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For CON comparisons we should use the LAB/LD/GRN aggregate – politicalbetting.com

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  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 21,799

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    I believe the new “in hindsight were we right/wrong to leave the EU” polling has hit a new high in terms of “Wrong”.

    34 Right
    50 Wrong

    That’s 42/58, removing Don’t Knows, had been sitting on 44/56 for quite a while.

    Or including don't knows Brexit Wrong just 2% up on the 48% who voted Remain in 2016
    Have you thought about becoming a maths teacher?
    Always include the 'don't knows' to support your own side, that's @HYUFD's dishonest approach.
    But he is consistent in applying it
    ...consistent in applying it... to his side.

    That's a bit like saying, he may be a cheat but at least he always cheats.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 23,828
    Test
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 41,002

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    I wonder if there is a podcast to be made out of PB

    You’re surely too busy watching Rick Steves videos working out where to go next?
    There was no “recent Rick Steves” blogpost or whatever about Kotor. Was there? It was bullshit

    Tsk
    One he cited was from 2010.

    Re: American tourists to Kotor, no doubt RS has influenced that trend somewhat.

    On other hand, fact that it's an obvious deep-water cruise ship destination (similar to Skagway) is likely MORE of a factor.

    And for most part, stop at Kotor is just one among several along the scenic eastern shore of the Adriatic.
    Much more recently than that!
  • LeonLeon Posts: 23,828
    Vanilla is fecked

  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 9,077

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    I believe the new “in hindsight were we right/wrong to leave the EU” polling has hit a new high in terms of “Wrong”.

    34 Right
    50 Wrong

    That’s 42/58, removing Don’t Knows, had been sitting on 44/56 for quite a while.

    Or including don't knows Brexit Wrong just 2% up on the 48% who voted Remain in 2016
    Have you thought about becoming a maths teacher?
    Always include the 'don't knows' to support your own side, that's @HYUFD's dishonest approach.
    But he is consistent in applying it
    Depending on whatever side he's pumping bilgewater for . . . also over . . .
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 14,513

    HYUFD said:

    I believe the new “in hindsight were we right/wrong to leave the EU” polling has hit a new high in terms of “Wrong”.

    34 Right
    50 Wrong

    That’s 42/58, removing Don’t Knows, had been sitting on 44/56 for quite a while.

    Or including don't knows Brexit Wrong just 2% up on the 48% who voted Remain in 2016
    Every time you make that claim, someone points out that you can't compare a poll where Leave + Remain have to add up to 100% with a poll where Good + Bad add up to 84%.

    But even taking your interpretation at face value, 52% Leave has become 34% right. That's grim.

    What the *+%#?! does the UK do if (when) the view of the people settles on "we've made a mistake that can't easily be reversed"? I can't see it being pretty.
    Rejoining the single market should be the objective and sooner rather than later
    Canada isn't in a single market with the USA.

    If we rejoin the single market then there's very little point in being outside the EU. If you accept Brexit then it would be better to accept any short term price that might come from restructuring and get on with things.
    But then you have a government telling people to accept the price for doing something they overall don't think is a good idea. Good luck selling that.

    The point is- there's no good way forward
    from here. What I'm wondering is not so much what will happen, but what happens to
    the psyche of a nation that concludes it has
    made a mistake but can't/won't do anything
    about it.
    You have to look at other parallels like Suez.

    Eventually everyone hops on the new bus and the idiots responsible for the last mess go down in history books as irredeemable clown-tards.

  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 24,114
    edited June 30

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    I believe the new “in hindsight were we right/wrong to leave the EU” polling has hit a new high in terms of “Wrong”.

    34 Right
    50 Wrong

    That’s 42/58, removing Don’t Knows, had been sitting on 44/56 for quite a while.

    Or including don't knows Brexit Wrong just 2% up on the 48% who voted Remain in 2016
    Have you thought about becoming a maths teacher?
    Always include the 'don't knows' to support your own side, that's @HYUFD's dishonest approach.
    But he is consistent in applying it
    ...
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 52,814

    HYUFD said:

    I believe the new “in hindsight were we right/wrong to leave the EU” polling has hit a new high in terms of “Wrong”.

    34 Right
    50 Wrong

    That’s 42/58, removing Don’t Knows, had been sitting on 44/56 for quite a while.

    Or including don't knows Brexit Wrong just 2% up on the 48% who voted Remain in 2016
    Every time you make that claim, someone points out that you can't compare a poll where Leave + Remain have to add up to 100% with a poll where Good + Bad add up to 84%.

    But even taking your interpretation at face value, 52% Leave has become 34% right. That's grim.

    What the *+%#?! does the UK do if (when) the view of the people settles on "we've made a mistake that can't easily be reversed"? I can't see it being pretty.
    Rejoining the single market should be the objective and sooner rather than later
    Canada isn't in a single market with the USA.

    If we rejoin the single market then there's very little point in being outside the EU. If you accept Brexit then it would be better to accept any short term price that might come from restructuring and get on with things.
    But then you have a government telling people to accept the price for doing something they overall don't think is a good idea. Good luck selling that.

    The point is- there's no good way forward from here. What I'm wondering is not so much what will happen, but what happens to the psyche of a nation that concludes it has made a mistake but can't/won't do anything about it.
    The only way to improve trade is either re-join the single market or preferable the TPPA
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 9,077
    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    I wonder if there is a podcast to be made out of PB

    You’re surely too busy watching Rick Steves videos working out where to go next?
    There was no “recent Rick Steves” blogpost or whatever about Kotor. Was there? It was bullshit

    Tsk
    One he cited was from 2010.

    Re: American tourists to Kotor, no doubt RS has influenced that trend somewhat.

    On other hand, fact that it's an obvious deep-water cruise ship destination (similar to Skagway) is likely MORE of a factor.

    And for most part, stop at Kotor is just one among several along the scenic eastern shore of the Adriatic.
    Much more recently than that!
    Citation?
  • kjhkjh Posts: 7,080
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    I believe the new “in hindsight were we right/wrong to leave the EU” polling has hit a new high in terms of “Wrong”.

    34 Right
    50 Wrong

    That’s 42/58, removing Don’t Knows, had been sitting on 44/56 for quite a while.

    Or including don't knows Brexit Wrong just 2% up on the 48% who voted Remain in 2016
    Every time you make that claim, someone points out that you can't compare a poll where Leave + Remain have to add up to 100% with a poll where Good + Bad add up to 84%.

    But even taking your interpretation at face value, 52% Leave has become 34% right. That's grim.

    What the *+%#?! does the UK do if (when) the view of the people settles on "we've made a mistake that can't easily be reversed"? I can't see it being pretty.
    In 2016 of course most DK's went Leave.

    Though if Labour want to fight the next general election on a campaign to rejoin the EU and hand the redwall back to Johnson and the Tories on a plate, be my guest
    a) You have no idea if that is true. You do understand that opinion polls aren't facts. If they were we wouldn't have to bother with the actual election. They have a margin of error. They are only representative of what people say at that point in time, not what they do at another point in time. A certain percentage will be outside the margin of error

    b) What has your 2nd para got to do with what the previous poster said?
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 4,220
    HYUFD said:

    I believe the new “in hindsight were we right/wrong to leave the EU” polling has hit a new high in terms of “Wrong”.

    34 Right
    50 Wrong

    That’s 42/58, removing Don’t Knows, had been sitting on 44/56 for quite a while.

    Or including don't knows Brexit Wrong just 2% up on the 48% who voted Remain in 2016
    This is a deliberately dishonest comparison of apples and oranges.

    If you include the DNVs and the spoilt ballot papers from the referendum like you are trying to do with the poll, then under 35% of the electorate voted remain. By your logic 35% Remain has gone up to 50%.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 23,828
    Still no mosquitoes
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 46,113
    algarkirk said:

    I believe the new “in hindsight were we right/wrong to leave the EU” polling has hit a new high in terms of “Wrong”.

    34 Right
    50 Wrong

    That’s 42/58, removing Don’t Knows, had been sitting on 44/56 for quite a while.

    UK and EU politics being what it is there are probably quite a few people who believe it is wrong to leave and wrong to remain and at the same time right to leave and right to remain. I have a lot of sympathy with this Schrodinger like cat/group.
    Exactly so.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 100,923

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    I believe the new “in hindsight were we right/wrong to leave the EU” polling has hit a new high in terms of “Wrong”.

    34 Right
    50 Wrong

    That’s 42/58, removing Don’t Knows, had been sitting on 44/56 for quite a while.

    Or including don't knows Brexit Wrong just 2% up on the 48% who voted Remain in 2016
    Every time you make that claim, someone points out that you can't compare a poll where Leave + Remain have to add up to 100% with a poll where Good + Bad add up to 84%.

    But even taking your interpretation at face value, 52% Leave has become 34% right. That's grim.

    What the *+%#?! does the UK do if (when) the view of the people settles on "we've made a mistake that can't easily be reversed"? I can't see it being pretty.
    In 2016 of course most DK's went Leave.

    Though if Labour want to fight the next general election on a campaign to rejoin the EU and hand the redwall back to Johnson and the Tories on a plate, be my guest
    Only SNP and Plaid will be for re-joining, though others may want to benefit from the single market
    Plaid only backs rejoining the single market now.

    https://www.business-live.co.uk/economic-development/plaid-cymru-calls-uk-rejoin-24344694

    Only the LDs and SNP have a long term aspiration still to rejoin the EU

    https://www.libdemvoice.org/lib-dems-back-long-term-aspiration-to-rejoin-eu-65957.html

    Labour only wants closer regulatory alignment, Starmer has ruled out rejoining and ruled out the single market and free movement
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 4,220
    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Test

    Against India, starts tomorrow.
    From tomorrow you are against India?
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 14,513
    I am not sure why peolple bother responding to HYUFD.

    I knew when I posted the original poll he would come out with his dishonest nonsense.

    Same with Sandpit and his fact-free nonsense about low skill wage hikes.
  • RyeGuyRyeGuy Posts: 1

    At a Rugby League World Cup press conference in today's date.
    Nadine Dorries, sec of state for sport, is special guest.
    “I’ve always liked the idea of rugby league. That drop goal in 2003 was such a special moment.”
    That drop goal was actually in the Rugby Union World Cup.

    https://twitter.com/chrishallitv/status/1542488532274618368

    I hope it all works out, it would be really cool! :)
  • RH1992RH1992 Posts: 703
    edited June 30

    HYUFD said:

    I believe the new “in hindsight were we right/wrong to leave the EU” polling has hit a new high in terms of “Wrong”.

    34 Right
    50 Wrong

    That’s 42/58, removing Don’t Knows, had been sitting on 44/56 for quite a while.

    Or including don't knows Brexit Wrong just 2% up on the 48% who voted Remain in 2016
    Every time you make that claim, someone points out that you can't compare a poll where Leave + Remain have to add up to 100% with a poll where Good + Bad add up to 84%.

    But even taking your interpretation at face value, 52% Leave has become 34% right. That's grim.

    What the *+%#?! does the UK do if (when) the view of the people settles on "we've made a mistake that can't easily be reversed"? I can't see it being pretty.
    Rejoining the single market should be the objective and sooner rather than later
    Canada isn't in a single market with the USA.

    If we rejoin the single market then there's very little point in being outside the EU. If you accept Brexit then it would be better to accept any short term price that might come from restructuring and get on with things.
    But then you have a government telling people to accept the price for doing something they overall don't think is a good idea. Good luck selling that.

    The point is- there's no good way forward from here. What I'm wondering is not so much what will happen, but what happens to the psyche of a nation that concludes it has made a mistake but can't/won't do anything about it.
    That relies on the assumption that in 5 years time the public still thinks this was a mistake that needs rectifying. Should the economy stabilise/improve in the medium term, even if you can demonstrate that it was a mistake to leave the single market, I can't see the public wanting to rock the boat. If standards of living are improving again, the public will want to stick with the status quo as changing things will just open wounds or cause more political/economic instability.

    Let's not forget that this is not a uniquely British problem either, there's worldwide turbulence at the moment. It's just unfortunate that it's come at the worst possible time for the UK as there's a lot of noise as to what is causing it.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 46,113

    I believe the new “in hindsight were we right/wrong to leave the EU” polling has hit a new high in terms of “Wrong”.

    34 Right
    50 Wrong

    That’s 42/58, removing Don’t Knows, had been sitting on 44/56 for quite a while.

    I really do not see the point as we have left , rightly or wrongly, and the question should be how we improve it but with Labour ruling out joining the single market it seems little is going to change anytime soon

    It’s useful to track the gradual (and eventually comprehensive) disillusion with the Groundnut Scheme 2.0.

    Maybe but it is not finding solutions and the main two parties are not offering them

    I believe we should join the single market and I really cannot fathom why Starmer and Lammy have comprehensively ruled it out

    Hopefully the lib dems will make it a
    manifesto commitment
    It’s a poll, not a manifesto.

    As for the single market, the issue is FOM.
    Labour can’t go there.
    Ironically, since immigration seems unabated, it just comes from other places.

    Maybe the Lib Dems can, although surely wouldn’t survive any coalition (or similar) commitment except for a general direction of travel.

    I believe it is time for the opposition to take a stand on the single market as the Brexit narrative is changing, and not in a good way for the conservatives

    Indeed they seem to think their old playbook will be popular, but then change is leaving them marooned in yesterday's arguments when normally the conservatives know how to change and win elections
    We need a new word for weathervane: one which has had a gallon of WD40 poured over it and changes direction every time someone so much as breathes over it.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 19,157
    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    I wonder if there is a podcast to be made out of PB

    You’re surely too busy watching Rick Steves videos working out where to go next?
    https://www.ricksteves.com/travel-tips/money/tipping-in-europe

    "As a matter of principle, if not economy, the local price should prevail. Please believe me — tipping 15 or 20 percent in Europe is unnecessary, if not culturally ignorant."
    Even 10% is showing yourself up as a clueless Bozo.

    Some of these Americans would be best advised to stay at home.
    You think, as they do, that Europe is homogenous? Tipping rules are the same in Estonia and Portugal?

    at least when they travel they are usually capable of leaving the dog at home.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 100,923
    edited June 30

    I am not sure why peolple bother responding to HYUFD.

    I knew when I posted the original poll he would come out with his dishonest nonsense.

    Same with Sandpit and his fact-free nonsense about low skill wage hikes.

    You do realise I voted Remain in 2016, however I also respected the result.

    For Brexit was wrong let alone Rejoin to still not even get over 50% including don't knows shows little has changed. Plus of course even Starmer has ruled out rejoining the EU and single market as he knows it is political suicide in the redwall
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 14,513
    HYUFD said:

    I am not sure why peolple bother responding to HYUFD.

    I knew when I posted the original poll he would come out with his dishonest nonsense.

    Same with Sandpit and his fact-free nonsense about low skill wage hikes.

    You do realise I voted Remain in 2016, however I also respected the result.

    For Remain to still not even get over 50% including don't knows shows little has changed. Plus of course even Starmer has ruled out rejoining the EU and single market as he knows it is political suicide in the redwall
    Respect for the vote does not require dishonest stat-chopping, or non-sequiturs about Keir Starmer.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 46,113

    HYUFD said:

    I believe the new “in hindsight were we right/wrong to leave the EU” polling has hit a new high in terms of “Wrong”.

    34 Right
    50 Wrong

    That’s 42/58, removing Don’t Knows, had been sitting on 44/56 for quite a while.

    Or including don't knows Brexit Wrong just 2% up on the 48% who voted Remain in 2016
    Every time you make that claim, someone points out that you can't compare a poll where Leave + Remain have to add up to 100% with a poll where Good + Bad add up to 84%.

    But even taking your interpretation at face value, 52% Leave has become 34% right. That's grim.

    What the *+%#?! does the UK do if (when) the view of the people settles on "we've made a mistake that can't easily be reversed"? I can't see it being pretty.
    Rejoining the single market should be the objective and sooner rather than later
    Canada isn't in a single market with the USA.

    If we rejoin the single market then there's very little point in being outside the EU. If you accept Brexit then it would be better to accept any short term price that might come from restructuring and get on with things.
    But then you have a government telling people to accept the price for doing something they overall don't think is a good idea. Good luck selling that.

    The point is- there's no good way forward from here. What I'm wondering is not so much what will happen, but what happens to the psyche of a nation that concludes it has made a mistake but can't/won't do anything about it.
    Woah. There's always a way forward.

    The UK has a red hot employment market, is a world leader in tech and digital start-ups and has 1st or 2nd position in Europe for foreign investment; it's hugely influential. We're in a good place. Yes, there will be pain and problems caused by Brexit but it's very far from all being caused by them and nor will reversing it solve them all, and indeed will cause many new ones.

    Who knows what the future holds but I'm confident it's a bright one and I wouldn't trade our position for that of any country on the continent, including Germany.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 52,814
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    I believe the new “in hindsight were we right/wrong to leave the EU” polling has hit a new high in terms of “Wrong”.

    34 Right
    50 Wrong

    That’s 42/58, removing Don’t Knows, had been sitting on 44/56 for quite a while.

    Or including don't knows Brexit Wrong just 2% up on the 48% who voted Remain in 2016
    Every time you make that claim, someone points out that you can't compare a poll where Leave + Remain have to add up to 100% with a poll where Good + Bad add up to 84%.

    But even taking your interpretation at face value, 52% Leave has become 34% right. That's grim.

    What the *+%#?! does the UK do if (when) the view of the people settles on "we've made a mistake that can't easily be reversed"? I can't see it being pretty.
    In 2016 of course most DK's went Leave.

    Though if Labour want to fight the next general election on a campaign to rejoin the EU and hand the redwall back to Johnson and the Tories on a plate, be my guest
    Only SNP and Plaid will be for re-joining, though others may want to benefit from the single market
    Plaid only backs rejoining the single market now.

    https://www.business-live.co.uk/economic-development/plaid-cymru-calls-uk-rejoin-24344694

    Only the LDs and SNP have a long term aspiration still to rejoin the EU

    https://www.libdemvoice.org/lib-dems-back-long-term-aspiration-to-rejoin-eu-65957.html

    Labour only wants closer regulatory alignment, Starmer has ruled out rejoining and ruled out the single market and free movement
    Your quote 20 minutes ago:

    'Though if Labour want to fight the next general election on a campaign to rejoin the EU and hand the redwall back to Johnson and the Tories on a plate, be my guest'

    and now

    'Labour only wants closer regulatory alignment, Starmer has ruled out rejoining and ruled out the single market and free movement'

    and you wonder why your credibility is questioned
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 41,002
    IshmaelZ said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    I wonder if there is a podcast to be made out of PB

    You’re surely too busy watching Rick Steves videos working out where to go next?
    https://www.ricksteves.com/travel-tips/money/tipping-in-europe

    "As a matter of principle, if not economy, the local price should prevail. Please believe me — tipping 15 or 20 percent in Europe is unnecessary, if not culturally ignorant."
    Even 10% is showing yourself up as a clueless Bozo.

    Some of these Americans would be best advised to stay at home.
    You think, as they do, that Europe is homogenous? Tipping rules are the same in Estonia and Portugal?

    at least when they travel they are usually capable of leaving the dog at home.
    Their dogs would likely be embarrassed had they come along.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 8,968

    Scott_xP said:

    Is BoZo about to make it illegal to drive to Europe?

    PM's spokesperson confirms new cars in the UK will NOT have to have speed limiters put in them from next week

    "There are no plans to make intelligent speed assistance compulsory in all new vehicles from July 6...

    "The EU is doing that but we are committed to making use of new and emerging technology to improve roads, road safety for motorists across the nation."

    https://twitter.com/NatashaC/status/1542550212664762369

    I don't see how. 99% of the cars in Europe won't have a speed limiter either (except possibly one that only DuraAce would reach)
    What it will do, presumably, is make it harder to import second-hand cars into Ireland from the UK, as time passes. Given the barriers the Irish government erects to frustrate that trade the only people who will complain will be the poor sods in Ireland forced to pay inflated prices for cars.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 52,574

    I believe the new “in hindsight were we right/wrong to leave the EU” polling has hit a new high in terms of “Wrong”.

    34 Right
    50 Wrong

    That’s 42/58, removing Don’t Knows, had been sitting on 44/56 for quite a while.

    I really do not see the point as we have left , rightly or wrongly, and the question should be how we improve it but with Labour ruling out joining the single market it seems little is going to change anytime soon

    It’s useful to track the gradual (and eventually comprehensive) disillusion with the Groundnut Scheme 2.0.

    Maybe but it is not finding solutions and the main two parties are not offering them

    I believe we should join the single market and I really cannot fathom why Starmer and Lammy have comprehensively ruled it out

    Hopefully the lib dems will make it a
    manifesto commitment
    It’s a poll, not a manifesto.

    As for the single market, the issue is FOM.
    Labour can’t go there.
    Ironically, since immigration seems unabated, it just comes from other places.

    Maybe the Lib Dems can, although surely wouldn’t survive any coalition (or similar) commitment except for a general direction of travel.

    I believe it is time for the opposition to take a stand on the single market as the Brexit narrative is changing, and not in a good way for the conservatives

    Indeed they seem to think their old playbook will be popular, but then change is leaving them marooned in yesterday's arguments when normally the conservatives know how to change and win elections
    We need a new word for weathervane: one which has had a gallon of WD40 poured over it and changes direction every time someone so much as breathes over it.
    The only way either major party is going to pursue SM status is if a) EU has some kind of brainstorm and accepts a member that does not allow unlimited FOM (unlikely but not utterly impossible), or, b) after at least a decade of a failing economy where labour shortages are the main issue (e.g. farming, hospitality etc etc).

    There's a fix to be made where EU allow UK SM membership with controls on overall FOM numbers but they wont go there unless something changes in next few years.

  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 9,077
    RyeGuy said:

    At a Rugby League World Cup press conference in today's date.
    Nadine Dorries, sec of state for sport, is special guest.
    “I’ve always liked the idea of rugby league. That drop goal in 2003 was such a special moment.”
    That drop goal was actually in the Rugby Union World Cup.

    https://twitter.com/chrishallitv/status/1542488532274618368

    I hope it all works out, it would be really cool! :)
    Welcome! Though when it comes to this topic, am even more baffled that Rt. Hon. ND.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 52,574
    Leon said:

    Still no mosquitoes

    Maybe turn the binoculars the other way around?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 23,828
    edited June 30
    Montenegro is on the edge of the EU but outside it. Seems to be doing “OK”. Meanwhile, my gin has arrived





  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 9,077
    Boris Johnson is clearly a huge fan of Bill Clinton.

    “Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery that mediocrity can pay to greatness.” - Oscar Wilde

    Not sure I concur with 2nd half of that re: BC, but no doubt about 1st.

  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 52,574

    The blocker to the single market is FOM.

    The UK is going to have to learn to love FOM.
    It’s not impossible, the UK is generally more liberal on immigration than lots of places.

    Those that study these things seem to say quite often that it is the idea of control that matters to voting public. If there is democratic control here in UK on overall numbers then they don't mind.

    I'm sceptical to be honest.

  • CatManCatMan Posts: 1,737

    Etiquette in Britain is tricky.

    If you are a posh woman, it's acceptable to give your married boss a blow job in the office but if you are a working class woman don't even think about going to the opera or having a class of bubbly.

    https://twitter.com/SiobhanBenita/status/1542521543355379714

    I wonder if this BJ and his BJ story is going to end up being reported in the main press. I mean if it wasn't true we'd know it already.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 102,739
    The BBC will show highlights of Champions League football for the first time from 2024 after a successful bid in Uefa’s TV rights auction, The Times can reveal.

    Amazon Prime will also broadcast some live matches from Uefa’s new-look competition in the UK for the first time with BT Sport retaining the bulk of the TV rights.

    The deals are set to be announced by Uefa on Friday and European football’s governing body will benefit from a 15 per cent increase in its income from the UK rights from £1.2 billion for the existing three-year deal to about £1.4 billion from 2024 to 2027, according to sources with knowledge of the negotiations.

    The BBC’s package means it will show highlights of Champions League matches on Wednesday nights and will be a coup for the broadcaster which will be able to have a midweek Match of The Day to show clips from the European games, as well as Premier League highlights shows on Saturdays and Sundays.

    Sources said the BBC has committed significant resources to bidding for the highlights.

    BT Sport is set to form a new joint venture with Warner Bros Discovery, and retaining the Champions League, Europa League and Europa Conference League rights was one of the top priorities for the new venture.

    Amazon is set to get the first pick of matches to show live on Tuesday nights and BT Sport will have all the other games and highlights.

    The new format of the Champions League means it will expand from 32 to 36 teams under a new “Swiss model” with 189 matches per season compared to the existing 125.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/bbc-to-show-champions-league-highlights-for-the-first-time-55pp98smr
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379
    RH1992 said:

    HYUFD said:

    I believe the new “in hindsight were we right/wrong to leave the EU” polling has hit a new high in terms of “Wrong”.

    34 Right
    50 Wrong

    That’s 42/58, removing Don’t Knows, had been sitting on 44/56 for quite a while.

    Or including don't knows Brexit Wrong just 2% up on the 48% who voted Remain in 2016
    Every time you make that claim, someone points out that you can't compare a poll where Leave + Remain have to add up to 100% with a poll where Good + Bad add up to 84%.

    But even taking your interpretation at face value, 52% Leave has become 34% right. That's grim.

    What the *+%#?! does the UK do if (when) the view of the people settles on "we've made a mistake that can't easily be reversed"? I can't see it being pretty.
    Rejoining the single market should be the objective and sooner rather than later
    Canada isn't in a single market with the USA.

    If we rejoin the single market then there's very little point in being outside the EU. If you accept Brexit then it would be better to accept any short term price that might come from restructuring and get on with things.
    But then you have a government telling people to accept the price for doing something they overall don't think is a good idea. Good luck selling that.

    The point is- there's no good way forward from here. What I'm wondering is not so much what will happen, but what happens to the psyche of a nation that concludes it has made a mistake but can't/won't do anything about it.
    That relies on the assumption that in 5 years time the public still thinks this was a mistake that needs rectifying. Should the economy stabilise/improve in the medium term, even if you can demonstrate that it was a mistake to leave the single market, I can't see the public wanting to rock the boat. If standards of living are improving again, the public will want to stick with the status quo as changing things will just open wounds or cause more political/economic instability.

    Let's not forget that this is not a uniquely British problem either, there's worldwide turbulence at the moment. It's just unfortunate that it's come at the worst possible time for the UK as there's a lot of noise as to what is causing it.
    https://news.yahoo.com/why-are-so-many-people-having-trouble-with-luggage-at-canadian-airports-174750006.html

    Because of Brexit?
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 14,513

    The blocker to the single market is FOM.

    The UK is going to have to learn to love FOM.
    It’s not impossible, the UK is generally more liberal on immigration than lots of places.

    Those that study these things seem to say quite often that it is the idea of control that matters to voting public. If there is democratic control here in UK on overall numbers then they don't mind.

    I'm sceptical to be honest.

    I’m not at all convinced by that.

    Evidence also shows that concern with immigration directly follows the amount of attention paid by the right-wing tabloids.

    In my opinion the UK is *still* not honest about immigration. Numbers are high, and by no means are they all skilled. They are also, frankly, coming from less assimilable places.

    The government is playing catch up trying to respond to disastrous labour shortages and so is binging anything short of “bottle-washer” on the desired occupations list.
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 6,604
    edited June 30
    So the Govt freezes the BBC Licence fee for two years and there is endless screaming about the Govt attacking the BBC, cuts etc.

    And guess what happens next?

    The BBC is so hard up that it's just bought the rights to show highlights of the Champions League for the first time ever!

    The Govt could have been much, much tougher.

    Cameron froze the LF for six years, this Govt should certainly have frozen it for more than two.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 14,513
    CatMan said:

    Etiquette in Britain is tricky.

    If you are a posh woman, it's acceptable to give your married boss a blow job in the office but if you are a working class woman don't even think about going to the opera or having a class of bubbly.

    https://twitter.com/SiobhanBenita/status/1542521543355379714

    I wonder if this BJ and his BJ story is going to end up being reported in the main press. I mean if it wasn't true we'd know it already.
    The problem is not the BJ, which it would be churlish to obsess about.

    It’s the fact that he tried to give his mistress a range of government jobs.
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 1,737
    People like FOM when it applies to them. When other people (especially from those loser countries in Eastern Europe) have them they don't.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 40,207

    I am not sure why peolple bother responding to HYUFD.

    I knew when I posted the original poll he would come out with his dishonest nonsense.

    Same with Sandpit and his fact-free nonsense about low skill wage hikes.

    Okay, I’ll give you some “fact free nonsense” from the Office For National Statistics, who announced a record 1.3m vacancies this month.
    https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/employmentandemployeetypes/bulletins/jobsandvacanciesintheuk/latest

    I’ll even give you the Guardian moaning about pay rises and sign-on bonuses : https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/aug/29/so-whats-so-wrong-with-labour-shortages-driving-up-low-wages
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 5,884
    edited June 30

    The blocker to the single market is FOM.

    The UK is going to have to learn to love FOM.
    It’s not impossible, the UK is generally more liberal on immigration than lots of places.

    Indeed. Our population is a couple of million up since the 2016 referendum.
  • eekeek Posts: 20,255
    MikeL said:

    So the Govt freezes the BBC Licence fee for two years and there is endless screaming about the Govt attacking the BBC, cuts etc.

    And guess what happens next?

    The BBC buys the rights to show highlights of the Champions League for the first time ever!

    The Govt could have been much, much tougher.

    Cameron froze the LF for six years, this Govt should certainly have frozen it for more than two.

    The only person saying that the BBC has got the rights is the Times - I will wait for a non biased report.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 14,513
    Sandpit said:

    I am not sure why peolple bother responding to HYUFD.

    I knew when I posted the original poll he would come out with his dishonest nonsense.

    Same with Sandpit and his fact-free nonsense about low skill wage hikes.

    Okay, I’ll give you some “fact free nonsense” from the Office For National Statistics, who announced a record 1.3m vacancies this month.
    https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/employmentandemployeetypes/bulletins/jobsandvacanciesintheuk/latest

    I’ll even give you the Guardian moaning about pay rises and sign-on bonuses : https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/aug/29/so-whats-so-wrong-with-labour-shortages-driving-up-low-wages

    No one is disputing a massive labour shortage.

    Your wages reference is a year old, is from renowned Brexitard Larry Elliott, and offers no data except a reference to sign-on bonus offered by Tesco during that truck driver shortage.

    The actual wage data shows no spike for
    low skilled workers.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 19,000
    MikeL said:

    So the Govt freezes the BBC Licence fee for two years and there is endless screaming about the Govt attacking the BBC, cuts etc.

    And guess what happens next?

    The BBC is so hard up that it's just bought the rights to show highlights of the Champions League for the first time ever!

    The Govt could have been much, much tougher.

    Cameron froze the LF for six years, this Govt should certainly have frozen it for more than two.

    Rejoice and cancel the BT subscription
  • stodgestodge Posts: 10,491
    Evening all :)

    There's a lot (and I mean a lot) about the way we have gone about leaving the EU and the post-EU arrangements which in my view which has been stupid, short-sighted or so riddled with arcane notions of sovereignty, "leverage" and seeking dubious advantage as to be borderline malevolent.

    All of that said, we couldn't go on as we were - there were only two credible positions, either we were enthusiastically members which meant adopting the Euro, Schengen and all the rest which we could have done (I'm NOT saying "should") and which in turn would have altered the dynamic of the EU or we stood on the outside wishing it well, looking for a mutually beneficial economic and trading relationship but not getting politically involved.

    Instead, incredibly, we did neither. We embarked on a half-hearted, mean-spirited, penny-pinching, griping, moaning membership - endlessly complaining and rarely, if ever, trying to set the agenda. That was the fault of successive Governments over 50 years - it's little wonder both the British people and the EU got fed up.

    So we're out and we have to make it work and we have to ask the hard questions about our role in the world which we've probably dodged since 1945 (certainly since Suez and arguably fudged during our EU membership).

    While I would not wish the human misery and suffering of the Ukraine on anyone, one by-product has been to re-energise "the West" with a new sense of purpose which arguably it had lacked since the USSR collapsed. It has given the UK a new sense of a role in the western alliance and has re-energised NATO. That said, the world isn't either Europe or NATO and we have to be an economic power in Latin America, the Far East and the Indian Sub-Continent all areas of economic potential and challenge.

    The failure to really flesh out what "Global Britain" means (beyond a cheap slogan) has left the future uncertain - we can't just be a place for the mega-wealthy to buy houses, drive fast cars and shop. Our lot cannot just be a servants of mega-wealth yet the pandemic has also set in train other forces.

    As I argued last night, the pandemic forced some to question the viability of their work-life existence and for them a life without work isn't the nightmare we were conditioned to believe. Indeed, there are those who have moved beyond the old adage of "you work to live, you don't live to work" and especially if materially capable and able have turned their back on the working life in search of something else.

    The post-work world is one which I think will develop and grow in the next few decades as more and more seek a life meaning beyond the "eat, work, sleep, repeat" mantra of past decades.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 23,828

    Leon said:

    Still no mosquitoes

    Maybe turn the binoculars the other way around?
    It’s honestly weird. I sit outside halfbollock naked (sorry) every evening, and I’ve been bitten maybe once in 5 days

    Is it the karst landscape? It is definitely a thing

    Which makes me wonder. Is this it? Have I found the perfect place, at last? Beautiful stark mountains descending to warm clean Mediterranean seas. Cypresses and umbrella pines. Lovely women. Beautiful medieval villages. Friendly people. Lovely women. Grandiose national parks just beyond the coast. Did I mention the women? Not so many tourists outside Kotor. THE WOMEN

    In fact, it isn’t paradise. The food is meh and the roads are crazy and it must be dull as dung in winter, and corruption is a major issue

    But a little corner of the world to have an apartment by the sea? Hmmmm
  • LeonLeon Posts: 23,828
    Tivat has 3045 annual hours of sunshine. London has about 1600. Paris has about 1800. Rome has 2500. Nice has 2550

    Tivat has 3045
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 33,420
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Still no mosquitoes

    Maybe turn the binoculars the other way around?
    It’s honestly weird. I sit outside halfbollock naked (sorry) every evening, and I’ve been bitten maybe once in 5 days

    Is it the karst landscape? It is definitely a thing

    Which makes me wonder. Is this it? Have I found the perfect place, at last? Beautiful stark mountains descending to warm clean Mediterranean seas. Cypresses and umbrella pines. Lovely women. Beautiful medieval villages. Friendly people. Lovely women. Grandiose national parks just beyond the coast. Did I mention the women? Not so many tourists outside Kotor. THE WOMEN

    In fact, it isn’t paradise. The food is meh and the roads are crazy and it must be dull as dung in winter, and corruption is a major issue

    But a little corner of the world to have an apartment by the sea? Hmmmm
    If it is so fascinating on a first visit, why spend all day on PB?

  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 14,513
    Leon said:

    Tivat has 3045 annual hours of sunshine. London has about 1600. Paris has about 1800. Rome has 2500. Nice has 2550

    Tivat has 3045

    New York 2535.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 2,689

    Leon said:

    Tivat has 3045 annual hours of sunshine. London has about 1600. Paris has about 1800. Rome has 2500. Nice has 2550

    Tivat has 3045

    New York 2535.
    Glasgow laughs in the face of such numbers.
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 1,737
    edited June 30
    Leon said:

    Tivat has 3045 annual hours of sunshine. London has about 1600. Paris has about 1800. Rome has 2500. Nice has 2550

    Tivat has 3045

    If you live in the UK, move to Brighton!



    https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/384846730648723868/
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 14,615

    CatMan said:

    Etiquette in Britain is tricky.

    If you are a posh woman, it's acceptable to give your married boss a blow job in the office but if you are a working class woman don't even think about going to the opera or having a class of bubbly.

    https://twitter.com/SiobhanBenita/status/1542521543355379714

    I wonder if this BJ and his BJ story is going to end up being reported in the main press. I mean if it wasn't true we'd know it already.
    The problem is not the BJ, which it would be churlish to obsess about.

    It’s the fact that he tried to give his mistress a range of government jobs.
    Blow it, I have been trying to follow this story but have now lost track of who was giving who the job.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 8,968

    HYUFD said:

    I believe the new “in hindsight were we right/wrong to leave the EU” polling has hit a new high in terms of “Wrong”.

    34 Right
    50 Wrong

    That’s 42/58, removing Don’t Knows, had been sitting on 44/56 for quite a while.

    Or including don't knows Brexit Wrong just 2% up on the 48% who voted Remain in 2016
    Every time you make that claim, someone points out that you can't compare a poll where Leave + Remain have to add up to 100% with a poll where Good + Bad add up to 84%.

    But even taking your interpretation at face value, 52% Leave has become 34% right. That's grim.

    What the *+%#?! does the UK do if (when) the view of the people settles on "we've made a mistake that can't easily be reversed"? I can't see it being pretty.
    Rejoining the single market should be the objective and sooner rather than later
    Canada isn't in a single market with the USA.

    If we rejoin the single market then there's very little point in being outside the EU. If you accept Brexit then it would be better to accept any short term price that might come from restructuring and get on with things.
    But then you have a government telling people to accept the price for doing something they overall don't think is a good idea. Good luck selling that.

    The point is- there's no good way forward from here. What I'm wondering is not so much what will happen, but what happens to the psyche of a nation that concludes it has made a mistake but can't/won't do anything about it.
    A scapegoat has to be found. The problem for Remainers is that they're still essentially saying "I told you so" which is asking people to blame themselves for making the mistake of voting Leave.

    Psychologically I think people will prefer to find any alternative explanation to blaming themselves. So the likely outcome is that they will blame the scapegoat offered to them by Leavers. It will be the stab in the back myth. Pretty ugly prospect.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 23,828
    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Still no mosquitoes

    Maybe turn the binoculars the other way around?
    It’s honestly weird. I sit outside halfbollock naked (sorry) every evening, and I’ve been bitten maybe once in 5 days

    Is it the karst landscape? It is definitely a thing

    Which makes me wonder. Is this it? Have I found the perfect place, at last? Beautiful stark mountains descending to warm clean Mediterranean seas. Cypresses and umbrella pines. Lovely women. Beautiful medieval villages. Friendly people. Lovely women. Grandiose national parks just beyond the coast. Did I mention the women? Not so many tourists outside Kotor. THE WOMEN

    In fact, it isn’t paradise. The food is meh and the roads are crazy and it must be dull as dung in winter, and corruption is a major issue

    But a little corner of the world to have an apartment by the sea? Hmmmm
    If it is so fascinating on a first visit, why spend all day on PB?

    To bring you the good news
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 15,523
    MikeL said:

    So the Govt freezes the BBC Licence fee for two years and there is endless screaming about the Govt attacking the BBC, cuts etc.

    And guess what happens next?

    The BBC is so hard up that it's just bought the rights to show highlights of the Champions League for the first time ever!

    The Govt could have been much, much tougher.

    Cameron froze the LF for six years, this Govt should certainly have frozen it for more than two.

    Highlights, not live matches.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 30,749
    Did you really have to say that? I can now imagine Starmer saying that in Brittas's voice...
  • TazTaz Posts: 5,353
    MikeL said:

    So the Govt freezes the BBC Licence fee for two years and there is endless screaming about the Govt attacking the BBC, cuts etc.

    And guess what happens next?

    The BBC is so hard up that it's just bought the rights to show highlights of the Champions League for the first time ever!

    The Govt could have been much, much tougher.

    Cameron froze the LF for six years, this Govt should certainly have frozen it for more than two.

    Absolutely they should, as a minimum if not reduce it year on year.

    They haven’t even got live games just a midweek highlights package.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 19,157

    CatMan said:

    Etiquette in Britain is tricky.

    If you are a posh woman, it's acceptable to give your married boss a blow job in the office but if you are a working class woman don't even think about going to the opera or having a class of bubbly.

    https://twitter.com/SiobhanBenita/status/1542521543355379714

    I wonder if this BJ and his BJ story is going to end up being reported in the main press. I mean if it wasn't true we'd know it already.
    The problem is not the BJ, which it would be churlish to obsess about.

    It’s the fact that he tried to give his mistress a range of government jobs.
    Blow it, I have been trying to follow this story but have now lost track of who was giving who the job.
    Blowjobs for FOjobs is how I remember it
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 9,077
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Still no mosquitoes

    Maybe turn the binoculars the other way around?
    It’s honestly weird. I sit outside halfbollock naked (sorry) every evening, and I’ve been bitten maybe once in 5 days

    Is it the karst landscape? It is definitely a thing

    Which makes me wonder. Is this it? Have I found the perfect place, at last? Beautiful stark mountains descending to warm clean Mediterranean seas. Cypresses and umbrella pines. Lovely women. Beautiful medieval villages. Friendly people. Lovely women. Grandiose national parks just beyond the coast. Did I mention the women? Not so many tourists outside Kotor. THE WOMEN

    In fact, it isn’t paradise. The food is meh and the roads are crazy and it must be dull as dung in winter, and corruption is a major issue

    But a little corner of the world to have an apartment by the sea? Hmmmm
    Might be best NOT to inform locals of fact that your Prime Minister had a Turkish great-grandfather, Ali Kemal.

    Who (according to his wiki entry) called for Ottoman Empire to declare war against the Balkan League in October 1912; five days later Montenegro declared war against the Ottomans, sparking First Balkan War.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 14,513
    edited June 30

    HYUFD said:

    I believe the new “in hindsight were we right/wrong to leave the EU” polling has hit a new high in terms of “Wrong”.

    34 Right
    50 Wrong

    That’s 42/58, removing Don’t Knows, had been sitting on 44/56 for quite a while.

    Or including don't knows Brexit Wrong just 2% up on the 48% who voted Remain in 2016
    Every time you make that claim, someone points out that you can't compare a poll where Leave + Remain have to add up to 100% with a poll where Good + Bad add up to 84%.

    But even taking your interpretation at face value, 52% Leave has become 34% right. That's grim.

    What the *+%#?! does the UK do if (when) the view of the people settles on "we've made a mistake that can't easily be reversed"? I can't see it being pretty.
    Rejoining the single market should be the objective and sooner rather than later
    Canada isn't in a single market with the USA.

    If we rejoin the single market then there's very little point in being outside the EU. If you accept Brexit then it would be better to accept any short term price that might come from restructuring and get on with things.
    But then you have a government telling people to accept the price for doing something they overall don't think is a good idea. Good luck selling that.

    The point is- there's no good way forward from here. What I'm wondering is not so much what will happen, but what happens to the psyche of a nation that concludes it has made a mistake but can't/won't do anything about it.
    A scapegoat has to be found. The problem for Remainers is that they're still essentially saying "I told you so" which is asking people to blame themselves for making the mistake of voting Leave. I

    Psychologically I think people will prefer to find any alternative explanation to blaming themselves. So the likely outcome is that they will blame the scapegoat offered to them by Leavers. It will be the stab in the back myth. Pretty ugly prospect.
    The culprits are a bunch of privately educated blaggers and chancers.

    David Cameron.
    Nigel Farage.
    Boris Johnson.
    Jacob Rees-Mogg.
    Daniel Hannan.

    Ironic, as Brexit is essentially a lower middle class, Tebbity-nostalgic, affliction.
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 1,737
    edited June 30
    CatMan said:

    Leon said:

    Tivat has 3045 annual hours of sunshine. London has about 1600. Paris has about 1800. Rome has 2500. Nice has 2550

    Tivat has 3045

    If you live in the UK, move to Brighton!



    https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/384846730648723868/
    You probably can't see it in that image but if you click on this link (https://www.mapmania.org/map/60085/hours_of_sunshine_per_year__europe_v_the_united_states ), the Southern coast of South of England gets as much sunshine as most of Southern France!
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 41,647

    The BBC will show highlights of Champions League football for the first time from 2024 after a successful bid in Uefa’s TV rights auction, The Times can reveal.

    Amazon Prime will also broadcast some live matches from Uefa’s new-look competition in the UK for the first time with BT Sport retaining the bulk of the TV rights.

    The deals are set to be announced by Uefa on Friday and European football’s governing body will benefit from a 15 per cent increase in its income from the UK rights from £1.2 billion for the existing three-year deal to about £1.4 billion from 2024 to 2027, according to sources with knowledge of the negotiations.

    The BBC’s package means it will show highlights of Champions League matches on Wednesday nights and will be a coup for the broadcaster which will be able to have a midweek Match of The Day to show clips from the European games, as well as Premier League highlights shows on Saturdays and Sundays.

    Sources said the BBC has committed significant resources to bidding for the highlights.

    BT Sport is set to form a new joint venture with Warner Bros Discovery, and retaining the Champions League, Europa League and Europa Conference League rights was one of the top priorities for the new venture.

    Amazon is set to get the first pick of matches to show live on Tuesday nights and BT Sport will have all the other games and highlights.

    The new format of the Champions League means it will expand from 32 to 36 teams under a new “Swiss model” with 189 matches per season compared to the existing 125.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/bbc-to-show-champions-league-highlights-for-the-first-time-55pp98smr

    This program is brought to you by UK Licence Fee payers - UEFA Champions League sponsors!
  • TazTaz Posts: 5,353
    eek said:

    MikeL said:

    So the Govt freezes the BBC Licence fee for two years and there is endless screaming about the Govt attacking the BBC, cuts etc.

    And guess what happens next?

    The BBC buys the rights to show highlights of the Champions League for the first time ever!

    The Govt could have been much, much tougher.

    Cameron froze the LF for six years, this Govt should certainly have frozen it for more than two.

    The only person saying that the BBC has got the rights is the Times - I will wait for a non biased report.
    eek said:

    MikeL said:

    So the Govt freezes the BBC Licence fee for two years and there is endless screaming about the Govt attacking the BBC, cuts etc.

    And guess what happens next?

    The BBC buys the rights to show highlights of the Champions League for the first time ever!

    The Govt could have been much, much tougher.

    Cameron froze the LF for six years, this Govt should certainly have frozen it for more than two.

    The only person saying that the BBC has got the rights is the Times - I will wait for a non biased report.
    Guardian too https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/jun/30/amazon-close-to-secure-deal-over-champions-league-rights-in-uk?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 6,604
    edited June 30

    MikeL said:

    So the Govt freezes the BBC Licence fee for two years and there is endless screaming about the Govt attacking the BBC, cuts etc.

    And guess what happens next?

    The BBC is so hard up that it's just bought the rights to show highlights of the Champions League for the first time ever!

    The Govt could have been much, much tougher.

    Cameron froze the LF for six years, this Govt should certainly have frozen it for more than two.

    Highlights, not live matches.
    I know - I said highlights!

    Of course it's only highlights - live games would have cost way, way too much.

    But it's still a notable additional cost being taken on for the first time which they could easily have managed without. Thus showing that they still have more money than they need.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 23,828
    CatMan said:

    Leon said:

    Tivat has 3045 annual hours of sunshine. London has about 1600. Paris has about 1800. Rome has 2500. Nice has 2550

    Tivat has 3045

    If you live in the UK, move to Brighton!



    https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/384846730648723868/
    I am mildly obsessed with sunshine hours (as weather affects my mood quite a lot, and I am prone to moods)

    The USA enjoys vastly more sunshine than Europe. It is one of the reasons I used to think about moving there, but not any more, the American negatives now significantly outweigh the positives (for me, personally. as a Brit)

    The ideal one should seek (as a sun lover) is desert-like hours of sunshine but with a fertile and seasonal climate. The eastern Adriatic coast gets quite close to that ideal
  • TazTaz Posts: 5,353
    edited June 30

    MikeL said:

    So the Govt freezes the BBC Licence fee for two years and there is endless screaming about the Govt attacking the BBC, cuts etc.

    And guess what happens next?

    The BBC is so hard up that it's just bought the rights to show highlights of the Champions League for the first time ever!

    The Govt could have been much, much tougher.

    Cameron froze the LF for six years, this Govt should certainly have frozen it for more than two.

    Rejoice and cancel the BT subscription
    For a midweek highlights package ?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 41,002
    CatMan said:

    CatMan said:

    Leon said:

    Tivat has 3045 annual hours of sunshine. London has about 1600. Paris has about 1800. Rome has 2500. Nice has 2550

    Tivat has 3045

    If you live in the UK, move to Brighton!



    https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/384846730648723868/
    You probably can't see it in that image but if you click on this link (https://www.mapmania.org/map/60085/hours_of_sunshine_per_year__europe_v_the_united_states ), the Southern coast of South of England gets as much sunshine as most of Southern France!
    Where I live claims to be the sunniest place in the UK. Although there are other places that also claim the same.

    My observation is that most of the extra sun we get is in September, October and November.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 14,513
    Leon said:

    CatMan said:

    Leon said:

    Tivat has 3045 annual hours of sunshine. London has about 1600. Paris has about 1800. Rome has 2500. Nice has 2550

    Tivat has 3045

    If you live in the UK, move to Brighton!



    https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/384846730648723868/
    I am mildly obsessed with sunshine hours (as weather affects my mood quite a lot, and I am prone to moods)

    The USA enjoys vastly more sunshine than Europe. It is one of the reasons I used to think about moving there, but not any more, the American negatives now significantly outweigh the positives (for me, personally. as a Brit)

    The ideal one should seek (as a sun lover) is desert-like hours of sunshine but with a fertile and seasonal climate. The eastern Adriatic coast gets quite close to that ideal
    Me too (sun hour obsession) once I realised why British winters got me down. It’s not the cold, it’s the gloom.

    I’m now looking for a place in Europe that near-replicates the climate I grew up with. I think northern Portugal or Galicia.

    Probably rainy, but I don’t mind the rain.

  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 41,002
    Leon said:

    CatMan said:

    Leon said:

    Tivat has 3045 annual hours of sunshine. London has about 1600. Paris has about 1800. Rome has 2500. Nice has 2550

    Tivat has 3045

    If you live in the UK, move to Brighton!



    https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/384846730648723868/
    I am mildly obsessed with sunshine hours (as weather affects my mood quite a lot, and I am prone to moods)

    The USA enjoys vastly more sunshine than Europe. It is one of the reasons I used to think about moving there, but not any more, the American negatives now significantly outweigh the positives (for me, personally. as a Brit)

    The ideal one should seek (as a sun lover) is desert-like hours of sunshine but with a fertile and seasonal climate. The eastern Adriatic coast gets quite close to that ideal
    In the US you just have to worry about those few times when it isn’t sunny, since the chance is high that your home is being destroyed by some other type of weather event.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 23,828
    Taz said:

    MikeL said:

    So the Govt freezes the BBC Licence fee for two years and there is endless screaming about the Govt attacking the BBC, cuts etc.

    And guess what happens next?

    The BBC is so hard up that it's just bought the rights to show highlights of the Champions League for the first time ever!

    The Govt could have been much, much tougher.

    Cameron froze the LF for six years, this Govt should certainly have frozen it for more than two.

    Rejoice and cancel the BT subscription
    For a midweek highlights package ?
    People have got used to live action football, as they should

    Who the F cares about highlights? You can watch them on YouTube. A bizarre purchase by the Beeb
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 30,749
    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Still no mosquitoes

    Maybe turn the binoculars the other way around?
    It’s honestly weird. I sit outside halfbollock naked (sorry) every evening, and I’ve been bitten maybe once in 5 days

    Is it the karst landscape? It is definitely a thing

    Which makes me wonder. Is this it? Have I found the perfect place, at last? Beautiful stark mountains descending to warm clean Mediterranean seas. Cypresses and umbrella pines. Lovely women. Beautiful medieval villages. Friendly people. Lovely women. Grandiose national parks just beyond the coast. Did I mention the women? Not so many tourists outside Kotor. THE WOMEN

    In fact, it isn’t paradise. The food is meh and the roads are crazy and it must be dull as dung in winter, and corruption is a major issue

    But a little corner of the world to have an apartment by the sea? Hmmmm
    If it is so fascinating on a first visit, why spend all day on PB?

    Because Leon is more than one man: he can multitask. Whilst Leon types on PB like a one-handed Sallie's Monkey, Lady_G is entertaining the local whores, SeanT is in a drugged stupour in a ditch, whilst another, yet unknown version enjoys the holiday.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 52,574
    edited June 30
    Taz said:

    MikeL said:

    So the Govt freezes the BBC Licence fee for two years and there is endless screaming about the Govt attacking the BBC, cuts etc.

    And guess what happens next?

    The BBC is so hard up that it's just bought the rights to show highlights of the Champions League for the first time ever!

    The Govt could have been much, much tougher.

    Cameron froze the LF for six years, this Govt should certainly have frozen it for more than two.

    Rejoice and cancel the BT subscription
    For a midweek highlights package ?
    The BBC has just spent millions on a revamp on TV news that is a) shite b) nobody but characters from W1A wanted or even dreamed about.

    Who the feck makes these decisions?

    Edit: If anyone on here has met a single person who thinks the new look News at 10 walkathon bollocks is any good then please hit the anecdata button.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 14,513
    EU and NZ have just agreed a trade deal.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 23,828

    Leon said:

    CatMan said:

    Leon said:

    Tivat has 3045 annual hours of sunshine. London has about 1600. Paris has about 1800. Rome has 2500. Nice has 2550

    Tivat has 3045

    If you live in the UK, move to Brighton!



    https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/384846730648723868/
    I am mildly obsessed with sunshine hours (as weather affects my mood quite a lot, and I am prone to moods)

    The USA enjoys vastly more sunshine than Europe. It is one of the reasons I used to think about moving there, but not any more, the American negatives now significantly outweigh the positives (for me, personally. as a Brit)

    The ideal one should seek (as a sun lover) is desert-like hours of sunshine but with a fertile and seasonal climate. The eastern Adriatic coast gets quite close to that ideal
    Me too (sun hour obsession) once I realised why British winters got me down. It’s not the cold, it’s the gloom.

    I’m now looking for a place in Europe that near-replicates the climate I grew up with. I think northern Portugal or Galicia.

    Probably rainy, but I don’t mind the rain.

    Not keen on rain either, personally (Why, God, was i born in England???) but I do like green hills and trees, I don’t want a desert

    Northern Portugal is a good bet (and it is still quite cheap, at least inland). Even if global warming spirals out of control Porto and environs will likely remain pleasantly habitable for the rest of your lifetime

    Southern Spain, hmm, not so much

    Portuguese food is a bit rubbish tho, once you get beyond the sardines and the cataplana. Galician food is much more inventive
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 34,010
    Tiny Matt Frei interviewing the Klitschko brothers on C4 news. When will Tyson Fury enter politics?
  • gettingbettergettingbetter Posts: 357
    MikeL said:

    MikeL said:

    So the Govt freezes the BBC Licence fee for two years and there is endless screaming about the Govt attacking the BBC, cuts etc.

    And guess what happens next?

    The BBC is so hard up that it's just bought the rights to show highlights of the Champions League for the first time ever!

    The Govt could have been much, much tougher.

    Cameron froze the LF for six years, this Govt should certainly have frozen it for more than two.

    Highlights, not live matches.
    I know - I said highlights!

    Of course it's only highlights - live games would have cost way, way too much.

    But it's still a notable additional cost being taken on for the first time which they could easily have managed without. Thus showing that they still have more money than they need.
    It doesn't make any sense. Our national broadcaster should try to make sure that national sporting events are available to watch on normal TV, things that are part of our British culture like the FA Cup, Wimbledon, Ascot, Henley and Test Matches. But the Champions League not really.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 8,968
    There are regular updates on this story on RTÉ, who describe it as, "the largest adult safeguarding scandal in NHS history," but I've not seen or heard anything about it in the London media.

    Surely this is a big story.

    https://www.rte.ie/news/ulster/2022/0630/1307702-muckamore-inquiry/
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 15,523
    edited June 30
    MikeL said:

    MikeL said:

    So the Govt freezes the BBC Licence fee for two years and there is endless screaming about the Govt attacking the BBC, cuts etc.

    And guess what happens next?

    The BBC is so hard up that it's just bought the rights to show highlights of the Champions League for the first time ever!

    The Govt could have been much, much tougher.

    Cameron froze the LF for six years, this Govt should certainly have frozen it for more than two.

    Highlights, not live matches.
    I know - I said highlights!

    Of course it's only highlights - live games would have cost way, way too much.

    But it's still a notable additional cost being taken on for the first time which they could easily have managed without. Thus showing that they still have more money than they need.
    Yes but this level of debate is silly — the BBC is spending money on something I don't approve of, be it this or Eastenders or Radio One. The BBC is in the business of showing sport; this is sport. Inform, educate and entertain. We await the details but a highlights package is unlikely to break the bank.

    ETA and yes it may be an additional cost but that is true of any new drama series.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 19,157
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    CatMan said:

    Leon said:

    Tivat has 3045 annual hours of sunshine. London has about 1600. Paris has about 1800. Rome has 2500. Nice has 2550

    Tivat has 3045

    If you live in the UK, move to Brighton!



    https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/384846730648723868/
    I am mildly obsessed with sunshine hours (as weather affects my mood quite a lot, and I am prone to moods)

    The USA enjoys vastly more sunshine than Europe. It is one of the reasons I used to think about moving there, but not any more, the American negatives now significantly outweigh the positives (for me, personally. as a Brit)

    The ideal one should seek (as a sun lover) is desert-like hours of sunshine but with a fertile and seasonal climate. The eastern Adriatic coast gets quite close to that ideal
    Me too (sun hour obsession) once I realised why British winters got me down. It’s not the cold, it’s the gloom.

    I’m now looking for a place in Europe that near-replicates the climate I grew up with. I think northern Portugal or Galicia.

    Probably rainy, but I don’t mind the rain.

    Not keen on rain either, personally (Why, God, was i born in England???) but I do like green hills and trees, I don’t want a desert

    Northern Portugal is a good bet (and it is still quite cheap, at least inland). Even if global warming spirals out of control Porto and environs will likely remain pleasantly habitable for the rest of your lifetime

    Southern Spain, hmm, not so much

    Portuguese food is a bit rubbish tho, once you get beyond the sardines and the cataplana. Galician food is much more inventive
    Sicilia
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 16,923

    The BBC will show highlights of Champions League football for the first time from 2024 after a successful bid in Uefa’s TV rights auction, The Times can reveal.

    Amazon Prime will also broadcast some live matches from Uefa’s new-look competition in the UK for the first time with BT Sport retaining the bulk of the TV rights.

    The deals are set to be announced by Uefa on Friday and European football’s governing body will benefit from a 15 per cent increase in its income from the UK rights from £1.2 billion for the existing three-year deal to about £1.4 billion from 2024 to 2027, according to sources with knowledge of the negotiations.

    The BBC’s package means it will show highlights of Champions League matches on Wednesday nights and will be a coup for the broadcaster which will be able to have a midweek Match of The Day to show clips from the European games, as well as Premier League highlights shows on Saturdays and Sundays.

    Sources said the BBC has committed significant resources to bidding for the highlights.

    BT Sport is set to form a new joint venture with Warner Bros Discovery, and retaining the Champions League, Europa League and Europa Conference League rights was one of the top priorities for the new venture.

    Amazon is set to get the first pick of matches to show live on Tuesday nights and BT Sport will have all the other games and highlights.

    The new format of the Champions League means it will expand from 32 to 36 teams under a new “Swiss model” with 189 matches per season compared to the existing 125.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/bbc-to-show-champions-league-highlights-for-the-first-time-55pp98smr

    I just looked up "Swiss Model" and got distracted...
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 2,689

    MikeL said:

    MikeL said:

    So the Govt freezes the BBC Licence fee for two years and there is endless screaming about the Govt attacking the BBC, cuts etc.

    And guess what happens next?

    The BBC is so hard up that it's just bought the rights to show highlights of the Champions League for the first time ever!

    The Govt could have been much, much tougher.

    Cameron froze the LF for six years, this Govt should certainly have frozen it for more than two.

    Highlights, not live matches.
    I know - I said highlights!

    Of course it's only highlights - live games would have cost way, way too much.

    But it's still a notable additional cost being taken on for the first time which they could easily have managed without. Thus showing that they still have more money than they need.
    Yes but this level of debate is silly — the BBC is spending money on something I don't approve of, be it this or Eastenders or Radio One. The BBC is in the business of showing sport; this is sport. Inform, educate and entertain. We await the details but a highlights package is unlikely to break the bank.

    ETA and yes it may be an additional cost but that is true of any new drama series.
    They could go the efficiency route and have storylines where Eastenders characters listen to Champions League highlights on Radio 1.
  • JACK_WJACK_W Posts: 584
    Naughty Whip ... :smiley:
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 15,523

    There are regular updates on this story on RTÉ, who describe it as, "the largest adult safeguarding scandal in NHS history," but I've not seen or heard anything about it in the London media.

    Surely this is a big story.

    https://www.rte.ie/news/ulster/2022/0630/1307702-muckamore-inquiry/

    Probably because it is in Northern Ireland and most of the media in London is distracted by events in America. The BBC has been reporting it though, for instance:
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-61983293
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 41,647

    The BBC will show highlights of Champions League football for the first time from 2024 after a successful bid in Uefa’s TV rights auction, The Times can reveal.

    Amazon Prime will also broadcast some live matches from Uefa’s new-look competition in the UK for the first time with BT Sport retaining the bulk of the TV rights.

    The deals are set to be announced by Uefa on Friday and European football’s governing body will benefit from a 15 per cent increase in its income from the UK rights from £1.2 billion for the existing three-year deal to about £1.4 billion from 2024 to 2027, according to sources with knowledge of the negotiations.

    The BBC’s package means it will show highlights of Champions League matches on Wednesday nights and will be a coup for the broadcaster which will be able to have a midweek Match of The Day to show clips from the European games, as well as Premier League highlights shows on Saturdays and Sundays.

    Sources said the BBC has committed significant resources to bidding for the highlights.

    BT Sport is set to form a new joint venture with Warner Bros Discovery, and retaining the Champions League, Europa League and Europa Conference League rights was one of the top priorities for the new venture.

    Amazon is set to get the first pick of matches to show live on Tuesday nights and BT Sport will have all the other games and highlights.

    The new format of the Champions League means it will expand from 32 to 36 teams under a new “Swiss model” with 189 matches per season compared to the existing 125.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/bbc-to-show-champions-league-highlights-for-the-first-time-55pp98smr

    I just looked up "Swiss Model" and got distracted...
    Never look up "Japanese AV Idol", even if you dislike FPTP.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 16,923
    Leon said:

    Still no mosquitoes

    Try watching 633 Squadron
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 9,077
    Re: Rick Steves & Kotor Bay, note the quote posted by Ianbeetoo, published in Smithsonian Magazine in 2010, is also currently available - without any date - on RS's website under "Rick's Travel Articles"

    Which is NOT same thing as validating him as 100% (or more) responsible for influx of Ugly Americans which for I (as opposed to me) are 100% (or more) of us (also US).

    https://www.ricksteves.com/watch-read-listen/read/tms/montenegros-bay-of-kotor
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 1,737
    edited June 30

    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    There's a lot (and I mean a lot) about the way we have gone about leaving the EU and the post-EU arrangements which in my view which has been stupid, short-sighted or so riddled with arcane notions of sovereignty, "leverage" and seeking dubious advantage as to be borderline malevolent.

    All of that said, we couldn't go on as we were - there were only two credible positions, either we were enthusiastically members which meant adopting the Euro, Schengen and all the rest which we could have done (I'm NOT saying "should") and which in turn would have altered the dynamic of the EU or we stood on the outside wishing it well, looking for a mutually beneficial economic and trading relationship but not getting politically involved.

    Instead, incredibly, we did neither. We embarked on a half-hearted, mean-spirited, penny-pinching, griping, moaning membership - endlessly complaining and rarely, if ever, trying to set the agenda. That was the fault of successive Governments over 50 years - it's little wonder both the British people and the EU got fed up.

    So we're out and we have to make it work and we have to ask the hard questions about our role in the world which we've probably dodged since 1945 (certainly since Suez and arguably fudged during our EU membership).

    While I would not wish the human misery and suffering of the Ukraine on anyone, one by-product has been to re-energise "the West" with a new sense of purpose which arguably it had lacked since the USSR collapsed. It has given the UK a new sense of a role in the western alliance and has re-energised NATO. That said, the world isn't either Europe or NATO and we have to be an economic power in Latin America, the Far East and the Indian Sub-Continent all areas of economic potential and challenge.

    The failure to really flesh out what "Global Britain" means (beyond a cheap slogan) has left the future uncertain - we can't just be a place for the mega-wealthy to buy houses, drive fast cars and shop. Our lot cannot just be a servants of mega-wealth yet the pandemic has also set in train other forces.

    As I argued last night, the pandemic forced some to question the viability of their work-life existence and for them a life without work isn't the nightmare we were conditioned to believe. Indeed, there are those who have moved beyond the old adage of "you work to live, you don't live to work" and especially if materially capable and able have turned their back on the working life in search of something else.

    The post-work world is one which I think will develop and grow in the next few decades as more and more seek a life meaning beyond the "eat, work, sleep, repeat" mantra of past decades.

    I don't remember the EU being especially fed up, and I've always read a lot of Continental papers. Frankly they didn't talk about Britain nearly as much as most people imagine. Even among the leaders, they were used to having members with off-centre views and some - Hungary, Poland - worry them much more than the UK ever did.

    I think we got fed up with ourselves, as you describe, feeling that half-hearted membership was just tiresome. But IMO we could have continued it indefinitely with few serious Continental complaints. It wasn't especially broken, and I think we made a mistake in thinking we had to leave or embrace everything. Muddling through was a perfectly adequate strategy which arguably was acftually our best bet.
    People say that Cameron's renegotiation was terrible, but I don't think it was at all

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/feb/19/camerons-eu-deal-what-he-wanted-and-what-he-got

    "What Cameron wanted: a declaration that the treaty motto of “ever closer union among the peoples of Europe” did not apply to the UK. EU leaders had already agreed a special formula of wording in June 2014 that not all member states were on the road to integration, but Cameron wanted something stronger.

    What he’s got: Much more emphatic language, stressing that the UK is not on the road to deeper integration. “It is recognised that the United Kingdom ... is not committed to further political integration in the European Union ... References to ever-closer union do not apply to the United Kingdom.
    ”"

    This was brilliant. We could have stayed in the EU without joining the Euro or Schengen and rejected anything else that led to "Ever closer union". But we threw it all away.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 52,574
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    CatMan said:

    Leon said:

    Tivat has 3045 annual hours of sunshine. London has about 1600. Paris has about 1800. Rome has 2500. Nice has 2550

    Tivat has 3045

    If you live in the UK, move to Brighton!



    https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/384846730648723868/
    I am mildly obsessed with sunshine hours (as weather affects my mood quite a lot, and I am prone to moods)

    The USA enjoys vastly more sunshine than Europe. It is one of the reasons I used to think about moving there, but not any more, the American negatives now significantly outweigh the positives (for me, personally. as a Brit)

    The ideal one should seek (as a sun lover) is desert-like hours of sunshine but with a fertile and seasonal climate. The eastern Adriatic coast gets quite close to that ideal
    Me too (sun hour obsession) once I realised why British winters got me down. It’s not the cold, it’s the gloom.

    I’m now looking for a place in Europe that near-replicates the climate I grew up with. I think northern Portugal or Galicia.

    Probably rainy, but I don’t mind the rain.

    Not keen on rain either, personally (Why, God, was i born in England???) but I do like green hills and trees, I don’t want a desert

    Northern Portugal is a good bet (and it is still quite cheap, at least inland). Even if global warming spirals out of control Porto and environs will likely remain pleasantly habitable for the rest of your lifetime

    Southern Spain, hmm, not so much

    Portuguese food is a bit rubbish tho, once you get beyond the sardines and the cataplana. Galician food is much more inventive
    The rain gives you the green hills and trees.

  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 34,010
    CatMan said:

    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    There's a lot (and I mean a lot) about the way we have gone about leaving the EU and the post-EU arrangements which in my view which has been stupid, short-sighted or so riddled with arcane notions of sovereignty, "leverage" and seeking dubious advantage as to be borderline malevolent.

    All of that said, we couldn't go on as we were - there were only two credible positions, either we were enthusiastically members which meant adopting the Euro, Schengen and all the rest which we could have done (I'm NOT saying "should") and which in turn would have altered the dynamic of the EU or we stood on the outside wishing it well, looking for a mutually beneficial economic and trading relationship but not getting politically involved.

    Instead, incredibly, we did neither. We embarked on a half-hearted, mean-spirited, penny-pinching, griping, moaning membership - endlessly complaining and rarely, if ever, trying to set the agenda. That was the fault of successive Governments over 50 years - it's little wonder both the British people and the EU got fed up.

    So we're out and we have to make it work and we have to ask the hard questions about our role in the world which we've probably dodged since 1945 (certainly since Suez and arguably fudged during our EU membership).

    While I would not wish the human misery and suffering of the Ukraine on anyone, one by-product has been to re-energise "the West" with a new sense of purpose which arguably it had lacked since the USSR collapsed. It has given the UK a new sense of a role in the western alliance and has re-energised NATO. That said, the world isn't either Europe or NATO and we have to be an economic power in Latin America, the Far East and the Indian Sub-Continent all areas of economic potential and challenge.

    The failure to really flesh out what "Global Britain" means (beyond a cheap slogan) has left the future uncertain - we can't just be a place for the mega-wealthy to buy houses, drive fast cars and shop. Our lot cannot just be a servants of mega-wealth yet the pandemic has also set in train other forces.

    As I argued last night, the pandemic forced some to question the viability of their work-life existence and for them a life without work isn't the nightmare we were conditioned to believe. Indeed, there are those who have moved beyond the old adage of "you work to live, you don't live to work" and especially if materially capable and able have turned their back on the working life in search of something else.

    The post-work world is one which I think will develop and grow in the next few decades as more and more seek a life meaning beyond the "eat, work, sleep, repeat" mantra of past decades.

    I don't remember the EU being especially fed up, and I've always read a lot of Continental papers. Frankly they didn't talk about Britain nearly as much as most people imagine. Even among the leaders, they were used to having members with off-centre views and some - Hungary, Poland - worry them much more than the UK ever did.

    I think we got fed up with ourselves, as you describe, feeling that half-hearted membership was just tiresome. But IMO we could have continued it indefinitely with few serious Continental complaints. It wasn't especially broken, and I think we made a mistake in thinking we had to leave or embrace everything. Muddling through was a perfectly adequate strategy which arguably was acftually our best bet.
    People say that Cameron's renegotiation was terrible, but I don't think it was at all

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/feb/19/camerons-eu-deal-what-he-wanted-and-what-he-got

    "What Cameron wanted: a declaration that the treaty motto of “ever closer union among the peoples of Europe” did not apply to the UK. EU leaders had already agreed a special formula of wording in June 2014 that not all member states were on the road to integration, but Cameron wanted something stronger.

    What he’s got: Much more emphatic language, stressing that the UK is not on the road to deeper integration. “It is recognised that the United Kingdom ... is not committed to further political integration in the European Union ... References to ever-closer union do not apply to the United Kingdom.
    ”"

    This was brilliant. We could have stayed in the EU without joining the Euro or Schengen and rejected anything else that led to "Ever closer union". But we threw it all away.
    Just think of those underpowered vacuum cleaners and it will all become worth it.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 23,828

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    CatMan said:

    Leon said:

    Tivat has 3045 annual hours of sunshine. London has about 1600. Paris has about 1800. Rome has 2500. Nice has 2550

    Tivat has 3045

    If you live in the UK, move to Brighton!



    https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/384846730648723868/
    I am mildly obsessed with sunshine hours (as weather affects my mood quite a lot, and I am prone to moods)

    The USA enjoys vastly more sunshine than Europe. It is one of the reasons I used to think about moving there, but not any more, the American negatives now significantly outweigh the positives (for me, personally. as a Brit)

    The ideal one should seek (as a sun lover) is desert-like hours of sunshine but with a fertile and seasonal climate. The eastern Adriatic coast gets quite close to that ideal
    Me too (sun hour obsession) once I realised why British winters got me down. It’s not the cold, it’s the gloom.

    I’m now looking for a place in Europe that near-replicates the climate I grew up with. I think northern Portugal or Galicia.

    Probably rainy, but I don’t mind the rain.

    Not keen on rain either, personally (Why, God, was i born in England???) but I do like green hills and trees, I don’t want a desert

    Northern Portugal is a good bet (and it is still quite cheap, at least inland). Even if global warming spirals out of control Porto and environs will likely remain pleasantly habitable for the rest of your lifetime

    Southern Spain, hmm, not so much

    Portuguese food is a bit rubbish tho, once you get beyond the sardines and the cataplana. Galician food is much more inventive
    The rain gives you the green hills and trees.

    But you want it concentrated in certain seasons and hopefully in short intense bursts

    What you don’t want is cool drizzly weeks of British summer
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 8,968
    Huh. Looks like Ukraine will be exporting electricity to the EU. Surprised by that. I guess domestic Ukrainian demand for electricity must be way down, but the nuclear power plants are still running.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 23,828

    Re: Rick Steves & Kotor Bay, note the quote posted by Ianbeetoo, published in Smithsonian Magazine in 2010, is also currently available - without any date - on RS's website under "Rick's Travel Articles"

    Which is NOT same thing as validating him as 100% (or more) responsible for influx of Ugly Americans which for I (as opposed to me) are 100% (or more) of us (also US).

    https://www.ricksteves.com/watch-read-listen/read/tms/montenegros-bay-of-kotor

    I’ve checked this now, The Americans in Kotor are nothing to do with Rick Steves

    As you said, it is cruise boats. That is all
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379
    CatMan said:

    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    There's a lot (and I mean a lot) about the way we have gone about leaving the EU and the post-EU arrangements which in my view which has been stupid, short-sighted or so riddled with arcane notions of sovereignty, "leverage" and seeking dubious advantage as to be borderline malevolent.

    All of that said, we couldn't go on as we were - there were only two credible positions, either we were enthusiastically members which meant adopting the Euro, Schengen and all the rest which we could have done (I'm NOT saying "should") and which in turn would have altered the dynamic of the EU or we stood on the outside wishing it well, looking for a mutually beneficial economic and trading relationship but not getting politically involved.

    Instead, incredibly, we did neither. We embarked on a half-hearted, mean-spirited, penny-pinching, griping, moaning membership - endlessly complaining and rarely, if ever, trying to set the agenda. That was the fault of successive Governments over 50 years - it's little wonder both the British people and the EU got fed up.

    So we're out and we have to make it work and we have to ask the hard questions about our role in the world which we've probably dodged since 1945 (certainly since Suez and arguably fudged during our EU membership).

    While I would not wish the human misery and suffering of the Ukraine on anyone, one by-product has been to re-energise "the West" with a new sense of purpose which arguably it had lacked since the USSR collapsed. It has given the UK a new sense of a role in the western alliance and has re-energised NATO. That said, the world isn't either Europe or NATO and we have to be an economic power in Latin America, the Far East and the Indian Sub-Continent all areas of economic potential and challenge.

    The failure to really flesh out what "Global Britain" means (beyond a cheap slogan) has left the future uncertain - we can't just be a place for the mega-wealthy to buy houses, drive fast cars and shop. Our lot cannot just be a servants of mega-wealth yet the pandemic has also set in train other forces.

    As I argued last night, the pandemic forced some to question the viability of their work-life existence and for them a life without work isn't the nightmare we were conditioned to believe. Indeed, there are those who have moved beyond the old adage of "you work to live, you don't live to work" and especially if materially capable and able have turned their back on the working life in search of something else.

    The post-work world is one which I think will develop and grow in the next few decades as more and more seek a life meaning beyond the "eat, work, sleep, repeat" mantra of past decades.

    I don't remember the EU being especially fed up, and I've always read a lot of Continental papers. Frankly they didn't talk about Britain nearly as much as most people imagine. Even among the leaders, they were used to having members with off-centre views and some - Hungary, Poland - worry them much more than the UK ever did.

    I think we got fed up with ourselves, as you describe, feeling that half-hearted membership was just tiresome. But IMO we could have continued it indefinitely with few serious Continental complaints. It wasn't especially broken, and I think we made a mistake in thinking we had to leave or embrace everything. Muddling through was a perfectly adequate strategy which arguably was acftually our best bet.
    People say that Cameron's renegotiation was terrible, but I don't think it was at all

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/feb/19/camerons-eu-deal-what-he-wanted-and-what-he-got

    "What Cameron wanted: a declaration that the treaty motto of “ever closer union among the peoples of Europe” did not apply to the UK. EU leaders had already agreed a special formula of wording in June 2014 that not all member states were on the road to integration, but Cameron wanted something stronger.

    What he’s got: Much more emphatic language, stressing that the UK is not on the road to deeper integration. “It is recognised that the United Kingdom ... is not committed to further political integration in the European Union ... References to ever-closer union do not apply to the United Kingdom.
    ”"

    This was brilliant. We could have stayed in the EU without joining the Euro or Schengen and rejected anything else that led to "Ever closer union". But we threw it all away.
    You believed that?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 52,574
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    CatMan said:

    Leon said:

    Tivat has 3045 annual hours of sunshine. London has about 1600. Paris has about 1800. Rome has 2500. Nice has 2550

    Tivat has 3045

    If you live in the UK, move to Brighton!



    https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/384846730648723868/
    I am mildly obsessed with sunshine hours (as weather affects my mood quite a lot, and I am prone to moods)

    The USA enjoys vastly more sunshine than Europe. It is one of the reasons I used to think about moving there, but not any more, the American negatives now significantly outweigh the positives (for me, personally. as a Brit)

    The ideal one should seek (as a sun lover) is desert-like hours of sunshine but with a fertile and seasonal climate. The eastern Adriatic coast gets quite close to that ideal
    Me too (sun hour obsession) once I realised why British winters got me down. It’s not the cold, it’s the gloom.

    I’m now looking for a place in Europe that near-replicates the climate I grew up with. I think northern Portugal or Galicia.

    Probably rainy, but I don’t mind the rain.

    Not keen on rain either, personally (Why, God, was i born in England???) but I do like green hills and trees, I don’t want a desert

    Northern Portugal is a good bet (and it is still quite cheap, at least inland). Even if global warming spirals out of control Porto and environs will likely remain pleasantly habitable for the rest of your lifetime

    Southern Spain, hmm, not so much

    Portuguese food is a bit rubbish tho, once you get beyond the sardines and the cataplana. Galician food is much more inventive
    The rain gives you the green hills and trees.

    But you want it concentrated in certain seasons and hopefully in short intense bursts

    What you don’t want is cool drizzly weeks of British summer
    Personally i hate heat, or at least humid heat - anything above about 25-28 degrees i hate - so a forecast of a bit of a cool week in mid July is good news for me.

    We are all different.

This discussion has been closed.