Not because I think he is the bee's knees or anything, but because Truss knows she is not as good at answering things and presenting herself, so she will just go hard on how she is the true Brexiter and belittle any attempt to discuss detail, as he will probably out debate her on such matters.
I don’t think so. Rishi will try to run a “presidential” campaign, and Liz a guerilla one.
Having said that, I think on balance it will still be Rishi v Mordaunt, and I think Mordaunt did better tonight than on Friday.
Looking at the betting odds compared to this morning, Badenoch has dropped from 9 to 16 and Truss has risen from 6.6 to 4.8. Mordaunt has dropped from 2.7 to 3.5. Sunak has climbed slightly from 2.7 to 2.5. I don't know whether the debate was responsible for these changes.
1. Badenoch - talks human appealingly, can actually see her reaching some non-Conservative voters. 2. Sunak. Consummate professional, but a little technocratic and a little defensive. 3. Truss. Much better than last time. Might reassure members who want a solid Tory with no compromise. 4. Modaunt. Seemed ill at ease, struggled to say anything memorable. 5. Tugendhat. Really played the army card so often it got tedious.
Tugendhat also needs to practise talking at a constant volume. He kept dropping his voice two thirds of the way through each sentence.
It’s a shame he can’t draw on any experience leading men through tough times in a noisy environment.
Penny doesn’t really stand for much but she looks good and has a calm manner which is quite comforting . I like her voice and I think world leaders would be somewhat star struck when they meet her .
Not sure what the big deal is on a lack of detail , get a good team and job done .
Perhaps her Bondish Money Penny styling is clouding my judgement !
Mordaunt didn't contribute a great deal and her closing speech was weird - did she pre-prepare to tell everyone that it was all a shit debate and well done for slogging through it, or did she wing that?
Tugendhat largely anonymous in a format that relied on attacking the other person.
Badenoch - thought her answer on Brexit was good, not really sure there was much else from her.
Truss just likes to read out her CV a lot.
Sunak the grown up in the room and everyone going after him just sort of proved it.
Caught a clip of Penny suggesting only she can beat Labour in 2024. An almost HYFUD like obsession with a tiny sample (a single poll iirc). It's also a lie, two candidates suffer from name recognition issues so it's impossible to say whether they could or couldn't beat Labour, Rishi has previously polled well against Starmer on the PM question so it's really only Liz Truss who would struggle.
1. Badenoch - talks human appealingly, can actually see her reaching some non-Conservative voters. 2. Sunak. Consummate professional, but a little technocratic and a little defensive. 3. Truss. Much better than last time. Might reassure members who want a solid Tory with no compromise. 4. Modaunt. Seemed ill at ease, struggled to say anything memorable. 5. Tugendhat. Really played the army card so often it got tedious.
Not because I think he is the bee's knees or anything, but because Truss knows she is not as good at answering things and presenting herself, so she will just go hard on how she is the true Brexiter and belittle any attempt to discuss detail, as he will probably out debate her on such matters.
She did the best tonight when she glowed with the zeal of the Brexit convert and started whacking Rishi around the head with how strong and Brexity she was. It’s the sort of thing that will go down well with the membership, which is what worries me.
Sunak - mostly because he spoke the most and had to counter questions and attacks more, and largely did so well Truss - Confident, direct, painted it as her vs Rishi Kemi - Quieter, but when speaking mostly did well Tugendhat - had some moments, but largely irrelevant Mordaunt - Made no real impact
In order of debate winners
Truss - more substantial a figure than Mordaunt, and though she had some bad answers from my POV, nothing to sink her. From this I'd think she can overtake Mordaunt. Sunak - Still comes across well, and dealt with attacks mostly ok. Solidified his position with MPs I think. Tugendhat - was going nowhere and still is, so no change. Kemi - did not grab attention, felt like a bystander Mordaunt - eclipsed massively by Truss, had no standout moments.
Sunak's problem is not that he doesn't come across well, it is that he is too slick and won't understand people's concerns. What in tonight's debate provided evidence that addressed this?
Not because I think he is the bee's knees or anything, but because Truss knows she is not as good at answering things and presenting herself, so she will just go hard on how she is the true Brexiter and belittle any attempt to discuss detail, as he will probably out debate her on such matters.
If that’s the final two, I think it’s 50/50 Truss will drop a clanger and drop out.
Apparently they may have had to sign something promising they won't do that if they get to the final two.
I'm just not sure she can drop any clanger big enough to ruin her chances against Sunak - she is the hard Brexiter's choice, many members don't like Rishi, and she is right she is an experienced minister, unlikely to make a devastating cock up.
One thing I think we can all agree on, this moderator is crap compared to KGM last Friday.
God, no. She was much better.
Kept order and held them to account for answering questions whilst being polite and respectful.
Julie Etchingham is a class act.
If 'interrupting every five seconds' and 'never giving them a chance to answer' is your idea of 'being polite and respectful,' you and I have very different definitions of good manners. She came across as rude, arrogant and ineffectual.
Edit - although I suppose the mere fact you don't agree shows my original comment is wrong.
I heard good and clear answers from all the candidates, and she challenged them when they were not.
Well, I couldn't, because she kept interrupting. And with my hearing difficulties it's really, really hard to hear over background droning in the same pitch.
But even allowing for that, it was just bad manners. I thought she was absolutely awful.
I hope we still get Rishi and Penny as the final two because at least it keeps Liz Truss away from the membership. I suspect that Rishi would be able to mount a successful campaign against Penny now, given she hasn’t been able to clearly articulate her big picture. I worry about Rishi v Truss. I think she’d win.
If the last 3 are Penny, Rishi and Liz and Rishi was clearly in front in the penultimate round I expect him to lend some MPs to Penny to knock out Liz. The ERG would go beserk of course but it would probably be the best thing for Tory electability at the next general election
There’s an oddly concerted, oddly standardised way in which Twitter posts rubbishing the heatwave are focusing on supposed “colour inflation” on BBC maps (which is hilariously wrong, the colours are redder because it’s hotter - colour scheme has hardly changed) and the comparison of “2 days” vs that Blitz of boomer weather lore, 1976.
Either all these people are having the same idea at once, and using the same painstakingly archived material, or there’s something going on.
I suspect there’s something going on. How much did it cost, lads?
Not because I think he is the bee's knees or anything, but because Truss knows she is not as good at answering things and presenting herself, so she will just go hard on how she is the true Brexiter and belittle any attempt to discuss detail, as he will probably out debate her on such matters.
If that’s the final two, I think it’s 50/50 Truss will drop a clanger and drop out.
Apparently they may have had to sign something promising they won't do that if they get to the final two.
I'm just not sure she can drop any clanger big enough to ruin her chances against Sunak - she is the hard Brexiter's choice, many members don't like Rishi, and she is right she is an experienced minister, unlikely to make a devastating cock up.
I hadn’t picked up on that. One would hope the MPs will be very aware when they shape their choice of the final two.
Sunak - mostly because he spoke the most and had to counter questions and attacks more, and largely did so well Truss - Confident, direct, painted it as her vs Rishi Kemi - Quieter, but when speaking mostly did well Tugendhat - had some moments, but largely irrelevant Mordaunt - Made no real impact
In order of debate winners
Truss - more substantial a figure than Mordaunt, and though she had some bad answers from my POV, nothing to sink her. From this I'd think she can overtake Mordaunt. Sunak - Still comes across well, and dealt with attacks mostly ok. Solidified his position with MPs I think. Tugendhat - was going nowhere and still is, so no change. Kemi - did not grab attention, felt like a bystander Mordaunt - eclipsed massively by Truss, had no standout moments.
Sunak's problem is not that he doesn't come across well, it is that he is too slick and won't understand people's concerns. What in tonight's debate provided evidence that addressed this?
I've never bought into the idea that slick presentation means you cannot understand peoples' concerns. I don't think politicians who imply such things believe it either, since they don't claim it if they/their leader presents well. It is just something they claim if they know they are not as good at presenting as their opponent, so it is fundamentally a dishonest attack when Rishi's counterparts imply it.
However, I agree that many do think that of Rishi (though I disagree it is because of his slickness), and agree he hasn't addressed that. How can he? If he says he understands people don't believe him.
Sunak - mostly because he spoke the most and had to counter questions and attacks more, and largely did so well Truss - Confident, direct, painted it as her vs Rishi Kemi - Quieter, but when speaking mostly did well Tugendhat - had some moments, but largely irrelevant Mordaunt - Made no real impact
In order of debate winners
Truss - more substantial a figure than Mordaunt, and though she had some bad answers from my POV, nothing to sink her. From this I'd think she can overtake Mordaunt. Sunak - Still comes across well, and dealt with attacks mostly ok. Solidified his position with MPs I think. Tugendhat - was going nowhere and still is, so no change. Kemi - did not grab attention, felt like a bystander Mordaunt - eclipsed massively by Truss, had no standout moments.
Sunak's problem is not that he doesn't come across well, it is that he is too slick and won't understand people's concerns. What in tonight's debate provided evidence that addressed this?
It's just the same as this morning. His weakness is Mordaunt's strength, and they still both together offer the most that's distinctive.
If Tugendhat can overcome his natural diffidence, he may be Prime Minister one day, too. Badenoch needs several more years.
Sunak - mostly because he spoke the most and had to counter questions and attacks more, and largely did so well Truss - Confident, direct, painted it as her vs Rishi Kemi - Quieter, but when speaking mostly did well Tugendhat - had some moments, but largely irrelevant Mordaunt - Made no real impact
In order of debate winners
Truss - more substantial a figure than Mordaunt, and though she had some bad answers from my POV, nothing to sink her. From this I'd think she can overtake Mordaunt. Sunak - Still comes across well, and dealt with attacks mostly ok. Solidified his position with MPs I think. Tugendhat - was going nowhere and still is, so no change. Kemi - did not grab attention, felt like a bystander Mordaunt - eclipsed massively by Truss, had no standout moments.
Sunak's problem is not that he doesn't come across well, it is that he is too slick and won't understand people's concerns. What in tonight's debate provided evidence that addressed this?
He'll play the family card a lot, especially against Penny. It will make him a lot more relatable than a 49 year old divorced person with no kids (and no chance of kids). You could see Rishi, Kemi and Liz all push the family/kids based stuff because it makes them a lot more relatable and in general voters like for politicians to have a family/kids.
Sunak - mostly because he spoke the most and had to counter questions and attacks more, and largely did so well Truss - Confident, direct, painted it as her vs Rishi Kemi - Quieter, but when speaking mostly did well Tugendhat - had some moments, but largely irrelevant Mordaunt - Made no real impact
In order of debate winners
Truss - more substantial a figure than Mordaunt, and though she had some bad answers from my POV, nothing to sink her. From this I'd think she can overtake Mordaunt. Sunak - Still comes across well, and dealt with attacks mostly ok. Solidified his position with MPs I think. Tugendhat - was going nowhere and still is, so no change. Kemi - did not grab attention, felt like a bystander Mordaunt - eclipsed massively by Truss, had no standout moments.
I'm going to assume whoever 'off topiced' this had fat finger syndrome. Because if that's off topic we're all in trouble.
Suspect that was podgy little me….when I liked KLE’s post (which I did) the off-topic flag disappeared.
Not because I think he is the bee's knees or anything, but because Truss knows she is not as good at answering things and presenting herself, so she will just go hard on how she is the true Brexiter and belittle any attempt to discuss detail, as he will probably out debate her on such matters.
If that’s the final two, I think it’s 50/50 Truss will drop a clanger and drop out.
Apparently they may have had to sign something promising they won't do that if they get to the final two.
I'm just not sure she can drop any clanger big enough to ruin her chances against Sunak - she is the hard Brexiter's choice, many members don't like Rishi, and she is right she is an experienced minister, unlikely to make a devastating cock up.
And the '22 would do - what exactly? - if they reneged on it?
Rishi the only one looking capable of being PM. The others all too lightweight, which is a pity. I am green all round but least on Sunak.
Rishi is even smarmier than Blair.
A strong statement.
He did seem the only one who could crack a smile. Lighten the f*ck up candidates, we don't want a Caligula type libertine unconcerned with the problems of the day, but you could also try to cheer us with some optimism.
This is like Yes Minister’s Party Games special. Mordaunt hoping to be Jim Hacker?
Well, she could rise without trace if the Anyone But Truss team keep Truss away from members on the grounds of the national interest. Then the anti Sunak crowd kick in...
I hope we still get Rishi and Penny as the final two because at least it keeps Liz Truss away from the membership. I suspect that Rishi would be able to mount a successful campaign against Penny now, given she hasn’t been able to clearly articulate her big picture. I worry about Rishi v Truss. I think she’d win.
If the last 3 are Penny, Rishi and Liz and Rishi was clearly in front in the penultimate round I expect him to lend some MPs to Penny to knock out Liz. The ERG would go beserk of course but it would probably be the best thing for Tory electability at the next general election
I believe you on internal Tory affairs, but I find it fascinating that the ERG might end up backing someone who campaigned for Remain!
Sunak - mostly because he spoke the most and had to counter questions and attacks more, and largely did so well Truss - Confident, direct, painted it as her vs Rishi Kemi - Quieter, but when speaking mostly did well Tugendhat - had some moments, but largely irrelevant Mordaunt - Made no real impact
In order of debate winners
Truss - more substantial a figure than Mordaunt, and though she had some bad answers from my POV, nothing to sink her. From this I'd think she can overtake Mordaunt. Sunak - Still comes across well, and dealt with attacks mostly ok. Solidified his position with MPs I think. Tugendhat - was going nowhere and still is, so no change. Kemi - did not grab attention, felt like a bystander Mordaunt - eclipsed massively by Truss, had no standout moments.
Sunak's problem is not that he doesn't come across well, it is that he is too slick and won't understand people's concerns. What in tonight's debate provided evidence that addressed this?
He'll play the family card a lot, especially against Penny. It will make him a lot more relatable than a 49 year old divorced person with no kids (and no chance of kids). You could see Rishi, Kemi and Liz all push the family/kids based stuff because it makes them a lot more relatable and in general voters like for politicians to have a family/kids.
The problem though is that his family live in moon-suits in a climate-change ready bunker somewhere outside of San Jose.
Sunak - mostly because he spoke the most and had to counter questions and attacks more, and largely did so well Truss - Confident, direct, painted it as her vs Rishi Kemi - Quieter, but when speaking mostly did well Tugendhat - had some moments, but largely irrelevant Mordaunt - Made no real impact
In order of debate winners
Truss - more substantial a figure than Mordaunt, and though she had some bad answers from my POV, nothing to sink her. From this I'd think she can overtake Mordaunt. Sunak - Still comes across well, and dealt with attacks mostly ok. Solidified his position with MPs I think. Tugendhat - was going nowhere and still is, so no change. Kemi - did not grab attention, felt like a bystander Mordaunt - eclipsed massively by Truss, had no standout moments.
Sunak's problem is not that he doesn't come across well, it is that he is too slick and won't understand people's concerns. What in tonight's debate provided evidence that addressed this?
He'll play the family card a lot, especially against Penny. It will make him a lot more relatable than a 49 year old divorced person with no kids (and no chance of kids). You could see Rishi, Kemi and Liz all push the family/kids based stuff because it makes them a lot more relatable and in general voters like for politicians to have a family/kids.
But that's just because they know they have a handicap against her, on that front. She's just naturally better at emotionally relating.
Sunak - mostly because he spoke the most and had to counter questions and attacks more, and largely did so well Truss - Confident, direct, painted it as her vs Rishi Kemi - Quieter, but when speaking mostly did well Tugendhat - had some moments, but largely irrelevant Mordaunt - Made no real impact
In order of debate winners
Truss - more substantial a figure than Mordaunt, and though she had some bad answers from my POV, nothing to sink her. From this I'd think she can overtake Mordaunt. Sunak - Still comes across well, and dealt with attacks mostly ok. Solidified his position with MPs I think. Tugendhat - was going nowhere and still is, so no change. Kemi - did not grab attention, felt like a bystander Mordaunt - eclipsed massively by Truss, had no standout moments.
Sunak's problem is not that he doesn't come across well, it is that he is too slick and won't understand people's concerns. What in tonight's debate provided evidence that addressed this?
He'll play the family card a lot, especially against Penny. It will make him a lot more relatable than a 49 year old divorced person with no kids (and no chance of kids). You could see Rishi, Kemi and Liz all push the family/kids based stuff because it makes them a lot more relatable and in general voters like for politicians to have a family/kids.
Sunak - mostly because he spoke the most and had to counter questions and attacks more, and largely did so well Truss - Confident, direct, painted it as her vs Rishi Kemi - Quieter, but when speaking mostly did well Tugendhat - had some moments, but largely irrelevant Mordaunt - Made no real impact
In order of debate winners
Truss - more substantial a figure than Mordaunt, and though she had some bad answers from my POV, nothing to sink her. From this I'd think she can overtake Mordaunt. Sunak - Still comes across well, and dealt with attacks mostly ok. Solidified his position with MPs I think. Tugendhat - was going nowhere and still is, so no change. Kemi - did not grab attention, felt like a bystander Mordaunt - eclipsed massively by Truss, had no standout moments.
Sunak's problem is not that he doesn't come across well, it is that he is too slick and won't understand people's concerns. What in tonight's debate provided evidence that addressed this?
He'll play the family card a lot, especially against Penny. It will make him a lot more relatable than a 49 year old divorced person with no kids (and no chance of kids). You could see Rishi, Kemi and Liz all push the family/kids based stuff because it makes them a lot more relatable and in general voters like for politicians to have a family/kids.
PM has 4 cats. Don’t overlook the cat vote. After all, what party do you think fat cats all joined!
Not because I think he is the bee's knees or anything, but because Truss knows she is not as good at answering things and presenting herself, so she will just go hard on how she is the true Brexiter and belittle any attempt to discuss detail, as he will probably out debate her on such matters.
If that’s the final two, I think it’s 50/50 Truss will drop a clanger and drop out.
Apparently they may have had to sign something promising they won't do that if they get to the final two.
I'm just not sure she can drop any clanger big enough to ruin her chances against Sunak - she is the hard Brexiter's choice, many members don't like Rishi, and she is right she is an experienced minister, unlikely to make a devastating cock up.
And the '22 would do - what exactly? - if they reneged on it?
Make them stand an extra round at Annie's Bar?
It may well depend if it was a formal committment as part of the rule making process - you could make it so they cannot withdraw, like how candidates remain on the ballot as registered for a GE even if, say, they are suspended by their party. Thought it would be pretty silly for them to say they want to withdraw, and then the members elect them anyway.
Rishi Sunak- Strong and calm and mostly under attack Liz Truss - Firm verging on agressive and nasty Penny Mordaunt - Mostly vague, I've gotta serve somebody (Dylan) Kemi Badenoch - Mostly vague. lacked impact, disappointing Tom Tugendhat - All he has is that he was in the army
Rishi or Liz could run a Cabinet but Rishi would do it more by agreement and Liz by direction.
Easier to have fun when you're not a true contender in the race. See many an ex-politician revealing how personable and funny they are after they leave office.
There’s an oddly concerted, oddly standardised way in which Twitter posts rubbishing the heatwave are focusing on supposed “colour inflation” on BBC maps (which is hilariously wrong, the colours are redder because it’s hotter - colour scheme has hardly changed) and the comparison of “2 days” vs that Blitz of boomer weather lore, 1976.
Either all these people are having the same idea at once, and using the same painstakingly archived material, or there’s something going on.
I suspect there’s something going on. How much did it cost, lads?
Hot weather like this has always happened. Someone posted the hottest temps going back a hundred years or so, and back in the early part of the 20th century there were 35 deg days on occasion. The difference is that climate change has shifted the dial a few degrees hotter, and hence what might have been mid thirties is likely to near or exceed 40. But 1976 was different for longevity. The hot for the next 48 hours is a plume event, 76 was a very different thing.
Sunak - mostly because he spoke the most and had to counter questions and attacks more, and largely did so well Truss - Confident, direct, painted it as her vs Rishi Kemi - Quieter, but when speaking mostly did well Tugendhat - had some moments, but largely irrelevant Mordaunt - Made no real impact
In order of debate winners
Truss - more substantial a figure than Mordaunt, and though she had some bad answers from my POV, nothing to sink her. From this I'd think she can overtake Mordaunt. Sunak - Still comes across well, and dealt with attacks mostly ok. Solidified his position with MPs I think. Tugendhat - was going nowhere and still is, so no change. Kemi - did not grab attention, felt like a bystander Mordaunt - eclipsed massively by Truss, had no standout moments.
Sunak's problem is not that he doesn't come across well, it is that he is too slick and won't understand people's concerns. What in tonight's debate provided evidence that addressed this?
He'll play the family card a lot, especially against Penny. It will make him a lot more relatable than a 49 year old divorced person with no kids (and no chance of kids). You could see Rishi, Kemi and Liz all push the family/kids based stuff because it makes them a lot more relatable and in general voters like for politicians to have a family/kids.
Didn't work so well for Leadsom v May.
Leadsom on is very supportive of Mordaunt, as a mother would be.
Sunak - mostly because he spoke the most and had to counter questions and attacks more, and largely did so well Truss - Confident, direct, painted it as her vs Rishi Kemi - Quieter, but when speaking mostly did well Tugendhat - had some moments, but largely irrelevant Mordaunt - Made no real impact
In order of debate winners
Truss - more substantial a figure than Mordaunt, and though she had some bad answers from my POV, nothing to sink her. From this I'd think she can overtake Mordaunt. Sunak - Still comes across well, and dealt with attacks mostly ok. Solidified his position with MPs I think. Tugendhat - was going nowhere and still is, so no change. Kemi - did not grab attention, felt like a bystander Mordaunt - eclipsed massively by Truss, had no standout moments.
Generally agreed.
Sunak is the only one who looks a serious candidate.
The Good Ship Penny seems to be at sea, and drifting.
So, that Truss "why I am a Tory" speech - it was such bullshit. "I became a Tory because I saw kids at my school not getting on". Yes, with a Tory government. She then went to Uni. And joined the LibDems. very actively.
Sunak - mostly because he spoke the most and had to counter questions and attacks more, and largely did so well Truss - Confident, direct, painted it as her vs Rishi Kemi - Quieter, but when speaking mostly did well Tugendhat - had some moments, but largely irrelevant Mordaunt - Made no real impact
In order of debate winners
Truss - more substantial a figure than Mordaunt, and though she had some bad answers from my POV, nothing to sink her. From this I'd think she can overtake Mordaunt. Sunak - Still comes across well, and dealt with attacks mostly ok. Solidified his position with MPs I think. Tugendhat - was going nowhere and still is, so no change. Kemi - did not grab attention, felt like a bystander Mordaunt - eclipsed massively by Truss, had no standout moments.
Sunak's problem is not that he doesn't come across well, it is that he is too slick and won't understand people's concerns. What in tonight's debate provided evidence that addressed this?
I've never bought into the idea that slick presentation means you cannot understand peoples' concerns. I don't think politicians who imply such things believe it either, since they don't claim it if they/their leader presents well. It is just something they claim if they know they are not as good at presenting as their opponent, so it is fundamentally a dishonest attack when Rishi's counterparts imply it.
However, I agree that many do think that of Rishi (though I disagree it is because of his slickness), and agree he hasn't addressed that. How can he? If he says he understands people don't believe him.
It may not be fair but that is life. Sunak's problem is that he was in charge of the Treasury. So when you are making decisions that impact people's income, such as putting up NI, your personal circumstances are going to be even more in the spotlight if you are a very rich individual with a wife that has / had non-Dom status etc.
Sunak is the candidate Labour would love to face because any decision that has an impact on people's finances - as almost all will - will be contrasted with his wealth and status. It will be a 24 hour shitfest about Rich-y Rishi. And there are plenty of people out there with whom that message will resonate.
Rishi Sunak- Strong and calm and mostly under attack Liz Truss - Firm verging on agressive and nasty Penny Mordaunt - Mostly vague, I've gotta serve somebody (Dylan) Kemi Badenoch - Mostly vague. lacked impact, disappointing Tom Tugendhat - All he has is that he was in the army
Rishi or Liz could run a Cabinet but Rishi would do it more by agreement and Liz by direction.
Bluntly, I come back again to three of them making a tactical error by all going after Sunak. First, because they didn't really lay a glove on him, and second, because they gave him a chance to demonstrate the breadth of his knowledge of government.
Tugendhat going after Mordaunt instead was interesting. It suggests, as I've speculated before, that his target is third and the Foreign Office. If Mordaunt crashes after tonight, he still has a decent chance of achieving that.
Sunak - mostly because he spoke the most and had to counter questions and attacks more, and largely did so well Truss - Confident, direct, painted it as her vs Rishi Kemi - Quieter, but when speaking mostly did well Tugendhat - had some moments, but largely irrelevant Mordaunt - Made no real impact
In order of debate winners
Truss - more substantial a figure than Mordaunt, and though she had some bad answers from my POV, nothing to sink her. From this I'd think she can overtake Mordaunt. Sunak - Still comes across well, and dealt with attacks mostly ok. Solidified his position with MPs I think. Tugendhat - was going nowhere and still is, so no change. Kemi - did not grab attention, felt like a bystander Mordaunt - eclipsed massively by Truss, had no standout moments.
Sunak's problem is not that he doesn't come across well, it is that he is too slick and won't understand people's concerns. What in tonight's debate provided evidence that addressed this?
I've never bought into the idea that slick presentation means you cannot understand peoples' concerns. I don't think politicians who imply such things believe it either, since they don't claim it if they/their leader presents well. It is just something they claim if they know they are not as good at presenting as their opponent, so it is fundamentally a dishonest attack when Rishi's counterparts imply it.
However, I agree that many do think that of Rishi (though I disagree it is because of his slickness), and agree he hasn't addressed that. How can he? If he says he understands people don't believe him.
I am not a Sunak fan (although think he will win ) but most people will want a PM who is slick, articulate and polished. Its only because we live in a social media world where everyone has to show vulnerability it is even considered by some a negative
Sunak - mostly because he spoke the most and had to counter questions and attacks more, and largely did so well Truss - Confident, direct, painted it as her vs Rishi Kemi - Quieter, but when speaking mostly did well Tugendhat - had some moments, but largely irrelevant Mordaunt - Made no real impact
In order of debate winners
Truss - more substantial a figure than Mordaunt, and though she had some bad answers from my POV, nothing to sink her. From this I'd think she can overtake Mordaunt. Sunak - Still comes across well, and dealt with attacks mostly ok. Solidified his position with MPs I think. Tugendhat - was going nowhere and still is, so no change. Kemi - did not grab attention, felt like a bystander Mordaunt - eclipsed massively by Truss, had no standout moments.
Sunak's problem is not that he doesn't come across well, it is that he is too slick and won't understand people's concerns. What in tonight's debate provided evidence that addressed this?
He'll play the family card a lot, especially against Penny. It will make him a lot more relatable than a 49 year old divorced person with no kids (and no chance of kids). You could see Rishi, Kemi and Liz all push the family/kids based stuff because it makes them a lot more relatable and in general voters like for politicians to have a family/kids.
The problem though is that his family live in moon-suits in a climate-change ready bunker somewhere outside of San Jose.
Maybe, but having kids absolutely makes him more relatable, even if the reality is that he probably sent his daughters to boarding school and had a nanny when they were home. Penny will struggle to relate to the "hard working family" of which voters all seem to be made up. Simply she isn't part of that demographic, older voters are also a bit suspicious of childless single women in the late 40s early 50s IMO and the Tory selectorate is older voters and her personal life will be put under a microscope in the run off.
It’s possible Mordaunt could be overtaken by Truss tomorrow and this is why TT staying in has complicated things .
I’m pretty sure TT would endorse Mordaunt especially as she’s likely to be more re-assuring on defence spending and his supporters would want to stop Truss.
It would have been better to have Truss in 3rd place going into Tuesday’s vote , then it would have been all down to Badenochs supporters .
So, that Truss "why I am a Tory" speech - it was such bullshit. "I became a Tory because I saw kids at my school not getting on". Yes, with a Tory government. She then went to Uni. And joined the LibDems. very actively.
So no Liz, It Was A Lie.
Was under a Labour LEA, though. It’s a good story in my opinion, and a good contrast with Sunak.
I think Sunak would be far better than Truss, although his sheer wealth opens obvious attack lines, and you just know he cannot really understand Jarvis Cocker. Truss, I fear may win the vote of the members, and I think she’s awful.
I hope we still get Rishi and Penny as the final two because at least it keeps Liz Truss away from the membership. I suspect that Rishi would be able to mount a successful campaign against Penny now, given she hasn’t been able to clearly articulate her big picture. I worry about Rishi v Truss. I think she’d win.
If the last 3 are Penny, Rishi and Liz and Rishi was clearly in front in the penultimate round I expect him to lend some MPs to Penny to knock out Liz. The ERG would go beserk of course but it would probably be the best thing for Tory electability at the next general election
Agreed. And despite going beserk it would be entirely appropriate for the purpose of the MP round of the contest - it is their job to present the best two candidates to the members, not to provide a broad choice to the members.
That's the mistake Labour made.
I think it is too tricky to make work though. For one they'd need to judge it just right based on how the 4th place person's support would split, which is not easy. And for another it would be so obvious what he did that Sunak would look even more slippery, and probably torpedo his already poor chances with members.
This is a great debate for Mordaunt! Unless there’s something disastrous in the second 15 minutes, I don’t see what the bad reviews are about.
I agree, she was better than in the last debate, and is still one of the two frontrunners no doubt. I think it's largely that PB, generally quite cerebral and often with a bias towards the statistical, is fairly immune to her slightly more touchy-feely, metaphorically speaking, charms.
Sunak - mostly because he spoke the most and had to counter questions and attacks more, and largely did so well Truss - Confident, direct, painted it as her vs Rishi Kemi - Quieter, but when speaking mostly did well Tugendhat - had some moments, but largely irrelevant Mordaunt - Made no real impact
In order of debate winners
Truss - more substantial a figure than Mordaunt, and though she had some bad answers from my POV, nothing to sink her. From this I'd think she can overtake Mordaunt. Sunak - Still comes across well, and dealt with attacks mostly ok. Solidified his position with MPs I think. Tugendhat - was going nowhere and still is, so no change. Kemi - did not grab attention, felt like a bystander Mordaunt - eclipsed massively by Truss, had no standout moments.
Sunak's problem is not that he doesn't come across well, it is that he is too slick and won't understand people's concerns. What in tonight's debate provided evidence that addressed this?
He'll play the family card a lot, especially against Penny. It will make him a lot more relatable than a 49 year old divorced person with no kids (and no chance of kids). You could see Rishi, Kemi and Liz all push the family/kids based stuff because it makes them a lot more relatable and in general voters like for politicians to have a family/kids.
Didn't work so well for Leadsom v May.
Different era of politics and the key learning from that is to talk positively about one's own family/kids experiences rather than negatively about the opponent not having had those. Automatically the focus will switch to that subject.
I think PB sometimes has blind spots about what matters in politics. To help out, I'll mention two women told me today they fancied Sunak at least a little.
I think PB sometimes has blind spots about what matters in politics. To help out, I'll mention two women told me today they fancied Sunak at least a little.
So, that Truss "why I am a Tory" speech - it was such bullshit. "I became a Tory because I saw kids at my school not getting on". Yes, with a Tory government. She then went to Uni. And joined the LibDems. very actively.
So no Liz, It Was A Lie.
It is a bizarre statement. When you’re already liked by the ERG, surely you take that history as an excuse to reach out to LibDems or former LibDems? Nixon/China.
I think PB sometimes has blind spots about what matters in politics. To help out, I'll mention two women told me today they fancied Sunak at least a little.
They realise he's about 5'3" right?
The same height as Prince, and he was a big hit with the ladies. If Sunak can bust out a guitar…
Sunak - mostly because he spoke the most and had to counter questions and attacks more, and largely did so well Truss - Confident, direct, painted it as her vs Rishi Kemi - Quieter, but when speaking mostly did well Tugendhat - had some moments, but largely irrelevant Mordaunt - Made no real impact
In order of debate winners
Truss - more substantial a figure than Mordaunt, and though she had some bad answers from my POV, nothing to sink her. From this I'd think she can overtake Mordaunt. Sunak - Still comes across well, and dealt with attacks mostly ok. Solidified his position with MPs I think. Tugendhat - was going nowhere and still is, so no change. Kemi - did not grab attention, felt like a bystander Mordaunt - eclipsed massively by Truss, had no standout moments.
Sunak's problem is not that he doesn't come across well, it is that he is too slick and won't understand people's concerns. What in tonight's debate provided evidence that addressed this?
He'll play the family card a lot, especially against Penny. It will make him a lot more relatable than a 49 year old divorced person with no kids (and no chance of kids). You could see Rishi, Kemi and Liz all push the family/kids based stuff because it makes them a lot more relatable and in general voters like for politicians to have a family/kids.
Didn't work so well for Leadsom v May.
Different era of politics and the key learning from that is to talk positively about one's own family/kids experiences rather than negatively about the opponent not having had those. Automatically the focus will switch to that subject.
5 years - different era?! I know things move fast but, I don't think so.
Also the though that mulit-millionaire banker Rishi Sunak will be able to apply the common touch by 'playing the family card' is truly laughable.
So, that Truss "why I am a Tory" speech - it was such bullshit. "I became a Tory because I saw kids at my school not getting on". Yes, with a Tory government. She then went to Uni. And joined the LibDems. very actively.
So no Liz, It Was A Lie.
Was under a Labour LEA, though. It’s a good story in my opinion, and a good contrast with Sunak.
So she decided the reason her school was poor was the Labour LEA and not the Tory government, and thats what made her join the Tories the Lib Dems.
Its about as sincere as every other lie she tells.
I hope we still get Rishi and Penny as the final two because at least it keeps Liz Truss away from the membership. I suspect that Rishi would be able to mount a successful campaign against Penny now, given she hasn’t been able to clearly articulate her big picture. I worry about Rishi v Truss. I think she’d win.
If the last 3 are Penny, Rishi and Liz and Rishi was clearly in front in the penultimate round I expect him to lend some MPs to Penny to knock out Liz. The ERG would go beserk of course but it would probably be the best thing for Tory electability at the next general election
Is there any scenario where he's that far in front? He's still nearly 20 votes short, and there's no huge indication that he'd be way over the top. There is also polling suggesting he's got a better chance against Truss, and given it's likely to be close, he's surely better off trying to maximise his vote, so he can present himself as the clear favourite of MPs.
He doesn't come across as someone who would take even the smallest risk to his own chances, in order to help the party.
Sunak - mostly because he spoke the most and had to counter questions and attacks more, and largely did so well Truss - Confident, direct, painted it as her vs Rishi Kemi - Quieter, but when speaking mostly did well Tugendhat - had some moments, but largely irrelevant Mordaunt - Made no real impact
In order of debate winners
Truss - more substantial a figure than Mordaunt, and though she had some bad answers from my POV, nothing to sink her. From this I'd think she can overtake Mordaunt. Sunak - Still comes across well, and dealt with attacks mostly ok. Solidified his position with MPs I think. Tugendhat - was going nowhere and still is, so no change. Kemi - did not grab attention, felt like a bystander Mordaunt - eclipsed massively by Truss, had no standout moments.
Sunak's problem is not that he doesn't come across well, it is that he is too slick and won't understand people's concerns. What in tonight's debate provided evidence that addressed this?
He'll play the family card a lot, especially against Penny. It will make him a lot more relatable than a 49 year old divorced person with no kids (and no chance of kids). You could see Rishi, Kemi and Liz all push the family/kids based stuff because it makes them a lot more relatable and in general voters like for politicians to have a family/kids.
Didn't work so well for Leadsom v May.
Different era of politics and the key learning from that is to talk positively about one's own family/kids experiences rather than negatively about the opponent not having had those. Automatically the focus will switch to that subject.
5 years - different era?! I know things move fast but, I don't think so.
If it was a different era I guess the SNP can get that referendum after all.
Penny doesn’t really stand for much but she looks good and has a calm manner which is quite comforting . I like her voice and I think world leaders would be somewhat star struck when they meet her .
Not sure what the big deal is on a lack of detail , get a good team and job done .
Perhaps her Bondish Money Penny styling is clouding my judgement !
I like her too - but she's not bright or focused enough to be a good PM imo.
Sunak - mostly because he spoke the most and had to counter questions and attacks more, and largely did so well Truss - Confident, direct, painted it as her vs Rishi Kemi - Quieter, but when speaking mostly did well Tugendhat - had some moments, but largely irrelevant Mordaunt - Made no real impact
In order of debate winners
Truss - more substantial a figure than Mordaunt, and though she had some bad answers from my POV, nothing to sink her. From this I'd think she can overtake Mordaunt. Sunak - Still comes across well, and dealt with attacks mostly ok. Solidified his position with MPs I think. Tugendhat - was going nowhere and still is, so no change. Kemi - did not grab attention, felt like a bystander Mordaunt - eclipsed massively by Truss, had no standout moments.
Sunak's problem is not that he doesn't come across well, it is that he is too slick and won't understand people's concerns. What in tonight's debate provided evidence that addressed this?
I've never bought into the idea that slick presentation means you cannot understand peoples' concerns. I don't think politicians who imply such things believe it either, since they don't claim it if they/their leader presents well. It is just something they claim if they know they are not as good at presenting as their opponent, so it is fundamentally a dishonest attack when Rishi's counterparts imply it.
However, I agree that many do think that of Rishi (though I disagree it is because of his slickness), and agree he hasn't addressed that. How can he? If he says he understands people don't believe him.
It may not be fair but that is life. Sunak's problem is that he was in charge of the Treasury. So when you are making decisions that impact people's income, such as putting up NI, your personal circumstances are going to be even more in the spotlight if you are a very rich individual with a wife that has / had non-Dom status etc.
Sunak is the candidate Labour would love to face because any decision that has an impact on people's finances - as almost all will - will be contrasted with his wealth and status. It will be a 24 hour shitfest about Rich-y Rishi. And there are plenty of people out there with whom that message will resonate.
I am Labour and I can assure you this is not right. The one we want is Truss.
Penny doesn’t really stand for much but she looks good and has a calm manner which is quite comforting . I like her voice and I think world leaders would be somewhat star struck when they meet her .
Not sure what the big deal is on a lack of detail , get a good team and job done .
Perhaps her Bondish Money Penny styling is clouding my judgement !
I like her too - but she's not bright or focused enough to be a good PM imo.
I get what you’re saying . But our choices are limited given it’s only one of three . If Truss becomes PM it would be a tragedy for the country .
So, that Truss "why I am a Tory" speech - it was such bullshit. "I became a Tory because I saw kids at my school not getting on". Yes, with a Tory government. She then went to Uni. And joined the LibDems. very actively.
So no Liz, It Was A Lie.
Was under a Labour LEA, though. It’s a good story in my opinion, and a good contrast with Sunak.
So she decided the reason her school was poor was the Labour LEA and not the Tory government, and thats what made her join the Tories the Lib Dems.
Its about as sincere as every other lie she tells.
Is she a liar?
My issue with Liz is largely that I disagree with her “Britannia Unchained” ideology, that her Thatcher cosplay is nauseating, and that she’s been willing to spout Brexit nonsense like a zealot.
There’s an oddly concerted, oddly standardised way in which Twitter posts rubbishing the heatwave are focusing on supposed “colour inflation” on BBC maps (which is hilariously wrong, the colours are redder because it’s hotter - colour scheme has hardly changed) and the comparison of “2 days” vs that Blitz of boomer weather lore, 1976.
Either all these people are having the same idea at once, and using the same painstakingly archived material, or there’s something going on.
I suspect there’s something going on. How much did it cost, lads?
Hot weather like this has always happened. Someone posted the hottest temps going back a hundred years or so, and back in the early part of the 20th century there were 35 deg days on occasion. The difference is that climate change has shifted the dial a few degrees hotter, and hence what might have been mid thirties is likely to near or exceed 40. But 1976 was different for longevity. The hot for the next 48 hours is a plume event, 76 was a very different thing.
Yes 76 was a terrible year to be doing O levels. It still rankles that I only got a B in history.
I hope we still get Rishi and Penny as the final two because at least it keeps Liz Truss away from the membership. I suspect that Rishi would be able to mount a successful campaign against Penny now, given she hasn’t been able to clearly articulate her big picture. I worry about Rishi v Truss. I think she’d win.
If the last 3 are Penny, Rishi and Liz and Rishi was clearly in front in the penultimate round I expect him to lend some MPs to Penny to knock out Liz. The ERG would go beserk of course but it would probably be the best thing for Tory electability at the next general election
Is there any scenario where he's that far in front? He's still nearly 20 votes short, and there's no huge indication that he'd be way over the top. There is also polling suggesting he's got a better chance against Truss, and given it's likely to be close, he's surely better off trying to maximise his vote, so he can present himself as the clear favourite of MPs.
He doesn't come across as someone who would take even the smallest risk to his own chances, in order to help the party.
He is 2% ahead of Mordaunt but trails Truss by 7% with Conhome today, never mind the party's electability it might be the only way he can win the membership vote
Sunak - mostly because he spoke the most and had to counter questions and attacks more, and largely did so well Truss - Confident, direct, painted it as her vs Rishi Kemi - Quieter, but when speaking mostly did well Tugendhat - had some moments, but largely irrelevant Mordaunt - Made no real impact
In order of debate winners
Truss - more substantial a figure than Mordaunt, and though she had some bad answers from my POV, nothing to sink her. From this I'd think she can overtake Mordaunt. Sunak - Still comes across well, and dealt with attacks mostly ok. Solidified his position with MPs I think. Tugendhat - was going nowhere and still is, so no change. Kemi - did not grab attention, felt like a bystander Mordaunt - eclipsed massively by Truss, had no standout moments.
Sunak's problem is not that he doesn't come across well, it is that he is too slick and won't understand people's concerns. What in tonight's debate provided evidence that addressed this?
I've never bought into the idea that slick presentation means you cannot understand peoples' concerns. I don't think politicians who imply such things believe it either, since they don't claim it if they/their leader presents well. It is just something they claim if they know they are not as good at presenting as their opponent, so it is fundamentally a dishonest attack when Rishi's counterparts imply it.
However, I agree that many do think that of Rishi (though I disagree it is because of his slickness), and agree he hasn't addressed that. How can he? If he says he understands people don't believe him.
It may not be fair but that is life. Sunak's problem is that he was in charge of the Treasury. So when you are making decisions that impact people's income, such as putting up NI, your personal circumstances are going to be even more in the spotlight if you are a very rich individual with a wife that has / had non-Dom status etc.
Sunak is the candidate Labour would love to face because any decision that has an impact on people's finances - as almost all will - will be contrasted with his wealth and status. It will be a 24 hour shitfest about Rich-y Rishi. And there are plenty of people out there with whom that message will resonate.
I am Labour and I can assure you this is not right. The one we want is Truss.
MrEd loves to pretend he knows about Labour politics but has been shown to be a nonsense speaker before. I don’t think he’s ever met a Labour member.
Sunak - mostly because he spoke the most and had to counter questions and attacks more, and largely did so well Truss - Confident, direct, painted it as her vs Rishi Kemi - Quieter, but when speaking mostly did well Tugendhat - had some moments, but largely irrelevant Mordaunt - Made no real impact
In order of debate winners
Truss - more substantial a figure than Mordaunt, and though she had some bad answers from my POV, nothing to sink her. From this I'd think she can overtake Mordaunt. Sunak - Still comes across well, and dealt with attacks mostly ok. Solidified his position with MPs I think. Tugendhat - was going nowhere and still is, so no change. Kemi - did not grab attention, felt like a bystander Mordaunt - eclipsed massively by Truss, had no standout moments.
Sunak's problem is not that he doesn't come across well, it is that he is too slick and won't understand people's concerns. What in tonight's debate provided evidence that addressed this?
I've never bought into the idea that slick presentation means you cannot understand peoples' concerns. I don't think politicians who imply such things believe it either, since they don't claim it if they/their leader presents well. It is just something they claim if they know they are not as good at presenting as their opponent, so it is fundamentally a dishonest attack when Rishi's counterparts imply it.
However, I agree that many do think that of Rishi (though I disagree it is because of his slickness), and agree he hasn't addressed that. How can he? If he says he understands people don't believe him.
It may not be fair but that is life. Sunak's problem is that he was in charge of the Treasury. So when you are making decisions that impact people's income, such as putting up NI, your personal circumstances are going to be even more in the spotlight if you are a very rich individual with a wife that has / had non-Dom status etc.
Sunak is the candidate Labour would love to face because any decision that has an impact on people's finances - as almost all will - will be contrasted with his wealth and status. It will be a 24 hour shitfest about Rich-y Rishi. And there are plenty of people out there with whom that message will resonate.
I am Labour and I can assure you this is not right. The one we want is Truss.
Truss is a gift to Labour and Lib Dems, SNP too. Johnson without the jokes and personality.
There’s an oddly concerted, oddly standardised way in which Twitter posts rubbishing the heatwave are focusing on supposed “colour inflation” on BBC maps (which is hilariously wrong, the colours are redder because it’s hotter - colour scheme has hardly changed) and the comparison of “2 days” vs that Blitz of boomer weather lore, 1976.
Either all these people are having the same idea at once, and using the same painstakingly archived material, or there’s something going on.
I suspect there’s something going on. How much did it cost, lads?
Hot weather like this has always happened. Someone posted the hottest temps going back a hundred years or so, and back in the early part of the 20th century there were 35 deg days on occasion. The difference is that climate change has shifted the dial a few degrees hotter, and hence what might have been mid thirties is likely to near or exceed 40. But 1976 was different for longevity. The hot for the next 48 hours is a plume event, 76 was a very different thing.
Yes 76 was a terrible year to be doing O levels. It still rankles that I only got a B in history.
Lucky you - I got a D, same year. Probably not helped by the fact that I went fishing all night the night before the exam.
Sunak - mostly because he spoke the most and had to counter questions and attacks more, and largely did so well Truss - Confident, direct, painted it as her vs Rishi Kemi - Quieter, but when speaking mostly did well Tugendhat - had some moments, but largely irrelevant Mordaunt - Made no real impact
In order of debate winners
Truss - more substantial a figure than Mordaunt, and though she had some bad answers from my POV, nothing to sink her. From this I'd think she can overtake Mordaunt. Sunak - Still comes across well, and dealt with attacks mostly ok. Solidified his position with MPs I think. Tugendhat - was going nowhere and still is, so no change. Kemi - did not grab attention, felt like a bystander Mordaunt - eclipsed massively by Truss, had no standout moments.
Sunak's problem is not that he doesn't come across well, it is that he is too slick and won't understand people's concerns. What in tonight's debate provided evidence that addressed this?
I've never bought into the idea that slick presentation means you cannot understand peoples' concerns. I don't think politicians who imply such things believe it either, since they don't claim it if they/their leader presents well. It is just something they claim if they know they are not as good at presenting as their opponent, so it is fundamentally a dishonest attack when Rishi's counterparts imply it.
However, I agree that many do think that of Rishi (though I disagree it is because of his slickness), and agree he hasn't addressed that. How can he? If he says he understands people don't believe him.
It may not be fair but that is life. Sunak's problem is that he was in charge of the Treasury. So when you are making decisions that impact people's income, such as putting up NI, your personal circumstances are going to be even more in the spotlight if you are a very rich individual with a wife that has / had non-Dom status etc.
Sunak is the candidate Labour would love to face because any decision that has an impact on people's finances - as almost all will - will be contrasted with his wealth and status. It will be a 24 hour shitfest about Rich-y Rishi. And there are plenty of people out there with whom that message will resonate.
I am Labour and I can assure you this is not right. The one we want is Truss.
MrEd loves to pretend he knows about Labour politics but has been shown to be a nonsense speaker before. I don’t think he’s ever met a Labour member.
Horse loves to pretend he knows about me. I was a Labour member during the early Cameron years and met many. I have actually more friends and acquaintances who are left-leaning than right.
I do like you Horse but you do talk some Horse Shit sometimes.
Choosing Liz Truss as the next Conservative leader could set back the prospects of a recovery for the party in Scotland and undermine the Union, according to some of its leading lights north of the border.
With five candidates left, Scottish parliamentarians are split over who to support. However, the foreign secretary appears the least favoured so far among the six MPs and 31 MSPs. Sources said she was “too close to Boris”, “too right wing” and had “nothing particularly new to offer”.
This is not a good debate for Tugendhat. Much better for Truss and Mordaunt. Badenoch weaker than on Friday. Sunak still the frontrunner.
Surely Tom then Kemi are going out, so it depends on the transfers. I still think Truss is better placed on transfers, even though Mordaunt is the better performer, so it’s Sunak v Truss. I don’t know what happens then.
I have voted Tory in GEs for decades. With Boris around and Jezza gone I would vote Labour. Nothing I have heard so far would clearly shift me from Labour in its present fairly centrist mode.
Of the five candidates: Rishi: Tainted by association, and didn't resign in time. No. Truss: Just No. Mordaunt: Gives no reason to shift from a centrist Labour vote. No. Hat: Would pay attention, but with a bias against; but he can't win. Kemi: I would consider the options from the beginning. Everything in politics would change.
Comments
Rishi will try to run a “presidential” campaign, and Liz a guerilla one.
Having said that, I think on balance it will still be Rishi v Mordaunt, and I think Mordaunt did better tonight than on Friday.
https://www.betfair.com/exchange/plus/politics/market/1.160663234
Not sure what the big deal is on a lack of detail , get a good team and job done .
Perhaps her Bondish Money Penny styling is clouding my judgement !
Just as Khrushchev was still a drunken incompetent and mass murderer, but not nearly as bad as Stalin.
Tugendhat largely anonymous in a format that relied on attacking the other person.
Badenoch - thought her answer on Brexit was good, not really sure there was much else from her.
Truss just likes to read out her CV a lot.
Sunak the grown up in the room and everyone going after him just sort of proved it.
I'm just not sure she can drop any clanger big enough to ruin her chances against Sunak - she is the hard Brexiter's choice, many members don't like Rishi, and she is right she is an experienced minister, unlikely to make a devastating cock up.
But even allowing for that, it was just bad manners. I thought she was absolutely awful.
Tomorrow is going to be fearsome
Either all these people are having the same idea at once, and using the same painstakingly archived material, or there’s
something going on.
I suspect there’s something going on. How much did it cost, lads?
However, I agree that many do think that of Rishi (though I disagree it is because of his slickness), and agree he hasn't addressed that. How can he? If he says he understands people don't believe him.
If Tugendhat can overcome his natural diffidence, he may be Prime Minister one day, too. Badenoch needs several more years.
I don’t think Badenoch’s argument that Government can’t do anything is an attractive offer. (Is this her truth?)
Why are people saying Mordaunt was poor? This is a much better performance. Truss also better than Friday.
Make them stand an extra round at Annie's Bar?
I cannot bring myself to hope Truss wins . So for the good of the country anyone but Truss .
He did seem the only one who could crack a smile. Lighten the f*ck up candidates, we don't want a Caligula type libertine unconcerned with the problems of the day, but you could also try to cheer us with some optimism.
https://twitter.com/TomTugendhat/status/1548746680132112387
They’re both dream candidates for Labour
Rishi Sunak- Strong and calm and mostly under attack
Liz Truss - Firm verging on agressive and nasty
Penny Mordaunt - Mostly vague, I've gotta serve somebody (Dylan)
Kemi Badenoch - Mostly vague. lacked impact, disappointing
Tom Tugendhat - All he has is that he was in the army
Rishi or Liz could run a Cabinet but Rishi would do it more by agreement and Liz by direction.
She just is.
The difference is that climate change has shifted the dial a few degrees hotter, and hence what might have been mid thirties is likely to near or exceed 40.
But 1976 was different for longevity. The hot for the next 48 hours is a plume event, 76 was a very different thing.
Sunak is the only one who looks a serious candidate.
The Good Ship Penny seems to be at sea, and drifting.
So no Liz, It Was A Lie.
Sunak is the candidate Labour would love to face because any decision that has an impact on people's finances - as almost all will - will be contrasted with his wealth and status. It will be a 24 hour shitfest about Rich-y Rishi. And there are plenty of people out there with whom that message will resonate.
Tugendhat going after Mordaunt instead was interesting. It suggests, as I've speculated before, that his target is third and the Foreign Office. If Mordaunt crashes after tonight, he still has a decent chance of achieving that.
I’m pretty sure TT would endorse Mordaunt especially as she’s likely to be more re-assuring on defence spending and his supporters would want to stop Truss.
It would have been better to have Truss in 3rd place going into Tuesday’s vote , then it would have been all down to Badenochs supporters .
It’s a good story in my opinion, and a good contrast with Sunak.
That's the mistake Labour made.
I think it is too tricky to make work though. For one they'd need to judge it just right based on how the 4th place person's support would split, which is not easy. And for another it would be so obvious what he did that Sunak would look even more slippery, and probably torpedo his already poor chances with members.
Bedford, and Wittering both showing a 40°C Met Office forecast for Tuesday.
Both official Met Office stations, so we will be able to rely on the actual results.
https://community.netweather.tv/topic/97297-model-output-discussion-record-heat-arriving/page/192/#comments
Also the though that mulit-millionaire banker Rishi Sunak will be able to apply the common touch by 'playing the family card' is truly laughable.
You live in a cocoon Max.
the Toriesthe Lib Dems.Its about as sincere as every other lie she tells.
He doesn't come across as someone who would take even the smallest risk to his own chances, in order to help the party.
My issue with Liz is largely that I disagree with her “Britannia Unchained” ideology, that her Thatcher cosplay is nauseating, and that she’s been willing to spout Brexit nonsense like a zealot.
I don’t find her deceitful, especially.
Liz Is Crap Is Prime Minister.
I do like you Horse but you do talk some Horse Shit sometimes.
Choosing Liz Truss as the next Conservative leader could set back the prospects of a recovery for the party in Scotland and undermine the Union, according to some of its leading lights north of the border.
With five candidates left, Scottish parliamentarians are split over who to support. However, the foreign secretary appears the least favoured so far among the six MPs and 31 MSPs. Sources said she was “too close to Boris”, “too right wing” and had “nothing particularly new to offer”.
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Times
Time to soak the pots and hanging baskets.
This is not a good debate for Tugendhat. Much better for Truss and Mordaunt. Badenoch weaker than on Friday. Sunak still the frontrunner.
Surely Tom then Kemi are going out, so it depends on the transfers. I still think Truss is better placed on transfers, even though Mordaunt is the better performer, so it’s Sunak v Truss. I don’t know what happens then.
Of the five candidates:
Rishi: Tainted by association, and didn't resign in time. No.
Truss: Just No.
Mordaunt: Gives no reason to shift from a centrist Labour vote. No.
Hat: Would pay attention, but with a bias against; but he can't win.
Kemi: I would consider the options from the beginning. Everything in politics would change.