasty question from Sunak, very spiteful.
Truss trying to get back over education, overlooking that she was a Lib Dem at uni.
FFS, mentioning the maths gcse though, that's been an absolute catastrophe. Doesn't work on any level at all, including setting up for further study. Also not reliable in the marking. Never mention that as it's a serious black mark.
Truss was schooled, mainly, under the Tories as well. So any lack of opportunity is down to them.
Comprehensive schoolgirl from a Labour Council, with a Labour LEA.
Oh come on Penny, I know you have a slogan about leaderhship being about the ship, but the contest is about the leader, so of course the debate was about you!
Mordaunt also asks her question to Sunak. Do they all see him as the one to beat? It’s a good tactic to go after the frontrunner, but it also gives Sunak more screen time.
Ah, but Tugendhat asks his question to Mordaunt! His is the least interesting question. The others went for the jugular.
(You wouldn’t know Truss is younger than Mordaunt.)
Its desperation. Sunak head and shoulders above the lot of them, and they keep giving him more time to bat away their whines.
Come on Tories, just get this done. Smack Sunak up to 200 votes and end the contest.
I agree that Sunak is the adult in the room. But he also needs to win against someone in the party. Or he will be weaker going forward. No coronation but a comfortable win with the membership.
Just watching the closing statements. Rishi was good, Penny not so good, Tommy Tug a bit bland, Liz definitely playing the experience card against Kemi, Kemi playing the kids card - shitting on Penny I guess, bit bland otherwise.
Ouch, that's a truly nasty question from Sunak, very spiteful.
Truss trying to get back over education, overlooking that she was a Lib Dem at uni.
FFS, mentioning the maths gcse though, that's been an absolute catastrophe. Doesn't work on any level at all, including setting up for further study. Also not reliable in the marking. Never mention that as it's a serious black mark.
Truss was schooled, mainly, under the Tories as well. So any lack of opportunity is down to them.
Comprehensive schoolgirl from a Labour Council, with a Labour LEA.
Got into Oxford and into Parliament though, so perhaps was well taught after all.
Oh come on Penny, I know you have a slogan about leaderhship being about the ship, but the contest is about the leader, so of course the debate was about you!
Having now seen more of all of the candidates I’m afraid I’m coming to the conclusion that they are going to have to go with Rishi and see how the cards fall
Truss cannot win over the country. Badenoch is too green. Penny is likeable, but lacks incisiveness and grit.
Sunak at least gives the impression of being able to manage the business of government and being able to present to the public , even though he is a deeply flawed candidate.
Final statements: Sunak strong and professional. Modaunt freezes and then says something brief I've already forgotten. Truss solid but full fat Conservative. Badenoch quite touching.
Am I the only one who finds Truss' speaking manner really, really irritating? Whiny and a poor voice.
I said earlier Truss sounds French with her short phrases of regular length, interspersed with pauses. But there might be another explanation: is she a smoker who gets short of breath?
That'll happen IF you hit the bong bit too frequently.
Ouch, that's a truly nasty question from Sunak, very spiteful.
Truss trying to get back over education, overlooking that she was a Lib Dem at uni.
FFS, mentioning the maths gcse though, that's been an absolute catastrophe. Doesn't work on any level at all, including setting up for further study. Also not reliable in the marking. Never mention that as it's a serious black mark.
Truss was schooled, mainly, under the Tories as well. So any lack of opportunity is down to them.
Comprehensive schoolgirl from a Labour Council, with a Labour LEA.
Got into Oxford and into Parliament though, so perhaps was well taught after all.
Mordaunt also asks her question to Sunak. Do they all see him as the one to beat? It’s a good tactic to go after the frontrunner, but it also gives Sunak more screen time.
Ah, but Tugendhat asks his question to Mordaunt! His is the least interesting question. The others went for the jugular.
(You wouldn’t know Truss is younger than Mordaunt.)
Its desperation. Sunak head and shoulders above the lot of them, and they keep giving him more time to bat away their whines.
Come on Tories, just get this done. Smack Sunak up to 200 votes and end the contest.
I agree that Sunak is the adult in the room. But he also needs to win against someone in the party. Or he will be weaker going forward. No coronation but a comfortable win with the membership.
If this drags on into August two things happen which are bad for the party: 1. Weeks of internal infighting which will get nastier than ever. 2. Bonzo Dog continues to lead the Doodah Band in not governing.
A long spell of no government despite the growing crises whilst the party says "you must wait, we are too busy trying to kill each other". And then will try and claim unity and majesty and responsibility.
Sunak - mostly because he spoke the most and had to counter questions and attacks more, and largely did so well Truss - Confident, direct, painted it as her vs Rishi Kemi - Quieter, but when speaking mostly did well Tugendhat - had some moments, but largely irrelevant Mordaunt - Made no real impact
In order of debate winners
Truss - more substantial a figure than Mordaunt, and though she had some bad answers from my POV, nothing to sink her. From this I'd think she can overtake Mordaunt. Sunak - Still comes across well, and dealt with attacks mostly ok. Solidified his position with MPs I think. Tugendhat - was going nowhere and still is, so no change. Kemi - did not grab attention, felt like a bystander Mordaunt - eclipsed massively by Truss, had no standout moments.
Starmer is sooo boring and unscary. Billed as forensic prosecutor which always looked a weird boast for a LOTO. By a 10000 to 1 chance it turned out to be relevant and he still screws up. Not gonna be relevant again. And he is off making publicity videos at the Berlin holocaust memorial. Plank.
I thought that was a better debate than Friday. More substantive. At least touched on policy. Much, much better from Liz, not as much room for Kemi. TT annoyingly irrelevant. Rishi dominating. I'm sure that Penny was there, it just kind of slips my mind.
Penny really does have nothing to say, just a very empty vessel. But she presents that emptiness well. I don't think she's going to make the final two at this rate. Taking too many hits and still doesn't stand for anything really at all.
Betfair next prime minister 2.76 Rishi Sunak 36% 2.9 Penny Mordaunt 34% 6.6 Liz Truss 15% 7.6 Kemi Badenoch 13% 95 Tom Tugendhat 130 Dominic Raab
To make the final two 1.09 Rishi Sunak 92% 1.5 Penny Mordaunt 67% 3.05 Liz Truss 33% 5.3 Kemi Badenoch 19% 48 Tom Tugendhat
Next PM 2.58 Rishi Sunak 39% 3.3 Penny Mordaunt 30% 4.7 Liz Truss 21% 8.4 Kemi Badenoch 12% 110 Dominic Raab 110 Tom Tugendhat
Next Con leader 2.58 Rishi Sunak 39% 3.45 Penny Mordaunt 29% 4.8 Liz Truss 21% 8.2 Kemi Badenoch 12% 100 Tom Tugendhat
To make the final two 1.07 Rishi Sunak 93% 1.55 Penny Mordaunt 65% 2.62 Liz Truss 38% 5.8 Kemi Badenoch 17% 90 Tom Tugendhat
ETA we've mentioned this before but it is worth noting there is not enough money in these markets for the bot-writers to link them, so occasionally odd gaps open up.
Pre-debate Betfair.
Next PM 2.54 Rishi Sunak 39% 3.25 Penny Mordaunt 31% 5.7 Liz Truss 18% 8.8 Kemi Badenoch 11% 100 Tom Tugendhat 150 Dominic Raab
Next Con Leader 2.5 Rishi Sunak 40% 3.15 Penny Mordaunt 32% 5.5 Liz Truss 18% 8.6 Kemi Badenoch 12% 110 Tom Tugendhat
To make the final two 1.08 Rishi Sunak 93% 1.66 Penny Mordaunt 60% 2.64 Liz Truss 38% 5.6 Kemi Badenoch 18% 60 Tom Tugendhat
End of debate. Raab's drifted!
Next PM 2.4 Rishi Sunak 42% 3.35 Penny Mordaunt 30% 4.9 Liz Truss 20% 11 Kemi Badenoch 9% 100 Tom Tugendhat 230 Dominic Raab
Next Con Leader 2.4 Rishi Sunak 42% 3.15 Penny Mordaunt 32% 4.9 Liz Truss 20% 12.5 Kemi Badenoch 8% 130 Tom Tugendhat
To make the final two 1.07 Rishi Sunak 93% 1.51 Penny Mordaunt 66% 2.52 Liz Truss 40% 6 Kemi Badenoch 17% 60 Tom Tugendhat
Truss was much better tonight (though her closing statement was weak). Mordaunt was fine. I thought her closing statement was good.
I said on Friday that if Kemi wanted to get through she’d have to demolish Truss. That hasn’t happened; and she will follow Tugendhat out in due course.
Just watching the closing statements. Rishi was good, Penny not so good, Tommy Tug a bit bland, Liz definitely playing the experience card against Kemi, Kemi playing the kids card - shitting on Penny I guess, bit bland otherwise.
Final statements: Sunak strong and professional. Modaunt freezes and then says something brief I've already forgotten. Truss solid but full fat Conservative. Badenoch quite touching.
My reaction was completely different. I thought Mordaunt came over best in the closing statements. She seemed serious and with a message.
Truss OK, but still doesn’t know what to do with her hands. Sunak came over as too slick.
Just watching the closing statements. Rishi was good, Penny not so good, Tommy Tug a bit bland, Liz definitely playing the experience card against Kemi, Kemi playing the kids card - shitting on Penny I guess, bit bland otherwise.
RS was polished but I'm not sure that helps him. His problem is that he is seem as arrogant and self-righteous. Nothing from tonight is going to change that view of him.
Sunak - mostly because he spoke the most and had to counter questions and attacks more, and largely did so well Truss - Confident, direct, painted it as her vs Rishi Kemi - Quieter, but when speaking mostly did well Tugendhat - had some moments, but largely irrelevant Mordaunt - Made no real impact
In order of debate winners
Truss - more substantial a figure than Mordaunt, and though she had some bad answers from my POV, nothing to sink her. From this I'd think she can overtake Mordaunt. Sunak - Still comes across well, and dealt with attacks mostly ok. Solidified his position with MPs I think. Tugendhat - was going nowhere and still is, so no change. Kemi - did not grab attention, felt like a bystander Mordaunt - eclipsed massively by Truss, had no standout moments.
Yep, agree with everything you wrote. Tugendhat is beginning to grate.
1. Badenoch - talks human appealingly, can actually see her reaching some non-Conservative voters. 2. Sunak. Consummate professional, but a little technocratic and a little defensive. 3. Truss. Much better than last time. Might reassure members who want a solid Tory with no compromise. 4. Modaunt. Seemed ill at ease, struggled to say anything memorable. 5. Tugendhat. Really played the army card so often it got tedious.
Oh come on Penny, I know you have a slogan about leaderhship being about the ship, but the contest is about the leader, so of course the debate was about you!
I think she's a sinking ship now.
Agreed. Was quite a weak performance. TBH, I thought TT wasn't that great either - too much about his army career and he over-detailed on some of the climate stuff.
I'll probably put some money on Rishi as a covering bet but I think this contest remains wide open, although I think for the final two vs Sunak, it's now between Badenoch and Truss.
One thing I think we can all agree on, this moderator is crap compared to KGM last Friday.
God, no. She was much better.
Kept order and held them to account for answering questions whilst being polite and respectful.
Julie Etchingham is a class act.
If 'interrupting every five seconds' and 'never giving them a chance to answer' is your idea of 'being polite and respectful,' you and I have very different definitions of good manners. She came across as rude, arrogant and ineffectual.
Edit - although I suppose the mere fact you don't agree shows my original comment is wrong.
Not because I think he is the bee's knees or anything, but because Truss knows she is not as good at answering things and presenting herself, so she will just go hard on how she is the true Brexiter and belittle any attempt to discuss detail, as he will probably out debate her on such matters.
1. Badenoch - talks human appealingly, can actually see her reaching some non-Conservative voters. 2. Sunak. Consummate professional, but a little technocratic and a little defensive. 3. Truss. Much better than last time. Might reassure members who want a solid Tory with no compromise. 4. Modaunt. Seemed ill at ease, struggled to say anything memorable. 5. Tugendhat. Really played the army card so often it got tedious.
Tugendhat also needs to practise talking at a constant volume. He kept dropping his voice two thirds of the way through each sentence.
Once again I think Sunak and Mordaunt did best, and once again I think they're still the frontrunners. Sunak with his direct condfidence and ease, Mordaunt with her unusual capacity among politicians to relate emotionally. Not much has changed.
Sunak - mostly because he spoke the most and had to counter questions and attacks more, and largely did so well Truss - Confident, direct, painted it as her vs Rishi Kemi - Quieter, but when speaking mostly did well Tugendhat - had some moments, but largely irrelevant Mordaunt - Made no real impact
In order of debate winners
Truss - more substantial a figure than Mordaunt, and though she had some bad answers from my POV, nothing to sink her. From this I'd think she can overtake Mordaunt. Sunak - Still comes across well, and dealt with attacks mostly ok. Solidified his position with MPs I think. Tugendhat - was going nowhere and still is, so no change. Kemi - did not grab attention, felt like a bystander Mordaunt - eclipsed massively by Truss, had no standout moments.
I'm going to assume whoever 'off topiced' this had fat finger syndrome. Because if that's off topic we're all in trouble.
I hope we still get Rishi and Penny as the final two because at least it keeps Liz Truss away from the membership. I suspect that Rishi would be able to mount a successful campaign against Penny now, given she hasn’t been able to clearly articulate her big picture. I worry about Rishi v Truss. I think she’d win.
Oh come on Penny, I know you have a slogan about leaderhship being about the ship, but the contest is about the leader, so of course the debate was about you!
I think she's a sinking ship now.
I've seen enough evidence from these debates to conclude Penny Mordaunt would be a disaster as PM, even worse than Truss, even though she's far more likeable and relatable.
1. Badenoch - talks human appealingly, can actually see her reaching some non-Conservative voters. 2. Sunak. Consummate professional, but a little technocratic and a little defensive. 3. Truss. Much better than last time. Might reassure members who want a solid Tory with no compromise. 4. Modaunt. Seemed ill at ease, struggled to say anything memorable. 5. Tugendhat. Really played the army card so often it got tedious.
Tugendhat also needs to practise talking at a constant volume. He kept dropping his voice two thirds of the way through each sentence.
As that is the last we’ll see of him, perhaps he doesn’t need to worry now.
Not because I think he is the bee's knees or anything, but because Truss knows she is not as good at answering things and presenting herself, so she will just go hard on how she is the true Brexiter and belittle any attempt to discuss detail, as he will probably out debate her on such matters.
If that’s the final two, I think it’s 50/50 Truss will drop a clanger and drop out.
One thing I think we can all agree on, this moderator is crap compared to KGM last Friday.
God, no. She was much better.
Kept order and held them to account for answering questions whilst being polite and respectful.
Julie Etchingham is a class act.
If 'interrupting every five seconds' and 'never giving them a chance to answer' is your idea of 'being polite and respectful,' you and I have very different definitions of good manners. She came across as rude, arrogant and ineffectual.
Edit - although I suppose the mere fact you don't agree shows my original comment is wrong.
I heard good and clear answers from all the candidates, and she challenged them when they were not.
Comments
Come on Tories, just get this done. Smack Sunak up to 200 votes and end the contest.
https://twitter.com/PennyMordaunt/status/1547880622730817540?s=20&t=1WNtd6ypNDB4L6JHXaM7jA
Error sunak talking about his children's inheritance
Truss, Mordaunt better tonight
Sunak solid though had some rough moments
Tom fairly quiet
Kemi was poor
Empty suit.
I'll criticise her any time because she's more useless than Amanda Spielman, but that's a slightly unfair comment.
Better from Truss
Good from Tom
Average from Badenoch.
Poor from Penny
That's my opinion anyway
Truss cannot win over the country. Badenoch is too green. Penny is likeable, but lacks incisiveness and grit.
Sunak at least gives the impression of being able to manage the business of government and being able to present to the public , even though he is a deeply flawed candidate.
Badenoch’s “I can be the change” rings hollow when it’s vague what her views are.
Should I watch the first half on ITV1+1?
Also would explain much beyond her breathing.
Dorries should nationalise it…
1. Weeks of internal infighting which will get nastier than ever.
2. Bonzo Dog continues to lead the Doodah Band in not governing.
A long spell of no government despite the growing crises whilst the party says "you must wait, we are too busy trying to kill each other". And then will try and claim unity and majesty and responsibility.
Sunak - mostly because he spoke the most and had to counter questions and attacks more, and largely did so well
Truss - Confident, direct, painted it as her vs Rishi
Kemi - Quieter, but when speaking mostly did well
Tugendhat - had some moments, but largely irrelevant
Mordaunt - Made no real impact
In order of debate winners
Truss - more substantial a figure than Mordaunt, and though she had some bad answers from my POV, nothing to sink her. From this I'd think she can overtake Mordaunt.
Sunak - Still comes across well, and dealt with attacks mostly ok. Solidified his position with MPs I think.
Tugendhat - was going nowhere and still is, so no change.
Kemi - did not grab attention, felt like a bystander
Mordaunt - eclipsed massively by Truss, had no standout moments.
Which was nice.
Liz Truss would not be a wise choice for the Tories. Rishi came over pretty well.
Next PM
2.4 Rishi Sunak 42%
3.35 Penny Mordaunt 30%
4.9 Liz Truss 20%
11 Kemi Badenoch 9%
100 Tom Tugendhat
230 Dominic Raab
Next Con Leader
2.4 Rishi Sunak 42%
3.15 Penny Mordaunt 32%
4.9 Liz Truss 20%
12.5 Kemi Badenoch 8%
130 Tom Tugendhat
To make the final two
1.07 Rishi Sunak 93%
1.51 Penny Mordaunt 66%
2.52 Liz Truss 40%
6 Kemi Badenoch 17%
60 Tom Tugendhat
I said on Friday that if Kemi wanted to get through she’d have to demolish Truss. That hasn’t happened; and she will follow Tugendhat out in due course.
Truss OK, but still doesn’t know what to do with her hands. Sunak came over as too slick.
Kept order and held them to account for answering questions whilst being polite and respectful.
Julie Etchingham is a class act.
I thought she was awful
1. Badenoch - talks human appealingly, can actually see her reaching some non-Conservative voters.
2. Sunak. Consummate professional, but a little technocratic and a little defensive.
3. Truss. Much better than last time. Might reassure members who want a solid Tory with no compromise.
4. Modaunt. Seemed ill at ease, struggled to say anything memorable.
5. Tugendhat. Really played the army card so often it got tedious.
I'll probably put some money on Rishi as a covering bet but I think this contest remains wide open, although I think for the final two vs Sunak, it's now between Badenoch and Truss.
Edit - although I suppose the mere fact you don't agree shows my original comment is wrong.
Positive: Sunak, Badenoch,
Neutral: Truss, Tugendhat
Negative: Mordaunt
It's all opinions at the end of the day.
Not because I think he is the bee's knees or anything, but because Truss knows she is not as good at answering things and presenting herself, so she will just go hard on how she is the true Brexiter and belittle any attempt to discuss detail, as he will probably out debate her on such matters.