Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

A Tory coronation? – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 8,489
edited July 20 in General
imageA Tory coronation? – politicalbetting.com

Smarkets have this market on whether the Tories will do a 2016 and choose their new leader without the swivel eyed loonies Tory party members having the final say.

Read the full story here

«13456710

Comments

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 103,484
    Test
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 103,484
    Oh my, was that a first?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 79,096
    I wonder if they'll have a coronation again. Nothing wrong with it in principle, the MPs have to be happy with either final candidate, so if they are happy with a single one why not, but the members would be so angry and entitled about it I don't think they'll risk it.
  • TresTres Posts: 1,195
    edited July 17
    The obscure nature of the candidates makes the chances of pulling a Leadsome pretty high.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 26,306
    kle4 said:

    I wonder if they'll have a coronation again. Nothing wrong with it in principle, the MPs have to be happy with either final candidate, so if they are happy with a single one why not, but the members would be so angry and entitled about it I don't think they'll risk it.

    Bit odd, they're a bunch of monarchists only too happy to defend the concept of coronations in the wider UK state. But when it comes down to the nitty gritty they're a bunch of republicans.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 15,339
    I would suggest both parties switch to if a candidate gets 60% of MP votes they have a coronation, else it goes to a vote. (Ideally don't give the members a vote but that wont fly anymore).
  • OnboardG1OnboardG1 Posts: 1,228
    FPT: Economics Explained is a great YT channel.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 46,642
    What makes you think the MPs are less loony?

    I'd say the members are more sensible than them.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 41,362
    edited July 17
    No

    The ‘Leadsome clause’ added to the 1922 ctte rules.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 17,009
    edited July 17
    I think it would be inappropriate to discuss under what other circumstances Tories would be revolting.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 18,885
    Tory members today seem to be slightly younger than they were 20 or 30 years ago.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 15,339
    Andy_JS said:

    Tory members today seem to be slightly younger than they were 20 or 30 years ago.

    Impressive.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 41,362
    edited July 17

    What makes you think the MPs are less loony?

    I'd say the members are more sensible than them.

    Go over to ConHome, peruse the comments, then come back and tell us again?

    The mystery with the Tories is how any safe seat selection committee ever manages to decide that the likes of Bone or Swayne or Chope or Fabricant are the best people to represent their local area for decades to come…?

    Seriously - you’ve got a safe seat - so should have a veritable panoply of talent wanting to be your MP - how does such a place ever end up being represented by the likes of a brain-dead bigot like Chope?
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 7,277
    edited July 17
    What makes you think the swivel eyes loony’s (that’s my mum and dad you are referring to) will revolt just for the right to abstain in Rishy Penny ballot?

    EDIT. my Dad ain’t no swivel eyed loony 😍
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 79,096
    Carnyx said:

    kle4 said:

    I wonder if they'll have a coronation again. Nothing wrong with it in principle, the MPs have to be happy with either final candidate, so if they are happy with a single one why not, but the members would be so angry and entitled about it I don't think they'll risk it.

    Bit odd, they're a bunch of monarchists only too happy to defend the concept of coronations in the wider UK state. But when it comes down to the nitty gritty they're a bunch of republicans.
    My pet theory is that as party memberships have decreased, and thus the influence of individual members increased, they have become more and more expectant about the power and control they deserve.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 26,306
    Tres said:

    The obscure nature of the candidates makes the chances of pulling a Leadsome pretty high.

    I had to reread that as it evoked thoughts of Grab a Granny night at the Barrowland in Glasgow!
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 23,562
    Can't see it. There are too many factions.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 15,339
    edited July 17

    Test

    Incorrect again. It is an ODI today.

    Edit - Can't believe I have been beaten to it!
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 26,306
    IanB2 said:

    What makes you think the MPs are less loony?

    I'd say the members are more sensible than them.

    Go over to ConHome, peruse the comments, then come back and tell us again?

    The mystery with the Tories is how any safe seat selection committee ever manages to decide that the likes of Bone or Swayne or Chope are the best people to represent their local area for decades to come…?
    Quite, CR is skirting around the real issue.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 16,583
    Betfair next prime minister
    2.76 Rishi Sunak 36%
    2.9 Penny Mordaunt 34%
    6.6 Liz Truss 15%
    7.6 Kemi Badenoch 13%
    95 Tom Tugendhat
    130 Dominic Raab

    To make the final two
    1.09 Rishi Sunak 92%
    1.5 Penny Mordaunt 67%
    3.05 Liz Truss 33%
    5.3 Kemi Badenoch 19%
    48 Tom Tugendhat
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 2,403
    Innocent railway tunnel the coolest place I have found in Edinburgh so far. In an emergency...

    The heat is creeping upwards in the forecast, right? And why are there two seperate amber warnings - they appear to be the same, and over the same time period?
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 7,504
    Andy_JS said:

    Tory members today seem to be slightly younger than they were 20 or 30 years ago.

    Covid
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,459
    Eabhal said:

    Innocent railway tunnel the coolest place I have found in Edinburgh so far. In an emergency...

    The heat is creeping upwards in the forecast, right? And why are there two seperate amber warnings - they appear to be the same, and over the same time period?

    It's a mirage. Quite common in these conditions
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 18,885
    Elizabeth Line is one of the best cool places.
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 7,504
    Eabhal said:

    Innocent railway tunnel the coolest place I have found in Edinburgh so far. In an emergency...

    The heat is creeping upwards in the forecast, right? And why are there two seperate amber warnings - they appear to be the same, and over the same time period?

    I reckon Roslin Glen would be a good alternative too. Lots of shelter and water to keep the air cool.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 2,787
    dixiedean said:

    Can't see it. There are too many factions.

    Improper factions?
    Or top-heavy factions
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 16,583
    Eabhal said:

    Innocent railway tunnel the coolest place I have found in Edinburgh so far. In an emergency...

    The heat is creeping upwards in the forecast, right? And why are there two seperate amber warnings - they appear to be the same, and over the same time period?

    Latest Met Office video from an hour or so back says 33 in Edinburgh, 40 in London on Tuesday.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQnOqrGrisE
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 103,484
    Eabhal said:

    Innocent railway tunnel the coolest place I have found in Edinburgh so far. In an emergency...

    The heat is creeping upwards in the forecast, right? And why are there two seperate amber warnings - they appear to be the same, and over the same time period?

    The PB Tory lunch that JohnO and myself were having on Tuesday in London has been postponed because of the trains.

    They reckon with the speed restrictions in place a 2hr 9 minute from Sheffield to St Pancras will be closer to 4 hrs.

    LNER are not operating a trains between King's Cross and Leeds/York.
  • I genuinely think none of the candidates are any good.
  • Andy_JS said:

    Elizabeth Line is one of the best cool places.
    Proper air con, bigger trains.
  • novanova Posts: 365
    Surely no coronation, unless there's some kind of scandal/event which as a huge effect on one of the final two.

    The difference with 2016 is that May was clear favourite in the members polling as well as being overwhelming winner with MPs.

    This time Sunak may be ahead with MPs, but Truss or Mourdant may be ahead in members polls.

    I expect Sunak would also believe he can outperform those two in a campaign and at debates, so has a chance of turning things around even if he's initially behind with members.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 2,787
    IanB2 said:

    What makes you think the MPs are less loony?

    I'd say the members are more sensible than them.

    Go over to ConHome, peruse the comments, then come back and tell us again?

    The mystery with the Tories is how any safe seat selection committee ever manages to decide that the likes of Bone or Swayne or Chope or Fabricant are the best people to represent their local area for decades to come…?

    Seriously - you’ve got a safe seat - so should have a veritable panoply of talent wanting to be your MP - how does such a place ever end up being represented by the likes of a brain-dead bigot like Chope?
    Was it safe when he bought it? Sorry won it.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 43,105
    I don't even know how to think about this...

    Raab attacks Truss’s record as Tory leadership race enters critical 72 hours
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jul/17/raab-attacks-truss-record-tory-leadership-race-critical-72-hours
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 41,362

    I genuinely think none of the candidates are any good.

    CHB in ‘Tory MPs are generally crap and Johnson wouldn’t promote those few who were any good’ shocker….
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 16,583
    Nigelb said:

    I don't even know how to think about this...

    Raab attacks Truss’s record as Tory leadership race enters critical 72 hours
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jul/17/raab-attacks-truss-record-tory-leadership-race-critical-72-hours

    Has he met her?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 34,571
    Carnyx said:

    IanB2 said:

    What makes you think the MPs are less loony?

    I'd say the members are more sensible than them.

    Go over to ConHome, peruse the comments, then come back and tell us again?

    The mystery with the Tories is how any safe seat selection committee ever manages to decide that the likes of Bone or Swayne or Chope are the best people to represent their local area for decades to come…?
    Quite, CR is skirting around the real issue.
    He just wants someone to look up to.
  • No_Offence_AlanNo_Offence_Alan Posts: 2,926
    If the final MPs' vote is something like 130/120/110 I don't see how a "coronation" would work.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 102,987
    edited July 17
    About the only way this happens is if Mordaunt tops the final MPs ballot and Sunak is second and decides to drop out given he likely loses the membership vote.

    Truss and Badenoch and Mordaunt take it to the membership even if Rishi wins MPs as they likely win and the ERG would demand it with Truss and Badenoch against Sunak or Mordaunt. Rishi also takes it to the membership if Truss and Badenoch win the MPs vote as they are more hardline than Mordaunt and ideologically further from him and his supporters.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 2,787
    Leon not back from the cooler yet?

    I need someone to laugh at my jokes.....
  • IanB2 said:

    I genuinely think none of the candidates are any good.

    CHB in ‘Tory MPs are generally crap and Johnson wouldn’t promote those few who were any good’ shocker….
    You keeping well Ian?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 44,456
    Buttler throws it all away after all that patience. Lucky to make 250 now.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 15,339
    Nigelb said:

    I don't even know how to think about this...

    Raab attacks Truss’s record as Tory leadership race enters critical 72 hours
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jul/17/raab-attacks-truss-record-tory-leadership-race-critical-72-hours

    He really wants Chevening House all to himself.....
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 7,277
    Weather models putting quite a lot of rain on England and Wales Friday, Saturday, and Sunday Monday Tuesday in particular.

    Remember to wear a bra and take a brolly
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,459
    Nigelb said:

    I don't even know how to think about this...

    Raab attacks Truss’s record as Tory leadership race enters critical 72 hours
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jul/17/raab-attacks-truss-record-tory-leadership-race-critical-72-hours

    Sharp from Kemi

    Her successor as equalities minister, Kemi Badenoch, also running for the leadership, has said Mordaunt’s stance in the past was to push for self-identification. That contradicts Mordaunt’s insistence in Friday’s Channel 4 debate that she was “never in favour of self-ID”.

    Badenoch told the Sunday Times: “I’m not going to call her a liar, I think it’s very possible she genuinely did not understand what she was signing off. It’s a very complex area.”
  • IanB2 said:

    I genuinely think none of the candidates are any good.

    CHB in ‘Tory MPs are generally crap and Johnson wouldn’t promote those few who were any good’ shocker….
    Anyone who was any good got kicked out in 2019 by the clown....
    Rory would put this lot to shame. Can we have him back as PM please
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,401
    They should have an MPs vote between the final two. Only go to the members if both get, say, 40%+
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,459

    IanB2 said:

    I genuinely think none of the candidates are any good.

    CHB in ‘Tory MPs are generally crap and Johnson wouldn’t promote those few who were any good’ shocker….
    Anyone who was any good got kicked out in 2019 by the clown....
    Rory would put this lot to shame. Can we have him back as PM please
    Legend in his own lunchtime
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 43,105

    Nigelb said:

    I don't even know how to think about this...

    Raab attacks Truss’s record as Tory leadership race enters critical 72 hours
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jul/17/raab-attacks-truss-record-tory-leadership-race-critical-72-hours

    Has he met her?
    That's to assume any judgment on his part.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 41,362

    IanB2 said:

    I genuinely think none of the candidates are any good.

    CHB in ‘Tory MPs are generally crap and Johnson wouldn’t promote those few who were any good’ shocker….
    You keeping well Ian?
    Thankful we have the sea breeze here coming off the channel that will keep our local temps around 30C while the rest of you try out 40C for size…..
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 2,787
    IshmaelZ said:

    IanB2 said:

    I genuinely think none of the candidates are any good.

    CHB in ‘Tory MPs are generally crap and Johnson wouldn’t promote those few who were any good’ shocker….
    Anyone who was any good got kicked out in 2019 by the clown....
    Rory would put this lot to shame. Can we have him back as PM please
    Legend in his own lunchtime
    It was a work event......
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 2,787

    Weather models putting quite a lot of rain on England and Wales Friday, Saturday, and Sunday Monday Tuesday in particular.

    Remember to wear a bra and take a brolly

    Always do...
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 7,277

    IanB2 said:

    I genuinely think none of the candidates are any good.

    CHB in ‘Tory MPs are generally crap and Johnson wouldn’t promote those few who were any good’ shocker….
    Anyone who was any good got kicked out in 2019 by the clown....
    It’s interesting to think what this leadership election could be like, and the post Boris cabinet and policy’s if Boris merely reprimanded them, but allowed them to remain on back benches.

    Despite what HY is about to tell you about Boris having no choice, the fact is Boris didn’t need to - once he won 80 seat majority for oven ready Brexit his deal sailed through the house.

    Some people, like Hammond, thrown out a party had been in entire life having rebelled a whip just once.

    Anyone want to argue the Conservative party not struggling this week because of that vandalism by Boris. Come on. I am happy to put you in your place in that argument 😠
  • IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    I genuinely think none of the candidates are any good.

    CHB in ‘Tory MPs are generally crap and Johnson wouldn’t promote those few who were any good’ shocker….
    You keeping well Ian?
    Thankful we have the sea breeze here coming off the channel that will keep our local temps around 30C while the rest of you try out 40C for size…..
    39 now in SW London tomorrow - and I am playing cricket
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 7,277

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    I genuinely think none of the candidates are any good.

    CHB in ‘Tory MPs are generally crap and Johnson wouldn’t promote those few who were any good’ shocker….
    You keeping well Ian?
    Thankful we have the sea breeze here coming off the channel that will keep our local temps around 30C while the rest of you try out 40C for size…..
    39 now in SW London tomorrow - and I am playing cricket
    You mad dog, horse.
  • IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    I genuinely think none of the candidates are any good.

    CHB in ‘Tory MPs are generally crap and Johnson wouldn’t promote those few who were any good’ shocker….
    You keeping well Ian?
    Thankful we have the sea breeze here coming off the channel that will keep our local temps around 30C while the rest of you try out 40C for size…..
    39 now in SW London tomorrow - and I am playing cricket
    You mad dog, horse.
    Not my choice.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 7,277

    IanB2 said:

    I genuinely think none of the candidates are any good.

    CHB in ‘Tory MPs are generally crap and Johnson wouldn’t promote those few who were any good’ shocker….
    Anyone who was any good got kicked out in 2019 by the clown....
    It’s interesting to think what this leadership election could be like, and the post Boris cabinet and policy’s if Boris merely reprimanded them, but allowed them to remain on back benches.

    Despite what HY is about to tell you about Boris having no choice, the fact is Boris didn’t need to - once he won 80 seat majority for oven ready Brexit his deal sailed through the house.

    Some people, like Hammond, thrown out a party had been in entire life having rebelled a whip just once.

    Anyone want to argue the Conservative party not struggling this week because of that vandalism by Boris. Come on. I am happy to put you in your place in that argument 😠
    Come on. Who wants some 😠
  • https://twitter.com/PennyMordaunt/status/1548593906257989633

    "I'll get Brexit re-done and put more pounds in people's pockets if made Prime Minister."

    I genuinely think Penny might be a moron.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 41,362

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    I genuinely think none of the candidates are any good.

    CHB in ‘Tory MPs are generally crap and Johnson wouldn’t promote those few who were any good’ shocker….
    You keeping well Ian?
    Thankful we have the sea breeze here coming off the channel that will keep our local temps around 30C while the rest of you try out 40C for size…..
    39 now in SW London tomorrow - and I am playing cricket
    Sitting around waiting to bat or standing around on the offchance the ball comes in your direction are probably both relatively safe, provided you stand in the shade.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 45,495
    BTW, in this heat, for anyone that has never discovered them, a delightful treat are deep-frozen (seedless) grapes.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 30,688

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    I genuinely think none of the candidates are any good.

    CHB in ‘Tory MPs are generally crap and Johnson wouldn’t promote those few who were any good’ shocker….
    You keeping well Ian?
    Thankful we have the sea breeze here coming off the channel that will keep our local temps around 30C while the rest of you try out 40C for size…..
    39 now in SW London tomorrow - and I am playing cricket
    Get yourself to deep fine leg under a tree.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 1,974

    What makes you think the MPs are less loony?

    I'd say the members are more sensible than them.

    Michael Fabricant or @HYUFD to decide who is the next PM? Hmm. Scratches chin.
  • kinabalu said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    I genuinely think none of the candidates are any good.

    CHB in ‘Tory MPs are generally crap and Johnson wouldn’t promote those few who were any good’ shocker….
    You keeping well Ian?
    Thankful we have the sea breeze here coming off the channel that will keep our local temps around 30C while the rest of you try out 40C for size…..
    39 now in SW London tomorrow - and I am playing cricket
    Get yourself to deep fine leg under a tree.
    I will try. Are you keeping well?
  • Tom looks like a Halifax bank manager.
  • JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,085

    IanB2 said:

    I genuinely think none of the candidates are any good.

    CHB in ‘Tory MPs are generally crap and Johnson wouldn’t promote those few who were any good’ shocker….
    Anyone who was any good got kicked out in 2019 by the clown....
    Rory would put this lot to shame. Can we have him back as PM please
    I think we have more than enough alumni from Slough Comprehensive for at least another 20 years. Give Winchester Tech a chance.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 46,642
    IanB2 said:

    What makes you think the MPs are less loony?

    I'd say the members are more sensible than them.

    Go over to ConHome, peruse the comments, then come back and tell us again?

    The mystery with the Tories is how any safe seat selection committee ever manages to decide that the likes of Bone or Swayne or Chope or Fabricant are the best people to represent their local area for decades to come…?

    Seriously - you’ve got a safe seat - so should have a veritable panoply of talent wanting to be your MP - how does such a place ever end up being represented by the likes of a brain-dead bigot like Chope?
    There are 200k Tory members. How many do you think post on Con Home?

    I can think of four Tory members on here who don't, for example.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 46,642
    Andy_JS said:

    Elizabeth Line is one of the best cool places.
    I read that as Elizabeth Truss.
  • https://twitter.com/MichaelLamberta/status/1547879957895860224

    Liz Truss, like Boris Johnson has failed her way upwards. Even she is looking around and saying "can anyone else believe this?"
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 9,690
    All-Ireland hurling final this afternoon at 3:30pm. PP's odds are:
    Limerick 2/5
    Kilkenny 15/8
    Limerick highly fancied to win their third in a row, but it's 28C in Dublin this afternoon and Kilkenny have a younger team, so that may be to their advantage.
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,633

    What makes you think the MPs are less loony?

    I'd say the members are more sensible than them.

    Michael Fabricant or @HYUFD to decide who is the next PM? Hmm. Scratches chin.
    The point is that Fabricant gets a whole 0.3% of the votes available, while HYUFD gets something like 0.0005%.

    Anyway, the latter is currently backing probably the most centrist candidate left in, so I think you may be barking up the wrong tree. It's the nutters with the Liz Truss complex you really need to worry about.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 9,690
    Eabhal said:

    Innocent railway tunnel the coolest place I have found in Edinburgh so far. In an emergency...

    The heat is creeping upwards in the forecast, right? And why are there two seperate amber warnings - they appear to be the same, and over the same time period?

    The newer amber warning starts later.
  • OnboardG1OnboardG1 Posts: 1,228
    Endillion said:

    What makes you think the MPs are less loony?

    I'd say the members are more sensible than them.

    Michael Fabricant or @HYUFD to decide who is the next PM? Hmm. Scratches chin.
    The point is that Fabricant gets a whole 0.3% of the votes available, while HYUFD gets something like 0.0005%.

    Anyway, the latter is currently backing probably the most centrist candidate left in, so I think you may be barking up the wrong tree. It's the nutters with the Liz Truss complex you really need to worry about.
    HYFYD might have some potty views, but he’s always ruthless about asking “who is most likely to win the next election?”. He is not often wrong, even if IMO he places that priority too highly at times.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 9,690

    IanB2 said:

    I genuinely think none of the candidates are any good.

    CHB in ‘Tory MPs are generally crap and Johnson wouldn’t promote those few who were any good’ shocker….
    Anyone who was any good got kicked out in 2019 by the clown....
    Rory would put this lot to shame. Can we have him back as PM please
    I have a lot of time for Rory Stewart, but the number one requirement for being a successful politician is to convince others to support you, and he wasn't much good with that away from PB.com.
  • https://twitter.com/RidgeOnSunday/status/1548603614498897922

    'What Tory leadership candidate would you be most worried about fighting in a general election?' - #Ridge

    Labour's @bphillipsonMP: "I'm not worried about any of them."
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 15,440
    edited July 17
    Nigelb said:

    I don't even know how to think about this...

    Raab attacks Truss’s record as Tory leadership race enters critical 72 hours
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jul/17/raab-attacks-truss-record-tory-leadership-race-critical-72-hours

    The substance of his criticism - that Truss as Chief Secretary to the Treasury had an opportunity to reduce the civil service, but did not - strikes me as unfair.

    He is on stronger ground on inflation.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 30,688

    kinabalu said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    I genuinely think none of the candidates are any good.

    CHB in ‘Tory MPs are generally crap and Johnson wouldn’t promote those few who were any good’ shocker….
    You keeping well Ian?
    Thankful we have the sea breeze here coming off the channel that will keep our local temps around 30C while the rest of you try out 40C for size…..
    39 now in SW London tomorrow - and I am playing cricket
    Get yourself to deep fine leg under a tree.
    I will try. Are you keeping well?
    Good thanks yes. About to sink into the golf on tv.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 9,487

    I genuinely think none of the candidates are any good.

    I don’t think you are an entirely unbiased observer though.
    I like TT, but it maybe because I once knew his uncle, and he seems decent.

    If you think none of this lot are no good, is there any conservative that you rate?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 79,096
    alex_ said:

    They should have an MPs vote between the final two. Only go to the members if both get, say, 40%+

    Interesting option. Obviously today's party would not wish to be denied, but given the possibility of a close race for second (or even a close run thing between all the top 3), there is some merit in seeing what the final MP proportions would be at least.
  • TazTaz Posts: 5,818

    https://twitter.com/RidgeOnSunday/status/1548603614498897922

    'What Tory leadership candidate would you be most worried about fighting in a general election?' - #Ridge

    Labour's @bphillipsonMP: "I'm not worried about any of them."

    She’s not going to say anything else though.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 1,974

    Michael Fabricant or @HYUFD to decide who is the next PM? Hmm. Scratches chin.
    The point is that Fabricant gets a whole 0.3% of the votes available, while HYUFD gets something like 0.0005%.

    Anyway, the latter is currently backing probably the most centrist candidate left in, so I think you may be barking up the wrong tree. It's the nutters with the Liz Truss complex you really need to worry about.

    I was trying to be complimentary to @HYUFD. It obviously didn’t work.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 79,096
    edited July 17

    https://twitter.com/RidgeOnSunday/status/1548603614498897922

    'What Tory leadership candidate would you be most worried about fighting in a general election?' - #Ridge

    Labour's @bphillipsonMP: "I'm not worried about any of them."

    Why even ask such a silly question? What answer could we possibly think we would get?
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 17,189
    Neighbours' cat lying in the shade - sensible. However, his chosen patch of shade is on our patio, where the heat reflects from the south facing wall of the house, so less sensible. It was nudging 29degC out there 3 hours ago, so must be a bit scorchio now.

    Meanwhile 25.3degC in our living room with the curtains drawn.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 1,974
    Eabhal said:

    Innocent railway tunnel the coolest place I have found in Edinburgh so far. In an emergency...

    The heat is creeping upwards in the forecast, right? And why are there two seperate amber warnings - they appear to be the same, and over the same time period?

    Like here?
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 7,128

    Weather models putting quite a lot of rain on England and Wales Friday, Saturday, and Sunday Monday Tuesday in particular.

    Remember to wear a bra and take a brolly

    I always wear a bra when out shopping.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 9,487

    Weather models putting quite a lot of rain on England and Wales Friday, Saturday, and Sunday Monday Tuesday in particular.

    Remember to wear a bra and take a brolly

    Really? Nothing obvious from a quick look.
  • I genuinely think none of the candidates are any good.

    I don’t think you are an entirely unbiased observer though.
    I like TT, but it maybe because I once knew his uncle, and he seems decent.

    If you think none of this lot are no good, is there any conservative that you rate?
    Sunak is clearly the best and I wouldn't fear him as PM like I do Truss. But I sense he is not popular with the public.

    Ben Wallace is the only vaguely sensible one I've seen a bit from.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 9,487
    kinabalu said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    I genuinely think none of the candidates are any good.

    CHB in ‘Tory MPs are generally crap and Johnson wouldn’t promote those few who were any good’ shocker….
    You keeping well Ian?
    Thankful we have the sea breeze here coming off the channel that will keep our local temps around 30C while the rest of you try out 40C for size…..
    39 now in SW London tomorrow - and I am playing cricket
    Get yourself to deep fine leg under a tree.
    With all the other fielders...
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 15,440

    https://twitter.com/MichaelLamberta/status/1547879957895860224

    Liz Truss, like Boris Johnson has failed her way upwards. Even she is looking around and saying "can anyone else believe this?"

    Truss is not stupid, she just lacks a certain fluidity. That compilation is pretty weak evidence.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 18,495
    edited July 17
    FTP:
    Farooq said:

    Jonathan said:

    Cookie said:

    Jesus Christ.
    In case anyone was feeling unduly chipper, let me relate a conversation I just had.
    Walking down Great Ducie Street, Manchester, I saw an altercation between a gaunt looking fella in a tracksuit and a shabby looking old woman. I caught the eye of the fella, who apologised, and, in step, going in the same direction, explained himself: that was his mum, she was on heroin and couldn't sort himself out, and he was looking like being made homeless because she kept going round to his flat and causing trouble. And he was almost totally blind, as was his sister, having been born to a woman on heroin. And he had almost no teeth, since being hit in the face with a tire iron six months ago. And just one thing after another. Here was a fella who life took one gigantic shit on at the start followed by a succession of smaller but still substantial ones regularly along the way.
    I say this not to make any particular point but just to reflect on how unbelievably awful some people have it.

    A terrible tale. When I hear it, it reminds me why I vote Labour, that capitalism is not enough and that socialism would make a big difference. Capitalism is not kind to people who have bad luck.

    However, I also remember that history shows us that no single political ideology or that government has all the answers. So it's not as simple as voting left and all will be well. We need balance.

    So I really hope, somehow miraculously, our overall political culture manages to extract the best of right and left and maybe some new ideas and finds a way to make a better life for people with terrible luck.
    It's not really possible to make life better for people who don't have any luck. The best that can be done for those people is to believe that their luck can change.
    Scandinavia and Holland would beg to differ. There people's life chsnces are tilted in their favour.

    Despite the rhetoric, you're much less likely to be lucky in terms of social mobility in the U.S., because in fact most of the time, it's not actually luck.
    It is good to want to uplift people, but sometimes you can't. All you can really do is offer assistance and cooperation in their own decision to improve their life.
    There was a horrific and funny (if you like graveyard humour)story about the Nazi attempts to deal with social misfits - who were just as precedent then as today.

    They actually started from the premise of “saving” Aryans. So they tried all kinds of programs to rehabilitate alcoholics, support problem families etc. all surprisingly liberal and modern, really…

    The story went downhill from there. And ended up where you’d expect a Nazi social program to end up.
    The Nazis were quite good at some things. The above st
    nova said:

    Jonathan said:

    Cookie said:

    Jesus Christ.
    In case anyone was feeling unduly chipper, let me relate a conversation I just had.
    Walking down Great Ducie Street, Manchester, I saw an altercation between a gaunt looking fella in a tracksuit and a shabby looking old woman. I caught the eye of the fella, who apologised, and, in step, going in the same direction, explained himself: that was his mum, she was on heroin and couldn't sort himself out, and he was looking like being made homeless because she kept going round to his flat and causing trouble. And he was almost totally blind, as was his sister, having been born to a woman on heroin. And he had almost no teeth, since being hit in the face with a tire iron six months ago. And just one thing after another. Here was a fella who life took one gigantic shit on at the start followed by a succession of smaller but still substantial ones regularly along the way.
    I say this not to make any particular point but just to reflect on how unbelievably awful some people have it.

    A terrible tale. When I hear it, it reminds me why I vote Labour, that capitalism is not enough and that socialism would make a big difference. Capitalism is not kind to people who have bad luck.

    However, I also remember that history shows us that no single political ideology or that government has all the answers. So it's not as simple as voting left and all will be well. We need balance.

    So I really hope, somehow miraculously, our overall political culture manages to extract the best of right and left and maybe some new ideas and finds a way to make a better life for people with terrible luck.
    It's not really possible to make life better for people who don't have any luck. The best that can be done for those people is to believe that their luck can change.
    That's a pretty shocking statement.

    If a family member came round to my house and started causing trouble, the police might get involved, but there's virtually no chance my neighbours complaints would get me thrown out of a house I own.

    When was the last time you were in a situation where you could have been hit in the face by a tire iron? Someone in the situation he's described is much more likely to be a victim of violence.

    Is there no world in which his mum was given more support as a heroin user when she was pregnant, or as a new mum?

    It may be that random luck pushes one person closer to the edge than another, but there are plenty of ways that a society can help make sure the edge is just that bit further away.
    If the person is set on reaching that edge, they will do so. Others should, as I've said, be there to help that guy turn it around when he is ready to do so, but it has to start with him, and the starting point is his own belief that it can get just a little better, and easier, than it is today.
    I'm fascinated to know where the original comment was going, Ken.
    I thought someone might be.

    The Nazi emphasis on the healthy body, even on bodily perfection, was a good thing imo, which they completely ruined, and effectively abolished from polite discourse, by misidentifying the cause of it as racial, when it was environmental, and within that, primarily nutritional. And when the Nazis got something wrong, boy did they get it wrong.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 15,440

    FTP:

    Farooq said:

    Jonathan said:

    Cookie said:

    Jesus Christ.
    In case anyone was feeling unduly chipper, let me relate a conversation I just had.
    Walking down Great Ducie Street, Manchester, I saw an altercation between a gaunt looking fella in a tracksuit and a shabby looking old woman. I caught the eye of the fella, who apologised, and, in step, going in the same direction, explained himself: that was his mum, she was on heroin and couldn't sort himself out, and he was looking like being made homeless because she kept going round to his flat and causing trouble. And he was almost totally blind, as was his sister, having been born to a woman on heroin. And he had almost no teeth, since being hit in the face with a tire iron six months ago. And just one thing after another. Here was a fella who life took one gigantic shit on at the start followed by a succession of smaller but still substantial ones regularly along the way.
    I say this not to make any particular point but just to reflect on how unbelievably awful some people have it.

    A terrible tale. When I hear it, it reminds me why I vote Labour, that capitalism is not enough and that socialism would make a big difference. Capitalism is not kind to people who have bad luck.

    However, I also remember that history shows us that no single political ideology or that government has all the answers. So it's not as simple as voting left and all will be well. We need balance.

    So I really hope, somehow miraculously, our overall political culture manages to extract the best of right and left and maybe some new ideas and finds a way to make a better life for people with terrible luck.
    It's not really possible to make life better for people who don't have any luck. The best that can be done for those people is to believe that their luck can change.
    Scandinavia and Holland would beg to differ. There people's life chsnces are tilted in their favour.

    Despite the rhetoric, you're much less likely to be lucky in terms of social mobility in the U.S., because in fact most of the time, it's not actually luck.
    It is good to want to uplift people, but sometimes you can't. All you can really do is offer assistance and cooperation in their own decision to improve their life.
    There was a horrific and funny (if you like graveyard humour)story about the Nazi attempts to deal with social misfits - who were just as precedent then as today.

    They actually started from the premise of “saving” Aryans. So they tried all kinds of programs to rehabilitate alcoholics, support problem families etc. all surprisingly liberal and modern, really…

    The story went downhill from there. And ended up where you’d expect a Nazi social program to end up.
    The Nazis were quite good at some things. The above st
    nova said:

    Jonathan said:

    Cookie said:

    Jesus Christ.
    In case anyone was feeling unduly chipper, let me relate a conversation I just had.
    Walking down Great Ducie Street, Manchester, I saw an altercation between a gaunt looking fella in a tracksuit and a shabby looking old woman. I caught the eye of the fella, who apologised, and, in step, going in the same direction, explained himself: that was his mum, she was on heroin and couldn't sort himself out, and he was looking like being made homeless because she kept going round to his flat and causing trouble. And he was almost totally blind, as was his sister, having been born to a woman on heroin. And he had almost no teeth, since being hit in the face with a tire iron six months ago. And just one thing after another. Here was a fella who life took one gigantic shit on at the start followed by a succession of smaller but still substantial ones regularly along the way.
    I say this not to make any particular point but just to reflect on how unbelievably awful some people have it.

    A terrible tale. When I hear it, it reminds me why I vote Labour, that capitalism is not enough and that socialism would make a big difference. Capitalism is not kind to people who have bad luck.

    However, I also remember that history shows us that no single political ideology or that government has all the answers. So it's not as simple as voting left and all will be well. We need balance.

    So I really hope, somehow miraculously, our overall political culture manages to extract the best of right and left and maybe some new ideas and finds a way to make a better life for people with terrible luck.
    It's not really possible to make life better for people who don't have any luck. The best that can be done for those people is to believe that their luck can change.
    That's a pretty shocking statement.

    If a family member came round to my house and started causing trouble, the police might get involved, but there's virtually no chance my neighbours complaints would get me thrown out of a house I own.

    When was the last time you were in a situation where you could have been hit in the face by a tire iron? Someone in the situation he's described is much more likely to be a victim of violence.

    Is there no world in which his mum was given more support as a heroin user when she was pregnant, or as a new mum?

    It may be that random luck pushes one person closer to the edge than another, but there are plenty of ways that a society can help make sure the edge is just that bit further away.
    If the person is set on reaching that edge, they will do so. Others should, as I've said, be there to help that guy turn it around when he is ready to do so, but it has to start with him, and the starting point is his own belief that it can get just a little better, and easier, than it is today.
    I'm fascinated to know where the original comment was going, Ken.
    I thought someone might be.

    The Nazi emphasis on the healthy body, even on bodily perfection, was a good thing imo, which they completely ruined, and effectively abolished from polite discourse, by misidentifying the cause of it as racial, when it was environmental, and within that, primarily nutritional. And when the Nazis got something wrong, boy did they get it wrong.
    Jesus Christ.

    Do you have a perfect body, LuckyGuy?
    And if not, why not?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 23,562
    edited July 17
    Heat noticeably building over the last couple of hours here.
    7 degrees in less than 3 hours.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 79,096
    Always bat out your 50, England. Silly people.
  • FTP:

    Farooq said:

    Jonathan said:

    Cookie said:

    Jesus Christ.
    In case anyone was feeling unduly chipper, let me relate a conversation I just had.
    Walking down Great Ducie Street, Manchester, I saw an altercation between a gaunt looking fella in a tracksuit and a shabby looking old woman. I caught the eye of the fella, who apologised, and, in step, going in the same direction, explained himself: that was his mum, she was on heroin and couldn't sort himself out, and he was looking like being made homeless because she kept going round to his flat and causing trouble. And he was almost totally blind, as was his sister, having been born to a woman on heroin. And he had almost no teeth, since being hit in the face with a tire iron six months ago. And just one thing after another. Here was a fella who life took one gigantic shit on at the start followed by a succession of smaller but still substantial ones regularly along the way.
    I say this not to make any particular point but just to reflect on how unbelievably awful some people have it.

    A terrible tale. When I hear it, it reminds me why I vote Labour, that capitalism is not enough and that socialism would make a big difference. Capitalism is not kind to people who have bad luck.

    However, I also remember that history shows us that no single political ideology or that government has all the answers. So it's not as simple as voting left and all will be well. We need balance.

    So I really hope, somehow miraculously, our overall political culture manages to extract the best of right and left and maybe some new ideas and finds a way to make a better life for people with terrible luck.
    It's not really possible to make life better for people who don't have any luck. The best that can be done for those people is to believe that their luck can change.
    Scandinavia and Holland would beg to differ. There people's life chsnces are tilted in their favour.

    Despite the rhetoric, you're much less likely to be lucky in terms of social mobility in the U.S., because in fact most of the time, it's not actually luck.
    It is good to want to uplift people, but sometimes you can't. All you can really do is offer assistance and cooperation in their own decision to improve their life.
    There was a horrific and funny (if you like graveyard humour)story about the Nazi attempts to deal with social misfits - who were just as precedent then as today.

    They actually started from the premise of “saving” Aryans. So they tried all kinds of programs to rehabilitate alcoholics, support problem families etc. all surprisingly liberal and modern, really…

    The story went downhill from there. And ended up where you’d expect a Nazi social program to end up.
    The Nazis were quite good at some things. The above st
    nova said:

    Jonathan said:

    Cookie said:

    Jesus Christ.
    In case anyone was feeling unduly chipper, let me relate a conversation I just had.
    Walking down Great Ducie Street, Manchester, I saw an altercation between a gaunt looking fella in a tracksuit and a shabby looking old woman. I caught the eye of the fella, who apologised, and, in step, going in the same direction, explained himself: that was his mum, she was on heroin and couldn't sort himself out, and he was looking like being made homeless because she kept going round to his flat and causing trouble. And he was almost totally blind, as was his sister, having been born to a woman on heroin. And he had almost no teeth, since being hit in the face with a tire iron six months ago. And just one thing after another. Here was a fella who life took one gigantic shit on at the start followed by a succession of smaller but still substantial ones regularly along the way.
    I say this not to make any particular point but just to reflect on how unbelievably awful some people have it.

    A terrible tale. When I hear it, it reminds me why I vote Labour, that capitalism is not enough and that socialism would make a big difference. Capitalism is not kind to people who have bad luck.

    However, I also remember that history shows us that no single political ideology or that government has all the answers. So it's not as simple as voting left and all will be well. We need balance.

    So I really hope, somehow miraculously, our overall political culture manages to extract the best of right and left and maybe some new ideas and finds a way to make a better life for people with terrible luck.
    It's not really possible to make life better for people who don't have any luck. The best that can be done for those people is to believe that their luck can change.
    That's a pretty shocking statement.

    If a family member came round to my house and started causing trouble, the police might get involved, but there's virtually no chance my neighbours complaints would get me thrown out of a house I own.

    When was the last time you were in a situation where you could have been hit in the face by a tire iron? Someone in the situation he's described is much more likely to be a victim of violence.

    Is there no world in which his mum was given more support as a heroin user when she was pregnant, or as a new mum?

    It may be that random luck pushes one person closer to the edge than another, but there are plenty of ways that a society can help make sure the edge is just that bit further away.
    If the person is set on reaching that edge, they will do so. Others should, as I've said, be there to help that guy turn it around when he is ready to do so, but it has to start with him, and the starting point is his own belief that it can get just a little better, and easier, than it is today.
    I'm fascinated to know where the original comment was going, Ken.
    I thought someone might be.

    The Nazi emphasis on the healthy body, even on bodily perfection, was a good thing imo, which they completely ruined, and effectively abolished from polite discourse, by misidentifying the cause of it as racial, when it was environmental, and within that, primarily nutritional. And when the Nazis got something wrong, boy did they get it wrong.
    My God you are a fruit loop.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 9,487
    260 to win? I think either a really tight match, or India at a canter.
  • murali_smurali_s Posts: 2,915

    I genuinely think none of the candidates are any good.

    I don’t think you are an entirely unbiased observer though.
    I like TT, but it maybe because I once knew his uncle, and he seems decent.

    If you think none of this lot are no good, is there any conservative that you rate?
    TT is by far the best candidate (nearest to Heseltine, Major, Kenneth Clarke). I guess the Tories are looking for someone far more swivel eyed.

    Sunak is vaguely competent, the rest are pretty hopeless.

  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 18,495

    IanB2 said:

    I genuinely think none of the candidates are any good.

    CHB in ‘Tory MPs are generally crap and Johnson wouldn’t promote those few who were any good’ shocker….
    Anyone who was any good got kicked out in 2019 by the clown....
    Rory would put this lot to shame. Can we have him back as PM please
    He's just the Tommy Tug End/Cleggasm of his day. The 'great white hope' figure. Pretty illusory imo; if the media decided to do a Penny on him, he'd have looked worse than the rest.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 15,339

    IanB2 said:

    I genuinely think none of the candidates are any good.

    CHB in ‘Tory MPs are generally crap and Johnson wouldn’t promote those few who were any good’ shocker….
    Anyone who was any good got kicked out in 2019 by the clown....
    Rory would put this lot to shame. Can we have him back as PM please
    I have a lot of time for Rory Stewart, but the number one requirement for being a successful politician is to convince others to support you, and he wasn't much good with that away from PB.com.
    That is a bit unfair. He won both TV debates in the 2019 leadership election despite being one of the most junior candidates. In the last yougov polling with the general public before he was knocked out he was ranked second behind Johnson, albeit only on 7% as 46% went for no-one or don't know.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 22,537

    FTP:

    Farooq said:

    Jonathan said:

    Cookie said:

    Jesus Christ.
    In case anyone was feeling unduly chipper, let me relate a conversation I just had.
    Walking down Great Ducie Street, Manchester, I saw an altercation between a gaunt looking fella in a tracksuit and a shabby looking old woman. I caught the eye of the fella, who apologised, and, in step, going in the same direction, explained himself: that was his mum, she was on heroin and couldn't sort himself out, and he was looking like being made homeless because she kept going round to his flat and causing trouble. And he was almost totally blind, as was his sister, having been born to a woman on heroin. And he had almost no teeth, since being hit in the face with a tire iron six months ago. And just one thing after another. Here was a fella who life took one gigantic shit on at the start followed by a succession of smaller but still substantial ones regularly along the way.
    I say this not to make any particular point but just to reflect on how unbelievably awful some people have it.

    A terrible tale. When I hear it, it reminds me why I vote Labour, that capitalism is not enough and that socialism would make a big difference. Capitalism is not kind to people who have bad luck.

    However, I also remember that history shows us that no single political ideology or that government has all the answers. So it's not as simple as voting left and all will be well. We need balance.

    So I really hope, somehow miraculously, our overall political culture manages to extract the best of right and left and maybe some new ideas and finds a way to make a better life for people with terrible luck.
    It's not really possible to make life better for people who don't have any luck. The best that can be done for those people is to believe that their luck can change.
    Scandinavia and Holland would beg to differ. There people's life chsnces are tilted in their favour.

    Despite the rhetoric, you're much less likely to be lucky in terms of social mobility in the U.S., because in fact most of the time, it's not actually luck.
    It is good to want to uplift people, but sometimes you can't. All you can really do is offer assistance and cooperation in their own decision to improve their life.
    There was a horrific and funny (if you like graveyard humour)story about the Nazi attempts to deal with social misfits - who were just as precedent then as today.

    They actually started from the premise of “saving” Aryans. So they tried all kinds of programs to rehabilitate alcoholics, support problem families etc. all surprisingly liberal and modern, really…

    The story went downhill from there. And ended up where you’d expect a Nazi social program to end up.
    The Nazis were quite good at some things. The above st
    nova said:

    Jonathan said:

    Cookie said:

    Jesus Christ.
    In case anyone was feeling unduly chipper, let me relate a conversation I just had.
    Walking down Great Ducie Street, Manchester, I saw an altercation between a gaunt looking fella in a tracksuit and a shabby looking old woman. I caught the eye of the fella, who apologised, and, in step, going in the same direction, explained himself: that was his mum, she was on heroin and couldn't sort himself out, and he was looking like being made homeless because she kept going round to his flat and causing trouble. And he was almost totally blind, as was his sister, having been born to a woman on heroin. And he had almost no teeth, since being hit in the face with a tire iron six months ago. And just one thing after another. Here was a fella who life took one gigantic shit on at the start followed by a succession of smaller but still substantial ones regularly along the way.
    I say this not to make any particular point but just to reflect on how unbelievably awful some people have it.

    A terrible tale. When I hear it, it reminds me why I vote Labour, that capitalism is not enough and that socialism would make a big difference. Capitalism is not kind to people who have bad luck.

    However, I also remember that history shows us that no single political ideology or that government has all the answers. So it's not as simple as voting left and all will be well. We need balance.

    So I really hope, somehow miraculously, our overall political culture manages to extract the best of right and left and maybe some new ideas and finds a way to make a better life for people with terrible luck.
    It's not really possible to make life better for people who don't have any luck. The best that can be done for those people is to believe that their luck can change.
    That's a pretty shocking statement.

    If a family member came round to my house and started causing trouble, the police might get involved, but there's virtually no chance my neighbours complaints would get me thrown out of a house I own.

    When was the last time you were in a situation where you could have been hit in the face by a tire iron? Someone in the situation he's described is much more likely to be a victim of violence.

    Is there no world in which his mum was given more support as a heroin user when she was pregnant, or as a new mum?

    It may be that random luck pushes one person closer to the edge than another, but there are plenty of ways that a society can help make sure the edge is just that bit further away.
    If the person is set on reaching that edge, they will do so. Others should, as I've said, be there to help that guy turn it around when he is ready to do so, but it has to start with him, and the starting point is his own belief that it can get just a little better, and easier, than it is today.
    I'm fascinated to know where the original comment was going, Ken.
    I thought someone might be.

    The Nazi emphasis on the healthy body, even on bodily perfection, was a good thing imo, which they completely ruined, and effectively abolished from polite discourse, by misidentifying the cause of it as racial, when it was environmental, and within that, primarily nutritional. And when the Nazis got something wrong, boy did they get it wrong.
    Jesus Christ.

    Do you have a perfect body, LuckyGuy?
    And if not, why not?
    Unbelievable.

    I'd have been wheeled into the gas chamber - no doubt.
This discussion has been closed.