Could more Tory MP defections be in the pipeline? – politicalbetting.com

LostPassword said:

Daveyboy1961 said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Theuniondivvie said:

'Ok guys, jus' spitballing here, but what if we try tunnels again, only in a different place?'

'Genius, trebles all round!'

Great! They work in Norway and the Faroes. Once again the UK is backwards when it comes to infrastructure.

How many Islands?.... How many tunnels?

Compared to a few ferries now and again?

Tunnels are always going to be better than ferries, due to not having to worry about the weather. Which is why the Greenwich foot tunnel was built during the reign of Queen Victoria.

I don't see any particular reason why the Orkney and Shetland Islands shouldn't follow the Faroes in having tunnels between some of the islands.

Dura_Ace said:

ydoethur said:

Farooq said:

Dura_Ace said:

Cicero said:

There are now over 40,000 refugees here, and this is, please remember, in a population of only 1.3 million. The fact that Britain is still imposing visa restrictions in a piecemeal and incompetent way so that essentially only family members of those Ukrainian citizens already in the country are being let in, means the total number of actual refugeesnin Britain is barely more than Estonia, for a country more than 50 times the size.

We recently had the first and apparently only visit from Social Services to make sure we aren't mistreating "our" Ukrainians. They were fucking hopeless and the Ukrainians found it very unsettling assuming it to be a visit from our version of the KGB. Which, in a sense, it was.

Interesting. Do you think there are any ways in which social services and the KGB are different?

Social services still exist, the KGB don't.

The KGB had some high profile successes as well as clusterfucks. Social services tend only to manage the latter (for 'high profile' cases).

This was a clusterfuck.

They insisted on having their own translator on the phone despite being told many times this wasn't necessary. The translator was fucking terrible and not translating accurately. One of the first things they said was something on the lines of, "We've have to make sure you wouldn't be better off somewhere else". This caused both Ukrainians to start weeping volubly. At this point I thought Mrs DA was going to ask to borrow my Ruger 10/22 and I was going to have to spend all night digging shallow graves in the woods.

Richard_Nabavi said:

Theuniondivvie said:

'Ok guys, jus' spitballing here, but what if we try tunnels again, only in a different place?'

'Genius, trebles all round!'

Well at least they seem to have rejected overwater tunnels.

ydoethur said:

Cicero said:

I have been catching up with the UK media this morning with a growing sense of disbelief and even rage. Here in Estonia, we recognise that the war in Ukraine is existential for European democracy. If Ukraine loses, the full force of Russian brutality will go on to challenge every other European democracy, including the UK and Ireland.

There are now over 40,000 refugees here, and this is, please remember, in a population of only 1.3 million. The fact that Britain is still imposing visa restrictions in a piecemeal and incompetent way so that essentially only family members of those Ukrainian citizens already in the country are being let in, means the total number of actual refugeesnin Britain is barely more than Estonia, for a country more than 50 times the size. Poland is dealing with over 3.5 million refugees. Meanwhile the Brits are running around patting themselves on the back thinking that Boris is leading the charge. Um... he really is not. Across the Baltic there are crowd funding programmes that are buying equipment and supplies for the Ukrainians. In a single day the Lithuanians (total population 2.7 million) funded €5 million for a Bayraktar. However. although I do find the Daily Mail printing any old rubbish about the war irritating, it is the Johnson circus that has been raising my blood pressure.

The British economy is already trying to compete with one hand behind its back. A chaotic tarrif regime, new restrictions and a massive amount of paperwork have had a strongely negative effect on exports. Small and medium size businesses have been disproportionately affected. I notice daily that the number of previously available British products, from Alpen to Lea and Perrins Worcestershire sauce are no longer available here. This is happening across British export markets.

The response to this is "restore Imperial measurements". In otherwords, impose further costs on the UK economy for no economic gain whatsoever. Basically no one under the age of 60 has been taught the rules of the Imperial system, it is the kind of nostalgia that allows people in the their fifties to talk about the Second World War as though they had anything to do with it. This is a government that thinks going back to the 70s or even the 50s is the solution to their political ills.

Britian has got to escape this absurdity. The nostalgia trap will see us relegated to the lowest economic leagues. The fact that Johnson is doing it to try to save his own worthless political life is simply contemptible.

The Conservative grown ups: Ben Wallace, Therese Coffey, Anne Marie Trevelyan and even Liz Truss, have got to deal with Johnson (and the absurd Rees Mogg) now. The longer this farce continues, the greater the economic damage and the lower the reputation of the country will fall.

If you can consider even Liz Truss would be better, things must look grim.

The news from Eastern Ukraine certainly does. It's starting to look as though the question will be whether Luhansk, Donetsk and the Azov coast will be enough to satisfy Putin, at least for now so that he stops his attacks on the rest of Ukraine.

His past record doesn't exactly inspire hope, and it's quite clear that's not what he wanted.

Any further info from your position on what the Russian government might be thinking?

Farooq said:

LostPassword said:

Daveyboy1961 said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Theuniondivvie said:

'Ok guys, jus' spitballing here, but what if we try tunnels again, only in a different place?'

'Genius, trebles all round!'

Great! They work in Norway and the Faroes. Once again the UK is backwards when it comes to infrastructure.

How many Islands?.... How many tunnels?

Compared to a few ferries now and again?

Tunnels are always going to be better than ferries, due to not having to worry about the weather. Which is why the Greenwich foot tunnel was built during the reign of Queen Victoria.

I don't see any particular reason why the Orkney and Shetland Islands shouldn't follow the Faroes in having tunnels between some of the islands.

There's a tunnel in Greenwich that's only 30cm long?

OldKingCole said:

Nigelb said:

Benpointer said:

Is it me or is the daily MOD brief on Ukraine becoming lost in the realms of wishful thinking?

https://twitter.com/DefenceHQ/status/1531143716840284161?s=20&t=FIwr0IRFqeu7iJ3RTVZDBQ

It starts with:
"Russia has likely suffered devastating losses amongst its mid and junior ranking officers..."

Whereas all the new outlets are indicating Russian progress, sadly, e.g. the BBC's "Heavy fighting as Russia advances into key eastern city".

No - both things you quote above are true.
Russia is taking territory, but slowly, and at great cost.

Ukraine claimed several T62s destroyed yesterday, so it seems Russia is genuinely reduced to throwing in obsolete replacements for their lost equipment.

They still have significantly superior artillery (in numbers, certainly), but recent and ongoing deliveries to Ukraine are beginning to redress the balance.
For now there's no real sign of Ukraine's resolve to fight weakening.

I remember the Korean War. The North attacked, drove the South and the Americans almost out of the peninsula. Then the Americans, ourselves and the South landed behind the Northern lines and they were driven back almost to the Chinese border.
Then the Chinese joined in and everyone ended up pretty well where they'd started.

Selebian said:

OldKingCole said:

LostPassword said:

williamglenn said:

Cicero said:

The response to this is "restore Imperial measurements". In otherwords, impose further costs on the UK economy for no economic gain whatsoever. Basically no one under the age of 60 has been taught the rules of the Imperial system, it is the kind of nostalgia that allows people in the their fifties to talk about the Second World War as though they had anything to do with it. This is a government that thinks going back to the 70s or even the 50s is the solution to their political ills.

Britian has got to escape this absurdity. The nostalgia trap will see us relegated to the lowest economic leagues. The fact that Johnson is doing it to try to save his own worthless political life is simply contemptible.

Allowing imperial measurements doesn't impose any costs at all because nobody is obliged to use them if they don't want to.

What's absurd is not giving up on imposing metric conformity but the hysterical reactions of people who engage in this kind of national psychoanalysis. What you're doing is not all that far removed from Maria Zakharova condemning Ukraine for wanting to claim borscht for itself.

It shouldn't be difficult with the aid of computers to provide prices in both sets of measures if people wish.

Then customers can use the set of measures that most suit them.

It's just change for the sake of change. Which is what the left were accused of, once upon a time.
I sincerely hope. they won't suggest it for medicine. That really would be 'cat, meet some pigeons!'

Nurse! 1/2800oz of morphine, now, please!

What could possibly go wrong?

IshmaelZ said:

Nigelb said:

.

Dura_Ace said:

ydoethur said:

Farooq said:

Dura_Ace said:

Cicero said:

There are now over 40,000 refugees here, and this is, please remember, in a population of only 1.3 million. The fact that Britain is still imposing visa restrictions in a piecemeal and incompetent way so that essentially only family members of those Ukrainian citizens already in the country are being let in, means the total number of actual refugeesnin Britain is barely more than Estonia, for a country more than 50 times the size.

We recently had the first and apparently only visit from Social Services to make sure we aren't mistreating "our" Ukrainians. They were fucking hopeless and the Ukrainians found it very unsettling assuming it to be a visit from our version of the KGB. Which, in a sense, it was.

Interesting. Do you think there are any ways in which social services and the KGB are different?

Social services still exist, the KGB don't.

The KGB had some high profile successes as well as clusterfucks. Social services tend only to manage the latter (for 'high profile' cases).

This was a clusterfuck.

They insisted on having their own translator on the phone despite being told many times this wasn't necessary. The translator was fucking terrible and not translating accurately. One of the first things they said was something on the lines of, "We've have to make sure you wouldn't be better off somewhere else". This caused both Ukrainians to start weeping volubly. At this point I thought Mrs DA was going to ask to borrow my Ruger 10/22 and I was going to have to spend all night digging shallow graves in the woods.

Shallow is usually a mistake, I think ?

It's easy to sneer, but have you seen how deep a proper grave is? Just not achievable by one man in one night which is the time usually allowed

Carnyx said:

Theuniondivvie said:

LostPassword said:

Daveyboy1961 said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Theuniondivvie said:

'Ok guys, jus' spitballing here, but what if we try tunnels again, only in a different place?'

'Genius, trebles all round!'

Great! They work in Norway and the Faroes. Once again the UK is backwards when it comes to infrastructure.

How many Islands?.... How many tunnels?

Compared to a few ferries now and again?

Tunnels are always going to be better than ferries, due to not having to worry about the weather. Which is why the Greenwich foot tunnel was built during the reign of Queen Victoria.

I don't see any particular reason why the Orkney and Shetland Islands shouldn't follow the Faroes in having tunnels between some of the islands.

I'd say that the people suggesting it are short term political kite flyers rather than strategic planners, so a good reason for it almost definitely not happening (though not a bad idea per se).

Makes fair sense for the Shetland main island axis; though one would want to check how deeply glaciated the lateral troughs were. Orkney is more scattered, and the Churchill Barriers already connect the main ring around Scapa, apart from Hoy. A tunnel to the mainland would make some sense, esp if from Hoy to Thurso (and back to Stromness). But I don't think the UK boosters are really thinking: rail tunnels across the Dornoch Firth, Cromarty Firth (from Invergordon) and Kessock Narrows would be a huge improvement all round.

Carnyx said:

Farooq said:

LostPassword said:

Daveyboy1961 said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Theuniondivvie said:

'Ok guys, jus' spitballing here, but what if we try tunnels again, only in a different place?'

'Genius, trebles all round!'

Great! They work in Norway and the Faroes. Once again the UK is backwards when it comes to infrastructure.

How many Islands?.... How many tunnels?

Compared to a few ferries now and again?

Tunnels are always going to be better than ferries, due to not having to worry about the weather. Which is why the Greenwich foot tunnel was built during the reign of Queen Victoria.

I don't see any particular reason why the Orkney and Shetland Islands shouldn't follow the Faroes in having tunnels between some of the islands.

There's a tunnel in Greenwich that's only 30cm long?

Rotherhithe tunnel was earlier IIRC. Brunel sen and jun innit.

IshmaelZ said:

Nigelb said:

.

Dura_Ace said:

ydoethur said:

Farooq said:

Dura_Ace said:

Cicero said:

There are now over 40,000 refugees here, and this is, please remember, in a population of only 1.3 million. The fact that Britain is still imposing visa restrictions in a piecemeal and incompetent way so that essentially only family members of those Ukrainian citizens already in the country are being let in, means the total number of actual refugeesnin Britain is barely more than Estonia, for a country more than 50 times the size.

We recently had the first and apparently only visit from Social Services to make sure we aren't mistreating "our" Ukrainians. They were fucking hopeless and the Ukrainians found it very unsettling assuming it to be a visit from our version of the KGB. Which, in a sense, it was.

Interesting. Do you think there are any ways in which social services and the KGB are different?

Social services still exist, the KGB don't.

The KGB had some high profile successes as well as clusterfucks. Social services tend only to manage the latter (for 'high profile' cases).

This was a clusterfuck.

They insisted on having their own translator on the phone despite being told many times this wasn't necessary. The translator was fucking terrible and not translating accurately. One of the first things they said was something on the lines of, "We've have to make sure you wouldn't be better off somewhere else". This caused both Ukrainians to start weeping volubly. At this point I thought Mrs DA was going to ask to borrow my Ruger 10/22 and I was going to have to spend all night digging shallow graves in the woods.

Shallow is usually a mistake, I think ?

It's easy to sneer, but have you seen how deep a proper grave is? Just not achievable by one man in one night which is the time usually allowed

Applicant said:

Carnyx said:

Farooq said:

LostPassword said:

Daveyboy1961 said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Theuniondivvie said:

'Ok guys, jus' spitballing here, but what if we try tunnels again, only in a different place?'

'Genius, trebles all round!'

Great! They work in Norway and the Faroes. Once again the UK is backwards when it comes to infrastructure.

How many Islands?.... How many tunnels?

Compared to a few ferries now and again?

Tunnels are always going to be better than ferries, due to not having to worry about the weather. Which is why the Greenwich foot tunnel was built during the reign of Queen Victoria.

I don't see any particular reason why the Orkney and Shetland Islands shouldn't follow the Faroes in having tunnels between some of the islands.

There's a tunnel in Greenwich that's only 30cm long?

Rotherhithe tunnel was earlier IIRC. Brunel sen and jun innit.

I've walked through the Greenwich and Woolwich tunnels. Not Rotherhithe, yet.

https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/articles/walking-through-a-tunnel-under-the-thames-part-1-11764/

Nigelb said:

OldKingCole said:

Nigelb said:

Benpointer said:

Is it me or is the daily MOD brief on Ukraine becoming lost in the realms of wishful thinking?

https://twitter.com/DefenceHQ/status/1531143716840284161?s=20&t=FIwr0IRFqeu7iJ3RTVZDBQ

It starts with:
"Russia has likely suffered devastating losses amongst its mid and junior ranking officers..."

Whereas all the new outlets are indicating Russian progress, sadly, e.g. the BBC's "Heavy fighting as Russia advances into key eastern city".

No - both things you quote above are true.
Russia is taking territory, but slowly, and at great cost.

Ukraine claimed several T62s destroyed yesterday, so it seems Russia is genuinely reduced to throwing in obsolete replacements for their lost equipment.

They still have significantly superior artillery (in numbers, certainly), but recent and ongoing deliveries to Ukraine are beginning to redress the balance.
For now there's no real sign of Ukraine's resolve to fight weakening.

I remember the Korean War. The North attacked, drove the South and the Americans almost out of the peninsula. Then the Americans, ourselves and the South landed behind the Northern lines and they were driven back almost to the Chinese border.
Then the Chinese joined in and everyone ended up pretty well where they'd started.

That was a very different war, though, as it was as much, if not more a civil war as it was a contest between the west and Russia/China. True, the north invaded the south, but the post WWII division of the country was imposed rather than natural, and there were massive numbers of Koreans in both north and south opposed to the regimes they lived under.
As to your last point, that might be true of the border - it certainly isn't true of the people, as there were huge displacement of population in both directions.

Ukraine, in contrast is quite simply an invasion by a hostile power.

IshmaelZ said:

Carnyx said:

IshmaelZ said:

Carnyx said:

kle4 said:

Dura_Ace said:

Beibheirli_C said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

https://twitter.com/JAHeale/status/1531189521978728448

Prime Minister Boris Johnson now the least popular member of his own Cabinet among the Tory grassroots h/t @ConHome

Boris Johnson, winning again!

He will be announcing an order for Spitfires for the RAF next

The RAF already finds it absolutely necessary to operate six (and two Hurricanes).

Probably get more consistent use out of them than much of our kit?

The FAA have closed down their equivalent of the Battle of Britain Memorial Flight (more exactly, handed it over to a charitable trust AIUI). Their priorities are correct ...

After that twonk who took out 11 people at Shoreham i'd prefer these things to be maintained and flown by the Air Force, or not at all

Fair enough; but it is a secondary question. The first is, is it the job of the Raff to defend the kingdom or is it to give Brexiters wet underwear?

Well, it's also the job of the army to troop the Colour and the Navy to fire 87 gun salutes for HMQ. Soft power innit. The BoB was an actual thing, not a Leaver construct, and I have to say on the couple of occasions I have seen a Spitfire in flight it has brought a slight lump to my throat, and I am not a Brexiter.

Flatlander said:

Selebian said:

OldKingCole said:

LostPassword said:

williamglenn said:

Cicero said:

The response to this is "restore Imperial measurements". In otherwords, impose further costs on the UK economy for no economic gain whatsoever. Basically no one under the age of 60 has been taught the rules of the Imperial system, it is the kind of nostalgia that allows people in the their fifties to talk about the Second World War as though they had anything to do with it. This is a government that thinks going back to the 70s or even the 50s is the solution to their political ills.

Britian has got to escape this absurdity. The nostalgia trap will see us relegated to the lowest economic leagues. The fact that Johnson is doing it to try to save his own worthless political life is simply contemptible.

Allowing imperial measurements doesn't impose any costs at all because nobody is obliged to use them if they don't want to.

What's absurd is not giving up on imposing metric conformity but the hysterical reactions of people who engage in this kind of national psychoanalysis. What you're doing is not all that far removed from Maria Zakharova condemning Ukraine for wanting to claim borscht for itself.

It shouldn't be difficult with the aid of computers to provide prices in both sets of measures if people wish.

Then customers can use the set of measures that most suit them.

It's just change for the sake of change. Which is what the left were accused of, once upon a time.
I sincerely hope. they won't suggest it for medicine. That really would be 'cat, meet some pigeons!'

Nurse! 1/2800oz of morphine, now, please!

What could possibly go wrong?

Haven't there been incidents with the metric system where mg and μg have been confused? I think μg is banned as a notation in some parts.

Relying on a prefix makes it easier to get wrong. Particularly when the two prefixes are just the same letter in different languages.

Not that I would advocate for grains as an alternative.

ydoethur said:

Carnyx said:

Carnyx said:

Theuniondivvie said:

LostPassword said:

Daveyboy1961 said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Theuniondivvie said:

'Ok guys, jus' spitballing here, but what if we try tunnels again, only in a different place?'

'Genius, trebles all round!'

Great! They work in Norway and the Faroes. Once again the UK is backwards when it comes to infrastructure.

How many Islands?.... How many tunnels?

Compared to a few ferries now and again?

Tunnels are always going to be better than ferries, due to not having to worry about the weather. Which is why the Greenwich foot tunnel was built during the reign of Queen Victoria.

I don't see any particular reason why the Orkney and Shetland Islands shouldn't follow the Faroes in having tunnels between some of the islands.

I'd say that the people suggesting it are short term political kite flyers rather than strategic planners, so a good reason for it almost definitely not happening (though not a bad idea per se).

Makes fair sense for the Shetland main island axis; though one would want to check how deeply glaciated the lateral troughs were. Orkney is more scattered, and the Churchill Barriers already connect the main ring around Scapa, apart from Hoy. A tunnel to the mainland would make some sense, esp if from Hoy to Thurso (and back to Stromness). But I don't think the UK boosters are really thinking: rail tunnels across the Dornoch Firth, Cromarty Firth (from Invergordon) and Kessock Narrows would be a huge improvement all round.

For that matter a rail tunnel under the Firth of Forth to relieve capacity and fatigue loading on the Forth Bridge. There will have been enough studies done for the Queensferry Crossing, and as the Scots generally seem to deliver most such projects on time and within budget (rail electrification, Q. Crossing) in marked contrast to the DfT, it could be quite promising.

Shame about the ferries...

Carnyx said:

Applicant said:

Carnyx said:

Farooq said:

LostPassword said:

Daveyboy1961 said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Theuniondivvie said:

'Ok guys, jus' spitballing here, but what if we try tunnels again, only in a different place?'

'Genius, trebles all round!'

Great! They work in Norway and the Faroes. Once again the UK is backwards when it comes to infrastructure.

How many Islands?.... How many tunnels?

Compared to a few ferries now and again?

Tunnels are always going to be better than ferries, due to not having to worry about the weather. Which is why the Greenwich foot tunnel was built during the reign of Queen Victoria.

I don't see any particular reason why the Orkney and Shetland Islands shouldn't follow the Faroes in having tunnels between some of the islands.

There's a tunnel in Greenwich that's only 30cm long?

Rotherhithe tunnel was earlier IIRC. Brunel sen and jun innit.

I've walked through the Greenwich and Woolwich tunnels. Not Rotherhithe, yet.

https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/articles/walking-through-a-tunnel-under-the-thames-part-1-11764/

Only done Greenwich!

IIRC Rotherhithe might be tricky to walk through without being fried by accident. It was converted to a Tube line at some point, though I've been on the train through it. Not sure about current situation with all the changes.

Carnyx said:

Applicant said:

Carnyx said:

Farooq said:

LostPassword said:

Daveyboy1961 said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Theuniondivvie said:

'Ok guys, jus' spitballing here, but what if we try tunnels again, only in a different place?'

'Genius, trebles all round!'

Great! They work in Norway and the Faroes. Once again the UK is backwards when it comes to infrastructure.

How many Islands?.... How many tunnels?

Compared to a few ferries now and again?

Tunnels are always going to be better than ferries, due to not having to worry about the weather. Which is why the Greenwich foot tunnel was built during the reign of Queen Victoria.

I don't see any particular reason why the Orkney and Shetland Islands shouldn't follow the Faroes in having tunnels between some of the islands.

There's a tunnel in Greenwich that's only 30cm long?

Rotherhithe tunnel was earlier IIRC. Brunel sen and jun innit.

I've walked through the Greenwich and Woolwich tunnels. Not Rotherhithe, yet.

https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/articles/walking-through-a-tunnel-under-the-thames-part-1-11764/

Only done Greenwich!

IIRC Rotherhithe might be tricky to walk through without being fried by accident. It was converted to a Tube line at some point, though I've been on the train through it. Not sure about current situation with all the changes.

noneoftheabove said:

Carnyx said:

Applicant said:

Carnyx said:

Farooq said:

LostPassword said:

Daveyboy1961 said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Theuniondivvie said:

'Ok guys, jus' spitballing here, but what if we try tunnels again, only in a different place?'

'Genius, trebles all round!'

Great! They work in Norway and the Faroes. Once again the UK is backwards when it comes to infrastructure.

How many Islands?.... How many tunnels?

Compared to a few ferries now and again?

Tunnels are always going to be better than ferries, due to not having to worry about the weather. Which is why the Greenwich foot tunnel was built during the reign of Queen Victoria.

I don't see any particular reason why the Orkney and Shetland Islands shouldn't follow the Faroes in having tunnels between some of the islands.

There's a tunnel in Greenwich that's only 30cm long?

Rotherhithe tunnel was earlier IIRC. Brunel sen and jun innit.

I've walked through the Greenwich and Woolwich tunnels. Not Rotherhithe, yet.

https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/articles/walking-through-a-tunnel-under-the-thames-part-1-11764/

Only done Greenwich!

IIRC Rotherhithe might be tricky to walk through without being fried by accident. It was converted to a Tube line at some point, though I've been on the train through it. Not sure about current situation with all the changes.

The air quality is terrible, driving with windows open would make me feel ill, so it would be a terrible place to walk. I have seen the odd pedestrian but that is probably once every 50 trips. Cyclists are also fairly rare but a disaster to traffic flow as the exits are longish and uphill and nowhere to overtake them so one cyclist will add several minutes to a couple of hundred cars.

Big_G_NorthWales said:

So the French are blaming the Liverpool supporters

Carnyx said:

Carnyx said:

Theuniondivvie said:

LostPassword said:

Daveyboy1961 said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Theuniondivvie said:

'Ok guys, jus' spitballing here, but what if we try tunnels again, only in a different place?'

'Genius, trebles all round!'

Great! They work in Norway and the Faroes. Once again the UK is backwards when it comes to infrastructure.

How many Islands?.... How many tunnels?

Compared to a few ferries now and again?

Tunnels are always going to be better than ferries, due to not having to worry about the weather. Which is why the Greenwich foot tunnel was built during the reign of Queen Victoria.

I don't see any particular reason why the Orkney and Shetland Islands shouldn't follow the Faroes in having tunnels between some of the islands.

I'd say that the people suggesting it are short term political kite flyers rather than strategic planners, so a good reason for it almost definitely not happening (though not a bad idea per se).

Makes fair sense for the Shetland main island axis; though one would want to check how deeply glaciated the lateral troughs were. Orkney is more scattered, and the Churchill Barriers already connect the main ring around Scapa, apart from Hoy. A tunnel to the mainland would make some sense, esp if from Hoy to Thurso (and back to Stromness). But I don't think the UK boosters are really thinking: rail tunnels across the Dornoch Firth, Cromarty Firth (from Invergordon) and Kessock Narrows would be a huge improvement all round.

For that matter a rail tunnel under the Firth of Forth to relieve capacity and fatigue loading on the Forth Bridge. There will have been enough studies done for the Queensferry Crossing, and as the Scots generally seem to deliver most such projects on time and within budget (rail electrification, Q. Crossing) in marked contrast to the DfT, it could be quite promising.

Burgessian said:

Carnyx said:

Carnyx said:

Theuniondivvie said:

LostPassword said:

Daveyboy1961 said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Theuniondivvie said:

'Ok guys, jus' spitballing here, but what if we try tunnels again, only in a different place?'

'Genius, trebles all round!'

Great! They work in Norway and the Faroes. Once again the UK is backwards when it comes to infrastructure.

How many Islands?.... How many tunnels?

Compared to a few ferries now and again?

Tunnels are always going to be better than ferries, due to not having to worry about the weather. Which is why the Greenwich foot tunnel was built during the reign of Queen Victoria.

I don't see any particular reason why the Orkney and Shetland Islands shouldn't follow the Faroes in having tunnels between some of the islands.

I'd say that the people suggesting it are short term political kite flyers rather than strategic planners, so a good reason for it almost definitely not happening (though not a bad idea per se).

Makes fair sense for the Shetland main island axis; though one would want to check how deeply glaciated the lateral troughs were. Orkney is more scattered, and the Churchill Barriers already connect the main ring around Scapa, apart from Hoy. A tunnel to the mainland would make some sense, esp if from Hoy to Thurso (and back to Stromness). But I don't think the UK boosters are really thinking: rail tunnels across the Dornoch Firth, Cromarty Firth (from Invergordon) and Kessock Narrows would be a huge improvement all round.

For that matter a rail tunnel under the Firth of Forth to relieve capacity and fatigue loading on the Forth Bridge. There will have been enough studies done for the Queensferry Crossing, and as the Scots generally seem to deliver most such projects on time and within budget (rail electrification, Q. Crossing) in marked contrast to the DfT, it could be quite promising.

"and as the Scots generally seem to deliver most such projects on time and within budget"

The unfinished ferries at Ferguson's say "hi".

Beibheirli_C said:

IshmaelZ said:

StillWaters said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Applicant said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

I am glad from a political view that Labour now seem to have a popular view on the whole trans debate but I am going to be totally honest when I say, it doesn't impact how I vote and I don't know anyone else who it does either.

I can't believe there is somebody that goes, that CoL crisis is terrible and I am struggling to eat but those trans policies are a bridge too far, Tory for me. Am I wrong?

Ah, I see you're missing the point of the focus on the inability or unwillingness to define a woman.

More that you are missing the point that aside from the hyper partisan and the political zealots nobody else cares.

Its a fascinating bit of political bubble projection that people may be made poorer and may be fed up with the government's massive failings but can't vote Labour because of something one of them said about what a woman us.

Politics was much more fun when the grown ups were on both sides. Could have genuine policy debates. Now its more like having to explain to the other side very excited by lady cocks that their issue is very small and the voters are far away.

I’m not sure telling them they are “very small” is the best choice of phrase

Yeah, is he saying that lady dicks are not as big as mens'?

reactionary bilge.

Nothing reactionary about it. A clitoris is definitely smaller than a penis...

DecrepiterJohnL said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

So the French are blaming the Liverpool supporters

The French and quite a few on pb are blaming the Liverpool supporters.

Carnyx said:

Burgessian said:

Carnyx said:

Carnyx said:

Theuniondivvie said:

LostPassword said:

Daveyboy1961 said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Theuniondivvie said:

'Ok guys, jus' spitballing here, but what if we try tunnels again, only in a different place?'

'Genius, trebles all round!'

Great! They work in Norway and the Faroes. Once again the UK is backwards when it comes to infrastructure.

How many Islands?.... How many tunnels?

Compared to a few ferries now and again?

Tunnels are always going to be better than ferries, due to not having to worry about the weather. Which is why the Greenwich foot tunnel was built during the reign of Queen Victoria.

I don't see any particular reason why the Orkney and Shetland Islands shouldn't follow the Faroes in having tunnels between some of the islands.

I'd say that the people suggesting it are short term political kite flyers rather than strategic planners, so a good reason for it almost definitely not happening (though not a bad idea per se).

Makes fair sense for the Shetland main island axis; though one would want to check how deeply glaciated the lateral troughs were. Orkney is more scattered, and the Churchill Barriers already connect the main ring around Scapa, apart from Hoy. A tunnel to the mainland would make some sense, esp if from Hoy to Thurso (and back to Stromness). But I don't think the UK boosters are really thinking: rail tunnels across the Dornoch Firth, Cromarty Firth (from Invergordon) and Kessock Narrows would be a huge improvement all round.

For that matter a rail tunnel under the Firth of Forth to relieve capacity and fatigue loading on the Forth Bridge. There will have been enough studies done for the Queensferry Crossing, and as the Scots generally seem to deliver most such projects on time and within budget (rail electrification, Q. Crossing) in marked contrast to the DfT, it could be quite promising.

"and as the Scots generally seem to deliver most such projects on time and within budget"

The unfinished ferries at Ferguson's say "hi".

I said 'most'.

Big_G_NorthWales said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

So the French are blaming the Liverpool supporters

The French and quite a few on pb are blaming the Liverpool supporters.

I saw nothing yesterday to suggest Liverpool supporters behaved badly and remember I have been a Man Utd supporter for near 70 years

Mexicanpete said:

Some old nonsense just came through on Twitter. Is it true that Johnson went pro- Leave because the Telegraph threatened to remove his £275,000 pa hobble if he did not?

So the cost of Brexit was £275,000 pa. Let's put that on the side of a bus.

Conservative MPs get rid of this appalling man.

kinabalu said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

williamglenn said:

Cicero said:

The response to this is "restore Imperial measurements". In otherwords, impose further costs on the UK economy for no economic gain whatsoever. Basically no one under the age of 60 has been taught the rules of the Imperial system, it is the kind of nostalgia that allows people in the their fifties to talk about the Second World War as though they had anything to do with it. This is a government that thinks going back to the 70s or even the 50s is the solution to their political ills.

Britian has got to escape this absurdity. The nostalgia trap will see us relegated to the lowest economic leagues. The fact that Johnson is doing it to try to save his own worthless political life is simply contemptible.

Allowing imperial measurements doesn't impose any costs at all because nobody is obliged to use them if they don't want to.

What's absurd is not giving up on imposing metric conformity but the hysterical reactions of people who engage in this kind of national psychoanalysis. What you're doing is not all that far removed from Maria Zakharova condemning Ukraine for wanting to claim borscht for itself.

What is absurd is banging on about it as though it is an important subject for government to intervene on, but that is what populist apologists for Johnson are doing.

TBOBS - "Tangible Benefits of Brexit" - are so thin on the ground, though, that one has to take what one can get. In this case the visceral thrill of being able to buy a pound of King Edwards.

Scott_xP said:

The 60 Conservative MPs most at risk of losing their seat to Labour - many of whom represent 'red wall' seats - are strikingly more loyal to Johnson. Will this change if Labour win the Wakefield by-election? https://twitter.com/joe_armitage/status/1531233048779493378/photo/1

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Mexicanpete said:

Some old nonsense just came through on Twitter. Is it true that Johnson went pro- Leave because the Telegraph threatened to remove his £275,000 pa hobble if he did not?

So the cost of Brexit was £275,000 pa. Let's put that on the side of a bus.

Conservative MPs get rid of this appalling man.

I want Boris gone, but not because of Brexit, or covid which he was ahead of the game opening the economy, or indeed Ukraine where he has at least supported Ukraine while Germany and France prevaricate

I want him out for partygate and his arrogance in putting his mps and his party in disarray for his own selfish ego

Conservative mps just have to remove him

El_Capitano said:

rottenborough said:

Joe Armitage
@joe_armitage
The 39 Conservative MPs most at risk of losing their seats to the Lib Dems at the next election pose the greatest risk to Johnson. 7 have already submitted letters of no confidence and a lot are wavering.

https://twitter.com/joe_armitage/status/1531170019006201856

I would not be entirely astonished to see Caroline Nokes jump to the Lib Dems.

Stark_Dawning said:

Mexicanpete said:

Some old nonsense just came through on Twitter. Is it true that Johnson went pro- Leave because the Telegraph threatened to remove his £275,000 pa hobble if he did not?

So the cost of Brexit was £275,000 pa. Let's put that on the side of a bus.

Conservative MPs get rid of this appalling man.

Interesting if true. It might be that the famous two articles were actually an earlier and later draft. Boris submitted the Remain version, but then his masters at the Telegraph told him 'If you think we're publishing this crap you've got another thing coming. Do it again.' It certainly doesn't seem beyond the realms of possibility.

Leon said:

kinabalu said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

williamglenn said:

Cicero said:

The response to this is "restore Imperial measurements". In otherwords, impose further costs on the UK economy for no economic gain whatsoever. Basically no one under the age of 60 has been taught the rules of the Imperial system, it is the kind of nostalgia that allows people in the their fifties to talk about the Second World War as though they had anything to do with it. This is a government that thinks going back to the 70s or even the 50s is the solution to their political ills.

Britian has got to escape this absurdity. The nostalgia trap will see us relegated to the lowest economic leagues. The fact that Johnson is doing it to try to save his own worthless political life is simply contemptible.

Allowing imperial measurements doesn't impose any costs at all because nobody is obliged to use them if they don't want to.

What's absurd is not giving up on imposing metric conformity but the hysterical reactions of people who engage in this kind of national psychoanalysis. What you're doing is not all that far removed from Maria Zakharova condemning Ukraine for wanting to claim borscht for itself.

What is absurd is banging on about it as though it is an important subject for government to intervene on, but that is what populist apologists for Johnson are doing.

TBOBS - "Tangible Benefits of Brexit" - are so thin on the ground, though, that one has to take what one can get. In this case the visceral thrill of being able to buy a pound of King Edwards.

Ah, but it's the IBOBS that count. The Intangible Benefits of Brexit

Being a free man in a free country. Walking tall, like an American citizen in 1779, inhaling the pure forest air of independence.

We now own our mistakes. Boris Johnson might well be one of them. So we hurl him out of office. We cannot do that to Ursula of the Lying, the Unilateral Imposer of Article 16, but we don't have to worry any more, she has no power over us. We are free

In time, Intangible Benefits like Freedom and Independence tend to turn into Tangible Benefits. But it can take a while (Ireland took at least sixty years), so: brace

Dura_Ace said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

So the French are blaming the Liverpool supporters

The French and quite a few on pb are blaming the Liverpool supporters.

I saw nothing yesterday to suggest Liverpool supporters behaved badly and remember I have been a Man Utd supporter for near 70 years

I've go to say I've always found Liverpool supporters to be fairly genial. Nothing like, say, going to Oldham or Birmingham City where you get the impression that'd they definitely kick the snot of you given half a chance.

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Leon said:

kinabalu said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

williamglenn said:

Cicero said:

The response to this is "restore Imperial measurements". In otherwords, impose further costs on the UK economy for no economic gain whatsoever. Basically no one under the age of 60 has been taught the rules of the Imperial system, it is the kind of nostalgia that allows people in the their fifties to talk about the Second World War as though they had anything to do with it. This is a government that thinks going back to the 70s or even the 50s is the solution to their political ills.

Britian has got to escape this absurdity. The nostalgia trap will see us relegated to the lowest economic leagues. The fact that Johnson is doing it to try to save his own worthless political life is simply contemptible.

Allowing imperial measurements doesn't impose any costs at all because nobody is obliged to use them if they don't want to.

What's absurd is not giving up on imposing metric conformity but the hysterical reactions of people who engage in this kind of national psychoanalysis. What you're doing is not all that far removed from Maria Zakharova condemning Ukraine for wanting to claim borscht for itself.

What is absurd is banging on about it as though it is an important subject for government to intervene on, but that is what populist apologists for Johnson are doing.

TBOBS - "Tangible Benefits of Brexit" - are so thin on the ground, though, that one has to take what one can get. In this case the visceral thrill of being able to buy a pound of King Edwards.

Ah, but it's the IBOBS that count. The Intangible Benefits of Brexit

Being a free man in a free country. Walking tall, like an American citizen in 1779, inhaling the pure forest air of independence.

We now own our mistakes. Boris Johnson might well be one of them. So we hurl him out of office. We cannot do that to Ursula of the Lying, the Unilateral Imposer of Article 16, but we don't have to worry any more, she has no power over us. We are free

In time, Intangible Benefits like Freedom and Independence tend to turn into Tangible Benefits. But it can take a while (Ireland took at least sixty years), so: brace

That thing where you start out reading a contribution imagining it is satirical, and then about three quarters of the way through you realise that the poster is actually serious, and you check who posted it, and yes it is Leon.

Nigel_Foremain said:

Leon said:

kinabalu said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

williamglenn said:

Cicero said:

The response to this is "restore Imperial measurements". In otherwords, impose further costs on the UK economy for no economic gain whatsoever. Basically no one under the age of 60 has been taught the rules of the Imperial system, it is the kind of nostalgia that allows people in the their fifties to talk about the Second World War as though they had anything to do with it. This is a government that thinks going back to the 70s or even the 50s is the solution to their political ills.

Britian has got to escape this absurdity. The nostalgia trap will see us relegated to the lowest economic leagues. The fact that Johnson is doing it to try to save his own worthless political life is simply contemptible.

Allowing imperial measurements doesn't impose any costs at all because nobody is obliged to use them if they don't want to.

What's absurd is not giving up on imposing metric conformity but the hysterical reactions of people who engage in this kind of national psychoanalysis. What you're doing is not all that far removed from Maria Zakharova condemning Ukraine for wanting to claim borscht for itself.

What is absurd is banging on about it as though it is an important subject for government to intervene on, but that is what populist apologists for Johnson are doing.

TBOBS - "Tangible Benefits of Brexit" - are so thin on the ground, though, that one has to take what one can get. In this case the visceral thrill of being able to buy a pound of King Edwards.

Ah, but it's the IBOBS that count. The Intangible Benefits of Brexit

Being a free man in a free country. Walking tall, like an American citizen in 1779, inhaling the pure forest air of independence.

We now own our mistakes. Boris Johnson might well be one of them. So we hurl him out of office. We cannot do that to Ursula of the Lying, the Unilateral Imposer of Article 16, but we don't have to worry any more, she has no power over us. We are free

In time, Intangible Benefits like Freedom and Independence tend to turn into Tangible Benefits. But it can take a while (Ireland took at least sixty years), so: brace

We were perfectly free before you plonker. Otherwise how did we manage to decide for ourselves to have the referendum Duh!

Leon said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Leon said:

kinabalu said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

williamglenn said:

Cicero said:

The response to this is "restore Imperial measurements". In otherwords, impose further costs on the UK economy for no economic gain whatsoever. Basically no one under the age of 60 has been taught the rules of the Imperial system, it is the kind of nostalgia that allows people in the their fifties to talk about the Second World War as though they had anything to do with it. This is a government that thinks going back to the 70s or even the 50s is the solution to their political ills.

Britian has got to escape this absurdity. The nostalgia trap will see us relegated to the lowest economic leagues. The fact that Johnson is doing it to try to save his own worthless political life is simply contemptible.

Allowing imperial measurements doesn't impose any costs at all because nobody is obliged to use them if they don't want to.

What's absurd is not giving up on imposing metric conformity but the hysterical reactions of people who engage in this kind of national psychoanalysis. What you're doing is not all that far removed from Maria Zakharova condemning Ukraine for wanting to claim borscht for itself.

What is absurd is banging on about it as though it is an important subject for government to intervene on, but that is what populist apologists for Johnson are doing.

TBOBS - "Tangible Benefits of Brexit" - are so thin on the ground, though, that one has to take what one can get. In this case the visceral thrill of being able to buy a pound of King Edwards.

Ah, but it's the IBOBS that count. The Intangible Benefits of Brexit

Being a free man in a free country. Walking tall, like an American citizen in 1779, inhaling the pure forest air of independence.

We now own our mistakes. Boris Johnson might well be one of them. So we hurl him out of office. We cannot do that to Ursula of the Lying, the Unilateral Imposer of Article 16, but we don't have to worry any more, she has no power over us. We are free

In time, Intangible Benefits like Freedom and Independence tend to turn into Tangible Benefits. But it can take a while (Ireland took at least sixty years), so: brace

That thing where you start out reading a contribution imagining it is satirical, and then about three quarters of the way through you realise that the poster is actually serious, and you check who posted it, and yes it is Leon.

*glows with pride*

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Carnyx said:

Applicant said:

Carnyx said:

Farooq said:

LostPassword said:

Daveyboy1961 said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Theuniondivvie said:

'Ok guys, jus' spitballing here, but what if we try tunnels again, only in a different place?'

'Genius, trebles all round!'

Great! They work in Norway and the Faroes. Once again the UK is backwards when it comes to infrastructure.

How many Islands?.... How many tunnels?

Compared to a few ferries now and again?

Tunnels are always going to be better than ferries, due to not having to worry about the weather. Which is why the Greenwich foot tunnel was built during the reign of Queen Victoria.

I don't see any particular reason why the Orkney and Shetland Islands shouldn't follow the Faroes in having tunnels between some of the islands.

There's a tunnel in Greenwich that's only 30cm long?

Rotherhithe tunnel was earlier IIRC. Brunel sen and jun innit.

I've walked through the Greenwich and Woolwich tunnels. Not Rotherhithe, yet.

https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/articles/walking-through-a-tunnel-under-the-thames-part-1-11764/

Only done Greenwich!

IIRC Rotherhithe might be tricky to walk through without being fried by accident. It was converted to a Tube line at some point, though I've been on the train through it. Not sure about current situation with all the changes.

Rotherhithe is still a road tunnel, and unlike Blackwall you can still walk through it although the air quality must be awful and I've never seen anyone crazy enough to try. It's the much earlier tunnel built by Brunel that has been converted to rail use (formerly East London line, now the Overground) - although this tunnel also crosses at Rotherhithe.