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The data the advocates of a “progressive alliance” ignore – politicalbetting.com

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  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 45,003
    Leon said:

    EPG said:

    Leon said:

    EPG said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Anyway my two favourite poems are:

    1. The Owl and the Pussycat, which I used to recite to the children when they were little at bedtime.
    2. An Irish Airman Foresees His Death.

    I know that I shall meet my fate
    Somewhere among the clouds above;
    Those that I fight I do not hate,
    Those that I guard I do not love;
    My country is Kiltartan Cross,
    My countrymen Kiltartan’s poor,
    No likely end could bring them loss
    Or leave them happier than before.
    Nor law, nor duty bade me fight,
    Nor public men, nor cheering crowds,
    A lonely impulse of delight
    Drove to this tumult in the clouds;
    I balanced all, brought all to mind,
    The years to come seemed waste of breath,
    A waste of breath the years behind
    In balance with this life, this death.

    I love the Lake Isle of Innisfree and The Second Coming by him too.

    Andrew Marvell's To His Coy Mistress is a marvel too.

    I love poetry. It's music through words.

    For me, having tried a lot of poetry and now like almost none of it, one of the few I'll still remember and like is his "In Memory of Eva Gore-Booth and Con Markievicz".
    Definite theme here. Remoaners don't like poetry. They are quintessentially middlebrow
    Most poems aren't good, just as most films and paintings and statues aren't good. To think otherwise betrays an epicurean's lack of critical judgement. Albeit, for me, the most is larger than many other people. But the idea that poetry is not middlebrow is puzzling. Poetry is firmly middlebrow.
    Such a middlebrow, bourgeois, Remoanery thing to say
    Says the Byronic epigone. :smile:
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,648
    Have we reached Peter Bone PM yet?
    Thats the natural outflow of this sewage channel of nonsense
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 41,868
    maxh said:

    Sandpit said:

    maxh said:

    OT: After a particularly trying day at school, particularly in relation to students' use of snapchat to bully other students, I am really interested in anyone on here who would defend the current accessibility of smartphones and social media to teenagers.

    If it were up to me, in my current mood, I'd ban any smartphone or social media accounts for anyone under 18. I'm aware that I'm frustrated, and probably not seeing all sides of the debate, so would be really interested in anyone who is prepared to argue in favour of the status quo (kids between the ages of 12 and 18 having smartphones and social media accounts).

    As an aside, I am not normally in favour of state interference in the private lives of citizens, including kids, and would very much like this to be an issue that parents were empowered to take action on themselves. But I egularly speak to parents who feel powerless to do anything other than follow the crowd by giving kids smartphones, to avoid the kid being excluded from friendship circles.

    You’re completely right, schools need to step in and ban smartphones, and social media companies need to stop people under 16 from signing up.

    Here’s psycology professor Jonathan Haidt, discussing this very issue. The social media business model of creating ‘engagement’ for advertisers is fundamentally incompatible with teenagers’ developing brains.
    https://youtube.com/watch?v=f0un-l1L8Zw#
    Thanks for the reply.
    The problem is, schools banning smartphones only works in school (I know, we have done it, to the immense relief of most of the students). It just transfers the problem out of the school gates. The worst is the kid at home alone at night reading stuff about them, which regularly happens. Parents can of course regulate some of this - but imo its not enough.
    Yes, parents need to be involved, and sadly many of them don’t understand nor care particularly, until their child is affected by problems of bullying or internet adddiction. Modern smartphones have good parental controls if set up properly, so the kids can have them for an hour or two in the evening, but not at night or at school.

    The issue of kids signing up to social media accounts is probably going to have to be by legislation, because Facebook and TikTok won’t be doing it voluntarily. There’s a bi-partisan movement in the US pushing for this, led by academic research and psychologists such as Prof Haidt, it would be good to see a similar movement elsewhere.

    (I’m an IT professional who has presented to parents and pupils on this subject).
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 48,109

    Ben Wallace is on manoeuvres.

    Exclusive: Defence Secretary Ben Wallace has formally written to the PM to ask for the UK’s defence budget to be permanently increased to 2.5% of GDP - an extra 20% or £10bn a year - by 2028 because of the threat from a resurgent Russia, @TheNewsDesk can reveal.

    Ben Wallace has also pressed Boris Johnson to use the Madrid summit of NATO leaders tomorrow to show leadership on the international stage and call on the whole of the alliance to increase its minimum spend per country to 2.5 of GDP.

    In the letter and subsequent conversations with No10, Mr Wallace has highlighted alarming shortfalls in the UK’s military capabilities that the Ukraine conflict has exposed. They include not enough deep strike weapons, such as long range rockets…

    I agree with him, but something has got to give and it won't be the NHS, social care and pensions
    Indeed and I fear the plans to increase NATO RRF forces 40,000 to 300,000 is like my plans to marry Scarlett Johansson, unrealistic.
    I wonder if someone has misread a press release somewhere. Particularly since it also talks about increasing deployments only to brigade strength in several new locations in Eastern Europe.

    To have well over a quarter of a million men as a rapid reaction force - rather than total alloted NATO forces - would mean a mobilisation equal to or surpassing the peak of the Cold War.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 6,547
    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    EPG said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Anyway my two favourite poems are:

    1. The Owl and the Pussycat, which I used to recite to the children when they were little at bedtime.
    2. An Irish Airman Foresees His Death.

    I know that I shall meet my fate
    Somewhere among the clouds above;
    Those that I fight I do not hate,
    Those that I guard I do not love;
    My country is Kiltartan Cross,
    My countrymen Kiltartan’s poor,
    No likely end could bring them loss
    Or leave them happier than before.
    Nor law, nor duty bade me fight,
    Nor public men, nor cheering crowds,
    A lonely impulse of delight
    Drove to this tumult in the clouds;
    I balanced all, brought all to mind,
    The years to come seemed waste of breath,
    A waste of breath the years behind
    In balance with this life, this death.

    I love the Lake Isle of Innisfree and The Second Coming by him too.

    Andrew Marvell's To His Coy Mistress is a marvel too.

    I love poetry. It's music through words.

    For me, having tried a lot of poetry and now like almost none of it, one of the few I'll still remember and like is his "In Memory of Eva Gore-Booth and Con Markievicz".
    Definite theme here. Remoaners don't like poetry. They are quintessentially middlebrow
    Leon said:

    EPG said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Anyway my two favourite poems are:

    1. The Owl and the Pussycat, which I used to recite to the children when they were little at bedtime.
    2. An Irish Airman Foresees His Death.

    I know that I shall meet my fate
    Somewhere among the clouds above;
    Those that I fight I do not hate,
    Those that I guard I do not love;
    My country is Kiltartan Cross,
    My countrymen Kiltartan’s poor,
    No likely end could bring them loss
    Or leave them happier than before.
    Nor law, nor duty bade me fight,
    Nor public men, nor cheering crowds,
    A lonely impulse of delight
    Drove to this tumult in the clouds;
    I balanced all, brought all to mind,
    The years to come seemed waste of breath,
    A waste of breath the years behind
    In balance with this life, this death.

    I love the Lake Isle of Innisfree and The Second Coming by him too.

    Andrew Marvell's To His Coy Mistress is a marvel too.

    I love poetry. It's music through words.

    For me, having tried a lot of poetry and now like almost none of it, one of the few I'll still remember and like is his "In Memory of Eva Gore-Booth and Con Markievicz".
    Definite theme here. Remoaners don't like poetry. They are quintessentially middlebrow
    Like you I love This Be The Verse. The only poem I can quote from memory. Good job it’s short.

    I’m not a huge fan of poetry but I do have a soft spot for Charles Bukowski. I like his prose too:

    "There's nothing to mourn about death any more than there is to mourn about the growing of a flower. What is terrible is not death but the lives people live or don't live up until their death. They don't honor their own lives, they piss on their lives. They shit them away. Dumb fuckers. They concentrate too much on fucking, movies, money, family, fucking. Their minds are full of cotton. They swallow God without thinking, they swallow country without thinking. Soon they forget how to think, they let others think for them. Their brains are stuffed with cotton. They look ugly, they talk ugly, they walk ugly. Play them the great music of the centuries and they can't hear it. Most people's deaths are a sham. There's nothing left to die."

    Sounds a miserable, judgey fncker to me.
    Agree. There's something a bit odd about folks who are so sure that all the others are a waste of space, and seem so certain they themselves are the glorious exception. It has the sound of someone who hasn't really paid attention but thinks he has.

  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 48,109
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    EPG said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Anyway my two favourite poems are:

    1. The Owl and the Pussycat, which I used to recite to the children when they were little at bedtime.
    2. An Irish Airman Foresees His Death.

    I know that I shall meet my fate
    Somewhere among the clouds above;
    Those that I fight I do not hate,
    Those that I guard I do not love;
    My country is Kiltartan Cross,
    My countrymen Kiltartan’s poor,
    No likely end could bring them loss
    Or leave them happier than before.
    Nor law, nor duty bade me fight,
    Nor public men, nor cheering crowds,
    A lonely impulse of delight
    Drove to this tumult in the clouds;
    I balanced all, brought all to mind,
    The years to come seemed waste of breath,
    A waste of breath the years behind
    In balance with this life, this death.

    I love the Lake Isle of Innisfree and The Second Coming by him too.

    Andrew Marvell's To His Coy Mistress is a marvel too.

    I love poetry. It's music through words.

    For me, having tried a lot of poetry and now like almost none of it, one of the few I'll still remember and like is his "In Memory of Eva Gore-Booth and Con Markievicz".
    Definite theme here. Remoaners don't like poetry. They are quintessentially middlebrow
    Leon said:

    EPG said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Anyway my two favourite poems are:

    1. The Owl and the Pussycat, which I used to recite to the children when they were little at bedtime.
    2. An Irish Airman Foresees His Death.

    I know that I shall meet my fate
    Somewhere among the clouds above;
    Those that I fight I do not hate,
    Those that I guard I do not love;
    My country is Kiltartan Cross,
    My countrymen Kiltartan’s poor,
    No likely end could bring them loss
    Or leave them happier than before.
    Nor law, nor duty bade me fight,
    Nor public men, nor cheering crowds,
    A lonely impulse of delight
    Drove to this tumult in the clouds;
    I balanced all, brought all to mind,
    The years to come seemed waste of breath,
    A waste of breath the years behind
    In balance with this life, this death.

    I love the Lake Isle of Innisfree and The Second Coming by him too.

    Andrew Marvell's To His Coy Mistress is a marvel too.

    I love poetry. It's music through words.

    For me, having tried a lot of poetry and now like almost none of it, one of the few I'll still remember and like is his "In Memory of Eva Gore-Booth and Con Markievicz".
    Definite theme here. Remoaners don't like poetry. They are quintessentially middlebrow
    Like you I love This Be The Verse. The only poem I can quote from memory. Good job it’s short.

    I’m not a huge fan of poetry but I do have a soft spot for Charles Bukowski. I like his prose too:

    "There's nothing to mourn about death any more than there is to mourn about the growing of a flower. What is terrible is not death but the lives people live or don't live up until their death. They don't honor their own lives, they piss on their lives. They shit them away. Dumb fuckers. They concentrate too much on fucking, movies, money, family, fucking. Their minds are full of cotton. They swallow God without thinking, they swallow country without thinking. Soon they forget how to think, they let others think for them. Their brains are stuffed with cotton. They look ugly, they talk ugly, they walk ugly. Play them the great music of the centuries and they can't hear it. Most people's deaths are a sham. There's nothing left to die."

    Hmmm, I'm not sure many of us will - on our death beds - think "damn, I wish I hadn't had so much sex"
    Depends who it's with.
  • northern_monkeynorthern_monkey Posts: 1,145
    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    EPG said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Anyway my two favourite poems are:

    1. The Owl and the Pussycat, which I used to recite to the children when they were little at bedtime.
    2. An Irish Airman Foresees His Death.

    I know that I shall meet my fate
    Somewhere among the clouds above;
    Those that I fight I do not hate,
    Those that I guard I do not love;
    My country is Kiltartan Cross,
    My countrymen Kiltartan’s poor,
    No likely end could bring them loss
    Or leave them happier than before.
    Nor law, nor duty bade me fight,
    Nor public men, nor cheering crowds,
    A lonely impulse of delight
    Drove to this tumult in the clouds;
    I balanced all, brought all to mind,
    The years to come seemed waste of breath,
    A waste of breath the years behind
    In balance with this life, this death.

    I love the Lake Isle of Innisfree and The Second Coming by him too.

    Andrew Marvell's To His Coy Mistress is a marvel too.

    I love poetry. It's music through words.

    For me, having tried a lot of poetry and now like almost none of it, one of the few I'll still remember and like is his "In Memory of Eva Gore-Booth and Con Markievicz".
    Definite theme here. Remoaners don't like poetry. They are quintessentially middlebrow
    Leon said:

    EPG said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Anyway my two favourite poems are:

    1. The Owl and the Pussycat, which I used to recite to the children when they were little at bedtime.
    2. An Irish Airman Foresees His Death.

    I know that I shall meet my fate
    Somewhere among the clouds above;
    Those that I fight I do not hate,
    Those that I guard I do not love;
    My country is Kiltartan Cross,
    My countrymen Kiltartan’s poor,
    No likely end could bring them loss
    Or leave them happier than before.
    Nor law, nor duty bade me fight,
    Nor public men, nor cheering crowds,
    A lonely impulse of delight
    Drove to this tumult in the clouds;
    I balanced all, brought all to mind,
    The years to come seemed waste of breath,
    A waste of breath the years behind
    In balance with this life, this death.

    I love the Lake Isle of Innisfree and The Second Coming by him too.

    Andrew Marvell's To His Coy Mistress is a marvel too.

    I love poetry. It's music through words.

    For me, having tried a lot of poetry and now like almost none of it, one of the few I'll still remember and like is his "In Memory of Eva Gore-Booth and Con Markievicz".
    Definite theme here. Remoaners don't like poetry. They are quintessentially middlebrow
    Like you I love This Be The Verse. The only poem I can quote from memory. Good job it’s short.

    I’m not a huge fan of poetry but I do have a soft spot for Charles Bukowski. I like his prose too:

    "There's nothing to mourn about death any more than there is to mourn about the growing of a flower. What is terrible is not death but the lives people live or don't live up until their death. They don't honor their own lives, they piss on their lives. They shit them away. Dumb fuckers. They concentrate too much on fucking, movies, money, family, fucking. Their minds are full of cotton. They swallow God without thinking, they swallow country without thinking. Soon they forget how to think, they let others think for them. Their brains are stuffed with cotton. They look ugly, they talk ugly, they walk ugly. Play them the great music of the centuries and they can't hear it. Most people's deaths are a sham. There's nothing left to die."

    Sounds a miserable, judgey fncker to me.
    He certainly was quite a character. Definitely a misanthrope. One for the angry disaffected young men. As I was when I was introduced to him. By an angry disaffected young man.

    He lived a life though, Bukowski, I’ll give him that.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 35,453

    Ben Wallace is on manoeuvres.

    Exclusive: Defence Secretary Ben Wallace has formally written to the PM to ask for the UK’s defence budget to be permanently increased to 2.5% of GDP - an extra 20% or £10bn a year - by 2028 because of the threat from a resurgent Russia, @TheNewsDesk can reveal.

    Ben Wallace has also pressed Boris Johnson to use the Madrid summit of NATO leaders tomorrow to show leadership on the international stage and call on the whole of the alliance to increase its minimum spend per country to 2.5 of GDP.

    In the letter and subsequent conversations with No10, Mr Wallace has highlighted alarming shortfalls in the UK’s military capabilities that the Ukraine conflict has exposed. They include not enough deep strike weapons, such as long range rockets…

    Wallace is absolutely right.

    Europe and UK needs to rearm as a matter of extreme urgency.

    This is 1930s again. Here, now. Clear and present danger whilst Putin and his mad, neo-russian-empire chums are in power.
    I am not convinced we do need to re-arm, and certainly wouldn't do so until the lessons of recent wars are clear, including the current Ukraine one. The Russian Army is being heavily depleted and much of its equipment found wanting, on land sea and air.

    Restocking ammo passed on certainly, but the rest requires thought.
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 1,811
    Leon said:

    Applicant said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    I for one am glad Scott_xP puts up the tweets. Obviously helps that I agree with the points he’s making, whether he is using his own words or someone else’s. We need to hear it. Because Brexit has had a massively negative impact, and will continue to do so, until we accept that and start to try and resolve it (and not by unilaterally breaking treaties we have signed). And we’re far from that point. But we’re getting there slowly.

    Stick your fingers in your ears, have a pop at Scott_xP, scroll past his posts without reading them, do whatever you feel. It won’t change the fact that gradually, steadily, inexorably, the country is realising it has been conned.

    I've felt like the country has been conned for six years. These Tweets are available on Twitter. I don't come here for syndicated Tweets. I go to Twitter for tweets. They're counterproductive because, amazingly, the poster on here who gets me most wound up about Brexit is a fellow Remainer.
    I get that. I still think it needs hammering home. Not everyone goes on Twitter.

    And even if you do, it is extremely easy to get stuck in your own Twitter circle jerk, only hearing voices you agree with. It’s Twitter’s biggest fault.

    It is good, IMHO, to have Scott’s reportage. Many will find it uncomfortable, or, like you, irritating. I still think he does a valuable service posting in the way he does.

    It's not fucking "reportage". @Scott_xP is not on the front line of Brexit, with the shrapnel of the NI Protocol whistling past his ears. It is retweeting

    The main emotion it evokes is pity for him. And intense boredom. Is that what he wants? Fair enough, but it does not adorn the site nor does it advance his cause
    I think we’re all on the front line of Brexit!

    Bless him, he’s in the digital trenches, a plucky runner risking life and limb - and perhaps sanity - to bring us, the armchair generals, blood flecked dispatches full of tales of pettifogging bureaucracy, tumbling exports and frustrated holiday makers, ruefully eyeing the EU gates.
    Mute button? Man's won the FBPE VC many times over. Remember those times he posted stuff slightly too uncooked, got a pasting, but still went over the top again.

    That's how you win wars.
    If Brexit was a war, Scotty is Hiroo Onoda.
    There’s no reason for that sort of language on here 😠.

    I think you all get too worked up by Brexit on PB. My humble view is the difference between being in and out is out now we will get a bit economically worse off in coming years, less growth, less jobs, less investment in UK - but not to some huge dramatic degree that justifies all this fuss. Even a bit financially poorer, we will still be here, there will always be an England.

    Some of you act like it wasn’t democratic or won on a fistful of lies. But you will never have evidence that’s true, so you should be polite and not mention what you can’t prove.
    We know it was won on lies - some of the leading figures in "Leave" openly said so

    https://politicsandinsights.org/2017/10/27/leave-director-admitted-the-brexit-referendum-was-won-by-lying-to-the-public/

    There are others. Thirty seconds use of Google Search will turn up plenty of references
    It was won because reman failed to make a case and Obama comments of UK at the back of the queue annoyed a lot of people

    Lies or otherwise it was a failure by the remain camp to win their case which should have been a walk in the park
    Obama was absolutely correct in what he said. Leavers didn't like it because he was a part-Kenyan getting above his station.
    I would just say I thought it was a stupid thing to say and I supported remain
    Not least, because an American like Obama would obviously say “line” not “queue”. He was given a script. Cameron is such a twat
    This is such a stupid pointless thing to discuss, but what the hey...

    It probably was written by Cameron, but Obama didn't change it to "line", maybe because acording to Wikipedia (yeah I know), "queue" actually is an American English word (although in perhaps a different context)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_words_having_different_meanings_in_American_and_British_English_(M–Z)#Q
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 27,914
    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    They loved their old Mom and never hurt anyone other than villains, cor, luv a duck, me ole cook Sparra.

    When I were a young lad I was shocked, genuinely shocked about Robert Boothby and Ronnie Kray, then even more open mouthed when I learned where else Boothby had spread his demon seed.
    His story of when he met Hitler was amusing. It’s still on YouTube somewhere. I dread to think where else he spread his seed.

    The BBC TV series The Long Firm had a character player by Derek Jacobi based on Boothby. Very good it was too.
    Talking about spreading seed, I have just finished a memoir by Charles Allan - The truth tells twice. Nice picture of farming life in Boothby's constituency.

    There's a nice story especially for @RochdalePioneers in it. Allan's father was the opposing Labour candidate to Boothby, up in Aberdeenshire/Kincardine E. Dad thought, not a chance, Boothby would win, he was just doing to make sure Labour had a showing. But it was the 1945 election. He was horrifed to find himself leading very dramatically when the count began, but it turned out that they'd started with the Fraserburgh and Peterhead boxes, and things soon reversed with the boxes of the more distant and rural areas. Very glad to escape back to his farm after all.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 41,868
    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    I for one am glad Scott_xP puts up the tweets. Obviously helps that I agree with the points he’s making, whether he is using his own words or someone else’s. We need to hear it. Because Brexit has had a massively negative impact, and will continue to do so, until we accept that and start to try and resolve it (and not by unilaterally breaking treaties we have signed). And we’re far from that point. But we’re getting there slowly.

    Stick your fingers in your ears, have a pop at Scott_xP, scroll past his posts without reading them, do whatever you feel. It won’t change the fact that gradually, steadily, inexorably, the country is realising it has been conned.

    I've felt like the country has been conned for six years. These Tweets are available on Twitter. I don't come here for syndicated Tweets. I go to Twitter for tweets. They're counterproductive because, amazingly, the poster on here who gets me most wound up about Brexit is a fellow Remainer.
    I get that. I still think it needs hammering home. Not everyone goes on Twitter.

    And even if you do, it is extremely easy to get stuck in your own Twitter circle jerk, only hearing voices you agree with. It’s Twitter’s biggest fault.

    It is good, IMHO, to have Scott’s reportage. Many will find it uncomfortable, or, like you, irritating. I still think he does a valuable service posting in the way he does.

    It's not fucking "reportage". @Scott_xP is not on the front line of Brexit, with the shrapnel of the NI Protocol whistling past his ears. It is retweeting

    The main emotion it evokes is pity for him. And intense boredom. Is that what he wants? Fair enough, but it does not adorn the site nor does it advance his cause
    I think we’re all on the front line of Brexit!

    Bless him, he’s in the digital trenches, a plucky runner risking life and limb - and perhaps sanity - to bring us, the armchair generals, blood flecked dispatches full of tales of pettifogging bureaucracy, tumbling exports and frustrated holiday makers, ruefully eyeing the EU gates.
    Mute button? Man's won the FBPE VC many times over. Remember those times he posted stuff slightly too uncooked, got a pasting, but still went over the top again.

    That's how you win wars.
    If Brexit was a war, Scotty is Hiroo Onoda.
    There’s no reason for that sort of language on here 😠.

    I think you all get too worked up by Brexit on PB. My humble view is the difference between being in and out is out now we will get a bit economically worse off in coming years, less growth, less jobs, less investment in UK - but not to some huge dramatic degree that justifies all this fuss. Even a bit financially poorer, we will still be here, there will always be an England.

    Some of you act like it wasn’t democratic or won on a fistful of lies. But you will never have evidence that’s true, so you should be polite and not mention what you can’t prove.
    We know it was won on lies - some of the leading figures in "Leave" openly said so

    https://politicsandinsights.org/2017/10/27/leave-director-admitted-the-brexit-referendum-was-won-by-lying-to-the-public/

    There are others. Thirty seconds use of Google Search will turn up plenty of references
    It was won because reman failed to make a case and Obama comments of UK at the back of the queue annoyed a lot of people

    Lies or otherwise it was a failure by the remain camp to win their case which should have been a walk in the park
    Obama was absolutely correct in what he said. Leavers didn't like it because he was a part-Kenyan getting above his station.
    Bollocks.

    Leavers took the piss because it was so obviously written for him by one of Cameron's team.
    No American would say “back of the queue”, it would have been “back of the line”. The speech must have been written or edited by someone British.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 17,403
    Any American celebs who haven't had an abortion? They're queuing up....
  • NorthofStokeNorthofStoke Posts: 1,758

    Well now.

    And as Tory MPs look increasingly over Boris Johnson's shoulder, some are now talking up @grantshapps as their next leader.

    Tonight's #WaughOnPolitics is in your inbox


    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1541489755782844419

    They may be exaggerating the numbers? There is probably one, G. Shapps M.P.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 55,093

    Well now.

    And as Tory MPs look increasingly over Boris Johnson's shoulder, some are now talking up @grantshapps as their next leader.

    Tonight's #WaughOnPolitics is in your inbox


    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1541489755782844419

    Bored journalist. 'Who has not had a piece done on them as next PM?'
    'Shapps'
    'Fuck, really? Oh well, i'll give it a go'
    This is the bit of the script where they bring in Claire Ballentine for a chat about running for leader I think.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 104,437

    Ben Wallace is on manoeuvres.

    Exclusive: Defence Secretary Ben Wallace has formally written to the PM to ask for the UK’s defence budget to be permanently increased to 2.5% of GDP - an extra 20% or £10bn a year - by 2028 because of the threat from a resurgent Russia, @TheNewsDesk can reveal.

    Ben Wallace has also pressed Boris Johnson to use the Madrid summit of NATO leaders tomorrow to show leadership on the international stage and call on the whole of the alliance to increase its minimum spend per country to 2.5 of GDP.

    In the letter and subsequent conversations with No10, Mr Wallace has highlighted alarming shortfalls in the UK’s military capabilities that the Ukraine conflict has exposed. They include not enough deep strike weapons, such as long range rockets…

    I agree with him, but something has got to give and it won't be the NHS, social care and pensions
    Indeed and I fear the plans to increase NATO RRF forces 40,000 to 300,000 is like my plans to marry Scarlett Johansson, unrealistic.
    I wonder if someone has misread a press release somewhere. Particularly since it also talks about increasing deployments only to brigade strength in several new locations in Eastern Europe.

    To have well over a quarter of a million men as a rapid reaction force - rather than total alloted NATO forces - would mean a mobilisation equal to or surpassing the peak of the Cold War.
    Yup, we ain't having that kind of RRF unless the USA sends the whole of the XVIII Airborne Corps to Europe.

    This is why it is crucial Trump loses in 2024, we're not going to have enough trained men ready.

    I feel like Churchill in the 1930s.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 27,914
    Sandpit said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    I for one am glad Scott_xP puts up the tweets. Obviously helps that I agree with the points he’s making, whether he is using his own words or someone else’s. We need to hear it. Because Brexit has had a massively negative impact, and will continue to do so, until we accept that and start to try and resolve it (and not by unilaterally breaking treaties we have signed). And we’re far from that point. But we’re getting there slowly.

    Stick your fingers in your ears, have a pop at Scott_xP, scroll past his posts without reading them, do whatever you feel. It won’t change the fact that gradually, steadily, inexorably, the country is realising it has been conned.

    I've felt like the country has been conned for six years. These Tweets are available on Twitter. I don't come here for syndicated Tweets. I go to Twitter for tweets. They're counterproductive because, amazingly, the poster on here who gets me most wound up about Brexit is a fellow Remainer.
    I get that. I still think it needs hammering home. Not everyone goes on Twitter.

    And even if you do, it is extremely easy to get stuck in your own Twitter circle jerk, only hearing voices you agree with. It’s Twitter’s biggest fault.

    It is good, IMHO, to have Scott’s reportage. Many will find it uncomfortable, or, like you, irritating. I still think he does a valuable service posting in the way he does.

    It's not fucking "reportage". @Scott_xP is not on the front line of Brexit, with the shrapnel of the NI Protocol whistling past his ears. It is retweeting

    The main emotion it evokes is pity for him. And intense boredom. Is that what he wants? Fair enough, but it does not adorn the site nor does it advance his cause
    I think we’re all on the front line of Brexit!

    Bless him, he’s in the digital trenches, a plucky runner risking life and limb - and perhaps sanity - to bring us, the armchair generals, blood flecked dispatches full of tales of pettifogging bureaucracy, tumbling exports and frustrated holiday makers, ruefully eyeing the EU gates.
    Mute button? Man's won the FBPE VC many times over. Remember those times he posted stuff slightly too uncooked, got a pasting, but still went over the top again.

    That's how you win wars.
    If Brexit was a war, Scotty is Hiroo Onoda.
    There’s no reason for that sort of language on here 😠.

    I think you all get too worked up by Brexit on PB. My humble view is the difference between being in and out is out now we will get a bit economically worse off in coming years, less growth, less jobs, less investment in UK - but not to some huge dramatic degree that justifies all this fuss. Even a bit financially poorer, we will still be here, there will always be an England.

    Some of you act like it wasn’t democratic or won on a fistful of lies. But you will never have evidence that’s true, so you should be polite and not mention what you can’t prove.
    We know it was won on lies - some of the leading figures in "Leave" openly said so

    https://politicsandinsights.org/2017/10/27/leave-director-admitted-the-brexit-referendum-was-won-by-lying-to-the-public/

    There are others. Thirty seconds use of Google Search will turn up plenty of references
    It was won because reman failed to make a case and Obama comments of UK at the back of the queue annoyed a lot of people

    Lies or otherwise it was a failure by the remain camp to win their case which should have been a walk in the park
    Obama was absolutely correct in what he said. Leavers didn't like it because he was a part-Kenyan getting above his station.
    Bollocks.

    Leavers took the piss because it was so obviously written for him by one of Cameron's team.
    No American would say “back of the queue”, it would have been “back of the line”. The speech must have been written or edited by someone British.
    Not convinced. It's possible to be aware of obvious linguistic issues and allow for them. Knocking up is an expression I'd not use in a conference in the States, for instance.

    In any case, doesn't; justify lying on the other side.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 48,109
    Leon said:

    Applicant said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    I for one am glad Scott_xP puts up the tweets. Obviously helps that I agree with the points he’s making, whether he is using his own words or someone else’s. We need to hear it. Because Brexit has had a massively negative impact, and will continue to do so, until we accept that and start to try and resolve it (and not by unilaterally breaking treaties we have signed). And we’re far from that point. But we’re getting there slowly.

    Stick your fingers in your ears, have a pop at Scott_xP, scroll past his posts without reading them, do whatever you feel. It won’t change the fact that gradually, steadily, inexorably, the country is realising it has been conned.

    I've felt like the country has been conned for six years. These Tweets are available on Twitter. I don't come here for syndicated Tweets. I go to Twitter for tweets. They're counterproductive because, amazingly, the poster on here who gets me most wound up about Brexit is a fellow Remainer.
    I get that. I still think it needs hammering home. Not everyone goes on Twitter.

    And even if you do, it is extremely easy to get stuck in your own Twitter circle jerk, only hearing voices you agree with. It’s Twitter’s biggest fault.

    It is good, IMHO, to have Scott’s reportage. Many will find it uncomfortable, or, like you, irritating. I still think he does a valuable service posting in the way he does.

    It's not fucking "reportage". @Scott_xP is not on the front line of Brexit, with the shrapnel of the NI Protocol whistling past his ears. It is retweeting

    The main emotion it evokes is pity for him. And intense boredom. Is that what he wants? Fair enough, but it does not adorn the site nor does it advance his cause
    I think we’re all on the front line of Brexit!

    Bless him, he’s in the digital trenches, a plucky runner risking life and limb - and perhaps sanity - to bring us, the armchair generals, blood flecked dispatches full of tales of pettifogging bureaucracy, tumbling exports and frustrated holiday makers, ruefully eyeing the EU gates.
    Mute button? Man's won the FBPE VC many times over. Remember those times he posted stuff slightly too uncooked, got a pasting, but still went over the top again.

    That's how you win wars.
    If Brexit was a war, Scotty is Hiroo Onoda.
    There’s no reason for that sort of language on here 😠.

    I think you all get too worked up by Brexit on PB. My humble view is the difference between being in and out is out now we will get a bit economically worse off in coming years, less growth, less jobs, less investment in UK - but not to some huge dramatic degree that justifies all this fuss. Even a bit financially poorer, we will still be here, there will always be an England.

    Some of you act like it wasn’t democratic or won on a fistful of lies. But you will never have evidence that’s true, so you should be polite and not mention what you can’t prove.
    We know it was won on lies - some of the leading figures in "Leave" openly said so

    https://politicsandinsights.org/2017/10/27/leave-director-admitted-the-brexit-referendum-was-won-by-lying-to-the-public/

    There are others. Thirty seconds use of Google Search will turn up plenty of references
    It was won because reman failed to make a case and Obama comments of UK at the back of the queue annoyed a lot of people

    Lies or otherwise it was a failure by the remain camp to win their case which should have been a walk in the park
    Obama was absolutely correct in what he said. Leavers didn't like it because he was a part-Kenyan getting above his station.
    I would just say I thought it was a stupid thing to say and I supported remain
    Not least, because an American like Obama would obviously say “line” not “queue”. He was given a script. Cameron is such a twat
    I know at least two professionals who moved off the fence to Leave after that speech.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 2,721
    Foxy said:

    Ben Wallace is on manoeuvres.

    Exclusive: Defence Secretary Ben Wallace has formally written to the PM to ask for the UK’s defence budget to be permanently increased to 2.5% of GDP - an extra 20% or £10bn a year - by 2028 because of the threat from a resurgent Russia, @TheNewsDesk can reveal.

    Ben Wallace has also pressed Boris Johnson to use the Madrid summit of NATO leaders tomorrow to show leadership on the international stage and call on the whole of the alliance to increase its minimum spend per country to 2.5 of GDP.

    In the letter and subsequent conversations with No10, Mr Wallace has highlighted alarming shortfalls in the UK’s military capabilities that the Ukraine conflict has exposed. They include not enough deep strike weapons, such as long range rockets…

    Wallace is absolutely right.

    Europe and UK needs to rearm as a matter of extreme urgency.

    This is 1930s again. Here, now. Clear and present danger whilst Putin and his mad, neo-russian-empire chums are in power.
    I am not convinced we do need to re-arm, and certainly wouldn't do so until the lessons of recent wars are clear, including the current Ukraine one. The Russian Army is being heavily depleted and much of its equipment found wanting, on land sea and air.

    Restocking ammo passed on certainly, but the rest requires thought.
    The lesson of Ukraine so far seems to be that we need to arm and train the countries of Eastern Europe to the teeth (or rather, help them to rearm themselves). And keep our intelligence capabilities as top notch as possible.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 28,565
    algarkirk said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    EPG said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Anyway my two favourite poems are:

    1. The Owl and the Pussycat, which I used to recite to the children when they were little at bedtime.
    2. An Irish Airman Foresees His Death.

    I know that I shall meet my fate
    Somewhere among the clouds above;
    Those that I fight I do not hate,
    Those that I guard I do not love;
    My country is Kiltartan Cross,
    My countrymen Kiltartan’s poor,
    No likely end could bring them loss
    Or leave them happier than before.
    Nor law, nor duty bade me fight,
    Nor public men, nor cheering crowds,
    A lonely impulse of delight
    Drove to this tumult in the clouds;
    I balanced all, brought all to mind,
    The years to come seemed waste of breath,
    A waste of breath the years behind
    In balance with this life, this death.

    I love the Lake Isle of Innisfree and The Second Coming by him too.

    Andrew Marvell's To His Coy Mistress is a marvel too.

    I love poetry. It's music through words.

    For me, having tried a lot of poetry and now like almost none of it, one of the few I'll still remember and like is his "In Memory of Eva Gore-Booth and Con Markievicz".
    Definite theme here. Remoaners don't like poetry. They are quintessentially middlebrow
    Leon said:

    EPG said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Anyway my two favourite poems are:

    1. The Owl and the Pussycat, which I used to recite to the children when they were little at bedtime.
    2. An Irish Airman Foresees His Death.

    I know that I shall meet my fate
    Somewhere among the clouds above;
    Those that I fight I do not hate,
    Those that I guard I do not love;
    My country is Kiltartan Cross,
    My countrymen Kiltartan’s poor,
    No likely end could bring them loss
    Or leave them happier than before.
    Nor law, nor duty bade me fight,
    Nor public men, nor cheering crowds,
    A lonely impulse of delight
    Drove to this tumult in the clouds;
    I balanced all, brought all to mind,
    The years to come seemed waste of breath,
    A waste of breath the years behind
    In balance with this life, this death.

    I love the Lake Isle of Innisfree and The Second Coming by him too.

    Andrew Marvell's To His Coy Mistress is a marvel too.

    I love poetry. It's music through words.

    For me, having tried a lot of poetry and now like almost none of it, one of the few I'll still remember and like is his "In Memory of Eva Gore-Booth and Con Markievicz".
    Definite theme here. Remoaners don't like poetry. They are quintessentially middlebrow
    Like you I love This Be The Verse. The only poem I can quote from memory. Good job it’s short.

    I’m not a huge fan of poetry but I do have a soft spot for Charles Bukowski. I like his prose too:

    "There's nothing to mourn about death any more than there is to mourn about the growing of a flower. What is terrible is not death but the lives people live or don't live up until their death. They don't honor their own lives, they piss on their lives. They shit them away. Dumb fuckers. They concentrate too much on fucking, movies, money, family, fucking. Their minds are full of cotton. They swallow God without thinking, they swallow country without thinking. Soon they forget how to think, they let others think for them. Their brains are stuffed with cotton. They look ugly, they talk ugly, they walk ugly. Play them the great music of the centuries and they can't hear it. Most people's deaths are a sham. There's nothing left to die."

    Sounds a miserable, judgey fncker to me.
    Agree. There's something a bit odd about folks who are so sure that all the others are a waste of space, and seem so certain they themselves are the glorious exception. It has the sound of someone who hasn't really paid attention but thinks he has.

    And yet I read Bukowski’s memoir about a month ago. Ham on Rye

    It’s really really good. Still funny after all these years

    He’s not judgmental. He just doesn’t like bullshit. He was also a functional alcoholic so he has that in his favour as well
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 48,109

    Ben Wallace is on manoeuvres.

    Exclusive: Defence Secretary Ben Wallace has formally written to the PM to ask for the UK’s defence budget to be permanently increased to 2.5% of GDP - an extra 20% or £10bn a year - by 2028 because of the threat from a resurgent Russia, @TheNewsDesk can reveal.

    Ben Wallace has also pressed Boris Johnson to use the Madrid summit of NATO leaders tomorrow to show leadership on the international stage and call on the whole of the alliance to increase its minimum spend per country to 2.5 of GDP.

    In the letter and subsequent conversations with No10, Mr Wallace has highlighted alarming shortfalls in the UK’s military capabilities that the Ukraine conflict has exposed. They include not enough deep strike weapons, such as long range rockets…

    I agree with him, but something has got to give and it won't be the NHS, social care and pensions
    Indeed and I fear the plans to increase NATO RRF forces 40,000 to 300,000 is like my plans to marry Scarlett Johansson, unrealistic.
    I wonder if someone has misread a press release somewhere. Particularly since it also talks about increasing deployments only to brigade strength in several new locations in Eastern Europe.

    To have well over a quarter of a million men as a rapid reaction force - rather than total alloted NATO forces - would mean a mobilisation equal to or surpassing the peak of the Cold War.
    Yup, we ain't having that kind of RRF unless the USA sends the whole of the XVIII Airborne Corps to Europe.

    This is why it is crucial Trump loses in 2024, we're not going to have enough trained men ready.

    I feel like Churchill in the 1930s.
    You're about to make a speech against self-determination for India?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 45,003

    Well it was six yesterday.

    Three Red Wall Conservative MPs are in defection talks with Labour, The Telegraph can reveal.

    Labour sources told The Telegraph that the three male Conservatives, first elected in 2019, have entered formal discussions about crossing the floor to join Sir Keir Starmer’s party…


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/06/27/exclusive-three-red-wall-conservatives-talks-defect-labour/

    Perhaps they turned down the other three already ?
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 1,811
    edited June 27

    Leon said:

    Applicant said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    I for one am glad Scott_xP puts up the tweets. Obviously helps that I agree with the points he’s making, whether he is using his own words or someone else’s. We need to hear it. Because Brexit has had a massively negative impact, and will continue to do so, until we accept that and start to try and resolve it (and not by unilaterally breaking treaties we have signed). And we’re far from that point. But we’re getting there slowly.

    Stick your fingers in your ears, have a pop at Scott_xP, scroll past his posts without reading them, do whatever you feel. It won’t change the fact that gradually, steadily, inexorably, the country is realising it has been conned.

    I've felt like the country has been conned for six years. These Tweets are available on Twitter. I don't come here for syndicated Tweets. I go to Twitter for tweets. They're counterproductive because, amazingly, the poster on here who gets me most wound up about Brexit is a fellow Remainer.
    I get that. I still think it needs hammering home. Not everyone goes on Twitter.

    And even if you do, it is extremely easy to get stuck in your own Twitter circle jerk, only hearing voices you agree with. It’s Twitter’s biggest fault.

    It is good, IMHO, to have Scott’s reportage. Many will find it uncomfortable, or, like you, irritating. I still think he does a valuable service posting in the way he does.

    It's not fucking "reportage". @Scott_xP is not on the front line of Brexit, with the shrapnel of the NI Protocol whistling past his ears. It is retweeting

    The main emotion it evokes is pity for him. And intense boredom. Is that what he wants? Fair enough, but it does not adorn the site nor does it advance his cause
    I think we’re all on the front line of Brexit!

    Bless him, he’s in the digital trenches, a plucky runner risking life and limb - and perhaps sanity - to bring us, the armchair generals, blood flecked dispatches full of tales of pettifogging bureaucracy, tumbling exports and frustrated holiday makers, ruefully eyeing the EU gates.
    Mute button? Man's won the FBPE VC many times over. Remember those times he posted stuff slightly too uncooked, got a pasting, but still went over the top again.

    That's how you win wars.
    If Brexit was a war, Scotty is Hiroo Onoda.
    There’s no reason for that sort of language on here 😠.

    I think you all get too worked up by Brexit on PB. My humble view is the difference between being in and out is out now we will get a bit economically worse off in coming years, less growth, less jobs, less investment in UK - but not to some huge dramatic degree that justifies all this fuss. Even a bit financially poorer, we will still be here, there will always be an England.

    Some of you act like it wasn’t democratic or won on a fistful of lies. But you will never have evidence that’s true, so you should be polite and not mention what you can’t prove.
    We know it was won on lies - some of the leading figures in "Leave" openly said so

    https://politicsandinsights.org/2017/10/27/leave-director-admitted-the-brexit-referendum-was-won-by-lying-to-the-public/

    There are others. Thirty seconds use of Google Search will turn up plenty of references
    It was won because reman failed to make a case and Obama comments of UK at the back of the queue annoyed a lot of people

    Lies or otherwise it was a failure by the remain camp to win their case which should have been a walk in the park
    Obama was absolutely correct in what he said. Leavers didn't like it because he was a part-Kenyan getting above his station.
    I would just say I thought it was a stupid thing to say and I supported remain
    Not least, because an American like Obama would obviously say “line” not “queue”. He was given a script. Cameron is such a twat
    I know at least two professionals who moved off the fence to Leave after that speech.
    They must have felt like right dicks when it turned out to be a completley true statement
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 19,944
    maxh said:

    OT: After a particularly trying day at school, particularly in relation to students' use of snapchat to bully other students, I am really interested in anyone on here who would defend the current accessibility of smartphones and social media to teenagers.

    If it were up to me, in my current mood, I'd ban any smartphone or social media accounts for anyone under 18. I'm aware that I'm frustrated, and probably not seeing all sides of the debate, so would be really interested in anyone who is prepared to argue in favour of the status quo (kids between the ages of 12 and 18 having smartphones and social media accounts).

    As an aside, I am not normally in favour of state interference in the private lives of citizens, including kids, and would very much like this to be an issue that parents were empowered to take action on themselves. But I egularly speak to parents who feel powerless to do anything other than follow the crowd by giving kids smartphones, to avoid the kid being excluded from friendship circles.

    I agree they're a bad idea. Both smartphones and social media.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 17,286
    edited June 27

    Ben Wallace is on manoeuvres.

    Exclusive: Defence Secretary Ben Wallace has formally written to the PM to ask for the UK’s defence budget to be permanently increased to 2.5% of GDP - an extra 20% or £10bn a year - by 2028 because of the threat from a resurgent Russia, @TheNewsDesk can reveal.

    Ben Wallace has also pressed Boris Johnson to use the Madrid summit of NATO leaders tomorrow to show leadership on the international stage and call on the whole of the alliance to increase its minimum spend per country to 2.5 of GDP.

    In the letter and subsequent conversations with No10, Mr Wallace has highlighted alarming shortfalls in the UK’s military capabilities that the Ukraine conflict has exposed. They include not enough deep strike weapons, such as long range rockets…

    I agree with him, but something has got to give and it won't be the NHS, social care and pensions
    Indeed and I fear the plans to increase NATO RRF forces 40,000 to 300,000 is like my plans to marry Scarlett Johansson, unrealistic.
    I wonder if someone has misread a press release somewhere. Particularly since it also talks about increasing deployments only to brigade strength in several new locations in Eastern Europe.

    To have well over a quarter of a million men as a rapid reaction force - rather than total alloted NATO forces - would mean a mobilisation equal to or surpassing the peak of the Cold War.
    Yup, we ain't having that kind of RRF unless the USA sends the whole of the XVIII Airborne Corps to Europe.

    This is why it is crucial Trump loses in 2024, we're not going to have enough trained men ready.

    I feel like Churchill in the 1930s.
    You're about to make a speech against self-determination for India?
    Or getting ready to defend the new king who married a divorcee?
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,648

    Well now.

    And as Tory MPs look increasingly over Boris Johnson's shoulder, some are now talking up @grantshapps as their next leader.

    Tonight's #WaughOnPolitics is in your inbox


    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1541489755782844419

    Bored journalist. 'Who has not had a piece done on them as next PM?'
    'Shapps'
    'Fuck, really? Oh well, i'll give it a go'
    This is the bit of the script where they bring in Claire Ballentine for a chat about running for leader I think.
    Its Dehenna time. I know it, you know it, the whole damn world knows it.
  • TazTaz Posts: 6,194
    Roger said:

    Taz said:

    Roger said:

    DougSeal said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Is the bill "a muscle flex for a future leadership bid" Hoare asks of Liz Truss's Northern Ireland protocol bill.
    https://twitter.com/lisaocarroll/status/1541460767186247686

    Most of us have Twitter accounts. We don't need you to come in here and post this stuff. Can you imagine what PB would be like if we all did this? It's boring, worse its annoyingly boring.
    Then why don't you fuck off?

    If you want to read travelogues go to the Thomas Cook site
    This from the crackpot, rogerdamus, who,thinks the U.K. is on a par with Mugabes Zimbabwe or North Korea. While living in France.
    Who were you before you changed your username to the very fetching 'Taz'?
    You asked that before. I answered. You seem obsessed that posters here have had prior aliases. I haven’t. Get over it.

    Mate, why do you think, from the luxury of your pad in France, the U.K. is like Zimbabwe under the old man or North Korea.



  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 104,437
    edited June 27

    Ben Wallace is on manoeuvres.

    Exclusive: Defence Secretary Ben Wallace has formally written to the PM to ask for the UK’s defence budget to be permanently increased to 2.5% of GDP - an extra 20% or £10bn a year - by 2028 because of the threat from a resurgent Russia, @TheNewsDesk can reveal.

    Ben Wallace has also pressed Boris Johnson to use the Madrid summit of NATO leaders tomorrow to show leadership on the international stage and call on the whole of the alliance to increase its minimum spend per country to 2.5 of GDP.

    In the letter and subsequent conversations with No10, Mr Wallace has highlighted alarming shortfalls in the UK’s military capabilities that the Ukraine conflict has exposed. They include not enough deep strike weapons, such as long range rockets…

    I agree with him, but something has got to give and it won't be the NHS, social care and pensions
    Indeed and I fear the plans to increase NATO RRF forces 40,000 to 300,000 is like my plans to marry Scarlett Johansson, unrealistic.
    I wonder if someone has misread a press release somewhere. Particularly since it also talks about increasing deployments only to brigade strength in several new locations in Eastern Europe.

    To have well over a quarter of a million men as a rapid reaction force - rather than total alloted NATO forces - would mean a mobilisation equal to or surpassing the peak of the Cold War.
    Yup, we ain't having that kind of RRF unless the USA sends the whole of the XVIII Airborne Corps to Europe.

    This is why it is crucial Trump loses in 2024, we're not going to have enough trained men ready.

    I feel like Churchill in the 1930s.
    You're about to make a speech against self-determination for India?
    Well I do have piece in the pipeline about Boris Johnson's appearance, the phrase 'half naked fakir' does turn up.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 2,721
    Grant Shapps has something of Chris Packham about him.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 45,003

    CatMan said:

    eek said:



    What you don't say in the above is equally important.

    If next year Labour decided to run 2 candidates or the Lib Dems decided to run 2 candidates it's very likely that by splitting the vote you could end up in a position where both of you miss out.

    Quite so. I dare say that both parties will not get round to finding a second candidate. So hard to find the right people, and difficult to justify where we have no major quarrels.
    Hi Dr Nick! Wondered if you had seen this Guardian article and had any thoughts about it?

    "If you think Denmark is all Borgen and social equality, take a look at its awful ‘ghetto’ law"
    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jun/27/denmark-ghetto-law-eviction-non-western-residents-housing-estates
    Yes - if the report is fair then I don't approve (I like Denmark but not everything Danish is perfect). I do think there's merit in encouraging migrants to spread out, but I can see strong reasons why many won't want to, at least initially. If we were fleeing to somewhere unfamiliar, I'm sure we'd like to be near other migrants who could advise on how to get along in the new country. Offering positive incentives to move would make sense, but not eviction.
    Also Borden is pretty clear about the existence of right wing, xenophobic politicians, despite its liberal fantasies about their inevitable vanquishing.
  • TresTres Posts: 1,347

    Well now.

    And as Tory MPs look increasingly over Boris Johnson's shoulder, some are now talking up @grantshapps as their next leader.

    Tonight's #WaughOnPolitics is in your inbox


    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1541489755782844419

    Micky Green and Seb Fox will certainly back him.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 10,437
    That the Reman campaign solicited President Obama's public endorsement, is just one sign that it's "leadership" including Cameron were - to put it most mildly & kindly - asleep at the wheel.

    Statements pro & con on domestic issues (regardless of considerable impacts on foreign relations) made by foreigners are ALWAYS gonna be attacked by campaigners and advocates on the other side of the question.

    No other explanation required.

    Which is why Obama's urging Brits to reject Brexit in 2016 - like Guardian readers lobbying Ohioans to vote for Al Gore in 2000 - was worse than useless as an electoral strategy.

    Sure there are exceptions to this dynamic, but cannot think of any at the moment. Ones that occur as possibilities are cases where the foreign intervener has considerable skin in the game; for example, Bill Clinton's advocacy for the Good Friday Agreement.
  • northern_monkeynorthern_monkey Posts: 1,145

    Applicant said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    I for one am glad Scott_xP puts up the tweets. Obviously helps that I agree with the points he’s making, whether he is using his own words or someone else’s. We need to hear it. Because Brexit has had a massively negative impact, and will continue to do so, until we accept that and start to try and resolve it (and not by unilaterally breaking treaties we have signed). And we’re far from that point. But we’re getting there slowly.

    Stick your fingers in your ears, have a pop at Scott_xP, scroll past his posts without reading them, do whatever you feel. It won’t change the fact that gradually, steadily, inexorably, the country is realising it has been conned.

    I've felt like the country has been conned for six years. These Tweets are available on Twitter. I don't come here for syndicated Tweets. I go to Twitter for tweets. They're counterproductive because, amazingly, the poster on here who gets me most wound up about Brexit is a fellow Remainer.
    I get that. I still think it needs hammering home. Not everyone goes on Twitter.

    And even if you do, it is extremely easy to get stuck in your own Twitter circle jerk, only hearing voices you agree with. It’s Twitter’s biggest fault.

    It is good, IMHO, to have Scott’s reportage. Many will find it uncomfortable, or, like you, irritating. I still think he does a valuable service posting in the way he does.

    It's not fucking "reportage". @Scott_xP is not on the front line of Brexit, with the shrapnel of the NI Protocol whistling past his ears. It is retweeting

    The main emotion it evokes is pity for him. And intense boredom. Is that what he wants? Fair enough, but it does not adorn the site nor does it advance his cause
    I think we’re all on the front line of Brexit!

    Bless him, he’s in the digital trenches, a plucky runner risking life and limb - and perhaps sanity - to bring us, the armchair generals, blood flecked dispatches full of tales of pettifogging bureaucracy, tumbling exports and frustrated holiday makers, ruefully eyeing the EU gates.
    Mute button? Man's won the FBPE VC many times over. Remember those times he posted stuff slightly too uncooked, got a pasting, but still went over the top again.

    That's how you win wars.
    If Brexit was a war, Scotty is Hiroo Onoda.
    There’s no reason for that sort of language on here 😠.

    I think you all get too worked up by Brexit on PB. My humble view is the difference between being in and out is out now we will get a bit economically worse off in coming years, less growth, less jobs, less investment in UK - but not to some huge dramatic degree that justifies all this fuss. Even a bit financially poorer, we will still be here, there will always be an England.

    Some of you act like it wasn’t democratic or won on a fistful of lies. But you will never have evidence that’s true, so you should be polite and not mention what you can’t prove.
    We know it was won on lies - some of the leading figures in "Leave" openly said so

    https://politicsandinsights.org/2017/10/27/leave-director-admitted-the-brexit-referendum-was-won-by-lying-to-the-public/

    There are others. Thirty seconds use of Google Search will turn up plenty of references
    It was won because reman failed to make a case and Obama comments of UK at the back of the queue annoyed a lot of people

    Lies or otherwise it was a failure by the remain camp to win their case which should have been a walk in the park
    The Cameron-led Remain camp.

    I may be being paranoid, or over sensitive, but I sometimes think that when people refer to the remain camp, there’s a quiet inference that Remain = Labour.

    I could be completely wrong. I could be a frothing FBPE Remainiac. I try not to be, but you never know.

    But I do think that it is very important to remember that all three (count ‘em!) campaigns - Remain and the two Leaves - were essentially brought to you by the Tories. Or ex-Tory Ukippers.

    Yes Corbyn, yes Hoey, etc, etc. But that doesn’t change the fact that Brexit is Tory. Remain campaign, it’s faults and shortcomings - Tory. Leave, and it’s unicorn herds - Tory. The whole shitshow was.

    I hope that, to me, important point doesn’t get lost.
    Cameron and remain made a complete hash of the campaign, though it is fair to say labour did not support leave nor do they today, despite what they may say in public
    You’re right, of course. They didn’t and don’t. Or at least not the sane bits of Labour, such as they are.

    I think God must have wanted Brexit to happen. Why the hell else would s/he have made Corbyn Labour leader during the referendum?

    Still, despite that, to me it’ll always be wholly Tory - Remain, Leave, the whole stinking shitshow. Sane Labour could only play the cards they were dealt.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 45,003

    Well now.

    And as Tory MPs look increasingly over Boris Johnson's shoulder, some are now talking up @grantshapps as their next leader.

    Tonight's #WaughOnPolitics is in your inbox


    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1541489755782844419

    Damn, they really are desperate.
    Or smoking something.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 28,565
    Kotor View Update 3

    Cheers everyone!


  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 41,868

    Ben Wallace is on manoeuvres.

    Exclusive: Defence Secretary Ben Wallace has formally written to the PM to ask for the UK’s defence budget to be permanently increased to 2.5% of GDP - an extra 20% or £10bn a year - by 2028 because of the threat from a resurgent Russia, @TheNewsDesk can reveal.

    Ben Wallace has also pressed Boris Johnson to use the Madrid summit of NATO leaders tomorrow to show leadership on the international stage and call on the whole of the alliance to increase its minimum spend per country to 2.5 of GDP.

    In the letter and subsequent conversations with No10, Mr Wallace has highlighted alarming shortfalls in the UK’s military capabilities that the Ukraine conflict has exposed. They include not enough deep strike weapons, such as long range rockets…

    I agree with him, but something has got to give and it won't be the NHS, social care and pensions
    Indeed and I fear the plans to increase NATO RRF forces 40,000 to 300,000 is like my plans to marry Scarlett Johansson, unrealistic.
    I wonder if someone has misread a press release somewhere. Particularly since it also talks about increasing deployments only to brigade strength in several new locations in Eastern Europe.

    To have well over a quarter of a million men as a rapid reaction force - rather than total alloted NATO forces - would mean a mobilisation equal to or surpassing the peak of the Cold War.
    The Cold War just got somewhat hotter.
  • NorthofStokeNorthofStoke Posts: 1,758

    Applicant said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    I for one am glad Scott_xP puts up the tweets. Obviously helps that I agree with the points he’s making, whether he is using his own words or someone else’s. We need to hear it. Because Brexit has had a massively negative impact, and will continue to do so, until we accept that and start to try and resolve it (and not by unilaterally breaking treaties we have signed). And we’re far from that point. But we’re getting there slowly.

    Stick your fingers in your ears, have a pop at Scott_xP, scroll past his posts without reading them, do whatever you feel. It won’t change the fact that gradually, steadily, inexorably, the country is realising it has been conned.

    I've felt like the country has been conned for six years. These Tweets are available on Twitter. I don't come here for syndicated Tweets. I go to Twitter for tweets. They're counterproductive because, amazingly, the poster on here who gets me most wound up about Brexit is a fellow Remainer.
    I get that. I still think it needs hammering home. Not everyone goes on Twitter.

    And even if you do, it is extremely easy to get stuck in your own Twitter circle jerk, only hearing voices you agree with. It’s Twitter’s biggest fault.

    It is good, IMHO, to have Scott’s reportage. Many will find it uncomfortable, or, like you, irritating. I still think he does a valuable service posting in the way he does.

    It's not fucking "reportage". @Scott_xP is not on the front line of Brexit, with the shrapnel of the NI Protocol whistling past his ears. It is retweeting

    The main emotion it evokes is pity for him. And intense boredom. Is that what he wants? Fair enough, but it does not adorn the site nor does it advance his cause
    I think we’re all on the front line of Brexit!

    Bless him, he’s in the digital trenches, a plucky runner risking life and limb - and perhaps sanity - to bring us, the armchair generals, blood flecked dispatches full of tales of pettifogging bureaucracy, tumbling exports and frustrated holiday makers, ruefully eyeing the EU gates.
    Mute button? Man's won the FBPE VC many times over. Remember those times he posted stuff slightly too uncooked, got a pasting, but still went over the top again.

    That's how you win wars.
    If Brexit was a war, Scotty is Hiroo Onoda.
    There’s no reason for that sort of language on here 😠.

    I think you all get too worked up by Brexit on PB. My humble view is the difference between being in and out is out now we will get a bit economically worse off in coming years, less growth, less jobs, less investment in UK - but not to some huge dramatic degree that justifies all this fuss. Even a bit financially poorer, we will still be here, there will always be an England.

    Some of you act like it wasn’t democratic or won on a fistful of lies. But you will never have evidence that’s true, so you should be polite and not mention what you can’t prove.
    We know it was won on lies - some of the leading figures in "Leave" openly said so

    https://politicsandinsights.org/2017/10/27/leave-director-admitted-the-brexit-referendum-was-won-by-lying-to-the-public/

    There are others. Thirty seconds use of Google Search will turn up plenty of references
    It was won because reman failed to make a case and Obama comments of UK at the back of the queue annoyed a lot of people

    Lies or otherwise it was a failure by the remain camp to win their case which should have been a walk in the park
    The Cameron-led Remain camp.

    I may be being paranoid, or over sensitive, but I sometimes think that when people refer to the remain camp, there’s a quiet inference that Remain = Labour.

    I could be completely wrong. I could be a frothing FBPE Remainiac. I try not to be, but you never know.

    But I do think that it is very important to remember that all three (count ‘em!) campaigns - Remain and the two Leaves - were essentially brought to you by the Tories. Or ex-Tory Ukippers.

    Yes Corbyn, yes Hoey, etc, etc. But that doesn’t change the fact that Brexit is Tory. Remain campaign, it’s faults and shortcomings - Tory. Leave, and it’s unicorn herds - Tory. The whole shitshow was.

    I hope that, to me, important point doesn’t get lost.
    Cameron and remain made a complete hash of the campaign, though it is fair to say labour did not support leave nor do they today, despite what they may say in public
    Because the result was fairly close it is easy to look at various factors and actors and think "if only.." Corbyn and McDonnell both long standing leavers and less than enthusiastic remain campaigners, Cameron expecting to be in a coalition and therefore conveniently blocked from calling a referendum (thanks Ed Miliband and the Ed Stone), Merkel not leading a drive for more UK accommodation and "creating" a refugee crisis, a rubbish remain campaign. The list goes on. Such is fate.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 2,958
    On smartphones and kids the only defence I'll offer is that over the lockdown period those phones and social media outlets were invaluable for kids in order to maintain contact with their friends etc. Lockdown was shit for adults but trebly so for kids and young adults.

    Though otherwise I do agree that it is a recipe for disaster, speaking as someone who saw their niece getting bullied over one of them.
  • eekeek Posts: 21,770

    Well now.

    And as Tory MPs look increasingly over Boris Johnson's shoulder, some are now talking up @grantshapps as their next leader.

    Tonight's #WaughOnPolitics is in your inbox


    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1541489755782844419

    They may be exaggerating the numbers? There is probably one, G. Shapps M.P.
    Given how many names G. Shapps has gone by other the years you can see how a political journalist may get confused...
  • RogerRoger Posts: 17,403

    Leon said:

    Applicant said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    I for one am glad Scott_xP puts up the tweets. Obviously helps that I agree with the points he’s making, whether he is using his own words or someone else’s. We need to hear it. Because Brexit has had a massively negative impact, and will continue to do so, until we accept that and start to try and resolve it (and not by unilaterally breaking treaties we have signed). And we’re far from that point. But we’re getting there slowly.

    Stick your fingers in your ears, have a pop at Scott_xP, scroll past his posts without reading them, do whatever you feel. It won’t change the fact that gradually, steadily, inexorably, the country is realising it has been conned.

    I've felt like the country has been conned for six years. These Tweets are available on Twitter. I don't come here for syndicated Tweets. I go to Twitter for tweets. They're counterproductive because, amazingly, the poster on here who gets me most wound up about Brexit is a fellow Remainer.
    I get that. I still think it needs hammering home. Not everyone goes on Twitter.

    And even if you do, it is extremely easy to get stuck in your own Twitter circle jerk, only hearing voices you agree with. It’s Twitter’s biggest fault.

    It is good, IMHO, to have Scott’s reportage. Many will find it uncomfortable, or, like you, irritating. I still think he does a valuable service posting in the way he does.

    It's not fucking "reportage". @Scott_xP is not on the front line of Brexit, with the shrapnel of the NI Protocol whistling past his ears. It is retweeting

    The main emotion it evokes is pity for him. And intense boredom. Is that what he wants? Fair enough, but it does not adorn the site nor does it advance his cause
    I think we’re all on the front line of Brexit!

    Bless him, he’s in the digital trenches, a plucky runner risking life and limb - and perhaps sanity - to bring us, the armchair generals, blood flecked dispatches full of tales of pettifogging bureaucracy, tumbling exports and frustrated holiday makers, ruefully eyeing the EU gates.
    Mute button? Man's won the FBPE VC many times over. Remember those times he posted stuff slightly too uncooked, got a pasting, but still went over the top again.

    That's how you win wars.
    If Brexit was a war, Scotty is Hiroo Onoda.
    There’s no reason for that sort of language on here 😠.

    I think you all get too worked up by Brexit on PB. My humble view is the difference between being in and out is out now we will get a bit economically worse off in coming years, less growth, less jobs, less investment in UK - but not to some huge dramatic degree that justifies all this fuss. Even a bit financially poorer, we will still be here, there will always be an England.

    Some of you act like it wasn’t democratic or won on a fistful of lies. But you will never have evidence that’s true, so you should be polite and not mention what you can’t prove.
    We know it was won on lies - some of the leading figures in "Leave" openly said so

    https://politicsandinsights.org/2017/10/27/leave-director-admitted-the-brexit-referendum-was-won-by-lying-to-the-public/

    There are others. Thirty seconds use of Google Search will turn up plenty of references
    It was won because reman failed to make a case and Obama comments of UK at the back of the queue annoyed a lot of people

    Lies or otherwise it was a failure by the remain camp to win their case which should have been a walk in the park
    Obama was absolutely correct in what he said. Leavers didn't like it because he was a part-Kenyan getting above his station.
    I would just say I thought it was a stupid thing to say and I supported remain
    Not least, because an American like Obama would obviously say “line” not “queue”. He was given a script. Cameron is such a twat
    I know at least two professionals who moved off the fence to Leave after that speech.
    Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face!

    Completely batty!
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 1,811
    Since we literally have at least one American posting on here...

    @SeaShantyIrish2 (what happened to SeaShantyIrish1?), what does the word "Queue" mean to you?!
  • NorthofStokeNorthofStoke Posts: 1,758
    TimS said:

    Grant Shapps has something of Chris Packham about him.

    I take it that you don't see that as a good thing?
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 10,437

    Well now.

    And as Tory MPs look increasingly over Boris Johnson's shoulder, some are now talking up @grantshapps as their next leader.

    Tonight's #WaughOnPolitics is in your inbox


    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1541489755782844419

    "After all, there have been less likely Prime Ministers."

    "Who?"

    "Well... The Marquis of Bute..."

    There is always a relevant Yes, Minister line.
    Won't that be Boris Johnson's new moniker when he's elevated (via boot to backside) to House of Lords?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 81,242

    Well now.

    And as Tory MPs look increasingly over Boris Johnson's shoulder, some are now talking up @grantshapps as their next leader.

    Tonight's #WaughOnPolitics is in your inbox


    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1541489755782844419

    Bored journalist. 'Who has not had a piece done on them as next PM?'
    'Shapps'
    'Fuck, really? Oh well, i'll give it a go'
    This is the bit of the script where they bring in Claire Ballentine for a chat about running for leader I think.
    Its Dehenna time. I know it, you know it, the whole damn world knows it.
    We do?!

    I thought I'd see who the youngest Tory MP was if they were looking for a real generation shift. It's interesting how stable the average age of MPs has been since at least 1979 - no higher than 51.2, no lower than 48.8 (in 1983).

    https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/house-of-commons-trends-the-age-of-mps/
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 35,453
    TimS said:

    Foxy said:

    Ben Wallace is on manoeuvres.

    Exclusive: Defence Secretary Ben Wallace has formally written to the PM to ask for the UK’s defence budget to be permanently increased to 2.5% of GDP - an extra 20% or £10bn a year - by 2028 because of the threat from a resurgent Russia, @TheNewsDesk can reveal.

    Ben Wallace has also pressed Boris Johnson to use the Madrid summit of NATO leaders tomorrow to show leadership on the international stage and call on the whole of the alliance to increase its minimum spend per country to 2.5 of GDP.

    In the letter and subsequent conversations with No10, Mr Wallace has highlighted alarming shortfalls in the UK’s military capabilities that the Ukraine conflict has exposed. They include not enough deep strike weapons, such as long range rockets…

    Wallace is absolutely right.

    Europe and UK needs to rearm as a matter of extreme urgency.

    This is 1930s again. Here, now. Clear and present danger whilst Putin and his mad, neo-russian-empire chums are in power.
    I am not convinced we do need to re-arm, and certainly wouldn't do so until the lessons of recent wars are clear, including the current Ukraine one. The Russian Army is being heavily depleted and much of its equipment found wanting, on land sea and air.

    Restocking ammo passed on certainly, but the rest requires thought.
    The lesson of Ukraine so far seems to be that we need to arm and train the countries of Eastern Europe to the teeth (or rather, help them to rearm themselves). And keep our intelligence capabilities as top notch as possible.
    Yes, they need to phase out all of the rest of their Soviet era stock and re-equip and re-train on modern NATO kit. Financing and assisting that would do much more for the defence of the continent than feather-bedding BAE to make stuff that overruns massively on cost and isn't in service for a decade or longer.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 48,109
    CatMan said:

    Leon said:

    Applicant said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    I for one am glad Scott_xP puts up the tweets. Obviously helps that I agree with the points he’s making, whether he is using his own words or someone else’s. We need to hear it. Because Brexit has had a massively negative impact, and will continue to do so, until we accept that and start to try and resolve it (and not by unilaterally breaking treaties we have signed). And we’re far from that point. But we’re getting there slowly.

    Stick your fingers in your ears, have a pop at Scott_xP, scroll past his posts without reading them, do whatever you feel. It won’t change the fact that gradually, steadily, inexorably, the country is realising it has been conned.

    I've felt like the country has been conned for six years. These Tweets are available on Twitter. I don't come here for syndicated Tweets. I go to Twitter for tweets. They're counterproductive because, amazingly, the poster on here who gets me most wound up about Brexit is a fellow Remainer.
    I get that. I still think it needs hammering home. Not everyone goes on Twitter.

    And even if you do, it is extremely easy to get stuck in your own Twitter circle jerk, only hearing voices you agree with. It’s Twitter’s biggest fault.

    It is good, IMHO, to have Scott’s reportage. Many will find it uncomfortable, or, like you, irritating. I still think he does a valuable service posting in the way he does.

    It's not fucking "reportage". @Scott_xP is not on the front line of Brexit, with the shrapnel of the NI Protocol whistling past his ears. It is retweeting

    The main emotion it evokes is pity for him. And intense boredom. Is that what he wants? Fair enough, but it does not adorn the site nor does it advance his cause
    I think we’re all on the front line of Brexit!

    Bless him, he’s in the digital trenches, a plucky runner risking life and limb - and perhaps sanity - to bring us, the armchair generals, blood flecked dispatches full of tales of pettifogging bureaucracy, tumbling exports and frustrated holiday makers, ruefully eyeing the EU gates.
    Mute button? Man's won the FBPE VC many times over. Remember those times he posted stuff slightly too uncooked, got a pasting, but still went over the top again.

    That's how you win wars.
    If Brexit was a war, Scotty is Hiroo Onoda.
    There’s no reason for that sort of language on here 😠.

    I think you all get too worked up by Brexit on PB. My humble view is the difference between being in and out is out now we will get a bit economically worse off in coming years, less growth, less jobs, less investment in UK - but not to some huge dramatic degree that justifies all this fuss. Even a bit financially poorer, we will still be here, there will always be an England.

    Some of you act like it wasn’t democratic or won on a fistful of lies. But you will never have evidence that’s true, so you should be polite and not mention what you can’t prove.
    We know it was won on lies - some of the leading figures in "Leave" openly said so

    https://politicsandinsights.org/2017/10/27/leave-director-admitted-the-brexit-referendum-was-won-by-lying-to-the-public/

    There are others. Thirty seconds use of Google Search will turn up plenty of references
    It was won because reman failed to make a case and Obama comments of UK at the back of the queue annoyed a lot of people

    Lies or otherwise it was a failure by the remain camp to win their case which should have been a walk in the park
    Obama was absolutely correct in what he said. Leavers didn't like it because he was a part-Kenyan getting above his station.
    I would just say I thought it was a stupid thing to say and I supported remain
    Not least, because an American like Obama would obviously say “line” not “queue”. He was given a script. Cameron is such a twat
    I know at least two professionals who moved off the fence to Leave after that speech.
    They must have felt like right dicks when it turned out to be a completley true statement
    UK trade talks were prioritised under the Trump administration but stalled due to the usual politics over agriculture.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 6,547

    Applicant said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    I for one am glad Scott_xP puts up the tweets. Obviously helps that I agree with the points he’s making, whether he is using his own words or someone else’s. We need to hear it. Because Brexit has had a massively negative impact, and will continue to do so, until we accept that and start to try and resolve it (and not by unilaterally breaking treaties we have signed). And we’re far from that point. But we’re getting there slowly.

    Stick your fingers in your ears, have a pop at Scott_xP, scroll past his posts without reading them, do whatever you feel. It won’t change the fact that gradually, steadily, inexorably, the country is realising it has been conned.

    I've felt like the country has been conned for six years. These Tweets are available on Twitter. I don't come here for syndicated Tweets. I go to Twitter for tweets. They're counterproductive because, amazingly, the poster on here who gets me most wound up about Brexit is a fellow Remainer.
    I get that. I still think it needs hammering home. Not everyone goes on Twitter.

    And even if you do, it is extremely easy to get stuck in your own Twitter circle jerk, only hearing voices you agree with. It’s Twitter’s biggest fault.

    It is good, IMHO, to have Scott’s reportage. Many will find it uncomfortable, or, like you, irritating. I still think he does a valuable service posting in the way he does.

    It's not fucking "reportage". @Scott_xP is not on the front line of Brexit, with the shrapnel of the NI Protocol whistling past his ears. It is retweeting

    The main emotion it evokes is pity for him. And intense boredom. Is that what he wants? Fair enough, but it does not adorn the site nor does it advance his cause
    I think we’re all on the front line of Brexit!

    Bless him, he’s in the digital trenches, a plucky runner risking life and limb - and perhaps sanity - to bring us, the armchair generals, blood flecked dispatches full of tales of pettifogging bureaucracy, tumbling exports and frustrated holiday makers, ruefully eyeing the EU gates.
    Mute button? Man's won the FBPE VC many times over. Remember those times he posted stuff slightly too uncooked, got a pasting, but still went over the top again.

    That's how you win wars.
    If Brexit was a war, Scotty is Hiroo Onoda.
    There’s no reason for that sort of language on here 😠.

    I think you all get too worked up by Brexit on PB. My humble view is the difference between being in and out is out now we will get a bit economically worse off in coming years, less growth, less jobs, less investment in UK - but not to some huge dramatic degree that justifies all this fuss. Even a bit financially poorer, we will still be here, there will always be an England.

    Some of you act like it wasn’t democratic or won on a fistful of lies. But you will never have evidence that’s true, so you should be polite and not mention what you can’t prove.
    We know it was won on lies - some of the leading figures in "Leave" openly said so

    https://politicsandinsights.org/2017/10/27/leave-director-admitted-the-brexit-referendum-was-won-by-lying-to-the-public/

    There are others. Thirty seconds use of Google Search will turn up plenty of references
    It was won because reman failed to make a case and Obama comments of UK at the back of the queue annoyed a lot of people

    Lies or otherwise it was a failure by the remain camp to win their case which should have been a walk in the park
    The Cameron-led Remain camp.

    I may be being paranoid, or over sensitive, but I sometimes think that when people refer to the remain camp, there’s a quiet inference that Remain = Labour.

    I could be completely wrong. I could be a frothing FBPE Remainiac. I try not to be, but you never know.

    But I do think that it is very important to remember that all three (count ‘em!) campaigns - Remain and the two Leaves - were essentially brought to you by the Tories. Or ex-Tory Ukippers.

    Yes Corbyn, yes Hoey, etc, etc. But that doesn’t change the fact that Brexit is Tory. Remain campaign, it’s faults and shortcomings - Tory. Leave, and it’s unicorn herds - Tory. The whole shitshow was.

    I hope that, to me, important point doesn’t get lost.
    Cameron and remain made a complete hash of the campaign, though it is fair to say labour did not support leave nor do they today, despite what they may say in public
    You’re right, of course. They didn’t and don’t. Or at least not the sane bits of Labour, such as they are.

    I think God must have wanted Brexit to happen. Why the hell else would s/he have made Corbyn Labour leader during the referendum?

    Still, despite that, to me it’ll always be wholly Tory - Remain, Leave, the whole stinking shitshow. Sane Labour could only play the cards they were dealt.
    Maybe God did. Perhaps not even God can make sense of something that pretends to be a state and not a state, with a Potemkin parliament, law making powers, and a central bank and single currency but no common defence policy or armed force.

  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 4,920
    God is there anything more boring than people who still can’t let Brexit go and keep talking about. Including the PM.
  • TazTaz Posts: 6,194
    Leon said:

    Kotor View Update 3

    Cheers everyone!


    Enjoy
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 35,453
    Roger said:

    Leon said:

    Applicant said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    I for one am glad Scott_xP puts up the tweets. Obviously helps that I agree with the points he’s making, whether he is using his own words or someone else’s. We need to hear it. Because Brexit has had a massively negative impact, and will continue to do so, until we accept that and start to try and resolve it (and not by unilaterally breaking treaties we have signed). And we’re far from that point. But we’re getting there slowly.

    Stick your fingers in your ears, have a pop at Scott_xP, scroll past his posts without reading them, do whatever you feel. It won’t change the fact that gradually, steadily, inexorably, the country is realising it has been conned.

    I've felt like the country has been conned for six years. These Tweets are available on Twitter. I don't come here for syndicated Tweets. I go to Twitter for tweets. They're counterproductive because, amazingly, the poster on here who gets me most wound up about Brexit is a fellow Remainer.
    I get that. I still think it needs hammering home. Not everyone goes on Twitter.

    And even if you do, it is extremely easy to get stuck in your own Twitter circle jerk, only hearing voices you agree with. It’s Twitter’s biggest fault.

    It is good, IMHO, to have Scott’s reportage. Many will find it uncomfortable, or, like you, irritating. I still think he does a valuable service posting in the way he does.

    It's not fucking "reportage". @Scott_xP is not on the front line of Brexit, with the shrapnel of the NI Protocol whistling past his ears. It is retweeting

    The main emotion it evokes is pity for him. And intense boredom. Is that what he wants? Fair enough, but it does not adorn the site nor does it advance his cause
    I think we’re all on the front line of Brexit!

    Bless him, he’s in the digital trenches, a plucky runner risking life and limb - and perhaps sanity - to bring us, the armchair generals, blood flecked dispatches full of tales of pettifogging bureaucracy, tumbling exports and frustrated holiday makers, ruefully eyeing the EU gates.
    Mute button? Man's won the FBPE VC many times over. Remember those times he posted stuff slightly too uncooked, got a pasting, but still went over the top again.

    That's how you win wars.
    If Brexit was a war, Scotty is Hiroo Onoda.
    There’s no reason for that sort of language on here 😠.

    I think you all get too worked up by Brexit on PB. My humble view is the difference between being in and out is out now we will get a bit economically worse off in coming years, less growth, less jobs, less investment in UK - but not to some huge dramatic degree that justifies all this fuss. Even a bit financially poorer, we will still be here, there will always be an England.

    Some of you act like it wasn’t democratic or won on a fistful of lies. But you will never have evidence that’s true, so you should be polite and not mention what you can’t prove.
    We know it was won on lies - some of the leading figures in "Leave" openly said so

    https://politicsandinsights.org/2017/10/27/leave-director-admitted-the-brexit-referendum-was-won-by-lying-to-the-public/

    There are others. Thirty seconds use of Google Search will turn up plenty of references
    It was won because reman failed to make a case and Obama comments of UK at the back of the queue annoyed a lot of people

    Lies or otherwise it was a failure by the remain camp to win their case which should have been a walk in the park
    Obama was absolutely correct in what he said. Leavers didn't like it because he was a part-Kenyan getting above his station.
    I would just say I thought it was a stupid thing to say and I supported remain
    Not least, because an American like Obama would obviously say “line” not “queue”. He was given a script. Cameron is such a twat
    I know at least two professionals who moved off the fence to Leave after that speech.
    Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face!

    Completely batty!
    People vote one way or another for all sorts of trivial reasons, or for that matter misunderstandings of complex issues. It is one of many reasons that referendums are not a good way to decide things, but rather a way to entrench division.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,648
    kle4 said:

    Well now.

    And as Tory MPs look increasingly over Boris Johnson's shoulder, some are now talking up @grantshapps as their next leader.

    Tonight's #WaughOnPolitics is in your inbox


    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1541489755782844419

    Bored journalist. 'Who has not had a piece done on them as next PM?'
    'Shapps'
    'Fuck, really? Oh well, i'll give it a go'
    This is the bit of the script where they bring in Claire Ballentine for a chat about running for leader I think.
    Its Dehenna time. I know it, you know it, the whole damn world knows it.
    We do?!

    I thought I'd see who the youngest Tory MP was if they were looking for a real generation shift. It's interesting how stable the average age of MPs has been since at least 1979 - no higher than 51.2, no lower than 48.8 (in 1983).

    https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/house-of-commons-trends-the-age-of-mps/
    I'm kidding but she will be leader in a decade.
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 1,811

    Applicant said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    I for one am glad Scott_xP puts up the tweets. Obviously helps that I agree with the points he’s making, whether he is using his own words or someone else’s. We need to hear it. Because Brexit has had a massively negative impact, and will continue to do so, until we accept that and start to try and resolve it (and not by unilaterally breaking treaties we have signed). And we’re far from that point. But we’re getting there slowly.

    Stick your fingers in your ears, have a pop at Scott_xP, scroll past his posts without reading them, do whatever you feel. It won’t change the fact that gradually, steadily, inexorably, the country is realising it has been conned.

    I've felt like the country has been conned for six years. These Tweets are available on Twitter. I don't come here for syndicated Tweets. I go to Twitter for tweets. They're counterproductive because, amazingly, the poster on here who gets me most wound up about Brexit is a fellow Remainer.
    I get that. I still think it needs hammering home. Not everyone goes on Twitter.

    And even if you do, it is extremely easy to get stuck in your own Twitter circle jerk, only hearing voices you agree with. It’s Twitter’s biggest fault.

    It is good, IMHO, to have Scott’s reportage. Many will find it uncomfortable, or, like you, irritating. I still think he does a valuable service posting in the way he does.

    It's not fucking "reportage". @Scott_xP is not on the front line of Brexit, with the shrapnel of the NI Protocol whistling past his ears. It is retweeting

    The main emotion it evokes is pity for him. And intense boredom. Is that what he wants? Fair enough, but it does not adorn the site nor does it advance his cause
    I think we’re all on the front line of Brexit!

    Bless him, he’s in the digital trenches, a plucky runner risking life and limb - and perhaps sanity - to bring us, the armchair generals, blood flecked dispatches full of tales of pettifogging bureaucracy, tumbling exports and frustrated holiday makers, ruefully eyeing the EU gates.
    Mute button? Man's won the FBPE VC many times over. Remember those times he posted stuff slightly too uncooked, got a pasting, but still went over the top again.

    That's how you win wars.
    If Brexit was a war, Scotty is Hiroo Onoda.
    There’s no reason for that sort of language on here 😠.

    I think you all get too worked up by Brexit on PB. My humble view is the difference between being in and out is out now we will get a bit economically worse off in coming years, less growth, less jobs, less investment in UK - but not to some huge dramatic degree that justifies all this fuss. Even a bit financially poorer, we will still be here, there will always be an England.

    Some of you act like it wasn’t democratic or won on a fistful of lies. But you will never have evidence that’s true, so you should be polite and not mention what you can’t prove.
    We know it was won on lies - some of the leading figures in "Leave" openly said so

    https://politicsandinsights.org/2017/10/27/leave-director-admitted-the-brexit-referendum-was-won-by-lying-to-the-public/

    There are others. Thirty seconds use of Google Search will turn up plenty of references
    It was won because reman failed to make a case and Obama comments of UK at the back of the queue annoyed a lot of people

    Lies or otherwise it was a failure by the remain camp to win their case which should have been a walk in the park
    I should add, I don't get this idea that it was obvious that Remain would win the referendum, and that the only reason they lost was because of a terrible campaign. It might have been terrible campaign, but we had had over 30 years of the most popular newspapers run by commited Eurosceptics.

    I mean look at the polls:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_United_Kingdom_European_Union_membership_referendum

    Anyone looking at that before the vote who thought "Well Remain has got it in the bag" I would suggest needs to get a CAT scan
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 6,547
    Leon said:

    Kotor View Update 3

    Cheers everyone!


    Was the Test Match on? And what's the Montenegrin for silly mid on?

  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,648
    edited June 27
    moonshine said:

    God is there anything more boring than people who still can’t let Brexit go and keep talking about. Including the PM.

    People still going on about the great AV schism of 2011.
    Nick Clegg.
    Separate entries.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 7,322
    moonshine said:

    God is there anything more boring than people who still can’t let Brexit go and keep talking about. Including the PM.

    Let us know if God replies. THAT would be interesting ;)
  • stodgestodge Posts: 10,962
    Evening all :)

    Six years on and it seems some are forever frozen in the moment.

    Mrs Stodge and I have been to Kotor - two of the "cruise ship hordes" as someone put it - and you don't hear me going on about it. We went in September 2019 during an excellent Adriatic cruise - my personal favourites were Split and Korcula but Kotor was very pleasant.

    A quiet day politically - on the markets the FTSE bounce has returned it to almost the mid-point between its 52 week high and low.

    It's all a bit marking time. I've given Mrs Stodge's brother a bit of stick about the cricket but he has reminded me, not unreasonably, that with the captain and the main coach for England both Kiwis it's more like a local derby.

    Nothing really has changed around Boris Johnson - if people think Grant Shapps is the answer, they need to go away and think a bit more about the question.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 8,323

    Well now.

    And as Tory MPs look increasingly over Boris Johnson's shoulder, some are now talking up @grantshapps as their next leader.

    Tonight's #WaughOnPolitics is in your inbox


    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1541489755782844419

    "After all, there have been less likely Prime Ministers."

    "Who?"

    "Well... The Marquis of Bute..."

    There is always a relevant Yes, Minister line.
    Won't that be Boris Johnson's new moniker when he's elevated (via boot to backside) to House of Lords?
    A Marquis? Oh Lordy, no…
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 35,453
    algarkirk said:

    Applicant said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    I for one am glad Scott_xP puts up the tweets. Obviously helps that I agree with the points he’s making, whether he is using his own words or someone else’s. We need to hear it. Because Brexit has had a massively negative impact, and will continue to do so, until we accept that and start to try and resolve it (and not by unilaterally breaking treaties we have signed). And we’re far from that point. But we’re getting there slowly.

    Stick your fingers in your ears, have a pop at Scott_xP, scroll past his posts without reading them, do whatever you feel. It won’t change the fact that gradually, steadily, inexorably, the country is realising it has been conned.

    I've felt like the country has been conned for six years. These Tweets are available on Twitter. I don't come here for syndicated Tweets. I go to Twitter for tweets. They're counterproductive because, amazingly, the poster on here who gets me most wound up about Brexit is a fellow Remainer.
    I get that. I still think it needs hammering home. Not everyone goes on Twitter.

    And even if you do, it is extremely easy to get stuck in your own Twitter circle jerk, only hearing voices you agree with. It’s Twitter’s biggest fault.

    It is good, IMHO, to have Scott’s reportage. Many will find it uncomfortable, or, like you, irritating. I still think he does a valuable service posting in the way he does.

    It's not fucking "reportage". @Scott_xP is not on the front line of Brexit, with the shrapnel of the NI Protocol whistling past his ears. It is retweeting

    The main emotion it evokes is pity for him. And intense boredom. Is that what he wants? Fair enough, but it does not adorn the site nor does it advance his cause
    I think we’re all on the front line of Brexit!

    Bless him, he’s in the digital trenches, a plucky runner risking life and limb - and perhaps sanity - to bring us, the armchair generals, blood flecked dispatches full of tales of pettifogging bureaucracy, tumbling exports and frustrated holiday makers, ruefully eyeing the EU gates.
    Mute button? Man's won the FBPE VC many times over. Remember those times he posted stuff slightly too uncooked, got a pasting, but still went over the top again.

    That's how you win wars.
    If Brexit was a war, Scotty is Hiroo Onoda.
    There’s no reason for that sort of language on here 😠.

    I think you all get too worked up by Brexit on PB. My humble view is the difference between being in and out is out now we will get a bit economically worse off in coming years, less growth, less jobs, less investment in UK - but not to some huge dramatic degree that justifies all this fuss. Even a bit financially poorer, we will still be here, there will always be an England.

    Some of you act like it wasn’t democratic or won on a fistful of lies. But you will never have evidence that’s true, so you should be polite and not mention what you can’t prove.
    We know it was won on lies - some of the leading figures in "Leave" openly said so

    https://politicsandinsights.org/2017/10/27/leave-director-admitted-the-brexit-referendum-was-won-by-lying-to-the-public/

    There are others. Thirty seconds use of Google Search will turn up plenty of references
    It was won because reman failed to make a case and Obama comments of UK at the back of the queue annoyed a lot of people

    Lies or otherwise it was a failure by the remain camp to win their case which should have been a walk in the park
    The Cameron-led Remain camp.

    I may be being paranoid, or over sensitive, but I sometimes think that when people refer to the remain camp, there’s a quiet inference that Remain = Labour.

    I could be completely wrong. I could be a frothing FBPE Remainiac. I try not to be, but you never know.

    But I do think that it is very important to remember that all three (count ‘em!) campaigns - Remain and the two Leaves - were essentially brought to you by the Tories. Or ex-Tory Ukippers.

    Yes Corbyn, yes Hoey, etc, etc. But that doesn’t change the fact that Brexit is Tory. Remain campaign, it’s faults and shortcomings - Tory. Leave, and it’s unicorn herds - Tory. The whole shitshow was.

    I hope that, to me, important point doesn’t get lost.
    Cameron and remain made a complete hash of the campaign, though it is fair to say labour did not support leave nor do they today, despite what they may say in public
    You’re right, of course. They didn’t and don’t. Or at least not the sane bits of Labour, such as they are.

    I think God must have wanted Brexit to happen. Why the hell else would s/he have made Corbyn Labour leader during the referendum?

    Still, despite that, to me it’ll always be wholly Tory - Remain, Leave, the whole stinking shitshow. Sane Labour could only play the cards they were dealt.
    Maybe God did. Perhaps not even God can make sense of something that pretends to be a state and not a state, with a Potemkin parliament, law making powers, and a central bank and single currency but no common defence policy or armed force.

    I think God understands contradictions and incompatible ideas very well. He has published several books full of such things.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 41,868
    Foxy said:

    TimS said:

    Foxy said:

    Ben Wallace is on manoeuvres.

    Exclusive: Defence Secretary Ben Wallace has formally written to the PM to ask for the UK’s defence budget to be permanently increased to 2.5% of GDP - an extra 20% or £10bn a year - by 2028 because of the threat from a resurgent Russia, @TheNewsDesk can reveal.

    Ben Wallace has also pressed Boris Johnson to use the Madrid summit of NATO leaders tomorrow to show leadership on the international stage and call on the whole of the alliance to increase its minimum spend per country to 2.5 of GDP.

    In the letter and subsequent conversations with No10, Mr Wallace has highlighted alarming shortfalls in the UK’s military capabilities that the Ukraine conflict has exposed. They include not enough deep strike weapons, such as long range rockets…

    Wallace is absolutely right.

    Europe and UK needs to rearm as a matter of extreme urgency.

    This is 1930s again. Here, now. Clear and present danger whilst Putin and his mad, neo-russian-empire chums are in power.
    I am not convinced we do need to re-arm, and certainly wouldn't do so until the lessons of recent wars are clear, including the current Ukraine one. The Russian Army is being heavily depleted and much of its equipment found wanting, on land sea and air.

    Restocking ammo passed on certainly, but the rest requires thought.
    The lesson of Ukraine so far seems to be that we need to arm and train the countries of Eastern Europe to the teeth (or rather, help them to rearm themselves). And keep our intelligence capabilities as top notch as possible.
    Yes, they need to phase out all of the rest of their Soviet era stock and re-equip and re-train on modern NATO kit. Financing and assisting that would do much more for the defence of the continent than feather-bedding BAE to make stuff that overruns massively on cost and isn't in service for a decade or longer.
    Yep. We don’t need to develop loads of expensive new kit, just make more of what’s around already. Have everyone in NATO retire their Soviet arms (or send it to Ukraine if they want it), and back-fill with modern Western equipment

    Obviously, in the short term we need to get the offensive Western kit into Ukraine, and keep up the training on what’s new to them.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 17,403
    edited June 27
    Taz said:

    Roger said:

    Taz said:

    Roger said:

    DougSeal said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Is the bill "a muscle flex for a future leadership bid" Hoare asks of Liz Truss's Northern Ireland protocol bill.
    https://twitter.com/lisaocarroll/status/1541460767186247686

    Most of us have Twitter accounts. We don't need you to come in here and post this stuff. Can you imagine what PB would be like if we all did this? It's boring, worse its annoyingly boring.
    Then why don't you fuck off?

    If you want to read travelogues go to the Thomas Cook site
    This from the crackpot, rogerdamus, who,thinks the U.K. is on a par with Mugabes Zimbabwe or North Korea. While living in France.
    Who were you before you changed your username to the very fetching 'Taz'?
    You asked that before. I answered. You seem obsessed that posters here have had prior aliases. I haven’t. Get over it.

    Mate, why do you think, from the luxury of your pad in France, the U.K. is like Zimbabwe under the old man or North Korea.



    I ask because you continually refer to my posts from before you were posting. It's difficult to reply if I don't know who I'm talking to. I'll try again. Will the real TAZ please reveal himself?

    (PS. If you were banned I won't tell anyone you've sneaked back)
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 10,437
    CatMan said:

    Since we literally have at least one American posting on here...

    @SeaShantyIrish2 (what happened to SeaShantyIrish1?), what does the word "Queue" mean to you?!

    1. There was never a SeaShantyIrish1 that is fake news!

    2. In context, on website infested by UKers, clearly means "line" in honest American lingo. Otherwise, when seen written out without Brit context, first thing that pops into my fool head are the small pony tails once worn by salty sailors, old-school Chinese and revolting colonials.

    3. British usage is known on these shores (Pacific as well as Atlantic) but NOT copied except (maybe?) by the weirdest kind of extreme anglophile.
  • CatMan said:

    Leon said:

    Applicant said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    I for one am glad Scott_xP puts up the tweets. Obviously helps that I agree with the points he’s making, whether he is using his own words or someone else’s. We need to hear it. Because Brexit has had a massively negative impact, and will continue to do so, until we accept that and start to try and resolve it (and not by unilaterally breaking treaties we have signed). And we’re far from that point. But we’re getting there slowly.

    Stick your fingers in your ears, have a pop at Scott_xP, scroll past his posts without reading them, do whatever you feel. It won’t change the fact that gradually, steadily, inexorably, the country is realising it has been conned.

    I've felt like the country has been conned for six years. These Tweets are available on Twitter. I don't come here for syndicated Tweets. I go to Twitter for tweets. They're counterproductive because, amazingly, the poster on here who gets me most wound up about Brexit is a fellow Remainer.
    I get that. I still think it needs hammering home. Not everyone goes on Twitter.

    And even if you do, it is extremely easy to get stuck in your own Twitter circle jerk, only hearing voices you agree with. It’s Twitter’s biggest fault.

    It is good, IMHO, to have Scott’s reportage. Many will find it uncomfortable, or, like you, irritating. I still think he does a valuable service posting in the way he does.

    It's not fucking "reportage". @Scott_xP is not on the front line of Brexit, with the shrapnel of the NI Protocol whistling past his ears. It is retweeting

    The main emotion it evokes is pity for him. And intense boredom. Is that what he wants? Fair enough, but it does not adorn the site nor does it advance his cause
    I think we’re all on the front line of Brexit!

    Bless him, he’s in the digital trenches, a plucky runner risking life and limb - and perhaps sanity - to bring us, the armchair generals, blood flecked dispatches full of tales of pettifogging bureaucracy, tumbling exports and frustrated holiday makers, ruefully eyeing the EU gates.
    Mute button? Man's won the FBPE VC many times over. Remember those times he posted stuff slightly too uncooked, got a pasting, but still went over the top again.

    That's how you win wars.
    If Brexit was a war, Scotty is Hiroo Onoda.
    There’s no reason for that sort of language on here 😠.

    I think you all get too worked up by Brexit on PB. My humble view is the difference between being in and out is out now we will get a bit economically worse off in coming years, less growth, less jobs, less investment in UK - but not to some huge dramatic degree that justifies all this fuss. Even a bit financially poorer, we will still be here, there will always be an England.

    Some of you act like it wasn’t democratic or won on a fistful of lies. But you will never have evidence that’s true, so you should be polite and not mention what you can’t prove.
    We know it was won on lies - some of the leading figures in "Leave" openly said so

    https://politicsandinsights.org/2017/10/27/leave-director-admitted-the-brexit-referendum-was-won-by-lying-to-the-public/

    There are others. Thirty seconds use of Google Search will turn up plenty of references
    It was won because reman failed to make a case and Obama comments of UK at the back of the queue annoyed a lot of people

    Lies or otherwise it was a failure by the remain camp to win their case which should have been a walk in the park
    Obama was absolutely correct in what he said. Leavers didn't like it because he was a part-Kenyan getting above his station.
    I would just say I thought it was a stupid thing to say and I supported remain
    Not least, because an American like Obama would obviously say “line” not “queue”. He was given a script. Cameron is such a twat
    I know at least two professionals who moved off the fence to Leave after that speech.
    They must have felt like right dicks when it turned out to be a completley true statement
    UK trade talks were prioritised under the Trump administration but stalled due to the usual politics over agriculture.
    I've never had high expectations of a trade deal with the USA due to agriculture.

    CPTPP on the other hand ...
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 19,944
    algarkirk said:

    Leon said:

    Kotor View Update 3

    Cheers everyone!


    Was the Test Match on? And what's the Montenegrin for silly mid on?

    Montenegrin isn't included in Google Translate for some reason. It is a separate language according to Wikipedia.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 10,437
    algarkirk said:

    Leon said:

    Kotor View Update 3

    Cheers everyone!


    Was the Test Match on? And what's the Montenegrin for silly mid on?

    Same as in Serbian!
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 45,003
    I applaud this, even though its marketing value is obvious.

    https://twitter.com/EuromaidanPress/status/1541485319333224448
    The manufacturer of the drones Bayraktar TB2 says it will not accept payment for TB2s crowdfunded in the Ukrainian campaign "The People's Bayraktar" and will send three of its drones free of charge to Ukraine…
  • TazTaz Posts: 6,194
    Roger said:

    Taz said:

    Roger said:

    Taz said:

    Roger said:

    DougSeal said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Is the bill "a muscle flex for a future leadership bid" Hoare asks of Liz Truss's Northern Ireland protocol bill.
    https://twitter.com/lisaocarroll/status/1541460767186247686

    Most of us have Twitter accounts. We don't need you to come in here and post this stuff. Can you imagine what PB would be like if we all did this? It's boring, worse its annoyingly boring.
    Then why don't you fuck off?

    If you want to read travelogues go to the Thomas Cook site
    This from the crackpot, rogerdamus, who,thinks the U.K. is on a par with Mugabes Zimbabwe or North Korea. While living in France.
    Who were you before you changed your username to the very fetching 'Taz'?
    You asked that before. I answered. You seem obsessed that posters here have had prior aliases. I haven’t. Get over it.

    Mate, why do you think, from the luxury of your pad in France, the U.K. is like Zimbabwe under the old man or North Korea.



    I ask because you continually refer to my posts from before you were posting. It's difficult to reply if I don't know who I'm talking to. I'll try again. Will the real TAZ please reveal himself?

    (PS. If you were banned I won't tell anyone you've sneaked back)
    Are you on crack ? You made the comment about Mugabe and North Korea two or three months ago. I called you out at the time for it.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 2,759
    edited June 27

    Paging PB brains trust:

    I'm thinking of getting a decent pair of binoculars for sightseeing, occasional informal bird and wildlife watching. They need to be compact, light, portable and robust.

    I have some old Olympus 8 x 22 RCIIs, which are ideal from a size and lightness viewpoint (hah!) but I don't feel they are as sharp as they could be.

    Any suggestions on spec and make?

    Cheers

    Doesn't look like anyone else bit at this one, so....

    All the serious birders use Swarovskis but the price doesn't exactly fit for informal use.

    If you want a bit more middle of the range Opticron do a decent selection from basic to expensive and are a UK company (although the optics may be sourced from Japan or China depending on the model). I believe you can tell where they were made by the length of the guarantee (30 years for the more expensive models).

    It is hard to know how fussy you are so the best option is probably to turn up at a local nature reserve when they are having a demonstration day (they do many of these) and have a look through them yourself.

    https://www.opticron.co.uk/dealers-and-events

    How much do your 8x22s weigh? I think I'd find 8x22 a bit dim and instead carry a lightweight pair of 8x32s but they do a good pair of 8x24s if you definitely need something small.

    They've tweaked the range a bit since I bought mine but the Discovery ED would be roughly the equivalent now and they are perfectly adequate for me. They are light years ahead of the basic 8x21s I had before. Even the cheaper ones were miles better when I tried them out.

    If you wear glasses make sure the eye relief is big enough - I find a large eye relief makes them easier to look through even without glasses.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 41,868
    Nigelb said:

    I applaud this, even though its marketing value is obvious.

    https://twitter.com/EuromaidanPress/status/1541485319333224448
    The manufacturer of the drones Bayraktar TB2 says it will not accept payment for TB2s crowdfunded in the Ukrainian campaign "The People's Bayraktar" and will send three of its drones free of charge to Ukraine…

    Fair play to them. Defence contractor voluntarily providing free kit when there’s a war on, rather than doubling the price?

    NATO should be looking at stuff like this as well. It’s relatively basic, but does what it needs to do in the current conflict, where neither side are risking their planes.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 10,437
    Andy_JS said:

    algarkirk said:

    Leon said:

    Kotor View Update 3

    Cheers everyone!


    Was the Test Match on? And what's the Montenegrin for silly mid on?

    Montenegrin isn't included in Google Translate for some reason. It is a separate language according to Wikipedia.
    Reckon that's a political rather than linguistic decision.

    Dialectical differences for sure. But separate languages? Maybe, if you mean like English and American!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 81,242
    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    I applaud this, even though its marketing value is obvious.

    https://twitter.com/EuromaidanPress/status/1541485319333224448
    The manufacturer of the drones Bayraktar TB2 says it will not accept payment for TB2s crowdfunded in the Ukrainian campaign "The People's Bayraktar" and will send three of its drones free of charge to Ukraine…

    Fair play to them. Defence contractor voluntarily providing free kit when there’s a war on, rather than doubling the price?
    Well I suspect they'll have been or will be getting plenty of new orders anyway.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 10,962


    Doesn't look like anyone else bit at this one, so....

    All the serious birders use Swarovskis but the price doesn't exactly fit for informal use.

    If you want a bit more middle of the range Opticron do a decent selection from basic to expensive and are a UK company (although the optics may be sourced from Japan or China depending on the model). I believe you can tell where they were made by the length of the guarantee (30 years for the more expensive models).

    It is hard to know how fussy you are so the best option is probably to turn up at a local nature reserve when they are having a demonstration day (they do many of these) and have a look through them yourself.

    https://www.opticron.co.uk/dealers-and-events

    How much do your 8x22s weigh? I think I'd find 8x22 a bit dim and instead carry a lightweight pair of 8x32s but they do a good pair of 8x24s if you definitely need something small.

    They've tweaked the range a bit since I bought mine but the Discovery ED would be roughly the equivalent now and they are perfectly adequate for me. They are light years ahead of the basic 8x21s I had before.

    If you wear glasses make sure the eye relief is big enough - I find a large eye relief makes them easier to look through even without glasses.

    I'm no twitcher but I have a pair of Opticron 8x50 binoculars for horse racing. Very good and light weight and easy to adjust and use for those tracks where binoculars are essential for race watching.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 81,242

    Andy_JS said:

    algarkirk said:

    Leon said:

    Kotor View Update 3

    Cheers everyone!


    Was the Test Match on? And what's the Montenegrin for silly mid on?

    Montenegrin isn't included in Google Translate for some reason. It is a separate language according to Wikipedia.
    Reckon that's a political rather than linguistic decision.

    Dialectical differences for sure. But separate languages? Maybe, if you mean like English and American!
    Language options do frequently provide separate selections for those. An inserted u (or its absence) will drive some people to absolute despair. Color me surprised at that.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 3,347

    moonshine said:

    God is there anything more boring than people who still can’t let Brexit go and keep talking about. Including the PM.

    Let us know if God replies. THAT would be interesting ;)
    Man makes plans…God laughs
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 3,347

    CatMan said:

    Since we literally have at least one American posting on here...

    @SeaShantyIrish2 (what happened to SeaShantyIrish1?), what does the word "Queue" mean to you?!

    1. There was never a SeaShantyIrish1 that is fake news!

    2. In context, on website infested by UKers, clearly means "line" in honest American lingo. Otherwise, when seen written out without Brit context, first thing that pops into my fool head are the small pony tails once worn by salty sailors, old-school Chinese and revolting colonials.

    3. British usage is known on these shores (Pacific as well as Atlantic) but NOT copied except (maybe?) by the weirdest kind of extreme anglophile.
    I just had to zoom in and look at your avatar

    On an iPhone I thought the message on the bottom was “convict no dogs”

    That would be one hell of a campaign pledge!

  • StockyStocky Posts: 8,610

    Paging PB brains trust:

    I'm thinking of getting a decent pair of binoculars for sightseeing, occasional informal bird and wildlife watching. They need to be compact, light, portable and robust.

    I have some old Olympus 8 x 22 RCIIs, which are ideal from a size and lightness viewpoint (hah!) but I don't feel they are as sharp as they could be.

    Any suggestions on spec and make?

    Cheers

    Take a look at these - these are the travel ones I'm currently considering. Good reviews and and balance between quality and price:

    https://www.outdoorgearlab.com/reviews/camping-and-hiking/binoculars/celestron-nature-dx-8x42
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 6,547
    Foxy said:

    algarkirk said:

    Applicant said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    I for one am glad Scott_xP puts up the tweets. Obviously helps that I agree with the points he’s making, whether he is using his own words or someone else’s. We need to hear it. Because Brexit has had a massively negative impact, and will continue to do so, until we accept that and start to try and resolve it (and not by unilaterally breaking treaties we have signed). And we’re far from that point. But we’re getting there slowly.

    Stick your fingers in your ears, have a pop at Scott_xP, scroll past his posts without reading them, do whatever you feel. It won’t change the fact that gradually, steadily, inexorably, the country is realising it has been conned.

    I've felt like the country has been conned for six years. These Tweets are available on Twitter. I don't come here for syndicated Tweets. I go to Twitter for tweets. They're counterproductive because, amazingly, the poster on here who gets me most wound up about Brexit is a fellow Remainer.
    I get that. I still think it needs hammering home. Not everyone goes on Twitter.

    And even if you do, it is extremely easy to get stuck in your own Twitter circle jerk, only hearing voices you agree with. It’s Twitter’s biggest fault.

    It is good, IMHO, to have Scott’s reportage. Many will find it uncomfortable, or, like you, irritating. I still think he does a valuable service posting in the way he does.

    It's not fucking "reportage". @Scott_xP is not on the front line of Brexit, with the shrapnel of the NI Protocol whistling past his ears. It is retweeting

    The main emotion it evokes is pity for him. And intense boredom. Is that what he wants? Fair enough, but it does not adorn the site nor does it advance his cause
    I think we’re all on the front line of Brexit!

    Bless him, he’s in the digital trenches, a plucky runner risking life and limb - and perhaps sanity - to bring us, the armchair generals, blood flecked dispatches full of tales of pettifogging bureaucracy, tumbling exports and frustrated holiday makers, ruefully eyeing the EU gates.
    Mute button? Man's won the FBPE VC many times over. Remember those times he posted stuff slightly too uncooked, got a pasting, but still went over the top again.

    That's how you win wars.
    If Brexit was a war, Scotty is Hiroo Onoda.
    There’s no reason for that sort of language on here 😠.

    I think you all get too worked up by Brexit on PB. My humble view is the difference between being in and out is out now we will get a bit economically worse off in coming years, less growth, less jobs, less investment in UK - but not to some huge dramatic degree that justifies all this fuss. Even a bit financially poorer, we will still be here, there will always be an England.

    Some of you act like it wasn’t democratic or won on a fistful of lies. But you will never have evidence that’s true, so you should be polite and not mention what you can’t prove.
    We know it was won on lies - some of the leading figures in "Leave" openly said so

    https://politicsandinsights.org/2017/10/27/leave-director-admitted-the-brexit-referendum-was-won-by-lying-to-the-public/

    There are others. Thirty seconds use of Google Search will turn up plenty of references
    It was won because reman failed to make a case and Obama comments of UK at the back of the queue annoyed a lot of people

    Lies or otherwise it was a failure by the remain camp to win their case which should have been a walk in the park
    The Cameron-led Remain camp.

    I may be being paranoid, or over sensitive, but I sometimes think that when people refer to the remain camp, there’s a quiet inference that Remain = Labour.

    I could be completely wrong. I could be a frothing FBPE Remainiac. I try not to be, but you never know.

    But I do think that it is very important to remember that all three (count ‘em!) campaigns - Remain and the two Leaves - were essentially brought to you by the Tories. Or ex-Tory Ukippers.

    Yes Corbyn, yes Hoey, etc, etc. But that doesn’t change the fact that Brexit is Tory. Remain campaign, it’s faults and shortcomings - Tory. Leave, and it’s unicorn herds - Tory. The whole shitshow was.

    I hope that, to me, important point doesn’t get lost.
    Cameron and remain made a complete hash of the campaign, though it is fair to say labour did not support leave nor do they today, despite what they may say in public
    You’re right, of course. They didn’t and don’t. Or at least not the sane bits of Labour, such as they are.

    I think God must have wanted Brexit to happen. Why the hell else would s/he have made Corbyn Labour leader during the referendum?

    Still, despite that, to me it’ll always be wholly Tory - Remain, Leave, the whole stinking shitshow. Sane Labour could only play the cards they were dealt.
    Maybe God did. Perhaps not even God can make sense of something that pretends to be a state and not a state, with a Potemkin parliament, law making powers, and a central bank and single currency but no common defence policy or armed force.

    I think God understands contradictions and incompatible ideas very well. He has published several books full of such things.
    What! Was he the author of 'Language, Truth and Logic' as well as 'A Treatise of Human Nature'?

  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 19,944
    O/T

    As usual there seem to be a lot of empty seats at Wimbledon, especially on court number one where Heather Watson is playing.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 28,565
    edited June 27
    algarkirk said:

    Leon said:

    Kotor View Update 3

    Cheers everyone!


    Was the Test Match on? And what's the Montenegrin for silly mid on?


    This morning I wandered down to Old Kotor and got an excellent €10 haircut. Then I had a “Balkan breakfast” by the cathedral.

    After that I wandered about vaguely then I went to the supermarket and bought wine and Diet Coke. With my day’s work done I came back to my rented flat, viewed the wonderful cricket via VPN and drank Serbian white wine

    Then I faffed around on PB, sent 2 emails, and spent 3 hours watching the sun go down

    A great day
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 35,453

    Paging PB brains trust:

    I'm thinking of getting a decent pair of binoculars for sightseeing, occasional informal bird and wildlife watching. They need to be compact, light, portable and robust.

    I have some old Olympus 8 x 22 RCIIs, which are ideal from a size and lightness viewpoint (hah!) but I don't feel they are as sharp as they could be.

    Any suggestions on spec and make?

    Cheers

    Doesn't look like anyone else bit at this one, so....

    All the serious birders use Swarovskis but the price doesn't exactly fit for informal use.

    If you want a bit more middle of the range Opticron do a decent selection from basic to expensive and are a UK company (although the optics may be sourced from Japan or China depending on the model). I believe you can tell where they were made by the length of the guarantee (30 years for the more expensive models).

    It is hard to know how fussy you are so the best option is probably to turn up at a local nature reserve when they are having a demonstration day (they do many of these) and have a look through them yourself.

    https://www.opticron.co.uk/dealers-and-events

    How much do your 8x22s weigh? I think I'd find 8x22 a bit dim and instead carry a lightweight pair of 8x32s but they do a good pair of 8x24s if you definitely need something small.

    They've tweaked the range a bit since I bought mine but the Discovery ED would be roughly the equivalent now and they are perfectly adequate for me. They are light years ahead of the basic 8x21s I had before. Even the cheaper ones were miles better when I tried them out.

    If you wear glasses make sure the eye relief is big enough - I find a large eye relief makes them easier to look through even without glasses.
    I have some Opticrons too, and they are a good compromise between price and performance.

    I have some 8×32 that are very portable, waterproof and durable. The bigger exit diameter definitely makes for better sharpness and lowlight capability. 8× is a lot better than 10× for stability of image.

    Quite a few nature reserves have demonstration days for these and similar products, I got mine on Rutland Water, there are some good ones in N Norfolk too.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 10,437
    From Njegos, by Djilas (not other way around) -

    The land is one of utter destitution and forlorn silence. It's billowing crags engulf all that is alive and all that human hand has build and cultivated. Every sound is dashed against the jagged rock, and every ray of light is ground into gravel.

    [clearly Djilas was NOT writing on behalf of Montenegro Tourist Board]

    . . . a crucified wilderness! That is Montenegro, that is the Nahi of Katuni [homeland of Njegos]: a wilderness and a sea of stone, but one lifted high upon a confusion of peaks, gashed by canyons and gorges, and gouged by gaping precipices burrowing into stone cracked by heat and frost.

    It lacks the serenity of the desert of the spaciousness of the sea. It has some of both - but the silence is stony and the spaciousness is overhead in the endless heavens.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 35,453
    algarkirk said:

    Foxy said:

    algarkirk said:

    Applicant said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    I for one am glad Scott_xP puts up the tweets. Obviously helps that I agree with the points he’s making, whether he is using his own words or someone else’s. We need to hear it. Because Brexit has had a massively negative impact, and will continue to do so, until we accept that and start to try and resolve it (and not by unilaterally breaking treaties we have signed). And we’re far from that point. But we’re getting there slowly.

    Stick your fingers in your ears, have a pop at Scott_xP, scroll past his posts without reading them, do whatever you feel. It won’t change the fact that gradually, steadily, inexorably, the country is realising it has been conned.

    I've felt like the country has been conned for six years. These Tweets are available on Twitter. I don't come here for syndicated Tweets. I go to Twitter for tweets. They're counterproductive because, amazingly, the poster on here who gets me most wound up about Brexit is a fellow Remainer.
    I get that. I still think it needs hammering home. Not everyone goes on Twitter.

    And even if you do, it is extremely easy to get stuck in your own Twitter circle jerk, only hearing voices you agree with. It’s Twitter’s biggest fault.

    It is good, IMHO, to have Scott’s reportage. Many will find it uncomfortable, or, like you, irritating. I still think he does a valuable service posting in the way he does.

    It's not fucking "reportage". @Scott_xP is not on the front line of Brexit, with the shrapnel of the NI Protocol whistling past his ears. It is retweeting

    The main emotion it evokes is pity for him. And intense boredom. Is that what he wants? Fair enough, but it does not adorn the site nor does it advance his cause
    I think we’re all on the front line of Brexit!

    Bless him, he’s in the digital trenches, a plucky runner risking life and limb - and perhaps sanity - to bring us, the armchair generals, blood flecked dispatches full of tales of pettifogging bureaucracy, tumbling exports and frustrated holiday makers, ruefully eyeing the EU gates.
    Mute button? Man's won the FBPE VC many times over. Remember those times he posted stuff slightly too uncooked, got a pasting, but still went over the top again.

    That's how you win wars.
    If Brexit was a war, Scotty is Hiroo Onoda.
    There’s no reason for that sort of language on here 😠.

    I think you all get too worked up by Brexit on PB. My humble view is the difference between being in and out is out now we will get a bit economically worse off in coming years, less growth, less jobs, less investment in UK - but not to some huge dramatic degree that justifies all this fuss. Even a bit financially poorer, we will still be here, there will always be an England.

    Some of you act like it wasn’t democratic or won on a fistful of lies. But you will never have evidence that’s true, so you should be polite and not mention what you can’t prove.
    We know it was won on lies - some of the leading figures in "Leave" openly said so

    https://politicsandinsights.org/2017/10/27/leave-director-admitted-the-brexit-referendum-was-won-by-lying-to-the-public/

    There are others. Thirty seconds use of Google Search will turn up plenty of references
    It was won because reman failed to make a case and Obama comments of UK at the back of the queue annoyed a lot of people

    Lies or otherwise it was a failure by the remain camp to win their case which should have been a walk in the park
    The Cameron-led Remain camp.

    I may be being paranoid, or over sensitive, but I sometimes think that when people refer to the remain camp, there’s a quiet inference that Remain = Labour.

    I could be completely wrong. I could be a frothing FBPE Remainiac. I try not to be, but you never know.

    But I do think that it is very important to remember that all three (count ‘em!) campaigns - Remain and the two Leaves - were essentially brought to you by the Tories. Or ex-Tory Ukippers.

    Yes Corbyn, yes Hoey, etc, etc. But that doesn’t change the fact that Brexit is Tory. Remain campaign, it’s faults and shortcomings - Tory. Leave, and it’s unicorn herds - Tory. The whole shitshow was.

    I hope that, to me, important point doesn’t get lost.
    Cameron and remain made a complete hash of the campaign, though it is fair to say labour did not support leave nor do they today, despite what they may say in public
    You’re right, of course. They didn’t and don’t. Or at least not the sane bits of Labour, such as they are.

    I think God must have wanted Brexit to happen. Why the hell else would s/he have made Corbyn Labour leader during the referendum?

    Still, despite that, to me it’ll always be wholly Tory - Remain, Leave, the whole stinking shitshow. Sane Labour could only play the cards they were dealt.
    Maybe God did. Perhaps not even God can make sense of something that pretends to be a state and not a state, with a Potemkin parliament, law making powers, and a central bank and single currency but no common defence policy or armed force.

    I think God understands contradictions and incompatible ideas very well. He has published several books full of such things.
    What! Was he the author of 'Language, Truth and Logic' as well as 'A Treatise of Human Nature'?

    I was thinking of some of his more popular works!

    A certain mysticism is present in contradiction and paradox, though I accept it can be difficult for some minds to get to grip with.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 10,454
    Andy_JS said:

    O/T

    As usual there seem to be a lot of empty seats at Wimbledon, especially on court number one where Heather Watson is playing.

    Late now. People may well be travelling some way home.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 10,437

    CatMan said:

    Since we literally have at least one American posting on here...

    @SeaShantyIrish2 (what happened to SeaShantyIrish1?), what does the word "Queue" mean to you?!

    1. There was never a SeaShantyIrish1 that is fake news!

    2. In context, on website infested by UKers, clearly means "line" in honest American lingo. Otherwise, when seen written out without Brit context, first thing that pops into my fool head are the small pony tails once worn by salty sailors, old-school Chinese and revolting colonials.

    3. British usage is known on these shores (Pacific as well as Atlantic) but NOT copied except (maybe?) by the weirdest kind of extreme anglophile.
    I just had to zoom in and look at your avatar

    On an iPhone I thought the message on the bottom was “convict no dogs”

    That would be one hell of a campaign pledge!

    I'm certain that Eugene V. Debs would echo that sentiment. AND find your post quite amusing too.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 28,565

    From Njegos, by Djilas (not other way around) -

    The land is one of utter destitution and forlorn silence. It's billowing crags engulf all that is alive and all that human hand has build and cultivated. Every sound is dashed against the jagged rock, and every ray of light is ground into gravel.

    [clearly Djilas was NOT writing on behalf of Montenegro Tourist Board]

    . . . a crucified wilderness! That is Montenegro, that is the Nahi of Katuni [homeland of Njegos]: a wilderness and a sea of stone, but one lifted high upon a confusion of peaks, gashed by canyons and gorges, and gouged by gaping precipices burrowing into stone cracked by heat and frost.

    It lacks the serenity of the desert of the spaciousness of the sea. It has some of both - but the silence is stony and the spaciousness is overhead in the endless heavens.

    The NAHI OF KATUNI

  • maxhmaxh Posts: 146

    On smartphones and kids the only defence I'll offer is that over the lockdown period those phones and social media outlets were invaluable for kids in order to maintain contact with their friends etc. Lockdown was shit for adults but trebly so for kids and young adults.

    Though otherwise I do agree that it is a recipe for disaster, speaking as someone who saw their niece getting bullied over one of them.

    Yeah fair point, thanks, though I think I'd extend that and say they are invaluable in that context even out of lockdown. The kids that aren't on phones or social media get excluded from so much (and often are the objects of nasty discussions behind their backs.

    If social media didn't exist, though, kids would have other ways of maintaining contact.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,648
    I preferred Wimbledon when all Brits had to worry about was if Jeremy Bates would lose to a cat in round two.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 42,742
    Foxy said:

    algarkirk said:

    Applicant said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    I for one am glad Scott_xP puts up the tweets. Obviously helps that I agree with the points he’s making, whether he is using his own words or someone else’s. We need to hear it. Because Brexit has had a massively negative impact, and will continue to do so, until we accept that and start to try and resolve it (and not by unilaterally breaking treaties we have signed). And we’re far from that point. But we’re getting there slowly.

    Stick your fingers in your ears, have a pop at Scott_xP, scroll past his posts without reading them, do whatever you feel. It won’t change the fact that gradually, steadily, inexorably, the country is realising it has been conned.

    I've felt like the country has been conned for six years. These Tweets are available on Twitter. I don't come here for syndicated Tweets. I go to Twitter for tweets. They're counterproductive because, amazingly, the poster on here who gets me most wound up about Brexit is a fellow Remainer.
    I get that. I still think it needs hammering home. Not everyone goes on Twitter.

    And even if you do, it is extremely easy to get stuck in your own Twitter circle jerk, only hearing voices you agree with. It’s Twitter’s biggest fault.

    It is good, IMHO, to have Scott’s reportage. Many will find it uncomfortable, or, like you, irritating. I still think he does a valuable service posting in the way he does.

    It's not fucking "reportage". @Scott_xP is not on the front line of Brexit, with the shrapnel of the NI Protocol whistling past his ears. It is retweeting

    The main emotion it evokes is pity for him. And intense boredom. Is that what he wants? Fair enough, but it does not adorn the site nor does it advance his cause
    I think we’re all on the front line of Brexit!

    Bless him, he’s in the digital trenches, a plucky runner risking life and limb - and perhaps sanity - to bring us, the armchair generals, blood flecked dispatches full of tales of pettifogging bureaucracy, tumbling exports and frustrated holiday makers, ruefully eyeing the EU gates.
    Mute button? Man's won the FBPE VC many times over. Remember those times he posted stuff slightly too uncooked, got a pasting, but still went over the top again.

    That's how you win wars.
    If Brexit was a war, Scotty is Hiroo Onoda.
    There’s no reason for that sort of language on here 😠.

    I think you all get too worked up by Brexit on PB. My humble view is the difference between being in and out is out now we will get a bit economically worse off in coming years, less growth, less jobs, less investment in UK - but not to some huge dramatic degree that justifies all this fuss. Even a bit financially poorer, we will still be here, there will always be an England.

    Some of you act like it wasn’t democratic or won on a fistful of lies. But you will never have evidence that’s true, so you should be polite and not mention what you can’t prove.
    We know it was won on lies - some of the leading figures in "Leave" openly said so

    https://politicsandinsights.org/2017/10/27/leave-director-admitted-the-brexit-referendum-was-won-by-lying-to-the-public/

    There are others. Thirty seconds use of Google Search will turn up plenty of references
    It was won because reman failed to make a case and Obama comments of UK at the back of the queue annoyed a lot of people

    Lies or otherwise it was a failure by the remain camp to win their case which should have been a walk in the park
    The Cameron-led Remain camp.

    I may be being paranoid, or over sensitive, but I sometimes think that when people refer to the remain camp, there’s a quiet inference that Remain = Labour.

    I could be completely wrong. I could be a frothing FBPE Remainiac. I try not to be, but you never know.

    But I do think that it is very important to remember that all three (count ‘em!) campaigns - Remain and the two Leaves - were essentially brought to you by the Tories. Or ex-Tory Ukippers.

    Yes Corbyn, yes Hoey, etc, etc. But that doesn’t change the fact that Brexit is Tory. Remain campaign, it’s faults and shortcomings - Tory. Leave, and it’s unicorn herds - Tory. The whole shitshow was.

    I hope that, to me, important point doesn’t get lost.
    Cameron and remain made a complete hash of the campaign, though it is fair to say labour did not support leave nor do they today, despite what they may say in public
    You’re right, of course. They didn’t and don’t. Or at least not the sane bits of Labour, such as they are.

    I think God must have wanted Brexit to happen. Why the hell else would s/he have made Corbyn Labour leader during the referendum?

    Still, despite that, to me it’ll always be wholly Tory - Remain, Leave, the whole stinking shitshow. Sane Labour could only play the cards they were dealt.
    Maybe God did. Perhaps not even God can make sense of something that pretends to be a state and not a state, with a Potemkin parliament, law making powers, and a central bank and single currency but no common defence policy or armed force.

    I think God understands contradictions and incompatible ideas very well. He has published several books full of such things.
    Why did he (/she/it) show himself up so by making Shakespeare a better writer than himself?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 42,597
    Andy_JS said:

    algarkirk said:

    Leon said:

    Kotor View Update 3

    Cheers everyone!


    Was the Test Match on? And what's the Montenegrin for silly mid on?

    Montenegrin isn't included in Google Translate for some reason. It is a separate language according to Wikipedia.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shtokavian
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 8,508
    TimS said:

    Grant Shapps has something of Chris Packham about him.

    Grant Shapps has something a bit Grant Shapps about him 😕
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 10,437
    Nigelb said:

    I applaud this, even though its marketing value is obvious.

    https://twitter.com/EuromaidanPress/status/1541485319333224448
    The manufacturer of the drones Bayraktar TB2 says it will not accept payment for TB2s crowdfunded in the Ukrainian campaign "The People's Bayraktar" and will send three of its drones free of charge to Ukraine…

    Wonder how long it will be before you can call an 800 number, or hit a button on a website, to buy "tactical" sunglasses and "strategic" water bottles "as used by the Ukrainian Army"
  • LeonLeon Posts: 28,565

    From Njegos, by Djilas (not other way around) -

    The land is one of utter destitution and forlorn silence. It's billowing crags engulf all that is alive and all that human hand has build and cultivated. Every sound is dashed against the jagged rock, and every ray of light is ground into gravel.

    [clearly Djilas was NOT writing on behalf of Montenegro Tourist Board]

    . . . a crucified wilderness! That is Montenegro, that is the Nahi of Katuni [homeland of Njegos]: a wilderness and a sea of stone, but one lifted high upon a confusion of peaks, gashed by canyons and gorges, and gouged by gaping precipices burrowing into stone cracked by heat and frost.

    It lacks the serenity of the desert of the spaciousness of the sea. It has some of both - but the silence is stony and the spaciousness is overhead in the endless heavens.

    The NAHI OF KATUNI

  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 35,453
    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:

    algarkirk said:

    Applicant said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    I for one am glad Scott_xP puts up the tweets. Obviously helps that I agree with the points he’s making, whether he is using his own words or someone else’s. We need to hear it. Because Brexit has had a massively negative impact, and will continue to do so, until we accept that and start to try and resolve it (and not by unilaterally breaking treaties we have signed). And we’re far from that point. But we’re getting there slowly.

    Stick your fingers in your ears, have a pop at Scott_xP, scroll past his posts without reading them, do whatever you feel. It won’t change the fact that gradually, steadily, inexorably, the country is realising it has been conned.

    I've felt like the country has been conned for six years. These Tweets are available on Twitter. I don't come here for syndicated Tweets. I go to Twitter for tweets. They're counterproductive because, amazingly, the poster on here who gets me most wound up about Brexit is a fellow Remainer.
    I get that. I still think it needs hammering home. Not everyone goes on Twitter.

    And even if you do, it is extremely easy to get stuck in your own Twitter circle jerk, only hearing voices you agree with. It’s Twitter’s biggest fault.

    It is good, IMHO, to have Scott’s reportage. Many will find it uncomfortable, or, like you, irritating. I still think he does a valuable service posting in the way he does.

    It's not fucking "reportage". @Scott_xP is not on the front line of Brexit, with the shrapnel of the NI Protocol whistling past his ears. It is retweeting

    The main emotion it evokes is pity for him. And intense boredom. Is that what he wants? Fair enough, but it does not adorn the site nor does it advance his cause
    I think we’re all on the front line of Brexit!

    Bless him, he’s in the digital trenches, a plucky runner risking life and limb - and perhaps sanity - to bring us, the armchair generals, blood flecked dispatches full of tales of pettifogging bureaucracy, tumbling exports and frustrated holiday makers, ruefully eyeing the EU gates.
    Mute button? Man's won the FBPE VC many times over. Remember those times he posted stuff slightly too uncooked, got a pasting, but still went over the top again.

    That's how you win wars.
    If Brexit was a war, Scotty is Hiroo Onoda.
    There’s no reason for that sort of language on here 😠.

    I think you all get too worked up by Brexit on PB. My humble view is the difference between being in and out is out now we will get a bit economically worse off in coming years, less growth, less jobs, less investment in UK - but not to some huge dramatic degree that justifies all this fuss. Even a bit financially poorer, we will still be here, there will always be an England.

    Some of you act like it wasn’t democratic or won on a fistful of lies. But you will never have evidence that’s true, so you should be polite and not mention what you can’t prove.
    We know it was won on lies - some of the leading figures in "Leave" openly said so

    https://politicsandinsights.org/2017/10/27/leave-director-admitted-the-brexit-referendum-was-won-by-lying-to-the-public/

    There are others. Thirty seconds use of Google Search will turn up plenty of references
    It was won because reman failed to make a case and Obama comments of UK at the back of the queue annoyed a lot of people

    Lies or otherwise it was a failure by the remain camp to win their case which should have been a walk in the park
    The Cameron-led Remain camp.

    I may be being paranoid, or over sensitive, but I sometimes think that when people refer to the remain camp, there’s a quiet inference that Remain = Labour.

    I could be completely wrong. I could be a frothing FBPE Remainiac. I try not to be, but you never know.

    But I do think that it is very important to remember that all three (count ‘em!) campaigns - Remain and the two Leaves - were essentially brought to you by the Tories. Or ex-Tory Ukippers.

    Yes Corbyn, yes Hoey, etc, etc. But that doesn’t change the fact that Brexit is Tory. Remain campaign, it’s faults and shortcomings - Tory. Leave, and it’s unicorn herds - Tory. The whole shitshow was.

    I hope that, to me, important point doesn’t get lost.
    Cameron and remain made a complete hash of the campaign, though it is fair to say labour did not support leave nor do they today, despite what they may say in public
    You’re right, of course. They didn’t and don’t. Or at least not the sane bits of Labour, such as they are.

    I think God must have wanted Brexit to happen. Why the hell else would s/he have made Corbyn Labour leader during the referendum?

    Still, despite that, to me it’ll always be wholly Tory - Remain, Leave, the whole stinking shitshow. Sane Labour could only play the cards they were dealt.
    Maybe God did. Perhaps not even God can make sense of something that pretends to be a state and not a state, with a Potemkin parliament, law making powers, and a central bank and single currency but no common defence policy or armed force.

    I think God understands contradictions and incompatible ideas very well. He has published several books full of such things.
    Why did he (/she/it) show himself up so by making Shakespeare a better writer than himself?
    He moves in mysterious ways...
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 2,958
    edited June 27

    I preferred Wimbledon when all Brits had to worry about was if Jeremy Bates would lose to a cat in round two.

    I seem to remember in particular one year not being terribly surprised when he got to match point to win comfortably in straight sets in an early round and then contrived to lose the match in in the fifth set.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 35,453
    edited June 27

    TimS said:

    Grant Shapps has something of Chris Packham about him.

    Grant Shapps has something a bit Grant Shapps about him 😕
    Actually, Grant Shapps is quite often someone else, isn't he?
  • maxhmaxh Posts: 146
    Sandpit said:

    maxh said:

    Sandpit said:

    maxh said:

    OT: After a particularly trying day at school, particularly in relation to students' use of snapchat to bully other students, I am really interested in anyone on here who would defend the current accessibility of smartphones and social media to teenagers.

    If it were up to me, in my current mood, I'd ban any smartphone or social media accounts for anyone under 18. I'm aware that I'm frustrated, and probably not seeing all sides of the debate, so would be really interested in anyone who is prepared to argue in favour of the status quo (kids between the ages of 12 and 18 having smartphones and social media accounts).

    As an aside, I am not normally in favour of state interference in the private lives of citizens, including kids, and would very much like this to be an issue that parents were empowered to take action on themselves. But I egularly speak to parents who feel powerless to do anything other than follow the crowd by giving kids smartphones, to avoid the kid being excluded from friendship circles.

    You’re completely right, schools need to step in and ban smartphones, and social media companies need to stop people under 16 from signing up.

    Here’s psycology professor Jonathan Haidt, discussing this very issue. The social media business model of creating ‘engagement’ for advertisers is fundamentally incompatible with teenagers’ developing brains.
    https://youtube.com/watch?v=f0un-l1L8Zw#
    Thanks for the reply.
    The problem is, schools banning smartphones only works in school (I know, we have done it, to the immense relief of most of the students). It just transfers the problem out of the school gates. The worst is the kid at home alone at night reading stuff about them, which regularly happens. Parents can of course regulate some of this - but imo its not enough.
    Yes, parents need to be involved, and sadly many of them don’t understand nor care particularly, until their child is affected by problems of bullying or internet adddiction. Modern smartphones have good parental controls if set up properly, so the kids can have them for an hour or two in the evening, but not at night or at school.

    The issue of kids signing up to social media accounts is probably going to have to be by legislation, because Facebook and TikTok won’t be doing it voluntarily. There’s a bi-partisan movement in the US pushing for this, led by academic research and psychologists such as Prof Haidt, it would be good to see a similar movement elsewhere.

    (I’m an IT professional who has presented to parents and pupils on this subject).
    Thanks @Sandpit - informative. I think I agree - what you say balances family autonomy with state interference.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 28,565
    edited June 27
    Of all the people whose Brexit opinions I don’t give a fuck about, Remainer Teresa, AKA Teresa “red lines” May, is perhaps the most dont-give-a-fuck-about-able

    She’s one of the MAIN reasons Brexit was so painful
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,648
    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:

    algarkirk said:

    Applicant said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    I for one am glad Scott_xP puts up the tweets. Obviously helps that I agree with the points he’s making, whether he is using his own words or someone else’s. We need to hear it. Because Brexit has had a massively negative impact, and will continue to do so, until we accept that and start to try and resolve it (and not by unilaterally breaking treaties we have signed). And we’re far from that point. But we’re getting there slowly.

    Stick your fingers in your ears, have a pop at Scott_xP, scroll past his posts without reading them, do whatever you feel. It won’t change the fact that gradually, steadily, inexorably, the country is realising it has been conned.

    I've felt like the country has been conned for six years. These Tweets are available on Twitter. I don't come here for syndicated Tweets. I go to Twitter for tweets. They're counterproductive because, amazingly, the poster on here who gets me most wound up about Brexit is a fellow Remainer.
    I get that. I still think it needs hammering home. Not everyone goes on Twitter.

    And even if you do, it is extremely easy to get stuck in your own Twitter circle jerk, only hearing voices you agree with. It’s Twitter’s biggest fault.

    It is good, IMHO, to have Scott’s reportage. Many will find it uncomfortable, or, like you, irritating. I still think he does a valuable service posting in the way he does.

    It's not fucking "reportage". @Scott_xP is not on the front line of Brexit, with the shrapnel of the NI Protocol whistling past his ears. It is retweeting

    The main emotion it evokes is pity for him. And intense boredom. Is that what he wants? Fair enough, but it does not adorn the site nor does it advance his cause
    I think we’re all on the front line of Brexit!

    Bless him, he’s in the digital trenches, a plucky runner risking life and limb - and perhaps sanity - to bring us, the armchair generals, blood flecked dispatches full of tales of pettifogging bureaucracy, tumbling exports and frustrated holiday makers, ruefully eyeing the EU gates.
    Mute button? Man's won the FBPE VC many times over. Remember those times he posted stuff slightly too uncooked, got a pasting, but still went over the top again.

    That's how you win wars.
    If Brexit was a war, Scotty is Hiroo Onoda.
    There’s no reason for that sort of language on here 😠.

    I think you all get too worked up by Brexit on PB. My humble view is the difference between being in and out is out now we will get a bit economically worse off in coming years, less growth, less jobs, less investment in UK - but not to some huge dramatic degree that justifies all this fuss. Even a bit financially poorer, we will still be here, there will always be an England.

    Some of you act like it wasn’t democratic or won on a fistful of lies. But you will never have evidence that’s true, so you should be polite and not mention what you can’t prove.
    We know it was won on lies - some of the leading figures in "Leave" openly said so

    https://politicsandinsights.org/2017/10/27/leave-director-admitted-the-brexit-referendum-was-won-by-lying-to-the-public/

    There are others. Thirty seconds use of Google Search will turn up plenty of references
    It was won because reman failed to make a case and Obama comments of UK at the back of the queue annoyed a lot of people

    Lies or otherwise it was a failure by the remain camp to win their case which should have been a walk in the park
    The Cameron-led Remain camp.

    I may be being paranoid, or over sensitive, but I sometimes think that when people refer to the remain camp, there’s a quiet inference that Remain = Labour.

    I could be completely wrong. I could be a frothing FBPE Remainiac. I try not to be, but you never know.

    But I do think that it is very important to remember that all three (count ‘em!) campaigns - Remain and the two Leaves - were essentially brought to you by the Tories. Or ex-Tory Ukippers.

    Yes Corbyn, yes Hoey, etc, etc. But that doesn’t change the fact that Brexit is Tory. Remain campaign, it’s faults and shortcomings - Tory. Leave, and it’s unicorn herds - Tory. The whole shitshow was.

    I hope that, to me, important point doesn’t get lost.
    Cameron and remain made a complete hash of the campaign, though it is fair to say labour did not support leave nor do they today, despite what they may say in public
    You’re right, of course. They didn’t and don’t. Or at least not the sane bits of Labour, such as they are.

    I think God must have wanted Brexit to happen. Why the hell else would s/he have made Corbyn Labour leader during the referendum?

    Still, despite that, to me it’ll always be wholly Tory - Remain, Leave, the whole stinking shitshow. Sane Labour could only play the cards they were dealt.
    Maybe God did. Perhaps not even God can make sense of something that pretends to be a state and not a state, with a Potemkin parliament, law making powers, and a central bank and single currency but no common defence policy or armed force.

    I think God understands contradictions and incompatible ideas very well. He has published several books full of such things.
    Why did he (/she/it) show himself up so by making Shakespeare a better writer than himself?
    A modest and humble God, of course.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    hawke binoculars 8x42 or 8 x30


    That is all
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 35,453
    maxh said:

    On smartphones and kids the only defence I'll offer is that over the lockdown period those phones and social media outlets were invaluable for kids in order to maintain contact with their friends etc. Lockdown was shit for adults but trebly so for kids and young adults.

    Though otherwise I do agree that it is a recipe for disaster, speaking as someone who saw their niece getting bullied over one of them.

    Yeah fair point, thanks, though I think I'd extend that and say they are invaluable in that context even out of lockdown. The kids that aren't on phones or social media get excluded from so much (and often are the objects of nasty discussions behind their backs.

    If social media didn't exist, though, kids would have other ways of maintaining contact.
    On the other hand, smartphones are a large part of the reason that teenage pregnancies and smoking have plunged.

    Teenage pregnancies are down by 75% over the last 25 years. Smartphones give them something else to do with their hands!
This discussion has been closed.