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Boris Johnson learned nothing from Pinchergate – politicalbetting.com

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  • DM_AndyDM_Andy Posts: 1,127

    DM_Andy said:

    HYUFD said:

    John Redwood this morning accuses Rishi Sunak of running on 'John Major policies backed by grandees'

    https://twitter.com/johnredwood/status/1545996978819055616?s=20&t=rPjG5Cr8D8916dZJy8MG7Q

    John Major did win, unexpectedly, the 1992 general election.

    I'm not sure why Major gets such grief when you can argue 1992 was an amazing result.
    That's only a fair table if it's prorated against the size of the electorate at each of those elections.
    That's a point, but it basically turns the table into a comparison of election performance while there wasn't a significant third party.

    Major's 1992 performance drops to 17th on this measure but that's still better than anything since Thatcher 1979. Boris's "Fourteen Million Voters" only gets him 24th, Edward Heath beats that 3 times (1966, 1970 and Feb 1974)
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,207
    rcs1000 said:

    Foxy said:

    darkage said:

    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    kjh said:

    Interested stat that death rates are running at 1300 or 14% higher than norm per week and it is not known why. Hypotheses include undiagnosed stuff during COVID, people damaged by COVID, damage done to NHS by COVID. All seem to be tangentially related to COVID even though deaths are not people with COVID.

    Yes, that has been surfacing over the last week or two. I think the favourite is the problems people were having seeing their GP/consultant for the best part of 2 years during which conditions metastized beyond the treatable.
    No, I don't think that the case.

    Peak excess deaths, even when not having covid written on the death certificate, have very much the same pattern as the covid pandemic waves, with a slight lag.

    Missed and neglected non-covid disease certainly exists, but it wouldn't follow that pattern, but would occur fairly evenly across peaks and troughs.

    I think most are related to undiagnosed covid, and in particular to the cardiovascular and cerebrovascular effects of infection.
    Perhaps it is the case that we have come to the eventual (unacknowledged) conclusion that, after 2 years of trying to control the virus, we have to live with a higher death rate?

    It is going to be around long term, but who knows how virulent.

    I think there is a place for passive infection control measures such as ventilation and air filtration, avoiding overcrowding in enclosed spaces, appropriate hygiene and WFH when symptomatic etc. Certainly I would want to continue public health surveillance and vaccination of the vulnerable.

    Just because we cannot eliminate it, doesn't
    mean doing nothing. No one is calling for further lockdowns etc, but non intrusive interventions seem reasonable.
    I noticed in Waitrose in Cowbridge yesterday there was around 10% maskage, mostly over 60s. Up from zero a few weeks ago.
    I was in a gun shop in East LA today (don't ask), and there were a significant number of people wearing masks (like 15-20%).
    So the CCTV doesn't trip a nutter alert?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,872
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Roger said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Barnesian said:

    Scott_xP said:

    BREAKING: Penny Mordaunt launches her bid to be leader https://twitter.com/pennymordaunt/status/1546049184373121024

    A great line


    Very very good

    Puts Ready for Rishi* in its place

    *Sounds like an arch way of asking your partner whether they have lubed up.

    My top 3 now Tom, kemi, penny
    I hated everything about that Mordaunt video. It was just awful. The VO (probably Gyles Brandreth) was portentious to the point of being sick making. If you were burying the Queen it might have been suitable but as it is it was old fashioned fuddy duddy pompous nonsense.

    The only saving grace was 'PM4PM' which was cute

    Thats goodbye Shapps Mordaunt and Hunt....
    There we have it. Roger has spoken.

    We can be 100% confident it's an excellent video for the contest.

    Well there's little doubt that Casino, who reacted positively, is rather closer to the target market than is Roger.

    That’s a bloody brilliant video

    It gave me the Patiriotic Tinglez several times. And if it is doing that to me, a drunken and debauched cynic washed up on the karstic shores of Montenegro, what is it doing to Conservative Members? They are probably spaffing all over this morning’s Wordle

    This video is a smart missile targeted superbly at its intended audience, not me or you, not Britain or the world, but 200,000 mostly older, highly patriotic people in middle England, mainly in the south, who often found Boris amusing but despaired of his amorality, and who still yearn for Maggie

    Tick tick tick tick tick. Alongside her clever rebuttal of the Woke stuff last night, she’s had an excellent weekend. Barring revelations, she might be the one to beat - and if she makes the final two I reckon she wins against anyone else
    "I vow to thee" was the perfect tune for it.
    Yes, great choice

    I’m not sure the voiceover is Michael Howard or Gyles Brandreth, tho it sounds a bit LIKE them. A professional actor?

    I vastly preferred La Mord’s vid to Sunak’s glossy corporate bollocks, or Suella’s eerie girlning, and her declaration that Britain is great BECAUSE we are going to deport migrants to Rwanda

    I mean, I’m quite draconian about illegal immigration, but Jeez

    I also noted that Suella and Sunak do that *two hands thrust forward at the same time* thingy, a bizarre gesture never seen in normal life. They’ve obviously been told it looks better on camera, like that infamous “stand with your legs three metres apart” advice

    It looks just as odd. Stop it
    It's noteworthy that Kemi has overtaken Braverman in MP endorsements already, despite starting behind her.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,477
    edited July 2022

    DavidL said:

    Scott_xP said:

    BREAKING: Penny Mordaunt launches her bid to be leader https://twitter.com/pennymordaunt/status/1546049184373121024

    That is a deeply ordinary video. Having Boris in it was a mistake. Having platitudes and cliches at every turn when her first priority is to actually improve name awareness and distinctiveness is just daft. Really quite disappointed.
    I think the video is OK. Yes, it's deeply cliched in visuals and soundtrack, but I don't think Penny should be aiming to look like she's got a cutting edge advertising team behind it. She should leave that to Sunak. The only real mistake I think was having the Martin Jarvis-esque narrator. She should have done it herself.

    There is a big Boris fanbase out there, and Penny was not directly involved in his fall, so why not feature him?

    She is also right to say not to choose the leader based on agreeing with everything they say, but on you trusting their motives, and that's 100% true, and something I said here myself.

    What makes it all for me is the slogan - it's very good.
    Boris was joking: let's get breakfast done.

    Mordaunt's video is also three minutes long, which is pushing it. I vow to thee is a stirring tune but one I associate with state funerals: Churchill; Lady Di; Mrs T; Prince Philip. For those who sang it at school, it might be different. Some of the visuals are a bit strong, and the White guy giving the Black chap a chance might look a bit patronising but perhaps most will not notice.

    But I suppose the main thing is that most people will only watch it once, rather than three times an hour in Coronation Street.
  • DavidL said:

    Scott_xP said:

    BREAKING: Penny Mordaunt launches her bid to be leader https://twitter.com/pennymordaunt/status/1546049184373121024

    That is a deeply ordinary video. Having Boris in it was a mistake. Having platitudes and cliches at every turn when her first priority is to actually improve name awareness and distinctiveness is just daft. Really quite disappointed.
    I think the video is OK. Yes, it's deeply cliched in visuals and soundtrack, but I don't think Penny should be aiming to look like she's got a cutting edge advertising team behind it. She should leave that to Sunak. The only real mistake I think was having the Martin Jarvis-esque narrator. She should have done it herself.

    There is a big Boris fanbase out there, and Penny was not directly involved in his fall, so why not feature him?

    She is also right to say not to choose the leader based on agreeing with everything they say, but on you trusting their motives, and that's 100% true, and something I said here myself.

    What makes it all for me is the slogan - it's very good.





    I thought the video was OK but took too long getting to the point. A rebuttal to Rishi's which was all about him.

    I'm more impressed by the 18 endorsements she has gained, pushing her up to 18.

    I see Patel has 5 now, going past Javid, which I guess means she's going to run
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,497
    Jonathan said:

    I knew I’d seen Penny’s video before. Enjoy…

    https://youtu.be/T72TopWbXJg

    Wow!
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    rcs1000 said:

    Foxy said:

    darkage said:

    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    kjh said:

    Interested stat that death rates are running at 1300 or 14% higher than norm per week and it is not known why. Hypotheses include undiagnosed stuff during COVID, people damaged by COVID, damage done to NHS by COVID. All seem to be tangentially related to COVID even though deaths are not people with COVID.

    Yes, that has been surfacing over the last week or two. I think the favourite is the problems people were having seeing their GP/consultant for the best part of 2 years during which conditions metastized beyond the treatable.
    No, I don't think that the case.

    Peak excess deaths, even when not having covid written on the death certificate, have very much the same pattern as the covid pandemic waves, with a slight lag.

    Missed and neglected non-covid disease certainly exists, but it wouldn't follow that pattern, but would occur fairly evenly across peaks and troughs.

    I think most are related to undiagnosed covid, and in particular to the cardiovascular and cerebrovascular effects of infection.
    Perhaps it is the case that we have come to the eventual (unacknowledged) conclusion that, after 2 years of trying to control the virus, we have to live with a higher death rate?

    It is going to be around long term, but who knows how virulent.

    I think there is a place for passive infection control measures such as ventilation and air filtration, avoiding overcrowding in enclosed spaces, appropriate hygiene and WFH when symptomatic etc. Certainly I would want to continue public health surveillance and vaccination of the vulnerable.

    Just because we cannot eliminate it, doesn't
    mean doing nothing. No one is calling for further lockdowns etc, but non intrusive interventions seem reasonable.
    I noticed in Waitrose in Cowbridge yesterday there was around 10% maskage, mostly over 60s. Up from zero a few weeks ago.
    I was in a gun shop in East LA today (don't ask), and there were a significant number of people wearing masks (like 15-20%).
    So the CCTV doesn't trip a nutter alert?
    Playing with fire insulting @rcs1000 like that
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,872
    Fuck it.

    I'm going in heavily against Zahawi and Javid.

    They're not going to make it.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,207
    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Penny has declared.

    Glad to be wrong on that. She is best of the candidates. Good speaker, well presented, some vision, and socially liberal.

    If it wasn't for her Brexitism, I could vote for her.
    Badenoch, Tugendhat and Mordaunt are my choices.

    I am concerned about the Wokeness of Penny, but she could convince me.
    Having a leader with at least half a foot in the modern world is surely an advantage for a political party?
    For me, the issue is: who terrifies Labour the most?

    I doubt Labour worries much beyond Mordaunt on that list.

    Ditto the LibDems.
    According to Opinium last night Sunak or Tugendhat should worry Labour most, both have a net 1% more saying they would make good PMs than bad.

    Mordaunt has a net 1% saying she would make a bad PM, Truss has a net 14% saying she would make a bad PM, Hunt has a net 18% saying he would make a bad PM

    https://twitter.com/OpiniumResearch/status/1545850475840503811?s=20&t=rPjG5Cr8D8916dZJy8MG7Q

    I remain to be convinced most people have a clue who Mordaunt or Tugendhat are. Heck I’m not sure many people could pick Liz Truss out of an identity parade.
    Yes, in that survey about 60% had no opinion on either Maudaunt or Tugenhat, so that 1% positivity is thinly based.
    It is meaningless, as those deciding the two who the membership get to vote on are very well known to the initial electorate - Conservative MPs.
  • MrEd said:

    Hunt on BBC

    pro Rwanda policy

    against abolishing BBC license

    pro net zero by 2050

    no indyref2 for 10 years

    will not lockdown again

    Esther McVey deputy PM

    Esther McVey as deputy is interesting because until this morning, she was not listed as endorsing him. Does Hunt have a list of non-public endorsements lined up to imply momentum, or just her?
    FWIW, I think McVey as Deputy is a very smart move by Hunt. Not only does it give the ERG some reassurance but she's also got kudos with the Red Wall MPs and provided a lot of the thinking around levelling up. She also negates the effect of Rayner when it comes to having a chippy Northerner.

    I think this helps Hunt a lot.

    The Philip Davies endorsement makes a lot more sense now
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,477
    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    Unless she has skeletons in the closet, in sexy leather, it has to be Mordaunt if the Tories actually want to WIN the next election

    She’s the only one without some dramatic flaw

    Sunak: way too rich, non dom, “I don’t know a working class person”, 2 foot high
    Javid: deathly dull, bald, so so dull, merchant banker
    Zahawi: being investigated for tax, was chancellor for 3 minutes (why?), bald, hmm that PPE thing
    Truss: deeply strange, was a Lib Dem, was a Remainer, republican, allegedly mad, just a bad fit
    Braverman: thinks sending people to Rwanda makes us great
    Badenoch: who? Also about 13 years old
    Hunt: rat-eyed mannequin Remainer
    Grant Shapps: lol, wig

    And then, Mordaunt: attractive, sane, intelligent, not posh!, sound on Brexit and defence, will appeal to Red Wall

    The only downsides I can see at the moment (more will emerge) are her single status and childlessness, but - really - should that matter? I don’t give a fig but some might. Also she is relatively inexperienced but then, so was Maggie. She is allegedly Woke but she persuasively rebutted that yesterday

    Do it, Tories. PM for PM!

    You missed one, PB4TOMT

    But then again: French Jew with German surname, forrin wife, remainer. So reluctantly probably PM4PM4PB.
    If you are right about Tugendhat's religion, he will be miffed that the Jewish Chronicle has gone with Grant Shapps.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,557
    Jonathan said:

    I knew I’d seen Penny’s video before. Enjoy…

    https://youtu.be/T72TopWbXJg

    Hahaha

    Genius, God I miss Chris Morris
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,872
    DM_Andy said:


    DM_Andy said:

    HYUFD said:

    John Redwood this morning accuses Rishi Sunak of running on 'John Major policies backed by grandees'

    https://twitter.com/johnredwood/status/1545996978819055616?s=20&t=rPjG5Cr8D8916dZJy8MG7Q

    John Major did win, unexpectedly, the 1992 general election.

    I'm not sure why Major gets such grief when you can argue 1992 was an amazing result.
    That's only a fair table if it's prorated against the size of the electorate at each of those elections.
    That's a point, but it basically turns the table into a comparison of election performance while there wasn't a significant third party.

    Major's 1992 performance drops to 17th on this measure but that's still better than anything since Thatcher 1979. Boris's "Fourteen Million Voters" only gets him 24th, Edward Heath beats that 3 times (1966, 1970 and Feb 1974)
    What if we cut out everything up to the 1970s?

    What I'd expect to see is that Major's 1992 victory still comes on top.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,751
    edited July 2022
    Jonathan said:

    I knew I’d seen Penny’s video before. Enjoy…

    https://youtu.be/T72TopWbXJg

    Lol.
    It's actually put together much more competently than PM4PM, the latter is all quick, quick, really quick, slow, quick, quick etc. Made me feel a bit queasy, and not just for the obvious reasons.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,207

    DavidL said:

    Scott_xP said:

    BREAKING: Penny Mordaunt launches her bid to be leader https://twitter.com/pennymordaunt/status/1546049184373121024

    That is a deeply ordinary video. Having Boris in it was a mistake. Having platitudes and cliches at every turn when her first priority is to actually improve name awareness and distinctiveness is just daft. Really quite disappointed.
    I think the video is OK. Yes, it's deeply cliched in visuals and soundtrack, but I don't think Penny should be aiming to look like she's got a cutting edge advertising team behind it. She should leave that to Sunak. The only real mistake I think was having the Martin Jarvis-esque narrator. She should have done it herself.

    There is a big Boris fanbase out there, and Penny was not directly involved in his fall, so why not feature him?

    She is also right to say not to choose the leader based on agreeing with everything they say, but on you trusting their motives, and that's 100% true, and something I said here myself.

    What makes it all for me is the slogan - it's very good.





    I thought the video was OK but took too long getting to the point. A rebuttal to Rishi's which was all about him.

    I'm more impressed by the 18 endorsements she has gained, pushing her up to 18.

    I see Patel has 5 now, going past Javid, which I guess means she's going to run
    Rather surprised at Kevin supporting her.
  • DM_AndyDM_Andy Posts: 1,127
    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    I knew I’d seen Penny’s video before. Enjoy…

    https://youtu.be/T72TopWbXJg

    Hahaha

    Genius, God I miss Chris Morris
    I always assumed that Grant Shapps was Chris Morris deep undercover, you mean Grant's actually for real?
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,141
    Interesting that both Hunt and Javid would keep the BBC license fee .

    That’s encouraging and hopefully when the odious BBC hater Dorries leaves the cabinet the cultural vandalism might diminish.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,872
    Jonathan said:

    I knew I’d seen Penny’s video before. Enjoy…

    https://youtu.be/T72TopWbXJg

    It's the fashion and fags that really date that video to the 1990s.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,477
    IshmaelZ said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sounds like there’s been crowd trouble at the F1 in Austria this weekend.
    https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-to-discuss-unacceptable-fan-harassment-with-austrian-gp-promoter/10336028/

    Why are all the sports fans starting to behave like football fans? Too much alcohol and cocaine? It used to be that other sports always had a friendly atmosphere, sometimes a little boisterous but with the crowd policing themselves well. There was even fighting at Edgebaston at the Test Match last week.

    Coke plus covid demob happy I think

    Cocaine really rules out any legalisation shit, it is such deeply unpleasant stuff. Unless you say OK LSD and MDMA are now absolutely fine, knock yourselves out, but coke = death penalty. would mellow things out a lot.
    Coke plus (probably) steroids plus alcohol because refreshing cold drinks are needed in this weather.
  • VerulamiusVerulamius Posts: 1,535
    When I watched Mordaunt's video I had a flash back to the 1987 general election. The Conservative partt election broadcasts used the same music, Jupiter by that socialist composer Holst.
  • When I watched Mordaunt's video I had a flash back to the 1987 general election. The Conservative partt election broadcasts used the same music, Jupiter by that socialist composer Holst.

    That bit of the tune is called Thaxted
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thaxted_(tune)
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,557
    Mordaunt’s odds are shortening and Sunak’s are drifting, they are ahead of the pack

    Truss is third

    Everyone else is also ran. As things stand

    So I reckon it will be one of those three, with Mordaunt as slight fave as she would likely beat either with the members?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,477
    DM_Andy said:


    DM_Andy said:

    HYUFD said:

    John Redwood this morning accuses Rishi Sunak of running on 'John Major policies backed by grandees'

    https://twitter.com/johnredwood/status/1545996978819055616?s=20&t=rPjG5Cr8D8916dZJy8MG7Q

    John Major did win, unexpectedly, the 1992 general election.

    I'm not sure why Major gets such grief when you can argue 1992 was an amazing result.
    That's only a fair table if it's prorated against the size of the electorate at each of those elections.
    That's a point, but it basically turns the table into a comparison of election performance while there wasn't a significant third party.

    Major's 1992 performance drops to 17th on this measure but that's still better than anything since Thatcher 1979. Boris's "Fourteen Million Voters" only gets him 24th, Edward Heath beats that 3 times (1966, 1970 and Feb 1974)
    The 1951 election features in second and third places; of course, for electoral purposes, third beat second.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,494
    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    I knew I’d seen Penny’s video before. Enjoy…

    https://youtu.be/T72TopWbXJg

    Hahaha

    Genius, God I miss Chris Morris
    It's wonderful, didn't see it when it came out. Just that nice blend of good humour and self-mockery that it really is a good advertisement for Britain.

    Penny's is odd. The tag line (more about the ship than the leader) is good, but it takes forever to get there, and the anonymous posh bloke doing the voiceover sounds like a BBC newsreader from yesteryear, which I suppose is the intention.
  • DM_AndyDM_Andy Posts: 1,127

    DM_Andy said:


    DM_Andy said:

    HYUFD said:

    John Redwood this morning accuses Rishi Sunak of running on 'John Major policies backed by grandees'

    https://twitter.com/johnredwood/status/1545996978819055616?s=20&t=rPjG5Cr8D8916dZJy8MG7Q

    John Major did win, unexpectedly, the 1992 general election.

    I'm not sure why Major gets such grief when you can argue 1992 was an amazing result.
    That's only a fair table if it's prorated against the size of the electorate at each of those elections.
    That's a point, but it basically turns the table into a comparison of election performance while there wasn't a significant third party.

    Major's 1992 performance drops to 17th on this measure but that's still better than anything since Thatcher 1979. Boris's "Fourteen Million Voters" only gets him 24th, Edward Heath beats that 3 times (1966, 1970 and Feb 1974)
    What if we cut out everything up to the 1970s?

    What I'd expect to see is that Major's 1992 victory still comes on top.
    Nearly, Heath does best.


  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,169
    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    I knew I’d seen Penny’s video before. Enjoy…

    https://youtu.be/T72TopWbXJg

    Hahaha

    Genius, God I miss Chris Morris
    The Brass Eye “Paedophile Special”, is one of the best pieces of television ever made.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,163

    When I watched Mordaunt's video I had a flash back to the 1987 general election. The Conservative partt election broadcasts used the same music, Jupiter by that socialist composer Holst.

    A lot of the Tory PPB's (I wasn't politically aware, I looked at them for a later politics essay) from 1987 used a newly composed 'patriotic song' by Andrew Lloyd Webber I think. Perhaps that's what you're remembering as Holst.

  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,675
    IshmaelZ said:

    Not really the point, is it? When radiohead make an album, their primary concern is not whether U2 are going to like it or not. The video is aimed fair and square at phlegbois, and a phlegboi's verdict trumps roger's.

    But they do care (a bit) if they say the production was shit.

    "It should have been in dobly"
  • Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    I knew I’d seen Penny’s video before. Enjoy…

    https://youtu.be/T72TopWbXJg

    Hahaha

    Genius, God I miss Chris Morris
    The Brass Eye “Paedophile Special”, is one of the best pieces of television ever made.
    "Cake" was pretty good too.

    I loved the fact that the most repeated line was "it's a totally made up drug"
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578

    Fuck it.

    I'm going in heavily against Zahawi and Javid.

    They're not going to make it.

    Agreed on both. Also, less relevant, Badenoch - she was picking up RW votes but Hunt's move re McVey probably closes off that route.

  • What is wrong with what Roger said, is there really any need for the condescending replies to him.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,163

    DavidL said:

    Scott_xP said:

    BREAKING: Penny Mordaunt launches her bid to be leader https://twitter.com/pennymordaunt/status/1546049184373121024

    That is a deeply ordinary video. Having Boris in it was a mistake. Having platitudes and cliches at every turn when her first priority is to actually improve name awareness and distinctiveness is just daft. Really quite disappointed.
    I think the video is OK. Yes, it's deeply cliched in visuals and soundtrack, but I don't think Penny should be aiming to look like she's got a cutting edge advertising team behind it. She should leave that to Sunak. The only real mistake I think was having the Martin Jarvis-esque narrator. She should have done it herself.

    There is a big Boris fanbase out there, and Penny was not directly involved in his fall, so why not feature him?

    She is also right to say not to choose the leader based on agreeing with everything they say, but on you trusting their motives, and that's 100% true, and something I said here myself.

    What makes it all for me is the slogan - it's very good.
    Boris was joking: let's get breakfast done.

    Mordaunt's video is also three minutes long, which is pushing it. I vow to thee is a stirring tune but one I associate with state funerals: Churchill; Lady Di; Mrs T; Prince Philip. For those who sang it at school, it might be different. Some of the visuals are a bit strong, and the White guy giving the Black chap a chance might look a bit patronising but perhaps most will not notice.

    But I suppose the main thing is that most people will only watch it once, rather than three times an hour in Coronation Street.
    Given that there's no evidence that it's not the black guy giving the white guy a chance, I'd say your comment says more about your own assumptions than it does about the video.
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,297
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Good luck @darkage with the War on Weight

    I put on a solid 10 pounds during Covid, and it is proving extremely hard to shift - taking me from normal to overweight - whereas for the decade before that I was highly disciplined, and stayed close to my ideal weight. No problem

    I don’t think it’s my metabolism or diet that has changed, it’s my psychology. Covid was so bloody terrible, in so many ways, it has debuted a new voice in my mental choir: the voice that says Fuck it, life is short, this could be your last meal, enjoy. I suspect I’m not alone. Covid has changed many, mentally

    Could be alcohol consumption...
    I drink a lot of booze, but that was the case before Covid, too

    I’m sure it’s a new mix of nihilism and hedonism in the face of the world’s woes. War, Plague and Famine stalk the planet. They’ve run out of tonic in my favourite bar on Kotor Bay. Next week it will hit 56C in Newent, forever blemishing one of Europe’s most beautiful towns

    What the hell, don’t scrimp on the garlic sauce
    My own personal demon is doubts about being able to survive the current societal descent in to post enlightenment unreason. Barely a day goes by without seeing more evidence of this - Brexit, Covid, Woke... It probably sounds stupid, but it makes me take a 'live for the day' type of viewpoint: life is ok, but it could go devastatingly bad at any minute. It is strange because I used to have fears about the catastrophic failure of western civilisation, but now it is the strange manifestations of western civilisation itself, that have suddenly become the problem.

  • What is wrong with what Roger said, is there really any need for the condescending replies to him.

    You haven't heard of Rogerdamus, presumably?
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,001

    When I watched Mordaunt's video I had a flash back to the 1987 general election. The Conservative partt election broadcasts used the same music, Jupiter by that socialist composer Holst.

    That bit of the tune is called Thaxted
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thaxted_(tune)
    Gives all good Tories warm fuzzies. Even makes lapsed ones miss the old time religion.

    As in this PM for PM campaign video;

    https://youtu.be/qhI0YqUsiKo
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,557
    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    I knew I’d seen Penny’s video before. Enjoy…

    https://youtu.be/T72TopWbXJg

    Hahaha

    Genius, God I miss Chris Morris
    The Brass Eye “Paedophile Special”, is one of the best pieces of television ever made.
    Yes. Probably the peak. Just before he got TOO dark and surreal, like Joyce moving on to Finnegann’s Wake after Ulysses

    Relatedly I’ve been looking at snippets from it, and I completely forgot that Lineker made a total fool of himself on Paedogeddon:


    https://twitter.com/shornkoomins/status/913426755976876038?s=21&t=kCQJBlfpzRiGAMnx8Z-O5g

    Hahahaha
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,670
    IshmaelZ said:

    Roger said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Barnesian said:

    Scott_xP said:

    BREAKING: Penny Mordaunt launches her bid to be leader https://twitter.com/pennymordaunt/status/1546049184373121024

    A great line


    Very very good

    Puts Ready for Rishi* in its place

    *Sounds like an arch way of asking your partner whether they have lubed up.

    My top 3 now Tom, kemi, penny
    I hated everything about that Mordaunt video. It was just awful. The VO (probably Gyles Brandreth) was portentious to the point of being sick making. If you were burying the Queen it might have been suitable but as it is it was old fashioned fuddy duddy pompous nonsense.

    The only saving grace was 'PM4PM' which was cute

    Thats goodbye Shapps Mordaunt and Hunt....
    There we have it. Roger has spoken.

    We can be 100% confident it's an excellent video for the contest.

    You do know Roger does this for a living?
    Not really the point, is it? When radiohead make an album, their primary concern is not whether U2 are going to like it or not. The video is aimed fair and square at phlegbois, and a phlegboi's verdict trumps roger's.
    I'm now picturing Thom Yorke in tears after hearing Bono say their last album was a bit meh.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,477
    DM_Andy said:

    DM_Andy said:


    DM_Andy said:

    HYUFD said:

    John Redwood this morning accuses Rishi Sunak of running on 'John Major policies backed by grandees'

    https://twitter.com/johnredwood/status/1545996978819055616?s=20&t=rPjG5Cr8D8916dZJy8MG7Q

    John Major did win, unexpectedly, the 1992 general election.

    I'm not sure why Major gets such grief when you can argue 1992 was an amazing result.
    That's only a fair table if it's prorated against the size of the electorate at each of those elections.
    That's a point, but it basically turns the table into a comparison of election performance while there wasn't a significant third party.

    Major's 1992 performance drops to 17th on this measure but that's still better than anything since Thatcher 1979. Boris's "Fourteen Million Voters" only gets him 24th, Edward Heath beats that 3 times (1966, 1970 and Feb 1974)
    What if we cut out everything up to the 1970s?

    What I'd expect to see is that Major's 1992 victory still comes on top.
    Nearly, Heath does best.


    And in Feb 74 seats and votes were again the opposite way round.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,169

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    I knew I’d seen Penny’s video before. Enjoy…

    https://youtu.be/T72TopWbXJg

    Hahaha

    Genius, God I miss Chris Morris
    The Brass Eye “Paedophile Special”, is one of the best pieces of television ever made.
    "Cake" was pretty good too.

    I loved the fact that the most repeated line was "it's a totally made up drug"
    Indeed so, just can’t imagine any TV company signing off that kind of satire these days.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,477
    Leon said:

    Mordaunt’s odds are shortening and Sunak’s are drifting, they are ahead of the pack

    Truss is third

    Everyone else is also ran. As things stand

    So I reckon it will be one of those three, with Mordaunt as slight fave as she would likely beat either with the members?

    Betfair next prime minister:-
    3.1 Rishi Sunak
    4.7 Penny Mordaunt
    8 Liz Truss (not yet declared but...)
    12 Jeremy Hunt
    17 Tom Tugendhat
    19.5 Sajid Javid
    25 Kemi Badenoch
    25 Nadhim Zahawi
    30 Suella Braverman
    70 Priti Patel (not declared)
    75 Grant Shapps
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    Sandpit said:

    Sounds like there’s been crowd trouble at the F1 in Austria this weekend.
    https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-to-discuss-unacceptable-fan-harassment-with-austrian-gp-promoter/10336028/

    Why are all the sports fans starting to behave like football fans? Too much alcohol and cocaine? It used to be that other sports always had a friendly atmosphere, sometimes a little boisterous but with the crowd policing themselves well. There was even fighting at Edgebaston at the Test Match last week.

    I was chatting about this with an industry contact who goes to the league 1 matches. His view is that, post Covid, everyone is going mental when it goes to days out - he says before at the matches it used to be a few guys having a couple of cans and getting vaguely pissed, now there is a whole group taking coke and drugs during the game.

  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,477
    nico679 said:

    Interesting that both Hunt and Javid would keep the BBC license fee

    That’s encouraging and hopefully when the odious BBC hater Dorries leaves the cabinet the cultural vandalism might diminish.

    Whoever thought of abolishing the BBC licence fee, it was not Nadine Dorries.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,557

    Leon said:

    Mordaunt’s odds are shortening and Sunak’s are drifting, they are ahead of the pack

    Truss is third

    Everyone else is also ran. As things stand

    So I reckon it will be one of those three, with Mordaunt as slight fave as she would likely beat either with the members?

    Betfair next prime minister:-
    3.1 Rishi Sunak
    4.7 Penny Mordaunt
    8 Liz Truss (not yet declared but...)
    12 Jeremy Hunt
    17 Tom Tugendhat
    19.5 Sajid Javid
    25 Kemi Badenoch
    25 Nadhim Zahawi
    30 Suella Braverman
    70 Priti Patel (not declared)
    75 Grant Shapps
    A clear danger (for all the others) that Sunak and Mordaunt will pull decisively ahead by tomorrow, like a pair of marathon runners making a break at the front
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,381

    Barnesian said:


    Who would be best for the country? Hunt - to clear out the stable
    Who will the membership choose? Sunak
    Who would be best for the LibDems? Zahawi
    Who would be best for my book? Truss (on at 60/1 with William Hill)
    Who would I enjoy watching as PM? Mordaunt

    The membership will choose Sunak?

    If it Sunak v Mordaunt I expect Mordaunt will win
    Even though she's a super wokey?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,169

    Leon said:

    Mordaunt’s odds are shortening and Sunak’s are drifting, they are ahead of the pack

    Truss is third

    Everyone else is also ran. As things stand

    So I reckon it will be one of those three, with Mordaunt as slight fave as she would likely beat either with the members?

    Betfair next prime minister:-
    3.1 Rishi Sunak
    4.7 Penny Mordaunt
    8 Liz Truss (not yet declared but...)
    12 Jeremy Hunt
    17 Tom Tugendhat
    19.5 Sajid Javid
    25 Kemi Badenoch
    25 Nadhim Zahawi
    30 Suella Braverman
    70 Priti Patel (not declared)
    75 Grant Shapps
    I think Kemi is the value there, she should be at least two or three places higher than she is.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,381
    My view, as a super wokey, is PM for PM
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,477

    DavidL said:

    Scott_xP said:

    BREAKING: Penny Mordaunt launches her bid to be leader https://twitter.com/pennymordaunt/status/1546049184373121024

    That is a deeply ordinary video. Having Boris in it was a mistake. Having platitudes and cliches at every turn when her first priority is to actually improve name awareness and distinctiveness is just daft. Really quite disappointed.
    I think the video is OK. Yes, it's deeply cliched in visuals and soundtrack, but I don't think Penny should be aiming to look like she's got a cutting edge advertising team behind it. She should leave that to Sunak. The only real mistake I think was having the Martin Jarvis-esque narrator. She should have done it herself.

    There is a big Boris fanbase out there, and Penny was not directly involved in his fall, so why not feature him?

    She is also right to say not to choose the leader based on agreeing with everything they say, but on you trusting their motives, and that's 100% true, and something I said here myself.

    What makes it all for me is the slogan - it's very good.
    Boris was joking: let's get breakfast done.

    Mordaunt's video is also three minutes long, which is pushing it. I vow to thee is a stirring tune but one I associate with state funerals: Churchill; Lady Di; Mrs T; Prince Philip. For those who sang it at school, it might be different. Some of the visuals are a bit strong, and the White guy giving the Black chap a chance might look a bit patronising but perhaps most will not notice.

    But I suppose the main thing is that most people will only watch it once, rather than three times an hour in Coronation Street.
    Given that there's no evidence that it's not the black guy giving the white guy a chance, I'd say your comment says more about your own assumptions than it does about the video.
    Yes I thought about that before posting but decided I'm right. Note I did not mention the primary school.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,557
    MrEd said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sounds like there’s been crowd trouble at the F1 in Austria this weekend.
    https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-to-discuss-unacceptable-fan-harassment-with-austrian-gp-promoter/10336028/

    Why are all the sports fans starting to behave like football fans? Too much alcohol and cocaine? It used to be that other sports always had a friendly atmosphere, sometimes a little boisterous but with the crowd policing themselves well. There was even fighting at Edgebaston at the Test Match last week.

    I was chatting about this with an industry contact who goes to the league 1 matches. His view is that, post Covid, everyone is going mental when it goes to days out - he says before at the matches it used to be a few guys having a couple of cans and getting vaguely pissed, now there is a whole group taking coke and drugs during the game.

    There was a lot of shagging and boozing after the Black Death. Survivors tilted into hedonistic excess, out of joy at their survival, and with a new sense of mortality to sharpen appetites. Eat drink and be merry

    It is unsurprising that we are doing the same now. We are the same species
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,660
    Weather interlude.

    Still plenty of time to change but just to note the 3 most respected weather models continue to show a record hot airmass over Britain next Sunday and maxima close to or above all time record levels (and record obliterating temperatures in Northern France).
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,670

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    I knew I’d seen Penny’s video before. Enjoy…

    https://youtu.be/T72TopWbXJg

    Hahaha

    Genius, God I miss Chris Morris
    It's wonderful, didn't see it when it came out. Just that nice blend of good humour and self-mockery that it really is a good advertisement for Britain.

    Penny's is odd. The tag line (more about the ship than the leader) is good, but it takes forever to get there, and the anonymous posh bloke doing the voiceover sounds like a BBC newsreader from yesteryear, which I suppose is the intention.
    When I watched it I kept on thinking "Good old Yellow Pages".
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,477
    MrEd said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sounds like there’s been crowd trouble at the F1 in Austria this weekend.
    https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-to-discuss-unacceptable-fan-harassment-with-austrian-gp-promoter/10336028/

    Why are all the sports fans starting to behave like football fans? Too much alcohol and cocaine? It used to be that other sports always had a friendly atmosphere, sometimes a little boisterous but with the crowd policing themselves well. There was even fighting at Edgebaston at the Test Match last week.

    I was chatting about this with an industry contact who goes to the league 1 matches. His view is that, post Covid, everyone is going mental when it goes to days out - he says before at the matches it used to be a few guys having a couple of cans and getting vaguely pissed, now there is a whole group taking coke and drugs during the game.

    The odd thing is that despite triumphant press releases about breaking encrochat and massive drug shipments intercepted, there seems to be more coke about than ever. They'll be adding it to the CPI next.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,557
    Pleasure-seeking after Plague in 14th century Paris


    “Hedonism and Resignation

    “But in a few places, a response is encountered that seems awfully like tempting fate. One of these episodes is recounted in the Grandes Chroniques de France, or Great Chronicle of France, kept by the monks of Saint-Denis, just outside Paris.

    “In this particular account, the chronicler talks about two monks from the abbey who were traveling through the countryside at the behest of their abbot when they encountered a village where all the people were dancing to the music of drums and bagpipes. This seemed an odd celebratory moment in the midst of so much grim death, so the monks inquired as to what was happening.

    “We have seen our neighbors die, and are seeing them die daily,” the villagers explained, “but since the plague has not entered our town, we hope that our merrymaking will keep it away, and this is why we are dancing.”




    The merrymaking response to plague would show up throughout the medieval world as the Black Death made its way across the continent, as would a sort of intersection of that impulse and the resignation that everyone was going to die“

    https://www.wondriumdaily.com/the-plague-in-paris-hedonism-resignation-and-the-first-scientific-response/
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,163
    TimS said:

    Weather interlude.

    Still plenty of time to change but just to note the 3 most respected weather models continue to show a record hot airmass over Britain next Sunday and maxima close to or above all time record levels (and record obliterating temperatures in Northern France).

    I don't want to hear this. :disappointed:
  • Jonathan said:

    I knew I’d seen Penny’s video before. Enjoy…

    https://youtu.be/T72TopWbXJg

    Damian McBride
    @DPMcBride
    I'm a sucker for a campaign ad with 'I vow to thee' as the soundtrack, images of a thriving Britain, and the appearance of the candidate at the end. But the male voiceover in the Penny Mordaunt ad does take it a bit too close to The Day Today's emergency broadcast instead.

    https://twitter.com/DPMcBride/status/1546058387695222789

    McBride wrote this PPB for the 07 election that wasn't



  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,169

    MrEd said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sounds like there’s been crowd trouble at the F1 in Austria this weekend.
    https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-to-discuss-unacceptable-fan-harassment-with-austrian-gp-promoter/10336028/

    Why are all the sports fans starting to behave like football fans? Too much alcohol and cocaine? It used to be that other sports always had a friendly atmosphere, sometimes a little boisterous but with the crowd policing themselves well. There was even fighting at Edgebaston at the Test Match last week.

    I was chatting about this with an industry contact who goes to the league 1 matches. His view is that, post Covid, everyone is going mental when it goes to days out - he says before at the matches it used to be a few guys having a couple of cans and getting vaguely pissed, now there is a whole group taking coke and drugs during the game.

    The odd thing is that despite triumphant press releases about breaking encrochat and massive drug shipments intercepted, there seems to be more coke about than ever. They'll be adding it to the CPI next.
    Prohibition of substances never works, we learned this in the USA a century ago.

    Sell it in pharmacies, with known doses and taxes on it. Spend some of the taxes on addiction treatment programmes.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,477
    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Mordaunt’s odds are shortening and Sunak’s are drifting, they are ahead of the pack

    Truss is third

    Everyone else is also ran. As things stand

    So I reckon it will be one of those three, with Mordaunt as slight fave as she would likely beat either with the members?

    Betfair next prime minister:-
    3.1 Rishi Sunak
    4.7 Penny Mordaunt
    8 Liz Truss (not yet declared but...)
    12 Jeremy Hunt
    17 Tom Tugendhat
    19.5 Sajid Javid
    25 Kemi Badenoch
    25 Nadhim Zahawi
    30 Suella Braverman
    70 Priti Patel (not declared)
    75 Grant Shapps
    I think Kemi is the value there, she should be at least two or three places higher than she is.
    Perhaps but remember they are playing for a place in the final two. Will MPs get Kemi there, even if some scandal or other KOs the favourites (as when Gove fell last time) or will her lack of experience at the top level prove an insurmountable hurdle?

    Come to think of it, if Penny Mordaunt really is second best, will MPs wonder why has she not been given more Cabinet roles?

    Both these women might stand a better chance in an election for Leader of the Opposition, when experience is less urgently required.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,381
    Our productivity would go through the roof if speed was legal
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163
    ohnotnow said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    I knew I’d seen Penny’s video before. Enjoy…

    https://youtu.be/T72TopWbXJg

    Hahaha

    Genius, God I miss Chris Morris
    It's wonderful, didn't see it when it came out. Just that nice blend of good humour and self-mockery that it really is a good advertisement for Britain.

    Penny's is odd. The tag line (more about the ship than the leader) is good, but it takes forever to get there, and the anonymous posh bloke doing the voiceover sounds like a BBC newsreader from yesteryear, which I suppose is the intention.
    When I watched it I kept on thinking "Good old Yellow Pages".
    I thought that they were standing for Leader of the Conservative Party, but it seems they have their sights on being PM....
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,531

    TimS said:

    Weather interlude.

    Still plenty of time to change but just to note the 3 most respected weather models continue to show a record hot airmass over Britain next Sunday and maxima close to or above all time record levels (and record obliterating temperatures in Northern France).

    I don't want to hear this. :disappointed:
    Beeb Weather site saying 31 and 33 in London for Saturday and Sunday
    Met Office saying 31 for Saturday, no figure for Sunday as yet
  • Our productivity would go through the roof if speed was legal

    Keanu really is a revelation
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,631
    nico679 said:

    Interesting that both Hunt and Javid would keep the BBC license fee .

    That’s encouraging and hopefully when the odious BBC hater Dorries leaves the cabinet the cultural vandalism might diminish.

    She is going to the Lords but not sure what they have done to deserve that fate
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,381
    Ratters said:

    A Mordaunt versus Starmer election would be such an infinite improvement in terms of choice of PM than we had with Johnson versus Corbyn.

    The televised leadership debate might actually be informative and thought-provoking, god forbid.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,273
    DM_Andy said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    I knew I’d seen Penny’s video before. Enjoy…

    https://youtu.be/T72TopWbXJg

    Hahaha

    Genius, God I miss Chris Morris
    I always assumed that Grant Shapps was Chris Morris deep undercover, you mean Grant's actually for real?
    No, he is really Michael Green.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,477

    nico679 said:

    Interesting that both Hunt and Javid would keep the BBC license fee .

    That’s encouraging and hopefully when the odious BBC hater Dorries leaves the cabinet the cultural vandalism might diminish.

    She is going to the Lords but not sure what they have done to deserve that fate
    I wonder. Blabbing about forthcoming honours used to mean the envelope got lost in the post. And if she only has Boris's word for it, I'd not be down the ermine shop just yet.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,631

    Barnesian said:


    Who would be best for the country? Hunt - to clear out the stable
    Who will the membership choose? Sunak
    Who would be best for the LibDems? Zahawi
    Who would be best for my book? Truss (on at 60/1 with William Hill)
    Who would I enjoy watching as PM? Mordaunt

    The membership will choose Sunak?

    If it Sunak v Mordaunt I expect Mordaunt will win
    Even though she's a super wokey?
    She addressed that immediately and I have no problem with her, and indeed believe she would be a breath of fresh air

    However if it is Sunak or Truss then so be it

    Nobody else is getting near IMHO
  • No_Offence_AlanNo_Offence_Alan Posts: 4,464

    Barnesian said:


    Who would be best for the country? Hunt - to clear out the stable
    Who will the membership choose? Sunak
    Who would be best for the LibDems? Zahawi
    Who would be best for my book? Truss (on at 60/1 with William Hill)
    Who would I enjoy watching as PM? Mordaunt

    The membership will choose Sunak?

    If it Sunak v Mordaunt I expect Mordaunt will win
    Even though she's a super wokey?
    She won't hit the membership in the pocket as hard as Sunak would.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,679
    Jupiter was also used by Fry and Laurie for their young conservative of the year sketch.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttjOqTW-8CA
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,217
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Roger said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Barnesian said:

    Scott_xP said:

    BREAKING: Penny Mordaunt launches her bid to be leader https://twitter.com/pennymordaunt/status/1546049184373121024

    A great line


    Very very good

    Puts Ready for Rishi* in its place

    *Sounds like an arch way of asking your partner whether they have lubed up.

    My top 3 now Tom, kemi, penny
    I hated everything about that Mordaunt video. It was just awful. The VO (probably Gyles Brandreth) was portentious to the point of being sick making. If you were burying the Queen it might have been suitable but as it is it was old fashioned fuddy duddy pompous nonsense.

    The only saving grace was 'PM4PM' which was cute

    Thats goodbye Shapps Mordaunt and Hunt....
    There we have it. Roger has spoken.

    We can be 100% confident it's an excellent video for the contest.

    Well there's little doubt that Casino, who reacted positively, is rather closer to the target market than is Roger.

    That’s a bloody brilliant video

    It gave me the Patiriotic Tinglez several times. And if it is doing that to me, a drunken and debauched cynic washed up on the karstic shores of Montenegro, what is it doing to Conservative Members? They are probably spaffing all over this morning’s Wordle

    This video is a smart missile targeted superbly at its intended audience, not me or you, not Britain or the world, but 200,000 mostly older, highly patriotic people in middle England, mainly in the south, who often found Boris amusing but despaired of his amorality, and who still yearn for Maggie

    Tick tick tick tick tick. Alongside her clever rebuttal of the Woke stuff last night, she’s had an excellent weekend. Barring revelations, she might be the one to beat - and if she makes the final two I reckon she wins against anyone else
    "I vow to thee" was the perfect tune for it.
    Yes, great choice

    I’m not sure the voiceover is Michael Howard or Gyles Brandreth, tho it sounds a bit LIKE them. A professional actor? ...
    The latter I think.
    Your question made me watch the damn thing. It's definitely not Brandreth, and sounds slightly more like Howard, but it's a little too high register for him in the wrong places... and there's nothing of the night about it.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,163

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Mordaunt’s odds are shortening and Sunak’s are drifting, they are ahead of the pack

    Truss is third

    Everyone else is also ran. As things stand

    So I reckon it will be one of those three, with Mordaunt as slight fave as she would likely beat either with the members?

    Betfair next prime minister:-
    3.1 Rishi Sunak
    4.7 Penny Mordaunt
    8 Liz Truss (not yet declared but...)
    12 Jeremy Hunt
    17 Tom Tugendhat
    19.5 Sajid Javid
    25 Kemi Badenoch
    25 Nadhim Zahawi
    30 Suella Braverman
    70 Priti Patel (not declared)
    75 Grant Shapps
    I think Kemi is the value there, she should be at least two or three places higher than she is.
    Perhaps but remember they are playing for a place in the final two. Will MPs get Kemi there, even if some scandal or other KOs the favourites (as when Gove fell last time) or will her lack of experience at the top level prove an insurmountable hurdle?

    Come to think of it, if Penny Mordaunt really is second best, will MPs wonder why has she not been given more Cabinet roles?

    Both these women might stand a better chance in an election for Leader of the Opposition, when experience is less urgently required.
    She is first best. And the Cabinet was Borises. Boris liked to surround himself with those in position largely due to his patronage, rather than due to their abilities.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,163
    (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    18m
    With so many candidates now in the race, the pressure to say something batshit crazy to differentiate yourself from the pack is increasing. 1922 need to get rid of the flotsam and jetsam quickly, and then let the serious candidates set out their cases in a measured way.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,347
    edited July 2022
    Sandpit said:

    MrEd said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sounds like there’s been crowd trouble at the F1 in Austria this weekend.
    https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-to-discuss-unacceptable-fan-harassment-with-austrian-gp-promoter/10336028/

    Why are all the sports fans starting to behave like football fans? Too much alcohol and cocaine? It used to be that other sports always had a friendly atmosphere, sometimes a little boisterous but with the crowd policing themselves well. There was even fighting at Edgebaston at the Test Match last week.

    I was chatting about this with an industry contact who goes to the league 1 matches. His view is that, post Covid, everyone is going mental when it goes to days out - he says before at the matches it used to be a few guys having a couple of cans and getting vaguely pissed, now there is a whole group taking coke and drugs during the game.

    The odd thing is that despite triumphant press releases about breaking encrochat and massive drug shipments intercepted, there seems to be more coke about than ever. They'll be adding it to the CPI next.
    Prohibition of substances never works, we learned this in the USA a century ago.

    Sell it in pharmacies, with known doses and taxes on it. Spend some of the taxes on addiction treatment programmes.
    This is the key driver in Europe....

    The Slippery Dutch Slope from Drug Tolerance to Drug Terror

    https://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/narco-state-netherlands-the-slippery-dutch-slope-from-drug-tolerance-to-drug-terror-a-4c064859-9faf-495f-b1f7-c74900910568

    How the Netherlands became a narco state

    https://unherd.com/2022/03/how-the-netherlands-became-a-narco-state/#:~:text=How the Netherlands became a narco state
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,678
    MrEd said:

    Hunt on BBC

    pro Rwanda policy

    against abolishing BBC license

    pro net zero by 2050

    no indyref2 for 10 years

    will not lockdown again

    Esther McVey deputy PM

    Esther McVey as deputy is interesting because until this morning, she was not listed as endorsing him. Does Hunt have a list of non-public endorsements lined up to imply momentum, or just her?
    FWIW, I think McVey as Deputy is a very smart move by Hunt. Not only does it give the ERG some reassurance but she's also got kudos with the Red Wall MPs and provided a lot of the thinking around levelling up. She also negates the effect of Rayner when it comes to having a chippy Northerner.

    I think this helps Hunt a lot.

    I agree with everything thing you have said, but the idea scared the willies out of me.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,217

    DM_Andy said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    I knew I’d seen Penny’s video before. Enjoy…

    https://youtu.be/T72TopWbXJg

    Hahaha

    Genius, God I miss Chris Morris
    I always assumed that Grant Shapps was Chris Morris deep undercover, you mean Grant's actually for real?
    No, he is really Michael Green.
    No, don't be impolite.
    He is the politician currently known as Grant Shapps.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,631
    edited July 2022

    nico679 said:

    Interesting that both Hunt and Javid would keep the BBC license fee .

    That’s encouraging and hopefully when the odious BBC hater Dorries leaves the cabinet the cultural vandalism might diminish.

    She is going to the Lords but not sure what they have done to deserve that fate
    I wonder. Blabbing about forthcoming honours used to mean the envelope got lost in the post. And if she only has Boris's word for it, I'd not be down the ermine shop just yet.
    Apparently it is in his gift
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,842

    Ratters said:

    A Mordaunt versus Starmer election would be such an infinite improvement in terms of choice of PM than we had with Johnson versus Corbyn.

    The televised leadership debate might actually be informative and thought-provoking, god forbid.
    Starmer is never going to thrive in a televised debate like that. He will fall back on speaking lawyerish and send the electorate to sleep.

    I know personality isn't essential to being an effective leader. But Starmer tends to sound like an officious middle manager not a leader.

  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,598
    DM_Andy said:

    Carnyx said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    kle4 said:

    no contest unless there is a vacancy

    Says who?

    The rulebook doesn't say that.

    BoZo explicitly didn't say it.

    He said "there will be a contest". He didn't say "I am resigning so there will be a contest"
    This is a common mistake people make about rulebooks - they assume every single scenario under the sun must be covered within them and if it is not set out carved into stone something is permissable, but that really is not the case because it is impossible to cover everything. Common sense is actually a big part of administration.

    There shall be a Leader of the Party (referred to in this Constitution as “the Leader”) drawn from those elected to the House of Commons, who shall be elected by the Party Members and Scottish Party Members in accordance with the provisions of Schedule 2

    The Board (which 'have the power to do anything which in its opinion releates to the management and administration of the power') is responsible for 'the overseeing of the procedure for the election of the Leader in accordance with the provisions of Schedule 2'

    Schedule 2 is categorical a leader 'resigning' from the leadership is not eligible. But let's play this out and say resigning is not necessarily a trigger.

    Point 3 states

    Upon the initiation of an election for the Leader, it shall be the duty of the 1922 Committee to present to the Party, as soon as reasonably practicable, a choice of candidates for election as Leader. The rules for deciding the procedure by which the 1922 Committee selects candidates for submission for election shall be determined by the Executive Committee of the 1922 Committee after consultation of the Board

    So let's say Boris argfues the process has been 'initiated' without him resigning - the 1922 still gets to decide how the candidates are selected, and can say the current PM, in this case, is not eligible, based on his statements.

    You can argue the toss about him trying to play fast and loose with the rules, but if he does that they have the tools to stymie him - this is only happening because as he acknowledged the will of the parliamentary party was that he not be leader. So he will not be allowed to be eligible, I am very confident of that.

    Because it is not a question of what he can do - the will to remove him is there, so a way will be found. As noted, if he is saying he has not resigned then Brady and the committee can surely say well then no contest can happen until we settle if there is a vacancy or not.

    Edit: chrisb makes the same point in about 1/10 of the space.
    “… shall be elected by the Party Members and Scottish Party Members…”

    Why the distinction?

    Can people who live outwith Scotland *choose* to be classified as a “Scottish Party Member”? If so, one wonders how many members they actually have north of the border. 5,000?
    I'd wondered that too. Seems odd when my understandings was it was just a branding issue, not actually a distinct sister party.
    Under UK electdoral law such branding is illegal - except when the word 'Scottish' and 'Scotland' are involved. A Labour fiddle from Mr Blair's time. (And presumably Wales too.)
    There's nothing stopping the Tories using English Conservative Party if they wanted. No-one else could use English Conservative Party because that would confuse voters.
    Illegal surely AFAIK, unless they formally change their name with the Electoral Commission. But, with that proviso, yes.

    Though "Conservative" is pushing it under the current incumbent.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163

    (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    18m
    With so many candidates now in the race, the pressure to say something batshit crazy to differentiate yourself from the pack is increasing. 1922 need to get rid of the flotsam and jetsam quickly, and then let the serious candidates set out their cases in a measured way.

    From listening to the outpourings from the candidates, I think the "Conservatives" are indeed ready for Opposition.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,660
    Leon said:

    Pleasure-seeking after Plague in 14th century Paris


    “Hedonism and Resignation

    “But in a few places, a response is encountered that seems awfully like tempting fate. One of these episodes is recounted in the Grandes Chroniques de France, or Great Chronicle of France, kept by the monks of Saint-Denis, just outside Paris.

    “In this particular account, the chronicler talks about two monks from the abbey who were traveling through the countryside at the behest of their abbot when they encountered a village where all the people were dancing to the music of drums and bagpipes. This seemed an odd celebratory moment in the midst of so much grim death, so the monks inquired as to what was happening.

    “We have seen our neighbors die, and are seeing them die daily,” the villagers explained, “but since the plague has not entered our town, we hope that our merrymaking will keep it away, and this is why we are dancing.”




    The merrymaking response to plague would show up throughout the medieval world as the Black Death made its way across the continent, as would a sort of intersection of that impulse and the resignation that everyone was going to die“

    https://www.wondriumdaily.com/the-plague-in-paris-hedonism-resignation-and-the-first-
    scientific-response/

    I was always hopeful this would happen post Covid (not as a particularly hedonistic type myself but because I hate Puritanism), so fingers crossed.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,347
    edited July 2022

    Ratters said:

    A Mordaunt versus Starmer election would be such an infinite improvement in terms of choice of PM than we had with Johnson versus Corbyn.

    The televised leadership debate might actually be informative and thought-provoking, god forbid.
    Starmer is never going to thrive in a televised debate like that. He will fall back on speaking lawyerish and send the electorate to sleep.

    I know personality isn't essential to being an effective leader. But Starmer tends to sound like an officious middle manager not a leader.

    Combined with his tendency to holier than thou, I was right (after the fact), rather off putting. It reminds me a bit of that Harry Enfield character who always chips in and says ohhhh no no no no, you didn't want to do that, after you tell somebody you sat in traffic on the M6, by saying no what you wanted to do was take the ...., but I asked you at the time and you said M6 definitely the best route.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,544

    nico679 said:

    Interesting that both Hunt and Javid would keep the BBC license fee .

    That’s encouraging and hopefully when the odious BBC hater Dorries leaves the cabinet the cultural vandalism might diminish.

    She is going to the Lords but not sure what they have done to deserve that fate
    I wonder. Blabbing about forthcoming honours used to mean the envelope got lost in the post. And if she only has Boris's word for it, I'd not be down the ermine shop just yet.
    Apparently it is in his gift
    And if Johnson says he is going to do something, then you can be sure that is what he will... er... um.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,598
    edited July 2022

    Jonathan said:

    I knew I’d seen Penny’s video before. Enjoy…

    https://youtu.be/T72TopWbXJg

    Damian McBride
    @DPMcBride
    I'm a sucker for a campaign ad with 'I vow to thee' as the soundtrack, images of a thriving Britain, and the appearance of the candidate at the end. But the male voiceover in the Penny Mordaunt ad does take it a bit too close to The Day Today's emergency broadcast instead.

    https://twitter.com/DPMcBride/status/1546058387695222789

    McBride wrote this PPB for the 07 election that wasn't



    Interesting. But what's in it for the working classes and urban proles? Perhaps just as well it was never used.

    Edit: Not to mention the small town working classes.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Just back from a week's cruise to the Norwegian fjords. Have I missed anything?

    Are you now pining for them?
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    So Johnson was removed from power basically because of character issues, a leading a Government perceived to be run by charlatans, liners and crooks, and the major topic in the leadership contest is… tax cuts!

    Get with the real world.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,631

    (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    18m
    With so many candidates now in the race, the pressure to say something batshit crazy to differentiate yourself from the pack is increasing. 1922 need to get rid of the flotsam and jetsam quickly, and then let the serious candidates set out their cases in a measured way.

    From listening to the outpourings from the candidates, I think the "Conservatives" are indeed ready for Opposition.
    If the next PM received your approval the world would have turned in its head
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163
    edited July 2022
    Sandpit said:

    MrEd said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sounds like there’s been crowd trouble at the F1 in Austria this weekend.
    https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-to-discuss-unacceptable-fan-harassment-with-austrian-gp-promoter/10336028/

    Why are all the sports fans starting to behave like football fans? Too much alcohol and cocaine? It used to be that other sports always had a friendly atmosphere, sometimes a little boisterous but with the crowd policing themselves well. There was even fighting at Edgebaston at the Test Match last week.

    I was chatting about this with an industry contact who goes to the league 1 matches. His view is that, post Covid, everyone is going mental when it goes to days out - he says before at the matches it used to be a few guys having a couple of cans and getting vaguely pissed, now there is a whole group taking coke and drugs during the game.

    The odd thing is that despite triumphant press releases about breaking encrochat and massive drug shipments intercepted, there seems to be more coke about than ever. They'll be adding it to the CPI next.
    Prohibition of substances never works, we learned this in the USA a century ago.

    Sell it in pharmacies, with known doses and taxes on it. Spend some of the taxes on addiction treatment programmes.
    Better still, get it from seized shipments and give it free to addicts, dispensing it in drug clinics. If they can get it for free (and be put on treatment programmes) then why would they try and buy it? Might as well put the drug lords out of business by getting them involved in govt supply work. ;)
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,477
    edited July 2022

    Just back from a week's cruise to the Norwegian fjords. Have I missed anything?

    @Leon ran out of tonic, and we were top of the world at cricket for a day or two.
  • philiphphiliph Posts: 4,704

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Mordaunt’s odds are shortening and Sunak’s are drifting, they are ahead of the pack

    Truss is third

    Everyone else is also ran. As things stand

    So I reckon it will be one of those three, with Mordaunt as slight fave as she would likely beat either with the members?

    Betfair next prime minister:-
    3.1 Rishi Sunak
    4.7 Penny Mordaunt
    8 Liz Truss (not yet declared but...)
    12 Jeremy Hunt
    17 Tom Tugendhat
    19.5 Sajid Javid
    25 Kemi Badenoch
    25 Nadhim Zahawi
    30 Suella Braverman
    70 Priti Patel (not declared)
    75 Grant Shapps
    I think Kemi is the value there, she should be at least two or three places higher than she is.
    Perhaps but remember they are playing for a place in the final two. Will MPs get Kemi there, even if some scandal or other KOs the favourites (as when Gove fell last time) or will her lack of experience at the top level prove an insurmountable hurdle?

    Come to think of it, if Penny Mordaunt really is second best, will MPs wonder why has she not been given more Cabinet roles?

    Both these women might stand a better chance in an election for Leader of the Opposition, when experience is less urgently required.
    Do you need the same skill set to be PM as you need to be a Minister?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,347

    Rishi Sunak got grief for registering his website a couple of days early. Whois shows Penny Mordaunt's dates from 2019, so she must have planned to run against Boris.

    $ whois pm4pm.com |grep Creation
       Creation Date: 2019-05-24T08:02:03Z
    
    Clearly used to be a member of the scouts...Be Prepared and all that.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,217
    edited July 2022
    Jonathan said:

    I knew I’d seen Penny’s video before. Enjoy…

    https://youtu.be/T72TopWbXJg

    A template for her opponents...
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xeAY-9XvA8

    Guaranteed to sweep up the Barty vote.
  • eekeek Posts: 27,939

    Just back from a week's cruise to the Norwegian fjords. Have I missed anything?

    You'll be pining for them by the end of the week.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,631

    Ratters said:

    A Mordaunt versus Starmer election would be such an infinite improvement in terms of choice of PM than we had with Johnson versus Corbyn.

    The televised leadership debate might actually be informative and thought-provoking, god forbid.
    Starmer is never going to thrive in a televised debate like that. He will fall back on speaking lawyerish and send the electorate to sleep.

    I know personality isn't essential to being an effective leader. But Starmer tends to sound like an officious middle manager not a leader.

    It will make it a real contest and as I said earlier the questions the media are asking these candidates will in an election campaign see labour come under the same microscope, which to date they have had a free pass
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,598

    Just back from a week's cruise to the Norwegian fjords. Have I missed anything?

    Was it a good cruise? Been wondering about trying that.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,163

    (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    18m
    With so many candidates now in the race, the pressure to say something batshit crazy to differentiate yourself from the pack is increasing. 1922 need to get rid of the flotsam and jetsam quickly, and then let the serious candidates set out their cases in a measured way.

    From listening to the outpourings from the candidates, I think the "Conservatives" are indeed ready for Opposition.
    No solidarity for Irish girl Mordaunt?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,477
    philiph said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Mordaunt’s odds are shortening and Sunak’s are drifting, they are ahead of the pack

    Truss is third

    Everyone else is also ran. As things stand

    So I reckon it will be one of those three, with Mordaunt as slight fave as she would likely beat either with the members?

    Betfair next prime minister:-
    3.1 Rishi Sunak
    4.7 Penny Mordaunt
    8 Liz Truss (not yet declared but...)
    12 Jeremy Hunt
    17 Tom Tugendhat
    19.5 Sajid Javid
    25 Kemi Badenoch
    25 Nadhim Zahawi
    30 Suella Braverman
    70 Priti Patel (not declared)
    75 Grant Shapps
    I think Kemi is the value there, she should be at least two or three places higher than she is.
    Perhaps but remember they are playing for a place in the final two. Will MPs get Kemi there, even if some scandal or other KOs the favourites (as when Gove fell last time) or will her lack of experience at the top level prove an insurmountable hurdle?

    Come to think of it, if Penny Mordaunt really is second best, will MPs wonder why has she not been given more Cabinet roles?

    Both these women might stand a better chance in an election for Leader of the Opposition, when experience is less urgently required.
    Do you need the same skill set to be PM as you need to be a Minister?
    That is the question Conservative MPs will be asking as they mark their crosses. They might also ask if, after the last bloke, they dare take a chance.
This discussion has been closed.