What do Tory MPs think about this? – politicalbetting.com
Comments
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East Berlin was pretty edgy the last time I visited in 2008 but I've heard that the cost of housing has gone through the roof since then.Heathener said:p.s. I absolutely love Berlin.
Unlike some European cities gentrification has passed it by. I love the edginess.
Hire a bike on a weekend and cycle around the city: wonderful.0 -
The Snowdon mountain railway is closed during winterFarooq said:
So is Snowdonia shut past September?YBarddCwsc said:
I actually live in a formally very prosperous town in North Wales.Farooq said:
Except occupancy rates are already above the thresholds that will be affected by this!YBarddCwsc said:
North Wales is depopulating.Farooq said:
Exactly right.dixiedean said:
They don't bring in any income if they are empty.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Yes but they bring in the income that no doubt supports many of their jobsdixiedean said:
Tim Farron is running for re-election on the very question of holiday lets.Big_G_NorthWales said:
You are missing the point that all these businesses you quote are about to be hit with a tourist tax on top of thisFarooq said:
No, sorry, I don't believe you me.Big_G_NorthWales said:
This combined with the tourist tax will hit the holiday industry and believe you me it features all the time in the local media and Welsh news as various businesses forecast a fall in visitor numbers and a loss of holiday accommodationFarooq said:
It's not really destroying it, though, is it?Big_G_NorthWales said:
Destroying the holiday industry losing thousands of jobs in businesses across North Wales is madness and could only be dreamt up by a Corbynista who just does not understand the local economy and simply does not careFarooq said:
Maybe I just care about affordable housing more. Your empty-house policy leaves me as cold as a homeless person.Big_G_NorthWales said:
You clearly do not understand just how toxic this is for Welsh labour here in the heart of the North Wales holiday industry which is about to have a tourist tax put on them from Drakeford as wellFarooq said:
Sorry, this looks like great news. Why should properties that are empty for 294 days a year get a tax break?Big_G_NorthWales said:Drakeford's destroying North Wales holiday industry from Cardiff
Tourism leaders in Wales have reacted with horror to confirmation of new occupancy rules for second homes and holiday lets. From April 1, 2023, the Welsh Government will insist that self-catering properties are let for at least 182 days each year in a move critics say will “decimate” the Welsh tourism industry.
Holiday lettings firm Finest Retreats, which promotes 29 holiday cottages in Wales, warned the challenging occupancy target will hit rural economies the hardest by driving up prices and making the country a “less attractive place to visit”. Tom Giffard, Welsh Conservative shadow tourism minister said it was a “devastating blow”, adding: “These new letting requirements will frankly be impossible for many self-caterers to meet.”
The Wales Tourism Alliance (WTA), which represents 6,000 tourism operators in Wales, believes 84% of the country's holiday lets could now be forced to close. WTA chair Suzy Davies said genuine holiday businesses will be caught up in a policy designed to clamp down on second homes. “Like dolphins accidentally caught in fishing nets, these businesses will die,” she cautioned.
On Tuesday, finance minister Rebecca Evans issued a written statement confirming Cardiff was pushing ahead with its plans despite opposition from the tourism sector. As with the Welsh Government’s new council tax policies, the approach is designed to tackle the housing crisis in Welsh-speaking communities in holiday hotspots.
The minister acknowledged that the stronger criteria “may be challenging for some operators to meet”. But she said: “The purpose of the change is to help ensure property owners are making a fair contribution to local communities, for example by increasing their contribution to the local economy through greater letting activity, or by paying council tax on their properties.”
To continue paying business rates, holiday rentals must be let for 182 days from April 1, 2023. Currently, the threshold is just 70 days. If holidays fail to meet the threshold, they pay council tax instead - and from April 2023 local counties will have the power to charge a council tax premium of up to 300%, effectively quadrupling bills.
Let people live there instead of keeping them empty for occasional holidaymakers. Good work Welsh Labour.
These figures show that in the last three years before Covid, self-catering occupancy stood at 58%, 55% and 57%. So how many properties will really be caught up in that anyway?
https://gov.wales/sites/default/files/statistics-and-research/2021-01/wales-accommodation-occupancy-survey-2019_0.pdf
And scroll on a page, you'll see that North Wales's figures are actually the strongest in Wales, averaging at 64%.
Even if a number of providers decide to drop out of the market, all that will do is increase the occupancy in competitors.
No, sorry, it seems you've been taken in by a scare story. The numbers don't fit at all with the apocalyptic predictions. Welsh Labour derangement syndrome, as Leon would probably call it.
Apart from anything you're pretending the tourist industry is solely based around the kind of self-catering accommodation being referred to. Hotels, camping & caravans are a big part of the tourist industry, and non self-catering accommodation drives people to restaurants instead of supermarkets for their evening meal.
No, the more I think about this the more I think this is a good move. Prune out the holiday lets that are underoccupied and they become either better-run lets, or housing for actual people.
If this had been proposed for Devon and Cornwall or the Lake district you would have had a torrent of anger from the holiday industry
And by the way I do not lie
They aren't greatly popular in the Lakes with the locals who tend to rather priorities having somewhere to live.
There is a balance to be struck but applying a tourist tax and reducing holiday accommodation is not one of them
And reducing holiday accommodation is smack bang what Farron thinks will keep him his seat.
He probably knows better than me what the locals think.
https://inews.co.uk/news/housing-crisis-is-spoiling-the-beauty-of-the-lakes-we-need-to-regulate-holiday-lets-and-second-homes-1648417
Another way in which the article is silly is that this could encourage prices DOWN. Think about it. You can offer discounts on midweek off-season stays if the guest is staying the weekend. That might encourage some people to stay an extra day or two. That brings in more money, it doesn't increase the costs associated with booking, checking in and out, or other flat rates. The local economy gets a boost and the guests get more holiday without it breaking the bank. Everyone's a winner, except people who prefer to moan at the Welsh government for partisan reasons.
The growth of holiday accommodation/second homes is caused by economic policy.
If there are no jobs, then there is rural depopulation. The consequent growth in holiday accommodation is caused by the depopulation -- not the other way round. There are empty houses that can be bought cheaply and turned into holiday lets. If they were not holiday lets, they'd fall into disrepair.
There are plenty of falling down, sad, derelict houses in almost all areas of North Wales. People used to live in those houses. They don't now because of depopulation.
As for your ideas in holiday lets in Wales in the winter -- they are bonkers.
Most tourist attractions in North Wales are shut in low season. Most restaurants are shut then (or have very limited hours).
No one is going to go and spend a few extra days in the middle of winter at Talsarnau, when there is nothing to do, nothing is open and the weather is wet, just because of Drakeford's idiotic policy.
I don't think Drakeford's plan makes much sense, apart from in some of the coastal resorts where second homes are a real problem (e.g. Aberdyfi, Tenby, Abersoch, Gwyr). In the rest of the country @Big_G_NorthWales is right -- they will destroy businesses and value.
This isn't a policy that will affect the average let. It's the ones that are taking up space and not generating income. An empty guest house doesn't do anything for the local economy.
Since we're talking about empty properties, it seems to be more of a South Wales problem:
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/homes-property/part-wales-highest-number-empty-21360295
As for "tourist attractions" being shut in the winter, that really depends. Museums and galleries are often open outside high season. Natural spaces like Snowdonia, Holy Island, Alyn Waters are open all year round.
There are many houses that are just empty. I can go to my window and look out and count them. They are not second homes, they are just properties that are not let and no-one wants to live in.
I actually live in North Wales in the winter. I know the restaurants are usually shut completely in Jan & Feb, and they have restricted opening hours Oct-Mar
Museum and galleries in North Wales are almost always shut in the low season, apart from a few large attractions like Caernarfon Castle. Many CADW properties are shut in the winter.
Jesus .. you are behaving like HYUFD.
You live in Aberdeenshire, you are quoting guff from Welsh Government websites .. and everyone who knows North Wales is telling you that you are talking garbage.
If you told me something about Aberdeenshire, I'd believe you .. rather than going to google and quoting a government statistic back at you.
Can you get into Caernarfon Castle in December?
Hint: https://cadw.gov.wales/visit/places-to-visit/caernarfon-castle
Little Llandudno Museum is open 47 weeks a year.
You're making out like North Wales tourism is a rare orchid that flowers for nine minutes per year. I guess the 600,000 annual visitors to Snowdon are all up on the summit in one mad stampede?
Furthermore there are numerous times in the winter Snowdon is inaccessable
I am not sure you have even visited North Wales but from October to Easter few visitors are evident no matter if attractions are open0 -
A cynic might say because actually it is a 2nd home that is used by family for several months a year and then let to holiday makers in the gaps.FrancisUrquhart said:
What stops you renting it out to a friend for minor fee to make up your days?rottenborough said:
I'd be interested in some numbers here. If I have understood it, if you don't let for 6 months of year you will now pay 300% of council tax (as it is a 2nd home). Average council tax is what £2000 a year? So we are talking ≈≈ £6K.Big_G_NorthWales said:
It amazes me how someone living in the North East of Scotland attempts to argue with those of us who live in the area, are familiar with the proposals, and know the reaction from those in the holiday industryYBarddCwsc said:
I actually live in a formally very prosperous town in North Wales.Farooq said:
Except occupancy rates are already above the thresholds that will be affected by this!YBarddCwsc said:
North Wales is depopulating.Farooq said:
Exactly right.dixiedean said:
They don't bring in any income if they are empty.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Yes but they bring in the income that no doubt supports many of their jobsdixiedean said:
Tim Farron is running for re-election on the very question of holiday lets.Big_G_NorthWales said:
You are missing the point that all these businesses you quote are about to be hit with a tourist tax on top of thisFarooq said:
No, sorry, I don't believe you me.Big_G_NorthWales said:
This combined with the tourist tax will hit the holiday industry and believe you me it features all the time in the local media and Welsh news as various businesses forecast a fall in visitor numbers and a loss of holiday accommodationFarooq said:
It's not really destroying it, though, is it?Big_G_NorthWales said:
Destroying the holiday industry losing thousands of jobs in businesses across North Wales is madness and could only be dreamt up by a Corbynista who just does not understand the local economy and simply does not careFarooq said:
Maybe I just care about affordable housing more. Your empty-house policy leaves me as cold as a homeless person.Big_G_NorthWales said:
You clearly do not understand just how toxic this is for Welsh labour here in the heart of the North Wales holiday industry which is about to have a tourist tax put on them from Drakeford as wellFarooq said:
Sorry, this looks like great news. Why should properties that are empty for 294 days a year get a tax break?Big_G_NorthWales said:Drakeford's destroying North Wales holiday industry from Cardiff
Tourism leaders in Wales have reacted with horror to confirmation of new occupancy rules for second homes and holiday lets. From April 1, 2023, the Welsh Government will insist that self-catering properties are let for at least 182 days each year in a move critics say will “decimate” the Welsh tourism industry.
Holiday lettings firm Finest Retreats, which promotes 29 holiday cottages in Wales, warned the challenging occupancy target will hit rural economies the hardest by driving up prices and making the country a “less attractive place to visit”. Tom Giffard, Welsh Conservative shadow tourism minister said it was a “devastating blow”, adding: “These new letting requirements will frankly be impossible for many self-caterers to meet.”
The Wales Tourism Alliance (WTA), which represents 6,000 tourism operators in Wales, believes 84% of the country's holiday lets could now be forced to close. WTA chair Suzy Davies said genuine holiday businesses will be caught up in a policy designed to clamp down on second homes. “Like dolphins accidentally caught in fishing nets, these businesses will die,” she cautioned.
On Tuesday, finance minister Rebecca Evans issued a written statement confirming Cardiff was pushing ahead with its plans despite opposition from the tourism sector. As with the Welsh Government’s new council tax policies, the approach is designed to tackle the housing crisis in Welsh-speaking communities in holiday hotspots.
The minister acknowledged that the stronger criteria “may be challenging for some operators to meet”. But she said: “The purpose of the change is to help ensure property owners are making a fair contribution to local communities, for example by increasing their contribution to the local economy through greater letting activity, or by paying council tax on their properties.”
To continue paying business rates, holiday rentals must be let for 182 days from April 1, 2023. Currently, the threshold is just 70 days. If holidays fail to meet the threshold, they pay council tax instead - and from April 2023 local counties will have the power to charge a council tax premium of up to 300%, effectively quadrupling bills.
Let people live there instead of keeping them empty for occasional holidaymakers. Good work Welsh Labour.
These figures show that in the last three years before Covid, self-catering occupancy stood at 58%, 55% and 57%. So how many properties will really be caught up in that anyway?
https://gov.wales/sites/default/files/statistics-and-research/2021-01/wales-accommodation-occupancy-survey-2019_0.pdf
And scroll on a page, you'll see that North Wales's figures are actually the strongest in Wales, averaging at 64%.
Even if a number of providers decide to drop out of the market, all that will do is increase the occupancy in competitors.
No, sorry, it seems you've been taken in by a scare story. The numbers don't fit at all with the apocalyptic predictions. Welsh Labour derangement syndrome, as Leon would probably call it.
Apart from anything you're pretending the tourist industry is solely based around the kind of self-catering accommodation being referred to. Hotels, camping & caravans are a big part of the tourist industry, and non self-catering accommodation drives people to restaurants instead of supermarkets for their evening meal.
No, the more I think about this the more I think this is a good move. Prune out the holiday lets that are underoccupied and they become either better-run lets, or housing for actual people.
If this had been proposed for Devon and Cornwall or the Lake district you would have had a torrent of anger from the holiday industry
And by the way I do not lie
They aren't greatly popular in the Lakes with the locals who tend to rather priorities having somewhere to live.
There is a balance to be struck but applying a tourist tax and reducing holiday accommodation is not one of them
And reducing holiday accommodation is smack bang what Farron thinks will keep him his seat.
He probably knows better than me what the locals think.
https://inews.co.uk/news/housing-crisis-is-spoiling-the-beauty-of-the-lakes-we-need-to-regulate-holiday-lets-and-second-homes-1648417
Another way in which the article is silly is that this could encourage prices DOWN. Think about it. You can offer discounts on midweek off-season stays if the guest is staying the weekend. That might encourage some people to stay an extra day or two. That brings in more money, it doesn't increase the costs associated with booking, checking in and out, or other flat rates. The local economy gets a boost and the guests get more holiday without it breaking the bank. Everyone's a winner, except people who prefer to moan at the Welsh government for partisan reasons.
The growth of holiday accommodation/second homes is caused by economic policy.
If there are no jobs, then there is rural depopulation. The consequent growth in holiday accommodation is caused by the depopulation -- not the other way round. There are empty houses that can be bought cheaply and turned into holiday lets. If they were not holiday lets, they'd fall into disrepair.
There are plenty of falling down, sad, derelict houses in almost all areas of North Wales. People used to live in those houses. They don't now because of depopulation.
As for your ideas in holiday lets in Wales in the winter -- they are bonkers.
Most tourist attractions in North Wales are shut in low season. Most restaurants are shut then (or have very limited hours).
No one is going to go and spend a few extra days in the middle of winter at Talsarnau, when there is nothing to do, nothing is open and the weather is wet, just because of Drakeford's idiotic policy.
I don't think Drakeford's plan makes much sense, apart from in some of the coastal resorts where second homes are a real problem (e.g. Aberdyfi, Tenby, Abersoch, Gwyr). In the rest of the country @Big_G_NorthWales is right -- they will destroy businesses and value.
This isn't a policy that will affect the average let. It's the ones that are taking up space and not generating income. An empty guest house doesn't do anything for the local economy.
Since we're talking about empty properties, it seems to be more of a South Wales problem:
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/homes-property/part-wales-highest-number-empty-21360295
As for "tourist attractions" being shut in the winter, that really depends. Museums and galleries are often open outside high season. Natural spaces like Snowdonia, Holy Island, Alyn Waters are open all year round.
There are many houses that are just empty. I can go to my window and look out and count them. They are not second homes, they are just properties that are not let and no-one wants to live in.
I actually live in North Wales in the winter. I know the restaurants are usually shut completely in Jan & Feb, and they have restricted opening hours Oct-Mar
Museum and galleries in North Wales are almost always shut in the low season, apart from a few large attractions like Caernarfon Castle. Many CADW properties are shut in the winter.
Jesus .. you are behaving like HYUFD.
You live in Aberdeenshire, you are quoting guff from Welsh Government websites .. and everyone who knows North Wales is telling you that you are talking garbage.
If you told me something about Aberdeenshire, I'd believe you .. rather than going to google and quoting a government statistic back at you.
So what is the business rate on a holiday let cottage?
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I didn't say your mate actually stay there....i'll "rent" yours, you "rent" mine.rottenborough said:
A cynic might say because actually it is a 2nd home that is used by family for several months a year and then let to holiday makers in the gaps.FrancisUrquhart said:
What stops you renting it out to a friend for minor fee to make up your days?rottenborough said:
I'd be interested in some numbers here. If I have understood it, if you don't let for 6 months of year you will now pay 300% of council tax (as it is a 2nd home). Average council tax is what £2000 a year? So we are talking ≈≈ £6K.Big_G_NorthWales said:
It amazes me how someone living in the North East of Scotland attempts to argue with those of us who live in the area, are familiar with the proposals, and know the reaction from those in the holiday industryYBarddCwsc said:
I actually live in a formally very prosperous town in North Wales.Farooq said:
Except occupancy rates are already above the thresholds that will be affected by this!YBarddCwsc said:
North Wales is depopulating.Farooq said:
Exactly right.dixiedean said:
They don't bring in any income if they are empty.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Yes but they bring in the income that no doubt supports many of their jobsdixiedean said:
Tim Farron is running for re-election on the very question of holiday lets.Big_G_NorthWales said:
You are missing the point that all these businesses you quote are about to be hit with a tourist tax on top of thisFarooq said:
No, sorry, I don't believe you me.Big_G_NorthWales said:
This combined with the tourist tax will hit the holiday industry and believe you me it features all the time in the local media and Welsh news as various businesses forecast a fall in visitor numbers and a loss of holiday accommodationFarooq said:
It's not really destroying it, though, is it?Big_G_NorthWales said:
Destroying the holiday industry losing thousands of jobs in businesses across North Wales is madness and could only be dreamt up by a Corbynista who just does not understand the local economy and simply does not careFarooq said:
Maybe I just care about affordable housing more. Your empty-house policy leaves me as cold as a homeless person.Big_G_NorthWales said:
You clearly do not understand just how toxic this is for Welsh labour here in the heart of the North Wales holiday industry which is about to have a tourist tax put on them from Drakeford as wellFarooq said:
Sorry, this looks like great news. Why should properties that are empty for 294 days a year get a tax break?Big_G_NorthWales said:Drakeford's destroying North Wales holiday industry from Cardiff
Tourism leaders in Wales have reacted with horror to confirmation of new occupancy rules for second homes and holiday lets. From April 1, 2023, the Welsh Government will insist that self-catering properties are let for at least 182 days each year in a move critics say will “decimate” the Welsh tourism industry.
Holiday lettings firm Finest Retreats, which promotes 29 holiday cottages in Wales, warned the challenging occupancy target will hit rural economies the hardest by driving up prices and making the country a “less attractive place to visit”. Tom Giffard, Welsh Conservative shadow tourism minister said it was a “devastating blow”, adding: “These new letting requirements will frankly be impossible for many self-caterers to meet.”
The Wales Tourism Alliance (WTA), which represents 6,000 tourism operators in Wales, believes 84% of the country's holiday lets could now be forced to close. WTA chair Suzy Davies said genuine holiday businesses will be caught up in a policy designed to clamp down on second homes. “Like dolphins accidentally caught in fishing nets, these businesses will die,” she cautioned.
On Tuesday, finance minister Rebecca Evans issued a written statement confirming Cardiff was pushing ahead with its plans despite opposition from the tourism sector. As with the Welsh Government’s new council tax policies, the approach is designed to tackle the housing crisis in Welsh-speaking communities in holiday hotspots.
The minister acknowledged that the stronger criteria “may be challenging for some operators to meet”. But she said: “The purpose of the change is to help ensure property owners are making a fair contribution to local communities, for example by increasing their contribution to the local economy through greater letting activity, or by paying council tax on their properties.”
To continue paying business rates, holiday rentals must be let for 182 days from April 1, 2023. Currently, the threshold is just 70 days. If holidays fail to meet the threshold, they pay council tax instead - and from April 2023 local counties will have the power to charge a council tax premium of up to 300%, effectively quadrupling bills.
Let people live there instead of keeping them empty for occasional holidaymakers. Good work Welsh Labour.
These figures show that in the last three years before Covid, self-catering occupancy stood at 58%, 55% and 57%. So how many properties will really be caught up in that anyway?
https://gov.wales/sites/default/files/statistics-and-research/2021-01/wales-accommodation-occupancy-survey-2019_0.pdf
And scroll on a page, you'll see that North Wales's figures are actually the strongest in Wales, averaging at 64%.
Even if a number of providers decide to drop out of the market, all that will do is increase the occupancy in competitors.
No, sorry, it seems you've been taken in by a scare story. The numbers don't fit at all with the apocalyptic predictions. Welsh Labour derangement syndrome, as Leon would probably call it.
Apart from anything you're pretending the tourist industry is solely based around the kind of self-catering accommodation being referred to. Hotels, camping & caravans are a big part of the tourist industry, and non self-catering accommodation drives people to restaurants instead of supermarkets for their evening meal.
No, the more I think about this the more I think this is a good move. Prune out the holiday lets that are underoccupied and they become either better-run lets, or housing for actual people.
If this had been proposed for Devon and Cornwall or the Lake district you would have had a torrent of anger from the holiday industry
And by the way I do not lie
They aren't greatly popular in the Lakes with the locals who tend to rather priorities having somewhere to live.
There is a balance to be struck but applying a tourist tax and reducing holiday accommodation is not one of them
And reducing holiday accommodation is smack bang what Farron thinks will keep him his seat.
He probably knows better than me what the locals think.
https://inews.co.uk/news/housing-crisis-is-spoiling-the-beauty-of-the-lakes-we-need-to-regulate-holiday-lets-and-second-homes-1648417
Another way in which the article is silly is that this could encourage prices DOWN. Think about it. You can offer discounts on midweek off-season stays if the guest is staying the weekend. That might encourage some people to stay an extra day or two. That brings in more money, it doesn't increase the costs associated with booking, checking in and out, or other flat rates. The local economy gets a boost and the guests get more holiday without it breaking the bank. Everyone's a winner, except people who prefer to moan at the Welsh government for partisan reasons.
The growth of holiday accommodation/second homes is caused by economic policy.
If there are no jobs, then there is rural depopulation. The consequent growth in holiday accommodation is caused by the depopulation -- not the other way round. There are empty houses that can be bought cheaply and turned into holiday lets. If they were not holiday lets, they'd fall into disrepair.
There are plenty of falling down, sad, derelict houses in almost all areas of North Wales. People used to live in those houses. They don't now because of depopulation.
As for your ideas in holiday lets in Wales in the winter -- they are bonkers.
Most tourist attractions in North Wales are shut in low season. Most restaurants are shut then (or have very limited hours).
No one is going to go and spend a few extra days in the middle of winter at Talsarnau, when there is nothing to do, nothing is open and the weather is wet, just because of Drakeford's idiotic policy.
I don't think Drakeford's plan makes much sense, apart from in some of the coastal resorts where second homes are a real problem (e.g. Aberdyfi, Tenby, Abersoch, Gwyr). In the rest of the country @Big_G_NorthWales is right -- they will destroy businesses and value.
This isn't a policy that will affect the average let. It's the ones that are taking up space and not generating income. An empty guest house doesn't do anything for the local economy.
Since we're talking about empty properties, it seems to be more of a South Wales problem:
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/homes-property/part-wales-highest-number-empty-21360295
As for "tourist attractions" being shut in the winter, that really depends. Museums and galleries are often open outside high season. Natural spaces like Snowdonia, Holy Island, Alyn Waters are open all year round.
There are many houses that are just empty. I can go to my window and look out and count them. They are not second homes, they are just properties that are not let and no-one wants to live in.
I actually live in North Wales in the winter. I know the restaurants are usually shut completely in Jan & Feb, and they have restricted opening hours Oct-Mar
Museum and galleries in North Wales are almost always shut in the low season, apart from a few large attractions like Caernarfon Castle. Many CADW properties are shut in the winter.
Jesus .. you are behaving like HYUFD.
You live in Aberdeenshire, you are quoting guff from Welsh Government websites .. and everyone who knows North Wales is telling you that you are talking garbage.
If you told me something about Aberdeenshire, I'd believe you .. rather than going to google and quoting a government statistic back at you.
So what is the business rate on a holiday let cottage?0 -
Try going on the Snowdon Mountain Railway site:Farooq said:
So is Snowdonia shut past September?YBarddCwsc said:
I actually live in a formally very prosperous town in North Wales.Farooq said:
Except occupancy rates are already above the thresholds that will be affected by this!YBarddCwsc said:
North Wales is depopulating.Farooq said:
Exactly right.dixiedean said:
They don't bring in any income if they are empty.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Yes but they bring in the income that no doubt supports many of their jobsdixiedean said:
Tim Farron is running for re-election on the very question of holiday lets.Big_G_NorthWales said:
You are missing the point that all these businesses you quote are about to be hit with a tourist tax on top of thisFarooq said:
No, sorry, I don't believe you me.Big_G_NorthWales said:
This combined with the tourist tax will hit the holiday industry and believe you me it features all the time in the local media and Welsh news as various businesses forecast a fall in visitor numbers and a loss of holiday accommodationFarooq said:
It's not really destroying it, though, is it?Big_G_NorthWales said:
Destroying the holiday industry losing thousands of jobs in businesses across North Wales is madness and could only be dreamt up by a Corbynista who just does not understand the local economy and simply does not careFarooq said:
Maybe I just care about affordable housing more. Your empty-house policy leaves me as cold as a homeless person.Big_G_NorthWales said:
You clearly do not understand just how toxic this is for Welsh labour here in the heart of the North Wales holiday industry which is about to have a tourist tax put on them from Drakeford as wellFarooq said:
Sorry, this looks like great news. Why should properties that are empty for 294 days a year get a tax break?Big_G_NorthWales said:Drakeford's destroying North Wales holiday industry from Cardiff
Tourism leaders in Wales have reacted with horror to confirmation of new occupancy rules for second homes and holiday lets. From April 1, 2023, the Welsh Government will insist that self-catering properties are let for at least 182 days each year in a move critics say will “decimate” the Welsh tourism industry.
Holiday lettings firm Finest Retreats, which promotes 29 holiday cottages in Wales, warned the challenging occupancy target will hit rural economies the hardest by driving up prices and making the country a “less attractive place to visit”. Tom Giffard, Welsh Conservative shadow tourism minister said it was a “devastating blow”, adding: “These new letting requirements will frankly be impossible for many self-caterers to meet.”
The Wales Tourism Alliance (WTA), which represents 6,000 tourism operators in Wales, believes 84% of the country's holiday lets could now be forced to close. WTA chair Suzy Davies said genuine holiday businesses will be caught up in a policy designed to clamp down on second homes. “Like dolphins accidentally caught in fishing nets, these businesses will die,” she cautioned.
On Tuesday, finance minister Rebecca Evans issued a written statement confirming Cardiff was pushing ahead with its plans despite opposition from the tourism sector. As with the Welsh Government’s new council tax policies, the approach is designed to tackle the housing crisis in Welsh-speaking communities in holiday hotspots.
The minister acknowledged that the stronger criteria “may be challenging for some operators to meet”. But she said: “The purpose of the change is to help ensure property owners are making a fair contribution to local communities, for example by increasing their contribution to the local economy through greater letting activity, or by paying council tax on their properties.”
To continue paying business rates, holiday rentals must be let for 182 days from April 1, 2023. Currently, the threshold is just 70 days. If holidays fail to meet the threshold, they pay council tax instead - and from April 2023 local counties will have the power to charge a council tax premium of up to 300%, effectively quadrupling bills.
Let people live there instead of keeping them empty for occasional holidaymakers. Good work Welsh Labour.
These figures show that in the last three years before Covid, self-catering occupancy stood at 58%, 55% and 57%. So how many properties will really be caught up in that anyway?
https://gov.wales/sites/default/files/statistics-and-research/2021-01/wales-accommodation-occupancy-survey-2019_0.pdf
And scroll on a page, you'll see that North Wales's figures are actually the strongest in Wales, averaging at 64%.
Even if a number of providers decide to drop out of the market, all that will do is increase the occupancy in competitors.
No, sorry, it seems you've been taken in by a scare story. The numbers don't fit at all with the apocalyptic predictions. Welsh Labour derangement syndrome, as Leon would probably call it.
Apart from anything you're pretending the tourist industry is solely based around the kind of self-catering accommodation being referred to. Hotels, camping & caravans are a big part of the tourist industry, and non self-catering accommodation drives people to restaurants instead of supermarkets for their evening meal.
No, the more I think about this the more I think this is a good move. Prune out the holiday lets that are underoccupied and they become either better-run lets, or housing for actual people.
If this had been proposed for Devon and Cornwall or the Lake district you would have had a torrent of anger from the holiday industry
And by the way I do not lie
They aren't greatly popular in the Lakes with the locals who tend to rather priorities having somewhere to live.
There is a balance to be struck but applying a tourist tax and reducing holiday accommodation is not one of them
And reducing holiday accommodation is smack bang what Farron thinks will keep him his seat.
He probably knows better than me what the locals think.
https://inews.co.uk/news/housing-crisis-is-spoiling-the-beauty-of-the-lakes-we-need-to-regulate-holiday-lets-and-second-homes-1648417
Another way in which the article is silly is that this could encourage prices DOWN. Think about it. You can offer discounts on midweek off-season stays if the guest is staying the weekend. That might encourage some people to stay an extra day or two. That brings in more money, it doesn't increase the costs associated with booking, checking in and out, or other flat rates. The local economy gets a boost and the guests get more holiday without it breaking the bank. Everyone's a winner, except people who prefer to moan at the Welsh government for partisan reasons.
The growth of holiday accommodation/second homes is caused by economic policy.
If there are no jobs, then there is rural depopulation. The consequent growth in holiday accommodation is caused by the depopulation -- not the other way round. There are empty houses that can be bought cheaply and turned into holiday lets. If they were not holiday lets, they'd fall into disrepair.
There are plenty of falling down, sad, derelict houses in almost all areas of North Wales. People used to live in those houses. They don't now because of depopulation.
As for your ideas in holiday lets in Wales in the winter -- they are bonkers.
Most tourist attractions in North Wales are shut in low season. Most restaurants are shut then (or have very limited hours).
No one is going to go and spend a few extra days in the middle of winter at Talsarnau, when there is nothing to do, nothing is open and the weather is wet, just because of Drakeford's idiotic policy.
I don't think Drakeford's plan makes much sense, apart from in some of the coastal resorts where second homes are a real problem (e.g. Aberdyfi, Tenby, Abersoch, Gwyr). In the rest of the country @Big_G_NorthWales is right -- they will destroy businesses and value.
This isn't a policy that will affect the average let. It's the ones that are taking up space and not generating income. An empty guest house doesn't do anything for the local economy.
Since we're talking about empty properties, it seems to be more of a South Wales problem:
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/homes-property/part-wales-highest-number-empty-21360295
As for "tourist attractions" being shut in the winter, that really depends. Museums and galleries are often open outside high season. Natural spaces like Snowdonia, Holy Island, Alyn Waters are open all year round.
There are many houses that are just empty. I can go to my window and look out and count them. They are not second homes, they are just properties that are not let and no-one wants to live in.
I actually live in North Wales in the winter. I know the restaurants are usually shut completely in Jan & Feb, and they have restricted opening hours Oct-Mar
Museum and galleries in North Wales are almost always shut in the low season, apart from a few large attractions like Caernarfon Castle. Many CADW properties are shut in the winter.
Jesus .. you are behaving like HYUFD.
You live in Aberdeenshire, you are quoting guff from Welsh Government websites .. and everyone who knows North Wales is telling you that you are talking garbage.
If you told me something about Aberdeenshire, I'd believe you .. rather than going to google and quoting a government statistic back at you.
Can you get into Caernarfon Castle in December?
Hint: https://cadw.gov.wales/visit/places-to-visit/caernarfon-castle
Little Llandudno Museum is open 47 weeks a year.
You're making out like North Wales tourism is a rare orchid that flowers for nine minutes per year. I guess the 600,000 annual visitors to Snowdon are all up on the summit in one mad stampede?
"Diesel departures leave Llanberis Station daily (weather conditions permitting) from the 14th April until the end of October every 30 minutes from 9am, subject to passenger demand.
Steam departures run from the 3rd June until the 11th September three times a day from 10:30am (weather conditions permitting)."
I don't suppose it will convince you -- because, from your roosting spot in Aberdeenshire, you clearly know more about North Wales than the actual residents, or the people running tourist attractions like Snowdon Mountain Railway.1 -
You are one of Boris Johnson's cronies and I claim my £5.FrancisUrquhart said:
I didn't say your mate actually stay there....rottenborough said:
A cynic might say because actually it is a 2nd home that is used by family for several months a year and then let to holiday makers in the gaps.FrancisUrquhart said:
What stops you renting it out to a friend for minor fee to make up your days?rottenborough said:
I'd be interested in some numbers here. If I have understood it, if you don't let for 6 months of year you will now pay 300% of council tax (as it is a 2nd home). Average council tax is what £2000 a year? So we are talking ≈≈ £6K.Big_G_NorthWales said:
It amazes me how someone living in the North East of Scotland attempts to argue with those of us who live in the area, are familiar with the proposals, and know the reaction from those in the holiday industryYBarddCwsc said:
I actually live in a formally very prosperous town in North Wales.Farooq said:
Except occupancy rates are already above the thresholds that will be affected by this!YBarddCwsc said:
North Wales is depopulating.Farooq said:
Exactly right.dixiedean said:
They don't bring in any income if they are empty.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Yes but they bring in the income that no doubt supports many of their jobsdixiedean said:
Tim Farron is running for re-election on the very question of holiday lets.Big_G_NorthWales said:
You are missing the point that all these businesses you quote are about to be hit with a tourist tax on top of thisFarooq said:
No, sorry, I don't believe you me.Big_G_NorthWales said:
This combined with the tourist tax will hit the holiday industry and believe you me it features all the time in the local media and Welsh news as various businesses forecast a fall in visitor numbers and a loss of holiday accommodationFarooq said:
It's not really destroying it, though, is it?Big_G_NorthWales said:
Destroying the holiday industry losing thousands of jobs in businesses across North Wales is madness and could only be dreamt up by a Corbynista who just does not understand the local economy and simply does not careFarooq said:
Maybe I just care about affordable housing more. Your empty-house policy leaves me as cold as a homeless person.Big_G_NorthWales said:
You clearly do not understand just how toxic this is for Welsh labour here in the heart of the North Wales holiday industry which is about to have a tourist tax put on them from Drakeford as wellFarooq said:
Sorry, this looks like great news. Why should properties that are empty for 294 days a year get a tax break?Big_G_NorthWales said:Drakeford's destroying North Wales holiday industry from Cardiff
Tourism leaders in Wales have reacted with horror to confirmation of new occupancy rules for second homes and holiday lets. From April 1, 2023, the Welsh Government will insist that self-catering properties are let for at least 182 days each year in a move critics say will “decimate” the Welsh tourism industry.
Holiday lettings firm Finest Retreats, which promotes 29 holiday cottages in Wales, warned the challenging occupancy target will hit rural economies the hardest by driving up prices and making the country a “less attractive place to visit”. Tom Giffard, Welsh Conservative shadow tourism minister said it was a “devastating blow”, adding: “These new letting requirements will frankly be impossible for many self-caterers to meet.”
The Wales Tourism Alliance (WTA), which represents 6,000 tourism operators in Wales, believes 84% of the country's holiday lets could now be forced to close. WTA chair Suzy Davies said genuine holiday businesses will be caught up in a policy designed to clamp down on second homes. “Like dolphins accidentally caught in fishing nets, these businesses will die,” she cautioned.
On Tuesday, finance minister Rebecca Evans issued a written statement confirming Cardiff was pushing ahead with its plans despite opposition from the tourism sector. As with the Welsh Government’s new council tax policies, the approach is designed to tackle the housing crisis in Welsh-speaking communities in holiday hotspots.
The minister acknowledged that the stronger criteria “may be challenging for some operators to meet”. But she said: “The purpose of the change is to help ensure property owners are making a fair contribution to local communities, for example by increasing their contribution to the local economy through greater letting activity, or by paying council tax on their properties.”
To continue paying business rates, holiday rentals must be let for 182 days from April 1, 2023. Currently, the threshold is just 70 days. If holidays fail to meet the threshold, they pay council tax instead - and from April 2023 local counties will have the power to charge a council tax premium of up to 300%, effectively quadrupling bills.
Let people live there instead of keeping them empty for occasional holidaymakers. Good work Welsh Labour.
These figures show that in the last three years before Covid, self-catering occupancy stood at 58%, 55% and 57%. So how many properties will really be caught up in that anyway?
https://gov.wales/sites/default/files/statistics-and-research/2021-01/wales-accommodation-occupancy-survey-2019_0.pdf
And scroll on a page, you'll see that North Wales's figures are actually the strongest in Wales, averaging at 64%.
Even if a number of providers decide to drop out of the market, all that will do is increase the occupancy in competitors.
No, sorry, it seems you've been taken in by a scare story. The numbers don't fit at all with the apocalyptic predictions. Welsh Labour derangement syndrome, as Leon would probably call it.
Apart from anything you're pretending the tourist industry is solely based around the kind of self-catering accommodation being referred to. Hotels, camping & caravans are a big part of the tourist industry, and non self-catering accommodation drives people to restaurants instead of supermarkets for their evening meal.
No, the more I think about this the more I think this is a good move. Prune out the holiday lets that are underoccupied and they become either better-run lets, or housing for actual people.
If this had been proposed for Devon and Cornwall or the Lake district you would have had a torrent of anger from the holiday industry
And by the way I do not lie
They aren't greatly popular in the Lakes with the locals who tend to rather priorities having somewhere to live.
There is a balance to be struck but applying a tourist tax and reducing holiday accommodation is not one of them
And reducing holiday accommodation is smack bang what Farron thinks will keep him his seat.
He probably knows better than me what the locals think.
https://inews.co.uk/news/housing-crisis-is-spoiling-the-beauty-of-the-lakes-we-need-to-regulate-holiday-lets-and-second-homes-1648417
Another way in which the article is silly is that this could encourage prices DOWN. Think about it. You can offer discounts on midweek off-season stays if the guest is staying the weekend. That might encourage some people to stay an extra day or two. That brings in more money, it doesn't increase the costs associated with booking, checking in and out, or other flat rates. The local economy gets a boost and the guests get more holiday without it breaking the bank. Everyone's a winner, except people who prefer to moan at the Welsh government for partisan reasons.
The growth of holiday accommodation/second homes is caused by economic policy.
If there are no jobs, then there is rural depopulation. The consequent growth in holiday accommodation is caused by the depopulation -- not the other way round. There are empty houses that can be bought cheaply and turned into holiday lets. If they were not holiday lets, they'd fall into disrepair.
There are plenty of falling down, sad, derelict houses in almost all areas of North Wales. People used to live in those houses. They don't now because of depopulation.
As for your ideas in holiday lets in Wales in the winter -- they are bonkers.
Most tourist attractions in North Wales are shut in low season. Most restaurants are shut then (or have very limited hours).
No one is going to go and spend a few extra days in the middle of winter at Talsarnau, when there is nothing to do, nothing is open and the weather is wet, just because of Drakeford's idiotic policy.
I don't think Drakeford's plan makes much sense, apart from in some of the coastal resorts where second homes are a real problem (e.g. Aberdyfi, Tenby, Abersoch, Gwyr). In the rest of the country @Big_G_NorthWales is right -- they will destroy businesses and value.
This isn't a policy that will affect the average let. It's the ones that are taking up space and not generating income. An empty guest house doesn't do anything for the local economy.
Since we're talking about empty properties, it seems to be more of a South Wales problem:
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/homes-property/part-wales-highest-number-empty-21360295
As for "tourist attractions" being shut in the winter, that really depends. Museums and galleries are often open outside high season. Natural spaces like Snowdonia, Holy Island, Alyn Waters are open all year round.
There are many houses that are just empty. I can go to my window and look out and count them. They are not second homes, they are just properties that are not let and no-one wants to live in.
I actually live in North Wales in the winter. I know the restaurants are usually shut completely in Jan & Feb, and they have restricted opening hours Oct-Mar
Museum and galleries in North Wales are almost always shut in the low season, apart from a few large attractions like Caernarfon Castle. Many CADW properties are shut in the winter.
Jesus .. you are behaving like HYUFD.
You live in Aberdeenshire, you are quoting guff from Welsh Government websites .. and everyone who knows North Wales is telling you that you are talking garbage.
If you told me something about Aberdeenshire, I'd believe you .. rather than going to google and quoting a government statistic back at you.
So what is the business rate on a holiday let cottage?
0 -
Nahhh, we know how to throw a proper party at Chez Urquhart....rottenborough said:
You are one of Boris Johnson's cronies and I claim my £5.FrancisUrquhart said:
I didn't say your mate actually stay there....rottenborough said:
A cynic might say because actually it is a 2nd home that is used by family for several months a year and then let to holiday makers in the gaps.FrancisUrquhart said:
What stops you renting it out to a friend for minor fee to make up your days?rottenborough said:
I'd be interested in some numbers here. If I have understood it, if you don't let for 6 months of year you will now pay 300% of council tax (as it is a 2nd home). Average council tax is what £2000 a year? So we are talking ≈≈ £6K.Big_G_NorthWales said:
It amazes me how someone living in the North East of Scotland attempts to argue with those of us who live in the area, are familiar with the proposals, and know the reaction from those in the holiday industryYBarddCwsc said:
I actually live in a formally very prosperous town in North Wales.Farooq said:
Except occupancy rates are already above the thresholds that will be affected by this!YBarddCwsc said:
North Wales is depopulating.Farooq said:
Exactly right.dixiedean said:
They don't bring in any income if they are empty.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Yes but they bring in the income that no doubt supports many of their jobsdixiedean said:
Tim Farron is running for re-election on the very question of holiday lets.Big_G_NorthWales said:
You are missing the point that all these businesses you quote are about to be hit with a tourist tax on top of thisFarooq said:
No, sorry, I don't believe you me.Big_G_NorthWales said:
This combined with the tourist tax will hit the holiday industry and believe you me it features all the time in the local media and Welsh news as various businesses forecast a fall in visitor numbers and a loss of holiday accommodationFarooq said:
It's not really destroying it, though, is it?Big_G_NorthWales said:
Destroying the holiday industry losing thousands of jobs in businesses across North Wales is madness and could only be dreamt up by a Corbynista who just does not understand the local economy and simply does not careFarooq said:
Maybe I just care about affordable housing more. Your empty-house policy leaves me as cold as a homeless person.Big_G_NorthWales said:
You clearly do not understand just how toxic this is for Welsh labour here in the heart of the North Wales holiday industry which is about to have a tourist tax put on them from Drakeford as wellFarooq said:
Sorry, this looks like great news. Why should properties that are empty for 294 days a year get a tax break?Big_G_NorthWales said:Drakeford's destroying North Wales holiday industry from Cardiff
Tourism leaders in Wales have reacted with horror to confirmation of new occupancy rules for second homes and holiday lets. From April 1, 2023, the Welsh Government will insist that self-catering properties are let for at least 182 days each year in a move critics say will “decimate” the Welsh tourism industry.
Holiday lettings firm Finest Retreats, which promotes 29 holiday cottages in Wales, warned the challenging occupancy target will hit rural economies the hardest by driving up prices and making the country a “less attractive place to visit”. Tom Giffard, Welsh Conservative shadow tourism minister said it was a “devastating blow”, adding: “These new letting requirements will frankly be impossible for many self-caterers to meet.”
The Wales Tourism Alliance (WTA), which represents 6,000 tourism operators in Wales, believes 84% of the country's holiday lets could now be forced to close. WTA chair Suzy Davies said genuine holiday businesses will be caught up in a policy designed to clamp down on second homes. “Like dolphins accidentally caught in fishing nets, these businesses will die,” she cautioned.
On Tuesday, finance minister Rebecca Evans issued a written statement confirming Cardiff was pushing ahead with its plans despite opposition from the tourism sector. As with the Welsh Government’s new council tax policies, the approach is designed to tackle the housing crisis in Welsh-speaking communities in holiday hotspots.
The minister acknowledged that the stronger criteria “may be challenging for some operators to meet”. But she said: “The purpose of the change is to help ensure property owners are making a fair contribution to local communities, for example by increasing their contribution to the local economy through greater letting activity, or by paying council tax on their properties.”
To continue paying business rates, holiday rentals must be let for 182 days from April 1, 2023. Currently, the threshold is just 70 days. If holidays fail to meet the threshold, they pay council tax instead - and from April 2023 local counties will have the power to charge a council tax premium of up to 300%, effectively quadrupling bills.
Let people live there instead of keeping them empty for occasional holidaymakers. Good work Welsh Labour.
These figures show that in the last three years before Covid, self-catering occupancy stood at 58%, 55% and 57%. So how many properties will really be caught up in that anyway?
https://gov.wales/sites/default/files/statistics-and-research/2021-01/wales-accommodation-occupancy-survey-2019_0.pdf
And scroll on a page, you'll see that North Wales's figures are actually the strongest in Wales, averaging at 64%.
Even if a number of providers decide to drop out of the market, all that will do is increase the occupancy in competitors.
No, sorry, it seems you've been taken in by a scare story. The numbers don't fit at all with the apocalyptic predictions. Welsh Labour derangement syndrome, as Leon would probably call it.
Apart from anything you're pretending the tourist industry is solely based around the kind of self-catering accommodation being referred to. Hotels, camping & caravans are a big part of the tourist industry, and non self-catering accommodation drives people to restaurants instead of supermarkets for their evening meal.
No, the more I think about this the more I think this is a good move. Prune out the holiday lets that are underoccupied and they become either better-run lets, or housing for actual people.
If this had been proposed for Devon and Cornwall or the Lake district you would have had a torrent of anger from the holiday industry
And by the way I do not lie
They aren't greatly popular in the Lakes with the locals who tend to rather priorities having somewhere to live.
There is a balance to be struck but applying a tourist tax and reducing holiday accommodation is not one of them
And reducing holiday accommodation is smack bang what Farron thinks will keep him his seat.
He probably knows better than me what the locals think.
https://inews.co.uk/news/housing-crisis-is-spoiling-the-beauty-of-the-lakes-we-need-to-regulate-holiday-lets-and-second-homes-1648417
Another way in which the article is silly is that this could encourage prices DOWN. Think about it. You can offer discounts on midweek off-season stays if the guest is staying the weekend. That might encourage some people to stay an extra day or two. That brings in more money, it doesn't increase the costs associated with booking, checking in and out, or other flat rates. The local economy gets a boost and the guests get more holiday without it breaking the bank. Everyone's a winner, except people who prefer to moan at the Welsh government for partisan reasons.
The growth of holiday accommodation/second homes is caused by economic policy.
If there are no jobs, then there is rural depopulation. The consequent growth in holiday accommodation is caused by the depopulation -- not the other way round. There are empty houses that can be bought cheaply and turned into holiday lets. If they were not holiday lets, they'd fall into disrepair.
There are plenty of falling down, sad, derelict houses in almost all areas of North Wales. People used to live in those houses. They don't now because of depopulation.
As for your ideas in holiday lets in Wales in the winter -- they are bonkers.
Most tourist attractions in North Wales are shut in low season. Most restaurants are shut then (or have very limited hours).
No one is going to go and spend a few extra days in the middle of winter at Talsarnau, when there is nothing to do, nothing is open and the weather is wet, just because of Drakeford's idiotic policy.
I don't think Drakeford's plan makes much sense, apart from in some of the coastal resorts where second homes are a real problem (e.g. Aberdyfi, Tenby, Abersoch, Gwyr). In the rest of the country @Big_G_NorthWales is right -- they will destroy businesses and value.
This isn't a policy that will affect the average let. It's the ones that are taking up space and not generating income. An empty guest house doesn't do anything for the local economy.
Since we're talking about empty properties, it seems to be more of a South Wales problem:
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/homes-property/part-wales-highest-number-empty-21360295
As for "tourist attractions" being shut in the winter, that really depends. Museums and galleries are often open outside high season. Natural spaces like Snowdonia, Holy Island, Alyn Waters are open all year round.
There are many houses that are just empty. I can go to my window and look out and count them. They are not second homes, they are just properties that are not let and no-one wants to live in.
I actually live in North Wales in the winter. I know the restaurants are usually shut completely in Jan & Feb, and they have restricted opening hours Oct-Mar
Museum and galleries in North Wales are almost always shut in the low season, apart from a few large attractions like Caernarfon Castle. Many CADW properties are shut in the winter.
Jesus .. you are behaving like HYUFD.
You live in Aberdeenshire, you are quoting guff from Welsh Government websites .. and everyone who knows North Wales is telling you that you are talking garbage.
If you told me something about Aberdeenshire, I'd believe you .. rather than going to google and quoting a government statistic back at you.
So what is the business rate on a holiday let cottage?1 -
It is pointless arguing with someone who has the @HYUFD attitude that he is right no matter others who are in touch with the issues dailyYBarddCwsc said:
Try going on the Snowdon Mountain Railway site:Farooq said:
So is Snowdonia shut past September?YBarddCwsc said:
I actually live in a formally very prosperous town in North Wales.Farooq said:
Except occupancy rates are already above the thresholds that will be affected by this!YBarddCwsc said:
North Wales is depopulating.Farooq said:
Exactly right.dixiedean said:
They don't bring in any income if they are empty.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Yes but they bring in the income that no doubt supports many of their jobsdixiedean said:
Tim Farron is running for re-election on the very question of holiday lets.Big_G_NorthWales said:
You are missing the point that all these businesses you quote are about to be hit with a tourist tax on top of thisFarooq said:
No, sorry, I don't believe you me.Big_G_NorthWales said:
This combined with the tourist tax will hit the holiday industry and believe you me it features all the time in the local media and Welsh news as various businesses forecast a fall in visitor numbers and a loss of holiday accommodationFarooq said:
It's not really destroying it, though, is it?Big_G_NorthWales said:
Destroying the holiday industry losing thousands of jobs in businesses across North Wales is madness and could only be dreamt up by a Corbynista who just does not understand the local economy and simply does not careFarooq said:
Maybe I just care about affordable housing more. Your empty-house policy leaves me as cold as a homeless person.Big_G_NorthWales said:
You clearly do not understand just how toxic this is for Welsh labour here in the heart of the North Wales holiday industry which is about to have a tourist tax put on them from Drakeford as wellFarooq said:
Sorry, this looks like great news. Why should properties that are empty for 294 days a year get a tax break?Big_G_NorthWales said:Drakeford's destroying North Wales holiday industry from Cardiff
Tourism leaders in Wales have reacted with horror to confirmation of new occupancy rules for second homes and holiday lets. From April 1, 2023, the Welsh Government will insist that self-catering properties are let for at least 182 days each year in a move critics say will “decimate” the Welsh tourism industry.
Holiday lettings firm Finest Retreats, which promotes 29 holiday cottages in Wales, warned the challenging occupancy target will hit rural economies the hardest by driving up prices and making the country a “less attractive place to visit”. Tom Giffard, Welsh Conservative shadow tourism minister said it was a “devastating blow”, adding: “These new letting requirements will frankly be impossible for many self-caterers to meet.”
The Wales Tourism Alliance (WTA), which represents 6,000 tourism operators in Wales, believes 84% of the country's holiday lets could now be forced to close. WTA chair Suzy Davies said genuine holiday businesses will be caught up in a policy designed to clamp down on second homes. “Like dolphins accidentally caught in fishing nets, these businesses will die,” she cautioned.
On Tuesday, finance minister Rebecca Evans issued a written statement confirming Cardiff was pushing ahead with its plans despite opposition from the tourism sector. As with the Welsh Government’s new council tax policies, the approach is designed to tackle the housing crisis in Welsh-speaking communities in holiday hotspots.
The minister acknowledged that the stronger criteria “may be challenging for some operators to meet”. But she said: “The purpose of the change is to help ensure property owners are making a fair contribution to local communities, for example by increasing their contribution to the local economy through greater letting activity, or by paying council tax on their properties.”
To continue paying business rates, holiday rentals must be let for 182 days from April 1, 2023. Currently, the threshold is just 70 days. If holidays fail to meet the threshold, they pay council tax instead - and from April 2023 local counties will have the power to charge a council tax premium of up to 300%, effectively quadrupling bills.
Let people live there instead of keeping them empty for occasional holidaymakers. Good work Welsh Labour.
These figures show that in the last three years before Covid, self-catering occupancy stood at 58%, 55% and 57%. So how many properties will really be caught up in that anyway?
https://gov.wales/sites/default/files/statistics-and-research/2021-01/wales-accommodation-occupancy-survey-2019_0.pdf
And scroll on a page, you'll see that North Wales's figures are actually the strongest in Wales, averaging at 64%.
Even if a number of providers decide to drop out of the market, all that will do is increase the occupancy in competitors.
No, sorry, it seems you've been taken in by a scare story. The numbers don't fit at all with the apocalyptic predictions. Welsh Labour derangement syndrome, as Leon would probably call it.
Apart from anything you're pretending the tourist industry is solely based around the kind of self-catering accommodation being referred to. Hotels, camping & caravans are a big part of the tourist industry, and non self-catering accommodation drives people to restaurants instead of supermarkets for their evening meal.
No, the more I think about this the more I think this is a good move. Prune out the holiday lets that are underoccupied and they become either better-run lets, or housing for actual people.
If this had been proposed for Devon and Cornwall or the Lake district you would have had a torrent of anger from the holiday industry
And by the way I do not lie
They aren't greatly popular in the Lakes with the locals who tend to rather priorities having somewhere to live.
There is a balance to be struck but applying a tourist tax and reducing holiday accommodation is not one of them
And reducing holiday accommodation is smack bang what Farron thinks will keep him his seat.
He probably knows better than me what the locals think.
https://inews.co.uk/news/housing-crisis-is-spoiling-the-beauty-of-the-lakes-we-need-to-regulate-holiday-lets-and-second-homes-1648417
Another way in which the article is silly is that this could encourage prices DOWN. Think about it. You can offer discounts on midweek off-season stays if the guest is staying the weekend. That might encourage some people to stay an extra day or two. That brings in more money, it doesn't increase the costs associated with booking, checking in and out, or other flat rates. The local economy gets a boost and the guests get more holiday without it breaking the bank. Everyone's a winner, except people who prefer to moan at the Welsh government for partisan reasons.
The growth of holiday accommodation/second homes is caused by economic policy.
If there are no jobs, then there is rural depopulation. The consequent growth in holiday accommodation is caused by the depopulation -- not the other way round. There are empty houses that can be bought cheaply and turned into holiday lets. If they were not holiday lets, they'd fall into disrepair.
There are plenty of falling down, sad, derelict houses in almost all areas of North Wales. People used to live in those houses. They don't now because of depopulation.
As for your ideas in holiday lets in Wales in the winter -- they are bonkers.
Most tourist attractions in North Wales are shut in low season. Most restaurants are shut then (or have very limited hours).
No one is going to go and spend a few extra days in the middle of winter at Talsarnau, when there is nothing to do, nothing is open and the weather is wet, just because of Drakeford's idiotic policy.
I don't think Drakeford's plan makes much sense, apart from in some of the coastal resorts where second homes are a real problem (e.g. Aberdyfi, Tenby, Abersoch, Gwyr). In the rest of the country @Big_G_NorthWales is right -- they will destroy businesses and value.
This isn't a policy that will affect the average let. It's the ones that are taking up space and not generating income. An empty guest house doesn't do anything for the local economy.
Since we're talking about empty properties, it seems to be more of a South Wales problem:
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/homes-property/part-wales-highest-number-empty-21360295
As for "tourist attractions" being shut in the winter, that really depends. Museums and galleries are often open outside high season. Natural spaces like Snowdonia, Holy Island, Alyn Waters are open all year round.
There are many houses that are just empty. I can go to my window and look out and count them. They are not second homes, they are just properties that are not let and no-one wants to live in.
I actually live in North Wales in the winter. I know the restaurants are usually shut completely in Jan & Feb, and they have restricted opening hours Oct-Mar
Museum and galleries in North Wales are almost always shut in the low season, apart from a few large attractions like Caernarfon Castle. Many CADW properties are shut in the winter.
Jesus .. you are behaving like HYUFD.
You live in Aberdeenshire, you are quoting guff from Welsh Government websites .. and everyone who knows North Wales is telling you that you are talking garbage.
If you told me something about Aberdeenshire, I'd believe you .. rather than going to google and quoting a government statistic back at you.
Can you get into Caernarfon Castle in December?
Hint: https://cadw.gov.wales/visit/places-to-visit/caernarfon-castle
Little Llandudno Museum is open 47 weeks a year.
You're making out like North Wales tourism is a rare orchid that flowers for nine minutes per year. I guess the 600,000 annual visitors to Snowdon are all up on the summit in one mad stampede?
"Diesel departures leave Llanberis Station daily (weather conditions permitting) from the 14th April until the end of October every 30 minutes from 9am, subject to passenger demand.
Steam departures run from the 3rd June until the 11th September three times a day from 10:30am (weather conditions permitting)."
I don't suppose it will convince you -- because, from your roosting spot in Aberdeenshire, you clearly know more about North Wales than the actual residents, or the people running tourist attractions like Snowdon Mountain Railway.
And he has not addressed the tourist tax which is an idiotic tax1 -
I was surprised to learn recently that the drinking age in a lot of US states was indeed 18 in the 1970s and early 1980s.another_richard said:
If a US politician wanted to be radical they could suggest increasing the age limit to buy a gun to 21 and reducing the age limit to buy alcohol to 18.rcs1000 said:Some humor:
1 -
The point is that out of season tourism is greatly reduced and the time North Wales reawakens to tourists is from Easter to OctoberFarooq said:
Snowdon is a lot more than just the railway, and it's foolish to pretend the railway is the only thing people go for. I've been three times, and I still haven't been on the steam train.YBarddCwsc said:
Try going on the Snowdon Mountain Railway site:Farooq said:
So is Snowdonia shut past September?YBarddCwsc said:
I actually live in a formally very prosperous town in North Wales.Farooq said:
Except occupancy rates are already above the thresholds that will be affected by this!YBarddCwsc said:
North Wales is depopulating.Farooq said:
Exactly right.dixiedean said:
They don't bring in any income if they are empty.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Yes but they bring in the income that no doubt supports many of their jobsdixiedean said:
Tim Farron is running for re-election on the very question of holiday lets.Big_G_NorthWales said:
You are missing the point that all these businesses you quote are about to be hit with a tourist tax on top of thisFarooq said:
No, sorry, I don't believe you me.Big_G_NorthWales said:
This combined with the tourist tax will hit the holiday industry and believe you me it features all the time in the local media and Welsh news as various businesses forecast a fall in visitor numbers and a loss of holiday accommodationFarooq said:
It's not really destroying it, though, is it?Big_G_NorthWales said:
Destroying the holiday industry losing thousands of jobs in businesses across North Wales is madness and could only be dreamt up by a Corbynista who just does not understand the local economy and simply does not careFarooq said:
Maybe I just care about affordable housing more. Your empty-house policy leaves me as cold as a homeless person.Big_G_NorthWales said:
You clearly do not understand just how toxic this is for Welsh labour here in the heart of the North Wales holiday industry which is about to have a tourist tax put on them from Drakeford as wellFarooq said:
Sorry, this looks like great news. Why should properties that are empty for 294 days a year get a tax break?Big_G_NorthWales said:Drakeford's destroying North Wales holiday industry from Cardiff
Tourism leaders in Wales have reacted with horror to confirmation of new occupancy rules for second homes and holiday lets. From April 1, 2023, the Welsh Government will insist that self-catering properties are let for at least 182 days each year in a move critics say will “decimate” the Welsh tourism industry.
Holiday lettings firm Finest Retreats, which promotes 29 holiday cottages in Wales, warned the challenging occupancy target will hit rural economies the hardest by driving up prices and making the country a “less attractive place to visit”. Tom Giffard, Welsh Conservative shadow tourism minister said it was a “devastating blow”, adding: “These new letting requirements will frankly be impossible for many self-caterers to meet.”
The Wales Tourism Alliance (WTA), which represents 6,000 tourism operators in Wales, believes 84% of the country's holiday lets could now be forced to close. WTA chair Suzy Davies said genuine holiday businesses will be caught up in a policy designed to clamp down on second homes. “Like dolphins accidentally caught in fishing nets, these businesses will die,” she cautioned.
On Tuesday, finance minister Rebecca Evans issued a written statement confirming Cardiff was pushing ahead with its plans despite opposition from the tourism sector. As with the Welsh Government’s new council tax policies, the approach is designed to tackle the housing crisis in Welsh-speaking communities in holiday hotspots.
The minister acknowledged that the stronger criteria “may be challenging for some operators to meet”. But she said: “The purpose of the change is to help ensure property owners are making a fair contribution to local communities, for example by increasing their contribution to the local economy through greater letting activity, or by paying council tax on their properties.”
To continue paying business rates, holiday rentals must be let for 182 days from April 1, 2023. Currently, the threshold is just 70 days. If holidays fail to meet the threshold, they pay council tax instead - and from April 2023 local counties will have the power to charge a council tax premium of up to 300%, effectively quadrupling bills.
Let people live there instead of keeping them empty for occasional holidaymakers. Good work Welsh Labour.
These figures show that in the last three years before Covid, self-catering occupancy stood at 58%, 55% and 57%. So how many properties will really be caught up in that anyway?
https://gov.wales/sites/default/files/statistics-and-research/2021-01/wales-accommodation-occupancy-survey-2019_0.pdf
And scroll on a page, you'll see that North Wales's figures are actually the strongest in Wales, averaging at 64%.
Even if a number of providers decide to drop out of the market, all that will do is increase the occupancy in competitors.
No, sorry, it seems you've been taken in by a scare story. The numbers don't fit at all with the apocalyptic predictions. Welsh Labour derangement syndrome, as Leon would probably call it.
Apart from anything you're pretending the tourist industry is solely based around the kind of self-catering accommodation being referred to. Hotels, camping & caravans are a big part of the tourist industry, and non self-catering accommodation drives people to restaurants instead of supermarkets for their evening meal.
No, the more I think about this the more I think this is a good move. Prune out the holiday lets that are underoccupied and they become either better-run lets, or housing for actual people.
If this had been proposed for Devon and Cornwall or the Lake district you would have had a torrent of anger from the holiday industry
And by the way I do not lie
They aren't greatly popular in the Lakes with the locals who tend to rather priorities having somewhere to live.
There is a balance to be struck but applying a tourist tax and reducing holiday accommodation is not one of them
And reducing holiday accommodation is smack bang what Farron thinks will keep him his seat.
He probably knows better than me what the locals think.
https://inews.co.uk/news/housing-crisis-is-spoiling-the-beauty-of-the-lakes-we-need-to-regulate-holiday-lets-and-second-homes-1648417
Another way in which the article is silly is that this could encourage prices DOWN. Think about it. You can offer discounts on midweek off-season stays if the guest is staying the weekend. That might encourage some people to stay an extra day or two. That brings in more money, it doesn't increase the costs associated with booking, checking in and out, or other flat rates. The local economy gets a boost and the guests get more holiday without it breaking the bank. Everyone's a winner, except people who prefer to moan at the Welsh government for partisan reasons.
The growth of holiday accommodation/second homes is caused by economic policy.
If there are no jobs, then there is rural depopulation. The consequent growth in holiday accommodation is caused by the depopulation -- not the other way round. There are empty houses that can be bought cheaply and turned into holiday lets. If they were not holiday lets, they'd fall into disrepair.
There are plenty of falling down, sad, derelict houses in almost all areas of North Wales. People used to live in those houses. They don't now because of depopulation.
As for your ideas in holiday lets in Wales in the winter -- they are bonkers.
Most tourist attractions in North Wales are shut in low season. Most restaurants are shut then (or have very limited hours).
No one is going to go and spend a few extra days in the middle of winter at Talsarnau, when there is nothing to do, nothing is open and the weather is wet, just because of Drakeford's idiotic policy.
I don't think Drakeford's plan makes much sense, apart from in some of the coastal resorts where second homes are a real problem (e.g. Aberdyfi, Tenby, Abersoch, Gwyr). In the rest of the country @Big_G_NorthWales is right -- they will destroy businesses and value.
This isn't a policy that will affect the average let. It's the ones that are taking up space and not generating income. An empty guest house doesn't do anything for the local economy.
Since we're talking about empty properties, it seems to be more of a South Wales problem:
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/homes-property/part-wales-highest-number-empty-21360295
As for "tourist attractions" being shut in the winter, that really depends. Museums and galleries are often open outside high season. Natural spaces like Snowdonia, Holy Island, Alyn Waters are open all year round.
There are many houses that are just empty. I can go to my window and look out and count them. They are not second homes, they are just properties that are not let and no-one wants to live in.
I actually live in North Wales in the winter. I know the restaurants are usually shut completely in Jan & Feb, and they have restricted opening hours Oct-Mar
Museum and galleries in North Wales are almost always shut in the low season, apart from a few large attractions like Caernarfon Castle. Many CADW properties are shut in the winter.
Jesus .. you are behaving like HYUFD.
You live in Aberdeenshire, you are quoting guff from Welsh Government websites .. and everyone who knows North Wales is telling you that you are talking garbage.
If you told me something about Aberdeenshire, I'd believe you .. rather than going to google and quoting a government statistic back at you.
Can you get into Caernarfon Castle in December?
Hint: https://cadw.gov.wales/visit/places-to-visit/caernarfon-castle
Little Llandudno Museum is open 47 weeks a year.
You're making out like North Wales tourism is a rare orchid that flowers for nine minutes per year. I guess the 600,000 annual visitors to Snowdon are all up on the summit in one mad stampede?
"Diesel departures leave Llanberis Station daily (weather conditions permitting) from the 14th April until the end of October every 30 minutes from 9am, subject to passenger demand.
Steam departures run from the 3rd June until the 11th September three times a day from 10:30am (weather conditions permitting)."
I don't suppose it will convince you -- because, from your roosting spot in Aberdeenshire, you clearly know more about North Wales than the actual residents, or the people running tourist attractions like Snowdon Mountain Railway.
Do things wind down in the off season? Yes, I never said they didn't. Are there still people interested in visiting North Wales out of season? Definitely. I know because one of my trips was in the dead of winter. I wasn't alone!0 -
... the Aberdeenshire @HYUFD never gives up.Farooq said:
Snowdon is a lot more than just the railway, and it's foolish to pretend the railway is the only thing people go for. I've been three times, and I still haven't been on the steam train.YBarddCwsc said:
Try going on the Snowdon Mountain Railway site:Farooq said:
So is Snowdonia shut past September?YBarddCwsc said:
I actually live in a formally very prosperous town in North Wales.Farooq said:
Except occupancy rates are already above the thresholds that will be affected by this!YBarddCwsc said:
North Wales is depopulating.Farooq said:
Exactly right.dixiedean said:
They don't bring in any income if they are empty.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Yes but they bring in the income that no doubt supports many of their jobsdixiedean said:
Tim Farron is running for re-election on the very question of holiday lets.Big_G_NorthWales said:
You are missing the point that all these businesses you quote are about to be hit with a tourist tax on top of thisFarooq said:
No, sorry, I don't believe you me.Big_G_NorthWales said:
This combined with the tourist tax will hit the holiday industry and believe you me it features all the time in the local media and Welsh news as various businesses forecast a fall in visitor numbers and a loss of holiday accommodationFarooq said:
It's not really destroying it, though, is it?Big_G_NorthWales said:
Destroying the holiday industry losing thousands of jobs in businesses across North Wales is madness and could only be dreamt up by a Corbynista who just does not understand the local economy and simply does not careFarooq said:
Maybe I just care about affordable housing more. Your empty-house policy leaves me as cold as a homeless person.Big_G_NorthWales said:
You clearly do not understand just how toxic this is for Welsh labour here in the heart of the North Wales holiday industry which is about to have a tourist tax put on them from Drakeford as wellFarooq said:
Sorry, this looks like great news. Why should properties that are empty for 294 days a year get a tax break?Big_G_NorthWales said:Drakeford's destroying North Wales holiday industry from Cardiff
Tourism leaders in Wales have reacted with horror to confirmation of new occupancy rules for second homes and holiday lets. From April 1, 2023, the Welsh Government will insist that self-catering properties are let for at least 182 days each year in a move critics say will “decimate” the Welsh tourism industry.
Holiday lettings firm Finest Retreats, which promotes 29 holiday cottages in Wales, warned the challenging occupancy target will hit rural economies the hardest by driving up prices and making the country a “less attractive place to visit”. Tom Giffard, Welsh Conservative shadow tourism minister said it was a “devastating blow”, adding: “These new letting requirements will frankly be impossible for many self-caterers to meet.”
The Wales Tourism Alliance (WTA), which represents 6,000 tourism operators in Wales, believes 84% of the country's holiday lets could now be forced to close. WTA chair Suzy Davies said genuine holiday businesses will be caught up in a policy designed to clamp down on second homes. “Like dolphins accidentally caught in fishing nets, these businesses will die,” she cautioned.
On Tuesday, finance minister Rebecca Evans issued a written statement confirming Cardiff was pushing ahead with its plans despite opposition from the tourism sector. As with the Welsh Government’s new council tax policies, the approach is designed to tackle the housing crisis in Welsh-speaking communities in holiday hotspots.
The minister acknowledged that the stronger criteria “may be challenging for some operators to meet”. But she said: “The purpose of the change is to help ensure property owners are making a fair contribution to local communities, for example by increasing their contribution to the local economy through greater letting activity, or by paying council tax on their properties.”
To continue paying business rates, holiday rentals must be let for 182 days from April 1, 2023. Currently, the threshold is just 70 days. If holidays fail to meet the threshold, they pay council tax instead - and from April 2023 local counties will have the power to charge a council tax premium of up to 300%, effectively quadrupling bills.
Let people live there instead of keeping them empty for occasional holidaymakers. Good work Welsh Labour.
These figures show that in the last three years before Covid, self-catering occupancy stood at 58%, 55% and 57%. So how many properties will really be caught up in that anyway?
https://gov.wales/sites/default/files/statistics-and-research/2021-01/wales-accommodation-occupancy-survey-2019_0.pdf
And scroll on a page, you'll see that North Wales's figures are actually the strongest in Wales, averaging at 64%.
Even if a number of providers decide to drop out of the market, all that will do is increase the occupancy in competitors.
No, sorry, it seems you've been taken in by a scare story. The numbers don't fit at all with the apocalyptic predictions. Welsh Labour derangement syndrome, as Leon would probably call it.
Apart from anything you're pretending the tourist industry is solely based around the kind of self-catering accommodation being referred to. Hotels, camping & caravans are a big part of the tourist industry, and non self-catering accommodation drives people to restaurants instead of supermarkets for their evening meal.
No, the more I think about this the more I think this is a good move. Prune out the holiday lets that are underoccupied and they become either better-run lets, or housing for actual people.
If this had been proposed for Devon and Cornwall or the Lake district you would have had a torrent of anger from the holiday industry
And by the way I do not lie
They aren't greatly popular in the Lakes with the locals who tend to rather priorities having somewhere to live.
There is a balance to be struck but applying a tourist tax and reducing holiday accommodation is not one of them
And reducing holiday accommodation is smack bang what Farron thinks will keep him his seat.
He probably knows better than me what the locals think.
https://inews.co.uk/news/housing-crisis-is-spoiling-the-beauty-of-the-lakes-we-need-to-regulate-holiday-lets-and-second-homes-1648417
Another way in which the article is silly is that this could encourage prices DOWN. Think about it. You can offer discounts on midweek off-season stays if the guest is staying the weekend. That might encourage some people to stay an extra day or two. That brings in more money, it doesn't increase the costs associated with booking, checking in and out, or other flat rates. The local economy gets a boost and the guests get more holiday without it breaking the bank. Everyone's a winner, except people who prefer to moan at the Welsh government for partisan reasons.
The growth of holiday accommodation/second homes is caused by economic policy.
If there are no jobs, then there is rural depopulation. The consequent growth in holiday accommodation is caused by the depopulation -- not the other way round. There are empty houses that can be bought cheaply and turned into holiday lets. If they were not holiday lets, they'd fall into disrepair.
There are plenty of falling down, sad, derelict houses in almost all areas of North Wales. People used to live in those houses. They don't now because of depopulation.
As for your ideas in holiday lets in Wales in the winter -- they are bonkers.
Most tourist attractions in North Wales are shut in low season. Most restaurants are shut then (or have very limited hours).
No one is going to go and spend a few extra days in the middle of winter at Talsarnau, when there is nothing to do, nothing is open and the weather is wet, just because of Drakeford's idiotic policy.
I don't think Drakeford's plan makes much sense, apart from in some of the coastal resorts where second homes are a real problem (e.g. Aberdyfi, Tenby, Abersoch, Gwyr). In the rest of the country @Big_G_NorthWales is right -- they will destroy businesses and value.
This isn't a policy that will affect the average let. It's the ones that are taking up space and not generating income. An empty guest house doesn't do anything for the local economy.
Since we're talking about empty properties, it seems to be more of a South Wales problem:
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/homes-property/part-wales-highest-number-empty-21360295
As for "tourist attractions" being shut in the winter, that really depends. Museums and galleries are often open outside high season. Natural spaces like Snowdonia, Holy Island, Alyn Waters are open all year round.
There are many houses that are just empty. I can go to my window and look out and count them. They are not second homes, they are just properties that are not let and no-one wants to live in.
I actually live in North Wales in the winter. I know the restaurants are usually shut completely in Jan & Feb, and they have restricted opening hours Oct-Mar
Museum and galleries in North Wales are almost always shut in the low season, apart from a few large attractions like Caernarfon Castle. Many CADW properties are shut in the winter.
Jesus .. you are behaving like HYUFD.
You live in Aberdeenshire, you are quoting guff from Welsh Government websites .. and everyone who knows North Wales is telling you that you are talking garbage.
If you told me something about Aberdeenshire, I'd believe you .. rather than going to google and quoting a government statistic back at you.
Can you get into Caernarfon Castle in December?
Hint: https://cadw.gov.wales/visit/places-to-visit/caernarfon-castle
Little Llandudno Museum is open 47 weeks a year.
You're making out like North Wales tourism is a rare orchid that flowers for nine minutes per year. I guess the 600,000 annual visitors to Snowdon are all up on the summit in one mad stampede?
"Diesel departures leave Llanberis Station daily (weather conditions permitting) from the 14th April until the end of October every 30 minutes from 9am, subject to passenger demand.
Steam departures run from the 3rd June until the 11th September three times a day from 10:30am (weather conditions permitting)."
I don't suppose it will convince you -- because, from your roosting spot in Aberdeenshire, you clearly know more about North Wales than the actual residents, or the people running tourist attractions like Snowdon Mountain Railway.
Do things wind down in the off season? Yes, I never said they didn't. Are there still people interested in visiting North Wales out of season? Definitely. I know because one of my trips was in the dead of winter. I wasn't alone!
1 -
Of course you do not care, it is not being applied to the Scottish tourist industryFarooq said:
G, I don't give a fk about the tourist tax either way. I haven't commented on it, I haven't thought about it. I'm not going to form an opinion on it just because you want me to. It might be a terrible idea, it might be a wonderful idea. Probably it's somewhere in between, idk. I have limited myself to talking about the ending of the tax break on "empty" holiday homes and a rather strange proxy argument over whether North Wales turns into North Korea as soon as the clocks go back. If you want to find someone who cares about tourist tax either way, I'm sure you'll find someone, but it's not me.Big_G_NorthWales said:
It is pointless arguing with someone who has the @HYUFD attitude that he is right no matter others who are in touch with the issues dailyYBarddCwsc said:
Try going on the Snowdon Mountain Railway site:Farooq said:
So is Snowdonia shut past September?YBarddCwsc said:
I actually live in a formally very prosperous town in North Wales.Farooq said:
Except occupancy rates are already above the thresholds that will be affected by this!YBarddCwsc said:
North Wales is depopulating.Farooq said:
Exactly right.dixiedean said:
They don't bring in any income if they are empty.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Yes but they bring in the income that no doubt supports many of their jobsdixiedean said:
Tim Farron is running for re-election on the very question of holiday lets.Big_G_NorthWales said:
You are missing the point that all these businesses you quote are about to be hit with a tourist tax on top of thisFarooq said:
No, sorry, I don't believe you me.Big_G_NorthWales said:
This combined with the tourist tax will hit the holiday industry and believe you me it features all the time in the local media and Welsh news as various businesses forecast a fall in visitor numbers and a loss of holiday accommodationFarooq said:
It's not really destroying it, though, is it?Big_G_NorthWales said:
Destroying the holiday industry losing thousands of jobs in businesses across North Wales is madness and could only be dreamt up by a Corbynista who just does not understand the local economy and simply does not careFarooq said:
Maybe I just care about affordable housing more. Your empty-house policy leaves me as cold as a homeless person.Big_G_NorthWales said:
You clearly do not understand just how toxic this is for Welsh labour here in the heart of the North Wales holiday industry which is about to have a tourist tax put on them from Drakeford as wellFarooq said:
Sorry, this looks like great news. Why should properties that are empty for 294 days a year get a tax break?Big_G_NorthWales said:Drakeford's destroying North Wales holiday industry from Cardiff
Tourism leaders in Wales have reacted with horror to confirmation of new occupancy rules for second homes and holiday lets. From April 1, 2023, the Welsh Government will insist that self-catering properties are let for at least 182 days each year in a move critics say will “decimate” the Welsh tourism industry.
Holiday lettings firm Finest Retreats, which promotes 29 holiday cottages in Wales, warned the challenging occupancy target will hit rural economies the hardest by driving up prices and making the country a “less attractive place to visit”. Tom Giffard, Welsh Conservative shadow tourism minister said it was a “devastating blow”, adding: “These new letting requirements will frankly be impossible for many self-caterers to meet.”
The Wales Tourism Alliance (WTA), which represents 6,000 tourism operators in Wales, believes 84% of the country's holiday lets could now be forced to close. WTA chair Suzy Davies said genuine holiday businesses will be caught up in a policy designed to clamp down on second homes. “Like dolphins accidentally caught in fishing nets, these businesses will die,” she cautioned.
On Tuesday, finance minister Rebecca Evans issued a written statement confirming Cardiff was pushing ahead with its plans despite opposition from the tourism sector. As with the Welsh Government’s new council tax policies, the approach is designed to tackle the housing crisis in Welsh-speaking communities in holiday hotspots.
The minister acknowledged that the stronger criteria “may be challenging for some operators to meet”. But she said: “The purpose of the change is to help ensure property owners are making a fair contribution to local communities, for example by increasing their contribution to the local economy through greater letting activity, or by paying council tax on their properties.”
To continue paying business rates, holiday rentals must be let for 182 days from April 1, 2023. Currently, the threshold is just 70 days. If holidays fail to meet the threshold, they pay council tax instead - and from April 2023 local counties will have the power to charge a council tax premium of up to 300%, effectively quadrupling bills.
Let people live there instead of keeping them empty for occasional holidaymakers. Good work Welsh Labour.
These figures show that in the last three years before Covid, self-catering occupancy stood at 58%, 55% and 57%. So how many properties will really be caught up in that anyway?
https://gov.wales/sites/default/files/statistics-and-research/2021-01/wales-accommodation-occupancy-survey-2019_0.pdf
And scroll on a page, you'll see that North Wales's figures are actually the strongest in Wales, averaging at 64%.
Even if a number of providers decide to drop out of the market, all that will do is increase the occupancy in competitors.
No, sorry, it seems you've been taken in by a scare story. The numbers don't fit at all with the apocalyptic predictions. Welsh Labour derangement syndrome, as Leon would probably call it.
Apart from anything you're pretending the tourist industry is solely based around the kind of self-catering accommodation being referred to. Hotels, camping & caravans are a big part of the tourist industry, and non self-catering accommodation drives people to restaurants instead of supermarkets for their evening meal.
No, the more I think about this the more I think this is a good move. Prune out the holiday lets that are underoccupied and they become either better-run lets, or housing for actual people.
If this had been proposed for Devon and Cornwall or the Lake district you would have had a torrent of anger from the holiday industry
And by the way I do not lie
They aren't greatly popular in the Lakes with the locals who tend to rather priorities having somewhere to live.
There is a balance to be struck but applying a tourist tax and reducing holiday accommodation is not one of them
And reducing holiday accommodation is smack bang what Farron thinks will keep him his seat.
He probably knows better than me what the locals think.
https://inews.co.uk/news/housing-crisis-is-spoiling-the-beauty-of-the-lakes-we-need-to-regulate-holiday-lets-and-second-homes-1648417
Another way in which the article is silly is that this could encourage prices DOWN. Think about it. You can offer discounts on midweek off-season stays if the guest is staying the weekend. That might encourage some people to stay an extra day or two. That brings in more money, it doesn't increase the costs associated with booking, checking in and out, or other flat rates. The local economy gets a boost and the guests get more holiday without it breaking the bank. Everyone's a winner, except people who prefer to moan at the Welsh government for partisan reasons.
The growth of holiday accommodation/second homes is caused by economic policy.
If there are no jobs, then there is rural depopulation. The consequent growth in holiday accommodation is caused by the depopulation -- not the other way round. There are empty houses that can be bought cheaply and turned into holiday lets. If they were not holiday lets, they'd fall into disrepair.
There are plenty of falling down, sad, derelict houses in almost all areas of North Wales. People used to live in those houses. They don't now because of depopulation.
As for your ideas in holiday lets in Wales in the winter -- they are bonkers.
Most tourist attractions in North Wales are shut in low season. Most restaurants are shut then (or have very limited hours).
No one is going to go and spend a few extra days in the middle of winter at Talsarnau, when there is nothing to do, nothing is open and the weather is wet, just because of Drakeford's idiotic policy.
I don't think Drakeford's plan makes much sense, apart from in some of the coastal resorts where second homes are a real problem (e.g. Aberdyfi, Tenby, Abersoch, Gwyr). In the rest of the country @Big_G_NorthWales is right -- they will destroy businesses and value.
This isn't a policy that will affect the average let. It's the ones that are taking up space and not generating income. An empty guest house doesn't do anything for the local economy.
Since we're talking about empty properties, it seems to be more of a South Wales problem:
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/homes-property/part-wales-highest-number-empty-21360295
As for "tourist attractions" being shut in the winter, that really depends. Museums and galleries are often open outside high season. Natural spaces like Snowdonia, Holy Island, Alyn Waters are open all year round.
There are many houses that are just empty. I can go to my window and look out and count them. They are not second homes, they are just properties that are not let and no-one wants to live in.
I actually live in North Wales in the winter. I know the restaurants are usually shut completely in Jan & Feb, and they have restricted opening hours Oct-Mar
Museum and galleries in North Wales are almost always shut in the low season, apart from a few large attractions like Caernarfon Castle. Many CADW properties are shut in the winter.
Jesus .. you are behaving like HYUFD.
You live in Aberdeenshire, you are quoting guff from Welsh Government websites .. and everyone who knows North Wales is telling you that you are talking garbage.
If you told me something about Aberdeenshire, I'd believe you .. rather than going to google and quoting a government statistic back at you.
Can you get into Caernarfon Castle in December?
Hint: https://cadw.gov.wales/visit/places-to-visit/caernarfon-castle
Little Llandudno Museum is open 47 weeks a year.
You're making out like North Wales tourism is a rare orchid that flowers for nine minutes per year. I guess the 600,000 annual visitors to Snowdon are all up on the summit in one mad stampede?
"Diesel departures leave Llanberis Station daily (weather conditions permitting) from the 14th April until the end of October every 30 minutes from 9am, subject to passenger demand.
Steam departures run from the 3rd June until the 11th September three times a day from 10:30am (weather conditions permitting)."
I don't suppose it will convince you -- because, from your roosting spot in Aberdeenshire, you clearly know more about North Wales than the actual residents, or the people running tourist attractions like Snowdon Mountain Railway.
And he has not addressed the tourist tax which is an idiotic tax
You simply are unable to accept the changes including the tourist tax are a threat to the one industry North Wales has and that is tourism when Welsh posters are telling you you are wrong
So be it0 -
Of interest is thisNorthofStoke said:
I think it more probable that something will crack, probably the Russian war machine followed by the Russian state.NickPalmer said:
I agree. My impression (but what do I know?) is that Russia will get to the edge of Donbas in a month or two, but the flow of Western arms will then encourage the Ukrainians to counter-attack. I suspect we'll then see a war of attirition, as HYUFD says, and eventually there will be an uneasy cease-fire.HYUFD said:
Most likely it will end up a prolonged war of attrition in the Donbas. It won't be WW3 unless Russia invades a NATO stateLeon said:More Guardian live-blog
“The Kremlin is considering a second assault on Kyiv despite failing to capture the Ukrainian capital at the outset of the war, according to the independent news website, Meduza.
Sources close to the Kremlin and inside the Putin administration said confidence has spread to the leadership of United Russia, the country’s ruling political party, that a full-scale victory in Ukraine is possible before the end of the year.
One source said:
We’ll grind them [the Ukrainians] down in the end. The whole thing will probably be over by the fall.
Russia’s leadership has “minimum” and “maximum” thresholds for declaring a successful and completed “special military operation” in Ukraine, sources said.
The bare minimum needed to declare victory is the complete capture of the Donbas region, according to sources, while the maximum goal would be the capture of Kyiv.
The editor of the English-language edition of Meduza, Kevin Rothrock, said the report suggests that Ukraine is losing the “information war” for the first time since the invasion.
Many ways to interpret this: (1) the mood inside the Kremlin shifts faster than a temperamental teen’s, (2) Kyiv’s alarm-signaling is largely about expediting/sustaining Western aid, (3) Western fatigue is real (the energy crisis & U.S. midterms mean a whole new ballgame soon)”
I reckon this means WW3
WW3? Nah.
https://github.com/leedrake5/Russia-Ukraine
Essentially this chap is scraping the Oryx data and automatically creating charts from it. Somewhat as people used to do with the COVID data....
Anyway - Russia is still losing equipment at a very considerable rate. And if they can't get tank manufacturing up and running, then they only have what's in storage.....0 -
Why don't just f*ck off and join the Liberal Democrats.MPartridge said:Is it just me or is the PB comment sections getting alot more heated nowadays....
Lisbon is getting increasingly expensive, as they are attracting a lot of technology businesses. A friend of mine's tech company is moving their main development hub to Lisbon. (The fact that he will only pay 20% income tax for the next decade probably is a factor too!)carnforth said:
Cheaper than Lisbon?onepureradge said:
Still possibly the cheapest capital in Western Europe for the tourist, though.rcs1000 said:
Berlin is gentrifying: have you seen what rents are doing?Heathener said:p.s. I absolutely love Berlin.
Unlike some European cities gentrification has passed it by. I love the edginess.
Hire a bike on a weekend and cycle around the city: wonderful.0 -
For a socialist government in Portugal, they do seem to be very keen on giving very attractive deals for rich foreigners looking to get a good deal on taxes and opportunities to get a passport.rcs1000 said:
Why don't just f*ck off and join the Liberal Democrats.MPartridge said:Is it just me or is the PB comment sections getting alot more heated nowadays....
Lisbon is getting increasingly expensive, as they are attracting a lot of technology businesses. A friend of mine's tech company is moving their main development hub to Lisbon. (The fact that he will only pay 20% income tax for the next decade probably is a factor too!)carnforth said:
Cheaper than Lisbon?onepureradge said:
Still possibly the cheapest capital in Western Europe for the tourist, though.rcs1000 said:
Berlin is gentrifying: have you seen what rents are doing?Heathener said:p.s. I absolutely love Berlin.
Unlike some European cities gentrification has passed it by. I love the edginess.
Hire a bike on a weekend and cycle around the city: wonderful.0 -
.
That's right: the Reagan government made Federal Highway funds only available to States which had a drinking age of 21 (or higher).Andy_JS said:
I was surprised to learn recently that the drinking age in a lot of US states was indeed 18 in the 1970s and early 1980s.another_richard said:
If a US politician wanted to be radical they could suggest increasing the age limit to buy a gun to 21 and reducing the age limit to buy alcohol to 18.rcs1000 said:Some humor:
0 -
BBC News - Japan opens up to foreign tourists after two years
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-61612599
That is still incredibly strict rules. I was hoping to visit in the near future, and have no interest in doing some sort of tour group.0 -
Interestingly, they have ruinously high rates of capital gains tax, but low income taxes. So, you wouldn't want to be there and trade a portfolio of shares... but you running (or moving) your business there is very attractive.FrancisUrquhart said:
For a socialist government in Portugal, they do seem to be very keen on giving very attractive deals for rich foreigners looking to get a good deal on taxes and opportunities to get a passport.rcs1000 said:
Why don't just f*ck off and join the Liberal Democrats.MPartridge said:Is it just me or is the PB comment sections getting alot more heated nowadays....
Lisbon is getting increasingly expensive, as they are attracting a lot of technology businesses. A friend of mine's tech company is moving their main development hub to Lisbon. (The fact that he will only pay 20% income tax for the next decade probably is a factor too!)carnforth said:
Cheaper than Lisbon?onepureradge said:
Still possibly the cheapest capital in Western Europe for the tourist, though.rcs1000 said:
Berlin is gentrifying: have you seen what rents are doing?Heathener said:p.s. I absolutely love Berlin.
Unlike some European cities gentrification has passed it by. I love the edginess.
Hire a bike on a weekend and cycle around the city: wonderful.0 -
But no taxes on crypto capital gains...rcs1000 said:
Interestingly, they have ruinously high rates of capital gains tax, but low income taxes. So, you wouldn't want to be there and trade a portfolio of shares... but you running (or moving) your business there is very attractive.FrancisUrquhart said:
For a socialist government in Portugal, they do seem to be very keen on giving very attractive deals for rich foreigners looking to get a good deal on taxes and opportunities to get a passport.rcs1000 said:
Why don't just f*ck off and join the Liberal Democrats.MPartridge said:Is it just me or is the PB comment sections getting alot more heated nowadays....
Lisbon is getting increasingly expensive, as they are attracting a lot of technology businesses. A friend of mine's tech company is moving their main development hub to Lisbon. (The fact that he will only pay 20% income tax for the next decade probably is a factor too!)carnforth said:
Cheaper than Lisbon?onepureradge said:
Still possibly the cheapest capital in Western Europe for the tourist, though.rcs1000 said:
Berlin is gentrifying: have you seen what rents are doing?Heathener said:p.s. I absolutely love Berlin.
Unlike some European cities gentrification has passed it by. I love the edginess.
Hire a bike on a weekend and cycle around the city: wonderful.0 -
Andy_JS said: "I was surprised to learn recently that the drinking age in a lot of US states was indeed 18 in the 1970s and early 1980s."
In at least one state (Illinois), for a time it was 18 for women, and 21 for men. (Don't recall any more details, but it temporarily made some young women quite popular.)1 -
I can confirm that yes, Labour will ditch the pledge to tax more on £80,000 a year or more earnings.
Labour's big plan is very similar to the plan of the 1997 Government, to be very uncontroversial.
I also understand, in the coming days Keir Starmer's investigation will be concluding.0 -
Do we call them a 'shooter' because 'gunman' is sexist? It is always a man or men.0
-
At one point i was seriously considering relocating there, but was somewhat concerned what might happen with tax situation.rcs1000 said:
Interestingly, they have ruinously high rates of capital gains tax, but low income taxes. So, you wouldn't want to be there and trade a portfolio of shares... but you running (or moving) your business there is very attractive.FrancisUrquhart said:
For a socialist government in Portugal, they do seem to be very keen on giving very attractive deals for rich foreigners looking to get a good deal on taxes and opportunities to get a passport.rcs1000 said:
Why don't just f*ck off and join the Liberal Democrats.MPartridge said:Is it just me or is the PB comment sections getting alot more heated nowadays....
Lisbon is getting increasingly expensive, as they are attracting a lot of technology businesses. A friend of mine's tech company is moving their main development hub to Lisbon. (The fact that he will only pay 20% income tax for the next decade probably is a factor too!)carnforth said:
Cheaper than Lisbon?onepureradge said:
Still possibly the cheapest capital in Western Europe for the tourist, though.rcs1000 said:
Berlin is gentrifying: have you seen what rents are doing?Heathener said:p.s. I absolutely love Berlin.
Unlike some European cities gentrification has passed it by. I love the edginess.
Hire a bike on a weekend and cycle around the city: wonderful.0 -
Unlikely to be a problem for many right now.FrancisUrquhart said:
But no taxes on crypto capital gains...rcs1000 said:
Interestingly, they have ruinously high rates of capital gains tax, but low income taxes. So, you wouldn't want to be there and trade a portfolio of shares... but you running (or moving) your business there is very attractive.FrancisUrquhart said:
For a socialist government in Portugal, they do seem to be very keen on giving very attractive deals for rich foreigners looking to get a good deal on taxes and opportunities to get a passport.rcs1000 said:
Why don't just f*ck off and join the Liberal Democrats.MPartridge said:Is it just me or is the PB comment sections getting alot more heated nowadays....
Lisbon is getting increasingly expensive, as they are attracting a lot of technology businesses. A friend of mine's tech company is moving their main development hub to Lisbon. (The fact that he will only pay 20% income tax for the next decade probably is a factor too!)carnforth said:
Cheaper than Lisbon?onepureradge said:
Still possibly the cheapest capital in Western Europe for the tourist, though.rcs1000 said:
Berlin is gentrifying: have you seen what rents are doing?Heathener said:p.s. I absolutely love Berlin.
Unlike some European cities gentrification has passed it by. I love the edginess.
Hire a bike on a weekend and cycle around the city: wonderful.0 -
YouGov MRP time!
Of the 88 key battleground seats which the Conservatives a) won from Labour in 2019 or b) hold with a majority of ≤15pts over Labour, our MRP shows the Tories holding on to just *three*
These losses include Boris Johnson's own seat
This is a disaster.0 -
LOL...there are still a lot of people i know who got in very early and would be due a massive CGT bill.rcs1000 said:
Unlikely to be a problem for many right now.FrancisUrquhart said:
But no taxes on crypto capital gains...rcs1000 said:
Interestingly, they have ruinously high rates of capital gains tax, but low income taxes. So, you wouldn't want to be there and trade a portfolio of shares... but you running (or moving) your business there is very attractive.FrancisUrquhart said:
For a socialist government in Portugal, they do seem to be very keen on giving very attractive deals for rich foreigners looking to get a good deal on taxes and opportunities to get a passport.rcs1000 said:
Why don't just f*ck off and join the Liberal Democrats.MPartridge said:Is it just me or is the PB comment sections getting alot more heated nowadays....
Lisbon is getting increasingly expensive, as they are attracting a lot of technology businesses. A friend of mine's tech company is moving their main development hub to Lisbon. (The fact that he will only pay 20% income tax for the next decade probably is a factor too!)carnforth said:
Cheaper than Lisbon?onepureradge said:
Still possibly the cheapest capital in Western Europe for the tourist, though.rcs1000 said:
Berlin is gentrifying: have you seen what rents are doing?Heathener said:p.s. I absolutely love Berlin.
Unlike some European cities gentrification has passed it by. I love the edginess.
Hire a bike on a weekend and cycle around the city: wonderful.0 -
The difference is the economic situation will require tough choices unlike 1997.CorrectHorseBattery said:I can confirm that yes, Labour will ditch the pledge to tax more on £80,000 a year or more earnings.
Labour's big plan is very similar to the plan of the 1997 Government, to be very uncontroversial.
I also understand, in the coming days Keir Starmer's investigation will be concluding.3 -
I can imagine whiling my time away in Cascais or Estoril, but I would feel guilty emigrating and not speaking the language. It’s a lot harder than Spanish, especially listening.FrancisUrquhart said:
At one point i was seriously considering relocating there, but was somewhat concerned what might happen with tax situation.rcs1000 said:
Interestingly, they have ruinously high rates of capital gains tax, but low income taxes. So, you wouldn't want to be there and trade a portfolio of shares... but you running (or moving) your business there is very attractive.FrancisUrquhart said:
For a socialist government in Portugal, they do seem to be very keen on giving very attractive deals for rich foreigners looking to get a good deal on taxes and opportunities to get a passport.rcs1000 said:
Why don't just f*ck off and join the Liberal Democrats.MPartridge said:Is it just me or is the PB comment sections getting alot more heated nowadays....
Lisbon is getting increasingly expensive, as they are attracting a lot of technology businesses. A friend of mine's tech company is moving their main development hub to Lisbon. (The fact that he will only pay 20% income tax for the next decade probably is a factor too!)carnforth said:
Cheaper than Lisbon?onepureradge said:
Still possibly the cheapest capital in Western Europe for the tourist, though.rcs1000 said:
Berlin is gentrifying: have you seen what rents are doing?Heathener said:p.s. I absolutely love Berlin.
Unlike some European cities gentrification has passed it by. I love the edginess.
Hire a bike on a weekend and cycle around the city: wonderful.0 -
Yes, Spanish is quite easy to get some basic level down chat down. Portuguese, I have never got anywhere with it when it comes to conversational level (even with I asked a good friend of mine who is Portuguese to try and give me lessons).carnforth said:
I can imagine whiling my time away in Cascais or Estoril, but I would feel guilty emigrating and not speaking the language. It’s a lot harder than Spanish, especially listening.FrancisUrquhart said:
At one point i was seriously considering relocating there, but was somewhat concerned what might happen with tax situation.rcs1000 said:
Interestingly, they have ruinously high rates of capital gains tax, but low income taxes. So, you wouldn't want to be there and trade a portfolio of shares... but you running (or moving) your business there is very attractive.FrancisUrquhart said:
For a socialist government in Portugal, they do seem to be very keen on giving very attractive deals for rich foreigners looking to get a good deal on taxes and opportunities to get a passport.rcs1000 said:
Why don't just f*ck off and join the Liberal Democrats.MPartridge said:Is it just me or is the PB comment sections getting alot more heated nowadays....
Lisbon is getting increasingly expensive, as they are attracting a lot of technology businesses. A friend of mine's tech company is moving their main development hub to Lisbon. (The fact that he will only pay 20% income tax for the next decade probably is a factor too!)carnforth said:
Cheaper than Lisbon?onepureradge said:
Still possibly the cheapest capital in Western Europe for the tourist, though.rcs1000 said:
Berlin is gentrifying: have you seen what rents are doing?Heathener said:p.s. I absolutely love Berlin.
Unlike some European cities gentrification has passed it by. I love the edginess.
Hire a bike on a weekend and cycle around the city: wonderful.0 -
https://twitter.com/AnushkaAsthana/status/1530253536646381569
Exc: ITV News obtains documents given to some asylum seekers who have been chosen to be possibly deported to Rwanda. Gives just 7 days to make written submission as to why they shouldn’t be sent. Obtained by the brilliant @lili_donlon
This is shocking, it's like they're not human beings. Of course that is what Priti Patel thinks0 -
I don't think Johnson will fight the next election as PM. Tory MPs care about winning elections more than anything else.CorrectHorseBattery said:YouGov MRP time!
Of the 88 key battleground seats which the Conservatives a) won from Labour in 2019 or b) hold with a majority of ≤15pts over Labour, our MRP shows the Tories holding on to just *three*
These losses include Boris Johnson's own seat
This is a disaster.0 -
It's politics not public health, Omicron is everywhere in Japan so there's no point in trying to keep it out at the border.FrancisUrquhart said:BBC News - Japan opens up to foreign tourists after two years
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-61612599
That is still incredibly strict rules. I was hoping to visit in the near future, and have no interest in doing some sort of tour group.
The next elections are July 25th, I expect they'll normalize everything else after that, unless a new, enhanced strain of covid drops in the meantime.0 -
Hence, le vagin in French.Sunil_Prasannan said:
"If a man has a vagina, his vagina is a biologically male vagina"JACK_W said:
Yet another complete tool !!!!!!!CarlottaVance said:
Meet circular logic:FrancisUrquhart said:Stella Creasy: ‘JK Rowling is wrong – a woman can have a penis’
‘Sometimes you have to break cover and be controversial,’ says the MP for Walthamstow and passionate campaigner for women and mothers
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/life/stella-creasy-jk-rowling-wrong-woman-can-have-penis/
PinkNews@PinkNews
"If a woman has a penis, her penis is a biologically female penis," @IndyaMoore said.
https://twitter.com/PinkNews/status/10979376482268405761 -
New thread.0
