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The data the advocates of a “progressive alliance” ignore – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 11,711
edited July 2022 in General
imageThe data the advocates of a “progressive alliance” ignore – politicalbetting.com

Inevitably after elections of all sorts there are calls for a progressive alliance to be created. The proponents want an arrangement whereby two of Lib Dem, Green or Labour parties in a specific election stand aside so that the vote of the “progressive” can be maximised.

Read the full story here

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    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,871
    First?
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    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    FPT

    If you strip out the stuff which is obvious, proportionate and not sactually anti-trans at all there's not a lot left. Compare the genuine anti gayness of the 70s and earlier.
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    TimSTimS Posts: 9,860
    I think those are all areas where Labour is the main challenger to the Tories (or is the incumbent). So if you vote LD you are consciously choosing not to vote Labour in a place they are best placed to beat the conservatives. I would expect blue wall areas would see a different pattern.
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    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Might go to Taunton tomorrow, not many chances to watch international cricket in these parts
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    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 28,035
    Quite a number of significant things have changed since Peak Boris, mind.
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    Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,400
    It would be interesting if we could have a bar chart showing labour (and Green and Nat) 2nd preferences in similar contests. I suspect the combinations would indicate a much higher progressive score.
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    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,956
    I see some of the hand wringing public health lobby are pushing for another Covid booster (for younger adults too) in the autumn.

    Are they not seeing all their friends and family getting Covid and recovering? 95% of my mates have had it in the past 6 months. Bizarrely I haven't - which seems statistically unlikely so I suspect and I have and it hasn't even registered...

    Seems bonkers to disrupt things for another booster campaign in light of this...
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    wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 7,290
    Off for a nice stroll, but dont forget the not totally insignificant proportion that react to and vote to fustigate formal 'arrangements' . E.g. in any Lab contested seat where LDs and Greens stand aside, all right leaning or labour fearing voters ars motivated to vote Tory. That will include a sizeable number of the LDs as above and even a few Goldsmithite greens
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    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 27,047
    edited June 2022
    Stocky said:

    Good header. I vote LibDem but would have CP as second pref ahead of LP in normal times. Johnson is not normal times though. Agree with Mike that LibDems like me are more numerous than is assumed.

    Most of the LD supporters I know would usually put the Tories as second choice rather than Labour. It probably depends whether it's an urban or suburban/rural area.
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    It would be interesting to see the percentages, including those who opted not to use their second preference vote.

    That would reduce even further the "progressive alliance" share below the 55% achieved in Humber/Durham.

    Some people just won't vote if their candidate isn't on the ballot paper.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,079
    Crash, bang, wallop may sometimes be stupid (see Stokes in the first innings), but given how often we get slow over rates it at least means there is time to complete all 4 innings.

    On topic, I think when people start talking about progressive alliances they are getting ahead of themselves, the data and what is even necessary. If the situation is right then informal work and the public being savvy does the work for you. Just as in Tiverton in a GE there probably won't be as much COn-LD switching, it doesn't need to be so high to in in many other places, and similarly you won't need a 100% efficient progressive alliance (which OGH notes does not occur) to win many.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,971
    Mortimer said:

    I see some of the hand wringing public health lobby are pushing for another Covid booster (for younger adults too) in the autumn.

    Are they not seeing all their friends and family getting Covid and recovering? 95% of my mates have had it in the past 6 months. Bizarrely I haven't - which seems statistically unlikely so I suspect and I have and it hasn't even registered...

    Seems bonkers to disrupt things for another booster campaign in light of this...

    Are there not better uses of the limited NHS budget, than to further innocuulate those who aren’t particularly vulnerable, to something that’s no longer causing serious illnes in the general population?
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    LeonLeon Posts: 47,606
    England riding their luck here
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    Mortimer said:

    I see some of the hand wringing public health lobby are pushing for another Covid booster (for younger adults too) in the autumn.

    Are they not seeing all their friends and family getting Covid and recovering? 95% of my mates have had it in the past 6 months. Bizarrely I haven't - which seems statistically unlikely so I suspect and I have and it hasn't even registered...

    Seems bonkers to disrupt things for another booster campaign in light of this...

    Why disrupt things for a booster campaign?

    Just have the booster campaign, to avoid disruption. Yes people are getting Covid and recovering, but if they're doing so because the vaccine is working, then that could be a good justification for renewing the booster if required.

    I'm happy to get a jab every year if that is what is needed to remain protected, but I'm not happy to have any more disruptions.
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    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,871
    FPT:

    Pulpstar said:

    eek said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    Breakfasting in crowded Kotor. It is beautiful but my god the tourists. They surge with the Adriatic heat

    Venice is the only place on earth that somehow rises above intense mass tourism, or shrugs it off, or even becomes more interesting thereby, because it was always a stage set: awaiting an audience

    Where are most of the tourists from, or is it a mix?
    A fair mix. Probably Americans are the most numerous, to my surprise, Why here and nowhere else?

    A lot of Italians (they only have to cross the Adriatic, I guess), plenty of Russians, a few Brits, Germans and Spaniards

    The Montenegrins feel very Serbian, when you point out that their language is close to Serbian they say Yes YES, It is Serbian!
    Americans are numerous already in many of Europe's tourist hotspots - the Cinque Terre in Italy was awash with them. Because of the flight restrictions and the higher cost of being unable to return home if they got covid, hardly any Americans have been travelling these last few years, and those in steady jobs have money saved for a European trip. With the regulations recently lifted, there are tons of Americans making and wanting to plan European trips right now, as a dip into any of the principal travel forums will quickly demonstrate.

    The difference with Americans - partly because a European trip for most of them is both more special and more rare - and partly because they follow commentators like Steves and all want to visit the most recommended spots on social media - is that those locations that have been recommended by Steves and others are flooded with Americans (so, in Italy, it's always Rome, Florence, Venice, the Amalfi Coast, the Cinque Terre, and the high Dolomites) and it is very rare to run into US tourists anywhere else.

    If you have lots in Montenegro, I would put money on Rick Steves having done a video about it.
    They follow a highly predictable circuit in the UK as well, typically, Stonehenge, Bath and London.

    I tried telling a few in Bath that Stonehenge was shit and there were a million other better places to visit - but whilst they listened they still said they had to do it.
    If you are going to do a stone circle - do Avebury at least getting a drink is easy...
    Yeah, I recommended Avebury.

    To be fair, I don't know how disappointing the Statue of Liberty is, for example, but I suspect I'd at least want to see it and make my mind up for myself if I were a tourist and had never seen it before.
    It is underwhelming.

    American tourists tend to be after things they can't get at home, like castles and palaces and more generally anything really old. You don't get much older than Stonehenge. I've never visited it myself but I have driven past it and it looks pretty cool.

    If I were building a 1 week UK itinerary it would probably look something like this:
    Day 1: British Museum (early); Thames River cruise; West End show or Ronnie Scotts
    Day 2: Maritime Greenwich; picnic in a park in South London; night out in Peckham
    Day 3: day trip to Cambridge; punt to Grantchester; pub lunch; return to London to catch sleeper to Glasgow
    Day 4: day trip Loch Lomond
    Day 5: train to York via Settle and Carlisle. Visit York Minster; hire a car and drive to Yorkshire Dales and stay at a pub
    Day 6: walking in Yorkshire Dales; pub dinner
    Day 7: return car, train back to London and flight home.
    Could replace Glasgow/Loch Lomond with Edinburgh/East Neuk.
    7 days is a very short time for something like this. Night out in Peckham seems a bit err.. parochial..

    If I was to change your schedule but keep the broad theme I'd go Buck Palace and Windsor castle for day 2
    That seems a slightly odd itinerary; amend as follows:-

    Day 1: add London Eye.
    Day 2: add HMS Belfast unless from a state with its own ww2 warship museum.
    Day 3: or Oxford.
    Day 4: Glasgow to Loch Lomond; why? The Edinburgh Festival & Fringe are more entertaining.
    Day 5: (York) railway museum and/or air museum
    Day 6: OP must be a northerner if he/she thinks walking is a leisure activity, and if it is, why hire a car?
    Day 7: don't they have airports up north?

    Also, Stonehenge is best driven past because apart from looking at the stones (from the road) there is not much else. I'd imagine you could do the whole tour on Youtube.
    London Eye is good, I'll give you that.
    I've already put in a couple of things on the Thames, I think HMS Belfast is superfluous. I've put in Edinburgh as an alternative - personally I prefer it to Glasgow (although it isn't necessarily at its best in August) but I think a bit of Scottish West Coast scenery is necessary. The NRM at York is my favourite museum in the world but the itinerary already has a sleeper and the Settle snd Carlisle railway in it and our Amercan tourists may not share my passion for trains (and they should see at least one great medieval cathedral so I would prioritise the minster).
    The car is necessary to get to the idyllic village pub in the dales that will be their base.
    Oxford is shit.
    I think most Americans seem to want to visit a stately home, cathedral, and/or a castle. Salisbury + nearby Wilton House is an option for two of those. Oxford has Blenheim nearby which has US connections of course. Warwick or Windsor for the castle maybe - plenty of other options there of course.

    I'd suggest the Globe theatre on one of the London days, assuming it's not a winter trip - in place of the somewhat bizarre 'night out in Peckham'.

    We once got talking to some Americans on the Dover Calais ferry - they were over for a week but weren't sure if there'd be enough to do in Britain, so had added the day trip to France to their itinerary!
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    Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 4,855
    80% chance the weather has no more part to play in the cricket now, I think.
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    stodgestodge Posts: 12,901
    Afternoon all :)

    This is hardly news or rocket science and illustrates a) why Javid's bleating to the Daily Mail about "anti-Tory pacts" can be ignored and b) there will never be a "progressive alliance" in any meaningful sense.

    I'd go further and say historical experience has left the LDs very wary of both the main parties - the length of spoon required to sup with either Devil has grown exponentially.
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    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 28,035
    Mortimer said:

    I see some of the hand wringing public health lobby are pushing for another Covid booster (for younger adults too) in the autumn.

    Are they not seeing all their friends and family getting Covid and recovering? 95% of my mates have had it in the past 6 months. Bizarrely I haven't - which seems statistically unlikely so I suspect and I have and it hasn't even registered...

    Seems bonkers to disrupt things for another booster campaign in light of this...

    Anecdotally, I know more folk who've had it in the past month than at any other time.
    Ranged from virtually no symptoms to a week off work for those in good health.
    Had one nearer a month, but he has multiple ongoing health conditions.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,079

    150 grand for a treehouse. Is it possible to read that story and not think 'what an utter twat'?

    The problem is not that Boris is "an utter twat" but that he wanted a Tory donor to pay for it. It is the potential for corruption that is dangerous; don't be distracted by Boris's builders overcharging.
    Indeed so. The man seems to have no conception of how appearances really can matter in these things, as well as placing yourself under financial obligation to someone else.
    TimS said:

    The UK is seen by people across the West as the G7 country that has responded best to the Ukraine crisis.

    Net well/badly score

    🇬🇧 UK: +24
    🇺🇸 US: +22
    🇫🇷 France: +21
    🇨🇦 Canada: +19
    🇩🇪 Germany: +15
    🇮🇹 Italy: +12
    🇯🇵 Japan: +5


    https://twitter.com/jamesjohnson252/status/1541357824500027392

    A bit unfair on Japan. Didn't they decide to reinstate their territorial claims over the Kuril Is?
    I suspect, without checking, that the low score may be down to don't knows and general focus on USA and W Europe.
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,454
    IshmaelZ said:

    Might go to Taunton tomorrow, not many chances to watch international cricket in these parts

    Nice racecourse, fences not too stiff.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,079
    edited June 2022
    Johnny's not going to let Root get his century, is he?

    I'm embarrassed frankly, I've never really rated Bairstow.
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    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,407

    Mortimer said:

    I see some of the hand wringing public health lobby are pushing for another Covid booster (for younger adults too) in the autumn.

    Are they not seeing all their friends and family getting Covid and recovering? 95% of my mates have had it in the past 6 months. Bizarrely I haven't - which seems statistically unlikely so I suspect and I have and it hasn't even registered...

    Seems bonkers to disrupt things for another booster campaign in light of this...

    Why disrupt things for a booster campaign?

    Just have the booster campaign, to avoid disruption. Yes people are getting Covid and recoveringm, but if they're doing so because the vaccine is working, then that could be a good justification for renewing the booster if required.

    I'm happy to get a jab every year if that is what is needed to remain protected, but I'm not happy to have any more disruptions.
    Main issue is probably which booster. Updated ones are in trials, but omicron seems quite poor at generating neutralising antibodies, hence multiple omicron reinfections. At the moment my sense is the autumn plan is probably the right one, and no need yet to boost everyone.
    As has been pointed out, almost everyone has had Covid now, so the original herd immunity idea has come good, via protection against severe disease from the vaccines.
    We are not yet sure how high the ba4/ba5 spike will be in hospitals, although if @Foxy ’s figures are the same nationally, only 20% are FOR Covid, with the rest having Covid as a secondary.
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,130
    There seems to be something wrong with the Russians' bloody ammo dumps today... ;)
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    EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976
    Mortimer said:

    I see some of the hand wringing public health lobby are pushing for another Covid booster (for younger adults too) in the autumn.

    Are they not seeing all their friends and family getting Covid and recovering? 95% of my mates have had it in the past 6 months. Bizarrely I haven't - which seems statistically unlikely so I suspect and I have and it hasn't even registered...

    Seems bonkers to disrupt things for another booster campaign in light of this...

    Does a booster campaign really disrupt anything?

    As far as I can tell, lots of people getting Covid and then recovering is in itself disruptive, because many of them will happily jump on the chance to take a week or so off work - which is damaging to the economy, and exacerbates issues like the mass flight cancellations we're seeing.

    The other benefit is that rolling up the Covid booster with the annual flu vaccine (assuming that is what's planned) helps increase takeup for both vaccines, and therefore reduces the impact of the winter flu season.
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    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    TOPPING said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Might go to Taunton tomorrow, not many chances to watch international cricket in these parts

    Nice racecourse, fences not too stiff.
    Substantial hedges in the Vale country
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,454

    Mortimer said:

    I see some of the hand wringing public health lobby are pushing for another Covid booster (for younger adults too) in the autumn.

    Are they not seeing all their friends and family getting Covid and recovering? 95% of my mates have had it in the past 6 months. Bizarrely I haven't - which seems statistically unlikely so I suspect and I have and it hasn't even registered...

    Seems bonkers to disrupt things for another booster campaign in light of this...

    Why disrupt things for a booster campaign?

    Just have the booster campaign, to avoid disruption. Yes people are getting Covid and recovering, but if they're doing so because the vaccine is working, then that could be a good justification for renewing the booster if required.

    I'm happy to get a jab every year if that is what is needed to remain protected, but I'm not happy to have any more disruptions.
    Interestingly I had Covid a couple of weeks ago. Felt not 100% but far from too bad for a few days. Worst was the anxiety of seeing those effing two lines while feeling perfectly ok. Amended my behaviour accordingly.

    Thing is, my last jab (the second) was May 2020.

    I do wonder what combination of lessening of virulence and jab longevity meant that my symptoms were not even meh.
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    stodgestodge Posts: 12,901
    Mortimer said:

    I see some of the hand wringing public health lobby are pushing for another Covid booster (for younger adults too) in the autumn.

    Are they not seeing all their friends and family getting Covid and recovering? 95% of my mates have had it in the past 6 months. Bizarrely I haven't - which seems statistically unlikely so I suspect and I have and it hasn't even registered...

    Seems bonkers to disrupt things for another booster campaign in light of this...

    All the information I've seen is the Covid booster only for those 75+ in the autumn - I'm not entirely convinced. I think 60+ is more sensible ad in tandem with the regular flu injection.
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    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 28,035
    There are plenty of public pools which are not even segregated.
    Both my closest two do not have male or female changing areas.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,899
    Leon said:

    England riding their luck here

    Without that, might well have been a rain affected draw.
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,454

    I want to say thank you to a few people here who last week advised I should call a physio after I mentioned a back issue in passing. Called then and got an appointment for today, just had it and the physio has diagnosed that I've got a torn ligament, he could feel where it is spasming, and has said he will email me some exercises to help with the recovery.

    I had no plans to get it checked out until people here said I should, so thank you.

    Good call. The first rule of medicine is "don't wait".
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,079
    Root has scored 79 at a strike rate of 73. That's quick.

    Or it used to be.
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    eekeek Posts: 25,041
    dixiedean said:

    There are plenty of public pools which are not even segregated.
    Both my closest two do not have male or female changing areas.

    And that's the ideal scenario as it means

    1) Everyone knows where they stand
    2) the area is likely to be busier than it otherwise would be
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    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,871
    edited June 2022
    TOPPING said:

    Mortimer said:

    I see some of the hand wringing public health lobby are pushing for another Covid booster (for younger adults too) in the autumn.

    Are they not seeing all their friends and family getting Covid and recovering? 95% of my mates have had it in the past 6 months. Bizarrely I haven't - which seems statistically unlikely so I suspect and I have and it hasn't even registered...

    Seems bonkers to disrupt things for another booster campaign in light of this...

    Why disrupt things for a booster campaign?

    Just have the booster campaign, to avoid disruption. Yes people are getting Covid and recovering, but if they're doing so because the vaccine is working, then that could be a good justification for renewing the booster if required.

    I'm happy to get a jab every year if that is what is needed to remain protected, but I'm not happy to have any more disruptions.
    Interestingly I had Covid a couple of weeks ago. Felt not 100% but far from too bad for a few days. Worst was the anxiety of seeing those effing two lines while feeling perfectly ok. Amended my behaviour accordingly.

    Thing is, my last jab (the second) was May 2020.

    I do wonder what combination of lessening of virulence and jab longevity meant that my symptoms were not even meh.
    Mrs P and I have just had it. We both felt quite wiped out for a week even though we have been triple-jabbed. I'd say it was on a par with 'flu. Not pleasant, but not requiring any more than paracetamol and rest to get through.

    The point is though that individuals are affected differently, and cannot sensibly know in advance how they will react.
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,454
    edited June 2022
    IshmaelZ said:

    TOPPING said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Might go to Taunton tomorrow, not many chances to watch international cricket in these parts

    Nice racecourse, fences not too stiff.
    Substantial hedges in the Vale country
    Oh yes hondootedly.
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    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,871
    Root will need to get a shift on if he wants that century.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,187
    edited June 2022
    Plus of course when Corbyn was Labour leader and Clegg was LD leader many if not most LD voters would have preferenced the Conservatives over Labour
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,899

    FPT:

    Pulpstar said:

    eek said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    Breakfasting in crowded Kotor. It is beautiful but my god the tourists. They surge with the Adriatic heat

    Venice is the only place on earth that somehow rises above intense mass tourism, or shrugs it off, or even becomes more interesting thereby, because it was always a stage set: awaiting an audience

    Where are most of the tourists from, or is it a mix?
    A fair mix. Probably Americans are the most numerous, to my surprise, Why here and nowhere else?

    A lot of Italians (they only have to cross the Adriatic, I guess), plenty of Russians, a few Brits, Germans and Spaniards

    The Montenegrins feel very Serbian, when you point out that their language is close to Serbian they say Yes YES, It is Serbian!
    Americans are numerous already in many of Europe's tourist hotspots - the Cinque Terre in Italy was awash with them. Because of the flight restrictions and the higher cost of being unable to return home if they got covid, hardly any Americans have been travelling these last few years, and those in steady jobs have money saved for a European trip. With the regulations recently lifted, there are tons of Americans making and wanting to plan European trips right now, as a dip into any of the principal travel forums will quickly demonstrate.

    The difference with Americans - partly because a European trip for most of them is both more special and more rare - and partly because they follow commentators like Steves and all want to visit the most recommended spots on social media - is that those locations that have been recommended by Steves and others are flooded with Americans (so, in Italy, it's always Rome, Florence, Venice, the Amalfi Coast, the Cinque Terre, and the high Dolomites) and it is very rare to run into US tourists anywhere else.

    If you have lots in Montenegro, I would put money on Rick Steves having done a video about it.
    They follow a highly predictable circuit in the UK as well, typically, Stonehenge, Bath and London.

    I tried telling a few in Bath that Stonehenge was shit and there were a million other better places to visit - but whilst they listened they still said they had to do it.
    If you are going to do a stone circle - do Avebury at least getting a drink is easy...
    Yeah, I recommended Avebury.

    To be fair, I don't know how disappointing the Statue of Liberty is, for example, but I suspect I'd at least want to see it and make my mind up for myself if I were a tourist and had never seen it before.
    It is underwhelming.

    American tourists tend to be after things they can't get at home, like castles and palaces and more generally anything really old. You don't get much older than Stonehenge. I've never visited it myself but I have driven past it and it looks pretty cool.

    If I were building a 1 week UK itinerary it would probably look something like this:
    Day 1: British Museum (early); Thames River cruise; West End show or Ronnie Scotts
    Day 2: Maritime Greenwich; picnic in a park in South London; night out in Peckham
    Day 3: day trip to Cambridge; punt to Grantchester; pub lunch; return to London to catch sleeper to Glasgow
    Day 4: day trip Loch Lomond
    Day 5: train to York via Settle and Carlisle. Visit York Minster; hire a car and drive to Yorkshire Dales and stay at a pub
    Day 6: walking in Yorkshire Dales; pub dinner
    Day 7: return car, train back to London and flight home.
    Could replace Glasgow/Loch Lomond with Edinburgh/East Neuk.
    7 days is a very short time for something like this. Night out in Peckham seems a bit err.. parochial..

    If I was to change your schedule but keep the broad theme I'd go Buck Palace and Windsor castle for day 2
    That seems a slightly odd itinerary; amend as follows:-

    Day 1: add London Eye.
    Day 2: add HMS Belfast unless from a state with its own ww2 warship museum.
    Day 3: or Oxford.
    Day 4: Glasgow to Loch Lomond; why? The Edinburgh Festival & Fringe are more entertaining.
    Day 5: (York) railway museum and/or air museum
    Day 6: OP must be a northerner if he/she thinks walking is a leisure activity, and if it is, why hire a car?
    Day 7: don't they have airports up north?

    Also, Stonehenge is best driven past because apart from looking at the stones (from the road) there is not much else. I'd imagine you could do the whole tour on Youtube.
    London Eye is good, I'll give you that.
    I've already put in a couple of things on the Thames, I think HMS Belfast is superfluous. I've put in Edinburgh as an alternative - personally I prefer it to Glasgow (although it isn't necessarily at its best in August) but I think a bit of Scottish West Coast scenery is necessary. The NRM at York is my favourite museum in the world but the itinerary already has a sleeper and the Settle snd Carlisle railway in it and our Amercan tourists may not share my passion for trains (and they should see at least one great medieval cathedral so I would prioritise the minster).
    The car is necessary to get to the idyllic village pub in the dales that will be their base.
    Oxford is shit.
    I think most Americans seem to want to visit a stately home, cathedral, and/or a castle. Salisbury + nearby Wilton House is an option for two of those. Oxford has Blenheim nearby which has US connections of course. Warwick or Windsor for the castle maybe - plenty of other options there of course.

    I'd suggest the Globe theatre on one of the London days, assuming it's not a winter trip - in place of the somewhat bizarre 'night out in Peckham'.

    We once got talking to some Americans on the Dover Calais ferry - they were over for a week but weren't sure if there'd be enough to do in Britain, so had added the day trip to France to their itinerary!
    Oxford is fine for quite a few things - the Ashmolean; the Pitt Rivers; punting from the Cherwell Boathouse, for example.

    The Globe makes far more sense than Stratford, which is indeed a hideous tourist trap with only occasional excellent theatre (the current R III production being an example, I think).
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    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,956
    Sandpit said:

    Mortimer said:

    I see some of the hand wringing public health lobby are pushing for another Covid booster (for younger adults too) in the autumn.

    Are they not seeing all their friends and family getting Covid and recovering? 95% of my mates have had it in the past 6 months. Bizarrely I haven't - which seems statistically unlikely so I suspect and I have and it hasn't even registered...

    Seems bonkers to disrupt things for another booster campaign in light of this...

    Are there not better uses of the limited NHS budget, than to further innocuulate those who aren’t particularly vulnerable, to something that’s no longer causing serious illnes in the general population?
    Exactly!
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    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,211

    Root will need to get a shift on if he wants that century.

    He'll take the not out.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,079
    Mitchell has scored more, but Bairstow has to be man of the series. He's grabbed the series by the scruff of the neck and stamped his name on it in a rare fashion.
    TOPPING said:

    I want to say thank you to a few people here who last week advised I should call a physio after I mentioned a back issue in passing. Called then and got an appointment for today, just had it and the physio has diagnosed that I've got a torn ligament, he could feel where it is spasming, and has said he will email me some exercises to help with the recovery.

    I had no plans to get it checked out until people here said I should, so thank you.

    Good call. The first rule of medicine is "don't wait".
    Someone tell that to GP surgeries!
    dixiedean said:

    Mortimer said:

    I see some of the hand wringing public health lobby are pushing for another Covid booster (for younger adults too) in the autumn.

    Are they not seeing all their friends and family getting Covid and recovering? 95% of my mates have had it in the past 6 months. Bizarrely I haven't - which seems statistically unlikely so I suspect and I have and it hasn't even registered...

    Seems bonkers to disrupt things for another booster campaign in light of this...

    Anecdotally, I know more folk who've had it in the past month than at any other time.
    Ranged from virtually no symptoms to a week off work for those in good health.
    Had one nearer a month, but he has multiple ongoing health conditions.
    Weirdly I'm the same. Had two people tell me they've come down with it in the last 2 hours. May not sound a lot, but with my limited social circle that's remarkable.
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,871
    Nigelb said:

    FPT:

    Pulpstar said:

    eek said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    Breakfasting in crowded Kotor. It is beautiful but my god the tourists. They surge with the Adriatic heat

    Venice is the only place on earth that somehow rises above intense mass tourism, or shrugs it off, or even becomes more interesting thereby, because it was always a stage set: awaiting an audience

    Where are most of the tourists from, or is it a mix?
    A fair mix. Probably Americans are the most numerous, to my surprise, Why here and nowhere else?

    A lot of Italians (they only have to cross the Adriatic, I guess), plenty of Russians, a few Brits, Germans and Spaniards

    The Montenegrins feel very Serbian, when you point out that their language is close to Serbian they say Yes YES, It is Serbian!
    Americans are numerous already in many of Europe's tourist hotspots - the Cinque Terre in Italy was awash with them. Because of the flight restrictions and the higher cost of being unable to return home if they got covid, hardly any Americans have been travelling these last few years, and those in steady jobs have money saved for a European trip. With the regulations recently lifted, there are tons of Americans making and wanting to plan European trips right now, as a dip into any of the principal travel forums will quickly demonstrate.

    The difference with Americans - partly because a European trip for most of them is both more special and more rare - and partly because they follow commentators like Steves and all want to visit the most recommended spots on social media - is that those locations that have been recommended by Steves and others are flooded with Americans (so, in Italy, it's always Rome, Florence, Venice, the Amalfi Coast, the Cinque Terre, and the high Dolomites) and it is very rare to run into US tourists anywhere else.

    If you have lots in Montenegro, I would put money on Rick Steves having done a video about it.
    They follow a highly predictable circuit in the UK as well, typically, Stonehenge, Bath and London.

    I tried telling a few in Bath that Stonehenge was shit and there were a million other better places to visit - but whilst they listened they still said they had to do it.
    If you are going to do a stone circle - do Avebury at least getting a drink is easy...
    Yeah, I recommended Avebury.

    To be fair, I don't know how disappointing the Statue of Liberty is, for example, but I suspect I'd at least want to see it and make my mind up for myself if I were a tourist and had never seen it before.
    It is underwhelming.

    American tourists tend to be after things they can't get at home, like castles and palaces and more generally anything really old. You don't get much older than Stonehenge. I've never visited it myself but I have driven past it and it looks pretty cool.

    If I were building a 1 week UK itinerary it would probably look something like this:
    Day 1: British Museum (early); Thames River cruise; West End show or Ronnie Scotts
    Day 2: Maritime Greenwich; picnic in a park in South London; night out in Peckham
    Day 3: day trip to Cambridge; punt to Grantchester; pub lunch; return to London to catch sleeper to Glasgow
    Day 4: day trip Loch Lomond
    Day 5: train to York via Settle and Carlisle. Visit York Minster; hire a car and drive to Yorkshire Dales and stay at a pub
    Day 6: walking in Yorkshire Dales; pub dinner
    Day 7: return car, train back to London and flight home.
    Could replace Glasgow/Loch Lomond with Edinburgh/East Neuk.
    7 days is a very short time for something like this. Night out in Peckham seems a bit err.. parochial..

    If I was to change your schedule but keep the broad theme I'd go Buck Palace and Windsor castle for day 2
    That seems a slightly odd itinerary; amend as follows:-

    Day 1: add London Eye.
    Day 2: add HMS Belfast unless from a state with its own ww2 warship museum.
    Day 3: or Oxford.
    Day 4: Glasgow to Loch Lomond; why? The Edinburgh Festival & Fringe are more entertaining.
    Day 5: (York) railway museum and/or air museum
    Day 6: OP must be a northerner if he/she thinks walking is a leisure activity, and if it is, why hire a car?
    Day 7: don't they have airports up north?

    Also, Stonehenge is best driven past because apart from looking at the stones (from the road) there is not much else. I'd imagine you could do the whole tour on Youtube.
    London Eye is good, I'll give you that.
    I've already put in a couple of things on the Thames, I think HMS Belfast is superfluous. I've put in Edinburgh as an alternative - personally I prefer it to Glasgow (although it isn't necessarily at its best in August) but I think a bit of Scottish West Coast scenery is necessary. The NRM at York is my favourite museum in the world but the itinerary already has a sleeper and the Settle snd Carlisle railway in it and our Amercan tourists may not share my passion for trains (and they should see at least one great medieval cathedral so I would prioritise the minster).
    The car is necessary to get to the idyllic village pub in the dales that will be their base.
    Oxford is shit.
    I think most Americans seem to want to visit a stately home, cathedral, and/or a castle. Salisbury + nearby Wilton House is an option for two of those. Oxford has Blenheim nearby which has US connections of course. Warwick or Windsor for the castle maybe - plenty of other options there of course.

    I'd suggest the Globe theatre on one of the London days, assuming it's not a winter trip - in place of the somewhat bizarre 'night out in Peckham'.

    We once got talking to some Americans on the Dover Calais ferry - they were over for a week but weren't sure if there'd be enough to do in Britain, so had added the day trip to France to their itinerary!
    Oxford is fine for quite a few things - the Ashmolean; the Pitt Rivers; punting from the Cherwell Boathouse, for example.

    The Globe makes far more sense than Stratford, which is indeed a hideous tourist trap with only occasional excellent theatre (the current R III production being an example, I think).
    That's a bit harsh on the RSC which generally puts on very high quality productions in my experience. The town is inevitable a tourist trap though.
  • Options

    Root will need to get a shift on if he wants that century.

    Needs 20 with 21 to win. Don't think its going to happen.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,124
    Mortimer said:

    I see some of the hand wringing public health lobby are pushing for another Covid booster (for younger adults too) in the autumn.

    Are they not seeing all their friends and family getting Covid and recovering? 95% of my mates have had it in the past 6 months. Bizarrely I haven't - which seems statistically unlikely so I suspect and I have and it hasn't even registered...

    Seems bonkers to disrupt things for another booster campaign in light of this...

    In the US, there's no "disrupting" things. If you want a booster, you go to your local pharmacy and get a jab. If you don't, you don't.

    Lots of older people will get the booster. Most younger people won't bother.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,606
    England in with a shout now
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 28,035
    eek said:

    dixiedean said:

    There are plenty of public pools which are not even segregated.
    Both my closest two do not have male or female changing areas.

    And that's the ideal scenario as it means

    1) Everyone knows where they stand
    2) the area is likely to be busier than it otherwise would be
    Would imagine it is cheaper to build and run also. No one seems to think it is remarkable in any way.
  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,956

    Mortimer said:

    I see some of the hand wringing public health lobby are pushing for another Covid booster (for younger adults too) in the autumn.

    Are they not seeing all their friends and family getting Covid and recovering? 95% of my mates have had it in the past 6 months. Bizarrely I haven't - which seems statistically unlikely so I suspect and I have and it hasn't even registered...

    Seems bonkers to disrupt things for another booster campaign in light of this...

    Why disrupt things for a booster campaign?

    Just have the booster campaign, to avoid disruption. Yes people are getting Covid and recovering, but if they're doing so because the vaccine is working, then that could be a good justification for renewing the booster if required.

    I'm happy to get a jab every year if that is what is needed to remain protected, but I'm not happy to have any more disruptions.
    I know several docs who are only doing jabs. Because it is incredibly lucrative.

    I'd quite like the worried well, maybe under 50s and with no health conditions, to be charged for future boosters...
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,187
    edited June 2022
    Education Secretary to tell OCR exam board not to remove Wilfred Owen and Philip Larkin from the GCSE syllabus

    https://twitter.com/nadhimzahawi/status/1539882196118511620?s=20&t=JsUPRV3iX3tU2ZWxIuONbg
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,079
    Leon said:

    England in with a shout now

    Pah, who needs opening batsmen anyway?
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,871

    Root will need to get a shift on if he wants that century.

    Needs 20 with 21 to win. Don't think its going to happen.
    Nah - my post aged rather quickly, i.e. in the time between typing it and pressing 'post comment'.
  • Options
    No team has ever chased 250+ three times in a series before.

    Quite incredible really, to consider how dreadful the batting was for England in the winter to now potentially achieve that first - and in a three Test series.
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,871
    Bairstow could end up top scorer in this innings!
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,079

    Root will need to get a shift on if he wants that century.

    Needs 20 with 21 to win. Don't think its going to happen.
    Nah - my post aged rather quickly, i.e. in the time between typing it and pressing 'post comment'.
    I believe that's known as 1 milliBairstow of time.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,899
    edited June 2022

    Nigelb said:

    FPT:

    Pulpstar said:

    eek said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    Breakfasting in crowded Kotor. It is beautiful but my god the tourists. They surge with the Adriatic heat

    Venice is the only place on earth that somehow rises above intense mass tourism, or shrugs it off, or even becomes more interesting thereby, because it was always a stage set: awaiting an audience

    Where are most of the tourists from, or is it a mix?
    A fair mix. Probably Americans are the most numerous, to my surprise, Why here and nowhere else?

    A lot of Italians (they only have to cross the Adriatic, I guess), plenty of Russians, a few Brits, Germans and Spaniards

    The Montenegrins feel very Serbian, when you point out that their language is close to Serbian they say Yes YES, It is Serbian!
    Americans are numerous already in many of Europe's tourist hotspots - the Cinque Terre in Italy was awash with them. Because of the flight restrictions and the higher cost of being unable to return home if they got covid, hardly any Americans have been travelling these last few years, and those in steady jobs have money saved for a European trip. With the regulations recently lifted, there are tons of Americans making and wanting to plan European trips right now, as a dip into any of the principal travel forums will quickly demonstrate.

    The difference with Americans - partly because a European trip for most of them is both more special and more rare - and partly because they follow commentators like Steves and all want to visit the most recommended spots on social media - is that those locations that have been recommended by Steves and others are flooded with Americans (so, in Italy, it's always Rome, Florence, Venice, the Amalfi Coast, the Cinque Terre, and the high Dolomites) and it is very rare to run into US tourists anywhere else.

    If you have lots in Montenegro, I would put money on Rick Steves having done a video about it.
    They follow a highly predictable circuit in the UK as well, typically, Stonehenge, Bath and London.

    I tried telling a few in Bath that Stonehenge was shit and there were a million other better places to visit - but whilst they listened they still said they had to do it.
    If you are going to do a stone circle - do Avebury at least getting a drink is easy...
    Yeah, I recommended Avebury.

    To be fair, I don't know how disappointing the Statue of Liberty is, for example, but I suspect I'd at least want to see it and make my mind up for myself if I were a tourist and had never seen it before.
    It is underwhelming.

    American tourists tend to be after things they can't get at home, like castles and palaces and more generally anything really old. You don't get much older than Stonehenge. I've never visited it myself but I have driven past it and it looks pretty cool.

    If I were building a 1 week UK itinerary it would probably look something like this:
    Day 1: British Museum (early); Thames River cruise; West End show or Ronnie Scotts
    Day 2: Maritime Greenwich; picnic in a park in South London; night out in Peckham
    Day 3: day trip to Cambridge; punt to Grantchester; pub lunch; return to London to catch sleeper to Glasgow
    Day 4: day trip Loch Lomond
    Day 5: train to York via Settle and Carlisle. Visit York Minster; hire a car and drive to Yorkshire Dales and stay at a pub
    Day 6: walking in Yorkshire Dales; pub dinner
    Day 7: return car, train back to London and flight home.
    Could replace Glasgow/Loch Lomond with Edinburgh/East Neuk.
    7 days is a very short time for something like this. Night out in Peckham seems a bit err.. parochial..

    If I was to change your schedule but keep the broad theme I'd go Buck Palace and Windsor castle for day 2
    That seems a slightly odd itinerary; amend as follows:-

    Day 1: add London Eye.
    Day 2: add HMS Belfast unless from a state with its own ww2 warship museum.
    Day 3: or Oxford.
    Day 4: Glasgow to Loch Lomond; why? The Edinburgh Festival & Fringe are more entertaining.
    Day 5: (York) railway museum and/or air museum
    Day 6: OP must be a northerner if he/she thinks walking is a leisure activity, and if it is, why hire a car?
    Day 7: don't they have airports up north?

    Also, Stonehenge is best driven past because apart from looking at the stones (from the road) there is not much else. I'd imagine you could do the whole tour on Youtube.
    London Eye is good, I'll give you that.
    I've already put in a couple of things on the Thames, I think HMS Belfast is superfluous. I've put in Edinburgh as an alternative - personally I prefer it to Glasgow (although it isn't necessarily at its best in August) but I think a bit of Scottish West Coast scenery is necessary. The NRM at York is my favourite museum in the world but the itinerary already has a sleeper and the Settle snd Carlisle railway in it and our Amercan tourists may not share my passion for trains (and they should see at least one great medieval cathedral so I would prioritise the minster).
    The car is necessary to get to the idyllic village pub in the dales that will be their base.
    Oxford is shit.
    I think most Americans seem to want to visit a stately home, cathedral, and/or a castle. Salisbury + nearby Wilton House is an option for two of those. Oxford has Blenheim nearby which has US connections of course. Warwick or Windsor for the castle maybe - plenty of other options there of course.

    I'd suggest the Globe theatre on one of the London days, assuming it's not a winter trip - in place of the somewhat bizarre 'night out in Peckham'.

    We once got talking to some Americans on the Dover Calais ferry - they were over for a week but weren't sure if there'd be enough to do in Britain, so had added the day trip to France to their itinerary!
    Oxford is fine for quite a few things - the Ashmolean; the Pitt Rivers; punting from the Cherwell Boathouse, for example.

    The Globe makes far more sense than Stratford, which is indeed a hideous tourist trap with only occasional excellent theatre (the current R III production being an example, I think).
    That's a bit harsh on the RSC which generally puts on very high quality productions in my experience. The town is inevitable a tourist trap though.
    FWIW, I've seen excellent, middling and poor, with the middling predominating.

    The two best Shakespeare productions I've seen, by some distance, were in ... Bolton and Santa Cruz.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,124
    Sandpit said:

    Mortimer said:

    I see some of the hand wringing public health lobby are pushing for another Covid booster (for younger adults too) in the autumn.

    Are they not seeing all their friends and family getting Covid and recovering? 95% of my mates have had it in the past 6 months. Bizarrely I haven't - which seems statistically unlikely so I suspect and I have and it hasn't even registered...

    Seems bonkers to disrupt things for another booster campaign in light of this...

    Are there not better uses of the limited NHS budget, than to further innocuulate those who aren’t particularly vulnerable, to something that’s no longer causing serious illnes in the general population?
    We have the vaccines, because we spent liberally early on.

    Allowing pharmacies to distribute them, and paying them (say) £5/jab for the injection, is going to have negligible costs, and likely is very cost effective if it stops a 75 year old from getting seriously sick. Is it worth it for a healthy 25 year old who has already had Covid twice? Probably not. But it's probably better to let people make their own decisions.
  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,407
    This cricket is boring. No sense of jeopardy.
  • Options
    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    Education Secretary to tell OCR exam board not to remove Wilfred Larkin and Philip Larkin from the GCSE syllabus

    https://twitter.com/nadhimzahawi/status/1539882196118511620?s=20&t=JsUPRV3iX3tU2ZWxIuONbg

    Wilfred Larkin's poems have a haunting power to them that stays with you long afterwards.
    As do Philip Owen's too.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,079
    HYUFD said:

    Education Secretary to tell OCR exam board not to remove Wilfred Owen and Philip Larkin from the GCSE syllabus

    https://twitter.com/nadhimzahawi/status/1539882196118511620?s=20&t=JsUPRV3iX3tU2ZWxIuONbg

    Never heard of them until this row. My own schooling obviously lacking.
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,364
    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    Education Secretary to tell OCR exam board not to remove Wilfred Larkin and Philip Larkin from the GCSE syllabus

    https://twitter.com/nadhimzahawi/status/1539882196118511620?s=20&t=JsUPRV3iX3tU2ZWxIuONbg

    Wilfred Larkin's poems have a haunting power to them that stays with you long afterwards.
    Not to be confused with Philip Owen's trenches poetry?
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,394
    I guess much depends on the type of Lab or Con party you have. Eg Corbyn Lab and Johnson Con would both be LibDem repellents. So a lot of cancel-out there last time. But next time, Even Worse Johnson Con vs Starmer Lab, this looks very lopsided indeed. Most of the LDs who are game for some tactical voting will vote Lab where Lab is the challenger to Con in their seat. And most Labs of similar mind will vote LD where they are the Con challenger. This makes it (imo) very likely that the Cons lose power at the next election despite going into it with a big majority.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,010
    Wonder if Bairstow plays snooker ?
    His innings this test have been the equivalent of smashing into the reds on break and clearing up.
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,454

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    Education Secretary to tell OCR exam board not to remove Wilfred Larkin and Philip Larkin from the GCSE syllabus

    https://twitter.com/nadhimzahawi/status/1539882196118511620?s=20&t=JsUPRV3iX3tU2ZWxIuONbg

    Wilfred Larkin's poems have a haunting power to them that stays with you long afterwards.
    Not to be confused with Philip Owen's trenches poetry?
    I didn't know that the former leader of the SDP wrote poetry.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,124
    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    I see some of the hand wringing public health lobby are pushing for another Covid booster (for younger adults too) in the autumn.

    Are they not seeing all their friends and family getting Covid and recovering? 95% of my mates have had it in the past 6 months. Bizarrely I haven't - which seems statistically unlikely so I suspect and I have and it hasn't even registered...

    Seems bonkers to disrupt things for another booster campaign in light of this...

    Why disrupt things for a booster campaign?

    Just have the booster campaign, to avoid disruption. Yes people are getting Covid and recovering, but if they're doing so because the vaccine is working, then that could be a good justification for renewing the booster if required.

    I'm happy to get a jab every year if that is what is needed to remain protected, but I'm not happy to have any more disruptions.
    I know several docs who are only doing jabs. Because it is incredibly lucrative.

    I'd quite like the worried well, maybe under 50s and with no health conditions, to be charged for future boosters...
    In the US, doctors have no role in giving jabs, it's entirely pharmacies.
  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,956
    rcs1000 said:

    Mortimer said:

    I see some of the hand wringing public health lobby are pushing for another Covid booster (for younger adults too) in the autumn.

    Are they not seeing all their friends and family getting Covid and recovering? 95% of my mates have had it in the past 6 months. Bizarrely I haven't - which seems statistically unlikely so I suspect and I have and it hasn't even registered...

    Seems bonkers to disrupt things for another booster campaign in light of this...

    In the US, there's no "disrupting" things. If you want a booster, you go to your local pharmacy and get a jab. If you don't, you don't.

    Lots of older people will get the booster. Most younger people won't bother.
    This solution sounds good to me.

    NHS shouldn't grind to a halt because Docs and Nurses are giving jabs IMO....
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,079

    Root will need to get a shift on if he wants that century.

    Needs 20 with 21 to win. Don't think its going to happen.
    He can do it. Needs to score 9 of the needed 10 now, then hit a six to finish it off. Easy.

    Feels a bit boring politics now - with the by-elections done and it already being late June, what points of interest are going to come up?
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,010
    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Education Secretary to tell OCR exam board not to remove Wilfred Owen and Philip Larkin from the GCSE syllabus

    https://twitter.com/nadhimzahawi/status/1539882196118511620?s=20&t=JsUPRV3iX3tU2ZWxIuONbg

    Never heard of them until this row. My own schooling obviously lacking.
    Larkin is probably the most famous alumni of my old school.
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,871
    Was it free today at Headingley for those who could get tickets?
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,606
    They were actually going to remove PHILIP LARKIN from the English literature curriculum


    I can guess the rough identity of who they had planned as a replacement
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,187
    Johnson to impose sweeping new steel tariffs on imported steel to win back the red wall

    https://t.co/0lVqUpfnWX
  • Options
    SelebianSelebian Posts: 7,505

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    Education Secretary to tell OCR exam board not to remove Wilfred Larkin and Philip Larkin from the GCSE syllabus

    https://twitter.com/nadhimzahawi/status/1539882196118511620?s=20&t=JsUPRV3iX3tU2ZWxIuONbg

    Wilfred Larkin's poems have a haunting power to them that stays with you long afterwards.
    Not to be confused with Philip Owen's trenches poetry?
    Not having visited the Tweet, I was wondering who Wilfred Larkin was - maybe a brother, father or son of Philip... Was going to put him on my reading list after Topping's praise.
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 25,041
    HYUFD said:

    Johnson to impose sweeping new steel tariffs on imported steel to win back the red wall

    https://t.co/0lVqUpfnWX

    And every manufacturer who uses steel starts looking for a cheaper country to manufacture their products in
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,364
    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    Education Secretary to tell OCR exam board not to remove Wilfred Larkin and Philip Larkin from the GCSE syllabus

    https://twitter.com/nadhimzahawi/status/1539882196118511620?s=20&t=JsUPRV3iX3tU2ZWxIuONbg

    Wilfred Larkin's poems have a haunting power to them that stays with you long afterwards.
    Not to be confused with Philip Owen's trenches poetry?
    I didn't know that the former leader of the SDP wrote poetry.
    I personally liked Seigfried Sassoon. I read Memoirs of a Foxhunting Man for A level. Most remember him for his hairstyling these days.
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 25,041

    Was it free today at Headingley for those who could get tickets?

    yep
  • Options
    londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,230
    Big teams come through 👍
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,187
    edited June 2022
    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    Johnson to impose sweeping new steel tariffs on imported steel to win back the red wall

    https://t.co/0lVqUpfnWX

    And every manufacturer who uses steel starts looking for a cheaper country to manufacture their products in
    The US and EU they will find already have big tariffs on steel imports, especially from China
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,634
    Take that Kiwi losers! Are you watching @Gardenwalker! Number one test team my arse.
  • Options
    kjhkjh Posts: 10,688
    edited June 2022
    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Education Secretary to tell OCR exam board not to remove Wilfred Owen and Philip Larkin from the GCSE syllabus

    https://twitter.com/nadhimzahawi/status/1539882196118511620?s=20&t=JsUPRV3iX3tU2ZWxIuONbg

    Never heard of them until this row. My own schooling obviously lacking.
    In my secondary school I was taught how to dig up weeds in gardening lessons, no English literature.
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,364
    Leon said:

    They were actually going to remove PHILIP LARKIN from the English literature curriculum


    I can guess the rough identity of who they had planned as a replacement

    Well it won't be JK Rowling!
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,606
    Superb

    One of the most satisfying Test series I’ve ever watched
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,427
    Wow, just wow. YJB take a bow.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,079
    First innings Run Rate - 5.37
    Second innings Run Rate - 5.44

    It's going to blow up in their faces against India, isn't it?
    HYUFD said:

    Johnson to impose sweeping new steel tariffs on imported steel to win back the red wall

    https://t.co/0lVqUpfnWX

    Not because it is a good idea then? :)

    Back on the progressive alliance, perhaps this time if they come up with a new name for it it'll finally happen?
  • Options
    MISTYMISTY Posts: 1,594
    Leon said:

    Superb

    One of the most satisfying Test series I’ve ever watched

    Imagine if we could do that to Australia...
  • Options
    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    Education Secretary to tell OCR exam board not to remove Wilfred Larkin and Philip Larkin from the GCSE syllabus

    https://twitter.com/nadhimzahawi/status/1539882196118511620?s=20&t=JsUPRV3iX3tU2ZWxIuONbg

    Wilfred Larkin's poems have a haunting power to them that stays with you long afterwards.
    Not to be confused with Philip Owen's trenches poetry?
    I didn't know that the former leader of the SDP wrote poetry.
    I personally liked Seigfried Sassoon. I read Memoirs of a Foxhunting Man for A level. Most remember him for his hairstyling these days.
    Fabulous book no matter what you think of the subject matter. Don't see it making the syllabus these days

    Sassoon died in 1967 I think and is buried at Mells in Somerset (easy to think he died in WW1)


    SPLASHING along the boggy woods all day,
    And over brambled hedge and holding clay,
    I shall not think of him:
    But when the watery fields grow brown and dim,
    And hounds have lost their fox, and horses tire, 5
    I know that he’ll be with me on my way
    Home through the darkness to the evening fire.
    He’s jumped each stile along the glistening lanes;
    His hand will be upon the mud-soaked reins;
    Hearing the saddle creak, 10
    He’ll wonder if the frost will come next week.
    I shall forget him in the morning light;
    And while we gallop on he will not speak:
    But at the stable-door he’ll say good-night.
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,454
    Heading off to Paris this week. BA say use VeriFLY.

    Downloaded the app and there is an *awful* lot of data importing and sharing requests from them. Anyone on here used/use them?
  • Options
    kjhkjh Posts: 10,688
    MaxPB said:

    Take that Kiwi losers! Are you watching @Gardenwalker! Number one test team my arse.

    Taking a neutral stand there I see Max.
  • Options
    How is this the same team that couldn't bat to save their lives in Grenada, let alone down under, a few months ago?

    Incredible turn around.
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,454
    Leon said:

    Superb

    One of the most satisfying Test series I’ve ever watched

    I never had you down as a cricket fan. Or have you loved the game ever since you allowed Rachel Heyhoe-Flint to pick up a bat.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,606
    IshmaelZ said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    Education Secretary to tell OCR exam board not to remove Wilfred Larkin and Philip Larkin from the GCSE syllabus

    https://twitter.com/nadhimzahawi/status/1539882196118511620?s=20&t=JsUPRV3iX3tU2ZWxIuONbg

    Wilfred Larkin's poems have a haunting power to them that stays with you long afterwards.
    Not to be confused with Philip Owen's trenches poetry?
    I didn't know that the former leader of the SDP wrote poetry.
    I personally liked Seigfried Sassoon. I read Memoirs of a Foxhunting Man for A level. Most remember him for his hairstyling these days.
    Fabulous book no matter what you think of the subject matter. Don't see it making the syllabus these days

    Sassoon died in 1967 I think and is buried at Mells in Somerset (easy to think he died in WW1)


    SPLASHING along the boggy woods all day,
    And over brambled hedge and holding clay,
    I shall not think of him:
    But when the watery fields grow brown and dim,
    And hounds have lost their fox, and horses tire, 5
    I know that he’ll be with me on my way
    Home through the darkness to the evening fire.
    He’s jumped each stile along the glistening lanes;
    His hand will be upon the mud-soaked reins;
    Hearing the saddle creak, 10
    He’ll wonder if the frost will come next week.
    I shall forget him in the morning light;
    And while we gallop on he will not speak:
    But at the stable-door he’ll say good-night.
    It’s a brilliant memoir

    The juxtaposition of thoughtless fox hunting and merciless trench warfare is inspired
  • Options
    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,882
    MaxPB said:

    Take that Kiwi losers! Are you watching @Gardenwalker! Number one test team my arse.

    HYUFD voice: “If you calculate the runs per capita, I think you’ll find NZ won”.

    No l am not watching. I genuinely don’t understand test cricket and am leaving it for my retirement along with Wagner’s Ring Cycle.
  • Options
    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,060
    kle4 said:

    First innings Run Rate - 5.37
    Second innings Run Rate - 5.44

    It's going to blow up in their faces against India, isn't it?

    HYUFD said:

    Johnson to impose sweeping new steel tariffs on imported steel to win back the red wall

    https://t.co/0lVqUpfnWX

    Not because it is a good idea then? :)

    Back on the progressive alliance, perhaps this time if they come up with a new name for it it'll finally happen?
    Isn't this what Geidtgate was all about because it breaches WTO or some such bollocks?

    I doubt whether Johnson cares if it's effective or even if it's actually ever done. Take the headline and move on.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,079

    MaxPB said:

    Take that Kiwi losers! Are you watching @Gardenwalker! Number one test team my arse.

    HYUFD voice: “If you calculate the runs per capita, I think you’ll find NZ won”.

    No l am not watching. I genuinely don’t understand test cricket and am leaving it for my retirement along with Wagner’s Ring Cycle.
    It's fantastic. A truly team sport that still allows for individual heroics, and days long twists and turns.

    Seems to be enjoyed quite a bit by numbers and politics nerds, cyclefree and Sunil excepted.
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,454
    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    Education Secretary to tell OCR exam board not to remove Wilfred Larkin and Philip Larkin from the GCSE syllabus

    https://twitter.com/nadhimzahawi/status/1539882196118511620?s=20&t=JsUPRV3iX3tU2ZWxIuONbg

    Wilfred Larkin's poems have a haunting power to them that stays with you long afterwards.
    Not to be confused with Philip Owen's trenches poetry?
    I didn't know that the former leader of the SDP wrote poetry.
    I personally liked Seigfried Sassoon. I read Memoirs of a Foxhunting Man for A level. Most remember him for his hairstyling these days.
    Fabulous book no matter what you think of the subject matter. Don't see it making the syllabus these days

    Sassoon died in 1967 I think and is buried at Mells in Somerset (easy to think he died in WW1)


    SPLASHING along the boggy woods all day,
    And over brambled hedge and holding clay,
    I shall not think of him:
    But when the watery fields grow brown and dim,
    And hounds have lost their fox, and horses tire, 5
    I know that he’ll be with me on my way
    Home through the darkness to the evening fire.
    He’s jumped each stile along the glistening lanes;
    His hand will be upon the mud-soaked reins;
    Hearing the saddle creak, 10
    He’ll wonder if the frost will come next week.
    I shall forget him in the morning light;
    And while we gallop on he will not speak:
    But at the stable-door he’ll say good-night.
    It’s a brilliant memoir

    The juxtaposition of thoughtless fox hunting and merciless trench warfare is inspired
    "the image of war without its guilt and only five-and-twenty percent of its danger."
  • Options
    Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,400
    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Education Secretary to tell OCR exam board not to remove Wilfred Owen and Philip Larkin from the GCSE syllabus

    https://twitter.com/nadhimzahawi/status/1539882196118511620?s=20&t=JsUPRV3iX3tU2ZWxIuONbg

    Never heard of them until this row. My own schooling obviously lacking.
    OCR? They are an exam board, stands for Oxford, Cambridge, RSA.

    :smiley:
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,871
    TOPPING said:

    Heading off to Paris this week. BA say use VeriFLY.

    Downloaded the app and there is an *awful* lot of data importing and sharing requests from them. Anyone on here used/use them?

    No, we're using My Health Checked from Lloyds pharmacy to get a certified test for our cruise on Sunday. Slightly dubious about how it's going to work since Mrs P and I still tracing very faintly positive from our recent covid bouts.

    Finger-crossed.

    Our friends tested positive the day they were due to fly out to Botswana for a safari a couple of weeks ago. Gutted doesn't begin to describe it.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,079
    Dura_Ace said:

    kle4 said:

    First innings Run Rate - 5.37
    Second innings Run Rate - 5.44

    It's going to blow up in their faces against India, isn't it?

    HYUFD said:

    Johnson to impose sweeping new steel tariffs on imported steel to win back the red wall

    https://t.co/0lVqUpfnWX

    Not because it is a good idea then? :)

    Back on the progressive alliance, perhaps this time if they come up with a new name for it it'll finally happen?
    Isn't this what Geidtgate was all about because it breaches WTO or some such bollocks?

    I doubt whether Johnson cares if it's effective or even if it's actually ever done. Take the headline and move on.
    You keep giving advice like that and he'll offer you a place in the Cabinet as Frost's replacement.
  • Options
    SirNorfolkPassmoreSirNorfolkPassmore Posts: 6,362
    edited June 2022
    On topic, there are three problems with the analysis:

    1. In four of the five cases cited, Labour was the incumbent party, so both Tory and Lib Dems were unified in not wanting the incumbent back in. This partly explains second choices. The only case where the Tory was the incumbent, Cambridgeshire, is the one where Lib Dems overwhelmingly backed Labour as second choice. Given advocates for a progressive alliance generally want it in Tory held marginals, you'd expect these to have far more in common with Cambridgeshire than the other cases cited.

    2. A progressive alliance involves explicit endorsement of one party by another in a seat. Of course, you'd not expect all Lib Dems to pay attention to an endorsement by the Lib Dems of a Labour candidate - quite a few wouldn't. But you have to suspect that some of the people who voted Lib Dem first, Tory second, would follow the recommendation in such circumstances. So the figures for the split in the examples cited are very probably over-generous to the Tories - a ceiling on the Lib Dems they'd win over, not a floor.

    3. All five examples given involve more Lib Dems going for Labour as second choice than the Conservatives. So they suggest that (even ignoring points 1 and 2) Lib Dems standing down would help Labour. It may very well not help nearly as much as advocates for a progressive alliance claim and you can't just add the Lib Dem vote to the Labour vote but, in a marginal seat, small differences matter. None of the five cases suggest Lib Dems standing down would harm the "progressive" candidate.

    So yes, it's inconvenient for a simplistic advocate of a progressive alliance that you can't just add the Labour and Lib Dem votes together. But none of it suggests that they are wrong that their suggestion would help to beat the Tories.

    There are arguments against a progressive alliance. You can say it limits choice. You can say people resent it and may vote Tory just to spite you (I've seen precious little evidence this is realistic, but accept it's possible). But the evidence OGH has presented is actually broadly supportive of it.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,079

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Education Secretary to tell OCR exam board not to remove Wilfred Owen and Philip Larkin from the GCSE syllabus

    https://twitter.com/nadhimzahawi/status/1539882196118511620?s=20&t=JsUPRV3iX3tU2ZWxIuONbg

    Never heard of them until this row. My own schooling obviously lacking.
    OCR? They are an exam board, stands for Oxford, Cambridge, RSA.

    :smiley:
    More of an EdExcel man.
This discussion has been closed.