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The data the advocates of a “progressive alliance” ignore – politicalbetting.com

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  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    edited June 2022

    I preferred Wimbledon when all Brits had to worry about was if Jeremy Bates would lose to a cat in round two.

    I seem to remember in particular one year not being terribly surprised when he got to match point to win comfortably in straight sets in an early round and then contrived to lose the match in in the fifth set.
    Vs Cedric Pioline (a not too impressive frenchman). Actually fourth set (2-1 up) 5-4 40-30 match point to reach the quarters.
    First serve landed in Greenwich, second serve was a gimme return to deuce. Lost in fifth set, women kinda fancied him then that little posh twat Henman rocked up and they had a new loser to cream themslves over.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,994

    TimS said:

    Grant Shapps has something of Chris Packham about him.

    I take it that you don't see that as a good thing?
    I’m perfectly neutral about Chris Packham. Not a fan of Grant Shapps mind. But there is a kind of resemblance.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,913

    Applicant said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    I for one am glad Scott_xP puts up the tweets. Obviously helps that I agree with the points he’s making, whether he is using his own words or someone else’s. We need to hear it. Because Brexit has had a massively negative impact, and will continue to do so, until we accept that and start to try and resolve it (and not by unilaterally breaking treaties we have signed). And we’re far from that point. But we’re getting there slowly.

    Stick your fingers in your ears, have a pop at Scott_xP, scroll past his posts without reading them, do whatever you feel. It won’t change the fact that gradually, steadily, inexorably, the country is realising it has been conned.

    I've felt like the country has been conned for six years. These Tweets are available on Twitter. I don't come here for syndicated Tweets. I go to Twitter for tweets. They're counterproductive because, amazingly, the poster on here who gets me most wound up about Brexit is a fellow Remainer.
    I get that. I still think it needs hammering home. Not everyone goes on Twitter.

    And even if you do, it is extremely easy to get stuck in your own Twitter circle jerk, only hearing voices you agree with. It’s Twitter’s biggest fault.

    It is good, IMHO, to have Scott’s reportage. Many will find it uncomfortable, or, like you, irritating. I still think he does a valuable service posting in the way he does.

    It's not fucking "reportage". @Scott_xP is not on the front line of Brexit, with the shrapnel of the NI Protocol whistling past his ears. It is retweeting

    The main emotion it evokes is pity for him. And intense boredom. Is that what he wants? Fair enough, but it does not adorn the site nor does it advance his cause
    I think we’re all on the front line of Brexit!

    Bless him, he’s in the digital trenches, a plucky runner risking life and limb - and perhaps sanity - to bring us, the armchair generals, blood flecked dispatches full of tales of pettifogging bureaucracy, tumbling exports and frustrated holiday makers, ruefully eyeing the EU gates.
    Mute button? Man's won the FBPE VC many times over. Remember those times he posted stuff slightly too uncooked, got a pasting, but still went over the top again.

    That's how you win wars.
    If Brexit was a war, Scotty is Hiroo Onoda.
    There’s no reason for that sort of language on here 😠.

    I think you all get too worked up by Brexit on PB. My humble view is the difference between being in and out is out now we will get a bit economically worse off in coming years, less growth, less jobs, less investment in UK - but not to some huge dramatic degree that justifies all this fuss. Even a bit financially poorer, we will still be here, there will always be an England.

    Some of you act like it wasn’t democratic or won on a fistful of lies. But you will never have evidence that’s true, so you should be polite and not mention what you can’t prove.
    We know it was won on lies - some of the leading figures in "Leave" openly said so

    https://politicsandinsights.org/2017/10/27/leave-director-admitted-the-brexit-referendum-was-won-by-lying-to-the-public/

    There are others. Thirty seconds use of Google Search will turn up plenty of references
    It was won because reman failed to make a case and Obama comments of UK at the back of the queue annoyed a lot of people

    Lies or otherwise it was a failure by the remain camp to win their case which should have been a walk in the park
    The Cameron-led Remain camp.

    I may be being paranoid, or over sensitive, but I sometimes think that when people refer to the remain camp, there’s a quiet inference that Remain = Labour.

    I could be completely wrong. I could be a frothing FBPE Remainiac. I try not to be, but you never know.

    But I do think that it is very important to remember that all three (count ‘em!) campaigns - Remain and the two Leaves - were essentially brought to you by the Tories. Or ex-Tory Ukippers.

    Yes Corbyn, yes Hoey, etc, etc. But that doesn’t change the fact that Brexit is Tory. Remain campaign, it’s faults and shortcomings - Tory. Leave, and it’s unicorn herds - Tory. The whole shitshow was.

    I hope that, to me, important point doesn’t get lost.
    Cameron and remain made a complete hash of the campaign, though it is fair to say labour did not support leave nor do they today, despite what they may say in public
    You’re right, of course. They didn’t and don’t. Or at least not the sane bits of Labour, such as they are.

    I think God must have wanted Brexit to happen. Why the hell else would s/he have made Corbyn Labour leader during the referendum?

    Still, despite that, to me it’ll always be wholly Tory - Remain, Leave, the whole stinking shitshow. Sane Labour could only play the cards they were dealt.
    Of all the things that are annoying about Brexit having Corbyn sitting on his hands throughout the whole campaign comes pretty close to the top
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,705

    I preferred Wimbledon when all Brits had to worry about was if Jeremy Bates would lose to a cat in round two.

    I seem to remember in particular one year not being terribly surprised when he got to match point to win comfortably in straight sets in an early round and then contrived to lose the match in in the fifth set.
    Vs Cedric Pioline (a not too impressive frenchman). Actually fourth set (2-1 up) 5-4 40-30 match point to reach the quarters.
    First serve landed in Greenwich, second serve was a gimme return to deuce. Lost in fifth set, women kinda fancied him then that little posh twat Henman rocked up and they had a new loser to cream themslves over.
    Ah, good detail there. Obviously I mis-remembered it, or more likely I didn't actually watch it because watching Bates play wasn't much fun, and just heard he'd lost it from a near winning position.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    edited June 2022
    Leon said:

    From Njegos, by Djilas (not other way around) -

    The land is one of utter destitution and forlorn silence. It's billowing crags engulf all that is alive and all that human hand has build and cultivated. Every sound is dashed against the jagged rock, and every ray of light is ground into gravel.

    [clearly Djilas was NOT writing on behalf of Montenegro Tourist Board]

    . . . a crucified wilderness! That is Montenegro, that is the Nahi of Katuni [homeland of Njegos]: a wilderness and a sea of stone, but one lifted high upon a confusion of peaks, gashed by canyons and gorges, and gouged by gaping precipices burrowing into stone cracked by heat and frost.

    It lacks the serenity of the desert of the spaciousness of the sea. It has some of both - but the silence is stony and the spaciousness is overhead in the endless heavens.

    The NAHI OF KATUNI

    Just up and over the hill from where you are.

    Or prit near, as they say in another place (but without a sea coast) where "Mountaineers Are Always Free"
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,135

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    EPG said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Anyway my two favourite poems are:

    1. The Owl and the Pussycat, which I used to recite to the children when they were little at bedtime.
    2. An Irish Airman Foresees His Death.

    I know that I shall meet my fate
    Somewhere among the clouds above;
    Those that I fight I do not hate,
    Those that I guard I do not love;
    My country is Kiltartan Cross,
    My countrymen Kiltartan’s poor,
    No likely end could bring them loss
    Or leave them happier than before.
    Nor law, nor duty bade me fight,
    Nor public men, nor cheering crowds,
    A lonely impulse of delight
    Drove to this tumult in the clouds;
    I balanced all, brought all to mind,
    The years to come seemed waste of breath,
    A waste of breath the years behind
    In balance with this life, this death.

    I love the Lake Isle of Innisfree and The Second Coming by him too.

    Andrew Marvell's To His Coy Mistress is a marvel too.

    I love poetry. It's music through words.

    For me, having tried a lot of poetry and now like almost none of it, one of the few I'll still remember and like is his "In Memory of Eva Gore-Booth and Con Markievicz".
    Definite theme here. Remoaners don't like poetry. They are quintessentially middlebrow
    Leon said:

    EPG said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Anyway my two favourite poems are:

    1. The Owl and the Pussycat, which I used to recite to the children when they were little at bedtime.
    2. An Irish Airman Foresees His Death.

    I know that I shall meet my fate
    Somewhere among the clouds above;
    Those that I fight I do not hate,
    Those that I guard I do not love;
    My country is Kiltartan Cross,
    My countrymen Kiltartan’s poor,
    No likely end could bring them loss
    Or leave them happier than before.
    Nor law, nor duty bade me fight,
    Nor public men, nor cheering crowds,
    A lonely impulse of delight
    Drove to this tumult in the clouds;
    I balanced all, brought all to mind,
    The years to come seemed waste of breath,
    A waste of breath the years behind
    In balance with this life, this death.

    I love the Lake Isle of Innisfree and The Second Coming by him too.

    Andrew Marvell's To His Coy Mistress is a marvel too.

    I love poetry. It's music through words.

    For me, having tried a lot of poetry and now like almost none of it, one of the few I'll still remember and like is his "In Memory of Eva Gore-Booth and Con Markievicz".
    Definite theme here. Remoaners don't like poetry. They are quintessentially middlebrow
    Like you I love This Be The Verse. The only poem I can quote from memory. Good job it’s short.

    I’m not a huge fan of poetry but I do have a soft spot for Charles Bukowski. I like his prose too:

    "There's nothing to mourn about death any more than there is to mourn about the growing of a flower. What is terrible is not death but the lives people live or don't live up until their death. They don't honor their own lives, they piss on their lives. They shit them away. Dumb fuckers. They concentrate too much on fucking, movies, money, family, fucking. Their minds are full of cotton. They swallow God without thinking, they swallow country without thinking. Soon they forget how to think, they let others think for them. Their brains are stuffed with cotton. They look ugly, they talk ugly, they walk ugly. Play them the great music of the centuries and they can't hear it. Most people's deaths are a sham. There's nothing left to die."

    Sounds a miserable, judgey fncker to me.
    He certainly was quite a character. Definitely a misanthrope. One for the angry disaffected young men. As I was when I was introduced to him. By an angry disaffected young man.

    He lived a life though, Bukowski, I’ll give him that.
    I have lots of his books. A great writer imo - and I'm a cheerful settled old man.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,497
    Foxy said:

    algarkirk said:

    Foxy said:

    algarkirk said:

    Applicant said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    I for one am glad Scott_xP puts up the tweets. Obviously helps that I agree with the points he’s making, whether he is using his own words or someone else’s. We need to hear it. Because Brexit has had a massively negative impact, and will continue to do so, until we accept that and start to try and resolve it (and not by unilaterally breaking treaties we have signed). And we’re far from that point. But we’re getting there slowly.

    Stick your fingers in your ears, have a pop at Scott_xP, scroll past his posts without reading them, do whatever you feel. It won’t change the fact that gradually, steadily, inexorably, the country is realising it has been conned.

    I've felt like the country has been conned for six years. These Tweets are available on Twitter. I don't come here for syndicated Tweets. I go to Twitter for tweets. They're counterproductive because, amazingly, the poster on here who gets me most wound up about Brexit is a fellow Remainer.
    I get that. I still think it needs hammering home. Not everyone goes on Twitter.

    And even if you do, it is extremely easy to get stuck in your own Twitter circle jerk, only hearing voices you agree with. It’s Twitter’s biggest fault.

    It is good, IMHO, to have Scott’s reportage. Many will find it uncomfortable, or, like you, irritating. I still think he does a valuable service posting in the way he does.

    It's not fucking "reportage". @Scott_xP is not on the front line of Brexit, with the shrapnel of the NI Protocol whistling past his ears. It is retweeting

    The main emotion it evokes is pity for him. And intense boredom. Is that what he wants? Fair enough, but it does not adorn the site nor does it advance his cause
    I think we’re all on the front line of Brexit!

    Bless him, he’s in the digital trenches, a plucky runner risking life and limb - and perhaps sanity - to bring us, the armchair generals, blood flecked dispatches full of tales of pettifogging bureaucracy, tumbling exports and frustrated holiday makers, ruefully eyeing the EU gates.
    Mute button? Man's won the FBPE VC many times over. Remember those times he posted stuff slightly too uncooked, got a pasting, but still went over the top again.

    That's how you win wars.
    If Brexit was a war, Scotty is Hiroo Onoda.
    There’s no reason for that sort of language on here 😠.

    I think you all get too worked up by Brexit on PB. My humble view is the difference between being in and out is out now we will get a bit economically worse off in coming years, less growth, less jobs, less investment in UK - but not to some huge dramatic degree that justifies all this fuss. Even a bit financially poorer, we will still be here, there will always be an England.

    Some of you act like it wasn’t democratic or won on a fistful of lies. But you will never have evidence that’s true, so you should be polite and not mention what you can’t prove.
    We know it was won on lies - some of the leading figures in "Leave" openly said so

    https://politicsandinsights.org/2017/10/27/leave-director-admitted-the-brexit-referendum-was-won-by-lying-to-the-public/

    There are others. Thirty seconds use of Google Search will turn up plenty of references
    It was won because reman failed to make a case and Obama comments of UK at the back of the queue annoyed a lot of people

    Lies or otherwise it was a failure by the remain camp to win their case which should have been a walk in the park
    The Cameron-led Remain camp.

    I may be being paranoid, or over sensitive, but I sometimes think that when people refer to the remain camp, there’s a quiet inference that Remain = Labour.

    I could be completely wrong. I could be a frothing FBPE Remainiac. I try not to be, but you never know.

    But I do think that it is very important to remember that all three (count ‘em!) campaigns - Remain and the two Leaves - were essentially brought to you by the Tories. Or ex-Tory Ukippers.

    Yes Corbyn, yes Hoey, etc, etc. But that doesn’t change the fact that Brexit is Tory. Remain campaign, it’s faults and shortcomings - Tory. Leave, and it’s unicorn herds - Tory. The whole shitshow was.

    I hope that, to me, important point doesn’t get lost.
    Cameron and remain made a complete hash of the campaign, though it is fair to say labour did not support leave nor do they today, despite what they may say in public
    You’re right, of course. They didn’t and don’t. Or at least not the sane bits of Labour, such as they are.

    I think God must have wanted Brexit to happen. Why the hell else would s/he have made Corbyn Labour leader during the referendum?

    Still, despite that, to me it’ll always be wholly Tory - Remain, Leave, the whole stinking shitshow. Sane Labour could only play the cards they were dealt.
    Maybe God did. Perhaps not even God can make sense of something that pretends to be a state and not a state, with a Potemkin parliament, law making powers, and a central bank and single currency but no common defence policy or armed force.

    I think God understands contradictions and incompatible ideas very well. He has published several books full of such things.
    What! Was he the author of 'Language, Truth and Logic' as well as 'A Treatise of Human Nature'?

    I was thinking of some of his more popular works!

    A certain mysticism is present in contradiction and paradox, though I accept it can be difficult for some minds to get to grip with.
    Without thesis and antithesis there is no synthesis, and no Hegel.

    Anyway, some Biblical contradictions are fantastic and creative. Try the ones in in 'Carmen Christi' passage in Philippians 2. God as slave/servant. Absolutely formative of how we understand the role of power in the liberal democratic world. ('Minister' 'Civil servant').

  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,506
    Foxy said:

    TimS said:

    Grant Shapps has something of Chris Packham about him.

    Grant Shapps has something a bit Grant Shapps about him 😕
    Actually, Grant Shapps is quite often someone else, isn't he?
    I think he’d make a great photocopier sales rep - hit it out the park. 🙂
  • maxhmaxh Posts: 1,224
    Foxy said:

    maxh said:

    On smartphones and kids the only defence I'll offer is that over the lockdown period those phones and social media outlets were invaluable for kids in order to maintain contact with their friends etc. Lockdown was shit for adults but trebly so for kids and young adults.

    Though otherwise I do agree that it is a recipe for disaster, speaking as someone who saw their niece getting bullied over one of them.

    Yeah fair point, thanks, though I think I'd extend that and say they are invaluable in that context even out of lockdown. The kids that aren't on phones or social media get excluded from so much (and often are the objects of nasty discussions behind their backs.

    If social media didn't exist, though, kids would have other ways of maintaining contact.
    On the other hand, smartphones are a large part of the reason that teenage pregnancies and smoking have plunged.

    Teenage pregnancies are down by 75% over the last 25 years. Smartphones give them something else to do with their hands!
    I feel there must be a sensible mjddle-ground somewhere :smile:
    Thanks for the replies @Foxy
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    edited June 2022

    I preferred Wimbledon when all Brits had to worry about was if Jeremy Bates would lose to a cat in round two.

    I seem to remember in particular one year not being terribly surprised when he got to match point to win comfortably in straight sets in an early round and then contrived to lose the match in in the fifth set.
    Vs Cedric Pioline (a not too impressive frenchman). Actually fourth set (2-1 up) 5-4 40-30 match point to reach the quarters.
    First serve landed in Greenwich, second serve was a gimme return to deuce. Lost in fifth set, women kinda fancied him then that little posh twat Henman rocked up and they had a new loser to cream themslves over.
    Ah, good detail there. Obviously I mis-remembered it, or more likely I didn't actually watch it because watching Bates play wasn't much fun, and just heard he'd lost it from a near winning position.
    That he was British number 1 for 5 years sums up the tragedy of British Mens Tennis in the 80s snd early 90s.
    He reached round 2 of the US Open once in 7 attempts and won 1 career singles title with a ranking high of 54.
    I had a wank one June and passed him in the rankings.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,486

    I preferred Wimbledon when all Brits had to worry about was if Jeremy Bates would lose to a cat in round two.

    I seem to remember in particular one year not being terribly surprised when he got to match point to win comfortably in straight sets in an early round and then contrived to lose the match in in the fifth set.
    Vs Cedric Pioline (a not too impressive frenchman). Actually fourth set (2-1 up) 5-4 40-30 match point to reach the quarters.
    First serve landed in Greenwich, second serve was a gimme return to deuce. Lost in fifth set, women kinda fancied him then that little posh twat Henman rocked up and they had a new loser to cream themslves over.
    Ah, good detail there. Obviously I mis-remembered it, or more likely I didn't actually watch it because watching Bates play wasn't much fun, and just heard he'd lost it from a near winning position.
    That he was British number 1 for 5 years sums up the tragedy of British Mens Tennis in the 80s snd early 90s.
    He reached round 2 of the US Open once
    in 7 attempts and won 1 career singles title with a ranking high of 54.

    I had a wank one June and passed him in
    the rankings.
    So you were the master of bates that June

  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,506
    edited June 2022

    kle4 said:

    Well now.

    And as Tory MPs look increasingly over Boris Johnson's shoulder, some are now talking up @grantshapps as their next leader.

    Tonight's #WaughOnPolitics is in your inbox


    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1541489755782844419

    Bored journalist. 'Who has not had a piece done on them as next PM?'
    'Shapps'
    'Fuck, really? Oh well, i'll give it a go'
    This is the bit of the script where they bring in Claire Ballentine for a chat about running for leader I think.
    Its Dehenna time. I know it, you know it, the whole damn world knows it.
    We do?!

    I thought I'd see who the youngest Tory MP was if they were looking for a real generation shift. It's interesting how stable the average age of MPs has been since at least 1979 - no higher than 51.2, no lower than 48.8 (in 1983).

    https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/house-of-commons-trends-the-age-of-mps/
    I'm kidding but she will be leader in a decade.
    You are absolutely right again Woolie, Dehenna is the best there is. Anyone who think Penny Mourdant is better than Dehenna just don’t have a clue what voters go for.



  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,278
    edited June 2022
    Kotor View Update 4 (and final)




  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,497
    Roger said:

    Applicant said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    I for one am glad Scott_xP puts up the tweets. Obviously helps that I agree with the points he’s making, whether he is using his own words or someone else’s. We need to hear it. Because Brexit has had a massively negative impact, and will continue to do so, until we accept that and start to try and resolve it (and not by unilaterally breaking treaties we have signed). And we’re far from that point. But we’re getting there slowly.

    Stick your fingers in your ears, have a pop at Scott_xP, scroll past his posts without reading them, do whatever you feel. It won’t change the fact that gradually, steadily, inexorably, the country is realising it has been conned.

    I've felt like the country has been conned for six years. These Tweets are available on Twitter. I don't come here for syndicated Tweets. I go to Twitter for tweets. They're counterproductive because, amazingly, the poster on here who gets me most wound up about Brexit is a fellow Remainer.
    I get that. I still think it needs hammering home. Not everyone goes on Twitter.

    And even if you do, it is extremely easy to get stuck in your own Twitter circle jerk, only hearing voices you agree with. It’s Twitter’s biggest fault.

    It is good, IMHO, to have Scott’s reportage. Many will find it uncomfortable, or, like you, irritating. I still think he does a valuable service posting in the way he does.

    It's not fucking "reportage". @Scott_xP is not on the front line of Brexit, with the shrapnel of the NI Protocol whistling past his ears. It is retweeting

    The main emotion it evokes is pity for him. And intense boredom. Is that what he wants? Fair enough, but it does not adorn the site nor does it advance his cause
    I think we’re all on the front line of Brexit!

    Bless him, he’s in the digital trenches, a plucky runner risking life and limb - and perhaps sanity - to bring us, the armchair generals, blood flecked dispatches full of tales of pettifogging bureaucracy, tumbling exports and frustrated holiday makers, ruefully eyeing the EU gates.
    Mute button? Man's won the FBPE VC many times over. Remember those times he posted stuff slightly too uncooked, got a pasting, but still went over the top again.

    That's how you win wars.
    If Brexit was a war, Scotty is Hiroo Onoda.
    There’s no reason for that sort of language on here 😠.

    I think you all get too worked up by Brexit on PB. My humble view is the difference between being in and out is out now we will get a bit economically worse off in coming years, less growth, less jobs, less investment in UK - but not to some huge dramatic degree that justifies all this fuss. Even a bit financially poorer, we will still be here, there will always be an England.

    Some of you act like it wasn’t democratic or won on a fistful of lies. But you will never have evidence that’s true, so you should be polite and not mention what you can’t prove.
    We know it was won on lies - some of the leading figures in "Leave" openly said so

    https://politicsandinsights.org/2017/10/27/leave-director-admitted-the-brexit-referendum-was-won-by-lying-to-the-public/

    There are others. Thirty seconds use of Google Search will turn up plenty of references
    It was won because reman failed to make a case and Obama comments of UK at the back of the queue annoyed a lot of people

    Lies or otherwise it was a failure by the remain camp to win their case which should have been a walk in the park
    The Cameron-led Remain camp.

    I may be being paranoid, or over sensitive, but I sometimes think that when people refer to the remain camp, there’s a quiet inference that Remain = Labour.

    I could be completely wrong. I could be a frothing FBPE Remainiac. I try not to be, but you never know.

    But I do think that it is very important to remember that all three (count ‘em!) campaigns - Remain and the two Leaves - were essentially brought to you by the Tories. Or ex-Tory Ukippers.

    Yes Corbyn, yes Hoey, etc, etc. But that doesn’t change the fact that Brexit is Tory. Remain campaign, it’s faults and shortcomings - Tory. Leave, and it’s unicorn herds - Tory. The whole shitshow was.

    I hope that, to me, important point doesn’t get lost.
    Cameron and remain made a complete hash of the campaign, though it is fair to say labour did not support leave nor do they today, despite what they may say in public
    You’re right, of course. They didn’t and don’t. Or at least not the sane bits of Labour, such as they are.

    I think God must have wanted Brexit to happen. Why the hell else would s/he have made Corbyn Labour leader during the referendum?

    Still, despite that, to me it’ll always be wholly Tory - Remain, Leave, the whole stinking shitshow. Sane Labour could only play the cards they were dealt.
    Of all the things that are annoying about Brexit having Corbyn sitting on his hands throughout the whole campaign comes pretty close to the top
    I found it rather charming. Corbyn all his life has been opposed to the EU on the simple basis that it is a pro capitalist anti socialist bankers' conspiracy. He had a long enough memory to recall that Labour had been opposed to membership at certain periods.

    As far as it goes Corbyn's view was correct. Whether that makes it bad is a matter of opinion. For myself I think it is bad for other reasons.

    But where Corbyn and the proper left and I agree is that the UK can be socialist if we want to be and that that's a matter for UK voters.

    I don't think it is possible to be properly socialist in the EU.

    What Corbyn should have done is have the courage to say what he thought and why. A lot of non-left people would have understood.

  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    algarkirk said:

    Roger said:

    Applicant said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    I for one am glad Scott_xP puts up the tweets. Obviously helps that I agree with the points he’s making, whether he is using his own words or someone else’s. We need to hear it. Because Brexit has had a massively negative impact, and will continue to do so, until we accept that and start to try and resolve it (and not by unilaterally breaking treaties we have signed). And we’re far from that point. But we’re getting there slowly.

    Stick your fingers in your ears, have a pop at Scott_xP, scroll past his posts without reading them, do whatever you feel. It won’t change the fact that gradually, steadily, inexorably, the country is realising it has been conned.

    I've felt like the country has been conned for six years. These Tweets are available on Twitter. I don't come here for syndicated Tweets. I go to Twitter for tweets. They're counterproductive because, amazingly, the poster on here who gets me most wound up about Brexit is a fellow Remainer.
    I get that. I still think it needs hammering home. Not everyone goes on Twitter.

    And even if you do, it is extremely easy to get stuck in your own Twitter circle jerk, only hearing voices you agree with. It’s Twitter’s biggest fault.

    It is good, IMHO, to have Scott’s reportage. Many will find it uncomfortable, or, like you, irritating. I still think he does a valuable service posting in the way he does.

    It's not fucking "reportage". @Scott_xP is not on the front line of Brexit, with the shrapnel of the NI Protocol whistling past his ears. It is retweeting

    The main emotion it evokes is pity for him. And intense boredom. Is that what he wants? Fair enough, but it does not adorn the site nor does it advance his cause
    I think we’re all on the front line of Brexit!

    Bless him, he’s in the digital trenches, a plucky runner risking life and limb - and perhaps sanity - to bring us, the armchair generals, blood flecked dispatches full of tales of pettifogging bureaucracy, tumbling exports and frustrated holiday makers, ruefully eyeing the EU gates.
    Mute button? Man's won the FBPE VC many times over. Remember those times he posted stuff slightly too uncooked, got a pasting, but still went over the top again.

    That's how you win wars.
    If Brexit was a war, Scotty is Hiroo Onoda.
    There’s no reason for that sort of language on here 😠.

    I think you all get too worked up by Brexit on PB. My humble view is the difference between being in and out is out now we will get a bit economically worse off in coming years, less growth, less jobs, less investment in UK - but not to some huge dramatic degree that justifies all this fuss. Even a bit financially poorer, we will still be here, there will always be an England.

    Some of you act like it wasn’t democratic or won on a fistful of lies. But you will never have evidence that’s true, so you should be polite and not mention what you can’t prove.
    We know it was won on lies - some of the leading figures in "Leave" openly said so

    https://politicsandinsights.org/2017/10/27/leave-director-admitted-the-brexit-referendum-was-won-by-lying-to-the-public/

    There are others. Thirty seconds use of Google Search will turn up plenty of references
    It was won because reman failed to make a case and Obama comments of UK at the back of the queue annoyed a lot of people

    Lies or otherwise it was a failure by the remain camp to win their case which should have been a walk in the park
    The Cameron-led Remain camp.

    I may be being paranoid, or over sensitive, but I sometimes think that when people refer to the remain camp, there’s a quiet inference that Remain = Labour.

    I could be completely wrong. I could be a frothing FBPE Remainiac. I try not to be, but you never know.

    But I do think that it is very important to remember that all three (count ‘em!) campaigns - Remain and the two Leaves - were essentially brought to you by the Tories. Or ex-Tory Ukippers.

    Yes Corbyn, yes Hoey, etc, etc. But that doesn’t change the fact that Brexit is Tory. Remain campaign, it’s faults and shortcomings - Tory. Leave, and it’s unicorn herds - Tory. The whole shitshow was.

    I hope that, to me, important point doesn’t get lost.
    Cameron and remain made a complete hash of the campaign, though it is fair to say labour did not support leave nor do they today, despite what they may say in public
    You’re right, of course. They didn’t and don’t. Or at least not the sane bits of Labour, such as they are.

    I think God must have wanted Brexit to happen. Why the hell else would s/he have made Corbyn Labour leader during the referendum?

    Still, despite that, to me it’ll always be wholly Tory - Remain, Leave, the whole stinking shitshow. Sane Labour could only play the cards they were dealt.
    Of all the things that are annoying about Brexit having Corbyn sitting on his hands throughout the whole campaign comes pretty close to the top
    I found it rather charming. Corbyn all his life has been opposed to the EU on the simple basis that it is a pro capitalist anti socialist bankers' conspiracy. He had a long enough memory to recall that Labour had been opposed to membership at certain periods.

    As far as it goes Corbyn's view was correct. Whether that makes it bad is a matter of opinion. For myself I think it is bad for other reasons.

    But where Corbyn and the proper left and I agree is that the UK can be socialist if we want to be and that that's a matter for UK voters.

    I don't think it is possible to be properly socialist in the EU.

    What Corbyn should have done is have the courage to say what he thought and why. A lot of non-left people would have understood.

    ... and voted Remain.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,821

    kle4 said:

    Well now.

    And as Tory MPs look increasingly over Boris Johnson's shoulder, some are now talking up @grantshapps as their next leader.

    Tonight's #WaughOnPolitics is in your inbox


    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1541489755782844419

    Bored journalist. 'Who has not had a piece done on them as next PM?'
    'Shapps'
    'Fuck, really? Oh well, i'll give it a go'
    This is the bit of the script where they bring in Claire Ballentine for a chat about running for leader I think.
    Its Dehenna time. I know it, you know it, the whole damn world knows it.
    We do?!

    I thought I'd see who the youngest Tory MP was if they were looking for a real generation shift. It's interesting how stable the average age of MPs has been since at least 1979 - no higher than 51.2, no lower than 48.8 (in 1983).

    https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/house-of-commons-trends-the-age-of-mps/
    I'm kidding but she will be leader in a decade.
    You are absolutely right again Woolie, Dehenna is the best there is. Anyone who think Penny Mourdant is better than Dehenna just don’t have a clue what voters go for.



    Penny is better looking
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,647
    Foxy said:

    maxh said:

    On smartphones and kids the only defence I'll offer is that over the lockdown period those phones and social media outlets were invaluable for kids in order to maintain contact with their friends etc. Lockdown was shit for adults but trebly so for kids and young adults.

    Though otherwise I do agree that it is a recipe for disaster, speaking as someone who saw their niece getting bullied over one of them.

    Yeah fair point, thanks, though I think I'd extend that and say they are invaluable in that context even out of lockdown. The kids that aren't on phones or social media get excluded from so much (and often are the objects of nasty discussions behind their backs.

    If social media didn't exist, though, kids would have other ways of maintaining contact.
    On the other hand, smartphones are a large part of the reason that teenage pregnancies and smoking have plunged.

    Teenage pregnancies are down by 75% over the last 25 years. Smartphones give them something else to do with their hands!
    maxh said:

    Foxy said:

    maxh said:

    On smartphones and kids the only defence I'll offer is that over the lockdown period those phones and social media outlets were invaluable for kids in order to maintain contact with their friends etc. Lockdown was shit for adults but trebly so for kids and young adults.

    Though otherwise I do agree that it is a recipe for disaster, speaking as someone who saw their niece getting bullied over one of them.

    Yeah fair point, thanks, though I think I'd extend that and say they are invaluable in that context even out of lockdown. The kids that aren't on phones or social media get excluded from so much (and often are the objects of nasty discussions behind their backs.

    If social media didn't exist, though, kids would have other ways of maintaining contact.
    On the other hand, smartphones are a large part of the reason that teenage pregnancies and smoking have plunged.

    Teenage pregnancies are down by 75% over the last 25 years. Smartphones give them something else to do with their hands!
    I feel there must be a sensible mjddle-ground somewhere :smile:
    Thanks for the replies @Foxy
    I really am not kidding, there is a big range of risky behaviours including teenage promiscuity, smoking, drugs, crime etc that has dropped over the last couple of decades. Smartphones are probably not the only reason, but perhaps part of the story.

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-mysterious-fall-of-the-teenage-pregnancy

    Perhaps teens are just misbehaving online rather than face to face nowadays, with bullying, selfie and sexting all taking the place of casual vandalism and sex behind the bike sheds.

  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,821

    TimS said:

    Grant Shapps has something of Chris Packham about him.

    Grant Shapps has something a bit Grant Shapps about him 😕
    Shant Grapps :lol:
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,135
    algarkirk said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dan Hannan watching in horror as his vision of Brexit increasingly drifts further away as Boris turns protectionist, shafting Brexiteer libertarians like Hannan and Cummings to try and regain the redwall
    https://twitter.com/DanielJHannan/status/1541029462405439488?s=20&t=JsUPRV3iX3tU2ZWxIuONbg

    Dan Hannan is a total tit.

    The premise that he is some kind of Brexit intellectual who now has to suffer as it is destroyed at the hands of barbarians is a nonsense.
    It's funny how his identity hasn't changed with his life's work coming to fruition. He was always this sort of cassandra/prince across the water type figure, and post-Brexit he hasn't been able to actually get stuck in, he has instead retained his cassandra persona. I used to think that him and Carswell were spies against leaving the EU, but I think they are just that inhibited by their own personalities - perpetual rebels without a cause.

    He sounds to me like yet another person who has been sold down the river and utterly shafted by Johnson and yet finds themselves surprised.

    Incredible how many utterly gullible people there are in politics and public life.

    Brexit is a multi faceted thing. It's about the UK constitution; it's about where power lies; its about broad political/economic policy and its about tactical choices.

    To support Brexit (and the only thing one could do was vote Leave if that was your position - no more subtle things were available) is to support a particular constitutional settlement, by which we were not members of the EU. And that is all.

    Absolutely everything else is a matter for the UK political process. Hannan, doesn't like it all. Nor do I. Well, that's democracy. And it is only us and our parliament to look to for remedies. I think Hannan probably gets that.

    (The fascinating spectacle is that of SNP types who get exactly this about Scottish Independence but pretend not to understand Brexit. You couldn't make it up.)
    What about Brexit types who not only oppose Scottish Independence but go into paroxyms of rage and indignation at the slightest prospect of it happening?

    Cos I haven't made that up either and it's even more of a puzzler given Sindy is more clearly about national sovereignty than Brexit is.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,506
    edited June 2022

    kle4 said:

    Well now.

    And as Tory MPs look increasingly over Boris Johnson's shoulder, some are now talking up @grantshapps as their next leader.

    Tonight's #WaughOnPolitics is in your inbox


    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1541489755782844419

    Bored journalist. 'Who has not had a piece done on them as next PM?'
    'Shapps'
    'Fuck, really? Oh well, i'll give it a go'
    This is the bit of the script where they bring in Claire Ballentine for a chat about running for leader I think.
    Its Dehenna time. I know it, you know it, the whole damn world knows it.
    We do?!

    I thought I'd see who the youngest Tory MP was if they were looking for a real generation shift. It's interesting how stable the average age of MPs has been since at least 1979 - no higher than 51.2, no lower than 48.8 (in 1983).

    https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/house-of-commons-trends-the-age-of-mps/
    I'm kidding but she will be leader in a decade.
    You are absolutely right again Woolie, Dehenna is the best there is. Anyone who think Penny Mourdant is better than Dehenna just don’t have a clue what voters go for.



    Penny is better looking
    you think so? 🥹
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061

    kle4 said:

    Well now.

    And as Tory MPs look increasingly over Boris Johnson's shoulder, some are now talking up @grantshapps as their next leader.

    Tonight's #WaughOnPolitics is in your inbox


    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1541489755782844419

    Bored journalist. 'Who has not had a piece done on them as next PM?'
    'Shapps'
    'Fuck, really? Oh well, i'll give it a go'
    This is the bit of the script where they bring in Claire Ballentine for a chat about running for leader I think.
    Its Dehenna time. I know it, you know it, the whole damn world knows it.
    We do?!

    I thought I'd see who the youngest Tory MP was if they were looking for a real generation shift. It's interesting how stable the average age of MPs has been since at least 1979 - no higher than 51.2, no lower than 48.8 (in 1983).

    https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/house-of-commons-trends-the-age-of-mps/
    I'm kidding but she will be leader in a decade.
    You are absolutely right again Woolie, Dehenna is the best there is. Anyone who think Penny Mourdant is better than Dehenna just don’t have a clue what voters go for.



    She's the shizzle. Bishop Auckland safe as houses for as long as horny men have the vote
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061

    kle4 said:

    Well now.

    And as Tory MPs look increasingly over Boris Johnson's shoulder, some are now talking up @grantshapps as their next leader.

    Tonight's #WaughOnPolitics is in your inbox


    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1541489755782844419

    Bored journalist. 'Who has not had a piece done on them as next PM?'
    'Shapps'
    'Fuck, really? Oh well, i'll give it a go'
    This is the bit of the script where they bring in Claire Ballentine for a chat about running for leader I think.
    Its Dehenna time. I know it, you know it, the whole damn world knows it.
    We do?!

    I thought I'd see who the youngest Tory MP was if they were looking for a real generation shift. It's interesting how stable the average age of MPs has been since at least 1979 - no higher than 51.2, no lower than 48.8 (in 1983).

    https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/house-of-commons-trends-the-age-of-mps/
    I'm kidding but she will be leader in a decade.
    You are absolutely right again Woolie, Dehenna is the best there is. Anyone who think Penny Mourdant is better than Dehenna just don’t have a clue what voters go for.



    Penny is better looking
    Blasphemer!
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,821

    kle4 said:

    Well now.

    And as Tory MPs look increasingly over Boris Johnson's shoulder, some are now talking up @grantshapps as their next leader.

    Tonight's #WaughOnPolitics is in your inbox


    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1541489755782844419

    Bored journalist. 'Who has not had a piece done on them as next PM?'
    'Shapps'
    'Fuck, really? Oh well, i'll give it a go'
    This is the bit of the script where they bring in Claire Ballentine for a chat about running for leader I think.
    Its Dehenna time. I know it, you know it, the whole damn world knows it.
    We do?!

    I thought I'd see who the youngest Tory MP was if they were looking for a real generation shift. It's interesting how stable the average age of MPs has been since at least 1979 - no higher than 51.2, no lower than 48.8 (in 1983).

    https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/house-of-commons-trends-the-age-of-mps/
    I'm kidding but she will be leader in a decade.
    You are absolutely right again Woolie, Dehenna is the best there is. Anyone who think Penny Mourdant is better than Dehenna just don’t have a clue what voters go for.



    Penny is better looking
    you think so? 🥹
    #NeverEjaculatedInside_a_Tory :lol:

    :lol::lol:
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    From Njegos, by Djilas -

    How populated was the Nahi of Katuni when it inaugurated Montenegrin, Serbian freedom? It is reckoned that in Njegos's time [all] Montenegro contained something over one hundred thousand souls, and that it was capable of sending twenty thousand soldiers into battle, inasmuch as everyone fought who could lift a rifle. The Nahi of Katuni [one of 4 nahi] could hardly have had over some twenty thousand souls - unlettered, without a municipal or administrative center, scattered over a space of barely one county, and isolated by the lack of roads, by ravines, clan hatred, superstition and misery, lawlessness and anarchy. This is where our national myth was crystallized, this is where our national myth began.

    SSI - by "national" Djilas means Montenegrin AND Serbian.

    BTW he always defined himself, in national terms, as a Yugoslav.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,506

    kle4 said:

    Well now.

    And as Tory MPs look increasingly over Boris Johnson's shoulder, some are now talking up @grantshapps as their next leader.

    Tonight's #WaughOnPolitics is in your inbox


    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1541489755782844419

    Bored journalist. 'Who has not had a piece done on them as next PM?'
    'Shapps'
    'Fuck, really? Oh well, i'll give it a go'
    This is the bit of the script where they bring in Claire Ballentine for a chat about running for leader I think.
    Its Dehenna time. I know it, you know it, the whole damn world knows it.
    We do?!

    I thought I'd see who the youngest Tory MP was if they were looking for a real generation shift. It's interesting how stable the average age of MPs has been since at least 1979 - no higher than 51.2, no lower than 48.8 (in 1983).

    https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/house-of-commons-trends-the-age-of-mps/
    I'm kidding but she will be leader in a decade.
    You are absolutely right again Woolie, Dehenna is the best there is. Anyone who think Penny Mourdant is better than Dehenna just don’t have a clue what voters go for.



    She's the shizzle. Bishop Auckland safe as houses for as long as horny men have the vote
    And horny girls who like girls 🤌 💦
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    In the interests of political balance as well as Dehenna i have a big boy crush on Kate Forbes.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,632
    When you get full signal on your mobile.


  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,506

    kle4 said:

    Well now.

    And as Tory MPs look increasingly over Boris Johnson's shoulder, some are now talking up @grantshapps as their next leader.

    Tonight's #WaughOnPolitics is in your inbox


    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1541489755782844419

    Bored journalist. 'Who has not had a piece done on them as next PM?'
    'Shapps'
    'Fuck, really? Oh well, i'll give it a go'
    This is the bit of the script where they bring in Claire Ballentine for a chat about running for leader I think.
    Its Dehenna time. I know it, you know it, the whole damn world knows it.
    We do?!

    I thought I'd see who the youngest Tory MP was if they were looking for a real generation shift. It's interesting how stable the average age of MPs has been since at least 1979 - no higher than 51.2, no lower than 48.8 (in 1983).

    https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/house-of-commons-trends-the-age-of-mps/
    I'm kidding but she will be leader in a decade.
    You are absolutely right again Woolie, Dehenna is the best there is. Anyone who think Penny Mourdant is better than Dehenna just don’t have a clue what voters go for.



    Penny is better looking
    you think so? 🥹
    #NeverEjaculatedInside_a_Tory :lol:

    :lol::lol:
    Loving the way this threads going 🙃
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061

    kle4 said:

    Well now.

    And as Tory MPs look increasingly over Boris Johnson's shoulder, some are now talking up @grantshapps as their next leader.

    Tonight's #WaughOnPolitics is in your inbox


    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1541489755782844419

    Bored journalist. 'Who has not had a piece done on them as next PM?'
    'Shapps'
    'Fuck, really? Oh well, i'll give it a go'
    This is the bit of the script where they bring in Claire Ballentine for a chat about running for leader I think.
    Its Dehenna time. I know it, you know it, the whole damn world knows it.
    We do?!

    I thought I'd see who the youngest Tory MP was if they were looking for a real generation shift. It's interesting how stable the average age of MPs has been since at least 1979 - no higher than 51.2, no lower than 48.8 (in 1983).

    https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/house-of-commons-trends-the-age-of-mps/
    I'm kidding but she will be leader in a decade.
    You are absolutely right again Woolie, Dehenna is the best there is. Anyone who think Penny Mourdant is better than Dehenna just don’t have a clue what voters go for.



    She's the shizzle. Bishop Auckland safe as houses for as long as horny men have the vote
    And horny girls who like girls 🤌 💦
    Yes, those too. And i guess Tories generally but there arent as many of them these days
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    This thread has become a dry sexual husk
    New treads
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,310

    Cyclefree said:

    Anyway my two favourite poems are:

    1. The Owl and the Pussycat, which I used to recite to the children when they were little at bedtime.
    2. An Irish Airman Foresees His Death.

    I know that I shall meet my fate
    Somewhere among the clouds above;
    Those that I fight I do not hate,
    Those that I guard I do not love;
    My country is Kiltartan Cross,
    My countrymen Kiltartan’s poor,
    No likely end could bring them loss
    Or leave them happier than before.
    Nor law, nor duty bade me fight,
    Nor public men, nor cheering crowds,
    A lonely impulse of delight
    Drove to this tumult in the clouds;
    I balanced all, brought all to mind,
    The years to come seemed waste of breath,
    A waste of breath the years behind
    In balance with this life, this death.

    I love the Lake Isle of Innisfree and The Second Coming by him too.

    Andrew Marvell's To His Coy Mistress is a marvel too.

    I love poetry. It's music through words.

    The Irish Airman (like most Yeats) is fab. Up there with Tennyson’s Crossing the Bar as an absolute favourite


    Sunset and evening star,
    And one clear call for me!
    And may there be no moaning of the bar,
    When I put out to sea,

    But such a tide as moving seems asleep,
    Too full for sound and foam,
    When that which drew from out the boundless deep
    Turns again home.

    Twilight and evening bell,
    And after that the dark!
    And may there be no sadness of farewell,
    When I embark;

    For tho' from out our bourne of Time and Place
    The flood may bear me far,
    I hope to see my Pilot face to face
    When I have crost the bar.
    That's lovely. Thank you.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,647
    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Anyway my two favourite poems are:

    1. The Owl and the Pussycat, which I used to recite to the children when they were little at bedtime.
    2. An Irish Airman Foresees His Death.

    I know that I shall meet my fate
    Somewhere among the clouds above;
    Those that I fight I do not hate,
    Those that I guard I do not love;
    My country is Kiltartan Cross,
    My countrymen Kiltartan’s poor,
    No likely end could bring them loss
    Or leave them happier than before.
    Nor law, nor duty bade me fight,
    Nor public men, nor cheering crowds,
    A lonely impulse of delight
    Drove to this tumult in the clouds;
    I balanced all, brought all to mind,
    The years to come seemed waste of breath,
    A waste of breath the years behind
    In balance with this life, this death.

    I love the Lake Isle of Innisfree and The Second Coming by him too.

    Andrew Marvell's To His Coy Mistress is a marvel too.

    I love poetry. It's music through words.

    The Irish Airman (like most Yeats) is fab. Up there with Tennyson’s Crossing the Bar as an absolute favourite


    Sunset and evening star,
    And one clear call for me!
    And may there be no moaning of the bar,
    When I put out to sea,

    But such a tide as moving seems asleep,
    Too full for sound and foam,
    When that which drew from out the boundless deep
    Turns again home.

    Twilight and evening bell,
    And after that the dark!
    And may there be no sadness of farewell,
    When I embark;

    For tho' from out our bourne of Time and Place
    The flood may bear me far,
    I hope to see my Pilot face to face
    When I have crost the bar.
    That's lovely. Thank you.
    A poem for PBers:

    The Pearl by George Herbert

    I know the ways of learning; both the head
    And pipes that feed the press, and make it run;
    What reason hath from nature borrowed,
    Or of itself, like a good huswife, spun
    In laws and policy; what the stars conspire,
    What willing nature speaks, what forc'd by fire;
    Both th'old discoveries and the new-found seas,
    The stock and surplus, cause and history;
    All these stand open, or I have the keys:
    Yet I love thee.

    I know the ways of honour; what maintains
    The quick returns of courtesy and wit;
    In vies of favours whether party gains
    When glory swells the heart and moldeth it
    To all expressions both of hand and eye,
    Which on the world a true-love-knot may tie,
    And bear the bundle wheresoe'er it goes;
    How many drams of spirit there must be
    To sell my life unto my friends or foes:
    Yet I love thee.

    (+2 more verses in similar vein)
This discussion has been closed.