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The data the advocates of a “progressive alliance” ignore – politicalbetting.com

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  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,402
    HYUFD said:

    Education Secretary to tell OCR exam board not to remove Wilfred Owen and Philip Larkin from the GCSE syllabus

    https://twitter.com/nadhimzahawi/status/1539882196118511620?s=20&t=JsUPRV3iX3tU2ZWxIuONbg

    Studied neither at either O or A level.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    On topic: It's not symmetrical. A fairly high proportion of LD voters might well prefer Con to Lab, although, as others have pointed out, the current Boris effect and elimination of the previous Corbyn effect must mean that this proportion is far lower now than it was at GE2017 and GE2019. The LibDems tend to be already well squeezed in Con/Lab marginals, so the benefit to Labour of further tactical voting won't be very big, although evey little helps.

    However, that really isn't the point: it's the tactical voting of Labour supporters in Con-held seats where the LibDems are the main contenders which really matters, both to the LibDems obviously and to Labour's chance of forming the next government. And I think you can be pretty confident that the vast majority of Labour voters will prefer the LibDems to Boris Tories.

    So whilst we won't see a formal deal between the two parties, a tacit agreement not to strive too officiously to get votes in each other's target seats makes perfect sense, and in any case is just good allocation of resources.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    Stratford-upon-Avon *should* be great. As in UNESCO quality great.

    Sadly it’s just a tad crap.

    If I was dictator of Britain I would also appoint myself as a kind of Viollet-le-Duc, restoring things to their proper potential.

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    Dan Hannan watching in horror as his vision of Brexit increasingly drifts further away as Boris turns protectionist, shafting Brexiteer libertarians like Hannan and Cummings to try and regain the redwall
    https://twitter.com/DanielJHannan/status/1541029462405439488?s=20&t=JsUPRV3iX3tU2ZWxIuONbg
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,058

    MaxPB said:

    Take that Kiwi losers! Are you watching @Gardenwalker! Number one test team my arse.

    HYUFD voice: “If you calculate the runs per capita, I think you’ll find NZ won”.

    No l am not watching. I genuinely don’t understand test cricket and am leaving it for my retirement along with Wagner’s Ring Cycle.
    Neil Wagner?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,958
    kjh said:

    MaxPB said:

    Take that Kiwi losers! Are you watching @Gardenwalker! Number one test team my arse.

    Taking a neutral stand there I see Max.
    After the Ibrox home crowd when they're 2 down at half time, I've always thought England cricket fans were the most fickle. It's either 'we're fooking crap' or 'girfuy looosers', nothing in between.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957

    TOPPING said:

    Heading off to Paris this week. BA say use VeriFLY.

    Downloaded the app and there is an *awful* lot of data importing and sharing requests from them. Anyone on here used/use them?

    No, we're using My Health Checked from Lloyds pharmacy to get a certified test for our cruise on Sunday. Slightly dubious about how it's going to work since Mrs P and I still tracing very faintly positive from our recent covid bouts.

    Finger-crossed.

    Our friends tested positive the day they were due to fly out to Botswana for a safari a couple of weeks ago. Gutted doesn't begin to describe it.
    I have previously (and successfully) used Confirm Testing - whereby they validate your test result. But BA suggested VeriFLY. Just that you need to agree with a lot of data sharing to proceed. I think I'll take my chances at check in.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    Education Secretary to tell OCR exam board not to remove Wilfred Larkin and Philip Larkin from the GCSE syllabus

    https://twitter.com/nadhimzahawi/status/1539882196118511620?s=20&t=JsUPRV3iX3tU2ZWxIuONbg

    Wilfred Larkin's poems have a haunting power to them that stays with you long afterwards.
    Not to be confused with Philip Owen's trenches poetry?
    I didn't know that the former leader of the SDP wrote poetry.
    I personally liked Seigfried Sassoon. I read Memoirs of a Foxhunting Man for A level. Most remember him for his hairstyling these days.
    Fabulous book no matter what you think of the subject matter. Don't see it making the syllabus these days

    Sassoon died in 1967 I think and is buried at Mells in Somerset (easy to think he died in WW1)


    SPLASHING along the boggy woods all day,
    And over brambled hedge and holding clay,
    I shall not think of him:
    But when the watery fields grow brown and dim,
    And hounds have lost their fox, and horses tire, 5
    I know that he’ll be with me on my way
    Home through the darkness to the evening fire.
    He’s jumped each stile along the glistening lanes;
    His hand will be upon the mud-soaked reins;
    Hearing the saddle creak, 10
    He’ll wonder if the frost will come next week.
    I shall forget him in the morning light;
    And while we gallop on he will not speak:
    But at the stable-door he’ll say good-night.
    It’s a brilliant memoir

    The juxtaposition of thoughtless fox hunting and merciless trench warfare is inspired
    "the image of war without its guilt and only five-and-twenty percent of its danger."
    Nice quite. Tho the discrepancy in danger is probably a bit wider than that
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,288
    edited June 2022
    kle4 said:

    First innings Run Rate - 5.37
    Second innings Run Rate - 5.44

    It's going to blow up in their faces against India, isn't it?

    My inner voice has been saying, "it won't work at the WACA", to which the reply is "Well, nothing else has".

    If this is now England's standard approach, we're going to get days of stupidity as well as days of glory, but the game as a whole has moved on so much - how cricketers earn their money and, in turn, how they train, practice, develop technique, how the shorter game is played - that maybe it is time to up the aggression levels in Test cricket as well. Yes, there are differences in field placing rules and the like, but it is the same sport still.

    Genuine question: over the last 5 years, have England actually scored better, in total, in test cricket or in 50 over cricket?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,632

    Was it free today at Headingley for those who could get tickets?

    Yes, but you could make a voluntary donation.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    HYUFD said:

    Dan Hannan watching in horror as his vision of Brexit increasingly drifts further away as Boris turns protectionist, shafting Brexiteer libertarians like Hannan and Cummings to try and regain the redwall
    https://twitter.com/DanielJHannan/status/1541029462405439488?s=20&t=JsUPRV3iX3tU2ZWxIuONbg

    Dan Hannan is a total tit.

    The premise that he is some kind of Brexit intellectual who now has to suffer as it is destroyed at the hands of barbarians is a nonsense.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585
    edited June 2022
    Spend half an hour going from work to home, and England make the runs at 8 an over!
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957
    edited June 2022
    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    Education Secretary to tell OCR exam board not to remove Wilfred Larkin and Philip Larkin from the GCSE syllabus

    https://twitter.com/nadhimzahawi/status/1539882196118511620?s=20&t=JsUPRV3iX3tU2ZWxIuONbg

    Wilfred Larkin's poems have a haunting power to them that stays with you long afterwards.
    Not to be confused with Philip Owen's trenches poetry?
    I didn't know that the former leader of the SDP wrote poetry.
    I personally liked Seigfried Sassoon. I read Memoirs of a Foxhunting Man for A level. Most remember him for his hairstyling these days.
    Fabulous book no matter what you think of the subject matter. Don't see it making the syllabus these days

    Sassoon died in 1967 I think and is buried at Mells in Somerset (easy to think he died in WW1)


    SPLASHING along the boggy woods all day,
    And over brambled hedge and holding clay,
    I shall not think of him:
    But when the watery fields grow brown and dim,
    And hounds have lost their fox, and horses tire, 5
    I know that he’ll be with me on my way
    Home through the darkness to the evening fire.
    He’s jumped each stile along the glistening lanes;
    His hand will be upon the mud-soaked reins;
    Hearing the saddle creak, 10
    He’ll wonder if the frost will come next week.
    I shall forget him in the morning light;
    And while we gallop on he will not speak:
    But at the stable-door he’ll say good-night.
    It’s a brilliant memoir

    The juxtaposition of thoughtless fox hunting and merciless trench warfare is inspired
    "the image of war without its guilt and only five-and-twenty percent of its danger."
    Nice quite. Tho the discrepancy in danger is probably a bit wider than that
    It would be interesting to know. Controlling for number of participants and/or time spent at the activity for example. No idea. Someone ( @IshmaelZ looking at you) can crunch the numbers.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,821
    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    Education Secretary to tell OCR exam board not to remove Wilfred Owen and Philip Larkin from the GCSE syllabus

    https://twitter.com/nadhimzahawi/status/1539882196118511620?s=20&t=JsUPRV3iX3tU2ZWxIuONbg

    Studied neither at either O or A level.
    My son managed to get through 5 years of English at a private High School and never studied Shakespeare. They did some fairly crappy Scottish poets though.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821

    HYUFD said:

    Dan Hannan watching in horror as his vision of Brexit increasingly drifts further away as Boris turns protectionist, shafting Brexiteer libertarians like Hannan and Cummings to try and regain the redwall
    https://twitter.com/DanielJHannan/status/1541029462405439488?s=20&t=JsUPRV3iX3tU2ZWxIuONbg

    Dan Hannan is a total tit.

    The premise that he is some kind of Brexit intellectual who now has to suffer as it is destroyed at the hands of barbarians is a nonsense.
    It's very funny, though.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    kle4 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Take that Kiwi losers! Are you watching @Gardenwalker! Number one test team my arse.

    HYUFD voice: “If you calculate the runs per capita, I think you’ll find NZ won”.

    No l am not watching. I genuinely don’t understand test cricket and am leaving it for my retirement along with Wagner’s Ring Cycle.
    It's fantastic. A truly team sport that still allows for individual heroics, and days long twists and turns.

    Seems to be enjoyed quite a bit by numbers and politics nerds, cyclefree and Sunil excepted.
    It will be quite the irony if the white ball format saves Test cricket by making everyone more aggressive, athletic and exuberant

    There is a noticeable transformation
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 21,971
    edited June 2022
    Pro_Rata said:

    kle4 said:

    First innings Run Rate - 5.37
    Second innings Run Rate - 5.44

    It's going to blow up in their faces against India, isn't it?

    My inner voice has been saying, "it won't work at the WACA", to which the reply is "Well, nothing else has".

    If this is now England's standard approach, we're going to get days of stupidity as well as days of glory, but the game as a whole has moved on so much - how cricketers earn.
    their money and, in turn, how they train, practice, develop technique, how the shorter game is played - that maybe it is time to up the aggression levels in Test cricket as well.

    The thing is that padding forwards defensive shots until you nick one that gets caught at slip doesn't score many runs and you still get out.

    A bit of aggression and at least if you get caught, you may have already scored 60 to 70 runs plus by the time you are.

    I'd rather see batters caught at third man than slip.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    On topic: what Nabavi said.

    In the prosperous South, which is where all* the LD targets are, the preference set is clearly focused on removing the Tories at any cost.

    *Apart from those two fancy Manchester seats.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,821

    Stratford-upon-Avon *should* be great. As in UNESCO quality great.

    Sadly it’s just a tad crap.

    If I was dictator of Britain I would also appoint myself as a kind of Viollet-le-Duc, restoring things to their proper potential.

    The thing I most vividly remember about my trip to Stratford-upon-Avon about 30 years ago was by far the best Stilton I have ever eaten. It was absolutely divine but it really shouldn't have been the highlight.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368

    Stratford-upon-Avon *should* be great. As in UNESCO quality great.

    Sadly it’s just a tad crap.

    If I was dictator of Britain I would also appoint myself as a kind of Viollet-le-Duc, restoring things to their proper potential.

    I grew up south of Birmingham and as a child we regularly used to take the family Austin 1100 for a spin around the Forest of Arden, places like Henley, Welford on Avon, Wootton Wawen, Aston Cantlow and picnicking on the River Bank by the Shakespeare theatre. It was a magical place.

    On the way back from the to East Midlands after COVID1 we decided to spend the night at the Mercure Hotel in the town centre...what a disappointment and the grubby half closed/derelict town centre wasn't any better.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    DavidL said:

    Stratford-upon-Avon *should* be great. As in UNESCO quality great.

    Sadly it’s just a tad crap.

    If I was dictator of Britain I would also appoint myself as a kind of Viollet-le-Duc, restoring things to their proper potential.

    The thing I most vividly remember about my trip to Stratford-upon-Avon about 30 years ago was by far the best Stilton I have ever eaten. It was absolutely divine but it really shouldn't have been the highlight.
    Stilton can be very good though.
    Very good.

  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,663

    Stratford-upon-Avon *should* be great. As in UNESCO quality great.

    Sadly it’s just a tad crap.

    If I was dictator of Britain I would also appoint myself as a kind of Viollet-le-Duc, restoring things to their proper potential.

    I'd build a replica of Stonehenge (maybe with all the missing stones) just next to the visitor centre, so well away from the actual stones.

    That way 99% of visitors will get to see 'Stonehenge' as it was, and the actual stones will only get visited by the 1% who can be bothered to trek the mile from the visitor centre.

    Oh, and the A303 can got into its tunnel asap.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,632
    DavidL said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    Education Secretary to tell OCR exam board not to remove Wilfred Owen and Philip Larkin from the GCSE syllabus

    https://twitter.com/nadhimzahawi/status/1539882196118511620?s=20&t=JsUPRV3iX3tU2ZWxIuONbg

    Studied neither at either O or A level.
    My son managed to get through 5 years of English at a private High School and never studied Shakespeare. They did some fairly crappy Scottish poets though.
    That post shows why Scotland isn't ready to be independent.

    No Shakespeare? Not even Mac The Scottish Play?

    I love Shakespeare, so timeless.

    Fully expect him to be cancelled shortly, The Merchant of Venice is so antisemitic it could have been one of Corbyn's top supporters.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,821
    DavidL said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    Education Secretary to tell OCR exam board not to remove Wilfred Owen and Philip Larkin from the GCSE syllabus

    https://twitter.com/nadhimzahawi/status/1539882196118511620?s=20&t=JsUPRV3iX3tU2ZWxIuONbg

    Studied neither at either O or A level.
    My son managed to get through 5 years of English at a private High School and never studied Shakespeare. They did some fairly crappy Scottish poets though.
    And, in fairness, this absolute gem by Norman McCaig called Assisi:

    The dwarf with his hands on backwards
    sat, slumped like a half-filled sack
    on tiny twisted legs from which
    sawdust might run,
    outside the three tiers of churches built
    in honour of St Francis, brother
    of the poor, talker with birds, over whom
    he had the advantage
    of not being dead yet.

    A priest explained
    how clever it was of Giotto
    to make his frescoes tell stories
    that would reveal to the illiterate the goodness
    of God and the suffering
    of His Son. I understood
    the explanation and
    the cleverness.

    A rush of tourists, clucking contentedly,
    fluttered after him as he scattered
    the grain of the Word. It was they who had passed
    the ruined temple outside, whose eyes
    wept pus, whose back was higher
    than his head, whose lopsided mouth
    said Grazie in a voice as sweet
    as a child’s when she speaks to her mother
    or a bird’s when it spoke
    to St Francis.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    edited June 2022

    Stratford-upon-Avon *should* be great. As in UNESCO quality great.

    Sadly it’s just a tad crap.

    If I was dictator of Britain I would also appoint myself as a kind of Viollet-le-Duc, restoring things to their proper potential.

    I grew up south of Birmingham and as a child we regularly used to take the family Austin 1100 for a spin around the Forest of Arden, places like Henley, Welford on Avon, Wootton Wawen, Aston Cantlow and picnicking on the River Bank by the Shakespeare theatre. It was a magical place.

    On the way back from the to East Midlands after COVID1 we decided to spend the night at the Mercure Hotel in the town centre...what a disappointment and the grubby half closed/derelict town centre wasn't any better.
    I went there last summer as we were in the Cotswolds and it’s not far away.

    We had a nice enough time, but it’s disappointing considering it’s the literal birthplace of the greatest Englishman of all time. We emerged into the market by the canal, which was focused on selling utter tat, and featured a “DJ” who played things like The Final Countdown because it was requested by “Sharon from Dudley”.

    Your childhood itinerary sounds marvellous.
  • DavidL said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    Education Secretary to tell OCR exam board not to remove Wilfred Owen and Philip Larkin from the GCSE syllabus

    https://twitter.com/nadhimzahawi/status/1539882196118511620?s=20&t=JsUPRV3iX3tU2ZWxIuONbg

    Studied neither at either O or A level.
    My son managed to get through 5 years of English at a private High School and never studied Shakespeare. They did some fairly crappy Scottish poets though.
    That post shows why Scotland isn't ready to be independent.

    No Shakespeare? Not even Mac The Scottish Play?

    I love Shakespeare, so timeless.

    Fully expect him to be cancelled shortly, The Merchant of Venice is so antisemitic it could have been one of Corbyn's top supporters.
    The Merchant of Venice is so antisemitic, which is precisely why it should be studied - not just for literature purposes but for learning about antisemitism, tropes etc and critical thinking even on old literature of its time.
  • LDLFLDLF Posts: 160
    Stocky said:

    Good header. I vote LibDem but would have CP as second pref ahead of LP in normal times. Johnson is not normal times though. Agree with Mike that LibDems like me are more numerous than is assumed.

    I agree very much with this and would also count myself among this number.

    It is also important for the Lib Dems not to commit to working only with one of the large parties. To say they would only work with Labour would leave them no negotiating leverage were they to hold the balance of power.

    If Starmer knows they would automatically support him, he has no need to offer them anything.

    The Lib Dems' best tactic is not to enter formal alliance with Labour and leave open the possibility of working with either. The electorate is sophisticated enough to work within the current electoral system to create its own 'progressive alliance' if it wants to.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,632
    Talking about getting cancelled

    A group of BBC staff have sent a letter of no confidence in the Director General of the organisation and the entire management of the sports department over the decision to use Michael Vaughan as part of the coverage of cricket.

    The letter - sent by the BBC Sport BAME Advisory Group and 5 Live Diversity Group - brands the decision to utilise Vaughan as "totally inexcusable" and "damaging, embarrassing and unsettling" to "many colleagues across BBC Sport and the BBC as a whole".

    The BBC suspended Vaughan, the former England captain, from their Ashes coverage when it first became clear he had been implicated in allegations of racism at Yorkshire. But he was invited to return to their Test Match Special coverage ahead of the series between England and New Zealand and continued to work for the organisation at the Leeds Test after it emerged he had been charged by the ECB’s Cricket Disciplinary Commission (CDC).

    The letter describes that decision as "a shocking miscalculation" which has undermined the progress the BBC has made in building inclusivity over the last couple of years. As a result, the authors say they feel "utter desperation" at a situation which has left them "exhausted… and "feeling that we just aren't being listened to."


    https://www.thecricketer.com/Topics/england/michael_vaughan_return_triggers_letter_no_confidence_from_bbc_staff.html
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,994

    On topic: what Nabavi said.

    In the prosperous South, which is where all* the LD targets are, the preference set is clearly focused on removing the Tories at any cost.

    *Apart from those two fancy Manchester seats.

    Yes, and the fact is people vote LD at different times for different reasons. There are relatively few lifetime supporters / members and I've found they do come at things from different directions. Some are essentially old style pro-EU Tories, others are libertarian left wingers, still more (I would include myself) are capital L Liberals who find both the traditionalist authoritarianism of the Tories and the statist authoritarianism of Labour not to their taste.

    But Lib Dem voters are different from Lib Dem members. I expect in 2024 most will be voting first and foremost to turf the Tories out.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821


    Fully expect him to be cancelled shortly, The Merchant of Venice is so antisemitic it could have been one of Corbyn's top supporters.

    Up to a point:

    I am a Jew. Hath not a Jew eyes? Hath not a Jew hands, organs, dimensions, senses, affections, passions? Fed with the same food, hurt with the same weapons, subject to the same diseases, healed by the same means, warmed and cooled by the same winter and summer, as a Christian is? If you prick us, do we not bleed? If you tickle us, do we not laugh? If you poison us, do we not die? And if you wrong us, shall we not revenge? If we are like you in the rest, we will resemble you in that. If a Jew wrong a Christian, what is his humility? Revenge. If a Christian wrong a Jew, what should his sufferance be by Christian example?Why, revenge. The villainy you teach me I will execute, and it shall go hard but I will better the instruction.

  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,958
    edited June 2022
    IshmaelZ said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    Education Secretary to tell OCR exam board not to remove Wilfred Larkin and Philip Larkin from the GCSE syllabus

    https://twitter.com/nadhimzahawi/status/1539882196118511620?s=20&t=JsUPRV3iX3tU2ZWxIuONbg

    Wilfred Larkin's poems have a haunting power to them that stays with you long afterwards.
    Not to be confused with Philip Owen's trenches poetry?
    I didn't know that the former leader of the SDP wrote poetry.
    I personally liked Seigfried Sassoon. I read Memoirs of a Foxhunting Man for A level. Most remember him for his hairstyling these days.
    Fabulous book no matter what you think of the subject matter. Don't see it making the syllabus these days

    Sassoon died in 1967 I think and is buried at Mells in Somerset (easy to think he died in WW1)


    SPLASHING along the boggy woods all day,
    And over brambled hedge and holding clay,
    I shall not think of him:
    But when the watery fields grow brown and dim,
    And hounds have lost their fox, and horses tire, 5
    I know that he’ll be with me on my way
    Home through the darkness to the evening fire.
    He’s jumped each stile along the glistening lanes;
    His hand will be upon the mud-soaked reins;
    Hearing the saddle creak, 10
    He’ll wonder if the frost will come next week.
    I shall forget him in the morning light;
    And while we gallop on he will not speak:
    But at the stable-door he’ll say good-night.
    I think his après Great War life is almost as interesting. The Tennant affair is striking, slight shades of Wilde and Bosie, ie a great artist consumed by a fairly ephemeral person. He was an odd bird which I think is slightly concealed by the great defining and life-altering experience of the war.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    edited June 2022

    Stratford-upon-Avon *should* be great. As in UNESCO quality great.

    Sadly it’s just a tad crap.

    If I was dictator of Britain I would also appoint myself as a kind of Viollet-le-Duc, restoring things to their proper potential.

    I'd build a replica of Stonehenge (maybe with all the missing stones) just next to the visitor centre, so well away from the actual stones.

    That way 99% of visitors will get to see 'Stonehenge' as it was, and the actual stones will only get visited by the 1% who can be bothered to trek the mile from the visitor centre.

    Oh, and the A303 can got into its tunnel asap.
    Like others, I have refused to visit Stonehenge because I know I will be depressed and disappointed.

    Of course I have driven past.

    My modest proposal is to open it to the public between 5am and 7am only.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298

    DavidL said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    Education Secretary to tell OCR exam board not to remove Wilfred Owen and Philip Larkin from the GCSE syllabus

    https://twitter.com/nadhimzahawi/status/1539882196118511620?s=20&t=JsUPRV3iX3tU2ZWxIuONbg

    Studied neither at either O or A level.
    My son managed to get through 5 years of English at a private High School and never studied Shakespeare. They did some fairly crappy Scottish poets though.
    That post shows why Scotland isn't ready to be independent.

    No Shakespeare? Not even Mac The Scottish Play?

    I love Shakespeare, so timeless.

    Fully expect him to be cancelled shortly, The Merchant of Venice is so antisemitic it could have been one of Corbyn's top supporters.
    The Merchant of Venice is so antisemitic, which is precisely why it should be studied - not just for literature purposes but for learning about antisemitism, tropes etc and critical thinking even on old literature of its time.
    Oh how dull.
    Just luxuriate first of all in the language.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,094

    Talking about getting cancelled

    A group of BBC staff have sent a letter of no confidence in the Director General of the organisation and the entire management of the sports department over the decision to use Michael Vaughan as part of the coverage of cricket.

    The letter - sent by the BBC Sport BAME Advisory Group and 5 Live Diversity Group - brands the decision to utilise Vaughan as "totally inexcusable" and "damaging, embarrassing and unsettling" to "many colleagues across BBC Sport and the BBC as a whole".

    The BBC suspended Vaughan, the former England captain, from their Ashes coverage when it first became clear he had been implicated in allegations of racism at Yorkshire. But he was invited to return to their Test Match Special coverage ahead of the series between England and New Zealand and continued to work for the organisation at the Leeds Test after it emerged he had been charged by the ECB’s Cricket Disciplinary Commission (CDC).

    The letter describes that decision as "a shocking miscalculation" which has undermined the progress the BBC has made in building inclusivity over the last couple of years. As a result, the authors say they feel "utter desperation" at a situation which has left them "exhausted… and "feeling that we just aren't being listened to."


    https://www.thecricketer.com/Topics/england/michael_vaughan_return_triggers_letter_no_confidence_from_bbc_staff.html

    What the heck is a 'letter of no confidence' in a hierarchical, non-democratic organisation?

    I know a 'You're wrong and we'd like you to quit' (I presume) letter is essentially the same thing, but still, sounds weird in this context.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,705
    edited June 2022
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    Education Secretary to tell OCR exam board not to remove Wilfred Owen and Philip Larkin from the GCSE syllabus

    https://twitter.com/nadhimzahawi/status/1539882196118511620?s=20&t=JsUPRV3iX3tU2ZWxIuONbg

    Studied neither at either O or A level.
    My son managed to get through 5 years of English at a private High School and never studied Shakespeare. They did some fairly crappy Scottish poets though.
    And, in fairness, this absolute gem by Norman McCaig called Assisi:

    The dwarf with his hands on backwards
    sat, slumped like a half-filled sack
    on tiny twisted legs from which
    sawdust might run,
    outside the three tiers of churches built
    in honour of St Francis, brother
    of the poor, talker with birds, over whom
    he had the advantage
    of not being dead yet.

    A priest explained
    how clever it was of Giotto
    to make his frescoes tell stories
    that would reveal to the illiterate the goodness
    of God and the suffering
    of His Son. I understood
    the explanation and
    the cleverness.

    A rush of tourists, clucking contentedly,
    fluttered after him as he scattered
    the grain of the Word. It was they who had passed
    the ruined temple outside, whose eyes
    wept pus, whose back was higher
    than his head, whose lopsided mouth
    said Grazie in a voice as sweet
    as a child’s when she speaks to her mother
    or a bird’s when it spoke
    to St Francis.
    That takes me back! I remember studying that poem myself in English (I assume it was Higher English).
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,821

    DavidL said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    Education Secretary to tell OCR exam board not to remove Wilfred Owen and Philip Larkin from the GCSE syllabus

    https://twitter.com/nadhimzahawi/status/1539882196118511620?s=20&t=JsUPRV3iX3tU2ZWxIuONbg

    Studied neither at either O or A level.
    My son managed to get through 5 years of English at a private High School and never studied Shakespeare. They did some fairly crappy Scottish poets though.
    That post shows why Scotland isn't ready to be independent.

    No Shakespeare? Not even Mac The Scottish Play?

    I love Shakespeare, so timeless.

    Fully expect him to be cancelled shortly, The Merchant of Venice is so antisemitic it could have been one of Corbyn's top supporters.
    It was an incredible turnaround for me, when I was at school a Shakespeare play every year was absolutely core.

    And he really is everyman. There is a lot that is anti-Semitic about Merchant of Venice and yet

    "I am a Jew. Hath not a Jew eyes? hath not a Jew hands, organs, dimensions, senses, affections, passions? fed with the same food, hurt with the same weapons, subject to the same diseases, healed by the same means, warmed and cooled by the same winter and summer, as a Christian is? If you prick us, do we not bleed? if you tickle us, do we not laugh? if you poison us, do we not die? and if you wrong us, shall we not revenge? If we are like you in the rest, we will resemble you in that. If a Jew wrong a Christian, what is his humility? Revenge. If a Christian wrong a Jew, what should his sufferance be by Christian example? Why, revenge. The villainy you teach me, I will execute, and it shall go hard but I will better the instruction."

    One of the greatest speeches about the humanity of all mankind ever.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,705

    Stratford-upon-Avon *should* be great. As in UNESCO quality great.

    Sadly it’s just a tad crap.

    If I was dictator of Britain I would also appoint myself as a kind of Viollet-le-Duc, restoring things to their proper potential.

    I'd build a replica of Stonehenge (maybe with all the missing stones) just next to the visitor centre, so well away from the actual stones.

    That way 99% of visitors will get to see 'Stonehenge' as it was, and the actual stones will only get visited by the 1% who can be bothered to trek the mile from the visitor centre.

    Oh, and the A303 can got into its tunnel asap.
    Like others, I have refused to visit Stonehenge because I know I will be depressed and disappointed.

    Of course I have driven past.

    My modest proposal is to open it to the public between 5am and 7am only.
    I'd go visit the Callanish stones or the Ring of Brodgar instead, to be honest.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,402
    edited June 2022
    English Lit.
    You can either have breadth or depth not both.
    You can go through your entire school life without ever encountering some of the real titans (although Shakespeare seems extreme). And devote a term to a single novel.
    Or. You can do what my Canadian High School did.
    Which was have a textbook which devoted a double page to each author.
    And allocated a single 50 minute lesson to each. Biography. List of famous works. And a couple of paragraphs of text out of context.
    I know which one I'd prefer.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,994

    Stratford-upon-Avon *should* be great. As in UNESCO quality great.

    Sadly it’s just a tad crap.

    If I was dictator of Britain I would also appoint myself as a kind of Viollet-le-Duc, restoring things to their proper potential.

    I grew up south of Birmingham and as a child we regularly used to take the family Austin 1100 for a spin around the Forest of Arden, places like Henley, Welford on Avon, Wootton Wawen, Aston Cantlow and picnicking on the River Bank by the Shakespeare theatre. It was a magical place.

    On the way back from the to East Midlands after COVID1 we decided to spend the night at the Mercure Hotel in the town centre...what a disappointment and the grubby half closed/derelict town centre wasn't any better.
    I went there last summer as we were in the Cotswolds and it’s not far away.

    We had a nice enough time, but it’s disappointing considering it’s the literal birthplace of the greatest Englishman of all time. We emerged into the market by the canal, which was focused on selling utter tat, and featured a “DJ” who played things like The Final Countdown because it was requested by “Sharon from Dudley”.

    Your childhood itinerary sounds marvellous.
    It's definitely mediocre as historical towns go. Just within its little corner of the Midlands it is beaten for attractiveness by Warwick, Kenilworth and several Cotswold towns.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,821

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    Education Secretary to tell OCR exam board not to remove Wilfred Owen and Philip Larkin from the GCSE syllabus

    https://twitter.com/nadhimzahawi/status/1539882196118511620?s=20&t=JsUPRV3iX3tU2ZWxIuONbg

    Studied neither at either O or A level.
    My son managed to get through 5 years of English at a private High School and never studied Shakespeare. They did some fairly crappy Scottish poets though.
    And, in fairness, this absolute gem by Norman McCaig called Assisi:

    The dwarf with his hands on backwards
    sat, slumped like a half-filled sack
    on tiny twisted legs from which
    sawdust might run,
    outside the three tiers of churches built
    in honour of St Francis, brother
    of the poor, talker with birds, over whom
    he had the advantage
    of not being dead yet.

    A priest explained
    how clever it was of Giotto
    to make his frescoes tell stories
    that would reveal to the illiterate the goodness
    of God and the suffering
    of His Son. I understood
    the explanation and
    the cleverness.

    A rush of tourists, clucking contentedly,
    fluttered after him as he scattered
    the grain of the Word. It was they who had passed
    the ruined temple outside, whose eyes
    wept pus, whose back was higher
    than his head, whose lopsided mouth
    said Grazie in a voice as sweet
    as a child’s when she speaks to her mother
    or a bird’s when it spoke
    to St Francis.
    That takes me back! I remember studying that poem myself in English (I assume it was Higher English).
    It was. I think it is really a superb poem.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,821


    Fully expect him to be cancelled shortly, The Merchant of Venice is so antisemitic it could have been one of Corbyn's top supporters.

    Up to a point:

    I am a Jew. Hath not a Jew eyes? Hath not a Jew hands, organs, dimensions, senses, affections, passions? Fed with the same food, hurt with the same weapons, subject to the same diseases, healed by the same means, warmed and cooled by the same winter and summer, as a Christian is? If you prick us, do we not bleed? If you tickle us, do we not laugh? If you poison us, do we not die? And if you wrong us, shall we not revenge? If we are like you in the rest, we will resemble you in that. If a Jew wrong a Christian, what is his humility? Revenge. If a Christian wrong a Jew, what should his sufferance be by Christian example?Why, revenge. The villainy you teach me I will execute, and it shall go hard but I will better the instruction.

    Snap! Sorry I didn't see your contribution until I refreshed.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298

    Stratford-upon-Avon *should* be great. As in UNESCO quality great.

    Sadly it’s just a tad crap.

    If I was dictator of Britain I would also appoint myself as a kind of Viollet-le-Duc, restoring things to their proper potential.

    I'd build a replica of Stonehenge (maybe with all the missing stones) just next to the visitor centre, so well away from the actual stones.

    That way 99% of visitors will get to see 'Stonehenge' as it was, and the actual stones will only get visited by the 1% who can be bothered to trek the mile from the visitor centre.

    Oh, and the A303 can got into its tunnel asap.
    Like others, I have refused to visit Stonehenge because I know I will be depressed and disappointed.

    Of course I have driven past.

    My modest proposal is to open it to the public between 5am and 7am only.
    I'd go visit the Callanish stones or the Ring of
    Brodgar instead, to be honest.
    I would, but I refuse to believe the Ring of Brodgar exists outside a Tolkien book.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,663
    Paging PB brains trust:

    I'm thinking of getting a decent pair of binoculars for sightseeing, occasional informal bird and wildlife watching. They need to be compact, light, portable and robust.

    I have some old Olympus 8 x 22 RCIIs, which are ideal from a size and lightness viewpoint (hah!) but I don't feel they are as sharp as they could be.

    Any suggestions on spec and make?

    Cheers
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,497

    Stratford-upon-Avon *should* be great. As in UNESCO quality great.

    Sadly it’s just a tad crap.

    If I was dictator of Britain I would also appoint myself as a kind of Viollet-le-Duc, restoring things to their proper potential.

    I grew up south of Birmingham and as a child we regularly used to take the family Austin 1100 for a spin around the Forest of Arden, places like Henley, Welford on Avon, Wootton Wawen, Aston Cantlow and picnicking on the River Bank by the Shakespeare theatre. It was a magical place.

    On the way back from the to East Midlands after COVID1 we decided to spend the night at the Mercure Hotel in the town centre...what a disappointment and the grubby half closed/derelict town centre wasn't any better.
    Never return to magical places.
    It's all in George Orwell. Coming Up for Air.

  • Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Take that Kiwi losers! Are you watching @Gardenwalker! Number one test team my arse.

    HYUFD voice: “If you calculate the runs per capita, I think you’ll find NZ won”.

    No l am not watching. I genuinely don’t understand test cricket and am leaving it for my retirement along with Wagner’s Ring Cycle.
    It's fantastic. A truly team sport that still allows for individual heroics, and days long twists and turns.

    Seems to be enjoyed quite a bit by numbers and politics nerds, cyclefree and Sunil excepted.
    It will be quite the irony if the white ball format saves Test cricket by making everyone more aggressive, athletic and exuberant

    There is a noticeable transformation
    It feels a bit early to say whether this will work longer term or whether New Zealand simply allowed themselves to be bullied too easily and lacked a response others may well quickly work out (no disrespect to NZ - they are third ranked Test nation for a reason - it's just that they were taken by surprise given this is new from England, had no plan B, and their heads dropped rather badly when the bat started flying).

    My instinct is that you need multiple gears, and England may not have them, however fun it is when it comes off.

    However, it does call into question a longstanding assumption that you have to play a defensive game of rope a dope when under pressure, wait for the other side to tire, then come out fighting. It's an approach, but there are others.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,632
    Take back control from our unelected rulers.

    She's just giving Prince Charles all the precedents he needs to interfere when he becomes King.

    A Scottish government memo obtained by the Guardian reveals that “it is almost certain” draft laws have been secretly changed to secure the Queen’s approval.

    Under an arcane mechanism known as Queen’s consent, the monarch is routinely given advance sight of proposed laws that could affect her personal property and public powers. Unlike the better-known procedure of royal assent, a formality that marks the moment when a bill becomes law, Queen’s consent must be sought before the relevant legislation can be approved by parliament.

    A Guardian investigation last year revealed the Queen’s consent procedure had been used by the monarch in recent decades to privately lobby for changes to proposed UK legislation. In Scotland, where the procedure is known as crown consent, research by the Guardian identified at least 67 instances in which Scottish bills were vetted by the Queen.


    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/jun/27/queen-secret-influence-laws-revealed-scottish-government-memo

    Who elected this uneducated philistine?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    ** Chopper's Politics Newsletter **

    Mid-afternoon state of play report from Parliament where Boris Johnson's future dominates discussions with MPs
    There is blood in the water and the sharks are circling ...
    Sign up here: http://telegraph.co.uk/politicsnewsletter https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1541422974980575232/photo/1
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,821
    kle4 said:

    Talking about getting cancelled

    A group of BBC staff have sent a letter of no confidence in the Director General of the organisation and the entire management of the sports department over the decision to use Michael Vaughan as part of the coverage of cricket.

    The letter - sent by the BBC Sport BAME Advisory Group and 5 Live Diversity Group - brands the decision to utilise Vaughan as "totally inexcusable" and "damaging, embarrassing and unsettling" to "many colleagues across BBC Sport and the BBC as a whole".

    The BBC suspended Vaughan, the former England captain, from their Ashes coverage when it first became clear he had been implicated in allegations of racism at Yorkshire. But he was invited to return to their Test Match Special coverage ahead of the series between England and New Zealand and continued to work for the organisation at the Leeds Test after it emerged he had been charged by the ECB’s Cricket Disciplinary Commission (CDC).

    The letter describes that decision as "a shocking miscalculation" which has undermined the progress the BBC has made in building inclusivity over the last couple of years. As a result, the authors say they feel "utter desperation" at a situation which has left them "exhausted… and "feeling that we just aren't being listened to."


    https://www.thecricketer.com/Topics/england/michael_vaughan_return_triggers_letter_no_confidence_from_bbc_staff.html

    What the heck is a 'letter of no confidence' in a hierarchical, non-democratic organisation?

    I know a 'You're wrong and we'd like you to quit' (I presume) letter is essentially the same thing, but still, sounds weird in this context.
    Or even "you're wrong and I quit" which would be more impressive. All else is grandstanding.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,994

    Stratford-upon-Avon *should* be great. As in UNESCO quality great.

    Sadly it’s just a tad crap.

    If I was dictator of Britain I would also appoint myself as a kind of Viollet-le-Duc, restoring things to their proper potential.

    I'd build a replica of Stonehenge (maybe with all the missing stones) just next to the visitor centre, so well away from the actual stones.

    That way 99% of visitors will get to see 'Stonehenge' as it was, and the actual stones will only get visited by the 1% who can be bothered to trek the mile from the visitor centre.

    Oh, and the A303 can got into its tunnel asap.
    Like others, I have refused to visit Stonehenge because I know I will be depressed and disappointed.

    Of course I have driven past.

    My modest proposal is to open it to the public between 5am and 7am only.
    I'd go visit the Callanish stones or the Ring of Brodgar instead, to be honest.
    Driving past Stonehenge on the A303 is though a surreal and memorable experience, particularly if it takes you by surprise. Perhaps that's the best way to see it: driving on a sunny late afternoon or early morning en-route to the South West.

    A colleague of mine was driving a few years ago up the A303 at 5am on the way from Somerset to a morning meeting in London and was shocked to find himself in a huge traffic jam near the stones, then remembered it was the summer solstice.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    dixiedean said:

    English Lit.
    You can either have breadth or depth not both.
    You can go through your entire school life without ever encountering some of the real titans (although Shakespeare seems extreme).
    Or. You can do what my Canadian High School did.
    Which was have a textbook which devoted a double page to each author.
    And devote a single 50 minute lesson to each. Biography. List of famous works. And a couple of paragraphs of text out of context.
    I know which one I'd prefer.

    No participation certificates for the written word. If you want to be studied, write the most goodest like what the bard guy done.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    Education Secretary to tell OCR exam board not to remove Wilfred Larkin and Philip Larkin from the GCSE syllabus

    https://twitter.com/nadhimzahawi/status/1539882196118511620?s=20&t=JsUPRV3iX3tU2ZWxIuONbg

    Wilfred Larkin's poems have a haunting power to them that stays with you long afterwards.
    Not to be confused with Philip Owen's trenches poetry?
    I didn't know that the former leader of the SDP wrote poetry.
    I personally liked Seigfried Sassoon. I read Memoirs of a Foxhunting Man for A level. Most remember him for his hairstyling these days.
    Fabulous book no matter what you think of the subject matter. Don't see it making the syllabus these days

    Sassoon died in 1967 I think and is buried at Mells in Somerset (easy to think he died in WW1)


    SPLASHING along the boggy woods all day,
    And over brambled hedge and holding clay,
    I shall not think of him:
    But when the watery fields grow brown and dim,
    And hounds have lost their fox, and horses tire, 5
    I know that he’ll be with me on my way
    Home through the darkness to the evening fire.
    He’s jumped each stile along the glistening lanes;
    His hand will be upon the mud-soaked reins;
    Hearing the saddle creak, 10
    He’ll wonder if the frost will come next week.
    I shall forget him in the morning light;
    And while we gallop on he will not speak:
    But at the stable-door he’ll say good-night.
    It’s a brilliant memoir

    The juxtaposition of thoughtless fox hunting and merciless trench warfare is inspired
    "the image of war without its guilt and only five-and-twenty percent of its danger."
    Nice quite. Tho the discrepancy in danger is probably a bit wider than that
    It would be interesting to know. Controlling for number of participants and/or time spent at the activity for example. No idea. Someone ( @IshmaelZ looking at you) can crunch the numbers.
    Back in the 80s and 90s when sabbing was quite violent (now it's all just videoing stuff on phones) the discrepancy was smaller. I've beat the fuck out of hunters and their serfs while also being on the receiving end a few times. Wonderful stuff.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,094

    Take back control from our unelected rulers.

    She's just giving Prince Charles all the precedents he needs to interfere when he becomes King.

    A Scottish government memo obtained by the Guardian reveals that “it is almost certain” draft laws have been secretly changed to secure the Queen’s approval.

    Under an arcane mechanism known as Queen’s consent, the monarch is routinely given advance sight of proposed laws that could affect her personal property and public powers. Unlike the better-known procedure of royal assent, a formality that marks the moment when a bill becomes law, Queen’s consent must be sought before the relevant legislation can be approved by parliament.

    A Guardian investigation last year revealed the Queen’s consent procedure had been used by the monarch in recent decades to privately lobby for changes to proposed UK legislation. In Scotland, where the procedure is known as crown consent, research by the Guardian identified at least 67 instances in which Scottish bills were vetted by the Queen.


    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/jun/27/queen-secret-influence-laws-revealed-scottish-government-memo

    Who elected this uneducated philistine?

    This story seems to get reused every couple of months.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,632
    dixiedean said:

    English Lit.
    You can either have breadth or depth not both.
    You can go through your entire school life without ever encountering some of the real titans (although Shakespeare seems extreme). And devote a term to a single novel.
    Or. You can do what my Canadian High School did.
    Which was have a textbook which devoted a double page to each author.
    And allocated a single 50 minute lesson to each. Biography. List of famous works. And a couple of paragraphs of text out of context.
    I know which one I'd prefer.

    English Lit is disappearing from universities thanks to the government.

    English literature is being suspended as a degree at a university amid pressure from government to ensure graduates go straight into well-paid jobs.

    James Graham, the playwright behind the television drama Sherwood, was among those criticising Sheffield Hallam University for suspending the course. At least two other universities, Roehampton and Wolverhampton, have announced planned closures of arts and humanities programmes and UCU, the lecturers’ union, has said that jobs in those areas are at risk at De Montfort and Huddersfield universities.

    Humanities subjects have fallen in popularity over the past decade. In English studies, acceptances declined from 10,020 in 2011 to 6,980 in 2020; in history and philosophical studies they fell from 15,060 to 12,870.

    The Office for Students announced measures this year under which universities in England could be penalised, ultimately with fines or limits on student loan funding, if fewer than 75 per cent of undergraduates finish their qualification and fewer than 60 per cent are in professional employment or further study within 15 months of graduating.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/graduate-jobs-target-risks-killing-off-english-literature-degrees-vnhwkczrg
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,361
    Mortimer said:

    I see some of the hand wringing public health lobby are pushing for another Covid booster (for younger adults too) in the autumn.

    Are they not seeing all their friends and family getting Covid and recovering? 95% of my mates have had it in the past 6 months. Bizarrely I haven't - which seems statistically unlikely so I suspect and I have and it hasn't even registered...

    Seems bonkers to disrupt things for another booster campaign in light of this...

    Anecdotal, but my wife and I (early 40s, three doses) have had Covid at the same time as her parents (late 60s, four doses, second booster more recently) and it's notable that the in-laws have been a bit less seriously afflicted, despite their extra years.

    I could see another booster all round could have value in reducing days lost to illness, and hopefully catch up a few people who dropped out without taking the full course of doses.

    I don't see that a booster campaign is all that disruptive.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585

    There seems to be something wrong with the Russians' bloody ammo dumps today... ;)

    Oh no, what a shame. They do seem to be having a hard time keeping them under cover, almost as if they don’t control as much territory as they think they do, and there’s still loads of Ukranians around.

    Ukranians have had a brilliant intelligence operation since before the war even started.

    Co-incidentally, there’s a lot of NATO aircraft over Eastern Romania and over the Black Sea today.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    World test champions my arse. Even when NZ are good they are naff.
    Jacinda's jokers seen off, Modi's toadies next.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921

    Take back control from our unelected rulers.

    She's just giving Prince Charles all the precedents he needs to interfere when he becomes King.

    A Scottish government memo obtained by the Guardian reveals that “it is almost certain” draft laws have been secretly changed to secure the Queen’s approval.

    Under an arcane mechanism known as Queen’s consent, the monarch is routinely given advance sight of proposed laws that could affect her personal property and public powers. Unlike the better-known procedure of royal assent, a formality that marks the moment when a bill becomes law, Queen’s consent must be sought before the relevant legislation can be approved by parliament.

    A Guardian investigation last year revealed the Queen’s consent procedure had been used by the monarch in recent decades to privately lobby for changes to proposed UK legislation. In Scotland, where the procedure is known as crown consent, research by the Guardian identified at least 67 instances in which Scottish bills were vetted by the Queen.


    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/jun/27/queen-secret-influence-laws-revealed-scottish-government-memo

    Who elected this uneducated philistine?

    It is perfectly correct that the monarch is informed of legislation affecting Crown property.

    Calling the Queen an 'uneducated philistine' is also extremely disrespectful in her Jubilee year and Starkey was bad enough when he first used the phrase
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    edited June 2022
    dixiedean said:

    English Lit.
    You can either have breadth or depth not both.
    You can go through your entire school life without ever encountering some of the real titans (although Shakespeare seems extreme).
    Or. You can do what my Canadian High School did.
    Which was have a textbook which devoted a double page to each author.
    And devote a single 50 minute lesson to each. Biography. List of famous works. And a couple of paragraphs of text out of context.
    I know which one I'd prefer.

    Although you make the latter approach sound crap, it could be done quite well in my opinion, cycling through Early English, Jacobean Drama, the Metaphysical Poets, the Georgians, the Romantics, the 19th Century Novel, Literature of Empire, Modernism, American Literature, Irish Literature, the 1960s, and Literature of Today.

    That’s 12 modules, with perhaps 4 lessons each.

    Probably start with the Romantics and work forward, and loop back.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,632
    edited June 2022
    HYUFD said:

    Take back control from our unelected rulers.

    She's just giving Prince Charles all the precedents he needs to interfere when he becomes King.

    A Scottish government memo obtained by the Guardian reveals that “it is almost certain” draft laws have been secretly changed to secure the Queen’s approval.

    Under an arcane mechanism known as Queen’s consent, the monarch is routinely given advance sight of proposed laws that could affect her personal property and public powers. Unlike the better-known procedure of royal assent, a formality that marks the moment when a bill becomes law, Queen’s consent must be sought before the relevant legislation can be approved by parliament.

    A Guardian investigation last year revealed the Queen’s consent procedure had been used by the monarch in recent decades to privately lobby for changes to proposed UK legislation. In Scotland, where the procedure is known as crown consent, research by the Guardian identified at least 67 instances in which Scottish bills were vetted by the Queen.


    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/jun/27/queen-secret-influence-laws-revealed-scottish-government-memo

    Who elected this uneducated philistine?

    It is perfectly correct that the monarch is informed of legislation affecting Crown property.

    Calling the Queen an 'uneducated philistine' is also extremely disrespectful in her Jubilee year and Starkey was bad enough when he first used the phrase
    What makes her so special?

    She was a tax dodger for so many years, no representation without taxation.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921

    dixiedean said:

    English Lit.
    You can either have breadth or depth not both.
    You can go through your entire school life without ever encountering some of the real titans (although Shakespeare seems extreme). And devote a term to a single novel.
    Or. You can do what my Canadian High School did.
    Which was have a textbook which devoted a double page to each author.
    And allocated a single 50 minute lesson to each. Biography. List of famous works. And a couple of paragraphs of text out of context.
    I know which one I'd prefer.

    English Lit is disappearing from universities thanks to the government.

    English literature is being suspended as a degree at a university amid pressure from government to ensure graduates go straight into well-paid jobs.

    James Graham, the playwright behind the television drama Sherwood, was among those criticising Sheffield Hallam University for suspending the course. At least two other universities, Roehampton and Wolverhampton, have announced planned closures of arts and humanities programmes and UCU, the lecturers’ union, has said that jobs in those areas are at risk at De Montfort and Huddersfield universities.

    Humanities subjects have fallen in popularity over the past decade. In English studies, acceptances declined from 10,020 in 2011 to 6,980 in 2020; in history and philosophical studies they fell from 15,060 to 12,870.

    The Office for Students announced measures this year under which universities in England could be penalised, ultimately with fines or limits on student loan funding, if fewer than 75 per cent of undergraduates finish their qualification and fewer than 60 per cent are in professional employment or further study within 15 months of graduating.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/graduate-jobs-target-risks-killing-off-english-literature-degrees-vnhwkczrg
    Provided English literature courses get most of their students to completion and subsequent employment or postgraduate study then they are not under threat
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921

    HYUFD said:

    Take back control from our unelected rulers.

    She's just giving Prince Charles all the precedents he needs to interfere when he becomes King.

    A Scottish government memo obtained by the Guardian reveals that “it is almost certain” draft laws have been secretly changed to secure the Queen’s approval.

    Under an arcane mechanism known as Queen’s consent, the monarch is routinely given advance sight of proposed laws that could affect her personal property and public powers. Unlike the better-known procedure of royal assent, a formality that marks the moment when a bill becomes law, Queen’s consent must be sought before the relevant legislation can be approved by parliament.

    A Guardian investigation last year revealed the Queen’s consent procedure had been used by the monarch in recent decades to privately lobby for changes to proposed UK legislation. In Scotland, where the procedure is known as crown consent, research by the Guardian identified at least 67 instances in which Scottish bills were vetted by the Queen.


    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/jun/27/queen-secret-influence-laws-revealed-scottish-government-memo

    Who elected this uneducated philistine?

    It is perfectly correct that the monarch is informed of legislation affecting Crown property.

    Calling the Queen an 'uneducated philistine' is also extremely disrespectful in her Jubilee year and Starkey was bad enough when he first used the phrase
    What makes her so special?

    She was a tax dodger for so many years, no representation without taxation.
    She hasn't got representation even now she pays tax, the Queen can't vote
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,631
    This looks very bad:

    https://twitter.com/JimmySecUK/status/1541423903712722944

    A Russian missile just hit a crowded shopping centre in Kremenchuk.

    Ukrainian sources on the ground fear there are many civilian dead and wounded.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,632
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Take back control from our unelected rulers.

    She's just giving Prince Charles all the precedents he needs to interfere when he becomes King.

    A Scottish government memo obtained by the Guardian reveals that “it is almost certain” draft laws have been secretly changed to secure the Queen’s approval.

    Under an arcane mechanism known as Queen’s consent, the monarch is routinely given advance sight of proposed laws that could affect her personal property and public powers. Unlike the better-known procedure of royal assent, a formality that marks the moment when a bill becomes law, Queen’s consent must be sought before the relevant legislation can be approved by parliament.

    A Guardian investigation last year revealed the Queen’s consent procedure had been used by the monarch in recent decades to privately lobby for changes to proposed UK legislation. In Scotland, where the procedure is known as crown consent, research by the Guardian identified at least 67 instances in which Scottish bills were vetted by the Queen.


    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/jun/27/queen-secret-influence-laws-revealed-scottish-government-memo

    Who elected this uneducated philistine?

    It is perfectly correct that the monarch is informed of legislation affecting Crown property.

    Calling the Queen an 'uneducated philistine' is also extremely disrespectful in her Jubilee year and Starkey was bad enough when he first used the phrase
    What makes her so special?

    She was a tax dodger for so many years, no representation without taxation.
    She hasn't got representation even now she pays tax, the Queen can't vote
    She can vote.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,958
    HYUFD said:

    Take back control from our unelected rulers.

    She's just giving Prince Charles all the precedents he needs to interfere when he becomes King.

    A Scottish government memo obtained by the Guardian reveals that “it is almost certain” draft laws have been secretly changed to secure the Queen’s approval.

    Under an arcane mechanism known as Queen’s consent, the monarch is routinely given advance sight of proposed laws that could affect her personal property and public powers. Unlike the better-known procedure of royal assent, a formality that marks the moment when a bill becomes law, Queen’s consent must be sought before the relevant legislation can be approved by parliament.

    A Guardian investigation last year revealed the Queen’s consent procedure had been used by the monarch in recent decades to privately lobby for changes to proposed UK legislation. In Scotland, where the procedure is known as crown consent, research by the Guardian identified at least 67 instances in which Scottish bills were vetted by the Queen.


    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/jun/27/queen-secret-influence-laws-revealed-scottish-government-memo

    Who elected this uneducated philistine?

    It is perfectly correct that the monarch is informed of legislation affecting Crown property.

    Calling the Queen an 'uneducated philistine' is also extremely disrespectful in her Jubilee year and Starkey was bad enough when he first used the phrase
    In any case what would be the definition of an educated philistine?
    I guess Prince William (Eton, St Andrews) might qualify, he seems pretty pasteurised on the culture front.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,402
    edited June 2022

    dixiedean said:

    English Lit.
    You can either have breadth or depth not both.
    You can go through your entire school life without ever encountering some of the real titans (although Shakespeare seems extreme).
    Or. You can do what my Canadian High School did.
    Which was have a textbook which devoted a double page to each author.
    And devote a single 50 minute lesson to each. Biography. List of famous works. And a couple of paragraphs of text out of context.
    I know which one I'd prefer.

    Although you make the latter approach sound crap, it could be done quite well in my opinion, cycling through Early English, Jacobean Drama, the Metaphysical Poets, the Georgians, the Romantics, the 19th Century Novel, Literature of Empire, Modernism, American Literature, Irish Literature, the 1960s, and Literature of Today.

    That’s 12 modules, with perhaps 4 lessons each.

    Probably start with the Romantics and work forward, and loop back.
    Oh indeed.
    I'm not saying I didn't learn a lot from it. I also gained a much better knowledge of the historical evolution of the subject.
    Folk assume I'm extraordinarily well read, because almost any famous author I can name a couple of their works, when they lived, their genre and broad themes.
    I just didn't learn anything at all in any level of detail. Nor did I read any of their works.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,781
    HYUFD said:

    Education Secretary to tell OCR exam board not to remove Wilfred Owen and Philip Larkin from the GCSE syllabus

    https://twitter.com/nadhimzahawi/status/1539882196118511620?s=20&t=JsUPRV3iX3tU2ZWxIuONbg

    Politicians shouldn't dictate the precise content of school curricula. What next? Zahawi tells Mr Smith to reinstate the question about Oxbow lakes in the year 8 end of term geography exam? Education Secretary directs maths teachers to prioritise pentagons over hexagons in geometry?
    I mean, I am all for Philip Larkin - anyone whose work allows pupils to say Fuck at school and not get done for it is worthy of study in my view - but this is just absurd.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298

    The important point - which hardly gets mentioned - about the changes in the works and authors studied for English Literature is that it's not, or shouldn't be, about the quality of individual works. Whether or not you can make an argument that Raymond Antrobus, for example, is a better poet than, say, Milton*, the fact still remains that Milton is part of the canon of English Literature, influential over centuries, whose works are imbued into the language. In other words, he is part of our culture, and Antrobus isn't. What, therefore, this is about is a conscious intention to destroy the culture. It should be seen as such.

    * to my mind, almost any poet is a better poet than Milton, but that's besides the point

    Paradise Lost, that’s another one I am keeping for retirement.

    Inexplicably omitted from the curriculum of the bog-standard, working class suburban high school I attended in the early 90s.

    I guess they thought we’d have no need of “Better to reign in Hell, than to serve in Heaven” down the panel beater’s.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,896
    Leon said:

    They were actually going to remove PHILIP LARKIN from the English literature curriculum


    I can guess the rough identity of who they had planned as a replacement

    PB covered GCSE poems the other day. I wonder what EdSec's user name is on here.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    HYUFD said:

    Take back control from our unelected rulers.

    She's just giving Prince Charles all the precedents he needs to interfere when he becomes King.

    A Scottish government memo obtained by the Guardian reveals that “it is almost certain” draft laws have been secretly changed to secure the Queen’s approval.

    Under an arcane mechanism known as Queen’s consent, the monarch is routinely given advance sight of proposed laws that could affect her personal property and public powers. Unlike the better-known procedure of royal assent, a formality that marks the moment when a bill becomes law, Queen’s consent must be sought before the relevant legislation can be approved by parliament.

    A Guardian investigation last year revealed the Queen’s consent procedure had been used by the monarch in recent decades to privately lobby for changes to proposed UK legislation. In Scotland, where the procedure is known as crown consent, research by the Guardian identified at least 67 instances in which Scottish bills were vetted by the Queen.


    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/jun/27/queen-secret-influence-laws-revealed-scottish-government-memo

    Who elected this uneducated philistine?

    It is perfectly correct that the monarch is informed of legislation affecting Crown property.

    Calling the Queen an 'uneducated philistine' is also extremely disrespectful in her Jubilee year and Starkey was bad enough when he first used the phrase
    She's not particularly well educated. There was that governess that they fucked over, then she drove Austin 2 ton trucks round in circles for a bit in WW11 before a lifelong career of being driven to the races in a Rolls-Royce.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,663

    Stratford-upon-Avon *should* be great. As in UNESCO quality great.

    Sadly it’s just a tad crap.

    If I was dictator of Britain I would also appoint myself as a kind of Viollet-le-Duc, restoring things to their proper potential.

    I'd build a replica of Stonehenge (maybe with all the missing stones) just next to the visitor centre, so well away from the actual stones.

    That way 99% of visitors will get to see 'Stonehenge' as it was, and the actual stones will only get visited by the 1% who can be bothered to trek the mile from the visitor centre.

    Oh, and the A303 can got into its tunnel asap.
    Like others, I have refused to visit Stonehenge because I know I will be depressed and disappointed.

    Of course I have driven past.

    My modest proposal is to open it to the public between 5am and 7am only.
    I have only actually visited it once, as the sun was setting on New Year's Day 5 or so years ago. It was actually lovely. Hardly any other visitors of course, which no doubt helped.

    We watched the sun go down between the stones - beautiful.

    I believe recent research suggests Stonehenge was built to align with the setting sun on the winter solstice, to mark the hope of a new year, rather than with the rising sun on the summer solstice (for which after all no sane person would consider getting up early enough).
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,896
    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Heading off to Paris this week. BA say use VeriFLY.

    Downloaded the app and there is an *awful* lot of data importing and sharing requests from them. Anyone on here used/use them?

    No, we're using My Health Checked from Lloyds pharmacy to get a certified test for our cruise on Sunday. Slightly dubious about how it's going to work since Mrs P and I still tracing very faintly positive from our recent covid bouts.

    Finger-crossed.

    Our friends tested positive the day they were due to fly out to Botswana for a safari a couple of weeks ago. Gutted doesn't begin to describe it.
    I have previously (and successfully) used Confirm Testing - whereby they validate your test result. But BA suggested VeriFLY. Just that you need to agree with a lot of data sharing to proceed. I think I'll take my chances at check in.
    What could go wrong?
  • SirNorfolkPassmoreSirNorfolkPassmore Posts: 7,149
    edited June 2022


    Fully expect him to be cancelled shortly, The Merchant of Venice is so antisemitic it could have been one of Corbyn's top supporters.

    Up to a point:

    I am a Jew. Hath not a Jew eyes? Hath not a Jew hands, organs, dimensions, senses, affections, passions? Fed with the same food, hurt with the same weapons, subject to the same diseases, healed by the same means, warmed and cooled by the same winter and summer, as a Christian is? If you prick us, do we not bleed? If you tickle us, do we not laugh? If you poison us, do we not die? And if you wrong us, shall we not revenge? If we are like you in the rest, we will resemble you in that. If a Jew wrong a Christian, what is his humility? Revenge. If a Christian wrong a Jew, what should his sufferance be by Christian example? Why, revenge. The villainy you teach me I will execute, and it shall go hard but I will better the instruction.

    I agree that there is some effort there not to make Shylock a one-dimensional villain (and Shakespeare also tries to give his heroes flaws).

    But Shylock is still very much a villain and the speech can come across as self-pitying and bogus.

    It also has more than a hint of, "well, it isn't entirely the fault of Jews that they are all shysters..." Okay, that's all very tolerant, Bill, but your premise remains that they are all shysters...
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,497

    dixiedean said:

    English Lit.
    You can either have breadth or depth not both.
    You can go through your entire school life without ever encountering some of the real titans (although Shakespeare seems extreme). And devote a term to a single novel.
    Or. You can do what my Canadian High School did.
    Which was have a textbook which devoted a double page to each author.
    And allocated a single 50 minute lesson to each. Biography. List of famous works. And a couple of paragraphs of text out of context.
    I know which one I'd prefer.

    English Lit is disappearing from universities thanks to the government.

    English literature is being suspended as a degree at a university amid pressure from government to ensure graduates go straight into well-paid jobs.

    James Graham, the playwright behind the television drama Sherwood, was among those criticising Sheffield Hallam University for suspending the course. At least two other universities, Roehampton and Wolverhampton, have announced planned closures of arts and humanities programmes and UCU, the lecturers’ union, has said that jobs in those areas are at risk at De Montfort and Huddersfield universities.

    Humanities subjects have fallen in popularity over the past decade. In English studies, acceptances declined from 10,020 in 2011 to 6,980 in 2020; in history and philosophical studies they fell from 15,060 to 12,870.

    The Office for Students announced measures this year under which universities in England could be penalised, ultimately with fines or limits on student loan funding, if fewer than 75 per cent of undergraduates finish their qualification and fewer than 60 per cent are in professional employment or further study within 15 months of graduating.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/graduate-jobs-target-risks-killing-off-english-literature-degrees-vnhwkczrg
    Cause and effect. After decades of the views of people, who often know better for themselves and their children, that education is about jobs, debt, utility, having more money than someone else, extrinsic value and monetising humanity, we reap what we sow.

    The barbarians have been governing us for some time.

  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    English Lit.
    You can either have breadth or depth not both.
    You can go through your entire school life without ever encountering some of the real titans (although Shakespeare seems extreme).
    Or. You can do what my Canadian High School did.
    Which was have a textbook which devoted a double page to each author.
    And devote a single 50 minute lesson to each. Biography. List of famous works. And a couple of paragraphs of text out of context.
    I know which one I'd prefer.

    Although you make the latter approach sound crap, it could be done quite well in my opinion, cycling through Early English, Jacobean Drama, the Metaphysical Poets, the Georgians, the Romantics, the 19th Century Novel, Literature of Empire, Modernism, American Literature, Irish Literature, the 1960s, and Literature of Today.

    That’s 12 modules, with perhaps 4 lessons each.

    Probably start with the Romantics and work forward, and loop back.
    Oh indeed.
    I'm not saying I didn't learn a lot from it. I also gained a much better knowledge of the historical evolution of the subject.
    Folk assume I'm extraordinarily well read, because almost any famous author I can name a couple of their works, when they lived, their genre and broad themes.

    I just didn't learn anything at all in any level of detail. Nor did I read any of their works.
    So I would have one set text for each module.

    Eg Miller’s Tale, Macbeth, Donne’s sonnets, Rape of the Lock, etc etc
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,821

    dixiedean said:

    English Lit.
    You can either have breadth or depth not both.
    You can go through your entire school life without ever encountering some of the real titans (although Shakespeare seems extreme). And devote a term to a single novel.
    Or. You can do what my Canadian High School did.
    Which was have a textbook which devoted a double page to each author.
    And allocated a single 50 minute lesson to each. Biography. List of famous works. And a couple of paragraphs of text out of context.
    I know which one I'd prefer.

    English Lit is disappearing from universities thanks to the government.

    English literature is being suspended as a degree at a university amid pressure from government to ensure graduates go straight into well-paid jobs.

    James Graham, the playwright behind the television drama Sherwood, was among those criticising Sheffield Hallam University for suspending the course. At least two other universities, Roehampton and Wolverhampton, have announced planned closures of arts and humanities programmes and UCU, the lecturers’ union, has said that jobs in those areas are at risk at De Montfort and Huddersfield universities.

    Humanities subjects have fallen in popularity over the past decade. In English studies, acceptances declined from 10,020 in 2011 to 6,980 in 2020; in history and philosophical studies they fell from 15,060 to 12,870.

    The Office for Students announced measures this year under which universities in England could be penalised, ultimately with fines or limits on student loan funding, if fewer than 75 per cent of undergraduates finish their qualification and fewer than 60 per cent are in professional employment or further study within 15 months of graduating.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/graduate-jobs-target-risks-killing-off-english-literature-degrees-vnhwkczrg
    To be honest, I kind of agree with this. Whilst children should all get a basic education at school it does seem to me that there are far more useful things to be studied at University.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,788
    Mr. Mortimer, I haven't seen the push for another jab but the push doesn't surprise me at all.

    It's utter foolishness. We now have a disease with rising infections but no rise in ventilation use or serious illness. That's exactly what we want. High infection rates don't matter if it's the common cold.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    Dura_Ace said:

    HYUFD said:

    Take back control from our unelected rulers.

    She's just giving Prince Charles all the precedents he needs to interfere when he becomes King.

    A Scottish government memo obtained by the Guardian reveals that “it is almost certain” draft laws have been secretly changed to secure the Queen’s approval.

    Under an arcane mechanism known as Queen’s consent, the monarch is routinely given advance sight of proposed laws that could affect her personal property and public powers. Unlike the better-known procedure of royal assent, a formality that marks the moment when a bill becomes law, Queen’s consent must be sought before the relevant legislation can be approved by parliament.

    A Guardian investigation last year revealed the Queen’s consent procedure had been used by the monarch in recent decades to privately lobby for changes to proposed UK legislation. In Scotland, where the procedure is known as crown consent, research by the Guardian identified at least 67 instances in which Scottish bills were vetted by the Queen.


    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/jun/27/queen-secret-influence-laws-revealed-scottish-government-memo

    Who elected this uneducated philistine?

    It is perfectly correct that the monarch is informed of legislation affecting Crown property.

    Calling the Queen an 'uneducated philistine' is also extremely disrespectful in her Jubilee year and Starkey was bad enough when he first used the phrase
    She's not particularly well educated. There was that governess that they fucked over, then she drove Austin 2 ton trucks round in circles for a bit in WW11 before a lifelong career of being driven to the races in a Rolls-Royce.
    She speaks fluent French and has a sound understanding of her role and the Constitution. She has been far more popular over her reign than most of the more educated, largely Oxford graduate PMs she has dealt with
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,716

    HYUFD said:

    Education Secretary to tell OCR exam board not to remove Wilfred Owen and Philip Larkin from the GCSE syllabus

    https://twitter.com/nadhimzahawi/status/1539882196118511620?s=20&t=JsUPRV3iX3tU2ZWxIuONbg

    Politicians shouldn't dictate the precise content of school curricula. What next? Zahawi tells Mr Smith to reinstate the question about Oxbow lakes in the year 8 end of term geography exam? Education Secretary directs maths teachers to prioritise pentagons over hexagons in geometry?
    I mean, I am all for Philip Larkin - anyone whose work allows pupils to say Fuck at school and not get done for it is worthy of study in my view - but this is just absurd.
    The problem though appears to be that exam boards cannot be trusted to weigh these things up on literary merits rather than make it all about a particular political view and imposing non-literary judgments.

    Larkin is easily the most important post-war poet. Only Ted Hughes comes close I would say.

  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,747
    Just got buzzed by 4 fighter jets with transponders off and flying below radar height. Been nice knowing you all!
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,439
    kle4 said:

    Talking about getting cancelled

    A group of BBC staff have sent a letter of no confidence in the Director General of the organisation and the entire management of the sports department over the decision to use Michael Vaughan as part of the coverage of cricket.

    The letter - sent by the BBC Sport BAME Advisory Group and 5 Live Diversity Group - brands the decision to utilise Vaughan as "totally inexcusable" and "damaging, embarrassing and unsettling" to "many colleagues across BBC Sport and the BBC as a whole".

    The BBC suspended Vaughan, the former England captain, from their Ashes coverage when it first became clear he had been implicated in allegations of racism at Yorkshire. But he was invited to return to their Test Match Special coverage ahead of the series between England and New Zealand and continued to work for the organisation at the Leeds Test after it emerged he had been charged by the ECB’s Cricket Disciplinary Commission (CDC).

    The letter describes that decision as "a shocking miscalculation" which has undermined the progress the BBC has made in building inclusivity over the last couple of years. As a result, the authors say they feel "utter desperation" at a situation which has left them "exhausted… and "feeling that we just aren't being listened to."


    https://www.thecricketer.com/Topics/england/michael_vaughan_return_triggers_letter_no_confidence_from_bbc_staff.html

    What the heck is a 'letter of no confidence' in a hierarchical, non-democratic organisation?

    I know a 'You're wrong and we'd like you to quit' (I presume) letter is essentially the same thing, but still, sounds weird in this context.
    These letters are only sent because they work, and thus intimidate the rest.

    Such groups are the 21st Century equivalent of 1970s Trade Unions and they are crying out for a Thatch to stand up to them.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921

    HYUFD said:

    Take back control from our unelected rulers.

    She's just giving Prince Charles all the precedents he needs to interfere when he becomes King.

    A Scottish government memo obtained by the Guardian reveals that “it is almost certain” draft laws have been secretly changed to secure the Queen’s approval.

    Under an arcane mechanism known as Queen’s consent, the monarch is routinely given advance sight of proposed laws that could affect her personal property and public powers. Unlike the better-known procedure of royal assent, a formality that marks the moment when a bill becomes law, Queen’s consent must be sought before the relevant legislation can be approved by parliament.

    A Guardian investigation last year revealed the Queen’s consent procedure had been used by the monarch in recent decades to privately lobby for changes to proposed UK legislation. In Scotland, where the procedure is known as crown consent, research by the Guardian identified at least 67 instances in which Scottish bills were vetted by the Queen.


    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/jun/27/queen-secret-influence-laws-revealed-scottish-government-memo

    Who elected this uneducated philistine?

    It is perfectly correct that the monarch is informed of legislation affecting Crown property.

    Calling the Queen an 'uneducated philistine' is also extremely disrespectful in her Jubilee year and Starkey was bad enough when he first used the phrase
    In any case what would be the definition of an educated philistine?
    I guess Prince William (Eton, St Andrews) might qualify, he seems pretty pasteurised on the culture front.
    The Duchess of Cambridge however has a degree in History of Art, even if William switched to Geography
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,191
    moonshine said:

    Just got buzzed by 4 fighter jets with transponders off and flying below radar height. Been nice knowing you all!

    You can't post that and not tell us where you are..
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,439

    HYUFD said:

    Take back control from our unelected rulers.

    She's just giving Prince Charles all the precedents he needs to interfere when he becomes King.

    A Scottish government memo obtained by the Guardian reveals that “it is almost certain” draft laws have been secretly changed to secure the Queen’s approval.

    Under an arcane mechanism known as Queen’s consent, the monarch is routinely given advance sight of proposed laws that could affect her personal property and public powers. Unlike the better-known procedure of royal assent, a formality that marks the moment when a bill becomes law, Queen’s consent must be sought before the relevant legislation can be approved by parliament.

    A Guardian investigation last year revealed the Queen’s consent procedure had been used by the monarch in recent decades to privately lobby for changes to proposed UK legislation. In Scotland, where the procedure is known as crown consent, research by the Guardian identified at least 67 instances in which Scottish bills were vetted by the Queen.


    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/jun/27/queen-secret-influence-laws-revealed-scottish-government-memo

    Who elected this uneducated philistine?

    It is perfectly correct that the monarch is informed of legislation affecting Crown property.

    Calling the Queen an 'uneducated philistine' is also extremely disrespectful in her Jubilee year and Starkey was bad enough when he first used the phrase
    What makes her so special?

    She was a tax dodger for so many years, no representation without taxation.
    If you're serious about a republic then rather than trolling why not focus your ire on Charles (a prat who isn't respected) rather than Elizabeth (who's respected by almost everyone around the planet)?
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,249

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Heading off to Paris this week. BA say use VeriFLY.

    Downloaded the app and there is an *awful* lot of data importing and sharing requests from them. Anyone on here used/use them?

    No, we're using My Health Checked from Lloyds pharmacy to get a certified test for our cruise on Sunday. Slightly dubious about how it's going to work since Mrs P and I still tracing very faintly positive from our recent covid bouts.

    Finger-crossed.

    Our friends tested positive the day they were due to fly out to Botswana for a safari a couple of weeks ago. Gutted doesn't begin to describe it.
    I have previously (and successfully) used Confirm Testing - whereby they validate your test result. But BA suggested VeriFLY. Just that you need to agree with a lot of data sharing to proceed. I think I'll take my chances at check in.
    What could go wrong?
    Flew KLM to Amsterdam last week. No masks, no tests, no vax passports, nothing. Just like old times.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Take back control from our unelected rulers.

    She's just giving Prince Charles all the precedents he needs to interfere when he becomes King.

    A Scottish government memo obtained by the Guardian reveals that “it is almost certain” draft laws have been secretly changed to secure the Queen’s approval.

    Under an arcane mechanism known as Queen’s consent, the monarch is routinely given advance sight of proposed laws that could affect her personal property and public powers. Unlike the better-known procedure of royal assent, a formality that marks the moment when a bill becomes law, Queen’s consent must be sought before the relevant legislation can be approved by parliament.

    A Guardian investigation last year revealed the Queen’s consent procedure had been used by the monarch in recent decades to privately lobby for changes to proposed UK legislation. In Scotland, where the procedure is known as crown consent, research by the Guardian identified at least 67 instances in which Scottish bills were vetted by the Queen.


    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/jun/27/queen-secret-influence-laws-revealed-scottish-government-memo

    Who elected this uneducated philistine?

    It is perfectly correct that the monarch is informed of legislation affecting Crown property.

    Calling the Queen an 'uneducated philistine' is also extremely disrespectful in her Jubilee year and Starkey was bad enough when he first used the phrase
    What makes her so special?

    She was a tax dodger for so many years, no representation without taxation.
    She hasn't got representation even now she pays tax, the Queen can't vote
    She can vote.
    By convention the Queen never votes in any UK election, local or general
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,747
    Pulpstar said:

    moonshine said:

    Just got buzzed by 4 fighter jets with transponders off and flying below radar height. Been nice knowing you all!

    You can't post that and not tell us where you are..
    Best not given Vlad’s lackeys lurk here
  • SirNorfolkPassmoreSirNorfolkPassmore Posts: 7,149
    edited June 2022

    DavidL said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    Education Secretary to tell OCR exam board not to remove Wilfred Owen and Philip Larkin from the GCSE syllabus

    https://twitter.com/nadhimzahawi/status/1539882196118511620?s=20&t=JsUPRV3iX3tU2ZWxIuONbg

    Studied neither at either O or A level.
    My son managed to get through 5 years of English at a private High School and never studied Shakespeare. They did some fairly crappy Scottish poets though.
    That post shows why Scotland isn't ready to be independent.

    No Shakespeare? Not even Mac The Scottish Play?

    I love Shakespeare, so timeless.

    Fully expect him to be cancelled shortly, The Merchant of Venice is so antisemitic it could have been one of Corbyn's top supporters.
    The Merchant of Venice is so antisemitic, which is precisely why it should be studied - not just for literature purposes but for learning about antisemitism, tropes etc and critical thinking even on old literature of its time.
    Oh how dull.
    Just luxuriate first of all in the language.
    By the same token, let's just enjoy Leni Riefenstahl for the pure aesthetics, rather than boring on about the message of Triumph of the Will...

    She was a genius, by the way. It's just you can't simply ignore the elephant in the room entirely.

    EDIT: In fairness, you did say "first of all" so I'm being rather unfair.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    John Milton is a fine poet. Tsk, @Richard_Nabavi

    The blind poet on dreaming about his dead wife. Starts off wordy and formal…


    BY JOHN MILTON

    Methought I saw my late espoused saint
    Brought to me, like Alcestis, from the grave,
    Whom Jove's great son to her glad husband gave,
    Rescu'd from death by force, though pale and faint.
    Mine, as whom wash'd from spot of child-bed taint
    Purification in the old Law did save,
    And such as yet once more I trust to have
    Full sight of her in Heaven without restraint,
    Came vested all in white, pure as her mind;
    Her face was veil'd, yet to my fancied sight
    Love, sweetness, goodness, in her person shin'd
    So clear as in no face with more delight.
    But Oh! as to embrace me she inclin'd,
    I wak'd, she fled, and day brought back my night.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298

    HYUFD said:

    Education Secretary to tell OCR exam board not to remove Wilfred Owen and Philip Larkin from the GCSE syllabus

    https://twitter.com/nadhimzahawi/status/1539882196118511620?s=20&t=JsUPRV3iX3tU2ZWxIuONbg

    Politicians shouldn't dictate the precise content of school curricula. What next? Zahawi tells Mr Smith to reinstate the question about Oxbow lakes in the year 8 end of term geography exam? Education Secretary directs maths teachers to prioritise pentagons over hexagons in geometry?
    I mean, I am all for Philip Larkin - anyone whose work allows pupils to say Fuck at school and not get done for it is worthy of study in my view - but this is just absurd.
    The problem though appears to be that exam boards cannot be trusted to weigh these things up on literary merits rather than make it all about a particular political view and imposing non-literary judgments.

    Larkin is easily the most important post-war poet. Only Ted Hughes comes close I would
    say.

    Seamus Heaney?
    And about a half dozen Americans…

  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,896

    dixiedean said:

    English Lit.
    You can either have breadth or depth not both.
    You can go through your entire school life without ever encountering some of the real titans (although Shakespeare seems extreme). And devote a term to a single novel.
    Or. You can do what my Canadian High School did.
    Which was have a textbook which devoted a double page to each author.
    And allocated a single 50 minute lesson to each. Biography. List of famous works. And a couple of paragraphs of text out of context.
    I know which one I'd prefer.

    English Lit is disappearing from universities thanks to the government.

    English literature is being suspended as a degree at a university amid pressure from government to ensure graduates go straight into well-paid jobs.

    James Graham, the playwright behind the television drama Sherwood, was among those criticising Sheffield Hallam University for suspending the course. At least two other universities, Roehampton and Wolverhampton, have announced planned closures of arts and humanities programmes and UCU, the lecturers’ union, has said that jobs in those areas are at risk at De Montfort and Huddersfield universities.

    Humanities subjects have fallen in popularity over the past decade. In English studies, acceptances declined from 10,020 in 2011 to 6,980 in 2020; in history and philosophical studies they fell from 15,060 to 12,870.

    The Office for Students announced measures this year under which universities in England could be penalised, ultimately with fines or limits on student loan funding, if fewer than 75 per cent of undergraduates finish their qualification and fewer than 60 per cent are in professional employment or further study within 15 months of graduating.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/graduate-jobs-target-risks-killing-off-english-literature-degrees-vnhwkczrg
    It was notable for some time that despite their popularity with some posters, English and similar degrees were losing their popularity. Salary-based league tables do not help if graduates go into poorly paid (at least initially) fields like publishing, teaching, or mooching round coffee shops writing books about wizards.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,781

    HYUFD said:

    Education Secretary to tell OCR exam board not to remove Wilfred Owen and Philip Larkin from the GCSE syllabus

    https://twitter.com/nadhimzahawi/status/1539882196118511620?s=20&t=JsUPRV3iX3tU2ZWxIuONbg

    Politicians shouldn't dictate the precise content of school curricula. What next? Zahawi tells Mr Smith to reinstate the question about Oxbow lakes in the year 8 end of term geography exam? Education Secretary directs maths teachers to prioritise pentagons over hexagons in geometry?
    I mean, I am all for Philip Larkin - anyone whose work allows pupils to say Fuck at school and not get done for it is worthy of study in my view - but this is just absurd.
    The problem though appears to be that exam boards cannot be trusted to weigh these things up on literary merits rather than make it all about a particular political view and imposing non-literary judgments.

    Larkin is easily the most important post-war poet. Only Ted Hughes comes close I would say.

    How do you know how they have come to that judgement? Or that it is not in fact Zahari who is imposing a political view? He is, after all, a politician, and as far as I know doesn't have a degree in English literature.

    I like Larkin (as a poet) but clearly there isn't room on the curriculum for everything and it may be that it was right to rotate the authors covered to make space for someone equally deserving. I don't think that it is the job of politicians to decide which authors are included in GCSE English exams.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585

    This looks very bad:

    https://twitter.com/JimmySecUK/status/1541423903712722944

    A Russian missile just hit a crowded shopping centre in Kremenchuk.

    Ukrainian sources on the ground fear there are many civilian dead and wounded.

    That’s not good at all. A missile aimed at a supermarket in the middle of the day, hundreds of kilometers away from the fighting. Putin really is trying to provoke WWIII.
  • DM_AndyDM_Andy Posts: 1,127
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Take back control from our unelected rulers.

    She's just giving Prince Charles all the precedents he needs to interfere when he becomes King.

    A Scottish government memo obtained by the Guardian reveals that “it is almost certain” draft laws have been secretly changed to secure the Queen’s approval.

    Under an arcane mechanism known as Queen’s consent, the monarch is routinely given advance sight of proposed laws that could affect her personal property and public powers. Unlike the better-known procedure of royal assent, a formality that marks the moment when a bill becomes law, Queen’s consent must be sought before the relevant legislation can be approved by parliament.

    A Guardian investigation last year revealed the Queen’s consent procedure had been used by the monarch in recent decades to privately lobby for changes to proposed UK legislation. In Scotland, where the procedure is known as crown consent, research by the Guardian identified at least 67 instances in which Scottish bills were vetted by the Queen.


    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/jun/27/queen-secret-influence-laws-revealed-scottish-government-memo

    Who elected this uneducated philistine?

    It is perfectly correct that the monarch is informed of legislation affecting Crown property.

    Calling the Queen an 'uneducated philistine' is also extremely disrespectful in her Jubilee year and Starkey was bad enough when he first used the phrase
    What makes her so special?

    She was a tax dodger for so many years, no representation without taxation.
    She hasn't got representation even now she pays tax, the Queen can't vote
    She can vote.
    By convention the Queen never votes in any UK election, local or general
    I would not exercise my right to vote in order to have a veto over any proposed legislation that could affect me. I suspect you would take that deal as well.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    edited June 2022

    DavidL said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    Education Secretary to tell OCR exam board not to remove Wilfred Owen and Philip Larkin from the GCSE syllabus

    https://twitter.com/nadhimzahawi/status/1539882196118511620?s=20&t=JsUPRV3iX3tU2ZWxIuONbg

    Studied neither at either O or A level.
    My son managed to get through 5 years of English at a private High School and never studied Shakespeare. They did some fairly crappy Scottish poets though.
    That post shows why Scotland isn't ready to be independent.

    No Shakespeare? Not even Mac The Scottish Play?

    I love Shakespeare, so timeless.

    Fully expect him to be cancelled shortly, The Merchant of Venice is so antisemitic it could have been one of Corbyn's top supporters.
    The Merchant of Venice is so antisemitic, which is precisely why it should be studied - not just for literature purposes but for learning about antisemitism, tropes etc and critical thinking even on old literature of its time.
    Oh how dull.
    Just luxuriate first of all in the language.
    By the same token, let's just enjoy Leni Riefenstahl for the pure aesthetics, rather than boring on about the message of Triumph of the Will...

    She was a genius, by the way. It's just you can't simply ignore the elephant in the room entirely.

    EDIT: In fairness, you did say "first of all" so I'm being rather unfair.
    I don’t really think Shakespeare and Reifenstahl are in the same ballpark.

    Of course there is interest to be had in examining the politics and prejudices inside a Shakespeare play but I rather fear that it would become the primary lens rather than understanding it as a piece of drama, poetry and performance.

  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    Leon said:

    John Milton is a fine poet. Tsk, @Richard_Nabavi

    The blind poet on dreaming about his dead wife. Starts off wordy and formal…


    BY JOHN MILTON

    Methought I saw my late espoused saint
    Brought to me, like Alcestis, from the grave,
    Whom Jove's great son to her glad husband gave,
    Rescu'd from death by force, though pale and faint.
    Mine, as whom wash'd from spot of child-bed taint
    Purification in the old Law did save,
    And such as yet once more I trust to have
    Full sight of her in Heaven without restraint,
    Came vested all in white, pure as her mind;
    Her face was veil'd, yet to my fancied sight
    Love, sweetness, goodness, in her person shin'd
    So clear as in no face with more delight.
    But Oh! as to embrace me she inclin'd,
    I wak'd, she fled, and day brought back my night.

    Actually I'll grant you that, and of course 'When I consider how my light is spent'. If only he'd stuck to sonnets and other short forms. It's the long works, padded out with interminable classical references to make them seem posh to seventeenth century taste, which I can't stand. Mind you, I did suffer the misfortune of having the uber-tedious Comus as one of my O-level texts, which might have distorted my view of him.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Dura_Ace said:

    HYUFD said:

    Take back control from our unelected rulers.

    She's just giving Prince Charles all the precedents he needs to interfere when he becomes King.

    A Scottish government memo obtained by the Guardian reveals that “it is almost certain” draft laws have been secretly changed to secure the Queen’s approval.

    Under an arcane mechanism known as Queen’s consent, the monarch is routinely given advance sight of proposed laws that could affect her personal property and public powers. Unlike the better-known procedure of royal assent, a formality that marks the moment when a bill becomes law, Queen’s consent must be sought before the relevant legislation can be approved by parliament.

    A Guardian investigation last year revealed the Queen’s consent procedure had been used by the monarch in recent decades to privately lobby for changes to proposed UK legislation. In Scotland, where the procedure is known as crown consent, research by the Guardian identified at least 67 instances in which Scottish bills were vetted by the Queen.


    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/jun/27/queen-secret-influence-laws-revealed-scottish-government-memo

    Who elected this uneducated philistine?

    It is perfectly correct that the monarch is informed of legislation affecting Crown property.

    Calling the Queen an 'uneducated philistine' is also extremely disrespectful in her Jubilee year and Starkey was bad enough when he first used the phrase
    She's not particularly well educated. There was that governess that they fucked over, then she drove Austin 2 ton trucks round in circles for a bit in WW11 before a lifelong career of being driven to the races in a Rolls-Royce.
    Weekly politics tutorials from what is it 13 PMs now?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,716

    HYUFD said:

    Education Secretary to tell OCR exam board not to remove Wilfred Owen and Philip Larkin from the GCSE syllabus

    https://twitter.com/nadhimzahawi/status/1539882196118511620?s=20&t=JsUPRV3iX3tU2ZWxIuONbg

    Politicians shouldn't dictate the precise content of school curricula. What next? Zahawi tells Mr Smith to reinstate the question about Oxbow lakes in the year 8 end of term geography exam? Education Secretary directs maths teachers to prioritise pentagons over hexagons in geometry?
    I mean, I am all for Philip Larkin - anyone whose work allows pupils to say Fuck at school and not get done for it is worthy of study in my view - but this is just absurd.
    The problem though appears to be that exam boards cannot be trusted to weigh these things up on literary merits rather than make it all about a particular political view and imposing non-literary judgments.

    Larkin is easily the most important post-war poet. Only Ted Hughes comes close I would
    say.

    Seamus Heaney?
    And about a half dozen Americans…

    Yes, Heaney. Of course. I meant UK poets - so no americans.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,402
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Take back control from our unelected rulers.

    She's just giving Prince Charles all the precedents he needs to interfere when he becomes King.

    A Scottish government memo obtained by the Guardian reveals that “it is almost certain” draft laws have been secretly changed to secure the Queen’s approval.

    Under an arcane mechanism known as Queen’s consent, the monarch is routinely given advance sight of proposed laws that could affect her personal property and public powers. Unlike the better-known procedure of royal assent, a formality that marks the moment when a bill becomes law, Queen’s consent must be sought before the relevant legislation can be approved by parliament.

    A Guardian investigation last year revealed the Queen’s consent procedure had been used by the monarch in recent decades to privately lobby for changes to proposed UK legislation. In Scotland, where the procedure is known as crown consent, research by the Guardian identified at least 67 instances in which Scottish bills were vetted by the Queen.


    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/jun/27/queen-secret-influence-laws-revealed-scottish-government-memo

    Who elected this uneducated philistine?

    It is perfectly correct that the monarch is informed of legislation affecting Crown property.

    Calling the Queen an 'uneducated philistine' is also extremely disrespectful in her Jubilee year and Starkey was bad enough when he first used the phrase
    What makes her so special?

    She was a tax dodger for so many years, no representation without taxation.
    She hasn't got representation even now she pays tax, the Queen can't vote
    She can vote.
    By convention the Queen never votes in any UK election, local or general
    I wouldn't bother either if I got a veto on laws.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    The important point - which hardly gets mentioned - about the changes in the works and authors studied for English Literature is that it's not, or shouldn't be, about the quality of individual works. Whether or not you can make an argument that Raymond Antrobus, for example, is a better poet than, say, Milton*, the fact still remains that Milton is part of the canon of English Literature, influential over centuries, whose works are imbued into the language. In other words, he is part of our culture, and Antrobus isn't. What, therefore, this is about is a conscious intention to destroy the culture. It should be seen as such.

    * to my mind, almost any poet is a better poet than Milton, but that's besides the point

    Uncharacterisic lapse. Read l'allegro and il penseroso if you don't get on with PL
This discussion has been closed.